Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Ooops, the url for the original is: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/man2.htm Sorry, I had man1 in the last post. Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FIRST CROP: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm ... Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of them better? The original capture is too target center for me and doesn't give me the sense of space/distance. The first crop is much better ... it provides that sense of distance and isolation that the title is reflecting. The 2nd and 3rd crops get too tight to provide the same feeling. The perspective in all of them is that of distance, not intimacy. The reason for moving close is to enhance that sense of intimacy. Godfrey
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/10/2005 12:31:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The original capture is too target center for me and doesn't give me the sense of space/distance. The first crop is much better ... it provides that sense of distance and isolation that the title is reflecting. The 2nd and 3rd crops get too tight to provide the same feeling. The perspective in all of them is that of distance, not intimacy. The reason for moving close is to enhance that sense of intimacy. Godfrey = Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide intimacy that street photography seems to require when you are trying to portray isolation? ;-) I almost labeled it isolation to begin with, then ended up with personal space because it fit better. His personal space (isolation) and me allowing him his personal space. Thanks for the feedback. Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: >FIRST CROP: >http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm > >The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one >takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does >not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But >your >browser back arrow will do that). > >Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of >them better? First crop by far for me. Sorry Marnie, I must have missed it before. It's a fine picture - I like it a lot. Well done. It shows that there are no rules in photography, just preferences. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: >Ooops, the url for the original is: >http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/man2.htm > >Sorry, I had man1 in the last post. First time I've seen that. I prefer crop 1 from previous post. Mono works well for me too. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/10/2005 1:01:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: First time I've seen that. I prefer crop 1 from previous post. Mono works well for me too. Cheers, Cotty == Thanks Cotty. According to what Godfrey said, though I may be proving nothing with this little exercise except for that the first one wasn't cropped well to begin with. Hehehehehehehehehe. Oh well, I'll still be interested in any reactions from others. Yup, re preferences. Agree totally. Marnie aka Doe ;-)
RE: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
I don't think street photography does require you to provide intimacy. If it requires anything, it is that you treat the subject appropriately, and this is true for all photography. There are several ways you can convey the feeling that someone is alone in a large space. Consider, for example, the common type of shot which shows someone alone in a big landscape, such as a mountain range. Often the person is standing isolated on a ridge, relatively small in the frame, while the rest of the frame is filled with the landscape, and no other people, which highlights the person's isolation. Their particular pose & body language helps to show whether they are lonely or noble or inspired or whatever. This type of shot is usually done with a long lens. There's no reason why you can't apply the same principles to somebody in a cityscape. Another approach to the same subject is to get very close to them and use a wide-angle lens. In this situation the person is very large relative to the frame, but the lens also sucks in the size of the landscape, showing their isolation. Again, there's no reason why you shouldn't use the same technique, depending on what you want to convey, and how confident you are about getting close to that person. -- Cheers, Bob > Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide > intimacy that street photography seems to require when you > are trying to portray isolation? ;-) I almost labeled it > isolation to begin with, then ended up with personal space > because it fit better. His personal space (isolation) and me > allowing him his personal space. >
RE: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
You can also use colours and composition to make a sense of isolation. Here's a non-perfect example: http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=195401 DagT > fra: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I don't think street photography does require you to provide intimacy. If it > requires anything, it is that you treat the subject appropriately, and this > is true for all photography. > > There are several ways you can convey the feeling that someone is alone in a > large space. Consider, for example, the common type of shot which shows > someone alone in a big landscape, such as a mountain range. Often the person > is standing isolated on a ridge, relatively small in the frame, while the > rest of the frame is filled with the landscape, and no other people, which > highlights the person's isolation. Their particular pose & body language > helps to show whether they are lonely or noble or inspired or whatever. This > type of shot is usually done with a long lens. There's no reason why you > can't apply the same principles to somebody in a cityscape. > > Another approach to the same subject is to get very close to them and use a > wide-angle lens. In this situation the person is very large relative to the > frame, but the lens also sucks in the size of the landscape, showing their > isolation. Again, there's no reason why you shouldn't use the same > technique, depending on what you want to convey, and how confident you are > about getting close to that person. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide > > intimacy that street photography seems to require when you > > are trying to portray isolation? ;-) I almost labeled it > > isolation to begin with, then ended up with personal space > > because it fit better. His personal space (isolation) and me > > allowing him his personal space. > > > >
RE: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Hi Marnie I do not like the cropped versions here. The original, while a bit busy in the background, remains the best shot for me because the surrounding area helps me to understand what happened. That gets completely lost in a tight crop. greetings Markus >>FIRST CROP: >>http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm >> >>The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on >>the first one >>takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the >>original does >>not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate >>loop. But your >>browser back arrow will do that). >> >>Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? >>Like any of >>them better? >> >>TIA, Marnie aka Doe :-) >>
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On Oct 10, 2005, at 3:59 AM, Cotty wrote: It shows that there are no rules in photography, just preferences. Mark!
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
I missed this shot earlier. I quite like it but wish I could see a bit more of the subject's face. The light is great, and the composition is very nice. The original crop is by far the best. Paul On Oct 10, 2005, at 6:48 AM, Markus Maurer wrote: Hi Marnie I do not like the cropped versions here. The original, while a bit busy in the background, remains the best shot for me because the surrounding area helps me to understand what happened. That gets completely lost in a tight crop. greetings Markus FIRST CROP: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But your browser back arrow will do that). Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of them better? TIA, Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/10/05, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed: > >On Oct 10, 2005, at 3:59 AM, Cotty wrote: > >> It shows that there are >> no rules in photography, just preferences. >> >> >Mark! LOL. You sure i said that? Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Coming out of lurk mode - I've not commented before, content to try to learn off other's comments. However...FWIW Crop 1 does it for me. You've eliminated the empty space between you and the subject and to the right of the subject which add nothing to the photo, while still holding onto the theme of personal space, i.e. letting the subject be alone in his environment. Crops 2 & 3 move the theme away from the *aloneness* of the subject within his environment to concentrate too much on the subject. Neither 2 or 3, to me, convey *personal space* while crop 1 does. -P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, Bob wants more meaningful discussion. :-) So please indulge me. I got curious and I am testing a thesis. Practically no one liked Personal Space but me. I think the wastebasket and the bottom should be cropped, but I liked it. http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/man1.htm Godfrey said (at the NorCal PDML meet) regarding "street photography" that one has to get in close (5-12) feet otherwise the photograph lacks intimacy. From what Juan and Shel have said (and the lenses they recommended, 24-55mm) they concur. I found when doing street photography, well, I can't. I have great difficulty penetrating someone else's personal space bubble. I can shoot people I know, sure, and I did all over the place. Shot PDMLers at lunch even if they didn't want me to. So I liked personal space, because I left the guy his space. And I didn't think the composition was that bad. Not great, but not that bad. I suspect, however, that it does not meet people's expectations regarding "street photography" and closeness (i.e. people found on the street). Therefore I have made three crops, each successively closer. (I thought it might be a bike besides the guy, but turns out it's a fence in the background. Bit distracting. Oh, well.) Of course it could just be a lousy photo. But I'd be real curious if anyone likes the crops better. And which crop do you like? If people do, it would tend to support the above thesis. Although I was not using 24-55mm; I was using a zoom. And I probably shot at 70-90mm or so. And I was about 15 feet away. I used the first technique Shel's listed to convert to B&W. http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/color2bw.html And the technique Boris showed me to sharpen after resizing to convert a RAW into a JPEG (I see artifacts so I am still not doing it right). http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/high-pass-sharpening.shtml FIRST CROP: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But your browser back arrow will do that). Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of them better? TIA, Marnie aka Doe :-)
RE: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Marnie, I don't know what it is, but I often find people ~want~ me to photograph them. It may be my carefree demeanor while walking about, my charming and disarming smile - who knows. People often "invite me in." Once in, it's easy to talk with them and photograph them. However, what I want to capture isn't necessarily the same things that Juan or Godfrey or you want to capture. I'm looking for some intimacy, closeness, a bit of a character study, something of a portrait ... for example: http://home.earthlink.net/~sbelinkoff/images/motherchild.html http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/nflguy2.html http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/puppet-woman.jpg However, for the most part I've been working close since i started photography. Only had a 50mm lens, then got a 35mm ... had no choice but to get close. When I got a 135mm lens I was disgusted with it. Everything was so far away. My next lens was a 20mm and that lens may have changed forever how I looked at the world. To this day I rarely use anything longer than an 85mm lens on film, and have never used anything longer than the 77mm on the digi - and that's mostly because it's such a great lens and I'm still a little excited about auto focus, although the 50mm and wider lenses are starting to see much more service now that I'm getting comfortable with using the MF lenses on the camera. The 50mm, 35mm, 30mm, and 28mm focal lengths are becoming more "normal" lenses, and the 24mm and 18mm are next in line for experimentation. However, there's no reason why you should do "street photography" if that's not what you enjoy doing. Photograph what you enjoy, and get good at ~that~ and forget about making photos that make you uncomfortable and that you don't enjoy. Unless you want to change your personality, and have a compelling reason to photograph in the concrete caverns, stay out in the countryside and photograph what gives you pleasure. Frankly, you don't have the temperament to be a good "street photographer." You're too tentative, too concerned about intruding on people, too unsure of your gear (as I remember it), and you've not the time to practice the needed skills. It's like me doing macro flower shots or photographing insect genitalia .. I don't have the interest or the skill, so why bother? Shel > [Original Message] > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Godfrey said (at the NorCal PDML meet) regarding "street photography" that > one has to get in close (5-12) feet otherwise the photograph lacks intimacy. > From what Juan and Shel have said (and the lenses they recommended, 24-55mm) they > concur. > > I found when doing street photography, well, I can't. I have great difficulty > penetrating someone else's personal space bubble. I can shoot people I know, > sure, and I did all over the place. Shot PDMLers at lunch even if they didn't > want me to. > > So I liked personal space, because I left the guy his space. And I didn't > think the composition was that bad. Not great, but not that bad. > > I suspect, however, that it does not meet people's expectations regarding > "street photography" and closeness (i.e. people found on the street). > > Therefore I have made three crops, each successively closer. (I thought it > might be a bike besides the guy, but turns out it's a fence in the background. > Bit distracting. Oh, well.) > > Of course it could just be a lousy photo. > > But I'd be real curious if anyone likes the crops better. And which crop do > you like? > > If people do, it would tend to support the above thesis. Although I was not > using 24-55mm; I was using a zoom. And I probably shot at 70-90mm or so. And I > was about 15 feet away. > > I used the first technique Shel's listed to convert to B&W. > http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/color2bw.html > > And the technique Boris showed me to sharpen after resizing to convert a RAW > into a JPEG (I see artifacts so I am still not doing it right). > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/high-pass-sharpening.shtml > > FIRST CROP: > http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm > > The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one > takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does > not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But your > browser back arrow will do that). > > Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of > them better? > > TIA, Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
I like the first crop the best - not quite so distant but still in keeping with your original idea. All in all, a pretty good idea. I'm sure I would not have thought of something like that. -- Best regards, Bruce Monday, October 10, 2005, 12:07:41 AM, you wrote: Eac> Okay, Bob wants more meaningful discussion. :-) So please indulge me. Eac> I got curious and I am testing a thesis. Eac> Practically no one liked Personal Space but me. I think the wastebasket and Eac> the bottom should be cropped, but I liked it. Eac> http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/man1.htm Eac> Godfrey said (at the NorCal PDML meet) regarding "street photography" that Eac> one has to get in close (5-12) feet otherwise the photograph lacks intimacy. Eac> From what Juan and Shel have said (and the lenses they recommended, 24-55mm) they Eac> concur. Eac> I found when doing street photography, well, I can't. I have great difficulty Eac> penetrating someone else's personal space bubble. I can shoot people I know, Eac> sure, and I did all over the place. Shot PDMLers at lunch even if they didn't Eac> want me to. Eac> So I liked personal space, because I left the guy his space. And I didn't Eac> think the composition was that bad. Not great, but not that bad. Eac> I suspect, however, that it does not meet people's expectations regarding Eac> "street photography" and closeness (i.e. people found on the street). Eac> Therefore I have made three crops, each successively closer. (I thought it Eac> might be a bike besides the guy, but turns out it's a fence in the background. Eac> Bit distracting. Oh, well.) Eac> Of course it could just be a lousy photo. Eac> But I'd be real curious if anyone likes the crops better. And which crop do Eac> you like? Eac> If people do, it would tend to support the above thesis. Although I was not Eac> using 24-55mm; I was using a zoom. And I probably shot at 70-90mm or so. And I Eac> was about 15 feet away. Eac> I used the first technique Shel's listed to convert to B&W. Eac> http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/color2bw.html Eac> And the technique Boris showed me to sharpen after resizing to convert a RAW Eac> into a JPEG (I see artifacts so I am still not doing it right). Eac> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/high-pass-sharpening.shtml Eac> FIRST CROP: Eac> http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm Eac> The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one Eac> takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does Eac> not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But your Eac> browser back arrow will do that). Eac> Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of Eac> them better? Eac> TIA, Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Absolutely, I like a feeling of intimacy in street photography, when I want to express moods of warmth and commonality, the closeness of urban streets. When I'm looking to express moods of distance and isolation, of scope and context, I step back and/or use longer focal lengths. Longer, in context of the DS, meaning 50-85mm. Much longer than that and I'm no longer in what I consider a street photography mode of seeing. Godfrey On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Bob W wrote: I don't think street photography does require you to provide intimacy. If it requires anything, it is that you treat the subject appropriately, and this is true for all photography. ... ... Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide intimacy that street photography seems to require when you are trying to portray isolation? ;-) I almost labeled it isolation to begin with, then ended up with personal space because it fit better. His personal space (isolation) and me allowing him his personal space. ...
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/10/2005 7:33:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://home.earthlink.net/~sbelinkoff/images/motherchild.html http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/nflguy2.html http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/puppet-woman.jpg However, there's no reason why you should do "street photography" if that's not what you enjoy doing. Photograph what you enjoy, and get good at ~that~ and forget about making photos that make you uncomfortable and that you don't enjoy. Unless you want to change your personality, and have a compelling reason to photograph in the concrete caverns, stay out in the countryside and photograph what gives you pleasure. Frankly, you don't have the temperament to be a good "street photographer." You're too tentative, too concerned about intruding on people, too unsure of your gear (as I remember it), and you've not the time to practice the needed skills. It's like me doing macro flower shots or photographing insect genitalia .. I don't have the interest or the skill, so why bother? Shel === All nice shots, I especially like the first and last. Somehow, Shel, I think there is something different from being invited in and not being invited in. But I am trying not to make a negative value judgment about what anyone else does. I am not nearly as tentative as you see me. I wouldn't be on a list that is 99.50% men and showing my pictures on that list if I was. ;-) Or posting as many messages as I often do. Am I often unsure how others will receive my work? Sure. But I still show it and I can survive the slings and arrows of criticism. I used to sit in art critiques in painting classes. Yeah, I might get upset some times if someone doesn't like something of mine, but the upset passes fairly quickly. I really don't think everyone likes everything, or that I will please everyone. And the more "arty" I get with something the more I expect not to please other people. And I am not sure if I am really, really "arty" that I WANT to please a lot of other people. ;-) Am I concerned with other people's feelings now and then? Sure. I am female, it comes with the territory. I don't mind if I am not cut out for street photography, I was just trying to see if the closer is better premise worked or had limits or anything. A rather nonscientific test because the photo may not have been the best for that. So it may not prove anything. But I was curious. I have my own conclusions about things, street photography and what I like to shoot and why. Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/10/2005 3:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can also use colours and composition to make a sense of isolation. Here's a non-perfect example: http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=195401 DagT == Interesting, Dag. I like it. However, I would not see her as isolated, that is not the adjective that immediately springs to mind. I would tend to see her as "special," that is what the picture conveys to me. Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
I like this one a bit better, I didn't comment before because I had little constructive to say. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ooops, the url for the original is: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/man2.htm Sorry, I had man1 in the last post. Marnie aka Doe -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: >I don't mind if I am not cut out for street photography, I was just trying to >see if the closer is better premise worked or had limits or anything. A >rather nonscientific test because the photo may not have been the best >for that. So >it may not prove anything. But I was curious. > >I have my own conclusions about things, street photography and what I like to >shoot and why. Er, your 'street photography' is fine. Crop 1 is a good shot and stands up well to anything I've ever seen. It's not any better or any worse than a photograph of a person (obviously) at close proximity to the camera. It is irrelevant IMO where the subject was in relation to the camera when the exposure happened. The finished image is all that matters to me. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/10/2005 10:12:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er, your 'street photography' is fine. Crop 1 is a good shot and stands up well to anything I've ever seen. It's not any better or any worse than a photograph of a person (obviously) at close proximity to the camera. It is irrelevant IMO where the subject was in relation to the camera when the exposure happened. The finished image is all that matters to me. Cheers, Cotty = Thanks Cotty. I think to me too. And thanks to Paul, ohrbit, Bob, -P, Peter and all the others who commented. I think I learned something from the experience. Just not exactly sure what yet. :-) Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
Hi! But I'd be real curious if anyone likes the crops better. And which crop do you like? FIRST CROP: http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm The forward arrows take you to the next crops.The back arrow on the first one takes you to the original (however, the forward arrow on the original does not return to the first crop, since the crops are in a separate loop. But your browser back arrow will do that). Anyone have a stronger emotional reaction to any of the crops? Like any of them better? I think that the first crop is the best of the three. The second one is too tight and the third one seems to be simply a fragment really. Also the third one seems to be too small a crop so that the limits of your digital camera or scanned negative start to show. Anyway, the first crop is a sensible work. It is all full of reflections. And the pose in which the guy is sitting is that of being self absorbed in some thought. So now it all comes together nicely to me. It is about reflections of (city) life. Technically the presentation is perfect. There is nothing I would think I would add here. This is a finished piece. As for getting close to your subject. I think it is a matter of practice and style. The fact that some PDML's more prominent people shooters ;-) (I mean Godfrey, Shel, and Frank (in no particular order, so that no one gets offended ;-) ) ) get closer to their subjects does not mean that that's *the only* way to do it. I've seen people working with 70-300 zoom quite extended (in film though, no crop factor) and getting good images too. For example, the longer lens with good bokeh allows you to get the third dimension - that of depth. It may be worth it. I think that whatever subject one is working with, one should know the tools at hand. I think I would agree with what Bob W said: > I don't think street photography does require you to provide intimacy. > If it requires anything, it is that you treat the subject > appropriately, and this is true for all photography. So, Marnie, let's just keep practicing. I know I will ;-). Good stuff and very good discussion. Boris
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/12/2005 5:58:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that the first crop is the best of the three. The second one is too tight and the third one seems to be simply a fragment really. Also the third one seems to be too small a crop so that the limits of your digital camera or scanned negative start to show. Anyway, the first crop is a sensible work. It is all full of reflections. And the pose in which the guy is sitting is that of being self absorbed in some thought. So now it all comes together nicely to me. It is about reflections of (city) life. Technically the presentation is perfect. There is nothing I would think I would add here. This is a finished piece. As for getting close to your subject. I think it is a matter of practice and style. The fact that some PDML's more prominent people shooters ;-) (I mean Godfrey, Shel, and Frank (in no particular order, so that no one gets offended ;-) ) ) get closer to their subjects does not mean that that's *the only* way to do it. I've seen people working with 70-300 zoom quite extended (in film though, no crop factor) and getting good images too. For example, the longer lens with good bokeh allows you to get the third dimension - that of depth. It may be worth it. I think that whatever subject one is working with, one should know the tools at hand. I think I would agree with what Bob W said: > I don't think street photography does require you to provide intimacy. > If it requires anything, it is that you treat the subject > appropriately, and this is true for all photography. So, Marnie, let's just keep practicing. I know I will ;-). Good stuff and very good discussion. Boris = Thanks for your comments, Boris. Yes I do like that the reflections show bett er in the first crop. So I will probably have two versions of it. Well, as for taking pictures of people on the street in the future, not sure. I did notice I shot mainly people's backs. The interesting thing is some people liked some of those back shots. Now, shooting people's backs, that I CAN do. Hehehehe. Thanks for your thoughts. Marnie aka Doe :-)
RE: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
I think shooting somebody in the back is a cowardly act. I prefer going close, and then stab them down ;-) Seriously, a good debate. Perhaps the reason is that I have stayed out of it ;-) Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12. oktober 2005 16:54 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops) > > In a message dated 10/12/2005 5:58:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think that the first crop is the best of the three. The second one is > too tight and the third one seems to be simply a fragment really. Also > the third one seems to be too small a crop so that the limits of your > digital camera or scanned negative start to show. > > Anyway, the first crop is a sensible work. It is all full of > reflections. And the pose in which the guy is sitting is that of being > self absorbed in some thought. So now it all comes together nicely to > me. It is about reflections of (city) life. > > Technically the presentation is perfect. There is nothing I would think > I would add here. This is a finished piece. > > As for getting close to your subject. I think it is a matter of practice > and style. The fact that some PDML's more prominent people shooters ;-) > (I mean Godfrey, Shel, and Frank (in no particular order, so that no one > gets offended ;-) ) ) get closer to their subjects does not mean that > that's *the only* way to do it. > > I've seen people working with 70-300 zoom quite extended (in film > though, no crop factor) and getting good images too. For example, the > longer lens with good bokeh allows you to get the third dimension - that > of depth. It may be worth it. > > I think that whatever subject one is working with, one should know the > tools at hand. I think I would agree with what Bob W said: > > > I don't think street photography does require you to provide > intimacy. > If it requires anything, it is that you treat the subject > > appropriately, and this is true for all photography. > > So, Marnie, let's just keep practicing. I know I will ;-). > > Good stuff and very good discussion. > > Boris > = > Thanks for your comments, Boris. Yes I do like that the reflections show > bett > er in the first crop. So I will probably have two versions of it. > > Well, as for taking pictures of people on the street in the future, not > sure. > I did notice I shot mainly people's backs. The interesting thing is some > people liked some of those back shots. Now, shooting people's backs, that > I CAN > do. Hehehehe. > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Marnie aka Doe :-) >
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide intimacy that street > photography seems to require when you are trying to portray isolation? ;-) "street photography" doesn't "require" anything, other than that it be (more or less) taken on the street. sometimes it's intimate: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3125114&size=lg sometimes it's not: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3739186&size=lg -frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 12/10/05, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: >sometimes it's intimate: > >http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3125114&size=lg Cropped rubbish. > >sometimes it's not: > >http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3739186&size=lg Blurry cropped rubbish. --> ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:35:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 10/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. It's a contrast and a dilemma. How do you provide intimacy that street > photography seems to require when you are trying to portray isolation? ;-) "street photography" doesn't "require" anything, other than that it be (more or less) taken on the street. sometimes it's intimate: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3125114&size=lg sometimes it's not: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3739186&size=lg -frank === That's what I would think, frank. I remember the train one, thought it was one of your best. Conversely, I thought the Chinatown was one of your not bests. ;-) Actually, not to be inflammatory or anything, but I don't see much connection between intimacy and shooting people one doesn't know (in the street or elsewhere). Appearances of intimacy in those situations would be illusionary to my way of thinking. Unless one talks to them and gets to know them a bit or something. That doesn't mean one can't be closer or more far away or show more touching moments between other people or and more isolated moments of individuals. But then one could argue that anytime one takes a picture, putting a camera between oneself and "what is out there," one is actually removing one's self one step from the experience. Putting up a mirror between one's self and the world. Or a piece of glass. Observer and observed. Interesting stuff to think about. Thanks for looking, Marnie aka Doe
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > FIRST CROP: > http://members.aol.com/eactivist/PAWS/pages/space1.htm > > of the new crops I like this best, I suggested a less drastic one... I like looking at the shot without the title because visually I think it is more interesting structurally... I'd like to see more of the shadows that were in the original... just clipping out about the bottom, um 6th ? of the photo...the lightest part in the foreground. hope this is helpful but probably isn't :) ann
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/12/05, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/10/05, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >sometimes it's intimate: > > > >http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3125114&size=lg > > Cropped rubbish. > > > > >sometimes it's not: > > > >http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3739186&size=lg > > Blurry cropped rubbish. > HEY!! i take offense to that. the second one's not cropped. -frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On 10/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, not to be inflammatory or anything, but I don't see much connection > between intimacy and shooting people one doesn't know (in the street or > elsewhere). Appearances of intimacy in those situations would be illusionary > to my > way of thinking. can't type enough to properly discuss, but i often feel great intimacy with certain of my subjects, even ones that i didn't interact with at all, except to photograph in a fleeting moment. don't know why, but i do. maybe it's illusory, but it's there none-the-less... -frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
On Oct 12, 2005, at 7:27 PM, frank theriault wrote: On 10/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, not to be inflammatory or anything, but I don't see much connection between intimacy and shooting people one doesn't know (in the street or elsewhere). Appearances of intimacy in those situations would be illusionary to my way of thinking. can't type enough to properly discuss, but i often feel great intimacy with certain of my subjects, even ones that i didn't interact with at all, except to photograph in a fleeting moment. don't know why, but i do. maybe it's illusory, but it's there none-the-less... Art is illusion and creation. Photography is art. It's also many other things. We can drop into the long running war between photography and art now. ;-) Godfrey
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/12/2005 7:17:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd like to see more of the shadows that were in the original... just clipping out about the bottom, um 6th ? of the photo...the lightest part in the foreground. hope this is helpful but probably isn't :) ann === No, it is. I am probably going to do two version, the first crop B&W and pretty much what you said. But I haven't played with it yet. I want to lose the waste container on the right and part of the bottom. I keep portions to standard sizes, like 5X7, so I'll have to play with it and see how much bottom I can lose without losing vertical. And it doesn't really need a title. Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/12/2005 7:28:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: can't type enough to properly discuss, but i often feel great intimacy with certain of my subjects, even ones that i didn't interact with at all, except to photograph in a fleeting moment. don't know why, but i do. maybe it's illusory, but it's there none-the-less... -frank Yeah. Connectedness. It's a tricky thing. Maybe we are really photographing some aspect of ourselves when we photograph others. Mirror/glass. Forget my subsequent post. Don't mean to make you type. :-) Just been thinking about things and wondering. Re Gallery. I figured it out. I am now finally comfortable enough with the camera that I am not thinking about it every time I shoot. I was playing. I didn't do shallow DOF which might slow me down nor exposure compensation which might also. And those are two areas I still have more to learn about. But I was playing. Snap, snap, snap. The cable car shot was decided on and taken in about 20 seconds. Not frank (yeah, hehehe) was about the same, a tad slower, maybe a minute max, but probably less. Ditto with Ride 'em Cowboy and Whatizit, about 30-60 seconds. Real quick. From decision to positioning to taking. Whatizit, no, maybe a minute and a half or two. I did walk up toward it. Frankly I never thought I'd reach this point. Comfortable with the camera. I still have areas to learn regarding the camera itself (like the above), but it feels good to just get to this point. Although if I had worked more, more shots might be a lot better. But that day I wasn't in the frame of mind to work. So it's nice to know I can play with the camera and not totally hoover. Later, Marnie ;-)
Re: PESO - Personal Space Revisited/Closeness (3 Crops)
In a message dated 10/12/2005 7:41:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We can drop into the long running war between photography and art now. ;-) Godfrey == No thanks. Marnie :-)
