Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Good Idea. NB: At least this is a possitive response rather than being defensive. Regards Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 16:30:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) What about the possibility of child care within the hospital? I can hear the screams of budget budget, etc. Yet it's not such a far-fetched idea. How many people need to use hospitals and have to have their children looked after? Would it be a nightmare? Aviva --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear Debbie, Oh how sad for you. It is just so unfair when a baby dies. My grandmother lost her first baby after a prem birth at home alone. As she sat waiting for the Dr to come she held the baby - this is going back almost 70yrs. And she even now recalls what her baby girl looked like. She said that she held her tiny hand and traced her lifeline. When the Dr came she said to him, "Why has she got a lifeline?" He never answered her but it was aprivelage to hear her story which she relayed to me after the birth of my daughter at 27weeks. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 01:19:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda wrote: This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child.When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care.So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help.To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born.She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him.This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her.With my second son I went into labour prematurely (30 weeks). We had made no plans, and it was all very quick, so our elder son - Daniel - came with us.Daniel was just one week beyond his 1st birthday, and I clearly remember my poor husband trying to help me while holding Daniel in his arms.Sadly, our son died, and I do remember very clearly all the wonderful midwives and other staff who cared for our son while we held our new baby and said goodbye. I think he subsisted on orange juice and cookies :-)Daniel is always quick to mention that he was at his brother's birth - although I'm pretty sure he has no memory of it.Debbie SlaterPerth, WA IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Aviva, what a wonderful idea, one I've thought of on several occasions. There is a real need for the workers (ie the midwives/nurses etc) to have access to a service like this, if we are to strive for a truly woman-friendly workplace, and so to follow that thought through and offer it to the women seems logical to me! Tania - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) What about the possibility of child care within the hospital? I can hear the screams of budget budget, etc. Yet it's not such a far-fetched idea. How many people need to use hospitals and have to have their children looked after? Would it be a nightmare? Aviva --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
The hospital I used to work at in Perth has child care but of course it's only during the day - mainly to cater for women coming to AN appts I think. Everyone knows that major crises of any nature NEVER happen during office hours. Furthermore, if they are going to start looking at childcare within the hospital - how about on site childcare for the STAFF to use? Kirsten - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) What about the possibility of child care within the hospital? I can hear the screams of budget budget, etc. Yet it's not such a far-fetched idea. How many people need to use hospitals and have to have their children looked after? Would it be a nightmare? Aviva --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
ÿþ< ! D O C T Y P E H T M L P U B L I C " - / / W 3 C / / D T D H T M L 4 . 0 T r a n s i t i o n a l / / E N " > < H T M L > < H E A D > < M E T A c o n t e n t = " t e x t / h t m l ; c h a r s e t = u n i c o d e " h t t p - e q u i v = C o n t e n t - T y p e > < M E T A c o n t e n t = " M S H T M L 5 . 0 0 . 2 0 1 4 . 2 1 0 " n a m e = G E N E R A T O R > < S T Y L E > < / S T Y L E > < / H E A D > < B O D Y b g C o l o r = # f f f f f f > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > D e a r A v i v a ! < / F O N T > < / D I V > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > I t o o d o n o t u n d e r s t a n d w h y h o s p i t a l s d o n ' t h a v e c h i l d c a r e c e n t r e s f o r b o t h t h e s t a f f a n d p a t i e n t s . & n b s p ; H a v i n g w o r k e d i n a t o t a l l y u n r e l a t e d b u s i n e s s w i t h 3 0 0 0 s t a f f m e m b e r s a n d p r o v i d i n g c h e a p c h i l d c a r e f o r t h e i r s t a f f 2 4 h o u r s p e r d a y , I d o n ' t u n d e r s t a n d w h y h o s p i t a l s c a n ' t d o t h e s a m e . & n b s p ; M a y e v e n f i x t h e s t a f f i n g p r o b l e m m a n y h o s p i t a l s f a c e . & n b s p ; A l s o m o r e m i d w i v e s m a y b e h a p p y t o w o r k o n c a l l i f t h i s o p t i o n w a s a v a i l a b l e ! < / F O N T > < / D I V > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > L o v e S o n j a < / F O N T > < / D I V > < / B O D Y > < / H T M L >
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Of course child care for staff too! Is this all so obvious nobody thought about it, or has it been thrown around and out? Aviva - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) The hospital I used to work at in Perth has child care but of course it's only during the day - mainly to cater for women coming to AN appts I think. Everyone knows that major crises of any nature NEVER happen during office hours. Furthermore, if they are going to start looking at childcare within the hospital - how about on site childcare for the STAFF to use? Kirsten --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
I used to work in a New Zealand hospital in the late 70s and there was a hospital creche way back then - it had the best reputation and breastfeeding nurses/ physios etc were simply called when the little ones needed mummy and it was taken for granted that they would whip off to feed or have lunch with their kids - it was for staff only though. Mind you I think it can be confusing for children to be suddenly "dumped" with strangers at any major time of change without some preparation -it could be traumatic to a toddler to be popped in the care of complete strangers then confronted with a new sibling so really not appropriate except in emergencies Pinky - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Of course child care for staff too! Is this all so obvious nobody thought about it, or has it been thrown around and out? Aviva - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) The hospital I used to work at in Perth has child care but of course it's only during the day - mainly to cater for women coming to AN appts I think. Everyone knows that major crises of any nature NEVER happen during office hours. Furthermore, if they are going to start looking at childcare within the hospital - how about on site childcare for the STAFF to use? Kirsten --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Yes, I'd agree with that! could be bad enough for some adults! aviva Mind you I think it can be confusing for children to be suddenly "dumped" with strangers at any major time of change without some preparation -it could be traumatic to a toddler to be popped in the care of complete strangers then confronted with a new sibling so really not appropriate except in emergencies Pinky --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing
staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER
AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in
court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running
around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year
old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or
dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his
busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a
delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the
lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the
other kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
[Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every
effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad
timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding
and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her
labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that
she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she
was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her
uncomfortable.
Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this
woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any
assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the
hospital - personally.
4 hours being her longest labour.
No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who
found the light switch.
I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital
births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL
Rhonda.
If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be
laughing!
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 19:35:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda,
with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a
hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will
take the attitude that they're not required to look after the
child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very
anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room.
It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no
special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not
wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the
mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for
the mother's needs first.
Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special
dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older
children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on
their faces is simply fabulous as they take in an adult version of real
life.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002
5:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:
[Children Present at Births)
This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her
2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child.
When she went into labour she could not get hold of her
back up child care.
So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old -
trying to call for someone to help.
To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old
running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on
while baby was born.
She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with
loking after him.
This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs
about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between
pushing.
He was totally unprepared and a little too young to
be unattended while Dad helped her.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda wrote: This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. With my second son I went into labour prematurely (30 weeks). We had made no plans, and it was all very quick, so our elder son - Daniel - came with us. Daniel was just one week beyond his 1st birthday, and I clearly remember my poor husband trying to help me while holding Daniel in his arms. Sadly, our son died, and I do remember very clearly all the wonderful midwives and other staff who cared for our son while we held our new baby and said goodbye. I think he subsisted on orange juice and cookies :-) Daniel is always quick to mention that he was at his brother's birth - although I'm pretty sure he has no memory of it. Debbie Slater Perth, WA
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I partic
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Perhaps this is another reason why Home Birth is so much better as
the children can go and play with their toys and not dismantle hospital
equipment.
Rhonda
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, November
26, 2002 23:47:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing
staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF
MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends
up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as
toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a
family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of
him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that
could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well
prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older
children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered
me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other
kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made
every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone
(just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some
understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she
could just put off her labour until the babysitter came
home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have
him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that
he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable.
Also it does not take much effort to help especially with
this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without
any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went
to the hospital - personally.
4 hours being her longest
labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an
unattended 2yr old who found the light switch.
I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4
hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about!
LOL
Rhonda.
If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would
all be laughing!
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 19:35:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda,
with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at
a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff
will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the
child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very
anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery
room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when
there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not
that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of
attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a
midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first.
Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra
special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove
having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things
with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as they take in
an adult version of real life.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 25,
2002 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery]
Re: [Children Present
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
where I have worked in the past the rule of thumb has been: have someone to
care for the child, even if they are coming to the birth. That means, if your
child is attending you need to have a support person dedicated to caring for the
child. If your partner is your only support person, and your child needs care,
then your partner has to care for the child, regardless of whether that means
they need to leave the birthing room.
In these days of staff shortages in many hospitals I think that's pretty
fair. As a midwife I cannot be 'with' the woman completely if I'm also dealing
with her preschooler.
Kirsten
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:34
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children
Present at Births)
Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing
staff did not help her with the tot.
And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living
about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to
helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had
offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old
and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I
guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr
old would be less trouble for the staff.
I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the
familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance
with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or
not.
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday,
November 26, 2002 23:47:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing
staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF
MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and
ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such
as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for
a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared
of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one
myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I
agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too
love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights
wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the
other kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have
made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact
anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would
expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff -
not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter
came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to
have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also
feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her
uncomfortable.
Also it does not take much effort to help especially with
this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without
any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went
to the hospital - personally.
4 hours being her longest
labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an
unattended 2yr old who found the light switch.
I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4
hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about!
LOL
Rhonda.
If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would
all be laughing!
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 19:35:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[ozmid
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
" Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the
familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the
toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not."
You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky (
except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although
it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be
developing within maternity units. And propagatedby misguided managers who
think it's good for business.
I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just
verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are
caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives
carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed
by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals (
like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work,
doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere
in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her
partner find meaning in their birth.
I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do
everything that I can to make thelittleone feel part of the
party,but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much.
Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have
met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's
a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want
to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and
her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the
line.
Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more
manageable and satisfying.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children
Present at Births)
Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing
staff did not help her with the tot.
And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living
about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to
helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had
offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old
and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I
guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr
old would be less trouble for the staff.
I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the
familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance
with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or
not.
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday,
November 26, 2002 23:47:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing
staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF
MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and
ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such
as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for
a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared
of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one
myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I
agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too
love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights
wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the
other kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have
made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact
anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would
expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff -
not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter
came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to
have him there etc
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
He! He!
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 12:42 AMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:
[Children Present at Births)
Perhaps this is another reason why Home Birth is so much better as
the children can go and play with their toys and not dismantle hospital
equipment.
Rhonda
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday,
November 26, 2002 23:47:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing
staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF
MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and
ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such
as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for
a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared
of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one
myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I
agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too
love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights
wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the
other kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have
made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact
anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would
expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff -
not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter
came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to
have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also
feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her
uncomfortable.
Also it does not take much effort to help especially with
this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without
any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went
to the hospital - personally.
4 hours being her longest
labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an
unattended 2yr old who found the light switch.
I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4
hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about!
LOL
Rhonda.
If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would
all be laughing!
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 19:35:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda,
with all due respect for your friend, unattended children
at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of
staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look
after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff
will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord
in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring
children in when there's no special support person for child
exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it
just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's
always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the
mother's needs first.
Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra
special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove
having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things
with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Hear Hear! I'm more than picky, and will blatantly state that in a hospital setting my first priority is the mother and baby, NOT THE TODDLER!! You want your kids in there, bring a support person, if it's unexpected then Dad has got to put their needs first and leave the midwife with the woman. It has happened to me where the woman came in labouring hard and fast at 0200, had arranged care with a neighbour, but the toddler woke up and all hell broke loose, and he wasn't going to stay with the neighbour - so in he came. The parents were more worried about him and what he was going to be like. Mum didn't want him in the room, but wanted her hubby. Took best part of 30 mins to reassure her (and Dad) that 'that's life!' and it had happened and we would work around it, but I made it clear to Dad that he was responsible for the toddler, and if he got distressed or was running about, then he had to step in. We stocked up on biscuits though!!! Precipitate labour, really quick 2nd stage (Mum was particularly worried about making noise though) and I'm not sure if dr dropped in or not - might have been too early?? She was home within 24 hours and happy. Mind you, this may even happen to me yet in a few weeks, no family even close to us, and my hubby desperately wants to be there for this baby - but I have told him the same as above, if we have to bring the kids in the middle of the night, than they are his first priority, and if he ends up sitting next door and then sticking his head through the door to see head on view and birth, then so be it. I would prefer to have just a midwife, then the whole kids and lot in there - it would distract me to no end. But that's a personal thing. Cheryl From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make the little one feel part of the party, but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive away from her parents who were driving down to help she had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
[Judy Giesaitis]Well saidRobin JudyOriginal Message-From: Robin Moon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 6:35 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear Robin
Please can we talk?Denise Hynd
041 7932570
- Original Message -
From:
Robin
Moon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:34
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children
Present at Births)
" Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help
the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with
the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or
not."
You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky (
except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although
it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to
be developing within maternity units. And propagatedby misguided
managers who think it's good for business.
I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not
just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives
are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital
midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being
swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy
consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being
swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines
everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to
help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth.
I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do
everything that I can to make thelittleone feel part of the
party,but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much.
Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I
have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and
that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child.
I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about
her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is
on the line.
Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more
manageable and satisfying.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:
[Children Present at Births)
Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing
staff did not help her with the tot.
And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living
about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down
to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour
had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2
yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was
out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a
roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff.
I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the
familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance
with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or
not.
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday,
November 26, 2002 23:47:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses,
nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND
WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is
responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with
it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect
everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was
busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or
dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything
with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly
supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be
involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I
prefer them off. Who was minding the other
kids?
Maureen.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at
Births)
Dear robin,
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Yes Sally that is one of the things I have appreciate with home birthers it is a continuation of the love act that created to baby The loving touch of partners , family is mostly what many women need to labour and birth their babies gently, I have found it so wondrous and such a positive affirmation of my midwifery to be at labours and births where I sit quietly and they look after themselves in this way!! Denise - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) The only difficulty I have with all this is that for most of a woman's birthing, if she has a husband who wants to hold, massage, support her then I am happy to sit on the floor and play with children and allow the couple to be together. After all at the end of the journey the couple is going home together and how much better is it for a woman to remember being surrounded by her husbands love rather than mine? I am after all her midwife not her lover and see my place as holding the space for the woman first, surrounded by her family and support people, surrounded by me. I do see my role encompassing the care of the whole family. Then when the baby is emerging.. and in hospitals.. the midwife need to fuss around opening packs and things.. then Dad's will, of course, happily sort out the children. Of course this is so much easier to manage at home. I know the children and the parents and have some understanding of the family dynamics. The children have their own safe space to move into when they wish it. Of course it is preferable to have a support person for the children. In peace and joy Sally Westbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 5:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hear Hear! I'm more than picky, and will blatantly state that in a hospital setting my first priority is the mother and baby, NOT THE TODDLER!! You want your kids in there, bring a support person, if it's unexpected then Dad has got to put their needs first and leave the midwife with the woman. It has happened to me where the woman came in labouring hard and fast at 0200, had arranged care with a neighbour, but the toddler woke up and all hell broke loose, and he wasn't going to stay with the neighbour - so in he came. The parents were more worried about him and what he was going to be like. Mum didn't want him in the room, but wanted her hubby. Took best part of 30 mins to reassure her (and Dad) that 'that's life!' and it had happened and we would work around it, but I made it clear to Dad that he was responsible for the toddler, and if he got distressed or was running about, then he had to step in. We stocked up on biscuits though!!! Precipitate labour, really quick 2nd stage (Mum was particularly worried about making noise though) and I'm not sure if dr dropped in or not - might have been too early?? She was home within 24 hours and happy. Mind you, this may even happen to me yet in a few weeks, no family even close to us, and my hubby desperately wants to be there for this baby - but I have told him the same as above, if we have to bring the kids in the middle of the night, than they are his first priority, and if he ends up sitting next door and then sticking his head through the door to see head on view and birth, then so be it. I would prefer to have just a midwife, then the whole kids and lot in there - it would distract me to no end. But that's a personal thing. Cheryl From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
What about the possibility of child care within the hospital? I can hear the screams of budget budget, etc. Yet it's not such a far-fetched idea. How many people need to use hospitals and have to have their children looked after? Would it be a nightmare? Aviva --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda it does sound like a really difficult/desperate situation. However, usually birth suite is not over abundant with midwives and with your friend in rapid labour doesn't sound like they could have become involved in child care too. I always thoroughly discuss the many scenarios that parents must consider happening when a child is included in the birth plan including being minded by people not at the birth itself. My own 2 older daughters were at the birth of their sister in an alternative birthing center in Chicago almost 22years ago now!! Kristin was 4and 1/2and Elyse was 3 at the time. Of course I have the photos of them on the bed beside me: a double bed with a bean bag, Kristin saying push mummy push, three pushes and she was crying lustily in my arms. Elyse was a bit stunned by it all. My father was their support person, my mother and my husband(their father)mine. They were watching Sesame Street in the family room next door when Dad was told to bring them in (they had been in and out during the couple of hours of labour), they hopped up on the bed and Dad stood back in awe and Rachael made her entrance to the world. Kristin is now studying to be a nurse midwife in the USA and Elyse is completing her RN (going back for the graduation next week) and Rachael is studying to be a vet. Kristin remembers the birth vividly (re-enacted it many, many times in preschool as did many of her classmates at the time, Chicago, I guess, was a little hot bed of alternative parenting at the time) and has used it extensively on her letters of application to midwifery schools. Wouldn't have done it any other way.Actually we would have been in big financial doo doo if there had been even a tiny complication (like a suture or 2), I didn't think about that until afterwards. Oh this birth and labor happened from 8am when my mum (a midwife) examined me at home (she had brought cord clamps, gloves etc.. in case of a blizzard and she had to be my midwife) to make sure I was in active labour (I guess I wasn't making enough noise), gave the go ahead to proceed to the birth center (lovely sunny but cold day in January, 1981 ~ 2degrees celsius), it was 9am when we got there and settled in, Rach appeared at 12.10 just after Electric company, I think. Do note the TV was NOT in my room, though it was a suite and we were all wandering around. much love marilyn- Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear robin,
I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every
effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing
rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and
support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her
labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she
was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also
feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her
uncomfortable.
Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman
who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or
complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital -
personally.
4 hours being her longest labour. No
tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who
found the light switch.
I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital
births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL
Rhonda.
If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be
laughing!
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, November
25, 2002 19:35:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda,
with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a
hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take
the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and
wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a
little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem
when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for
child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just
alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult
when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first.
Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special
dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older
children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on their
faces is simply fabulous as they take in an adult version of real
life.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002
5:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:
[Children Present at Births)
This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her
2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child.
When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back
up child care.
So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old -
trying to call for someone to help.
To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old
running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while
baby was born.
She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with
loking after him.
This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs
about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between
pushing.
He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be
unattended while Dad helped her.
Rhonda
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 14:39:46
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
We planned on having out two sons present at the
birth at home of numberthree, boys were 3 1/2years and just
under two. I showed them the video ofnumber two being born,
water birh at home, we watched it lots and also someother
videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might
makeand about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the
baby coming out.Likened it to having to concentrate when
driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't talk much then
either. I told them it might hurt me, but itwas a special hurt
just for helping babies to come out. I told them it hadto come
out between my legs, a special whole th
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Yes, that was the same approach I had with my son, Leslie, attending Rosie's birth. It was wonderful. Leslie was actually the first person on the planet to see anything of his little sister. He was the one to tell us all, the head was crowning. He was so excited, I can hear his voice now. It has given them a bond I've never seen in any other pair of siblings. They protect each other to the nth degree, whether that means by getting someone else to back off, or by one giving the other a bit of a talking to. And it all works both ways. Love and hugs, Aviva - Original Message - From: Robyn Borgas To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hi sarah,My daughter Nicole was 41/2 years old at the birth of her sister.I've found children are very accepting of birth when you treat it as a'special family' event, not something to be frightened of.I talked to her about the noises I would make, that I would be in the bath(once I'm in labour and in the water you cannot get me out !), showed her awaterbirth video and some books. I let her lead the way in showing herinterest when she wanted to watch the videos and talk about the birth.What a way for a mother to share such a precious time with her daughter,their freindship was evident right from birth and still continues 6 monthson !Go with your heart as only you know best whether your children would becomfortable being present at your next birth. Ask them.Warm regards Robyn
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
good one. another aspect I hadn't thought of but Kerry Gray, who was then president of childbirth ed. assoc. did think of...she bought a new to-shirt for Leslie and gave it to him during labour, to wear so he felt special too. He loved that to-shirt and wore it till there was nothing left of it. aviva - Original Message - From: Larry Megan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of numberthree, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video ofnumber two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also someother videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might makeand about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out.Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but itwas a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it hadto come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boysdon't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby.Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone theytrust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don'twant their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was,but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want tobe on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. Iacknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, butfigured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be workedthrough(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children willprobably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even liketo be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete.It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments ifin hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of amidwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help.Some good books are "Having a Baby" by Jenni Overend and also the writer of"Maisie Mouse" series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorrydon't know the name).Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy newall about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess.After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of thenight and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up acouple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usualtime. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boysweren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for areason.My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as ourmidwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth thistime. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife justto visit, no baby.So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them asbest you can for the birth and enjoy the time.CheersMegan.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Hail Mary full of grace, Save for me a parking space. No disrespect meant; it seems to work! aviva - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't talk much then eitherOh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers who takethe challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!!Jo Bainbridge
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
unprepared? little tacker did a damn sight better than a lot of the obs we read about on this list!! aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. Rhonda. _
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Hear hear Aviva - larissa was the first person ever to see James -she wrote a lovely story about his birth which I may just dig out and put on my website -she was ten at the time and yes in spite of him being a ferral kid, she is magic with him and they do have a very special bond. Pinky - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Yes, that was the same approach I had with my son, Leslie, attending Rosie's birth. It was wonderful. Leslie was actually the first person on the planet to see anything of his little sister. He was the one to tell us all, the head was crowning. He was so excited, I can hear his voice now. It has given them a bond I've never seen in any other pair of siblings. They protect each other to the nth degree, whether that means by getting someone else to back off, or by one giving the other a bit of a talking to. And it all works both ways. Love and hugs, Aviva - Original Message - From: Robyn Borgas To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hi sarah,My daughter Nicole was 41/2 years old at the birth of her sister.I've found children are very accepting of birth when you treat it as a'special family' event, not something to be frightened of.I talked to her about the noises I would make, that I would be in the bath(once I'm in labour and in the water you cannot get me out !), showed her awaterbirth video and some books. I let her lead the way in showing herinterest when she wanted to watch the videos and talk about the birth.What a way for a mother to share such a precious time with her daughter,their freindship was evident right from birth and still continues 6 monthson !Go with your heart as only you know best whether your children would becomfortable being present at your next birth. Ask them.Warm regards Robyn
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
I have seen many children at births. It is magical to watch. The calmness of some and the emotional intensity of others. I really love having children present. This week.. a little girl (3yrs).. standing by the side of the birth pool.. a felt mouse in her hand.. mouse in a little bit worried now.. I tell her that her mum is so clever because she knows the right noises to help the baby be born.. (I avoid trying to explain the pain.. but good pain to little ones) .. at this point her divine mother is making deep guttural moaning and then tells us that the baby is right down and nearly out .. so I say to the little girl.. mouse can get excited now because the baby is nearly out and how clever her mother is.. the little girl.. then has mouse dancing along the edge of the birth pool a moment later the baby is beginning to emerge and through the water we can see a face .. the other little girl (5yrs) asks.. why the other midwife has her hand in the water.. and I say she is going to help the baby be birthed she squints hard through the water.. in the muted light.. and then states very clearly Sally that is not the baby that is my mummys foot .. then she looks a bit harder and says.. oh.. theres the baby!! So so cute. Another memorable child.. Her mother is standing leaning over a high bed facing the doorway the babe is crowned about to emerge.. Im sitting quietly.. waiting to catch the baby.. and the 3 year old comes running in through the door way.. kisses mummy.. then crawls through her legs, sits on my lap and put her hands in mine to support her baby sister as she emerges and helps pass the baby to her mother Exceptional. Such magical moments that I am privileged enough to be a part of. In peace and joy Sally Westbury
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Plans around birth incl children need to remain open to change ie leaving kids asleep following the childs needs at that moment but the magic of, christmas is often captured when chilren are present . This year a 10 year girl defused a tense situation with grumpy obs in a pulic hosp ,as her mum pushed, an undigested pumpkin seed appeared from her bottom which the child annouced with great gusto to one and all . Two boys at their sisters birth at home asked their mum as the head crowned aout 7am would she be finished by breakfast . AN EXCITED 2 YR OLD WOKE AT USUAL TIME O6OO TO GREET HIS SISTER SWIMMING PAST HIS MUM TO SEE HIM . Billie changed her clothes 3 times then decided at 3yrs of age to go play next door as, it was taking too long.another 3 yr old had her clothes off and was at last allowed in the pool with her parents and new sister . Another 10 year old girl hopped into her bed with the door shut upset by thenoised of a precipitate labour her support person jioned her and they emerged whenit was over and made a cake. Flurescent ear plugs, little hands helping the midwife, thomas the tank torches searching for a sign of baby ,batman, knights with swords and fairies all dressed to greet the new babe I could go on and on wide eyed interested kids doing what they liked with their own person there for them. Chidren at birth go with the moment and have good child centred back up plans jan - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either Oh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers who take the challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!! Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of number three, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video of number two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also some other videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might make and about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out. Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but it was a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it had to come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boys don't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby. Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone they trust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don't want their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was, but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want to be on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. I acknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, but figured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be worked through(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children will probably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even like to be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete. It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments if in hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of a midwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help. Some good books are Having a Baby by Jenni Overend and also the writer of Maisie Mouse series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorry don't know the name). Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy new all about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess. After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of the night and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up a couple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usual time. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boys weren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for a reason. My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as our midwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth this time. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife just to visit, no baby. So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them as best you can
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Oh Sally, what divine moments!! My own then 2 1/2 year old came running into the bathroom when I hollered "GET SAM NOW!!!" and as my partner lead him around the pool to see his brother being born, I apparently said "someone hold me" and he wrenched free from Tom, ran around to me and grabbed my shoulder saying "gotcha Mummy, gotcha". Still gives me goosebumps thinking about it, how intuitive that he knew just what I needed in the midst of all the noise and action! We can learn so much from those without 'formal midwifery training', Tania
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear All, My daughter was only 2 years old when she witnessed her first homebirth. She sat quietly in the corner of the bathroom sucking on a bottle of apple juice while my friend laboured. Afterwards when questioned as to where baby Abigail came from she would reply: out of the bathroom!. A few months later (she must have been thinking about it in the interim) when questioned she answered: out of Auntie 'Chelle's bottom. Today those 2 girls attend the same school together and are great friends. If children sense that everyone is calm and not fearful they also will cope well. Leanne. From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:56:30 +1030 Yes, that was the same approach I had with my son, Leslie, attending Rosie's birth. It was wonderful. Leslie was actually the first person on the planet to see anything of his little sister. He was the one to tell us all, the head was crowning. He was so excited, I can hear his voice now. It has given them a bond I've never seen in any other pair of siblings. They protect each other to the nth degree, whether that means by getting someone else to back off, or by one giving the other a bit of a talking to. And it all works both ways. Love and hugs, Aviva - Original Message - From: Robyn Borgas To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hi sarah, My daughter Nicole was 41/2 years old at the birth of her sister. I've found children are very accepting of birth when you treat it as a 'special family' event, not something to be frightened of. I talked to her about the noises I would make, that I would be in the bath (once I'm in labour and in the water you cannot get me out !), showed her a waterbirth video and some books. I let her lead the way in showing her interest when she wanted to watch the videos and talk about the birth. What a way for a mother to share such a precious time with her daughter, their freindship was evident right from birth and still continues 6 months on ! Go with your heart as only you know best whether your children would be comfortable being present at your next birth. Ask them. Warm regards Robyn _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
I really like his idea of paying the midwife to keep visiting! Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Comes from trying to find a free carpark on Flinders Drive at FMC at peak hour for the kids swimming lessons in the hydro-pool there. Normally not to ananl about the perfect park. Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jo Dean Bainbridge Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 1:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either Oh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers who take the challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!! Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of number three, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video of number two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also some other videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might make and about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out. Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but it was a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it had to come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boys don't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby. Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone they trust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don't want their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was, but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want to be on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. I acknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, but figured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be worked through(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children will probably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even like to be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete. It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments if in hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of a midwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help. Some good books are Having a Baby by Jenni Overend and also the writer of Maisie Mouse series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorry don't know the name). Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy new all about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess. After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of the night and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up a couple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usual time. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boys weren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for a reason. My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as our midwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth this time. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife just to visit, no baby. So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them as best you can for the birth and enjoy the time. Cheers Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of number three, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video of number two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also some other videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might make and about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out. Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but it was a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it had to come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boys don't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby. Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone they trust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don't want their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was, but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want to be on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. I acknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, but figured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be worked through(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children will probably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even like to be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete. It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments if in hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of a midwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help. Some good books are Having a Baby by Jenni Overend and also the writer of Maisie Mouse series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorry don't know the name). Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy new all about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess. After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of the night and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up a couple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usual time. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boys weren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for a reason. My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as our midwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth this time. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife just to visit, no baby. So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them as best you can for the birth and enjoy the time. Cheers Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Thomas 5 was at the birth of his little sister Sept just gone. We prepared by talking about birth and looking at a video and some pictures. He had no problems about the ladies making "noise" but wasn't too keen on the plancenta. He gave us a funny moment when I found a clip on the internet of the final minute (or so) of a woman giving birth - he thought it was great and kept saying"play it again, play it again". The poor woman gave birth about 20 times. That weekend Grandma came to visit and Thomas announced "I know how babies come out", we allwaited with bated breath forbirth according to a 5yo andthen he told her "you just press the mouse button"!!! As for the actual birth we woke him up to come with us as he had given us specific instructions he was not to be left alone. I was in transition in the car and askedhim(or anyone else) not to speak to me while I was making my "moans".He had no problem with this andafter each contraction would ask "can I talk again now Mummy" and then just continue with his nattering. At the hospital he mostly sat in the delivery room playing on a mat with his trucks while I laboured in the shower and later the bath. He would stick his head in every fewminutes just to see how things were going and then went back to playing trucks. We asked him if he wanted to come in to see the baby born to which he replied "no its ok I am playing at the moment I will see hersoon". After she was born he was absolutely fascinated by her and even wanted to see the placenta which he told uslooked like "meat". He was so matter a fact about the whole thing which surprised us - I think he was the calmest one there :-) DebbyM From: "Robyn Borgas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:56:56 +1100 Hi sarah, My daughter Nicole was 41/2 years old at the birth of her sister. I've found children are very accepting of birth when you treat it as a 'special family' event, not something to be frightened of. I talked to her about the noises I would make, that I would be in the bath (once I'm in labour and in the water you cannot get me out !), showed her a waterbirth video and some books. I let her lead the way in showing her interest when she wanted to watch the videos and talk about the birth. What a way for a mother to share such a precious time with her daughter, their freindship was evident right from birth and still continues 6 months on ! Go with your heart as only you know best whether your children would be comfortable being present at your next birth. Ask them. Warm regards Robyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either Oh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers who take the challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!! Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of number three, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video of number two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also some other videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might make and about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out. Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but it was a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it had to come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boys don't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby. Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone they trust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don't want their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was, but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want to be on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. I acknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, but figured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be worked through(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children will probably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even like to be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete. It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments if in hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of a midwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help. Some good books are Having a Baby by Jenni Overend and also the writer of Maisie Mouse series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorry don't know the name). Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy new all about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess. After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of the night and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up a couple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usual time. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boys weren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for a reason. My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as our midwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth this time. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife just to visit, no baby. So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them as best you can for the birth and enjoy the time. Cheers Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 14:39:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of numberthree, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video ofnumber two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also someother videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might makeand about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out.Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but itwas a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it hadto come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boysdon't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby.Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone theytrust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don'twant their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was,but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want tobe on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. Iacknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, butfigured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be workedthrough(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children willprobably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even liketo be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete.It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments ifin hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of amidwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help.Some good books are "Having a Baby" by Jenni Overend and also the writer of"Maisie Mouse" series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorrydon't know the name).Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy newall about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess.After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of thenight and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up acouple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usualtime. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boysweren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for areason.My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby so as ourmidwife can visit us again and so as he can be awake to see the birth thistime. I love this, but dad's not to keen. He offered to pay the midwife justto visit, no baby.So I don't think it matters how old other children are, just prepare them asbest you can for the birth and enjoy the time.CheersMegan.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.. IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda,
with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital
birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude
that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort.
A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in
the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when
there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're
not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother,
and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's
needs first.
Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension
to the labour, and I particularlylove having older children with whom you
can talk and discuss things with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as
they take in an adult version of real life.
Robin
- Original Message -
From:
Rhonda
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:46
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children
Present at Births)
This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old
son to be at the birth of her second child.
When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up
child care.
So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to
call for someone to help.
To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running
about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was
born.
She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking
after him.
This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about
yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing.
He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be
unattended while Dad helped her.
Rhonda
---Original
Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday,
November 25, 2002 14:39:46
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
We planned on having out two sons present at the birth
at home of numberthree, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I
showed them the video ofnumber two being born, water birh at home,
we watched it lots and also someother videos our midwife lent us. I
told them about the noise I might makeand about how not to talk when
I was concentrating on the baby coming out.Likened it to having to
concentrate when driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't
talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but itwas a
special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it
hadto come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies
have, boysdon't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping
me and the baby.Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the
children, someone theytrust and they need to support your
philosophies of childbirth, you don'twant their fear coming into
your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was,but he agreed to take
it as it came. I also told them that I might want tobe on my own and
they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. Iacknowledged that
this could upset them and hence affect my labour, butfigured I would
allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be workedthrough(not
scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children
willprobably want other things to do. You have to accept that may
not even liketo be there at the time, nothing is set in
concrete.It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending
appointments ifin hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids
just love the tools of amidwife, fundal measurements might be a bit
out though if they help.Some good books are "Having a Baby" by Jenni
Overend and also the writer of"Maisie Mouse" series has one about
introducing a new sibling etc, (sorrydon't know the name).Lots
of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy
newall about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and
mess.After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the
middle of thenight and the boys slept right through it all. We woke
the eldest up acouple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little
one didn't wake til usualtime. It was a fast and demanding labour so
it was appropriate that the boysweren't there, I believe I wouldn't
have coped as well, things happen for areason
