Re: Economics and law/bureaucratic order made real
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why does the Japanese produce better vehicles and the old Soviet vehicles ... as massed produced . . . not specialized .. . were of an inferior quality? One thread of thought says the Soviet system was inferior to the American system and the Soviet workers were lazy, stupid, culturally backwards and lacked freedom of _expression due to their bureaucracy. This is the exact argument advanced by a section of the intellectual stratum of Japan against their American counterparts. --- It's not because they were lazy or stupid, it's because they couldn't be fired for doing a bad job. Or most anything else -- many workplaces had one or two incorrigible alcoholics who would come in to work and be told to sleep it off in the back room. (They were given the worst jobs though.) All Soviet goods were sold with the date of manufacture, and the purchaser invariable made sure not to buy something made after a holiday or on a Monday (to avoid hangover-related shoddiness) or at teh end of the month (which meant everybody was working ful speed to fulfill the plan). Note that in areas where the Soviets _did_ discipline labor -- the military and aeronautics, for instance -- their goods were surburb. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law/bureaucratic order made real
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why does the Japanese produce better vehicles and the old Soviet vehicles ... as massed produced . . . not specialized .. . were of an inferior quality? One thread of thought says the Soviet system was inferior to the American system and the Soviet workers were lazy, stupid, culturally backwards and lacked freedom of _expression due to their bureaucracy. This is the exact argument advanced by a section of the intellectual stratum of Japan against their American counterparts. --- It's not because they were lazy or stupid, it's because they couldn't be fired for doing a bad job. Or most anything else -- many workplaces had one or two incorrigible alcoholics who would come in to work and be told to sleep it off in the back room. (They were given the worst jobs though.) All Soviet goods were sold with the date of manufacture, and the purchaser invariable made sure not to buy something made after a holiday or on a Monday (to avoid hangover-related shoddiness) or at teh end of the month (which meant everybody was working ful speed to fulfill the plan). Note that in areas where the Soviets _did_ discipline labor -- the military and aeronautics, for instance -- their goods were surberb. ___ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: Economics and law
Agreed. That's playing with fire. --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would not like to see an extended Stalin debate. > -- > Michael Perelman > Economics Department > California State University > Chico, CA 95929 > > Tel. 530-898-5321 > E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- andie nachgeborenen: I agree with about the good Czar with under Stalinism, but that is not an example of socialist democracy -- I don't think you think it is either. --- Certainly not. __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Re: Economics and law
--- andie nachgeborenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree with your reservations about the term > Stalinism, I just don't have a better one. > > I agree with about the good Czar with under > Stalinism, but that is not an example of socialist > democracy -- I don't think you think it is either. > > jks Incidentally, in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq with all its "Saddam is a brutal, hated dictator, so of course nobodt likes him and we will be greeted as liberators" rhetoric, I kept thinking of Stalin. Stalin was not hated (by most people). He was worshipped (by most people). Being a brutal dictator does not necessarily mean that you are hated or seen as illegitimate by the people over whom you are dictating, especially if their historical experience tells them that power is absolute and arbitrary. For all I know, Saddam's ruthlessness may have bought him street cred as a tough guy you don't mess with. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: electricity/water comparisons
Thanks Patrick! That was very informative. As you may know, we have a similar problem here -- not with water, but with electricity and heating -- but for different reasons. The Far East and Siberia are plagued with shutoffs of electricity (in Siberia, in winter). This is because, in Russia, the city or regional governments, not the consumers, pay the bills (though the government is trying to get around it by increasing payments made by consumers, which are far under market rates). However, in large regions, teh authorities are chronically short of cash, for three reasons: 1. The generally grim economic situation in those areas. 2. The middle class, which is where most of the money is, often works off the books, so little tax money is derived from them. 3. Corruption in the bureaucracy skims off additionsl layers of money. Accordingly, when the energy-grid monopoly UES doesn't get its payment, it shuts down supplies. This has even happened to military facilities while engaging in exercises! This is why its head, Chubais, is often referred to by (KPRF head) Zyuganov in typical demagogic fashion as the "energy gangster." __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Shleifer update
Anders Aslund says the same thing. He's the David Irving of post-Soviet studies. --- Daniel Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > shit, if that's the dude's defence he'll be lucky if > he doesn't get the > chair! > > dd > > -Original Message- > From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Perelman, > Michael > Sent: 15 August 2004 05:10 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Shleifer update > > > Harvard and Shleifer say that the reforms they > suggested > worked well. > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- andie nachgeborenen http://www.google.ru/search?q=cache:jGjH1YybTMcJ:www.jacobite.org.uk/ellis/religion.pdf+%22Peter+the+Great%22+Lomonosov+praise+swedes&hl=ru), including the author's comments: My address to you, our now peaceful neighbours [i.e. the Swedes, defeated by Petersforces in the Great Northern War] is intended such that when you hear this praise ofthe martial exploits of our Hero [Peter] and my celebration of the victory of Russian forces over you, you do not take it as an insult, but rather as an honour to you, for tohave stood for so long a time against the mighty Russian nation, to have stood againstPeter the Great, against the Man, sent from God to the wonder of the universe, and inthe end to have been defeated by Him, is still more glorious than to have defeated weakforces under poor leadership.47 Lomonosov can be yet more explicit than that in his identification of Peter with Christlike attributes. In his Ode on the 1752 anniversary of Elizabeth Petrovnas coronation, he says this about Peters mother Natalia Naryshkina: And thou, blessed among women, By whom bold Alexis Gave to us the unsurpassable Monarch Who opened up the light to the whole of Russia. The correspondence here with the following well-known words from the Gospel According to St. Luke is palpable: And the angel came in unto her and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. (Luke 1, xxviii) Granted, he has not gone so far as to claim for Peters mother an Immaculate Conception, orfor Peter a physical Resurrection, and it would be more than far-fetched to suppose that thisis simply a question of his not wanting to compromise the continuity of the Romanov dynasty by denying Tsar Alexis any part in Peters conception; but his use of such recognisably New Testament language would be hard to explain away as coincidental and his identification of Peter with Christlike or, perhaps better, messianic, qualities is still evident. -- Me again: In fact, there is a Cult of Putin today, which has not been fostered by the Kremlin but is rather a source of embarrassment to it it -- e.g. people have named bars and even a tomato after Putin, to the Kremlin's intense displeasure. The Kremlin has a special office devoted to correspondence directed to Putin from the people -- hundreds of thousands of letters every year -- many of which take the form of asking Putin to intercede in people's personal problems. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Secondly, the primary Marxist point about capitalism was that, destructive of human life as capitalism had been from its very beginning (the advances for the few from the beginning disguising the greater horror for the many), it _had_ opened up the possibility of _real_ improvement of human life, a possibility that did not exist within agrarian society (as superior as such societies had been for the the vast majority in comparison with capitalism). Carrol --- Didn't the Bolsheviks at one point deliberately try to immitate aspects of American big capital? (I'm reviewing Yale Rochmond's Cultural Exchange and the Cold War, and he asserts this.) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy/the big quote
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What made Soviet socialism . . . real existing socialism was the legal system and ownership rights - property rights, that prevented anything other than means of consumption passing into the hands of individuals. That is to say . . . means of production could not pass into the hands of individuals. -- Hi Melvin, This isn't totally true. The USSR did allow small-scale private farming and very small-scale private enterprise, e.g. sewing and repairing clothes for money. Half of Soviet agriculture in the Brezhnev era was produced ny collective farm workers who, after doing their work at the kolkhoz, could grow produce on their private land plots, which they would take to the cities and sell. If anybody is interested in a vivid description of daily life in the Khrushchev era, I recommend Russian writer (and political agitator) Eduard Limonov's wonderful little book about his life as a young man in Kharkov in the 1950s turning from petty crime to literature, Dairy of a Scoundrel. It's available on the Web in English, translated by the eXile's John Dolan, if anyone is interested. (It's not one of the shock books Limonov is famous for, just a simple retelling of his youth. I recommend it wholeheartedly. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- andie nachgeborenen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where did you get it? It's not like there is a Lada > dealership on every corner . . . jks > There is here. :) __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
The distinction between Stalinist societies that appropriated the name "socialist" and those based upon real democratic input is absolutely spot-on. Bill -- What would you call the USSR when it had free elections in 1990? __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: CB: It is not quite clear that because there was a Gulag, show trials of Party members and other acts of state repression on specific occasions, that there was no or little democratic process in decisions on other matters in Soviet society during Stalin's rule or "Stalinism" ( other matters such as decisions on transportation safety) --- Me : In the Brezhnev era, the primary domestic purpose of KGB informers was to gauge public opinion with respect to this or that government policy. I personally hate the word "Stalinism." It's not even a Russian word (it is now, but it was imported). What exactly does it mean? And why the obsession with one man? __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: CB: If they hadn't been doing something that was building socialism some kind of threat to capitalism , they wouldn't have been in such imminent danger of being "defeated again". The reason imperialism was especially focussed on invading and conquering the SU is that they were building socialism, however flawed. --- Also just because it was a rival center of power. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: CB: Are you saying that the Soviet people knew they were really just trying to catch up with the West again ,and just used the Communist terminology to cover it up or that they didn't realize what they were really, "pragmatically" doing ( simply trying to catch up with the West) ? Basically the best argument against what you are saying is what the Soviet people said. --- Oh, I think it was both. You had some people who believed the ideology and tried to implement it, some people who believed the ideology but tried to implement something else and lied to themselves about, and other people who just cynically used the ideology. I think I have a good description of the USSR: socialism with tsarist characteristics. Or tsarism with socialist characteristics. :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
The majority of cars sold in Russia are Russian-made, or imports of used cars from the West. Not many people are going to be able to afford a brand-new Volvo. --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Obviously, someone who is very poor & needs > transportation will be unlikely to > purchase a Volvo & would be more likely to settle > for a Yugo. > > > -- > Michael Perelman > Economics Department > California State University > Chico, CA 95929 > > Tel. 530-898-5321 > E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy
Oh, I think a lot of Soviet policy was simply a utilitarian, "how do we build up the country as quickly as possible to overtake our enemoies?" thing. Russia engages in these grandiose "catching up with the West" adventures every couple of centuries or so. It has succeeded twice, under Peter the Great and Joseph the Steel, two historical figures I think have a lot in common, except that the Stalin had tanks instead of musketry. There's no way he could beat Peter's Drunken Synods, though. :) -- > > I'm without notes but roughly, as comrade Stalin > correctly stated in 1931, > we have 10 years in which to catch up or we will be > defeated again.In > support of Chris' point, I don't recall this > statement as having anything > to do with building socialism as such. > michael > Michael A. Lebowitz > Professor Emeritus > Economics Department > Simon Fraser University > Burnaby, B.C., Canada V5A 1S6 > > Currently based in Venezuela. Can be reached at > Residencias Anauco Suites > Departamento 601 > Parque Central, Zona Postal 1010, Oficina 1 > Caracas, Venezuela > (58-212) 573-4111 > fax: (58-212) 573-7724 > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > CB: Why was there a need to develop the agrarian > country ? People had been > surviving in agrarian societies for millenia. > Fend off the West? Russia's been doing this since Peter the Great. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: electricity/water comparisons
Hi Patrick. --- Patrick Bond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In SA, they've finally stopped the practice of shutting off whole sections of (black) townships when a large proportion of residents don't pay bills, but they still do for apartment houses. And that's in a country with a centre-left regime and a constitutional right to water. Last year, 1.3 million people were disconnected from water because of non-payment, even the state's chief water bureaucrat recently admitted. --- Wow. A water Chubais. If they did that in Russia, they would have mass opposition rallies. The very idea of paying bills is a novelty here. What are water costs like in South Africa? Water is free here (two things Russia is not short off -- ater and land). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ^^ CB: Are you saying the Soviet people did not think their policy was about socialism or that they didn't know what they were really doing ? --- Mainly that was me writing off the cuff while trying to meet a deadline and working through a hangover. It wiould be better to say something like "the shape of Soviet society was determined first and foremost by the need to develop an agrarian country. It succeeded. The rest of teh stuff is fluff." __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: electricity/water comparisons
Hi Patrick. --- Patrick Bond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In SA, they've finally stopped the practice of shutting off whole sections of (black) townships when a large proportion of residents don't pay bills, but they still do for apartment houses. And that's in a country with a centre-left regime and a constitutional right to water. Last year, 1.3 million people were disconnected from water because of non-payment, even the state's chief water bureaucrat recently admitted. --- Wow. A water Chubais. If they did that in Russia, they would have mass opposition rallies. The very idea of paying bills is a novelty here. What are water costs like in South Africa? Water is free here (two things Russia is not short off -- water and land). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Economics and law
--- Kenneth Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just this eve, I was spending some time talking about history with a friend. She brought out a book with a variety of graphs. The most salient one, in this regard (thread), was the shift of population from "agricultural workers" to "industrial workers." The graph only measure 100 years, starting from 1860. The curves that the UK and US generated with meagre slopes in that time frame. Those units had made that "relocation" much earlier. Japan's curve started around the 1880s. The USSR was around 1930. (There were others, like Turkey, with similar steep relocation curves.) I mentioned to her, in talking about that, that the one thing that I found the most knee-jerk and unreflective about the right is that they make unsophisticated comparisons, usually assuming from some mythical "ground zero" that the US and Russia started on a level playing field and only socialism crippled Russia. Ken. --- Yeah. Look at communal apartments, which were always adduced in anti-Soviet propaganda as evidence of the evils of the latter system. In fact, communal apartments were a response to massive and rapid urbanization. People have to live somewhere. When England industrialized, what happened to the people who flooded into the cities -- they lived in workhouses? Anyway I think both sides of this debate are missing the point of the Soviet experience (limiting the discussion to the USSR). Soviet Union policy was really not about "socialism." The Soviet Union was about modernizing an agrarian country in lickety-split time. It succeeded. ___ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: Economics and law
David: >Cop out. In my experience, there was one example of a >socialist inspired car in the capitalist market: the Yugo. >Case closed. --- This is totally untrue. The USSR exported automobiles to Latin America and elsewhere. Russia and Belarus export tractors to Australia to this day, where Ladas, I am told, have a cult following. Those vehicles break down a lot, but then again they are easy to repair. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: JEP & Schleiffer
BTW this is the Russian newspaper Izvestia commenting on Schleiffer's fall from grace. Izvestia August 10, 2004 HARVARD PROFESSOR'S SPOUSE LINED HER POCKETS IN PRIVATIZATION An update on the scandal around the so called Harvard Project. Author: Konstantin Getmansky [from WPS Monitoring Agency, www.wps.ru/e_index.html] HARVARD PROJECT, A PROGRAM GENEROUSLY FINANCED BY THE US ADMINISTRATION, WAS SUPPOSED TO HELP RUSSIA MAKE A TRANSITION TO FREE MARKET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 1990'S. IN FACT, AMERICAN CONSULTANTS ANDREI SCHLEIFER AND JONATHAN HAY USED INSIDER INFORMATION ON PRIVATIZATION OF MAJOR RUSSIAN ENTERPRISES FOR PERSONAL ENRICHMENT Harvard Project, a program generously financed by the US Administration, was supposed to help Russia make a transition to free market in the middle of the 1990's. In fact, American consultants Andrei Schleifer and Jonathan Hay used insider information on privatization of major Russian enterprises for personal enrichment. Their wives participated. Nancy Zimmerman recompensed the US Administration for the damage estimated by attorneys at $1.5 million last Thursday. Zimmerman decided to pay up to avoid criminal charges. It happened a month after the verdict of the federal court of Massachusetts that convicted her husband, Harvard Professor of Economics Schleifer, for machinations and falsification of his reports on his activities in the capacity of adviser to the government of Russia. Schleifer spent between 1994 and 1997 in Moscow, involved with the already non-existent Harvard Institute of International Development within the framework of the American program of assistance to Russia in transition to free market economy. Along with everything else, Schleifer was a consultant of the Federal Commission for Securities that received hefty grants from the United States then for establishment of the securities markets in Russia. The first accusations concerning integrity of the professor and his wife appeared right upon his return to the United States in 1997. The prosecutor's office initiated criminal proceedings and an investigation only in 2000. When it was over, it filed lawsuit against Schleifer and Zimmerman demanding recompense to the US Administration for its losses. Investigation is convinced that Schleifer with the help from his wife used his position for personal enrichment. Using the insider information he was privy to, he and his wife established several dummy corporations through which they bought shares in Russian enterprises slated for privatization. The accord between the US Administration and Harvard expressly banned this. Aware of that and using their personal capitals, Schleifer and Zimmerman bought $464,000 worth of shares in Russian oil companies. Schleifer also used his relatives' fortunes to buy into Gazprom. "This is blatant neglect of all norms of ethics," said Sarah Bloom, Massachusetts Assistant DA. "Two experts hired to promote observance of the law, integrity and openness of market in Russia taught the Russians something altogether different." On June 28, the federal court of Massachusetts convicted Schleifer. Judge Douglas Woodlock did not set the sum Schleifer and Jonathan Hay (his colleague and former head of the Harvard Institute of International Development) are supposed to return to the US Administration. DA office insists on $102 million. The final verdict will be passed on September 13. As for Zimmerman, the court did not even begin. Last Thursday, he returned to the state $1.5 million worth of damage as estimated by the prosecution. "Zimmerman is one of the owners of Farallon Fixed Income Associates," said Samantha Martin of the Massachusetts DA office. "We believe that FFIA used the resources, personnel, and influence of the Harvard Project in Russia for its own investments in the Russian economy. Between December 1995 and June 1997, FFIA made use of all these resources and insider information on the activities of New World Capital. The company bought and sold shares in Russian companies using the arrangement that permitted it not to pay taxes to the Russian budget." "This solution of the problem shows that the United States will always be after whoever uses government programs for his or her own benefit," said Massachusetts DA Michael Sullivan. "We will not permit the use of taxpayers' money for personal enrichment." Translated by A. Ignatkin --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did he get fired? Just from the development > institute? > -- > Michael Perelman > Economics Department > California State University > Chico, CA 95929 > > Tel. 530-898-5321 > E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: back to PPP comparisons\Chris' question
Thanks for the input! See below. > > State supplied utility benefits such as electricity > are in Russia's > national accounts in Ruble terms, so yes they are > included in these > comparisons. Even with the recent price hikes, my monthly electricity bill in Moscow (pretty large Stalin-era apartment, with two big rooms, kitchen, bathroom, water closet) is a whopping $8. Domestic consumers also get gas and oil at far below market rates (you probably already know this). BTW even if an apartment dweller simply refuses to pay the bill, there is no effective way to disconnect him or her, since Soviet apartment blocks are constructed in such a way that you either shut power off to the whole block or not at all. Ditto for water. Such deadbeats were frequent subjects of mockery in Soviet comedies. > > Self-grown food is normally not in *conventional* > national accounts - one > example of why people get perplexed when they see > very low GNP p/c figures > that don't match up to their intuitive feel for > living standards. That's a very good point. I remember how stunned I was at how much richer Moscow was than I has expected, going by official figures (unaware that up to half of the economy does not exist on the books). (The home-grown food issue, BTW, also points to what a wild exaggeration Gaidar's warning of impending famine was in 1991. It is impossible to starve in Russia. I know people who got through the dark days of the early 90s by gathering mushrooms in the forest. Russia is mostly wilderness. Hunting is as much a way of life in Siberia, as, say tax evasion in Moscow. :) ) Moreover, Russia still has a strange, quasi-Soviet economy that is to some extent nonmonetarized. E.g. the factory where someone works might pay him or her practically nothing, but it provides daycare for your kids, gives you meals, free bus passes etc. etc. etc. (This is why people where able to survive during the days of year-long wage delays -- they didn't live off their wages. Their wages were supplemental.) > > Existing apartments are assets so they are not, per > se, in Russia's Ruble > national accounts. Incidentally the high apartment ownership rate and the way it was acquired (privatization of the apartment you happened to live in in 1991) has interesting sociological effects. For instance, Russia does not have ghettoes organized around ethnic or income (or for that matter sexual) lines. You can have a middle-class family and an impoverished beggar living next to one another (the exception is the rich). The concept of a slum is completely alien (I recollect an Indian acquaintance trying to get the idea across to a Russian coworker to no avail -- "you mean like a Khrushchev building?" "You don't understand, you've never seen a slum."). For the same reason Russian cities are not divided into low- and high-crime areas -- there is a low level of danger everywhere, but nowhere that is completely secure and nowhere that it is suicide to go into. There's also the everpresent alcoholic who seems to live in every apartment block, who would be on the streets in the United States but still has his apartment to stagger home to in Russia (everything in the apartment, however, has probably been pawned to buy booze). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: back to PPP comparisons
As a general question, do these income comparisons somehow factor in nonmonetary "income," state-supplied benefits or similar perks? E.g., in the country in which my butt is parked, monetary incomes are generally relatively low, but most families own their own apartments and grow their own food in part, plus electricity and utilities are dirt cheap, even giving the recent price increase. Thanks. --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Sometimes my response has to be much delayed, > sorry. I will also try to > reply to others.] > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Looming natural gas shortages
Electricity is generated by coal, nuclear power, hydropower or natural gas. Natural gas currently powers about 20 percent of the United States' electricity plants, but that rate is sharply rising because low cost has made gas the fuel of choice. In 2003, more than 300 new gas-fired power stations were built, and 90 percent of new electricity plants are powered by gas. --- Where's the gas come from? Domestic? Imported? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Kremlin tightens its control over Russias economy
Financial Times (UK) August 5, 2004 Kremlin tightens its control over Russias economy By CAROLA HOYOS and ARKADY OSTROVSKY On July 22, the day that Yukos, the oil company, warned of its imminent bankruptcy and its main production subsidiary was seized by bailiffs, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, held a meeting with James Mulva, the chief executive of ConocoPhillips, and Vagit Alekperov, the Soviet-era oil boss who now heads Lukoil, Russia's flagship oil company. The president had some good news for Mr Mulva: the government had just signed a decree to sell its 7.6 per cent stake in Lukoil - a private company which represents the Russian state in major international ventures - and signalled that ConocoPhillips was welcome to bid for it. Mr Putin added that he would like to see a more active relationship between Russian and US companies in the energy sector. Investors and traders were confused: should they sell Russian energy stocks because the country's largest oil company was being made bankrupt in violation of shareholders' rights, or should they buy assets because foreign companies were moving in? Of all Russian companies, Yukos has been the most active in seeking foreign investors, while Lukoil has remained cautious about foreign equity partners. But with its seemingly contradictory actions, the government was, in fact, sending a clear message: we rule. Having gained almost total political power in the country, Mr Putin and his entourage are proceeding to take control over what Lenin called the commanding heights of the economy. This does not mean that Russia is about to start nationalising private business and property or that foreign investment will dry up. It does, however, mean that the Kremlin will decide who can and who cannot invest in Russia. It will increase the state's control over strategic parts of the economy at the expense of the oligarchs who accumulated their wealth through privatisations in the 1990s. Although Yukos was on Wednesday given more breathing space by the justice ministry, which allowed it to pay salaries and to continue operating, there is little doubt that the balance of power is shifting towards more state-oriented companies such as Lukoil. [] Alexander Radygin, an economist at the Institute for the Economy in Transition, --argued in a recent paper that, over the past four years of Mr Putin's presidency, Russia has been moving towards state capitalism where power belongs to the bureaucracy rather than to private business. The dominant trends of the past few years have been the growing expansion of property interests of the Russian state, an attempt to establish control over capital flows in the Russian economy and a desire to make business dependent on state institutions - despite decisions about deregulation, administrative reform and privatisation plans, Mr Radygin says. This trend is most visible in the oil and gas industry, which accounts for almost 20 per cent of gross domestic product, according to the World Bank. While the state, and people who identify themselves with it, are also strengthening their positions in banking, telecommunications and media, the attack on Yukos is crucial to both domestic and foreign investors because it shows the limitations of the market economy in Russia. Al Breach, chief economist at Brunswick UBS, the Russian arm of the the Swiss bank UBS, says: The Yukos affair demonstrates that property rights mean very little in Russia compared to politics. The ownership of assets is contingent on a political regime. If the regime changes so does the property structure. The investigation of Yukos's taxes was initially interpreted by investors as a by-product of a political brawl between Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Yukos's key shareholder and former chief executive, and the Kremlin. Following Mr Khodorkovsky's arrest, they continued to buy Yukos shares believing the company's integrity was not in doubt. Even when Yukos was presented with a back-tax claim of $3.4bn it was seen as an attempt to rid Mr Khodorkovsky of his wealth. Investors were reassured by Mr Putin's promise that his government would do all it could to avoid the company going bankrupt. But the justice ministry's actions over the past few weeks indicate that the campaign was not aimed at merely curbing Mr Khodorkovsky's political ambitions or ridding him of his wealth. Taking financial control of Yukos, one of Russia's most dynamic oil companies, was at least as powerful a goal. Mr Khodorkovsky, who is standing trial for fraud and tax evasion, has volunteered to give up his shares in Yukos to settle the tax debt. The company has offered the government its stake in Sibneft an oil company, which would have paid for most of the tax arrears. Both offers were ignored. Instead, bailiffs, who are part of the justice ministry seized Yuganskneftegas, Yukos's largest production subsidiary, valued at $30bn, and are preparing it for sale to settle the tax bill. Yevgeny Yasi
Russia Will Train Iraqi Oil Workers With Eye on Future Deals
Two stories, one from CNSNews, onr from the Russian press. Russia Will Train Iraqi Oil Workers With Eye on Future Deals By Sergei Blagov CNSNews.com Correspondent July 28, 2004 Moscow (CNSNews.com) - Russia has begun providing assistance to Iraq's oil sector, hoping to revive its once-strong position there, even as the shadow of the oil-for-food program scandal continues to hang over the industry. A first group of Iraqi oil specialists has arrived in Western Siberia for training at facilities run by Russia's top oil company, LUKoil. The company said Tuesday it planned to train 100 Iraqi oil workers this year, and another 150 each year between 2005 and 2009. It also plans to provide $5-million dollars worth of humanitarian supplies in 2004-5 to assist the recovery of Iraq's oil sector. In a statement, the oil giant's president, Vagit Alekperov, said the arrival of the first group was an important step in dialogue with Iraq and a "good start" for future Russian oil projects in Iraq. Russia, which opposed the war to overthrow Saddam Hussein and has refused to send peacekeepers to help rebuild and secure Iraq, hopes to secure its decades' old oil investments in the country under the new government. In 1997, Hussein signed a 23-year, multi-billion-dollar contract with a LUKoil-led consortium to develop the West Qurna-2 oil fields, but canceled the deal in February 2003, just before the war. LUKoil insists that the mega-deal remains valid and hopes to be pumping crude in the country as early as next year. It signed a memorandum of understanding signed with the Iraqi Oil Ministry earlier this year dealing with rebuilding the industry and training Iraqi workers. At the same time, an "understanding" was reportedly reached over the West Qurna issue. During a visit to Moscow this week, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said Baghdad would "carefully assess all of our previous agreements with Russian companies" but also said there was "a strong chance" Russia would keep or secure new oil contracts. The two governments are to appoint representatives to check into all Russian contracts agreed under the previous regime, including those within the framework of the United Nations' oil-for-food program, Zebari said. The U.N. program is a sensitive issue in Russia because of allegations that Russian entities illegally benefited from a project that was designed to help ordinary Iraqis at a time the regime was targeted by international sanctions. Earlier this year, Iraqi media alleged that some 40 Russian companies and individuals, including entities linked to the Russian Orthodox Church, the Communist Party and the far-right Liberal Democratic Party, took part in an illegal kickback scheme. Russian officials and oil companies have denied the claims, which are the subject of a probe approved by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Russia was Iraq's largest supplier under the program. Of the $18.3 billion in oil-for-food contracts approved by the Security Council, some $4.2 billion went to Russia. Eleven Russian oil companies bought tens of million of barrels of oil from Iraq under the deal. Earlier this month, the Iraqi official heading the investigation into the scandal, Ihsan Karim, was killed in a bomb attack. Lukoil Hopes Training of Iraqi Oil Men Will Yield Contracts To Work Iraqi Fields Moscow Nezavisimaya Gazeta in Russian 28 Jul 04 p 2 [Report by Petr Orekhin: "Road to Baghdad Goes by Way of Kogalym. Lukoil Hopes That Program To Train Iraqi Specialists Will Help It To Recover Oil Fields in That Country"] The first Iraqi specialists who will undergo practical training at Lukoil enterprises arrived yesterday in the city of Kogalym in the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug. In this way the memorandum of mutual understanding and cooperation between Lukoil and the Iraqi Oil Ministry, which was signed in Baghdad in March of this year, has begun to be implemented. It is obvious that the company's main interest lies not in teaching the Iraqis something but in persuading the country's new leadership to leave Lukoil with the contracts to work a number of fields which were concluded under the [Saddam] Husayn regime. "I regard the arrival of the first group of Iraqi oilmen at Lukoil for practical training as one more step in the development of our dialogue with the Iraqi side. I am sure that our cooperation in the humanitarian sphere marks a good start for Russian companies to begin implementing oil projects in Iraq," Lukoil President Vagit Alekperov said. At present, however, the fate of these contracts is unknown. Iraqi Oil Minister Thamir al-Ghadban told RIA Novosti that all the contracts in the oil sphere concluded earlier by foreign companies with Iraq now "are at the stage of being studied and prepared." This concerns Russian companies too. "I hope that it (the decision on the contracts -- Nezavisimaya Gazeta) will be acceptable and will satisfy everyone," the Iraqi oil minister declared. The
Russian left-wingers' linkup seen as step towards
>From the "Putinoid press," owned by Boris Berezovsky. BBC Monitoring Russian left-wingers' linkup seen as step towards manageable opposition Source: Kommersant, Moscow, in Russian 3 Aug 04 The Motherland faction has announced its plans to coordinate its actions with the Communists in the Duma. The Kremlin is reportedly unperturbed by the opposition's joining of forces. Moreover, according to a Russian paper, this move was authorized by the Kremlin, which regards it as a step towards a "manageable opposition". The following is excerpted from a report by Russian newspaper Kommersant on 3 August. Subheadings have been inserted editorially. Dmitriy Rogozin, leader of the Motherland faction in the Duma and of the party of the same name, yesterday announced his intention to create a coordinating council with the CPRF [Communist Party of the Russian Federation] faction for joint actions in the State Duma. The Communists reacted favourably to the idea, although they regard the Motherland as a "Kremlin project". But the Motherland's initiative will not go beyond the framework of the level of opposition permitted by the Kremlin: even united, the left-wing minority is incapable of obstructing the adoption of laws needed by the authorities, but on the other hand Mr Rogozin himself will be able to earn political points by demonstrating his opposition credentials to voters yet again. [Passage omitted]. Similarities The Duma Communists proved ready for an alliance - despite the fact that since the moment that the Motherland bloc emerged they have described it as "the Kremlin's pocket bloc", created to split the camp of left-wing and patriotic forces. As Ivan Melnikov explained to Kommersant yesterday, the Motherland faction "is a mix of different people, and many of them are close to the CPRF faction in terms of their approach, their assessments, and their analysis". In Comrade Melnikov's opinion, this is evidenced by the results of Duma voting "on basic laws in the last year and a half". He therefore feels that "it is logical and natural in principle to take the next step - to move from recording that they have common positions to coordinated actions". Differences But for all the similarity over their approaches and voting motives in the Duma, the CPRF and the Motherland have fundamentally different opposition credentials. The Communists are opposed to One Russia, the government, and the president, where as nobody from the Motherland leadership has ever spoken out against the president. Dmitriy Rogozin himself has always stressed that his associates have complaints only against the government. And yesterday too, when criticizing the government draft law on benefits, he preferred to talk about "the astonishing shift of the parliamentary majority to an extreme right-wing position", which, in the Communists' view, is definitely not astonishing since it reflects the liberal bias in President Putin's policy. The Kremlin's alleged designs Moreover, during that same February when Mr Rogozin became the sole leader of the Motherland party, Kommersant's sources in the presidential administration were saying that it was the Kremlin that had given Motherland carte blanche to demonstratively display "tough opposition". Kremlin spin doctors gave the Motherland the role of "the number two party of power", which would win the attention of voters if One Russia should for some reason lose its image as "the number one party of power". And the Duma examination of the draft law on benefits is the very occasion when One Russia is at risk of severely undermining its image as "the defenders of the people". So it is not hard to suggest that Mr Rogozin has also agreed to an alliance with the CPRF with the Kremlin's knowledge. The combined votes of the Motherland (39 deputies) and the CPRF (51 deputies) will not, however outweigh One Russia's constitutional majority, so there is no threat to either the benefits law or other laws that the executive branch needs. On the other hand, Motherland will be able to demonstrate to voters that it is not afraid of speaking out against the authorities and concluding an alliance with the Communists, who have withdrawn to a position of total opposition. And this will ultimately increase the Kremlin's chances of creating a manageable left-wing opposition in Russia. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: The NY Times, the Democratic Party and Italian fascism
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: He liked the fact that Soviet children wore uniforms, etc. Oh, my back!) --- Most people in Russia want to bring that back on a voluntary basis. Personally I find Young Pioneer uniforms to be adorable. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
A Wave of (Israeli) Jews Returning to Russia
A Wave of Jews Returning to Russia By Anatoly Medetsky Staff Writer Vladimir Filonov / MT As the Iron Curtain began to fall, Igor Dzhadan left the Soviet Union with his family, bound for Israel and a longforbidden opportunity. Dzhadan was luckier than most of the 11,000 Soviet doctors who rushed to Israel around the same time, 1990, under Israel's Law of Return. He was able to continue practice and research. Still, he returned to Russia in 2001 to become an editor at Moscow's Jewish News Agency. "It was interesting for me to live in a Jewish state, but I feel more comfortable in Russia," Dzhadan said. "I knew from the experience of others that I could find work here and my life prospects wouldn't be worse than in Israel." Dzhadan is part of a tide of emigrants who have returned to Russia from Israel over a litany of concerns: the second intifada, Israel's worsening economy, an inability to adapt to cultural and social realities. According to a study released this March, at least 50,000 emigrants returned from Israel from 2001 to 2003. The exodus has stirred up a discussion in Israel, said Boruch Gorin, head of the public relations department at the Russian Federation of Jewish Communities, which commissioned the study. On the one hand, millions of Jews already live outside Israel. On the other hand, "living in Israel is an ideology, and tthat the people who sought a shelter in the country have been leaving is a blow to the ideology," he said. (snip) Another reason for returning was what Dzhadan called the "sectarian" structure of the society. In order to rent an apartment or find a job, a person has to operate through members of his party or immigrants from the same country or area. "I didn't like it," he said. "I'm used to operating in an open society where people don't ask you to what community you belong." http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/08/04/003.html __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Russian media
I am reminded by a recent exchange that the party line in the West is that the Russian media are uniformly pro-Putin. This is not true. The three national TV channels generally follow the Kremlin line. Some political shows have closed, which is a shame. However, this is not true of the print media. The print media are controlled by various business groups and/or political factions. E.g. Sovetskaya Rossiya is the newspaper of the Communist Party. Zavtra is ultra-nationalist. Novaya Gazeta is anti-Putin to the point of psychosis. Kommersant is owned by Boris Berezovsky. If you want confirmation of this, simply go to their respective websites and, assuming you can't read Russian, Babelfish a couple of articles. They will read like Dadaist poetry, but you will get the idea. The two widest-circulation papers in Russia, Argumenty i Fakty and Komsomolskaya Pravda, are at www.aif.ru and www.kp.ru, respectively. Novaya Gazeta's often-bizarre ramblings are at http://www.novayagazeta.ru/. Kommersant, which I guess the Kremlin just forgot to shut down, is at http://www.kommersant.ru/. Indeed, Kommersant has an English-labguage website, which may or may not have different content than the main one. I haven't checked. http://www.kommersant.com/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: The Soviet "empire" was a drain on Moscow
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any modern economy operating on the basis of the exchange of labor is going to manifest economic inequality. What Russia junked was socialism. The people of the Soviet Union understood that Brezhnev was not a Red. I remember their jokes from this period . . . concerning Brezhnev trying to impress his mother with his power and wealth and privileges. At the end of the story . . . Brezhnev's mother looks at him and says . . . "you have done well son . . . but what you gonna do when the Reds come back?" --- Everybody in the USSR knew about his fleet of cars, his big boat, and the stuff with women and alcohol. Andropov distributed videotapes of Brezhnev engaging in compromising behavior as part of his anti-Brezhnev campaign -- unfortunately for him, not many Soviets had VCRs! That said, the Brezhnev-era USSR was a reasonably OK place to live for most of the population, if you weren't unlucky enough to get stuck in a communal apartment with bad neighbors. It was the apex of the Soviet way of life. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: China and socialism
All right, one final word and then I am outta here. The inanity of that statement is breathtaking. I worked for the Russia Journal for three years. (Actually I am somewhat proud of the fact that the eXile praised my editorials. That's pretty rare.) I think I know how the Russian media work. "Putinoid." How lame. How New York Times. --- Chris Doss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Putinite press" -- You quote from all kinds of > things, yourself, > Louis. > - > > How does somebody who doesn't read Russian know jack > shit about the Russian press, "Putinite" are > otherwise? How lame. That's not how the Russian > media > work. Anyway that's my last word on the subject. > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: China and socialism
"Putinite press" -- You quote from all kinds of things, yourself, Louis. - How does somebody who doesn't read Russian know jack shit about the Russian press, "Putinite" are otherwise? How lame. That's not how the Russian media work. Anyway that's my last word on the subject. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: China and socialism
I would never have read this if it hadn't been referenced by Kenneth. >You have stated publicly on LBO-Talk that >censorship was not a problem in the USSR >and that people could read whatever they >want. You also quote liberally from the , >which fails to meet Rupert Murdoch's >standards by all accounts Virtually nothing was banned in the USSR. It was not imported or printed, but that is not the same thing. Just ask Wojtek Sokolowski. The same was true in Poland. What does it mean to "quote liberally from the ,"? __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: The Soviet "empire" was a drain on Moscow
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: it's clear that the USSR subsidized its satellites, but that doesn't make it any less of an empire, since the USSR didn't grant its "allies" independence until the USSR itself was falling apart. All it says is that you can't generalize from US-dominated capitalist imperialism to apply abstract theories to the USSR-dominated empire, just as you can't generalize from the classical Roman empire to apply abstract theories to the US- or USSR-dominated empires. (Similarly, just because the USSR was a class society doesn't mean that we can generalize from our understanding of capitalsm to apply abstract theories to it.) jd --- Russians lived more poorly than people in any other of the republics or in the Eastern Bloc (except maybe Albania?). Moscow may have been a possible exception. It's one of the reasons why Russia junked them. Ironically, those losses of subsidies have resulted in the wealthiest of the republics -- like Georgia and Moldova -- into the poorest. Russians now live better than people anywhere else in the fSU, except maybe the Baltics, which is why you have so much illegal immigration from them into Russia. There are lots of Soviet jokes depicting Castro as sucking at Brezhnev's teat. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: China and socialism
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first rule of politics for political leaders on the side of the proletariat in the American Union is that if the New York Times or Washington Post run a story on China . . . position yourself in opposition to it and you will be on the right side of the polarity . . . 90% of the time . . . always. A 10% loss rate is acceptable for any political leader. -- For the NYT or WP, everything bad that happens in China or Russia is the result of a nefarious plot hatched in Beijing or Moscow. For the life of me I can't understand why people who would be hypersceptical over these papers' coverage of, say, Venezuela cite them as impeachable sources on other parts of the world. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Tashkent looks to Moscow to replace lost U.S. aid
Tashkent looks to Moscow to replace lost U.S. aid The Jamestown Foundation Eurasia Daily Monitor Thursday, 22 July 2004 - Volume 1, Issue 57 WASHINGTON PUSHES KARIMOV CLOSER TO MOSCOW On July 15 Elizabeth Jones, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs, officially concluded her two-day visit to Uzbekistan, where she had met with the country's leadership and local representatives of several human rights organizations. On July 13, on the eve of her visit to Tashkent, the U.S. administration announced its decision to cut $18 million in financial assistance to Uzbekistan. According to the official statement issued by the U.S. Department of State, this measure was adopted in reaction to "the insufficient progress in implementing democratic reforms" in Uzbekistan. The statement specifically mentioned the deaths of suspects held in prisons and the unwillingness of the authorities to register opposition parties. There is increasing speculation that Great Britain and other European Union members may follow suit (Nezavisimaya gazeta, July 15, 2004) Many observers in Uzbekistan and Russia believe that Assistant Secretary Jones had intended to hold private discussions about human rights issues with the Uzbekistani leadership, to whom Washington repeatedly expressed sincere gratitude for assistance in the conduct of the anti-terrorist operation in Afghanistan. Uzbekistan was the first of the post-Soviet Central Asian states to offer the United States permission to open an air force base on its territory, specifically in Khanabad, which is located close to the border with Afghanistan. This air base became the largest U.S. military bridgehead in the region, and it marked the beginning of a serious shift in the balance of strategic forces between the United States and Russia. In the course of her visit, Jones was supposed to convince Tashkent that the aforementioned decision to cut financial assistance did not imply a change in the American interests in the region or the unwillingness to continue cooperation with Uzbekistan. According to sources close to government circles in Uzbekistan, Tashkent did not take the news of the $18 million cut well, as the government had relied on the funds. The U.S. Department of State's decision is viewed as a public rebuke of the Karimov regime, and Uzbekistan's leaders realize that this move signals a new and very unfavorable turnaround by Washington. However, President Islam Karimov will not respond by revoking the agreement on the American air base in Khanabad, because its operation brings a relatively small but stable income to the Uzbekistani authorities. Besides, the continuous operation of the air base is considered an asset for the stability of the regime. It must be also noted that Washington continues to offer substantial military-technical assistance to Uzbekistan. In May 2004 the United States gave Tashkent equipment and special hardware for border defense, which was worth total of $516,600. Since April 2000 the total of American military-technical assistance to Uzbekistan amounts to approximately $7 million. Some political elites in Tashkent believe that Karimov had anticipated the shift in U.S. attitudes long before it occurred. For example, when he visited the United States in 2002, Karimov was furious that his arrival at Andrews Air Force Base was greeted only by Assistant Secretary Jones. For the president of a country with 25 million people, this was a demeaning diplomatic gesture. Karimov had flown to Washington with hopes of securing U.S. political support and to resolve many internal problems with the American financial assistance. Nonetheless, by late 2002 U.S. financial aid to Uzbekistan amounted to only $160 million and another $55 million in loans to purchase goods in the United States for developing small and medium business in Uzbekistan. As one well-connected source commented, "This meant that Tashkent was put in the common waiting line in front of the main entrance to the White House." In September 2003 Karimov told Russian President Vladimir Putin, who had made a brief stopover in Samarkand on his way to India, that he had finally overcome the initial "euphoria" of hopes related to developing economic relations with the West. This meeting prompted the later reassessment of relations between Uzbekistan and Russia, which eventually culminated in the two presidents signing the Uzbekistan-Russia Treaty on Strategic Cooperation in June 2004. Moreover, Uzbekistan and Russia also reviewed their bilateral military cooperation and resolved to strengthen this relationship. Tashkent firmly believes that, unlike Washington, Moscow will never make its assistance contingent on demands for democratic changes. At the same time Uzbekistan does not want to jeopardize its relations with the United States and wants to preserve the bilateral partnership. This is why on the eve of the Jones visit to Tashkent, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is
Re: A Question for the Moderator
I wrote: On the subject of foreign fighters in Chechnya, I should have added that, if memory serves, both the Kremlin and the various rebel sources put the number of foreigners in Chechnya at any given time at about 200. So, it's not a lot (given that there are supposedly about 1,500 full-time fighters). But they serve a major ideological and financial role. -- I add: Peter Lavelle interviewed the recently assassinated Akhmad Kadyrov, ex-rebel turned pro-Moscow president of Chenchya, last year (I edited the interview). I've linked to it before. Here, Kadyrov is referring to the role of the foreigners in Chechnya. By "people of other nationalities," I assume he means, first and foremost, Arabs like Khattab. How do you estimate your opponents' chances? Can they pose serious competition for you in the election? I say it again - time will tell. I do not want to be philosophical about the seriousness of my competitors; I do not want to discuss that. One can see with the naked eye what they have done and contributed to the Republic of Chechnya to avoid war. Where were they in 1997-1999, and what were they doing when I was fighting Wahhabism? What were they doing to prevent the war? I have been living in Chechnya all this time, and I have always been against Wahhabis, which is why they constantly had me in their sights. The assassination attempts against me were not accidental. Who prepared them and what for? I always said that Wahhabism is unacceptable for the Chechen nation. We are Muslims, and we did not convert to Sufi Islam just a couple of days ago. They tried to thrust an idea upon us that had been originally invented against Islam, albeit allegedly under the banner of Islam. Do you see the Republic of Chechnya as a Muslim, an Islamic one? I was strongly against the introduction of a Sharia government in the republic - but not because I did not want such a thing. I am working hard for it, actually. But I know that we are not ready. One has to nurture a new generation, to raise children in the spirit of Islam. The Sharia regulations that they gave us were simply an interpretation of the Sudanese ones. They were approved by Yandarbiyev, and he did not ask anyone. When Aslan Maskhadov and I visited Saudi Arabia and met with the government of Sudan, Sudanese officials told us that it had taken them 11 years to institute a Sharia government. Did we want to have everything done in one day? Things do not work like that. Furthermore, who dictated Islam to us? Movladi Udugov, who does not have any idea what Islam is? Or Maskhadov and Yandarbiyev? Who are they? They do not know the bases of Islam, they do not understand it. All these people ran a separatist policy deliberately. Why is all this happening in Chechnya? Because the Chechens are warriors, first and foremost. Second, they are very trusting people - I am saying this to you as a Chechen man. We trust everyone else, but we do not trust each other. We believe people of other nationalities more than we believe each other. All the wars that have taken place in Chechnya since the era of tsarist Russia were unleashed by people of other nationalities. Unfortunately, our nation has never had a leader who would stand up for his nation. Military troops were withdrawn from Chechnya on Dec. 31, 1996. But what did "free Chechnya" do? It opened the door to criminals from the entire territory of Russia, the former USSR and its outskirts. Criminals were coming to Chechnya from all over the world - they did not have a place in their own countries. But they could live perfectly well in Chechnya. Non-Muslims were allegedly converting to Islam. It is ridiculous to talk about such a thing . Becoming a Muslim for them implied growing a beard and learning how to pronounce "salam aleykum." What kind of a Muslim is that? I grew up in a very religious family. I could read the Qu'ran easily at the age of five. Do you think I can stay calm when such people try to teach me what Islam is, how to pronounce it and what to do with it?! If Yeltsin and Maskhadov signed a peace treaty between Russia and Chechnya, why did the incursion into Dagestan take place? If we, as a separate state that had concluded a peace treaty with Russia, attack a neighboring republic, a unit of the Russian Federation, is it called Jihad? No, it is not. It is a provocation to unleash a war in Chechnya. But you declared Jihad on Russia in 1995. You were waging war on Shamil Basayev and Aslan Maskhadov's side. Yes, I was on that side, and I am proud that I was able to choose the right way to go. There are specific reasons for why I declared Jihad and why I changed my position. That was a time when people were gripped with the idea of liberation. They thought that people like Dudayev or Yandarbiyev wanted freedom and an Islamic state for Chechnya. And what happened next? There is a rule of Sharia: If the enemy wants to suppress you, you are supposed to put up a strong resistance. But the enemy
Re: A Question for the Moderator
On the subject of foreign fighters in Chechnya, I should have added that, if memory serves, both the Kremlin and the various rebel sources put the number of foreigners in Chechnya at any given time at about 200. So, it's not a lot (given that there are supposedly about 1,500 full-time fighters). But they serve a major ideological and financial role. There is really no group of "rebels" in Chechnya. Chechnya has been in a state of civil war since 1996. You have the nationalists around Maskhadov; then you have the Wahabbis around Basayev; and then simple bandit gangs making money of carnage. (And the three groups interpenetrate.) Finally, you have the so-called Kadyrovtsy, the pro-Moscow security force, composed mostly of former rebels who switched sides, supposedly about 3,000 men. Most of the fighting in Chechnya is between the Kadyrovtsy and the rebels; I have heard that the Chechen Special Forces have declared blood feud on the Basayev clan, and they want the Russian Army to leave so that they can take care of business in their own way, if you get what I mean. The relations between all these groups are very obscure. During de facto independence, there were pitched battles between Maskhadov's men and the Wahabbis. Nevertheless, until the Dubrovka theater hostage-taking, they claimed to be on the same side (Maskhadov condemned the act, while Basayev took credit for it and resigned his official post). When Kadyrov was assassinated, Maskhadov condemned it (it took place, BTW, after a period in which Kadyrov and Maskhadov were allegedly negotiating the latter's surrender). The next day, Basayev took credit for it, and said "I only regret that I do not have Kadyrov's head to give to Maskhadov." Then there is the alternative theory that Maskhadov and Basayev are actually working together, with Basayev carrying out terrorist acts, Maskhadov doing PR in the West while maintaining a state of plausible deniability, and the now-deceased Yandarbiyev doing PR in the Muslim world. Frankly, I don't think Maskhadov has much backing him up at this point beyong his own teip (clan). His men, I think, have mostly either joined the Kadyrovtsy or been radicalized and are now with Basayev. Maskhadov may not even be in Chechnya. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: A Question for the Moderator
--- michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This was the problem that I was referring to when I > was trying to > describe a progression of fragmentations. I first > began to think about > this sort of problem when Lebanon began to fall > apart. At first, it > seemed to be a religious division, but then I began > to realize that > there were divisions within each religion that were > made each others > throats. The situation seemed like a fractal to me. > Look at the post-Soviet situation in the early 90s. The Union falls apart, and you immediately start having all these bloody ethnic conflicts around its former borders: Armenians vs. Azerbaijanis, Georgians vs. Abkhazians and Ossetians, Romanians vs. Russians, Ossetians vs. Ingush... There are 34 distinct ethno-cultural groups in Dagestan, which is about the size of Maryland. There are villages of a few hundred people there that are the only representatives of entire languages. The potential for conflict is immense. __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: JEP
Whoops, obviously yes. I hadn't read that post yet. --- Chris Doss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Shleifer is the editor; DeLong is gone. So the > > journal has become more technical, > > less topical. > > The same Shleifer that was investigated b/c of his > "work" in Russia? > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: JEP
--- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shleifer is the editor; DeLong is gone. So the > journal has become more technical, > less topical. The same Shleifer that was investigated b/c of his "work" in Russia? __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: A Question for the Moderator
--- Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The question, I thought, was whether Kurds, Kashmiris, and Chechens (as well as East Timorese, Albanians in Kosovo, etc. from recent history) have the right to self-determination. --- Yoshie, upon a little reflection, I think this is a pretty naive way of considering the situation. Who gets to determine Chechnya's status? People who live in Chechnya? In 1991, Grozny's population was about 50% non-Chechen. The Nautsky district in Chechnya was about 75% non-Chechen, mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Cossacks who lived there since the 15th century. Those people have almost entirely fled, been forced out, or killed. None of them would have voted for an independent Chechnya. Do their voices matter? If not that, then who? Ethnic Chechens? What about the Chechen Diaspora? There are more Chechens who live outside Chechnya than inside it, and most of them have family members, and certainly have tribal ties, in Chechnya. What about the 100,000 Chechen Akkins living in Dagestan? What will they say? What about the people who live around Chechnya, in Dagestan, Georgia and Ingushetia, who have their lives affected by Chechnya's status? Nobody there wants an independent Chechnya. The Dagestanis would rather see at atomic bomb dropped on Grozny than see it revert to its 1998 condition. The Chechen militants supported the Abkhaz in Georgia's civil war. What do you think Georgians have to say about this? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: A Question for the Moderator
--- Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If Kurds, Kashmiris, Chechens, etc. exercised the right to self-determination, would that necessarily result in the breakup of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, India, and Russia? Presumably, they could very well choose to remain part of the countries in which they currently reside -- especially if most of the armed militants in Kashmir and Chechnya were indeed foreigners as you and Chris have suggested (on this point I am myself agnostic). --- I don't think the _majority_ of fighters in Chechnya are foreigners. Most of them are 15- to 20-year-old Chechen men who have grown up thinking this way of life is normal. But the presence of the international mujaheedin and their ideology is foreign, and it is that ideology and international muj fighters themselves that were decisive in starting the current war. I think it should be pretty obvious that a secular region in an atheist country does not mutate into a fundamentalist Islamic state in four years without foreign influence. Actually the Islamic Code of Chechnya was copied from the Sudanese one. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: No longer about Israel or Kurds
The idea that Great Russian Chauvinism was consolidated with Stalin is preposterous and almost laughable if this was not a serious issue. Does not the beginning of what would become the Russian State go back at least 400 years? --- Actually the idea of what it means to be "Russian" has changed several times and the idea even of what a "nationality" is in the Russian context has changed and is changing. I wrote an article on this recently, since I think it's a very interesting subject, Russian national identity in the post-Soviet era. Anyway it has usually been understood in a cultural and not an ethnic or "racial" context, which you would expect from such a multiethnic country in which people have been intermarrying since time immemorial. Even "full-blooded" ethnic Russians are part Slavic, part Scandinavian and part Asian (Tatar/Mongol), which is why they have those big wide eyes. Pushkin was African, and nobody says he wasn't a Russian. I am not sure that "Great Russian" is even a word in contemporary Russian. I have never heard it or seen it in print. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What our dear "brother" has written is that Great Russian chauvinism consolidated itself with Stalin and basically that Lenin himself was not a manifestation of history development that confirms the status of the oppressing people . . . domination and chauvinism. Lenin was not a chauvinist . . . and neither was Stalin or Khrushchev and Brezhnev . . . for that matter. --- Actually the Soviet Union had affirmative action programs for minorities. That's why the elite in Bashkortostan are mostly Bashkirs, even though Bashkirs are a minority there (third-largest population in the republic after Russians and Tatars). __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Failure of socialist revolution in the West is fault of Kremlin
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are saying that the failure of socialist revolution in the West . . . America and 90 years of brutal segregation is directly attributable to the Kremlin and not the contempt that the Anglo American people have poured on the African American masses for the better part of a century . . . and this is connected to the lack of Gay Rights and experimental art in the freaking Soviet Union. --- Actually there was experimental art in the Soviet Union. It was just not exhibited in public places. I know some of the people involved. They exhibited in their apartments. Just because something was not officially sponsored does not mean that it did not exist. People in the West really, really exaggerate the repressiveness of the Soviet Union, in my opinion. I don't know who is worse on this, the conservatives, the Trotskyists or the anarchists. They all needed an Evil Empire to compare themselves too. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: ethnic divisions
Although I am highly disappointed by the low level of discourse on Kerala/Chechnya, I do have a serious question that might deflect the discussion. Are the ethnic hostilities something that would naturally die out without being enflamed intentionally for political gains or are they inevitable? --- In the case of Russia/Chechnya, I think ethnic divisions were dying out slowly over the Soviet period for a variety of reasons (though Stalin's deportation of Chechens and other groups and the violent application of the Short Course in Western Ukraine and the Baltics increased them in those areas). In any case, they have gotten much much worse since 1991. Caucasians were depicted as happy-go-lucky Bohemians on Soviet TV. They are portrayed as gangsters, pimps and terrorists on contemporary Russian TV. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: non-Russian Great Russian Chauvinism.
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (Andropov was Russian wasn't he? And isn't the Ukraine part of "great Russia"?) --- Yes, Andropov was Russian. It is rumored that he was Jewish. (His great grand-niece is a friend of mine, by the way.) But he was in power, what, a year? Chernenko is a Ukrainian name. Never call Ukraine "the Ukraine" to a Ukrainian nationalist. You will get a black eye. "Ukraine" means "the borderlands." __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: India Turned Kashmir into the Bitter Place It Is Now
It doesn't matter if it is typical. It matters if it is true. -- Yoshie --- It will always be a priori true for the Guardian. I'm outta here, it's late. Bye! __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
If voting is merely an individual moral gesture, why not make a better moral gesture than a worse one, such as refusing to vote for a terrorist? -- Yoshie How do you know Nader wouldn't be a terrorist? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
They were formally autonomous. In reality, there was Great Russian chauvinism from just around the time that Stalin was consolidating power. Lenin's concern over this matter prompted him to wage his final struggle against Stalin. --- If a Georgian with a goofy accent can be a Great Russian chauvinist. Let's see, Stalin - Georgian, Khrushchev = Ukrainian, Brezhnev = probably an ethnic Ukrainian from Moldova, Gorbachev = from Ukraine too... hey, were any of the "Great Russian chauvinist" leaders actually Russian? Nope. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
> > The terrorist "theory" is that by blowing things up, > the powers > that be will crack down and alienate the population, > so that > the population will join the insurgent movement. > Specifically > in Iraq, it's supposed to show that the US hasn't > brought order > to the country. The hope is that the people will > blame the US > for the killings. Wouldn't the most logical reaction be to hate both parties involved? That seems to be the reaction in Chechnya and the Caucasus. Basayev and Maskhadov have near-zero street cred, as far as I can tell, as does the pro-Kremlin government. BTW I found this interview with Kadyrov, the head of the pro-Kremlin security force and son of the recently assassintade president of Chechnya, to be quite interesting. Man does he come across like a badass mo-fo. I wouldn't want to mess with him. Translated from Russian. Ramzan Kadyrov Quizzed on Ingushetia Raid, Backing for Alkhanov, Russian Troops Moscow Moskovskiy Komsomolets in Russian 15 Jul 04 p 4 [Interview with [Chechen First Vice Premier] Ramzan Kadyrov by Irina Kuksenkova, datelined Tsentoroy-Moscow; date not specified: "The Heir. Ramzan Kadyrov in Exclusive Interview with Moskovskiy Komsomolets: 'I Always Wanted To Secure Freedom for Myself and All My Fellow Countrymen'" -- taken from HTML version of source provided by ISP] Tsentoroy-Moscow -- [passage omitted comprising introductory paragraphs] "Ramzan Kadyrov will give Moskovskiy Komsomolets an interview. At his home in Tsentoroy," I was told during a telephone call from an official in the Chechen president's security service. He met me in the evening at Mineralnyye Vody Airport. [passage omitted on journey to Tsentoroy, describing Ramzan Kadyrov's home, noting Kadyrov's preliminary remarks about his love for Groznyy, hopes for Chechnya] [Kuksenkova] Let us return to recent events in Ingushetia. Why did the gunmen attack Nazran, what statement did they want make in doing this? [Kadyrov] They did not want to make any statement. They needed weapons, they took them and off they went. That is logical... This blunder represents weakness on the part of the Ingushetian leadership. Devils [shaytany] are at work there in the police (Ramzan describes "corrupt cops" as devils -- author's note). A conference of Caucasus peoples was recently held in Sochi and attended by Putin. At the time I told [Ingushetian President] Murat Zyazikov: Get a move on, there are said to be many devils in your republic, we have begun seeing similar sentiments and movements from you. He said that he would work on it... None of the republics in the Caucasus wants anarchy at home. After all, where there are Wahhabites, there is always bloodshed, that is written in the Koran. This happened in Ingushetia due to breaches in state structures. And the same thing will happen in Dagestan. They have loads of devils there. In Chechnya the gunmen do not have many opportunities at present because we have really piled the pressure on them. And we have good leaders now. [Kuksenkova] Which gunmen attacked Nazran that night? [Kadyrov] "Magas" (that is his call sign) was in command, Zaid was there, there was an Arab Abu-Umar, and Basayev... But Basayev is not a Chechen. His father was an Ossetian or an Avar. And, pardon me for saying so, that is not a Chechen. There is no need to say "Chechens," "Ingush," "Russians," or "Americans": A bandit is a bandit even in Africa. What is more, it is you journalists who have castigated the Chechens. I do not actually like Moscow journalists. Many of them lie and are corrupt. Some of them are trying to foment war in our republic themselves. Tell me, can you see a war? You write the stories. I have tried to explain the situation, I have gotten tired of arguing the point. I do not pay attention to the press now. We are simply not left in peace, Chechens are set against one another. You yourselves do not do the killing, but you incite us to bloodshed. Now I will read Moskovskiy Komsomolets... Certainly. [Kuksenkova] Is it true that you are courting [NTV presenter] Aset Vatsuyeva? [Kadyrov] Asey? That is news to me! We will call Mrs. Vatsuyeva now and she will tell you about our relationship. Hello, Asiyat? Hi! How are things? I wanted to ask you something... It is being said that I am courting you. What do you think about that? [Kadyrov ends] Ramzan put the phone to my ear -- Aset gave a peal of laughter. [Vatsuyeva] He dumped me a long time ago. [Kadyrov] Asya is a smart woman, he said turning to me. An example of a real Chechen woman. We are all proud of her... There is no force more powerful than a woman. All her strength lies in her weakness. [Kuksenkova] Why are you backing Alu Alkhanov in the upcoming election? [Kadyrov] Because he is an astute, wise, competent politician, a very interesting individual, a man of his word, generally speaking, a real Chechen. Alu has inside knowle
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
--- Charles Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: CB: The SU had autonomous regions. -- Russia still does. Tatarstan is the case in point. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: India Turned Kashmir into the Bitter Place It Is Now
--- Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > India turned Kashmir into the bitter place it is now Typical Guardian headline: Big country (fill in name of big country here) turned small country (fill in name of small country here) into the bitter place it is now. Small countries are by definition victims of other countries and share no responsibility whatsoever for the situation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
--- Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lately the "resistance" in Iraq has mainly been killing people at open-air markets. The anti-imperialist content of this strategy is hard to discern. Doug --- It doesn't have anti-imperialist content. The point is to make themselves look badass on TV and Jihadi websites and get money and converts. That's why they always stage high-profile PR campaigns of zero military content, like the raid on Ingushetia or the attack on the Indian parliament. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
Speak of the devil. Unnamed Sources Expect Iraq To Attract Arab Fighters from Chechnya, Kashmir Beirut Al-Diyar (Internet Version-WWW) in Arabic 03 Jul 04 [Report from Paris by Al-Diyar correspondent Badra Bakhus al-Faghali: "Western sources expect Iraq to turn into a center for fundamentalists from Chechnya and Kashmir."] Western diplomatic sources expect Iraq to turn into a center attracting fundamentalists, especially Arab fighters from Chechnya and Kashmir, who suffer military pressures imposed on them in these regions. The same sources estimate the total number of Arab and foreign fighters who are affiliated with international fundamentalist organizations in Iraq at 1,000. These fighters came to Iraq to fight against US forces and to receive training on carrying out military operations before they return to their home countries. Half the number of these foreign fighters are Saudi nationals. However, most of the Saudis are now looking for ways to return to Saudi Arabia to reinforce fundamentalist cells in the kingdom after they received training in Iraqi camps. US forces are currently holding in Iraqi prisons some 500 men, mostly Kuwaitis, Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Jordanians, Yemenis, Algerians, Moroccans, and Afghans. After assuming its sovereign responsibilities, the Iraqi Government prepares to introduce entry visas for foreigners, to be issued by Iraqi embassies abroad. Its aim is to impose a better security control over the movement of passengers and goods to ensure that terrorist elements, weapons, and explosives will not enter Iraqi territories. This measure is also aimed at limiting the entry of journalists and businessmen from Western countries because there are no guarantees for their safety, as well as the entry of citizens of neighboring countries, which adopt policies that do not contribute to imposing peace in the country. The only exemption will be granted to military personnel of the United States and coalition countries, which have forces deployed in Iraq. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
--- ravi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: imho, the more important debate is regarding cause and effect: did local popular unrest and uprising lead to the influx of foreign terrorists? or did foreign terrorists bring about the image of local unrest? --- Maybe both are right? __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
--- Ulhas Joglekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is equally true of terrorists in Kashmir. About 70% of terrorists killed in Kashmir in the recent years have been non-Kashmiris. They are usually Punjabis trained by the ISI and smuggled into Kashmir. But other nationalities are also involved. e.g. Uighurs. How they can be regarded as "freedom fighters and anti-imperialists" is hard to understand. --- The "Chechen fighters" referred to in press releases are actually a motley group of Chechens, Afghans, Uzbeks, Ingush, Arabs, and others, including just plain mercenaries. When Basayev and Khattab attacked Dagestan, their group even had some Ukrainians, Balts and of all things an Ethiopian with German citizenship. They only took the bodies of the dead Chechens home and left the others to rot. Khattab was himself an Arab, as is/was his successor (I can't remember his name), who may have been killed. Why do these "national-liberation fighters" seem to rely so much on foreigners? Hmm. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? - Lou P. and Mr. Green
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Give me a break. These so called national movement
> . . . I also have
> Yugoslavia in mind . . . are utterly reactionary
> movements of and led by the
> bourgeoisie and none of them even talk about
> improving the life of the proletariat
> as proletariat. Minister Louis helps more black
> proletarians and advocates an
> economic program for them . . . than the
> reactionaries in Chechnya and the
> Ukraine.
>
Reactionary is an understatement. The Chechen
militants make Mussolini look progressive. ("Death to
the cities! Apartment buildings are the bane of
humanity!") If you'd like I've got some primary
sources on this in Russian I can translate and send.
To my knowledge they are unavailable in English.
__
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Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: there are other options besides secession: Ken mentions federalism, while simply increased democracy (including civil liberties and affirmative action) may do the trick in other situations. --- My personal favorite solution. It works for the rest of Russia, which is an enormously multiethnic country. Compare Chechnya and Dagestan, or Tatarstan. Ironically, Maskhadov, now that he's pretty much given up the independence idea and is struggling just to have some degree of power, is arguing that Chechnya's status in the Russian Federation should be basically like Tatarstan's -- broad autonomy. Considering that Tatarstan accomplished the same thing without firing a shot... well, you draw your own conclusions. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How does this self determination formula apply to the American Union in 2004. There are more African Americans in and around metropolitan Detroit than there are Chechens and the Nation of Islam was birthed in Detroit. Do you gentlemen support and advocate for the right of self determination of these real people . . . up to and including the formation of an independent state? Just curious. --- Of course! We should be calling for the mass Balkanization of the United States. Every Indian reservation should be a separate country. Afro-Americans can get Mississippi and Detroit. The Southwest can go to the Hispanics. We can form a White Nation in the Northwest (wait, I've heard that idea before). No, that's too general: Italian-Americans can take Nevada, Polish-Americans Utah, German-Americans Nebraska. We can find a land without a people for the Jews. All of these litle statelets will be economically prosperous, politically flourishing, and at peace with their neighbors. A brilliant idea. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Whoops, my mistake. I was confusing the Chechen-Ingush republic with the republic of Chechnya. --- Chris Doss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, that's history according to history. Supporting > Dudayev in 1991 is not the same as opposing the > national movement in 1991. > > Look, mister > alienatethepublicwiththenameofmywebsite.com, I > actually know Chechens. Real-live Chechens. They > live > in Moscow. I get drunk with them. They do not > support > the jihadis. > > I am not going to argue this you. > > > In July 2004, we are now informed that > the > > majority of Chechens -- > > indeed, the overwhelming majority of Chechens -- > > opposed the national movement > > in 1991. Well, that's history a la Yeltsin & > > Putin... That's occupier's history, > > history written with a bloody bayonet. The Duma > > denounced Chechen elections on > > November 2, so they never really occurred. > > > > Joseph Green > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Chris Doss wrote: > > > > > I don't know enough about the issue to answer > > whether > > > it was popular or not. But you do not need to > have > > a > > > majority of the population on your side in order > > to > > > have an indigenous uprising. The Chechen > > population, > > > for instance, voted overwhelmingly to remain > part > > of > > > the Russian Federation (then, the Soviet Union) > in > > > 1991. That did not prevent extremists in the > > Chechen > > > population from doing their thing, and the > > moderates > > > were either forced out or fled. I don't know if > > the > > > Kashmiri case is parallel or not. > > > > > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
No, that's history according to history. Supporting Dudayev in 1991 is not the same as opposing the national movement in 1991. Look, mister alienatethepublicwiththenameofmywebsite.com, I actually know Chechens. Real-live Chechens. They live in Moscow. I get drunk with them. They do not support the jihadis. I am not going to argue this you. > In July 2004, we are now informed that the > majority of Chechens -- > indeed, the overwhelming majority of Chechens -- > opposed the national movement > in 1991. Well, that's history a la Yeltsin & > Putin... That's occupier's history, > history written with a bloody bayonet. The Duma > denounced Chechen elections on > November 2, so they never really occurred. > > Joseph Green > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Chris Doss wrote: > > > I don't know enough about the issue to answer > whether > > it was popular or not. But you do not need to have > a > > majority of the population on your side in order > to > > have an indigenous uprising. The Chechen > population, > > for instance, voted overwhelmingly to remain part > of > > the Russian Federation (then, the Soviet Union) in > > 1991. That did not prevent extremists in the > Chechen > > population from doing their thing, and the > moderates > > were either forced out or fled. I don't know if > the > > Kashmiri case is parallel or not. > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Ukraine drops bid to join E.U., NATO
I wrote: --- Chris Doss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. Ukraine is part of the Union of Four (Russia, > Uraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus). The post-Soviet space > is > consolidating itself politically and economically. > Armenia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan and Tajikistan are > also > tilting toward Moscow. Even Georgia, in its own > strange way. > This is a few years old, but I think this article from a Kyrgyz newspaper sheds some light on this process. Kyrgyz paper outlines Russia's interests in Uzbekistan, Central Asia Vladimir Putin's visit to Uzbekistan, his first foreign visit as president of Russia, is recognition by Russia that Uzbekistan is its strategic partner in Central Asia, `Slovo Kyrgyzstana' newspaper wrote on 19th May. The newspaper said that Uzbekistan was the only Central Asian state "which is really able to counter the possible advancement of the Taleban army to north". It also said that Uzbekistan could fit "most organically" into the military and political axis between Belgrade, Minsk, Moscow, Delhi and Beijing which had arisen following NATO's actions in the Balkans. The following is the text of the newspaper article: [newspaper headline] "A battle" for Asia. Some thoughts about Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin's visit to Uzbekistan Today [19th May], Putin is in Tashkent. This is his first visit abroad as the head of the Russian state. It is symbolic that just a few days after the inauguration and his advent to the post officially, the second Russian president headed for the republics of Central Asia (more likely, Putin will visit Dushanbe after Tashkent). Why namely Tashkent rather than Astana and Bishkek? It is needless to copy the Russian Foreign Ministry's protocols. The visit has been prepared in good time and carefully. Even as prime minister, Putin met the Uzbek leader, Islam Karimov, in Tashkent, and the sides outlined strategic ways of rapprochement back then, perhaps, for the first time after so many years of "separation". The Russian president's visit to the Uzbek capital today is the logical conclusion to the first and, a priori, recognition of Uzbekistan by Russia as its strategic partner in Central Asia. It is namely Uzbekistan and not Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan or Tajikistan. Everything is clear with the latter. Tajikistan cannot survive without Russia. Tajikistan, which still suffers from the consequences of the civil war , is being torn by conflicts with the opposition and which feels a constant threat from its southern neighbour - warring Afghanistan, looks at the mouth of Moscow as at its beloved mother. Russia is increasing its economic and, what is the main thing, its military presence in Tajikistan and it is well aware that otherwise the external threat from Afghanistan will be more noticeable. Yet the "unpredictable" Taleban, should they suddently take it into their head, will go across the Pamirs like a knife through butter, and it is just the presence of Russian servicemen in Tajikistan that in the past few years has been the most powerful deterrent to the commanders and spiritual leaders of the Taleban movement. More or less everything is clear for Putin with Kyrgyzstan as well. "Yes, you, too, are our strategic partner," Moscow has agreed in response to Bishkek's recognition of Russia as its strategic partner, but, all this is, very likely, as far as global politics is concerned. Russia is courteous and considerate to Kyrgyzstan and is helping with everything in its power, but there is a feeling that everything has been put off until a later time. The membership of the Customs Union of four [Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan], in spite of the abundance of multilateral and bilateral documents which were signed within the framework of this union, has not opened for Kyrgyzstan the long-awaited "safety valve". A window onto Europe did not pan out. Kyrgyzstan, which, with its destroyed economy, is hovering on the edge of an economic precipice, is of no interest at all for Russia in this respect. Moreover, official Bishkek must tackle the moot problem of its so-called "Russian-speaking people" on its own and as soon as possible. They may be given help to survive and remain in the republic or be squeezed out completely (this also is possible), but in this case, Russia will turn its back on Kyrgyzstan completely and take back the word "strategic" Russia has special relations with Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan, which has common borders with Russia, a comparatively stable economy and a powerful Slavonic "stratum" in its north, has really become a strategic partner for Russia. Relations between the two countries are close and they must and will develop coherently and dynamically, at least, for two to three decades to come. There remains Uzbekistan with its president wh
Re: Ukraine drops bid to join E.U., NATO
Yes. Ukraine is part of the Union of Four (Russia, Uraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus). The post-Soviet space is consolidating itself politically and economically. Armenia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan and Tajikistan are also tilting toward Moscow. Even Georgia, in its own strange way. --- Ulhas Joglekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Hindu > > Wednesday, Jul 28, 2004 > > Ukraine drops bid to join E.U., NATO > > By Vladimir Radyuhin > > MOSCOW, JULY 27. Ukraine has formally abandoned its > goal of joining NATO in > a sign of its growing tilt towards Russia. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: India's HDI Improves, Ranking Doesn't
--- ravi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: nothing unites like hate. and for that there is pakistan and/or muslims. the common language i share with my indian spouse is english. but not to worry with respect to commonality... advice from some relatives/acquaintances on both sides struck a common chord: marry someone soon, but just don't marry a muslim! even one of the those american boys/girls is ok... -- There must be more of a unifying Indian identity than just shared hatred of Muslims and Pakistan. Wasn't there a kind of pan-Indian nationalism that manifested itself during the struggle for independence? How do non-Kashmiri Indian Muslims view the Kashmir issue? Is it seen in religious terms? Russian Muslims (20% of the population) do not see Chechnya in religious terms (except insofar as they view Wahabbis as being false Muslims). __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
that may be true, but would you then agree with BBC's assessment that it started as an essentially indigenous and popular uprising? if so, that is all the more reason to ask the people. counterinsurgency warfare might be a dirty business (and i doubt you condone it), but it is all the more dirty when the actions are partially aimed at silencing the people or denying them a voice. --ravi --- I don't know enough about the issue to answer whether it was popular or not. But you do not need to have a majority of the population on your side in order to have an indigenous uprising. The Chechen population, for instance, voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the Russian Federation (then, the Soviet Union) in 1991. That did not prevent extremists in the Chechen population from doing their thing, and the moderates were either forced out or fled. I don't know if the Kashmiri case is parallel or not. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Sino-Russian military exercises
BTW I think he makes too much of the use of the word "comrade." "Comrade" has about as much political meaning in Russia as "sir" does in English. PRC: Renmin Wang Article Views Upcoming Sino-Russian Military Exercises Beijing Renmin Wang WWW-Text in Chinese 09 Jul 04 [Article appearing on Renmin Wang homepage by Russian-based correspondent, Lu Yansong, and contributing correspondent Gu Xiaoqing: "Huanqiu Shibao: China and Russia To Hold Their First-ever Bilateral Military Exercise"] The Chinese and Russian armed forces both have glorious histories, and they are also important forces in maintaining world peace and stability today. As a major aspect of the Sino-Russian strategic cooperative partnership, cooperation between their armed forces is continually deepening. On 6 July, PRC Central Military Commission [CMC] Vice Chairman Guo Boxiong and Russian Minister of National Defense Ivanov signed a memorandum in Moscow on holding joint Sino-Russian military exercises. This means that the Chinese and Russian armed forces will hold their historic first bilateral joint military exercise. China and Russia Will Stage "Higher Scale Military Exercises" The weather in Moscow in early July is beautiful and the scene is pleasant. At the invitation of Russian Minister of National Defense Ivanov, CMC Vice Chairman Colonel General Guo Boxiong is heading a delegation on a five-day official visit to Russia. Although the military delegation's activities are low key, the journalists could see from their chest badges that it includes many well-known generals, such as Beijing Military Region Commander General Zhu Qi, Second Artillery Corps Political Commissar Lieutenant General Peng Xiaofeng, Navy Deputy Commander Vice Admiral Wang Yucheng, Air Force Deputy Commander Lieutenant General Wang Chaoqun, and CMC General Office Deputy Director Major General Wang Guanzhong. The Ministry of National Defense building in central Moscow appeared particularly grand on the morning of 6 July. When the Chinese military delegation's cars arrived at the building, Defense Minister Ivanov was awaiting them in the hall on the first floor. After a brief welcoming ceremony, the leaders of the two armed forces held formal talks. During the talks, Guo Boxiong stated that along with the development of Sino-Russian relations, exchanges and cooperation between their armed forces are being stepped up all the time, and relations between their armed forces are developing in healthy and steady fashion. Ivanov stated that Russian-Chinese military relations are now developing extremely smoothly, and Russia is satisfied at this. After the talks ended, leaders of the two armed forces signed a memorandum on holding joint Sino-Russian military exercises. Ivanov told reporters: "We have already instructed the two general staff departments to prepare for the joint exercise." Guo Boxiong said for his part that the signing of the memorandum is an important step in the development of Sino-Russian military relations. Since there is some time to go before the joint exercises are held, the two sides did not reveal the details. According to the Russian media, the joint exercises will start next year. According to the analysis of Russian military experts, since the Russians call this a "higher scale exercise," the number of troops participating will not be too small. As for the exercise location, since the western section of the Sino-Russian border is only 50 km long and very mountainous, it is not a good place for mobility and spreading out, so the eastern section of the border would be more suitable. At present the eastern section of the border is on the Chinese side the defense zone of Shenyang Military Region, while on the Russian side it is the defense zone of the Far East Military District and Siberian Military District. Russian military figures hold the view that it is most likely that Shenyang Military Region and the Far East Military District will assign units to the exercise. Judging by joint exercises held by China and Russia with foreign armies in recent years, antiterrorism will be the primary option for exercise content. Conditions are Ripe for Success in Sino-Russian Military Exercises Since the founding of new China, the People's Liberation Army [PLA] has never held a bilateral military exercise with Soviet (Russian) forces. According to reports, the Soviet, Chinese, and DPRK held a multilateral exercise in the Soviet coastal region in 1958. China never held a joint exercise with a foreign army for 44 years after that. China and Kyrgyzstan held a joint antiterrorism exercise codenamed "01" in Xinjiang in October 2002, thus raising the curtain on joint exercises between China and foreign forces. In August 2003, members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization held a joint antiterrorism exercise codenamed "Union-2003" on the Kazakhstan-China border. When the Russian armed forces he
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Hi Ravi, you wrote: --- ravi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: i do not know about fighters, but definitely quite a few kashmiris have been killed in kashmir by indian forces. a simple search on amnesty.org for 'kashmir' yields multiple pages and reports of abuse and murder perpetrated by the indian govt and armed forces. --- It's counterinsurgency war -- the main victims in counterinsurgency war are always civilian. It's probably the most brutal form of warfare there is. I don't know about the state of the Indian Army, but most of the horrors against civilians in Chechnya (leavinf aside the tricky question of how to define the term "civilian") are the result of terrified and trigger-happy drafted soldiers who want to get home alive and therefore shoot first and ask questions later. --- BBC> What started as essentially an indigenous popular uprising in BBC> Indian-administered Kashmir has in the last 12 years undergone BBC> major changes. BBC> <...> BBC> some of the groups that were in the forefront of the BBC> armed insurgency in 1989 - particularly the pro-independence BBC> Jammu-Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) - have receded into the BBC> background. --- Sounds like Chechnya to me. I would go as far as to say that anytime the international mujaheedin start to figure prominantly in a conflict, it has almost certainly been hijacked. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
--- sartesian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris, > > You gave a better answer when you earlier when you > said you didn't know. > Assuming want Kashmiris want or don't want is > exactly not the issue. The > issue is the material determinants of the struggle, > the history of the > conflict in the area and what the resolution > requires. True. And I don't know the issue very well. But what I see going on is Pakistan (or elements within Pakistan) and the international mujahedin trying to worsen -- and prolong -- an already bad situation. (They seem to like to do this kind of thing a lot.) I don't know about India, but in this part of the world, "national determination movements" are usually actually a small minority of crazed nationalists being manipulated by cynical politicians. The USSR national-determination-movemented itself out of existence 13 years ago, and everybody is worse off. So I am quite skeptical in general. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
so, are you two saying that kashmiris are a little group that screeches sovereignity? aren't their demands of self-determination legitimate? why would india go down in flames if the people of kashmir were to gain self-determination? --- You're assuming a majority of the people of Kashmir want self-determination. I don't know if they do. Since most fighters killed in Kashmir (as far as I know) are non-Kashmiris, I doubt that they do. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
You're right, I can't read Castro's mind. --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where does this ocme from, Chris. Again, Cuba is > weak -- yet amazingly has survived every imaginable > sort > of pressure -- so it may find it beneficial to side > with Pakistan. But to make your generalization > about > knee-jerk support seems overblown. ___ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: John Kerry and Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes lived through the period of American history that birthed the Red Hot Summers and this reality helped shape the core of his vision . . . not to mention his personal history. Without question Langston's vision was of an America where blacks were not murdered and lynched in mass and segregated for another half century . . . which you equate with a Stalinists vision or a Stalinists America. -- Hughes wrote for Izvestia when he lived in Central Asia in the early 30s. He was the first American writer to be translated into a Central Asian language (Uzbek), I think. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Sure they've been oppressed (as far as I know -- I'm not informed on the issue). I'm alluding to certain segments in the US according to him a group is oppressed or not according to whether or not it is pro- or anti-US or Israel. --- Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris, why the sarcastic "Ha.? The Kurds have been > oppressed for centuries. Playing a weak hand, they > have > been involved in all sorts of weird arrangements, > frequently living by smuggling, shifting alliances > unexpectedly. Why can't people sympathize with them > and still be disgusted by particular actions? > > > Chris Doss wrote: > Ha. > > -- > Michael Perelman > Economics Department > California State University > Chico, CA 95929 > > Tel. 530-898-5321 > E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
I'm not surprised. They probably knee-jerk support every little group that screeches "national sovereignity!" Even if India goes down in flames. --- Ulhas Joglekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris Doss wrote: > Ha. > > Do you know Cuba supports "self-determination" by > Kashmiris? > > Ulhas > > > --- Ulhas Joglekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > The Hindu > > > > > > Monday, Jul 26, 2004 > > > > > > Israel pushing for Kurdish state? > > > > > > By Atul Aneja > > > > Yahoo! India Careers: Over 65,000 jobs online > Go to: http://yahoo.naukri.com/ > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Ha. It's only a matter of time now until some of the same people who have been glorifying the Kurds as a long-oppressed victim-race now start vilifying them as tools of imperialism. --- Ulhas Joglekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Hindu > > Monday, Jul 26, 2004 > > Israel pushing for Kurdish state? > > By Atul Aneja > __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Russia -- it never changes!! :)
What year is this? Cossack soldiers arrive in South Ossetia Georgian government detains supposed 'humanitarian aid' from Russia By Nino Kopaleishvili Messenger.ge Wednesday, July 14, 2004, #130 (0654) Cossack military formations help a demonstration of their force inside territory of South Ossetia on Tuesday. The well-equipped fighters, who arrived to South Ossetia following a decision of the Cossack Council, showed their skills and demonstrated weapons in training in territory controlled by the de facto government. A Cossack leader interviewed by Rustavi-2 stated that the fighters had arrived in South Ossetia to help their "brother Ossetians" and this was an official decision as 949 delegates of the Cossack Council voted for it. "Here are our Cossack volunteers who want to take part in this," the Cossack ottoman told a Rustavi 2 journalist. "90 percent of the population of South Ossetia are citizens of the Russian Federation. That is why we are obliged to support our citizens. We represent the voice of Russia. If it is necessary, all Russians will come to help our brothers." While the Cossacks demonstrated their force, Georgian law-enforcers detained cargo trucks escorted by Russian peacekeepers at the Ergneti checkpoint. According to the representative of the President of Georgia in Shida Kartli Micheil Kareli, Russian peacekeepers, who claimed they were carrying flour to Ossetian and mixed villages in Big Liakhvi as a present from President Putin, could not provide any documents that it was humanitarian aid. After 3-hour of negotiations between Georgian customs officers and Russian peacekeepers the Georgian side did not change its position. "Sviatoslav Nabzdorov could not present any evidence that these goods are really humanitarian aid and if these goods are not cleared, we won't allow them to enter the territory of Georgia," Kareli told journalists. Commander of the Russian Peacekeeping Forces Sviatoslav Nabzdorov, who personally escorted the cargo, insisted that it was humanitarian aid and there was an agreement with President Saakashvili. Nabzdorov also reminded journalists that on July 12 a Georgian delegation with an escort of Russian peacekeepers managed to distribute flour to the Big Liakhvi villages. "Yesterday I said that I would bring a present from President Putin. Now we are carrying flour which the president of Georgia allowed us to do three days ago, but your governor probably misunderstood something," stated Nabzdorov before negotiations with the Georgian side. According to Kareli, he did not have any information that President Saakashvili had allowed the cargo to pass. Meanwhile, on June 12 Prime Minister Zurab Zhvania and Defense and Chairman of the Parliamentary Security Committee Givi Targamadze stated that Moscow had dispatched a convoy of some 150 military vehicles transporting artillery, ammunition and 120 troops from North Ossetia to the breakaway Republic of South Ossetia during the night of 11-12 June. President Mikheil Saakashvili denounced the deployment as an "unfriendly act" on Russia's part, while the Georgian Foreign Ministry lodged a protest with its Russian counterpart and appealed to the international community to condemn the Russian deployment on June 13. On Monday the Russian Defense Ministry denied the allegations that troops and arms had been sent to South Ossetia. But according to the website Hellenic Resources Network, Interfax on July 12 quoted a spokesman for the North Caucasus Military District as explaining that a convoy carrying fuel, food, and spare parts was sent to South Ossetia as part of a routine rotation of Russian troops serving with the quadripartite peacekeeping force deployed in the conflict zone. Murad Djioev, foreign minister of the unrecognized Republic of South Ossetia, similarly denied that Russia has sent troops to the region, Interfax reported. He dismissed the Georgian accusations as part of a Georgian propaganda campaign. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Russia/Yukos: "the first renationalization in the country's post-Soviet history"
Like I said. Thursday, July 22, 2004. Page 1. Investors Caught in Yukos Crossfire By Catherine Belton Staff Writer Shocked investors continued to pile out of Yukos stock Wednesday, a day after the government raised the stakes in an increasingly vicious battle with the company's owners by saying it was preparing to tear out the oil firm's biggest production unit and sell it off. Yukos shares plummeted nearly 12 percent to close at $6.00 on the RTS -- a fall of 26 percentage points in just two days. Even normally bullish analysts said minority investors risked being steamrollered in what now seems like an unstoppable fight between the state and Yukos' majority shareholder, Group Menatep. "It looks like Menatep is trying to bring down everything with it, while the government appears to be willing to inflict as much damage as need be," said Eric Kraus, Sovlink's chief equity strategist. "The only innocent victims are going to be international investors." Some market watchers still hoped that the Justice Ministry was bluffing by saying it was preparing to sell off Yukos' 100 percent stake in the Yuganskneftegaz production unit, which produces nearly two-thirds of the oil firm's total output, as payment for a $3.4 billion back tax bill. It could be an attempt, they said, to force Yukos' owners into a deal on the government's terms. But others said the politically charged standoff, which has led to the arrest of Yukos billionaire owners Mikhail Khodorkovsky and Platon Lebedev on charges of fraud and tax evasion, already looked to be snowballing out of control. "This is starting to look like a game of chicken and neither side is swerving," Kraus said. "If this is a bluff, they're bluffing very close to the edge." Investors fear that if the government moves to sell Yukos' stake in Yuganskneftegaz, it could be sold off at a knockdown price to a company close to the Kremlin such as Surgutneftegaz, or sold to state-owned energy companies such as Gazprom or Rosneft, a move that would be tantamount to the first renationalization in the country's post-Soviet history. Already, Yuganskneftegaz is valued at around $30.4 billion by leading consulting firm DeGolyer and MacNaughton, way above the $3.4 billion back tax claim. In a statement issued late Tuesday, Khodorkovsky said the ball was now in the government's court. "My position is unequivocal, to obey court decisions, to seek a compromise with the government that will let Yukos survive," he said in a statement posted on his web site, khodorkovsky.ru. "Further developments, including issues of personnel, depend exclusively on the goodwill of the government." Khodorkovsky has publicly offered to hand over his shares in Yukos to the company as payment for the tax bills. But the government has so far made no public response to that offer and some analysts have said the government may not be able to accept such an offer because in order to sell the shares as payment for the tax bill, it would have to take the risky move of lifting a freeze on Menatep's majority stake in Yukos. Some observers have said Menatep and Khodorkovsky may have been trying to deliberately force the government into taking steps that could damage the investment climate, since -- either locked up in jail or on an Interpol wanted list -- they effectively had nothing to lose. Khodorkovsky's recent standoff with Yukos board chairman Viktor Gerashchenko, in which Khodorkovsky called for his dismissal, could be one example of a "chicken" strategy. On Friday, Gerashchenko fired back at Khodorkovsky by accusing Yukos' majority owners of obstructing a compromise with the government on staving off a breakup or bankruptcy over the $3.4 billion tax bill for 2000. His claim that proposals made by the company on restructuring the debt were not "sincere" could have made it even harder for the government to consider them. But even as Gerashchenko and Khodorkovsky traded blows in public, there was still no official call Wednesday for an extraordinary shareholders meeting to replace Gerashchenko. In another sign he was refusing to bow down, Khodorkovsky remained defiant last Friday as he made his first public statements in court on the fraud and tax charges against him and said the state was making him a scapegoat for its own failings in privatizations. Robert Amsterdam, the Toronto-based lawyer for Menatep, Khodorkovsky and Lebedev, warned on Wednesday that if the government went ahead with a sell-off of Yukos' Yuganskneftegaz stake, it could face a slew of lawsuits in international courts, resulting in possible seizures of Russia's sovereign assets abroad. "Such a sale is illegal," he said by telephone. "Everyone in the world knows what the value of that property is. It's a hold-up in broad daylight." "It would be a clear case under international law of expropriation," he said. "Individual investors would have access to bilateral investment treaties in the event of expropriation, in which sovereign
Re: HDI, GNP and the PPP factor
> > Relative prices in different parts of the world > would > have to be considered to obtain a fair picture of > relative incomes. I can buy a banana for 3 cents in > my > city (Pop. 15 million). How much a banana costs in > New > York? > > Ulhas They are about $1 a kilo in Moscow (not exactly banana-growing country). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: phones and human welfare
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: awhile back, a pen-pal from Bolvia forwarded a message from Chile. There, the home of the first neo-liberal revolution (in 1973) -- the cult of the cell phone had gone so far that some drivers had whittled fake ones out of wood so that they could look as if they were talking on the phone while driving. (They needed the cars, but couldn't afford the phones.) In the US, cell phones are taking over. But text-messaging came after a delay of a few years, compared to Europe. --- I just got out of the (spectacularly non-collapsed) Moscow metro, and the walls of the wagons are virtually coated with ads for cell phone service providers, dating services you access via your mobile phone, numbers you call to set the melody that goes off when it rings (including the Soviet Anthem and the Song of the Young Pioneers). It seems like maybe half of the Russian pop songs out there either allude to cell phones or the Internet, sometimes mixing it up with Soviet imagery (as when, e.g., punk-ska band Leningrad updates the classic Soviet pop song "My Address Is the Soviet Union" with "My address is www.leningradspb.ru"). Speaking of which, something which I find very interesting as a foreigner is the mixture of the old and the new in pop culture. For instance, MTV Russia plays a mix of about 30% foreign and 70% Russian-language music videos, but they have a special program whoch is 100% Russian. The logo is the MTV trademark placed inside the leaves of grain that contained the hammer and sickle in the Soviet seal, over a moving background of cosmonauts and Red Stars. MTV Russia also shows old Soviet cartoons. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: India's HDI Improves, Ranking Doesn't
--- Anthony D'Costa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is hard to estimate but the numbers that float around, are 3-4% of the population, which is not a small number by any means. English has been both a uniting factor (in a national sense) but also one that sets the rural-urban and class divide more forcefully. --- Given that knowledge of English is so low and the absence of a national language (I guess), what is the lingua franca in India? I mean, is there any language that people anywhere in India would be able to communicate in (like Russian in the fSU)? Without that, I imagine it would be very difficult to have a united country. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Cuba: siempre con combate
There are relatively few automobiles in Havana, but when you do see them, they are either American cars from the 1950s or Russian cars from the 1970s or thereabouts. Public transportation includes regular buses, "camel" buses, a few taxi cabs, bicycle cabs...and walking. I'm sure that's a good reason why they're so fit. --- Does Russia still export cars to Cuba? Putin has been trying to reestablish strong ties between the two countries. __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: phones and human welfare
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: it seems to me that cell phones are at best a mixed blessing. (I have one, but I hate it: it rings when I'm driving, so I either have to pull over to talk or drive in a risky way. This morning it interrupted a good song by Townes Van Zandt.) They are only really necessary if the land-line system is broken for some reason. If you see phones as part of some sort of human development index, it would be as "cell phones _plus_ access to land-lines" or something like that. --- Russia practically has a full-fledged cult of the mobile phone. About half the population has one (as opposed to about 5% in 1998). It's a social symbol that says you're part of the middle class, even if you really aren't. People practically organize their lives around those things. There are dating services run through mobile phones in Russia (maybe this is true in the US nowadays too -- I haven't been back there in years). __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Re: HDI 2004\"3rd World"
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: this was a "Western" view under Mercantilism. And it worked for South Korea, didn't it? jim devine --- I think there is still a possibility that Russia will move in a South Korean chaebol-like direction. That seems to have been the original strategy adopted by the Kremlin back in 2000, to transform the oligarchic concerns into state-oriented ones. Events seem to have moved in a different direction since then, though. Maybe the Kremlin has more strength than it expected to have, or (some of) the oligarchs refused to play the game. __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Re: HDI 2004\"3rd World"
--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I imagine Chris Doss finds that his difficulties explaining Putin to others on this list relates to this point - no? And, of course, all of us are caught in terrible conflicting priorities when it comes to events in the Middle East. Paul --- I think that, in the case of Russia, you really have (at least) three elites, the interests are largely in conflict: 1. The so-called "oligarchs," who made their fortunes on crooked deals with the government in the Yeltsin era and still dominate the megabusinesses. Even though the word is losing some of the meeting it had when it was originally coined, back when there were only seven oligarchs. There are about 40 billionaires in Russia today. The oligarchs tend to be very pro-Western, since they have no support base at home (there are exceptions to this -- Abramovich is allegedly close to the Kremlin). 2. Post-"oligarchic" big business, which entered the game after the oligarchs did, is jealous of their wealth and sees the oligarchs' control of the economy as a barrier to their own sucess. 3. The state apparatus, which lives off the two above elites (rent-seeking) and seeks to direct them to its own ends -- strengthening the state's control of the economy and extending its role at home and abroad. They view the oligarchs as simultaneously a threat to their own power, a danger to the power of the country with which they identify, and a real and potential source of enormous rents. Currently, I think you have, roughly speaking, an alliance of groups 2 and 3 against 1. There are numerous indications that the state is going to either renationalize oligarchic capital (read: re-Sovietize the commanding heights of the economy) or divvy that capital up to loyal members of group 2, or some combination of the two. That is what the Yukos affair is all about, IMO, and we will see which strategy teh Kremlin is taking very very soon, as the process is reaching its denouement. This is all complicated further because capitalism is still something of a novelty, and the worldviews of the players involved were all formed in the Soviet era. As near as I can tell, Putin considers the market economy as something that should serve the state -- capital is a handmaiden of the state, not vice versa. Business exists in order to fill the federal treasury. This is a very non-Western view, and I think it has a lot to do with Putin being in his late 30s when the USSR collapsed. Putin is not a product of a capitalist society. As far as I can tell, Putin sees himself as having been called to save his country, and he is doing it exactly the way you would expect a patriotic KGB-man to. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Human Development Index 2004
"Third World" is not a useful category. Ulhas --- Thank you! That is so true. It seems to be a synonym for "poorer than the West." (Except that Saudi Arabia is usually called a third-world country, even though the average Saudi private residence is five times the size of one in Western Europe). If Russia is a "third-world" country, then it is one that exports high-tech weapons, has builds cruise missiles, sends people regularly into space (the only country to be doing so at present), and in which half of the population owns a mobile telephone. And about half own their own apartments. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Human Development Index 2004
--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there any common cause with any of today's 3rd world economic\political elite (Malaysians? Brazilians? Koreans? Russians? Vietnamese?)? --- Russia is not a 3rd world country. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: Chechnya & Capitalism
I wrote, referring to Chechen nutball ideologist Nukhayev: "Read the book!" As it turns out, however, unless you read Russian, you can't. Klebnikov's book Razgovor s varvorom, his interviews with Nukhayev, has not been translated into English. Therefore probably not available on Lexis-Nexis either. Why am I not surprised. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: Russian econ growth
Woosh! It's boom time! RUSSIAN POPULATION: INCOMES GROW 9.8 PERCENT MOSCOW, July 21 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian population's real incomes (those minus mandatory payments, adjusted to the index of consumer prices) have gone up over the past six months by 9.8 percent in comparison with the same period last year, reports the federal statistics service. The real incomes went up in June 2004 in comparison with the corresponding period last year by 10.7 percent, in the second quarter by 7.2 percent. The average wage this June, according to preliminary data, stands at 6,980 rubles ($1 equals 29 rubles) to increase by 25 percent in comparison with June 2003. In May 2004, the average wage for employees in health services, physical training and social maintenance made 64 percent of its level in the industry, education, culture and art-57 percent each. In May 2003, these figures were correspondingly 59%, 54% and 56%. The share of the losing enterprises in January-May 2004, in comparison with the same period in 2003, diminished by 2.1 percent to comprise 41.3 percent. There is evidence that the balance financial result (profits minus losses) of organizations (without entities in agriculture, small business, banks, insurance and budget) in January-May 2004, is positive. Thus, the surplus of the receipts over the losses amounted to 795.8 billion rubles ($27.7 billion): 43,600 companies gained profits to the tune of 906.6 billion rubles and 30,700 companies accounted for the losses worth 110.8 billion rubles. In January-May, 2003, the balance financial result was also positive and stood at 532.6 billion rubles ($17 billion) with the comparable circle of organizations. Russia's foreign trade turnover, according to the methods of the balance of payments in April-May 2004, (actually in current prices) was worth $99,267 million, which is up from the figures of the corresponding period in 2003 by 24.7 percent. The export then amounted to $64.851 million while the import to $34.416. In comparison with the corresponding period of 2003, they have grown by 25.4 percent and 23.4 percent. Russia's foreign trade balance according to the methods of the balance of payments in May 2004 (in actually operating prices) made $20,800 million (603.3 billion rubles), having surpassed the figures of the same period in 2003 by 27.4 percent and gone down in comparison with April by 5.3 percent. The incorporated export comprised $13.4 billion (387.5 billion rubles) and the import was $7.4 billion (215.8 billion rubles). This compared to the figures of May 2003 and April 2004, the export in May grew by 27.9 percent and shrunk by 5.8 percent while the import soared 26.4 percent and dropped 4.3 percent. The foreign trade balance (difference between export and import) made $5,926 million for May, 2004 and $30,435 million for May-January, 2004. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation
CB: What's the difference between what you said and what I said ? I believe you state the rule of non-contradiction, which is what I am referring to. --- I thought you were implying that Marx and Hegel denied the RoNC. Maybe I misread you. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
indeed i read about this, and it only adds to my doubt. i am not very knowledgeable about iraq but is it not possible that the thugs who will rush in to fill the void left by a suddenly departed US army, would be worse? i remember reading pieces about east timor, rwanda, and elsewhere, of the horrors that ensued when any provisional authority pulled out (in those cases these authorities were a bit more legitimate, such as the UN). isnt it important not to forget that their thugs are as bad as ours? only, we can try to control our thugs but they cannot control theirs or ours. --ravi --- I personally have no real opinion on this subject, since I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on what's happening in Iraq, but over in this part of the world the powers-that-be are very worried that Iraq is going to wind up as a fundamentalist state sitting on huge amounts of oil reserves that would try to further destabilize Central Asia, which would be really bad. (Then again, a fundamentalist state dependent on Iran might even be a good thing for the Kremlin, since relations between Moscow and Tehran are pretty close and Russia views Iran as a moderating influence in the Muslim world. One of the first things Putin did after he became president was to invite Khattami to the opening of a new mosque in Tatarstan.) __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Whoops!
Sorry -- I meant to send that Kurds thing somewhere else. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Iraq: Kurdish Leader Warns Karkuk's Attacks Might Get Situation Out of Control
Iraq: Kurdish Leader Warns Karkuk's Attacks Might Get Situation Out of Control London Al-Sharq al-Awsat in Arabic 10 Jul 04 p2 [Report by Shirzad Shaykhani in Al-Sulaymaniyah: "Prominent Kurdish Leader: We Do Not Have a Plan To Fight a Civil War in Karkuk, But What Is Happening Might Get Out of Our Control"] A prominent Kurdish leader has expressed his fears that the recent security incidents in Karkuk, which saw the increased assassination of Kurdish officials and the targeting of their motorcades by unidentified elements, could lead to a wave of violence and counter violence that Kurdish leaders do not wish to happen and drag the city's population into bloody confrontations with dire consequences. The Kurdish official, who asked to remain unidentified, made the statement in response to an "Al-Sharq al-Awsat" question about the series of assassinations targeting the Kurdish officials in the city's governmental departments. He stressed that the Kurdish leaders have no plans to fight a civil war with the other nationalities living in Karkuk but cited the statement of UN Envoy to Iraq Lakhdar Brahimi when he said: "The civil war will not be declared from above but might be caused by the lower bases." The Kurdish official added: "We do not wish to destroy the country that we had in the past worked to restore its cohesion and strengthen the ties of its unity by conceding many of our rights. But there are actions and moves by elements in the other parties' bases that could drag our bases into retaliating. We are afraid that things might get out of our control as Kurdish leaders and dire consequences to ensue." He went on to say: "We sacrificed hundreds of thousands when we confronted the ruling dictatorship as a result of the genocide operations, mass displacement, and chemical bombardment. We have no specific plans to react to these provocations. But think what will happen if the Kurds in the city reacted to these reckless actions and the violent reactions get out of our control? We cannot guarantee that we will be able to control the Kurds in such a case." Another official accused regional parties of encouraging the terrorist operations targeting the Kurds in Karkuk in an attempt to disrupt the situation and create chaos in the city whose sons want to live in peace with each other. He added that some Turkish leaders' statements -- which are seen as a blatant interference in Iraq's national affairs --- are encouraging some people to incite racial sectarianism in the city. He then stressed that the Iraqis in general and the sons of Karkuk in particular are capable of coexisting fraternally and rebuilding their country on the basis of accord and mutual understanding if some foreign parties stop their interference and support for the anarchist elements. He added: There is no difference between this and that person whatever his ethnic or doctrinal affiliation is, especially as we are about to build a new Iraq on the ruins of the obnoxious dictatorship. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation
I mentioned Plato: Technically, this is false. In logic, ever since Plato, the rule has been that something cannot both be and not be in the same way at the same time. --- Plato, of course, is where the conceot of dialectics got started in the first place. Does anybody know of Marx ever discusses the Platonic origin of the concept/term, or if he just restricts himself to Hegel? Man, this is making me wish I'd finished my dissertation and gotten the Ph.D. in phil I was aiming for before I moved to Russia. I haven't thought about this stuff in ages. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation
For formal logic , arriving at a contradiction means there is a mistake, something is false. -- Technically, this is false. In logic, ever since Plato, the rule has been that something cannot both be and not be in the same way at the same time. Dialectics in Hegel and Marx do not deny this; they are more interested in seeing how different trends within a single phenomenon cause it to break apart. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation
Grammar, logic and math are systems of ordered symbols. -- Me: Not to the Greeks, or to Hegel. They are "objectively" real. That's why the Greeks never evolved the concepts of negative numbers or zero; how can you talk about zero of something? It's absurd. In one late work of Greek mathematics I studied in grad school (I can't remember the author), the writer, who is working up something like algebra, expressly rules out answers in which you will get a negative number, because they are "impossible" answers. -- "The word" was important at the "beginning" of the human species, because language was important. Perhaps the Gospel reflects this fact. -- Heidegger, in his many, many exegesis of ancient philosophy, says that the greek word for "to speak," legein, which is what logos is derived from (or vice versa -- I don't know), comes from the word for "to tie together," because what you are doing is finding different things in the world, tieing them together so to speak in a meaningful whole in a sentence, and then expressing them. God knows I'm not a Greek philologist and don't know if this is true or not. In any case by the time it made it to the Gospels "logos" had several centuries of use as a technical philosophical term, especially in the Stoics, who remember were the biggest philosophical school in the Roman Empire (and were famous for their system of logic too. :) ) It's very important to the neo-Platonists too. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
