[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I see where you are coming from. Making a clear distinction between a touring frame and an all rounder designed for long reach brakes and bigger tires could be difficult. However I'm not so sure that a MUP is the best place to notice a clear difference between narrow tires or wider tires. In my area bike paths are generally flat, smooth, narrow, crowded in the summer and inconvenient to get to but then I live in a rural setting and riding on the open road is what I must do if I want to ride at all. Were it me, I would build up a lightweight ( under 20 pounds) single speed for the MUP and gear it maximally for whatever terrain that happened to be. If you don't ever plan to tour, racks and all, maybe sell the Atlantis but that is such a useful bike I would keep it. I think you would be crazy to trade your Hilsen for a Ram , gee whiz ,the Hilsen is such a better bike overall. My advice, get some Jack Browns or something in the 32mm wide lightweight neighborhood and pump them up for your weight and don't give it another thought. In the meantime, get your Atlantis all racked out with bags and camping gear and plan a tour out in the country or several overnighters on the weekend. Lastly you may want to look into having a custom built frame with all the bells and whistles for your style of riding..a skinnier tire bike that can still take fenders and loaded with braze ons for racks etc. More of a Brevet bike, oh wait, that describes the Hilsen.. h! On Dec 3, 6:34 am, Shawn wrote: > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > least a Mark type rack. > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > between the two bikes. > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > feedback. > Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
> my dogs hike, run, swim, and > retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's > easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- > sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in "field > activities. Probably a lot more clever and better behaved than most breeds as well. People get trapped in categories. Too bad. On Dec 4, 4:30 pm, Patrick in VT wrote: > On Dec 4, 11:03 am, JoelMatthews wrote: > > > However, if you look around most riding web sites, and engage in > > conversation with people about bikes on a regular basis, there is a > > decidedly marked tendency to refer to racers and racing bikes as > > 'serious' and other uses 'casual.' > > my poodles feel the same way. they take offense to being grouped in > the "non-sporting" breed group, especially when we see all those pudgy > labradors with custom collars and haughty weimaraners, who really look > the part with those sleek lines but are quite clueless when it comes > to actual "sporting." and then there are those perfectly groomed > setters that only fetch on the weekends. my dogs hike, run, swim, and > retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's > easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- > sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in "field > activities." > > i've argued this point with sporting breed owners ad nauseum and > written to the AKC, but nobody seems to care. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
See that is the beauty of us being casual riders. We have the time on our hands to know and know when to use a classic Clint Eastwood quote. Those serious riders just don't know what they are missing. On Dec 4, 4:42 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 14:30 -0800, Patrick in VT wrote: > > my poodles feel the same way. they take offense to being grouped in > > the "non-sporting" breed group, especially when we see all those pudgy > > labradors with custom collars and haughty weimaraners, who really look > > the part with those sleek lines but are quite clueless when it comes > > to actual "sporting." and then there are those perfectly groomed > > setters that only fetch on the weekends. my dogs hike, run, swim, and > > retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's > > easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- > > sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in "field > > activities." > > You know what that reminds me of? > > "I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like > people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if > you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that > you really didn't mean it." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? I don't think so. The Rambouillet has about 5mm less of the exact same tubing per fork end; which makes it less adaptable, should you decide to switch back to larger tires. http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=saluki.10502.0058.eml I'd strip it down, build a relatively light wheelset and use great tires if I wanted a dedicated go-fast bike. John McMurry Burlington, VT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 14:30 -0800, Patrick in VT wrote: > my poodles feel the same way. they take offense to being grouped in > the "non-sporting" breed group, especially when we see all those pudgy > labradors with custom collars and haughty weimaraners, who really look > the part with those sleek lines but are quite clueless when it comes > to actual "sporting." and then there are those perfectly groomed > setters that only fetch on the weekends. my dogs hike, run, swim, and > retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's > easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- > sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in "field > activities." You know what that reminds me of? "I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 4, 11:03 am, JoelMatthews wrote: > However, if you look around most riding web sites, and engage in > conversation with people about bikes on a regular basis, there is a > decidedly marked tendency to refer to racers and racing bikes as > 'serious' and other uses 'casual.' my poodles feel the same way. they take offense to being grouped in the "non-sporting" breed group, especially when we see all those pudgy labradors with custom collars and haughty weimaraners, who really look the part with those sleek lines but are quite clueless when it comes to actual "sporting." and then there are those perfectly groomed setters that only fetch on the weekends. my dogs hike, run, swim, and retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in "field activities." i've argued this point with sporting breed owners ad nauseum and written to the AKC, but nobody seems to care. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/4/2009 1:51:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com writes: Very interesting, as I'm a Campy fan. Is this the Record gruppo with alloy cranks and levers or carbon? Do you have any photos online? It's the carbon Record gruppo. I had not intended to use this with the Rambouillet frame but the dark carbon with the dark green frame looked spectacular. Sorry, no photos online. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Very interesting, as I'm a Campy fan. Is this the Record gruppo with alloy cranks and levers or carbon? Do you have any photos online? On Dec 4, 10:07 am, bpus...@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/4/2009 10:49:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > whalen...@gmail.com writes: > > How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? > > Actually, pretty easy. I got mine under 20 lbs by using Campy Record 10 > speed components and Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels - which I find to be > indestructible. The other stuff is all Nitto, Brooks, SPD pedals. > > Bill > Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/4/2009 10:49:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, whalen...@gmail.com writes: How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? Actually, pretty easy. I got mine under 20 lbs by using Campy Record 10 speed components and Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels - which I find to be indestructible. The other stuff is all Nitto, Brooks, SPD pedals. Bill Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
on 12/4/09 7:11 AM, David Faller at dfal...@charter.net wrote: I second the motion. Most "serious" riders (racers) that I encounter have a sole focus. They know nothing about their bike, they don't use it for anything other than sporting equipment. The bike doesn't fit right, is ill-maintained, etc. but the rider has on the cutting edge kit. Looks the part, but couldn't tell you about one component on the bike. Why is that more serious than what I do? I don't really think it's appropriate to draw lines or make generalizations about "most" riders of any interest. Aside from that, it's really outside of the focus of this group and the topic of this thread. Thanks! - Jim / list admin -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines "I thought the idea was to waste the rest of our lives together.." -- Cyril, "Breaking Away" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I've found randonneuring to be a happy medium between racing and ... well I don't know what, "serious" riding? When I first started cycling "seriously" (ie every single day I had off work for 8 to 9hrs and early in the morning before work and school) I did do some mountain bike races. It was an interesting experience but not one that sucked me in. It just seemed a bit too nerve wracking. For years I rode with a club (I use that term very loosely) where we would head out for fast short rides and all day slogs on mountain and road bikes every weekend. It was a nice group of people who were fun to ride with, some of whom raced. When I moved to Portland 3yrs ago I stumbled upon randonneuring and love it. My first year my main goal was to just have fun and finish the rides. A 200k requires a bit of "seriousness" even if you're going at a leisurely pace. The second year, this year, I tried to complete my brevets a little faster. I was shooting for R70 times (see http://www.cyclosmontagnards.org/R80Rules.html for details). This did add some pressure but not in the same way racing does. I maintained R70 times for the 200k, 300k and 400k, brevets but the 600k brevet was all about survival (http://randobooks.blogspot.com/ 2009/06/oregon-600km-xtr.html). As for next year, my goals are to complete another super randonneur series and maybe complete a Cyclos Montagnards challenge with my friend Joshua. I probably ride a lot more than serious racers but I would never throw myself in with that lot. I just love cycling. 16+ years of steady cycling and I remain obsessed with getting on my bike and heading out for long adventurous slogs like this one 2 days ago: http://cycles-j-bryant.blogspot.com/2009/12/wilderness-mtn-road.html Crud, I need to get into work. Time to hop on the bike. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
>But the tone of disdain for racers who aren't as interested as "we" are in the >fine points of the bike as a beautiful >machine, but simply see it as a tool >for their particular kind of exercise, seems misguided to me. > Any bike that's on the road -- with the possible exception of those under > militantly rude riders, and I don't see racers as mostly being in that > category -- ought to be seen as a plus. Critical mass is our friend, I guess > is what I'm saying. Plenty of room for all types of riders, and no real > utility in characterizing one type as more "serious" than another. Don't have disdain for racing. It is a particular hobby that does not interest me. It seems a wonderful pass time for many and I would certainly recommend those with an interest to participate. However, if you look around most riding web sites, and engage in conversation with people about bikes on a regular basis, there is a decidedly marked tendency to refer to racers and racing bikes as 'serious' and other uses 'casual.' Certainly no one would say auto racing is a more serious endeavor than those who use an auto to get around. Unless you are one of the very few people who make a sustainable living racing bikes, racing is a fun diversion from your day to day life. Nothing wrong with that. It just is not cyclings highest form. And for the record, I am perfectly fine with someone saying there is no highest form of cycling - just different. On Dec 4, 9:45 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J" wrote: > Well, I'm mostly an interested reader of the posts here, rather than an > active poster/participant in the discussions. And I'm about as far from a > racer as one can get -- a 56 year old guy with a recently resurrected > interest in bikes and riding, prompted in equal measures by the need for > better fitness and having stumbled on the fascinating iconoclastic ideas on > the Riv site. But the tone of disdain for racers who aren't as interested as > "we" are in the fine points of the bike as a beautiful machine, but simply > see it as a tool for their particular kind of exercise, seems misguided to me. > > Any bike that's on the road -- with the possible exception of those under > militantly rude riders, and I don't see racers as mostly being in that > category -- ought to be seen as a plus. Critical mass is our friend, I guess > is what I'm saying. Plenty of room for all types of riders, and no real > utility in characterizing one type as more "serious" than another. > > -Original Message- > From: JoelMatthews [mailto:joelmatth...@mac.com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:07 AM > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike > > > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > > get comfortable. > > Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow > 'casual riders.' > > In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to > ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends > and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone > using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. > > On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris wrote: > > > I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we > > all accept racers need a light & nimble bike, but object to the > > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > > get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > > On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, "Bill M." wrote: > > It may be heresy around here, but racers > > > > ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > ------ > > > To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you > that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained > in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, > for the purpose of (i) avoiding t
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
How about Hilsen as a 650B randonneur: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaptainamerika/4154581242/in/pool-650b Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Dec 4, 7:49 am, Timothy Whalen wrote: > How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? Do you find a few pounds difference > on the bike make a noticeable difference in the ride? > Thanks, > Tim > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Bruce wrote: > > Keven (of RBW) races CX iirc, on a Legolas. Another rider in recent memory > > captured a national age group title on a Legolas as well, I remember > > reading. I can get my Ram down to 20 lbs and race it (and it out handles > > many more carboneseque racers), although the problem with that is my legs > > don't have what it takes to succeed. > > > And of course, the Roadeo is aimed at a go-faster crowd than the typical > > Hilsen rider. > > > -- > > *From:* Kris > > *To:* RBW Owners Bunch > > *Sent:* Fri, December 4, 2009 8:22:55 AM > > *Subject:* [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike > > > This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? Do you find a few pounds difference on the bike make a noticeable difference in the ride? Thanks, Tim On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Bruce wrote: > Keven (of RBW) races CX iirc, on a Legolas. Another rider in recent memory > captured a national age group title on a Legolas as well, I remember > reading. I can get my Ram down to 20 lbs and race it (and it out handles > many more carboneseque racers), although the problem with that is my legs > don't have what it takes to succeed. > > And of course, the Roadeo is aimed at a go-faster crowd than the typical > Hilsen rider. > > -- > *From:* Kris > *To:* RBW Owners Bunch > *Sent:* Fri, December 4, 2009 8:22:55 AM > *Subject:* [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike > > This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Well, I'm mostly an interested reader of the posts here, rather than an active poster/participant in the discussions. And I'm about as far from a racer as one can get -- a 56 year old guy with a recently resurrected interest in bikes and riding, prompted in equal measures by the need for better fitness and having stumbled on the fascinating iconoclastic ideas on the Riv site. But the tone of disdain for racers who aren't as interested as "we" are in the fine points of the bike as a beautiful machine, but simply see it as a tool for their particular kind of exercise, seems misguided to me. Any bike that's on the road -- with the possible exception of those under militantly rude riders, and I don't see racers as mostly being in that category -- ought to be seen as a plus. Critical mass is our friend, I guess is what I'm saying. Plenty of room for all types of riders, and no real utility in characterizing one type as more "serious" than another. -Original Message- From: JoelMatthews [mailto:joelmatth...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:07 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow 'casual riders.' In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris wrote: > I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we > all accept racers need a light & nimble bike, but object to the > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, "Bill M." wrote: > It may be heresy around here, but racers > > > > > ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Keven (of RBW) races CX iirc, on a Legolas. Another rider in recent memory captured a national age group title on a Legolas as well, I remember reading. I can get my Ram down to 20 lbs and race it (and it out handles many more carboneseque racers), although the problem with that is my legs don't have what it takes to succeed. And of course, the Roadeo is aimed at a go-faster crowd than the typical Hilsen rider. From: Kris To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 8:22:55 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I second the motion. Most "serious" riders (racers) that I encounter have a sole focus. They know nothing about their bike, they don't use it for anything other than sporting equipment. The bike doesn't fit right, is ill-maintained, etc. but the rider has on the cutting edge kit. Looks the part, but couldn't tell you about one component on the bike. Why is that more serious than what I do? - Original Message - From: JoelMatthews To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow 'casual riders.' In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris wrote: > I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we > all accept racers need a light & nimble bike, but object to the > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, "Bill M." wrote: > It may be heresy around here, but racers > > > > > ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
> marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow 'casual riders.' In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris wrote: > I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we > all accept racers need a light & nimble bike, but object to the > marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never > get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell > & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" > > On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, "Bill M." wrote: > It may be heresy around here, but racers > > > > > ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we all accept racers need a light & nimble bike, but object to the marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell & Grant - "Grant hates racing bikes and racers!" On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, "Bill M." wrote: It may be heresy around here, but racers > ride racing bikes for a reason. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Not that I can maintain 20 mph any more -- I could, solo, in my youthful 40s; I can still maintain 18 solo on a flat out and back -- but as to Rivs being slower because of the favored riding position, let me say ad contram that the butt back position that Rivs encourage is, for me, precisely the position that gives me a low back and a lot of power. I wish I had had my two customs made with 72 seat tube angles instead of 72; as it is, I literally use a rubber mallet to get the saddles (Flites) all the way back on the considerable-offset older Dura Ace posts. Bars on short (8 cm) stems 2" below saddle. A steeper st angle would, for me, be awkward and slow. I would not discount a Riv design for fast riding --or, for that matter, for low bars. Lastly, I am not sure, but I think that older racing bikes (I have a 1973 Motobecane Grand Record; I used to own an oldish school 1989 Falcon) have geometries similar to the Rivs: long rear-center, short front-center, slacker st angles, encouraging a butt back position good for power and good weight balance for precise handling. The Motobecane mimics my Rivs quite well -- which is why I like it. YMMV, of course. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Bill M. wrote: > Shawn, > > This thread has taken off on wheels and tires, so I'd like to propose > another factor to consider - position. > > I have an old Riv Road Standard that was my go-fast bike for many > years. After a gap of a few years spent mostly riding a recumbent I > returned to the Riv and took it on a few rides with the local club. > Now, this club as a rule rides fast and hard (cruising at 20+, bursts > to 28 mph on the last flatland ride I did with them), and I found that > sitting relatively upright on the Riv was not working for that kind of > effort. I tried adjusting the Riv for a sportier position, but wasn't > able to get it to 'gel'. I wound up falling into a deal on a modern > racing frame with a slightly shorter top tube and steeper seat angle > than the Riv, and darned if I'm not both faster and more comfortable > *for that kind of riding*. It may be heresy around here, but racers > ride racing bikes for a reason. When I'm taking it easy on my own or > riding with a slower friend I don't ride the racer, it would beat me > up too much. That's when I ride either the Riv (with the bars back up > where Grant intended and the widest tires that will fit), or my 650b > wheeled Kogswell, either of which are more at home at an easier pace. > > The AHH is built to be even slacker and more upright than my old Riv > Road was. I'd say try light wheels and tires on the AHH as a go-fast, > but recognize that it may not let you get into an optimal position for > sporting riding. If it's not what you need, and a new Roadeo is out > of reach, start scanning Craigslist or ebay for something used that > might work better for you. There are deals to be had if you're > patient - my go-fast frame cost me just over 1/3 of the price of a new > one, and it looked essentially new when I picked it up. > > Bill > > On Dec 3, 6:34 am, Shawn wrote: > > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > > least a Mark type rack. > > > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > > between the two bikes. > > > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > > feedback. > > Shawn > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the G
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Jim, Living in sunny southern California, I've never had much need to fender my Romulus -- and hence never have. According to Riv's Romulus catalog specs, it is supposed to be able to take a 32 mm tire with fenders or 35 without, so I'm confident my Romulus could fit fenders and the Challenge tires. It also uses the standard reach brakes. My understanding of the old Road Standard that you have is that it uses short reach brakes. Right? If so, it probably tighter clearance than the Romulus. I don't own a micrometer, so I can't comment with any accuracy on the width, but I seem to recall measuring the height once at about 28-29 mm from the top of the rim to the top of the tread. They're definitely plumper than their 27 mm label and I'd be inclined to agree with others who say they're more like 28-30 wide. >From what I remember of the Pasela non-TG in 28 (which I briefly tried before the Challenge), the Challenge are roughly the same width and height on my Mavic Open Pro, if that gives you anything to grab onto for comparison's sake. (But the Challenge are a much nicer tire!) I hope this helps. Aaron On Dec 3, 5:01 pm, Jim Cloud wrote: > Aaron, > Just curious, does your Romulus have fenders? If so, what kind and is > there a decent amount of clearance? > > I'm presently running a set of Panaracer Category Pro tires on my > Rivendell Road Standard (this is one of the original models, made in > 1996). The tires are marked 700x28C, but they actually measure closer > to 25mm in height and width mounted on Mavic MA2 rims. I'm able to > install or remove the tires from my bike with deflating them (although > the clearance with my Suntour Superbe Pro sidepull caliper brakes > doesn't make removal easy). At some point, I'm probably going to buy > either the Grand Bois Cerf tires (Blue or Green label) or the > Challenge Paris-Roubaix, but I'd like to keep my fenders mounted on my > bike. > > I'd appreciate your reply. > > Jim Cloud > Tucson, AZ > > On Dec 3, 4:08 pm, Aaron Thomas wrote: > > > I use the Challenge on my Romulus, from time to time. They're very > > nice. They were a pain to mount on my Mavic Open Pro the first time, > > but have since stretched and when I go back to re-mount them, they go > > on relatively easily now. > > > They are slightly plumper than a Roll-y Pol-y or Ruffy Tuffy, but not > > by much. In my experience they roll faster than both, though the RP/RT > > seem to have better grip in wet conditions (the Challenge slid around > > a in a couple of wet corners, though I didn't lose control and bite > > it). The herringbone tread pattern leads to some road hum and > > vibration that the semi-slick RP/RT don't have, but it isn't anything > > too bad. > > > The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). As > > for flat resistance, the Challenge have been good and comparable to > > the RT/RP: only one flat so far. (I never had a single flat on my > > Ruffy Tuffies and perhaps only 1 flat on my RPs.) > > > Their price is a bit steep, but if that is no deterrent, they're > > definitely worth trying. > > > A > > > On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 14:19 -0800, R Gonet wrote: > > > > While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has > > > > anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at > > > > Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > > > > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. > > > > A friend of mine is using them on his Rambouillet. He can't stop raving > > > about how nice they are. I believe they measure 28mm. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 12:01 pm, Shawn wrote: > Good point, I do love the Hilsen, I was just under the impression that > the Ram was more of a road type of bike than the Hilsen. I will > definitely experiment with different types of tires and set ups before > I do any trading or selling. Hey Shawn, I have a Rambouillet and a Hilsen. I have the Ram currently set-up with RTs and the Hilsen with Panarcer T-serves (700x35, basically like a Pasela but more durrable). There are differences with both bikes. The Ram is a 62 and the Hilsen a 63. The Ram sometimes feels faster but the Hilsen is more comfortable. There are slight differences in the way they're set-up. I've ridden tons of centuries on each and complete brevet series on each. Both have worked well. Still, if I had to choose one I'd keep the Hilsen hands down. It makes a great road bike. Hell, if I had the funds... I'd have two Hilsens, one set up with big tires, no fenders, triple and BE shifters and another set up with DT shifters, fenders and JB greens. The Hilsen is a great bike. As for tires... over the past three years I've been riding bigger tires (JBs, Paselas, Contacts, Schwalbe and T-serves). I like the shape and feel of the JB but I was using the blues and they did feel a bit dead. I really like Paselas but had problems with the sidewalls. The T-Serves are good. The Contacts... not so much. The Schwalbe Marathons that I toured on this past summer were great for touring on and off road but I don't know that I'd want to use them all the time. I think after the T-serves die I'll try some Marathon Supremes. I'm not sure what tires I'll use next year for brevets. I'm sure I'll go back and forth. Durability and dependibility trump speed for me when it comes to brevets so I may go with T-serves. Given what people here have said you might want to try some JB greens. If you like those, or some similar tire, why not just get some lighter wheels built up? Have fun exploring your options. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Shawn, This thread has taken off on wheels and tires, so I'd like to propose another factor to consider - position. I have an old Riv Road Standard that was my go-fast bike for many years. After a gap of a few years spent mostly riding a recumbent I returned to the Riv and took it on a few rides with the local club. Now, this club as a rule rides fast and hard (cruising at 20+, bursts to 28 mph on the last flatland ride I did with them), and I found that sitting relatively upright on the Riv was not working for that kind of effort. I tried adjusting the Riv for a sportier position, but wasn't able to get it to 'gel'. I wound up falling into a deal on a modern racing frame with a slightly shorter top tube and steeper seat angle than the Riv, and darned if I'm not both faster and more comfortable *for that kind of riding*. It may be heresy around here, but racers ride racing bikes for a reason. When I'm taking it easy on my own or riding with a slower friend I don't ride the racer, it would beat me up too much. That's when I ride either the Riv (with the bars back up where Grant intended and the widest tires that will fit), or my 650b wheeled Kogswell, either of which are more at home at an easier pace. The AHH is built to be even slacker and more upright than my old Riv Road was. I'd say try light wheels and tires on the AHH as a go-fast, but recognize that it may not let you get into an optimal position for sporting riding. If it's not what you need, and a new Roadeo is out of reach, start scanning Craigslist or ebay for something used that might work better for you. There are deals to be had if you're patient - my go-fast frame cost me just over 1/3 of the price of a new one, and it looked essentially new when I picked it up. Bill On Dec 3, 6:34 am, Shawn wrote: > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > least a Mark type rack. > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > between the two bikes. > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > feedback. > Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 5:19 pm, R Gonet wrote: > They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. I ride these. definitely my favorite 700c tire. measure closer to 29/30 on my rims. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Aaron, Just curious, does your Romulus have fenders? If so, what kind and is there a decent amount of clearance? I'm presently running a set of Panaracer Category Pro tires on my Rivendell Road Standard (this is one of the original models, made in 1996). The tires are marked 700x28C, but they actually measure closer to 25mm in height and width mounted on Mavic MA2 rims. I'm able to install or remove the tires from my bike with deflating them (although the clearance with my Suntour Superbe Pro sidepull caliper brakes doesn't make removal easy). At some point, I'm probably going to buy either the Grand Bois Cerf tires (Blue or Green label) or the Challenge Paris-Roubaix, but I'd like to keep my fenders mounted on my bike. I'd appreciate your reply. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Dec 3, 4:08 pm, Aaron Thomas wrote: > I use the Challenge on my Romulus, from time to time. They're very > nice. They were a pain to mount on my Mavic Open Pro the first time, > but have since stretched and when I go back to re-mount them, they go > on relatively easily now. > > They are slightly plumper than a Roll-y Pol-y or Ruffy Tuffy, but not > by much. In my experience they roll faster than both, though the RP/RT > seem to have better grip in wet conditions (the Challenge slid around > a in a couple of wet corners, though I didn't lose control and bite > it). The herringbone tread pattern leads to some road hum and > vibration that the semi-slick RP/RT don't have, but it isn't anything > too bad. > > The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). As > for flat resistance, the Challenge have been good and comparable to > the RT/RP: only one flat so far. (I never had a single flat on my > Ruffy Tuffies and perhaps only 1 flat on my RPs.) > > Their price is a bit steep, but if that is no deterrent, they're > definitely worth trying. > > A > > On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 14:19 -0800, R Gonet wrote: > > > While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has > > > anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at > > > Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > > > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. > > > A friend of mine is using them on his Rambouillet. He can't stop raving > > about how nice they are. I believe they measure 28mm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I am sure the Challenge is a great tire. My point remains if you ride most of the time on paved surface, it will be even better without tread. May look odd to some eyes, but the ride will be more smooth. On Dec 3, 5:50 pm, bpus...@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/3/2009 6:28:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > joelmatth...@mac.com writes: > > The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > > > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). > > Based on everything I have read, Challenge tires have excellent > components and craftsmanship. If you only ride on pavement, the tread > at most establishes trade dress. > > Here's my experience with the Challenge tire: Had my first flat (slow leak > due to road grit) at 785 miles on the rear tire. Put a kevlar liner on the > rear and have ridden an additional 572 miles without a flat on either tire. > All miles, except for 8 miles of gravel roads, were on paved, although at > time, roughly paved roads. The tread on both tires still looks excellent. > > In my opinion, the Challenge tire is the best tire I have ever ridden on. > It's unbelievably comfortable, fast, and the durability, admittedly after > only 1357 miles, is acceptable. > > Bill > Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/3/2009 6:28:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, joelmatth...@mac.com writes: The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). Based on everything I have read, Challenge tires have excellent components and craftsmanship. If you only ride on pavement, the tread at most establishes trade dress. Here's my experience with the Challenge tire: Had my first flat (slow leak due to road grit) at 785 miles on the rear tire. Put a kevlar liner on the rear and have ridden an additional 572 miles without a flat on either tire. All miles, except for 8 miles of gravel roads, were on paved, although at time, roughly paved roads. The tread on both tires still looks excellent. In my opinion, the Challenge tire is the best tire I have ever ridden on. It's unbelievably comfortable, fast, and the durability, admittedly after only 1357 miles, is acceptable. Bill Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
> The herringbone tread pattern leads to some road hum and > vibration that the semi-slick RP/RT don't have, but it isn't anything > too bad. > > The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). Based on everything I have read, Challenge tires have excellent components and craftsmanship. If you only ride on pavement, the tread at most establishes trade dress. Exactly for the reasons you note, I wish there were more high quality wider treadless tires on the market. On Dec 3, 5:08 pm, Aaron Thomas wrote: > I use the Challenge on my Romulus, from time to time. They're very > nice. They were a pain to mount on my Mavic Open Pro the first time, > but have since stretched and when I go back to re-mount them, they go > on relatively easily now. > > They are slightly plumper than a Roll-y Pol-y or Ruffy Tuffy, but not > by much. In my experience they roll faster than both, though the RP/RT > seem to have better grip in wet conditions (the Challenge slid around > a in a couple of wet corners, though I didn't lose control and bite > it). The herringbone tread pattern leads to some road hum and > vibration that the semi-slick RP/RT don't have, but it isn't anything > too bad. > > The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and > is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are > shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). As > for flat resistance, the Challenge have been good and comparable to > the RT/RP: only one flat so far. (I never had a single flat on my > Ruffy Tuffies and perhaps only 1 flat on my RPs.) > > Their price is a bit steep, but if that is no deterrent, they're > definitely worth trying. > > A > > On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 14:19 -0800, R Gonet wrote: > > > While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has > > > anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at > > > Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > > > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. > > > A friend of mine is using them on his Rambouillet. He can't stop raving > > about how nice they are. I believe they measure 28mm.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I use the Challenge on my Romulus, from time to time. They're very nice. They were a pain to mount on my Mavic Open Pro the first time, but have since stretched and when I go back to re-mount them, they go on relatively easily now. They are slightly plumper than a Roll-y Pol-y or Ruffy Tuffy, but not by much. In my experience they roll faster than both, though the RP/RT seem to have better grip in wet conditions (the Challenge slid around a in a couple of wet corners, though I didn't lose control and bite it). The herringbone tread pattern leads to some road hum and vibration that the semi-slick RP/RT don't have, but it isn't anything too bad. The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). As for flat resistance, the Challenge have been good and comparable to the RT/RP: only one flat so far. (I never had a single flat on my Ruffy Tuffies and perhaps only 1 flat on my RPs.) Their price is a bit steep, but if that is no deterrent, they're definitely worth trying. A On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 14:19 -0800, R Gonet wrote: > > While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has > > anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at > > Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. > > A friend of mine is using them on his Rambouillet. He can't stop raving > about how nice they are. I believe they measure 28mm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 14:19 -0800, R Gonet wrote: > While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has > anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at > Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has > them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. A friend of mine is using them on his Rambouillet. He can't stop raving about how nice they are. I believe they measure 28mm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I know this has been said - but what are the differences in terms of geometry and tubing gauge of the Ram/Rom and the Hilsen? One thing to consider over longer distances is fatigue. Lower PSI, larger tires can provide more comfort, which matters over long distances. I agree with Jim. Many of us have multiple "all-rounders," set up different enough to justify their cohabitation in our garages (or bedrooms, as in my case). Some have fenders, racks, lowriders, others are spartan rides with a burrito wrap. They can take narrow or fat tires, and they do. That's difference enough! Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Dec 3, 1:49 pm, James Warren wrote: > AHH unloaded, or set up as light as you can for your needs, with some Jack > Brown tires, is an outstanding road bike. I can't decide if it or Rambouillet > is my favorite. > > > > -Original Message- > >From: Shawn > >Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:34 AM > >To: RBW Owners Bunch > >Subject: [RBW] AHH as a road bike > > >Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > >more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > >on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > >ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > >ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > >am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > >Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > >events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > >clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > >I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > >Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > >finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > >am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > >least a Mark type rack. > > >Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > >should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > >that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > >between the two bikes. > > >Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > >feedback. > >Shawn > > >-- > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >"RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group > >athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
While we're talking about boosting performance with a tire change, has anyone considered the Challenge Paris-Roubaix tires that Jan sells at Vintage Bicycling? They are supposed to be very fast. If anyone has them, I'd like to know what the 27 mm tires actually measure. On Dec 3, 4:49 pm, James Warren wrote: > AHH unloaded, or set up as light as you can for your needs, with some Jack > Brown tires, is an outstanding road bike. I can't decide if it or Rambouillet > is my favorite. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
But his Woolistic jersey from RBW is spot on... From: Aaron Thomas By the way, this guy's bike build was rather unconventional in Rivendell's scheme of things -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I won't enter into the tire width debate. But I will offer the following data point. On a timed group ride a couple of years ago this guy came in 21st out of 107 on a Hilsen with 23 mm Continental tires: http://tinyurl.com/yldr4yv I didn't get to talk to him about how the Hilsen handled with 23s, but when considering the race results, the skinny tires don't seem to have been a detriment. Whether fatter tires would have made him faster is impossible to know, I suppose, but I somehow doubt it, given that the route was essentially one long climb from beginning to end, with some sections with steep gradients. By the way, this guy's bike build was rather unconventional in Rivendell's scheme of things: he had a threadless fork/stem, Campagnolo wheels, and a Campagnolo Record gruppo, which included carbon cranks and levers. I would imagine that his Hilsen was considerably lighter than a more typical Riv build. All of which is a long-winded way of saying that at least one person out there has transformed an ostensibly "country bike" Hilsen into a "road" bike and is successfully using it in that guise. Aaron On Dec 3, 10:46 am, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:09 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > > > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > > *weak* function of tire width. In other words, tire width had > > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > > Does anyone here have the article? > > Yeah I do as do several of us, and Jan reads this mailing list too. > I've always had some problem with that particular report which I've > discussed with Jan at great length (without convincing him nor he > convincing me). However, the results did match pretty well with what > one would expect (tries with thick rubber being slower, tires with > knobbier treads being slower, etc.). > > However in the last issue of BQ they published a *very* interesting > test using a Tune PowerTap to measure the power necessary to maintain > speed over smooth and rough pavement. In both cases they found the > fatter, softer tires (a Panaracer Pasela 700 x 37) to take less power > than a skinny hard tire (Bontrager 700 x 25) to maintain the same > speed. Over smooth pavement the differences were smaller but still > significant; over rough pavement the differences were startling. I > found this article fascinating and hope that Jan does more with it. > Directly measuring the watts it takes to roll a tire seems to me to > provide the most immediately useful data about tires. Exciting > stuff. (OK, I'm a geek). > > The short version is that skinner is not necessarily faster; higher > inflation is not necessarily faster. On the steel drum rolling > resistance machine, all other things being equal, wider is faster and > harder is faster. On the road, wider is faster and softer is > faster. There is no doubt a point of diminishing returns or we'd all > be riding Pugsleys with 4" wide tires. > > The main issue with rolling resistance is hysteresis, the loss of > energy in flexing the tire and tube. Thinner tread, supple casings, > etc. roll faster. This appears to be true on steel drum RR rigs and > on the road. > > In practical terms, I did many crits, road races and club rides on my > cyclo-cross bike with Avocet 700 x 32 slicks. I was just as fast on > that bike as on my "race" bike with 700 x 23s. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 12:03 pm, Anne Paulson wrote: > They will if they weigh less. Especially if you're climbing. > But still, facts are facts. Lighter wheels make a > difference, especially if you're climbing. i don't disagree. maybe he should get some Zipp 303s tubulars? I like these wheels a lot and I'm definitely faster on them. In fact, I shaved almost 12 seconds off a 3 mile climb with the Zipps vs. a wheelset that weighs about a pound more. I'm thinking about getting a set for cyclocross racing next year because I could use those seconds to get me to the next level. I don't think my situation, however, is the same as the OP's ;) and, in this case, i think context matters more than a 300g savings in a tire change. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Good point, I do love the Hilsen, I was just under the impression that the Ram was more of a road type of bike than the Hilsen. I will definitely experiment with different types of tires and set ups before I do any trading or selling. On Dec 3, 10:32 am, "David Faller" wrote: > You probably need to identify what you personally consider to be "better" in > a road bike. I thought about a Hilsen, but got a Ram. I'm not sure I could > have told the difference at the time, as far as which was "better". What I > later found made an enormous difference was tires. I went from Ruffy Tuffy > to Jack Brown greens. It's like a different (and better) bike! You might > find the feel you're seeking by going the other direction and putting on > narrower tires. > > IMHO, you should experiment extensively with tires on your Hilsen to see if > you have some sort of revelation about feel. I think you'd regret trading > away the Hilsen for some elusive sense of road feel. What if you did trade > for a Ram and discovered you actually liked it less? > > - Original Message - > From: Shawn > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:34 AM > Subject: [RBW] AHH as a road bike > > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > least a Mark type rack. > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > between the two bikes. > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > feedback. > Shawn > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Joel, If you don't mind and when you have a chance, could you post the *actual* width of the 35mm Kojak? I'm able to run a 32 with fenders, so I'm thinking the 35 will fit without. I would be grateful. Patrick On Dec 3, 2:07 pm, JoelMatthews wrote: > I have 35s. Not sure if there is a 32. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I have 35s. Not sure if there is a 32. I have never ridden the Jack Browns. The bike with the Kojaks came with Paselas. I find the Kojaks smoother, faster, and more comfortable. Chicago streets may not have the infamous goatsheads, but they have plenty of nasties. The pavement itself is often a challenge to tires. My niece has had her Kojaks for three seasons now, with only one flat. I have had no flats a season and a half. On Dec 3, 12:17 pm, LouisvillePatrick wrote: > I have been tempted lately by the Kojak. What size do you run? > Don't they make a 32 or 35? > Can you compare them to Jack Browns? > > > > > My Rx for road only is to get a nice treadless tire like the Schwalbe > > Kojak. It is relatively light, quality rubber, holds up very well on > > decent roads and is fast enough for most riders.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:09 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > *weak* function of tire width.In other words, tire width had > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > Does anyone here have the article? Yeah I do as do several of us, and Jan reads this mailing list too. I've always had some problem with that particular report which I've discussed with Jan at great length (without convincing him nor he convincing me). However, the results did match pretty well with what one would expect (tries with thick rubber being slower, tires with knobbier treads being slower, etc.). However in the last issue of BQ they published a *very* interesting test using a Tune PowerTap to measure the power necessary to maintain speed over smooth and rough pavement. In both cases they found the fatter, softer tires (a Panaracer Pasela 700 x 37) to take less power than a skinny hard tire (Bontrager 700 x 25) to maintain the same speed. Over smooth pavement the differences were smaller but still significant; over rough pavement the differences were startling. I found this article fascinating and hope that Jan does more with it. Directly measuring the watts it takes to roll a tire seems to me to provide the most immediately useful data about tires. Exciting stuff. (OK, I'm a geek). The short version is that skinner is not necessarily faster; higher inflation is not necessarily faster. On the steel drum rolling resistance machine, all other things being equal, wider is faster and harder is faster. On the road, wider is faster and softer is faster. There is no doubt a point of diminishing returns or we'd all be riding Pugsleys with 4" wide tires. The main issue with rolling resistance is hysteresis, the loss of energy in flexing the tire and tube. Thinner tread, supple casings, etc. roll faster. This appears to be true on steel drum RR rigs and on the road. In practical terms, I did many crits, road races and club rides on my cyclo-cross bike with Avocet 700 x 32 slicks. I was just as fast on that bike as on my "race" bike with 700 x 23s. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
At the risk of heresy and banishment: I like skinny road-ish tires on my road bike; they look better, feel fast, and are faster (on the same rides as fatter tires). I am not opposing the views of JH or anyone else in the fatter-is-better camp and fully accept the possibility that what makes them faster is that I think they are faster and I ride harder when I ride that bike. There is no silver bullet or secret sauce when it comes to what works and what doesnt, and for every person who says one thing there is someone else saying the exact opposite. For me it is about trying out the different options and finding out what works for me regardless of what the current trends and opinions happen to be (whether JH's, Riv's, or Bicyling's). That said, putting different tires and dropping the "extras" on the AHH would probably work great. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I have been tempted lately by the Kojak. What size do you run? Don't they make a 32 or 35? Can you compare them to Jack Browns? > My Rx for road only is to get a nice treadless tire like the Schwalbe > Kojak. It is relatively light, quality rubber, holds up very well on > decent roads and is fast enough for most riders. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
My Rx for road only is to get a nice treadless tire like the Schwalbe Kojak. It is relatively light, quality rubber, holds up very well on decent roads and is fast enough for most riders. On Dec 3, 11:03 am, Anne Paulson wrote: > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Patrick in VT wrote: > > > skinny tires aren't going to make you faster. > > They will if they weigh less. Especially if you're climbing. > > As anyone who has seen my green Atlantis can testify, I'm far from a > weight weenie. But still, facts are facts. Lighter wheels make a > difference, especially if you're climbing. > > -- > -- Anne Paulson > > He who wills the ends wills the means -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Patrick in VT wrote: > skinny tires aren't going to make you faster. They will if they weigh less. Especially if you're climbing. As anyone who has seen my green Atlantis can testify, I'm far from a weight weenie. But still, facts are facts. Lighter wheels make a difference, especially if you're climbing. -- -- Anne Paulson He who wills the ends wills the means -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Cycletex wrote: > > I don't know. My 37mm Paselas are pretty supple. Maybe not as supple > as some in the test, but when compared with other 700c tires in it's > class the Pasela fairs well in suppleness and weight. The 35c pasela > did really well in the performance test that was published in BQ Vol5 > #1. At that time they were the fastest of the "fat" 700c tires > tested. > > "The surprisingly fast times of a few tires, such as the Panaracer > "Pasela" (34.5m m wide), the Avocet "Cross" (34.5mm) and the > Mitsoboshi "Trimline" (37mm) appear to be mostly due to their great > width." > Perhaps the Paselas aren't a good example overall, but since my Riv roads have 559 or 571 wheels, I am pretty limited in the "good" road tires I can find. I used 1.25 Paselas for a while but switched (on the commuter) to 22-23 mm (actual) Conti Grand Prix and Specialized Turbos because these, at least, fell faster and more nimble -- and the Paselas only weigh about 40 grams more, each -- 240 vs 200 grams. I know the Turbos, in particular, which I've used off and on for 18 years, are among my favorites and, if they came in a 28, would be even more favorite. (I have a stash of Turbos, since I believe that they haven't been made for some time.) BTW, when I say "feel" faster, I don't buy the "more vibration makes it feel faster" hypothesis; it's not vibration but smoothness and computer readouts that form my judgement. The Turbos in particular feel as smooth at 90/100 as the Paselas did a 70/80, but then the Turbos have always seemed exceptionally smooth despite their narrow width. The only other Paselas I've used recently were 27X1.25s, wire bead, and those felt like dogs; my experience, of course. Perhaps there are Paselas and Paselas. > > My fast preference is the 32c tg pasela. I run them on a light > aluminum go-fast and I'll pick them over every other tire I own. > Again, they hold there own in suppleness and weight when compared to > others in their class. I ride this bike with some really fast riders > here in austin with carbon and skinny's and when they drop me I never > blame the tire. The engine however... now that's another story. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
> Be aware that what Jan found to be faster are fat, *supple* tires -- not > your 38 mm Paselas. The fastest tires in the test, IIRC, were some 24 mm > racing tires, not because there were skinny but because they were very > supple. > > A fat, heavy, stiff tire will all else equal be a dog comparatively > speaking. I don't know. My 37mm Paselas are pretty supple. Maybe not as supple as some in the test, but when compared with other 700c tires in it's class the Pasela fairs well in suppleness and weight. The 35c pasela did really well in the performance test that was published in BQ Vol5 #1. At that time they were the fastest of the "fat" 700c tires tested. "The surprisingly fast times of a few tires, such as the Panaracer "Pasela" (34.5m m wide), the Avocet "Cross" (34.5mm) and the Mitsoboshi "Trimline" (37mm) appear to be mostly due to their great width." My fast preference is the 32c tg pasela. I run them on a light aluminum go-fast and I'll pick them over every other tire I own. Again, they hold there own in suppleness and weight when compared to others in their class. I ride this bike with some really fast riders here in austin with carbon and skinny's and when they drop me I never blame the tire. The engine however... now that's another story. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Dec 3, 10:09 am, newenglandbike wrote: >They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. well, to be clear, it depends on what tires we're talking about. the width of a tire doesn't say a whole lot on it's own. it's really about how the tires are made. lots of wide tires are, indeed, clunky and slow. and lots of narrow tires are, indeed, very fast. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Jan Heine's tests attempted to isolate rolling resistance from all the other resistance terms in the bicycle speed equation, and we should exercise caution when interpreting his results. Obviously, TdF riders haven't made the jump to 700x35 mm tires, so maybe there's a reason! I would argue that the biggest reason to go for skinny tires is weight. Since it is rolling weight, a lightweight tire will translate not just into marginally faster speeds uphill, but, more significantly, faster acceleration, and probably faster maneuvering. All that said, it really isn't THAT much of an improvement for most types of riding to have skinny tires - if you are racing or really serious about ultra-brevets, tiny percentage improvements may matter, but otherwise, the gains are trivial. You won't be substantially faster on a 700x25 than you will be on the light-for-its-size Jack Brown Green, Grand Bois, plain-jane Pasela, etc. Also: the AHH is designed to have a low BB with much larger tires. If you go much skinnier, you may have some significant issues with pedal strike, which can be dangerous and irritating. My experience with this is that my bike desires are highly asymmetrical, and every time I try to fill the road bike void, it's disappointing. I've had several "roadie" bikes that just didn't get the use that my "all-rounder" bikes get. On Dec 3, 9:09 am, newenglandbike wrote: > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > *weak* function of tire width. In other words, tire width had > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > Does anyone here have the article? > > On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > > > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > > least a Mark type rack. > > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > > between the two bikes. > > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > > feedback. > > Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Be aware that what Jan found to be faster are fat, *supple* tires -- not your 38 mm Paselas. The fastest tires in the test, IIRC, were some 24 mm racing tires, not because there were skinny but because they were very supple. A fat, heavy, stiff tire will all else equal be a dog comparatively speaking. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:09 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > *weak* function of tire width.In other words, tire width had > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > Does anyone here have the article? > > > > On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > > least a Mark type rack. > > > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > > between the two bikes. > > > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > > feedback. > > Shawn > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
skinny tires aren't going to make you faster. not bogging the bike down with bags, racks, etc. and carrying a bunch of stuff with you, however, will make a difference. so, just keep the AHH stripped down. in your case, it will make a fine road bike - doesn't sound like you're concerned about getting dropped from a group ride or that the bike is holding you back. anyway, by all means, if you want some new sneaks - go for it! but why not ride a lightish 30-32mm tire at a higher pressure? tire pressure makes a huge difference in how the bike will feel and ride. On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > least a Mark type rack. > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > between the two bikes. > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > feedback. > Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Here is Jan Heine's article on wide tires: www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf On Dec 3, 9:09 am, newenglandbike wrote: > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > *weak* function of tire width. In other words, tire width had > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > Does anyone here have the article? > > On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > > > > > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > > least a Mark type rack. > > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > > between the two bikes. > > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > > feedback. > > Shawn- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:09 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > > Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. > recently published results of an extensive test involving various > tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a > *weak* function of tire width. In other words, tire width had > little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at > moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high > pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a > copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). > > Does anyone here have the article? > The interview with Terry bicycles gives you all the info you'd really need, I think: http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast/?kc=em20091120&utm_medium=email&utm_source=cpmaster&utm_campaign=em20091120 and it's kinda cool to listen to. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. recently published results of an extensive test involving various tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a *weak* function of tire width.In other words, tire width had little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). Does anyone here have the article? On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn wrote: > Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen > more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends > on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, > ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't > ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I > am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; > Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, > events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s > clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. > > I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the > Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of > finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I > am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at > least a Mark type rack. > > Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I > should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear > that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions > between the two bikes. > > Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or > feedback. > Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
