date:20101223

Thomas:

Stem extenders have worked very well for me, especially on the older,
26 inch mountain bikes that I've converted to all-around duty...  Even
the larger frames seem too small if you're over 6 feet tall, and often
require a few more inches of handlebar height.  It's an inexpensive
solution, and can instantly transforms an otherwise small bike into a
comfortable rider.  Of course I'd prefer to have a larger frame where
I don't require an extender.  Fortunately I have that in my 60cm
Bombadil.

Do you feel your Sam needs the extra height for you to be
comfortable?  If so, I'm curious... how do you think the extender
solution works vs say, going with a larger frame?

BB


On Dec 22, 4:34 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net
wrote:
 Perhaps few people see this as worth trying. I don't know. But I
 generally prefer high handlebars.

 I have used the Bullmoose bar in its natural state. And I enjoyed it.
 And I will enjoy it again, since even this change of cockpit is not
 that difficult.

 Tallmoose

 http://db.tt/MU0INvphttp://db.tt/pl7MPB6http://db.tt/Zva1PoDhttp://db.tt/HETHGfW

 It's more difficult than my normal changes, since I only have one
 Bullmoose bar setup and I change brake/shifter cables to accommodate
 the extra height. On the to-do list is to cut down the cables I'm
 currently using for the Tallmoose cockpit; they're too long as they
 are. But even after the cut-down I'll want to keep different sets for
 the Shortmoose and Tallmoose arrangements. I don't like tight or
 excess cables. Unless somehow it accommodates a bag placement.
 Hmmm the endless tweaking is definitely part of the fun!

 Yours,
 Thomas Lynn Skean

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[RBW] Brooks Saddles in Assorted Colors

My favorite saddle is the honey B17... I love how it gradually turns
to a rich brownish color.  I also love the antique brown, but they
seem much harder to find in a standard B17 (which is a real bummer).
I'm also intrigued by the Colored Limited Edition saddles (Swift, Pro,
Swallow), especially the blue color, but never pulled the trigger,
worried that I wouldn't like the Swift or Team... neither of which
have ventilation holes (which I have come to appreciate on the B17).
I had hoped Brooks would one day produce B17s in funky colors.  (I
already have a green B17 Special, which most people mistake for
black).

Well, that all changed... I just saw the electric blue B17 standard,
which must have only recently become available... I immediately
ordered one for my custom dark blue Stumpjumper.  I can't wait to see
it up close and wonder how it will break in... I hope it doesn't get
too dark.

Anyone hear of any other new colors being introduced to the B17 line?

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Saddles in Assorted Colors

2010-12-23 Thread Lee

I noticed that Wallingford has the newly colorized B-17s (there might
also be a blurb about them on their blog):

http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/unsprung-saddles/b17-standard

Best,
Lee
San Francisco, CA


On Dec 23, 6:55 am, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com
wrote:
 My favorite saddle is the honey B17... I love how it gradually turns
 to a rich brownish color.  I also love the antique brown, but they
 seem much harder to find in a standard B17 (which is a real bummer).
 I'm also intrigued by the Colored Limited Edition saddles (Swift, Pro,
 Swallow), especially the blue color, but never pulled the trigger,
 worried that I wouldn't like the Swift or Team... neither of which
 have ventilation holes (which I have come to appreciate on the B17).
 I had hoped Brooks would one day produce B17s in funky colors.  (I
 already have a green B17 Special, which most people mistake for
 black).

 Well, that all changed... I just saw the electric blue B17 standard,
 which must have only recently become available... I immediately
 ordered one for my custom dark blue Stumpjumper.  I can't wait to see
 it up close and wonder how it will break in... I hope it doesn't get
 too dark.

 Anyone hear of any other new colors being introduced to the B17 line?

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[RBW] Re: For Sale: Rivendell Road Standard F/F and headset

2010-12-23 Thread frank_a

In my flickr pictures, list member Campy Only made a comment that
rather than dust beneath the paint it may be rust. I meant to
reply to that but inadvertently deleted the comment (sorry Campy).
I know he's had a few old bikes restored/repainted and knows a bit
more about this than I do. I wanted to know what was going on under
there so I got a needle and poked the rough areas of the paint, near
the downtube bottle bosses and the spot on the top tube near the
headset. The paint flaked off without too much effort and there did
appear to be a bit of oxidation beginning. Luckily the tubes are fine
with no rust damage but the paint had been compromised. So the
description of the frame obviously would have to change as well as the
price.
 I'll suspend the sale for now and decide what I want to do. I may
just prime the areas and ride the bike as is, maybe repaint it
somewhere down the road or sell as is.
 Thanks to those who expressed interest.
- Frank


On Dec 21, 8:38 pm, frank_a fk...@aol.com wrote:
 Up for sale is my 1995/6 Waterford built Rivendell Road Standard, size
 59.5cm. I've owned this bike for about four years. I'm selling it
 because my Riv Custom is here and it was designed in many ways as a
 replacement. I've contemplated keeping it, just because, but it makes
 sense to move on.
  It's in great shape structurally but the original Waterford paint job
 wasn't so great (there are dust particles beneath the paint). There
 are some chips and scratches at the expected places, most of them were
 present when I bought the frame. There was a seat stay mounted chain
 hanger which is no longer there and the bare steel in that spot has
 been coated with clear nail polish. There are no dents or dings and
 the bike rides beautifully.
  This frame is built with Grant's custom spec'd Reynolds 753 steel
 with 531 fork blades (cool bi-plane fork crown too) . The lug set was
 designed by Richard Sachs. The very early readers chronicle the
 development of these frames, it's a good read.
  This frame has nice tire clearance and fits the Grand Bois 30's which
 actually measure out a bit larger. I've also run the old Pasela 35's
 (actual 32) with room to spare but it will not take a Jack Brown. I've
 never run it with fenders so I don't know about tire sizes with
 fenders.
  Asking price is $930.00 if it's Paypal or $900.00 if a U.S. Postal
 money order plus actual shipping ~UPS ground.
 Here's a link to a photo set:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8531...@n06/sets/72157625645908462/

  The geometry is listed in the flickr text along with a few notes. If
 you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
  Thanks,
  - Frank

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[RBW] Re: PICS of different new Sam

2010-12-23 Thread Earl Grey

Sweet, though how one could pay extra NOT to get the orange, I don't
understand. :) Love the bar tape.

To get more accurate color, set the white balance on your camera not
to Auto but to the appropriate setting for the light. In this case,
to shade (the little house and shadow symbol). The only problem is
remembering to change it when the light changes. Or shoot in raw, in
which case you can adjust the white balance easily and perfectly in
the computer.

Cheers,

Gernot


On Dec 22, 9:40 pm, jim phillips thefamil...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Hi Norman,
   Now that is one Gorgeous bicycle!! Beautiful!!

 best,

 JimP



  Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:21:31 -0800
  Subject: [RBW] PICS of different new Sam
  From: norr...@gmail.com
  To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

  I also received a new Sam (52) last week and put it together and rode
  it for the first time on Sunday. It was a short ride but it is a huge
  improvement over anything I've ridden before. Things are a little
  hectic and cold right now but I'm looking forward to going all out
  with it. On the other hand, I sort of want to keep it in its pristine
  condition for a little while. I have Grand Bois Hetre 42mm tires
  (it's a 650B) and am thinking about getting VO 52 Zeppelin polished
  fenders. The bar tape was not my first choice but Newbaum grey was
  out. I've got some mixed reaction on the color combo but I more like
  it than not. It should make the bike stand out at the Riv Ride East
  in May. The color of the bike is closer to green (it's the Atlantic
  green) than the blue it sometimes appears in these photos. It is a
  great color:http://www.flickr.com/photos/norro/sets/72157625647582676/.
  Hope the link works.
  Norman

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[RBW] Re: Bullmoose on steerer extender

2010-12-23 Thread Thomas Lynn Skean

Hi!

In short, I prefer the largest frame I can straddle comfortably, as
long as the top tube length isn't crazy, relatively speaking. The top
top tube on the 60cm is right there when I straddle it. It feels
perfect. Which means there's a little extra room for psychological
comfort. I could probably still straddle a 61cm comfortably, and
*maybe* a 62cm. Would that they existed! I don't imagine I could
straddle a 64cm Hillborne. I know I wouldn't be comfortable on it for
the riding I do; too much stop-n-go for a bike that I'd have to
dismount oh-so-carefully. So the 60cm is the right Hillborne for me.

In general, on my Hillborne I don't need an extender. I use a Dirt
Drop for the Moustache, Albatross, and Noodle bar cockpits and those
are fine. I don't even max out the height except on the Noodle. In
fact, I'm not sure there's room for an extender (or at least this
particular extender) for any of those, except *maybe* the Noodle.

With the Bullmoose, it is okay without the extender. I'm definitely
going to maintain the ability to use it that way. It has its own kind
of excitement. Probably not an arrangement I'd choose to have on an
all-day-or-two ride. But definitely fun.

But the Bullmoose was also inherently low enough that I knew there was
room for an extender. Since I had one, I thought I'd give it a shot
and see what it was like. The resulting Tallmoose bar is probably a
little higher than when I ride with my still-default Albatross
cockpit. Maybe I'll lower Tallmoose some. But it is interesting how
the extra width and different wrist angle and additional forward lean
changes the feel of the ride from the Albatross. So I'm keeping
Tallmoose too. Like the Albatross and the Moustache, I could ride it
perfectly comfortably all day for days. With the standard Bullmoose
(and interestingly, with the Noodle) I'd probably want to pause and
reset my posture every so often on a ride of that ilk. The lean, the
wrist position, or both would make me want to sort of shake out my
upper body periodically.

I've never had anything I'd call discomfort with any of these bars,
even after a few hours of riding. And while the 60cm may not be the
*perfect* fit considering my bar height preferences alone, the fact is
that the standover height, the saddle height, the effective top-tube
length, the look and feel of the frame under me while riding do seem
perfect. On a hypothetical 61cm or 62cm I expect an extra cm or so of
effective top tube length would be okay but no better than my 60cm.
And perhaps the standard Bullmoose bar being able to be higher would
work a tad better for longer distances. But I am truly very very happy
on my 60cm. Shy of an actual custom, I don't expect a better fitting
bike exists.

In fact, my current notion of a dream custom would be a 61cm double-
top-tube Hillborne with the effective top tube length of my current
bike. Perhaps another modification I'd want would be a lower water-
bottle placement on the seat tube and an *appropriately-placed* braze-
on for a front derailer. Oh, and Joe Bell paint job; same orange,
actually, but with more fancy lug-work and a cream head-tube. All very
pretty. But not worth the soon-to-be $2,250 bump in price to me.

So the current hopes (as opposed to dreams) are a SimpleOne and/or
a Foy. And losing about 20-40 pounds.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean
On Dec 23, 6:16 am, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Thomas:

 Stem extenders have worked very well for me, especially on the older,
 26 inch mountain bikes that I've converted to all-around duty...  Even
 the larger frames seem too small if you're over 6 feet tall, and often
 require a few more inches of handlebar height.  It's an inexpensive
 solution, and can instantly transforms an otherwise small bike into a
 comfortable rider.  Of course I'd prefer to have a larger frame where
 I don't require an extender.  Fortunately I have that in my 60cm
 Bombadil.

 Do you feel your Sam needs the extra height for you to be
 comfortable?  If so, I'm curious... how do you think the extender
 solution works vs say, going with a larger frame?

 BB

 On Dec 22, 4:34 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net
 wrote:

  Perhaps few people see this as worth trying. I don't know. But I
  generally prefer high handlebars.

  I have used the Bullmoose bar in its natural state. And I enjoyed it.
  And I will enjoy it again, since even this change of cockpit is not
  that difficult.

  Tallmoose

 http://db.tt/MU0INvphttp://db.tt/pl7MPB6http://db.tt/Zva1PoDhttp://db...

  It's more difficult than my normal changes, since I only have one
  Bullmoose bar setup and I change brake/shifter cables to accommodate
  the extra height. On the to-do list is to cut down the cables I'm
  currently using for the Tallmoose cockpit; they're too long as they
  are. But even after the cut-down I'll want to keep different sets for
  the Shortmoose and Tallmoose arrangements. I don't like tight or
  excess cables. Unless somehow it

[RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here  
in Northern Calif.


I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in  
persistent rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.


I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky  
clears.


Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof  
Schwalbes?


-JimD

must get splats!



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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Seth Vidal

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here in
 Northern Calif.
 I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in persistent
 rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.
 I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky clears.
 Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof
 Schwalbes?

A little rubbing alcohol or peroxide seems to clean the grime off the
sidewalls just fine.

-sv

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Saddles in Assorted Colors

Thanks, Lee!!!

WOW, it's like being presented with a candy dish...
Those are ALL beautiful... I'll bet each one will darken very
nicely... especially that green...oh boy...  The orange appears (at
least from the pictures) more like a burnt orange or even a light
brown... And it's nice to see Antique Brown among the choices.  Gee, I
should grab a handful... :)

BB

On Dec 23, 10:20 am, Lee leec...@gmail.com wrote:
 I noticed that Wallingford has the newly colorized B-17s (there might
 also be a blurb about them on their blog):

 http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/unsprung-saddles/b17-standard

 Best,
 Lee
 San Francisco, CA

 On Dec 23, 6:55 am, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com
 wrote:



  My favorite saddle is the honey B17... I love how it gradually turns
  to a rich brownish color.  I also love the antique brown, but they
  seem much harder to find in a standard B17 (which is a real bummer).
  I'm also intrigued by the Colored Limited Edition saddles (Swift, Pro,
  Swallow), especially the blue color, but never pulled the trigger,
  worried that I wouldn't like the Swift or Team... neither of which
  have ventilation holes (which I have come to appreciate on the B17).
  I had hoped Brooks would one day produce B17s in funky colors.  (I
  already have a green B17 Special, which most people mistake for
  black).

  Well, that all changed... I just saw the electric blue B17 standard,
  which must have only recently become available... I immediately
  ordered one for my custom dark blue Stumpjumper.  I can't wait to see
  it up close and wonder how it will break in... I hope it doesn't get
  too dark.

  Anyone hear of any other new colors being introduced to the B17 line?- Hide 
  quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Allan in Portland

I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few weeks now.
Anyone ever tried petroleum jelly as a sidewall prophylactic? I'm
thinking something that would fill the rubber pores and coat the
surface with a hyrdophobic layer would be perfect for keeping the
aluminum slurry from accumulating on sidewalls. Hmm, now that I write
it down, it sounds a like a pretty good product idea -- Phil's
Sidewall Protectant.

-Allan

On Dec 23, 9:11 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
  I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here in
  Northern Calif.
  I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in persistent
  rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.
  I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky clears.
  Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof
  Schwalbes?

 A little rubbing alcohol or peroxide seems to clean the grime off the
 sidewalls just fine.

 -sv

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread rperks

PJ would probably eat the rubber, not a good combo.  There are latex
products for protecting tubular tires, but not easy to come by.  I
experimented with theatrical liqud latex, but it was hard to keep off
the rims and dried with a tacky finish.  On the plus side after a
month and a half it pealed right off and the sidewalls looked new.
Next time I try it I might give it a dusting of Talc once it dries.

As for the gray sludge- soap, water and a scrub brush.  The sidewall
will always have a little beausage, but that looks better in my eye
than the crisp tan of a new tire.

Rob
-
http://oceanaircycles.com/


On Dec 23, 9:39 am, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote:
 I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few weeks now.
 Anyone ever tried petroleum jelly as a sidewall prophylactic? I'm
 thinking something that would fill the rubber pores and coat the
 surface with a hyrdophobic layer would be perfect for keeping the
 aluminum slurry from accumulating on sidewalls. Hmm, now that I write
 it down, it sounds a like a pretty good product idea -- Phil's
 Sidewall Protectant.

 -Allan

 On Dec 23, 9:11 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:



  On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
   I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here in
   Northern Calif.
   I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in 
   persistent
   rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.
   I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky clears.
   Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof
   Schwalbes?

  A little rubbing alcohol or peroxide seems to clean the grime off the
  sidewalls just fine.

  -sv- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread james black

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:08, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in persistent
 rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.

I consider those grey sidewalls to be a badge of honor, a natural sign
of actual usage. Your preferences might vary.

When I was a child skateboarder, you could tell the real skaters by
whether the paint was worn off the tail of their skateboard deck (we
all used plastic rails on the middle part of the deck, but those
rails are out of fashion). I remember stories of poseurs who would
take a belt sander to the skateboard decks to rapidly achieve this
broken-in look. Not unlike the dumbass $200 jeans sold today with the
fake distress. I prefer to buy my workwear jeans in dark indigo for
$20 a pair; they look nicely broken in after just a few years of
regular wearing.

I should bottle and sell a compound that instantly turns your
sidewalls a studly mottled grey!

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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[RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again


For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful  
Rivendell bicycles.


Boy was I wrong.

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.  
Couldn't get around to

chasing down the appropriate hardware.
Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.


Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine  
screws, nut, and washers.
If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some  
fantastic technical innovation.

Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!
Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a  
blinky light bracket.

I'll have to post pictures.

-JimD

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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread David Faller

I don't see why under-maintaining one's bike, car, whatever, is a badge 
of honor.  A skateboard is a pretty low-tech piece of equipment that's 
designed and built for abuse.  My $3,000 bike and it's $100 tires are 
worthy of some upkeep.


On 12/23/2010 10:06 AM, james black wrote:

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:08, JimDrasterd...@comcast.net  wrote:

I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in persistent
rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.

I consider those grey sidewalls to be a badge of honor, a natural sign
of actual usage. Your preferences might vary.

When I was a child skateboarder, you could tell the real skaters by
whether the paint was worn off the tail of their skateboard deck (we
all used plastic rails on the middle part of the deck, but those
rails are out of fashion). I remember stories of poseurs who would
take a belt sander to the skateboard decks to rapidly achieve this
broken-in look. Not unlike the dumbass $200 jeans sold today with the
fake distress. I prefer to buy my workwear jeans in dark indigo for
$20 a pair; they look nicely broken in after just a few years of
regular wearing.

I should bottle and sell a compound that instantly turns your
sidewalls a studly mottled grey!

James Black
Los Angeles, CA



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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread james black

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:20, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote:
 I don't see why under-maintaining one's bike, car, whatever, is a badge of
 honor.  A skateboard is a pretty low-tech piece of equipment that's designed
 and built for abuse.  My $3,000 bike and it's $100 tires are worthy of some
 upkeep.

Does the muck on the sidewalls lead to reduced tire longevity?

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread David Faller


Sounds like a good test for Jan Heine!

On 12/23/2010 10:25 AM, james black wrote:

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:20, David Fallerdfal...@charter.net  wrote:

I don't see why under-maintaining one's bike, car, whatever, is a badge of
honor.  A skateboard is a pretty low-tech piece of equipment that's designed
and built for abuse.  My $3,000 bike and it's $100 tires are worthy of some
upkeep.

Does the muck on the sidewalls lead to reduced tire longevity?

James Black
Los Angeles, CA



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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Lynne Fitz

In my experience, they never look quite the same again.  But a squirt
of Simple Green in a bucket of hot soapy water goes a long way.  With
a scrub brush or Scrubbie.

Lynne F

On Dec 23, 9:08 am, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here  
 in Northern Calif.

 I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in  
 persistent rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.

 I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky  
 clears.

 Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof  
 Schwalbes?

 -JimD

 must get splats!

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Bill Gibson

Execution is everything, but I suspect that not all zip ties are equal. UV
light will take a toll on the plastic, some kinds more than others, so be
vigilant and carry spares. While not in the league with fully integrated
design and the custom hardware fashioned by the great French Constructeurs
and secured with fine leather and beeswax, if I change up my setup
regularly, for fun or adaptations, they are good enough and pretty good.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful
Rivendell bicycles.

Boy was I wrong.

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki. Couldn't
get around to
chasing down the appropriate hardware.
Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine
screws, nut, and washers.
If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some fantastic
technical innovation.
Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!
Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a blinky
light bracket.
I'll have to post pictures.

-JimD

--
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

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Re: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread nawrock

I have had good results with a solution of simple green, water and some type of 
small brush.  So far this fall/winter we have had very little precipitation, so 
no cleaning needed (yet). 
Dave Nawrocki 
Fort Collins, CO 

- Original Message - 
From: JimD rasterd...@comcast.net 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:08:30 AM 
Subject: [RBW] Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems 

I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here in 
Northern Calif. 

I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in persistent 
rainy conditions they turn mucky gray. 

I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky clears. 

Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof 
Schwalbes? 

-JimD 

must get splats! 

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Angus

Jim,

I have not been able to get the gray stuff off tan sidewalls.
Scrubbing with a stiff brush with warm water and soap certainly helps
but doesn't get it all.

I have not noticed a reduction in tire life due to the grey stuff on
the tires, I have worn down the tread of tires with tan turned to gray
sidewalls.

I also view this as a badge or honor / sign of actual use and don't
consider it neglected maintenance (I cleaned the bike...it just didn't
all come off).

I know people who ride many miles and keep their bicycles looking as
new...I admire them for it; I know people who ride many miles and
their bicycles show the signs of those miles...I admire them for that
too.  I will extract every useful penny of life out of my bicycle
components...I'm going for beausage...I've seen too many bicycles/cars
that were perfect with owners that were afraid of using them.  It
seems to work for them, but not for me.

Angus

On Dec 23, 11:08 am, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here  
 in Northern Calif.

 I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in  
 persistent rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.

 I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky  
 clears.

 Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof  
 Schwalbes?

 -JimD

 must get splats!

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic
tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair,
OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

RGZ

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Bill Gibson bill.bgib...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful
Rivendell bicycles.

Boy was I wrong.

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki. Couldn't
get around to
chasing down the appropriate hardware.
Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a blinky
light bracket.
I'll have to post pictures.

-JimD

--
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

I like the look of tan sidewalls when they're new. Being that it rains
so much here in Portland they don't stay clean for long. I've grown
use to the look of black sidewalls. In fact, I'm really quite fond of
Schwalbes and as soon as RBW gets Marathon Supremes back in stock I'll
be putting a pair of 35s on my Hilsen and the standard Marathons that
are on it back on my QB. I like that the Schwalbes have a reflective
strip.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

I'm fine with zipties. They work well and I can't see them when I'm
actually riding the bike. I do wish they were reused.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/4635658276/in/set-72157624126049816/

Zipties? What zipties? I don't see know stinking zipties!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/4855266524/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/4854649341/

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread erik jensen

i'd wager the set of hack bicycles with zip ties get ridden more.

do what works, do what lets you get out and ride quickly and easily.

stop bemoaning zip-ties, i think we all get the point and some of us think
it's absolutely silly and even profoundly status-oriented to eliminate
simplicity just because you have a +/- $4000.00 bike. i'd wager plenty
here bought rivendells for their fit, form, function; care little about such
nonsense; and don't obsess about such trivialities.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:16 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.comwrote:

RGZ

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Bill Gibson bill.bgib...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful
Rivendell bicycles.

Boy was I wrong.

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
Couldn't get around to
chasing down the appropriate hardware.
Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine
screws, nut, and washers.
If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some
fantastic technical innovation.
Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!
Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a
blinky light bracket.
I'll have to post pictures.

-JimD

--
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

--
oakland, ca
bikenoir.blogspot.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riding posture - advice appreciated

2010-12-23 Thread erik jensen

if reach is the problem, move the handlebars back and up.

moving the saddle forward to fix reach/back problems is no-no #1, imho.

but i agree with many here; the OP's solution lies in yoga, stretching and
repetition of the mantra belly button to the top tube--all of this helped
me, too.

cheers,

erik

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Ken Freeman kenfreeman...@gmail.comwrote:

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote:

Cheers,

Gernot

On Dec 21, 11:55 am, rob markwardt robmar...@hotmail.com wrote:
My advice would be to stop looking at pictures of yourself riding:)

--
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

--
oakland, ca
bikenoir.blogspot.com

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Allan in Portland

If zip ties were covered by a patent and cost 6 bucks a pair people
would be raving over them like bee's knees.

In keeping with the sidewall thread, maybe some one needs to invent
some brass zip ties... Phil's Brassy Ties.

Merry Christmas,
-Allan

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 10:14 -0800, JimD wrote:
 
 I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
 Couldn't get around to  chasing down the appropriate hardware.
 Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.  
 

A Saluki will fit fenders properly with no hacking involved.  Bridges
are correctly placed for a good fender line and there are fittings for
fender mounts.  Everything fits as it should do, and there's really no
need for crude hacks on this frame.  Do it right, you'll feel much
better for it.





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[RBW] 54 Quickbeam in Seattle

2010-12-23 Thread rcnute

FYI.  http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/2126769822.html

Ryan

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Patrick in VT

On Dec 23, 1:03 pm, rperks perks@gmail.com wrote:
 There are latex products for protecting tubular tires, but not easy to come 
 by.

aquaseal is popular with folk that ride cx tubulars in the muck -
http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/ducysise.html.

it can be found at diving shops, outdoor apparel stores, some hardware
stores and a zillion places online.  it works reasonably well to
protect the cotton/silk casing of $140 tires, but I wouldn't use it on
a clincher just to keep things looking clean.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread EricP

Have been running zip ties for mud flaps on my Sam Hillborne since it
was new.  Actually prefer them to screws on plastic fenders.

Then again, the bike doesn't even have matching mudflaps.  So am not
the fashionista with this.

Back in the 1980's Moots designed their mountain bike fenders to be
mounted with zip ties.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 23, 2:09 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 10:14 -0800, JimD wrote:

  I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
  Couldn't get around to  chasing down the appropriate hardware.
  Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.  

 A Saluki will fit fenders properly with no hacking involved.  Bridges
 are correctly placed for a good fender line and there are fittings for
 fender mounts.  Everything fits as it should do, and there's really no
 need for crude hacks on this frame.  Do it right, you'll feel much
 better for it.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Beth H

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
 With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
 ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic
 tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp repair,
 OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a
job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence,
I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I
still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Allan in Portland

Thanks Patrick. $7 a tube ain't too bad. At the risk of validating
certain fob stereotypes, I think I might give it a try. :-)

Merry Christmas,
-Allan

On Dec 23, 12:30 pm, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Dec 23, 1:03 pm, rperks perks@gmail.com wrote:

  There are latex products for protecting tubular tires, but not easy to come 
  by.

 aquaseal is popular with folk that ride cx tubulars in the muck 
 -http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/ducysise.html.

 it can be found at diving shops, outdoor apparel stores, some hardware
 stores and a zillion places online.  it works reasonably well to
 protect the cotton/silk casing of $140 tires, but I wouldn't use it on
 a clincher just to keep things looking clean.

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread rperks

I have read that the aquseal is a bit thick and harder to apply, that
is why I went with the theatrical latex.  The latex dries translucent,
so the sidewalls still look tan.  Also, they do make clear but it cost
more.  You can find the latex at you local year round costume shops, I
happened to be working near LA when I found mine, no shortage of
theatrical stuff there.

One thing I have not tried is the Bleach White priduct used to get
whitewall tires on your car clean.  It would likely do OK, but I do
not care enough to try.

Rob
-
http://oceanaircycles.com/


On Dec 23, 12:46 pm, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote:
 Thanks Patrick. $7 a tube ain't too bad. At the risk of validating
 certain fob stereotypes, I think I might give it a try. :-)

 Merry Christmas,
 -Allan

 On Dec 23, 12:30 pm, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote:



  On Dec 23, 1:03 pm, rperks perks@gmail.com wrote:

   There are latex products for protecting tubular tires, but not easy to 
   come by.

  aquaseal is popular with folk that ride cx tubulars in the muck 
  -http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/ducysise.html.

  it can be found at diving shops, outdoor apparel stores, some hardware
  stores and a zillion places online.  it works reasonably well to
  protect the cotton/silk casing of $140 tires, but I wouldn't use it on
  a clincher just to keep things looking clean.- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: PICS of different new Sam

2010-12-23 Thread yoshi

Looks great!
I've got a green 52 with grand bois hetres and I absolutely love the
ride.

On Dec 23, 8:21 am, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sweet, though how one could pay extra NOT to get the orange, I don't
 understand. :) Love the bar tape.

 To get more accurate color, set the white balance on your camera not
 to Auto but to the appropriate setting for the light. In this case,
 to shade (the little house and shadow symbol). The only problem is
 remembering to change it when the light changes. Or shoot in raw, in
 which case you can adjust the white balance easily and perfectly in
 the computer.

 Cheers,

 Gernot

 On Dec 22, 9:40 pm, jim phillips thefamil...@hotmail.com wrote:







  Hi Norman,
    Now that is one Gorgeous bicycle!! Beautiful!!

  best,

  JimP

   Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:21:31 -0800
   Subject: [RBW] PICS of different new Sam
   From: norr...@gmail.com
   To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

   I also received a new Sam (52) last week and put it together and rode
   it for the first time on Sunday. It was a short ride but it is a huge
   improvement over anything I've ridden before. Things are a little
   hectic and cold right now but I'm looking forward to going all out
   with it. On the other hand, I sort of want to keep it in its pristine
   condition for a little while. I have Grand Bois Hetre 42mm tires
   (it's a 650B) and am thinking about getting VO 52 Zeppelin polished
   fenders. The bar tape was not my first choice but Newbaum grey was
   out. I've got some mixed reaction on the color combo but I more like
   it than not. It should make the bike stand out at the Riv Ride East
   in May. The color of the bike is closer to green (it's the Atlantic
   green) than the blue it sometimes appears in these photos. It is a
   great color:http://www.flickr.com/photos/norro/sets/72157625647582676/.
   Hope the link works.
   Norman

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[RBW] Want to trade technomic deluxe stem 25.4/11cm for 26/7-9cm

2010-12-23 Thread yoshi

I've got a nearly perfect condition nitto technomic deluxe stem with a
25.4mm clamp and 11cm length and I'm looking to trade it for one with
a 26mm clamp and 7-9cm length.
Thanks
Lee

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread rperks

I have been looking at all the pictures of the Saluki frames I could
find, and nowhere did I see the fittings for the mud flap.

On Dec 23, 12:09 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 10:14 -0800, JimD wrote:

  I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
  Couldn't get around to  chasing down the appropriate hardware.
  Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.  

 A Saluki will fit fenders properly with no hacking involved.  Bridges
 are correctly placed for a good fender line and there are fittings for
 fender mounts.  Everything fits as it should do, and there's really no
 need for crude hacks on this frame.  Do it right, you'll feel much
 better for it.

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

On Dec 23, 12:46 pm, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote:
  At the risk of validating certain fob stereotypes Merry Christmas,
 -Allan

When I think of a cycling fobs I always imagine Ignatius Jacques
Reilly pedaling along on an Albatrossed Atlantis with squealing
brakes, zip tied baskets and tweed bags all with signs of beausage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Confederacy_of_dunces_cover.jpg

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Oh, Ive got fenders, hammered Honjos, and they have been 'properly'
installed.

Jitensha Studio did the job and those folks don't hack.

I don't think I'd go so far as to use zip ties to install Honjo fenders.
Wouldn't be prudent, wouldn't be wise.

Plastic zip ties with aluminum wouldn't be the appropriate material.
Now when it comes to plastic fenders the zip ties could be just the
ticket.

-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 10:14 -0800, JimD wrote:

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
Couldn't get around to chasing down the appropriate hardware.
Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

A Saluki will fit fenders properly with no hacking involved. Bridges
are correctly placed for a good fender line and there are fittings for
fender mounts. Everything fits as it should do, and there's really no
need for crude hacks on this frame. Do it right, you'll feel much
better for it.

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[RBW] FS: 12cm Nitto lugged quill/stem

2010-12-23 Thread andrew hill

I have a mounted-once but otherwise unused 12cm Nitto lugged quill / stem for 
sale (I'm assuming this is a 12cm - it measures more like 12.5cm  c2c).

It's dull-brite like most of em.  In great shape - never actually ridden, 
just mounted for feel (and didn't work for me with m-bars).  Stem is 
unscratched/unmarked, quill has a faint line/scratch or two from being mounted, 
but I had it all the way up, pretty much, so doubt those will show for most 
people.  

$135 shipped, paypalled or $125 cash/pickup in west Los Angeles.

cheers,
andrew


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.

They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even
bailing wire.

-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time,
plastic
ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a
few basic
tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp
repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a
job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence,
I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I
still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Philip Williamson

The mudflaps look great. The zips are very understated (and lighter
than milk).
My only problem with zipties is I've had them get brittle and break,
so I don't trust them.

 Philip

 Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Dec 23, 10:14 am, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

 To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful  
 Rivendell bicycles.

 Boy was I wrong.

 I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.  
 Couldn't get around to
 chasing down the appropriate hardware.
 Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

 Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine  
 screws, nut, and washers.
 If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some  
 fantastic technical innovation.
 Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!
 Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

 Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a  
 blinky light bracket.
 I'll have to post pictures.

 -JimD

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[RBW] Re: Tan Sidewalls - Rain Problems

2010-12-23 Thread Philip Williamson

I've considered using latex paint on tan bike tire sidewalls. The
speedblends I had actually wore out the tread, and not the sidewall,
so I figured the painted coating protected them.
I like black tires. They last longer, they look better in the crud,
and they go with everything.

 Philip

 Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com



On Dec 23, 9:39 am, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.com wrote:
 I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few weeks now.
 Anyone ever tried petroleum jelly as a sidewall prophylactic? I'm
 thinking something that would fill the rubber pores and coat the
 surface with a hyrdophobic layer would be perfect for keeping the
 aluminum slurry from accumulating on sidewalls. Hmm, now that I write
 it down, it sounds a like a pretty good product idea -- Phil's
 Sidewall Protectant.

 -Allan

 On Dec 23, 9:11 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:







  On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
   I've been commuting on my Saluki through a series of rain storms here in
   Northern Calif.
   I like tires with tan sidewalls to my eye they look greatt but in 
   persistent
   rainy conditions they turn mucky gray.
   I'd sure like to know how people clean this stuff off once the sky clears.
   Maybe the answer is to switch from my col de la vies to some bombproof
   Schwalbes?

  A little rubbing alcohol or peroxide seems to clean the grime off the
  sidewalls just fine.

  -sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
 
 
 Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
 do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
 They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
world isn't going to change that.



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Thomas Lynn Skean

+1, Ms. H.

+1

(Though I might qualify that job with good-paying.)

When I first mounted a mud flap on a bicycle fender, it was a black
leather mud flap that I mounted with screws/washers/nuts/loc-tite.
Onto SKS (chromoplastic) fenders. One screw fell out after a couple
hundred miles of what would prove to be my typical riding. The zip
ties I replaced the screws/washers/nuts/loc-tite with have lasted over
5000 miles. Which if either solution deserves a perjorative?

And, though I love the look of metal fenders and am soon to try them
out, let us not pretend that metal fenders are uniformly better in
every way than chromoplastic or even normal plastic fenders.
(Chromo)plastic fenders have practical advantages. Metal has practical
advantages. Either is both a choice and a compromise.

Indeed, for my orange Hillborne, I went to the trouble of finding
*green* indoor/outdoor zip-ties to mount the olive mud flaps on my
chromoplastic fenders. Perhaps no one but me sees greenorange as a
better look than blackorange. But to me they really do look a lot
better. Black zip-ties are such a hack. :)

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

On Dec 23, 2:44 pm, Beth H periwinkle...@yahoo.com wrote:
 On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

  With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
  ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic
  tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp repair,
  OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

 I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a
 job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
 bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence,
 I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
 a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
 manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
 look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I
 still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
 it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
 well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
 worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

 While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
 fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
 because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
 those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

 I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

 Beth

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[RBW] Re: PICS of different new Sam

Behold HILLANTIS!!!

Very nice indeed.  Congrats!
BB

On Dec 23, 12:28 pm, yoshi leemu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Looks great!
 I've got a green 52 with grand bois hetres and I absolutely love the
 ride.

 On Dec 23, 8:21 am, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote:



  Sweet, though how one could pay extra NOT to get the orange, I don't
  understand. :) Love the bar tape.

  To get more accurate color, set the white balance on your camera not
  to Auto but to the appropriate setting for the light. In this case,
  to shade (the little house and shadow symbol). The only problem is
  remembering to change it when the light changes. Or shoot in raw, in
  which case you can adjust the white balance easily and perfectly in
  the computer.

  Cheers,

  Gernot

  On Dec 22, 9:40 pm, jim phillips thefamil...@hotmail.com wrote:

   Hi Norman,
     Now that is one Gorgeous bicycle!! Beautiful!!

   best,

   JimP

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:21:31 -0800
Subject: [RBW] PICS of different new Sam
From: norr...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

I also received a new Sam (52) last week and put it together and rode
it for the first time on Sunday. It was a short ride but it is a huge
improvement over anything I've ridden before. Things are a little
hectic and cold right now but I'm looking forward to going all out
with it. On the other hand, I sort of want to keep it in its pristine
condition for a little while. I have Grand Bois Hetre 42mm tires
(it's a 650B) and am thinking about getting VO 52 Zeppelin polished
fenders. The bar tape was not my first choice but Newbaum grey was
out. I've got some mixed reaction on the color combo but I more like
it than not. It should make the bike stand out at the Riv Ride East
in May. The color of the bike is closer to green (it's the Atlantic
green) than the blue it sometimes appears in these photos. It is a
great color:http://www.flickr.com/photos/norro/sets/72157625647582676/.
Hope the link works.
Norman

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread George Schick

I learned quickly when I began working in the telecom industry (over
40 years ago) that BLACK zip-ties are the ONLY ones that will remain
largely unaffected by weather and UV radiation.  All other colors
eventually fade, crack, and break.  That's also the reason why the
outer sheath on plastic insulated telephone cable is black.

On Dec 23, 4:13 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
wrote:
 The mudflaps look great. The zips are very understated (and lighter
 than milk).
 My only problem with zipties is I've had them get brittle and break,
 so I don't trust them.

  Philip

  Philip Williamsonwww.biketinker.com

 On Dec 23, 10:14 am, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

  For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

  To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful  
  Rivendell bicycles.

  Boy was I wrong.

  I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.  
  Couldn't get around to
  chasing down the appropriate hardware.
  Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.

  Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine  
  screws, nut, and washers.
  If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some  
  fantastic technical innovation.
  Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!
  Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

  Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a  
  blinky light bracket.
  I'll have to post pictures.

  -JimD

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:59 -0800, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote:
 
 And, though I love the look of metal fenders and am soon to try them
 out, let us not pretend that metal fenders are uniformly better in
 every way than chromoplastic or even normal plastic fenders.
 (Chromo)plastic fenders have practical advantages. Metal has practical
 advantages. Either is both a choice and a compromise.

Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?





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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Anne Paulson

And yet, what works better than zip ties to attach one of the huge
Rivendell Saddlesacks to a rear rack? As far as I can tell, those
beautiful big bags are designed for zip ties.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:16 AM, robert zeidler
zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
 With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
 ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic
 tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp repair,
 OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.
 RGZ

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My hovercraft is full of eels

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Very true. My comment was more about doing something right, so things don't
go hanging/falling off., etc., and somehow got all these defensive remarks.
These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will be
repaired more. I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and
fenders. It's hack work.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.comwrote:

And yet, what works better than zip ties to attach one of the huge
Rivendell Saddlesacks to a rear rack? As far as I can tell, those
beautiful big bags are designed for zip ties.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:16 AM, robert zeidler
zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few
basic
tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp
repair,
OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.
RGZ

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My hovercraft is full of eels

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[RBW] Re: Black Blue with a Mustache

2010-12-23 Thread Michael_S

looks very nice Andrew. The black goes nice with that beautiful icy
blue.  It seems like you could easily fit fenders on there too.
I had the same feeling when I got my new-to-me 58 Ram, I liked the fit
better than my 56 Sam ( now sold). The Rom/Ram are a much more lively
ride than the Sam's. The trade off is the dirt road/ camping/big tire
utility of the Sam.

~Mike~

..On Dec 23, 3:48 pm, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
 Here is a new (to me) Canti-Rom that I FINALLY got set up properly, with the 
 arrival of a shorter stem.  Took advantage of the first sunny day Socal has 
 seen in weeks to zip around for a while today and adjust everything to my 
 liking.  

 I resisted my typical urge to make every part silver, and instead aimed for 
 black where possible.  The parts are a mix - the kit was planned to contrast 
 a Sam I have that's setup as a slower bulletproof commuter/city bike.  

 This one weighs in at 24lbs (including Brooks team pro, MKS Sylvan single 
 sided pedals, and SaddleSacks XS).  Parks include a wide-Q 170mm stronglight 
 50/40/30, Neuvation M28 AeroX wheels, 30mm Schwalbe Mara Racers, lugged 
 seatpost and quill/stem, Kore Race Cantis and reverse levers.  I've got a 
 front canti-mount rack to install too, but haven't done it yet so it's not in 
 these pics.

 It feels AMAZINGLY different than my Sam - super easy to power up hills and a 
 whole lot faster and lighter.  I've got tons of hand-positions too with the 
 stoker grips on the M-bars - This 59cm Rom seems to be a better overall fit 
 than my 56 Sam (at 5'11, 84.5 pbh)  I'm really looking forward to putting 
 some training miles on this sprightly beast in Jan.  Something tells me I'll 
 be able to shave hours off the century time I made with the Sam last summer.  

 Now I just need to figure out why the left (front) Silver dt shifter seems to 
 gradually slip, requiring me to trim the der frequently.  I might need a new 
 front der, even.  The Shimano Sora seems to be a bit too narrow for the 
 triple, even though it's designed for one.  

 small, large, and über-large high-rez pics 
 here:http://salamander.net/stage/Black%26Blue/

 best,
 andrew

  lg_3.jpeg
 966KViewDownload

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey
bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist,
but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting
with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic.
Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a
comment on workmanship not status.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do
so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing
wire.
-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic

ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few
basic

tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Erik C



 Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
 fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?

I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Kelly Sleeper

Zip ties have a place and many viable uses.  A hack in one place, a good 
fastener in another.

Wouldn't using zips on the mud flap give more clearance for tires?  I know 
those lock nuts are limiting on my ahh.

Could be zips are even practical ... At times. 

H

Kelly

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well said.  Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey 
 bikes to get to the final build-up.  Not trying to appear as some elitist, 
 but it is what what is.  Grant uses these things because he's experimenting 
 with stuff.  I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic.  
 Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing?  It's a 
 comment on workmanship not status.
 
 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do 
 so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
 They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
 
 Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire.
 -JimD
 
 On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:
 
 On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
 With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
 ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic
 tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp repair,
 OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.
 
 I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a
 job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
 bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence,
 I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
 a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
 manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
 look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I
 still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
 it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
 well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
 worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.
 
 While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
 fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
 because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
 those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.
 
 I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.
 
 Beth
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Kelly Sleeper

Metal fenders front anyway are longer and will protect that light mounted in a 
mini rack.

Kelly

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Erik C erikdcarl...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
 fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?
 
 I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side.
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread erik jensen

robert,

for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the
need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting
zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this
list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of
the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring.

erik

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do
so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing
wire.
-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic

ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few
basic

tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 16:31 -0800, Erik C wrote:
 
  Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
  fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?
 
 I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side.

That appears to be a function of how well the metal fenders are mounted.
Plastic fenders eventually will crack.  Some well-mounted metal fenders
have lasted half a century; other, poorly mounted ones have failed
quickly.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:13 -0800, rperks wrote:
 I have been looking at all the pictures of the Saluki frames I could
 find, and nowhere did I see the fittings for the mud flap.

Mud flaps are mounted by bolting them to the bottom edge of the fender.
http://www.freewebs.com/palincss/angle_sideview_bag_street.jpg



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Not sure where the insult part comes in, I'm certainly not intentionally
insulting anyone, it's a free country. Let me explain further.

I've been reading this list forever also. People buy these bikes ($3K for a
custom), hang the finest components they can afford on them, and obsessively
discuss the most minute details. These are not Box-store specials (Yugo's),
they are a higher quality, hand-made object that will give hours/days/weeks,
etc of use/pleasure...whatever. Let's liken them a nicer auto (you pick).
Would you put, say, some garbage wheel cover on your better auto, the same
as you would on your Yugo? Probably not. It's not a status thing, for the
f-ing 5,000th time. It's a quality of workmanship thing. Wire-tie the
cables for your bike computer? Absolutely. Wire-tie a rack, or other
bolt-able, screw-able components as a permanent set-up because of some
aversion to drills or hand-tools, or work. I'm just not seeing it. Not a
big thing. Every mistake one can make wrenching a bicycle (or motorcycle
for that matter)-I've made 'em. Can't say as I liked doing that. That's
all bro.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote:

robert,

erik

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler
zeidler.rob...@gmail.comwrote:

Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are
pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some
elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's
experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up
with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare
thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do
so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing
wire.
-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic

ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few
basic

tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp
repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

The ones with zip-ties through the bosses. (Just kidding!)

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 16:31 -0800, Erik C wrote:
 
   Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
   fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?
 
  I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side.

 That appears to be a function of how well the metal fenders are mounted.
 Plastic fenders eventually will crack.  Some well-mounted metal fenders
 have lasted half a century; other, poorly mounted ones have failed
 quickly.



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Dec 23, 4:18 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

  These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will be
 repaired more.  I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and
 fenders.  It's hack work.

I don't see how a zip tied fender flap will lead to a bike getting
repaired more. The only Rivendell I had that broke (and was
subsequently repaired) had plastic fenders with appropriately attached
VO leather mud flaps. Perhaps it was the plastic fenders that caused
the frame to break?

All kidding aside, I know some people are fine with hack fixes and
others just want to do things right. I've used metal fenders,
correctly installed, with zip tied flaps and plastic fenders with
bolted on leather mud flaps and both seem to do a good job of keeping
crud off my feet and the frame. The only fender malfunction I had was
on a 300k brevet when a bracket on my fender came loose. This issue
has since been reolved by usign some Loctite.

When I first got a Wald basket for my Nitto mini front rack on my QB I
wasn't really that enthusiastic about attaching the basket with zip-
ties but it works fine.

I'm a randonneur and always have a few zip ties with me on brevets.

Grant once made a comment about his bikes being like him, slightly
disheveled. I like that. I'm certainly disheveled. My QB is definitely
disheveled. Right now the Homer is looking good but that'll change...

--mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

...and on that note, Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:

On Dec 23, 4:18 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will
be
repaired more. I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and
fenders. It's hack work.

I don't see how a zip tied fender flap will lead to a bike getting
repaired more. The only Rivendell I had that broke (and was
subsequently repaired) had plastic fenders with appropriately attached
VO leather mud flaps. Perhaps it was the plastic fenders that caused
the frame to break?

All kidding aside, I know some people are fine with hack fixes and
others just want to do things right. I've used metal fenders,
correctly installed, with zip tied flaps and plastic fenders with
bolted on leather mud flaps and both seem to do a good job of keeping
crud off my feet and the frame. The only fender malfunction I had was
on a 300k brevet when a bracket on my fender came loose. This issue
has since been reolved by usign some Loctite.

When I first got a Wald basket for my Nitto mini front rack on my QB I
wasn't really that enthusiastic about attaching the basket with zip-
ties but it works fine.

I'm a randonneur and always have a few zip ties with me on brevets.

Grant once made a comment about his bikes being like him, slightly
disheveled. I like that. I'm certainly disheveled. My QB is definitely
disheveled. Right now the Homer is looking good but that'll change...

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Philip Williamson


On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:

  Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
  do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
  They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

 Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

 And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
 world isn't going to change that.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...

 Philip

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again



Well the 'correct' use of zip ties involves purposeful, even tasteful,  
selection of color.


Otherwise, you are correct sir, it's just another hack.

-JimD
On Dec 23, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote:


But to me they really do look a lot
better. Black zip-ties are such a hack. :)


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again


One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir.
-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:


On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:



Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me  
to

do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.


Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
world isn't going to change that.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 18:03 -0800, JimD wrote:
 One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir.

Bottoms up!



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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Wow, would-a-thunk-it?

Zip ties vs nuts-n-bolts turns into a mac vs pc like kerfuffle?

I can only say I've come to have a whole new regard for zip ties after
trying them.

-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

And yet, what works better than zip ties to attach one of the huge
Rivendell Saddlesacks to a rear rack? As far as I can tell, those
beautiful big bags are designed for zip ties.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:16 AM, robert zeidler
zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time,
plastic
ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a
few basic
tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp
repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.
RGZ

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Ray Shine

Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one 
efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties?  
Pix to back it up?

From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:

  Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
  do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
  They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

 Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

 And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
 world isn't going to change that.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...

Philip

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread RayO

Tool kit of the ages: Duct tape, WD/40, magic marker, Leatherman multi-
tool and zip ties.

But my elitist leather mudflaps are attatched to my fancy pants
stainless steel fenders with
frou-frou hardware.

On Dec 23, 6:56 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one
 efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip 
 ties?  
 Pix to back it up?

 
 From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

 On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

  On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:

   Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
   do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
   They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

  Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

  And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
  world isn't going to change that.

 I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
 bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
 The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
 edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...

 Philip

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[RBW] How to shim a 1 1/4 threaded steerer for a 1 quill stem

2010-12-23 Thread Earl Grey

Someone on this list suggested I shim the steerer on my too small 1990
Fisher Sphinx so I can get the bars as high as on my Sam Hillborne,
because there don't seem to be any tall 1 1/4 stems available. How
would one actually go about doing that? Would this be solid enough for
off-road use? Could a sleeve be brazed into the (steel) steerer to
then accept a 1 quill? Is that the best option, or are there others?

Thanks!

Gernot

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[RBW] FS: 54cm Butterscotch canti AHH frameset. w/headset, paul brakes, nitto seatpost, $1100 shipped

2010-12-23 Thread Stephen

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37778...@n07/sets/72157625536602711/

sorry for the poor photos, yall know how hard it is to capture a
rivendell in pictures.

Its a re branded Saluki, with canti mounts.

All beat up, no dents. Comes with Paul brakes and Nitto seatpost. It's
as butterscotch as the first Salukis, though i dont know if those had
the same subtle sparkle as this custom color does. Of course the
photos don't do the color justice. Its butterscotch though, not any
variation of it.

I caught the right front brake arm in my wheel, stupidly. It's bent,
but works fine, sometimes too well.

AND i broke a screw off in the left side fender braze on. That sucks.

All put together, you don't notice the paint chips, really. I rode it
down the coast of California last year, and between the rides and the
disassemblies, it got scratched up. I never thought in a million years
i would sell it, so i just rode the hell out of it. I also never
thought i would by a Rivendell too small. I did, and 2 years later I'm
ready to admit it. So here you go!

Contact me off the list with questions and such,

~Stephen

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[RBW] FS: 650b Velocity Synergy/White Industries Eno rear wheel $200

2010-12-23 Thread Stephen

I don't have photos, but its a wonderful wheel.  Its the newer hub
model, so you have to use the White Industries splined cog.  It comes
with a 15 tooth cog.  All silver, 32 holes.  The rim is NOT offset.  I
dont remember the spoke details. I'm sure theyre fine.  $200 shipped.
Contact off list

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread PATRICK MOORE

I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties
if you can find something that works and looks better without (third
condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop
rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly
sturdier and, IME, look better in most places.

Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill
(What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to
the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that
and dress them up accordingly.

OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene
Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course
-- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better
off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively
good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits.

There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now
I feel better.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote:
 robert,

 for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the
 need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting
 zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this
 list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of
 the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring.

 erik

 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Well said.  Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are
 pricey bikes to get to the final build-up.  Not trying to appear as some
 elitist, but it is what what is.  Grant uses these things because he's
 experimenting with stuff.  I've never received any bike from them built-up
 with plastic.  Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare
 thing?  It's a comment on workmanship not status.

 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

 Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do
 so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
 They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
 Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing
 wire.
 -JimD
 On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

 On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote:

 With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic

 ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few
 basic

 tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp
 repair,

 OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

 I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a
 job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
 bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence,
 I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
 a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
 manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
 look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I
 still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
 it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
 well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
 worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

 While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
 fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
 because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
 those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

 I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

 Beth

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 --
 oakland, ca
 bikenoir.blogspot.com

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 RBW

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread PATRICK MOORE

Toe straps, of course. What else? -- So much more elegant. (Sorry,
no pix -- my last basket went out the door some five years ago; but
trust me ...)

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one
 efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip
 ties?  Pix to back it up?

 
 From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again


 On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:

  Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
  do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
  They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

 Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

 And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
 world isn't going to change that.

 I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
 bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
 The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
 edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...

 Philip

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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Kelly Sleeper

Patrick,

Thank you for the below argument!!  Im quoting you to my wife as an
excuse to purchase the Poncho and Rain Hat on Riv which she thinks is
weird.. and I just quoted it to her verbally as I stated I needed it
for my mental well being.. saftey and individualism.

Owe ya a beer next one of these days.

Kelly


PATRICK MOORE wrote:
 -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better
 off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively
 good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread Michael DiBenedetto

^^^!Velcro!^^^

Michael DiBenedetto
www.lifeforcemassage.com
3190 Old Tunnel Rd. Suite C
Lafayette, CA. 94549
925-899-2785

On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one 
 efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip 
 ties?  Pix to back it up?
 
 From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
 
 
 On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
  On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
 
   Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
   do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
   They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
 
  Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.
 
  And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
  world isn't going to change that.
 
 I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
 bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
 The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
 edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...
 
 Philip
 
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[RBW] Input re: a Haqapillar build and Tyre Choice

2010-12-23 Thread climbthemtns

G'day to all and may you all have a wonderfully relaxing Holiday
experience.

The Hunq is getting painted now.  Should take delivery in the next
week or two.

I'm putting 26 wheels on it and am most curious to get input from the
group as to which tires would most match the riding terrain.

This is my all-rounder for a 16 mile round-trip commute to the office
(half of which is on bike trail and passes near the Riv shop) as well
as some off-road riding and overnight camping (mostly on Mt. Diablo).
The off-road riding will be mostly fire roads similar to those you see
in the Hunq video (I live 10 minutes or so from those fire roads and
the foothills of Diablo).

I was thinking about the Marathon Extremes 2.25 which I know is more
geared toward off-road riding.  I'm not concerned about how fast I get
from point A to point B when I'm commuting, so the size, weight isn't
a concern.  I have read and talked to Jay at Riv HQ that this
particular tire has a nice ridge in the middle that provides a little
less rolling resistance on pavement vs. other mtb bike off-road
tires.
I don't intend to fly down some of the steeper rutty fire roads or
get aggressive on curves or intend to be jumping over anything (except
the rare 20' rattle snake I have twice encountered :-)) crossing a
fire road.  More of a enjoy the scenery experience.!
Would the 2.25 be to knarly?
What other tyre options could I consider?

The other consideration would be which fenders to use?  If I were to
go with the 2.25, my options are pretty limited.  Since I'm not
getting aggressive off-road, I'm not too concerned about getting
something lodged causing an end-over.

TIA
Michael



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Well, once you get your mind right zip ties just might be the  
preferred solution in many

applications. Nuts, screws, and washers are so yesterday.
...as you can see, I'm converted.
-JimD

On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:15 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote:


I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties
if you can find something that works and looks better without (third
condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop
rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly
sturdier and, IME, look better in most places.

Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill
(What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to
the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that
and dress them up accordingly.

OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene
Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course
-- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better
off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively
good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits.

There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now
I feel better.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com  
wrote:

robert,

for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have  
felt the

need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting
zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been  
on this
list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with  
defense of

the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring.

erik

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com 


wrote:


Well said.  Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are
pricey bikes to get to the final build-up.  Not trying to appear  
as some
elitist, but it is what what is.  Grant uses these things because  
he's
experimenting with stuff.  I've never received any bike from them  
built-up
with plastic.  Geez why does everything have to become some class- 
warfare

thing?  It's a comment on workmanship not status.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net  
wrote:


Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for  
me to do

so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even  
bailing

wire.
-JimD
On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com  
wrote:


With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time,  
plastic


ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of  
a few

basic

tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a get-you-home or temp
repair,

OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack.

I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider  
with a

job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For  
evidence,
I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which  
showed

a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a  
word I
still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence  
because
it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that  
is

well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

2010-12-23 Thread grant

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

THIS---forget about the pro-Riv context or any associations---THIS
quote belongs in a coffee table book. I wish I'd said it, but I'm glad
to know the person who did. There's only one complicated word in it
(inventor), but it was necessary in this case.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

Jim,

At 09:08hrs you posted about cleaning tan sidewalls and suggested that
maybe you would switch to a tire with a black sidewall. Then at
10:14hrs you started this thread. Was this a calculated attack on the
sensibilities of some of the group members? Your first post kind of
sputtered but this one exploded! Who would have thought that something
as benign as a ziptie could bring so much angst to our community. By
history carbon bashing and trail have been the most divisive issues
but we crossed a line today. This aggression will not stand man.

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again