Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Man that's beautiful! I have to admit I'd never heard that before. Cool! You gettin' all Cornel West up in this joint! - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 11:20:17 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Keith, to quote Homer: "There is nothing nobler or more admirable than when two people who see eye to eye keep house as man and wife, confounding their enemies and delighting their friends." ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > Ha, trust me, my wife doesn't hide her opinions. In fact she was the one who > asked me to rent "Catwoman" because of the things I've said. She *wanted* to > like the film. She wanted to support Berry having fun with the role. She > thought it'd be a fun romp in which we could laugh at the goofy/sexualized > portrayal. My wife loves to cheer for actresses who "do their thing", > especially Black ones. But it was so bad she just shook her head... > > - Original Message - > From: "Kelwyn" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:15:10 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > > > And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this > > discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she > > said.>> > > Well, Keith, if she admitted it she wouldn't be a "closet" fan. She'd be out > here in the open with the rest of us "Cat" lovers. > > ~rave! >
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What do you think of my point that the show might do better now, just a few years later, in the age of Obama, Hillary, and Palin? Think it would have found steadier legs--assuming Bocho hadn't been brought in, of course? - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:55:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem You are right. I have had enough of Bochco. It's not that he is bad, but it is the same thing over and over with a new setting and characters. I cannot even bring myself to watch his TNT legal show even though it has a great cast. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:10 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Add to what Keith said the fact that the show's creator, Rob Lurie, was dethroned as Executive Producer (allegedly because he was overwhelmed as a "rookie" show runner and having trouble delivering shows on time - even though Lurie had run shows before) and replaced by Steven Bochco - who proceeded to Bochco up the show - which is exactly what ABC wanted but the last thing fans of the show wanted. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > If I remember correctly, the ratings came out really high, then they fell > off. I think this was one of those shows where only a few shows were ordered > up front, which didn't help. I believe it was pre-empted and moved a couple > of times, which didn't help. And, i believe the new trend of micro-analyzing > viewer numbers hurt it. > Remember the days when new series got a whole *season* to succeed or fail? > When a show got 26 or 28 eps in a season, instead of maybe 4 - 6 as a trial > run? When ratings where averaged for an entire season, not broken down into > this new method where a show's rating's from the first to second half of one > airing are measured?! > That's what killed this show. Yeah, the ratings dipped, but with some > committment it could have found its legs. About 19 total eps were aired, but > once the ratings dipped, the network was obviously skittish about it. We've > discussed this time and time again, but think of all the great shows that > we'd never have had if networks had cancelled them after bad ratings in the > first few weeks. > > As an aside, I wonder if the show would do better now, just a few years > later? I note that Davis' character only became President because she was the > Veep and rose to office after the (male) President died. I seem to remember > some of the politicians--men--expecting her to step down. As late as 2005, it > was seen as a long shot that a woman could ascend to the White House just by > being elected, or garner respect if she did. Then came Hillary, Obama, and > Palin. Now, the thought of a woman or a person of color in the White House > isn't a fantasy (I contend, despite the way some women lost their minds in > rage at Obama defeating Clinton, that his success opens the doors for women > as well as men of color, and I don't know if the reverse would have been > true). > Now we're in a new world, a world where not only can we seriously consider a > female President, but some actually consider giving it to a dangerous, > idiotic waste like Palin. That's progress, I guess, but I think now the show > would do a bit better. > > - Original Message - > From: "Tracey de Morsella" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:42:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > You are bringing back memories and making me cry. I lived in Mexico at the > time, but had visited for two weeks during the premier. I thought it was a > hit when I left. What did ABC do to take it down? > > > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Keith Johnson > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:50 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > I was delighted to see Kyle Secor--Bayliss from the fantastic series > "Homicide"--in the role as Davis' husband. > Another underrated, underused actor... > > - Original Message - > From: "Kelwyn" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroup
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I guess that you can say that we suffer from the success of others. He created the whole modern cop show feel. So we see his style no matter what show we look at. Did anyone see the scifi cop show he did? It was called NYPD 2069. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0341174/ On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Tracey de Morsella < tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com> wrote: > You are right. I have had enough of Bochco. It's not that he is bad, but > it is the same thing over and over with a new setting and characters. I > cannot even bring myself to watch his TNT legal show even though it has a > great cast. > > -Original Message- > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kelwyn > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:10 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > Add to what Keith said the fact that the show's creator, Rob Lurie, was > dethroned as Executive Producer (allegedly because he was overwhelmed as a > "rookie" show runner and having trouble delivering shows on time - even > though Lurie had run shows before) and replaced by Steven Bochco - who > proceeded to Bochco up the show - which is exactly what ABC wanted but the > last thing fans of the show wanted. > > ~(no)rave! > Bringing diversity to perversity for 9 years! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
You are right. I have had enough of Bochco. It's not that he is bad, but it is the same thing over and over with a new setting and characters. I cannot even bring myself to watch his TNT legal show even though it has a great cast. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:10 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Add to what Keith said the fact that the show's creator, Rob Lurie, was dethroned as Executive Producer (allegedly because he was overwhelmed as a "rookie" show runner and having trouble delivering shows on time - even though Lurie had run shows before) and replaced by Steven Bochco - who proceeded to Bochco up the show - which is exactly what ABC wanted but the last thing fans of the show wanted. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote: > > If I remember correctly, the ratings came out really high, then they fell > off. I think this was one of those shows where only a few shows were ordered > up front, which didn't help. I believe it was pre-empted and moved a couple > of times, which didn't help. And, i believe the new trend of micro-analyzing > viewer numbers hurt it. > Remember the days when new series got a whole *season* to succeed or fail? > When a show got 26 or 28 eps in a season, instead of maybe 4 - 6 as a trial > run? When ratings where averaged for an entire season, not broken down into > this new method where a show's rating's from the first to second half of one > airing are measured?! > That's what killed this show. Yeah, the ratings dipped, but with some > committment it could have found its legs. About 19 total eps were aired, but > once the ratings dipped, the network was obviously skittish about it. We've > discussed this time and time again, but think of all the great shows that > we'd never have had if networks had cancelled them after bad ratings in the > first few weeks. > > As an aside, I wonder if the show would do better now, just a few years > later? I note that Davis' character only became President because she was the > Veep and rose to office after the (male) President died. I seem to remember > some of the politicians--men--expecting her to step down. As late as 2005, it > was seen as a long shot that a woman could ascend to the White House just by > being elected, or garner respect if she did. Then came Hillary, Obama, and > Palin. Now, the thought of a woman or a person of color in the White House > isn't a fantasy (I contend, despite the way some women lost their minds in > rage at Obama defeating Clinton, that his success opens the doors for women > as well as men of color, and I don't know if the reverse would have been > true). > Now we're in a new world, a world where not only can we seriously consider a > female President, but some actually consider giving it to a dangerous, > idiotic waste like Palin. That's progress, I guess, but I think now the show > would do a bit better. > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Tracey de Morsella" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:42:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > You are bringing back memories and making me cry. I lived in Mexico at the > time, but had visited for two weeks during the premier. I thought it was a > hit when I left. What did ABC do to take it down? > > > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Keith Johnson > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:50 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > I was delighted to see Kyle Secor--Bayliss from the fantastic series > "Homicide"--in the role as Davis' husband. > Another underrated, underused actor... > > - Original Message - > From: "Kelwyn" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:44:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > I loved "Commander in Chief." I also think it is criminal how ABC mishandled > it - firing the creator and original producer - and let it die. Harry Lennix > was excellent as her chief of staff. > > ~(no)rave! > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Martin Baxter w
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I agree. I think that she never created a sense of play with her acting to branch out and try different types of characters or people. Just sort of the same types of people over and over again. Its like listening to the same song over and over again being sung by different people. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > I think Berry isn't a good actress, but an average one. She only seems able > to be convincing when she plays extremes: a drug addict, a down-and-out > woman who ends up having sex with a bigot, a BAP. But when she's called upon > to do nuance or subtlety, she just seems to be trying. You can all but see > her lips moving as she recites her lines before speaking them. I think she's > too aware of being on screen. Phyllis and I saw her in that supposed sexy > thriller last year (the name escapes me but Giovanni Ribisi and Bruce Willis > were her co-stars). We just never bought her in the role. It wasn't just > that it was a silly movie, Berry just didn't hold our attention, and when > she was called upon to act angry or something, we actually laughed. Only > when her character displayed some...weird traits...did she stop appearing to > be acting. Ted Danson once said "Acting is the art of pretending to be > someone else while pretending you're not pretending". > > I don't think Berry's too good at that pretending. She seems to be too > nervous, too self-conscious. It's as if she's always on stage, always trying > to convey an image, trying to gauge what people think about her, instead of > just being natural. It's hard for me to describe too, but there's a lack of > a sense of self, a lack of self-composure. I've felt that every time I've > seen her in interviews, and it translates to her acting. > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Tracey de Morsella" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:33:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > The movie, is horrible, but I love Catwoman. It’s not something I watch > over and over. I have seen long kiss goodnight, strange days, kill bill 2 > and Batman II with Michele Pfieffer numerous times over the years. > > > > I still liked her tacky costume though > > > > Regarding Berry, I liked her in those comedies she did when she was young. > I don’t hate her, I think she is pretty, I admire her accomplishments, but > it does not translate to any of the films I see her in. She was okay in > swordfish fish, but the best part of her character did not come out until > the last 10 minutes of the movie. Gothika was okay, but I could take it or > leave it. Catwoman was so poorly produced that I cannot blame her. > Everybody looked bad in that. But to me she is almost like an affirmative > action hire. If they want a black woman with box office pull (?), they go > to her. I do not think she is without talent, but there is a lack of > charisma. I cannot put my fingers on it, because I liked her back in the > day > > > > *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Keith Johnson > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:01 PM > *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > i don't think they're exceptions, at least, in terms of what your premise > has been, especially if younger women are taken into account. > And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this > discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said. > like me, she doesn't think Berry is really that good of an actress, only > seeming to convey any realism when she's on drugs or down-and-out. And to > your point, I think that's the probem with her in themovie: she doesn't come > close to conveying any of this subversive "girl power" you see in the flick. > > - Original Message - > From: "Kelwyn" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:51:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith > Johnson wrote: > > > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or > even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> > > Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule > at the box office. > > (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> > > ~rave! > > > > > > > > -- Bringing diversity to perversity for 9 years! Mahogany at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahogany_pleasures_of_darkness/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
One version I saw of Incubus is about a woman who is haunted by her abusive ex-husband's ghost. He cuts her body repeatedly, throws her across the room, and rapes her. It is loosely based on a true story. There are 9 different movies with that title. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: > > > You're right on about "Dog Soldiers". I first saw it late night one > Saturday, and was pleased. It didn't > scare me even though I was watching alone in the dark, yet it did hold my > interest. Never saw "The Incubus". Aside from the obvious, what's it about? > > - Original Message - > From: "Martin Baxter" > To: "SciFiNoir2" > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:47:37 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > Mr Worf, IMO, pick up "Dog Soldiers". It's not brilliant, incisive > movie-making by any stretch. Just fun. Didn't scare me a lick, but I did get > a kick out of it that horror movies haven't given me for -- well, forever, > since "Psycho". No, I take that back. "The Incubus" did make me jump, when I > first saw it (because the evil only attacked women -- even young, it still > rankled). > > And something made me IMDb the movie, to learn that (surprise surprise!) > H'Wood is sorta remaking it. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > -- > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: hellomahog...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:17:20 -0700 > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > >I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the > dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog > Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. > > I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." > There isn't a better name for it at this point. > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > > > > Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn > of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a > movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy > periodically ,and is pretty good). > > - Original Message - > From: "Mr. Worf" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% > of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act > on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter > wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the > gents here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > -- > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > >What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems t
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
If I remember correctly, the ratings came out really high, then they fell off. I think this was one of those shows where only a few shows were ordered up front, which didn't help. I believe it was pre-empted and moved a couple of times, which didn't help. And, i believe the new trend of micro-analyzing viewer numbers hurt it. Remember the days when new series got a whole *season* to succeed or fail? When a show got 26 or 28 eps in a season, instead of maybe 4 - 6 as a trial run? When ratings where averaged for an entire season, not broken down into this new method where a show's rating's from the first to second half of one airing are measured?! That's what killed this show. Yeah, the ratings dipped, but with some committment it could have found its legs. About 19 total eps were aired, but once the ratings dipped, the network was obviously skittish about it. We've discussed this time and time again, but think of all the great shows that we'd never have had if networks had cancelled them after bad ratings in the first few weeks. As an aside, I wonder if the show would do better now, just a few years later? I note that Davis' character only became President because she was the Veep and rose to office after the (male) President died. I seem to remember some of the politicians--men--expecting her to step down. As late as 2005, it was seen as a long shot that a woman could ascend to the White House just by being elected, or garner respect if she did. Then came Hillary, Obama, and Palin. Now, the thought of a woman or a person of color in the White House isn't a fantasy (I contend, despite the way some women lost their minds in rage at Obama defeating Clinton, that his success opens the doors for women as well as men of color, and I don't know if the reverse would have been true). Now we're in a new world, a world where not only can we seriously consider a female President, but some actually consider giving it to a dangerous, idiotic waste like Palin. That's progress, I guess, but I think now the show would do a bit better. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:42:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem You are bringing back memories and making me cry. I lived in Mexico at the time, but had visited for two weeks during the premier. I thought it was a hit when I left. What did ABC do to take it down? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:50 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I was delighted to see Kyle Secor--Bayliss from the fantastic series "Homicide"--in the role as Davis' husband. Another underrated, underused actor... - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:44:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved "Commander in Chief." I also think it is criminal how ABC mishandled it - firing the creator and original producer - and let it die. Harry Lennix was excellent as her chief of staff. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Martin Baxter wrote: > > > rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series > "Commander in Chief". > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: ravena...@... > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then > husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in > back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The > Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box > office bombs. > > > > ~(no)rave! > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > > > > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > > strive to look like and often they seek to act
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
You are bringing back memories and making me cry. I lived in Mexico at the time, but had visited for two weeks during the premier. I thought it was a hit when I left. What did ABC do to take it down? From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:50 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I was delighted to see Kyle Secor--Bayliss from the fantastic series "Homicide"--in the role as Davis' husband. Another underrated, underused actor... - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:44:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved "Commander in Chief." I also think it is criminal how ABC mishandled it - firing the creator and original producer - and let it die. Harry Lennix was excellent as her chief of staff. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> , Martin Baxter wrote: > > > rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series > "Commander in Chief". > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > From: ravena...@... > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then > husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in > back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The > Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box > office bombs. > > > > ~(no)rave! > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > > > > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they > > play. > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > > â€Å"the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia > > and became a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not > > specifically attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s > > sexual appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair > > and make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit > > she wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned > > mother characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I > > just not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure > > there are tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they > > would have been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They > > needed to let the audience in on the satire > > > > > > > > > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of Mr. Worf > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is star
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Ha, trust me, my wife doesn't hide her opinions. In fact she was the one who asked me to rent "Catwoman" because of the things I've said. She *wanted* to like the film. She wanted to support Berry having fun with the role. She thought it'd be a fun romp in which we could laugh at the goofy/sexualized portrayal. My wife loves to cheer for actresses who "do their thing", especially Black ones. But it was so bad she just shook her head... - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:15:10 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this > discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said.>> Well, Keith, if she admitted it she wouldn't be a "closet" fan. She'd be out here in the open with the rest of us "Cat" lovers. ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem - Last thought from me
First off, let me say I've enjoyed this discussion. you always make good points, express interesting views, even when I disagree with them. Your observations, reviews, and essays have made me consciously try to step up my game as a writer, reviewer, and critic. So, apologies if I'm off, but the way you've dismissed every actress several of us have offered up makes it seem as if Fox is doing something revolutionary, and she ain't. I note this is the second or third discussion recently in which you've said that I'm "ignoring something" that I don't agree with you on, as if I'm trying to put my head in the sand and hide from some fact of life. That's not the case. I'm not trying to hide from some great universal truth you're expounding, I just don't agree with your examples. i concede there is a whole discussion to be had about how h'Wood presents women, and how society at large want to view their actresses. No one is harder on a woman than another woman threatened by/jealous of her. And I agree that raw, open sexuality isn't something Americans know how to handle, Thus, we have movies full of amazingly graphic violence that get "R" ratings and to which parents take their kids, while we freak out and give "NC-17" to films dealing frankly with sexuality, fearing they'll turn our kids into degenerates. So yeah, there's a discussion to be had about a dominatrix-looking heroine, and whether America can handle it. There's a discussion to be had about whether women don't want to see a actress oozing "raw sex". I just don't think your two examples meet those standards. "Catwoman" is a horrible flick, and Berry wasn't a good choice for it at any rate. She just doesn't have that raw sexuality in my opinion, and isn't that deep an actress--at least, not enough to pull off Pitof's failure. Fox looks like a doll to me who never moves. Her range of expressions has been limited, and every review I read of "Jennifer's Body" said it was a movie with good intentions but bad execution. I think that in both cases--Fox and Berry--you're using bad proofs to support your theory. Neither woman to my mind is all that primal and sexual, neither has really blown me away with their acting. I think the lack of support for those movies of theirs is simply based on teh fact that--they're bad movies with actresses who may not be that skilled. okay, enough! i'm done with this one. Thanks for introducing the topic! - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:58:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I am fascinated by how you have (twice) interjected the notion that both the source article and I have suggested that Miss Fox was the first "actress in history who's superficially beautiful, possesses innate sexuality, and is confident and independent." This is clearly not the case and cannot be divined from any of my posts. And let me reiterate again that outside of "One Million Years BC," Raquel Welch was box office poison. ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > Man I had to read this thrice to get it! > I don't see how a woman can have "sexual power" without being "sexy". But > let's skip that for a moment. I agree beauty and sexual appeal don't always > go hand in hand. Like I said, Halle Berry is on the surface prettier than > Rosario Dawson (my opinion), but Dawson can be way more appealing and > sexually attractive. > > But I think we just disagree. Fox is pretty as hell, but Racquel Welch in her > prime puts the girl to shame. The article and you act as if Fox is the first > actress in history who's superficially beautiful, possesses innate sexuality, > and is confident and independent, and that turns off women. I think that's > giving Fox way too much credit, dismissing many actresses who have the whole > package in spades--and i can think of many besides whom Fox pales--and > lending some kind of weight to the failure of a film that by all accounts > simply isn't that good. > > - Original Message - > From: "Kelwyn" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 11:02:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > > > I'm not getting how Fox has a sexuality that's beyond what Pam Grier or > Racquel Welch or Michele Pfeiffer or Liz Taylor had, so that said sexuality > is turning women off from her.> > > > Beauty and sexual power are not synonymous. Whoppi Goldberg has sexual power > (ask Ted Danson and Frank Langella) but she is not sexy or beautiful. Eartha > Kitt exuded sexual power but while sexy, she was not beautiful. The most > famous femme fatale of all time, Mata Hari, was known more for her sensuality > and eroticism rather tha
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I understand. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:03 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem No, but it's not a supernatural film, right? So it may be implausible, but not impossible. I just never like to watch films like that where the killer could exist in the real world. Like I said, not worried about the Wolfma living next door, but Henry Lee Lucas or Dahmer? It could happen... - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:57:44 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem The first Saw got rave reviews and Danny Glover. I was curious, good and disturbing. But over and over to me is just sadistic. Also more than once and many variations is not original. It been a long time, but I do not remember the first saw being about a crazed cannibalistic serial killer From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I can't do that kind of thing once. I can watch any manner of alien or supernatural movie, but anything that's based in reality--in terms of regular humans--I tend not to watch. I'm not too worried about Frankenstein's Monster or Dracula showing up on my doorstep. But a crazed, cannibalistic serial killer? Unlikey (one hopes) but not impossible. I like the fantasy line separating the impossible from the possible. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:12:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I liked the first saw, but I cannot do that kind of thing on a regular basis From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:55 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent : Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
No, but it's not a supernatural film, right? So it may be implausible, but not impossible. I just never like to watch films like that where the killer could exist in the real world. Like I said, not worried about the Wolfma living next door, but Henry Lee Lucas or Dahmer? It could happen... - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:57:44 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem The first Saw got rave reviews and Danny Glover. I was curious, good and disturbing. But over and over to me is just sadistic. Also more than once and many variations is not original. It been a long time, but I do not remember the first saw being about a crazed cannibalistic serial killer From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I can't do that kind of thing once. I can watch any manner of alien or supernatural movie, but anything that's based in reality--in terms of regular humans--I tend not to watch. I'm not too worried about Frankenstein's Monster or Dracula showing up on my doorstep. But a crazed, cannibalistic serial killer? Unlikey (one hopes) but not impossible. I like the fantasy line separating the impossible from the possible. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:12:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I liked the first saw, but I cannot do that kind of thing on a regular basis From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:55 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent : Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Worf" < hellomahog...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the pe
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Very, very good series. All three principals are talented actors. Lahti is great as always, and the actors who play her two sons are very impressive. They each have a presence, a serious about them that makes you believe they could be destined for greatness. The whole future flashback angle is good. I never watched "West Wing" (just never got on my schedule) but I imagine this has some of its quality, even though the takes are vastly different. You have to stick with the first few eps, and especially let those flashes of the future seep in, as they tell the story. So much lost potential. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:53:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem They show that on Comcast on demand here. I always meant to check it out From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:37 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I like that show, but the one I really miss is "Jack and Bobby" the series about the two brothers in our time, one of whom will become President in the future. Starring Christine Lahti as their mother, it was a smart, interesting show, especially in how we'd get "flashbacks" from the President's staffers and friends in the future, and then be brought back to our time to see how he was being shaped. really good show with a really good premise that, alas, didn't catch on. - Original Message - From: "Martin Baxter" To: "SciFiNoir2" Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:28:21 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem No, you're not, Tracey. I cussed up a streak when they canceled it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:57:04 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved her in that. I guess I was the only one From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:34 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight†� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sur
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Maybe that is the problem. I do not know. I still liked her in the comedies From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:49 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I think Berry isn't a good actress, but an average one. She only seems able to be convincing when she plays extremes: a drug addict, a down-and-out woman who ends up having sex with a bigot, a BAP. But when she's called upon to do nuance or subtlety, she just seems to be trying. You can all but see her lips moving as she recites her lines before speaking them. I think she's too aware of being on screen. Phyllis and I saw her in that supposed sexy thriller last year (the name escapes me but Giovanni Ribisi and Bruce Willis were her co-stars). We just never bought her in the role. It wasn't just that it was a silly movie, Berry just didn't hold our attention, and when she was called upon to act angry or something, we actually laughed. Only when her character displayed some...weird traits...did she stop appearing to be acting. Ted Danson once said "Acting is the art of pretending to be someone else while pretending you're not pretending". I don't think Berry's too good at that pretending. She seems to be too nervous, too self-conscious. It's as if she's always on stage, always trying to convey an image, trying to gauge what people think about her, instead of just being natural. It's hard for me to describe too, but there's a lack of a sense of self, a lack of self-composure. I've felt that every time I've seen her in interviews, and it translates to her acting. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:33:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem The movie, is horrible, but I love Catwoman. It’s not something I watch over and over. I have seen long kiss goodnight, strange days, kill bill 2 and Batman II with Michele Pfieffer numerous times over the years. I still liked her tacky costume though Regarding Berry, I liked her in those comedies she did when she was young. I don’t hate her, I think she is pretty, I admire her accomplishments, but it does not translate to any of the films I see her in. She was okay in swordfish fish, but the best part of her character did not come out until the last 10 minutes of the movie. Gothika was okay, but I could take it or leave it. Catwoman was so poorly produced that I cannot blame her. Everybody looked bad in that. But to me she is almost like an affirmative action hire. If they want a black woman with box office pull (?), they go to her. I do not think she is without talent, but there is a lack of charisma. I cannot put my fingers on it, because I liked her back in the day From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:01 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem i don't think they're exceptions, at least, in terms of what your premise has been, especially if younger women are taken into account. And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said. like me, she doesn't think Berry is really that good of an actress, only seeming to convey any realism when she's on drugs or down-and-out. And to your point, I think that's the probem with her in themovie: she doesn't come close to conveying any of this subversive "girl power" you see in the flick. - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:51:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Johnson wrote: > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule at the box office. (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> ~rave!
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
The first Saw got rave reviews and Danny Glover. I was curious, good and disturbing. But over and over to me is just sadistic. Also more than once and many variations is not original. It been a long time, but I do not remember the first saw being about a crazed cannibalistic serial killer From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:39 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I can't do that kind of thing once. I can watch any manner of alien or supernatural movie, but anything that's based in reality--in terms of regular humans--I tend not to watch. I'm not too worried about Frankenstein's Monster or Dracula showing up on my doorstep. But a crazed, cannibalistic serial killer? Unlikey (one hopes) but not impossible. I like the fantasy line separating the impossible from the possible. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:12:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I liked the first saw, but I cannot do that kind of thing on a regular basis From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:55 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent : Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealous
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
They show that on Comcast on demand here. I always meant to check it out From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:37 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I like that show, but the one I really miss is "Jack and Bobby" the series about the two brothers in our time, one of whom will become President in the future. Starring Christine Lahti as their mother, it was a smart, interesting show, especially in how we'd get "flashbacks" from the President's staffers and friends in the future, and then be brought back to our time to see how he was being shaped. really good show with a really good premise that, alas, didn't catch on. - Original Message - From: "Martin Baxter" To: "SciFiNoir2" Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:28:21 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem No, you're not, Tracey. I cussed up a streak when they canceled it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:57:04 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved her in that. I guess I was the only one From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:34 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons > of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been > drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the > audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of > women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on > it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I was delighted to see Kyle Secor--Bayliss from the fantastic series "Homicide"--in the role as Davis' husband. Another underrated, underused actor... - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:44:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved "Commander in Chief." I also think it is criminal how ABC mishandled it - firing the creator and original producer - and let it die. Harry Lennix was excellent as her chief of staff. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Martin Baxter wrote: > > > rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series > "Commander in Chief". > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: ravena...@... > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then > husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in > back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The > Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box > office bombs. > > > > ~(no)rave! > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > > > > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they > > play. > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > > â€Å"the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia > > and became a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not > > specifically attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s > > sexual appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair > > and make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit > > she wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned > > mother characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I > > just not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure > > there are tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they > > would have been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They > > needed to let the audience in on the satire > > > > > > > > > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% > > of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act > > on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > > > > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > > them a long time ago. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > > > > > As
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I think Berry isn't a good actress, but an average one. She only seems able to be convincing when she plays extremes: a drug addict, a down-and-out woman who ends up having sex with a bigot, a BAP. But when she's called upon to do nuance or subtlety, she just seems to be trying. You can all but see her lips moving as she recites her lines before speaking them. I think she's too aware of being on screen. Phyllis and I saw her in that supposed sexy thriller last year (the name escapes me but Giovanni Ribisi and Bruce Willis were her co-stars). We just never bought her in the role. It wasn't just that it was a silly movie, Berry just didn't hold our attention, and when she was called upon to act angry or something, we actually laughed. Only when her character displayed some...weird traits...did she stop appearing to be acting. Ted Danson once said "Acting is the art of pretending to be someone else while pretending you're not pretending". I don't think Berry's too good at that pretending. She seems to be too nervous, too self-conscious. It's as if she's always on stage, always trying to convey an image, trying to gauge what people think about her, instead of just being natural. It's hard for me to describe too, but there's a lack of a sense of self, a lack of self-composure. I've felt that every time I've seen her in interviews, and it translates to her acting. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:33:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem The movie, is horrible, but I love Catwoman. It’s not something I watch over and over. I have seen long kiss goodnight, strange days, kill bill 2 and Batman II with Michele Pfieffer numerous times over the years. I still liked her tacky costume though Regarding Berry, I liked her in those comedies she did when she was young. I don’t hate her, I think she is pretty, I admire her accomplishments, but it does not translate to any of the films I see her in. She was okay in swordfish fish, but the best part of her character did not come out until the last 10 minutes of the movie. Gothika was okay, but I could take it or leave it. Catwoman was so poorly produced that I cannot blame her. Everybody looked bad in that. But to me she is almost like an affirmative action hire. If they want a black woman with box office pull (?), they go to her. I do not think she is without talent, but there is a lack of charisma. I cannot put my fingers on it, because I liked her back in the day From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:01 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem i don't think they're exceptions, at least, in terms of what your premise has been, especially if younger women are taken into account. And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said. like me, she doesn't think Berry is really that good of an actress, only seeming to convey any realism when she's on drugs or down-and-out. And to your point, I think that's the probem with her in themovie: she doesn't come close to conveying any of this subversive "girl power" you see in the flick. - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:51:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule at the box office. (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
It's not a standard horror/slasher flick. The problem in American cinema has been that for the last few decades, "horror" has indeed degenerated mostly into slasher flicks where nubile copulating teens get killed, and the only real suspense is how the next death will outdo the last. "Dog Soldiers" is more of a well written movie with above average acting (you'll recognize some of the actors from other stuff if you watch much British fare) and professional direction. Americans have OD'd so much on gore, sex, and cheap thrills, we've lost the ability to watch a plot that actually builds toward something. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:54:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I'll try to catch it when they show it again on syfy. I think I burned myself out on horror/slasher movies when I was a teen. My friend lived down the street from a video store that carried a lot of b movies (including faces of death) and we would often watch 4 movies or more a night on the weekends. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Mr Worf, IMO, pick up "Dog Soldiers". It's not brilliant, incisive movie-making by any stretch. Just fun. Didn't scare me a lick, but I did get a kick out of it that horror movies haven't given me for -- well, forever, since "Psycho". No, I take that back. "The Incubus" did make me jump, when I first saw it (because the evil only attacked women -- even young, it still rankled). And something made me IMDb the movie, to learn that (surprise surprise!) H'Wood is sorta remaking it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:17:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Worf" < hellomahog...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I can't do that kind of thing once. I can watch any manner of alien or supernatural movie, but anything that's based in reality--in terms of regular humans--I tend not to watch. I'm not too worried about Frankenstein's Monster or Dracula showing up on my doorstep. But a crazed, cannibalistic serial killer? Unlikey (one hopes) but not impossible. I like the fantasy line separating the impossible from the possible. - Original Message - From: "Tracey de Morsella" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:12:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I liked the first saw, but I cannot do that kind of thing on a regular basis From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:55 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent : Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" < hellomahog...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I like that show, but the one I really miss is "Jack and Bobby" the series about the two brothers in our time, one of whom will become President in the future. Starring Christine Lahti as their mother, it was a smart, interesting show, especially in how we'd get "flashbacks" from the President's staffers and friends in the future, and then be brought back to our time to see how he was being shaped. really good show with a really good premise that, alas, didn't catch on. - Original Message - From: "Martin Baxter" To: "SciFiNoir2" Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:28:21 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem No, you're not, Tracey. I cussed up a streak when they canceled it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:57:04 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved her in that. I guess I was the only one From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:34 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight†� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons > of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been > drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the > audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of > women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on > it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents > her
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
You're right on about "Dog Soldiers". I first saw it late night one Saturday, and was pleased. It didn't scare me even though I was watching alone in the dark, yet it did hold my interest. Never saw "The Incubus". Aside from the obvious, what's it about? - Original Message - From: "Martin Baxter" To: "SciFiNoir2" Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:47:37 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Mr Worf, IMO, pick up "Dog Soldiers". It's not brilliant, incisive movie-making by any stretch. Just fun. Didn't scare me a lick, but I did get a kick out of it that horror movies haven't given me for -- well, forever, since "Psycho". No, I take that back. "The Incubus" did make me jump, when I first saw it (because the evil only attacked women -- even young, it still rankled). And something made me IMDb the movie, to learn that (surprise surprise!) H'Wood is sorta remaking it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:17:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" < hellomahog...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in th
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
The movie, is horrible, but I love Catwoman. It’s not something I watch over and over. I have seen long kiss goodnight, strange days, kill bill 2 and Batman II with Michele Pfieffer numerous times over the years. I still liked her tacky costume though Regarding Berry, I liked her in those comedies she did when she was young. I don’t hate her, I think she is pretty, I admire her accomplishments, but it does not translate to any of the films I see her in. She was okay in swordfish fish, but the best part of her character did not come out until the last 10 minutes of the movie. Gothika was okay, but I could take it or leave it. Catwoman was so poorly produced that I cannot blame her. Everybody looked bad in that. But to me she is almost like an affirmative action hire. If they want a black woman with box office pull (?), they go to her. I do not think she is without talent, but there is a lack of charisma. I cannot put my fingers on it, because I liked her back in the day From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:01 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem i don't think they're exceptions, at least, in terms of what your premise has been, especially if younger women are taken into account. And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said. like me, she doesn't think Berry is really that good of an actress, only seeming to convey any realism when she's on drugs or down-and-out. And to your point, I think that's the probem with her in themovie: she doesn't come close to conveying any of this subversive "girl power" you see in the flick. - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:51:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Johnson wrote: > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule at the box office. (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
i don't think they're exceptions, at least, in terms of what your premise has been, especially if younger women are taken into account. And no, my wife isn't a closet fan of "Catwoman". When i told her of this discussion, she laughed her head off. "That movie was horrible!" she said. like me, she doesn't think Berry is really that good of an actress, only seeming to convey any realism when she's on drugs or down-and-out. And to your point, I think that's the probem with her in themovie: she doesn't come close to conveying any of this subversive "girl power" you see in the flick. - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:51:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule at the box office. (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I'll try to catch it when they show it again on syfy. I think I burned myself out on horror/slasher movies when I was a teen. My friend lived down the street from a video store that carried a lot of b movies (including faces of death) and we would often watch 4 movies or more a night on the weekends. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > Mr Worf, IMO, pick up "Dog Soldiers". It's not brilliant, incisive > movie-making by any stretch. Just fun. Didn't scare me a lick, but I did get > a kick out of it that horror movies haven't given me for -- well, forever, > since "Psycho". No, I take that back. "The Incubus" did make me jump, when I > first saw it (because the evil only attacked women -- even young, it still > rankled). > > And something made me IMDb the movie, to learn that (surprise surprise!) > H'Wood is sorta remaking it. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > ---------- > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: hellomahog...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:17:20 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. > Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I > didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. > > I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." > There isn't a better name for it at this point. > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson > wrote: > > > > Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn > of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a > movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy > periodically ,and is pretty good). > > - Original Message - > From: "Mr. Worf" > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% > of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act > on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter > wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the > gents here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > -- > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > >What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing > but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which > the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the > previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have > thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. > Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, > but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might > bite off a guys im
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I liked the first saw, but I cannot do that kind of thing on a regular basis From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:55 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent : Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a transformers DVD instead, ba
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I don't do "torture porn" either. Just not my thing. I still believe that real horror is based on genuine suspense, not the payoff. Though I hear that Hostel and the first Saw are actually pretty suspenseful, it's too much for me. I did watch a flick a few months ago that I think was from Eli Roth, or one of his buddies. I forget the name--"The Cave"?--but it was about the usual group of idiot young people who stumble into the backwoods. There, they contract some kind of flesh eating disease that starts causing them to all but decay. It was actually silly fun ,and I laughed quite a bit. I think what helped is that this was shown on SyFy, so much of the gratuitous gore was cut, but the gist of it was still there. It was a really good time waster for a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon. - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:17:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson < keithbjohn...@comcast.net > wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message - From: "Mr. Worf" < hellomahog...@gmail.com > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com > wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a transformers DVD instead, based on those previews -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM To:
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
No, you're not, Tracey. I cussed up a streak when they canceled it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:57:04 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I loved her in that. I guess I was the only one From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:34 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in “the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > _ > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@... > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I loved her in that. I guess I was the only one From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:34 PM To: SciFiNoir2 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons > of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been > drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the > audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of > women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on > it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents > here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > _ > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@... > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Mr Worf, IMO, pick up "Dog Soldiers". It's not brilliant, incisive movie-making by any stretch. Just fun. Didn't scare me a lick, but I did get a kick out of it that horror movies haven't given me for -- well, forever, since "Psycho". No, I take that back. "The Incubus" did make me jump, when I first saw it (because the evil only attacked women -- even young, it still rankled). And something made me IMDb the movie, to learn that (surprise surprise!) H'Wood is sorta remaking it. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: hellomahog...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:17:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead. Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel. I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There isn't a better name for it at this point. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson wrote: Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically ,and is pretty good). - Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Worf" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a transformers DVD instead, based on those previews -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I defy you to name a
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
rave, don't forget that Geena played a female President in the brief series "Commander in Chief". "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:05:33 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight� She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are > tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have > been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let > the audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of > women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on > it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents > here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > _ > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@... > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing > but a body and then she star's in a movie cal
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Tracey, I think that Stone burned out too soon, and just hasn't noticed it yet. Turner -- I don't think that she really ever wanted to be a sex symbol. Her turn in "Body heat" unfortunately (for her) jammed her face into the minds of men worldwide as a sex symbol. And I'm seconding your words regarding mesdemoiselles Stanwyck, Davis, Lupino and Crawford to the wall. I happened to take in "Mildred Pierce" with several male friends a few weeks back on TCM, and they were almost terrified of her. "Maneater" was the most frequently used sobriquet regarding her. And one remarked that she must've been "an Amazon, about six feet tall", because of the presence she seemed to project. It took a long look at the iMDB site to convince him that she wasn't that tall. (They list her there as 5'5", though most in H'Wood, including Robert Osborne, put her at barely 5'.) "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:15:55 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I agree. I Lve Stanwyck Crawford, Davis and add Ida Lupino to the list. (although I mostly like her because of her being the first female director in Hollywood with muscle. ) Those women are not raving beauties, but growing up I thought they were t cool! They were the original kick-ass broads. I do not get what has happened to Stone and Turner. I think it is obsession with targeting youth. During the Golden Age films targeted adults and kids went along for the ride. Now they target youth and adults either must go along for the ride or seek out independent films -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:42 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I am going to say something paradoxical here (I've been thinking about this all night), stars like Rita Hayward, Bette Davis and Joan Crawford have to be taken off the board. (Yes, I know Rita Hayward was hot and Bette Davis and Joan Crawford were not. But Ms. Davis and Ms. Crawford were sick with sexual power). I say this because during Hollywood's Golden Age there were many strong women represented on the big screen (Miss Barbara Stanwyck, anyone?), which was in direct opposition to the strength of women in society at large. I suggest male dominated box office (beginning with Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds in the late seventies) is in direct opposition to women's lib and the advancement of women in the workplace. To address Rita Hayward specifically, her most famous role was "Gilda," where she flaunted her sexual power like nobody's business. "Gilda" is a terrific fusion of "sexual heat, jealosy, fear and hatred," of the kind we haven't seen since "Basic Instinct" (1992). Which reminds of great strong, sexual screen presences like Kathleen Turner and Sharon Stone and how they are largely considered menopausal jokes now. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > rave, what about Rita Hayworth? > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: ravena...@... > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:18:57 + > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was as a sexy, beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike Nichol's "Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent who escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn down the building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman." > > > > Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy). > > > > Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until her rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood. > > > > Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I know. It upset me to no end. Like I said. I do not disagree in general, just regarding Fox and the film. She may end up having these problems, but her beauty was not part of the promos. The promos were misleading and offputting -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:06 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Thank you for the Gena Davis. Ms. Davis is strong and beautiful and her then husband, Renny Harlin, sought to showcase her as a kick-ass heroine in back-to-back movies: "Cutthroat Island" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight"). "The Long Kiss Goodnight" is a great movie but both it and "Cutthroat" were box office bombs. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not > what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they > strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. > > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight†She was an assassin who had amnesia and became > a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore > when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are > tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have > been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let > the audience in on the satire > > > > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mr. Worf > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of > women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on > it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents > here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody > hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > _ > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@... > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing > but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which > the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some deci
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I agree. I Lve Stanwyck Crawford, Davis and add Ida Lupino to the list. (although I mostly like her because of her being the first female director in Hollywood with muscle. ) Those women are not raving beauties, but growing up I thought they were t cool! They were the original kick-ass broads. I do not get what has happened to Stone and Turner. I think it is obsession with targeting youth. During the Golden Age films targeted adults and kids went along for the ride. Now they target youth and adults either must go along for the ride or seek out independent films -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:42 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I am going to say something paradoxical here (I've been thinking about this all night), stars like Rita Hayward, Bette Davis and Joan Crawford have to be taken off the board. (Yes, I know Rita Hayward was hot and Bette Davis and Joan Crawford were not. But Ms. Davis and Ms. Crawford were sick with sexual power). I say this because during Hollywood's Golden Age there were many strong women represented on the big screen (Miss Barbara Stanwyck, anyone?), which was in direct opposition to the strength of women in society at large. I suggest male dominated box office (beginning with Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds in the late seventies) is in direct opposition to women's lib and the advancement of women in the workplace. To address Rita Hayward specifically, her most famous role was "Gilda," where she flaunted her sexual power like nobody's business. "Gilda" is a terrific fusion of "sexual heat, jealosy, fear and hatred," of the kind we haven't seen since "Basic Instinct" (1992). Which reminds of great strong, sexual screen presences like Kathleen Turner and Sharon Stone and how they are largely considered menopausal jokes now. ~(no)rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin Baxter wrote: > > > rave, what about Rita Hayworth? > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: ravena...@... > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:18:57 + > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was as a sexy, beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike Nichol's "Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent who escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn down the building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman." > > > > Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy). > > > > Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until her rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood. > > > > Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable because she was always coupled with strong iconic men like big, robust Howard Keel in "Showboat" and Clark Gable in "Magambo" - men who could literally put her in her "place." > > > > But you make my point best in your last paragraph: none of the previews showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. > > > > Hall and Oates wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it go: > > > > She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart > > Mind over matter > > Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart > > (Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up > > (Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater > > (Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up > > (Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater > > > > ~rave! > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > > > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > > > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > > > > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > > > > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > > > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > > > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > > > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > > > those th
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I took it as a compliment. I'm not in the closet. If I were younger, I would probably be trying to wear knockoff of her outfits to the clubs Thanks - you made my morning -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:51 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote: > Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.>> Tracey and your wife are exceptions (that is a compliment) and not the rule at the box office. (I suspect they are closet "Catwoman" fans);> ~rave! Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYa hoo! Groups Links
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I get frustrated with the character's actions. I liked Shawn of the dead.
Twenty eight days later was just ok to me. I haven't seen Dog Soldiers. I
didn't make it all the way through Saw 1 or Hostel.
I think Saw and Hostel falls into that new category of "Torture porn." There
isn't a better name for it at this point.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
>
> Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn
> of the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a
> movie about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy
> periodically ,and is pretty good).
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mr. Worf"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
> This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45%
> of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act
> on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too.
>
> I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in
> them a long time ago.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious
>> attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty.
>>
>> As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the
>> gents here are hoping for posted images.
>>
>> "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in
>> bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>> From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com
>> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700
>> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>>
>>What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
>> before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine
>> Heigl,
>> Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
>>
>> All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
>>
>> Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
>> not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
>> Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
>> buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
>> those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
>>
>> I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
>> poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
>> but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
>> the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in
>> the
>> previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would
>> have
>> thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
>> Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
>> but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
>> bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a
>> forum/penthouse
>> letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it
>> came
>> to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
>> the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
>> were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
>> transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
>> Behalf Of Kelwyn
>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>>
>> I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
>> Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten
>> up)in
>> all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
>> is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
>> around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
>> female sexual power ("Cleopatra") we
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Why don't you like horror movies? Does that include newer stuff like "Shawn of
the Dead", "Twenty-Eight Days Later", and "Dog Soldiers" (the later is a movie
about British soldiers besieged by werewolves. Shows up on SyFy periodically
,and is pretty good).
- Original Message -
From: "Mr. Worf"
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:33:03 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of
women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it.
I would suspect that it is the same for men too.
I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them
a long time ago.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter < truthseeker...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious
attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty.
As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents
here are hoping for posted images.
"If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody
hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I think that part of the problem lies with Hollywood itself. There aren't many roles for strong women, because we have mostly men doing the writing. I would love to see some strong women on screen. Not former victims fighting back, or vulnerable and hurt but strong women start to finish. We won't see that. Even Lara Croft who was strong in the video game didn't totally make the translation in the movie. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Tracey de Morsella < tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com> wrote: > > > I think you are right about women and power. Unfortunately, I’m drawn to > powerful women in film. They are few and far between. I think that is why > I was upset that Halle Berry was cast as Storm. I loved Angela Bassett in > Strange Days and wanted to see her as Storm. I realized they saw her as > too old, but I wish they would have cast the role with an actress with a > stronger presence. Halle, is too demure. I think some American men are > threatened by strong women and that transfers to how female characters are > formed. That is why even though I disagree with Rave in this instance, and > a few others, over all I think he and you are right about women in film. . > > > > > I think Uma and Geena are pretty. Keep in mind that both are older now, > but I agree, their strength was not specifically in their looks, but their > presence. > > > > Thanks for letting me know about the track suit. > > > > *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Mr. Worf > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:27 PM > > *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > I think that there is a different set of rules at work with Uma Thurman and > Gena Davis. They are more average looking than beautiful women in my > opinion. (By the way, Uma was wearing a Bruce Lee track suit from the Game > of Death in that scene.) > > For some reason it is very rare to see women in a strong lead role in this > country. I think Hollywood may be afraid that if they did it would start a > power struggle and destroy the country or something kooky like that! :) > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Tracey de Morsella < > tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com> wrote: > > > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was > not what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people > they strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they > play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight” She was an assassin who had amnesia and became a > wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she > wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons > of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been > drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the > audience in on the satire > > > > *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Mr. Worf > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% > of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act > on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter > wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the > gents here are hoping for posted
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I think you are right about women and power. Unfortunately, I’m drawn to powerful women in film. They are few and far between. I think that is why I was upset that Halle Berry was cast as Storm. I loved Angela Bassett in Strange Days and wanted to see her as Storm. I realized they saw her as too old, but I wish they would have cast the role with an actress with a stronger presence. Halle, is too demure. I think some American men are threatened by strong women and that transfers to how female characters are formed. That is why even though I disagree with Rave in this instance, and a few others, over all I think he and you are right about women in film. . I think Uma and Geena are pretty. Keep in mind that both are older now, but I agree, their strength was not specifically in their looks, but their presence. Thanks for letting me know about the track suit. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:27 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I think that there is a different set of rules at work with Uma Thurman and Gena Davis. They are more average looking than beautiful women in my opinion. (By the way, Uma was wearing a Bruce Lee track suit from the Game of Death in that scene.) For some reason it is very rare to see women in a strong lead role in this country. I think Hollywood may be afraid that if they did it would start a power struggle and destroy the country or something kooky like that! :) On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Tracey de Morsella wrote: You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play. For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in “the long kiss goodnight” She was an assassin who had amnesia and became a wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a mother/assassin protecting her own. I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically attracted to Gena Davis. Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother characters. Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the audience in on the satire From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr. Worf Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them a long time ago. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote: Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents here are hoping for posted images. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik _ To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, those things were in okay, so stop laughing. I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DV
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I think that there is a different set of rules at work with Uma Thurman and Gena Davis. They are more average looking than beautiful women in my opinion. (By the way, Uma was wearing a Bruce Lee track suit from the Game of Death in that scene.) For some reason it is very rare to see women in a strong lead role in this country. I think Hollywood may be afraid that if they did it would start a power struggle and destroy the country or something kooky like that! :) On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Tracey de Morsella < tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com> wrote: > > > You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was > not what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people > they strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they > play. > > > > For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in > “the long kiss goodnight” She was an assassin who had amnesia and became a > wife, mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a > mother/assassin protecting her own. > > > > I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically > attracted to Gena Davis. > > > > Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in > Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual > appeal, I do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and > make-up job on her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she > wore when she took down the all those guys with swords. > > > > I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother > characters. > > > > Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just > not referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons > of women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been > drawn to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the > audience in on the satire > > > > *From:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Mr. Worf > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM > *To:* scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > > > This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% > of women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act > on it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too. > > I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in > them a long time ago. > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter > wrote: > > > > Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious > attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty. > > As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the > gents here are hoping for posted images. > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > -- > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700 > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl, > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing > but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which > the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the > previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have > thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. > Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, > but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might > bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penth
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
You misread my statement. While I do not discount those stats, that was not
what I was talking about. Women see famous beautiful women as people they
strive to look like and often they seek to act like the characters they play.
For example, when I was younger, I saw Gena Davis with Samuel Jackson in “the
long kiss goodnight” She was an assassin who had amnesia and became a wife,
mother and school teacher. She hit her head and became a mother/assassin
protecting her own.
I thought she was s col! But I’m not specifically
attracted to Gena Davis.
Another example of a kick ass broad character I just Love is the Bride in
Kill Bill, but again, its not specifically about Uma Thurman’s sexual appeal, I
do not think she is aging that well or that do a bad hair and make-up job on
her, but I would love to have that crazy eight outfit she wore when she took
down the all those guys with swords.
I see a trend, I think I love kiss Ass Broad Assasin’s/ turned mother
characters.
Anyway, I’m not discounting the sexual interest theory you raised, I just not
referring specifically to it. That being said, I’m sure there are tons of
women attracted to Megan Fox, but I seriously doubt they would have been drawn
to her in those promos that made her ugly. They needed to let the audience in
on the satire
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mr. Worf
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:33 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of
women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on it.
I would suspect that it is the same for men too.
I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in them
a long time ago.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter
wrote:
Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious
attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty.
As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents
here are hoping for posted images.
"If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody
hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
_
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be c
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
The problem is that Rave’s suppositions are made without seeing the promos. I do not think he can truly judge without seeing how bad the promos were. He is making these assessments based on Fox in general, not on how she was promoted. She has never been promoted as scary and close to ugly before. From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 3:33 PM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem Man I had to read this thrice to get it! I don't see how a woman can have "sexual power" without being "sexy". But let's skip that for a moment. I agree beauty and sexual appeal don't always go hand in hand. Like I said, Halle Berry is on the surface prettier than Rosario Dawson (my opinion), but Dawson can be way more appealing and sexually attractive. But I think we just disagree. Fox is pretty as hell, but Racquel Welch in her prime puts the girl to shame. The article and you act as if Fox is the first actress in history who's superficially beautiful, possesses innate sexuality, and is confident and independent, and that turns off women. I think that's giving Fox way too much credit, dismissing many actresses who have the whole package in spades--and i can think of many besides whom Fox pales--and lending some kind of weight to the failure of a film that by all accounts simply isn't that good. < br>- Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 11:02:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Johnson wrote: > I'm not getting how Fox has a sexuality that's beyond what Pam Grier or Racquel Welch or Michele Pfeiffer or Liz Taylor had, so that said sexuality is turning women off from her.> > Beauty and sexual power are not synonymous. Whoppi Goldberg has sexual power (ask Ted Danson and Frank Langella) but she is not sexy or beautiful. Eartha Kitt exuded sexual power but while sexy, she was not beautiful. The most famous femme fatale of all time, Mata Hari, was known more for her sensuality and eroticism rather than for striking classical beauty. Conversely, it is possible to be both sexy and beautiful and to not have any sexual power. It sensuality and eroticism that boys and girls of all ages have difficulty with - not beauty or sexiness. ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
This is starting to sound like a post on the Kinsey surveys. :) About 45% of
women say that they are attracted to other women but only about 25% act on
it. I would suspect that it is the same for men too.
I have several female friends that love horror movies. I lost interest in
them a long time ago.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>
> Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious
> attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty.
>
> As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the
> gents here are hoping for posted images.
>
> "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in
> bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
>
>
>
>
> --
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700
> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
> before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
> Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
>
> All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
>
> Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
> not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
> Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
> buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
> those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
>
> I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
> poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
> but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
> the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
> previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
> thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
> Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
> but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
> bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
> letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it
> came
> to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
> the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
> were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
> transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Kelwyn
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
> I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
> Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
> all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
> is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
> around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
> female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
>
> And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not
> for
> being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
> which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
> Fox is no Barbie doll.
>
> There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson
> wrote:
> >
> > Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
> audiences?
> > And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
> beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
> depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
> mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've
> been
> classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
> Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
> audience, depending on the roles they play.
> > I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Kelwyn"
> > To:
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Man I had to read this thrice to get it! I don't see how a woman can have "sexual power" without being "sexy". But let's skip that for a moment. I agree beauty and sexual appeal don't always go hand in hand. Like I said, Halle Berry is on the surface prettier than Rosario Dawson (my opinion), but Dawson can be way more appealing and sexually attractive. But I think we just disagree. Fox is pretty as hell, but Racquel Welch in her prime puts the girl to shame. The article and you act as if Fox is the first actress in history who's superficially beautiful, possesses innate sexuality, and is confident and independent, and that turns off women. I think that's giving Fox way too much credit, dismissing many actresses who have the whole package in spades--and i can think of many besides whom Fox pales--and lending some kind of weight to the failure of a film that by all accounts simply isn't that good. - Original Message - From: "Kelwyn" To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 11:02:22 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote: > I'm not getting how Fox has a sexuality that's beyond what Pam Grier or Racquel Welch or Michele Pfeiffer or Liz Taylor had, so that said sexuality is turning women off from her.> > Beauty and sexual power are not synonymous. Whoppi Goldberg has sexual power (ask Ted Danson and Frank Langella) but she is not sexy or beautiful. Eartha Kitt exuded sexual power but while sexy, she was not beautiful. The most famous femme fatale of all time, Mata Hari, was known more for her sensuality and eroticism rather than for striking classical beauty. Conversely, it is possible to be both sexy and beautiful and to not have any sexual power. It sensuality and eroticism that boys and girls of all ages have difficulty with - not beauty or sexiness. ~rave!
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
True, but what the article is saying is that women aren't just *ignoring* Fox
(my contention), they're actively turned off by her supposedly primal
sexuality, as if they're jealous or threatened or forced to see something in
her they don't want to acknowledge can be a part of any woman.
What I'm saying is that, even when people like Taylor didn't do well in a
particular film, they still built up a body of work that stood the test of time
despite their physical appeal. You seem to be saying that Fox is a new kind of
woman, one who's both sexual as hell, but also her own woman, not dependent on
being supported by--or abused by--a man. And, that turns off women.
I just don't buy that because too many actresses in history who did exude real
sexuality and were in control still found female fans. My wife is a great
example. She'd never "vamp" a guy, and she doesn't like it when women use overt
sexuality to manipulate men. But, she'll enjoy an actress who does so in a
movie, if the performance is good. We don't have to *like* a role in a film to
be *moved* by it. A great example to me is Kathleen Turner. In the remake of
"Body Heat", that lady almost literally scorched the screen she was so primal.
The poor fool she used never stood a chance. Hell, she had *me* panting! I
remember talking to women who enjoyed the performance. My wife thought "she
played that role!" And, she didn't need Turner to ultimately be taken down or
bow down to a man to enjoy that performance.
I don't think this is about Fox being too primal and sexual for women. I think
that even if we stop talking about all the actresses you're dismissing because
they worked in the days of women being subservient to men on screen, we can
find lots of examples of actresses holding their own who equal or exceed Fox's
sexual quotient.
I think it's about the fact that Fox is more of a Barbie Doll: she poses real
nice, and looks great, but has the same expression and little range. When I
think of Fox, I think of "poses": draped across the motorcycle in Transformers,
running in the white tight-fitting outfit, or the posters and ads for
"Jennifer's Body" that focus on her eyes and pouty, slighted parted lips. Girl
sho' 'nuff *looks* good, but I haven't seen anything to convey that she *acts*
good.
Women like Tracey and my wife, rather than being jealous, intimidated, or even
angered by her, are simply not moved to see Fox.
- Original Message -
From: "Kelwyn"
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 10:28:21 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote:
>
What about Liz Taylor?
>
Liz Taylor is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was
slapped around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded
pure female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits. (I said this
in my original post).
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
It's more August where the bad movies go. Toward the mid- to end of September,
they start trotting out the Halloween themed films and some of the fall stuff
that's supposed to be a notch above the summer fare.
Ain't it a crazy system?
- Original Message -
From: "George Arterberry"
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 5:06:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Isn't September when studios "dump" movies into the multiplex that are
considered crap?After the summer season and before the Xmas/Oscar rush.
--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Tracey de Morsella
wrote:
From: Tracey de Morsella
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:55 AM
To more: Leslie Caron ( she had big lips before they ware considered
acceptable) and Natalie Wood. Both considered sex kittens in their day
-Original Message-
From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com ] On
Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:39 PM
To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com ] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra" ) were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com , Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
rave, what about Rita Hayworth?
"If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody
hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
From: ravena...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:18:57 +
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was
as a sexy, beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike
Nichol's "Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she
headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent who
escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn down the
building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman."
Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy).
Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until her
rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood.
Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable
because she was always coupled with strong iconic men like big, robust Howard
Keel in "Showboat" and Clark Gable in "Magambo" - men who could literally put
her in her "place."
But you make my point best in your last paragraph: none of the previews showed
her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked
like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a
forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no
when it came to targeting mainstream males.
Hall and Oates wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it go:
She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart
Mind over matter
Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote:
>
> What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
> before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
> Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
>
> All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
>
> Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
> not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
> Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
> buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
> those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
>
> I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
> poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
> but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
> the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
> previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
> thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
> Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
> but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
> bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
> letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
> to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
> the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
> were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
> transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Kelwyn
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
> I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
> Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
> all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
> is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
> around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
> female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
>
> And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
> being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
> which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
> Fox is no Barbie doll.
>
> There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Aubrey, I must insert here that she does nothing whatsoever for me. Mind you, I am deeply disturbed. "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:57:16 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem If you are referring to Megan Fox, I am saying, yes, she has and flaunts her sexual power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Aubrey Leatherwood wrote: > > > I'm not following. Are you saying she has it or she doesn't? Sexual power > that is. > _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Tracey, I agree with you that she was anything but sexy in the trailers, but I have to say that I have friends of the male persuasion who, after seeing those trailers, announced their intention to camp out until tickets were available, and cleared their calendars to take in the actual move. (Yes, there are some disturbed sumbugs out there.) "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:39:50 -0700 Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem But her sexual power was not being flaunted in the promos of the movie. She was not sexy in the promos. She was almost ugly and definitely horrifying. That is why your theory does not hold in this instance, but I do agree with it overall historically. That may be her problem in the future, but the marketing of the film negates your theory in this instance. In fact, I would say the promos show the least prettiest images I have ever seen of her. If the film is as good as they say it is, if I were the makers of the film, I'd be really pissed at the suits for how they marketed and targeted the film. The took a very myopic approach -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:57 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem If you are referring to Megan Fox, I am saying, yes, she has and flaunts her sexual power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Aubrey Leatherwood wrote: > > > I'm not following. Are you saying she has it or she doesn't? Sexual power that is. > Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYa hoo! Groups Links _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I'm interested in seeing it too. You need to see the promos before you can judge about the sexually issue. Those promos did NOT make her look sexy. They totally blew it on the marketing. -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:03 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem I have seen neither the movie nor the ad campaign. I am more interested in the movie because Diablo Cody wrote the script than because Megan Fox is in it. I remain more likely to see a movie because Megan GOOD is in it than because Megan Fox is in it (still haven't seen "Transformers 2"). Lastly, the original commentary about Megan Fox vis-a-vis "Jennifer's Body"'s poor box office was not mine. I used it to bolster my "Catwoman" argument. ~rave! --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > But Rave... What about my assessment of the horrible marketing of the > "comedy". And Yeah I get the maneater part--- but give me a break, her > face was a horrifying elongated mouth with huge razor sharp teeth. They > were selling it as a pure youth targeted slasher flick... not a comedy. > > -Original Message- > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kelwyn > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:19 AM > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem > > Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was as a sexy, > beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike Nichol's > "Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she > headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent > who escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn > down the building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman." > > Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy). > > Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until > her rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood. > > Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable > because she was always coupled with strong iconic men like big, robust > Howard Keel in "Showboat" and Clark Gable in "Magambo" - men who could > literally put her in her "place." > > But you make my point best in your last paragraph: none of the previews > showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her > that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone > who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was > considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males. > > Hall and Oates wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it go: > > She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart > Mind over matter > Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart > (Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up > (Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater > (Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up > (Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater > > ~rave! > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote: > > > > What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie ( > > before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine > Heigl, > > Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel > > > > All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy > > > > Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do > > not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with > > Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was > > buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day, > > those things were in okay, so stop laughing. > > > > I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was > > poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing > > but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which > > the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in > the > > previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would > have > > thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body. > > Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing, > > but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might > > bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a > forum/penthouse > > letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it > came > > to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and > > the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I > > were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a > > transform
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
But her sexual power was not being flaunted in the promos of the movie. She was not sexy in the promos. She was almost ugly and definitely horrifying. That is why your theory does not hold in this instance, but I do agree with it overall historically. That may be her problem in the future, but the marketing of the film negates your theory in this instance. In fact, I would say the promos show the least prettiest images I have ever seen of her. If the film is as good as they say it is, if I were the makers of the film, I'd be really pissed at the suits for how they marketed and targeted the film. The took a very myopic approach -Original Message- From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelwyn Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:57 AM To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem If you are referring to Megan Fox, I am saying, yes, she has and flaunts her sexual power. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Aubrey Leatherwood wrote: > > > I'm not following. Are you saying she has it or she doesn't? Sexual power that is. > Post your SciFiNoir Profile at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/app/peoplemap2/entry/add?fmvn=mapYa hoo! Groups Links
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
But Rave... What about my assessment of the horrible marketing of the
"comedy". And Yeah I get the maneater part--- but give me a break, her
face was a horrifying elongated mouth with huge razor sharp teeth. They
were selling it as a pure youth targeted slasher flick... not a comedy.
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:19 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was as a sexy,
beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike Nichol's
"Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she
headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent
who escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn
down the building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman."
Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy).
Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until
her rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood.
Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable
because she was always coupled with strong iconic men like big, robust
Howard Keel in "Showboat" and Clark Gable in "Magambo" - men who could
literally put her in her "place."
But you make my point best in your last paragraph: none of the previews
showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her
that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone
who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was
considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males.
Hall and Oates wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it go:
She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart
Mind over matter
Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote:
>
> What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
> before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine
Heigl,
> Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
>
> All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
>
> Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
> not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
> Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
> buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
> those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
>
> I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
> poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
> but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
> the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in
the
> previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would
have
> thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
> Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
> but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
> bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a
forum/penthouse
> letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it
came
> to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
> the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
> were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
> transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Kelwyn
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
> I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
> Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten
up)in
> all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
> is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
> around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
> female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
>
> And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not
for
> being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
> which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
> Fox is no Barbie doll.
>
> There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits
you.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifin
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Point taken :-)
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:19 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Ann Margaret was eye and arm candy. Her most iconic role was as a sexy,
beautiful woman who is shamelessly punked by Jack Nicholson in Mike Nichol's
"Carnal Knowledge." To my point, in one of the few movies she
headlined,"Kitten with a Whip," in which she played a juvenile delinquent
who escapes from reform school by stabbing a matron and attempting to burn
down the building, proved to be her personal "Catwoman."
Ditto for Marilyn Monroe (victim, eye and arm candy).
Angelina Jolie fits the bill but she did not become a box office star until
her rogue sexuality was softened by adoption and motherhood.
Ava Gardner is an excellent example but her overt sexuality was acceptable
because she was always coupled with strong iconic men like big, robust
Howard Keel in "Showboat" and Clark Gable in "Magambo" - men who could
literally put her in her "place."
But you make my point best in your last paragraph: none of the previews
showed her looking appealing, but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her
that looked like she might bite off a guys important part. I knew someone
who edited a forum/penthouse letters publication once, and stuff like was
considered a no-no when it came to targeting mainstream males.
Hall and Oates wrote a song about it. Wanna hear it? Here it go:
She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart
Mind over matter
Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" wrote:
>
> What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
> before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine
Heigl,
> Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
>
> All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
>
> Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
> not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
> Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
> buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
> those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
>
> I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
> poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
> but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
> the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in
the
> previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would
have
> thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
> Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
> but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
> bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a
forum/penthouse
> letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it
came
> to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
> the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
> were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
> transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Kelwyn
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
> I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
> Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten
up)in
> all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
> is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
> around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
> female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
>
> And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not
for
> being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
> which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
> Fox is no Barbie doll.
>
> There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits
you.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
> audiences?
> > And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
> beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't disp
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I'm not following. Are you saying she has it or she doesn't? Sexual power that is. Aubrey Leatherwood www.aubreyleatherwood.com FaceBook * MySpace Dime Coming November 2 from Phaze Books Imperfection A tale of perfect commitment, perfect love... and perfect sex. The People You Know, The Sex They Have ROMANTIC TIMES NOMINEE FOR BEST CONTEMPORARY EROTICA 2008 ISBN: 978-0-9818905-0-0 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com From: ravena...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:02:22 + Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote: > I'm not getting how Fox has a sexuality that's beyond what Pam Grier or Racquel Welch or Michele Pfeiffer or Liz Taylor had, so that said sexuality is turning women off from her.> > Beauty and sexual power are not synonymous. Whoppi Goldberg has sexual power (ask Ted Danson and Frank Langella) but she is not sexy or beautiful. Eartha Kitt exuded sexual power but while sexy, she was not beautiful. The most famous femme fatale of all time, Mata Hari, was known more for her sensuality and eroticism rather than for striking classical beauty. Conversely, it is possible to be both sexy and beautiful and to not have any sexual power. It sensuality and eroticism that boys and girls of all ages have difficulty with - not beauty or sexiness. ~rave! _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I'm not getting how Fox has a sexuality that's beyond what Pam Grier or Racquel
Welch or Michele Pfeiffer or Liz Taylor had, so that said sexuality is turning
women off from her. You're a little harsh in saying I'm trying to ignore this:
i'm just unclear on how Fox's beauty or sexuality differs from other screen
sirens who still found success. Are you saying Welch and Grier had no success
at the movies, or, Grier only did well because she was abused, then got
vengeance? What aobut Liz Taylor?
None of the actresses in history who are beautiful also exuded "Pure, raw
sexuality"? I do disagree a bit with the article, because Fox isn't the first
actress to have this "raw sexuality", so I'm not sure I agree that's the only
reason women aren't supporting her.
- Original Message -
From: "Kelwyn"
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 12:31:46 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in all
her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor is
perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped around in
a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure female sexual
power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality," which
is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful." Fox is no
Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
> audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
> beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
> depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
> mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
> classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
> Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
> audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From Entertainment Weekly, October 9, 2009:
>
> "Jennifer's Body" deadly $6.8 million debut is attributed to Megan Fox's
> "sexy-beast" persona proving off-putting to women, without whom a horror
> movie don't stand a chance. "The genre is driven by the female audience, and
> I don't know that girls relate to her," says the executive. "Megan leads with
> pure, raw sexuality, and for girls it's a turnoff."
>
> Fox's drawing power will be tested again with next summer's western "Jonah
> Hex," aimed at her core: young guys.
>
> "If I were cutting the "Hex" trailer," says a studio strategist, "I'd make
> sure she was in as much of it as possible - in compromising positions."
>
> I imagine it would do even better if she could be raped during the movie.
>
> ~(no)rave!
>
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Tracey, I agree with you. Many of the women I know have expressed serious
attractions toward women they consider to be the epitome of beauty.
As for your wordrobe, no one's laughing. I'll wager that several of the gents
here are hoping for posted images.
"If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in bloody
hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
From: tdli...@multiculturaladvantage.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:38:38 -0700
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe,
Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From Entertainment Weekly, October 9, 2009:
>
> "Jennifer's Body" deadly $6.8 million debut is attributed to Megan Fox's
"sexy-beast" persona proving off-putting to women, without whom a horror
movie don't stand a chance. "The genre is driven by the female audience, and
I don't know that girls relate to her," says the executive. "Megan leads
with pure, raw sexuality, and for girls it's a turn
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
Isn't September when studios "dump" movies into the multiplex that are
considered crap?After the summer season and before the Xmas/Oscar rush.
--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Tracey de Morsella
wrote:
From: Tracey de Morsella
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:55 AM
To more: Leslie Caron ( she had big lips before they ware considered
acceptable) and Natalie Wood. Both considered sex kittens in their day
-Original Message-
From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On
Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:39 PM
To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogro ups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra" ) were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifino...@yahoogro ups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifino...@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From Entertainment Weekly, October 9, 2009:
>
> "Jennifer's Body" deadly $6.8 million debut is attributed to Megan Fox's
"sexy-beast" persona proving off-putting to women, without whom a horror
movie don't stand a chance. "The genre is driven by the female audience, and
I don't know that girls relate to her," says the executive. "Megan leads
with pure, raw sexuality
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
To more: Leslie Caron ( she had big lips before they ware considered
acceptable) and Natalie Wood. Both considered sex kittens in their day
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:39 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From Entertainment Weekly, October 9, 2009:
>
> "Jennifer's Body" deadly $6.8 million debut is attributed to Megan Fox's
"sexy-beast" persona proving off-putting to women, without whom a horror
movie don't stand a chance. "The genre is driven by the female audience, and
I don't know that girls relate to her," says the executive. "Megan leads
with pure, raw sexuality, and for girls it's a turnoff."
>
> Fox's drawing power will be tested again with next summer's western "Jonah
Hex," aimed at her core: young guys.
>
> "If I were cutting the "Hex" trailer," says a studio strategist, "I'd make
sure she was in as much of it as possib
RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
What about Ann Margaret, Ava Gardner, Marilyn Monroe, Angelina Jolie (
before the Anorexia), J-Lo, the blond from Grey's Anatomy, Katherine Heigl,
Sophia Loren, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, Jessica Biel
All of them have been in hits I believe and are considered sexy
Are you saying women reject sexy women. I think we seek to be them. I do
not think the jealousy factor is at work here. I used to love movies with
Hot Kick Ass Broads because I wanted to be one. I was taking notes, I was
buying bustiers, leathers skirts and thigh high boots. (back in the day,
those things were in okay, so stop laughing.
I will probably check out Jennifer's Body on DVD, but my sense is it was
poorly marketed. Fox has some image problems than include she is nothing
but a body and then she star's in a movie called Jennifer's body in which
the previews do not reveal that it is a comedy. Some decided to sell in the
previews a pure slasher horror. If I had not read the reviews, I would have
thought that she decided to play up that she is nothing but a body.
Regarding young guys.. none of the previews showed her looking appealing,
but instead as an exaggerated terrifying her that looked like she might
bite off a guys important part. I knew someone who edited a forum/penthouse
letters publication once, and stuff like was considered a no-no when it came
to targeting mainstream males. She did not look sexy in the previews, and
the previews is what people use to determine whether to go see it. If I
were a young guy who thought she was hot, I would have popped in a
transformers DVD instead, based on those previews
-Original Message-
From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scifino...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kelwyn
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:32 PM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
I defy you to name a Racquel Welch helmed hit (excluding her first, "One
Million Years B.C."). Pam Grier was used and abused (raped and beaten up)in
all her movies before she was allowed to kick triumphant butt. Liz Taylor
is perhaps the exception that proves the rule but she, too, was slapped
around in a number of her iconic roles and the films where she exuded pure
female sexual power ("Cleopatra") were not box office hits.
And, to be clear about this, the article stated females rejected Fox not for
being "too sexy and beautiful" but because of her "pure, raw sexuality,"
which is something else altogether. Barbie is "too sexy and beautiful."
Fox is no Barbie doll.
There is an ongoing dynamic going on but you may ignore it if it suits you.
~rave!
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson wrote:
>
> Did I fall asleep? Since when is the pure horror genre driven by female
audiences?
> And as for women not responding to Fox, is it that she's too sexy and
beautiful for them, or (more likely) that she hasn't displayed a range and
depth that makes them interested in anything she has to say on screen? I
mean, there have been untold numbers of actresses over the years who've been
classified as beautiful and sexy in the extreme, from Liz Taylor to Racquel
Welch, from Pam Grier to Halle Berry. Such women have always found a female
audience, depending on the roles they play.
> I think this is more the script and Fox's one-note facial expressions.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelwyn"
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:39:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Megan Fox's Scary Box Office Problem
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From Entertainment Weekly, October 9, 2009:
>
> "Jennifer's Body" deadly $6.8 million debut is attributed to Megan Fox's
"sexy-beast" persona proving off-putting to women, without whom a horror
movie don't stand a chance. "The genre is driven by the female audience, and
I don't know that girls relate to her," says the executive. "Megan leads
with pure, raw sexuality, and for girls it's a turnoff."
>
> Fox's drawing power will be tested again with next summer's western "Jonah
Hex," aimed at her core: young guys.
>
> "If I were cutting the "Hex" trailer," says a studio strategist, "I'd make
sure she was in as much of it as possible - in compromising positions."
>
> I imagine it would do even better if she could be raped during the movie.
>
> ~(no)rave!
>
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