[RCSE] Zephyr-6 Flight/Video
Now this is really cool: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7577493.stm - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] An argument for handlaunch.
Now on to something that I SHOULD be upset about. I just got an email from AARPHOLY C**P...isnt that the sign of the coming apocalypse? Oh man, it's just prostrate exams and midnight trips to the bathroom from here on out. Uhhh, you're not prostrate for a prostate exam. That's the other Doc working with the long TV tube. Been there, done that. Leave a book on the clothes hamper in the outhouse. You get decent discounts with your AARP card if you remember where you put it. 2 day DLG at the Nats! Great idea! I appreciate all the dialog on this topic. Already put 11,000 miles on the truck this year driving around the US for discus events. If there's a 2-day at the Nats, it definitely goes on my ToDo list. Let's see, north to St. Louis and turn right. Drive on 'til the first star on the left. Ooops. Nope, that's Polecat. Of course the real humiliation about being a bottom-feeder like myself is showing up at Poway and having Gordy beat you at your own game. Thanks Ben for the write-ups. Thanks Chris and the Carrs and all the guys who represented the US at the German F3K. Some of the them have been going on their own nickel for several years. Please keep up the great effort. Now the challenge is making the NATS the 3rd major US national contest for discus. How do we collectively help make it happen? - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Contest Format
Guys, I've flown a variant of Tim's proposal at SLNT on quite a few occasions in their Class-A Scramble event. It's a great task, gets the load off the CD and keeps pilots involved all the way through the event. Extending it to TD classes is a really interesting approach and addresses a lot of issues that can come up at club contests. I suspect the format works best for club events in the 8 to 20 range or thereabouts. Why don't some of the clubs give it a try for their monthly events and report back to RCSE or RCGroups? The rules may merit some tweaking but the best way to figure that is to give it a shot. The Class A format draws more entries each month at Dallas than just about anything else - and that's a pretty competitive group of guys. One of the things it DEFINITELY accomplishes is draw more club members into club activities. If you're in it for the group and not just for yourself, that's not a bad outcome. Way to go Tim! - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 2008 Nats Dates
Gee Denny, I thought winter started with the Gordy Equinox and the changing of the moons? No! No! It's the mooning of the Gordy at the equinox! What?? No Open Scale hand launch cross country?? Yes! Yes! Two years ago Team Polecat did HLG XC and set the record for the task at 1.9mi. Made it through the graveyard, over the hill, past the cornfield and around the corner. (Didn't come in last either). Kinda hoping 1.5m XC may be held as a provisional event this year. If not, we'll just slug it out with the big guys again. This time I'm bringing the Shiner Boch. Hmmm - DLG one weekend. HLG-XC the next? May have to build a 2M for mid-week amusement. What was that they were saying in Dallas - friends don't let friends fly what, Henry? - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 9C / 9303
Forgot one thing in the prior post. With the 9303 you can use a 4ch Rx for discus (Berg, for instance, if you're really anxious about weight) since the primary functions in the 9303 (rudder, elevator, aileron, flap) are assigned to chs 1-4. Can't do that with the 9C (unless a late rev in the Super allows channel re-assignment). Maybe that's why I'm using the 9303 for discus and the 9C for other stuff. Weight and ergonomics of both transmitters are virtually identical. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Futaba 9C / JR9303
I have both (both are heli versions). Bought the JR on the way home from Polecat in June after getting a lot of good advice on 'up-grading'. Both are programmed for discus and 6 servo open class planes as well as a few electrics. Discus, in particular, requires some unique setups. The 9C Super has recently gone in for service and works great (again). It had lots of stick time (~ 2000 hrs) and needed a tune-up and a few parts swapped. The JR has about 300hrs on it and has been extensively programmed and tweaked. Both provide out-of-sight range when the receiver is properly installed. Bottom line - I have only found a few things that one transmitter can do that the other can't. And there are work-arounds for them if you really want to do it. There may be an arcane mix out there that is unique but for discus and open class use (contest and sport flying), both systems are pretty analogous. Of the two, I find the Futaba easier to program but that's from long familiarity (~30 years flying Futaba). JR programming is a bit more intuitive and more switches can be assigned. However, you better assign them before you begin the program set-up or the effort may be wasted. Some of the mixes are easier to set up in the JR. For instance, I wanted rudder coupling only in 'Thermal' mode and assigned that to the 3 position flight mode switch. Also in 'Launch' mode, I wanted to de-activate flaps and also assigned that function to the 3 position switch. For the 9C I have those assigned to separate switches. I suspect the newer variants of the Super will allow assigning to the 3 position switch. In both I have landing flaps on the left slider (not on the left stick). That was easier to set up on the Futaba. The timer on the Futaba is easier to set and use. The multi-point mixes are easier on the JR. The trim-in-mode option is better in the Futaba. The flaperon trim is better in the JR. Etc., etc. At this point I'm leaning towards the JR for discus and the Futaba for open class and electric. Will probably keep the JR on 72 (synth) and get the 2.4 module for the Futaba. Both systems (72 and SS) appear to be fully functional for all flight modes I use. The only things I wish each would do that they don't - recognize both positive and negative shift. Also that damn reverse polarity charge jack on the JR - re-wire that puppy as soon as you can. Overall the JR may be a bit more flexible for discus programming but I can't see a major difference for open and/or electric. There's a lot of stuff I don't do so I'm sure various proponents of either system will disagree with this post. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Berg Receivers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: Berg 7P, Jade C/F . This receiver had been flown in an all wood sailplane with no issues. Since the Jade fuselage is a kevlar/glass construction that shouldn't be a problem. I was about to blame the Krylon grey primer until I recalled the Jade had carbon fiber pushrods to the elevator and rudder. Has anyone experienced similar problems with a 72MHz receiver? Allan I've got 6 Berg receivers (from Castle), 3 of the 4s and 3 of the 7s. All 6 get 50+ pace range ( ~ 150ft) on the ground or on the tailgate of my pickup. All are in carbon/kevlar fuselages with carbon tail booms. Pushrods are carbon or SS wire. Antenna is run along the top of the tailboom and about 8 is left to dangle in the breeze. Flight range has been to my limits (probably ~ 1000ft) but typical flights are ~ 600ft or so (discus glider). Some contest experience with them so they've seen a crowded frequency environment. So far the response has been excellent with all of them. Transmitter is a JR9303 with 72MHz synth module. I've used ch 19 and 24 and have swapped crystals with no problem. Don Richmond convinced me to try them after I had problems with another Rx brand. So far so good. Hard to believe that carbon pushrods could be the problem. It's possible that the issue with the other brand was my other 9 channel receiver which went to Futaba for a check up and was found to have a few tuning issues. So you might have the Tx checked as well. Might be fine in wood but carbon might throw the signal strength off a bit and . Your mileage may vary but they're good so far for me. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Stopwatch Listings
Just FYI, best comparative listing of stopwatches I've found is: http://www.stopwatchcentral.com/index.html The ones often used for soaring are all there (Seiko S321, Robic SC707, Accusplit A625) along with many others - including Brian's printer supplied Seiko. Nice place to compare features. For lap/split models, info is not provided for freeze times but Seiko is typically 20s, Robic ~15s and Sportline ~5s. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Stopwatch Recommendation
Just to clarify this a bit: - The Seiko S321 is probably the most reliable watch out there. Probably easiest to program for up/down counting. It's probably the best for TD work but won't do lap/split/memory timing which is useful for some DLG tasks, - The Talking Timer is useful for practice and some limited contest work but is bulky and doesn't do lap/split/memory, - The Accusplit AL620 does all of the above with 10 memories but has lousy buttons that become erratic after about a year. Gordy swaps those out for Radio Shack switches which is an improvement. Seiko, Accusplit and Robic make many stopwatches from $20 to $200. Most of the lap/split/memory ones have a lap freeze feature that leaves the display frozen for up to 20 seconds before you see the counter working. Somewhat distracting in the heat of battle. Several of them allow you to clear the freeze but with a third button - again a distraction during a rapid turn-around DLG event. The other requirement for this is a little different from most local timing issues. I travel a lot to discus contests. There are no other DLG guys in my area that routinely travel to contests. At most places, the local guys are already paired up for timing/flying so I need to have a fool-proof system to be able to ask folks who may not have any prior timing experience. It happens just about once every trip. If I can hand a guy a stopwatch and tell him to push the button when I launch and then again when I land and we'll sort it out at the end of the task, life is a lot less stressful for everyone. The risk is that the wrong button gets pushed and all the information is lost but that's a lot less trying than many of the alternatives. So it comes down to: Does anyone have operating experience with a good quality, trouble-free stopwatch that has at least 10 memories (30 or more preferred) that will do lap/split/memory timing and does not freeze the lap frame, or does so for a much shorter interval than 20 seconds (The Seikos hold for 20 seconds. The Robics for 15). Count up/down option is a bonus but not a requirement. If you had never seen this stopwatch before in your life and were handed this stopwatch a few minutes before a ladder event with a 15sec minimum time, would you be comfortable using it to time someone? Or if you had to hand it to a total stranger with unknown contest timing experience, would you be comfortable that they could reliably record your times with it for the whole 10 minute window? I know that constrains the problem a bit but if there's a good solution it's worth a fair amount, - Dave R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Brian. I've had one for 10 years. It's worth the money. JE -- Erickson Architects John R. Erickson, AIA Why would you need lap time for TD work? I have the Seiko for over 20 years, and it is the best. Others are just copy cats of the Seiko. Brian -- Brian Chan, RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TNT Schedule
TNT Schedule: http://www.slnt.org/TNT%202006/TNT%202006.htm Friday DLG: Pilot's meeting 9AM, Start 9:45 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:02:36 -0500 From: George Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE soaring@airage.com Subject: TNT Schedule? What time does DLG start Friday morning? gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TNT Schedule
TNT Schedule: http://www.slnt.org/TNT%202006/TNT%202006.htm Friday DLG: Pilot's meeting 9AM, Start 9:45 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:02:36 -0500 From: George Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE soaring@airage.com Subject: TNT Schedule? What time does DLG start Friday morning? gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 14 Years
David in Dayton, Keep the faith, bro. 14 years ain't too bad. Got all my L-IV contests in less than a year in SoCal. Still working on the goal and return and a 2nd hour to wrap it up. Date of the last thermal contest? ... 1976. 31 years and still working on it. Yes, it IS the journey. For some of us it just takes a little longer. - Dave R Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:42:43 -0400 From: David Wrinkle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: 14 Years and an Hour Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It felt good this morning despite the fact I worked at a minimum 12 thermals and all of them way down wind. I started my Level IV in 1992 and by the end of that summer I had all the contest requirements. Now 14 years later, and on my first flight of the day, I completed my 1 hour flight. (My only previous attempt was nearly two years ago. It resulted in a 48 minute flight.) With luck, I'll sneak a 4 hour flight in at Brookville this fall and possibly the 2k flight next spring... Keep your collective fingers crossed Cheers David in Dayton RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Masters
** that I am not the only Smith on the Roster? Hope you guys remember Mark Smith. Mark's Models Dynaflight, previous National Champ, LSF No. 19.??? Ringing any bells out there? I am sure it is. ** Also developer of the 'kiss and click' spot landing. Back some 35 or so years ago when he was flying the Windfree in SoCal he worked out a way to get time and spots at landing. Grease that little beauty in a foot or so off the deck and at the exact time, kiss the nose off the grass (or dirt, or whatever), then bounce it back into the air and fly it into a perfect spot without having to worry about the time. No skids, skegs or anything. Just amazing coordination, timing and skill. First time I saw that maneuver I recall a bunch of guys all gaping and muttering 'did you see that...???'. Awesome list for Masters. Hope you guys have a great time. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] 2M Re-Visited
As a diversion from the LSF angst, I'd like to briefly resurrect an old thread. Shortly after NATS there was a flurry of dialog regarding 2M design. My comments, in general, suggested there was still some room to upgrade 2M designs, look more closely at the Drela airfoils, optimize planforms at the wing loadings we could achieve, etc. etc. So for the last 6-8 weeks that's been a fun project. The result is a poly, aptly named the Kahuna 1.8 (2M doesn't quite fit in the bed of my truck so we opted for 72 span). Although a poly, it's intended to be a validation platform for trying a few things out. Basically a V-tail, pod and boom, Drela section, optimized planform for the wing loading and still winchable at an AUW of 19.5oz. The structures are basically similar to DLG but without the need for a sub-rudder. Other than that (and swapping out the airfoils), it's more or less a discus on steroids Unfortunately, as Ben Wilson has noted, the dwindling number of sailplane guys makes the following unverifiable as there's only one active soaring pilot in Oklahoma that I'm aware of (me). So no witnesses. But there's no reason to make any of it up. The last couple of evenings were spent doing hi-start trim flights, checking incidence, CG, control settings, etc. etc. Today was the first time to really winch it. The soccer field is somewhat small (three fields wide by one field long) and surrounded by trees on three sides and a major road on the 4th. So flights are pretty much restricted to flying over the open field area. First hard winch launch was a bit downwind. No wing flex, nice zoom, good stability, etc. Second winch launch was similar - maybe 300ft total altitude at pushover. Launched into a nice little thermal and the adventure began. It became very obvious that the Drela sections were performing well. Just enough airfoil transition and washout to minimize tip stalls. The wing could pull a ridiculous AOA and just mush straight ahead. Basically very good pitch and yaw response with the V design chosen. After checking it all out and finding about three more thermals the ship is pretty well settled in and we've got 10 minutes on the flight and good altitude. Wonder how long this can go on, sez I. Five thermals later and we're at 25 minutes. Gee, sure would be fun to do that 1 hr Level IV flight. Just about then the lift cycle quits and at 29 minutes, and again at 34 minutes, sub-tree top saves are needed to keep the flight going. The one at 34 hit a bubble on landing approach and off she went. Discus technology and methods show promise in this size class. Somewhere around 45 minutes into the flight, it's looking really grim with a large sink cycle everywhere. I have no idea why those two adolescent hawks decided to have a bird fight over the field just then. But the two of them came tumbling out of the sky ass over tail feathers and pulled out at about 50ft right at the edge of the west tree line. They both started circling down wind - and were going up. Following the fighting falcons paid off with one of the better small thermals of the day and we're off to the races again. Finally at 55 minutes into the flight it's time to relax until, at 58 minutes, another sink cycle comes roaring through and it's looking grim. Right then the little flag on the Tx antenna starts pointing north. 'Follow the flag' is the lesson given by Doug Harnish at the NATS so in desperation we're using what little altitude is left to head for the north tree line. And right there on a bead with the little flag is a tight little twister kicking off from the only tree on the line that's wiggling it's branches. The hour flight is made. That little thermal worked so well that we were well and truly skied out (for a 2M) when it quit. Hmmm, wonder if a 2hr is in the cards? Nope (common sense kicks in) - it's a 400maH pack and the best we've got from it in the other plane is about 100 minutes and we've already used 15 on top of this so Brought it home at the end of the next lift cycle for a 77:06 flight. Not bad for a trim flight on a 1.8m home design (and build). Sure would've been nice to have a witness or two for that 2nd L-IV flight but to my knowledge the nearest witnesses are 250+ miles away. Bottom line - I still submit we are not optimized in 2M. Yes there are some good ships out there but I do not see any reason a 2M needs to come in at 46 oz or more. 30ish max if you're really heavy on the structures. Although this one is a poly, the same structures will be used for a flaperon version which shouldn't weigh more than 24oz. Yeah, it probably won't take a pedal-to-the-metal-full-bore-stomp-on-it winch launch. But the way this one is flying makes that a reasonable compromise. This isn't hard to do, guys. I still believe the reason 2M performance is generally inferior to open class is that most 2M ships are either converted slopers or small open class ships,
[RCSE] Level-IV Session
A hot, steamy flying session at a sod farm near Tioga, TX yielded some great results for LSF accomplishments today. 4 Texans and an Okie got there around 8:30 just as a band of rain was passing through. After getting things settled down, scoping out the distances with a GPS and getting the truck ready for course duties, the guys settled in to trim flights and various attempts at finding lift. The first several hours were spotty as the humidity kept the lift light and patchy. But late in the morning a strong lift band developed and Jochen Luetke hooked a boomer with his Stratos. After spec'ing it out, we piled in the truck and took off down the field. As more lift developed heading north, the outcome became more certain. John maintained much of his altitude over the 2km run to the turn-around point. We had to really haul a** coming back down wind to keep up with the plane. The gravel road with pits and holes and right angle turns made it a bit tough on the pilot but with good altitude at the finish we were able to slow down a bit and get him back to the start for a smooth landing. One Level-IV goal and return done. The next several hours went back to the unstable cycle that prevailed early in the morning and only one (unsuccessful) attempt was made on the course. Around 1:30 PM, Tim Bennett added some tail weight to his TECO and sent it up for a check out. Although the plane was much more responsive, it had a tendency to stall and tuck. However, it was going up at a really good clip! The morning lift band looked like it was back. Tim worked a fairly strong core on the west side of the field until he was spec'ed enough to give it a shot. We got Tim in the truck bed and took off for the 2km target at the north end. From the morning's experience, Dan drove ahead to spot the turn-around point so we wouldn't have to drive the truck around the storage shed, down the tree line, through the mud bog and up the hill at the extreme north end of the field. Lift continued to develop on the northward traverse. The plane continued to swoop and tuck in the lift-y gusts that were coming through. Dan spotted the plane at the north end just as we were thinking of braving the bog to make sure we got the distance right. Just in time as the lift was starting to quit. Tim turned that puppy around and we drove like a bat outta hell trying to keep up. The plane was back over the winch before we got there and Tim had to 'loiter' it a bit while Rob raced around the gravel boundary road. Making the last turn at a good clip dumped Tim over in the bed of the truck, at which point the plane was about 10ft off the deck in a perfect position to finish the course. Since both pilots had completed all their other tasks for Level IV, hopefully today's adventure will wrap things up when their paperwork is sent in to LSF. Congratulations Tim and John. They'll join Mark Williams as Level IVs for the Soaring League of North Texas. Thanks to Rob Davis and Dan Ahearn for their very able assistance in getting these guys qualified to tackle Level V. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Level-IV Session
Rob, Yes, thank you for the correction. I knew it was one of those 'S' planes. Had a senior moment there. - Dave R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jochen flies a Sharon Pro! Rob RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Great Ideas
Back in the day.. The AMA rule used to state that if you shed a part on landing you were zero'ed for that landing. Not sure if that's how it reads now but Back when Paragon's were the hot new ship (mid-70s), the canopy was typically secured with a rubber band inside the fuse connected to a hook on the bottom of the canopy tray. As launches became more aggressive, it was not unusual to see a Paragon flip the canopy over the side of the plane at the top of the launch. Quite often this would stay attached until the end where it might drag on the ground and pop off giving you a zero for the landing. However, if you could jettison the canopy during the flight, you were OK. Many's the SC^2 when a Paragon would go into wild gyrations before setting up for landing just to launch that pesky canopy overboard. Necessity being the mother that it is, slip on nose cones soon followed. - Dave R Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:59:12 -0700 From: George Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harley Michaelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Great Ideas Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've heard of contests where the ruling was if the canopy came loose and was still attached by a string or other device, you had to be willing to launch the sailplane that way or take a zero for the landing. I then Goop the LED display to the inside of the canopy. A side benefit is that RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 2M Weight
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 18:29:04 -0400 From: Mark Drela [EMAIL PROTECTED] The reason that most 2m gliders fly like crap (quoting one CRRC flier), is that they are WAY too heavy for their span. Consider a log-log plot of weight versus span. The following three points lie roughly on a straight line Point well made and a major beef with many 2M ships. A case in point is the Mini-Graphite with the original V-tail (not really a full 2M, by the way). Mine comes in at 45oz with a pretty neutral CG. The MG also uses the MH32 and it does not take kindly to flaps - another advantage of some of the purpose designed (for flaps) AG airfoils. The MG has a very low dihedral angle (~ 2 deg) and a rather wide V-angle (low effective vertical stab area) which affects the stability and yaw response. Get it going fast enough and it's great but that's not conducive to TD work. Still, it was good for an LSFIV flight and some wood - but it was a lot of work. And so on for other ships (Whisper 2M, etc.). As previously noted, many of these look like slopers that are being marketed as TD planes and it just doesn't work very well. Sure would be nice if Denny put a winchable version of the Wind Dancer into production (hint, hint) - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] 2M Rambles
Couldn't agree more with many of the comments about 2M (with 1 or 2 minor exceptions). I like this class for a lot of reasons, most of which have been articulated, and have tried quite a few of the kits that are out there. IMHO the best ones were the 2M Super-V, the 2M Duck and the Laser 2M. However, it's probably about time for an update to some of these designs. So a thought or two as grist for the design guys: We tend to think of the 2M class as a small open class ship. So the open class design tendencies are usually used. This is not necessarily a good idea. Because of it's size, a 2M is not going to be able to roam as far or as high as an open class ship - it's simply harder to see at distance. So, like DLG, it's going to be more of a close-in ship. Consequently, it probably should tend to better minimum sink and max L/D rather than having great 'legs' for roaming all over the sky. This tends to drive the design towards lower aspect ratios. Due to the span limit, a high aspect ratio 2M may start to run into Re problems. Carrying more wing area will allow a lower wing loading with modest attention to building techniques. This should also help with the launch as more area would help to carry the tow weight better. The airfoils often used for 2M are not particularly well optimized for this class. If you run X-Foil on a number of the popular 2M sections, they really aren't that great below ~ 80,000. It's probably heretical to say this but the MH32 is not a great 2M TD airfoil. For that matter, neither are the SA or SD sections. Again, a look at those sections in X-Foil will indicate that in the lower Re regime, they become 'draggy' in the middle of the bucket. This compromises their ability to run effectively. So a couple of suggestions; - Look to lower aspect ratio designs. An evaluation discussed in RCSD a few years back suggests the 8 to 11 range is about right. You can't just change AR arbitrarily. You also have to account for the total weight and wing loading change when you tweak AR. When you do that, AR really isn't a huge factor for a 2M in this general range, - Sort through the Drela sections, many of them are much better in the intermediate speed range than any of the sections commonly used for 2M, - If you're going with a V-tail, size the surfaces correctly. Biggest mistake I've seen (and flown!) with some of the euro designs is too small a tail area and an inappropriate V-angle. My impression is that most of these are converted 2M slopers that some distributors wants to sell as TD ships, - Work a bit on keeping the weight in the 30oz range. A ballast box is great for the windy days but it's tough to add lightness. Back to the original list (Super-V, Duck and Laser). They all tend to run with more wing area than some 2M designs. And the tail surfaces (especially for the Super-V) are sized appropriately. A really nice update would be to change out the sections to something like the AG3X series, maybe tweak the AR into the 9'ish range and use current construction techniques to bring the weight down into the 30oz range or less. Sorry for the digression. Back to the cave to cut some wings and try it out. Great NATS. Sorry I couldn't stay for more events. Thanks Marc, Jim and all the CDs, helpers and LSF guys who made it a terrific meet. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 2M Rambles
Daryl (and list), Thank you for the comments on 2M design. Your input is extremely valuable as both a designer and competitor. The stability issue is well put. Just to clarify aspect ratio a bit, some design work was done 2 years ago that suggests optimal AR for 2M is somewhere between 8 and about 11. The range and boundaries are 'soft' depending on the pilot's preferences. This was done on the basis of a fairly detailed polar analysis which uses UIUC airfoil data or X-Foil results, a modestly detailed description of the planform and some assumptions about parasitic drag and fuselage wetted area. Why such a broad range? Well, once a design is set, decreasing AR increases wing area (and the associated tail volumes) which increases the weight (but reduces the wing loading), increases induced drag, reduces profile drag coefficients a bit due to Reynolds number, etc. etc. It's an interesting interplay but one has to consider that weight is not an arbitrary parameter but is tied to the planform once a general construction method is adopted. The span loading issues that you mentioned are not addressed in this type of analysis. Nor are handling, turning, stability, etc. etc. So there's a lot more to the picture once the general planform parameters are established. Field experience and the pilot's preferences are the deciding factors. The other thing that comes into play (for 2M and smaller) is the flow attachment on the airfoil. The Drela sections are just better designed that way than just about anything that preceded them. You can compare X-Foil with UIUC data for those sections where measurements have been made. The result is generally gratifying. Extending that analysis to the AG sections leads to the observation of separation bubbles in many of the popular sections used for 2M. The bubble generally appears at modest Cl values so the problem is not high drag at high Cl (low speeds) but in the intermediate speeds (cruise). Consequently, airfoil choice for 2M will be particularly sensitive in the mid-speed range (generally higher than max L/D - about the range where you want to scoot to cover ground). At these Cls, induced drag is not really an issue (AR is not terribly important at lower Cl). Profile drag is the big issue and the non-Drela sections are generally not great in this range. When you go to open class, the chords and speeds go up enough that the problem tends to go away. Bottom line, there are a lot of trade-offs. Input from guys who have your level of field experience are invaluable to the design process. Polars look real good on paper but if all it does is run great in a straight line then it's not much use. However, a polar is a useful starting point and the calculations are generally supported by what little field data there is. It's a little tough to go into too much more detail on RCSE. Also probably not of general interest to everyone on the list. Is this topic of sufficient interest to open a 2M forum on RCGroups where some more detailed numbers, graphs etc. can be posted. Or does such a forum already exist? Thanks very much for the feedback Good luck with the girlfriends. In 1963, Jimmy Soul had a #1 hit with some interesting advice along those lines. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Limited Span XC
Just wrapped up 2 days with Team Polecat at NATS XC. Got to observe a number of very well crafted XC ships, some great flights by some great pilots and 3 (yup, that's THREE) LSF 5 Goal and Returns on Sunday. (In addition to several IIIs and IVs). I'm sure those directly involved will post more on that. Although the weather on Sunday was great, the distance tasks were well earned and the smiles on the Level V qualifiers were both for the satisfaction of the task and probably some relief at making it around the challenging Nats course. But what started as a 'fun' attempt at 1.5m XC wound up being a really interesting task and merits further consideration. Entering a 1.5m ship (DLG) in XC was an idea hatched up by Ed Franz and Denny Maize. Shane Spickler, Doug Harnish and I took the bait and helped out. Saturday was too windy to effectively use the course (pretty much the same for the large ships as very few even made it on the course). Sunday was much more favorable and Denny was one of the first on the course in the AM. Didn't quite make it to the graveyard but we were encouraged with the .35mi distance as a starting point - at least we weren't going to be skunked!. During the day, the lift continued to improve and the experience gained by the team was invaluable. Ed went out on a run to guide us through some of the details and wound up achieving 0.9mi. Later in the morning, Shane and Denny made1.1 mile goals. Right after lunch the lift looked good so Denny, Rob Glover and I took off for what turned into a 1.75mi goal (past the graveyard, around the corner of the HQ building, through the 'valley of sink' by the hobby shop, around the second way point and down the road towards the tree tunnel before getting downed by the wind shadow behind the tree line around the first farm house).From that experience we learned that a DLG had to cut the 2nd way point corner a bit to miss the wind shadow. Last flight of the day was with Shane at the helm, Denny coaching and the whole rest of the crew in the bed of my Ranger going pell-mell down the road to try and beat the closing bell. Cutting the corner and cruising over the bean field helped as we got 1.9mi down the course. Certainly not trophy class distance but we will claim that as the new XC record on the NATS course for a limited wing span (1.5m) ship. Although perhaps seen as a humorous entry, we were all quite serious about the attempt. After experiencing XC with this class of ship, we would all probably agree that the setup of the plane, flying skills, teamwork and perhaps even the plane design set this apart from both conventional XC flying and DLG contest flying. The skills needed to get down the course are very different from the launch and timing skills in a DLG contest. The teamwork needed to make the whole effort come together is very satisfying and is also quite different from the experience of a DLG contest. The way the pilot (and team) has to work the course is VERY different from that of the open class XC ships. A 1.5m ship simply cannot achieve the altitude of the XC planes. Consequently, ground effects that large ships cruise above become the most significant parts of the 1.5m experience. Wind shadows from tree lines and houses, the roll of a hill and the pressure/downwash sides are critical encounters for a small ship. Cloud shadows and sunny hillsides can make or break the run. Cruising the cloud base is inaccessible to a DLG. Diving at 80+mph is so far off the polar profile for the smaller ship that it's simply not an acceptable alternative even if the altitude is available. Guys, flying a DLG on a XC course is a really significant challenge. Flying open class XC certainly helps with the team, driving, spotting and other operational skills. But flying below 800ft brings on a whole new set of XC flying challenges. It also brings on a whole new set of challenges as compared to those needed to effectively fly DLG contests. Driving that ship all over the map over different terrain with different contours producing different effects each time you come by is really tough to figure out. But it's really satisfying when you've got it. Each run got longer based on the experience learned by the previous team pilot on the course. I'm not sure how much farther we could have gone but with some more time and experience 4 miles or so on that course would be quite possible (not past the tree tunnel - no way we could have run the plane over that element). Based on this experience, I would certainly encourage others to enter 1.5m ships in XC, especially at the Nats. After Friday's DLG contest, participating in XC was an equally satisfying experience. 1.5m XC flying is so very much different from open class XC that it may merit some additional discussion and development. Since we launched from a hi-start both days, a non-discus rated ship would work equally well for this event. I think
[RCSE] Re: 2006 NATS Handlaunch Photos/Scores
George, Thanks - it was a great meet at a really good soaring site - AMA has improved the grounds significantly since I was last here a few years back. The guys who placed earned every point. The level of competition in DLG continues to climb every year and the level of information sharing by the top competitors continues to parallel that ascent. A meet like this is an excellent opportunity to learn from these guys both by watching them 'at work' and by asking them to time and offer advice on the spot. For a 61 year old, I ain't ashamed of missing wood by a bit. I would really encourage those in the mid and south west to travel to events like this (and IHLGF, Polecat, etc.). We have a ways to go in those regions to be able to compete with the east and west coast effectively. The only way to understand the level of skills out here is to come out and get your butt kicked a few times. It's humbling but educational. It's a unique opportunity to meet guys that share this interest as well as a great way to catch up with old friends. A special thanks to DLG CD Ed Franz and asst-CD Denny Maize for a very well organized and enjoyable event. See y'all at TNT. - Dave R Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:59:12 -0500 From: George Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] 2006 NATS Handlaunch Photos/Scores Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And just one out of the list below... Looks like the Okie done good! Way to go Dave Register. gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Muncie Weather?
Temperature at my flying field in Oklahoma was 106 today and heading higher tomorrow. Not enough Gatorade in the world to take much more of that! Looking forward to those balmy high '80s in Muncie this weekend! - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Why turn off the IPD filter.
Don't know if I'm the only one with this experience but both Rxs that I've used with DSP and other front end signal processing have failed miserably in my discus planes. These are the Sombra 7 and the FMA M5V2. I had (still have) very good response from my standard M5s (no longer available) but get lock-outs and swamping with the V2 at contests. Same with the Sombra, even after the temperature problem had been addressed. They are both retired now. Not limited to low and slow and coming back. I have several metal roof buildings at the field where I fly and both these Rxs run into problem within several hundred feet of these structures. My Futaba's, Hitec E6's and old M5's go through these regions without any problems but both of the other units tend to go crazy, lock out and crash. I suspect that the bounce from the metal roof presents a stronger signal than the direct path RF and the slight time offset confuses the filtering circuitry. This is probably an excellent technology but may not be fine-tuned yet for some applications? - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #7617
have you guys seen this? there's a really cool shoot of two of them at the end. http://www.break.com/index/basejumpfly.html Jeez. Looks like Elvis doing a 'Rocky the Flying Squirrel' routine. No Way! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Blue Skies Over Texas (DLG)
Summaries of the DLG contest at Southfork this weekend are posted at: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470439highlight=blue+skies This was the first leg of the Blue Skies Challenge (Texas-New Mexico). Conditions were tough on Sunday but a very well run and enjoyable contest with some incredible flying both days. The flyoff was one of the best slugfests I've seen at a DLG event. Some really kick-a** flying from all of the top guys. Dwain Carter took first, Austin Williams second and Aradhana Singh Khalsa third but it was anybodys game right up to the last launch of the last round. If you missed this one, you missed a really great experience. Next one is Blue Skies Over New Mexico at Moriarty on May 20-21 (Aradhana CD) Thanks to Tim Bennett (CD) and the Soaring League of North Texas for hosting a really fine weekend event. Tim and the club's hard work to sponsor this contest, and DLG development in the region, is really appreciated. - Dave R. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Who remembers The Old Buzzard video?
And it's still available (VHS format) at Taylor's web site: http://www.soaringstuff.com/ with a description here (some of the links aren't working quite right): http://www.soaringstuff.com/buzzvid.html Paul's Naton's DVD is very good and technically more thorough but for just 'plane' fun (and education), the Old Buzzard's video is still the best. Discusses the 'river of air' concept which makes for a great mental image when you're out looking for lift. The out-takes at the end are worth the price all by themselves. - Dave R -- Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:08:31 -0400 From: John Roe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: Who remembers The Old Buzzard video? Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...and Dave Thornberg? Still available? DVD? john roe www.roenation.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #7257
Try this one. Works well and reasonably priced: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?I=LXHHS2P=7 Gyros are generally beneficial for a poly but not as useful for a flaperon style DLG. Subject: Hand launch Gyro I am looking for a gyro for my hand launch, I am not a competitive flier so I don't need the best. I want a moderate priced gyro that will get my launches reasonably on track. Suggestions please. jj RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Model Aviation
Darwin, Jim, Dave, Gordy and anyone who has contributed to any mag or periodical on a soaring topic: THANK YOU! Having been a newsletter editor for too long and having written monthly for RCSD for about 6 years, putting together a column, even on a topic you really enjoy, is tough work. The hours aren't great and the only pay you get is the occasional comment or feedback from the readers. You guys have done, and continue to do, a great job. That said, I'd love to see more in MA about soaring but that's not where the majority of the readers are going. So be it. The monthly (bi-monthly) soaring columns are great, NATS coverage is very much appreciated and the occasional articles on soaring are a way to keep our side of the hobby in front of the rest of the community. RCSD is one outlet for soaring specific interests. Forums like RCSE and RCGroups are other ways to get information and ideas. But the bottom line is that no one should complain about lack of coverage if they've never written an article for their newsletter or submitted something to RCSD or some other mag. Every one has some knowledge or experience worth sharing. Write it up! I can't tell you how many times someone has sent an e-mail noting a favorite topic they'd like to have covered. In most cases my response was - 'great idea, how about you write it and you can have the column space this month'. Judy Slates was always agreeable to that. Only two folks ever took me up on the offer (Harley Michaelis with an early release on the RDS system and Greg Ciurpita with several articles on lift distribution and circling flight). Gentlemen, start your word processors. This 'problem' goes away if we all share the load a bit. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TNT Contest Dates
Oct 12-14 SLNT Posts a lot of club information on their web site. PDF newsletter is also available there: http://www.slnt.org/2006_contest_sched.htm ** Subject: TNT contest dates Does anyone know the dates for this years TNT contest. Some time in mid October, usually. I am trying to set an October date at Muncie for F3B team select and don't want to use their date. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TNT Contest Dates
Oct 12-14 SLNT Posts a lot of club information on their web site. PDF newsletter is also available there: http://www.slnt.org/2006_contest_sched.htm ** Subject: TNT contest dates Does anyone know the dates for this years TNT contest. Some time in mid October, usually. I am trying to set an October date at Muncie for F3B team select and don't want to use their date. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Dial a channel
Recent synth module comments from: Gordy: a couple of times I hadn't brought my xtals along and I didn't the luxury of having a clear channel at a contest or slope...and it cost me planes Martin: Those rotary switches on the synth modules are not designed for continuous use. AMEN brothers GM. A while back I switched to the synth module for the 9C for precisely the reason Gordy mentioned. [Wow, it is REALLY worrisome that I actually agree with Gordy on something :)]. I had been traveling with multiple modules for the Tx and a bag full of crystals but even that was a bit limiting on some of my travels. The only time I've been shot down in the last 20 years was when I couldn't get on a clear channel last year. I'll admit it was not entirely the other guys fault - I should have been more pro-active in tracking down the missing pin that round. However, for those who travel a lot to contests or fun-flys, having a frequency agile capability is a major asset. It's not for everyone, and due caution must be exercised to be sure you're on the frequency you intended. But when it works, it works very well and takes away one more thing to worry about while you're on the road. That said, there are problems with some of the current implementations. Martin's comments are right on the money and the frequency settings on my module have misfired once already, The solution was to run the dial one step past where you want and then bring it back. Switch contacts will be the weak link on the modules with physical settings like this. Mine hasn't been switched all that often so I was surprised when this happened a few weeks ago. The electronic setting (as in the high-end equipment) is a great improvement but not readily deployable in older platforms. And the Rx end of the system is not quite as reliable as I'd like (my opinion only). The demands of DLG put a high premium on weight and size and the few that might meet this requirement haven't worked out real well in that environment. So we're really dealing with a technology in transition, Hopefully the more automated units such as the 14MZ and some of the Seeker technologies will evolve into a reliable and affordable package which will become standardized enough that it will be generally affordable to most users. It's a bit like the ongoing thread about radio and servo evolution. Many of the concepts we take for granted now were experimental and flown only by guys who had a high risk tolerance. I think we're a little further down the risk path with current synth capability but hopefully there's more good stuff coming. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Those crazy lazy dials... :-) Spectra Module
Oklahoma experience: Fut9CH (3 years) with Fut synth module (1 year). Flown ~ 3-4 times a week (It's nice to be retired!). Usually once/week frequency change depending on which models are being flown. Worked flawlessly for ~ 1 year. Had one bad setting at the field about 6 weeks ago - dials were set on Ch 19 but actual frequency was Ch 18. Basically, the little detents on the 'ones' dial didn't click in place properly. Rotated past and reset back to 19 and it worked OK. I've replicated this on the bench. Unfortunately, there's no way to be sure without turning on the Tx. So these days I check at home or at the Hotel before heading to the field with whatever I'm flying that day. These are great units and I'm really glad others are getting years of service from them. But after a year it looks like the switches are getting a little weak on mine so I'd still vote for an affordable, electronically programmable variant that I'm sure will be coming some day. - Dave R (Bartlesville tonight and most nights unless it's the 2nd weekend (Dallas)) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: // Not sure what continuous means, but lets see, about 4 years since I did the conversion on my RX, same module, and a personal goal to try to fly every day somewhere in the world (failed that one a bunchdamn weather!..and work :-) But and incredible amount of use and those dials are still snug and the module still dead on . Its been wet a bunch of times, radio and all, contests and slope...frozen and cooked. So while Martin is right, in fact they are pretty much invulnerable in our usage. Now the numbers have been gone for a while and I had to use a ink pen to remark them a few times :-) Gordy FT Lauderdale tonite, Key Biscayne tomorrow RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Carbon Supra #48
I'm reminded of some advice Hi Johnson gave me many years ago. We were making early composite wings (~ 1975, 'Eagle' series). I was curious how he optimized the strength to weight ratio. Hi's reply was that he made a wing that he knew was too strong and heavy. Then he made a few more, taking out a little something each time. When it broke, he put back what he last took out. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Rubber Duck Antenna
From: Ron Quintana [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Power/Rubber Duck Anyone had any experience using these in place of the OEM telescoping antenna? Yes. ~ 10 years with Futaba Txs (7UGFS and 9C). Haven't had a 'hit' yet. Is the range loss significant? No. Only problems I've seen are the same as with OEM systems - receiver antenna positioning especially in carbon/kevlar environments. Out of sight range with 3M ships. Good low altitude control with DLGs. Particularly useful (for me) with DLGs - helps prevent 'bent antenna' syndrome. There is some loss of signal but not enough to affect range in any way I've seen. Antenna lobe pattern is different but more favorable for pointing the Tx at the plane. Be aware that since these are not OEM, a CD can disallow their use - but I've not seen that rule invoked over the years. For the 9C, there's an installation article in the Feb, 2003 RCSD. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Rubber Duck Antenna Pattern
Field test of a Rubber Duck vs a whip on page 6 of this newsletter. Keep in mind that our normal Tx grip has us pointing the antenna at the plane most of the time. http://www.propstoppers.org/pdf_files/june04.pdf - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] ARFs, Woodies, etc.
I've built (assembled?) parts by Phil, wood kits, scratch built (own-design woodies and all composite) and even foamie electric ARFs over the last 35 years of modeling. Hope to roll a tailboom or two in a couple of weeks to complete the cycle. It's all fun. But isn't the REAL skill what we do with this stuff in the air? There are those who are fortunate enough to have the time and building skills to scratch build. Then there are those who barely have time to make it to the schoolyard to fly. For the latter, suppliers like Phil and even some of the true ARFs and moldies are a godsend. Seems to me the emphasis should be on teaching flying skills and enjoyment of same. I've won a contest or two with scratch builts that were up against kilo-buck moldies. And lost a whole lot more with moldies that were beaten by better pilots flying whatever they brought (remember the Rose Bowl when Joe beat a bunch of us with an EPP 2M that got pre-flighted the night before?). So it's what you do in the air and how much fun you're having that really counts. Just soloed a guy with an EPP electic ARF. That smile of accomplishment looks to be permanently stuck on his face. Does it matter that he assembled the ARF or built from a kit? Nope! That huge SEG he's still wearing is all that counts. And now he wants to go after a competition DLG and then maybe a 2M. Who knows, maybe scratch building is in his future? But I'll guarantee he'll never have a moment quite like he had when he soloed with that ARF. That's what this hobby is all about. How you get there is secondary. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Lost Your Cookies
Gordy, Gordy, Gordy! Wrong technology! Should have used a GPS navigation system. Oh the inhumanity of it all! - OkieSoar Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:44:59 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: assisted soaring,etc, tonite's observations along that topic So I went out to get some Chinese take out, I managed to get there without my Picolario and back, but not in time. My two Catahoula's had managed to seek out a rubber maid container with about 40 Cowboy cookies just made last nite and one of the best batches the little lady had ever baked. (photos available..of the dogs not the cookies). Between the two of them they ate every single cookie (Cowboy cookies were chocolate chip with oatmeal)... By the time I got home all that was left was crumbs on the floor. Now I can't tell you if they would have felt less satisfied had they used a Picolario to find that container versus just using their nose's to read the air so I guess this isn't very definitive as to that topic, cuz they looked pretty satisfied periodkind of like JB after a win with onePicolario that is, not Catahoula or Cowboy cookie. However I can tell you that I would have very much preferred not to have experienced the experiment at all. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: LSF - Woodies/Moldies
A couple of comments on the woodie/moldie thread: 1) Thanks to the organizers for proposing this event. It should be great no matter what aircraft are flown. Really looking forward to this one. 2) I think when we talk about woodies or moldies we're may also be differentiating by performance types and not exclusively by material types. Differentiating by materials is an obvious way to do it at the sign-in desk. But in the air, what's really the difference? Woodies tend to be lower wing loading, minimum sink floaters while moldies tend to higher loadings with camber changing ability to hunt and then core well. Neither is 'better' in an absolute sense. They both reflect a flying style preference and that's great. I'm also reminded that Muncie can have days of very spotty light lift. And I'm painfully reminded (frequently) that on those kind of days, planes like AVAs and Bubble Dancers leave a lot of us moldie guys in the dust. Go for it, woodies. Nothing in the rules says they're not capable of beating anyone if the conditions are right. - Dave R Flying something is a lot better than flying nothing RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Beginner Radios
You guys already hit one of my favorites - one of the three channel radios (Futaba or Hitec are the ones I know). Things that are useful include V-tail coupling, servo reversing, FM on something other than the 27MHz band (for flying), double tuned receiver and NiCd batteries. The latter adds to the cost but is a good investment. I used to be prone to a more high-end radio as a starter but the cost and performance of the three channels is very good and they can always be used for RES, or RE/Throttle, sloping and other fun things over the years. V-tail coupling on these is a bit primitive - the throws are fixed and generally split 50/50 between elevator and rudder throw so it's hard to get enough rudder but still keep the elevator from being too twitchy. They're OK for flying wings, and great for R/E slopers, many of the Park Flyers as well as for Aileron/Elevator/Throttle foamie warbirds (I have one on a foamie Zero electric and it's a blast) If one knew they were going to be in the hobby for a while, I'd strongly suggest one of the low end programmable systems. I talked one of my students into an Optic 6 and never regretted it. Digital trims made it hard to inadvertently change the trim setup (a major problem for a newbie when you accidentally bump the conventional trim sliders). End point adjustment was a major benefit for 'tuning' the plane for the student's capabilities. Multiple memories made it possible to stick with one tranny for the next plane or two that came along. Much more flexibility in V-tail coupling so you can set it up a lot better for V's and wings. A bit more up front cost but a good investment for the next several years. Futaba, JR, Hitec, Airtronics and others all make entry level programmable systems. Dave Garwwod reviewed an Airtronics unit in RCSD a while back. The Hitec has been covered in some of the mags. All good stuff! Just my two cents. Hard to go wrong with a lot of things that are out there now. If there's a club in the area or a few Old Flying Buddies that you can hook up with, the local preference probably trumps most other opinions. - Dave R On Wednesday 21 December 2005 06.51, Norm wrote: I'd like to hear your opinions on what you think is a good radio system to get for someone just learning to fly. Something to use with basic electric trainers, foamie combat wings, and warbirds. Thanks guys- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Trophies
U, are you REALLY sure you want to give the winners the plague? keep the main trophy the way it is but just give a small non returning plague to the 2-5 or 2-3 spots up in front of everone @ Visalia. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #6657
Houston Hawks: http://houstonhawks.org/ - Dave R Hey Folks ! Who / where Can I contact for info, soaring, Houston Area? websites ? TNX CJ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: TNT
It's hard to believe but the TNT is next weekend. I'll be there as the only one from OKC, but I'm bringing my Tulsa homies to bring some Texas wood home. See everyone there! gv And for those of us Tulsans who never seem to quite make it to the top, there's always Miss Ellie's Deli! C'mon down to Dallas - DLG Fri AM, RES Fri PM, then two days of UNL. Great field, great pilots, great eats, great time. See y'all at Southfork. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Bob HLG
Soaring@airage.com wrote: From: Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Foameron memory lane Joe's not too widely known but he's famous to me and many others. I loved the Foameron and his HLG called the Bob. Genius designs that were made with the simplest of materials. Cheap materials, easily constructed yet his kits performed well. Genius! AMEN! Bob was a great little ship for it's time. Really worked, rugged enough, easy to build, easy to fix. Great entry for javelin flying. There's an old review in RCSD, somewhere around 1998 I think. Got some pictures in my 'Bob' file. Clear tape over extruded foam for the wing - who'da thunk it! Where did the 'Torque and Recoil Club' moniker come from? - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #6337
The UIUC group issued a report which covered trips. Indeed, some of the Eppler sections do benefit from being 'tripped'. However, the dimensions and placement of the trip can significantly affect the result. Following the earlier Eppler work, the Illinois group (Mike Selig and his folks) developed a number of airfoils that didn't need require trips. In many cases, adding trips didn't accomplish much other than a modest drag penalty. The recent work by Mark Drela is optimized for low Re applications beyond what was done at Illinois (hope that's not stepping on any toes but it shows in the X-Foil and wind tunnel results). So basically many of the sections used today really don't need trips and may lose some performance with them. But many earlier sections (a number of the Eppler airofils as well as the old NACA 4 and 5 digit sections) had better low Re performance (typically, low speeds) with trips. The specific UIUC reference is Volume 3 of Summary of Low-Speed Airfoil Data, chapter 6, originally published in 1997. The reasons for tripping the airflow are very nicely discussed in this publication as well. Airfoils that don't manage the laminar to turbulent transition well are among the ones that may benefit from a physical trip. The E374 was investigated in the subject report and trips had a significant response. The SD7037 was also investigated and the trip effect was much less noticeable. Subject: Tripping modern airfoils, and why do flaps and spoilers do what they do? Bob Dodgson tripped his E214-equipped wings to achieve better performance. I'm not aware of any other sailplane designers who recommend this. Does anyone today recommend this as a way to improve airfoil performance? Was it ever a legitimate idea in the first place? If it's something that actually works, what kinds of airfoils benefit most from it? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: V-Tail
Justin, For us old geezers, it kinda comes down to a choice between ogling Kathy Ireland or Bella Abzug. - Dave R Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:41:56 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: rc Soaring Exchange Soaring@airage.com Subject: Thermal duration V or + tail Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've noticed that the Europeans seem to prefer the V tails but the Americans seem to prefer the plus tails for thermal duration. Why the difference? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: V-tail
Dave you are creeping me out here. Bella Abzug? Justin - Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. And there's an age at which it's like an old dog chasing a car - what the heck do you do with it if you ever catch it? But more to the point - Joe and Don had (have?) an excellent discussion on V-tail design on the DJ website. Having flown quite a few of both types, the differences are ones of aestehtics but with the caveats: - For the same tail moment, the volume coefficients (horizontal and vertical) really need to be about the same to make a fair comparison. As Mark noted in a recent post, the euro V-designs tend to be low in the vertical component of these design values. I've noticed this is in several 2M euro designs that I've tried and the problem (for me) is too little vertical volume coefficent (often half of what we'd use in a normal X-tail) and low dihedral angle. These complement each other to make the rudder yaw response rather weak as compared to many US designs. Consequently, my impression is that the 2M ships that are sold as TD in the US are really converted slopers for which a low rudder volume coefficient and EDA isn't all that critical. Since the yaw response to rudder is weak, and the dihedral angle is low, it can be tricky setting up aileron differential and rudder compensation for coordinated turns with these ships for TD purposes (again - for me). - For a V-tail, you don't need much elevator travel but you need a lot of rudder travel. This seems to be compounded by a weird pitch-yaw coupling on large 'rudder' type movements in a V. That can require differential for the V surfaces as well. My impression is this gets more pronounced if the hinge line is angled significantly. If you look at the Super-V designs of Mark LeVoe, you'll note that the horizontal and vertical volume coefficient is about in the mid-range for conservative X-tail designs. I think for US TD work, most folks have found the handling of a Super-V to be very good. Different strokes for different folks. A V is a little more challenging to set up properly but works fine once you get there. No offense intended to any euro designers with these comments. Just personal observations from a limited number of well-crafted ships. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] 12V Bench Power Supply
A newbie here in town borrowed one of my converted PC power supplies for charging his electric and then started looking for a new PC supply of his own. He found a really good deal which I've converted and it works very well. In our area, used PC supplies are getting harder to find (for free) and it pains me to pay $20 for a used supply. This conversion is very easy (see Red's Battery Clinic article at http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/) and follows the ATX conversion with the exception that you only need to ground the PS-On wire to make the supply work properly. No need for the 'Power Good' line. On this one the PS-On wire was green on the motherboard connector but it's clearly marked on the circuit board inside the case. Supply is a 250W unit from Tiger Direct. Cost is $15 +S/H. Add a couple of bucks and a little sawing on the case to fit a banana plug receptacle, clip and shield a few wires and you're done. I've been running this one for a few days on GP, Sirius AstroFlight and FMA chargers for NICd, NiMH and LiPos (Tx, Rx and motor packs) with no problems. Haven't pushed current too hard (couple of amps) but the supply is rated for 10A so it will probably deliver 8 or so. Just FYI for those looking for an easy way to get 12V bench power for your field chargers. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: 12V Under the bench.....
Yup, that's slick (12V battery on trickle). I use the battery on my sport winch - stick it under the bench and clamp on chargers as needed. Forgot to note that the $15 PC supply has a rocker switch for power. Most PC supplies do not have the switch on the PS. I've modified my chargers for banana plugs but have also made a banana plug (female) to battery clip cable (using the clips cut off the original charger wire). A little more work but allows more convenient field use. RS has a cigarette lighter to banana plug connector that's handy. About 5 bucks as I recall. Cheap fuse in the body but it works OK. Thanks, - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: ATX Transient
The other thought (in addition to the 5V line) An Astro LiPo charger did the same thing - shuts off the ATX if current setting is high when you clip on the battery. The trick was to set the current low initially, then bring it up. The ATX could handle the final current fine, but not the transient. How about turning on the Orbit Pro with the ATX off then let the switch from the ATX run everything. That might minimize the transient and get things going. - d I'm using a converted ATX power supply as well and it's great, with one exception. My Orbit Pro charger has a power switch, and when I turn it on the power supply shuts down. I've never opened it up, but imagine it might have a largish capacitor that sucks a largish amount of current when first turned on. Maybe the power supply sees this current and shuts off to protect itself. Weird, but my other chargers, including a GP Triton work great on this power supply. Dan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: RCM
I'm also among the many who regret the passing of RCM. One of my friends used to be a copy editor there, way back when it was just getting started out in San Dimas. It was a great mag, good coverage, good columns and excellent photo and art work at a time when good color copy was a rarity in modeling mags. However, things change. We get the magazines we pay for and printed media is becoming more expensive all the time. Internet publishing seems to be on the rise. RCSD's existing format is of that nature. I would encourage those who feel something's missing to contribute articles, how-to's, etc. to RCSD and any other format they would like to support. These publications are for modelers and by modelers. And that means US! I've written for mags and done newsletters for over 25 years - wrote some 60+ columns and articles for RCSD since 1998. In that time I've found the quickest way to deal with someone who has a storng opinion about what I've written is to comment: That's an interesting way to look at it. Why don't you write it up as an article and submit it to (fill in the publication name). Most folks bail out at that point. I've only found two cases where that dialog led to an article or series of articles. Both led to topics that were very worthwhile. My point is simply that we all have something to contribute and that responsibility doesn't lie exclusively with those who do columns for magazines. If you've got a good idea (and we all do), write it up and submit it. It takes a certain amount of sweat equity to do that but it's the only way ideas circulate. Nats coverage on RCSE, for instance, was way above the call of duty for those guys who did it. Their contribution is an example of folks putting in the effort to keep all of us informed. That type of effort is the best way to keep publishing (internet or otherwise) healthy. Momma used to say that if you weren't willing to do something about it, you had no right to complain. Publications REALLY need your input and any of the ones I've known would love to have the problem of too much stuff to print. Sad to see RCM go (and Model Builder before that). We all have a responsibility to share what we've learned, either at the field, in our newsletters and publications, or on the net. Thanks to all the folks at these mags who did so much for all of us. Hopefully a new round of contributors using new publication formats will continue that legacy. - Dave R. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
