Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Hi, oh, that's yet another story :) But even considering time factor, the "yield" (let's call it "short term yield" vs. "long time yield" which means the photos survived over years) matters, not the absolute quantity of images taken. BR, Margus Mark Roberts wrote: This is true, but the value of "that I like enough to be published" changes over time as you get better and your standards go up. I have the same approximate "yield" that I did 10 years ago, but a lot of the stuff that I throw away now (because it just doesn't make the grade) would have been kept (enthusiastically!) back then. It's all relative :)
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Wendy said: > I did something I swore I'd never do myself and had > scorned others as talentless and without skill for > doing so. I put the camera into continuous drive and > AF servo mode and went machine gunning. I almost feel > embarrassed to own up to it :-S > But I'm happy to say I got some decent shots out of > it, some of which I would have been practicing for the > next hundred years to get using the one-shot, prefocus > method I normally use. > > Wendy > I tried the AF-C and high motor drive at a few horse shows,early in my digital life. Only 2 aspects of the sport suit this kind of shooting. The dressage and the reining or barrel racing type of events,were the movement is to quick to determine when to shoot in the finder. I use the prefocus on the jump in question method for jumping shots and other than some with a bit of camera shake are all pretty much in foucus. There are a few that shoot events along with me,that "machine gun" and i truley beleive they miss 90% of good shots as they view the lcd and delete unwanted shots(chimping i think they call it right.) Most of the machine gun shots they go for is rear end and after jump shots which i know no one wants. There is a time and place for this method,just have to know when i suppose. As for personal photography with digital,i attack it as i would a film camera.Think out the shot and go fo rthe best possible shot. However with instant review,extra shots are made if exposures are not quite right.But not to many.LOL FWIW I have had the D now for 10 days and have no keepers. I'm still in test mode at 55 shots.lol Have a great Christmas everyone. Dave Brooks
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Cotty wrote: On 23/12/04, wendy beard, discombobulated, unleashed: I did something I swore I'd never do myself and had scorned others as talentless and without skill for doing so. I put the camera into continuous drive and AF servo mode and went machine gunning. I almost feel embarrassed to own up to it :-S But Wendy, I only ever shoot in that mode - yet I have had my latest digital incarnation since October and shot only 1629 images. AI Servo and continuous drive mode are similar to a film camera for me. I tried shooting in single shot mode once only, and instantly hated it. The camera makes you *wait* until a shot's in focus? No way. I have AF set up thus: a half press on the shutter button starts AE (usually aperture priority), and if I want AF, then I use my thumb on a button on the back. Usually I focus manually. Just because it's this newfangled digital, doesn't mean I have to change my shooting habits! To me it's just a big bulky MX. Don't forget ugly... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- I can understand why mankind hasn't given up war. During a war you get to drive tanks through the sides of buildings and shoot foreigners - two things that are usually frowned on during peacetime. --P.J. O'Rourke
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
On 23/12/04, wendy beard, discombobulated, unleashed: >At 06:14 PM 23/12/2004, you wrote: >>But Wendy, I only ever shoot in that mode - yet I have had my latest >>digital incarnation since October and shot only 1629 images. AI Servo >>and continuous drive mode are similar to a film camera for me. I tried >>shooting in single shot mode once only, and instantly hated it. The >>camera makes you *wait* until a shot's in focus? No way. > >Ah, but you have to remember what I'm shooting. Dog agility. My technique >is just the same as if I was using an MX :-) >I know the course, so I know the dog's path. I pre-focus on an obstacle and >wait. Dog takes the obstacle and, bam, I pick him off. (using Fred's >sniper analogy ;-) ). I have a very high rate of keepers using this method. >I'm afraid my disdain for the machine-gun method comes from seeing others >in the same field switching to continuous and blindly shooting away in the >hope that they capture something worth selling. Understood. So let me get this right - you are using AI servo (or AI focus) along with single shot? So that means that you press the shutter release and one shot is taken for as long as the shutter is pressed, until your finger lifts off, and is ready to take another shot? Hmm. I do exactly the same thing in 'continuous', except that I press the shutter once for one shot, and I have the option to hold down for several shots in rapid succession. But as you say, the pre-focussing method is best used for dog agility etc. I wish I could come along to one of your events and let you have a go with predictive focussing ;-) Have a merry Christmas Wendy! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
At 06:14 PM 23/12/2004, you wrote: But Wendy, I only ever shoot in that mode - yet I have had my latest digital incarnation since October and shot only 1629 images. AI Servo and continuous drive mode are similar to a film camera for me. I tried shooting in single shot mode once only, and instantly hated it. The camera makes you *wait* until a shot's in focus? No way. Ah, but you have to remember what I'm shooting. Dog agility. My technique is just the same as if I was using an MX :-) I know the course, so I know the dog's path. I pre-focus on an obstacle and wait. Dog takes the obstacle and, bam, I pick him off. (using Fred's sniper analogy ;-) ). I have a very high rate of keepers using this method. I'm afraid my disdain for the machine-gun method comes from seeing others in the same field switching to continuous and blindly shooting away in the hope that they capture something worth selling. True story: I was competing with Tanja in the AAC National Championships in Montreal this August. The photographer who had the contract to cover the event had an assistant who just didn't have a clue about dog agility. There were 22 shots made of my dog. Out of those only one was in focus and moving towards the camera. More than half were butt-shots (the dog's not mine - thank goodness!) Anyway, my latest venture is flyball. It was while taking snaps at a practice session I learned that the technique I have used for yonks just won't work in flyball. Well, almost. Box-turn shots are easy to get, but the running shots are something else! I suppose what I'm saying is that I dismissed a very useful technique because of what I'd seen produced by others without trying it for myself. Too set in my ways ;-) Wendy Wendy Beard, Ottawa, Canada http://www.beard-redfern.com
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
On 23/12/04, wendy beard, discombobulated, unleashed: >I did something I swore I'd never do myself and had >scorned others as talentless and without skill for >doing so. I put the camera into continuous drive and >AF servo mode and went machine gunning. I almost feel >embarrassed to own up to it :-S But Wendy, I only ever shoot in that mode - yet I have had my latest digital incarnation since October and shot only 1629 images. AI Servo and continuous drive mode are similar to a film camera for me. I tried shooting in single shot mode once only, and instantly hated it. The camera makes you *wait* until a shot's in focus? No way. I have AF set up thus: a half press on the shutter button starts AE (usually aperture priority), and if I want AF, then I use my thumb on a button on the back. Usually I focus manually. Just because it's this newfangled digital, doesn't mean I have to change my shooting habits! To me it's just a big bulky MX. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Margus Männik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >how many of those 1000 could be published or, at least, printed in >8"x10" and hanged to your room wall? >For example I shoot every month at least one new digital camera product >pictures for our local magazine. Quite often it takes more than 50 >images to get 4-6 pictures that I like enough to be published. The same >happens in nature - where I would adjust everything carefully to get >couple of frames in HQ slide, I shoot tens of images with digital >instead. The yield remains approximately the same... This is true, but the value of "that I like enough to be published" changes over time as you get better and your standards go up. I have the same approximate "yield" that I did 10 years ago, but a lot of the stuff that I throw away now (because it just doesn't make the grade) would have been kept (enthusiastically!) back then. It's all relative :) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Hi, how many of those 1000 could be published or, at least, printed in 8"x10" and hanged to your room wall? For example I shoot every month at least one new digital camera product pictures for our local magazine. Quite often it takes more than 50 images to get 4-6 pictures that I like enough to be published. The same happens in nature - where I would adjust everything carefully to get couple of frames in HQ slide, I shoot tens of images with digital instead. The yield remains approximately the same... BR, Margus Fred Widall wrote: My *ist-DS arrived 3 weeks ago today and I'm amazed to see that I've shot 1000 images in that period. The vast majority have been test shots and discarded, but that's an awful lot of shots by my standards - though I realise that for some of you that's not a very large total. With my old 35mm (and even more so with my medium format) gear I tended to be quite miserly with my shots, taking my time to try and ensure good exposure and composition in one attempt. I'd average about one roll a week, unless on vacation or for some special occasion. Now I'm finding that I fire off a lot of shots in the hope, and expectation, that I'll get a 'good' image which I can tweak in Photoshop if need be. I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, rather than the technology. Anyone else finding the same thing ??? -- Fred Widall, Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.ist.uwaterloo.ca/~fwwidall --
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
- Original Message - From: "Tom C" Subject: Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! You slay me... Good thing we don't do death row up here... William Robb
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
--- Fred Widall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. > > I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the > photography, > rather than the technology. > > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? > I did something I swore I'd never do myself and had scorned others as talentless and without skill for doing so. I put the camera into continuous drive and AF servo mode and went machine gunning. I almost feel embarrassed to own up to it :-S But I'm happy to say I got some decent shots out of it, some of which I would have been practicing for the next hundred years to get using the one-shot, prefocus method I normally use. Wendy
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
You slay me... Tom C. From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: Subject: Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:15:35 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Tom C" Subject: Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! By that logic, people on death-row are smarter than us... but I tend to agree. It seems easier to see what we've done wrong than what we've done right. No, by that logic, people on death row have learned from their mistake.. William Robb
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
During my last visit to Denali National Park I shot around 1500 digital images (equivalent to 42 rolls) in 11 days, slightly more than I've taken with film in the past. My number of keepers seems to be up significantly tho. Some of this I'm sure is due to the immediate feedback afforded by the digital & some of it was due to the phenominal animal appearances we were afforded. I also shot 20 rolls of film on this trip & it appears I have a higher than normal keeper rate with film also, I believe in part, again, due to the immediate feedback of the digital which I used to influence the film camera settings & composition. -Original Message- From: Jostein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! Quoting Fred Widall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. > > I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, > rather than the technology. > > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? Not sure. Since late october last year my *istD has done about 4000 exposures. That's about 70 shots per week...:-) This year's output is higher than ever. I used to shoot about 100 films per year, out of which about 60-70% was 645 format with 15 exposures per roll. That is about 2000-2500 exposures per year. However, I take most of my shots on dedicated photo trips. This year has seen more trips than ever (much thanks to PDML members), and that may well account for the increase in number of exposures. What's more interesting is that the percentage of keepers has come up too. There may be a lot of reasons for that, but I think the most important is the instant review. Over the first half year I did a lot of chimping, and I think that's a really good way of speeding up learning. Now I feel I know what to expect from the camera, and the rear display is turned off all the time. Another good thing about digital is the total control of the image from recording to presentation. I think that inspires learning too. Jostein This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Fred W wrote >> I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, rather than the technology. Hi Fred: when I first got the ist D the best subjects I could find were my daughter's synchronized Skating team. I have photographed them for many years with fast print film but the number of shots I needed to take just to get one good one drove my wife crazy when the bills for the prints came in. The digital really allowed me to go crazy. I was finally able to put the camera on continuous autofocus and snap away. It still takes a lot of shots to get one good one but at least they're free. The problem, of course, comes when you have to edit them. I spend a fair bit of time in front of the computer One of the other real benefits is that I am now using more of my large collection of lenses. When I go to a practise or a competition, I try to take different lenses each time to try them out... So far my favourites are the old 200f2.5 and Tokina ATX 28-70. On the weekend I used my 85 F2 for most of the team's Christmas Party pics and I was very happy with the results Vic
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
- Original Message - From: "Tom C" Subject: Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! By that logic, people on death-row are smarter than us... but I tend to agree. It seems easier to see what we've done wrong than what we've done right. No, by that logic, people on death row have learned from their mistake.. William Robb
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Quoting Fred Widall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. > > I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, > rather than the technology. > > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? Not sure. Since late october last year my *istD has done about 4000 exposures. That's about 70 shots per week...:-) This year's output is higher than ever. I used to shoot about 100 films per year, out of which about 60-70% was 645 format with 15 exposures per roll. That is about 2000-2500 exposures per year. However, I take most of my shots on dedicated photo trips. This year has seen more trips than ever (much thanks to PDML members), and that may well account for the increase in number of exposures. What's more interesting is that the percentage of keepers has come up too. There may be a lot of reasons for that, but I think the most important is the instant review. Over the first half year I did a lot of chimping, and I think that's a really good way of speeding up learning. Now I feel I know what to expect from the camera, and the rear display is turned off all the time. Another good thing about digital is the total control of the image from recording to presentation. I think that inspires learning too. Jostein This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
pcn> at this time. Practice can't necessarily make a photographer pcn> great, but it will allow a photographer to optimize his or her pcn> skills within the limits of his or her capabilities. No pcn> photographer should ever think that he's shooting too much. But pcn> he should always ask himself if he's thinking enough. pcn> Paul Another gem :) wrt one's capabilities - if one is taking photography seriously, he/she should be interested in advancing his vision as well - as you say "thinking". Peer review is very important, as well as review from somebody with much more experience and insight - a photography guru. I am self-learned, but I had the luck to have some good photographers around me, from several genres, but I know I have to advance a lot more - you can't always tell your own limits. That's what a good photography school is good for, not only the contacts you get (which are of course important, especially in a very small market like the Czech republic is). Good light! fra
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
pcn> within two years I was selling a lot of work to magazines. Shoot pcn> as much as you can, but think about every exposure. Photography pcn> is like any other pursuit: The more you practice, the better you pcn> get. Very good advice! Thanks. Good light! fra
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
On Wednesday 22 December 2004 20:46, Fred Widall wrote: > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? I've ripped through 1,200 images in two weeks, so there. :-P Seriously though. My only justification is that most of those have come in 'action' situations under very difficult light. The digital has allowed me to open up and fire away in the hopes that something decent will end up in my very narrow plane of focus. My other photographic faculties, I guess, are the same as they ever were. What's changing is the way I compose--having a 50mm stuck onto mine more or less permanently is making me think "short tele" all the time, and causing me to take a lot more tight headshots than I used to. I'm going to have to restore sanity and get a 35mm f/2 lens soon. The other thing is that the kitzoom has awakened in me a desire for a fairly wide-angle lens...something I hadn't even bothered with before. Time to start saving for a 20mm f/2.8 A, or a Flektogon 20. -Luigi
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
By that logic, people on death-row are smarter than us... but I tend to agree. It seems easier to see what we've done wrong than what we've done right. So people, start looking more at what you've done right than what you've done wrong... AND keep doing right! (I inspire myself sometimes). Tom C. I think we learn more from the failures than we do from the keepers. William Robb
RE: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
You're welcome, Markus. It's a very dramatic photo. Practice is critical. I'm quite certain that I'll never be a great photographer or even a very good one. I don't think I have a truly unique vision and may never develop one. But shooting lots of film has improved my work considerably, and I'm probably as good as my own innate abilities and experience allow at this time. Practice can't necessarily make a photographer great, but it will allow a photographer to optimize his or her skills within the limits of his or her capabilities. No photographer should ever think that he's shooting too much. But he should always ask himself if he's thinking enough. Paul > Looks like a real and important friendship and it surely helped develop your > skills up to the level you show us today with PAW/PESO. > > Thanks for the comments on the clay figure Paul. > merry Christmas > Markus > > > >If you promise > >>to shoot a roll of film every day, I'll sell you the film at my > >>cost." He did, and I did. > >> > >
RE: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
Looks like a real and important friendship and it surely helped develop your skills up to the level you show us today with PAW/PESO. Thanks for the comments on the clay figure Paul. merry Christmas Markus >If you promise >>to shoot a roll of film every day, I'll sell you the film at my >>cost." He did, and I did. >>
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
On 23 Dec 2004 at 1:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I shoot more with digital than I did with film. At first, I was probably > somewhat more careless, but I think the instant feedback has made me more > thoughtful over time. I'm now getting a much higher number of keepers per day > than I did with film and a percentage of keepers that is at least equal to > film > and probably slightly better. For example, in my first year of shooting > stock, > I used film and placed 40 images on the site. In the next ten months of > shooting > stock, I used the *istD and placed 180 images on the site. Paul I shoot a lot more too, but over the year my percentage of keepers has become much higher as I now really know what the camera can do and how the metering behaves. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
- Original Message - From: "Fred Widall" Subject: 1000 images in 3 weeks !! I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, rather than the technology. Anyone else finding the same thing ??? Yup. The common wisdom is to shoot more, as practice makes perfect. I think digital allows us to carry that to a rather illogical extreme. Balance excessive shooting against the need to look at your work; analyze why some images are keepers and others fail. I think we learn more from the failures than we do from the keepers. William Robb
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
By the way, as a footnote to this topic, I might add that when I first started shooting film in earnest some 30 years ago, I learned an important lesson about volume and skill development. I was patronizing an old camera store in Chicago at the time. It was on 35th and Halsted near Comiskey Park. It was called Malelos Camera and must have been around since at least the thirties. I had taken up photography seriously just that summer, shooting maybe a roll per week. and the guy who owned the store became somewhat of a friend. One day, he pulled me aside and said, "Look, if you want to become even a halfway decent commercial photographer, you have to shoot a lot more film. If you promise to shoot a roll of film every day, I'll sell you the film at my cost." He did, and I did. So I was firing off about 1000 frames a month. He also helped me out with a lot of darkroom equipment at cost or less and discounted my color processing significantly. I shot a roll every day for at least! the next five years. My work improved significantly, and within two years I was selling a lot of work to magazines. Shoot as much as you can, but think about every exposure. Photography is like any other pursuit: The more you practice, the better you get. > My *ist-DS arrived 3 weeks ago today and I'm amazed to see that > I've shot 1000 images in that period. > > The vast majority have been test shots and discarded, but that's > an awful lot of shots by my standards - though I realise that for some of > you that's not a very large total. > > With my old 35mm (and even more so with my medium format) gear I > tended to be quite miserly with my shots, taking my time to try and > ensure good exposure and composition in one attempt. I'd average > about one roll a week, unless on vacation or for some special occasion. > > Now I'm finding that I fire off a lot of shots in the hope, and > expectation, that I'll get a 'good' image which I can tweak > in Photoshop if need be. > > I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. > > I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, > rather than the technology. > > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? > > -- > Fred Widall, > Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > URL: http://www.ist.uwaterloo.ca/~fwwidall > -- >
Re: 1000 images in 3 weeks !!
I shoot more with digital than I did with film. At first, I was probably somewhat more careless, but I think the instant feedback has made me more thoughtful over time. I'm now getting a much higher number of keepers per day than I did with film and a percentage of keepers that is at least equal to film and probably slightly better. For example, in my first year of shooting stock, I used film and placed 40 images on the site. In the next ten months of shooting stock, I used the *istD and placed 180 images on the site. Paul > My *ist-DS arrived 3 weeks ago today and I'm amazed to see that > I've shot 1000 images in that period. > > The vast majority have been test shots and discarded, but that's > an awful lot of shots by my standards - though I realise that for some of > you that's not a very large total. > > With my old 35mm (and even more so with my medium format) gear I > tended to be quite miserly with my shots, taking my time to try and > ensure good exposure and composition in one attempt. I'd average > about one roll a week, unless on vacation or for some special occasion. > > Now I'm finding that I fire off a lot of shots in the hope, and > expectation, that I'll get a 'good' image which I can tweak > in Photoshop if need be. > > I've changed from a sniper to a machine gunner.. > > I think I need to slow down and concentrate on the photography, > rather than the technology. > > Anyone else finding the same thing ??? > > -- > Fred Widall, > Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > URL: http://www.ist.uwaterloo.ca/~fwwidall > -- >
