RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Doug wrote: European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. This is very far from the truth - at least very inacurate. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic class system or class division between those who own land, machines, factories, buildings (capital) etc. on one side - and those who owns nothing but their own hands (the ability to work) on the other side - the working class. Socialism is a working class ideology, whith the objective, that the working class must seize power - in order to create - at first - working class dictatorship, which is later to be replaced by a communist system - a classless society, where everything is shared by everybody. Unfortunately a truely communist society has never yet been achieved anywhere. Although many have tried. It seems that the human nature (egoism) is causing the socialist sytsems to suffer from all kinds of corruption, missuse of power etc. leading to disasterous systems of state-capitalism (USSR, CHINA), that is often less human than a modern capitalic system - the capitalistic democracy. Of course capitalism has it's root in the feudal system - so there is a connection - the feudal system was a class divieded system as well. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic system. Communism has it's roots in socialism. The feudal division was enforced by the use of violence. The capitalistic class divison is enforced by primarily economics and - in democarcies - also by political power. Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af P. J. Alling Sendt: 27. september 2006 03:51 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) The US hasn't had rigid class lines outside of the Northeast in the last century or so. US divisions were more between nativists and immigrants, and regional ties, (North vs. South, East vs. West). Even Black vs White had all classes within each group. European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. Douglas Newman wrote: --- Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's certainly not true in the US. US politics are radically different than any other industrialized country. The US doesn't even have a substantial organized socialist party (in most other industrialized countries, it's the biggest or second-biggest one). Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/456 - Release Date: 09/25/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.10/459 - Release Date: 09/29/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
BTW: Capitalism has - until now - been the most successfull economical/political system. It has provided us with lots of food, maschines, medicine etc. This is natures own system - the survival of the fitest. Unfortnalty this system is - like nature- driven by profit - by the greed of the fitest (us). IMO it will inevitably lead the destruction of nature - the destruction of natures resources - in the end to the destruction of the planet. It works like this: He/she who has commercial success gets rich. He/she who is rich has the power to act, to make decisions, to influence the political powers etc. etc. In a capitalistic system money rules - the rich people rules. But unfortunately the commercially right decisions are not always the best decisions. A capitalistic system will lead to global heating (!), pollution, destruction of natures resources etc. etc. - and in the end - to the destruction of the planet and the human race. IMO this system will eventually have to be replaced by better system. A sytem where common sence, respect for nature, for the planet, for all beings, replaces profit (greed) as the bottom line. Until then I'll support a system based on democracy - a democracy that takes the side of loosers on this planet: Nature, the week people, the poor people. That has got to be the social democrats - at present. Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 30. september 2006 16:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) Doug wrote: European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. This is very far from the truth - at least very inacurate. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic class system or class division between those who own land, machines, factories, buildings (capital) etc. on one side - and those who owns nothing but their own hands (the ability to work) on the other side - the working class. Socialism is a working class ideology, whith the objective, that the working class must seize power - in order to create - at first - working class dictatorship, which is later to be replaced by a communist system - a classless society, where everything is shared by everybody. Unfortunately a truely communist society has never yet been achieved anywhere. Although many have tried. It seems that the human nature (egoism) is causing the socialist sytsems to suffer from all kinds of corruption, missuse of power etc. leading to disasterous systems of state-capitalism (USSR, CHINA), that is often less human than a modern capitalic system - the capitalistic democracy. Of course capitalism has it's root in the feudal system - so there is a connection - the feudal system was a class divieded system as well. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic system. Communism has it's roots in socialism. The feudal division was enforced by the use of violence. The capitalistic class divison is enforced by primarily economics and - in democarcies - also by political power. Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af P. J. Alling Sendt: 27. september 2006 03:51 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) The US hasn't had rigid class lines outside of the Northeast in the last century or so. US divisions were more between nativists and immigrants, and regional ties, (North vs. South, East vs. West). Even Black vs White had all classes within each group. European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. Douglas Newman wrote: --- Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's certainly not true in the US. US politics are radically different than any other industrialized country. The US doesn't even have a substantial organized socialist party (in most other industrialized countries, it's the biggest or second-biggest one). Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/456 - Release Date: 09/25/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.10/459 - Release Date: 09/29/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.10/459 - Release Date: 09/29/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Jens, Thanks for the post. My hope is that politics and democracy will curb the excesses of capitalism. Many people in the US are concerned about the same social issues that you are. Many of them are capitalists and stockholders in public companies. Many of the companies are responding to stockholder's concerns about social responsibility. Regards, Bob S. On 9/30/06, Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW: Capitalism has - until now - been the most successfull economical/political system. It has provided us with lots of food, maschines, medicine etc. This is natures own system - the survival of the fitest. Unfortnalty this system is - like nature- driven by profit - by the greed of the fitest (us). IMO it will inevitably lead the destruction of nature - the destruction of natures resources - in the end to the destruction of the planet. It works like this: He/she who has commercial success gets rich. He/she who is rich has the power to act, to make decisions, to influence the political powers etc. etc. In a capitalistic system money rules - the rich people rules. But unfortunately the commercially right decisions are not always the best decisions. A capitalistic system will lead to global heating (!), pollution, destruction of natures resources etc. etc. - and in the end - to the destruction of the planet and the human race. IMO this system will eventually have to be replaced by better system. A sytem where common sence, respect for nature, for the planet, for all beings, replaces profit (greed) as the bottom line. Until then I'll support a system based on democracy - a democracy that takes the side of loosers on this planet: Nature, the week people, the poor people. That has got to be the social democrats - at present. Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 30. september 2006 16:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) Doug wrote: European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. This is very far from the truth - at least very inacurate. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic class system or class division between those who own land, machines, factories, buildings (capital) etc. on one side - and those who owns nothing but their own hands (the ability to work) on the other side - the working class. Socialism is a working class ideology, whith the objective, that the working class must seize power - in order to create - at first - working class dictatorship, which is later to be replaced by a communist system - a classless society, where everything is shared by everybody. Unfortunately a truely communist society has never yet been achieved anywhere. Although many have tried. It seems that the human nature (egoism) is causing the socialist sytsems to suffer from all kinds of corruption, missuse of power etc. leading to disasterous systems of state-capitalism (USSR, CHINA), that is often less human than a modern capitalic system - the capitalistic democracy. Of course capitalism has it's root in the feudal system - so there is a connection - the feudal system was a class divieded system as well. Socialism has it's roots in the capitalistic system. Communism has it's roots in socialism. The feudal division was enforced by the use of violence. The capitalistic class divison is enforced by primarily economics and - in democarcies - also by political power. Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af P. J. Alling Sendt: 27. september 2006 03:51 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) The US hasn't had rigid class lines outside of the Northeast in the last century or so. US divisions were more between nativists and immigrants, and regional ties, (North vs. South, East vs. West). Even Black vs White had all classes within each group. European Socialism has it's roots in the rigid class lines of the Feudal system. Douglas Newman wrote: --- Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's certainly not true in the US. US politics are radically different than any other industrialized country. The US doesn't even have a substantial organized socialist party (in most other industrialized countries, it's the biggest or second-biggest one). Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
AFG needs body language to be understood. If you can understand it in print, it's not AFG. QED. Did you know Davy Crockett had three ears? From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/09/29 Fri AM 12:48:12 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) I wouldn't know, how can you tell, in print that is... mike wilson wrote: Not authentic Frontier Gibberish, though. P. J. Alling wrote: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/28/06, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your mother wears army boots. Only at the shooting range, during target practice... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/28/06, Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toronto drivers are idiots? Nah. I mean, they are, but the nice lady who hit me merely had a moment of inattention - could have happened at any place. cheers, frank (who so far has gotten enough money from insurance to buy a replacement bike - and that's it) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/28/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! Nah, that's got nothing to do with it, Keith. Besides (hard to believe) it's been a year now! The accident was Oct 6, 2005. In all seriousness, I have nothing against cars. Well, not much, anyway. In fact, I rather appreciate them from time to time. One day, if I ever make enough money, I'd love to buy an old English sports car to take out on lovely sunny summer afternoons. My all time fave would be the Austin Healey Bugeye (Frogeye to you Brits) Sprite. I'd also like a Mazda Miata as a backup, for when the Sprite's in the shop (or as a friend of mine who used to own a Big Healey called it: Healey Camp). I actually go places from time to time in cars owned by friends and relatives. What I'm against the the needless use of cars. Daily commutes when transit's available. Those 5 block drives to the corner store to buy beer. We have to understand that cars are bad for the environment. Because each individual car doesn't appear to do much harm, it's all to easy to say, Oh well, this one little trip won't make a difference. - but when hundreds of millions of drivers each day say that, the affects are huge. Anyway, I don't mean to prosteletyze (but I guess I am). I'm not anti-car, I'm pro alternative transportation (although perhaps we should stop thinking of walking, mass transit and cycling as alternatives - maybe motor vehicles should be the alternatives). cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On Sep 29, 2006, at 11:10 AM, frank theriault wrote: What I'm against the the needless use of cars. Daily commutes when transit's available. Those 5 block drives to the corner store to buy beer. We have to understand that cars are bad for the environment. Because each individual car doesn't appear to do much harm, it's all to easy to say, Oh well, this one little trip won't make a difference. - but when hundreds of millions of drivers each day say that, the affects are huge. Unfortunately, in many parts of the USA there is no mass transit. The town I live in has no bus service and no passenger train service, so if I go anywhere that's not in walking distance it has to be by car. It was very short sighted for this country not to install mass transit in the past, and now they say it is too expensive to build now. One thing I love about going to Europe is being able to go most places by train. I don't hate cars, but it is hard to really see things when you must pay attention to the road and the idiot drivers who are everywhere. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
frank theriault wrote: On 9/28/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! Nah, that's got nothing to do with it, Keith. Besides (hard to believe) it's been a year now! The accident was Oct 6, 2005. Amazing! I hope you're all mended by now. In all seriousness, I have nothing against cars. Well, not much, anyway. In fact, I rather appreciate them from time to time. One day, if I ever make enough money, I'd love to buy an old English sports car to take out on lovely sunny summer afternoons. My all time fave would be the Austin Healey Bugeye (Frogeye to you Brits) Sprite. Back when I was piloting a Triumph TR-3 around (1957 or so) the Sprite first came out. Our sports car club met at an A.H. dealership in town. I remember that first delivery, that the head mechanic bought on the spot. It was the *members* that were bug-eyed that night! Yeah, I'd always sort of wanted one of those too... I'd also like a Mazda Miata as a backup, for when the Sprite's in the shop (or as a friend of mine who used to own a Big Healey called it: Healey Camp). I actually go places from time to time in cars owned by friends and relatives. What I'm against the the needless use of cars. Daily commutes when transit's available. Those 5 block drives to the corner store to buy beer. Well, you're right there! I have a small Mom Pop store 4 blocks away. I have walked it many times, but not enough, I'll admit. A lot of the problem, with me at least, is that my calendar is way too full to take the time for errands that would take 8-10 minutes by car, but over 30 minutes by bike. Not to mention the aggressive drivers here that will actually try to run a two-wheeler off the road if you're thought to be an impediment to their trip to wherever... I've been moved over when I was on a big motorcycle that is quite maneuverable and very visible... Still, close calls a-plenty. We have to understand that cars are bad for the environment. Because each individual car doesn't appear to do much harm, it's all to easy to say, Oh well, this one little trip won't make a difference. - but when hundreds of millions of drivers each day say that, the affects are huge. Anyway, I don't mean to prosteletyze (but I guess I am). I'm not anti-car, I'm pro alternative transportation (although perhaps we should stop thinking of walking, mass transit and cycling as alternatives - maybe motor vehicles should be the alternatives). cheers, frank A fine answer, Frank. Reasonable and right. For you. All depends on where you live and your life style, doesn't it? If you happen to live in a city/community that has excellent public transportation, if you're not married or have a steady...etc. There are especially times in inclement weather (you certainly know about that!) that one needs covered transportation. For convenience, if not for your health! Yes, there are alternatives in a city with good transportation. Unquestionably. A blown apart city like Los Angeles, with good distances between everything, requires you either grossly restructure your life to avoid the need to drive an IC-engined vehicle. Our public transportation covers the more popular corridors pretty well. But, many of the places you (I) want to go are well off that/those corridors... I think I could function very well in London or a London-styled city. Public transportation there is pure joy to a Los Angelean! grin Thanks for the words... keith whaley -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Where I live there was once lots of Mass Transit. You can still trace the old interurban and some of the local trolley lines, some have been made into linear parks. Unless you have a certain level of population density and no other alternatives they just aren't economically viable. The NY, HN H Railroad bought up every trolley line between NY and Boston around the turn of the last century and destroyed itself as a viable economic entity in the process. The trolley building boom happened everywhere on the East Coast and elsewhere where there were sizable urban populations in the US. Only a few survived. If you look into it you'll probably find that there were even trolley lines where you live. Cities and larger towns would get their streets paved by letting the trolley company put in lines and requiring them to pave the road around the right of way. The rights of way reverted to the owners of the land and cities, when the companies went bust as most did, (they regularly went bust before the advent of cars, and the municipality would take over the lines within their jurisdiction, after cars became affordable and the bicycle clubs demanded and got good roads the trolleys didn't stand a chance, and neither did the bicyclists). The tracks either were left to rust buried under pavement or pulled up for scrap over the last 100 years. Bob Shell wrote: On Sep 29, 2006, at 11:10 AM, frank theriault wrote: What I'm against the the needless use of cars. Daily commutes when transit's available. Those 5 block drives to the corner store to buy beer. We have to understand that cars are bad for the environment. Because each individual car doesn't appear to do much harm, it's all to easy to say, Oh well, this one little trip won't make a difference. - but when hundreds of millions of drivers each day say that, the affects are huge. Unfortunately, in many parts of the USA there is no mass transit. The town I live in has no bus service and no passenger train service, so if I go anywhere that's not in walking distance it has to be by car. It was very short sighted for this country not to install mass transit in the past, and now they say it is too expensive to build now. One thing I love about going to Europe is being able to go most places by train. I don't hate cars, but it is hard to really see things when you must pay attention to the road and the idiot drivers who are everywhere. Bob -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On Sep 29, 2006, at 1:32 PM, keith_w wrote: Back when I was piloting a Triumph TR-3 around (1957 or so) the Sprite first came out. Our sports car club met at an A.H. dealership in town. I remember that first delivery, that the head mechanic bought on the spot. It was the *members* that were bug-eyed that night! Yeah, I'd always sort of wanted one of those too... My sister still has one. She got it in the 70s and has kept it in good running condition ever since, even though she rarely drives it these days. It's British Racing Green, black leather seats. Fun little car. Occasionally I can talk her into letting me take it for a spin. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/29/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A fine answer, Frank. Reasonable and right. For you. All depends on where you live and your life style, doesn't it? It surely does. If you happen to live in a city/community that has excellent public transportation, if you're not married or have a steady...etc. There are especially times in inclement weather (you certainly know about that!) that one needs covered transportation. For convenience, if not for your health! You are correct, sir! Yes, there are alternatives in a city with good transportation. Unquestionably. A blown apart city like Los Angeles, with good distances between everything, requires you either grossly restructure your life to avoid the need to drive an IC-engined vehicle. Our public transportation covers the more popular corridors pretty well. But, many of the places you (I) want to go are well off that/those corridors... Agreed. I think I could function very well in London or a London-styled city. Public transportation there is pure joy to a Los Angelean! grin I'm lucky in that I've lived in two large cities (Toronto and Montreal) that each have very good public transportation systems. I recognize that (a) not all urbanites are so lucky, and (b) living in a small town often means that a car is a daily necessity. Personally (and this isn't backed up by any empirical evidence that I know of), I think that nature has a great capacity to rid the air of toxins, so that in rural areas, for instance, motor vehicles have much less of an effect on the environment, as the trees (or whatever) aren't overwhelmed and can do their job of cleaning crap out of the air. However, in urban areas - which are overloaded with cars, and have much less green space to cleanse the air - nature is simply overwhelmed, and pollution happens. It sort of reaches a critical mass, and then not much can be done about it. Does that make sense? (I fear I'm not being very articulate or coherent...) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Frank RE rural areas ability to clean the environment, you are only very partially correct. The stuff that stays close to the ground will be less of an impact due to lower concentrations but once in the atmosphere it is in the only atmosphere we have. Oviously closer to the source the more concentrated the toxic but pcbs for example have been taken from samples in the high arctic where there was no local source. Most likely they came north from the centre of the universe :) One of the things I dislike about my new job is the distance I need to travel everyday (100 km round trip) and I live in the closest real town to work. Need to get into a car pool but so far my hours have not been as regular as co-workers. Of course there is also the fact that we do use toxic material at work hence the need to keep a gas mask handy. They are a bitch to photograph through. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Den 29. sep. 2006 kl. 22.09 skrev frank theriault: On 9/29/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A fine answer, Frank. Reasonable and right. For you. All depends on where you live and your life style, doesn't it? It surely does. If you happen to live in a city/community that has excellent public transportation, if you're not married or have a steady...etc. There are especially times in inclement weather (you certainly know about that!) that one needs covered transportation. For convenience, if not for your health! You are correct, sir! Yes, there are alternatives in a city with good transportation. Unquestionably. A blown apart city like Los Angeles, with good distances between everything, requires you either grossly restructure your life to avoid the need to drive an IC-engined vehicle. Our public transportation covers the more popular corridors pretty well. But, many of the places you (I) want to go are well off that/those corridors... Agreed. I think I could function very well in London or a London-styled city. Public transportation there is pure joy to a Los Angelean! grin I'm lucky in that I've lived in two large cities (Toronto and Montreal) that each have very good public transportation systems. I recognize that (a) not all urbanites are so lucky, and (b) living in a small town often means that a car is a daily necessity. Personally (and this isn't backed up by any empirical evidence that I know of), I think that nature has a great capacity to rid the air of toxins, so that in rural areas, for instance, motor vehicles have much less of an effect on the environment, as the trees (or whatever) aren't overwhelmed and can do their job of cleaning crap out of the air. However, in urban areas - which are overloaded with cars, and have much less green space to cleanse the air - nature is simply overwhelmed, and pollution happens. It sort of reaches a critical mass, and then not much can be done about it. Does that make sense? (I fear I'm not being very articulate or coherent...) It does, to some degree, but the situation is a little more complicated. Oslo is not very large, it´s got a lot of trees, but it is placed in a valley and in cold still winter weather the warm polluted air is locked under a lid of cold air so it does not get out. Some days in winter we have the worst air in Europe. I think the real problem is that people don´t live in the area they work. DagT http://dag.foto.no Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
frank theriault wrote: [...] However, in urban areas - which are overloaded with cars, and have much less green space to cleanse the air - nature is simply overwhelmed, and pollution happens. It sort of reaches a critical mass, and then not much can be done about it. Does that make sense? (I fear I'm not being very articulate or coherent...) cheers, frank No doubt in my mind that you're right about that! keith -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Den 27. sep. 2006 kl. 23.05 skrev Cotty: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! Imponerende! .-) DagT http://dag.foto.no Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my house I'm judge *and* jury! Then what exactly would be the role of Dr. Lisa? curious, frank ps: I'm thinking maybe executioner? -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No beer. Please stop intimating that my friend is a liar. You have friends? -frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
frank theriault wrote: On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my house I'm judge *and* jury! Then what exactly would be the role of Dr. Lisa? Supreme court! ps: I'm thinking maybe executioner? That too. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
frank theriault wrote: On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No beer. Please stop intimating that my friend is a liar. You have friends? Heck no! (The person in question was a relative. Well, Lisa's relative, anyway.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
In a message dated 9/27/2006 5:09:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you know, the parade of ignorance displayed in this family of threads has been nothing short of appalling. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for letting your stupid, jingoistic nonsense escape your fingers. sincerely, doug === Tell us how you really feel, Doug. Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
In a message dated 9/27/2006 6:05:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's because most Democrats don't agree on what most Democrats would support. ;-) Bob === Good point. ;-) Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
In a message dated 9/27/2006 5:29:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, I think that the United Auto Workers were so successful in negotiating benefits for their membership in the '50's, '60's, and '70's that all the jobs have moved to cheaper labor markets off shore. Employment by the big 3 US auto makers is what? ...10% of what it once was. Regards, Bob S. == Yeah, that's an underlying problem for sure. American workers with a decent wage guaranteed benefits can't compete with foreign workers who will work for pennies with no benefits, i.e. foreign sweat shops. Workers unite! World-wide that is. Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Hmmm, maybe a gun thread would have been better, after all. Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/27/2006 5:29:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, I think that the United Auto Workers were so successful in negotiating benefits for their membership in the '50's, '60's, and '70's that all the jobs have moved to cheaper labor markets off shore. Employment by the big 3 US auto makers is what? ...10% of what it once was. Regards, Bob S. == Yeah, that's an underlying problem for sure. American workers with a decent wage guaranteed benefits can't compete with foreign workers who will work for pennies with no benefits, i.e. foreign sweat shops. Workers unite! World-wide that is. Marnie aka Doe ;-) Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) Yeah, that's an underlying problem for sure. American workers with a decent wage guaranteed benefits can't compete with foreign workers who will work for pennies with no benefits, i.e. foreign sweat shops. Workers unite! World-wide that is. Since you like to pick on Wal-Mart, I will point out to you that their policy is to only work with suppliers and manufacturers that pay a fair wage. They do not support sweat shops. OTOH, I do realize that North American consumers in general do support sweatshop labour, whether unwittingly or otherwise by insisting on, and shopping for the best price they can find. This consumer attitude is what keeps the sweat shops going. Those foriegn workers, btw, need to make some sort of income to stay alive too. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Naw, we'd be looking at them broken down in our driveways. -Adam Who's unimpressed with the reliability of Big-3 small cars. GM especially hasn't figured out that the fact that everything (now) works from the factory doesn't excuse the fact that it breaks down quickly. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
American cars outperform all the European and some of the Japnese makes in JD Power surveys of initial and long term quality. Mercury, for example, was number two to Toyota in three-year durability. Buick has been near the top for quite a few years. The big problem with American cars is that the makers can't offer as much for the money. That's due to health care and retirement costs. That situation rules out cost competitive small cars. Chrysler is going to build small cars in China. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Naw, we'd be looking at them broken down in our driveways. -Adam Who's unimpressed with the reliability of Big-3 small cars. GM especially hasn't figured out that the fact that everything (now) works from the factory doesn't excuse the fact that it breaks down quickly. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Neither Mercury nor Buick make small cars. I've never had any issues with the larger Big-3 products, at least not the more modern stuff. It's the small stuff that's either poorly engineered crap or simply poorly built variants of German engineering (See Chevy Cobalt, Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire, etc). Half of GM's problem is it designs cars people are uninterested in buying, the only intersting things to hit production from GM in the last 5 years are Pontiac variants of German (Solstice) and Australian (GTO) designs, and the latter was poorly adapted (The styling was so boring,e specially compared to the Holden version). -Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: American cars outperform all the European and some of the Japnese makes in JD Power surveys of initial and long term quality. Mercury, for example, was number two to Toyota in three-year durability. Buick has been near the top for quite a few years. The big problem with American cars is that the makers can't offer as much for the money. That's due to health care and retirement costs. That situation rules out cost competitive small cars. Chrysler is going to build small cars in China. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Naw, we'd be looking at them broken down in our driveways. -Adam Who's unimpressed with the reliability of Big-3 small cars. GM especially hasn't figured out that the fact that everything (now) works from the factory doesn't excuse the fact that it breaks down quickly. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Paul -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Not authentic Frontier Gibberish, though. P. J. Alling wrote: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Gonz wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Douglas Newman Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) . Most American politicians don't even support legalizing cannabis for medical/theraputic purposes, let alone full legalization of soft drugs, let alone total drugs legalization. I'm a radical left-winger by US standards and even I don't support it. There is a somewhat radical idea that if you decriminalize an activity, the cost to society is actually lower. Criminal activity begets criminal activity. That is true up to a point, then you have anarchy, and the cost is very high. Are you confusing anarchy with chaos? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) American cars outperform all the European and some of the Japnese makes in JD Power surveys of initial and long term quality. Mercury, for example, was number two to Toyota in three-year durability. Buick has been near the top for quite a few years. The big problem with American cars is that the makers can't offer as much for the money. That's due to health care and retirement costs. That situation rules out cost competitive small cars. Chrysler is going to build small cars in China. Three years isn't a very long time when one is discussing a $25,000 dollar or more investment. I've never trusted the JD Power surveys because they seem to stop looking at the vehicles at about the same time that they become unreliable, and don't take into account the fact that a lot of people treat their car brands as a religion, and so are going to be happy with their brand choice no matter how crappy it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Mark Roberts wrote: Scott Loveless wrote: On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? No. He was sitting at my kitchen table and we were talking about people he knew in school. Close enough! In my house I'm judge *and* jury! That's what Lisa _lets_ you think. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Maybe. But we'd have sore feet :-) -- Original message -- From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
--- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They do not support sweat shops. That statement depends on two things. First, it depends on what you call a sweat shop. Many people simply take this to mean any plant which operates on labor rules not as strict as in the US, Europe, or other highly-industrialized - which basically means that anything made in China, Vietnam, etc. is sweat shop to these people. Second, it depends on whether one believes the company in question. Wal-Mart attackers tend to assume that they must be lying, while their defenders tend to assume that they must be telling the truth. Personally, I don't know whether they're lying or telling the truth. But it's all a moot point if one's definition of sweat shop is what I outlined above. North American consumers in general do support sweatshop labour, whether unwittingly or otherwise by insisting on, and shopping for the best price they can find. Er, and which company promises Always Low Prices ;-)? (One could argue that they're forced to by the market - or, one could argue that they came up with the idea and conditioned the market to demand it.) Those foriegn workers, btw, need to make some sort of income to stay alive too. NOW you've gotten to the core of why I, personally, am moderately pro-globalization. (With reservations, of course. It has to be done right.) The fact is, export trade makes poor countries richer! Japan was poor once; now they're rich. Same for Taiwan. And South Korea. And the same will happen in China and all the other Asian countries that are rapidly industrializing today. Their industrialization may not be pretty - but then, no country's has ever been. Like sausages, if you want to enjoy industrialized economies, you probably shouldn't watch them being made. New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Try one of these and get a sore arse instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Utility_bicycle.jpg -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 September 2006 21:51 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) Maybe. But we'd have sore feet :-) -- Original message -- From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
frank theriault wrote: On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! keith -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
keith_w wrote: frank theriault wrote: On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! keith Toronto drivers are idiots? -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! keith Toronto drivers are idiots? This is quite an interesting read http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/gorz.html I love driving cars and I love riding bikes, but bikes are better for many, many things, particularly when there are so many cars around. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Bob W wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) Why IS that, Frank? Other than the fact that one recently laid you up fairly well, that is! keith Toronto drivers are idiots? This is quite an interesting read http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/gorz.html I love driving cars and I love riding bikes, but bikes are better for many, many things, particularly when there are so many cars around. Bob Now if we could just get the damned couriers off the damned sidewalks and obeying traffic laws (like which way 1 way streets go). Between them and the cabbies, it's dangerous to be a pedestrian here. -Adam Who misses his bike. But can't ride as it screws up his ankle. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Dyslexics of the world untie. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/28/2006 12:28:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marnie, A heck of a lot of those jobs went to Oakville, Ontario. Many of the rest are elsewhere in the US (Toyota, BMW and Honda all have large factories in the US and Canada, most cars sold in the US today are built in North America). In both cases the workers are more productive for less cost, but still get plenty of benefits, albeit less than the ones in UAW factories in the US. -Adam = Maybe those particular jobs, others no. Workers of the world unite!!! Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
I wouldn't know, how can you tell, in print that is... mike wilson wrote: Not authentic Frontier Gibberish, though. P. J. Alling wrote: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Your mother wears army boots. frank theriault wrote: On 9/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all the world's auto workers were UAW members, we'd all be driving $50,000 subcompacts. Be careful what you wish for. Maybe if cars started at $50,000, and gas cost the same in the US as it does in Europe, we'd all breathe a bit easier. cheers, frank the bike guy (who never shies away from a chance to slag cars LO) -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
In a message dated 9/28/2006 5:30:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dyslexics of the world untie. = Taht too. Marnie aka Doe :-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
I think you guys are getting too domestic for an international list. Imagine if Pål, DagT, Tim, Toralf and I went on like that about Norwegian domestic politics. It would be a much more interesting discussion, of course, but only to us. Thanks Jostein On 9/27/06, Douglas Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note I support Socialized Medicine, not National Health Insurance. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Socialized medicine I take to mean a system like the UK's, where the whole thing is government-owned (whether it is controlled centrally or locally). By national (or state) health insurance, I simply mean government-provided insurance that pays for people to go to private hospitals, doctors, etc. (like the American Medicare system, but for everyone, not just senior citizens). I really should have said state or government health insurance, not national. But either way, both are way, way outside the Democratic mainstream. Most Democrats would simply favor strengthening the private insurance system so that more people have insurance. In other words, they support minor tweaking of the current system so that marginally more people have insurance, but nothing more. Anything more radical would be a political liability. So I would still say that where you veer right, you'd be right at home as a Republican, but where you veer left, you'd be way left of the American political mainstream. Entirely apart from healthcare, legalizing hard drugs in the US would be only marginally more politically popular as outlawing Christianity, and no self-respecting politician would ever dare suggest such a thing. Most American politicians don't even support legalizing cannabis for medical/theraputic purposes, let alone full legalization of soft drugs, let alone total drugs legalization. I'm a radical left-winger by US standards and even I don't support it. New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
From Paul Stenquist: Only the truly naive believe the stereotypes. MARK!!! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
In a message dated 9/26/2006 7:51:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank Senator McCarthy for that one. William Robb === And quite a few others since. Smoke and mirrors -- disinformation and misinformation -- is quite active in the US. Now people who should support unions, working people who need them, like underpaid and non-healthcared Wal-Mart workers for example, don't. Unions helped improve things for people for decades, now they are perceived as evil by many. I am constantly amazed at how well things can be twisted by a cunning few. Oh, well, this is politics and I do believe this is a camera/photography list. Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Just to make co-workers look fat ;-) -Adam (Yeah, it does work the other way too) Kenneth Waller wrote: Yeah but do you use the slimming filter? Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic) Paul Crovella wrote: Adam Maas wrote: I'm hardly a Republican (hell, I'm not even American). Well I'll tell ya, you'd fit right in! Hmm I'm socially liberal, support socialized medicine and education, vote for the NDP on a regular basis (Canada's socialist party), opposed the (so-called) War on Drugs (up to and including supporting legalization of hard drugs), think peacekeeping is a good idea, support strong environmental regulation, am seriously in favour of (relatively) free immigration et al. On the other hand, I think the 2nd Ammendment guarantees the First (And wish we had that guarantee here in Canada), am something of a hawk on National Defence and a skeptic on some Global Warming issues (The human contribution to it and the actual results of it, not whether or not it's occuring), but the latter is mostly due to historical data (It was notably warmer on earth 1000 years ago). Oh, and with a couple exceptions (notably healthcare and education), I generally think that government solutions cause more problems than they solve, but that's more a case of inherent bureaucratic empire building tahn anything else. In other words, I'm a Tory/NDP swing voter, depending on the issues at hand. By US standards that would make me a moderate democrat, who might swing republican depending on the issues. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists) === And quite a few others since. Smoke and mirrors -- disinformation and misinformation -- is quite active in the US. Now people who should support unions, working people who need them, like underpaid and non-healthcared Wal-Mart workers for example, don't. Unions helped improve things for people for decades, now they are perceived as evil by many. Don't knock Wal-Mart. They are one of the better retail sector employees. I don't have Wal-Mart USA numbers, but I expect they are similar to Wal-Mart Canada, in that they average about $5000.00/year profit per associate, or somewhere in the range of 35%. They don't have a lot of room to give huge raises out. Wal-mart isn't the evil company that it is fashionable to meake them out to be. I was a Wa-Mart associate for just short of 9 years, and can't really think of anything bad to say about them. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
In a message dated 9/26/2006 9:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But either way, both are way, way outside the Democratic mainstream. Most Democrats would simply favor strengthening the private insurance system so that more people have insurance. In other words, they support minor tweaking of the current system so that marginally more people have insurance, but nothing more. Anything more radical would be a political liability. === I don't agree with your assessment of what most Democrats would support. Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
It could be true, but I don't think I'll really believe that unless there's a corroborating witness, sounds too much like an urban legend to me. My father actually went to school with WFB at Yale. From what he told me Buckley's views on drugs have evolved quite a bit since that time. Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
P. J. Alling wrote: Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) It could be true, but I don't think I'll really believe that unless there's a corroborating witnesse. I got that story first person - from the person who bought the LSD! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Adam Maas wrote: William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: keith_w Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic) Why is it always the intelligent people who are socialists? - Alan Bennett Bob Actually, it isn't, is it. The Socialists tend to be those who remain immersed in or at least associated with one or more Universities for a large part of their lives. Why IS that? The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? William Robb The more time one tends to be in Academia, the more likely one will become a Utopian of whatever bent is politically fashionable. -Adam Thank you, Adam. More concisely spoken than what I offered. Yes. My point exactly. keith -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. keith -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Paul Crovella wrote: Republican rhetoric cracks me up. Frightened of higher education and peer-reviewed research they attack it for not following their own political fashion. Two facts not in evidence. Republican rhetoric and Frightened of higher education are not demonstrated as being pertinent or even part of the topic, and are therefore without meaning. keith whaley The more time one tends to be in Academia, the more likely one will become a Utopian of whatever bent is politically fashionable. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: keith_w Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic) Why is it always the intelligent people who are socialists? - Alan Bennett Bob Actually, it isn't, is it. The Socialists tend to be those who remain immersed in or at least associated with one or more Universities for a large part of their lives. Why IS that? The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? William Robb No. Not the more educated. Enhanced education and the time spent in University are mutually exclusive terms. Prolonging your time in school does not ipso facto guarantee you a weightier brain or more lucid ideas. The longer an otherwise intelligent person spends in University, the less likely s/he is to continue to think for him/herself, and the slide to more aberrant forms of socially acceptable behavior and thinking, as practiced in that institution of so-called learned folks, come to the fore. It's a whole philosophical bent and I don't think suitable for 'net discussion. You know, a sticky wicket... Like discussing hunting to cull the weak and ill... Just not done. Just my most humble opinion, sir. keith whaley -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree with your assessment of what most Democrats would support. I mean Democratic politicians. Democratic rank-and-file tend to be much more radical than Democratic politicians. I can't remember the last time I heard a Democratic candidate advocate a single-payer healthcare model. The Powers That Be declared this an obsolete concept a long time ago, I'm afraid. New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
On 9/27/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. I've always had problems with reality... -frank the pinko... -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Quoting frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 9/27/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. I've always had problems with reality... Good thing border guards don't Dave -frank the pinko... -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Equine Photography in York Region -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) DagT Den 27. sep. 2006 kl. 08.11 skrev Jostein Øksne: I think you guys are getting too domestic for an international list. Imagine if Pål, DagT, Tim, Toralf and I went on like that about Norwegian domestic politics. It would be a much more interesting discussion, of course, but only to us. Thanks Jostein On 9/27/06, Douglas Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note I support Socialized Medicine, not National Health Insurance. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Socialized medicine I take to mean a system like the UK's, where the whole thing is government-owned (whether it is controlled centrally or locally). By national (or state) health insurance, I simply mean government-provided insurance that pays for people to go to private hospitals, doctors, etc. (like the American Medicare system, but for everyone, not just senior citizens). I really should have said state or government health insurance, not national. But either way, both are way, way outside the Democratic mainstream. Most Democrats would simply favor strengthening the private insurance system so that more people have insurance. In other words, they support minor tweaking of the current system so that marginally more people have insurance, but nothing more. Anything more radical would be a political liability. So I would still say that where you veer right, you'd be right at home as a Republican, but where you veer left, you'd be way left of the American political mainstream. Entirely apart from healthcare, legalizing hard drugs in the US would be only marginally more politically popular as outlawing Christianity, and no self-respecting politician would ever dare suggest such a thing. Most American politicians don't even support legalizing cannabis for medical/theraputic purposes, let alone full legalization of soft drugs, let alone total drugs legalization. I'm a radical left-winger by US standards and even I don't support it. New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net DagT http://dag.foto.no Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Wanting to legalize all drugs is not really a left/right thing. It tends to be more of a liberal/authoritarian thing, or even just pragmatism. I'm in favour of legalizing drug use and supply under strict licence - an opinion I share with a lot of people whose other opinions I am diametrically opposed to. Taking J S Mill's liberalism as a starting point (as I do) can lead to some very different opinions, from what I consider very right wing conservatism, to what they consider very left-wing socialism. I'm at the sweet spot somewhere between, as you've probably all noticed from the fact that I'm always right about everything. :o) -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: 27 September 2006 12:23 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
On 9/27/06, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good thing border guards don't [have a problem with reality]. Did you notice how testy they got when I called them Capitalist Stormtroopers? cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 9/27/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! Oy! -knarf -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
On 9/27/06, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't knock Wal-Mart. They are one of the better retail sector employees. I don't have Wal-Mart USA numbers, but I expect they are similar to Wal-Mart Canada, in that they average about $5000.00/year profit per associate, or somewhere in the range of 35%. They don't have a lot of room to give huge raises out. Wal-mart isn't the evil company that it is fashionable to meake them out to be. I was a Wa-Mart associate for just short of 9 years, and can't really think of anything bad to say about them. Nothing pisses off a ~real~ socialist more than a successful business. ;-) -frank the socialist (real or not? you decide) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Douglas Newman Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) . Most American politicians don't even support legalizing cannabis for medical/theraputic purposes, let alone full legalization of soft drugs, let alone total drugs legalization. I'm a radical left-winger by US standards and even I don't support it. There is a somewhat radical idea that if you decriminalize an activity, the cost to society is actually lower. Criminal activity begets criminal activity. That is true up to a point, then you have anarchy, and the cost is very high. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
I wouldn't call the person who told you the story a liar, but a certain amount of embellishment is often the case. Sometimes to the extent that the original story is changed beyond recognition, or entirely made up. I've been told first person accounts of a Vietnam War story by two different people. The stories were nearly identical. They both couldn't be the same person, could they? Most probably they heard a good story and passed it on with themselves as the protagonist. I'm not saying thats the case here, but I'd take the story with a grain of salt until I have independent confirmation. It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) It could be true, but I don't think I'll really believe that unless there's a corroborating witnesse. I got that story first person - from the person who bought the LSD! -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
John Forbes wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John Depends on the Elsewhere. I'm far too libertarian for much of Western Europe. I'd do fine most anywhere in the Commonwealth though. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
P. J. Alling wrote: I wouldn't call the person who told you the story a liar, but a certain amount of embellishment is often the case. Sometimes to the extent that the original story is changed beyond recognition, or entirely made up. I've been told first person accounts of a Vietnam War story by two different people. The stories were nearly identical. They both couldn't be the same person, could they? Most probably they heard a good story and passed it on with themselves as the protagonist. I'm not saying thats the case here, but I'd take the story with a grain of salt until I have independent confirmation. It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? No. He was sitting at my kitchen table and we were talking about people he knew in school. -- Mark Roberts Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? No. He was sitting at my kitchen table and we were talking about people he knew in school. Close enough! -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
You have your own reality, I'd like to think it's pleasant there... frank theriault wrote: On 9/27/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. I've always had problems with reality... -frank the pinko... -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Scott Loveless wrote: On 9/27/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? No. He was sitting at my kitchen table and we were talking about people he knew in school. Close enough! In my house I'm judge *and* jury! -- Mark Roberts Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Where the hells a brickbat when I need one. Bob W wrote: Wanting to legalize all drugs is not really a left/right thing. It tends to be more of a liberal/authoritarian thing, or even just pragmatism. I'm in favour of legalizing drug use and supply under strict licence - an opinion I share with a lot of people whose other opinions I am diametrically opposed to. Taking J S Mill's liberalism as a starting point (as I do) can lead to some very different opinions, from what I consider very right wing conservatism, to what they consider very left-wing socialism. I'm at the sweet spot somewhere between, as you've probably all noticed from the fact that I'm always right about everything. :o) -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: 27 September 2006 12:23 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) P. J. Alling wrote: One of the more well known advocates of total decriminalizing most currently illegal drugs is William F. Buckley, I think he'd be very surprised to be considered a left winger. I know someone who went to the same New England prep school as William F. Buckley's son, from whom he purchased his first ever hit of LSD. Like father, like son :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
If beer was involved I'd be even more skeptical. Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: I wouldn't call the person who told you the story a liar, but a certain amount of embellishment is often the case. Sometimes to the extent that the original story is changed beyond recognition, or entirely made up. I've been told first person accounts of a Vietnam War story by two different people. The stories were nearly identical. They both couldn't be the same person, could they? Most probably they heard a good story and passed it on with themselves as the protagonist. I'm not saying thats the case here, but I'd take the story with a grain of salt until I have independent confirmation. It wasn't delivered under oath in court was it? No. He was sitting at my kitchen table and we were talking about people he knew in school. -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
P. J. Alling wrote: If beer was involved I'd be even more skeptical. No beer. Please stop intimating that my friend is a liar. -- Mark Roberts Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
...and franik understands it! frank theriault wrote: On 9/27/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! Oy! -knarf -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On 27/9/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! Case proven. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
--- John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elsewhere, he'd be normal. Aren't independence and normalcy (as defined by society) somewhat mutually exclsuive? Normal to me, denotes a certain amount of conformity, which is opposed to independence. --- Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd do fine most anywhere in the Commonwealth though. Pakistan? Bangladesh? Jamaica? New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! Case proven. Aha! Not only does he speak gibberish, he *understands* it, too! -- Mark Roberts Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Not quite. In some countries he'd be stoned to death. Paul On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:36 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Nah, I don't think there's anywhere that would stone me. There are a couple places that I'd risk having my head taken off with a machete on video tape if I made free with my personal beliefs. -Adam Paul Stenquist wrote: Not quite. In some countries he'd be stoned to death. Paul On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:36 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
you know, the parade of ignorance displayed in this family of threads has been nothing short of appalling. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for letting your stupid, jingoistic nonsense escape your fingers. sincerely, doug On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:36 PM, John Forbes wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
- Original Message - From: keith_w Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic) Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. I like the jingoism you guys come up with to try to conceal your very narrowmindedness. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Because in the country they tend to be self-employed (micro-businesmen), and in the cities they tend to be employees? Republicans in general do not seem to think anyone who works with their hands should be paid decently or have any rights, and are really ought to be indentured servants if not outright slaves. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Scott Loveless wrote: On 9/26/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's certainly not true in the US. Socialists are almost all academics or students. The working class socialists are a relic of the 1930s. Paul Based on my own admittedly narrow experience, most blue collar folks (myself included) just want to be left alone. Many have a strong libertarian bent, even though most have nothing to do with the Libertarian party. In rural areas of the Midwest they tended to vote Republican. In the cities they'll usually vote Democratic. Go figure. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Hey, didn't you hear what Doug said :-). Paul On Sep 27, 2006, at 8:20 PM, graywolf wrote: Because in the country they tend to be self-employed (micro- businesmen), and in the cities they tend to be employees? Republicans in general do not seem to think anyone who works with their hands should be paid decently or have any rights, and are really ought to be indentured servants if not outright slaves. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Scott Loveless wrote: On 9/26/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's certainly not true in the US. Socialists are almost all academics or students. The working class socialists are a relic of the 1930s. Paul Based on my own admittedly narrow experience, most blue collar folks (myself included) just want to be left alone. Many have a strong libertarian bent, even though most have nothing to do with the Libertarian party. In rural areas of the Midwest they tended to vote Republican. In the cities they'll usually vote Democratic. Go figure. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Marnie, I think that the United Auto Workers were so successful in negotiating benefits for their membership in the '50's, '60's, and '70's that all the jobs have moved to cheaper labor markets off shore. Employment by the big 3 US auto makers is what? ...10% of what it once was. Regards, Bob S. On 9/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/26/2006 7:51:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank Senator McCarthy for that one. William Robb === And quite a few others since. Smoke and mirrors -- disinformation and misinformation -- is quite active in the US. Now people who should support unions, working people who need them, like underpaid and non-healthcared Wal-Mart workers for example, don't. Unions helped improve things for people for decades, now they are perceived as evil by many. I am constantly amazed at how well things can be twisted by a cunning few. Oh, well, this is politics and I do believe this is a camera/photography list. Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Or, making something illegal (or highly taxed) makes it potentially very profitable for those who do not abide by the laws of the land (criminals in other words). It is also very profitable to all those who pretend to enforce such laws (government sanctioned and/or employed criminals?*) * Ya, I am being a smart ass again. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Douglas Newman Subject: Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics) . Most American politicians don't even support legalizing cannabis for medical/theraputic purposes, let alone full legalization of soft drugs, let alone total drugs legalization. I'm a radical left-winger by US standards and even I don't support it. There is a somewhat radical idea that if you decriminalize an activity, the cost to society is actually lower. Criminal activity begets criminal activity. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
That's High Gibberish. Not to be confused with Low Gibberish. Dolla Tor? -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- P. J. Alling wrote: Apparently Cotty speaks Gibberish... Cotty wrote: On 27/9/06, DagT, discombobulated, unleashed: Det synes jeg vi skal gjøre en dag, på norsk, og legge inn noen ufine kommentarer om amerikanske navlebeskuere .-) Amerikanerne kunne studere deres egen navels , hvis bare de ville åpen deres øye! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
Ya, Frank, reality sucks. (Sorry somehow it seems like using term like Hoovers, would lose some of the impact, besides that would be unfair to Eureka grin -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- frank theriault wrote: On 9/27/06, keith_w [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:56 PM, William Robb wrote: The more education one recieves, the more likely one is to aquire a socialist bent? The more removed from reality one might be, the more likely one is to acquire a socialist bent. Yes...I like that observation. I've always had problems with reality... -frank the pinko... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
Douglas Newman wrote: --- John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elsewhere, he'd be normal. Aren't independence and normalcy (as defined by society) somewhat mutually exclsuive? Normal to me, denotes a certain amount of conformity, which is opposed to independence. --- Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd do fine most anywhere in the Commonwealth though. Pakistan? Bangladesh? Jamaica? New Doug Jamaica? Probably. The other two, maybe not (And I wasn't even aware that Pakistan had rejoined, but it did a couple years ago). But Australia, the UK or New Zealand, assuredly. India, probably, most of the other nations, I'd likely do OK in. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
On Sep 27, 2006, at 11:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree with your assessment of what most Democrats would support. That's because most Democrats don't agree on what most Democrats would support. ;-) Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now politics)
John Forbes wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:17:33 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wouldn't make him an outcast. It would make him an independent thinker. We need more of those. It would make him both - in America. Elsewhere, he'd be normal. John Yes, and no. I've had few problems with Americans, and get along quite well with most of them, especially in the South. There's more than a few who have similar takes on things. heck, most of the moderate dems or republicans aren't that far off (Apart from my take on Socialized medicine, and that's more a case of least worst options rather than good idea). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now Socialists)
Well, the unions, or their memberships, have a lot to do with the attitude. Sometime, somehow, it quit being all workers should have good pay, benefits, and fair treatment; and became we need to keep the riff-raff out. I grew up in a union family, I have been in unions myself, so I am not talking from the outside. When you have bothers on the bench and are willing to work overtime because the money means more to you than some silly principles, and the business managers have more in common with the employers than the workers, it is time for those unions to die. It would be nice if some folks with principles would start new ones to replace them however, collective bargain is not socialism. At least not where I grew up. It always has strikes me funny when some working class stiff, complains about unions by claiming those factory workers pay is too high. Talk about being propagandized. When I worked scab jobs I always figured that it was my pay that was too low. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/26/2006 7:51:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank Senator McCarthy for that one. William Robb === And quite a few others since. Smoke and mirrors -- disinformation and misinformation -- is quite active in the US. Now people who should support unions, working people who need them, like underpaid and non-healthcared Wal-Mart workers for example, don't. Unions helped improve things for people for decades, now they are perceived as evil by many. I am constantly amazed at how well things can be twisted by a cunning few. Oh, well, this is politics and I do believe this is a camera/photography list. Marnie aka Doe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Street photography - religious objections (now NationalGeographic)
graywolf wrote: Because in the country they tend to be self-employed (micro-businesmen), and in the cities they tend to be employees? Republicans in general do not seem to think anyone who works with their hands should be paid decently or have any rights, and are really ought to be indentured servants if not outright slaves. I think you need to talk to more Republicans if you think that is the case. They tend to think that the labour market (including Unions btw) does a better job of ensuring worker's rights and pay than governmental fiat. Now that's not universal, but it's definitely a major strain in GOP thought. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
