Re: CSRe: Biocircuits
Hi John If you are referring to emans copper bio-circuits TOOLS FOR TRANSFORMATION in California carries them and the books are available from Borderland press. Best wishes...Byron -Original Message- From: johnphil glades-eg...@webtv.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 10:56 AM Subject: CSRe: Biocircuits A while back we had a thread on biocircuits. Does anyone know a source for these? I found one from New Zealand but haven't gotten a reply from them. Amazon had a book but it is out of print. I'd sure like to follow up on this. Putting biocircuits in search didn't lead anywhere but to New Zealand.John -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSHVAC Parameters
Sounds like you are on the right track. Yes, the current matters. If you try to raise the electrodes up to the highest they will go, you will see that the cs will turn gray and have fallout by the end of a long run. By keeping the electrodes nearer the water surface, the cs stays clear. The lower your electrodes are to the water, the more current you will draw, but the less current density as the water will cover more of the end of the hanging wire. The more current you can push, the more electrode surface needs to be in contact with the water. The electrodes seem to become black when the cs is not very strong. Using seeded ds, my electrodes will not get much black on them. Yes, the water will heat up. I get up to 120 or 125 degrees F. Stirring the water will cause the temp at the surface to be less, and the cs will tend to be clearer, but slower brewing. Also, the deeper your rectangular electrode, the deeper the surface temp stratification, the lower the surface water temp. The depth the the rectangular electrode is part of the temp regulation. Temp is, of course, a factor in the conductivity of the water. Too hot, such as pre-heating the water, will tend to produce a gray cs with fallout. Sounds like you have a balance that works. If you don't get fallout I wouldn't change anything. Jim Dennis Lipter wrote: I am using a 9kv 30ma transformer with a gallon size batch tank (same as CsPro) containing 1/2 gallon of distilled water. At start up the current reads 1 ma and the two wire electrodes (CsPro configuration) quickly become black with no apparent visible fallout on the bottom of the tank. The rectangular electrode develops some black too. In about 15 min the current increases to 29-30ma and stays there for the rest of the run time. At startup the cones of water are large (1/2 - 3/4 inch) and bouncy and after 10 min or so the cones become smaller and calm loosing the bouncy nature. The final product is crystal clear with no visible fallout and strong tyndall. The water gets very hot. Questions: Does current matter in the HVAC process? Should the electrodes become black? Is it normal for the water to heat up? Does it sound like I am on the right track? Dennis Lipter -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSurinary tract infection
A couple years ago, when I started using cs, I read an article by a doctor who injected cs directly into the bladder for a bladder infection. Results were good. Something like an ear syringe can be used to force cs up the urinary tract just like a catheter. Jim Tom Trauberman wrote: Would the injestion of cs along with caffine and large amounts of water aid in the transportation of the cs to the urinary tract? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSFw: escharotic
Ian, I'm very interested in your result with the Escharotic paste. My Mom was just diagnosed with Clark's stage 4 melanoma on her arm and I am clammoring around trying to decide on alternative treatments while the doctors check to see if it has spread, and warm up the chemo equipment. Can you share any other information regarding your moms cancer. Was it Clark's stage 4, I am wondering because you said the doctors are sure it is spreading somewhere. Have you used the capsules also.How long did she have the cancer before you treated it. Do you have any information that the topical treatment may be effective with cancer spreading under the skin in the area? My mom had the tumor on her arm removed, they think they feel another lump nearby under the skin. I'm going to check out the website, but at the moment my computer is acting up and all I can do is send and receive my email Your thoughts are appreciated, Diana. -- From: roesil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSFw: escharotic Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 6:43 PM Another source of Escharotic is Alpha Omega Labs www.altcancer.com I got some paste from there for $49 and only a little of it destroyed a 10 square inch melanoma on my mother's head in less than 24 hours. It had no effect on healthy tissue. The substance was also available in capsules 120 for $29 (a month's supply) There was a nasty wound to heal afterwards but no infection ensued. She suffers more now from the radiation she received than anything else. There may still be mets but the doctors haven't found them yet - they are only 'sure' that it is spreading somewhere. Sincerely Yours, Ian Roe -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Some of the high volt (and even low volt as of late) generators can make a cs without tyndall. There are some on the list that swear by it. Theory being smaller particles will be able to get into cells and kill virus bugs, etc.. What seems to be needed to produce small particle cs is to have a very low current density, which your last experiment seems to have. Most people get in a rush and try to put more current through to get a higher ppm. IMHO, ppm is not a good measure of how effective cs is in bug fighting, but we don't have an agreed upon alternative way to rate cs (that I know of). Heck, it will probably start a war on the list to suggest that ppm is really a bad way to rate effectiveness, we only recently got 'most' on the list to understand the a tds meter cannot tell the ppm of cs. Yes, different generators make different sized particles. That is why I think ppm is a terribly misleading thing. A dime in the bottom of a glass is a very high ppm, but won't cure much. Etc., etc.. Sorry to get off subject. I have both the 10k volt ac setup and a current limiting dc setup with polarity switching 0-35 volts. The dc setup has become my favorite as it is so very controllable. I can shut down at a given voltage draw and can keep my cs with as little or as much tyndall as I like. Current limiting is the greatest. Keep up the good work. Jim Victoria Welch wrote: Hi Everyone, Well blush, there has been an interesting turn of events here as best I can tell. The experiment that I declared failed earlier this morning has taken a twist. Since I had such a pathetic (and unchanging) current flow and NO Tyndal effect (nothing visible to my eyes or anyone else here), I declared it failed and moved on. I modified the code for the controller to change the polarity switching delay from 20 minutes to one minute and uploaded that. I hooked the H-Bridge circuit back together and since there hadn't been any effect I hooked it up to the same container (and DW) I had used for the failed experiment. fully expecting to see the same basic initial current flow I normally have had when starting up using the 27V supply. Surprise! It first looked like the current was 2.77 ma (not an autoranging meter). Humm, think I, this is in the range of Done for a batch. I power down and pull the probes and wipe them off - a smallish amount of medium grey deposit wipes off. Hummm I pick up the glass and take a swig, sure tastes like CS to me. Ok, I turn off the lights (not normally necessary) and hit it with the laser - NO Tyndal effect (this had been running at around 45 ua for 12 hours before I changed over). Now I am really confused. I hook the probes back in and cable them up. Turn on the power and look CLOSELY at the ammeter. Ah, it reads 0.366 ma - a LONG way from done. No Tyndal and a definite taste of CS. It dawns on me that further research is *dead* for me until I get some measurement tools. Something here isn't right... or something is very right. There does seem to be something here to look at, but it is going to take real measurement instrumentation to determine what is happening. I expected that if there was silver in the solution that it would show up as a Tyndal effect (if even dimly). The taste says CS, but the Tyndal effect is simply not present. What I *think* is that I must have an incredibly small particle size ?!?!?!?!? Suddenly I am more confused about this than I was to begin with. Just keeping everyone informed :-). Take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSParallaxinc.com microcontrollers
Thanks, Vikki for the source for you microcontroller. Parallaxinc.com Check out the Motor Mind B. It would seem to be just what the doctor ordered for controlling dc made cs, as long as someone doesn't mind needing a computer to make cs. Jim -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSHVAC Parameters
You mean across a 1 k resistor, in series with your electrode, in the secondary circuit? Brave man! I would have been a little nervous! Of course, certainly, it should be OK, but Murphy is always looking over my shoulder!! What do you think of putting about 9 or 10 megs in there to limit the current to a ma simply and run longer as in LVDC switching? You're actually switching 60 times per second. Chuck Can you imagine a roast aardvark without an apple in its mouth? It's like a martini without the egg On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:47:40 -0400, Dennis Lipter dlip...@accesshub.net wrote: Chuck, With a Fluke digital multimeter. Dennis Lipter Charles King wrote: Dennis, How are you measuring the current? Chuck Bushydo--The way of the shrub. BONSAI! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNewbie tries new method - report. Goddess knows what I have :-).
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:04:08 -0700, Victoria Welch vi...@oz.net wrote: Instead of manually switching this every 20 minutes (not sure where I got that value, maybe Bob?), I took a BASIC Stamp 1 microcontroller and wrote a program that would accomplish this. The electronics appeared, in initial testing to work flawlessly, but some events at the end of the process (I declared a current flow of 3.00 ma to be the end of the process). The value was chosen as it was I was getting from the single polarity LVDC method that I had been using with success(? - no PPM values are available, just between 2.5 and 3.0 ma, the finished product *tastes* like CS I had previously purchased). Damn! It looks like I am going to be pushed into this stamp stuff! I can't ignore it when it keeps turning up every time I turn around. What's the best way to get up to speed? Does Radio Shack have a hobby kit? Is there a general purpose kit? I really don't have much interest in robotics, but here's an app for CS and another list was investigating apps for mind machines. This is very exciting Vikki, congratulations! I suggest you lower your ending current to eliminate the sparkles in your tyndall. I'm not sure, but perhaps you're running into the starved electrode effect described in a past post by Bob Lee I'm inserting a copyI'm sure it will interest you anyway... Hello Ken, Andrew and other paragons of CS, The Starved Electroded was discovered quite by accident while during experiments for constructing current density tables. Any good meters will be satisfactory, however I was using an RS model 174B LCD Digital Auto-ranging multimeter, a couple of RS model 803 LCD Digital Auto-ranging multimeters, a Simpson 260 multimeter and a Calectro model H3-361 multimeter. The RS 174B also measures temperature. The thing to do is get the electrode potential at 13.3% above the electron ionization potential. For the Ag atom the Potentials are ; Ag I7.542v 13.3% over is 8.5v Ag II 21.4v 13.3% over is 23.8v ( in the range of 3 nine volt batteries) Ag III 35.9v 13.3% over is 40.7v I would select a current I wanted to run at,such as 3 ma ( in my case that would be 4.5ua/mm2 of wetted electrode area) and keep the current at 3ma or under during the run. Start the run and let the current build up to the limit you have selected for the experiment. Begin increasing series resistence to the electrodes ,alway keeping the current at 3ma (any current you select). As the conductivity of the CS becomes higher the current will try to rise and you need to keep increasing the series resistance. Monitor the electrode voltage and current all the time and tabulate it as you go. If you don`t have time to stay with it don`t bother to try, as it needs constant monitoring. Every 5 minutes stir the water CCW and record the current before and after stirring. Normally after each stir the current will drop as the CS is dispersed from the vicinity of the electrodes.I use four sets of electrodes, located around the edge of the vessel. My stirring is in the middle of the CS solution. Your tabulation (charting) will look like a series of sawteeth. As the solution becomes saturated and the electrode voltage reaches the target potential a strange thing will happen. Each time you stir the CS the current will INCREASE (instead of decreasing) and you will find that the tabulated sawteeth will be reversed from the previous sawteeth. Each time you stir the saturated CS the solution is increasing (adding to) the energy of the circuit and the current rises momentarily. Once the the sawtooth reversals are evident the current will no longer increase, it becomes self regulating. The CS ppm will level off and remain steady. I usually let it run another 30 minutes to ensure complete saturation. The solution is now saturated, will not accept any more ions. The ionic potential is now 13.3% above the ionization potential. It is maintaining a status quo, the ionic potential is balancing the external potential applied to the electrodes. Under this condition the ionic potential will cause the ppm to begin to rise when external power is removed. The energy stored in the CS being used to continue the CS making process. This was also discovered not too long ago by another of our experimenters. :-) Sometimes I would stop and let the solution set for many hours and start it again to see what would happen. It always started where I had left off. The self ppm rise will only happen after the solution is saturated and at high energy. Bless you Bob Lee Chuck If you don't press enter, nothing happens. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe
Re: CSHVAC Parameters
No 1k resistor! Why would you put a 1k resistor in series? To measure current you simply insert the meter set for AC current in series with the electrodes. Simple, no current sense resistor needed. Why limit the current? Is there a problem with 20-30ma of current? Should I be thinking about a HV current source? How about a vacuum tube current regulator? Dennis Lipter Charles King wrote: You mean across a 1 k resistor, in series with your electrode, in the secondary circuit? Brave man! I would have been a little nervous! Of course, certainly, it should be OK, but Murphy is always looking over my shoulder!! What do you think of putting about 9 or 10 megs in there to limit the current to a ma simply and run longer as in LVDC switching? You're actually switching 60 times per second. Chuck Can you imagine a roast aardvark without an apple in its mouth? It's like a martini without the egg On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:47:40 -0400, Dennis Lipter dlip...@accesshub.net wrote: Chuck, With a Fluke digital multimeter. Dennis Lipter Charles King wrote: Dennis, How are you measuring the current? Chuck Bushydo--The way of the shrub. BONSAI! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNewbie tries new method - report. Goddess knows what I have :-).
Hi Charles Instead of manually switching this every 20 minutes (not sure where I got that value, maybe Bob?), I took a BASIC Stamp 1 microcontroller and wrote a program that would accomplish this. The electronics appeared, in initial testing to work flawlessly, but some events at the end of the process (I declared a current flow of 3.00 ma to be the end of the process). The value was chosen as it was I was getting from the single polarity LVDC method that I had been using with success(? - no PPM values are available, just between 2.5 and 3.0 ma, the finished product *tastes* like CS I had previously purchased). Damn! It looks like I am going to be pushed into this stamp stuff! I can't ignore it when it keeps turning up every time I turn around. Happened to me :-). Simpler than the big boys (8051, 68HC11, etc.) very capable and easy to do (IMO). For things like timers, I like the parts count :-) one. Once you get things prototyped you can (with the BASIC Compiler I have for Pics) just compile your stuff into a Pic (not quite that simple, but not difficult, just takes some time and money :-). The BASIC Stamps are pretty capable all in all, if you can program in BASIC then you probably won't have too much transition time and if you don't BASIC is about as simple as it gets for programming (other issues aside). What's the best way to get up to speed? Does Radio Shack have a hobby kit? Is there a general purpose kit? I really don't have much interest in robotics, but here's an app for CS and another list was investigating apps for mind machines. If Rat Shack sold them I wouldn't be using them. I've heard many times over the years that RS parts are floor sweepings and out-of-spec parts at OUTRAGEOUS prices. The other side of that coin is that they are there and VERY convenient for small parts orders (assuming they have what you need/can use) they may still be somewhat cheaper than shipping... That said we move on :). The place to start looking into these is http://www.parallaxinc.com there is LOTs of good information to be had there. I personally do not like the BS2 and for a lot of things IMO it is overkill. Same with their latest release - forget what it is called, but it is *QUICK*. :-) you might develop an interest in robotics, you never know grin. You can get started for the download time for the manuals and examples and the wear and tear on your printer and the price of the stamp itself. If you can figure out how to make a board to put it on (USE A SOCKET) and build the interface cable, you can get started cheap. The starter kit is around $100 to $150, I forget, but I am sure it is on the web site. Check it out and read the manual and examples (PDF files you can download) to get some idea if you really want to do this to yourself :-). This is very exciting Vikki, congratulations! I'm having fun and hopefully doing myself and my friend something good :-). I suggest you lower your ending current to eliminate the sparkles in your tyndall. I'm setting a new target current of 2ma per your comments and others. Also the person I am making it for says it is STRONG and tastes bad. It doesn't seem so tp me :-). I have not a clue what PPM the solution is, but it tastes like CS :-). I'm not sure, but perhaps you're running into the starved electrode effect described in a past post by Bob Lee I'm inserting a copyI'm sure it will interest you anyway... [ ... ] Thank you very much, I've seen this referenced before. I looked that over and initially I have the deer in the headlights look :-). I'm going to have to study that for a bit to make sense out of it. Maybe it has just been a long day :-). If you have questions on the Stamp, let me know, I'll try to help. I've done several projects with them so I may know a little bit :-). Thanks take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSNew experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
Hi again all, I'm here to probably bore most of the list to death with this technical crap :-). I had thought about this and Mike (our illustrious list owner) provided the final push to get me to try this. The BASIC Stamp (and Pics) are capable of sinking 25ma and sourcing 20ma, which is more than enough current for CS. I was concerned that this is at roughly 5 volts (+/- 10%). So I wired up a stamp, stuck a couple 2K2 resistors from the port pins in series to the probes and cobbled up a short program to do the job. I started this at 2015 my time and it is now an hour later. The initial current flow was 40 uA (micro amps or .040 ma). Now I have 48.8 uA. All other conditions are as I have done in the past - same glass, DW, probe spacing, etc. If this is going to work, it will take a LONG while, I think. Did a couple of things just to see what would happen. attached the probes directly to the port pins - no change in current flow (expected). Immediately moved the jumpers back to the other side of the resistors :-). Tried moving the probes closer together and at around 1/8 (the wires are far from straight :) I got the current flow up to 0.1 ma. Moved those back to the original 2.75 spacing. Not quite sure what to think. First thought is that a higher voltage will get the job done a lot faster :-). Time is not quite of the essense, but there comes a time that is too long. I'm trying to decide whether to let this run overnight or not. May just let it run until I go to bed. Anyones thoughts on this solicited. Thanks take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSOT,humor, Sherlock Holmes
Please enjoy, Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson went on a camping trip. After a good meal and a bottle of wine, they lay down for the night and went to sleep. Some hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful friend awake. Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see. Watson replied, I see millions and millions of stars. What does that tell you? Holmes questioned. Watson pondered for a minute. Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Horologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful and that we are small and insignificant. Meterologically, I suspect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it say to you? Holmes was silent for a minute, then spoke. Watson, you retard. Someone has stolen our tent. Bless you Bob Lee -- oozing on the muggy shore of the gulf coast l...@fbtc.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CS(Fwd) Re: CSNewbie tries new method - report. Goddess knows
--- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:49:31 -0700 From: Victoria Welch vi...@oz.net Organization: Welch Research Laboratories Subject: Re: CSNewbie tries new method - report. Goddess knows what I h Hi Mike, Much appreciate your response! Welcome aboard, Vikki! I haven't had a chance to make your acquaintance before now. Pleased to meet you! I have a long time hobbyist's interest in electronics myself, so I really appreciate your experiments and tinkering. Hopefully they are helpful! Admittedly I am staggering around in the dark, but I feel like I am making some progress. I think what you saw happening was the usual fluffy buildup and dark roughened coating on the neg and pos electrodes, respectively, being dislodged and falling off when the polarity changed. I suspected it had to do with the polarity change, thanks for the confirmation. I think Bob will encourage you to shorten the switching period to only a minute or two, per his experiments. The faster rate doesn't let much buildup occur before the states change so everything that's being driven off the electrodes stays smaller and doesn't have much chance to fall out of suspension. I was totally unsure where to go with this I can run it as low as 1ms (less starup and shutdown delays), I wasn't sure where I got the 20 minute value, but it did seem awfully long. I think the next batch is going to get the one minute treatment - I'll report on that, if not tonight then tomorrow for sure. I have a question: Why are we even worried about H-bridges and relays, anyway? Aren't the logic outputs on a STAMP microcontroller or CMOS logic chip thoroughly capable of sourcing *and* sinking at least a milliamp or two? Thank you for addressing this! I looked at this last night with those very thoughts in mind. On the Basic Stamp (Pic Processor) or most any (if not all) Pics (I usually use the 16F84 to prototype since it is flash ROM) can sink up to 25 ma per pin or source up to 20ma per pin . MORE than enough. The problem (such as I perceived it) was the 5 Volt +/-10% voltage. Now that you have mentioned it, I certainly can loose nothing by trying it :-). Once I can afford instrumentation I will have some idea what I am doing here. my current metrics are relative Tyndal effect and taste. I'm not sure just how ultimately meaningful either of those are :). There's nothing that says you have to use 30 volts. Folks have used everything from a few volts on up with success. The only difference is how quickly the stuff gets made. This is something that had not been clear. I had *assumed* that the ~27V figure was given for some specific reason. I searched for a FAQ that might explain this, but no luck to date :-(. Do you maybe have analog inputs for current monitoring and outputs that also could be tricked to sink/source current if cross connected? There's lots of possibilities there if so. There are tricks that can be used to do things like this, I am considering some of these thing, but trying to get something I can feel confident about before trying to improve things. The basic 27V, 2 gator clipleads and 2 pieces of silver wire (with either a resistor, LED or incandescent bulb for current limiting (or a carefully watched ammeter :-)) have worked far better than I would have expected, althought I still have no PPM values that I can relate my results to someone else with. Much to do and much to learn :-). In the system I've been running lately, I limit the current to only a couple of milliamps or so, to keep current density low enough to keep the particle size down, per Trem Williams suggestions. Some one suggested that the 2.5 ma rate was good somewhere early on, so I have been sticking with that with an upper limit of 3ma. I think my next target current flow will go down to two (assuming I can still taste it or get a Tyndal effect that looks something like what I have been getting). I use a simple current limiting resistor of a few kilohms in series with my 30 volt supply. I'm not switching polarity at all, but that would be the next step. This is on my mind as well, is there a real *point* to trying to improve on that. I always try to KISS and avoid creeping elegance :-). Being a tinkerer at heart makes life interesting sometimes :-). So why not toss a couple of resistors in series with two logic pins that, combined, limit the output current to a milliamp or two when they're cross-connected through the cell? Then switch 'em every minute and see what you get. As soon as I finish this missive :-)! Try pulse modulating the two digital outputs with R/C networks on them to get an adjustable voltage to control cell current. Might be a problem with the switching transient, but, hey, who says you can't program a delay to let the current drop to zero before powering up the other side? Noted and filed :-). Of course your analog outputs could do
CStime frame
I will be getting my silver wire today or tomorrow and making my first real batch of CS. I want to know how long to run it and if anyone knows how many ppm it will be. thanks. By the way, the batch I made with the silver dimes made my sick stomach better and I also rubbed it on a skin rash on my hand that I thought was exczema and it cleared up within two days! I am trying it on a couple other skin problem I have and will post results. Janine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSurinary tract infection
Would the injestion of cs along with caffine and large amounts of water aid in the transportation of the cs to the urinary tract? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
Hello Vikki, Believe me, the experts on this list no doubt view your arrival as they would a delicious cold drink on a hot and humid day. Heretofore they have had to put up all too often with me, a right-brained, mathmatically challenged, technoretard if there ever was one. You must be their cosmic reward... Even a electro-blip such as I can appreciate the quickness and facility with which you approach your experiments, although my brain bails out on the details. You're a fun read, anyway, because of your obvious delight with the experiments... Welcome! Taylor I'm here to probably bore most of the list to death with this technical crap :-). -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSIntroduction and some questions
Hi Everybody, My name is Susan. (I just joined digest) I have a three year old with severe allergies/eczema and Candida yeast overgrowth. Thank goodness he has only been on one full round of antibiotics in his short life. I did have them pushed on us two other times, I gave them to him for a day and 1/2 and stopped. (that may not have been too smart either.) Anyway, his tests showed he had ZERO Bifdus n his system and he was low on the others. The problem is his skin is always in danger of becoming infected. Lately it looked like he had a staph infection so for the first time I used CS. It has been 5 days and he looks SO much better! I have some concerns though. These are all things I have read on the internet. 1. His bottle says 10 ppm. Anything over 3-5 CAN kill off the good 'bugs' in his system? 2.This can cause cancer 3.This can cause argyria 4.can cause neurological problems. 5.I was also told that the fact that this cs did not promote resistant bacteria did not make sense. Also when I spoke of this on another list they wanted to see 'proper 'studies. Believe me, I have lost most of my faith in Doctors and pharmaceuticals so I think this CS is a better option than antibiotics. I just need to do more research. Are there any good sites or books out there that are not just by people selling this? Thanks so much!! Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSIntroduction and some questions
1. His bottle says 10 ppm. Anything over 3-5 CAN kill off the good 'bugs' in his system? I think this was just addressed on-list a couple of days ago. Since I just rejoined the list, you'll have to get someone other than me to fill you in on how to handle this. 2.This can cause cancer Breathing causes cancer. (smart-alek answer) I'd like to see a proper study indicating miniscule amounts of silver can cause cancer. 3.This can cause argyria I'd like to see a proper study indicating miniscule amounts of silver can cause argyria. 4.can cause neurological problems. I'd like to see a proper study indicating miniscule amounts of silver can cause neurological problems. 5.I was also told that the fact that this cs did not promote resistant bacteria did not make sense. Well, last I heard, silver works by chemically interacting with the enzymes used by microbes in respiratory activities, effectively suffocating them. It's roughly equivalent to taking 16 politicians (no offense to anyone unless you are a scummy politician) and holding their heads under water. Is there a chance one of them can continue normal respiratory functions under water? If so, that politician could survive and pass on the trait to its offspring. If not, then there's no chance of one surviving to pass on that survivability trait. (oversimplified science lesson ends) Also when I spoke of this on another list they wanted to see 'proper' studies. Here's a site I found via yahoo - http://www.svpvril.com/FDAag.html - that has a substantial bibliography on the research done involving silver. (you have to click on the bibliography link to get there) Rejoice in the small steps!! Michael firew...@juno.com webMaster of The Outlands WebStead at: http://members.tripod.com/~Outlands and lord of Far Reaches Cot-hold ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSBeck's book
Andrew, (or anyone else) Where can I get Dr Beck's book take back your power ? thanks, Janine -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSIntroduction and some questions
Susan, i'm so happy for you and your little one. You have started on a good path for the health of both of you. CS is a great helper for just about everything. Colloidal silver can't ever turn anyone blue either taken internally or used externally. Other silver preps TAKEN INTERNALLY can. But you sure have to take a lot of even them to do that. As you continue to gain info from various sources, you will be glad to learn about Vit. C to PREVENT ear infections from getting started. It prevents a lot of other problems too. But if the little one gets one, a few drops of CS in the ear will help alot. Best Wishes Susan A. wrote: Hi Everybody, My name is Susan. (I just joined digest) I have a three year old with severe allergies/eczema and Candida yeast overgrowth. Thank goodness he has only been on one full round of antibiotics in his short life. I did have them pushed on us two other times, I gave them to him for a day and 1/2 and stopped. (that may not have been too smart either.) Anyway, his tests showed he had ZERO Bifdus n his system and he was low on the others. The problem is his skin is always in danger of becoming infected. Lately it looked like he had a staph infection so for the first time I used CS. It has been 5 days and he looks SO much better! I have some concerns though. These are all things I have read on the internet. 1. His bottle says 10 ppm. Anything over 3-5 CAN kill off the good 'bugs' in his system? 2.This can cause cancer 3.This can cause argyria 4.can cause neurological problems. 5.I was also told that the fact that this cs did not promote resistant bacteria did not make sense. Also when I spoke of this on another list they wanted to see 'proper 'studies. Believe me, I have lost most of my faith in Doctors and pharmaceuticals so I think this CS is a better option than antibiotics. I just need to do more research. Are there any good sites or books out there that are not just by people selling this? Thanks so much!! Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
cs and braces also age spots
Does anyone know if it is ok to swish cs as a mouthwash if you have metal braces? I know you aren't supposed to stir it with a metal spoon, but are braces ok? Re my husband's liver or age spots They haven't gone totally away. But some have-not the big ones though. But they are much lighter in color. I think maybe some bug found the spot to be weakened skin and took the opportunity to take up residence. But the cs has made it a former choice residence (it was becoming a palace). We are now using soaked cotton taped on overnite on a couple of spots to see what happens. Don't know about that yet. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: New experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
A higher power op-amp circuit would do this same thing. I've never used your H-Bridge configuration. An op amp that can handle + - 40 volts or so at 100 ma or so would handle this easily, but you could use a standard op amp at hooked up at +/- 15 volts or so feeding a pair of output buffer transistors that are hooked up to a higher voltage. This is a standard audio power amp configuration. The only difference is that you are working at essentially D.C. voltages, which makes it a lot easier. Is this enough info to get you started?? Rex -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSmold/cs experiments
Hey everyone, Help!! In order to figure out if my cs is working I decided to try the mold test. I grew some nasty long hairy mold on a piece of bread and then dropped a few drops of each of several of my batches of CS on it in different spots -- along with a test spot of the storebought cs which cured my sinus infection. NOTHING HAPPENED?! And not just for my homemede cs - which has good tyndall and is either clear or golden. That mold is sitting up there mocking me right now. But the thing that makes me really suspect this test is that my cat got a terrible abcess over the weekend and a high fever -- I had no idea what to do and vet wasn't open so I dosed her orally and in the eyes and by rubbing a cs/msm mixture on the lump -- and it seemed to bring down her fever and the lump definitely got smaller. And she was in such bad shape that the vet took an ounce of pus out when he drained the abcess - so I don't think it was resolving itself naturally - I think the cs did it. And this was combos of the same cs that is not affecting the mold. Comments? Answers? Is there a better way to test? Thanks, Katarina -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Hi Everyone, Well blush, there has been an interesting turn of events here as best I can tell. The experiment that I declared failed earlier this morning has taken a twist. Since I had such a pathetic (and unchanging) current flow and NO Tyndal effect (nothing visible to my eyes or anyone else here), I declared it failed and moved on. I modified the code for the controller to change the polarity switching delay from 20 minutes to one minute and uploaded that. I hooked the H-Bridge circuit back together and since there hadn't been any effect I hooked it up to the same container (and DW) I had used for the failed experiment. fully expecting to see the same basic initial current flow I normally have had when starting up using the 27V supply. Surprise! It first looked like the current was 2.77 ma (not an autoranging meter). Humm, think I, this is in the range of Done for a batch. I power down and pull the probes and wipe them off - a smallish amount of medium grey deposit wipes off. Hummm I pick up the glass and take a swig, sure tastes like CS to me. Ok, I turn off the lights (not normally necessary) and hit it with the laser - NO Tyndal effect (this had been running at around 45 ua for 12 hours before I changed over). Now I am really confused. I hook the probes back in and cable them up. Turn on the power and look CLOSELY at the ammeter. Ah, it reads 0.366 ma - a LONG way from done. No Tyndal and a definite taste of CS. It dawns on me that further research is *dead* for me until I get some measurement tools. Something here isn't right... or something is very right. There does seem to be something here to look at, but it is going to take real measurement instrumentation to determine what is happening. I expected that if there was silver in the solution that it would show up as a Tyndal effect (if even dimly). The taste says CS, but the Tyndal effect is simply not present. What I *think* is that I must have an incredibly small particle size ?!?!?!?!? Suddenly I am more confused about this than I was to begin with. Just keeping everyone informed :-). Take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: New experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
Vikki; To get past the earlier start blues add about 10- 12% of a previous batch of CS. Never discover America twice. The current change you see is typical of polarity reveresal. Don't know why but I accept it. Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSRe: Biocircuits
A while back we had a thread on biocircuits. Does anyone know a source for these? I found one from New Zealand but haven't gotten a reply from them. Amazon had a book but it is out of print. I'd sure like to follow up on this. Putting biocircuits in search didn't lead anywhere but to New Zealand.John -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSnew to silver
Liz Pavek wrote: Howard: I hate to burst the CS bubble on jock itch, but actually, plain old peroxide works faster and better. It will clear up a patch in 24 hours or so. If the itch is in a crease, just put a cotton puff saturated in peroxide in the crease on top of the rash. If the rash is located in a more open area, put a bandaid or gauze pad over the patch (depending on its size) and soak with peroxide. Usually, the fungus that causes this is anaerobic, and the presence of an oxygen-saturated solution is more than it can handle. Good luck. Liz LIZ: Thanks, good of you to respond. Your suggestion is quite logical, especially considering the anaerobic thing. Now why didn't I think of that??? Yet another case of big BIZ hiding the simpler truths so they, in this case, can foist Tinactin, et al, (expensive ineffective) onto an unsuspecting public! I believe I HAVE seen some improvement with hi-falutin store-bought CS, which I applied with cotton ball 2-3 times daily for only 2 daysbut was still dubious. More later Thanks Liz all list folks Howard C. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSmold/cs experiments
Hi Katarina, I had a similar experience... I had a sponge with definite mold or mildew spots in it. I dropped some CS onto it, and saw just about no change. Ok, a little. I thought I had goofed in my CS production. Then, I decided to soak the sponge in a pool of CS. Well, what happened is that the black circular spots of mold morphed, and the sponge became a plum-y shade of pink, all over. I used some of the CS on an infected area that my son had, and it cleared up nicely. He used some on a wart (per list advice - I swear this place is priceless) and the wart has slowly reduced itself. So, I'm thinking that when I put a few drops of the CS on the mold, I expected it to act like clorox, and respond immediately, and return to it's former color (which was white). While, in fact, the sponge had to soak in CS to react, and the reaction color must be specific to CS, just as the bleaching and turning white is to clorox. Worth .02 maybe, Taylor And this was combos of the same cs that is not affecting the mold. Comments? Answers? Is there a better way to test? Thanks, Katarina -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS
Yep! I emailed her old fake blue Rosey asking what it was exactly that she took--no response and that was last January 1999. And we are assuming Rosemary is a real person--if you've been to Quackwatch and read their nonsense--Rosemary could be a front for anyone wanting to discourage CS use. Susan L In a message dated 99-08-22 17:14:07 EDT, you write: Good old Rosemary again. I believe someone on this list said that they had emailed Rosey for her details and at that point it had been 8 months prior and they had never had an answer from her yet. Talk about Quackwatch - she didn't even take CS but that is what they are blaming her condition onseems to me someone should be questioning her. Isn't it odd that so many people are taking her story at face value and thinking WE are the nuts? Pam -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Hi Diane, I expected that if there was silver in the solution that it would show up as a Tyndal effect (if even dimly). The taste says CS, but the Tyndal effect is simply not present. What I *think* is that I must have an incredibly small particle size ?!?!?!?!? Suddenly I am more confused about this than I was to begin with. Just keeping everyone informed :-). I am impressed at your experiment anyway. Where do you get one of these Basic Stamps and how do you program them? The people that make them have a web site at http://www.parallaxinc.com Lots of good information there! I don't work for them, I'm just a quite happy customer. I recommend that people start out with the Basic Stamp 1 (BS1 or BS1IC, I think the product id is?!). I found the BS2 to be sensitive (well, I think so, others may argue that :) and manged to blow one up while accidentally plugging in the communications cable wrong. $49 + carrier board + shipping down the tube in microseconds :-). Yes, I was probably more careless than I should have been, but things like these happen and I have yet to blow up a BS1 with all the stuff I have done with them :-). The BS1 should do you for a long time, I've had mine for over three years now and still find them quite useful for 90+% of the stuff I want to do :-). The only problem I have had with these to date is that one of them has a blown port pin (the other seven function just fine) and I am currently using that particular controller for the experiment with the H-Bridge. I would not doubt that something in one of the MANY projects I have used that for I did wong or slipped or something. Very robust little beasts :-) Your desires and milage may vary :-). Programming them is done in a BASIC like language, most people have been exposed to that at some point in their education and it is a VERY easy language to learn. The stuff you use on the stamp is a pretty small subset of other BASICS. Further there a LOTS of example applications for this out there and you can find things that sorta do what you want and borrow circuits and ideas from those to do what you want to do, that is how I started with them. They are by no means the be-all-end-all of microcontrollers, but for a lot of things they are far more than adequate. More importantly, they are easy and relatively cheap to get started with. If you have an internet connection you can download the manual and applications examples and even give your printer a good workout and print them. If you are handy, you can even build the interface cable, the specifications are in the manual. At that point you need a board of some type to mount them on (I prefer to use the protoboards until I get things worked out enough to make a board for it), the stamp and a 9V battery and then load the software (editor / interface to the stamp) connect up the cable and you are off to work :-). Figuring out how to make them do what you want to do in terms of external circuitry takes longer :-). Hope this helps! If you have other questions, I'll try to answer them. Take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Victoria Welch wrote: Hi Diane, Hope this helps! If you have other questions, I'll try to answer them. Thanks. I appreciate the information. How do you program the stamp? What is the input method? (I'm picturing an itty bitty keyboard but that can't be, can it? ;-)) From what I gather, a basic stamp is a small board with some electronic components. Diane -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSFw: escharotic
Hi, There is a product I get form a naturopath in AZ., called Indian Mud. Very much like Black salve, but better. It's truly amazing stuff. Not only pulls the tumor out, but draws cancer from other parts of the body out with it. Since skin cancer has long tentacles, it is hard to really get it all with surgery. This stuff pulls the tentacles out. I've seen it work and personally used it. Even my MD was impressed. If interested in more info, let me know. Kass -Original Message- From: fedtol...@worldnet.att.net fedtol...@worldnet.att.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 11:08 AM Subject: Re: CSFw: escharotic Ian, I'm very interested in your result with the Escharotic paste. My Mom was just diagnosed with Clark's stage 4 melanoma on her arm and I am clammoring around trying to decide on alternative treatments while the doctors check to see if it has spread, and warm up the chemo equipment. Can you share any other information regarding your moms cancer. Was it Clark's stage 4, I am wondering because you said the doctors are sure it is spreading somewhere. Have you used the capsules also.How long did she have the cancer before you treated it. Do you have any information that the topical treatment may be effective with cancer spreading under the skin in the area? My mom had the tumor on her arm removed, they think they feel another lump nearby under the skin. I'm going to check out the website, but at the moment my computer is acting up and all I can do is send and receive my email Your thoughts are appreciated, Diana. -- From: roesil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSFw: escharotic Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 6:43 PM Another source of Escharotic is Alpha Omega Labs www.altcancer.com I got some paste from there for $49 and only a little of it destroyed a 10 square inch melanoma on my mother's head in less than 24 hours. It had no effect on healthy tissue. The substance was also available in capsules 120 for $29 (a month's supply) There was a nasty wound to heal afterwards but no infection ensued. She suffers more now from the radiation she received than anything else. There may still be mets but the doctors haven't found them yet - they are only 'sure' that it is spreading somewhere. Sincerely Yours, Ian Roe -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSAlas, goodbye!
Hi All, I've come to a conclusion. I've made a decision. I enjoy this list too much. I love all you characters and I learn. I love you so much that I've delayed making this decision... It is time I should be going... I've promised to help build a new candida website, I've got to study digestion pH, I've got treatments to study and try. I want to beat this candida into submission before my son lives with it too much longer and it threatens to run, if not ruin, his life. I know, you just get me up to speed on making the stuff (finally!), you just get my testimonials going, and I up and leave. Well, I'll remember you. When I've got exciting testimonials, I'll write them to you. If I go on the 8 oz of CS a day candida treatment and I'm dancing in the streets about the results, I'll just dance right on over here. Thanks to all of you for your infinite patience with me, the funny tag lines I love so much, and for the caring sharing of alternative treatments. Please know that if you see some exciting treatment on the list, I'd love to receive a forward of it. Take care, all. One day you will be a footnote in the saving of the world. At least the medical world. With every good wish, and love, Taylor -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
RE: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS
Many months ago I attempted a dialog with the Quackwatcher. He ducked most of my relevant questions. I tried a dialog with Rosemary, the BB, but she promised citations which never materialized with repeated nudging. James Osbourne, Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: sjlan...@aol.com [SMTP:sjlan...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 12:24 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS Yep! I emailed her old fake blue Rosey asking what it was exactly that she took--no response and that was last January 1999. And we are assuming Rosemary is a real person--if you've been to Quackwatch and read their nonsense--Rosemary could be a front for anyone wanting to discourage CS use. Susan L In a message dated 99-08-22 17:14:07 EDT, you write: Good old Rosemary again. I believe someone on this list said that they had emailed Rosey for her details and at that point it had been 8 months prior and they had never had an answer from her yet. Talk about Quackwatch - she didn't even take CS but that is what they are blaming her condition onseems to me someone should be questioning her. Isn't it odd that so many people are taking her story at face value and thinking WE are the nuts? Pam -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Hi Diane, [ ... ] How do you program the stamp? What is the input method? (I'm picturing an itty bitty keyboard but that can't be, can it? ;-)) No :-), the interface cable plugs into the printer port of your PC and then into the stamp. You use the editor to edit your code. The editor will also upload your code into the stamp. From what I gather, a basic stamp is a small board with some electronic components. Yes, the carrier holds all the parts (the pre-programmed pic, an EEPROM, a regulator and some other glue components) that make up the BS1 System. It is sorta-kinda like a SIMM with regular through hole IC pins on it. There are pictures of it on the parallax web site. Hope this helps! Take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Hi Jim, Some of the high volt (and even low volt as of late) generators can make a cs without tyndall. There are some on the list that swear by it. Theory being smaller particles will be able to get into cells and kill virus bugs, etc.. What seems to be needed to produce small particle cs is to have a very low current density, which your last experiment seems to have. Agree, my problem is, now apparently other than taste, there seems to be no way other than PPM to have any metric at all. Most people get in a rush and try to put more current through to get a higher ppm. IMHO, ppm is not a good measure of how effective cs is in bug fighting, but we don't have an agreed upon alternative way to rate cs (that I know of). Heck, it will probably start a war on the list to suggest that ppm is really a bad way to rate effectiveness, we only recently got 'most' on the list to understand the a tds meter cannot tell the ppm of cs. [ ... ] Understand. I have both the 10k volt ac setup and a current limiting dc setup with polarity switching 0-35 volts. The dc setup has become my favorite as it is so very controllable. I can shut down at a given voltage draw and can keep my cs with as little or as much tyndall as I like. Current limiting is the greatest. This is my next approach. With the equipment I have, my next attempt will be to measure the resistance and take it from there. Keep up the good work. Well, at the moment I am pretty discouraged in that I can establish no reasonable metric for what I have / am doing. I do take heart in that this seems to be reasonably simple to produce *something* that will most likely help. When I can afford decent test instrumentation, perhaps I will get serious about it again. In the process I will continue to play :-). I suppose I could purchase one (or more :) of the units out on the net, but I am a tinkerer at heart :-) not to mention pretty broke at the moment :-) :-(. It seems to me that unless you know what you have and are somehow able to communicate effective dosage (at least as well as the conventional medical establishment can) that this will remain a country remedy, which seems a real shame when it certainly *seems* to be quite effective against a number of nasties. Thanks take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSParallaxinc.com microcontrollers
Hi Jim, Thanks, Vikki for the source for you microcontroller. Parallaxinc.com Glad to help! Check out the Motor Mind B. It would seem to be just what the doctor ordered for controlling dc made cs, as long as someone doesn't mind needing a computer to make cs. :-) it is on my list :-). I don't mind the computer, it seems to me that not using one makes for a LOT of discrete components :-). Take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSAlas, goodbye!
Oh Lord, V, Yes, I am. How do I get there? Thanks, Taylor Hi Taylor, Are you interested in the PH list (If you didn't already sign up)? Should start in fall... ~^^V^^~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Vikki, Now it might be time to take what you've made and try a few things with it. Got any little topical things to try it on? Bumps, burns, rashes, pimples, etc? Anybody at your house got a sore throat? Cut (or buy) two flowers, trim their stems, and put 'em in separate but identical vases. Put distilled water in one and DW and CS in the other. Watch. I'd wager that at least a week later, after adding enough water to keep the levels up, you'll have one beautiful cut flower and another that's a mess. Guess which is which? Finally, send a couple samples to Bob B. or through a local environmental lab. Ask 'em to measure for concentration of silver in clean water. If you've got a measurable ppm and little or no tyndall you may have gone direct to the top of the line results others here have arrived at rather recently. Things that rival the HVAC systems that have been such reliable and worthy devices for a long while. (And, for speed of production, still can't be beat.) You're right that we need to quantify things. That's been the bugaboo all along. But, I also know that you understand that even 3 batteries and some alligator clips are good enough! Neat, neat stuff! Don't let it go. grin Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSAlas, goodbye!
Godspeed, Taylor. Folks will come and go from the list. I'm glad you found help here. I know you'll send folks our way and I hope we'll hear from you again. One of our hopes has to be that we'll eventually lose folks because they'll be too darn busy living their healthy lives to give us the time. g I know you haven't gotten quite there yet, but I hope you can see it in your future. Thanks for sharing your journey with us. Be well! Mike D. Hi All, I've come to a conclusion. I've made a decision. I enjoy this list too much. I love all you characters and I learn. I love you so much that I've delayed making this decision... It is time I should be going... I've promised to help build a new candida website, I've got to study digestion pH, I've got treatments to study and try. I want to beat this candida into submission before my son lives with it too much longer and it threatens to run, if not ruin, his life. I know, you just get me up to speed on making the stuff (finally!), you just get my testimonials going, and I up and leave. Well, I'll remember you. When I've got exciting testimonials, I'll write them to you. If I go on the 8 oz of CS a day candida treatment and I'm dancing in the streets about the results, I'll just dance right on over here. Thanks to all of you for your infinite patience with me, the funny tag lines I love so much, and for the caring sharing of alternative treatments. Please know that if you see some exciting treatment on the list, I'd love to receive a forward of it. Take care, all. One day you will be a footnote in the saving of the world. At least the medical world. With every good wish, and love, Taylor [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSThe Issue of PPM
In my booklet Colloidal Silver by Zane Baranowski he reports that the concentration necessary to sterilize water contaminated with pathogenic bacteria is between 0.04 and 0.2ppm. Perhaps when taken internally, higher concentrations in the 3-5ppm range are advisable. He goes on to emphasize that particle size is much more important than ppm when assessing the quality of product. Dennis Lipter -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: Biocircuits
Try Tools for Exploration. Why don't you make your own? Dennis Lipter johnphil wrote: A while back we had a thread on biocircuits. Does anyone know a source for these? I found one from New Zealand but haven't gotten a reply from them. Amazon had a book but it is out of print. I'd sure like to follow up on this. Putting biocircuits in search didn't lead anywhere but to New Zealand.John -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: cs and braces
How much CS did you add the the laundry? michael wrote: Henry Reed asked, Does anyone know if it is ok to swish CS as a mouthwash if you have metal braces? I have a partial plate that I would soak in ??ppm CS and I found that it would discolor the metal. How this would work with braces I suppose would be the same. Now if there is a reaction that would alter the charged particles, I don't know, but I would hope someone would answer your question. -- I found that putting CS in the laundry rinse cycle and soaking must kill bacteria as my BO shirts no longer have an oder. I did not use soap or softener and used cold water. BTW the clothes came out clean also. michael -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
Victoria Welch wrote: Hi Diane, [ ... ] How do you program the stamp? What is the input method? (I'm picturing an itty bitty keyboard but that can't be, can it? ;-)) No :-), the interface cable plugs into the printer port of your PC and then into the stamp. You use the editor to edit your code. The editor will also upload your code into the stamp. From what I gather, a basic stamp is a small board with some electronic components. Yes, the carrier holds all the parts (the pre-programmed pic, an EEPROM, a regulator and some other glue components) that make up the BS1 System. It is sorta-kinda like a SIMM with regular through hole IC pins on it. There are pictures of it on the parallax web site. Hope this helps! Very much, thank you, Vicki. Not having seen one of these stamps, it was kind of difficult to picture one. I'll go to the website and check them out. I appreciate your help. Diane -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSnew to silver
On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:43:42 +0100, Howard Calderon pemp...@clinic.net wrote: Has anyone out there experienced success with topical application to what is commonly called jock itch? And, if so, what ppm of CS should be used for this? When you put together your 3 battery generator, make a glassful in 45 minutes. Put half in a spray bottle for your bathroom. Use as needed underarm, crotch, feet, hair, etc. The only thing keeping you from relief is inertia. Chuck Is the glass half empty, half full, or twice as large as it needs to be? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSurinary tract infection
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:20:20 -0400, Jim j...@glol.net wrote: A couple years ago, when I started using cs, I read an article by a doctor who injected cs directly into the bladder for a bladder infection. Results were good. Something like an ear syringe can be used to force cs up the urinary tract just like a catheter. Jim Ow! Same effect as Dennis's razorblade of life! (Shudder) Chuck Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:34:07 EDT, skyl...@aol.com wrote: Believe me, the experts on this list no doubt view your arrival as they would a delicious cold drink on a hot and humid day. Heretofore they have had to put up all too often with me, a right-brained, mathmatically challenged, technoretard if there ever was one. Yeah but, At least you're easy to get along with Chuck Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't teach eight cats to pull a sled. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSIntroduction and some questions
On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:43:58 -0400 (EDT), jsuen...@webtv.net (Susan A.) wrote: Also when I spoke of this on another list they wanted to see 'proper 'studies. Believe me, I have lost most of my faith in Doctors and pharmaceuticals so I think this CS is a better option than antibiotics. I just need to do more research. Are there any good sites or books out there that are not just by people selling this? Thanks so much!! Susan Susan, go to http://www.rarebooks.net/beck/ Much there on CS. Chuck Cogito Ergo Spud--I think, therefore I yam -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSBad tasting CS, can it be mixed with...
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:09:23 -0700, Victoria Welch vi...@oz.net wrote: The person I am making CS for thinks it tastes awful. If anyone else feels this way and has found something to mix it with to solve the problem I would sure appreciate hearing from you about what is acceptable to use. I am not sure what might ruin the CS. Thanks take carem Vikki. Unless you're trying to get large quantities of strong CS into them, I would think one or two tblsns in 8 oz of water (Duh?) would be reasonable. Or orange juice, or grapefruit juice, or ginger ale. Don't forget, the commercial people are selling it in 2 and 4 oz bottles, expecting you to use eyedropper doses. This stuff is so benign, it is taken by the waterglassful by some, 'cause we can afford it now. Chuck Cannibals don't eat clowns 'cause they taste funny! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
csmold/cs experiments
Hi Katarina, CS does work wonders on cat abcesses and you're right, they don't resolve themselves. For CS to have the fastest effect, it needs to come into direct contact with the depth of the wound. I know that sounds totally rude, but cats heal from the inside out if there is a scab over an abcess preventing it from draining or medication from getting in, it just keeps getting worse. When my cat gets those nasty things, I (here goes!) pick the scab, drain the wound as completely as I can clean the wound with peroxide. Then I use a plastic feeding syringe (no needle: small animal baby bird type) to insert as much CS as the wound will hold. Then I put CS in his drinking water for about 4-7days. The last 3 times I've tried this, he's not gone off his feed is fine in about 3 days. When there is no more swelling around the wound, you know it's gone. You can also tell by the temperature around that spot. It's pretty warm while there is an infection under the skin. Heather -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSBad tasting CS, can it be mixed with...
Hi Charles, The person I am making CS for thinks it tastes awful. If anyone else [ ... ] Unless you're trying to get large quantities of strong CS into them, I would think one or two tblsns in 8 oz of water (Duh?) would be reasonable. Or orange juice, or grapefruit juice, or ginger ale. Don't forget, the commercial people are selling it in 2 and 4 oz bottles, expecting you to use eyedropper doses. This stuff is so benign, it is taken by the waterglassful by some, 'cause we can afford it now. Thanks for the info! Yes, at the moment I am interested in getting large doses into her, worse I have not a clue as to what I actually have. The stuff with the good tyndal and a couple mA of current and the stuff with no tyndal with 50 uA both taste strong to me :-). Difference is that I do not find it offensive to the taste, odd perhaps, but not offensive... I've passed this on! Thankks take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSHELP - GET ME OFF OF HERE
We are going on vacation and I don't want my mail box filled up with CS stuff. I have tried sending messages to the proper place with the word unsubscribe, but here we still are. PLEASE, SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO TURN THIS THING OFF FOR A WHILE Thanks, Alice Don't know where your requests got lost, Alice, but I'll be taking care of your unsubscription manually in a minute. This should be about the last message you see. Have a GREAT vacation! Mike D. PS. Anybody that has problems like these can always e-mail me at my id.net address as it shows in the footer at the bottom of all these messages. I check mail frequently most of the time. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSnew to silver
Hi Howard, Someone on the list recently kyboshed the use of the clear crystal for use as a deodorant/bacteria control for use underarms jock itch area because it contained the 'no no' aluminium! This was fairly shattering to me as I have used it successfully for years after recommendations from fringe health experts...Anyway, I started to use CS-(5-10ppm), and it works well as a deodorant. Unfortunately it caused me very uncomfortable rashes which in my opinion are caused by it's astringent properties!? So, be a try everything at least once, I used it in combination with a cheap supply of sorbelene vitamin E combination lotion and it seems to work. i.e.. keeps the area moist which normally should be a great media for the growth of bacteria. The CS seems to keep that under control because voila, no smelly armpits - may work with jock itch too!! I was hoping to get more info on what a wetting agent called MSM is to give it a try, but the list has run fairly dead on this one. Maybe someone else will pick it up. Rob - Original Message - From: Howard Calderon pemp...@clinic.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: 26 August 1999 4:43 PM Subject: CSnew to silver Hello Silver list folks: I am brand new to the list and have a question. Has anyone out there experienced success with topical application to what is commonly called jock itch? And, if so, what ppm of CS should be used for this? I am still buying cs at the health food store at this early stage. Can't be sure which cs personal generator to buy yet-want the most effective unit for the money; still deciding and reviewing all the offers on the NET. Thanks alot to all of you Howard -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
- Original Message - From: Victoria Welch vi...@oz.net snip Seems like the 0.054W power factor might be considered the minimum to start forcing the silver into the solution (ignoring, for the moment the resistance of the solution). 5V x 0.40 = 0.0002W (the starting current from the raw output from the microcontroller) - a long way from 0.00729. Not sure just what this means, but I think it is a good indicator of required minimum voltage?! Silver ions will enter the water at any potential above 0.8 volts. Of course at this voltage (power factor) generation is painfully slow. A good compromise is to use relatively high voltage to overcome the high resistance of DW in the begining stages and then to lower the voltage as the process procedes. Limiting the current does this as you know. Deciding on the current limit value is a compromise between speed of reaction and quality of product. Low current values allow for a clear colloid at high concentrations. The Tyndal effect of well controlled colloids is little, if at all during generation, but does gain in intensity after the power is withdrawn, reaching maximum intensity about 24 hrs later. The concentration may also increase during this time. snip Sigh, I get really tempted to just shelve experimentation with this until I can afford to come up with some test gear that will give me PPM metrics with some degree of accuracy, until I can do that, I just keep feeling that these experiments are ultimately meaningless, taste and Tyndal are just too relative to communicate accuracy. Indeed. But you can work out the starting and finishing resistance of the solution from the results I posted. About 240K dropping to about 20K at 10 ppm. This could be used as a ball park figure (extrapolated to your own set up) for judging ppm or at least a consistant finishing point. A question: How would one go about turning off the power to the electrodes at a specific resistance as measured by voltage and current draw. Further, would it be possible to input starting resistance (calibrate as zero or some other nominal value) and then switch off at some other particular resistance. Anyone? There are ways to do this, I've had a couple of thoughts (inexpensive) on the matter but until I get the basics down I'm leaving that alone :-). There are industrial sensors and methodogies that will do it, but they are not cheap :-). One of the thoughts is to use the pot statement from the stamp, it is normally used to read a variable resistor returning a value from 0 to 255. I'm not sure how this would work, it would require some experimentation. Much appreciate the response! Thanks take care, Vikki. Thank you too. Ivan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Comments solicited!
Hello Ivan, Thanks for the response! [ ... ] Silver ions will enter the water at any potential above 0.8 volts. Of course at this voltage (power factor) generation is painfully slow. A good compromise is to use relatively high voltage to overcome the high resistance of DW in the begining stages and then to lower the voltage as the process procedes. Limiting the current does this as you know. Deciding on the current limit value is a compromise between speed of reaction and quality of product. Low current values allow for a clear colloid at high concentrations. The Tyndal effect of well controlled colloids is little, if at all during generation, but does gain in intensity after the power is withdrawn, reaching maximum intensity about 24 hrs later. The concentration may also increase during this time. I keep checking the 5V batch I did last night, still tastes like CS but has NO Tyndal effect *yet*. I've set this batch aside and will keep checking on it. snip Sigh, I get really tempted to just shelve experimentation with [ ... ] taste and Tyndal are just too relative to communicate accuracy. Indeed. But you can work out the starting and finishing resistance of the solution from the results I posted. About 240K dropping to about 20K at 10 ppm. This could be used as a ball park figure (extrapolated to your own set up) for judging ppm or at least a consistant finishing point. One thing I am considering is going to a PWM (pulse width modulation) output from the processor going through a low pass filter into an op amp (gain around 2.5) so I could gradually ramp up the voltage (or down). Just starting to formulate this one :). This would feed voltage to the H-Bridge. I've used this kind of thing for other projects in the past and it works well. Thanks for this, I've been scratching head all day about how to best proceeed at this point. I have a few questions that I might even be able to formuate that might make sense. I've been using an electrode spacing of 2.75, it seems to work. I have read of spacings from 1/8 to 1 and so being used. Does this ultimately make a difference. I'm still confused about this aspect. The wetted length of my electrodes is about 4.5, I keep seeing things that look like they might be an inch or so and some units have three electrodes in them. I am considering cutting down the wetted length to around 2, would that mean that I need to close up the spacing? Is this a good idea when using the 12oz glass with a depth of 4.75 to 5 inches when filled with DW? One of the reasons for the above is that I would like to sample the resistance of the solution while the process goes on. Hookup wire and meter probes being stuck in the solution seems like a bad idea (goddess only knows what metal content they consist of). This would give me silver wires to use for resistance probes. Many questions! any ideas or suggestions appreciated! BTW: one thing I noticed about the electrodes on the last batch I did after going back to the 27V with polarity reversing is that the electrodes were MUCH cleaner. Instead of one electrode being black and the other the dusty grey both were a slightly darker dusty grey with much less of a build up on either. The other thought I am having is trying to determine what it would take to build a TDS meter, currently meditating on this. The parts wouldn't be that expensive (might even have most of them), but then you get into calibration :-). Something reasonably easy to build and reasonably accurate might go a long way to resolving a lot of my questions :-). Hope this made sense :-). Thanks take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org, vikki.oz.net Walking on water and developing software to specification are easy as long as both are frozen - Edward V. Berard. Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSmold/cs experiments
On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:52:06 -0700, James Allison apothec...@home.com wrote: I don't understand the theory behind the mold test. If mold led to the discovery of penicillin because mold has antibiotic properties or is a type of antibiotic (I really don't know, as I haven't done the research), and colloidal silver doesn't have any interactions with antibiotics, then how would it be able to do anything to mold? Yours in health, James Allison I dunno, I spray the shower curtain with CS, No more mold! Chuck Avoid computer viruses--practice safe hex -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNew experiment and observations...Plot **THICKENS**
HI Vikki; Just red your post. You have seen the field effect of a stationary liquid. Just manuallky stir it every minute ore two and wathc the reading. Ole Bob Victoria Welch wrote: Hi Everyone, Well blush, there has been an interesting turn of events here as best I can tell. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSNEW pH list starting...
Hi Vilik, I would like tobe signed up for the poh list also, Thankyou \, Carmen - Original Message - From: Vilik Rapheles vi...@peak.org To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 6:39 AM Subject: CSNEW pH list starting... pH-bodybalance... A list for the purpose of studying, sharing, experiencing and experimenting with the pH of all body fluids as indicators and predicators of health will be starting in the fall. All and sundry ideas and theories of pH are fair game. Knowledgable people welcome as well as total newbies. To sign up just send me a private email. I'll get back to you when it starts. ~^^V^^~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS
I asked Quackwatch what double blind studies he had to prove that something alternative didn't work, and he said he didn'thave time to answer me. Ha ha, Alice -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSnew to silver
Someone on the list recently kyboshed the use of the clear crystal for use as a deodorant/bacteria control for use underarms jock itch area because it contained the 'no no' aluminium! I suppose this is the ammonium alum in my crystal stick deodorant list of ingredients? Rejoice in the small steps!! Michael firew...@juno.com webMaster of The Outlands WebStead at: http://members.tripod.com/~Outlands and lord of Far Reaches Cot-hold ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSDo we need our parasites?
I would tend to agree, but I am an exception to this article and am not sure why. I grew up on a farm, certainly not sterilized conditions, and was not vaccinated, used only homeopathy-- until I developed explosive rheumatoid arthritis when under extreme emotional duress (my marriage). Prior to the RA I was very healthy. I believe antibiotics and vaccinations are a big part of our cancer, allergies, autism, etc--we are poisoning ourselves. So why did I get sick? I guess severe stress combined with bacteria. Susan L In a message dated 99-08-23 14:54:50 EDT, you write: I just read the a fascinating article in Science news which I wanted to share with you. The article suggests that many of the diseases that are currently accelerating in the US may be because of our attempts to eradicate bacteria and other organisms in our environment and in our bodies. I have heard this theory before and it makes a lot of sense to me, but this article took it one step further to include studies which showed that we may need our parasites in order to stay healthy. Evidently, baffled by the rise of diseases such as athsma, allergies, automimmune diseases, rheumatiod arthritis and diabetes in the developed nations scientist have begun to investigate the possibility that our immune systems need exposure to a certain amount of bacteria and diseases in order to develop. With the combination of early childhood vaccinations, and our -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CS in the cat
In a message dated 08/26/1999 5:19:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heath...@microsoft.com writes: When my cat gets those nasty things, I (here goes!) pick the scab, drain the wound as completely as I can clean the wound with peroxide. Then I use a plastic feeding syringe (no needle: small animal baby bird type) to insert as much CS as the wound will hold. Question Just how do you hold this cat, besides very carefully, while your picking, draining and inserting. My beloved, normally passive, cat would tear my face off if I tried that. Larry -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSMSM-info please!
Rob Lowe wrote: Hi, a little while ago someone posted info on MSM which apparently is a wetting agent to allow CS to penetrate the tissue when used topically on the skin. Could someone please explain what is MSM? I went to my local health food shop and they said that they could get it in for me but that the cost was fairly prohibitive - 500gms for $A75!? Not knowing anything about it, amount to mix, etc. I passed on it for the time being. I was primarily hoping to use it on my daughters acne and to heal other skin problems. One other daughter found CS brilliant for cold sores on the lips. She has normally found taking lysine daily does the trick, but recently had a monster infection almost all around her mouth. Anyway, she very reluctantly used CS at my nagging and was dumfounded to find that it worked brilliantly. The old man's crack pot idea using a silver brew really did work!! I would like to incorporate a wetting agent because I think that it will be more effective for future use. Your helpful suggestions would be more than welcome. Rob PS: I think someone also mentioned in passing that the CS MSM could be used for internal use as well?? DMSO can also be used as a wetting agent Ron -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSHELP - GET ME OFF OF HERE
In a message dated 08/26/1999 8:31:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alial...@aol.com writes: We are going on vacation and I don't want my mail box filled up with CS stuff. I have tried sending messages to the proper place with the word unsubscribe, but here we still are. PLEASE, SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO TURN THIS THING OFF FOR A WHILE Thanks, Alice Try this: To quit silver-list send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com with the word unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSFw: escharotic
I am interested in the Indian Mud. Details, please? T wrote: Hi, There is a product I get form a naturopath in AZ., called Indian Mud. Very much like Black salve, but better. It's truly amazing stuff. Not only pulls the tumor out, but draws cancer from other parts of the body out with it. Since skin cancer has long tentacles, it is hard to really get it all with surgery. This stuff pulls the tentacles out. I've seen it work and personally used it. Even my MD was impressed. If interested in more info, let me know. Kass -Original Message- From: fedtol...@worldnet.att.net fedtol...@worldnet.att.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 11:08 AM Subject: Re: CSFw: escharotic Ian, I'm very interested in your result with the Escharotic paste. My Mom was just diagnosed with Clark's stage 4 melanoma on her arm and I am clammoring around trying to decide on alternative treatments while the doctors check to see if it has spread, and warm up the chemo equipment. Can you share any other information regarding your moms cancer. Was it Clark's stage 4, I am wondering because you said the doctors are sure it is spreading somewhere. Have you used the capsules also.How long did she have the cancer before you treated it. Do you have any information that the topical treatment may be effective with cancer spreading under the skin in the area? My mom had the tumor on her arm removed, they think they feel another lump nearby under the skin. I'm going to check out the website, but at the moment my computer is acting up and all I can do is send and receive my email Your thoughts are appreciated, Diana. -- From: roesil...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSFw: escharotic Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 6:43 PM Another source of Escharotic is Alpha Omega Labs www.altcancer.com I got some paste from there for $49 and only a little of it destroyed a 10 square inch melanoma on my mother's head in less than 24 hours. It had no effect on healthy tissue. The substance was also available in capsules 120 for $29 (a month's supply) There was a nasty wound to heal afterwards but no infection ensued. She suffers more now from the radiation she received than anything else. There may still be mets but the doctors haven't found them yet - they are only 'sure' that it is spreading somewhere. Sincerely Yours, Ian Roe -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
