Re: [racket-users] Apple M1

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Have you tried running it under Rosetta 2? 

$ arch -x86_64 racket
# or do
$ arch -x86_64 zsh
# now all commands will run under Rosetta 2

Or so I believe from seeing people with similar problems, with other software. 
I have not tested this, and do. Not have an M1 Mac. And, I have no idea how to 
run Dr Racket under this...

Hope this helps!?

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 20:08, Zachary Rippas  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know when/if a download version of racket will be released that 
> supports Apple's new chip? I am using an M1 laptop and can't launch any intel 
> version of racket; it says quit unexpectedly.
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Re: [racket-users] Re: (chaperone RacketCon) 2020

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Jay,

I was expecting this to be like PLDI, and that came with an amazing song: “This 
is Still PLDI” — https://youtu.be/hVMCl64Uhe8

Does Racket Con have an official song? 

Thanks,

Andrew



P.S. — yes, I am being a troll. However, I would genuinely love to see a Racket 
Con song. I have no talent for music, or production, but if I can lend my 
crappy voice, silly lyrics, or somehow help a passionate community member who 
thinks this is a fun idea, and wants to roll with it, let me know!

> On Sep 3, 2020, at 06:20, Jay McCarthy  wrote:
> 
> The site is up with speakers and times:
> 
> https://con.racket-lang.org/
> 
> Please get pumped and put the dates in your calendars.
> 
> And stay tuned for details about how technically the conference will work.
> 
> Thanks everyone!
> 
> <3
> 
> Jay
> 
> --
> Jay McCarthy
> Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
> http://jeapostrophe.github.io
> Vincit qui se vincit.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 7:25 PM Jay McCarthy  wrote:
>> 
>> In October 2020, we'll be holding a virtual RacketCon, rather than an
>> in-person meeting as usual. We hope to get back to normal in 2021. We
>> have not worked out the exact dates and details, but have a few
>> parameters.
>> 
>> We're thinking about following PLDI, where the general model is to
>> have pre-recorded talks, which I would help presenters prepare,
>> followed by live Q with an MC relaying questions from Slack. We'd
>> hope to have the usual State of Racket presentation from Matthew,
>> which would lead into a town hall Q/comment session with members of
>> the Racket team.
>> 
>> The main details we need to work out now are exactly which and how
>> many days to run it and in what time slots and in what time zones. I
>> would greatly appreciate any comments you have in response to this
>> form:
>> 
>> https://forms.gle/cYNNY9XhmEoUBBe19
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> --
>> Jay McCarthy
>> Associate Professor @ CS @ UMass Lowell
>> http://jeapostrophe.github.io
>> Vincit qui se vincit.
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Code Jam

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

I am surely not the only one asking “What is code jam?”

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 06:52, Gustavo Massaccesi  wrote:
> 
> 
> Code Jam is in a few days, but Racket is not available :(. 
> 
> Anyone know how difficult is to add a new language to the list? (Probably for 
> 2021.)
> 
> Gustavo
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Re: [racket-users] Racket2 possibilities

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:15 AM Alexis King  wrote:
>
> On Jul 22, 2019, at 14:16, Dexter Lagan  wrote:
> To say that Racket is so defined by its syntax that it will cease to be 
> distinguishable from any other language if it is changed is absurd, and it’s 
> frankly insulting to all the people who have put so much effort into every 
> part of Racket.

You have an advantage of being well invested in the Racket ecosystem
already. How do you convince someone _else_, perhaps in industry, that
Racket is interesting? It's pretty hard to say: "Look! Scribble and
Typed Racket, and contracts, and 10 other things make up this really
awesome ecosystem all running on a single VM, and they can all share
code!" Why? Because it's a _lot_ to digest, a _lot_ to try to
understand / invest in, and we live in a world where Go, a language
that effectively contains only 1970s language technology, is
dominating because of its simplicity and distinct lack of features.

On the other hand, people look at parens, think Lisp, completely
discount it because they heard "parens were really annoying to read,"
or had a bad experience in college, and then move on anyway. People
judge a book by its cover, and they judge a language by its syntax.

Growing a language community is _really, really, really hard_, and is
only going to get harder as Racket grows in complexity, and other
languages come up that have immediately familiar syntax, and a simple
to understand core. A new syntax might checkmark the first point, but
I kind of think that the #lang ecosystem, _might actually be doing a
disservice_ to Racket. It's all the traditional complaints about
macros "you have to learn the original author's DSL" mixed with "you
have to learn the original author's half broken / buggy parser /
syntax and quirks, the new semantics it adds on, _and_ the library
that goes along with it, too." Oh, and "it's all mixed in with this
other stuff written in #lang racket, with these silly parens. I AM
CONFUSED!"

Not sure how to resolve all this, and I'm sorry for lacking a central
thesis in my reply, except to say that "syntax matters" and "Racket
isn't easy" ...

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Re: [racket-users] Racket2 possibilities

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Thank you for writing this.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 11:49 AM Matthew Flatt  wrote:

> Possible Language Changes
> -
>
> The Racket community has long discussed possibilities for Racket2. Here
> are a few potential changes from the wish list:

I like this list of changes. I'd feel great about Racket 2 if it
doubled down on removing concrete types in favor of interfaces /
abstract types. I'd feel great about Racket 2 if pattern matching was
core, and I didn't have to think about `case-lambda` and friends. I'd
feel great about structures / records if I didn't have a million
different options when defining them. I'd feel great about Racket 2 if
we introduced "arc"-like accessors, and conveniences that removed the
need for nested function calls (e.g. `(foo-name afoo)` vs
`afoo.name`)...

I'd feel great about Racket 2 if it maintained the curation and
simplicity of R*RS Scheme, but with modern conveniences that reduced
keystrokes and line width without giving up expressivity.


> Surface Syntax
> --
>
> You won't find a wish for significant changes the Racket surface
> syntax anywhere on the Racket2 wish list. Nevertheless, I've suggested
> tacking it on.

I'm in favor of a different syntax if it doesn't add new semantics
along with it. I'm also in favor of an s-expression based syntax that
uses less parens all together. In other words, I think a way to
proceed might be to have syntax be actually surface, and completely
inter-changeable, such that if I prefer s-expressions, Dr Racket
allows me to edit that way. If I prefer an infix representation, Dr
Racket can read the s-expressions and convert it to infix, and convert
it back on save (Or the other way around depending on the code base
preferences).

As Lispers we've all argued that surface syntax doesn't matter for
years, trying to get people to not see our choices as "Lots of
Infuriating Stupid Parentheses." So, why not go all in on this and
show that we really believe it?

I realize I'm asking for a pony, _and_ a horse...

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Re: [racket-users] go cheney yourself

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

I was hoping for a link to Baker’s “Cheney on the MTA”

http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html

(Since I didn’t get it, here you are!)

> On Jan 9, 2019, at 17:41, Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)  wrote:
> 
> Entirely off-topic for racket-users.
> 
> Where is this list that I can read you post links like this? :-)
> 
> -- 
>/c
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 05:41 Tim Hanson > Sorry! Yes, wrong list; noticed immediately; deleted immediately, butI guess 
>> that doesn’t stop the mails.
>> 
>> Mea maxima culpa.
>> 
>> I’ll try to be more careful in the future.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> 
>> > On Jan 8, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Matthias Felleisen  
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > This is totally inappropriate. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On Jan 8, 2019, at 4:09 PM, Tim Hanson  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> great piece by Michelle Goldberg, imho:
>> >> 
>> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/opinion/rashida-tlaib-profanity.html
>> >> 
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Re: [racket-users] hackernews

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 8:24 AM Brett Gilio  wrote:
>
>
> Hendrik Boom writes:
>
> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 09:51:17AM -0500, Neil Van Dyke wrote:
> >>
> >> Python started out as some guy on Usenet with a reusable extension
> >> language (Tcl was another, and some RnRS implementations were another)
> >> -- all 3 of them had interesting innovations and merits. (Tcl got
> >> popular because of Tk GUIs, and then it has some moments in the sun
> >> for earlier database-backed Web servers (as opposed to manually-edited
> >> HTML) while a lot more readable than Perl, and was pushed commercially
> >> by Philip Greenspun, before Sun hired Tcl creator Ousterhout, and Tcl
> >> disappeared, in favor of Java and then LiveScript/JS.)
> >
> > I seem to remember hearing that Scheme was one of the
> > inspirations for Python.  That and another language.
> >
> > -- hendrik
>
> That other language is Dylan, which is also inspired by Scheme.

Sometime in the 2000s, I heard Guido talk at Google NYC about the
history of Python. In the 80s he was working for / with librarians who
used a language called "ABC." Python was meant to be a better version
of that. The History of Python wiki page suggests it was meant as a
"better verson of ABC with exceptions and better integration with the
Amoeba Operating System."[1] The exceptions originally were inspired
by Modula-3, apparently. Any influence of Lisp, and Scheme came later,
is my guess. That same page cites a quote from Guido suggesting "some
Lisp hacker" implemented map, filter, and lambda for version 1.


[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python


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Re: [racket-users] project idea: drracket notebook mode

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:26 PM Tom Gillespie  wrote:
>
> Neil mentioned Ryan's work on this in the thread about hacker news. There are 
> a number of issues with getting jupyter to play nicely with #langs some of 
> which I have submitted a pr for, but my solution is partial and very 
> suboptimal. A drracket-like solution, even just for kernels is likely not 
> trivial. Matthew Butterick and Jay came up with a solution for embedding 
> languages that uses #lang at-exp which might point a way to a potential 
> solution, but might be barking up the wrong tree. As a side note the jupyter 
> ecosystem is in the middle of transitioning from notebook to lab and last 
> time I checked there seem to have been breaking changes which caused iracket 
> to fail, though that my just have been on my setup.

Ah! I had no idea. I didn't follow that other thread, and didn't see
an entry in the Jupyter Kernels list so just assumed this was not a
thing yet. Thanks for pointing out the reference to existing work
here!

> On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 12:53:13 AM UTC-5, Andrew Gwozdziewycz 
> wrote:
>>
>> It seems like the better bang for buck might be implementing a Jupyter 
>> kernel, and leveraging that ecosystem.
>>
>> https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 02:46, Neil Van Dyke  wrote:
>>
>> If anyone is looking to avoid relatives over the winter holiday season, 
>> here's an idea for a big feature to add to DrRacket (which I really wish I 
>> could do myself right now)...
>>
>> If you've not seen a "notebook" interface, like in Jupyter Notebook and some 
>> other data science-oriented tools, one way to look at it is like a literate 
>> programming REPL that can be edited, stored to a file, and loaded.  You can 
>> also share these notebooks with others, or generate formats like HTML or 
>> Markdown (such as for blog posts).
>>
>> The notebook is a document that's a sequence of text cells and code cells, 
>> and the code cells include the output (e.g., expression results, displayed 
>> plots) from the last time the code cell was evaluated (if it was).  Each 
>> code cell also displays a small serial number that indicates in what order 
>> it was last evaluated (if it has been), which is not necessarily the 
>> top-to-bottom order of the document while you're working with it.  Of 
>> course, you can clear this code evaluation and output at any time, and cause 
>> all the code cells to be evaluated in-order.
>>
>> IIRC, DrRacket emphasizes the Definitions window over the Interactions 
>> window (aka REPL), to reduce confusion for students.  I think the confusion 
>> level of the Notebook interface is somewhere between that of Definitions 
>> window and a REPL.  So the notebook interface might not be good for new 
>> students, unless they're already comfortable with the notebook interface 
>> from other classes.
>>
>> Implementation-wise... the people here who built DrRacket can correct me or 
>> say more about this, but it seems DrRacket implementation might already 
>> include most of the difficult work of implementing a notebook interface.  
>> The evaluation engine is there, and there's UI for snips in the Interaction 
>> window, and UI for embedding blocks of other formats in the Definitions 
>> window.  Maybe combine/adapt that in a new Notebook window, or implement 
>> this as features of the Definitions window.  Then you can decide whether to 
>> also implement the JSON save format of Jupyter Notebook, for possible later 
>> interoperation.  And other things after that, like in-buffer Markdown or 
>> Scribble rendering of text cells.
>>
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Re: [racket-users] project idea: drracket notebook mode

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

It seems like the better bang for buck might be implementing a Jupyter kernel, 
and leveraging that ecosystem.

https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels

> On Dec 20, 2018, at 02:46, Neil Van Dyke  wrote:
> 
> If anyone is looking to avoid relatives over the winter holiday season, 
> here's an idea for a big feature to add to DrRacket (which I really wish I 
> could do myself right now)...
> 
> If you've not seen a "notebook" interface, like in Jupyter Notebook and some 
> other data science-oriented tools, one way to look at it is like a literate 
> programming REPL that can be edited, stored to a file, and loaded.  You can 
> also share these notebooks with others, or generate formats like HTML or 
> Markdown (such as for blog posts).
> 
> The notebook is a document that's a sequence of text cells and code cells, 
> and the code cells include the output (e.g., expression results, displayed 
> plots) from the last time the code cell was evaluated (if it was).  Each code 
> cell also displays a small serial number that indicates in what order it was 
> last evaluated (if it has been), which is not necessarily the top-to-bottom 
> order of the document while you're working with it.  Of course, you can clear 
> this code evaluation and output at any time, and cause all the code cells to 
> be evaluated in-order.
> 
> IIRC, DrRacket emphasizes the Definitions window over the Interactions window 
> (aka REPL), to reduce confusion for students.  I think the confusion level of 
> the Notebook interface is somewhere between that of Definitions window and a 
> REPL.  So the notebook interface might not be good for new students, unless 
> they're already comfortable with the notebook interface from other classes.
> 
> Implementation-wise... the people here who built DrRacket can correct me or 
> say more about this, but it seems DrRacket implementation might already 
> include most of the difficult work of implementing a notebook interface.  The 
> evaluation engine is there, and there's UI for snips in the Interaction 
> window, and UI for embedding blocks of other formats in the Definitions 
> window.  Maybe combine/adapt that in a new Notebook window, or implement this 
> as features of the Definitions window.  Then you can decide whether to also 
> implement the JSON save format of Jupyter Notebook, for possible later 
> interoperation.  And other things after that, like in-buffer Markdown or 
> Scribble rendering of text cells.
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket language for enterprise software

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

> On Sep 25, 2018, at 10:37, Neil Van Dyke  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure, but I suspect many employers might also want you to say 
> "agile", "scrum", and "bro" a lot, preferably with an affable Californian 
> surfer accent. :)

SHRED THE GNAR!

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Re: [racket-users] Can anyone help me with a change?

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Hi,

I think it's the case that making the change to `random` is simple (or
removing it if that's the appropriate thing), though I *believe* that
Danny would be the only one who could re-upload it to planet.

If you're willing to get it from a different source, e.g.
pkgs.racket-lang.org, then it should be easy enough for anyone to
upload the modified version there.

Cheers,

Andrew

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:46 PM, Josh Paley  wrote:
> Racket Community,
>
> We use the book Simply Scheme at my high school.  Danny Yoo did a wonderful
> job adapting the library content for that book, but he left the code for
> random numbers in place.  The book assumed versions of Scheme that might not
> have random and provided a fixed seed, meaning every time a new session is
> run, the seed goes back to the same thing.
>
> What I was hoping was that Danny would have time to do an update that would
> remove the random code in the simply.scm file, but he's unable to do so and
> suggested that I see if someone in racket-users might be able to help by
> forking planet-dyoo-simply-scheme2 and doing whatever it is that needs to be
> done to create an update.  If someone could guide me on how the process of
> modifying an existing package, I'd do it as I know exactly what code I am
> looking for and it ought to be an easy change.
>
> If you can help, please let me know.  My fellow teachers and I would be
> extremely grateful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Josh
>
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Re: [racket-users] Intro and projects inquiry

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:02 PM, David Storrs <david.sto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We need people building tools and blogging about why using Racket made
> I agree that talking about how great Racket is will be an important
> part of increasing uptake.  That said, I contend that it is not
> enough.  People have been talking about how awesome LISP is for
> literally decades, and many of those people are influencers.  Example:
>  Paul Graham, who is essentially the god of Silicon Valley startups,
> has blogged extensively about how amazing LISP is and how it vastly
> increased the speed of his startup.  Despite that, I know of exactly
> zero SV startups that are using LISP -- I've been out of the valley
> for a couple years now, so maybe it's changed, but I was there for
> quite a while and never heard of any.

To be fair, despite Mr. Graham's talk, he didn't exactly put a lot of
code out that *showed* anyone anything. But take Clojure as an
example. It's got an advantage in that there's an immediate avenue for
getting it integrated with an existing codebase -- It's written in
Java. Adopting it to try it out isn't a big thing if you're already a
JVM shop.

But what if you *aren't* a JVM shop? Why would you adopt Clojure? It's
really not because of the libraries, or frameworks around it. Most of
that, at least early on, was really surface level stuff, except for
maybe Ring for web apps. But, Ring really isn't all that special...
either. Still, Clojure was successful *outside* of the world of the
JVM. ClojureScript maybe even more so!

Racket doesn't play well with existing code bases (except C things)
and so my hypothesis is simply that to gain adoption of Racket, you
need to solve problems that aren't in the "production path." Good
thing there are *lots* of those! All those Python scripts you have?
All of those Perl scripts that no one understands anymore? Those are,
in my opinion, the way in.

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Re: [racket-users] Intro and projects inquiry

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

I love seeing all of these project ideas, but I really don't think
Racket needs a "killer app." I think what it needs is the people
passionate about it building tools in it, and *using* those tools in
the work place, and sharing the experiences of using those tools more
vocally.

We need people building tools and blogging about why using Racket made
the job easier. Why would it be harder to do in Python, or Ruby? We
need straight up advocacy, and that starts with everyone in this
thread who *hasn't* done that yet.

I started the thread about a "graphviz" like because I'd like to write
documentation without pointing and clicking--including the figures I
need to illustrate a point. That's not a killer app, but that's
something that I can *share* inside the work place to make the lives
of developers (who'd rather declare a drawing, than fight to point and
click with it), to have an integrated documentation system they can
use from their editor. It makes sense to me, and I'm sure it'd make
sense to them, too.

You might get some push back on the parentheses! You might get some
push back on the fact that Racket has it's roots in "LISP"
(intentionally capped). But, that's an opportunity. Show your
coworkers the *why*. Explain to them why it's powerful. Explain to
them that they can set up an editor to do parentheses matching.
Explain to them contracts, or Typed Racket, or how powerful the
language extension model is.

Anyway. I don't think it makes sense to solve problems that you don't
have. Solve your own problems, but do it in Racket. Then spread the
word that Racket made it easy, fun, and elegant! Be sure to somehow
include that the community is extremely welcoming, helpful, and
growing!

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:09 PM, James  wrote:
>
>> Does a killer app or library sorely need a Racket alternative?
>
> Let me throw out a few things which we would use in our business even if they 
> are not the most pressing needs in general.  We have ways to work around 
> these things but It would be much nicer to have a Racket native solution.  I 
> have numbered the list but they are really in no particular order.
>
> 1. Libsodium - We need to do some sophisticated encryption and web of trust 
> stuff.  See earlier comments on this list by Tony Garnock-Jones.
>
> 2. ICE NAT traversal - We need to do this and do it well.  Currently we are 
> working on using FFI to either PJNATH or libnice.  A pure Racket 
> implementation would be great.  It should probably be combined with Tony G's 
> efforts on UPnP and NAT-PMP,  https://github.com/tonyg/racket-nat-traversal.  
> This is an area which has suffered greatly from a lack of the right people 
> coming together and agreeing on a good standard.  ICE is a method for 
> prioritizing and selecting from multiple competing standards which may each 
> be the best choice in different circumstances.  UPnP and NAT-PMP are only 
> partial solutions for us and we really need STUN and TURN as well.
>
> 3. Advanced fountain codes - For example, https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.09125.  
> I haven't seen a Racket native library for basic Reed-Solomon erasure codes 
> either.
>
> 4. A DSL alternative to GraphViz - see my other message.
>
> 5. #lang R or some other method to combine Racket and R - We need to go to R 
> for computational work because that's what is trusted in the field.
>
> James
>
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Re: [racket-users] Racketeers and slide-show presentations

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

I've been hacking on a way to make *simpler* slideshow presentations, which 
I'll actually present briefly at Racketcon next month. The idea is to take 
something plaintext and turn it into slides, so you don't have to be a pict 
master. I am trying to work in how to include slides that are Picts, but it's 
still a bit early.

Naturally, the resultant slideshows are slideshow (the tool) compatible, and as 
a result, allow for speakers notes and handouts to be included. I hope to have 
a lot more posted next week, but the start of what I'm talking about is at:

https://github.com/apg/slideshow-simple

Not sure if that meets your needs yet, but hopefully it will soon.

> On Sep 16, 2017, at 08:06, Robby Findler  wrote:
> 
> In that case, it probably makes sense for you to use scribble to
> replace the LaTeX part of your workflow from the past. Specifically,
> if you've got a pict, you can just drop it into anywhere you would
> have put text in a scribble document and the right thing will happen.
> So hopefully this'll improve your workflow a little bit.
> 
> Robby
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Daniel Brunner  wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> when I used LaTeX/beamer I used beamer solely for the slides and
>> produced a seperate handout with LaTeX.
>> 
>> I switched to slideshow/pict recently but it takes a lot of time for me
>> to prepare the presentation due to my missing skills in using pict.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> Daniel
>> 
>>> Am 16.09.2017 um 16:08 schrieb Matthias Felleisen:
>>> 
>>> When you watch the presentations of people who present with latex/beamer,
>>> you notice that most just excerpt the paper. This reduces the amount of time
>>> needed to prepare the presentation and the quality of the presentation at 
>>> the
>>> same time. A paper/handout and a presentation are two completely different
>>> ways of bringing across intuition and if you connect them, you miss a 
>>> chance.
>>> 
>>> In this sense, you’re at an advantage with scribble and slideshow -) The bit
>>> of disconnect forces you to rethink the presentation. Pict is a bit of a 
>>> connection
>>> between the two.
>>> 
>>> Note of caution
>>> 
>>> — my use of scribble is restricted to a few papers with PhD students
>>>  and How to Design Programs/2e.
>>> 
>>> — I do not use slideshow only pict.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Gour  wrote:
 
 Hello!
 
 Racket language is deeply rooted in academia and used wildly in
 education, so, I hope, it's reasonable that Racketeers are often
 preparing slide-show presentations...
 
 In order to take an advantage of Racket's ecosystem I'd like to use it for 
 such
 purpose and slide-show package is natural choice, but  wonder how do
 Racketeers prepare speaker notes and/or handouts papers for their
 preparations?
 Got some info in #racket yesterday, but believe there must be some
 further info/ideas available?
 
 Having experience with LaTeX/Beamer I'd expect to have some integrated
 solution, but my browsing of slide-show & scribble docs hasn't yielded
 adequate information,
 
 Any hint?
 
 
 Sincerely,
 Gour
 
 --
 Abandoning all attachment to the results of his activities,
 ever satisfied and independent, he performs no fruitive action,
 although engaged in all kinds of undertakings.
 
 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [racket-users] Seeking a graphviz like, diagramming language for Racket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

As promised, I mocked up my original vs a quick iteration using pict.
It's not nearly as time consuming as I thought it'd be (took about 30
minutes not being familiar with the pict api):

https://gist.github.com/apg/e193b3f4b1626397ebb3065947a6ae8a

It's obviously not visually the same, but the same information is
basically conveyed in both. My biggest complaints are that of where
arrows end up, but other than that, This isn't tooo horrible as is,
but could be oodles better with some helpers.

Cheers,

Andrew


On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:22 PM, WarGrey Gyoudmon Ju
<juzhenli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:20 AM, Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Are you focused more on replacing Graphviz, or a generalized drawing
>> and visualization library that could be used to more easily put
>> together a Graphviz like tool? I guess they are likely somewhat
>> similar goals...
>
>
> Firstly, I just write it for fun, but also focus on high quality real world
> applications
> since I do not want to use any software design tools that force me dragging
> and clicking.
>
> In untyped racket (but may not in the main distribution), there are a lot of
> small packages
> that focus on one or more subfields of graph visualization and layout
> algorithms. In typed
> racket, there also are pict3d, plot, and flomap based images. So I think
> they definitely benefit
> user-designers and covers lots of everyday usage, but user-developers may
> need more
> extension abilities since modern applications grow too fast.
>
> Therefore, I am writing a modern design engine for programmers with an
> elegant functional interface,
> graphviz like tool is one of the applications of this engine, actually it is
> likely to be the first one.
>
> For now,
> * CSS syntax and its computation model is chosen to style elements and
> items;
> * New architecture and datatypes is coming soon for
> reading/composing/writing image resources.
>
> Also I am glad to write the entire tex system in native Typed Racket, though
> it is really a huge
> project and therefore a long term plan.
>



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Re: [racket-users] Seeking a graphviz like, diagramming language for Racket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Jens Axel Søgaard
<jensa...@soegaard.net> wrote:
> 2017-08-18 12:10 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've been using graphviz for years for basic network architecture
>> diagrams and things, mostly to avoid answering the question of "which
>> annoying tool should I use?" Graphviz has limitations for the type of
>> stuff I use it for, but I settle for it anyway, since it's a lot less
>> frustrating to use a language for laying out relationships than
>> clicking and dragging lines connecting things, in an agreed upon
>> diagramming tool.
>>
>> Has anyone started work (or finished work, or even somewhere in
>> between?) on a diagramming language that might be, or even eventually
>> will be a suitable replacement for performing these types of tasks?
>>
>> And if not, does anyone have suggestions for getting started with
>> layout drawing algorithms suitable for such a thing? I'm fairly sure
>> that the pict language will do the heavy lifting work for actually
>> drawing on a canvas, and simple layout techniques probably would go
>> along way, but getting to know the field a bit might be useful...
>
>
> Maybe you can find something useful in MetaPict?
>
> http://soegaard.github.io/docs/metapict/metapict.html

I think there's definitely a lot of interesting pieces to MetaPict
that will help! And, if it doesn't help directly with these efforts,
it'll at least be fun to play with!

>
> As for algorithms, this module contains references to interesting tree
> drawing algorithms:
>
> https://github.com/soegaard/metapict/blob/master/metapict/tree.rkt

Great!

Thanks!


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Re: [racket-users] Seeking a graphviz like, diagramming language for Racket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 7:10 AM, David Storrs <david.sto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It sounds like an interesting and useful project.  What would you want this
> solution to do, exactly?

The last public hack job I did using graphviz is something like this:

https://heroku-blog-files.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/1488278436-new-architecture.png

As you can see, it gets the point across, but it's not ideal from a
visualization stand point. From a creation standpoint it's great! You
basically declare the relationships, and a drawing comes out.

https://gist.github.com/apg/8c3c8b0bed910faa272aa9e8d6b4f718

My goal is probably somewhere in between in terms of layout. I want a
bit more flexibility, but a decent amount of help with layout. And, I
want a lot more flexibility, and a nice set of primitives for the
actual nodes themselves.

Jens' metapict, and pict itself probably provide enough to take a
serious stab at recreating that diagram more manually, and seeing
where it falls flat, so I'll try that as an exercise next week and
report back.

> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've been using graphviz for years for basic network architecture
>> diagrams and things, mostly to avoid answering the question of "which
>> annoying tool should I use?" Graphviz has limitations for the type of
>> stuff I use it for, but I settle for it anyway, since it's a lot less
>> frustrating to use a language for laying out relationships than
>> clicking and dragging lines connecting things, in an agreed upon
>> diagramming tool.
>>
>> Has anyone started work (or finished work, or even somewhere in
>> between?) on a diagramming language that might be, or even eventually
>> will be a suitable replacement for performing these types of tasks?
>>
>> And if not, does anyone have suggestions for getting started with
>> layout drawing algorithms suitable for such a thing? I'm fairly sure
>> that the pict language will do the heavy lifting work for actually
>> drawing on a canvas, and simple layout techniques probably would go
>> along way, but getting to know the field a bit might be useful...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andrew
>> --
>> http://www.apgwoz.com
>>
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Re: [racket-users] Seeking a graphviz like, diagramming language for Racket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 6:21 AM, WarGrey Gyoudmon Ju
<juzhenli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been working on it, but at very beginning stage and no working code
> right now.

Are you focused more on replacing Graphviz, or a generalized drawing
and visualization library that could be used to more easily put
together a Graphviz like tool? I guess they are likely somewhat
similar goals...

> The official website of Graphviz  provides lots of papers on the underlying
> algorithms,
> I also found Handbook of Graph Drawing and Visualization is worth reading.

The Handbook of Graph Drawing and Visualization looks really great!
Thanks for the recommendation!


> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've been using graphviz for years for basic network architecture
>> diagrams and things, mostly to avoid answering the question of "which
>> annoying tool should I use?" Graphviz has limitations for the type of
>> stuff I use it for, but I settle for it anyway, since it's a lot less
>> frustrating to use a language for laying out relationships than
>> clicking and dragging lines connecting things, in an agreed upon
>> diagramming tool.
>>
>> Has anyone started work (or finished work, or even somewhere in
>> between?) on a diagramming language that might be, or even eventually
>> will be a suitable replacement for performing these types of tasks?
>>
>> And if not, does anyone have suggestions for getting started with
>> layout drawing algorithms suitable for such a thing? I'm fairly sure
>> that the pict language will do the heavy lifting work for actually
>> drawing on a canvas, and simple layout techniques probably would go
>> along way, but getting to know the field a bit might be useful...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andrew
>> --
>> http://www.apgwoz.com
>>
>> --
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>
>



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[racket-users] Seeking a graphviz like, diagramming language for Racket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Hi folks,

I've been using graphviz for years for basic network architecture
diagrams and things, mostly to avoid answering the question of "which
annoying tool should I use?" Graphviz has limitations for the type of
stuff I use it for, but I settle for it anyway, since it's a lot less
frustrating to use a language for laying out relationships than
clicking and dragging lines connecting things, in an agreed upon
diagramming tool.

Has anyone started work (or finished work, or even somewhere in
between?) on a diagramming language that might be, or even eventually
will be a suitable replacement for performing these types of tasks?

And if not, does anyone have suggestions for getting started with
layout drawing algorithms suitable for such a thing? I'm fairly sure
that the pict language will do the heavy lifting work for actually
drawing on a canvas, and simple layout techniques probably would go
along way, but getting to know the field a bit might be useful...

Cheers,

Andrew
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[racket-users] Racket Con Lightning Talks?

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

While I'm guessing the answer is "the schedule is too full" (and,
woah, does it look like an incredible lineup) does Racket Con have
room for lightning talks? Lightning talks, for those not familiar, are
typically casual, 5 minute presentations on a topic. If there is room,
and the stars align, it's possible that I'd have something small to
present. If not, I'm still looking forward to pretty much every one of
the speakers, so no worries at all.

Thanks,

Andrew

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Re: [racket-users] RacketCon Code of Conduct

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

I used to run a Meetup in NYC called "Hack and Tell." For the first 5
years or something I kind of expected people to just be nice to each
other, and do the right thing. Then, I started having private
conversations with people, some women, some POC, and realized they had
bad interactions that I just simply wasn't aware of.

So, yeah, it's nice to think that people will behave and do the right
thing, but it's not guaranteed, and everyone will have a *better*
experience if there's a code of conduct and it's taken seriously and
enforced.

+1000 on having a code of conduct. Sorry, Matthias.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 5:13 PM, 'William J. Bowman' via Racket Users
 wrote:
> If men were angels... +1 for a CoC.
>
> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 09:50:53PM +0300, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>
>> A code of conduct is a totally stupid idea for RacketCon. Racketeers were 
>> raised properly by their parents and are well behaved. I really hate 
>> attending conferences that need to impose a code.
>>
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Re: [racket-users] Readtable extensions and syntax coloring in DrRacket

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Hi Brendan,

I'm wondering if you tried the here string syntax for your use case,
which other than the fact that it requires a couple of newlines seems
similar in vein to what you were going for (e.g. it doesn't escape
anything)?

```racket
> #< wrote:
> I wrote a little Racket meta-language that adds a dispatch macro to the 
> readtable for typing string literals without escape characters. You start 
> with two or more #'s followed by any non-# character, then the actual string 
> content, then end with the same non-# character and the same number of #'s. So
>
>> ##|"foo\bar"|##
>
> evaluates the same as
>
>> "\"foo\\bar\""
>
> Works great, but it does wreak quite some havoc on DrRacket's syntax 
> coloring. Unfortunately as far as I can tell the only way to fix that is to 
> replace the color lexer entirely; there's no compositon like there is with 
> readtables. Is that correct, or is there a trick that I'm missing?
>
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Re: [racket-users] Racket Shell

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 13:18, Vincent St-Amour <stamo...@eecs.northwestern.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:38:37 -0500,
> Andrew Gwozdziewycz wrote:
>> 
>> This discussion has reminded of SHILL
>> (https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/osdi14/osdi14-paper-moore.pdf)
>> which is less user focused, and more security / capabilities focused,
>> but the prototype (in Racket) utilizes contracts to enforce
>> capabilities checks.
> 
> Yes, that's really cool work!
> 
> For those interested, Scott will be speaking about Shill at RacketCon[1]
> next month.

Oh, rad! I will watch out for the video. Sadly, I won't be attending.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Shell

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

This discussion has reminded of SHILL
(https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/osdi14/osdi14-paper-moore.pdf)
which is less user focused, and more security / capabilities focused,
but the prototype (in Racket) utilizes contracts to enforce
capabilities checks.

I'm really into the idea of a nice Racket based shell that provides
more benefits than simply pipelines, though, `something/shell` did
look pretty neat by itself...

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Vincent St-Amour
 wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:45:24 -0500,
> William G Hatch wrote:
>>
>> > Is this at all related to Vincent's work? [1]
>> >
>> > [1]: https://github.com/stamourv/rash
>>
>> I had no idea that existed.  (in my defense, I did google "racket
>> shell", "racket rash", etc before starting this)
>>
>> I'll have to look at it as well.
>
> FWIW, the one thing that my `rash` really did was to put your $PATH in
> your Racket namespace. That's one of the aspects of bash that I think
> are really interesting and useful, and was the motivation for the project.
> That it's also a nice showcase for `#%app` is just gravy. :)
>
> The other aspect of bash that I find interesting, and was hoping to
> capture in `rash` was easy port redirection, pipelines, etc. bash makes
> simple patterns really easy. Racket is more flexible, but requires more
> scaffolding. I didn't find a design that would combine the simplicity of
> bash with Racket's syntax.
>
> Then there's also the implicit coercion story. Unix utilities basically
> all consume newline-separated strings. Racket functions typically need
> more specific kinds of inputs. So mixing the two together (which is
> really the point of having bash as a #lang) ended up requiring a lot of
> adapters. It's not clear to me how to get that without making the result
> as "ad-hoc" as bash itself, though.
>
> Anyway, just a few thoughts on the topic.
>
> Vincent
>
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Re: [racket-users] Racket -> HTML+JavaScript using Urlang and Ractive

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:56 AM, Daniel Prager 
wrote:

> Awesomely, Jens has been working on Urlang: a Racket-ish syntax for
> JavaScript, using the nanopass compiler infrastructure:
>
> https://github.com/soegaard/urlang
>
> and more ambitiously, a Racket (subset) ->JavaScript compiler (rjs),
> taking a distinct approach from Whalesong.
>
> * * *
>
> Just using plain Urlang together with sxml, Bootstrap (for css), and
> notably Ractive.js  for templating and data-binding I
> made the following demo / proof-of-concept:
>
>
> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/danprager/urlang/blob/master/urlang-examples/ractive/ractive-bootstrap-example.html
>
> Note: no heavyweight js runtime required: actually no runtime at all.
>
>
> Racket source:
> https://github.com/danprager/urlang/blob/master/urlang-examples/ractive/ractive-bootstrap-example.rkt
>
> HTML output (including embedded JavaScript):
> https://github.com/danprager/urlang/blob/master/urlang-examples/ractive/ractive-bootstrap-example.html
>
> The abstractions are a bit leaky, but I'm quietly excited about where this
> sort of approach could lead.
>
> What do you think?
>

Very neat! I had to make some changes to it before I could see it. This is
mostly around "mixed-content" due to mixing HTTPS with HTTP for assets.
Otherwise, all this is *very* promising.



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Re: [racket-users] predicate as an atom within a regexp?

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Matthew Butterick  wrote:

> What is the best approach to destructuring strings using predicates? For
> instance "match a substring for which `string->number` is true."
>
>
I am imagining an API that utilizes SCSH style regexes but allows you to do
something like this (fictional):

(define-values (area prefix line) (sre-match (: (= digits 3) (_? "-") (=
digits 3) (_? "-") (= digits 3

The `_` at the head of each component would essentially operate like `_`
does in structural pattern matching (e.g. ignore), but give you the ability
to specify a regexp that you are ignoring.

This may not be exactly what you are thinking of, but it's the half baked
idea that came to mind... The API, would also be pretty damn ugly.

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Re: [racket-users] predicate as an atom within a regexp?

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Matthew Butterick <m...@mbtype.com> wrote:

>
> On Mar 17, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Andrew Gwozdziewycz <apg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am imagining an API that utilizes SCSH style regexes but allows you to
> do something like this (fictional):
>
> (define-values (area prefix line) (sre-match (: (= digits 3) (_? "-") (=
> digits 3) (_? "-") (= digits 3
>
>
>
> Racket's `match` is not far from this. In fact maybe I shouldn't be
> thinking in terms of hacking regexps, but rather making a new match
> expander. For instance, you can destructure a list like so:
>
> (match '("foo" "-42.3" "bar")
>   [(list a (? string->number b) c) 'yay]
>   [else 'boo])
>
> So it would extend logically to this pseudocode:
>
> (match "foo-42.3bar"
>   [(string-append a (? string->number b) c) 'yay]
>   [else 'boo])
>

Yup! Exactly. I really had `match` in mind. I'm not sure why you wouldn't
use regexes underneath though. As you have it, you'd be forced to call
`string->number` on every subsequence, where as constructing a regex with
grouping seemingly does this in effectively 1 pass (with possible back
tracking of course).

Still, the idea is extremely solid, and I would use such a thing
constantly.

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Re: [racket-users] racket users fight for their right to colon keywords

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Jay McCarthy 
wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Leif Andersen 
> wrote:
>
> > I am genuinely surprised :keyword saw so much support and that change
>> was so attractive to people.
>>
>> That's because of the questions you asked. I saw those questions and said
>> to myself: "Self, I don't care enough about this debate enough to even
>> really fill out these questions." (Although if you had a spot on the pull
>> for the question: "I don't care about this at all, just don't break my
>> code", I would have filled that out.)
>>
>
> I'm interested in your elaboration. I expected someone with your opinion
> to vote something like 5/5/0 because you don't care between the two, but
> don't want a change.
>

Interestingly, a 5 is slightly more negative of 'neutral' in your model of
1-10, than 6, which would be slightly more positive than 'neutral'. I
wonder how many people picked 5 to be completely neutral, not realizing
this subtlety. I guess, the question for me comes down to, "is the volume
in question 1 more towards hate?" Or, assuming that some portion of '5's
recognized the subtlety and were slightly negative of 'neutral', and the
others truly meant 'neutral', it's a dead heat.

(shrug)

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Re: [racket-users] Re: racket users fight for their right to colon keywords

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Jack Firth  wrote:

> Perhaps it would have been better phrased as "Which do you prefer,
> #:keyword or :keyword?" with options like "strongly prefer x", "prefer x",
> "indifferent", "prefer y", "strongly prefer y", rather than two different
> 1-10 scales.
>

While I agree that this might have been better, I've never, prepared a
survey before where the questions were perfect, and I didn't think of some
optimization *after the fact* about how to phrase them better, or get
better data.

Surely there are books about this subject. Does anyone have any
recommendations for future self?


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Re: [racket-users] Macro that does substitution

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu
wrote:


 On Jul 29, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Klaus Ostermann wrote:

  Thanks, Matthew and Matthias. The service on this mailing list is
 incredible!
 
  I know it is not cbn because it is local, but a better name didn't come
 to my mind and it is what I need to solve my problem.


 It's not about locality, the problem is that it runs the thunks at the
 wrong time.

 Example:

   (let ((x (/ 1 0)))
 ((lambda (y) (displayln `(hello world)))
  x))

 in CBN would _first_ show hello-world and then raise the exception but
 your let-cbn will raise the exception first and never display anything on
 the output port.


I'm confused. Why would this raise an exception? x is never in strict
position, as `y` is unused in the lambda. But, I could simply be missing
something, and if so, please ignore. :)

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Re: [racket-users] http connection errors on pkg-build

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Possibly related? http://pkg-build.racket-lang.org/doc/pollen fails with a 403 
forbidden. Maybe some s3 permissions changed?

On August 1, 2015 8:54:11 AM PDT, Matthew Butterick m...@mbtype.com wrote:
For the last couple of days my pollen builds have failed with this
connection failed error. I don't see any other packages failing to
download from GitHub, suggesting it's my fault. OTOH the supposedly
defective URL works fine, so I'm not sure how to make the build server
happier.

Downloading
https://github.com/mbutterick/pollen/tarball/c62bdbbe7233c5190628731725ba9169bc2cb067
tcp-connect: connection failed
  detail: host not found
  address: github.com
  port number: 443
  step: 1
  system error: Name or service not known; errno=-2

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[racket-users] Intro Projects

[Andrew Gwozdziewycz]

Hi All,

What is the current status of the intro projects wiki page at (
https://github.com/plt/racket/wiki/Intro-Projects)? Is it kept current? I'm
looking for ways to contribute to the community, and to better get my feet
wet. I have a few random project ideas that, while interesting to me, are
probably of limited value to the community as a whole.

Would rather spend my copious amounts of free time contributing to the
greater good...

Cheers,

Andrew


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