[PEN-L:6103] (Fwd) TO BE DEAD IN DENVER & DOWNTOWN PRISTINA - Michael Moore

[Paul Phillips]

--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date:  Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:09:45 -0700
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:  Sid Shniad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:   TO BE DEAD IN DENVER & DOWNTOWN PRISTINA - Michael Moore

April 22, 1999

TO BE DEAD IN DENVER & DOWNTOWN PRISTINA

Dear friends,

There he was, The Great Consoler, standing at the podium, 
biting his lip, and speaking to a nation in shock.
"We must teach our children to settle their differences through 
words and not weapons."
Meanwhile, this same President, continues a daily slaughter of 
human beings. He says it's because the people he is bombing are 
doing their own slaughter. He has chosen to respond to their 
actions not with "words" but with death.
Is it any wonder some of our children -- especially those in most 
pain, the "outcasts," the "uncool" -- decide to turn to murder and 
strike out against what they perceive to be a world against them? 
We live in a culture in America where violence is The Way We Get 
Things Done. If it works for their elders, why shouldn't the kids 
give it a try?
As the kids at the high school near Denver huddled in locked 
classrooms in the hopes that they would not be the next one with a 
bullet in the face, they turned on the classroom TVs to watch the 
carnage and their own potential execution on CNN. One student, 
"Bob," got on his cell phone and called the local Channel 9 to give 
the on-air anchors a live play-by-play of events inside the school.
"Bob," the anchors said after getting their precious, Emmy-
winning sound bytes, "maybe you should hang up now and call 
911."
"Uh, oh, yeah," responded Bob, sounding a bit disappointed. 
His connection to the virtual world of television and cellular 
communication was more a part of his instinct to survive than his 
need to call the cops. Or maybe he trusted the people on TV more 
to get him out of there than the full-time armed officer who 
patrolled the halls of the high school. Not one gun of a well-armed 
force of police that showed up was able to prevent one death.
A world away, kids just a few years older than Bob are 
dropping bombs that are killing kids just a few years younger than 
Bob. We know this because we watch it on TV. We learn why 
we're dropping these bombs also on TV. A man from the Pentagon 
shows us cool video game images of point-and-click targets that go 
"BOOM!" Cool.
Another man in an important uniform shows us photographs 
from one of the Mother-of-All-Cameras, those satellites that sit 
thousands of miles up in space and have, I guess, REALLY long 
lenses.
He shows us Photo #1. Here, he says, is "unbroken, untouched 
ground" from a week ago. Then he shows us Photo #2 where he 
points to the ground being "freshly turned-over, dug up, and 
replaced." This, he says, is evidence of "a mass grave."
The reporters sit there like anxious pet dogs, lapping up the 
"revelations" and eagerly reporting them to us as "truth."
But these journalists failed to ask the man in the important 
uniform one very important and obvious question: "Where's the 
middle photo?"
If our satellite camera is always up there and running, capturing 
the before and after of a 300 foot piece of dirt, where's the "during" 
photo? The satellite cameras were snapping pictures the whole 
time, so where's the photos of the massacre itself? Where are the 
photos of the Serbs transporting the bodies to the "mass grave?" 
Where are the photos of the bodies being placed in the "mass 
grave" and covered with dirt? Where's just ONE photo of any of 
this?
Was the satellite camera on the blink during all this activity? 
Was it only working before the ground was dug and then only after 
it was covered back up?
Where are those photos, Mr. Clinton and Mr. Blair?
Members of our so-called free press: Where is your courage to 
ask the obvious questions? Why won't you? Why are we being lied 
to?
On the night of the Denver shootings, NATO (us) bombed the 
building containing the three Serbian TV entertainment networks. 
They didn't bomb the news station putting out the nightly 
propaganda until two nights later. They chose to bomb the 
entertainment networks first, one of which was showing "Wag the 
Dog" with its fake Albanian atrocity scenes, on a continuous loop.
Yes! Bomb the entertainment networks, 'cause it's all just one 
big show for a violence-deprived public forced to sit through a year 
of mostly-unconsummated oral sex in oval offices. We'd much 
prefer the gore to Gore and Bill. "The Matrix," a film about a 
young hero in a trenchcoat who is able to blows away everything in 
sight, is the number one film this week in the country.
And as the children of Denver ran from the trenchcoated killers, 
they were not met outside by nurturing adults who might take them 
into their arms to console and soothe the

[PEN-L:6076] The quality and quantity of work

[Michael Perelman]

The discussion begun by Tom Walker and Brad De Long seems to be pointing
to an analysis of the quality of labor.  Marx pointed out that we should
look not just that the extent of the working day but the intensity.  New
forms of panoptic monitoring allow employers to measure keystrokes, keep
track of times spent on the toilet, and perhaps in the near future
monitor brain waves.  We also heard about the importance of workplace
safety as well as the transfer of work to far off venues, such as the
sweatshops that have been in the news lately.

I also mentioned pressures that are external to, but closely related to
the workplace, such as commuting.

Have any studies attempted to develop a comprehensive analysis of the
demands of the workplace?

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6073] Re: Re: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[William S. Lear]

On Tuesday, April 27, 1999 at 22:28:21 (-0700) Max Sawicky writes:
>Lear:
>
>> Actually, as has been pointed out with no apparent effect on you, the
>> bombing has solidified Milosevic's support in the country, as anyone
>> could have predicted.  An end to the bombing and serious negotiations
>> based upon different premises than yours (that is, accept our offer or
>> we will bomb you) could very well return the country to normalcy of
>> some sort or another.  Milosevic, like all ugly rulers, abhors any
>> whiff of normalcy.
>
>"could very well" is not very compelling.  With the benefit of hindsight,
>it's not difficult to wish that the bombing had never begun.  Things could
>not be much worse.

I was only conditionalizing following your lead:

Subject: [PEN-L:5907] Re: Nobel laureates' Kosovo peace initiative!
Date:  Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:47:17

"...Only pressure will change the Milo position, and only endless bombing
(which I would oppose) or land invasion could create such pressure"

Subject: [PEN-L:5997] Re: Nobel laureates' Kosovo peace initiative!
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:19:57 -0700

"...War could liberate Kosova from the Serbs, which would be good for
Kosovan workers..."

I'm trying not to put those nasty white/black hats on folks.
Diplomacy could very well fail.  What do you expect me to do, simply
*assert* that it will work and all we need to do is send Milosevic
some flowers and candy?

>I was just being polite, saying I don't recall.  To be more blunt, the
>anti-bombing sentiment has simply not been strong on Kosovo
>self-determination.  ...

But you can't just be polite and select the worst positions from views
you disagree with.

>> More Manichean handwaving, Max.  The only way to put pressure "on Milo"
>> (cute --- we're not destroying a country, we're simply slapping around
>> a very naughty man) is not simply to bomb the country.  Tyrants fear
>
>Here again you're conjuring rhetoric out of thin air, not from anything I've
>written.

You claim that a halt in bombing "signals a halt to *any* commitment to
put pressure on Milo" (emph. added) is pretty black and white, is it
not?

>> democracy, and were we guided by better principles than a thoughtless
>> use of force, we might be able to help foster that; but then that
>> might require us to look at our past and try to figure out a way to
>> pressure our government to do something different, but as this is
>> unpalatable to you, that option is out.  Also note that "anti-Kosovan"
>
>This isn't an option.  It's a Jimmy Stewart movie.

Here you go again with the Cowboys and Indians argument.  How do you
know that this is not an option?  I'm certain people like you said the
same thing about the Vietnam War --- that trying to stop our
government from the crimes it was committing was just a "Jimmy Stewart
movie", that "at this time only practical arguments matter" and that
principles "just hold people hostage" (not that you hold those views
about Vietnam, naturally).  Perhaps you are wrong about this and we
are destroying the place and ruining people's live just as we did in
Vietnam.  Should we invade, we will certainly be throwing thousands of
people to their deaths.  How can you so callously dismiss diplomacy?
Are you so arrogant to pretend to know, sitting comfortably in the
beltway, what the possibilities are, given that the Serbs have
repeatedly offered very reasonable terms?  The only way we can *know*
what they think is to pursue it seriously.  The only way we'll pursue
it seriously is if we, the people, force our government to do so.
It's very convenient of you to back-stab diplomacy and democracy and
then denigrate them as some sort of sappy fantasy.

>I've talked about this ad nauseum.  The questions suggest you didn't pay
>attention.  I can't blame anyone for not reading my posts, only for
>criticizing them without reading them.

You are interested in liberating Kosovo and you said that "Evidence of
a desire to liberate Kosovo would be an invasion".  I simply wanted
you to clarify if you were pro-invasion *and* pro-bombing, or if you
thought the pro-bombers were not interested in liberation, merely
misguided, or what... I don't read all that you post, but I do try to
be careful when I do read them (though I have been very short on sleep
for the past month and a half, so I could have gotten things wrong
 but I don't think so).

>First, Chomsky is not on this list.  Second, excellent as most of his
>commentary is, I still think the "no bombing/no genocide" slogan is fatally
>flawed as politics, if not as moral statement.

First, do you only discuss views of those on the list?  Second, how is
his *argument*, with evidence, that genocide has not occurred and that
bombing sharply escalated the atrocities and drove hundreds of
thousands of people to flee their homes a "slogan"?  As I read things,
it is you who have been extraordinarily sloppy throwing the term
"genocide" around, something you are normally quite careful about in
other d

[PEN-L:6072] RE: Re: Re: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Max Sawicky]

Lear:

> Actually, as has been pointed out with no apparent effect on you, the
> bombing has solidified Milosevic's support in the country, as anyone
> could have predicted.  An end to the bombing and serious negotiations
> based upon different premises than yours (that is, accept our offer or
> we will bomb you) could very well return the country to normalcy of
> some sort or another.  Milosevic, like all ugly rulers, abhors any
> whiff of normalcy.

"could very well" is not very compelling.  With the benefit of hindsight,
it's not difficult to wish that the bombing had never begun.  Things could
not be much worse.

> . . . This is only correct if the choices available have nothing to do
with
> what is available now, which is flatly untrue.  The Serbs have made
> offers that were credible and we ignored them.  We need to be aware of
> this so we can determine when the offers are simply being rejected
> again.  History matters, Max.

Fair enough, but how remains the question.

> >All the more reason for the independence of Kosova from Serbia.
>
> And what is independence worth if the KLA, officially described as a
> "terrorist" organization, winds up in power, as is likely to happen?

I don't buy the terrorist rap on the KLA.  I would not be surprized to see
proven that the KLA has committed terrorist acts.  That doesn't make it a
terrorist organization (like, say, the PFLP).  As has been pointed out here,
the Allies committed some acts in WWII that could be construed as terrorist.
That doesn't make them terrorists in my book.  Same could be said about the
NLF in Vietnam.

> >> In short, very few of us opposed the principle of Kosovar
> >'autonomy'/'independence' (although I, for one - & mebbe Rugova for
> >two ->
> >
> >That is not obvious to me.  I recall very little expressed
> >support for Kosova from those opposed to Nato.  There has been
> >more about Nato's nefarious plans to stoke nationalism and
> >splinter the Balkans, as if the region wasn't a patchwork
> >already.
>
> This is a nice ploy, Max.  Willingly recall little of those who have
> said over and over that independence is very important but should be
> achieved in a different way than destroying a country, as you favor.

I was just being polite, saying I don't recall.  To be more blunt, the
anti-bombing sentiment has simply not been strong on Kosovo
self-determination.  It has ranged from skeptical to utterly hostile, with a
few good wishes sprinkled over.

> This whole courageous pose in support of "the people of Kosova",
> ignoring the immense destruction caused by the arrogant bombing to the
> country, to the people, to the prospects for a just and safe future
> for all people there reminds me of dear old Thucydides:

It would have been hard for me to ignore the bombing of Serbia, since it is
the foremost concern of most of the vocal people on this list.  Your ancient
Greek quote is completely undescriptive of anything I've said.  I've never
characterized my view as courageous or the contrary one as 'unmanly'.
Really.

> >A difference that crops up here is your equation or parity
> >between the 'cause' of Serbians and Kosovans.  They are not
> >equivalent.  The Serbian regime is the aggressor and oppressor.
> >Serbian independence is not in question.  Kosova is the aggrieved
> >party.  A bombing halt to me signals a halt to any commitment to
> >put pressure on Milo, though the bombing itself has not been
> >successful in this regard thus far.  Thus the real significance
> >of simple anti-bombing politics is anti-Kosovan.
>
> More Manichean handwaving, Max.  The only way to put pressure "on Milo"
> (cute --- we're not destroying a country, we're simply slapping around
> a very naughty man) is not simply to bomb the country.  Tyrants fear

Here again you're conjuring rhetoric out of thin air, not from anything I've
written.

> democracy, and were we guided by better principles than a thoughtless
> use of force, we might be able to help foster that; but then that
> might require us to look at our past and try to figure out a way to
> pressure our government to do something different, but as this is
> unpalatable to you, that option is out.  Also note that "anti-Kosovan"

This isn't an option.  It's a Jimmy Stewart movie.

> , , ,
>
> So, you are saying you are pro-invasion and anti-bombing?  Or you are
> pro-bombing *and* pro-invasion?  If the desire to liberate
> Kosova is equated with the desire for an invasion, what of the
> bombs-away only crowd?

I've talked about this ad nauseum.  The questions suggest you didn't pay
attention.  I can't blame anyone for not reading my posts, only for
criticizing them without reading them.

> >As I mentioned above, my perception of anti-bombing is not that
> >it was motivated by or associated with support for Kosova.  ...
>
> Oh, nothing that, say, Noam Chomsky has been saying since the start
> of this mess could be construed as "support for Kosova"?  He only

First, Chomsky is not on this list.  Sec

[PEN-L:6071] RE: Re: Yugoslav Peace Proposal

[Max Sawicky]

4 questions:

Does "cessation" mean withdrawal of Serbian military and police from Kosovo?

Is the peace-keeping force armed, and with what?  So far the Serbian govt
has said it will accept no such foreign armed bodies (I posted the link
attesting to this the other day).

Does "full autonomy" mean for Kosovo, or something else?

Who enforces all this, juridically and militarily?

mbs

> Yoshie,
>   Who issued this and when?  Sounds pretty
> reasonable.  Will the peacekeeping force be
> armed or not?  Last I heard out of Russia was
> that His Excellency was resisting the idea that
> the force be armed and that was the core of his
> disagreement with Chernomyrdin.
> Barkley Rosser
> -Original Message-
> From: Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 4:53 PM
> Subject: [PEN-L:6048] Yugoslav Peace Proposal
>
>
> >The Yugo government's peace proposal consists of the following points:
> >1) the cessation of all military operations;
> >2) the creation of a peacekeeping force in the region to be made up of
> >several nations, excepting those taking part in the conflict;
> >3) the return of refugees;
> >4) their right to full autonomy within the Federal Republic of
> Yugoslavia.
> >
> >Any comments?
> >
> >Yoshie
> >
> >
>

[PEN-L:6070] Poverty Rate Note

[Tim Stroshane]

Doug, in looking at your U.S. poverty rate time series, it looks
more like the poverty rate peaked in 1993 and then began to
decline, albeit in a somewhat "sticky" fashion.  It doesn't look
like poverty has increased with the growth we've been seeing. 
This seems on its face rather consistent with what economists
would predict coming out of a recession - labor markets would
become increasingly saturated, and even poorer-skilled workers
would find employment and be lifted out of poverty.

As a housing and homeless policy planner in Berkeley, I observe a
more complicated picture (as I know many others on this list
would suggest).  The extent to which people actually _experience_
a reduction in their poverty depends to a significant degree on
how much of what income they receive is spent for housing.  With
the end of strong rent control in Berkeley, Berkeley's Rent Board 
reports that the rents of newly occupied rental units (hence, a
new rent ceiling gets recorded) is up 25 percent over last year
at this time.  That means a studio apartment renting last year
for $600 would fetch $750 for its owner this year from the rental
market.  The Contra Costa Times reported from the California
Association of Realtors this morning that Berkeley's median home
sales price jumped 35 percent since a year ago, to $352,000.

At a conference last week, I heard it said that in some
California rental markets, something like 80 percent of the
tenants pay more than 50 percent of their incomes in rent. 
(Until I get the reports from which this is quoted, please,
everyone on the list, consider this factoid second-hand hearsay.) 
If that's true, then the poverty rate doesn't tell the story in
California, hardly at all.

The housing boom in Berkeley is a direct result of the housing
boom in San Francisco, which is a direct result of the booming
regional economy in finance and high tech in the Bay Area.  The
Times article states what many realtors have observed, that
buyers who have been priced out of SF come to Berkeley to make
that buy - and they come here with extra cash from failed
attempts to purchase in SF.

As I see it, the poverty rate indicates where people's incomes
are with respect to a government-established poverty (income)
threshold; however, it doesn't appear to me to account for the
purchasing power of their incomes the way a measure like the rent
or housing cost burden (as % of household income) does.

[PEN-L:6069] Re: Long Hours....

[Tom Walker]

Brad DeLong wrote:

>I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
>perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
>Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
>capitalism are pretty good...

to which Ian Murray replied:

>Tell that to migrant farm workers who grow your pesticide infested
>broccoli...

By "here and now" Brad was probably referring to being tenured faculty in
the Economics Dept. at UCBerkeley. They don't grow broccoli in Economics
Departments.


regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6068] Re: Re: Walesa: Use Brute Force to Disarm Serbs

[Eugene Coyle]

I think it was corporal punishment.

Gene Coyle

Tom Walker wrote:

> Walesa replied:
>
> >But as you know,
> >the rank I acquired in the army is corporal, so this is the strategy of a
> >corporal. However, some corporals prove to be very good commanders
>
> Any informatin on which _particular_ corporal Walesa was referring to?
>
> regards,
>
> Tom Walker
> http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6067] Memorial for Lynn Turgeon

[June Zaccone]

A memorial service for Lynn will be held at 4pm, this Friday, April 30,
1999, in the Cultural Center Theater, Axinn Library, Hofstra
University, Hempstead NY. His daughter has begun a scholarship. See
below. June Zaccone

The life of Lynn Turgeon had a profound effect on the academic and
cultural life at Hofstra University.  He leaves us with memories of an
extraorinary professor, a world-renowned scholar in Keynesian economics,
a thoughtful colleague and a dear friend.  We will miss his stimulating
mind and generous spirit.

What we will most remember is Lynn's strong but gentler voice, which was
grounded in a deep conviction of the rightness of the cause of full
employment economic and social justice for all.  
 
Kim Turgeon, Lynn's daughter, is establishing an endowed scholarship in
his name for women and minority students who best exemplify Lynn's
inquiring spirit.  Please designate your contribution to the Dr. E. Lynn
Turgeon Endowed Scholarship and forward the following address:
 Vice President for Development
 Hofstra Hall
 101 Hofstra University
 Hempstead, NY 11549-1010
Please make checks payable to Hofstra University/Lynn Turgeon Fund.  If
you have any questions please call Marty Melkonian at (516) 463-5595 or
David Blanchard at (516) 463-7054.  Thank you for your support.

[PEN-L:6066] Long Hours....

[Lisa & Ian Murray]

I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
capitalism are pretty good...

Brad DeLong

Tell that to migrant farm workers who grow your pesticide infested
broccoli...

Ian Murray
Seattle, WA

[PEN-L:6065] Re: Re: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[William S. Lear]

On Tuesday, April 27, 1999 at 10:43:40 (-0400) Max Sawicky writes:
>> Firstly, most of us opposed the bombing because it could not, in
>itself, possibly realise the professed ends in whose name it was
>conducted.  People were gonna get killed, maimed, dispossessed and
>dislocated for no reason that had anything to do with NATO's crocodile
>tears and apple pie bleatings.>
>
>Sure you did, but the practical effect of a bombing halt is to
>hand the entire country to Milo, complete with a death warrant
>for Kosova.

Actually, as has been pointed out with no apparent effect on you, the
bombing has solidified Milosevic's support in the country, as anyone
could have predicted.  An end to the bombing and serious negotiations
based upon different premises than yours (that is, accept our offer or
we will bomb you) could very well return the country to normalcy of
some sort or another.  Milosevic, like all ugly rulers, abhors any
whiff of normalcy.

>> Secondly, whatever solutions (and not all of us professed a clue as
>to what might have solved the problems as at 22 March) were available
>at the outset, are now mostly beyond reach (eg.  Serbian
>anti-Milosovic dynamics, the Serbian parliamentary compromise of 23
>April, Rugova's gradualist strategy etc), and the scope of possible
>positive changes has been severely limited by NATO's vicious
>nonsense. >
>
>Right.  But some people are prone to revisiting what should have
>been done three weeks ago, instead of the choices in view right
>now.

This is only correct if the choices available have nothing to do with
what is available now, which is flatly untrue.  The Serbs have made
offers that were credible and we ignored them.  We need to be aware of
this so we can determine when the offers are simply being rejected
again.  History matters, Max.

>All the more reason for the independence of Kosova from Serbia.

And what is independence worth if the KLA, officially described as a
"terrorist" organization, winds up in power, as is likely to happen?

>> In short, very few of us opposed the principle of Kosovar
>'autonomy'/'independence' (although I, for one - & mebbe Rugova for
>two ->
>
>That is not obvious to me.  I recall very little expressed
>support for Kosova from those opposed to Nato.  There has been
>more about Nato's nefarious plans to stoke nationalism and
>splinter the Balkans, as if the region wasn't a patchwork
>already.

This is a nice ploy, Max.  Willingly recall little of those who have
said over and over that independence is very important but should be
achieved in a different way than destroying a country, as you favor.

This whole courageous pose in support of "the people of Kosova",
ignoring the immense destruction caused by the arrogant bombing to the
country, to the people, to the prospects for a just and safe future
for all people there reminds me of dear old Thucydides:

 What  used to be described as a thoughtless act of aggression was
 now regarded as the courage one would expect to find in  a  party
 member; to think of the future and wait was merely another way of
 saying one was a coward; any  idea  of  moderation  was  just  an
 attempt   to   disguise   one's  unmanly  character;  ability  to
 understand a question from all sides meant that one  was  totally
 unfitted  for action. Fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real
 man...

>> didn't have a clue how it might come about in any meaningful way -
>in the short term at least).  We merely opposed - and still oppose -
>'strategic bombing.  Because it kills and impoverishes the innocent
>and PRECISELY BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HELP, IN ANY WAY, ADVANCE THE CAUSE
>OF ANY OF YUGOSLAVIA'S PEOPLES. >
>
>A difference that crops up here is your equation or parity
>between the 'cause' of Serbians and Kosovans.  They are not
>equivalent.  The Serbian regime is the aggressor and oppressor.
>Serbian independence is not in question.  Kosova is the aggrieved
>party.  A bombing halt to me signals a halt to any commitment to
>put pressure on Milo, though the bombing itself has not been
>successful in this regard thus far.  Thus the real significance
>of simple anti-bombing politics is anti-Kosovan.

More Manichean handwaving, Max.  The only way to put pressure "on Milo"
(cute --- we're not destroying a country, we're simply slapping around
a very naughty man) is not simply to bomb the country.  Tyrants fear
democracy, and were we guided by better principles than a thoughtless
use of force, we might be able to help foster that; but then that
might require us to look at our past and try to figure out a way to
pressure our government to do something different, but as this is
unpalatable to you, that option is out.  Also note that "anti-Kosovan"
is equated with "anti-bombing" in a facile sweep of the hand, ignoring
the fact that it will be very difficult for the Kosovans to live
peacefully once the cameras in the West have gone home and the KLA
"terrorists" sweep into power.

>> P

[PEN-L:6064] Re: Re: April 28th: Time to Remember

[William S. Lear]

On Tuesday, April 27, 1999 at 11:20:06 (-0700) Tom Walker writes:
>>Tom L. notes:
>>
>>>Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is
>>dedicated
>>>to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.
>
>Tom K. wrote:
>
>>On April 28th 1987, Ben Linder was out doing his job: taking water
>>measurements on wier he had built, to determine the potential for small
>>hydroelectric plant development in norther Nicaragua.
>
>Tom W. adds: 
>
>I remember.

Me too.  I remember a picture of Linder dressed up as a clown riding a
unicycle making kids laugh.

 all the fires raging, laughing at the courage of dreamers screaming
 all the cowards smile and laugh and all that's left is all the dreaming
 still the cowards have their way
 we're all devoured by the fake


Bill

[PEN-L:6063] (Fwd) BOMBING BRINGS TERROR TO NOVI SAD

[ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]]

--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date sent:  Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:22:08 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:   Sid Shniad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:BOMBING BRINGS TERROR TO NOVI SAD

The Globe and Mail   Monday, April 26, 1999

BOMBING BRINGS TERROR TO NOVI SAD

Normal life ceased to exist a month ago
for residents of Yugoslavia's second-largest city

By Estanislao Oziewicz

Belgrade -- One of the most difficult things Milena Popov has to 
cope with are the questions of her two children: "What did we do? 
Why are they trying to hurt us? Why don't they like us?"
Like hundreds of thousands of Serbian children, eight-year-old 
Nina and three-year-old Dunia are collateral victims in the 
undeclared NATO air war against President Slobodan Milosevic of 
Yugoslavia and his policies in Kosovo.
For Nina there is no more school, there are no more piano 
lessons or gymnastics classes. For Dunia, there are no more 
preschool programs. For both girls, there are daily preparations to 
spend terrifying nights in an air-raid shelter.
Ms. Popov, 34, husband Sasha, 38, and their children live about 
150 kilometres north of Belgrade in Novi Sad, which has sustained 
unrelenting bombardment for going on five weeks.
With a population of 180,000 in the city proper and about 
500,000 in the surrounding urban area, Novi Sad is Yugoslavia's 
second-largest city. Its Danube River bridges, oil refinery, 
industries and nearby communication transmitters have all been 
devastated.
So has the city hall building, considered by residents as an 
architectural treasure. Water and electricity have been cut off to 
parts of the city.
The nightly and early-morning bombing has had a profound 
impact on its residents, and not only in terms of deaths and injuries, 
for which the authorities are not releasing numbers.
"Until a month ago, we led totally normal lives, no different 
from you or anybody else," Ms. Popov said in an interview. "What 
is happening to us could one day be happening to you. We never 
did anything.
"I don't want to sit here wondering whether my children will 
have something to eat, let alone whether they will be alive next 
week. That's too much for me to bear."
The middle-class Popovs are the kind of people who, in normal 
times, would be ideal immigrants to Canada. Ms. Popov speaks a 
number of languages -- English, Chinese, Russian and Japanese 
fluently -- and her husband, a former hockey player, is a 
watchmaker. Until the bombing began, Mr. Popov used to play 
pickup hockey with his friends a couple of times a week.
Well-educated and, up to now, citizens of the world, they are 
also entrepreneurial. Even with years of economic sanctions against 
Yugoslavia, they managed to open two watch shops. (One of Mr. 
Popov's sidelines is putting logos on watches for Western 
companies.)
Although Ms. Popov says she is flattered by the compliment, 
she does not want to be the perfect immigrant to Canada.
"I want to be a perfect tourist. I want to have friends in Canada 
who want to come here to have good time. I don't want to be a 
perfect immigrant, because that would mean something horrible 
happened to me, because I had to go. That is not good. I don't want 
that."
The Popovs live in a two-bedroom apartment in a five-storey 
building close to one of the bridges demolished by North Atlantic 
Treaty Organization missiles in central Novi Sad. They own a car, 
and before March 24, when the NATO campaign began, they were 
planning on buying another. They also were building a new home 
on the other side of the Danube.
Until the bombings began, Ms. Popov also worked as a health 
department volunteer making film documentaries on subjects such 
as childbirth. She is now among a group of volunteers helping 
children with psychological distress caused by the military attacks.
Ms. Popov also worries terribly about the toxic air and water 
effects of the destruction of Novi Sad's oil refinery and the 
Panchevo petrochemical complex, an hour's drive away.
All across Serbia, schools have been cancelled, leaving parents 
exhausted and stressed from the weight of NATO bombing, unable 
to provide home schooling. Ms. Popov said that parents, weary 
from lack of sleep and tension, simply cannot enforce any study on 
their children, many of whom are experiencing psychological 
problems.
Among younger ones, Ms. Popov said, this includes reversion 
to thumb-sucking; among older children there is a tendency to turn 
inward or to be aggressive.
"Shelters are instant proof that something is wrong," Ms. Popov 
said. "You get very tired, you don't sleep, it's cold, it's loud."
Besides comforting her children, she is trying to deal with her 
own rising feeling of resentment toward reside

[PEN-L:6058] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on workinghours

[Mark Rickling]

Brad De Long wrote:

>>Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
>>and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
>>work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.
>>
>
>I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
>perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
>Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
>capitalism are pretty good...

Were I perverse I'd cite Fogel and Engerman's data concerning slaves
vis-a-vis contemporary industrial workers in Europe.

It is true that Gutman's work has been criticized for not dealing with race
in a satisfactory manner. I don't know if that is your point or not. In
"Work, Culture, and Society in Industrializing America" Gutman argues that
the human components of the Age of Industrialization were ill suited to the
demands of factory life. Foreign and internal immigrants were familiar with
the regimen of agrarian rhythms and the relatively self-directed work of
the artisan. Thus, their protests against factory life took predictable
forms. Industrial workers, used to what Thompson termed the "alternate
bouts of intense labour and of idleness wherever men were in control of
their working lives," constantly challenged factory rules, which demanded a
more consistent effort. See also Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times for a
visual presentation of these ideas.

But don't let me shake your faith in the march of Progress. I have no doubt
that you're able to cite whatever horrendous antecedent necessary to make
everything today look like peaches and cream.

mark



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[PEN-L:6062] book on balkans

[Michael Perelman]

This message bounced because of an address problem.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:13:01 +
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [PEN-L:5976] RE: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

Woodward, Susan L. 1995. Balkan Tragedy: Chaos and Dissolution after
the Cold War. Washington, DC: Brookings Institution. Woodward has also
contributed a chapter to our project at United Nations
University/World Institute for Development Economics Research,
Helsinki, jointly with Queen Elizabeth House, Oxford University. We
(Nafziger, Stewart, and Vayrynen) are editing two volumes entitled
"War and Displacement: The Origins of Humanitarian Emergencies," being
published by Oxford University Press later this year.

E. Wayne Nafziger


--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901

[PEN-L:6060] Kosovo Postings

[ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]]

Just so that it is clear to all on the list, I forward many of the 
postings I receive from Sid Sniad who used to be but is no longer 
on this list.  I do not necessary agree with them either with regard 
to the 'facts' they convey or with their interpretation.  However, I 
think they all are significant enough contributions to the debate to 
be worth posting.  Those that I don't think add anything I do not 
forward.  So, if you disagree with any of these, please remember 
that they do not necessarily express my views.

However, there is one point I wish to make clear.  Through many of 
the other posts on the list, the assumption/assertation is made 
that NATO began to bomb to *stop the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo 
and/or genocide of Albanians*.  This is false as there was no ethnic 
cleansing of Kosovo and no genocide in Kosovo prior to the 
bombing.  If you look at the UN figures previous posted on this list, 
of the *refugees* from the low level civil war initiated by the KLA, 
about 20 per cent were in Serbia.  Given that Serbs represent 10 % 
of the population of Kosovo, then there was a far higher percentage 
of Serb refrugees driven out than there were Albanians.  
Furthermore, of the estmated 2,000 killed, approximately 800 (or 
40 % were Serbs), 1,200 Albanian.  If ethnic cleansing and 
genocide was being done, then proportionately there was more 
being done by the Albanians than by the Serbs.  Perhaps NATO 
should have bombed Tirana instead.

Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba

[PEN-L:6061] Vietnam War Impact

[ts99u-1.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.154.224]]

Thanks to all on the list who answered my request for references 
on the economic impact of the Vietnam war.  I have passed on all 
your suggestions, papers and ideas to the student.

Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba

[PEN-L:6059] Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Mark Rickling]

Jim Devine wrote:


>I didn't say that the slaves got worse off due to freedom. In the US,
the

>case which I'm most familiar with, they definitely better off (at least
in

>the short run), as their work hours per year fell significantly
(according

>to Ransom & Sutch). My point was that the shift from slavery to freedom
is

>a mixed blessing. Some things -- like security -- are often lost.


This is a good point. It is often assumed that a move towards a more
formally or legally equal relationship from a relationship with
asymmetrical power dynamics is a good thing. This is not always the
case.


I got the following in the mailbox from the AFL-CIO which gave me pause.
My roommate, a temp worker, takes pride in the fact that he "works for
himself." Never mind the fact that his employers don't provide health
insurance or a pension plan. Also, when I used to deliver food, many of
my coworkers had the same feelings about being "independent contractors."
All of which goes to show that "formal" equality often obscures class,
race and gender exploitation.


TahomaFrom: "Atwork Account"
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: Undisclosed-recipients

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:33:40 -0400

Subject: Work in Progress, April 26, 1999



Work in Progress, April 26, 1999


BILL SEEKS END TO CONTRACTOR SCAM--Bipartisan legislation to end the
practice of misclassifying workers as independent contractors was
introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives last week. Many employers
misclassify workers to avoid paying billions of dollars in local, state
and federal income taxes, Social Security and Medicare taxes and
unemployment insurance. The workers are forced to pay both their share
and the employers  share of Social Security and Medicare; they seldom
enjoy health or pension benefits or the protection of most labor laws,
including those covering employment discrimination, safety and health and
the right to organize unions. The Independent Contractors Classification
Act is the first of several AFL- CIO-backed bills to be introduced to
address so-called alternative work arrangements, such as hiring
temporary, "perma-temps" and part-time workers.





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[PEN-L:6057] [Fwd: Kosovo: A Response to the Critics]boundary="------------4D5195E58A2B0282DC25D386"

[Henry C.K. Liu]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--4D5195E58A2B0282DC25D386



--4D5195E58A2B0282DC25D386

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:48:04 -0400
From: "Henry C.K. Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Jeffrey's reply to the six criticisms of NATO policy of bombing attacks on Yugoslavia 
that he summarized attempted to be fair and objective.
Still, reading his counter arguments with as much forebearance as possible, they still 
fall far short in demolishing the force of the criticisms.  At best, Jeffery's are 
merely informed alternative views that sound very much like apologetic rationalization.

Two key issues seem to have be overlooked.
The first is the damage the bombing does and will do to NATO itself, as an effective 
alliance, to its credibility and to the soundenss of its new mission.
The second is the impact the military action has on the conceptual framework of 
post-Cold War geo-politics.  Korsovo marks the beginning of the ominous emergence of a 
geo-political world view that is not condusive to glabal peace.  It serves notice to 
all nations that renounciation of the uase of force and disarmament are fool-hardy 
policies.
In the long run, Korsovo has damaged the future of a post Cold War world order, 
regardless of its outcome.
It is very hard to follow logically the thinking of a well-meaning liberal hawk.

Henry C.K. Liu


--4D5195E58A2B0282DC25D386--

[PEN-L:6056] Re: Re: graffitti

[Doug Henwood]

Tom Walker wrote:

>Doug wrote:
>
>> before his
>>Monica-induced spurt in popularity in 1998.
>
>Shame on you, Doug! Pen-l is not a bathroom wall. ;-)

Nor a Gap dress.

Doug

[PEN-L:6055] Re: graffitti

[Tom Walker]

Doug wrote:

> before his
>Monica-induced spurt in popularity in 1998.

Shame on you, Doug! Pen-l is not a bathroom wall. ;-)

regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6054] Re: Yugoslav Peace Proposal

[J. Barkley Rosser, Jr.]

Yoshie,
  Who issued this and when?  Sounds pretty
reasonable.  Will the peacekeeping force be
armed or not?  Last I heard out of Russia was
that His Excellency was resisting the idea that
the force be armed and that was the core of his
disagreement with Chernomyrdin.
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 4:53 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:6048] Yugoslav Peace Proposal


>The Yugo government's peace proposal consists of the following points:
>1) the cessation of all military operations;
>2) the creation of a peacekeeping force in the region to be made up of
>several nations, excepting those taking part in the conflict;
>3) the return of refugees;
>4) their right to full autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
>
>Any comments?
>
>Yoshie
>
>

[PEN-L:6053] Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Doug Henwood]

Charles Brown wrote:

>Chas: I heard a report that Clinton's approval rating is down (different
>from the polls directly on approval of the bombing).

According to Gallup, Clinton's approval rating in two April polls was 59
and 60%, down from 67% in February, and a one-poll peak of 73% last
December. He's back to levels not seen since early- and mid-97, before his
Monica-induced spurt in popularity in 1998.

Doug

[PEN-L:6048] Yugoslav Peace Proposal

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

The Yugo government's peace proposal consists of the following points:
1) the cessation of all military operations;
2) the creation of a peacekeeping force in the region to be made up of
several nations, excepting those taking part in the conflict;
3) the return of refugees;
4) their right to full autonomy within the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Any comments?

Yoshie

[PEN-L:6052] Re: Eisner's World (and the AFL-CIO's)

[Tom Walker]

Michael Hoover wrote:

>> The AFL-CIO calculates that a worker earning $25,000 in 1994 would get
>> $138,500 today if his pay grew as fast as his boss's.

Yes, yes, I know it's only a propaganda number to make a point. But think
how much environmental devastation would occur if each worker's pay did grow
that fast. Reminds me of an old joke: 

Man asks woman if she will sleep with him if he gives her $1,000,000. She
answers yes. Then he asks if she will do it for $10. She replies: What do
you think I am? a prostitute? Man replies: We've already established that,
we're just haggling over the price.


regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6049] Re: Walesa: Use Brute Force to Disarm Serbs

[Tom Walker]

Walesa replied:

>But as you know,
>the rank I acquired in the army is corporal, so this is the strategy of a
>corporal. However, some corporals prove to be very good commanders

Any informatin on which _particular_ corporal Walesa was referring to?

regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6050] Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Jim Devine]

Brad writes: >That I should limit my statements to the "core" in a
core-periphery model.

>Increases in demand for the products made in the periphery do often
generate a substantial increase in hours of work and intensity of
supervision: in the context of the U.S. south, no British cotton mill would
have meant shorter workdays (and less "supervision," less whipping) for
American slaves. It's expensive to brutally exploit your workforce (rather
than turn them into sharecroppers or serfs), and bosses and owners often
find it worth doing only if demand from the industrial core is strong...<

Wasn't the original J. St. Mill's quote about the introduction of machinery
not helping the people at the bottom of the division of labor? if so, we
have to recognize that the division of labor is global.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html
Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!

[PEN-L:6051] NATO photos of of Kosovo mass graves are fakelampidis.1@osu.edu

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

You may have seen this already, but just in case you haven't Yoshie

*  NATO photos of of Kosovo mass graves are fake: report

THE HAGUE, April 24 (AFP) - Several photos distributed by NATO
and said to show possible mass graves in Kosovo could be fake, the
Dutch daily Algemen Dagblad said Saturday.

The paper based its claims on analyses carried out by a map
expert specialising in the study of satellite photos, who examined
four pictures taken over the Kosovo villages of Pusto Selo and
Izbica.

NATO showed two photos of each village. In each case, one of the
photos shows the area before the alleged graves were dug and the
second, taken several days later, appears to show a number of
freshly dug graves.

According to the expert, identified only as E. Burie, the most
recent photos displayed worrying inconsistencies.

He said that in the second picture of the Pusto Selo village,
there is a house which does not feature in the image taken a few
days before.

He said: "Either the Kosovars had time between the massacres to
build a house in a few nights, or the photo has been manipulated."

He said the photo of Izbica showing rows of graves had "touch-up
work which could only be the result of two different pictures being
superimposed."

Burie, who runs a studio in the central Dutch town of Almere
specialising in work for the country's top publishers and for
military maps, could not be reached for comment.

Italian General Giuseppe Marani, a NATO spokesman, said on April
18 that the alliance had photos of 43 sites in Kosovo which featured
"very clear rows of individual tombs facing southeast, that is,
towards Mecca."  *

[PEN-L:6044] Re: Re: Kosovo: A Response to the Critics

[Ken Hanly]

I should have used his name. Sorry. I just used the term "author". I guess my one
reference about a Canadian source is out of line. I was thinking that the author was
at oise (Ontario Institute for Studies in Education) not at "osu". Where is osu? Ohio
State University? I assume he must be an American  and his Lincoln reference is meant
to resonate in patriotic US breasts, at least north of the Mason-Dixon line. I didn't
mean to imply you were the author. It is still a pathetic argument to authority
and/also an ad populum but at least if he is an American it is appropriately
pathetic..
  Cheers, Ken Hanly

Ricardo Duchesne wrote:

> Hanly, Just a reminder: Jeffrey Beatty wrote this, not me.
>
> ricardo
>
> > Date:  Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:29:02 -0500
> > Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > From:  "Jeffrey L. Beatty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To:WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject:   Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics
> > X-To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6047] Tens of thousands join Kosovo peace rally in Rome

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

ROME, April 24 (AFP) - Tens of thousands of people took to the streets
in Italian cities Saturday in rallies for a "fair peace" in Kosovo and
against racism.

In Rome, organizers said the demonstration, called by Prime Minister
Massimo D'Alema's Social Democrats, drew 150,000 people in spite of
driving rain but other estimates said the peaceful march was attended
by 50,000, mostly students.

A banner preceding the march read "Outlaw War" and "Peace on the
Balkans."

Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, former Israeli prime minister
Shimon Peres, Lea Rabin, widow of slain Israeli premier Yitzhak Rabin,
and former French culture minister Jack Lang were to address the rally
later Saturday.

Demonstrators carried red flags of D'Alema's ruling party, and
pictures of Latin American revolutionary Che Guevara and Palestinian
flags were also seen.

Several thousand Italian protesters, mainly students, staged
demonstrations in Genoa, Milan and Naples to protest NATO's air
campaign against Yugoslavia, police said.

In Milan, demonstrators threw colored smoke bombs toward the guarded
US embassy and burned an Italian flag to protest Italy's participation
in NATO's operation, dubbed Allied Force.

In Naples, some 500 protesters, according to police estimates,
demonstrated in front of both the public television building and near
NATO's southern command headquarters.

In each instance, protesters pinned paper targets to their clothes
like the ones that have become a symbol of solidarity among Serbs in
Belgrade.

Most of the banners were hostile to NATO and the Italian government.

In Genoa, some 1,500 people demonstrated peacefully, police said.

The rallies were organised by pacifist associations and the Italian
communist party.

Anti-NATO sentiment has grown as NATO's targets, initially only
military, have been widened to include civilian buildings in Belgrade.

An attack on the Serbian state television headquarters overnight
Thursday drew loud criticism in Italy, in particular from Italian
Foreign Minister Lambertino Dini. The bombing in downtown Belgrade
killed at least 10 people and left 18 wounded, according to the
Yugoslav government. Some 20 people remained unaccounted for on
Saturday as rescue workers searched the rubble for survivors.

[PEN-L:6046] Walesa: Use Brute Force to Disarm Serbs

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Lou wrote:
>The other problem is that Solidarity has been much too
>uncritical of Soviet dissidents. In that position paper I quoted from
>earlier in the day, I left out the sentence which states their support for
>Polish Solidarity, a big mistake.

I hope that folks in Solidarity have by now re-evaluated their past support
for 'dissidents' in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. If not, here's one
more reason for doing so. Yoshie

*  Walesa: Use brute force to disarm Serbs

Q: As NATO enters the second month of bombing attacks, what in your view
should be done in Kosovo now?

A: First, we have to settle this conflict. We cannot help solve it with
statements only. We must use overwhelming force and disarm them. Slobodan
Milosevic must be made aware that he's a war criminal and that he will be
brought to court. And we must really publicize - even by dropping leaflets
on the Serbs indicating a deadline -- that they must either surrender or
die. Of course, I'm presenting to you just my rough ideas. But as you know,
the rank I acquired in the army is corporal, so this is the strategy of a
corporal. However, some corporals prove to be very good commanders
  *

[PEN-L:6045] Brad De Long on working hours

[Brad De Long]

>>I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
>>perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
>>Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
>>capitalism are pretty good...
>
>I sent a post a bit ago on how here (Cochbamba) hours are getting longer,
>life is becoming one interminable jornada (period of labor) for LOTS of
>poeple.  This is capitalist modernity here.  How do you figure that into
>your comment?
>
>Tom
>
>Tom Kruse
>Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
>Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

That I should limit my statements to the "core" in a core-periphery model.

Increases in demand for the products made in the periphery do often
generate a substantial increase in hours of work and intensity of
supervision: in the context of the U.S. south, no British cotton mill would
have meant shorter workdays (and less "supervision," less whipping) for
American slaves. It's expensive to brutally exploit your workforce (rather
than turn them into sharecroppers or serfs), and bosses and owners often
find it worth doing only if demand from the industrial core is strong...


Brad DeLong

[PEN-L:6043] NATO may bomb VINCA Institute of Nuclear Sciencespen-l@galaxy.csuchico.edu

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Here's scary news about NATO bombings forwarded by my favorite
postmodernist Andy Ross (coz he looks cute and is known for wearing
_extreme_ outfits [for academics]--besides, he's a friend of Michael
Hoover's). Shall we whistle "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" now?

Oppose NATO! Better to be active today than radioactive tomorrow!

Yoshie

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:08:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: andrew ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: MLG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: NATO may bomb VINCA Institute (fwd)

--- Forwarded

Dear friends,

Something which we feared that might happen, seems very likely.

I can confirm now we expect that NATO planes will bomb VINCA Institute. In
the passed several days we received this warning, but today we got this
information as serious threat from the highest authorities.

Our reactor is not working for more than 15 years, but the significant
amount of 235-U enriched and unused fuel is still in its interior. Highly
radioactive material for everyday activities is also located in several
research laboratories.

I fear that a big disaster may occur. In the worst case, no Balkan and even
European country would be safe. Not to mention ecological catastrophe. I
still hope that this disaster could be avoided, unless we are already late.

I would appreciate if you succeed in informing as many people as possible
on the eventual tragedy. God bless you.


P.R. Adzic
---
P.R. AdzicTel:(381 11) 444-7965/455-041
VINCA Institute of Nuclear SciencesFax:(381 11) 455-041
Laboratory of Physics (010)
P.O. Box 522, 11001 Belgrade   E-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yugoslavia  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---

[PEN-L:6041] Re: Re: Query on history of EPA, Consumer Protection Agency, etc.

[Michael Hoover]

> Maybe not on point, but the Federal regulation of the railroads seems
> clearly created with the support of the railroads.  See Gabriel Kolko's
> book of 1965, RAILROADS AND REGULATION.   They wanted to be protected
> from each other, and from cutthroat competition.  It appears that
> electric regulation, under the insights of Samuel Insull, followed the
> railroad template.
> Right now there are perennial Bills introduced at the Federal level
> to de-regulate electricity.  they don't (haven't yet) go anywhere because
> of the conflict between  powerful interests on either side.
> Gene Coyle

see Kolko's 1967 _The Triumph of Conservatism_ for more general argument
about so-called 'Progressive Reform' which was really about the formation 
of Hamiltonian government-corporate partnership...Michael Hoover

[PEN-L:6042] Eisner's World

[Michael Hoover]

> The AFL-CIO calculates that a worker earning $25,000 in 1994 would get
> $138,500 today if his pay grew as fast as his boss's.
> 
> The Top-Paid Chief Executives in Business Week's survey of 365 of the
> largest companies in the U.S. are:
> 
> CEO/Company Total Pay (millions)
> 
> 1 Michael Eisner/Walt Disney (NYSE: DIS - news)$575.6 million
> 2 Mel Karmazin/CBS (NYSE: CBS - news)201.9
> 3 Sanford Weill/Citigroup (NYSE:C - news) 167.1
> 4 Stephen Case/America Online (NYSE: AOL - news) 159.2
> 5 Craig Barrett/Intel (NASDAQ: INTC - news) 116.5 6

Michael Hoover

[PEN-L:6040] Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Jim Devine]

I took a brave stand, stating: >>I'm all in favor of freeing the slaves.<< 

Then I adde:>>But it's not an unmixed blessing. In some places in the
Caribbean, I understand that the slave-owners freed their own slaves in
order to avoid the responsibility of keeping them alive.<<

Josh writes: >Some thought about the demographics of the Caribbean might
lead you to reconsider your example, if not your broader point. I don't
have any numbers in front of me (a condition of my exile here in DC is that
I only get to see my books on weekends) but I'm fairly sure that throughout
the region, life expectancies increased dramatically after emancipation,
and population growth rates changed from sharply negative to positive.<

I didn't say that the slaves got worse off due to freedom. In the US, the
case which I'm most familiar with, they definitely better off (at least in
the short run), as their work hours per year fell significantly (according
to Ransom & Sutch). My point was that the shift from slavery to freedom is
a mixed blessing. Some things -- like security -- are often lost.

My impression is that the places where slave-owners voluntarily freed their
own slaves were places where the ratio of labor supply to land acreage was
such that free laborers were available are relatively low wages. (Modern
slavery was more likely to persist when the "man/land" ratio was low, where
the only way the landowners could make a "decent" profit was to set up
absolute monopsonies in the labor market.)

>I'm not a big fan of world-systems theory, but when Immanuel Wallerstein
says that the shift from dependent to wage labor is almost always an
advance for workers, it sounds right to me.<

I would agree with Wallerstein, including the "almost." 

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html
Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!

[PEN-L:6039] RE: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Tom Walker]

Anybody else see what I see when looking at the lines that make up the NATO
logo/compass rosette/gunsight graphic on the cover of the Economist? Or do I
just have a hyperactive gestalt?


regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6038] Re: Kosovo: A Response to the Critics

[Ricardo Duchesne]

Hanly, Just a reminder: Jeffrey Beatty wrote this, not me.  

ricardo


> Date:  Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:29:02 -0500
> Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From:  "Jeffrey L. Beatty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:   Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics
> X-To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6036] Re: April 28th: Time to Remember

[Tom Walker]

>Tom L. notes:
>
>>Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is
>dedicated
>>to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.

Tom K. wrote:

>On April 28th 1987, Ben Linder was out doing his job: taking water
>measurements on wier he had built, to determine the potential for small
>hydroelectric plant development in norther Nicaragua.

Tom W. adds: 

I remember.

regards,

Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/covenant.htm

[PEN-L:6037] Re: April 28th: Time to Remember

[Tom Lehman]

Yes, I remember attending a memorial service for your pal in the late 80's
held at the Pitt school of engineering.

Two things that I recall from that memorial meeting. One was slides of  the
little hydro station your friend had built. The other was a slide of an
ancient gentleman from the neighborhood who had in his youth had been with the
original Sandinistas.  This old gentleman had painted his house in Sandinista
colors, as much as to say to the contras, come and get me.

Another interesting thing another, one of my pals claimed that he had drinks
in a hotel bar in Honduras or was it Guatemala with that Hosenfaus(sp)
character.

Fraternally,

Tom L.

pamela calla wrote:

> Tom L. notes:
>
> >Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is
> dedicated
> >to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.
>
> On April 28th 1987, Ben Linder was out doing his job: taking water
> measurements on wier he had built, to determine the potential for small
> hydroelectric plant development in norther Nicaragua.
>
> Laying in wait was a contra "task force".  Shots were fired, grenades
> thrown, and 3 were killed: Ben and two Nicaraguan co-workers. Some months
> later his folks got an envelope from the State Department; in it were his
> watch, wallet and a few other things.
>
> When asked who was responsible for his son's death, David Linder, Ben's
> father, responded "someone, who was paid by someone, who was paid by
> someone ... and all the way down the president of the United States."
>
> Ben and I were close; we shared a room in Mataglapa; his wake was held in
> the office I shared with three nicaraguan co-workers.  I was still doing
> architecture then; my first bit of design work actually built in Nicaragua
> was the structure around is tombstone.
>
> Tomorrow night at the local factory workers union meeting hall we'll be
> talking about Nicaragua, Ben, teh future.
>
> Take a moment tomorrow for Ben; and for all the others sacrificed on the
> alter of profit of reasons of state.
>
> Thanks-
>
> Tom
>
> Tom Kruse
> Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
> Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6034] [Response to critique of bombing critique

[Ken Hanly]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Subject: Re: [PEN-L:6003] Re: Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Ricardo Duchesne wrote:

> war", much as Vietnam was television's "first war" and the Gulf War was
> the war that saw CNN come of age as a major mass media outlet.  Perhaps
> predictably, information about the conflict has become confusing and
> contradictory.  Much of the information has to be viewed through jaded
> eyes as the propaganda machinery on both sides of the conflict has gone
> into high gear.
>
> Having said all that, I want to offer (risk?) a reply to some of the
> criticisms of NATO policy that have been offered on the lists I post to
> and elsewhere over the last months.  The general lines of criticism
> appear to be crystallizing.
>
> Criticism No. 1:  NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia is illegal under
> international law.
>
> The critics of the NATO bombing have made a powerful argument that NATO's
> action is illegal because the action was undertaken without the approval
> of the UN Security Council.  They've also argued that the bombing
> constitutes illegal aggression against a sovereign country.
>
> It is clearly difficult to argue that NATO's bombing constitutes the
> operation of a collective security system as envisioned in the United
> Nations Charter.  It may even be aggression under international law.
> Nevertheless, the legal absolutism of some of NATO's critics seems
> misguided, especially considering that the treatment of the Kosovars by
> the Serbian authorities violates norms of human rights enshrined in the
> Geneva Convention, the UN Charter; the Universal Declaration of Human
> Rights; the UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; and
> the UN International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights,
> to name only a few.  Legal proscriptions against war are by no means to
> be casually thrown aside.  Nevertheless, it is well to remember the
> spirit, if not exactly the letter, of Abraham Lincoln's response to those
> who criticized him for suspending the right of _habeas corpus_ during the
> Civil War:  "[A]re all the laws _but one_ to go unexecuted, and the
> government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated?" (Lincoln,
> 1953, p. 430).

COMMENT: In the first instance however the bombing was not justified by reference 
to any violation of human rights by Serb
authorities. It was justified as a technique to force Milosevic to sign the peace 
accords. That in itself would seem to be a
further violation of international law, the Vienna agreement re treaties. Only later 
is this argument introduced, after the
evacuation of international observers generated conditions under which Milosevic was 
able to engage in massive ethnic cleansing
and no doubt other acts of violence as well, that the justification is offered that 
some moral imperative and violation of
Geneva  conventions by the FRY justify intervention.   Even if this were a reason it 
is not at all plausible as a justification
without further argument. WHy is it that NATO rather than the UN should intervenene? 
How are the Genevea conventions to be
interpreted?
Many would claim that they generate an obligation only within a country's borders. If 
it justifies outside intervention the
questions are: Who is to do the intervening.Who is to decide if the principles are 
violated? Any party that decides it is
justified? What are the implications of this for international law. The argument from 
authority (Lincoln saith) is rather odd
for a Canadian source to use. Is this a polite Orwellianism? Breaking the law to 
preserve the law. ANother pair to join: Bombing
for peace

[PEN-L:6035] Re: from SLATE

[valis]

> Tuesday, April 27: 
> ... a WSJ front-page feature reports that the "almost gentlemanly
> approach" of the war's first month will change because of a key decision
> ratified behind closed doors by NATO's leaders last Friday: to henceforth
> endorse raids on political as well as military targets.

The "almost gentlemanly approach"?  Technically true: not a single missile
has cruised a woman so far.  Indeed, I hope this WSJ article gets back to 
Belgrade posthaste, to be used for purposes of moral suasion when NATO 
ground troops first wander into mortar range, and when business-suited
Yugoslav saboteurs search the streets of New York for appropriate targets.
Yes, let's keep this party civil!
   valis

[PEN-L:6033] Re: RE: Re: welfare coverage

[Doug Henwood]

Max Sawicky wrote:

>>  Well, there was an excellent letter in the Washington
>> Post this morning from Carol Fennelly that pointed out
>> that the bottom line on all this should be reducing poverty,
>> that all these governors and others (Clinton) are patting
>> themselves on the back because welfare rolls are down
>> (and employment is up, making the former easier to pull
>> off).  But the poverty rate has barely budged.  Bah!
>> Barkley Rosser
>
>Actually it's gone up, as the recovery has proceeded.
>The rising tide has not lifted all boats.

U.S. POVERTY RATE

1989  12.8
1990  13.5
1991  14.2
1992  14.8
1993  15.1
1994  14.5
1995  13.8
1996  13.7
1997  13.3

Doug

[PEN-L:6032] Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Josh Mason]

Jim Devine:

>I'm all in favor of freeing the slaves. But it's not an unmixed
blessing. In
>some places in the Caribbean, I understand that the slave-owners
freed
>their own slaves in order to avoid the responsibility of keeping them
alive.

Some thought about the demographics of the Caribbean might lead you to
reconsider your example, if not your broader point. I don't have any
numbers in front of me (a condition of my exile here in DC is that I
only get to see my books on weekends) but I'm fairly sure that
throughout the region, life expectancies increased dramatically after
emancipation, and population growth rates changed from sharply negative
to positive.

I'm not a big fan of world-systems theory, but when Immanuel
Wallerstein says that the shift from dependent to wage labor is almost
always an advance for workers, it sounds right to me.

Josh

[PEN-L:6031] Re: Re: graffitti

[Charles Brown]

>>> Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/26/99 11:08PM >>>
Speaking of such, I was at a meeting of the parents of kids with autistic
spectrum disorder (as I am so often) and someone mentioned Clinton's
hypocritical speech about Littleton concerning teaching the kids not to use
violence (often quoted on pen-l). It was amazing. All the people who were
willing to speak were critical of Clinton's war. It was totally
spontaneous. There was no support for the war. It didn't last, because we
were talking about more personal matters, but it was a sign of things to come.

Obviously, it wasn't a random sample of popular opinion. The West Side of
LA is pretty liberal (in the old sense, before liberalism got into using
war to back their crusades). 



Chas: I heard a report that Clinton's approval rating is down (different from the 
polls directly on approval of the bombing).


Charles Brown

[PEN-L:5994] Re: Re: RE: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

[Doug Henwood]

Michael Perelman wrote:

>Wasn't Laura Tyson's dissertation on Yugo?
>
>Max Sawicky wrote:
>
>> > We are interested in putting together a press release of sources on the
>> > role of the IMF in contributing to the break-up of Yugoslavia and the
>> > exacerbation of ethnic tensions there. (and perhaps also this pattern for
>> > the IMF more generally, e.g. Rwanda.) Who would you suggest for
>> > this topic? . . .
>>
>> There's a Brookings study on the IMF screwing up the Yugo economy, leading
>> to the beginning of dissolution of the federation.  by a woman, don't
>> remember her name.
>>
>> mbs
>

There's a chapter in Cheryl Payer's The Debt Trap about Yugo's relations
with the IMF, going back to the early 50s. She emphasizes the growth of
Croatian separatism in the 1970s, and, following Tito, an unholy domestic
alliance of nationalists, liberals, and technocrats with the IMF.

Doug

[PEN-L:5996] RE: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Max Sawicky]

Courtesy of Prof. Phillips:

> The Sunday Telegraph  25
> April 1999
>
> NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC
>
>   by Edward Luttwak


Like I suggested last week (two weeks ago?) in "Nato and Milosevic:  Lovers'
Quarrel."

It follows that a cessation of bombing, the retention of the Milosevic
regime, and some kind of half-assed solution (sell-out) of Kosovo was the
U.S./NATO aim at the start.  This is precisely the solution called for now
by all the lefter-than-thou anti-imperialists (sic).

So who is the stooge for NATO?

The flies in the ointment of stable, good-for-business tyranny on the
periphery of the EU were first, the KLA, who engaged in terrorism in order
to provoke Milo to go ape (they understood his history in Bosnia and had his
profile down) and bring in Nato, and second, Milo, who being an ape went
much further than anticipated rather than make a deal.

Since the U.S. public is unlikely to buy into a serious ground war, the only
question is when Milo will stop being an idiot and accept a compromise in
order to stop the bombing.  Kosova will be screwed, and some folks will feel
good about helping to block NATO's evil plans to conquer the Balkans, plans
that were never made because there is no need for Nato to conquer the
Balkans.  The Balkans are already fated to integrate into EU/IMF capitalism.
"Yugoslavia" will be lining up with all the rest, though they will have
moved to the rear of the queue.  Russia can't sell out soon enough.  Fear of
a nascent working class in the former Soviet Union?  It is to laugh.

The way to truly destabilize the New Order in Europe would be to insist on a
little justice, such as -- but not limited to -- the right to
self-determination for *really* oppressed nationalities, such as in Kosova.
What a calamity!  National enclaves throughout the world raising questions
about racism and other types of chauvinism, and about underdevelopment of
their regions vis-a-vis the rest of their nations.  If Kosova was liberated,
what would we say to the Kurds or the Palestinians?  Carping about the
hypocrisy of Nato supporting Kosovo but not others is seeing this affair
backwards.  Nato CANNOT support Kosova because it raises the profile of
other troublesome claimants.  This was not about splitting up Yugoslavia;
there was hardly anything left of it anyway.  It was about containing the
factional strife within what remains of Yugoslavia -- of preventing further
violence and refugees.  Milo and the KLA didn't follow the plan; each
anticipated dissatisfaction with what they would come out with.  Milo's
willingness to be ruthless has improved his bargaining position.  The KLA
was being dealt out and acted out of desperation, and probably for naught
(in retrospect).

There is a slim chance that NATO could follow Blair's lead and decide to
really topple the Serbian regime.  One might ask, if war is so much beloved
by capitalism, why the U.S. hasn't already gone into Iraq and done this very
thing.  In the Iraqi case a military conquest has already been shown to be
eminently practical.  Of course, in neither Iraq nor Serbia would
"nation-building" be easy.  But neither regime is all that objectionable at
their cores to the West.  The fundamental arguments are over secondary
matters.

I could be wrong, or you could all have been hoodwinked.  Presently there is
strong public support for bombing; we know Willie is a close reader of
polls.  This means that in principle Nato could bomb indefinitely -- as in
Iraq -- until they get whatever they want.  Thus if they cease bombing it
means they didn't want much to begin with.  I'd say that if Nato settles for
a deal with Milo that allows this "war criminal" to save face and retain
most of Kosova, it proves the fix was in from the get-go.  If they try to
invade and take over Serbia proper, the Nato Imperialist Crusade thesis is
upheld.

mbs

[PEN-L:5998] Re: RE: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Rob Schaap]

G'day Max.

Reckon you're taking some liberties with this lot:

>It follows that a cessation of bombing, the retention of the Milosevic
>regime, and some kind of half-assed solution (sell-out) of Kosovo was the
>U.S./NATO aim at the start.  This is precisely the solution called for now
>by all the lefter-than-thou anti-imperialists (sic).

Firstly, most of us opposed the bombing because it could not, in itself,
possibly realise the professed ends in whose name it was conducted.  People
were gonna get killed, maimed, dispossessed and dislocated for no reason
that had anything to do with NATO's crocodile tears and apple pie bleatings.

Secondly, whatever solutions (and not all of us professed a clue as to what
might have solved the problems as at 22 March) were available at the outset,
are now mostly beyond reach (eg. Serbian anti-Milosovic dynamics, the
Serbian parliamentary compromise of 23 April, Rugova's gradualist strategy
etc), and the scope of possible positive changes has been severely limited
by NATO's vicious nonsense.

Thirdly, bombing and impoverishing people is a great way to exacerbate
identities like those of the bloody nationalists.  No-one's bombing and
impoverishing Murdoch, and he hasn't a nationalist bone in his body, whereas
a lot of people living around his farm here in southern NSW have long been
doing it very tough and have just voted a self-identified
'national-socialist' Hansonite into the state upper house.  A sad trend in
the west these days is that as capital gets more internationalist, the
proletariat and petit-bourgeoisie are becoming defensively and belligerently
nationalist.  You gotta multiply that by some significant factor to allow
for the life experience of a Serb or an Albanian.  Both are likely to come
out of this with shining eyes to match their emaciated features.

Lastly, to come up with a 'solution' now is to respond to a whole new
priority - that of stopping the slaughter and destruction wrought by NATO
bombs, Serb responses, and those of the almost wholly newly constituted KLA.
 Serbs and Albanaian Kosovars alike are gonna be paying a big price for it,
but not to pay that price is now to pay an altogether bigger one.

In short, very few of us opposed the principle of Kosovar
'autonomy'/'independence' (although I, for one - & mebbe Rugova for two - 
didn't have a clue how it might come about in any meaningful way - in the
short term at least).  We merely opposed - and still oppose - 'strategic
bombing.  Because it kills and impoverishes the innocent and PRECISELY
BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HELP, IN ANY WAY, ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF ANY OF
YUGOSLAVIA'S PEOPLES.

As an afterthought, would it be a bit paranoid of me to inquire into the
timing of the NATO strike?  I mean, if Serbia's parliament did do something
very like what Serbia did in 1914 (ie accept pretty well everything the
imposed Rambo-eh document demanded with only the proviso that the occupying
troops not be under NATO control) on the 23rd of March, might we discern in
NATO's immediate resort to bombing (the following morning) evidence that
what was sought was a pretext and not the sudden appearance of waht might
have been a solution?

>The Balkans are already fated to integrate into EU/IMF capitalism.
>"Yugoslavia" will be lining up with all the rest, though they will have
>moved to the rear of the queue.  Russia can't sell out soon enough.  Fear
of
>a nascent working class in the former Soviet Union?  It is to laugh.

The conditions under which this integration must now take place (esp. the
position from which Yugoslavia would be dealing) have been much altered by
the bombing - because the bombing has destroyed so much of Yugoslavia's
productive capacity - the WB/IMF can now have their wicked way with a
desperate pile of ashes and skinny people (who are even now becoming
refugees themselves - again withouit a skerrick of western sympathy and
aid). 

>The way to truly destabilize the New Order in Europe would be to insist on
a
>little justice, such as -- but not limited to -- the right to
>self-determination for *really* oppressed nationalities, such as in Kosova.
>What a calamity!  National enclaves throughout the world raising questions
>about racism and other types of chauvinism, and about underdevelopment of
>their regions vis-a-vis the rest of their nations.  If Kosova was
liberated,
>what would we say to the Kurds or the Palestinians?  Carping about the
>hypocrisy of Nato supporting Kosovo but not others is seeing this affair
>backwards.  

Pointing at inconsistency was not the whole anti-bombing argument - and it
was not the theme of that critique by any means.  It was merely presented in
evidence as reason to suspect something other than NATO's PR bleatings was
at the root of the adventure.  I think it's pretty compelling evidence
meself.

>There is a slim chance that NATO could follow Blair's lead and decide to
>really topple the Serbian regime.  One might ask, if war is so much beloved
>by capitalism, why

[PEN-L:5999] Re: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Kjell S Johansen]

At 09:04 27.04.99 +0200, you wrote:
>>Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:31:02 -0500
>>Subject: [PEN-L:5989] (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC
>>Priority: normal
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.08 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN
>>
I tried to redirect this to a list in Norway, but it turned up here. I'm
sorry, but can anybody tell me why


Kjell S. Johansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sildråpevn 44 E
N-7048 Trondheim
Norway

[PEN-L:6000] Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Rod Hay]

For academics and other middle class activists graffitti is not a 
choice option of communication. But for many it is the only method of 
conveying a message to a large number of people. It is often a 
spontaneous expression of emotion and political frustration 
particularly among the young. And may be an effective means of 
communication to others in that age group.



Rod Hay 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
The History of Economic Thought Archives 
http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html 
Batoche Books 
http://www.abebooks.com/home/BATOCHEBOOKS/ 
 
 


__
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[PEN-L:6002] Re: Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Carrol Cox]

Thomas Kruse wrote:

> This country has a beautiful future ... but will it survive the present?

This is one of the most beautiful epigrams I have ever seen. I presume
the original was in Spanish -- and it is short enough so that even my
high school spanish might encompass it. Could you quote the original.

Carrol

[PEN-L:6003] Re: Kosovo: A Response to the Critics

[Ricardo Duchesne]

Date:  Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:29:02 -0500
Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:  "Jeffrey L. Beatty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject:   Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics

(Apologies for multiple postings).


The present hostilities in Kosovo are arguably the Internet's "first
war", much as Vietnam was television's "first war" and the Gulf War was
the war that saw CNN come of age as a major mass media outlet.  Perhaps
predictably, information about the conflict has become confusing and
contradictory.  Much of the information has to be viewed through jaded
eyes as the propaganda machinery on both sides of the conflict has gone
into high gear.


Having said all that, I want to offer (risk?) a reply to some of the
criticisms of NATO policy that have been offered on the lists I post to
and elsewhere over the last months.  The general lines of criticism
appear to be crystallizing.



Criticism No. 1:  NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia is illegal under
international law.


The critics of the NATO bombing have made a powerful argument that NATO's
action is illegal because the action was undertaken without the approval
of the UN Security Council.  They've also argued that the bombing
constitutes illegal aggression against a sovereign country.


It is clearly difficult to argue that NATO's bombing constitutes the
operation of a collective security system as envisioned in the United
Nations Charter.  It may even be aggression under international law. 
Nevertheless, the legal absolutism of some of NATO's critics seems
misguided, especially considering that the treatment of the Kosovars by
the Serbian authorities violates norms of human rights enshrined in the
Geneva Convention, the UN Charter; the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights; the UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; and
the UN International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights,
to name only a few.  Legal proscriptions against war are by no means to
be casually thrown aside.  Nevertheless, it is well to remember the
spirit, if not exactly the letter, of Abraham Lincoln's response to those
who criticized him for suspending the right of _habeas corpus_ during the
Civil War:  "[A]re all the laws _but one_ to go unexecuted, and the
government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated?" (Lincoln,
1953, p. 430).  



Criticism No. 2:  The Serbs have been unfairly demonized.


It's been argued on these lists in the last few weeks that Serbian
violations of the human rights of the Kosovars have been greatly
exaggerated.  It's even been suggested that there's no evidence that the
Serbs are mounting a systematic campaign of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. 
Regardless of the exact number of persons killed and displaced by ethnic
cleansing might be, and "hard" data on the subject is naturally difficult
to obtain, it remains true that respected non-governmental organizations
in Kosovo, including the American Red Cross, World Vision, Human Rights
Watch, and Amnesty International, have all reported interviews with
refugees that present a credible and consistent story of refugees being
forcibly removed from their homes by the Serbian authorities.  

Accounts from these organizations are available at the various Web sites,
listed below.


It's also been argued that within the former Yugoslavia, the Serbs are
not alone in their chauvinism and use of ethnic cleansing.  The Croats
and Bosnians have both embraced similar chauvinistic ideologies, as
illustrated by the writings of Franjo Tudjman and Alija Izetbegovic.  The
Croats, at least, have been accused of ethnic cleansing.  Unfortunately,
this "plague of both your houses" argument, whatever basis in fact it may
have, doesn't legitimize Serbian ethnic cleansing.  To claim otherwise
would be to commit a "so's-your-old-man fallacy."  Nor does it defeat the
argument for intervention by NATO, any more than pointing out the nature
of the combatants in a turf war among mobsters or street gangs is an
argument against intervention by the police.



Criticism No. 3:  The plight of the refugees from Kosovo has been
worsened by the NATO bombing.


It's been argued on these lists that NATO's bombing has had the effect of
simply turning more Kosovars into refugees.  According to one version of
this argument, the bombing has caused the Serbs to step up their campaign
of ethnic cleansing.  According to a second version, the refugees are not
fleeing from ethnic cleansing, but from the NATO bombardment itself.


The first version of this argument is the stronger one, in my view. 
Nevertheless, it contains the counterfactual assumption that ethnic
cleansing would have proceeded at a slower pace or not taken place at all
in the absence of NATO bombing.  In view of Mr. Milosevic's record over
the last ten years, it is difficult for me to believe that it would have
not taken place at all.  So for at least some of the Kosovars, it's not
unreasonabl

[PEN-L:6004] Re: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

[Carrol Cox]

Sort of a Query.

In conversation at various times I have introduced the probably quite
outlandishly extravagant proposition that the greatest mass murderer
of the 20th century is the IMF/World Bank. And usually, either
surprisingly or not surprisingly, I have gotten at least murmurs of "You

could be right."

Could that observation be in any way rationally supported as a valid
proposition?

This is a real not a rhetorical question. I assume tht most on this list
are IMF
haters. I'm just curious as to how strong an expression we can
legitimately
give our hatred.

Carrol

[PEN-L:6005] BLS Daily Report

[Richardson_D]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--_=_NextPart_000_01BE90B0.42209950

BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, APRIL 26, 1999

The Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service finds that, for the third
consecutive year, about one-fourth of newly certified unions reach a
collective bargaining agreements during the year in which the cases were
assigned to a mediator.  In data to be released as part of the agency's
fiscal year 1998 annual report, the FMCS says that initial agreements were
received in about 23 percent of the cases assigned to its mediators.  In
both FY 1997 and 1996, the proportion was about 24 percent, according to the
agency's statistics. ...  Information from an MIT survey of contract notices
filed with the FMCS also included trends in contracts that were up for
renegotiation in different industries, as described in a lengthy article
published by BLS in the October 1998 issue of the "Monthly Labor Review."
The article looked at how labor and management view collective bargaining in
different ways and provided summary data on various aspects of bargaining
(Pam Ginsbach in the Daily Labor Report, page A-2).

The prevalence of downsizings and mergers in recent decades has made job
security a top priority for union bargainers.   Increasingly, one of the
strategies unions are using to provide greater protection is to negotiate
contracts that require companies to invest capital to enhance the long-term
stability of their facilities, labor and management officials and labor
relations specialists tell the Bureau of National Affairs in interviews. ...
Bargaining to ensure capital investment is most common in auto, steel, and
other industries where job viability is contingent upon management's
willingness to reinvest capital in its operations. ...  (Daily Labor Report
page C-1).

The Employment Cost Index for first quarter 1999, to be released by BLS
Thursday, is predicted to rise 0.8 percent, according to The Wall Street
Journal feature "Tracking the Economy" (page A4).  The previous quarter's
rise was 0.7 percent.


--_=_NextPart_000_01BE90B0.42209950

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[PEN-L:6006] World Systems Network pro-Nato post

[Louis Proyect]

>From:  "Jeffrey L. Beatty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Having said all that, I want to offer (risk?) a reply to some of the
>criticisms of NATO policy that have been offered on the lists I post to
>and elsewhere over the last months.  The general lines of criticism
>appear to be crystallizing.

Why doesn't it surprise me that a defense of NATO crops up on WSN? I got
mailbombed by a student from that mailing-list after crossposting
criticisms of the war just after receiving a note from a U. of Pittsburgh
professor complaining about being "bombarded" by news of the war. This guy
Beatty is a frequent contributor to the International Political Economy
(IPE) list at CSF as well. I have heard through the grapevine that this
list attracts a lot of right-wing policy wonks as well. The general picture
I have of these lists is of academicians who seem barely conscious of the
Marxist roots of the global or international discipline they are
professionally tied to. The University of Pittsburgh professor proudly
announces on his webpage that one of his research projects in Latin America
was funded by the World Bank. What a disgrace.




Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)

[PEN-L:6007] Sit-in at Bernie Sanders' office in Vermont

[Louis Proyect]

April 27, 1999

Yesterday, April 26, 1999, a rally and march were held in Burlington,
Vermont, USA against the U.S. war on Yugoslavia. Approximately 100 people
attended the 45 minute rally at the University of Vermont campus and then
marched down Main Street. The destination of the march were the local
offices of Vermont three congressional members: Senators Leahy (Dem.) and
Jeffords (Rep.), and Rep. Bernie Sanders. The purpose of these visits was
to present petitions calling for "an immediate end to the bombing, a return
to the negotiating table… and no introduction of NATO ground forces to the
conflict". These 1,000 signatures on these petitions were collected in a
little over two weeks time.

At Senator Leahy's office, a small delegation of demonstrators went into
the office, presented the petitions and were served cookies. At Senator
Jeffords' office, the delegation that went inside asked for and received a
conference call with Mr. Jeffords' foreign policy advisor in Washington,
D.C.. From there, we headed to Bernie Sanders' office at the top of
Burlington's downtown pedestrian mall (Church Street). Once we arrived at
the office building , the remaining protestors (approximately 30 in all)
headed inside and up the stairs to Sanders' office. We were met by his
staff who presented us with a written statement by Mr. Sanders concerning
his support of the bombing. Those present read the statement and then asked
a member of the staff if we could hold a conference call with Bernie and
give him a chance to justify his position. We were told this was not
possible because Sanders was on a plane to Washington, D.C. and he did not
own a cell phone. So we sat down and informed the staff that we would wait
until we could speak with Sanders.

Seattle musician Jim Page happens to be in Burlington this week and he had
accompanied us on the march. While we sat in the office, he played guitar
and sang songs in between discussions about the war, the killings in
Littleton, CO., the arrogance of liberals in power and numerous other
subjects took place. As time passed, it became clear that Bernie had no
intention of talking to us. After conversations out of our earshot, the
primary staffperson informed us that we could meet with Bernie next Tuesday
if we made an appointment. This suggestion was rejected out of hand; the
reasoning being that hundreds more would die in the interim. Time ticked on.

Around 5:30 PM, we were asked again if we wanted to accept the meeting with
Bernie next Tuesday. We agreed to the meeting but also insisted on speaking
with Sanders that day. Furthermore, we affirmed that we would not leave the
office until we spoke with Bernie that evening. We were than told that our
choice was to either leave then and meet with Sanders next week or stay
until we were removed and not meet with the congressmen at all. At 6:00 PM
or so, we were asked once again if we would assent to this arrangement.
Once again we said no. At 6:45 PM, Burlington police officers began
arresting those protestors who refused to leave when asked. This was done
at the request of Congressman Sanders and his staff. The arrests were
conducted in an orderly fashion and all were released later in the evening.

This was the first time Sanders office had ever been occupied. One has to
wonder if it will be the last, given his continual drift rightward. (For
those who live in Vermont-There will be a Vermont town meeting on the war
with Sanders in Montpelier, VT. on Monday, May 3, 1999 at the Pavilion. The
meeting begins at 7:00 PM. Please come and bring your friends.) 

-Ron Jacobs, Burlington, VT.

Ron Jacobs\\\I never intend to 
Bailey Howe Library\\\to adjust myself to 
University of Vermontthe madness of militarism
Burlington, VT-Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://moose.uvm.edu/~rjacobs/ronshome.html


Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)

[PEN-L:6010] RE: Re: Kosovo: A Response to the Critics

[Max Sawicky]

> Date:  Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:29:02 -0500
> Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From:  "Jeffrey L. Beatty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:   Kosovo:  A Response to the Critics
> X-To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> The present hostilities in Kosovo . . .

Thanks for this excellent post.

I would even be so bold as to suggest that its author is no less
virtuous than our own Saint Louis.

mbs

[PEN-L:6012] Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Mark Rickling]

Jim Devine wrote:

>Others have replied to Brad on this so I'll try not to repeat their points.
>EP Thompson reminds us that the onset of capitalism led to the _rise_ in
>hours worked per year. So how good capitalism looks depends on your
>standard of comparison. Also, the reduction of working hours per year (in
>the advanced capitalist countries) has also been a _victory_ of labor
>unions, social-democratic parties, and the like. It wasn't handed to us on
>a platter. 

Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.

mark



NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download.html

[PEN-L:6014] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Henry C.K. Liu]

And they are cracking down on accessing the internet on company time!
Time to organize a cyber strike!

Henry C.K. Liu

Mark Rickling wrote:

> Jim Devine wrote:
>
> >Others have replied to Brad on this so I'll try not to repeat their points.
> >EP Thompson reminds us that the onset of capitalism led to the _rise_ in
> >hours worked per year. So how good capitalism looks depends on your
> >standard of comparison. Also, the reduction of working hours per year (in
> >the advanced capitalist countries) has also been a _victory_ of labor
> >unions, social-democratic parties, and the like. It wasn't handed to us on
> >a platter.
>
> Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
> and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
> work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.
>
> mark
>
> 
> NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
> http://www.netzero.net/download.html

[PEN-L:6015] Re: Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Henry C.K. Liu]

Graffitti art, like all art, includes the good and the bad.  One cannot ban the
bad without also banning the good.  Just go to any museum and gallery, depending
on one's taste, social/political attitude, most of the content are bad by
definition.  Still, it is a price worth paying to be able to see the good.

Henry C.K. Liu

Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:

> At 08:08 PM 4/26/99 -0700, Jim Devive wrote:
> >I don't think so. Grafitti is ugly, especially in a nice neighborhood of
> >residential apartments; in LA it's associated with gangs, who almost noone
> >likes.  There must be better tactics, especially since graffitti encourages
> > the use of simplistic slogans such as "NATO swastika".
>
> Well, my son was active on the grafitti scene here in Baltimore and he says
> that the alleged "gang connection" is a lame excuse cops use to crack on
> the grafitti artists.  Most of the grafitti art is not done by "gangs" but
> by "crews" - that is, groups of young people who do mainly grafitti (as
> opposed to other "gang business").
>
> Grafitti is a form of public art, and is actually very popular in Europe;
> see for example:
>
> http://www.graffiti.org/
>
> which contains links to various grafitti sites across the world.
>
> I think the opposition to grafitti in the US comes mainly from two sources:
>
> - grafitti involves an act of 'reclaiming" of a 'private' space for the
> display of public art; and since the USers tend to be fearful of anything
> public (where they cound encounter people different than themselves) they
> distrust an art form that is anti-thetical to the idea of 'private.'
>
> - the adult USers tend to be violently anti-youth, they are afraid of the
> young people, hate their culture, and are very passionate about
> disciplining the them (cf. the nauseating exuberance that caning of an US
> teenagager in Singapore provoked in this country) - so they naturally
> despise grafitti as an expression of the youth culture.
>
> Wojtek

[PEN-L:6016] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Brad De Long]

Jim Devine wrote:

>Others have replied to Brad on this so I'll try not to repeat their points.
>EP Thompson reminds us that the onset of capitalism led to the _rise_ in
>hours worked per year.

Very true...

>
>Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
>and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
>work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.
>

I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
capitalism are pretty good...

Brad DeLong

[PEN-L:6018] Why we are occupying Bernie Sanders' office

[Louis Proyect]

Instant Antiwar Action Group
Contact: Will Miller
Press Release
cell phone (802) 343-1169

April 26th, 1999

Why We are Occupying Bernie Sander's Burlington Office:

[Burlington, VT] I am writing on behalf of the anarcho-socialist-feminist
and anti-racist left in Vermont, some 25 of whom are sitting next to me in
this occupation. We are in Bernie's Sander's office to help bring a halt to
the escalating war in Yugoslavia and the ongoing war against Iraq, both
supported by Sanders.

Many of us worked on Bernie's campaigns through 1980's, the years he
was--as the local press repeatedly put it--the "avowed socialist" Mayor of
Burlington, Vermont. His descent into de facto membership the Democratic
party has been a major setback for the task of building a real electoral
alternative to the two factions of the corporate property that monopolize
what passes for political choice in the United States. Bernie's selling out
says clearly to working people and those unable to find work that even
leftists become mainstream politicians, when and if they win office.

Sanders presented himself to the left outside of Vermont as the leader of
the third party movement, vanquishing the two major parties in every
Mayoral election from 1981-88.

When he first got elected Mayor of Burlington he was the only elected U.S.
official to attend the anniversary of the Sandinista Revolution in Managua.
The Gannett owned Burlington Free Press said he had to be removed from
office "by any means necessary." Now that same Burlington Free Press
endorses his Congressional candidacy.

Bernie became an imperialist to get elected in 1990. In August, 1990--after
the Bush administration enticed Iraq into invading Kuwait--Sanders said he
wasn't "going to let some damn war cost him the election," according to a
staff member who was present at the time. So Sanders backed the buildup in
the Persian Gulf and dumped on the left anti-imperialist peace movement,
singling out his former allies like Dave Dellinger for public criticism.

He lost in 1988 Congressional race, the last time the Democratic party ran
an official candidate against him. In that election Sanders and the
Democrat, Paul Poirer, split the majority of votes and the election went to
the Republican, Peter Smith.

Bernie--out of office for the first time in eight years--then went to the
Kennedy School at Harvard for six months and came back with a new
relationship with the state's Democrats. The Vermont Democratic Party
leadership has allowed no authorized candidate to run against Bernie in
1990 (or since) and in return, Bernie has repeatedly blocked third party
building. His closet party, the Democrats, are very worried about a left
3rd party forming in Vermont. In the last two elections, Sanders has
prevented Progressives in his machine from running against Howard Dean, our
conservative Democratic Governor who was ahead of Gingrich in the attack on
welfare.

The unauthorized Democratic candidate in 1990, Delores Sandoval, an African
American faculty member at the University of Vermont, was amazed that the
official party treated her as a nonperson and Bernie kept outflanking her
to her right. She opposed the Gulf build-up, Bernie supported it. She
supported decriminalization of drug use and Bernie defended the war on
drugs, and so on.

After being safely elected in November of 1990, Bernie continued to support
the buildup while seeking membership in the Democratic Congressional
Caucus--with the enthusiastic support of the Vermont Democratic Party
leadership. But, the national Democratic Party blew him off, so he finally
voted against the war and returned home--and as the war began--belatedly
claimed to be the leader of the anti-war movement in Vermont.

Since 1991 the Democrats have given Bernie membership in their
Congressional Caucus. Reciprocally, Bernie has become an ardent
imperialist. Sanders endorsed Clinton in 1992 and 1996. In 1992 he
described Clinton as the "lesser of evils," ( a justification he used to
denounce when he was what the local press called an "avowed socialist"). By
1996 he gave Clinton an unqualified endorsement. He has been a consistent
"Friend of Bill's" from since 1992. One student I knew worked on the
Clinton Campaign in 1996 and all across Vermont, Bernie was on the stage
with the rest of the Vermont Democratic Party Leadership, while the
unauthorized Democratic candidate for his Congressional seat was kept out
in the audience.

Sanders continues to support sanctions even though the Iraqi body count has
now passed 1.5 million. Just as he has supported every bombing of Iraq
since 1992. When Clinton sent military units to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in
October, 1994 because Iraq moved troops inside Iraq closer to the Kuwait
border (apparently about 100 miles away), Bernie supported this because "we
cannot tolerate aggression."

As a Congressman in Vermont he has allied himself the MIA/POW crowd, the
American Legion and the VFW, the very groups that red baited him

[PEN-L:6019] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on workinghours

[Jim Devine]

At 09:33 AM 4/27/99 -0700, Brad wrote:
>I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
capitalism are pretty good...<

I'm glad to know that it's better to be a proletarian than a slave.
However, like most such comparisons, there's a trade-off. The slaves may
have to work like crazy (and submit to sexual and other abuse), but the
slave-owner does make efforts to preserve the value of his or her assets.
Freeing the slaves has too often meant that the slaves still have to work
like crazy (for the landowner cum company store owner cum money-lender cum
political leader) while the latter doesn't care about preserving the slaves
at all. The sharecroppers only create an interest by others in "preserving"
them when they get to the city and put political pressure on the government
to develop welfare-state programs and the like. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of freeing the slaves (as long as we
don't do it by strategic bombing ;-)). But it's not an unmixed blessing. In
some places in the Caribbean, I understand that the slave-owners freed
their own slaves in order to avoid the responsibility of keeping them alive. 

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html
Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!

[PEN-L:6021] Re: Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[S Pawlett]

Thomas Kruse wrote:

> Graffitti here is pretty amazing, ranging from highly political, to
> personal and poetic.  There is little tagging.  Many people find the walls
> the place to write verse; some if it is relly pretty good.
>
> A student om mine did a research project on it and found that the artists
> were not just young students, but also a frustrated lawyer, a young priest,
> etc.  One anarchist feminist group is particularly good -- the Mujeres
> Creando (Women Creating).  Many people (me too) activly look for there
> stuff, in reaction to events.
>
> A couple of my favorites from Cochabamba walls:
>
> I have a poster of all of you on my wall.
>---[signed] Che
>
> This country has a beautiful future ... but will it survive the present?
>

I would second this. Graffiti can be a great way to get the message out and to
spread the word. Latin America has a much more developed graffiti culture than
North America. It is much more acceptable. Even the mainstream political
parties do it. In some countries, every wall in the city is covered with
graffiti. I've seen dates, times and places advertising riots written in spray
paint.

How about in Vallegrande:
Che alive like they never wanted you.

[PEN-L:6020] Stiglitz Bites Bullet: Poverty Increasing

[S Pawlett]

Reuters ran a story today summarizing the findings of a recent World
Bank Study. (the annual development report?):

Stiglitz:" We must be more cautious of programs that promote growth in
ways that are not sustainable or which save the economy, or at least the
exchange rate, but at the cost of increased poverty, interrupting
education or declining life expectancy."

Comment: This may be the closest the WB will come to admitting that its
and IMF's programs cause poverty.

" Despite the significant gains in development, the gap between the rich
and the poor is widening and if you look at many countries income
distribution is worsening, increasing the social pain of economic
failure. Nowhere are these problems more evident than in the former
states of the Soviet Union"

Comment: What does he mean by "development"? If poverty is increasing in
all of the areas studied, what does that say for develpment? or the
meaning of the term "development" that the bank works with?

Reuters: " The report estimates that 1.5 billion people are living  at
below $1 a day, the measure for poverty in the world's poorest
countries, compared with 1.3 billion in 1993. The bank survey attributes
the shrinking opportunity to improve human living conditions to a rapid
spread of AIDS in Africa, the lingering effects of the Asian financial
crisis and chaos in the former East Bloc nations. In Eastern Europe and
the former Soviet Union, the bank calculated the number of people living
under the poverty line of $4 a day has grown to 147 million from 14
million in 1989."

Comment:! There are no attempts to link these causes of increasing
poverty. The bank sees no connection between "chaos" in fSU and "Asian
financial crisis" or AIDS. What are the causes of this "chaos" and this
"financial crisis"?

" In 10 Sub-Saharan countries, life expectancy has deterioted by 10
years in the past decades as HIV and AIDS have infected 10% of the adult
population. In Indonesia, one of the countries affected by the Asian
financial crisis that started in Thailand in July 1997, before spreading
throughout the region , up to 20% of the population is living is poverty
compared to just 7% two years ago, Stiglitz said"

Stiglitz isn't stupid. It should be pretty clear by now who benefits
from SAP's and why they are implemented. If the bank really wants to
ameliorate poverty, it will have to radically alter its philosophy and
its program. Deep down, I think Stiglitz knows this.

Sam Pawlett

[PEN-L:6023] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Michael Perelman]

I assume you are referring to Sally Hennings?

Brad De Long wrote:

> I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
> perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
> Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
> capitalism are pretty good...
>
> Brad DeLong



--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901

[PEN-L:6022] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on workinghours

[Henry C.K. Liu]

Jim Devine wrote:

> Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of freeing the slaves (as long as we
> don't do it by strategic bombing ;-)). But it's not an unmixed blessing. In
> some places in the Caribbean, I understand that the slave-owners freed
> their own slaves in order to avoid the responsibility of keeping them alive.
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
> http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html
> Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!

It is the equivalent of corporation rehiring laid-off workers as tenporaries to
escape labor law requirements of employee benefits.

Henry C.K. Liu

Re: [PEN-L:6021] Re: Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Anthony D'Costa]

Although I don't have any catchy slogans to post, graffiti is fairly
common in large cities in India, and especially Calcutta.  Almost the
entire election campaigns are expressed through graffities, interspersed
with some commercials for local remedies for various illnesses, rat
poisons, and astrology.  Walls are "captured" well before the elections
and some are reserved permanently by parties.  The CPI (M) along with the
more radical CPI (M-L) do indeed have great art.  Perhaps the difference
with graffiti in Latin America would be absence of individual artistic
expression, except as conveyed through party lines.

 
Anthony P. D'Costa
Associate Professor
Comparative International Development
University of Washington
1900 Commerce Street
Tacoma, WA 98402, USA
 
Phone: (253) 692-4462
Fax :  (253) 692-5612

On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, S Pawlett wrote:

> Thomas Kruse wrote:
> 
> > Graffitti here is pretty amazing, ranging from highly political, to
> > personal and poetic.  There is little tagging.  Many people find the walls
> > the place to write verse; some if it is relly pretty good.
> >
> > A student om mine did a research project on it and found that the artists
> > were not just young students, but also a frustrated lawyer, a young priest,
> > etc.  One anarchist feminist group is particularly good -- the Mujeres
> > Creando (Women Creating).  Many people (me too) activly look for there
> > stuff, in reaction to events.
> >
> > A couple of my favorites from Cochabamba walls:
> >
> > I have a poster of all of you on my wall.
> >---[signed] Che
> >
> > This country has a beautiful future ... but will it survive the present?
> >
> 
> I would second this. Graffiti can be a great way to get the message out and to
> spread the word. Latin America has a much more developed graffiti culture than
> North America. It is much more acceptable. Even the mainstream political
> parties do it. In some countries, every wall in the city is covered with
> graffiti. I've seen dates, times and places advertising riots written in spray
> paint.
> 
> How about in Vallegrande:
> Che alive like they never wanted you.
> 
> 

[PEN-L:6027] April 28th: Time to Remember

[pamela calla]

Tom L. notes:

>Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is
dedicated
>to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.

On April 28th 1987, Ben Linder was out doing his job: taking water
measurements on wier he had built, to determine the potential for small
hydroelectric plant development in norther Nicaragua.

Laying in wait was a contra "task force".  Shots were fired, grenades
thrown, and 3 were killed: Ben and two Nicaraguan co-workers. Some months
later his folks got an envelope from the State Department; in it were his
watch, wallet and a few other things.

When asked who was responsible for his son's death, David Linder, Ben's
father, responded "someone, who was paid by someone, who was paid by
someone ... and all the way down the president of the United States."

Ben and I were close; we shared a room in Mataglapa; his wake was held in
the office I shared with three nicaraguan co-workers.  I was still doing
architecture then; my first bit of design work actually built in Nicaragua
was the structure around is tombstone.

Tomorrow night at the local factory workers union meeting hall we'll be
talking about Nicaragua, Ben, teh future.

Take a moment tomorrow for Ben; and for all the others sacrificed on the
alter of profit of reasons of state.

Thanks-

Tom

Tom Kruse
Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6029] Re: Re: RE: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

[Michael Hoover]

> Wasn't Laura Tyson's dissertation on Yugo?
> Michael Perelman

can't answer above, but she wrote a monograph on Yugoslavian economic 
performance in the 1970s and co-wrote one on 1980s performance...she
also wrote a book for RAND in the mid-80s on economic adjustment in 
Eastern Europe...Michael Hoover 

[PEN-L:6030] from SLATE

[Jim Devine]

from SLATE's "Today's Papers" column, by Scott Shuger (copyright 1999,
Microsoft).

Tuesday, April 27: 

>... a WSJ front-page feature reports that the "almost gentlemanly
approach" of the war's first month will change because of a key decision
ratified behind closed doors by NATO's leaders last Friday: to henceforth
endorse raids on political as well as military targets.

>... The WP reports that yesterday the CIA held a big ceremony at Langley
to rename its headquarters after George Bush. According to the story, the
current top spook, George Tenet, said in his speech that Bush will be
forever remembered by the CIA's "masters of disguise" for attending an
important intelligence meeting in a disguise, including red wig, thick
glasses and a fake nose. Was this when Bush was meeting with Iranians to
fix the 1980 election or preparation for a Babs-free weekend? The Post,
seems to have gotten a little too caught up in the hosting institution's
ethos and tells readers nothing further.<

Monday, April 26:

>A small AP item in Sunday's NYT reports that President Clinton departed
the NATO summit so quickly that his motorcade abandoned his military aide
who carries the briefcase containing the nuclear launch codes. The aide
re-established this nation's nuclear readiness by walking the four and half
blocks back to the White House. <

button, button, who's got the button?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
http://clawww.lmu.edu/Faculty/JDevine/jdevine.html
Bombing DESTROYS human rights. US/NATO out of Serbia!

[PEN-L:6028] Re: Stiglitz Bites Bullet: Poverty Increasing

[Tom Walker]

Sam Pawlett wrote:

>Reuters ran a story today summarizing the findings of a recent World
>Bank Study. (the annual development report?):
.. . .
>" Despite the significant gains in development, the gap between the rich
>and the poor is widening and if you look at many countries income
>distribution is worsening, increasing the social pain of economic
>failure. Nowhere are these problems more evident than in the former
>states of the Soviet Union"
>
>Comment: What does he mean by "development"? If poverty is increasing in
>all of the areas studied, what does that say for develpment? or the
>meaning of the term "development" that the bank works with?

Pardon me for recycling part of a message I just sent to a friend, which has
some obscure references to contract costing in it. But I promise that as you
get to the end of the message, you will discover a slightly different take
on "development" then what we're used to hearing.

What I'm writing about is a "most of what you think you know is wrong"
version of the history of the second half of the twentieth century. You were
there when we discovered the double-counting error in the OCAW costing
formula. I couldn't believe it when I found it. I spent a week wrestling
with the math to try to figure out what _I_ was doing wrong. Then, after
doing documentary research, I satisfied myself that it was the OCAW formula
that was wrong and not me. 

You were there. Unless I'm imagining things, you understood the
double-counting error. You weren't at the TURB forum where I presented my
paper on contract costing, but I told you about it. Believe me, the
reception was hostile. Go figure. Do you think people reacted that way
because 1. they couldn't understand what I was saying or 2. because I was
telling them "most of what you think you know is wrong"?

The double-counting error in the OCAW costing formula is small potatoes. But
it is a microcosm of the larger problem that I'm working on. To understand
that larger problem requires a reframing of the world history that you grew
up with and think you know. You and I grew up during something called the
"cold war", supposedly between "the communist bloc" and "the free world". As
we reached maturity, we realized that the "communist/free world" dichotomy
didn't jibe with our own experiences and so we revised the way we framed
history. That revision was provisional. 

>From where we stood, terms like "american imperialism" and "class struggle"
allowed us to make more sense of the world than did terms like the "free
enterprise system" and the "communist conspiracy". Then came the
Reagan/Thatcher years and the cold war revisionism that produced Orwellian
subtleties like "freedom fighters" vs. "terrorists" and "totalitarian" vs.
"authoritarian" regimes. Then the left withered and Eastern Europe imploded.
Our conceptual building blocks came tumbling down at the touch of a
transparently invidious word game. No matter how hard we try, we can never
rebuild an understanding of history based on our old, provisional revision.
Nor should we want to.

I have gone back to the old dusty archives -- the "British Museum", so to
speak -- and retrieved a new revision. This revision puts the communist
bloc, the free world, american imperialism, class struggle, authoritarianism
and totalitarianism in an entirely different light. It is not a conspiracy
theory, but . . . most of what you think you know is wrong.

For starters, "neo-liberalism" didn't suddenly burst on the scene in 1979
with the election of Margaret Thatcher. Hayek's and von Mises's critiques of
socialism was hard-wired into both post-war, East Bloc "socialism" and the
"Keynesian welfare state". 

The key players in this drama were VON MISES, who argued in 1920 that
socialism was "impossible" on philosophical grounds because without a price
system based on free market exchange and the profit motive, a central
planning agency of the state couldn't make rational allocations for capital
investment; HAYEK, who was a student of von Mises and extended some of his
epistemological arguments; Lionel ROBBINS, who as head of the London School
of Economics brought Hayek to England in 1932 and fired the "scientific"
shot across the bow of welfare economics (that is to say, economics
concerned with public policy); Oskar LANGE, architect of the post-war East
European system of accounts, who conceded von Mises' main argument and then
went on to demonstrate how a central planning agency could better "simulate"
a free market than could monopoly capitalism; and Paul SAMUELSON, who along
with Abram Bergson developed another response to von Mises, from the
perspective of a monopoloy capitalist welfare state. Bergson, you may be
interested to note, went on to become the chronicler of the inevitable
demise of the Soviet economic system.

Despite their very real differences, what we imprecisely call "Keynesianism"
and "Soviet-style socialism" were both satellites to von Mises's
(sub

[PEN-L:6026] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on workinghours

[pamela calla]

Brad:

You note:

>I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
>perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
>Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
>capitalism are pretty good...

I sent a post a bit ago on how here (Cochbamba) hours are getting longer,
life is becoming one interminable jornada (period of labor) for LOTS of
poeple.  This is capitalist modernity here.  How do you figure that into
your comment?

Tom

Tom Kruse
Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6025] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Henry C.K. Liu]

Don't forget injuries and deaths from environmental and pollution causes. Remember
asbestos?  Cotton picking was definitively safer.

Even today in America, the acceptable casualty rate for high rise construction is
one death per floor.  I don't even want to mention caisson construction which is
exclusively an illegal immigrant field.
Things have not changed much from the days when Chinese laborers were tied to sticks
of dynamite to blast tunnels for American railroads.

Henry C.K. Liu

Tom Lehman wrote:

> On the bulletin board over my computer I've got a picture of a bunch of my pals
> during the 1986 unpleasantness with USX/US Steel.  The guy in the center of the
> picture sitting on the railroad tracks holding the American flag was a good
> strong union man and an excellent and experienced craftsman.  He also was an
> outstanding participant in our union education and training program.  Last year
> around this time he got whacked by a 30 ton bar of steel while doing his job and
> bleed to death on the mill floor.
>
> Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is dedicated
> to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.  I can pull some
> stats if anyone is really interested.
>
> Your email pal,
>
> Tom L.
>
> Brad De Long wrote:
>
> > Jim Devine wrote:
> >
> > >Others have replied to Brad on this so I'll try not to repeat their points.
> > >EP Thompson reminds us that the onset of capitalism led to the _rise_ in
> > >hours worked per year.
> >
> > Very true...
> >
> > >
> > >Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
> > >and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
> > >work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.
> > >
> >
> > I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
> > perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
> > Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
> > capitalism are pretty good...
> >
> > Brad DeLong

[PEN-L:6024] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[pamela calla]

At 07:40 27/04/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Thomas Kruse wrote:
>
>> This country has a beautiful future ... but will it survive the present?
>
>This is one of the most beautiful epigrams I have ever seen. I presume
>the original was in Spanish -- and it is short enough so that even my
>high school spanish might encompass it. Could you quote the original.
>
>Carrol
>
>

Este pais tiene un hermoso futuro ... pero, ¿sobrevivirá el presente?

Tom Kruse
Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:6017] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad De Long on working hours

[Tom Lehman]

On the bulletin board over my computer I've got a picture of a bunch of my pals
during the 1986 unpleasantness with USX/US Steel.  The guy in the center of the
picture sitting on the railroad tracks holding the American flag was a good
strong union man and an excellent and experienced craftsman.  He also was an
outstanding participant in our union education and training program.  Last year
around this time he got whacked by a 30 ton bar of steel while doing his job and
bleed to death on the mill floor.

Tomorrow, April 28th is workers memorial day.  Workers Memorial Day is dedicated
to the people who get killed and injured everyday on the job.  I can pull some
stats if anyone is really interested.

Your email pal,

Tom L.

Brad De Long wrote:

> Jim Devine wrote:
>
> >Others have replied to Brad on this so I'll try not to repeat their points.
> >EP Thompson reminds us that the onset of capitalism led to the _rise_ in
> >hours worked per year.
>
> Very true...
>
> >
> >Also, industrial capitalism has led to a qualitative change in the nature
> >and pace of work, often for the worse. In addition to Thompson, see the
> >work of Herbert Gutman. No more drinking on the job, for instance.
> >
>
> I don't know about this. It seems to me that in historical
> perspective--relative, say, to being a field slave at
> Monticello--conditions of work here and now under modern industrial
> capitalism are pretty good...
>
> Brad DeLong

[PEN-L:6013] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Nobel laureates' Kosovopeace initiative!

[Jim Devine]

I wrote: >>(The top Milosevicites would be subjected to war crimes trials,
while the winners (Clinton, Blair) would  not, as usual.) Whatever
Clinton's motives for attacking Serbia, the "peace" they would impose these
days would likely be a neoliberal utopia, turning Serbia into an "emerging
market."<<

Max writes: >Tell me if you think Milo is opposed to this outcome.  If not,
what is the war about?< 

That is the question. What in hell is this war about? As I've said before
(agreeing with Barkley), it's not about the Danube or Balkan mines. As I've
noted many times on this list, I'm no fan of Milosevic; I see him as a
pretty standard despot of the sort that the US usually supports (a sober
Yeltsin?). 

What I think it's about is the arrogance of power. Clinton/Albright/Blair
felt that militarily and economically, US/NATO was "on top of the world,"
with the best damn high-tech weapons in the world. (Gosh, look at those
Patriots knocking down those Scuds! We showed Saddam who was boss! And
killing even more Iraqis is driving the point home! And have you noticed
that, if said fast enough, "Slobodan" sounds like "Saddam"?) Not only that,
but the IMF/World Bank is successfully remaking the world in the US image.
To paraphrase Alexander Haig, "we're in charge here."

They start looking for a purpose for NATO, which is useless except as a way
to sell weapons to the newly admitted Eastern European countries now that
the USSR is gone. They use "human rights" concerns as a way of legitimating
their power (with a very selective interpretation of what human rights are
and who deserves them), and find a bunch of human rights abuses in the
"European back yard" with no major interest group to make sure there's no
intervention. (Turkey, as a member of NATO, can block any kind of
intervention in the name of human rights in its "back yard." France trumped
any intervention in Rwanda. The US prevented any kind of intervention when
it was pushing human rights abuses onto the people of Central America. Etc.) 


They think in terms of moral absolutes -- and they think they've got the
power to do so, unlike us poor schlumps who have to deal with the
complexities of everyday life -- at the same time they seem to have thought
of the Balkans as some sort of chessboard (the way Henry the K, America's
Favorite War-Criminal (TM), does) which they can simply plop down a
cruise-missile Knight and checkmate the King. They don't understand that
strategic bombing of Serbia will raise popular support for Milosevic (as in
the Battle of Britain) and unleash Serbian nationalism. They don't
understand that bomb-lobbing simply makes matters _worse_, including for
the official victims, the ethnic Albanian Kosovars (especially when you
pull out the human rights observers). They don't understand the reason why
terrorism is not only immoral but a bad tactic and a bad strategy.
Eventually, they get into the Vietnam-era crap about "we have to continue
committing this crime because we'll lose credibility." At this point, it
seems that this is the main factor keeping the war going (along with NATO's
current inability to do anything but ratify the status quo).

I wrote: >> I take the reference to Gandhi as a suggestion that I'm a
pacifist. I'm not <<<

Max writes: >Not really.  It goes to the fantastic notion that some kind of
human rights standards could be observed in a region where the ethnic
cleansers have all the guns.<

actually, the KLA had a lot of guns, too. Unless you include _them_ as
being amongst the ethnic cleansers, which you should, what with their goal
of setting up a greater Albania. 

Why don't human rights standards apply to those who send in cruise
missiles? don't bombs kill and maim people? or are Clinton and Blair immune
to accusations of human rights abuse because they use high-tech means?

>War could liberate Kosova from the Serbs, which would be good for Kosovan
workers.  Better to have your own nation than be shot like a dog.<

This of course ignores the fact that the ethnic cleansing of Kosova/o was
unleashed by the strategic bombing you seem to support (along with the
US/NATO-mandated pull-out of observers). 

This talk of "liberating Kosova" is nonsense. The last thing the world
needs is to start questioning all of the national boundaries in order to
protect all of the ethnic minorities. (Have you looked at the map of
India?) That kind of strategy creates all sorts of wars (like the current
one against Serbia). It creates a large bunch of small and weak nations,
either fighting against each other with chauvinistic slogans or competing
with each other to offer the lowest possible wages and the largest
investment subsidies to attract foreign investment, abasing themselves to
the transnational corporations. In the Balkans, it will likely create a
US/NATO protectorate which will provide more cheap labor to encourage
downward harmonization (and a great place to dump toxic wastes).

It was the Germans', the Pope's, the US's ques

[PEN-L:6011] Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Wojtek Sokolowski]

At 08:08 PM 4/26/99 -0700, Jim Devive wrote:
>I don't think so. Grafitti is ugly, especially in a nice neighborhood of
>residential apartments; in LA it's associated with gangs, who almost noone
>likes.  There must be better tactics, especially since graffitti encourages
> the use of simplistic slogans such as "NATO swastika". 


Well, my son was active on the grafitti scene here in Baltimore and he says
that the alleged "gang connection" is a lame excuse cops use to crack on
the grafitti artists.  Most of the grafitti art is not done by "gangs" but
by "crews" - that is, groups of young people who do mainly grafitti (as
opposed to other "gang business").

Grafitti is a form of public art, and is actually very popular in Europe;
see for example:

http://www.graffiti.org/

which contains links to various grafitti sites across the world.

I think the opposition to grafitti in the US comes mainly from two sources:

- grafitti involves an act of 'reclaiming" of a 'private' space for the
display of public art; and since the USers tend to be fearful of anything
public (where they cound encounter people different than themselves) they
distrust an art form that is anti-thetical to the idea of 'private.'


- the adult USers tend to be violently anti-youth, they are afraid of the
young people, hate their culture, and are very passionate about
disciplining the them (cf. the nauseating exuberance that caning of an US
teenagager in Singapore provoked in this country) - so they naturally
despise grafitti as an expression of the youth culture.

Wojtek

[PEN-L:6009] Life achievements

[Wojtek Sokolowski]

>
> 
>The American investment banker was at the pier of a small
>coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one
>fisherman docked.  Inside the small boat were several large
>yellow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on
>the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch
>them.
>
>The Mexican replied, "Only a little while."
>
>The American then asked why he didn't stay out longer and
>catch more fish.
>
>The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's
>immediate needs.
>
>The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest
>of your time?"
>
>The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little,
>play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria,
>stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and
>play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life."
>
>The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help
>you.  You should spend more time fishing and with the
>proceeds, buy a bigger boat with the proceeds from the
>bigger boat you could buy several boats, eventually you
>would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your
>catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the
>processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would
>control the product, processing and distribution. You would
>need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to
>Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run
>your expanding enterprise."
>
>The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all
>take?"
>
>To which the American replied, "15-20 years."
>
>"But what then?"
>
>The American laughed and said that's the best part.  "When
>the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your
>company stock to the public and become very rich, you would
>make millions."
>
>"Millions..  Then what?"
>
>The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small
>coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a
>little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife,
>stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip
>wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
>
>
>--
>

[PEN-L:6008] RE: Re: RE: (Fwd) NATO STARTED BOMBING TO HELP MILOSEVIC

[Max Sawicky]

>
> Firstly, most of us opposed the bombing because it could not,
in itself,
possibly realise the professed ends in whose name it was
conducted.  People
were gonna get killed, maimed, dispossessed and dislocated for no
reason
that had anything to do with NATO's crocodile tears and apple pie
bleatings.>

Sure you did, but the practical effect of a bombing halt is to
hand the entire country to Milo, complete with a death warrant
for Kosova.

> Secondly, whatever solutions (and not all of us professed a
clue as to what might have solved the problems as at 22 March)
were available at the outset, are now mostly beyond reach (eg.
Serbian anti-Milosovic dynamics, the Serbian parliamentary
compromise of 23 April, Rugova's gradualist strategy etc), and
the scope of possible positive changes has been severely limited
by NATO's vicious nonsense. >

Right.  But some people are prone to revisiting what should have
been done three weeks ago, instead of the choices in view right
now.

> Thirdly, bombing and impoverishing people is a great way to
exacerbate
identities like those of the bloody nationalists.  No-one's
bombing and
impoverishing Murdoch, and he hasn't a nationalist bone in his
body, whereas
a lot of people living around his farm here in southern NSW have
long been
doing it very tough and have just voted a self-identified
'national-socialist' Hansonite into the state upper house.  A sad
trend in the west these days is that as capital gets more
internationalist, the proletariat and petit-bourgeoisie are
becoming defensively and belligerently nationalist.  You gotta
multiply that by some significant factor to allow
for the life experience of a Serb or an Albanian.  Both are
likely to come
out of this with shining eyes to match their emaciated features.
>

All the more reason for the independence of Kosova from Serbia.

> Lastly, to come up with a 'solution' now is to respond to a
whole new
priority - that of stopping the slaughter and destruction wrought
by NATO
bombs, Serb responses, and those of the almost wholly newly
constituted KLA.
 Serbs and Albanaian Kosovars alike are gonna be paying a big
price for it,
but not to pay that price is now to pay an altogether bigger one.
>

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

> In short, very few of us opposed the principle of Kosovar
'autonomy'/'independence' (although I, for one - & mebbe Rugova
for two - >

That is not obvious to me.  I recall very little expressed
support for Kosova from those opposed to Nato.  There has been
more about Nato's nefarious plans to stoke nationalism and
splinter the Balkans, as if the region wasn't a patchwork
already.

> didn't have a clue how it might come about in any meaningful
way - in the
short term at least).  We merely opposed - and still oppose -
'strategic
bombing.  Because it kills and impoverishes the innocent and
PRECISELY
BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HELP, IN ANY WAY, ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF ANY
OF
YUGOSLAVIA'S PEOPLES. >

A difference that crops up here is your equation or parity
between the 'cause' of Serbians and Kosovans.  They are not
equivalent.  The Serbian regime is the aggressor and oppressor.
Serbian independence is not in question.  Kosova is the aggrieved
party.  A bombing halt to me signals a halt to any commitment to
put pressure on Milo, though the bombing itself has not been
successful in this regard thus far.  Thus the real significance
of simple anti-bombing politics is anti-Kosovan.

> As an afterthought, would it be a bit paranoid of me to inquire
into the
timing of the NATO strike?  I mean, if Serbia's parliament did do
something
very like what Serbia did in 1914 (ie accept pretty well
everything the
imposed Rambo-eh document demanded with only the proviso that the
occupying
troops not be under NATO control) on the 23rd of March, might we
discern in
NATO's immediate resort to bombing (the following morning)
evidence that
what was sought was a pretext and not the sudden appearance of
waht might
have been a solution? >

The fact that the event could have been a pretext does not mean
an amended Rambouillet agreement would have been a solution
(except to the SErbs' current travails).

> The conditions under which this integration must now take place
(esp. the
position from which Yugoslavia would be dealing) have been much
altered by
the bombing - because the bombing has destroyed so much of
Yugoslavia's
productive capacity - the WB/IMF can now have their wicked way
with a
desperate pile of ashes and skinny people (who are even now
becoming
refugees themselves - again withouit a skerrick of western
sympathy and
aid). >

I don't see any economic logic for the IMF in having the
industrial capacity of Yugoslavia destroyed.  The Yugo working
class is more productive with capital, not without it.  Profits
and income to rentiers are more likely with capital.  Destroying
it makes no sense from an economic standpoint.  The notion that
this act solves any worldwide problem of excess capacity (too
many Yugo's?) is ludicrous.

[PEN-L:6001] Re: Re: Re: graffitti

[Thomas Kruse]

Graffitti here is pretty amazing, ranging from highly political, to
personal and poetic.  There is little tagging.  Many people find the walls
the place to write verse; some if it is relly pretty good.

A student om mine did a research project on it and found that the artists
were not just young students, but also a frustrated lawyer, a young priest,
etc.  One anarchist feminist group is particularly good -- the Mujeres
Creando (Women Creating).  Many people (me too) activly look for there
stuff, in reaction to events.

A couple of my favorites from Cochabamba walls:

I have a poster of all of you on my wall.
   ---[signed] Che

This country has a beautiful future ... but will it survive the present?

Tom

Tom Kruse
Casilla 5812 / Cochabamba, Bolivia
Tel/Fax: (591-4) 248242, 500849
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[PEN-L:5997] RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Nobel laureates' Kosovo peace initiative!

[Max Sawicky]

> That's funny, but you should remember the key official premise of this war
> you're supporting, i.e. that Milosevic is the moral equivalent of
> Hitler. I

The official premise is not mine.  If you call refusing to denounce the
bombing, and advocating a Nato rescue of Kosovo via ground troops
"supporting this war," fine.

> can't guess how old you are (not being good at such things), but a lot of

I'm 35.  My mother gave birth to me while attending the March on Washington.

I could speculate about what I might do if I was 22 and without family
commitments, but it wouldn't mean anything.

> As a peace-keeper, I would simply be part of the US/NATO military machine
> imposing its version of peace (assuming that it wins, now that it has your
> support). No thanks! Based on what happened after WW2, they'd bring in all
> but the top Milosevicites to administer occupied Serbia, as long as the
> administration favored US/NATO goals. (The top Milosevicites would be

This is what's going to happen in any case, though Milo will probably be
along for the ride.  This is the plan, win or lose.  Some of those
characters like 'Arkan' might be tried.

> subjected to war crimes trials, while the winners (Clinton, Blair) would
> not, as usual.) Whatever Clinton's motives for attacking Serbia, the
> "peace" they would impose these days would likely be a neoliberal utopia,
> turning Serbia into an "emerging market."

Tell me if you think Milo is opposed to this outcome.  If not, what is the
war about?

> But I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, to work to end this
> crazy and criminal war you support. What are you willing to do to support
> the war? buy war bonds?

Watch this space.

> I take the reference to Gandhi as a suggestion that I'm a
> pacifist. I'm not

Not really.  It goes to the fantastic notion that some kind of human rights
standards could be observed in a region where the ethnic cleansers have all
the guns.

> and it's amazing how often I've been accused of such lately, as
> if the only
> moral stance possible against US/NATO's war is pacifism. I happen to think
> that war should be avoided as much as possible, but may be necessary in
> some circumstances (as against the real Hitler). But war as a tactic or as
> a strategy doesn't make sense. I ask: how does war strengthen the working
> class and other oppressed groups? It doesn't except that sometimes tight

War could liberate Kosova from the Serbs, which would be good for Kosovan
workers.  Better to have your own nation than be shot like a dog.

> All I can say is that you don't seem to have studied military foreign
> policy issues much. I can't think of any other reason why anyone would
> think that strategic bombing -- with its inevitable "collateral damage"
> (railroad trains, refugee convoys -- would solve anything any

Never said it would.  If you are going to say I'm uninformed, at least find
something I said that bears it out.  It shouldn't be too hard.

mbs

[PEN-L:5995] RE: Re: RE: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

[Max Sawicky]

> Wasn't Laura Tyson's dissertation on Yugo?

I don't know about her dissertation, but one of her fields was comparative
systems, and she published on Yugoslavia.

>
> Max Sawicky wrote:

No I didn't.

> > > We are interested in putting together a press release of
> sources on the
> > > role of the IMF in contributing to the break-up of Yugoslavia and the
> > > exacerbation of ethnic tensions there. (and perhaps also this
> pattern for
> > > the IMF more generally, e.g. Rwanda.) Who would you suggest for
> > > this topic? . . .
> >

This is what I wrote:

> > There's a Brookings study on the IMF screwing up the Yugo
> economy, leading
> > to the beginning of dissolution of the federation.  by a woman, don't
> > remember her name.
> >
> > mbs

mbs

[PEN-L:5977] Re: IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda

[Bill Rosenberg]

I presume you are aware of Michel Chossudovsky's various articles
on these subjects, and his book, "The Globalisation of Poverty, 
Impacts of IMF and World Bank Reforms", Third World Network, Penang 
and Zed Books, London, 1997. The book has chapters on IMF/World 
Bank impacts on Rwanda and Yugoslavia amongst other countries, 
including Somalia. He is Professor of Economics at the University of 
Ottawa, and is worth contacting for further information, particularly 
on Rwanda.

Bill Rosenberg

> Date:  Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:20:39 -0400
> From:  Robert Naiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:   [PEN-L:5973] IMF and Yugoslavia, Rwanda
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> We are interested in putting together a press release of sources on
> the role of the IMF in contributing to the break-up of Yugoslavia
> and the exacerbation of ethnic tensions there. (and perhaps also
> this pattern for the IMF more generally, e.g. Rwanda.) Who would you
> suggest for this topic? (It's a plus if they are economists or have
> published on this topic or have some other credential we can push.)
> 
> Here's what I have on Rwanda
> 
> (from Public Citizen, "Survey of IMF impacts on Africa")
> 
> A study led by the Danish government(13), identified IMF-World Bank
> programs as a key factor of "decisive importance" contributing to
> the deterioration in ethnic relations which preceded the genocide of
> more than half a million people starting in April 1994, and faulted
> the IMF for "overlook[ing] these potentially explosive political
> consequences when designing and imposing their economic conditions."
> 
> 13. Steering Committee of the Joint Evaluation of Emergency
> Assistance to Rwanda, The International Response to Conflict and
> Genocide: Lessons from the Rwanda Experience, March 1996.
> [http://www.ing.dk/danida/rwanda.html]
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Preamble Center 
> ---
> Robert Naiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Preamble Center
> 1737 21st NW
> Washington, DC 20009
> phone: 202-265-3263
> fax:   202-265-3647
> http://www.preamble.org/
> ---
>