Re: [RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[Bill Lindsay]

Beautiful M.A.P. --> APPROVE
Three photos from the non-drive side --> DISAPPROVE
😉
Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[René Sterental]

Congratulations Reed! That bike was really meant for you!

René

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Wow, that sure is purty. I recommend getting a measurement on the seattube
> at the top of the toptube. I think you measured to the tip of the seat lug,
> which isn't a standard sizing location.
>
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[RBW] FS- 58cm NOS Betty Foy and 50cm Used 94 RB-T

[Abcyclehank]

Good question Dave.  
I should have made it clearer.
Betty Foy price is $1100 shipped anywhere CUSA. Of New Old Stock Frame Set in 
original box including cat art.
Rivendell Betty Frame Set includes inserted headset and bottom bracket. A 
non-inserted seatpost also included.

Frame buyer will have the option of buying a variety of parts needed to 
complete build.

Sincerely,
Ryan
West Michigan 49445

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[RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[Joe Bernard]

Wow, that sure is purty. I recommend getting a measurement on the seattube at 
the top of the toptube. I think you measured to the tip of the seat lug, which 
isn't a standard sizing location. 

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[RBW] Re: CSJ: Non-moose Boscos

[Joe Bernard]

Well there ya go. This might be good for some buyers, those wayback-and-wide 
Boscos are an acquired taste. It'll be cheaper to try a new bar this way. 

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Robert Liebermann]

MKS sylvans and clips or halfs only. Used looks ca. 1989-2004 (and used to 
proclaim 'the only real development in cycles since the derailleur'!) then 
decided I didn't need to be that tightly attached to bike anymore. 

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[RBW] Re: FS Bags, Racks, etc.

[Steve Butcher]

The Nitto R-10/Revelate Jerrycan package has sold.  All that remains is the 
VO Rackaleur and the Lesyne XL.  A hardy thank-you to everyone who has 
looked and especially to those who've made purchases!

On Sunday, July 24, 2016 at 7:47:14 PM UTC-5, Steve Butcher wrote:
>
> Hello, I'm offering for sale the following items I'm not using.  Photos 
> can be sent to interested buyers as needed.  
>
> 1.  Rivendell Saddlesack size medium olive in gently used condition with 
> extra pair of 15 inch Sackville buckle straps- $185.00
> 2.  Nitto R-10 rear rack with extra set of 42 cm stays-$100.00
> 3.  VO Randonneur Front Rack with decaleur kit for 1 inch threaded 
> stem-$90.00
> 4.  VO Rackaleur-$20.00
> 5.  Rivendell Silver Hupe-$20.00
> 6.  Revelate Designs-Jerrycan in digital camo for Regular frame (the 
> velcro on the frame strap has been trimmed to fit a narrow steel frame 
> tube)-$20.00
> 7.  Lesyne XL seat bag in black nylon-$20.00
> 8.  Nitto f-16 front handlebar hook bag supporter-$50.00
>
> All items are in very good condition and prices are plus shipping CONUS.  
> Please send me a PM if you have any questions.  Thanks for looking.  Steve.
>

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[RBW] Re: CSJ: Non-moose Boscos

[cam starnes]

The actual order page makes no mention of it, but this page notes the 2016 
batch is non-moose: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm. 

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[RBW] Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Ian Wilder]

I'm in the process of building up a Sam almost exactly like this! Beautiful!

Ian

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[RBW] FS- 58cm NOS Betty Foy and 50cm Used 94 RB-T

[Dave Redmon]

Re Betty Foy, are you offering frame and fork only, or the full bike? Pricing? 
--Dave in Kansas

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Re: [RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[Abcyclehank]

As Reed states half price is a good starting point on a used custom bike.  That 
said, I have no clue what a Bob Brown frame goes for new.
I also picked up one custom used and received a screaming deal. 
Yet I would quickly pay $1500 for a used 68cm Custom Rivendell frame set. Or up 
to $2500 for a complete bike.

Sincerely,
Ryan

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Re: [RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[Reed Kennedy]

Indeed, that is a gorgeous frame! I love the deep rich red. It's like the
color of a candy apple in a dream, just a little more red than is possible
in the real world.

I'll also contribute a short happy story about buying a used custom bike
because, well, I just bought one.

After reading through many an issue of Bicycle Quarterly I became enamored
of Jan Heine's Universal Recommended Bicycle (low trail, front load, flexy,
etc). I asked Jan about builders to consider, and he recommended Mitch at
MAP. I reached out to Mitch, who was wonderful, but said he was fully
booked and not even taking reservations for a while.

You can imagine how excited I was when I saw a MAP Randonneur posted to a
local list. And all the better, it turns out the fellow who had it built
shares my dimensions (height, PBH, saddle height) and had worked out his
dream bike over years of randonneuring and commissioning customs. After
scraping together money for a bit over a month I went for a test ride and
fell in love. I didn't even have to adjust the seat height. In the end I
was able to benefit from all the research and testing a same-sized fellow
had done. He designed a bike that almost undoubtedly fits me better than
one I would have designed myself.

Now, I would have spec'd 650B wheels, more modern brakes, and pannier
lowriders up front. But I'm happy to give those things up in order to have
this bike, today, and for about half price!

So don't give up hope! And keep an eye out for similar sized folks!

For the curious, here's the new-to-me bike:
https://goo.gl/photos/cXWTnxCCiJdJmtfw7
https://goo.gl/photos/TLeGdKpToUcCqLJ77
https://goo.gl/photos/mRD6dYcfRKbvDQz37


Reed

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Abcyclehank  wrote:

> Sean,
> That is a beautiful custom lugged frame.  Although others have cited the
> issues of customs not holding value.  The good news is your only need to
> find one person who shares you vision and size.  As you started your build
> is pretty standard.
> Another option is to sell frame set separate from group set.  Also keeping
> the Campy build for yourself potentially.
>
> Good luck.
> Ryan Hankinson
> Muskegon, MI
>
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[RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[Abcyclehank]

Sean, 
That is a beautiful custom lugged frame.  Although others have cited the issues 
of customs not holding value.  The good news is your only need to find one 
person who shares you vision and size.  As you started your build is pretty 
standard.  
Another option is to sell frame set separate from group set.  Also keeping the 
Campy build for yourself potentially.

Good luck.
Ryan Hankinson
Muskegon, MI

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[RBW] FS- 58cm NOS Betty Foy and 50cm Used 94 RB-T

[Abcyclehank]

Bump 
Open to offers on either.
Pictures available through private messages.

All funds generated will be reinvested @ Rivendell World Headquarters.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
Muskegon, MI 49445

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Next update...

I got a call from Roman today with a couple of issues on my AHH build.
They have not yet received the polished Paul's brakes.  Evidently,
something happened to a machine that is holding up manufacturing.  They
will investigate to provide me some more information.  It also seems the
Honjo hammered fenders don't come wide enough for the 38 Barlow Pass EL
tires.  The hammered fenders only go to 45, which has the risk of a rock or
pebble locking the front wheel.  I don't think they look quite as nice, but
will be getting Honjo 50mm smooth fenders instead.

Tim

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

Still more comments about how nice the Cheviot is to ride.  As far as I can 
tell, the only criticism seems to be that it only have one bottle mount.  
For around town riding, this seems not a big deal, and, as the poster 
commented, extra bottles can be stashed in bags if going on an extended 
ride.

In the preorder page on the Riv website, Grant writes "Last Call?" in the 
description of the Cheviot, explaining that the Clem has been taking sales 
away from the Cheviot.  I rode both bikes a few weeks ago and found the 
Chev to feel much more nimble and quick than the Clem.  For my anticipated 
riding, that makes the Cheviot the winner.

A few people had commented about the struggle to sell custom bikes.  What a 
bummer.  I started a separate thread about my Bob Brown - with a link to 
some photos.  Its geometry is pretty conventional (I think) so hopefully 
there is a market for it.

Sean
EA, NY

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[RBW] Bob Brown Cycles Road Frame (as referenced in Cheviot thread)

[SeanMac]

As requested, here is a link to a few photos of my Bob Brown Cycles road 
frame.  It was built for me by Bob Brown in 2007.  It was my main bike for 
many years, but rarely hits the road any more.

The geometry is pretty straight forward:
 Size - to top of seat tube - 56.2 cm
 Top tube length - 54 cm
 Level top tube
 Chain stay length - 42.5 cm
 Wheelbase - 97.4 cm
 Standover height - 79.2 cm

I have a frame design spreadsheet with many more measurements, if anyone is 
interested.  

I had the bike outfitted with Campy Centaur components, which were mainly 
silver, a Brooks Swift saddle, Nitto threaded stem and Noodle bars.  My 
goal was to have a fast, nimble, classic-looking road bike.

Links to pics:  Bob Brown Cycles road frame 


As a said earlier, I don't anticipate anyone on this list would be 
interested in purchasing this bike (if you are, please contact me).  Any 
advice on where to sell it, asking price, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean
EA, NY

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Re: [RBW] Clipless or Clips?

[Eric Floden]

I started using clips and clipless as my very nice Marinoni built bike had
lots of toe overlap -- and heel strike on panniers too.  Then again I am
biggish - 6'5 with size 12 US shoes.  For longer bikes like my Fargo, no
problem

Eric Floden
Vancouver BC

On 9 August 2016 at 18:11, Eric Daume  wrote:

> Another vote against clips and straps. I don't see any benefit: they don't
> have the freedom and ease of use of flats, and they also don't have the
> security and locked in feeling of clipless. No thanks for me.
>
> Eric Daume
> Plain City, OH
> six bikes, 4 clipless, 2 flats
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:51 PM, RJM  wrote:
>
>> I cannot stand clips and straps and find them hugely annoying...but that
>> is just me.
>>
>> My stable goes like this...One mountain bike is using thin gripsters, the
>> other mountain bike is using xt clipless. The carbon road bike is using
>> Look Keo Classic pedals with Sidi shoes. The Touring bike is sporting thin
>> gripsters.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Rambouillet Serial #'s?

[Leslie]

Ha!  This is the thread from six years ago where I started trying to fun 
the numbers on the serial number breaks between colors, trying to figure 
out how many of each color was made, what ended up on cyclofiend.com's Ram 
page.

My green Ram is RB1207, and has the mid-fork braze-ons; your number as 
RB1222 is even higher than mine, and is blue.  Yours totally breaks the 
pattern.   Neat.  

There has to be something special about it.   I mean, it's the 
highest-numbered Ram I know of, but it's blue instead of green.   I almost 
wonder if someone near the very end of the Ram line said, I want one, but 
in blue... 



Also, FWIW... my son's orange Ram is RB0944:  by range, it should've been a 
blue bike:  but, it IS a 66, so since it's really tall, it may have been 
handled differently for assembly/brazing...   


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:36:24 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> My blue 54 Rambouillet is RB 1222. Hilsen lugs and two sets of braze-ons 
> on the seatstays. None on forks. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Clipless or Clips?

[Eric Daume]

Another vote against clips and straps. I don't see any benefit: they don't
have the freedom and ease of use of flats, and they also don't have the
security and locked in feeling of clipless. No thanks for me.

Eric Daume
Plain City, OH
six bikes, 4 clipless, 2 flats

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:51 PM, RJM  wrote:

> I cannot stand clips and straps and find them hugely annoying...but that
> is just me.
>
> My stable goes like this...One mountain bike is using thin gripsters, the
> other mountain bike is using xt clipless. The carbon road bike is using
> Look Keo Classic pedals with Sidi shoes. The Touring bike is sporting thin
> gripsters.
>
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[RBW] Re: Rambouillet Serial #'s?

[Leslie]

Oh, somewhere along the line, there's a typo:   my number really is an RB 
number, not RM... that's a typo...



On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 9:14:05 PM UTC-4, Leslie wrote:
>
> Ha!  This is the thread from six years ago where I started trying to fun 
> the numbers on the serial number breaks between colors, trying to figure 
> out how many of each color was made, what ended up on cyclofiend.com's 
> Ram page.
>
> My green Ram is RB1207, and has the mid-fork braze-ons; your number as 
> RB1222 is even higher than mine, and is blue.  Yours totally breaks the 
> pattern.   Neat.  
>
> There has to be something special about it.   I mean, it's the 
> highest-numbered Ram I know of, but it's blue instead of green.   I almost 
> wonder if someone near the very end of the Ram line said, I want one, but 
> in blue... 
>
>
>
> Also, FWIW... my son's orange Ram is RB0944:  by range, it should've been 
> a blue bike:  but, it IS a 66, so since it's really tall, it may have been 
> handled differently for assembly/brazing...   
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:36:24 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> My blue 54 Rambouillet is RB 1222. Hilsen lugs and two sets of braze-ons 
>> on the seatstays. None on forks. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm looking forward to the bikes n coffee this weekend!  My wife and I can't 
ride yet with the 7 week old in tow but I'll bring her Clementine and either my 
Saluki or Bombadil to show...  Hope to see plenty of folks out there!

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB (or trade) MKS Touring pedals

[jim]

no problem, I'm switching to big platform pedals and find the MKS a bit 
small. Good luck!!


On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 4:50:26 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Jim, thanks of the  offer. I’m thinking about using some power grips with 
> the MKS pedals, but first I’m trying out the VP Vice pedals I’ve got. So 
> far I’m on the fence about the VPs. I like the grip but seem to fidgit on 
> the pedals to get in the sweet spot. Plus I’m not so keen on the nasty 
> pedal strike on shin that can occur. So I was thinking about trying some 
> power grips on my commuter instead. 
>
> As I said, I’m still trying to adjust to the VPs (I’m a clipless guy). If 
> I want to try the power grips after all is said and done I’ll give you a 
> shout. 
>
> Thanks for your offer!
> J.
>
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:34 AM, jim <442...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I have a like new pair if you're still looking.
>
> Jim (Madison, WI)
>
> On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 1:13:28 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Hi all. 
>>
>> I'm interested in buying a set of MKS Touring pedals (maybe they used to 
>> be called Sylvan if memory serves?) that Riv used to sell. 
>> Or I'd gladly trade for a pair of well-used but perfectly functional MKS 
>> Sneaker pedals.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> John
>>
>
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[CoalTrain]

I have owned a Cheviot for a year and ride regularly.  I'm 6'3" and weigh 
220-230 depending on how many hot dogs I've eaten; there is not much frame flex 
and I can get this baby moving.  Great bike, maybe the greatest get around town 
bike ever created, or least for myself. 

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Jim M.]

I was never happy with clips and straps -- some of which came from pulling 
my foot out while racing -- so I switched to Look in 1984 and never looked 
back. I used SPD and Ritchey, and have settled on Time ATAC for the last 
decade or so. All of my bikes except one have Time; the only exception has 
Thin Gripsters. I've never liked barend shifters either, but I like steel 
bikes and Riv.

jim m
wc ca

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:11:32 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Some time ago I swapped the Shimano M324 pedals on the Hon Solo for MKS 
> GR9s, complete with Christophes, toe strap buckle pads, and strap buttons. 
> The GR9 is a cheap pedal, not nearly as nice as the MKS Urban, which I also 
> tried briefly, but the flip tab on the -9 is simply the best, IMO. 
>
> At any rate, the ease of entry and the flexibility with regard to footwear 
> are benefits that once again loom large on my mental horizon, and I'm 
> thinking of switching at least one of the Rivendells back to clips and 
> straps. As an additional motive, I just found a very good garage-shop 
> cobbler, and I have a pair of very nice, old leather soled Rivats that need 
> re-soling.
>
> And I know from experience that slipping the Rivats into semi-tight straps 
> on MKS RX-1 pedals is a hellofalot easier than getting into KEOS.
>
> Presently the '99 has lightweight double sided Expedos, and the '03 has 
> some upper-middle-class Shimano double sided mtb pedals from 10 or 15 years 
> ago; both very good.
>
> I'm thinking out loud: should I or should I not switch?
>
> More practically: how many of y'all use clips and straps? Clips and straps 
> and slotted cleats?
>
> Probably I should just ride the bikes and shut up. But I *do* like clips 
> and straps, and the decennially recurring question is now up for answer.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jeremy Tavan]

I'm not in a position to compare the two, but I would very much like to TRY 
a Cheviot, because I know from experience that my wife and I can easily 
pedal the Clem L-stype hard enough to cause problematic frame flex. The 
Cheviot should be stiffer, and I think that would help a lot.

/Jeremy

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:10:00 PM UTC-7, Mike Packard wrote:
>
> I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
> the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Ron Mc]

Thanks Patrick, That was probably my post about the shoes - I put the 
report on CR added them to a shoe topic on iBoB.  I really like them - they 
do the job I bought them for, they're lightweight, cool, plenty stiff, easy 
in and out of the toe straps - and look better than I need.  Honestly, I'd 
take a new pair of my old Avocet touring shoes from 1978 if somebody made 
them...

I think the benchmark touring shoe today is the Quoc Pham Fixed - perfect 
touring sole, but to me, the style looks too dressy (good for work), but 
also the design - my foot needs the longer laces/tongue of the Mamnick 
style.  The Mamnicks were also a little cheaper than the Quoc Pham.  Oh, 
and I wasn't counting any of the SPD shoes.  Just touring soles.  

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:59:29 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Those are beautiful shoes; they came up recently on either the boblist or 
> the CR list. I also came across Hasus shoes (Taiwan) who have "retro" 
> models, and of course Dromarti.
>
> Y'know, I always change back to clipless in the end, and what I will 
> probably do is simply get a pair of RX-1s or old Campys, get my Rivats 
> fixed, and ride that combination until I get my fill of the system and the 
> urge goes away for another five or 10 years. Still, it's fun to use C&S 
> from time to time.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Just Ride

[Richard L]

The writer doesn't use fenders, but ..

http://redkiteprayer.com/2016/07/friday-group-ride-322/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Patrick Moore]

Those are beautiful shoes; they came up recently on either the boblist or
the CR list. I also came across Hasus shoes (Taiwan) who have "retro"
models, and of course Dromarti.

Y'know, I always change back to clipless in the end, and what I will
probably do is simply get a pair of RX-1s or old Campys, get my Rivats
fixed, and ride that combination until I get my fill of the system and the
urge goes away for another five or 10 years. Still, it's fun to use C&S
from time to time.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> never tried clipless and simply have never wanted to.
> I ride two bikes with spiked flat platform pedals.  My go-fast I ride MKS
> Neuvo Wide pedals with Ale clips and Binda straps.
> Just bought some Mamnick Hibbell touring shoes for my birthday treat and
> like them, too.
>
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**
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circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Olympic Bike Racing, Cobbles, and tire width

[NickBull]

Sure looked to me like she slipped when she hit the center stripe.  

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:20:50 AM UTC-4, ascpgh wrote:
>
> When picking tires for that course, I wonder how many considered the 
> moisture? That section where the Dutch rider went down looked moist, like 
> from condensing moisture. Back when special compound tires were just 
> landing in stores and folks buying them were finding out themselves that 
> their oddly high traction had oddly huge losses of such in wet conditions, 
> not from warning labels on the packaging. 
>
> I was behind a rider on those early grey compound Specialized tires on a 
> switchbacking descent of a mountain (AR Hwy 74, riding the now titled 
> "Jasper Disaster" route) where in the lower half of the elevation drop the 
> canopy was very full over the turns and a trickle of water ran across the 
> apex of the turn. It was exactly like the images you see of racers in a 
> city street corner who cross the paint of a crosswalk if slightly wet: 
> flick, slam!. one smooth, accelerating motion to the ground. 
>
> I didn't notice special tires at Rio, but I'm sure racers don't show their 
> cards with colored treads. That road, under canopy and a descent from a 
> "jungle" makes me think with a high dew point, an area under cover from the 
> sun like that would condensate frequently, and some moss/algae would exist, 
> an like a wooden deck with the same problem, just add water to see an 
> amazing loss of traction. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 3:08:03 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:
>>
>> On a cobbled course like Paris Roubaix, some pro racers ride 28mm 
>> tubulars--not 42mm 650b Compass tires, but not 23mm racing tubulars either. 
>> Pro racers can also change bikes mid-race. Chris Froome changed bike when 
>> they began the second circuit during the Olymplic men's road race. Given 
>> what happened to the Men's race a day ahead (when two out of the three in 
>> the leading group crashed on the descent and the third lost the lead in the 
>> final meters), I think it is a highly reasonable strategy for the women 
>> racers to switch to bike sporting 28mm tubulars with lower pressure for the 
>> descent to maintain speed while staying safe. But none did it, and a racer 
>> in the lead group crashed again!
>>
>> Jan did have access to wind tunnel in his early tire tests, not sure if 
>> the resource is available to him and BQ anymore. I don't recall the wide 
>> tires being disadvantaged because of aerodynamics in his tests. Jan's 
>> premise was always that on smooth as baby's face tarmac, skinny and 
>> high-pressured tires maintain their advantage, but on pavement of everyday 
>> (and lesser) quality, then the dampening from the wider tires to prevent 
>> vibration loss win out. I don't think he rides tires only because he likes 
>> them, but because they offer real performance advantages in the conditions 
>> described. Having been to Brazil and the very highway that the race was on, 
>> I recall that pavement quality is uneven at best. I wouldn't be surprised 
>> if someone riding high-quality 700cx32mm tires can maintain the same 
>> performance as when they ride 23mm tubulars.
>>
>> But of course race bikes have to be constructed to fit tires that wide 
>> (they already do up to 28mm for Paris-Roubaix)
>>
>> Franklyn
>>
>> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 11:26:55 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, Patrick, it was a beautiful ride and a very gallant effort... and 
>>> in defeat she was extremely gracious..I was cheering for her and gutted 
>>> about the young Dutchwoman Van Vleuten's crash. That's why I  feel bike 
>>> racing is an epic sport in the truest sense of the word and I still 
>>> continue to watch it despite all the doping BS...and in the Olympics 
>>> despite the noise and BS  you still have these profoundly uplifting 
>>> moments. Maybe the Olympics give us a chance to get in touch with our 
>>> better natures. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 12:23:44 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 This WSJ article by Jason Gay does a great job of capturing the bike 
 race in a stunningly Rivendelian spirit, as evidenced by the Headline: 
 "Mara Abbott's Beautiful Ride in Rio": 

 http://www.wsj.com/articles/mara-abbotts-beautiful-ride-in-rio-1470615782?mod=rss_Sports

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 10:57:11 AM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Aha, the Olympics -- those things. I forgot about them. Unfortunately, 
> no TV ... Am trying to catch glimpses on youtube.
>
>>
 Patrick: I've been watching on NBColympics.com.



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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Joe Bernard]

Let's see the Bob Brown!

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[RBW] Re: CSJ: Non-moose Boscos

[Bill Lindsay]

How have you determined that Clem-completes are now shipping with 
non-bullmoose bars?  All of the Clem Completes in the "ready to ride" 
section of rivbike.com have bullmooses.  The catalog sure says it's 
bullmooses.  Is it possible that you might be looking at photos of bikes 
posted by people who bought a frameset only?  I don't have a dog in the 
fight, and I could think of reasons why I would want bullmoose and reasons 
why I would want non-bullmoose.  After listing the pros and cons, I'd still 
prefer to have bullmoose boscos.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:09:51 PM UTC-7, cam starnes wrote:
>
> Just noticed that the 2016 Clems (one of which is my anxiously 
> awaited/still awaiting 52c green pre-order) are shipping with normal, 
> non-bullmoose Boscos. I suppose it's silly to be disappointed, but I have 
> always liked the integrated look of the various bullmoose variants, and 
> also thought the added stiffness would be good, generally, and especially 
> good for yanking that long, stout bike around while hauling my commuting 
> load. Any thoughts?
>
> CS (Cam S., not Clem S.)
>

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Ron Mc]

never tried clipless and simply have never wanted to.  
I ride two bikes with spiked flat platform pedals.  My go-fast I ride MKS 
Neuvo Wide pedals with Ale clips and Binda straps.  
Just bought some Mamnick Hibbell touring shoes for my birthday treat and 
like them, too.  

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Gravel & Grind Espresso + Bikes]

Actually they are Shimano shifters mates to IRD levers. I think Shimano makes 
the best friction shifter out there but you can use any shifters on these and 
they come in silver which genevalles don't. We keep plenty in stock in case 
anyone wants a pair.   

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[RBW] Re: Rambouillet Serial #'s?

[Lungimsam]

My blue 54 Rambouillet is RB 1222. Hilsen lugs and two sets of braze-ons on 
the seatstays. None on forks. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW / BQ inspired steel lugged custom

[René Sterental]

Thanks Jack!

The rear hub is a White Industries T11; the skewer is Paul's:
https://paulcomp.com/shop/components/quick-release-skewers/

I like them and they look good, don't they? You can get them in silver,
black or Rasta as well.

René

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Jack K  wrote:

> Rene',
>
> Definitely a thoughtfully designed and well proportioned machine. Very
> nice indeed! What is the rear hub and rear skewer? The skewer in particular
> I don't recognize.
>
> Cheers and safe riding!
>
> -Jack
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 9:03:54 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Ryan.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 8, 2016, Ryan Fleming  wrote:
>>
>>> That is a  very handsome machine , Rene...those Steve Rex bikes are
>>> beauties, and you  both have an excellent eye for detail. I hope you ride
>>> many happy miles on your new custom!
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 8:32:25 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

 Thanks for your comments Doug.

 I agree, Steve is a master at his craft.

 I didn't want a full rear rack for this bike; in fact, I initially only
 wanted the front small rack, but when he showed me his racks, I just
 couldn't let the opportunity pass. They give the bike such a distinct look
 and functionality. The Atlantis has the full set of front & rear racks with
 low riders on both.

 The way this bike seems to be evolving I'm now not sure which of my
 bikes it will replace, the Homer, the Atlantis or maybe even both! It will
 be a long month until I can finish it and start riding it to see how it
 fits and responds. My trust is that Steve, with his knowledge and
 experience, has been able to convert what I expressed I wanted into the
 materialization of my dreams.

 Thanks to all for your nice comments!

 René


 On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:13 PM, dougP  wrote:

> Rene:
>
> Following your evolution thru bikes over the last couple of years (??)
> has been interesting.  You have a knack for defining subtle differences in
> understandable terms.  This no doubt was key in your communications with
> Steve Rex.  My wager is that when complete the bike will be everything you
> expected.  What a journey!
>
> A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of staying with a couple in Davis
> who have (literally) a house full of nice bikes.  Many are Steve Rex
> creations.  I had heard of him but had not seen his work in person.  The
> craftsmanship & attention to detail is incredible.  Next time I'm in the
> northern provinces I intend to visit his shop.
>
> Comments re: your custom (have not read every post here).  The cables
> under the bottom bracket are esp. nice.  The racks are absolutely
> artistic.  While I'd opt for a platform on the rear (just because), 
> the
> low pannier rails are perfect.  And the detachable front low riders are
> gorgeous.  Based on what I've seen, Steve Rex is an artist who has figured
> out a way to make a living doing his art.
>
> dougP
>
>
> On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 8:59:03 AM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The day has arrived. I'm driving to Sacramento later this morning to
>> pick up my custom low trail 650b lugged steel fendered and racked custom.
>>
>> Will post photos and a short update later. I'll be building the whole
>> bike but will take my sweet time to enjoy it. I will also likely let the
>> paint fully cure, as expressed in a separate thread.
>>
>> Hopefully the group will still enjoy this, but if it's too far out
>> from the RBW spirit of this forum, I'll be very happy not to do these
>> postings. It's just that for me, this bike epitomizes everything I've
>> learned and experienced since that very first day when I visited RBW HQ 
>> and
>> drove home with my Homer.
>>
>> René
>>
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Re: [RBW] FS: EWR "Yazoo" Wool SS Jersey $35

[Eric Norris]

Sale pending on the jersey.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Aug 9, 2016, at 12:59 PM, Eric Norris  wrote:
> 
> Nice short-sleeved jersey by Earth, Wind, and Rider with the Yazoo 
> (microbrew) logo. I’ve worn it a few times, but it’s in like new condition. 
> Logo on the front is knitted into the fabric; rear is embroidered.
> 
> Size XXL is 22” across the armpits, 28” top to bottom at the back. Short 
> zipper in the front.
> 
> The only issue I have with the jersey is that it doesn’t have pockets on the 
> back. If that’s not a deal breaker for you, this is a great price on a 
> quality 100% wool jersey.
> 
> $35 shipped in the CONUS.
> 
> Photos on Flickr:
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/K4pfer  
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/K4e5o5 
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/K4e5aQ  
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com 
> www.campyonly.com 
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Mike Packard]

I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.

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[RBW] Hunquapillar for Sale - 58cm Complete

[Nick Huemmer]

Hi Everyone,
I have a 58cm Hunquapillar for sale.  Why am I selling it?  I don't want 
to, but I realize that I'm probably not going to bike camp or tour any time 
soon, and if I do I'll use my AHH for an S24O.  At any rate, I need room 
for some other bike stuff I have going and I figured I'll post this bike 
here first - I'd rather sell locally in the Bay Area but will ship if there 
is no interest locally,

Full disclosure - This bike looks really new, but it's used.  There a some 
chips in the paint  due to chainsuck (covered in clear nailpolish, not 
noticeable) and the kickstand plate is slightly bent (from overloading the 
kickstand, my mistake will save you money), but these are the only signs of 
use on the frame.  It is totally sound and I've ridden plenty of rough 
trails without issue.  This is NOT the reason I'm selling the bike (I love 
it and it's lot's of fun *but* priorities).  I cleaned up most of the dirt 
on the bike, but there is some.  

Component Spec:
Wheels:  Alex Adventure rims 36 spoke laced to Deore LX hubs
Crank: Sugino 172.5 RD2 triple, Chainrings 40 34 26 (low for climbing hills 
and loose trails)
Bottom Bracket: Shimano (the spindle looks long, works fine, I have a 
replacement for it if you want).
Rear Cassette: Shimano XT 34 30 26 23 20 17 15 13 11
Front Derailer: Shimano XT (relatively new, 1 year old)
Rear Derailer: Shimano XT (also relatively new)
Tires: Schwalbe Big Ben 700c x 55 (2.165 inches)
Headset: Headset FSA Duron Silver 1" threaded
Stem: Nitto Tallux
Handlebars: Nitto Albatross
Shifter: Shimano Friction - Dura Ace
Seatpost: Nitto 83
Saddle: Brooks Flyer, Black (the one with the springs, well broken in)
Brake levers: Forte (same as the Shimano basic ones, work fine)
Brakes: Tektro CR720 Cantilevers
Pedals: MKS grip king
Grips:  Wool wrapped in bar tape (by Brian), shellac'ed by me.
Bottle cage: Velo-Orange

Frame pump included.

Pics are posted to Flickr here:  https://flic.kr/s/aHskEywocA

$2555

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[RBW] Re: A question for Soma San Marcos Owners (V2 in Tiburon blue)

[Monica Gallagher]

I have a 47cm 2nd generation with 650b X 38 Soma New Express tires. I have the 
velo orange hammered 650b fenders on it. It works out 90% of the time. The 
other 10% of the time I am digging out pine needles between the fender and the 
tire after I just took it through the woods. 

I take this bike probably where it shouldn't be taken and it always hold up. 
The fork and lugs are beautiful. The frame is light and responsive. Enough 
braze-one for front and back racks and fenders. Highly recommend. 

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[RBW] Re: RBW / BQ inspired steel lugged custom

[Jack K]

Rene',

Definitely a thoughtfully designed and well proportioned machine. Very nice 
indeed! What is the rear hub and rear skewer? The skewer in particular I 
don't recognize. 

Cheers and safe riding!

-Jack

Raleigh, NC

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 9:03:54 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> Thanks Ryan. 
>
> On Monday, August 8, 2016, Ryan Fleming  > wrote:
>
>> That is a  very handsome machine , Rene...those Steve Rex bikes are 
>> beauties, and you  both have an excellent eye for detail. I hope you ride 
>> many happy miles on your new custom!
>>
>> On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 8:32:25 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments Doug. 
>>>
>>> I agree, Steve is a master at his craft. 
>>>
>>> I didn't want a full rear rack for this bike; in fact, I initially only 
>>> wanted the front small rack, but when he showed me his racks, I just 
>>> couldn't let the opportunity pass. They give the bike such a distinct look 
>>> and functionality. The Atlantis has the full set of front & rear racks with 
>>> low riders on both.
>>>
>>> The way this bike seems to be evolving I'm now not sure which of my 
>>> bikes it will replace, the Homer, the Atlantis or maybe even both! It will 
>>> be a long month until I can finish it and start riding it to see how it 
>>> fits and responds. My trust is that Steve, with his knowledge and 
>>> experience, has been able to convert what I expressed I wanted into the 
>>> materialization of my dreams.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for your nice comments!
>>>
>>> René 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:13 PM, dougP  wrote:
>>>
 Rene:

 Following your evolution thru bikes over the last couple of years (??) 
 has been interesting.  You have a knack for defining subtle differences in 
 understandable terms.  This no doubt was key in your communications with 
 Steve Rex.  My wager is that when complete the bike will be everything you 
 expected.  What a journey!

 A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of staying with a couple in Davis 
 who have (literally) a house full of nice bikes.  Many are Steve Rex 
 creations.  I had heard of him but had not seen his work in person.  The 
 craftsmanship & attention to detail is incredible.  Next time I'm in the 
 northern provinces I intend to visit his shop.  

 Comments re: your custom (have not read every post here).  The cables 
 under the bottom bracket are esp. nice.  The racks are absolutely 
 artistic.  While I'd opt for a platform on the rear (just because), 
 the 
 low pannier rails are perfect.  And the detachable front low riders are 
 gorgeous.  Based on what I've seen, Steve Rex is an artist who has figured 
 out a way to make a living doing his art.  

 dougP


 On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 8:59:03 AM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> The day has arrived. I'm driving to Sacramento later this morning to 
> pick up my custom low trail 650b lugged steel fendered and racked custom.
>
> Will post photos and a short update later. I'll be building the whole 
> bike but will take my sweet time to enjoy it. I will also likely let the 
> paint fully cure, as expressed in a separate thread.
>
> Hopefully the group will still enjoy this, but if it's too far out 
> from the RBW spirit of this forum, I'll be very happy not to do these 
> postings. It's just that for me, this bike epitomizes everything I've 
> learned and experienced since that very first day when I visited RBW HQ 
> and 
> drove home with my Homer.
>
> René 
>
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[RBW] Wool Shirts/Jerseys

[Hunter Ellis]

I'm looking to buy (on list or off) a wool T shirt/Jersey/Other to use in 
conjunction with another wool t shirt that I already have on a 10 day tour. 
Anyone have any favorites? I like the idea of the pockets in a Jersey, but 
they're expensive and I don't like the idea of wearing a "jersey" ;-)

I'm attached to wool because of the odor and temperature regulation 
factors, though I'm open to hearing arguments for other materials. One 
thought was to ALSO bring a lightweight button down cotton dress shirt. I 
have a rather fancy one that can be, nonetheless, great for riding (a Gant 
Rugger "sportshirt")

Hunter "Sheepish" Ellis

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[RBW] Re: 30k Riv Romulus report

[franklyn]

Hi, Joe,

That's a nice anecdote. I keep my mileage, and tried to record when I 
change tires and wheels, but there is so much movement/rotation of parts 
it's hard to keep track. Incidentally, I got my first Romulus in 2004 (and 
second one in 2007) but didn't keep either beyond 2009. Now all my bikes 
are 650b, but I always look lovingly at a Romulus when I see one.

Fun riding!
Franklyn

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 8:39:39 PM UTC-7, joe b. in portland wrote:
>
> Cross posted to RBW and iBoB.
>
> I'm updating the drive train on my canti-Rom, bought pretty much new as a 
> frame from a Wyoming i-bob in 2005. I realized looking through my 
> maintenance notes that I'm right at 30k miles--hard to believe! It was fun 
> to tally up what's been done over that time, especially since I've mostly 
> left it alone since the initial build. Spoiler alert: simple bikes are 
> really low maintenance.
>
> In 30k including year round commuting in Montana and Oregon, touring on 
> all surfaces, and generally getting around, I've replaced...
>
> 10 sets of tires, mostly paselas
> 10 sets of front brake pads
> 10 chains
> 2 freewheels (though original suntour not worn out)
> 2 sets of bar tape
> 1 front rim
> 1 set of rear pads
> 1 saggy B17 standard
> 0 chainrings (steel, well, I did pull off the original biopace rings)
> 0 cables, shift or brake (yay? yikes?)
>
> Here's to the next 30k, possibly with a 2x10 drive train if it works out.
>
> Best,
> joe
> pdx or
>
> Caveat lector. Sent from a phone.
>

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

['Kurt Henry' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My guess would be Gevenall 
(http://gevenalle.com/product-category/shifters/).  Really cool options 
they've come up with.  I like the thought of using one of the Shimano 
Dyna-Sys derailleurs with a super wide 1 X 10/11.  Not that I have any 
plans to set one up, but.
Kurt Henry
Lancaster, PA

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:30:55 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> are seriously classy  with  those nice WI hubs (M15 I'm guessing) , crank 
> and Paul racer brakes. I wonder  who makes those brake levers? ..neat to 
> see how they integrate the braking  with barend shifters.
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:27:11 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>>
>> Those black sams.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS Bags, Racks, etc.

[Steve Butcher]

Bump!  I'd sell the Nitto R-10, extra 23cm stays, and the Revelate Jerrycan 
as a package for $100.00 Shipped CONUS.  

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 9:02:54 PM UTC-5, Steve Butcher wrote:
>
> The Nitto F-16 has sold.  Items 2, 4, 6, and 7 are still available.  As a 
> reminder, the extras stays for the Nitto R-10 are 23 cm instead of 42 cm.  
>
> On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 1:16:04 AM UTC-5, Steve Butcher wrote:
>>
>> The Saddlesack has sold.  Items 2, 4, 6, 7, and 8 still available.  
>>
>> On Sunday, July 24, 2016 at 7:47:14 PM UTC-5, Steve Butcher wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello, I'm offering for sale the following items I'm not using.  Photos 
>>> can be sent to interested buyers as needed.  
>>>
>>> 1.  Rivendell Saddlesack size medium olive in gently used condition with 
>>> extra pair of 15 inch Sackville buckle straps- $185.00
>>> 2.  Nitto R-10 rear rack with extra set of 42 cm stays-$100.00
>>> 3.  VO Randonneur Front Rack with decaleur kit for 1 inch threaded 
>>> stem-$90.00
>>> 4.  VO Rackaleur-$20.00
>>> 5.  Rivendell Silver Hupe-$20.00
>>> 6.  Revelate Designs-Jerrycan in digital camo for Regular frame (the 
>>> velcro on the frame strap has been trimmed to fit a narrow steel frame 
>>> tube)-$20.00
>>> 7.  Lesyne XL seat bag in black nylon-$20.00
>>> 8.  Nitto f-16 front handlebar hook bag supporter-$50.00
>>>
>>> All items are in very good condition and prices are plus shipping 
>>> CONUS.  Please send me a PM if you have any questions.  Thanks for 
>>> looking.  Steve.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] CSJ: Non-moose Boscos

[cam starnes]

Just noticed that the 2016 Clems (one of which is my anxiously 
awaited/still awaiting 52c green pre-order) are shipping with normal, 
non-bullmoose Boscos. I suppose it's silly to be disappointed, but I have 
always liked the integrated look of the various bullmoose variants, and 
also thought the added stiffness would be good, generally, and especially 
good for yanking that long, stout bike around while hauling my commuting 
load. Any thoughts?

CS (Cam S., not Clem S.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/09/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold. 
 First is that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom 
frame is valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things 
until they are perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely 
spent once the bike is made.  It's no longer custom for the next 
person who buys it, because the next owner can't change anything. 
 That immediately removes whatever premium you paid for it being 
custom right off the top of your re-sale value.  Taking a $3500 custom 
Rivendell as an example, the resale value of a custom Rivendell is not 
a lot higher than the resale value of a stock MUSA Rivendell, like an 
Atlantis or a Roadeo.


It's actually worse than that (based on long-standing observation of 
discussions of custom bikes for sale on a couple of bicycle forums).  A 
custom frame has unknown geometry, whereas you can always look up the 
specs on an old stock frame.  Some customers have gotten amazingly weird 
customs - things you'd hope no self respecting builder would ever 
countenance, things that can (as happened in the case of Serotta) go a 
long way towards destroying a firm's reputation.  As a result, people 
are very wary of customs made for someone else, and the price reflects 
that concern as well.


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Re: [RBW] Latest Roscoe Bubbe

[Steve Palincsar]

Normally this would be the cue to say "A picture is worth 1,000 words" 
but when it comes to color, pictures can be so horribly misleading.



On 08/09/2016 03:24 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Well, I need to have a name for a color when describing a color.



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[RBW] Clipless or Clips?

[Kyle Brooks]

I have roughly a dozen bikes and have clipless pedals on only one - a custom 
Mercian built with modern Campy components. One bike has regular old 2-sided 
city pedals with no clips or straps - I use it for shopping and getting around 
in the city. All the rest have old school toe clip & strap pedals, and that 
includes my main commuting bike. That one has 80s vintage Specialized touring 
pedals which are a blend of quill and platform pedals. The others are racing 
quill pedals like Campy Record SL or MKS Sylvan or similar.

I have never had trouble getting in or out of toe clip pedals - in fact, I tend 
to have more problems with clipless. If the cleat on the clipless pedals 
doesn't line up just right it's likely your foot slips off and you end up with 
banged up shins or worse. But I can get moving on toe clip pedals safely even 
if I have a momentary problem flipping the pedal up. 

I sometimes use slotted cleat shoes, but I don't cinch the straps super snug. 
Mostly I ride in flat soled touring shoes. And I like that I can use regular 
street shoes or sneakers if I wish to.

Kyle Brooks 
Akron OH 
The Retrogrouch Blog

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[RBW] Re: GF looking for riv bike size 50

[Dave at Rivendell]

We have 47/50cm Saluki/Hilsens, 46cm Appaloosas, 45/51cm Clems & 
Clementines & 51cm Sams IN STOCK. 
50cm Cheviots on the way

Dave Schonenberg
http://www.rivbike.com

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[RBW] FS: EWR "Yazoo" Wool SS Jersey $35

[Eric Norris]

Nice short-sleeved jersey by Earth, Wind, and Rider with the Yazoo (microbrew) 
logo. I’ve worn it a few times, but it’s in like new condition. Logo on the 
front is knitted into the fabric; rear is embroidered.

Size XXL is 22” across the armpits, 28” top to bottom at the back. Short zipper 
in the front.

The only issue I have with the jersey is that it doesn’t have pockets on the 
back. If that’s not a deal breaker for you, this is a great price on a quality 
100% wool jersey.

$35 shipped in the CONUS.

Photos on Flickr:

https://flic.kr/p/K4pfer  

https://flic.kr/p/K4e5o5 

https://flic.kr/p/K4e5aQ  

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

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[RBW] Clipless or Clips?

[RJM]

I cannot stand clips and straps and find them hugely annoying...but that is 
just me. 

My stable goes like this...One mountain bike is using thin gripsters, the other 
mountain bike is using xt clipless. The carbon road bike is using Look Keo 
Classic pedals with Sidi shoes. The Touring bike is sporting thin gripsters. 

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Ryan Fleming]

clips and straps for me with Sidi Touring shoes that Rivendell used to 
sell...just breaking in the 2nd of 2 pairs I bought in 2000 or 2001; Pedals 
- MKS Royal Nuevo /  Sylvan Track/Stream and Campagnolo Track pedals. No 
cleats. The Stream pedals don't have a flip tab...sometimes the tab can be 
a wee bit of a nuisance. Pretty much stopped using clipless in 1995 or so. 
I also tried to go with no retention , but that just feels too weird to 
me...no offence intended to everyone who's embraced this but I've tried it 
and I just don't feel secure or something

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:11:32 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Some time ago I swapped the Shimano M324 pedals on the Hon Solo for MKS 
> GR9s, complete with Christophes, toe strap buckle pads, and strap buttons. 
> The GR9 is a cheap pedal, not nearly as nice as the MKS Urban, which I also 
> tried briefly, but the flip tab on the -9 is simply the best, IMO. 
>
> At any rate, the ease of entry and the flexibility with regard to footwear 
> are benefits that once again loom large on my mental horizon, and I'm 
> thinking of switching at least one of the Rivendells back to clips and 
> straps. As an additional motive, I just found a very good garage-shop 
> cobbler, and I have a pair of very nice, old leather soled Rivats that need 
> re-soling.
>
> And I know from experience that slipping the Rivats into semi-tight straps 
> on MKS RX-1 pedals is a hellofalot easier than getting into KEOS.
>
> Presently the '99 has lightweight double sided Expedos, and the '03 has 
> some upper-middle-class Shimano double sided mtb pedals from 10 or 15 years 
> ago; both very good.
>
> I'm thinking out loud: should I or should I not switch?
>
> More practically: how many of y'all use clips and straps? Clips and straps 
> and slotted cleats?
>
> Probably I should just ride the bikes and shut up. But I *do* like clips 
> and straps, and the decennially recurring question is now up for answer.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

as usual good point and I bet your buyer was thrilled to get such a deal

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:04:51 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold.  First is 
> that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom frame is 
> valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things until they are 
> perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely spent once the bike 
> is made.  It's no longer custom for the next person who buys it, because 
> the next owner can't change anything.  That immediately removes whatever 
> premium you paid for it being custom right off the top of your re-sale 
> value.  Taking a $3500 custom Rivendell as an example, the resale value of 
> a custom Rivendell is not a lot higher than the resale value of a stock 
> MUSA Rivendell, like an Atlantis or a Roadeo.  The second problem is your 
> buyer needs to already be a fan of your builder to be motivated to buy your 
> bike.  Finding a bunch of Bob Brown fans looking for a deal might be hard.  
>
> Personally I sold a Davidson Signature frameset and experienced these 
> issues first hand.  It was a ~$2200 frameset in 1992.  I sold it in 2010, 
> eventually resorting to eBay, for $400.  My buyer was understandably 
> thrilled at the deal he got.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:02 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>
>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>> the trigger.
>>
>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
>> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
>> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
>> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
>> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
>> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>
>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Sean
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Latest Roscoe Bubbe

[Joe Bernard]

Well, I need to have a name for a color when describing a color. 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jon in central Colorado]

These posts make me happy I ordered a Cheviot.
I have never ridden one.
I tried to talk my wife into a 55cm so she could ride along with me on my 
Sam. She said no. So I ordered a 60cm for myself. Snooze she loses.
I'm excited to see the difference between the Sam and Cheviot. The Cheviot 
probably not as responsive in the corners but expect it to be as 
comfortable or more than the Sam.
They will be set up almost identically. A spring saddle for the Cheviot.
Chomping at the bit!


>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bill Lindsay]

The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold.  First is 
that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom frame is 
valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things until they are 
perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely spent once the bike 
is made.  It's no longer custom for the next person who buys it, because 
the next owner can't change anything.  That immediately removes whatever 
premium you paid for it being custom right off the top of your re-sale 
value.  Taking a $3500 custom Rivendell as an example, the resale value of 
a custom Rivendell is not a lot higher than the resale value of a stock 
MUSA Rivendell, like an Atlantis or a Roadeo.  The second problem is your 
buyer needs to already be a fan of your builder to be motivated to buy your 
bike.  Finding a bunch of Bob Brown fans looking for a deal might be hard.  

Personally I sold a Davidson Signature frameset and experienced these 
issues first hand.  It was a ~$2200 frameset in 1992.  I sold it in 2010, 
eventually resorting to eBay, for $400.  My buyer was understandably 
thrilled at the deal he got.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:02 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>
> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
> the trigger.
>
> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>
> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>
> Thanks again,
> Sean
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Ryan Fleming]

are seriously classy  with  those nice WI hubs (M15 I'm guessing) , crank 
and Paul racer brakes. I wonder  who makes those brake levers? ..neat to 
see how they integrate the braking  with barend shifters.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:27:11 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> Those black sams.

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[Brian Campbell]

I have a size 11 1/2 foot.  I used the SOMA Oppy toe clips (copies of the 
old Weinmann design) MKS Touring pedals  with a flip tab installed. Always 
worked great. I did not tighten the straps and did not use cleated shoes. 
That said, l recently got a knee issue solved and have been using Shimano 
SPD dual sided pedals (1 side platform, 1 side clipless) and gave up the 
clips and straps. While the platform is nothing on the SPD pedal to write 
home about, it works when I want to take a short ride in flip flops or 
street shoes. I like the SPD connection especially on longer rides and 
extended climbs.

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[RBW] Cheviot (or Sam)

[Madam Xylene]

I love my cheviot! Great for carrying lots of stuff and enjoy being upright 
while cruising in traffic. Get over the girl bike thing. I even commute up 1800 
ft elevation on it, not the best for uphill but is a blast rolling down steep 
hills and enjoying view of Golden Gate Bridge. Have also done Mt.Diablo except 
last pitch on it. Bike is very stable but it is longer and heavier than my 
other bikes. As a scrawny but tallish 66 yr old female I can manage it into my 
house and BART elevators. Another bonus, if you have a hip muscle or tendon 
issue the step through feature will be most appreciated.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

Sorryas you can see by the link, classic lugged steel bikes available

 http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/  

>From Minnesota

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:07:56 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
>> bike here or internet-bob, I would think
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>>
>>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>>> the trigger.
>>>
>>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can 
>>> justify purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I 
>>> currently own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  
>>> Where else might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a 
>>> standard depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me 
>>> determine my price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>>
>>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

 I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
 bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
 downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides 
 anything 
 like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
 one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
 another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
 blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If 
 you 
 dig that Chev, buy it!
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:07:56 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
> bike here or internet-bob, I would think
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>
>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>> the trigger.
>>
>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
>> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
>> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
>> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
>> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
>> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>
>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Sean
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[drew]

Those black sams.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[drew]

I just recently gave up looking for a used 50cm cheviot for my wife. She has a 
Clem and it would be stupid financially anyway. They just don't pop up for sale 
nearly as often as other riv models. I think I've seen 1 chev in the last year, 
and he was selling it for about the same price as a new one. That has to be 
good.

I have a Sam. I love it, but like phillip I was not satisfied with upright bars 
on it. It felt too squished. I know others here have and love uprights on their 
sams. Mine has drops and is definitely more road like. 

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[RBW] Clipless or Clips?

[Patrick Moore]

Some time ago I swapped the Shimano M324 pedals on the Hon Solo for MKS
GR9s, complete with Christophes, toe strap buckle pads, and strap buttons.
The GR9 is a cheap pedal, not nearly as nice as the MKS Urban, which I also
tried briefly, but the flip tab on the -9 is simply the best, IMO.

At any rate, the ease of entry and the flexibility with regard to footwear
are benefits that once again loom large on my mental horizon, and I'm
thinking of switching at least one of the Rivendells back to clips and
straps. As an additional motive, I just found a very good garage-shop
cobbler, and I have a pair of very nice, old leather soled Rivats that need
re-soling.

And I know from experience that slipping the Rivats into semi-tight straps
on MKS RX-1 pedals is a hellofalot easier than getting into KEOS.

Presently the '99 has lightweight double sided Expedos, and the '03 has
some upper-middle-class Shimano double sided mtb pedals from 10 or 15 years
ago; both very good.

I'm thinking out loud: should I or should I not switch?

More practically: how many of y'all use clips and straps? Clips and straps
and slotted cleats?

Probably I should just ride the bikes and shut up. But I *do* like clips
and straps, and the decennially recurring question is now up for answer.

-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
bike here or internet-bob, I would think

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>
> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
> the trigger.
>
> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>
> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>
> Thanks again,
> Sean
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>
>

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[RBW] Latest Roscoe Bubbe

[ian m]

Interestingly enough from a "design evolution " standpoint the new Bubbes are 
very similar to the vision of Cleland cycles, an early proponent of off road 
cycling in the UK. He liked very steep seat and head angles though. Always like 
seeing things come full circle

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Re: [RBW] Re: 10-30 minute rides

[Beth H]

That's GENIUS. -- Beth H in PDX

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 8, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Speaking of short rides.  We have an annual campout with some old friends 
> that visit every August from Wisconsin.  Every year we'd go for a weekend of 
> car-camping at Samuel P Taylor park.  One year, Samuel P Taylor park had some 
> problem with their plumbing and there was going to be no running water.  We 
> like the running water and so we re-located our campout to a backyard in 
> Berkeley.  That 'campout' went so well that now we do it every year at the 
> same Berkeley backyard.  
> 
> This year, my son (15) and I decided that not only would we be camping out in 
> the backyard, but we would tandem cycletour to that Berkeley back yard.  We 
> loaded up our Ibis Touche with our tent, sleeping bags, stove, change of 
> clothes, and toiletries and rode from the El Cerrito Hills down to North 
> Berkeley.  Down the hill was probably about a 20 minute ride, and back up the 
> hill the next day might have been close to an hour.  It was a short and 
> altogether pointless ride, but it was fun, and I imagine it will be a fond 
> memory of an outing spent with my young son.  A willing and athletic 15 year 
> old can provide some significant thrust up a hill.  I'm glad I took the small 
> amount of time to take that short ride.  
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 3:55:25 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
> Grant mentioned this to me a few weeks ago and I thought I'd pass it along: 
> "A 10 to 30 minute ride is always a good idea." I really appreciated this 
> because - although I'm not trying to bust out metric centuries anymore - I 
> still have a tendency to think short rides don't count as a "real ride." Of 
> course that's silly, but apparently I needed to be reminded. Today I had 
> exactly 30 minutes available before work started, so I grabbed my Bobbin mini 
> velo (Choco-Moose bars) and hit the road. It was fabulous.
> He also said, "You should never do a ride you wouldn't want to do every day. 
> Well maybe 4 times a year, 5 tops." I love that.
> 
> Joe "just (a short) ride" Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[LeahFoy]

The last run of Cheviots? Say it ain't so!

I can't speak to the Cheviot, but I have the Chev's forerunner, the Betty Foy 
and it's a lovely bike. It's also my only bike, and it will remain so because 
it is One Bike to Rule Them All. I am putting Bosco Bullmoose bars on it, and 
then I promise it cannot be improved upon. That sloping top tube is just so 
darn practical, and it adds a sexy quality to the bike - it looks like it's 
ready to take flight, if you ask me. It's smooth and stable and does every 
single thing I need it to do. It takes me on a very challenging school commute 
with my sons, and with racks and baskets and a saddlesack, it hauls all the 
necessary items, including the family dog, who rides in the Wald basket. I was 
initially set to get a Sam, because it seemed like bike folks didn't consider 
the mixte a serious bike, but when I called RBW, Keven listened to what I 
wanted in a bike and said, "Why not a Betty Foy? That's what I ride." And so I 
met the perfect bike. 

If these are the last run of Cheviots (really? It kills me to hear it!) I'd 
snag one.

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[RBW] Latest Roscoe Bubbe

[masmojo]

You know I've been thinking that although the  Rosoes are sort of "one offs" I 
can't help but think  some elements of these bike will reappear in the near 
future!
The funka tube (or whatever it's called), really helps to support the radically 
sloping top tube, which in turn invites a much taller head tube, which can then 
use a much shorter stem. All things that that support Grants general principles 
so far. Looks like the evolution of the ultimate upright  bicycle right before 
our eyes.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Kellie]

Tires= I LOVE the Rock and Roads. Use both on and off road. They wear 
great. I believe they're the maximum width the Cheviot can take.




On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:11 AM UTC-7, Derek Lawrence wrote:
>
> My wife has a Cheviot and I have a Sam. Both are setup almost identically 
> and ride wonderfully. The Chev is a bit plusher ride and extremely 
> comfortable. If I were to choose one for city and errand riding, it would 
> be the Cheviot. The longer chain stays make large panniers for groceries 
> easy, and having the low top tube more manageable with a load. Add a double 
> kickstand and you're set.
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:45:34 AM UTC-6, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>
>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>> bikes?
>>
>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>
>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>> East Aurora, NY
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Derek Lawrence]

My wife has a Cheviot and I have a Sam. Both are setup almost identically 
and ride wonderfully. The Chev is a bit plusher ride and extremely 
comfortable. If I were to choose one for city and errand riding, it would 
be the Cheviot. The longer chain stays make large panniers for groceries 
easy, and having the low top tube more manageable with a load. Add a double 
kickstand and you're set.


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:45:34 AM UTC-6, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I really 
do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the Cheviot 
when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being surprised by 
how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a "Mark's rack" that 
would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it would be an ideal 
around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but really like the 
orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  

I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
the trigger.

Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?

Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.

Thanks again,
Sean

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
> dig that Chev, buy it!

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[RBW] Cheviot (or Sam)

[Joe Bernard]

I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl bikes", 
but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get one. 
I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for another, then 
went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the blue with 
green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you dig that 
Chev, buy it!

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Philip Kim]

Hey Sean,

I've owned both the Chev & Sam, before switching to the Hunq which fit more 
of my fat tire needs, and the ability to shoulder my bike up and down my 
apartment stairs.

If  you don't have to carry the bike up and down any stairs and don't need 
room for more than 45mm tires, I think the Chev is an excellent choice for 
what you want. The Sam with albatross bars didn't quite work well even when 
I had it with a 110mm stem, my hands kept getting pushed to the curves, but 
the Albatross bars work so well with the Chev. I personally had a better 
time riding the Chev than the Sam.

If the Chev had cantis/v brakes, I would definitely have kept it. I still 
love my Hunq though.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Philip Kim]

such awesome builds

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 9:55:29 AM UTC-4, Gravel & Grind Espresso + 
Bikes wrote:
>
> If you live in the DC area, come on out to Gravel & Grind 
>  Sunday the 14th for our 
> Rivendell and Bridgestone Owners Bunch coffee ride and social. Details at 
> http://gravelandgrind.com/rivendell-bridgestone-coffee/ It looks like a 
> good turn so far but we wanna see tons of cool bikes and meet rad new 
> folks. Unrelated sort of, but these pics are from  recent Sam and Atlantis 
> builds we did. They’ll be at the shop to check out, along with a bunch of 
> other Riv bikes, framesets bags, etc.  
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Kellie]

Hi Sean: I have a green Cheviot and gave up my Sam to get it. It's set up 
also with Rock and Roads, front (with a basket) and rear rack, and I ride 
it everywhere; off road too (not technical single-track). I have 3 other 
bikes and the Cheviot gets the call most often. A little finagling to get a 
mixte on a bike rack, not the lightest bike in the herd but the most 
comfortable.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:45:34 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: WTT: Olive SaddleSack Large for Grey, black or Tan

[WETH]

Clayton,
Thanks for reminding me of your bag for sale.  I would rather trade but 
buying/selling is always an option. I'll ponder.
Thanks,
Erl 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Will]

A few years ago I bought a Motobecane Super Mirage Mixte (google it) from a 
woman up the street. It was $15, had been her daily commuter for years, and 
she'd had Suntour Command shifters installed. I bought it for the shifters 
figuring I'd never find a pair for $15. At the time I was riding a nice '83 
Trek 610. It had a Shimano 600 group and was a relaxed geometry sport-road 
bike. Within a week, the much nicer 610 was on the pegs and the mixte was 
my daily ride. The mixte was simply more fun. The diagonal top tube was a 
lot easier to lock at bike racks and b/c it was an old mixte, I felt it 
lacked the sex appeal for theft: no carbon bits, no disks, etc... I rode it 
for about 5 years, then got an Atlantis. 

If the mixte could have taken 38s or more I'd still be on it, but older 
frames tend to require narrow tires... and so I moved on.

I cannot imagine going wrong with a Riv mixte. You may be moving into 
grandfather mode within a few years. It's nice to have a really stiff rear 
with long stays. Perhaps, like me, you'll be hauling a Burley trailer. In 
the meantime a good rack, a set of panniers, on that rear will make the 
bike an unbeatable do-all. Go for it. 


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 7:45:34 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Cheviot (or Sam)

[Clayton.sf]

I have 3 other amazing bicycles, but the Cheviot is what I ride the most. Not 
that I would do a fast 200k on it or take it mountainbiking (I rides single 
track well enough though) but for most rides it is an amazing bike. Tends to 
put you in a different frame of mind. A very practical bike! I wrote a review 
of mine somewhere here. Do a search. 

Clayto Scott
SF, CA

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Re: [RBW] Cheviot (or Sam)

[Dan McNamara]

Hi Sean,

I have a Cheviot and have owned a Sam in the past. 

The Chev is set up with Albastache bars and a short stem. The Cheviot does ride 
differently that the Sam probably due to the longer chain stays. The Chev is a 
55 so 650B which might contributed of the difference as well. Both bikes were 
extremely stable and easy to ride. 

I never give the fact that the frame is Mixte-style a thought - It is really 
not that low. The bike is setup with front + rear racks and Rock n' Road tires 
and looks purposeful. It is a bike for hauling stuff and bike camping 
excursions. 

The Chev is one of the first batch is orange and I am not sure what has changed 
since but I wish it had a second set of bosses for a bottle cage. I can make up 
for it by tucking bottles into a bag but it would be nice to have another spot 
on the frame. 

All-in-all a great bike. 

Dan

San Rafael CA

> On Aug 9, 2016, at 5:45 AM, SeanMac  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's ago.  I 
> had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile when 
> I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was done on 
> the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  Perhaps it 
> was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  Strangely 
> enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I can't seem 
> to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, I have been 
> trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one before they 
> go away.  Here is my situation.
> 
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was quick-ish, 
> sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found it to be 
> increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I bought a Black 
> Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed geometry.  I really 
> love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob Brown, and has become 
> the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown typically sees the road 
> only once or twice a year - it is typically the bike that I use on my indoor 
> trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a grocery-getter.  However, it 
> does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, but it gets the job done.
> 
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly all 
> of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the Chev - 
> meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
> 
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the Cheviot.  
> I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike long term.  
> Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" thing is perhaps 
> an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of the lower top tube. 
>  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I did not even think about 
> the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was simply enjoying the ride.
> 
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or two) 
> to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the type of 
> riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that I see 
> myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in bikes?
> 
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up with 
> Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it up 
> with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the Cheviot?  
> Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without causing me 
> and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
> 
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
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[RBW] Betty Foy Sighting Seattle

[Frank]

Monday evening 8/8, you turned right off of 23rd between Cafe Lago and 
Mountlake Bicycle and cranked up the hill heading West. Gave a shout out 
but you were engaged. Great looking Blue Betty build for utility. A nice 
evening for a ride.

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[RBW] Some recent Gravel & Grind Riv builds and a last plug for our Riv and B-stone owners Bunch Ride Sunday the 14th

[Gravel & Grind Espresso + Bikes]

If you live in the DC area, come on out to Gravel & Grind 
 Sunday the 14th for our 
Rivendell and Bridgestone Owners Bunch coffee ride and social. Details at 
http://gravelandgrind.com/rivendell-bridgestone-coffee/ It looks like a 
good turn so far but we wanna see tons of cool bikes and meet rad new 
folks. Unrelated sort of, but these pics are from  recent Sam and Atlantis 
builds we did. They’ll be at the shop to check out, along with a bunch of 
other Riv bikes, framesets bags, etc.  






















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[RBW] Re: Olympic Bike Racing, Cobbles, and tire width

[ted]

Conventional wisdom in the racing crowd says that saving weight at the rim / 
tire is even more benificial than just saving weight in general. Not everyone 
holds with the notion that this is significant though. I believe the topic has 
been debated here in the past.

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[RBW] Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

Hi folks,

I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's ago.  
I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
before they go away.  Here is my situation.

About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
but it gets the job done.

In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly all 
of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the Chev 
- meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.

I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
simply enjoying the ride.

I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or two) 
to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the type of 
riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that I see 
myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in bikes?

What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?

Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean
East Aurora, NY

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[RBW] Re: Olympic Bike Racing, Cobbles, and tire width

[George Schick]

In addition to the aerodynamic advantages of skinny tires, tubulars, etc. 
in this discussion, I've always understood that *weight* out at the rim was 
a big factor as well.  IOW, the lighter the rim, tire, etc. the easier it 
is to maintain a high momentum (cadence), hence the use of these components 
by the pro's.

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 12:18:47 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Everyone looks like they are riding skinny, high pressure tires and 
> jouncing heavily on the cobbles in the women’s race this morning. I’m 
> surprised no one has paid attention to Jan.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.OurHolyConception.org 
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Swiss Army Bicycle (literally)

[Ron Mc]

they're about the same price new at *Sportsman's Guide* 

 


On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 10:08:03 PM UTC-5, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Swiss-Army-MO-93-Military-Condor-Pinzgauer-Bicycle-/182232389669?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a6de59825:g:ib8AAOSwnQhXpMVU&item=182232389669
>
> Someone here should buy this!  It's strangely similar to a Rivendell!
>
> m
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Olympic Bike Racing, Cobbles, and tire width

[ascpgh]

When picking tires for that course, I wonder how many considered the 
moisture? That section where the Dutch rider went down looked moist, like 
from condensing moisture. Back when special compound tires were just 
landing in stores and folks buying them were finding out themselves that 
their oddly high traction had oddly huge losses of such in wet conditions, 
not from warning labels on the packaging. 

I was behind a rider on those early grey compound Specialized tires on a 
switchbacking descent of a mountain (AR Hwy 74, riding the now titled 
"Jasper Disaster" route) where in the lower half of the elevation drop the 
canopy was very full over the turns and a trickle of water ran across the 
apex of the turn. It was exactly like the images you see of racers in a 
city street corner who cross the paint of a crosswalk if slightly wet: 
flick, slam!. one smooth, accelerating motion to the ground. 

I didn't notice special tires at Rio, but I'm sure racers don't show their 
cards with colored treads. That road, under canopy and a descent from a 
"jungle" makes me think with a high dew point, an area under cover from the 
sun like that would condensate frequently, and some moss/algae would exist, 
an like a wooden deck with the same problem, just add water to see an 
amazing loss of traction. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 3:08:03 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:
>
> On a cobbled course like Paris Roubaix, some pro racers ride 28mm 
> tubulars--not 42mm 650b Compass tires, but not 23mm racing tubulars either. 
> Pro racers can also change bikes mid-race. Chris Froome changed bike when 
> they began the second circuit during the Olymplic men's road race. Given 
> what happened to the Men's race a day ahead (when two out of the three in 
> the leading group crashed on the descent and the third lost the lead in the 
> final meters), I think it is a highly reasonable strategy for the women 
> racers to switch to bike sporting 28mm tubulars with lower pressure for the 
> descent to maintain speed while staying safe. But none did it, and a racer 
> in the lead group crashed again!
>
> Jan did have access to wind tunnel in his early tire tests, not sure if 
> the resource is available to him and BQ anymore. I don't recall the wide 
> tires being disadvantaged because of aerodynamics in his tests. Jan's 
> premise was always that on smooth as baby's face tarmac, skinny and 
> high-pressured tires maintain their advantage, but on pavement of everyday 
> (and lesser) quality, then the dampening from the wider tires to prevent 
> vibration loss win out. I don't think he rides tires only because he likes 
> them, but because they offer real performance advantages in the conditions 
> described. Having been to Brazil and the very highway that the race was on, 
> I recall that pavement quality is uneven at best. I wouldn't be surprised 
> if someone riding high-quality 700cx32mm tires can maintain the same 
> performance as when they ride 23mm tubulars.
>
> But of course race bikes have to be constructed to fit tires that wide 
> (they already do up to 28mm for Paris-Roubaix)
>
> Franklyn
>
> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 11:26:55 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> Well, Patrick, it was a beautiful ride and a very gallant effort... and 
>> in defeat she was extremely gracious..I was cheering for her and gutted 
>> about the young Dutchwoman Van Vleuten's crash. That's why I  feel bike 
>> racing is an epic sport in the truest sense of the word and I still 
>> continue to watch it despite all the doping BS...and in the Olympics 
>> despite the noise and BS  you still have these profoundly uplifting 
>> moments. Maybe the Olympics give us a chance to get in touch with our 
>> better natures. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 12:23:44 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> This WSJ article by Jason Gay does a great job of capturing the bike 
>>> race in a stunningly Rivendelian spirit, as evidenced by the Headline: 
>>> "Mara Abbott's Beautiful Ride in Rio": 
>>>
>>> http://www.wsj.com/articles/mara-abbotts-beautiful-ride-in-rio-1470615782?mod=rss_Sports
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 10:57:11 AM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Aha, the Olympics -- those things. I forgot about them. Unfortunately, 
 no TV ... Am trying to catch glimpses on youtube.

>
>>> Patrick: I've been watching on NBColympics.com.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Latest Roscoe Bubbe

[Garth]

Isn't if funny how we search for the right word to describe color ! 

I say the color is what it is , in whom it is.  

The color speaks for itself .

Nice !

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[RBW] Re: Olympic Bike Racing, Cobbles, and tire width

[Garth]

Thanks for the clarity Mark !  

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