Re: Hard country (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice
Thanks don for recycling yer hard-country history lesson. Nice to precisisize one's terminology, and I must have been off-list when you first posted it a year ago... carl w.
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:27 AM Subject: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice) ...k.d. lang who does have a superior voice and who did put out a really good album "Absolute Torch Twang" and who saw Nashville abandon her due to her non cover-girl looks and the rumors that she was gay. Lang gave up, left her brand of western swing/country and donned a "pop" hat with "Constant Craving" and admitted that she was gay.(snip) Well, you probably said a number of things that folks will be interested in, Tera g, but I am curious about the above, mainly because I honestly don't know or can't remember; did Nashville actually abandon Lang? I mean, was she dropped, was her budget slashed, did radio or the club promoters turn against her? I don't know, and would really like to know why she moved away and into pop if it was for some reason other than just personal preference. thanks, Dan Bentele Many factors led up to her "decision" to try other music. k.d. received a lot of pressure from the press and from inside the Nashville community to discuss her androgenous image. It became quite a focal point and it was rumored and discussed that she may be gay. Ever hear of the old game whereby when "they" don't like you, they'll use anything which comes down the pike to discredit you? k.d. made a few "mistakes" by voicing her opinions on several subjects. I've read some of the comments made here by other posters and no one is incorrect. On the subject of her appearance she said (from memory) that it shouldn't matter what a person looks like and that her "androgenous" style was something she chose to do. When asked if she had a "boyfriend" she said that she was involved with someone but that she didn't think her personal life should be in question. Nebulous answers (and you know how the media reacts to that) which only created more controversy. Further, she promoted not eating beef and also stated that her dog was a vegetarian. She commented on not wanting to wear leather anymore. So, all of these things combined gave k.d. some very bad press and she was snubbed by some in Nashville. No, she did not get dropped by her record label (Sire) and went on to record "Ingenue" which was her foray into "adult contemporary" music where she believed she would be more accepted while publicly stating that she wished to "try" other music until she openly admitted in a gay forum magazine that she was gay. It was just too difficult to have her image constantly discussed and her lifestyle "pryed" into and the fact that country radio was not willing to play and promote her music. Owen Bradley thought she had an incredible voice and talent and he worked with her on "Shadowland" which also showcased a nice medley with Loretta, Kitty and Brenda Lee. It does not matter what anyone says, k.d.'s "gayness" led to her oh-so-subtle Nashville blacklisting. You know, when was the last time you heard a country artist proclaim their "gayness"? It's still not accepted - although it may be lightening up a bit as I'm wondering who thought to have Melissa Etheridge contribute to the Tammy Wynette Tribute cd...or for that matter, Elton John? Anyway, it really shouldn't matter. What should matter is an artists sensitivity, sincerity and ability to successfully transfer ideas/emotions with songs. Maybe k.d. will record another country album again. I hope so. Lang has a spectacular voice and possesses an incredible ability to interpret a song. k.d. has won three grammy awards by the way: "BestCountry Vocal Collaboration 1989; Best Country Vocal Performance 1990; Best Pop Vocal Performance- 1992. Tera
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
Yes John- June too! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Heather Myles Injustice R.W. Shamy Jr. writes: Heather is and has been her own girl- Kinda remind you of Dale Watson? (too country for country?) Just like June Carter Cash? --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did Nashville actually abandon Lang? I mean, was she dropped, was her budget slashed, did radio or the club promoters turn against her? I don't know, and would really like to know why she moved away and into pop if it was for some reason other than just personal preference. Sorry to chime in late here, but I recall an interview around the time of "Ingenue" in which she simply claimed that "I lost my passion for country." The Patsy Cline fixation was over. Maybe because of all of the hullaballoo over eatings cows, but she sure brought that one on herself. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
Will Miner wrote: Sorry to chime in late here, but I recall an interview around the time of "Ingenue" in which she simply claimed that "I lost my passion for country." The Patsy Cline fixation was over. Maybe because of all of the hullaballoo over eatings cows, but she sure brought that one on herself. ya know, I think k.d. just ran into basically the same wall that a lot of us have run into in one form or another over the years. She made it deeper into alien territory than most, but so did yoakum and Ely and several of them in those days and it just didn't pan out as well as we all hoped. There was no way she was gonna make those kind of records just to get into the charts. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
jim: I'm not wanting to play contrarian again, but I have to jump in on this. I think Heather Myles' problem is that she's only a fair to middlin' singer with a taste for just ok songs and the good songs she chooses have been done better by others (I mean Kiss An Angel Good Morning?-puh-leese). I don't think she's sexy (my dog would look good on a Harley g) and the couple of live performances that I've seen of hers lacked any kind of respectable energy. I know that some folks on this list think her record from last year was great, but I thought it was a yawner. Jim hits the nail on the head. I too was disappointed with Myle's cd. I listened to it a few times when I first bought it last Fall. Did nothing for me. When it started showing up on everyone's top 10 lists, I dragged it out again. I listened to it a lot during one of my drives from Boston to Nashville. Like the drive wasn't boring enough. g the songwriting is cliched at best. Myles has a good voice, but I don't think it's anything that special. I'll say the same thing about the songwriting on Allison Moorer's cd. They both have good voices and they are good looking. And that's pretty much a dime a dozen here in Nashville. Not Kelly Willis. That's another story. Excellent songwriting and inspired cover choices. I've been listening to her new cd pretty much non-stop for about 3 months now. I'd even hand over my woodchipper to sing like Kelly Willis for just one day. g marie
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
At 11:40 PM 2/4/1999 Ms. Woodchip wrote: Myles has a good voice, but I don't think it's anything that special. I'll say the same thing about the songwriting on Allison Moorer's cd. They both have good voices and they are good looking. Well, tastes do vary, eh? I'll say that for my part, I bought HIGHWAYS AND HONKYTONKS, fell in love with it and now I own all 3 of her studio records and the import live disc. All bought based on my strong positive reaction to HAH, then to each successive purchase. I guess I've just got a higher threshold for boredom than some. g But I like the way "True Love", or "You're Gonna Love Me One Day" (for just two) make me feel, every time I hear em. As for the quality of the songwriting? Well, it's lyrically direct and uncomplicated but it's very evocative for me. And for my part, I too am left pretty cold by the Allison Moorer record. It bores me, for whatever reason. That pesky taste thing again. Clearly, if music don't move you, it just don't. And in neither case does the fact that both gals are nice looking have anything to do with how I hear the records. But speaking of nice looking: (!) And that's pretty much a dime a dozen here in Nashville. Not Kelly Willis. That's another story. Excellent songwriting and inspired cover choices. I've got all 3 previous Kelly Willis records and the EP. Checking over the last two and the EP that I have at hand, I see that she split a writing credit on one of BANG BANG's 10 tracks, on 3 of KELLY WILLIS's 10 tracks though she does split 3 of the 4 tracks on FADING FAST. I am anxious to hear WHAT I DESERVE, but I don't know what proportion of the tunes are written by her. I've read some promo stuff that mentions other noted writers. This not to rag on the wonderful Ms. Willis, but to point out that while she does indeed have great taste in the tunes she sings, she doesn't write the same proportion of her own stuff as Heather Myles. I'm scrambling around here looking for the records and can't find them, but a check of HIGHWAYS... shows that Ms. Myles wrote all but the two covers on the record, 10 of 12 tracks. (And smilin' Jim thinks the covers are her best stuff. He's WRONG, but just sayin'. g) This says nothing, of course, for the fact that you don't care for Heather Myles songwriting vis a vis the songs of other people's that Ms. Willis does that you find to be excellent. I just give a little extra credit to an artist who performs their own songs, particularly when they strike me like these often do. I've been listening to her new cd pretty much non-stop for about 3 months now. I'd even hand over my woodchipper to sing like Kelly Willis for just one day. g Lay that woodchipper down Marie. Kelly Willis is my favorite female singer these days. I saw her for the first time in St. Louis last October and she was even better than I thought she'd be. But she's not really directly comparable to Heather Myles, and it's an apples and oranges comparison. IMHO. b.s. "The truth ain't always what we need, sometimes we need to hear a beautiful lie." -Bill Lloyd
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
And in neither case does the fact that both gals are nice looking have anything to do with how I hear the records. But speaking of nice looking: (!) All subjective of course, one person's goldmine is another's tar-pit. But, I cannot help but think of one k.d. lang who does have a superior voice and who did put out a really good album "Absolute Torch Twang" and who saw Nashville abandon her due to her non cover-girl looks and the rumors that she was gay. Lang gave up, left her brand of western swing/country and donned a "pop" hat with "Constant Craving" and admitted that she was gay. Looks/lifesytyle does matter to today's country crowd. Maybe not you and maybe not a lot of us here, but mainstream country likes good-looking women and good-looking men and a lifestyle complete with the opposite sex. You said, "Clearly, if music don't move you, it just don't". Heather Myles does not "move" me and neither does Kelly Willis. Gillian Welch depresses the heck out of me and Iris DeMent pounds me to the ground with her voice. Know what I'd like to see? I'd just love to hear Wynonna lighten up with her voice and deliver a non-pop album. I'd love to hear Chely Wright strenghten her voice with lessons and do a "real" country album. I'd love to hear Trisha Yearwood get out of the basement with her back-of-the-throat Wagnerian style and find country for once in her singing career and I'd really like to teach Raul Malo how to hit the note the first time. Tera . And that's pretty much a dime a dozen here in Nashville. Not Kelly Willis. That's another story. Excellent songwriting and inspired cover choices. I've got all 3 previous Kelly Willis records and the EP. Checking over the last two and the EP that I have at hand, I see that she split a writing credit on one of BANG BANG's 10 tracks, on 3 of KELLY WILLIS's 10 tracks though she does split 3 of the 4 tracks on FADING FAST. I am anxious to hear WHAT I DESERVE, but I don't know what proportion of the tunes are written by her. I've read some promo stuff that mentions other noted writers. This not to rag on the wonderful Ms. Willis, but to point out that while she does indeed have great taste in the tunes she sings, she doesn't write the same proportion of her own stuff as Heather Myles. I'm scrambling around here looking for the records and can't find them, but a check of HIGHWAYS... shows that Ms. Myles wrote all but the two covers on the record, 10 of 12 tracks. (And smilin' Jim thinks the covers are her best stuff. He's WRONG, but just sayin'. g) This says nothing, of course, for the fact that you don't care for Heather Myles songwriting vis a vis the songs of other people's that Ms. Willis does that you find to be excellent. I just give a little extra credit to an artist who performs their own songs, particularly when they strike me like these often do. I've been listening to her new cd pretty much non-stop for about 3 months now. I'd even hand over my woodchipper to sing like Kelly Willis for just one day. g Lay that woodchipper down Marie. Kelly Willis is my favorite female singer these days. I saw her for the first time in St. Louis last October and she was even better than I thought she'd be. But she's not really directly comparable to Heather Myles, and it's an apples and oranges comparison. IMHO. b.s. "The truth ain't always what we need, sometimes we need to hear a beautiful lie." -Bill Lloyd
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
She is definitely an original! Heather Myles is a diamond in the rough-I do agree with you on the her attitude, but that it what great artists need! the problem is too many are followers- Heather is and has been her own girl- Kinda remind you of Dale Watson? (too country for country?) RW Shamy WDVR-FM -Original Message-From: Mike Hays [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:28 PMSubject: Heather Myles Injustice After listening to the Hightone releases I fail to understand how no major label picked up on this incredible talent who, BTW, happens to look damn good on a Harley (Live at the Bottom Line cover) and has all the ingredients for success at any stage of her career until recently when she just got to be too country for country. There are far too many less talented beauties having more success. Maybe she just has that my way or no way attitude that Nashville can't stand. I did see a post about a future opry appearance (this weekend) so maybe that will help get her the mass exposure she deserves. NOW ONLINE, http://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry netcast 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.netFor the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
Dan Bentele writes: Well, you probably said a number of things that folks will be interested in, Tera g, but I am curious about the above, mainly because I honestly don't know or can't remember; did Nashville actually abandon Lang? I mean, was she dropped, was her budget slashed, did radio or the club promoters turn against her? I don't know, and would really like to know why she moved away and into pop if it was for some reason other than just personal preference. As I remember it, there had been some rumors about her sexuality here and there before she came out, but I don't think that was what caused Nashville to turn its back on her. I really don't recall the fact that she was a lesbian as being a huge surprise to anyone. More than anything else, it was her fight with western cattle ranchers that did in her country career, which happened shortly before she came out. Country radio stations out west refused to play her records until she apologized, she refused to do so, and she became a tough sell at radio after that since there was a big chunk of the nation in which her records wouldn't be played. Goodbye country, hello new career. I remember seeing her in New Hampshire on the "Shadowlands" tour and it was the weirdest audience I've ever seen. The audience was pretty equally distributed between Silent Majority-type country fans, yuppies, and the butchest lesbians I've ever seen in my life. --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
R.W. Shamy Jr. writes: Heather is and has been her own girl- Kinda remind you of Dale Watson? (too country for country?) Just like June Carter Cash? --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
RE: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
New Hampshire Jon says: As I remember it, there had been some rumors about her sexuality here and there before she came out, but I don't think that was what caused Nashville to turn its back on her. I really don't recall the fact that she was a lesbian as being a huge surprise to anyone. More than anything else, it was her fight with western cattle ranchers that did in her country career, which happened shortly before she came out. That accords with my recollection and with the account in the Encyclopedia of Country Music, which points out that Lang never did do well on country radio (though she did win a country Grammy in 1989) during the 3 years between her Sire debut and her 1990 coming out as a vegetarian, which was actually several years before her other coming out. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: Heather Myles Injustice
Smilin' Jim says: [Americana] Programmers get excited over some pretty mediocre stuff that leaves the rest of us just shaking our heads and wondering what you're thinking. That "rest of us" is a little disingenuous coming from a programmer g. Actually, though, I agree with Jim - except that there's not much overlap, it seems, between his idea of mediocre and mine. I had never heard Myles before I was asked to write the notes for HH, and I didn't agree to do it until I took a long, hard listen to the album; I liked it then, and I still like it now. Regardless, I'll say that although Mike's correct about her "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to doing her music the way she wants to, she and Rounder have been pretty straightforward about trying to get a foot in the mainstream door, and the fact that not only she, but a lot of other folks, have had trouble doing so is an indicator of a big problem area for country and country radio. If things were like they used to be, the odds are pretty good that at least *some* of the more straightforwardly country acts and releases that get discussed here - whether it's Myles or the Derailers or Dale Watson or whomever - would be in the door, not as stars, but with a bit of airplay, a degree of access to country venues, playing package shows and/or as openers for more established acts, etc. The gatekeeper role of radio these days (is there any doubt it's more important than it used to be?), combined with the Consultants From Hell, has stifled the artist development pattern of a couple of decades ago, and the Americana/alt.country scene is not a very satisfactory substitute, at least not yet. You might not think that's a big deal with Myles if you don't care for her work, but I'll bet everyone can think of an artist or two that fits the picture. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Bill Silvers wrote at the end of his fine defense of Heather Myles: Kelly Willis is my favorite female singer these days. I saw her for the first time in St. Louis last October and she was even better than I thought she'd be. But she's not really directly comparable to Heather Myles, and it's an apples and oranges comparison. IMHO. Yep. Heather's much more of a hard country singer. She's more comparable to folks like Conway Twitty, Gene Watson, Mel Street, etc. I'd bet most of the folks who find her "boring" would most likely say the same about those guys.--don
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
Don writes: Yep. Heather's much more of a hard country singer. She's more comparable to folks like Conway Twitty, Gene Watson, Mel Street, etc. I'd bet most of the folks who find her "boring" would most likely say the same about those guys. OK, I know we've been over this before, but it hasn't sunk in yet. (I'm a hard headed Italian, if ya haven't guessed yet). What's so "hard" about any of this? I was never really a fan of Twitty (though seeing Dale Watson perform some of his songs made me appreciate him more.) and I can't say I'm overly familiar with the other two, though I know their names, so you may be right. Can you explain? Obviously adding the word hard to country is not like adding it to rock. g Jim, smilin'
Hard country (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I know we've been over this before, but it hasn't sunk in yet. (I'm a hard headed Italian, if ya haven't guessed yet). What's so "hard" about any of this? I was never really a fan of Twitty (though seeing Dale Watson perform some of his songs made me appreciate him more.) and I can't say I'm overly familiar with the other two, though I know their names, so you may be right. Can you explain? Obviously adding the word hard to country is not like adding it to rock. g It's "hard country" because non-country types like you don't like it.g I'm feelin' lazy today, so here's the definition I gave the last time this subject came up, way back in December '97: Hard country isn't exactly synonymous with traditional country. Traditional country is a more all-encompassing term that may include a number of well, traditional country styles -- honky tonk, western swing, old-timey, etc. For example, Uncle Dave Macon could rightly be considered to be a traditional country artist, but he is not what most folks consider to be hard country. Now some may quibble with the definition of hard country that I'm about to give (I'm sure they'll be an objection or two from Northern Kentuckyg), but I'm fairly confident most folks would go along with it. Hard country music arguably reached its peak in the period of time from the late 60s to mid 70s. Generally, hard country artists used a stripped-down honky-tonk sound that often included fiddle, and almost always pedal steel. Hard country emphasizes slower tempos, and is generally absent of any kind of rock influences. Typical hard country artists of that time would include Mel Street, Moe Bandy, Johnny Bush, Tony Booth, Conway Twitty, and Cal Smith. Even though his heyday was the mid 70s to early 80s, Gene Watson would have to be considered one of the ultimate hard country artists. Lyrically, hard country artists emphasized the downside of love, along with venerable honky tonk subjects such as drinking and cheating. No doubt Northern Kentucky could plausibly argue for a more open and generous definition of hard country, but I'm more interested in defining the music's core values. You could say my definition of hard country simply means it was the honky tonk music of its day, but that's not quite right (even though the two terms are roughly synonymous). Whereas honky tonk may include the occasional roaring song or novelty tune, hard country rarely gets to be boisterous. Shuffles and ballads heavy on the fiddle 'n steel with lyrics expressing a gritty, realistic portrayal of love's travails -- that's hard country music. I suppose you could say hard country goes all the way back to the very beginnings of honky tonk, when folks such as Ted Daffan and Floyd Tillman wrote bleak songs of unrequited love like "Born To Lose" and "It Makes No Difference Now." Still, the hard country sound didn't truly come to fruition until a coupla decades later. I'd trace hard country's beginnings back to the mid-to-late 50s, when Ray Price shuffles like "Crazy Arms" and "Invitation To The Blues" and early George Jones ballads like "Color Of The Blues" and "Just One More" really defined hard country's sound and bleak lyrical outlook. Singers like Bush, Booth and Darrell McCall were heavily influenced by Price, and they carried his sound into the 70s and beyond. Not everything Jones has recorded would be considered to be hard country, but the bulk of it is. And the same goes for Haggard. Not necessarily his tribute albums to Wills and Rodgers, but definitely songs like "It's Not Love (But It's Not Bad)," "The Emptiest Arms In The World" and "Holding Things Together." When new singers talk about their admiration for Jones and Haggard, they're paying obeisance to hard country. And those fabled Johnny Paycheck Little Darlin' recordings from the mid to late 60s are definitely hardcore hard country. While hard country generally has a basic barroom sound, it can easily incorporate strings -- many of Jones's 70s and early 80s recordings with Billy Sherrill are hard country at its best. As for the alternative country artists of today, Dale Watson is probably the best example of a hard country artist. Alan Jackson has perhaps had the most success with hard country in the 90s mainstream. As you can see from the list of artists above, hard country is predominantly male (but not necessarily so). The ideal listening environment for hard country is while sitting alone in a bar (preferably smoky and dimly lit), or, second-best, alone somewhere else.g--don n.p. Mel Street - Smokey Mountain Memories
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
Jon Weisberger wrote: If things were like they used to be, the odds are pretty good that at least *some* of the more straightforwardly country acts and releases that get discussed here - whether it's Myles or the Derailers or Dale Watson or whomever - would be in the door, The gatekeeper role of radio these days (is there any doubt it's more important than it used to be?), combined with the Consultants From Hell, has stifled the artist development pattern of a couple of decades ago, and the Americana/alt.country scene is not a very satisfactory substitute, at least not yet. This observation--the nub of the problem IMO--brings to mind the rise of happy talk news in the 70s. Actually the consultant from hell comment reminds me of Frank Magid and Associates, the consulatants from Cedar Rapids Iowa who pioneered the change in local TV news. It worked and it's been downhill ever since. Not to make too close an analogy here, but I don't see any change on the horizon for local TV news, nor for Radio, now heading down similar programmed channels. And while the Americana/alt secne is indeed not a very satisfactory subsititue yet, it looks like some sort of alternative institutions will have to suffice, cause the big money boys are not likely to change, What to do?
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
Jon Weisberger wrote: New Hampshire Jon says: As I remember it, there had been some rumors about her sexuality here and there before she came out, but I don't think that was what caused Nashville to turn its back on her. I really don't recall the fact that she was a lesbian as being a huge surprise to anyone. More than anything else, it was her fight with western cattle ranchers that did in her country career, which happened shortly before she came out. That accords with my recollection a. Mine too. I lived in Topeka Kansas then and there were several outraged columns in the newspaper and the local stations of course banned her. Kansas of course is the state when you enter you see a large billboard of a steak, with the simple command "Eat Beef!" This slogan is apparantly also required to be displayed on all pick up trucks in the state. I've seen lesbians at Kansas rodeos, but never an "out" vegetarian. Some things are just beyond the pale. Stuart steak sounds good for dinner
Heather Myles Injustice
After listening to the Hightone releases I fail to understand how no major label picked up on this incredible talent who, BTW, happens to look damn good on a Harley (Live at the Bottom Line cover) and has all the ingredients for success at any stage of her career until recently when she just got to be too country for country. There are far too many less talented beauties having more success. Maybe she just has that my way or no way attitude that Nashville can't stand. I did see a post about a future opry appearance (this weekend) so maybe that will help get her the mass exposure she deserves. NOW ONLINE, http://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry netcast 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.netFor the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Re: Heather Myles Injustice
I'm not wanting to play contrarian again, but I have to jump in on this. I think Heather Myles' problem is that she's only a fair to middlin' singer with a taste for just ok songs and the good songs she chooses have been done better by others (I mean Kiss An Angel Good Morning?-puh-leese). I don't think she's sexy (my dog would look good on a Harley g) and the couple of live performances that I've seen of hers lacked any kind of respectable energy. I know that some folks on this list think her record from last year was great, but I thought it was a yawner. On a broader scope, I think that's the problem with Americana radio. Programmers get excited over some pretty mediocre stuff that leaves the rest of us just shaking our heads and wondering what you're thinking. Jim, smilin' NP: Ronnie Dawson-More Bad Habits (if you wanna talk about energy, let's start here g)
