Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Kees Nuyt]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:40:13 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
>if you haven't already noticed:
>
>http://www.sqlite.org/
>
>Even though the new look is "in place" you should
>understand this as a work in progress, not a done
>deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
>and bug reports.  

Currently there seems to be no link to the
http://www.sqlite.org/contrib page.

On the contrib page a link to 
http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=ManagementTools
would be helpful.
-- 
  (  Kees Nuyt
  )
c[_]

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Scott Baker]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
> if you haven't already noticed:
> 
> http://www.sqlite.org/
> 
> Even though the new look is "in place" you should
> understand this as a work in progress, not a done
> deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
> and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
> help in the following ways:
> 
>   *  Suggestions for something better to put on
>  the home page.  

There is a typo on the main page:

"The developers are continue to expand the capabilities of SQLite"

I'm assuming that should say "continuing" not "continue"

Also the parathized quote "(Some compiler optimizations such as
agressive function inlining and loop unrolling can cause the object
code to be much larger.)" seems redundant/obvious and could probably
be left out.

Just my $.02

- Scott

-- 
Scott Baker - Canby Telcom
RHCE - System Administrator - 503.266.8253

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Michael Scharf]

Hi,

the colors of the links are reversed: By default,
links that have not been visited are blue and visited
links are purple. The sqlite website makes visited links
green and unvisited links purple.

This is *very* confusing.

Michael

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Darren Duncan]

At 1:40 AM + 11/14/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

http://www.sqlite.org/

The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.


So I just looked at the current website right now, and the main page 
and other pages look very good from what I can tell.  Considerable 
improvements from the older website.


Now, a few points on terminology that may seem minor to others, but not to me:

1.  It is good that your main documentation is refering to SQLite as 
a "SQL DBMS" or "SQL engine" rather than using the word "relational" 
or "RDBMS" to describe it.  The SQL standard doesn't call SQL 
"relational" and neither do other people who know what the relational 
model of data actually is, so I'm happy to see that the SQLite 
website seems to follow technical accuracy in this regard.


2.  However, a different point needs adjusting in a few places, the 
term "database".  A "database" is a managed collection of data, and 
it is *not* a program or program code.  The website refers to SQLite 
being a "database" in a few places, but that is not true.  Other 
places correctly call it a "database engine" or "database management 
system" or "DBMS", and that is correct; the other references should 
be fixed to say "database engine" or such when referring to SQLite 
itself.  Only use the straight word "database" to refer to the data 
files or data file collections or RAM stores et al that store data 
managed by SQLite.


Here are specific places on the front page that need the update, and 
are probably typos:


* Unlike most other SQL databases, SQLite does not have a separate 
server process.


Actually, that's the only such typo I found on the front page (should 
change to "SQL database engines"); all other occurrances of 
"database" looked correct, also great news.  But this is something to 
keep in mind for the future if necessary.


Keep up the good work.

-- Darren Duncan

P.S.  I just noticed now that the 3.5.x line is now considered 
stable, which shows how much I was paying attention to some news 
details before ... thought it was still alpha.  Now hopefully 
DBD::SQLite for Perl will be updated to include it sometime soon.


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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Noah Hart]

Richard, I like the new website and layout, but find the initial page
much to wordy for an initial screen.

Just a suggestion:

Create lots of white space to the left of the Current Status/Common
Links box and leave the exiting paragraphs, but move them down visually


Something like the following:

[Title block]
[menu bar] Home Sitemap Documentation Download License News Developers
Support


WHAT  IS SQLITE?[ Existing Box Stays the
same]
   
  o   A SQL database engine
  o   Self-contained, so it can be embedded in your program
  o   Runs on more platforms than you can count on both hands
  o   Widely used
  o   Supported
  o   Reliable  
  o   Simple without being simplistic
  o   Free


Small, Fast, Reliable. Choose any three!


Now for the technical details:[Existing right hand box ends
here]

SQLite is a in-process library that . . .

SQLite is an embedded SQL database engine..
 
SQLite is a compact library. ...
 
SQLite has a reputation for being very reliable. ...

The SQLite code base is ...

We the developers hope ...




Regards,

Noah Hart



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

James Dennett wrote:

Dennis Cote wrote:

Dr Gerard Hammond wrote:

The first few words sound incorrect to me.

Shouldn't it be.

"SQLite is an in-process"

and even then I don't know what 'in-process' actually means.



I agree with this completely.

I can't say I have ever heard the term in-process before. Perhaps it

is

database administrator jargon.


I thought it common in the programming world.  It's certainly not a DBA
thing; DBAs tend *not* to work with in-process sytems, but rather with
client/server systems.


In any case, I don't think it adds anything to the first sentence. It
would be at least as effective without that term thrown in.


For those to whom the term has meaning, it adds something useful by
making the embedded nature of SQLite very clear (without using the
ambiguous term "embedded").

-- James



There was a suggestion here that professional web page designers be 
used.  That was not sensible since good web pages should be simple and 
straight forward and a capable software designer has all the necessary 
skills to create excellent web pages.  The sensible suggestion is that a 
skilled communicator help with the descriptive text so that it's meaning 
is clear to all and it grasps the attention of the reader instead of 
confusing with jargon and other examples of poor style.


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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[James Dennett]

Dennis Cote wrote:
> 
> Dr Gerard Hammond wrote:
> > The first few words sound incorrect to me.
> >
> > Shouldn't it be.
> >
> > "SQLite is an in-process"
> >
> > and even then I don't know what 'in-process' actually means.
> >
> >
> I agree with this completely.
> 
> I can't say I have ever heard the term in-process before. Perhaps it
is
> database administrator jargon.

I thought it common in the programming world.  It's certainly not a DBA
thing; DBAs tend *not* to work with in-process sytems, but rather with
client/server systems.

> In any case, I don't think it adds anything to the first sentence. It
> would be at least as effective without that term thrown in.

For those to whom the term has meaning, it adds something useful by
making the embedded nature of SQLite very clear (without using the
ambiguous term "embedded").

-- James


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Dennis Cote]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dennis Cote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

5) There is no link to the CVStrac home page on the navigation bar



Developers

  

Richard,

OK. I see that now.

When I saw the Developers link I thought it was a link to the bios and 
pictures etc. for you and the other developers that had been requested 
as an addition to the new website. I never even clicked it to see what 
was there (which is obvious now I guess).


When I go to CVStrac it is generally to look for, or to enter, bug reports.

I often use the timeline to keep myself appraised of changes that are 
happening to SQLite.


I have used the CVS source browser functions, but only to get a URL link 
to a file of interest for a posting to the mailing list.


In general I think the wiki would be better served if it was linked from 
the documentation page.


Perhaps the link on the navigation bar should be changed to Bug Reports 
or Bug Tracker, but that does not convey the fact that CVStrac is also 
used for new feature requests. I'm not sure what a better alternative 
would be, but Developers seems ambiguous and nearly everyone that uses 
SQLite is a developer, so it doesn't really mark stuff of interest to a 
subgroup of developers that might visit the website.


I'm concerned that users may come to the site to file a bug report, then 
fail to find the appropriate links, and therefore simply leave because 
it is too hard to get to the right page. I'm not sure if most would 
think to click a CVStrac link or a Developers link to do so. It seems to 
me there must be a better alternative, but I don't have a real good 
suggestion. Hopefully someone else will.


Dennis Cote



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Dennis Cote]

Dr Gerard Hammond wrote:

The first few words sound incorrect to me.

Shouldn't it be.

"SQLite is an in-process"

and even then I don't know what 'in-process' actually means.



I agree with this completely.

I can't say I have ever heard the term in-process before. Perhaps it is 
database administrator jargon.


In any case, I don't think it adds anything to the first sentence. It 
would be at least as effective without that term thrown in. In my mind, 
this is a simpler, and hence better, description of SQLite:


   SQLite is a library that implements a self-contained, serverless, 
zero-configuration, transactional SQL database engine.


It already covers all the keys points in-process is supposed to mean. It 
is a library. It is self-contained and serverless.


Dennis Cote

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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Samuel R. Neff]

The vast majority of database engines run as separate services on a machine
and clients communicate with them through a network protocol.  SQLite runs
in the same process as the host application either as a statically linked or
a dynamically loaded library  and shares memory space of the client.  This
provides for a large number of advantages when in-process db is appropriate
such as vastly easier integration with he client and almost completely
removal of need to marshal data around (certainly not across process
boundaries).

For example when running performance analysis of MS SQL server you usually
look at both the time it takes to execute any given query as well as the
time it takes to transfer the resulting data from server to client.  Since
SQLite is in-process, the transfer time is essentially zero.

You're right about the grammatical error though.. should be "an in-process".
The original proposed text on this list was "SQLite is a high-efficiency,
in-process, transactional" but "high-efficiency" was dropped without
changing "a" to "an".

HTH,

Sam


---
We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex
based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested
contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-Original Message-
From: Dr Gerard Hammond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:33 PM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

The first few words sound incorrect to me.

Shouldn't it be.

"SQLite is an in-process"

and even then I don't know what 'in-process' actually means.



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Daniel Önnerby]

I guess letting developers having opinions about the website is like to 
many chefs making a soup. Everyone have different opinions.


I like the new design but have a small comment about the rounded corners 
in the menu. If there are rounded corners in the menu - the content 
below the menu should have the additional margin as the radius of the 
rounded corner.

Like this: http://onnerby.se/~daniel/sqlite_example/


Best regards
Daniel

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Darren Duncan]

At 8:39 PM -0600 11/14/07, andy wrote:

 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 > >   *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -

 >  something better than "The World's Most Widely
 >  Used SQL Database".


How about:

"Small, Fast, Reliable.  Choose any three."

I'm not sure if I heard that someplace, but I googled it and didnt 
find a reference...


The original is more like "Good, Fast, Cheap; Pick Two", which 
describes the reality when a client wants to hire someone to do a 
custom job done for them.


But good open-source software that is already made allows you to say instead:

"Good, Fast, Cheap; Pick Three"

Taken at face value, that could be a good line in what it implies, 
that you can have your cake and eat it too.  SQLite is good, you can 
get it immediately (fast), and you can get it at no cost (cheap).


That said, this phrase can apply to any good open source software 
that is already done, and isn't specific to SQLite.  Or you could use 
it anyway.


Or you could go with what Andy suggested.

-- Darren Duncan

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

http://www.sqlite.org/



YUCK!

What happened?

Yesterday when I looked there was a simple summary of what SQLite was 
about centred on screen (the whole page fitted vertically and 
horizontally on one screen). Now there is a whole lot of garbage spread 
all the way across screen that I don't even want to attempt to read.


John

--
Regards
   John McMahon
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[C M]

I agree; less is more.  Way too many words on the front page now.

First, why have nav bars at top AND at the right side?  (Plus vertical nav
bars are best put on the left side. )

I'd recommend just (something like) this text on the main page:

SQLite is a free, public domain, compact, embedded SQL database engine that
works from a single disk file.  It's reliability, ease of use, and small
size has led it to be adopted in more applications than we can count,
including several high-profile projects. 
More technically, SQLite is a in-process library that implements a
self-contained ,
serverless,
zero-configuration ,
transactionalSQL database
engine, and transactions are
ACID  even if interrupted by system
crashes or power failures.  Click here to learn more.

If there are to be more graphics on that page, some small logos of the
projects
using SQLite might be both brighten things up and enhance the attractiveness
of the product.

[sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[andy]

 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> >
> >   *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -
> >  something better than "The World's Most Widely
> >  Used SQL Database".

How about:

"Small, Fast, Reliable.  Choose any three."

I'm not sure if I heard that someplace, but I googled it and didnt find 
a reference...


Also, apologies if this double posts... I tried first from gmane.org and 
it really didnt like me.


-Andy



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[drh]

Dennis Cote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 5) There is no link to the CVStrac home page on the navigation bar

Developers

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

Steven Fisher wrote:

On 14-Nov-2007, at 3:37 PM, John Stanton wrote:

I am looking at it on a wide screen and it does not render to the full 
screen width.  I would guess that making the toolbar an image would 
stop the wrapping.  The image would scale to 100%.


I used to think it was a good thing when web sites took advantage of the 
full width of my monitor. Then some started doing it. There's nothing 
worse than trying to read reasonably-sized text that's 20" wide.




Broadsheet newspaper publishers figured that out centuries ago and went 
to columns centuries ago.  Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.






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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Steven Fisher]

On 14-Nov-2007, at 3:37 PM, John Stanton wrote:

I am looking at it on a wide screen and it does not render to the  
full screen width.  I would guess that making the toolbar an image  
would stop the wrapping.  The image would scale to 100%.


I used to think it was a good thing when web sites took advantage of  
the full width of my monitor. Then some started doing it. There's  
nothing worse than trying to read reasonably-sized text that's 20" wide.


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

"Scott Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
thing?



There is a CSS parameter that limits the width.

max-width: 800px;

People who know tell me this is a good thing.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

It leaves a lot of white on either side when it displays on a high 
aspect ratio screen.  I am not so sure that it is a good thing to place 
any absolute pixel specs in a web page intended to be rendered on any 
available screen.  It is very nice to have pages which scale to each 
screen resolution by virtue of using relative addressing.  Annoying 
scroll bars and big, empty margins are avoided.


It would be a nicer presentation to fill the visible screen and not need 
to scroll.



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

I took a quick look at the page with Firebug and could see that there 
are spaces embedded in the toolbar, a Firefox feature.  They could be 
removed by concatenating the href's onto one line of text.  The font 
specified plus the spaces renders to a width greater than the table so 
it wraps.


I am looking at it on a wide screen and it does not render to the full 
screen width.  I would guess that making the toolbar an image would stop 
the wrapping.  The image would scale to 100%.


Scott Hess wrote:

I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
thing?

-scott


On Nov 14, 2007 10:59 AM, John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

There seems to be no simple solution to that problem of fonts not
scaling precisely other than to use images for the captions.  If someone
has one, let us know.


Scott Hess wrote:

I notice that in Firefox on Linux with a maximized window on a
1600x1200 screen, the "Support" link in the navbar wraps around.  The
navbar still looks nice, but since it's only half the width of my
screen, it shouldn't need to wrap.  It also happens with narrower
browser windows, I'm guessing most sizes above 800 pixels, and it also
happens if I increase my font size (indeed, it's possible my minimum
font size is set higher than the default, or something like that).

I see your request to submit patches to the CSS or HTML or whatever -
but I have no idea what I'm doing with such things :-).

-scott


On Nov 13, 2007 5:40 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

   http://www.sqlite.org/

Even though the new look is "in place" you should
understand this as a work in progress, not a done
deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
help in the following ways:

 *  Suggestions for something better to put on
the home page.

 *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
the CSS to make it look better, then send me
your adjustments (or post them here) that would
be a *big* help.

 *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -
something better than "The World's Most Widely
Used SQL Database".

 *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
bar in the upper right-hand corner.

Over the next couple of weeks we plan on adding
some additional pages to the site (mostly moving
over information currently in the wiki) and doing
additional reorganization and cleanup.  We also
plan to offer the documentation pages as a ZIP or
tarball download so that users can view them
offline.

The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Dennis Volodomanov]

The navigation bar for me is on 2 lines - Support is wrapped to the
second line. Is that intended? (doesn't look right :))

   Dennis




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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Richard Klein]

  *  Suggestions for something better to put on
 the home page. 


I see the home page has been expanded.  Very nice!

I would add some formatting to the overview text to
make it more visually appealing.

Perhaps make each paragraph a bullet item, with the
first sentence in bold:

  o *SQLite is an embedded SQL database engine.*  Unlike
most other SQL databases, SQLite does not have a ...

  o *SQLite is a compact library.*  With all features
enabled, the library size can be less than 250KiB,...

  o *SQLite is very reliable.*  [NOTE: This sounds less
wishy-washy then "has a reputation for being very
reliable."]  Over two-thirds of the source code ...

  o *SQLite is well supported.*  The SQLite code base is
supported by an international team of developers ...

Something along those lines ...

Cheers,
- Richard Klein


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[drh]

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_=D6nnerby?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> What happened to the download-page, I only see the "Direct Access To The 
> Sources Via Anonymous CVS"?
> 

Cockpit trouble.  Fixed now.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

Grzegorz Makarewicz wrote:

Michael Scharf wrote:

  *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -  something
better than "The World's Most Widely
 Used SQL Database".

I really like this tag line! However, it would be great if
there would be a link with some information that supports/explains
this statement. Anybody could say "The World's Most XXX".

In my opinion threads are very usefully within limited environments
where computation can be spitted by program logic or environments where
forking isn't possible.
Most SQL engines (server part) are using this point of view, but for
databases like SQLite - this should be irrelevant.

mak

PS
I - personally wouldn't see sqlite as client-server database -
oracle is much better, mssql too.
Embedded database with acid transactions - this is the market gap.

mak



We use Sqlite embedded in an application server as a client-server 
database and it performs very well and is rock solid.  On a value basis 
it is markedly superior to both Oracle and MSsql.  Sqlite wins in ease 
of use and maintenance, overhead, footprint and overall cost of usage 
making it a more productive tool.



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Steven Fisher]

On 13-Nov-2007, at 5:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 *  Suggestions for something better to put on
the home page.


Yeah. My first thought when I brought up that page was "There's no way  
I'm reading all that text!"... and I already use sqlite. I like the  
points it goes over, though. Maybe just (much) less detail on the main  
page? Converting to lists (main points bold, small amount of  
explanation in plain text) would probably be beneficial, too. Lists  
take less work to skim than a block of text.


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Daniel Önnerby]

I have to agree about the amount of text on the front page.
What happened to the download-page, I only see the "Direct Access To The 
Sources Via Anonymous CVS"?


Samuel R. Neff wrote:

Limiting the width is good, but the pixel-based limit can cause variations
on different resolutions and font settings.  I would suggest this instead:

max-width: 60em;

Which will cause the max width to adjust based on text size settings.

With the most recent change, I feel overwhelmed by the amount of text on the
front page.  I liked the previous version with just a paragraph a lot more.
Also I'd like to see the language bindings added to "Common Links".
  



HTH,

Sam


---
We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex
based products. Position is in the Washington D.C. metro area. If interested
contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:59 PM

To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

"Scott Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
thing?




There is a CSS parameter that limits the width.

max-width: 800px;

People who know tell me this is a good thing.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Dennis Cote]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

http://www.sqlite.org/

Even though the new look is "in place" you should
understand this as a work in progress, not a done
deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
help in the following ways:

  *  Suggestions for something better to put on
 the home page.  


  *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
 pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
 If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
 the CSS to make it look better, then send me
 your adjustments (or post them here) that would
 be a *big* help.

  *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line - 
 something better than "The World's Most Widely

 Used SQL Database".

  *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
 bar in the upper right-hand corner.


The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.



  

Richard,

A few things I have noticed since using the revised web site:

1) The line spacing of the sans-serif Verdana font is too tight, making 
it difficult to read in blocks of text. I would suggest adding 
"line-height: 16pt;" or something similar to the body section of your 
CSS. The additional spacing make the text areas more readable to me.


2) I generally find the default Verdana font size to be too large. The 
whole site looks better to me if I do (in Firefox) View->Text 
Size->Decrease once to reduce the font size everywhere.


3) I agree with Scott Hess who has reported that the max-width of 800px 
causes unnecessary wrapping in the navigation menu. In fact the current 
menu (with the sitemap link added) is too wide to fit in the allowed 
width on one line, and therefore wraps the support link to a second 
line. Also, on the CVStrac pages, it is only applied to the header area, 
so that the header is narrower than the CVStrac menu block on a wide 
window. I don't see the reason for limiting the width to 800 pixels when 
many people have much large screens these days. Maybe you could explain 
why you think it is necessary.


4) The colors used for links are too similar to the text color and to 
each other. If the links are supposed to standout from the text, the 
color should be more distinctive. I appreciate that the links are 
underlined, but I think a more distinctive color would help locating 
them quickly. Also, the color difference between visited links is 
insufficient to allow one to tell if a link has been visited or not with 
a glance, unless it is adjacent to another link. If you don't want to 
mark visited links, then make the colors the same. If you do, then make 
the color more obviously different from an unvisited link.


5) There is no link to the CVStrac home page on the navigation bar, or 
any of the pages reached from the navigation bar. I know I can go to the 
timeline and then click the home link, but there should be a more direct 
way to get to the CVStrac home page.


6) The same goes for the wiki pages. There should be a link from the 
documentation page, and probably also from the support page, if not 
directly from the navigation menu. People certainly won't use the wiki 
if they can't get to it easily.


HTH
Dennis Cote



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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Samuel R. Neff]

Limiting the width is good, but the pixel-based limit can cause variations
on different resolutions and font settings.  I would suggest this instead:

max-width: 60em;

Which will cause the max width to adjust based on text size settings.

With the most recent change, I feel overwhelmed by the amount of text on the
front page.  I liked the previous version with just a paragraph a lot more.
Also I'd like to see the language bindings added to "Common Links".

HTH,

Sam


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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:59 PM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

"Scott Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
> narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
> the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
> thing?
> 

There is a CSS parameter that limits the width.

max-width: 800px;

People who know tell me this is a good thing.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[drh]

"Scott Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
> narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
> the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
> thing?
> 

There is a CSS parameter that limits the width.

max-width: 800px;

People who know tell me this is a good thing.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Grzegorz Makarewicz]

Michael Scharf wrote:
>>   *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -  something
>> better than "The World's Most Widely
>>  Used SQL Database".
>
> I really like this tag line! However, it would be great if
> there would be a link with some information that supports/explains
> this statement. Anybody could say "The World's Most XXX".
In my opinion threads are very usefully within limited environments
where computation can be spitted by program logic or environments where
forking isn't possible.
Most SQL engines (server part) are using this point of view, but for
databases like SQLite - this should be irrelevant.

mak

PS
I - personally wouldn't see sqlite as client-server database -
oracle is much better, mssql too.
Embedded database with acid transactions - this is the market gap.

mak

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Scott Hess]

I probably am misunderstanding something.  The box scales down to
narrower windows just fine, so why can't the box scale until it hits
the width of my browser, and _then_ start doing the vertical-wrapping
thing?

-scott


On Nov 14, 2007 10:59 AM, John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There seems to be no simple solution to that problem of fonts not
> scaling precisely other than to use images for the captions.  If someone
> has one, let us know.
>
>
> Scott Hess wrote:
> > I notice that in Firefox on Linux with a maximized window on a
> > 1600x1200 screen, the "Support" link in the navbar wraps around.  The
> > navbar still looks nice, but since it's only half the width of my
> > screen, it shouldn't need to wrap.  It also happens with narrower
> > browser windows, I'm guessing most sizes above 800 pixels, and it also
> > happens if I increase my font size (indeed, it's possible my minimum
> > font size is set higher than the default, or something like that).
> >
> > I see your request to submit patches to the CSS or HTML or whatever -
> > but I have no idea what I'm doing with such things :-).
> >
> > -scott
> >
> >
> > On Nov 13, 2007 5:40 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
> >>if you haven't already noticed:
> >>
> >>http://www.sqlite.org/
> >>
> >>Even though the new look is "in place" you should
> >>understand this as a work in progress, not a done
> >>deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
> >>and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
> >>help in the following ways:
> >>
> >>  *  Suggestions for something better to put on
> >> the home page.
> >>
> >>  *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
> >> pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
> >> If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
> >> the CSS to make it look better, then send me
> >> your adjustments (or post them here) that would
> >> be a *big* help.
> >>
> >>  *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -
> >> something better than "The World's Most Widely
> >> Used SQL Database".
> >>
> >>  *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
> >> bar in the upper right-hand corner.
> >>
> >>Over the next couple of weeks we plan on adding
> >>some additional pages to the site (mostly moving
> >>over information currently in the wiki) and doing
> >>additional reorganization and cleanup.  We also
> >>plan to offer the documentation pages as a ZIP or
> >>tarball download so that users can view them
> >>offline.
> >>
> >>The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
> >>very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.
> >>
> >>--
> >>D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-
> >>To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>-
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -
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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

I would not agree with that.  Parallelism is very much architectural if 
it to be better than yet another layer of software loading down what is 
a non-parallel architecture.


It will be some time before the technology filters down to the mass users.

Joe Wilson wrote:

--- John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Threads simulated in software are a kludge to better utilize current 
processor and operating system architectures.  In time machines where 
the parallelism is handled in hardware will be more widely available and 
the threading will be transparent and highly efficient.



I first read the above as "In time-machines ..." instead of 
"In time, machines...".


The solution to parallelism is a software problem.
Hardware just provides the platform. The decomposition of tasks
to be run in parallel and their coordination is ultimately up to 
the programmer and the computer language/compiler.



  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Scott Hess]

I notice that in Firefox on Linux with a maximized window on a
1600x1200 screen, the "Support" link in the navbar wraps around.  The
navbar still looks nice, but since it's only half the width of my
screen, it shouldn't need to wrap.  It also happens with narrower
browser windows, I'm guessing most sizes above 800 pixels, and it also
happens if I increase my font size (indeed, it's possible my minimum
font size is set higher than the default, or something like that).

I see your request to submit patches to the CSS or HTML or whatever -
but I have no idea what I'm doing with such things :-).

-scott


On Nov 13, 2007 5:40 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
> if you haven't already noticed:
>
> http://www.sqlite.org/
>
> Even though the new look is "in place" you should
> understand this as a work in progress, not a done
> deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
> and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
> help in the following ways:
>
>   *  Suggestions for something better to put on
>  the home page.
>
>   *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
>  pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
>  If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
>  the CSS to make it look better, then send me
>  your adjustments (or post them here) that would
>  be a *big* help.
>
>   *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -
>  something better than "The World's Most Widely
>  Used SQL Database".
>
>   *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
>  bar in the upper right-hand corner.
>
> Over the next couple of weeks we plan on adding
> some additional pages to the site (mostly moving
> over information currently in the wiki) and doing
> additional reorganization and cleanup.  We also
> plan to offer the documentation pages as a ZIP or
> tarball download so that users can view them
> offline.
>
> The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
> very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.
>
> --
> D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -
>
>

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[John Stanton]

Threads simulated in software are a kludge to better utilize current 
processor and operating system architectures.  In time machines where 
the parallelism is handled in hardware will be more widely available and 
the threading will be transparent and highly efficient.


Joe Wilson wrote:

Threads are very much in the C tradition - minimalistic.
If you code in C you must know what you're doing anyway. 
C is by no means a high level or safe language.


But until an automatically parallelizing safe language with 
good performance becomes popular - this is what we got.
You just have to rely on simple conventions to minimize the 
risks.


--- Michael Scharf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Why Threads Are A Bad Idea:
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf

From the article:
  "Threads are a seemingly straightforward adaptation of the
  dominant sequential model of computation to concurrent
  systems. Languages require little or no syntactic changes to
  support threads, and operating systems and architectures
  have evolved to efficiently support them. Many technologists
  are pushing for increased use of multithreading in software
  in order to take advantage of the predicted increases in
  parallelism in computer architectures. In this paper, I
  argue that this is not a good idea. Although threads seem to
  be a small step from sequential computation, in fact, they
  represent a huge step. They discard the most essential and
  appealing properties of sequential computation:
  understandability, predictability, and determinism. Threads,
  as a model of computation, are wildly nondeterministic, and
  the job of the programmer becomes one of pruning that
  nondeterminism. Although many research techniques improve
  the model by offering more effective pruning, I argue that
  this is approaching the problem backwards. Rather than
  pruning nondeterminism, we should build from essentially
  deterministic, composable components. Nondeterminism should
  be explicitly and judiciously introduced where needed,
  rather than removed where not needed. The consequences of
  this principle are profound. I argue for the development of
  concurrent coordination languages based on sound, composable
  formalisms. I believe that such languages will yield much
  more reliable, and more concurrent programs."





  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Michael Scharf]

  *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line - 
 something better than "The World's Most Widely

 Used SQL Database".


I really like this tag line! However, it would be great if
there would be a link with some information that supports/explains
this statement. Anybody could say "The World's Most XXX".

Michael

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Joe Wilson]

Threads are very much in the C tradition - minimalistic.
If you code in C you must know what you're doing anyway. 
C is by no means a high level or safe language.

But until an automatically parallelizing safe language with 
good performance becomes popular - this is what we got.
You just have to rely on simple conventions to minimize the 
risks.

--- Michael Scharf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why Threads Are A Bad Idea:
> http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf
> 
>  From the article:
>"Threads are a seemingly straightforward adaptation of the
>dominant sequential model of computation to concurrent
>systems. Languages require little or no syntactic changes to
>support threads, and operating systems and architectures
>have evolved to efficiently support them. Many technologists
>are pushing for increased use of multithreading in software
>in order to take advantage of the predicted increases in
>parallelism in computer architectures. In this paper, I
>argue that this is not a good idea. Although threads seem to
>be a small step from sequential computation, in fact, they
>represent a huge step. They discard the most essential and
>appealing properties of sequential computation:
>understandability, predictability, and determinism. Threads,
>as a model of computation, are wildly nondeterministic, and
>the job of the programmer becomes one of pruning that
>nondeterminism. Although many research techniques improve
>the model by offering more effective pruning, I argue that
>this is approaching the problem backwards. Rather than
>pruning nondeterminism, we should build from essentially
>deterministic, composable components. Nondeterminism should
>be explicitly and judiciously introduced where needed,
>rather than removed where not needed. The consequences of
>this principle are profound. I argue for the development of
>concurrent coordination languages based on sound, composable
>formalisms. I believe that such languages will yield much
>more reliable, and more concurrent programs."



  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Michael Scharf]

Why Threads Are A Bad Idea:
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf

From the article:
  "Threads are a seemingly straightforward adaptation of the
  dominant sequential model of computation to concurrent
  systems. Languages require little or no syntactic changes to
  support threads, and operating systems and architectures
  have evolved to efficiently support them. Many technologists
  are pushing for increased use of multithreading in software
  in order to take advantage of the predicted increases in
  parallelism in computer architectures. In this paper, I
  argue that this is not a good idea. Although threads seem to
  be a small step from sequential computation, in fact, they
  represent a huge step. They discard the most essential and
  appealing properties of sequential computation:
  understandability, predictability, and determinism. Threads,
  as a model of computation, are wildly nondeterministic, and
  the job of the programmer becomes one of pruning that
  nondeterminism. Although many research techniques improve
  the model by offering more effective pruning, I argue that
  this is approaching the problem backwards. Rather than
  pruning nondeterminism, we should build from essentially
  deterministic, composable components. Nondeterminism should
  be explicitly and judiciously introduced where needed,
  rather than removed where not needed. The consequences of
  this principle are profound. I argue for the development of
  concurrent coordination languages based on sound, composable
  formalisms. I believe that such languages will yield much
  more reliable, and more concurrent programs."

Michael




Richard Klein wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
Not likely...


I've been meaning to ask ... When you say that multiple threads
are evil, do you mean "as opposed to multiple processes"?  Or
do you feel that multiprogramming in general is evil?
- Richard Klein





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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Trevor Talbot]

On 11/13/07, Joe Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you use the idiom whereby each thread solely takes its tasks
> from a thread-safe work queue, you can have a clear separation of
> responsibilities and minimal or preferably no shared-state between
> threads. You get concurrency as a side effect of this simple hybrid
> event-passing/thread scheme.

That model is one Windows NT has explicit support for.  Its "I/O
Completion Port" is essentially a message queue that worker threads
can wait on for tasks.  In cooperation with the scheduler, it tries to
keep exactly as many threads as there are CPU cores active at any
given time, such as by waking a new thread when a busy one blocks for
I/O.

In the context of sqlite, though, I don't see much point to sharing a
single connection across threads.  I'd prefer to just dedicate a
message-based thread to the job.

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Joe Wilson]

--- "D. Richard Hipp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Joe Wilson wrote:
> 
> > http://home.pacbell.net/ouster/threads.pdf
> 
> JO and I reach a similar conclusion but by different
> reasoning, I think.

I like this line:

  Should You Abandon Threads?
  * No: important for high-end servers (e.g. databases).

If you use the idiom whereby each thread solely takes its tasks 
from a thread-safe work queue, you can have a clear separation of 
responsibilities and minimal or preferably no shared-state between 
threads. You get concurrency as a side effect of this simple hybrid 
event-passing/thread scheme.

Thread madness lies in complex multi-layer mutexes and shared data.


  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[D. Richard Hipp]

On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Joe Wilson wrote:


http://home.pacbell.net/ouster/threads.pdf


JO and I reach a similar conclusion but by different
reasoning, I think.



--- Richard Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
Not likely...


I've been meaning to ask ... When you say that multiple threads
are evil, do you mean "as opposed to multiple processes"?  Or
do you feel that multiprogramming in general is evil?

- Richard Klein




   
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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[D. Richard Hipp]

On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:37 PM, Richard Klein wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
Not likely...


I've been meaning to ask ... When you say that multiple threads
are evil, do you mean "as opposed to multiple processes"?  Or
do you feel that multiprogramming in general is evil?


Threads are (usually) fine as long as each thread has its own
address space that the other threads cannot mess with.  In other
words, I  have no issues with separate processes provided that
separate processes really are needed.  For example, it is often
a good idea to run your GUI in a separate process from your
compute engine so that long computations don't free the display.


D. Richard Hipp
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Joe Wilson]

http://home.pacbell.net/ouster/threads.pdf

--- Richard Klein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
> > Not likely...
> 
> I've been meaning to ask ... When you say that multiple threads
> are evil, do you mean "as opposed to multiple processes"?  Or
> do you feel that multiprogramming in general is evil?
> 
> - Richard Klein



  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Richard Klein]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
Not likely...


I've been meaning to ask ... When you say that multiple threads
are evil, do you mean "as opposed to multiple processes"?  Or
do you feel that multiprogramming in general is evil?

- Richard Klein


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Joe Wilson]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joe Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You might mention the library is multi-thread safe in the Features 
> > section of http://www.sqlite.org/about.html
> 
> What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
> Not likely...

Good luck with that quest.

People are going to want to know it whether you want to encourage it
or not. 

How about mentioning it on the http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html page,
at least?

> > Do you have a page that describes all the SQLITE_OMIT_* ifdefs 
> > and compile options?
> > 
> 
> http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html  
> Likely it needs to be updated.

Is there a link to it from the Features section of the About page?
Maybe with a comment like "Highly customizable" or something.



  

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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[drh]

Joe Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You might mention the library is multi-thread safe in the Features 
> section of http://www.sqlite.org/about.html

What?  And encourage people to write multitheaded programs?
Not likely...

> 
> Do you have a page that describes all the SQLITE_OMIT_* ifdefs 
> and compile options?
> 

http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html  
Likely it needs to be updated.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Joe Wilson]

You might mention the library is multi-thread safe in the Features 
section of http://www.sqlite.org/about.html

Do you have a page that describes all the SQLITE_OMIT_* ifdefs 
and compile options?



  

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RE: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Samuel R. Neff]

I think the "about" text misses some of what, to me, are the most important
parts of SQLite

- in-process
- zero maintenance

Also as a .NET developer I would be put off by the "C-Library" reference.
SQLite works very well in many languages regardless of the fact that it's
written in C.

I would propose something along these lines..


SQLite is a high-efficiency, in-process, transactional database engine that
supports the majority of SQL92 syntax, stores data in a single a disk file,
and requires zero maintenance.


HTH,

Sam 


---
We're Hiring! Seeking a passionate developer to join our team building Flex
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contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:40 PM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

http://www.sqlite.org/


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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Roger Binns]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
> and bug reports. 

There is no search on the front page or even anywhere else on the site
that I can find.  You don't even have to go to the hassle of adding your
own - Google has a widget that is trivial to add.  As an example that is
how the Apache site deals with their searching.

 http://www.google.com/coop/cse/

Roger
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Re: [sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[Rick Langschultz]

This is a big improvement to the website. Keep up the great work on  
SQLite. Looking forward to 4.0

On Nov 13, 2007, at 7:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

   http://www.sqlite.org/

Even though the new look is "in place" you should
understand this as a work in progress, not a done
deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
help in the following ways:

 *  Suggestions for something better to put on
the home page.

 *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
the CSS to make it look better, then send me
your adjustments (or post them here) that would
be a *big* help.

 *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line -
something better than "The World's Most Widely
Used SQL Database".

 *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
bar in the upper right-hand corner.

Over the next couple of weeks we plan on adding
some additional pages to the site (mostly moving
over information currently in the wiki) and doing
additional reorganization and cleanup.  We also
plan to offer the documentation pages as a ZIP or
tarball download so that users can view them
offline.

The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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[sqlite] Request for help with the SQLite Website

[drh]

The new look for the SQLite website is now in place,
if you haven't already noticed:

http://www.sqlite.org/

Even though the new look is "in place" you should
understand this as a work in progress, not a done
deal.  I am still looking for suggestions, comments,
and bug reports.  I am particularly interested in
help in the following ways:

  *  Suggestions for something better to put on
 the home page.  

  *  Suggestions for better CSS for the CVSTrac
 pages.  Example:  http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/timeline
 If you can save off a copy of that page, adjust
 the CSS to make it look better, then send me
 your adjustments (or post them here) that would
 be a *big* help.

  *  Somebody please suggest a better tag line - 
 something better than "The World's Most Widely
 Used SQL Database".

  *  Suggest changes that will provide a search
 bar in the upper right-hand corner.

Over the next couple of weeks we plan on adding
some additional pages to the site (mostly moving
over information currently in the wiki) and doing
additional reorganization and cleanup.  We also 
plan to offer the documentation pages as a ZIP or
tarball download so that users can view them
offline.

The feedback from this mailing list has so far been
very helpful.  Please don't stop offering suggestions.

--
D. Richard Hipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



-
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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