Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
One of the things that should be investigated in conjunction with higher order Ambisonics material would be to "fade down" the higher order components as the frequency drops, thus spreading the bass over more speakers, reducing the strain on the individual speakers whilst maintaining the spectral balance - hey, wasn't that Richard Lee's Powered Integrated Sub concept from several years ago?? Doesn't help with first order materiel but Dave On 15 October 2015 at 21:07, Steven Boardman wrote: > I did a test with the genelec 6010s I have. > The bass distorts way before before any high frequency problems occur, and > woofer distortion happens before any protection circuit cuts in.. When the > crossover is made higher, more level can be achieved at those frequencies, > with less I'll effects. (I didn't push to far as I still need them.:) > The program material used, was mastered music tracks of various genres. > Obviously in a mixing situation high frequency overload could be different. > Subs are a must. The more you have, the more even the response around the > room? > > Steve. > On 15 Oct 2015 19:18, "Fons Adriaensen" wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:14:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote: > > > > > Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at > > least, > > > if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. > > > > I can only confirm this. The last few months I've been using > > a room equipped with 36 small Genelecs. > > Without a quite steep highpass or xover to subs it's fairly > > easy to drive them into producing a very dirty sound even at > > moderate levels. You *do* need subs with those, even if you > > don't want 'club sound'. > > > > Ciao, > > > > -- > > FA > > > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/2d238cb8/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/6f3f3be4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 10:07 PM, Steven Boardman wrote: Subs are a must. The more you have, the more even the response around the room? Yes, and the better your LF localisation. Ideally, we'd want to do a separate decode for the subs, not just simple bass management (although the latter is better than nothing, of course). -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
I did a test with the genelec 6010s I have. The bass distorts way before before any high frequency problems occur, and woofer distortion happens before any protection circuit cuts in.. When the crossover is made higher, more level can be achieved at those frequencies, with less I'll effects. (I didn't push to far as I still need them.:) The program material used, was mastered music tracks of various genres. Obviously in a mixing situation high frequency overload could be different. Subs are a must. The more you have, the more even the response around the room? Steve. On 15 Oct 2015 19:18, "Fons Adriaensen" wrote: > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:14:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote: > > > Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at > least, > > if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. > > I can only confirm this. The last few months I've been using > a room equipped with 36 small Genelecs. > Without a quite steep highpass or xover to subs it's fairly > easy to drive them into producing a very dirty sound even at > moderate levels. You *do* need subs with those, even if you > don't want 'club sound'. > > Ciao, > > -- > FA > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/2d238cb8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 03:59:46PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > We've seen all those outlandish claims of magical waveguides that > are just fractions of the wavelength in diameter and yet shape the > sound so wonderfully that a 20Hz beam will travel all the way to the > moon (using the revolutionary VacuProof™ technology that will > finally bring cinema-friendly space battles). The problem is, this > waveshaping is not physically possible. Yes, it's a simple as that - not physically possible. If you think in ambisonic (spherical harmonic) terms it's easy to see why. Orders zero and one correspond to physical quantities, pressure and velocity, so these can be generated directly at any point. Higher order SH can't. Which means that you can have cardioid subs, or even supercardioid ones, but anything expected to create more directional beams will need to be of a size comparable to wavelenght. Can be (and is) done for open-air PA systems using very big arrays. But not in any normal room, there simply isn't the space to do it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:14:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote: > Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at least, > if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. I can only confirm this. The last few months I've been using a room equipped with 36 small Genelecs. Without a quite steep highpass or xover to subs it's fairly easy to drive them into producing a very dirty sound even at moderate levels. You *do* need subs with those, even if you don't want 'club sound'. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Thanks everyone for the information! Using four subs was mentioned a couple of times. I've never used or experienced more than two in an array. What is the justification? I assume that given a square room, you'd place one in each corner? Also - a good point was made regarding the cost effectiveness of using 32 channels in total, i.e: 28.4, instead of 32.2. As a point of reference, this is the space where I'm hoping to install the new speakers: http://www.iaia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bach_01.2011.2_sm.jpg The image shows our 24' diameter hemispherical projection surface. Perhaps digital dome theaters are particularly suited for Ambisonics given the spherical shape and the obvious shortcomings of 5.1 in this space. The video standard is a 'domemaster', a square video with a circular mask. Theaters must decode the domemaster to 'n' projectors. I would love to see domemaster videos shipped with an Ambisonics track, so that the sound could be decoded to 'n' speakers. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 03:59 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > >> On 10/15/2015 03:41 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: >> >>> What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as >>> adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta >>> mor >>> eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those >>> measurements ;) >>> >> >> For now, the low cutoff frequency would be enough. >> >> Mind you, I'm not saying that these things cannot be great creative >> tools. But I'm a sound engineer. I need to deal with the artistic output >> of other people, in such a way that they are not going to ram the >> speakers down my throat because half of the spectrum is missing. I need >> general-purpose speakers, which on a bad day means ten octaves and 110dB >> peak SPL. >> >> We've seen all those outlandish claims of magical waveguides that are >> just fractions of the wavelength in diameter and yet shape the sound so >> wonderfully that a 20Hz beam will travel all the way to the moon (using >> the revolutionary VacuProof™ technology that will finally bring >> cinema-friendly space battles). The problem is, this waveshaping is not >> physically possible. You can make a plane wave, but unless it's a huge >> plane wave with respect to frequency, the edge dispersion will make it >> fall apart. In the end, it's just a point source with a little dent in >> it. I don't even need to wait for measurements. >> >> Even if you consider ultrasonic systems: at some point, the ultrasound >> has to be demodulated (it is actually demodulated _everywhere_ in the >> beam), and then you again have a frequency-dependent radiation pattern. >> So yes, some years in the future maybe we have an ultrasonic projector >> that is actually capable of putting a kick drum right in the middle of >> the room without frying anything in its path. But as soon as the >> baseband sound materializes, it will be (almost) omnidirectional again. >> >> >> > Here's an interesting datapoint: > > http://www.ultrasonic-audio.com/images/Acouspade_vs_Audio_Spotlight.png > > Consider the Acouspade, to the right. The polar pattern is truly nice, > unless you look at the fact that we are not told what happens below 500 Hz > (because very likely, nothing much is happening there), and we take note of > the tiny, tiny dotted line that denotes 4 kHz, which is down by around 18 > dB on-axis, indicating that in the treble range, not much is happening > either. > > This is a wonderful tool if you want to whisper textual information at > your visitor. But what you are actually perceiving is your amazing ability > to suspend disbelief in the presence of a friendly voice from your own > species. > > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/27cfa2e4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 03:59 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 10/15/2015 03:41 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those measurements ;) For now, the low cutoff frequency would be enough. Mind you, I'm not saying that these things cannot be great creative tools. But I'm a sound engineer. I need to deal with the artistic output of other people, in such a way that they are not going to ram the speakers down my throat because half of the spectrum is missing. I need general-purpose speakers, which on a bad day means ten octaves and 110dB peak SPL. We've seen all those outlandish claims of magical waveguides that are just fractions of the wavelength in diameter and yet shape the sound so wonderfully that a 20Hz beam will travel all the way to the moon (using the revolutionary VacuProof™ technology that will finally bring cinema-friendly space battles). The problem is, this waveshaping is not physically possible. You can make a plane wave, but unless it's a huge plane wave with respect to frequency, the edge dispersion will make it fall apart. In the end, it's just a point source with a little dent in it. I don't even need to wait for measurements. Even if you consider ultrasonic systems: at some point, the ultrasound has to be demodulated (it is actually demodulated _everywhere_ in the beam), and then you again have a frequency-dependent radiation pattern. So yes, some years in the future maybe we have an ultrasonic projector that is actually capable of putting a kick drum right in the middle of the room without frying anything in its path. But as soon as the baseband sound materializes, it will be (almost) omnidirectional again. Here's an interesting datapoint: http://www.ultrasonic-audio.com/images/Acouspade_vs_Audio_Spotlight.png Consider the Acouspade, to the right. The polar pattern is truly nice, unless you look at the fact that we are not told what happens below 500 Hz (because very likely, nothing much is happening there), and we take note of the tiny, tiny dotted line that denotes 4 kHz, which is down by around 18 dB on-axis, indicating that in the treble range, not much is happening either. This is a wonderful tool if you want to whisper textual information at your visitor. But what you are actually perceiving is your amazing ability to suspend disbelief in the presence of a friendly voice from your own species. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 03:41 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those measurements ;) For now, the low cutoff frequency would be enough. Mind you, I'm not saying that these things cannot be great creative tools. But I'm a sound engineer. I need to deal with the artistic output of other people, in such a way that they are not going to ram the speakers down my throat because half of the spectrum is missing. I need general-purpose speakers, which on a bad day means ten octaves and 110dB peak SPL. We've seen all those outlandish claims of magical waveguides that are just fractions of the wavelength in diameter and yet shape the sound so wonderfully that a 20Hz beam will travel all the way to the moon (using the revolutionary VacuProof™ technology that will finally bring cinema-friendly space battles). The problem is, this waveshaping is not physically possible. You can make a plane wave, but unless it's a huge plane wave with respect to frequency, the edge dispersion will make it fall apart. In the end, it's just a point source with a little dent in it. I don't even need to wait for measurements. Even if you consider ultrasonic systems: at some point, the ultrasound has to be demodulated (it is actually demodulated _everywhere_ in the beam), and then you again have a frequency-dependent radiation pattern. So yes, some years in the future maybe we have an ultrasonic projector that is actually capable of putting a kick drum right in the middle of the room without frying anything in its path. But as soon as the baseband sound materializes, it will be (almost) omnidirectional again. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
another thing David - the B& W are designed for studio/mastering/audiophile use and so yes sound emanating from the back and sides are not a good thing especially in a studio environment when you want to control the acoustics for neutral monitoring - but thats quite a different application to the one I am talking about in art installations in which a 360 degree driver might be useful - Id certainly never use one for mixing ! On 15 October 2015 at 13:49, David Pickett wrote: > At 14:35 15-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot for > >me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out > >sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates > >in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in > >the 180/90 degree space on one side) > > But surely, saying that ignores the fact that in a real room what comes > out of the back (and sides) will be reflected from the room boundaries. I > think this is why the B&W 801 was in its day almost revolutionary. Because > hardly any sound came out of the back (or sides) of the speaker cabinet, > one could put it in almost any room and it would sound the same. > > David > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/ae91a0c9/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
What can I say Jorn - we have some and they work - not as well as adverstised obviously but strip away the hype they have something thta mor eor less does as described - you'll have to wait a while for those measurements ;) On 15 October 2015 at 14:39, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 03:30 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: > >> I admit there use of the word "ultrasound" is ridiculous - but they do >> work >> >> On 15 October 2015 at 14:27, Augustine Leudar >> wrote: >> >> Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call >>> it parametric or sound lazer) : >>> >>> http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ >>> >> > Hmmm. That website completely fails to amaze me. ;) > Show me your polar pattern (per frequency), show me your amplitude > response, let me look at the phase, then we talk. > > Their selling point on page one seems to be "works great in advertising" > :-D > > Not to say this thing can't be amazing fun to play with. But I'm not > considering it a serious tool unless I can see the specs. > > Which will be sobering, unless their other project on kickstarter took off > as well and they have the PhysicsIsLookingElsewhere™ field working by now. > ;) > > > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/e9496a1e/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 03:30 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: I admit there use of the word "ultrasound" is ridiculous - but they do work On 15 October 2015 at 14:27, Augustine Leudar wrote: Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call it parametric or sound lazer) : http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ Hmmm. That website completely fails to amaze me. ;) Show me your polar pattern (per frequency), show me your amplitude response, let me look at the phase, then we talk. Their selling point on page one seems to be "works great in advertising" :-D Not to say this thing can't be amazing fun to play with. But I'm not considering it a serious tool unless I can see the specs. Which will be sobering, unless their other project on kickstarter took off as well and they have the PhysicsIsLookingElsewhere™ field working by now. ;) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
no - he was saying that speakers with a narrow dispersal dont exist - which they do. He was also saying that bass radiates more widely than higher frequencies and is more omin directional - which is true so if speakers are far apart if you dont have a balanced off axis spectral response then the whole thing will sound bassier as the lower frequencies will diffuse better than the higher ones - which is good point. Conclusion : the lsr 305/8 or any speaker with good off axis response would probably be good for a larger instalation. On 15 October 2015 at 14:29, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote: > I think that what Jorn is saying is that a lot of small speakers is not > good/powerful enough to provide a proper, powerful, dynamic, full range > point in the space, which is still a very popular gesture in most panning > methods. > > > Le 15 oct. 2015 à 14:24, Augustine Leudar a > écrit : > > > Not necessarilly true Jorn - we've had a few pieces at Sarc where all > > speakers went oomph at the same time - painful > > > > On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < > > netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > > > >> On 10/15/2015 11:31 AM, Sebastian Gabler wrote: > >> > >>> That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 > >>> dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that > >>> it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. > >>> That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > >>> That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified > values. > >>> > >> > >> Careful there. No program material ever uses all speakers for the oomph > >> passages. Usually it's a very sharply located source that shouts out at > >> you, which basically means every single speaker has to be able to > deliver > >> that oomph, single-handedly. Curse of multichannel. Content doesn't > scale :( > >> > >> -- > >> Jörn Nettingsmeier > >> Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > >> > >> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > >> Tonmeister VDT > >> > >> http://stackingdwarves.net > >> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > www.augustineleudar.com > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/8cf4a6f5/attachment.html > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/3787f4b7/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
I admit there use of the word "ultrasound" is ridiculous - but they do work On 15 October 2015 at 14:27, Augustine Leudar wrote: > Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call > it parametric or sound lazer) : > > http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ > > On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < > netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > >> On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: >> >>> Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses >>> ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide >>> apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider >>> dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I >>> could see it would introduce coloration when the directivity of the >>> speakers overlapped - with wavefield synthesis the smaller the gaps >>> between >>> speaker cones the higher frequencies can be succesfully spatialised - so >>> I >>> guess for wfs more "pinpoint" directivty would be preferred - I may also >>> be >>> wrong ! For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot >>> for >>> me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out >>> sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates >>> in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound >>> in >>> the 180/90 degree space on one side) The dispersal pattern of speakers >>> isnt >>> often considered when building these kind of systems so its an >>> interesting >>> topic ! >>> >> >> >> Speakers with "narrow dispersal patterns" do not exist. All speakers are >> near-omni in the bass. What a narrow pattern gives you is a longer throw of >> the HF, which can be useful in traditional sound reinforcement. >> >> But in massive multichannel environments, overly directional speakers >> will add up to a muddy, bass-heavy diffuse field. I'd always go for as wide >> a coverage angle as possible, unless I have to deal with a really huge >> space. Since you can't avoid off-axis sound, at least make it spectrally >> balanced. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jörn Nettingsmeier >> Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 >> >> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) >> Tonmeister VDT >> >> http://stackingdwarves.net >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/6a80be16/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
I think that what Jorn is saying is that a lot of small speakers is not good/powerful enough to provide a proper, powerful, dynamic, full range point in the space, which is still a very popular gesture in most panning methods. Le 15 oct. 2015 à 14:24, Augustine Leudar a écrit : > Not necessarilly true Jorn - we've had a few pieces at Sarc where all > speakers went oomph at the same time - painful > > On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < > netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > >> On 10/15/2015 11:31 AM, Sebastian Gabler wrote: >> >>> That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 >>> dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that >>> it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. >>> That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. >>> That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. >>> >> >> Careful there. No program material ever uses all speakers for the oomph >> passages. Usually it's a very sharply located source that shouts out at >> you, which basically means every single speaker has to be able to deliver >> that oomph, single-handedly. Curse of multichannel. Content doesn't scale :( >> >> -- >> Jörn Nettingsmeier >> Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 >> >> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) >> Tonmeister VDT >> >> http://stackingdwarves.net >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/8cf4a6f5/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit > account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Here you go Jorn - a speaker with a narrow dispersion pattern - (they call it parametric or sound lazer) : http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: > >> Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses >> ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide >> apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider >> dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I >> could see it would introduce coloration when the directivity of the >> speakers overlapped - with wavefield synthesis the smaller the gaps >> between >> speaker cones the higher frequencies can be succesfully spatialised - so I >> guess for wfs more "pinpoint" directivty would be preferred - I may also >> be >> wrong ! For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot >> for >> me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out >> sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates >> in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in >> the 180/90 degree space on one side) The dispersal pattern of speakers >> isnt >> often considered when building these kind of systems so its an interesting >> topic ! >> > > > Speakers with "narrow dispersal patterns" do not exist. All speakers are > near-omni in the bass. What a narrow pattern gives you is a longer throw of > the HF, which can be useful in traditional sound reinforcement. > > But in massive multichannel environments, overly directional speakers will > add up to a muddy, bass-heavy diffuse field. I'd always go for as wide a > coverage angle as possible, unless I have to deal with a really huge space. > Since you can't avoid off-axis sound, at least make it spectrally balanced. > > > > > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/5e2fd57f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Not necessarilly true Jorn - we've had a few pieces at Sarc where all speakers went oomph at the same time - painful On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 11:31 AM, Sebastian Gabler wrote: > >> That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 >> dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that >> it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. >> That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. >> That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. >> > > Careful there. No program material ever uses all speakers for the oomph > passages. Usually it's a very sharply located source that shouts out at > you, which basically means every single speaker has to be able to deliver > that oomph, single-handedly. Curse of multichannel. Content doesn't scale :( > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/8cf4a6f5/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Well it's more like 2.8m by 3..7m with a very high ceiling slope up towards the back. It's on a platform in the roof of the building. It is also only 31 speakers really, as the one below is under my chair, and is generally disconnected. Space is one reason why I want to change to smaller speakers. Along with improving their quality. I used a 3d graphics program to place all the speakers away from doors and windows, but still keeping the angles the same. (vertices and faces of a dodecahedron) They are all fastened to walls and ceiling. The distances from centre vary of course. In reality it works very well with no obstructions in the room unless you are very tall! :-) I will make some pictures available when the next upgrade is completed. Best Steve On 15 Oct 2015 12:56, "Augustine Leudar" wrote: > 32 speakers in a 3m * 3m space ? Wow - I'd love to see some pictures if you > get a chance ! > > On 15 October 2015 at 11:21, Steven Boardman > wrote: > > > I am currently replacing my 32 passive speaker array with genelec 6010s. > > These are a cheaper alternative, that are still in stock in a lot of > > places. They have exactly the same spec, but unbalanced connections. > Which > > won't be a problem for small runs. The spl will be fine for a smaller > room > > like mine. It is 3m x 3m. If the protection is a problem roll the > > crossover higher and get more subs. I currently have 4, but if bass > > directionality suffers with a higher crossover, I will increase the > number > > and put some higher. > > > > Good luck > > > > Steve > > On 15 Oct 2015 10:32, "Sebastian Gabler" > wrote: > > > > > That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 > > dB > > > per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it > > is > > > because of the protection circuit in the manual. > > > That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > > > That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified > values. > > > > > > Sebastian > > > > > > Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: > > > > > >> One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the > > >> protection > > >> circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even > > >> sense) > > >> the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the > > limits. > > >> This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of > > the > > >> speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). > > Because > > >> the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply > > goes > > >> a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this > doesn't > > >> shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really > > >> annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you > haven't > > >> heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive > > >> speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone > > >> hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against > the > > >> sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when > you > > >> are > > >> near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in > > >> particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into > > the > > >> zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > > >> > > >> Dave > > >> > > >> > > >> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hello, > > >>> > > >>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd > > like > > >>> to > > >>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now > I'm > > >>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > > >>> > > >>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only > > >>> $350. > > >>> > > >>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for > my > > >>> situation? > > >>> > > >>> thanks, > > >>> Charles > > >>> -- next part
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Yes Jorn - what I mean wide dispersal of a spectrally balanced off axis response - ie the frequency response doesn't alter radically when you move up, down, left , right - so to clarify wide dispersal of all frequencies not just bass On 15 October 2015 at 14:14, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: > >> Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses >> ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide >> apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider >> dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I >> could see it would introduce coloration when the directivity of the >> speakers overlapped - with wavefield synthesis the smaller the gaps >> between >> speaker cones the higher frequencies can be succesfully spatialised - so I >> guess for wfs more "pinpoint" directivty would be preferred - I may also >> be >> wrong ! For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot >> for >> me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out >> sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates >> in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in >> the 180/90 degree space on one side) The dispersal pattern of speakers >> isnt >> often considered when building these kind of systems so its an interesting >> topic ! >> > > > Speakers with "narrow dispersal patterns" do not exist. All speakers are > near-omni in the bass. What a narrow pattern gives you is a longer throw of > the HF, which can be useful in traditional sound reinforcement. > > But in massive multichannel environments, overly directional speakers will > add up to a muddy, bass-heavy diffuse field. I'd always go for as wide a > coverage angle as possible, unless I have to deal with a really huge space. > Since you can't avoid off-axis sound, at least make it spectrally balanced. > > > > > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/79e0896f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 11:31 AM, Sebastian Gabler wrote: That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. Careful there. No program material ever uses all speakers for the oomph passages. Usually it's a very sharply located source that shouts out at you, which basically means every single speaker has to be able to deliver that oomph, single-handedly. Curse of multichannel. Content doesn't scale :( -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
al lot of my sound installations are outdoors. On 15 October 2015 at 13:49, David Pickett wrote: > At 14:35 15-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot for > >me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out > >sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates > >in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in > >the 180/90 degree space on one side) > > But surely, saying that ignores the fact that in a real room what comes > out of the back (and sides) will be reflected from the room boundaries. I > think this is why the B&W 801 was in its day almost revolutionary. Because > hardly any sound came out of the back (or sides) of the speaker cabinet, > one could put it in almost any room and it would sound the same. > > David > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/7582d2f5/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On 10/15/2015 02:35 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote: Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I could see it would introduce coloration when the directivity of the speakers overlapped - with wavefield synthesis the smaller the gaps between speaker cones the higher frequencies can be succesfully spatialised - so I guess for wfs more "pinpoint" directivty would be preferred - I may also be wrong ! For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot for me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in the 180/90 degree space on one side) The dispersal pattern of speakers isnt often considered when building these kind of systems so its an interesting topic ! Speakers with "narrow dispersal patterns" do not exist. All speakers are near-omni in the bass. What a narrow pattern gives you is a longer throw of the HF, which can be useful in traditional sound reinforcement. But in massive multichannel environments, overly directional speakers will add up to a muddy, bass-heavy diffuse field. I'd always go for as wide a coverage angle as possible, unless I have to deal with a really huge space. Since you can't avoid off-axis sound, at least make it spectrally balanced. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
At 14:35 15-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: >For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot for >me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out >sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates >in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in >the 180/90 degree space on one side) But surely, saying that ignores the fact that in a real room what comes out of the back (and sides) will be reflected from the room boundaries. I think this is why the B&W 801 was in its day almost revolutionary. Because hardly any sound came out of the back (or sides) of the speaker cabinet, one could put it in almost any room and it would sound the same. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Possibly ambisonics is different - but not all multichannel audio uses ambisonics - certainly with vbap for example if your speakers are wide apart you don't want a big gap when panning between them then wider dispersal would be advantageous if the speakers are very close together I could see it would introduce coloration when the directivity of the speakers overlapped - with wavefield synthesis the smaller the gaps between speaker cones the higher frequencies can be succesfully spatialised - so I guess for wfs more "pinpoint" directivty would be preferred - I may also be wrong ! For creating true walk around 3d soundscapes with no sweet spot for me a useful tool would be a driver which would be a sphere which put out sounds in all directions (360) - because thats how sound often propogates in real space (eg a twig cracking up a tree will not just put out sound in the 180/90 degree space on one side) The dispersal pattern of speakers isnt often considered when building these kind of systems so its an interesting topic ! On 15 October 2015 at 13:24, Marc Lavallée wrote: > On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:08:29 +0200, David Pickett wrote : > > At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > > > >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews > > >and cost very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off > > >axis response) which is probably good for spatial audio. > > > > Good off axis response, i.e. uncoloured response, is presumably a > > good thing. But, intuitively, I should have thought that the more > > playback channels you have, the less desirable any off axis response > > would be. Is this not so? > > > > David > > I also think that when an ambisonic array is composed of pairs of facing > loudspeakers, each pair is trying to reconstruct a directional wave. So > loudspeakers with more directivity would be better. I may be wrong, so > please comment! > -- > Marc > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com ------ next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/75e54bf8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:08:29 +0200, David Pickett wrote : > At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews > >and cost very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off > >axis response) which is probably good for spatial audio. > > Good off axis response, i.e. uncoloured response, is presumably a > good thing. But, intuitively, I should have thought that the more > playback channels you have, the less desirable any off axis response > would be. Is this not so? > > David I also think that when an ambisonic array is composed of pairs of facing loudspeakers, each pair is trying to reconstruct a directional wave. So loudspeakers with more directivity would be better. I may be wrong, so please comment! -- Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
32 speakers in a 3m * 3m space ? Wow - I'd love to see some pictures if you get a chance ! On 15 October 2015 at 11:21, Steven Boardman wrote: > I am currently replacing my 32 passive speaker array with genelec 6010s. > These are a cheaper alternative, that are still in stock in a lot of > places. They have exactly the same spec, but unbalanced connections. Which > won't be a problem for small runs. The spl will be fine for a smaller room > like mine. It is 3m x 3m. If the protection is a problem roll the > crossover higher and get more subs. I currently have 4, but if bass > directionality suffers with a higher crossover, I will increase the number > and put some higher. > > Good luck > > Steve > On 15 Oct 2015 10:32, "Sebastian Gabler" wrote: > > > That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 > dB > > per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it > is > > because of the protection circuit in the manual. > > That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > > That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. > > > > Sebastian > > > > Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: > > > >> One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the > >> protection > >> circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even > >> sense) > >> the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the > limits. > >> This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of > the > >> speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). > Because > >> the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply > goes > >> a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't > >> shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really > >> annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't > >> heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive > >> speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone > >> hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the > >> sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you > >> are > >> near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in > >> particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into > the > >> zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >>> > >>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd > like > >>> to > >>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm > >>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > >>> > >>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only > >>> $350. > >>> > >>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my > >>> situation? > >>> > >>> thanks, > >>> Charles > >>> -- next part -- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >>> > >>> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html > >>> ___ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/63e1e965/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/4afbd5d6/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] . Re: Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Is there a 32 channel amp anyone could recommend ? On 15 October 2015 at 11:52, Brian FG Katz wrote: > Just as a point of comparison, we have just installed a 24-32 ch array. > Having had issued with powered speaker arrays (cabling), we chose passive > speakers (Amadeus MPX5) with a Sonible 24ch amp and the Antelope Orion32 > compact 32ch AD/DA. > > Very happy! > -- > Brian FG Katz, Ph.D, HDR > Research Director, Resp. Groupe Audio & Acoustique > LIMSI - CNRS > Rue John von Neumann > Campus Universitaire d'Orsay, Bât 508 > 91405 Orsay cedex > France > Phone. + 33 (0)1 69 85 80 67 - Fax. + 33 (0)1 69 85 80 88 > http://www.limsi.frweb_group: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/ > web_theme: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/thmsonesp/ > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: smime.p7s > Type: application/pkcs7-signature > Size: 3873 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/1ad93a56/attachment.p7s > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/45e4728a/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at least, if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. Indicators for overload are useful but in a full sphere surround array most of them are out of sight most of the time so not necessarily helpful. Dave On 15 October 2015 at 11:14, Ilpo Martikainen wrote: > The protection circuits likely trip the tweeter first, as its thermal time > constant is much shorter than that of woofer. Also the thermal power > handling of the woofer is much higher. Normally there is an indicator > turning red if the limits are exceeded and protection is activated. Without > protection people keep replacing tweeters. > > > Ilpo > > > > > > On 15.10.2015 11:38, "Sursound on behalf of Dave Malham" < > sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu on behalf of dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: > > >One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the > protection > >circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even > sense) > >the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. > >This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the > >speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because > >the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes > >a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't > >shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really > >annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't > >heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive > >speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone > >hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the > >sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you > are > >near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in > >particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the > >zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > > > > Dave > > > > > >On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey > >wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd > like to > >> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm > >> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > >> > >> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only > $350. > >> > >> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my > >> situation? > >> > >> thanks, > >> Charles > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html > >> > > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > >-- > > > >As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > >These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > >Dave Malham > >Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > >The University of York > >York YO10 5DD > >UK > > > >'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > >-- next part -- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html > > > >___ > >Sursound mailing list > >Sursound@music.vt.edu > >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/610e8dc8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
When I was caught out by this problem the level of info described in Sebastian's post wasn't in the manuals so I hadn't thought about it - tho' I *should *have done, given the fact that I designed one for a magazine some 4 decades ago :-( Dave On 15 October 2015 at 10:31, Sebastian Gabler wrote: > That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB > per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is > because of the protection circuit in the manual. > That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. > > Sebastian > > Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: > >> One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the >> protection >> circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even >> sense) >> the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. >> This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the >> speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because >> the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes >> a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't >> shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really >> annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't >> heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive >> speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone >> hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the >> sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you >> are >> near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in >> particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the >> zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >>> >>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like >>> to >>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm >>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. >>> >>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only >>> $350. >>> >>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my >>> situation? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Charles >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html >>> ___ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >>> >> >> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/d3cc550f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] . Re: Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Just as a point of comparison, we have just installed a 24-32 ch array. Having had issued with powered speaker arrays (cabling), we chose passive speakers (Amadeus MPX5) with a Sonible 24ch amp and the Antelope Orion32 compact 32ch AD/DA. Very happy! -- Brian FG Katz, Ph.D, HDR Research Director, Resp. Groupe Audio & Acoustique LIMSI - CNRS Rue John von Neumann Campus Universitaire d'Orsay, Bât 508 91405 Orsay cedex France Phone. + 33 (0)1 69 85 80 67 - Fax. + 33 (0)1 69 85 80 88 http://www.limsi.frweb_group: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/ web_theme: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/thmsonesp/ -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3873 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/1ad93a56/attachment.p7s> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
I am currently replacing my 32 passive speaker array with genelec 6010s. These are a cheaper alternative, that are still in stock in a lot of places. They have exactly the same spec, but unbalanced connections. Which won't be a problem for small runs. The spl will be fine for a smaller room like mine. It is 3m x 3m. If the protection is a problem roll the crossover higher and get more subs. I currently have 4, but if bass directionality suffers with a higher crossover, I will increase the number and put some higher. Good luck Steve On 15 Oct 2015 10:32, "Sebastian Gabler" wrote: > That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB > per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is > because of the protection circuit in the manual. > That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. > > Sebastian > > Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: > >> One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the >> protection >> circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even >> sense) >> the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. >> This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the >> speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because >> the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes >> a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't >> shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really >> annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't >> heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive >> speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone >> hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the >> sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you >> are >> near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in >> particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the >> zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >>> >>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like >>> to >>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm >>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. >>> >>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only >>> $350. >>> >>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my >>> situation? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Charles >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html >>> ___ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >>> >> >> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/63e1e965/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
The protection circuits likely trip the tweeter first, as its thermal time constant is much shorter than that of woofer. Also the thermal power handling of the woofer is much higher. Normally there is an indicator turning red if the limits are exceeded and protection is activated. Without protection people keep replacing tweeters. Ilpo On 15.10.2015 11:38, "Sursound on behalf of Dave Malham" wrote: >One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection >circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) >the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. >This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the >speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because >the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes >a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't >shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really >annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't >heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive >speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone >hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the >sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you are >near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in >particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the >zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > > Dave > > >On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey >wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to >> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm >> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. >> >> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. >> >> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my >> situation? >> >> thanks, >> Charles >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html >> > >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > >-- > >As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > >These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > >Dave Malham >Honorary Fellow, Department of Music >The University of York >York YO10 5DD >UK > >'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' >-- next part -- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html> >___ >Sursound mailing list >Sursound@music.vt.edu >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit >account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is because of the protection circuit in the manual. That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. Sebastian Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you are near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( Dave On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey wrote: Hello, We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my situation? thanks, Charles -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Speaking of passive coaxial speakers, maybe this information is gonna be of interest for some of you. L-Acoustics has a new range of 5inches and 8inches products (5XT and X8). The company is reknown for putting a lot of attention on the polar response / off-axis behavior. I have heard the former 8 inches model (8XT) on a couple of HOA rigs, sounded great. Guillaume > Le 15 oct. 2015 à 09:38, Dave Malham a écrit : > > One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection > circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) > the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. > This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the > speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because > the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes > a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't > shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really > annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't > heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive > speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone > hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the > sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you are > near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in > particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the > zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > > Dave > > > On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to >> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm >> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. >> >> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. >> >> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my >> situation? >> >> thanks, >> Charles >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html >>> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > > -- > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > Dave Malham > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > The University of York > York YO10 5DD > UK > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit > account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you are near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( Dave On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey wrote: > Hello, > > We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to > get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm > thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > > However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. > > Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my > situation? > > thanks, > Charles > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Am 15.10.2015 um 07:08 schrieb David Pickett: At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and cost >very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response) >which is probably good for spatial audio. Good off axis response, i.e. uncoloured response, is presumably a good thing. But, intuitively, I should have thought that the more playback channels you have, the less desirable any off axis response would be. Is this not so? David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. I think the more channels you have, the more critical becomes coloured off-axis response. Anything that very faintly behaves like a point source will produce off-axis distribution. Sebastian ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
I was wondering about that as I wrote it actually - Sometimes when I have a large space between speakers I increas the directivity (using ICST) to fill in holes between speakers when panning - but this is really just spreading the sound ove rmore speakers rather than relating to the dispersal of an individual speaker. So in temrs of the disersal of an individual speaker - pinpoint or wide dispersal - I guess it depends on how far apart your speakers are ? On 15 October 2015 at 06:08, David Pickett wrote: > At 23:17 14-10-15, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > >Yeah actually the lsr308 and lsr305 have been getting rave reviews and > cost > >very little their waveguide gives wide dispersal (good off axis response) > >which is probably good for spatial audio. > > Good off axis response, i.e. uncoloured response, is presumably a good > thing. But, intuitively, I should have thought that the more playback > channels you have, the less desirable any off axis response would be. Is > this not so? > > David > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- www.augustineleudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/a749c1ed/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
