[pinhole-discussion] PS4 (and sepia toner question)
Hi all, I'd be interested in participating in a swap, having not done so before, but would want to know what I'm getting into before committing. Is it possible for us to decide first what the theme is (if any) and how many people will be involved? In other words, I'd be interested only in participating if the group was small enough that I could be sure I would have enough time to get prints out. In an off-topic, by-the-way sort of question, does anyone out there have first-hand experience with the differences one is likely to get toning Ilford's Warmtone Multigrade paper developed in Multigrade developer and using various SEPIA toners? If so, please contact me off list, I'd like to compare notes. Thanks Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Dan Burkholders Book
ISBN 0-9649638-6-8 Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Silver prints from digital files?
I recently saw lightjet prints for the first time. They are beautiful. Someone here has suggested that they are not good for B&W because of a limited tonal response at the black end of the scale. I don't know if that is true, but for color, the prints are stunning. My understanding is that the print is made on traditional color print paper using the same chemicals always used. What is different is that the exposure is made using digitally controlled color LEDs that pixel-by-pixel expose the paper. The result is a traditional color print with the advantage of the vast control offered by digital technology in making the exposure (by adjustments to the digital data in the file controlling the printer). This looks like a very useful technology for people working in color. People definitely ARE exhibiting these prints in juried shows and doing very well. Prints of poster size from 35mm negatives looked indistinguishable from traditional prints. Black and white seems to be another issue. It is certainly possible to create ordinary silver prints in an enlarger (etc.) using a negative that has been created from digital data (an extra step that the Lightjet technology does not require). I haven't tried this, but there are books (and Internet articles) on the subject of handling the data in order to get good output. Once a good negative is achieved, the printing process is identical with traditional processes and the result (a silver print) also should be the same (assuming the negative has been done properly). The beauty of this is that all the dodging and burning is done once in the computer and embedded, so to speak, in the digital data so that no maniplation is later required with the negative in the enlarger. I have seen color positives made this way as an intermediate step for commercial printing. If done correctly, the output I've seen shows no pixelation or other evidence of digital artifacts, but I have never actually seen an "art" print made for exhibition and on photographic paper (as opposed to commercial printing--book covers etc.) from a digital negative or positive, color or B&W. If anyone has, I'd be interested to know what they thought. The piezography technique for B&W is essentially a high-quality inkjet printer using archivally sound inks. I have seen these exhibited as well, and what I have seen is, for the most part, beautiful, but these are not silver prints. I wonder about the need to worry about that. I haven't made up my mind, but tiny dots of ink on paper forming an image is really no more mechanical or any less authentic, it seems to me, than tiny specs of tarnished silver doing the same thing. The critical question in my mind is whether the digital printing can match the subtletly we KNOW silver is capable of. It is not at all clear to me yet that that is the case. To go back to the above, I get the feeling from what I have seen that Lightjet for color is capable of matching ordinary color printing (although I have not seen nudes done with the Lightjet technology (see below)). I was so impressed by what I saw at a recent show including both Lightjet color prints and B&W piezzography prints that the following day I took a B&W negative and a master print to the shop that did the work I saw to have an example done to see how well the process fit my own work. So far, I've had a high resolution scan made (creating a 66Mb B&W file--the equivalent of a 200Mb color file at the same resolution) and looked at proofs on high-quality rag printmaking papers. The exhibited prints I saw were great. My own work, so far, has looked disappointing. I am having one of my nudes done and, so far, my impression is that delicate skin-tone gradations may be just beyond the limits of the process. Note that I am talkin about VERY small differences, here, but at close quarters, the print looks noticeably less subtle than the master (silver) print. I have not seen the final output yet (in a couple of days). I will report back. I suspect that landscape and other subjects put less "stress" on the tonal separation than do large expanses of flesh (and perhaps Lightjet color nudes would be disappointing as well). Anyway, I hope that is helpful to the person who posted the original question about silver prints from digital files. Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Re: [pinhole-discussion] authentic space
Authentic space. Interesting idea, and I like the sound of the words, but I am having trouble undertstanding exactly what we are talking about. Spaces true to their historical context? Perhaps that just means spaces that have failed to keep up with the times. There is a barber shop near where I live that was built in the 1940s, I would guess. I've never been in it, but from the street it looks like a movie set--the old-fashioned leather chairs, enamel sinks, the hand lettering on the window glass. Is this an authentic space? I think you could argue either way equally convincingly. Authentic because unchanged and therefore, in a sense, true to its times, but at the same time an anachronism and not authentic because its "times" no longer exist, not authentic because it is clearly out of synch with the only times we in fact have, these times. Is it suited to pinhole because we tend to romanticize the simple and elemental qualities of the process and connect them with nostalgia for times past? The most vulgar expression of this may be those sepia photos you can get dressed up in "old West" clothes. I also remember once standing in front of an innocuous government building in Tokyo built in the Victorian style. I suddenly noticed a plaque noting that it had been the Japanese Army's general headquarters during the war. Suddenly I wanted the place to feel evil. No matter how hard I tried, though, it was just an old building. It was not responsible for the actions planned in it. I decided then that places have no memory. I've had the feeling looking at battlefield sites that were empty fields. Makes me wonder if space can objectively be called authentic or inauthentic at all. I doubt it, somehow. It seems to me more a matter of whether the space resonates at the same frequency we happen to be vibrating at as we gaze at it or as we think about it. Just some thoughts on the subject as I sit here avoiding work I should be doing... I, too, would be interested to hear what other people think. Especially interested in why people think authentic space, if there is such a thing, is a pinhole kind of thing. Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Pinhole nude question
Didn't mean to discourage pinhole at all, just wanted you to be aware of the problems I had had. Give it a try, by all means. Just be sure you have a cooperative model or at least a comfortable one! Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Pinhole nude question
Hi Catherine, Thanks for saying you like my work, and I'm glad to hear that looking at it was of help. Thought you and anyone else interested might find it useful to know that those three nudes (including the one you mention specifically) were all done indoors usually with one 500 Watt light. The film was T-Max 100. Exposures with a lens were usually 4 to 16 seconds at f=16 if I remember correctly. The pinhole exposures usually were about 20 minutes at the least, often more like 30, and sometimes as long as 40 minutes. It's not a coincidence that the pinhole poses are mostly reclining. That's about the only way to stay still for that length of time. Often the model would fall asleep! I can remeber a session or two during which I set up the pinholes, let them go, spent 10 or fifteen minutes doing lens photos, and still had time to get out a sketchbook and do some drawings before finishing the pinhole exposures and setting up a new pose! Colin __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Pinhole nude question (was another question)
Hi Catherine, I've done a fair amount of nude work with pinholes, zone plates, and lenses. In fact, I began using zone plates to deal with the biggest problem I was having in this area--the long exposures were really hard on the model (it didn't help much). This may be a problem especially if your interested in a dreamy look that may require low light situations. For what it's worth, the zone plate exposures weren't that much faster than the pinhole exposures. They were still so long that only the most intrepid models are capable of holding them--blurred effects that result can be interesting, of course. One method that did help was to find an interestig pose that had possibilities from a number of angles and then to use multiple cameras to get two or three pinhole shots out of a single long pose, but the wide angle of most pinhole and zone plate cameras means you often have to set up very carefully to avoid getting one of the other cameras in the picture! You might find (dare I suggest it) that traditional photographer tricks like gauze or vaseline on a filter using a lens may achieve the effect you are looking for with far less hassle than pinhole or zone plate. I am assuming here that the result is more important to you than the process (which may not be true). Anyway, the biggest frustration has been model fatigue. That can be compounded by the fact that you may be paying for a model's time and it's expensive to pay $20 an hour or so and only shoot two negatives! Very fast films may help too, if you don't mind the grain. There are at least three pinhole nudes on my websites. If you are interested, go to: http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/camerawork/ That will take you to my lens site, but it has links to my pinhole site and to my nude photography site at the bottom. Hopes this helps. __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
RE: [pinhole-discussion] Film for sale, etc.
Apologies, that was dumb of me. The film is 8x10. I think the list price is about $65. Colin ctalcr...@yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Film for sale, etc.
Hi list, Finally about to get started building a new darkroom and need to raise some cash. Thought someone here might be interested. I have one 25-sheet box of Tri-X film I'd like to sell. It's factory sealed and been properly stored (expires December 2003). I'd like to get $55 for it, buyer pays postage (is it safe to mail in ordinary mail, I wonder?). Also, I have a nice Meade 4" telescope with tripod for sale. If interested in either, contact me off list. Sorry this is off topic, but thought a pinholer might be able to use the film. (Both items are in northern California). Colin P.S. Also slightly off-topic, but I think there was a discussion here not too long ago about digital printing. Just wanted to say that yesterday I saw actual prints done using the Piezography system (B&W) and the Lightjet system (color) for the first time. They are simply beautiful. First thing tomorrow morning I am making an appointment with the local company doing the work. I want to learn all about it. __ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Colin Talcroft new image
Hi everyone Just added an image to my pinhole site--the first in at least a year. I'm so far behind! Still haven't developed my Pinhole Day roll from this year OR the year before. Anyway, sorry it's only one image, but I rather liked it. As always, comments etc. welcome. Thanks for looking. It's at http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/Frameandlight.html Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Cannon A-1 Pinhole
--- Colin Talcroft wrote: > > I think the perhaps unusual thing about the OM-2 is > that it ALWAYS does the off-the-film thing, > adjusting > exposure during the exposure if the light changes. > > Colin > > --- Derek Clarke wrote: > > Canon use off-the-film flash metering in "TTL" > mode. > > These days they offer > > E-TTL which use preflash and the main body meter > > sensors, but for every > > body but a digital one you can set the flash to > TTL > > mode manually. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > ___ > Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Cannon A-1 Pinhole
I think the perhaps unusual thing about the OM-2 is that it ALWAYS does the off-the-film thing, adjusting exposure during the exposure if the light changes. Colin --- Derek Clarke wrote: > Canon use off-the-film flash metering in "TTL" mode. > These days they offer > E-TTL which use preflash and the main body meter > sensors, but for every > body but a digital one you can set the flash to TTL > mode manually. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Cannon A-1 Pinhole
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this off-the-film-plane metering isn't as unusual any more as it once was. I apologize for forgetting that cameras have continued to evolve since then. I kind of got stuck in time with the OM-2. I haven't kept up with SLRs since I got the camera, which was a quarter of a century ago now! As I said in my previous post, the meter is great for pinhole (and everything else) in most situations that don't require VERY long exposures. I would guess that using the B setting and timing with a wristwatch and making all the usual pinhole exposure estimations is still the easiest way to get good results with a body cap pinhole or zone plate on an SLR. When I first started doing pinhole body caps I used to use my Yashica TL-500 Electro. I would simply screw off the lens and cover it with tin foil and then prick a hole (or several) in the foil. ASA 200 Ektachrome slide film was my film of choice at the time (I'm still looking for these pictures. They're around here somewhere). I controlled the expesure with the B setting and a cable release. It worked great despite the reflective surface of the foil, which, in retrospect, is kind of surprising. Nowadays you can sometimes pick up old cameras like this for a few bucks in the "junk bins" of camera stores. They are fun to experiment with, but, of course, any old light-tight box will do. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Cannon A-1 Pinhole
Yes, I too was going to reply to the question about the Canon A-1 with a word about the Olympus OM-2. I'm glad someone mentioned this. I have a vague recollection of when I bought my OM-2--the only SLR I have ever owned--reading in the manual the section that explained that the auto exposure meter continues to read light from the film plane after the shutter has opened and will end the exposure or extend it as appropriate if light conditions change after the shutter has been depressed. I am not aware of many other (any other?) cameras that do this. I am not even sure that many other Olympus cameras did this. I'm pretty sure the OM-1 does not. OM-2 bodies are often available used. They are fairly pricey, however. They are more expensive now than when they were new. I remember in Japan a body in good used condition was usually about 35,000 yen, just under $300 today. I think mine was about $200 when new in 1977. No doubt they appear on E-bay, but I don't know. Anyway, I regularly use mine as a pinhole camera with a body cap pinhole. I've found that outdoors in bright light with ASA 1600 film (or even 400) you can use it handheld pretty easily. It mounts on a tripod (naturally!) for indoor work. A fair number of the pinhole photos on my pinhole site were done this way. (http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/). The other end of the light spectrum would be the nudes on the same site, which were done with the same body cap on ASA 100 film indoors using a tripod. It's been a while, but I remember the metered exposure through the pinhole (a laser-drilled hole of about f=143) was generally 8-30 seconds in the low light "studio" conditions (at night with one, sometimes two 300W bulbs). I remember the result usually was a gross underexposure, so in very low light situations I'm not sure the OM-2 meter alone can be relied on to do anything special that is useful for pinhole. It remains a beautiful camera, nevertheless. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] FIlm reciprocity Fuji Neopan
Thanks, Will have to try the Neopan Acros. Are those reciprocity times someone posted (lack of reciprocity failure times, that is) real? Seems extraordinary. Been using T-Max 100 exclusively for the past five years after a year or two of Neopan SS exclusively. Maybe it's time to go back to Fuji. Colin > Acros is Fuji's new 100 speed black and white film, > and unfortunately it is not a repackage of SS, just > a new film. I too am a great fan of Fuji's black > and white materials, and work that I have done with > across shows that it is an amazing film - > incidentally, it is a great substitution for tmax > 100 which was just reformulated (again). Not to > quote Darth here, but all you Kodak shooters should > come to the dark side. > Don > Colin Talcroft wrote: Just > wondering, is Fuji Neopan Acros color or black > and white? I was a big fan of Neopan SS when I lived > in Japan, a B&W film, but never came across a film > called Neopan Acros. > > Thanks > Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] FIlm reciprocity Fuji Neopan
Just wondering, is Fuji Neopan Acros color or black and white? I was a big fan of Neopan SS when I lived in Japan, a B&W film, but never came across a film called Neopan Acros. Thanks colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
RE: [pinhole-discussion] help with indoor exposures needed
Hi Sarah I'd say much the same as Chuck. Do some experimenting and it's remarkably easy to begin to get consistent indoor exposures, especialy if you stick to the same camera and film combination for a while. After a while, you'll just know the light. Using a Zero 2000, for example, and T-Max 100 film, I have found that about 2 seconds works in full sunlight, and anywhere from 8-30 seconds in various depths of outdoor shadow (and up to about 3 minutes as dark approaches). Indoors, I find that a very brightly lit shop or office (a whole ceiling of fluorescents, for example) requires six to 12 minutes. A bright average interior requires about 30 minutes at least, but my rule of thumb indoor exposure for this camera/film combination is 45 minutes unless the room is VERY brightly lit. Give it a try. Remember, in low light situations, chancing of under exposing are much greater than the chances of overexposing. If in doubt, give it more time. Hope that helps. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
RE: [pinhole-discussion] poem2002 + Edward Levinson
In an idle moment I once did a web search on my own name. I was amazed to find photographs of mine used without permission on sites literally all over the world. I do it now periodically just to keep tabs on who is using what and so that I can object when something has been used in a way that I don't approve of--which, in my view, means when someone is making money of work. Try it. Also, try doing Web searches on the file names of some of the images you have posted on the net. You may be very surprised again to find them used elsewhere. Your name, of course, will only bring up uses where the borrower has given you credit. This method won't turn up instances where the user hasn't given credit and has changed the file name. I just thought of it, but it might also be interesting to use the search engines that have image search functions. Often you can search for "similar" images. Might be revealing to bring up one of your own photos and then use the "similar" function. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Photo flo sub
Ah, thanks and forgive me. I must have missed the original posting. I have a bottle of the stuff (Photo-Flo) in front of me. The active ingredient is: p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethanol alcohol I think the key is that this is a very neutral surface-active agent. While detergents, too, are surface-active agents (or surfactants), they are much more than that as well--fragrances and colorings, etc. are added. In a pinch I'd still say it would be better to use the old fashioned "finger squeegee" technique and then air dry than to put other stuff such as detergents on the negatives. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Photo flo sub
Forgive me, but I find this Photo-flo thread slightly amusing. Photo-flo is cheap and it works. A bottle lasts me a couple of years. Why go to the trouble to even think about a substitute? Am I missing something? Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Type 55 "holding tank"
Yes, this has been on my mind, too. I was thinking maybe a Tupperware container of the right size? > My question to those of you who use Type 55 in the > field is this, "How do you > keep the negative moist until you get home > Thanks > dalf...@aol.com > > ___ > Post to the list as PLAIN TEXT only - no HTML > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Disposing of chemicals
Someone was wondering about disposal of chemicals, a subject that has often bothered me. I did a little research by calling photo suppliers and local poison control people. There was surprisingly little information, but the consensus seems to be that most developers and stop baths are fairly benign and can be disposed of down the drain if well diluted (leave the water running). Spent fixer contains silver and therefore should not be disposed of this way. I keep a big plastic jug and store the stuff until the next toxics drive. Here in the US these drives are fairly common. When I lived in Japan there was no way to do this, so I had to just dump it, which always made me feel terribly guilty. Photoflo and other wetting agents are esentially mild detergents. These are OK. Selenium and many other toners are highly toxic and should not be dumped. There was some talk about alternative stop baths recently on the list. I guess things like citric acid and ascorbic acid would be even safer, as they are edibles. I am talking about B&W chemicals. Color processing chemicals are entirely different, of course. If anyone knows more about this, please let us know. I don't want to pass on misinformation, so speak up especially if I am wrong about any of this. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Nearly Off Topic
This list is really great fun--everything from discussions of the physics of image formation and meaning of the passage of time to the intricacies of using ABS pipe to develop film to home brewing. I am currently doing the research to plant about forty vines in my back yard to start making wine (leaning toward Zinfandel and Petite Syrah). I don't see any connection with pinhole photography, but I am also preparing my first beehive, which I hope to stock with bees in April. Now there is a parallel--closed box with a small hole at the front and an infinity insideand somewhat unpredictable. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com
[pinhole-discussion] Slit images
Hello everyone--Happy New Year I was recently in Tokyo on a business trip and didn't have many early appointments. Tending to want to sleep in, I would leave the heavy hotel room curtains closed at night so the early morning sun wouldn't wake me. One morning I was delighted to wake up to see an upside-down image of the scene outside projected on the walls of the room--created by a slit where the curtains didn't quite close. Just goes to show that even an extremely crude slit or hole will form an image! Reminds me of my very first experiments with pinholes in high school in the 70s--all I ever did was punch holes in tin foil with a pin and then tape the foil to a camera body. Worked fine. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] editions
I, too, have at least as much experience with printmaking as with photography. Numbering or not is entirely a personal choice, it seems to me. What does seem important is that you do it, if you choose to, in a way that is consistent and one that simply and honestly tells the consumer (and reminds you!) about the size of the edition, rather than in a way that hides information about it. Print numbering has been grossly abused by some to make fine art editions essentially into printed matter--in the sense that the post office uses the phrase. There's nothing wrong with making lots of prints (photographic or whatever) and making unlimited numbers, if that is the choice, but it should be clear to any potential buyer now and at any time in the future that that is what you have done and that is what is being offered. Just an opinion. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] 6" x 8" film?
Slightly off-topic, but I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if there ever was (or still is?) a standard film size that was anywhere close to 6x8 inches? I was in Japan last week and found an ancient fold-up wooden 8x10 view camera with perfect bellows, but no lens or lens boards. I thought "great for pinholing" and bought it for a mere $65. When I got it home I began to look at it and realized that it wasn't 8x10 at all. It was designed for glass negatives but the one film holder that came with it has sheet film adapters provided. Is there any such film? or will I have to cut up 8x10 sheets? Thanks Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Bellows factor
I've only lived at my new house here in Northern California for a year--still no darkroom!--but so far the laws of physics seem to apply. I've only made a few shots with this new extension, so it's actually hard to say whether the apparent lack of effect of the bellows is real or not. I will report more in the future if my location really does bend the laws of physics. In the meantime let me say that if Zernike could produce an extension frame for the 4X5 camera with a lip and felt on BOTH sides he' d make it really easy to do this kind of thing. The only troublesome part was that I had to use the sides without felt back to back on two frames, which required tweaking to avoid light leaks. By the way, the formula I eventually used simply says divide the square of the new length by the square of the old length to get the bellows factor, so in my example that was 32.5 centimeters squared (1056) divided by 5 centimeters squared (25) equals 42.25. So 42.25 times my original 2 second exposure at 5 centimeters is 84.5 seconds--more or less the same answer others reported but by formulas that seemed more complicated (to me anyway). Colin --- John Yeo wrote: > I don't remember guillermo explaining it, so here's > my shot at it. > > Every time the bellows extension is doubled, you > have to increase exposure > by 2 stops. If you extend the bellows by a factor > of 1.414 (the square > root of 2), you must double the exposure. > > so... sqr(2)^x = extension factor. x is the number > of stops > > He is extending the bellows by a factor of 6.5. > > sqr(2)^x = 6.5 > x log sqr(2) = log 6.5 logrhythm > properties > x = (log 6.5) / (log (sqr(2)) simple algebra > x = 5.4 > > you must add 5.4 stops of exposure, so 2 * (2^5.4) > is 84.44 sec. As for why > colin's exposures weren't matching this, i am > baffled. Maybe he lives in a > part of the world where the laws of physics don't > apply :P > > John > > So, you would have to multiply the exposure by > 5.4- Original > Message - > From: "Guy Glorieux" > To: "Pinhole List" > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 3:14 AM > Subject: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Bellows factor > > > > > > > > "G.Penate" wrote: > > > > > just plain physics of light. > > > This case is in no way different than if you > were using a glass lens. > > > > > > 84.5 seconds (uncorrected for reciprocity, time) > > > > Guillermo, > > Can you remind me how you worked this out. > > Guy > > > > > > ___ > > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > > unsubscribe or change your account at > > http://www.???/discussion/ > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Interesting Site
Along the same lines, I just finished reading "Vermeer's Camera" by Philip Steadman (Oxford U. Press, 2001). This is an excellent discussion of the topic, as it relates to Vermeer. Anyone on the list interested in the camera obscura, optics, or art in general would probably find it interesting. It is clearly written and technical only to the extent required to make the case (for thoes who like the technical data, it's all available in extensive appendices). The thesis is very quietly but persuasively argued, I think. I have always believed in the idea of Vermeer having used the camera obscura, but there is not a shred of doubt in my mind now. The author successfully uses the geometry of many of the paintings to recreate the rooms they would have been painted in. He shows that these rooms are in many cases identical and that a camera obscura in the position required to paint them would have projected an image on the back wall of the room that is exactly the size of many of the paintings. It's hard to explain, but very interesting. I highly recommend the book. There is a companion Web site, but i can't find the URL at the moment. A search on the author and the obvious words from the title of the book should locate it though. Colin --- Joao Ribeiro wrote: > Hi folks, > > Just came across this site and thought it might > interest us, the > pinholers. > http://www.artandoptics.com/ > It is about David Hockney's theory of artist using > optical instruments > since the 15th century. > Cheers > Joao > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Bellows factor
That was my instinct, Guillermo, and thanks for your answer. Funny thing is, I tried it yesterday at a minute and a half--my rough calculation, which was close to your suggested 84.5 seconds--and it completely overexposed the film. It was all white (using Polaroid Type 55). Then I tried it indoors in a setting that I know from experience needs about 45 minutes. I gave it about an hour--very little more than what I would normallyand the expoure was more or less correct. In other words, it was behaving very much like the extension had no effect at all. Wonder why? Colin > There is no "rule of thumb", just plain physics of > light. > This case is in no way different than if you were > using a glass lens. > > > If I would expect a 2-second exposure outside in > full > > sunlight with a 5.0CM "focal length", for example, > > what would be a theoretical equivalent at 32.5 CM? > > 84.5 seconds (uncorrected for reciprocity, time) > > Guillermo > > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] changing bags
--- "Eric S. Theise" wrote: > tricks...@aol.com writes: > > I was wondering . Does anybody on this list NOT > use a changing bag? Interesting. Just for the record, I have never owned a changing back and never used one in my life. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com
[pinhole-discussion] Bellows factor
Hi everyone I have rigged up an "extension tube" for my Zero image 4X5 camera that puts the pinhole 32.5CM from the film plane. The pinhole is designed for use at about 5.0CM. I'm not worried about the "optimal pinhole" thing. I'm confident this will create an image, just wondering how much this distance is likely to force me to lengthen my exposure time. I will be experimenting, of course, but in the hope of not wasting too much film, does anyone have a rule of thumb? If I would expect a 2-second exposure outside in full sunlight with a 5.0CM "focal length", for example, what would be a theoretical equivalent at 32.5 CM? Thanks Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
[pinhole-discussion] TEST
Sorry, List I got six copies of my own message to the list yesterday from the list server--bizarre. Did that happen to everyone? If so, I'm sorry. I sent it only once. Am sending this as a test. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Zone plates
Zernike, I'm sure others will agree with me when I say that I'd love to see some of the images you've created with your odd zone plate shapes. Also, just received my Zero Image 4x5 camera. Very elegant camera that is fun and easy to use. Kudos again to you Zernike. Just wish I had ordered the shutter that works with the cable release. Can this be added afterwards? How do you connect it? Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Zone plates
Zernike, I'm sure others will agree with me when I say that I'd love to see some of the images you've created with your odd zone plate shapes. Also, just received my Zero Image 4x5 camera. Very elegant camera that is fun and easy to use. Kudos again to you Zernike. Just wish I had ordered the shutter that works with the cable release. Can this be added afterwards? How do you connect it? Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Zone plates
Zernike, I'm sure others will agree with me when I say that I'd love to see some of the images you've created with your odd zone plate shapes. Also, just received my Zero Image 4x5 camera. Very elegant camera that is fun and easy to use. Kudos again to you Zernike. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Zone plates
Zernike, I'm sure others will agree with me when I say that I'd love to see some of the images you've created with your odd zone plate shapes. Also, just received my Zero Image 4x5 camera. Very elegant camera that is fun and easy to use. Kudos again to you Zernike. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Zone plates
Zernike, I'm sure others will agree with me when I say that I'd love to see some of the images you've created with your odd zone plate shapes. Also, just received my Zero Image 4x5 camera. Very elegant camera that is fun and easy to use. Kudos again to you Zernike. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] 116 film
Hi Found an intriguing little camera today in an antique shop made by Bear Camera Services. Looks like it might be great to convert to pinhole, but it seems to take size 116 film. The spool looks about the same size as 120, though. Does anyone know if 120 would work in a camera designed for 116? Thanks Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Type 55 Polaroid materials, et al..
It's been a while since I've done this, so I'm a bit uncertain, but for the sake of clarity, I was hoping someone who uses the Type 55 regularly will chime in--as far as I remember, you don't need to fix Type 55 negatives, you simply clear them with the sodium sulfite or Permawash--or am I going crazy? Comments appreciated. Colin --- dalf...@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/8/01 9:42:25 AM Central > Daylight Time, > lcal...@central.uh.edu writes: > > << Please double-check the dilution ratio for sodium > sulfite. I believe that > it's an 18% solution. > >> > I saw the same 18% solution ratio in an article in > a back issue of View > Camera magazine...but a couple of people on list > have told me to use Perma > Wash instead, as Sodium Sulfite " tends to be grainy > ". As I understand it > correctly, the Type 55 P/N must be fixed, then > run/agtitated through a > PermaWash solution( working strength of 3 oz > PermaWash to a gallon of water), > re-washed , then dried before usable for printing , > I hope I am not being > denser than my negatives :-) > > DAlfrey > dalf...@aol.com > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Photogravure
Thanks Tina Wasn't aware that Keith Howard had a Web presence. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Intaglio on other-than-metal plates
Using mat board is essentially the same thing that I do when relief printing cardboard. When it comes right down to it, you can say the following about print making: As long as you can get some sort of ink (dye, pigment, whatever) to stick to some sort of object and then get the ink from the object to stick to some sort of surface, you can make a print. --- "Uptown Gallery & Frame Shop, LLC" wrote: > Hello: > > Isn't one aspect of collograph printing the use of > 'plates' made of > matboard? > > I have heard of people doing simple prints on > matboard, but not > photorealistic images. > > One of my artists occasionally uses a sheet of > acrylic (Plexiglas, > Lucite, whatever other name you like), and either > etches (I guess > drypoint or engraving would be more appropriate due > to lack of acid) > with any tool, or uses a soldering iron or > woodburning tool...this > results in coarser lines. > > Thanks for the photogravure info Colin...I saw one > the other day and was > puzzled how it was done. > > Murray > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: photogravure
Some on the list may be interested to know about Keith Howard's photoetching techniques--techniques he developed precisely because he felt he was ruining his health using conventional photoetching chemicals. I have never tried what he recommends, but I have his book on the subject. Safe Photo Etching for Photographers and Artists By Keith Howard 1991 Wynne Resources (Publisher) Peace River, Alberta, Canada T8S 1T2 Phone: 403-624-5566, Fax 403 623-3344 ISBN 0-646-06601-3 The process uses a sensitized gelatin emulsion. The book is useful for anyone interested in alternative processes. It has a lot of practical information on photo processes and printing techniques. Not sure whether this is in print still, but it used to be available directly from the publisher. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] self-intro/printmaking
Could you tell us more about the Headlands Center? Thanks Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] cheap press for relief printing
Yes, water-based inks work, but in that case you have to use a block made of something slightly absorbent that will hold the ink. In Japan, cherry wood was traditional (very expensive today), but any good wood will do. Surely there are other things that would be suitable, but metal plates (copper, brass, aluminum and zinc, among others can be used with oil-based inks), rubber, linoleum, etc. don't work with water-based inks. In my own work, I use combinations of wood and cardboard as the "plates" but use oil-based inks because the cardboard holds up better that way. Still interested to hear if anyone knows what kind of tonal range the oven cleaner method allows. Also interested in ongoing reports on the UV-sensitive resin emulsion developed in water that someone mentioned. I suspect these both require screens to get any kind of tonal range. Given the already highly contrasty nature of pinhole negtives in many cases, I wonder if this approach would yield good results very often, but who knows? For what it's worth, all the oil-based stuff can be done using relatively benign fuel oil (Japanese toyu--Ed help me if this is the wrong translation) as the solvent. It's not very volatile nor is it as carcinogenic as the stuff people often use (often benzene-rich). I'm very sensitive to solvents as well and this stuff is OK for me. The process is time-consuming, however. You either have the temperament for it or you don't. It can be tedious and messy--you're definitely right about that. Colin --- Gregory Parkinson wrote: > I love printing off of photo plates, but what I > couldn't > get into the was the prep and cleanup time for each > print. Inking the plate - and then cleaning it for > the > next print - was a time-consuming and messy job that > involved the use of lots of solvents. I didn't like > breathing > that stuff for so long. > > Can you use water-based inks for this process? > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Oven cleaner
No (oddly, perhaps) it doesn't. The paper is used just moist enough to soften the fibers. The pressure of the press is more than enough to force the ink into the paper despite the water. Colin > I have a question. If Paper is dampened w/ water, > wouldn't that repel oil > based ink? > > Thanks > > Mac > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Oven cleaner
Sorry, Gordon Missed one part of your question. Yes, any block that can be intaglio printed can also be relief printed. It's simply a matter of where you put the ink. In fact, a single etched plate can simltaneously be relief and intaglio printed. In relief printing you would use hand rollers usually to apply an even layer of ink to the raised surfaces of the plate and avoid getting ink into the cracks (the etched or otherwise lowered portions of the plate). The relief surfaces are usually wiped clean in intaglio printing with the ink ONLY in the cracks. Intaglio printing requires more pressure and usually uses dampened paper to allow the paper to go into the cracks and pull out the ink. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Oven cleaner
With apologies to listmembers, as this is not pinhole, the Japanese tool called a baren is traditionally a coil of tightly braided or wound rice husks (looking rather like a coiled trivet) covered in large bamboo leaves with a handle on the back to form a flat, smooth disc that can be grasped from behind. These are what are used to rub the back of the paper in traditional wood block printing in Japan to transfer the ink from the block to the paper. Good ones can cost a fortune (I once saw one priced at nearly $1,000!), bad ones fall apart immediately and rip the paper your trying to print on. If you want to see a cheap one just to get the idea, look for a cheapo "Japanese woodblock printing kit" at an everyday art supply store. Often they have little ones included. Someone invented a wonderful one (the type I use) that is an array of tiny ball bearings in concenric rings set into holes and sandwiched between two round plexiglass discs. Rolls over the paper like a dream but allows you to exert a lot of even pressure over a large area and doesn't wear out. These cost about $200.00, but last practically forever. I can give you a source in Tokyo if seriously interested, but when it comes right down to it, any method of applying pressure to a sheet of paper on a relief block will work. You can do it with the back of a large spoon. This is tedious, time-consuming work--especially if you plan to make large prints--but use your imagination. Pressure is what's important, not lots of ink. I have seen simple relief presses for sale cheap at antique stores. Again, if really interested, I would recommend making the investment in a good, moderately sized intaglio press--something designed for what you want to do. It will save you loads of frustration in the end. Used ones are available and a great idea, but have any candidate checked out before you buy by someone who knows the problems to look for in a used machine (biggest problem is usually a dented or unevenly worn drum, which will cause dropout). I suspect there are related forums out there for this kind of topic. For more, contact me off list. Hope this helps. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Oven cleaner
Very interesting about the linoleum block and oven cleaner idea. Thanks for passing it on. Would be interested to hear more about the emulsions described--what kind of tonal range is achievable? Does it tend to be an all or nothing kind of thing--stark black and white--or can you actually get gradations with this method? I've been a printmaker for about 20 years, if anyone needs tips about papers, inks, and the best way to transfer an image from a block, let me know. There is probably lots of info on the Internet, of course. Anyway, if you decide to get into this, I highly recommend using GOOD oil-based inks (unless you want to play with wash effects) for permanency and clarity of color and also using quality rollers. Places like Pearl Paint in New York (just struck me that their main store is on Canal Street--sincerely hope they made it through the recent trauma unscathed) have a wide range of this sort of stuff and sell online and through their catalog. Avoid the cheap block printing sets that the local art supply store is likely to have. The best tool for hand transfering images is the Japanese baren--a good one, that is. A press makes life easy. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Pinhole Construction ?
In answer to the question about mounting laser drilled pinholes, I would agree with the person who suggested mounting them on interchangeable boards. If you can't find suitable mat board at a picture framer or art supply store, there are a number of brands of good sketchbook that have black board covers of the right weight for making "lens" boards. If you have a friend who draws or have an art class in the area you might be able to get spent sketchbook covers for nothing. I have made four or five pinhole cameras entirely from this board and the matte black tape that photo stores sell. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [pinhole-discussion] T-Max reciprocity
Ricardo asks about T-Max 100 reciprocity failure. I've been doing my pinhole work exclusively (well, almost exclusively) with this emusion for several years and have found this general rule works very well: Meter your intended subject as if at f2 for an ASA 100 film. Take the reading for f2. Add 10 stops of exposure to that (remembering that adding one stop means doubling the exposure time). If the resulting value is 2 seconds or less, expose as indicated. If it is 2 seconds to 5 seconds, multiply it by 2. If it is 5 seconds to 10 seconds, multiply it by 5. If it is 10 seconds or more, multiply it by 10 and then again by 2. Thats all. The only other thing to remember is that for values on the edge of the ranges (that is, 5 seconds and 10 seconds) it s better to err on the side of the longer exposure. Also, this system seems to become less reliable with meter values of one minute or more after adding the ten stops. Such readings usually need another one or two stops of exposure. For the record, I've used this system succesfully with pinhole cameras with pinholes equivalent to about f=125 to about f=500. Getting to know one camera and one emulsion by taking lots of pictures with the combination is the best way to learn how to adjust for reciprocity (in my opinion). After a while you'll put away your light meter. You'll just know what the exposure is. Give it a try. Colin > Can I find that Ilford reciprocity failure table on > the web? On which sites > ? Is there a similar table for T-max 100 ? > > Ricardo. __ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Polaroid 545 back
I use the Polaroid 545 back with the Kodak Ready Loads all the time with great success. They are very easy to use. I don't know what range of films is available in the Ready Load format, but I use the T-Max 100 version. They come in boxes of ten with two sheets in each. You expose one side, remove it and then turn it over to use the other side--much like a traditional film holder. I was surprised to see someone here say that people say they have trouble with them. The only difficult thing is that removing them from the holder is sometimes difficult, but I find the Polaroid films difficult to remove too (removing them without putting them through the built-in processing rollers). In fact, I have ruined more Polaroid film doing this than I have the Ready Loads. I recommend them if you can afford the extra expense. The per-sheet cost of the film will be higher than if you loaded sheet film into ordinary holders. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] New to Pinhole
I think Leezy is right. The f=150 pinhole camera that I use most gives a great exposure indoors at about thirty minutes using film (ASA 100). In this camera the film is only an inch from the pinhole. If your Quaker Oats box (greater distance to the pinhole=darker) can do the same using paper (which is so much slower), then it suggests the pinhole is very big. It may be so big that even a fraction of a second outside darkens the paper the way you describe. Try a smaller pinhole, but be prepared for much longer exposures indoors. Of course, you could make two cameras--one for indoors and one for outdoors. Colin > In a message dated 8/25/01 5:35:14 PM, > ccpear...@home.com writes: > > << Indoors, I'm getting a proper exposure when > exposed for about a half an > hour. > > When I bring the camera outside, and expose for less > than a second, my > picture is totally black with no detail. >> ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] compensating zone plate
In answer to your concave/convex question, Guillermo, I was thinking of a half sphere sticking out away from the film plane so that the zones at the edges were closer to the film than the central clear area. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] compensating zone plate
Perhaps a silly, just-woke-up-and-checked-my-mail-while-still-sleepy kind of thought, but. What would happen if you projected a zone plate pattern of rings onto the surface of a largish half sphere? Wouldn't that bring the outer rings closer to the film plane? Would that help to compensate for fall off? I imagine you'd need a lot of rings. Also, I've long wondered why no one makes zone plates by etching and staining glass. Every zone plate I've seen has dirty, scratched, cloudy clear zones because it's been made on film base. Wouldn't glass be better? Could probably be done using photoetching. Maybe too complicated, probably too expensive. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] changing colours
I'll keep this short, as it is off-topic, but artist David Hockney did a lot of work in the 80s (I think) using color copiers and this is believed to be more or less permanent. However, at the time it was already clear that some copiers were much better than others regarding permanency. An Internet search into Hockney and this body of work would likely lead to more info--or the library. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] changing colours
Does anyone know names and model numbers of the archival printers from Epson that Jeff mentions? Thanks. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Shutter advice
Hello all I can attest to the usefulness of floppy disks as a shutter machanism. Here is a photo of one of my oldest pinhole cameras that uses this idea. I can supply details if anyone is interested. Colin http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/floppyshutter.jpg __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Washing Polaroid P/N film
After years of messing with sodium sulfite solutions with the Polaroid positive/negative film, I am delighted to hear that someone has a better idea, but I have never heard of Permawash. What is it? Who makes it? Is it readily available at photo supply stores, or is it the kind of stuff that you have to search for? What is it really made for? Are there any implications for permanency of the Polaroid negative? Thanks, any info would be much appreciated. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Technical wide-angle question
On light fall-off in pinhole cameras-- I've always thought (but never tried it) that you ought to be able to make a "density adjustment filter" for any pinhole camera by photographing a smooth white, evenly-lit surface and then using the resultant negative for subsequent shots inside the camera on top of the film or paper used. The density of the negative (more in the center, less at the edges) ought to be a perfect canceller of the fall-off the camera has. This would slow exposures and I can see practical impediments especially in the case of a camera that shoots roll film (how and where to attach the filter--it would have to rest as close as possible to the film), but it might work in a hand-loaded larger format camera shooting with paper. Colin On another subject, my original Zero 2000 (number 138) fell apart on WPPD ruining (I think--haven't had the energy to develop the roll) my WPPD shots. Anyone with an older Zero 2000 may want to check the wood panel at the top of the box inside the camera that the lid screws into. I have been careful with mine and not screwed the lid on too tight, but for some reason this entire piece came out and the lid fell off with the inner panel connected. I easily repaired this with a good carpenter's glue, but it was a disappointment, needless to say. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] testing the gallery?
Hi everyone, I'm not sure if we are supposed to offer feedback about the pinhole day upload here on the list, but in looking at the pages for viewing the submissions, a couple of things came to mind. 1. Will there be an attempt to achieve some uniformity in the size of the images? Obviously they can't and shouldn't be identical in size, and I know these are test images, but it is conceivable that people will be sending images of very different physical dimensions and resolutions (which will change the size on screen). It will be difficult to adjust each photo as it comes in. I haven't yet looked at the submission page, if there is a size recommendation there, then maybe this is not a problem, but tiny images followed by ones so big that you have to move your browser window to view them may be disconcerting to viewers. 2. If the response is good (hundreds of photos or even a hundred), then the linearity of the display could become tedious to viewers. I got tired of hitting the browse button after about 20 photos. That might mean the photos at the beginning get a lot of attention while those at the end get ignored. One way to help might be to have thumbnails (someone has to do a lot of work, of course). It might help just to say somewhere how many photos there are in total. Or could a random selector be added? Just some thoughts. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] new image upload
Tina, Nice photos. I particularly like the chair. How have you hand colored these? Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Camera backs
--- William Erickson wrote: > In addition to using the holders, you'll have to > devise a method for > securing them to your camera in a light tight > fashion. I build wooden boxes > and use a wood pressure plate sprung with the > springy things you get in > metal frame hardware kits. What exactly do you mean by "metal frame hardware kits"? I've been looking for a way to create a universal film holder for odd cameras. That is, I enjoy building strange pinhole and zone plate "front ends" but find the convenience of being able to use roll film or my Polaroid 4x5 film holder for the "back end" almost irresistable. It would be great to have a reliable way to create a device for the back ends with the usual sort of spring mechanism that holds a Polaroid film holder (or the adapters that allow a 4x5 camera to take 120 film--mine is made by Horseman) and then reliably attach it to front ends made of wood or cardboard or plastic or whatever interesting stuff is at hand. Does anyone have any ideas? I wonder if my question is comprehensible. To give one example, I have a small wooden front end that I love (Tina, this is the camera I used for the Sebastopol interiors), but use it less than I would like to because I have so much trouble securing it to a back end. I have used weather stripping, but that squashes, I get light leaks (sometimes not), and it slips around unless secured with big, awkward metal clamps that make it impossible to use the tripod mount I put on the bottom. I'd love to be able to just pop holders onto the back of this thing. Here is a picture of the front end, if anyone cares to look. You can se the weather stripping at the bottom. http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/camera.jpg Any help appreciated. I guess the long and the short of it is, I want to take pictures, not fool with rubber bands and clips and clamps Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] PC/MAC compatibility question
Tina, The file format shouldn't be a problem. Macs can create and read both tiff and jpeg files, although i do know that there is an IBM tiff and a Mac tiff format. Nevertheless, as long as the person using the files has access to reasonably good softare, they should be convertible. The readability of the disc is likely to be a bigger problem. Sounds like you are going from a PC? I know that with my Mac equipment I can burn PC-readable discs. Good software on your side therefore should allow you to format a disc the other way around, in a Mac format. There are also programs, I believe, that will burn a hybrid disc with the same data readable by both platforms. Hope that helps. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] My first mailing
Sorry, John. That should have read: 'That can feel invasive, so I'd also be sure your model understands how pinhole cameras work and why you're getting so close. Also, I found that I could take a pinhole picture with one camera and continue to shoot with a conventional camera, which is more efficient than just using the pinhole (and cheaper, as models usually are expensive).' Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
Re: [pinhole-discussion] My first mailing
Hi John I have done quite a bit of nude work both with pinhole cameras and ordinary cameras. I have had success with the pinhole cameras lighting the model with two pretty standard studio bulbs, one 300W and another 500W I cover them with a sheet of paper as a diffuser (be sure to use the proper holders for this. the bulbs get very hot and will burn paper if not kept about 8 inches away from the bulb. I have used ASA 100 and ASA 400 T-Max and even hand-held with ASA 1600 Fuji films. I found it quite practical. You do need a patient model, however. I was using exposures of about 3 minutes to 15 minutes. An experienced model can do 15 minutes without much discomfort and the slight movement that is inevitable is interesting. All in all, with good lighting, it is not as difficult as it might seem. You do need to get the camera very close to the model. That can feel invasive, so I'd also be sure your model understands how pinhole cameras work and my you're getting so close. Also, I found that I could take a pinhole picture with one camera and continue to sheet with a conventional camera, which is more efficient than just using the pinhole (and cheaper, as models usually are expensive). There are are at least three nude pinhole photos on my pinhole site, if you care to have a look. http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/ Good luck, Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Hardware geeks
Photography is a craft, the camera a photographer's most important tool. Craftsman rightly have a deep respect for their tools--love their tools even--, but any craftsman should know that he will be judged by the results of his labor, not by the tools he puts to use. Honor your gadgets (whether high-tech chunks of electronically controlled plastic or handmade cardboard cameras without lenses), but don't use them as excuses. In Japan there is an apt saying "Kobo Daishi never chose his brush." (Kobo Daishi was a famous Buddhist priest noted for his beautiful calligraphy.) The idea, of course, is that Kobo Daishi never used his tools as an excuse. He wrote beautifully with whatever was at hand. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Pinhole photo book on Venice
Hi Gregg, I see I have unintentionally angered Guy. I used his source code to create a page of links on my site, but only because he had said that the group could use the code in promoting WPPD and it sounded to me from the mail I read that he was making the code available. I have apologized to him. I hope he accepts my apologies. I will remove the links. I only put them up last week after reading his mail about WPPD. Having created a number of similar sites, I unerstand what he means about collecting links. It does take work and I should have asked if he minded and not asseumed that he wouldn't. Anyway, hoping to avoid angering him further Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] New zone plate image
Hello list, Finally getting settled in a new house to the extent that all my cameras are out of boxes and I found all my film too. Was making some lemon juice and soda water early this morning when the sun came streaming through the kitchen window. Got out a camera and created a photograph, if anyone cares to have a look. It's at http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/Kifeandlemon.html (Use the "Back " button at the bottom of the page if you care to see older images.) Its a scan (unmanipulated, so very true to the original) from a 4x5 Polaroid print on Polapan Pro 100 at 2 seconds. The zone plate has a four-inch focal length. I was rather pleased with this. My first zone plate success in a long time. Comments welcome. Colin (Thanks for your encouragement, Tina.) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] New zone plate image
Hello list, Finally getting settled in a new house to the extent that all my cameras are out of boxes and I found all my film too. Was making some lemon juice and soda water early this morning when the sun came streaming through the kitchen window. Got out a camera and created a photograph, if anyone cares to have a look. It's at http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/Kifeandlemon.html (Use the "Back " button at the bottom of the page if you care to see older images.) Its a scan (unmanipulated, so very true to the original) from a 4x5 Polaroid print on Polapan Pro 100 at 2 seconds. The zone plate has a four-inch focal length. I was rather pleased with this. My first zone plate success in a long time. Comments welcome. Colin (Thanks for your encouragement, Tina.) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] WWPPD Press Release - Last call for comments!
Hi all, I apologize for editing, but having been an editor for many years, it becomes instinctive This is how I (humbly and with due respect for all who have contributed) would write the proposed pinhole day announcement. ** World Pinhole photographers join to create first Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day April 29, 2001 On April 29, 2001, pinhole photographers around the world are invited to shoot a picture with a pinhole camera and post it at http://www.pinholeday.org. Pinhole Visions, the worlds largest Internet pinhole organization, has taken the lead in establishing Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day. "A pinhole camera can cost nothing to make," says Gregg Kemp, leader of the team coordinating the event. "But it can change the way you look at things," he says. The ten other volunteer members of the coordinating team and pinholers worldwide share Greggs view. Plans for the event quickly crystallized after Hong Kong pinhole enthusiast Zernike Au told fellow pinholers about his dream of a world pinhole day. Our challenge has been to transform this simple idea into a successful event. We hope the power of the Internet will contribute to making the day a creative stimulus for pinhole photographers everywhere. Pinholers new and experienced are encouraged to share their vision and celebrate the magical world of pinhole imagery. Pinhole photography relies on a tiny hole--rather than a lens--to form an image. Any lighttight box with a tiny hole on one side and photographic film or light-sensitive paper on the opposite side is enough to create a pinhole photograph. A piece of black tape suffices to control the light entering the camera to form images on the light-sensitive material. Pinhole cameras have unique characteristics. The images they create are softer than the images most people know from lens cameras. Pinhole images have infinite depth of field. The images they create have a unique geometry. The long exposures they usually require allow photographers to explore the notion of time in unfamiliar ways. Interest in pinhole photography has grown in the past several decades. There are now several thousand professional and amateur enthusiasts around the world, all seduced by the beauty of the often surreal images pinhole cameras can create. The raw materials available for a lenseless camera range from an empty oatmeal box to a camping van--any lighttight box can be used. We invite interested people around the world to participate in the first Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day, April 29, 2001. For more information, please visit our web site at: http://www.pinholeday.org. Organizing Committee Gregg Kemp, coordinating team leader (USA) Zernike Au (Hong Kong) Diana Bloomfield (USA) Jean Daubas (France) Larry Fratkin (USA) Guy Glorieux (Canada) James Kellar (USA) Edward Levinson (Japan) Pam Niedermayer (USA) Guillermo Peñate (Canada) George Smyth (USA) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Need help with B&W film scanning
Sorry, forget one thing. Microtek also told me that the black liners for lining up negatives that come with the Scanmaker 4 are for neatness only. They save you the trouble of rotating negatives in photoshop if you get them crooked, but they say they make no difference to the quality of the scan. I just stick the negatives directly on the glass. I have had no problems with damaged negatives or getting Newton rings in the scans (you do have to be careful, of course). The flatter the negative, the better--naturally. This is another reason I prefer T-Max films to many others, The film base is unusually thick and strong. They curl very little if dried hanging with a weight (which is normal I think). I like Agfa and Ilford films and some of the Fuji B&W films a lot ,but they curl terribly in my experience--epecially the Agfa films. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Need help with B&W film scanning
Hi I have a Microtek Scanmaker 4 scanner as well and have been quite pleased with my results scanning B&W negatives. The trick seems to be to scan them as color POSITIVES (the setting is called "positive transparencies," not color negatives and then to invert them. Microtek in Japan suggested this to me when I was frustrated and disappointed with my results, and really works. Makes a world of difference. Most of the later material on my pinhole site (you can ue the URL below if interested) was done this way (some of the earlier stuff was done with a Minolta Quickscan 35, which gave very nice results, but was limited to 35mm). Underexposed negatives give this and any scanner their toughest time, but with most negatives I have been quite pleased. Most of the stuff on the site is 4x6.5CM negatives. Obviously, the bigger the better, but quite a few of these are 35mm as well. http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/PinholeSite/ Colin Hope this helps __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] WPPD Logo suggestion
Yes, it seems to me that given the creative bunch we have here, a logo contest would be the way to go I was just trying to improve on the design that existed at the moment. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] WPPD Logo suggestion
Hi everyone, Just a suggestion on the WPPD logo idea. I think the pinhole kind of gets lost in the white space of the clouds. I think the idea would be stronger if the pinhole were set off from the clouds more clearly. I have taken the liberty of doing so just to see how it looks. You can see it at: http://www.sonic.net/~talcroft/wppdlogo2.jpg If anyone wants to use this version, feel free to take it. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] need Zero2000 help
--- Peter Popp wrote: > Hi all. I just picked up the contact sheet from my > first attempt at pinhole photography, with my > Zero2000. Overall, I was pleased, but I had a > problem with part of the roll in that the film seems > to have been anything but flat for some of the > exposures. Hi Peter, For what it's worth, I don't recall anyone else having similar problems with this camera. Perhaps you had trouble loading the film? Has his happened consistently with a number of rolls of film? Colin __ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Re: Math and the pinhole camera
Hi everyone, Glad the list is off to a good start this year--lots of messages, lots of ideas. I've been reading all the exposure and reciprocity calculation methods with interest. For what it's worth, I have found over the years that the easiest thing to do is simply to get to know your camera. All you really need to know is what is typically good exposure in about six different situations: Fully lit on a sunny day; shade on a sunny day, the same two situations on an overcast day; Brightly artificially lit interiors (offices, retailers); and dimly lit artificially lit interiors (most houses, restaurants). If you learn these times for your camera (you can even write it right them directly on each of your homemade cameras), then you can shoot in almost any situation with surprising consistency, adjusting for reciprocity, of course. This last, alas, is a problem. My solution has been to find a film that I like and stick to it. You can learn your film just as you learn your camera. After a while you won't mind much anymore if you don't have your meter, or your crib sheet, or your calculations handy. I shoot almost exclusively with T-Max 100 (which is not to say that it's better than other films, it's just my preference) and have generally bulit and bought pinhole cameras that operate at around f=150. I shoot 2 seconds in bright sunlight, about 8 seconds in shade, 8-30 seconds overcast, 15 seconds to three minutes overcast in the shade. Six to 12 minutes in bright interiors, and 30-45 minutes in dark interiors (this is all with the reciprocity worked in). I adjust up and down based on experience and conditions working from what I know to be right in similar conditions (for example, I've found that dawn and dusk usually should be considered a bright interior--6-12 minutes is often right). It really can be quite simple. Of course the calculations and the notes and the theories and the methods are fine. I wouldn't want to suggest that they aren't fun and often useful, but I think it's important to focus on the results. If the negative is what you were aiming for or it was a happy accident that turns out just right, then the method of achieving it is unimpeachable! Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] 6x6 Zero Pinhole camera
Just for clarification (I am the confused one), of course by the 6x6 camera you mean the original one, Joe. That is the one in my review. For some reason I was stupidly thinking you were referring to the new camera (must be tired). Sorry. The one I will review sometime next week is the newest release from Zero Image, which is convertible, as others have pointed out, to give negatives of various sizes, but all using size 120 film. If you are looking at the original review, note that Zernike at Zero Image has fixed a couple of the problems I pointed out at that time (notably, the shutter is less prone to falling open and a washer was added under the film wind knob). Details soon, Colin --- joebe...@aol.com wrote: > Can anyone tell me something about the camera made > in Hong Kong, 6x6 Zero > Pinhole Camera. I am relatively new to pinhole > photography and I am > considering the purchase of this camera. > > Thanks for your help. > > Joe Besse > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.p at ???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] 6x6 Zero Pinhole camera
In response to your question about the new 6X6 Zero Image camera, Joe, you might start by looking at my original review of the first Zero Image model, the Zero 2000, which is in the list archives. I just received my new one yesterday. I am putting it through its paces and plan to write a full review of this model as well, as so many people on the list seem to be interested in these cameras (with good reason). Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] ZP image
--- Guy Glorieux wrote: P.S. I wonder how many people on the list do ZP > together with PH. Is there > a ZP Vision group?The two are both very close > and yet very distant apart > from an esthetic perspective, at least in my humble > opinion. Guy, I think this is a very intereting subject. I've been pinholing since I was a teenager in the early 1970s, but had never even heard of a zone plate until I joined this list about a year ago. I thought zone plate a very misleading term. I kept imagining something hard and rigid--a plate. I think ZP is much less well-known and suffers from the difficulty of creating a zone plate relative to creaitng a pinhole (we all know that even a ragged pin prick in aluminum foil will produce a pinhole image). I have found ZP frustrating in both color and black and white, but (generally speaking) I have so far liked the color images I have seen by other people better than the B&W images. Although Tina has been kind enough to praise some of my B&W ZP experiments (http://www2.gol.com/users/talcroft/PinholeSite/zoneplate.html). Maybe a poll is in order to get some idea how many on the list know about and have tried ZP photography?--or maybe it doesn't matter at all. Anyway, I think both are interesting and continue to believe it's the result that counts. Colin How about "zone lens" instead of zone plate? ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.p at ???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: digital giclee
Thanks, Tina This is a situation I am all too familiar with, it was just the term "giclee" that threw me. I thought maybe someone had made a breakthrough while I wasn't paying attention. Some day there will be near-continuous tone inkjet printing that allows the use of archival inks on good paper...let us hope. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] new image upload
Hi Tina What do you mean by digital giclee prints? I think someone else asked about this. You might want to reply on list. Thanks Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] new image upload
Hi Tina, Just wanted to say that I liked the two images you posted. Really like the way the foreground branches look engraved in white over the misty waterfall in the background. Looks rather like an inverted engraving over an aquatint. Very nice. Sorry for the inevitable technical question, but what kind of camera? We talked briefly before about my frustration with zone plate, but you've got both the ethereal haloes and good contrast. I have just moved to California from Japan (after 18 years!) and will be working less. I hope to have the time to get back to zone plate and do some more exploring. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: Scanning Negatives
Just a word, for what it's worth, I said in an earlier message that I had a Microtek Scanmaker 4 that I am very happy with. I should point out that I started by buying an inexpensive Umax scanner. I took that back to the store the same day because it just wasn't adequate for 35mm. I don't think this is a Umax issue, its just that the machines in that price range are limited, I feel. In my opinion, you would in the end be much happier waiting and getting a better scanner rather than being disappointed by an inexpensive one that just doesn't match the performance of a stronger machine. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
[pinhole-discussion] Re: Scanning Negatives
Just wanted to second Gregg's opinion about the Microtek Scanmaker 4. I have one and use it much the same way that he does. I, too, have been very pleased with mine. Colin __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Flat black paint
The mention of the "lumpy part with no oil" in this message got me to thinking. I have never actually tried this for preparing the inside of a pinhole camera, but I know from printmaking activities that high-quality printing inks are extraordinary for their high ratio of pigment to oil, especially lithography inks. Black lithography ink can be like tar. This stuff sticks to metal, too. Someone might give this a try, although, as I say, I don't know if it would work. It would have to be brushed on. For reference, a trick that printmakers use to remove oil from oil paint (so that it's suitable for printing is to squirt a whole tube into the center of an old telephone book and to close it up and leave it a week or two. The paper absorbs most of the oil and the pigment can be scraped out. I think I have mentioned this before, but for making pinhole cameras I have had success using that black masking tape that is sold in photo stores. It is flat black and slightly textured. It seems quite light absorbent. It has the advantage of involving no mess and being adaptable to just about any surface or shape. The disadvantage is that it can be tedious to cover large areas with it. Colin --- Michael G Heath wrote: > Out here in Africa, I've found the flattest black > paint available is called > "blackboard paint", used to paint blackboards for > schools. Much less > reflective than any other paint I've used. As with > most flat paints, you > need to use the lumpy part at the bottom of the can > (without stirring) that > is mostly pigment with no oil. > > Mike > > > - Original Message - > From: Brian Reynolds > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 3:30 PM > Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Flat black paint > > > > Brahma wrote: > > > Hello fellow pinhole camera engineers, which > paint or spray-paint is the > > > best and most matt for painting the inside of a > camera? > > > > > > > Krylon Ultra Flat Black is used by many ATMs > (Amateur Telescope > > Makers). It isn't really great, but it's about > the best easily > > available (in the USA) commercial flat black > paint. In general > > painting a surface flat black isn't the best > method, but it is easy to > > do. > > > > When checking a surface for "flatness" be sure to > look at a glancing > > (shallow) angle to the surface with a bright light > source also at a > > glancing angle. From face on most flat black > surfaces look to be > > non-reflective, but from an angle they reflect a > lot of light. > > > > There was a survey of different surface treatments > used to prevent > > reflections published in an astronomy magazine. > Flat black paint was > > worst. Black flocking paper was better. Black > velvet (with the knap > > in the correct direction) was next up (although > expensive). The best > > surface treament was something mixed with flat > black paint to break up > > the smoothness of the surface. Crushed walnut > shells (also used for > > non-slip floor surfaces) mixed in with the paint > worked very well. > > Sawdust was OK, but it depended on how you got the > sawdust. Some > > methods of generating sawdust (table saws I think) > wound up polishing > > the wood, thereby increasing the reflectivity. > Unfortunately the best > > treatment wound up being the hardest to apply. > > > > -- > > Brian Reynolds | "Dee Dee! Don't > touch that button!" > > reyno...@panix.com | "Oooh!" > > http://www.panix.com/~reynolds |-- Dexter and > Dee Dee > > NAR# 54438 | "Dexter's > Laboratory" > > > > ___ > > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > > unsubscribe or change your account at > > http://www.p at ???/discussion/ > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.p at ???/discussion/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
