RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQPXXHUilU  this is pretty funny and disturbing 
video!

 

This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything…its just  
a job he is going for…how do these people get into such roles…

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/


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NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
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From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:48 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

What I don’t understand is that if you’re in a built up area, why they don’t 
just install Fibre to the Home.

 

Copper might do for the short term, but it is expensive to maintain and has all 
sorts of issues like crosstalk/interference, susceptibility to water etc. Fibre 
does not have those issues and fibre can last 60 years. Fibre can also give a 
consistent speed up to 50 kilometres from the node as opposed to copper that 
degrades significantly after 2 or 3 kilometres. Copper will also max out 
probably around the 200Mbps – 300Mbps mark from a theoretical maximum around 
1Gbps. Other countries are talking about 10Gbps and they have achieved Petabyte 
transmission speeds in the labs.

 

As David rightly pointed out, if you want to go to even higher speeds, they 
will need to replace the fibre with even faster fibre and change the technology 
at the end points, but once it is done properly once, those changes won’t be as 
difficult to achieve.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access more 
available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere getting it 
first because they have few options.  I might complain about being stuck with 
optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I know people in outer 
suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not talking rural.  Sure it means I 
don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future but it is the fair option.

 

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.  Making 
internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more important.  On 
that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really the same thing.  For 
many, you may as well say they can't have it.




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:

But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 

 

We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And all 
they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what chance do 
we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

 

I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by their 
logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually being 
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

This guy..all I rememeber..’if you do know here..blah blah..if you door knock 
here..blah….’

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/


--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by 
reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. 
(*13POrtC*)
---
 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Nathan Chere
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:36 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I was living in Riverstone for a while when it was scheduled to be one of the 
first suburbs in NSW to see the practical benefits of the NBN roll-out after 
the local ALP puppet Michelle Rowland used the NBN as a key differentiator in 
her campaign.  That was 2007.

 

Luckily my TPG ASDL2 connection was serviceable enough (~8-10Mbps download is 
more than enough to be productive) so I wasn’t left hanging anyway, but last 
time I checked what was happening out there they were launching a “Riverstone 
digital hub” at the end of 2012 in Riverstone Library, ie one single site with 
anything remotely approaching the promises of the NBN.

 

That’s all they’ve produced. Not a single site, commercial or residential, 
hooked up. 6 years for a  supposed pioneer site to produce effectively zip. I 
can’t pretend to understand a fraction of the technical or financial complexity 
of an infrastructure rollout on anywhere near that scale, but I can see when 
we’re clearly being taken for a ride.

 

When people would rather vote for a dipshit like this than your own candidate 
you know you’re REALLY doing something wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQPXXHUilU 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:55 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Looking at the rollout, it's scheduled to be available for me by end of year.  
Which is somewhat unfair, being I've already got vdsl2.  

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:51 PM, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775  ) office | +61 419201410 
  mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   
fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM


To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy  
wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

 





 

-- 
Meski


   http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Richards]

An interesting point.  Does that mean they are just trying to target
advertising to get the votes or is that really the focus?  *sigh*  Of
course, Murdoch has already decided if we're getting the NBN.  This
saturday is just a formality for the masses ;)

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 4 September 2013 15:38, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:

> And that’s the real issue. If it’s all about just providing some level of
> service to people that have no real options today, they we need to just say
> that, accept that it’s a nation-building public service for the bush and be
> prepared to wear really major costs in providing it.
>
> ** **
>
> But I keep seeing adverts (that I presume I’m paying for), that tell me
> how important it is for letting businesses be competitive, and how
> businesses are needing higher and higher speeds. Almost none of the
> businesses that they are describing are in such areas. They are in areas
> with some existing coverage or they wouldn’t exist.
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>
> ** **
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
> ** **
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Richards
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:28 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access
> more available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere
> getting it first because they have few options.  I might complain about
> being stuck with optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I
> know people in outer suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not
> talking rural.  Sure it means I don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future
> but it is the fair option.
>
> ** **
>
> The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.
>  Making internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more
> important.  On that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really
> the same thing.  For many, you may as well say they can't have it.
>
>
> 
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
> ** **
>
> On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:**
> **
>
> But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 
>
>  
>
> We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And
> all they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what
> chance do we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?***
> *
>
>  
>
> I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by
> their logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of
> Ballarat, no problems.
>
>  
>
> As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually
> being delivered.
>
>  
>
> Regards,
>
>  
>
> Greg
>
>  
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
>  
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill McCarthy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM
>
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get
> that many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in
> three years sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done,
> then the fibre has to be physically installed down the road/streets. If
> that is done on an ad-hoc, one house here, one house there, not only is it
> terribly unproductive, but you can expect a whole lot of council backlash
> against the interruption to pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc.
> Seriously, you should try to get Telstra to run you some cable today and
> see what the costs are and how long it takes: 
>
>  
>
> Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *GregAtGregLowDotCom
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.
>
>  
>
> However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to
> deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.
> 
>
>  
>
> Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
> in 2016, and a dream of a service that’s u

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

What I don’t understand is that if you’re in a built up area, why they don’t 
just install Fibre to the Home.

 

Copper might do for the short term, but it is expensive to maintain and has all 
sorts of issues like crosstalk/interference, susceptibility to water etc. Fibre 
does not have those issues and fibre can last 60 years. Fibre can also give a 
consistent speed up to 50 kilometres from the node as opposed to copper that 
degrades significantly after 2 or 3 kilometres. Copper will also max out 
probably around the 200Mbps – 300Mbps mark from a theoretical maximum around 
1Gbps. Other countries are talking about 10Gbps and they have achieved Petabyte 
transmission speeds in the labs.

 

As David rightly pointed out, if you want to go to even higher speeds, they 
will need to replace the fibre with even faster fibre and change the technology 
at the end points, but once it is done properly once, those changes won’t be as 
difficult to achieve.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access more 
available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere getting it 
first because they have few options.  I might complain about being stuck with 
optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I know people in outer 
suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not talking rural.  Sure it means I 
don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future but it is the fair option.

 

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.  Making 
internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more important.  On 
that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really the same thing.  For 
many, you may as well say they can't have it.




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom mailto:g...@greglow.com> > wrote:

But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 

 

We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And all 
they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what chance do 
we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

 

I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by their 
logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually being 
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  ] 
On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

Same.. I have NBNCo teams outside my house today putting shit on the ground
only i'm confused as I have Fibre Optic to my house via OptiComm ..so i'm a
little puzzled as to what they are *installing* moreover why i'm higher on
the priority list :)

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:54 PM, mike smith  wrote:

> Looking at the rollout, it's scheduled to be available for me by end of
> year.  Which is somewhat unfair, being I've already got vdsl2.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:51 PM, GregAtGregLowDotCom wrote:
>
>> Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to
>> deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local
>> node in 2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I
>> retire in about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be
>> made. I’d pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Dr Greg Low
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
>> 
>>
>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Richards
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
>>
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic
>> referendum some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the
>> idea of a politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the
>> people" would vote for the president.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
>> without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
>> decision.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point
>> of view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only
>> option now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL
>> with a fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a
>> choice...
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> David
>>
>> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here’s a good read from today :
>>
>> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html
>> 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start
>> looking at the forest.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Meski
>
>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

true but none the less they start out that way. I also think both sides
have valid points to this argument about which is better or the right
approach. The point i'd make is do you think this entire thing is going to
last 1-2 more elections? as does anyone *ACTUALLY* think the NBN roll out
will happen within 4yrs on time and under budget... moreover does anyone
not think this will become a political football over the next 4-8yrs.

All of this is going to be moot post election day as if the polls are
correct and if Abott can stay quiet for a few more days and not say
anything stupid he's got this locked. So while you guys fight over Copper
Good/Bad I'l continue to download on my FTTH :D




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  Sure. But how do those turn out (compared to starting from requirements)
> – especially the really complex ones?
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 1:09 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> To be fair a lot of teams/companies do often run their projects from the
> "solution" first approach
>
> ** **
>
> Awkward moment.
>
>
> 
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
> ** **
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> 
>
>   
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
>  Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. 
>
>  I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
>
> I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the
> mass burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable
> equivalence.
>
>   
>
> Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%. 
>
>  
>
> And? What’s the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any
> such information, the above is a meaningless number.
>
>  
>
> You should know that, so stop being disingenuous. 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it
> doesn’t meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose? 
>
>  
>
> Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps
> services in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services
> with precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty
> of juice in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi
> unit block built in the last half decade or more will have copper in it
> that can push at least 1gbps to the MDF. 
>
>  
>
> Well, mine (residential unit) doesn’t. As I said before “sweeping
> generalisation are all wrong”. 
>
>  
>
> But let’s just assume mine’s an outlier. You seem to be starting from the
> solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>  
>
>  ** **
>

RE: NBN runs past my home - will Abbott charge me $4000 to connect it?

[Ian Thomas]

mike smith
But you are in the current FTTH rollout area, from what you say.  Budde sounds 
like he's spreading some FUD to make some quick connections...

 

His - Paul Budde’s - expression may be clumsy (he’s Dutch) but I don’t think 
it’s at all ambiguous, nor is it FUD, and he’s not involved with “making quick 
connections”.. 

Simply: Yes, I am in the current rollout, in fact on the footpath at my front 
gate is a refurbished Telstra pit with fibre running through it. 

I take Paul Budde’s response to mean that the Coalition would not (have the 
audacity to require NBNCo) charge me a connection fee, even if I delayed my NBN 
connection request to an RSP until 01/2014. 

 

  _  

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[GregAtGregLowDotCom]

And that’s the real issue. If it’s all about just providing some level of 
service to people that have no real options today, they we need to just say 
that, accept that it’s a nation-building public service for the bush and be 
prepared to wear really major costs in providing it.

 

But I keep seeing adverts (that I presume I’m paying for), that tell me how 
important it is for letting businesses be competitive, and how businesses are 
needing higher and higher speeds. Almost none of the businesses that they are 
describing are in such areas. They are in areas with some existing coverage or 
they wouldn’t exist.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access more 
available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere getting it 
first because they have few options.  I might complain about being stuck with 
optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I know people in outer 
suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not talking rural.  Sure it means I 
don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future but it is the fair option.

 

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.  Making 
internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more important.  On 
that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really the same thing.  For 
many, you may as well say they can't have it.




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom mailto:g...@greglow.com> > wrote:

But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 

 

We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And all 
they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what chance do 
we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

 

I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by their 
logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually being 
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  ] 
On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum som

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Nathan Chere]

I was living in Riverstone for a while when it was scheduled to be one of the 
first suburbs in NSW to see the practical benefits of the NBN roll-out after 
the local ALP puppet Michelle Rowland used the NBN as a key differentiator in 
her campaign.  That was 2007.

Luckily my TPG ASDL2 connection was serviceable enough (~8-10Mbps download is 
more than enough to be productive) so I wasn’t left hanging anyway, but last 
time I checked what was happening out there they were launching a “Riverstone 
digital hub” at the end of 2012 in Riverstone Library, ie one single site with 
anything remotely approaching the promises of the NBN.

That’s all they’ve produced. Not a single site, commercial or residential, 
hooked up. 6 years for a  supposed pioneer site to produce effectively zip. I 
can’t pretend to understand a fraction of the technical or financial complexity 
of an infrastructure rollout on anywhere near that scale, but I can see when 
we’re clearly being taken for a ride.

When people would rather vote for a dipshit like this than your own candidate 
you know you’re REALLY doing something wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQPXXHUilU

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:55 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Looking at the rollout, it's scheduled to be available for me by end of year.  
Which is somewhat unfair, being I've already got vdsl2.

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:51 PM, GregAtGregLowDotCom 
mailto:g...@greglow.com>> wrote:
Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 
419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 
4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au>> wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html



Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills


Click here to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Richards]

Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access
more available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere
getting it first because they have few options.  I might complain about
being stuck with optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I
know people in outer suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not
talking rural.  Sure it means I don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future
but it is the fair option.

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.
 Making internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more
important.  On that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really
the same thing.  For many, you may as well say they can't have it.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:

> But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 
>
> ** **
>
> We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And
> all they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what
> chance do we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by
> their logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of
> Ballarat, no problems.
>
> ** **
>
> As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually
> being delivered.
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>
> ** **
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
> ** **
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill McCarthy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get
> that many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in
> three years sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done,
> then the fibre has to be physically installed down the road/streets. If
> that is done on an ad-hoc, one house here, one house there, not only is it
> terribly unproductive, but you can expect a whole lot of council backlash
> against the interruption to pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc.
> Seriously, you should try to get Telstra to run you some cable today and
> see what the costs are and how long it takes: 
>
> ** **
>
> Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *GregAtGregLowDotCom
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.
>
> ** **
>
> However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to
> deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
> in 2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire
> in about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d
> pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>
> ** **
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
> ** **
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *David Richards
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.
>
> ** **
>
> For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
> some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
> politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
> would vote for the president.
>
> ** **
>
> The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
> without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
> decision.
>
> ** **
>
> People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point
> of view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only
> option now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL
> with a fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a
> choice...
>
>
> 
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house o

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

My experience of long, complex deployments is that the first bit's always 
pretty hard. You're always running into new challenges and issues. However, 
once you get enough "template" rollout processes, then things start to pick up 
- it becomes cookie-cutter.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:14 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

But what's the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN?

We're not even on the "we'll think about starting within 3 years" map. And all 
they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what chance do 
we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

I'm in an area where they'd make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by their 
logic, we can't have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can't see it actually being 
delivered.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

I wouldn't count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many "fridges" installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes:

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Like most people, I'd love to have FTTH.

However, I have zero confidence in the current government's ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won't make it happen.

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that's unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years' time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I'd pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au>> wrote:

Here's a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html



Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[GregAtGregLowDotCom]

But what's the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 

 

We're not even on the "we'll think about starting within 3 years" map. And
all they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what
chance do we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

 

I'm in an area where they'd make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by
their logic, we can't have it. If, however, I lived out the back of
Ballarat, no problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can't see it actually being
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn't count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get
that many "fridges" installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in
three years sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done,
then the fibre has to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that
is done on an ad-hoc, one house here, one house there, not only is it
terribly unproductive, but you can expect a whole lot of council backlash
against the interruption to pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc.
Seriously, you should try to get Telstra to run you some cable today and see
what the costs are and how long it takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I'd love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government's ability to
deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won't make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
in 2016, and a dream of a service that's unlikely to appear before I retire
in about 10 years' time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I'd
pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
would vote for the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option
now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> > wrote:

Here's a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turn
bulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-2013
0904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking
at the forest.

 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Bill McCarthy]

I wouldn't count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get
that many "fridges" installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in
three years sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done,
then the fibre has to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that
is done on an ad-hoc, one house here, one house there, not only is it
terribly unproductive, but you can expect a whole lot of council backlash
against the interruption to pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc.
Seriously, you should try to get Telstra to run you some cable today and see
what the costs are and how long it takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I'd love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government's ability to
deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won't make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
in 2016, and a dream of a service that's unlikely to appear before I retire
in about 10 years' time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I'd
pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
would vote for the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option
now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
wrote:

Here's a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turn
bulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-2013
0904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking
at the forest.

 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

Looking at the rollout, it's scheduled to be available for me by end of
year.  Which is somewhat unfair, being I've already got vdsl2.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:51 PM, GregAtGregLowDotCom wrote:

> Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.
>
> ** **
>
> However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to
> deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
> in 2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire
> in about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d
> pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>
> ** **
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
> ** **
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Richards
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.
>
> ** **
>
> For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
> some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
> politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
> would vote for the president.
>
> ** **
>
> The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
> without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
> decision.
>
> ** **
>
> People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point
> of view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only
> option now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL
> with a fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a
> choice...
>
>
> 
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
> ** **
>
> On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
> wrote:
>
> Here’s a good read from today :
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html
> 
>
>  
>
> Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start
> looking at the forest.
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[mike smith]

Let's join the seal skin club!  (poor taste, or so I've heard)


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Paul Evrat  wrote:

> Didn’t they originally make seal skin boots or such .. maybe it’s a return
> to core business (with a lot of cash to boot) ..
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:50 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft
>
> ** **
>
> Enterprise telco infrastructure, R&D and a substantial patent portfolio.**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *mike smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:45 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:
>
> It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to
> Microsoft... Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills,
> etc.
>
>  
>
> Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep
> (or be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs
> smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Meski
>
>  http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>
> ** **
>
> Click here  to
> report this email as spam.
>
> ** **
>
> This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com***
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6636 - Release Date: 09/03/13*
> ***
>



-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[GregAtGregLowDotCom]

Like most people, I'd love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government's ability to
deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won't make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
in 2016, and a dream of a service that's unlikely to appear before I retire
in about 10 years' time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I'd
pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:   www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
would vote for the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option
now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> > wrote:

Here's a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turn
bulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-2013
0904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking
at the forest.

 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:37 PM, David Richards  wrote:

> Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.
>
>
At least it wasn't impactful.


> For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
> some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
> politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
> would vote for the president.
>
>
It's like the fake senate parties - "No carbon Tax"   and "stop the greens"
- parties whose sole purpose is to attract those who don't think and funnel
votes to the majors.


> The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
> without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
> decision.
>
> People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point
> of view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.
>

It had a significant effect last election - the NBN per se, not the
technical detail.


>
> If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only
> option now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL
> with a fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a
> choice...
>


ADSL - its fantastic if you live in the exchange.  VDSL2 - truly is
fantastic because its implemented for people who do live in the exchange
(high density apartments) and have cat5 or 6 from there to their apartment


>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
>
> On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
> wrote:
>
>> Here’s a good read from today :
>>
>> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start
>> looking at the forest.
>>
>
>


-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

The minimum return expected on the NBN would be A$105 billion dollars and the 
maximum would be A$237 billion dollars. I don’t see anything wrong with giving 
a range. The point is that even if the cost of the NBN blows out, we still make 
money and we still get all the economic activity, jobs, money etc.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:22 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Tony Wright mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I still haven’t heard anything from you that convinces me David.

 

I doubt there is anything I can say that would convince you.

 

The NBN is likely to bring in A$105 billion dollars to A$237 billion dollars. 
That’s a lot of economic activity. A lot of business. A lot of jobs. Even if it 
breaks even we will be ahead.

 

I think you most definitely fit into:

1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business

100-230 billion is a hell of an error bar in an estimate. 

 

I'm not sure how whether people have GPON at home or not affects any of the 
work I do or is in any way aligned or not with any of my businesses. 

Japan already have 2Gbps. The US have large areas with 1Gbps now. And you are 
proposing 100Mbps? As a limit? Theoretical maximum for copper is around the 
1Gbps mark, and they are only advertising download speeds, not upload. The rest 
of the developed world are moving to 10Gbps.

 

[ ... ]

 

Trent from Punchy might want 10gbps but he is not going to make massive strides 
in GDP with it. He'll download porn and watch the F1. Mate. 

 

HFC can do 100mbps now, can go up to 300-400mbps. My question is why pull this 
out and replace it with something more expensive that does the same thing. 

And that’s supposed to mean us in IT.  Yet the antique thinking from some in 
our own industry is astounding.

I try to plumb new depths of ignorance whenever I can. 

 

I just wish I knew how much data you can keep in flight on a 10gbps resi-grade 
fibre service to know what the real world performance would be like after 
building the NBN. 

 

David. 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Richards]

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
would vote for the president.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
decision.

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option
now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy wrote:

> Here’s a good read from today :
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html
> 
>
> ** **
>
> Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start
> looking at the forest.
>

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Tony Wright  wrote:

> I still haven’t heard anything from you that convinces me David.
>

I doubt there is anything I can say that would convince you.


> 
>
> The NBN is likely to bring in A$105 billion dollars to A$237 billion
> dollars. That’s a lot of economic activity. A lot of business. A lot of
> jobs. Even if it breaks even we will be ahead.
>
> ** **
>
> I think you most definitely fit into:
>
> 1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business
>
100-230 billion is a hell of an error bar in an estimate.

I'm not sure how whether people have GPON at home or not affects any of the
work I do or is in any way aligned or not with any of my businesses.

> 
>
> Japan already have 2Gbps. The US have large areas with 1Gbps now. And you
> are proposing 100Mbps? As a limit? Theoretical maximum for copper is around
> the 1Gbps mark, and they are only advertising download speeds, not upload.
> The rest of the developed world are moving to 10Gbps.
>

[ ... ]

Trent from Punchy might want 10gbps but he is not going to make massive
strides in GDP with it. He'll download porn and watch the F1. Mate.

HFC can do 100mbps now, can go up to 300-400mbps. My question is why pull
this out and replace it with something more expensive that does the same
thing.

> And that’s supposed to mean us in IT.  Yet the antique thinking from some
> in our own industry is astounding.
>
I try to plumb new depths of ignorance whenever I can.

I just wish I knew how much data you can keep in flight on a 10gbps
resi-grade fibre service to know what the real world performance would be
like after building the NBN.

David.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited
I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the mass 
burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable equivalence.
Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%.
And? What’s the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any such 
information, the above is a meaningless number. You should know that, so stop 
being disingenuous.
It isn't hard to extrapolate the outcome from the above but I guess we'll have 
to agree to disagree.

So, all infrastructure deployment projects have linear capital expenditure and 
end user enablement pathways? That’s the only scenario where I could see that 
“it’s not hard to extrapolate” an outcome. I suppose every software development 
project that follows a waterfall methodology must be a huge waste of money – 
because you spend a lot of money before actually delivering any functionality. 
And every time someone builds a data centre, it’s similarly a waste of money.

Surely you jest? Frankly, I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

Why don’t you actually put some fact/figures/analysis out there, instead of 
just “assuming the answer”.

But let’s just assume mine’s an outlier. You seem to be starting from the 
solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?

Absolutely. *rolls eyes*

Yet, it seems to be how you’re approaching this one. What’s different?

You seem either unable or unwilling to string a together a coherent rebuttal or 
address issues raised. I don’t see how people are supposed to take you 
seriously here. I really think you’re doing your side of the argument a 
disservice.

Cheers
Ken

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Bill McCarthy]

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. 
>
>  I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
>
> I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the
> mass burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable
> equivalence.
>
>  ** **
>
> Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%. 
>
>  
>
> And? What’s the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any
> such information, the above is a meaningless number. You should know
> that, so stop being disingenuous.
>

It isn't hard to extrapolate the outcome from the above but I guess we'll
have to agree to disagree.

 So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it
> doesn’t meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose?
>
> **
>
> ** **
>
> Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps
> services in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services
> with precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty
> of juice in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi
> unit block built in the last half decade or more will have copper in it
> that can push at least 1gbps to the MDF. 
>
> ** **
>
> Well, mine (residential unit) doesn’t. As I said before “sweeping
> generalisation are all wrong”.
>

I'm surprised - I thought cat5e was an Austel legal requirements for MDUs
for a while now.


> But let’s just assume mine’s an outlier. You seem to be starting from the
> solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?
>

Absolutely. *rolls eyes*

David.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

Sure. But how do those turn out (compared to starting from requirements) - 
especially the really complex ones?

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 1:09 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

To be fair a lot of teams/companies do often run their projects from the 
"solution" first approach

Awkward moment.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known.
I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
I think that's called a "straw man" argument - no one's advocating the mass 
burning of money. All you're doing here is drawing a debateable equivalence.

Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%.

And? What's the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any such 
information, the above is a meaningless number.

You should know that, so stop being disingenuous.


So, you're basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it doesn't 
meet future requirements, or isn't fit for purpose?

Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps services 
in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services with 
precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty of juice 
in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi unit block built 
in the last half decade or more will have copper in it that can push at least 
1gbps to the MDF.

Well, mine (residential unit) doesn't. As I said before "sweeping 
generalisation are all wrong".

But let's just assume mine's an outlier. You seem to be starting from the 
solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?

Cheers
Ken

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

I still haven’t heard anything from you that convinces me David.

 

The NBN is likely to bring in A$105 billion dollars to A$237 billion dollars. 
That’s a lot of economic activity. A lot of business. A lot of jobs. Even if it 
breaks even we will be ahead.

 

I think you most definitely fit into:

1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business

 

Japan already have 2Gbps. The US have large areas with 1Gbps now. And you are 
proposing 100Mbps? As a limit? Theoretical maximum for copper is around the 
1Gbps mark, and they are only advertising download speeds, not upload. The rest 
of the developed world are moving to 10Gbps. 

 

23) It is worth visiting China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Scandinavia, Jersey 
+++ to see the actuality and their plans to move up to 10Gbit/s to the home.

 

We in IT are supposed to be driving economic growth through technology. 

 

25) This country has its back to the financial wall and needs to focus on the 
GDP enabling technologies and those members of the population that can invoke 
+ve change to the benefit of all.

 

And that’s supposed to mean us in IT.  Yet the antique thinking from some in 
our own industry is astounding.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Ken Schaefer mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com> > wrote:

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Ken Schaefer mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com> > wrote:

Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?

 

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. 

 

I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.

 

I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the mass 
burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable equivalence.

 

Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%. 

 

Sorry no. If you can deliver something of benefit today for good value, then 
you should do it. If you have existing infrastructure that is servicing 
millions of people with 100mbps then you shouldn't pull it out and replace it - 
that's dogma. 

 

So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it doesn’t 
meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose? 

 

Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps services 
in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services with 
precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty of juice 
in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi unit block built 
in the last half decade or more will have copper in it that can push at least 
1gbps to the MDF. 

 

Surely any decision on what to do should start with requirements, and work from 
there. Not start with the solution and work backwards.

 

If you have the fiduciary duty of spending a metric pantload of someone else's 
money, then you should start with some sort of business case or cost benefit 
analysis. 

 

David

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

To be fair a lot of teams/companies do often run their projects from the
"solution" first approach

Awkward moment.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
>  Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. 
>
>  I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
>
> I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the
> mass burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable
> equivalence.
>
>  ** **
>
> Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%. 
>
>  
>
> And? What’s the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any
> such information, the above is a meaningless number.
>
> ** **
>
> You should know that, so stop being disingenuous. 
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it
> doesn’t meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose? 
>
> ** **
>
> Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps
> services in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services
> with precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty
> of juice in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi
> unit block built in the last half decade or more will have copper in it
> that can push at least 1gbps to the MDF. 
>
> ** **
>
> Well, mine (residential unit) doesn’t. As I said before “sweeping
> generalisation are all wrong”. 
>
> ** **
>
> But let’s just assume mine’s an outlier. You seem to be starting from the
> solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
> ** **
>

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:54 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known.
I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the mass 
burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable equivalence.

Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%.

And? What’s the context? Is the better or worse than expected? Without any such 
information, the above is a meaningless number.

You should know that, so stop being disingenuous.


So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it doesn’t 
meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose?

Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps services 
in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services with 
precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty of juice 
in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi unit block built 
in the last half decade or more will have copper in it that can push at least 
1gbps to the MDF.

Well, mine (residential unit) doesn’t. As I said before “sweeping 
generalisation are all wrong”.

But let’s just assume mine’s an outlier. You seem to be starting from the 
solution again. Is that how you run all your projects?

Cheers
Ken

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Ken Schaefer 
> wrote:
>
> **
>
>  Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?
>
>  
>
> Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. 
>
>  ** **
>
> I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.
>
> ** **
>
> I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the
> mass burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable
> equivalence.
>

Current batting avg: 0.5% of the outcome for 12%.


>   Sorry no. If you can deliver something of benefit today for good value,
> then you should do it. If you have existing infrastructure that is
> servicing millions of people with 100mbps then you shouldn't pull it out
> and replace it - that's dogma. 
>
> ** **
>
> So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it
> doesn’t meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose?
>

Nope. I am advocating leaving existing perfectly operational 100mbps
services in place rather than replacing them with equivalent speed services
with precisely zero difference to the end punter. Moreover, HFC has plenty
of juice in it yet and can go well past 100mbps.  Any high density resi
unit block built in the last half decade or more will have copper in it
that can push at least 1gbps to the MDF.


> 
>
> Surely any decision on what to do should start with requirements, and work
> from there. Not start with the solution and work backwards.
>

If you have the fiduciary duty of spending a metric pantload of someone
else's money, then you should start with some sort of business case or cost
benefit analysis.

David

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:13 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known.

I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.

I think that’s called a “straw man” argument – no one’s advocating the mass 
burning of money. All you’re doing here is drawing a debateable equivalence.

Since you’re been involved in enough IT projects over the last couple of 
decades you should also know that “all sweeping generalisations are wrong” and 
that the opposite of “let’s do this right” is “let’s have a hodge-podge of 
different things that could cripple you in the future”. Both approaches have 
risks – neither is the “one true path”

Sorry no. If you can deliver something of benefit today for good value, then 
you should do it. If you have existing infrastructure that is servicing 
millions of people with 100mbps then you shouldn't pull it out and replace it - 
that's dogma.

So, you’re basically advocating keeping this 100mbps kit, even if it doesn’t 
meet future requirements, or isn’t fit for purpose? That seems like dogma to me.

Surely any decision on what to do should start with requirements, and work from 
there. Not start with the solution and work backwards.

Cheers
Ken

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

I just find it surprising that instead of focussing on the issues, there is an 
attack an exceptionally credible personality who is an adviser to the UK 
parliament!

 

Calling Peter Cochrane OBE a hack just because of your political beliefs is 
quite an insult. Here is his CV:

http://www.cochrane.org.uk/my-cv/

He has the technical knowledge as well, including a Masters in 
Telecommunications Systems, PhD in Telecoms Transmission and Doctorate in 
Electronic Systems Design. He is the winner of the IEEE Millenium Medal, won 
the 2007 Industry award for contributions to UK technology, and has won prizes 
and awards as long as your arm.

He was a technical adviser to the United Nations, Chief Technologist at British 
Telecom, Head of Research at BT Laboratories

 

So what are David’s qualifications again? 

 

Given that I believe Peter Cochrane is very credible, and that, if the New 
Zealand NBN study is correct, the NBN with fibre to the home is worth A$105 
billion dollars to $237 billion dollars to the economy, I don’t see why it 
can’t be built. It looks to me like it pays for itself!

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:58 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?

 

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. FWIW I think that this type of 
proposed infrastructure is a good idea, but I’m not wedded to this specific 
implementation (I just think that it’s better than the proposed alternative)

 

Since you’re been involved in enough IT projects over the last couple of 
decades you should also know that “all sweeping generalisations are wrong” and 
that the opposite of “let’s do this right” is “let’s have a hodge-podge of 
different things that could cripple you in the future”. Both approaches have 
risks – neither is the “one true path”

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com   
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Ken Schaefer mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com> > wrote:

Yet he was the CTO for BT. He’s probably got a reasonable level of experience 
in how to actually deliver “something of this size”

Anyone else sceptical of “the only way to do  is…” 
claims that come from back-seat drivers?

Err I think you'll find it is the FTTP nutjobs such as yourself that are 
pushing 'the one true path' line. I've been involved in enough IT projects in 
the last couple of decades to know that you're in the shit as soon as someone 
says "Let's do this right and let's do this once" (English translation: "Let's 
be inflexible and dogmatic"). 

 

You don't need a masters degree in the blinding obvious to work out turning off 
3.5 million hfc services and replacing them with 3.5 million gpon services is a 
stupid waste of money. Yay - let's spend a gazillion dollars turning 100mbps 
into 100mbps. 

 

David. 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?
>
> ** **
>
> Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known.
>

I have an antipathy for piling up money and setting it on fire.

[ ... ]


> 
>
> Since you’re been involved in enough IT projects over the last couple of
> decades you should also know that “all sweeping generalisations are wrong”
> and that the opposite of “let’s do this right” is “let’s have a hodge-podge
> of different things that could cripple you in the future”. Both approaches
> have risks – neither is the “one true path”
>

Sorry no. If you can deliver something of benefit today for good value,
then you should do it. If you have existing infrastructure that is
servicing millions of people with 100mbps then you shouldn't pull it out
and replace it - that's dogma.

Just the thought of spending government dollars going into new apartment
buildings and putting fibre next to existing cat5e/cat6 copper runs because
of this new fibre religion makes me want to bang my head on the desk.

David.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

Um, since when am I a “FTTP nutjob”?

Your antipathy to the current NBN is well known. FWIW I think that this type of 
proposed infrastructure is a good idea, but I’m not wedded to this specific 
implementation (I just think that it’s better than the proposed alternative)

Since you’re been involved in enough IT projects over the last couple of 
decades you should also know that “all sweeping generalisations are wrong” and 
that the opposite of “let’s do this right” is “let’s have a hodge-podge of 
different things that could cripple you in the future”. Both approaches have 
risks – neither is the “one true path”

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
Yet he was the CTO for BT. He’s probably got a reasonable level of experience 
in how to actually deliver “something of this size”
Anyone else sceptical of “the only way to do  is…” 
claims that come from back-seat drivers?
Err I think you'll find it is the FTTP nutjobs such as yourself that are 
pushing 'the one true path' line. I've been involved in enough IT projects in 
the last couple of decades to know that you're in the shit as soon as someone 
says "Let's do this right and let's do this once" (English translation: "Let's 
be inflexible and dogmatic").

You don't need a masters degree in the blinding obvious to work out turning off 
3.5 million hfc services and replacing them with 3.5 million gpon services is a 
stupid waste of money. Yay - let's spend a gazillion dollars turning 100mbps 
into 100mbps.

David.

[OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual
rants.. but in both cases I was also asked "How would you fix all of this"
style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response
to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate
out of this should you be "In charge" of it all?

- Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
Namespace or "Adopt HTML5 or go away" thinking, instead take a page out of
the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
developers executing on their "Apps" (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...

- Design <-> Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
abstracting designers further away from the developer <-> designer
workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.

Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its "adopt win8
or get lost" mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
Win8 learning(s)).

Agree? have better idea?


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  Yet he was the CTO for BT. He’s probably got a reasonable level of
> experience in how to actually deliver “something of this size”
>
> Anyone else sceptical of “the only way to do 
> is…” claims that come from back-seat drivers?
>
Err I think you'll find it is the FTTP nutjobs such as yourself that are
pushing 'the one true path' line. I've been involved in enough IT projects
in the last couple of decades to know that you're in the shit as soon as
someone says "Let's do this right and let's do this once" (English
translation: "Let's be inflexible and dogmatic").

You don't need a masters degree in the blinding obvious to work out turning
off 3.5 million hfc services and replacing them with 3.5 million gpon
services is a stupid waste of money. Yay - let's spend a gazillion dollars
turning 100mbps into 100mbps.

David.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

Wow, you focussed on a less relevant part of the document like a pro!  I guess 
we’ll have to skip the part where the Liberals are spending just as much on the 
NBN as Labor but getting a significantly inferior system that lacks value for 
money. And they call themselves economic managers? 

19) The UK will be frozen out of Cloud Computing without a bandwidth everywhere

20) Bandwidths like 1Gbit/s might look huge today but they will look puny 
tomorrow

21) In my lifetime fast was: 90, 110, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, 9600, 18,200, 
56,000, 64,000, 365 bit/s…,1, 2, 10, 20, 100, 200, 1000Mbit/s……why would anyone 
think this progression would stop or even slow down ??

I don’t have a problem with the government focussing on the metropolitan areas 
first before dealing with the country, but to give us Fibre to the Node in the 
city? As Cochrane says,  

9) More equipment and interface types than necessary is really bad engineering

14) FTTH provides a future proofing, ease of operation, lowest cost and the 
ultimate flexibility

15) FTTC/K et all with electronics between switch and customer just adds 
unreliability operating costs

A lot of countries are planning 10Gbps networks, and the Liberals are promising 
25Mbps. 10Gbps is 400 times as fast as the Liberals promised speed, and 10 
times faster than Labor’s.

 

 

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:31 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Tony Wright mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Now to my position – lest you think me some impractical academic. In my BT life 
I was employed as:

1) A digger of trenches

2) An installer of poles, cables, telephones PBXs, exchanges

3) A maintainer of PBXs, switches, repeater and radio stations

4) A network designer and planner

5) A research engineer

6) A software writer

7) A designer of test equipment

8) Systems and networks designer

9) Head of Group a then Head of Section and then Head of Division for 
Transmission Systems

10) Head of Research and then CTO

And since leaving BT life and experience has been even faster and even broader…

 

Two pages of bloviating from an ex-Telco hack that misses the point. 

 

Since 2009, BT has passed 16 million premises with FTTx.

 

Since 2009 NBN Co has "passed" 200K and a good chunk of those can't order the 
service. They've also spent 12% of the capex delivering 0.5% of the FTTP 
connections.

 

His arguments are irrational. They only way to deliver something of this size 
is to be transport agnostic, stage the delivery and don't do stupid shit like 
throwing out 3.5million perfectly good 100mbps services that exist today so you 
can buy 100mbps services that double the cost in 2020. 

 

Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty selling this we will probably never 
know.

 

The only way to sell the NBN is to ignore time and money. The electorate isn't 
that stupid. 

 

David. 

 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 11:31 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

They only way to deliver something of this size is to be transport agnostic, 
stage the delivery and don't do stupid shit like throwing out 3.5million 
perfectly good 100mbps services that exist today so you can buy 100mbps 
services that double the cost in 2020.

Yet he was the CTO for BT. He’s probably got a reasonable level of experience 
in how to actually deliver “something of this size”

Anyone else sceptical of “the only way to do  is…” 
claims that come from back-seat drivers?

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Tony Wright  wrote:

> Now to my position – lest you think me some impractical academic. In my BT
> life I was employed as:
>
> **
>
> 1) A digger of trenches
>
> 2) An installer of poles, cables, telephones PBXs, exchanges
>
> 3) A maintainer of PBXs, switches, repeater and radio stations
>
> 4) A network designer and planner
>
> 5) A research engineer
>
> 6) A software writer
>
> 7) A designer of test equipment
>
> 8) Systems and networks designer
>
> 9) Head of Group a then Head of Section and then Head of Division for
> Transmission Systems
>
> 10) Head of Research and then CTO
>
> And since leaving BT life and experience has been even faster and even
> broader…
>

Two pages of bloviating from an ex-Telco hack that misses the point.

Since 2009, BT has passed 16 million premises with FTTx.

Since 2009 NBN Co has "passed" 200K and a good chunk of those can't order
the service. They've also spent 12% of the capex delivering 0.5% of the
FTTP connections.

His arguments are irrational. They only way to deliver something of this
size is to be transport agnostic, stage the delivery and don't do stupid
shit like throwing out 3.5million perfectly good 100mbps services that
exist today so you can buy 100mbps services that double the cost in 2020.


>
> Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty selling this we will probably
> never know.
>

The only way to sell the NBN is to ignore time and money. The electorate
isn't that stupid.

David.

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Grant Molloy]

Some Fed govt departments give "dumb company phones"..
On Sep 4, 2013 10:45 AM, "mike smith"  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:
>
>> It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to
>> Microsoft... Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills,
>> etc.
>>
>> Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep
>> (or be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?
>>
>
>
> Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs
> smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)
>
> --
> Meski
>
>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

The problem with cost-benefit analysis’ for something like this type of 
project, is that there will be a huge “unknowns” number, the size of which 
people will just argue about. It’s just “kicking the can” down the road.

Look at the copper network – when that was being rolled out the concept of 
using that network for something called “the internet” wouldn’t have ever 
factored in as a discrete item. Yet I doubt anyone would question that it’s 
provided an enormous amount of benefit today.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Nathan Chere
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:46 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited


Ø  Interesting reading. Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty selling this 
we will probably never know.

Probably something to do with the public face of the plan being a patronising 
power-tripping imbecile with no significant IT or Telco industry experience or 
credibility and even less respect for the public he was (still is) getting paid 
a motza to supposedly serve – Stephen “Spams & Scams” Conroy.

For such a significant public investment, things like a detailed cost-benefit 
analysis made available for open review should be mandatory before approval 
much less roll-out. To the best of my knowledge this still isn’t the case. They 
were also pushing things like the mandatory internet filter as part-and-parcel 
of the NBN which didn’t help (imagine the backlash if PRISM was making news 
while they were still pushing it?).

If you push your product from day #1 with an iron fist attitude and constantly 
behave like you have something to hide, people won’t want to buy in whether 
you’re selling a bona fide cure for cancer or rancid snake oil.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:15 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: [OT] NBN revisited

Hi all,

Now, I should start this by pointing out that it is looking like the Coalition 
is going to win this election, so this little excerpt is unlikely to change 
anything, but it’s always good to be informed.

This is an excerpt from Peter Cochrane, ex-head of British Telecom, who 
essentially told the UK parliament how fibre to the node was one of the worst 
mistakes they’ve ever made. Just about every country that implemented fibre to 
the node now regrets that decision.

As far as governments are concerned, he said "…just getting them to realise 
that they have been misinformed and need to start thinking about the needs of a 
nation rather than the easy life desires of companies with outmoded thinking."

From Peter:
"The Problem With DUDES in Telco’s
1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business
2) And their business is founded on a 200 year legacy of copper and not future 
IT needs
3) They have been used to a monopoly past
4) Like the bankers they have lost all sight of their full responsibilities to 
the society in which they live
5) Their old technology choices and management systems mean they cannot respond 
fast to change
6) BUT their was a bit of a golden time when their networks were transformed by 
optical fibre linking cities
7) In BTs case this saw staffing fall from 242,000 to 110,000, and if they did 
FTTH it would fall to 30,000 or less
8) AND THEN they did really dumb things like MPLS which is a concatenation of 
decision errors
9) More equipment and interface types than necessary is really bad engineering
10 And so is over 6000 buildings when you need less than 100 – and this is 
copper v glass
Here are things telco’s real don’t get:
11) The world is not asymmetric
12) The cost go getting bandwidth to any location is zip – 1 bit/s or 10Gbit/s 
it is the same – civil engineering dominates all cost – even when you already 
have ducts in place
13) The cost of fibre is much less than copper for long lines and the local 
loop – there is no difference….
14) FTTH provides a future proofing, ease of operation, lowest cost and the 
ultimate flexibility
15) FTTC/K et all with electronics between switch and customer just adds 
unreliability operating costs
16) PONS – GPON AND BPON et al made sense when fibre was 25p/m but not any more!
17) Direct fibre is simple cheap and reliable and can be built with office 
grade EtherNet kit
18) Without FTTH we will never have effective 3G or 4G – we need these nodes in 
offices and homes
19) The UK will be frozen out of Cloud Computing without a bandwidth everywhere
20) Bandwidths like 1Gbit/s might look huge today but they will look puny 
tomorrow
21) In my lifetime fast was: 90, 110, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, 9600, 18,200, 
56,000, 64,000, 365 bit/s…,1, 2, 10, 20, 100, 200, 1000Mbit/s……why would anyone 
think this progression would stop or even slow down ??
22) No surprise then the leading industrial nations look upon the UK and its 
silly debates with pity and amusement wh

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Greg Harris]

Nokia also makes a lot of the network cell sites and (telephone) exchange
stuff


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:06 AM, David Kean wrote:

>  > don't twit me about phones vs smartphones, noone buys dumbphones
> anymore.
>
> ** **
>
> Smart phones only overtook dumb phones for the first time this year and
> Nokia was still one of the largest manufacturer of them. They however, are
> seeing a rapid decline. However, they also come over to Microsoft.
>
> ** **
>
> This article gives a good overview of the buyout:
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/microsoft-nokia-buyout-details-7-things-to-know/
> .
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:45 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:
>
>   It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to
> Microsoft... Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills,
> etc.
>
>  
>
> Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep
> (or be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?
>
>  ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs
> smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Meski
>
>  http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

I have FTTH :) *yeah sucks to be me huh* and the reality is i barely even
scratch the surface of its actual usage levels, given the majority of the
internet can't even upload fast enough unless i'm dealing in BitTorrent
style behaviour (node to node). Websites usually cap at around 500k-1mb
anyway and streaming usually maxes out at around that range as well so
assuming I do stumble onto a node that gives me 6mb/s (usually Usenet with
50+ connections running in parallel) in download my entire routing /
internal network gets quite busy (resulting in having to buy a descent
switch for $1k+) ..

So I just scratch my head and think, ok assuming everyones right about the
LNP and assuming we need to think big first and worry about the steps last,
how does one contemplate the next 5-10 years as this thing gets rolled out?

Moreover, does the entire Australian IT sector just sit on its hands for
years and wait patiently for NBN to roll out whilst not daring to invest in
alternative broadband related IP for fear of it being marked redundant as
Fibre to the Home occurs... or do they actually say "yeah screw this,
taking to long... look we have " which then puts more added pressure on FTTH price models
reducing the projected returns which then fuels more arguments "this is
dead on arrival" blah blah.

It's all good to paint a picture that with Fibre Optic we all level-up in
our internet / broadband consumption philosophical needs but It
realistically comes down to "Short term win long term delay/cost" vs "Short
term stalemate/cost long term win"

To argue that LNP vs ALP is a bad vs evil is to say we are voting for Rudd
vs Abott ... when if you just look over their shoulders you see a bunch of
people behind them that we've also not seem to pay a lot of attention
towards..for instance we have Albo running the ICT portfolio of the country
who to me looks like a Politician that still scratches his head at why his
VCR won't work... Then you've got Chris Bowen an Undergraduate in Economics
as our countries national Treasurer (thats today) .. and i'm not convinced
LNP have some bright stars in their ranks either..

I guess my dilemma is i'm not against having FTTH (clearly I have it
already) I'm not entirely convinced that its Build once or nothing
approach. I just wonder if it should be a phased roll out and i can see
both sides of the argument stack up just as well as one another whilst the
core argument for FTTH or bust is simply "We don't trust govts to come back
and finish the last mile" which is to assume should that thought prevail it
will also sustain another 1-2 elections (depending on current NBN roll out
they are likely have to convince us with 1-2 more federal elections so if
you think this one has put pressure on the idea, can you imagine the next
election?).

Big call.


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:51 AM, mike smith  wrote:

> The other part is the "not invented here" syndrome from the coalition.
>  And their owing a favour to murdoch, bigtime.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Nathan Chere 
> wrote:
>
>>  **Ø  **Interesting reading. Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty
>> selling this we will probably never know.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Probably something to do with the public face of the plan being a
>> patronising power-tripping imbecile with no significant IT or Telco
>> industry experience or credibility and even less respect for the public he
>> was (still is) getting paid a motza to supposedly serve – Stephen “Spams &
>> Scams” Conroy.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> For such a significant public investment, things like a detailed
>> cost-benefit analysis made available for open review should be mandatory
>> before approval much less roll-out. To the best of my knowledge this still
>> isn’t the case. They were also pushing things like the mandatory internet
>> filter as part-and-parcel of the NBN which didn’t help (imagine the
>> backlash if PRISM was making news while they were still pushing it?).
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If you push your product from day #1 with an iron fist attitude and
>> constantly behave like you have something to hide, people won’t want to buy
>> in whether you’re selling a bona fide cure for cancer or rancid snake oil.
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:15 AM
>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>> *Subject:* [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Now, I should start this by pointing out that it is looking like the
>> Coalition is going to win this election, so this little excerpt is unlikely
>> to change anything, but it’s always good to be informed.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> This is an excerpt from Peter Cochrane, ex-head of British Telecom, who
>> essentially told the UK parliament how fibre to the node was one of the
>> worst mistakes they’ve ever made. Just about every country th

RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[David Kean]

> don't twit me about phones vs smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.

Smart phones only overtook dumb phones for the first time this year and Nokia 
was still one of the largest manufacturer of them. They however, are seeing a 
rapid decline. However, they also come over to Microsoft.

This article gives a good overview of the buyout: 
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/microsoft-nokia-buyout-details-7-things-to-know/.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:45 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM, 
mailto:osjasonrobe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to Microsoft... 
Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills, etc.

Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep (or 
be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?


Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs 
smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)

--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Paul Evrat]

Didn’t they originally make seal skin boots or such .. maybe it’s a return to 
core business (with a lot of cash to boot) ..

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Nathan Chere
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

 

Enterprise telco infrastructure, R&D and a substantial patent portfolio.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:45 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:

It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to Microsoft... 
Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills, etc.

 

Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep (or 
be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?

 

 

Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs 
smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)

 

-- 
Meski


   http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

 

Click here   to report 
this email as spam.

 

This message has been scanned for malware by Websense.  
 www.websense.com

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

The other part is the "not invented here" syndrome from the coalition.  And
their owing a favour to murdoch, bigtime.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Nathan Chere wrote:

>  **Ø  **Interesting reading. Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty
> selling this we will probably never know.
>
> ** **
>
> Probably something to do with the public face of the plan being a
> patronising power-tripping imbecile with no significant IT or Telco
> industry experience or credibility and even less respect for the public he
> was (still is) getting paid a motza to supposedly serve – Stephen “Spams &
> Scams” Conroy.
>
> ** **
>
> For such a significant public investment, things like a detailed
> cost-benefit analysis made available for open review should be mandatory
> before approval much less roll-out. To the best of my knowledge this still
> isn’t the case. They were also pushing things like the mandatory internet
> filter as part-and-parcel of the NBN which didn’t help (imagine the
> backlash if PRISM was making news while they were still pushing it?).
>
> ** **
>
> If you push your product from day #1 with an iron fist attitude and
> constantly behave like you have something to hide, people won’t want to buy
> in whether you’re selling a bona fide cure for cancer or rancid snake oil.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:15 AM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Hi all,
>
> ** **
>
> Now, I should start this by pointing out that it is looking like the
> Coalition is going to win this election, so this little excerpt is unlikely
> to change anything, but it’s always good to be informed.
>
> ** **
>
> This is an excerpt from Peter Cochrane, ex-head of British Telecom, who
> essentially told the UK parliament how fibre to the node was one of the
> worst mistakes they’ve ever made. Just about every country that implemented
> fibre to the node now regrets that decision.
>
> ** **
>
> As far as governments are concerned, he said "…just getting them to
> realise that they have been misinformed and need to start thinking about
> the needs of a nation rather than the easy life desires of companies with
> outmoded thinking."
>
> ** **
>
> From Peter:
>
> "The Problem With DUDES in Telco’s
>
> 1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business
> 
>
> 2) And their business is founded on a 200 year legacy of copper and not
> future IT needs
>
> 3) They have been used to a monopoly past
>
> 4) Like the bankers they have lost all sight of their full
> responsibilities to the society in which they live
>
> 5) Their old technology choices and management systems mean they cannot
> respond fast to change
>
> 6) BUT their was a bit of a golden time when their networks were
> transformed by optical fibre linking cities
>
> 7) In BTs case this saw staffing fall from 242,000 to 110,000, and if they
> did FTTH it would fall to 30,000 or less
>
> 8) AND THEN they did really dumb things like MPLS which is a concatenation
> of decision errors
>
> 9) More equipment and interface types than necessary is really bad
> engineering
>
> 10 And so is over 6000 buildings when you need less than 100 – and this is
> copper v glass
>
> Here are things telco’s real don’t get:
>
> 11) The world is not asymmetric
>
> 12) The cost go getting bandwidth to any location is zip – 1 bit/s or
> 10Gbit/s it is the same – civil engineering dominates all cost – even when
> you already have ducts in place
>
> 13) The cost of fibre is much less than copper for long lines and the
> local loop – there is no difference….
>
> 14) FTTH provides a future proofing, ease of operation, lowest cost and
> the ultimate flexibility
>
> 15) FTTC/K et all with electronics between switch and customer just adds
> unreliability operating costs
>
> 16) PONS – GPON AND BPON et al made sense when fibre was 25p/m but not any
> more!
>
> 17) Direct fibre is simple cheap and reliable and can be built with office
> grade EtherNet kit
>
> 18) Without FTTH we will never have effective 3G or 4G – we need these
> nodes in offices and homes
>
> 19) The UK will be frozen out of Cloud Computing without a bandwidth
> everywhere
>
> 20) Bandwidths like 1Gbit/s might look huge today but they will look puny
> tomorrow
>
> 21) In my lifetime fast was: 90, 110, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, 9600, 18,200,
> 56,000, 64,000, 365 bit/s…,1, 2, 10, 20, 100, 200, 1000Mbit/s……why would
> anyone think this progression would stop or even slow down ??
>
> 22) No surprise then the leading industrial nations look upon the UK and
> its silly debates with pity and amusement whilst they get on with the job.
> 
>
> 23) It is worth visiting China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Scandinavia,
> Jersey +++ to see the actualit

RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Nathan Chere]

Enterprise telco infrastructure, R&D and a substantial patent portfolio.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:45 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM, 
mailto:osjasonrobe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to Microsoft... 
Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills, etc.

Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep (or 
be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?


Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs 
smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)

--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills


Click here to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Nathan Chere]

?  Interesting reading. Why the Labor Party had so much difficulty selling this 
we will probably never know.

Probably something to do with the public face of the plan being a patronising 
power-tripping imbecile with no significant IT or Telco industry experience or 
credibility and even less respect for the public he was (still is) getting paid 
a motza to supposedly serve – Stephen “Spams & Scams” Conroy.

For such a significant public investment, things like a detailed cost-benefit 
analysis made available for open review should be mandatory before approval 
much less roll-out. To the best of my knowledge this still isn’t the case. They 
were also pushing things like the mandatory internet filter as part-and-parcel 
of the NBN which didn’t help (imagine the backlash if PRISM was making news 
while they were still pushing it?).

If you push your product from day #1 with an iron fist attitude and constantly 
behave like you have something to hide, people won’t want to buy in whether 
you’re selling a bona fide cure for cancer or rancid snake oil.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:15 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: [OT] NBN revisited

Hi all,

Now, I should start this by pointing out that it is looking like the Coalition 
is going to win this election, so this little excerpt is unlikely to change 
anything, but it’s always good to be informed.

This is an excerpt from Peter Cochrane, ex-head of British Telecom, who 
essentially told the UK parliament how fibre to the node was one of the worst 
mistakes they’ve ever made. Just about every country that implemented fibre to 
the node now regrets that decision.

As far as governments are concerned, he said "…just getting them to realise 
that they have been misinformed and need to start thinking about the needs of a 
nation rather than the easy life desires of companies with outmoded thinking."

From Peter:
"The Problem With DUDES in Telco’s
1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business
2) And their business is founded on a 200 year legacy of copper and not future 
IT needs
3) They have been used to a monopoly past
4) Like the bankers they have lost all sight of their full responsibilities to 
the society in which they live
5) Their old technology choices and management systems mean they cannot respond 
fast to change
6) BUT their was a bit of a golden time when their networks were transformed by 
optical fibre linking cities
7) In BTs case this saw staffing fall from 242,000 to 110,000, and if they did 
FTTH it would fall to 30,000 or less
8) AND THEN they did really dumb things like MPLS which is a concatenation of 
decision errors
9) More equipment and interface types than necessary is really bad engineering
10 And so is over 6000 buildings when you need less than 100 – and this is 
copper v glass
Here are things telco’s real don’t get:
11) The world is not asymmetric
12) The cost go getting bandwidth to any location is zip – 1 bit/s or 10Gbit/s 
it is the same – civil engineering dominates all cost – even when you already 
have ducts in place
13) The cost of fibre is much less than copper for long lines and the local 
loop – there is no difference….
14) FTTH provides a future proofing, ease of operation, lowest cost and the 
ultimate flexibility
15) FTTC/K et all with electronics between switch and customer just adds 
unreliability operating costs
16) PONS – GPON AND BPON et al made sense when fibre was 25p/m but not any more!
17) Direct fibre is simple cheap and reliable and can be built with office 
grade EtherNet kit
18) Without FTTH we will never have effective 3G or 4G – we need these nodes in 
offices and homes
19) The UK will be frozen out of Cloud Computing without a bandwidth everywhere
20) Bandwidths like 1Gbit/s might look huge today but they will look puny 
tomorrow
21) In my lifetime fast was: 90, 110, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, 9600, 18,200, 
56,000, 64,000, 365 bit/s…,1, 2, 10, 20, 100, 200, 1000Mbit/s……why would anyone 
think this progression would stop or even slow down ??
22) No surprise then the leading industrial nations look upon the UK and its 
silly debates with pity and amusement whilst they get on with the job.
23) It is worth visiting China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Scandinavia, Jersey 
+++ to see the actuality and their plans to move up to 10Gbit/s to the home.
24) Over 35% of the UK population work on the move from home office/s, hotels. 
cars +++ and without bandwidth on the move they cannot achieve what is possible.
25) This country has its back to the financial wall and needs to focus on the 
GDP enabling technologies and those members of the population that can invoke 
+ve change to the benefit of all.
The very saddest thing for me:
26) I realised that all this was possible in 1979 when I completed my PhD – and 
then I demonstrated that FTTH worked and was cheaper than copper in1986. By the 
early 90

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[mike smith]

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:23 PM,  wrote:

> It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to
> Microsoft... Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills,
> etc.
>
> Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep
> (or be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?
>


Without phones, what does Nokia have?  (don't twit me about phones vs
smartphones, noone buys dumbphones anymore.)

-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

[OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

Hi all,

 

Now, I should start this by pointing out that it is looking like the
Coalition is going to win this election, so this little excerpt is unlikely
to change anything, but it’s always good to be informed.

 

This is an excerpt from Peter Cochrane, ex-head of British Telecom, who
essentially told the UK parliament how fibre to the node was one of the
worst mistakes they’ve ever made. Just about every country that implemented
fibre to the node now regrets that decision.

 

As far as governments are concerned, he said "…just getting them to realise
that they have been misinformed and need to start thinking about the needs
of a nation rather than the easy life desires of companies with outmoded
thinking."

 

>From Peter:

"The Problem With DUDES in Telco’s

1) They come infected with the limited thinking aligned with their business

2) And their business is founded on a 200 year legacy of copper and not
future IT needs

3) They have been used to a monopoly past

4) Like the bankers they have lost all sight of their full responsibilities
to the society in which they live

5) Their old technology choices and management systems mean they cannot
respond fast to change

6) BUT their was a bit of a golden time when their networks were transformed
by optical fibre linking cities

7) In BTs case this saw staffing fall from 242,000 to 110,000, and if they
did FTTH it would fall to 30,000 or less

8) AND THEN they did really dumb things like MPLS which is a concatenation
of decision errors

9) More equipment and interface types than necessary is really bad
engineering

10 And so is over 6000 buildings when you need less than 100 – and this is
copper v glass

Here are things telco’s real don’t get:

11) The world is not asymmetric

12) The cost go getting bandwidth to any location is zip – 1 bit/s or
10Gbit/s it is the same – civil engineering dominates all cost – even when
you already have ducts in place

13) The cost of fibre is much less than copper for long lines and the local
loop – there is no difference….

14) FTTH provides a future proofing, ease of operation, lowest cost and the
ultimate flexibility

15) FTTC/K et all with electronics between switch and customer just adds
unreliability operating costs

16) PONS – GPON AND BPON et al made sense when fibre was 25p/m but not any
more!

17) Direct fibre is simple cheap and reliable and can be built with office
grade EtherNet kit

18) Without FTTH we will never have effective 3G or 4G – we need these nodes
in offices and homes

19) The UK will be frozen out of Cloud Computing without a bandwidth
everywhere

20) Bandwidths like 1Gbit/s might look huge today but they will look puny
tomorrow

21) In my lifetime fast was: 90, 110, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, 9600, 18,200,
56,000, 64,000, 365 bit/s…,1, 2, 10, 20, 100, 200, 1000Mbit/s……why would
anyone think this progression would stop or even slow down ??

22) No surprise then the leading industrial nations look upon the UK and its
silly debates with pity and amusement whilst they get on with the job.

23) It is worth visiting China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Scandinavia, Jersey
+++ to see the actuality and their plans to move up to 10Gbit/s to the home.

24) Over 35% of the UK population work on the move from home office/s,
hotels. cars +++ and without bandwidth on the move they cannot achieve what
is possible.

25) This country has its back to the financial wall and needs to focus on
the GDP enabling technologies and those members of the population that can
invoke +ve change to the benefit of all.

The very saddest thing for me:

26) I realised that all this was possible in 1979 when I completed my PhD –
and then I demonstrated that FTTH worked and was cheaper than copper in1986.
By the early 90s BT had built the factories to build these systems and we
had commence roll out when the Thatcher government stopped the programme in
favour of getting in the USA cable companies – who by the way were not
allowed to supply telephony service in the USA! Our collaborators at that
time were the Japanese and Koreans….and they just kept going….looking at the
UK in amazement as we were left in the dust of time!

Now to my position – lest you think me some impractical academic. In my BT
life I was employed as:

1) A digger of trenches

2) An installer of poles, cables, telephones PBXs, exchanges

3) A maintainer of PBXs, switches, repeater and radio stations

4) A network designer and planner

5) A research engineer

6) A software writer

7) A designer of test equipment

8) Systems and networks designer

9) Head of Group a then Head of Section and then Head of Division for
Transmission Systems

10) Head of Research and then CTO

And since leaving BT life and experience has been even faster and even
broader…

 

I do hope this helps, Peter

 

 

Peter also has a couple of interesting articles on the future of the
internet:

FTTH The only solution, found here:
http://www.nexstdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/NExsT-2012-02.pdf

RE: Hidden/Missing button

[Nathan Chere]

>From the form's code view you can Find all references and find in the 
>.designer.cs / .designer.vb where the position is being initialised. Just 
>change it there, no extension needed.
Or from the form's Designer view you should be able to select the control using 
the combobox at the top of the Properties window and set the Top/Left values 
the same way.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 12:02 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: Hidden/Missing button

Anyone suggest a easy way to find a control on my winform and move it.  I have 
button that has gone missing...ie has location -9000,-7000

I have many controls on the form and was hoping there was a easy way to find 
it/highlight, maybe a extension?


Anthony Salerno
Melbourne StuffUps

Anthony




Click here to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

Hidden/Missing button

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

Anyone suggest a easy way to find a control on my winform and move it.  I
have button that has gone missing...ie has location -9000,-7000

 

I have many controls on the form and was hoping there was a easy way to find
it/highlight, maybe a extension?

 

 

Anthony Salerno

Melbourne StuffUps

 

Anthony

 

 

RE: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Ian Thomas]

Yes, I think it has the potential to be a good deal for all concerned (though 
some Finnish IT journalists have a contrary view, and appear a little bitter 
and twisted – eg, this one 

  from Forbes magazine). 

With that arrangement in the wind, don’t you think it would have been a great 
opportunity to give a Nokia Lumia 920 for all Australian TechEd participants? 
(cheap, at $350 from Kogan and others)

 

  _  

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of osjasonrobe...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 4:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

 

It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to Microsoft... 
Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills, etc.

 

Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep (or 
be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?

 

Jason Roberts
Journeyman Software Developer

Twitter: @robertsjason
Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com
Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts

 

From: Scott Barnes
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎3‎ ‎September‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎14‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet

 

Jaded? i'm more of that kid who finishes his meal and thinks "damn it.. i'm 
still hungry... might go ask for some more.."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEDDsBKSxU

 

Stephen you're just one of those kids at the table that's going "he should be 
grateful for this dang gruel... gruel be fine food damnz it be is.." 

 

That or that old woman yelling "you boy, back to your place" :)




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Stephen Price  wrote:

No, I said it. You added your own meaning. :)

On 03/09/2013 2:02 PM, "mike smith"  wrote:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stephen Price  wrote:

You sir, are burnt and jaded. Damaged even. 

 

:)

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Scott Barnes  wrote:

bwhahahah .. that ..nicely done...

 

Now lets set our watches for:

 

- Elop to make his move to CEO`ness

- Nokia Global marketing team (who have actual marketing talent) to be shut 
down and replaced by Barney & Friends style marketing ..

- New Lumia Microsoft Windows Professional 920.1 Release to Everyone but 
developers...

 

:D

 




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ian Thomas  wrote:

Announced yesterday. It will be all over the Australian ICT press in a couple 
of days L

 


  _  


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

 

 





 

-- 
Meski


   http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

 

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Rohan Fernando]

Yes, this is awesome news for both Nokia and Microsoft !
On 03/09/2013 6:26 PM,  wrote:

> It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to
> Microsoft... Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills,
> etc.
>
> Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep
> (or be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?
>
> Jason Roberts
> Journeyman Software Developer
>
> Twitter: @robertsjason
> Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com
> Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts
>
> *From:* Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 September 2013 3:14 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
>
> Jaded? i'm more of that kid who finishes his meal and thinks "damn it..
> i'm still hungry... might go ask for some more.."
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEDDsBKSxU
>
> Stephen you're just one of those kids at the table that's going "he should
> be grateful for this dang gruel... gruel be fine food damnz it be is.."
>
> That or that old woman yelling "you boy, back to your place" :)
>
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Stephen Price 
> wrote:
>
>> No, I said it. You added your own meaning. :)
>> On 03/09/2013 2:02 PM, "mike smith"  wrote:
>>
>>> You say that like it's a bad thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stephen Price >> > wrote:
>>>
 You sir, are burnt and jaded. Damaged even.

 :)


 On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Scott Barnes 
 wrote:

> bwhahahah .. that ..nicely done...
>
> Now lets set our watches for:
>
> - Elop to make his move to CEO`ness
> - Nokia Global marketing team (who have actual marketing talent) to be
> shut down and replaced by Barney & Friends style marketing ..
> - New Lumia Microsoft Windows Professional 920.1 Release to Everyone
> but developers...
>
> :D
>
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ian Thomas wrote:
>
>> Announced yesterday. It will be all over the Australian ICT press in
>> a couple of days L
>>
>> ** **
>> --
>>
>> **Ian Thomas**
>> Victoria Park, Western Australia
>>
>
>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Meski
>>>
>>>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>>>
>>> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
>>> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>>>
>>
>

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[osjasonroberts]

It’s pretty amazing that 32,000 people will transfer from Nokia to Microsoft... 
Could be a great cross-pollination of ideas, marketing skills, etc.


Wonder whether there will just be Microsoft Phone or whether they’ll keep (or 
be allowed to keep) the Lumia brand?



Jason Roberts
Journeyman Software Developer

Twitter: @robertsjason
Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com
Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts



From: Scott Barnes
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎3‎ ‎September‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎14‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet


Jaded? i'm more of that kid who finishes his meal and thinks "damn it.. i'm 
still hungry... might go ask for some more.."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEDDsBKSxU





Stephen you're just one of those kids at the table that's going "he should be 
grateful for this dang gruel... gruel be fine food damnz it be is.." 




That or that old woman yelling "you boy, back to your place" :)





---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com



On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Stephen Price  wrote:


No, I said it. You added your own meaning. :)



On 03/09/2013 2:02 PM, "mike smith"  wrote:


You say that like it's a bad thing.




On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stephen Price  wrote:


You sir, are burnt and jaded. Damaged even. 



:)






On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Scott Barnes  wrote:


bwhahahah .. that ..nicely done...



Now lets set our watches for:




- Elop to make his move to CEO`ness

- Nokia Global marketing team (who have actual marketing talent) to be shut 
down and replaced by Barney & Friends style marketing ..

- New Lumia Microsoft Windows Professional 920.1 Release to Everyone but 
developers...




:D






---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com




On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ian Thomas  wrote:







Announced yesterday. It will be all over the Australian ICT press in a couple 
of days L

 





Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia







-- 
Meski
















 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv



"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] Nokia sells smartphone business to Microsoft

[Scott Barnes]

Jaded? i'm more of that kid who finishes his meal and thinks "damn it.. i'm
still hungry... might go ask for some more.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEDDsBKSxU

Stephen you're just one of those kids at the table that's going "he should
be grateful for this dang gruel... gruel be fine food damnz it be is.."

That or that old woman yelling "you boy, back to your place" :)


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Stephen Price wrote:

> No, I said it. You added your own meaning. :)
> On 03/09/2013 2:02 PM, "mike smith"  wrote:
>
>> You say that like it's a bad thing.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Stephen Price 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You sir, are burnt and jaded. Damaged even.
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:
>>>
 bwhahahah .. that ..nicely done...

 Now lets set our watches for:

 - Elop to make his move to CEO`ness
 - Nokia Global marketing team (who have actual marketing talent) to be
 shut down and replaced by Barney & Friends style marketing ..
 - New Lumia Microsoft Windows Professional 920.1 Release to Everyone
 but developers...

 :D


 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com


 On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Ian Thomas wrote:

> Announced yesterday. It will be all over the Australian ICT press in a
> couple of days L
>
> ** **
> --
>
> **Ian Thomas**
> Victoria Park, Western Australia
>


>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Meski
>>
>>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>>
>> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
>> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>>
>