Re: CSThe Immune System ( 20 % )Thymic protein A

[Malcolm Stebbins]

Oh.  Oh Darn!

At 05:50 PM 7/15/06 -0500, you wrote:


As I remember, the person requesting this favor was quickly executed once
the king realized what the price would actually be...

Dan

Malcolm Stebbins wrote:

Hey Mike!
Glad to read your recent posts, and I have to admit playing with numbers 
can be fun.  However, as with the Malthusian doctrine - so called -
many other factors are often dismissed or never recognized as affecting 
an outcome.  I'd argue that chief among these is the notion that such 
replicants are otherwise unchallenged in their multiplicative success; 
first, how long do they live?  do they live as long when crowded? do they 
multiply as readily - successfully - under other self-induced conditions? 
under various host conditions? is their replication sexual or asexual or 
both? does a strain weaken and become less competent over time within 
the same host environment? is there a spore phase? what about 
syncsitia(sp?)? do we care?
I still remember the story about a Sufi master who did a king a favor and 
refused any payment.  The king insisted; the master refused again; the 
king insisted even more insistently and the master of course gave 
in.  Here's what he said:
On your chess board, Oh, generous King, place one grain of rice upon the 
first square, two upon the second, four upon the third, eight upon the 
fourth and so on until you have put the correct number of rice grains on 
every one of the squares.  As you pointed out, two to the sixty-third 
power is a fairly large number, and it exceeds  all the rice grains 
available then or now.

H, Malcolm



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Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine

[Malcolm Stebbins]

Isn't this where experimenters got into argon flooding - or some inert gas 
- to eliminate such problems?


At 08:29 PM 7/15/06 -0400, you wrote:


  sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com wrote:

   alchemySA wrote:

   Home-made colloidal silver contains no silver nitrate)

   I believe  the above statement might not be strictly  accurate, as
   homemade HVAC  colloidal   silver   probably  does  contain silver
   nitrate, per my memory of posts from ole Bob. I think that  is why
   he gave up on it after much work on it? Someone correct me  if I'm
   wrong. Anybody have a better memory than me?

  sol

  Hi sol,

  As far  as I recall, HVAC can make various nitrous  oxides,  some of
  which are  toxic. I'm not sure if any nitrates are  generated, which
  would be  needed  for  nitric acid, which would  be  needed  to make
  silver nitrate.

  We would need a real good chemist to sort this out, but I think it's
  pretty safe  to say nobody uses HVAC for homemade cs  any  more. The
  ion concentration  is too low - maybe less than 3 nines.  Everyone I
  know who was using abandoned it long ago.

  One company  may  still  use  a  special  HVAC  generator  where the
  electrode is  above the surface of the water and  forms  an electric
  arc. Frank analyzed their product and posted the results on  his web
  site. I  recall  it  makes  about 20ppm,  but  I  don't  think Frank
  measures any nitrogen byproducts. I have the patent around somewhere
  but can't locate it at the moment.

  One thing  I remember clearly is the patent stated the  operator had
  to continuously  adjust  the spacing of the rods,  and  that  it was
  fairly difficult  to  see the small arc. This means  there  would be
  large variations in product quality as the operator became fatigued.

  This seems  like  such a waste of effort when we can  make  equal or
  better ion  concentration  with  LVDC,   with  no  risk  of unwanted
  nitrogen products.

  I still  have  two  flat silver electrodes Ole  Bob  gave  me  to do
  comparison tests  with  12  ga  wire.  He  had  used  them  for HVAC
  production, and  you can see etching along the water line  where the
  high voltage  caused some arcing. I was thinking of  firing  them up
  this weekend  to see if there was any change in performance  with my
  new conductance  plotting  process,  but  it  looks  like  the ozone
  machine will burn up all the available time.

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm


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Re: CSThe Immune System ( 20 % )Thymic protein A

[Malcolm Stebbins]

Check this out:
Cell Wall Deficient Forms: Stealth Pathogens / Lida H. Mattman. --  3rd ed.
CRC Press 2001

In brief, there is no question;  they exist.  They have been 
microphotographed, copiously; cultured, put through their paces so to 
speak, survived the rigors of the Koch test with flying colors, if no cell 
walls.  The existence of hype doesn't preclude their reality, it just 
confuses the issue if you don't happen to have the spare time to pursue a 
full-on career in research microbiology.  Neither do I, just lucky to hit 
some good references and order some good books.


Take care, Malcolm

At 03:19 PM 7/15/06 -0400, you wrote:


  Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp wrote:

   This whole  calculation  is   misleading  because  it  ignores the
   question of how long nanobacteria live. It assumes none  die. With
   a very short life span, the rate or reproduction might barely keep
   up with the death rate.

   I assume this calculation was intended to be a joke.

  JBB

  Yes, Jonathan,  it  was  in jest. But  alas,  I  started  looking at
  nanobacteria more carefully, and it looks like the whole thing  is a
  joke.

  I tracked  down the original 1998 paper by Olavi  Kajander  and Neva
  Ciftcioglu of  the University of Kuopio in Finland. They  claimed to
  have found nanobacteria, surrounded by a calcium-rich mineral called
  apatite,


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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Gunar]

- Original Message - 
From: John McLean h...@bigpond.net.au

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


An other thing, I remember was that if honey candied it was impure 
honey, and I can't remember what caused it to candy. It appears that 
pure honey will mainintain its liquid form for years.

John in Australia


Hello John -- sorry, but you are mistaken about candied honey
being impure: ... just the opposite is true; candied or crystalised
honey occurs when the honey is raw, that is, when the honey has
NOT been subjected to high enough temperature in processing it.

Manuka honey is a perfect example of raw honey, which is crystalised.

Honey which remains runny, or liquid, has had its enzymes
destroyed by heat during processing, and so has lost much of its
health and medicinal value.

Regards,
Gunar in Sydney. 



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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[John McLean]

M well all I can say is that Dad used to own 600 beehives, he always 
maintained that if your honey candied it wasn't, but he isn't alive now for 
me to ask him. I do remember that he always used to extract the honey when 
it was below a 20% moisture content, how he measured it I don't know.

John

- Original Message - 
From: Gunar garn...@bigpond.net.au

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


- Original Message - 
From: John McLean h...@bigpond.net.au

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


An other thing, I remember was that if honey candied it was impure 
honey, and I can't remember what caused it to candy. It appears that 
pure honey will mainintain its liquid form for years.

John in Australia


Hello John -- sorry, but you are mistaken about candied honey
being impure: ... just the opposite is true; candied or crystalised
honey occurs when the honey is raw, that is, when the honey has
NOT been subjected to high enough temperature in processing it.

Manuka honey is a perfect example of raw honey, which is crystalised.

Honey which remains runny, or liquid, has had its enzymes
destroyed by heat during processing, and so has lost much of its
health and medicinal value.

Regards,
Gunar in Sydney.

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Re: CSbest vitamin c

[M. G. Devour]

Sol wrote:
 Without a proper calcium/phosphorus ratio, mammals can't properly use
 calcium. The conventional wisdom seems to be that humans get plenty of
 phosphorus and don't need to worry about it, but I wonder if that is
 really true. 

Right now my phosphorus levels are low, both absolutely and relative to 
calcium. The problem I'm overcoming is apparently calcium overload. I'm 
supplementing with bioavailable calcium and avoiding all inorganic 
sources. As I'm slowly getting rid of the precipitated calcium, the 
phosphorus levels are supposed to rise. 

It's not easy to bring up phosphorus levels. It's supposed to take 
months.

Body chemistry is not simple. sigh

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CSbest vitamin c

[M. G. Devour]

 Hi Mike - would you please tell us what specifically is bioavailable 
 calcium, what to look for on a label to indicate that and also what are 
 the organic and inorganic sources...my readings tell me that that 
 ascorbates are often processed with some pretty undesirable chemicals.

HI Deborah,

I can't tell you much about it. I'm just taking the Matrix supplements 
I got from Huggins and crew after my dental revision based on their 
analysis of my blood chemistry, and not really bothering to analyze 
them yet.

Their claim is that the minerals they sell are each in several 
different bioavailable chemical forms so that, no matter what's wrong 
with you, at least *one* of them will be absorbed and used by your 
system.

I think the good forms are mostly organic chelates. The non-
bioavailable forms generally are inorganic. In the case of calcium, 
mostly rocks, like dolomite.

The Huggins supplements are usually rather low potency and used 
sparingly compared to what we're used to. This is supposed to be 
because they are so bioavailable you don't need as much.

See www.drhuggins.com for more info. We've found they're pretty helpful 
on the phone as well.

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CSbest vitamin c

[laquerencia33]

Hi Mike - would you please tell us what specifically is bioavailable  
calcium, what to look for on a label to indicate that and also what are  
the organic and inorganic sources...my readings tell me that that  
ascorbates are often processed with some pretty undesirable chemicals.


Thanks, I appreciate it...
Deborah



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Re: CSRoot Canals

[M. G. Devour]

 At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are
 very bad.  So, what is one to do? 

Hi Pat,

I went to the clinic believing (or hoping, might be the better word) 
that I would be spared any surgery on my gums. I had a mouth full of 
fillings, but no extraction sites, root canals, crowns, or anything 
else complicated. 

As it turns out, they've learned in the last 3 years or so that even un-
nucleated wisdom tooth sites can harbor a void in the bone filled by 
material that can trigger an autoimmune response. 

The pivotal case that brought this to their attention was a woman with 
a *perfectly* healthy mouth who nonetheless suffered from ... MS, I 
think. (I'm going from memory here, so may not get the details of the 
story right.) The only thing she had was wisdom teeth that hadn't 
formed. At the urging of the desparate husband, they explored those 
sites and found what they usually see at cavitation sites. Removal of 
the material produced significant improvement in her condition. Since 
then they have explored many such sites and found cavitations in all 
but a few.

This was enough to convince me to let them go ahead with the oral 
surgery I had hoped to avoid, despite the fact that I had not read 
about it in their publications beforehand and I wasn't as prepared for 
it as the rest of what I knew had to be done.

Now, to the point of my recollections, I was still the simplest case 
there. Some folks were having several teeth removed, bridges made, 
crowns replaced... Boy, there was a lot of dentistry going on!

The story with root canals is that they know of no way to make them 
safe. They *always* harbor anaerobic bacteria that produce dangerous 
toxins, despite the claims of conventional dental authorities to the 
contrary. So a root canal means the tooth has to go.

Which is not a happy thing.

My wife has a root canal, two crowns, and 4 wisdom tooth extraction 
sites that have to be cleaned out. She's not happy with the notion that 
there's no alternative but an extraction and bridge. In fact, the other 
crown is on a post that may have to be removed as well, so she may need 
two bridges. sigh 

All that is daunting, and it's going to be a while before she is going 
to be willing to do that, if ever.

There's a lot of experience to back up the asserted dangers of root 
canals. The controversy surrounding the procedure, like the safety of 
mercury fillings, goes back over a hundred years. They are no more 
willing to admit to it than in the case of amalgams. So your dentist 
will not hear about it from any reputable source, no matter how well 
intentioned he may be.

I'm fortunate and grateful that I still have all my own teeth. My 
wisdom tooth sites are healed over, and the sensitivity to temperature 
and chewing is starting to subside in all of my molars. 

I now have to wait and see if my health problems are going to improve 
significantly. Since I didn't walk in the door with a single, serious 
diagnosis, the long term results will likely be less obvious or 
measurable than for others.

I'll be detoxing for a while as the easily mobilized mercury comes out 
of me and my body adapts to the absence of my recommended daily 
allowance of new mercury. At the same time we're slowly adjusting my 
blood chemistries by diet and supplementation. So, I may not start to 
feel better for a while.

You're going to have to decide what to believe. Research the subject 
from all sides. When you're ready to make your decision you'll know.

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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CSRoot Canals

[Pat]

At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are
very bad.  So, what is one to do?  I have a molar,
bottom, second from back, that is broken, had a
filling down to the root, and is now covered with a
crown to hold it all together.  If I chew on it, it
sends an electric shock type pain occassionally.  I
discussed options with my dentist.  He said you can't
just pull it because then all the other teeth would
shift to fill up the space.  To put an artificial
tooth in there, he'd have to grind down the teeth next
to it to attach anchors, but he's unwilling to do that
since one is a perfect tooth that's never had a
filling.  To put an implanted tooth in, first he has
to pull the tooth, after that's healed months later,
surgically implant the base, and then about 6 months
after all that you get a tooth attached.  He
recommends root canal, ...he said it has a very high
success rate.  He said they don't remove the crown,
just drill through it and then fill it up afterwards. 
I said I've read things that say they're not good for
you and I know a couple people who've had problems
with pain afterwards, but he said things are so
exaggerated on the internet and that most people never
have a problem.  I've been going to him since '89 and
I know he wants what's best for me.  He doesn't even
do root canals himself...sends people to an
endodontist.  For now, I'll just keep chewing on one
side mostly, although it's sometimes difficult to do. 
So, what would YOU do if it was your bad tooth?  

  Pat

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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Staya Udanvti Bob Butler]

Osiyo Nigadv!
Hello Everyone!

Honey of any purity will crystallize over time. Different flower nectars can 
cause longer or shorter crystallization  times. Honey taste goes from very 
mild like orange and clover to a heavy flavor as in Horehound.
Crystallization or granulation begins as the water content continues to 
evaporate and the glucose sets as the monohydrate. The color will also 
darken.


Raw unfiltered honey may contain bits and pieces of body parts, wax, and 
propolis. This is the real stuff and will not sell in the grocery stores.


Typical honey analysis: Fructose: 38%, Glucose: 31%, Sucrose: 1%, Water: 
17%, Other sugars: 9% (maltose, melezitose), Ash: 0.17% .. Source: Sugar 
Alliance 


Commercial honey may have additives and filtration to reduce viscosity and 
lengthen granulation time. Some mix different nectar honeys in a blend to 
reduce strong flavors.


Raw unfiltered honey is normally very thick. You can prove this to yourself 
by looking at the viscosity of raw unfiltered honey and the commercial 
brands.
 To return to liquid just gentle heat in a warm water bath, never boiling 
hot tho as heat will kill the beneficial enzymes. Never in the microwave 
either.
My Dad was a commercial apiarists and I was myself for many years as a 
hobby. It is hard to make a living harvesting honey now-a-days.
Bee stings cured me of arthritis in my back. X-rays showed bone spurs on L4 
and L5 and the only thing it could have been was the continual bee stings 
that caused the spurs to disappear...


Giving honey to infants can be hazardous because some infants can develop 
the disease known as infant botulism. This occurs because there is a natural 
bacteria in the honey which cannot be filtered out. The bacteria then 
produces a toxin, known as botulin, in the infant's intestines. After the 
infant has become more than a year old, the intestine has matured and the 
bacteria cannot grow. Even the honey in some processed foods can cause 
botulism. After an infant ingests this bacteria, the disease can occur 
within a few hours or even up to a week..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya Udanvti

- Original Message - 
From: John McLean h...@bigpond.net.au

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


An other thing, I remember was that if honey candied it was impure 
honey, and I can't remember what caused it to candy. It appears that 
pure honey will mainintain its liquid form for years.

John in Australia
- Original Message - 
From: Dennis Gulenchin dgulenc...@mts.net

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


Buckwheat honey seems to stay liquid for a long time. I still have some 
left in a jar that I bought more than a year ago that is still liquid. It 
is not refrigerated although the HFS where I bought it kept it in a 
cooler.

Dennis

John McLean wrote:


From memory again, runny honey can mean too much moisture in it, but


having said that, some varieties of plants do produce a less viscous 
honey, we have a eucalypt tree over here and its called Yellow Box, the 
honey off that particular tree I remember Dad would almost kill for, and 
it was very stiff when cold.

John
- Original Message - From: Rowena new...@aapt.net.au
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


I was told the other day that all the honey you get in the supermarket 
is
pasteurized, unless you get something labelled raw honey.  Happily 
for me
I am able from time to time to get some honey direct from the producer. 
The
heated honey tends not to solidify, so if I'm somewhere buying 
supposedly
unprocessed honey and I notice one is turning solid, I tend to go for 
that
as an indication that it has not been overheated.  Gently warming to 
get it

flowing to put in pots is different.
Rowena

Dad was a fanatic regarding the production of honey, he never heated it
above a certain temperature, if overheated it would destroy the enzymes 
in
it, and the exact figure I can't remember, but he could look at honey 
and

tell you whether it had been overheated.
John in Australia


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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Rowena]

There may be something in this - I recall in Wales, 50 years ago, Mum 
complaining that a local beekeeper fed his bees with sugar, and I recall 
that honey was set pretty hard.  Where can we find a tame beekeeper to quiz? 
But certainly what I have heard from the beekeepers I've bought off and 
people who talk as if they know a thing or two is that the honey that sets 
has not been heated (overheated).
R

http://www.capilano.com.au/education/facts-about-honey.aspx says
Q: Why does honey go 'candied' or 'sugary' or 'lumpy'?
A: Honey that has 'candied' is still in top condition. It has simply gone 
through a natural process due to many factors, such as temperature 
conditions and the ratio of the naturally occurring sugars in honey. All 
honey will candy eventually, but some will candy very quickly - some will 
even candy in the frame in the hive before the beekeeper is able to extract 
the honey - and some honey will take many years to candy. The exact 
composition of honey depends from which type of flowers the honeybee has 
been collecting the nectar.

Q: What should I do when honey is candied?
A: 1) Spoon honey into a microwave safe container or heat resistant bowl and 
place in the microwave. Heat the honey in 30 second increments on a medium 
heat and stir at each stage (ensuring you remove the spoon between mixes) (R 
says: Not happy about anything in the microwave, let alone honey)  or
2) Place squeeze pack in a container or bowl of hot tap water until the 
honey becomes liquid again (make sure the lid is exposed out of the water to 
ensure that no water leaks into the pack).

Q: Why does honey go 'candied' or 'sugary' or 'lumpy'?
A: Honey that has 'candied' is still in top condition. It has simply gone 
through a natural process due to many factors, such as temperature 
conditions and the ratio of the naturally occurring sugars in honey. All 
honey will candy eventually, but some will candy very quickly - some will 
even candy in the frame in the hive before the beekeeper is able to extract 
the honey - and some honey will take many years to candy. The exact 
composition of honey depends from which type of flowers the honeybee has 
been collecting the nectar.

Q:What is creamed honey?
A: This is pure honey (with very fine grained crystallised or candied honey 
added) and is whipped which adds air bubbles. This gives the honey a creamy 
look and a smooth, velvety taste. Pure honey is the only ingredient - 
nothing else is added. It is the process of whipping that gives its unique 
texture. Creamed honey is thicker than liquid honey and is ideal for 
spreading on toast and crumpets.

 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/RawHoney.html note that (probably in the USA!) 
honey heated to 140 instead of 160 degrees is being labelled raw.  with note 
added to post saying *In discussions on this topic with Honey Board Staff, 
it was determined that, indeed, no single definition for raw honey exists. 
For commercially raw honey, the standards are set between buyer and seller, 
and a standard minimum processing temperature does not exist. We agree that 
it is time to define these standards, and support any action by beekeeping 
organizations and others to do so. However, until such are in force, we do 
not believe that packers using the term on their labels are fradulent nor 
unscrupulous. Opportunistic may be a better term. Ed. .

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20060627035558AAqYgmK -  feeding 
them sugar will ruin the honey. If you've ever bought honey in a grocery 
store and after a month or two, you get a build up around the top, that's 
because sugar was fed to the bees. It does nothing but ruin the honey. Let 
them do their own thing.
http://www.sugarindia.com/invert_syrup_honey_bee.htm interesting stuff about 
sugars that feed and sugars that kill bees.


M well all I can say is that Dad used to own 600 beehives, he always
maintained that if your honey candied it wasn't, but he isn't alive now for
me to ask him. I do remember that he always used to extract the honey when
it was below a 20% moisture content, how he measured it I don't know.
John


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Re: CSRoot Canals

[Mark S. Siepak]

I had the same problem, and had the root canal through a crown. The pain
went away, but about a year (maybe less) later, that crown cracked and had
to be replaced. I would do it and deal with any collateral damage later, if
it happens to crack the way mine did - the pain isn't worth it.
---
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even
his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he
establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
- Thomas Paine
--
Mark S. Siepak


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Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine

[Mike Monett]

  Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com wrote:

   Isn't this  where experimenters got into argon flooding -  or some
   inert gas to eliminate such problems?

  I know Jason has proposed argon flooding, but I don't know of anyone
  who actually  used it. There really is no need. In most  cases, HVAC
  produces very  poor quality cs, except for the  process  I mentioned
  earlier. And they never bothered with argon.

  Simple LVDC  generators  at  low current  density  easily  reach the
  Nernst Limit, so there's no need for the expense and difficulties of
  handing flood gasses.

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm


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Re: CSThe Immune System ( 20 % )Thymic protein A

[Mike Monett]

  Malcolm Stebbins s...@asis.com wrote:

   Check this out:

   Cell Wall  Deficient Forms: Stealth Pathogens /  Lida  H. Mattman.
   3rd ed. CRC Press 2001

   In brief,  there  is  no  question;  they  exist.  They  have been
   microphotographed, copiously; cultured, put through their paces so
   to speak, survived the rigors of the Koch test with flying colors,
   if no  cell  walls. The existence of hype  doesn't  preclude their
   reality, it  just confuses the issue if you don't  happen  to have
   the spare   time   to   pursue   a   full-on   career  in research
   microbiology. Neither do I, just lucky to hit some good references
   and order some good books.

   Take care, Malcolm

  The title is a bit misleading. Any life form has to has some sort of
  barrier to  keep its insides from floating away.  The  term Stealth
  Pathogens is  just a marketing gimmick to get you to  buy  the book
  and find  out what she is talking about. I tend to skip  authors who
  use these tricks.

  There is  nothing  unusual about life forms that  lack  a  true cell
  wall. Instead, they have a membrane to keep everything in.

  Mycoplasma is one example. Here's a partial description.  The actual
  article is much longer.

  
  Background: Mycoplasmal organisms are the smallest known free-living
  life forms. They are nearly ubiquitous in both the plant  and animal
  kingdoms as colonizers and pathogens. They are prokaryotes  but lack
  a cell wall; however, they have a unique cell membrane that contains
  sterols, which  are  not  present  in  either  bacteria  or viruses.
  Mycoplasma organisms  are  small (150-250  nm)  and  have deformable
  membranes. The  name  Mycoplasma  refers to  the  plasticity  of the
  bacterial forms resembling fungal elements.

  When they were first discovered, mycoplasmal organisms were believed
  to be  viruses  because   they   pass  through  filters  that retain
  bacteria. However,  unlike  viruses,   they   are  able  to  grow in
  cell-free media  and   contain   both   ribonucleic  acid  (RNA) and
  deoxyribonucleic acid  (DNA).  Mycoplasma   species  have  also been
  mistakenly believed to be L-forms of bacteria, which also  lack cell
  walls. Unlike  mycoplasmal  organisms, L-form bacteria  do  not have
  sterols in  the cell membranes, and they can revert to  their walled
  parental forms.  The  following   summary  is  modified  from Baum's
  Introduction to Mycoplasma Diseases in Principles and  Practice of
  Infectious Diseases (2000) (see Image 1).

  The general  characteristics   of   Mycoplasma  species  include the
  following:

Prokaryotic
Size of 150-250 nm
Lack of a cell wall
Sterol-containing cell membrane
Fastidious growth requirements
Fried-egg or mulberry colonies on agar

  Mycoplasma species differ from viruses in the following ways:

They grow on cell-free media in vitro
They contain both RNA and DNA
They have both intracellular and extracellular parasitism in vivo

  Mycoplasma species  differ from bacteria (including L-forms)  in the
  following ways:

They have sterols in the cell membrane
They share no DNA homology with known bacteria
They have low guanine levels plus cytosine content
Their genome has a low molecular weight
They exhibit no reversion to walled forms

  Pathophysiology: Mycoplasma  organisms cause infection  primarily as
  extracellular parasites,  attaching to the surface  of  ciliated and
  nonciliated epithelial cells. The attachment site, or receptor, is a
  complex carbohydrate  structurally  akin to antigen I  of  red blood
  cells. The antibody response to this receptor results  in production
  of the  anti-I  antibody  or   cold  agglutinin,  which  acts  as an
  autoantibody. Following attachment, mycoplasmal organisms  may cause
  direct cytotoxic  damage  to epithelial  cells  because  of hydrogen
  peroxide generation  or   cytolysis   via  an  inflammatory response
  mediated by mononuclear cells or antigen-antibody reactions.

  Systemic spread   of   the   bacterium   is   rare.  Most Mycoplasma
  pneumoniae-associated illnesses  are   confined  to  the respiratory
  tract  (see   Extrarespiratory   manifestations   for   M pneumoniae
  infection). Genital  mycoplasmal  organisms  are  associated  with a
  number of genitourinary tract and reproductive diseases but also can
  cause infections at other sites.

  Mycoplasmal organisms commonly contaminate tissue cultures, in which
  they act  as  intracellular parasites and  alter  both  cellular and
  viral molecular  events. They are difficult to  eliminate,  and they
  raise questions regarding the validity of molecular  biology results
  from tissue-culture experiments.

  http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic1524.htm

  

  Note the  last paragraph about contamination. This  is  

Re: CSRoot Canals

[M. G. Devour]

Dear Pat,

 Ok, I can believe that maybe root canals could have a
 pocket for germs or whatever.  But, I'm
 wondering...when you first have the 4 wisdom teeth
 extracted, and they're very careful about bacteria and
 clean healinghow will it be different if they open
 up those sites and do it all over again?

When conventional dentists pull teeth, they routinely leave behind the 
ligament that connects the tooth with the gums. The gum heals over, and 
a cap of bone forms over the cavity where the tooth was. What's left 
does not have good circulation and eventually tissues die, bacteria 
grow and turn anaerobic, and this toxic soup diffuses slowly into the 
lymphatic system and from there to the rest of the body.

Go in there, clean out the socket and grind away a millimeter or two of 
bone, and as it re-heals (if you're careful not to dislodge the blood 
clot in the first day or two) the bone fills in and there's no longer 
anyplace for anything to grow.

That's the theory, anyway. 

Some of the folks at the clinic I went through are already seeing 
improvements, so I'm optimistic that they're not making it *all* up out 
of whole cloth. grin

 Sure hope yours heal fast Mike, ...what a nightmare to
 go through.  Did they do that over a period of days? 

Healing from the dental work is coming along fine, one month out. Detox 
and long term improvement are a work in progress. Nothing exciting to 
report, but no serious complications either.

They did it all in one sitting for me, under conscious sedation. Umm, 
I went to sleep and don't remember a thing! grin

Others had to have two sessions to get all the work in. Many were in 
the chair longer than the 3 1/2 hours that I was.

They do a lot of things to speed healing and minimize pain -- some kind 
of insulin injection near the surgical sites, magnets, a painkiller, 
massage and accupressure treatments... I'm surprised, actually, how 
well the discomfort was managed. We did pretty well, actually.

 They'd have to just put me to sleep and do it all.  I
 can't stand dental nerve pain.  Once I was trembling
 so bad when getting a filling done that they put my
 coat over me and waited a bit before they could do it.
  I sure wouldn't voluntarily go through changing
 fillings.

Well, it's not something you do on a lark! I thought it over for a long 
while, believe me. I finally decided that if I'm going to fully regain 
my health and stamina I'm going to *have* to remove the burden of heavy 
metal poisoning and let my body heal itself. If I didn't, everything 
I'd ever try would be handicapped.

Enough other people I've talked to have seen their health improve after 
amalgam removal, that I had a pretty high level of confidence going in. 
We'll see how it goes over the next few months.

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CSRoot Canals

[hanyax]

Many thanks for the first hand testimony! 

Proverbs: When there is no vision, the people perish. 




- Original Message - 
From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: CSRoot Canals



At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are
very bad.  So, what is one to do? 


Hi Pat,

I went to the clinic believing (or hoping, might be the better word) 
that I would be spared any surgery on my gums. I had a mouth full of 
fillings, but no extraction sites, root canals, crowns, or anything 
else complicated. 


As it turns out, they've learned in the last 3 years or so that even un-
nucleated wisdom tooth sites can harbor a void in the bone filled by 
material that can trigger an autoimmune response. 

The pivotal case that brought this to their attention was a woman with 
a *perfectly* healthy mouth who nonetheless suffered from ... MS, I 
think. (I'm going from memory here, so may not get the details of the 
story right.) The only thing she had was wisdom teeth that hadn't 
formed. At the urging of the desparate husband, they explored those 
sites and found what they usually see at cavitation sites. Removal of 
the material produced significant improvement in her condition. Since 
then they have explored many such sites and found cavitations in all 
but a few.


This was enough to convince me to let them go ahead with the oral 
surgery I had hoped to avoid, despite the fact that I had not read 
about it in their publications beforehand and I wasn't as prepared for 
it as the rest of what I knew had to be done.


Now, to the point of my recollections, I was still the simplest case 
there. Some folks were having several teeth removed, bridges made, 
crowns replaced... Boy, there was a lot of dentistry going on!


The story with root canals is that they know of no way to make them 
safe. They *always* harbor anaerobic bacteria that produce dangerous 
toxins, despite the claims of conventional dental authorities to the 
contrary. So a root canal means the tooth has to go.


Which is not a happy thing.

My wife has a root canal, two crowns, and 4 wisdom tooth extraction 
sites that have to be cleaned out. She's not happy with the notion that 
there's no alternative but an extraction and bridge. In fact, the other 
crown is on a post that may have to be removed as well, so she may need 
two bridges. sigh 

All that is daunting, and it's going to be a while before she is going 
to be willing to do that, if ever.


There's a lot of experience to back up the asserted dangers of root 
canals. The controversy surrounding the procedure, like the safety of 
mercury fillings, goes back over a hundred years. They are no more 
willing to admit to it than in the case of amalgams. So your dentist 
will not hear about it from any reputable source, no matter how well 
intentioned he may be.


I'm fortunate and grateful that I still have all my own teeth. My 
wisdom tooth sites are healed over, and the sensitivity to temperature 
and chewing is starting to subside in all of my molars. 

I now have to wait and see if my health problems are going to improve 
significantly. Since I didn't walk in the door with a single, serious 
diagnosis, the long term results will likely be less obvious or 
measurable than for others.


I'll be detoxing for a while as the easily mobilized mercury comes out 
of me and my body adapts to the absence of my recommended daily 
allowance of new mercury. At the same time we're slowly adjusting my 
blood chemistries by diet and supplementation. So, I may not start to 
feel better for a while.


You're going to have to decide what to believe. Research the subject 
from all sides. When you're ready to make your decision you'll know.


Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CSRoot Canals

[rose]

well, i take a different approach to teeth.  teeth are batteries for organs.
removal imho should be a last resort.  years ago hubby had an ingrown wisdom
tooth that erupted into an abscess over night.  his jaw got huge.  we knew it
would be several weeks before we could even find an oral surgeon...having to
wade thru so many charlatans and pick the lesser of evils.  hubby mixed dmso and
tea tree oil and applied several times a day.  in 24 hours the area had returned
to normal.  since he doesn't like surgery he left the tooth in for almost a
year.

i have a crown some 42 years.  over time the tooth has been sensitive on
occasion...and painful.  the dmso tea tree oil is very effective.  when the
tooth flares i look for the organ associated with the tooth as an indicator the
problem behind the symptom.

presently studying rife technology.  if you know of anyone who has a rife, good
rife, i would start there.  it is also possible that a simple electronic device
(have not studied the others) may benefit.

pulling the tooth would be my last resort, and only after i had tried everything
else.

for me it becomes do i remove the tooth and deal with the permanent diminished
battery source and early warning system for the organ or do i deal with
occasional bacterial conditions that i have always been able to successfully
address.

rose

Re: CSRoot Canals

[Pat]

Ok, I can believe that maybe root canals could have a
pocket for germs or whatever.  But, I'm
wondering...when you first have the 4 wisdom teeth
extracted, and they're very careful about bacteria and
clean healinghow will it be different if they open
up those sites and do it all over again?

I wonder if implanted artificial teeth have problems
also?  

Sure hope yours heal fast Mike, ...what a nightmare to
go through.  Did they do that over a period of days? 
They'd have to just put me to sleep and do it all.  I
can't stand dental nerve pain.  Once I was trembling
so bad when getting a filling done that they put my
coat over me and waited a bit before they could do it.
 I sure wouldn't voluntarily go through changing
fillings.

   Pat

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CSbody chemistry, mineral imbalances, was Re: CSbest vitamin c

[sol]

Body chemistry is further confused by the fact that the body has a set 
point for blood levels of calcium, and if you don't get enough or what 
you take in is not properly utilized the body will remove calcium from 
the bones to maintain the blood levels. So I believe that blood levels 
of calcium and other minerals are not a very good indicator of what is 
really going on, or what the state of calcium in the body really is. 
Blood levels are therefore not totally reliable, but a poor tool is 
better than none, maybe.
I myelf have been going by The Metabolic Typing Diet, which gives 
examples of different metabolic types needing different supplementation 
or diets that sometimes contradicts the blood results. There really is 
no one size fits all way to deal with mineral imbalances, or even 
vitamin deficiencies according to that book.

sol

M. G. Devour wrote:


Sol wrote:
 


Without a proper calcium/phosphorus ratio, mammals can't properly use
calcium. The conventional wisdom seems to be that humans get plenty of
phosphorus and don't need to worry about it, but I wonder if that is
really true. 
   



Right now my phosphorus levels are low, both absolutely and relative to 
calcium. The problem I'm overcoming is apparently calcium overload. I'm 
supplementing with bioavailable calcium and avoiding all inorganic 
sources. As I'm slowly getting rid of the precipitated calcium, the 
phosphorus levels are supposed to rise. 

It's not easy to bring up phosphorus levels. It's supposed to take 
months.


Body chemistry is not simple. sigh

 




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Re: CSRoot Canals

[T J Garland]

My dentist told me that  mine would move ---ten years ago.. He was wrong.
- Original Message - 
From: Pat pattycake29...@yahoo.com
To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: CSRoot Canals


 At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are
 very bad.  So, what is one to do?  I have a molar,
 bottom, second from back, that is broken, had a
 filling down to the root, and is now covered with a
 crown to hold it all together.  If I chew on it, it
 sends an electric shock type pain occassionally.  I
 discussed options with my dentist.  He said you can't
 just pull it because then all the other teeth would
 shift to fill up the space.  To put an artificial
 tooth in there, he'd have to grind down the teeth next
 to it to attach anchors, but he's unwilling to do that
 since one is a perfect tooth that's never had a
 filling.  To put an implanted tooth in, first he has
 to pull the tooth, after that's healed months later,
 surgically implant the base, and then about 6 months
 after all that you get a tooth attached.  He
 recommends root canal, ...he said it has a very high
 success rate.  He said they don't remove the crown,
 just drill through it and then fill it up afterwards. 
 I said I've read things that say they're not good for
 you and I know a couple people who've had problems
 with pain afterwards, but he said things are so
 exaggerated on the internet and that most people never
 have a problem.  I've been going to him since '89 and
 I know he wants what's best for me.  He doesn't even
 do root canals himself...sends people to an
 endodontist.  For now, I'll just keep chewing on one
 side mostly, although it's sometimes difficult to do. 
 So, what would YOU do if it was your bad tooth?  
 
   Pat
 
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Re: CSRoot Canals

[debbiegerard99]

I stupidly had two mollars removed  twenty years ago and nothing 
movedbut..I have seen it happen with others.debbie
-- Original message -- 
From: T J Garland noblemet...@bellsouth.net 

 My dentist told me that mine would move ---ten years ago.. He was wrong. 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Pat 
 To: silver list 
 Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:56 AM 
 Subject: CSRoot Canals 
 
 
  At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are 
  very bad. So, what is one to do? I have a molar, 
  bottom, second from back, that is broken, had a 
  filling down to the root, and is now covered with a 
  crown to hold it all together. If I chew on it, it 
  sends an electric shock type pain occassionally. I 
  discussed options with my dentist. He said you can't 
  just pull it because then all the other teeth would 
  shift to fill up the space. To put an artificial 
  tooth in there, he'd have to grind down the teeth next 
  to it to attach anchors, but he's unwilling to do that 
  since one is a perfect tooth that's never had a 
  filling. To put an implanted tooth in, first he has 
  to pull the tooth, after that's healed months later, 
  surgically implant the base, and then about 6 months 
  after all that you get a tooth attached. He 
  recommends root canal, ...he said it has a very high 
  success rate. He said they don't remove the crown, 
  just drill through it and then fill it up afterwards. 
  I said I've read things that say they're not good for 
  you and I know a couple people who've had problems 
  with pain afterwards, but he said things are so 
  exaggerated on the internet and that most people never 
  have a problem. I've been going to him since '89 and 
  I know he wants what's best for me. He doesn't even 
  do root canals himself...sends people to an 
  endodontist. For now, I'll just keep chewing on one 
  side mostly, although it's sometimes difficult to do. 
  So, what would YOU do if it was your bad tooth? 
  
  Pat 
  
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CSNanobacteria

[Terry Chamberlin]

Reading Mike Monet’s opinions regarding nanobacteria,
I did my own research. What I found caused me to
conclude differently than Mike. The following sites
have specific information on the topic:

www.joimr.org/phorum/read.php?f=2i=42t=42

www.crohns.org/articles/2000_10_185-95_jmm.htm

www.personalconsult.com/articles/lymecellwalldeficiency.html

The next site is rather technical, but very
enlightening. The Th1 (T-helper) inflammatory
response occurs in reaction to the invasion of cells
by extremely tiny bacteria. These parasitic bacteria
are also called pleomorphic (many shapes) or L-form
(Lister) or Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) or cell wall
divergent or nanobacteria. It goes on further to make
the point that, far from being effective, some
antibiotics actually cause CWD bacteria.

www.arrowheadhealthworks.com/Mattmnbk.htm

The next site states, Rheumatoid Arthritis and
Multiple Sclerosis--The Cause May Be in the Blood.
Since many folks are having good success fighting MS
with generous amounts of CS, the implications are
positive. 

The term stealth pathogens refers to bacteria that
have cell walls that are deficient in shape,
structure, rigidity, and/or layering. This feature
enables such bacteria (CWD, or cell wall deficient) to
easily move DNA between cells and for groups of CWD
bacteria to fuse together and facilitate genetic
experiments, explains microbiologist Lida Holmes
Mattman, Ph.D., a leading authority in this field.

Such genetic experiments can include many of
today's more baffling autoimmune diseases such as MS
and rheumatoid arthritis, along with other forms of
arthritis, septicemia, meningitis, urinary tract
infections, heart valve infection, eye inflammations,
and a host of other maladies, says Dr. Mattman.
These organisms are clandestine, almost
unrecognizable, and omnipresent, says Dr. Mattman.
They are capable of considerable shape-changing and
growth resulting in disease-hence the apt term,
stealth pathogens.

In fact, the cell shapes produced by a diminished,
discontinuous, or absent cell wall are almost
endlessly variegated and work their way into all
aspects of microbe participation in life. They're
known by various technical names, according to the
degree to which they've lost their cell wall:
spheroplast, protoplast, L-phase, L-forms,
transitionals, and mycoplasma. According to some
physicians, mycoplasma, which are unable to make any
cell wall whatsoever and are highly divergent in type,
may be involved in the initiation of cancer.

The definition/description of 'mycoplasma' would apply
as well to 'nanobacteria'. 

www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/stealth.htm 



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Re: CSNanobacteria

[Mike Monett]

  Terry Chamberlin tcj...@yahoo.ca wrote:

  [...]

   The definition/description of 'mycoplasma' would apply as  well to
   'nanobacteria'.

  
  Nanobacterium sanguineum  was proposed in 1998 as an  explanation of
  certain kinds of pathologic calcification (apatite in kidney stones)
  by Finnish  researcher  Olavi Kajander and  Turkish  researcher Neva
  Ciftcioglu, working at the University of Kuopio in Finland.

  According to  the   researchers   the  particles  self-replicated in
  microbiological culture, and the researchers further reported having
  identified a DNA sequence.

  Later studies by another group reached different results, suggesting
  peculiar yet inanimate etiology of the disease. A paper published in
  2000 by  a team led by John Cisar of the US  National  Institutes of
  Health proposed that the self-replication was, in fact, an unusual
  form of crystaline growth, and that contamination may have  been the
  source of the DNA. However, the Cisar group did not as part of their
  study examine   nanobacteria   samples   from   the  Kajander group,
  therefore critics  observed that without such a  control  sample the
  assertion that these were self-replicating crystals or contamination
  had not been substantiated.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanobacteria

  

  Nanobacteria have no relation to the pathogens you discussed.

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm


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Re: CSbody chemistry, mineral imbalances, was Re: CSbest vitamin c

[starshar]

I earned my Certificate in Nutrition for the most part by learning/studying 
the works of Melvin Page, DDS.  (I think the Weston Price site may have info 
on Page, also the Price Pottenger site).


Page taught that the ideal blood levels of CA and P (phosphorus) are 10 and 
4.5. It is the ratio, however, that is the most important factor, he said. 
CA should always be 2 and a half times the P.


For a long time, I'd check the routine blood work my doc ordered and I'd 
make adjustments to my supplements based on this ratio.
About 10 yrs ago my blood work came back absent the P. I asked my doc what 
happened and was told that the insurance companies decided to go by the 
Medicare guidelines and Medicare had decided that P was irrelevant! 
(stifling rant)


Now when I walk out of doc's office with lab slip in hand, I just check off 
Phosphorus before I go to the lab. I did ask my doc if this would be 
okjust in case the PTB would throw me in jail or something. G.


It was P that got me over a horrible fibromyalgia attack back in the late 
90s. I don't remember now if I had a current lab report when I took the P. 
What I have discovered is that when my P gets low or out of ratio  to CA, my 
teeth will start staining. This could be just an overly alkaline condition 
systemically, but P is an acid mineral and it always works for me.
At that time my neck was so tight that I had pain from the trapezius all the 
way up the side of my head, and I was immobilized---couldn't drive or even 
sleep anywhere but a reclining chair. Then I noticed my darkening teeth. P 
cured me of that bout in a few weeks.


It's not easy to find phosphorus. Any practitioner that carries Standard 
Process products could provide their Phosfood.  A websearch for 
orthophosphoric acid should produce at least one source.


After reading what I just wrote, I realized that it sounds so pat. NOT. 
Metabolic balancing is a subject that continues to drive me crazy!


FWIW,
Sharon


From: sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 3:42 PM


Body chemistry is further confused by the fact that the body has a set 
point for blood levels of calcium, and if you don't get enough or what 
you take in is not properly utilized the body will remove calcium from the 
bones to maintain the blood levels. So I believe that blood levels of 
calcium and other minerals are not a very good indicator of what is really 
going on, or what the state of calcium in the body really is. Blood levels 
are therefore not totally reliable, but a poor tool is better than none, 
maybe.
I myelf have been going by The Metabolic Typing Diet, which gives examples 
of different metabolic types needing different supplementation or diets 
that sometimes contradicts the blood results. There really is no one size 
fits all way to deal with mineral imbalances, or even vitamin 
deficiencies according to that book.

sol

M. G. Devour wrote:


Sol wrote:


Without a proper calcium/phosphorus ratio, mammals can't properly use
calcium. The conventional wisdom seems to be that humans get plenty of
phosphorus and don't need to worry about it, but I wonder if that is
really true.


Right now my phosphorus levels are low, both absolutely and relative to 
calcium. The problem I'm overcoming is apparently calcium overload. I'm 
supplementing with bioavailable calcium and avoiding all inorganic 
sources. As I'm slowly getting rid of the precipitated calcium, the 
phosphorus levels are supposed to rise.

It's not easy to bring up phosphorus levels. It's supposed to take months.

Body chemistry is not simple. sigh



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Re: CSRoot Canals

[DebMark]

I had a root canal 30 years ago, which after 8 years I started to get abscesses 
just below it.  Got antibiotic, went away, only to return again 2 months later. 
 This went on for approx. 1 year when I said pull the tooth, I'd rather an 
empty space.  We'll work on a partial later.  Well, it healed and not more than 
3 months later, another abscess.  I would literally pop the abscess through the 
gum.   Finally, after much time and pain, I went to an oral surgeon, who said 
they didn't see much through the X-ray, he just thought he'd have to scrap the 
bone.  Ha Ha Ha on meonce he opened up the gum, I had an infection in my 
jawbone that they couldn't see in the X-ray (it just looked like a shadow).  
Well, it turned into a 3 hour surgery.  Scared the hell out of my mom who had 
come with me.  From that point on, I refused any root canals until this past 
year.  I was a child of the early 60's and every pin hole cavity the dentist 
drilled out the hole tooth.   Partials (removable) don't work.  Very 
uncomfortable.  Permanent bridges are good unless there is nothing to anchor 
into.  Then you have to look to the dental implant.  I haven't done that as of 
yet but someday I might.  Be careful of everything and question 
everythingmake sure your dentist isn't just making you as his payment on 
his $40,000 boat.I am 48 and I wish I knew back then what I know now... 

My kids get non-amalgam fillings...and nothing else.  And I am right there when 
it's done.  I have a great kids dentist and my current dentist is also in his 
practice and doesn't push anything on me.  Leaves all the decisions up to 
me...no pressure.  They should all be like that.   

Question everything

Debbie
  - Original Message - 
  From: debbiegerar...@comcast.net 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:26 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRoot Canals



  I stupidly had two mollars removed  twenty years ago and nothing 
movedbut..I have seen it happen with others.debbie
-- Original message -- 
From: T J Garland noblemet...@bellsouth.net 

 My dentist told me that mine would move ---ten years ago.. He was wrong. 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Pat 
 To: silver list 
 Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:56 AM 
 Subject: CSRoot Canals 
 
 
  At the Dr. Huggins website, he says root canals are 
  very bad. So, what is one to do? I have a molar, 
  bottom, second from back, that is broken, had a 
  filling down to the root, and is now covered with a 
  crown to hold it all together. If I chew on it, it 
  sends an electric shock type pain occassionally. I 
  discussed options with my dentist. He said you can't 
  just p! ull it because then all the other teeth would 
  shift to fill up the space. To put an artificial 
  tooth in there, he'd have to grind down the teeth next 
  to it to attach anchors, but he's unwilling to do that 
  since one is a perfect tooth that's never had a 
  filling. To put an implanted tooth in, first he has 
  to pull the tooth, after that's healed months later, 
  surgically implant the base, and then about 6 months 
  after all that you get a tooth attached. He 
  recommends root canal, ...he said it has a very high 
  success rate. He said they don't remove the crown, 
  just drill through it and then fill it up afterwards. 
  I said I've read things that say they're not good for 
  you and I know a couple people who've had problems 
  with pain afterwards, but he said things are so 
  exaggerated on the i! nternet and that most people never 
  have a problem. I've been going to him since '89 and 
  I know he wants what's best for me. He doesn't even 
  do root canals himself...sends people to an 
  endodontist. For now, I'll just keep chewing on one 
  side mostly, although it's sometimes difficult to do. 
  So, what would YOU do if it was your bad tooth? 
  
  Pat 
  
  __ 
  Do You Yahoo!? 
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 
  
  
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Re: CSThe Immune System ( 20 % )Thymic protein A

[Jonathan B. Britten]

There are many criticisms of NASA, and many obviously justified.  But 
the research on nanobacteria stemmed from verifiable changes in the 
health of astronauts -- dramatically increased calcification in the 
body -- and the search for the cause and solution.   Maybe nanobacteria 
research is barking up the wrong tree, but I don't have enough 
knowledge about the topic to say so.   It certainly sounds plausible.




On Sunday, Jul 16, 2006, at 10:35 Asia/Tokyo, Mike Monett wrote:


You are  kidding. NASA is now funding projects to  study antigravity
  formed above  a  rotating  disk, and  ion  lifters  which  have been
  analyzed and proven to be unscalable. Complete waste of  money. 



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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Do you know about creamy white unpasteurized honey?  I bought this once 
-- from the refrigerated foods section -- and liked it.  From Canada as 
I recall.   What makes the white creamy texture I know not.


Regarding buckwheat honey, mentioned in another message,  I heard on 
PBS that this is one of the most powerful antioxidant foods known.




JBB


On Sunday, Jul 16, 2006, at 15:24 Asia/Tokyo, Gunar wrote:


Hello John -- sorry, but you are mistaken about candied honey
being impure: ... just the opposite is true; candied or crystalised
honey occurs when the honey is raw



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CS[RE]CSsinus infection Brooks B.

[brooks76009]

   Dear Shirley,
   I will try, briefly, to give a quick summary of the protocol I used.  I employed the general suggestions given in Gary Craig's EFT Manual.  I used direct statements which included the brief identity of the affected part/condition.  I used the unmodified basic protocol  (all of it)  two or three times dailybut being sure to have one of them the last thing before going to sleep at night.  I repeated the tapping procedure (together with the mantra) three times for each location  (using a minimum of seven tapes for each location---each time the procedure was employed.  I was "shocked" at the degree of relief...and the speed of the occurrence of the improvementof my insomnia (three days for SIGNIFICANT improvement).  This condition had been manifest for the immediately past 10 years.and NOTHING attempted yielded any measurable...realcorrection, prior to applying this extraordinarily simplistic protocol.  I was even more impressed by the improvement !
 in my chronic sinus drainageas no drug-based therapy had ever successfully addressed that issue.  I am not recommending EFT as a treatment for anything-just relating my personal experience.  If it was a PLACEBO EFFECT, it was the most powerful of which I have ever heard.  Do understand, a majority of our staff are DEEPLY involved in the more CONVENTIONAL aspects of the mainstream scientific/medical paradigmthan am Iconsequently, a significant number consider "spontaneous correction" a more tenable explanationthan assigning any credible effect to the EFT protocols.   Their intellectual predications are of no real moment to mehowever.  Personal experience displays the highest flag.at least to me.  [ As a matter of record, few of them enjoy more extensive academic/professional qualificationsthan do I.]
I hope these comments are of some value to you.  I must go now.
My Best Regards and Good Wishes to You,  Brooks Bradley.














-[ Received Mail Content ]--
>Subject : CS>sinus infection Brooks B.
>Date : Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:45:42 -0700
>From : "Shirley Reed" 
>To : silver-list@eskimo.com
>
>  Brooks, can you tell more about just how you applied the EFT procedure?
>For instance, how many times per day did you tap?  Exactly what line -up of
>tapping points did you use?  (There are many of these)   Any shortcuts?  Did
>you tap at a particular time each day?  Etc.  pj   pj
>



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Re: CSNanobacteria

[Duncan Crow]

Interesting that Dr. Robert O. Becker proposed a crystalline 
origin of life which somewhat later was clad in protein, in his 
book Body Electric, which was published I think in 1985. He said 
it was the most probable because it provides the necessary 
structure, the mechanism to self repair, and a variable current 
carrying ability are built in properties, or words to that 
effect.

Duncan

   Later studies by another group reached different results, suggesting
   peculiar yet inanimate etiology of the disease. A paper published in
   2000 by  a team led by John Cisar of the US  National  Institutes of
   Health proposed that the self-replication was, in fact, an unusual
   form of crystaline growth, and that contamination may have  been the
   source of the DNA. However, the Cisar group did not as part of their
   study examine   nanobacteria   samples   from   the  Kajander group,
   therefore critics  observed that without such a  control  sample the
   assertion that these were self-replicating crystals or contamination
   had not been substantiated.
 
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanobacteria
 
   
 
   Nanobacteria have no relation to the pathogens you discussed.
 
   Regards,
 
   Mike Monett
 
   Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
   http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
   SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
   http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
   Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
   http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm
 
 
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Re: CSNanobacteria

[Mike Monett]

  Duncan Crow duncanc...@shaw.ca wrote:

   Interesting that  Dr.  Robert  O.  Becker  proposed  a crystalline
   origin of  life which somewhat later was clad in  protein,  in his
   book Body  Electric, which was published I think in 1985.  He said
   it was  the  most  probable   because  it  provides  the necessary
   structure, the  mechanism to self repair, and  a  variable current
   carrying ability are built in properties, or words to that effect.

  Duncan

  1. Nanobacteria are clad in apatite, not protein.

  2. Body  Electric  is   a   misnomer.   Electrons   do  not  flow in
  electrolytes.

  The current  flow  in  electrolytes, including  our  bodies,  is via
  anions and  cations. As shown in the Theory section on my  web site,
  the movement  of  charge  carriers  is  dominated  by  diffusion and
  convection. In  fact, the direction of charge flow may  be  at right
  angles, or  even opposite to, the direction of  an  applied electric
  field.

  3. There is no evidence that nanobacteria self-repair.

  4. Dunan, earlier, you stated:

  
   Mike,

   I consider  that if a few bacterial  contaminants  might replicate
   enough to  cause symptoms in 35-40 years, decreasing  the  time to
   symptoms can be accomplished also by increasing these contaminants
   through a program of repeated exposure.

   Double the  contaminants, half the time to symptoms, and  40 times
   the contaminants  in a short program could produce symptoms  in as
   little as a bit more than a year.

  [...]

   Duncan

  

  Would the symptoms still appear in a year if an infant were infected
  at birth by a severely infected mother?

  Please stop trying to redirect my replies so they disappear from the
  silverlist by changing the Reply-To tag to point to yourself.

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm


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Re: CSThe Immune System ( 20 % )Thymic protein A

[Mike Monett]

  Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp wrote:

   There are  many criticisms of NASA, and many  obviously justified.
   But the  research on nanobacteria stemmed from  verifiable changes
   in the health of astronauts - dramatically increased calcification
   in the  body  - and the search for the cause  and  solution. Maybe
   nanobacteria research  is barking up the wrong tree,  but  I don't
   have enough  knowledge  about the topic to  say  so.  It certainly
   sounds plausible.

  Hi Jonathan,

  I believe NASA showed long ago that zero gravity was responsible for
  loss of  calcium from the bones. This is why  astronauts  go through
  hours of exercise each day.

  As far as the nanobaceria research being conducted at NASA, I posted
  Nanobac Life Sciences press release earlier:

  
  NASA's Johnson Space Center to Study Nanobacteria

  Nanobac Life Sciences, Inc. (OTCPK: NNBP) is pleased to announce the
  signing of  a Space Act Agreement with NASA's  Johnson  Space Center
  (JSC), Houston Texas, to collaborate on research on Nanobacteria and
  its nature  and  role in pathological  calcification,  including the
  detection and  treatment  of the pathogen. Since  Astronauts  may be
  more prone to an increased rate of pathological  calcification while
  in a  zero gravity environment, the collaboration will  bring  a new
  approach to  NASA's need to better understand the  effects  of long-
  term space travel on humans. In addition, Nanobac's work  provides a
  model for  studying mineralized organic matters that could  aid NASA
  in the  search  for extraterrestrial  life.  Nanobac  co-founder and
  Director of Science, Neva Ciftcioglu, Ph.D. will remain at  NASA JSC
  as Senior  Scientist and principal researcher. Under  the agreement,
  NASA will  provide workspace at JSC for Nanobac's  personnel located
  at JSC.  The agreement further provides Nanobac  the  opportunity to
  work together  with  a multidisciplinary  team  of  NASA researchers
  while having  access to basic laboratory  services  for nanobacteria
  science, including   electron   microscopy,   molecular  biology and
  geology-mineralogy  research   facilities.   Projects   ranging from
  searching for  nanobacteria  biosignatures in earth  fossils  and in
  Mars meteorites  to diagnosing and  treating  nanobacteria infection
  are anticipated.  Nanobac  will   provide   JSC  with  equipment and
  specialty supplies   for   nanobacteria   research   and   apply its
  pioneering diagnostic and treatment experience in the field. We are
  pleased to  be able to provide our Director of Science  to  NASA for
  these important   projects,   commented   John   Stanton, Nanobac's
  President and  Chief Executive Officer. We look forward  to  a very
  rich and  rewarding research collaboration with NASA.  We appreciate
  the opportunity  to  work with some of the  country's  most talented
  scientists. This announcement shall not be construed to  imply that
  NASA currently  or  in the future endorses or  sponsors  any NANOBAC
  product or service.

  http://www.comspacewatch.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=15024

  
  Nanobac is  owned by the Finnish researches who published  the first
  report. Their  company is conducting the experiments,  and supplying
  the materials  including the methods and products  needed  to detect
  nanobacteria.

  What probability would you extend to the possibility that they won't
  be able to find any nanobactera?

  My guess is zero. In fact, they will probably come to the conclusion
  there is far more than expected, and more studies are needed.

  Oops - that has already come true: (NB = nanobacteria)

  
  To further comprehend the implications of NB, trials  were conducted
  at NASA  to  examine  NB, in a  bioreactor  chamber  which simulates
  conditions of space travel. In this microgravity environment, NB was
  found to  multiply five times faster compared to  normal  gravity on
  Earth, supporting  earlier discoveries that microbes  have radically
  different behavior  in weightless environments. NB is also  shown to
  possibly be  an  infectious risk for crew  members  living  in close
  quarters.

 
http://www.biologynews.net/archives/2005/03/17/nasa_links_nanobacteria_to_kidney_stones_and_other_diseases.html

  

  I wonder  how they managed to simulate a  microgravity environment
  in a bioreactor chamber that is bolted to the ground?

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  

Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine

[sol]

Well, I guess I'm still confused. Chemical names that sound similar are 
always mixing themselves up in my mind.
Maybe it was nitric something, or nitrous something I was thinking of, 
or thought I remembered.

oh, well, not important, as I sure don't intend to mess with HVAC.
sol

Mike Monett wrote:


 As far  as I recall, HVAC can make various nitrous  oxides,  some of
 which are  toxic. I'm not sure if any nitrates are  generated, which
 would be  needed  for  nitric acid, which would  be  needed  to make
 silver nitrate.

 We would need a real good chemist to sort this out,




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Re: CSThe National Uncomplementary Centre for Alternative Medicine

[Mike Monett]

  sol sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com wrote:

   Well, I  guess  I'm  still  confused.  Chemical  names  that sound
   similar are always mixing themselves up in my mind.

   Maybe it was nitric something, or nitrous something I was thinking
   of, or thought I remembered.

   oh, well, not important, as I sure don't intend to mess with HVAC.

  sol

  Hi sol,

  You are a genius and don't know it. You were right all along. Nitric
  acid is formed from nitrogen dioxide in the arc dissolving in water.

  Did you  miss my reply showing an experiment with an  arc  and moist
  blue litmus paper? Just in case, here it is again:

  
  You can  duplicate the process on a small scale  with  the apparatus
  shown at the top of this page. Bend the lower ends of the stiff iron
  wires so  they  form a spark gap with about 2  between  the points.
  Hang a moist strip of blue litmus paper over one.

  Connect the  two  wires to the high-voltage terminals  of  the spark
  coil. Let  the spark jump the gap continuously for  several minutes.
  The spark  produces nitrogen dioxide. This in turn  reacts  with the
  moisture in  the  litmus paper. The  litmus  turns  pink, indicating
  nitric acid has formed.

  http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/03/07/the-gas-that-makes-you-laugh/

  
  The nitrogen dioxide dissolves in the water and dissociates  to form
  nitric acid  much  like  carbon  dioxide.  But  the  dissociation is
  probably much greater.

  The nitric  acid combines with silver ions to  form  silver nitrate.
  This is  a  very  small concentration, to be  sure,  but  the silver
  nitrate is much less effective than silver ions.

  So you were right all along!

  Good idea  to not mess with HVAC. Besides not working very  well for
  making cs, it can be lethal!

  Regards,

  Mike Monett

  Antiviral Antibacterial Silver Solution:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/index.htm
  SPICE Analysis of Crystal Oscillators:
  http://silversol.freewebpage.org/spice/xtal/clapp.htm
  Noise-Rejecting Wideband Sampler:
  http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/sampler/intro.htm


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CS

[david]

Most of my friends and relatives accept without question that  
vitamins and minerals (including metals like iron) are safe to  
consume in moderate doses and are essential for good health. Yet when  
I suggest to some of them that silver is a safe mineral that kills  
germs I'm usually greeted with a look of amusement that visibly turns  
to horror as it dawns on them that I'm serious. You can just about  
see the cogs turning over. (My God... he's a fruitcake and I never  
realised it! How many other signs have I missed? Where's the exit?)


If they can't escape, or say what they really think because we are in  
mixed company, they try to debate or reason with me using the  
intuitive arguments of the skeptic.  The link below lists the usual  
'tricks' of the skeptic, and its pretty entertaining.


http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/skeptictricks.htm

I recommend you go to the site and read the whole thing because it's  
not too long and I didn't write it. But here's my poorly condensed  
version with some, occasionally silly, comment added.


Regards
David


TRICKS OF SKEPTICS


1) RAISING THE BAR , Or IMPOSSIBLE PERFECTION: This trick consists of  
demanding a new, higher and more difficult standard of evidence.  (A  
mountain of testimonials and lab tests will never be enough).


2.) SOCK 'EM WITH OCCAM:  Occam's Razor, a principle of knowledge  
theory states that the simplest explanation which fits all the facts  
is to be preferred.  (If you haven't had a cold in 4 years its just  
because you've been lucky).


3.) EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS: Extraordinary claims, say the skeptic,  
require extraordinary evidence. (Why is the claim that silver kills  
germs so extraordinary?)


4.) STUPID, CRAZY LIARS:  Researchers who report anything which  
displeases the skeptic will be accused of incompetence, mental  
illness or dishonesty, or some combination of the three. (You've  
fallen for a scam.)


5.) THE SANTA CLAUS GAMBIT:  (Goes like this. Oh so you probably  
believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too. Foul language is  
the only reasonable answer to that one).


6.) SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF EVIDENCE: The skeptic insists that he  
doesn't have to provide evidence to support his side of the argument.  
(You're crazy if you believe that,  but my evidence is  
indisputable... its common knowledge... it comes from ...er  watching  
TV.)


7.) YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE: The skeptic may insist that he is  
relieved of the burden of evidence and argument because you can't  
prove a negative.  (Well actually theres a ton of evidence proving a  
lot of approved drugs are much less effective and far more dangerous  
dangerous than silver but YOU won't read it. )


8.) THE BIG LIE: (The skeptic says he doesn't take silver but he's  
perfectly healthy.)


9.) DOUBT CASTING: This trick consists of dwelling on minor or  
trivial flaws in the evidence.  (But interestingly this trick doesn't  
carry any weight when you try it in reverse,  e.g... The Rosemary  
Jacobs case is over 50 years old and she never drank colloidal silver  
in here life but try convincing them of that.)


10.) THE SNEER:  (A good time to end the discussion and get another  
beer)


* * *

Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Dennis Gulenchin]

Hi Gunar,
The label on the buckwheat honey that I have says that it is 
unpasturized so it should have crystalised so could there be another 
reason why it is still runny after being over a year old?

Dennis

Gunar wrote:



- Original Message - From: John McLean h...@bigpond.net.au
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat


An other thing, I remember was that if honey candied it was impure 
honey, and I can't remember what caused it to candy. It appears 
that pure honey will mainintain its liquid form for years.

John in Australia



Hello John -- sorry, but you are mistaken about candied honey
being impure: ... just the opposite is true; candied or crystalised
honey occurs when the honey is raw, that is, when the honey has
NOT been subjected to high enough temperature in processing it.

Manuka honey is a perfect example of raw honey, which is crystalised.

Honey which remains runny, or liquid, has had its enzymes
destroyed by heat during processing, and so has lost much of its
health and medicinal value.

Regards,
Gunar in Sydney.

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Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat

[Gunar]

Hi Dennis -- I only write what I read.:-)
What I read was that raw honey will crystallise,
and honey extraction with heat treatment over
a specific temperature kills enzymes, with the
added result that such honey stays runny.

Why not e-mail a couple of producers of raw honey?
The one I posted to, did not bother answering...

Regards,
Gunar 

- Original Message - 
From: Dennis Gulenchin dgulenc...@mts.net

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: CSHoney as an antibiotic - heat



Hi Gunar,
The label on the buckwheat honey that I have says that it is 
unpasturized so it should have crystalised so could there be another 
reason why it is still runny after being over a year old?

Dennis



--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com

The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down...

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com