date:20060619

*


Yang jelas al-Mushaf itu TIDAK berbukti berisi wahyu Allah. 

Untuk itu kita tidak usah baca tulisan orientalis... 

Cukup dengan kejujuran intelektuil, artinya - juga - kesediaan
untuk menolak jadi korban kibulan orang Arab. 

Lalu apa sih sesungguhnya al-Mushaf itu? 

Untuk ini memagn orientalislah yang berusaha mencari jawabnya...
Dan inilah, in a nutshell,  hasil kajian mereka yang mutaakhir
(Lüling, Wansbrough, Luxenberg dll...): 

al-Musahf itu asal-usulnya (Ur-Koran menurut istilah Lüling)
adalah semacam Bible juga, atau leksioner salah satu sekte
Nasrani yang banyak berkembang di Timur Tengah dipemrulaan tarikh
Masehi... 

Lalu kemudian  diubah dan ditambah oleh orang Arab... 

Cuman itu kok kayaknya... 

Allahu Akbar. 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Jadi al-Mushaf itu



Yang jelas al-Mushaf itu TIDAK berbukti berisi wahyu Allah. 

Untuk itu kita tidak usah baca tulisan orientalis... 

Cukup dengan kejujuran intelektuil, artinya - juga - kesediaan
untuk menolak jadi korban kibulan orang Arab. 

Lalu apa sih sesungguhnya al-Mushaf itu? 

Untuk ini memagn orientalislah yang berusaha mencari jawabnya...
Dan inilah, in a nutshell,  hasil kajian mereka yang mutaakhir
(Lüling, Wansbrough, Luxenberg dll...): 

al-Musahf itu asal-usulnya (Ur-Koran menurut istilah Lüling)
adalah semacam Bible juga, atau leksioner salah satu sekte
Nasrani yang banyak berkembang di Timur Tengah dipemrulaan tarikh
Masehi... 

Lalu kemudian  diubah dan ditambah oleh orang Arab... 

Cuman itu kok kayaknya... 

Allahu Akbar. 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku


Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman dan dungu kayak anjing melihat
website yang berisi  tema yang sama dengan tema ghostmail yang
sering dikirim oleh Dian Pratama dan - tentu saja - sarat dengan
fitnah dan kesalahan .. 

Tak ayal... 

Bak anjing budug lapar melihat  seonggok  taik angat, dilahapnya
saja isi website itu... 
   

On 20 Jun 06, at 8:02, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> isinya jelas...sejarahnya mbah...
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent:
> Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
> RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim
> ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hidayat Nataatmaja yang dungu kayak anjing dan mythoman ini
> tidak juga paham: saya bukan orang IT.
> 
> Dan isi website itu sarat berisi fitnah yang sama dengan yang di
> ghost mail yang dikirim Dian Pratama... 
> 
> Ni orang sungguh mythoman yang dungu... 
> 
> On 20 Jun 06, at 7:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> 
> > Mbah mulai menghindar ya.
> > Masalah pengetahuan ttg IT bisa saja orang tdk mengakui dgn maksud
> > atau alasan tertentu. sama seperti halnya orang ahli buat kuci
> > duplikat tdk akan ngaku agar tdk dituduh mencuri suatu hari kelak.
> > ini namanya taktik.
> > 
> > Mungkin saja ini berlaku pada mbah? yg mengaku tdk tau IT agar tdk
> > dianggap sbg pembuat web babi tsb? bisa saja kan? 
> > 
> > sekali lagi...
> > masalah kosat kata hanyalah copian, yg penting isinya
> > representatif..mereflesikan profile mbah yg sesungguhnya.
> > 
> > sulit dibantah...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: islamkristen@ 
> > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> >  yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:24 AM To:
> > malaekat.jibril@  12MOVE.NL
> > Subject: RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa
> > pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bak anjing budug lapar melihat seonggok taik angat, Hidayat
> > Nataatmaja yang mythoman ini melahap saja kibulan pembuat
> > website itu yang kosa kata dan TEMAnya sama dengah ghost mail
> > kiriman Dian Pratama ... 
> > 
> > Dibalik itu saya bukan orang IT yang bisa bikin website... 
> > 
> > Yang petatang petiting pamer dia itu orang IT adalah...Dian
> > Pratama. 
> > 
> > Sementara itu Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu tetap saja
> > tidak merasa bersalah dan menyesal telah ikut menyebarkan ghost mail
> > bikinan Dian Pratama.. .. 
> > 
> > On 20 Jun 06, at 7:10, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> > 
> > > kalau kosa kata bisa saja disesuaikan agar terksan fake.
> > > tapi konten nya sangat cukup representatif ttg diri mbah?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: islamkristen@ 
> > > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> > >  yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> > > Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:54 AM To:
> > > malaekat.jibril@  12MOVE.NL
> > > Subject: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa
> > > pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu toh akhirnya nggak bisa
> > > terus-terusan menutup mata akan kenyataan berikut: 
> > > 
> > > - posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri saya itu adalah ghost
> > > mail... 
> > > 
> > > - pengirimnya adalah Dian Pratama.. 
> > > 
> > > Tapi dia tidak menyatakan penyesalahannya atas kelakuannnya yang
> > > mengulang-ulang mengirim kembali ghost mail bikinan Dian Pratama
> > > itu... 
> > > 
> > > Nggak. 
> > > 
> > > Dia malah menunjukkan website yang ber tema dan berkosa kata
> > > yang sama dengan ghost mail kiriman Dian Pratama. 
> > > 
> > > Orang Islam tipikal kayak Hidayat Nataatmaja ini sekali
> > > bertabiat nista tetap bertabiat nista... 
> > > 
> > > On 20 Jun 06, at 6:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> > > 
> > > > lha kalau yg ini p'gimana mau dibantah??
> > > > 
> > > > < http://geocities. < http://geocities.
> > > > < http://geocities. 
> > > > com/jusfiq_babi/> com/jusfiq_babi/> com/jusfiq_babi/>
> > > > http://geocities. < http://geocities. < http://geocities.
> > > >  com/jusfiq_babi/>
> > > > com/jusfiq_babi/> com/jusfiq_babi/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: islamkristen@ 
> > > > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> > > >  yahoogroups.com]On
> > > > Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:20 PM To:
> > > > malaekat.jibril@

[proletar] Simpati kepada Israel Meningkat, kepada Arab dan Islam makin anjlok !!!!

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik Hafsah Salim

Kehidupan dunia Islam tetap seperti sedia kala, selalu dicekoki
berita2 palsu tentang bertambahnya umat, simpati dunia kepada Islam,
masuknya celebrities menjadi Islam, dsb, dsb.

Namun apa yang terjadi dilapangan tidak sama dengan apa yang
dikhotbahkan kepada umat Islam.  Apalagi umat Islam boleh dikatakan
tidak punya kesempatan untuk bisa keluar negaranya, mereka diibaratkan
orang yang dipenjara dalam negaranya sendiri.

Team Sepak bola Ghana hanyalah satu contoh dimana pemain topnya
mengibarkan bendera Israel katimbang bendera negaranya sendiri, hal
ini dikarenakan mereka bersimpati kepada Israel yang selalu difitnah
oleh negara2 Arab dan Islam.  Sikap pemain top Ghana ini memang
mengundang protes dari kaum Muslim, untuk protes ini pun pihak Ghana
hanya cukup minta maaf dan berjanji untuk tidak menyinggung mereka
yang diracuni dogma islam yang bisa menyebabkan keamanan team mereka
jadi terancam, apalagi mengenang kasus cucu Van Goght yang jadi korban
teror keimanan islam ini.

Namun harus kita akui dengan jujur bahwa Israel berhasil mematahkan
fitnah2 yang dilancarkan umat islam diseluruh dunia.  Hampir semua
negara diseluruh dunia sekarang bersedia membuka hubungan diplomatik
dengan Israel atas sikapnya yang begitu bersahabat.  Kecuali beberapa
gelintir negara islam yang tetap menolak untuk membuka hubungan
diplomatik.  Bahkan Indonesia sendiri secara resmi juga telah membuka
hubungan diplomatik, namun akibat adanya ancaman2, sang konsul
jenderal Israel tidak bersedia tinggal di Jakarta sehingga mereka
terpaksa memindahkan kantornya ke Singapore.

Demikianlah, disatu pihak Israel panenan simpati karena begitu banyak
negara yang berusaha membuka hubungan bilateral dengan Israel, apalagi
Israel sekarang merupakan salah satu negara Industri besar didunia
yang mampu mengeksport berbagai produk2 berkualitas tinggi maupun
teknologi tinggi dengan harga sangat murah.  Namun dipihak lain, yaitu
negara2 Arab dengan Islamnya, makin lama makin terpuruk akibat sikap
mereka yang kurang tegas dalam hal terorisme, hanya Arab Saudia saja
yang sangat tegas menghancurkan terorist namun segelintir negara2
lainnya ada kecendrungan malah melindunginya seperti Indonesia dan
Iran.  Namun memang kedua negara ini bukanlah negara yang penting
dalam percaturan ekonomi maupun politik dunia.

Simpati dunia kepada Islam makin anjlok, semua orang Islam yang hidup
di-negara2 maju cendrung untuk dideportasi paksa apabila tertangkap
bekerja secara gelap.  Russia dan Perancis hanyalah dua contoh dimana
kedua negara maju ini sebelumnya sangat erat hubungannya dengan
negara2 Islam dan selalu mendukung sikap umat Islam yang memusuhi
Amerika, namun dalam beberapa tahun terakhir ini kedua negara raksasa
pendukung muslim ini juga merasa dikecewakan, dukungan mereka sama
sekali tidak ada artinya, karena negara mereka juga dibantai oleh
terorist yang cuma mengenal Allahnya, anak2 dan dewasa dibantai karena
tidak menyembah Allah, namun cara2 pembantaian itu juga main pukul
rata sehingga banyak korban2 muslim itu sendiri yang jatuh terbunuh. 
Dilain Pihak Perancis terpaksa bertindak tegas untuk melarang
pemakaian jilbab disemua sekolah2 disana, padahal dulunya masih diberi
kelonggaran, namun yang namanya ajaran islam selalu harus menyalah
gunakan kelonggaran yang diberikan itu sehingga mereka melakukan demo2
besar untuk mendiktekan syariah Islam ditegakkan disekolah2 disana,
seperti juga umat Islam di Canada yang berdemo menuntut
diberlakukannya Syariah islam dalam pemerintahan di Canada yang bukan
negara atau tanah airnya.

Demo2 ini memang seharusnya merupakan demo yang demokratis sebagai
ekspressi kebebasan berpendapat, namun kebebasan yang diberikan negara
ini benar2 disalah gunakan sehingga memukul balik keamanan negeri2
ini.  Sudah ribuan orang Islam dari berbagai negara termasuk
Indonesia, Pakistant, Jaman, Syria, Mesir maupun Arab Saudia berhasil
ditangkap basah sewaktu ingin meledakkan bomb yang gagal diledakkan. 
Pihak keamanan dengan sigap menyelidiki network terorist ini yang
ternyata didalangi AlQaeda.  Jumlah bomb2 yang meledak didunia akibat
terorisme memang menurun sangat tajam namun bukan berarti terorisme
itu sendiri menurun bahkan menurut data statistik justru meningkat. 
Frequency terorist memang meningkat namun karena gagal atau berhasil
dicegah oleh alat2 keamanan maka frekuensi kejadiannya se-olah2 tampak
menurun.  Dalam hal ini yang paling menderita akibat ulah para
terorist Islam ini adalah negara Rusia dan Perancis, dan disusul
seluruh negara Uni Eropah telah diserbu oleh para terorist2 meskpun
mereka gagal melakukan missinya.  Tidak ada pilihan yang lebih baik
dalam pencegahan yaitu deportasi mereka yang berasal dari negara2
Islam, dan tutup secara total semua permohonan visa2 perjalanan mereka
yang berasal dari negara2 Islam kecuali ada penanggung jawabnya dari
negara yang dikunjunginya.  Dunia makin menyadari bahwa Islam memang
merupakan agama yang merusak tingkah laku umatnya karena ajaran2nya
memusuhi semua umat manu

[proletar] Reposting: Anggur Xeres & orang Islam tipikal yang bodoh ...(BBC: A sherry could keep doctor away


Orang Islam yang bodoh  dan mau saja mengikuti  apa yang
dikatakan al-Mushaf yang nota bene TIDAK  ada bukti berisi wahyu
Allah itu menganggap alkohol itu sebagai minuman setan. 

Begitu takutnya beberapa orang Islam itu akan alkohol, hingga ada,
saya ingat diskusi di sebuah mailing list Islam dulu, ada orang
Islam yang khawatir membersihkan lukanya dengan alkohol methanol
.. 

Bodoh memang.. 

Orang Islam tipikal itu rata-rata memang bodoh. 

Saya fwd berita dari BBC ini yang isinya mengatakan bahwa anggur
Xeres (sherry dalam bahasa Inggeris) yang ditenggaksecara moderat
juga punya khasiat... 

Harap baca pula (ringkasan) hasil penelitian Aaafje Sierkema
yang telah saya fwd ke maling list ini dan yang juga menunjukkan
bahwa alkohol yang ditenggak secara moderat itu bermanfaat untuk
saluran darah dan jantung... 



==

A sherry could keep doctor away 

If a heavy claret is not your tipple then reach for the sherry -
it could protect your heart, research suggests. Sherry may have
the same health benefits of red wine, scientists at the University
of Seville think. 

Drinking sherry could protect people from coronary artery
disease, which can lead to heart attacks. 

An article in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture
shows that sherry reduces bad cholesterol and increases good
cholesterol. 

The Spanish study found polyphenols in red wine, which are
associated with reducing the incidence of coronary artery
disease, are also found in sherry. 

Polyphenols protect the heart by preventing the "bad"
cholesterol from becoming sticky and building up as a deposit on
the blood vessel walls. 


The beneficial effects of red wine can be extended to sherry
wines Juan Guerrero, University of Seville Drinking sherry also
increases the body's production of "good" cholesterol, which
medical experts think helps to carry potentially harmful
cholesterol away from the arteries and back to the liver, where it
is passed from the body. The researchers used rats to test the
health benefits of sherry. 

They were given a daily quantity of sherry equivalent to a 150ml
serving for a human adult, while control rats were given either
water or ethanol in water. 

After two months the rats fed on sherry had less bad cholesterol
and increased good HDL cholesterol. 

Caution 

Researcher Juan Guerrero said: "Sherry is widely consumed,
especially in Spain and the UK, and we have shown that its
moderate intake decreased total cholesterol and increased
HDL-cholesterol. 

"As a general rule, moderate consumption of red wine exerts
beneficial effects for health. 

"In our research, the beneficial effects of red wine can be
extended to sherry wines." 

The British Heart Foundation (BHF) believes the study is not
conclusive. 

In the long term, alcohol should not be used to protect the
heart Alison Shaw, British Heart Foundation Alison Shaw, BHF
Cardiac Nurse said: "We have known for some time that moderate
consumption of alcohol (one to two units per day) may have a
protective effect against coronary heart disease for men over the
age of 40 and for post menopausal women. "This research suggests
that sherry may be beneficial in helping to lower cholesterol
levels, however, further large-scale, controlled trials on humans
are required before it can be recommended to help protect the
heart. 

"As a cautionary note, it is worth keeping in mind that too much
alcohol can have an adverse effect on health by increasing weight
and raising blood pressure. 

"It may affect people in different ways depending on their
lifestyle and family history. 

"In the long term, alcohol should not be used to protect the
heart. 

"The best way to reduce the risk of developing coronary heart
disease is to stop smoking, increase levels of physical activity
and cut down saturated fats." 

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/3524478.stm

Published: 2004/03/19 03:06:57 GMT

© BBC MMIV




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: NZZ: Gï¿½nter Lï¿½lings apokalyptische Koranphilologie



19. Februar 2004,  02:11, Neue ZÃ¼rcher Zeitung

Auf der Suche nach der verlorenen Vorzeit 
GÃ¼nter LÃ¼lings apokalyptische Koranphilologie 
Der islamischen Tradition gilt die TextÃ¼berlieferung des Korans als
unter besonderem gÃ¶ttlichem Schutz stehend: Im Gegensatz zur
hebrÃ¤ischen Bibel und zum Neuen Testament zeichne sich der islamische
Ãberlieferungsprozess durch eine wundersame ImmunitÃ¤t gegen jede
VerfÃ¤lschung von Mohammeds ursprÃ¼nglicher VerkÃ¼ndigung aus. Gegen
dieses Dogma von der unbedingten ZuverlÃ¤ssigkeit der
KoranÃ¼berlieferung wendet sich GÃ¼nter LÃ¼lings Versuch der Freilegung
eines judenchristlichen Â«Ur-KoransÂ». Ausgangspunkt ist dabei der
besondere Charakter der arabischen Schrift, die zunÃ¤chst keine
diakritischen Punkte besass: Ein einziger Buchstabe kann so fÃ¼r bis zu
sechs verschiedene Konsonanten stehen, wÃ¤hrend Vokale fast ganz
fehlen. Durch geschickte VerÃ¤nderung der Konsonanten und Vokale habe
Mohammed in eine Sammlung christlicher Strophenlieder einen gÃ¤nzlich
anderen Text hineingelesen, der mit seiner Vorlage nur noch die
unpunktierten Schriftzeichen teilte. SpÃ¤tere Redaktoren hÃ¤tten dieses
Korpus dann nochmals Ã¼berarbeitet, wodurch Mohammeds eigentliche
Botschaft, eine radikale Kritik der monotheistischen Hochreligion aus
der Warte des altarabischen Polytheismus, aus politischer OpportunitÃ¤t
in ihr Gegenteil verkehrt wurde.

Im Hintergrund dieser Thesen steht LÃ¼lings Ãberzeugung, die arabische
Halbinsel der SpÃ¤tantike sei der RÃ¼ckzugsraum eines noch nicht von den
TrinitÃ¤tsspekulationen der griechischen Theologie kontaminierten und
die Dreifaltigkeitslehre ablehnenden Judenchristentums gewesen. Die
mit imperialen Zwangsmitteln bewaffnete byzantinische Orthodoxie habe
dieses authentische Urchristentum schliesslich auch in Arabien immer
mehr in die Defensive gedrÃ¤ngt, worauf Mohammed mit einer 
VerschÃ¤rfung
der judenchristlichen Kritik an der hellenisierten Theologie
geantwortet haben soll: Seine Absicht sei die Restauration eines
paganen Fruchtbarkeitskultes gewesen, den LÃ¼ling auch als treibende
Kraft des Urchristentums sieht. Jesus und Mohammed teilen so dasselbe
Schicksal: Beide revoltierten gegen jene Art von militanter
Orthodoxie, fÃ¼r die man sie postum vereinnahmt hat.

Zivilisationskritischer Grundimpuls 
Die FÃ¼lle der von LÃ¼ling ausgebreiteten philologischen und 
historischen Details steht dabei in eigenartigem Kontrast zu der
manichÃ¤ischen Klarheit seines GeschichtsverstÃ¤ndnisses, dessen immer
neu variiertes Thema das Ringen zwischen vorzeitlicher Naturreligion
und repressiver Reichsideologie ist. Offenbar vermag nur ein mit
apokalyptischer Einsicht in die Geschichtsformel begabter Philologe
wie LÃ¼ling die massiven Zensuroperationen aufzudecken, deren sich die
Â«imperialistische Yahwe-ReligionÂ», das christliche Byzanz und das
abbasidische Kalifat gleichermassen schuldig gemacht haben: Ihm allein
erschliesst sich der allen drei monotheistischen Religionen zugrunde
liegende und im Nachhinein verdrÃ¤ngte Fruchtbarkeitskult. LÃ¼lings
Unternehmen ist so von einem radikal zivilisationskritischen
Grundimpuls motiviert, dem die menschliche Geschichte als eine
Geschichte der menschlichen Selbstvergessenheit und Selbstverleugnung
erscheint, als Chronik des Abfalls vom guten Ursprung.

Trotz seinem spekulativen Geschichtsbild hat LÃ¼ling den Anspruch,
seine Thesen in akribischer philologischer Kleinarbeit zu erhÃ¤rten.
Die Annahme einer massiven Verlesung des koranischen Schriftbildes -
eine Annahme, die leider selbst nicht eigens begrÃ¼ndet wird - bringt
natÃ¼rlich die grundsÃ¤tzliche Schwierigkeit mit sich, dass der Urtext
zu einem kaum noch dechiffrierbaren Code wird, bei dem nicht einmal
der Konsonantenbestand unbesehen akzeptiert werden kann. Der
Koranforscher steht so wie ein Ãgyptologe des 19. Jahrhunderts vor
einer semantisch unbestimmten Menge grafischer Zeichen, deren
Textcharakter es erst einmal zu restituieren gilt. Und genau wie der
Ãgyptologie kommt auch der Koranforscher nicht ohne eine Art
Rosettastein aus: Er bedarf einer textexternen Kontrollinstanz, welche
das Spektrum mÃ¶glicher Interpretationen der Zeichenmenge drastisch
reduziert. Anders gesagt: Wenn LÃ¼lings Skepsis gegenÃ¼ber der
Ã¼berlieferten Gestalt des Korans am Platze ist, dann lÃ¤sst sich das
verbleibende Zeichenskelett gar nicht verstehen, ohne dass man sich
ihm mit einer bestimmten Vorstellung davon nÃ¤hert, wovon es eigentlich
handelt. Gerade dadurch aber droht ein verhÃ¤ngnisvoller Zirkelschluss,
der den Interpreten im Text nur die eigenen Vorurteile darÃ¼ber
wiederfinden lÃ¤sst, was der Text sagen mÃ¼sste.

Auf welche Kontrollinstanzen greift LÃ¼ling also bei der 
Dechiffrierung des Korans zurÃ¼ck? An erster Stelle stehen 
philologische ErwÃ¤gungen: Auch wenn die Urfassung, die LÃ¼ling 
gleichsam Â«hinterÂ» dem heutigen Koran ausmachen will, nicht den 
MassstÃ¤ben klassisch-arabischer Sprachrichtigkeit genÃ¼gt, sondern in
einer der griechischen Koine Ã¤hnelnden Um

[proletar] Reposting: Dr. Gï¿½nter Lï¿½ling: an unknown, but brilliant scholar




Dr. GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling: an unknown, but brilliant scholar in the field of
Islam StudiesBy Dr. Michael Conley (revised Dec 15, 2001) I would
celebrate the contributions of one of our foremost - yet widely
unknown (!) - scholars in the field of Islam and the Koran. I refer to
Dr. GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling, Erlangen in Southern Germany, who has been
subjected to wilful, vindictive exclusion from the proper academic
career for which he was eminent qualified. His crime? To have
demonstratively identified an interdependence between Roman Catholism
and the emergence of Islam which does not sit well with the
formalistic teachings of this august, but conservative to reactionary
enclave within the `learned community.' So gross is his mistreatment
that it evokes a question as to whether theological faculties should
be permitted in universities. It may well become necessary to banish
these proud centers about which the university of the early modern
period evolved if we would sustain the `scientific' and `empirical'
character of the research and teachings conducted in these
institutions. For details on the persecution to which he was
subjected, read on below. Dr. LÃ¼ling has written and published
extensively, yet one will not find his publications in a university
bookshop nor among the book sites in the Internet. Systematically
shunned by those who, by right, should be his colleagues, he and his
wife founded their own publishing house. His extremely valuable
investigations, published in the German language (!), may be acquired
either through book shops or by turning to his own German Postal
address: Postfach 2544, D-91013 Erlangen He may be reached
additionally by Telephone: 09131/34935 or by E-Mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Two essays of his have appeared in the
English language. The earlier recounts the fashion in which he was
spurned by other Arabists and Islamists and appeared as "Preconditions
for the Scholarly Criticism of the Koran and Islam, with some
Autobiographical Remarks," the Journal of Higher Criticism Vol 3,
Number 1 (Spring 1996), pp. 73-109. The second appeared in the same
journal as: "A New Paradigm for the Rise of Islam and its Consequences
for a New Paradigm of the History of Israel," the Journal of Higher
Criticism Vol 7, Number 1 (Spring 2000), pp. 23-53. Prometheus Books,
Amherst, New York will publish his own translation of his most
decisive work with a new foreword in the course of 2002. As a possible
working title, the volume might be identified as "Regarding the
Original Koran; an Attempt to Reconstruct the pre- Islamic, Christian
Strophes in the Koran." For those with facility in German, I list
three of his currently available, most important works: - "Die
Wiederentdeckung des Propheten Muhammad; Eine Kritik am `christlichen'
Abendland, Verlagsbuchhandlung Hannelore LÃ¼ling, Erlangen, 1981. -
"Sprache und archaisches Denken," Verlagsbuchhandlung Hannelore
LÃ¼ling, Erlangen, 1985. - "Ãber den Urkoran; AnsÃ¤tze zur
Rekonstruktion der vorislamisch- christlichen Strophenlieder im
Koran," Verlagsbuchhandlung Hannelore LÃ¼ling, Erlangen, 1993. And now
to the nature of Dr. LÃ¼ling's findings. We know from the labors of Dr.
Reinhard Dozy, professor at Leiden in the late nineteenth century,
("De Israelieten te Mekka") That intercourse between israelites and
arabs became substantial as far back as the time of Saul, David and
Solomon. The Simeonites, one of the major Israelite tribes, occupied
thirteen towns in the southwest of Palestine which they abandoned to
the end of pursuing and exterminating the Amalekites. The prophet
Samuel (I Sam 15:3) sent them into battle, crying, "Go now, fall upon
the Amalekites, destroy them and put their property under ban. Spare
no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in
arms, herds and flocks, camels and donkeys." Four hundred youths of
their enemy, on camels had escaped to the south and Simeonites in hot
pursuit cut them down (I Samuel 30: 17). This is the occasion, Dozy
argues, for the migration of the bulk of the Simeonites far to the
south, in the region of Higaz, a land of trees and water. Several Arab
tribes joined them there (Ibn-Chaldoen, HS. 1350, II, fol.127; al-Bahr
al-Â´amiq, HS. 397). The minority that stayed behind was simply
subsumed into the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. There followed yet
additional waves of Israelite into what is known to day as Saudi
Arabia. According to the Arabs themselves, Israelites repeatedly
settled in Arabia: in Moses' time, in the time of Nebucadnezar, in the
time of Pompejus, Titus and, again, Hadrian. The two peoples, both of
them SEMITIC, accommodated to one another readily. Let us keep in
mind, in this connection, that nine tenths of the Semites in the Near
and Middle East are Arabs, not Jews, rendering the epithet
`anti-Semitic' a nonsequitur since it is presumed to apply only
Jew-baters. Beginning in this latter period, we pick up the
configuration in which Dr. GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling has labored for decades. We
det

[proletar] Reposting: Wolfgang Gï¿½nter Lerch : On Christian Strophes in the Koran



Qantara.de

On Christian Strophes in the Koran


In his life's work, German theologian GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling challenges Islam
to a Reformation. Wolfgang GÃ¼nter Lerch read his book "A Challenge to
Islam for Reformation".

Who would have thought that such a remote and difficult profession
such as Koran research would one day become the hottest iron to cast?
Complex studies from the pens of Arabists and Semitists previously
unknown to the wider public have suddenly come into the line of fire
in the era of the "clash of civilizations", which is in reality a
"collision" with Islam. The fire comes primarily from Muslims who do
not perceive academic insight in this field of endeavor, but rather
hostility. 

In 2000 the book "Die Syro-aramÃ¤ische Lesart des Korans" ("The Syro-
Aramaic Interpretation of the Koran") by a German Semitist was
published under the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg. 

He claimed that the majority of the Koran passages that are unclear
(approximately one-fourth of more than 6000 verses) can be better
interpreted if the assumption is that the Koran originally took shape
in the Aramaic language or in a hybrid language that was not identical
to the high Arabic language, which was fully developed only much
later. Luxenberg thus leaves out, among other things, the "huris",
i.e. the "virgins of paradise" the Koran promises to the martyrs.

Search for an appropriate interpretation of the Koran

GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling, a German orientalist and theologian, has not hid 
himself behind a "nom de plume". For forty years he has strived to
find an appropriate interpretation of the Muslims' holy book. And what
he has produced is explosive, in particular for all those who insist
on the inviolability of texts and beliefs. 

But to date, it has not been Muslims who have made his life 
difficult, but rather his own colleagues. It is telling that the final
version of his life's work on the Koran has been published in English
by an Indian publisher. Even Luxenberg's approach managed to garner
the attention of Arabists and Koran researchers at a conference in
Berlin from January 21st-25th. "We still know far too little", was the
preliminary conclusion.

The title of GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling's book already announces his 
intentions: "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation." According to
LÃ¼ling, the Reformation called for in Islam is not only necessary, it
is also not possible without a critical look at the holy text in the
manner that he, and others, have undertaken. 

Koran research has thus also become eminently political. LÃ¼ling 
continues what had already begun at the turn of the 19th to the 20th
century: a Koran exegesis with the historical and critical methods of
Western science, as done before him by Carlo de Landberg, Martin
Hartmann and Karl Vollers. Already at that time it was hypothesized
that parts of the Koran were based upon Christian hymns.

LÃ¼ling's dissertation from 1970, which he published in an expanded
version as a book with the title "Ãber den Ur-Koran" ("On the Ur-
Koran"), already set out on the path to which he has remained faithful
to this day. This path has led him off the academic beaten track and
into personal hardship because he has questioned ideas that Muslims
have embraced over more than a thousand years, and also because he 
has
contradicted some of the main authorities in Koran research.

Revised "Ur-Koran"

As a reviewer of LÃ¼ling's book, one cannot help but be astounded at
the abundance of details and arguments in this work of more than 500
pages; in the end one can only report that it is a stupendous
assemblage of erudition. 

In contrast to the new Anglo-Saxon school of Koran research 
(Wansbrough revisionism), which is working on versions of the holy
book from two hundred years after the death of the Prophet Mohammad
(632 A.D.), LÃ¼ling believes that essential parts of the Koran existed
already before the arrival of the Prophet Â i.e. in the form of
Christian hymns and strophic poems. 

This is his main thesis, which he understands as a "reconstruction" of
the "Ur-Koran". If LÃ¼ling is right, then much of what Muslims hold to
be true would have to be thrown overboard, namely that the Koran as it
appears today was revealed in toto to the Prophet and was compiled as
a largely reliable text by Caliph Uthman, who ruled between 644 and
656. 

It had long occurred to Muslim exegetes that many parts of the holy
book were unclear, and seven different interpretations were considered
tolerable, but the historical and critical methods of modern science
were not available to them. 

How does LÃ¼ling proceed? He bases his analysis on the extremely 
defective writing of early Arabic. As in all Semitic languages, in his
version Arabic in general yields only consonants and long vowels, the
short vowels are left out. Because every letter is important to the
interpretation, the Koran has been given vowels with the insertion of
signs that appeared only much later. 

The same is true of the point notations that

[proletar] Reposting: Resensi buku Lï¿½lling...



On Christian Strophes in the Koran


In his life's work, German theologian GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling challenges Islam
to a Reformation. Wolfgang GÃ¼nter Lerch read his book "A Challenge to
Islam for Reformation".


Koran scripture  



Who would have thought that such a remote and difficult profession
such as Koran research would one day become the hottest iron to cast?
Complex studies from the pens of Arabists and Semitists previously
unknown to the wider public have suddenly come into the line of fire
in the era of the "clash of civilizations", which is in reality a
"collision" with Islam. The fire comes primarily from Muslims who do
not perceive academic insight in this field of endeavor, but rather
hostility. 

In 2000 the book "Die Syro-aramÃ¤ische Lesart des Korans" ("The Syro-
Aramaic Interpretation of the Koran") by a German Semitist was
published under the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg. 

He claimed that the majority of the Koran passages that are unclear
(approximately one-fourth of more than 6000 verses) can be better
interpreted if the assumption is that the Koran originally took shape
in the Aramaic language or in a hybrid language that was not identical
to the high Arabic language, which was fully developed only much
later. Luxenberg thus leaves out, among other things, the "huris",
i.e. the "virgins of paradise" the Koran promises to the martyrs.

Search for an appropriate interpretation of the Koran

GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling, a German orientalist and theologian, has not hid 
himself behind a "nom de plume". For forty years he has strived to
find an appropriate interpretation of the Muslims' holy book. And what
he has produced is explosive, in particular for all those who insist
on the inviolability of texts and beliefs. 

But to date, it has not been Muslims who have made his life 
difficult, but rather his own colleagues. It is telling that the final
version of his life's work on the Koran has been published in English
by an Indian publisher. Even Luxenberg's approach managed to garner
the attention of Arabists and Koran researchers at a conference in
Berlin from January 21st-25th. "We still know far too little", was the
preliminary conclusion.

The title of GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling's book already announces his 
intentions: "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation." According to
LÃ¼ling, the Reformation called for in Islam is not only necessary, it
is also not possible without a critical look at the holy text in the
manner that he, and others, have undertaken. 

Koran research has thus also become eminently political. LÃ¼ling 
continues what had already begun at the turn of the 19th to the 20th
century: a Koran exegesis with the historical and critical methods of
Western science, as done before him by Carlo de Landberg, Martin
Hartmann and Karl Vollers. Already at that time it was hypothesized
that parts of the Koran were based upon Christian hymns.

LÃ¼ling's dissertation from 1970, which he published in an expanded
version as a book with the title "Ãber den Ur-Koran" ("On the Ur-
Koran"), already set out on the path to which he has remained faithful
to this day. This path has led him off the academic beaten track and
into personal hardship because he has questioned ideas that Muslims
have embraced over more than a thousand years, and also because he has
contradicted some of the main authorities in Koran research.

Revised "Ur-Koran"

As a reviewer of LÃ¼ling's book, one cannot help but be astounded at
the abundance of details and arguments in this work of more than 500
pages; in the end one can only report that it is a stupendous
assemblage of erudition. 

In contrast to the new Anglo-Saxon school of Koran research 
(Wansbrough revisionism), which is working on versions of the holy
book from two hundred years after the death of the Prophet Mohammad
(632 A.D.), LÃ¼ling believes that essential parts of the Koran existed
already before the arrival of the Prophet Â i.e. in the form of
Christian hymns and strophic poems. 

This is his main thesis, which he understands as a "reconstruction" of
the "Ur-Koran". If LÃ¼ling is right, then much of what Muslims hold to
be true would have to be thrown overboard, namely that the Koran as it
appears today was revealed in toto to the Prophet and was compiled as
a largely reliable text by Caliph Uthman, who ruled between 644 and
656. 

It had long occurred to Muslim exegetes that many parts of the holy
book were unclear, and seven different interpretations were considered
tolerable, but the historical and critical methods of modern science
were not available to them. 

How does LÃ¼ling proceed? He bases his analysis on the extremely 
defective writing of early Arabic. As in all Semitic languages, in his
version Arabic in general yields only consonants and long vowels, the
short vowels are left out. Because every letter is important to the
interpretation, the Koran has been given vowels with the insertion of
signs that appeared only much later. 

The same is true of the point notat

[proletar] Reposting IF Lï¿½lling bener.. THEN.... & Snouck Hurgogne...



Saya fwd kutipan dari artikel tentang buku LÃ¼ling... 

Kita tidak bisa begitu saja berkata bahwa tulisan LÃ¼ling atau
Luxenberg itu kudu ditolak mentah-mentah 

Dan ah, saya teringat akan sebuah kutipan dari Snouck
Hurgrogne yang berbunyi:

"In our skeptical times there is little that is above criticism,
and one day or other we may expect to hear that Muhammad never
existed... 



=


06-26-20040 Germany (Qantara) 

On Christian Strophes in the Koran. "In contrast to the new
Anglo-Saxon school of Koran research (Wansbrough revisionism), which
is working on versions of the holy book from two hundred years after
the death of the Prophet Mohammad (632 A.D.), LÃ¼ling believes that
essential parts of the Koran existed already before the arrival of the
Prophet Â i.e. in the form of Christian hymns and strophic poems. This
is his main thesis, which he understands as a "reconstruction" of the
"Ur-Koran". If LÃ¼ling is right, then much of what Muslims hold to be
true would have to be thrown overboard, namely that the Koran as it
appears today was revealed in toto to the Prophet and was compiled as
a largely reliable text by Caliph Uthman, who ruled between 644 and
656."


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: FAZ: ï¿½ber christliche Strophen im Koran


  Ãber christliche Strophen im Koran
GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling fordert mit seinem Lebenswerk den Islam zu einer 
Reformation heraus



01. Juni 2004 GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling: A Challenge to Islam for Reformation.
Verlag Motilal Barnasidass, New Delhi 2003. 580 Seiten (lieferbar per
Seepost, Telefax-Nr. 00 91/11/23 93 06 89).

Wer hÃ¤tte gedacht, daÃ ein so entlegenes und schwieriges Metier wie
die Koranforschung einmal zu den heiÃesten Eisen gehÃ¶ren wÃ¼rde, die
man schmiedet? Diffizile Untersuchungen aus der Feder von in der
breiten Ãffentlichkeit weitgehend unbekannten Arabisten und Semitisten
geraten im Zeitalter des "clash of civilizations", der in Wahrheit ein
"Zusammenprall" mit dem Islam ist, unversehens in die SchuÃlinie - vor
allem natÃ¼rlich der Muslime, die bei einem solchen Unternehmen oft
nicht wissenschaftlichen Erkenntnisdrang, sondern Feindschaft am Werke
sehen. Im Jahre 2000 erschien das Buch "Die Syro- aramÃ¤ische Lesart
des Korans" aus der Feder eines deutschen Semitisten unter dem
Pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg. Der Forscher hatte behauptet, man 
kÃ¶nne
einen GroÃteil jener Koranstellen, die unklar seien (etwa ein Viertel
der mehr als 6000 Verse), besser deuten, wenn man von einer
ursprÃ¼nglich aramÃ¤ischen Sprachgestalt des Korans ausgehe
beziehungsweise von einer Mischsprache, die jedenfalls noch nicht mit
dem erst spÃ¤ter vollstÃ¤ndig ausgebildeten Hocharabischen identisch
war. Bei Luxenberg blieben unter anderem die "Huris" auf der Strecke,
jene "Paradiesjungfrauen", die der Koran etwa den MÃ¤rtyrern verheiÃt.

GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling, deutscher Orientalist und Theologe, verbirgt sich nicht
hinter einem "nom de plume". Seit vierzig Jahren bemÃ¼ht er sich um ein
angemesseneres VerstÃ¤ndnis des heiligen Buches der Muslime. Und was 
er
vorzubringen hat, ist brisant vor allem fÃ¼r jene, die immer auf der
Unantastbarkeit von Texten und Ãberzeugungen beharren. Bis jetzt sind
es freilich weniger Muslime gewesen, die LÃ¼ling das Leben
schwergemacht haben, als vielmehr Fachkollegen. Es ist bezeichnend,
daÃ die Endfassung seines Lebenswerks Ã¼ber den Koran in englischer
Sprache jetzt in einem indischen Verlag publiziert worden ist.
Immerhin haben sich vom 21. bis 25. Januar in Berlin Arabisten und
Koranforscher zusammengesetzt, um wenigstens Ã¼ber Luxenbergs Ansatz zu
diskutieren. "Wir wissen noch viel zuwenig", lautete die vorlÃ¤ufige
Bilanz.

Schon der englische Titel deutet an, worum es GÃ¼nter LÃ¼ling vor allem
geht: "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation". Diese Reformation des
Islams ist nach LÃ¼lings Ãberzeugung nicht nur notwendig, sondern ohne
eine kritische Sichtung des heiligen Textes, wie er - und andere - sie
vornehmen, nicht mÃ¶glich. Koranforschung wird somit auch eminent
politisch. LÃ¼ling setzt fort, was um die Wende vom 19. zum 20.
Jahrhundert schon einmal begonnen worden war, eine Koranexegese mit
den historisch-kritischen Methoden der westlichen Wissenschaft, wie
sie zum Beispiel Carlo de Landberg, Martin Hartmann und Karl Vollers
angewandt hatten. Zu jener Zeit war bereits vermutet worden, daÃ sich
hinter Teilen des Korans christliche Hymnendichtung verberge. Schon in
seiner Dissertation von 1970, die er 1974 erweitert als Buch mit dem
Titel "Ãber den Ur-Koran" vorgelegt hatte, hatte LÃ¼ling den Weg
beschritten, dem er seither treu geblieben ist. Er hat ihn ins
akademische Abseits und in persÃ¶nliche Not gefÃ¼hrt, weil er
Vorstellungen in Frage stellte, welche die Muslime in mehr als tausend
Jahren liebgewonnen haben, aber wohl auch, weil er einigen AutoritÃ¤ten
der Koranforschung widersprach.

Der Rezensent, der Ã¼ber die FÃ¼lle der Details und Argumente in 
LÃ¼lings Werk mit mehr als einem halben tausend Seiten nur staunen
kann, vermag bloÃ zu referieren, was stupende Gelehrsamkeit da
zusammengetragen hat. Im Unterschied zur neuen angelsÃ¤chsischen Schule
der Koranforschung (Wansbrough-Revisionismus), die sich mit
Zusammenstellungen des heiligen Buches zweihundert Jahre nach dem Tod
des Propheten Mohammed (632 n. Chr.) "beschÃ¤ftigt", glaubt LÃ¼ling, daÃ
essentielle Teile des Korans schon vor dem Propheten existierten -
 eben als christliche Hymnen- und Strophendichtung. Es ist seine
Grundthese, die er als "Rekonstruktion" des Ur-Korans ansieht. HÃ¤tte
LÃ¼ling recht, wÃ¼rde vieles Ã¼ber den Haufen geworfen, was Muslime bis
heute fÃ¼r richtig halten: daÃ der Koran, wie er heute ist, vollstÃ¤ndig
dem Propheten geoffenbart worden ist und unter dem Kalifen Uthman, der
zwischen 644 und 656 herrschte, zu einem im wesentlichen zuverlÃ¤ssigen
Text zusammengefÃ¼gt wurde. Zwar fiel auch den muslimischen Exegeten
des Korans bisweilen auf, daÃ viele Stellen unklar waren, und sieben
Lesarten galten immerhin als tolerabel, doch hatten sie nicht jene
historisch-kritischen Methoden zur VerfÃ¼gung, welche die moderne
Wissenschaft bereitstellt.

Wie geht LÃ¼ling vor? Er legt die extrem defektive Schreibung des
frÃ¼hen Arabischen seinen Analysen zugrunde. Wie alle semitischen
Sprachen gibt das Arabis

[proletar] RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku


Hidayat Nataatmaja yang dungu kayak anjing dan mythoman ini
tidak juga paham: saya bukan orang IT.

Dan isi website itu sarat berisi fitnah yang sama dengan yang di
ghost mail yang dikirim Dian Pratama... 

Ni orang sungguh mythoman yang dungu... 


On 20 Jun 06, at 7:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> Mbah mulai menghindar ya.
> Masalah pengetahuan ttg IT bisa saja orang tdk mengakui dgn maksud
> atau alasan tertentu. sama seperti halnya orang ahli buat kuci
> duplikat tdk akan ngaku agar tdk dituduh mencuri suatu hari kelak. ini
> namanya taktik.
> 
> Mungkin saja ini berlaku pada mbah? yg mengaku tdk tau IT agar tdk
> dianggap sbg pembuat web babi tsb? bisa saja kan? 
> 
> sekali lagi...
> masalah kosat kata hanyalah copian, yg penting isinya
> representatif..mereflesikan profile mbah yg sesungguhnya.
> 
> sulit dibantah...
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent:
> Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
> RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim
> ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bak anjing budug lapar melihat seonggok taik angat, Hidayat
> Nataatmaja yang mythoman ini melahap saja kibulan pembuat
> website itu yang kosa kata dan TEMAnya sama dengah ghost mail
> kiriman Dian Pratama ... 
> 
> Dibalik itu saya bukan orang IT yang bisa bikin website... 
> 
> Yang petatang petiting pamer dia itu orang IT adalah...Dian
> Pratama. 
> 
> Sementara itu Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu tetap saja
> tidak merasa bersalah dan menyesal telah ikut menyebarkan ghost
> mail bikinan Dian Pratama.. .. 
> 
> On 20 Jun 06, at 7:10, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> 
> > kalau kosa kata bisa saja disesuaikan agar terksan fake.
> > tapi konten nya sangat cukup representatif ttg diri mbah?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: islamkristen@ 
> > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> >  yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:54 AM To:
> > malaekat.jibril@  12MOVE.NL
> > Subject: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa
> > pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu toh akhirnya nggak bisa
> > terus-terusan menutup mata akan kenyataan berikut: 
> > 
> > - posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri saya itu adalah ghost
> > mail... 
> > 
> > - pengirimnya adalah Dian Pratama.. 
> > 
> > Tapi dia tidak menyatakan penyesalahannya atas kelakuannnya yang
> > mengulang-ulang mengirim kembali ghost mail bikinan Dian Pratama
> > itu... 
> > 
> > Nggak. 
> > 
> > Dia malah menunjukkan website yang ber tema dan berkosa kata
> > yang sama dengan ghost mail kiriman Dian Pratama. 
> > 
> > Orang Islam tipikal kayak Hidayat Nataatmaja ini sekali
> > bertabiat nista tetap bertabiat nista... 
> > 
> > On 20 Jun 06, at 6:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> > 
> > > lha kalau yg ini p'gimana mau dibantah??
> > > 
> > > < http://geocities. < http://geocities.
> > >  com/jusfiq_babi/>
> > > com/jusfiq_babi/> http://geocities. < http://geocities.
> > >  com/jusfiq_babi/>
> > > com/jusfiq_babi/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: islamkristen@ 
> > > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> > >  yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> > > Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:20 PM To:
> > > malaekat.jibril@  12MOVE.NL
> > > Subject: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re:
> > > [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Bagi yang tidak sempat melihat posting dibawah yang dikirim
> > > bulan Februari yang lalu... 
> > > 
> > > Perhatikan kalimat: 
> > > 
> > > --- 
> > > 
> > > P.S. 
> > > 
> > > I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com
> > > This email is fake. 
> > > 
> > > - 
> > > 
> > > Jadi jelas buat siapapun juga: posting itu adalah ghost mail. 
> > > 
> > > Dan saya cari pakai fasilitas 'search' dengan memakai IP 
> > > 64.110.104.131... 
> > > 
> > > Dan nama siapa yang muncul? 
> > > 
> > > dian pratama, kento dan aries wijaya. 
> > > 
> > > Sungguh jelas, siapa yang mengirim ghost mail itu. 
> > > 
> > > = 
> > > 
> > > On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote: 
> > > 
> > > seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia hina,
> > > penikmat dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin binatang, aku
> > > sungguh manusia hina, ibuku aku sodomi hingga meninggal. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > P.S.
> > > I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com
> > > This email is fake.

[proletar] Reposting: thaghut yang dungu males...Re: [islamkristen] Re: DISKUSI YG SANGAT MENARIK - AMIN VS AMRACE - umat kristen tak aka




thaghut yang dungu kayak anjing ini antara lain menulis " Terus
terang saya capek untuk meneruskannya...  " 

Ya sudah... 

Urusan orang Nasrani yang sudah lama dan terus diurus dengan baik
oleh orang Nasrani yang banyak yang pinter-pinter itu kok
ikut-ikut diurus oleh manusia bermantal anjing ini... ... 

Serahkan sajalah kepada orang Nasrani yang telah lama menukikkan
padangan kritis terhadap ajaran agama mereka 

Dan pemahaman ajaran Nasrani itu juga - karena itu - terus saja
makin cerdas dan makin manusiawi... 

Yang kudu diurus oleh orang Islam itu adalah ajaran agamanya
sendiri yang begitu absurd dan buas, ganas, kejam keji lagi
biadab... 

Orang Islam tipikal itu seyogiyanya belajar dari orang Nasrani
bagaimana caranya berdiskusi, bagaimana cara bersikap kritis,
bagaimana caranya berbuat jujur kepada diri sendiri... 

Menghormati freedom of speech... 

Menghormati freedom of opinion... 

Memisahkan urusan agama dari urusan negara... 

Dan seribu satu kemajuan yang telah dicapai oleh orang Nasrani
sejak Reformasi. 


On 19 Jun 06, at 13:13, thaghut wrote:

> wakakakakaka
> 
> siapa yg gugur???, justru anda yg muter2 kayak gasing nggak jelas
> 
> Tantangan saya waktu di diskusi itu sama sekali belum anda jawab... 
> 
> saya malas meneruskannya kalau anda hanya muter2 gak jelas.
> 
> Anda lupa pada diskusi waktu itu yang terjadi bukannya menyelesaikan
> persoalan malah justru terjadi kontradiksi dalam bible anda sendiri...
> 
> Anda juga lupa kitab2 injil yg juga telah tercemar ajaran paulus yang
> tercampur dengan ajaran pagan yunani. Serta ayat2 palsu yg kemungkinan
> tersusup dalam bible.. itu sama sekali tidak anda gubris.. anda malah
> lari muter2 gak jelas kayak gasing...
> 
> Terus terang saya capek untuk meneruskannya...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: amrace69 
>   To: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:59 AM
>   Subject: [islamkristen] Re: DISKUSI YG SANGAT MENARIK - AMIN VS
>   AMRACE - umat kristen tak akan di akui yesus di akhirat nanti
> 
> 
> 
>   BUng "thaghut", bukankah semua argumen anda mengenai ini telah gugur
>   ? Kenapa anda masih mengungkit-ungkit argumen yg sudah gugur itu ?
> 
>   Anda katakan bahwa Kristen sekarang adalah ajaran Paulus, mis :
> 
>   Menuhankan Yesus, ternyata Yohanes, Petrus dan Para Rasul
>   mengajarkan demikian juga, dan klaim andapun gugur.
> 
>   Mengenai hukum Taurat, anda sendiri tidak tau apa itu hukum Taurat,
>   dan begitu ditanya apakah islam memakai hukum Taurat  juga atau
>   tidaksemua peserta islam disini pada diam seribu bahasa.
> 
>   Dosa waris, terbukti bahwa ajaran dosa waris bukan hanya ajaran
>   Paulus semata, tetapi adalah ajaran Yesus yang disampaikan melalui
>   para rasul
> 
>   Semua klaim2 anda sudah GUGUR.
> 
>   Jadi percuma saja anda berteriak-teriak seperti dibawah
>   ini..bersikap gentle lahseperti halnya sewaktu anda mengakui
>   kesalahan anda dalam nyayian2 dalam ibadah Gereja.so... be a
>   gentlementok
> 
>   THINK !
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, "thaghut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   > > hehehehe... > > si amrace mengaku2 mengikuti kehendak bapa
>   berdasarkan mat 7:21 padahal sebenernya dia itu mengikuti
>   kehendaknya paulus. Si AMrace mengaku kalo dia sekarang udah
>   terlepas dari hukum taurat & bebas dosa berdasarkan ajaran nya
>   paulus. Ini saya tunjukkan ayat2nya si paulus yang bertentangan
>   sekali dengan ajarannya yesus. > [roma 5:13] Sebab sebelum hukum
>   Taurat ada, telah ada dosa di dunia. Tetapi dosa itu tidak
>   diperhitungkan kalau tidak ada hukum Taurat. > > [kisah para rasul
>   13:38-39] Jadi ketahuilah, hai saudara-saudara, oleh karena Dialah
>   maka diberitakan kepada kamu pengampunan dosa. Dan di dalam Dialah
>   setiap orang yang percaya memperoleh pembebasan dari segala dosa,
>   yang tidak dapat kamu peroleh dari hukum Musa. > > [roma 2:12] Sebab
>   semua orang yang berdosa tanpa hukum Taurat akan binasa tanpa hukum
>   Taurat; dan semua orang yang berdosa di bawah hukum Taurat akan
>   dihakimi oleh hukum Taurat. > > [roma 6:14-15] Sebab kamu tidak akan
>   dikuasai lagi oleh dosa, karena kamu tidak berada di bawah hukum
>   Taurat, tetapi di bawah kasih karunia. Jadi bagaimana? Apakah kita
>   akan berbuat dosa, karena kita tidak berada di bawah hukum Taurat,
>   tetapi di bawah kasih karunia? Sekali-kali tidak! > > [I
>   Korintus15:56] Sengat maut ialah dosa dan kuasa dosa ialah hukum
>   Taurat. Tetapi syukur kepada Allah, yang telah memberikan kepada
>   kita kemenangan oleh Yesus Kristus, Tuhan kita. > > PADAHAL YESUS
>   SENDIRI BILANG DIA TIDAK AKAN MENIADAKAN HUKUM TAURAT > > [Mat
>   5:18-19] Karena Aku berkata kepadamu: Sesungguhnya selama belum
>   lenyap langit dan bumi ini, satu iota atau satu titikpun tidak akan
>   ditiadakan dari hukum Taurat, sebelum semuanya terjadi. Karena

[proletar] Reposting: Jadi Islam itu apa sih sebenarnya...?


Jadi Islam itu apa sih sebenarnya...? 

Bila kajian Lüling, Wansbrough, Luxenberg dll. itu confirmed, maka
buntut-buntutnya  Islam itu hanyalah semacam sekte ajaran Nasrani
doang...  

Yang lahir dari ramuan doktrin berbagai sekte Nasrani dan Yahudi
(Secterian Milieu menurut istilah Wansbrough) yang ada di Timur
Tengah disekitar abad ke VII atau VIII Masehi, ditambah dengan
berbagai bawaan budaya Arab yang kejam, keji, buas, ganas lagi
biadab... 

Cuman itu kok, kayaknya. 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Apa susahnya sih minta bukti sebelum percaya...



Apa susahnya sih minta bukti sebelum percaya...? 

Kenapa orang Islam tipikal tidak minta bukti ketika ada orang
yang bilang al-Mushaf berisi wahyu Allah? 

Jawabnya jelas: mereka itu dungu kayak anjing.

Bak anjing budug lapar melihat  seonggok taik angat, mereka
lahap saja omongan orang Arab yang tidak berbukti itu. 

Agar jelas: orang Islam tipikal itu adalah manusia dungu yang
tidak punya harga diri yang bersedia jadi korban kibulan orang
Arab. 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Nabi sundel Muhamamd & Milasovic




Jadi, menurut sumber yang dipercaya orang Islam tipikal, ketika
nabi Muhamad yang sundel kayak babi lagi ganas, buas, kejam lagi
keji itu sampai di Yathrib, banyak orang Yahudi yang tinggal di
oasis itu. 

Orang Yahudi itu termasuk penduduk asli Yathrib itu. 

Setelah tu Nabi sundel kayak babi serta ganas, buas, kejam lagi
keji itu meninggal boleh dibilang tidak ada lagi orang Yahudi di
sana. 

Ada yang dibunuh beramai-ramai oleh mukmin, lalu istrinya
diperkosa beramai-ramai pula.

Lalu perempuan itu dijadikan budak bersama anak-anaknya..

Ada pula orang Yahudi yang  diusir ke Khaybar setelah kebon
korma mereka dirampok oleh Nabi Muhamamd yang sundel kayak babi
itu... 

Bagi yang lupa: kelakuan Nabi sundel kayak babi yang ganas, buas,
keji lagi kejam ini mirip dengan kelakuan Milasovic... 

Yang dilakukan oleh Nabi sundel kayak babi yang ganas, buas,
kejam lagi keji itu adalah ethnic cleansing. 

Dan Nabi sundel kayak babi lagi buas, kejam, ganas lagi keji
inilah yang dijadikan junjungan dan panutan oleh orang Islam
tipikial yang memang dungu-dungu kayak keledai debil pengencuk
kambing congek lagi cacingan. . 

Tapi bukan hanya itu yang menyedihkan... 

Nabi Muhamamd itu adalah tokoh fiktif... 

Yang hanya ada di hadits dan sirah Nabi yang MUSTAHIL ada yang
sahih... 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Hadits itu MUSTAHIL ada yagn sahih...



A (Bukhari, Muslim dll.) katanya mencatat omongan B yang nguping
dari C yang denger dari D yang diceritain E dst. dst. yang hidup
lebih dari seratus tahun yang lalu... 

Ya MUSTAHIL lah yaauw ada hadits itu yang sahih... 

MUSTAHIL ada cerita yang sampai dari mulut ke mulut selama lebih
dari se abad itu masih bisa sahih... 

Dan yang terpenting, TIDAK ada bukti bahwa A memang mencatat
omongan B,  bahwa B memang pernah nguping dari C, bahwa C pernah
denger dari D dan bahwa D pernah diceritain oleh E... 

Semua itu hanyalah omongan tanpa bukti... 





==

Jusfiq Hadjar gelar Sutan Maradjo Lelo
...

Orang Islam tipikal kudu sadar bahwa al-Mushaf itu TIDAK berbukti
berisi wahyu Allah dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: ALIF BA TA ... (updated)



Pasar jalan karena dituruti, lancar kaji karena diulang. 

ALIF. 

Kita anggap saja dulu bahwa kedua versi al-Mushaf yang ada
ditangan kita (versi Kairo dan Magrib) otentik berisi wahyu
Allah - seperti dikatakan oleh orang sekeliling kita. 

Dan kita baca ayat-ayatnya dengan memakai akal dan kejujuran
intelektuil. 

Akan segera kelihatan bahwa isinya ternyata banyak dongeng,
dusta, omong kosong dan kibulan serta ajaran buas, biadab dan keji
lagi kejam serta suruhan dan larangan absurd.. 

Saya yakin saya tidak perlu berpanjang lebar hingga titik ini,
karena kalau masih ada peserta mailing list ini yang masih belum
tahu semua ini, maka artinya orang itu tolol atau tidak punya
kejujuran intelektuil. 

Lagi pula mereka bisa melihat contoh yang dibeberkan peserta
lain - juga saya - di mailing list proletar, istiqlal dll. 

Dan dengan memakai google  bisa ditemukan dengan mudah websites
yang menunjukkan semuanya ini lebih lengkap - sepeti answering
islam dll. 

BA. 

Tapi apakah al-Mushaf itu memang berisi wahyu Allah? 

Nggak ada bukti bahwa al-Mushaf itu memang berisi wahyu Allah. 

Dengan menurutkan cerita orang Arab selama ini yang berkata
bahwa: 

1.Al-Mushaf itu usmaniyah dan 

2. 'Catatan aslinya' sudah dihancurkan atas perintah Usman 

maka kita TIDAK bisa berkata bahwa al-Mushaf itu memang berisi
wahyu Allah. 

Bagi yang belum paham: 

1 kita tidak punya bukti bahwa al-Mushaf itu sesuai isinya
dengan "catatan asli'nya 

2. kita tidak tahu apakah "catatan asli" itu memang berisi wahyu
Allah. 

3. Kita tidak punya bukti bahwa "catatan asli" itu memang pernah
ada. 

Dan jangan lupa - karena ini amat penting -:  Puin mengingatkan
kita bahwa TIDAK ada bukti arkeologis yang menunjukkan bahwa
al-Mushaf itu memang usmaniyah. 

Semua ini hanyalah cerita orang Arab yang tidak disertai bukti. 

TA. 

Lalu sejak tahun 1972 kita punya al-Mushaf Yemen yang menunjukkan
bahwa: 

1. Versi al-Mushaf itu banyak 

2. Dan isinya suka diubah. 

Kesimpulan dari semua ini adalah: 

Al-Mushaf itu hanyalah semacam Tambo orang Bedui penduduk Hejaz
yang hidup disekitar abad ke VII atau VIII Masehi. 

Dan tambo orang Bedui inilah yang dijadikan kitab suci oleh orang
Islam diseluruh dunia. 

(update: bila tulisan reviosionis seperti Wansbrough, Crone,
Cook dll. confirmed - maka saya koreksi bagian terakhir tulisan
saya ini dan saya katakan bahwa al-Mushaf itu adalah tambo yang
ditulis di Arab utara diabad ke VIII atau IX Masehi dan bukan di
Makkah atau Madinah diabad ke VII Masehi).

update Maret 2004: kayaknya tulisan Luxenberg (Die
syro-aramaisch Lesart des Koran..) membuka cakrawala baru lagi:
dia berkesimpulan bahwa al-Mushaf itu asal mulanya adalah
leksioner salah satu sekte Nasrani yang berusaha mengajak orang
Bedui yang politheis untuk masuk sekte Nasrani itu. 

P.S. 

Posting ini saya kirimkan dulunya ke berbagai mailing list,
antaranya, proletar dan adalah kesimpulan yang saya tarik
setelah bertahun-tahun  berdiskusi diberbagai mailing list yang
saya ikuti dan setelah saya ikuti perkembangan kajian yang
muttaakhir.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Nabi Muhamad yang adalah tokoh fiktf..



Tidak ada bukti bahwa nabi Muhamamd seperti yang diceritakan oleh
hadits dan sirah nabi itu  memang pernah hidup... 

Tapi orang Islam tipikal yang dungu-dungu kayak babi itu telah
dan masih menjadikan tokoh fiktif itu sebagai panutan dan
junjungan... 

Saya ulang: orang Islam tipikal itu adalah gerombolan manusia
yang betul-betul retarded. 
 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] RE: Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku



Bak anjing budug  lapar melihat  seonggok taik angat, Hidayat
Nataatmaja yang mythoman ini melahap saja kibulan pembuat
website itu yang kosa kata dan TEMAnya  sama dengah ghost mail
kiriman Dian Pratama ... 

Dibalik itu saya bukan orang IT yang bisa bikin website... 

Yang petatang petiting pamer dia itu orang IT adalah...Dian
Pratama. 

Sementara itu  Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu tetap saja
tidak merasa bersalah dan menyesal telah ikut menyebarkan ghost
mail bikinan Dian Pratama.. .. 


On 20 Jun 06, at 7:10, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> kalau kosa kata bisa saja disesuaikan agar terksan fake.
> tapi konten nya sangat cukup representatif ttg diri mbah?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent:
> Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
> Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost
> mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu toh akhirnya nggak bisa
> terus-terusan menutup mata akan kenyataan berikut: 
> 
> - posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri saya itu adalah ghost
> mail... 
> 
> - pengirimnya adalah Dian Pratama.. 
> 
> Tapi dia tidak menyatakan penyesalahannya atas kelakuannnya yang
> mengulang-ulang mengirim kembali ghost mail bikinan Dian Pratama
> itu... 
> 
> Nggak. 
> 
> Dia malah menunjukkan website yang ber tema dan berkosa kata
> yang sama dengan ghost mail kiriman Dian Pratama. 
> 
> Orang Islam tipikal kayak Hidayat Nataatmaja ini sekali
> bertabiat nista tetap bertabiat nista... 
> 
> On 20 Jun 06, at 6:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> 
> > lha kalau yg ini p'gimana mau dibantah??
> > 
> > < http://geocities. 
> > com/jusfiq_babi/> http://geocities.
> >  com/jusfiq_babi/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: islamkristen@ 
> > yahoogroups.com [mailto: islamkristen@
> >  yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> > Jusfiq Hadjar Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:20 PM To:
> > malaekat.jibril@  12MOVE.NL
> > Subject: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re:
> > [islamkristen] pengakuanku
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bagi yang tidak sempat melihat posting dibawah yang dikirim
> > bulan Februari yang lalu... 
> > 
> > Perhatikan kalimat: 
> > 
> > --- 
> > 
> > P.S. 
> > 
> > I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com
> > This email is fake. 
> > 
> > - 
> > 
> > Jadi jelas buat siapapun juga: posting itu adalah ghost mail. 
> > 
> > Dan saya cari pakai fasilitas 'search' dengan memakai IP 
> > 64.110.104.131... 
> > 
> > Dan nama siapa yang muncul? 
> > 
> > dian pratama, kento dan aries wijaya. 
> > 
> > Sungguh jelas, siapa yang mengirim ghost mail itu. 
> > 
> > = 
> > 
> > On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote: 
> > 
> > seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia hina,
> > penikmat dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin binatang, aku
> > sungguh manusia hina, ibuku aku sodomi hingga meninggal. 
> > 
> > 
> > P.S.
> > I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com
> > This email is fake. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Orang Islam tipikal & ghost mail...



Dihadapan ghost mail berisifitnah yang sering dikirim oleh Dian
Pratama beberapa peserta mailinglist ini telah bersikap seperti
anjing budug lapar yang melihat seonggok taik angat... 

Dan yang jadi korban itu, tanpa kecuali, adalah orang Islam.

Tidak ada yang merasa heran akan isinya yang begitu absurd dan
kosa katanya yang begitu lain dari kosa kata yang saya pakai
dan...yang begitu mirip dengan kosa kata yang suka dipakai
DianPratama... 

;.. 

 saya dan... 

gnsungguhlaindari berusaha untuk 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Almost all terrorists are Muslims: Abdel Rahman al-Rashed [18847512]



Saya repost tulisan ini, sekedar untuk mengingatkan kita akan
wajah Islam yang sekarang kudu ditatap oleh orang Islam sendiri...

Dan orang Islam tipikal kudu sadar bahwa ini disebabkan karena
ajaran agamanya itu adalah buas, ganas, kejam lagi keji karena
tidak menentang kekerasan... 

Terus menyalahkan orang lain, terutama Yahudi atau Nasrani tidak
akan mengubah kenyataan... 

Tapi yang paling menyedihkan dari segalanya itu adalah bahwa
ajaran Islam itu hanya berdasarkan kepada 'Katanya..."  

'Katanya", al-Musahf itu berisi wahyu Allah. 

Tapi tanpa  bukti. 

"Katanya" hadits itu ada yang sahih.. 

Tapi tanpa bukti. 



---


Thursday, 9, September, 2004 (24, Rajab, 1425) 


A Wake-up Call : Almost all terrorists are Muslims.. 
Abdel Rahman al-Rashed* 





It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is
equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists
are Muslims. 

The hostage-takers of children in Beslan, North Ossetia, were 
Muslims. The other hostage-takers and subsequent murderers of the
Nepalese chefs and workers in Iraq were also Muslims. Those involved
in rape and murder in Darfur, Sudan, are Muslims, with other Muslims
chosen to be their victims. 

Those responsible for the attacks on residential towers in Riyadh and
Khobar were Muslims. The two women who crashed two airliners last 
week
were also Muslims. 

Osama bin Laden is a Muslim. The majority of those who manned the
suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and
buildings, all over the world, were Muslim. 

What a pathetic record. What an abominable "achievement." Does all
this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture? 

These images, when put together or taken separately, are shameful and
degrading. But let us start with putting an end to a history of
denial. Let us acknowledge their reality, instead of denying them and
seeking to justify them with sound and fury signifying nothing. 

For it would be easy to cure ourselves if we realize the seriousness
of our sickness. Self-cure starts with self-realization and
confession. We should then run after our terrorist sons, in the full
knowledge that they are the sour grapes of a deformed culture. 

Let us listen to Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the sheikh  the Qatar-based
radical Egyptian cleric  and hear him recite his fatwa about the
religious permissibility of killing civilian Americans in Iraq. Let us
contemplate the incident of this religious sheikh allowing, nay even
calling for, the murder of civilians. 

This ailing sheikh, in his last days, with two daughters studying in
"infidel" Britain, soliciting children to kill innocent civilians. 

How could this sheikh face the mother of the youthful Nick Berg, who
was slaughtered in Iraq because he wanted to build communication
towers in that ravished country? How can we believe him when he tells
us that Islam is the religion of mercy and peace while he is turning
it into a religion of blood and slaughter? 

In a different era, we used to consider the extremists, with 
nationalist or leftist leanings, a menace and a source of corruption
because of their adoption of violence as a means of discourse and
their involvement in murder as an easy shortcut to their objectives. 

At that time, the mosque used to be a haven, and the voice of 
religion used to be that of peace and reconciliation. Religious 
sermons were warm behests for a moral order and an ethical life. 

Then came the neo-Muslims. An innocent and benevolent religion, whose
verses prohibit the felling of trees in the absence of urgent
necessity, that calls murder the most heinous of crimes, that says
explicitly that if you kill one person you have killed humanity as a
whole, has been turned into a global message of hate and a universal
war cry. 

We can't call those who take schoolchildren as hostages our own. 

We cannot tolerate in our midst those who abduct journalists, murder
civilians, explode buses; we cannot accept them as related to us,
whatever the sufferings they claim to justify their criminal deeds.
These are the people who have smeared Islam and stained its image. 

We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that
terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive
monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women. 

We cannot redeem our extremist youths, who commit all these heinous
crimes, without confronting the sheikhs who thought it ennobling to
reinvent themselves as revolutionary ideologues, sending other
people's sons and daughters to certain death, while sending their own
children to European and American schools and colleges. 



*Abdel Rahman al-Rashed is general manager of Al-Arabiya news 
channel. This article first appeared in the London-based pan-Arabic
newspaper Al-Sharq Al-Awsat. 






Copyright: Arab News © 2003 All rights reserved. Site designed by:
arabix and powered by Eima IT 




-

[proletar] Reposting: The Myth of Mecca



The Myth of Mecca

By Jack Wheeler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

9/27/2001 



The most sacred spot on earth to all members of the Islamic 
religion is the Holy City of Mecca, revered as the birthplace of
Mohammed. It is one of the five basic requirements incumbent upon all
Moslems that they make (if their health will allow it) a pilgrimage to
Mecca once in their lives (the other four: recognize that there is no
god but Allah, that Mohammed is Allah's prophet, ritually pray five
times a day, and give alms to the poor).

The founding events of Islam are Mohammed's activities in Mecca 
and Medina, a city north of Mecca. The life of Mohammed, known 
as the Sira, is popularly accepted to be fully documented 
historically, that everything he did and said was accurately 
recorded. According to one hagiographer, although Mohammed 
"could not read or write himself, he was constantly served by a 
group of 45 scribes who wrote down his sayings, instructions and
activities We thus know his life down to the minutest details."

The evidence for this is "the earliest and most famous biography of
Mohammed," the Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of the Prophet of God) of
Ibn Ishaq. The dates given for Mohammed's life are 570-632 AD. Ibn
Ishaq was born about 717 and died in 767. He thus wrote his biography
well over 100 years after Mohammed lived, precluding his gaining any
information from eyewitnesses to the Sira as they would have all died
themselves in the intervening years.

However, no copies exist of Ibn Ishaq's work. We know of it only
through quotations of it in the History of al-Tabari, who lived over
two hundred years after Ibn Ishaq (al-Tabari died in 992). Thus the
earliest biography of Mohammed of which copies still exist was written
some 350 years after Mohammed lived.

It is curious, therefore, that there seems to have been so little
serious scholarly research of the historical evidence for how Islam
came to be. Yet what seems to be isn't so. A number of professional
academic historians, both Western and Moslem, have produced a large
body of research on the origins of Islam. For reasons best known to
the pundits and reviewers who should be aware of it, this research
remains publicly unknown.

Dr. Patricia Crone, who received her doctorate under Prof. John 
Wansbrough at the University of London's School of Oriental and 
African Studies, was Lecturer in Islamic Studies at Oxford and 
Cambridge, and is currently History Professor at Princeton 
University, is an example. In her book, Meccan Trade and the Rise of
Islam, Dr. Crone demonstrates that Islam did not originate in Mecca. 

Mecca is located in the Hejaz region of what is today Saudi Arabia. It
is portrayed by traditional belief as a wealthy trading center, full
of merchants trading goods by caravan from Yemen in the south and
Syria and the Byzantium empire in the north. Crone shows that Mecca
was in fact way off the incense route from Yemen to Syria, which
bypassed where Mecca is today by over 100 miles. Further, there is no
mention whatever of Mecca in contemporary non-Moslem sources:

"It is obvious that if the Meccans had been middlemen in a long-
distance trade of the kind described in (traditional Islamic) 
literature, there ought to have been some mention of it in the 
writings of their customers... who wrote extensively about the south
Arabians who supplied them with aromatics. (Despite) the considerable
attention paid to Arabian affairs there is no mention at all of
Quraysh (the tribe of Mohammed) and their trading center (Mecca), be
it in the Greek, Latin, Syraic, Aramaic, Coptic, or other literature
composed outside Arabia ." (p. 134)

An exhaustive examination of all available evidence and sources 
leads Crone to conclude that Mohammed's career took place not in Mecca
and Medina or in southwest Arabia at all, but in northwest Arabia.
Agreeing with her is Islamic historian Mohammed Ibn al- Rawandi. He
observes that it took some 150-200 hundred years after the Arab
Conquest which began in the 620s for places that had gone unremarked
and unregarded to become places of reverence associated with the
Prophet. Mohammed's supposed birthplace in Mecca, for example, was
used as an ordinary home until al-Khayzuran, the mother of the first
Caliph of Baghdad Harun al-Rashid, made it a house of prayer some 150
years after Mohammed's death.

For an increasing number of Islamic historians, the tradition of
Mohammed being the source and explanation of the Arab Conquest,
wherein Arab tribesmen on horseback emerged out of the Arabian deserts
to conquer Syria, Mesopotamia, Persia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, and
Spain in less than 80 years (636- 712), stands history on its head.
They demonstrate that the story of Mohammed uniting various Arab
tribes like Genghiz Khan did for the Mongols, and providing them with
the religious fervor to conquer in the name of Islam, is "sacred
history," rather than real history. Historian Gordon Newby explains:

"The myth of an original orth

[proletar] Mythomania Hidayat Nataatmajakumat... RE: [islamkristen] seperti pengakuan juspig

Mythomania Hidayat Nataatmaja kumat... 

Dia palsukan lagi posting saya yang kemudian dikomentarinya
sendiri... 

On 20 Jun 06, at 6:42, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> walah! si bandot kok malah buka kartu ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent:
> Monday, June 19, 2006 10:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Dian..darimana anda tau saya ketua OSIS di RSJ.
> sepanjang pengetahuan saya, dari usia puber saya kan dipasung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Yesus Boker Sent:
> Monday, June 19, 2006 10:20 PM To: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [islamkristen] seperti pengakuan juspig
> 
> 
> 
> seperti pengakuannya sendiri dengan tulus lagi khusuk, juspig adalah
> tua renta bau yang berkepribadian ganda. jadi harap maklum dengan
> tingkah tua nya. hari ini bicara A, besok yang A itu diubahnya sendiri
> menjadi B. Maklumlah, alumni Rumah Sakit Jiwa. malah kabarnya jusfiq
> ketua OSIS di RSJ tersebut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Hidayat Nataatmaja & ghost mail...,RE: Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku

Hidayat Nataatmaja yang mythoman itu  toh akhirnya nggak bisa
terus-terusan menutup mata akan kenyataan berikut: 

- posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri saya itu adalah ghost
mail... 

- pengirimnya adalah Dian Pratama.. 

Tapi dia tidak menyatakan penyesalahannya atas kelakuannnya yang
mengulang-ulang mengirim kembali ghost mail bikinan Dian Pratama
itu... 

Nggak. 

Dia malah menunjukkan website yang ber tema dan berkosa kata
yang sama dengan ghost mail kiriman Dian Pratama. 

Orang Islam tipikal kayak  Hidayat  Nataatmaja ini sekali
bertabiat nista tetap bertabiat nista... 

On 20 Jun 06, at 6:32, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> lha kalau yg ini p'gimana mau dibantah??
> 
>   http://geocities.com/jusfiq_babi/
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jusfiq Hadjar Sent:
> Monday, June 19, 2006 9:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:
> Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen]
> pengakuanku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bagi yang tidak sempat melihat posting dibawah yang dikirim
> bulan Februari yang lalu... 
> 
> Perhatikan kalimat: 
> 
> --- 
> 
> P.S. 
> 
> I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com This
> email is fake. 
> 
> - 
> 
> Jadi jelas buat siapapun juga: posting itu adalah ghost mail. 
> 
> Dan saya cari pakai fasilitas 'search' dengan memakai IP 
> 64.110.104.131... 
> 
> Dan nama siapa yang muncul? 
> 
> dian pratama, kento dan aries wijaya. 
> 
> Sungguh jelas, siapa yang mengirim ghost mail itu. 
> 
> = 
> 
> On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote: 
> 
> seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia hina, penikmat
> dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin binatang, aku sungguh
> manusia hina, ibuku aku sodomi hingga meninggal. 
> 
> 
> P.S.
> I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com This
> email is fake. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] RE: [zamanku] The Five Gospels pro Lawalata


Saya senang dengan kutipan "Jimmy Okberto" ini: 

"Mas Tawang , ... 

Cari dulu kebenaran didalam agama anda sendiri ... Baru bisa
mencari kesalahan agama orang lain ... Pemikiran anda adalah
cerminan yang ada didalam masyarakat Indonesia.." 

Atau persisnya, saya berusaha untuk mencari dan menujukkan apa
yang buruk dan busuk di ajaran agama saya sendiri... 

Karena mencari yang buruk adalah langkah pertama untuk
mengusahakan perbaikan... 

Dan saya berterima kasih bila ada orang lain yang menujukkan
keburukan dan kebusukan ajaran agama saya... 

Hanya dengan demikian ajaran Islam itu bisa dipercerdas
dan dimanusiawikan... 


On 19 Jun 06, at 23:11, tawangalun wrote:

> Maaf kemarin perlu ada ralat sedikit ttg ayat Yohanes I:1.
> Pada mulanya adalah Firman;Firman itu bersama sama dengan Allah dan
> Firman itu adalah Allah. Kalau anda tidak bingung dengan statement
> diatas maka tak ada lagi yang bisa membingungkan anda.Analognya
> begini: Pada mulanya Tawangalun;Tawangalaun itu bersama sama dg
> Lawalata dan Tawangalaun itu adalah Lawalata.Didalam The Five Gospels
> ayat tsb tidak masuk kategori 4 dus tidak mengandung kebenaran sama
> sekali.Sayang Muhamad fatah(mantan Kristen) lebih percaya ayat tsb
> dibanding Hukum Yang terutama Yesus seperti di Markus 12:29.Bunyi
> Hukum yang Terutama ialah:Tuhan Allah kita,Tuhan itu ESA.Mestinya
> Lawalata bisa mikir di Yohanes pasal 1 tadi Allah  kok tidak ESA sebab
> tadinya Yesus (Firman) kok berubah jadi Allah.Juga adanya 
> ketrinitasan diayat yang lain.Lantas mana yang dimenangkan dari dua
> ayat yang tabrakan tsb?Kalau saya Hukum Terutamalah (baca Jalan
> UTAMA)yang harus dimenangkan sebab ibarat jalan dia BOULEVARD sedang
> ayat yang lain tadi masih gang tikus betul gak. Waktu didalam diskusi
> diforum Arimatea si Muhamad fatah tadi bilang itulah ayat Bijbel yang
> sebagai dalil bahwa yesus itu Tuhan.Lantas saya katakan itulah pilar
> agama Kristen yang berbenturan dengan Hukum yang terutama Yesus. BTW
> wong Kristen sendirilah yang menerbitkan The Five Gospel,anda pasti
> baca bahwa disitu ayat Bijbel ada 5 kategori kesahihannya artinya
> memang ada tambahan dari manusia.Jadi benarlah Al-Baqarah 2: 79 yang
> berbunyi: Maka kecelakaan yang besarlah bagi orang2 yang menulis
> Alkitab dengan tangan mereka sendiri.Nah apa yang tertulis di Quran
> tadi wis diakui dewe sama wong Kristen,bahkan yang betul2 Firman Yesus
> katanya hanya ada 18%.Makane Allah perlu menurunkan Kitab edisi baru
> itu latar belakangnya begitu.Sebelum itu Injil turun karena Torat
> sudah diedit,Torat turun karena Zabur sudah diedit.Kok Quran tidak
> diedit lagi? Opo kalian belum tahu bahwa Quran yang ditempatnya Gus
> Dur = Yang ditempatnya AAGym = Yang dipunyai Raja fahd = Yang di
> Masjid Melbourne  = Yang dimasjid New York = yang dimusium
> manapun.Jadi untuk apa Allah menurunkan Kitab lagi wong itu terbukti
> sudah wantex kok. Coba Bijbelnya Lawalata dengan punya saya Holy Bible
> terbitan Gideon kan sudah lain,dengan terbitan Kristen Baptis sudah
> lain.Sama2 Alkitab terbitan LAI antara edisi 1960 dengan 1970 keatas
> wis beda dan itu temenku dua2nya punya jadi bukan bohongan itu.Oo itu
> kan esensinya gak berubah,siapa bilang babi dengan babi hutan kok gak
> berubah. Shalom, Tawangalun.
> 
> - In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jimmy Okberto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote: > Mas Tawang , ... > Cari dulu kebenaran didalam agama anda
> sendiri ... > Baru bisa mencari kesalahan agama orang lain ... >
> Pemikiran anda adalah cerminan yang ada didalam masyarakat Indonesia >
> Haryo Penangsang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Biar tambah pinter ayat
> Bijbel baca ini.Kok ada 5 kategori kipiye.Quran > hanya ada satu
> kategori lo. > The Five Gospels >  
>  > The Search for the
> Authentic Words of Jesus > Robert W. Funk, Roy W. Hoover, > and the
> Jesus Seminar
>  els > .JPG> The Five Gospels is the extraordinary report of the Jesus
> >  >
> Seminar on the sayings attributed to Jesus. The scholars of the
> Seminar > analyzed the likely authenticity of the more than 1,500
> sayings > attributed to Jesus in the gospels. The text of the sayings
> is > color-coded >
>  tin > g5g.html>  red, pink, gray or black, according to the consensus
> of the > scholars: red (Jesus undoubtedly said this or something like
> it), pink > (Jesus probably said something like this), gray (Jesus did
> not say this, > but the ideas are close to his own), black (Jesus did
> not say this; it > represents the content of a later or different
> tradition). >  >
>  htm > l> Special offer > "One of the most significant religious books
> ever published is The Five > Gos

[proletar] The Five Gospels pro Lawalata

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik tawangalun


Biar tambah pinter ayat Bijbel baca ini.Kok ada 5 kategori 
kipiye.Quran hanya ada satu kategori lo.
  The Five Gospels

The Search for the Authentic Words of Jesus 
  Robert W. Funk, Roy W. Hoover,
and the Jesus Seminar   The Five Gospels is the extraordinary report 
of the Jesus Seminar on the sayings attributed to Jesus. The 
scholars of the Seminar analyzed the likely authenticity of the more 
than 1,500 sayings attributed to Jesus in the gospels. The text of 
the sayings is color-coded red, pink, gray or black, according to 
the consensus of the scholars: red (Jesus undoubtedly said this or 
something like it), pink (Jesus probably said something like this), 
gray (Jesus did not say this, but the ideas are close to his own), 
black (Jesus did not say this; it represents the content of a later 
or different tradition).   Special offer   "One 
of the most significant religious books ever published is The Five 
Gospels." Christian Social Action 
  "Readers of this book will have received a magnificent 
education in the methods and conclusions of serious biblical 
scholarship." Free Inquiry 
  "This volume is filled with discoveries, surprises, 
and rich treasures." Ecumenical Trends
  "A landmark work of exceptional quality." Encounter

  Robert W. Funk is Director of the Westar Institute and founder of 
the Jesus Seminar.   Retail Price: $35.00  Become a Westar 
Institute Member and receive a 20% discount off the retail 
price. Add to Shopping Cart
Excerpts from The Five Gospels   Order by mail or fax using the 
Printable Book Order FormA Polebridge Press Book from Scribner
Harcover, 578 pages, illustrated
 1993 ISBN 0-02-541949-8   Copyright 









 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Kroni Soeharto Terus Diusut

CENDRAWASIH POS

Senin, 19 Juni 2006



















































Kroni Soeharto Terus Diusut 

JAKARTA-Kejagung menegaskan pengusutan dugaan korupsi program mobnas tetap 
berlanjut meski PN Jaksel membatalkan penerbitan SKPP (surat ketetapan 
penghentian penuntutan) kasus Soeharto. Tim penyelidik kini tengah menelusuri 
unsur perbuatan melawan hukum dan merugikan negara dengan memanggil sejumlah 
saksi, termasuk dari PT Timor Putra Nasional (TPN). ''Putusan praperadilan SKPP 
tidak mempengaruhi proses penyelidikan kasus mobnas. Kejagung tetap mengusut 
kasus tersebut,'' kata Direktur Penuntutan Marwan Effendy saat dihubungi di 
Jakarta tadi malam. 

Sekadar mengingatkan, kasus mobnas dibuka lagi menyusul desakan kalangan Komisi 
III DPR yang kecewa atas penerbitan SKPP kasus korupsi tujuh yayasan Rp 1,7 
triliun. Komisi yang membidangi hukum minta pengusutan kroni Soeharto terus 
dilakukan, termasuk kasus mobnas yang melibatkan Tommy Soeharto. Tim penyelidik 
telah memanggil sedikitnya 18 pihak yang mengetahui kebijakan program mobnas. 
Mereka berasal dari Bank Mandiri, PT TPN, BPPN (Badan Penyehatan Perbankan 
Nasional), dan Ditjen Pajak. 

Menurutnya, putusan PN Jaksel hanya terkait penerbitan SKPP kasus Soeharto. Itu 
pun belum berkekuatan hukum tetap. Kejagung telah mendaftarkan memori banding 
ke PT (Pengadilan Tinggi) DKI melalui PN Jaksel. ''Tak ada pengaruhnya dengan 
kasus lainnya, termasuk kasus mobnas,'' jelas mantan Wakajati Jawa Timur ini. 

Sedang Kapuspenkum Kejagung Wayan Pasek Suarta menegaskan tim penyelidik 
bekerja keras mengungkap sejumlah alat bukti terkait keterlibatan beberapa 
pihak tertentu dalam program mobnas. Utamanya, pemberian fasilitas pembebasan 
BM (bea masuk) terhadap PT TPN. ''Penyelidikan masih berjalan. Bila ada bukti 
kuat nanti akan ditingkatkan ke penyidikan,'' jelas Pasek kepada koran ini tadi 
malam. Arah penyelidikan adalah menemukan perbuatan melawan hukum, memperkara 
orang lain, dan kerugian negara. 

Sementara itu, kroni Soeharto yang tengah dibidik Kejagung adalah mantan Dirjen 
Bea Cukai (1991-1998) Soehardjo. Pejabat di era Soeharto itu menjadi terdakwa 
kasus korupsi restitusi atas BM impor Rp 50 miliar itu kini persidangannya 
memasuki pembacaan putusan sela pada Selasa besok. ''Persidangannya memasuki 
putusan sela. Mudah-mudahan majelis hakim menolak eksepsi,'' kata Ali 
Mukartono, koordinator tim JPU (jaksa penuntut umum), kepada koran ini. 

Kasus Soehardjo sejatinya cukup menarik. Sebab, Jaksa Agung Abdul Rahman Saleh 
pada raker akhir Mei lalu menegaskan keseriusan Kejagung menyeret para kroni 
Soeharto ke meja hijau. Salahsatunya adalah Soehardjo. Menariknya lagi, kasus 
Soehardjo baru diajukan ke PN Jakarta Utara (Jakut) awal Mei lalu. Padahal, 
penyidikannya sudah berlangsung sejak awal 2003 silam. 

Menurut Ali, Soehardjo yang dekat dengan Jaksa Agung Singgih ini kini menjadi 
tahanan kota Kejari Jakut karena yang bersangkutan sering sakit-sakitan. ''Kita 
nggak tega untuk menahan,'' jelas Ali yang juga anggota Timtastipikor ini. Ia 
minta wartawan terus memantau persidangan mengingat kasus ini menarik perhatian 
public karena melibatkan kroni Soeharto. 

Dari informasi JPNN menyebutkan, Soehardjo diperiksa dan dinyatakan sebagai 
tersangka oleh Kejari Jakut, tepatnya Februari 2003. Adalah HR Musa, Kajari 
Jakarta Utara, yang kali pertama mengumumkannya. Intinya, Soehardjo dituding 
menyalahgunakan jabatannya untuk menarik uang negara (restitusi) secara tidak 
sah. Negara pun dirugikan ratusan miliar. Ini terkait kebijakan Soehardjo pada 
1997-1998 yang mengeluarkan SK dengan mengatasnamakan Menkeu. 

Hingga tahun berganti, perkembangan kasus itu seperti menguap. Yang terdengar 
justru: H.R. Musa digeser lantaran isu uang terkait kasus itu. Semester akhir 
2004, Mohammad Salim menggantikan Musa. Salim menegaskan penyidikan Soehardjo 
jalan terus meski tidak pernah dilimpahkan ke pengadilan. Nah, berganti Jaksa 
Agung, di era Abdul Rahman Saleh, Soehardjo akhirnya diseret ke pengadilan. 

Menariknya lagi, Soehardjo adalah salah satu Dirjen Bea Cukai yang menganulir 
permintaan Dirjen Pajak agar Tommy dikenai pajak BM terkait impor mobil dari 
KIA Motors dalam program mobnas. (agm) 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.y

[proletar] Wartawan, Siapa Melindungi?

http://www.indomedia.com/bpost/062006/20/opini/opini2.htm

 
Wartawan, Siapa Melindungi?



AKHIR 1970-an, terjadi hal yang tidak mengenakkan bagi pers. Beberapa wartawan 
yang akan bertugas meliput kelaparan di salah satu desa di Jawa, harus 
bergerilya bak seorang pejuang yang masuk ke daerah musuh. Mulai camat, mantri 
polisi (sekarang Kepala Polisi Pagar Praja) sampai lurah dan aparat desa siaga 
penuh mencegat masuknya wartawan yang tercium lebih dulu. Melalui jalan desa, 
mereka dicegat camat. Lewat jalan setapak ada mantri polisi dan menyusuri 
sungai yang kering dihadang lurah. Tujuan mereka cuma satu, jangan sampai 
musibah kelaparan dengan penderita busung laparnya muncul di koran, sebab 
akibatnya bisa fatal. Lurah, camat dan seterusnya bisa lengser. Tapi mereka 
kalah sabar dengan wartawan, sehingga berita kelaparan itu muncul juga di koran 
dan ... tak lama kemduian camatnya diganti.

Pada tahun-tahun akhir 1970-an itu adalah masa jayanya pemerintahan Orde Baru 
(Orba). Tak ada satu pun yang berani melawan Soeharto. Semua aparat dari bawah 
sampai atas harus seia sekata bahwa pemerintahan Orba berhasil. Kebetulan saat 
itu penghasilan dari minyak masih bagus, banyak proyek dibangun sampai ke 
desa-desa. Pemenuhan sandang, pangan dan papan adalah tolok ukur keberhasilan 
pada waktu itu. Karena itu, kasus kelaparan harus disimpan rapat-rapat. 
Lebih-lebih kalau ada penderita busung lapar. Wartawan harus siap untuk tidak 
memberitakan, kalau penguasa menghendaki.

Dalam masa otonomi daerah (otda) seperti sekarang, ukuran tingkat 
keberhasilannya berbeda. Tingginya angka Anggaran Pendapatan dan Belanja Daerah 
(APBD), utamanya lagi Pengasilan Asli Daerah (PAD) menjadi tolok ukur utama. 
Kelaparan, busung lapar, wabah penyakit, kebodohan bukan lagi ukuran. Karena 
itu, walau sekarang kelaparan atau wabah penyakit terjadi di sejumlah daerah, 
pemerintah setempat tetap tenang. Mereka malah lebih mempersoalkan kemunculan 
beritanya daripada kasusnya. Ada kepala daerah yang begitu dilantik lantas 
berpikir untuk masa jabatan kedua, sampai-sampai harus perang dingin dengan 
wakilnya yang berasal dari partai lain karena saling berebut pengaruh. Mereka 
tetap berkepentingan agar berita yang muncul di koran selalu yang baik-baik 
saja, sehingga bisa menjadi modal pada pemilihan kepala daerah yang akan datang.

Apa yang kita uraikan di atas adalah untuk menggambarkan betapa berita di koran 
itu penting, tetapi wartawan tidak selalu menjadi 'orang penting'. Kalau perlu 
kehadirannya ditolak, dicegat sana cegat sini, dicaki maki dan sumpah serapah. 
Terakhir adalah kasus dihajarnya 10 wartawan dari Jakarta oleh orang tak 
dikenal, saat mereka yang diundang Pemerintah Provinsi Kalimantan Timur itu 
memasuki wilayah Kabupaten Kutai Kertanegara, kabupaten terkaya di Indonesia. 
Tanpa komentar apa pun, sekitar 15 orang yang membuntuti dengan kendaraan lain 
dan menyergap wartawan yang tengah melihat-lihat sambil memotret suasana. 

Wartawan tidak siap dan hanya berteriak-teriak. Sementara orang-orang tak 
dikenal yang bersikap seperti preman itu, seenaknya memukuli wartawan. Setelah 
selesai mereka pergi tanpa merebut apa pun barang wartawan. Kabarnya polisi 
kini tengah mengusut peristiwa itu, tetapi rasanya pesimis saja untuk 
mengungkap kasus ini. Sampai sekarang kasusnya masih gelap, tidak jelas apa 
latar belakangnya. Yang pasti wartawan gagal masuk ke daerah itu.

Siapa sebenarnya yang harus melindungi tugas wartawan? Wartawan Harian Bernas 
Yogyakarta, Udin, tewas dianiaya setelah diambil dari rumahnya pada malam hari. 
Di Jawa Timur, ada wartawan ditemukan tewas dengan banyak luka. Begitu pula di 
Sumatera Utara. Semua itu berlatar pemberitaan. Itu memang bagian dari risiko, 
tetapi wartawan juga berhak mendapat perlindungan dalam tugasnya. Selama ini 
undang-undang hanya membatasi gerak wartawan agar beritanya tidak sampai 
melanggar ketentuan perundangan. Tetapi tidak ada yang mengatur bagaimana 
melindungi wartawan yang melakukan tugas jurnalistik.

Kita sepaham, sekarang demikian banyak media massa dengan jumlah wartawan yang 
tidak terbilang lagi. Di antara mereka ada yang hanya memanfaatkan profesi 
wartawan untuk mencari keuntungan sendiri. Kita setuju, wartawan seperti ini 
dihukum karena mereka tidak punya karya jurnalistik. Mereka hanya mencari uang 
dengan berkedok wartawan. Tetapi wartawan yang benar-benar menjalankan 
profesinya tentu harus mendapatkan perlindungan.

Publik internasional sampai saat ini masih terus mempersoalkan tewasnya seorang 
wartawan dari Australia di Timor Timur, menjelang jajak pendapat. Artinya, ada 
kewajiban moral dari mereka untuk melindungi wartawan. Di Indonesia justru 
terbalik, wartawan yang tengah bertugas bisa disatroni daripada membuka borok 
yang bisa memberikan citra buruk bagi penguasanya.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the a

[proletar] Hidayat Nurwahid: "AS dan Australia mengucapkan terima kasih pada Indonesia

http://www.harianterbit.com/artikel.php?kategori=NASIONAL&id=40304

18 June 2006 - 10:40

Hidayat Nurwahid: "AS dan Australia mengucapkan terima kasih pada Indonesia


JAKARTA - Ketua MPR RI Hidayat Nurwahid mengatakan, Amerika Serikat dan 
Australia harusnya mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Indonesia dalam menangani 
terorisme.

"Indonesia dalam melawan terorisme tidak perlu menggunakan senjata perang yang 
canggih cukup dengan hukum, pelaku-pelaku teroris sudah dapat ditangkap dan 
dihukum sesuai dengan perbuatannya," ujarnya di Pekanbaru,

Hidayat Nurwahid berada di Pekanbaru untuk menghadiri dan menjadi juru kampanye 
(jurkam) pemilihan kepala daerah (pilkada) atas calon yang diusung Partai 
Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) Erwandi Saleh-Ayat Cahyadi.

Ia mengatakan, apa yang dilakukan AS dan sekutunya termasuk Australia di Irak 
yang menyisakan kesengsaraan yang berkepanjangan terhadap rakyat Irak.

Dengan dalih memerangi terorisme, AS dan sekutunya memborbardir Irak, tapi 
nyatanya apa yang menjadi dalih mereka itu tidak terbukti, ujar Hidayat.

"Indonesia dalam memerangi terorisme tidak seperti itu dan buktinya sangat 
fantastis sekali, sejumlah teroris berhasil di tangkap," katanya.

Menjawab tentang permintaan Australia agar pemerintahan Indonesia tetap 
melakukan pengawasan terhadap Ustad Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, dia mengatakan, 
Australia harus menghormati keputusan hukum yang telah di buat Indonesia.

"Ustad Abu Bakar Ba'asyir telah menjalani hukuman sesuai dengan vonisnya. 
Australia harus menghormati putusan hukum di Indonesia," tegas Hidayat yang 
ditemui sebelum berkampanye untuk pasangan Erwandy-Ayat.(ideka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Menpan: Hentikan Korupsi dan Kebodohan

http://www.gatra.com/artikel.php?id=95538


Menpan: Hentikan Korupsi dan Kebodohan


Jambi, 19 Juni 2006 13:14
Menteri Negara Pendayagunaan Aparatur Negara (Menpan) Taufik Efendi menegaskan, 
Indonesia harus menghentikan korupsi dan kebodohan, karena sorotan dunia 
internasional terhadap negeri ini cukup memalukan.

"Kita bangsa Indonesia jangan bangga disebut negara nomor satu paling korup di 
Asia dan nomor lima dunia, justru itu memalukan," kata Meneg PAN ketika 
berdialog dengan Ormas Forum Rakyat Indonesia Bersatu (Forum RI-1) di Jambi, 
Senin.

Taufik Efendi selaku Ketua Dewan Kehormatan Forum RI-1 mengatakan, sulit 
percaya Indonesia terkorup di dunia.

"Bagaimana mungkin saya percaya itu jika melihat orang-orang Indonesia yang 
taat beragama dan sholat," katan Taufik, yang banyak menyetir ayat-ayat suci 
Al-Quran.

Korupsi di Indonesia merajela karena peluang dan kesempatan selama ini selalu 
terbuka, sementara penegakan hukum berjalan setengah hati.

Akibat korupsi rakyat kian banyak miskin dan bodoh, karena tidak diiringi 
dengan pendidikan yang memadai. Birokrasi yang berbelit-belit pun membuat 
rakyat kian miskin dan investasi asing lari.

Ia mengakui, para tersangka korupsi yang telah banyak diadili dan dihukum juga 
tidak pernah mengakui kesalahan dan kejahatan merampas uang negara dan uang 
rakyat.

"Coba siapa yang mau mengakui korupsi. Pasti tidak ada yang mengakui, akibatnya 
korupsi itu mulai dari tingkat atas sampai bawah terus berlangsung," katanya.

Bangsa Indonesia yang sudah 60 tahun merdeka harus menghentikan dan memerangi 
korupsi dan kebodohan itu.

"Kita ratusan tahun dijajah Belanda dan beberapa tahun dijajah Jepang, karena 
bangsa kita bodoh. Coba kalau kita pandai mana mungkin dijajah," katanya lagi.

Seharusnya Indonesia bisa meniru Korea setelah dijajah Jepang, yang bertekad 
memajukan bangsanya melalui pendidikan tanpa korupsi untuk bisa lebih maju dari 
Jepang.

Korea membuktikan itu dengan belajar dan belajar dan tidak mau menggunakan 
produk Jepang. Kini Korea Selatan dan Korea Utara bersaing dengan Jepang soal 
ekonomi dan teknologi. [TMA, Ant] 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Aneka Ragam Laskar Jalanan

http://www.gatra.com/artikel.php?id=95557


Aneka Ragam Laskar Jalanan




Front Pembela Islam (FPI)

Tidak Kebal Hukum
Deklarasi : 17 Agustus 1998
Markas : Jalan Petamburan III Nomor 83, Jakarta Pusat
Klaim jumlah anggota : 15 juta simpatisan
Syarat keanggotaan : Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jamaah
Donasi : Swadaya dan donatur tidak tetap
Ketua Umum : Al-Habib Muhammad Rizieq bin Husein Syihab

Sebagai organisasi, umur Front Pembela Islam (FPI) bisa dibilang masih 
kanak-kanak. Namun gemanya lebih nyaring ketimbang gerakan Islam lain yang 
lebih tua. Berulang kali FPI menyita perhatian publik dan menyesaki pemberitaan 
media pers. Perkumpulan ini bahkan telah menyandang predikat khas: gerakan 
antimaksiat. Memang ada pula yang mencapnya sebagai kaum anarkis.

Dari sebuah tablig akbar di Pesantren Al-Um, Kampung Utan, Ciputat, selatan 
Jakarta, FPI dideklarasikan oleh belasan habib, kiai, mubalig, dan ratusan 
santri dari seantero Jabotabek. Hadirnya FPI adalah bagian dari apa yang 
populer disebut "ledakan partisipasi" dalam era reformasi. Saat elemen 
masyarakat lain menyerukan reformasi politik, ekonomi, atau hukum, FPI 
mengumandangkan reformasi moral. "Krisis bangsa ini berpangkal pada krisis 
moral," kata Ketua Umum FPI, Habib Rizieq.

Habitat Jakarta yang sarat tempat maksiat memberikan suntikan spirit tersendiri 
bagi aksi-aksi FPI. Menurut Rizieq, FPI muncul sebagai respons spontan dari 
umat Islam yang prihatin terhadap maksiat di sekitarnya. Sejumlah aksi FPI 
seringkali memang harus berhadapan dengan kelompok-kelompok masyarakat yang 
menentang aksi-aksi mereka. Apalagi, ''sweeping'' yang dilakukan FPI seringkali 
berujung aksi kekerasan. "Karakter gerakan kami jelas, yaitu lugas dan tanpa 
kompromi," ujarnya.

Namun Rizieq berkilah, kekerasan yang dilakukan bukan kekerasan sebagai cermin 
kebengisan hati dan kekasaran sikap. Sebab, dalam Islam, hal itu sangat 
dilarang. Yang sesungguhnya, itu lebih merupakan cermin ketegaran prinsip dan 
sikap.

Apa yang dilakukan FPI, kata Rizieq, karena telah terjadi kemandulan dalam 
sistem penegakan hukum. "Kalau hukum sudah ditegakkan, baru FPI akan mundur," 
Rizieq menambahkan.

Toh, FPI sendiri, menurut Rizieq, selalu siap menerima konsekuensi hukum dari 
apa yang dilakukannya. Pada aksi menolak majalah Playboy, misalnya, ada dua 
komandan FPI yang ditahan hingga sekarang. Begitu pula di Bekasi, ada 21 
anggota FPI yang ditahan. Malah kantor FPI pernah disatroni polisi. "Tak ada 
yang kebal hukum," Rizieq menegaskan.



Forum Betawi Rempug (FBR)

Tidak Ada Cat Tergores
Deklarasi : 29 Juli 2001
Markas : Pondok Pesantren Yatim Ziyadatul Mubtadi'ien, Jalan Raya
Penggilingan Pedaengan Nomor 100, Cakung, Jakarta Timur
Klaim jumlah anggota : 1,7 Juta orang
Syarat keanggotaan : Etnis Betawi. Etnis lain wajib sudah tiga tahun menetap di 
Jakarta
Donasi : Hasil usaha, swadaya, dan donatur tidak mengikat
Ketua Umum : H. Fadholy El Muhir

Meski berbasis kedaerahan, sepak terjang Forum Betawi Rempug (FBR) ''beken'' 
hingga seantero Nusantara. Sikapnya yang tegas mendukung Rancangan 
Undang-Undang Anti-Pornografi dan Pornoaksi (RUU APP) membuat organisasi yang 
digagas mantan anggota Dewan Pertimbangan Agung, H. Fadholy El Muhir, ini dicap 
sebagai organisasi preman jalanan. Bahkan belakangan FBR harus berhadapan 
dengan polisi.

Padahal, menurut Lutfi Hakim, 33 tahun, Sekjen FBR, pendirian organisasi ini 
dipicu rasa prihatin akan nasib warga Betawi. Penduduk asli Jakarta itu kini 
semakin tersingkir di pinggiran kota Jakarta. Sebagian tergilas roda-roda 
pembangunan di tanahnya sendiri. "Ide pokoknya adalah memberdayakan masyarakat 
Betawi," ujar Lutfi.

Sejumlah upaya dilakukan FBR. Antara lain membentuk lembaga pengembangan sumber 
daya manusia, mendirikan PT Fajar Berkah Restu yang bergerak di bidang 
perdagangan umum dan jasa, serta perusahaan jasa layanan keamanan. "Belum 
efektif. Tapi ke depannya, setiap wilayah akan memiliki koperasi anggota," kata 
mantan aktivis PDI kubu Soerjadi itu.

Belakangan, FBR menggeliat menjadi organisasi masa yang tidak saja melulu 
mengurusi soal Betawi. FBR juga meneropong isu-isu global yang ada di 
masyarakat. Menurut alumnus IAIN Ciputat itu, aksi FBR mendukung RUU APP, 
misalnya, adalah bagian dari dinamika organisasi yang memang bertujuan 
menegakkan amar ma'ruf nahyi munkar.

Tapi semua itu, menurut Lutfi, dilakukan dalam koridor hukum. Dalam kasus Inul, 
misalnya, pernyataan Inul yang siap berpose bugil di majalah Playboy mengusik 
FBR. Hal ini yang memicu FBR meluruk ke rumah Inul untuk berdemonstrasi. "Kami 
dituding anarkis, padahal tak ada cat di rumah Inul yang tergores sedikit pun," 
kata Lutfi.

Toh, beberapa kali sejumlah oknum FBR juga melakukan aksi anarkis yang berujung 
ke meja hijau. Pada 31 Maret 2003, misalnya, tujuh anggota FBR divonis bersalah 
karena menganiaya anggota Urban Poor Consortium pimpinan Wardah Hafidz di 
kantor Komnas HAM pada 28 Maret 2002. Mereka juga divonis karena merusak 
sejumlah perlengkapan k

[proletar] Who Are the Real Conjurors?

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=13§ion=0&article=83688&d=19&m=6&y=2006&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Local%20Press

Tuesday, 13, June, 2006 (17, Jumada al-Ula, 1427)

Who Are the Real Conjurors?
Nora Al-Saad . Al-Riyadh

Many newspapers, magazines and television programs seem to be
obsessed with reports of scandals involving sorcerers. For example the Al-Watan
newspaper recently reported an incident in which the Commission for the
Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice arrested a sorcerer.

The magician was caught in a classic sting operation
involving a man who was working in coordination with the commission. The man
contacted the sorcerer saying he wanted to marry a girl who he was in love with
and that the girl did not reciprocate the feeling. The man also told the
sorcerer he needed help in finding a well-paid job.

The newspaper reported that the magician promised to help the
man if he paid him SR2,500 and that for the time being he needed a SR300
deposit. The magician explained that the rest of the cash was to be paid once
the spell had been cast and that he needed the man to provide him with a ring
that would fit the girl he loved.

As soon as evidence was accumulated the magician was
arrested, the money confiscated and police raided his home. At the sorcerer's
house, police found verses of the Qur'an that were used for magic, notebooks
containing details of teachers who live and work in the area and scraps of
papers with spells written on them. When questioned the magician confessed he
dabbled in black magic and had cast a spell on a married couple in Abha in
order to separate them.

Reports such as these have become disturbingly common, an
indication of the increasing number of magicians living in Saudi Arabia. It
would seem that people that visit them and ask for their help are perhaps one
of the main reasons why magicians and the black magic industry thrives in the
Kingdom.

Reading such stories causes us to ask some serious questions.
Why do people resort to visiting magicians to solve their problems? Do the
religious courses at school not discourage us from resorting to black magic?
Shouldn't our belief in Allah's will and power override everything?

In studies conducted across various Arab countries, it has
been found that a large number of people who visit sorcerers are in fact PhD
holders with influential social positions. This forces us to question why
educated people, rather than illiterate people, resort to visiting such people?
Will it be that with growing literacy in Saudi Arabia people will increasingly
visit magicians?

In fact it seems that many magicians drive luxurious cars and
spend nights in expensive hotels. Some sorcerers even appear live on television
advising people through astrology and horoscopes. We really need to question
why magic is increasing and spreading in our Muslim communities? Don't we
realize what the punishment is for people who believe in magic?

The authorities in our country should pay attention to this
problem and conduct campaigns against these types of people. They need to
educate common people and make them aware of the harm black magic can cause and
what the religious prohibition is.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~->

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://proletar.8m.com/
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Jusuf Kalla : Teroris Menghina Nilai Demokrasi

http://www.tempointeraktif.com/hg/nasional/2006/06/19/brk,20060619-79125,id.html

Jusuf Kalla : Teroris Menghina Nilai Demokrasi
Senin, 19 Juni 2006 | 22:43 WIB 

TEMPO Interaktif, Jakarta: Wakil Persiden Jusuf Kalla mengatakan, aksi-aksi 
terorisme sangat jelas menghina nilai-nilai demokrasi. "Islam itu indah dan 
untuk kedamaian," ujar Jusuf Kalla dalam pertemuan dengan delegasi Konferensi 
Internasional Cendekiawan Muslim di kantornya di Jakarta, Senin (19/6) malam.

Dalam kesempatan tersebut, Kalla juga menyatakan perlunya meningkatkan 
pemahaman bersama antara Islam dan Barat. Dia juga mengingatkan pentingnya 
menggabungkan modernisasi dengan spiritual agar dapat mengimbangi moral, 
ekonomi, dan ilmu pengetahuan, guna mengikis tindakan-tindakan ekstrimisme. 
"Kita memiliki kemampuan bersama untuk menyatakan hal itu (mencitrakan Islam 
indah dan damai)," Kalla menambahkan.

Konferensi Internasional Cendekiawan Muslim yang akan dihadiri para perwakilan 
dari 50 negara akan dibuka besok di Jakarta. Presiden direncanakan akan membuka 
konferensi tersebut. 

Terkait ideologi Pancasila yang dianut Indonesia, Kalla mengatakan ,sebagai 
negara Islam terbesar, Indonesia percaya nilai Pancasila selalu relevan untuk 
memandu Indonesia menuju cita-cita pada saat ini maupun masa mendatang. Dalam 
Pancasila, lanjut Kalla, terkandung nilai-nilai Islam dan universal. 

Kalla juga menghimbau agar negara-negara Islam berkomitmen untuk terus 
mempromosikan dan memajukan demokrasi, serta menghargai nilai-nilai hak asasi 
manusia, dan patuh pada hukum. "Tentu ini tidak mudah dilakukan, tapi bukan hal 
yang mustahil bagi umat manusia untuk mengembangkan nilai-nilai toleransi," 
ujarnya. 

Sunariyah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Dian Pratama ketangkap basah oleh amrace69...(was Re: Al-kitab salah cetak...(was Re: [islamkristen] Pengakuan si s



Ketangkap basah berdusta bilang dia ketemu posting di hard disk
saya (padahal dia ketemu di internet), terbukti tukang kirim
ghost mail yang berisi fitnah, Dian Pratama yang adalah penipu
dan tukang fitnah ini, kali ini ketangkap basah unjuk
kemunafikan... 

Orang Islam tipikal rata-rata memang nista, tapi sungguh jarang
ada yang senista Dian Pratama ini. 



On 11 Sep 05, at 8:18, amrace69 wrote:

> Anda sudah akui bahwa pegang bible akan menyebabkan org jadi MUNAFIK
> (menurut versi anda). Skg anda kutip ayat2 Bibleberarti anda
> MUNAFIK !
> 
> Kasihan deh
> 
> senjata makan tuan...he..he..he
> 
> 
> 
> --- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, Dian Pratama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dari Injil juga jelas tampak Yesus menghardik dan dengan nada 
> menghina 
> > ibunya berkata :
> >  " Mau apakah engkau dari padaKu, Ibu ? SaatKu belum tiba." ( Yoh 
> 2:4 )
> >  Sebagai seorang ibu, apa yang akan Anda perbuat terhadap anak 
> Anda yang 
> > bilang gini, Hai perempuan ! Mau apakah engkau kesini ? Saatku 
> belum 
> > tiba. Ucapan diatas sama dengan ucapan Yesus sama emaknya.
> > Jesus saith unto her, " Woman, what have I to do with thee ? Mine 
> hour 
> > is not yet come." ( KJV John 2:4 )
> >  And Jesus said to her, " O woman, what have you to do with me ? 
> My hour 
> > has not yet come." ( RSV 1965 )
> > Jesus said to her, " Woman, this is not your business ; my time is
> > 
> still 
> > to come." ( Bible in Basic English ) Jesus says to her, " What 
> have I to 
> > do with thee, woman ? Mine hour has not yet come." ( John Nelson 
> Darby 
> > translation ) :
> > " Woman, what have you to do with me ?" ( John 2:4 NIV Bible )
> > 
> > Terlepas dari itu semua, ada sebuah saran : Jangan pernah lakukan 
> hal 
> > ini pada Ibu, ntar kualat, sama kayak Yesus yang mati mengenaskan
> > dipukulin masa.
> > 
> > Dian Pratama wrote:
> > 
> > >he he he he,
> > >kalian kira, para kristen melakukan seperti apa yang ditulis 
> dibible ?ha 
> > >ha ha ha, walaupun bible banyak campur tangan manusia, tapi masih
> > >
> banyak 
> > >juga ayat yang tidak bisa kalian hilangkan..
> > >emang terbukti kok, orang yang memegang bible munafikkalian 
> suka 
> > >bicara tentang cinta damai.munafik !!! lihat bagaimana yesus
> > >menghardik ibunya. ITU AJARAN CINTA KASIH/DAMAI ??? HA HA HA HA 
> HA HA
> > >tuhan gila, ibunya sendiri dihardik, tidak heran kualat kena 
> gebuk orang 
> > >sekampung
> > >li
> > >
> > >amrace69 wrote:
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >>tull kan apa gue bilang
> > >>sekarang dian pratama sudah menunjukkan kemunafikannya, gara2
> > >>memegang Bible katanya...he..he...he...
> > >>
> > >>Org Kristen pegang Bibleno problem...
> > >>Org islam pegang Biblejadi munafik...itu wajar...knp ?
> > >>wong qurannya aja penuh dengan fitnah, diskriminasi dan 
> kemunafikan.
> > >>
> > >>Setelah ketahuan pegangannya Bible salah cetak, skg mengakui 
> dirinya 
> > >>munafikluar...biasa...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, Dian Pratama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>nah itu, akibat memegang bible orang jadi munafik, oleh sebab 
> itu 
> > >>>   
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>bible 
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>cukup didownload disimpan pada sebuah folder, diberi password 
> > >>>   
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>jangan 
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>sampai dibuka dan dibaca anak kecil...bahaya bagi tumbuh 
> kembang 
> > >>>   
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>anak anda.
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Seperti seorang bangsawan inggris yang notebene kristen 
> > >>>   
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > >>mengatakan ," 
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>jauhkan bible dari jangkuan anak-anak, bible berkatagori XXX
> > >>>amrace69 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>   
> > >>>
> > >>>  
> > >>>
> > he..he..he
> > Setelah pamer kedangkalan pengetahuan, sekarang dian pratama 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >>pamer ke
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > MUNAFIKAN. Org ini bilang: "memegang bible saja bagi kami 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >>sebenarnya 
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > sudah perbuatan yang memalukan, apalagi membacanya ,kok buku 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >>mesum 
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > dibawa-bawanajis."
> > 
> > tapi tetap aja Bible dipegang dan dibacahe..he..he...yg 
> salah 
> > cetak lagi
> > 
> > DASAR MUNAFIK !
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, Dian Pratama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >>wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >He he he, memegang bible saja bagi kami sebenarnya sudah 
> > >   
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >>perbuat

[proletar] Daian Pratama mengirim ghost mail itu sudah sejak lama



Dian Pratama ketangkap basah kirim ghost mail kira-kira bulan
Februari tahun 2005 ... 

Tapi berbulan-bulan sebelumnya dia telah mengirim ghostmail
itu... 

Dan sampai sekarang,dipertengahantahun2006,  dia belum mau
mengakui kejahatannnya itu... 

Dengan tenang  saya bilang bahwa  orang ini bukan hanya sekedar
bodoh dandungu, tapi memang jahat... 



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: [islamkristen] IP 202.65.126.XXX to jusfig yang super tolol



   Anda sudah ketangkap basah dian pratama.. 

   Anda mau ketawa kenyataan akan tetap sama: 

   1. posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri beberapa peserta
   mailing list IslamKristen (antara lain wayame dan saya) itu ghost
   mail... 

   2. Yang mengirim itu adalah salah seorang dari anda bertiga atau  
  anda ketiganya bergantian... 

   3. Dan anda bertiga dengan rajinnnya menyebar isi fitnah yang
ada di ghost mail itu.. 

   Agar anda maklumi: anda bertiga adalah manusia nista, tukang tipu
   dan penyebar fitnah... 



On 13 Apr 05, at 2:02, dian pratama wrote:

> HA  HA HA H AH AH HA,
> lumayan ada hiburan lawak...ha ha ha ha ha...kalau otak isinya cuma
> tahi, gak usah komentar deh babi tua HA HA HA HA HA
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anda sudah ketangkap basah dian pratama. 
> 
> Anda pakai 64.110.104.131 dari Bontang atau dari Bandung atau
> dari mana saja kenyataan akan tetap sama: 
> 
> 1. posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri beberapa peserta
> mailing list IslamKristen (antara lain wayame dan saya) itu
> ghost mail... 
> 
> 2. Yang mengirim itu adalah salah seorang dari anda bertiga atau
> anda ketiganya bergantian... 
> 
> 3. Dan anda bertiga dengan rajinnnya menyebar isi fitnah yang
> ada di ghost mail itu.. 
> 
> Agar anda maklumi: anda bertiga adalah manusia nista, tukang
> tipu dan penyebar fitnah... 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> On 13 Apr 05, at 1:37, dian pratama wrote:
> 
> > ini gw pake ip 202.65.126.XXX   milik yogyakarta, beberapa menit
> > yang lalu saya pake 64.110.104.131 ip surabaya, padahal saya
> > sedang di bontang.. itu artinya apa ??? ARTINYA ELO KALAU BODOH
> > GAK USAH KOMENTAR SOAL IP PIG.. MENDINGAN SIAPKAN SAJA PETI MATI
> > ELO.. kasian deh sama elo PIG, 
sudahlah 
> bodoh, kenceng lagi... HA HA HA HA HH AA. belajar dulu dong tentang
> IP, ehh..tapi percuma ding, entar lagi juga elo bakal koit, mana
> sempat belajar...HA HA HA HA
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click
> Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy And
> Change His Life Learn More
> 
> -
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/
>   
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>Service. 
> 
> 
>   
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Pengirim ghost mail..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku




Bagi yang lupa:  

Posting dibawah inilah yang memunginkan saya mengetahui siapa
pengirim ghost mail yagn berisi fitnah itu...  

Disini jelas dikatakan bahwa  

1. postign ini yang isinya adalah fake, artinya ghost mail   

2. kedua dijelaskan proxy server yang dipakai yaitu 
64.110.104.131..  

Maka saya tinggal mencari di box saya siapa sebelumnya yang suka
memakai proxy server ini...  

Keluarlah nama nama kento, dian pratama dan aries wijaya...  

Tapi aries wijaya sudah lama tidak hadir, jadi tinggalkento dan
dian pratama...  

Mereka kemudian berhenti memakai proxy server ini...  

Tapi dengan gaya dan tema yang sama mereka amsih mengirim ghost
mail dengan memakai provider yang telah tidak ada...  


 

On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote: 

seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia 
hina,  penikmat dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin 
binatang,  aku sungguh manusia hina, ibuku aku sodomi hingga meninggal. 

 
 
 P.S.

 I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-
Mailer.com 
 This email is fake. 








 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] seperti pengakuan juspig

Dian Pratama  yang dungu kayak anjing, Islam fanatik, pendusta,
tukagn kibul,  tukang kirim ghost mail dan tukang fitnah buka
bacotbuat menyebar fitnah... 

Manusia bertabiat nista penyembah Allah yang fiktif dan yang
menjadikan tokoh fiktig nabi Muhamad sebagai panutan dan
junjungan... 

On 19 Jun 06, at 22:19, Yesus Boker wrote:

> seperti pengakuannya sendiri dengan tulus lagi khusuk, juspig adalah
> tua renta bau yang berkepribadian ganda. jadi harap maklum dengan
> tingkah tua nya. hari ini bicara A, besok yang A itu diubahnya sendiri
> menjadi B. Maklumlah, alumni Rumah Sakit Jiwa. malah kabarnya jusfiq
> ketua OSIS di RSJ tersebut.
> 
> 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [apakabar] Fiksi " The Da Vinci Code "



Saya lihat diberbagai mailing list ini, yang menganggap Da Vinci
Code itu  "seolah-olah tulisan sejarah" adalah orang Islam
tipikal yang memang dungu-dungu kayak anjing... 

Lagian mereka juga menganggap al-Mushaf itu berisi wahyu
Allah pada hal TIDAK ada buktinya... 

Orang Islam tipikal itu memang rata-rata rada retarded... 


On 19 Jun 2006, at 21:18, JASP wrote:

> 
> 
> " Da Vinci Code " dinyatakan secara jelas sebagai fiksi , yang 
> kemudian mengundang berbagai protes, polemik , bahkan secara bodoh
> menganggap . Jadi sebagaimana tulisan novel
> yang populer menandakan bahwa orang menyukai ceritera yang diramu
> dengan teliti, diramu berdasarkan tempat-tempat terkenal dan
> peristiwa-peristiwa beken. Tetapi yang namanya fiksi tetap harus
> diladeni sebagaimana fiksi dan hakekatnya. Tak perlu memaki-maki Dan
> Brown sang pengarang, tak perlu merasa tersinggung bahwa anggapan Dan
> Brown menghina umat Kristen. Kebesaran jiwa haruslah ditunjukkan bahwa
> " Da Vinci Code " merupakan hasil olahan fiksi yang menarik dan
> memberikan suatu pemikiran : dan tanggapan kebesaran jiwa hendaknya
> ditunjukkan tanpa ketersinggungan : toh itu cuma novel fiksi yang
> cerdas memanfaatkan suatu pemikiran kontroversiil , bukan secara
> sengaja memberikan umpan kepada fanatikus untuk menyerang agama lain
>  prinsipnya  dalam agama, semuanya berdasarkan PERCAYA dan bukan
> analisa ... sebab percaya  yah percaya  nggak usah bantah
> membantah , analisa menganalisa  dasar agama sekali lagi ialah
> kepercayaan .. dan bukan bantah-bantahan ... yang mengerti dan
> meyakini  monggo silahkan meyakini  lho kan percaya ..  
> amien ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUARA PEMBARUAN DAILY
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Fiksi "The Da Vinci Code"
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Basiang
> 
> "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart
> from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of
> demons, speaking lies in hypocricy ..."
> 
> Demikian pesan Rasul Paulus kepada Timotius, bahwa Roh dengan tegas
> mengatakan di waktu-waktu kemudian ada orang yang akan murtad lalu
> mengikuti roh-roh penyesat dan ajaran setan-setan, oleh keadaan
> munafik yang memberitakan dusta (vide-I Timo- tius 4:1-2).
> 
> Setelah membaca novel The Da Vinci Code dari penulis Dan Brown dan
> menyaksikan filmnya yang disadur dari novel tersebut oleh sutradara
> Ron Howard, saya mempunyai kesimpulan yang sama dengan Sdr Jaime Gomes
> (misionaris SVD di Argentina), ternyata dewasa ini masih ada "Yudas
> Iskariot", yang menjual Yesus seperti Yudas seharga "tiga puluh keping
> perak" kepada imam-imam kepala di Sanhendrin.
> 
> Dan Brawn dan Ron Howard melalui perusahaan Sony Columbia, meraup
> jutaan bahkan mungkin miliaran dolar dengan menjual Yesus yang dikemas
> dalam suatu cerita fiksi yang diklaim didukung fakta historis.
> Ternyata diramu dengan cara licik dan menyesatkan menggabungkan fakta
> dan fiksi (A seductively clover mix of fact and fiction).
> 
> " Holy Grail"
> 
> Menurut versi Dan Brown, yang disebut "Holy Grail" atau cawan minuman
> yang dipakai Yesus dalam Perjamuan Malam (Last Supper) sebelum
> disalibkan, adalah "sebetulnya" bukan cawan yang digunakan dalam
> perjamuan tersebut, tetapi "Holy Grail" adalah oknum Maria Magdalena
> yang menyandang garis keturunan Yesus dengan melahirkan anak.
> 
> Dan yang lebih parah lagi Brown mendasarkan kesimpulannya dari 
> Dokumen Gnostic yang ditolak gereja karena dianggap ajaran sesat dari
> abad kedua, bahwa Yesus tidak hanya mengambil Maria Magdalena sebagai
> istrinya tetapi juga direncanakan untuk menugaskannya sebagai "penemu"
> dari gerejaNya (planned her the founder of His Church-hal. 254).
> 
> Alkitab dalam Perjanjian Baru yang ditulis atau diilhamkan ke- pada
> para saksi mata yaitu keempat penulis Injil menyangkut "cawan minuman"
> dan "Maria Magdalena", sangat bertentangan dengan kon- sep Brown dalam
> novel fiksinya tersebut.
> 
> Dalam Penetapan Perjamuan Malam yang tersebut dalam Injil Matius 26
> :27-28 disebutkan:
> 
> "Sesudah itu Ia (Yesus) mengambil cawan, mengucapkan syukur lalu
> memberikannya kepada mereka dan berkata: "Minumlah, kamu semua, dari
> cawan ini. Sebab inilah darahKu, darah perjanjian, yang ditumpahkan
> bagi banyak orang untuk pengampunan dosa ."
> 
> Injil Markus dan Lukas menulis hal yang sama, dimana Yesus 
> melambangkan anggur sebagai darahNya yang akan tercurah disalib untuk
> pengampunan dosa dan roti sebagai lambang tubuh Kristus yang
> diserahkan dalam kematianNya sebagai Korban Penebus dosa.
> 
> Sedang rasul Yohanes, yang selalu menyebut dirinya "murid yang 
> dikasihiNya" (the disciple whom He loved) dalam Perjamuan terakhir,
> (The Last Supper) duduk dekat Yesus, dalam Karya Leonardo Da Vinci di
> tafsirkan bahwa itu bukan Yohanes tetapi Maria Magdalena.
> 
> Yang Dikasihi
> 
> Bukan hanya dalam peristiwa "The Last Supper", Yohanes menyebut 
> dirinya "murid yang di-Kasihi Yesus"

Re: [proletar] Lagi: 'Kemunduran Evolusi'

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik Suryana

kecoak usia nya sudah jutaan tahun, evolusi nyapelan banget yah..
evolusi tidak berjalan mundur, akan selalu maju, ada yang pesat ada yang
perlahan, dan yang pesat bisa-bisa balik ke asal.( jadi ingat
RUUAPP, telanjang -> pakaian-> pakain minim-> .aku ngalam-in gak
yah )
- Original Message -
From: "Xyzman Irysaad Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Saya coba menanggapi kembali tentang 'evolusi mundur' ini dengan agak
lebih
> saintifik ;) Mohon maaf kalau tidak begitu saintifik karena saya bukanlah
> ahli biologi.
>
> Saya kira, memang tidak dikenal apa yang namanya 'kemunduran evolusi' itu.
> Sebab evolusi bukanlah sebuah gerak searah seperti lomba lari, namun
proses
> adaptasi makhluk hidup terhadap lingkungannya yang berubah sehingga mereka
> mampu bertahan.
>
> Yang tidak mampu beradaptasi akan mati dan musnah, sedangkan yang mampu
> melewati ujian evolusi ini tetap eksis.
>
> Kita lihat contoh sebuah 'ikan' paus. Paus bukanlah sebuah ikan yang
> sebenarnya, namun hewan mamalia yang suatu waktu pernah hidup di darat,
> namun kemudian beradaptasi untuk hidup di air dan perlahan-lahan kakinya
> berubah menjadi 'sirip' hingga iapun dicap sebagai ikan.
>
> Karena nenek moyang makhluk hidup dulu hanya pernah hidup di air dan belum
> bisa hidup di darat, maka setelah sukses hidup di darat lalu kembali ke
air,
> dapatkah evolusi Paus kita katakan telah mundur? Mungkin tidak juga. Ia
> hanya menyesuaikan diri dengan keadaan yang bisa membuat hidupnya lebih
> baik. Pasti karena suatu sebab, paus memilih hidup di air (kembali) karena
> itu lebih baik baginya.
>
> Jika memiliki geraham dan gigi taring yang kuat untuk menyobek daging
mangsa
> dianggap sebuah kemajuan, maka gigi taring dan geraham yang dimiliki
manusia
> dewasa ini tentulah dianggap sebuah 'kemunduran'. Gigi manusia adalah gigi
> paling payah dibandingkan dengan mamalia pemakan daging lainnya.
>
> Namun manusia memiliki alat yang membantunya 'mengunyah' daging mangsanya
> dengan lebih baik; kita memiliki mesin-mesin pengolah daging sehingga gigi
> geligi kita tidak perlu bekerja keras. Dan ia telah menjadi tumpul, ketika
> mesin-mesin kita semakin tajam.
>
> Yang saya cemaskan ketika melontarkan threat tentang 'kemunduran evolusi'
> sebenarnya adalah 'kemunduran peradaban' dan kepintaran makhluk hidup.
Akan
> tragis sekali jika manusia yang telah mencapai level peradaban dan
> kepintaran tertentu akan musnah karena bencana alam atau bencana yang
diseba
> bkan oleh umat manusia sendiri.
>
> Kita bisa memahami kepunahan dinosaurus, namun adakah nanti yang bisa
> memahami kepunahan manusia?
>
> Wallahu A'lam bissawab... Begitulah rekan-rekan muslim sering berucap.
>
> Semoga kita bisa terhindar dari hal yang demikian!
>
> Regards,
> Xyzman Adam
> ateis@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ateis




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] FAQ Seputar Gempa Yogyakarta

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik Xyzman Irysaad Adam


Dear All;

Saya ingin berbagi fakta seputar gempa yang terjadi di Yogyakarta Mei lalu, 
karena saya sendiri berada di Yogya waktu itu. Rumah keluarga kami rusak parah, 
meskipun tidak ada di antara kami yang jadi korban. Dibandingkan dengan 
keluarga-keluarga lain, kami masih tergolong beruntung...

Saya sendiri masih merasakan trauma akibat gempa tersebut, dan oleh karena itu 
saya bisa memahami bagaimana trauma dan ketakutan penduduk Yogyakarta maupun 
Aceh pasca gempa tersebut.

Pernah saya terhambur dari kursi di kantor, karena ada seorang rekan yang 
menyenggol kursi saya sehingga secara reflek saya langsung terlompat hendak 
keluar ruangan karena saya kira terjadi gempa.

Satu saat pernah kaget karena detak jantung saya sendiri saya saya anggap 
seolah-olah gempa. Trauma ini kadang begitu menghantui, hingga kita jadi takut 
berada di dalam ruangan untuk waktu yang lama. Takut untuk tidur terlalu 
nyenyak...

Saat ini warga wilayah Bantul masih hidup di tenda-tenda. Semoga bantuan untuk 
membangun rumah kembali segera dapat disalurkan sehingga saudara-saudara kita 
tersebut tidak perlu hidup di bawah tenda untuk waktu yang lama.

Regards,
Xyzman Adam
ateis@yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ateis



TANYA JAWAB GEMPA 27 MEI 2006
DI YOGYAKARTA - JATENG
OLEH : IAGI (IKATAN AHLI GEOLOGI INDONESIA) DIY / JATENG LSM HARINDJING LESTARI 
AMC 
ADVENTURERS & MOUNTAIN CLIMBERS) MALANG - JAKARTA
PERHIMAGI - YOGYAKARTA


No Telpon yang bisa dihubungi untuk Pertanyaan Gempa :
1. IAGI (Ikatan Ahli Geologi Indonesia) DIY - JATENG
* DR. Ir. Sari Bahagiarti MSc (08122782595)
* DR. Ir. Dwikorita Karnawati MSc (0811286756)
* Agus Hendratno, ST. MT (08156868523)
* Hill Gendoet Hartono, ST. MT (08164222011) 2. Pusat Kajian Bencana & 
Sosialisasi IPTEK HARINDJING LESTARI AMC, Malang - Jakarta
* Ir. Agoes K. Tirtohardjo, BSc, MT (085234599669)
* DR. Ir. Andang Bachtiar, MSc (0816743904) 3. PERHIMAGI YOGYAKARTA 
(Persatuan Himpunan Mahasiswa Geologi Indonesia)
* Adeni (081332052852)
* Purnama (081578771832)
* Farid (085228365150)

1. APA PENYEBAB GEMPA 27 MEI 2006 ?

a. Gerakan Blok Sesar / Patahan yang dipicu oleh zona penunjaman LEMPENG 
TEKTONIK Di Laut Selatan Yogyakarta,lokasi sumber gempa 37 KM Di Selatan 
kota Yogyakarta pada kedalaman 33 km.

b. Getaran/gelombang gempa akibat Patahan merambat kesegala arah, yang ke 
Yogyakarta ketika mengenai PATAHAN OPAK yang memanjang dari Kretek sampai 
Prambanan menyebabkan bencana yang lebih besar karena batuan yang pernah 
patah dimasa lalu masih bersifat labil.

c. Dampak Bencana Pasti Lebih Besar Di KIRI-KANAN Zona Sesar Opak yaitu 
daerah : KRETEK, BAMBANG LIPURO, JETIS, IMOGIRI, PIYUNGAN, BERBAH, KALASAN, 
PRAMBANAN, kemudian merambat ke Sesar Jiwo sehingga daerah yang parah di 
Klaten adalah kecamatan : WEDI , GANTIWARNO, BAYAT dan CAWAS .


2. MENGAPA DI YOGYAKARTA ?

a. Posisi Yogyakarta dan Seluruh Pantai Selatan Jawa adalah Pertemuan LEMPENG 
INDO-AUSTRALIA dengan EURASIA, Jadi termasuk DAERAH RAWAN GEMPA.

b. Dari Ujung Kulon Jawa Barat Sampai Banyuwangi, Kabupaten-Kabupaten yang 
berada di bagian Selatan Pulau Jawa termasuk DAERAH RAWAN GEMPA .

c. Tahun 2004-2005 Di ACEH, NIAS, MAUMERE.

d. Tahun 2006 Giliran YOGYAKARTA , PADANG, MAUMERE.

e. Untuk daerah SULAWESI, MALUKU, IRIAN, tumbukan LEMPENG TEKTONIK terjadi 
antara LEMPENG PASIFIK dengan EURASIA dan INDO-AUSTRALIA.


3. KAPAN TERJADI GEMPA ?

a. Bila BLOK BATUAN yang satu menekan BLOK BATUAN LAIN lalu timbul tegangan, 
kalau batas elastisitas batuan dilampaui terjadi PATAHAN BATUAN, GETARAN 
akibat PATAHAN itulah yang disebut GEMPA.

b. Kelas GEMPA : - < 5 skala Richter : Kecil
- 5 - 6.4 skala Richter : Sedang
- > 6.4 skala Richter : Besar
- > 7.4 skala Richter : Sangat Besar

c. GEMPA dapat dimonitor oleh alat SEISMOGRAF, dll. Monitoring awal 
kecendrungan GEMPA butuh waktu 1 menit, kepastian analisa selanjutnya butuh 
waktu 1 menit. Setelah itu dalam waktu ½ menit terjadi GEMPA.

JADI : BELUM CUKUP WAKTU UNTUK PERINGATAN DINI PADA MASYARAKAT, SUDAH 
TERJADI GEMPA.

4. SIAPA YANG DAPAT MERAMAL GEMPA ?

a. TIDAK SEORANGPUN DAPAT MERAMALKAN HARI APA DAN JAM BERAPA AKAN TERJADI 
GEMPA.

b. ILMU SEISMOLOGI & GEOLOGI DI JEPANG Sangat HEBAT tapi sampai sekarang 
belum mampu MERAMALKAN GEMPA.

c. Pernyataan dari PARANORMAL, METAFISIKA, DUKUN, dan "Orang Pinter" TIDAK 
PERNAH TERBUKTI KEBENARANNYA !!!

d. GEMPA adalah Wilayah Ilmu Pengetahuan & Teknologi bukan haknya seorang 
PARANORMAL bicara gempa, JANGAN DIPERCAYA!!


5. APAKAH AKAN TERJADI GEMPA YANG LEBIH BESAR DI YOGYAKARTA ?

a. Di sekitar Yogyakarta dalam radius 100 Km TIDAK AKAN TERJADI LAGI GEMPA 
SUSULAN YANG LEBIH BESAR.

b. Tegangan utama Penyebab GEMPA 27 Mei mempunyai energi / tenaga yang 
terbesar, sisa tenaga pada LEMPENG TEKTONIK sekarang energinya lebih kecil, 
jadi GEMPA SUSULAN tetap akan terjadi dalam 1 - 1 ½ bulan ke depan tapi 
kekuatannya Lebih Kecil ( < 5 skala Richter).

6. DIMANA POTENSI TERJADI GEMPA SETELAH YOGYAKARTA ?

a. D

[proletar] Re: Fwd: Asian Highway network gathers speed

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik Suryana

Bakalan bisa di lihat lagi dari bulan dah, seudah great wall, three
google.uideannn emang..

sur.
- Original Message -
From: Ambon


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Asian_Economy/HF14Dk01.html


Asian Highway network gathers speed
By Raja M


MUMBAI - More pieces of the ambitious 141,204-kilometer Asian Highway
network slotted into place this month as Vietnam completed its section
linking Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Myanmar. Do Ngoc Dung, vice director
general of the My Thuan Project Management Unit (PMU), announced completion
of the work. The US$144.77 million construction bill was partly financed by
the Asian Development Bank.

The $44 billion Asian Highway network weaves through 32 countries, connects
Asia with Europe, and promises to boost regional economies by facilitating
trade and tourism through its linkage of Asian seaports, airports and major
tourist destinations. It also fleshes out dreams of a Pan-Asian community
with a common socio-political-economic identity analogous to the European
Union.



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Lagi: 'Kemunduran Evolusi'

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik Xyzman Irysaad Adam

Saya coba menanggapi kembali tentang 'evolusi mundur' ini dengan agak lebih
saintifik ;) Mohon maaf kalau tidak begitu saintifik karena saya bukanlah
ahli biologi.

Saya kira, memang tidak dikenal apa yang namanya 'kemunduran evolusi' itu.
Sebab evolusi bukanlah sebuah gerak searah seperti lomba lari, namun proses
adaptasi makhluk hidup terhadap lingkungannya yang berubah sehingga mereka
mampu bertahan.

Yang tidak mampu beradaptasi akan mati dan musnah, sedangkan yang mampu
melewati ujian evolusi ini tetap eksis.

Kita lihat contoh sebuah 'ikan' paus. Paus bukanlah sebuah ikan yang
sebenarnya, namun hewan mamalia yang suatu waktu pernah hidup di darat,
namun kemudian beradaptasi untuk hidup di air dan perlahan-lahan kakinya
berubah menjadi 'sirip' hingga iapun dicap sebagai ikan.

Karena nenek moyang makhluk hidup dulu hanya pernah hidup di air dan belum
bisa hidup di darat, maka setelah sukses hidup di darat lalu kembali ke air,
dapatkah evolusi Paus kita katakan telah mundur? Mungkin tidak juga. Ia
hanya menyesuaikan diri dengan keadaan yang bisa membuat hidupnya lebih
baik. Pasti karena suatu sebab, paus memilih hidup di air (kembali) karena
itu lebih baik baginya.

Jika memiliki geraham dan gigi taring yang kuat untuk menyobek daging mangsa
dianggap sebuah kemajuan, maka gigi taring dan geraham yang dimiliki manusia
dewasa ini tentulah dianggap sebuah 'kemunduran'. Gigi manusia adalah gigi
paling payah dibandingkan dengan mamalia pemakan daging lainnya.

Namun manusia memiliki alat yang membantunya 'mengunyah' daging mangsanya
dengan lebih baik; kita memiliki mesin-mesin pengolah daging sehingga gigi
geligi kita tidak perlu bekerja keras. Dan ia telah menjadi tumpul, ketika
mesin-mesin kita semakin tajam.

Yang saya cemaskan ketika melontarkan threat tentang 'kemunduran evolusi'
sebenarnya adalah 'kemunduran peradaban' dan kepintaran makhluk hidup. Akan
tragis sekali jika manusia yang telah mencapai level peradaban dan
kepintaran tertentu akan musnah karena bencana alam atau bencana yang diseba
bkan oleh umat manusia sendiri.

Kita bisa memahami kepunahan dinosaurus, namun adakah nanti yang bisa
memahami kepunahan manusia?

Wallahu A'lam bissawab... Begitulah rekan-rekan muslim sering berucap.

Semoga kita bisa terhindar dari hal yang demikian!

Regards,
Xyzman Adam
ateis@yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ateis

__
Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
Lelah menerima spam?  Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap spam  
http://id.mail.yahoo.com 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Orang Islam tipikal pada ribut-ribut tentang ajaran Nasrni, tentang Bible, tenteng Yesus....



Orang Islam tipikal yang dungu-dungu kayak anjing, penyembah
Allah fiktif dan yang telah menjadikan tokoh fiktif Nabi
Muhammad sebagai panutan dan junjungan ribut-ribut soal ayat-ayat
Bible, Trinitas, Yesus dll. 

Perbuatan sia-sia karena orang Nasrani sendiri yang banyak yang
pintar-pintar  telah lama dan masih terus menukikkan pandangan
kritis terhadap semua itu... 

Kritik terhadap ayat-ayat Bible, terhadap Trinitas, terhadap
Yesus telah lama mereka lontarkan dan bukan barang aneh buat
mereka. 

Mereka telah biasa berbukak kulit tampak isi... 

Jadi sungguh adalah sia-sia buat orang Islam untuk ikut-ikut
menyampaikan kritik terhadap ayat-ayat Bible, Trintias atau
Yesus itu... 

Yang kudu dilakukan orang Islam adalah untuk untuk bergegas juga
menukikkan pandangan kritis terhadap ajaran Islam, terhadap
sumber ajaran Islam, yaitu al-Mushaf, hadits dan sirah nabi... 



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] thaghut yang dungu males...Re: [islamkristen] Re: DISKUSI YG SANGAT MENARIK - AMIN VS AMRACE - umat kristen tak akan di akui


thaghut yang dungu kayak anjing ini antara lain menulis " Terus
terang saya capek untuk meneruskannya...  " 

Ya sudah... 

Urusan orang Nasrani yang sudah lama dan terus diurus dengan baik
oleh orang Nasrani yang banyak yang pinter-pinter itu kok
ikut-ikut diurus oleh manusia bermantal anjing ini... ... 

Serahkan sajalah kepada orang Nasrani yang telah lama menukikkan
padangan kritis terhadap ajaran agama mereka 

Dan pemahaman ajaran Nasrani itu juga - karena itu - terus saja
makin cerdas dan makin manusiawi... 

Yang kudu diurus oleh orang Islam itu adalah ajaran agamanya
sendiri yang begitu absurd dan buas, ganas, kejam keji lagi
biadab... 

Orang Islam tipikal itu seyogiyanya belajar dari orang Nasrani
bagaimana caranya berdiskusi, bagaimana cara bersikap kritis,
bagaimana caranya berbuat jujur kepada diri sendiri... 

Menghormati freedom of speech... 

Menghormati freedom of opinion... 

Memisahkan urusan agama dari urusan negara... 

Dan seribu satu kemajuan yang telah dicapai oleh orang Nasrani
sejak Reformasi. 


On 19 Jun 06, at 13:13, thaghut wrote:

> wakakakakaka
> 
> siapa yg gugur???, justru anda yg muter2 kayak gasing nggak jelas
> 
> Tantangan saya waktu di diskusi itu sama sekali belum anda jawab... 
> 
> saya malas meneruskannya kalau anda hanya muter2 gak jelas.
> 
> Anda lupa pada diskusi waktu itu yang terjadi bukannya menyelesaikan
> persoalan malah justru terjadi kontradiksi dalam bible anda sendiri...
> 
> Anda juga lupa kitab2 injil yg juga telah tercemar ajaran paulus yang
> tercampur dengan ajaran pagan yunani. Serta ayat2 palsu yg kemungkinan
> tersusup dalam bible.. itu sama sekali tidak anda gubris.. anda malah
> lari muter2 gak jelas kayak gasing...
> 
> Terus terang saya capek untuk meneruskannya...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: amrace69 
>   To: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:59 AM
>   Subject: [islamkristen] Re: DISKUSI YG SANGAT MENARIK - AMIN VS
>   AMRACE - umat kristen tak akan di akui yesus di akhirat nanti
> 
> 
> 
>   BUng "thaghut", bukankah semua argumen anda mengenai ini telah gugur
>   ? Kenapa anda masih mengungkit-ungkit argumen yg sudah gugur itu ?
> 
>   Anda katakan bahwa Kristen sekarang adalah ajaran Paulus, mis :
> 
>   Menuhankan Yesus, ternyata Yohanes, Petrus dan Para Rasul
>   mengajarkan demikian juga, dan klaim andapun gugur.
> 
>   Mengenai hukum Taurat, anda sendiri tidak tau apa itu hukum Taurat,
>   dan begitu ditanya apakah islam memakai hukum Taurat  juga atau
>   tidaksemua peserta islam disini pada diam seribu bahasa.
> 
>   Dosa waris, terbukti bahwa ajaran dosa waris bukan hanya ajaran
>   Paulus semata, tetapi adalah ajaran Yesus yang disampaikan melalui
>   para rasul
> 
>   Semua klaim2 anda sudah GUGUR.
> 
>   Jadi percuma saja anda berteriak-teriak seperti dibawah
>   ini..bersikap gentle lahseperti halnya sewaktu anda mengakui
>   kesalahan anda dalam nyayian2 dalam ibadah Gereja.so... be a
>   gentlementok
> 
>   THINK !
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, "thaghut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   > > hehehehe... > > si amrace mengaku2 mengikuti kehendak bapa
>   berdasarkan mat 7:21 padahal sebenernya dia itu mengikuti
>   kehendaknya paulus. Si AMrace mengaku kalo dia sekarang udah
>   terlepas dari hukum taurat & bebas dosa berdasarkan ajaran nya
>   paulus. Ini saya tunjukkan ayat2nya si paulus yang bertentangan
>   sekali dengan ajarannya yesus. > [roma 5:13] Sebab sebelum hukum
>   Taurat ada, telah ada dosa di dunia. Tetapi dosa itu tidak
>   diperhitungkan kalau tidak ada hukum Taurat. > > [kisah para rasul
>   13:38-39] Jadi ketahuilah, hai saudara-saudara, oleh karena Dialah
>   maka diberitakan kepada kamu pengampunan dosa. Dan di dalam Dialah
>   setiap orang yang percaya memperoleh pembebasan dari segala dosa,
>   yang tidak dapat kamu peroleh dari hukum Musa. > > [roma 2:12] Sebab
>   semua orang yang berdosa tanpa hukum Taurat akan binasa tanpa hukum
>   Taurat; dan semua orang yang berdosa di bawah hukum Taurat akan
>   dihakimi oleh hukum Taurat. > > [roma 6:14-15] Sebab kamu tidak akan
>   dikuasai lagi oleh dosa, karena kamu tidak berada di bawah hukum
>   Taurat, tetapi di bawah kasih karunia. Jadi bagaimana? Apakah kita
>   akan berbuat dosa, karena kita tidak berada di bawah hukum Taurat,
>   tetapi di bawah kasih karunia? Sekali-kali tidak! > > [I
>   Korintus15:56] Sengat maut ialah dosa dan kuasa dosa ialah hukum
>   Taurat. Tetapi syukur kepada Allah, yang telah memberikan kepada
>   kita kemenangan oleh Yesus Kristus, Tuhan kita. > > PADAHAL YESUS
>   SENDIRI BILANG DIA TIDAK AKAN MENIADAKAN HUKUM TAURAT > > [Mat
>   5:18-19] Karena Aku berkata kepadamu: Sesungguhnya selama belum
>   lenyap langit dan bumi ini, satu iota atau satu titikpun tidak akan
>   ditiadakan dari hukum Taurat, sebelum semuanya terjadi. Karena i

[proletar] Reposting: Pengirim ghost mail..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku


Bagi yang lupa:  

Posting dibawah inilah yang memunginkan saya mengetahui siapa
pengirim ghost mail yagn berisi fitnah itu...  

Disini jelas dikatakan bahwa  

1. postign ini yang isinya adalah fake, artinya ghost mail   

2. kedua dijelaskan proxy server yang dipakai yaitu 
64.110.104.131..  

Maka saya tinggal mencari di box saya siapa sebelumnya yang suka
memakai proxy server ini...  

Keluarlah nama nama kento, dian pratama dan aries wijaya...  

Tapi aries wijaya sudah lama tidak hadir, jadi tinggalkento dan
dian pratama...  

Mereka kemudian berhenti memakai proxy server ini...  

Tapi dengan gaya dan tema yang sama mereka amsih mengirim ghost
mail dengan memakai provider yang telah tidak ada...  


 

On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote: 

seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia 
hina,  penikmat dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin 
binatang,  aku sungguh manusia hina, ibuku aku sodomi 
hingga meninggal. 

 
 
 P.S.

 I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com  This email 
is fake. 







 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Siapa pengirim ghost mail itu..(was Re: [islamkristen] pengakuanku


Bagi yang tidak sempat melihat posting dibawah yang dikirim
bulan Februari yang lalu...   

Perhatikan kalimat:   

---

P.S.   

I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com  
This email is fake.   

-  

Jadi jelas buat siapapun juga: posting itu adalah ghost mail.   

Dan saya cari pakai fasilitas 'search' dengan memakai IP  
64.110.104.131...   

Dan nama siapa yang muncul?   

dian pratama, kento dan aries wijaya.   

Sungguh jelas, siapa yang mengirim ghost mail itu.   


=  


On 3 Feb 05, at 7:16, Jusfiq Hadjar wrote:  

seperti yang dikatakan dian pratama, aku adalah manusia hina, penikmat 
dubur ibuku sendiri, dan penggemar kelamin binatang, aku sungguh 
manusia hina,  ibuku aku  sodomi hingga meninggal. 
  
  
  P.S.
  I, 64.110.104.131, sent you this email using www.Fake-Mailer.com This 
email is fake. 
   




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] IP 202.65.126.XXX to jusfig yang super tolol


   Anda sudah ketangkap basah dian pratama.. 

   Anda mau ketawa kenyataan akan tetap sama: 

   1. posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri beberapa peserta
   mailing list IslamKristen (antara lain wayame dan saya) itu ghost
   mail... 

   2. Yang mengirim itu adalah salah seorang dari anda bertiga atau  
  anda ketiganya bergantian... 

   3. Dan anda bertiga dengan rajinnnya menyebar isi fitnah yang
ada di ghost mail itu.. 

   Agar anda maklumi: anda bertiga adalah manusia nista, tukang tipu
   dan penyebar fitnah... 



On 13 Apr 05, at 2:02, dian pratama wrote:

> HA  HA HA H AH AH HA,
> lumayan ada hiburan lawak...ha ha ha ha ha...kalau otak isinya cuma
> tahi, gak usah komentar deh babi tua HA HA HA HA HA
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anda sudah ketangkap basah dian pratama. 
> 
> Anda pakai 64.110.104.131 dari Bontang atau dari Bandung atau
> dari mana saja kenyataan akan tetap sama: 
> 
> 1. posting yang berisi fitnah tentang diri beberapa peserta
> mailing list IslamKristen (antara lain wayame dan saya) itu
> ghost mail... 
> 
> 2. Yang mengirim itu adalah salah seorang dari anda bertiga atau
> anda ketiganya bergantian... 
> 
> 3. Dan anda bertiga dengan rajinnnya menyebar isi fitnah yang
> ada di ghost mail itu.. 
> 
> Agar anda maklumi: anda bertiga adalah manusia nista, tukang
> tipu dan penyebar fitnah... 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> On 13 Apr 05, at 1:37, dian pratama wrote:
> 
> > ini gw pake ip 202.65.126.XXX   milik yogyakarta, beberapa menit
> > yang lalu saya pake 64.110.104.131 ip surabaya, padahal saya
> > sedang di bontang.. itu artinya apa ??? ARTINYA ELO KALAU BODOH
> > GAK USAH KOMENTAR SOAL IP PIG.. MENDINGAN SIAPKAN SAJA PETI MATI
> > ELO.. kasian deh sama elo PIG, 
sudahlah 
> bodoh, kenceng lagi... HA HA HA HA HH AA. belajar dulu dong tentang
> IP, ehh..tapi percuma ding, entar lagi juga elo bakal koit, mana
> sempat belajar...HA HA HA HA
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Children InternationalWould you give Hope to a Child in need? ·Click
> Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope·Click Here to meet a Boy And
> Change His Life Learn More
> 
> -
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/
>   
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>Service. 
> 
> 
>   
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] [EMAIL PROTECTED] tukangkibul...Re: [islamkristen] Reposting: Hadits itu MUSTAHIL ada yagn sahih...

On 19 Jun 06, at 16:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Duh, anda ini tolol ngk ketulungan...
> al-Hadits (as-Sunnah) yang shahih dan al-Qur'an adalah sama-sama
> wahyu. 

Ngibul... 

Dan saya ulang: 

Tidak ada bukti al-Mushaf itu berisi wahyu Allah. 

Dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih...

Anda adalah tukang tipu. 

Anda adalah tukang kibul.. 

> mustahil ada pertentangan didalammnya : Namun, jika yang
> meriwayatkan hadits orangnya seperti anda bukan lagi hadits shohih
> tapi hadits palsu (hadits dajjal). Anda belajar dulu ilmu hadits
> pak..baru kembali lagi dengan topik yang sama. Ok!
> 
> Didalam hadits itu ada periwayatnya yang disandarkan pada sanad (jalur
> pengambilan hadits) kalau ada sanad yang ganjil/cacat misal yang
> meriwayatkan itu pembohong yang bukan lagi hadits shahih namanya. dan,
> sanad adalah bagian dari agama. kalau bukan karena sanad, niscaya
> setiap orang akan bicara sesuka hatinya.
>

Saya ulang: 

A (Bukhari, Muslim dll.) katanya mencatat omongan B yang nguping
dari C yang denger dari D yang diceritain E dst. dst. yang hidup
lebih dari seratus tahun yang lalu... 

Ya MUSTAHIL lah yaauw ada hadits itu yang sahih... 

MUSTAHIL ada cerita yang sampai dari mulut ke mulut selama lebih
dari se abad itu masih bisa sahih... 

Dan yang terpenting, TIDAK ada bukti bahwa A memang mencatat   
omongan B,  bahwa B memang pernah nguping dari C, bahwa C pernah
denger dari D dan bahwa D pernah diceritain oleh E... 

 Semua itu hanyalah omongan tanpa bukti... 

> Sungguh nikmat menggunakan hadits yang shahih dan al-Qur'an.
> karena tidak mungkin berubah hingga akhir zaman.
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jusfiq Hadjar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:25 PM
> Subject: [islamkristen] Reposting: Hadits itu MUSTAHIL ada yagn
> sahih...
> 
> 
> |
> |
> | A (Bukhari, Muslim dll.) katanya mencatat omongan B yang nguping
> | dari C yang denger dari D yang diceritain E dst. dst. yang hidup
> | lebih dari seratus tahun yang lalu... | | Ya MUSTAHIL lah
> yaauw ada hadits itu yang sahih... | | MUSTAHIL ada cerita yang
> sampai dari mulut ke mulut selama lebih | dari se abad itu masih
> bisa sahih... | | Dan yang terpenting, TIDAK ada bukti bahwa A
> memang mencatat | omongan B,  bahwa B memang pernah nguping dari
> C, bahwa C pernah | denger dari D dan bahwa D pernah diceritain
> oleh E... | | Semua itu hanyalah omongan tanpa bukti... | | | | |
> | == | | Jusfiq Hadjar gelar Sutan
> Maradjo Lelo | ... | | Orang Islam
> tipikal kudu sadar bahwa al-Mushaf itu TIDAK berbukti | berisi wahyu
> Allah dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih | | | | Yahoo! Groups
> Links | | | | | | | | | | | __ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617)
> Information __ | | This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus
> system. | http://www.eset.com | |
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] Re: bagi yg belum tau..

On 19 Jun 06, at 10:06, justjoiningthetribes wrote:

> Ngibul?
> 

justjoiningthetribes yang adalah manusia débil profond dan
tukang kibul... 

Manusia bermental bangsat... 


> Saya justeru ragu kalau Marlene Van Doorn telah mengibuli saya
> 
> Tapi apakah saya bisa minta anda menjelaskan mengapa di link ini
> dinyatakan bahwa itu Muslim NGO?
> 
> http://www.hvk.org/articles/1102/118.html
>

Urusan sumber anda dan bukan urusan saya... 

 
> Dan masalah anda ngaku2 pernah jadi anggota pengurus dan sering
> mewakili NGO di Komisi dan Sub-Komisi HAM PBB saya anggap cuma kibulan
> belaka sepanjang tidak ada bukti.
> 
> Kemampuan anda tidak memadai untuk bisa menjadi orang yang
> diperhitungkan dengan mewakili NGO di PBB.
>

Karena justjoiningthetribes penipu dan bermengtal bangsat... 

Tidak terlalu susah untuk mencari dokumen PBB di internet dimana
tertera nama saya sebagai wakil organisasi itun ngomong... 

Lagian pemerhati dunia pernah menyampaikannnya disini. 

Atau bertanya langsung ke Jenewa sono... 

justjoiningthetribes ini disamping tukang tipu adalah manusi
bermental dengki. 

Sebagaimana layaknya orang Islam tipikal. 
 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In islamkristen@yahoogroups.com, "Jusfiq Hadjar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ngibul.
> 
> Movement against Racism and for Friendship among Peoples
> (dalam bahasa Perancis Mouvement contre le Racisme et pour l'Amitié
> entre les Peuples) adalah organisasi Perancis.
> 
> Saya pernah jadi anggota pengurusnya dulu dan sering mewakilinya
> di Komisi dan Sub-Komisi HAM PBB...
> 
> 
> On 19 Jun 06, at 15:55, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:
> 
> > From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> > JustJoiningTheTribe Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:02 PM To:
> > islamkristen@yahoogroups.com Subject: ARSIP JUSPIG HADJAR Xanana
> > mulai mengemis ke Indonesia
> >
> >
> > Brief CV of Jusfiq Hadjar
> >
> >
> >
> > Jusfiq Hadjar, 66 years old, is an Indonesian living in the
> > Netherlands. He currently lives together out of wed-lock with
> > Marlene Van Doorn - a documentalist in African Studies Center (ASC)
> > library - in Leiden.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jusfiq Hadjar has, thus far, succesfully deceived many NGOs into
> > believing that he is a human rights activistist. One of the NGOs
> > that has been trapped in his lies is a Muslim human rights group,
> > the Movement against Racism and for Friendship among Peoples.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jusfiq Hadjar is very active in his campaigns against Islam and
> > Muslims on the Internet, especially in several Indonesian mailing
> > lists. He will spread massive amounts of offensive, slanderous,
> > lying statements against Islam and Muslims day in and day out and at
> > the same time claiming that he is a Muslim.
> >
> >
> >
> > Undoubtedly, Jusfiq Hadjar is one of those people who still thinks
> > that adhering to a daily routine of cursing and swearing on the
> > Internet would help to make him look intelligent and preserve his
> > sanity. It shoots no wonder then if you find mosts of his writings
> > on the Internet are just about cursing and swearing at Muslims and
> > licking the ass of his christian friends.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jusfiq Hadjar has joined several mailing lists in order to spread
> > his severe hatred against Islam and Muslim on the Internet:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apakabar/
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minangnet/
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/istiqlal/
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/partai-keadilan/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Bayi yang baru lahir sudah membawa dosa turunan

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik JustJoiningTheTribe

*Baptism, Original Sin & Little Children*

*Is to conceive a sin?*

*Hugh Fogelman*





In 418 CE, a Catholic Church council decided that every human child is born
demonic as a result of its sexual conception, because the baby inherits the
sins of their parents―thus automatically damned unless baptized. During a
Catholic baptismal ceremony, the priest, today, still addresses the baby,

*I exorcise thee, thou unclean spirit…Hear thy doom, 0 Devil accursed, Satan
accursed.*

This *"exorcism"* is euphemistically described as *"a means to remove
impediments to grace resulting from the effects of original sin and the
power of Satan over nature…"* But the church still had a problem; some
babies died before they could be baptized. So, to explain God's apparent
cruelty in allowing infants to die unbaptized, condemning them before they
had a chance for salvation, the church came up with this explanation:

*If, as is not uncommon, God permits children to be killed before they have
been baptized, it is to prevent their committing in later life those sins
which would make their damnation more severe. In this, God is neither cruel
nor unjust, since, by the mere fact of original sin, the children have
already merited death...** **Women's Encyclopedia of Myth, *Barbara G.
Walker, Editor

Therefore, supposedly, for the child to be conceived, the mother and father
"must perform a sin."

*Standing in stark contrast*, the Torah, given by God to all mankind,
commands us to have children. God tells us to "procreate." *It is a
Commandment*, a mitzvah, in the Torah *to have children*. Therefore, *to
conceive is not a sin. *Logically, if it is a "sin," it certainly would not
be the basis for one of the Commandments of the Torah, the Laws which God
wanted us to live by.

In Judaism, there is no baptism because there is no "original sin." God
tells us in the Torah tells us that one does not suffer for the sins of
their parent. According to the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), the person who sins is
the one who will die. For example, Moses was willing to be blotted out of
the book of life on behalf of Israel but God said, "no way!" *But now,
please forgive their sin--but if not, then blot me out of the book you have
written." The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will
blot out of my book."** *Exodus 32.32-33

*Deuteronomy* says *"the father shall not be put to death for the children
and the children shall not be put to death for the father-every person will
be put for his own sin* (24:16)

*Ezekiel* 18.4 *"For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as
the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will
die."
*
*Ezekiel *18.20 *"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will
not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of
the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and
the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him"
*
*Ezekiel* 18.27-28 *"But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he
has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life.  Because
he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he
will surely live; he will not die." *

I guess the early church fathers didn't like Gods version! So what else is
knew?




-- 

---

Brief CV of Jusfiq Hadjar



Jusfiq Hadjar, a christian, 66 years old, is an Indonesian living in the
Netherlands. He currently lives together out of wed-lock with Marlene Van
Doorn - a documentalist in African Studies Center (ASC) library - in Leiden.



Jusfiq Hadjar has, thus far, succesfully deceived many NGOs into believing
that he is a human rights activistist. One of the NGOs that has been trapped
in his lies is a Muslim human rights group, the Movement against Racism and
for Friendship among Peoples.



Jusfiq Hadjar is very active in his campaigns against Islam and Muslims on
the Internet, especially in several Indonesian mailing lists. He will spread
massive amounts of offensive, slanderous, lying statements against Islam and
Muslims day in and day out and at the same time claiming that he is a
Muslim.



Undoubtedly, Jusfiq Hadjar is one of those people who still thinks that
adhering to a daily routine of cursing and swearing on the Internet would
help to make him look intelligent and preserve his sanity. It shoots no
wonder then if you find mosts of his writings on the Internet are just about
cursing and swearing at Muslims and licking the ass of his christian
friends.



Jusfiq Hadjar has joined several mailing lists in order to spread his severe
hatred against Islam and Muslim on the Internet:



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apakabar/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minangnet/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/istiqlal/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/partai-keadilan/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ijtihad/

[proletar] Diselamatkan???

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik JustJoiningTheTribe

*SAVED?*

*Hugh Fogelman and John Stone*





Today the world is faced with a veritable army of Christian missionaries ―
running the gamut from Baptists, assorted evangelicals and pentecostals/
charismatics, Mormons and more. The one common denominator is their threat
that ALL must convert to Christianity (especially their brand) to be
"saved." Think! For even one moment do you really think that your Creator
would create a world and not provide for his Creations (us)? NO! But, that
is just exactly what Christianity and these missionaries are claiming!

In essence the Christian message is that God screwed up when He created this
earth and left his children hanging in limbo for 3,795*1* years until he
figured he had goofed and fixed it. Oh, so how did the creator of time,
gravity, the universe, endlessness et al fix His colossal goof up?
Christianity has you believe that their god figured out that the fix was to
impregnate an earthling and have a half-man/all-god child. Funny, this sound
like a half-dozen other pagan myths which preceded Christianity by 900 or
more years BCE. Hmmm, seems like Christianity is not original in its
theology, but owes its source to pagans of old. But I digress, back to the
earthling-god.

Christianity's essence, its core, its whole is all about ONE THING and one
thing only – this earthling half-man/all-god child who:

· *Crawled out from a womb;***

· *Cried for food;***

· *Suckled teats;***

· *Sprayed Mary & Joseph with yellow "holy water*;*"***

· *Crapped his pants;***

· *Had to learn how to walk and run;***

· *Had to be taught to read and write;***

· *Grew up; and***

· *Was killed ― died!***

That is the essence of the Christian story as recorded in the Christian
bible ― all else is merely commentary!

And somehow this is supposed to be our Creator's fix for His colossal
oversight ― letting humanity slip through the cracks for 3,795 years. What,
was the Christian god doing; playing Bridge or inventing football or
something really important – so much so that he just plain forgot and time
slipped away?

Remember Christianity claims that from day one on the earth there was a
devil at war with their god. AND this devil had POWER to punish people (oops
make that sinners) with hell fire and lakes of brimstone. So, were the
"damnable" sinners burning while the Christian god twiddled his thumbs or
finished his Bridge Rubber match?

The Mormons claim these poor people were in some sort of super-size holding
area "waiting for the DEAD earthling man-god to make his sacrifice and save
them. Well with them Mormons it gets even more complicated; seems like these
people "on-hold" were really waiting until Mormonism had been invented and
had trained missionaries who could perform rites for the dead,; ergo saving
them ONLY if they wished to be saved. But this *"saving" *meant that the
holding-area dead people had to agree to become Mormons. It gets even more
strange *2*, but that will have to wait for future articles.

Mr. Thomas Roper *3*, set forth an unanswerable question to Christianity.

I have a question for those who believe that one must "accept Jesus" as
messiah, G-d, and the son of G-d, in order to "be saved."

At what point in history did this become necessary?

· Was it at the time that Jesus was born?

· Was it when he began his ministry?

· Was it when he was crucified?

oWas it when, according to Christian teachings, he "arose from the
dead?"

oWas it when, according to Christian teachings, he "ascended to
heaven?"

*WHEN??*

If it was at one of those points, say for example when he was crucified, did
a person in China who died the next day, go to hell because he had not
accepted Jesus as savior?  In other words:  Is it or is it not, necessary
for one to accept Jesus as G-d, in order to please G-d?  If so, "when ― at
what point in time ― did it become necessary?"

Remember, the Mormons had an answer for "when." It was:

·After Joe Smith became a prophet;

·After he had declared himself to hold the priesthood;

·After he had started the Mormon religion;

·After he had trained missionaries;

·After he had invented rites to be performed for the dead; and

·After he had built temples in which to perform them.

So, in the case of Mormonism, those poor souls, in hellfire, had 1,835 more
years of waiting and burning than the "saving" offered by "the church." And
for this, Mormons train over 65,000 missionaries each year to knock on your
door and "save" you!

Now stop a moment and regroup. With all the "Jesus this" and "Jesus that"
you have throughout your life, you may have forgotten:

*For thou art an holy people [Israel] unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy
God hath chosen thee t

[proletar] I baptize you...

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik JustJoiningTheTribe

 --
 --
 



-- 

---

Brief CV of Jusfiq Hadjar



Jusfiq Hadjar, a christian, 66 years old, is an Indonesian living in the
Netherlands. He currently lives together out of wed-lock with Marlene Van
Doorn - a documentalist in African Studies Center (ASC) library - in Leiden.



Jusfiq Hadjar has, thus far, succesfully deceived many NGOs into believing
that he is a human rights activistist. One of the NGOs that has been trapped
in his lies is a Muslim human rights group, the Movement against Racism and
for Friendship among Peoples.



Jusfiq Hadjar is very active in his campaigns against Islam and Muslims on
the Internet, especially in several Indonesian mailing lists. He will spread
massive amounts of offensive, slanderous, lying statements against Islam and
Muslims day in and day out and at the same time claiming that he is a
Muslim.



Undoubtedly, Jusfiq Hadjar is one of those people who still thinks that
adhering to a daily routine of cursing and swearing on the Internet would
help to make him look intelligent and preserve his sanity. It shoots no
wonder then if you find mosts of his writings on the Internet are just about
cursing and swearing at Muslims and licking the ass of his christian
friends.



Jusfiq Hadjar has joined several mailing lists in order to spread his severe
hatred against Islam and Muslim on the Internet:



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apakabar/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minangnet/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/istiqlal/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/partai-keadilan/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ijtihad/



Marlene Van Doorn is very supportive of his life partner's evil activities
on the Internet, and gives her financial support by providing him with
meals, accomodation and Internet connection. He is also allegedly financed
by Leiden church.



He has no children.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] bagi yg belum tau..


Ngibul. 

Movement against Racism and for Friendship among Peoples
(dalam bahasa Perancis Mouvement contre le Racisme et pour l'Amitié
entre les Peuples) adalah organisasi Perancis. 

Saya pernah jadi anggota pengurusnya dulu dan sering mewakilinya
di Komisi dan Sub-Komisi HAM PBB... 


On 19 Jun 06, at 15:55, Nataatmaja, Hidayat wrote:

> From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JustJoiningTheTribe
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:02 PM To:
> islamkristen@yahoogroups.com Subject: ARSIP JUSPIG HADJAR Xanana mulai
> mengemis ke Indonesia
> 
> 
> Brief CV of Jusfiq Hadjar 
> 
> 
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar, 66 years old, is an Indonesian living in the
> Netherlands. He currently lives together out of wed-lock with Marlene
> Van Doorn - a documentalist in African Studies Center (ASC) library -
> in Leiden.
> 
> 
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar has, thus far, succesfully deceived many NGOs into
> believing that he is a human rights activistist. One of the NGOs that
> has been trapped in his lies is a Muslim human rights group, the
> Movement against Racism and for Friendship among Peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar is very active in his campaigns against Islam and
> Muslims on the Internet, especially in several Indonesian mailing
> lists. He will spread massive amounts of offensive, slanderous, lying
> statements against Islam and Muslims day in and day out and at the
> same time claiming that he is a Muslim. 
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly, Jusfiq Hadjar is one of those people who still thinks
> that adhering to a daily routine of cursing and swearing on the
> Internet would help to make him look intelligent and preserve his
> sanity. It shoots no wonder then if you find mosts of his writings on
> the Internet are just about cursing and swearing at Muslims and
> licking the ass of his christian friends.
> 
> 
> 
> Jusfiq Hadjar has joined several mailing lists in order to spread his
> severe hatred against Islam and Muslim on the Internet:
> 
> 
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamkristen/
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apakabar/
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minangnet/
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/istiqlal/
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/partai-keadilan/
> 
> 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] BBC: UN fears new conflict in Somalia



 BBC NEWS
UN fears new conflict in Somalia

Daily arms shipments are arriving in Somalia in violation of a United
Nations arms embargo, a senior UN official has told the BBC.

Bruno Schiemsky, co-ordinator of the UN Monitoring Group, said the
flow of arms had risen substantially since Islamists went on the
offensive this month.

He warned it was only a matter of time before the Union of Islamic
Courts clashed with interim government forces.

The African Union has urged the world to renew support for the 
government.

It is under growing pressure from the Islamist militia who now 
control the capital, Mogadishu, and have extended their authority
through much of central and southern Somalia.

Somalia is struggling to emerge from 15 years of anarchy and violence
which have seen it with no functioning government since the overthrow
of Siad Barre in 1991.

Military build-up

Mr Schiemsky describes a growing build-up of arms inside Somalia with
deliveries coming in by air and by sea on a daily basis.

The Union of Islamic Courts is reported to be beginning to threaten
President Abdullahi Yusuf's own base in the semi-autonomous northern
region of Puntland.

The president and the transitional government are based in Baidoa,
north-west of Mogadishu.

On Saturday, the Islamists complained that Ethiopian troops had 
crossed into Somalia - a claim denied by Addis Ababa.

Ethiopia has supported the transitional president, and is determined
not to see an Islamic state founded in Somalia.

Independent sources are now also saying that about 500 Ethiopian
troops are indeed inside Somalia - just east of Baidoa.

With both sides re-arming, and credible reports of foreign troops
inside the country, the situation in Somalia looks increasingly grim,
the BBC's Martin Plaut reports.

Beleaguered government

In a communique from its headquarters in Ethiopia, the African Union
(AU) condemned the violence destabilising Somalia, and called for the
early deployment of peacekeeping forces in the country.

The military advance of the Islamist militia has threatened to 
undermine the minimal achievements of the transitional government,
established 18 months ago.

The AU said the international community should not let up in its
support for what it described as the legitimate authority in Somalia.

However, Union of Islamic Courts, which denies US claims that it is
linked to al-Qaeda militants, has said it has no intention of trying
to take over from the transitional administration and is prepared to
engage in talks, given the right conditions. Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/5091942.stm

Published: 2006/06/18 10:42:39 GMT

© BBC MMVI




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Aljazeera: EU agrees on Palestinian aid plan



 Close 

EU agrees on Palestinian aid plan
by 
Friday 16 June 2006 11:49 AM GMT 


Most international aid was cut off after Hamas' poll win  

European Union leaders have endorsed a plan to channel aid to 
Palestinians focusing on health, power supply and support for needy
families, while maintaining a funding freeze on the Hamas-led
government.


A final statement from the EU summit on Friday said the 25-member bloc
"stands ready to contribute a substantial amount to the international
mechanism," which would channel aid to the Palestinians but bypass
Hamas.

Emma Udwin, EU spokeswoman, said the EU was considering an initial
allocation of about $126 million. 

She told reporters the EU wanted to have the funding mechanism 
working by early July.

Benita Ferrero-Waldner, the External Relations Commissioner, 
said: "We Europeans are determined to play our part in preventing a
humanitarian crisis in the Palestinian territories." She will head to
Middle East on Monday to present the plan.

The EU statement said the plan was drawn up in consultation with the
United States, Russia and the United Nations, who agreed with the EU
in May that a mechanism had to be found to keep the Palestinian
economy afloat after most international aid was cut off after Hamas'
January election win.

Udwin said she expected final approval from the full Quartet group of
Middle East mediators and other donors within days.

'Social allowances'

There was no mention in the statement of payment of salaries to 
Palestinian government workers - which is opposed by Israel - but it
did refer to "social allowances" by which EU would entail payments to
health workers and other needy families. 


Ferrero-Waldner (L): EU considers
an initial allocation of $126 million 

"Nobody is paying wages, forget wages," Udwin said. 

"There is a big difference between wage and allowance."

The fund will be managed by the World Bank and the EU, working with
the office of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas whose Fatah movement
is Hamas' main political rival.

EU leaders said there would be no contact with Hamas unless it 
renounced violence, recognised Israel and respected existing peace
agreements. 

"There can be no business as usual with a government that has not yet
accepted the fundamental principle of peace," Ferrero-Waldner said.

Israel pushed

The EU has urged Israel to resume the transfer of more than $50 
million in monthly tax revenues it collects on behalf of the 
Palestinians.

Those funds are "essential in averting a crisis in the Palestinian
territories," the draft EU statement said. 

The EU said the revenues could be channelled through the new 
mechanism.

Israel blocked those funds after the Hamas election victory. 


The EU will focus on securing
essential fuel supplies 

The EU, the US and other donors also froze hundreds of millions of
dollars in direct aid to the Palestinian government after the win by
Hamas, which the EU and US have branded as a terrorist organisation.

The aid freeze has meant that about 165,000 government employees,
including teachers, health workers and security personnel, have not
been paid in three months. 

In its statement, the EU urged other donors, including Arab states, to
"consider early and substantial contributions."

The mechanism will have three parts: one managed by the World Bank
will focus on maintaining health services including "basic allowances"
for doctors and nurses; the second will aim to secure essential
utilities such as fuel supplies; the third will create a "social
safety net" making direct bank transfers to the accounts of needy
families.

"All three of these elements will operate with strict controls and in
full accountability and transparency," Udwin said.

Condemnation

The EU draft statement urged Israel to resume peace talks with Abbas.

It urged him to disarm violent groups and halt attacks on Israel.

In a message to the Israelis, the EU condemned violence against 
Palestinian civilians and urged a halt to "any action that threatens
the viability of an agreed two-state solution and from acts that are
contrary to international law." 

The statement referred in particular to the construction of Israel's
West Bank security barrier and Jewish settlements in the area.

Referring to Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert's determination to
draw Israel's final borders by 2010 - with or without an agreement
with the Palestinians - the EU said it "will not recognise any change
to the pre-1967 border other than those agreed by both sides."


AP
By 

You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8D216D76-E508-4EE2-AFFA-
3D15392030F6.htm 

 Close 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [E

[proletar] BBC: Profile: Somalia's Islamic Courts



 BBC NEWS
Profile: Somalia's Islamic Courts

The Islamist militia that now controls Somalia's capital, Mogadishu,
has emerged out of a judicial system funded by the powerful business
community to try and bring some law and order to a country without a
government.

But over the past two years, the Union of Islamic Courts has emerged
into Somalia's strongest fighting force - forcing the warlords who
have controlled the capital for the past 15 years into retreat.

BBC Somali Service editor Yusuf Garaad Omar says they are the most
popular political force in the country.

There are 11 autonomous courts in Mogadishu, some of which have 
periodically tried to clamp down on robbery, drugs and what they say
are pornographic films being shown in local video houses.

At first they concentrated on petty crime but by the mid 1990s they
had progressed to dealing with major crimes in north Mogadishu.

Thieves had their limbs amputated and murderers were executed.

Mr Garaad says that despite protests from human rights bodies, north
Mogadishu residents were pleased to enjoy law and order - in stark
contrast to south Mogadishu, where crime was rampant.

The system has since further expanded and the Islamic courts also
validated transactions such as the purchase of houses and cars.

They also oversaw weddings and divorces and expanded their authority
across most of the capital, while staying out of politics.

"They were really trusted by the people, who had no other institution
to go to," Mr Garaad says.

Clan courts

The Islamic courts say they want to promote Islamic law rather than
clan allegiance, which has divided Somalis over the past 15 years.

However, all but one of the 11 courts is associated with just one clan
- the Hawiye, who dominate the capital, but they are divided into
sub-clans.

In order to avoid accusations of clan bias, each court would try
members of their own sub-clan, wherever the alleged crime was
committed.

Some clan elders in north Mogadishu have now set up their own court,
independent of the union.

Al-Qaeda links?

The union's public face is its chairman Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, a 
moderate who sought to assure Somalis and the international community
this week that the Islamic Courts were no threat and only wanted
order.

Mr Ahmed, 32, is a law graduate from Libya and former secondary 
school geography teacher.

But the union does contain radical elements.

Two of the 11 courts are seen as militant; one is led by Sheikh 
Hassan Dahir Aweys, on an American list of terrorism suspects because
he used to head al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, which was linked to al-Qaeda.

Mr Aweys says al-Itihaad no longer exists and also denies accusations
from some western diplomats and observers that there are training
grounds for Islamic fighters in Somalia.

He is, however, strongly critical of the United States and its "war on
terror".

Western diplomats are also concerned by Afghanistan-trained militia
commander Adan Hashi Ayro, whose militiamen have been implicated in
numerous killings of Somali nationals, as well as five foreign aid
workers and a BBC producer, Kate Peyton.

Hated

But Somalia is a strongly Islamic country and many people support the
courts.

During the years of warfare and anarchy, many Somalis have 
increasingly turned to their faith for some sort of stability.

One visible sign is that before the civil war began in the 1980s, very
few women wore headscarves in Mogadishu.

Now, almost every woman wears a headscarf and an increasing number are
wearing veils covering their faces, with just narrow slits for the
eyes.

Even those Mogadishu residents who are wary of Islamic extremism may
welcome a single group being in control of the capital for the first
time in 15 years, saying there will at least be some authority.

And most will prefer Islamic preachers to the warlords who have 
repeatedly fought over and in many cases systematically looted the
city since 1991.

BBC Somali analyst Yusuf Garaad Omar says the warlords were hated -
even more so because of the widespread belief that they were being
backed by the US.

The US has not been well thought of in Somalia since its humanitarian
intervention went disastrously wrong - leading to the death of maybe
1,000 Somalis and 18 US troops in 1993. Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/5051588.stm

Published: 2006/06/06 17:02:20 GMT

© BBC MMVI




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, se

[proletar] Aljazeera: Dozens killed in Iraq attacks





 Close 

Dozens killed in Iraq attacks
by 
Saturday 17 June 2006 9:23 AM GMT 


A security crackdown has failed to stem the violence in Iraq  

About 40 people have been killed and more than 80 wounded in a string
of bomb and mortar attacks across Iraq, most of them in Baghdad.


The violence on Saturday, which included at least four car bombs in or
near Baghdad, occurred despite a security crackdown in the Iraqi
capital.   

In the deadliest attack, a car bomb struck an Iraqi police checkpoint
in al-Maalef district, a Shia area southwest of Baghdad, killing at
least 12 people and wounding 38, police said.

Another car bomb targeting the Iraqi army and police killed 11 
people. 

Fifteen others were wounded when a bomber blew himself up at a joint
Iraqi army and police checkpoint in Baghdad's Karrada neighbourhood,
an interior ministry official said.

Markets hit

Six people were killed and 25 others were wounded in a roadside 
bombing in central Baghdad's Haraj market.

Two people died and 14 were wounded when three mortars hit the al-
Istarabadi traditional market in Baghdad's Shia neighbourhood of
Kadhimiyah.

Another civilian was killed and five wounded in a car bomb attack next
to the National Theatre in the Karrada neighbourhood.

In the town of Mahmudiya, 30km south of the capital, a car bomb 
targeting an Iraqi army checkpoint killed seven people, police said.

Security crackdown

The series of attacks took place despite tens of thousands of Iraqi
and US troops patrolling the streets of Baghdad since Wednesday as
part of a massive security crackdown imposed by Nuri al-Maliki, the
prime minister.


Al-Maliki deployed thousands of
troops on Baghdad's streets 

Four days into the crackdown, the interior ministry has not yet 
announced any arrests or other results.

The attacks also come a day after a bomber carrying explosives in his
shoes blew himself up in Baghdad's biggest Shia mosque of Baratha,
killing 11 and wounding 25 people.

Also on Friday, unknown assailants killed the deputy chief of the
municipal council of the small town of Daghara and his two sons,
police said. The killing of Rasim Moussa took place near his house at
night.

In another incident, a civilian was killed in a drive-by shooting near
his house in the town of Mahaweel, 75km south of Baghdad, police said.

US soldiers missing

Meanwhile, US military helicopters and divers searched for two US
soldiers missing after an attack on Friday in which one American
soldier was killed in Yusufiya in the "Triangle of Death" south of
Baghdad.

Major-General William Caldwell, the spokesman for the US military in
Iraq, said "we are using all available assets, coalition and Iraqi -
ground, air and water - to locate and determine the duty status of our
soldiers".

He said teams of divers were searching the canals and Euphrates river
near Yusufiya, a rural area which has seen fierce fighting between US
forces and fighters.

More than 2,500 US soldiers have died in Iraq since the US-led 
invasion in 2003.


Agencies
By 

You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/EE15F4D7-F7C9-45EA-8B72-
A0FD98C5B653.htm 

 Close 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] CNN: Dozens die in wave of Baghdad attacks




Dozens die in wave of Baghdad attacks

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- At least 36 people were killed Saturday in
Baghdad in a string of attacks around the capital, police say.

Four of the attacks came between 10 and 11 a.m. (0600 and 0700 GMT),
one in the early afternoon and two more in the evening, despite a
major security crackdown against insurgents in the city.

The two deadliest attacks were car bombs, one of which targeted an
Iraqi army-police patrol in central Baghdad around 11 a.m. (Watch the
chaotic scenes right after the strikes -- 1:24)

Eleven people, including one Iraqi soldier, were killed and 15 people
were wounded, including eight soldiers and three police.

An evening car bombing killed 12 and wounded 36 at a police 
checkpoint in the al-Maalef Shiite district of southwest Baghdad,
police said.

Also in the evening, insurgents bombed an Iraqi police patrol, 
killing one officer and wounding four in the Dora neighborhood of
southern Baghdad.

Two markets were bombed during the busy midmorning. Around 10 a.m.
Saturday, four mortar rounds slammed into Sarabadi market in the
Shiite neighborhood of Kadhimiya in northwestern Baghdad, killing two
and wounding 14 others.

A bomb exploded in Haraj market in central Baghdad at 10:30 a.m.,
killing five people and wounding 25.

One person was killed and five were wounded when a car bomb detonated
near the National Theatre in central Baghdad at 10:40 a.m.

Another incident took place around 1:15 p.m. in a Shiite neighborhood
in southeastern Baghdad.

A bomb exploded in a minibus that was carrying passengers. Four 
people were killed and seven others were wounded.

Attack on soldiers
Saturday's blasts followed Friday violence that claimed the life of at
least one U.S. soldier. One U.S. soldier was killed while two others
were unaccounted for Friday after they came under attack at a traffic
checkpoint in Yusufiya, about 20 miles southwest of Baghdad.

A quick reaction team was searching for the missing soldiers early
Saturday morning. The team was dispatched to the scene after other
troops nearby heard gunfire. (Full story)

The soldiers were officially listed as "whereabouts unknown," which
means they could have been captured or killed or could be hiding out.

Friday's death brought to 2,492 the number of U.S. troops killed in
the Iraq war. Seven American civilian employees of the military also
have died in the conflict.

Suicide bomb at mosque
Meanwhile, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official on Saturday said 
authorities concluded the suicide bomber at a Shiite mosque in 
Baghdad on Friday managed to slip inside the mosque with explosives in
his shoes and believe he was with an accomplice.

Police believe the bomber wanted to kill the imam at the holy site --
the Buratha Mosque in northwestern Baghdad -- Sheikh Jalaluddin al-
Saghir, a member of parliament affiliated with the Shiite-led United
Iraqi Alliance -- the coalition that won a plurality in the December
15 parliamentary elections.

The bombing killed 11 and wounded 25 during Friday prayers. It 
occurred during a four-hour vehicle ban designed to thwart suicide car
bombings and it came during the start of a major Baghdad security
crackdown.

Maj. Gen. Mahdi al-Gharrawi of the Interior Ministry told CNN the
bomber went into a bathroom either carrying or wearing his shoes,
removed the explosives, placed them in a suicide belt, and then sat
among prayer-goers with the belt strapped on.

Around that time, guards in the mosque discovered shoes set aside with
explosives in them and began searching the mosque for the owner of the
shoes.

While the search was going on, the bomber blew himself up.

The shoes the authorities found didn't detonate, and the owner of
those shoes is thought to have fled, police believe.

It is the custom to remove shoes when entering a mosque.

Suicide bombers also struck the mosque on April 7, killing more than
80 people.

Sources: Haditha report done
Maj. Gen. Eldon Bargewell -- charged with leading an investigation
into the deaths of Iraqi civilians in Haditha -- has completed a
report, according to military sources.

The investigation was to determine how the Haditha incident was 
reported and whether there was a cover-up. No findings or date of the
public release of the report were disclosed.

Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, who as head of Multinational Corps-Iraq is
the second highest in commander in Iraq, will review the report.

The Naval Criminal Investigative Service is conducting a separate
criminal inquiry.

The investigations stem from allegations that U.S. Marines killed up
to 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha last November after a roadside bomb
killed one of their own.

Other developments

The U.S. Army has begun an investigation into the deaths last 
month "of three males in coalition force custody," the U.S. military
said Friday. Chiarelli said the deaths occurred on or about May 9 in
southern Salaheddin province, north of Baghdad.

The U.S. House of Representatives rejected

[proletar] BBC: Bombers defy security to hit Iraq



Bombers defy security to hit Iraq

At least 41 people have been killed and 100 injured in a string of
attacks in and around the Iraqi capital, Baghdad.

The targets included a minibus, markets and Iraqi security 
checkpoints.

The attacks came in defiance of a major security clampdown launched in
Baghdad on Wednesday, which has seen thousands of extra troops on 
the
streets.

The bombers seem determined to prove they can continue despite the
curfews, checkpoints and combing operations, says the BBC's Jim Muir
in Baghdad.

At least nine separate attacks were reported in and around Baghdad.
They included car bombs, mortar attacks and a device planted on a
minibus.

Civilian casualties

Baghdad's Haraj and Kazimiya markets were both targeted, causing many
civilian casualties.

Security checkpoints in Mahmudiya, a town 30km (20 miles) south of
Baghdad, and in Baghdad's Karrada district, were also hit - with many
of the casualties reported to be civilians.

Others died when a device devastated a minibus in the al-Amin 
district of the city.



Since the security clampdown was launched on Wednesday, thousands of
extra US and Iraqi troops have been on the streets of Baghdad, manning
checkpoints in a high-visibility security operation.

Officials had feared a backlash after the death of the leader of al-
Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, despite a series of raids
targeting his insurgency network in the wake of his death.

But they had also hoped to capitalise on possible disruption to the
militants caused by Zarqawi's death and by the subsequent raids, and
were keen to be seen as gaining the upper hand over the bombers,
correspondents say.

On Friday, a suspected suicide shoe-bomb attack at a key Shia mosque
in Baghdad left 11 people dead - an indication that the bombers were
prepared to change tactics to beat the new security regime.

Missing soldiers

In a separate development, the US army said it was hunting for two of
its soldiers missing after an attack that killed a third.

The men's checkpoint south of Baghdad came under fire on Friday 
evening, and when back-up forces got there they found one man dead and
two missing, officials said.

Teams of divers are searching canals and rivers near the scene, 
outside the town of Yusufiya.

"We are currently using every means at our disposal on the ground, in
the air and in the water to find them," said US spokesman Major
General William Caldwell.

"We... will not stop looking until we find the missing soldiers."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5089950.stm

Published: 2006/06/17 18:29:13 GMT

© BBC MMVI




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: ALIF BA TA ... (updated)



Pasar jalan karena dituruti, lancar kaji karena diulang. 

ALIF. 

Kita anggap saja dulu bahwa kedua versi al-Mushaf yang ada
ditangan kita (versi Kairo dan Magrib) otentik berisi wahyu
Allah - seperti dikatakan oleh orang sekeliling kita. 

Dan kita baca ayat-ayatnya dengan memakai akal dan kejujuran
intelektuil. 

Akan segera kelihatan bahwa isinya ternyata banyak dongeng,
dusta, omong kosong dan kibulan serta ajaran buas, biadab dan keji
lagi kejam serta suruhan dan larangan absurd.. 

Saya yakin saya tidak perlu berpanjang lebar hingga titik ini,
karena kalau masih ada peserta mailing list ini yang masih belum
tahu semua ini, maka artinya orang itu tolol atau tidak punya
kejujuran intelektuil. 

Lagi pula mereka bisa melihat contoh yang dibeberkan peserta
lain - juga saya - di mailing list proletar, istiqlal dll. 

Dan dengan memakai google  bisa ditemukan dengan mudah websites
yang menunjukkan semuanya ini lebih lengkap - sepeti answering
islam dll. 

BA. 

Tapi apakah al-Mushaf itu memang berisi wahyu Allah? 

Nggak ada bukti bahwa al-Mushaf itu memang berisi wahyu Allah. 

Dengan menurutkan cerita orang Arab selama ini yang berkata
bahwa: 

1.Al-Mushaf itu usmaniyah dan 

2. 'Catatan aslinya' sudah dihancurkan atas perintah Usman 

maka kita TIDAK bisa berkata bahwa al-Mushaf itu memang berisi
wahyu Allah. 

Bagi yang belum paham: 

1 kita tidak punya bukti bahwa al-Mushaf itu sesuai isinya
dengan "catatan asli'nya 

2. kita tidak tahu apakah "catatan asli" itu memang berisi wahyu
Allah. 

3. Kita tidak punya bukti bahwa "catatan asli" itu memang pernah
ada. 

Dan jangan lupa - karena ini amat penting -:  Puin mengingatkan
kita bahwa TIDAK ada bukti arkeologis yang menunjukkan bahwa
al-Mushaf itu memang usmaniyah. 

Semua ini hanyalah cerita orang Arab yang tidak disertai bukti. 

TA. 

Lalu sejak tahun 1972 kita punya al-Mushaf Yemen yang menunjukkan
bahwa: 

1. Versi al-Mushaf itu banyak 

2. Dan isinya suka diubah. 

Kesimpulan dari semua ini adalah: 

Al-Mushaf itu hanyalah semacam Tambo orang Bedui penduduk Hejaz
yang hidup disekitar abad ke VII atau VIII Masehi. 

Dan tambo orang Bedui inilah yang dijadikan kitab suci oleh orang
Islam diseluruh dunia. 

(update: bila tulisan reviosionis seperti Wansbrough, Crone,
Cook dll. confirmed - maka saya koreksi bagian terakhir tulisan
saya ini dan saya katakan bahwa al-Mushaf itu adalah tambo yang
ditulis di Arab utara diabad ke VIII atau IX Masehi dan bukan di
Makkah atau Madinah diabad ke VII Masehi).

update Maret 2004: kayaknya tulisan Luxenberg (Die
syro-aramaisch Lesart des Koran..) membuka cakrawala baru lagi:
dia berkesimpulan bahwa al-Mushaf itu asal mulanya adalah
leksioner salah satu sekte Nasrani yang berusaha mengajak orang
Bedui yang politheis untuk masuk sekte Nasrani itu. 

P.S. 

Posting ini saya kirimkan dulunya ke berbagai mailing list,
antaranya, proletar dan adalah kesimpulan yang saya tarik
setelah bertahun-tahun  berdiskusi diberbagai mailing list yang
saya ikuti dan setelah saya ikuti perkembangan kajian yang
muttaakhir.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] PERTANYAAN KEPADA PESERTA NASRANI DAN ISLAM TIPIKAL ...(was APRe: [islamkristen] TUHAN KRISTEN PEMBUNUH BERDARAH DINGIN

Nah sekarang mari kita ajukan pertanyaan berikut kepada orang
Nasrani disini: 

Kenapa SEKARANG gereja Katolik Roma dan gereja-gereja anggota WCC
menolak kekerasan, menolak hukuman mati, menolak peperangan
(seperti perang Irak misalnya). 

Dan sejajar dengan itu: mari kita ajukan pertanyaan berikut
kepada orang Islam tipikal: 

kenapa  boleh dibilang tidak ada golongan Islam (dengan beberapa
kecuali seperti Jemaah Ahmadiyah) yang tegas-tegas menentang
kekerasan, menentang hukuman mati dan menentang peperangan? 

On 17 Jun 06, at 12:44, goleo_weltmeister wrote:

> Tuhannya Kristen ternyata pembunuh berdarah dingin:
> 
> "Tuhan membunuh Er, anak sulung Yehuda" (Kejadian 38:7)
> 
> "Tuhan membunuh Onan, adiknya Er, anak Yehuda" (Kejadian 38:10)
> 
> "Tuhan membunuh tiap-tiap anak sulung di tanah Mesir" (Keluaran 12:29,
> 13:15)
> 
> "Tuhan membunuh raja Saul" (I Tawarikh 10:13-14), dan lainnya.
> 
> 
> 
> Jika begitu, apakah Tuhan harus dihukum mati?
> 
> "Siapa yang membunuh seseorang manusia, ia harus dihukum mati" (Imamat
> 24:21, Imamat 24:17).
> 
>   [:))]
> 
> 
> 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Apa susahnya sih minta bukti sebelum percaya...




Apa susahnya sih minta bukti sebelum percaya...? 

Kenapa orang Islam tipikal tidak minta bukti ketika ada orang
yang bilang al-Mushaf berisi wahyu Allah? 

Jawabnya jelas: mereka itu dungu kayak anjing.

Bak anjing budug lapar melihat  seonggok taik angat, mereka
lahap saja omongan orang Arab yang tidak berbukti itu. 

Agar jelas: orang Islam tipikal itu adalah manusia dungu yang
tidak punya harga diri yang bersedia jadi korban kibulan orang
Arab. 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Jadi Islam itu apa sih sebenarnya...?



Jadi Islam itu apa sih sebenarnya...? 

Bila kajian Lüling, Wansbrough, Luxenberg dll. itu confirmed, maka
buntut-buntutnya  Islam itu hanyalah semacam sekte ajaran Nasrani
doang...  

Yang lahir dari ramuan doktrin berbagai sekte Nasrani dan Yahudi
(Secterian Milieu menurut istilah Wansbrough) yang ada di Timur
Tengah disekitar abad ke VII atau VIII Masehi, ditambah dengan
berbagai bawaan budaya Arab yang kejam, keji, buas, ganas lagi
biadab... 

Cuman itu kok, kayaknya. 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/9I_uBB/YPaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Hadits itu MUSTAHIL ada yagn sahih...



A (Bukhari, Muslim dll.) katanya mencatat omongan B yang nguping
dari C yang denger dari D yang diceritain E dst. dst. yang hidup
lebih dari seratus tahun yang lalu... 

Ya MUSTAHIL lah yaauw ada hadits itu yang sahih... 

MUSTAHIL ada cerita yang sampai dari mulut ke mulut selama lebih
dari se abad itu masih bisa sahih... 

Dan yang terpenting, TIDAK ada bukti bahwa A memang mencatat
omongan B,  bahwa B memang pernah nguping dari C, bahwa C pernah
denger dari D dan bahwa D pernah diceritain oleh E... 

Semua itu hanyalah omongan tanpa bukti... 





==

Jusfiq Hadjar gelar Sutan Maradjo Lelo
...

Orang Islam tipikal kudu sadar bahwa al-Mushaf itu TIDAK berbukti
berisi wahyu Allah dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Zo.u8A/lOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Nabi Muhamad yang adalah tokoh fiktf..



Tidak ada bukti bahwa nabi Muhamamd seperti yang diceritakan oleh
hadits dan sirah nabi itu  memang pernah hidup... 

Tapi orang Islam tipikal yang dungu-dungu kayak babi itu telah
dan masih menjadikan tokoh fiktif itu sebagai panutan dan
junjungan... 

Saya ulang: orang Islam tipikal itu adalah gerombolan manusia
yang betul-betul retarded. 
 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Reposting: Nabi sundel Muhamamd & Milasovic




Jadi, menurut sumber yang dipercaya orang Islam tipikal, ketika
nabi Muhamad yang sundel kayak babi lagi ganas, buas, kejam lagi
keji itu sampai di Yathrib, banyak orang Yahudi yang tinggal di
oasis itu. 

Orang Yahudi itu termasuk penduduk asli Yathrib itu. 

Setelah tu Nabi sundel kayak babi serta ganas, buas, kejam lagi
keji itu meninggal boleh dibilang tidak ada lagi orang Yahudi di
sana. 

Ada yang dibunuh beramai-ramai oleh mukmin, lalu istrinya
diperkosa beramai-ramai pula.

Lalu perempuan itu dijadikan budak bersama anak-anaknya..

Ada pula orang Yahudi yang  diusir ke Khaybar setelah kebon
korma mereka dirampok oleh Nabi Muhamamd yang sundel kayak babi
itu... 

Bagi yang lupa: kelakuan Nabi sundel kayak babi yang ganas, buas,
keji lagi kejam ini mirip dengan kelakuan Milasovic... 

Yang dilakukan oleh Nabi sundel kayak babi yang ganas, buas,
kejam lagi keji itu adalah ethnic cleansing. 

Dan Nabi sundel kayak babi lagi buas, kejam, ganas lagi keji
inilah yang dijadikan junjungan dan panutan oleh orang Islam
tipikial yang memang dungu-dungu kayak keledai debil pengencuk
kambing congek lagi cacingan. . 

Tapi bukan hanya itu yang menyedihkan... 

Nabi Muhamamd itu adalah tokoh fiktif... 

Yang hanya ada di hadits dan sirah Nabi yang MUSTAHIL ada yang
sahih... 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Re: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan dungu..


Karena anda dungu kayak anjing, makanya menyembah Allah fiktif
itu merupakan kenikmatan buat anda.. 


On 19 Jun 06, at 8:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Sungguh tiada kenikmatan yang tersisa didunia ini selain
> Sholat, Menuntut ilmu, silaturrahmi dengan saudara semuslim. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jusfiq Hadjar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan
> dungu..
> 
> 
> | On 18 Jun 06, at 18:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> | 
> | > Dungu menurut presepsi anda, namun nikmat buat kami 5x sehari
> sholat | > wajib, itu tandanya ummat islam punya otak, punya rasa | >
> takut,pengharapan,dan cinta. | > | | | Nikmat menyambah Allah
> fitktif... | | Ya dungu. | | Dungu sekali. | | Orang yang
> mau menyembah Allah fiktif itu nggak pake otak | dengan baik-baik
> buat mikir | | | | > berbeda dengan agama anda, yang sembahyangnya
> 1x sepekan itupun kalo | > hujan/gempa ngk bakalan hadir untuk
> berkaorake ria di gereja. | > | | Saya nggak sembahyang kok... | |
> Allahu Akbar. | |  | | |  | > - Original Message - | >
> From: "Jusfiq Hadjar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > To:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:44 PM
> | > Subject: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan |
> > dungu.. | > | > | > | | > | | > | Mengingat bahwa Allah yang
> digambarkan al-Mushaf itu fiktif, |  | >   maka yang dilakukan orang
> Islam tipikal yang tunggang tunggik || > lima kali sehari
> menyambah Allah fiktif itu adalah perbuatan || > dungu... | | | |
> | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | | | | | > __ NOD32
> 1.1606 (20060617) Information __ | | This | > message was
> checked by NOD32 antivirus system. | http://www.eset.com | | > | | > |
> > | | | | |  | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | |  | | | | | | | __
> NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __ | | This message was
> checked by NOD32 antivirus system. | http://www.eset.com | | 
> 
> 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] [EMAIL PROTECTED] itu Islam fanatik..(was Re: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan dungu..

  

[EMAIL PROTECTED] itu Islam fanatik...? 


On 19 Jun 06, at 8:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Sungguh mengherankan bagi kami sebagai Islam fanatik, ternyata di
> kitab kaum kuffar diajarkan cara baris-berbaris dan manjat tembok juga
> pantas...aja kalo diajak dialog ngk perna nyambung..he.he..
> 
> terimakasih saudara, cerita ini sangat lucu untuk dijadikan pengantar
> tidur kami...
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Nataatmaja, Hidayat 
>   To: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:14 AM
>   Subject: RE: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan
>   dungu..
> 
> 
>   ha ha haaa
> 
> Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,  itu benar sekali.
> Ternyata anda sempat tengok2 juga gerombolan pengamen di gereja
> itu.
> 
> saya kasih tau mas, dulu  mereka ngamennya di atas di
> tembok..malah ada yg nyanyi dekat tong sampah.  liat ayat ini:
> 
> Yehezkiel 12:31 Aku persilakan para pemimpin Yehuda naik ke atas
> tembok untuk mengatur dua kelompok besar yang akan berbaris
> mengelilingi kota sambil menyanyikan pujian syukur kepada Allah.
> Kelompok yang pertama berbaris di atas tembok, menuju ke kanan, ke
> Gerbang Sampah
> 
> 
>   -Original Message-
>   From: islamkristen@yahoogroups.com
>   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:19 PM To:
>   islamkristen@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [islamkristen]
>   Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan dungu..
> 
> 
>   Dungu menurut presepsi anda, namun nikmat buat kami 5x sehari
>   sholat wajib, itu tandanya ummat islam punya otak, punya rasa
>   takut,pengharapan,dan cinta.
> 
>   berbeda dengan agama anda, yang sembahyangnya 1x sepekan itupun
>   kalo hujan/gempa ngk bakalan hadir untuk berkaorake ria di
>   gereja.
> 
>   - Original Message -
>   From: "Jusfiq Hadjar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:44 PM
>   Subject: [islamkristen] Menyembah Allah fiktif itu ya perbuatan
>   dungu..
> 
>   |
>   |
>   | Mengingat bahwa Allah yang digambarkan al-Mushaf itu fiktif, |
>   maka yang dilakukan orang Islam tipikal yang tunggang tunggik |
>   lima kali sehari menyambah Allah fiktif itu adalah perbuatan |
>   dungu... | | | | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | | | |
>   __ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __ | |
>   This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. |
>   http://www.eset.com | |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   __ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __
> 
>   This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>   http://www.eset.com
> 
> 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/si.u7A/bOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Dasa Titah Bola - Ronaldinho

2006-06-19 Terurut Topik mangucup88

Dasa Titah sang pemuja Ronaldinho

1. Jangan ada padamu idola lain selainnya Ronaldinho
2. Jangan membuat bagimu pemain lain yang menyerupai Ronadinho
3. Jangan menyembut mana pemain lain selainnya Ronaldinho
4. Ingatlah dan kuduskanlah hari sepak bola
5. Hormatilah pelatih dan jurimu
6. Jangan berakhir sebelumnya final
7. Jangan mencintai team lainnya
8. Jangan main curang
9. Jangan mengucapkan bahwa Brasil tidak akan jadi juara
10. Jangan mengingini apapun selainnya Brasil jadi juara

Mungkin ada usulan lainnya

Mang Ucup
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: www.mangucup.net







 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] 54% of Arab children 'in danger'

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150355520848&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Jun. 18, 2006 22:47 | Updated Jun. 19, 2006 10:17

54% of Arab children 'in danger'
By ORLY HALPERN

Arab children in Israel are at a much greater risk of being uneducated, turning
to violence, getting ill and even dying compared to Jewish children, said
lecturers at a conference at the Hebrew University School of Social Work on
Sunday.

According to Prof. Hillel Schmid, dean of the school, of the approximately
60,000 Arab children living in Israel about 10,000 are defined as being in
danger and crisis. Statistics show that 54 percent of these children are living
below the poverty line, 2.5 times the percentage of Jewish children.

The School of Social Work hosted a day-long conference Sunday at which 13
lecturers described the results of their research into the health, education
and welfare of Arab children and youth in Israel.

"Poverty causes children to leave school and it negatively affects the ability
of the Arab family to provide for their children," said Prof. Muhammad
Haj-Yahia, also of the School of Social Work. "It has negative consequences not
only on education and health, but also on the rise of crime and violence in
Arab society."

Infant mortality among Arabs in Israel is twice as high as among Israeli Jews.
Prof. Ilana Shoham-Vardi, of the Faculty of Health Sciences at Ben-Gurion
University, said the problem is particularly acute among the Negev Beduin, a
great number of whom live in unrecognized villages and therefore have less
access to health services. More than 15% of Beduin babies die within one year,
compared to 8.8% of all Muslim babies in Israel and 5.4% of Jewish babies.

Particularly important, said Shoham-Vardi, "is the need for primary prevention
before pregnancy: [Beduin] women need education, to learn to use folic acid,
[to be taught] not to marry cousins or at least to have medical checks to make
certain there are no [genetic] problems."

The state of education for Arabs is no less worrying. Only 4% of Arab
two-year-olds are in an educational framework, as opposed to 30% of Jewish
two-year-olds, according to Schmid.

Reem Zriq, a kindergarten coordinator on the Yafia Local Council and a member
of the Follow-Up Committee for Arab Education for Toddlers, presented the
results of a joint research project made with Nabeah Abu-Saleh, chairman of
Follow-Up Committee for Arab Education.

According to the Central Bureau of Statistics, 56% of Arab children aged three
to four are in an educational framework, compared to 90% of Jewish children.

However, according to the statistics of the Follow-Up Committee for Arab
Education, only 46% of the Arab children in this age group get an education.

"One of the most extraordinary statistics is the number of preschools [in the
Arab sector]: there are 1,500. We are missing another 2,250," Zriq said. What
is more problematic, she said, is that there are fewer government-run
preschools and more and more privately-run ones where the supervision is
substandard. "Anyone can open one now," she said.

"The law states that there needs to be one supervisor for every 80 to 100
preschools," said Zriq. "But in all of the Arab sector there are only 6.5
allocated posts for supervisors for 1,500 preschools. This means that there is
one supervisor for every 300 preschools."

To exacerbate the problem, there is a lack of permanent buildings for the
schools. "More than 90% of the buildings used for preschools are rented and the
Education Ministry contributes very little to this," said Zriq, according to
whom the ministry pays NIS 8,600 towards an annual rent of NIS 30,000, leaving
the local council to pay the difference. "The result is it eats into local
budgets meant for other things."

Zriq and Abu-Saleh accused the government and local councils
of shirking their responsibility to give accessible education to toddlers.

Dr. Aziz Haidar, a senior researcher at both the Van Leer and
Truman centers, put responsibility not only on the government, but on Arab
society in Israel.

"We understand there is a deficit in the government
infrastructure to deal with this crisis," said Haidar, "but there is also a
lack of local organizations within the Arab society that can themselves deal
with the crisis."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/do.u8A/hOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~->

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://proletar.8m.com/

[proletar] Five cups of coffee a day guarantee absolutely healthy liver

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/14-06-2006/81978-cirrhosis_coffee-0


  Five cups of coffee a day guarantee absolutely healthy liver 
  14.06.2006
 
 
 
 
  Drinking one to three cups of coffee a day is associated with a 40% 
decrease in the risk of alcoholic cirrhosis versus drinking less than one cup. 
People who drink two or three cups a day are 40% less likely to contract 
cirrhosis, while those who drink four or more cups are 80% less likely to 
suffer the disease. 



  Coffee protects drinkers' liver 
   





  The findings, conducted by researchers at the Kasier Permanente, in 
Oakland, California, are thought to be the largest study to look at the inverse 
relationship between coffee and cirrhosis. The link was first reported by 
researchers at the same institute in 1993 but this new study - of 125,000 
people over 22 years - "solidifies the association", Arthur L Klatsky, the lead 
author of the study, said. 

  Dr Klatsky, who was involved in the earlier research, added: "Consuming 
coffee seems to have some protective benefits against alcoholic cirrhosis, and 
the more coffee a person consumes the less risk they seem to have of being 
hospitalised or dying of alcoholic cirrhosis. We did not see a similar 
protective association between coffee and non-alcoholic cirrhosis." 

  The researchers, whose findings are published in the US journal Archives 
of Internal Medicine, followed more than 125,000 health plan members who 
underwent a medical examination between 1978-1985 and who, at the time, had no 
diagnosed liver disease. Participants filled out a questionnaire detailing how 
much alcohol, coffee and tea they drank daily. 

  By the end of 2001, 330 participants had been diagnosed with liver 
disease, including 199 with alcoholic cirrhosis - caused by the consumption, 
each day, of three or more units of alcohol. 

  Researchers - who only counted those who had been hospitalised or died 
because of the disease - found that the more coffee a person drank the less 
likely they were to develop alcoholic cirrhosis. 

  Drinking tea had no effect, suggesting the ingredient that protects 
against cirrhosis is not caffeine. 

  Blood tests conducted on the 5% of drinkers who consumed the most alcohol 
confirmed that coffee drinkers were less likely to have high levels of enzymes 
in the liver - a key indicator of liver damage, according to The Guardian. 

  The risk of cirrhosis, both alcoholic and nonalcoholic, increased with 
age, male sex, and obesity, but education was protective-cirrhosis risk 
declined as years of education increased. 

  Among the findings: 

  Coffee drinking was positively correlated with smoking and alcohol 
drinking. 

  - As expected mean blood levels of AST and ALT increased as alcohol 
consumption increased. 



  - In a cross-sectional analysis coffee drinking was inversely related to 
AST and ALT levels, people who drank four or more cups of coffee daily reduced 
the risk of elevated AST by 50% (95% CI, 0.4-0.6; P <0.001) and for elevated 
ALT by 40% (95% CI 0.6-0.7; P<0.001). 

  Additionally, the inverse relationship between liver enzyme elevations 
and coffee consumption was strongest among heavy drinkers, MedPage Today 
reports. 

  The researchers said they could not be absolutely sure whether or not 
caffeine was the key ingredient because tea drinking was not particularly 
popular among the study population. 

  Identifying the ingredient responsible could open the way for potential 
preventive treatment and help develop greater understanding of the mechanisms 
of liver disease, says BBC. 

  Source: agencies 

  Prepared by Alexander Timoshik
  Pravda.ru 

  Discuss this article on Pravda.ru English Forum 

   

 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email design.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/co.u8A/gOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Terrorist leader Sadulayev killed in Chechnya was planning big terrorist act

http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/terror/18-06-2006/82150-Sadulayev-0


  Terrorist leader Sadulayev killed in Chechnya was planning big terrorist 
act 
 
  06/18/2006
 

  The so-called President of Ichkeria Abdul-Khalim Sadulayev, who was 
killed yesterday, was planning a big terrorist attack in the Chechen town of 
Argun - the same place where he was tracked down and killed, Chechnya's Prime 
Minister Ramzan Kadyrov stated. The operation in which Sadulayev was killed was 
carried out in the Chechen city of Argun. Officers from the Kadyrov special 
police task force No. 2 and the Argun district police department pinpointed 
Sadulayev's whereabouts and killed him. 



  Abdul-Khalim Sadulayev killed, the AP photo 
   





  Argun police department chief Ali Tagirov has confirmed Sadulayev's 
death. 

  "Investigating officials have arrived at the scene of the operation, 
people who knew Sadulayev well are being taken there, and procedures to 
identify the man's body are being carried out. At the same time, the 
participants in the operation have no doubts about the very fact of Sadulayev's 
killing," Tagirov said. 

  Sadulayev was elected so-called President of Ichkeria (the name which 
terrorists use for Chechnya) in March 2005 when terrorist leader of Chechnya 
Aslan Maskhadov was killed by the Russian federal forces. 

  Chechnya's Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov said the hunt for Sadulayev in 
Argun was held as a part of a large-scale operation searching for terrorist 
leaders in the region. Pro-Russian Chechen troops joined units of the Federal 
Security Service for the operation. 

  Source: agencies

  AP photo
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/gi.u7A/fOaOAA/Zx0JAA/uTGrlB/TM
~-> 

Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe   :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List owner  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:  http://proletar.8m.com/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[proletar] Asian Highway network gathers speed