Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
My G*d John, you're such a cave man! Have you got a 'Flintstones' lunchbox too. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:56 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Boris Liberman >> >> On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> >>> We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't >>> work. >> >> >> It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. > > > Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression & > Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. > > The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that "Separate but > Equal" was in no way ever going to be "equal", so it was no longer gonna' be > allowed to be "separate" either. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Boris Liberman >> >> On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> >>> We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't >>> work. >> >> >> It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. > > > Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression & > Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. > > The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that "Separate but > Equal" was in no way ever going to be "equal", so it was no longer gonna' be > allowed to be "separate" either. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Believe it or not, some progress is possible, even here in New Jersey. The problem is entrenched power in the local school boards and the unions. We spend vast amounts of money on the public education system; we need to demand better results. Dan M Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: > Daniel, all-public schooling is not reducing to LCD. It is if you don't > invest and your state (as in country, not as one of 50 United State) does > not fully backs the educational system by funds, equipment, etc. This is > huge investment with very slow return - you'll see returns like I said - in > order 20 years after you invested... Hence I don't see anyone who may be in > position to initiate such a change/investment do so. Not in current > political climate of modern western countries... > > On 4/11/2013 7:16 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >> >> I don' understand your comment or how it relates to anything I said. >> Dan Matyola >> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Boris Liberman >> wrote: >>> >>> Daniel, consider this - if your country invests 1 trln (yep, trillion) >>> dollars in educational system this year, they will see the outcome in, >>> may >>> be like 20 years - 12 years of school, 3-4 years - first degree, 4-6 >>> years - >>> second and/or third degree... So this kind of investment is extremely >>> risky >>> by modern measure. Further, a politician (or a group of them) responsible >>> for this act are very unlikely to be mentioned in the Great Books of >>> History... So, instead they do cheap populism and "no child left behind" >>> stuff... The slippery slope will get progressively more slippery... >>> >>> On 4/10/2013 8:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: " If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model." How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system "work"?> Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> >> >> >> This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals >> and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, >> in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how >> they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to >> compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by >> the government isn't going to happen. That's history. > > > > Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a > school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model > (with, > of course, some caveats): > > > > http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ > > You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and > charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't > take > the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental > disabilities). > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 > http://rule6.info/ > <*> <*> <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
It still works well in the wealthy suburbs. That's not the point. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Boris Liberman >> >> On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> >>> We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't >>> work. >> >> >> It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. > > > Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression & > Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. > > The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that "Separate but > Equal" was in no way ever going to be "equal", so it was no longer gonna' be > allowed to be "separate" either. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
No, I'm blaming the right wing war against public education that sprang up to resist the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education ruling for declining school performance. From: David Parsons Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression & Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that "Separate but Equal" was in no way ever going to be "equal", so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be "separate" either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Everyone wants to blame someone, and everyone blames those they disagree with politically. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 6:24 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > No, I'm blaming the right wing war against public education that sprang up > to resist the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education ruling for > declining school performance. > > From: David Parsons >> >> Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? >> >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > > We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't > work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. >>> >>> >>> >>> Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression & >>> Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. >>> >>> The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that "Separate but >>> Equal" was in no way ever going to be "equal", so it was no longer gonna' >>> be >>> allowed to be "separate" either. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 12 Apr 2013, at 01:16, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: > Everyone wants to blame someone, and everyone blames those they > disagree with politically. >> I blame the scapegoats [1] Bob [1] joke shamelessly stolen from John O'Farrel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
The educational side of this thread has been most interesting. I thought the educational system in SA was very bad but it seems the problems are universal. We have private schools funded by the parents (no Govt. assistance) which have the best facilities and teachers. Costs are very high but results are outstanding. Then we have the Model C schools (the Govt. schools in the former "white" areas) which are funded partially by parents & partially by Govt. The standards are still pretty good but discipline is becoming a problem. Lastly we have the so called township & farm schools which are totally (but inadequately) funded by the Govt. The teachers are unionized, discipline is non-existent & performance is terrible. There seems to be no political will to redress the situation apart from tampering with syllabi & lowering standards to keep the pass rate up. Nevertheless, there have been remarkable results from some of these schools where there remains a nucleus of dedicated teachers (pity they are not all like that). The general demise has also spread to tertiary institutions. Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. Unfortunately, there is a terrible lingering obsession with race in SA - now a type of reverse apartheid. In the old days, the Coloureds & Indians were not white enough - now they are not black enough - eternally caught in the middle. Social tampering, quotas & "affirmative" action are the order of the day. In the end, it really all comes down to politics and the securing of votes. Where do all the politician's children go the school? You guessed it! Alan C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Alan, I appreciate your comments and insight from outside the USA. My daughter-in-law is a special education teacher in the public schools. This year she sees students who are 2 or 3 years behind in reading or math. But they are the good stories with involved parents. Before this, she taught 5+ years in a 'behavior disorders' classroom. The children, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders, were all damaged from birth, having been born to mothers addicted to one thing or another. These single parents barely can keep their own lives together, let alone be involved in their child's education. It's a sad situation I cannot imagine how to solve. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Alan C wrote: > The educational side of this thread has been most interesting. > > I thought the educational system in SA was very bad but it seems the > problems are universal. We have private schools funded by the parents (no > Govt. assistance) which have the best facilities and teachers. Costs are > very high but results are outstanding. Then we have the Model C schools (the > Govt. schools in the former "white" areas) which are funded partially by > parents & partially by Govt. The standards are still pretty good but > discipline is becoming a problem. Lastly we have the so called township & > farm schools which are totally (but inadequately) funded by the Govt. The > teachers are unionized, discipline is non-existent & performance is > terrible. There seems to be no political will to redress the situation apart > from tampering with syllabi & lowering standards to keep the pass rate up. > Nevertheless, there have been remarkable results from some of these schools > where there remains a nucleus of dedicated teachers (pity they are not all > like that). The general demise has also spread to tertiary institutions. > Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. > Unfortunately, there is a terrible lingering obsession with race in SA - now > a type of reverse apartheid. In the old days, the Coloureds & Indians were > not white enough - now they are not black enough - eternally caught in the > middle. Social tampering, quotas & "affirmative" action are the order of the > day. In the end, it really all comes down to politics and the securing of > votes. Where do all the politician's children go the school? You guessed it! > > Alan C > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 12/04/2013 1:50 AM, Alan C wrote: Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. You can't fix what was a racial travesty in one generation. Until everyone who lived with Apartheid are dead and buried, Apartheid is going to resonate in your society. We had our own form of systematized racism in Canada towards the native population. Up until about 18 years ago, we had these entities called Residential Schools, whose it was to teach Indian kids to be white. The methods were simple: kidnap native children from their parents (it wasn't called that, but that was the reality), stick them into a large and unfamiliar institution and beat them for using their own language instead of English, and instill into them the core values of white society, which included sexual abuse along with the physical abuse, and then, the ones who were lucky enough to survive were kicked back into a society that didn't want them. They weren't Indians any more, and didn't fit into the native society, and they weren't white (and they were very screwed up people), so they didn't fit into the white society that they had supposedly been prepped for. And so, they became wards of the state, with multi generational welfare, rampant drug and alcohol abuse, and lots of criminal activity and violence. This went on for the better part of a century and a half, and our more conservative elements in Canadian society figure that the problems the natives are having is all the fault of the natives. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: > > > You may want to think what photos you post: > http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ > > Cheers, > > Igor > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: > I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for > photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually > receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: >> >> >> You may want to think what photos you post: >> http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Igor >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
More importantly, you may want to think about the context in which you post your pictures. Although on the surface of it this is a very worrying event, I don't think that anyone here [*] would have been arrested for posting this image on Flickr or photo.net. What drew police attention to this woman is her recent activity. She's a student who has been arrested and fined multiple times during tuition-hike protests in the last year. This image is just one in a series of anti-police images she has posted recently, which according to The Globe & Mail included: `` a photo of a bullet several weeks ago with the caption "we're going to kill," along with a photo of another piece of graffiti that said "one cop, one bullet." A photo posted on the eve of her arrest showed graffiti with the message "Death to cops." Ms. Pawluck posted the photos on Instagram under her handle, anarcommie.'' So this wasn't a random arrest. Pawluck is being disingenuous about this incident and coyly says "art is art". http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-woman-facing-charges-over-online-anti-police-graffiti/article10779292/ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/03/jennifer-pawluck-arrested-instagram-graffiti-police_n_3010400.html http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/why-was-a-student-in-montreal-arrested-for-instagramming-graffiti http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/jennifer-pawluck-arrested-posting-anti-police-art-instagram -- [*] a possible exception being Larry. :-) On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: > > > You may want to think what photos you post: > http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ > > Cheers, > > Igor > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! From: Stan Halpin As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: You may want to think what photos you post: http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ Cheers, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
John, I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? No more publishing threats to harm others. It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. > > Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! > > From: Stan Halpin >> >> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem >> is that she posted it on a public forum. >> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is >> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats >> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a >> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. >> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. >> >> stan >> >> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for >>> photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually >>> receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: You may want to think what photos you post: http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ Cheers, Igor > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't like is fascist. Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to hear. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: > John, > I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? > No more publishing threats to harm others. > It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. > Regards, Bob S. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: >> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >> >> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >> >> From: Stan Halpin >>> >>> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem >>> is that she posted it on a public forum. >>> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is >>> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats >>> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a >>> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. >>> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. >>> >>> stan >>> >>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: > > > > You may want to think what photos you post: > > http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ > > Cheers, > > Igor >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
No Dave. Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons wrote: > Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't > like is fascist. > > Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to hear. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: >> John, >> I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? >> No more publishing threats to harm others. >> It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: >>> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >>> >>> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >>> >>> From: Stan Halpin As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: > I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for > photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually > receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: >> >> >> >> You may want to think what photos you post: >> >> http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Igor >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > David Parsons Photography > http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com > > Aloha Photographer Photoblog > http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: > No Dave. > Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. > I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. > Regards, Bob S. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons wrote: >> Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't >> like is fascist. >> >> Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to >> hear. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: >>> John, >>> I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? >>> No more publishing threats to harm others. >>> It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. >>> Regards, Bob S. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! From: Stan Halpin > > As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem > is that she posted it on a public forum. > Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is > going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats > against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a > serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. > I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. > > stan > > On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: > >> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for >> photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually >> receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. >> >> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> You may want to think what photos you post: >>> >>> http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> >> >> -- >> David Parsons Photography >> http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com >> >> Aloha Photographer Photoblog >> http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
And also, the once who initially is censored will increase the volume until they get attention, like children. That was also one of the reasons our madman used after killing a lot of children. He felt that he was censored and not allowed to speak his opinion. I think it is better to let them be discussed in the open. Most people will not be mislead by their opinions, and if they did the society as a whole has a major problem anyway. DagT 5. apr. 2013 kl. 22:54 skrev David Parsons : > I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to > their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. > > And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, > they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: >> No Dave. >> Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. >> I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons >> wrote: >>> Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't >>> like is fascist. >>> >>> Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to >>> hear. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: John, I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? No more publishing threats to harm others. It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. > > Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! > > From: Stan Halpin >> >> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem >> is that she posted it on a public forum. >> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is >> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats >> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a >> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. >> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. >> >> stan >> >> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for >>> photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually >>> receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: You may want to think what photos you post: http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ Cheers, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
DagT, This plants the idea in immature and sick minds that killing is OK. 'Look, they are recommending it on the internet.' Or in 'Call to Duty' video games. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:43 PM, DagT wrote: > And also, the once who initially is censored will increase the volume until > they get attention, like children. > That was also one of the reasons our madman used after killing a lot of > children. He felt that he was censored and not allowed to speak his opinion. > > I think it is better to let them be discussed in the open. Most people will > not be mislead by their opinions, and if they did the society as a whole has > a major problem anyway. > > DagT > > 5. apr. 2013 kl. 22:54 skrev David Parsons : > >> I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to >> their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. >> >> And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, >> they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: >>> No Dave. >>> Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. >>> I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. >>> Regards, Bob S. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons >>> wrote: Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't like is fascist. Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to hear. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: > John, > I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? > No more publishing threats to harm others. > It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. > Regards, Bob S. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms > wrote: >> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >> >> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >> >> From: Stan Halpin >>> >>> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem >>> is that she posted it on a public forum. >>> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is >>> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats >>> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a >>> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. >>> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. >>> >>> stan >>> >>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: > > > > You may want to think what photos you post: > > http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ > > Cheers, > > Igor > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
The paranoids will find more than enough to self-justify their paranoid conspiracy notions; it is a central aspect of the disease. The "need" to coddle them is not reason enough to allow the propagation of threats of violence. I am all for freedom of speech and freedom of expression. But I don't think yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater as a prank is a legitimate exercise of free speech, nor do I think that death threats against police or politicians has any place in reasoned public discourse in a democratic society. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:54 PM, David Parsons wrote: > I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to > their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. > > And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, > they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: >> No Dave. >> Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. >> I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons >> wrote: >>> Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't >>> like is fascist. >>> >>> Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to >>> hear. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: John, I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? No more publishing threats to harm others. It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. > > Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! > > From: Stan Halpin >> >> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem >> is that she posted it on a public forum. >> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is >> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats >> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a >> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. >> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. >> >> stan >> >> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for >>> photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually >>> receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: You may want to think what photos you post: http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ Cheers, Igor > > > > >>> David Parsons Photography >>> http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com >>> >>> Aloha Photographer Photoblog >>> http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I've been following this thread for a while. First of all, even in america, there are limits to free speech. You don't have a right to harass someone (this is a slippery slope I realize...) or threaten their life. This girls actions repeatedly did so and emphasized and encouraged violence against a group of individuals. If they were black, she'd be a racist and nobody would feel any pity for her. As much as I dislike the current police state that america has become, I still do not hate police because they are all people after all and there are always good and bad people. If people want to get upset, they should be looking at the politicians and prison industrial complex that have made this country into the highest in the world in terms of incarcerations. We don't need fema concentration camps. Our laws weed the lower class from society automatically. We have already lost. What this young woman did was very hateful and definitely threatening and enticing violent action. All of which are technically against the law here, and for good reasons. Free speech is no free ride. This wasn't an art project. it was intentional harassment. Also not mentioned nearly enough is the already existing restraining order against her. This clearly has been racheting up for a while. She's obviously a moron if you ask me. I guess she was a protester that got arrested and decided cops were all satan. Whatever. Still doesn't give her a right to publically and actively encourage murder. Just some thoughts. Stan Halpin wrote: >The paranoids will find more than enough to self-justify their paranoid >conspiracy notions; it is a central aspect of the disease. The "need" >to coddle them is not reason enough to allow the propagation of threats >of violence. I am all for freedom of speech and freedom of expression. >But I don't think yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater as a prank is a >legitimate exercise of free speech, nor do I think that death threats >against police or politicians has any place in reasoned public >discourse in a democratic society. > >stan > >On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:54 PM, David Parsons wrote: > >> I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to >> their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. >> >> And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, >> they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan >wrote: >>> No Dave. >>> Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. >>> I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. >>> Regards, Bob S. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons > wrote: Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't like is fascist. Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't >want to hear. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan > wrote: > John, > I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? > No more publishing threats to harm others. > It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. > Regards, Bob S. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms > wrote: >> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >> >> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >> >> From: Stan Halpin >>> >>> As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The >problem >>> is that she posted it on a public forum. >>> Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. >President is >>> going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making >threats >>> against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some >makes a >>> serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and >post it. >>> I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less >culpable. >>> >>> stan >>> >>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: >>> I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would >eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite >profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin >wrote: > > > > You may want to think what photos you post: > > >http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ > > Cheers, > > Igor >> >> >> >> David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Two objections: First of all, calling that photo a "threat to harm others" is bogus. Secondly, as I pointed out, it's protected by the 1st Amendment. Even speech I don't agree with; speech that's sick, disagreeable, vile & disgusting is protected by the 1st Amendment. What other Constitutional protections do you think we must give up in the name of civility? From: Bob Sullivan John, I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? No more publishing threats to harm others. It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms wrote: In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! From: Stan Halpin As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: You may want to think what photos you post: http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ Cheers, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Oh no. I've been drawn in to the debate. :p So its ok if I take pictures of you and photoshop them to make it look like you are beheaded and post copies of the with the words "Kill John"? What if I do the same with the President? See my actions are actually infringing upon your rights. Sure you have a right to do things, but being a member of society is also a social contract. We agree to be nice to each other. It might not have been much of a threat, but I would argue it was certainly harassment. Did you miss the part where she already has a restraining order? This isn't her first run in. You can't keep attacking the police without expecting some kind of response. While the charges may be arguably trumped up, her actions were certainly not befitting someone who wished to contribute positively to society. If you are going to provoke authority you should do it gently. John Sessoms wrote: >Two objections: > >First of all, calling that photo a "threat to harm others" is bogus. > >Secondly, as I pointed out, it's protected by the 1st Amendment. Even >speech I don't agree with; speech that's sick, disagreeable, vile & >disgusting is protected by the 1st Amendment. > >What other Constitutional protections do you think we must give up in >the name of civility? > > >From: Bob Sullivan >> John, >> I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? >> No more publishing threats to harm others. >> It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms >wrote: >>> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >>> >>> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >>> >>> From: Stan Halpin As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The >problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President >is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making >threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and >post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less >culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: > I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for > photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would >eventually > receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite >profitable. > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin >wrote: >> >> >> >> You may want to think what photos you post: >> >> >http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 08:23:45PM -0400, Zos Xavius wrote: > Oh no. I've been drawn in to the debate. :p > > So its ok if I take pictures of you and photoshop them to make it look like > you are beheaded and post copies of the with the words "Kill John"? What if > I do the same with the President? See my actions are actually infringing > upon your rights. Sure you have a right to do things, but being a member of > society is also a social contract. We agree to be nice to each other. It > might not have been much of a threat, but I would argue it was certainly > harassment. Did you miss the part where she already has a restraining > order? This isn't her first run in. You can't keep attacking the police > without expecting some kind of response. While the charges may be > arguably trumped up, her actions were certainly not befitting someone who > wished to contribute positively to society. If you are going to provoke > authority you should do it gently. But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". If what she did was threatening, then so is every newscaster covering a violent riot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
She wasn't presenting them as news or facts but rather as propoganda. The NY times cannot publish cartoons endorsing the president's asassination. I cannot publish an editorial stating that people should get their guns and kill the nearest police officer they see. She was also part of some cop hating group or something like that. I see your points (and I'm mostly playing devils advocate, because I'm no fan of police), but there are limits on speech and harassment and threats are generally considered criminal and yeah that's certainly the start of a very slippery slope. I'm also apalled that a photographer was charged with anything for street photography. Maybe he was being a dick (some are), I dunno, but what he did was within his rights. I try to at least be respectful of people at least. Maybe he went wrong there, but that's nothing to go to jail over. Larry Colen wrote: >On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 08:23:45PM -0400, Zos Xavius wrote: >> Oh no. I've been drawn in to the debate. :p >> >> So its ok if I take pictures of you and photoshop them to make it >look like you are beheaded and post copies of the with the words "Kill >John"? What if I do the same with the President? See my actions are >actually infringing upon your rights. Sure you have a right to do >things, but being a member of society is also a social contract. We >agree to be nice to each other. It might not have been much of a >threat, but I would argue it was certainly harassment. Did you >miss the part where she already has a restraining order? This isn't >her first run in. You can't keep attacking the police without >expecting some kind of response. While the charges may be >arguably trumped up, her actions were certainly not befitting >someone who wished to contribute positively to society. If you are >going to provoke authority you should do it gently. > >But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", >she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". > >If what she did was threatening, then so is every newscaster covering >a violent riot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Larry Colen: > But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", > she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". John Sessoms: > First of all, calling that photo a "threat to harm others" is bogus. The arrest is *not* because of this _one single image_. It resulted from of a series of images and incidents. All explained here … http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2013-April/342131.html On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 08:23:45PM -0400, Zos Xavius wrote: >> Oh no. I've been drawn in to the debate. :p >> >> So its ok if I take pictures of you and photoshop them to make it look like >> you are beheaded and post copies of the with the words "Kill John"? What if >> I do the same with the President? See my actions are actually infringing >> upon your rights. Sure you have a right to do things, but being a member of >> society is also a social contract. We agree to be nice to each other. It >> might not have been much of a threat, but I would argue it was certainly >> harassment. Did you miss the part where she already has a restraining >> order? This isn't her first run in. You can't keep attacking the police >> without expecting some kind of response. While the charges may be >> arguably trumped up, her actions were certainly not befitting someone >> who wished to contribute positively to society. If you are going to >> provoke authority you should do it gently. > > But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", > she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". > > If what she did was threatening, then so is every newscaster covering > a violent riot. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 6/4/13, Bipin Gupta, discombobulated, unleashed: >Worst still we found folks absolutely naked on the streets of San Francisco, >Castro District I think, with the dingle-dangle and all in full >public view. And >there were children, women, tourists in the area. > >I must say I am confused by the moral & social values in the Americas. Amen brother! Amen! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
"I must say I am confused by the moral & social values in the Americas." If by "Americas," you mean the US, we have no "moral & social values." Instead, we value diversity and individual freedom. Your reference to San Francisco is a good case in point. If you go to the tourist areas, or the business areas, of the city, you will not see the kind of display that you witnessed. Like many of our cities, and many European cities, like Copenhagen or Amsterdam, there are areas where alternative life styles are not only tolerated, but actually encouraged. If one doesn't want to see nudity, pot, or other sights that distress or offend you, one avoids those areas. There are plenty of places in the US where pervasive wholesomeness is almost overwhelming. We like it that way. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:28 AM, Bipin Gupta wrote: > Hi John, Stan, Bob and many other good PDMLers, I agree with you folks > that we should not publish, depict, post or spread hatred on a Public Network. > I have lived in many parts of the world, including my native Bangalore India. > In some places I find the Police very haughty, high handed, loud and with > an intimidating body language / swagger. They hand cuff people for petty > misdemeanors, even when they are not violent. > > Here in India or in Muscat, Oman and in Dubai, the UAE, I have never > seen Police handcuffing people except in homicide cases or violent > crimes. In fact I was surprised to find the Royal Oman Police very kind, > helpful and humane. > > I remember being involved in a pile up - high way speed here is 120 kmph. > The Police Officer greeted us with an "As Saalam Alaikum", shook hands > and requested us for our Driving Licence and the Vehicle Registration Card. > He then directed us to the nearest Police Station, where we were issued > with the Police Report, which helps us file the Insurance Claim. > > I believe this lady had some tiff with the Police earlier during Protests for > College Fee Hike or something. She may have had a grouse and vented > it by photographing violent street art and then publishing it. > > I have seen such street art on a paid photo walk in San Francisco. > Worst still we found folks absolutely naked on the streets of San Francisco, > Castro District I think, with the dingle-dangle and all in full > public view. And > there were children, women, tourists in the area. > > I must say I am confused by the moral & social values in the Americas. > > Once in Chicago, I saw a lovely little girl in a wheel chair. I had a > little brother like her with mental retardation, but he drowned swimming > in the river Ganga. So I bent down to chat with her out of over whelming > love and affection and blessed her by touching her hair and fore head. > My host later told me it is not a done thing here. I was sad on hearing this. > > Regards. > Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Larry Colen On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 08:23:45PM -0400, Zos Xavius wrote: Oh no. I've been drawn in to the debate. :p So its ok if I take pictures of you and photoshop them to make it look like you are beheaded and post copies of the with the words "Kill John"? What if I do the same with the President? See my actions are actually infringing upon your rights. Sure you have a right to do things, but being a member of society is also a social contract. We agree to be nice to each other. It might not have been much of a threat, but I would argue it was certainly harassment. Did you miss the part where she already has a restraining order? This isn't her first run in. You can't keep attacking the police without expecting some kind of response. While the charges may be arguably trumped up, her actions were certainly not befitting someone who wished to contribute positively to society. If you are going to provoke authority you should do it gently. But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". If what she did was threatening, then so is every newscaster covering a violent riot. Under the standard Zos is proposing, if I take his hypothetical argument here in PDML the wrong way, he's committed a crime. He doesn't get to decide whether he's made a threat, I do. Authority should consider not provoking me with trumped up charges. It's carving out an exception to the 1st Amendment to allow prosecution of "thought crime". I just don't think that's such a good idea. You can't have a strong protection for free speech if you don't protect disagreeable speech? I also note this happened in Canada where they don't have 1st Amendment rights. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Zos Xavius She wasn't presenting them as news or facts but rather as propoganda. The NY times cannot publish cartoons endorsing the president's asassination. I cannot publish an editorial stating that people should get their guns and kill the nearest police officer they see. She was also part of some cop hating group or something like that. I see your points (and I'm mostly playing devils advocate, because I'm no fan of police), but there are limits on speech and harassment and threats are generally considered criminal and yeah that's certainly the start of a very slippery slope. I'm also apalled that a photographer was charged with anything for street photography. Maybe he was being a dick (some are), I dunno, but what he did was within his rights. I try to at least be respectful of people at least. Maybe he went wrong there, but that's nothing to go to jail over. You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope", justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part of some cop hating group or something". -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Bruce Walker Larry Colen: But, what she did was not get up and say "John should be killed", she took a picture of someone saying "John should be killed". John Sessoms: First of all, calling that photo a "threat to harm others" is bogus. The arrest is *not* because of this _one single image_. It resulted from of a series of images and incidents. All explained here ? http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2013-April/342131.html I've read 'em. They're still prosecuting "thought crime". -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 06/04/2013 9:01 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? It needs an adjective? bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Bipin Gupta wrote: > I have seen this confusion here in India Dan, which believe me is the > "Most Free Country in the World". The most free country in the world? Like the US, and every other country, India still has major challenges to true freedom. There is still discrimination against women and girls. "Dowry deaths," honor killings, and female foeticide still occur from time to time in certain segments of society. Maoists terrorize the population in certain areas. Adivasis and members of the lowest casts are treated severely. I am not saying that the US is better than India in all respects, only that both countries have serious problems that need to be addressed. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. > > On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >> ... >> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >> I fully understand Western Values. >> ... > What's wrong with this sentence? > Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: > On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > >> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. >> >> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >>> ... >>> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >>> I fully understand Western Values. >>> ... >> What's wrong with this sentence? > > Spurious logic. > > B > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. > > Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan > > On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: > >> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >> >>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. >>> >>> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... >>> What's wrong with this sentence? >> >> Spurious logic. >> >> B >> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > >> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >> >> Paul via phone > > Except in parts of the South and Midwest. > > stan > >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: >> >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: > ... > I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so > I fully understand Western Values. > ... What's wrong with this sentence? >>> >>> Spurious logic. >>> >>> B >>> > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are partially funded by taxpayer money. The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an education. I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. -p On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really fit the definition of a public school. Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in that federal student loans have always been available at religiously affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public schools." In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a school > offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are > non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a Republican > governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called "voucher schools" > whereby private and religious schools are partially funded by taxpayer money. > > The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the public > schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't perform any > better and in some cases don't provide as good an education. > > I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church and state, > but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. > > -p > > On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> I've never seen a United States public school that has religious >> affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. >> >> Paul >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: >> >>> >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone >>> >>> Except in parts of the South and Midwest. >>> >>> stan >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: > On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > >> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. >> >> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >>> ... >>> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >>> I fully understand Western Values. >>> ... >> What's wrong with this sentence? > > Spurious logic. > > B > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> > > -- > Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. > I would think it would be unconstitutional. > > Paul > On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: > >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> >>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >>> >>> Paul via phone >> >> Except in parts of the South and Midwest. >> >> stan >> >>> >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. > > On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >> ... >> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >> I fully understand Western Values. >> ... > What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
That's one from the lunatic fringe. Even if passed by the legislature, it wouldn't have survived a week. On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:38 PM, David Parsons wrote: > North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed) > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html > > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Paul Stenquist > wrote: >> I've never seen a United States public school that has religious >> affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. >> >> Paul >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: >> >>> >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone >>> >>> Except in parts of the South and Midwest. >>> >>> stan >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: > On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > >> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. >> >> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >>> ... >>> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >>> I fully understand Western Values. >>> ... >> What's wrong with this sentence? > > Spurious logic. > > B > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > David Parsons Photography > http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com > > Aloha Photographer Photoblog > http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make their > own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is compelled to > attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really fit the definition of > a public school. > I guess that depends on your definition of "public school." I think a public school is one that any child may attend (subject only to district boundaries and related residency requirements), funded with my tax dollars. Charter schools fit. Yes, some have exclusionary policies (they don't want to deal with low performers) but I believe mostly they are open to those wanting to attend. But my comment about publicly funded religious schools was based on the widespread practice of treating the public schools as an extension of the Christian church when it comes to science studies, social studies, history studies, the use of religious-themed banners and posters in the school, etc. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 06/04/2013 5:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. > Don`t your kids still recite the pledge of allegiance from time to time? It`s got God in it. That`s pretty religious, though non denominational. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
My kids didn't recite the pledge of allegiance, and Grace doesn't do so today. I think that went away for the most part forty years ago or so. I'm not sure that it was a bad thing, but it's gone. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Bill wrote: > On 06/04/2013 5:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > I've never seen a United States public school that has religious > > affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. > > > > Don`t your kids still recite the pledge of allegiance from time to time? It`s > got God in it. That`s pretty religious, though non denominational. > > bill > > > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
While I don't agree with the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge of allegiance, I think it's an important thing to have to build a common sense of national unity. And our money does have references to god on it, and Congress offers prayers at various times, and other miscellaneous things, sometimes you have to pick your battles and fight the big fights. There was a case several years ago where an atheist father tried to have 'under God' stricken from the pledge (it was added during the McCarthy red scare era), and he was widely reviled by many. It was counterproductive for those of us that share his beliefs. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Bill wrote: > On 06/04/2013 5:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> I've never seen a United States public school that has religious >> affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. >> > > Don`t your kids still recite the pledge of allegiance from time to time? > It`s got God in it. That`s pretty religious, though non denominational. > > bill > > > > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 06/04/2013 8:58 PM, David Parsons wrote: > While I don't agree with the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge of > allegiance, I think it's an important thing to have to build a common > sense of national unity. Depends on if your sense of national unity includes non Christians, doesn't it? I'm sure all the Chinese immigrants, East Indian immigrants, or Muslim immigrants to your country feel really included. You would do better to go back to flag worship. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Did you read the rest of my post? On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Bill wrote: > On 06/04/2013 8:58 PM, David Parsons wrote: >> While I don't agree with the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge of >> allegiance, I think it's an important thing to have to build a common >> sense of national unity. > > Depends on if your sense of national unity includes non Christians, doesn't > it? I'm sure all the Chinese immigrants, East Indian immigrants, or Muslim > immigrants to your country feel really included. > You would do better to go back to flag worship. > > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really fit the definition of a public school. I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in that federal student loans have always been available at religiously affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public schools." Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on the part of the student. In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson wrote: It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are partially funded by taxpayer money. The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an education. I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. -p On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 5, 2013, at 10:28 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote: > Hi John, Stan, Bob and many other good PDMLers, I agree with you folks > that we should not publish, depict, post or spread hatred on a Public Network. > I have lived in many parts of the world, including my native Bangalore India. > In some places I find the Police very haughty, high handed, loud and with > an intimidating body language / swagger. They hand cuff people for petty > misdemeanors, even when they are not violent. > > Here in India or in Muscat, Oman and in Dubai, the UAE, I have never > seen Police handcuffing people except in homicide cases or violent > crimes. In fact I was surprised to find the Royal Oman Police very kind, > helpful and humane. About two months ago the Santa Clara police very politely handcuffed me because someone thought that my camera was a gun. > > > I have seen such street art on a paid photo walk in San Francisco. > Worst still we found folks absolutely naked on the streets of San Francisco, > Castro District I think, with the dingle-dangle and all in full > public view. And > there were children, women, tourists in the area. > > I must say I am confused by the moral & social values in the Americas. And what harm was caused to anyone from seeing someone's dingle dangle? There are other places where it would be just as shocking for a woman to show her hair, or her face. Do what thou will, as it harms none. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
The pledge doesn't specify any one god. It can be mother nature for those who so believe. Or the god of secularism. We each take our pick. On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:22 AM, Bill wrote: > On 06/04/2013 8:58 PM, David Parsons wrote: > > While I don't agree with the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge of > > allegiance, I think it's an important thing to have to build a common > > sense of national unity. > > Depends on if your sense of national unity includes non Christians, doesn't > it? I'm sure all the Chinese immigrants, East Indian immigrants, or Muslim > immigrants to your country feel really included. > You would do better to go back to flag worship. > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > Interspersed... > > On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >> fit the definition of a public school. > > I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or > religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that > they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a > private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The > taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > > >> >> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used >> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in >> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually >> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in >> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously >> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public >> schools." > > Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid > with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. > Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as > well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on > the part of the student. > >> >> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to >> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions >> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and >> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the >> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. >> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the >> competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public >> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. >> >> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson >> wrote: >> >>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a >>> school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are >>> non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a >>> Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called >>> "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are >>> partially funded by taxpayer money. >>> >>> The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the >>> public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't >>> perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an >>> education. >>> >>> I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church >>> and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. >>> >>> -p >>> >>> On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > >> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >> >> Paul via phone > > Except in parts of the South and Midwest. > > stan > >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W >> wrote: >> >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele >>> wrote: >>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: > ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding > Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. > ... What's wrong with this sentence? >>> >>> Spurious logic. >>> >>> B >>> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE > from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. >>> >>> -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. >>> >>> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from >>> the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the >>> directions. >> >> > > -- > Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 07/04/2013 5:35 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > The pledge doesn't specify any one god. It can be mother nature for those who so believe. Or the god of secularism. We each take our pick. At best, you are being disingenuous. I suspect that neither the Knights of Columbus nor Pastor Docherty were thiniing of the Flying Spaghetti Monster when they lobbied Congress to get God put into the pledge. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I >have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into fixing your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate school system by and for the financial elites. If freedom is really about options, it would be nice if that freedom was available to everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, you are limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay their way into a charter school. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in the U.S. call private schools. I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools". From: Paul Stenquist All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
That clarifies things. Good to know. On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in > the U.S. call private schools. > > I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the > kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools". > > From: Paul Stenquist >> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >> >> Paul via phone >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: >> >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: > ... > I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so > I fully understand Western Values. > ... What's wrong with this sentence? >>> >>> Spurious logic. >>> >>> B > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Some public "charter" schools are organized by religious organizations. They're *not supposed* to proselytize or discriminate against children from families that don't share their beliefs. Occasionally that actually works. From: Paul Stenquist I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Bill wrote: > On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > > > > > But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our > > failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I >have no > > problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school > > that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as those schools > > are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > > As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into fixing > your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate school system > by and for the financial elites. With vouchers private schools aren't just for the financial elite. And we've tried mightily to fix our public schools. I spent ten years working on it. But there are huge obstacles, including teacher unions that make it nearly impossible to get bad teachers out of the schools. Even with the performance standards recently enacted, less than 1 % of the current teaching staff has been judged ineffective. Yet their students are failing. Competition is the best answer. > If freedom is really about options, it would be nice if that freedom was > available to everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, you > are limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay their way > into a charter school. Again, a voucher system makes private schools accessible to all, while providing much needed competition for our public schools. Paul > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Sun, Apr 07, 2013, Bill wrote: > > As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into > fixing your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate > school system by and for the financial elites. If freedom is really > about options, it would be nice if that freedom was available to > everyone. By kicking the public school system to the curd, you are > limiting the future freedom of anyone who cannot afford to pay their > way into a charter school. That's the whey to go! -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ <*> <*> <*> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Not so much squashed as shuffled off into the shadows until the heat dies down. From: David Parsons North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. ... What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
It's the North Carolina Legislature. The lunatics aren't the fringe. From: Paul Stenquist That's one from the lunatic fringe. Even if passed by the legislature, it wouldn't have survived a week. On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:38 PM, David Parsons wrote: North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 7, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Bill wrote: > >> On 07/04/2013 5:40 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> >>> >> >>> But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our >>> failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I >have no >>> problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school >>> that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long >as those schools >>> are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. >> >> As a society, you would do better to put a great deal of effort into fixing >> your failing public schools rather than setting up a separate school system >> by and for the financial elites. > > With vouchers private schools aren't just for the financial elite. And we've > tried mightily to fix our public schools. I spent ten years working on it. > But there are huge obstacles, including teacher unions that make it nearly > impossible to get bad teachers out of the schools. Even with the performance > standards recently enacted, less than 1 % of the current teaching staff has > been judged ineffective. Yet their students are failing. Competition is the > best answer. If you really want kids to do well in school, you just need to make sure that every kid has access to either an Asian or a Jewish mother. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:41 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > It's the North Carolina Legislature. The lunatics aren't the fringe. I can believe that. > > From: Paul Stenquist >> That's one from the lunatic fringe. Even if passed by the legislature, it >> wouldn't >> have survived a week. >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:38 PM, David Parsons wrote: >> >>> North Carolina is trying a novel approach (that has already been squashed) >>> >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/state-religion-bill-north-carolina_n_3016154.html > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 6/4/13, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed: >My kids didn't recite the pledge of allegiance, and Grace doesn't do so >today. I think that went away for the most part forty years ago or so. >I'm not sure that it was a bad thing, but it's gone. I used to put my hand on my heart and recite with all the other second- graders in Mrs Bube's class. On the first day she wrote her name on the board and firmly reinforced its pronunciation: "like c-u-b-e"... -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
From: Paul Sorenson Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really fit the definition of a public school. I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. Yeah. That's my big objection. I don't mind paying the taxes that go to public schools, but they're taxing me to pay for church schools. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:56, "Steve Cottrell" wrote: > On 6/4/13, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed: > >> My kids didn't recite the pledge of allegiance, and Grace doesn't do so >> today. I think that went away for the most part forty years ago or so. >> I'm not sure that it was a bad thing, but it's gone. > > I used to put my hand on my heart and recite with all the other second- > graders in Mrs Bube's class. On the first day she wrote her name on the > board and firmly reinforced its pronunciation: "like c-u-b-e"... > > > She could probably have taught a thing or two to our German teacher, Herr Kundt. B > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools, state-funded religious schools, privately-funded religious schools, city academies, 6th-form colleges, private tutors, community colleges, reform schools, schools of art, technical schools, schools of dolphins, seminaries, madrassas and football academies. They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher associations, local authorities, central government, the Football Association, Opus Dei, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel Blue, Tony Blair's creationist chums, and Abu Hamza. There are four national curricula. External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board, Oxford University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA, OCR, CIE, edexcel, CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue Perkins. Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and Sir James Savile (deceased). The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted, Father Ted, and half a kilo of kumquats. Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education, who in turn is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to no-one. It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent. Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.) On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:18, John Sessoms wrote: > What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in > the U.S. call private schools. > > I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the > kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools". > > From: Paul Stenquist >> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >> >> Paul via phone >> >> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: >> >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: > ... > I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so > I fully understand Western Values. > ... What's wrong with this sentence? >>> >>> Spurious logic. >>> >>> B > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
John - I understand your feeling, but look at it this way. If all of the private schools closed tomorrow the public schools would have to instantly absorb all of those children. How many new schools would your city need to build and how many additional teachers would your city need to hire to handle the increased enrollment? How much would that cost? That figure is the amount that the public schools are being subsidized by the private school parents. Religious school or not - private schools save the taxpayers a lot of money. In my area many or most of the public schools are at or near capacity. Several of the buildings have quite a few "temporary" classrooms in trailers. The school nearest me has had those temporary trailers behind the school since I moved here in the mid '80s. I don't know how long they had been there before that. There is no way the school system could absorb the thousands of kids in private schools. The public administrators have openly admitted this on several occasions. The private school parents voluntarily pay their taxes and private tuition not only for religious reasons. The private schools have their own problems. But that is a different topic. Any tax dollars that help keep the private schools open are tax dollars that would be spent for those same students to be transferred to public schools. And since most religious schools around here operate on a lot less money per student, the cost to the tax payers would be even greater. gs George Sinos www.GeorgesPhotos.net www.GeorgeSinos.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:05 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Paul Sorenson >> >> Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> >>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >>> fit the definition of a public school. >> >> >> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to >> private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My >> point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if >> they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay >> tuition. The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to >> subsidize them. > > > Yeah. That's my big objection. I don't mind paying the taxes that go to > public schools, but they're taxing me to pay for church schools. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
"Competition for public schools"? You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down. Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury". Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do. In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are already well off. This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished students to have a quality education. Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it. Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Paul Stenquist Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13 To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > Interspersed... > > On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >> fit the definition of a public school. > > I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or > religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that > they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a > private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The > taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > > >> >> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used >> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in >> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually >> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in >> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously >> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public >> schools." > > Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid > with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. > Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as > well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on > the part of the student. > >> >> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to >> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions >> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and >> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the >> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. >> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the >> competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public >> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. >> >> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson >> wrote: >> >>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a >>> school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are >>> non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a >>> Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called >>> "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are >>> partially funded by taxpayer money. >>> >>> The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the >>> public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't >>> perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an >>> education. >>> >>> I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church >>> and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. >>> >>> -p >>> >>> On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>>> I've never seen a United States public school that has religious >>>> affiliation. I wou
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
"You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down. Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury"." Yes they do, although it isn't a "luxury." Public school that are failing are being shut down now, at least in New Jersey and New York. The students are transferred to more competent school. The building are either re-purposed, or used for a new school, sometimes a charter school. "Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do. In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are already well off." That is the talking point of the teacher unions, but it is far from the truth. Charter schools and other alternative schools have reduced overcrowding in under-performing public schools, improving the ability of the latter to improve. Instead of favoring families that are "well-off," vouchers make it possible for students from poor families to attend schools with middle-class and "well-off" families. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: > "Competition for public schools"? > > You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses > don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down. > > Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury". > > Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder > for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do. > > In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are > already well off. > > This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like > "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where > to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished > students to have a quality education. > > Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it. > > Cheers, > frank > > --- Original Message --- > > From: Paul Stenquist > Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13 > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested > > > On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > >> Interspersed... >> >> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >>> fit the definition of a public school. >> >> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or >> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that >> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a >> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The >> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. > > But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our > failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem > with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that > preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are > succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > >> >> >>> >>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used >>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in >>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually >>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in >>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously >>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public >>> schools." >> >> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid >> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. >> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as >> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on >> the part of the student. >> >>> >>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to >>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions >>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and >>
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Our public schools have, for the most part, failed miserably at great cost. Voucher systems done correctly spend the same amount per pupil, and more of the money goes to education rather than support of an educational bureaucracy. I spent ten years in public schools that were overweight with administration and tolerated any and all kind of ineptitude. Competition is necessary. And it's here. We now have a fledgling network of charter schools in most states, and things are looking up. The only ones who are unhappy are the teacher unions, the fat cats who run them, and the pols who depend on them for votes. On Apr 7, 2013, at 3:34 PM, "knarftheria...@gmail.com" wrote: > "Competition for public schools"? > > You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses > don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down. > > Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury". > > Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder > for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do. > > In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are > already well off. > > This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like > "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where > to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished > students to have a quality education. > > Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it. > > Cheers, > frank > > --- Original Message --- > > From: Paul Stenquist > Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13 > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested > > > On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: > >> Interspersed... >> >> On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >>> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >>> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >>> fit the definition of a public school. >> >> I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or >> religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that >> they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a >> private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The >> taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. > > But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our > failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem > with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that > preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are > succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > >> >> >>> >>> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used >>> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in >>> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually >>> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in >>> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously >>> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public >>> schools." >> >> Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid >> with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. >> Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as >> well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on >> the part of the student. >> >>> >>> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to >>> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions >>> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and >>> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the >>> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. >>> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the >>> competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public >>> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. >>> >>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it&
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
In other words, you have plenty of people competing to provide education. And it works well for you. Paul On Apr 7, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Bob W wrote: > We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools, > state-funded religious schools, privately-funded religious schools, city > academies, 6th-form colleges, private tutors, community colleges, reform > schools, schools of art, technical schools, schools of dolphins, seminaries, > madrassas and football academies. > > They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher associations, > local authorities, central government, the Football Association, Opus Dei, > the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel Blue, Tony Blair's creationist > chums, and Abu Hamza. > > There are four national curricula. > > External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board, Oxford > University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA, OCR, CIE, > edexcel, CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue Perkins. > > Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and Sir James > Savile (deceased). > > The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted, Father Ted, > and half a kilo of kumquats. > > Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education, who in > turn is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to no-one. > > It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent. > > Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.) > > > On 7 Apr 2013, at 17:18, John Sessoms wrote: > >> What the British & I guess India call "Public Schools" are what we in >> the U.S. call private schools. >> >> I'm not sure what they call actual public schools, except they call the >> kind of private schools we call Charter Schools "free schools". >> >> From: Paul Stenquist >>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >>> >>> Paul via phone >>> >>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: >>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this discussion.. > > On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >> ... >> I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School, so >> I fully understand Western Values. >> ... > What's wrong with this sentence? Spurious logic. B >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 7/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.) I'm reporting you to OFTWAT. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
The sick minds are there already, and they have their internet sites too. Many of them are closed but I know a couple of them and they do support and recommend criminal acts, even as far as murder. The reason for discussing weird and dangerous ideas in the open is that if they are left to themselves the ideas seam to be normal in their areas. Offering resistance to the ideas is a way to reduce the recruiting and making it clear that they are known, the ideas are discussed and that the majority does not agree with them, even though they may feel that they are within their small communities. Dag Thrane http://www.thrane.name 5. apr. 2013 kl. 23:59 skrev Bob Sullivan : > DagT, > This plants the idea in immature and sick minds that killing is OK. > 'Look, they are recommending it on the internet.' Or in 'Call to > Duty' video games. > Regards, Bob S. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:43 PM, DagT wrote: >> And also, the once who initially is censored will increase the volume until >> they get attention, like children. >> That was also one of the reasons our madman used after killing a lot of >> children. He felt that he was censored and not allowed to speak his opinion. >> >> I think it is better to let them be discussed in the open. Most people will >> not be mislead by their opinions, and if they did the society as a whole has >> a major problem anyway. >> >> DagT >> >> 5. apr. 2013 kl. 22:54 skrev David Parsons : >> >>> I disagree. When you censor people, it tends to lend credence to >>> their paranoia about the institutions that they distrust. >>> >>> And when the government feels that it's okay to censor one group, >>> they'll eventually feel that it's okay to censor any group. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: No Dave. Censoring opinions that promote killing people is a good idea. I'd rather keep access to guns and censor killing promotion. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, David Parsons wrote: > Because that leads to censorship. Censoring opinions that we don't > like is fascist. > > Our society very much needs to tolerate the things that we don't want to > hear. > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan > wrote: >> John, >> I'm with Stan. Why don't we make the world a more civil place? >> No more publishing threats to harm others. >> It's a sickness our society no longer needs to tolerate. >> Regards, Bob S. >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Sessoms >> wrote: >>> In the U.S. this would be protected by the 1st Amendment. >>> >>> Calling her photo a threat is HORSE CRAP! >>> >>> From: Stan Halpin As I read it, the problem is not that she took a picture. The problem is that she posted it on a public forum. Think about it. Making physical threats against the U.S. President is going to attract the attention of the Secret Service, making threats against others is arguably an offense as well. So, say some makes a serious threat, you then copy and/or photograph that threat and post it. I don't see how your lack of originality makes you any less culpable. stan On Apr 5, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Darren Addy wrote: > I'm not sure about Canada, but I would love to get arrested for > photographing something in the U.S. The judgment I would eventually > receive for false arrest would make the proposition quite profitable. > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Igor Roshchin > wrote: >> >> >> >> You may want to think what photos you post: >> >> http://hyperallergic.com/68151/artist-arrested-for-instagramming-street-art/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Igor >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 7 Apr 2013, at 21:41, "Steve Cottrell" wrote: > On 7/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > >> Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.) > > I'm reporting you to OFTWAT. > Cameron abolished it. Self defence. B > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
From: Bob W We have private schools, public schools, grant-maintained schools, state-funded religious schools, privately-funded religious schools, city academies, 6th-form colleges, private tutors, community colleges, reform schools, schools of art, technical schools, schools of dolphins, seminaries, madrassas and football academies. Which of the schools on that list would be the equivalent of U.S. "public schools"? Here in the U.S., local governments - city, town, county, ... - pay for (theoretically) free, tax supported, "public schools" for ALL children. The main tax funding for these schools comes from the state, but local jurisdiction taxes supplement this and the state money is to the local jurisdiction based on a per pupil basis. The local school system has most of the control over how the money is divided between salaries, supplies and physical plant, although the state can mandate the local system must pay for certain programs (usually because some court has ruled the state must provide the service of that program). Attendance by "school age" children is compulsory, although there are exceptions allowing for private schooling, be it church run academies, home schools, or Montessori, etc. "School age" is from Kindergarten (age 5) until you graduate from high school (grade 12) or reach your 16th birthday. Generally "private" schools are not eligible for taxpayer funding, except that North Carolina provides funds for "Pre-K" education of 4 year olds. Many of those early childhood education programs are hosted by private institutions, including churches. Some other states have other exceptions. I think New York state funds school lunches at religious schools. They are run by boards of governors, bursars, parent-teacher associations, local authorities, central government, the Football Association, Opus Dei, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rabbi Lionel Blue, Tony Blair's creationist chums, and Abu Hamza. There are four national curricula. External examinations are set by the Joint Matriculation Board, Oxford University, Cambridge University, McDonalds university, AQA, OCR, CIE, edexcel, CCEA, Lord David Beckham VC, ICAAE, WJEC and Sue Perkins. Internal examinations are conducted by the Catholic priesthood, and Sir James Savile (deceased). The examination boards are themselves examined by OFWAT, Ofsted, Father Ted, and half a kilo of kumquats. Each of these is overseen by the Secretary of State for education, who in turn is responsible to the Bullingdon Club, who answer to no-one. It's no wonder we're all so feckin' intelligent. Dr. Prof. Bob, MA, D. Phil., STD, Milk Marketing board (Hon.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
You're absolutely right, John. For Freedom of Speech to have any meaning, offensive speech must be protected, too. Abhorrent opinions must be protected. Because I don't want some beaurocrat, politician or judge drawing the line. The photo may have made us feel uneasy and no one here advocates murder, but that young lady, no matter her personal history, was not advocating it, simply portraying the message of another. What, someone is suddenly going to go shoot a cop and say, "Well, I wasn't going to, but I saw this photo..." Let's be real. She was arrested because cops don't like her. The arrest was wrong and she will almost certainly beat the charges. At least, she should... Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: John Sessoms Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13 To: pdml@pdml.net You've already gone over the precipice on your "slippery slope", justifying suppression of her right to free speech because she's "part of some cop hating group or something". -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
FYI: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which forms part of our Constitution), section 2(b): 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication. cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: John Sessoms Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13 I also note this happened in Canada where they don't have 1st Amendment rights. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Yeah, not saying Canadians don't have rights, just heading off any objection that I'm trying to apply the U.S. Constitution to a story about something that happened in Canada. From: "knarftheriault FYI: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which forms part of our Constitution), section 2(b): 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication. cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: John Sessoms Sent: April 6, 2013 4/6/13 I also note this happened in Canada where they don't have 1st Amendment rights. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Seems like here in the U.S. there's been an all out war waged on free, tax-payer supported public schools going back almost 60 years (if not longer). The schools are losing the war. Started on or about May 18, 1954. From: "knarftheriault "Competition for public schools"? You can't operate a public school system on a business model. If businesses don't work out, they can just go out of business, shut down. Public schools don't exactly have that "luxury". Voucher systems suck money away from public schools, making it even harder for them to do the job we (and students!) need them to do. In essence it is a subsidy for private schools and to families who are already well off. This insidious process is disguised and whitewashed by using terms like "freedom of choice" when in fact rich people always have the choice of where to send their kids while vouchers take away the "choice" of impoverished students to have a quality education. Want to help public education? This is not the way to do it. Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Paul Stenquist Sent: April 7, 2013 4/7/13 To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: Interspersed... On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really fit the definition of a public school. I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in that federal student loans have always been available at religiously affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public schools." Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on the part of the student. In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson wrote: It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are partially funded by taxpayer money. The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an education. I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. -p On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I've never seen a United States public school that has religious affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. Paul via phone Except in parts of the South and Midwest. stan On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W wrote: On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. And I studied, trained and worked in the US, and I am not dumb, am I PDMLer Friends? So there must be something good going here in our schools, as I retired as an Advisor from one of the largest conglomerates in the world. Friends, things are not as bad as we think with the schooling / university system. Just bring back all the industries farmed out to China - & with it all the basic mental and motor skills will return to America. I say this after working with (3) of the biggest automobile manufacturers, and attending hundreds of interviews to recruit Graduate Trainees. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: > Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. > Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. > That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- > http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ > No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
If anyone wants to see the train wreck in progress: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=415446278548602&set=a.200704680022764.45763.188430521250180&type=1&theater On 8 April 2013 21:26, Rob Studdert wrote: > On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: >> Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. >> Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. >> That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a >> video:- >> http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ >> No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. > > That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which > relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to > solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most > interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of > the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find > the results stunning frankly. > > The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? > > > -- > Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) > Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours > Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 8 Apr 2013, at 11:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: > Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. > Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. > That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- > http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ When I was student my mates and I wound up some poor middle-aged git in a pub once by telling him that none of us could read, even though we were students, because nowadays (it was about 1975) we had computers to do our reading for us. The poor old boy nearly died of apoplexy. So don't you go believing everything people tell you. Nearly all of us could read. > No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. > And I studied, trained and worked in the US, and I am not dumb, am I > PDMLer Friends? So there must be something good going here in our > schools, as I retired as an Advisor from one of the largest > conglomerates in the world. > Friends, things are not as bad as we think with the schooling / > university system. Just bring back all the industries farmed out to > China - & with it all the basic mental and motor skills will return to > America. Those jobs are never coming back to the advanced economies. Those jobs will also disappear from China when the robots and 3D printers are cheaper than the workers, then the production plants will return, much, much smaller, and more and more of them, to our countries so that we take out the distribution and storage costs involved in moving vast amounts of parts and finished goods around the world. If I were the Emperor of China I'd be cornering the market in raw materials, minerals and so on, by building a new empire in Africa. That way I won't have to educate the mass of my people, which is what's needed for the new economy of ideas, design and licensing - think ARM, Apple, etc - and where the west still has a lead. For now. > I say this after working with (3) of the biggest automobile > manufacturers, and attending hundreds of interviews to recruit > Graduate Trainees. > Regards.i > Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
7 -Messaggio originale- From: Rob Studdert Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:26 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3272 / Database dei virus: 3162/6231 - Data di rilascio: 07/04/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Half marks. You didn't show your work. :) On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: > 7 > > -Messaggio originale- From: Rob Studdert > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:26 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested > > > On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: >> >> Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. >> Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. >> That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a >> video:- >> >> http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ >> No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. > > > That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which > relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to > solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most > interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of > the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find > the results stunning frankly. > > The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? > > > -- > Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) > Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours > Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > > > - > Nessun virus nel messaggio. > Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com > Versione: 2013.0.3272 / Database dei virus: 3162/6231 - Data di rilascio: > 07/04/2013 > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
6 -0 +1 =7 ;-) -Messaggio originale- From: Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:13 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested Half marks. You didn't show your work. :) On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: 7 -Messaggio originale- From: Rob Studdert Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:26 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3272 / Database dei virus: 3162/6231 - Data di rilascio: 07/04/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3272 / Database dei virus: 3162/6231 - Data di rilascio: 07/04/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Bob, I bet you 100 bucks that your prophecy WILL COME TRUE. At what point of time I can't say. But the things you forecast or say WILL HAPPEN. But right now I want to live a little longer to see man on Mars. God Bless. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 8/4/13, Bipin Gupta, discombobulated, unleashed: >Hey, we have drifted Mark! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 4/8/2013 1:56 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote: Friends, things are not as bad as we think with the schooling / university system. As of last year a new basic school program in math is being introduced in some place in US of A (probably wider than I might think). It is called "no child left behind". I humbly suggest you have a look. I have witnessed this program myself very first hand while visiting our friends in MD last September. The most ironic thing (as this program can only produce fully debilitated mathematically individuals) was that the space shuttle program has been at its final stage at the same time - the distribution of the space ships between various memorial locations - how sadly befitting. Here is it pretty much the same. Last year we barely avoided some major setback, such as replacement of Euclidean geometry by our own sets of home brewed axioms based on shape of rectangle (TV screen, computer screen, iPhone, you name it)... Cheers... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Rob Studdert On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to Google "order of operations" to be sure I got the answer right. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Yeah, that's what I got. From: "Dario Bonazza" 7 -Messaggio originale- From: Rob Studdert Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:26 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested On 8 April 2013 20:56, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hey, we have drifted - we are now on the topic of schools & .. Hope you folks won't be upset if I quote what some guys told me here. That the Public School boys need a calculator to add 10 + 5. Here is a video:- http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/02/03/sad-video-high-school-students-cant-answer-basic-questions/ No wonder Chinese students excel in the US. That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms wrote: > Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? In solving electronics engineering problems this sort of combination of operators wouldn't be that uncommon. > It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to > Google "order of operations" to be sure I got the answer right. After watching that FB thread I feel that I'm in a privileged position that my secondary schooling left me with an indelible memory of order of operations (and we had no swanky acronyms, we just had to remember it like times tables) plus I can solve trig problems so long as I have a table or calculator handy and logs are no mystery. I can't help thinking that if order of operations in second class mechanical maths is a problem what change would anyone have had with basic algebra? -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Quoting Rob Studdert : On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms wrote: Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? In solving electronics engineering problems this sort of combination of operators wouldn't be that uncommon. It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to Google "order of operations" to be sure I got the answer right. After watching that FB thread I feel that I'm in a privileged position that my secondary schooling left me with an indelible memory of order of operations (and we had no swanky acronyms, we just had to remember it like times tables) plus I can solve trig problems so long as I have a table or calculator handy and logs are no mystery. I can't help thinking that if order of operations in second class mechanical maths is a problem what change would anyone have had with basic algebra? Yeah, I'm with John here. In my ancient schooldays, equations like this would be presented with parentheses to define the order of operations, as in: 6-(1x0)+(2/2) = 7 I'm not sure when the parentheses idea was dropped. -- Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Different answer with reverse polish notation... On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: > On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms wrote: > >> Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? > > In solving electronics engineering problems this sort of combination > of operators wouldn't be that uncommon. > >> It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to >> Google "order of operations" to be sure I got the answer right. > > After watching that FB thread I feel that I'm in a privileged position > that my secondary schooling left me with an indelible memory of order > of operations (and we had no swanky acronyms, we just had to remember > it like times tables) plus I can solve trig problems so long as I have > a table or calculator handy and logs are no mystery. I can't help > thinking that if order of operations in second class mechanical maths > is a problem what change would anyone have had with basic algebra? > > -- > Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) > Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours > Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 8, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Brian Walters wrote: > Quoting Rob Studdert : > >> On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms wrote: >> >>> Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? >> >> In solving electronics engineering problems this sort of combination >> of operators wouldn't be that uncommon. >> >>> It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to >>> Google "order of operations" to be sure I got the answer right. >> >> After watching that FB thread I feel that I'm in a privileged position >> that my secondary schooling left me with an indelible memory of order >> of operations (and we had no swanky acronyms, we just had to remember >> it like times tables) plus I can solve trig problems so long as I have >> a table or calculator handy and logs are no mystery. I can't help >> thinking that if order of operations in second class mechanical maths >> is a problem what change would anyone have had with basic algebra? > > > > Yeah, I'm with John here. In my ancient schooldays, equations like this > would be presented with parentheses to define the order of operations, as in: > > 6-(1x0)+(2/2) = 7 > > I'm not sure when the parentheses idea was dropped. I suspect the parenthesis were dropped on the Facebook problems to create "gotcha" posts. I too was accustomed to parenthetically ordered operations. I did remember that calculations must be performed in an order that's not linear, and that multiplication and division take precedence, but the post was meant to embarrass the unthinking masses rather than accurately test math skills. > > > -- > Cheers > > Brian > > ++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 9 April 2013 08:59, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > I suspect the parenthesis were dropped on the Facebook problems to create > "gotcha" posts. I too was accustomed to parenthetically ordered operations. I > did remember that calculations must be performed in an order that's not > linear, and that multiplication and division take precedence, but the post > was meant to embarrass the unthinking masses rather than accurately test math > skills. OK, in my school day (only around 30 years ago) parenthesis in math were only applied in the case where the operational order would otherwise have been ambiguous, for instance in the case where an exponent was the function of a lower order operation etc. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 2013-04-08 19:58, Rob Studdert wrote: OK, in my school day (only around 30 years ago) parenthesis in math were only applied in the case where the operational order would otherwise have been ambiguous [...] Same here. -- Doug "Lefty" Franklin NutDriver Racing http://NutDriver.org Facebook "NutDriver Racing" Sponsored by Murphy -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
San Francisco recently passed a law that prohibits nudity in the city (this was approved by voters). I think it was appropriate (I forget where I read this or when, but googling should turn it up -- probably last November). Encouraging alternative life styles is one thing, but when children are going to be around, tourists, etc., well, there is no reason to be blatantly offensive. So SF has clean up its act. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/6/2013 5:56:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, danmaty...@gmail.com writes: Your reference to San Francisco is a good case in point. If you go to the tourist areas, or the business areas, of the city, you will not see the kind of display that you witnessed. Like many of our cities, and many European cities, like Copenhagen or Amsterdam, there are areas where alternative life styles are not only tolerated, but actually encouraged. If one doesn't want to see nudity, pot, or other sights that distress or offend you, one avoids those areas. There are plenty of places in the US where pervasive wholesomeness is almost overwhelming. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
