[biofuels-biz] EERE Network News -- 04/23/03
== EERE NETWORK NEWS -- April 23, 2003 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE). http://www.eere.energy.gov/ == Featuring: *News and Events New York City Joins DOE's Clean Cities Program on Earth Day Energy Star Awards Honor Energy Efficiency Leaders Toyota Unveils Improved Prius; Ford Previews Hybrid Escape Tucson Celebrates Earth Day by Opening a Zero-Energy Home Penn Doubles Its Wind Power Purchase to 10 Percent GE Hydro to Upgrade U.S. Hydropower Plants *Site News PA Windmap *Energy Facts and Tips EIA Expects Lower Gasoline Prices this Summer *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- New York City Joins DOE's Clean Cities Program on Earth Day Earth Day 2003 was yesterday, and DOE and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) marked the occasion by designating the New York City Clean Cities Coalition as the newest member of DOE's Clean Cities Program. New York City uses alternative fuels in a number of buses, garbage trucks, and light-duty vehicles, and 200 natural-gas taxis operate in the city. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/aprpr/pr03078.htm. DOE coordinates the Clean Cities Program, a locally based voluntary partnership of government and industry. Program partners help deploy alternative fuel vehicles and build supporting alternative fuel infrastructure. See the Clean Cities Program Web site at: http://www.ccities.doe.gov/. Although the official Earth Day 2003 theme, Water for Life, seems far afield from energy issues, water conservation also helps to save energy. Energy is used to pump, purify, and heat water, so any action to save water (especially hot water) will also save energy. To learn more about the Water for Life campaign and its connection to energy efficiency, see the Earth Day Network Web site and the related press release from the Alliance to Save Energy at: http://www.earthday.net/goals/ and http://www.ase.org/media/newsrel/earth_day_2003.htm. Energy Star Awards Honor Energy Efficiency Leaders DOE and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) presented the 2003 Energy Star Partner of the Year awards last week. The awards highlight the efforts of leading manufacturers, retailers, utility companies, and a variety of state and regional programs that promote energy efficiency and awareness of the Energy Star label. Leading product manufacturers won Partner of the Year awards in three categories: lighting, appliances, and windows. For lighting, Sylvania won for its large product line of Energy Star-qualified lighting, which experienced an 85 percent growth in sales in 2002. For appliances, Maytag Corporation won for its large and diverse product line of Energy Star-qualified appliances. In 2002, the company introduced new models of Energy Star-qualified appliances in every product category, including a new line of dishwashers. For windows, JELD-WEN Inc. won for its aggressive promotion of the Energy Star label. Eighty percent of the company's windows and doors carry the Energy Star label. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/aprpr/pr03076.htm. In addition to these top awards, DOE and EPA awarded Partner of the Year awards to 36 other organizations that have been instrumental in promoting energy efficiency and the Energy Star label. See the full list on the Energy Star Web site at: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=news.nr_news. Energy Star was created in 1992 by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to promote energy-efficient computers. DOE formed a partnership with EPA in 1996 to expand the scope of the Energy Star labeling program to include highly efficient appliances, residential windows, doors and skylights, compact fluorescent bulbs and fixtures, consumer electronics, heating and air conditioning systems, homes, and more. Today, more than 7,000 organizations have become Energy Star partners and are committed to improving the energy efficiency of products, homes, and businesses. See the Energy Star Web site at: http://www.energystar.gov/. Toyota Unveils Improved Prius; Ford Previews Hybrid Escape Toyota introduced a new, larger, more powerful Prius last week at the 2003 New York International Auto Show (NYIAS). The 2004 Prius is about 15 percent more fuel efficient than the current model; according to Toyota, the new model will achieve a combined city/highway fuel efficiency of more than 50 miles per gallon. At the same time, a new lift-back rear end (somewhat reminiscent of the Honda Insight) and a longer wheelbase moves the Prius up to
Re: [biofuels-biz] H2 from biomass
doesn't sound a whole lot different than standard biogas digestion, of which the methane (CH4) is rich in hydrogen. Simple is often better. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] H2 from biomass Hi, Here is a story for you: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F2A6A-2C3B-1D6D-90FB809EC58800 00pageNumber=1catID=1 MJ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Seeking Bus and driver
Please respond direct, he's not a list member. - K From: dan kahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Seeking Bus and driver Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:30:44 + Greetings Green Energy Pioneers! I am writing with a request for information/networking, to promote an exciting project. My friend Lisa (to whom I'm cc-ing this)is working to create a summer camp experience for kids where they will explore their connectedness with wild nature and create a documentary. She intends to bring these kids from Sarasota Florida to the California Redwoods and back, using a biodiesel bus - equipped with kitchen and bathroom. I am helping her to search for: 1) a suitable bus 2) a driver, preferably with biodiesel knowledge and experience I wonder if, through your work in this field, you are aware of a pool of such-qualified folk - who could manage this (fuel and transportation)aspect of the project. Optimally the person would already possess a wonderful vehicle, but if the person and the bus come from different quarters, also wonderful. I will much appreciate any leads you might provide, and wish you all my juiciest blessings in your fine work. -Dan Kahn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biomass to biodiesel
I am a new addition to the group trying to establish the feaasibility of establishing a small scale plant to process garden wast (of the order of 20 to 50 m3/day into biodiesel --- are there precedents anywhere and what is the financial feasibility? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Production
Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by-product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Positions in biodiesel sales
Dear Hakan, That is an interesting site, although it seems a bit out of date (pre-Enron days c. 2000). Increasing efficiency is certainly an important component. Here is a recent article on the topic: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/5333274.htm On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Karus, We have tried to get through to the Californians with, http://california.energy.saving.nu/ Maybe it will be of some interest for you. The official advices on energy saving are still to lower/rise temperatures and to shut down HVAC in offices during non office hours. This way they ensure the occurrence of high peak demands in predictable time periods. Hakan At 03:23 PM 4/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: I have some comments regarding my fellow citizen's comments from Dallas, Texas, but first I'd like to say that this list is fantastic and very useful. I'm a grad student in California trying to move into renewable energy production. As a research scientist I KNOW that the technologies are totally feasible - biodiesel, ethanol, photovoltaics, wind - and I also know that California gets 25% of its oil from Iraq (pre-war). So it is (unfortunately) a political issue - if it wasn't, California would have switched to renewables entirely about 25 years ago - no fossil fuels whatsoever. So I completely appreciate the 'political' posts as well as the technical ones, and I'm sure as hell not going to give up my citizenship and leave the state! Some of my fellow citizens apparently don't understand the fact that the only reason we have any rights in the US is because people fought for them for hundreds of years. Leave the country? I think not. In any case, what we are going to do in California is do what should have been done 25 years ago- completely switch to renewable energy sources. There are about a thousand entrenched obstacles, but we really have no other choice. There are thousands of people in California that are behind this approach, from all levels of society. We are going to build ethanol and biodiesel processing plants, using local agriculture, we are going to build and manufacture solar arrays and wind turbines, and anyone with the necessary skills can participate. Everyone I talk to has had enough of the energy barons and the ripoffs - see Greg Palast's chapter on California Reamin' in his new book for the details. We want no part of the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Ashcroft junta and their dreams of world conquest. What do they worry about most? Losing control of the energy supply - which is what renewable, dispersed energy means to them, which is why the first thing they did was to slash the renewable research budget. Yes, the propaganda is piled on thick here - see www.dieoff.org for a cleverly disguised example. The theme of this site is that we (in the US) are going to die a horrible death of energy starvation unless we grab the world's oilsince only an idiot would trust solar energy and biofuels to 'do the job'This is high-brow propaganda - for more examples, see www.luntzspeak.com, and then try doing a Google search for 'luntzspeak'- is that a first? Is that really censorship on Google? I hope its just technical. GW BUSH Luntzspeak: I'm proposing 1.2 billion in research funding so that America can lead the world in developing clean, hydrogen-powered automobiles...The first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free. GW BUSH English translation: The Big 3 automakers have fought for decades against fuel efficiency. But, its the State of the Union, and I need a way to look green. By 'proposing' research funding, I can put off any real emissions reductions for years. http://www.luntzspeak.com/decoder.html Anyhow, this list is great. Best wishes, Karus Solem Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] [democracies]
Dear Brah, I see no solution to the current system but it's destruction and replacement by another. I sincerely hope we don't have to return to square one after all the work to get this far. Granted there are lots of problems, but can't you find anything worth building on? If we keep starting over, we aren't going to get anywhere. Especially if we keep repeating the mistakes. Please, let us work on what we've got and try and change it towards something better. I honestly don't believe it is impossible to improve our present world. It is one small step at a time, and one gets there. Many small steps. Please don't get dismayed by the size of the problem. Bring your focus in closer and keep biting and chewing. Just look at this forum, these discussions, and grassroots efforts on biofuels, as an example. The big boys think they have the world sewn up with big oil. Meanwhile, there is a ground swell of biofuel coming that is going to wash big oil away. Yes, the media could do better. And, yes, there is corruption in the States and elsewhere. But, I also think we have come a long way since my childhood when Kennedy and Johnson and Nixon and so forth got away with what they did. Relatively speaking they have to walk on egg shells these days or some journalist is going to call them out. I think the media tends to slant things, but I don't think it is rotten to the core. They are still playing a valuable and essential role at keeping the politicians honest (I hope). Derek Hargis Keith, I sincerely appreciate this lively philosophical debate. When I have attempted in the past to paraphrase and restate what I believe to be your position, you accused me of putting words in your mouth. Perhaps it is due to the fact that I am a product of the US public education system, or just my own innate inability to think critically, but I am having difficulty understanding what exactly you believe. As you have probably gathered, I am very suspicious of government and the media it controls, and expect everyone else to be equally cynical concerning power. I see no solution to the current system but it's destruction and replacement by another. Barring this revolution, the only things that individuals can do against the current power structure is to try and gain a modicum of independence by existing as much as possible outside the political/economic/media sphere (i.e. living simply, growing food, making fuel, bartering, etc.). Furthermore, while we can't really improve the system, we can slow the erosion of our economic and political freedom by letting those in power know that we are watching them. The only way to do this is by educating ourselves and spreading the word about what is happening. As someone who has put small-scale sustainability into practice, it seems (at least superficially) that you hold some of the same values as I. However, it is apparent from your rebuttals that you disagree with me. Will you graciously indulge me by (re)stating exactly what you perceive the problem to be and what you feel we can do to fix it? Best Regards, -BRAH Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Hi mark, as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not state of the art. We were talking one time about that and decied not to follow the theme (also it seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). If you find something new to that theme let me know. To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol are more easier - from wood or as by-product from making alcohol, ... . daniel girl_mark_fire schrieb: This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Mit freundlichen Gr§en Daniel West __ Zentrum fr Sonnenenergie- und Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW) Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG) Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research Renewable Fuels and Processes Netzwerk Regenerative Kraftstoffe - ReFuelNet Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West Industriestr. 6, D-70565 Stuttgart Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200 eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zsw-bw.de http://www.refuelnet.de __ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe,
[biofuel] biodiesel stuff from the radio
I found out that for a little while longer you can hear a version of the KPFA radio program on biodiesel from last week (one of the guests, Brent, a friend of mine who just got into the biodiesel industry, couldn't pronounce transesterification. Consequently our Earth Day table the following weekend had Transesterification Spoken Here in huge letters all across my truck) It's a pretty good show (I REALLY disagree with the first caller's salivating over the oil industry being interested in biodiesel, talking about something like 'easing the oil industry into sustainability- as someone on our coop list pointed out, try telling that to a Nigerian). Dave Williamson of the B100 curbside recycling fleet is just a phenomenal speaker. the URL for the thing is : http://www.visionaryactivism.com/radioshow.htm . mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] sulfuric acid for the foolproof process
does anybody know where its legal to buy sulfuric acid in 95% quantities? THe foolproof process calls for it and while it is widely used in industry its not really available for the consumer. Also will 48% work, just a lot slower? Will the excess water in that solution make it soap up? Any help would be appreciated. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa
I've just been talking to a man about running buses on SVO. He reckons that buses that spend a lot of time with the engine ticking over have a problem with fuel contamination of the sump oil. Can anyone confirm this? James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EERE Network News -- 04/23/03
== EERE NETWORK NEWS -- April 23, 2003 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE). http://www.eere.energy.gov/ == Featuring: *News and Events New York City Joins DOE's Clean Cities Program on Earth Day Energy Star Awards Honor Energy Efficiency Leaders Toyota Unveils Improved Prius; Ford Previews Hybrid Escape Tucson Celebrates Earth Day by Opening a Zero-Energy Home Penn Doubles Its Wind Power Purchase to 10 Percent GE Hydro to Upgrade U.S. Hydropower Plants *Site News PA Windmap *Energy Facts and Tips EIA Expects Lower Gasoline Prices this Summer *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- New York City Joins DOE's Clean Cities Program on Earth Day Earth Day 2003 was yesterday, and DOE and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) marked the occasion by designating the New York City Clean Cities Coalition as the newest member of DOE's Clean Cities Program. New York City uses alternative fuels in a number of buses, garbage trucks, and light-duty vehicles, and 200 natural-gas taxis operate in the city. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/aprpr/pr03078.htm. DOE coordinates the Clean Cities Program, a locally based voluntary partnership of government and industry. Program partners help deploy alternative fuel vehicles and build supporting alternative fuel infrastructure. See the Clean Cities Program Web site at: http://www.ccities.doe.gov/. Although the official Earth Day 2003 theme, Water for Life, seems far afield from energy issues, water conservation also helps to save energy. Energy is used to pump, purify, and heat water, so any action to save water (especially hot water) will also save energy. To learn more about the Water for Life campaign and its connection to energy efficiency, see the Earth Day Network Web site and the related press release from the Alliance to Save Energy at: http://www.earthday.net/goals/ and http://www.ase.org/media/newsrel/earth_day_2003.htm. Energy Star Awards Honor Energy Efficiency Leaders DOE and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) presented the 2003 Energy Star Partner of the Year awards last week. The awards highlight the efforts of leading manufacturers, retailers, utility companies, and a variety of state and regional programs that promote energy efficiency and awareness of the Energy Star label. Leading product manufacturers won Partner of the Year awards in three categories: lighting, appliances, and windows. For lighting, Sylvania won for its large product line of Energy Star-qualified lighting, which experienced an 85 percent growth in sales in 2002. For appliances, Maytag Corporation won for its large and diverse product line of Energy Star-qualified appliances. In 2002, the company introduced new models of Energy Star-qualified appliances in every product category, including a new line of dishwashers. For windows, JELD-WEN Inc. won for its aggressive promotion of the Energy Star label. Eighty percent of the company's windows and doors carry the Energy Star label. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/aprpr/pr03076.htm. In addition to these top awards, DOE and EPA awarded Partner of the Year awards to 36 other organizations that have been instrumental in promoting energy efficiency and the Energy Star label. See the full list on the Energy Star Web site at: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=news.nr_news. Energy Star was created in 1992 by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to promote energy-efficient computers. DOE formed a partnership with EPA in 1996 to expand the scope of the Energy Star labeling program to include highly efficient appliances, residential windows, doors and skylights, compact fluorescent bulbs and fixtures, consumer electronics, heating and air conditioning systems, homes, and more. Today, more than 7,000 organizations have become Energy Star partners and are committed to improving the energy efficiency of products, homes, and businesses. See the Energy Star Web site at: http://www.energystar.gov/. Toyota Unveils Improved Prius; Ford Previews Hybrid Escape Toyota introduced a new, larger, more powerful Prius last week at the 2003 New York International Auto Show (NYIAS). The 2004 Prius is about 15 percent more fuel efficient than the current model; according to Toyota, the new model will achieve a combined city/highway fuel efficiency of more than 50 miles per gallon. At the same time, a new lift-back rear end (somewhat reminiscent of the Honda Insight) and a longer wheelbase moves the Prius up to
[biofuel] Re: I am ... that I am
Good for him. Not the reason I voted for him, but it's a bonus. Of course, I'm one of the group that feels the deed was necessary, and not evil. To each his own I suppose. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:17 AM Subject: Re: I am ... that I am Was: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory csakima wrote: Well said Kris!! Feelings of Mighty power ... that then does the ultimate evil deed. Not just give a feeling of being God's chosen few but rather a feeling of BEING a (demi)GOD. Of being almost a higher species. An evolved species. With a higher purpose. Of cleansing the earth. Purging the earth. That kind of stuff. I've attended speeches and seminars given by those kinds of people. Pretty eerie stuff. The really scary thing is that our wonderful President has made it clear, more by actions than by words, that he is one of that kind of people. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa
I think small engines have their oil changed frequently enough that this isn't a problem. The Burlington Northern Rail Road study in Montana was a problem as lubricating oil for railroad engines is changed infrequently, a reservoir and external filtration being employed. The Safflower oil which over time contaminated the lubricating oil was polymerized by the trace amounts of bearing metal(principally the copper if I recall correctly) found in the hot lubricating oil -- viscosity/lubrication then became a problem. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa I have not seen any issues with vegetable oil contaminating the lubricating oil. I have played with using wvo as lubricating oil in a junk engine. It's lasted longer than I thought. A block heater keeps it warm and liquid for startup, and fuel system sucks it from the oil sump, so it's always fresh. the fuel tank feeds the oil sump. tricky part is feeding new oil in at rate of consumption. I'm not recommending you do this on a good engine, it's just an experiment. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa I've just been talking to a man about running buses on SVO. He reckons that buses that spend a lot of time with the engine ticking over have a problem with fuel contamination of the sump oil. Can anyone confirm this? James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Production
Hello Karus, Bryan Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. There's quite a lot of info in the archives, and more here: Ethyl-esters biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html#ethylester I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by-product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? Seems it doesn't make very much. Ken Provost previously said he'd found a lot of info on small-scale methanol production, maybe he can help - but I tried similar searches and didn't find much at all. I also asked the good folks at the GAS list (gasification) at CREST, and got a response from Dr Tom Reed, who did a great deal of work on methanol fuelk production in the 70s and after. His view was that there's nothing there for backyarders, or not yet anyway. You're more or less left with destructive distillation from cellulose products (wood) or steam reformation of syngas (I think). Also, do an archive search for Hynol. Best Keith -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa
We change our oil in our road vehicles every 3 - 5 k miles. the test engine has it's oil changed every hour or so, as it's using the lubricating oil as fuel. One old engine always used a bit of lubricating oil as fuel and ended up running away until it broke. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa I think small engines have their oil changed frequently enough that this isn't a problem. The Burlington Northern Rail Road study in Montana was a problem as lubricating oil for railroad engines is changed infrequently, a reservoir and external filtration being employed. The Safflower oil which over time contaminated the lubricating oil was polymerized by the trace amounts of bearing metal(principally the copper if I recall correctly) found in the hot lubricating oil -- viscosity/lubrication then became a problem. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa I have not seen any issues with vegetable oil contaminating the lubricating oil. I have played with using wvo as lubricating oil in a junk engine. It's lasted longer than I thought. A block heater keeps it warm and liquid for startup, and fuel system sucks it from the oil sump, so it's always fresh. the fuel tank feeds the oil sump. tricky part is feeding new oil in at rate of consumption. I'm not recommending you do this on a good engine, it's just an experiment. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa I've just been talking to a man about running buses on SVO. He reckons that buses that spend a lot of time with the engine ticking over have a problem with fuel contamination of the sump oil. Can anyone confirm this? James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] [democracies]
Hello Bryan Keith, I sincerely appreciate this lively philosophical debate. When I have attempted in the past to paraphrase and restate what I believe to be your position, you accused me of putting words in your mouth. You did though - it essentially changed what I said. I don't see why you needed to restate it anyway, it was clear enough. (And I don't like being told I'm whining.) Perhaps it is due to the fact that I am a product of the US public education system, or just my own innate inability to think critically, but I am having difficulty understanding what exactly you believe. As little as possible. As you have probably gathered, I am very suspicious of government and the media it controls, Disagree - control of the US mainstream media is far more corporate than government, though there's a grey area of varying extent, as we've seen recently. and expect everyone else to be equally cynical concerning power. I see no solution to the current system but it's destruction and replacement by another. Barring this revolution, the only things that individuals can do against the current power structure is to try and gain a modicum of independence by existing as much as possible outside the political/economic/media sphere (i.e. living simply, growing food, making fuel, bartering, etc.). Furthermore, while we can't really improve the system, we can slow the erosion of our economic and political freedom by letting those in power know that we are watching them. The only way to do this is by educating ourselves and spreading the word about what is happening. Yes, I agree with that, broadly, more or less. I'm usually sceptical of efforts to reform the system from within, or perhaps of the people claiming to do so, and I don't believe that true alternatives mean going back to square one but rather going forward, or at least they can do (as with localized biofuels production and decentralization of energy supplies for example). Also everything about the system isn't necessarily anathema, there's quite a lot that can be worked with, can be used, can be improved. A great deal in fact. As someone who has put small-scale sustainability into practice, it seems (at least superficially) that you hold some of the same values as I. Yes, I think so. But sustainability and so on or whatever is a project with me. I'm a journalist: though they might not look like it these are all journalism projects for me, including this list, including Journey to Forever. At its foundation it's Fourth Estate stuff, against injustice and exploitation. This is what my friend Cecil Rajendra said: It becomes no longer a matter of choice, but the moral obligation and bounden duty of every responsible writer to bear witness to the times he lives in and to put his life and his work at the service of humanity. http://journeytoforever.org/keith_cecil.html Cecil Rajendra What's that got to do with biofuels? LOL! However, it is apparent from your rebuttals that you disagree with me. Will you graciously indulge me by (re)stating exactly what you perceive the problem to be and what you feel we can do to fix it? Your brush is getting a bit broad. My original response was to David Crabb: ... but right now, supposedly it is a full time job doing politics, so the average person wouldn't have time to research all the issues in order to make an informed decision. ... so instead you prefer to cede your responsibilities to others, who somehow out of the sheer goodness of their hearts do have the time that you don't have. How trusting to believe that they'll take them on for you and of course continue to do full honour to you and your concerns and needs. What you can then expect to happen is that your rights will be purloined and abused, as indeed they have been and continue to be. Three things you'll have to put right - or rather repossess - before democracy becomes a real option in the US again: the education system, the media, and the price-tag on a candidate's campaign. Also your citizenship - no citizenship for corporations! (Study the history of corporations.) While other interests - corporate mainly - control these institutions you'll be much closer to Curtis's dreams of slavery than to any sort of citizenship, no matter how comfortably buffered with consumer durables your slavery might be. That's a bit more specific. I think what it boils down to, Bryan, is that you perhaps think small is powerless, you do believe most people are apathetic, lazy, helpless. I don't agree with that at all. You seem to think that it's not worthwhile opposing corporate power - a wolf is a wolf, it can be expected to behave like one. I've noted many instances of apparently powerless individuals, small groups, grass-roots efforts with zilch resources bringing corporations to a grinding halt. You might not see that because you might doubt that such ordinary people had enough sense (or lack of apathy and laziness) to
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Production
Most Methanol made in America today is made from Natural gas by destructive distilation. You can make your own with methain using copper scub pads for a catilist but it is expensive. You would be better off useing ethel alcohol. You can use cornmeal to take the last 5% of the water out of the vapor. (A still will only make 95% pure alcohol and you will need 100% to make biodesiel) -Original Message- From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:57:16 -0500 Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Production Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by-product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory
yep, and it's the electoral vote that counts in this country, not the popular vote. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory After looking at the US American presidential Historical Election Results http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/results/restable.html I thought this reference would help. Year Candidate and Party Electoral Vote Popular Vote 2000 George W. Bush, Republican 271 50,456,169 Al Gore, Democrat 266 50,996,116 Ralph Nader, Green. . .2,695,696 I misplaced the comment from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Fisher from Dallas,TX who expressed the results. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory
Amen. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 18:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory The American system could work fairly well with a few minor adjustments, like limits on campaign spending and term limits. We must stop candidates from buying their posts and there is no place on this planet for long term politicians. They are an abomination, every one of them sells out to big money sooner or later. I guess there might be an exception but, I sure as hell can't remember any lately. kris --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear John, I do not think that voting in a mob is a democracy, maybe you could call it an illegal democratic decision. We have seen many misuse of the democratic systems, maybe one very recent one. The thing is that we do not have anything better and with a lawful parliamentary democracy you are not secure anyway, as history show with painful accuracy. Plato did loose his beliefs in democracy, when Socrates was sentenced to death by a direct democracy. He obviously had strong reasons. I do not know of any democracy of today, that have a direct democracy of that kind. It is therefore natural for me to judge a current situation and not disqualify a democracy because of something that do not exist. I have earlier raised doubts about direct democracy, but the only form that are used today are advisory referendums. A parliament that are responsible for decisions do not even have the obligation to follow a referendum result, if it is strong reasons for not to do so. Until somebody does not come up with a better and fairer system, I think that I keep my beliefs in democracies. I will even include the US one in it, despite the obvious corporate vote purchasing. Hakan At 12:34 PM 4/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: I do not understand why you think that parliamentary democracy has anything to do with mob rule. I have never heard such a stupid definition of democracy and never experienced it either. I have to ask you what the opposite alternative is? It is the besetting vice of democracies to substitute public opinion for law. This is the usual form in which the masses of men exhibit their tyranny. -James Fenimore Cooper Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic. - Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn Hakan, I normally respect what you have to say around this parts, but I think you are overreacting to Kirk's cynical definition of democracy. Respect for the rule of law is required to temper pure democracy for otherwise it is doomed to decay into a tyranny of the majority. I don't want to speak for Kirk, but I imagine his point was that democracy must be tempered by law. Presumably, you automatically assume such contraints when you use the phrase parliamentary democracy. However, I think Kirk's point remains that a pure unconstrained democracy is a very dangerous thing. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Before the catalytic reaction process, methanol was made from the destructive distillation of wood, or making charcoal and distillation / condensing of the gasses given off in the process. A very time consuming and un-efficient process, I think that it was on the order of 1 gal of mixed liquid ( mostly methanol ) for every 100 lbs. of wood, and cost about $10.00 a gal. ( before the catalytic process ) when reasonably pure. The catalytic process is doable on the village level, but, is still expensive compared to the large scale production. I was checking into this when I first joined the list, and there was a book that I had some information from (about a farmer that made a farm scale plant ) that I mentioned, it should be in the list archives. Greg H. - Original Message - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 00:14 Subject: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Icarus Solem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've been trying to find technical info on the use of ethanol in the biodiesel manufacturing process, with no luck. I've been discussing the possibility of a small-scale plant that produced both biodiesel and ethanol, using agricultural raw materials (we are lucky in California - lots of raw materials). It seems that there would have to be an internal production of methanol to feed into biodiesel production- perhaps not hard to do if you are making ethanol at the same time? Apparently any woody material can be used for methanol production. I don't know of any yeast that churn out methanol, although there may be some bacteria that do. You would need some good distillation equipment, in any case. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Bryan Brah wrote: Since it is so difficult to make BioDiesel with ethanol, how hard would it be to make methanol at home? I know that methanol is a by- product of ethanol distillation of fruits containing high concentrations of pectin, is there a way to exploit this fact and make just methanol? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Production
Keith, I too found information on the process of creating methanol from syn-gas (CO, CO2, H2): http://www.methanex.com/emergingenergy/syngasfactory.htm Although I could not find out how the natural gas is transformed into the syngas, I did find some information on destructive distillation: http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA5/MAIN/1ORGANIC/ORG18/DDWOOD/MOVIE.HTM This is an alcohol fuels glossary - I recommend everyone look at this if you are interested in alcohol fuels: http://www.dnr.state.la.us/SEC/EXECDIV/TECHASMT/lep/fal87/020.htm Methanol toxicity: http://csf.colorado.edu/envtecsoc/2000/msg00541.html Oh, I found this too: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_sawdust.html I may do an experiment this summer on the feasibility of home destructive distillation. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Keith Addison wrote: Seems it doesn't make very much. Ken Provost previously said he'd found a lot of info on small-scale methanol production, maybe he can help - but I tried similar searches and didn't find much at all. I also asked the good folks at the GAS list (gasification) at CREST, and got a response from Dr Tom Reed, who did a great deal of work on methanol fuelk production in the 70s and after. His view was that there's nothing there for backyarders, or not yet anyway. You're more or less left with destructive distillation from cellulose products (wood) or steam reformation of syngas (I think). Also, do an archive search for Hynol. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biomethanol Re: Methanol Production
Once upon a time it was created with CH4 + O and a chromium or copper catalyst. High pressure and temperatures were needed, that's why even the big plants use syngas now. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Daniel West wrote: Hi mark, as far as I know the easy way to go - to put an O into the CH4 by a catalytic reaction - is not state of the art. We were talking one time about that and decied not to follow the theme (also it seems a little bit dangerous to make it this way). If you find something new to that theme let me know. To go the longer way is doable but very elaborate: reform the methane gas to synthesis gas (CO and H2) then make the synthesis to methanol. You also need gas cleaning (sulphur) and stuff. I have no idea if the other ways to make methanol are more easier - from wood or as by-product from making alcohol, ... . daniel girl_mark_fire schrieb: This is all very interesting to me- I just spent part of last night looking for diy methanol info, with no success. My interest was in looking for info on turning methane (from a digester, digesting glycerine and other waste) into methanol. I now know more about fuel methanol (yuck) and no more about making the stuff. But google searches for biomethanol turn up that Smithfield Farms hog-waste-to- biomethanol-to-biodiesel-elsewhere plan. It was in the news a few months ago- and they hadn't at that point decided on where the biodiesel itself was going to be produced- and I;m kind of curious now about where that project has gone. Someone who was a list member turned up a plant that made industrial ethanol whose 'waste product' was quantities of methanol of questionable purity (contaminated with ethanol)- which the plant didn't know what to do with. something to definitely investigate in california- we can work with it if it's part ethanol and we're using good oil. If I remember correctly, I think that making methanol out of wood is pretty challenging and energy intensive- you have to heat it with no oxygen or something like that. It's pretty different than fermenting waste for ethanol production. I'm curious about biomethanol from methane, though- is it doable on a village (small business?) scale? mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory
(BWhat about Representative Ron Paul? -BRAH (B (B (B (B-Original Message- (BFrom: Kris Book [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (BSent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:53 PM (BTo: biofuel@yahoogroups.com (BSubject: Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory (B (B (B (BThe American system could work fairly well with a few minor (Badjustments, like limits on campaign spending and term (Blimits. We must stop candidates from buying their posts and (Bthere is no place on this planet for long term politicians. (BThey are an abomination, every one of them sells out to big (Bmoney sooner or later. I guess there might be an exception (Bbut, I sure as hell can't remember any lately. (B (Bkris (B (B (B--- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (B (B Dear John, (B (B I do not think that voting in a mob is a democracy, maybe (B you (B could call it an illegal democratic decision. We have (B seen many (B misuse of the democratic systems, maybe one very recent (B one. (B (B The thing is that we do not have anything better and with (B a lawful (B parliamentary democracy you are not secure anyway, as (B history (B show with painful accuracy. (B (B Plato did loose his beliefs in democracy, when Socrates (B was (B sentenced to death by a direct democracy. He obviously (B had strong (B reasons. I do not know of any democracy of today, that (B have a (B direct democracy of that kind. It is therefore natural (B for me to (B judge a current situation and not disqualify a democracy (B because (B of something that do not exist. (B (B I have earlier raised doubts about direct democracy, but (B the (B only form that are used today are advisory referendums. A (B parliament that are responsible for decisions do not even (B have (B the obligation to follow a referendum result, if it is (B strong reasons (B for not to do so. (B (B Until somebody does not come up with a better and fairer (B system, (B I think that I keep my beliefs in democracies. I will (B even include (B the US one in it, despite the obvious corporate vote (B purchasing. (B (B Hakan (B (B At 12:34 PM 4/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: (B Hakan Falk wrote: (B (B I do not understand why you think that parliamentary (B democracy (B has anything to do with mob rule. I have never heard (B such a stupid (B definition of democracy and never experienced it (B either. I have to (B ask you what the opposite alternative is? (B (B "It is the besetting vice of democracies to substitute (B public opinion (B for law. This is the usual form in which the masses of (B men exhibit their (B tyranny." -James Fenimore Cooper (B (B "Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a (B totalitarian regime, (B suppress minorities and still remain democratic." (B - Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (B (B Hakan, I normally respect what you have to say around (B this parts, but I (B think you are overreacting to Kirk's cynical definition (B of democracy. (B Respect for the rule of law is required to temper pure (B democracy for (B otherwise it is doomed to decay into a tyranny of the (B majority. (B (B I don't want to speak for Kirk, but I imagine his point (B was that (B democracy must be tempered by law. Presumably, you (B automatically assume (B such contraints when you use the phrase parliamentary (B democracy. (B However, I think Kirk's point remains that a pure (B unconstrained (B democracy is a very dangerous thing. (B (B John (B (B (B (B Yahoo! Groups Sponsor (B (B Biofuel at Journey to Forever: (B http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html (B (B Biofuels list archives: (B http://archive.nnytech.net/ (B (B Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list (B address. (B To unsubscribe, send an email to: (B [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (B Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to (B http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ (B (B (B (B (B__ (BDo you Yahoo!? (BThe New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo (Bhttp://search.yahoo.com (B (B (B (B (BYahoo! Groups Sponsor (B (B (Bhttp://rd.yahoo.com/M=249982.3179269.4495679.2595810/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http:/hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556lineid=3179269$B"g(B=egroupwebpos=HM (B (B (B (Bhttp://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=249982.3179269.4495679.2595810/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=762419243 (B (B (B (BBiofuel at Journey to Forever: (Bhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html (B (BBiofuels list archives: (Bhttp://archive.nnytech.net/ (B (BPlease do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. (BTo unsubscribe, send an email to: (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service (Bhttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . (B (B (B (B[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] (B (B (B
Re: [biofuel] cleanschoolbussusa
I have been told that oil contamination by fuel on idling semis is a problem, including anecdotal stories of overflowing crankcases on semis left to idle all night. The engine block apparently doesn't maintain a high enuff temp (and the compression is lower than operating conditions), leading to fuel bypassing the rings. -Guy- I've just been talking to a man about running buses on SVO. He reckons that buses that spend a lot of time with the engine ticking over have a problem with fuel contamination of the sump oil. Can anyone confirm this? James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Connecticut group AltFuelVehicles-CT
Seeking owners and drivers in Connecticut to join a new e-mail listserv group, AltFuelVehicles-CT. To join, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AltFuelVehicles-CT Here is the group description: Discussion of alternative fuel vehicles in Connecticut--including Toyota, Honda, other hybrids; electric vehicles; biodiesel; hydrogen fuel cell cars; etc. This group is for advice and technical assistance, but we hope it will also lead to meet-ups, parades, and celebration of the low-emission way of life. If there is enough interest, it will spin off smaller interest groups. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] methanol recovery still anyone
I'm about 100 gallons into this home brew game and quite addicted. But there's the environmental issue tht I hear many of y'all turning over, methanol is pretty nasty, ethanol a bit more friendly. I have been told that I can recover almost all of the methanol. is this right. Then who has made a still. I am pretty ready to start one out of the 40 gallon hot water heater tank. NIce closed system with heating elements already in it. Has anyone made a still and how much are they recovering? Can you use the methanol indefinately? Also I've heard of someone needing to 'get rid' of some ethanol that's not pure. catch is they are only selling 1000 plus gallons anyone wish to go in on a tanker full? what are the risks? thanks bowlcole Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory
yep, and it's the electoral vote that counts in this country, not the popular vote. Steve Spence My guess is most people figured that out but just in case, Steve has seconded the emotion. If anyone would like to check the results -- U.S. National Archives Records Administration 2000 Presidential Election: Electoral College Members Including State-by-State Electoral Vote Results http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/members_2000.html 2000 Presidential Election: Popular Vote Totals Vote totals are as shown on each State's Certificate of Ascertainment. The highest number is highlighted. http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/popular_vote_2000.html 2004 US Presidential Candidates Candidate Listing by Party: US Presidential Election Resources: State Primary Dates Electoral College Votes per State What is the Electoral College? Debates, Forums Events Other Internet Resources http://www.vote-smart.org/election_president.php After looking at the US American presidential Historical Election Results http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/results/restable.html I thought this reference would help. Year Candidate and Party Electoral Vote Popular Vote 2000 George W. Bush, Republican 271 50,456,169 Al Gore, Democrat266 50,996,116 Ralph Nader, Green . . . 2,695,696 I misplaced the comment from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Fisher of Dallas,TX who expressed the results. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Another Plastics question
Hello, Here is another question for the people who know their plastics: Can I store my .1% lye solution in a regular pop/bottled water bottle? Or does it need to be in #2 plastic as well? Thanks, Dan __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Seeking Bus and driver
Please respond direct, he's not a list member. - K From: dan kahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Seeking Bus and driver Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:30:44 + Greetings Green Energy Pioneers! I am writing with a request for information/networking, to promote an exciting project. My friend Lisa (to whom I'm cc-ing this)is working to create a summer camp experience for kids where they will explore their connectedness with wild nature and create a documentary. She intends to bring these kids from Sarasota Florida to the California Redwoods and back, using a biodiesel bus - equipped with kitchen and bathroom. I am helping her to search for: 1) a suitable bus 2) a driver, preferably with biodiesel knowledge and experience I wonder if, through your work in this field, you are aware of a pool of such-qualified folk - who could manage this (fuel and transportation)aspect of the project. Optimally the person would already possess a wonderful vehicle, but if the person and the bus come from different quarters, also wonderful. I will much appreciate any leads you might provide, and wish you all my juiciest blessings in your fine work. -Dan Kahn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/pDi3hB/OC5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol recovery still anyone
Talk to the guys at The Revenoor Co. They build stills from 5 to 1,000 gallon capacity and larger. They also build a recycling still to recover acetones, thinners and the likes. Making your own ethanol is very easy, legal and fun.www.revenoor.com503.662.4173 bowlcole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm about 100 gallons into this home brew game and quite addicted. But there's the environmental issue tht I hear many of y'all turning over, methanol is pretty nasty, ethanol a bit more friendly. I have been told that I can recover almost all of the methanol. is this right. Then who has made a still. I am pretty ready to start one out of the 40 gallon hot water heater tank. NIce closed system with heating elements already in it. Has anyone made a still and how much are they recovering? Can you use the methanol indefinately? Also I've heard of someone needing to 'get rid' of some ethanol that's not pure. catch is they are only selling 1000 plus gallons anyone wish to go in on a tanker full? what are the risks? thanks bowlcole Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z_CBYA/vB5FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
