Spotmatic Battery

2001-07-28 Thread SJMarriott



Can anyone tell me the battery code for spotmatic 
batteries, a mate just bought one and its got an E400N battery, but I cant find 
it in any equivalency charts.

Thanks, Jason


Re: 17mm fish-eye advice

2001-07-28 Thread Bojidar Dimitrov

Bojidar Dimitrov wrote:
 
 Hi Caril,

Sorry, my spell-checker played a bad joke here...

Boz


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Re: Multi-segment metering and exposure compensation

2001-07-28 Thread Bojidar Dimitrov

Hernan Mouro wrote:
 
 I just read this at Boris's site
 (http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/extras/K-mount/Kaf.html):

Well, my name is Bojidar, but IÄll answer anyway...  :-)

 Speaking about multi-segment metering: (...) since algorithm is
 rather complex, it is very difficult to judge when it will fail
 and in which direction. Hence, it is not advisable to use
 exposure compensation together with multi-segment metering.
 
 So, would you use exposure compensation only in spot meter mode?
 What do you think? How much do you trust multi-segment metering?

Well, OK, now that I read this, I agree that it sounds misleading.  What
I wanted to say was that I would not _COMPENSATE_ matrix metering
because I don't know in which direction to compensate.  What I will do
is _BRACKET_ matrix metering.  Then I am quite certain to get a properly
exposed slide.

On a similar note, I have learned to trust matrix metering, and when I
do bracket, in 95% of the cases I end up with the first frame properly
exposed and the one over- and one under-exposed.

I will rewrite the passage above to reflect this.  Thanks for pointing
it out.

Cheers,
Boz

-- 
 _\\|//_ Imagination is more important than knowledge...
   0(` O-O ')0   A. Einstein
===ooO=(_)=Ooo===
 Bojidar D. Dimitrov  author and editor, Pentax K-Mount web page
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.BDimitrov.de/kmp/
=
   __   __

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Re: Digital questions: was: Re: Is the New LX Going to Be a Digital Camera

2001-07-28 Thread David A. Mann

William Robb writes:

 What I would like to know is what sort of
 dynamic range in stops (a concept I do
 understand) does a CCD chip have? Is it variable
 based on software or is it hardware limited?

 I have no idea.  I do wonder if the in-camera exposure compensation is done 
in the digital domain or if it sets the gain of an analogue amplifier prior to 
sampling.  The second way will result in more useable data provided you've got 
enough linearity and dynamic range, and a low enough noise floor in the 
analogue stage.  I am of course assuming that the CCD elements are 
essentially an analogue device with a DAC somewhere either on the CCD chip 
itself or separately in the camera.

 Another thing is that the camera firmware can always interpolate.  You can 
easily sample at (say) 8 bits per channel, then when you're interpolating the 
extra pixels to fill the gaps left by the CCD, you can add a few bits.  This would 
be very similar to the oversampling process used in expensive CD players that 
use 20-bit DACs.

 Is it closer to a short range slide film such as
 Velvia? Or closer to a long range print film
 such as Portra NC?
 Or is the question to general to give a specific
 answer to?

 It'll depend on the CCD itself.  Someone would have to try it out to be sure 
(unless you want to read some semiconductor datasheets).

Cheers,


- Dave

David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec)
http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/

Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up,
 while children are allowed to run free on the streets? -- Garfield
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Still FS: SMCP 1000mm f/8 with wooden tripod

2001-07-28 Thread David A. Mann

 Yep, this lens is still taking up floor space at my favourite camera shop.  And I 
don't 
want to buy it (!).

 Anyone who's interested, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Feel free to mention my name (not compulsory but they'll know I've done them a favour 
in return for all those they've done for me).

 The lens comes with a very nice Asahi wooden tripod, and an aluminium trunk case.  I 
think there's also a carry case/bag for the tripod as well.  Its quoted as condition 
8/10, 
which they define as:

Excellent+
90-99% original finish. Very little use. Optics perfect. Mechanics perfect.

 Price is NZ$4450, which is approximately US$1800 plus shipping.  They'll take credit 
card.

Cheers,


- Dave

David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec)
http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/

Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up,
 while children are allowed to run free on the streets? -- Garfield
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Re: MZS remote

2001-07-28 Thread Pentax Clover



Maybe this is the same remote than the MZ-7/ XZ-7, 
you can order it more easily (IR remote I am talking about)



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mike 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: samedi 28 juillet 2001 03:59
  Subject: MZS remote
  
  Does anyone know where I can order 
  
  the remote shutter release for the 
  MZ-S?
  I did notice that the remote for the 
  Pentax
  90WR "point and shoot" works on the 
  MZ-S,
  but my wife uses that camera and said 
  I
  couldn't have the remote. After buying 
  the
  MZ-S I'm not in a position to be asking 
  any
  favors from her for a few 
  monthsanyway.
  
  P.S. The MZ-S is one fine camera and 
  worth
  a few months of "cold beans and hot 
  tongue"
  from my wife.
  
  Thanks,
  -=Mike=-In the Pacific 
  Northwet


Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

If your budget allows it, get a Leica M6 with a Summilux or a Noctilux
... pretty much fits all your requirements perfectly.  There's no
faster lens than the 50mm/f1.0 Noctilux, and the camera can be easily
hand held at very slow shutter speeds.  If you need slightly better
image quality, the Summilux (F1.4) would work.  The M6 also has
something of a spot meter, albeit a big spot.  Loading is pretty easy
once you get the hang of it - many Leica shooters can load 'em in the
dark.  The shutter is virtually silent.
-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?

Nicholas Wright wrote:
 
 I have somthing of a dilema. I need to get a quieter camera for some work
 that I'll be doing in the near future, and also for when I want to carry
 something other than the pz1p. The requirements that I have is that this
 camera be small and discreet, extremely quiet, easily loadable, and the
 viewfinder data must be able to be read in near dark. The last reason being
 the main reason my k1000 is not suited for what I'm looking for. So I've
 narrowed it down to three cameras and I'd appreciate any feedback from
 others that have more experience with these cameras. I would be using manual
 focus lenses on it, taking photos in near dark (ie- fire/candlelight). The
 three cameras that I'm looking at are;
 
 1) ME Super... very small, very quiet. Don't like the buttons to change
 shutter speed, but I could get over it.
 2) MX... prolly the closest thing I'll ever get to what I'm looking for, but
 haven't I seen somewhere that it's actually kindof loud?
 3) zx5n... very quiet, and small. But how loud is the autorewind? and am I
 correct in saying that there is no way to override autorewind when you reach
 the end of the roll of film? Actually, the number one reason that I'm even
 considering this camera is because of the built in spot meter.
 
 Well, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 
 --
 Nick
 
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Re: Digital Software Help

2001-07-28 Thread Juan J. Buhler

Lawrence Kwan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Juan J. Buhler wrote:
  If someone knows of some more user friendly free programs for
  panoramas out there, I'd like to know.
 
 There used to be a free front end, PTGUI, for Panotools.  Though not all
 the features of Panotools can be accessed, it does make life simpler.
 However, the new version 1.0 is now shareware: http://www.ptgui.com/

That is excellent, thanks very much for the link!

j


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RE: FA 24-90 Query

2001-07-28 Thread Andreas

On 26 Jul 2001, at 15:34, Frits J. Wüthrich wrote:
 
 Another questions was about barrel wobble: yes, there is play in the
 lens barrel, it is noticeable at 24mm and is worse at 90mm. How bad
 that is in general is something I don't know.

Mine has also some wobble. But except from the LTD lenses I
haven´t seen any AF lens without that. Well I haven´t got any FA*
lenses.

 While I was on vacation in Ireland (beautiful country, very friendly
 people) I noticed something with my lens: when zooming from 24 to 90
 mm, around 40mm there is a point where there is something snapping
 (don't know how to describe that correct due to my limited ability to
 express myself in the English language), you can feel it and even hear
 it. Going from 90 to 24 mm there is nothing. I am sure it wasn't there
 when I first got it. Are there others with the same experience? Any
 suggestions what it could be?

No I haven´t notice anything like that. Could be some dust inside.

Even though it feels a bit plastic, in real world use I find the 
mechanical quality quite good. Ok lets see what I say in a few
years :-)
Optical it is really super (for a zoom) I haven´t made real test shots
but the slides I have back until now are really super. Sharp,
contrasty and really low distortion at the 24mm end.

Andreas
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Re: PS to Peter in Sunny Brighton - for God's sake man

2001-07-28 Thread Camdir

In a message dated 27/07/01 00:29:26 GMT Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 PS to Peter in Sunny Brighton - for God's sake man, you're a digest user 
 like me. Cut and paste the subject line into the subject area on your 
 email app - a lot of people don't even look at anything in their 'in box' 
 that says 'Re: pentax-discuss-digest V1 #1026'. You can't simply hit 
 'reply' to a digest email. ;-P 

Thx
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Re: OT cars (was Re: Which Pentax is Pentax...)

2001-07-28 Thread Atvars_Karro

I bought Tamron 28-200 LD II Super (or smth like that). It works really
fine, but I noticed quite significant vingetting at 28mm wide open. I've
not tried it without lens hood yet, maybe the problem is there. One thing I
don't like the most is very short move of the focus ring, when shooting in
MF mode.

Atvars, starts looking to primes... Unfortunately I looked at those
portraits
(http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~azuma/html/camera/lenses_test/001123/wakana.html),

I'm lost - I want FA* 85mm 1.4 :)
_

Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The one I tried was soft at 28 and soft at 200, okay in the middle.  My
 SMC-M 28mm f2.8 outperformed it wide open, and I consider that lens
 pretty much useless wide open.

 The Tamron/Pentax may be better than other 28-200s by a significant
 margin, but the one I tried was a pretty mediocre performer.  Of course,
 I'm spoiled by primes and I like to make big prints.


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Re: Re: new and different LX top plate

2001-07-28 Thread Camdir

My guess is that the seller confused the pic ids when compiling the auction. 
Only one pic is of the Cosina CT1. You still should maul (sorry mail) the 
seller to check.

Kind regards

Peter
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Re: unsubscribe Pentax discuss

2001-07-28 Thread dave o'brien

A scroll of mail from petit miam [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 25
Jul 2001 16:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
Read it? y
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 unsubscribe pentax-discuss. Damien Demolder
  If you have received this e-mail in error,
 please destroy and delete 
  the message from your computer. 

OK, will do :)

The first time I read this, I thought it said please destroy and
delete your computer.

Man, that's one tough NDA.

dave
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Re: new and different LX top plate

2001-07-28 Thread Mike Johnston

Jody,
Some jerks pilfer each others' auctions for descriptions, pictures,
everything. I've notified Stephen Gandy several times when people have
lifted descriptions of cameras directly from his CameraQuest web page for
their auctions. Recently I notified Gary Schloss that a seller had stolen
Gary's picture of a lens to use with his auctioncomplete with Gary's
very prominent copyright notice, right there in the picture field.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The seller is still responsible for the
description, even if it's not original.

--Mike



Jody wrote:

 Curiouser and curiouser. Where do you think the
 desciption comes from? It has a peculiar resemblance
 to this one:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItemitem=1255311
 711
 
 Different sellers, different locations, and different
 LX - I hope. What is going on?
 
 Jody.
 
 - --- Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Check out the top deck of this LX on auction
 
 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1259107015

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Re: LXII?

2001-07-28 Thread Alexander Krohe

Pål wrote: --
A couple of years ago Trevor Wiebe posted that the
Pentax flagship was going to be the LXII. It doesn't
seem far fetched anymore in light of the recent
interview with the boss of the camera division.
Anyway, Trevor posted a set of specifications and
claimed he had a industry inside friend who supplied
the information. Anyone who has his post from back
then and care to repost it?
Pål
-
Sorry I cannot find it at the moment, but my strong
impression is that he mixed it up with the then to be
released Contax N1 ... 
Alexander

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Re: Single malts

2001-07-28 Thread dave o'brien

A scroll of mail from Collin Brendemuehl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:23:13 -0500
Read it? y
Pity the CNMO people!
Let them drink Bud!

Now steady on.  There's no need for cruel and unusual punishment.

dave
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PUG comment reminder

2001-07-28 Thread Chris Brogden


Ok, here's the reminder.  We're keeping it nice and simple.  If you want
your PUG photo commented on, feel free to send me a letter *off-list* at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] saying My name is
__ and I want to have my photo commented on for the August
PUG (or something like that), and it'll be done.  If you send the letter
to Bill Robb or the PUG team, they'll ignore it, since the PUG gallery is
a separate entity.  You could send a letter to the PDML asking for
comments if you want, though of course it's hit and miss whether you'll
get any.

The commenting process is now initiated by the photographer, so if you
don't want your photo commented on, you don't have to do anything: the
default is no comments.  You'll have to mail me a request for comments
each month that you want them, as there could be some months when you
don't want comments, for whatever reason.

The commentators on my list are: Bruce Dayton, Frank Theriault, Paul
Stenquist, Skip, Luis Pinar, Tom Cakalic, Lasse Karlsson, Jaume Lahuerta,
Gerald Cermak, Bill Johnson, Maris V. Lidaka, Sr., John Cohen, Yves
Caudano, Sid Barras, Paul Harvey, Donna Lynn Crain, Gianfranco Irlanda,
Rapture, César Matamoros II, and Adelheid, and Cory Waters.  If anyone on
that list no longer wishes to be a commentator, just let me know off-list.

Of course, if anyone has any questions about how this is going to work, or
what this whole commenting thing is about, feel free to email me off-list
and I'll fill you in.

Thanks for reading!
chris


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Re: new and different LX top plate

2001-07-28 Thread Bob Blakely

Yes, but...

1.The strap attachments are different from the other photos.
2.The LX ASA/Compensation Adjustment missing in this photo can be seen
in the other photos.
3.The rewind lever is different from the other photo.
4.The exposure compensation dial lock not present in the in the picture
in question is seen in the photo box above it.

It's a simple photo screw up.

Regards,
Bob...
--
Those who say that life is worth living at any cost
have already written an epitaph of infamy,
for there is no cause and no person
that they will not betray to stay alive.
Sidney Hook

From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 That's strange.
 The SS dial isn't right.  Looks like an MX.
 The shoe is non-dedicated.  Don't think there was one.
 But the front of the body is right.

 Looks like an LX modified/repaired with MX parts.

 Collin

 From: William Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: new and different LX top plate
 
 Um,
 
 That top deck is VERY suspicious looking.  As a matter of fact, I'll
 go out on a limb, and say IT ISN'T AN LX!  There is no release button
 for releasing the exposure lock/viewfinder, there aren't enough markings
 on the shutter speed, the ASA indicator is in the shutter speed dial
 (isn't like that on the LX), and there is no provision for locking off
 the shutter button, AND the lugs aren't right, not to mention, the LX
 says LX right on the top, and this one doesn't.  Proof enough to be wary
 of this seller, at least without asking questions.


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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Nicholas Wright

Thanks for all the replies. I should've added that vf brightness was indeed
a major factor in this purchase.

Lecia M6 huh? I've heard lots a great things about them... *flips through
KEH's catalog* omg! $6,000 just for the body! I never knew they were ~that~
expensive. hehe, yeah that's a wee bit out a my price range now... :)

--
Blessings,
Nick

--
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Camera decsion...
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2001, 3:19 AM


 If your budget allows it, get a Leica M6 with a Summilux or a Noctilux
 ... pretty much fits all your requirements perfectly.  There's no
 faster lens than the 50mm/f1.0 Noctilux, and the camera can be easily
 hand held at very slow shutter speeds.  If you need slightly better
 image quality, the Summilux (F1.4) would work.  The M6 also has
 something of a spot meter, albeit a big spot.  Loading is pretty easy
 once you get the hang of it - many Leica shooters can load 'em in the
 dark.  The shutter is virtually silent.
 --
 Shel Belinkoff
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
 when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?

 Nicholas Wright wrote:

 I have somthing of a dilema. I need to get a quieter camera for some work
 that I'll be doing in the near future, and also for when I want to carry
 something other than the pz1p. The requirements that I have is that this
 camera be small and discreet, extremely quiet, easily loadable, and the
 viewfinder data must be able to be read in near dark. The last reason being
 the main reason my k1000 is not suited for what I'm looking for. So I've
 narrowed it down to three cameras and I'd appreciate any feedback from
 others that have more experience with these cameras. I would be using manual
 focus lenses on it, taking photos in near dark (ie- fire/candlelight). The
 three cameras that I'm looking at are;

 1) ME Super... very small, very quiet. Don't like the buttons to change
 shutter speed, but I could get over it.
 2) MX... prolly the closest thing I'll ever get to what I'm looking for, but
 haven't I seen somewhere that it's actually kindof loud?
 3) zx5n... very quiet, and small. But how loud is the autorewind? and am I
 correct in saying that there is no way to override autorewind when you reach
 the end of the roll of film? Actually, the number one reason that I'm even
 considering this camera is because of the built in spot meter.

 Well, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 --
 Nick

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Re: Completely OT: gripe of the day

2001-07-28 Thread Nicholas Wright

Yes, it is... but I've never seen it actually change the color of a dress
before.

Nick

--
From: Keith Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pentax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Completely OT:  gripe of the day
Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001, 10:14 PM


Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:10:54 -0500
 From: Nicholas Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Completely OT:  gripe of the day

 Once we bought my wife a beautiful green dress at a store only to get home
 and find that the dress was not, in fact, green; it was brown. We played
 with it under different lights and found the exact same thing, the dress
 changed to green when we went to a place with flourescents. weird...

 - --
 DOH!
 Nick   

 That's because non-filtered flourescent light is green!  I have to wear
 rose-tinted glasses because flourescent light gives me migranes.

 Keith Zimmerman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://homepage.dave-world.net/~vkzimm/gallery5.html

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Re: FA*80-200 mm f/2.8 ED

2001-07-28 Thread Mark Roberts

I really like photo #3.

(I like the 100/2.8 macro as well)

Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seriously, once you start shooting with it, you'll be surprised 
just how good it is. John Francis has reported some light fall off 
at 2.8, and I think he's right, but it's quite slight. You'd be hard 
pressed to find any other fault with it. Just don't expect to do 
much hand-held Velvia work with it.

I've been tempted to report it to Albano as my favorite lens, but I'm 
too fond of my FA35/2AL to decide between the two. But you can get 
some idea of how much I use it by looking at my latest site update; 
numbers 2, 3, and 5 were all taken with the 80-200/2.8.

Doug
i like the FA100/2.8 Macro too


At 3:27 PM -04007/27/01, Mark Roberts  wrote, or at least typed:
Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Oh, geeze, I didn't tell you that I got rid of mine? Yup, traded it 
for a Tamron 28-200. Figure I'll never have to change lenses again.

Doug
just kidding

You don't say...

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Re: Photo Sites Database--Guidelines

2001-07-28 Thread William Kane

Gary has a great idea with the GPS data.  I'm working with my students
to learn how to use GPS data to mark points and trails on maps that they
can print out and use.  We're also learning how to use data that exsists
on the internet (such as census data, road maps, topographical maps,
etc) to map something out to prove a point, or describe conditions we
want described.  With GPS coordinates, and the knowledge of how to use a
GIS system you can map just about ANYTHING including good photo spots.

Illinois Bill

 
 
 Options within brackets are optional. I'll probably end up
 standarizing the themes, once we have a few entries we'll have a good
 idea of what they will be.
 
 I'm sorry that it took so long to write this but Monday I returned from
 vacation to find out that I was just laid off the job I've had for the last
 25 years. Finding a new job has been my priority.
 
 I wanted to suggest that you add a field for GPS coordinates. Even though I
 don't have one, these devices are becoming more common these days.
 
 Gary J. Sibio
 
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread tom

Nicholas Wright wrote:
 
 Lecia M6 huh? I've heard lots a great things about them... *flips through
 KEH's catalog* omg! $6,000 just for the body! I never knew they were ~that~
 expensive. hehe, yeah that's a wee bit out a my price range now... :)

You must be looking at one of the collector's special editions...a new
M6 should be about $1700 with rebate, maybe $1500 if you can go to a
Leica days event.

See what keh has. An M4 or Konica RF wouldn't be out of the question
either.

tv
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

Nicholas Wright wrote:

 Lecia M6 huh? I've heard lots a great things about them... *flips through
 KEH's catalog* omg! $6,000 just for the body! I never knew they were ~that~
 expensive. hehe, yeah that's a wee bit out a my price range now... :)

That's too much.  New ones cost far, far less than that.  You may have
been looking at a commemorative or collector's model.

Their viewfinders are amazingly good for low light work.  Shooting
with a Noctilux is sometimes referred to as shooting in available
dark.  You owe it to yourself to at least check one out.  They take a
little getting used to, but, as i said, if you can afford one, it's
far, far superior to an SLR for your described purpose.

I'm a big fan of the LX, but when it comes to shooting in low light,
close in, or when quiet or stealth is required, out comes the leica. 
The two make a great combination.

-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Photo Sites Database--Guidelines

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

William Kane wrote:
 
 Gary has a great idea with the GPS data.  

Hi Bill ...

Check this out for an example of using GPS coordinates for locating
photo sites.  It's a great article:

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/010518.htm
-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

tom wrote:
 
 a new M6 should be about $1700 with rebate
 maybe $1500 if you can go to a Leica days event.

And substantially less for a used one.
 
 An M4 or Konica RF wouldn't be out of the 
 question either.

Konica is a good choice.  However, for low light work with fast lenses
like the Noctilux or the Summilux, I'd suggest an M3 with the .92
viewfinder, or the M6 with the .85 finder.  Better focusing accuracy,
although neither the M3 nor the M4 has a built in meter.

-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Nicholas Wright

Hmm... both of you are right... M6 platinum 100yr Schmidt Group w50/2.8 
Elmar... I will have to take a better look at these cameras... though I was
hoping to stay with the system lenses that I have... Thanks again.

Nick

--
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Camera decsion...
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2001, 10:08 AM


 Nicholas Wright wrote:

 Lecia M6 huh? I've heard lots a great things about them... *flips through
 KEH's catalog* omg! $6,000 just for the body! I never knew they were ~that~
 expensive. hehe, yeah that's a wee bit out a my price range now... :)

 That's too much.  New ones cost far, far less than that.  You may have
 been looking at a commemorative or collector's model.

 Their viewfinders are amazingly good for low light work.  Shooting
 with a Noctilux is sometimes referred to as shooting in available
 dark.  You owe it to yourself to at least check one out.  They take a
 little getting used to, but, as i said, if you can afford one, it's
 far, far superior to an SLR for your described purpose.

 I'm a big fan of the LX, but when it comes to shooting in low light,
 close in, or when quiet or stealth is required, out comes the leica.
 The two make a great combination.

 --
 Shel Belinkoff
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
 when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Todd Stanley


You could always get a camera with MLU, that's about as quite as you are
going to get.  The LX would fit the bill nicely, with it's LED display, and
metering system that works with the mirror locked up.  Both the KX and K2
don't have illuminated displays, but the needles aren't that hard to read
in dim light.  If you don't like the push buttons on the ME Super take a
look at the P3/P30/P30t/P3n, with it's tradional shutter speed dial and LED
readout in the finder.  

Todd

At 11:41 PM 7/27/01 -0500, you wrote:
I have somthing of a dilema. I need to get a quieter camera for some work 
that I'll be doing in the near future, and also for when I want to carry
something other than the pz1p. The requirements that I have is that this
camera be small and discreet, extremely quiet, easily loadable, and the
viewfinder data must be able to be read in near dark. The last reason being
the main reason my k1000 is not suited for what I'm looking for. So I've
narrowed it down to three cameras and I'd appreciate any feedback from
others that have more experience with these cameras. I would be using manual
focus lenses on it, taking photos in near dark (ie- fire/candlelight). The
three cameras that I'm looking at are;

1) ME Super... very small, very quiet. Don't like the buttons to change
shutter speed, but I could get over it.
2) MX... prolly the closest thing I'll ever get to what I'm looking for, but
haven't I seen somewhere that it's actually kindof loud?
3) zx5n... very quiet, and small. But how loud is the autorewind? and am I
correct in saying that there is no way to override autorewind when you reach
the end of the roll of film? Actually, the number one reason that I'm even
considering this camera is because of the built in spot meter.

Well, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

--
Nick
 
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

Nicholas Wright wrote:

 hoping to stay with the system lenses that I have

There are adapters that will allow you to use some Pentax lenses on
the Leica.

http://cameraquest.com/adaptnew.htm

-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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August PUG

2001-07-28 Thread William Robb

I have just sent out the confirmations for the
August Gallery. If you think you should have
recieved one, and didn't, please drop me a note
at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
William Robb

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Re: Multi-segment metering and exposure compensation

2001-07-28 Thread tom

Nicholas Wright wrote:
 
 
  The thing
  that I always wonder is If manual camera users can through experimentation
  learn what their cameras are doing (meter wise) why cannot auto camera users
  do the same thing? Well we can and we do...
 
  Except in this case the experimentation would have to be much more
  thorough.
 
 I'm not sure that this is entirely correct. True, the multi-segment metering
 will adjust exposure according to the way the computer percieves the scene,
 but if you know your camera you will also know how the computer will
 percieve that scene so you can make the adjustments that you see fit.

I just question how easy it is to figure out what the camera is
thinking. As I understand it, the camera makers basically program
possible scenes into the chip, and, supposedly, there are thousands of
them.

Also, these are going to vary by camera.

Taking the example of the bear. If you take the white one, and shift it
off center, will the camera think it's the sky in a vertical shot? What
if it's just taking up 2 segments? 4? 2 segments plus 1/2 of 2 more?
Sure, you could test that, but it seems to me you'd have to test for a
lot a EI's in the various metering segments.

 
  I think his test is simplistic. I don't often shoot a single colored
  subject against a simple evenly-lit background.
 
 His test is not simply a single colored subject with an evenly lit
 background. His test involves two stuffed bears (one white, one dark)
 against several different background lighting conditions. 

But each situation in itself is fairly simple...all lit by one light
source, with varying degrees of shade.

 
 Again, I am ~not~ saying that MM is the perfect solution. 

I didn't mean to imply you were.

 In fact, I will be
 the first to admit that my best photos (no exceptions) were taken using the
 zone system with spot meter. And when the time presents itself, or when
 lighting conditions dictate (as in the above mentioned light source in
 photos) I will always switch to spot. But for journalistic stuff where one
 or so stop exposure error means less than the content of the photo it's
 matrix all the way.

I agree, mostly. I'm in matrix mode often...I just don't always know
what the camera is thinking, and I still don't after printing at least
500 negs made in matrix mode. 

Lately, if I think the lighting isn't going to change much, I'll take a
couple of spot readings and just work with those manually.

tv
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Re: Photo Sites Database--Guidelines

2001-07-28 Thread William Kane

Shel,

  Thanks for the heads up.  That's a great artical.  I'm linking it to
my class webpage!

Bill

Shel Belinkoff wrote:
 
 William Kane wrote:
 
  Gary has a great idea with the GPS data.
 
 Hi Bill ...
 
 Check this out for an example of using GPS coordinates for locating
 photo sites.  It's a great article:
 
 http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/010518.htm
 --
 Shel Belinkoff
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
 when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Digital Software Help

2001-07-28 Thread herbet brasileiro

Try http://www.panavue.com/
It's not free, but it's one of the best as I heard and
you can download a fully functional demo. 
Herbet.

--- Juan J. Buhler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Bill Kane wrote:
 
 I need to know if anyone out there knows the
 name of a good piece of
  software that stiches pictures together.  I think
 some of them refer to it
  as making a panoramic picture . .  . .
 
 Just last night I was playing with some freeware
 panorama tools. Check
 out Panotools at
 
   http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch/
 
 
 It's a bit obscure to get going, but it works well,
 and it's free. One
 cool thing are the Photoshop plugins that can do
 things like remap a
 fisheye image into a rectilinear one. I think just
 this will make me
 use the Zenitar 16mm more in the future.
 
 If someone knows of some more user friendly free
 programs for
 panoramas out there, I'd like to know. Not that I'm
 afraid of scripts
 and technicalities, but if I'm not being paid for
 them I rather do it
 the easy way...
 
 j
 
 --

---
  Juan J. Buhler | Sr. FX Animator @ PDI | Photos at
 http://www.jbuhler.com

---
 
 
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Re: LXII?

2001-07-28 Thread Pål Jensen

Alexander wrote:
 -
 Sorry I cannot find it at the moment, but my strong
 impression is that he mixed it up with the then to be
 released Contax N1 ... 



It indeed sounded like the Contax N1. I do believe the post was from september, 
october or perhaps november 1999  under the title introducing the LXII


Pål

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Re: Multi-segment metering and exposure compensation

2001-07-28 Thread Nicholas Wright

--
From: tom [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Multi-segment metering and exposure compensation
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2001, 10:55 AM

 In fact, I will be
 the first to admit that my best photos (no exceptions) were taken using the
 zone system with spot meter. And when the time presents itself, or when
 lighting conditions dictate (as in the above mentioned light source in
 photos) I will always switch to spot. But for journalistic stuff where one
 or so stop exposure error means less than the content of the photo it's
 matrix all the way.

 I agree, mostly. I'm in matrix mode often...I just don't always know
 what the camera is thinking, and I still don't after printing at least
 500 negs made in matrix mode.

 Lately, if I think the lighting isn't going to change much, I'll take a
 couple of spot readings and just work with those manually.

 tv

You know, I rarely print my own photos anymore; but if I did I would prolly
be saying the exact same thing. :) In fact, as I transition away from
getting prints from a lab and towards again doing all my own digital
correcting I suspect that I will pay more attention to exposure.

--
Nick
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Re:: Multi-segment metering and exposure compensation

2001-07-28 Thread Pål Jensen

Alin wrote:

Multisegment metering works great as long as you recognize it's a
scene for it. 


Exactly. And thats the point with any kind of meter.
Its also no big deal finding out which way you need to compensate. It works like any 
other meter trying to render everything mid toned. 

Of course, nothing of the above stands true for slide film. Except
maybe for Velvia that tolerates well one stop of overexposure, and
perhaps for RSX II 100, multisegment generally burns out the slides.
One extra stop - which is the common bias of multisegment if
there's any contrast at all in the scene - is incredibly harmful
for slide film. Saturation goes down, highlights burn out and the
whole picture looses all the fun.

The older multi pattern meters from Pentax seems to be slightly biased towards over 
exposure - you could say biased for print film. However, the 645n and the MZ-S is more 
tuned for slide film. 


Pål

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Re: Suggestion for a PUG

2001-07-28 Thread Cotty


 Having only been on the PDML for a couple of
months, has there aver been
 a 'self-portrait' themed month? I would have
thought that would be fairly
 interesting!

http://pug.komkon.org/00augu/index.html

FWIW, noodling around the links under the
thumbnail section opens up a whole new world of
informaton. There is a list of submission
guidelines (3 people for sure have read them)
[snip]

That's told me!

Thanks.

Cotty

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Questions RE: A20/2.8

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

Hi,

Does this lens have a front element that rotates?  How's the build
quality?  Is this lens noticeably sharper, more contrasty than the K? 
Does it have noticeably more resolution?  Thanks...
-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Suggestion for a PUG

2001-07-28 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: Cotty 



 That's told me!
 
Yer welcome.
L8R
Bill


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RE: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Len Paris

Hi Shel,

The f/1.0 Noctilux is not the fastest, however.  Canon sold an
f/0.95 that fit their rangefinder cameras years ago.

Len
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Re: Questions RE: A20/2.8

2001-07-28 Thread William Robb


- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff
Subject: Questions RE: A20/2.8


 Hi,

 Does this lens have a front element that
rotates?

No, they didn't put that feature on this lens.

How's the build quality?

Superb, really solid. Mine has no rattles at
all, focus is smooth and the aperture has an
excellent feel. It is a pretty hefty little
lens. In terms of build, it reminds me more of
my SMC-P 45mm, f/4.5 6x7 lens than anything else
(except smaller).

Is this lens noticeably sharper, more contrasty
than the K?

It is noticably sharper and contrastier than my
Tokina 17mm, I find it has excellent imaging
properties.

 Does it have noticeably more resolution?

It is very sharp. I don't have a K version to
compare it with.
Pity about the non rotating front element. I
always thought it was missing something.G
William Robb



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Why did my Zx-5 do this???

2001-07-28 Thread Ann Sanfedele

Hoping that it ws just because the batteries were running
low, but noting that
this particular thing had never happened to me before, I
address the panel.

I click off what is the 5th frame of a 24 frame roll and the
camera goes into
auto rewind.  I think - hmm, maybe I  misread and I was on
25 but no, when
the film came back, only 5 frames were there.

A few days later, it does it again, though not at exactly
the 5th frame, 
(So far no battery low sign has appeared, either.)  This
time I see it and
manage to get the film out at the critical point - reload -
etc, and go on.
Three times this happens.  I manage to rescue each time but,
hey - this is bad for
the nerves and clearly something screwy.  Can't this be
related to low battery?
Is it telling me it is too tire to take more right now thank
you?  Or do I
need to get it to the camera doc post haste?

Any answers here?

ann (didn't have the LX with me) san
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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

Hi Len,

It is the fastest lens currently in production.  It is the fastest
lans that you can walk into a store and buy. The 0.95 Canon has long
since bit the dust as a production item, is quite rare, and, for all
intents an purposes, is non-existent for day-to-day photography.  So,
while you're correct in that was once the fastest lens one could buy,
it no longer is.  Plus the Noctilux produces far better images.

Len Paris wrote:

 The f/1.0 Noctilux is not the fastest, however.  Canon sold an
 f/0.95 that fit their rangefinder cameras years ago.

-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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Re: Questions RE: A20/2.8

2001-07-28 Thread Shel Belinkoff

William Robb wrote:

  Does this lens have a front element that
  rotates?
 
 No, they didn't put that feature on this lens.

Sheesh! I'm disappointed.

 Pity about the non rotating front element. I
 always thought it was missing something.G

Well, maybe it'll have that feature on a subsequent model.
-- 
Shel Belinkoff
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why should I use a meter?  What if the darn thing broke on me
when I was out making a photograph? Then what would I do?
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RE: Idea re comments on the PUG

2001-07-28 Thread Cameron R. Hood

Or couldn't someone set up a grid thing whereby people can respond directly
on the page that the image is on, and then be able to view everyone's
comments on a given shot all in one location, along with the image in
question? I know it can be done, but I don't know how, nor do I know how
much server space, etc., this would require. I have seen sites like this
(although  can't think of any at the moment).

Cameron

PS Thanks to all who commented on what could have been my last shot 'Lynn
Headwaters'.

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RE: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread Frits J. Wüthrich

Gosh,  I thought professional only meant, its your way of earning an income,
I didn't realise it is so complicated!

Frits

 We're getting into some definition problems here.
 Is Professional:
   a. Build quality
   b. Feature Set
   c. Support Structure

 Can you remove any one of the three and still have
 a professional camera?

 I'd say yes, but a better pro solution would be to
 have all three present.

 Remove two and you've got a something strange, that
 no intelligent marketing department would support.

 My understanding is that Pentax has (a) and (b).  Not
 to the same degree as some others, but it's stuiable none-
 the-less.

 BTW, I've not seen (c) as a part any medium or large format
 professional solution.

 jmnsho,

 Collin

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RE: FA 24-90 Query

2001-07-28 Thread Frits J. Wüthrich

 On 26 Jul 2001, at 15:34, Frits J. Wüthrich wrote:
  While I was on vacation in Ireland (beautiful country, very friendly
  people) I noticed something with my lens: when zooming from 24 to 90
  mm, around 40mm there is a point where there is something snapping
  (don't know how to describe that correct due to my limited ability to
  express myself in the English language), you can feel it and even hear
  it. Going from 90 to 24 mm there is nothing. I am sure it wasn't there
  when I first got it. Are there others with the same experience? Any
  suggestions what it could be?

 No I haven´t notice anything like that. Could be some dust inside.

 Andreas
And today, when using the lens on a warm and sunny afternoon(too rare for my
taste) in England it was completely gone! Zooming in different positions,
and no trace of it. I hope it stays away.

Frits

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Re: Camera decsion...

2001-07-28 Thread Bob Walkden

Hi,

From the list you've supplied I'd suggest an MX, although they are a
little bit loud even for my deaf ears. You may be able to find a way
to muffle it.

If you extend the choice, but not to the extent of a Leica, the LX has
all the benefits of the MX, but is significantly quieter. However,
few things compares to a Leica for quietness, although David Hurn of
Magnum did buy a Canon consumer-grade camera because it was so quiet.

If you can get hold of a Pentax 50/1.2 lens you would do yourself a
big favour in the viewfinder brightness thing. Also, for both the MX
and the LX you can get ultra-bright screens for low-light shooting.

---

 Bob  

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Saturday, July 28, 2001, 5:41:17 AM, you wrote:

 I have somthing of a dilema. I need to get a quieter camera for some work 
 that I'll be doing in the near future, and also for when I want to carry
 something other than the pz1p. The requirements that I have is that this
 camera be small and discreet, extremely quiet, easily loadable, and the
 viewfinder data must be able to be read in near dark. The last reason being
 the main reason my k1000 is not suited for what I'm looking for. So I've
 narrowed it down to three cameras and I'd appreciate any feedback from
 others that have more experience with these cameras. I would be using manual
 focus lenses on it, taking photos in near dark (ie- fire/candlelight). The
 three cameras that I'm looking at are;

 1) ME Super... very small, very quiet. Don't like the buttons to change
 shutter speed, but I could get over it.
 2) MX... prolly the closest thing I'll ever get to what I'm looking for, but
 haven't I seen somewhere that it's actually kindof loud?
 3) zx5n... very quiet, and small. But how loud is the autorewind? and am I
 correct in saying that there is no way to override autorewind when you reach
 the end of the roll of film? Actually, the number one reason that I'm even
 considering this camera is because of the built in spot meter.

 Well, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 --
 Nick


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Re: Completely OT: gripe of the day

2001-07-28 Thread Gianfranco Irlanda

You should see what happened to me once.
A couple of months ago I had a slide show at a concert dedicated
to Dave Brubeck. The slides were projected on a curtain betweeen
the musicians and the public. The wife of the piano man, amongst
the public, recorded everything on tape.
When I saw the take I couldn't believe to my eyes...
The first 30 minutes of the take were normal, and somewhat dull.
Then, suddenly, the colors were gone and everything was strange.
The musicians were all dressed in black, but in that point of
the take only one still had a black shirt and trousers, the
others seemed to have changed their dress... Almost all looked
like they were dressed in white, or in very light grey (and the
scene, although brighter than before, looked normal. Even the
skin looked darker than the dresses...).
It was like an infrared effect... 

Gianfranco

- Original Message - 
From: Nicholas Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Completely OT: gripe of the day


 Yes, it is... but I've never seen it actually change the
color of a dress
 before.
 
 Nick
 
 --
 From: Keith Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Pentax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Completely OT:  gripe of the day
 Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001, 10:14 PM
 
 
 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:10:54 -0500
  From: Nicholas Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Completely OT:  gripe of the day
 
  Once we bought my wife a beautiful green dress at a store
only to get home
  and find that the dress was not, in fact, green; it was
brown. We played
  with it under different lights and found the exact same
thing, the dress
  changed to green when we went to a place with flourescents.
weird...
 
  - --
  DOH!
  Nick   
 
  That's because non-filtered flourescent light is green!  I
have to wear
  rose-tinted glasses because flourescent light gives me
migranes.


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
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Cable release question

2001-07-28 Thread Matt Kozak

I'm getting an MZ-S soon, so my old (but loved) ZX-50 will soon be
kiteworthy. This means I won't fret too much if it plummets 500 ft to its
almost certain demise.  Of course, taking aerial photographs raises the
interesting question of how to trip the shutter release -- a simple problem
with mechanical cameras that is compounded by these newfangled electronic
gizmos.  Does anyone out there know how the ZX series' electronic releases
work?  There are three pins on the camera's socket... Do I just to short two
of them or is there some hideous serial protocol? I'm trying to do something
more elegant than attaching a mechanical plunger to an electronic release
(things need to be light).

-matt kozak


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Re: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread William Robb

 Gosh,  I thought professional only meant, its
your way of earning an income,
 I didn't realise it is so complicated!

Maybe it should be like any other profession.
You get to call yourself a professional after
you have earned accreditation proving you know
what the hell you are doing. That would make it
simple.
You can do brain surgery by ramming a hocky
stick up a persons ass, but it is probably
better to have gone to medical school first.
William Robb


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Re: July thoughts

2001-07-28 Thread Dan Scott


 Hothouse Spiral  by  Dan Scott
   So much good bw this month.  Nice job.

Thanks Collin.

Dan Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Browser survey

2001-07-28 Thread William Robb



Greetings:I am wondering what 
browsers people are using for viewing the PUG. If you would kindly 
clickhereand 
tell me what version of which browser you are using,I would be most 
appreciative.ThanksWilliam Robb 


Re: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread ZawadiMedia

In a message dated 7/28/01 9:23:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Saturday 28 July 2001 16:36, you wrote:
  Gosh,  I thought professional only meant, its your way of earning an
  income, I didn't realise it is so complicated!
 
  Frits 

You wouldn't make light of the situation ~if~ you had to make a living at 
photography. ~Then~ what you choose matters. Think of a meat cutter. No way 
could they make a living with Ginsu knives, or a fire fighter go through a 
career with only an ordinary household water hose.

Of course there ~are~ parameters for a professional camera, SLR or not. 
While everyone makes light of it, nearly ~every~ SLR PENTAX made could serve 
as a pro camera, especially the bodies that have motors, (winders), use 
pro level (TTL) PENTAX flashes-etc. 
The talk would serve better ends if one spoke of the ~minimum~ requirements 
for a pro body. 
Certainly the LX, (a true system camera), PZ-1p, Super Program (system 
camera-lite) all fit in the pro category for SLRs. 
***Put a a little body sealing, (as in the PENTAX WR-90 PS), 1/250 or 
1/200th sec flash sync and auto-focus on the Super Program and pro camera 
jumps out at you. 

Then there are the MEs...   
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Re: Dig. Soft. - next - objects?

2001-07-28 Thread ZawadiMedia

In a message dated 7/28/01 9:47:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 So, I've try and use many different pano-programs but still have problems
 with opposite sort of software - objects modeling/viewing. 

MGI PhotoSuite lll (Platinum Edition).

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Re: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread Jon Hope

At 13:01 29/07/01, William wrote:
  Gosh,  I thought professional only meant, its
your way of earning an income,
  I didn't realise it is so complicated!

Maybe it should be like any other profession.
You get to call yourself a professional after
you have earned accreditation proving you know
what the hell you are doing. That would make it
simple.
You can do brain surgery by ramming a hocky
stick up a persons ass, but it is probably
better to have gone to medical school first.


Hi Bill.

There are two types of professional. Those that are associated with a 
profession (eg doctors, lawyers, prostitutes etc) and those that perform 
for reward. The former usually have to provide proof of association, the 
latter just have to make money from whatever it is they do (eg sports 
people, artists, craftsmen etc). Photographers, like any other artist, 
belongs to the latter group.

Most people in the latter group are usually always looking for ways to 
improve the way they do things. They take courses, read books, practice, 
and so forth. Too many of the former never progress past what they learnt 
when they were gaining their degrees (or whatever is required to be 
associated with their chosen profession). This then makes an interesting 
topic of discussion regarding the professionalism of professionals of a 
professed profession. :-)

How this relates back to professional cameras is beyond me. I always 
thought that a professional camera was a camera that a professional uses. 
shrug I also always thought that some people could use a $100,000 outfit 
and take worse photographs than someone else using a $5.00 disposable 
camera. The professionalism is in the photographer, not the camera. :-)

Cheers

Jon

Relax! Take life as it comes, you can't chase the sun, you can't race the wind

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Re: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread ZawadiMedia

In a message dated 7/29/01 1:50:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 The professionalism is in the photographer, not the camera. :-) 

OK, if it's ~that~ simple, ~you~ use the disposable and I'll use the MZ-S. 
I'll whip your butt everyday and twice on Sundays. 

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Re: Professional

2001-07-28 Thread Dan Scott

Maybe it should be like any other profession.
You get to call yourself a professional after
you have earned accreditation proving you know
what the hell you are doing. That would make it
simple.
You can do brain surgery by ramming a hocky
stick up a persons ass, but it is probably
better to have gone to medical school first.
William Robb

I can see it now, torn between his love of Hocky and the overwhelming urge
to address the suffering of those around him ... he was forced to
compromise. Thus was born the first Medicine on a Stick clinic. g

In an ideal world professionals would always be competent, and everyone
earning income from an activity would actually know something about what
they were doing, but ...

Dan Scott (g'nite, all)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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