Re: [Phono-L] Charleston Record on eBay

[Douglas Houston]

I missed a lot of the messages about the Charleston record. was really
cxurious, too. Could somebody fill me in on which performance/artist (and
possibly label) that was? I've had one on Brunswick for a long time, and
feel that it must be about as authentic an arrangement as ever there was.
Nice record. 

Thanks.


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: phonolist 
> Date: 1/18/2011 11:32:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Charleston Record on eBay
>
> Yeah, I was expecting maybe $40 to $50...
> --Original Message--
> From: Vinyl Visions
> Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
> To: phonolist
> ReplyTo: phonolist
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Charleston Record on eBay
> Sent: Jan 18, 2011 7:25 PM
>
>
>
> Hey John, congratulations - that was a home run...
> Curt 
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?)

[Douglas Houston]

LOL, that's one of the oldest scams in the business. There must have been 
thousands who bit for having won it big. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Vinyl Visions 
> To: 
> Date: 1/14/2011 8:58:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?)
>
>
> Unfortunately, you are right... I have a client who was recently called on 
> the telephone by a guy who claimed she had won the Publisher's Clearing House 
> big prize. All she had to do was to meet the guy at the bank and pay him $500 
> for his commission and then he would give her the check. Fortunately, she did 
> not bite, but who did???
>  
> > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:13:29 -0800
> > From: hexaph...@sbcglobal.net
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?)
> > 
> > The sad thing is there probably are enough stupid Americans to provide 
> > these people an incentive.  It also highlights the value of this list and 
> > the poeple on it.  Having such a resource is invaluable.
> >  
> > Ron
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 1/14/11, bruce78...@comcast.net  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: bruce78...@comcast.net 
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?)
> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> > Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 2:53 PM
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, in Nigeria you wear a badge of honor depending on how many stupid 
> > Americans you are able to swindle out of as much money as possible in these 
> > fraudulent schemes. 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Vinyl Visions"  
> > To: phono-l@ oldcrank .org 
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 3:16:45 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?) 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ron, 
> > 
> > I think that there is some Nigerian prince that has one also... It's free - 
> > all you need to do is send him your checking account information, a VISA 
> > card number for reference and a certified check for the import duty of 
> > $350.00 (much cheaper than the guy in Italy) :) 
> > 
> > > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:56:09 -0800 
> > > From: hexaphone @ sbcglobal .net 
> > > To: phono-l@ oldcrank .org 
> > > Subject: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all. On one of the phonograph forums I had a "Wanted" notice 
> > > indicating I was looking for a Victrola Orthophonic 8-9 motor. I received 
> > > a response from a Brian Kidd. His email is brain1@ blumail .org . This 
> > > one has all the red flags waving. He keeps spelling his own name 
> > > incorrectly for one. He is located in Italy and wants a money gram or 
> > > western union payment and his pricing is way out of line i.e. not even 
> > > reasonable. He wanted 690 euro or more than $900 for a motor of which, of 
> > > course, he had " in stock. Playing along, I asked for pictures. None have 
> > > been provided (surprise). Anyone else familar with this individual? I 
> > > would assume he is responding to other people looking for items. Just for 
> > > a final amusement, I sent him an email stating I would most certainly 
> > > send a western union for the full amount once I received the product. I 
> > > am waiting for my reply. Beware. 
> > > 
> > > Ron 
> > > ___ 
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> > 
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Re: [Phono-L] Spelling Errors

[Douglas Houston]

This is a private thing betwixt Peter and me, but remember when an  editor
once turned some of my copy inside out? 


> [Original Message] 
> From: Peter Fraser 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 1/12/2011 11:03:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Spelling Errors
>
> That's funny, "Break Parts" is how my spellchecker corrects "Brice Paris"!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> -- Peter
> pjfra...@mac.com
>
> On Jan 12, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Vinyl Visions  wrote:
>
> > 
> > No problem, Jerry. Spelling and the correct usage of English words are
apparently outdated subjects, as witnessed by most of the internet. I
recently went to look for some car parts and found what I was looking for
under "Break Parts".
> > 
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:03:47 -0800
> >> From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com
> >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Spelling Errors
> >> 
> >> I sent in a rather lengthy post about the importance of provenance and
spelled 
> >> it incorrectly. Thanks for all the gentle but not public corrections.
In spite 
> >> of my poor spelling, I hope my point was clear. We have a great hobby.
Jerry 
> >> Blais
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
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> > 
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Re: [Phono-L] Spelling Errors

[Douglas Houston]

One of my pet peeves is the atrocious spelling that I see so frequently.
It's so bad, that I just can never allow myself to get  bent out of shape
over it.

In my early grade school grades, I'd find myself in a spelling bee, and
also found myself hanging on until the last, some times. I had found
something I could excel in, so I followed it quite a ways up. I don't think
that I ever went to any finals, but the teacher never failed to show her
delight for my talent. So, that is the basis for my attitudes. 

Today, I find myself writing articles for a collector car magazine, as well
as articles for one of the Phono society mags, now. A few years ago,  I was
at an alumni reunion. It's an enginnering college, and one of the faculty
happened to see my name on my car, and recognized it. He was from the
English department and had seen one of my articles. We had a very pleasant
chat, down n town, at my car (It was a Classic Car tour).I told him that,
had I ever been told while I was there in school, in composition courses,
that I'd be writing magazine articles some day, I'd never been able to
believe it...but here I am! . 


> [Original Message]
> From: DeeDee Blais 
> To: 
> Date: 1/12/2011 10:04:05 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Spelling Errors
>
> I sent in a rather lengthy post about the importance of provenance and
spelled 
> it incorrectly.  Thanks for all the gentle but not public corrections. 
In spite 
> of my poor spelling, I hope my point was clear.  We have a great hobby.
Jerry 
> Blais
>
>
>   
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Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo

[Douglas Houston]

This is gettin' so deep, we'll need an end loader!


> [Original Message]
> From: john robles 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 1/2/2011 10:02:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo
>
> I wasn't gonna bring it up, but I have it on good authority that Ada
Jones ran a meth lab when she wasn't busy recording. Billy Murray was her
delivery stooge. The real reason he had to "get out and get under, get out
and get under" was to dodge the G-men's bullets.
> John Robles
>
> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, bruce78...@comcast.net  wrote:
>
> From: bruce78...@comcast.net 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 6:50 PM
>
> http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ggbain.26646/?co=ggbain 
>
> Good Point, I wonder what Ada Jones was really cookin up in that frying
pan. 
>
> Bruce 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Vinyl Visions"  
> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org 
> Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2011 9:47:44 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo 
>
>
> Hi Bruce, 
> You can't trust Government websites... apparently this is a major
coverup, since they doctored that photo. 
>
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 02:42:38 + 
> > From: bruce78...@comcast.net 
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org 
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo 
> > 
> > http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ggbain.27824/?co=ggbain 
> > 
> > Quite so, heh heh 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "john robles"  
> > To: "Antique Phonograph List"  
> > Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2011 9:30:29 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo 
> > 
> > Pictures may not lie but people do! You're very clever and
entertaining! 
> > John 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Vinyl Visions  wrote: 
> > 
> > From: Vinyl Visions  
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman - Death Photo 
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org 
> > Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 4:45 PM 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >From a previous post - "Irving Kaufman didn't die til January 1976.
This pic is much earlier." 
> > 
> > You guys are missing an important couple of details... look at this pic
again. 
> > http://www.preservemymoney.com/pictures/Irving Kaufman.jpg 
> > 
> > The picture has a date that is hand written on the side and in the
background there is a calendar on the wall dated 1976... 
> > Pictures don't lie! 
> > 
> > ___ 
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>
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Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman

[Douglas Houston]

The tiing in the background looks like, possibly. an upright piano with a 
bedspread over it. Kaufman looked too young in that picture to have been taken 
at his death. A google search will give you a very good picture of him at the 
height of his career. 

. From the earliest days I got turned loose on the family Victrola, I enjoyed 
Kaufman's recordings immensely. My mother and aunt, who owned the Victrola at 
the time, could never figure out why I liked all that OLD music. I'd play that 
Victrola for hours without bothering anyone, because it was stored in a walk-in 
closet. My favorite recording of his was: "You'd Be Surprised", on Columbia. He 
had a nice, cheerful wrinkle nin his voice, and that was what put him over so 
well on his performances.

I'm going to do a writeup for Tim for ITG, about that Victor's influence on me. 
I'm still putting another article together for him, and burning the candle at 
both ends, doing it. 


> [Original Message]
> From: john robles 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 12/30/2010 11:00:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman
>
> And why wold his other arm be bent with the fist against his head? I think 
> he's yawning.
>
> --- On Thu, 12/30/10, Michael and Suellen Funk  wrote:
>
> From: Michael and Suellen Funk 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 7:10 PM
>
> With such a tight grasp in his hand?
> - Original Message - From: "Vinyl Visions" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman
>
>
> > 
> > That's Irving's death photo...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 18:45:45 +
> >> From: bruce78...@comcast.net
> >> To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org
> >> CC: phonol...@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Irving Kaufman
> >> 
> >> http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ggbain.27824/?co=ggbain 
> >> Here is Irving Kaufman taking a snooze. 
> >> 
> >> Bruce ___
> >> Phono-L mailing list
> >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >   ___
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Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Where to buy Grill Cloth

[Douglas Houston]

I hope that John hasn't discontinued the pattern. It's so close for so many
early radios and record players, like the Credenza. Why don't you contact
him and see if he might still have some on hand. He needs to be made aware
of the possible market for it from we phonograph nuts. He's one fine
person. I used to see him nand his wife at the Elgin meets, and he sold
grille cloth like crazy. It sort of surprises me that more of the
phonograph-only crowd never knew of his grille cloths. 


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 12/29/2010 5:56:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Where to buy Grill Cloth
>
> I believe you are referring to pattern #60, but it appears that one has
been discontinued, because I cannot find it in any of his price lists.
Unless you were referring to a different one. 

Bruce 
- Original Message - 
From: cdh...@earthlink.net 
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org 
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:43:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Where to buy Grill Cloth 

Just did an answer to this for someone else. It's 
http://www.grillecloth.com. It's John Okolowicz, in Ambler, Pa. His 
website has pictures of all of his patterns, in color. Forgot his pattern 
number, but the cloth is a dead ringer for the stuff used in the Credenza, 
and many other radios, as well. He did have one; a gold diamond pattern 
that was absolutely the one on the Victor Electrolas, and several other 
early RCA radios used. The stuff is beautiful. 

Doug. Houston Ortonville, Michigan 

Original Message: 
- 
From: bruce78...@comcast.net 
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 13:56:58 + (UTC) 
To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org 
Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Where to buy Grill Cloth 





Can someone please direct me to the proper supplier where I can buy a 16 X 
8 piece of Grill Cloth for my Victor VV-1-90 Table Model Orthophonic ? 

I just bought a piece on line from a Phono Supplier who advertised Grill 
Cloth and specializes in phonograph restoration, what I received was a 
piece of shiny gold non-porous 
dress fabric that I could never ever use on this small orthophonic era 
Victor or any other machine for that matter. I told this fellow exactly 
what I wanted and what machine it was for. I even sent him a video of the 
VV-1-90. The grill cloth on the 1-90 is extremely close to the type used on 
a Victor Credenza, so that kind of Grill Cloth would be acceptable as well. 
Thanks for your help. 


B 
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Re: [Phono-L] Cataloguing records

[Douglas Houston]

Some years ago, I built a Paradox table of my Victor records. I listed them
by catalogue number. The second column is the two titles, the third, the
artist(s). Listing them by artist might have been a better setup, but
listing by catalogue number has been good for my purpose. 

There will ultimately be one for Columbia, then Brunswick, Vocalion, etc.
The major toil in this is the Victor listings for me.

There are other databases that replace Paradox, but diong it again; I'd
list the records the same way on any other program. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Andrew Baron 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 12/13/2010 12:38:57 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Cataloguing records
>
> Are you using a particular software that's geared for cataloguing, or  
> standard applications like Word or Excel?
>
> I think this may have been discussed on this forum before, but perhaps  
> there are current favorite methods.
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Dennis Back wrote:
>
> > But I had to stop bidding on record auctions because I kept  
> > winning the same records over and over again. Did it again 2  
> > weeks ago.
> > 
> >
> > I solved this problem by starting and keeping a data base of what I  
> > bought.  With records, I list title and number.  If I see something  
> > I might want in an auction, I just do a "control F" and it will find  
> > (or not find) the item in my data base.
> >
> > I know it's hard to go BACK and enter all your records and  
> > cylinders, but you can start now with new acquisitions.  And you can  
> > keep a "wanted" list on the data base, too. When you find that item,  
> > just delete the word "wanted" and replace it with the date bought  
> > and price paid and then save it. .
> >
> > Works for me.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer alert

[Douglas Houston]

Sorry about the bad referral. It won't go out on this computer.  


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 12/3/2010 8:12:38 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer  alert
>
>
>
>
> One of my least favorite sellers with an honesty and knowledge score I
believe to be ZERO has put up a Model D Reproducer on eBay.
> Check out  170574734251
> The reproducer is a collection of damaged parts as far as I can tell. Why
would someone file down a brass body?
> The stylus bar looks like a C bar and not a D ball type desired to gently
play brown wax Concert records.
> The listing description says it all.
> Best wishes to all,
> Al
>
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer alert

[Douglas Houston]

The listing for this is: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170574734251&ru=http%3A%2
F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2Fi.html%3F_nkw%3D170574734251%26_sacat%3D0%26LH_Auct
ion%3D1%26_odkw%3DBroadcast%2Bconsoles%26_osacat%3D0%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m2
70.l1313%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 12/3/2010 8:12:38 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer  alert
>
>
>
>
> One of my least favorite sellers with an honesty and knowledge score I
believe to be ZERO has put up a Model D Reproducer on eBay.
> Check out  170574734251
> The reproducer is a collection of damaged parts as far as I can tell. Why
would someone file down a brass body?
> The stylus bar looks like a C bar and not a D ball type desired to gently
play brown wax Concert records.
> The listing description says it all.
> Best wishes to all,
> Al
>
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?

[Douglas Houston]

I also believe that RCA's pre-grooved discs were purely vinyl.  I bought a
box of new ones a few years ago, and tried to make a recording off of the
sir on the RCA 381 phono combo I have. The result was, that there was a
recording on the disc (using the proper styli, of course), but since the
disc was hardened from age. I had to drive the slats out of that pichup
head to get a signal on the disc. 

The only way to get a decent disc recording  would be to get some freshly
lacquered blank discs, or get one of the old disc recorders and cut a
master on the big wax cake, and ...let's not be silly.
 I have several blank discs. I've tried to cut a new recording on one, but
the groove is so screechy, it's ridiculous to even try, and that's on a
Presto K-8!

Anyway, the stories tell that, since shellac had been a critical material
during WW II, Victor and a few others began to resort to vinyl as a
substitute. Vinyl is cheaper that shellac. and made quiter surfaces, so RCA
pressed quite a few of their classical records on transparent red vinyl, 
and called them "Red Seal Deluxe" and charged double the price of the
sheelac discs. It wasn't long after that that Dr. Goldmark (CBS) launched
his LP discs. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Wright 
> To: Phono L 
> Date: 11/20/2010 12:01:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
>
>
> Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl
in every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's
records.  And those were what, 1929?  Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other
branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other,
and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but
they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl.  Meanwhile, the V-Discs
from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. 
Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember.
>
>
> > From: cdh...@earthlink.net
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
> > 
> > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP
> > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those
Program
> > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was
supposed to
> > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where
the
> > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were
made
> > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been
around,
> > in one form or another. 
>
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?

[Douglas Houston]

I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP
discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those Program
Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed to
have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where the
Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were made
of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been around,
in one form or another. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Wright 
> To: Phono L 
> Date: 11/19/2010 12:53:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
>
>
> Yup, the vinyl modern records are made from has been around way longer
than Victor picture discs, and BFGoodrich got it to be fully functional in
1926, see below:
> PVC was accidentally discovered at least twice in the 19th century, first
in 1835 by Henri Victor Regnault and in 1872 by Eugen Baumann. On both
occasions the polymer appeared as a white solid inside flasks of vinyl
chloride that had been left exposed to sunlight. In the early 20th century
the Russian chemist Ivan Ostromislensky and Fritz Klatte of the German
chemical company Griesheim-Elektron both attempted to use PVC (polyvinyl
chloride) in commercial products, but difficulties in processing the rigid,
sometimes brittle polymer blocked their efforts. Waldo Semon and the B.F.
Goodrich Company developed a method in 1926 to plasticize PVC by blending
it with various additives. The result was a more flexible and more easily
processed material that soon achieved widespread commercial use.
> Wiki can be a wonderful (if not reliably trustworthy) thing!
>
>
>
> > From: esrobe...@hotmail.com
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:49:04 +
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
> > 
> > 
> > I think the Victor picture discs had something more durable than what
the HotW discs used.  It's like a clear/hazy vinyl surface, easy to see and
get a feel for if you have a broken Victor PD.  Vinyl certainly existed in
the 30's, didn't it?
> > 
> > 
> > > From: maxbu...@wowway.com
> > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:42:03 -0600
> > > Subject: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
> > > 
> > > I was under the impression that vinyl came along some time after
picture 
> > > discs came on the scene. I always thought they were laminated with
Durium, 
> > > the clear surface that coated Hit of the Week records.
> > > Bruce M. 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Phono-L mailing list
> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >   
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record

[Douglas Houston]

Yep, somebody had a sense of humor, all right. It would have been tricky.
The groove pitch had to be set to 1/3 the normal pitch, and each groove
start 120 degrees apart around the periphery of the disc. The grooves then,
are interwoven (in a sense of the word). The six selections on the disc are
chosen for varied types of music. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Bob V. 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/27/2010 8:39:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
>
> Hi Bruce,
> I learned something new today.  I've never heard or seen one of those 
> records before.   We can all speculate as to how it was done but I'd
rather 
> know who had the imagination to think up the idea.  Must have ben a hot
shot 
> in the Victor marketing department.
> Bob V
>
> -Original Message- 
> From: bruce78...@comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:52 AM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPct-CiZK4
>
> Here is the Conundrum being demonstrated on Youtube.
>
> Bruce
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:50:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
>
> There seems to be lot of conjecture about exactly how many of those
records
> that Victor made. I always hear of the Conundrum, but never have
seen/heard
> it. I have the "Puzzle Record", which has three starts on each of two
> sides. It's a 10 inch. Rust's "Victor Master Book" tells thyat some (not
> all) of the tracks were done by the Mayfair Orchestra (England?). Audio
> quality is very good. The stylus sure does go across the record in a
hurry!
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Vinyl Visions 
> > To: 
> > Date: 10/27/2010 12:06:16 AM
> > Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm hoping that someone on the list might have some info on Victor
> Puzzle Records. I picked one up the other day titled: "The Conundrum -
What
> Should I Play Next?". Anyone know how many of these were made or how
scarce
> they might be? I have only seen two of these - the one that I bought and
> another by Jimmie Rodgers. Were these a demo of the then current
> technology, or were they made for some other purpose? The selections on
> this record are four different types of music, which play randomly,
> depending on where or when you place the needle - very strange...
> >
> > Curt
> >
> > ___
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> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>
>
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>
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record

[Douglas Houston]

There seems to be lot of conjecture about exactly how many of those records
that Victor made. I always hear of the Conundrum, but never have seen/heard
it. I have the "Puzzle Record", which has three starts on each of two
sides. It's a 10 inch. Rust's "Victor Master Book" tells thyat some (not
all) of the tracks were done by the Mayfair Orchestra (England?). Audio
quality is very good. The stylus sure does go across the record in a hurry!


> [Original Message]
> From: Vinyl Visions 
> To: 
> Date: 10/27/2010 12:06:16 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
>
>
>
>  I'm hoping that someone on the list might have some info on Victor
Puzzle Records. I picked one up the other day titled: "The Conundrum - What
Should I Play Next?". Anyone know how many of these were made or how scarce
they might be? I have only seen two of these - the one that I bought and
another by Jimmie Rodgers. Were these a demo of the then current
technology, or were they made for some other purpose? The selections on
this record are four different types of music, which play randomly,
depending on where or when you place the needle - very strange...
>  
> Curt
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Help with reproducer ID

[Douglas Houston]

Definitely  RE-45. The identical pickup head cover is used on the RE-75,
but is done in a dull gray, rather than gloss black as on the RE-45. This
pickup covr was used on the RE-45 and 75 only. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/20/2010 5:22:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Help with reproducer ID
>
> That's from a Victor RE-45 or RE-75, most likely.  It's the standard 
> horseshoe magnetic pickup that was used on many early electric machines
of 
> the 1929 - 32 period.  The drawn metal cover would usually be embossed
with 
> the appropriate logo for whatever set maker was using it.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dennis Back" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:09 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Help with reproducer ID
>
>
> Can anyone identify this reproducer and what machine is goes on?
>
> I know it's from a Victor machine, as it obviously has the Nipper. It
also 
> says "Victor" under the Berliner phono, so I assume it is from the USA, a 
> pre-dates the RCA takeover.
>
> http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/Dustcollectors/vicelrep1.jpg
> http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/Dustcollectors/vicelrep2.jpg
> http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l523/Dustcollectors/vicelrep3.jpg
>
> Thanks for looking,
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Phono-L] GE Induction Disk Phonograph Motor

[Douglas Houston]

If you still have it at this moment, I'll go for it. Let me know if I'm the
"winner". Thanks. 


> [Original Message]
> From: DeeDee Blais 
> To: 
> Date: 8/21/2010 9:27:46 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] GE Induction Disk Phonograph Motor
>
> Anyone need a free electric motor for a phonograph?  It's an induction
disk 
> motor for a phonograph.  All you pay is shipping.  I have no idea if it
work or 
> the age of the motor.  With a family wedding in less than a week, there's
no 
> time for photos.  $20 should cover shipping.  Thanks, Jerry Blais
>
>
>   
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Re: [Phono-L] Off-Topic -- Looking for early patent help in France

[Douglas Houston]

I'd say no. The Credenza has the full size re-entrant horn, and the
Consolette has (as I understand), a simple, straight horn. 

The Consolette will probably blow any previous Victor model out of the
water, with sound level and, of course, frequency response, but the low end
won't be there, as it is in the Credenza. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Chris Kocsis 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 6/2/2010 9:32:22 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Off-Topic -- Looking for early patent help in France
>
> My apologies for this request unrelated to phonographs, but I'm looking 
> for someone in France who is able to look up a patent number (205058) 
> and tell me what the device is that it refers to.  It is probably 
> 1920s-30s.  My hope is that there is a phono collector there who knows 
> how to look this up (online patents don't go back that far) or can tell 
> me how to do it. 
>
> Phono question: Does a Victor Consolette sound about as good as a
Credenza?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
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[Phono-L] FW: Brunswick Phono from thr 800's.....!

[Douglas Houston]

--- Original Message - 
From: Douglas Houston 
To: phon...@oldcranl.net
Sent: 4/14/2010 10:29:13 PM 
Subject: Brunswick Phono from thr 800's.!


Here's a Brunswick  console from probably the 19 20's that is worth looking 
into..?

http://flint.craigslist.org/atq/1682269807.html



cdh...@earthlink.net
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Re: [Phono-L] Craigslist Rant

[Douglas Houston]

There was a jerk in Michigan;one of thr founders of the Michigan Antique
Phono Society, who'd buy a radio out of your hands if you wer examining it
to buy it. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Bruce Mercer 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/11/2010 7:07:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Craigslist Rant
>
> I don't know... but I must be one of the biggest fools on this forum.
> Whatever happened to the integrity of a verbal handshake? There have been
a
> few times where somebody came behind me and offered more, one time a LOT
> more, (Zenith Stratosphere) but then there was that verbal handshake and
> people have always been true to their word and followed through. Maybe I'm
> just lucky or naieve or both.
> Bruce (still riding *on* the turnip truck:-)
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Craigslist Rant

[Douglas Houston]

I  haven't been followi ng this thread, becauise I have been hospitalized
for a week.

I've had this happen with a vintage car. The lesson I learned, was to go to
the seller, pay for the item, and take it home.   I have never, since the
car deal, left the item with the seller, whether it was paid for or   not.

Another thought. If you pad for the Victrola.,at the time of visit tto the
seller, the Victrola was your property, and the seller had a duty to
deliver it to you. I've seen phonographs advertised on CL, and I made a bee
line to tje seller,  with the money. In the most rcent instance, I had been
outbid on eBay, for the same RCA phono for  several hundred bucks more, and
was in a rush to get it.  

I don't know how far you were from Sna Clemente, But, I'd have been on the
road  immediately, dropnping everything I'd been doing. TheXIV does look
good nin American Walnut. I have one that I'm restoring. I bought it at the
AWA meet a few years ago for 200 bucks. 


> [Original Message]
> From: john robles 
> To: 
> Date: 4/11/2010 2:12:51 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Craigslist Rant
>
> Hello all
> I need to rant.  I have been made a sucker. I sold my nice mahogany
Victrola XVI in order to buy a Victrola XIV in beautifully grained American
Walnut on Craigslist. The deal was made a few days ago (all documented in
email) and I was set to drive down to San Clemente tomorrow to get it.
Tonight the seller writes me and says "Hi John, I'm sorry to say this but I
have another offer on the 
> Victrola for $600. The collector thAt looked at it said it has an 
> uncommon walnut finish. Anyway, I am giving him until next weekend to 
> pay/pickup. I'm sorry for any inconvience this may have cause you. Good 
> luck to you."
> So I sold my nice XVI for nothing. And the seller reneged on a done deal
because she got a better offer (by the way, her ad asked for $450 and I
agreed to pay that). The other collector is going to find out that it isn't
Circassian, and I hope he renegs on her. I reported her to Craigslist for
gogn back on the deal. Obviously I am very unhappy about this. I just
wanted to vent.
> Thank you for listening! Now I have to find a nice victrola to replace my
XVI...
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Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1

[Douglas Houston]

I was among those who were shocked by the selling price of that Capehart,
and I hope like crazy, that it's in loving hands. 

The Capehart I have is a 114 N2 (?), which is 78 only, and with a
Pfanstiehl pickup. I bought it in the seventies, and the chassis needs
re-capping like nothing I've ever done!  Mine has the 6L6 amplifier, and I
confess, I've never looked to see what speaker is in it. 

Long ago, I was at a radio meet, and a guy was toting in,  one of the
Capehart amplifiers, with the 2A3's and all. I asked the price, and he said
$2.00!  No hesitation, I bought it. I am strange at times.


> [Original Message]
> From: Bruce Mercer 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/31/2010 12:55:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1
>
>
>
> Judging from the price paid and looking at what the buyer has previously
> bought, I would say the Capehart is in good hands. I've seen that WE
speaker
> go for almost 3K. A 41-E changer (not w/L.P.) went for about 1300.00 a
> couple weeks ago. I bought an identical one for about 300.00 three or four
> years ago. One of my Capeharts is the 414-N (78's only) and operates
smooth
> as silk, once it's adjusted properly. I did go through a few junk records
to
> get it that way however. With the GE pickup it is extremely kind to some
> very expensive records I play on it. I reserve the 405-E for just the
> occaisonal play as it 'is' hard on records because of the weight of the
> pickup. The 1935 cabinet is more heavily built (if that is possible) and
> just has a charm of its own. Each machine sounds spectacular.
>  I think the one recently sold was worth every penny considering very few
> were made that played
>  33 1/3 albums. I also have to say that is a feature I would not pay a
> premium for. Maybe, finally the collecting public has awakened from their
> sleep or lack of knowlege of these wonderful phonographs and save them
from
> gutting and having their parts end up across the Pacific or here, for the
> almighty $.
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1
>
>
> > Well, the Capehart sold for $6100.00. I had planned on bidding, but the
> > bids topped 2 grand before I would have bid. I only hope that the buyer
> > treats the set with the affection that the price suggests.
> >
> > I sort of think that it had a little too much publicity in these posts.
>
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Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1

[Douglas Houston]

Well, the Capehart sold for $6100.00. I had planned on bidding, but the
bids topped 2 grand before I would have bid. I only hope that the buyer
treats the set with the affection that the price suggests.

I sort of think that it had a little too much publicity in these posts. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/23/2010 8:38:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1
>
> Abe, the Capehart radio/phonos made from the mid 1930s to about 1950 
> were among the very finest, most exclusive models available in the USA. 
> With very few exceptions such as the D-22 and the QU-8 which actually
used a 
> Capehart 16E changer and the postwar Berkshire series, ALL of which are
very 
> rare, RCA had nothing to compare.  Aside from a very few other specialty 
> makers such as E.H. Scott and McMurdo Silver, there were were no 
> radio/phonos available in the USA that compared with the Capeharts. 
That's 
> why these Capeharts are held in such high regard by collectors today.
>
> There were two common series made during these years, the 100 and the 
> 400 series (model number were in these ranges).  The 100 series was the 
> cheaper one with smaller amplifiers and less elaborate cabinetry.  The
400 
> series looked similar to the 100 series, but they usually (not always)
had 
> more and/or larger amplifiers and more expensive speakers and more
elaborate 
> cabinets.  There was also a much rarer 300 series which were "tall-boy" 
> cabinets with the components stacked vertically, and the EXTREMELY RARE
500 
> series which were the SUPER deluxe models available usually by special, 
> customized order only.  All these series used the exclusive Capehart 
> flipover record changers.  The early (prewar) record changers were the
16E 
> models (several variations), and the postwar changers were the 41E models 
> which are easily identifiable by their chromed, tubular tonearms.  All
these 
> changers played only 78rpm until the 41E-2 model which came out about
late 
> 1948.  This model had interchangeable TONEARMS (not just headshells) that 
> provided for either 78rpm or for microgroove 33rpm playback.  The 41E-2
was 
> made for only a short time (probably less than 2 years) before Capehart 
> discontinued the flipover changers completely and went to cheaper
drop-type 
> changers, most of which were furnished by VM (Voice of Music).  These
later 
> Capeharts (starting around 1950) used a different numbering system and
were 
> cheapened considerably from the early 100 and 400 series.  These later 
> Capeharts are not very collectible and do not bring high prices from 
> collectors.  The B-1002-F model that you have mentioned in Arizona is an 
> example of one of these later, post 1950 models.  It would probably bring 
> around $200 in nice condition.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Abe Feder" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1
>
>
> > Greg, I have noted that you and several members like the Capehart units
. 
> > I
> > have seen a few of them here in Arizona from time to time.-I know
nothing
> > about them. There is one for sale now on Craigslist a model # B-1002-F.
> > Owner says that it has been in his family for 60 years. He has original
> > instruction manual as well as bill of sale and is asking $750.00. Any
> > comments about it or price?
> > Thx Abe Feder
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Greg Bogantz  
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I realize that electronic phonos are a bit off-topic for this forum,
but
> >> for those of you who can really appreciate a fine Capehart, here's a
rare
> >> find: A 414N-1 with the VERY hard to find 41E-2 flipover changer:
> >>
> >> eBay Item #150426006960
> >>
> >> This is the last version of the 41E changer that has the
interchangeable
> >> tonearms and plays both 78 and 33rpm microgroove records, circa 1949.
I'm
> >> posting this here to try to rescue this unit from the grimy clutches
of 
> >> the
> >> Western Weenies who are going to buy this console ONLY to rip out the
> >> Western Electric speaker from it so that they can mount it under glass 
> >> and
> >> drool over it. Note that there is already a bidder question posted
about
> >> wanting to see the speaker. Then they'll sell off the N-1 power amp
with 
> >> the
> >> 2A3 output triodes to some golden ear tube yahoos. Then they'll simply 
> >> junk
> >> the rest of the console or turn it into a liquor cabinet. That would
be a
> >> particular shame since this is appears to be a really nice and complete
> >> original example of a fine, RARE Capehart. Trust me: the 41E-2
machines 
> >> are
> >> RARE! Let's see one of our Phono-L members give this complete unit the 
> >> home
> >> it deserves. This model is particularly easy to enjoy while you're not
> >> playing records as it has t
> >>  he modern FM radio band which means you can actually listen to good 
> >> radio

Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1

[Douglas Houston]

I'm with ya all  the way, Bill. I've passed the 80 mark, and while I can get 
around slowly, I haven't lost my zeal for electric phonographs. I'm just 
finishing a 1940 RCA High Fidelity record player model R-98. There are more 
things in process, like a Victor Electrola 12-25. 


> [Original Message]
> From: William Buchanan 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/23/2010 8:54:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T:  Capehart 414N-1
>
> After reading the messages below I had to see what this looked like.
> I must admit that I have never seen this model before.
> Once I opened the item number I was in love!!
> Anybody that would do harm to this unit is crazy.
> It is a shame that people would do this to such piece, but we have all seen 
> it happened.
> It would be a shame to loose such a piece for some body with more money than 
> brains.
> I hope who ever buys this does not rip it apart.
>
> I have been very unlucky with bidding on electric phonographs in the past I 
> now have 4 different phonographs that all were supposed to be in working 
> order but once I opened the boxes I found out that I had been taken.
> There are too many people on ebay that will rip you off and they know that it 
> cost too much to return the items so they can say what ever they want.
> I would love to have a working phonograph from the 1940's but I only have 
> ebay as  a way to look for this stuff and after 4 times of being ripped off I 
> won't do it again.
>
> In case you are wondering why I only use ebay, it  is because I am a disabled 
> vet and I am mostly confined to a bed and a wheel chair. I am not able to get 
> out much to even hunt down leads or go to estate sales.
>
> I do have two table top Victor and one Edison Floor model, but I would one 
> day love to find a wooden table top phonograph with radio.
> It is possible that one of the four units I have purchased may be able to be 
> repair but I am not able to do that type of work because of the injuries.
>
> Does anybody live in Lehigh Acres Florida that works on these?
>
> Thanks and lets hope that the Cape Hart finds the nice home that it deserves.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/23/10, Douglas Houston  wrote:
>
> From: Douglas Houston 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] O/T:  Capehart 414N-1
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 6:20 PM
>
> I'm with you all the way, Greg. I'll possibly bid on this thing, but I'll
> most certainly get sniped out to outer space, and lose it. There are just
> too many points of profit here for the hogs that look for them. Lately, I
> have bid on a couple og things that might be nice, but was sniped far
> beyond the bidding level. 
>
> I've found that Craigslist is far and beyond the abominable eBay. 
>
> My Capehart is similar, but different cabinet, P-P 6L6, and 78 only
> changer. I'm trying to get a DVD for you, but this stupid computer won't
> copy it. 
>
> I have a Capehart 2A3 amp laying among my shrunken skulls.  
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Greg Bogantz 
> > To: 
> > Date: 3/23/2010 5:46:56 PM
> > Subject: [Phono-L] O/T:  Capehart 414N-1
> >
> > I realize that electronic phonos are a bit off-topic for this forum, but
> for those of you who can really appreciate a fine Capehart, here's a rare
> find: A 414N-1 with the VERY hard to find 41E-2 flipover changer:
> >
> > eBay Item #150426006960
> >
> > This is the last version of the 41E changer that has the interchangeable
> tonearms and plays both 78 and 33rpm microgroove records, circa 1949. I'm
> posting this here to try to rescue this unit from the grimy clutches of the
> Western Weenies who are going to buy this console ONLY to rip out the
> Western Electric speaker from it so that they can mount it under glass and
> drool over it. Note that there is already a bidder question posted about
> wanting to see the speaker. Then they'll sell off the N-1 power amp with
> the 2A3 output triodes to some golden ear tube yahoos. Then they'll simply
> junk the rest of the console or turn it into a liquor cabinet. That would
> be a particular shame since this is appears to be a really nice and
> complete original example of a fine, RARE Capehart. Trust me: the 41E-2
> machines are RARE! Let's see one of our Phono-L members give this complete
> unit the home it deserves. This model is particularly easy to enjoy while
> you're not playing records as it has t
> >  he modern FM radio band which means you can actually listen to good
> radio programs on it. In glorious monophonic sound, of course. I don't have
> a problem with collectors mounting thing

Re: [Phono-L] O/T: Capehart 414N-1

[Douglas Houston]

I'm with you all the way, Greg. I'll possibly bid on this thing, but I'll
most certainly get sniped out to outer space, and lose it. There are just
too many points of profit here for the hogs that look for them. Lately, I
have bid on a couple og things that might be nice, but was sniped far
beyond the bidding level. 

I've found that Craigslist is far and beyond the abominable eBay. 

My Capehart is similar, but different cabinet, P-P 6L6, and 78 only
changer. I'm trying to get a DVD for you, but this stupid computer won't
copy it. 

I have a Capehart 2A3 amp laying among my shrunken skulls.  


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: 
> Date: 3/23/2010 5:46:56 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] O/T:  Capehart 414N-1
>
> I realize that electronic phonos are a bit off-topic for this forum, but
for those of you who can really appreciate a fine Capehart, here's a rare
find: A 414N-1 with the VERY hard to find 41E-2 flipover changer:
>
> eBay Item #150426006960
>
> This is the last version of the 41E changer that has the interchangeable
tonearms and plays both 78 and 33rpm microgroove records, circa 1949. I'm
posting this here to try to rescue this unit from the grimy clutches of the
Western Weenies who are going to buy this console ONLY to rip out the
Western Electric speaker from it so that they can mount it under glass and
drool over it. Note that there is already a bidder question posted about
wanting to see the speaker. Then they'll sell off the N-1 power amp with
the 2A3 output triodes to some golden ear tube yahoos. Then they'll simply
junk the rest of the console or turn it into a liquor cabinet. That would
be a particular shame since this is appears to be a really nice and
complete original example of a fine, RARE Capehart. Trust me: the 41E-2
machines are RARE! Let's see one of our Phono-L members give this complete
unit the home it deserves. This model is particularly easy to enjoy while
you're not playing records as it has t
>  he modern FM radio band which means you can actually listen to good
radio programs on it. In glorious monophonic sound, of course. I don't have
a problem with collectors mounting things under glass to admire, but to
destroy a perfectly good, working piece of fine equipment just to preserve
one part of it really grinds my gears. I'd bid on it, but I don't have room
for it.
>
> Greg Bogantz
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Re: [Phono-L] Passing of Debra Vollema

[Douglas Houston]

I'd like to add my condolences to you, George. You've had more than your
share of sadness, having lost Brandon's mother and Father. I hope that the
future holds even a small bit of happiness, somehow, for you and Brandon.
Keep that chin up!!!


> [Original Message]
> From: George 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 2/12/2010 1:19:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Passing of Debra Vollema
>
> Thank you Harvey
> George
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: harvey kravitz 
>   To: Antique Phonograph List 
>   Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 12:29 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Passing of Debra Vollema
>
>
>   George, 
>   I am so saddened to hear that your wife passed away. She will be a
great loss to the phonograph community. God be with you and your family.
>   All the best,
>   Harvey Kravitz
>
>
>
>
>   
>   From: Robin & Joan Rolfs 
>   To: Phono-L 
>   Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 6:36:15 AM
>   Subject: [Phono-L] Passing of Debra Vollema
>
>   Greetings,
>
>   We were saddened to hear that Debra Vollema passed away on February 7,
2010.  Debra was by George's side at auctions and when they set up for
Phonovention.  She supported George in the phonograph hobby and business. 
At Phonovention 2009 the entire family was enjoying the show and Debra
always had a smile for everyone.  Our sympathy to George and his family.  
>
>   Please visit:
>  
http://obits.mlive.com/obituaries/grandrapids/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&p
id=139589070
>
>   to leave a favorite memory of Debra.
>
>   Friends,
>
>   Robin & Joan Rolfs
>   Visit us at:
>   www.audioantique.com
>
>   ___
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>
>
>
> 
>   ___
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>
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Re: [Phono-L] WTD: Grille for 4-door Credenza

[Douglas Houston]

Mike; You will probably find the horn grille that you're looking for. After
you've seen many Credenzas, you will notice that, in the earlier ones,
there are three vertical bars in the lower part of the horn grille. The
later ones, such as the 8-30X that I have, will have the center vertical
bar omitted. No big deal; just interesting.

And, so far as the grille cloth goes, look in on
http://www.grillecloth.com.  You will find a generic pattern that's as
close as you could come to the original stuff.  The dealer is John
Okolowicz, and he's a great guy to deal with. 

Tons of luck with the Credenza. You're gonna love it, once you have it up
and going. 


> [Original Message]
> From: mark french 
> To: 
> Date: 2/9/2010 4:25:02 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] WTD: Grille for 4-door Credenza
>
>
> I just picked up a decent Victrola Credenza 4-door that I've started to
fix up, the one important thing it's missing is the entire horn grille and
cloth.  Condition of finish and/or cloth not important, I can refinish it
and/or put new cloth in it.  Thanks!
>
> Side notes - this machine has some WEIRD mods.  For example, eons ago
somebody tapped into the horn elbow and added an iron pipe T-fitting. (??) 
But both ends of it are just open to air, I'll have to remove that and put
in a plug, talk about ruining the bass!  And there's a 6-inch hole cut into
the lower section of the horn wood, like a speaker had been mounted there
with three screws, or something.  Plus an additional a/c wire was added to
the motor connector socket, but whatever it was hooked to is gone.  Anybody
have any ideas of what they were doing, or trying to do, with this thing? 
I assume at one time there was a hose connected to that fitting, for what I
have NO idea.  The vent hole cover near it is missing, maybe that is where
the hose or pipe exited.  Pretty sure I can fix all this stuff fortunately.
>
> Mark French
>  My Victrolas:
>   VV-210
>   10-50
>   Credenza
>   VV-XVII
>
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] A favor -- 1933 hits

[Douglas Houston]

MERLE;

I'm sure your boyfriend knows it, but I'll say it here anyway. Chevrolet 
offered a radio for their cars in 1934,and I believe, also '33. It was in two 
forms. Both mounted to the left of the steering column, and cantilevered off 
the firewall. The control head was part of the radio case, and protruded out 
from under the dash,about flush with the dash surface. One model, the 600566, 
had the speaker in the radio case, and it shouted out toward the passenger side 
of the car. The other model 600565, had an external speaker in a cylindrical 
case, that mounted in the middle of the firewall. The only difference in the 
two sets was the power amplifier stage in the set,which gave more output from 
one model, than the other. While it's true of the '34 Chevies, the mounting 
holes for the radio were already punched in the firewall for the radio and also 
for the speaker. They may be there in the '33's as well. The fabric top of the 
car has the antenna built into it, with the lead-in coming d
 own the driver side "A" pillar. 

I'm a car collector myself, with 9 Cadillacs, an Oldsmobile and a 41 Chevrolet 
convertible. The Chevy has the 5 band radio in it, with lots of  very good 
audio. You can drive down the road with top down, and the radio going at a good 
level. It's almost like a sound truck, I live in the country, so I can get away 
with stuff like that. 

Anyhoo, if your pal has one of the Chevy factory sets in the '33, he could have 
a break-in audio input jack put on the set, reachable from the driver seat, and 
used with a portable battery operated CD player. 


> [Original Message]
> From: msprin...@juno.com 
> To: 
> Date: 2/5/2010 5:07:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] A favor -- 1933 hits
>
> I'm trying to create something a little more custom made so it feels like a 
> special present, rather than just buying a CD.  At least that's my thought 
> for now...  But if I strike out, then these links will be invaluable, and I 
> really appreciate your taking the time on my behalf!
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Dennis Back 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] A favor -- 1933 hits
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:35:48 -0800 (PST)
>
> Hi Merle,
>
> I did a quick google search of 1933 hits and came up with this link:
>
> http://www.popculturemadness.com/Music/Pop-Old/1933.html
>
> It lists the most popular songs of 1933.  It also had a link for a 2 CD album 
> of 1930's hit songs.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/30-Hits-30s-Various-Artists/dp/B00069I72S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1265405333&sr=1-2-catcorr
>
> Although that album includes hits from ALL the 30's and not just 1933, there 
> seems like a lot of great songs there.
> 
> Home Improvement Projects
> Improve your home. Click for products, services, and project ideas.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=InxvPUTVZHH-cbWzLMRpqgAAJ1D2EGWQJgc2Zfu3rGBZpu80AAYAAADNAAAShAA=
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Re: [Phono-L] Hello from Mike Dawicki

[Douglas Houston]

Since I was one of the recipients of your message, and also that I have
cars, I thought I'd share some impressions with you. You need to tell what
the phono collection consists of. This isn't the best time in history to
sell off any kind of collection, but if it's what you want to do, go ahead
with it. 

It's also not a good time for someone to sell collector cars, so it keeps
both parties on a level playing field. I don't know your location, but
there is a guy in Oakland county, Michigan, who had a '54 Cadillac for sale
a while back, and may still have it. My phone is (248) 627-4141, if you'd
like to call, evenings. 


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Cc: ; 
> Date: 2/5/2010 10:34:37 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Hello from Mike Dawicki
>
> Hi Bruce,
> Im thinking of selling my Phonograph collection To buy a Classic 1950s  
> car...Id like a Cadillac 1954-1957
> or maybe a 56 or 57 Chevy Bel Air ...My cell number is 508-274-6784..If
you 
>  know of anyone intersested in the collection please pass on my number.
It 
> would  be sold as a collection only not as individual pieces..
>  
> Thanks Mike Dawicki
>  
> -- ATTACHMENT --
> **An Attachment Was Scrubbed**
> Name: not available
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 59098 bytes
> URL:

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Re: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox?

[Douglas Houston]

I'm pretty sure that they used Shellac. Wax wouldn't set up hard enough to
hold through many plays.  Any of them I've seen, on any sound box was just
a dab to cover the head of the secrew, and bond to the diaphragm. 


> [Original Message]
> From: David Barnett 
> To: 
> Date: 12/11/2009 4:23:02 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox?
>
> To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all  
> of you):
>
> I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new  
> diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax  
> in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand  
> what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the  
> screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That  
> way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have  
> it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints  
> how to do it?
>
> If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email  
> one to met.
>
> Thanks you very much.
>
> David Barnett
>
> David Barnett   da...@fairlibertyscall.com
> 516-767-0675  www.FairLibertysCall.com
>
>
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Victrola Parts Needed

[Douglas Houston]

You can buy a package of 1/16" ball bearings for this phonograph, from a
supplier of ball bearings. The one in Detroit is Detroit ball Bearing, and
there must be other such suppliers in other areas. I don't recall what they
cost, but it was very little, and there were enough bearings for a lot of
Victrolas. If you'd need to order them through the mail, it would be a
simple matter for the supplier.


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 11/19/2009 7:58:31 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Victrola Parts Needed
>
> Hello Friends,
>   I have a 1923 Victorola VV-VI that needs a crank, crank hole
escutchion, 
> good used Exhibition reproducer and ball bearings with the ball bearing
cage 
> for the arm swivel.
>   The crank must be male threaded and the distance from the crank
reciever 
> in the motor to the outside of the case is around 3 inches. 
>   Can anyone help me find same?
>
> Sincerely.
> Rick A. Jorgensen
>
> GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION
> http://www.geaaonline.org
> UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES
> http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html
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Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

Your best bet is to contact Paul Edie, the owner of the Cictor Victrola
site.He's the guy who's keeping the data on all of the Victor Victrolas
that anyone wants to give him data on. 

Catch him on:  http://www.victor-victrola.com/

Try and have the patent sticker date, as well as rthe serial number of the
Victrola.  It appears that all of the VV-XVIII were identical, only for
cabinet woods, and so on. I have a feeling that the Elecrola variants still
had their serial numbers in the sequence with the other jobs. I'm also
beginning to be (pleasantly) surprised at how many of these great Victrolas
have survived. 


> [Original Message]
> From: jim...@earthlink.net 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/9/2009 2:47:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> If anyone is interested in compiling data on them, I have three Victrola
> XVIIIs, two windup & one with electric motor, all mahogany, as follows:
> VV-XVIII - # 988, VE-XVIII - # 1194 & VV-XVIII - # 1695
>  

>  
Ji
> m Cartwright
>  

> 
Imm
> ortal Performances
>
>
> jim...@earthlink.net
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Douglas Houston 
> > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > Date: 07-Nov-2009 4:07:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >
> > That's Paul Edie.He lives near my place, in Troy, Mich. Unfortunately,
> Paul
> > doesn't publish his data base. It would be interesting to know how many
of
> > the Vic 18 phonos have survived. There seems to be quite a few,
> > fortunately. 
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Charlotte Mager 
> > > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > > Date: 10/22/2009 7:33:17 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> > >
> > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
> > going
> > > to http://www.victor-victrola.com
> > >
> > > Charlotte aka Waves
> > > http://www.wavesllc.com
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
> > buildup
> > > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought
by
> my
> > > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as
> were
> > > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the
top
> > > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the
first
> > time
> > > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish"
on
> > the
> > > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was
> exposed.
> > > >
> > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to
> remove
> > > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further
> and
> > > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some
> areas,
> > the
> > > > finish is as new.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
> > phonographs.
> > > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and
> were
> > > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
> > > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
> > > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area
> has
> > a
> > > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over
the
> > > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
> > > >
> > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The
serial
> > > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper
one. A
> > few
> > > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it
> > had an
> > > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and
> the
> > > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
> > > >
> > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together,
> checking
> > > > everything ca

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

That's Paul Edie.He lives near my place, in Troy, Mich. Unfortunately, Paul
doesn't publish his data base. It would be interesting to know how many of
the Vic 18 phonos have survived. There seems to be quite a few,
fortunately. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Charlotte Mager 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/22/2009 7:33:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
going
> to http://www.victor-victrola.com
>
> Charlotte aka Waves
> http://www.wavesllc.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
wrote:
>
> > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
buildup
> > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my
> > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
> > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
> > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
time
> > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
the
> > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed.
> >
> > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
> > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
> > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
the
> > finish is as new.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
phonographs.
> > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
> > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
> > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
> > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
a
> > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
> > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
> >
> > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
> > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
few
> > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it
had an
> > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the
> > one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
> >
> > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking
> > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
Go-Jo
> > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen
a
> > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I
> > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Andrew Baron 
> > > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> > >
> > > Thanks, Douglas.  Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
> > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
> > > soon regain its.
> > >
> > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.  The black
> > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the
> > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've had my  VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to
> > > > realize just
> > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price,
> > > > regardless of
> > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One
> > > > spring was
> > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with
> > > > Go-Jo
> > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Mobility Scooters 
> > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> > > >>
> > > >> Andy
> > > >> Great story!
> > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of  how many people
> > > >> must of
> > > >> seen it before you did in the aft

[Phono-L] Andy's VV-XVIII

[Douglas Houston]

I don't recall if you told the serial number in your original post. Yours does 
have the earlier ID plate, so it would suggest to me that it's earlier than 
mine. 

I'll have to look at a video I made of mine playing, but I think that the 
needle cups are on the LH side of the playing compartment. Could be wrong, of 
course.

Miune has a decal in the lid from J.L. Hudson's Piano Store. Hudson's was THE 
store to buy things from, and the largest one in Michigan. The store's now 
gone, the name is gone; Hudson's is just a memory to us oldsters here, so the 
decal has a stronger meaning for many of us. 

I'll bet you're still doing handsprings around the block over this find. 


Douglas Houston
cdh...@earthlink.net
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Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

Good Lord, a product's name is a conspiracy theory??? Gimme a break!

It's obvious that the maker of that stuff jujst wanted to give it a name
that was sort of attractive, and a tad different. Misspellings were used on
products from time immemorial. 


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/22/2009 9:30:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> True, and I have heard that Kotton Klenser is actually a type of hand
cleaner. Who knows. Go to their website at www.kottonklenser,com and there
are lotsa products and faqs for use. Interesting.
> Is anyone else curious why 2 words normally spelt with a C are spelt with
Ks (KK) and the company is in tennessee, and used to be called Rebel
Products??? Just my conspiracy theory.
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rich 
> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:23:08 
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type 
> of cleaner used.  The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check 
> the ingredients.  The water is tied up in a couple of the other 
> ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the 
> finish problems.
>
> john9...@pacbell.net wrote:
> > I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia
machines, but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove
with a soft cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a
nice vintage shine.
> > We all have our own methods of course!
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rich 
> > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 
> > To: Antique Phonograph List
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> > 
> > The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish 
> > formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the 
> > first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. 
It 
> > will strip the decals quite rapidly.
> > 
> > Barry Kasindorf wrote:
> >> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it 
> >> leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is
very 
> >> good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used.
> >> -Barry
> >>
> >>
> >> Douglas Houston wrote:
> >>> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are
available 
> >>> with
> >>> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right
stuff.
> >>> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same
> >>> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good
> >>> stuff, I understand, for  about 3 times the price.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>> [Original Message]
> >>>> From: Ron L'Herault 
> >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >>>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >>>>
> >>>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.   I use a product by
> >>>> 
> >>> L&D, I
> >>>  
> >>>> think it is  that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
> >>>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove
oil/grease
> >>>> stains (which it does well, by the way).  The brand is not as 
> >>>> important as
> >>>> not having pumice.  It does not remove/affect the shellac but it
does 
> >>>> cut
> >>>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ron L
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
> >>>> 
> >>> On
> >>>  
> >>>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
> >>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >>>>
> >>>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
> >>>> 
> >>> including a
> >>>  
> >>>> hand sanitizer.  Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are 
> >

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

Without disturbing the patina  Good Grief!!!


> [Original Message]
> From: Don Durand 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/22/2009 12:30:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without 
> disturbing the patina.  You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto
stores.
> P.S., It is very inexpensive.
> Good luck,
> Don
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom Jordan" 
> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
>
> >I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
including 
> >a
> > hand sanitizer.  Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are
referring 
> > to
> > and where it can be purchased?  Does it removed the finish or just
clean 
> > it?
> > Thank you.
> > Tom
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] 
> > On
> > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
> > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
> > To: Antique Phonograph List
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >
> > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by 
> > going
> > to http://www.victor-victrola.com
> >
> > Charlotte aka Waves
> > http://www.wavesllc.com
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
buildup
> >> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by
my
> >> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
> >> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
> >> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
> > time
> >> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on 
> >> the
> >> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was
exposed.
> >>
> >> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
> >> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
> >> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
> > the
> >> finish is as new.
> >>
> >> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
> > phonographs.
> >> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
> >> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
> >> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
> >> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area
has a
> >> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
> >> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
> >>
> >> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
> >> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A 
> >> few
> >> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it
had
> > an
> >> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and
the
> >> one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
> >>
> >> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together,
checking
> >> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
Go-Jo
> >> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never
seen a
> >> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going.
I
> >> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
> >>
> >>
> >> > [Original Message]
> >> > From: Andrew Baron 
> >> > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >> >
> >> > Thanks, Douglas.  Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
> >> > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
> >> > soon regain its.
> >> >
> >> > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.  The black
> >> > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the
> >> > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
> >> >

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

I have an aversion to using water based cleaners on shellac or any other
furniture finish, for that part. The good thing about Go-Jo, Goop, D&L, or
any others is that you don't put water on the finish to clean it. 

There is a little film left on the finish, but it sems to evaporate in a
short time. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/22/2009 1:56:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> It does leave a little lanolin on the surface I think.  I usually do a
quick
> spray and wipe with Fantastic (which also does not seem to hurt the
shellac
> as far as I can tell.  I tested it on a shiny part of a 78 and didn't see
> any cloudiness.
>
> Ron L
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Glenn Longwell
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners
would
> you still use anything else after the cleaner to prepare the surface?
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.  I use a product by L&D,
I
> think it is  that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease
> stains (which it does well, by the way).  The brand is not as important as
> not having pumice.  It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut
> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
>
> Ron L
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Tom Jordan
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
including a
> hand sanitizer.  Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring
to
> and where it can be purchased?  Does it removed the finish or just clean
it?
> Thank you.
> Tom
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
going
> to http://www.victor-victrola.com
>
> Charlotte aka Waves
> http://www.wavesllc.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
> wrote:
>
> > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
buildup
> > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my
> > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
> > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
> > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
> time
> > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
the
> > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed.
> >
> > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
> > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
> > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
> the
> > finish is as new.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
> phonographs.
> > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
> > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
> > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
> > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
a
> > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
> > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
> >
> > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
> > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
few
> > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had
> an
> > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the
> > one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
> >
&

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with
pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff.
There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same
formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good
stuff, I understand, for  about 3 times the price.


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.   I use a product by
L&D, I
> think it is  that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease
> stains (which it does well, by the way).  The brand is not as important as
> not having pumice.  It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut
> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
>
> Ron L
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Tom Jordan
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
including a
> hand sanitizer.  Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring
to
> and where it can be purchased?  Does it removed the finish or just clean
it?
> Thank you.
> Tom
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
going
> to http://www.victor-victrola.com
>
> Charlotte aka Waves
> http://www.wavesllc.com
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
> wrote:
>
> > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
buildup
> > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my
> > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
> > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
> > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
> time
> > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
the
> > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed.
> >
> > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
> > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
> > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
> the
> > finish is as new.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
> phonographs.
> > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
> > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
> > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
> > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
a
> > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
> > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
> >
> > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
> > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
few
> > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had
> an
> > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the
> > one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
> >
> > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking
> > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
Go-Jo
> > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen
a
> > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I
> > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Andrew Baron 
> > > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> > >
> > > Thanks, Douglas.  Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
> > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
> > > soon regain its.
> > >
> > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup
of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my
mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time
ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the
top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. 

At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the
finish is as new. 

I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs.
I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a
XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. 

My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few
years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an
aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the
one for auction, Victor changed name plates. 

At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking
everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo
treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a
cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I
also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Andrew Baron 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> Thanks, Douglas.  Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor  
> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will  
> soon regain its.
>
> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.  The black  
> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the  
> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote:
>
> > I've had my  VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to  
> > realize just
> > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price,  
> > regardless of
> > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One  
> > spring was
> > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with  
> > Go-Jo
> > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Mobility Scooters 
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >>
> >> Andy
> >> Great story!
> >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of  how many people  
> >> must of
> >> seen it before you did in the afternoon.
> >> I would say it was waiting for you.
> >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the  
> >> rest
> > of
> >> your life. ha ha
> >> All the very best
> >> Tony
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org 
> >> ]On
> >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m.
> >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >>
> >> Congrats  Any chance of posting pictures???
> >> Ken B.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org 
> >> ]
> > On
> >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron
> >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
> >>
> >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of  
> >> some
> > of
> >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a
> >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph.
> >>

Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me

[Douglas Houston]

I've had my  VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to realize just
what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, regardless of
condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One spring was
broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with Go-Jo
made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!


> [Original Message]
> From: Mobility Scooters 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> Andy
> Great story!
>  Well done that is just fantastic and to think of  how many people must of
> seen it before you did in the afternoon.
> I would say it was waiting for you.
> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the rest
of
> your life. ha ha
> All the very best
> Tony
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]on
> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m.
> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> Congrats  Any chance of posting pictures???
> Ken B.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Andrew Baron
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
>  From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some
of
> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a
> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph.
>
> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more
> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe,
NM.
> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely
> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work
> that would draw a larger population.
>
> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs.  Add to
this
> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for
> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to
begin
> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.  Edison
Standards,
> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the
> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out
of
> a collection.  Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later
on,
> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there
> isn't much of a collecting community here.
>
> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being
said,
> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison
> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand
> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000.
> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are
geographically
> isolated from the big population centers.  The Zonophone was brought here
> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here.
>
> To the subject at hand:
> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall
> sale; everything 30% off.  This event draws what seems like half of Santa
> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until
late
> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.  Anyway, most of what the shop
> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice,
but
> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no
> penalty for arriving when convenient.
>
> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the
> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next
> room.  We continued looking around in the part of the store where we
> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd
> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.  We headed casually
> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the
next
> room.  No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be
> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could
> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out
> beyond the wall separating the rooms.
>
> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to
see
> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers
> of imagination.  Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I
> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L
> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque).
>
> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl
of
> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the
> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.  I also noticed the fine,
> expressive trim on the cabinet 

Re: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film?

[Douglas Houston]

Aileen could conceivably have been on film; even sound film. The first I'd ever 
heard of her was in the early fifties, when a couple of local stations near 
here (Detroit) were playing recordings by the Music Hall Varieties orchestra. 
To me, it was like the teens recordings in new fidelity. So,she probably came 
out of retirement to do those recordings, and her voice and style were as fresh 
as in her early days.

It devaloped that the recordings were on broadcast transcriptions; probably 16 
inch, and on the Thesaurus (RCA) label. Totally out of my reach, I just had to 
enjoy them, and remember hearing them. I had a disc recorder at the time, and 
cut a disc of one tune, but as most of them I made then, It came out extremely 
poor. 

But, Ada's era was so early in the days of motion picture filming, the 
prospects of finding footage of her would be pretty thin. But, as soon as 
someone says it's impossible, they're proven wrong. Let's hope  it happens 
here!. 


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 10/13/2009 5:50:13 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film?
>
> Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed?  I have heard that Ted 
> Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of Billy, 
> and that was a cameo in a short film.  Anyone having any information at all 
> would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Also, was Ada Jones or Aileen Stanley ever on film?  Thanks to all that 
> have responded to my questions over the months.  Your valuable information 
> and 
> input are very much appreciated.  Let's all continue to do our part in 
> keeping this wonderful hobby alive and spinnin'!
>
> Brantley
> Williston, S.C.
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[Phono-L] Lindbergh recordings

[Douglas Houston]

 I have been able to get a couple of the Lindbergh records. I believe that one 
was a 10 inch, and another a 12 inch. They were all taken from the NBC network 
lines. If you've never heard Graham McNamee before, you'll hear him on these 
discs! He was the champion commentator, doing the color on the Lindbergh 
arrival, as well as doing a lot of sports coverage.  His oratorical, terse, 
delivery died in the early thirties.

While I understand that the issue here is records, if you want to see actual 
footage, with the McNamee sound dubbed (synchronized motion picture was a few 
months in the future that month),  look into the movie:"Lindbergh's Great 
Race". I have it, and you'll find that there must have been thousands of feet 
of film coverage, of Lindbergh's flight, and all of the activity in Europe, and 
then, at the reviewing stand in DC. You'll see the Cruiser Memphis, that 
brought him home, and all of the pomp and ceremony that resulted from his 
flight. I feel that this is the best display of Lindbergh's activity that ever 
there has been. You'll hear all of the sound on the movie, that Victor 
recorded, and more.

Maybe some day, I to, might have all of the records, but I'm happy with the 
movie. It's a lot cheaper than some of these recordings have gone fore at 
auctions! 


Douglas Houston
cdh...@earthlink.net
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Re: [Phono-L] Regarding lacquer storage

[Douglas Houston]

One other thing about lacquered items. Some vinyl plastics have a
plasticizer in them that doesn't get along well with lacquer. In one
instance, there was a piece of vinyl insulation sleeving laying against the
black lacquered base for my Garrard transcription turntable for possibly a
week or so. When I picked up the sleeving, it had lifted the lacquer down
to the wood on the turntable base where it had been touching. 

Another place where vinyls will lift lacquer was with a  fender cover of
vinyl coated fabric, on the fender of a friend's car,  painted in nitro
lacquer. The cover had attacked the paint, and made it sticky. The fender
had to be repainted. 

There are some vinyls that won't attack lacquer, but some have strong
plasticizers in them that will do a number on Nitro lacquers. Those
lacquers are used on furniture, radio, and phnograph cabinets after 1925. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Jay Horenstein 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/28/2009 11:43:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Regarding lacquer storage
>
> Thanks for the information, I had no idea.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Robert Wright
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:01 AM
> To: Phono L
> Subject: [Phono-L] Regarding lacquer storage
>
>
> By the way, and many of you may know this, never let acetate/lacquer
> discs get near poly sleeves.  Some kind of chemical reaction happens
> that can ruin them.  The original sleeves they come in are best, or any
> good paper sleeve (acid-free is desirable, obviously).  A transcription
> engineer told me this -- after I'd been keeping all my 12" lacquers in
> a clear poly sleeve for more than a few months.  When I removed them,
> there was a solid yellow circle clearly visible in the poly sleeve.
>
> Best,
> Robert
> _
> HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
>
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:W
> M_HYGN_faster:082009
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Re: [Phono-L] Entombed Victrola

[Douglas Houston]

Good idea. That'll take less time.


> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Wright 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/19/2009 5:14:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Entombed Victrola
>
> I dunno, Doug...  I think they should lay a couple of bomb blankets over
the 
> Victrola and wire the doorframe in question with a pound of C-4.
>
> heh,
> r.
>
> ----- Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
>
>   I'm sure that the obstacle is the
> > place's owner. Dismantling a Victrola cabinet would do a lot of damage
to
> > it. Pulling a door casing would not do anywhere near the damage, because
> > it's nailed together, and in place. If the critical dimension of the
door
> > casing , is the molding where the door closes, maybe they guy could be
> > sweet-talked into just pulling the molding, and replacing it. That
could 
> > be
> > done and never be noticed.
> >
> > D'ya suppose  he might consent to cutting a hole in the floor, and
lifting
> > the Vic into the house, then out the front door?
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Entombed Victrola

[Douglas Houston]

I suppose this will be a stupid question, but the Victrola would have to
been carried in the basement some time ago. It would surely have been in
the main floors of the house at one time. From the way you describe, the
door must have been installed in the place after the Victrola was in the
basement. 

So, it appears that even to get it from the basement into the main floor of
the house, it has to pass through that narrow door casing. Well, H--l,
what's so hard about carefully pulling the door casing apart, then
reassembling it, after the Vic is out?  I'm sure that the obstacle is the
place's owner. Dismantling a Victrola cabinet would do a lot of damage to
it. Pulling a door casing would not do anywhere near the damage, because
it's nailed together, and in place. If the critical dimension of the door
casing , is the molding where the door closes, maybe they guy could be
sweet-talked into just pulling the molding, and replacing it. That could be
done and never be noticed. 

D'ya suppose  he might consent to cutting a hole in the floor, and lifting
the Vic into the house, then out the front door?


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List ; Antique Phonograph
List 
> Date: 8/19/2009 3:52:02 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Entombed Victrola
>
> A friend has turned up an upright Victrola in the basement of a house
being
> sold.  The current owners of the house do not want the Victrola, or were
> unwilling to take it out of the basement, which is where it was when the
> bought the house.  The problem is that in order to get the Victrola out,
one
> has to remove the door frame or dismantle the case of the Victrola.  
>
> How hard is it to take a Victrola case apart?  They are glued with hide
glue
> and screwed together also, right?  Does one loosen hide glue with a hair
> dryer, water, steam or what?
>
> Ron L
>
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Re: [Phono-L] Capehart

[Douglas Houston]

Greg: I was waiting for you to address tracking angle. I can't put my finger on 
it just now, but I recall seeing some mighty goofy tracking angles on some 
record players. There can be little doubt that the designers of a lot of 
phonographs had little or no idea what tracking angle is, or if so, what to do 
about it. A couple of years ago, someone got hold of some Victor field service 
bulletins, and they told of a product campaign to correct tracking angles, and 
they gave serial numbers of the Electrolas that needed correction. My Victor 
9-18 was in one of those groups. I looked at it, and it appears to be OK now, 
so possibly, it was retrofitted. One can just imagine what those 5 pound 
magnetic pickup heads would do to a record! 

Oh, now one comes up. The RCA Ejector changer. As far as I know, they were all 
the same, and the tracking error on my RCA 381 is pretty crumby. Unless they 
changed the pickup arm length, they were bad from beginning to end. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 7/14/2009 3:25:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Capehart
>
> Jim,  you might get more response on your Capehart questions by posting 
> to the Electrola list.  Electrola is dedicated to owners of just the kind of 
> early electric phonographs that you own:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electrola/
>
> But I can answer some of your questions.  Yes, the early magnetic 
> pickups do exhibit considerable "needle talk" compared with modern pickups. 
> But if your pickup has not been rebuilt, it CERTAINLY needs to be.  If it is 
> not rebuilt, the rubber suspension parts have hardened and the lack of 
> compliance with ruin your records in just one play!
>
> Yes, you need to find something other than common steel needles for use 
> with record changers.  The Victor Tungstone needles (and similar tungsten 
> wire needles from other manufacturers) were the best choice for changers of 
> this vintage.  The electric record players of the mid 1930s up to WWII were 
> notorious for inducing massive record wear, mostly due to the poor 
> characteristics of the electric pickups and the improper needles used with 
> them.  In spite of the preponderance of the sapphire so-called "permanent" 
> needles often found with these machines, these needles are the WRONG choice. 
> These early pickups are much too low compliance and track at too high a 
> force to use a hard jewel-tipped needle correctly.  I recommend using 
> tunsten wire needles for ALL of these record players if you want to preserve 
> your records.  Unfortunately, nobody makes these needles any longer, so you 
> are faced with the choice of using steel needles and changing them with ever 
> one or two plays (which negates the advantages of owning a record changer), 
> buying tungsten wire needles when you can find them, or making your own 
> needles.  Since I am a record changer collector and have a number of these 
> old electric players, I make my own tungsten needles.  I'm not geared up to 
> make them in quantity, so it's a tedious process.  But they are worth the 
> effort if you really want to use these players.
>
> The circuit diagrams for nearly every early consumer electronic product 
> and quite a lot of mechanical repair information concerning the Capehart 
> (and other early) record changers can be found in the Rider's Perpetual 
> Troubleshooting (PPT) Manuals.  These manuals were the mainstay of radio 
> repair shops during this period up to WWII when that information business 
> was taken over by Howard W. Sams.  (Sams is the place to look for info on 
> most postwar electronics, but they didn't publish anything on prewar 
> models.)  You can find the individual PPT manuals offered on eBay (there 
> were 23 HUGE volumes in total), but the simplest and cheapest source of this 
> information is to buy the scanned and digitized PPT manual collections 
> complete on CD or DVD.  These are also offered by several sellers on eBay 
> and can usually be had for $10 or less for the ENTIRE collection.  Another 
> good source of early record changer info is the Rider's book titled 
> "Automatic Record Changers and Recorders".  This was a single volume 
> published in 1941.  These also appear often on eBay.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:11 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Capehart
>
>
> > After many years, my 1937 Capehart 404G (serial number 10627E) is now 
> > functioning & sounds great & is fun to watch as it changes
> > records.   I have noticed quite a bit of "needle noise" in the magnetic 
> > pickup when the volume is turned down even though the pickup
> > has been restored.   Is this endemic to a properly performing Capehart as 
> > I suspect because all the doors to the record playing
> > compartment are sealed with rubber gaskets, presumable to contain 
> > mechanical noise or does the pickup need further work?   Also,
> > where c

Re: [Phono-L] Capehart

[Douglas Houston]

Thanks tons, Bob. I have some Chromium needles, and they would never give
the impression that they're easy on the records! They work nicely, but.
I guess there's no other way than Tungs-Tone for those 5 pound pickup heads
on the Electrolas. They're wonderful phonographs, but not gentle on records
at all.  I keep the Electrolas stocked with duplicaions from the main
collection. They wre usually just a bit less pristine than the best ones in
my cabinets. My next piece into the house will be a Victor 12-15 that I
bought a while back. Those things amaze about everybody when they're
playing. 


> [Original Message]
> From: RBaumbach 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 7/14/2009 3:01:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Capehart
>
> Tungstone needles are probably the best choice for either the 10-50 or  
> the Capehart, and were recommended by both manufacturers.  In the mid- 
> thirties Capehart recommended the RCA Chromium needles, but some  
> collectors feel that these are hard on records.  Both the Tungstone  
> and Chromium needles are still rather plentiful.  There is a more  
> comprehensive discussion of needles on the bonus page for the Capehart  
> book (see page 5).
>
> Contact me privately regarding the owner's manual and schematics.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On TuesdayJuly 14, 2009, at 10:11 AM, jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > After many years, my 1937 Capehart 404G (serial number 10627E) is  
> > now functioning & sounds great & is fun to watch as it changes
> > records.   I have noticed quite a bit of "needle noise" in the  
> > magnetic pickup when the volume is turned down even though the pickup
> > has been restored.   Is this endemic to a properly performing  
> > Capehart as I suspect because all the doors to the record playing
> > compartment are sealed with rubber gaskets, presumable to contain  
> > mechanical noise or does the pickup need further work?   Also,
> > where can one obtain needles for playing large numbers of 78s  
> > without being changed in the Capehart or Orthophonic Victrola 1050?
> > I have Mr. Baumbach's excellent book on the Capeharts without which  
> > the repairman who usually works on 1950s & 1960s hifi gear
> > would have been completely at sea in working on the Capehart changer  
> > but would like to obtain copies of the owner's manual &
> > schematics of the tuner & amplifiers.
> >
Jim 
> >  Cartwright
> >
Immortal 
> >  Performances
> >
> >
> > jim...@earthlink.net
> > ___
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>
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[Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem

[Douglas Houston]

I've been watching this thread, and dagnab it, I still have my aged mind
mde up that sumpin' is together bass-ackwards. The only way to ever find
out is to take the thing apart again and re-construct the assembly. I
haven't studied the effects of having a spring in backwards, so my theories
may not mean anything. You realize that this thing is going to have me
losing sleep.  I'll need to swallow a Melatonin tonight just to have peace!

You can bet your sweet bippy that, when I reassemble the 4 spring motor for
a VV-XIV I have, that I'll ponder over every part of that thing.  BTW, I
have heard that white lithium grease is good stuff for these motors. Have
you ever heard otherwise?

There's a spare 4 spring motor laying around here someplace, and I'd even
use it to check on myself when I put the other one together. 

Seriously, Ron, you wouldn't have to remove any springs from the barrels if
you want to check on yourself. If you just remove the barrels from the
shafts and the hubs, you can see readily, which way the spring winds  up in
each end of the barrel. That way, you'll prove conclusively, that I'm
wrong. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/30/2009 11:46:43 PM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
> They did, indeed feel stiff and winding seems normal.  It is gear
reduction
> winding on this type motor, not direct so winding is easy.
>
> Ron
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:05 PM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
>   When you put the springs back did they feal realy stiff?  Does it seem
to 
> have good tension when you wind it?  I don't know if this will help, but
I 
> would let it run down completely and then count the number of turns to
get 
> it fully wound.  Then ask someone with a Credenza with a good 4 spring
motor
>
> to do the same and compare the results   I didn't see Georges sugestion. 
> What was it?
> Bob
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Ron L" 
> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
>
> > The owner of the machine said that even with the thump, it played more 
> > than
> > three sides.  However, the thump was so bad at one point that the needle
> > jumped.  I winder if it was so bound up that one or more of the springs
> > acted as if they were smaller/under more tension and so powered the
motor
> > longer but not the full 20 min.   I also suspected that the springs may 
> > have
> > 'softened' over time but I will try George Vollema's gear suggestion 
> > before
> > I do anything else.
> >
> > Ron L
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] 
> > On
> > Behalf Of Bob
> > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:56 AM
> > To: Antique Phonograph List
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
> >
> > Ron,
> >Did you wind it fully and play it before you changed the grease to
> > eliminate the thumping?  If so how long did it play?  A good four spring
> > motor should run about 20 minutes.  If it didn't, it's possible that the
> > springs have lost some temper and are weak.The only other
possibility 
> > is
> >
> > a bad record or needle but I'm sure you thought of that.
> > Bob
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Ron L" 
> > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" 
> > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:47 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
> >
> >
> >>I do have an electric C.   This is a repair for someone else.  The neat
> >> thing about the clip end/bent end springs is that it is impossible to
> >> assemble them into the cans in the wrong direction.   It is easy to
mess
> >> them up when you have rivets in the cans and holes on the springs. 
They
> >> do
> >> not wind up, and in fact will distort the spring centers, with the real
> >> potential for breaking them.
> >>
> >> Ron L
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Douglas Houston
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:05 AM
> >> To: Antique Phonograph 

[Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem

[Douglas Houston]

What  I was thinking was that when you're packing the spring in the barrel,
it can be started either clockwise, or counterclockwise, depending on
whether it's the winding nend, where the winding gear is, or where it's the
driving end, which attaches to the drive gear.  (there must be a better way
to say it), but I had wondered if one of the springs could have been
started in the wrong direction. If that were done, it might have some funny
behavior, or possibly, the motor could not be wound at all. And too,
packing directions with a 4 spring motor could give you some strange
effects if one spring was inserted in reverse. ?

The "Victor thump" is enough of an annoyance,without having the motor not
working properly!


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/30/2009 10:49:41 AM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
> I do have an electric C.   This is a repair for someone else.  The neat
> thing about the clip end/bent end springs is that it is impossible to
> assemble them into the cans in the wrong direction.   It is easy to mess
> them up when you have rivets in the cans and holes on the springs.  They
do
> not wind up, and in fact will distort the spring centers, with the real
> potential for breaking them.
>
> Ron L
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
> Behalf Of Douglas Houston
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:05 AM
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
> This is a sticky one. I have a long shot thought. Victor has a procedure
in
> the service notes, that tells you whichn spring to load in the barrel, and
> its direction of winding.Is it possible that one of the springs could have
> nbeen installed in reverse? I'm not even sure if the motor could be nwound
> if that were done, but as I've said, it's a long shot.
>
> I have one of those 4 spring jobs apart now, and I've got to study the
> thing a lot before I re-pack the springs.
>
> (Maybe if you got one of those electric Credenzas like I have, you
wouldn't
> have this mess)
>
> Cheers
>
> Doug. Houston
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Ron L'Herault 
> > To: Antique Phonograph List ;
> 
> > Date: 4/29/2009 10:55:02 PM
> > Subject: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
> >
> > Hokay, list experts.  I need help.  The original problem was thumping
> > springs.  So, you take them out (done that many times) clean them, and
> > reinstall/relube. This should be pretty straight forward.  And these are
> the
> > ones with the clip outer ends and bent over inner ends.  They only go
> > together one way.  It winds up fine but only plays 4 sides before it
> starts
> > to loose power and slow down when you try to play the 5th side. 
Sometimes
> > it makes a bit of a scraping sound but nothing is hitting the turntable.
> > What have I missed?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron L
> >
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>
>
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[Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem

[Douglas Houston]

This is a sticky one. I have a long shot thought. Victor has a procedure in
the service notes, that tells you whichn spring to load in the barrel, and
its direction of winding.Is it possible that one of the springs could have
nbeen installed in reverse? I'm not even sure if the motor could be nwound
if that were done, but as I've said, it's a long shot.

I have one of those 4 spring jobs apart now, and I've got to study the
thing a lot before I re-pack the springs.

(Maybe if you got one of those electric Credenzas like I have, you wouldn't
have this mess)

Cheers

Doug. Houston


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List ;

> Date: 4/29/2009 10:55:02 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
>
> Hokay, list experts.  I need help.  The original problem was thumping
> springs.  So, you take them out (done that many times) clean them, and
> reinstall/relube. This should be pretty straight forward.  And these are
the
> ones with the clip outer ends and bent over inner ends.  They only go
> together one way.  It winds up fine but only plays 4 sides before it
starts
> to loose power and slow down when you try to play the 5th side.  Sometimes
> it makes a bit of a scraping sound but nothing is hitting the turntable.
> What have I missed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron L
>
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[Phono-L] Eldridge Reeves Johnson's Papers

[Douglas Houston]

On the topic of Eldredge Johnson.don't take an axe to me, but I have
the book that his son, Fenimore wrote. I seem to remember that Johnson did
not have a Victrola in his home. That's so bizarre, it's hard to believe,
even if I did read it. Does someone here have a good answer?


> [Original Message]
> From: Jack Whelan 
> To: Phono-L 
> Date: 4/17/2009 8:25:30 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Eldridge Reeves Johnson's Papers
>
>
> Brantlley and Friends,
>
>  
>
> The sad discussion about Mr. Peterson raised the question concerning the
whereabouts of Eldridge Reeves Johnson's Papers.  Of course nobody kept
records like Thomas Edison, but I believe many of ER Johnson  papers are in
good hands.  As I'm a bit of a fan of Mr. Johnson, I put up a little
information on my web site about him and where other phono-enthuisiasts can
research him.  Check out http://www.phonojack.com/Johnson.   
>
>  
>
> Researching ERJ 
> The repository for ER Johnson’s Papers, for the period of 1885-1976 is
located at the University of Wyoming, American Heritage Center in Laramie,
WY.  These valuable papers are not yet available on-line but perhaps you
can accelerate the university's Digital Initiative Program by making an
on-line donation to the University’s American Heritage Center, just click
here to learn more. 
>
>  
>
> The Lemelson Center for Study of Invention and Innovation says: 
"Johnson’s papers contain correspondence, diaries, biographical material,
financial reports, clippings, booklets, ledgers, and photos, relating to
the Victor Talking Machine Company and the machine itself".
>
>  
>
> Also check out the Johnson Victrola Museum in Dover Delaware  
http://history.delaware.gov/museums/jvm/jvm_main.shtml Johnson'd desk, a
variety of reports and documents and great stash of papers are kept there.  
>
>  
>
> Our friends at the EMI Archives (originally British Gramophone Company,
later G&T) have original documents, letters, wires including correspondence
with Emiler Berliner and ER Johnson.
>
> I have also seen some rarely seen letters from ER Johnson to William
Barry Owen that demonstrate an incredibly compassionate side of ER Johnson.
>
> There are several other locations where researchers can get access to ER
Johnson papers.
>
>  
>
> Because of the incredible interest in Thomas Edison and his meticulous
note keeping and the many good stewarts that have cared for preserved
Edison's personal and company records, we're luck to have a treasure trove
of Edison Papers on line at Rutgers University.  The Thomas Edison papers
project scanned documents stored at the Edison National Historic Site as
well as documents from private collections.  If you are one of the
fortunate few to have "an authentic Edison paper", you should register your
item(s) with The Thomas Edison Papers project at Rutgers.  Check out: 
http://edison.rutgers.edu/  If you want an unlimited supply of good Edison
reading, start buying the fabulous six volumes printed Books Edition.
>
>  
>
> Have fun,
>
>  
>
> Jack Whelan
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> _
> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
>
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Sto
rage2_042009___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Phono forum problem

[Douglas Houston]

I just tried to register too, and the thing doesn't work by its own rules. 

Alphanumeric name?  My own name, and it doesn't fit the requirements?

The tangled letter maze can't be entered at the end of te data part. 

I often wonder if this stuff is worth the trouble?


> [Original Message]
> From: Steven Medved 
> To: Phono-l 
> Date: 3/13/2009 3:11:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Phono forum problem
>
>
> http://www.victrolagramophones.proboards.com/
>
> http://forum.talkingmachine.info/index.php
>
> This should fix your problem.  If they do not open cut and paste them.
>
> > From: wilenz...@bellsouth.net
> > To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org
> > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:48:26 -0400
> > CC: 
> > Subject: [Phono-L] Phono forum problem
> > 
> > I have tried to load the following phonograph forum advertised in MAPS
and CAPS, but no luck.  Have others had this problem?
> > http://victrolagramophone.proboards.com/
> > 
> > Ray
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] retarmysgt (William) post regarding Gramophoneshane

[Douglas Houston]

I've removed springs from a few of the Victor phonographs that I have. It's 
really not practical to soak them in kerosene, as the factory books say, 
because there is always some residue of the old grease, and after a while, you 
begin to once again, get the "Victor thump" as the motor runs. 

When I removed a spring, I hold the barrrel, with the open side away from me, 
take a pair of pliers, and get the center turns of the spring started out 
presently, the spring begins to unwind itself (much fastly), and is out on the 
ground. So it gets dirty; it's goiung to be washed anyway. I re-pack it after 
re-inserting it, with white lithium grease. 

I didn't try to download the U-tube footage, simply because I have dialup, and 
downloads like that tie up the computer for at least half an hour. 



> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L'Herault 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/2/2009 1:41:59 PM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] retarmysgt (William) post regarding Gramophoneshane
>
> I'll have to watch this video.  It is true, it is not difficult to remove a
> mainspring, especially if you use the method described in Edison's
> literature.  However, it is still dangerous and dirty.  In addition, modern
> replacement springs that I have encountered seem to have sharper edges than
> the originals removed.  I don't know if the originals have become duller
> with use or not.  Replacing a mainspring should not be entered into lightly.
> If you are going to attempt it, you should be properly protected with
> leather gloves and heavy clothes.  Eye protection such as goggles or a face
> shield is a good idea.  I think inserting a new spring is actually a bit
> harder than taking out the old one.  Now I'm going to try and find that
> Youtube video.
>
> Ron L
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
> Behalf Of shane nolan
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:46 AM
> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> Subject: [Phono-L] retarmysgt (William) post regarding Gramophoneshane
>
> I know him well, because I am gramophoneshane!
> 
> I've obviously upset these "repairmen" by showing how easy spring removal
> is.
>
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
From deedeebl...@yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 18:56:34 2009
From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais)
Date: Mon Mar  2 18:56:39 2009
Subject: [Phono-L] Victrola IX Part For Sale
Message-ID: <691951.97572...@web37001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I ran across a mahogany Victrola IX cabinet with motor board and horn.  It's 
serial #67125 C and the crank hole is 9" from the front and 2.75" from the top 
of the cabinet.  If you need case parts, please contact me off list.  Thanks, 
Jerry Blais 


  
From waltsomm...@comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 18:51:58 2009
From: waltsomm...@comcast.net (Walt Sommers)
Date: Mon Mar  2 18:57:35 2009
Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Small Spring Service on YouTube: 
In-Reply-To: 
References: <176860.26718...@web62304.mail.re1.yahoo.com>   
<49abf186.3030...@mediaguide.com>   <49abf58e.2010...@cox.net>
<49ac1b3b.2000...@comcast.net>

Message-ID: <49ac9b4e.1060...@comcast.net>

Hi Steved,

I pretty much only use synthetic grease and oil for motor work. But 
there are some important things to consider.

I haven't looked at the red Amsoil grease but I suspect it is quite 
similar to the grease I am using. I don't recall the brand name that I 
use, but it is a multipurpose synthetic grease that I get from a local 
Tractor Supply Company store. One of the additives that I look for is 
polyisobutylene. Not to get too cerebral here, but polyisobutylene is a 
rubber which increases the viscoelasticity of the lubricant. In a 
nutshell, it gives a lubricant the ability to pull or stretch as gears, 
for example, engage and disengage, or as spring windings compress and 
expand into each other. A lubricant like Vaseline is simply pushed out 
of the way (which is why you need the graphite mixed with Vaseline). I 
wouldn't say that one is necessarily better than the other except when 
it comes to longevity - synthetics last, comparatively, forever. Small 
amounts of two-stroke oil mixed with something like Mobile-1 works most 
excellently for those applications that require oils (faster moving 
parts). The "magic" of two-stroke oil is in fact its viscoelasticity. It 
"hangs on" for the ride unlike conventional oil which creeps. Although 
most of the lubricants aren't particularly hazardous to handle I invest 
heavily in nitrile gloves just to be safe.

Walt




Steven Medved wrote:
Walt,

Have you ever used synthetic grease?  I am thinking of trying the red 
Amsoil grease as it does not have a bad smell.  I REALLY enjoyed your 
post because you pointed out the dangers associated.  When I remove 
springs I use the thick leather gloves I have.

Steve


Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:45:31 -0500
From: waltsomm...@comcast.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: 

[Phono-L] New Ebay My Ebay format - Get That Divorce!

[Douglas Houston]

Indeed, I've been having that same problem with thse scumbags. You select
the next page, but your arrow ends up in the middle of an ad that pops up
in the top of the page. Some times, the ad opens up, and you have to dump
it.   And, as already said, you end up not changing pages. 

Here's my trick.Right click on the number page you want.Left click on  
"Open link in a new window".  Presto, you get the page you want. No ads,
just the next page. It's even quicker than  if you'd waited for EBay to do
it. 

> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Plavzic 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 1/25/2009 6:00:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] New Ebay My Ebay format - Get That Divorce!
>
> Thanks Brantley
>
> You summed it up exactly right.
>
> Also I cannot figure out why ebay keeps changing its format. I don't give
a
> hoot about what ebay thinks are favorite items and they probably do not
> either, there's probably some trick there like top sellers get their junk
> listed first. Hands up who'd like to see most recently listed first.
>
> And the management idiots who approved the new paging format where for the
> page to reload you first get shot to the top of the screen (oh! I'm on a
new
> page, kind of looks like the one I was on) and as you start to scroll down
> the page reloads. Do others have this issue?
>
> I have a friend at ebay and offered to explain to whoever in the company
> what was pissing off "loyal" ebayers like myself.
>
> Just a bit surprised when I was told the answer internally was "oh yes,
the
> collecting nutters".
>
> Say WHAT? So Ebay would run much better if one did not have all these
> sellers and buyers eating up the bandwidth?
>
> Obviously someone does not get it!
>
> best
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:21 AM,  wrote:
>
> >
> > In a message dated 1/22/2009 4:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> >  kugl...@wmconnect.com writes:
> >
> > Let's  face it phono lovers...ebay is not, and will not be what it used
to
> > be.
> > Ebay is a great example of a company that was successful in making money
> >  and
> > at the same time pleasing it's LOYAL customers.  Now, ebay has  become a
> > greedy business whose number one goal is to make money,  regardless of
how
> > it
> > affects the customer.
> >
> > I got a real kick out of  this morning's news when there was a story
that
> > stated that EVEN ebay is  feeling the crunches of this bad economy.  The
> > newscaster
> > went on to  say that according to ebay, the reason was because there
were
> > no
> > big  desirable Christmas items this year.  No, ebay.  That's not the
> >  reason.
> >
> > The reason is because some of the customers are getting fed  up with
the _
> >  _
> >  _
> > _ that your company is pulling over on  them.
> >
> > I have joined several of you on this group that will not  sell or buy on
> > ebay.
> > It will take many more of us; but this is the only  way that this greedy
> > company is going to face up.
> >
> > Also, have any of  you noticed the fraud that has increased with ebay?
> > Examples are the  stolen pictures placed with items, people not getting
> > their
> > goods,
> > etc.,  etc., etc.
> >
> > My hobbies, including phonograph and record collecting, have  not
suffered
> > one
> > bit from my divorce from ebay.  In fact, I find  myself spending more
time
> > enjoying my collections.  Just think, if  most people would stop their
love
> > affair
> > with ebay, they could enjoy their  nice Victor V with a cool Billy
Murray
> > singing out the hits!
> >
> > You  know...I think ebay really did me a favor.  Thanks ebay for your
work
> > in
> >
> > causing me to sever my ties with you.  The divorce was cheap.   It
didn't
> > cost
> > me a thing.
> >
> > That's all I got to say.  You all  take care and as always...
> >
> > Keep 'em running at 78...rpms that  is!
> >
> > Brantley
> > Williston,  S.C.
> > ___
> >
> >
> > I'm with ye, Brantly!
> >
> > I haven't used e-bay (other than for entertainment, a la Harvey K) since
> > they went to Pay Pal or Nada.
> >
> > Now, Nada n' I will go play a record on a Victor Talking Machine and we
> >  will
> > enjoy the music.
> >
> > See y'all later!
> >
> > Edward, in Zigzag
> > **From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between,
> > stay
> > up-to-date with the latest news.
(http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom0023
> > )
> >  ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Re: Brunswick Panatrope part 3...

[Douglas Houston]

OK, now it all comes clear.  I have a P-11, with the same electronics, but
with the 6 inch electro-dynamic speaker. It sounds absolutely wonderful. I
suspect that the P-14 was the one that scooped Victor in 1925, before the
Orthophonic system was  announced (Victor Day). Brunswick Balke-Collender
was a furniture maker, doing some terrific creations. Their entry into
phonographs and records was in the late teens. Indeed, their cabinetry was
beautiful. Any of the Panatrope phonograph-only models are very desirable.
They were expensive, so sales were low. Their survival rate is also low, so
I have to use the overworked eBay term: RARE.

Anybody who can find one of them is fortunate, indeed. 


> [Original Message]
> From: DanKj 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 1/2/2009 5:20:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Re: Brunswick Panatrope part 3...
>
> Here's a schematic for the P-14: 
> http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/518/M0039518.pdf
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 3:49 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Brunswick Panatrope part 3...
>
>
> > The machine is labeled a Model P-14 on a gold disk with the serial
number
> > below it as #153695.  On the back side is another screwed on plate
stating the
> > machine is a Brunswick Panatrope Model AZ-958.  At the bottom of this
second
> > plate is the license information from RCA.
> >
> > The tube sockets are labeled UX216B, UX199, UX210.
> >
> > There is no sign of a battery radio or anywhere one would go.
> >
> > There is a 110VAC male plug on the back for power to the unit.
> >
> > The pickup head is the horseshoe magnet type.
> >
> > The horn is a large circular mass with the small driver feeding it from
a
> > vertical position then the horn goes in a full circle until it turns
outward.
> > The horn is very much like a Sousaphone shape. Where it is cracked the
color
> > under the paint makes it look like plaster which may have confused me. 
One thing
> > is certain, the horn is some type of composition material that allows
for a
> > very odd free form structure.  It is not any type of dynamic speaker
with a
> > cone.
> >
> > The cabinet woodworking is very classy and this was not a cheap
phonograph.
> > There are 4 vertical record drawers, 2 on each side of the horn opening.
> >
> > I can send you the same email that was sent to me if that will help.
> >
> > Thanks again to everyone for the comments and help.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > **New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making
> > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026)
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Edison Opera

[Douglas Houston]

Your suspicion is well founded. I acknowledge that there are some who may
not have the facilities for supplying pictures, but for the amount of money
he/she expects someone to part with, they have to expect the prospective
buyer to want to see what they sre offering. The thing could have been at
the bottom of a lake for a few years. How are you supposed to k now?


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 12/30/2008 8:23:44 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Opera
>
> Hi group,
> There is a very pretty Opera on eBay but I am wondering  whether anyone
else 
> feels uneasy about this offering.  I have asked for  further pictures and
have 
> been told that the person making the offering doesn't  own a camera. 
Does 
> anything about this seem fishy to anyone else?  
> Check out ebay #170290126711
> Thanks, Art Heller
> **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
>
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0
025)
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Hobbies Magazines

[Douglas Houston]

I have a quantity of HOBBIES magazines thet I'd like to find a home for. I will 
have to make up a list of dates, etc. They are all in incomplete years, and one 
year is hard bound. All in good shape. Each issue has an article by Jim Walsh, 
which will be the major attraction for them. 

I'd like to move them all as a lot, but selling them individually will make 
them more costly. At present, I'm looking for any interest in them. 


Douglas Houston
cdh...@earthlink.net
From jsk...@charter.net  Sun Nov 30 14:52:36 2008
From: jsk...@charter.net (jsk...@charter.net)
Date: Sun Nov 30 15:13:19 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] For Sale
In-Reply-To: <87130a82ac234a92a688a43553737...@dg86t661>
Message-ID: <20081130175236.p97ig.273767.r...@mp07>

Hi On the Edison bank would you take $225.00? I will also pay the shipping. 
Jerry




 "Vince C."  wrote: 
> I have the following for sale..  I have also provided a link below to 
> pictures of the items listed.  I am open to reasonable offers on the items.
> 
> Columbia Deluxe (Lions Head phonograph), $6500
> Mira double-comb 9.25" music box, $2400
> Edison and Okeh framed store signs, $275 each
> Edison Bank, $275
> Brunswick Bank, $175
> How to sell Victors on Instalments book, $225
> Anthony Visco Nipper, $175
> 
> Here is the link to see the items:
> http://home.comcast.net/~vtm12/sale/sale.html
> 
> Please email me directly with any questions.  I am located in PA, 19426.
> 
> Thanks,
> Vince
> 
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Thanks Givings

[Douglas Houston]

Doggone, the best stuff comes from you guys!  Our military is the greatest
assemblage of dedicated hearts and souls known to mankind. Just being in
the presence of any of them, is inspiring!

Doug. Houston Former Capt. SgC  USAR. 



> [Original Message]
> From: Loran Hughes 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/26/2008 11:46:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Thanks Givings
>
> Well said, Sgt. Buchanan.
>
> Respectfully yours,
> TSgt Hughes (USAF, Ret.)
>
> On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:27 PM, buck Buchanan wrote:
>
> > I want to take this time to wish all of our fellow members a Happy  
> > Thanks Givings!
> > While we sit in our safe homes, I want you to consider those that  
> > help keep us safe.
> > That would be our young men and women who are serving in the military.
> > Whether they are here in America or serving in a distance land we  
> > should take a moment and give thanks and offer a prayer for them and  
> > their families.
> > Those members who live in other nations you should also remember  
> > your young men and women and offer a prayer for them as well.
> > Our young people offer the greatest gift to protect us and that is  
> > their lives.
> > They have volunteered and placed themselves in harms way not to  
> > become rich or to be on TV or to become famous.
> > No they do this because they love their country and their countrymen.
> > With love so great that they are willing to forfeit their own lives  
> > if it comes to that to protect us and our families.
> > They deserve more than we will ever be able to give to them, but  
> > they ask for nothing.
> > All they want is to protect our homes and our families.
> > So please take a moment and give thanks for those who protect what  
> > we take for granted our freedom.
> > Freedom is not free it is bought and paid for with the blood and  
> > tears of our people.
> > So before you sit down to your supper tomorrow please remember them.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Wm Buchanan
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Help with Opera/1B Mandrel Finish

[Douglas Houston]

The use of gun blue on brass will give a brownish-black finish. Test it on
a scrap of brass and see if it's what you want. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Mark Lynch 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/13/2008 10:04:39 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Help with Opera/1B Mandrel Finish
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone here have experience recreating the brownish-black finish
found
> on the Edison Opera and Amberola 1B mandrel? 
>
> It appears to be a chemical finish on the brass surface as opposed to a
> plated finish. 
>
> I'd be most grateful to talk to someone who has first-hand experience or
> can refer me to the right person.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
> Silver Spring, M
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Lateral Vs Vertical.

[Douglas Houston]

One of the factors left out of this is the fact that recording an acetate
disc is a whale of a lot different than recording in a wax cake, as the
record companies did. I have a Presto K8 recorder, which does (did) a
decent job on recording on acetate discs, but I knew enough to not expect
this cutter to give me a recording that compares to a factory cut on a wax
cake. Like on the Failchild head, one would have needed to push the Presto
head to distruction to get wider response. When you recordeed with this
equipmant, you had no right to demand or expect factory quality recordings. 

Should we be surprised that there was better HF response when the cut was
on a wax blank? From what I extract from this, the wax cylinders, cut with
an electrical head had better frequency response. Now, try cutting the same
material on acetate coated aluminum cylinders, and see what comes out of
it. In fact, just for laughs, try cutting the same program  on an acetate
coated cylinder (I've never heard of such a thing), with lateral
modulation, and see what you'll get. Throughout history, apples never
compare well to oranges. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Thomas Edison 
> To: 
> Date: 11/3/2008 9:20:40 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Lateral Vs Vertical.
>
> Hello everyone. Thinking of the L and V issue, I have a very simple
response from cutting records.  I had recorded Laquers with the Fairchild
lathe , in order to record high frequencies, I had to boost them to a
dangerous level almost burning the coil up.  When you record you boost
highs and limit the lows, and the opposite when you play them back.  I used
the same head to record hill and dale cylinder records on Edison blanks,
and could record the cylinders almost flat, and the lows and highs sounded
very similar to the original recording, and the highs did not have to be
boosted to the dangerous levels of the lateral disc of which the head was
designed to cut, so it certainly seems that it is harder to record highs on
lateral recordings than vertical. Some of you on the list have some of
these electrically recorded cylinders in your collections with modern music
on them, you can state the same I am sure.  When it comes to bass however,
vertical records are much harder as li
>  fts occur, but you can increase the ambient wax temperature and record
deeper grooves, and record more bass  The lowest bass note I had recorded
on cylinders was 16 cps, however this was a test tone, with no other
frequencies added, it was very difficult to do but can be done.  Lateral
records record bass with relative ease, however  if the volume is to high
the grooves run into eachother and must be spaced apart more. (Most modern 
recording lathes do this automatically.) If you listen to companies that
recorded lateral and vertical records you can hear much clearer records,
with vertical recordings time and time again.  Pathe',  Gennette ect. 
> _
> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.
>
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns
!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
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[Phono-L] What a Beauty

[Douglas Houston]

Indeee, I'm not an outside horn guy ay any means. But, with all of the
hullabaloo about this glass job, I'm astonished to hear that it's not the
superlative thing someone else had claimed. At thtis point, if a genuine
outside horn phonograph were offered me, I'd have to call in a GOOD expert
to look at it. You can get took oh, so easily!


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Date: 9/20/2008 11:57:48 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] What a Beauty
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/clt/847932047.html
>
> Now that's better. The seller has come to his senses and dropped the
price on this rare beauty imported from India, circa 1930.  Now how can you
pass it up??
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 251

[Douglas Houston]

This whole thing has been very interesting. It's the classical behaviour of
a giant that grew up too fast. eBay has become a gigantic monopoly that
will be feeding on itself. If they continue on this course, it could be the
straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sure that they have a corps of
bookkepers that are feeding a never ending flow of ideas to fine tune their
system. eBay is indeed, a profit engine. Already said above, they are a
business that has no inventory, and that makes its money on the sellers
that they serve as agents.It's a parasite that has found ways to get its
customers into a compromising condition, and it is moving in for a kill. 
The only boycott that ever could be used on them will be a discontinuation
of bidding, and that isn't a thing that would work strongly, if at all. The
sellers won't back off, as long as there are buyers. Those of us who are
buyers would need to  move against eBay as a body, and cause a significant
decline in their busines, and that isn't a practical strategy. eBay would
have to recognize the impact of an organized boycott, and they know it'll
never happen. 

There will have to be another avenue to use to replace eBay. Should this
happen, and eBay sees its revenues diminishing, possibly, it will sober up,
and try to go back and rebuild the operation that made it the roaring
success that it was, prior to the greed syndrome.If this would happen,
they'll find that there will not be anything to go back to. I know of a
(former) giant corporation that has had cost cutters grind it down to a
mere shadow of itself, and is still having the cost cutters shaving off a
little more all the time. It's like sharpening a pencil more and more, 'til
there's nothing left. They've been in a downward spiral, and are too dumb
to even recognize it. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Bob 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 9/14/2008 4:24:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 251
>
> John,
> They really don't care.  I sent the following after I heard about
this 
> and never got a reply.
>
> Dear eBay,
> I just wanted to tell you what I think of your new fee structure, 
> particularly the part about eliminating payments by checks or money
orders. 
> I think you are a bunch of thieves and you have sunken to a new low.  You 
> conveniently neglect mentioning that most of us will now have to accept 
> paypal and you will double what you make on all these auctions.  Also you 
> will make an additional 2 % on the shipping too.  I think if you want to 
> have this policy, you should allow the sellers to charge the buyers for
the 
> service. If they don't want to pay, they don't have to bid or they can 
> adjust their bid accordingly   You shouldn't care where you get your
pound 
> of flesh.
> I think you people have lost sight of what you are- a virtual
company. 
> You don't have factories, stores or inventory.  All you have is sellers
with 
> these things working for you.  You should do everything in your power to 
> keep them happy.  Originally you did.  Now you treat them with no
respect. 
> You must think they are all idiots.  If you think the changes you made
last 
> winter caused a lot of controversy, just wait until this change sinks in 
> with the small sellers.  You don't seem to realize that the competition
for 
> your business is growing.  If you keep this up your profits may increase
in 
> the short run but eventually it will catch up with you and some smart 
> entrepreneur will gobble you up.
> I know you will probably not respond to this note but  when you get 
> enough of them you may realize you have made a mistake.
> Robert Vuillemenot
> - Original Message - 
> From: "J.F. Bennett" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 251
>
>
> > Gents,
> >
> > Firstly sorry about the typo-in my posting it should have read 
> > NON-payment.
> > I'm sure you all knew what I meant. Good point all-the IRS is, I'm sure
> > going to take full advantage of this change. Although bear in mind that
> > money orders and checks leave trails too. This will just make it a bit
> > easier I'd imagine. E-Bay isn't the only game in town, it is however the
> > biggest by a mile. A friend of mine just quite E-Bay due to their
> > heavy-handed actions. He made a typo on the shipping charges of an item 
> > and
> > rather than contact him they simply pulled the auction. He joined eBid:
> > http://us.ebid.net/ He seems happy for now, but I looked in and found a
> > grand total of three 78s! Maybe in time. Craigs List is good too but I 
> > have
> > had the best luck record-wise on E-Bay and I don't see any alternative
for
> > me. I don't drive so I can't do the flea markets and yard sales &c. and 
> > even
> > with Craigs list most things generally are pick-up rather than mail.
> >   Brantley, I know what you are saying and I agree with you in the main,
> > but a boycott will not work, for every one

[Phono-L] More Ebay Pranks

[Douglas Houston]

This is solid philosophy. But, eBay has been so lucrative for so many
sellers, they won't be able to put a muzzle on their hunger for profit.
It'll be hard to get most of those characters to slow down or back off
supporting eBay. I hope I'm wrong, but.


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 9/13/2008 8:25:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] More Ebay Pranks
>
> I just don't understand for the life of me why no one has been able to 
> challenge ebay by establishing a new on line auction.  Every successful
business in 
> the world has been challenged.  Examples are:
>
> Ford
> Coca Cola
> General Electric
> K-Mart
>
> The list goes on and on.  It truly amazes me that ebay is still the one
and 
> only on line auction that just continues to monopolize on line auction
world.  
> For this reason, they are big enough to continue to go up on rates, tell
YOU 
> the SELLER how you will get paid, and YOU the BUYER how you will pay.  
>
> Most businesses in our country that continue to forget the patrons that
made 
> them who they are in the first place at some point in time begin to lose 
> steam.  I am still waiting for the time that a new company comes up and
over takes 
> ebay.  
>
> As a 12+ year member of the ebay community as a seller and buyer (100% 
> feedback), I have decided to boycott the auction company.  I am doing my
part to 
> stop supporting a company that tells me how I will do business.  I feel
that if 
> enough people do this, ebay will get the message.  
>
> It's one thing to cry and 'belly ache' about how you are treated in the 
> business world, but another thing to say, "I am not only going to
complain, but I 
> AM GOING TO STOP SUPPORTING THE BUSINESS."
>
> When we all do that, the business will get the message.  
>
> It's like our local gas stations here in town.  When they saw an
opportunity 
> to put the screws on us by selling us gas that they bought last week at a 
> $1.00 more a gallon (from $3.57 Friday to $4.57 today Saturday) due to
the 
> hurricane threat, I made the decision to stay home all weekend.  It
appears that many 
> of my community neighbors have also done the same as word is these
stations 
> have done very little business.
>
> Instead of running on gas this weekend, I am running on the energy of my
100+ 
> year old Victor springs and enjoying every minute.  Billy Murray and Ada 
> Jones have never sounded better, and to think...the entertainment and
energy to 
> produce it is free!!
>
> It's all about the mighty dollar my friends!  You take care and keep the 
> speed limit at 78...rpms that is!
>
> And yes, thank you Billy and Ada for continuing to entertain us, and for 
> putting smiles on our faces!
>
> Brantley
> South Carolina
>
> 
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Gramophone Company Period style victrola ?

[Douglas Houston]

One thing that will funnel us into the era of the Victrola's manufacture is
the electric pickup, if nothing else. With Victor, it couldn't have been
before 1925.  Also, the induction disc motor appeared with the introduction
of the Orthophonic phonographs. That seems to track with Bob Baumbach. Now,
we need to remember that a lot of cities had DC power districts, so the
universal motor was kept in the catalogues along with the induction disc
motor. The universal motor began about 1915, but not the magnetic pickup!! 

The only other thought on this is, that this Victrola could have began its
life with a spring motor and acoustic sound chamber. If the cabinet is as
fine as it seems to be from the descriptions, the owner could have had a
dealer do a conversion. 


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Date: 9/1/2008 4:50:38 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Gramophone Company Period style victrola ?
>
> I have just been contacted by a lady in Massachusetts who has what
appears to be a very large and elaborate Period Style Cabinet Victrola.  It
has Victor Victrola Style parts, and #2 Reproducer, but inside the
elaborate cabinet are the words Gramophone Co.  This is an internal horn
style victrola but for some reason it also has an additional early style
electric pickup and tone arm with it. It does have a motor in it to turn
the turntable, and I will see if the owner can identify it as either the
early induction or universal type. Can anyone out there, maybe some of our
friends across the pond positively identify the cabinet styles that were
used in the Gramophone Company Period style victrolas.  If you think you
can, I will gladly send you some photos of the this monster for you to
identify and get back to me. It is a real "space taker upper" and I must
admit I have never ever seen one of these before. I checked Look for the
dog and it does not match any of the Victor Period
>   Style Cabinets. She said this was originally purchased from a
Wellesley, Massachusetts estate aution. thanks for your help on this.
>
> Bruce
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Collectibles - How's That For Originality?

[Douglas Houston]

I've judged many a vintage car in meets over the ast 30+ years. If the meet
has provision for original unrestored  cars, watch the liars swarm in.
Restoration work can be identified without too much trouble, but some
times, it's so well disguised the best scrutiny might miss it.

One party a;ways had a beautiful unrestored car at this meet. ( a Buick, in
this case). It passed the criteria for unrestored, OK, but the chief judge
and I had some heartburn about it. We were together at the award banquet,
kicking it around, and quickly decided to sneak out and make a quick check.
We gave it an eyeballing like you've never seen. We turned up several; too
many areas where  new paint had been fogged in. That much rework would, and
did disqualify the job. Further checking after the banquet, showed that a
total repaint had been done. It was a good job, but the condition of the
paint job (maroon) was too good to be original. 

Time has shown us so many details on our phonographs, that give us savvy
about what's right and what ain't. Yet, I suppose that as long as the world
turns, and shysters might fall off, more get on, and try to fool the
experts. Sometimes they're successful, often they aren't. But, damn the
experts, full speed ahead. 


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 8/15/2008 7:45:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Collectibles - How's That For Originality?
>
> Yes, originality is the desired goal and is getting more difficult to
find as 
> time goes by.  I feel sorry for the newbies entering the hobby today who 
> strive for this.  Just this month on eBay was a "never been played brown
wax 
> record" in a ratty Gold Molded box and an Edison Electric Phonograph
which is an M 
> motor base with a late Model A Triumph topworks that has craftsman added
idler 
> pulleys to the topworks but with no pulley stanchions and a serial number
on 
> a patent plate way to high.
>  
> I really do miss the golden days when I would answer an ad for a
phonograph 
> in the newspaper.  One was for an Amberola DX which I still own.  It read 
> simply Edison Amberola $275 which in 1965 was rather high but I called
and went 
> anyway.  The very old couple selling the machine had it sitting on a
curved front 
> Hertzog matching oak record cabinet full of desirable titles of Blue 
> Amberols.  I asked them what they wanted for the cabinet and they said
nothing since 
> it went with the phonograph.  I told them the combination was worth much
more.  
> They simply would not take more than $275.  As I was packing my new
treasures 
> I asked what was so special about the figure $275 and they responded that
was 
> what the vet's bill was for their cocker spaniel to get a new gold tooth!
>  
> Regards to All and may all your finds be rare ones...
>  
> Al
>
>
>
> **Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
budget? 
> Read reviews on AOL Autos.  
>
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00
0307 )
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Collectibles - How's That For Originality?

[Douglas Houston]

Well, as a fatter of mact, I read the book about Eldredge Johnson, by his
son. I seem to recall that he didn't have a Victrola in his home!  He
certainly WOULD think that we're nuts.


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 8/14/2008 8:06:51 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Collectibles - How's That For Originality?
>
> Doug - You make a great point!  Just think, we collectors are enjoying
items 
> that have long outlived their shelf life.  It amazes me that when I
attend 
> phonograph shows, people just staring out collecting phonographs, or even
the 
> most avid collectors, want machines that are pristine, have all the
original 
> parts, and obtain all of the manuals and directions that first came with
them.  My 
> question to them is, "Would you like the original crate that the machine
came 
> with also.  If you do, I have several in the back?"  
>
> I am one for originality, but let's all understand one thing.  The
pristine 
> Victor VIs, with all of the original parts, that came out of the old
lady's 
> attic are long, long gone.  Anyone looking for such an item, a phonograph
in 
> particular, is in for a rude awakening if they think that every
phonograph that 
> they have in their collection is 100% original.  One or two may be, but
for the 
> masses, the cranks, horns, the governor weights, turn table felt,
reproducer 
> gaskets, etc., are most likely replacements of some sort.  I agree, some
of the 
> replacements may be original parts such as the horn or the cranks, but
keep 
> in mind, most ARE NOT original to THAT machine.  The only person that can 
> honestly say that a machine is 100% original is the one that bought it. 
Sadly, 
> these people have more than likely passed away by now.  
>
> Just think, each machine that we buy has changed hands many, many times. 
I'm 
> sorry, but I don't fall for that machine on ebay that is being sold by
the 
> great, great grand daughter to the grandfather that purchased the
phonograph in 
> down town New York on St. Patrick's Day in 1909.  In most cases, it just
don't 
> happen that way.  
>
> I am approached by sellers wanting to sell me machines that were sold to
them 
> by collectors that I knew and passed up buying that same machine from
them 
> months ago.  The new seller wants $1000.00 more for it than when I could
have 
> bought it from the first seller.  With the exception of the machines
located in 
> well protected and guarded collections, most machines are bought and sold
and 
> bounced from one person to the next.  I see it often.  In fact, I was at
a 
> show a couple of years ago and there was a gentleman there with a Victor
VI.  In 
> looking at the machine, I realized that it was the same one that I
watched on 
> ebay just two weeks before.  The only difference is that the buyer bought
it 
> on ebay for $3500.00 (No horn).  His sale price at the show was $5500.00
(With 
> worn out horn).  It did not surprise me to see this gentleman take this 
> machine home with him because several people at the show saw the item on
ebay and 
> declined as well.
>
> I spoke with a reputable phonograph repairman the other day by phone.  He 
> said that he would never have a reproduction crank, reproduction horn, or
any 
> other reproduction part for a machine in his collection.  Keep in mind
that this 
> repairman also sells and pushes reproduction parts!  My response to him
was 
> that some of the reproduction cranks (slotted especially because
originals are 
> difficult to find), horns (wood ones especially), and other reproduction
parts 
> look fantastic on a phonograph.  I have seen some phonographs with
original 
> horns that were so bad with rust and holes that one could read a
newspaper 
> through it.  Let's face it, a 1956 T-Bird for sale at a Barrett-Jackson's
auction 
> most likely does not have the original tires, original battery, or
original 
> head lights.  Some things do just wear out, don't you know.
>
> On the positive note, all of these machines still provide us collectors
with 
> much fun, and the opportunity to sport or show off a piece to anyone that
may 
> be interested.  Not all of public USA is even interested in phonographs. 
It 
> never ceases to amaze me that when we have friends over, many never even 
> acknowledge my Victor V with the oak spear tip horn.  I often say to my
wife that 
> the reason why is that they just saw one at Wal-Mart!  
>
> One thing is for sure, phonographs are not only great collectibles, but
great 
> pieces of history.  Besides the fun in collecting, I have enjoyed the
many 
> friends that I have met along the way.  
>
> I can imagine having the opportunity to speak with Mr. Eldridge himself
and 
> ask him what he thinks of his products still being enjoyed and collected
after 
> all of these 100 and some years.  His response would most like
be"Your are 
> kidding, right."
>
> Thanks much and may God bless!
>
> Brantley 
> South Carolina   
> ___
> Phono-L mailin

[Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values

[Douglas Houston]

Or, possibly that Saffady felt that the aluminum substrate, allied with the
flexible plastic would make a virtually indestructable sandwich. Plastics
were not as well understood in 1946 as they are now. And too, as I have to
remind everyone I chat with, records, radios, cars, phonographs were not
expected to be in service, or indeed, even existence 50 years after they
were made. We have no right to demand eternal survival of anything more
than perhaps, Gibraltar or the Rockies..and per Ira Gershwin, they're
only made of clay!


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/14/2008 4:26:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
> Yes, the vinyl records from the postwar period have held up
surprisingly 
> well so far.  Certainly better than magnetic tape from that period.  If
you 
> can manage to find a Vogue that hasn't been played or scratched to death, 
> the sound quality on them is pretty good.  But one of their potential 
> problems is the oxidation of the aluminum substrate.   I have more than
one 
> Vogue that has been severely cracked or chipped in years past which has 
> allowed moisture and air to get to the aluminum surface.  This causes
mild 
> to severe powderizing and bubbling of oxide to form on the aluminum which 
> then bubbles up the paper and vinyl sheet laid on top of it.  This damage 
> can usually be heard before it's seen - the bubbling causes a noticeable 
> increase in the rumble content when you play the record.  I'm not sure
why 
> Vogues were made with an aluminum substrate rather than using a vinyl
core 
> as is done with modern picture records.  Might have been a patent 
> infringement thing since RCA and others had made picture records in the 
> 1930s.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
>
> > Indeed. There have been very few plastics that  have had any permanence.
> > Catalin has shown to be more stable than many others, but when the
> > plasticizer finally dries out of the plasticx, it's curtains for the 
> > piece.
> > In the thirties, plastics were all the panic. There were things shown in
> > plastics that were downright sensational. I'm sure that a lot of people
> > thought that glass would soon be made obsolete by gorgeous plastic
things.
> > Well, my mother and my aunt didn't throw out their cut crystal, and I
now
> > have a couple of cabinets full of it.
> >
> > In those days (that I remember so well), the automotive industry went
> > ballistic over plastics too. Today, there are guys who re-mold steering
> > wheels for those cars. The big plstic was Tenite I, a plastic by
Tennessee
> > Eastman in Kingsport, Tennessee. You'll travel long and far to see an
> > original steering wheel on a prewar car!.  However, I have a '38
Cadillac,
> > with the original steering wheel, and still decent dash plastic, and you
> > just don't ever see that.
> >
> > Which brings us to the Vogue records. Tom Saffady, a tool  and die
maker 
> > on
> > East eight mile road in East Detroit (Across 8 Mile from Detroit) got
the
> > idea of making these pretty records. I understand that he used an
aluminum
> > base, attached the artwork to it, and molded the plastic to it, pressing
> > the recording in the same operation. While I don't know for sure what
the
> > plastic is, I'm sure that  it's a vinyl, and of the best quality at the
> > time. When they hit the stores, they made quite a splash, and they sold
> > well, more for their novel character than anything else. No surprise,
they
> > were priced higher than the major brand shellac discs, but their charm 
> > gave
> > them their value. Sadly, the novelty wore off, and Saffady wasn't able
to
> > get the price down to meet the competition. He had tried to have a 
> > multiple
> > pressing rig, to perss (I believe) nine discs at once, but it never 
> > worked.
> > He folded, unfortunately, and his building later housed a cutthroat
> > department store caled something like Hall of bargains. One day, I
passed
> > there, and the place had been gutted by fire, and not all of the walls 
> > were
> > standing. I believe that there is a fast food place on that site today.
> >
> > So, what about the plastic that Sav-Way Industries (Tom Saffady) used on
> > those discs? Astoundingly, it seems to have held up very well. Since
Vinyl
> > plastics harden and shrink with age, I 

[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Re: Vogue Picture Records values

[Douglas Houston]

I'm sure it would be. If the plastic shrinks from age, the strains have to
appear somewhere.


> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Wright 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/14/2008 3:51:28 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Re:  Vogue Picture Records values
>
> Doug, is that why even some of the best preserved copies still have 
> lamination cracks under the surface?
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
>
> 
> > So, what about the plastic that Sav-Way Industries (Tom Saffady) used on
> > those discs? Astoundingly, it seems to have held up very well. Since
Vinyl
> > plastics harden and shrink with age, I would worry about the Vogue discs
> > deteriorating at some time in the future. Plastics are not permanent,
and
> > the newest Vogue disc is about 62 byears old.  The aluminum core will
not
> > shrink, but the plastic could. 
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values

[Douglas Houston]

Indeed. There have been very few plastics that  have had any permanence.
Catalin has shown to be more stable than many others, but when the
plasticizer finally dries out of the plasticx, it's curtains for the piece.
In the thirties, plastics were all the panic. There were things shown in
plastics that were downright sensational. I'm sure that a lot of people
thought that glass would soon be made obsolete by gorgeous plastic things.
Well, my mother and my aunt didn't throw out their cut crystal, and I now
have a couple of cabinets full of it. 

In those days (that I remember so well), the automotive industry went
ballistic over plastics too. Today, there are guys who re-mold steering
wheels for those cars. The big plstic was Tenite I, a plastic by Tennessee
Eastman in Kingsport, Tennessee. You'll travel long and far to see an
original steering wheel on a prewar car!.  However, I have a '38 Cadillac,
with the original steering wheel, and still decent dash plastic, and you
just don't ever see that.

Which brings us to the Vogue records. Tom Saffady, a tool  and die maker on
East eight mile road in East Detroit (Across 8 Mile from Detroit) got the
idea of making these pretty records. I understand that he used an aluminum
base, attached the artwork to it, and molded the plastic to it, pressing
the recording in the same operation. While I don't know for sure what the
plastic is, I'm sure that  it's a vinyl, and of the best quality at the
time. When they hit the stores, they made quite a splash, and they sold
well, more for their novel character than anything else. No surprise, they
were priced higher than the major brand shellac discs, but their charm gave
them their value. Sadly, the novelty wore off, and Saffady wasn't able to
get the price down to meet the competition. He had tried to have a multiple
pressing rig, to perss (I believe) nine discs at once, but it never worked.
He folded, unfortunately, and his building later housed a cutthroat
department store caled something like Hall of bargains. One day, I passed
there, and the place had been gutted by fire, and not all of the walls were
standing. I believe that there is a fast food place on that site today. 

So, what about the plastic that Sav-Way Industries (Tom Saffady) used on
those discs? Astoundingly, it seems to have held up very well. Since Vinyl
plastics harden and shrink with age, I would worry about the Vogue discs
deteriorating at some time in the future. Plastics are not permanent, and
the newest Vogue disc is about 62 byears old.  The aluminum core will not
shrink, but the plastic could.


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/13/2008 5:02:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
> Doug, it's especially ironic that you use the phrase "the base in the 
> catalin game is crumbling".  Not just the base, but the cabinets
themselves. 
> Catalin degenerates steadily and eventually falls apart with age. 
Shoving a 
> bunch of money at catalin is like stacking time bombs on your shelf.  Not 
> unlike investing in Edison 4-minute wax amberols.  Sit them on your shelf 
> and listen for the steady "clink, tink, clunk" of the records 
> self-destructing as the temperature and humidity changes in your house. 
> "Investors" who sink a lot of money in these absurdities deserve what 
> they're going to get - a pile of dust before it's all over.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
>
> > Reading all these comments looks like the replay of a lot of collector's
> > panics over the years. I saw it with coins, back in the sixties, with a
> > friend who was into them, and I probably know of other similar
situations
> > as well. The price level spirals up to the point that the only exchanges
> > are from dealer to dealer. Dealers begin to get tired of getting the
same
> > item over and over, and somewhere, somebody stops buying. It  is then, 
> > that
> > the tower tumbles, and a lot of nspeculators lose a bundle on
now-lowered
> > value stuff.
> >
> > One thing that comes to mind right now, is the hunger for radios with
> > catalin cabinets. They've gone thousands of bucks for some models. As
far
> > as radios go, the chassis in them are 99.% cheap, and dinky. It's
the
> > pretty plastic cases that are the real issue. It isn't radio collectors
> > that want them. It's those who want the pret-ty colorful cabinets, and
of
> > course, the capital gains that result from the exchange of them.
> >
>

[Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values

[Douglas Houston]

Reading all these comments looks like the replay of a lot of collector's
panics over the years. I saw it with coins, back in the sixties, with a
friend who was into them, and I probably know of other similar situations
as well. The price level spirals up to the point that the only exchanges
are from dealer to dealer. Dealers begin to get tired of getting the same
item over and over, and somewhere, somebody stops buying. It  is then, that
the tower tumbles, and a lot of nspeculators lose a bundle on now-lowered
value stuff. 

 One thing that comes to mind right now, is the hunger for radios with
catalin cabinets. They've gone thousands of bucks for some models. As far
as radios go, the chassis in them are 99.% cheap, and dinky. It's the
pretty plastic cases that are the real issue. It isn't radio collectors
that want them. It's those who want the pret-ty colorful cabinets, and of
course, the capital gains that result from the exchange of them. 

On the surface, at least, there has never been any short supply of them.
There are dealers in the big rado meets, who have 20 or 30 of them on their
table. It's amusing that lots of sellers on the 'bay call a bakelite radio
cabinet Catalin. I'm sure that many a buyer has been badly  jostled by one
of those shysters, but the buyer should research, and know what he / she is
buying. Anyway, it's  now beginning th look like the base in the catalin
game is crumbling. There are signs that prices are possibly on the way
down, and I'd be delighted to see it happen. The cabinets are pretty; the
radios are garbage. 

One of the things that killed Vogue records in the first place was that
they never had a hit. I also recall that they were priced at $1.05, while
the major labels sold for $.75 I bought a couple of them, new back then,
not for what was on them, but because they were pretty.  Someone has
already said that Vogue discs are desirable, not so much for their
programmatic content, but their cuteness. Today, wise people are pulling in
their horns, and hanging on to their mazuma. We are already in an economic
slump, and it promises to get slumpier. I can imagine other scenarios like
this in the days ahead. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Stitt 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 8/13/2008 2:13:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
>
> Vogues went high after Ed Curry's book. Before the book they were
> cheap. I even found them at Goodwill.
> The market is very soft across the board. High prices bring more to
> market. eBay helped to do that. Collectors get all they need. I
> suggest Vogues in the market exceeded interested or new collectors
> entering into that market. Most casual collectors are content to have
> a few as they define a genre. Few want a complete number run
> (production run) at a $100 a pop. IMHO. The Queen for a Day a few
> years back went for "stupid money."
>  I have many Vogues and have little interest in them at those prices.
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Albert  wrote:
> > for sure, I got bit by the bug and bought up as many as I could trying
to
> > complete the collection and I almost did, but have probably lost about
half
> > of my investment.  I am missing the Transformer and Queen for a Day.  I
have
> > to assume those are still worth a lot.  Al
> > - Original Message -
> > From: 
> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
> >
> >
> >> Thanks for your interesting comment on the Vogues.  I agree with you on
> >> the
> >> reason for the drop in value of the Wurlitzer 1015, but I am not so
sure
> >> the
> >> same argument applies to the Vogues.  The 1015's were bought and sold
as
> >> entertainment devices, and the bars, etc. that bought them for 45s and
CDs
> >> could care less if they were original or reproduction machines.  On the
> >> other hand, vogues were generally not bought for their music content,
but
> >> rather as vintage collectibles.  Prior to eBay, collectors considered
them
> >> to be "scarce" items, and most record collectors, I would think, would
> >> have
> >> little interest in the reproductions.  Once eBay demonstrated to the
hobby
> >> that they were rather plentiful, the prices started to drop to the
current
> >> low values.  I don't know how well the reproduction Vogues are doing
these
> >> days, but I don't see them advertised very much (although I don't look
for
> >> them).  Whatever the reason for the price decline, Vogues don't look
like
> >> good investments these days :)
> >>
> >> Ray
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Albert" 
> >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 12:01 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vogue Picture Records values
> >>
> >>
> >>> Ray, I think Ebay actually raised the value of vogues and there was a
lot
> >>> of
> >>> activity for a long time on ebay. Many hit the market and it was not
> >>> unusual
> >>>

[Phono-L] Electric Credenza

[Douglas Houston]

Well, first off, get it, whatever you do. The electric motor is a big plus,
if you're going to play it very much, and I'm sure you will. I've had one
for 40 years or more, and love playing it. As far as the missing grille
parts are concerned, I'm sure that someone on thos board will be able to
steer you to them. 

You will see pictures of Credenzas, with three lower vertical bars in the
speaker grille, and some with the center bar missing. I believe that the
ones with the three bars were the very early ones. My 8-30X has two bars. 


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Date: 8/5/2008 2:22:14 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Electric Credenza
>
> I have first crack at obtaining an electric Victor Credenza VE 830x at a
very reasonable price, but it is missing part of the front grill (one of
the decorative grill sections), and was wondering if there is someone who
makes part of,or the entire grill for an 830, and how much it would be to
obtain one.) Any help that is provided would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] EBAY #310066418010

[Douglas Houston]

These things have appeared before. They were probably offered as an
inexpensive "upgrade" for your little phonograph.. It's pretty surely
commercially built, but a ling shot from period furniture! The Victor
Victrola looks better outside of that crate than inside it, methinks. 

There were schlock furniture stores in the teens and twenties, and that's
probably where that thing came from. 


> [Original Message]
> From: George 
> To: Phono-L 
> Date: 7/13/2008 2:21:36 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] EBAY #310066418010
>
> Anyone have any thoughts about this cabinet? Homemade or factory built
cabinet to fit your IX into?
> George
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-floor-model-Victrola-V-V-I-X_W0QQitemZ3100664180
10QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38030QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Phono-L] credenza question

[Douglas Houston]

I haven't measured the tone arm length, but on the earliest Credenzas,
there is no rear support for the tone arm, an the tone arm has a splice
joint in it. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Fraser 
> To: Antique List Phonograph 
> Date: 5/18/2008 9:00:23 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] credenza question
>
> just a quick question...
>
> early credenzas have the platter centered on the motor board in the  
> left-right dimension, while later ones have it offset to the right and  
> a record rest (two parallel wood bars with a pair of pads on each) to  
> the left.
>
> are the tonearms identical on the two flavors, or do the later  
> versions have a longer arm for geometric purposes?
>
> mine is early and i can provide the dimensions of its arm if that'll  
> help...
>
> thanks,
>
> -- Peter
> pjfraser at alamedanet.net
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Victor Credenza parts

[Douglas Houston]

Well, that's better than what I now have. Let's talk more.


> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Kasindorf 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 5/15/2008 5:25:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Credenza parts
>
> I have the electric back panels for a 4door but it is in Mahogany, not 
> walnut.
> -Barry
>
>
> Douglas Houston wrote:
> > I need a set of back panels for a Credenza. Mine is a 4 door model with
> > electric motor. I wonder how different they may be, though. I'd almost
be
> > willing to try, if you have them.
> > 
> > 
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Barry Kasindorf 
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> Date: 5/15/2008 1:16:01 PM
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Credenza parts
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I have parted out a 2 door Credenza and have case parts, horn, motor
etc 
> >> available if anyone needs parts before I Ebay them.
> >> -Barry
> >> ___
> >> Phono-L mailing list
> >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Victor Credenza parts

[Douglas Houston]

I need a set of back panels for a Credenza. Mine is a 4 door model with
electric motor. I wonder how different they may be, though. I'd almost be
willing to try, if you have them.


> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Kasindorf 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 5/15/2008 1:16:01 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Credenza parts
>
> Hi,
> I have parted out a 2 door Credenza and have case parts, horn, motor etc 
> available if anyone needs parts before I Ebay them.
> -Barry
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Re: Ada Jones

[Douglas Houston]

Ryan;

Today, I mailed you a printout of Milford Fargo's discography of Ada Jones
recordings. It's 38 pages long. He had also made a list of her cylinders,
and a copy of that is included. It runs 13 pages. To say that she was a
proliphic recording artist would be the understatemant of a long time.
There were some duplcations of performances, but those were ones where she
went from label to label, doing the same thing. I guess that all artists
did that in those days. I hope that all this helps, and will round out the
matrial on hand for this great artist.


> [Original Message]
> From: Ryan Barna 
> To: 
> Date: 4/13/2008 3:49:04 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Ada Jones
>
> Jones' grave is unmarked. Milford Fargo took a picture of it back in the
60s (which he sent to Jim Walsh, which I looked at last August at the
Library of Congress). Not only was it unmarked, but it was very unkempt
with weeds covering it.
>  
> Jones is not the only person with incorrect information on her death
certificate. Arthur Fields has the wrong birth year, age, and parents on
his. In fact, I don't think Fields ever legally changed his name (when he
applied for Social Security back in 1938, he applied as "Abraham
Finkelstein"), so it's possible that the name on Fields' certificate is a
false one! And what about Will F. Denny? A terrific singer of such
forgotten and amusing songs like "You'll Have to Get Off and Walk," "I'm
the Man That Makes the Money in the Mint," and "Up Came Johnny with His
Camera." Denny was traveling with a show when he died in Seattle in 1908,
and nobody knew who his parents were, or his correct age. And that's a
puzzle I'm still trying to solve.
>  
> At least three of us (including myself) tried to obtain Billy Murray's
birth certificate at the Philadelphia City Archives, but it was never
recorded in the birth registries (neither was Arthur Fields). The only
primary sources we have for Murray's birth is his World War I draft card,
and his Social Security application. And neither of Murray's younger
brothers were ever recorded in the Colorado birth index, because Colorado
did not require birth and deaths to be recorded by law until 1900.
>  
> This whole discussion comes to show that you can't simply rely on one
source for definitive background information. It's not my intention to
reproduce incorrect information on the Internet, but it's all the more
reason to share some of these original documents anyway -- to demonstrate
what was originally done, then correct them. I will definitely be
annotating the documents when I get a chance this evening.
>  
> In response to Douglas, I would definitely like to see the discography
that Milford put together. I also have some discography resources in which
I might be able to improve some of it, and I'd like to share it when I
create an Ada Jones section on my website. I'll let his wife Lois know
about this, and I'll make an effort this week if my friend can locate any
of Fargo's papers. I would be grateful for your help, Douglas. I'd hate to
start over again at square one when someone like Milford spent over 40
years researching and collecting detailed information regarding Jones'
life, some of which he probably never published. (This also makes you
wonder what will happen to your research when you're gone -- will it be
preserved someplace where future curiosity seekers will find it, or would
they have to start over from scratch? This is part of the reason why I
created Phonostalgia in the first place. At least if something happened to
me, most of my stuff [and others] will still be preserved and accessible.)
>  
> Ryan Barna
> www.phonostalgia.com 
> _
> More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live
Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh
_instantaccess_042008___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Two VV IX for sale

[Douglas Houston]

Hi, Ron. This story's been told thousands of times, I'll bet. One thing for
sure, she's not going to have a stampede about the stuff!


> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L 
> To: Antique Phonograph List ; Antique Phonograph
List ; 
> Date: 4/23/2008 9:31:34 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Two VV IX for sale
>
> I was contacted by a woman who has two VV IXs to sell.  One is an earlier
> version, footless, a version C with the female crank.  It looks like it is
> mahogany.  It is all there and working.  Case is in very nice shape
although
> allegatored.  It sits on a great matching record cabinet that, to me at
> least, curiously opens from the long side rather than what would be the
> front of the machine.  There is a Vic 2 on a gold elbow sitting loose in
> this machine.
>
> The second IX is a version G, also in nice shape.  The wood looks a little
> lighter and more like walnut but I don't think it is.  It also is
complete,
> working and in nice shape. 
>
> She is not sure what she wants for the machines and has a local paper's
> syndicated Antiques column with a common looking Victrola upright valued
by
> the column author at $1000!  I don't know if I've convinced her yet that
the
> author was greatly mistaken about that one.
>
> If anyone is interested in these machines, which are in Mansfield, MA,
> please contact me off list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron L
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Uncle Josh and Ada Jones

[Douglas Houston]

On the topic of Uncle Josh, I'm going back a long ways, but a minister in
the Carolinas, named John Petty, was THE Uncle Josh fan. I don't know if he
had accumulated a very extensive collection of UJ records or not, but he
was identified with the recordings. I'm trying to identify the year, and it
would have been before about 1994.He was a guy who worked on his car, and
something happened where the car slipped off the jack, and killed him. 

While I'm not an Uncle Josh fan, I often wonder what happened to his record
collection. We always hope that it fell to appreciative ownership. Sadly,
Milford Fargo's Ada Jones collection was dispersed on his passing. 


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/21/2008 10:59:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Uncle Josh and Ada Jones
>
> You should have sent a message to this list about Uncle Josh and Uncle
Josh 
> records. We have some folks on this list who are resident experts on the 
> subject.  Have you found alot of Cal Stewart Selections??
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ger" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:41 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Uncle Josh and Ada Jones
>
>
> I'm sure you folks know of this site, but just in case... I found it
while 
> trying to locate info on the Uncle Josh records. Boy, Uncle Josh does
ramble 
> on! He reminds me of some of the sales infomercial folks on TV. :)
>
> http://www.gregssandbox.com/edison/uncle_josh/bio.htm  bio of Cal Stewart
> http://www.gregssandbox.com/edison/uncle_josh/index.htm   Uncle Josh
records 
> to listen to
> http://www.gregssandbox.com/edison/ada_jones/index.htm  Ada Jones records
to 
> listen to
>
> I particularly like this site because the song play easily. Some of the
old 
> record sites won't work with my comp without some type of additional SW!
>
> Ger
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] "Elusive" machine on Ebay

[Douglas Houston]

Looking at the brunswick installation, I'd speculate that, from the drastic
tracking error in that thing, that a lot of records must have been
butchered over the years. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Dan Kjeldgaard 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/16/2008 2:46:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] "Elusive" machine on Ebay
>
> I'd take it, if I had the space and the price was under $100!  Probably 
> sounds okay, as the Ultona box and arm are not bad at all.
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "BruceY" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] "Elusive" machine on Ebay
>
>
> > Certainly a bizarre combination. The original owner must have wanted a
way 
> > to play his Pathe's and Edison Records on an Orthophonic Era Victor. I 
> > wounder what that did to the magnificent sound generated by the 
> > orthophonic credenza?
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: 
> > To: ; 
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:21 AM
> > Subject: [Phono-L] "Elusive" machine on Ebay
> >
> >
> >> The dealer says the details on this machine "Remain elusive" but the 
> >> components are "All original". It's a Victor that someone has fitted
with 
> >> a Brunswick Ultona arm. Will someone with more tact that I have please 
> >> elucidate the seller, who (it appears) will welcome information.
> >>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Victrola-Antique-Standing-Record-Player_W0QQitemZ2502374
54040
>
>
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Re: Ada Jones, Unmarked Grave

[Douglas Houston]

That photo would be dated by the crystal set. I would guess that she is
listening to a (vey early) broadcast, and if so, it would have to be
after 1920, when broadasting first began. She died shortly after 1920, as
we know, but we also know that she did very few public appearances because
of hre epileptic problem. Thus, her aged appearance would never have
mattered. Does that sound right?


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/13/2008 9:30:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Re: Ada Jones, Unmarked Grave
>
> Wow here is a photo of Ada, I had never seen before, I know she had
gotten 
> quite matronly over the years but in this one, she is extremely heavy. 
An 
> interesting photo of the First Lady of the Phonograph none the less.
>
http://bp3.blogger.com/_bdtuKKCTCf4/RtdCEcT1B3I/DXU/39kIJ5IW6Ns/s160
0-h/Ada+Jones+-+Telegraph.jpg
>
> Click on it and it will fill the screen.
>
> Bruce
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Loran T. Hughes" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Re: Ada Jones, Unmarked Grave
>
>
> > Brantley,
> >
> > Cemeteries keep records of who is buried where... even if the 
gravesite 
> > is unmarked.
> >
> > Loran
> >
> > On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:54 PM, kugl...@wmconnect.com wrote:
> >
> >> What I want to know is how did Milford know that this unmarked grave 
> >> stone
> >> was Ada's grave?  Now I am totally confused.  I think the CSI Miami 
> >> forensic
> >> team should get involved here.
> >>
> >> Brantley
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
> ___
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> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Additional Ada Jones Information

[Douglas Houston]

All of this makes me wonder if vital statistics were reliably accurate in
the days that Ada Jones was born; in England, or even in this country. For
instance, my father was born in a little burg in Tennessee, north of
Chattanooga. When he was 72, he wanted to apply for Social Security. He
contacted the Hamilton County records, and they showed him as being 70,
rather than 72. He had to contact relatives, still living in the little
town of Soddy, where he was born, and have them swear out an affadavit,
attesting to his accurate age. Later, in discussions with the kinfolk
there, it was speculated that the error was attributed to the census taker,
stopping at one of the houses on the street and simply taking down dates
that a neighbor blurted out from memory, which was not very accurate. That
saved the census taker time and trudging the dirt streets of the town. In
that day, who'da thunk that it would ever matter? 


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/12/2008 8:47:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Additional Ada Jones Information
>
> Still trying to pin down Ada's actually birth date via some sort of
bonifide 
> document. All the biographies give her birth year as 1873 which would
make 
> her 47 at some point in 1920 not age 44, and her death certificate gives
an 
> incorrect age of 40, couldn't someone at the time poor Ada passed at
least 
> make an effort to call or wire someone to obtain the correct information
for 
> her Death Certificate?!! and who gave the information to the Census
Taker?? 
> Seems he not only had her age wrong but the spelling of her last name
wrong 
> as well?
>
> Bruce
> - Original Message - 
> From: "wayne holznagel" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:36 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Additional Ada Jones Information
>
>
> >I believe I may have the right person . . .
> >  The 1920 census shows Hugh, Ada, & Sheelah (it's hard to read the 
> > spelling of this name).  They lived at Huntington, Suffolk, New York. 
> > According to this record:
> >  Hugh's age was 39.  He arrived in the US in 1886.  He became a 
> > naturalized citizen in 1917.  He came from England.  Occupation was 
> > theatrical.
> >  Ada's age was 44.  She arrived in the US in 1880.  She became a 
> > naturalized citizen in 1917.  She came from England.  Occupation was 
> > singer.
> >  Sheelah's age was 13.  Was was listed as "daughter".  The census 
> > information indicates she was born in England.
> >  If anyone is linked into one of the major genealogical web sites you
can 
> > obtain copies of the original information.  That would include, in many 
> > cases, copies of passenger lists, census information, probate records, 
> > etc.  I've been researching my extensive family history and, believe
me, 
> > it's there if a person wants to look.  I like ancestory.com but there
are 
> > other sites that provide good information.
> >  Just some information for the good of the cause.
> >
> >
> > <:)>
> > Wayne H
> >
> >
> > My website is at http://www.phonomantiques.com/
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
> ___
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> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Ada Jones

[Douglas Houston]

I'm trying to chase down the cassette that Milford Fargo made about Ada
Jones. I think that there were two tapes. One, about Ada herself, and the
other of several recordings that she had made. I should have them
someplace. I recall that Fargo told that she had made very few public
appearances because she was epileptic. I also seem to recall that he had
said that epilepsy had contributed to her passing. I should be able to read
that on the death certificate, but I'm not confident that I could read it
properly. 

Now, I may be totally all wet, but hadn't she also been married  to another
singing partner, like Len Spencer.?  Fargo's tape will refresh me on
that when I find it. 

Anyhoo, I am trying to locate the floppy with the discography on it, as
well as the cassettes (for what any of that stuff is worth), and when it
turns up, I'm going to transcribe it on a CD. That way, if there is
anything there that someone would want it, who doesn't have it already, it
would be a breeze to burn off a copy of the CD. 


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/12/2008 9:13:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ada Jones
>
> If I seem like a stickler for accuracy on this, and really would like to
see 
> the incorrect Legal Document corrected, it is because for the last 6
years I 
> have prepared and filed hundreds of Death Certificates on behalf of the 
> Funeral Home for which I work. Occasionally we are given false or
inaccurate 
> records by the next of Kin, and when that happens it legally has to be 
> corrected, usually via a Notarized Avadavat. There are also blocks on the 
> Death Certificate that legally have to be filled in or the Death
Certificate 
> will be rejected by the City, Town or State official reviewing 
> it.,especially the birth Date which strangely is missing on Ada's Death 
> Certificate. This is not only unacceptable, it is in fact illegal!! It is 
> unconscionable  to me that at the time of someone's death that the
parties 
> responsible for both providing and also recording this information
neglected 
> first to find it out, by either making a phone call or wiring someone who 
> would know it or have it on file, and then record it with an age that was 
> obviously a guess!!
>
> Bruce
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Ryan Barna" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:34 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Ada Jones
>
>
> I'm no Ada Jones expert -- I'm just citing some info Milford Fargo put 
> together many years ago.Jones was born June 1, 1873 at her parents' home
at 
> 78 [!] Manchester Street in Oldham, Lancashire, England, but her birth 
> wasn't registered until August 18th. She was baptized as "Ada Jane Jones"
on 
> June 15, 1873 in Oldham's St. Patrick's Church. Her parents were James
Jones 
> and Ann Jane Walsh. I haven't inspected any of these documents.Ada
married 
> the dancer Hugh Flaherty on August 9, 1904. This is according to the New 
> York City Marriage Index, which I have access to, so Ada's real married
name 
> was "Flaherty," not "Flarhaty" as the death certificate shows. Their 
> daughter, Sheelah Flaherty, lived from 1906 to 1936. Whether or not she 
> married with children, I don't know. Fargo mentioned in a July 18, 1981 
> letter to Ron Dethlefson that he had copies of both Sheelah's birth and 
> death certificates.You might be interested in knowing that Sheelah took
part 
> in a few records with her mother. She's documented in "The Golden
Wedding" 
> (Edison Disc 50513), and "A Day in Toyland" (Peerless Orch. with Jones, 
> Porter, Meeker, and Sheelah, Edison Disc 50673, Blue Amberol 3875). I
also 
> have the latter title on Emerson 1096 crediting "Orchestra with Toy 
> Instruments." Although the Emerson files had disappeared years ago, I'm 
> pretty certain I hear Sheelah in it. Ada Jones and Steve Porter are 
> definitely audible.Now, as far as Fargo's research and collection goes,
his 
> cylinders and discs where sold separately when he passed away in 1986
(the 
> Eastman School of Music, where he was the Professor of Music Education, 
> didn't want them--at least that's what his widow Lois told me). His
research 
> papers on Jones went with the discs, and I know the person who has them,
who 
> happens to be a good friend of mine. I asked if he wanted to photocopy
them 
> so I could give them a home on my website, but that depends on when he
can 
> find them. Plus, he has limited Internet access, so he can't really scan 
> them for me either. But Fargo's paper collection likely contains these
birth 
> certificates, primary documents regarding Ada, and probably other stuff
I'm 
> not aware of.As far as corrections to the death certificate go, I prefer
to 
> preserve historic (and legal) documents as they were, as not to "disturb" 
> history. I do agree on correcting errors, and I will apply these
corrections 
> on my site momentarily. Legally, I can't do anything to change the 
> certificate at the health department, but I know that 

[Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire?

[Douglas Houston]

Ron:  Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment 
intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. But, 
since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc  
carries  the stylus across the record,  it does so on an angle not done on an 
Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle. Since 
Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the disc, does 
this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the playing 
angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number of plays? I'm 
drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick phonograph for some 
years, but I seem to remember that  the B'wick head plays the DD at an angle, 
as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. And, by the way, while the 
Brunswick phono I had was in very good shape, the DD I played on it sounded far 
poorer than it had sounded on a DD player I once had. 

I'm assuming of course, that the stylus pressure of the Ultona (or any other 
head) would be similar to that of a DD player. We all know that Edison frowned 
upon anything but his players to play his records, but was there any technical 
substance to this, or was it simply Madison Avenue hype? 

> [Original Message]
> From: Ron L 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/10/2008 12:07:50 PM
> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire?
>
> Well, you can't use a DD reproducer on anything but a DD.  You could use a
> suitable adaptor in place of the DD reproducer, however to play another
> brand vertical record on the DD machine.   
>
> Diamond discs are not designed to propel the arm across the record.  However
> if the machine is nice and level and the arm is very free swinging, it will
> work.  I don't know if there is anything to be gained or lost sonically.
>
> Ron L
>
> -Original Message-
> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
> Behalf Of james n. vandrisse
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:50 AM
> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire?
>
> (J.M.J.)
>
>   What would the pro and cons be regarding the playing of other company
> vertical records on a C-19 or C-250 machine? And what about playing DDs on
> any other machines that the sound box can be turned to play vertical records
> with a saphire stylus? Are there any possible damages to records to be done,
> or any real fidelty or presences increased especially if playing Pathe,
> Lyric, Okeh, or other verticals through the 250 horn? I would like to try
> this on my machines but am waiting for any advise. Maybe I am best to just
> continue to play records, as I have been, on the proper machines?
>
>  __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
From lhera...@bu.edu  Thu Apr 10 13:07:15 2008
From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L)
Date: Thu Apr 10 13:07:44 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire?
In-Reply-To: <410-22008441020059...@earthlink.net>
References: <410-22008441020059...@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007401c89b46$78949ac0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu>

I don't have an Ultona head, I only have the simpler one sided one.   The
actual Ultona, as I remember it has a needle bar that looks just like a DD
arrangement.  I believe the head can swivel as well to mimic DD geometry.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Douglas Houston
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:01 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire?

Ron:  Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment
intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. But,
since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc
carries  the stylus across the record,  it does so on an angle not done on
an Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle.
Since Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the disc,
does this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the
playing angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number of
plays? I'm drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick
phonograph for some years, but I seem to remember that  the B'wick head
plays the DD at an angle, as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. A

[Phono-L] Artist Death Certificates (Ada Jones) Let us do rightby Ada!!

[Douglas Houston]

Many years ago, I had occasion to visit Milford Fargo in Upstate New York (the 
town name slips me just now)Fairport?  Well, anyhow, he was the guy who had 
researched Ada Jones as thoroughly as anyone ever had. He was certainly her 
strongest fan, and he had THE Ada Jones record collection. She had recorded on 
almlost every format of disc and cylinder that had ever been. Fargo had a 
variety of players in his study, where he had all of his Ada Jones records. I 
spent a couple of hours with him, learning about her and her performances.  I 
had brought along a Rex vertical recording that had been on his want list, and 
gave it to him. He was most pleased with it, of course. 

I left there with a discography that he'd composed, and it was very extensive. 
I shudder to think the work that went into it. I have lost track of the year I 
visited him, but he died not long after, and the record collection was 
dispersed, sadly. A few years after Fargo passed away, I set out to transcribe 
the discography into a Word Perfect file, and put it onto a floppy. I sent a 
copy of the disk to Phil Stewart, because he would be the best one to have it 
at the time (and yet now, I suppose). Fargo also had made a cassette about Ada 
Jones, titled "The first lady of the phonograph". In the tape (I also sent one 
to Phil), there are selected performances by Ada. Fargo had traced her origin 
and career rather thoroughly, and he told about it on the tape. 

I must have the cassette hereabouts somewhere, and I should transcribe it onto 
a CD, along with the discography  file. While Phil is still the best repository 
for that information, it seems to me that someone else should have a protected 
copy of it..or I wonder if others have that info now? Ideas, anyone?


> [Original Message]
> From: BruceY 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/8/2008 7:10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Artist Death Certificates (Ada Jones) Let us do 
> rightby Ada!!
>
> Not only did they not have the information about Ada Jones parent's names, 
> but her age at time of death on the death certificate is incorrect as well. 
> Every source that I have seen gives her birth year as 1873, that would have 
> made her at least 48 at the time of her death in 1922, but the age shown on 
> her death certificate is incorrectly stated as 40 years.  Her date of birth 
> is not shown on the Death Certificate. Makes you wonder about the 
> circumstances of her death and who was present at the time to give the 
> information to the Funeral Home preparing the personal information on Ada. 
> The informant is listed as someone named Armstrong. That is not the name 
> listed on the death certificate for her husband.  I am surprised that a Town 
> or City Clerk would even issue a death certificate without the required 
> information such as a the date of birth. That is the law!! I wonder if this 
> record could be updated and corrected at this late date. I suppose as in 
> most cases of Death Certificate adjustments, it would take a sworn avidavit 
> of next of kin to correct this. But I think we owe it the memory of this 
> great lady to at least give it a try. In order to correct this, the 
> acceptable party would need to submit certified originals of the proper 
> forms required by the City or Town where the Death Certificate was issued. 
> There is normally a fee for this service, but we would at least know that 
> this last known legal document issued concerning this beloved entertainer is 
> complete and correct as possible.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Ryan Barna" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:34 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Artist Death Certificates
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I just got done posting about 95% of my collection of phonograph artist 
> death certificates. If you ever wondered when some of your favorites died, 
> or what they died of, or what some of their real names were, or their 
> parents, or where they're buried, or if they were cremated, these death 
> certificates are a great source of information! I have not had a chance to 
> document some of the mistakes found on the certificates themselves, or type 
> out some of the hard-to-read handwriting (I hope to do both within the next 
> week or so), but this is such a fine collection that I couldn't wait to show 
> you. I think you'll find them fascinating in a sad manner.
>
> The URL is: http://www.phonostalgia.com/death and here's the first 21 
> certificates I've posted so far:
>
> Frank P. Banta
> Arthur Collins
> Vernon Dalhart
> Will F. Denny
> Edward M. Favor
> Arthur Fields
> George Gaskin
> Billy Golden
> Byron G. Harlan
> William F. Hooley
> George W. Johnson
> Ada Jones
> Jack Kaufman
> Harry Macdonough
> Billy Murray
> Steve Porter
> Dan W. Quinn
> Bob Roberts
> Joseph C. Smith
> Frank C. Stanley
> Walter Van Brunt
>
> And there's more certificates to come in the next few months. Be sure to 
> check out some of the other things I posted. A few days 

[Phono-L] Amusing Craiglist Ad

[Douglas Houston]

Those were the original source of rock "music".


> [Original Message]
> From: Michael Graziano 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 4/8/2008 3:57:14 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Amusing Craiglist Ad
>
> 
>
> Victrola Academy wiith needles and slate records - $350 (georgetown)
>
>

> Reply to: sale-634681...@craigslist.org
> Date: 2008-04-08, 10:10AM CDT
>
> Victrola Academy with needles and slate records. Excellent working
condition
> Moving sale. $350.00 or OBO. 512-819-0661/512-677-6039.
>
>
> 
>
>
> Gotta love those slate records.   I wonder if they play the Flintstones
> theme song, or that music from the movie "Caveman" with Ringo Starr,
Dennis
> Quaid, & Shelly Long.
>
> -Mike
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library

[Douglas Houston]

The thing is beautiful. I shudder to thnk what it weighs, though. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: 
> Date: 3/30/2008 4:11:13 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library
>
> Hey guys, here's a rare opportunity to score one of the most unusual
home phonographs ever made, the Seeburg Home Library:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Seeberg-Automatic-Record-Console_W0QQitemZ260223
421468QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>   In case you don't know what it is, this is the first 78rpm version
of the Seeburg Select-O-Matic record changer which was introduced as the
M100A jukebox in 1948.  It is full intermix - you can use 10 and 12 inch
records loaded in any order anywhere in the record magazine with automatic
size selection by the mechanism.  The M100A offered 100 selections, whereas
this version holds 100 records for a total of 200 selections.  This
mechanism was offered as the Seeburg Industrial/Commercial Music (SICM)
system housed in a huge steel cabinet as well as this home version as shown
in the wooden console.  This model includes the preamp, power amp, speaker
and 24-hour timer which can be programmed to start and stop the music
program numerous times over a 24-hour period.  This one looks to be in
complete and nice shape, too.  I have no financial interest in this item, I
just wanted it to find an appreciative buyer. Somebody here on this list
should give it a good home. It's very rare to find one of these, never mind
in this kind of good condition. 
>
>   Greg Bogantz
>  
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12

[Douglas Houston]

Looked at the Bandbox ad. That thing's as cute as a bug's ear. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Stitt 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/26/2008 7:40:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
>
>  Since we are on the subject of Juke boxes I have a Chicago Coin's Band
Box
> for sale. It is complete. The puppets are replacements and I have the old
> ones. It is in Oregon and I do not want to ship it. I might be able to get
> it to Union. I have pictures and could post them if there is an interest.
It
> is a speaker that is driven by a jukebox. When the juke plays the curtains
> open and the band plays. It is 2'x4'. Here is a link, not mine but a look.
> Even if  you have no interest worth the look.
>
> http://www.marvin3m.com/arcade/bandbox.htm
>
> Mike
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12

[Douglas Houston]

Greg;

Yeah, I have a pair of those beasts in the living room. These are the Patrician 
IV, which have the 18  inch woofer, Klipsch loaded.  They're being driven by a 
Fisher 800C. Like the guy in your message, I like to play George Wright 
recordings on them. He's pretty generous with the 32 foot pipes, and the E-V's 
go down below sound, and put the room in motion, or so it feels. They're 
seismic. 

Now, sit down and hang on for this one. The living room ones are in mahogany 
factory furniture. There are two others in the basement that were kits in their 
beginnings. I have my miscellaneous amplifiers and tape and disc players there. 
I haven't used the first one down there for a while, but it's patched to a 
Brook 10A all triode amplifier with a companion preamp. A friend from 
Massachusetts and I were fooling around with that stuff a few years ago, 
decided to buck the Patrician (I had only one at the time) against one of my 
Altec A-7's. The Altecs were fine speakers, but the Patrician blew the A-7 out 
of the water. As  good as the A-7's were they couldn't keep up with the E-V's. 
Because of space needs downstairs, I had to sell the Altecs. 

You want another? I have a collection of about 6000 78 discs. They're in 
cabinets in the basement. For auditioning the records, I have a Garrard 
transcription table, playing into  a Mcintosh mono preamp, feeding a Mac 30 
amplifier. It drives an E-V 12TRXB in an Aristocrat cabinet. It brings out the 
best in the shellac platters.  Audio stuff is a lot of fun. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/26/2008 5:32:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
>
> Doug, have you got a PAIR of Patricians?  You're only the second guy 
> I've heard of to own them.  For those who don't know what these are, they 
> were 4-way HUGE loudspeaker systems that employed a 30-inch!  woofer in a 
> corner-horn enclosure that was vastly efficient.  My friend who had them in 
> his basement could blow the windows out of the house with about 8 watts of 
> audio per each.  Needless to say, he liked to play pipe organ music.  LOUD 
> :o)
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
>
>
> > Thanks, Albert. I have one of those amplifiers, and I plan on re-capping
> > it. I worked in a radio store when I was a kid, and they had a record
> > counter. The audition amplifier was one of that model and, as you said, it
> > sounded good.  Speaking in general terms, frequency response in Juke boxes
> > was strongly peaked in the low end. The customers loved it, and I'm sure
> > that the restaurant owners had the treble turned all the way to full cut.
> > Anyway, that amp will probably sound good with a preamp, such as a Fisher
> > 80 nseries feeding it. I have a feeling that it's  better than commonly
> > thought. It's all about the transformers in it.
> >
> > Some time, immediately after the war, the Harmonicats did "Peg Of My 
> > Heart"
> > on the VitaCoustic label. The record began with four notes, then a deep
> > bass string. Whatever the jukebox in that place was, that bass note almost
> > knocked stuff off the walls. It was in a neighborhood soda shop where us
> > kids congregated.  I played that selection lots of times. I do have the
> > disc somewhere, and if I can find it, I'd like to play it on my E-V
> > Patricians some time. It'll probably crack plaster!
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Albert 
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> Date: 3/26/2008 1:24:49 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
> >>
> >> No actually most WurliTzer amps after 1937 are painted red with the
> >> exception of the W-800 which was gold and the counter models which also
> > were
> >> gold.   Yes the P12 and the 412 used the gold amps with the 45 tubes.
> > They
> >> really sound good considering the technology at the time.  I had Jukebox
> >> Friday night restore the amp on my 412 and it is awsome.  Funny you
> >> mentioned I had a mills for many years, I just loved watching the ferris
> >> wheel mech.  I did however install an Astatic 51-2 cartridge and removed
> > the
> >> weight from the head.  It didnt look as good, but at least I was able to
> >> play my Rhino records (reproduction 78's)
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> >> To: "Anti

[Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12

[Douglas Houston]

Thanks, Albert. I have one of those amplifiers, and I plan on re-capping
it. I worked in a radio store when I was a kid, and they had a record
counter. The audition amplifier was one of that model and, as you said, it
sounded good.  Speaking in general terms, frequency response in Juke boxes
was strongly peaked in the low end. The customers loved it, and I'm sure
that the restaurant owners had the treble turned all the way to full cut.
Anyway, that amp will probably sound good with a preamp, such as a Fisher
80 nseries feeding it. I have a feeling that it's  better than commonly
thought. It's all about the transformers in it. 

Some time, immediately after the war, the Harmonicats did "Peg Of My Heart"
on the VitaCoustic label. The record began with four notes, then a deep
bass string. Whatever the jukebox in that place was, that bass note almost
knocked stuff off the walls. It was in a neighborhood soda shop where us
kids congregated.  I played that selection lots of times. I do have the
disc somewhere, and if I can find it, I'd like to play it on my E-V
Patricians some time. It'll probably crack plaster!


> [Original Message]
> From: Albert 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/26/2008 1:24:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
>
> No actually most WurliTzer amps after 1937 are painted red with the 
> exception of the W-800 which was gold and the counter models which also
were 
> gold.   Yes the P12 and the 412 used the gold amps with the 45 tubes. 
They 
> really sound good considering the technology at the time.  I had Jukebox 
> Friday night restore the amp on my 412 and it is awsome.  Funny you 
> mentioned I had a mills for many years, I just loved watching the ferris 
> wheel mech.  I did however install an Astatic 51-2 cartridge and removed
the 
> weight from the head.  It didnt look as good, but at least I was able to 
> play my Rhino records (reproduction 78's)
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
>
>
> > Albert;
> >
> > Could you tell me which Wurlitzer  box  used the  amplifier that had a
45 
> > driving puish-pull 45's power amps? The chassis was painted gold
(as 
> > probably all  Wurlitzers   were).
> >
> > I was was amused at your  description of "going through grooves like a 
> > plow". When I was a kid, one of my friends' family had a Mills DoReMi
in 
> > their dining room. Rather unconventional place for it, but that's where
it 
> > was. Now, talk about a record plow!  The player had a Webster-Racine 
> > horseshoe magnetic pickup and the stylus pressure must have weighed in
at 
> > pounds.  Sure as shootin', I'd never have put any of my records on that 
> > thing. Lord, what a shellac grinder that thing was!
> >
> > But it had a really neat amplifier. Push-Pull 2A3's.
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Albert 
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> Date: 3/25/2008 10:32:45 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
> >>
> >> The P-12 is a great early Jukebox.  The only thing you will need to do
is
> >> lighten the tone arm and install a modern cartridge.  This will enable 
> >> you
> >> play your 78s without going through the grooves like a plow.  If it
has 
> >> the
> >> original amplifier you will find it has a very smooth tone with great
> >> fidelity and volume.  Subscribe to Always Jukin' There are hundreds of
> >> dealers and jukebox enthusiasts out there.  It is my passion.  I have
13 
> >> pre
> >> war Wurlitzers and well as Seeburgs and Rockolas.  My best source for 
> >> Parts
> >> is "Musical fun for everyone"  Bill Butterfield in Napa California.  Al
> >> Menashe
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Ken and Brenda Brekke" 
> >> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:01 PM
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
> >>
> >>
> >> >I recently was able to purchase a 1934 Wurlitzer P-12 jukebox.  Can 
> >> >anyone
> >> > on this list refer me to where I can purchase any service manuals or
> >> > parts?
> >> > Thanks in advance,   Ken B.
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Phono-L mailing list
> >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -- 
> >> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/955 - Release Date: 
> >> > 8/15/2007
> >> > 4:55 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Phono-L mailing list
> >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Fake auction for Columbia BY

[Douglas Houston]

Well, as a fatter of mact, Andy, I'm currently in sort of the same situation. 
Last December, I bid on a couple of radios a guy had for sale, and had the 
winning bid, Sent him a bank money order, and waited a couple of weeks. Sent 
him an e-mail, asking how all was going, and no reply. Another week, and the 
same thing. Subsequent e-mails, some through eBay, and no response. I began to 
send a negative feedback about him, and the 'Bay stepped in and wanted me to 
try to smooth it over THAT, they pay attention to. They said that they'd try to 
get the thing straightened out. Nothing has happened since, and I'm certain, 
never  will. My next move will to send a complaint to the post office for mail 
fraud. I had to do it some years ago, and it worked like a charm.  Once the 
mail fraud thing happens, I'll send a big negative feedback to the jerk. 

eBay is strictly a sales agent. There must be an unbelievable amount of garbage 
like this that goes on. Can you imagine the staff they'd need if they really 
did police it?  They would do well to just state policy that any disputes are 
the problem of the sellers or buyers, and be done with it. They're not fooling 
anybody.


> [Original Message]
> From: Andrew Baron 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/25/2008 8:47:43 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Fake auction for Columbia BY
>
> Hi all ~
> This is really frightening, and if anything adds my concern to a  
> number of you who have already expressed concern here on Phono-L,  
> about eBay not taking responsibility to make a safe environment for  
> buyers.  I understand that they rely on us to police auctions for  
> them, and give us a way to report illegal activity, but it's clear  
> that in this case it's only 'lip service'; there's nothing behind it.   
> At all.  Here is their answer to my reporting the illegal re-offering  
> of the Columbia BY recently, which was so obviously a fake auction  
> using a hijacked seller ID.  My original inquiry through their system  
> is below that:
>
> Dear Andrew,
>
> Thank you for writing eBay in regard to image and text theft.
>
> I reviewed your information about the possibility of image and text
> theft. At this time, I didn't find sufficient evidence to show that the
> member has violated any eBay policies.
>
> Please understand that in some situations members will allow others to
> use their images. It's also possible that the members acquired the photo
> from the same source or a source that we can't verify. If this is the
> case, eBay can't remove the listings.
>
> We will be able to take action only if the person who owns the image or
> text writes to us directly. If you feel strongly about this issue, I
> recommend that you contact the seller, informing him or her about your
> concerns and recommending that he or she contact eBay. Once we hear from
> the seller, we will then take the appropriate action.
>
> It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.
>
> Sincerely,
> Leonora
>
> eBay Customer Support
>
> Original Message Follows:
> -
>
> Form Message: %43401% 052901
> D_ID032420081105D_ID/W_ID140394085W_ID/S_ID000S_ID
> Subject: VE%X00135 Report link [110236619614 #US 01008T ?01 ]
> User Feedback: 464 
> User State: ?01
> Browser info: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US;
> rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071025 Firefox/2.0.0.9
> Home  >  Help Topics  >  Rules and Policies  >  Rules for Sellers  >
>   Rules about Intellectual Property  >  Item Description and Picture
> Theft > Report link; 65.19.26.202
> Item number(s) reported:
> 110236619614  [$US  US]
> Picture or text taken from item: 270217631060 [$US]
> What was copied: Not my listing, but Title, photos and description
> appear to have been stolen from a recent auction.  Note "seller's"
> instruction to contact via a different email to pay.
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
From cen...@comcast.net  Tue Mar 25 19:34:48 2008
From: cen...@comcast.net (Albert)
Date: Tue Mar 25 19:33:10 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] Wurlitzer P-12
References: <20080326020150.rtnv17353.aarprv04.charter@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <000701c88ee9$f624cc30$6501a...@home>

The P-12 is a great early Jukebox.  The only thing you will need to do is 
lighten the tone arm and install a modern cartridge.  This will enable you 
play your 78s without going through the grooves like a plow.  If it has the 
original amplifier you will find it has a very smooth tone with great 
fidelity and volume.  Subscribe to Always Jukin' There are hundreds of 
dealers and jukebox enthusiasts out there.  It is my passion.  I have 13 pre 
war Wurlitzers and well as Seeburgs and Rockolas.  My best source for Parts 
is "Musical fun for everyone"  Bill Butterfield in Napa California.  Al 
Menashe
- Original Message - 
From: "Ken and Brenda Brekke" 
To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:01 PM
Subject: [Phono-L] Wurlitze

[Phono-L] Edison C2 performance

[Douglas Houston]

I've heard an Edison C-2 once, though I don't know whether or not it was
restored to as-new standards. I do recall that it sounded good, though. The
C-1 and C-2 Edison sets used an interesting, and very unconventounal
speaker, It was a Peerless electro-dynamic speaker. But, instead of having
a vouce coil, wound with dozens of turns of wire, the speaker's voice coil
was a single turn of copper strip, and the secondary winding of the output
transformer  also had a single turn. The transformer secondary was coupled
to the voice coil by metal (copper?)  springs, which doubled as the
speaker's center suspension. To be sure, it was an unconventional speaker,
but it worked. It was a high-current; low voltage device. Because of that,
when the amplifier on those sets is serviced, it might be well to carefully
examine the critical connections between the output transformer and the
voice coil.  Any resistance in that circuit will drastically reduce speaker
performance. 

The circuitry in those Edison amplifiers should produce  as good audio as
most of the other designs of the day. Other than the strange speaker, they
were done to conventionally engineered. practices.


> [Original Message]
> From: jim...@earthlink.net 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/21/2008 9:48:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison C2 performance
>
> None of my C-2 chassis give ideal performance but I have an Edison radio
> with the same chassis & have connected the C-2 turntable to it and the
> sound is superb.   I had the repairman make the filter switcheable & never
> use it.   I don't find the surface noise to be excessive.All diamond
> discs sound better played this way than acoustically.   Strangely, some of
> the acoustically recorded diamond discs such as the Prelude to FAUST have
> true bass (sadly the Golden Gate Orchestra's acoustically recorded diamond
> discs DO NOT exhibit this bass where one would want it most - to hear
> Adrian Rollini's bass sax) & naturally the electrically recorded diamond
> disc reveal both bass & highs not heard with acoustical reproduction
though
> the "overload" distortion on some, oddly found on later electrically
> recorded dismond discs than earlier,  is still quite apparent.  I find the
> sound quality superior to my early Brunswick Panatrope as well as my
> Orthophonic Victrolas.  I look forward someday to having my C-2 chassis
put
> in proper playing condition - the performance through the Edison radio
> shows how they SHOULD sound.
>  

>   
Very
> truly yours,
>  

>Jim
> Cartwright
>  

>   
Immor
> tal Performances
>
> jim...@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Peter Fraser 
> > To: Antique Phonograph List 
> > Date: 3/21/2008 6:10:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison C2 performance
> >
> > I've been meaning to ask this for some time now...how do the Edison  
> > electrical reproducers sound, when playing diamond discs?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > -- Peter
> > pjfra...@mac.com
> >
> > On Mar 21, 2008, at 1:41 PM, "Bruce Mercer"  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes to all of the above. A C-2 I purchased some time ago had both  
> > > the 12"Roth and Martinelli records (among others) in the albums  
> > > along with a bunch of pop black with gold lettering on the labels.  
> > > Ha anyone ever seen a 10" classical with a gold label with black  
> > > lettering?  Needle cuts, as far as I remember were sold from mid  
> > > July to mid October 1929. They were superior sounding records.
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Phono-L mailing list
> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG. 
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date:
> 3/19/2008 9:54 AM
>
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Edison C2 performance

[Douglas Houston]

Interesting, and I could never agree more. I have had quite a few (and
still have) of the Victor, Brunswick, Sparton, and Majestic electrical
horseshoe phonos. I agree that Victor had superior sound with their speaker
that was, as Greg has said, unique to Victor's R-32 through RE-75 family of
sets. 

The Victor speaker was highly compliant. The cone was a fabric-based
material, and the center spider of the cone suspension was the same
material. The outer suspension was velvet cloth, and the cone travel was
probably greater than any other speaker up to that time.  It astounds me
how many of those cones are still in service today, 79 years after
manufacture.  The amplifier of those models underwent several modifications
during their manufacturing run. Many of those mods were not documented
anywhere. The Achilles' heel of that model was the speaker cone,
particularly the center spider mentioned above. If the volume on the radio
were to be turned up to excess, the amplifier could blow the cone to
destruction, by ripping the center spider right out. Evidently. Victor (or
RCA,by then) recognized that problem, and added some resistors in the power
amplifier to reduce the amplifier's gain, with hopes of saving the
speakers. They shunted the grid nresistor of the 26 first audio with a
second 500,000 ohm resistor. They then added another 500K resistor across
the grids of the 45 power amps. This did cut back the ngain, though it was
still possible to wipe out the speaker, if one were foolish enough, But
worse yet, it showed glaringly on reduced phonograph volume. This mod is on
quite a few of the amplifiers I've seen, and it is shown nowhere on
Victor's service data. I customarily remove those resistors on my own sets,
and on those of others, cautioning them against excessive volume. 

While I enjoy listening to the follow-on amplifier that appeared on RCA's
Radiola 86, Victor RE-57, and quite a few other models, It is true that it
was nowhere the speaker that was on the R-32 models. The R-32 speaker was
totally  bolted together, and was pretty surely a more labor intensive
design than those later models. RCA went on to use some fairly stiff
speaker cnes in the mid- thirties, probably  to accomodate the higher power
outputs of the amplifiers in use then. The RCA sets were not noted for low
bass reproduction, yet they were enjoyable to listen to. Back in 1928, at
the dawn of the dynamic speaker era (when they became more common),
Majestic outsold the rest of the industry, because of their heavy bass
output. They'd out-boom anything else in the store, and the buyers sucked
them up like a vacuum cleaner. With the critical ear of today's listener,
they border on being unbearable. But, not so in 1928!


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/21/2008 8:43:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison C2 performance
>
> I have a C-2.  The pickup is essentially the same horseshoe magnet 
> pickup design as used in most of the contemporary models sold by Victor, 
> Brunswick, Atwater-Kent, etc.  But Edison included a "scratch filter" 
> (Edison may have had another name for this, but I can't remember what
they 
> called it) module located under the turntable motor board which was a 
> resistive-capacitive low-pass filter.  This was ostensibly to filter out
the 
> "needle scratch" noise which was supposedly indigenous to needle-cut 
> records, according to Edison company blather.  Truth be told, it filtered 
> the noise from Edison DDs more effectively.  DDs have inherently lower 
> signal to noise ratio (are noisier) due to their low modulation level 
> compared to the typical electrical Victor record of the day.  This made
the 
> DDs sound particularly noisy when compared with laterals played on the
C-2, 
> so Edison included the filter which was not switchable.  Consequently,
all 
> records played on the C-2 are somewhat lacking in treble response
compared 
> with, say, the superior sound obtained from the Victor micro-synchronous 
> RE-45 or RE-75 of 1929 which also used a similar horseshoe pickup without 
> the scratch filter.  The C-2 generally has a tubby, boomy sound which is 
> fairly common with the early large console radios.  Again, the Victor 
> micro-synchronous radios were a major exception to the rule.  Their
advanced 
> speaker design is largely responsible for their superior sound - good, 
> well-balanced sound over the audio spectrum without excessive bass
boominess 
> while still providing extended bass response to quite low frequencies. 
> Curiously, this speaker (which is generally attributed to a Kellogg
design) 
> was used by Victor and/or RCA in only that one model year of 1929.  The 
> earlier and later speakers for many years were audibly inferior to the
1929 
> model.  I don't know why RCA didn't continue using the better design from 
> 1929 in their later models.  Probably had something to do with patent 
> royalties on the Kellogg design that RCA didn't wan

[Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles

[Douglas Houston]

Initially, I had chosen to pass on this one, but couldn't. How does anyone know 
what's valuable about anything?  There are two answers to it. If it is 
something that YOU treasure, it's valuable. The records you like are therefore, 
valuable to you. 

The second answer is: what records (or anything else) can be sold for the most 
money. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Thatcher Graham 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 3/7/2008 2:15:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles
>
> That begets a question for me.  How do I know what 78s in my collection 
> are valuable?
>
>
> noveltyt...@aol.com wrote:
> > We all know that the Grand Canyon was made by water running over rock. 
> > Anytime two physical objects contact, there is wear, or damage. That said, 
> > the 
> > reason I collect antique phonographs is because I like the sound for 
> > whatever 
> > psychological reason. While I will not play my Nordskog of Spikes Seven 
> > Pods of 
> > Pepper Orchestra on a Victrola, I have no problem playing almost everything 
> > else 
> > on some kind of antique phonograph. To be sure I always use a fresh needle 
> > and 
> > sometimes a fibre needle. I once played a Paul Whiteman record on a VV-IV 
> > as 
> > many times as I could to see if I could detect wear. I got sick of the 
> > record 
> > before I could hear an increase in surface noise. Victor had a wear test 
> > that 
> > in order to pass, a record had to be played 200 times without audible wear 
> > (would that Paramount had the same kind of standard). 20 times is more than 
> > I 
> > care to hear most records. I think we can play our records and enjoy them 
> > without 
> > pangs of conscience. When we are through with them they will, at best, be 
> > absorbed into archives where they will be played once, put onto digital 
> > media, 
> > and (the originals) never heard again! The digital copies however, with 
> > help 
> > from new copyright laws, may live again on MP3 players. In the mean time, I 
> > will 
> > play my Carusos (if I had a Zonophone I might make an exception), 
> > McCormacks, 
> > Original Indiana Fives and Bessie Smiths the way God intended, on a taking 
> > machine. Pardon my ramblings, I found this to be an interesting string of 
> > comments.
> >  
> > Phil Stewart
> >
> >
> >
> > **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & 
> > Finance.  (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301)
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >   
>
>
> -- 
> Thatcher Graham
> Senior Field Engineer
> ph. 610-578-0800 x214
> cell: 484-354-6918
> fx. 610-578-0804
> Mediaguide
> 1000 Chesterbrook Blvd. STE 150
> Berwyn, PA 19312 
>
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
From thatc...@mediaguide.com  Fri Mar  7 15:23:40 2008
From: thatc...@mediaguide.com (Thatcher Graham)
Date: Fri Mar  7 15:36:55 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles
In-Reply-To: <47d1c3eb.3080...@octoxol.com>
References:  <47d191da.5080...@mediaguide.com>
<47d1c3eb.3080...@octoxol.com>
Message-ID: <47d1ce7c.40...@mediaguide.com>

Rich,

I ask the question party for concern over wear. And partly because I 
have about a thousand more than comfortably fit in my apartment.  I 
don't want to toss something valuable just because it is not to my 
personal tastes. In that general arena I am totally ignorant.

-Thatcher



Rich wrote:
> How do you know that they will not be valuable in the future?  
> Remember, at one time the Vic VI and Edison Alva were considered 
> junk.  Well, grasshopper, do you want to take that chance?
>
> Thatcher Graham wrote:
>> That begets a question for me.  How do I know what 78s in my 
>> collection are valuable?
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org


-- 
Thatcher Graham
Senior Field Engineer
ph. 610-578-0800 x214
cell: 484-354-6918
fx. 610-578-0804
Mediaguide
1000 Chesterbrook Blvd. STE 150
Berwyn, PA 19312 

[Phono-L] Phono Serendipity

[Douglas Houston]

Considering the frailty and the potential for losing the cylinder wouldn't it 
make some sense to dub it onto a tape or a CD, and keep the original stored out 
of harm's way? I have several shellac discs that I value highly, and that's 
what I've done. 

If someone would squawk about the purity of playing the "real thing", let him 
continue to expose HIS stuff to the potential fate of irreplac eablr treasures!


> [Original Message]
> From: john robles 
> To: 
> Date: 3/5/2008 9:11:31 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Phono Serendipity
>
> This is another happy phono related story, but not nearly the calibre of 
> Eric's, though.  About twenty years ago I happened upon a Columbia 2 minute 
> cylinder entitled 'Poor John'. As my name is John, I bought it. There was no 
> singer listed, only 'Soprano Solo'. As it turned out, it was recorded by Ada 
> Jones, and more interestingly to me, it was announced by Ada Jones also. 
> There was no mention of Columbia Phonograph Company, the announcement simply 
> says "Poor John, sung by Miss Ada Jones" and then the song starts. I loved 
> the song, but sadly I broke the record. I looked for it for several years, 
> only finding it on an LP of Vaudeville songs sung by someone I can't 
> remember. Then I found it on an Edison cylinder, but it was not announced by 
> Ada Jones. 
>   This weekend, the GSPS group met at my house (California chapter of MAPS). 
> Scott Corbett told me that he had a present for me. There were two cylidners, 
> and one was the Columbia version of Poor John!! Better yet it is in mint 
> condition in  OBT! Talk about a great present. I told him I had been 
> searching for twelve years, but it is actually more like sixteen years!!
>   Anybody else have any records announced by the artist (other than Dan W 
> Quinn or some of the older brown waxes, when artist announcements were more 
> common)?
>   John Robles
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
From smil...@nycap.rr.com  Wed Mar  5 18:07:42 2008
From: smil...@nycap.rr.com (Sean Miller)
Date: Wed Mar  5 18:59:23 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] The one that did not get away.
In-Reply-To: <47cf428e.4070...@cox.net>
References: <47cf428e.4070...@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c87f2e$dcf695b0$96e3c1...@rr.com>

Eric, that's amazing, I remember hearing about that when it happened!  Ranks
right up there with my Japanese Lacquer finish Victor 130 I found about the
same time in beautiful shape, complete with its full set of custom albums
full of great records, key and extra reproducer for $500.

Lately, nothing for great finds here, but some very neat stuff over the
summer in these parts:

A like-new Victrola 130 in Mahogany complete with albums (full of nice
records too!), key and a Victor red "1000" needle tin, plus other nice
extras for $900.

A later oak Victor XIV in a waxed finish that looks new, but original traded
for some parts.  Also complete with all the albums and records and key.

A gorgeous original oak Cheney floor model machine with all the extras and
original receipt for $300

A nice Victor I with black painted horn, all original and (now) very nice
for $750

An even nicer, totally spotless original Victor II with horn as above for
$900

Lastly, a Triumph D-2 that is now "back to life" and nearly done with
everything with a wild green TCT painted horn and crane for $900.  Soon to
be upgraded with one of Don Gfell's nice oak cygnet horns.  I can't wait!

Sean



-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Eric Boyles
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:02 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: [Phono-L] The one that did not get away.

I have had a long dry spell on a good find.. my best ever was over 4 
years ago and was sold by a antique dealer on Ebay. While cleaning out 
some old files, I found copies of the Ebay pages themselves. Tbhere are 
three pages to click on. This was the days when the seller info remained 
availabe. The seller told me that he had many emails/calls regarding 
offering a higher price. Fortunatley the seller had integritiy and sold 
it to me at the won price. I had a friend who lived nearby make the hour 
drive and pick up the phonograph personally. I still pinch 
myself.. but am still looking for the elusive Opera at the same 
value..I hope the links work

It's been a little boring lately so "What great deals have you found 
lately?"

Thanks for looking
Eric

http://members.cox.net/66pony/Berliner/Berliner1.pdf
http://members.cox.net/66pony/Berliner/Berliner2.pdf
http://members.cox.net/66pony/Berliner/Berliner3.pdf
___
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Interesting Edison item on Craigslist

[Douglas Houston]

Terrific copy that you've done here. No bout adoubt it, your head's screwed
on right, and mighty tight, too. I feel that I may be preaching to the
choir here, but I want to offer you two interesting and informative
articles that spell out just who is running this country and, off course,
the whole world. Try these for enlightenment:

http://www.newswithviews.com/guest_opinion/guest82.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Hayes/gianni8.htm

And, if you can get an honest accounting on the Club of Rome, you may get
shocked out of your shoes. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Nichol 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 2/25/2008 8:03:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Interesting Edison item on Craigslist
>
> No, Edison did not sell Edison General Electric. It was a hostile  
> takeover by the Thomson-Houston Company (they bought up a controlling  
> interest in Edison General Electric's stock). The merged company was  
> under control of Thomson's managment, and renamed General Electric.  
> Edison was allowed on the board of directors, but quit after he  
> realized he had no authority.
>
> By the way, I work for GE.
>
> Jim Nichol
>
> On Feb 25, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote:
>
> >  Consequently, he created the Edison General Electric Company,  
> > together with some fat cash investors to handle the drudgery of   
> > dealing with the whole lamp and power distribution business.  When  
> > he needed more cash for his laboratory, he sold out his interest in  
> > the company to the fat butts, they dropped the "Edison" from the  
> > company name, and they went on to create one of the biggest cash  
> > cows in Murkan history.
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L]

[Douglas Houston]

I buy sleeves from Bags Unlimited in Rochester, NY. Their stuff is
beautiful, and nthey're some of the best people you can deal with. They
have a web site. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Thatcher Graham 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 2/3/2008 2:40:20 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] 
>
> I need to get some sleeves for my 78s. Can anyone make a reccomendation?
> I'm uncertain if I shodl be buying sleeves or jackets or from where.
>
> -- Thatcher  
>
>
>
>
>
> >> p://phono-l.oldcrank.org___
> >> 
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >   
>
>
>
> ___
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org

[Phono-L] Last Con Edison Direct Current Customer Is History

[Douglas Houston]

Edison was at a bad disadvantage in the area of power transmission. DC is
easy to understand. Once you get  Ohm's law and power law down, the DC
world is yours! But AC is another animal, that makes you drown in
mathematics, and that's what Edison couldn't grapple with. The senior year
in electrical engineering is a swamp of calculations invovolving power
transmission, phase angles, reactive power, and all that stuff. Poor old
TAE just couldn't handle it. He had quite a campaign for DC going for a
while, but AC was the winner. It could never have been otherwise. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Fraser 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/21/2007 10:58:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Last Con Edison Direct Current Customer Is History
>
> and this:
>
> Westinghouse responded angrily. "Yes, the alternating current will  
> kill people. So will dynamite and whiskey."
>
> On Nov 21, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Peter Fraser wrote:
>
> > i think i remember a quote from TAE during the time he and  
> > westinghouse were debating AC vs. DC in the public forum...which  
> > included bizarre demonstrations involving test electrocutions of an  
> > elephant and a condemned prisoner...that was along the lines of  
> > "Westinghouse's current will kill you all"
> >
> > came up empty, but in trying to find it, i found a sweet little page  
> > of TAE quotes:
> >
> > http://www.thomasedison.com/edquote.htm
> >
> >
> > On Nov 21, 2007, at 6:21 AM, msprin...@juno.com wrote:
> >
> >> My apartment building powered its elevators with DC current until  
> >> last year.  Many years ago Con Edison supplied us with a  
> >> transformer to turn AC current into DC current so they wouldn't  
> >> have to supply us with the DC current, and then finally paid us to  
> >> switch the elevators to AC current directly.
> >>
> >> -- "Loran T. Hughes"  wrote:
> >> Just in case anyone missed the news:
> >>
> >> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0328895.htm
> >>
> >
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>
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[Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs

[Douglas Houston]

I have one of the Electrolas (a XVI). I have seen those bulbs on various
occasions, and I'm inclined to believe that the original ones were frosted,
though I have nothing to back up that information. I'm inclined to believe
that, because a clear bulb will tend to give the operator a strong glare, 
a frosted bulb would give a softer light in the playing compartment. If you
can find one of those early bulbs, even burned out, try to determine the
wattage. I have a feeling that they were about 10 watts. 

And, tou'd play Hell, finding a bulb with the evacuation stem on the top!!


> [Original Message]
> From: Daniel Melvin 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/18/2007 6:16:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs
>
> I don't think I was specific enough. It's the machine is a 1921 Victorla 
> XVII Electrola with a bulb inside. The buld is 110 volt and has what is
now 
> called a candelobra base that a normal night light fits in. What I'm 
> wondering is if there was a certain type of bulb that would have been
used. 
> I don't think most of the modern bulbs that fit this type of fixture
would 
> have existed in 1921.
>
> Dan
>
> There are all kinds of lights that work
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs
>
>
> > Hold on a minute! There could be a couple of answers to this one.
> >
> > First, it'd be good to know the model number of the Electrola. Is this
the
> > tubular bulb in the phono compartment of such as the 9-18?  Or, might
it 
> > be
> > the dial light in the RE-45, 75?  If nit's the inside light, as
mentioned
> > in the original question, it's the tubular light. The smallest wattage
> > reting that I can find is about 15 watts. They seem to work out
acceptably
> > in the cabinets. I believe that the original bulbs were nearer to 10
watts
> > or so, but you just don't seem to find them  these days. Best thing to
do
> > is to use the smallest wattage you can find. It doesn't take much to
light
> > up those playing compartments.
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Andrew Baron 
> >> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> >> Date: 11/18/2007 4:49:35 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs
> >>
> >> Type 41 pilot lamp (screw base, 2.5 volt) if the socket is on the 2.5
> >> volt (tube filament winding) part of the power transformer.  If on the
> >> 5 volt part (rectifier filament), a type 46 (6.3 volt) should work.
> >> Both types should be available from Antique Electronic Supply and
> >> other sources.
> >>
> >> Andy Baron
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Melvin wrote:
> >>
> >> > Does anyone know what type of bulbs were used in 20s Eletrolas on
> >> > the inside light? There are a number of moderm bulbs that fit the
> >> > fixture, but I'm curious if the style of what would have been used
> >> > then is still available anywhere?
> >> >
> >> > Dan
> >> > ___
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> >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>
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[Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs

[Douglas Houston]

Hold on a minute! There could be a couple of answers to this one. 

First, it'd be good to know the model number of the Electrola. Is this the
tubular bulb in the phono compartment of such as the 9-18?  Or, might it be
the dial light in the RE-45, 75?  If nit's the inside light, as mentioned
in the original question, it's the tubular light. The smallest wattage
reting that I can find is about 15 watts. They seem to work out acceptably
in the cabinets. I believe that the original bulbs were nearer to 10 watts
or so, but you just don't seem to find them  these days. Best thing to do
is to use the smallest wattage you can find. It doesn't take much to light
up those playing compartments. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Andrew Baron 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 11/18/2007 4:49:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electrola light bulbs
>
> Type 41 pilot lamp (screw base, 2.5 volt) if the socket is on the 2.5  
> volt (tube filament winding) part of the power transformer.  If on the  
> 5 volt part (rectifier filament), a type 46 (6.3 volt) should work.   
> Both types should be available from Antique Electronic Supply and  
> other sources.
>
> Andy Baron
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Melvin wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what type of bulbs were used in 20s Eletrolas on  
> > the inside light? There are a number of moderm bulbs that fit the  
> > fixture, but I'm curious if the style of what would have been used  
> > then is still available anywhere?
> >
> > Dan
> > ___
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>
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[Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy??

[Douglas Houston]

The straight poop on this is at: 
http://sonoraman.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thr
ead=1193165940


> [Original Message]
> From: Dan-K 
> To: Antique Phonograph List 
> Date: 10/23/2007 11:04:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy??
>
> One of those situations where Guy1 bids $1000 near the end, sees that
it's not 
> enough, so puts in a HUGE high bid to be sure he wins -  but Guy2 has an
even 
> MORE gigantic "overbid", so he beats Guy1's $10k automatically & Guy1
wisely 
> quits.
>
> The fun of blind bidding .I wonder if Guy2 will actually fork
over the 
> Ten Grand
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "BruceY" 
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:23 PM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy??
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130163207298
>
> Wow!! Take a look at this one. I have never seen one of these rare Edison
WW1 DD 
> Phonograph Oddities sell for this much money, and this one even has many 
> non-original parts (see the description) and photo.
>
> Bruce
>
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[Phono-L] Variety in collecting.

[Douglas Houston]

The modifications of artifacts, such as our phonographs were probably more
frequent than we could know today. The one on eBay that Dee Dee speaks is
surely a good example of one. In my own eyes, the blue-gray interior makes
me sick to see the picture, but the art work on the exterior could be
palatable to me, because it's infinitely better than abstract "art"!!

Now, since I'm a car collector, there are some interesting thoughts about
that. I'd expect that an aftermarket conversion of a Mustang by Shelby can
be regarded as authentic, as Mustangs were converted by him before
deliveries. In 1956, There were a few Chevrolets converted by the R.
Allender Co., in Detroit, and labeled: "EL Classico". (They should have
selected a less cheesy name) . They are accepted as a new conversion. Many
cars that the classic car club accepts as classics had conversions done by
established coach crafters after delivery, and they are judged as
authentic. 

Since the Claassic era (1925-1948), there have been some Cadillacs that
were altered by "custom" shops that  in my mind, are the most sickening
examples of vulgar exhibitionism ever to roam the highways. I have to
wonder wha attitudes will be about them in futuer years. They'll be rare,
of course, but so's a 100 year old cow flop!


> [Original Message]
> From: DeeDee Blais 
> To: 
> Date: 10/16/2007 12:46:33 AM
> Subject: [Phono-L] Variety in collecting.
>
> Isn't it wonderful that we have such a variety of
> machines to collect.  It would be truly boring if
> Edison only made the Home model but they didn't.  Have
> you ever wondered why someone would originally pay
> extra for a mahogany Triumph with a nickel bed plate? 
> Wouldn't that cost about as much as a Idealia or
> Opera?  I'm glad people made those decisions because
> now we have machines that are rare and desirable.  The
> Victor company sold decorated machines that are
> nothing short of wonderful.  Today, they are prized in
> any collection.  Victrolas were decorated after they
> left the Victor factory often by a dealer for a
> customer.  Perhaps the original owner commissioned the
> decoration.  I don't know but I love these machines
> also.  I think they are valuable, original, and very
> interesting.
>I have the 1965 Mustang fastback that my Dad
> bought new.  I love the car.  It has a V-8 and 4-speed
> but it's a basic Mustang.  Do I wish that Dad had sent
> his brand new Mustang to Shelby for modification? 
> Yes! Yes! Yes!  I would consider such a car to be an
> original Shelby Mustang.  I could take my old Mustang
> and have it modified to be a replica Shelby but in my
> opinion that would be a waste of time and money and a
> disservice to a classic car.
>  I think the same comparison can be made with
> Victrolas.  A machine modified shortly after its
> manufacture I consider to be original and correct. 
> Perhaps that's the only way the original owner could
> get his VV-IV decorated.  I've seen photos of that
> machine and I'd love to have it in my collection. 
> Happy collecting, Jerry Blais
>
>
>  


> Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
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