Re: [ozmidwifery] Any volunteers for a survey?
Happy to help Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Any volunteers for a survey? Hi Listers, Are there any midwives on the list who could spare 15 mins-1/2 hour to fill out a survey on issues affecting midwives today? We can do it via email or phone, I don't mind. My email is spahl at pobox dot une dot edu dot au Cheers, Sam. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 20/03/2007 8:07 AM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] hippies
I can think of one consummate 'hippy' at least that I would be proud to be classified with - Ina May Gaskin! Kelly - you may not dress like a hippy but you sure sound like one - and I mean that as a compliment :-) The 'hippies' gave us much more than psychedelic drugs, great music and colorful clothes, they gave us the idea of challenging, changing and trying to improve the world. Long live hippies I say! Love and peace, Sue (who is old enough to have worn flowers in her hair, maybe not any more, but still a hippy at heart)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Privately funded birth centres
Hi Kate I must have missed the first post here - just got Denise's reply. I was one of the Swan Districts Birth Centre team when it began. The reasons given for it's eventual closure were many and varied but boiled down to: Insufficient consumer use- this was sad and I'm sure that had there been greater public demand/awareness we might still be in business. Those that used our FBC loved it, but our exclusion and transfer criteria policies meant a high transfer-out rate, also just the one room meant that if 2 FBC ladies were labouring at the same time it was 'first come first serve'. A large proportion of transfers were for this reason. So our numbers were only about 70 births per year, but we handled all of the ante-natal care for those who chose FBC or our GP/MW Public ANC option. Expense, and what was seen (by management) as waste of resources in use of experienced midwives, sometimes 'doubling-up' of services i.e. home visiting, childbirth classes. cars, mobile phones (Oh the trouble we had trying to get more than ONE mobile phone in the beginning!!) We were also on a higher wage scale to allow for the unsociable hours of on-call and nights. Difficulty in recruiting midwives to the system of on-call within a team of only 3 midwives, trying to recruit from within staff already employed, many of whom were not interested in this sort of work/system. It was hard to take time off when ther was no one to relieve! I worked for the fist 18 months without a holiday because there were no replacements - also meant you could not be sick! Pressure from the Obs who did not approve and who were not willing to 'pick up the disasters that the m/w's and GP's could not handle' - never have been 'team players' our guys!! And basically and bottom line (IMHO) was that it was established after sitting empty for many years while fighting to overcome the objections to its use (a bit like our bath on labour ward is right now - still not allowed to use the blessed thing - 6 months down and counting!!) and that management never really wanted it to succeed, we were under threat of closure almost from the first birth. They want to run an obstetric unit and have no place for GP or midwifery-led options - despite all they say to the contrary. We fought long and hard, and tried some different options to overcome the above issues but eventually lost our unit, and sadly our lovely GPs, most of whom no longer have any outlet to practice obstetrics at all which is a great loss to our local women. The FBC is now used as the doctors' private flat for when they are here on their 24hour (highly lucrative) stints. For a while we were able to use it as a private place to care for women/families undergoing pregnancy loss, the doctor on duty would move out and these families really appreciated this service. However the Obs have even taken this away and refuse to go sleep anywhere else when the situation occurs, even though there are very acceptable alternatives open to them. I for one still mourn its loss - although have to say that it was by no means a 'perfect' system and there are many better ways to organise mid-led care. Met one of 'my' FBC mums and 11 year-old boy last week, she was visiting a friend and new bub, and I still remembered her name, her son's name and her surname (for me quite amazing as I have a big problem with names:-)) even remembered where she had lived! That was the difference - we really knew our FBC ladies and had a good time with them and their births. As for Mandurah - I have no idea but would imagine a similar story - anyone out there who was part of that team? Regards Sue PS email off list if you want more details [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Privately funded birth centres Dear Kate Are you in WA I can put you in touch with various people who can give you some background to the closure of Swan and Mandurah birth Centres here is my off list contact Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Kate reynolds To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Privately funded birth centres Hi all, Can anyone tell me whether there are any privately funded birth centres in Australia? If there is, who manages the births and how are the clients billed? Are they shared care with GP/OBs and do the Drs still attend and therefore bill for the birth? Or are the GP/Obs paid an on-call fee just in case??? Can anyone also tell me exactly why the Swan Districts and Mandurah Birth Centres
Re: [ozmidwifery] assistance required.
Mary - have you checked your deleted items folder and recycle bin? Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] assistance required. My ozmid email folder seems to have disappeared. I don't know what key I accidently pressed to make this happen or how to retrieve or find the folder. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks, MM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.18/662 - Release Date: 31/01/2007 3:16 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:02 AM
Re: [ozmidwifery] For Sue
Don't know if you mean me Amy, I work at Swans but have not worked in the valley centre, nor recently restorative (thankfully!) However there are 2 or 3 other Sue's at Swans though they do not s*bscr*be to this list. Where do you normally work? Sue - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] For Sue Hi Sue, Now I have to ask.are you the Sue at swans who I know from a few shifts we did together at the swan valley centre and recently on restorative? It is a very small world indeed and that would make me smile if it were so, after the whinge I had about my most recent birth experience to you a couple of weeks ago (if my guess is right). Amy -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
Lynne, could you please send me one too? Thanks Sue [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi Helen When I get to work tomorrow, I will send you the reference list from my recently updated (Oct 2006) warm water immersion in labour and birth learning package for midwives. This may be helpful - re publishing our figures - this is a goal for 2007! Warm regards, and a happy and fruitful 2007! - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi Lynne Can you point me to some research that I can use to support the safety of waterbirth. I have just read the following reference in the SA Women's and Children's Waterbirth Policy as sent in by Fiona to Ozmid as follows: There is no evidence that perinatal mortality and morbidity, including admissions to special care nurseries for babies born into a warm water environment, is significantly different to babies born out of water (Geissbuehler et al 2004; Gilbert Tookey 1999). but wondered whether you had any other references to call on. Also wondering if you had thought about publishing Selangor's own findings? It would be a great contribution to hospitals trying to weigh up the risk benefits of waterbirth. There still seems to be such fear surrounding the whole issue in the majority of the hospital system that it would be great to have some positive local experiences/research to quote. Thanks in advance. Helen - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi Mary At Selangor we - midwives, obstetricians and paediatricians - have 'officially' supported women for waterbirth since Feb 1998. Our rate is 35% of vaginal births and over 1600 babies have been waterborn since we opened. We will continue to do so as it has benefits for women, their babies and is safe. Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi everyone, I know this question has been asked before, but I can't remember the answer. Do we have any maternity units, birth centres etc who officially do waterbirth? I know homebirthers do, but I want to know about institutions. Thanks, MM __ NOD32 1933 (20061221) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
I agree Andrea and confess I was a little surprised to see the N2O2 in place as I also thought that water immersion was preferable and an option to medication. Yes, there is a scavenger (I think!!) As we are still not allowed to use the bath all this is yet to be tried out. Thanks for the info Sue - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hello Sue, I hope that your bathrooms also have a ventilation unit and scavenger units for the N2O2 - this is dangerous stuff to use in unventilated areas - see this for more info: http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/andrea27.html More to the point - while I know that it is common in the UK for almost every woman (in the bath or even giving birth at home) to use nitrous oxide, I always question its use, especially when water and baths are freely available as a safer alternative. The provision of this gas sends a powerful message that not even warm water will ease the pain and that a little something may/will also be needed. When will we (midwives, supporters) stop sending these messages that encourage dependence on drugs for labouring women? Regards Andrea At 11:17 PM 26/12/2006, you wrote: Just a fairly good size ordinary bath Mary, but quite deep, not what we would have chosen had we midwives been allowed to have any input into the upgrades. The new renovations are good on the whole - all our birth rooms now have a good size en-suite shower and toilet, and the bathroom (when we can use it) has piped N2O2. The ward bathrooms are new also and a great improvement on the old ones! Happy New year to all Sue - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mary Murphy To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:27 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Sue, what sort of bath is it? A proper one with good depth and width or a larger ordinary bath? MM -- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Saturday, 23 December 2006 11:56 PM To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi Amy Yes, that's the place. The policy is written, now apparently awaiting executive approval, then no doubt they'll find another reason to prevent us using the bath. Watch this space!! I'm tempted to wrap the door up in red tape as that is what seems to be happening. sigh Sue - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]adamnamy To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Sue, Can I ask, do you work at Swans? I saw in the local paper that they have upgraded the facilities and have installed and new bath. It would be a bit mean (not to mention misleading) to market it and then tell women they can't use it. Amy -- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 9:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Mary, you may also be interested to know that our brand new bath (where I work) is yet to be used because we -apparently - have to have a policy in place before women are allowed to use it for labour! Even though no other hospital seems to have seen this as a necessary requirement. Births in this pristine piece of porcelain are verbotten, but we will utilise the KEMH policy for 'unplanned' waterbirths. However we are still wondering when the powers that be will actually risk letting our labouring women get into the bath. It's been sitting there unused for some months now!! Merry Christmas to you too, and to all on the list Sue - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mary Murphy To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Thank you all for your swift replies. I am supporting midwife who, as a midwife in homebirth, did lots of water births and was recently present at a water birth in a hospital where SHE supported the midwife who supported a woman's wishes for a water birth. As we have only 'accidental' water birth policies in WA hospitals, these midwives are being 'hauled over the coals' for not making the woman get out of the water to birth. Lots of intimidation going on. This will all help. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Mary M -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
Just a fairly good size ordinary bath Mary, but quite deep, not what we would have chosen had we midwives been allowed to have any input into the upgrades. The new renovations are good on the whole - all our birth rooms now have a good size en-suite shower and toilet, and the bathroom (when we can use it) has piped N2O2. The ward bathrooms are new also and a great improvement on the old ones! Happy New year to all Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:27 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Sue, what sort of bath is it? A proper one with good depth and width or a larger ordinary bath? MM -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Saturday, 23 December 2006 11:56 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Hi Amy Yes, that's the place. The policy is written, now apparently awaiting executive approval, then no doubt they'll find another reason to prevent us using the bath. Watch this space!! I'm tempted to wrap the door up in red tape as that is what seems to be happening. sigh Sue - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Sue, Can I ask, do you work at Swans? I saw in the local paper that they have upgraded the facilities and have installed and new bath. It would be a bit mean (not to mention misleading) to market it and then tell women they can't use it. Amy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 9:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Mary, you may also be interested to know that our brand new bath (where I work) is yet to be used because we -apparently - have to have a policy in place before women are allowed to use it for labour! Even though no other hospital seems to have seen this as a necessary requirement. Births in this pristine piece of porcelain are verbotten, but we will utilise the KEMH policy for 'unplanned' waterbirths. However we are still wondering when the powers that be will actually risk letting our labouring women get into the bath. It's been sitting there unused for some months now!! Merry Christmas to you too, and to all on the list Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Thank you all for your swift replies. I am supporting midwife who, as a midwife in homebirth, did lots of water births and was recently present at a water birth in a hospital where SHE supported the midwife who supported a woman's wishes for a water birth. As we have only 'accidental' water birth policies in WA hospitals, these midwives are being 'hauled over the coals' for not making the woman get out of the water to birth. Lots of intimidation going on. This will all help. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Mary M -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please...
I can't see that the talipes is significant for the birth Kelly. Very likely it is 'positional' talipes in any case, which is not uncommon and due to the baby's position in the womb, not structural deformity, which will resolve usually without treatment, but it would not make any difference to the birth process. If there is any reason this should impact on the method of birth can someone enlighten me/us? Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:06 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... Sorry I should have clarified. Would a breech baby with talipes have more problems than a normal breech? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... The moxa sticks close to the acupuncture points on the little toes has a good success rate too, or perhaps a combo of both.. From: Diane Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:12:59 +1100 Ask the woman to talk to her baby while laying head down on an ironing board that is leaning against the couch. Baby needs to know that there is a better way out and that she needs to uncross her feet and turn around. If she really relaxes her uterus that gives baby more room to move as well. Have her partner talk to the baby as well give it instructions on turning around. Many of you may laugh but there is a huge success rate talking to babies inutero. I know when I have turned (actually the babies do the turning) breech babies using hypnosis (simply relaxation of the body and no who-do-do-do) that the babies respond with arms and feet bulges everywhere as they are on the move, quite a funny sight. The babies are listening so ONLY positive talking and positive birth stories. Ask her not to listen to the war stories out there as they often create fear and tension in the mum and the bub. regards Di Gardner - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... OK, now I have a question for you - breech and talipes. A woman has just said this: Scan came back all fine, but bubs feet are in the birth canal area and as she has talipes they think with her feet being crossed over she may have trouble moving them out of where they are. We'll just have to wait a few weeks and see. Any suggestions/comments I can pass on? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly Zantey Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 3:12 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... Thank-you! And thanks to everyone in advance, I won't reply individually to everyone on the list to save clogging up emails, I will reply privately. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/birth/breech-birth-in-australia - I shall have something up soon, its not live yet, creating it now. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Rachael Austin Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:52 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... Ian Etherington OB/Gyn works out of the Mater Hospital in Rockhampton and will support (even encourage) women to birth breech, so long as it isn't a footling. Merry Christmas, Rachael - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... I am compiling a list of Obs/carers who will support a woman for vaginal breech birth as I am seeing more breech women pop up and think they have no
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
Hi Amy Yes, that's the place. The policy is written, now apparently awaiting executive approval, then no doubt they'll find another reason to prevent us using the bath. Watch this space!! I'm tempted to wrap the door up in red tape as that is what seems to be happening. sigh Sue - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Sue, Can I ask, do you work at Swans? I saw in the local paper that they have upgraded the facilities and have installed and new bath. It would be a bit mean (not to mention misleading) to market it and then tell women they can't use it. Amy -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 9:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Mary, you may also be interested to know that our brand new bath (where I work) is yet to be used because we -apparently - have to have a policy in place before women are allowed to use it for labour! Even though no other hospital seems to have seen this as a necessary requirement. Births in this pristine piece of porcelain are verbotten, but we will utilise the KEMH policy for 'unplanned' waterbirths. However we are still wondering when the powers that be will actually risk letting our labouring women get into the bath. It's been sitting there unused for some months now!! Merry Christmas to you too, and to all on the list Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Thank you all for your swift replies. I am supporting midwife who, as a midwife in homebirth, did lots of water births and was recently present at a water birth in a hospital where SHE supported the midwife who supported a woman's wishes for a water birth. As we have only 'accidental' water birth policies in WA hospitals, these midwives are being 'hauled over the coals' for not making the woman get out of the water to birth. Lots of intimidation going on. This will all help. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Mary M Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
Mary, you may also be interested to know that our brand new bath (where I work) is yet to be used because we -apparently - have to have a policy in place before women are allowed to use it for labour! Even though no other hospital seems to have seen this as a necessary requirement. Births in this pristine piece of porcelain are verbotten, but we will utilise the KEMH policy for 'unplanned' waterbirths. However we are still wondering when the powers that be will actually risk letting our labouring women get into the bath. It's been sitting there unused for some months now!! Merry Christmas to you too, and to all on the list Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Thank you all for your swift replies. I am supporting midwife who, as a midwife in homebirth, did lots of water births and was recently present at a water birth in a hospital where SHE supported the midwife who supported a woman's wishes for a water birth. As we have only 'accidental' water birth policies in WA hospitals, these midwives are being 'hauled over the coals' for not making the woman get out of the water to birth. Lots of intimidation going on. This will all help. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Mary M -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] emails not recieved
I responded to this and it hasn't appeared in my inbox - as an example!!! Sue --- Original Message - From: jayne/jesse To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:28 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] emails not recieved I know there have been complaints (and suggestions to fix it!) about emails sent to the list not being received by everyone. It seems to have peaked for me now. From what I can see from replies to original emails (the originals that I never received), I'm only receiving approximately 50% of emails sent to the list. I'm guessing this would be even less because it's quite likely I'm not receiving some of the replies to the original emails as well! They are not going into my spam folder. I really think this is now beyond 'gremlins' in the system. I often also will receive a reply to an original email many hours BEFORE I'll receive the original email. It has become difficult to become involved in an ongoing discussion when you don't know about half of what is being said. Can I ask, does anyone actually think that they receive nearly all the emails sent to the list without a problem? Regards Jayne -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] emails not recieved
Me too. Exactly the same thing. Sue - Original Message - From: jayne/jesse To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:28 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] emails not recieved I know there have been complaints (and suggestions to fix it!) about emails sent to the list not being received by everyone. It seems to have peaked for me now. From what I can see from replies to original emails (the originals that I never received), I'm only receiving approximately 50% of emails sent to the list. I'm guessing this would be even less because it's quite likely I'm not receiving some of the replies to the original emails as well! They are not going into my spam folder. I really think this is now beyond 'gremlins' in the system. I often also will receive a reply to an original email many hours BEFORE I'll receive the original email. It has become difficult to become involved in an ongoing discussion when you don't know about half of what is being said. Can I ask, does anyone actually think that they receive nearly all the emails sent to the list without a problem? Regards Jayne -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] testing
Had 3 or 4 yesterday Mary but none over the weekend Sue Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] testing Just testing. No mail for nearly a week. MM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 27/11/2006 6:09 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord clamping and waterbirth
Lieve Just want to say that I love both your wisdom and your wonderfully original English! Heart whisper sounds so much nicer than 'murmer' :-) Love Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord clamping and waterbirth you are very right. The baby is in charge and decides when to shut the doors to the cord :-). It is the heart of the baby that pumpes the blood to the placenta. I don't hav prove of this but I think that waiting for the baby to decide to close the cord is the reason why I never had a baby with a heartwisper the first week as often happens in practices with early clamping. Lieve .- Oorspronkelijk bericht - .Van: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .Verzonden: vrijdag, november 17, 2006 09:54 AM .Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au .Onderwerp: RE: [ozmidwifery] Cord clamping and waterbirth . .Lieve writes: . .Yesterday I attended a waterbirth and the cord continued pulsing another 15 .min after the birth of the placenta, 20 min after the birth of the baby. . . . .This can occur as a rebound pulse from the baby's heart beat. Obviously it .can't be from a placenta pumping more blood to the baby, because there is no .mechanism for this to happen. Am I right? MM . . -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/537 - Release Date: 17/11/2006 5:56 PM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc
- Original Message - From: Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc Ps: what is pr and TOPs? Cheers PR = Per RectumTOP= Termination of Pregnancy Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 14/11/2006 3:58 PM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus placenta
I'm finding thisreally interesting because in actively managed 3rd stages (in my experience) it is hard to get blood from a placenta this long afterwards, I find it clots in the vessels if I leave it too long, I wouldn't fancy the chances of collecting it an hour or more later. Is there some reason why this doesn't happen with physiological 3rd stages, which are of course the best way to go for Rh-ve women, or is this specific to Lotus births, I mean, does the fact that the placenta remains attached cause it to take longer to congeal? Sue - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus placenta Hi Mary, In the lotus births I have been atwith Rh negative women so far,I haven't hadany problems collecting enoughblood with a needle syringe. The pathology services have always been able to perform the tests with the amount I've been able to putin a 4 ml tube. Hope that helps, Andrea Bilcliff - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] lotus placenta Hello wise women, I need advice about a lotus birth, (not new to me) who is also Rh neg. I need to get enough blood for group and coombes. In your experience, is there sufficient blood in the placental vessels after a physiological 3rd stge ? What is the best way to hndle this? I have had lots of Lotus Placentae but not with RH neg. women. Thanks, MM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.3/530 - Release Date: 11/11/2006 6:53 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth
Hi Kristen Yes you can do EFM for twins. Most machines will record 2 heartbeats, commonly a scalp electrode is placed on twin 1 and external monitor on twin 2. How long between twins? In hospital situations it is usual to see fairly rapid delivery (extraction) of twin 2 after no. 1 usually only a few minutes- Obs seem to be very uncomfortable with waiting :-) It is usually baby, baby then both placentae together - there should be no attempt to deliver the placenta by CCT until both babies are born, and if physiological 3rd stage happening the placentae would normally come together after both bubs. They are often fused or joined. I have never seen ECVused for twin 2 - most obs will reach in and perform a breech extraction - i.e. grasp a leg - without waiting to see if bub is going to descend head or bum first.The attendant should palpate the abdomen to ascertain the lie of twin 2 following first birth. In hospital twin births the woman would be given epidural this is mainly to allow for 'manipulation' of twin 2. Hope this helps - this is not normal physiological birth of twins but rather 'normal' hospital management - if they 'allow' vaginal birth in the first place! And I cannot imagine any ob of my long aquaintance 'allowing' physiological 3rd stage with twins :-) Justines twin birth story - now there's an entirely different matter - tell her Justine! Sue - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth I have a couple of questions re twins: Can you do EFM with twins ? Or are they usually monitored with the doppler? How long is is typically between twins birth? Is it usually baby-placenta, baby-placenta or can it be baby-baby-placenta-placenta? If ECV is needed to help Twin 2 - does the mother need any medication for this? Big thanks, Kristin See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.18/506 - Release Date: 30/10/2006
[ozmidwifery] medication question
Dear List-wives I have a new mum who normally takes Dexamphetamine for ADD (adult) and whose baby was quite growth retarded, probably as a result but no-one is saying that for sure. She has been off meds for a few weeks and is breast feeding her little bub, really wants to continue but is not doing too well off the meds and is getting quite scared of a repeat of PND that she had last time. Mimms wasn't greatly helpful apart from discouraging use in lactation and pregnancy - but as she had been using it in pregnancy anyway Do any of you have knowledge or experience of this med and effects in B/F? TIA Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)
I don't know what the procedure for consent is at KEMH but all women there have cord blood gasses done routinely. During a workshop on CTG's held at KEMH last year I questioned what happens when a woman wants physiological 3rd stage but the tutor seemed unable to comprehend the issue and would not give me a satisfactory answer. I feel that the vast majority of women are unaware of the benefits of physiological 3rd stage and do not even consider this as part of their birth choices, I discuss this ante natally whenever possible with women who seem interested and occasionally they do request phys 3rd stage, but the docs argue against it and often frighten them out of this choice. In my experience, most women give very little thought to the placenta at all - if they do consider it, it is to ask about donating the blood (not an option in WA at the moment) or arranging to have it saved by one of the companies currently doing this. They do not seem to realise that it would be of benefit to their babies to recieve this at birth. Sue - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long) Thanks Wendy that is what I thought. So why is it that women are not asked if cord blood gases can be taken? Is this not the perfect opportunity to shift the focus? I never knew it was being done, nor have my clients. Why not? Is it not perceived to be important for the woman to know simply because she never sees it? Perplexed, Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/477 - Release Date: 16/10/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference
What a lovely story Dianne, thanks for sharing it Do you know if anyone is teaching this in WA? Sue - Original Message - From: Diane Gardner To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference It is quite some time since I wrote on this list and after reading some of the posts recently it has made me really appreciate the job I am doing. I KNOW my job is encouraging women to change the way they give birth, again trusting their body's ability to just do it. Sorry this post is so long. I am not a midwife but part of childbirth education teaching the Australian calmbirth program. Previously I taught HypnoBirthing but becausethe USAhad such a stranglehold on what wecouldn't change to teach for Australia,the opportunity came alongto be a part of the Australian program so Igrabbed it knowing what a difference the previous program was already making and with an Australian influence it was even better. I also know many of you midwives out there are seeing a difference in the women who are coming in to birth their babies using these relaxation programs. I have beendoing a small study whichI only started a couple of months ago and of the last 17 couples who have birthed only one had medical intervention. They all listened to and worked with their bodies beautifully supported by their partners who also learn and appreciate how women birth. They also stood up to the system and said this is what I want. MY way! Only a week ago I returned home from Birsbane after a conferenceand one of my clients rang me to let me know she was in labour with her 3rd baby. Her first 2 births were horrendous. During her first birth she was losing controland her assigned midwife said "you think this is bad, wait until the pain is so bad you will beBEGGING us to help you, the only thing that will get rid of this posterior labour pain is an epidural". So guess what she lost it totally there and then. During her second birth she had a wonderful and supportive midwife for the first couple of hours and then guess what the SAME midwifecame on dutyagain. This time she said "it would be better for everyone this time if you just have the epidural right now".My clientwent into immediate panick and the same scenario happened again. When she was pregnant again she knew she HAD todo something different. Nature wastelling her to listen and this time she was. She rang in total fear of it repeating again and booked in for classes. When she spoke to me on the phone at the start of this 3rd labour she had been to the races and after going to the toilet realised she had, hada show. When she returned home she rang and said I am in labour but it is so different, it isn't painful, it is all in my backbut I am breathing through the contractions easily. She knew her baby was posterior again so I let her know the postions to help encourage baby to rotate and alsotold her I would be around if she needed me for support. Two hours later her hubby rang and asked me to come into the hospital because a midwife who had relieved her assigned midwife to go to tea had bounced her and she was getting fearful of the same scencario being set up again. I arrived at the hospital 30 mins later to have missed the birth by 5 minutes. When her assigned midwife came back into the room and realised what had happened she immediately went to my client and whispered in her ear " listen to your body, it knows what to do, just let it do it". From that moment there was no more panick, she was back on track. She said she just kept thinking to herself "my body knows what to do, keep out of it's way and let it do its job". Her baby floated into the world calmly and peacefully. When I walked into the room she looked at me beaming and said " I DID IT and it was so wonderful, my body is so wonderful". I NEVER had a doubt she could do it because we have birthed babies for thousands of years and our bodies just KNOW how to do it. She videoed the birth and it IS wonderful. So many times over the last five years I have been kicked in the face, riduculed, accused ofinterferring with "hospital policy" by telling women they have rightsANDfor daring to teach a program that encourages women to look back within and get back in touch with their natural ability to birth. In my early days I was shunned in the birthing room because others wanted to just take control of women's births and how dare I stand there and support a woman's rights. I stood my ground! You midwives out there ARE making a difference, please don't ever give up. I will never give up my support for women to have the births they deserve to have and having you wonderful women there fighting from within the
Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbye
Hi Sadie I too would be sorry to lose your voice from this list. We have 'spoken' and worked together on a few occasions and I know that you are as frustrated as the majority of us who work within the restrictions of hospital policy, and that you are a good, caring, experiencedmidwife and teacher. We know that policy is not always 'right' We know that we should argue every point with evidence based research We know that we compromise our beliefs often to get agood outcome within our restrictions. These points have recently been illustrated on this list by several people quite eloquently. What I sometimes feel that SOME on this list forget is the extreme pressure we, in hospitals,work under and the difficulty of winning any arguements against doctors and policies. Last time I did it, it cost me a tooth due to the stress - I actually cracked a molar by night time jaw clenching! I won a point but did not change the doctor's point of view in the slightest, with the result that it is now even harder for me to 'get away' with anything 'radical' in the eyes of the management, and with this doctor, who previously viewed me as an amusing but harmless eccentric (I think!) now is much quicker to take over. He holds the cards! If there were a way I could leave the system and still earn the necessary wages to live on I would, as i believe many would, but then where would that leave women in the hospital system, as Sadie rightly says? Many of us DO work hard and stubbornly against the medical monopoly and resist these stupid policies, we do not yet do routine cord blood gasses for example but I know it is only a matter of time before the decision is made that we should, due largely to the fear of litigation under which most obstetric policies are made. I, for one, will argue against it when it comes - but doubt that I will win. We try to inform and educate women to take ownership and responsibility for their bodies but sadly all too few are interested in doing so. If the women were more interested in researching and insisting on different options then it would happen - but (and I know that not all of you agree) most of the women I see just don't care as long as someone gets the baby out in one piece. Believe me it is refreshing to meet a woman who questions her care and I rejoice in these ones and encourage them to get political. I agree that this list should be respectful of each other's opinions and situations. We need support not criticism. Sue - Original Message - From: Sadie To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:16 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Goodbye The time has come for me to leave the ozmidwifery mailing list. I have been an active member for 7 years and have made some fabulous friends and have shared the views, advice friendship of some incredible women who are as passionate about midwifery as myself. Unfortunately the criticism and 'back-biting'constantly being hurledby some members of this list towards their colleagues has become unacceptable to me - I have enough to contend with on a daily basis at work, without continuing tofight the battleon my own computer in my home. I choose to work in a high-risk hospital environment because these women also deserve good midwifery care, I need to pick my battles carefully. There are far more important issues for me, in my circumstances, than trying to make a stand against a policy regarding blood gases, that is firmly entrenched. Seems to me that if we cannot nuture our colleagues - how on earth can we nuture the women we care for? As midwives we are all different, working in different environments but surely with the one aim?To emotionally and spiritually walk alongside women of all ages, races, classes and social status, as they travel the childbirth path. This holdsthe primary place inmy midwifery agenda. See ya, Sadie "Laughter is the brush that sweeps away the cobwebs of the heart." No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 13/10/2006
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Testing - are mails going missing again? I posted one 3 times and it has not appeared in my in box, also very few posts these past 3 days Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] List problems
Thanks all I do send to ozmidwifery - its just titled asMidlist in my address book The 3 messages I tried to send were responses to Melissa's post and I always hit 'reply' not 'reply all'. When it didn't appear I tried forwarding it x2 to 'midlist' but it never arrived - oh well I have replied to her personally now. Will check my spam folder as you suggest Andrea. The wonders of cyberspace! Sue - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:19 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] List problems Susan Your message came to my inbox but not to my ozmidwifery sub folder. The differences I can see is that all the ozmid messages have [ozmidwifery] in the subject heading and yours doesn't, it just says (no subject header). And your messagesays To: midwifery list and my ozmid messages say To: ozmidwifery @acegraphics.com.au. I have had thishappen to me and tried to send the message two ways to figure it out. Either go to your address book and create mail to ozmidwifery or reply to someone else's from the list. I think I had more success with creating mail straight from my address book. It isn't always a problem so I never understand why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Go figure! Good luck Helen - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 12:38 AM Subject: (No subject header) Testing - are mails going missing again? I posted one 3 times and it has not appeared in my in box, also very few posts these past 3 days Sue__ NOD32 1.1795 (20061009) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/469 - Release Date: 9/10/2006
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[ozmidwifery] slow labours
Lisa - you wrote: I have not ever had to wait 12/15 mins from birth of a head to birth of a body. Physiology tells us that the uterus clamps down immediately after birth. I don't think you'd wait another 12/15 mins for the uterus to contract after the birth and that's if you don't do an active third stage. With respect, I have known labours in which the contractions never got closer than 8-10 minutes, or more often, which start out strong and then peter out. I remember one of 8 minute conts with a biggish baby, the delay between head and shoulders was quite nerve-wracking, and then the shoulders did not come easily with the next contraction soeven longer delay and manouvers needed to deliver shoulders. After which she still did not contract well and had a PPH, despite active 3rdstage (IM synto) her labour had been spontaneous and progressed well despite the long spaces between conts. Which is why I am uneasy with long delays between contractions, especially if they are getting less effective. Of course my experience is mostly hospital based where recourse to synto is the first option and I am verykeen to learn from my home birth colleagues as to how this situation pans out in home births. I have had experience in birth centre but our guidelines meant transfer into hosp in these situations, I do recall some very long labours before transfer though! Thanks for the input from all Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
Along the theme of slow labours: I just had a labouring mum with very slow contractions today. She came in in the night thinking she'd SROM'd but hadnot - was niggling all night with backache. This morning I reassessed and found intact forewaters and a posterior cervix which was a really stretchy multips os which could open easily to 6-7 cms. I encouraged food and walking/shower etc and she very reluctantly walked a bit but wanted to lie down instead despite the chronic backache. Explained that bub was OP and she needed good contractions to bring the head down but she was very half-hearted about it. Even gave her an enema!! (her choice) After a few hours I re-examined and did an ARM as she just wanted to get on with it - plus the OB would have come along and done that soon if I had not! Cx now up to 8cms and better applied, still OP. 3 hours later and still only contracting +-12minutely, we discussed synto as she was by now really 'over it' and refusing to get active. 30 minutes of synto at very low dose and we had a 9lb baby who rotated toOAin the final few minutes. She was drinking and eating as desired but was not keen to take much of either. I am not comfortable with weak, infrequent or no contractionsas it heightens the risk of uterine inertia post birth, shoulder dystocia and a compromised baby - The docs maintain that the fetal Ph drops (I think) 0.5 per minute sitting at crowning, which they learned at the obstetric emergencies seminar, so i also know that any of our obs will get very edgy if there is prolonged crowning. Sometimes you have to compromise what would be normal physiology with what you know would happen if obs took over. I wondered how I would have managed this in a home situaion, probably encouraged her to rest until things were established, and left alone - but we were not at home! So I agree with the points raised about hospital midwifery care and empathise with all who work withing similar restrictions. How would a homebirth midwife support this sort of labour? Sue -- Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions Hi Di, This reminds me of scenario that a cousin of mine had with her second bub. Her contractions basically stopped I think when she was fully and she did end up having some synto to get them going again. But what had happened was that the midwife (who said she could have bitten her tongue as soon as she said it!) said to her that she would probably have to work hard as she had a good size baby on board. My cousin said that she became really frightened and the contractions just died. I wonder if there was anything holding your woman back? Although you said she seemed excited and focussed. As far as her pushing without contractions, I think if you have a fetal bradycardia and possibly a compromised bub then it becomes priority to get the baby out. It might just be head compression, but it might not. Cheers Michelle diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wise women, Just want to throw this out there for comments/suggestions. Had a birth the other night that was a bit worrying at the time. Good outcome lovely 4200g baby girl. Mum (primip)had SROM at clinic visit at 830 am then went home and established at about 1630, came in contracting moderately at 1900hrs was 4-5cm , I took over her care at 2000hrs. Lovely very motivated mum, well read and attended classes, well supported by partner and mum and mum in law and sister. Ctx hotted up to 3-4 minutely and stronger, was drinking well but had a few small vomits, and next UA showed small ketones and SG 1.030, but was still drinking well and ctx remained strong and regular so didnt want to put in a cannula. VE at 1130 showed an anterior lip, still a bit thick. Wasnt able to wee again after that but head was well down. Was actively pushing with some ctx at 0100 with signs of full dilatation (nice purple line!) Contractions really started to drop off, became about 4minutely and only about 20secs of good strength. Mum getting quite tired at this stage but more focussed and excited than earlier. At this point I did put up some fluids as I thought with the ctx dropping off combined with her fatigue she might need some hydration. She pushed babe up to on view (birth stool) but made little more progress over next 20mins or so. Fluids running in flat out but no sign of increased ctx. Babes HR started to drop to around 80 which at first had good recovery , so I wasn't too worried but after a while were staying there for a minute or so each time before climbing back to 100. At this point with encouragement she managed to push bub up to almost crowning and that was the last of
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
with nothing else wrong just means her body was taking time getting ready. After the ARM that's a different ball game. Shoulder dystocia isn't caused by weak contractions it's the bony shoulder against the bony pelvis so the shoulders are unable to move and maybe rotate into the optimal position for birth. Nothing heightens uterine inertia after birth like an unnecessary ARM and pushing her body with IV Syntocinon. Possibly the best way to handle the situation would have been to send the woman home after the first examination so she was safely out of any medical intervention. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions Along the theme of slow labours: I just had a labouring mum with very slow contractions today. She came in in the night thinking she'd SROM'd but hadnot - was niggling all night with backache. This morning I reassessed and found intact forewaters and a posterior cervix which was a really stretchy multips os which could open easily to 6-7 cms. I encouraged food and walking/shower etc and she very reluctantly walked a bit but wanted to lie down instead despite the chronic backache. Explained that bub was OP and she needed good contractions to bring the head down but she was very half-hearted about it. Even gave her an enema!! (her choice) After a few hours I re-examined and did an ARM as she just wanted to get on with it - plus the OB would have come along and done that soon if I had not! Cx now up to 8cms and better applied, still OP. 3 hours later and still only contracting +-12minutely, we discussed synto as she was by now really 'over it' and refusing to get active. 30 minutes of synto at very low dose and we had a 9lb baby who rotated toOAin the final few minutes. She was drinking and eating as desired but was not keen to take much of either. I am not comfortable with weak, infrequent or no contractionsas it heightens the risk of uterine inertia post birth, shoulder dystocia and a compromised baby - The docs maintain that the fetal Ph drops (I think) 0.5 per minute sitting at crowning, which they learned at the obstetric emergencies seminar, so i also know that any of our obs will get very edgy if there is prolonged crowning. Sometimes you have to compromise what would be normal physiology with what you know would happen if obs took over. I wondered how I would have managed this in a home situaion, probably encouraged her to rest until things were established, and left alone - but we were not at home! So I agree with the points raised about hospital midwifery care and empathise with all who work withing similar restrictions. How would a homebirth midwife support this sort of labour? Sue -- Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions Hi Di, This reminds me of scenario that a cousin of mine had with her second bub. Her contractions basically stopped I think when she was fully and she did end up having some synto to get them going again. But what had happened was that the midwife (who said she could have bitten her tongue as soon as she said it!) said to her that she would probably have to work hard as she had a good size baby on board. My cousin said that she became really frightened and the contractions just died. I wonder if there was anything holding your woman back? Although you said she seemed excited and focussed. As far as her pushing without contractions, I think if you have a fetal bradycardia and possibly a compromised bub then it becomes priority to get the baby out. It might just be head compression, but it might not. Cheers Michelle diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wise women, Just want to throw this out there for comments/suggestions. Had a birth the other night that was a bit worrying at the time. Good outcome lovely 4200g baby girl. Mum (primip)had SROM at clinic visit at 830 am then went home and established at about 1630, came in contracting moderately at 1900hrs was 4-5cm , I took over her care at 2000hrs. Lovely very motivated mum, well read and attended classes, well supported by partner and mum and mum in law and sister. Ctx hotted up to 3-4 minutely and stronger, was drinking well but had a few small vomits, and next UA showed
Re: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph
Yes Melissa - GBS is a different organism from Staph. Not so long ago we used to 'anti-staph' the babies post first bath and day 3 using chlorhexidine cream, it apparently no longer is required as the 'staph contamination' is not harmful. Group B Strep is treated by AB's in labour and screening/monitoring babies X48 hours, very few are colonised, and few of these become sick but those that do can be very sick indeed Sue -- Original Message - From: Melissa Singer To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph I thought group b strep and staph aureaus are different organisms? Staph infections on vaginal swab require no treatment or preventative abs in labour. Staph seems to have no effects on baby (that they haven't found out yet!) and it is a normal colonisation of the skin only becoming a issue in the sick, and immunocompromised. I not 100% sure and am getting ready for work so no time to look it up yet. (p.s sharon, where i work we use benzpennicillin 1.2grams then 600mg every four hours.) Regards Melissa - Original Message - From: sharon To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph Thats right gbs is group b streph which is found on vaginal swab at 36 weeks treated with benzpennicillin during labour every 4 hours commencing with a loading dose of 3 gms then 1.2 gm every four hours while in active labour. Regards sharon From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ceri KatrinaSent: Friday, 6 October 2006 7:32 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph Isn't GBS a staph infection??? Been awhile since I was at work, relishing in the time off work with little munchkin who is now 3 and bit months old.katrinaOn 06/10/2006, at 7:06 PM, Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: One of the women on my site has just found out she has both of these things. She said she has googled for hours and cant find anything on Staph specifically. Can someone pass on some knowledge on what this is going to mean? I have never heard of someone having both before . Shes almost 38wks Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator,BellyBelly.com.auConception, Pregnancy, Birth and BabyBellyBelly Birth Support No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/464 - Release Date: 5/10/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
I wanted to respond also about how sad I feel as a consumer that the hospital midwives must do the lesser of two evils. Sad for the midwives who have to practice this way as it must be so hard. Also sad for the families that use this system that they often dont get evidence based care or an expectant management approach because they dont have enough information to say actually I am not going to have either option, I want something different. If only they knew to ask is that really necessary? Why? Another reason to have a professional support person I suppose or a private midwife. What a terrible state of affairs we are in. I truly feel for all who are involved in this type of scenario as no-one gets to experience that birth in the way it was meant to be. Absolutely Philippa - this is the truth of the matter, women don't know that there IS another option, and we are caught between the rock and the hard place in trying to care for them. Sue PS - will try both the sugar water and the honey next time I have a slow labour :-) - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions I had a Sudanese client a while back whose other support person (another Sudanese woman) gave the client hot water with about 10 sugars in it. Traditionally they use a slightly different hot mixture she said, but boy did it pick up her contractions. This was her 3rd baby and third labour for this baby in 2 weeks. Fear played a big part in two labours stopping on presentation to hospital. Anyway I was in awe at this simple effective strategy for bringing things on. I wanted to respond also about how sad I feel as a consumer that the hospital midwives must do the lesser of two evils. Sad for the midwives who have to practice this way as it must be so hard. Also sad for the families that use this system that they often dont get evidence based care or an expectant management approach because they dont have enough information to say actually I am not going to have either option, I want something different. If only they knew to ask is that really necessary? Why? Another reason to have a professional support person I suppose or a private midwife. What a terrible state of affairs we are in. I truly feel for all who are involved in this type of scenario as no-one gets to experience that birth in the way it was meant to be. With respect and admiration, Philippa ScottBirth Buddies - DoulaAssisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour.President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of cath nolanSent: Friday, 6 October 2006 8:37 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions I have given tired women a spoonful of honey around this stage, sometimes when things just seem to be going off the boil and tiredness is kicking in. It seems to work magically, and one of the Obs Reg at my work now lets me give that a go before mentioning the synto.He has seen it work a few timesnow.Maybe it is one of those experiences of having been a RN as well as a midwife that has helped. In remote areas we have to work with what we have got. Cath - Original Message - From: diane To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:24 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions Hi Wise women, Just want to throw this out there for comments/suggestions. Had a birth the other night that was a bit worrying at the time. Good outcome lovely 4200g baby girl. Mum (primip)had SROM at clinic visit at 830 am then went home and established at about 1630, came in contracting moderately at 1900hrs was 4-5cm , I took over her care at 2000hrs. Lovely very motivated mum, well read and attended classes, well supported by partner and mum and mum in law and sister. Ctx hotted up to 3-4 minutely and stronger, was drinking well but had a few small vomits, and next UA showed small ketones and SG 1.030, but was still drinking well and ctx remained strong and regular so didnt want to put in a cannula. VE at 1130 showed an anterior lip, still a bit thick. Wasnt able to wee again after that but head was well down. Was actively pushing with some ctx at 0100 with signs of full dilatation (nice purple line!) Contractions really started to drop off, became about 4minutely and only about 20secs of good strength. Mum getting quite tired at this stage but more focussed and excited than earlier. At this
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Purple Line
And a very nice butt it is too Jo - not that I looked of course :-) Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Jo Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Purple Line I have had a request to put my butt on photobucket, so I've worked it all out, and there it is: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i167/Notchalk/100_5129.jpg :) Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 31/08/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal examinations
Well, we (midwives) still use that as a general rule of thumb and do far fewer VE's than some drs would like. I would need to look at the policy manual but believe that is roughly what it states. Can't do this at the moment as am on holiday and off to Bali next week :-) I find sometimes I will do a VE simply to prevent the woman having the dr do it, knowing that he would want to do one, but it is largely up to the individual midwife's judgement. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal examinations Sue, you said It used to be in our unit that we would do a VE 'when your care/management of the woman would depend upon the result' What is it now? MM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/432 - Release Date: 29/08/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] opposition (was 'info required)
Be my guest! I like quotes as you may have
noticed
Bullying is right - it is very hard to stand up
against it. Sally Westbury said something interesting at a recent ACMI meeting -
if you see a colleague being bullied, just go and stand next to them, don't buy
into the arguement, just stand by your colleaugue. Am waiting for the
chance to do this - trouble is they often bully when you are alone or looking
after your labouring woman - doesn't give you much chance to speak up. I find
they tend to make a crass statement then flounce off leaving you unable to
follow!
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Synnes
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 7:57
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] opposition
(was 'info required")
What a brilliant quote we can take from you Sue!!
"At the bedside is not a good time to be arguing policy". I'm amazed at
how much bullying occurs and how much is gotten away with even
now!
Amanda
- Original Message -----
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: midwifery list
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:53
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] opposition (was
'info required")
One
of my favorite quotes is Gandhi
First
the ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you
win.
Similar
to a quote I read on JB
"All
truth goes through 3 stages: Firstly it is ridiculed, second it is violently
opposed, thirdly it is held to be self-evident"
Well
done for advocating for this woman Joy. We were discussing the National
competancy standards at work recently and I held that it is not possible to
uphold these in the truest sense whilst working within an obstetric model of
care. We cannot truly be women's advocates and work within hospital
blanket policies.
I
was attending a very nice normal birth recently with absolutely no adverse
factors and had discussed with the woman leaving the third stage to happen
naturally unless otherwise indicated. All was well untill Ob comes in
uninvited, unrequested, sees synto drawn up but not given, babe in mum's
arms placenta already pushed out by mum (next contraction post baby) and in
kidney dish, still attached to baby.
Ob
goes ballistic and insists on synto being given,saying "there are no
medals for haemorrhaging" even though the blood loss was minimal and well
within norm, and placenta already out. (so what exactly do we give
synto for again)
My
point being that within the obstetric model- the 'boys' hold the power, the
management backs them up. At the bedside is not a good time to be arguing
policy. I tried to discuss with my cnm the fact that I was responsible
for giving a drug that was not necessary, so if the woman had an adverse
reaction and we were sued, I would be wrong for giving the drug that was not
medically indicated. Was just told that I am covered under hosp policy and
have to work within them - this does not fit with what I hear about court
procedings.
Sorry
this is a bit rambling - but wanted to add my support to you Joy for holding
up under pressure and I agree that perhaps YOU should instigate a meeting to
discuss this.
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of
evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
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8/18/2006
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18/08/2006
[ozmidwifery] opposition (was 'info required)
One of my favorite quotes is Gandhi First the ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win. Similar to a quote I read on JB "All truth goes through 3 stages: Firstly it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, thirdly it is held to be self-evident" Well done for advocating for this woman Joy. We were discussing the National competancy standards at work recently and I held that it is not possible to uphold these in the truest sense whilst working within an obstetric model of care. We cannot truly be women's advocates and work within hospital blanket policies. I was attending a very nice normal birth recently with absolutely no adverse factors and had discussed with the woman leaving the third stage to happen naturally unless otherwise indicated. All was well untill Ob comes in uninvited, unrequested, sees synto drawn up but not given, babe in mum's arms placenta already pushed out by mum (next contraction post baby) and in kidney dish, still attached to baby. Ob goes ballistic and insists on synto being given,saying "there are no medals for haemorrhaging" even though the blood loss was minimal and well within norm, and placenta already out. (so what exactly do we give synto for again) My point being that within the obstetric model- the 'boys' hold the power, the management backs them up. At the bedside is not a good time to be arguing policy. I tried to discuss with my cnm the fact that I was responsible for giving a drug that was not necessary, so if the woman had an adverse reaction and we were sued, I would be wrong for giving the drug that was not medically indicated. Was just told that I am covered under hosp policy and have to work within them - this does not fit with what I hear about court procedings. Sorry this is a bit rambling - but wanted to add my support to you Joy for holding up under pressure and I agree that perhaps YOU should instigate a meeting to discuss this. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding
My 5cents worth: I agree with all points already given. I too am saddened and frustrated by the ammount of b/f/ 'problems' we seem to encounter in hosp. In over 27 years of being a midwife and seeing teaching/theories/attitudes change plus b/f/ 3 of my own through varying theories from '2mins a side 4hrly, increasing to max 10 mins a side through to feed on demand. Then the various attachment 'techniques' I have learned/been taught/shown others over the years and yet there is still the same amount of problems encountered, in fact it seems to be getting worse IMO. I feel a major factor is women's lack of belief and faith in her body's ability to provide nourishment for her baby, in the same way that many women these days seem to lack the belief that their bodies can safely birth their baby. If it can't be seen, measured, controlled, or otherwise 'sold' to them, they have trouble believing in it - the power of advertising and media messages is very strong. The comments I hear most often are I would like to try to birth naturally/breast feed IF I CAN Like someone said 'do or do not - there is no try' barring the exceptions where there are real problems of course, and as others have posted - even major problems can be overcome with sufficient determination. ah! but we do live in a time of instant gratification - if it's too hard why bother? sue - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding To all you magnificent home birth warrior women out there, could you please tell me if any of your birthing women have problems with breastfeeding. I'm a middy student working on a ward at the present I'm astounded by how many women have problems with breastfeeding. If your women do not, please enlighten me as to why you think this is. If they do, again, what do you put this down to? -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 7/08/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] advise on placenta previa
Jan I am curious to know what makes you suggest bicornuate uterus based on Paivi's question? She has stated the friend was told placenta praevia, you point out that with bicornuate uterus the placenta is usually in one horn. Just trying to understand the reason for your diagnosis. Paivi - did the doctor say that the placenta went OVER the cervix? And has your friend had any vaginal bleeding? She needs to get the doctor to be explain precisely what he is diagnosing, perhaps taking you or another friend along to help her remember and ask questions. Regards, Sue - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] advise on placenta previa Hi PaiviYour friend most likely has a bicornuate (heart shaped) uterus. There is a dip in the middle of the fundus around this time that makes the baby appear to be lying lower - sometimes like the outline of an oblique lie. The placenta is usually sited in one horn and the baby is in the other - baby very cramped, hence the strong contractions. These women usually deliver early, somewhere between 36-38 weeks. Your friend could do a search on the wwwuterine anomalies, bicornuate uterus would be good key words to start with.CheersJanJan Robinson Independent Midwife PractitionerNational Coordinator Australian Society of Independent Midwives8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.auOn 6 Aug, 2006, at 21:09, Päivi Laukkanen wrote: Hi again you wise women,I was just talking to a friend of mine, who is 26 wks pregnant. (First pregnancy). She has been having very strong contractions and went to see a doctor because of this. She was told, that she has a placenta previa, and the placenta goes over... (She was very confused, since the doctor didn't explain her what was going on, just kept saying: Very strange it goes over...). She had a soft cervix and also strep B. They also said, that baby is laying very low. She was send for bed rest at home and has been having contractions all the time. I know she has been hoping for an intervention free birth. Can anyone give any thoughts on this, since it's out of my knowledge and would like to learn more about it.PäiviChildbirth EducatorFinland No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 5/08/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
I too have been checking notes since hearing Ina May's talk - our obs appear to still be using 2 layer closure, but best keep an eye on this. Have you asked the surgeons who are doing the single layer why Gail? I remember Ina May saying that there was also an increase in placenta accreta and percreta in subsequent pregnancies following single layer closure. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everybody, For those of you who were at that wonderful homebirth conference in Geelong last month, you may recall Ina May warning us about women in the US whose uterus had been sutured in one single layer instead of two following caesareans and the problems this poses for future VBACs. When I went onto PN ward, I told the staff about this they laughed at me and were adamant that it would never happen here in Australia. Our doctors are too well trained. Guess what? I've gone through the notes this week of caesars done last week this. Two of the women had their uteruses sutured in a single layer. Can't happen here? Just wanted to make you aware it certainly does and is. Regards, Gail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 31/07/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] testing
test post - isthe list is very quiet? Only mails lately from Mary - thanks Mary :-) but I seem to have missed a lead post or two judging from recieving replies only. Gremlins in cyberspace again perhaps Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] Isobel Joy has arrived...
Congratulations Janet- enjoy Sue - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Isobel Joy has arrived... Isobel Joy Stokes Fraser was born beautifully at home, in water, into her daddy's hands Thursday 13th July. She weighs 3.7kgs and has taken to life earthside with remarkable alacrity! Thanks to those who supported me through a challenging, lengthy labour. I couldn't have done it without you! Photos as soon as they're uploaded. From Janet, Trevor, Conor AND Isobel! For home birth information go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 14/07/2006
[ozmidwifery] Today's West Australian
At last - something positive about birth in the media!! In todays Health and Medicine section of the west was 3 page cover on where and why women choose to birth. Mums ranged from: 1 unplanned C/S for preterm breech, 1 planned c/s for placenta praevia, 1 planned c/s who changed her mind after talking to a midwife and had a '2 hour natural labour and birth', 1 VBAC, 1 Birth Centre birth and 1 planned homebirth!!! They also recommended talking to a GP or midwife (note - NOT an obstetrician! in fact the "O" word barely gets a mention but "midwife' gets plenty) and checking out all the hosps, birth centre and community midwifery program (i.e. shop around) plus some good reading, and informing yourself/ asking questions/changing your mind and knowing that you can make these choices. Women need to get more of this- more balanced views on birth and understand that they have choices - it quite cheered me up today! Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Tonight (VIC) Caesarean Births
Any chance of a transcript? Sue - Original Message - From: Ceri Katrina To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Tonight (VIC) Caesarean Births I caught the story in NSW, it started so well I thought!but I ended up screaming also!!!KatrinaOn 10/07/2006, at 7:34 PM, Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: Yup. *sigh*Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-supportFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joSent: Monday, 10 July 2006 7:01 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Today Tonight (VIC) Caesarean BirthsHH! Anyone else screaming at the tvjoFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Monday, 10 July 2006 6:32 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Today Tonight (VIC) Caesarean BirthsFYI there is a story on tonight about increased caesareans being performed.Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/07/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar
One thing I have seen a lot of is Obs stating in the operative notes that uterus was 'very thin' or 'translucent' and using this as justification for the repeat c/s One lady recently was wanting vbac very badly - came in in early labour i.e. not really established, at T+10. Got ARM'd - 2cms dilated, mec liquor ( not unusual post dates) CTG'd - nothing sinister on the trace, but a few hours later was told she needed c/s for fetal distress! Still not even in established labour, and I could see no evidence of fetal distress on the trace. The ob wrote 'translucent lower segment' on the notes. Apart from the total b.s. of her needing a repeat c/s this was so obviously a decision made by the ob without her understanding or ability to question his decision ( I was not there - talked about it with a colleague and we looked through the notes). Result is a woman who feels very aggrieved and disempowered. If she had had more knowledge and support she may well have had the ability to say no to the ARM and continuous monitoring, question what was deemed to be fetal distress on the monitor, and even not come in that early in her labour or go home again to establish. Instead she has had a second uneccessary c/s and is heading for a second bout of PND. Anyone have any comments on these 'thin lower segment' claims? My belief is that it is probably a normal state for the lower segment but 'they' see it as a sign of imminent rupture (of course if they weren't about to slice into it they wouldn't be able to see how thin it was) On a slightly different tack - can anyone point me to the latest thinking with active vaginal herpes lesions? Automatic c/s, or is there an alternative option? TIA Sue - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar When women tell me they were C/Sd for FTP Ialways explain this to themas "your baby just couldn't come outbecause...??? I am looking for further information from them or imparting what I know of the situation which led to their surgery. I do NOT say: "you didn't dilate" ie it's your fault that your Cx 'failed' to open, or the baby to descend etc. Apportioningblame is not a productive exercise here. FTP is a 'blanket term' for heaps of things as Janet says. It would be much more helpful to the women in understanding what's happened to themif we isolated the problem specified it rather than put it all under 1 heading which by its very wording assumes the mother is somehow at fault ! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar There's a thread on JB called "FTP? FTW?" which has research on it and how FTP is, oddly enough ; ) not something normally recognised or "diagnosed" in midwifery. FTP is one of the main reasons in Australia for c-sec, the other two reasons being breech and previous surgery. Shocking. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Id love to use all three but I will stick with the one that women know well most of the birth stories in our forum have that in it, unfortunately Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Thursday, 6 July 2006 1:18 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar It's really "failure to wait" and "failure to stop poking about"... - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Oh yes we are having a big discussion about the wording after that post, and I told everyone I am going to write an article: Failure to Progress: Why Doctors Need to Move On LOL I will too ;) Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From
Re: [ozmidwifery] roadside birth
Title: Message Thank you for your comments Barb - it makes the picture a bit clearer. When I read the article it seemed that the only reason she was not attended to at Emerald was the breech issue and I could not understand why that should be so given that the baby was deceased and therefor no longer at risk of harm. Not knowing the areas that you speak of, or the true state of the crisis first hand,it is difficult to imagine how hard it must be to make judgement calls. Apologies if I caused offense and thank you for explaining a little. Sue - Original Message - From: B G To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] roadside birth Don't believe all you read from the media. It is sad a woman has had to go through this however when people are grieving they do make outrageous comments and want to put blame somewhere. I will not speak on this case specifically but you can read my comments of a general nature- 1. Emerald is about 2 and half hours - 3 hoursof driving to Rocky good road, but one cannot expect people to stop of at the shops before leaving. 2. Some peopleare already booked in at Rocky because of other high risk features 3. Ambulance- yes and partner travels behind later IF she was in labour!! If low priority may not get moved out for some 8-10 hours! or if there is bed block at the receiving hospital the attending hospital maybe asked to 'keep her until there is a bed that comes free'. I have seen relatively young 34yo woman leave in private car following a CVA to travel the 1000 km to Brisbane because her family had been told for 6 days no beds available in Brisbane for her! Would you wait for that long for a bed knowing the best care was 1000km away and if you make your own way to Brisbane with a letter and scans you would have to be admitted. That's the plan anyway! 4Aerial retrieval- IF in labour pre-term RFDS prioritise pick up or categorise depending on urgency again partner left to travel alone and if there is a bed available. 5. Emerald has been closed many times and now down graded to very low risk and are not able to do any risk births such as breeches. limited back up with blood products if needed. There is presentlya locum retired O G who came out of retirement to ensure some birthing for low risk women remained such as multi's. Unable to do primips. 6. Midwife a very experience English midwife has worked there for some years and a wonderful DON also a very special midwife. Birthing choices for rural women is at crisis point. We take for granted the many services we have on tap- 24 hour pathology, blood bank, x-ray/sonography, wardspersons and even cleaners to do the floors of birth suite. Staff there have been trying for some time to provide a service. Next towns with some birthing is Longreach (4.5 hours away), McKay (3 hours) and Gladstone (4 hours) after Rocky. If people are interested in assisting midwives in rural communities go out and work in secondment periods of varying lengths which is what I do when services are to be closed. I learn a lot from them too when I answer a SOS. I have done 3 periods of time at Emerald aver the past 3 years and recently did 3 weeks at Longreach. I admire all these wonderful midwives who also have to be so skilled as nurses including emergency nursing and juggling birth clients! Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Tuesday, 4 July 2006 2:26 PMTo: midwifery listSubject: [ozmidwifery] roadside birth Dear all In the West Australian Saturday edition was a short piece about the Qld government apologising and 'promising to improve its health services' following a woman delivering a 34 week stillborn baby en route to Rockhampton hosp on May 16th. The main points reported were: woman went to Emerald hosp with pain at 34 weeks obstetrician and midwife discovered baby had died woman referred to Rockhampton 270 kms away because "was at high risk of having a breech birth" sent in own car as "she was not displaying any signs of labour" went into labour 20 kms from Rockhampton and stillborn baby delivered by husband This sounds s crazy! Why could she not be cared for at Emerald hosp by the "midwife and obstetrician" who saw herthere? Why was she sent on a 3 hour drive away from her family at such a traumatic time? Why didan obstetrician feel unable to deliver a breech despite the fact that it was a 34 week baby who had very sadly died prior to labour - surely the medicalreasoning for NOT doing a vaginal breech birth is supposed to be about the baby's
Re: [ozmidwifery] Back from the Homebirth Conference
Here here Kelly What a great weekend. Thanks once again to all who put so much time and energy into the organisation. Truly remarkable women. It was wonderful to be there and meet with old and new friends, and to have our 'positive' energy renewed. The audio-visual presentations in particular were awesome. Love Sue ps: Ina may's 'sphincter law' is so true- very much relieved now home:-)!! (too much information???- sorry!) - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Back from the Homebirth Conference I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for such a wonderful weekend! It was lovely to put so many faces to names and to have that passion turned up a notch by being in the presence of so many women cheering on the same hopes and dreams we have for birth. Thanks all again, cant wait for next year! Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation
Hi Astra Thanks for the further details In this case I would suggest (not having been in the room at the time) that there was obviously unwarranted interference and the midwife would seem to have compounded the problem of OP instead of helping. If the woman was a primip, 'pushing back the lip rarely works well. I have sometimes done this with multips who have a stretchy cervix, if they are getting tired and wanting to 'get on with it' and have felt the baby descend and rotate quite magically, but to do both procedures under the circumstances you describe sounds quite mad - what was she trying to prove?? If the woman was making good progress as you describe the best thing would have been to leave the membranes intact - this allows better rotation of the head in any case - and WAIT. Pushing 'cause you are now 10 cms' is very old and not good practice (as I said before) and I have often seen where someone has apparently pushed a lip back only to find it had returned after the poor woman has pushed valiantly against her own instincts (being directed to do so) and yes, they do get exhausted! Waiting for physiological urges to push gently gently will accomplish far better results as the baby will be being rotated slowly as he is descending. A stubborn lip of cervix - as sometimes happens with OP's - is best dealt with by encouraging the woman to breathe through, perhaps in left lateral or hands/knees position until the head reaches the pelvic floor and she will naturally push strongly once the lip has gone. Funnily enough this was similar to what happened to me with my 2nd bub (1st VBAC) My midwife colleague was so keen to deliver my baby having been with me all night, that she held the lip up 'got me pushing' and determined to stay on duty until I had birthed! I remember wishing she would get the hell away and go home, but like a good girl I tried to do what she wanted - second midwife was trying to persuade her to let me be but she was very determined! I don't think she tried to rotate the bub (who was by then OT) but had her fingers in my poor peri the whole time! ( something I have NEVER done since!!) I pushed for 1 1/2 hours with the doctors clanging the forceps outside the door (great VBAC practice huh!!) He eventually emerged after a LARGE epis and I was so exhausted that I couldn't even register the fact that it was over - snored loudly while being sutured. I still wish she had gone home and left me to the oncoming shift, I know I would have birthed much better if he had been left to descend and finish rotating in his (and my) own good time. Thanks for sharing your experience - learn from everyone but decide for yourself :-) Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation Quoting Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Did this incident cause some adverse outcomes? Regards, Sue Thanks for everyone's reply's.. Yes, this particular time, the outcome was forceps and a third degree tear which obviously not a direct result of the manouvre, but from the maternal exhaustion which ensued. In this case I think, it wasn't just the procedure, but the reasons for, and manner in which it was done. The midwife suggested it to the woman as a means of speeding up her labour (even though she was nine cm and had only been in the hospital for two hours!!), and had already performed an ARM for the same reason. She suggested that she could push the cervix back that last cm and rotate the baby, to save the baby doing so, and thereby reducing the overall time of the labour!! I couldn't believe what I was hearing! The woman agreed (???!!!) and this went ahead, with the woman instructed to push afterwards as she was apparantly now 10 cms. When no head appeared in due time, the woman was checked again and it was discovered that the cervix had gone back to 9cm.(suprise suprise) This scenario was repeated several times, with the woman encouraged to actively push in between. She eventually was so exhausted that the same midwife determined that forceps would be required... etc etc.Why not leave well enough alone in the first place? Anyway, the question I really wanted answered was that of safety. Obviously this was not a good illustration of appropriate of necessary use of this kind of technique, but my dilemma is that I have been told on the one hand that this kind of thing is dangerous and unnecessary, and then I read about it in Mayes, and several of you have replied that it is something you would do on occasion. I guess this is something I need to look into further. Thanks for all your help, regards, Astra. - Original Message - From: Astra Joynt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who has recently joined
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby bonus article
"It worries me a bit, I must say," he said. "We're getting requests, can they put their caesareans off from this week until the week after. We'd prefer not to." Heaven forbid some of them might deliver naturally while waiting!!! :-) Sue - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:30 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Baby bonus article www.theage.com.au Doctors want premature start to baby bonus rise Sarah PriceJune 25, 2006 CANBERRA should bring forward its baby bonus rise to reduce the risk of women delaying births, doctors say. The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists said it had told the Government it was concerned mothers and babies were at risk if people delayed births to cash in on the bonus. The payout is due to rise from $3166 to $4000 next Saturday. Melbourne's maternity hospitals said they had not received requests to delay births. "I haven't had any problem with women asking for advice on delaying birth," Danielle Wilkins, from the Monash Medical Centre, said. "I think women don't think it is such a big change." But college spokeswoman Julia Serafin said it had told the Government birth delays could "jeopardise the provision of optimal care and put at risk the wellbeing of the mother and baby". Dr Andrew Child, director of women's and children's health services at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney, has also raised concerns. Dr Child, a past president of the college, said it would cost the Government about $5 million to bring the increase date forward to tomorrow, based on 5000 babies a week born in Australia. "If I were (Health Minister) Tony Abbott, I would think very seriously about that," Dr Child said. He said $5 million was not much compared with the possible health risks. The call comes after a study found more than 1000 births were "moved" in 2004 so that the parents would not miss out on the baby bonus. The study, by economists Andrew Leigh, from the Australian National University, and Joshua Gans, from Melbourne University, found more children were born on July 1, 2004, than on any other date in the past 30 years. They estimated about 1089 births were "moved" to capture the bonus. Dr Leigh said they were concerned a similar pattern could occur this year. "One thousand births were moved two years ago and we don't know what the health implications of that is, but we don't think that could be a good thing," he said. "We're asking for persons to put the health of their child ahead of a few hundred dollars. "A safe late-June delivery is much better than a lucrative early July delivery." Dr Leigh said they wanted the Government to phase in the second rise that takes it up to $5000, due on July 1, 2008, over June that year. That could be done by increasing it by $50 a day over 20 days during the month. Dr Child said there had been a "significant number of requests" from women due to have caesareans at the Royal Prince Alfred to move their delivery date. "It worries me a bit, I must say," he said. "We're getting requests, can they put their caesareans off from this week until the week after. We'd prefer not to." Dr Child said up to three elective caesareans were performed daily at the hospital. There was "a bit of a bank-up developing" from July 3, while there were still quite a few spaces available this week, which was unusual. "The ones we're mainly worried about are the ones gone past the due date and they want to keep on waiting," he said. MONEY FOR BABIESThe baby bonus lump sum payment, known as the Maternity Payment, was first introduced on July 1, 2004. It was worth $3000 per child. From July 1, 2006, the bonus is due to increase to $4000. >From July 1, 2008, it is due to increase to $5000. 1150845421311-theage.com.auhttp://www.theage.com.au/news/national/doctors-want-premature-start-to-baby-bonus-rise/2006/06/24/1150845421311.htmltheage.com.auThe Age2006-06-25Doctors want premature start to baby bonus riseSarah PriceNational No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 23/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
So sorry to hear about your husband Pinky. I do hope he recovers quickly. Best wishes Sue - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! I would love to be going and got info from sarah Buckl;ey last week but things have been a bit 'hairy' here to say theleast.my husband had a heart attack on friday so unfortunately I wont be there. Pinky - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Are many Ozmidders going to the conference? Sue - Original Message - From: Sally-Anne Brown To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only20spacesleft for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded at www.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloonsand banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brown for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team. 04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 23/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation
Hi Astra I have used this in the past having been shown it by (even) older midwives, but not for many years. I had mixed success with it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all these "old skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is alone she needs to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry). I have not had a situation in which to think of it for a very long time. OP's mostly rotate after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so trying to rotate them prior to that or when they are still high,seems pointless now. It seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now so let's get you pushing" scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological pushing when the woman feels the urge will accomplish rotation in most instances. If a woman is pushing as directed by her own sensations and has a baby in OP it will often take a long time to bring the baby into view because she is pushing him around gently - I rarely see a persistent OP these days, don't know when I last caught or sawa 'face to pubes' bub. =I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues followed.= Did this incident cause some adverse outcomes? Regards, Sue - Original Message - From: Astra Joynt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. Without going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues followed. In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was told this is not good or safe practice at any time. I then witnessed the same midwife perform this procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with a clinical educater, I was told it is an 'old skill', and certain very experienced midwives still practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted this and said it is dangerous and has no place in midwifery practice.This is a very brief summary of these conversations, but I hope you get the gist. Anyway, I was happy with this, until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day that this procedure can be used to help turn a posterior baby!! I am completely confused! Safe, or not? Evidence based, or not? I would really appreciate any light cast on this subject... and just in case no one knows what I mean by digital rotation (if this is not the common term for it) It is the midwife using her fingers internally to sort of hook the baby's head (cervix fully dilated I guess, or close to it) and turn it into a more optimal position, using her own strength and accompanied by the woman actively pushing. I just want to also say that I know this is not something that should be occuring in any normal straightforward birth, but what other information or experience to you have, warm regards, Astra No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 19/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?
I too would like to see more women request being treated with respect and being consulted prior to interventions. Perhaps they don't think this wouldn't happen in hospital :-) We encourage our women to complete a birth plan - ( I agree that birth preferences may be a better term.) Some fill them out with thought and have obviously researched, some just put routine things down, such as 'dad to cut cord' 'baby to breast' 'go with the flow'. Our dr's now insist on 'discussing' birth plans with the women having had a few with choices they did not agree with! (read 'talk them around to my way of thinking') We midwives also discuss these with the women as they bring them in to clinic and hopefully give them the chance to talk through issues that may concern them. On balance I feel it at least encourages women to think about their preferences and to be aware that they do have the right to make decisions, few seem to make unreasonable requests, but all too few put much thought into what may be important to them. sue - Original Message - From: Alesa Koziol [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans? Hi Mary I like this. as you say it is not so much specific to preferred actions but a lovely reminder to all who may be alongside the woman that respectful consideration is a the basic preference:) Many thanks for this Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans? I have seen one which doesn't list the individual action desired (or not)but talks about quiet ambiance, privacy, being treated respectfully, having things explained in easily understood language, having a few minutes to digest the info and discuss it with partner/supporter, etc. Not very long, but covering the main points. This works no matter where the woman births and reminds midwives of the importance of undisturbed birthing principles and individual respect. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
Are many Ozmidders going to the conference? Sue - Original Message - From: Sally-Anne Brown To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only20spacesleft for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded at www.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloonsand banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brown for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team. 04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
Should we wear red carnations or something ?- would be great to put faces to names - I am going along with a colleague and a soon-to-be-midwife friend. Looking forward to it - sounds like a great conference Sue - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwives Andrea Q On 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: Are many Ozmidders going to the conference? Sue - Original Message - From: Sally-Anne Brown To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only20spacesleft for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloonsand banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brown for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team. 04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation
Me too - many times - it's pretty cool to watch them spin round on the peri huh? Sue - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation I have seen OP's rotate once on the peri and vaginal dilation present. It was fascinating to see, the saggituial suture rotating 180 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan CudlippSent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 6:05 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation Hi Astra I have used this in the past having been shown it by (even) older midwives, but not for many years. I had mixed success with it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all these "old skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is alone she needs to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry). I have not had a situation in which to think of it for a very long time. OP's mostly rotate after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so trying to rotate them prior to that or when they are still high,seems pointless now. It seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now so let's get you pushing" scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological pushing when the woman feels the urge will accomplish rotation in most instances. If a woman is pushing as directed by her own sensations and has a baby in OP it will often take a long time to bring the baby into view because she is pushing him around gently - I rarely see a persistent OP these days, don't know when I last caught or sawa 'face to pubes' bub. =I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues followed.= Did this incident cause some adverse outcomes? Regards, Sue - Original Message - From: Astra Joynt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. Without going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues followed. In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was told this is not good or safe practice at any time. I then witnessed the same midwife perform this procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with a clinical educater, I was told it is an 'old skill', and certain very experienced midwives still practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted this and said it is dangerous and has no place in midwifery practice.This is a very brief summary of these conversations, but I hope you get the gist. Anyway, I was happy with this, until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day that this procedure can be used to help turn a posterior baby!! I am completely confused! Safe, or not? Evidence based, or not? I would really appreciate any light cast on this subject... and just in case no one knows what I mean by digital rotation (if this is not the common term for it) It is the midwife using her fingers internally to sort of hook the baby's head (cervix fully dilated I guess, or close to it) and turn it into a more optimal position, using her own strength and accompanied by the woman actively pushing. I just want to also say that I know this is not something that should be occuring in any normal straightforward birth, but what other information or experience to you have, warm regards, Astra No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 19/06/2006 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy
Hi Alice This came to me but it was not me that posted the question, so don't know if you just maybe hit the wrong button? Sue. - Original Message - From: Alice Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:38 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy Hi Suzi, I have several studies that show thiscan't think of them all off the top of my head, but will find them for you and send you the info. I'll have to dig out my thesis (I've been somewhat pretending it doesn't exist at the moment). As a start, I think the recent (2005) JAMA published study talks about it, as do Thacker and Banta (1983) and Woolley (1995). There's also one that compares mediolateral and midline episiotomies (Thacker, 2000 from the British Medical Journal). Hope this helps as a start...I'll try to see what else I can find and send to you. Alice From: suzi and brett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:28:24 +1000 Can anyone point me in the right direction for good evidence that episiotomys have an increased risk of extending to 3 or 4 th degree? or am i remembering - interpreting incorrectly and the best evidence that we have only conclude generally that restrictive epis. has lowered morbidity because the women mostly doesnt end up with as much truama as anticipated. Little discussion i am having with one of our doctors - who says mediolateral cut is not at an increased risk of extending, only midline. My arguement was that only fetal distress with no time to wait for streaching ( or well informed maternal request?) is the only reasons for episiotomy. Im sure if it was a slice down the eye of a penis and the posibility of the man having painful sex and other morbidity for the next year - some doctors may think twice. Love Suz x _ New year, new job - there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau_t=752315885_r=Jan05_tagline_m=EXT -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 16/06/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff
By 'bad' I meant -choices that I or most midwives would disagree with - such as social (non-medically indicated) induction or elective C/S. They might be 'bad' choices in my view but there are plenty of intelligent women out there whose views are opposite to mine. I may disagree, I may attempt to inform (and I do, often), I may even avoid caring for them, but I cannot ultimately make their choice for them. They are making choices regarding what happens to their own bodies, not anyone else's, so it cannot be put in the same context as rape or child beating- I know that these choicesaffectbabies too, but because they are so commonplace it is hard to convince women that their choice to intervene unecessarily might also impact negatively on the baby. An example was on front of me recently: a mum had a child with Leukaemia, was due to birth the second one. Life was getting very hard with the care of sick child and increasing pregnancy, she asked to be induced early to make this time easier, for all sorts of personal reasons as well as medical ones. This was not the best option for babe-to-come, not the best birthing option for mum-to-be but it was the best option for the family unit as a whole. Who would deny this woman's choice in this situation? Have you ever tried to talk a smoker into quitting? The evidence is undisputably in their face but the choice to continue or not is theirs to make. Yes, misinformation must be fought. Yes, women must have good support and advocacy. Yes, to all those things but do we want to be accused of forcing 'our' beliefs on women?Because our truth is not necessarily their truth. Love this stimulating discussion - and please know that I am in no way trying to offendanyone, just playing Devil's advocate :-) Sue - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff "if we trulysupport choice then surely even 'bad' choices should be respected?" Why? Solely in the name of blindly supporting "choice" as a concept? How does this benefit Mothers and babes?We also have the choice to beat our children, men have the choice to rape women, and we can also choose to be cruel to helpless animals if we like. Should we respect these "choices" so as to indiscriminately uphold the paradigm of choice? Of course not. Why are innately harmful birthing choices (that affect not only the birthing woman but also her child) any different? If a Mother has made the decision to bring her child to birth, then shouldn't the Mother and babe be able to do so as optimally and safelyas possible - why is the "choice" to do so by mutilation and trauma even available, where it is not optimal practice? Besides which, do women birthing truly have "choice"? Or are the options they are TOLD they have presented to them by a patriarchal system directed at pacifying and controlling them in order to maintain the status quo and secure the balance of power; rewarding "good" (compliant) behaviour and brutally punishing "bad" (well-informed and assertive) behaviour? Women aren't making their "choices" in a vacuum and the incredible external pressures and aggressive campaign of misinformation they face strongly influences any directions they may take. We're far too focused on the choice and not focused enough on the Mothers and babes at the mercy of those choices. We need to stop singing about "choice" and focus on the facts; change the system, squash the misinformation,advocate for safety of Mother and baby, place the power back in their hands, and not be afraid to get REAL. Political correctness has no place in birth and nor does beauracracy. - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff Choice is an interesting concept: if we trulysupport choice then surely even 'bad' choices should be respected? One of our obs has joked about having a sign made for the ANC saying 'please do not ask for an induction as a refusal often offends' because the request comes so often. However, the other obs will often agree to a woman's request without too much argument. I have seen instances where the Ob has told the woman - you are not ready to birth, there is no reason to induce and if we try you will have a lengthy and horrible labour. The reply was "I DONT CARE- I WANT TO BE INDUCED" How can the ob refuse in this instance? The reverse is not true - if a woman reaches T+10 she is booked for IOL - there is little 'choice' within ou
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?
time and time again I saw them raw with grief because they felt they were unable to give the care these women needed and were entitled to. I so relate to what you have said Sally. It is hard to work in the system and maintain your integrity as a midwife. Considering the vast majority of midwives do work 'in the system' most of us do our best to provide the best we can within whatever restrictions we have to toe the line to. The system needs midwives like you who know how to challenge, and how to help your sisters challenge, so that in time we can change it. Please don't give it up. Sue - Original Message - From: sally @ home [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used? You know, a lot of the time I feel trapped between a rock and hard place!! I know that what has been said is not a personal attack, but working in the system (and how bad am I for succumbing to that?) makes me, by default, part of the problem. This I find very hard. I worked for 14 years as an independent midwife, it was hard yakka but extremely rewarding in all regards...I loved it. However, I was bearly able to keep food on the table, and paying bills was a nightmare.My belief was to keep my bookings manageable so that I could be there for all the women I worked with. In that time I never missed a birth. I believed I was working truly 'with woman'. In 2000 I went from homebirthing into a Level 3 referral hospital, because it was my misguided belief that I may learn something. (I had never worked with women with high risk pregnancies) and I really needed some financial stability in my life. The culture shock was immense and I spent the first few months wondering what the heck I had done. The midwives I worked with worked under the most horrendous conditions and time and time again I saw them raw with grief because they felt they were unable to give the care these women needed and were entitled to. Last year I started work at a brand new hospital in Berwick. A 'low risk' midwifery led unit...we endeavor to work with women in the true sense, we buck the system as much as we are able, which is often, and we bend the rules constantly, however,it is hard given that the medical profession, especially anaesthetists, have us over a barrel...this is where the rock and the hard place come in. We buck the system and we are hauled over the coals by the 'programme' and the medical establishment, we tow the line and we are shot down in flames by people who regard anything to do with hospitals as anti birthing women. Considering the hard work and effort we go to to work with and enable women to achieve the experience that is their right, I find some of what has been said quite insulting. Sure, there are midwives out there that are more medical model than midwives in the true sense, but this can be said for all people from all walks of life, and yes some policies etc are frustrating to work within, but unfortunately we can't work without them. Working in 'the system' is hard enough, it is a constant battle and an exhausting one at that. I am saddened by what I am reading and it just fuels my belief that midwifery is not where I want to be anymore. Sally -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 16/06/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff My point here was that this woman DID have this explained very carefully by a patient ob who did not want to induce her, and still she wanted it done. And we see so often those who come in time and time again trying very hard to get induced - some women will resort to all kinds of subterfuge, truly, and I have no idea why they are so keen to put themselves through the induction process, but they just want the pregnancy OVER. Sad Sue - Original Message - From: Roberta Quinn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:24 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff From: Susan Cudlipp "The reply was 'I DONT CARE- I WANT TO BE INDUCED' How can the ob refuse in this instance?" In my experience, many women don't understand that being induced can result in a very different birthing experience for themselves and their babies. Perhaps rather than simply being told yes or no, a woman would change her mind about wanting to be induced (or the way she is induced)if she hadall the facts. I also think "due dates" (particularly the dates calculated at early ultrasounds) can have a hugely negative psychological effect on a woman's willingness to wait for labour to start spontaneously. From: Justine Canes "It is not until we have a full complement of choice from homebirth to elec c/s can we say that women are really making a choice." And that women are fully informedwhen making those choices. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 16/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?
They like to have a baby within 24 hours of # membranes so will augment with synto within 12 hours usually, although a lot depends upon the time of day and acuity i.e. reluctant to start synto at night due to smallish unit and lack of on site theatre staff/anaesthetists etc at night. Also if labour ward busy the woman with # membranes might have to wait a bit longer than otherwise, which is often not a bad thing :-). We don't have a 'fixed' time limit, factors such as GBS +ve or medical indications might hasten the decision to augment, otherwise 6-12 hours wait is about average. If SROM happens in the evening they are usually left until morning before synto started. Occasionally multips are induced by ARM alone and given 4-6 hours to establish before synto is commenced, which can be nicer for the woman and is sometimes requested by some more informed ladies. Often works very well, especially for ladies with history of quick labours. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used? For those who work in maternity units, I am just wondering what the policy is in your unit in regards to how long a woman can continue after her waters have broken before having synto put up? There seems to be such pressure to put it up fairly quickly (after you ask to at least wait at all!), with an average of about 1 hour before the woman gets the pressure to speed things up. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 13/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries
I too have noticed a decline in the use of forceps. Time was that Kiellands were fairly common, and in experienced hands, quite effective for a POP. EXPERIENCED hands being the operative (no pun intended) word. One Ob recently said that these days he would opt for a c/s rather than a 'difficult' forceps and I can see the sense in that - having witnessed some truly horrific forceps births in the past, feet bracing the foot of the bed when extreme force was used, and one where the mum was taken to theatre with a forceps blade still stuck alongside the baby's head resulting in long term damage for mum and a baby that only lived for 48 hours. Extreme force should not be used - if the bub will not move then the attempt should be abandoned. However, one off shoot of the current rise in c/s is that drs are not experienced in instrumental deliveries, and even those that are tend not to go for it if there is any doubt. Depends on the doctor and his/her level of comfort I think - the next generation will have little 'comfort' in use of forceps at all methinks! Wrigleys and ventouse really only have a place in births where the bub is close to the door but either needs out quickly or mum is exhausted, one of our obs uses wrigleys very effectively in these situations, does not put mum in stirrups and is very gentle. Have also seen times when doctor will bring bub to crowning and then remove instruments letting mum finish the birth herself, which in the right circumstances can be very empowering. The birth Mary spoke of sounds like it was perhaps an injudicious use of ventouse given the circumstances?? Do you think this mum and baby might have been less damaged given a C/S? ( Hindsight being such a wonderful thing ) Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries I recently was present where a ventouse was used to turn a baby from POP, asynclitic position. It was very difficult, with extreme force and a very generous episiotomy. The baby was extremely shocked and had a head like a bowl of port wine jelly. It stayed 6 days under the Bili lights with high levels of jaundice.I believe that this was the ideal situation to use a Keillands for rotation and descent. Wriggley's was usually used to lift out the baby. This ventouse delivery has led to anguish and exhaustion for the mother, breast feeding interruption and confusion, formula feeding and a lack of connectedness with the baby. I haven't seen anyone use a Keillands or wriggly's for a long time. M -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 30/05/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
We give out vit K and hep B info and consent forms at 31 weeks which does give the parents time to read and consent well in advance of the birth. In clinic I find that very few (i.e. virtually none) refuse vitK but some discerning folks elect to avoid the hep B at birth but usually say they will have it with first immunisations. We do give vit K soon after birth but hep B is given at some point before discharge - may be day 1 or 5 depending how long they stay in (and how busy we are) None for a long time have requested oral vit K. I do remember one tragic case where a bub was given synto instead of vit K, a long time ago in UK - baby died I believe, it was a very sad situation with a very experience m/w who was about to retire - a sad end to a long and happy career for this woman, but shows how these mistakes can happen in a busy labour ward when injections are drawn up routinely ahead of need. When I was a 'baby' midwife in UK many years ago, we only gave vit K to bubs that had a traumatic delivery, now its all of them. I wonder about the need although some years back I subscribed to a USA mid list and this topic was discussed - seemed that many of the 'lay' midwives did not give it and the occasional baby did develop HDN in the first week or two, even though mum may have been taking high vit K diet pre and post birth. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Hi,With the new Konakion MM it's the other way around. It has been designed by increasing it's absorbability in fat to be more affective if given orally. It has NOT been proven to be as effective as the old Konakion in being absorbed by the IM route. They are waiting to see if the surveillance of the new Konakion through Australia, Switzerland and a few other countries is as effective IM as it is oral. The oral route has been found to give a higher vit K cover than the IM route over a few weeks.THere is so much misinformation about vit K. It is available to the baby through breastmilk and maternal supplementation does increase neonatal serum K levels. What more do we want??And by the way, all formla fed babies should be excluded from any study due to the addition of vit K to formulas. ie babies planned to be formula fed do not need vit k!!Suestudent midwifebirth practitionervit K has been my research assignment for the past three years If a solution is designed to be given IM is it absorbed effectively if given via the GI tract ? No mention of this in the literature accompanying the Konakion. Most IM meds are NOT designed to be administered or guaranteed by the pharmaceutical company to be effective if given orally. It may be neutralised by gastric secretions, I am unaware of any research re this. Anyone else know of any ? If you are going to introduce a foreign substance into the GI tract of a baby you'd want to have a good reason be sure that it was being absorbed wouldn't you ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: "diane" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Apart from the fact it tastes like Sh** (very bitter). Been reading about Vit K all day today . Seems like a pretty good option as far as the statitistics go. http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/publications/_files/ch39.pdf they recommend further research into the effectiveness of supplimenting brestfeeding mothers to increase the vit K in breastmilk as an effective suppliment. Di - Original Message - From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Just a side question if that's okay - what are your opinions on oral vitamin K versus injection? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Friday, 26 May 2006 3:24 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: The place I work we give it when we do the NST. It was a midwife decision not an evidence based one. Like giving it with the vit K it is easier to do it at a predictable time so that it doesn't get overlooked. The midwives wanted not to do it at birth as they were wanting to do as little as possible to interupt Mum and baby, As we need to have a signed consent form to give it and the mothers have often not filled this is prior to birth it was very interupting to get all this"Done" on the birth day and we find it not an issue later
[ozmidwifery] weight loss
Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife of the year
Heard the interview Mary (thanks to my DH who listens while driving and thoughtfully phoned me to tell me to switch on the radio) Well done on the interview - you came across very well indeed, a very positive plug for midwifery care. And many congratulations on your award - unfortunately I cannot make it to the IMD evening tonight, but hope it is a good evening for all who can. Happy IMD to all on the list too Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwife of the year Yes, I mean Friday. Brain not in gear obviously. MM From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo WatsonSent: Friday, 5 May 2006 9:04 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife of the year I hope you mean friday :) Congratulations again, Mary. Jo On 05/05/2006, at 8:04 AM, Mary Murphy wrote: Hi, just to let you know that I will be interviewed on ABC radio at 1030 this morning (thurs) (wa time). cheers, MM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.4/332 - Release Date: 4/05/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Misoprostol aka Cytotec
Same here - used for FDIU or genetic -mid-trimester terminations Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Misoprostol aka Cytotec So despite it's danger to women, it's being used here? How appalling! Bad enough the way Synto gets splashed around like lollies without this crap as well! I wonder if women even know what danger they're in when it's administered?! J - Original Message - From: Jo Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Misoprostol aka Cytotec It is - in the 3 hospitals in 2 different states I have worked in (maternity) it is used to induce labour where the baby has died, and to treat PPH. I have not heard of it being used to induce labour where the baby is still alive, apart from mid-trimester abortions (conditions not compatible with life, etc). HTH Jo On 26/04/2006, at 12:08 PM, Janet Fraser wrote: Does anyone have any more news on this? Is it being used in Australia? J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding Mothers Given Wrong Advice for 40 Years
This is interesting Kelly and about time these wretched charts were consigned to the bin. I did a lactation course a few years ago and the facilitator asked us to all bring in our ownbabies health records, some of which were very old! It was obvious that all of us who had breast fed produced babies with very different growth patterns to that specified on the chart. She explained about the growth being based on formula feeding, which was something most of us were unaware of. Regards, Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:13 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding Mothers Given Wrong Advice for 40 Years Breastfeeding evolution in Britain - WHO changes guidelines...http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2147863,00.html Mothers got wrong advice for 40 yearsSarah-Kate Templeton, Medical CorrespondentBREAST-FEEDING mothers have been given potentially harmful advice on infant nutrition for the past 40 years, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has admitted.Charts used in Britain for decades to advise mothers on a baby's optimum size have been based on the growth rates of infants fed on formula milk. The organisation now says the advice given to millions of breast-feeding mothers was distorted because babies fed on formula milk put on weight far faster.These breast-feeding mothers were wrongly told that their babies were underweight and were advised, or felt pressured, to fatten them up by giving them formula milk or extra solids.Health experts believe the growth charts may have contributed to childhood obesity and associated problems such as diabetes and heart disease in later life. A government study has found that more than a quarter of children in English secondary schools are clinically obese, almost double the proportion a decade ago.This week, the WHO will publish new growth standards based on a study of more than 8,000 breast-fed babies from six countries around the world. They will say the optimum size is that of a breast-fed baby.The move will put pressure on British doctors to replace charts which, for the last four decades, have taken into account the growth patterns of bottle-fed babies.Professor Tim Cole, of the Institute of Child Health at University College London, said: "We should change to a growth chart based on breast-fed babies. During their first year they do not put on as much weight as those fed on formula milk. Breast-fed babies are less likely to be fat later in life and to develop complications such as diabetes and heart disease."Six years ago, Cole developed an alternative chart based on breast-fed babies but it has never been endorsed by the British medical establishment. The Child Growth Foundation, a UK charity, campaigns for the adoption of Cole's chart.The foundation claims breast-fed babies are, on average, at 22lb at 12 months, about 1lb lighter than those fed solely on formula milk. It is thought that breast-fed babies grow more slowly in the first year because they control the rate at which they feed, rather than being tied to their parents' notion of meal times.Mercedes de Onis, who co-ordinates WHO child growth standards, said: "Breast-fed babies appear to self-regulate their energy intake to lowerlevels. Breast-fed babies have different metabolic rates and different sleeping patterns. Formula-fed babies seem to have higher intakes of energy and, as a result, are heavier."The American Academy of Pediatrics has warned that being overweight as a baby is a key early risk factor for heart disease and diabetes.The babies who were the models for the new WHO standards were selected for good health. They were all breast-fed, their mothers did not smoke and they received good health care.The WHO says babies should be fed solely on breast milk for up to six months. In Britain, fewer than 10% of babies are getting only breast milk by this age.The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health is to meet this summer to discuss the new WHO standards.The Department of Health said: "Once WHO publishes the new growth charts we will assess the need for revisions to the UK growth charts." Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/323 - Release Date: 24/04/2006
[ozmidwifery] Fw: With Women
I'm sure others will recieve this too, but thought I would forward it to the list FYI Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Great Birth Men at Birth To: Susan Cudlipp Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: With Women Dear Sue, Following the success of Having a Great Birth in Australia and the completion of Men at Birth (in press), the Australian College of Midwives has decided to publish a book detailing the work of caseload midwives. As demand for caseload midwives increases across Australia, more and more midwives are seeking information about this way of working.To help provide more information about the nature of caseload, its joys and difficulties and its benefits and challenges, the College is inviting midwives who have experience of caring for a caseload of women or experience of following women through pregnancy, labour, birth and early parenting, to contribute to a new book. The College invites members (and non members) to write about their experience for the new College publication With Women - from shiftwork to caseload. As well as midwives experiences being chronicled in the book, the College is also seeking contributions from midwives' partners and children, to illustrate the impacts of shiftwork and caseload midwifery on the midwife's personal life. I would be most grateful if you would consider writing or passing this information on to your colleagues or anyone else who may be interested. To obtain a copy of the Writer's Guidelines and more information about this project, please email me at: greatbirth@acmi.org.au I very much look forward to hearing from you. With best wishes, David • David Vernon Editor,Having a Great Birth in Australia, Men at Birth and With Women - Shiftwork to Caseload GPO Box 2314, Canberra ACT 2601, Australia Em: Click here to email David about "Great Birth" Em: Click here to email David about "Men at Birth" Em:Click here to email David about "With Women" Web:http://www.acmi.org.au/greatbirth.htm Web:http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htm • If you no longer wish to be contacted by me about ACM Publications, please let me know and I shall remove you from my email list. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/312 - Release Date: 14/04/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push
Wow! Have just read all the other responses to this question and am quite amazed - in most hospital situations all that would be thought of would be an epidural to lessen sensation! :-) Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Thanks Sue... What is usually done to remedy it.? From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:21:42 +0800 Sometimes happens with OP positions. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:19 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Hi all, A good friend, during her labour, got to 3-4cm and had an uncontrollable urge to push. Her doula, midwives and all tried everything to perhaps lessen the sensation...to no avail. She ended up with CS. Now, what is this all about...? I'm thinking maybe presenting part doing something unusual?? Would love some knowledge re this? Ta -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthing Music
How strange - my daughter was born to Tony O'Connor - Rainforest. Sounds like he's a popular birth choice, but I agree that it's whatever does it for you - some of the music my clients have chosen has not been to my taste, or IMO suitable to the birthing mood, but it was their choice, not mine. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birthing Music On a very personal note - I used the soundtrack from the movie The Piano for my first vbac homebirth baby and I found it really good music for labouring- kind of repetitive and hypnotic, but in a good way. The next labour I also used one of those relaxation cd's that was sea themed ie lots of waves and water noises - I think they are Tony Connor or O'Connor - the rainforest one is nice too! Maxine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ceri Katrina Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 10:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birthing Music Hi everyone I know this is going to be a very individual preference, but just wondering if any of you wonderful people out there can recommend some music for birthing. I have my Enya CD and a couple of others, but am wanting some more. If anyone has a CD or artist they can recommend from personal or other experience that would be fabulous. thanks in advance Katrina -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
Jo - was this the post you wanted? Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains This is a small handout by Gloria Lemay (thanks Gloria) I give to clients about self checking. jo Self-Checking of Dilation and Descent From: Childbirth Quotes from Gloria Lemay http://www.birthlove.com/pages/gloria/quotes.html How to Check Your Own Cervix- it's not rocket science I think it's a good and empowering thing for a woman to check her own cervix for dilation. This is not rocket science, and you hardly need a medical degree or years of training to do it. Your vagina is a lot like your nose- other people may do harm if they put fingers or instruments up there but you have a greater sensitivity and will not do yourself any harm. The best way to do it when hugely pregnant is to sit on the toilet with one foot on the floor and one up on the seat of the toilet. Put two fingers in and go back towards your bum. The cervix in a pregnant woman feels like your lips puckered up into a kiss. On a non-pregnant woman it feels like the end of your nose. When it is dilating, one finger slips into the middle of the cervix easily (just like you could slide your finger into your mouth easily if you are puckered up for a kiss). As the dilation progresses the inside of that hole becomes more like a taught elastic band and by 5 cms dilated (5 fingerwidths) it is a perfect rubbery circle like one of those Mason jar rings that you use for canning, and about that thick. What's in the centre of that opening space is the membranes (bag of waters) that are covering the baby's head and feel like a latex balloon filled with water. If you push on them a bit you'll feel the baby's head like a hard ball (as in baseball). If the waters have released you'll feel the babe's head directly. It is time for women to take back ownership of their bodies. -Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC http://www.glorialemay.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 7:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains A bright lovely good morning to you all, In all of my groups, after fully explaining informed choice, I explain that there are three options for the women when choosing the way she would like to birth her placenta: 1. medically managed with an injection given into the thigh which will induce an artificially strong contraction to hasten the expulsion of the placenta and reduce excessive blood loss and this would be very appropriate for someone who is high risk for example; a smoker, a woman who drank alcohol very regularly throughout the later part of pregnancy, an anemic woman, those who have already had medical intervention such as an epidural, induction, etc. 2. to decline the injection 3. to take the wait and see approach... explaining to the midwife at the time (and write in the birth plan so partner understands... I would prefer to avoid the injection as a routine injection, preferring instead to hold my baby at my breast, to naturally stimulate oxytocin to expel my placenta, but am prepared to receive the injection if it is medically necessary for a big bleed I also explain the normal blood loss is 300 to 500 mls of blood and an excessive blood loss would be 600mls+ which would require an injection. There are three injections which are available for a pph or big bleed and they are Syntocinon, syntometrine and ergometrine, each one increasing in intensity and side effects such as nausea. I then simply explain that most women describe a normal physiological third stage as mild period pain, however usually this pain will increase with each subsequent baby and/or with medical intervention. As for after pains over the next 24-48 hours I am always careful to point out that this is normal and women are less likely to be overly concerned about it when they are very familiar with the very positive fact that it is the uterus returning back down to it's normal size... and that this is a very good thing and it is what a woman wants. It seems to me that with good strong positive reinforcement women recognise the benefits of normality - and keeping birth as normal as possible. I feel completely comfortable in emphasizing normality as the best, safest, and worth striving towards compared to routine or encouraged by friends (epidural), medical intervention. Warm hug to all, Julie Julie Clarke Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood
Re: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix
Sorry - I reposted it but put Jo instead of Sadie "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Sadie To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix Hi, Does anyone still have the link that was on Ozmidwifery recently about feeling for your own cervix? I thought I'd saved it - but I hadn't. Thanks, Sadie No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix
Hi Sadie
Good - getting busier, clinic wasfull
ontoday - easter : extra clinics.
How are you? No longer tutoring?
sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Sadie
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:23
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your
own cervix
Thanks Sue - I'll wait for it to come
through.
How are you doing at Swans?
KEMH is manic - days go quick :)
Cheers,
Sadie
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:11
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your
own cervix
Sorry - I reposted it but put Jo instead of
Sadie
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of
evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Sadie
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:48
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your
own cervix
Hi,
Does anyone still have the link that was
on Ozmidwifery recently about feeling for your own cervix?
I thought I'd saved it - but I
hadn't.
Thanks,
Sadie
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free
Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:
10/04/2006
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free
Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date:
10/04/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Hospital situations
'Good births do happen in hospitals. Regards, Barbara' Very true barbara - thankfully! But its good to hear all these other bits of midwife wisdom Sue (also hospital midwife) "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Barbara Stokes To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Hospital situations Dear Midwives, I work in a small rural hospital as a midwife/RN for 34 years and we certainly offer many of the suggestions that have been mentioned. Please remember that midwives in hospitals are midwives just as you are with the mothers best interests In their hearts. in most hospital situations all that would be thought of would be an epidural to lessen sensation! :-) Sue Good births do happen in hospitals. Regards, Barbara No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/310 - Release Date: 12/04/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push
Sometimes happens with OP positions. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:19 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Hi all, A good friend, during her labour, got to 3-4cm and had an uncontrollable urge to push. Her doula, midwives and all tried everything to perhaps lessen the sensation...to no avail. She ended up with CS. Now, what is this all about...? I'm thinking maybe presenting part doing something unusual?? Would love some knowledge re this? Ta -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
I have long thought that transition phase has nothing to do with how many centimetres dilated a woman is, have been laughed at several times for suggesting that a woman was transitional at only 3cms, only to have a birth within 1/2 hour. Ihave known even very experienced midwives get VE's wrong - one memorable one was a woman who was supposed to be 'fully' and in reality had a posterior closed os, which had not been reached - the midwife was feeling the head stretching the anterior vag wall and had not felt back far enough to reach the os. Mistook the bulging anterior wall for an open cervix. Another who self-examined and got the stage correct (5cms) but entirely missed the fact that it was an undiagnosed breech! She just thought the baby was bald :-) Melissa - I agree that your own assessment at home was probably correct and can only assume that the admitting midwife made an error, but you own behaviour at that time was surely transitional! (still, a good story to dine out on !! :-)) For myself I found self examination quite easy but did not do it prior to going in- was most disappointed to be told I was only 5cms and not thinking that my labour was strong and that I was transitional - delivered 1 hour later, after self-checking and finding an anterior lip. I don't know how women not used to feeling their own bodies would fare - as student midwives we all found this to be one of the hardest skills to learn and it took many VE's before it clicked for me. Ina May Gaskin, and others also speak of cervix's actually 'going backwards' and I have seen this occasionally. Interesting thoughts Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Oh what a stressful experience I had something similar happen for my first vaginal birth (and labour) when I was examined I was only 3 but I thought I must have been 8 and felt really panicky and then within about 20 mins I was pushing and 15 minutes later my baby was born. But it was very disheartening thinking I didnt know where my body was at. I believe my VE was correct I was just having transitional type contractions with my cervix not far behind! It just reinforces the question of how useful is a VE? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Melissa SingerSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 2:04 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Maxine, This is my own personal experience with self examination. I'm a midwife of ten years working in a hospital setting (ie have done plenty of V.E's!!) and when I had my first baby just over a year ago I laboured at home from 11am until midnight when I did my own examination and I could have sworn I felt a 5 cm dilated cervix with bulging membranes. From there I decided to go to the birth centre which was 45min away. I had strong regular contractions but coping fairly well at home in the shower. My husband was asleep - typical! When I arrived the midwife examined me (I didn't tell her I had performed my own) and she said I had a posterior closed and uneffaced cervix. I was baffled aboutthe discrepancyand absolutely mortified I, as a midwife, had arrived to the birth centre so early. She suggested we go home so I did. I screamed all the way home, stayed there for 1/2hr anddecided if I had to go another 12hrs with this intense pain I needed drugs and drove the 45 mins back fighting the urge to go to the loo for a poo. Arrived and jumped in the bath a screamed out a baby girl. Much to the midwife's surprise! My husband told her the head was out. Anyway, I'm still not convinced her examination was right looking at the time line of events, but I was coping so well at home and when I was told I hadn't even started to efface yet I lost the plot! When I arrived back the midwife must have thought I still had ages to go because I didn't received one word from her, let alone reassuring, that it was all O.K and I was nearing the end. Melissa - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult
Re: [ozmidwifery] after birth pains
Hi Lyn I don't know if this woman had actively managed or physiological 3rd stage with her first 2 but I know of one (now grand) multip whose 2nd birth I attended - she suffered dreadfully with after pains in all hosp births but has had the last couple at home with physiological 3rd stages and told me that the after pains have not been a problem . Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: lyn lyn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] after birth pains Hi all I am seeing a mother G4P3 now at 36 weeks who has asked me if there is anything she can do about after birth pains. She had severe suffering after her last two and would like to avoid if possible. Can they actually be avoided. and if so could that mean that there is a risk that her uterus will not contract down strongly and therefore she may bleed heavily. A midwife I know talked about using coosh (not sure if blue or black, i have no experience with either). Supposed to be an antispasmodic, which may not be ideal if we want a contacted uterus. Thanks in advance for any help you may provide lyn No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 31/03/2006
[ozmidwifery] JW's - prejudice?
Hi all I was very saddened this week while doing ante-natal clinic. I had a 32 week primip who had been booked at the family birth centre, she was transferring to our care because, as she is a JW and would not accept blood products, she is deemed to be high risk and not allowed to birth at the FBC. Her alternative option was to transfer to the tertiary unit, to which the FBC is attached, and submit to fully actively managed 3rd stage which included an IV infusion of synto. FBC clients have to accept active management anyway, i.e. IM synto, but this woman had to agree to so much more and was denied FBC care. Apparently this is a new policy and I can't imagine that the FBC midwives are happy with it, but really - who makes these decisions, and based on what evidence? Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking'
I have to agree with both Gloria and Nicole here. While the reporting of this sounds insensitive and many premmies do just fine, the reality is that the extremely premature babies do not have good outcomes, suffer an innordinate ammount of painful procedures, and often end up with enormous long term disabilities and suffering which has an impact on the whole family. I haveseveral friends with such children and their lives, while precious, have been extremely hard, usually ending young. The parents are left bereft but often relieved when it is finally all over. If this offends some, I do not mean to - just telling you what I have seen and experienced first hand. The trouble is, of course that we do not have a crystal ball to know which are going to do well and which are not, but it horrifies me that so many very sick babies are kept alive when nature would have decreed otherwise - "just because we can". The cost factor is enormous and unjustifiable, but the true cost is in the suffering of the child and it's family. There is so much money used in keeping these tiny babies alive, but then they are given back to their families who have to get on with coping with the result, and believe me- there is precious little funding or support to help with the cost of the next 15, 25, or 55 years. I, for one, am quite pleased to hear that medicine is questioning the wisdom of resuscitating extremely premature infants - too much harm has already been done in thequest of pushing the boundaries of medical science. To quote one friend, a mother, who wrote her story very eloquently: "What happened to all the help given to keepmy sonalive - modern up-to-date technology that saved his life and kept him alive?. Once we were shown the door we were on our own. No more grand technology - because it is wasted on people with a disability - because there is no money, no money, no money" This boydied at age 19, after a life of total dependence for all his needs. He had been born at 24 weeks gestation. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking' Wise words, Nicole. We all have to look at the reality of medical costs that are skyrocketing and never-ending technology that we can buy but can't afford. Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking' How sad. A more valid point to discuss is the suffering that some of these babies go through, which should be weighed against chance of survival and later quality of life. There is a lot that is done to these babies to keep them alive, that must must be incredibly painful and distressing. Good palliative care for some, would be far kinder in their brief lives than intercostal tubes, arterial lines, ventilation, gastric tubes, tape all over their face which pulls off their skin when changed, noisy, scary environmentsetc. However, what a heart rending decision to make. I am greatful for my three healthy children, born vaginally at term. No miscarriages or even any scares.How precious life is. Perhaps there should be more done in the prevention of prematurity, such as reducing the stress of pregnant women in lower socio-economic groups by running support groups and providing one to one midwifery care, and more intervention to help women stop smoking. Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:19 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Article: Premmie Babies 'Bed Blocking' This was apparently on Sky makes you sick to the stomach Fury Over Baby Comments Updated: 14:38, Monday March 27, 2006 Doctors have provoked controversy by suggesting premature babies should not always be treated because they are "bed blocking". They said that in some cases, premature babies born under 25 weeks should be allowed to die. The Royal College Of Obstetricians And Gynaecologists said space in neo-natal units was often in short supply. They said this was the result of "bed-blocking" by very sick premature babies. The Royal College said such beds could be better used to treat babies with a higher chance of survival than sick premature ones. Professor Sir Alan Craft, of the Royal College of Paediatrics, said: "Many
Re: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald
Have you tried a library? Most of them keep copies of papers Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Great Birth Men at Birth To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald Dear Folks, Apparently last Sunday (26 March) in the Sun-Herald (Sydney paper) on page 76 there is an article called "Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution." Iprovided some material for this article and the journalist was goingto let me see it before it went to print. Unfortunately she neverlet me know it was being published last weekend and therefore I havebeen unable to get a copy of the article (I live outside Canberra andby the time I found out about it no Canberra newsagents had a copy). I have tried contacting the journo but she has gone on maternityleave! And the paper won't give me her contact details. Does anyone have a copy of it that they could send me? I will ofcourse pay postage costs. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htm No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 28/03/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] But there is Dr delay to the story from NZ
Title: Message What I cannot understand here is that the woman was transferred at 23.45hours for mec liquor, and "sat on" for the next 5 hours, presumably being monitored by CTG all that time with the mec getting thicker. How come the midwives are copping the blame here? The attending midwife obviously transferred appropriately, it would appear to be hospital mis-management, either lack of monitoring, inexperience in reading the monitor, or lack of appropriate assessment by doctor on duty. Either way, to allow a woman to labour with fetal distress which must have been increasing for the babe to be so compromised is certainly unforgiveable - but why was she left so long? That is the question that needs to be answered. Even in hospital care the doctor was 'too busy' to assess this poor woman? Tragic. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: B G To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] But there is Dr delay to the story from NZ Just read the fuller details. Seems to me the midwives took her to hospital correctly but a huge delay in being seen by the Dr! Seems to me there is scaremongering going on. Love to know more about the Dr stats. Barb This article is owned by, or has been licensed to, the New Zealand Herald. You may not reproduce, publish, electronically archive or transmit this article in any manner without the prior written consent of the New Zealand Herald. To make a copyright clearance inquiry, please click here. Alan and Heather Phillips place flowers at the grave site of their baby daughter Tyla in Awhitu. Picture / Kenny Rodger Baby died after hospital errors 20.03.06By Martin Johnston Another baby has died after a series of mistakes partly blamed on midwife care. Tyla Phillips survived for only 7 hours after she was born at Middlemore Hospital in an emergency caesarean operation last August. A hospital specialist later told her parents, Heather and Alan Phillips, that if the operation had been performed three hours earlier she might have lived. The specialist said midwives misread a fetal heart rate monitor. The couple now want an inquiry into maternity and midwifery care because their case follows other newborn deaths with similar themes. Middlemore is saying little publicly about Tyla's birth until the Accident Compensation Corporation has reported its decision to the hospital and Health and Disability Commissioner Ron Paterson has investigated. The hospital says it may refer the case, which had devastated the staff involved, to the commissioner, or medical or midwifery bodies. However, hospital documents and a tape recording the Phillips have of one of their meetings with senior clinicians catalogue the mistakes that led to Tyla's death on August 18 and a follow-up internal review. A key failure was midwives' mis-reading of a fetal heart rate monitor, according to the obstetric consultant on call at the time, Dr Alec Ekeroma, on the tape. He also indicated that the fetal blood-acidity test which led to the caesarean decision - done after an obstetric registrar reviewed the heart monitoring - was unnecessary in the circumstances and wasted time. He said the 21-minute caesarean operation - Tyla was born at 5.53am - should have been done "probably two or three hours earlier". If it had been, this "may have changed the outcome". Mrs Phillips was several days overdue when she went to the Middlemore-allied Botany Downs Maternity Unit, which was managing her pregnancy. The unit's midwives had her transferred to Middlemore at 11.45pm on August 17. Her waters had broken around 9pm, containing what her medical file says was "moderate meconium" (faeces from the baby). Staff noticed thick meconium when she arrived at the hospital. The presence of meconium can indicate a distressed baby. Because of this, the Phillips expected a caesarean on arrival at Middlemore. Mrs Phillips said she was not fully assessed by an obstetric doctor until about 5am. Her medical file states a registrar was asked to see her after her arrival but was busy in theatre. At 5.32am the decision was made to deliver Tyla by caesarean after the
Re: [ozmidwifery] placental gardening
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] placental gardening I don't know much about this and also tend to kill plants!! But one of my colleagues takes home unwanted placentae for her roses - I will ask her what she does to them, apparently her garden is lovely Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] placental gardening Dear AllI can vouch for the following plantsCamellia in a pot (very happy) 1st babe 6.5 years agoGrevillea (grew like bloody wildfire) nearly 5 years oldDavid Austin old world Rose Only a bit sad due to drought and a forgotten area of the yard - um ma! (3 years old)Now what to plant for the twins? Yes HUGE placenta. I have a huge garden but virtually no space. I am thinking of something with a double flower (yes I like matching and all that cutesy meaning stuff!!), suggestions??I planted the plant and placenta at the same time but the Camellia was originally in the ground. I gave the placenta a fair bit of space below the root ball of the plant.I am a keen gardener (yet dont know too much) and I would think as a rule anything that likes blood and bone should do fine. A native (like a Grevillea) should be an exception. I think Marys advice re staged planting is very sound.Perhaps ask what plants like rich soil and blood and bone type additions.Justine6 HB babes all with/to have planted placentas (and I said placenta planting was hippy when first introduced to HB rituals, Ah how we eat our words!) No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/266 - Release Date: 21/02/2006
Fw: [ozmidwifery] fear
As there seems to be some problem with some emails not getting through I am re-sending this one Sue - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fear Ceri I have often cared for women who have resisted, or not felt any urge to push - some that have actively refused, and ended up with forceps lift outs. It was interesting to see the result for the woman I spoke of, and I can think of many other times when talking a situation through with a labouring woman has resolvedsome issue that is hindering them. Loved Lieve's story too. And I love hearing other midwives experiences as we enrich each other in this way. sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Ceri Katrina To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fear On 05/02/2006, at 12:36 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: "What is your biggest fear right now?" She didn't answer for a couple of contractions then suddenly burst out " My biggest fear is that I won't be able to birth the baby" What do you know - lip went and baby started to appear!This fascinates me too. Is is just a matter of verbalising that fear??? I know it sounds dumb, but most women when questioned say that they fear the pain.no denying that it is going to hurt, so is it a matter of just verbalising it??On a similar matter the last couple of weks, I have had 2 women simply stump me. One with an epidural, one without. Both reached 9 then 10 cms dilation, and decided they did not want to push. They were adament they did not want to push, that they wanted "the baby pulled out"!!! Despite reasurrance that they could do it, and that unless they were unwell or the baby distressed, they baby would NOT be pulled out and they certainly would not be taken for a LSCS, they continued to say "No I dont want to push", "I'm not going to push" "it is going to hurt too much!"They eventually had the baby when the next shift took over, but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this before?? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/251 - Release Date: 4/02/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support
Title: Message This is a fascinating thread I have a friend whose first birth was in a private hosp with epidural and forceps = no reason medically for the forceps and the epidural was not working well at that point.No one allowed her to push, she was made to wait for the doctor who then pulled the baby out. She was young and believed thatit was all normal, her ob came the next day and patted her on the knee and said "lucky you - no stitches, you must be very happy with that" She agreed at the time and went home believing she had had a good birth because she did not have stitches. Next pregnancy she experienced total panic and went to a different (and more empathetic ob, fortunately) and demanded an elective C/S. He had the insight to discuss the first birth in detail and assure her that things would be different this time - and they were. She had a very healing birth experience. My point is that the trauma she suffered was very real, but she was unable to identify this at the time of birth and agreed with all that the first birth had been fine.Ten years later she discusses this with me, a newly made friend, and the pain is still evident. I do believe that many OB's do not have the slightest idea how much they sometimes traumatise women, whether this is due to women NOT complaining at the time (at least not directly to the traumatiser) and very few who actually complain later either, or to their (often) blase and overbearing attitude - believing that the delivery of a live child is the only important outcome. Irecently had a situation where I personally wastraumatised by the brutality I witnessed, but the OB stated to me later that the woman was very happy with her care! This made me wonder about the discussion he had had with her and the slant he must have put on things, because I cannot imagine any woman being truly happy to have been subject to the assault that I witnessed. My CNM at the time told me that I could not state that the couple had been traumatised, because it was MY perception and theirs may have been different - true enough I guess but.:-( One only has to listen to women of all ages and backgrounds - we all love talking about our births, good or bad, the joy or the pain stays with us forever. On a more positive note - this week I was 2nd midwife at a delightful birth with a lovely couple. There was a persistent and prolonged 'anterior lip' and she seemed to take a very long time to get past that point. As I was just standing quietly awaiting I remembered something someone posted a while back and thought I would try it so I said to her "What is your biggest fear right now?" She didn't answer for a couple of contractions then suddenly burst out " My biggest fear is that I won't be able to birth the baby" What do you know - lip went and baby started to appear! So thanks to whoever it was who posted that one - it's good to tap into all this wonderful midwifery wisdom. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support Interestingly last year our South Australian Gov held an inquiry into post natal depression and direct links to birth- cs specifically. I sat there and listened to a private OB who said "none of my patients are unhappy with their cs". how would he know? when does he ask? who does he think he is? yes Andrea, the problem is a difficult one to address but I think there are definatley ways to start. Inclusion of PTSD during antenatal classes and a handout describing the difference between PND and PTSD; a list of possible contacts of support from outside the hospital and perhaps maybe one within. Find out if someone can be appointed a specific consumer relations counselor with expertise in PTSD and birth at the unit who acts as the consumers advocate or point of call, actively encourage any birthing woman (but especially those who have had difficult or emergency births) to contact this person to at least register their concerns regardless to when it happened. This person could also be used to document the cases and make links to particular behaviours or procedures that cause harm and even individuals who are repeat offenders in offending - then they could be encouraged or even enforced to get educated or get out. Units need to actively support the consumer groups in their area. Advertise the details of consumer groups and LISTEN to the group's findings and feedback-good, bad and ugly. Educate women about the realities of birth in our current system. This is a hard one as it would be easy to tell them that this is the way it can be but it doesn't need to be or worse, tell them this is the way it can be
Re: [ozmidwifery] wasIV Synto for 3rd stage now rectal temps
We put labels on our babies cots which are removed when they have passed urine, mec, also stickers for those on 4hrly obs/a/b's or other extra cares. A bit old fashioned perhaps but a simple andeffective visual reminder for all staff to check the first 24-48 hours cares. I remember being told that rectal temps were to check for imperforate anus but this was way back in the 70's during my training. Went out of style when a broken mercury thermometer was inserted one time! Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] wasIV Synto for 3rd stage now rectal temps Hi all, There are other ways to handle the risk of missing an imperforate anus.I knowa case of a baby dying from meconium ileus due to cystic fibrosis.It was quite some time before it was realised that the baby had not passed meconium.That workplace now has a sticker on the baby's chart which must be completed by 24hours post birth stating whether or not the baby has passed urine or meconium, and if not, to document that a paediatrician has been notified. (I could probably get you a sample if you would like to show it to your paed.) Then if any invasive measures are taken, at least they may be justified, rather than subjecting all babies to the indignity and discomfort of having something passed into their rectum. Kind regards, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Alesa KoziolSent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:37 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] wasIV Synto for 3rd stage now rectal temps Please be assured that I am not killing the messanger here...but really, are you really telling me that at your site all newborn infants are subjected to an invasive process because once upon a time a single baby had a problem? Alesa - Original Message - From: "sharon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage at the hospital i work in the paediatrician/neonatologist inisit on all newborns have a rectal temp done for the first temp. i have been told when questioning this from the clinical learning co-ordinator that there once was a baby who had a imperferated anus and this was not picked up until too late and the baby became very sick so it is protocol. also i was told that there is a difference in temperature as when i looked this subject up for my own interest if you take a temp axilla there is also many other factors which come into play such as the air temp and if the thermometer is accurately placed. the references i cant remember but the evidence suggested that for a accurate reading we should be taking temperatures rectally for infants and orally for adults not axilla and certainly not be the fold at the back of the newborns neck. regards - Original Message - From: "brendamanning" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage How amazing, rectal temps are so archaic ! I thought they went out with PR exams to assess dilation. Poor you ! Keep questioning, that's how change happenseventually. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: "Kylie Holden" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage All debates regarding active v. physiological third stage aside, I was referring to women who have had a jelco put in for whatever reason (IV antibiotics in labour, epidurals, etc). I completely agree with you Brenda, that the number of women who didn't get their "required" dose of synto and who go on and have a (semi) physiological third stage are evidence in favour of safe, "normal" 3rd stage. Unfortuately this particular hospital doesn't take too kindly to students coming in and questioning their protocols! We learnt that the hard way when we (as students) tried not to take babies first temps rectally...a protocol was soon put in place that this MUST occur! Kylie From: "brendamanning" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:18:48
[ozmidwifery] anniversary
Hello all Please indulge me. 13 years ago at this time exactly I was in labour with my youngest. After an elective C/S and a sucessful but totally medically managed VBAC, I was finally experiencing a truly normal labour. It still amazes me that even after 13 years I have such strong feelings about it, each year at this time I re-live the birth in my head and feel such joy at the memories.Sadly I do not have this memoryfor my two other childrens' births.I know that I will still be awake at 12.30 tonight which is the time she was born, and every stage of that evening is still so clear in my mind. I guess this is the reason wefeel so passionate about what we do, even those of us who have not had the experience, know how precious it is, and want as many women as possible to know this too. Ah well, tomorrow I have a new teenager in the family. Thanks for listening Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] belly dancing midwives:)
Yoga - great for flexibility and strengthening back muscles, plus just great for you all round Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] belly dancing midwives:) Hi all, I've just started work as a midwife and I think I need some exercise to strengthen my back, feeling a bit stiff after catching babies in the shower, bath, floor, birth stool ect. I think it is a sustainability issue of practice, a good strong back. I don't ever want my physical ability to dictate how a woman wants to birth. Anyone tried pilates or belly dancing? Any other good suggestions? Ta Julie:) No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 2/01/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] testing
Thanks Andrea but I am definitely missing some of the original posts - I see the replies so know that I haven't recieved the first ones Sue Happy New Year to all mid- listers "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] testing I think it is just the christmas new year lullAndreaOn 02/01/2006, at 12:47 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: I seem to be missing some posts - has the list been very quiet? Very few posts in the past few weeks, and some that are replies but I never recieved the originalsSue"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 2/01/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] testing
Nope! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Emily To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] testing did a post from me yesterday reach you all? it didnt come back to me and no replies so i dont think so... Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Andrea but I am definitely missing some of the original posts - I see the replies so know that I haven't recieved the first ones Sue Happy New Year to all mid- listers "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi ! To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] testing I think it is just the christmas new year lullAndreaOn 02/01/2006, at 12:47 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: I seem to be missing some posts - has the list been very quiet? Very few posts in the past few weeks, and some that are replies but I never recieved the originalsSue"The only thing necessary for the triump! h of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 2/01/2006 Yahoo! PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 2/01/2006
[ozmidwifery] testing
I seem to be missing some posts - has the list been very quiet? Very few posts in the past few weeks, and some that are replies but I never recieved the originals Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Petition to Save the RWH Vic Family Birth Centre
- Original Message -
From:
jo
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:23
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Petition to
Save the RWH Vic Family Birth Centre
This is an extremely important
petition for womens choice, and the health and wellbeing of women and babies
through availability of evidence-based Midwifery care during normal pregnancy
and birth. PLEASE read, sign, and forward to EVERYONE you know, regardless of
where they live (the issue of choice and quality Maternity care knows no
boundaries). When the petition reaches 100 signatures, please forward back to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and continue to forward the
petition on to everyone you know, beginning again at 1. The completed
petitions will be forwarded to the Royal Womens Hospital and local and
federal government. United we are strong together we CAN make a
difference!
The Royal Womens Hospital (RWH)
in Melbourne
is planning to close its Family Birth Centre (FBC), allegedly due to "cost
ineffectiveness". This is the latest in a long line of government
sanctioned birth facility closures.The FBC provides free public care
from a small, personal and highly skilled team of Midwifes, for women enjoying
a normal pregnancy and who go on to experience a normal birth (ie: no major
medical complications). The FBC provides a "home-like" environment, with
large, friendly private rooms that contain double beds for partners to stay
in; a deep bath and multiple showers for use in labour; expert evidence-based
Midwifery care; and a million little touches that encourage a positive and low
intervention birth experience (CD players and aromatherapy burners in every
room for use during labour, birth balls, birth stools, beanbags, floormats,
soft lighting for the room during labour, a "rooming in" policy for newborns
and parents, an early discharge program, minimal medical apparatus and
intervention during labour, a higher Midwife to birthing woman ratio than the
labour and delivery ward, etc).
The Hospital is now planning to
"streamline" their birthing women into "low risk" and "high risk", all in the
labour and delivery ward, where there are no private rooms, no homely touches,
no double beds, no standard "rooming in" of newborns, lower staff to birthing
woman ratios, far higher interventions, less availability of natural birthing
aides such as bath, shower, etc.
The planned closure of the FBC is
a travesty against informed choice and birthing options for
women.
Whilst a Hospital Birth Centre is
still intrinsically a Hospital environment, and there are some similarities
between the FBC and the labour ward, the differences are vast, and it is those
differences that set apart the FBC from the labour ward and necessitate its
ongoing existence. It is what the FBC represents, and what it is a stepping
stone towards (in terms of societal acceptance of normal birth and midwifery
care based in evidence) that matters - and that is damaged severely by this
closure. The statistics, research and evidence overwhelmingly support Birth
Centre care for normal ("low risk") pregnancy and birth; yet this highly
popular, healthy and successful option is now being removed from women's
reach, due to "cost ineffectiveness" (which has got to lead to serious
concerns in respect to ethical conflict of interest; when a low intervention
facility is closed because the Hospital is not making enough money from it,
does this mean the Hospital makes more money from intervening in birth? A
logical conclusion can only be yes, that is exactly what this closure means.
And what does this mean for the health and wellbeing of those women who are
receiving these profitable, but medically unnecessary,
interventions?).
If the way we birth our children,
and a womans right to choose how she wishes to birth, matters to you (and it
should matter to ALL OF US), please add your voice to this cause by signing
the petition. The longrange effects of this massive backwards trend are dire.
Birthing choices are being cut every year, and the marks are being left on the
vulnerable women and babies in our system.
It is our responsibility to do
something sign and be a "Friend of the RWH Vic
FBC"!!
SAVE THE RWH (Vic) FAMILY BIRTH
CENTRE!!!
1. Felicity Dowker, Melbourne, Victoria
2. Janet Fraser, Melbourne, Victoria
3. Liz
Wilkes, Toowoomba QLD
4. Leah Palmer-Johnstone,
Spring Creek, Gatton,
Queensland
5. Jo Hunter, Blue
Mtns, NSW
6.Susan
Cudlipp, Perth WA
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1.1321 (20051213) Information __This message was checked by
NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com
Yahoo! Groups
[ozmidwifery] normal birth in the media - for a change
Hi all I was looking through a recent women's magazine while having my hair done yesterday (only time I read them!) and was very pleased to see not one but two stories of celebs having normal births. Bec Cartwright was quoted as having such a speedy labour that she was in doubts of getting to the hospital on time, and Rod Stewarts latest wife who had a drug-free water birth and described it as "the most empowering and spiritual experience of her life" Not earth shattering news I know but encouraging to read somethingother than surgical birth in the magazines for a change, and good to hear celebs beingpositive role models. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Hm I guess for elective C/S when the woman has no other option it is certainly a better birth experience for both mum and bub, and would require so little extra effort, just a bit of lateral thinking. BUT to make it sound all so romantic is dangerous - gives more fuel to the 'too posh to push' brigade. Still surgical birth! Isn't it amazing how they can switch from one extreme to another - actually proposing that delayed cord separation is now beneficial. Radical stuff! Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Lea Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:13 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] article FYI http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,7890,1656341,00.html A British doctor is challenging convention to pioneer the 'natural' caesarean. Joanna Moorhead watched one baby's slow and gentle arrival Saturday December 3, 2005 The Guardian The scent of lavender fills the air and classical music is playing quietly. On the bed, Jax Martin-Betts, 42, is calm, focused and in control. With the birth of her second child just minutes away, the midwife, Jenny Smith, is giving her a massage. Her husband, Teady McErlean, is whispering words of encouragement: just a tiny bit longer, and our baby will be in our arms! It could be a natural birth at any maternity unit in Britain, but we are in an operating theatre at Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea hospital in west London, and the birth we are about to witness sounds a contradiction in terms: a natural caesarean section. Jax has been on the theatre table for half an hour, and the obstetrician, Professor Nick Fisk, has almost completed the incisions through her abdominal wall and into her uterus. OK, the baby is about to be born, he says. Let's prop you up so you can see him coming out. Smith removes the blue drape between Jax's head and her belly, and the head of the bed is lifted to give Jax a clear view. Fisk cuts into the amniotic sac and a fountain of fluid rises into the air before he rummages around to locate the baby's head. In a few seconds it comes into view, covered with the milky-white vernix that has protected it in the womb. For the next few moments, the atmosphere in the theatre is electric: Jax and Teady gasp in wonder at their new son, who is now looking around, although his lower body and legs are still inside his mother's uterus. This groundbreaking approach to surgical delivery - Fisk calls it a skin-to-skin caesarean, or walking the baby out - has been pioneered by him partly in response to the rising caesarean rate, which according to recent statistics reached a new high at 22.7% (of deliveries in England, 2003-04). Whatever your view on caesareans, for some women it's always going to be the safest choice, he explains. And while couples having normal deliveries have been given more and more opportunities to be fully involved in childbirth, very little has been done to see how we could make the experience more meaningful for those having caesareans. As Fisk started to examine the conventions of surgical delivery, he was struck by how easily they could be challenged. Why, for example, did they need to be done so quickly, when slowing them down would give the parents more chance to participate in their child's delivery and might give the baby a gentler experience of coming into the world? Why, too, was it so important for the parents to be screened off from the mother's abdomen? And was it really essential for the baby to be whisked off for an immediate medical examination, rather than delivered into the arms of his mother? What I realised was that caesareans were done a certain way because they've always been done a certain way, but in fact they can be done differently - and in a way that parents love, says Fisk. Other doctors are sometimes shocked when they hear what he is doing. They say, but surely you have to get the baby out fast so she can get oxygen straight away? And I say, when the baby is being born she's still attached to the umbilical cord and is still getting oxygen from the placenta. Caesarean birth can be gentle, just as vaginal birth can be gentle. Obstetricians are too hung up on getting from the point of incision to the birth of the baby as quickly as possible: that's been the benchmark of a skilled surgeon. But I'm challenging that because, from the baby's and from the parents' point of view, it's not very helpful. There's also a view that because the baby's chest hasn't been squeezed going through the birth canal, there are greater risks of breathing difficulties. But by leaving the baby's body inside the uterus for longer once the head is out, the body is squeezed and you see the lung liquid coming out of the baby's nose. Unless there are other risk factors, I've never known a baby born by my method to have
Re: [ozmidwifery] CF screening
In my experience, both professionally and personally, yes, there certainly is pressure to terminate once given a positive result. I do know mothers of DS and other syndrome babies who have the test next time round, NOT to terminate, but to prepare against the shock at birth. This is certainly a valid reason for some, but many doctors in particular cannot understand anyone continuing a pregnancy if the baby were to be 'defective'. It is a brave couple indeed who continue with their pregnancy in the face of this. There is a brilliant book "Expecting Adam" by Martha Beck which is the story of one couple in this situation. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Ken WArd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] CF screening The article is great, and I wish I'd had it for antenatal visits. So many women think if they have all the tests they'll have a ok baby. We pushed the tests, even though we were supposed to be low intervention. Have the tests if you want, as Robyn says, it doesn't mean you have to terminate. Can anyone tell us if there is pressure following a positive result? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy ChapmanSent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 3:13 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CF screening This article on the birthinternational site is good for decisions re downs, I am sure it could be extrapolated to CF. http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/dietsch01.html Cheers JudyRobyn Dempsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who says that because testing is available, that you have to terminate? The testing allows choice. My sister has made friends who have children with CF, they knew they carried the gene and took the attitude " I know what to do with CF kids, it doesn't bother me". On! ce again, I read judgment. Testing allows choice.the choice to terminate, or the choice to prepare for a child with extra needs. Robyn D Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Music: Vote on Who's Next and see your favourite band live No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] CF screening
I agree - please don't make judgements in the case of inherited disorders. I too carry a faulty gene (not CF)which has affected all 3 of my children. While I love them all dearly and do not regret their lives, I do know that I would NOT have chosen this path willingly. I was not able to test for the first 2, did test for the 3rd, but was informed (wrongly as it turns out) that females are not affected. Knowing several families with CF and the battles they face both in testing issues and in raising affected children I could not judge anyone who did not feel that they wanted to continue with a pregnancy if the child were to have a serious problem. It is true that all lives are meaningful and that all children should be valued, sadly society still has a very long way to go before that ideal is commonplace practice. I have met with much ignorance and discrimination regarding my kids, their lives are compromised, they will always require care. They have taught me much and have touched many lives, those who take the time to know them value them deeply, however, not everyone does. I have met many angels and many ogres! Raising such children takes a huge commitment physically, emotionally and financially,and you fight battles every day to make their world a better place. I have often cared for women who have chosen to terminate a child with a genetic fault, as part of my job, and I pride myself on giving them the best care I can, without judgement on their decision. I figure they have had a hard enough time coming to that place without that. I have also had the great joy of caring for women who have chosen to continue regardless. With all of these I share some of my own experience so that they will know that others have found themselves in similar circumstances. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer in such situations. People have to come to their own choice according to their own circumstances, beliefs and consciences, then they have to find peace with that choice, either way it is not easy. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Robyn Dempsey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] CF screening My niece has cystic fibrosis. She has had over 10 hospitalizations in her 3 years of life. Her mum ( my sister) does the physiotherapy for her every day and night. My niece has to take many preparations as she doesn't absorb fats, which means vitamin deficiencies are common. My niece has a permanent pseudo infection in her lungs, this flares up if she gets a cold, which results in a hospital stay. My sister avoids gatherings ( family), if someone is sick. My sister has had so much time off work because she needed to care for my niece, that she gave up work to look after her. My sister has decided not to have any more children, as she feels 2 with CF would be too hard. ( being able to give to both the attention they need). I'm sure she would opt for the testingdon't judge unless you've been in the situation. Robyn Dempsey No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
[ozmidwifery] Re CF screening
"I was just trying to imagine how I would feel if I was a sick child who read an article about how a test is available, which wasnt there at the time I was born. Im sure Id be thinking about how miserable my parents actually are because of me, since some would take the test and have an abortion because of a child just like myself and would wonder whether my mom would have had an abortion with me had she lived in a time when a test was available. But this is just me and my thoughts." This is also very true!Screening is acomplex issue indeed. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] POP statistics
In my experience, the vast majority of OP labours do rotate to OA eventually, especially in Multips. I used to see a great many more face to pubes births than I have in recent years - possibly due to denser epidurals in the past, in fact the only ones I can think of in the past 5 years or so have been forceps deliveries, even then they usually rotate them with Keillands forceps before bringing them out. My last 3 births have all been OP labours rotating to OA on the pelvic floor - the last one was a 10lb baby who you could actually see spinning as he advanced. I remember with amusement this being discussed at the homebirth conference at Yanchep some years ago and Ina May Gaskin was asked what they did on the farm with OP's She replied " Oh well, y'know, no-one ever told us this was supposed to be a problem"! Also watching an American TV medical doco some years back where the OB was taking the woman to theatre and he paused to explain to the TV crew why she could not deliver this baby vaginally as it was OP. While he was explaining this she gave an almighty yell and shot the baby out on the theatre trolley. Love it! Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] POP statistics I'm fascinated to hear you don't see any, Sue, because there seems to be an epidemic in the hospy system and it's rapidly becoming an excuse to c-sec like breech. Great work you're doing! : ) J - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] POP statistics Hi Brenda,Just been taught that 5% stay OP of the 10-15% that present as OP.NO research to support that, only texts.Other stats suggest that up to 20% births begin as OP - Jean Sutton's optimum positioning info.Hope this helps,I haven't seen an OP in 23 years of homebirths - pretty careful with positions in pregnancy and info to help mums to rotate their babies prior to labour.Sue Information seeking.. please ozmidders Does anyone have stats (or know where to access them)on the percentage of posterior babies who rotate during labour or whilst birthing ? Esprelevant toMg with SVDs previously ? How many babies actually remain OP do ore don'tobstruct how many rotate birth spontaneously ? Any help greatly appreciated. With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] rooming in
I totally agree with you Brenda. It is part of our caring role for the time the mothers are with us to be flexible to their needs. We have a 'rooming in' policy and the babies are with mum the majority of the time, but I get annoyed when this is used as a reason NOT to take the babies when mum requests a break, or if it is evident that they need one. They go back for breast feeds, but we can change nappies and cuddle a restless bub when we are not busy, as you say, we are being paid to stay awake and any new mum usually needs to catch up on some sleep. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] rooming in I work some night duty in a small unit if mothers ask me to 'mind' their babies take them back for feeds overnight then I do, willingly. I'm heavily into nurturing women, odd eh ?? The Mums know what they want, if they need to sleep, why would I say no ? I am being paid to stay awake care for women babies, that's what we do ! If they want us to mind their babies we do, it might be the only uninterrupted sleep they get for months. We don't ever 'take' the babies away, but always respond when asked unless we are flat out. Are we wrong to help out when requested ? When we take the babies back for feeds, we help with the nappy changing if needed, sit with the Mums,make them tea, provide analgesia or hotpacks give them something to eat after feeds. Isn't that just a huge basic part of 'caring for women' OR 'mothering the mother' ? Wouldn't our mothers do that for us if they were around for the feeds in the wee small hours ? Or would our support people shut the door say go for it, see you in the morning Welcome to motherhood ! How supportive is that ? Wrong again ??? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: islips [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] rooming in The obs dont like the idea of mucousy babies staying in the rooms with mums. However in most cases where the woman has had a c/s we get the fathers to stay the night to help out. There were other issues such as unwell mums etc. The women who complained were all multis and basic reason was that they were tierd. Last time i checked i was a midwife not a nanny Since we implemented the rooming in policy our primips are BF better and going home so much more confident. It will be a shame if it goes back. Zoe - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] rooming in Just a query? What are the obst's complaints based on - the same 3 mothers complaints? No doubt they were tired and wanted a bit of rest!! Welcome to motherhood. From: islips [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] rooming in Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:56:48 +0800 I wonder if someone can help me put together some stats regarding 'rooming in' . I work at a large private hospital in Perth . We recently closed our night nursery and implemented a 'rooming in policy'. This has worked very well in enhancing BF , mothercrafting etc. However due to 3 mothers and 3 obs complaining it looks as though we will have to change the policy. we have a meeting on tuesday and i would like to present some current research to the medical profession regarding the benefits of rooming in. thanks zoe - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:28 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] question Jenny, could you give us the reference please? Thanks, MM -- , one study demonstrated zero oxygen, because there is no longer any utero-placental circulation. This is part of the stimulation for the baby to breathe, but the baby is receiving some circulatory volume. Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified!
Interesting thought - I was recently talking with an aquaintance who is seeing a private ob. She is already being 'primed' for C/S (at 30 wks, primip) due to gestational diabetes. I discussed some of the actual evidence with her and she said that she had learned more in 10 minutes on the phone than in all her A/N visits to date. Went on to say that the A/N visits made her feel patronised, bullied, and upset. I asked her if she would pay any other service-provider $100 a time to be made to feel so unsatisfied and suggested that she 'vote with her feet' and find another place to have her baby. She was surprised to think that it could be an option to change at this stage, and this is a well-educated and professional woman who is actually providing me with a service, so I said that if she made me feel as bad about accessing her service as her ob was making her feel, I would certainly be looking elsewhere! Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified! Kelly if you're around enough hospy birthing mamas you hear all this and more regularly. I'm always puzzled by what crap service women are prepared to submit to without protesting or looking for a better way. Maybe when we're actually liberated from our Nice Girl Shackles and have some rights as citizens things will be different. I often ask women whether or not they liked their Ob and mostly they don't, and mostly they're hurt or distressed by actions or words from that Ob but they're going back next time. Um yeah... Stockholm Syndrome? J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified! Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies, it was a huge shock to me but I guess, sadly, that many of you are well used to this. I haven't heard from the woman since Saturday so chances are she's gone into labour. I pray it all went as well as she hoped. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 1:25 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified! Yes, she can turn up to any public hospital with midwifery services and not be turned away. Tell her to have a copy of antenatal paperwork she has (if she has it!!) and the midwives at the hospital can ring her orginal booking hospital and get any records/pathology faxed over - or at least that has happened to us in the past. This is the sort of obs who needs a complaint written about him!! But it will turn into a he said, she said situation. If she goes back to him, take another person with her!! Cheryl From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Absolutely horrified! Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:44:48 +1100 One of the girls in my forums here in Melbourne just posted this - no wonder she seemed upset when I saw her yesterday - I had no idea at the time: I have just had the worst night of my life, and its taken me 3 hours to stop crying uncontrollably. My Dr, who I've been seeing throughout my pg is on leave (bereavement), and since I'm at 41 weeks, the midwives I'm seeing sent me to see the OB who's filling in for him. So I go for my appt. First, he does a stretch sweep without asking me or any prior warning. Then he says he's booking me in to be induced tomorrow, which when I questioned it he tells me I'm going to kill my baby cos I'm past 41 weeks. The he goes on to say 'I'm not into any of that airy fairy [EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll deliver on the bed, on your back. I'm not a vet.' So I said I was planning an active birth, (which is what my Dr prefers) and he says I'll have to see someone else and good luck getting in to see anyone else at this stage of the game. So now I have no obstetrician, no doctor and I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm seriously thinkg about fronting up tomorrow at the Royal Womens to see if I can have my baby there instead of the hospital I'm booked in at - can they turn you away if its a public hospital? This is appalling - beyond belief. my blood is boiling it really is.. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ www.bellybelly.com.au http://www.toys4tikes.com.au/ www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -- This mailing list is sponsored
Re: [ozmidwifery] question
I can understand not waiting too long when you feel
there is dystocia, however it seems that many Drs are interpreting that as not
waiting for restitution AT ALL. In normal mechanics restitution happens
soon after the birth of the head and internal rotation of shoulders with the
next contraction, unless the contractions are a great time apart i.e. as in
uterine inertia, the healthy baby can certainly afford to wait a minute or two
between head and shoulders, it is usually only that. I do remember
onebirth when the contractions had slowed right down in 2nd stage to about
7 minutes apart and had become quite weak, the ob was in the room and we did get
a bit stuck on the shoulders but he performed manual internal rotation and the
baby came out OK.I thought then that the shoulder dystocia was more
2' to the poor uterine effort in that instance, had the contractions been
expulsive and frequent I don't think it would have happened.
And, as we've been discussing, the placenta may be
beginning to separate, but it is still supplying O2 rich blood.
I found the points about stillborn baby with normal
Ph and -what we have all seen many times- babies with no apparent signs of
distress in labour coming out 'flat' to be very thought provoking.
An interesting thread indeed
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Jenny
Cameron
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:16
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question
Remember the placenta is beginning to separate at
the point of the head being born so the baby is dying of hypoxia and acidosis.
ALSO are probably correct on not waiting for restitution. The signs of
shoulder dystocia are evident before the head is crowned and then the 'turtle'
sign appears and clinches the diagnosis so it is full steam ahead and get that
baby born. You could wait all day for restitution and end up with a dead baby.
Jenny
Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPresident NT branch ACMIPO Box
1465Howard Springs NT 083508 8983 19260419 528 717
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:32
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
question
Good point Anne!
I did quite a thorough search last night and
have printed off some good articles which I will pass on. However I
could not find the answer to why EXACTLY babies die in shoulder
dystocia. If it is asphyxia, then (obs point of view) this proves that
the cord is not sustaining them.The ob said to me that if the cord
WERE sustaining them there would be no urgency to deliver the body, also
quoted from the ALSO course that the fetal Ph drops 0.04 (?) per
minute after delivery of head therefor we should not be waiting for
restitution but delivering body ASAP. (I didn't even go
there!!)
My feeling is that it is more to do with
probable cord compression, (although I cannot picture why this should
necessarily be so as the body and hence, presumably, the cord,would
still be above the pelvic brim) and trauma to the neck usually caused by
mis-management (panic) in trying to deliver the shoulders than asphyxia, but
it is true that they become asphyxiated within a short time if truly
stuck. Any answers on that one?
Thanks
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Anne
Clarke
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005
5:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
question
Dear Susan,
You could say to them if this is so why do
they rely so much on cord ph's ? One would thinkwhen the baby
was born and the pulsating cord was still not supplying the baby
effectively the cord blood (venous and arterial) was null and void to
providean estimation of oxygenation for the babe.
RegardsAnne ClarkeQueensland
- Original Message -
From:
Susan Cudlipp
To: midwifery list
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005
9:30 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery]
question
I have a question for youwise
ozmidders.
I was having a discussion today with one of
our obstetricians regarding cord clamping, and the benefits to the baby
of delaying this until pulsations cease. When I mentioned the
benefit of the baby recieving oxygenated blood via the pulsating cord
which could assist it's transition to independent respiration
particularly if it was compromis
Re: [ozmidwifery] question
of evil is
for good men to do nothing"Edmund
Burke
- Original Message -
From: Anne
Clarke
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent:
Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:54 AM
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] question
Dear
Susan,
You could say to them if this
is so why do they rely so much on cord ph's ? One would
thinkwhen the baby was born and the pulsating cord was still not
supplying the baby effectively the cord blood (venous and arterial) was
null and void to providean estimation of oxygenation for the
babe.
RegardsAnne ClarkeQueensland
- Original Message -
From: Susan
Cudlipp
To: midwifery list
Sent:
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject:
[ozmidwifery] question
I have a question for
youwise ozmidders.
I was having a discussion
today with one of our obstetricians regarding cord clamping, and the
benefits to the baby of delaying this until pulsations cease. When
I mentioned the benefit of the baby recieving oxygenated blood via the
pulsating cord which could assist it's transition to independent
respiration particularly if it was compromised (etc etc) the obs
was of the view that the pulsations could NOT be providing oxygenated
blood because the uterus would have contracted down and the placenta
could no longer be getting oxygen from mother's
circulation.
Now I know that I have read
reams on this and this is stated to be one of the benefits, but I could
not answer that particular question physiologically and
convincingly.
The point was also raised
that in shoulder dystocia, babies die of asphyxiation, which (obs
opinion) would not happen if they were recieving oxygen via the
cord.
I did print off George
Morley's excellent papers for this Dr to read but would very much
welcome anything that can show that the baby would still be receiving
oxygenated blood post birth.
TIA
Sue
"The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund
Burke
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Information __This message was checked by NOD32
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Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date:
16/11/2005
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16/11/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] question
That makes sense also Jo - Thanks "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question Susan Cudlipp wrote: Good point Anne! I did quite a thorough search last night and have printed off some good articles which I will pass on. However I could not find the answer to why EXACTLY babies die in shoulder dystocia. If it is asphyxia, then (obs point of view) this proves that the cord is not sustaining them.The ob said to me that if the cord WERE sustaining them there would be no urgency to deliver the body, also quoted from the ALSO course that the fetal Ph drops 0.04 (?) per minute after delivery of head therefor we should not be waiting for restitution but delivering body ASAP. (I didn't even go there!!) My feeling is that it is more to do with probable cord compression, (although I cannot picture why this should necessarily be so as the body and hence, presumably, the cord,would still be above the pelvic brim) and trauma to the neck usually caused by mis-management (panic) in trying to deliver the shoulders than asphyxia, but it is true that they become asphyxiated within a short time if truly stuck. Any answers on that one? Thanks Sue From what I remember being taught, the reason SD causes such a problem is because the chest is compressed, and the heart cannon function properly. I can't see the cord being a problem, as if the shoulder(s) are behind the symphysis pubis, then the cord would be further into the uterus, and therefore protected - unless there is a nuchal cord?Jo No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: 16/11/2005
[ozmidwifery] question
I have a question for youwise ozmidders. I was having a discussion today with one of our obstetricians regarding cord clamping, and the benefits to the baby of delaying this until pulsations cease. When I mentioned the benefit of the baby recieving oxygenated blood via the pulsating cord which could assist it's transition to independent respiration particularly if it was compromised (etc etc) the obs was of the view that the pulsations could NOT be providing oxygenated blood because the uterus would have contracted down and the placenta could no longer be getting oxygen from mother's circulation. Now I know that I have read reams on this and this is stated to be one of the benefits, but I could not answer that particular question physiologically and convincingly. The point was also raised that in shoulder dystocia, babies die of asphyxiation, which (obs opinion) would not happen if they were recieving oxygen via the cord. I did print off George Morley's excellent papers for this Dr to read but would very much welcome anything that can show that the baby would still be receiving oxygenated blood post birth. TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
