Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Larry Colen]

On Apr 5, 2013, at 10:28 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote:

> Hi John, Stan, Bob and many other good PDMLers, I agree with you folks
> that we should not publish, depict, post or spread hatred on a Public Network.
> I have lived in many parts of the world, including my native Bangalore India.
> In some places I find the Police very haughty, high handed, loud and with
> an intimidating body language / swagger. They hand cuff people for petty
> misdemeanors, even when they are not violent.
> 
> Here in India or in Muscat, Oman and in Dubai, the UAE, I have never
> seen Police handcuffing people except in homicide cases or violent
> crimes. In fact I was surprised to find the Royal Oman Police very kind,
> helpful and humane.

About two months ago the Santa Clara police very politely handcuffed me because 
someone thought that my camera was a gun.

> 
> 
> I have seen such street art on a paid photo walk in San Francisco.
> Worst still we found folks absolutely naked on the streets of San Francisco,
> Castro District I think,  with the dingle-dangle and all in full
> public view. And
> there were children, women, tourists in the area.
> 
> I must say I am confused by the moral & social values in the Americas.

And what harm was caused to anyone from seeing someone's dingle dangle?

There are other places where it would be just as shocking for a woman to show 
her hair, or her face.


Do what thou will, as it harms none.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

The pledge doesn't specify any one god. It can be mother nature for those who 
so believe. Or the god of secularism. We each take our pick.

On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:22 AM, Bill  wrote:

> On 06/04/2013 8:58 PM, David Parsons wrote:
> > While I don't agree with the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge of
> > allegiance, I think it's an important thing to have to build a common
> > sense of national unity.
> 
> Depends on if your sense of national unity includes non Christians, doesn't 
> it? I'm sure all the Chinese immigrants, East Indian immigrants, or Muslim 
> immigrants to your country feel really included.
> You would do better to go back to flag worship.
> 
> bill
> 
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:

> Interspersed...
> 
> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
>> fit the definition of a public school.
> 
> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or 
> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My point is that 
> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a 
> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition.  The 
> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them.

But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem 
with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches 
the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and 
other options are available. Freedom is about options.

> 
> 
>> 
>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used
>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in
>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually
>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in
>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously
>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public
>> schools."
> 
> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid 
> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers.  
> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as 
> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on 
> the part of the student.
> 
>> 
>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to
>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions
>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and
>> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the
>> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge.
>> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the
>> competition  of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public
>> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem.
>> 
>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School".  If it's a
>>> school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are
>>> non-denominational.  However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a
>>> Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called
>>> "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are
>>> partially funded by taxpayer money.
>>> 
>>> The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the
>>> public schools".  Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't
>>> perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an
>>> education.
>>> 
>>> I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church
>>> and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational.
>>> 
>>> -p
>>> 
>>> On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
 I've never seen a United States public school that has religious
 affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional.
 
 Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin
  wrote:
 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> 
>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
> 
> Except in parts of the South and Midwest.
> 
> stan
> 
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this
 discussion..
 
 On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:
> ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding
> Public School, so I fully understand Western Values.
> ...
 What's wrong with this sentence?
>>> 
>>> Spurious logic.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
> 
> 
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>> 
>> 
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trailing shutter flash ??

[David J Brooks]

This was sent the other day, but i think , my gmail had reverted to
rich text so i'll try again.


I am going to try the above mentioned flash at the trampoline place
Monday. I  dont have anything really to play a round with here, but i
assume i need to set both the K-5 and af360 to trailing shutter to
work.??

Dave

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Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: trailing shutter flash ??

[Charles Robinson]

Nope. Set it on the camera and the flash will obey.


Charles Robinson
Sent from my phone, please pardon typos

On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:59, David J Brooks  wrote:

> This was sent the other day, but i think , my gmail had reverted to
> rich text so i'll try again.
> 
> 
> I am going to try the above mentioned flash at the trampoline place
> Monday. I  dont have anything really to play a round with here, but i
> assume i need to set both the K-5 and af360 to trailing shutter to
> work.??
> 
> Dave
> 
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
> 
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Re: Re: GESO Walking with the K-1

[Don Guthrie]

Thanks Ann, I would have loved to have you on the walk with me. You 
would have liked the old church that sat on that site. But a pyro burned 
it to the ground on his second try. They sent him away for 20 years. I 
have quite a collection of old churches & old bars they seem to get 
abandoned at the same rate these days.




pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 12:14:55 -0400
From: Ann Sanfedele
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: GESO Walking with the K-1
Message-ID:<516049ff.9000...@nyc.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I'd have enjoyed that walk.  Love ghosts signs - like the mex of urban
and small town... don't like the "modern" church much.  the last shot
reminds me of Chicago - The first Coca Cola sign I have a minor nit
with..  just trip a tiny bit off the bottom so that bit of white
something doesnt show...

THe first one is haunting - something out of Hollywood film noir in an
odd way.

nice walk!
ann

On 4/6/2013 12:01, Don Guthrie wrote:

>Took a walk with K-1 and 35mm. Liked the results so posted here for C&C.
>Any comments welcomed. Pretty much straight out of camera with normal
>adjust for raw.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/valdon/sets/72157633175078544/
>
>orhttp://flic.kr/s/aHsjEBtyWL
>



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Re: Re: GESO Walking with the K-1

[Don Guthrie]

Thank you Bruce, it took awhile to find a treatment I liked for the fire 
escapes.


pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 13:58:31 -0400
From: Bruce Walker
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: GESO Walking with the K-1
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Good stuff, Don. I love the colour in the Coke sign. Also love the
duotone fire escapes.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Don Guthrie  wrote:

>Took a walk with K-1 and 35mm. Liked the results so posted here for C&C. Any
>comments welcomed. Pretty much straight out of camera with normal adjust for
>raw.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/valdon/sets/72157633175078544/
>
>orhttp://flic.kr/s/aHsjEBtyWL
>



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Re: GESO Walking with the K-1

[Mark C]

Excellent collection, Ann. The colors in the faded sign shots are 
smashing. Those are my favorites though the shadow-play images are also 
great as is the duotone of the building and fire escapes. Great all around!


Mark

On 4/6/2013 12:01 PM, Don Guthrie wrote:
Took a walk with K-1 and 35mm. Liked the results so posted here for 
C&C. Any comments welcomed. Pretty much straight out of camera with 
normal adjust for raw.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/valdon/sets/72157633175078544/

or http://flic.kr/s/aHsjEBtyWL




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Re: GESO Walking with the K-1

[Don Guthrie]

Oops Brian I did forget a place holder there. Yeah I do love the level 
on the K-5. Thanks for looking.


Message: 6 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 08:20:08 +1000 From: Brian Walters 
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List  
Subject: Re: GESO Walking with the K-1 Message-ID: 
<20130407082008.horde.ifzyopzgffnryj_ywlca...@webmail.netregistry.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes 
Quoting Don Guthrie :

> Took a walk with K-1 and 35mm. Liked the results so posted here for
> C&C. Any comments welcomed. Pretty much straight out of camera with
> normal adjust for raw.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/valdon/sets/72157633175078544/
>
> or http://flic.kr/s/aHsjEBtyWL


A K-1!! Where did you get a K-1?  Do you know something the rest of us 
don't?


Oh, I see.  A K-01

Interesting set of images.  MY favourite is the old Coca Cola sign.
Very grungy.

Also IMGP3114 - nice interplay between the vertical lines of the
building and the tree shadows.  A tad of perspective correction might
improve it a bit.


-- Cheers Brian

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Re: Notes on the Pentax D-Li90 Battery

[Zos Xavius]

This had my curious, so I looked at my k-7 battery and it was chrome plated. 
Manufacture date  2009. I still regularly use that battery and have not had any 
problems with shorter battery life. 700 shots is attainable probably. I will 
clean my contacts though. My batteries always end up  in pants pockets.

Bipin Gupta  wrote:

>Some points on getting the most from the D-Li90 Battery:-
>a) Note: the Pentax battery supplied with the K-5 no longer has the
>better Gold plated contact pins. It is plain chrome plated only, and
>prone to oxidation, where an opaque layer or a film forms on the pins.
>b) Was frequently getting the depleted battery sign on the K-5 with
>the Pentax original battery. It gave just (400) shots from a full
>charged battery - flash not used.
>c) Used pure ethyl alcohol & Q-tips to clean the contact pins and then
>polished them off with a soft cloth.
>d) The depleted battery sign menace has gone away, and I now easily
>get around 700 shots.
>e) Last week a 3rd Party battery arrived from Singapore for $ 7
>shipped. Looks very good and matches the Pentax Amp Hour Rating - 1860
>Ah. I put it for charging in the Pentax original Charger. The Green
>charging light would come on and the shut down immediately. First
>thoughts - bad battery.
>Then I cleaned the contact pins as in Sl. c) above. And voila the
>battery charged very well.
>
>   f) I keep a voltage
>record of all my batteries - discharged and fully charged. The
>Singapore battery measured 8.50 volts vs 8.45 for the Pentax when
>fully charged. Which means it is just as good and will last longer
>than the Pentax original.
>g) How do I make this claim?I have kept voltage records of all my
>D-Li50 battery for the K20D for the last (4) Years. All the batteries
>are still going strong - (1) Pentax original and (3) 3rd Party. I use
>it in the Camera as well as in the original D-BG2 Grip.
>As the battery age, the full charge voltage keeps going down. Here are
>some results:- Pentax original when New - 8.46 v, after 42 months -
>8.24 v; 3rd Party 1 - 8.54 v & 8.28 v; 3rd Party 2 - 8.56 v & 8.17 v.
>And these 3rd Party batteries for the K20D are just as good even after
>(4) years - Amazon com and EvilBay purchases.
>Thanks for reading this post.
>Bipin - from the far away enchanting land.


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Photoshop Configuration Reset

[Mark C]

A while back I posted about some odd PS problems where key commands 
would not persist - select a tool via the keyboard and it would revert 
back to the prior tool after a couple of seconds. After some digging I 
found that this is an uncommon but known problem. None of the fizxes I 
found in the Adobe forums solved it, but I found that you can completely 
reset photoshop's preferences by holidng down CTRL-ALT-SHIFT while 
booting it. It deletes the configuration file and resets everything to 
default settings. I did that and this annoying problem is finally gone. 
Thought I'd pass this tip along.


Mark

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How to add signature file in LR, and video on how to create it in PS

[Igor Roshchin]

I posted the first half of this info in a different thread (in respons
to Bruce's 1.5-months-old message, so many PDMLers may not have seen
that. I am adding info on how to add the signature in LR.

I know that some PDMLers add signature in PS.
While there are a bunch of YouTube videos on how to do that, I find this 
tutorial more detailed:
http://goo.gl/l2jk2
Besides, it explains how to create the image for you signature, and
how to apply effects to it to improve the look.

I just recently did one more step of how to do add a signature in LR as a
watermark.
There is an important moment: one should save the signature image as PNG 
(not JPG!).
You should have that signature in PS without the background (only as a
layer), then you would end up with a transparent PNG, - so that only the
signature (as opposed to a rectangle under it) would show up in the 
watermark in LR.
For the rest of the process, - just use "edit watermark" menu, and 
choose the PNG file, and then choose the parameters you like. Those 
would depend on the photos and the colors of your signature image.
For mine, I found 50-55% transparency 7-8% size, and shift from 3:1 to
5:2 (horizontal:vertical) in the right bottom corner works the best.
YMMV.


HTH,

Igor



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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Bill]

On 07/04/2013 5:35 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

>
> The pledge doesn't specify any one god. It can be mother nature for 
those who so believe. Or the god of secularism. We each take our pick.


At best, you are being disingenuous.
I suspect that neither the Knights of Columbus nor Pastor Docherty were 
thiniing of the Flying Spaghetti Monster when they lobbied Congress to 
get God put into the pledge.


bill

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Bill]

On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

>

> But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition 
for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I 
>have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school 
or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as 
those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is 
about options.


As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into 
fixing your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate 
school system by and for the financial elites.
If freedom is really about options, it would be nice if that freedom was 
available to everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, 
you are limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay 
their way into a charter school.


bill

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in
the U.S. call private schools.

I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the
kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools".

From: Paul Stenquist

All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.

Paul via phone

On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:


On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:


In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion..

On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:

...
I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so
I fully understand Western Values.
...

What's wrong with this sentence?


Spurious logic.

B



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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

That clarifies things. Good to know.

On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

> What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in
> the U.S. call private schools.
> 
> I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the
> kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools".
> 
> From: Paul Stenquist
>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
 In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion..
 
 On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:
> ...
> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so
> I fully understand Western Values.
> ...
 What's wrong with this sentence?
>>> 
>>> Spurious logic.
>>> 
>>> B
> 
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

Some public "charter" schools are organized by religious organizations.

They're *not supposed* to proselytize or discriminate against children
from families that don't share their beliefs. Occasionally that actually
works.

From: Paul Stenquist

I've never seen a United States public school that has religious
affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional.

Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin
 wrote:



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:


All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.

Paul via phone


Except in parts of the South and Midwest.

stan



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:


On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele 
wrote:


In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this
discussion..

On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:

... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding
Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ...

What's wrong with this sentence?


Spurious logic.

B



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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Bill  wrote:

> On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
> > failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I >have no 
> > problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school 
> > that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as those schools 
> > are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options.
> 
> As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into fixing 
> your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate school system 
> by and for the financial elites.

With vouchers private schools aren't just for  the financial elite. And we've 
tried mightily to fix our public schools. I spent ten years working on it. But 
there are huge obstacles, including teacher unions that make it nearly 
impossible to get bad teachers out of the schools. Even with the performance 
standards recently enacted, less than 1 % of the current teaching staff has 
been judged ineffective. Yet their students are failing. Competition is the 
best answer.

> If freedom is really about options, it would be nice if that freedom was 
> available to everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, you 
> are limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay their way 
> into a charter school.

Again, a voucher system makes private schools accessible to all, while 
providing much needed competition for our public schools.

Paul
> 
> bill
> 
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Apr 07, 2013, Bill wrote:
>
> As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into
> fixing your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate
> school system by and for the financial elites.  If freedom is really
> about options, it would be nice if that freedom was available to
> everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, you are
> limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay their
> way into a charter school.

That's the whey to go!
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

Not so much squashed as shuffled off into the shadows until the heat 
dies down.


From: David Parsons

North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I 
would think it would be unconstitutional.

Paul
On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin  wrote:



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:


All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.

Paul via phone


Except in parts of the South and Midwest.

stan



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:


On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:


In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion..

On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:

...
I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so
I fully understand Western Values.
...

What's wrong with this sentence?


Spurious logic.

B



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Re:

[Steve Cottrell]

I hate (in no particular order)

banks

Marmite

really overcast cold days when I have to be out working

banks

stubbing the big toe on my left foot

ageing drivers who cut me up on roundabouts through ignorance

electric shocks from our cat

slow 3G

and banks


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

It's the North Carolina Legislature. The lunatics aren't the fringe.

From: Paul Stenquist

That's one from the lunatic fringe. Even if passed by the legislature, it 
wouldn't
have survived a week.

On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:38 PM, David Parsons  wrote:


North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Larry Colen]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> 
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
>> On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
>>> failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I >have no 
>>> problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school 
>>> that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as those schools 
>>> are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options.
>> 
>> As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into fixing 
>> your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate school system 
>> by and for the financial elites.
> 
> With vouchers private schools aren't just for  the financial elite. And we've 
> tried mightily to fix our public schools. I spent ten years working on it. 
> But there are huge obstacles, including teacher unions that make it nearly 
> impossible to get bad teachers out of the schools. Even with the performance 
> standards recently enacted, less than 1 % of the current teaching staff has 
> been judged ineffective. Yet their students are failing. Competition is the 
> best answer.

If you really want kids to do well in school, you just need to make sure that 
every kid has access to either an Asian or a Jewish mother.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:41 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

> It's the North Carolina Legislature. The lunatics aren't the fringe.

I can believe that.

> 
> From: Paul Stenquist
>> That's one from the lunatic fringe. Even if passed by the legislature, it 
>> wouldn't
>> have survived a week.
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:38 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
>> 
>>> North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed)
>>> 
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html
> 
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Re: OT: The Bay Area in 4K

[John Sessoms]

Although they claim they don't, TWC throttles bandwidth here in Raleigh
unless you subscribe to their "Turbo" option. It makes any streaming
content stutter & stall and almost impossible to watch. Since they have
an effective unregulated monopoly in this market subscribers have no
recourse.

I'm not sure "Turbo" would actually be any faster. I don't see how they
could do it without replacing the existing cables to the house, which
they don't do.

I think all "Turbo" does is bypass whatever filter they use to throttle
bandwidth for non-Turbo subscribers.


From: "Daniel J. Matyola"

Plays fine for me on both Optimum (office) and FiOS (home).

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:26 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

From: "Daniel J. Matyola"


Teton Gravity Research Aerial Reel - The Bay Area in 4K:

http://vimeo.com/62831216



Looks like it would be pretty cool. Unfortunately, Time Warner Cable wants
an additional $40 a month to provide enough bandwidth for it to actually
play.


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Steve Cottrell]

On 6/4/13, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

>My kids didn't recite the pledge of allegiance, and Grace doesn't do so
>today. I think that went away for the most part forty years ago or so.
>I'm not sure that it was a bad thing, but it's gone.

I used to put my hand on my heart and recite with all the other second-
graders in Mrs Bube's class. On the first day she wrote her name on the
board and firmly reinforced its pronunciation: "like c-u-b-e"...



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  Cotty


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

From: Paul Sorenson

Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
fit the definition of a public school.


I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to
private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My
point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if
they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay
tuition.  The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to
subsidize them.


Yeah. That's my big objection. I don't mind paying the taxes that go to 
public schools, but they're taxing me to pay for church schools.


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RE: trailing shutter flash ??

[John Sessoms]

From: David J Brooks

This was sent the other day, but i think , my gmail had reverted to
rich text so i'll try again.


I am going to try the above mentioned flash at the trampoline place
Monday. I  dont have anything really to play a round with here, but i
assume i need to set both the K-5 and af360 to trailing shutter to
work.??

Dave


I'm pretty sure setting the camera sets the on-board flash and the AF360 
control sets the AF360. Even with them both set to trailing curtain 
you're going to get a pre-flash when the shutter curtain opens.


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OT: Rant , with apologies in advance

[John Sessoms]

Got nowhere else to vent.

Someone hit my car yesterday morning - smashed the driver's side 
brake-light & busted off the driver's side mirror. Left a couple of 
gouges in the rear fender.


I know who it was, an old man driving an UN-liscensed John Deere Gator. 
I've seen him driving it on my street before.


One of my neighbors helped him get his "vehicle" untangled from mine and 
then shepherded him back to his home. Later, another of my neighbors 
came over & knocked on my door to wake me up and tell me my car had been 
hit.


No police report, no license information, no insurance. Don't know if 
he'd been drinking or not. Got no way to find out now.


The neighbor who shepherded him home says he goes to the same church & 
will get the people who take care of him to pay for repairing the damage.


I ain't holding my breath.

Assholes!

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Re: trailing shutter flash ??

[Charles Robinson]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:12 , John Sessoms  wrote:

> From: David J Brooks
>> This was sent the other day, but i think , my gmail had reverted to
>> rich text so i'll try again.
>> 
>> 
>> I am going to try the above mentioned flash at the trampoline place
>> Monday. I  dont have anything really to play a round with here, but i
>> assume i need to set both the K-5 and af360 to trailing shutter to
>> work.??
>> 
>> Dave
> 
> I'm pretty sure setting the camera sets the on-board flash and the AF360 
> control sets the AF360. Even with them both set to trailing curtain you're 
> going to get a pre-flash when the shutter curtain opens.
> 

I stand corrected.  To get trailing-curtain flash with the external, you have 
to set the external flash to that mode.  

 -Charles

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PESO: Bad Ass

[Charles Robinson]

>From the Roller Derby last night:

http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/mnrg_championship/content/K5__6499_large.html


 -Charles

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Re: K5 and high-speed cards

[Charles Robinson]

On Apr 6, 2013, at 13:49 , Charles Robinson  wrote:

> I picked up a couple of Sandisk SDHC 16GB "Ultra" cards which are rated as 
> Class 10 and 30MB/sec
> 
> I already have a Sandisk SDHC 16GB "Extreme" card which is rated Class 10 and 
> 30MB/sec
> 
> What's the difference?
> 

I ran a benchmark and the difference is "night and day".

The Class-10 "30MB/s" Extreme card has a 30MB/s write rate, and a 45MB/s read.

The Class-10 "30MB/s" Ultra card has a 10MB/s write rate, and a 44.5MB/s read.

One gets what one pays for, I guess! Good enough, though, as a "backup spare" 
when I run out of space for whatever reason.

Benchmark images below:

http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/sandisk_extreme.png

http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/sandisk_ultra.png

 -Charles

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Re: OT: The Bay Area in 4K

[Paul Sorenson]

You're right. They just throttle it down. We have the turbo and speedtest 
consistently reports 30Mb down and 5Mb up. 

-p

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 7, 2013, at 11:54 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:

> Although they claim they don't, TWC throttles bandwidth here in Raleigh
> unless you subscribe to their "Turbo" option. It makes any streaming
> content stutter & stall and almost impossible to watch. Since they have
> an effective unregulated monopoly in this market subscribers have no
> recourse.
> 
> I'm not sure "Turbo" would actually be any faster. I don't see how they
> could do it without replacing the existing cables to the house, which
> they don't do.
> 
> I think all "Turbo" does is bypass whatever filter they use to throttle
> bandwidth for non-Turbo subscribers.
> 
> 
> From: "Daniel J. Matyola"
>> Plays fine for me on both Optimum (office) and FiOS (home).
>> 
>> Dan
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:26 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
>>> From: "Daniel J. Matyola"
 
 Teton Gravity Research Aerial Reel - The Bay Area in 4K:
 
 http://vimeo.com/62831216
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Looks like it would be pretty cool. Unfortunately, Time Warner Cable wants
>>> an additional $40 a month to provide enough bandwidth for it to actually
>>> play.
> 
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Re: OT: The Bay Area in 4K

[Bob Sullivan]

John,
Don't feel bad, it stuttered and stopped here in suburban Chicago as
well with ATT U-verse.
I stopped it until it fully downloaded and then got a continuous play.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> Although they claim they don't, TWC throttles bandwidth here in Raleigh
> unless you subscribe to their "Turbo" option. It makes any streaming
> content stutter & stall and almost impossible to watch. Since they have
> an effective unregulated monopoly in this market subscribers have no
> recourse.
>
> I'm not sure "Turbo" would actually be any faster. I don't see how they
> could do it without replacing the existing cables to the house, which
> they don't do.
>
> I think all "Turbo" does is bypass whatever filter they use to throttle
> bandwidth for non-Turbo subscribers.
>
>
> From: "Daniel J. Matyola"
>>
>> Plays fine for me on both Optimum (office) and FiOS (home).
>>
>> Dan
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:26 PM, John Sessoms 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: "Daniel J. Matyola"


 Teton Gravity Research Aerial Reel - The Bay Area in 4K:

 http://vimeo.com/62831216
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like it would be pretty cool. Unfortunately, Time Warner Cable
>>> wants
>>> an additional $40 a month to provide enough bandwidth for it to actually
>>> play.
>
>
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Re:

[Bob W]

> electric shocks from our cat

You should get it neutraled.

B

On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:40, "Steve Cottrell"  wrote:

> I hate (in no particular order)
> 
> banks
> 
> Marmite
> 
> really overcast cold days when I have to be out working
> 
> banks
> 
> stubbing the big toe on my left foot
> 
> ageing drivers who cut me up on roundabouts through ignorance
> 
> electric shocks from our cat
> 
> slow 3G
> 
> and banks
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
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> ||  (O)  |Web Video Producion
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: Rant , with apologies in advance

[Bob Sullivan]

John, Maybe it's time for the local sheriff to get involved.  Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> Got nowhere else to vent.
>
> Someone hit my car yesterday morning - smashed the driver's side brake-light
> & busted off the driver's side mirror. Left a couple of gouges in the rear
> fender.
>
> I know who it was, an old man driving an UN-liscensed John Deere Gator. I've
> seen him driving it on my street before.
>
> One of my neighbors helped him get his "vehicle" untangled from mine and
> then shepherded him back to his home. Later, another of my neighbors came
> over & knocked on my door to wake me up and tell me my car had been hit.
>
> No police report, no license information, no insurance. Don't know if he'd
> been drinking or not. Got no way to find out now.
>
> The neighbor who shepherded him home says he goes to the same church & will
> get the people who take care of him to pay for repairing the damage.
>
> I ain't holding my breath.
>
> Assholes!
>
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Re: PESO: Bad Ass

[Jack Davis]

Not Bad ass!
Sweet, Charles.
 
Jack
 


 From: Charles Robinson 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List  
Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:52 AM
Subject: PESO: Bad Ass
  
>From the Roller Derby last night:

http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/mnrg_championship/content/K5__6499_large.html


-Charles

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Bob W]

On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:56, "Steve Cottrell"  wrote:

> On 6/4/13, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> My kids didn't recite the pledge of allegiance, and Grace doesn't do so
>> today. I think that went away for the most part forty years ago or so.
>> I'm not sure that it was a bad thing, but it's gone.
> 
> I used to put my hand on my heart and recite with all the other second-
> graders in Mrs Bube's class. On the first day she wrote her name on the
> board and firmly reinforced its pronunciation: "like c-u-b-e"...
> 
> 
> 
She could probably have taught a thing or two to our German teacher, Herr Kundt.

B

> 

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Bob W]

We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools, state-funded 
religious schools, privately-funded religious schools, city academies, 6th-form 
colleges, private tutors, community colleges, reform schools, schools of art, 
technical schools, schools of dolphins, seminaries, madrassas and football 
academies. 

They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher associations, 
local authorities, central government, the Football Association, Opus Dei, the 
Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel Blue, Tony Blair's creationist chums, 
and Abu Hamza. 

There are four national curricula. 

External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board, Oxford 
University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA, OCR, CIE, edexcel, 
CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue Perkins. 

Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and Sir James 
Savile (deceased).

The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted, Father Ted, 
and half a kilo of kumquats. 

Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education, who in turn 
is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to no-one.

It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent.

Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.)


On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:18, John Sessoms  wrote:

> What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in
> the U.S. call private schools.
> 
> I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the
> kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools".
> 
> From: Paul Stenquist
>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
 In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion..
 
 On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:
> ...
> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so
> I fully understand Western Values.
> ...
 What's wrong with this sentence?
>>> 
>>> Spurious logic.
>>> 
>>> B
> 
> 
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[George Sinos]

John -

I understand your feeling, but look at it this way.  If all of the
private schools closed tomorrow the public schools would have to
instantly absorb all of those children.  How many new schools would
your city need to build and how many additional teachers would your
city need to hire to handle the increased enrollment?

How much would that cost?  That figure is the amount that the public
schools are being subsidized by the private school parents.

Religious school or not - private schools save the taxpayers a lot of money.

In my area many or most of the public schools are at or near capacity.
 Several of the buildings have quite a few "temporary" classrooms in
trailers.  The school nearest me has had those temporary trailers
behind the school since I moved here in the mid '80s.  I don't know
how long they had been there before that.

There is no way the school system could absorb the thousands of kids
in private schools.  The public administrators have openly admitted
this on several occasions.

The private school parents voluntarily pay their taxes and private
tuition not only for religious reasons.  The private schools have
their own problems.  But that is a different topic.  Any tax dollars
that help keep the private schools open are tax dollars that would be
spent for those same students to be transferred to public schools.
And since most religious schools around here operate on a lot less
money per student, the cost to the tax payers would be even greater.

gs




George Sinos

www.GeorgesPhotos.net
www.GeorgeSinos.com


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:05 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Paul Sorenson
>>
>> Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>>
>>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
>>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
>>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
>>> fit the definition of a public school.
>>
>>
>> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to
>> private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My
>> point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if
>> they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay
>> tuition.  The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to
>> subsidize them.
>
>
> Yeah. That's my big objection. I don't mind paying the taxes that go to
> public schools, but they're taxing me to pay for church schools.
>
>
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Re: PESO: Bad Ass

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Not bad at all!

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
> From the Roller Derby last night:
>
> http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/mnrg_championship/content/K5__6499_large.html
>
>
>  -Charles
>
> --
> Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com
> Minneapolis, MN
> http://charles.robinsontwins.org
> http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson
>
>
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

"Competition for public schools"?

You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses 
don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down.

Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury".

Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder for 
them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do.

In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are already 
well off.

This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like 
"freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where to 
send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished students 
to have a quality education.

Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it.

Cheers, 
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Paul Stenquist 
Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested


On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:

> Interspersed...
> 
> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
>> fit the definition of a public school.
> 
> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or 
> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My point is that 
> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a 
> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition.  The 
> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them.

But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem 
with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches 
the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and 
other options are available. Freedom is about options.

> 
> 
>> 
>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used
>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in
>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually
>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in
>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously
>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public
>> schools."
> 
> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid 
> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers.  
> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as 
> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on 
> the part of the student.
> 
>> 
>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to
>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions
>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and
>> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the
>> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge.
>> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the
>> competition  of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public
>> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem.
>> 
>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School".  If it's a
>>> school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are
>>> non-denominational.  However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a
>>> Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called
>>> "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are
>>> partially funded by taxpayer money.
>>> 
>>> The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the
>>> public schools".  Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't
>>> perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an
>>> education.
>>> 
>>> I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church
>>> and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational.
>>> 
>>> -p
>>> 
>>> On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
 I've never seen a United States public school that has religious
 affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional.
 
 Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin
  wrote:
 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> 
>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
> 
> Except in parts of the South and Midwest.
> 
> stan
> 
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this
 discussion..
 

Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Daniel J. Matyola]

"You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If
businesses don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut
down.

Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury"."

Yes they do, although it isn't a "luxury."  Public school that are
failing are being shut down now, at least in New Jersey and New York.
The students are transferred to more competent school.  The building
are either re-purposed, or used for a new school, sometimes a charter
school.

"Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even
harder for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do.

In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are
already well off."

That is the talking point of the teacher unions, but it is far from
the truth.  Charter schools and other alternative schools have reduced
overcrowding in under-performing public schools, improving the ability
of the latter to improve.  Instead of favoring families that are
"well-off," vouchers make it possible for students from poor families
to attend schools with middle-class and "well-off" families.

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> "Competition for public schools"?
>
> You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses 
> don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down.
>
> Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury".
>
> Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder 
> for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do.
>
> In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are 
> already well off.
>
> This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like 
> "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where 
> to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished 
> students to have a quality education.
>
> Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it.
>
> Cheers,
> frank
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: Paul Stenquist 
> Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
>
>> Interspersed...
>>
>> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
>>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
>>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
>>> fit the definition of a public school.
>>
>> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or 
>> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My point is that 
>> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a 
>> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition.  The 
>> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them.
>
> But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
> failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem 
> with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that 
> preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are 
> succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used
>>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in
>>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually
>>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in
>>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously
>>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public
>>> schools."
>>
>> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid 
>> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers.  
>> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as 
>> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on 
>> the part of the student.
>>
>>>
>>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to
>>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions
>>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and
>>> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the
>>> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge.
>>> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the
>>> competition  of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public
>>> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem.
>>>
>>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It depends on your definition of a "Public School".  If it's a
 school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are
 non

Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

Our public schools have, for the most part, failed miserably at great cost. 
Voucher systems done correctly spend the same amount per pupil, and more of the 
money goes to education rather than support of an educational bureaucracy. I 
spent ten years in public schools that were overweight with administration and 
tolerated any and all kind of ineptitude. Competition is necessary. And it's 
here. We now have a fledgling network of charter schools in most states, and 
things are looking up. The only ones who are unhappy are the teacher unions,  
the fat cats who run them, and the pols who depend on them for votes.   
On Apr 7, 2013, at 3:34 PM, "knarftheria...@gmail.com" 
 wrote:

> "Competition for public schools"?
> 
> You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses 
> don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down.
> 
> Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury".
> 
> Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder 
> for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do.
> 
> In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are 
> already well off.
> 
> This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like 
> "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where 
> to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished 
> students to have a quality education.
> 
> Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it.
> 
> Cheers, 
> frank
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> From: Paul Stenquist 
> Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
> 
> 
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> 
>> Interspersed...
>> 
>> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
>>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
>>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
>>> fit the definition of a public school.
>> 
>> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or 
>> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My point is that 
>> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a 
>> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition.  The 
>> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them.
> 
> But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
> failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem 
> with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that 
> preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are 
> succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options.
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used
>>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in
>>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually
>>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in
>>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously
>>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public
>>> schools."
>> 
>> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid 
>> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers.  
>> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as 
>> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on 
>> the part of the student.
>> 
>>> 
>>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to
>>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions
>>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and
>>> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the
>>> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge.
>>> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the
>>> competition  of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public
>>> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem.
>>> 
>>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 It depends on your definition of a "Public School".  If it's a
 school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are
 non-denominational.  However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a
 Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called
 "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are
 partially funded by taxpayer money.
 
 The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the
 public schools".  Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't
 perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an
 education.
 
 I don't know if that meets the definition 

Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Paul Stenquist]

In other words, you have plenty of people competing to provide education. And 
it works well for you.

Paul
On Apr 7, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Bob W  wrote:

> We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools, 
> state-funded religious schools, privately-funded religious schools, city 
> academies, 6th-form colleges, private tutors, community colleges, reform 
> schools, schools of art, technical schools, schools of dolphins, seminaries, 
> madrassas and football academies. 
> 
> They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher associations, 
> local authorities, central government, the Football Association, Opus Dei, 
> the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel Blue, Tony Blair's creationist 
> chums, and Abu Hamza. 
> 
> There are four national curricula. 
> 
> External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board, Oxford 
> University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA, OCR, CIE, 
> edexcel, CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue Perkins. 
> 
> Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and Sir James 
> Savile (deceased).
> 
> The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted, Father Ted, 
> and half a kilo of kumquats. 
> 
> Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education, who in 
> turn is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to no-one.
> 
> It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent.
> 
> Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.)
> 
> 
> On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:18, John Sessoms  wrote:
> 
>> What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in
>> the U.S. call private schools.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the
>> kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools".
>> 
>> From: Paul Stenquist
>>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.
>>> 
>>> Paul via phone
>>> 
>>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:
>>> 
 On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
 
> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion..
> 
> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:
>> ...
>> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so
>> I fully understand Western Values.
>> ...
> What's wrong with this sentence?
 
 Spurious logic.
 
 B
>> 
>> 
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>> follow the directions.
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Re: PESO: Bad Ass

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/4/13, Charles Robinson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>From the Roller Derby last night:
>



Now yer cookin!


-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.)

I'm reporting you to OFTWAT.

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RE: PESO: Bad Ass

[John Sessoms]

From: Charles Robinson

From the Roller Derby last night:


http://charles.robinsontwins.org/photos/2013/mnrg_championship/content/K5__6499_large.html


 -Charles


That's a matter of opinion. I'd rate it higher. Up there with "Quite 
Nice!" in fact.


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Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested

[DagT]

The sick minds are there already, and they have their internet sites too. Many 
of them are closed but I know a couple of them and they do support and 
recommend criminal acts, even as far as murder. 

The reason for discussing weird and dangerous ideas in the open is that if they 
are left to themselves the ideas seam to be normal in their areas. Offering 
resistance to the ideas is a way to reduce the recruiting and making it clear 
that they are known, the ideas are discussed and that the majority does not 
agree with them, even though they may feel that they are within their small 
communities.

Dag Thrane
http://www.thrane.name



5. apr. 2013 kl. 23:59 skrev Bob Sullivan :

> DagT,
> This plants the idea in immature and sick minds that killing is OK.
> 'Look, they are recommending it on the internet.'  Or in 'Call to
> Duty' video games.
> Regards,  Bob S.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:43 PM, DagT  wrote:
>> And also, the once who initially is censored will increase the volume until 
>> they get attention, like children.
>> That was also one of the reasons our madman used after killing a lot of 
>> children. He felt that he was censored and not allowed to speak his opinion.
>> 
>> I think it is better to let them be discussed in the open. Most people will 
>> not be mislead by their opinions, and if they did the society as a whole has 
>> a major problem anyway.
>> 
>> DagT
>> 
>> 5. apr. 2013 kl. 22:54 skrev David Parsons :
>> 
>>> I disagree.  When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to
>>> their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust.
>>> 
>>> And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group,
>>> they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
 No Dave.
 Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea.
 I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons  
 wrote:
> Because that leads to censorship.  Censoring opinions that we don't
> like is fascist.
> 
> Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to 
> hear.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan  
> wrote:
>> John,
>> I'm with Stan.  Why don't we make the world a more civil place?
>> No more publishing threats to harm others.
>> It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms  
>> wrote:
>>> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment.
>>> 
>>> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP!
>>> 
>>> From: Stan Halpin
 
 As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem
 is that she posted it on a public forum.
 Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is
 going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats
 against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a
 serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post 
 it.
 I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable.
 
 stan
 
 On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote:
 
> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for
> photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually
> receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin  
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> You may want to think what photos you post:
>> 
>> http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Igor
>> 
>> 
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Re: OT: Rant , with apologies in advance

[John Sessoms]

If they'd just woke me up while the guy was still there, I could have
called the police & got a police report.

But after the neighbor made sure the old man and his vehicle got home
before anyone decided to tell me about it, I've got no "evidence". I
"know" there's an old man who drives up and down my street on an
unlicensed vehicle, and the neighbor says that's who hit my car. I don't
even know the man's name or where he lives.

All I have is the neighbor's word that he knows who the man is from his
church & he's going to get the man's caregivers to pay for the repair.
Haven't heard anything from the man's caregivers. I've got nothing a
court would accept as proof of his liability.

I'm trying not to be angry about this so the anger won't make me sick,
but it really irritates me.

From: Bob Sullivan

John, Maybe it's time for the local sheriff to get involved.  Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

Got nowhere else to vent.

Someone hit my car yesterday morning - smashed the driver's side brake-light
& busted off the driver's side mirror. Left a couple of gouges in the rear
fender.

I know who it was, an old man driving an UN-liscensed John Deere Gator. I've
seen him driving it on my street before.

One of my neighbors helped him get his "vehicle" untangled from mine and
then shepherded him back to his home. Later, another of my neighbors came
over & knocked on my door to wake me up and tell me my car had been hit.

No police report, no license information, no insurance. Don't know if he'd
been drinking or not. Got no way to find out now.

The neighbor who shepherded him home says he goes to the same church & will
get the people who take care of him to pay for repairing the damage.

I ain't holding my breath.

Assholes!



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PAW170 - Ice

[DagT]

http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/PAW/files/page7-1000-full.html
Pentax K-5, DA*16-50mm@43mm  f/3.5, 1/80s, ISO100

DagT
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Wanted: large format inkjet printer (black only)

[Darren Addy]

Just thought I'd throw this out there. I'm in the market for a large
format inkjet printer. I don't care if a color is plugged, but I do
require monochrome (black) ink to work correctly. Drop me a line.
(Min. 13" wide)

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Re: OT: Rant , with apologies in advance

[Bob Sullivan]

John,
You do it so the police can talk to the neighbor who told you
and have a record of the guy being in need of care.
Perhaps they would even pay him a visit asking some questions.
...Maybe even enough to scare him or the care givers.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 5:11 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> If they'd just woke me up while the guy was still there, I could have
> called the police & got a police report.
>
> But after the neighbor made sure the old man and his vehicle got home
> before anyone decided to tell me about it, I've got no "evidence". I
> "know" there's an old man who drives up and down my street on an
> unlicensed vehicle, and the neighbor says that's who hit my car. I don't
> even know the man's name or where he lives.
>
> All I have is the neighbor's word that he knows who the man is from his
> church & he's going to get the man's caregivers to pay for the repair.
> Haven't heard anything from the man's caregivers. I've got nothing a
> court would accept as proof of his liability.
>
> I'm trying not to be angry about this so the anger won't make me sick,
> but it really irritates me.
>
> From: Bob Sullivan
>>
>> John, Maybe it's time for the local sheriff to get involved.  Regards,
>> Bob S.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM, John Sessoms 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Got nowhere else to vent.
>>>
>>> Someone hit my car yesterday morning - smashed the driver's side
>>> brake-light
>>> & busted off the driver's side mirror. Left a couple of gouges in the
>>> rear
>>> fender.
>>>
>>> I know who it was, an old man driving an UN-liscensed John Deere Gator.
>>> I've
>>> seen him driving it on my street before.
>>>
>>> One of my neighbors helped him get his "vehicle" untangled from mine and
>>> then shepherded him back to his home. Later, another of my neighbors came
>>> over & knocked on my door to wake me up and tell me my car had been hit.
>>>
>>> No police report, no license information, no insurance. Don't know if
>>> he'd
>>> been drinking or not. Got no way to find out now.
>>>
>>> The neighbor who shepherded him home says he goes to the same church &
>>> will
>>> get the people who take care of him to pay for repairing the damage.
>>>
>>> I ain't holding my breath.
>>>
>>> Assholes!
>
>
>
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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[Bob W]

On 7 Apr 2013, at 21:41, "Steve Cottrell"  wrote:

> On 7/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.)
> 
> I'm reporting you to OFTWAT.
> 
Cameron abolished it. Self defence.

B

> 

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

From: Bob W

We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools,
state-funded religious schools, privately-funded religious schools,
city academies, 6th-form colleges, private tutors, community
colleges, reform schools, schools of art, technical schools, schools
of dolphins, seminaries, madrassas and football academies.



Which of the schools on that list would be the equivalent of U.S.
"public schools"?

Here in the U.S., local governments - city, town, county, ... - pay for
(theoretically) free, tax supported, "public schools" for ALL children.

The main tax funding for these schools comes from the state, but local
jurisdiction taxes supplement this and the state money is to the local
jurisdiction based on a per pupil basis. The local school system has
most of the control over how the money is divided between salaries,
supplies and physical plant, although the state can mandate the local
system must pay for certain programs (usually because some court has
ruled the state must provide the service of that program).

Attendance by "school age" children is compulsory, although there are
exceptions allowing for private schooling, be it church run academies,
home schools, or Montessori, etc. "School age" is from Kindergarten (age
5) until you graduate from high school (grade 12) or reach your 16th
birthday.

Generally "private" schools are not eligible for taxpayer funding,
except that North Carolina provides funds for "Pre-K" education of 4
year olds. Many of those early childhood education programs are hosted
by private institutions, including churches.

Some other states have other exceptions. I think New York state funds
school lunches at religious schools.


They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher
associations, local authorities, central government, the Football
Association, Opus Dei, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel
Blue, Tony Blair's creationist chums, and Abu Hamza.

There are four national curricula.

External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board,
Oxford University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA,
OCR, CIE, edexcel, CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue
Perkins.

Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and
Sir James Savile (deceased).

The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted,
Father Ted, and half a kilo of kumquats.

Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education,
who in turn is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to
no-one.

It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent.

Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.)



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Re: PAW170 - Ice

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Interesting.

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:14 PM, DagT  wrote:
> http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/PAW/files/page7-1000-full.html
> Pentax K-5, DA*16-50mm@43mm  f/3.5, 1/80s, ISO100
>
> DagT
> http://www.thrane.name/
>
>
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Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

You're absolutely right, John. For Freedom of Speech to have any meaning, 
offensive speech must be protected, too. Abhorrent opinions must be protected. 
Because I don't want some beaurocrat, politician or judge drawing the line.

The photo may have made us feel uneasy and no one here advocates murder, but 
that young lady, no matter her personal history, was not advocating it, simply 
portraying the message of another. 

What, someone is suddenly going to go shoot a cop and say, "Well, I wasn't 
going to, but I saw this photo..." 

Let's be real. She was arrested because cops don't like her.

The arrest was wrong and she will almost certainly beat the charges. At least, 
she should...

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13
To: pdml@pdml.net

You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope",
justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part
of some cop hating group or something".

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Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

FYI:

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which forms part of our 
Constitution), section 2(b):

 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:  
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of 
the press and other media of communication.

cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13


I also note this happened in Canada where they don't have 1st Amendment
rights.

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Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

Yeah, not saying Canadians don't have rights, just heading off any 
objection that I'm trying to apply the U.S. Constitution to a story 
about something that happened in Canada.


From: "knarftheriault

FYI:

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which forms part of our 
Constitution), section 2(b):

 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of 
the press and other media of communication.

cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13


I also note this happened in Canada where they don't have 1st Amendment
rights.



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Re: K5 and high-speed cards

[Rick Womer]

Uphill in both directions!
 



- Original Message -
From: Tim Bray 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2013 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: K5 and high-speed cards

20 MB/sec!  Kids these days... in my day we had to hand-carry each
individual byte and fit it carefully into place.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:22 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
> From what I have been reading, the K-5 writes at 20MB/s, so anything
> faster is basically wasted on the camera.
>
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
>> I picked up a couple of Sandisk SDHC 16GB "Ultra" cards which are rated as 
>> Class 10 and 30MB/sec
>>
>> I already have a Sandisk SDHC 16GB "Extreme" card which is rated Class 10 
>> and 30MB/sec
>>
>> What's the difference?
>>
>> Each of 'em let me get about 28 shots in 10 seconds (REALLY slows down when 
>> the buffer is full) so I'm not clear what the distinction between Extreme 
>> and Ultra is.  Maybe there is none.
>>
>> Lastly: Is the K5 able to take advantage of anything faster?  My thought 
>> is... nope.  But I'm just curious.
>>
>> I have a press pass to shoot Roller Derby tonight and "faster is better" for 
>> this sport
>>
>>
>>  -Charles
>>
>> --
>> Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com
>> Minneapolis, MN
>> http://charles.robinsontwins.org
>> http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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> http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com
>
> Aloha Photographer Photoblog
> http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: GESO: Spring Visitors

[Rick Womer]

Nice.  I particularly like 1, 2, and 21.

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Stan Halpin 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:49 PM
Subject: GESO: Spring Visitors

I've been sidetracked from finishing up my Caribbean photos by some lovely 
birds arriving from the south. Here are three of the more colorful . . .

http://photos.stanhalpin.com/p764918074

Enjoy!

stan
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Re: Hello!

[Rick Womer]

And doing our twaxes.
 
Rick


- Original Message -
From: Bruce Walker 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Hello!

Be vewy vewy quiet, we're hunting wabbits.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> Why so quiet?
>
> J
>
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-- 
-bmw

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Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested

[John Sessoms]

Seems like here in the U.S. there's been an all out war waged on free, 
tax-payer supported public schools going back almost 60 years (if not 
longer). The schools are losing the war.


Started on or about May 18, 1954.

From: "knarftheriault

"Competition for public schools"?

You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses 
don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down.

Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury".

Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder for 
them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do.

In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are already 
well off.

This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like "freedom of 
choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where to send their kids while 
vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished students to have a quality education.

Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Paul Stenquist 
Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested


On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:


Interspersed...

On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make
their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is
compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really
fit the definition of a public school.


I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or 
religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word.  My point is that they 
have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a private 
school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition.  The taxpayers do 
not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them.


But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our 
failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem 
with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches 
the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and 
other options are available. Freedom is about options.



Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used
in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in
1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually
rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in
that federal student loans have always been available at religiously
affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public
schools."


Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid with 
no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers.  Student 
loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as well as 
other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on the part of 
the student.



In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to
charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions
-- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and
religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the
margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge.
That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the
competition  of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public
schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem.

Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson 
wrote:


It depends on your definition of a "Public School".  If it's a
school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are
non-denominational.  However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a
Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called
"voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are
partially funded by taxpayer money.

The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the
public schools".  Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't
perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an
education.

I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church
and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational.

-p

On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

I've never seen a United States public school that has religious
affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional.

Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin
 wrote:



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:


All U.S. public schools are non-demominational.

Paul via phone


Except in parts of the South and Midwest.

stan



On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W 
wrote:


On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele 
wrote:


In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this
discussion..

On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote:

... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding
Public Sch

Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

[Rick Womer]

"Not found". Sigh.
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Bob W 
To: Mail List Pentax-Discuss 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:23 PM
Subject: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

The thing I find most impressive is the 1945 iPad at 1:13.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=USHsFv8nNSA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUSHsFv8nNSA

B
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Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

[Rick Womer]

Thanks, Cotty!
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Steve Cottrell 
To: pentax list 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2013 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

On 5/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>The thing I find most impressive is the 1945 iPad at 1:13.
>
>http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=USHsFv8nNSA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv
>%3DUSHsFv8nNSA

Bob's playing on his new iPad ;-)

This link will work:





-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__    Broadcast, Corporate,
||  (O)  |    Web Video Producion
--    
_



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Re:

[Ann Sanfedele]

so how do you really feel?

ann

On 4/7/2013 12:40, Steve Cottrell wrote:

I hate (in no particular order)

banks

Marmite

really overcast cold days when I have to be out working

banks

stubbing the big toe on my left foot

ageing drivers who cut me up on roundabouts through ignorance

electric shocks from our cat

slow 3G

and banks




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PESO - Old Rennes and New

[Rick Womer]

Some of the "new" Rennes is in the background:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17110053&size=lg


(K-5, DA 16-45)

I like the way the 15th century buildings house 21st century shops and their 
signs.

Comments appreciated!

Rick

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Re: GESO: Spring Visitors

[Stan Halpin]

Thanks Rick. Haven't seen the wood duck (#1) on the water again since that 
first afternoon. The hawk (#21) was yesterday's catch. We also had a piliated 
woodpecker pass through the yard yesterday but he didn't stick around, I guess 
he didn't realize that he had a portrait session scheduled. 

stan


On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:27 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

> Nice.  I particularly like 1, 2, and 21.
> 
> Rick
>  
> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Stan Halpin 
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 4:49 PM
> Subject: GESO: Spring Visitors
> 
> I've been sidetracked from finishing up my Caribbean photos by some lovely 
> birds arriving from the south. Here are three of the more colorful . . .
> 
> http://photos.stanhalpin.com/p764918074
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> stan
> -- 


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K5-IIs locks up - did the recent firmware updates fix it?

[Igor Roshchin]

It was the first time since I bought k5-IIs that the battery ran out of
juice. 
The camera was in the video mode, and got locked up in that mode.
Turning it off did not switch it off. The only way I could switch it off
was by removing the battery.
It happened twice (with two different batteries).

It looks like this bug has not been fixed in the II from the original
K5. :-(

I am on the original firmware. Does anybody know if the recent updates
fixed this problem?

Igor


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Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested)

[Stan Halpin]

Speaking of education, (trying to segue back closer to on-topic),  I and 200± 
others spent the day sitting in very uncomfortable chairs in a poorly 
ventilated room, drinking conference-hotel coffee while listening to a series 
of presentations on how to do nature photography. I really hate conference 
hotel chairs, coffee, sound systems, ventilation, etc.,(as well as my hatred 
for drivers who don't understand roundabouts, a feeling I know I share with 
Dave and Cotty) but despite that it was time well spent and I came away with 
some food for thought. Also frustration. I would really like to play with a 
tilt-shift lens, I would like to have auto-coupled extension tubes, and I would 
like AF1.4 and 2.0 tele-extenders of a quality consistent with my lenses. Given 
that I am not going to switch to a different system, I can't do much about any 
of those items. But I can revisit the functionality I do have available such as 
rear-button focusing, use of LV as a focusing aid, more attention to histograms 
in setting exposure, etc.

Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it worthwhile 
to spend a day listening to an accomplished craftsman talk about his way of 
doing things. 

stan

On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:02 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

> You're absolutely right, John. For Freedom of Speech to have any meaning, 
> offensive speech must be protected, too. Abhorrent opinions must be 
> protected. Because I don't want some beaurocrat, politician or judge drawing 
> the line.
> 
> The photo may have made us feel uneasy and no one here advocates murder, but 
> that young lady, no matter her personal history, was not advocating it, 
> simply portraying the message of another. 
> 
> What, someone is suddenly going to go shoot a cop and say, "Well, I wasn't 
> going to, but I saw this photo..." 
> 
> Let's be real. She was arrested because cops don't like her.
> 
> The arrest was wrong and she will almost certainly beat the charges. At 
> least, she should...
> 
> Cheers,
> frank
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> From: John Sessoms 
> Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> 
> You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope",
> justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part
> of some cop hating group or something".
> 


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RE: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Real bikes made by real people. 

Cool music, too!

cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Bob W 
Sent: April 5, 2013 4/5/13
To: "Mail List Pentax-Discuss" 
Subject: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

The thing I find most impressive is the 1945 iPad at 1:13.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=USHsFv8nNSA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUSHsFv8nNSA

B
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Re: K5-IIs locks up - did the recent firmware updates fix it?

[Stan Halpin]

I think I have the most recent firmware installed in my K-5II (i.e., ver 1.03). 
During my Caribbean trip, I had 2-3 occasions when the camera froze while On 
(in normal photo mode, not video). Would not turn off. Took out battery, waited 
5-10 seconds, re-installed battery and just continued on where I left off. 
IIRC, it was always with my 35/2.8 macro lens, but since I used that lens for a 
high proportion of my shots, I can't be sure whether the fault was in the body 
or in the body-lens pairing.

stan

On Apr 7, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:

> 
> 
> It was the first time since I bought k5-IIs that the battery ran out of
> juice. 
> The camera was in the video mode, and got locked up in that mode.
> Turning it off did not switch it off. The only way I could switch it off
> was by removing the battery.
> It happened twice (with two different batteries).
> 
> It looks like this bug has not been fixed in the II from the original
> K5. :-(
> 
> I am on the original firmware. Does anybody know if the recent updates
> fixed this problem?
> 
> Igor
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: PESO - Old Rennes and New

[Mark Roberts]

Rick Womer wrote:

>Some of the "new" Rennes is in the background:
>
>http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17110053&size=lg

Ah, I love France! That street scene reminds me of Tours:
http://www.robertstech.com/pages/loire_30.htm

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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RE: PESO - Old Rennes and New

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

I like this one. Very nicely composed, interesting architecture, the 
pedestrians are well-placed.

Overall a terrific street photo!

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Rick Womer 
Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
To: Pentax List 
Subject: PESO - Old Rennes and New

Some of the "new" Rennes is in the background:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17110053&size=lg


(K-5, DA 16-45)

I like the way the 15th century buildings house 21st century shops and their 
signs.

Comments appreciated!

Rick

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PESO - Breakfast of Champions (messenger content)

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Not exactly Wheaties:

 http://mondociclismo.blogspot.ca/2013/03/breakfast-of-champions.html?m=1

;-)

Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome (but honesty not expected on this one). 
 :-P

cheers,
frank
 

"For me, the camera is a sketch book, an instrument of intuition and 
spontaneity." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
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Re: Hello!

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Did mine yesterday.

Oh what a relief it is...

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Rick Womer 
Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Hello!

And doing our twaxes.
 
Rick


- Original Message -
From: Bruce Walker 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Hello!

Be vewy vewy quiet, we're hunting wabbits.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> Why so quiet?
>
> J
>
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-- 
-bmw

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pentax on TV

[Paul Stenquist]

ON Mad Men tonight: A guy in an elevator talking to Don Draper: "What's that 
camera you're selling, Pentax? No, it's Leica," answers Draper. "I've got a 
closet full of them. Come by. I'll give you one."
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Re: Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested)

[Larry Colen]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 6:08 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:
> 
> 
> Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it 
> worthwhile to spend a day listening to an accomplished craftsman talk about 
> his way of doing things. 

Mark!
> 

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est


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RE: K5-IIs locks up - did the recent firmware updates fix it?

[J.C. O'Connell]

when in doubt, yank battery out!  That always works, if it doesn't something
is seriously wrong...

-
J.C.O'Connell
hifis...@gate.net
-

-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Igor Roshchin
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:02 PM
To: PDML@pdml.net
Subject: K5-IIs locks up - did the recent firmware updates fix it?



It was the first time since I bought k5-IIs that the battery ran out of
juice. 
The camera was in the video mode, and got locked up in that mode.
Turning it off did not switch it off. The only way I could switch it off
was by removing the battery.
It happened twice (with two different batteries).

It looks like this bug has not been fixed in the II from the original
K5. :-(

I am on the original firmware. Does anybody know if the recent updates
fixed this problem?

Igor


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Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

[John Sessoms]

It's some kind of mobile YouTube app for iPads.

I had to just search YouTube for "How a Bicycle Is Made (1945)" to get 
it to play on my computer.


From: Rick Womer

"Not found". Sigh.
?
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Bob W 
To: Mail List Pentax-Discuss 
Cc:
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:23 PM
Subject: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

The thing I find most impressive is the 1945 iPad at 1:13.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=USHsFv8nNSA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUSHsFv8nNSA

B



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Re: K5-IIs locks up - did the recent firmware updates fix it?

[Joseph McAllister]

On Apr 7, 2013, at 18:44 , J.C. O'Connell wrote:

> when in doubt, yank battery out!  That always works, if it doesn't something
> is seriously wrong...
> 
> -
> J.C.O'Connell
> hifis...@gate.net
> -

Isn't that what they tried to hammer into our noggins in the high school 
"Social Health Classes"?


Joseph McAllister
 Pentaxian






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Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Worked for me on my Android.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made

It's some kind of mobile YouTube app for iPads.

I had to just search YouTube for "How a Bicycle Is Made (1945)" to get 
it to play on my computer.

From: Rick Womer
> "Not found". Sigh.
> ?
> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Bob W 
> To: Mail List Pentax-Discuss 
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 5:23 PM
> Subject: OT: How A Bicycle Is Made
>
> The thing I find most impressive is the 1945 iPad at 1:13.
>
> http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=USHsFv8nNSA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUSHsFv8nNSA
>
> B


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Re: PESO - Old Rennes and New

[Tim Bray]

BTW, why are you in Rennes? -T

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Rick Womer  wrote:
> Some of the "new" Rennes is in the background:
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17110053&size=lg
>
>
> (K-5, DA 16-45)
>
> I like the way the 15th century buildings house 21st century shops and their 
> signs.
>
> Comments appreciated!
>
> Rick
>
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PESO: Finally -- Spring!

[Daniel J. Matyola]

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17131096
The Daffodils
by William Wordsworth

I wandered lonely as a cloud
   That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
   A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
   And twinkle on the Milky Way,
They stretched in never-ending line
   Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced, but they
   Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A Poet could not but be gay,
   In such a jocund company:
I gazed--and gazed--but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
   In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
   Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get youarrested)

[kwaller]

Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it 
worthwhile to spend a day listening to an >accomplished craftsman talk 
about his way of doing things.


About the only thing better is to work along side a pro in the field to see 
how he accomplishes his craft and to try to gain an insight into his ability 
to see subjects and compositions.


Was this presentation put on by a group or an individual?


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Stan Halpin" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:08 PM
Subject: Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get 
youarrested)



Speaking of education, (trying to segue back closer to on-topic),  I and 
200± others spent the day sitting in >very uncomfortable chairs in a poorly 
ventilated room, drinking conference-hotel coffee while listening to a 
>series of presentations on how to do nature photography. I really hate 
conference hotel chairs, coffee, sound >systems, ventilation, etc.,(as well 
as my hatred for drivers who don't understand roundabouts, a feeling I know 
>I share with Dave and Cotty) but despite that it was time well spent and I 
came away with some food for >thought. Also frustration. I would really 
like to play with a tilt-shift lens, I would like to have auto-coupled 
>extension tubes, and I would like AF1.4 and 2.0 tele-extenders of a 
quality consistent with my lenses. Given >that I am not going to switch to 
a different system, I can't do much about any of those items. But I can 
>revisit the functionality I do have available such as rear-button 
focusing, use of LV as a focusing aid, more >attention to histograms in 
setting exposure, etc.


Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it 
worthwhile to spend a day listening to an >accomplished craftsman talk 
about his way of doing things.


stan

On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:02 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

You're absolutely right, John. For Freedom of Speech to have any meaning, 
offensive speech must be protected, too. Abhorrent opinions must be 
protected. Because I don't want some beaurocrat, politician or judge 
drawing the line.


The photo may have made us feel uneasy and no one here advocates murder, 
but that young lady, no matter her personal history, was not advocating 
it, simply portraying the message of another.


What, someone is suddenly going to go shoot a cop and say, "Well, I wasn't 
going to, but I saw this photo..."


Let's be real. She was arrested because cops don't like her.

The arrest was wrong and she will almost certainly beat the charges. At 
least, she should...


Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13
To: pdml@pdml.net

You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope",
justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part
of some cop hating group or something".




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Re: Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get youarrested)

[Stan Halpin]

It was mostly done by John Gerlach - a series of four topic presentations, two 
in the morning, two in the afternoon. Barbara Gerlach assisted and then did the 
re-cap segment at the end.
I'll be taking a week-long workshop with them in the UP in August - should be 
interesting.

stan

On Apr 8, 2013, at 12:07 AM,  wrote:

>> Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it 
>> worthwhile to spend a day listening to an >accomplished craftsman talk about 
>> his way of doing things.
> 
> About the only thing better is to work along side a pro in the field to see 
> how he accomplishes his craft and to try to gain an insight into his ability 
> to see subjects and compositions.
> 
> Was this presentation put on by a group or an individual?
> 
> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Stan Halpin" 
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:08 PM
> Subject: Photo Workshop (Was Re: Posting photos of street art can get 
> youarrested)
> 
> 
>> Speaking of education, (trying to segue back closer to on-topic),  I and 
>> 200± others spent the day sitting in >very uncomfortable chairs in a poorly 
>> ventilated room, drinking conference-hotel coffee while listening to a 
>> >series of presentations on how to do nature photography. I really hate 
>> conference hotel chairs, coffee, sound >systems, ventilation, etc.,(as well 
>> as my hatred for drivers who don't understand roundabouts, a feeling I know 
>> >I share with Dave and Cotty) but despite that it was time well spent and I 
>> came away with some food for >thought. Also frustration. I would really like 
>> to play with a tilt-shift lens, I would like to have auto-coupled >extension 
>> tubes, and I would like AF1.4 and 2.0 tele-extenders of a quality consistent 
>> with my lenses. Given >that I am not going to switch to a different system, 
>> I can't do much about any of those items. But I can >revisit the 
>> functionality I do have available such as rear-button focusing, use of LV as 
>> a focusing aid, more >attention to histograms in setting exposure, etc.
> 
>> Even if, like me, you already know everything, you may well find it 
>> worthwhile to spend a day listening to an >accomplished craftsman talk about 
>> his way of doing things.
> 
> stan
> 
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:02 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> You're absolutely right, John. For Freedom of Speech to have any meaning, 
>> offensive speech must be protected, too. Abhorrent opinions must be 
>> protected. Because I don't want some beaurocrat, politician or judge drawing 
>> the line.
>> 
>> The photo may have made us feel uneasy and no one here advocates murder, but 
>> that young lady, no matter her personal history, was not advocating it, 
>> simply portraying the message of another.
>> 
>> What, someone is suddenly going to go shoot a cop and say, "Well, I wasn't 
>> going to, but I saw this photo..."
>> 
>> Let's be real. She was arrested because cops don't like her.
>> 
>> The arrest was wrong and she will almost certainly beat the charges. At 
>> least, she should...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> frank
>> 
>> --- Original Message ---
>> 
>> From: John Sessoms 
>> Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13
>> To: pdml@pdml.net
>> 
>> You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope",
>> justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part
>> of some cop hating group or something".
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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