Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency-Oriented Programming in Pharo
For me, SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString ...works best. If you run this twice, the second time it prints the diff compared to the previous run. So if you print the following three lines SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString. self runSomeCode. SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString you'll get the number and time of full and incremental GC cycles while running your code (of course there may have been other processes active in between which may affect the results). It's also a good idea to force a full GC before. Adrian On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:57 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Andrew P. Black bl...@cs.pdx.edu wrote: On 17 Aug 2011, at 14:24 , Igor Stasenko wrote: yes.. except one thing: since contexts are allocated on heap, it means more work for GC, then it explains that it degrading linearly. Andrew, can you play with GC parameters, like increase number of allocations between incremental GCs etc? How do I do that? Check method category vm parameters in SmalltalkImage. Is there a gc monitor, that will show me how much time the gc is taking, or how many times the incremental gc is running? Yes, open System - Vm statistics Andrew -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs
Yes, the issues Andrea reported are all from 1.2.2. That's the version we are currently using besides 1.1.2. Unfortunately, its not an option for us to move to new versions of Pharo too frequently. New Pharo versions can have unforeseen effects in production and hence can cause a lot of work for us and pain for our users (just an example is the semantic change of StringasNumber). On the other hand, we are working 8 hours a day with Pharo and hence a good IDE is very important. If things like the debugger do not reliably work, this is not fun. Are other people just living with the issues? Are there any patches that could be backported? Cheers, Adrian On Aug 23, 2011, at 10:54 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: These issues are for 1.2.2. Who is maintaining it by the way? Pharo 1.4 presents a significant number of improvements over Pharo 1.3. Whereas I found Pharo 1.3 almost unusable, I am quite happy with 1.4 Cheers, Alexandre On 23 Aug 2011, at 08:54, Andrea Brühlmann wrote: Hello, I reported some bugs on the issue tracker and hope you can help me with them! 4681: Accepting with the enter key does not work http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4681 4682: Code completion makes strange cursor placements and too many spaces http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4682 4683: Code completion breaks some search fields (errors during typing) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4683 4684: Missing ctrl+w (methodNamesContainingIt:) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4684 4685: Merge dialog: cannot resolve conflict with removed method http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4685 4686: Method category change creates no new version http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4686 4687: Errors during coding (MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of morph is nil) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4687 4688: Progress bar disappears on image save http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4688 4689: MessageTally bug http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4689 4690: Progress bar position http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4690 4691: Bad line breaks in code until window is resized (because of bold text?) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4691 4692: Drop downs should select the default entry (topmost) instead of a middle one http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4692 4693: Line breaks in tooltips are wrong http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4693 4694: Debugger: stepping over an error can not open a new debugger until I hit cmd+. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4694 4695: Time asString prints nanos unrounded http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4695 -- Andrea Brühlmann -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs
Mike, Thanks for the initiative and the update on this issue! I hope other people have insights or can lend a helping hand... Adrian On Aug 23, 2011, at 14:25 , Michael Roberts wrote: I think for the debugger, we all live with the bugs. I mean, we (I) unfortunately made the situation worse with the introduction of the closures around 1.0/1.1 and it has never been fixed. It is hard to fix too, this stuff is not simple. I contacted a few people quietly maybe a year ago to see if we all lived with it, because a few times i posted about the debugger and there was not a lot of response. I wondered if no one *actually* programmed in pharo. but no, we become masters of interpreting the debugger highlight... What can we do- 1) I have contacted Eliot (again). Historically he said it was fixed (or better) in teleplace images but I need him to send us any patches. He has also been helpful and highlighted the areas that need work like the decompiler and how we could write some tests to protect against unintended change 2) I have checked a recent Squeak, and it is bust there too. 3) I am writing some test cases. So that we can regression test the debugger highlighting, and building an analyser class (@esug) to make it easier to dig into the debugger. 4) carefully check Squeak class versions for merging changes into Pharo. this is not easy. 5) We have to rebuild the debugger model based on the new compiler / decompiler machinery. (This is a long term Pharo goal) I am just chipping away at the analysis, and i will share my code when i have something on the tracker. Also would be great in a separate thread if someone could explain to me the simulation guard primitive. i.e you can not step over process creation, but you can halt after it e.g. cheers, Mike
Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images
Thanks, Marcus! On Aug 9, 2011, at 08:41 , Marcus Denker wrote: [...] Next steps: [...] - change the links on pharo-project to point to these images for http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core Done. - change the link http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable(-core) to point to the one jenkins build of 1.4 I changed /unstable-core to point to https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-1.4.zip I assume there is no /unstable build (yet)? - add a page or 1.3 on pharo-project.org I added a place holder with a link to the Wiki page http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-3 It would be nice if we could move the text over and revise it a bit. Any taker? - clean up a bit, no need to have pages for old .1 release. On pharo-project.org? Once we have the one-click image, we also need to update the download banner and the links on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images
On Aug 9, 2011, at 10:48 , Marcus Denker wrote: Thanks! - change the link http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable(-core) to point to the one jenkins build of 1.4 I changed /unstable-core to point to https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-1.4.zip I assume there is no /unstable build (yet)? For 1.4, we want to not have multiple images anymore... this is really difficult to fix bugs in two images, it's hard to explain, Right, that's what I remembered too (there fore the yet ;). My question was more regarding what we do with those links since there probably are scripts that use the /unstable-core and /unstable URLs. For now I made both point to .../lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-1.4.zip. - clean up a bit, no need to have pages for old .1 release. On pharo-project.org? yes... the page for 1.1.1 we should merge into the page for 1.1 (just to make it look cleaner) I would keep the old release pages for historic reasons, but move them out of the Download menu. We could add a page named Previous releases and link these pages from there. Then under Download in the menu, we only keep the most recent version. Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images
Sure. I'll mail the Photoshop file to you privately. Adrian On Aug 9, 2011, at 13:12 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: adrian do you have the banner file formats so that we store them on svn? Stef On Aug 9, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: Thanks, Marcus! On Aug 9, 2011, at 08:41 , Marcus Denker wrote: [...] Next steps: [...] - change the links on pharo-project to point to these images for http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core Done. - change the link http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable(-core) to point to the one jenkins build of 1.4 I changed /unstable-core to point to https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-1.4.zip I assume there is no /unstable build (yet)? - add a page or 1.3 on pharo-project.org I added a place holder with a link to the Wiki page http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-3 It would be nice if we could move the text over and revise it a bit. Any taker? - clean up a bit, no need to have pages for old .1 release. On pharo-project.org? Once we have the one-click image, we also need to update the download banner and the links on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] who is in charge of the web pages?
Great! In autumn, I'm going to be away (traveling, and hence I'm probably not online very often). It's good to know that somebody is taking care of the website. Laurent, I've added privileges to your account so you have access to all content and features and you can also add/remove user logins. Adrian On Jul 29, 2011, at 16:59 , laurent laffont wrote: I can do it Laurent. On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I would like to be sure that we have a fuse or two when adrian is busy or in vacation. Who is in charge of the web page because johannes sent me a better picture and I would like to put it on the contributors list. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Silly Tweet
On Jun 30, 2011, at 10:15 , Marcus Denker wrote: On Jun 30, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote: Why do people still use an older image? Even as older as Pharo1.1 and 1.2. It doesn't take much to update to Pharo1.3 or Pharo1.4, and its totally worth the nuisance of updating a couple of classes references and uses, because of the many many many improvements that get integrated ( thanks for Marcus and Stef for the continuos improvements integration and fixes) In a commercial setting, things are different... people need to really think hard to move to a new system. Time is money, bugs are expensive, there is always a deadline more important... Exactly. When you have systems of the size 1000 classes that have been grown over years and have to work reliably, just updating a couple of classes [sic] references and uses is not easy. First of all, you have to figure out *what* to change. Changes like a modified Dictionary/Set hierarchy can subtly break your code (leading to data corruption in our case [1]). Or, just because you are one of the first to use the new code under high load, you see problems others haven't seen before (leading to unresponsive images in our case [2]). Those are obvious external bugs, but we also ran into issues with our code just not being compatible anymore with new semantics (e.g., Number class#readFrom:). That's why in a non-trivial setup, upgrading is costly, and at times painful (in particular when you missed problems in testing and then experience them in production). [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3658 [2] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3498 Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Please test Pharo 1.3!
Nice to see 1.3 coming forward! I don't have thorough test results from real experience using 1.3, but just some remarks from randomly testing the tools for 20 or so minutes: - Script Manager is broken: adding a script produces an error - Transcript: I do Transcript show: 'hello' but nothing happens. Strange... So I click on the icons in the bottom bar, noting happens either. So I click in the main pane and get an error (errorSubscriptBounds:). Not sure how the new Transcript is supposed to be used... - Undo with cmd-shift-z doesnt work anymore (und from the context menu works, however) Minor stuff I noticed: - In world menu, class browser doesn't have an icon - MC browser and some other tools have buttons with a blue top shade, while other tools don't - Recent submissions has syntax highlighting enabled for class comments - The top right scroll pane of the Test Runner is too high - The bottom pane with the buttons of the Test Runner is too high Since I haven't worked with 1.3 yet, I can't tell about all the cool new stuff and cleanups yet. (Except for the Time Profiler I tried out, which is very cool!) HTH, Adrian On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:14 , Janko Mivšek wrote: Hi Marcus, Aida works ok. One suggestion: put version number somewhere near Pharo logo in main window. Otherwise is pretty hard to recognize on which image version you are working. Or maybe introducing Help - About in world menu? Or both... Thanks and best regards Janko S, Marcus Denker piše: Please test Pharo 1.3! There is no magic.. what is now here: https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/job/Pharo%201.3/ Will be the release. Issues fixed until the released are just those that will be detected and fixed. There is no magic. For those who only run released software: Version Number is 1.3. Consider this released. There will be no RC. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. -- Janko Mivšek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565
Re: [Pharo-project] Merge tool. No way to cherry pick the changes?
I'm missing that too. In previous versions, IIRC, there was a menu item for changed methods named Install. Adrian On Jun 21, 2011, at 14:37 , Igor Stasenko wrote: I don't understand, when i merging, the merge tool showing me all the difference between current version and incoming one. It says '0 conflicts' and its ok to merge, but what if i want to choose to keep an old version for some methods, while merge the rest? What i see that there is no way to do that .. all menu items which would allow me to do that, like 'keep current version' 'use incoming verison' 'mark as conflict' are disabled. Which means that once machine decided that there is no conflict, you cannot do much. I tried to quickly hack the UI and enable those menu items , but it doesn't works, because the model itself seems like don't supports that. So, the question is how we can change that? As to me, it is certainly a missing feature, if i cannot freely choose between current and incoming version at my will, when merging. Gary ( all)? Any ideas? -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Re: [Pharo-project] support for flattening-out traits for export?
IIRC this can be achieved with two small changes: - Comment out the line method isLocalSelector from PackageInfomethods. This will flatten the traits into the classes, i.e., make all methods of a class being stored even if they come from a trait. - In addition you probably need to change PackageInfoclasses to filter out all traits (like ... reject: #isTrait). HTH, Adrian On Jun 7, 2011, at 08:11 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:47 AM, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.comwrote: Hi All, if I want to export a package (Fuel!!) to a dialect without traits is there anything to help me remove the trait info and just file-out the composed code? Hi Eliot. Traits are only used in Fuel for testing. And really used for testing methods for classes and traits (not the basic methods). So, of course, you can directly fileout the Fuel package only without traits. One of the things I always wanted is what you are really asking, a way to fileout forgetting traits, just letting those methods directly in the classes. But I have no idea if that's possible. Finally, I was never really convinced about the Traits usage in Fuel. Mostly because some tools seem not to be happy with them...We should check how much difficult and what we loose removing them now Cheers -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] excellent job: netstylers :)
thanks :) On May 31, 2011, at 14:39 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote: yeah... really cool :) El 31/05/2011, a las 2:36a.m., Stéphane Ducasse escribió: http://www.cmsbox.com/en/showcase/our-websites Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Tiling windows
I like it :) Adrian On May 24, 2011, at 22:25 , laurent laffont wrote: On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Ok we need a 1.3 version because now we get excited. Here's a first shot (not integrated to TaskBarMorph though) which works in 1.3: Gofer it squeaksource: 'TilingWindowManager'; package: 'TWM'; load. TWMBar new open. The real manager is TilingWM. Try: (TilingWM forWorld: World) tileVisibleWindows. (TilingWM forWorld: World) tileBrowsers. (TilingWM forWorld: World) tileWorkspaces. Laurent. Stef On May 24, 2011, at 8:51 AM, laurent laffont wrote: 2011/5/24 Gastón Dall' Oglio gaston.dallog...@gmail.com Laurent and corious :) I add some TasklistMorph behavior. With the open list (cmd-rigth or cmd-left): * cmd-up: maximize all windows * cmd-down: minimize all windows * cmd-b: apply SystemBrowser windows's filter * cmd-w: apply Worspace windows's filter * cmd-a: remove windows's filter ** The cmd-b work in 1.2.1, in 1.3 you have to change TasklistMorphkeyStroke: because I use OBSystemBrowser class by way of example and therefore does not perform properly filtered. I did not understand until I enable the setting Keep task list open :) I've started a TilingWindowManager project (I will upload it this evening on SS) so we can put all our stuff + tests without polluting TaskBar Tasklist too much. Indeed, after 3 days I can't live without the tiling buttons :) Laurent. 2011/5/23 laurent laffont laurent.laff...@gmail.com 2011/5/23 Gastón Dall' Oglio gaston.dallog...@gmail.com Laurent, I attached a package I've added some improvements to your work, I have found useful. Of course I am not knowledgeable about morph, just added some and perhaps can serve as inspiration. Thanks Gastón, I like the idea. It will be a good step forward in having better window management. Now we should rewrite this clean + tests (may be adding the notion of widgets like in KDE / Gnome). As windows fill all the space, would be good to have a button to open the world menu. I would love having the possibility of splitting the World + back and forward configuration like Emacs winner mode, keyboard driven. Since several days I use http://most-advantageous.com/optimal-layout/ on OSX and there's some great ideas too. Laurent. 2011/5/23 laurent laffont laurent.laff...@gmail.com On 1.2: Gofer it squeaksource: 'LaurentLSandbox'; version: 'Polymorph-Widgets-LaurentLaffont.388'; load. Then open or move a window so the TaskBar is updated and you have a new magic button on bottom left. (note this is hacky actually, I will write a nicer version this week if people like it). Laurent. On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: send a cs that we can play with it :) On May 22, 2011, at 8:25 PM, laurent laffont wrote: Hi, what do you think of adding this in Pharo ? |taskbar tileWindowsBlock| tileWindowsBlock := [ |windows numberOfColumns numberOfRows windowWidth windowHeight| windows := (World submorphs select: [:m| m isSystemWindow and: [m isNotMinimized]]) asOrderedCollection. numberOfColumns := windows size sqrtFloor. numberOfRows := (windows size / numberOfColumns) rounded. windowWidth := World width // numberOfColumns.. windowHeight := World height - taskbar height // numberOfRows. Matrix rows: numberOfRows columns: numberOfColumns tabulate: [:row :column| |window| windows ifNotEmpty: [ window := windows remove: windows first. window bounds: ( ((column - 1 * windowWidth) @ (row - 1 * windowHeight)) extent: (windowWidth) @ windowHeight) ] ] ]. taskbar := (World submorphs detect: [:m| m isTaskbar]). taskbar addMorph: (IconicButton new target: tileWindowsBlock; actionSelector: #value; labelGraphic: taskbar theme smallWindowIcon; color: Color transparent; yourself). Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st
Re: [Pharo-project] Memory profiling
Hi Alex, I assume that your test run always creates the same number objects with the same size. Given that, there doesn't appear to be any reason why the amount of allocated memory for the given run should vary. So its rather the way you measure that makes the difference. I don't know how you get your profiles, but if you use the VM GC stats, they are global and hence other processes may influence the outcome. Incremental GC is triggered depending on allocation count. There's a r/w VM param to configure this. So iGC is rather a crude way to measure memory usage as it doesn't consider object size (and it is a global counter)... As a solution I suggest to take a look at my DTrace provider for the Squeak/Pharo VM [1]. It allows you to take statistics on questions like: how many instances of which size and of which class were created by which process in which methods? In the blog post I give an example that illustrates the use of DTrace for exactly such a question. HTH, Adrian [1] http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/blog?dialog=smalltak-meets-dtrace On Apr 24, 2011, at 05:32 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: Hi! I have been working on a memory profiler for Pharo. People who attended Smalltalks'10 may remember Mariano Coca's presentation. Unfortunately, I am not satisfied with what we can obtain from the execution of a piece of code in Pharo. The amount of memory consumed by a method _significantly varies_ across execution. I have the impression that memory consumption is a less stable metric than execution time. For example, I used this as a benchmark: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 7 timesRepeat: [ 5 timesRepeat: [ Smalltalk garbageCollect]. MemoryProfiler viewProfiling: [ 20 timesRepeat: [| view | 5 timesRepeat: [ Smalltalk garbageCollect]. Object new. Object new. 5 timesRepeat: [ Smalltalk garbageCollect]. view := MOViewRenderer new. view nodes: (1 to: 5000). view root applyLayout] ] inPackagesMatching: 'Mondrian-*' ] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= It opens a simple visualization in Mondrian. I tried to clean as much as I can before executing the code with multiple garbage collect. This piece of code return 7 profiles. In a profile I have for the method MOBoundedShapeheightFor: : Number of Young Allocated Bytes: 42,879,008 bytes Number of Old Allocated Bytes: 6,000,660 bytes Total Allocated Bytes: 48,879,668 bytes Number of Increased Memory Bytes: 0 bytes Number of Incremental GC's: 1,415 Number of Full GC's: 0 Number of Tenures of Surving Objects: 164 In another profile I have: Number of Young Allocated Bytes: -7,857,156 bytes Number of Old Allocated Bytes: 6,008,872 bytes Total Allocated Bytes: -1,848,284 bytes Number of Increased Memory Bytes: 0 bytes Number of Incremental GC's: 1,373 Number of Full GC's: 0 Number of Tenures of Surving Objects: 165 In another: Number of Young Allocated Bytes: -11,956,720 bytes Number of Old Allocated Bytes: 5,315,216 bytes Total Allocated Bytes: -6,641,504 bytes Number of Increased Memory Bytes: 0 bytes Number of Incremental GC's: 1,354 Number of Full GC's: 0 Number of Tenures of Surving Objects: 145 And another: Number of Young Allocated Bytes: 59,132,472 bytes Number of Old Allocated Bytes: 6,177,772 bytes Total Allocated Bytes: 65,310,244 bytes Number of Increased Memory Bytes: 0 bytes Number of Incremental GC's: 1,361 Number of Full GC's: 0 Number of Tenures of Surving Objects: 167 The metric Number of Young Allocated Bytes, Number of Old Allocated Bytes, Total Allocated Bytes are highly unpredictable: i.e., two profiles are likely to be completely different. I am not sure why is this so. I use the standard Pharo1.2 One click, without additional parameter to the VM. Do you think that other platforms and languages behave the same? However, the positive point is that it seems that the amount of incremental GC and the number of tenured objects may play an important role in estimating the memory consumption. These metrics are much more stable. What do you think on this? Does it make sense to say that more a method triggers incremental GC, more it consumes memory? What exactly triggers an incremental GC? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] About (nil@nil)
On Apr 21, 2011, at 19:32 , Igor Stasenko wrote: On 21 April 2011 18:42, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: of course it is there newArray at: 34 put: Point new. now could not we have a well initialized point? What is the purpose of this one? probably there was a primitives which doing fast Point allocaiton, and for this it takes an existing point instance as a prototype. I don't know if this slot are used by something .. It doesn't seem so. I (quickly) checked the VM sources and couldn't find an access to this array slot... Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Are you a Pharo contributor ??? [WAS] Re: Pharo Open Source Smalltalk — Contributors
I think the most important thing is to make all pictures the same width and height. Then I wouldn't do a table, but rather add filters. For instance, this would allow the visitor to filter for people by country and possibly other properties (like university, industry, ...). Another improvement would be to print the names as a heading (they are just normal text now). If somebody likes to help with this, pls contact me. Adrian On Apr 14, 2011, at 16:42 , laurent laffont wrote: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Serge Stinckwich serge.stinckw...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's a great idea to have a picture and short description. Maybe we could have something more uniform with the same size for each picture ? Yes sure, and maybe put a kind of table were each of us is a row, and all data is one column and the picture is another one. So they are aligned. We should just adapt the CSS. I don't know how to modify it in CMSBox. Laurent But first the first :) Get the contributors and then we take care about the make up ehehe Laurent may be able to take care about the makeup ? Cheers Mariano Regards, On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com wrote: if true...then what are you wainting for? http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors Send you data and nice picture :) Seriously, it is important for marketing among other things. Imagine you arrive to a new project...it is good to see that there are several contributing to it. Probably this page is not the best, but is something more. Mariano On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:18 PM, laurent laffont laurent.laff...@gmail.com wrote: Added ! Laurent. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Juan Vuletich j...@jvuletich.org wrote: Hi Laurent, I'd like to be added to http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors . My picture is attached. Description text could be Contributed the default anti-aliased fonts and the SimpleMorphic UI framework. Web page at www.jvuletich.org. Thank you. Cheers, Juan Vuletich -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/ -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] FAQ migration
On Apr 10, 2011, at 13:16 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: Thanks Max, I am reading it now :) For those who doesn't know the link: http://book.pharo-project.org/book/FAQ/ Hm, this page is pretty empty... Adrian BTW, there's another FAQ, which I had written over some time: http://www.pharo-project.org/documentation/faq. Does it make sense to keep both (a technical and a non-technical FAQ)? Or should we merge this one also into the book?
Re: [Pharo-project] Download choices :) or :(?
On Apr 11, 2011, at 04:43 , Serge Stinckwich wrote: There should be i guess just one download page. On the first page, there is some downloads links in the three columns. If you look at the python language website, there is only one download page, the same for Ruby. Yep! Adrian take care of the website if i remember. I know from experience this a really boring task. If we want to scale to a small team of volunteers, what could be done to simplify the modification of pages ? I know that the website currently used is based on Cmsbox and this is great showcase for PharoSmalltalk, but maybe an automatically generated html website with the help of tools like webgen or something similar with the pages on a git repository somewhere could help the management. I don't think we have a tool issue here. We already have several people that help with managing the website and that works pretty well. I think the confusion about what to download can be addressed by providing less options. Maybe we just have too many of them... The initial idea was that in particular newcomers would just download the one-click image. In the meantime we got a one-click image with and without COG. Then people asked for direct shortcuts on the home page for the stable core, the unstable core, and the stable full image. Of course this makes everything very complicated for people who don't know what they want/need. So we should think again about what images we want to provide for download and how to link them. Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] fonts on Pharo website
hehe, I wondered how long it takes to notice the new fonts ;) We can revert to the old font if the web font is not an improvement... Geert also noted that the font we embedded does not look the same on all browsers/platforms. Cheers, Adrian On Apr 11, 2011, at 13:47 , laurent laffont wrote: Hi, For me the new fonts used on www.pharo-project.org are hard to read. The rendering on Firefox / Windows is not nice too. What do you think ? Laurent Laffont
[Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo Release 1.2.1
The Pharo Project is proud to announce the release of Pharo 1.2.1, the third major release of this clean, innovative, open-source Smalltalk environment. Static URL for this ANN: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-2-1 French translation: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Pharo12FrenchAnnouncement * Update #12345 On Tuesday, March 29th 2011, update #12345 was issued to Pharo's 1.2 development line, a line that started back in June 2010 and was frozen in January 2011. Next, Pharo's continuous integration machinery successfully started building various artifacts based on this 'Pharo Core 1.2', the most important one being 'Pharo 1.2' proper, the full featured development image. Pharo Core 1.2.1 passes 7.836 unit tests, Pharo 1.2.1 no less than 10.760. A large, international community of developers worked hard for several months to iron out all problems and to make Pharo compatible with various Smalltalk libraries and frameworks, among them Seaside 3.0.3 which passes its 1.599 tests. * Pharo Core Changes True to the Pharo philosophy, this release contains numerous small changes, refactorings, cleanups and bugfixes improving the overall quality. Important changes include: – Cleaned the Pluggable hierarchy – Added new undo framework – Cleaned Morph and PasteUpMorph – Added DummyUIManager, a UIManager for operating without a UI – Added NewTextMorph – Removed left overs from MVC: PopUpMenu, SelectionMenu and CustomMenu – Cleaned Utilities, Preferences and TheWorldMenu – Included SimpleMorphic preview – Removing empty classes – Added new TextEditor and SmalltalkEditor – Added new, clean and simple Glamorous, Glamorous Orange GUI Themes – Added new Pro GUI Theme – Added Cog compliant behavior – Added better blocks debugging – Better support for separating SmalltalkImage and SystemDictionary – Fixed package dependencies, providing a good platform for kernel images – Removed old JIT experiments – Migrated to MethodReferenceWithSource and friends – Added more pages under the Help system – Improved the number of commented classes – New Finder tool (replacing Messages Names and Method Finder) – New Recent Changes tool (replacing Recent Submissions) – Improved SpaceTally – Fixed pointer finders tools – Integrated SUnit 4 Started Continuous Integration: use Hudson/Jenkins to automatically build images, run tests, and compile VMs For the Core 1.2 Image development line, 693 issues were resolved. * Pharo Changes The full featured Pharo development image is built automatically by loading the Metacello configuration aptly called ConfigurationOfPharo. Important changes include: – Updated to latest Metacello and all configurations used to use symbolic versions – New tools: Metacello Configuration Browser, Memory Monitor, and Autotest – Updated versions of Shout, RoelTyper, OCompletion, OmniBrowser, AutomaticMethodCategorizer, RefactoringBrowsers, Nile, ProfStef – Added XML-Support, and more Help – Removed NewInspector For the Full Dev 1.2 Image development line, 57 issues were resolved. * Downloads: see http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download * Success Stories Pharo has a large user base spread all over the world. Hence there is a growing collection of success stories (www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories), projects using Pharo that choose to go public with this. Recently, the following were added: DrGeo - an award winning interactive geometry application also used for teaching primary and secondary level students Issys Tracking - a workflow platform to support authorization procedures for the medical practice for a large social organization/health insurance in Argentina Inceptive's Custom ERP - an application for the event planning and resource management administration of a large cultural centre in Flanders __ www.adrian-lienhard.ch twitter.com/adrianlienhard
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
On Apr 5, 2011, at 22:27 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: As far as I see there's one thing missing on the website: the download sticker for the one click image (top right on the page) still points to 1.1.1. I'll try to change the sticker and link tomorrow morning. The new sticker is online. I've linked to the non-COG one-click image. Is that what we want? I've also updated the one-click image links on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download So, as far as I can tell, the website is ready. Cheers Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
Thanks for checking, Mariano. I fixed it. Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 10:09 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: I think this part is wrong (see screenshot) On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Adrian Lienhard a...@netstyle.ch wrote: On Apr 5, 2011, at 22:27 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: As far as I see there's one thing missing on the website: the download sticker for the one click image (top right on the page) still points to 1.1.1. I'll try to change the sticker and link tomorrow morning. The new sticker is online. I've linked to the non-COG one-click image. Is that what we want? I've also updated the one-click image links on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download So, as far as I can tell, the website is ready. Cheers Adrian -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com Screen shot 2011-04-06 at 10.08.49 AM.png
Re: [Pharo-project] Links section for url shortcuts in the Pharo website
Hi Mariano They are right there, on the front page. I recently moved them up so they even show without scrolling. Cheers, Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 15:03 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: Hi Adrian. Lots of times I found myself trying to remember the Pharo url shortcuts. I mean all of these: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable http://issues.pharo-project.org http://ci.pharo-project.org http://book.pharo-project.org http://wiki.pharo-project.org Can we create a new section somewhere in the Pharo website and list all those links ? Thanks a lot in advance, -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo 1.2.1. Setup for Win32 (including CogVM)
Thanks Torsten, I updated the download page. Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 15:39 , Torsten Bergmann wrote: Hi, now that Pharo 1.2.1. is available on the website I've also updated the Win32 Setup. You can grab it here: https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28467/setup_pharo1.2.1-12345-release11.04.06.exe Compared to the one click (26MB) this download is only 13MB in size and provides better windows integration. So if you are on Windows you can use this Whats new: == - Pharo 1.2.1.#12345 is included - Cog VM is included (CogVM VM.r2378) with a custom CogVM/Pharo icon Maybe Adrian is able to change: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download to point to the new executable. Thx T. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
I guess, the question is, *who* is sending the ANN mail?! It's not breaking news anymore, but we should still send one ;) Shall I do it? Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 15:47 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: But when are we going to send this mail to this mailing list? and pharo-users? etc... can we start to buzz arround ?
Re: [Pharo-project] SmalltalkHub going beta in a week
Wow, looks great! I think it's a good idea to *not* automatically migrate projects from SqueakSource ;). It's an opportunity to get rid of a lot of cruft that has accumulated on SqueakSource during the last years... Cheers, Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 13:07 , Tudor Girba wrote: Phenomenal stuff :). I cannot wait to use it. Will there be a possibility to migrate the existing squeaksource there? Cheers, Doru On 6 Apr 2011, at 13:00, Nicolas Petton wrote: Hi, We've been working on a new code repository project management application for Smalltalk with ESUG named SmalltalkHub. If everything goes fine, the app should be in public beta in a week. The source code of SmalltalkHub will be available at the same moment (the project itself is hosted by SmalltalkHub). Here's a screenshot in the meantime. http://nicolas-petton.fr/2011/04/06/smalltalkhub-beta-in-a-week.html Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr -- www.tudorgirba.com Being happy is a matter of choice.
Re: [Pharo-project] Delay bug
We managed to resolve our initial problem with the process scheduling [1]. All Cmsbox customers have been migrated to Pharo and it works very reliably now. Gary, maybe you could open a ticket already now and post what you know at this time to get early feedback. [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3498 Cheers Adrian On Apr 6, 2011, at 18:24 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: thanks gary. Yes adrian got a problem on his server after two weeks of load. I do not know how we can improve them. Stef On Apr 6, 2011, at 6:02 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: Well, we have been having problems with applications appearing to hang every 6 days or so (sound familiar?). I have identified a bug in the Delay implementation, rather obscure, but highlighted by our applications that make HEAVY use of processes/(tight, a few tens of milliseconds)delays/semaphores etc. Naturally due to an edge case on millisecond clock rollover... Affects all Squeak/Pharo versions, as far as I can tell. (It is separate from the OSProcess issues I have posted about a few weeks ago). I've developed a potential fix, though I'll have to let you all know whether (hopefully) successful in a week or two... fingers crossed! I hope it is fixable, last hurdle for business applications, from our point of view. I'll post details when fix confirmed or failed then. Regards, Gary
Re: [Pharo-project] ci.pharo-project.org redirect should be changed?
I changed it. Adrian On Apr 5, 2011, at 07:01 , laurent laffont wrote: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi... currently ci.pharo-project.org redirects to https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Pharo/ but I think it should be https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/ since everything inside there is Pharo. Pharo is not just the Pharo image. what do you think? +1 Laurent -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
Thanks, Sven That's a great summary! Adrian On Apr 4, 2011, at 23:01 , Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: I have a draft for a release announcement for Pharo 1.2.1 http://homepage.mac.com/svc/Pharo/pharo-1.2.1-release.html [ THIS IS A DRAFT !! - DO NOT YET RELEASE ] Please check this for errors and omissions, I will try to integrate the remarks tomorrow. Please check the links as well. I tried to stick with the basics, as one could write about so much (introducing Pharo Smalltalk and its features could be useful, but is quite challenging; everything loaded into dev could be described, and so on). I am sure I am not doing justice to all efforts by everybody, please give feedback. To give it a little twist, I started with a little 'story' called 'Update #12345', maybe it is to geeky, but it felt like a good angle to cover the basics about the process and the time spent. The most useful raw material was this http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotTwo It feels as if more could be said about Dev. I also tried to stick with just a simple screenshot, I could come up with more complicated ones, but we cannot put everything on one screenshot. Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
Thanks, Sven! I've put the page online - as a blog entry on the news page: http://www.pharo-project.org/news - the release page: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-2-1 (I've slightly edited some of the bullet point items to fit on one line) Thanks Laurent for the translation. I've linked to the wiki page you created. As far as I see there's one thing missing on the website: the download sticker for the one click image (top right on the page) still points to 1.1.1. I'll try to change the sticker and link tomorrow morning. Regarding the one click image, on the download page we linked to 1.1.1 with and without COG. Do we still have this distinction? Cheers, Adrian On Apr 5, 2011, at 21:15 , Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: OK, the board approved the draft, so here is the 1.2.1 release announcement: http://homepage.mac.com/svc/Pharo/pharo-1.2.1-release.html Adrian will put it on the website, next an official mail should be sent to the mailing lists. Then we should all try to spread the word! Even if it was a bit long winding in the end, this is a release to be proud of. Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] Draft Pharo 1.2.1 Release Announcement
ok, I fixed the text. Adrian On Apr 5, 2011, at 22:38 , Marcus Denker wrote: Therefore, this is not correct: Pharo 1.2.1 One-Click is the easiest to get started: it includes all needed components (image, change and source file as well as a fast, compatible Cog VM) in one package that requires no installation the linked image does not use Cog. Marcus
Re: [Pharo-project] Can we get 1.2 on the pharo web site?
Sure! I can help with updating the website. Is the list of changes [1] still work in progress or should I add as is? It would be nice to have it structured (I can do this) and a bit more detailed if possible. The site for the 1.1 release had a quite verbose summary [2]. Do we have the Pharo 1.2 and Pharo one click images ready already? Cheers, Adrian [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotTwo [2] http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-1 On Mar 29, 2011, at 19:28 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: HI guys Would it be possible that we have Pharo 1.2 on the web site? Marcus I can focus on 1.3. current fixes. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharogenesis anew
Wow, very cool! Just for others to realize what this is... Let's assume you want to see the change history of HTTPSocket classhttpGetDocument:args:accept:request:. With blame you can see for each line who changed it and when: https://github.com/pharogenesis/pharogenesis/blame/pharo/HTTPSocket/class/get%20the%20page/httpGetDocument-3A-args-3A-accept-3A-request-3A-.cs Or you can see diffs between particular versions. E.g., httpFileIn: was changed in 2005 as follows: https://github.com/pharogenesis/pharogenesis/commit/d88d2b9c9fdb234c7d6b977e513561a8d45d1c04#HTTPSocket/class/get the page/httpFileIn-3A-.cs Could the method versions dialog be extended to grab this data from GitHub? Cheers, Adrian On Mar 15, 2011, at 10:22 , Max Leske wrote: I just pushed the (hopefully) final version of Pharogenesis to github (github.com/pharogenesis/pharogenesis). I appologize to the followers for deleting and recreating the repository but that's the only way to keep the history clean. Max
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Actions done in Pharo 1.2
Also, if we know about non-backwards compatible changes that require adaptations when migrating from Pharo 1.1 to 1.2, that would be really helpful to support people in the process of upgrading to 1.2. Cheers, Adrian On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:10 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:05 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: we should look at the scriptloader log. yes...I also checked (quickly) the issues in the bug trackerI added all my findings/summary in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotTwo Yes this was a start to make a list Now we should continue it Stef On Mar 12, 2011, at 8:17 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: Please, we need help to write down / summarize all the actions done in Pharo 1.2. Include them here: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotTwo cheers Mariano
Re: [Pharo-project] Do you want to add the background picture to the image like we did with Pharo 1.1 ?
On Mar 13, 2011, at 18:40 , Tudor Girba wrote: I vote against using a picture as a background. +1 Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] what's happened to the blogger group?
On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:09 , Geert Claes wrote: Francois has posted another nice weekly summary on his blog at http://articles.tulipemoutarde.be For visibility I thought Dmitri and Farncois were to be given access to the Pharo website so they can post on the Pharo news/blg area too? Yes. I've created an account on our website for Dmitri. And I'll gladly create one for Farncois too (or anybody else who would like to take responsibility for posting news to the website). Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] about morphicSoundEventtcbkss0
I can't figure out what these methods have been used for exactly (probably for some conversion, there are more such methods with weird names like layoutMorphbosfcepcbbochvimol0). They have no senders, and they have been in the image since at least 1998 (I checked in a 3.2 image). I don't think anybody will miss them ;) Cheers, Adrian On Mar 4, 2011, at 21:22 , stephane ducasse wrote: Hi guys does anybody have an idea why SmartRefStream would need to refer to MorphicUnknownEvent? morphicSoundEventtcbkss0 ^ MorphicUnknownEvent Stef (the Ultimate Random Refactorer)
Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [ANN] pharo focused sprint - bern, feb 26
On Mar 2, 2011, at 20:33 , Luc Fabresse wrote: - Adrian, Jorge and Toon worked on implementing a Debugger on top of Glamour. They got a first version working that is able to do basic actions: step, restart, step into. The challenge was to get to understand the model, and to figure out that primitive: 19 is used for marking that a method should not be debugged. In any case, working with Glamour seemed to work quite smoothly. The code is available in the Glamorous Toolkit. Adrian, did I get it right? :) Nick in CC worked a lot to understand the model part of the Debugger. He has worked on a remote debugger. @Nick, you should have a look probably at this implementation of a debugger in Glamour. AFAICR the Debugger code really mixes the model, the GUI, the Debugees, ... so perhaps you can all join forces and propose a cleaner and extensible debugger ;-) Indeed, an independent model would make a lot of sense. Since the original logic is mixed with the GUI code, we just copied parts of it over to our new prototype. By factoring this out into an independent model we would not end up multiple copies for the original debugger, the Glomour debugger, the OB debugger, the remote debugger etc. Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] SqueakSource down... again
On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote: how about a file based system and git? yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago... The simplest thing that could work: - Write out changes to files (for each method and class) - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc. - After git actions, load changed files and compile Advantage: - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc. - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource - lower entry barrier for new people Disadvantage: - source control tools not integrated anymore - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;) Adrian On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote: Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen already in different threads but again the problems are: 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine running linux it could be better. 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite entirely squaeksource. Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about this). I'm trying to keep the system alive. Cheers, Fabrizio 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand hernan.mora...@gmail.com Thanks, do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable. I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but SqueakSource is down very often lately.. 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin fabrizio.pe...@gmail.com: SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i don't know how i can help you. 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand hernan.mora...@gmail.com SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any alternative free repository? Cheers, -- Hernán Morales Information Technology Manager, Institute of Veterinary Genetics. National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. Internal: 422 Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
Re: [Pharo-project] SqueakSource down... again
Hi Esteban, I look forward to testing it :) BTW, SqueakSource is not the problem for me (we have a HTTP repository). The MC speed is what bothers us most... I just responded in this thread since the idea was mentioned by Camillo. I know that other people are more attached to the Smalltalk way of doing things and prefer staying with MC, but I think we should seriously consider alternatives (as you apparently already do). I believe that closing the gap between the file-based languages and Smalltalk is possible without giving up too much... Cheers, Adrian On Feb 21, 2011, at 18:52 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote: Hi, I'm already working in a file based solution... it will be ready for test next one or two months :) There are some advantages I want to point: - Better for newcomers - Better for customers who want to see the sources (yes, I have some of them, time to time) - We don't need to take care about infrastructure anymore, just use one already existing (like Github) - Increases Pharo visibility in the web (this is really important, IMHO) - Hybrid projects (with external files) like VM, for instance, and many Seaside projects, can have just one source point (so tags, etc. has no need to be manually matched with monticello repository). - the solution I'm building (not just me, this is with a friend of mine who does not participate in the list) can work together with monticello, so you can have your sources frozen in the disk (and commit to git), and create a monticello version if you need it :) - We will use coral source format to keep files in disk, so they will be more readable than current file-out format (well, this can take a little more than two months, because I'm still understanding it) On the disadvantages... - Most important (because of the smalltalk culture, mostly) is the fact we loose the all in smalltalk thing...but that's not an issue IMHO. Pharo community is a lot more open than others, and we already are using some non-smalltalk tools (like hudson for building and google for tracking) - Yes, merging, etc. can be harder, but I think using a nice file format can lower this impact (and we are still supporting image-to/from-file merging). A couple of years ago some guys released SqueakSVN, as an alternative, but it failed to become an option... I think because SVN was already old at that time, and also because installation, etc. was hard, and also because it was an incomplete work, I think. Anyway... I'm doing this stuff because I need it, and I hope some others will consider it useful :) So... well... stay in touch ;) cheers, Esteban pd: yes... I know... I'm currently handling more projects than I can do... and that delays all my projects... but I'm doing my best, and any help is welcome :) El 21/02/2011, a las 1:55p.m., Guillermo Polito escribió: I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service. But we MUST have alternatives. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote: Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about changing the service? I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can address them. On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard a...@netstyle.ch wrote: On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote: how about a file based system and git? yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago... The simplest thing that could work: - Write out changes to files (for each method and class) - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc. - After git actions, load changed files and compile Advantage: - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc. - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource - lower entry barrier for new people Disadvantage: - source control tools not integrated anymore - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;) Adrian On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote: Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen already in different threads but again the problems are: 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine running linux it could be better. 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite entirely squaeksource. Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about this). I'm trying to keep the system alive. Cheers, Fabrizio 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand hernan.mora...@gmail.com Thanks, do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable. I don't
Re: [Pharo-project] ci.pharo-project.org down
Fixed. Thanks for reporting. Adrian On Feb 21, 2011, at 20:08 , laurent laffont wrote: There some aliens it seems http://ci.pharo-project.org Laurent
Re: [Pharo-project] Call for Pharo Support **important**
BTW, the call is also online at http://pharo-project.org/community/consortium Adrian On Feb 15, 2011, at 14:02 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Please distribute this message around Dear Pharoers We are pursuing an effort to bring Pharo to the next level: we will set up a consortium of pharo users and industrial partners. Our goal is to build a legal infrastructure that will be able to sustain the development of Pharo and improve its future. As an example, we would like to be able to collect funds (ways as to be determined - we foresee a membership model or moral license) to pay engineering tasks to be performed such as improving the virtual machine, network libraries, better JIT support. To make it short we would like to give a chance to our community to grow and structure itself so that Pharo can get stronger and that risk (truck factor) gets minimized. We are contacting you to know if your company/research group would be interested to support such effort. Showing such interest is strategically important for us and INRIA which could also support such effort. Attached is the letter of support that we will collect once signed and scanned ( stephane.duca...@inria.fr / faxed at: 00 33 (0)3 59 57 78 50) Thanks for your support The Pharo Board M. Denker, S. Ducasse, and A. Lienhard Pharo-LetterOfSupport-EN.doc
Re: [Pharo-project] [COTDC] 5 - PseudoFileStream
On Feb 8, 2011, at 21:35 , laurent laffont wrote: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.comwrote: looks like something who ends at some eToys stuff... :( I fear we are going to fail today... 20 hours left ;) Is MCConfigurationBrowser used actually ? MCConfigurationBrowser open = empty window I have never seen. Yes, we use MC configurations at netstyle.ch and Cmsbox. Today I would probably use Metacello instead, which does the same, and some more. Cheers, Adrian Laurent El 08/02/2011, a las 5:25p.m., laurent laffont escribió: Seriously, I cannot find what it is used for ... Laurent. On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 8:30 PM, laurent laffont laurent.laff...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@beta9.bewrote: Laurent, On 08 Feb 2011, at 17:39, laurent laffont wrote: Today: PseudoFileStream Comment Of The Day Contest - One Day One Comment Rules: Each day a not commented class is elected. Each day the best comment will be integrated with name of the author(s). Results: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ CommentOfTheDayContest Laurent You are not just picking classes that have no class comment, you are picking classes where it is a challenge just to find out what they do and why they even exist at all ;-) Are you sure you are doing this at random ?? I choose one class among 3/5 given at random. I want to play with you too ;) Laurent Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] thinking about a community model of funding
*g* I was always annoyed by this Wikipedia banner as it just used up almost half of my browser window. And I don't think I need to be on such a banner either. Cheers, Adrian On Feb 4, 2011, at 13:46 , Igor Stasenko wrote: On 4 February 2011 13:43, Geert Claes geert.wl.cl...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we should follow the banner approach like wikipedia and wikileaks :) http://forum.world.st/file/n3260101/PharoBoardAppeal.png haha.. who is that gray alien between two humans? :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/thinking-about-a-community-model-of-funding-tp3259753p3260101.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo fondation: administration and real people
Hi Sean and Dmitri, Thanks for offering your help. Indeed, it would be cool if we could set up a small team of two or three people who would help building the community through regular blogging, twittering, improving the website, etc. Cheers, Adrian On Feb 3, 2011, at 21:45 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Cool and thanks. Sean you know we try to pay attention to your fixes and we appreciate them/ Just not enough time to do all the work that should be done but we will do it. I think that it would be good for native english speakers to help bloging :) Since the mailing is quite dense, a digest every week for the outside world would be a huge promotion. I know some people that cannot cope with the amount of mails but would love to be aware of what we are doing. Stef On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: I would be happy to participate if I can be of service. I am aligned with and excited about the Pharo vision and am very interested in building on the North American (and especially New York) community. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-fondation-administration-and-real-people-tp3257762p3258936.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Tracing bugs/corrections/regressions ... in Pharo
On Feb 1, 2011, at 08:57 , Nicolas Cellier wrote: I understand that logging diffs of the entire squeaksource repository is a no go, but there must be another way. You have automated tests which is a real progress, so I don't see why simple diffs would be so high a technical problem. I (and likely most others) would love to see diffs. So the question really is a technical one. Could we do diffs locally in the integrator image when he commits a new update to the Pharo repository? MC implements that and we are using it here at Cmsbox. You get a diff mail for each committed package. The diff and mail is created in your local machine. Has that been considered before? Cheers, Adrian
[Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo domains for CI, book, issues, and wiki
For convenience, we have set up the following domains: http://issues.pharo-project.org http://ci.pharo-project.org http://book.pharo-project.org http://wiki.pharo-project.org Cheers, Adrian __ www.adrian-lienhard.ch twitter.com/adrianlienhard
Re: [Pharo-project] pharo.st should be a permanent domain, I think
-1 ...because in my opinion there should be exactly one main domain name. The additional names should just redirect to this one. Of course we could discuss whether pharo.st should be that main domain. But (already quite long time ago) we decided to go for pharo-project.org. I still think that is the better name, in particular for people who don't know what the meaning of .st is. I think they are less likely to klick on www.pharo.st in a search engine than on www.pharo-project.org. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 31, 2011, at 21:15 , Diogenes Moreira wrote: Always ready. as a boy scout.. only send me de ssh conxion... On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I tried pharo.st to reach pharo. I liked. It's small, concise, beautiful (and it has a .st!) One problem is that as soon as you type pharo.st, you loose the url. I would like to stay in the url I entered to pharo-project. I think this is easily doable with an apache configuration. I'm not an apache guy, but I'm sure if there are some problem with this, and all of you agree this is desirable, someone from the list (cough, cough, Diógenes, cough, cough) can do the job :) Cheers, Esteban
Re: [Pharo-project] pharo.st should be a permanent domain, I think
Hi Esteban, ...because in my opinion there should be exactly one main domain name. The additional names should just redirect to this one. why? For instance to make sure that there are not the same pages listed in search engine results with different domain names. Then, (according to SEO guys) you get better indexed if you have just one domain name, redirecting to it and making all external links point to that name. In general, I like consistency and I don't like redundancy :). Imagine in the mailing list one guy linking to pharo.st/news the next to www.pharo-project.org/news the next to www.pharo.st/news etc... Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Easy access on pharo-project.org
On Jan 30, 2011, at 12:09 , Marcus Denker wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: Implemented as redirects this is possible. Making the build server available under, say, ci.pharo-project.org should also be possible (without a redirect) since we have access to the server (I assume). It's a server managed by INRIA IT, though... so we need to check. With Google project this is obviously not possible. The question is where to implement the redirects. Marcus, can Hetzner, who hosts the DNS, do this? they just provide DNS... is this possible just with DNS? Not with DNS, but some DNS hosting services offer redirects AFAIK. We can also do redirects with Cmsbox. You would just need to point the third-level domains to us. Let's take that offline... Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Easy access on pharo-project.org
Implemented as redirects this is possible. Making the build server available under, say, ci.pharo-project.org should also be possible (without a redirect) since we have access to the server (I assume). With Google project this is obviously not possible. The question is where to implement the redirects. Marcus, can Hetzner, who hosts the DNS, do this? Adrian On Jan 26, 2011, at 13:44 , Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: +1 On a related note, I just discovered that pharo.st actually does the right thing, cool! I don't know how things are organized, but at least the pharo.st domain seems to be owned by Marcus. Anyway, in some respects it seems like a better name. Sven On 26 Jan 2011, at 11:14, Torsten Bergmann wrote: We have the shortcut to the collaborative book: http://book.pharo-project.org Would it be possible: 1. to access the build server https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/ under a simple name like: http://hudson.pharo.org or http://ci.pharo.org (ci = continuos integration) 2. to access the issue tracker http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues under http://issues.pharo-project.org or http://bugs.pharo-project.org 3. to access the wiki http://code.google.com/p/pharo/w/list under http://wiki.pharo-project.org 4. And the book page http://pharo-project.org/documentation/tutorials-books has no reference to the collaborative book http://book.pharo-project.org Thx T. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Re: [Pharo-project] why does monticello updates accessing web when i save on dir?
Does it access the web when you store to your local repo or when you copy to SqueakSource? Was that different with Squeak? If there's some unnecessary activity I would be interested to know about ;) Cheers, Adrian On Jan 25, 2011, at 14:44 , HwaJong Oh wrote: Saving packages in my local directory repository and then copying them to the squeaksource is my pattern of work since Squeak. But, when I apply that pattern, Pharo accesses web everytime i save a version taking long time. Is this behavior have some meaning or is it some sort of side effect? Best Regards -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/why-does-monticello-updates-accessing-web-when-i-save-on-dir-tp3236185p3236185.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] debugger problems?
On Jan 25, 2011, at 14:05 , Tudor Girba wrote: I am not alone! :) Anyone else noticed this? yes Is it http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=709 ? Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] why does monticello updates accessing web when i save on dir?
Do you mean #checkForNewerVersions with the message 'CAUTION! These versions in the repository may be newer:'? At least in PharoCore 1.1.1 this method doesn't have a sender. Adrian On Jan 25, 2011, at 15:49 , Igor Stasenko wrote: At some point it tries to refresh all know repositories.. probably to show you the warning Oh, but there is more recent version of the package you saving.. maybe you need to merge with it before saving I think this message could be made optional and turned off for professionals :) On 25 January 2011 15:25, HwaJong Oh daliot...@gmail.com wrote: It accesses the web when i store to my local repo. Since my last post here, I am coming up with a suspicion that it may have some package dependency toward the web. I better check. Your interest tell me, it is not a usual case. It is interesting to me, too. :-) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/why-does-monticello-updates-accessing-web-when-i-save-on-dir-tp3236185p3236255.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Re: [Pharo-project] Reminder: change the archiving tool
On Jan 21, 2011, at 15:23 , Torsten Bergmann wrote: All .zip files with pharo images having an annoying Apple-ism - a .DS_Store garbage file. Please use a zip archiver which includes only relevant files to archive, because obviously this garbage has no use anywhere but Macs. Last time I mentioned this (as windows user) I was told (by Adrian or Stef?) they are usefull/required for Mac users not me :) I agree, we should avoid shipping with this garbage... I assume that with the automated builds from Hudson the problem will go away. Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo issues on Google
Works for me... Adrian On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:20 , Gary Chambers wrote: IFor that url I get: GoogleError Server Error The server encountered an error and could not complete your request. If the problem persists, please report your problem and mention this error message and the query that caused it. Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo issues on Google what do you mean not sending notification? not sending mails? I get the list http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list Stef On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: Is the Pharo issues google site not working? Regards, Gary
Re: [Pharo-project] Is there a http server that understands PUT?
Hi Norbert, I suggest to have a look at Zink: http://homepage.mac.com/svc/Zinc-HTTP-Components/index.html Cheers, Adrian On Jan 17, 2011, at 21:22 , Norbert Hartl wrote: While trying to consume some PUT urls with Seaside-REST I noticed that the transmitted content is missing. I tried Comanche as well as swazoo. At this moment I'm not sure if I did something wrong but I seems that only GET and POST are treated. Does anyone has some experience on this? thanks, Norbert
Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime millisecond is always 0
On Jan 15, 2011, at 09:21 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: Sorry, I meen DateAndTime now millisecond and DateAndTime now nanoSecond. As I write in last mail. I found cuis fix of this in Pharo issues where? Denis sent a link to the issue in question in a previous mail in this thread: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3236 Adrian __ www.adrian-lienhard.ch twitter.com/adrianlienhard
Re: [Pharo-project] we will start 1.3 really soon
Cool :) BTW, I have a question related to 1.2 from a user's perspective: could we generate a summary to help people migrate from 1.1.1 to 1.2? In particular, the question is which changes in 1.2 are not backwards compatible and may break my code? I've been a bit out of the loop during the last months... so at least for me this is not obvious ;). There's http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotTwo but it doesn't tell the important bits. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 15, 2011, at 09:27 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys there are some minors fixes to be addressed (like the preferences use in dev) but we will go 1.3 probably this evening and we will start to harvest a large list of pending issues. If you have seen fixes in squeak that you think are good please add a bug entry. After that we will plan for the big changes in 1.3 for me I would like to see - collection enh (finishing hashed collection) - weak structure support - announcement using weak structure - file system use - new package implementation (cyrille worked and will continue to really make sure everything works) - real beta of OPAL The goal is to have a release for 1.3 by June/July. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime millisecond is always 0
Hi Denis, There's no method milliseconds (at least in my Pharo 1.1.1 image). Can you be more specific? I assume you want to get the milli seconds of a timestamp, rather than the millisecond clock (DateAndTime millisecondClockValue). When you create a new timestamp (TimeStamp now) the milli/nano seconds are indeed 0. The reason is that the timestamp is initialized from Time totalSeconds. So I consider this not as a bug but something that could be improved. Cheers, Adrian BTW, I remember having seen a fix on Mantis (= Squeak bug tracker) which asserts that TimeStamp now TimeStamp now. On Jan 14, 2011, at 10:20 , Denis Kudriashov wrote: Hello. How I can get current time milliseconds parameter? I try DateAndTime millisecond. But it always zero. And DateAndTime nanoSecond is always zero too. Is it bug? I use Pharo1.1
Re: [Pharo-project] ZeroMQ, Mongrel2...
Yes, I'm interested Adrian On Jan 11, 2011, at 17:24 , Geoffroy Couprie wrote: Hello, What would you think of a ZeroMQ frontend to Pharo? I was playing with ZeroMQ, and more specifically the Mongrel2 web server, and I thought that would be cool to use it, but the only reference of ZeroMQ and Smalltalk I saw was about some code from Thomas Gagné, which is not available anymore. Anyhow, would you be interested in a port to Pharo? It looks like the protocol is not really hard to implement. Best regards, Geoffroy
Re: [Pharo-project] next irc meeting: Thursday 13 at 21h
I can't be online at 21 (1 hour later would probably work). But don't worry about me :) Adrian On Jan 7, 2011, at 09:11 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys Let us know if this is ok and that we broadcast it. the channel is #pharo-project on irc.freenode.net. If you don't have an IRC client you can browse to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=pharo-project http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?day=13month=1year=2011hour=21min=00sec=00p0=195 Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Including Zinc HTTP Components in Pharo 1.2 Dev ?
Hi Sven, +1 for Pharo 1.2 (the dev image) -1 for patching HTTPSocket (dev packages should not modify core code) For 1.3 we should think about integrating Zinc in PharoCore to replace HTTPSocket. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:05 , Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: Hi, Maybe I am a bit late with this question, I also don't know who makes the decision, and it is probably external people who have to make the judgement, but would it be possible and/or a good idea to include Zinc HTTP Components into Pharo 1.2 Dev ? In any case, the code is in good shape, works on 1.2, has a reasonable number of tests, has comments, is pretty small and elegant. Whether or not to load the Zinc-Patch-HTTPSocket package is another question. This package patches (destructively overwrites) class methods in HTTPSocket, redirecting them to ZnHTTPSocketFacade, effectively steering all HTTP client access in your Smalltalk image through Zinc HTTP Components. This has been working for me for months, but my usage is certainly not universal. So maybe this should remain an option. I would especially like to expose this code to more people to get more feedback. I am also willing to keep on supporting the code. What do you think ? Sven
Re: [Pharo-project] About preloaded packages
On Jan 7, 2011, at 10:15 , Johan Brichau wrote: On 07 Jan 2011, at 09:05, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: I would really like that pharo-dev does not contain too many libraries pre loaded (for example XMLSupport). I would favor push metacello so that in one click people can load what they want. +1 +1 I would also be rather conservative with regard to adding packages that are not developer tools. If we add XML we should probably also add XYZ. Wouldn't it make sense to add Seaside too? The problem here is not primarily the larger image file size, but the image becomes bloated in general (e.g., search results) and there's a risk of conflicts (e.g., we are using the pharo-dev image, but with our own Seaisde 2.9 version; if the image comes with a preinstalled Seaside 3, we couldn't use it anymore). It appears to me that preloading packages like XML is just points out that a good package manager is missing. Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Including Zinc HTTP Components in Pharo 1.2 Dev ?
On Jan 7, 2011, at 20:10 , Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: On 07 Jan 2011, at 13:58, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: I was just reading the code with olivier auverlot. I would love to have a small if possible replacement to the HTTPSocket. There really is a lot of cleanup to do. The key/core replacement of HTTP client functionality is done, but HTTPSocket does so much stuff in such bizar ways that it will require a concerted effort of many people to clean it up. I guess that a lot of stuff isn't needed anymore and hence doesn't need to be reimplemented (?). We could deprecate such methods (or just delete them) and if later we figure some are really needed we can put them back again. I've quickly browser the references to HTTPSocket in PharoCore and there are not too many complicated ones, as far as I can tell. Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Origins [poll]
On Jan 6, 2011, at 00:37 , csra...@bol.com.br wrote: Miguel, You rather create a wiki page (or edit the one Stef intends to put our pictures in a near future ;-) BTW, we already have a page with pictures: http://pharo-project.org/community/contributors. Certainly there are people missing (I didn't check). We could also extend the information on this page, with country and language if this is desired (not so important for me), or the Twitter name (more interesting). Cheers, Adrian my 0.01999... -- Cesar Rabak Name|Native Language|Greeting in native lang|Born country|Writing from Cesar Rabak |Spanish/Portuguese/Italian|Hola/Olá/Ciao|Peru|São Paulo, SP - Brazil Em 05/01/2011 19:38, Miguel Cobá miguel.c...@gmail.com escreveu: It is a new year and I thought that it would be good to know from which part of the world each person in this list is (or was born), so we can get a better look at the diversity of the community. I start: Name|Native Language|Greeting in native lang|Born country|Writing from Miguel Cobá|Spanish|Hola|Mexico|Mexico City,Mexico Cheers -- Miguel Cobá http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3507 in pharo: SUnitUnloader unloadTestPackages is wrong and outdated
Hi Mariano, Nice to see you working on this (sorry, I still didn't get around to do the cleanUp: refactoring (if you like to do this, please go ahead)). Regarding your extension of #unloadTestPackages I have the following remark: when I implemented this I took care to make all remaining packages non-dirty. For example, you unload Regex-Tests-Core and this will change the contents of the Regex package and hence make it dirty. To avoid this, I moved tests into their own package – either into their own package like in the case of GraphicsResources (see related comment on the issue tracker) or into the global test package Tests. Apparently somebody didn't take care when updating VB-Regex because the tests are back in the main Regex package. Now, I don't know whether clean packages after shrinking is a desired property. It's not critical for me but it feels better to have a well modularized image without needing to unload random sub-packages, classes and methods. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 5, 2011, at 23:08 , ph...@googlecode.com wrote: Updates: Status: Fixed Comment #1 on issue 3507 by marianopeck: SUnitUnloader unloadTestPackages is wrong and outdated http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3507 (No comment was entered for this change.)
Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3507 in pharo: SUnitUnloader unloadTestPackages is wrong and outdated
Hi Torsten, Sorry, you are right. I apparently checked this in an 1.1.1 image (and I forgot that you have refactored Regex). Splitting the package up into -Core -Help and -Tests is a good solution indeed. So the change of #unloadTestPackages proposed by Mariano makes perfect sense. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 6, 2011, at 10:08 , Torsten Bergmann wrote: I have the following remark: when I implemented this I took care to make all remaining packages non-dirty. For example, you unload Regex-Tests-Core and this will change the contents of the Regex package and hence make it dirty. To avoid this, I moved tests into their own package – either into ... Apparently somebody didn't take care when updating VB-Regex because the tests are back in the main Regex package. Hi Adrian, I dont understand what you mean: Anything we forgot was to update #unloadTestPackages (which is now solved with issue 3507 by Mariano). In Pharo1.2beta #12292 there is no VB-Regex or Regex package anymore. So nothing to become dirty here. There is a Regex-Core, Regex-Help and Regex-Tests-Core. So test can easily be unloaded and existing packages are still clean. And yes ... if you would manually create a package Regex then it would have become dirty (because class categories are abused). But we know that and it can only be solved by introducing real packages. Using a RegexTest... package icould be a workaround and avoids this - but we use the same naming scheme as Seaside. Bye T. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3507 in pharo: SUnitUnloader unloadTestPackages is wrong and outdated
On Jan 6, 2011, at 17:54 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: Thanks for the remark anyway Adrian. Now, after evaluating the unloads, I open a Monticello Browser and I don't see any package as dirty. However, this is not really confident. Sometimes Monticello shows a package not direty, but just after doing a changes it gets dirtyis this enought or I should do something else to be sure there are no dirties? Yes, there are indeed cases where the package is not correctly marked dirty. I think that's safe to verify with changes, though. Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo
Hi Esteban, Yes, I know... So, how do you do the shrinking? ;) Do you unload by package? If yes, are the remaining MC packages clean and there are no obsolete classes etc. in the resulting image? Cheers, Adrian On Jan 5, 2011, at 13:21 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote: Ah, I forgot to say the the general idea of my brute shrinking was opposite to Pavel's idea: Pavel's pharo kernel images is about to have a really tiny image and use that as a foundation to build major images. Mine is: having already a production image, I want to strip from image all things I'm not using, so my *final* image (not my starting image) is as small as possible. Cheers, Esteban El 05/01/2011, a las 4:58a.m., Adrian Lienhard escribió: On Jan 4, 2011, at 22:42 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader Yes, that would be good! Like this we can improve them and other people can contribute. Esteban, could you share your experience with unloading packages? I assume you had to also reorganize packages to make them cleanly unloadable? If yes these changes should be integrated to improve the modularization. Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo
On Jan 4, 2011, at 22:42 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader Yes, that would be good! Like this we can improve them and other people can contribute. Esteban, could you share your experience with unloading packages? I assume you had to also reorganize packages to make them cleanly unloadable? If yes these changes should be integrated to improve the modularization. Cheers, Adrian
[Pharo-project] IRC meeting next Tuesday, January 4, at ...?
Hi all, During the last meeting [1] we decided to do the next one on January 4 but we didn't decide when to start. The previous meeting started at 20:00 CET/UTC/GMT+1, which may not be optimal for people in other time zones. If somebody likes to suggest another time, please let us know soon! Cheers, Adrian [1] http://pharo-project.org/news?article=irc-meeting-notes
Re: [Pharo-project] An intuitive (or screwed) #copyFrom:
Yes, this method name is unfortunate...
I think we should just rename the method and tag copyFrom: as deprecated. And
some versions later we'll implement copyFrom: as we think is appropriate.
Cheers,
Adrian
BTW Sebastian, I think your energy would be better invested into producing a
changeset and challenging the invalid-tag of Henrik in a rational way than to
writing a are you stupid?-mail.
On Jan 1, 2011, at 19:13 , Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 1 January 2011 18:15, Sebastian Sastre s...@sebastianconcept.com wrote:
('if this isn''t broken' copyFrom: 15) ~= 'broken' ifTrue:['this is
screwed'] ifFalse:['this is intuitive']
my first thought about it was that it should answer own copy ,
starting from 15th element :)
Evaluate that in any Pharo workspace and it will show you.
Reported here.
Status? invalid
but then i saw its implementation... ouch...
Came on guys. Really?
I ask because, if so, situation goes like this:
A. we think again and decide to do the right thing or we go with the
alternative which is
B. we leave it as invalid, as it is right now, and
1. we mislead even to smalltalkers not familiarized to squeak/pharo
2. we rationalize some clever way to see it as a feature even if it will
mislead everybody (even ourselves in a hurry)
3. we lay a foundation to lightly use protocol that is typically used in
collections (to do dangerous things like instVar manipulation)
4. we break encapsulation and manipulate extremely primitive things in a
common sounding selector.
5. we work harder on trying to give the impression that we're leaving it
like that because we're smarter than the confused people that tried to use
it (proving to them that we're dumb)
6. we get involved in an unnecessarily complicated way of thinking that will
complicate unnecessarily our future (guaranteed)
7. we learn how to maintain a screwed attitude in front of people trying to
use intuition when using pharo
8. we stay comfortable (on the wrong foundation and for the wrong reasons)
That would leave us with this question in the table:
what is compatible with the Pharo's mission? is it A or B?
hey. slow down..
8 arguments is too much for it, but i can understand how deeply such
thing could hurt :)
This is really screwed primitive.
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Re: [Pharo-project] running osprocess
Hi Alex, One source of problems is that, as you are on a Mac, you have an outdated plugin (it is from April 1, 2007). It would be nice if the Mac VM shipped with an up to date plugin... You may also find the recent status report of Dave Lewis, which he posted to this list on December 1, useful. Cheers, Adrian On Dec 20, 2010, at 20:45 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/153430 gives me some hint. I wasn't able to run the tests. For example: testCatAFile | p openFileCount | openFileCount := self numberOfOpenFiles. p := UnixProcess catAFile. self assert: p notNil. self should: [p isRunning]. [p isRunning] whileTrue: [(Delay forMilliseconds: 100) wait]. block here I need to interrupt with alt-. OSProcess accessor osppModuleVersionString ='4.3.2' Is there something wrong we're doing? Cheers, Alexandre On 20 Dec 2010, at 16:22, Alexandre Bergel wrote: Hi! I wasn't able to run OSProcess on Mac and on Linux. I get the error process accessor module not available. Doru mentioned it on Sep 23. Is the situation the same? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-project] running osprocess
Hi Esteban, On Dec 20, 2010, at 22:49 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote: El 20/12/2010, a las 5:59p.m., Adrian Lienhard escribió: Hi Alex, One source of problems is that, as you are on a Mac, you have an outdated plugin (it is from April 1, 2007). It would be nice if the Mac VM shipped with an up to date plugin... yep... it is planned... no time to implement it yet, sorry (this end year is full of work) :( No problem. It is nice to hear you already have it on the wish list. Cheers, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] a way to ignore warnings?
BlockClosure#valueSupplyingAnswer: and friends are also useful. Cheers, Adrian On Dec 21, 2010, at 06:27 , Hernán Morales Durand wrote: 2010/12/20 Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.com: duh... [ ... ] on: Warning do: [ :w | w resume ]. forget my question... :( That wouldn't make it for Notifications such as: self inform: 'test' so you might want to write: [ self inform: 'test' ] on: Warning, Notification do: [: ex | ex return: 'Ignored: ' , ex class name , ' ' , ex messageText ]. Cheers, cheers, Esteban Inicio del mensaje reenviado: De: Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.com Fecha: 20 de diciembre de 2010 21:22:49 GMT-03:00 Para: Pharo Development pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Asunto: a way to ignore warnings? Hi, Is there a way to tell Pharo to ignore warning blocking messages? you those messages where you can press proceed and continue, for instance, loading a monticello package. cheers, Esteban -- Hernán Morales Information Technology Manager, Institute of Veterinary Genetics. National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. Internal: 422 Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool
On Dec 9, 2010, at 16:25 , Martin Dias wrote: Hi all, Thank you for the discussion, is very interesting for me. Thanks Adrian, I don't have benchmarks with ImageSegment, so I like to see the numbers, how could I reproduce that benchmarks? it would be useful for me. This is the essential part of our code (in a subclass of ImageSegment) that writes out our model starting from the root anObject basicSave: anObject | stream temp symbolHolder | symbolHolder := Symbol allSymbols. self copyFromRoots: (Array with: anObject) sizeHint: self fileSize // 2 areUnique: true. state = #activeCopy ifFalse: [ ^ self logger error: 'wrong serializer state' ]. temp := endMarker. endMarker := nil. stream := FileStream forceNewFileNamed: fileName. [ stream fileOutClass: nil andObject: self ] ensure: [ stream close ]. endMarker := temp. Loading is done as follows: | stream streamContents mode object | stream := aDirectory oldFileOrNoneNamed: filename. streamContents := stream fileInObjectAndCode. ^ streamContents install I just timed how long it takes to run these method. HTH, Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool
Even if Fuel can be 10x faster, it doesn't really make a difference IMHO. It would be interesting to thoroughly profile MC to figure where it spends all its time (with large projects it gets very very slow, like several minutes to just show the merge diffs between two branches). I guess those days are over when MC spends minutes doing this, it's at most a few seconds for large packages. The 1.5MB Morphic package of Squeak can be compared to another really old version (changes) in 3 seconds. According to MessageTally 50% of the time is spend in getting the timeStamp for the methods. Sure, that's for one package. But we don't just put everything in one package; we have like 20 packages for a large project. 20 x 3s is already a minute. Large ancestry and HTTP repository also has an influence. I've done several small optimizations (like adding caching) to speed things up. But still, MC speed in our case is rather measured in minutes than seconds :( Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Hudson and version number
That's how I did it: Install the Hudson description setter plugin [1] From Pharo, when you do the build and know the last build number, log this version to stdout (e.g., [version] 1.2 #12421). In the job config enable Set build description and add the following settings: - Set build description: \[version\] (.*) - Description: \1 [1] http://wiki.hudson-ci.org/display/HUDSON/Description+Setter+Plugin Like this you get a description below each build as shown in the attached screenshot. Cheers, Adrian inline: Screen shot 2010-12-08 at 09.46.10 .png On Dec 8, 2010, at 09:39 , Marcus Denker wrote: On Dec 8, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: On Dec 8, 2010, at 8:25 AM, Luc Fabresse wrote: Hi all, I was looking the results of the 1.2 build #33. https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/job/Pharo%20Core%201.2/33/ Where is displayed the version number of the 1.2 used for this build? Was it the12271? I always loads all updates... so it's the version that was available at the time of build. It would be nice to display the update number... if anyone has an idea how to do that? And I forgot: after an update is commited, the build starts automatically within 2 minutes. So in the end this means: the latest build on Hudson is the latest update available. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool
Hi Martin, I took some application for which we use image segments to test Fuel - With Fuel serializing and writing to disk took 330s. File size is 16.1MB - With image segments saving takes 4s and the file size is 2.4MB - When loading, I got a low space warning because the primitive newMethod:header: failed. - Loading with image segments takes 11 seconds I wonder what your rational is for objects are much more times loaded than stored. In our case its exactly the other way round. We store very often (like every couple of minutes if there are changes), but only load when we restart an image (this may be weeks). HTH, Adrian On Dec 8, 2010, at 17:50 , Martin Dias wrote: Hi all Last months I and Tristan have been working on Fuel project, an object binary serialization tool. The idea is that objects are much more times loaded than stored, therefore it is worth to spend time while storing in order to have faster loading and user experience. We present an implementation of a pickle format that is based on clustering similar objects. There is a summary of the project below, but more complete information is available here: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Fuel The implementation still needs a lot of work to be really useful, optimizations should be done, but we'll be glad to get feedback of the community. = Pickle format = The pickle format and the serialization algorithm main idea, is explained in this slides: http://www.slideshare.net/tinchodias/fuel-serialization-in-an-example = Current features = - Class shape changing (when a variable has been added, or removed, or its index changed) - Serialize most of the basic objects. - Serialize (almost) any CompiledMethod - Detection of global or class variables - Support for cyclic object graphs - Tests = Next steps = - Improve version checking. - Optimize performance. - Serialize more kinds of objects: -- Class with its complete description. -- Method contexts -- Active block closures -- Continuation - Some improvements for the user: -- pre and post actions to be executed. -- easily say 'this object is singleton'. - Partial loading of a stored graph. - Fast statistics/brief info extraction of a stored graph. - ConfigurationOfFuel. - Be able to deploy materialization behavior only (independent from the serialization behavior) = Download = In a Pharo 1.1 or 1.1.1 evaluate: Gofer new squeaksource: 'Fuel'; version: 'Fuel-MartinDias.74'; version: 'FuelBenchmarks-MartinDias.4'; load. = Benchmarks = You can run benchmarks executing this line (results in Transcript): FLBenchmarks newBasic run. Thank you! Martin Dias
Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool
On Dec 8, 2010, at 22:33 , Levente Uzonyi wrote: On Wed, 8 Dec 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: Well, I doubt if speed is really important, since you're loading everything at most once. And the current tools are really fast IMHO. The following numbers are from Squeak: [ Compiler recompileAll ] timeToRun. 29083. CompiledMethod allInstances size. 60701. [ CompiledMethod allInstancesDo: [ :each | each getSource ] ] timeToRun. 1133. So the compiler is compiling 2087 methods per second on average. You can load 53575 methods per second from a file on average. If it's zipped, than it may be a bit slower, say a factor of 2-3x slowdown. So you can still load and compile more than 1800 methods per second. I guess thats fast enough. Even if Fuel can be 10x faster, it doesn't really make a difference IMHO. It would be interesting to thoroughly profile MC to figure where it spends all its time (with large projects it gets very very slow, like several minutes to just show the merge diffs between two branches). Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool
On Dec 8, 2010, at 22:49 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Adrian Lienhard a...@netstyle.ch wrote: Hi Martin, I took some application for which we use image segments to test Fuel - With Fuel serializing and writing to disk took 330s. File size is 16.1MB - With image segments saving takes 4s and the file size is 2.4MB but how are you using ImageSegment? just the primitive? because in order to compare it to Fuel, you should write all objects, including outPointers. So you should use #writeForExportOn: or similar... yes, this includes outPointers serialized with reference stream and writing to disk. Adrian BTW, I was just providing the numbers that I gathered when looking at Fuel (to see whether that could be interesting for our use case to replace image segments). This was not to say that Fuel is not on the right way or anything, but I though the numbers would be interesting for Martin because they show a real-world use case with a large number of objects. I know that Fuel is in an early stage of development and it doesn't (yet?) have a primitive/plugin to speed things up.
Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Vm-dev] Image freeze because handleTimerEvent and Seaside process gone?!
The changes between 1.1 and 1.1.1 are the issues in [1]. None seems related... did I miss something? One change that I don't understand, although it probably is unrelated, is in [2]: LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #=! LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #bitAnd:! LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #bitOr:! LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #bitShift:! LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #bitXor:! LargePositiveInteger removeSelector: #'~='! Why would one want to remove these primitive calls from large integers? Cheers, Adrian [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=1q=Milestone%3D1.1.1colspec=ID+Type+Status+Summary+Milestone+Difficultycells=tiles [2] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/attachmentText?id=2912aid=-244293168443082name=NecessaryImageChangesForCogToWork.Pharo1.1.cstoken=4a16b7709abc303c3826e5be2743eeb7 On Dec 7, 2010, at 09:52 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: David T. Lewis le...@mail.msen.com Date: Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Vm-dev] Image freeze because handleTimerEvent and Seaside process gone?! To: Squeak Virtual Machine Development Discussion vm-...@lists.squeakfoundation.org, a...@netstyle.ch On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 12:33:59PM -0800, Andreas Raab wrote: At a guess, I'd say it's either one of two issues: 1) Your STOP/CONT handling. This sounds suspicious and it could affect the timer handling. I'm assuming that the issue happens after receiving the CONT signal, no? If you can, you might want to a) make sure that you only get the STOP signal when the VM is in ioRelinquish() and not (for example) currently executing the delay process and b) consider to dump the call stacks whenever the VM gets the CONT signal to see what the status is. 2) Some set of incomplete process/delay/semaphore changes in Pharo. One of the problems with processes and delays is that this part of the system reacts very badly to random cleaning. I.e., changing foo == nil to foo isNil can have dramatic effects (since it introduces a suspension point) with just the kind of weird issue you're seeing. Actually #2 does seem like a likely culprit. I found a Pharo 1.1 image and loaded the CommandShell and OSProcess test suites. The CommandShell tests put a heavy load on process switching, and are rather timing dependent. On Pharo 1.1 I get intermittent and non-reproducible errors and test failures, and I can't get a clean run of the test suite. The errors seem to be different each time. On Pharo 1.1.1 and 1.2 I can get clean runs of the CommandShell/OSProcess tests, so I think there must be some issues in Pharo 1.1. If you are using PharoCore 1.1 now and have the option of moving to Pharo 1.1.1 or 1.2, I suspect you may see the problems go away. Dave With regards to these processes not being printed, that's a side effect of how printAllStacks gathers the processes - it will not print suspended processes which explains why the UI process doesn't print and most likely handleTimerEvent is suspended in a debugger. Depending on how important this issue is you can also try to dissect the object memory itself. If you call writeImageFile (or is it writeImageFileIO?) from gdb it will dump the .image file and you can use the simulator to look at it more closely. Most likely you'll be able to find the processes and look at their stacks. Cheers, - Andreas On 12/6/2010 2:55 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: Hi all, We've been experiencing an interesting problem: the image freezes and does not response to HTTP requests anymore after it has been running for days. Here some basic information about our setup: Squeak VM 4.0.3-2202 compiled with gcc 4.3.2 PharoCore 1.1 OS Debian Lenny amd64 (CPUs are 4 Intel Xeon E5530 2.40GHz) - We have never seen the problem with the Squeak VM 3.9-9 and Squeak 3.9 on the identical machine and with the same application source (modulo some adaptations to make it run on Pharo). - We run the VM with -mmap 512m -vm-sound-null -vm-display-null, and the UI process is suspended (Project uiProcess suspend) - VM does not hog the CPU and memory usage is normal - The meantime between failure is several weeks and we haven't managed to reproduce the problem - The application mainly serves HTTP requests. When the image does not receive requests for some time we send it a STOP signal, when a request comes in it is sent a CONT signal. - lsof shows TCP *:9093 (LISTEN) TCP server:9093-server:46930 (CLOSE_WAIT) Below is a GDB backtrace and the Smalltalk stacks from an image that was frozen (the VM had been running for almost 100 hours): = (gdb) bt #0 0x08072020 in ?? () #1signal handler called #2 0xb766f5e0 in malloc () from /lib/libc.so.6 #3function called from gdb #4 0xb76c50c8 in select () from /lib/libc.so.6 #5 0x08071063 in aioPoll () #6
Re: [Pharo-project] 'stash' a Smalltalk shell or what happens when you let your mind wander in the shower....
I like it :) Adrian On Dec 7, 2010, at 19:30 , Dale Henrichs wrote: I was thinking about a number of things in the shower this morning and then it occurred to me that it would be interesting to create a shell environment INSIDE a Smalltalk vm. It wouldn't be a complete environment, but it would include a small set of standard unix utilities: - awk - sed - grep the directory structure would be the package structure in the image (or maybe multiple views on the image contents) with the basic idea that you 'cd' into a class where there is a 'file' that contains the class attributes. you then 'cd instance/all' and you are in a directory of methods where you can 'vi at:put:' and have a vi-like editor come up on the source of the at:put: method of course awk, grep, and sed work on all of these 'source files'... there would be 'executable files' that are simply workspaces ... I know that folks have externalized files, but I don't know if anyone has internalized the shell environment ... The reason for internalizing the shell is that it becomes easy to transition to the debugger and other traditional browsers/windows. The big reason for internalizing the shell is to provide a unix-like interface for Smalltalk that might make transition to the Smalltalk tools easier for folks new to Smalltalk. The secondary reason (and probably just as important) for internalizing the shell, is that the hard-core Smalltalk developers might actually find some utility in using the smalltalk shell in the normal course of development and if hard-core developers use it, it will be maintained and might lead to other interesting things... The idea is that the entire smalltalk shell would be implemented in Smalltalk so you could bring up browsers with a command ... I've been thinking wistfully back to the days when I lived inside of Emacs in the days before every terminal had a mouse ... back then I put my hands on the keyboard at the start of the day and they stayed there the entire day all window navigation was done via the keyboard ... I lost all of that once I started doing development in Smalltalk... Anyway that about covers todays ideas from the shower... Dale
[Pharo-project] IRC meeting notes
This evening the announced IRC meeting took place. I've published the notes as a blog post on our website: http://pharo-project.org/news?article=irc-meeting-notes Cheers, Adrian ___ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/
[Pharo-project] Image freeze because handleTimerEvent and Seaside process gone?!
Hi all, We've been experiencing an interesting problem: the image freezes and does not response to HTTP requests anymore after it has been running for days. Here some basic information about our setup: Squeak VM 4.0.3-2202 compiled with gcc 4.3.2 PharoCore 1.1 OS Debian Lenny amd64 (CPUs are 4 Intel Xeon E5530 2.40GHz) - We have never seen the problem with the Squeak VM 3.9-9 and Squeak 3.9 on the identical machine and with the same application source (modulo some adaptations to make it run on Pharo). - We run the VM with -mmap 512m -vm-sound-null -vm-display-null, and the UI process is suspended (Project uiProcess suspend) - VM does not hog the CPU and memory usage is normal - The meantime between failure is several weeks and we haven't managed to reproduce the problem - The application mainly serves HTTP requests. When the image does not receive requests for some time we send it a STOP signal, when a request comes in it is sent a CONT signal. - lsof shows TCP *:9093 (LISTEN) TCP server:9093-server:46930 (CLOSE_WAIT) Below is a GDB backtrace and the Smalltalk stacks from an image that was frozen (the VM had been running for almost 100 hours): = (gdb) bt #0 0x08072020 in ?? () #1 signal handler called #2 0xb766f5e0 in malloc () from /lib/libc.so.6 #3 function called from gdb #4 0xb76c50c8 in select () from /lib/libc.so.6 #5 0x08071063 in aioPoll () #6 0xb778bb8d in ?? () from /usr/lib/squeak/4.0.3-2202//so.vm-display-null #7 0x03e8 in ?? () #8 0x997b5a34 in ?? () #9 0xbfe7cb28 in ?? () #10 0x08074575 in ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds () Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC (gdb) call printCallStack() -1719969228 idleProcess -1719969320 startUp -1740134028 BlockClosurenewProcess $3 = -1755344892 (gdb) call (int) printAllStacks() Process -1719969228 idleProcess -1719969320 startUp -1740134028 BlockClosurenewProcess Process -1740113860 finalizationProcess -1740113952 restartFinalizationProcess -1740113532 BlockClosurenewProcess Process -1740134424 SmalltalkImagelowSpaceWatcher -1740134516 SmalltalkImageinstallLowSpaceWatcher -1740134300 BlockClosurenewProcess Process -1719451488 Delaywait -1719451580 BlockClosureifCurtailed: -1719451704 Delaywait -1719451796 InputEventPollingFetcherwaitForInput -1740126940 InputEventFetchereventLoop -1740127032 InputEventFetcherinstallEventLoop -1740126816 BlockClosurenewProcess Process -1719557780 UnixOSProcessAccessorgrimReaperProcess -1740113624 BlockClosurerepeat -1740113716 UnixOSProcessAccessorgrimReaperProcess -1740117340 BlockClosurenewProcess [omitted many newlines between output above] = What is striking from the above process listing is that two processes are missing: the handleTimerEvent process and the Seaside process (that is, the TCP listener loop). How comes these processes vanished? This may be related to Pharo or to the Squeak VM. Has anybody else seen this problem? Any idea how to debug/fix this issue is very much appreciated! Cheers, Adrian CCed to pharo-dev since this may be related to Pharo; please respond on the squeak-vm list
Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo list of ongoing or soon starting projects needing some help
One item on the list that is missing, in my opinion, is a Package management system. With Metacello we have the underlying infrastructure but what we lack is a process, the supporting tools, and building of a community around contributing and managing external packages. Today it's hard to find whether somebody already did what one needs, and its hard to install others work because dependencies and general information about a package is missing. Adrian BTW, for an example of a simple catalogue see http://pypi.python.org/pypi and this page for a package description: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mcs/0.3.3 On Dec 4, 2010, at 16:06 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys Here is a list of important projects for the future and you can help us making the infrastructure of Pharo really better. The idea is also to give you a better view of the work we want to structure. We can use this list to discuss during the IRC meeting. let me know what you think http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Projects Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Dollars to documentation
A similar idea was discussed a year ago, but it never took off: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ListOfMonthlyDonators Adrian On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:54 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: yes we should do the same! Stef Interesting action from the rails project: http://pledgie.com/campaigns/14034 Laurent Laffont
Re: [Pharo-project] IRC monthly meeting + project description
I think that's a great idea! Cheers Adrian BTW, for those who don't know the new time zone Paris time: this is UTC/GMT +1 (until end of March) ;) On Dec 3, 2010, at 16:57 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys I imagine that a lot of you are missing a vision or the path of actions in Pharo. So I want to fix that because it will give you a chance to participate and get the vision. I'm starting to produce some slides that describe the challenges we should address I suggest that we start also a monthly IRC chat the first/second tuesday of the month. I propose tuesday 7 at 18h00 or 20h00 Paris time so that other people can join. Le me know what you think about it. Stef
[Pharo-project] [OT] Re: IRC monthly meeting + project description
On Dec 3, 2010, at 19:23 , Henrik Johansen wrote: Also known as CET, all the time ;) only half of the year... there's also CEST sorry, this is getting OT Adrian Cheers, Henry Den 3. des. 2010 kl. 17:15 skrev Adrian Lienhard a...@netstyle.ch: I think that's a great idea! Cheers Adrian BTW, for those who don't know the new time zone Paris time: this is UTC/GMT +1 (until end of March) ;) On Dec 3, 2010, at 16:57 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys I imagine that a lot of you are missing a vision or the path of actions in Pharo. So I want to fix that because it will give you a chance to participate and get the vision. I'm starting to produce some slides that describe the challenges we should address I suggest that we start also a monthly IRC chat the first/second tuesday of the month. I propose tuesday 7 at 18h00 or 20h00 Paris time so that other people can join. Le me know what you think about it. Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] How to update Pharo
Hi Tony, Thanks for noting. The direct URL to the latest unstable PharoCore version is http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core I've updated the wiki page. Adrian On Nov 29, 2010, at 20:29 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: tony you should take the latest unstable image (1.2) you can find it at http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download or https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 stef On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Tony Fleig wrote: In the document at: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute, I find • Download the latest Pharo image from http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2. • Launch the fresh image and load the latest updates by using the option in the menu. The Pharo-1.1 One-Click image has no update option in the menu. Should I be using a different image? How would I go about updating the One-Click image manually? Regards, TF
Re: [Pharo-project] Cannot assign a parameter
Its an artificial restriction. Method arguments are just like temps, i.e., the interpreter does not distinguish between the two; its only the compiler that restricts assignments to arguments (I'm not 100% sure, but I assume that this still holds with Eliot's new closure compiler). I think it would be nice to be able to assign to arguments. In some cases they make for concise and better readable code (I got used to this for instance in Python and JavaScript). For example, consider a method that uses an argument in multiple places and you figure that you need to handle the case in which the argument is nil. You just add a line like: arg := arg ifNil: [ 0 ]. Without argument assignment you would need to create a temp var with a different name and change all usage of the old arg variable. Block args had been writable until the new closure compiler was introduced, which by default disallows arg assignments. I don't remember what the rationale for this change was (?). On the flip side, one has to consider code portability. For projects like Seaside this probably is a no go. But for projects that don't need to be ported I think it would be a worthwhile change. Projects that need to avoid portability troubles with other dialects should use Lint rules (stuff like this is better checked by Lint than the compiler...). I'll also note that this topic was discussed before and some people argued that argument assignments can lead to bad code quality... Cheers, Adrian On Nov 28, 2010, at 11:41 , Max Leske wrote: +1 On 28.11.2010, at 11:26, laurent laffont wrote: I would like to know whether it's a design choice or a technical obstacle. I've seen: Parserassignment: varNode var ':=' expression = AssignmentNode. | loc start | (loc := varNode assignmentCheck: encoder at: prevMark + requestorOffset) = 0 ifTrue: [^self notify: 'Cannot store into' at: loc]. . TempVariableNodeassignmentCheck: encoder at: location ^((self isBlockArg and: [Parser allowBlockArgumentAssignment not]) or: [self isMethodArg]) -- not allowed ! ifTrue: [location] ifFalse: [-1] But no explanation :( Laurent On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, that's true, I've noticed that too. I guess it's on purpose but I have no idea. AFAIK you can't assign a new value to a parameter anywhere in the method not only when using blocks. Maybe it's not possible because there is not really a 'variable' but only a reference. So assigning a new value to the parameter would effectively override the reference. But don't trust me on this Cheers, Max On 28.11.2010, at 10:54, laurent laffont wrote: Sorry foo: n ^[:i| n := n+i. ] vs foo: n |s| s := n. ^[:i| s := s+i. ] Laurent On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote: In the first example you didn't declare 's': foo:n ^ [ :i || s | s:= s+i ] Or did I misunderstand the question? Cheers, Max On 28.11.2010, at 10:30, laurent laffont wrote: Hi, I can't write foo: n ^[:i| s := s+i. ] but foo: n |s| s := n. ^[:i| s := s+i. ] Why ? Cheers, Laurent Laffont Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/
Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Hudson] 'Pharo' activated
What's the status of Hudson? I can help configuring and maintaining it if needed. I was looking at the tests in in the latest PharoCore and what would be very helpful is to know since which update a test is failing to be able to relate the failure to a specific change. It would also allow us to fix tests (or the change that broke them) immediately after an update. This is much more effective than fixing tests half a year later. In the latest core we have: 7908 run, 7826 passes, 50 expected failures, 20 failures, 12 errors, 0 unexpected passes Cheers, Adrian On Sep 15, 2010, at 08:58 , Marcus Denker wrote: On Sep 15, 2010, at 12:09 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: Which targets do you plan to offer? core 1.1.X full 1.1.X one-click 1.1 core 1.2 later: ful 1.2 one-click 1.2 even later: vm for mac, win, linux auto-build Projects: - Opal - Ocean . more as needed -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] How to build a multipart MIME email message
Have you looked at MailMessage? It supports multi-part mails. Cheers, Adrian On Nov 27, 2010, at 16:15 , Tony Fleig wrote: Okay, a follow on question then: Are the MIME-related classes present in Pharo/Seaside intended to allow one to build a MIME document or only to read/parse one? I really do need this functionality, so I will probably build it if it is not there -- probably patterned after what is in VisualWorks (see http://forum.world.st/Multipart-MIME-email-message-HTML-plus-plain-text-td1404392.html .) Thanks again, TF On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: if you build one we would like to integrate it. as test would be gorgeous On Nov 27, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Tony Fleig wrote: Is there an example of how to construct a multi-part (text/plain and text/html) MIME email message in Pharo/Seaside anywhere? Thanks, TF
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] New macintosh vm builder maintainer: Esteban Lorenzano
me too :) Adrian On Nov 22, 2010, at 12:05 , Hernan Wilkinson wrote: I joined Lukas thanks... although I was not in that dinner!!! :-) On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Lukas Renggli reng...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you John for the excellent Mac VMs in the past. Thank you Esteban for the excellent Mac VMs in the future; and for the dinner in Palermo Hollywood last week :-) Cheers, Lukas On 21 November 2010 22:42, John M McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com wrote: Ten years back I took over the role of maintaining the Macintosh VM from John Maloney. Dan Ingalls wrote a letter of responsibility for me, which I accepted and have strived to carry forward. But it's time to assume a different role and I have asked Esteban Lorenzano to take over the build responsibility. Some of you know him already from his role in building Mars for Squeak, his presentations at ESUG conferences, and the awards he has won for his technical innovations. It's been a fun decade three month, lots of versions were created, Apple unlike other other OS providers has driven lots of change and excitement, now they look forward to an OS-X app store, so it's time for someone new and eager to figure out how to address that. Over that decade we've moved from 68040 based machines, thru PowerPC to MacIntel, and from OS-9 thru 7 generations of OS-X. On Jan 1st 2011 (or earlier) I will no longer do builds or officially support the macintosh VM, I will of course help Esteban thru any difficulties in the migration of responsibilities, and I'll forward that letter from Dan, it's steeped with responsibility, a bit of honour, expectations of hours (decades?) of work, and I assure Esteban a great journey. Today for Esteban I consolidated folders of Squeak VM build memories which came to nearly 6GB of stuff, fortunately most of it is obsolete because of the Cocoa os-x V5 rewrite. I thank the community for bearing with me for the good times and the rough times as I fought the daemons of operating system change, no doubt I'll watch how things progress, yet the responsibility for what happens will lie elsewhere. Some close friends have asked am I giving up Squeak Smalltalk? No it's just a change of pace, I'll be around to poke at interesting issues, and at this time I welcome any paid consulting (Smalltalk or iOS), email me if you have leads... Over the years, Viewpoints Research Institute, ESUG and others have provide some funding for this work, I thank them for their contributions. Any message of thanks should be send to my wife of 27 years corde...@mac.com who has diligently support my contributions to the Smalltalk community and as a non computer person always wondered why? For Sophie we had a saying: For the betterment of mankind . For the folks who worked on Smalltalk, Sophie, and the OLPC they know why we do this. To the other VM maintainers I thank them for them for the trust that I would do the right thing, so for Squeak onward we go - === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch -- *Hernán Wilkinson Agile Software Development, Teaching Coaching Mobile: +54 - 911 - 4470 - 7207 email: hernan.wilkin...@10pines.com site: http://www.10Pines.com http://www.10pines.com/*
Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google
On Nov 18, 2010, at 22:58 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Thanks for sharing that with us. We will create a separated mailing-list to see how it works. We can try but I don't think it will work particularly well. Our infrastructure should best support the people that actively work on Pharo so I don't see any problem sending tons of mails to pharo-proj...@... mailing list if this helps. For users who don't want to see all these details there already is a separate list (pharo-us...@...). An additional list has similar drawbacks as an RSS feed. One is less likely to read it. One cannot reply directly to start a discussion (well, we can reply in this new list, but then it gets messy because we start discussing in two separate lists). just my 2 cents... Adrian
Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google
Yes, please keep it! (And mails with code diffs would be great too...) Adrian On Nov 18, 2010, at 18:33 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: +1 Sorry guys this is not optimal but after been against when I see it in squeak, I'm in favor because it helps understanding what is happening. Sorry to be blunt but YOU yes you guys do not look at the bug or bug fixes in general. So often ME myself and I, have to send email about point from the archive to the mailing-list. Often I do not even see that a bug has been posted and YES I have 5 rss feed and I read them all. What is the last time you read the bug archives to see what is happening there? So if you do not read the archive then how can you help? how can we make sure that people are aware? What is the last time you look at the code of the fixes that got integrated? Because if you do not read it how can we do quality control? So if I could I would send the diff of all the package in the mailing-lits as this is done in squeak. Now what we can do to please some of you so far 4, we could create a mailing-list where such mails would be sent. But let us see so far who is really against. Stef Remember that most email client support filters. You can easily create one. Cheers Mariano
Re: [Pharo-project] Monthly Pharo IRC or Chat meeting
+1 On Nov 13, 2010, at 23:23 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi guys I would really like that we get a monthly IRC or Chat discussions to discuss a bit the directions, efforts. What do you think about it? What do you think is a good set up? Stef
Re: [Pharo-project] Repackaging task force
Hi Torsten, Nice to see that we also improve at this front again! The goals make sense. When I recategorized all the tests that were mixed with the code to the global Tests package, I followed your first goal (separate tests and code). The main objective was to be able to make tests unloadable for the #cleanUpForProduction stripping of an image. So I think that splitting up the monolithic Tests package is a good next step because we gain modularity as single packages can be moved out/in of core including their tests (which is currently not possible since the tests can only be loaded/unloaded at once). I've seen your Regex refactoring [3254], which splits the code into three separate Monticello packages: Regex-Core Regex-Tests Regex-Examples That is, there is no package Regex anymore. Looks good (also the removing of the 'VB-' prefix was long overdue). I don't think its a big drawback, but just because it was not mentioned before: the consequence is that we'll end up with more than twice as many Monticello packages in the system. Cheers, Adrian On Nov 12, 2010, at 15:17 , Torsten Bergmann wrote: Hi, after an IRC discussion with Alexandre and Stef yesterday we agreed that it would be good to start working on cleaning up/organizing the packages and get better structure into the system. Goals: - seperate tests, examples, help, ... from code in distinguishable packages - but also have tests, examples, help packages closer to the code - be able to have cleaned up and reproducable package dependencies in the future - provide quality checks to see if packages conform to cleanup rules The abusing of class categories for packaging will not be replaced with a real packaging system in the near future but that shouldnt be a problem so far. I dont know where we will end up, how much time we can devote and what problems we may find but if we wont try we will never find out ... Proposal: = 1. we should have an informal repackaging task force and I would like to invite the following people since they already worked on repackaging/loading/unloading before: Adrian, Pavel, Stef and any other who wants to help 2. since we have to use a naming convention we would like to start with the one from Seaside: http://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/PackageNaming since it is already used and may help us here. Lets see how this turns out. 3. we should start with simple packages and clean them up 4. well formed packages also means we can run quality checks per package. Maybe the hudson infrastructure can help us here to tell if already cleaned up packages continue to be clean. To wet your appetite a little bit I worked in the announcement framework packages. See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3252 As a goodie we have a new help book documenting the framework a little bit. Feel free to try the changesets in a recent 1.2 image and comment. I hope this doesnt start a flamewar on the correct package naming (which we can always change) but help to improve the quality of each package one by one ... Thx T. -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome
Re: [Pharo-project] PharoKernel #12229
On OSX with a recent VM (4.2.5beta1U) the image, PharoKernel-Core-1.2-12229.image, starts but without displaying window. The native menu is populated, but apart from this nothing happens... Adrian On Nov 6, 2010, at 23:11 , Pavel Krivanek wrote: Hi, I uploaded an updated version of PharoKernel. It is now able to load all PharoCore packages (resultant image included). https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/27904/PharoKernel-1.2-12229.zip If you want to use DejaVu fonts, uncomment in the file initCore.st this lines: Gofer it squeaksource: 'DejaVu'; package: 'DejaVuBitmapFonts'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #DejaVuHolder) installFull. StandardFonts restoreDefaultFonts. Please check the generated PharoCore image and open issues for errors because it shows that the packages are missing some initialization code. Cheers, -- Pavel
