Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
My concern is that if you have 336 spoken word $2 rdacontent 337 audio $2 rdamedia 338 other $2 rda carrier How do they know that that this thing is a Playaway, unless you say it's a Playaway in the 300? And for matching, you must have consistency. Even for human beings, we need consistency. Even for human beings looking at the following list of various possible 300s, would everyone understand that what they are talking about is a Playaway? (No!) 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player Once LC says whatever it is going to say, we are in desperate need for the various cataloging constituencies to write guidelines (their interpretations) of exactly how materials such as these are to be consistently cataloged. This piece really cannot be left up to cataloger's judgment, because that leaves the field open to many different answers. Julie On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Mark Ehlert ehler...@umn.edu wrote: Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: One idea is if perhaps the matching algorithm could use the new 3xx fields instead of the 300 type of unit free text. Of course, that relies on the new 3xx fields using only controlled terms, which I'm not sure is the case (but should be!). Assuming 3xx is limited to the 336-338, then the CMC types are already set up as controlled terms. Hence the prescribed other and unspecified terms provided for all three lists. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex CoordinatorUniversity of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/ -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Yep, there's no way to know. It seems to me that there needs to be an additional vocabulary term added to legal ones in 338 that describes a playaway somehow. It might not _specifically_ identify a playaway(tm), you might need to look in non-controlled fields to see that still. But there should be something there that isn't just other. Something that says this is a thing that, itself, plays [from the 447] audio. You don't need to put it in a player. I know some people object to using realia or object for a playaway. But a term indicating realia or object when combined with 337 audio seems to clearly identify something that in itself (without needing a machine to put it in) plays audio. Is there anything else a 338=realia combined with 337=audio could describe? (It woudln't need to be displayed to the user using the same word from the controlled vocabulary.) Would that possibly work? Is there such a legal 338 already other than other, that when combined with 337 audio would unambiguously mean this is a thing that plays audio built into it.? On 4/26/2011 2:52 PM, Julie Moore wrote: My concern is that if you have 336 spoken word $2 rdacontent 337 audio $2 rdamedia 338 other $2 rda carrier How do they know that that this thing is a Playaway, unless you say it's a Playaway in the 300? And for matching, you must have consistency. Even for human beings, we need consistency. Even for human beings looking at the following list of various possible 300s, would everyone understand that what they are talking about is a Playaway? (No!) 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player Once LC says whatever it is going to say, we are in desperate need for the various cataloging constituencies to write guidelines (their interpretations) of exactly how materials such as these are to be consistently cataloged. This piece really cannot be left up to cataloger's judgment, because that leaves the field open to many different answers. Julie On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Mark Ehlert ehler...@umn.edu mailto:ehler...@umn.edu wrote: Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu mailto:rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: One idea is if perhaps the matching algorithm could use the new 3xx fields instead of the 300 type of unit free text. Of course, that relies on the new 3xx fields using only controlled terms, which I'm not sure is the case (but should be!). Assuming 3xx is limited to the 336-338, then the CMC types are already set up as controlled terms. Hence the prescribed other and unspecified terms provided for all three lists. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex CoordinatorUniversity of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 tel:612-624-0805Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/ -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com mailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not at least partially because of such new media and the mixing of electronic with other characteristics (such as audio or visual materials) (especially materials on the Internet) that actually began this whole movement toward a new set of rules other than AACR2? I think that it is rather ironic that the things that seem to be easiest to catalog in RDA are, for example, a monograph (which were not much of a problem in AACR2) ... and the things that we continue to be having issues with in RDA is cataloging this new media ... and mixed media such as a kit (and other realia items -- games, 3D objects, equipment, etc.) Julie On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 1:36 PM, J. McRee Elrod m...@slc.bc.ca wrote: RDA is no improvement over AACR2 in the cataloguing of new media, and worse for mixed media such as a kit. -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
On 4/22/2011 3:30 PM, Deborah Fritz wrote: People *will* be entering free text as this RDA element, so I would like to know whether anyone has figured out some way that matching algorythms will be able to reliably match descriptions without the use of consistent terms in this element. No, and nobody will. It's essentially impossible, as I suspect you knew when you asked. :) reliably match descriptions without the use of consistent terms in this element. One idea is if perhaps the matching algorithm could use the new 3xx fields instead of the 300 type of unit free text. Of course, that relies on the new 3xx fields using only controlled terms, which I'm not sure is the case (but should be!). I had sort of been thinking (perhaps incorrectly?), that the new 3xx fields will be from controlled terms, and serve the purposes of machine matching and collocation, while the old 300 will be for user display only. It is not an unusual pattern in our data to have controlled fields corresponding with transcribed fields (although in this case it's not transcribed exactly, but still perhaps a display field rather than a controlled/collocating field). Does that make any sense? Jonathan
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: One idea is if perhaps the matching algorithm could use the new 3xx fields instead of the 300 type of unit free text. Of course, that relies on the new 3xx fields using only controlled terms, which I'm not sure is the case (but should be!). Assuming 3xx is limited to the 336-338, then the CMC types are already set up as controlled terms. Hence the prescribed other and unspecified terms provided for all three lists. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Julie, If you insist on a straight answer... If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local catalog stays in the local catalog.) In an ideal world, where records carried more information in coded form, I would have a coded value in the record rather than a literal (something analogous to ONIX's AK) and would leave it up to the local library what literal they wanted to have display in their catalog. In a shared catalog like OCLC, I would probably follow standard practice to the extent it exists. In 2008 the Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force-yes, there was such a thing-recommended 1 sound media player so I would probably go with that. http://www.olacinc.org/drupal/capc_files/playawaysPDF.pdf Ed From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Julie Moore Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:07 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edumailto:ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.commailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Dear Ed, Thank you for your straight answer ... (which I think is really 3 if-then answers.) I am aware of the 2008 OLAC Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force recommendations, but I take that with a grain of salt since RDA was not actually published yet. It was the best that they could come up with at the time, but a lot has happened with RDA since then. So I think that this document is rather dated, as far as RDA life is concerned. I think that this example illustrates that we are not quite there yet with RDA. I do not think that we've gotten to a final answer just yet on this ... and many other issues. Thanks kindly for your thoughtful response. Best wishes, Julie On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: Julie, If you insist on a straight answer… If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local catalog stays in the local catalog.) In an ideal world, where records carried more information in coded form, I would have a coded value in the record rather than a literal (something analogous to ONIX’s “AK”) and would leave it up to the local library what literal they wanted to have display in their catalog. In a shared catalog like OCLC, I would probably follow standard practice to the extent it exists. In 2008 the Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force—yes, there was such a thing—recommended “1 sound media player” so I would probably go with that. http://www.olacinc.org/drupal/capc_files/playawaysPDF.pdf Ed *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Julie Moore *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:07 PM *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones -- -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
But what you do in the local catalog, does not actually stay in the local catalog, because records get batchloaded to WorldCat and other union catalogs (or catalogues) and, when that happens, what then will happen with the matching algorythms for deduping records if each record has a different SMD? 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player 1) Is there an explicit code, currently in use in MARC--that we can use while we are creating RDA descriptions in a MARC environment, that will make it clear to a matching algorythm that this record is describing the same thing as that record, no matter what is in the 300$a? 2) And since this is the RDA-L not the MARC-L, is there a combination of RDA data elements that will reliably indicate that this description is describing the same thing as that description, no matter what is in the SMD, for whatever future matching we will need to do? 3) And/or is this another situation where The Registry could *really* help, so that every SMD is registered, before it is used in a description in a library environment, so that a matching algorythm can check the registry and match on 'variant' terms? And, if so, when will that become an integral part of our cataloging procedures? Deborah -- Deborah Fritz MARC Database Consultant The MARC of Quality www.marcofquality.com http://www.marcofquality.com/ Voice/Fax: (321) 676-1904 On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:58 AM , Ed Jones mailto:ejo...@nu.edu ejo...@nu.edu wrote: Julie, If you insist on a straight answer. If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local catalog stays in the local catalog.) In an ideal world, where records carried more information in coded form, I would have a coded value in the record rather than a literal (something analogous to ONIX's AK) and would leave it up to the local library what literal they wanted to have display in their catalog. In a shared catalog like OCLC, I would probably follow standard practice to the extent it exists. In 2008 the Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force-yes, there was such a thing-recommended 1 sound media player so I would probably go with that. http://www.olacinc.org/drupal/capc_files/playawaysPDF.pdf Ed On Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:07 PM , Julie Moore mailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones --
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
I thought that RDA as a code used neither GMD _nor_ SMD, replacing those with the data elements that end up in the new mac 3xx fields? Can anyone confirm that, that there is no notion of 'smd' in RDA? If so, there would be no answer to having every SMD registered in the RDA registry, nor to way to indicate in RDA that the SMD should be ignored -- RDA already ignores the SMD. No? Matching algorithms in union catalogs may have to be updated to take account of RDA. Of course, if people are just entering free text in the new 3xx MARC fields for RDA, instead of using a controlled vocabulary, that could still be a problem for matching algorithms. Exact same sort of problem as if people were/are entering free text instead of controlled vocabulary in the GMD/SMD of course. From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Deborah Fritz [debo...@marcofquality.com] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 2:52 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways But what you do in the local catalog, does not actually stay in the local catalog, because records get batchloaded to WorldCat and other union catalogs (or catalogues) and, when that happens, what then will happen with the matching algorythms for deduping records if each record has a different SMD? 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player 1) Is there an explicit code, currently in use in MARC--that we can use while we are creating RDA descriptions in a MARC environment, that will make it clear to a matching algorythm that this record is describing the same thing as that record, no matter what is in the 300$a? 2) And since this is the RDA-L not the MARC-L, is there a combination of RDA data elements that will reliably indicate that this description is describing the same thing as that description, no matter what is in the SMD, for whatever future matching we will need to do? 3) And/or is this another situation where The Registry could *really* help, so that every SMD is registered, before it is used in a description in a library environment, so that a matching algorythm can check the registry and match on 'variant' terms? And, if so, when will that become an integral part of our cataloging procedures? Deborah -- Deborah Fritz MARC Database Consultant The MARC of Quality www.marcofquality.comhttp://www.marcofquality.com/ Voice/Fax: (321) 676-1904 On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:58 AM , Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edumailto:ejo...@nu.edu wrote: Julie, If you insist on a straight answer… If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local catalog stays in the local catalog.) In an ideal world, where records carried more information in coded form, I would have a coded value in the record rather than a literal (something analogous to ONIX’s “AK”) and would leave it up to the local library what literal they wanted to have display in their catalog. In a shared catalog like OCLC, I would probably follow standard practice to the extent it exists. In 2008 the Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force—yes, there was such a thing—recommended “1 sound media player” so I would probably go with that. http://www.olacinc.org/drupal/capc_files/playawaysPDF.pdf Ed On Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:07 PM , Julie Moorejulie.renee.mo...@gmail.commailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edumailto:ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones --
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: I thought that RDA as a code used neither GMD _nor_ SMD, replacing those with the data elements that end up in the new mac 3xx fields? Can anyone confirm that, that there is no notion of 'smd' in RDA? The 300 $a includes what could be called an SMD, but in RDA it (called a type of unit) and its number are referred to as Extent, e.g., 3 videodiscs. The fine print is given under RDA 3.1 and 3.4. The terms for the 300 $a are to be taken from the Carrier Type list under 3.3.1.3, much like some chapters of AACR2 have lists of terms to choose from. RDA also follows AACR2 in allowing for made-up terms to inhabit the 300 $a, such as those in common usage or trade names. Quoting from 3.4.1.5: Use a term in common usage (including a trade name, if applicable) to designate the type of unit: a.) if the carrier is in a newly developed format that is not yet covered in the list under 3.3.1.3; b.) if none of the terms listed under 3.3.1.3 is appropriate; or c.) as an alternative to a term listed under 3.3.1.3, if preferred by the agency preparing the description Other formats take a differ tack, such as text, which uses the pagination approach (RDA 3.4.5), and still images, which draw from a different vocabulary under 3.4.4 (and allow for terms to be made up if none on the list fit the thing being cataloged). These exceptions are found under 3.4.1.3. A registry sounds like a good idea. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
OK, you caught me on that one. You are correct-the term 'SMD' is not used in RDA-the term used at 3.4.1.3 (Recording Extent) is an appropriate term for the type of carrier as listed under 3.3.1.3 (Recording Carrier Type). That instruction then says to use one or more of the terms listed below, none of which even closely resemble the terms on the list I compiled from the previous messages on this topic. But then there is 3.4.1.5 (Other terms used to designate the type of unit) which says Use a term in common usage (including a trade name, if applicable) to designate the type of unit and, under that instruction, point c) even goes so far as to say we can do this as an alternative to a term listed under 3.3.1.3 if preferred by the agency preparing the description So, I apologise for using an AACR term in an RDA reference (I *will* get them straight someday), but my questions still hold-just replace anywhere I said SMD with 'term for type of carrier' or 'type of unit'. People *will* be entering free text as this RDA element, so I would like to know whether anyone has figured out some way that matching algorythms will be able to reliably match descriptions without the use of consistent terms in this element. If not, then maybe we should at least *try* to use consistent carrier/unit terms in the RDA MARC records that we are making at this time, to try to allow more reliable matching, at least until something else is in place that will allow us to get as wild and crazy as we please, without breaking machine matching any worse than it already is. Thanks, Deborah -- Deborah Fritz MARC Database Consultant The MARC of Quality www.marcofquality.com Voice/Fax: (321) 676-1904 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rochkind Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 3:06 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways I thought that RDA as a code used neither GMD _nor_ SMD, replacing those with the data elements that end up in the new mac 3xx fields? Can anyone confirm that, that there is no notion of 'smd' in RDA? If so, there would be no answer to having every SMD registered in the RDA registry, nor to way to indicate in RDA that the SMD should be ignored -- RDA already ignores the SMD. No? Matching algorithms in union catalogs may have to be updated to take account of RDA. Of course, if people are just entering free text in the new 3xx MARC fields for RDA, instead of using a controlled vocabulary, that could still be a problem for matching algorithms. Exact same sort of problem as if people were/are entering free text instead of controlled vocabulary in the GMD/SMD of course. From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Deborah Fritz [debo...@marcofquality.com] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 2:52 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways But what you do in the local catalog, does not actually stay in the local catalog, because records get batchloaded to WorldCat and other union catalogs (or catalogues) and, when that happens, what then will happen with the matching algorythms for deduping records if each record has a different SMD? 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player 1) Is there an explicit code, currently in use in MARC--that we can use while we are creating RDA descriptions in a MARC environment, that will make it clear to a matching algorythm that this record is describing the same thing as that record, no matter what is in the 300$a? 2) And since this is the RDA-L not the MARC-L, is there a combination of RDA data elements that will reliably indicate that this description is describing the same thing as that description, no matter what is in the SMD, for whatever future matching we will need to do? 3) And/or is this another situation where The Registry could *really* help, so that every SMD is registered, before it is used in a description in a library environment, so that a matching algorythm can check the registry and match on 'variant' terms? And, if so, when will that become an integral part of our cataloging procedures? Deborah -- Deborah Fritz MARC Database Consultant The MARC of Quality www.marcofquality.comhttp://www.marcofquality.com/ Voice/Fax: (321) 676-1904 On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:58 AM , Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edumailto:ejo...@nu.edu wrote: Julie, If you insist on a straight answer. If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
And herein lies my point ... I am seeking consistency! Julie On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Deborah Fritz debo...@marcofquality.comwrote: But what you do in the local catalog, does *not* actually stay in the local catalog, because records get batchloaded to WorldCat and other union catalogs (or catalogues) and, when that happens, what then will happen with the matching algorythms for deduping records if each record has a different SMD? 1 sound media player 1 pre-recorded MP3 player 1 pre-recorded digital audio player 1 Playaway 1 audio media player 1 digital media player 1) Is there an explicit code, currently in use in MARC--that we can use while we are creating RDA descriptions in a MARC environment, that will make it clear to a matching algorythm that this record is describing the same thing as that record, no matter what is in the 300$a? 2) And since this is the RDA-L not the MARC-L, is there a combination of RDA data elements that will reliably indicate that this description is describing the same thing as that description, no matter what is in the SMD, for whatever future matching we will need to do? 3) And/or is this another situation where The Registry could *really* help, so that every SMD is registered, before it is used in a description in a library environment, so that a matching algorythm can check the registry and match on 'variant' terms? And, if so, when will that become an integral part of our cataloging procedures? Deborah -- Deborah Fritz MARC Database Consultant The MARC of Quality www.marcofquality.com Voice/Fax: (321) 676-1904 On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:58 AM , Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: Julie, If you insist on a straight answer… If my library promoted them as Playaways and users knew them as Playaways, I would probably argue for calling them Playaways in the physical description. (As they say, What you do in the local catalog stays in the local catalog.) In an ideal world, where records carried more information in coded form, I would have a coded value in the record rather than a literal (something analogous to ONIX’s “AK”) and would leave it up to the local library what literal they wanted to have display in their catalog. In a shared catalog like OCLC, I would probably follow standard practice to the extent it exists. In 2008 the Playaway Cataloging Joint Task Force—yes, there was such a thing—recommended “1 sound media player” so I would probably go with that. http://www.olacinc.org/drupal/capc_files/playawaysPDF.pdf Ed On Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:07 PM , Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones -- -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Amanda
Is the source of acquisition field really where you want to put this? Your
attachment puts it both in 037 $f and in 300 $a. I like the use of other audio
carrier faute de mieux, but ideally one would want something that captured the
idea of an integrated intermediation tool.
I think this all points out the need to have a rapid response mechanism in
RDA for dealing with new phenomena. Even an interim authoritative label would
make post-hoc cleanup easier when a more permanent label became available. This
seems to have happened in ONIX as pre-recorded MP3 player has given way to
pre-recorded audio player.
(I should mention in response to an earlier post that what I meant to say was
What I do in my local catalog stays in my local catalog.)
Ed
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Amanda Xu
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 12:44 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Julie and Ed:
Here is what I would do for cross-mapping between ONIX 2.1 MARC 21
considering the fact that 1) what is the easiest way to conversion; 2) much of
our data are still in AACR2:
ONIX Tag
b012
b333
b210
ONIX Reference Name
ProductFormAK/ProductForm
ProductFormDetailpre-recorded MP3 player/ProductFormDetail
NumberOfPieces1/NumberOfPieces
MARC 21 Data Element
037 $f {1 pre-recorded MP3 player}
For specific mapping that incorporates RDA elements for audio file, and
downloadable version for podcasts online, please check attachment. The
assumption is based on the piece to be cataloged is an spoken audiobook in .mp3
format.
For additional references, please check:
1. Library of Congress. Network Development and MARC Standards Office. ONIX
to MARC 21 Mapping. Retrieved 4/22/2011 from
http://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.htmhttp://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.html
2. OCLC ONIX-MARC Mapping, ONIX for Books, Release 2.1. Retrieved
4/22/2011 from http://www.editeur.org/96/ONIX-and-MARC21/
Cheers,
Amanda Xu
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Julie Moore
julie.renee.mo...@gmail.commailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote:
Ed,
Are you saying that you would call it a:
300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ?
Just curious!
Thanks,
Julie
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edumailto:ejo...@nu.edu
wrote:
FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the
name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication
(1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to
ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a
newer version than version 1.0).
http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf
Ed Jones
--
Julie Renee Moore
Catalog Librarian
California State University, Fresno
julie.renee.mo...@gmail.commailto:julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com
559-278-5813tel:559-278-5813
There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Ed:
Thank you so much for your quick response. 037$f and 300$a are used for
different purpose. One is to record the term used by source of acquisition,
and the other is to record the term used by cataloger.
Without revealing the format of the audio files (at least MIME Type ready),
it's hard for to users to launch the appropriate player, e.g. Real player,
iTune, Media Player, etc.
According to OCLC's mapping table for ONIX 2.1, the Code 'AK' is for
'pre-recorded MP3 player.' That is the code that you are using as well when
you replied to Julie's message. Therefore, I can't comment on ONIX's change
of “pre-recorded audio player.” Thanks a million for the discussion!
Sincerely yours,
Amanda
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote:
Amanda
Is the “source of acquisition” field really where you want to put this?
Your attachment puts it both in 037 $f and in 300 $a. I like the use of
“other audio carrier” faute de mieux, but ideally one would want something
that captured the idea of an integrated intermediation tool.
I think this all points out the need to have a “rapid response” mechanism
in RDA for dealing with new phenomena. Even an interim “authoritative” label
would make post-hoc cleanup easier when a more permanent label became
available. This seems to have happened in ONIX as “pre-recorded MP3 player”
has given way to “pre-recorded audio player”.
(I should mention in response to an earlier post that what I meant to say
was “What I do in my local catalog stays in my local catalog”.)
Ed
*From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Amanda Xu
*Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2011 12:44 PM
*To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
*Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Julie and Ed:
Here is what I would do for cross-mapping between ONIX 2.1 MARC 21
considering the fact that 1) what is the easiest way to conversion; 2) much
of our data are still in AACR2:
*ONIX Tag*
*b012*
*b333*
*b210*
*ONIX Reference Name*
ProductFormAK/ProductForm
ProductFormDetailpre-recorded MP3 player/ProductFormDetail
NumberOfPieces1/NumberOfPieces
*MARC 21 Data Element*
037 $f {1 pre-recorded MP3 player}
For specific mapping that incorporates RDA elements for audio file, and
downloadable version for podcasts online, please check attachment. The
assumption is based on the piece to be cataloged is an spoken audiobook in
.mp3 format.
For additional references, please check:
1. Library of Congress. Network Development and MARC Standards
Office. ONIX to MARC 21 Mapping. Retrieved 4/22/2011 from
http://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.htmhttp://www.loc.gov/marc/onix2marc.html
2. OCLC ONIX-MARC Mapping, ONIX for Books, Release 2.1. Retrieved
4/22/2011 from http://www.editeur.org/96/ONIX-and-MARC21/
Cheers,
Amanda Xu
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ed,
Are you saying that you would call it a:
300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ?
Just curious!
Thanks,
Julie
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote:
FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the
name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any
indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form
was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this
(unless there is a newer version than version 1.0).
http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf
Ed Jones
--
Julie Renee Moore
Catalog Librarian
California State University, Fresno
julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com
559-278-5813
There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Apparently ONIX now calls it a pre-recorded digital audio player according to the latest list at http://www.editeur.org/14/Code-Lists/ Click on Code Lists Issue 13. -- John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Langdell Hall Harvard Law School Library Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/ -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Ed Jones Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 18:13 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Thanks, John. Two things strike me. First is the responsiveness of the ONIX lists to changes in the environment. This is the second time they've arrived at a consensus description for Playaway-type devices--the first time was four years ago!--whereas we haven't even reached the initial stage of drafting a proposal to the JSC. Second is the advantage of having a coded value as the basic element. In this case, AK represents these things, whatever the consensus description for them may be. Given the value AK, your local system can display whatever text you want to your users. Ed -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of John Hostage Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:20 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Apparently ONIX now calls it a pre-recorded digital audio player according to the latest list at http://www.editeur.org/14/Code-Lists/ Click on Code Lists Issue 13. -- John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Langdell Hall Harvard Law School Library Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/ -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Ed Jones Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 18:13 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Ed, Are you saying that you would call it a: 300 1 pre-recorded MP3 player ? Just curious! Thanks, Julie On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Ed Jones ejo...@nu.edu wrote: FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones -- Julie Renee Moore Catalog Librarian California State University, Fresno julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com 559-278-5813 There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we are looking at cataloging kits using RDA, I am also wondering if people have cataloged playaways using RDA? (Is there a way to search specifically for playaways with RDA records on OCLC?) dx:rda and kw:playaway? brought up a few records. It looks like Brigham Young created some for the test, though you'll have to dig down to their institution record to view what they did (Cataloging Show All Institution Records). -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
A few explanations about BYU's RDA records for Playaways. In the 300 field we used 1 sound media player ..., the same as had been used previously in AACR2. I see the non-BYU RDA records for Playaways used 1 audio media player ... which is probably more in the spirit of RDA, which changed most of the sound SMDs to audio. There isn't actually a carrier type to use in 300 for any kind of media player. As for the media and carrier types, we concluded that a Playaway is unmediated, since it requires nothing beyond itself to use: unmediated = media used to store content designed to be perceived directly through one or more of the human senses without the aid of an intermediating device. The Playaway player (taken as a whole including the attached earbuds) is an object used to store content designed to be perceived directly through the human ear-unlike a CD or a cassette you don't have to put a Playaway into any other machine to access the information. So we used unmediated as the media type. That left us with object as the only choice for carrier type, since the carrier types are supposed to correspond to the media types. If we could have chosen from any of the carrier types, without being restricted to the unmediated ones, I would have chosen audio cartridge to describe the carrier for a Playaway. If it had been available as an unmediated carrier type, media player would have been a good choice, but it isn't currently in the list. A wind-up music box is another example of an unmediated device that stores audio information. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept. 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Mark Ehlert Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:55 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we are looking at cataloging kits using RDA, I am also wondering if people have cataloged playaways using RDA? (Is there a way to search specifically for playaways with RDA records on OCLC?) dx:rda and kw:playaway? brought up a few records. It looks like Brigham Young created some for the test, though you'll have to dig down to their institution record to view what they did (Cataloging Show All Institution Records). -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
FWIW, ONIX calls it a pre-recorded MP3 player, which also seems to be the name used in the marketplace, if a Google search I just did is any indication (1.5 million results as a quoted string). The new product form was added to ONIX in early 2007. The RDA ONIX framework predates this (unless there is a newer version than version 1.0). http://www.onixtools.de/downloads/ONIX_Code_Lists_Issue_7_Changes.pdf Ed Jones -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:57 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways A few explanations about BYU's RDA records for Playaways. In the 300 field we used 1 sound media player ..., the same as had been used previously in AACR2. I see the non-BYU RDA records for Playaways used 1 audio media player ... which is probably more in the spirit of RDA, which changed most of the sound SMDs to audio. There isn't actually a carrier type to use in 300 for any kind of media player. As for the media and carrier types, we concluded that a Playaway is unmediated, since it requires nothing beyond itself to use: unmediated = media used to store content designed to be perceived directly through one or more of the human senses without the aid of an intermediating device. The Playaway player (taken as a whole including the attached earbuds) is an object used to store content designed to be perceived directly through the human ear-unlike a CD or a cassette you don't have to put a Playaway into any other machine to access the information. So we used unmediated as the media type. That left us with object as the only choice for carrier type, since the carrier types are supposed to correspond to the media types. If we could have chosen from any of the carrier types, without being restricted to the unmediated ones, I would have chosen audio cartridge to describe the carrier for a Playaway. If it had been available as an unmediated carrier type, media player would have been a good choice, but it isn't currently in the list. A wind-up music box is another example of an unmediated device that stores audio information. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept. 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Mark Ehlert Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:55 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we are looking at cataloging kits using RDA, I am also wondering if people have cataloged playaways using RDA? (Is there a way to search specifically for playaways with RDA records on OCLC?) dx:rda and kw:playaway? brought up a few records. It looks like Brigham Young created some for the test, though you'll have to dig down to their institution record to view what they did (Cataloging Show All Institution Records). -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Since RDA allows you to use a trademark name, I probably would have gone with: 300 1 Playaway But 1 audio media player or 1 digital media player would have been good too. I think since this is a type of resource that libraries really are cataloging today, it would be very useful to get a revision proposal into the JSC that provided appropriate terms to use for carrier type. OLAC or MLA would seem to be the most natural constituencies for this. Adam ^^ Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries Box 352900 Seattle, WA 98195-2900 (206) 543-8409 (206) 685-8782 fax asch...@u.washington.edu http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff ~~ On Wed, 20 Apr 2011, Robert Maxwell wrote: A few explanations about BYU's RDA records for Playaways. In the 300 field we used 1 sound media player ..., the same as had been used previously in AACR2. I see the non-BYU RDA records for Playaways used 1 audio media player ... which is probably more in the spirit of RDA, which changed most of the sound SMDs to audio. There isn't actually a carrier type to use in 300 for any kind of media player. As for the media and carrier types, we concluded that a Playaway is unmediated, since it requires nothing beyond itself to use: unmediated = media used to store content designed to be perceived directly through one or more of the human senses without the aid of an intermediating device. The Playaway player (taken as a whole including the attached earbuds) is an object used to store content designed to be perceived directly through the human ear-unlike a CD or a cassette you don't have to put a Playaway into any other machine to access the information. So we used unmediated as the media type. That left us with object as the only choice for carrier type, since the carrier types are supposed to correspond to the media types. If we could have chosen from any of the carrier types, without being restricted to the unmediated ones, I would have chosen audio cartridge to describe the carrier for a Playaway. If it had been available as an unmediated carrier type, media player would have been a good choice, but it isn't currently in the list. A wind-up music box is another example of an unmediated device that stores audio information. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept. 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Mark Ehlert Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:55 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways Julie Moore julie.renee.mo...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we are looking at cataloging kits using RDA, I am also wondering if people have cataloged playaways using RDA? (Is there a way to search specifically for playaways with RDA records on OCLC?) dx:rda and kw:playaway? brought up a few records. It looks like Brigham Young created some for the test, though you'll have to dig down to their institution record to view what they did (Cataloging Show All Institution Records). -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] Cataloging playaways
Robert Maxwell said:
In the 300 field we used 1 sound media player ..., the same as had
been used previously in AACR2. I see the non-BYU RDA records for
Playaways used 1 audio media player ... which is probably more in
the spirit of RDA, which changed most of the sound SMDs to audio.
There isn't actually a carrier type to use in 300 for any kind of
media player.
Since you can not use a term from 338 anyway, why not use the RDA
option of exact unit name, e.g., 300 $a1 Playaway?
We plan to use DVD, Blu-ray disc, MP3 player, Kindle reader, Kobo
reader, etc. as unit names.
We are introducing equipment as an unmediated carrier, just as we
introduced equipment to AACR2 GMD List 2. Realia didn't do it,
nor does object; people expect a rock or some such. We will also
use large print, and wonder if kit would not be helpful to
patrons.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
