Re: Cross-tubes was Libelous Rant
At 10:52 PM 4/1/04 -0600, you wrote: I know some don't like to use them because they are difficult to repair if a leak should occur but I was not aware there were other 'concerns' Pete H That's pretty much it. But they can be made as relatively bullet-proof as any other part of the boiler by giving a little thought to the material used, location, and installation. I think cross tubes and porky-pine heat sinks have a great potential for Ga1 which hasn't begun to be utilized yet and coupled with the advances in burners can make ferocious little steam generators. does the trouble lie with the varied expansion rates of the differant sized tubes? In small scale practice I'd say it usually has to do with heat working on too thin or poorly located tubes and/or poorly soldered joints. The reason I ask is because I have been looking at designs of vertical stationary boilers and was leaning towards one with L shaped water tubes. Quite a common arrangement. . . . . . . there is apparently more to it than just drill/reaming holes and brazing tubes into place? I would say one important consideration in that instance, in addition to using good boiler building technique, would be to use water tubes which are as thick-walled as you can find, certainly thicker than standard soft copper plumbing tubing. Regards, Harry
Brunel's Lunacy was Cross-tubes
At 11:14 AM 4/2/04 +0100, you wrote: Hi Harry Long time no see - maybe I will make it to your neck of the woods next time :-) Or me to yours, . . . . again. Is The Bridge still standing? :-) Regards, Harry
Cross-tubes
At 11:09 PM 4/2/04 +0800, you wrote: Hi All. - In the case of horizontal centre flue boilers - Jim describes the ways of reducing or eliminating cross-tube problems very well. I expand on those ideas to include increasing tube wall thickness and careful location with respect to the heat source. Properly done cross-tubes should be a win-win propositon. Another benefit that's forgotten is that cross-tubes increase the internal volumn, not by much of course, but some, and that's more than you would have without them. I could be making the mistake of assuming that people could use more water/steam space in their boilers. Regards, Harry
Re: Good Boiler Building Technique
At 10:41 AM 4/2/04 -0800, you wrote: I have never built a boiler. A scrap metal place nearby often has thick walled copper pipe the right diameter for a boiler. Gary, It doesn't need to be all that thick, in 2 diameter copper either a Type L (@ .070 wall) or Type M (.058) will be sufficient for any Ga1 application I could imgaine. Good design typically means such things as using proper materials, in sufficient thickness, correctly proportioning flues, and bushing all penetrations for instance. Good technique or execution would mean making joints and seams fit snugly, making bushings and tapped holes square and aligned, cleaning surfaces to be soldered, and using the right flux and solder, and insuring sound soldered joints, etc. It really isn't as clinical as I make it sound, except that I don't know any other way to describe it. Most of most useful, informative, and available books on the subject will be British, Model Boilers and Boilermaking by KN Harris, Locomotive and Marine Boilers (and variations) by Martin Evans, Model Locomotive Boilermaking by Alec Farmer, and older books by Henry Greenly and LBSC. The locomotive books by Kozo Hiraoka also contain marvelous illustrated treatises on boilermaking. Although small scale is a slightly different animal, and all the foregoing predominantly focus on larger scales, 3-1/2 ga and up, most of the basic principles are the same. In my experience though no one book contains everything you would benefit from knowing and certainly not all you'd need to know when working in small scale. Regards, Harry
Re: Good Boiler Building Technique
At 07:29 AM 4/5/04 -0400, you wrote: At least until Harry sits down and writes one! ;-) Terry Griner Terry, Can't say as I haven't thought about it but technical writing and illustration is much more time consuming than it looks and the publication costs vs return don't justify the time and effort, at least if you are going to do a really good job of it. Maybe that's why MAP/Argus, the largest publisher of model engineering and live steam books, have done only one new boiler book (Farmer, 1988) in the last 30± years. Regards, Harry
Re: ?
At 07:22 AM 4/15/04 -0700, you wrote: i think maybe everybody's over at the new steamup.com message board ;-) \dmc Not surprising. For those of us old enough to remember when the first local television station began broadcasting we sat for hours watching the test pattern, waiting for the first broadcast to begin. This of course would include Lord Geoff, who I hear did the same thing waiting for the first Marconi broadcast. BTW Geoff, I also read in the latest British Home Magazine that excluding London and environs, Henley is now officially the most expensive place in England to buy and own a house. It's probably time to sell that 15,000 acres of farmland you've been hanging onto. Regards, Harry
Re: ?
At 09:18 AM 4/15/04 -0600, you wrote: and I recall that the dogwoods and redbuds in Nashville were blossoming around this time of year, Only 48 hours ago we had feezing temperatures and 4 of snow in outlying areas (and I'm in an outlying area.) Today, bright sunshine and the mid-70's, and yes the dogwoods, redbuds, and early iris are in full bloom (as well as the buckhorn, chickweed, wild onions, dandelion, bedstraw, bittercress, plaintain, dock, etc, ad nauseum.) Regards, Harry
. . . and we walked the 8 miles to school barefoot . . . .
At 10:09 AM 4/15/04 -0700, you wrote: my father plowed the 15000 acres by hand-- He never sprung for the big Fowler rig? (or even a little Fowler rig?)
Re: ?
At 02:34 PM 4/15/04 -0700, you wrote: This sounds to me as though someone out there has Clark and a few other people in their Outlook Express address book. A virus got ahold of those names and addresses and then sent everyone in the address book spam, picking Clark's and others' names to forge in the from field. I've lately received dozens of bounces of emails not sent by me which indicates the somewhere someone pirated my address from just the situation Dave has described. Nothing from Clark yet though. :-) hw
Re: wicks
At 11:09 AM 4/17/04 -0700, you wrote: How wrong am I ??? Geoff. Geoff, On this count I agree. I was taught that all flame was oxidizing vapor, but on the vaporizing burner business I think you'll all find that's a very, very old idea. Long forgotten (almost) or at least superceded, so it seems new. The west coast guys might recognize the name of Vic Shattock (dec'd) of the GGLS who had a indoor 1/2 scale railway and his locos were run with vaporizing white gas burners. His grandson Ken occasionally tries to sell that burner design commercially (I think he posted it on this list once), with few takers I gather, if for no other reason than when was the last time you could find white gas anyway? Regards, Harry
Re: Hardniing Brass and copper
At 09:02 AM 4/22/04 -0700, you wrote: I am making a cab for locomotive, in the process of silver soldering the cab the metal ( brass and copper ) have lost there hardness . I am looking for information on how to re harden the metal . Thanks Paul Gamlin Paul, Sorry . . . but brass and copper will only work harden, that is, it will only regain some hardness when its worked, meaning bent, and I'm assuming you won't want to bend what you've done. My question would be why use silver solder when soft solder would have been more than adequate for this application. Regards, Harry
Re: Head lights on British engines
At 08:33 AM 5/14/04 -0700, you wrote: I am finishing up a English profile live steam tank engine and was going to put a light on it. looking at images Via Goggle it does not look like that is common practice . Is that the case ? Paul Paul, Not in the usual American sense, but they certainly did have marker lamps, say up to three on front, so you could equip your loco with powered marker lamps and not offend any sensibilities, most of them anyway. Regards, Harry Wade
Re: Still there???
Having been raised to believe that man shall not live by Ga1 bread alone I've been going like mad on my 7-1/2 ga TICH. Should anyone be interested progress can be monitored at http://community.webshots.com/user/gwrdriver One of these days before long I will need the services of a brass/bronze foundry that can pour lost foam patterns. The lost foam process uses a poly-urethane foam (blue-board) pattern which is lost (burnt up) during the pour. If anyone knows of such a foundry in your area I would appreciate contact information. Regards, Harry
Re: lost foam casting (was Still there?)
At 09:55 AM 5/2/04 -0600, you wrote: Ask and you may find that everyone will do it. -vance- Vance, I think most automotive castings are done this way now, certainly engines, manifolds, and such, and apparently it's a technique which makes moulding for the home foundryman much easier as there are no flasks, matchplates, coring, mulling, ramming up, etc, to be fooled with. Just pack it in sand, poke vents in it, and pour away. But I don't intend to become a home foundryman, and I did call our local bronze foundry, and even with almost 40 years in the casting business he'd never even heard of lost foam! That's why I have to find a source elsewhere. Regards, Harry
Re: lost foam casting (was Still there?)
At 06:30 PM 5/2/04 -0600, you wrote: Right, Harry, I understand. But just because he hasn't heard of it doesn't mean it couldn't be done.I know it can be done because my caster has done it. I would call the fellow back Vance, You'll have to accept for the moment that I thoroughly investigated this man's ability and willingness to do what I need done and have determined that he CANNOT do the job I need done and is unwilling to attempt it. When presented with a foam pattern he said he would remake the pattern in wood, make a matching conventional core box, and sand cast it conventionally. At that point I saw no point in continuing the conversation. He did recommend and alloy which was neither coppery red (which I didn't want) nor a pee-yellow (which I SURE don't want), but of course I promptly mislaid my note where I wrote down the alloy. You invest it, burn it out and cast it just like any other meltable pattern. Partly so. As you know, the basic process of investment casting preparation creates a master and mold which is reusable and repeatable. Unless you have enough demand to warrant a female blowmold, into which urethane beads are expanded, lost foam does not. It's one whittled pattern at a time, which makes it viable for live steam work only if you have a one-off, or a number of very simple (ie quickly carved) patterns. That's a substatial potential difference in the labor required to produce multiple parts. If I want a backup casting, or the first pour is bad, I'll have to whittle another pattern from scratch. Regards, Harry
Re: lost foam casting (was Still there?)
At 09:50 PM 5/2/04 -0500, you wrote: Here is my Casting froup on Yahoo http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/castinghobby There are several of us that are into lost foam casting Clint Thanks, maybe someone on that group would consider taking on a little job. Regards, Harry
Re: wire for threading 0-80
At 09:59 AM 5/21/04 -0600, you wrote: Does anyone know what size brass rod/wire one would use for threading to 0-80? My initial thought of 1/16, Kevin, You're pretty close. The standard diameter for 0-80 is .060, or 1/16 for all intents and purposes. The 0 is a U.S. machine screw size, not wire size. I have seen a number of thread charts which show #1 as .0625, which is incorrect and wouldn't make much sense anyway. #1 is .073. Regards, Harry
Re: wire for threading 0-80
Kevin, Sorry I didn't get to you sooner with this message: .055 wire . . . It's pretty hard stuff, but shouldn't be harder than the die. Depends. If it's piano or music or spring wire, and my bet is that it is, it's very hard and you could ruin your carbon steel die and I wouldn't subject my HSS die to it either. Generally any quick cooling, like quenching, will re-hardened a hardenable carbon steel. For these the slower the cooling the better. And for anyone needing to anneal small steel parts . . . . consider silica sand. To heat a small, thin, or delicate part which needs to be evenly heated, and/or heated to exactly a certain color (temp), lay it in a bed of common sand in a shallow metal container and heat it from the bottom. This will heat it slowly and evenly and you can stop the heat at just the right moment. An easy way to slowly cool a small steel item after annealing is to place it (or leave it) in a bed of sand and after it's well soaked with heat cover it with the heated sand and leave it all to cool. It's not a time temp controlled heat treat oven but it has successfully heat treated many a small bit. Regards, Harry
Re: wire for threading 0-80 (Now annealing tempering)
At 05:44 PM 5/24/04 -0400, you wrote: To blue small screws, . . . a can filled with old drain oil from the car. That's the way I do it. I tip 'em into the oil, red hot. It kind of stinks for a bit but the blue is a beautiful blue-black. Regards, Harry
Re: wire for threading 0-80 (Now annealing tempering)
At 05:53 PM 5/24/04 -0500, you wrote: Would this work for making side-rods with that loverly patina seen on the full size beasts? They are a medium brown polished look from years of being annealed annually for stress relief. It could. The hot-dip-in-oil process leaves a coating of dead black carburized oil on the surface, but it can be removed and when removed does leave a discoloration, depending upon the steel used. By the way, the dirtier and grungier the oil the better for blue-blacking, but the annealed look might be had using less grungy or new oil. Unfortunately you can't entirely ignore the possibility that warpage might be a problem for slender parts like rods. Regards, Harry
Re: wire for threading 0-80 (Now annealing tempering)
At 12:08 AM 5/25/04 -0500, you wrote: Warpage indeed... I'll end up with pretzels for main-rods for sure! Trot, the twisted, fox... I simply don't see the problem . . . . . you have a big ball pein hammer . . . you have a flat rock . . . .? Regards, Harry
Very Sad News
You all will hear soon enough I think but sadly Arthur Walker passed away yesterday. Regards, Harry
threading 0-80 (Now annealing tempering)
At 05:52 PM 5/25/04 +0200, you wrote: you don't see any problems with that big ball pein hammer? According to a few of the mechanics who've worked on my cars it's a precision instrument. Regards, Harry
Re: rivets
At 07:29 PM 5/25/04 -0700, you wrote: OK. where did I get them ? I've got some rivets with a .047 shank and a .089 head. Can't remember where I got them. Would like some rivets with a body of .038 or so and a head of .070 or so. Anybody know where I can get them ? Thanks, royce in SB Royce, Is it possible that these are escutcheon pins rather than rivets? In any case try a place called Jay-Cee (or J-C) Rivets in MI, a Google search will take you to their site. Regards, Harry
Re: rivets
At 09:02 PM 5/26/04 -0700, you wrote: Hi Harry. thanks for the lead. I DID go to their website. And they DO have a reasonable minimum order ($25) as opposed to Atco, who want $75 minimum. - Royce Royce, $25 is still a prohibitive minimum for me, I wouldn't use $25 worth of rivets in a lifetime. I recently contacted J-C about 1/8 iron rivets (actually iron, not steel) and their minumum count unit of 100pcs, of which I would use maybe 50, would cost $25. When pressed it turned out they didn't have iron rivets anyway, but otherwise they have just about everything. Regards, Harry
Re: rivets
At 08:44 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote: Try Grant Line at; http://www.enginetender.com/300m.htm Tom, Thanks, this info could come in handy. Did you send this to Royce also? He was the one who posed the original question. Regards, Harry
Re: rivets
At 08:44 AM 5/28/04 -0400, I wrote: Tom, Thanks, this info could come in handy. Did you send this to Royce also? He was the one who posed the original question. Never mind . . . I see it went to the list. Regards, Harry
Re: Wicks
At 06:01 PM 6/11/04 +0100, you wrote: Who is Dicky Boast? What shop? I've never had any dealings with him, [snip] - Mike I've tried. I've ordered materials, large'ish quantities of tube specifically, and asked for pricing on quantities of boilers, both ready-made and materials kits, for Dee and Project, all of which he advertises, or did once. No beneficial response. By beneficial I mean something beyond I'll be back in touch. My order for 10 meters of boiler tubing in sizes unavailable in the U.S. remains unfilled after over two years and the need I once had for it has now passed. I am assured Dickie is basically a good sort, trying to make ends met as a Ga1 supplier (and we all know how difficult that can be), but is a bit disorganized and spread thin. Regards, Harry
Re: Imported steam - can the US compete?
At 05:05 PM 6/12/04 -0400, you wrote: Yes, I did have the traction engine explosion in mind- I guess I was making the tenuous assumption that if the late owner of the TE was unconcerned enough about litigation I would guess that the whole lot of them were unconcerned about anything except running their engines. It's my observation, and I would suspect it here, that the old boy thing is very much alive and well in various levels of live steam, and in many similar pursuits. What happens, understandably, is nobody wants to be the one to tell Bubba (who may have hauled a trailer 600 miles) he can't fire up his engine, so nobody tells him and they all look the other way. I once asked the boiler inspector of my own club, which prides itself in seeing 30-60 locomotives appear at bi-annual meets, year in year out, When was the last time you refused a visiting engineer permission to steam up because of an expired certificate, no certificate, failure of a test, or refusal to be tested? The answer: Never, . . . we let them run as a courtesy. Certainly there were metalurgical and structural problems, and catastrophies are always the result of a series of co-dependent conditons and events, but in addition to that my guess is a bunch of them good old boys up there in Medina were looking the other way, as a courtesy you understand. Regards, Harry
Re: Steam in US and England
At 07:18 PM 6/13/04 -0700, you wrote: It seems another variable is the higher frequency of garage machinists in England than the US. Last time I checked they seemed to be up around 130Mhz. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Regards, Harry
Re: Steam in US and England
At 01:42 PM 6/14/04 EDT, you wrote: When I moved here I noted a total lack of the same variety of kits in any scale. - Pete Pete, I find this to be odd. I began scale model railroading (as opposed to tinplate) in the mid-1950's and never in my memory has there been a wider or deeper range of bits kits of all descriptions for all scales available to the modeler than today. So many in fact that I do wonder how any of the smaller mfgs or suppliers do enough volume to remain in business, garden shed industry or not. Regards, Harry
Miniature funnels
This may or may not be of any interest to anyone but I thought I'd pass it along anyway. If you have a mall/chain store called Luxury Linens near you, in their kitchenwares area they have a small display of items called Mini-Gadgets, which are essentially miniature kitchen utensiles, and item #96508 is a nested pair of miniature nylon funnels the right size for various Ga1 uses. Price is $1.99/pair. Neither is more than about 1-1/4 diameter at the big end and have very small delivery ends. Regards, Harry
Re: Steam Magazines
At 09:51 AM 6/17/04 -0400, you wrote: Ive seen some discussion from this group on G1MRA; I was wondering what other members think of these publications. - Ray Ray, The Newsletter Journal (NLJ) of the Gauge One Model Railway Association (G1MRA). This is published quarterly in England by the G1MRA and as should be expected is primarily (I hesitate to say exclusively) a British mainline railway oriented magazine and little if any U.S. prototype subject matter has or is likely to appear. If British mainline modeling, electric or steam, is your cup of tea, and it is mine, then it is the best publication for the money currently being printed. A subscription comes with G1MRA membership. A year or so ago the overall appearance, quality of content, and substance of the NLJ took a substantial leap (IMHO) after the editorship was assumed by Arthur Walker (in the UK) but sadly Arthur passed away recently and it remains to be seen where it will go from here. Hopefully the standard that Arthur set will be maintained and will be improved upon yet again but as with any magazine they can only publish what they are sent. My personal assessment is that in addition to simpler subjects and projects, to its great credit the NLJ tends not to be timid about publishing complex technical projects, which require the reader to expand his/her reach, to think, to have and use tools, specifically machine tools, and to adhere fairly closely to standards of scale and proportion. It is also the publication of a closed membership group so occasionally it does have indside references to individuals and events, past and present, which may be unknown to some readers. But sometimes, while some of the more easily ruffled hens peck at each other, espousing their respective, sometimes absolute positions on this subject or that, which they are also not timid about publishing, a gem of information or an education can be found. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville TN
Re: Steam Magazines
At 12:12 PM 6/17/04 -0400, you wrote: Just to clarify Harry's statement, not being sure what he meant by closed, anyone can join at any time. Closed means you must join and be a member of the group to receive the publication. Joining and remaining a member isn't all that difficult, they let pretty much anyone with the price of a ticket in, including me. Regards, Harry
BRONZE - BRASS
At 03:33 PM 6/22/04 -0400, you wrote: Is there an easy way to tell bronze from brass? - Casey Casey, No, except with a little familiarity with metal color, oxide color, and turning characteristics you can be reasonably certain which you have. Many (but not all) brasses have a yellow caste and bronzes are more reddish or brownwish, but this isn't absolute. Red brass for instance has a dark reddish caste like some bronzes but is classified as a pouring brass. Many cast plumbing valve bodies are red brass but are assumed to be bronze. I have some phosphor bronze (C510) which has a distinctly yellow caste but it's documented material so I know what it is. If I didn't know its alloy and origin I would have called it a brass at first glance, but then when I turned it I'd see that it was not a brass. Brass comes off in tiny chips while bronze comes off in much larger chips and occasionally a curl. I have some other phosphor bronze (also C510) from a different source and it's almost a copper-red. If I didn't know where it came from and what it was I would assume it was pure copper (C110) but it machines nothing like copper or brass which would tell me that is it NOT one of those. Many continous-cast bearing bronzes (SAE 660), although they can be on the yellowish side, usually have a darkish flow pattern visible on the skin from the casting process which makes them relatively easy to idenify as bronze but there are a number of alloys in the continuous-cast group. I've seen chemical tests kits which can supposedly tell you the difference between alloys of the same family. The prices for a sample kit begin at around $450.00! I don't know of a common household chemical process for determining the difference. Regards, Harry
Re: Zamak - was Boiler water
At 09:31 AM 6/23/04 EDT, you wrote: I also have a powerboat here on the Chesapeake Bay, and we just replaced the zincs, which I believe are Zamak castings. They are sacrificial anodes Pete When a metal of high nobility is coupled with a metal of low nobility in an electrlytic solution, especially seawater (but plain water will do), a flow of electrical current will flow. Zinc is one of the least noble metals and will create a relatively strong galvanic action with almost all others and erosion of the least noble metal will occcur. This is why brass (and zamak) isn't a good material for boilers. I've never heard of anyone using sacrifical annodes in a copper model boiler, there would be no compelling reason to do that, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. In model steel boilers on the other hand many people believe there is a benefit to sacrificial annodes, but then some don't. I can't recall ever seeing an article where they were shown conclusively to be necessary, but a few people believe in them and as far as I know installing one doesn't hurt. The only problem could be that the zinc molecules don't just disappear, they must go somewhere else within the system, usualy to the most noble metal present, and will create deposits of metal in places where they're not wanted. Regards, Harry
Re: What grade material to use?
At 08:14 AM 7/8/04 -0500, you wrote: What grade of steel do you use to build the larger objects of your steamers? Pete, I use what sheet metal shops call black iron (at least here in the South.) This is hot rolled mild steel plate (or sheet) and it has a dark gray oxide skin on it which is resists rust but is also kind of hard and also resists scriber points. In any case it is strong, dimensionally stable, drills, taps, and machines well. It's very cheap and any sheet metal shop will have it and will probably give you enough cut off material to do several locomotive frames. However it does NOT solder well (soft solder or silver solder) because the oxide skin inhibits that, but if you scrub the skin off it solders like any other mild steel. Am I correct to assume that it is not so much a strength issue but more of a machinability and/or cost of material? - PeteH Yes, and I would add one more attribute to that, . . . that it be conveniently available in a small quantity. Regards, Harry
Re: What grade material to use?
At 02:23 AM 7/9/04 -0700, you wrote: Hi Group, Regarding the warpage of cold rolled steels... Jon This is as accurate a description and examples of the problems with CRS as I have heard lately. Obviously it has it place and uses, otherwise they wouldn't make the stuff, but one has to know how to play its game. I have been told I was dreaming, but in reading Model Engineer many years ago I saw a number of specific references to the use of BMS. These days BMS means Bright Mild Steel, our equivalent to CRS, but then it meant Blue Mild Steel. B(blue)MS was a bright mild steel which had been fully annealed, thus reducing or eliminating the problems found in CRS but which had the same clean surface finish and crisp edges. Like I said, I was told I had dreamt that as no such thing was available but I do remember specific references to it. The closest thing to that we have here in the U.S. might be ground mild flat stock, which is not the same as high carbon ground flat stock (guage plate). This is fully annealed mild steel sheet which has been surface ground two sides. Regards, Harry
What grade material to use?
At 10:44 PM 7/8/04 +0200, you wrote: Hi Harry, I'm surprised to see that you still get mild steels with the mill scale still on it. - Bert Bert, Yes, it's one of the basic materials in the U.S. sheet metal industry although I now see steel without scale occasionally laying behind the shears. I didn't ask but it may be the pickled stock that Gordon mentions. I got 1mm (1/16th approx.) mild steel passenger car sides and parts cut perfectly with no scale to clean for a couple of 's (beer money) That would not happen here, unless you were not already close chums. I've had any number of frames laser cut from hot rollled mild steel, from Ga1 to 7-1/2ga, and the skin is of no consequence (and it cost a great deal more than beer money :-). Regards, Harry
RE: What grade material to use?
At 09:39 AM 7/9/04 -0400, you wrote: I had been wondering about annealing the CRS. Isn't simply a case of heating it to like 400 degrees F - Terry Griner Terry, I can't recall the temperature but my understanding is that steel must be taken beyond to its critical temperature, at which point it loses its magnetic attraction, and soaked for a while and then brought down slowly. I had a couple of blocks of 1 CRS plate annealed at the local trade school and their oven has a 24 hour cycle and it still moved a little after cutting into it. In any case I think we are talking about red heat so it's a bit beyond the capabilities of the household oven. Now if you have a friend with a pottery kiln . . . . . . Regards, Harry
Accucraft information
Can anyone help me with information on the Accucraft C-21 and Shay? I would like to know the boiler water volumes and center flue ID's one these engines. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville Tennessee
Re: Stephenson Valve Gear
At 11:57 AM 8/31/04 -0400, you wrote: [snip a true Stephenson's Link Motion ALWAYS has two eccentrics, So, to make it short, if there is only one eccentric, it isn't Stephenson's [snip] So unless you make an exhaustive study of valve gears, some can be a bit difficult to identify. Sincerely Keith Taylor Keith, Hah! Great minds (etc, etc) . . . I was just about to post this when yours came in: Without laborious study of the ancient texts (which I ain't about to do anytime soon) I can't say whether you are close or correct but IMLHO a single eccentric does not a Stephenson's gear make. I'd say that permutes it into something else but what I don't know. Regards, Harry
Re: Stephenson Valve Gear
At 08:46 PM 8/31/04 -0700, you wrote: I consulted a couple of ancient, dusty, and dog-earred tomes, Harry, both of them had good diagrams but lacked sufficient explanatory text Steve, I usually find the best old ones have such complex theories, explanations, and diagrams as to be overwhelmingly tedious. I suppose you could say that an authority could simply be someone who has been able to endure the tedium until they at last actually understand the subject. Regards, Harry
Stephenson Valve Gear
At 11:17 PM 9/1/04 +0200, you wrote: This is not quite correct. the original Stephenson valve gear consisted of a loose eccentric and a driving collar and driving pin. Bert, I'm aware of that but whatever the actual origin we still call it by the name Stephenson and everyone understands which one is meant. Regards, Harry
Re: priming
At 09:36 AM 9/18/04 -0600, you wrote: When I moved into my old house back east, the previous owner had left a box in the garage that at one time was a case of Self-etching primer I use a self-etching primer sold by Sherwin-Williams in their professional automotive stores, the product is #GBP-988 Self-Etch Automotive Primer. It comes in a 12oz aerosol can and costs roughly $8. It is very stinky and carries any numer of dire health and flammability warnings on it's label, meaning of course that it is very good stuff! I believe the etchant is phosphoric acid, the same thing Coca-Cola puts in their drinks, . . . to etch your teeth and stomach lining, but that's another story. In any case a very thin coat does the job on practically any metal. Although it's not bullet-proof, and it is primarily intended for use on steel, it does do a very good job of providing a tenacious base coat on just about any metal. Regards, Harry
Re: priming
At 10:10 PM 9/18/04 -0600, you wrote: I just picked up a sandblaster at a yard sale, so I'm eager to try that -vance- Vance, I've had a small cannister (aka crappy) sandblaster for years and not long ago acquired a large cabinet unit, and I finally got some real blasting abrasive (vs Home Depot play sand) and it is superior to common sand. Regards, Harry
Re: priming
At 03:43 PM 9/19/04 -0700, you wrote: So what pressure would you recommend for normal airbrushing ? (I have a real compressor - up to 20cfm at 175psi) That's more than enough. I have Thayer-Chandlers and they do just fine on 15psi or less and at fractional cfm. A much more important aspect of airbrushing is to have filtered air, eleiminate as much moisture and dirt in the supply as possible. Regards, Harry
Insulation
I'd like to find some 1/16± ceramic cloth insulation, about the same stuff that Aster supplies with their kits. Does anyone know of a source for that or a similar material? I need about one sq ft but would want to buy more for future use. Regards, Harry
Fire Brick
At 09:39 AM 10/1/04 -0400, you wrote: while on the subject of ceramics, I have been trying to find a meaterial What material can I get (in the US) for this? ron ginger Ron, The material being called firebrick is a misnomer as that refers to a hard fired clay brick as used by masons for fireplace construction. This is a light weight refractory in brick form and is used for furnace and firebox linings. It's porous and is made in half a dozen different temperature grades from about 1600F to 3200F which conveniently correspond directly to its porosity. I have found that the #K-28 (2800F) grade, in the list below, has just the right porosity to make it a replacement for asbestos wicks in drip-fed meths burners or for gas emitters. Once up to temperature, with either fuel, the refractory will become incandescent and radiant. There is a range of light weight refractory brick products made by Thermal Ceramics Inc. which should be available at refractory-foundry-boiler-heating suppliers. Their brick products (and numbers) are as follows: # Density Sevice Temp K-2029 lb/F³2000° K-2331 lb/F³2300 K-2542 lb/F³2500 K-2648 lb/F³2600 K-2851 lb/F³2800 K-3051 lb/F³2900 K-3000 58 lb/F³3350 (There was a K-24 but it's no longer made.) This material is a porous solid, the fired clay equivalent of sintered metal, and the #K-28 seems to me to be just about the right density (porosity) for Ga1 burner use. It can be easily cut with a bare hacksaw blade, it's sandable, carvable, but it's also quite brittle and somewhat fragile. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville Tennessee
Re: Fire Brick
At 09:59 AM 10/2/04 -0400, you wrote: Thaks Harry for the detailed answer, and Terry for the offer to send a brick. I will first try to find some locally, it seems crazy to be mailing bricks :-) In their infinite wisdom, and being a part of a legislated effort to encourage development and settlement (also usually an infinitely wise undertaking), the US Postal Service once upon a time (and may still) maintained a program of subsidized postage to Alaska. What some bright lad discovered was that it was cheaper to MAIL construction material to Alaska than to truck it there so that's what they did . . . . they mailed hundreds of tons of bricks to Alaska. Strewth. Regards, Harry
Re: Walsall Model Industries
At 09:26 AM 10/6/04 +0800, you wrote: Does anybody know if there is an email contact for Walsall Model Industries? Christopher Lee As far as I know there is not. What would you like to know? Regards, Harry Wade Nashville Tennessee
Re: Walsall Model Industries
At 12:41 PM 10/6/04 +0800, you wrote: I wanted to find out what they offered. I am planning on converting a Roundhouse Lady Anne kit into an American style and wanted to see if it was easy to get spoked wheels. Chris, The first thing to know about Walsall wheels is that very few of them are cast with counterweights, these are to be applied by the buyer. One must assume they do it this way so as to make their wheels applicable to more than one loco but it is a real bother for us builders. If you will give me the particulars, finished wheel diameter and number of spokes, and counterweight style, I'll check my catalogue and see what they've got. If you are going to keep the drivers inside the frames the counterweights style isn't a concern. Regards, Harry
Re: Aster Berkshire prototype
At 12:55 PM 10/27/04 -0400, you wrote: Did anyone beside me notice that the steam gauge is getting it's feed from the turret? - Keith Keith, I don't see that as worth worrying about, especially when you're doing well to get within 5psi of true reading with the typical miniature steam gauge anyway. Regards, Harry
Re: Insulation
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about boiler insulation, I have found a source for ceramic paper material in 1/16 thickness. Regards, Harry
Re: threads
At 11:16 AM 11/27/04 -0800, you wrote: I ran across a thread that has puzzled me a bit. It's on a Cole's water gauge. It appears to be a 7/32 - 32 thread. But the thread that I made doesn't seem to fit perfectly. Royce, Here is one possibility, depending upon the source of your taps and dies. 7/32-32 is a standard (although uncommon) Model Engineer (aka ME) thread. The ME threads are Imperial size 32 and 40 tpi threads developed for use in model engineering projects (duh!) Although the industry is now shifting to Metric, until recently most British model steam fittings had ME threads. However, the British 32 40 thread ME system is a 55° thread angle rather than the U.S. standard 60°, and British ME threads also have radiused crest and root as opposed to angled crest and root of U.S. threads. The upshot of all this is that the two systems don't mix very well and threads made with U.S.-made taps and dies will foul at the crests or root with a British-made ME thread after 2 or so thread revolutions. The solution is to run a tap or die (whichever is applicable) over the foreign thread (whichever one you deem to be foreign) and create clearance for the crests roots. Then maybe not . . . . . Regards, Harry
Vinegar water
At 03:26 PM 12/31/04 -0800, you wrote: I should fill a few of my beer barrels with rain water, filter it and sell it in 5 gallon jugs at a high profit. - Geoff Geoff, Don't laugh . . . I was on the Hornby Railways site just now (don't ask why) and under live steam supplies they offer Live steam water at £4.99 per Liter. Yes, you read correctly . . . 4.99UKP!! That's H2O at about $9.68 per liter. But don't worry. . . . they won't sell to just anyone . . . as is stated in the ad . . . Live Steam [water] is only suitable for adult collectors, not for children under 14 years old. Regards, Harry
Re: posts and frost heave
At 07:58 PM 1/4/05 -0500, you wrote: I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, I plan on digging post holes about a foot and a half deep, - Joe Joe, MY frostline is 18 so yours will be more, as much as 36. Your local building codes office will be able to tell what the local minimum recommended building frostline is. Double-check any answer you get from talking to a contractor, or your brother-in-law, because that might be an Aw that ought'a be enough figure and of course they won't be around if the posts pop out of the ground. I'm not saying you absolutely must drill to Oz with this but you KNOW that if my building frostline is at 18 then yours should be somewhat deeper than that. Harry Wade Nashville TN
Fair play was Mother Nature uses kinetics
At 01:37 PM 1/11/05 +1030, you wrote: Thank you, Tony Cotton G1MRA Aust membership officer South Australia Hey Tony, Is the membership ticket going up down there too? Regards, Harry Wade Nashville Tennessee
Re: Off Topic
At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry
Re: Off Topic
At 06:16 AM 2/10/05 -0800, you wrote: So what does displacement mean ? I'm guessing that it must get between water molecules and whatever the water is in contact with. Royce, That's close enough. So how does it do this? I have no clue. Regards, Harry
Re: Lubricator
At 05:49 PM 2/13/05 -0500, you wrote: puncture the can. It can then be safely put in with the rest of the garbage. . . . . or maybe dropped off at a recycling center in the steel alum bin. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 06:57 PM 2/13/05 -0800, you wrote: What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn Jim, The preferred material is phosphor bronze, and while there are a number of phosphor bronzes one of the most commonly stocked ones has an alloy designation of C-510. A workable alternative is 660 bronze which is a continuous cast bearing bronze usually sold in 13 sticks at any good bearing supply house or industrial supply. Even though it has a very small % of lead I use it for larger (5/8+OD) bushings and it works just fine. Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread form possible for as long as possible. Fine threads in a malleable material such as copper are easily damaged or stretched . . . in other words they deteriorate much faster. The reason that phosphor bronze is preferred is that it cuts and holds threads like mild steel yet is completely compatible with copper and silver solders as easily as copper. Regards, Harry
Re: Hex Bronze?
At 11:21 AM 2/14/05 -0600, you wrote: Rolling in on the heels of the brass vs. bronze question Does anyone have a readily available source for HEX bronze? - Mike Eorgoff Mike, That's going to be a real toughie, especially if you want smaller than 1/2 hex in a small quantity. I couldn't find a ready source on the www but Chronos (in the UK) has some around .250 and .325. Depending upon the quantity you need it may be cheaper and quicker to mill it from a round bar. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 11:30 PM 2/15/05 -0500, you wrote: my opinion on using copper as bushings is based on the following: #1 LBSC in his book about building TICH (page 156) recommends as bushing material copper with The next best thing is bronze. Henner, That was written ca. 1951 and things have changed in 50+ years. I have a boiler from one of the most popular LBSC locos, designed ca. 1946, which uses no bushings for fittings and today of course this would never fly. #2 The Tich boiler kit we are currently building for my friend David's garratt was supplied by Reeves with material for copper bushings. Having been one of the worlds principle suppliers for all these years and one assumes up to date, I would be very surprised if Reeves supplied copper but they may very well have. In either case some phos bronze appears pinkish-red and very similar to copper but certainly doesn't machine like copper. You'll be able to tell the difference when you begin machining, the phos-bronze is very hard and tends to heat up quickly. Regards, Harry
Boiler commentary
Since we're in a lull in the action, I've had some concerns about some things I've lately seen in print on boilers, specifically testing pressures, and my concern is that very misleading messages are being sent by this and those who don't know better will take this to be good practice, or worse yet required practice, and begin spreading misinformation, possibly causing someone else who doesn't know better and follows the misinformation to damage an otherwise perfectly good boiler. What has caused my concern is the recent article in SitG wherein it is stated that Torry Krutzke's Pikes Peak Loco K-loco retrofit boilers are hydro-tested to 220psi, with fittings in place no less, and along the same lines that Accucraft supposedly tests Ruby boilers to 160psi. It almost seems to me that in Ga1 live steam these days there are a few things, and a few people, who subscribe to the If a little is good then a lot more is a lot better school of thought. This is unecessary, and mis-guided. This should not be taken as a criticism of Pikes Peak or Accucraft, they are entitled to test to whatever pressures they see fit, and they may very well have good reason for doing what they do, although I can't think of a single one. The reason for my comments is to counteract any tendency there might be in the wake of this for people in Ga1 live steam to begin saying that hydro-testing to a high multiple (250% to 400%) of WP (working pressure) is now in some way a requirement or a good thing. It is not and should not be. The universally accepted, and in some cases regulated, test pressures for miniature copper boilers are 2 X WP (200%) for the initial (new) test and 1.5 X WP (150%) for all subsequent tests. Thus for a boiler intended to operate at a nominal 40psi, the new (1st time) test pressure should be done at 80psi and subsequent tests should be done to 60psi. These are neither minimum nor maximum pressures but are target pressures, but in any case there is no compelling reason to take test pressure substantially beyond this, certainly not to 300% or 400%. The other thing that I see, in ALL gauges of live steam, is the practice of hydro testing a boiler with the fittings in place. A hydro test is not intended to test fittings nor are fittings intended to withstand hydro-test pressures. One does a hydro test to determine the soundness of the boiler structural envelope and one weep or leak at a fitting renders any hydro test of the shell inconclusive, at least for the purpose of a hydro test in the first place. I know that this won't prevent people from hydro-testing with the fittings in place, because I know how much extra work is involved in stripping a boiler down and plugging the holes with solid threaded plugs for a test, but the record should show, and the general Ga1 population should know, what the correct procedure is in case they decide to use it. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville Tennessee
RE: Boiler commentary
At 12:09 PM 3/14/05 -0600, you wrote: 1) Users may have a tendency to raise the pressure setting on their pressure relief valves above what the factory intends. A bad habit to get into, but even so this cannot justify a test standard of 300% of WP. 2) Pressure gauges are not normally checked for accuracy in the US. So let's say a guage is out by 25% under-pressure, which in my experience would be an extreme case, producing a PSIG (gauge reading) of 40psi when in fact the actual pressure is 50psi . . . . for that we need to test to 160psi, 300%+ of actual WP? 3. CYA and government regulations. What regulations Accucraft or any other mfg must comply with, or chooses to comply with, are not my concern and are not the subject of my post. My concern is that that many rank file Ga1 live steamers in the U.S., in particular newcomers to live steam, will see those test figures and get the notion that these are, or should be, recommended or standard practice when in fact they are just as likely to be harmful. Regards, Harry
Re: Faux firebox
At 01:39 PM 3/25/05 -0700, you wrote: (List readers, sorry this will get stripped off the note. If you're dying to see the photo, I'll be glad to send it to you if you contact me off-list.) regards, Vance, The photo indeed DID make it through, at least through to me. Regards, Harry
