Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dan Nave]

Cyclamate C6H12NNaO3S is not the same as Saccharin C7H5NO3S.

Dan



On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Ode Coyote  wrote:
>
>
>  Sodium Cyclamate was banned for decades in America  [Sacharin ]
>  It turned out that the scientific testing was so flawed [funded by the
> sugar industry? ] and the public reaction so myth driven that none of it
> made any sense at all upon re-examination.
>  Now it's back.
>
> If the drug sniffing dogs don't trigger on the package and it's low value,
> it's not likely that customs will even look at it to even read the customs
> label.
> The worst that will happen is seizure...try again.
>  Call it anything you want. Be very generic like "Health Products" or
> "Consumer Goods" which is how online pharmacies get prescription drugs
> across borders.
>
> I send Gel Kits all over the world as "Make your own Gel Kit"  and that
> powder looks like the finest Cocaine.  None have not made it...none have
> even been opened as far as I know.
>
> So long as the dogs don't bark and the border bandits get a cut...no
> problem.
>
> Ode
>
>
> At 10:51 AM 3/4/2010 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> Me too! I have a good friend in Canada, but if I had her send me some, do
>> doubt she would get in trouble.
>> I wonder if there is a way to say what it is, not lie, but still have it
>> be innocuous to customs?
>> sol
>>
>> At 08:59 PM 3/3/2010, you wrote:
>>>
>>> Cyclamate is the best tasting artificial sweetener ever!!!
>>>
>>> I really miss it.  ;-))
>>>
>>> I do...
>>
>>
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>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

  Sodium Cyclamate was banned for decades in America  [Sacharin ]
 It turned out that the scientific testing was so flawed [funded by the 
sugar industry? ] and the public reaction so myth driven that none of it 
made any sense at all upon re-examination.

 Now it's back.

If the drug sniffing dogs don't trigger on the package and it's low value, 
it's not likely that customs will even look at it to even read the customs 
label.

The worst that will happen is seizure...try again.
 Call it anything you want. Be very generic like "Health Products" or 
"Consumer Goods" which is how online pharmacies get prescription drugs 
across borders.


I send Gel Kits all over the world as "Make your own Gel Kit"  and that 
powder looks like the finest Cocaine.  None have not made it...none have 
even been opened as far as I know.


So long as the dogs don't bark and the border bandits get a cut...no problem.

Ode


At 10:51 AM 3/4/2010 -0700, you wrote:
Me too! I have a good friend in Canada, but if I had her send me some, do 
doubt she would get in trouble.
I wonder if there is a way to say what it is, not lie, but still have it 
be innocuous to customs?

sol

At 08:59 PM 3/3/2010, you wrote:

Cyclamate is the best tasting artificial sweetener ever!!!

I really miss it.  ;-))

I do...



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[sol]

Me too! I have a good friend in Canada, but if I had her send me 
some, do doubt she would get in trouble.
I wonder if there is a way to say what it is, not lie, but still have 
it be innocuous to customs?

sol

At 08:59 PM 3/3/2010, you wrote:

Cyclamate is the best tasting artificial sweetener ever!!!

I really miss it.  ;-))

I do...



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dan Nave]

Cyclamate is the best tasting artificial sweetener ever!!!

I really miss it.  ;-))

I do...

Dan

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:03 PM, sol  wrote:
> Well, I'm sorry to tell you but MY personal experience is that I feel the
> same whether having some or being off it completely for years at a time. I
> just feel no adverse effects from it. It was one of the first things I
> looked at given my known health issues.
> If removing something for several years from one's diet doesn't fix
> anything, and starting up again does not increase anything, I don't see the
> point, myself.
> And I have read that it is an individual sensitivity issue, and for us at
> this house it does seem to be just that, and we have decided not to worry
> about it.
> BTW, I do agree the FDA is lax on this, and don't really care  how many
> adverse reports they receive. I even read somewhere that they long ago
> stopped collecting adverse event data on it.
> Now, if they were to bring back Cyclamate, which were exonerated umpty ump
> years ago I'd be a happy camper.  Meantime, I try to not use too much of any
> sweetener, but I don't have any fear of a bit of aspartame now and then.
> sol
>
> At 11:25 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol, and has also been
>> cited as causing cancer among other things.  I believe it is on the agenda
>> of the FDA at the moment as so many have called for a ban on it.  It was
>> banned for many years until Reagan got into power and then it was allowed,
>> as its discoverer was a friend of his (so I read.)  My friend suffers from
>> really sensitive skin on her legs and feet and cannot bear to have them even
>> brushed up against.  Only one of many of her ailments, so I would have
>> thought that to keep drinking something which is known to damage nerves
>> would be the height of folly.  dee
>
>
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>

RE: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

 Yes it is her fault for not recognizing perceptual limitations and acting 
accordingly.
 She knows that, unlike the younger generation that believes the world 
should be perfected for them...or else.

 Had it been a root in the woods, same thing, but no one but God to blame.
 Blame God..He doesn't care, nor will He pay...nor will He remove 
offending roots.

" I tripped and the planet came up and smacked me.  BAD planet! "

 Because one man be blind, there shalt be no traffic in all the world?
..don't think that'll ever happen. [If I'm wrong, we're all doomed]
So maybe someone should have chained Mom to a chair.
Somehow, I think she'd rather be dead than "protected"...like... the day I 
can't go for a walk, just shoot me, I'm done.


The only way you won't make a mistake is to have no choices to make.

ode [When I hit that snooze button, the sun stops rising and the universe 
awaits my pleasure in waking...dream on.]



At 03:38 PM 3/2/2010 -0500, you wrote:

This is all well and good -- and typically I keep my mouth shut on something
like this, but I had to chime in. Consider those that have challenges,
albeit physical, handicapped or whatnot...little things such as broken
pavement are true hazards. My Mom at 77 years of age is in pretty good
physical condition, yet she has a depth perception (due to a macular pucker
in one eye -- which has since undergone surgery...we're hoping for great
results). She *couldn't* see the height difference in two slabs of pavement
(which are the sidewalks where she is in florida) and she took a tremendous
spill. Granted...that one or two inch difference to you and I is nothing.
But her fall was so bad that two folks ran right over and helped her up. She
wound up with a black and blue eye, swollen spots all over the side of her
head and body...and was quite sore (and almost petrified) to go outside
again. She did blame herself but if you look at the big picture...is it
really her fault because of her limited eye sight? Things need to be
relatively safe for everyone, not those that are lucky enough to be
physically fit to not have any "issues".

Sorry...struck a chord.

Lisa



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RE: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Lisa]

This is all well and good -- and typically I keep my mouth shut on something
like this, but I had to chime in. Consider those that have challenges,
albeit physical, handicapped or whatnot...little things such as broken
pavement are true hazards. My Mom at 77 years of age is in pretty good
physical condition, yet she has a depth perception (due to a macular pucker
in one eye -- which has since undergone surgery...we're hoping for great
results). She *couldn't* see the height difference in two slabs of pavement
(which are the sidewalks where she is in florida) and she took a tremendous
spill. Granted...that one or two inch difference to you and I is nothing.
But her fall was so bad that two folks ran right over and helped her up. She
wound up with a black and blue eye, swollen spots all over the side of her
head and body...and was quite sore (and almost petrified) to go outside
again. She did blame herself but if you look at the big picture...is it
really her fault because of her limited eye sight? Things need to be
relatively safe for everyone, not those that are lucky enough to be
physically fit to not have any "issues".

Sorry...struck a chord.

Lisa

-Original Message-
From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick [mailto:d...@deetroy.org] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:01 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

I'm not arguing with any of that Ode, i.e the suing thing.  I think that
people should be responsible for themselves as far as possible.  I happen to
think that if you trip up a broken pavement, then that's *your* fault, not
the Councils, and you should have looked where you are going!  The same goes
for slipping on a wet floor.  As far as the rest of it goes, I am just going
to agree to disagree.  dee

> 
> 
> Well, I make and use CS because it's something "I" can do.
> When it's not enough, I have no problem hitting the feed and seed store or
asking the dentist for anti-biotics.
> Doctors under attack are more expensive than dentists told about a fantasy
tooth ache, animal drugs are the same as people drugs and I cut out the
middle men that pay $100,000 a year for malpractice insurance...except...if
I choose them wrong, I can't sue for more than being my own dead or disabled
dog...and the lawyers to do that will cost far more than the payoff.
> 
> It probably cost a billion dollars to get Vioxx approved, so I can see why
the resistance to having it yanked because the risk of corking off is .7%
> But lookie.  I hear all the time how the FDA should get out of our lives
on one hand, and burrow further into them on the other.
> What do you WANT?
> Freedom or safety.  You can't have it both ways.
> With freedom comes risk.
> With safety, lack of choice...and you pay for that lack.
> We don't want to pay the FDA the billions it takes to do the testing, so
we pay the "Pharm" in the cost of the drugs that do get approved to cover
those which don't and they write their own ticket accordingly.
> For every billion the "Pharm" spends getting a drug approved, they spend 5
billion on the ones that don't pass the initial phases...and you wonder why
approved drugs cost so much and why they might want to fudge the data just a
little bit and balance the risk of being sued against the probability of
staying solvent.
> The cost of that pill is something like  25 cents for the pill and 25
dollars to insure against possible risks if ANY one dies or comes to harm,
disregarding everyone that doesn't.
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

  The common denominator is "truth in advertising"
 Safety is always relative to threat and a matter of informed choice.
If YOU were in charge of safety, a doctor would make a much better advisor, 
no longer stuffed into a self defense box.


You see "Stossel" this week?

Ode



At 07:39 AM 3/1/2010 -0800, you wrote:

Ode,

I must disagree.  The FDA should be in charge of safety, not 
efficacy. Thus, so long as something isn't going to poison or kill you, 
it should be available regardless of whether or not it works.  Truth in 
advertising is another issue entirely and should not be subjected to FDA 
approval.  There is far too much power within the FDA and it is causing 
us our basic freedoms.  They will soon try and make Vit. C a prescription 
drug (as well as hundreds of other harmless supplements and nutrients) 
even though no one has ever died from it.  I'll take the risk AND my 
freedom to choose how I want to medicate if at all as opposed to having 
my choices suppressed entirely.

- Original Message - From: "Ode Coyote" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I'm not arguing with any of that Ode, i.e the suing thing.  I think that people 
should be responsible for themselves as far as possible.  I happen to think 
that if you trip up a broken pavement, then that's *your* fault, not the 
Councils, and you should have looked where you are going!  The same goes for 
slipping on a wet floor.  As far as the rest of it goes, I am just going to 
agree to disagree.  dee

> 
> 
> Well, I make and use CS because it's something "I" can do.
> When it's not enough, I have no problem hitting the feed and seed store or 
> asking the dentist for anti-biotics.
> Doctors under attack are more expensive than dentists told about a fantasy 
> tooth ache, animal drugs are the same as people drugs and I cut out the 
> middle men that pay $100,000 a year for malpractice insurance...except...if I 
> choose them wrong, I can't sue for more than being my own dead or disabled 
> dog...and the lawyers to do that will cost far more than the payoff.
> 
> It probably cost a billion dollars to get Vioxx approved, so I can see why 
> the resistance to having it yanked because the risk of corking off is .7%
> But lookie.  I hear all the time how the FDA should get out of our lives on 
> one hand, and burrow further into them on the other.
> What do you WANT?
> Freedom or safety.  You can't have it both ways.
> With freedom comes risk.
> With safety, lack of choice...and you pay for that lack.
> We don't want to pay the FDA the billions it takes to do the testing, so we 
> pay the "Pharm" in the cost of the drugs that do get approved to cover those 
> which don't and they write their own ticket accordingly.
> For every billion the "Pharm" spends getting a drug approved, they spend 5 
> billion on the ones that don't pass the initial phases...and you wonder why 
> approved drugs cost so much and why they might want to fudge the data just a 
> little bit and balance the risk of being sued against the probability of 
> staying solvent.
> The cost of that pill is something like  25 cents for the pill and 25 dollars 
> to insure against possible risks if ANY one dies or comes to harm, 
> disregarding everyone that doesn't.
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Bob Banever]

Ode,

I must disagree.  The FDA should be in charge of safety, not efficacy. 
Thus, so long as something isn't going to poison or kill you, it should be 
available regardless of whether or not it works.  Truth in advertising is 
another issue entirely and should not be subjected to FDA approval.  There 
is far too much power within the FDA and it is causing us our basic 
freedoms.  They will soon try and make Vit. C a prescription drug (as well 
as hundreds of other harmless supplements and nutrients) even though no one 
has ever died from it.  I'll take the risk AND my freedom to choose how I 
want to medicate if at all as opposed to having my choices suppressed 
entirely.
- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.





 Well, I make and use CS because it's something "I" can do.
When it's not enough, I have no problem hitting the feed and seed store or 
asking the dentist for anti-biotics.
 Doctors under attack are more expensive than dentists told about a 
fantasy tooth ache, animal drugs are the same as people drugs and I cut 
out the middle men that pay $100,000 a year for malpractice 
insurance...except...if I choose them wrong, I can't sue for more than 
being my own dead or disabled dog...and the lawyers to do that will cost 
far more than the payoff.


It probably cost a billion dollars to get Vioxx approved, so I can see why 
the resistance to having it yanked because the risk of corking off is .7%
But lookie.  I hear all the time how the FDA should get out of our lives 
on one hand, and burrow further into them on the other.

 What do you WANT?
 Freedom or safety.  You can't have it both ways.
With freedom comes risk.
With safety, lack of choice...and you pay for that lack.
We don't want to pay the FDA the billions it takes to do the testing, so 
we pay the "Pharm" in the cost of the drugs that do get approved to cover 
those which don't and they write their own ticket accordingly.
For every billion the "Pharm" spends getting a drug approved, they spend 5 
billion on the ones that don't pass the initial phases...and you wonder 
why approved drugs cost so much and why they might want to fudge the data 
just a little bit and balance the risk of being sued against the 
probability of staying solvent.
The cost of that pill is something like  25 cents for the pill and 25 
dollars to insure against possible risks if ANY one dies or comes to harm, 
disregarding everyone that doesn't.


Taking drugs is not safe and NOT taking drugs when you need some is also 
not safe.



Meanwhile, people make a big stink about CS not having the approval it 
deserves, but won't pay the FDA to do it and the Pharm can't profit from 
it to cover the cost.


Following our OWN logic if the "Pharm" won't spend a billion dollars 
to get CS approved to satisfy OUR demand for safety, it will be outlawed 
and it's all the FDAs fault for not doing what it hasn't been paid to do.
The FDA has done the right thing. "Don't ask and if you do we'll just say 
no to cover our unpaid buttholes." [We don't know, we haven't been paid to 
find out and we have found no reason to want to know OR find out..yet you 
ask us?  ..go away kid, hide in a water closet someplace and jerk your own 
chain.]


If you live your own life and die your own death, you have freedom...but 
it's risky and a sharp mind is gonna be your best and only friend.
If you spend it looking for approval, you'll be licking a lot of corrupt 
boots that pick your pockets to pay for the safety you demand...but at 
least you can blame those boots for the heal grinding on your head when it 
turns out that you are one of those that doesn't fit the odds of success.


"It's YOUR fault that I'm different and ignorant..pay up"  "It's YOUR 
fault that I weighed the risks against benefits and came up short "
No one body can afford that, so every body pays a kings ransom...and the 
oddball STILL corks off. [ Damned if you do, damned if you don't ]

 Get it?

Is it better to have Gov't in control of your choices?
Well, it's hard to sue the Gov't and they can just "print money" to pick 
your pockets behind your back to pay for ten times as many leaches to tell 
you that you have blood to suck, but it's not YOUR blood that's leaving 
the hole in your safety seeking head.


How many people do you want to pay to convince you that your own life 
isn't yours so you don't have to take the risk of living it?.. then bitch 
and moan when you can't, but still have to pay all those people to tell 
you that you aren't damned when any way you look at it, you are. [Nobody 
dies for you and the only difference is

Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Renee]

All men die.  Not all men really live.
William Wallace--Braveheart.

Samala,
Renee

---Original Message---
 
  Freedom or safety.  You can't have it both ways.
With freedom comes risk.
With safety, lack of choice...and you pay for that lack.

Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

 Well, I make and use CS because it's something "I" can do.
When it's not enough, I have no problem hitting the feed and seed store or 
asking the dentist for anti-biotics.
 Doctors under attack are more expensive than dentists told about a 
fantasy tooth ache, animal drugs are the same as people drugs and I cut out 
the middle men that pay $100,000 a year for malpractice 
insurance...except...if I choose them wrong, I can't sue for more than 
being my own dead or disabled dog...and the lawyers to do that will cost 
far more than the payoff.


It probably cost a billion dollars to get Vioxx approved, so I can see why 
the resistance to having it yanked because the risk of corking off is .7%
But lookie.  I hear all the time how the FDA should get out of our lives on 
one hand, and burrow further into them on the other.

 What do you WANT?
 Freedom or safety.  You can't have it both ways.
With freedom comes risk.
With safety, lack of choice...and you pay for that lack.
We don't want to pay the FDA the billions it takes to do the testing, so we 
pay the "Pharm" in the cost of the drugs that do get approved to cover 
those which don't and they write their own ticket accordingly.
For every billion the "Pharm" spends getting a drug approved, they spend 5 
billion on the ones that don't pass the initial phases...and you wonder why 
approved drugs cost so much and why they might want to fudge the data just 
a little bit and balance the risk of being sued against the probability of 
staying solvent.
The cost of that pill is something like  25 cents for the pill and 25 
dollars to insure against possible risks if ANY one dies or comes to harm, 
disregarding everyone that doesn't.


Taking drugs is not safe and NOT taking drugs when you need some is also 
not safe.



Meanwhile, people make a big stink about CS not having the approval it 
deserves, but won't pay the FDA to do it and the Pharm can't profit from it 
to cover the cost.


Following our OWN logic if the "Pharm" won't spend a billion dollars to 
get CS approved to satisfy OUR demand for safety, it will be outlawed and 
it's all the FDAs fault for not doing what it hasn't been paid to do.
The FDA has done the right thing. "Don't ask and if you do we'll just say 
no to cover our unpaid buttholes." [We don't know, we haven't been paid to 
find out and we have found no reason to want to know OR find out..yet you 
ask us?  ..go away kid, hide in a water closet someplace and jerk your own 
chain.]


If you live your own life and die your own death, you have freedom...but 
it's risky and a sharp mind is gonna be your best and only friend.
If you spend it looking for approval, you'll be licking a lot of corrupt 
boots that pick your pockets to pay for the safety you demand...but at 
least you can blame those boots for the heal grinding on your head when it 
turns out that you are one of those that doesn't fit the odds of success.


"It's YOUR fault that I'm different and ignorant..pay up"  "It's YOUR fault 
that I weighed the risks against benefits and came up short "
No one body can afford that, so every body pays a kings ransom...and the 
oddball STILL corks off. [ Damned if you do, damned if you don't ]

 Get it?

Is it better to have Gov't in control of your choices?
Well, it's hard to sue the Gov't and they can just "print money" to pick 
your pockets behind your back to pay for ten times as many leaches to tell 
you that you have blood to suck, but it's not YOUR blood that's leaving the 
hole in your safety seeking head.


How many people do you want to pay to convince you that your own life isn't 
yours so you don't have to take the risk of living it?.. then bitch and 
moan when you can't, but still have to pay all those people to tell you 
that you aren't damned when any way you look at it, you are. [Nobody dies 
for you and the only difference is who you get to blame]


What IS blame?
It's placing ALL the power to make choices into the hands of the people 
that YOU say don't care, making yourself  both innocent and totally 
helpless...your very own victim.


People go to Casinos knowing full well the odds are far and away stacked 
against striking the mother load and hugely stacked towards losing their 
shirts...yet they don't sue the Casino for leaving naked...but when the 
odds are stacked IN their favor but they lose, they do.

Go figger.

In the UK, a thief can sue you if he gets hurt ripping off your house.
So you want Gov't making decisions FOR you?
 Good luck.

 At least in the USA I can still buy a gun on the street and shoot myself 
in the head.


Ode


At 06:45 PM 2/28/2010 +, you wrote:
Well I suppose if we all thought like that, then we wouldn't bother to 
make CS either!  There wouldn't be any point, because we could just go and 
take the anti-biotics the doctor gives us as they may or may not, kill us, 
but hey - who cares - we are going to die of something anyway!  dee


On 28 Feb 2010, at 15:05, Ode Coyote wrote:

>
>
> So how m

Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Well I suppose if we all thought like that, then we wouldn't bother to make CS 
either!  There wouldn't be any point, because we could just go and take the 
anti-biotics the doctor gives us as they may or may not, kill us, but hey - who 
cares - we are going to die of something anyway!  dee

On 28 Feb 2010, at 15:05, Ode Coyote wrote:

> 
> 
> So how many benefited from Vioxx that may have died without it, compared to 
> those that died with it? [I dunno, but that's not the point]
> Absolutism is just not part of reality...there is never just one answer. [But 
> it does make self defense very expensive for a drug company when lawyers 
> prosecute on absolutist terms using absolutist juries ]
> The doctor is required to inform of risks...to the best of his knowledge.  
> Nothing is free of risk.  It's ALL "Relative risk vs probable benefit "
> 
> A doubled risk of heart attack, stroke and death persisted at least a year 
> after people stopped taking withdrawn painkiller Vioxx ..which means "what?  
> Double WHAT risk?
> Does that mean 1 in 10,000 turns into 2 in 10,000 ?
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

So how many benefited from Vioxx that may have died without it, compared to 
those that died with it? [I dunno, but that's not the point]
 Absolutism is just not part of reality...there is never just one answer. 
[But it does make self defense very expensive for a drug company when 
lawyers prosecute on absolutist terms using absolutist juries ]
 The doctor is required to inform of risks...to the best of his 
knowledge.  Nothing is free of risk.  It's ALL "Relative risk vs probable 
benefit "


A doubled risk of heart attack, stroke and death persisted at least a year 
after people stopped taking withdrawn painkiller Vioxx ..which means 
"what?  Double WHAT risk?

Does that mean 1 in 10,000 turns into 2 in 10,000 ?

The eight researchers reported in The Lancet that in the year after the 
2,587-patient study was halted, 34 people who had taken Vioxx and 18 who 
had taken placebo suffered a heart attack, for a 94 percent higher risk 
with Vioxx; strokes occurred in 19 Vioxx users and nine people on placebo, 
for a risk slightly more than double. Altogether, 76 Vioxx users and 46 
placebo takers had a heart attack, stroke, blood clot or died during that 
follow-up year.
So, if you have Arthritis, your risk may be higher of stroke and Vioxx 
doubles that, but Vioxx is only part of the whole problem where WHY you are 
using it plays a role.


According to the study the risk is 1% if you used it and .6 % if you didn't 
with the reason for doing so in common and not using it doesn't mean you 
won't have a stoke in a year.
If it actually does reduce pain and reduces other risks 
like  gastrointestinal inflammation over older anti-inflammatory drugs and 
could also prevent recurrence of colon cancer compared to other 
pain  killers...is that risk acceptable compared to another risk of colon 
cancer coming back or getting a stomach ulcer?


 Aspirin is a derivative of a natural substance and the death toll record 
from using it isn't clean...yet, it's pretty safe, but not as safe as 
marijuana which does have a clean record, yet is illegal.[in most places]

 Aspirin is touted to prevent stroke etc, but also may harm your stomach.
 What if you used less Vioxx with less Aspirin ?

 Second hand smoke kills and is bad, yet riding a bus exposes you to the 
same air born carcinogens spewed out in volumes far greater in a minute 
than a smoker will exhale over his entire shortened lifetime... and that's OK.
 You'd be safer walking down wind of the smoker...and maybe get hit my the 
bus.

No matter what you do, you can die.

 Take the lettuce industry: 5 people get sick and the entire crop is 
recalled and thrown away even though 10,000 people didn't get sick.
How can they stay in business?  Do you really want to eliminate your 
ability to buy lettuce or make it 50 times the price?
 Can the same thing happen if you grow your own lettuce?  Sure it can. But 
the odds are very low still and there is no one to sue.
..not to mention that lettuce has a compound in it similar to Opium which 
has killed many many people, but has also saved many many people from 
suffering intolerable pain.


 The logic is that automobiles should be outlawed because, despite being 
useful in most cases, some people die in them and even though they know 
they can be deadly, people take them to work and some don't make it 
there...and they sometimes kill pedestrians who are avoiding the risks of 
driving.


Don't eat lettuce !  It has Opium in it !
...and you made all the deer and rabbits into junkies by growing it without 
using razor wire electric fences to cut them to ribbons and shock the crap 
out of them for their own good.


So MJ Fox has the shakes and he drinks Diet Coke.
 Would he have the shakes if he didn't?  There's no way to know.  Many 
people that shake have never touched Diet Coke.
 How many people swill down that nasty tasting stuff like water and don't 
get the shakes?
Does Aspertame "cause" something, or does it merely contribute to another 
cause..or is it just happenstance being lumped into a myth and called the 
absolute unavoidable truth when only one in a million people fit the stats 
for who knows what actual combination of reasons ?


NOTHING is absolutely harmless...not even plain water.

Ode


At 05:30 PM 2/27/2010 +, you wrote:
I *can* see most of that Ode, but I do think that if there is a 
possibility that a substance that is sold as harmless - or even beneficial 
- is *not* then people should have the knowledge given to them, so that 
they can make an informed choice.  After all, you or I could drink this 
with impunity, but there may be others who - if they had been given the 
information - may not have gotten sick if they had known that it could 
have had that effect.  For instance, the thousands of people who died from 
taking Vioxx - if they had been told that this was a possibility - would 
they have still taken it?  Some may 'because the doctor said,' but some 
might not haveand they would still be ali

RE: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Louise Larabie]

Even if told the side effects of death people will still take a drug as they
do not believe they will be the one that has that side effect.

I know someone that has soft bones and she takes a drug that helps the bones
be stronger but one of the side effects is death.  To me this is not a good
trade off.

There is no logic to me the benefits to not outweigh the risk when there are
other methods to increase bone density that do not have death as a side
effect.

Louise

-Original Message-
From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick [mailto:d...@deetroy.org] 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:31 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

snip if they had been given the information - may not have gotten sick if
they had known that it could have had that effect.  For instance, the
thousands of people who died from taking Vioxx - if they had been told that
this was a possibility - would they have still taken it?  Some may 'because
the doctor said,' but some might not haveand they would still be alive
today.  dee
 
On 27 Feb 2010, at 15:19, Ode Coyote wrote:

> snip



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I *can* see most of that Ode, but I do think that if there is a possibility 
that a substance that is sold as harmless - or even beneficial - is *not* then 
people should have the knowledge given to them, so that they can make an 
informed choice.  After all, you or I could drink this with impunity, but there 
may be others who - if they had been given the information - may not have 
gotten sick if they had known that it could have had that effect.  For 
instance, the thousands of people who died from taking Vioxx - if they had been 
told that this was a possibility - would they have still taken it?  Some may 
'because the doctor said,' but some might not haveand they would still be 
alive today.  dee
 
On 27 Feb 2010, at 15:19, Ode Coyote wrote:

> 
> 
> The other side of that story is those looking for something easy to blame and 
> a following to make them feel important.
> The impossible solution is the easy fight..blaming what you can't control is 
> very safe but totally ineffective with no way to win, but every way to 
> continue the "good fight" and stick somebody up on a leader pedestal that 
> fears falling off and will say *anything* to stay up there.
> You will find propaganda on both sides of any issue.
> You just can't trust anyone to think for you, not on either side.
> 
> I asked biochemists that don't make sweeteners and they confirmed the info.  
> So what.
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

 The other side of that story is those looking for something easy to blame 
and a following to make them feel important.
The impossible solution is the easy fight..blaming what you can't control 
is very safe but totally ineffective with no way to win, but every way to 
continue the "good fight" and stick somebody up on a leader pedestal that 
fears falling off and will say *anything* to stay up there.

You will find propaganda on both sides of any issue.
You just can't trust anyone to think for you, not on either side.

 I asked biochemists that don't make sweeteners and they confirmed the 
info.  So what.


 What is true doesn't matter.
 If the consumer avoids Apsertame for any reason, true or not. It WILL NOT 
BE SOLD.
Regardless of what is true, I am making my contribution to the elimination 
of crappy tasting sweeteners with no dispute possible.


The balance of value in any "belief"  belongs to each individual.

Here's the thang:
The instant that some else is held responsible for anothers choices, both 
their choices AND yours will become limited in self defense.
If I am required to clean up after you and you after me, I will naturally 
try to keep you from making a mess...and vice versa.
"What" constitutes a mess is then a personal opinion made public and the 
public can never agree on anything and will stuff EVERYONE into a box where 
no one can do anything.
To control another is like begging to become a slave.  There are then no 
"others", they are all YOU, out of control...and "begging for it".


Universal Health Care is the absolute WORST thing we could possibly do to 
our own personal freedom.
Buying "collision" insurance is quite bad enough to make people not care 
how they drive.
If a knife blade sticking out of a steering column were standard equipment, 
the accident rate would go to near zero. [and one per customer]


 The Constitution outlines the greatest of wisdoms:  You are free to shoot 
yourself in the foot, but not to make me dance.

 Anything else is a fast track to a pool of quicksand for all concerned.
 The unwinnable fight where both winners and losers are losers.

The label on the box is plenty enough for YOU to make YOUR choice.
As for me, one bite or swig spit out does the job of making that my last 
purchase.
Now, I LIKE Corn Syrup and if it kills me, I'll die fat and happy...but, I 
drink one Coke a day, if that, and I'll probably survive that 
regardless...only to fall off my tractor and get myself bush hogged.
In that case, the dogs can have the pieces of sweet meat and you are not 
required to even gather them up.


 Back in the old days, the gun fighter stuffed dollars into an empty 
chamber, one, to not shoot off his toes and two, to pay the undertaker if 
he went toes up.

 What happened to that?

Ode


At 01:26 PM 2/26/2010 +, you wrote:
Makes sense so farbutwhat if the studies were done by people who 
had an agenda in pronouncing it safe?  This has been done many times i.e 
the cigarette companies spring to mind here plus vaccine and statin 
manufacturers.  I still cannot believe that so many people have condemned 
this substance without cause, and I for one won't be drinking anything 
with it in--plus, as you say--it tastes like crap too!  dee


On 26 Feb 2010, at 09:59, Ode Coyote wrote:

>
>
>  Yup..and they are all true if you ignore context and 
proportion...like..you know..the "facts" without all the varnish.

>
> Formaldehyde is also a natural metabolite of many "healthy" foods.
> Different people metabolize things in different proportions.
> Methanol and formaldehyde is what makes some drunks skin stink and have 
hangovers...and some don't.

>
> It's like that bad sugar thing with Corn Syrup and glucose...they ALL 
metabolize into Glucose which you can't live without, so why is any sugar 
any different than any other?
> Isn't the problem simply to much sugar in conjunction with problems in 
handing it?

>


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Makes sense so farbutwhat if the studies were done by people who had an 
agenda in pronouncing it safe?  This has been done many times i.e the cigarette 
companies spring to mind here plus vaccine and statin manufacturers.  I still 
cannot believe that so many people have condemned this substance without cause, 
and I for one won't be drinking anything with it in--plus, as you say--it 
tastes like crap too!  dee

On 26 Feb 2010, at 09:59, Ode Coyote wrote:

> 
> 
>  Yup..and they are all true if you ignore context and proportion...like..you 
> know..the "facts" without all the varnish.
> 
> Formaldehyde is also a natural metabolite of many "healthy" foods.
> Different people metabolize things in different proportions.
> Methanol and formaldehyde is what makes some drunks skin stink and have 
> hangovers...and some don't.
> 
> It's like that bad sugar thing with Corn Syrup and glucose...they ALL 
> metabolize into Glucose which you can't live without, so why is any sugar any 
> different than any other?
> Isn't the problem simply to much sugar in conjunction with problems in 
> handing it?
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

  Yup..and they are all true if you ignore context and 
proportion...like..you know..the "facts" without all the varnish.


Formaldehyde is also a natural metabolite of many "healthy" foods.
Different people metabolize things in different proportions.
Methanol and formaldehyde is what makes some drunks skin stink and have 
hangovers...and some don't.


It's like that bad sugar thing with Corn Syrup and glucose...they ALL 
metabolize into Glucose which you can't live without, so why is any sugar 
any different than any other?
Isn't the problem simply to much sugar in conjunction with problems in 
handing it?


###
Aspartame is composed of two substances, aspartic acid and a methyl ester 
of phenylalanine. High heat can cause aspartame to break down into 
byproducts, including methanol, but so do the normal digestive and 
metabolic processes in the body.


The process of digesting aspartame goes something like this. Phenylalanine 
is broken down into methanol. Methanol is broken down into formaldehyde. 
Formaldehyde is turned to formic acid. Ultimately the formic acid is turned 
into water and carbon dioxide.


But aren't methanol (also known as wood alcohol) and formaldehyde (commonly 
used as an organic preservative, embalming fluid, for example) highly toxic 
substances? Yes, they are. But it's important to remember that the human 
body is a happy little chemical factory built to handle the conversion of 
methanol and formaldehyde into water and carbon dioxide.


Let's put this in perspective: the average diet cola contains about 200 
milligrams of aspartame. About 1/10 of that aspartame gets metabolized into 
methanol. [And some portion of that into  formaldehyde ]


For comparison, a serving of tomato juice the same sizes as a can of diet 
cola will produce about five times the methanol in your body as the 
aspertame in the diet cola. Fruits, fruit juices, vegetables, wine and beer 
will also produced methanol when digested. The chemical plant in your body 
can handle it in moderation, even in excess.



So maybe there is something special about how aspertame is broken down that 
interferes with how the body handles methanol and formaldehyde. Nope, not 
according to current scientific research.


Studies have tested how aspartame is converted into methanol. One study 
showed that consumption of 2000 milligrams of aspartame - that's 10 cans of 
diet soda - had no effect on the amount of methanol present in the 
bloodstream. Another study showed that ingestion of 600 mg of aspartame per 
hour for eight hours - that's 24 cans of diet soda - did not increase the 
amount of methanol in the bloodstream to abnormal or harmful levels. Yet 
another study showed that subjects were able to consume 10,000 milligrams 
of aspartame - that's the equivalent of 50 cans of diet soda - without ill 
effects and the level of methanol in the bloodstream returned to normal 
levels within eight hours.


http://tafkac.org/ulz/nutrasweet.html

OK, so the studies were done with "normal" people and not everyone is normal.

  What that "means" is..IF somebody is having trouble with Aspertame. it's 
not the Aspertame, but their metabolism and they should also avoid tomato 
juice and alcohol until they get their metabolism straightened out.


Aspertame STILL tastes like CRAP.

The buzzz..{Give me sugar, or give me meth}
I mean, why CAN'T I drink decaf coffee with some methamphetamine in it ?

Ode


At 01:05 PM 2/25/2010 +, you wrote:
Hmm...I'm still out on that one Ode.  I have read a lot of things about 
aspartame from different sources and they all agree that it is a toxic 
nerve poison.  That dorway.com which someone posted for something else, 
has  *huge* articles about it.  People that ingest it can get symptoms 
which mimic things like MS and are misdiagnosed.  I know it contains 
phenylanalin which is a natural substance for the body to use, but it is 
not necessarily in a *form*  or amount that the body can use.  Apparently 
it can also turn into formaldehyde when in certain conditions.  I wouldn't 
touch it with a pole!  dee


On 25 Feb 2010, at 11:25, Ode Coyote wrote:

>
>
>  Too much of anything will do that.
> I didn't say anything about  "aspartame excitotoxins".
> The question is, are those any different than the ones the nerves 
*need* in the proper amounts ?

>
> I don't know the answer and aspartame tastes like pure crap to me, so I 
don't get anywhere near it for that reason alone.
> From looking into it and consulting actual biochemists who could list 
the metabolites right off the top of their heads, the whole aspartame 
thing is an exaggeration of a natural process that the body does anyhow, 
on it's own, having to do with methanol.
> Many foods digest into methanol, some 50 times more so than Aspertame 
and are considered to be healthy foods.
> One glass of wine produces at least as much methanol as a case of Diet 
Coke.

>


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Hmm...I'm still out on that one Ode.  I have read a lot of things about 
aspartame from different sources and they all agree that it is a toxic nerve 
poison.  That dorway.com which someone posted for something else, has  *huge* 
articles about it.  People that ingest it can get symptoms which mimic things 
like MS and are misdiagnosed.  I know it contains phenylanalin which is a 
natural substance for the body to use, but it is not necessarily in a *form*  
or amount that the body can use.  Apparently it can also turn into formaldehyde 
when in certain conditions.  I wouldn't touch it with a pole!  dee

On 25 Feb 2010, at 11:25, Ode Coyote wrote:

> 
> 
>  Too much of anything will do that.
> I didn't say anything about  "aspartame excitotoxins".
> The question is, are those any different than the ones the nerves *need* in 
> the proper amounts ?
> 
> I don't know the answer and aspartame tastes like pure crap to me, so I don't 
> get anywhere near it for that reason alone.
> From looking into it and consulting actual biochemists who could list the 
> metabolites right off the top of their heads, the whole aspartame thing is an 
> exaggeration of a natural process that the body does anyhow, on it's own, 
> having to do with methanol.
> Many foods digest into methanol, some 50 times more so than Aspertame and are 
> considered to be healthy foods.
> One glass of wine produces at least as much methanol as a case of Diet Coke.
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

  Too much of anything will do that.
I didn't say anything about  "aspartame excitotoxins".
 The question is, are those any different than the ones the nerves *need* 
in the proper amounts ?


I don't know the answer and aspartame tastes like pure crap to me, so I 
don't get anywhere near it for that reason alone.
 From looking into it and consulting actual biochemists who could list the 
metabolites right off the top of their heads, the whole aspartame thing is 
an exaggeration of a natural process that the body does anyhow, on it's 
own, having to do with methanol.
 Many foods digest into methanol, some 50 times more so than Aspertame and 
are considered to be healthy foods.

One glass of wine produces at least as much methanol as a case of Diet Coke.

Is methanol toxic?  SURE it is.  But the body is DESIGNED to handle it up 
to a point and that point will never be reached by drinking Coke.
If, however, you are already  AT that point, some Coke could push you over 
the edge, but avoiding something else would do a lot better job.


ode


At 06:34 PM 2/24/2010 +, you wrote:
But what I read said that the aspartame excitotoxins cause nerves to 
die?  Is this not right then?  dee


On 24 Feb 2010, at 15:01, Ode Coyote wrote:

> At 06:25 PM 2/23/2010 +, you wrote:
>> But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol,
>
>
> "Blankets"...you can't stay alive without excitotoxins.
> Look a little deeper.
>
> ode
>
>


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

But what I read said that the aspartame excitotoxins cause nerves to die?  Is 
this not right then?  dee

On 24 Feb 2010, at 15:01, Ode Coyote wrote:

> At 06:25 PM 2/23/2010 +, you wrote:
>> But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol,
> 
> 
> "Blankets"...you can't stay alive without excitotoxins.
> Look a little deeper.
> 
> ode
> 
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Ode Coyote]

At 06:25 PM 2/23/2010 +, you wrote:

But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol,



"Blankets"...you can't stay alive without excitotoxins.
Look a little deeper.

ode


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[M. G. Devour]

Sol writes:
> Meantime, I try to not use too much of any sweetener, but I don't have
> any fear of a bit of aspartame now and then. sol 

I think this is the ultimate secret to Sol's success!

Most of the incidents of people having real bad outcomes with such 
products seem to be linked with major use... How many do you hear being 
described as "addicted" to the stuff?

I will *rarely* take a swig or two of an aspertame sweetened beverage 
if I'm desparate for the taste. It's not like the stuff is acutely 
toxic. That's why they get away with selling it.

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I think the thing with this type of product is that you wouldn't necessarily 
notice anything happening at all, until it was too late.  However, as long as 
people are aware of the danger and can make an informed choice, then that is of 
course, their prerogative.   dee

On 23 Feb 2010, at 19:03, sol wrote:

> Well, I'm sorry to tell you but MY personal experience is that I feel the 
> same whether having some or being off it completely for years at a time. I 
> just feel no adverse effects from it. It was one of the first things I looked 
> at given my known health issues.
> If removing something for several years from one's diet doesn't fix anything, 
> and starting up again does not increase anything, I don't see the point, 
> myself.
> And I have read that it is an individual sensitivity issue, and for us at 
> this house it does seem to be just that, and we have decided not to worry 
> about it.
> BTW, I do agree the FDA is lax on this, and don't really care  how many 
> adverse reports they receive. I even read somewhere that they long ago 
> stopped collecting adverse event data on it.
> Now, if they were to bring back Cyclamate, which were exonerated umpty ump 
> years ago I'd be a happy camper.  Meantime, I try to not use too much of any 
> sweetener, but I don't have any fear of a bit of aspartame now and then.
> sol
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[sol]

Well, I'm sorry to tell you but MY personal experience is that I feel 
the same whether having some or being off it completely for years at 
a time. I just feel no adverse effects from it. It was one of the 
first things I looked at given my known health issues.
If removing something for several years from one's diet doesn't fix 
anything, and starting up again does not increase anything, I don't 
see the point, myself.
And I have read that it is an individual sensitivity issue, and for 
us at this house it does seem to be just that, and we have decided 
not to worry about it.
BTW, I do agree the FDA is lax on this, and don't really care  how 
many adverse reports they receive. I even read somewhere that they 
long ago stopped collecting adverse event data on it.
Now, if they were to bring back Cyclamate, which were exonerated 
umpty ump years ago I'd be a happy camper.  Meantime, I try to not 
use too much of any sweetener, but I don't have any fear of a bit of 
aspartame now and then.

sol

At 11:25 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol, and has also 
been cited as causing cancer among other things.  I believe it is on 
the agenda of the FDA at the moment as so many have called for a ban 
on it.  It was banned for many years until Reagan got into power and 
then it was allowed, as its discoverer was a friend of his (so I 
read.)  My friend suffers from really sensitive skin on her legs and 
feet and cannot bear to have them even brushed up against.  Only one 
of many of her ailments, so I would have thought that to keep 
drinking something which is known to damage nerves would be the 
height of folly.  dee



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Marshall Dudley]

sol wrote:

At 04:48 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
I've given up with her Marshall - she thinks if they are 'allowed' to 
sell it then it must be allright!  dee
If you mean diet sodas with aspartame, I have to say it doesn't bother 
me. People who are sensitive to it should not use it, but then that 
applies to everything.
I don't get any adverse effects from it nor does my husband, and from 
all the scare stories I've read about aspartame, he should be either 
dead or crippled in a wheelchair by now, and nothing remotely adverse 
has happened to him. For those who do need to avoid sugar but would 
like something a bit sweet from time to time, it is better tasting 
than any other sweetener that I have tried, even stevia. Though I do 
use stevia a lot, and have so far confined my aspartame intake to an 
occasional diet pepsi. The splenda sweetened coke just doesn't taste 
right. I don't consume a lot of diet pop though. I prefer my decaf 
coffee and I prefer it unsweetened as I do my decaf tea. But when I 
need a bit of caffeine, I will have 4 to 8 oz of diet pepsi.
If affects different people different ways, and may take years to 
manifest some things in some people. Many things though once you find it 
did cause the problem it is too late.  For instance we were warning my 
sister in law that if she kept drinking diet cokes with aspertame in it 
she was going to get brain tumors (yes, that was dowsed for).  She 
ignored that, kept drinking them, and laster had to have a brain 
operation to remove the tumors.  Unbelievable though, even though 
forewarned, with the warning coming true, she still drinks them. I guess 
she has a death wish.


Marshall

sol

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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

But aspartame is a known neurotoxin (exitotoxin) sol, and has also been cited 
as causing cancer among other things.  I believe it is on the agenda of the FDA 
at the moment as so many have called for a ban on it.  It was banned for many 
years until Reagan got into power and then it was allowed, as its discoverer 
was a friend of his (so I read.)  My friend suffers from really sensitive skin 
on her legs and feet and cannot bear to have them even brushed up against.  
Only one of many of her ailments, so I would have thought that to keep drinking 
something which is known to damage nerves would be the height of folly.  dee

On 23 Feb 2010, at 17:49, sol wrote:

> At 04:48 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
>> I've given up with her Marshall - she thinks if they are 'allowed' to sell 
>> it then it must be allright!  dee
> If you mean diet sodas with aspartame, I have to say it doesn't bother me. 
> People who are sensitive to it should not use it, but then that applies to 
> everything.
> I don't get any adverse effects from it nor does my husband, and from all the 
> scare stories I've read about aspartame, he should be either dead or crippled 
> in a wheelchair by now, and nothing remotely adverse has happened to him. For 
> those who do need to avoid sugar but would like something a bit sweet from 
> time to time, it is better tasting than any other sweetener that I have 
> tried, even stevia. Though I do use stevia a lot, and have so far confined my 
> aspartame intake to an occasional diet pepsi. The splenda sweetened coke just 
> doesn't taste right. I don't consume a lot of diet pop though. I prefer my 
> decaf coffee and I prefer it unsweetened as I do my decaf tea. But when I 
> need a bit of caffeine, I will have 4 to 8 oz of diet pepsi.
> sol 
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[sol]

At 04:48 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
I've given up with her Marshall - she thinks if they are 'allowed' 
to sell it then it must be allright!  dee
If you mean diet sodas with aspartame, I have to say it doesn't 
bother me. People who are sensitive to it should not use it, but then 
that applies to everything.
I don't get any adverse effects from it nor does my husband, and from 
all the scare stories I've read about aspartame, he should be either 
dead or crippled in a wheelchair by now, and nothing remotely adverse 
has happened to him. For those who do need to avoid sugar but would 
like something a bit sweet from time to time, it is better tasting 
than any other sweetener that I have tried, even stevia. Though I do 
use stevia a lot, and have so far confined my aspartame intake to an 
occasional diet pepsi. The splenda sweetened coke just doesn't taste 
right. I don't consume a lot of diet pop though. I prefer my decaf 
coffee and I prefer it unsweetened as I do my decaf tea. But when I 
need a bit of caffeine, I will have 4 to 8 oz of diet pepsi.
sol 



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Thanks for this Marshall.  dee

On 23 Feb 2010, at 15:51, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> Have her look at dorway.com
> 
> Even the FDA has a list of problems it can cause, including death if I 
> remember right.
> 
> Marshall
> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Marshall Dudley]

Have her look at dorway.com

Even the FDA has a list of problems it can cause, including death if I 
remember right.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

I've given up with her Marshall - she thinks if they are 'allowed' to sell it 
then it must be allright!  dee

On 22 Feb 2010, at 19:48, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  

Get her to at least switch to the diet coke with splenda. It isn't good, but at 
least it is not as deadly as their main diet coke.

Marshall

Dan Nave wrote:




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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I've given up with her Marshall - she thinks if they are 'allowed' to sell it 
then it must be allright!  dee

On 22 Feb 2010, at 19:48, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> Get her to at least switch to the diet coke with splenda. It isn't good, but 
> at least it is not as deadly as their main diet coke.
> 
> Marshall
> 
> Dan Nave wrote:


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I meant type 2   dee

On 22 Feb 2010, at 18:51, Dan Nave wrote:

> Type 11 diabetes!  That's bad
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:
>> I have a friend like this Rowena, but she will not listen to me.  She has 
>> type 11 diabetes and is on BP meds Metformin and something else, also 
>> statins and pain killers for her neuropathy, but still she keeps swigging 
>> diet Coke!  dee
>> 
>> On 21 Feb 2010, at 10:39, Rowena wrote:
>> 


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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Rowena]

Well, what I might do is send her the information about the mag dioxide 
in carbonated water, and let her have the recipes for different 
flavours, the coke taste-alike, if I remember correctly, being tamarind 
paste, which I happen to have.  Made harder by the fact that she has 
just moved, so I can't carbonate her water for her.  But if she is 
sufficiently shocked, she just  might think along these lines.  The tin 
didn't actually look like coke, just some cola look-alike, but even so, 
there are better options.


Rowena

On 23/02/2010 3:48 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
Get her to at least switch to the diet coke with splenda. It isn't 
good, but at least it is not as deadly as their main diet coke.


Marshall

D



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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Marshall Dudley]

Get her to at least switch to the diet coke with splenda. It isn't good, 
but at least it is not as deadly as their main diet coke.


Marshall

Dan Nave wrote:

Type 11 diabetes!  That's bad

Dan


On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:
  

I have a friend like this Rowena, but she will not listen to me.  She has type 
11 diabetes and is on BP meds Metformin and something else, also statins and 
pain killers for her neuropathy, but still she keeps swigging diet Coke!  dee

On 21 Feb 2010, at 10:39, Rowena wrote:



Reposted in plain text.

It is true, apparently, that they use sweetener as well as sugar, and I read 
that the reason is that it is cheaper for them to sweeten the drinks with the 
chemicals than with the real sugar.  They don't necessarily identify the fact 
that sugar is not the only sweetener, either, at least not where I live. 
Probably if it is below a certain quantity they don't need to report it, and 
let's face it, very little chemical  is needed to sweeten it.  There is a 
pretty horrific list of tales people tell of their symptoms when using Splenda, 
for instance, which I looked up after the aspartame articles.

  

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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dan Nave]

Type 11 diabetes!  That's bad

Dan


On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> I have a friend like this Rowena, but she will not listen to me.  She has 
> type 11 diabetes and is on BP meds Metformin and something else, also statins 
> and pain killers for her neuropathy, but still she keeps swigging diet Coke!  
> dee
>
> On 21 Feb 2010, at 10:39, Rowena wrote:
>
>> Reposted in plain text.
>>
>> It is true, apparently, that they use sweetener as well as sugar, and I read 
>> that the reason is that it is cheaper for them to sweeten the drinks with 
>> the chemicals than with the real sugar.  They don't necessarily identify the 
>> fact that sugar is not the only sweetener, either, at least not where I 
>> live. Probably if it is below a certain quantity they don't need to report 
>> it, and let's face it, very little chemical  is needed to sweeten it.  There 
>> is a pretty horrific list of tales people tell of their symptoms when using 
>> Splenda, for instance, which I looked up after the aspartame articles.
>>
>
>
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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Annie B Smythe]

I quit drinking anything but water and tea/coffee. 
Yeah coffee/tea isn't the greatest either, but it 
is my guilty pleasure:)


Annie

Control your destiny or somebody else will.~Jack Welsh


Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

I have a friend like this Rowena, but she will not listen to me.  She has type 
11 diabetes and is on BP meds Metformin and something else, also statins and 
pain killers for her neuropathy, but still she keeps swigging diet Coke!  dee

On 21 Feb 2010, at 10:39, Rowena wrote:


Reposted in plain text.

It is true, apparently, that they use sweetener as well as sugar, and I read 
that the reason is that it is cheaper for them to sweeten the drinks with the 
chemicals than with the real sugar.  They don't necessarily identify the fact 
that sugar is not the only sweetener, either, at least not where I live. 
Probably if it is below a certain quantity they don't need to report it, and 
let's face it, very little chemical  is needed to sweeten it.  There is a 
pretty horrific list of tales people tell of their symptoms when using Splenda, 
for instance, which I looked up after the aspartame articles.




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Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I have a friend like this Rowena, but she will not listen to me.  She has type 
11 diabetes and is on BP meds Metformin and something else, also statins and 
pain killers for her neuropathy, but still she keeps swigging diet Coke!  dee

On 21 Feb 2010, at 10:39, Rowena wrote:

> Reposted in plain text.
> 
> It is true, apparently, that they use sweetener as well as sugar, and I read 
> that the reason is that it is cheaper for them to sweeten the drinks with the 
> chemicals than with the real sugar.  They don't necessarily identify the fact 
> that sugar is not the only sweetener, either, at least not where I live. 
> Probably if it is below a certain quantity they don't need to report it, and 
> let's face it, very little chemical  is needed to sweeten it.  There is a 
> pretty horrific list of tales people tell of their symptoms when using 
> Splenda, for instance, which I looked up after the aspartame articles.
> 


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Fwd: Re: CS>(LL) Have you heard of this name change ?? Sweeteners.

[Rowena]

Reposted in plain text.

It is true, apparently, that they use sweetener as well as sugar, and I 
read that the reason is that it is cheaper for them to sweeten the 
drinks with the chemicals than with the real sugar.  They don't 
necessarily identify the fact that sugar is not the only sweetener, 
either, at least not where I live. Probably if it is below a certain 
quantity they don't need to report it, and let's face it, very little 
chemical  is needed to sweeten it.  There is a pretty horrific list of 
tales people tell of their symptoms when using Splenda, for instance, 
which I looked up after the aspartame articles.


A dear friend of mine has been telling me about her new illnesses, 
diabetes and high blood pressure and a few other things.  Then I noticed 
a packet of Splenda on her coffee table.  And she was also swigging some 
sort of Cola drink during our hot weather.  I forwarded your emails to 
her, Lois and Annie, with a whole swag of the Splenda complaints, too.  
Up to her now, poor darling - she has enough to put up with having no 
disks between her vertebrae any more, and has to spend a lot of time 
lying down.  I hope she gets the message the Splenda users are passing on.


R

On 19/02/2010 7:57 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:
Thanks for this Lois, I think all products containing artificial 
sweeteners should be avoided, but they even put it in when there is 
*sugar* in it as well!  Unbelievable!  dee
On 18 Feb 2010, at 21:51, zzekel...@aol.com  
wrote:


I just got this today.aminosweet 
 
Artificial sweeteners especially aspartame has gotten a bad rap over 
the years, most likely due to studies showing they cause cancer. But 
not to worry Ajinomoto the company that makes Aspartame has changed 
the name to AminoSweet. It has the same toxic ingredients but a nice 
new sounding name.

Lois





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