Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFP batteries and Outback charge controller

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

The evault doesn’t see the multiple inputs, just like any battery. The envy % reading via web is working well. And yes it’s a bit weird to the solar from the inverter not add up to the daily charge numbers But it’s working fine If you follow oem charge instructions the open loop voltages are a bit lower than closed loop. So far in this offgrid system it’s not mattered with the 2 different charge settings. It’s still getting full. When the array gets upgraded I’ll put everything through the envy. But it’s got a bunch of 20 yr old panels that I didn’t want to rewire to 500v. So I kept the oldest ones on the 150v controllers Hope this helpsJayOn Jun 30, 2024, at 9:30 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Yes, remotely at least. You need a mate 3S to monitor any outback product if you want to see it on opticsRE. But the Evault state of charge should give an accurate calculation, regardless of where the charging Current is coming from. Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225On Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 11:11 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
 You and the client lose the ability to monitor it all in one place do you not?
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-06-29 4:48 pm, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote:



All,
 
I'm wondering if there are any precautions if charging a Fortress Evault LFP bank using 1 or more OB charge controllers, in tandem with an Envy inverter PV input.
 
I know it will have to be programmed differently, and it will be open loop, no CC control from the BMU,.
 
This is a net metered system using a Fortress 12 kw inverter. The total PV input of the inverter is 21 kw. Max sell back is 12 kw, while charging batteries at 6 kw.
 
My issue is the customer has his heart set on maxing out the roof capacity at 25 kw. And I don't really need to add a second inverter for critical loads, Only to increase integrated DC-coupled PV capacity.
 
So I feasibly put part of the array on external charge controller(s) , open-looped, and the remainder on a single 12kw Envy inverter.
 
A second inverter also increases the AC capacity, and as a result, involves a more comprehensive review for net metering approval in Vermont (new trigger for additional review is greater than 15 kw AC)..
 
 
-- 


Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar
Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC
Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!
dba Vermont Solar Engineering
802.559.1225





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFP batteries and Outback charge controller

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

No problem at all. I just did a system exactly like that.  Works fine. JayOn Jun 29, 2024, at 5:49 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:All,I'm wondering if there are any precautions if charging a Fortress Evault LFP bank using 1 or more OB charge controllers, in tandem with an Envy inverter PV input.I know it will have to be programmed differently, and it will be open loop, no CC control from the BMU,.This is a net metered system using a Fortress 12 kw inverter. The total PV input of the inverter is 21 kw. Max sell back is 12 kw, while charging batteries at 6 kw.My issue is the customer has his heart set on maxing out the roof capacity at 25 kw. And I don't really need to add a second inverter for critical loads, Only to increase integrated DC-coupled PV capacity.So I feasibly put part of the array on external charge controller(s) , open-looped, and the remainder on a single 12kw Envy inverter.A second inverter also increases the AC capacity, and as a result, involves a more comprehensive review for net metering approval in Vermont (new trigger for additional review is greater than 15 kw AC)..-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback app

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi dave Thanks, IOS. Guess dead either way. JayOn Jun 17, 2024, at 4:01 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Is this referring to the Android or iOS app?They appear to be dead horses.Optics is functional via a web browser.
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-06-17 2:49 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

Is the Outback app working?I can log into my account but not the app?ThxJay___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


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[RE-wrenches] Outback app

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Is the Outback app working?

I can log into my account but not the app?

Thx
Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi GregHow about this midnite box midnitesolar.comPersonally what I don’t like about single switch A or B is there is an off time. With the midnite box, you switch both on, and turn the off the one you want. That way there is never an off time. Just a thought. JayOn Jun 15, 2024, at 11:19 AM, greg egan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Wrenches,  I have a customer who has a 2 strings of AGM's @ 48 VDC that we want to split so we can charge them at decent charge rate. Adding more PV and/or larger generator and inverter is cost prohibitive.  I've seen Blue Seas (#3002) 4 position 500 amp switches that are rated for 32VDC.  Max he could possibly pull at once with his system is less than 100 amps.I would assume the Blue Seas 3002 would work and I'd probably use it in my garage, but I'm not comfortable recommending it to a customer.  Any suggestions on a 60 VDC rated unit that could handle say 150 amps and 4/0 cables?Maybe I'm being too cautious since the max load would be < 6KW and the 3002 is rated for 16kW load (32 VDC /500A)?   Thoughts?Thank you,Greg EganRemote Power Inc.Fairbanks, AK___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Two Outback Radian 8048 fails in same week..what is likely wrong in 7+ year inverters?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Call Zonna energy. 

It’s most likely 1 of the control boards. 
And probably not the power modules. 

Not all that uncommon especially for the non A versions. 

Jay

> On Jun 9, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Longtime Outback user but since the experience of this group is so varied, 
> I’ll say 8-years (so you real old-timers don’t laugh!).
>  
> Here is the scenario of two systems:
>  
> First is a full off-grid customer and we have two stacked 8048s, with four 
> FM80s and a 14kw array that charges a RE2200. After a home fire (not related 
> to the solar!) we got the system back on and it required heavy dual inverter 
> operations to get the home going after a four-month hiatus. Looks like that 
> slave inverter stopped working at end of the day after we re-powered and 
> departed. He can operate with the single 8048.
> 
> The second situation is a used 8048 I have at the Texas coast that powers a 
> small duck/hunt bunkhouse. It was used system (and I’m a benefitting member) 
> but worked just fine when I put in. Went down to check the batteries (FLA, as 
> AGM nor lithium was in budget) and there was not inverter output and no 
> indication on the MATE like an error code.
> 
> So my question is – what typically fails in a 8048 from old age or heat 
> stress? Wanted to ask here since so many issues with Outback tech spt during 
> its transition. Neither inverter is in warranty, but trying to field repair 
> anything I might be able to.
> 
> I do have battery voltage past the two 175A disconnects in the GSLC. No 
> “thump” I typically get when the inverter first gets battery power and no 
> lights.
> 
> Any troubleshooting tips to identify the culprit part?
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] How many times can a rafter have a lag screw put in and out before it is no longer structurally sound? Some roofs getting their 3rd set of new shingles

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Scot

What a fascinating issue. 
I can’t help as to the structural concerns but I like the deck mounts idea to 
make sure you don’t have any issues. 

Jay

> On May 29, 2024, at 4:17 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> With all our Texas hail storms, we now have roof solar systems that might 
> have to come down for the third time as hail-pockmarked shingles need 
> replacement. We’re at the 11-year mark of doing business and we have some 
> customers ready for another insurance roof claim,
>  
> So that means a new set of lag screws drilled into rafters…after how many 
> times is that 2x6 rafter not 2x6 strength?
> 
> I’ve asked this to my 3rd party structural engineer and instead of an answer 
> got a “wow, hadn’t thought of that.” We’ve considered going to deck mounts to 
> avoid rafters at the 3rd “detach and reset.”
> 
> Any of you guys consider this and have your techniques? I suppose in perfect 
> world, the mount would stay in place and roofer would shingle around it but 
> we still use old-school metal flashing so that is really not possible. I look 
> forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
>  
> 
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Discover rack mount battery connectors

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all

I’ve noticed that many batteries are now using a different type of battery 
connector. Almost like a kind of MC4. It has a positive locking mechanism. 
Discover, EG4, and others. 

I’m wondering if anyone knows if they are universal or specific to each brand?

And is there a name for this type of connector. 

Thanks

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES exposion

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

That is fantastic service!  And it also confirms  that LFP batteries are actually capable of the same explosive energy ( even more actually) as NMC contrary to the claims made by many that it’s impossible. While I’m using LFP batteries in most systems, it does scare me much more than Lead. JayOn May 27, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hey Everybody,I wanted to circle back on the Discover AES explosion that I reported a few weeks ago. As far as we know, there was a thermal runaway situation. Gas from the battery filled the power room and then ignited causing an explosion. It was hot enough that anything plastic melted. The steel man door blew off its hinges. Beyond that, we are still trying to figure out why it happened.For now, what I want to say is that Discover has been awesome. The VP, CEO and crew responded immediately. They are paying for the cleanup of the building by a specialized remediation company, offered to pay to have the building rebuilt, 2nd day shipped new rack mount batteries and a pre-built Schneider system to the site. Are paying a plumbing contractor to replace all of the plumbing (booster pump, pressure tank and significant treatment equipment. Flying Mike Wight (ace off-grid installer and applications engineer for Discover) to the site for the rebuild. And reimbursing me for my involvement. This with no coercion or dawdling about. As soon as they found out, they were on it. I spoke with the VP and CEO and they genuinely care about my clients and want to do right for the sake of doing right, not to avoid litigation. Tell me of another RE company, or any company for that matter that would respond this way.-- 








Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric IncPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560CSLB 1116835mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Brad,

Is this off/on grid?
And are the two wells near each other or they just join up at the tank and 
float switch?

If you’ve got the power then I’d install just a standard AC centrifugal pump.  
Sure uses more power but lasts forever. And is maybe $500 vs $2500
And you’ve said minimal water use. 

since you switch back and forth you could use a DPDT relay to use the reverse 
logic float which the CU200 requires. 

 

> On May 27, 2024, at 12:23 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> OK, all of the fittings were just fine. After pulling the pump it was obvious 
> that there was a total failure of the Grundfos SQFlex 3SQF-2 pump head, both 
> the rotor and the check valve. Water just pours through it in reverse with no 
> pressure. On the last test in place it would not produce more than 75psi 
> running on 240VAC deadheaded. This pump is only 10 years old and only served 
> a two person household with minimal water use on AC power, so it did not run 
> anywhere near as many hours as a solar pump. 100psi head. I'd buy a different 
> pump if I could come up with a method of control. Float switch is 1200 ft 
> away (half AWG#16 and half AWG#14) and a second SQFlex pump in the other well 
> so I'd have to figure out how to control both pumps. I do switch from one to 
> the other; they do not run at the same time. Remember that these float 
> switches are reverse, close on high water.
> 
> Back when I sold these, the pump head was not available separate from the 
> motor, anyone know if that is still true?
> Anyone have a good source for these? I'll look of course, but first hand 
> knowledge from anyone here is good. 
> 
> I do also have a backward leaky check valve in the pump house which will be a 
> lot of work to replace. I have a problem with cheap unions leaking also, but 
> they do come in handy in cases like this. I might just cut through one of the 
> pipes and put in a union. Otherwise I have to disassemble a lot of plumbing. 
> 
> Living in the country...
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad Bassett
> 

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[RE-wrenches] offgrid solar installer in anchorage/SE alaska

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

Any recommendations for a off grid installer in Anchorage or SE alaska?

Pls contact me off list

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JerryWhat equipment are you using to pull steel  from that depth?Jay On May 26, 2024, at 3:18 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hey wrenchesWater leaks in wells, I just pulled my well pump out at a mere 390 feet, older galvanized 11/4 « steel, where the Water rose and dropped the pipe was is poor shape, not leaking yet but it will l suggest if the pump is pul l Ed then replace it with well pipe either sch 80 or 120 depending on the depth. Fun timesOn Sun, May 26, 2024, 11:14 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I had a similar pipe leak. I forgot how I located it, but I used a vaccumn gauge or pump and to determine how far down the well the the leak was and pulled the pump and pipe and found a crack.On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 8:41 PM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches  wrote:I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump. I'm getting water flow in reverse either through the pump or a leak up to the pump. My question is if the check valve on the top of the pump is not sealing, will the progressive cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse? I'd think that with a positive displacement pump it would not, except very slowly or if it turned the motor backwards which I think would be very unlikely. There is about 100 psi head on  the pump. I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the plumbing, and of course another failed check valve farther up in the plumbing. It's possible to get failures even with redundant protection if you have two concurrent failures, which I must have here. Brad Bassett Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the '80's and '90's. Mostly retired now.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

And of course using a torch to soften the tubing just enough so that the barb 
fitting can insert and then grab into the plastic with the clamps.

For 1” its not needed but helpful.  For 1.25”- 2” its needed, or at least I’ve 
never been able to get a solid connection without heat.

Jay


> On May 26, 2024, at 3:31 PM, jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Here is the  link.
> 
> https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad_medium=shopping_neutral_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users_source=1=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB
>  
> 
> 
> I’ve installed dozens of wells and dozens of hydros at high pressure using 
> these.
> Multiple clamps per connector and I’ve had no leaks.
> Also while it doesn’t seem right, using teflon tape on the barbs actually 
> helps to reduce leaks.
> 
> Install the clamps at 120 or 180 degrees from each other is important.  
> 
> If you want to do it correctly then use a HDPE butt welding machine.  I just 
> never could afford one.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 26, 2024, at 12:54 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> Just went through all of Supplyhouse and did not find anything suitable. Off 
>> to do some looking down the well...
>> 
>> On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 11:44 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Brad – Try supplyhouse.com 
>> 888.757.4774
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _
>> 
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! 
>> 
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com 
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com  
>> www.solarwork.com 
>> “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
>> 
>>  
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Brad,

Here is the  link.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad_medium=shopping_neutral_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users_source=1=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB
 


I’ve installed dozens of wells and dozens of hydros at high pressure using 
these.
Multiple clamps per connector and I’ve had no leaks.
Also while it doesn’t seem right, using teflon tape on the barbs actually helps 
to reduce leaks.

Install the clamps at 120 or 180 degrees from each other is important.  

If you want to do it correctly then use a HDPE butt welding machine.  I just 
never could afford one.

Jay





> On May 26, 2024, at 12:54 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just went through all of Supplyhouse and did not find anything suitable. Off 
> to do some looking down the well...
> 
> On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 11:44 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Brad – Try supplyhouse.com 
> 888.757.4774
> 
>  
> 
> _
> 
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! 
> 
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com 
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com  
> www.solarwork.com 
> “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi allYes the pump won’t go backwards but it’s possible there could be some leakage through the helical coil. But both check valves have to fail which is a low probability. I’ve seen pipe broken due to someone closing a valve and not having a pressure relief valve. Not knowing what kind of pipe/fittings  are being used it could be corrosion has made a hole. Not knowing the layout it might be possible to split the plumbing and see if the leakage is above or in the well. Lots of fun possibilities JayOn May 26, 2024, at 9:03 AM, Roy Butler via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
Brad,
  
  Windy might chime in at some point to back me up on this but I see
  no way for that pump to turn backwards.
  Reverse flow is likely a leak at the pump, the down well piping or
  at the pitless adapter if there is one.
  
  Roy
  
  Another old time solar and wind guy, hoping to be retired someday
  :-).

Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807


Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.

“The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.”

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



On 5/26/2024 10:10 AM, Dave Angelini
  Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  Hey Brad,
   
  Sometimes shooting is best if you tell more on what you have
done so far like using the SQF shooting guide, especially on a
holiday weekend
  Assume there is a CU200 controller and pump is in ground
still, must be with 100ft head, sorry
  No high amps? It runs, How old?  
   
  --Dave
  
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
  
  
  
  On 2024-05-26 4:26 am, Jay via RE-wrenches
wrote:
  
Hi Brad
  
  With 2 check valves leaking I’d look for a broken pipe or a
  corroded fitting. 
  
  If there is anyway to isolate between the 2 check valves then
  you could measure the pressure drop on both sides which should
  point to the direction of the leak. 
  
  Jay
  
  On
May 25, 2024, at 7:41 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
wrote:


I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump.
I'm getting water flow in reverse either through the pump or
a leak up to the pump. My question is if the check valve on
the top of the pump is not sealing, will the progressive
cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse?
I'd think that with a positive displacement pump it would
not, except very slowly or if it turned the motor backwards
which I think would be very unlikely. There is about 100 psi
head on  the pump. 

I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the
plumbing, and of course another failed check valve farther
up in the plumbing. It's possible to get failures even with
redundant protection if you have two concurrent failures,
which I must have here. 

Brad Bassett 
Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the
'80's and '90's. Mostly retired now.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Brad

With 2 check valves leaking I’d look for a broken pipe or a corroded fitting. 

If there is anyway to isolate between the 2 check valves then you could measure 
the pressure drop on both sides which should point to the direction of the 
leak. 

Jay

> On May 25, 2024, at 7:41 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump. I'm getting water 
> flow in reverse either through the pump or a leak up to the pump. My question 
> is if the check valve on the top of the pump is not sealing, will the 
> progressive cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse? I'd 
> think that with a positive displacement pump it would not, except very slowly 
> or if it turned the motor backwards which I think would be very unlikely. 
> There is about 100 psi head on  the pump. 
> 
> I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the plumbing, and of 
> course another failed check valve farther up in the plumbing. It's possible 
> to get failures even with redundant protection if you have two concurrent 
> failures, which I must have here. 
> 
> Brad Bassett 
> Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the '80's and '90's. 
> Mostly retired now.
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Tech Support

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake,

What it says to me is that they either fired everyone or said move to tx.

I’ve always joked that if the potential project I’m to work on starts badly it 
never gets better.

I still don’t understand why the owners of EG4 would by a legacy inverter 
company?

Jay



> On May 24, 2024, at 4:20 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
>  
> With the sale of Outback, their tech support seems to have disappeared. 
> Around the time of the sale, tech support had agreed to send me a new control 
> stack for a Radian. After a long delay, they did send it, but were quick to 
> remind me to return the core.
>  
> When the new control stack was installed, the inverter would not work. The 
> error message was AC Out Voltage Low. I put the old one back in and returned 
> the one they sent. There is no one to talk to, and no one answers email.
>  
> Do you know if the new owners are planning to honor product warranty? Is tech 
> support coming back?
>  
> This is a pretty rough transition. It will likely leave a number of people in 
> the dark.
>  
> Fun Times Indeed!
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> -- 
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Outback

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I was talking to signature solar today. 
Signature solar and EG4 are sister companies. I don’t have info if one owns the 
other or if they are equal partners?

They did admit they bought OB. But didn’t know if signature or EG4 bought them. 

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JohnThx. I’ve had good experience with them too. JayOn May 20, 2024, at 8:20 PM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jay,     I have had good luck with Fortress eVaults with Radians.  3 eVault 18.4’s would do the trick. My only off grid customer running generator free in Vermont winters has 3 vaults and a Radian. JohnOn Mon, May 20, 2024 at 7:22 PM jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I don’t know who’s bigger or has more money. EG4 is a manufacturer Signature is a distributor Both are in the same town Some one on this site said EG4 said they bought OB. EG 4 makes more sense as they would have lots of Chinese manufacturing contacts. If OB is coming out with new products, I’d expect they are coming out of China. I could easily see them partnering with any of the large Chinese companies. I guess we will know soon. JayOn May 20, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches  wrote:At Intersolar (January) San Diego, I heard Bigbatterybox.com purchased Outback. Since then, I've heard it may be Signature Solar. I am unsure who purchased them, but with them being so close to Signature Solar, that makes sense. I'm not sure who purchased them, but they have been asleep at the wheel since then. They can't sell any product in Canada because they have let their CSA certificates lapse. Steve Higgins ⋅ 
Technical Services Manager 
 
 
t 
+1.902.597.4020  m 
+1.206.790.5840f +1.902.597.8447  e 
st...@surrette.com 
CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies.On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 4:45 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:So here is the scoop, I got it that outback is moving to Dallas and will still be a premium product, and yes the optics shut down had something to do with the sale. Everyone hold on as they say they have new products at SPI this fall. Keep your fingers crossed and let's all wait patiently.Fun times On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:53 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) SEC filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing related to the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly report :On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan to stop production and operations of residential renewable energy products, which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management determined that residential renewable energy products no longer fit with the company’s core strategy and resources will be better allocated toward commercial energy solutions for enterprise customers. The Company currently estimates that the total charges for these actions will amount to $23.5 million relating primarily to $22.6 million in non-cash charges primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived intangible asset write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including employee severance and retention payments. The plan is expected to be completed in fiscal 2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the Company recorded non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily related to indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was reported in cost of goods sold.To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement. Aloha,Lou Russo Ownerl...@spreesolarsystems.com808 345 6762Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I agree with you WilliamWhile there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime. What’s not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification that it was going to happen or had happened.  If they do have new owners they are not starting well. JayOn May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Friends: I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be down for days at a time is not a good sign at all. I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Lou Russo via RE-wrenchesSent: Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Lou RussoSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics All my sites are currently down. Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave a message. I do hope they are just in transition but I

Re: [RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi DanYes the UL 9540JayOn May 20, 2024, at 5:35 PM, Dan Fink via RE-wrenches  wrote:What specific UL listing(s) are they requiring? Around these parts it's been UL 9540 for all AHJs, and some requiring that even for lead-acid, despite the IFC exceptions and so few listed products (the IRC now seems to require UL 9540 even if the system is not grid-interconnected). UL 9540A is not an actual listing but an active fire test, results of which can be used to gain their UL 9540 and/or allow smaller offsets between each ESS unit and from windows, doors etc if their individual UL 9540A testing results allow that.Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342 On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 5:22 PM jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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[RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks 
are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I agree with you WilliamWhile there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime. What’s not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification that it was going to happen or had happened.  If they do have new owners they are not starting well. JayOn May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be down for days at a time is not a good sign at all. I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Lou Russo via RE-wrenchesSent: Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Lou RussoSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics All my sites are currently down. Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave a message. I do hope they are just in transition but I got a bad feeling about this. I hope I am wrong. Has anyone heard for sure who bought them? I know they were bought from talking to tech support but that is all I know and the Internet has 0 info on a recent sale.  On Sat, May 18, 2024, 6:48 AM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches  wrote:Mine all went down yesterday at noon MDT. I wonder if this has to do with the sale of Outback?Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342   On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 10:17 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: 100% of our Optics sites are down since 11 AM yesterday. Is it just us?William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.com ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Avalon

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

It’s an interesting design. I went to a seminar on it. Wiring the main power distribution center, is a bit tricky with how they designed or not wire room. Probably want to use cobra wire.  The battery voltage design is unusual in that more batteries increases the voltage, not bad just different. Web management looks good I presume you’re installing 5 of the 11kw units for 50kw or did you mean 50 kWh with 1 inverter?As to the high battery volts, I’m old enough to remember the push back against 48v. Or when GT solar was 48, and when SMA came out at 600v, it was way too high. Makes a lot of sense to go higher battery volts because with lithium it’s possible vs with lead it isn’t really. Hopefully there becomes a new common high voltage the OEM’s agree on.  New times. JayOn May 14, 2024, at 7:33 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I am looking at going high voltage as opposed to 48 volts. This is my largest battery system, I have a large distance between battery and inverter, 40 feet, the cost of wire, 50 kW, at 50 volts is 1000 amps.  I am thinking this is too big for me.  On Tue, May 14, 2024, 7:29 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello Wrenches,I am looking closely at offering the Fortress Avalon system.  I would like to hear from anyone that has installed, commissioned and seen them work in the field. Pros and cons, all of your thoughts are appreciated.Thanks!

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI William,

Yes the FM-100 has no problem with keeping the volts pretty tight and i’ve not 
heard of any lithium related issues, and someone is bound to chime in if there 
are.

jay



> On May 8, 2024, at 9:39 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Jay:
> 
> I am considering ditching the Sunny Boys and installing 2 Outback FM100s.  It 
> seems to me this might solve a few problems:
> 
> 1. The cc should voltage clamp and prevent over voltage when the batteries go 
> higher Z. 
> 2. The CCs should start up at lower voltages as soon as the sun comes out.  
> 3. One of the FM 100s could be configured to drive an AGS relay. 
> 4. The operation would be voltage dependent, not SOC dependent. 
> 
> My concern is the shallow voltage/charge curve. Can I set this system fine 
> enough to work reliably?
> 
> Has anyone used Outback charge controllers with lithium batteries?  Any 
> advice?
> 
> 
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 8:30 AM jay  > wrote:
> Hi William,
> 
> Since the SOC isn’t being reliable maybe due to not charging correctly?
> 
> I would recommend going to volts for the relay driver.  Thats why I suggested 
> the tristar with RD-1.
> Because really volts at full is the most accurate.
> Not knowing how many PV inputs you could do a cascade.
> 
> 
> jay
> 
>> On May 8, 2024, at 9:00 AM, William Miller > > wrote:
>> 
>> Jay:
>> 
>> Thank you for taking the time. 
>> 
>> We are doing just what you suggest as an interim solution. 
>> 
>> The shortcoming of this work-around is that the highest setting for this 
>> relay function is 90% SOC. This may not be high enough to recalibrate the 
>> BMS units. And again, relying on SOC to drive operational decisions becomes 
>> problematic when one can’t rely on the accuracy of the SOC value. 
>> 
>> 
>> William Miller
>> Miller Solar.com 
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 7:16 AM jay > > wrote:
>> A possible fix.
>> 
>> You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered 
>> to prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.
>> 
>> The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
>> has 4 channels.
>> 
>> Just a thought
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>>> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends:
>>>  
>>> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy 
>>> AC coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>>>  
>>> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
>>> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
>>> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
>>> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
>>> problem and they are working on a solution.
>>>  
>>> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
>>> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
>>> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The 
>>> SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as 
>>> high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery 
>>> voltage gets too low and the system shuts down.
>>>  
>>> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
>>> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>>>  
>>> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny 
>>> Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough 
>>> but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not 
>>> charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA 
>>> but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible 
>>> batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual 
>>> but I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is 
>>> pretty scary anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>>>  
>>> SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard 
>>> of this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a 
>>> huge pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc.
>>>  
>>> Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and 
>>> told the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a 
>>> very small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up 
>>> and allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the 
>>> system for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now.
>>>  
>>> Hopefully this trick may help one of you some 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi William,

Since the SOC isn’t being reliable maybe due to not charging correctly?

I would recommend going to volts for the relay driver.  Thats why I suggested 
the tristar with RD-1.
Because really volts at full is the most accurate.
Not knowing how many PV inputs you could do a cascade.


jay

> On May 8, 2024, at 9:00 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Jay:
> 
> Thank you for taking the time. 
> 
> We are doing just what you suggest as an interim solution. 
> 
> The shortcoming of this work-around is that the highest setting for this 
> relay function is 90% SOC. This may not be high enough to recalibrate the BMS 
> units. And again, relying on SOC to drive operational decisions becomes 
> problematic when one can’t rely on the accuracy of the SOC value. 
> 
> 
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 7:16 AM jay  > wrote:
> A possible fix.
> 
> You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered 
> to prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.
> 
> The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
> has 4 channels.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> jay
> 
>> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> Friends:
>>  
>> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC 
>> coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>>  
>> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
>> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
>> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
>> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
>> problem and they are working on a solution.
>>  
>> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
>> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
>> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The 
>> SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as 
>> high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery 
>> voltage gets too low and the system shuts down.
>>  
>> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
>> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>>  
>> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny 
>> Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough 
>> but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not 
>> charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA 
>> but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible 
>> batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but 
>> I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty 
>> scary anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>>  
>> SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of 
>> this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge 
>> pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc.
>>  
>> Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told 
>> the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very 
>> small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and 
>> allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system 
>> for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now.
>>  
>> Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth 
>> my time typing it out.
>>  
>> William
>>  
>> Miller Solar
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com 
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>  
>>  
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

A possible fix.

You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered to 
prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.

The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
has 4 channels.

Just a thought

jay

> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC 
> coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>  
> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
> problem and they are working on a solution.
>  
> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The SI 
> system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as high 
> the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery voltage gets 
> too low and the system shuts down.
>  
> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>  
> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny Islands 
> to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough but for 
> some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not charge 
> the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA but they 
> told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible batteries.  I 
> asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but I was told 
> this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty scary 
> anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>  
> SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of 
> this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge 
> pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc.
>  
> Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told 
> the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very 
> small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and 
> allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system 
> for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now.
>  
> Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth 
> my time typing it out.
>  
> William
>  
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com 
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi WilliamHave you talked to fortress about the SOC getting so out of calibration in such a short period of time?JayOn May 7, 2024, at 11:16 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.   As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real problem and they are working on a solution. Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery voltage gets too low and the system shuts down. I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet. Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty scary anyway so I was not inclined to try. SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc. Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now. Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth my time typing it out. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I wanted to follow up on this thread. According to the sol Ark website. The US 8 kw is rated at 120/240. Which I’ve always thought mean 3 wire. L1,L2,N. The US 5kw is 120v only. L1, N Do I have this correct?JayOn May 4, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:It does not do split-phase.  You either configure it for 120V or 240V, both single-phase (no neutral).On May 4, 2024, at 6:45 AM, Dana Orzel  wrote:& from what I was told this week split you only get 1/2 the power per leg? Please clarify if different _Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.comW - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!” ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Maybe the new 5kw 120v unit is the 8kw at 120v?JayOn May 3, 2024, at 4:22 PM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:David is correct.  We have some experience with Sol-Ark’s inverter, and it’s a good product.  However, be aware that you can configure it either as a 120V inverter with a max. output of about 5 kW or as a 240V inverter with a max. output of about 8 kW.  However, it does NOT do split-phase, meaning if you configure it for 240V, it cannot run loads that require a neutral.Tom McCalmontPaired PowerOn May 3, 2024, at 4:12 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:I think SolArk makes an 8K 120V-only versionDavidOn Fri, May 3, 2024 at 3:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you know otherwise. I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V inverter.I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for this job.And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match. I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the generator (or it won't start).My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. JohnOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load should be pretty minimal. I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that cost and complexity if possible.And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Large transformer losses

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

According to the nameplate 6% @ 170°cOn Apr 26, 2024, at 4:33 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Do you know the transformer impedance?On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 5:54 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hi all. 

Anyone know what the tare loss and efficiency is of a 75 kw transformer?
And it would be run mostly at 1-10kw max. 

This one specifically. 
hammond SG3L0075PE

I’m just curious about it. The situation is 240vac grid at the street, 600’ to the house 400 amps. 


Why 400 amps on a house with propane heat, cooking, water heater, dryer and no AC. 
I don’t know. 

Thanks
Jay



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[RE-wrenches] Large transformer losses

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all. 

Anyone know what the tare loss and efficiency is of a 75 kw transformer?
And it would be run mostly at 1-10kw max. 

This one specifically. 
hammond SG3L0075PE

I’m just curious about it. The situation is 240vac grid at the street, 600’ to 
the house 400 amps. 


Why 400 amps on a house with propane heat, cooking, water heater, dryer and no 
AC. 
I don’t know. 

Thanks
Jay



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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ve had no issues with qo over the years for 12v except if they get dirt in them from mud dobber wasps. JayOn Apr 26, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I agree with John also.  one of the better-performing off-grid houses I worked on used a 48 to 12-V Samlex converter. The 12-volt thick-walled refrigerator was about 4 amps at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and small TV drew very few amps each/  I also used an Outback 3648 inverter, which the homeowner turned on only. when needed (wash machine, etc.), I used SQ-D QO panel board in case the owner wanted to go to 120 volt AC future breaker panel. All lighting was Edison base lamps, and all wiring was NMB Romex.  I wired like a normal house except for a 120-v panel and 12-v panel I relay and momentary switch by appliance for easy turning on of AC inverter.   On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:49 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I agree with John. Most 12v fridges have small compressors. But I don’t know what they have. Personally a major reason to go 120/ac is to get a normal refrigerator. But you can measure the surge/load  and then size the charger accordingly. One feature of going charger is the lights are a lot brighter at night and last longer because they are not at 15v during the day. JayOn Apr 24, 2024, at 5:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if he has an inv

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Yeah definitely no second battery. On Apr 24, 2024, at 6:41 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,My vote would be for using a 120 to 12vDC power supply large enough to handle the remaining 12 vDC loads and skip the second battery bank. In my mind, this is simpler, cleaner, and if the power supply fails at some point, it is an easy replacement, if they still want to keep the DC loads then. Easier maintenance and operation for the client, less headache for you. I've definitely gravitated toward the KISS concept of the years, for both my and my clients' sanity...Howie MichaelsonSun CatcherOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:26 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load should be pretty minimal. I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that cost and complexity if possible.And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt 

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I agree with John. Most 12v fridges have small compressors. But I don’t know what they have. Personally a major reason to go 120/ac is to get a normal refrigerator. But you can measure the surge/load  and then size the charger accordingly. One feature of going charger is the lights are a lot brighter at night and last longer because they are not at 15v during the day. JayOn Apr 24, 2024, at 5:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if he has an inverter. 
 
He definitely wants LiPo batteries. 
 
I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting an inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and monitor things. 
 
I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 volt inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using a DC converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts for his existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I stick with a 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure pump which might be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit worried about the efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not sure how to size it.
 
Jason Szumlanski 
Florida Solar Design Group 
 
 
 
 
 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ve done this many times 

I use an Iota or power max charger to run the DC. 

Jay

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 2:42 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a 
> cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, 
> and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a 
> separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda 
> generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a 
> Trace C40.
> 
> He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM 
> batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for 
> what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he 
> was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would 
> probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or 
> triple his usable capacity.
> 
> For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate 
> or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 
> volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he 
> would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if he has an inverter. 
> 
> He definitely wants LiPo batteries. 
> 
> I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting an 
> inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and monitor 
> things. 
> 
> I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 volt 
> inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using a DC 
> converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts for his 
> existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I stick with a 
> 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure pump which might 
> be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit worried about the 
> efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not sure how to size it.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski 
> Florida Solar Design Group 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] speaking of batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

Speaking of batteries  I wonder what you all make of this.

I was reading the Fortress battery manual and it says they don’t recommend 
adding new lithium batteries to older lithium batteries if the age is over 1 
year difference.

Thoughts?

thanks
jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

No error message for CC fan

The fan should cycle from battery power off start up. 

I e never seen a CC produce zero watts. Reduced yes 

While the fan might be broken I don’t think that explains the issue.



> On Apr 23, 2024, at 11:36 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> If the fan fails would there be an error message?  As always, I looked this
> up before posting.  The manual is not clear on the matter.
> 
> William
> 
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 6:58 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Cc: MDElectricSolar
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help
> 
> It may be the fan. I had an FM 80 where the fan went bad that caused very
> limited solar production throughout the day.
> 
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:54 AM, jay via RE-wrenches
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> HI Jim,
>> 
>> The CC is sure suspect.
>> You didn’t mention what the battery voltage is.
>> Those CC have a hard PV watt input limit.
>> 
>> You can try and set it back to factory default and then reprogram,
>> sometimes that works.
>> 
>> I don’t use the FM-60, but always the FM-80 because of the fan
>> replacement.  the 80 takes 3 minutes, the 60 takes 2 hours.
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:00 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm troubleshooting the solar aspect of a small offgrid 120v outback
>>> system and need some opinions.  The customer was complaining that the
>>> generator was running too much so I went out to their property and
>>> investigated.  The solar array consists of 16 total panels (4 strings of
>>> 4).  At the combiner box, I took the voltage and amperage reading of each
>>> string and found the following..BREAKER 1 (85VDC/8.87A) BREAKER 2
>>> (84.5VDC/8.9A) BREAKER 3 (.03VDC/0A) BREAKER 4(85VDC/8.89A).  Breaker 3
>>> string was not producing and so I did a fix and then read
>>> (87.1VDC/8.43A).  After reviewing the online monitor since that fix from
>>> a few days prior I'm realizing that the first day after had 4.5KWH
>>> production, second day had 0.7KWH production, and yesterday had 0.3KWH
>>> production.sun has been out without clouds.  The 60A Outback charge
>>> controller shows there is PV voltage, but noticed it was in "silent mode"
>>> a good amount of time.  Charge controller is old, but all the other
>>> equipment was updated about a year and a half ago.  I was wondering if
>>> there is a way to diagnose if the charge controller is bad without just
>>> replacing it and what does it mean when it's in "silent mode".  Another
>>> side note is that their generator threw an AGS fault code on the MATE3
>>> controller and found that the generator has problems so I ended up
>>> turning from "auto" to "off"
>>> --
>>> Jim with Gowdy Electric
>>> Cambria, Ca 93428
>>> business  805 927 2630
>>> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Jim,

The CC is sure suspect. 
You didn’t mention what the battery voltage is. 
Those CC have a hard PV watt input limit.

You can try and set it back to factory default and then reprogram, sometimes 
that works.  

I don’t use the FM-60, but always the FM-80 because of the fan replacement.  
the 80 takes 3 minutes, the 60 takes 2 hours. 

jay

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:00 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm troubleshooting the solar aspect of a small offgrid 120v outback system 
> and need some opinions.  The customer was complaining that the generator was 
> running too much so I went out to their property and investigated.  The solar 
> array consists of 16 total panels (4 strings of 4).  At the combiner box, I 
> took the voltage and amperage reading of each string and found the 
> following..BREAKER 1 (85VDC/8.87A) BREAKER 2 (84.5VDC/8.9A) BREAKER 3 
> (.03VDC/0A) BREAKER 4(85VDC/8.89A).  Breaker 3 string was not producing and 
> so I did a fix and then read (87.1VDC/8.43A).  After reviewing the online 
> monitor since that fix from a few days prior I'm realizing that the first day 
> after had 4.5KWH production, second day had 0.7KWH production, and yesterday 
> had 0.3KWH production.sun has been out without clouds.  The 60A Outback 
> charge controller shows there is PV voltage, but noticed it was in "silent 
> mode" a good amount of time.  Charge controller is old, but all the other 
> equipment was updated about a year and a half ago.  I was wondering if there 
> is a way to diagnose if the charge controller is bad without just replacing 
> it and what does it mean when it's in "silent mode".  Another side note is 
> that their generator threw an AGS fault code on the MATE3 controller and 
> found that the generator has problems so I ended up turning from "auto" to 
> "off"
> -- 
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

ing> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering> 
>> <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> 
>> <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the 
>> addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged 
>> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the 
>> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you 
>> receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy 
>> this message and all copies.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
>> programming?
>> 
>> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down 
>> that the EG4 does not.
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> John,
>>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
>>> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the 
>>> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, 
>>> I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to 
>>> put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid 
>>> - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the 
>>> Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with 
>>> closed loop Li batteries. 
>>> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
>>> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and 
>>> the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
>>> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it 
>>> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to 
>>> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low 
>>> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 
>>> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments 
>>> to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide 
>>> to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or 
>>> Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
>>> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>>> 
>>> Howie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the 
>>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had 
>>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
>>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
>>> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
>>> with right away.. 
>>> 
>>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
>>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
>>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I 
>>> lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback 
>>> inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I 
>>> always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to 
>>> lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new 
>>> BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back 
>>> in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have 
>>> from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have 
>>> them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense 
>>> and time lost.
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> John Blittersdorf
>>> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
>>> 802-770-8625
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid array far, far from the batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Chris,


If you run all 6 in series 
that puts you about 2.6% vd with #4 wire
about 200vdc vmp and 10 amps.  

In cold enough weather you’re probably above the FM-100 so would put you in a 
600vdc controller.

I’d go with 600v controller vs doing AC coupling.

More efficient and the more volt you go the smaller the wire.

My 2 cents

jay




> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
>  
> The crazy things folks do.  Dear people:  We have a fellow who has an initial 
> off-grid array with a Radian 8048A (and related e-panel, etc.) and six 410W 
> Canadian solar modules.  He has six more of the same modules…but the ideal 
> site for solar is 900 feet away from his batteries and the rest of the 
> system.  Yeah, good planning, right?  
>  
> In terms of getting AC power out of his ‘new’ 6X array, Enphase won’t work 
> since he doesn’t have an Enphase system.  We’re looking at perhaps SMA or 
> Chilcon (so the size of the wire run won’t be so astronomical).  Any 
> suggestions?
>  
> Best,
>  
> Chris Daum
> Oasis Montana Inc.
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
> 406-777-4309 fax
> www.oasismontana.com 
>  
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi David,

I’m going to disagree.
The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
It says so right on the cover.  
And I’ve talked to Fortress about this.

Sol Ark is made by Deye

Jay

> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro  wrote:
> 
> I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye (same 
> Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
> Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls -  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
>  
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D>
> This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as SolArk, 
> I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead acid batteries 
> you have trick it. This process takes several iterations checking specific 
> gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched over perhaps a couple 
> months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so Steve's solution is to employ 
> the Equalize setting to actually achieve Absorption. Carefully record the 
> settings (voltage, duration, and frequency) that deliver a consistent 
> specific gravity in range.  On the rare occasions you actually need to 
> equalize, you do it in person. When equalization is complete you return the 
> settings back to your curated values.
>  
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
> programming?
> 
> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down 
> that the EG4 does not.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> John,
>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
>> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the 
>> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I 
>> would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put 
>> it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
>> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
>> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed 
>> loop Li batteries. 
>> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
>> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
>> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
>> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it 
>> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to 
>> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low 
>> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 
>> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to 
>> the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go 
>> this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to 
>> see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
>> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>> 
>> Howie
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the 
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had 
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
>> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
>> with right away.. 
>> 
>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
>> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
>> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one 
>> in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and 
>> was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
>> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
>> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that 
>> failed.  I have to ship 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
programming?

To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down that 
the EG4 does not.

Jay





> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the Envy 
> to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I would 
> emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put it 
> kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed loop 
> Li batteries. 
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it seemed 
> to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to be a 
> serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low stress 
> situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 18k is 
> paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to the 
> firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go this 
> route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to see 
> where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
> 
> Howie
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the eggs 
> in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had enough of 
> that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
> with right away.. 
> 
> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one in 
> reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and was 
> back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that 
> failed.  I have to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if 
> we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense and time lost.
> 
>
> 
> John Blittersdorf
> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
> 802-770-8625
> 
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi scott

Yes I think for new larger systems the AIO are the present/future

Jay

> On Apr 9, 2024, at 9:42 PM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
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[RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Does anyone know the pricing and when it’ll be available?

 The New Midnite MN15-12KW-AIO All in One (AIO) inverter

Looks good.

thanks

jay___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Steel pipe purlins

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

If your looking to fasten into the steel pipe you look at Dynamicfasteners.comGreat productsJayOn Apr 3, 2024, at 5:34 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:because it is an awning seems like you may be able to disturb the roof layer above the purlins, even if temporarily?If so then i think an Iron Ridge top cap could be turned upside down.  you can fasten the Ubolts around the purlinsmaybe overkill   and also maybe hard to waterproof, if waterproof is something they need  On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 3:59 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Colleagues: I have been asked to bid on installation of PV on a steel barn.  The mounting area is an awning with steel pipe purlins.  See photo below of a section of the plans.  I have mounted racking to a lot of different steel structures, but never one with steel pipe purlins.  I would normally use the EJOTs with thread forming shanks, but I don’t know how well they will work in steel pipe. Has anyone else ever faced this situation? Any help is appreciated. William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s error vs. event log

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

2 things. Maybe you can sell them a service contract and clear/check the events 1x week via optics. I don’t know if there is a way to prioritize events. To me Ive always had good success with the fndc in regards to be pretty accurate for reading %. Getting rid of it seems the wrong way to go. And Lones is happily retired from OB. JayOn Apr 3, 2024, at 11:03 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches  wrote:Greetings Kirk,It is my understanding that the “charged parms met” comes from the FNDC since that is the component measuring the current and going by those guidelines in the “Battery Setup” menu assigned to the FNDC port. This would seem like a reasonable test and could be done remotely through Opticsre without requiring a trip to the site as well. Perhaps Lones can comment on this strategy?Sometimes the smallest insignificant details can trigger a client regardless of how well we did with the rest of the system. I feel for you!Nick

On Apr 2, 2024, at 12:42 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:Hi,Are you saying that this "charged parms met" message is actually coming from the Flexnet? I do have a flexnet in this system. The event log states the originating port to be "M", as from the Mate3s itself.On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 1:49 AM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello Kirk,Does the client rely on the fully charged indicator anyway? Perhaps defeat some of the settings that will satisfy the targets of the Flexnet? Maybe set the “charged voltage” to something a few volts higher than your absorption set point and/or take the timer all the way up to 240 minutes? It’s definitely frustrating that some clients are scared to press any buttons on the Mate, even that Events button can intimidate apparently!Nick On Apr 1, 2024, at 12:08 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello All,I have a customer with a OB Radian GS8048A, grid tied, which logs a "charged parms met" message regularly. When it does, the event log LED on the 3s starts blinking. My customer thinks it's an error, and calls me. I Wish I could somehow defeat this event, and any non-error, from blinking the event LED for everyone's sanity.Charged parms met is not an error, but it's crying fire in a theater to have this annoyance occurring. It happens several times a week. Is there any way to keep non-errors from flashing the LED?OB tech support is starting to have long lead times, so I am asking here first. Thanks.-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

As to the envy not being good for LA batteries. Yes rhe 60v max is just too low. Does it have 3 stage charging?I’m curious to see what the new midnite solar inverter has to offer. It shows up to 64v battery. JayOn Mar 28, 2024, at 6:44 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Howie,    I might be interested in taking the Envy off your hands.  I haven't made the move from Outback equipment but have joined the LFP world. I also like to testnew products on my own off grid system and have 3 e-Flex batteries.  Contact me off list if interested.John Blittersdorfjohn.blittersd...@gmail.co On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:30 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:William, I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress. I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets, particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older 1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new to me equipment in my own place, I do so). I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs. So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this setting. In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with lead acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead Acid battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying to understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be serious shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over several calls about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told that I should not use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for such use, and if i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact words). This inspite of their sales team and advertising saying otherwise. It was one of the worst support  interactions I've  had since talking with Xantrex (about issues with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's functionality) 20 years ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for. I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am frustrated, hence this missive.I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it. Howie MichaelsonOn Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled system.  If not, here is the case study. The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back. I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste some solar capability. I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists. To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to use, which is the reason for this post. Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress. Hi William, Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still actively working on this case to provide you with a solution. We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mounts

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Here is an interesting design. PowerField Energy PowerRack PV solar ballasted ground mount systemsolar-electric.comOn Mar 21, 2024, at 11:08 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches  wrote:Is Aerocompact still around ?  They had a nice simple ballasted ground mountBrad BassettOn Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 10:45 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches  wrote:Thanks for the info, Sam.I guess that I should have mentioned that I am looking at an 8kw residential application.Shine On!Kris SchmidLegacy Solar, LLC137 West 1st AvenueLuck, WI 54853www.legacysolar.com715-653-4295NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalLicensed Wisconsin Master ElectricianBSEEOn Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:39 PM Sam Haraldson  wrote:I have experience with the APA Solar Racking Geo Ballast system and RBI Solar's Ballasted Landfill Solution (GM-BL).  Both were simple and effective.  The APA system consists of metal cages that get built on site and then locally sourced river rock is added via skid steer.  The RBI product uses huge, pre-cast concrete block that get formed at a nearby facility and then are set into place with a large telehandler.  Both of these solutions are manufacturer-engineered on a per-project basis and as such have a minimum project size before they'll consider you.  So they're good options for 100kw and up projects but not backyard systems.  Cheers,Sam

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enohase tech support

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi David.

This one is a standard newer version Envoy S.  

I’ve had this exact same issue of tech “support” numerous times.  I had to go 
to my neighbors to confirm that the panels were wired correctly, after they had 
been installed for years.  I’m not making this up.

Seems to really depend on who you get on the phone if they will help you or not 
which isn’t good. 

Thats why I”m looking for any help to find the right phone number or person who 
will/can help.

I’m guessing its either the envoy needs to be rebooted or its broken. 

thanks

jay



> On Mar 15, 2024, at 11:49 AM, david quattro  wrote:
> 
> wow, your experience is worse than anything I've ever heard of from Enphase 
> tech support. My experience with them is this: they know their old Envoys are 
> garbage (the M-Series are failing left and right now). The executives made 
> the decision that they will no longer manufacture new M-Envoys. I don't know 
> their posture regarding S-Series, I haven't seen those fail yet. So instead 
> of selling you a good brand new M-Envoy, they try to connive you into 
> replacing 100% of your microinverters with IQ-Enphase - you know, because 
> they are such a great, responsible company.
>   Actual options moving forward are to find a used M-Series Envoy that you 
> have tested in-house before you go on your 5 hour drive. I have one I can 
> sell you. Or you deliver the bad news to the customer and tell them the truth 
> - they are flying blind without a functioning Envoy.  Ground mounts aren't 
> that bad since you could teach the customer to walk up and verify PV current 
> on each module with a decent meter.  For me essentially all of my Enphase 
> fleet went onto residential rooftops where regular access is not an option. 
> What kills me about Enphase is that every step of the way over the last 15 
> years - EVERY single time they changed their inverter architecture, they 
> promised that all the new stuff would be backward compatible with old gear. 
> And every single time, they were full of it.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 9:49 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Is there anyway to get tech support with remote coms?
> 
> I got a call just the other day from someone with an envoy. It’s stopped 
> communicating to enohase. Enphase says they need the installer who’s now 
> gone. 
> They just won’t help the customer. 
> It’s about a 5 hr round trip for me. Which is nuts as I’ll have to 
> communicate with enohase anyway. 
> 
> And I’ve heard rhis exact issue multiple times from numerous people. Envoy 
> has lights but has stopped communicating. I’ve heard enohase tech say “the 
> panels are wired wrong. “. You mean they magically changed after 10 years?
> 
> Does anyone have a person/number etc of who will help them?
> 
> Thanks
> Jay
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Enohase tech support

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all

Is there anyway to get tech support with remote coms?

I got a call just the other day from someone with an envoy. It’s stopped 
communicating to enohase. Enphase says they need the installer who’s now gone. 
They just won’t help the customer. 
It’s about a 5 hr round trip for me. Which is nuts as I’ll have to communicate 
with enohase anyway. 

And I’ve heard rhis exact issue multiple times from numerous people. Envoy has 
lights but has stopped communicating. I’ve heard enohase tech say “the panels 
are wired wrong. “. You mean they magically changed after 10 years?

Does anyone have a person/number etc of who will help them?

Thanks
Jay

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[RE-wrenches] DC fountain pumps

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

Any recommendations for quality DC fountain pumps?

Brands, suppliers etc

thanks

jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolyte level measurement

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi williamFor checking level the best trick I’ve ever seen is a solid glass rod. I can’t remember if you have to grind one end flat or not. When you put the end into the water the top end your looking at changes color. The side you look at would be the one you grind. Mark the rod with tape or use an adjustable stop and you can fill or check the water exactly to the level you want. Easily adjustable to different batteries. For filling. The one steve recommended is classic. The other technique is to use surgical tubing inserted into the end of a 2.5 gallon jug or drill a hole in the top of a 1 gallon. The correct size tubing won’t leak. And your fingers can start/stop the flow. On Feb 28, 2024, at 12:59 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: In spite of all of this talk about Li batteries, I still maintain a whole lot of flooded cells.  I have always struggled with getting accurate measurements of the electrolyte level.  Staring past a flashlight down into a cell looking with one eye through scratched safety glasses, it is hard to see just how high (or low) the level is.  I am cogitating on a few ideas to make this easier and more accurate, but in the meantime, what are your favorite tricks for this? TIA William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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[RE-wrenches] 30% ITC

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

A question maybe someone/s can answer or offer up some thoughts. 

A neighbor who’s an economist asked me the following question  

Does the 30% ITC increase the cost of solar?

By which he ment that are installers, wholesalers, etc increasing the cost of 
product and installations because of the ITC? 

I figure it adds something but not 30%. However I have no data to go on. 

Anyone know anything I might tell him or a link to a study etc?  

Thanks in advance 

Jay




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: $300 + transmission fee!

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi williamIs California now doing demand charges? And is it instantaneous or 15 minute average?  JayOn Feb 25, 2024, at 11:23 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends:I am pondering a plan to prevent usage spikes. It would involve installing a battery inverter that has true generator support. Connect the utility to the generator input on the inverter and program the generator amps to just below the threshold that incurs peak demand charges. If the load exceeds that amount occasionally the inverter supplies the difference. The battery is sized to sustain the shortfall for the expected duration. The potential to save $300 a month provides a budget for the project. William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 9:12 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Peter,

Right, that is about it. The fee is a monthly fee. It will take a year 
of keeping the spike below that before the fee will be dropped from the 
bill.

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional


---


On 2024-02-23 11:12, pgir...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Drake
> 
>   AEP should be able to provide your client ( if they are the one
> asking ) with a real time readout showing the "spike / load increase "
> and what actual equipment they had to install. Sounds a bit dodgy.
> What's next, special fees for homeowners who kick on the well pump
> flushing a toilet while using a hairdryer at the same time?
> 
> Peter Giroux
> ASAE
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches  On
> Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2024 10:57 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] $300 + transmission fee!
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> A system we installed several years ago is on an old school building
> that has been repurposed to office space and small shops. The loads
> are very small. The electric bill, during the short days of the year
> with lots of clouds (very little solar), was around $30.
> 
> Suddenly the electric bill came with a $300+ fee for transmission. AEP
> claimed that the load, at some point, went over a certain amount of
> power, so that the company had to charge for equipment that would
> handle that load year around. No equipment changes have been made. The
> service is 200 A.
> 
> Has anyone else encountered this? I wonder if there is any other type
> of rate schedule the building could be put on to eliminate this
> problem.
> AEP is not forthcoming about rate schedules or this issue.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV
> Installation Professional
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non-battery string inverter options?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi williamFronius 7.6 kw are in stock. I’ve installed a number of fronius with no issues. JayOn Feb 22, 2024, at 4:56 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: Now that RSS is required on almost every installation, I am having trouble finding a plain old, non-battery, non-MLPE string inverter.  This is for a ground mount with the inverter mounted to the rack-- the only scenario I can imagine that does not require RSS.  I don’t need or want battery capability, now or in the future.  The project does not have shading issues and the inverter will be mounted on the array, so no version of MLPE is needed. My usual go-to would be the legacy SMA Sunny Boy series.  I can’t dine one for sale and I am getting the impression these are no longer available. What might you recommend for this new installation? This brings up the question:  Of all the Sunny Boy installations I  have out there, the next time one fails, what am I going to replace it with?   The new Sunny Boy Smarty-Pants series is not yet shipping, it is very expensive and to replace a grid-connected inverter I don’t need battery capabilities. I can’t use Solar Edge because I won’t want to unwire a complete array and add optimizers. I am not that taken with Sol-Ark, not only because it includes the word Arc in its name.  I don’t need the battery capabilities, AC load center or any of the other complexities. Any advice is appreciated. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Board Repair

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JohnThe work around is to make sure you e got a new enough serial number to at least talk to them about what ever the issue is. But this is a huge new development in a bad way.JayOn Feb 22, 2024, at 6:55 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:I just tried to get Outback tech support and the message was if the product is under warranty, stay on the line for next available rep.  If not warranty. contact Zonna Energy or NAZ Solar !On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 10:14 PM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches  wrote:Regarding AEE and off grid support, I'm not really in touch with them much any more so I can't say. You could ask Glenn Hall, he'd be able to say if he's heard anything about hiring a new tech.  Of course finding someone with much off grid experience would be hard. Glenn and Alex do have some experience and may be able to help out. BradOn Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 12:15 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches  wrote:Zonna is a dependable resource. I often find they have more repair boards and parts in their inventory than Outback does themselves. Whether the older legacy boards or newer VFXR series, Zonna has them. I think of them as the off grid distributor solution provider that AEE used to be known for.Bradley B., has AEE made any effort to hire anyone that can attempt to offer the type of support and knowledge you were known for? Perhaps this is the reason they are phasing out Outback?Wallace, am I understanding correctly that they now offer repair services or refurbished board sets? I’ve only purchased new from them in the past and last time it seemed Kris Stone was perhaps too overburdened for an expedient repair solution. Judging by the amount of failures myself or other off grid focused Outback dealers out there I imagine Kris would be tied up for years! Not trying to throw any negativity towards Outback as I know many are trying to deal with growing pains and providing sufficient support but it can certainly be painful at times. Really looking forward to going all in on Midnite’s newest offerings once they get the comms box out. Really loving the Barcelona and Rosie so far.Nick



On Feb 21, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches  wrote:Zonna Energy is one option.  Thats zone-ahI sent them a faulty radian stack after they sent me a repaired one.330-674-1750.   Ask for Amos or  Ext. 2.   zonnaenergy.comOn Feb 21, 2024, at 11:00 AM, Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi All,I'm looking to move along some damaged Outback (GVFX and VFX) boards.    I found an older thread referencing Kris Stone, but didn't have luck with the email.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks!  -- Matt SheraldPIMBY Energy, LLC304-704-5943___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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[RE-wrenches] AP systems contact info

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Does anyone have a working phone number for AP systems?

I have a system that works but all the LED lights don’t work on the inverters

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[jay via RE-wrenches]

A number of people have mentioned strict code compliance.  
How are lead batteries dealing with this? 

thanks
jay

> On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:27 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chris;
> 
> I was definitely moving to the LFP camp for off grid for all the same reasons 
> you mentioned, but I've just had too much trouble, so I'm heading back to 
> lead acid for now.  I missed the acid burned jeans, its a "look". 
> 
> Seriously, you mentioned customers coming back to a lead acid battery at 16 
> v; how about a $12k LFP bank doing the same thing?  At least lead acid can be 
> recovered to some extent.  I'm not married to either platform, I just want to 
> spend my customers' money on the most reliable solution, and after having 
> both temperature related issues, and failed BMS, lead acid is back.  Maybe 
> when my current lead acid installations need to be replaced, LFP will have 
> solved 2 very important issues:
> 1) More Robust BMS boards that can be field replaced.
> 2) On board heating system for below freezing conditions.  
> 
> I think we're close, but definitely not there.  
> 
> Also, with all the mention of various UL listings, regulation needs to evolve 
> to differentiate between LiFePO4 and other Li+ chemistries.  LiFePO4 is 
> inherently much safer, but we're being forced to comply with all the same 
> regulations as the less stable, more energy dense chemistries. 
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 
> On 2/16/2024 8:44 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> Howie,
>> 
>> The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by the same manufacturer, 
>> LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will all make sense.  I can’t speak for 
>> EG4, but I know that Fortress has progressed from simply white labeling this 
>> unit to doing a significant amount of programming and additional 
>> integration, specifically with regards to their monitoring platform. 
>> 
>> Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach with EG4. The EX line was 
>> chintzy at best. Every prospective client I have crossed paths with that has 
>> called out EG4 equipment thinks they know more and want it cheaper because 
>> they watched a few YouTube videos where unqualified DIY hacks free air 
>> conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 off completely, and am interested in 
>> their PowerPro battery. But with the ebb and flow of battery manufacturers, 
>> I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t around in 5 years. I feel 
>> differently about Fortress Power and although they have been a little 
>> overactive in the inverter market, I do believe that they are well 
>> intentioned and that their products and business are solid. 
>> 
>> There has been some recent LFP bashing, and respectfully, I will agree to 
>> disagree. Early iterations of LFP had frequent issues with BMS and cell 
>> failure, but all in all, LFP has been a shining star in off-grid 
>> applications. I say this having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in strictly 
>> off-grid scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary firmware 
>> updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault Max), but I’m 
>> not having the heartbreaking conversations of “when we came back from 
>> vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank was at 15 volts”. I don’t like those 
>> phone calls. I also don't like holes in my pants and shirts or calls that CO 
>> monitors are alarming because of dead vent fans. I’m not dying on the hill 
>> of LFP, but I will say that I am firmly in support of the measurable 
>> improvements they have made for my customers. Paired with remote monitoring, 
>> the truck rolls a lot less. 
>> 
>> Kindly,
>> 
>> Chris 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in general is 
>> a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not be 
>> important to various DIY folks of varying levels of "git-er-done," but 
>> listings are critical for my business. Some products they sell are Listed 
>> per NEC, some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently 
>> contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and did 
>> not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid client had 
>> already purchased an entire rack of them before consulting with me. Our 
>> county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk recommending or installing a system 
>> that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often even cross check the 
>> altitude ratings on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I like so 
>> much, limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude)
>> 
>> Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on the 
>> EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they said 
>> should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did not seem to 
>> understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing - 

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

fortress is making improvements to their firmware for sure. The fortress envy 12 has generator warmup/cool down which is a really important feature  IMO. The eg4 not. Nor does the Deye sol ark. JayOn Feb 16, 2024, at 8:48 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches  wrote:Howie,The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by the same manufacturer, LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will all make sense.  I can’t speak for EG4, but I know that Fortress has progressed from simply white labeling this unit to doing a significant amount of programming and additional integration, specifically with regards to their monitoring platform. Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach with EG4. The EX line was chintzy at best. Every prospective client I have crossed paths with that has called out EG4 equipment thinks they know more and want it cheaper because they watched a few YouTube videos where unqualified DIY hacks free air conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 off completely, and am interested in their PowerPro battery. But with the ebb and flow of battery manufacturers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t around in 5 years. I feel differently about Fortress Power and although they have been a little overactive in the inverter market, I do believe that they are well intentioned and that their products and business are solid. There has been some recent LFP bashing, and respectfully, I will agree to disagree. Early iterations of LFP had frequent issues with BMS and cell failure, but all in all, LFP has been a shining star in off-grid applications. I say this having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in strictly off-grid scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary firmware updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault Max), but I’m not having the heartbreaking conversations of “when we came back from vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank was at 15 volts”. I don’t like those phone calls. I also don't like holes in my pants and shirts or calls that CO monitors are alarming because of dead vent fans. I’m not dying on the hill of LFP, but I will say that I am firmly in support of the measurable improvements they have made for my customers. Paired with remote monitoring, the truck rolls a lot less. Kindly,Chris On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches  wrote:The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in general is a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not be important to various DIY folks of varying levels of "git-er-done," but listings are critical for my business. Some products they sell are Listed per NEC, some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and did not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid client had already purchased an entire rack of them before consulting with me. Our county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk recommending or installing a system that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often even cross check the altitude ratings on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I like so much, limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude)Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on the EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they said should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did not seem to understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing - it's a fire-resistance test that an ESS manufacturer can use as a document to help obtain their actual UL9540 listing, and also gain exemptions to spacing and other requirementsbut from my understanding it's NOT an actual UL or NRTL listing to UL 9540. When I inquired about that, Signature Solar stopped communicating with me.I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540 listing vs. 9540A testing is correct, but I would appreciate any input before again gently confronting both AHJs and manufacturers. Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi williamCould you share the equipment used and what issues you had?ThxJayOn Feb 14, 2024, at 3:13 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Peter: I have only purchased one set of Fortress batteries.  There have been issues, I am sure many of them self-induced.  Fortress has been overall very responsive.  There have been a few days where I could not get through to technical support but with persistence I always manage.  Fortress has offered truck–roll compensation at a reasonable rate as well. William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenchesSent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:47 AMTo: 'RE-wrenches'Cc: pgir...@mindspring.comSubject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Good morning my fellow wrenchers. While I see the comments on SunPower and the challenges, are any of you having similar issues with Fortress? Their bms boards from the early classics have not held up and even after replacement there are still issues ( parallel batteries and stand alone not showing accurate #’s,  ). While support has been, well supportive, the issues persist. Any thoughts or fixes you have come up with?? I just had a customer unplug the coms cable from their sol-ark and bring their readings to volts VS %% and it is starting to work a bit better. Any and all help or ideas appreciated. Thxpeter GirouxAmerican SolarNorcross Ga
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Kevin

Thanks, I heard that exact thing from someone else.

Do you know if the CC are connected via Xanbus, does that also prevent EQ in 
the CC?

Jay

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 4:36 PM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have seen the same behaviour on a few older XW6048's as well - including my 
> own. It will go into EQ mode after completion of Absorb charge, but voltage 
> does not increase as programmed. Adjusting the absorb settings manually is a 
> clumsy workaround. I assumed it's a software bug. 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
> jay via RE-wrenches
> Sent: February-12-24 11:36 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc: jay 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW EQ question
> 
> HI All,
> 
> I have a client with an older XW 6048 with 2 x XW-60 controllers, SCP etc.
> 
> He can’t seem to get the EQ to work with either equipment.
> 
> Its set to 62.4v for Rolls flooded batteries, but it won’t go above 60v.
> 
> It is charging normally to just at 60v so its not a temp sensor failure.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> thanks
> 
> jay
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] XW EQ question

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All,

I have a client with an older XW 6048 with 2 x XW-60 controllers, SCP etc.

He can’t seem to get the EQ to work with either equipment.

Its set to 62.4v for Rolls flooded batteries, but it won’t go above 60v.

It is charging normally to just at 60v so its not a temp sensor failure.

Any thoughts?

thanks

jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] In search of better generator start relay for Outback system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I would use a sealed relay. The SS one should work. Or a 12v cube relay like in cars.  Super cheap and reliable JayBOSCH 0332209150 Changeover Mini Relay - 5 Pins, 12 V, 20/30 A - Singleamazon.comOn Feb 9, 2024, at 12:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Dan: I think a solid state relay is indicated here.  There are many out there.  Here is a link to one at Digikey: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wago-corporation/859-739/15520805 The datasheet (attached) shows operating limits of -25 to 70 degree C.  There are other options at Digikey that work down to -40 degrees C. Good luck, William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink via RE-wrenchesSent: Friday, February 9, 2024 9:28 AMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Dan FinkSubject: [RE-wrenches] In search of better generator start relay for Outback system Esteemed Wrenches - Finally successfully troubleshot an intermittent AGS problem that has been nagging one of my remote-grid clients for 1.5 winters now. Of course it's a 4-hour drive from my office. During winter snowstorms (when they need the AGS the most of course) the generator had only about 50:50 chance of starting. So I'd travel to the site (sometimes just the client would do it and I'd guide him by phone), pull up the Gen menu on the Mate 3S, hit ON and it wouldn't start. No bueno. Walk up to the generator (propane with Honda engine) and verify it's on Auto. Start it with the main switch to ON, starts right up, so not a gen battery problem. Run it for an hour or so, stop it with the switch on the gen, put it back to Auto, and everything works perfectly from Mate 3S AGS for 1-2 days, including remote start from OpticsRE. Then the problem (sometimes) comes up again when nobody is there. I just happened to hit the site at exactly the right time last week right as a big snowstorm was moving in, and was finally able to figure it out with really good raingear and a multimeter: The Outback Flexware remote gen start relay OBR-16-DIN was icing up internally, I had added it in the gen compartment when we upgraded the client from an old Trace SW  to an Outback (SW had a big AGS relay, Outback sent a 12VDC signal to trigger the external relay we added). DIAG - new Outback OBR-16-DIN relay would get frosty internally when high humidity snowstorms would move in, that's why it sometimes didn't work from the Mate 3S or OpticsRE. Run the gen for an hour, the internal gen compartment warms up, the frost melts off of the relay, then all the AGS from Mate 3S and OpticsRE works fine. Have any of all y'all run into this problem, and is there a more reliable relay to use that won't ice up? not outside exposed to weather, but inside the outside gen enclosure. I have zero space available in the VFX  MNDC enclosure in the house to put in the Flexware AGS relay, it would need a separate enclosure. The easiest solution I can see is just find a relay to fit into the gen compartment that does the same as the Outback version, but doesn't ice up. Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions. Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium batteries

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

, this week I heard
  their "diagnosis", and then I saw Jay's timely post? I knew it was
  time.  

Sincerely, 

Ray Walters
  Remote Solar

On 2/7/2024 9:19 AM, jay via
  RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  One of the things that I’m just now learning is about BMS
  failure/warranty/fix/replacement.   
  
  
  Some can be field installed some need to go back to
the OEM.
  
  
  I guess its something else we need to check on.  
  
  
  Jay
  
  
  

  
On Feb 7, 2024, at 9:06 AM, Bradley Bassett
  via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
  wrote:


  Read the warranty. Very limited
uses to maintain coverage. Mfg by an Italian Co that is
somewhat condescending toward customers. But of course
East Penn is good to work with. My understanding is that
they do work with the three phase Sol-Ark inverters. 


Brad
  
  
  
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at
  4:52 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
  wrote:


  

  
Pals:
 

Anyone have any experience with
this product, good or bad?
 

https://www.mkbattery.com/products/energy-storage#deka
 

We have had excellent results using
their flooded and valve regulated lead-acid
batteries.
 

William
 

Miller
Solar
17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA
Lic. 773985
 

 

  

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[RE-wrenches] rolls battery question

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me off the top of their head if older Rolls 

6CS 25PS

Do they have welded or bolted internal connections?

I have a site I’m going to, very remote that might have a bad cell or two and 
I’m just figuring out how I’m going to bypass the bad cells. 

thanks

jay


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[RE-wrenches] Lithium batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

One of the things that I’m just now learning is about BMS 
failure/warranty/fix/replacement.   

Some can be field installed some need to go back to the OEM.

I guess its something else we need to check on.  

Jay



> On Feb 7, 2024, at 9:06 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Read the warranty. Very limited uses to maintain coverage. Mfg by an Italian 
> Co that is somewhat condescending toward customers. But of course East Penn 
> is good to work with. My understanding is that they do work with the three 
> phase Sol-Ark inverters. 
> 
> Brad
> 
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 4:52 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Pals:
> 
>  
> Anyone have any experience with this product, good or bad?
> 
>  
> https://www.mkbattery.com/products/energy-storage#deka 
> 
>  
> We have had excellent results using their flooded and valve regulated 
> lead-acid batteries.
> 
>  
> William
> 
>  
> Miller Solar
> 
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 
> 805-438-5600
> 
> www.millersolar.com 
> CA Lic. 773985
> 
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Insight Home and Insight Cloud

[jay via RE-wrenches]

I guess the SCP is back in production.  

But if I understand correctly you still need the insight to program the XWPRO 
versions?

thx 

jay


> On Feb 7, 2024, at 8:50 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> My experience with using Insight and Xanbus is that the projects never end. 
> It is too bad, since Schneider equipment seems really good. The software 
> issues don't seem to ever get completely solved. Possibly with a very simple 
> system, the Xanbus might work OK. 
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
> 
> ---
>  
> 
> 
> On 2024-02-05 12:27, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
>> Aloha All,
>>  
>> I recently installed 2 new off-grid systems using all Scneider products, 
>> Discover 7.4 batteries and the Insight Home all setup in Insight Cloud. Both 
>> systems are experiencing communications issues with Insight Cloud and a bit 
>> on the Xanbus. Though each in a different way. 
>>  
>> Before I go into specifics, has anyone else been having issues with Insight 
>> Cloud or the Xanbus recently? 
>> Just wondering if it is a me problem or a they problem.
>>  
>> I have gone through all the standard tech support phone call instructions. 
>> All firmware updated, comms cables checked, internet speeds confirmed to be 
>> good, system set back to system defaults and reprogrammed, etc...
>>  
>> Thanks for your time.
>> 
>> Aloha,
>>  
>> Lou Russo 
>> Owner
>> l...@spreesolarsystems.com 
>> 808 345 6762
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC 
>> CT-34322
>>  
>> 
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[RE-wrenches] Lorentz pumps

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Does anyone know if Lorentz pumps still exist in the US. 

Someone is looking for a PS200 control box. 
It seems to be intermittent 

Thx
Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Recommendation on DC Breaker

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’d use an IMO disconnect as you don’t have any current limitations. 

I think sometimes things get lost in translation. 

Jay



> On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:43 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am installing an EG4 off-grid 3k inverter for the first time, and the 
> manual requires a DC circuit breaker on the PV input. It will be a small PV 
> array with adjusted max Voc around 280V @ Isc 10.6A.
> 
> I'm looking for a cost-effective DC breaker and enclosure for this purpose.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
> 
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[RE-wrenches] sol ark 15kw

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All,

I have some sol ark 15  questions, and I’m sure someone out there has the 
answer as I can’t seem to find it in their literature 

How much can it output AC with solar:  offgrid and ongrid in sell back mode.

What I read was 15kw, but I can’t figure out if thats both on/off grid or not?

thanks in advance

Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd battery charging behavior with Outback inverters

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

There is or was a setting in the mate 3/s that the rebulk volts has a trigger. If the voltage doesn’t get below it it won’t charge (absorb) properly. Fix is to set the rebulk up higher than the charge voltsI don’t know if that’s your issue or not but I have fixed this  on systems. JayOn Jan 12, 2024, at 8:52 AM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches  wrote:Good Morning Everyone, The graphs look like something is bypassing the absorb timers.   I haven't been at Outback for a long time now, but from my experience, this can be caused by the FNDC, end amps programming of the FM Controllers,  or the operating mode of the inverter. On the FM Charge Controllers: In the Advanced menus are the End Amps settings; this should be programmed to about .5 to 1% of the battery bank capacity at the most.  If the absorb timers are over 4 hours, I would defeat this setting altogether, especially if they charge lead batteries.   The issue with this setting is most lead manufacturers want the current going into the battery under charge to fall to less than 2-3% for 60 mins.   The timer in the FM's is only 3 mins and is not programmable.    On the FNDC: Still, to this day, I find FNDC installations that are not correctly programmed, even from experienced installers.  It does not help that the FNDC was a very misunderstood product. The FNDC has 5 Settings that Matter:   Battery Capacity,  End Amps, Parameters Met Time, Parameters Met Voltage, and Battery Charge Factor%. Battery Capascity = C20 Battery Capascity. End Amp 2-3% of the C20 rateThe settings that trip up most are met voltage, Met Time, and BCF%.   The Met time for FLA, AGM, and GEL should be 45 to 60 mins. For LFP, it should be around 30 mins.   It could be 45 to 60 minutes if you have over three parallel strings of LFP batteries. A bit longer will allow for better balancing between strings.     Parameters Met Voltage should be one step under the target absorb voltage.   So, if you charge 59.2, this should be set to 58.8. As for the Mode of the inverter, if the inverter is attempting to support or grid sell, these modes will shorten the charging and bypass the Absrob timers depending on how low the battery voltage dropped and for how long.   In the old days, this used to be on only the GT-version inverters; now, it's present in all of them. It just depends on what mode the inverter is programmed to operate in.  For a straight off-grid system, generator mode is the correct mode, but it's been a while, and I would have to check the OB documentation as to what mode to operate in. Contact me offlist or call me, and maybe I can better explain it... I do have an optics account (st...@surrette.com). If you invite me to view your setup, I may be able to take a look and help find the setting(s) causing this, but I would look first for the above-mentioned issues. One last thing: it could be a failing battery cell or connection issue, as this would also trigger end amps terminations early.  The problem with this is you have a lot of installs doing the same thing, so this is a settings issue rather than failing cells. Hope this helps! Steve Higgins ⋅ 
Technical Services Manager 
 
 
t 
+1.902.597.4020  m 
+1.206.790.5840f +1.902.597.8447  e 
st...@surrette.com 
CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies.On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 4:33 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:William,This is a very timely question, I have been seeing the same thing.  I also don't allow any Flexnet interference in charging.  I went to investigate a site yesterday and figured this one out.It turned out that the Flexnet was uncalibrated by about 1V on the low side.  This was a Lithium site and so there was not significant absorb time and that 1 V is very significant.  The solar controller and Radian were calibrated properly so it looked on Optics as though we were never getting full but we were.The Flexnet is a real mixed bag.  Its great to have the info but I don't like the difficulty of calibration (loose nuts in the casing) and that the Mate defaults to using its voltage meter.  We try to calibrate these as closely as possible.One thing I've noticed when I'm following up others work is that the majority have incorrectly wired/programmed Flexnet DC.  They will not have the appropriate shunts activated and so the system constantly reads 100%.  A lot of these systems are installed using Outback prewired panels (Im not sure who builds these).If your customer is savvy, you can have them unplug the cable from the Hub that feeds the Flexnet.  If the voltage changes significantly, then the calibration could be the issue.Please keep us 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Recommendations for A/B battery switch

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Ron,

I prefer to use two ON/OFF switches rather than A/B.  That way you can always 
have power to the loads if you want. 

I can’t say they are the best but the Perko 9703 seems high quality and has 
been around for years.  Its just a single on/off rated at 450 amps continuous 
and UL marine. 

Jay



> On Jan 3, 2024, at 3:04 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches & Happy New Year!
> 
> I have a client who wants to switch between two 24v 800 a/h battery banks. I 
> know this isn’t a recommended strategy and have advised him accordingly but 
> he still insists this is a method he wants to use in his off-grid system. 
> None of the A/B type switches I look at are really designed for regular use 
> or that high an amp requirement. Is there a commercial product anyone has 
> used that might do the job?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Ron
> 
> Best Regards,
> Ron Young
> Solareagle.com 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA TL-22 insulation resistance error

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I think that using a megger etc to test the panels and wires is what I’d do before I yanked out  all the Wires. They are not that expensive anymore and maybe possible to rent one?JayOn Dec 13, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi All,I am curious to hear if anyone else has run into this:This is the system I posted about a little while ago that had the SolarWorld modules and all the module to module connectors were swollen and melted. One of the inverters was giving an insulation resistance error, and so after seeing the module connectors, I was sure that was the issue. We replaced every single module connector with new MC4's, and then the error came back!My next step was to swap in the junction box which strings go to which inverter to identify whether the issue was on the roof or somewhere between the roof jbox and the inverter. (the issue was isolated to only 1 of 4 strings previously). Turns out the same inverter is faulting, which leads me to believe that there may be an issue with the wires in the DC conduit. Maybe they got damaged by a rough wire pull at the initial installation 7 years ago, and its finally degraded enough to cause a problem. The fault is intermittent, only showing up once every couple weeks or so, so it is difficult to catch it while the fault is active. But my question is, could there also be something wrong with the inverter itself? After spending a lot of time on this one, ideally, I would know that replacing the DC wires will fix it. So I am curious if people have done this, to still find that the issue was something internal to the inverter.Thanks!-Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he | him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 V DC temp sensing relay

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake

Try this one. I get a lot of equipment from supply house. 

Since you need on with temp rise it’s an AC type. 
This one will do 8 amps at 120v so a small amp dc fan won’t hurt the relay. 

Jay

https://www.supplyhouse.com/White-Rodgers-1609-101-Refrigeration-Temperature-Control-30-Degrees-F-To-90-Degrees-F-Range-5-Capillary?utm_source=google_ad_medium=shopping_neutral_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users_source=1

> On Dec 13, 2023, at 9:08 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
>  
> Does anyone know of a 48 VDC temperature sensing relay? I need to use one to 
> control a fan in a 48 V battery bank, to bring in cold air when the bank gets 
> too hot from the wood heating system in the house.
>  
> The relay needs to operate with the 48 VDC power supply and disconnect a 
> small current with 48 VDC contacts.
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
> 
> --
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3s with legacy FX inverters

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Agreed to all said. Numerous systems with mate 3/3s and every inverter and stacking is all fine. New hub 10:3 required. MX CC don’t appear on the mate 3/s. Few of my systems are on optics so can’t comment on that. JayOn Dec 12, 2023, at 1:15 PM, Roland Shackelford via RE-wrenches  wrote:We have numerous systems, with no programing or Mate display issues, however the oldest FX series wont display correctly on Optics RE and wont allow remote programability through Optics RE.Roland ShackelfordPresident / Owner NABCEP PVIP #091209-162O 808.775.7410 | M 808.938.9239 | 45-487 Lehua St Honokaa, HI 96727Power Solutions for Generations Renewable Energy Services, Inc." Where there is integrity, there will be trust. Where there is trust, there will be an atmosphere for success." - SadhguruOn Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 6:45 AM Foxfire Energy via RE-wrenches  wrote:






I think it depends on the firmware/age on the FX and the software revision on the Mate3s.. Talk to Chris at Outback if you can.


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Todd Cory via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 11:24 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: toddc...@finestplanet.com 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3s with legacy FX inverters
 


Wrenches,

I am receiving conflicting information about using a Mate 3s with legacy FX inverters. Has anyone done this and was the 3s able to function correctly?

Thanks,

Todd



Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.



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[RE-wrenches] Hydraulic KO tool

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’m wondering if anyone has recommendations for an inexpensive hydraulic KO 
tool. 

I have a project where I need to punch some 4” holes in gutter. 
I can’t get a jig saw or anything in there and a 4” hole saw bit is crazy 
expensive. 

There are many inexpensive hydraulic tools out there that should work for a 
holes. Just thought I’d check to see if anyone has any suggestions. 

Thx

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Interesting The high voltage disconnect is 58.4v. Reconnect is 54.4v. Maybe if the spike is fast enough the inverter trips off before the battery shuts off?JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 2:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jay:Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my assumption. However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance. The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery impedance besides what the actual cells are doing. JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.Fun times On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Friends: I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys. With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations. I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!). I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging. I have documented my research here.  There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have. By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday… William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery impedance besides what the actual cells are doing. JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.Fun times On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys. With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations. I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!). I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging. I have documented my research here.  There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have. By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday… William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these connectors work as they should. I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would keep dirt, salt air, moisture, etc  out until they are connected. As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if whoever built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not seated properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly or they were stored in a salt environment creating corrosion or something like that. I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps depending on the wire, pretty impressive JayOn Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this might be our only one.On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced, were the majority of these roof mounts?Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if that helped to minimize connector failure.ChristopherOn Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
Ray,
            Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground
  mount system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler
  air, fully engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with
  SW285's, not passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW
  just made up new connectors.  
            My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made
  up by the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs,
  pencils, chicken nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In
  20+ years of installing PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've
  only seen this happen 2-3 times.  Installing in the mountains we
  no doubt use ground mount much more often than most installs in
  urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector possibly more
  of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
  never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but
  still "contained" stage .
            Back when SW was first transitioning from one
  connector to another, I remember them saying they (I think it was
  UTX and MC or was it UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER
  mixed connectors despite their claim.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up
On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via
  RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors,
not the UTX.
  Ray
  
  On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic
wrote:
  
  

Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them,
sounds like about the right timeframe. 



  


  

  


  

  

  

  BREAKING:
SolarWorld recalls PV modules
with Amphenol connectors
  pv-magazine-usa.com

  

  

  

  

  
  
  
  
  Brian
  
On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray
  Walters via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:
  

  
  

  
  12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC
connectors might.  I just went back on a 7 yr old
Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC connector
(module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and
bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection. 
It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to
measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so
not an installation issue.  
  This was not one of our connectors made up in the
field, these were Solarworld factory connectors on both
sides, same model modules.  That also means no mismatch
of "MC4" connector type.  
  

Re: [RE-wrenches] Small Diesel generator recommendation off-grid

[jay via RE-wrenches]

It depends a lot on the what you want.
open chassis
sound enclosed
super quite
tier 4
prime/standby
built in 2 wire start
etc. 

MQ power make great units.
https://www.mqpower.com/whisperwatt.html 


jay





> On Nov 4, 2023, at 7:45 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a reliable diesel generator that starts well in the 
> 10-20kW range?
> 
> Thanks!
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

What is the triggering for utility charge? % or volts or time of day or?  I have seen this with offgrid generator use. It has to do with the rebulk volt setting being too low in relation to when the client started the generator. Their intial fix was to unhook the mate and plug it back in. That reset the internal counter and it would charge. We figured it was a bad mate. Tried new firmware, new mate no change. We connected it to optics and OB did figure it out. If the generator started above the rebulk volt it wouldn’t charge. If it was below rebulk voltage it would charge. The fix was to raise the rebulk voltage above whatever volts you might start charging at. JayOn Nov 1, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches  wrote:
It isn't in sell mode. The system is 2 or 3 years old, and has had this issue before. Outback couldn't figure it out, and then is started working normally. 
---
 


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional


On 2023-10-31 12:14, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Is the radian connected to grid sell?  
 
If so then I'd say yes the higher grid voltage is preventing connection. 
 
Jay

On Oct 31, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches  wrote:



Jay, 
It was a problem that surfaced before. Outback tech support was unable to figure it out. Then, the problem went away. Recently it showed up again. 
For the last couple of days it has been connecting normally. The voltage has been 250 VAC or lower. 
I know that most direct grid tie inverters can go to 264 V. I wondered if the Radian might be limiting voltage to protect loads. Just a theory based on the reading of 251 and higher when the inverter would not connect. 
Thanks,
Drake 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional


---
 


On 2023-10-30 20:37, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Drake I forgot to ask, but I'm thinking this is a new problem on an older system that was working normally?
 
Jay
 
 

On Oct 30, 2023, at 11:15 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:



I'm not familiar with Outback defaults but most inverters I've dealt with have a grid tolerance of 10% +/-  so 216 to 264VAC.
 
 


On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 6:57 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:


Hi Jay,
The inverter won't even connect to the grid. It stays in the state where it is sampling the grid, AC in light blinking. 
Is the default high voltage for the nominal 240 V 280? (IE 140 V X 2). 
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Drake 
 
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
---
 



 
On 2023-10-29 15:45, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Hi drake
 
The early mate 3 has a glitch which I think they changed in the 3s. 
 
You e got to set the rebulk volts above what you want it to charge at. 
 
IE if the battery volts don't get below the rebulk volts it won't charge. 
 
So if your shallow cycling the batteries it's common it won't get below the rebulk volts. If you're deep cycling it usually will with default settings 
 
The default high voltage window for ac input is default at 140v. 
 
Hope this helps
 
Jay
 
 
 
 

On Oct 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



My Radian GS 8048  intermittently will connect to the grid to charge batteries. The grid voltage seems to run high around here. Yesterday, it wouldn't connect. The grid voltage was at 251 V. Later it did connect. At that point the grid was at 246 V.
 
I am suspecting that the Radian has a voltage acceptance limit of 250 V. Is that true? Is it possible to open up the window?
 
If that isn't it, what could be the problem?
 
Thank you,
 
Drake 
 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

 

-- 
 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Question

[jay via RE-wrenches]

You could ask the wrenches bout how to make the window wider?

I don’t know

jay

> On Oct 31, 2023, at 10:14 AM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Is the radian connected to grid sell?  
> 
> If so then I’d say yes the higher grid voltage is preventing connection. 
> 
> Jay
> 
>> On Oct 31, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Jay,
>> 
>> It was a problem that surfaced before. Outback tech support was unable to 
>> figure it out. Then, the problem went away. Recently it showed up again.
>> 
>> For the last couple of days it has been connecting normally. The voltage has 
>> been 250 VAC or lower.
>> 
>> I know that most direct grid tie inverters can go to 264 V. I wondered if 
>> the Radian might be limiting voltage to protect loads. Just a theory based 
>> on the reading of 251 and higher when the inverter would not connect.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Drake
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Drake Chamberlin
>> 
>> Athens Electric LLC
>> 
>> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
>> 
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 2023-10-30 20:37, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> Drake I forgot to ask, but I'm thinking this is a new problem on an older 
>>> system that was working normally?
>>>  
>>> Jay
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 30, 2023, at 11:15 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not familiar with Outback defaults but most inverters I've dealt with 
>>>> have a grid tolerance of 10% +/-  so 216 to 264VAC.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 6:57 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>>>> >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jay,
>>>> 
>>>> The inverter won't even connect to the grid. It stays in the state where 
>>>> it is sampling the grid, AC in light blinking.
>>>> 
>>>> Is the default high voltage for the nominal 240 V 280? (IE 140 V X 2).
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Drake
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Drake Chamberlin
>>>> 
>>>> Athens Electric LLC
>>>> 
>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
>>>> 
>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> On 2023-10-29 15:45, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Hi drake
>>>>  
>>>> The early mate 3 has a glitch which I think they changed in the 3s. 
>>>>  
>>>> You e got to set the rebulk volts above what you want it to charge at. 
>>>>  
>>>> IE if the battery volts don't get below the rebulk volts it won't charge. 
>>>>  
>>>> So if your shallow cycling the batteries it's common it won't get below 
>>>> the rebulk volts. If you're deep cycling it usually will with default 
>>>> settings 
>>>>  
>>>> The default high voltage window for ac input is default at 140v. 
>>>>  
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>  
>>>> Jay
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>>>> >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My Radian GS 8048 intermittently will connect to the grid to charge 
>>>> batteries. The grid voltage seems to run high around here. Yesterday, it 
>>>> wouldn't connect. The grid voltage was at 251 V. Later it did connect. At 
>>>> that point the grid was at 246 V.
>>>>  
>>>> I am suspecting that the Radian has a voltage acceptance limit of 250 V. 
>>>> Is that true? Is it possible to open up the window?
>>>>  
>>>> If that isn't it, what could be the problem?
>>>>  
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>  
>>>> Drake
>>>>  
>>>> Drake Chamberlin
>>>> 
>>>> Athens Electric LLC
>>>> 
>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
>>>> 
>>>> NABC

Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Is the radian connected to grid sell?  If so then I’d say yes the higher grid voltage is preventing connection. JayOn Oct 31, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Jay, 
It was a problem that surfaced before. Outback tech support was unable to figure it out. Then, the problem went away. Recently it showed up again. 
For the last couple of days it has been connecting normally. The voltage has been 250 VAC or lower. 
I know that most direct grid tie inverters can go to 264 V. I wondered if the Radian might be limiting voltage to protect loads. Just a theory based on the reading of 251 and higher when the inverter would not connect. 
Thanks,
Drake 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional


---
 


On 2023-10-30 20:37, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Drake I forgot to ask, but I'm thinking this is a new problem on an older system that was working normally?
 
Jay
 
 

On Oct 30, 2023, at 11:15 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:



I'm not familiar with Outback defaults but most inverters I've dealt with have a grid tolerance of 10% +/-  so 216 to 264VAC.
 
 


On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 6:57 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:


Hi Jay,
The inverter won't even connect to the grid. It stays in the state where it is sampling the grid, AC in light blinking. 
Is the default high voltage for the nominal 240 V 280? (IE 140 V X 2). 
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Drake 
 
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
---
 



 
On 2023-10-29 15:45, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Hi drake
 
The early mate 3 has a glitch which I think they changed in the 3s. 
 
You e got to set the rebulk volts above what you want it to charge at. 
 
IE if the battery volts don't get below the rebulk volts it won't charge. 
 
So if your shallow cycling the batteries it's common it won't get below the rebulk volts. If you're deep cycling it usually will with default settings 
 
The default high voltage window for ac input is default at 140v. 
 
Hope this helps
 
Jay
 
 
 
 

On Oct 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



My Radian GS 8048  intermittently will connect to the grid to charge batteries. The grid voltage seems to run high around here. Yesterday, it wouldn't connect. The grid voltage was at 251 V. Later it did connect. At that point the grid was at 246 V.
 
I am suspecting that the Radian has a voltage acceptance limit of 250 V. Is that true? Is it possible to open up the window?
 
If that isn't it, what could be the problem?
 
Thank you,
 
Drake 
 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

 

-- 
 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Drake I forgot to ask, but I’m thinking this is a new problem on an older system that was working normally?JayOn Oct 30, 2023, at 11:15 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:I’m not familiar with Outback defaults but most inverters I’ve dealt with have a grid tolerance of 10% +/-  so 216 to 264VAC.On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 6:57 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Hi Jay,
The inverter won't even connect to the grid. It stays in the state where it is sampling the grid, AC in light blinking. 
Is the default high voltage for the nominal 240 V 280? (IE 140 V X 2). 

Thanks for your help.

Drake 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
---
 


On 2023-10-29 15:45, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:



 
Hi drake
 
The early mate 3 has a glitch which I think they changed in the 3s. 
 
You e got to set the rebulk volts above what you want it to charge at. 
 
IE if the battery volts don't get below the rebulk volts it won't charge. 
 
So if your shallow cycling the batteries it's common it won't get below the rebulk volts. If you're deep cycling it usually will with default settings 
 
The default high voltage window for ac input is default at 140v. 
 
Hope this helps
 
Jay
 
 
 
 

On Oct 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



My Radian GS 8048  intermittently will connect to the grid to charge batteries. The grid voltage seems to run high around here. Yesterday, it wouldn't connect. The grid voltage was at 251 V. Later it did connect. At that point the grid was at 246 V.
 
I am suspecting that the Radian has a voltage acceptance limit of 250 V. Is that true? Is it possible to open up the window?
 
If that isn't it, what could be the problem?
 
Thank you,
 
Drake 
 

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi drake

The early mate 3 has a glitch which I think they changed in the 3s. 

You e got to set the rebulk volts above what you want it to charge at. 

IE if the battery volts don’t get below the rebulk volts it won’t charge. 

So if your shallow cycling the batteries it’s common it won’t get below the 
rebulk volts. If you’re deep cycling it usually will with default settings 

The default high voltage window for ac input is default at 140v. 

Hope this helps

Jay





> On Oct 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> My Radian GS 8048 intermittently will connect to the grid to charge 
> batteries. The grid voltage seems to run high around here. Yesterday, it 
> wouldn't connect. The grid voltage was at 251 V. Later it did connect. At 
> that point the grid was at 246 V.
>  
> I am suspecting that the Radian has a voltage acceptance limit of 250 V. Is 
> that true? Is it possible to open up the window?
>  
> If that isn't it, what could be the problem?
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’m going to both agree and disagree Agree The older inverters ( Schneider, Outback, etc) your drawing is correct. Disagree For many new inverters ( sol ark, ev4, fortress) they bring ac coupling into the inverter directly. Usually on the generator input and not in the backup loads panel. And I will also disagree about the statement that these inverters are not designed for ac coupling. Agreed that the earlier non rule 21 compliant versions didn’t have any internal control and required external relay control to prevent overcharge. Newer versions of Schneider, OB, have  frequently shift which works with newer gt inverters to address the ac coupling overcharge concerns. While creating potential new issues for loads with up to 64 hz. JayOn Oct 28, 2023, at 2:15 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am starting to get the impression that there is a diversion on the understanding of the definition of AC coupling within the industry.  I think this definition needs to be clarified. Below is a diagram of what I understand is a DC coupled system (I hope these diagrams come through):  A battery inverter that receives AC power into an AC input port is not AC coupled. Here is an AC-coupled system:  What makes AC-Coupled systems unique are the problems presented by sending power backwards through a battery inverter.  This is not how battery inverters were originally designed to operate.  These systems require careful consideration to avoid battery overcharging. Do we have consensus on this definition? William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aging Batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

I have had a much different experience with older batteries.

1. check the SG and volts under load like at night.  And see if there are any 
weak ones.  Since you have 2v cells you can afford to lose a few.  

2. If they all check out more or less equal, and i’m guessing that they are 
using lots of water, then I lower the charge volts, and/or absorb time.  
Because the internal chemistry is dying and in my experience going higher volts 
( unless its a sulphation issue) just creates more heat, and hydrogen gas with 
greater risk of issues, and more water use and mess.  Its not going to fix the 
chemistry. 

3. lower the LBCO all the way down and if using AGS then lower the volts on 
that to and also reduce the run time/abosrb time.  


Good luck,

Jay




> On Oct 27, 2023, at 9:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Will, 
> 
> At the risk of being overly simplistic and obvious, have you kept good 
> specific gravity records over the years? Are they showing lowered or uneven 
> readings?  I've often been able to get some more life out of flooded 
> batteries by raising the charge and equalize voltages, particularly if these 
> are Rolls 2- volts. I've been known to run the bulk charge as high as 31 
> sometimes and equalize up to 32 with longer run times (2.5 - 3 hours) for off 
> grid, assuming that there aren't any particularly weak cells.  
> 
> You can also do a simple load test on each individual battery and if you find 
> a very weak or dead one, taking it out of the string often improves capacity 
> (if you've already tried recovering it through extra charging). Of course, 
> you would would need to adjust the inverter and CC settings appropriately. 
> 
> Which model of 2-volts are these? 
> 
> Again, sorry if this is all too obvious for you.  Just getting back to basics.
> 
> Good luck, 
> Howie
> 
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 11:27 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Hi Will,
> 
> I'd keep inching the start voltage down and see if it helps.  Sometimes old 
> batteries just operate at a lower voltage and will sag more under load but 
> they will still carry the load OK
> 
> Of course you can:
> 1.  Do all of your high power stuff when the sun is out.
> 2.  Disable the generator start at night and see where the voltage goes by 
> morning, perhaps a load kicks on and the voltage is sagging enough to kick on 
> the generator from voltage.  It helps if you can plot the voltage over night 
> to see what is happening.  (Victron battery monitors are really cool for 
> this).
> 3.  Load starting can help limit overall run time.
> 
> Sometimes you can do inventive things with Quiet time that will limit 
> generator starting.  Not sure what inverter system you have.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:03 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
>  
> 
> I installed my off-grid system in 2008. It’s 24 V using 2 V industrial FLA 
> batteries. As you can imagine after 15 years the capacity of my battery bank 
> is significantly less than it used to be.
> 
>  
> 
> For logistic reasons, I won’t be able to replace them till around June of 
> next year, but it’s not even into winter yet and my generator is already 
> running every day.
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone have any tips on how to get through the winter on these batteries 
> while minimizing generator run time? I’ve got two FM80’s with 3.8 kW of PV, 
> two VFX3524 inverters, and a Kohler RES12 generator. I haven’t changed any 
> settings since I installed the system.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Will
> 
> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If 
> you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to 
> the sender and delete this message.
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> 
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian Generator Charging

[jay via RE-wrenches]

What I don’t understand is that the inverter was limiting amps while the 
generator was not.  
If the generator wasn’t able to produce the power, then it would have had the 
usual issues which causes the inverter to drop it and then reconnect. 
But that wasn’t happening so it appears the generator is doing fine. 

Its 3% per 1000, and the variables of density altitude are:  temperature, 
humidity, air pressure, elevation.  

I don’t understand why the generator support would allow for higher amps as 
well?

jay 

> On Oct 27, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> You have had many good suggestions but note you are on border line power, at 
> 2200 teet your power is down 10% note gen's are 80% of name plate, and you 
> are asking for 7.2 kW from a Genny that with atmospheric correction is 7.2 kW
> 
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:27 AM Amos Post via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Changing the Gen Input mode to Support did the trick!  Thanks for the advice! 
> 
> 
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com 
> Facebook 
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2023, at 9:16 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> This may be far fetched but I have encountered good voltage & low amperage = 
>> no amperage from solar arrays that baffled me on T/S on others systems & 
>> ultimately: 
>> We had voltage & low output amperage to no amperage.
>> Turns out there was a junction box that had been forgotten about in the 
>> crawl space with never tightened split bolts that were crispy black from 
>> arcing.
>> There was enough contact for voltage readings & not enough for any amps to 
>> flow.
>> Double check all connections?
>>  
>> ___
>> Dana Orzel  c- 2087217003   e – d...@solarwork.com 
>> 
>>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid, Cloudy Days, Solar Tilt Question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi BradOut of curiosity, what is the actual difference between the two on those cloudy days. ThxJayOn Oct 25, 2023, at 5:04 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches  wrote:I used to have both an array at a 60° tilt and one at 14° tilt. In the winter the high tilt array did better on sunny days, and on cloudy days the shallow array did better. They were different modules and different sized arrays, so without more analysis than I did, it would be hard to tell which is better through the winter, but it looked like they were similar in overall output. However, once March rolled around the steeper array started to do much better (more sun), and by summer the shallow array did much better. I'm at 47° N and I think if I had a choice of any tilt, but without adjustability, I'd probably set it at latitude or therabouts. If you're west of the mountains you're probably going to need another source of power anyway. I say that, but judging from the modelling I did of the output of my micro-inverter system it might just be possible to get through the winter with an array 500% overisized. And that with only 2 or 3 days of battery autonomy. This was surprising to me. Do keep in mind that an array with snow on it has 0 output.  Brad BassettOn Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 3:47 PM Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches  wrote:


	
	
	
	


Hi All!We
don't do a lot of pure off-grid systems and I recently ran across
something I wanted to run by folks with more experience in this area:
 Optimal array tilt for our very cloudy PNW winters!

My
understanding has always been that latitude plus 10-15 degrees was
the best tilt to address our winter energy shortage.  However a paper
I recently read (1), makes a compelling case for a much shallower
tilt in situations where the cloud cover is so heavy that "diffuse"
solar radiation is all that makes it through.  They indicate that
under those conditions a horizontal array will produce significantly
more energy than even a two-axis tracker!

Given
that the challenge in our off-grid setups always seems to be making
it through the really cloudy stretches, and that there is usually enough energy the rest of the time, should we be installing
off-grid arrays at a shallower angle?

Anyone
tried this?



Kirk
Baileyk...@abundantsolar.com
www.abundantsolar.com



(1)
 Kelly, N.A., Gibson, T.L, 2011, Increasing the solar photovoltaic
energy capture on sunny and cloudy days.  Solar Energy 85, 111-125.





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian Generator Charging

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I would reset to factory settings and start again. JayOn Oct 25, 2023, at 5:59 PM, integrityenergy101 via RE-wrenches  wrote:Charger Limit is also set to 30 amps. We tried raising the total AC input limit to max and that may have helped increase the chargeby 200-300watts up to 4.8kw but thats it. By my math we should be able to see about 6KW+/- of charging power. We are using Generator input mode I  believe.  We will try switching to Support mode and see if that helps.  By the way batteries are 8- Simpliphi 3.8.    Sent from my Galaxy Original message From: Jay via RE-wrenches  Date: 10/25/23  4:43 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: RE-wrenches  Cc: Jay  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian Generator Charging What is the charger ac limit set to?JayOn Oct 25, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi Amos,What input mode are you using?Try switching to "support" mode and see if the charging current increases. On Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 1:24 PM Amos Post via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hello wrenches,We just installed an GS8048a Radian build with Mate 3SL controller (no Optics).  We are having some with charging from the generator, as the generator charging seems to be limited to about 4500Watts +/- (20amps AC) when charging through the Radian.  It is a Kohler 8.5RES generator and we have the AC input limit set to 30amps and the Gen input set to 30amps.  The house load is only about 200Watts when we are charging.  The system is at 2200ft of elevation, but I don’t know if that makes enough of a difference.The Gen output voltage seems pretty good and holds around 234V-236V while charging.Any thoughts as to why it may be limiting would be appreciated.Thanks,Amos
       Amos Post   Integrity Energy  W 802.763.7023   C 802.291.2188    ienergyVT.com        Facebook

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[RE-wrenches] ITC and loans

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all. 

Any quick answers about how the ITC tax credit deals with loans on a solar 
system?

Thanks

Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian Generator Charging

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

What is the charger ac limit set to?JayOn Oct 25, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi Amos,What input mode are you using?Try switching to "support" mode and see if the charging current increases. On Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 1:24 PM Amos Post via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello wrenches,We just installed an GS8048a Radian build with Mate 3SL controller (no Optics).  We are having some with charging from the generator, as the generator charging seems to be limited to about 4500Watts +/- (20amps AC) when charging through the Radian.  It is a Kohler 8.5RES generator and we have the AC input limit set to 30amps and the Gen input set to 30amps.  The house load is only about 200Watts when we are charging.  The system is at 2200ft of elevation, but I don’t know if that makes enough of a difference.The Gen output voltage seems pretty good and holds around 234V-236V while charging.Any thoughts as to why it may be limiting would be appreciated.Thanks,Amos
       Amos Post   Integrity Energy  W 802.763.7023   C 802.291.2188    ienergyVT.com        Facebook

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Need a hand with Sunny Island/Sunny boy AC couple

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi williamCan you tell us which SI/SB you have?JayOn Oct 21, 2023, at 5:49 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends:I’m kinda stuck on a project setting up a SI/SB AC coupled system off grid. When the SB inverters ramp up the battery voltage jumps to 69 pretty quickly and the system shuts off. I checked the mini-grid frequency and it does ramp up to about 62+ but apparently not soon enough to curtail charging. I shut off the SBs for now and we can rely on generator. Any advice via email or a phone call would be appreciated.  SMA can be less than helpful, especially for systems with lithium batteries. Thanks in advance. William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.com
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I tell my clients to wash your panels like you’d wash your car. Similar soaps if needed to remove pollen or harder to remove things and softer bristle brushes help. Doing it during the heat of the day means a larger chance of mineral deposits vs cooler times depending on your water. Myself I don’t think I’ve cleaned any of my panels in many years. Of course you might live in a place that it’s needed because of a larger drop off in performance. As to the shock part I agree it’s a thing. With rain it never starts as much volume you can do with a hose. Even heavy showers build up which allows the panel to cool over a longer period of time vs blasting it with a hose. My 2 cents. JayOn Oct 20, 2023, at 4:32 PM, August Goers via RE-wrenches  wrote:I now live in a more rural part of California and the dust buildup and bird droppings on my modules cuts energy production down by about 5% during the dry months. I imagine that professional cleaning services would still cost more than the recouped energy production, especially since the dirt builds back up in just a couple of weeks. Anyway, I've had good luck spraying down my array with water and then using a long squeegee similar to but larger than the type they have at gas stations. The sponge side is helpful to scrub the buildup off and the squeegee side helps avoid water spots. Typically no cleanser is necessary, although a mild car wash mix can help if there is sooty or oily buildup.It is satisfying to see clean panels, even if it isn't recommended for most homeowners :)August

 On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:13 PM Kent via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  
  
Jason,
This is the way thermal shock was explained to me. Thermal shock
  creates micro fractures in the glass. PV modules have tough
  tempered glass so one thermal shock event, or a few dozen events,
  is unlikely to cause a module to fracture; but eventually the
  glass gets to the last straw when the micro fractures connect to
  each other and the whole pane breaks up. You can't do much about
  sun showers but you can certainly avoid spraying the hose on hot
  glass.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar 


On 10/20/2023 1:47 PM, Jason Szumlanski
  via RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely
  starts downpouring here when it's blazing hot out (sun
  showers) and the rain is way cooler than ground water in
  summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is
  going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it
  rains! 
  
  
  I replied privately to Dana, but for the
benefit of the group, it takes a heavy soiling to make any
appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning
solar panels. Certainly it would not be worth paying someone
to do it. Other climates may have different results. My
suggestion would be to test first. Module level power
electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.
  
  
  Jason
  
  
  
  
  
On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21
  PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:


  Hi Dana, 


See attached from REC. I would imagine these
  guidelines would apply to all modules.
Cheers,
Dave
  
  
  
On Fri, Oct 20, 2023
  at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
  wrote:


  

  
Hey ally ‘all,
 
Ok bad solar
installer! 7 years & I have never
cleaned my modules & live on a dirt
road. Yeah rain does a good job with the
dust but there is a film mostly on the
edges.
 
What does everyone
do for cleaning?
 
My array is 16’+
tall on a hill side. I have a pressure
washer & was going to pick up a large
sponge type mop & mount it on a painters
extension pole. 
 
Good Biodegradable
cleaning solutions?
 

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

[jay via RE-wrenches]

In my buddies case, most definitely XW Pro

jay

> On Oct 13, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> It must be an XW+ that died. The XW pro field circuit validation testing beta 
> was complete in early 2019.
> 
> That XWP is still working fine for me. Not many failures unless the installer 
> did not use surge protection.
> If it was an XWP and you filled out the 10 year warranty, they might have 
> your back still.
> 
> If you troubleshoot xw and find it is the power bridge PCB, I see them 
> available on Ebay.
> Schneider has not provided parts for out of warranty devices for 10 years now.
> 
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060
> 
> 
> On 2023-10-13 7:54 am, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
>> I had a 7 year-old one die 1.5 months ago. 
>> F41 APS Under Voltage. 
>> No ugly sounds. Just no power. 
>> I don't have many out there but this is the first. 
>>  
>> 
>> Aloha,
>> 
>> Lou Russo
>> (808) 345 6762
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 4:47 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Funny you should say that. One that I just installed is acting weird and 
>> sounds horrible. Waited an hour on the phone for tech support to no avail. 
>> Will be a really long drive back to sort things out. Never had an XW with 
>> issues before.
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 9:29 PM Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Curious if anyone else is dealing with failed Schnieder XW PRO6848's this 
>> year? In recent months I've had 2 DOA (one producing 180/360VAC; one charger 
>> had this nasty building THD and ugly noise until it tripped out), and 2 fail 
>> after few weeks in service. One charger just failed, and another have yet to 
>> take the long drive to figure out but it's gone dark.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I've sold, serviced, and installed 100's of XW's starting with Beta 001 and 
>> can't think of any that just failed like of recent. Unplanned return service 
>> calls are costly as we all know. Tech support has been wildly inconsistent 
>> and presently unresponsive.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kevin Pegg
>> 
>> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
>> 
>> Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ___
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>>  
>> -- 
>>  
>> Michael Morningstar
>>  
>> Morningstar Electric
>> PO Box 1494
>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>> 530-921-0560
>> mjmornings...@gmail.com 
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro failures

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I have a buddy that has had two different  stacked pairs with issues. It took months of back and forth on the one which they did replace them however one of the inverters sent from Schneider was a euro 230/50hz. Taking another trip and more delay. And same guy, another project with monitoring etc they refused to do anything and the client had the money to just replace them with another brand, and it’s been working fine ever since. Not a good situation JayOn Oct 13, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches  wrote:I had a 7 year-old one die 1.5 months ago. F41 APS Under Voltage. No ugly sounds. Just no power. I don't have many out there but this is the first. Aloha,Lou Russo(808) 345 6762On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 4:47 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches  wrote:Funny you should say that. One that I just installed is acting weird and sounds horrible. Waited an hour on the phone for tech support to no avail. Will be a really long drive back to sort things out. Never had an XW with issues before.On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 9:29 PM Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches  wrote:







Hello Wrenches, 
 
Curious if anyone else is dealing with failed Schnieder XW PRO6848’s this year? In recent months I’ve had 2 DOA (one producing 180/360VAC; one charger had this nasty building THD and ugly noise until it tripped out), and 2 fail after few
 weeks in service. One charger just failed, and another have yet to take the long drive to figure out but it’s gone dark.

 
I’ve sold, serviced, and installed 100’s of XW’s starting with Beta 001 and can’t think of any that just failed like of recent. Unplanned return service calls are costly as we all know. Tech support has been wildly inconsistent and presently
 unresponsive. 
 
Thanks, 
 
Kevin Pegg
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.

Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
 
 



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Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmornings...@gmail.com
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___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Nuance ground racking

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Does anyone have a link or picture of the ground anchor in question? I couldn’t find one. ThxJayOn Oct 12, 2023, at 7:07 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jeff, Thanks for the notes and things to look for from the field. I was not aware that there are two versions of their PowerJack out there, and I'll make sure to get the newer one.Kienan, I'm glad you have had luck with the cordless drill. I am leaning towards that one, and it does have more rated power than some of the corded drills out there. I think the concern will be if the batteries will last long enough for what we need. Although if I end up with 3 batteries and two chargers, hopefully we will not have to wait for batteries to charge.Cheers,DaveOn Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 6:10 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:On that subject, what bits are people using to drill holes through block/concrete (for 1" - 2" conduit)? We have been using some dry diamond coring bits we buy online, but they don't seem to last. We have had them break off at the weld. Wet coring seems overkill for the relatively few holes we need to make.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 10:49 PM Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches  wrote:




I own the Dewalt 2 inch 60V rotary hammer you linked and it is totally awesome. You’ll be blown away by it. It’s totally worth it.


You might want to make sure to just use the huge 12ah batteries that it comes with… might be a lot of power demand fire smaller 60V batteries… but I regularly use mine with the smaller batteries and I’ve never had a problem. 


I mostly use it for drilling 2 inch holes in 8” concrete walls for bringing conduit into basements and crawl spaces. It goes through amazingly easily. Everyone who has tried mine has been totally blown away… probably about 8 professionals and contractors.

Thanks,
Kienan



Green-Go Solar Wholesale Distribution LLC

kienan@dist.solar

(801) 631-5584(Cell)

www.distribution.solar


On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:33 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches  wrote:





Hi all, 


I am going to try out the Nuance OSPREY PowerRack as a ground mount option that does not require an excavator. I am wondering two things about it:


1. Does anyone have experience with this, and do you like it?


2. What drill do you use for the drive rod? 

It seems like the Milwaukee 2" SDS max drill is the standard - https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/5342-21
I am wondering if it is possible to use a cordless drill though. DeWalt makes both a cordless and corded version that claim to have the same impact energy as each other, although both are less than the Milwaukee Drill. Milwaukee has 19.9 ft-lbs of energy
 and the DeWalt ones have 19.4 Joules, which is 14.3 ft-lbs of energy.
Cordless Kit - https://www.dewalt.com/product/dch773y2/60v-max-2-brushless-cordless-sds-max-combination-rotary-hammer-kit
Corded Kit - https://www.dewalt.com/product/d25773k/2-sds-max-rotary-hammer


The cordless drill is tempting because I already have a bunch of DeWalt equipment, and it would be nice to avoid needing a generator or some very long extension cords.


Thanks!
-Dave


-- 





















Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar




p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com
c: (607) 270-0370













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-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he | him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOK Batteries

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Buy another SOK battery so that doesn’t happen. Or maybe happens lessJayOn Oct 11, 2023, at 5:55 PM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello brain trust,Anyone have experience with SOK lithiums?  Here's my issue.  Client has a tiny home and bought their system online (I know, run away...).  Whenever they start a larger load (power tool, hair dryer) it pulls too much current and causes the BMS to shut down the battery output.  Not necessarily a huge issue, but I cannot get the app (ABC-BMS) to reset the batteries.  I log in with the password and it gives me the reset option, but it will not allow me to click OK.  Hooking up an external battery charger has been my only successful reset solution.Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks,KrisShine On!Kris SchmidLegacy Solar, LLC137 West 1st AvenueLuck, WI 54853www.legacysolar.com715-653-4295NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalLicensed Wisconsin Master ElectricianBSEE
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Well pump with Sol-Ark

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’d look at a 3 phase pump with vfd/soft start control and eliminate the start 
surge. 

Jay



> On Oct 11, 2023, at 8:12 AM, frenergy via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm looking for opinions and/or real world experience on recommendation for 
> the largest 240V submersible well pump the Sol-Ark 12KW inverter can 
> start/run.  Assume 500 watt load prior to starting the pump, static level of 
> water in well is 75 feet, system psi when it starts is 40.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
> CA Lic 874049
> Solar powered since 1982
> 
> 
> -- 
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