[Biofuel] Fwd: article on biodiesel in Rural VT newsletter

2004-11-19 Thread TILAPIA

Watch out, its a heavy duty rant:

> Published by the farmer advocacy group Rural Vermont
> 
> from:  http://www.vtce.org/biodiesel.html
> 
> Rural Vermont’s Farm Policy Network News
> September 2004, Issue #26
> 
> Not the Biodiesel You Think It Is
> By Michael Feiner
> 
> What starts at the pump and comes out of the tailpipe is not the beginning 
> and end of the discussion on biodiesel, or other “environmentally friendly 
> alternatives.” As with everything else in today’s commodified consumer 
> culture, 
> if you want a fair cost/benefit analysis, you’re going to have to follow 
> the 
> waste stream back a little further.
> 
> Most of the biodiesel available today in New England is brought to you by 
> World Energy Alternatives, LLC, a privately owned company controlling most of 
> the US market for this new fuel. The distribution and production of biodiesel 
> is being regulated by the EPA and DOE, two institutions with proven track 
> records for favoring big business over independent producers. Their aim is 
> not 
> to allow the people control of their resources, or to insure higher quality, 
> or to lower the gross pollution of our delicate biosphere, but rather to 
> further consolidate the market in the lap of transnational corporate 
> interests, 
> and keep the public nipping at the pump. According to World Energy’s own 
> website, biodiesel is primarily made from, “virgin vegetable oils 
> (primarily 
> soybeans)” redirecting the market “surplus” of vegetable oil into 
> another saleable 
> form. Why is there a surplus of domestic soybean oil? Because the regulatory 
> agencies in the much of the rest of the world have declined to accept 
> American export of genetically engineered (GE) soy products, i.e. the US 
> “surplus” 
> commodity.
> 
> According to a recent article in the Brattleboro Reformer titled, Support 
> for biodiesel growing in Vermont, (9/18/04, Howard Weiss-Tisman) ‘Vermont 
> farmers grow about 1,000 acres of soybeans which mostly goes to cow feed. 
> Lane 
> (David Lane, deputy secretary for agricultural development at the Vermont 
> Agency 
> of Agriculture) said he wanted to hear what increased production might mean 
> for the Vermont farmer.” What he and others involved in the big push for 
> biodiesel production in the state do not seem to be concerned with is what 
> increased production of Genetically Engineered Soy in Vermont will mean for 
> the 
> environment, for health, and for the future. Of the 1,000 acres of soy 
> already 
> being grown in Vermont, it is safe to say that most of that is GE, and the 
> variety spreading like wildfire across the country and now into Vermont is 
> Monsanto’s Roundup Ready Soy. Vermonters will not miss this obvious 
> exclusion in 
> the biodiesel debate and just be blinded by the pretty golden glow around 
> biodiesel…Or will they?
> 
> Unlike the United States, much of the rest of the world has been more 
> skeptical and cautious on the issue of genetic engineering, having the 
> foresight to 
> see the threat this technology as pollution would have on their environment. 
> In 2002, the authorities of Zimbabwe even went so far as to deny the import 
> of US food aid in the midst of a widespread hunger crises because the 
> “food”
> , mostly whole corn kernels, was genetically engineered and the risk that 
> some kernels might end up being planted in the ground was too high. To wit, 
> the 
> Bush administration has also tied the acceptance of GE exports to AIDS relief 
> packages and international trade security. The corporate and government 
> interests behind this dangerous new technology have found their sheep’s 
> clothing, 
> or cow’s, with the advent of biodiesel. Now they can steal into bed with 
> well-meaning environmental organizations and their constituencies, still 
> pushing 
> their same devil seed onto an unknowing public, only this time in a package 
> a public clamoring for “alternatives” can’t resist; biodiesel; 
> agribusiness’
>  new Trojan Horse. But it doesn’t have to be that way.
> 
> Two more wars in the last four years, and the ongoing neo-colonial 
> operations in Latin America to secure more US corporate control of petroleum 
> resources, have woken a few people up from the calm stupor of the late 
> 90’s. This and 
> the drastic spike in the price for this America’s greatest addiction, oil, 
> have urged the 21st century environmentalist to ratchet up the pressure in 
> the 
> push for “alternative energy,” especially biodiesel, and Vermont is no 
> exception. At the same time people have been raising their voices loud across 
> the 
> globe against genetic engineering. The last ten years in Vermont have seen a 
> grassroots movement against GE and the planting of these toxic crops in the 
> state virtually explode in the legislature and across 80 town meetings, in 
> the 
> streets and on the farms. The two are not mutually exclusive poi

[Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Nathaniel Rahav


Dear List,

Since reading Matt Savinar's book "Life After the Oil Crash" my eyes have 
been opened to a whole new way of looking at current events.

(http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

Intuitively, I had believed and sensed many of the things discussed in the 
book, but this integrated all the various facts into one whole which is 
drastically affecting my actions.


It is a direct result of reading that book that I am now subscribed to 
this list, reading the archives, and learning about all kinds of exciting 
projects. I am looking for a used Diesel car and plan on making my own BD 
ASAP. You will probably see some emails from me in the near future asking 
all kinds of "newbie" questions as I embark on this exciting journey.


But in the meantime, I wanted to ask everyone some more general questions 
relating to Peak Oil and your perceptions/opinions.

To the credit of
people like Matt Savinar and others who are spreading the word about Peak 
Oil, their "alarmist" tone and gloomy predictions shock the ignorant out 
of their seats and instigate (hopefully positive) change. However, to 
their fault, that very same tone of alarm and doom-prophecy seems to be 
lacking a level-headed "quality" which takes into account the great 
capacity humanity has to elevate itself to do great things. So, while I 
see the point of the Peak Oil argument and am doing some things about it 
(not to mention telling everyone I know), here are some more "cosmic" 
questions that I was hoping some people on this list may have some 
interesting thoughts on:


 Despite the obvious trends in global politics that are very much inline 
with Peak Oil's predictions, there is also a global counter-trend, which 
is inline with mystic predictions of "evolution of consciousness": more 
people are spending more time learning meditation, self-awareness, dietary 
changes, & spiritual searches. This is not the "organized religion" 
mentioned in the recent thread on fascism. This is personal, mystical 
journeys. It is a widespread phenomonon worldwide.
-  According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time that is very 
conducive towards the unification of humanity. This began last June 6th 
with the Venus Transit and will last till June 2012. This time period was 
predicted by ancient Mayan texts as a very important time for humanity. 
See: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ or 
http://www.awakening-healing.com/A-HNewsLetters/2004/Venus_Transit_KW_404.htm
Has anyone in the Peak Oil community done any astrological inquiries as to 
the trend of the planet? Are we really headed towards the doom and mass 
dying that is predicted, according to Astrologists ?


- According to Hindu/Yogic metaphysics, the universe moves through periods 
of light and dark. There are 4 distinct stages (in order of evil -> 
truth):

1) Kali Yuga 2) Dwapara Yuga 3) Treta Yuga 4) Satya Yuga
Many believe that we have already entered Dwapara Yuga. Some believe we 
are still in Kali Yuga. Everyone is certain that we are on the upswing of 
this cycle, meaning that we are headed towards greater truth & 
consciousness in all realms of the world.

(http://baharna.com/karma/yuga.htm)
So my next question is : where do the Peak Oil predictions fit within the 
context of the mystical sages of this world ? Has anyone consulted any 
sages/prophets/mystics to see where they see the universe headed ?


Essentially my questions are the same. Where does Peak Oil's vision of 
catastrophic world wars, death, & destruction fit within the assumption 
that the universe's underlying goal is Good? That humanity's direction is 
towards higher consciousness? That we are not "bacteria on a petri dish" 
but rather highly evolved creatures that have a tremendous capacity 
towards the Supramental 
(http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Supramental_Descent/id/1933) ?



Please note that I am not a subscriber to any one belief system or 
theory. I am, like anyone else, just trying to figure out whats going on 
with the universe through whatever means possible.


I look forward to hearing any insights you all may have.

Thanks

Nat

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Re: [Biofuel] Reducing Iodine Value

2004-11-19 Thread Gregg Davidson

Thanks Ernie,
 
I just didn't want to create a bigger problem for myself by wrecking a diesel 
engine if & when I can get things sorted at my end.
 
Gregg

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gregg,

I am coming in late on this topic, and my memory is lapsing with age, so 
please forgive a little dawdling. My recollection is that the iodine number is 
a 
measure of the quantity of double bonds in an oil, of any kind. The reason 
you might worry about double bonds is that they represent chemical activity, or 
instability, of the oil. For example, flax oil requires refrigeration to 
preserve its food value because of its high double bond content (i.e., omega-3 
content). Northern-climate organisms avoid low-temperature problems (freezing) 
of their oils by keeping chains short (like canola oil) or by increasing the 
content of double bonds, which also lowers the oil's melting point (as in 
cold-water fish oils).

So, what I am saying is-- biodiesel with double bonds will have less 
low-temperature problems, but increasing storage problems. The standard 
chemical 
treatment to remove double bonds is to hydrogenate, which a backyard biodiesel 
maker isn't going to get into. The product in this case is "Crisco." What you 
really want to do is shorten the chains, but that's not easy either since it 
also requires hydrogen. (Experts out there check me on this.)

As for the questionable oil from fast-food places, the unstable oils are 
already along the path of change, having absorbed oxygen, forming more acid 
groups and other nasty stuff. (Good reason to eat at home, but still get your 
fuel 
from McDonald's.) These contaminants are naturally removed in making your 
biodiesel, I believe. (Not completely sure.)

So, I don't think you have a serious problem here.

Ernie Rogers

Gregg said,
Hi Everyone,

I recently posted a question regarding the Iodine Value of corn oil. With 
help, I was able to find the answer I was looking for. Since the I.V. is 
important, I was wondering if there was a simple way to reduce the I.V. on 
"questionable" WVO. I have sources, but I have no idea what it is that I'm 
getting, 
soybean, peanut, canola, etc.

As always, any help & suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Gregg Davidson
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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Hakan Falk


Nat,

I do not have your philosophical views on this, but have tried to 
understand it as good as possible, to give our web site visitors information,


Fossil energy depletion and emission.
http://energysavingnow.com/depletion/

Hakan


At 11:57 PM 11/18/2004, you wrote:


Dear List,

Since reading Matt Savinar's book "Life After the Oil Crash" my eyes have 
been opened to a whole new way of looking at current events.

(http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

Intuitively, I had believed and sensed many of the things discussed in the 
book, but this integrated all the various facts into one whole which is 
drastically affecting my actions.


It is a direct result of reading that book that I am now subscribed to 
this list, reading the archives, and learning about all kinds of exciting 
projects. I am looking for a used Diesel car and plan on making my own BD 
ASAP. You will probably see some emails from me in the near future asking 
all kinds of "newbie" questions as I embark on this exciting journey.


But in the meantime, I wanted to ask everyone some more general questions 
relating to Peak Oil and your perceptions/opinions.

To the credit of
people like Matt Savinar and others who are spreading the word about Peak 
Oil, their "alarmist" tone and gloomy predictions shock the ignorant out 
of their seats and instigate (hopefully positive) change. However, to 
their fault, that very same tone of alarm and doom-prophecy seems to be 
lacking a level-headed "quality" which takes into account the great 
capacity humanity has to elevate itself to do great things. So, while I 
see the point of the Peak Oil argument and am doing some things about it 
(not to mention telling everyone I know), here are some more "cosmic" 
questions that I was hoping some people on this list may have some 
interesting thoughts on:


 Despite the obvious trends in global politics that are very much inline 
with Peak Oil's predictions, there is also a global counter-trend, which 
is inline with mystic predictions of "evolution of consciousness": more 
people are spending more time learning meditation, self-awareness, 
dietary changes, & spiritual searches. This is not the "organized 
religion" mentioned in the recent thread on fascism. This is personal, 
mystical journeys. It is a widespread phenomonon worldwide.
-  According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time that is very 
conducive towards the unification of humanity. This began last June 6th 
with the Venus Transit and will last till June 2012. This time period was 
predicted by ancient Mayan texts as a very important time for humanity. 
See: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ or 
http://www.awakening-healing.com/A-HNewsLetters/2004/Venus_Transit_KW_404.htm
Has anyone in the Peak Oil community done any astrological inquiries as to 
the trend of the planet? Are we really headed towards the doom and mass 
dying that is predicted, according to Astrologists ?


- According to Hindu/Yogic metaphysics, the universe moves through periods 
of light and dark. There are 4 distinct stages (in order of evil -> truth):

1) Kali Yuga 2) Dwapara Yuga 3) Treta Yuga 4) Satya Yuga
Many believe that we have already entered Dwapara Yuga. Some believe we 
are still in Kali Yuga. Everyone is certain that we are on the upswing of 
this cycle, meaning that we are headed towards greater truth & 
consciousness in all realms of the world.

(http://baharna.com/karma/yuga.htm)
So my next question is : where do the Peak Oil predictions fit within the 
context of the mystical sages of this world ? Has anyone consulted any 
sages/prophets/mystics to see where they see the universe headed ?


Essentially my questions are the same. Where does Peak Oil's vision of 
catastrophic world wars, death, & destruction fit within the assumption 
that the universe's underlying goal is Good? That humanity's direction is 
towards higher consciousness? That we are not "bacteria on a petri dish" 
but rather highly evolved creatures that have a tremendous capacity 
towards the Supramental 
(http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Supramental_Descent/id/1933) ?



Please note that I am not a subscriber to any one belief system or theory. 
I am, like anyone else, just trying to figure out whats going on with the 
universe through whatever means possible.


I look forward to hearing any insights you all may have.

Thanks

Nat



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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Ken Provost

on 11/18/04 2:57 PM, Nathaniel Rahav at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> To the credit of people like Matt Savinar..shock the ignorant out
> of their seats and instigate (hopefully positive) change. However, to
> their fault,.seems to be lacking a level-headed "quality" which
> takes into account the great capacity humanity has to elevate itself
> to do great things.


What sort of great things are you referring to? The one I usually hear
about is "ending slavery". (It never ended.)  Oh, and going to the moon
-- if we even DID that, the money was coughed up for military reasons.


> According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time that is very
> conducive towards the unification of humanity.


I know of no evidentiary model of the physical universe that would
support the basic tenets of astrology. Perhaps you have some data
beyond the "it works for ME" anecdotes


> Everyone is certain that we are on the upswing of this cycle, meaning
> that we are headed towards greater truth & consciousness in all realms
> of the world.


Who is this everyone? I for one am skeptical. A strong leader who
understands the requirements of sustainability could do great work
worldwide, but most of the existing economic and political structures
are actively dedicated to preventing that from happening.


> Where does Peak Oil's vision of catastrophic world wars, death, &
> destruction fit within the assumption that the universe's underlying
> goal is Good? 


Many of my friends would LIKE that to be true. Very few assume it.



> ...we are not "bacteria on a petri dish" but rather highly evolved
> creatures...


We "evolved into" humans a couple million years ago under very different
circumstances. Once we achieved technology (fire? the wheel? where did it
begin?), we rapidly leapt ahead of our ability to forsee and plan for its
consequences. I would guess this is a problem faced cosmos-wide by all
species who develop along similar paths. Most probly crash and burn, while
a few figure out how to cope.

-K


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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Hakan Falk


Ken,

At 03:00 AM 11/19/2004, you wrote:

on 11/18/04 2:57 PM, Nathaniel Rahav at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Everyone is certain that we are on the upswing of this cycle, meaning
> that we are headed towards greater truth & consciousness in all realms
> of the world.


Who is this everyone? I for one am skeptical. A strong leader who
understands the requirements of sustainability could do great work
worldwide, but most of the existing economic and political structures
are actively dedicated to preventing that from happening.


and US is about to waste 4 more years on Bush. LOL (instead of tears)



> Where does Peak Oil's vision of catastrophic world wars, death, &
> destruction fit within the assumption that the universe's underlying
> goal is Good?


Many of my friends would LIKE that to be true. Very few assume it.


me too.






Hakan  



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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Ken Provost

on 11/18/04 6:14 PM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> 
> and US is about to waste 4 more years on Bush. LOL (instead of tears)
> 


I really hope the EU will "pick up some of the slack" that
the US will be abrogating these next few years. Taking a leadership
role in combatting global warming is a good start. Paying for all
their oil in euros (and using much less) would be good, and also
actively boycotting american goods.

SOMEBODY has to be the grown-up here -- Bush won't do it, Blair
seems to be in Bush's pocket. Putin has his own problems. Doesn't
anybody want the job?  -K

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Re: [Biofuel] Concession speech

2004-11-19 Thread Akfixer

In a message dated 11/17/2004 10:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, Red America. I'm
talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping,
inbred drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped
grade-school grads. Vote for me, I truly believe that I can help your smug, 
sorry asses.
&&
Not a nice way to win friends  Someone told her friend she could not make 
up her mind on who to vote for.  The friend said if she was undecided about 
the men to vote for the wife.  I guess that's what a lot of people did.   Bill W
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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Hakan Falk


Ken,

Yes, it seems that the oil by all piratical means is based in Euro now and 
that the dollar slipped with higher dollar price as consequence. The oil 
price movement in Euro has not been that large and impacts in Europe are less.


Kyoto will be for real now and that is a good start. Putin did sign it and 
is aligning himself with Europe.


Boycott , no, but it can be something like it in practical terms, as a 
consequence of that they did not signed Kyoto.


Hakan


At 03:29 AM 11/19/2004, you wrote:

on 11/18/04 6:14 PM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


>
> and US is about to waste 4 more years on Bush. LOL (instead of tears)
>


I really hope the EU will "pick up some of the slack" that
the US will be abrogating these next few years. Taking a leadership
role in combatting global warming is a good start. Paying for all
their oil in euros (and using much less) would be good, and also
actively boycotting american goods.

SOMEBODY has to be the grown-up here -- Bush won't do it, Blair
seems to be in Bush's pocket. Putin has his own problems. Doesn't
anybody want the job?  -K



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[Biofuel] What Is Butanol?

2004-11-19 Thread Paul Sheley


stumbled upon a few references to Butanol. I read what little info there was 
on it, and they claim that it is more miscible(?right spelling?) than 
ethanol with gasoline and less with water. I read some vague remarks about 
using Corn Steep Liqour to produce it. My question is, what are butanol and 
corn steep liquor, and do they have any potential to be used as a gasoline 
additive, as ethanol is? Anyone with any info on this would really be 
appreciated. Thank you very much ~ Paul



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[Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread DB

So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the millions of 
"Jesus Freakos" Who haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even is.So now 
we have to suffer through 4 more years of reality  as expressed through the 
George "the Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough Environmental Damage has 
stirred the sleeping masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will be more 
pro environmental.Personally  I think the religious right is a very big problem 
to over comeDB
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Re: [Biofuel] washing

2004-11-19 Thread DB


to settle out any soap. and you can heat it up slightly to help release the 
remaining water..DB
- Original Message - 
From: "fox mulder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] washing



Hi all,

I have made biodiesel from wvo. The product appears
clearer without washing. When I washed it the
biodiesel became murky. After several washes it
remained murky. can someone tell me what the problem
is?

fox



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Re: [Biofuel] washing

2004-11-19 Thread fox mulder

 --- DHAJOGLO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> can someone tell me what the problem
> >is?
> 
> Are you letting it settle for a good chunck of time?
>  It is probably water suspended in the fuel.  Is the
> fuel cold (say around or below 10 deg c?).
> 
> -dave
> 
I allowed it to settle for a few days. Cloudy
suspension occured when i washed with water. So, it is
likely to be a soap suspension. I added 15 drops of
phosphoric acid to change soap to FA's. But it did not
make any difference.
However, the biodiesel burns alright. I also a
biodiesel using a fresh rapseed oil. It is much
clearer and yellow in colour where SWO is brown in
colour.

fox
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Peggy

Hello Nat,

The biofuels list is quite varied in personal philosophical concepts.
Personal beliefs alter our reality to a greater degree than most are
willing to admit.  Keeping a world view of hope and global enrichment
includes a clear vision of how to move in that direction and can surpass
studious predictions.  I have faith in the creativity, ingenuity, and
comfort impetus innate in mankind to allow us to enter another golden
age--one where contemplative time is greater than worry time.  I have
personally found that the greatest study on how beliefs effect our past,
present and future lies in the works of Jane Roberts and the Seth
Material.  By changing beliefs, we change our reality... and sometimes
it takes a smack in the face to get our beliefs up to reasonable
reflectivity.  The beautiful thing is that we usually get "proof" of
what we are looking for.  S... finding solutions rather than
focusing on problems is my path toward the light. 

N: Subject: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions
Dear List,
Since reading Matt Savinar's book "Life After the Oil Crash" 
But in the meantime, I wanted to ask everyone some more general
questions 

P: Validation of concepts is evident in a great many people's beliefs
thereby creating a shared reality.  Media potentiates or mesmerizes the
masses into shared beliefs--as well as peer pressure and family values.
This discussion may impact others making them either stronger or giving
the power to remove bias--or not.

N: According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time 

P: The meaning of Jehovah according to some ancient text is "That which
is, was, and ever more shall be."
Seth says: All time is simultaneous. The point of power is in the
present.
You can take it from there.  The NOW thing to do/ think/ feel effects
the "whole" more than the past or the future. Whatever vision one holds
for the future will influence that future.  And by understanding this
concept, I choose to find ways to help my fellow man live in harmony
with nature and other humans. (Separating nature from humans is
arbitrary.)

N: So my next question is: where do the Peak Oil predictions fit within
the 
context of the mystical sages of this world ? Has anyone consulted any 
sages/prophets/mystics to see where they see the universe headed?

P: The protestant revolution was based on man's ability to communicate
directly with the universal center (mind/ God/ nature/ or by whatever
definition you choose to call All-that-is.)  Therefore, the sages/
prophets/ and mystics are examples of dedicated souls who displayed
their art.  You too have the potential to be one of these if you believe
you can.

N: Essentially my questions are the same. Where does Peak Oil's vision
of 
catastrophic world wars, death, & destruction fit within the assumption 
that the universe's underlying goal is Good? That humanity's direction
is 
towards higher consciousness? That we are not "bacteria on a petri dish"

but rather highly evolved creatures that have a tremendous capacity 
towards the Supramental 

P: I, for one, will simply not create the reality of living in a Petri
dish.  Dancing through the cracks in and out of the cosmic egg is a lot
more fun than falling victim to negative beliefs.  Seth also states that
victims agree to "suffer" their fate.  It is always a choice--believe it
or not.

N: I look forward to hearing any insights you all may have.

Thanks
Nat

Best wishes,
Peggy

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[Biofuel] alternative energy and the bad word

2004-11-19 Thread info



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics

Hi all,
 
 I have been thinking of starting this group for some time.
 Politics and alt.energy is a sensitive subject and this
 community is a good place for all the political energy discussions
 that clog up many other alternative energy news groups. 
 So here it is folks. Please feel free to post, vent, fume 
 or otherwise talk about this sometimes volatile subject in
 a non partisan forum. Please have respect for other members.
 No flaming or personal insults will be acceptable, however
 proactive discussions on alternative energy politics are welcome.
 
 regards

 tallex


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Re: [Biofuel] alternative energy and the bad word

2004-11-19 Thread Legal Eagle


Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "info" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] alternative energy and the bad word





http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics

Hi all,

I have been thinking of starting this group for some time.
Politics and alt.energy is a sensitive subject and this
community is a good place for all the political energy discussions
that clog up many other alternative energy news groups. 
So here it is folks. Please feel free to post, vent, fume 
or otherwise talk about this sometimes volatile subject in

a non partisan forum. Please have respect for other members.
No flaming or personal insults will be acceptable, however
proactive discussions on alternative energy politics are welcome.

regards

tallex


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RE: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Tim Ferguson

Ken,

on 11/18/04 6:14 PM, Hakan Falk at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


>
> and US is about to waste 4 more years on Bush.
LOL (instead of tears)
>


I really hope the EU will "pick up some of the
slack" that
the US will be abrogating these next few years.
Taking a leadership
role in combatting global warming is a good start.
Paying for all
their oil in euros (and using much less) would be
good, and also
actively boycotting american goods.

SOMEBODY has to be the grown-up here -- Bush won't
do it, Blair
seems to be in Bush's pocket. Putin has his own
problems. Doesn't
anybody want the job?  -K

I think France would like the Job. And I for one
would like to see them give it a go.

Best wishes,

Tim

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Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread fox mulder

 --- DB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was
> beat out by the millions of "Jesus Freakos" Who
> haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even
> is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of
> reality  as expressed through the George "the
> Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough
> Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping
> masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will
> be more pro environmental.Personally  I think the
> religious right is a very big problem to over
> comeDB

Furthermore, evangelical right  is pro isreal, in the
belief that iseal will blow up the Axa mosque in east
jeruselem. This willl bring about the restoration of
the temple Suleman built ( which is a myth). The
evangelical christians believe that this will set up
the conditions for the comng of messiah.

fox 




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re: [Biofuel] What Is Butanol?

2004-11-19 Thread DHAJOGLO

> My question is, what are butanol and

Butanol is fourth in the chain of alcohols:

The first is Methanol (meth) CH3OH
The second is Ethanol (eth)  CH3CH2OH
The third is Propanol (prop) CH3CH2CH2OH
The fourth it Butanol (but)  CH3CH2CH2CH2OH

Are you seeing a pattern?  Those prefixes also relate to other similar 
compounds such as methane, ethane, propane, butane...


check this link for some information on some solubilities of these alcohols:

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/2organic/alcohols.html#hydro


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Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread btmd

I remember something in Revelations about the antichrist not being
revealed until the middle of his seventh year.  I figure this means some
major ethical scandal for "W" in July 2007.  If that happens, I might even
become a believer.

Brian

>  --- DB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was
>> beat out by the millions of "Jesus Freakos" Who
>> haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even
>> is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of
>> reality  as expressed through the George "the
>> Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough
>> Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping
>> masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will
>> be more pro environmental.Personally  I think the
>> religious right is a very big problem to over
>> comeDB
>
> Furthermore, evangelical right  is pro isreal, in the
> belief that iseal will blow up the Axa mosque in east
> jeruselem. This willl bring about the restoration of
> the temple Suleman built ( which is a myth). The
> evangelical christians believe that this will set up
> the conditions for the comng of messiah.
>
> fox
>
>
>
>
>  ___
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>> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
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>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Concession speech

2004-11-19 Thread btmd

Huh??

Whose concession speech are you referring to here?

Brian

> In a message dated 11/17/2004 10:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, Red America. I'm
> talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping,
> inbred drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped
> grade-school grads. Vote for me, I truly believe that I can help your
> smug,
> sorry asses.
> &&
> Not a nice way to win friends  Someone told her friend she could not
> make
> up her mind on who to vote for.  The friend said if she was undecided
> about
> the men to vote for the wife.  I guess that's what a lot of people did.
> Bill W
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Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread Appal Energy


Methodist push in the early 1990's and writings from those such as Thomas 
Berry in the Catholic sector. But overall, don't expect any miracles of 
divine revelation coming out of the vestibules anymore than out of the white 
house.


Unfortunately for everyone, the vast majority of the masses in the Christian 
wing, are still largely clueless relative to environmental issues (as is a 
large sector of the population) or none too concerned because "God will sort 
it out." The end times are just a stepping stone to their Nirvana, which 
essentially places little to no responsibility on their shoulders. 
Stewardship, even if its failure means destroying human life bit by bit and 
eventually what their god created, is not exactly a primary concern in the 
Christian mindset.


Few seem to understand that there is no difference between pumping poisons 
into an environment which steals the health and/or lives of others, or 
monopolistic abuse of resources which contribute to or are the cause of much 
social/global strife and/or death, and pulling the trigger on a gun pointed 
at someone's head.


Largely why many people step out of the bible thumping business. Rampant 
blindness and patent hypocrisy.


Murder is murder. The method doesn't absolve anyone.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "DB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 2:54 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.


So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the millions 
of "Jesus Freakos" Who haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even is.So 
now we have to suffer through 4 more years of reality  as expressed through 
the George "the Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough Environmental Damage 
has stirred the sleeping masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will 
be more pro environmental.Personally  I think the religious right is a very 
big problem to over comeDB

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RE: [Biofuel] What Is Butanol?

2004-11-19 Thread Juan Boveda

Hello.
Butanol is an organic alcohol, its alcoholic moiety is attached on an 
alcane (no doble bond) derived compound of 4 carbon atoms.
It occurs in 3 configuration depending where the alcohol group -OH is 
located:
First carbon atom of the chain (called n-Butanol, 1-Butanol or n-butyl 
alcohol)
Second carbon of the chain, that is 2-Butanol, sec-Butanol or sec-Butyl 
alcohol
On a carbon atom that has 3 bonds to other carbon atoms (a cross 
configuration) is called terc-Butanol.
The most commoly used is the 1-Butanol, this resembles the shape of the 
ethanol with 2 more carbon atoms forming a chain.
Formula: CH3--CH2--CH2--CH2OH
Physical data:
Vapor pressure(20 oC) = 6.7 mbar
Specific Density (20 oC) = 0.81 g/ml
Flash point  = 30 oC
Explosion limits = 1.4 - 11.3 volume%
Water solubility (20 oC) = 79 g/litre
M = 74.12 g/mol
Boiling point = 117.2 oC
Ignition temp = 340 oC
Max Alloable Conc = 100 ml/m3
Do not drink this alcohol.

Merck cathalog number: 1-Butanol for analisis  101990
1-Butanol for synthesis = 822262
More data in:

http://www.merck.de

http://www.chemdat.de

It can be produced by synthesis from petroleum or from food using 
fermentation.
Some microorganism in industrial fermentations use corn step liquor and 
suggars or other good broth materials produce butanol and other compouds as 
a waste of their energy cicle (a byproduct) from maltose, glucose or 
sacharose, like ethanol production from many Saccharomyces species, 
specially when growing without air.
Regards.

Juan

-Mensaje original-
De: Paul Sheley [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Viernes 19 de Noviembre de 2004 1:49 AM
Para:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: [Biofuel] What Is Butanol?

In my quest for all the knowledge i can find on ethanol production, i
stumbled upon a few references to Butanol. I read what little info there 
was
on it, and they claim that it is more miscible(?right spelling?) than
ethanol with gasoline and less with water. I read some vague remarks about
using Corn Steep Liqour to produce it. My question is, what are butanol and 
corn steep liquor, and do they have any potential to be used as a gasoline
additive, as ethanol is? Anyone with any info on this would really be
appreciated. Thank you very much ~ Paul


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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Gustl Steiner-Zehender

Hallo Nat,

I  personally  think  that  the destination is the important thing and
that  as  long as the vehicle and path to the destination is peaceful,
friendly to people and the environment, and does no harm that they are
not  so  important.   If  astrology and the other things you mentioned
work for you to those ends then have at it brother.

Welcome to the list.

Happy Happy,

Gustl

Thursday, 18 November, 2004, 17:57:20, you wrote:

...snip...

NR>  here are some more "cosmic"
NR> questions that I was hoping some people on this list may have some 
NR> interesting thoughts on:

NR>   Despite the obvious trends in global politics that are very much inline 
NR> with Peak Oil's predictions, there is also a global counter-trend, which 
NR> is inline with mystic predictions of "evolution of consciousness": more 
NR> people are spending more time learning meditation, self-awareness, dietary 
NR> changes, & spiritual searches. This is not the "organized religion" 
NR> mentioned in the recent thread on fascism. This is personal, mystical 
NR> journeys. It is a widespread phenomonon worldwide.
NR> -  According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time that is very 
NR> conducive towards the unification of humanity. This began last June 6th 
NR> with the Venus Transit and will last till June 2012. This time period was 
NR> predicted by ancient Mayan texts as a very important time for humanity. 
NR> See: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ or 
NR> 
http://www.awakening-healing.com/A-HNewsLetters/2004/Venus_Transit_KW_404.htm
NR> Has anyone in the Peak Oil community done any astrological inquiries as to 
NR> the trend of the planet? Are we really headed towards the doom and mass 
NR> dying that is predicted, according to Astrologists ?

NR> - According to Hindu/Yogic metaphysics, the universe moves through periods 
NR> of light and dark. There are 4 distinct stages (in order of evil -> 
NR> truth):
NR> 1) Kali Yuga 2) Dwapara Yuga 3) Treta Yuga 4) Satya Yuga
NR> Many believe that we have already entered Dwapara Yuga. Some believe we 
NR> are still in Kali Yuga. Everyone is certain that we are on the upswing of 
NR> this cycle, meaning that we are headed towards greater truth & 
NR> consciousness in all realms of the world.
NR> (http://baharna.com/karma/yuga.htm)
NR> So my next question is : where do the Peak Oil predictions fit within the 
NR> context of the mystical sages of this world ? Has anyone consulted any 
NR> sages/prophets/mystics to see where they see the universe headed ?

NR> Essentially my questions are the same. Where does Peak Oil's vision of 
NR> catastrophic world wars, death, & destruction fit within the assumption 
NR> that the universe's underlying goal is Good? That humanity's direction is 
NR> towards higher consciousness? That we are not "bacteria on a petri dish" 
NR> but rather highly evolved creatures that have a tremendous capacity 
NR> towards the Supramental 
NR> (http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Supramental_Descent/id/1933) ?


NR> Please note that I am not a subscriber to any one belief system or 
NR> theory. I am, like anyone else, just trying to figure out whats going on 
NR> with the universe through whatever means possible.

NR> I look forward to hearing any insights you all may have.

NR> Thanks

NR> Nat

-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
Mitglied-Team AMIGA
ICQ: 22211253-Gustli

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, 
da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] Concession speech

2004-11-19 Thread DHAJOGLO

This was originally a sarcastic post about what the first draft of kerry's 
consession speech looked like.  Bill W. then commented that he didn't care for 
the sarchastic tone pointing out that the "nicer" candidate (or rather his 
wife) is what provided a reason for his friend to vote for GWB.

>
>Huh??
>
>Whose concession speech are you referring to here?
>
>Brian
>
>> In a message dated 11/17/2004 10:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>> So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, Red America. I'm
>> talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-
>> sorry asses.

...
>> &&
>> Not a nice way to win friends  Someone told her friend she could not
>> make
>> up her mind on who to vote for.  The friend said if she was undecided
>> about
>> the men to vote for the wife.  I guess that's what a lot of people did.


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RE: [Biofuel] Powerdown

2004-11-19 Thread Peggy

Hello Haken,

It's never too late.  There will always be solutions...however, the
problems may compound before the masses agree to institute their
personal self-discipline.  The way of the future has to come from
individuals rather than governments.  Visualize tremors (as a possible
mind-set) instead of upheavals, please.  It's not us against the
world--we are creating our own reality personally and collectively.
Celebrating the good can do as much or more good than damning the bad.
It feels good to feel good.

Peggy

H:  My opinion is that it will not be possible to avoid
significant upheavals, but there are many actions that can minimize the
effects of them. It becomes a timing issue and we are already too late.

Hakan

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[Biofuel] hybrid vehicles

2004-11-19 Thread Todd Wootton

Is there such a thing as a hybrid diesel vehicle. Everything that I read about 
is of hybrid with internal cumbustion but we all know that diesel cars are much 
more fuel efficient. if we were to combine that with the extra fuel savings of 
a diesel vehicle and we use the biodiesel.-wow
Todd Wootton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Office (905)473-5646
Cellular (705)794-1264
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[Biofuel] UK failures over climate change

2004-11-19 Thread MH

 Greens declare war on Blair for
 'failures' over climate change
 By Marie Woolf, Chief Political Correspondent
 19 Nov 2004
 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=584399

 Britain's leading environmental organisation withdrew support from
 Tony Blair yesterday over climate change, saying he could not be
 trusted to reduce global warming.

 Greenpeace expressed doubts about the Prime Minister's
 sincerity over tackling climate change, adding that his
 record on tackling carbon emissions was "pathetic". 

 The attack by Stephen Tindale, the Labour-supporting head of
 Greenpeace, came as Mr Blair and Jacques Chirac, the
 French President, said that climate change would be
 "one of the two priorities" for the G8 group of
 leading industrialised nations when Britain assumed the
 presidency next year. The Prime Minister has made
 tackling global warming a key theme of his tenure in office. 

 Leading environmentalists joined forces yesterday to criticise
 Mr Blair's record, accusing him of spin while failing to
 support measures to reduce carbon emissions from cars and planes. 

 They also accused him of not doing enough to promote energy
 efficiency measures in the building of new homes. 

 Mr Tindale, a former government special adviser on the
 environment who played a key role in framing Labour's policy
 on climate change, said Mr Blair "cannot be trusted to resist
 industry lobbying" from car manufacturers and airlines. "On the
 climate change issues we have been very supportive of the
 Government. We have been essentially trying to work with them
 to promote renewable energy. But we have basically taken a
 conscious decision that he [Tony Blair] can no longer be
 given the benefit of the doubt," he said. "So far Blair's
 record on climate change is almost entirely a record of
 fine words and no action. His repeated failures on this
 issue is undermining his diplomatic efforts." 

 Greenpeace's change of policy follows a series of meetings
 within the organisation which one figure said amounted to "a
 declaration of war". The decision to criticise Mr Blair openly
 over climate change follows the Government's attempts to block
 energy-efficiency targets in social housing which would help
 prevent global warming and save lives and to
 dilute emissions trading targets. 

 It also follows Downing Street's decision to "allow industry to
 emit as much carbon in future as it has in the past". 

 Mr Tindale, Greenpeace's executive director, said Mr Blair's
 reheated "tub-thumping speeches" on the world stage were
 undermined by his "failed" record in Britain. 

 "Emissions of carbon dioxide have actually increased since Blair
 became Prime Minister. So much for leadership. Through all this,
 Blair kept on giving the speeches and we kept on trying to believe
 him, perhaps for too long. We are now going to mobilise a lot more
 public pressure against them.'' 

 He said the Prime Minister's "rhetoric" on wanting to tackle climate
 change bore no relation to his record. World leaders would "laugh at
 Tony Blair" because of his dismal record on reducing carbon
 emissions at home, Mr Tindale said. "They have completely failed on
 road transport and failed to control emissions from air transport.
 They are in complete denial." 

 Carbon emissions have been increasing and experts have warned
 Britain will not meet its target of reducing them by 20 per cent below
 1990 levels by 2010. There are also fears that the Government may
 try to water down the target in the next few weeks when it publishes
 its "review" of its policy. 

 Tony Juniper, the executive director of Friends of the Earth, said
 there was a gaping "gap" between the Prime Minister's rhetoric and
 leadership on the world stage and his record in the UK. "The
 leadership position of this country is jeopardised by the position
 at home," he said. 

 "The credibility of this country on climate change is essentially
 derived from the policy choices taken by the Conservatives in the
 1980s when they decided to shift from coal to gas generation." 

 Charles Secrett, the former head of Friends of the Earth who now
 heads ACT, a sustainable development campaign group, said Mr
 Blair was "all talk and no action". 

 "Blair thinks he can get away with boosting his green credentials by
 making a big speech every year on climate change," he said. "It's
 always about the grand scenario and when it comes to putting his
 own house in order it is always business as usual." 

 Britain's environmental leaders called on Mr Blair last night to restore
 their trust by pledging a crackdown on car and plane emissions and
 the introduction of tax incentives to go green, when he publishes his
 climate change review. 

 Mr Juniper said: "We need to shift away from road building and
 encouraging car use. We need to bring in fiscal incentives to
 switch away from coal to renewable energy." 

 Mr Tindale, who was aspecial adviser to Michael Meacher, a former
 environm

[Biofuel] UK Can we stop global warming?

2004-11-19 Thread MH

 Can we stop global warming?
 http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=3739

 Climate change is a growing threat to our survival. Andrew Stone
 argues that the solution is not a world away, but another world

 NEW LABOUR has discovered an ingenious method for dealing with
 climate change÷increasing the amount of greenhouse gases
 Britain can produce. 

 By a happy coincidence, this is exactly what big business was
 lobbying for. The only minor drawback with this approach is that
 our environment will continue to go to hell in a handcart. 

 To see why, we donât need a crystal ball÷just a sober assessment
 of the damage already taking place. In the 20th century, the
 earthâs average surface temperature rose by 0.6 degrees centigrade.

 Not overly worrying, you might think. But the climate is a
 delicate thing. According to the United Nations Environment
 Programme, that seemingly small rise meant that the number of
 people affected by climate disasters went from 740 million in
 the 1970s to two billion in the 1990s. 

 Such threats are many and diverse. They include more flooding and
 landslides as sea levels rise. The increase in heat-related
 deaths, such as the estimated 35,000 people killed in Europe
 during last summerâs heatwave, is another example.

 But a hotter world is also a more unpredictable world. A world
 with more energy pinging around our climate like a manic pinball
 machine. A world where long established weather patterns are
 disrupted, and the social systems built around them are thrown
 into chaos.

 So in the Sahel region of Africa average rainfall has fallen by
 a quarter in the last 30 years. The Tuareg people in Niger, whose
 society has been nomadic for millennia, have been forced to
 establish ãfixation pointsä in order to survive.

 And regions dependent on the monsoon for paddy cultivation are
 living in fear that our brave new world will send the rains
 elsewhere.

 Other parts of the world have suffered from a supercharged
 El Nino cycle, which powered devastating hurricanes in the
 Americas. 

 More heat will also mean the spread of water-borne diseases
 such as malaria. Diarrhoea, which kills nearly two million children
 per year already, will become even more devastating. This is just
 a taste of what we can expect in the coming years. The
 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) predicts a
 temperature rise of 5.8 degrees centigrade in the next century if
 we take a ãbusiness as usualä approach.

 There was a similarly rapid climate shift of 6 degrees centigrade
 some 250 million years ago. Itâs known as the Permian Extinction.
 Between 90 and 95 percent of the earthâs species were wiped out.

 Then volcanoes were the major cause. This time round industryâs
 tendency to burn fossil fuels such as oil, coal and gas is the
 culprit. Atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide, the main
 greenhouse gas, are a third above pre-industrial amounts and
 rising fast.

 A generation after discovering this peril, our governments are
 still putting short term profit over the future of life on earth.
 In 1992 they finally decided that something needed to be done. 

 Five years later they launched the Kyoto treaty, which said
 what they would do, which wasnât very much. This year, after
 seven years of haggling, Russia put pen to paper and
 Kyoto came into force.

 Kyoto committed the industrialised countries to an average
 5.2 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from
 1990 levels by the end of this decade. 

 This compares to the 60-80 percent reduction that the IPCC
 reckons is necessary by 2050. This would prevent a rise of
 over 2 degrees centigrade. 

 ãSure, itâs not enough,ä our governments admitted. ãBut
 be pragmatic,ä they said. ãWeâll get the principle accepted
 and move on from there.ä

 Infamously the US÷responsible for more than a quarter of the
 worldâs greenhouse gas emissions÷never accepted the principle. 

 Republican and Democratic senators alike lined up to condemn it
 long before George W Bush entered the White House. The US now
 produces 15 percent more carbon dioxide than in 1990.

 But the signatories have done little better.
 Britainâs emissions are creeping up, and
 only four countries in the EU are on track to
 achieve their modest targets. 

 Japan, rather than reduce its emissions by the required
 6 percent, has allowed them to rise by 11 percent.
 Indiaâs emissions are thought to have increased by half.

 What can explain such criminal negligence? Capitalism, in short.
 If that sounds crude, consider how many industries have a
 stake in the status quo.

 How many produce waste they donât want to pay for,
 who use oil because itâs cheapest,
 who transport goods halfway around the world to
 find the most lucrative market?

 Consider the fact that petrol-derived plastics are everywhere.
 Think about how difficult it is to get a car, a CD or a computer
 repaired. Repairs just arenât as profitable as replacements.
 Not unless you val

RE: [Biofuel] hybrid vehicles

2004-11-19 Thread Mel Riser

Not that I know of, but there is a hybrid boat drive system for Sailboats.

Solomon Technologies uses an electric motor that is driven by a diesel 
generator.

It also charges the batteries when you are sailing by turning the motor and 
generating electricity.

You should see the fuel consumption stats.

It uses HALF the fuel a conventional sailboat with the same power does.

mel

-Original Message-
From: Todd Wootton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] hybrid vehicles


Is there such a thing as a hybrid diesel vehicle. Everything that I read about 
is of hybrid with internal cumbustion but we all know that diesel cars are much 
more fuel efficient. if we were to combine that with the extra fuel savings of 
a diesel vehicle and we use the biodiesel.-wow Todd Wootton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Home Office (905)473-5646
Cellular (705)794-1264
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Re: [Biofuel] Peak Oil & Cosmic Questions

2004-11-19 Thread Keith Addison




Dear List,

Since reading Matt Savinar's book "Life After the Oil Crash" my eyes 
have been opened to a whole new way of looking at current events.

(http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

Intuitively, I had believed and sensed many of the things discussed 
in the book, but this integrated all the various facts into one 
whole which is drastically affecting my actions.


It is a direct result of reading that book that I am now subscribed 
to this list, reading the archives, and learning about all kinds of 
exciting projects. I am looking for a used Diesel car and plan on 
making my own BD ASAP. You will probably see some emails from me in 
the near future asking all kinds of "newbie" questions as I embark 
on this exciting journey.


But in the meantime, I wanted to ask everyone some more general 
questions relating to Peak Oil and your perceptions/opinions.

To the credit of
people like Matt Savinar and others who are spreading the word about 
Peak Oil, their "alarmist" tone and gloomy predictions shock the 
ignorant out of their seats and instigate (hopefully positive) 
change. However, to their fault, that very same tone of alarm and 
doom-prophecy seems to be lacking a level-headed "quality" which 
takes into account the great capacity humanity has to elevate itself 
to do great things.


Indeed. We discussed it here previously. This is what I said about it 
at the time:



http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/downloads.html

Free until US elections


Yeah... squealing like a junkie faced with cold turkey. Too much of 
Die-off Jay Hanson's influence, not nearly enough of the sort of 
approach you often see from people here, eg what Hakan says about 
energy waste, what Todd and others say about localisation of energy 
supply, what many say about the need to reduce energy use and 
improve energy efficiency, what me and others say about sustainable 
farming and energy supply, and what we all know about how 
"seriously", if that's quite the word (it's not), our governments 
truly take sustainable energy. They haven't even really started to 
think about it yet, beyond starting to make what they hope might be 
the right kind of grunting noises.


I suppose it has some sort of internal coherence - makes sense if 
you read it through a keyhole maybe. I guess it's worth the price.


Best

Keith


The whole thread is here, if you'd like to read it:

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/39562/1

Some discussion, but not of the sort of questions you're asking.

So, while I see the point of the Peak Oil argument and am doing some 
things about it


Well... To go back to the junkie comparison above, would the best 
reason for quitting heroin be an impending shortage of supply? There 
are other and better reasons, no? Such as that it will probably kill 
you, and surely ruin your life.


I cross-posted an interview with Adam Porter the other day, in which 
he answered a question I've asked here about Peak Oil, with some 
scepticism:



GNN: How much oil is left?

Porter: This is indeed the correct question to ask as I would expect 
from GNN. No one knows.


See:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002959.html
[Biofuel] Peak Oil: A Reality Check

(not to mention telling everyone I know), here are some more 
"cosmic" questions that I was hoping some people on this list may 
have some interesting thoughts on:


Despite the obvious trends in global politics that are very much 
inline with Peak Oil's predictions, there is also a global 
counter-trend, which is inline with mystic predictions of "evolution 
of consciousness": more people are spending more time learning 
meditation, self-awareness, dietary changes, & spiritual searches.


... as they (we) were 40 years ago too. Seems to go in cycles - there 
was a war then, there's a war now. Sure, there's more to it than 
that, more to it than oil too. The key event or fact that 
precipitates a major change is often an imponderable even after the 
event. Perhaps more often it's a juxtaposition of many events, no use 
picking on a last straw to blame. Too complicated to predict, though 
perhaps not to intuit, or to divine.


This is not the "organized religion" mentioned in the recent thread 
on fascism. This is personal, mystical journeys. It is a widespread 
phenomonon worldwide.
-  According to some astrologers, we are in a window of time that is 
very conducive towards the unification of humanity. This began last 
June 6th with the Venus Transit and will last till June 2012. This 
time period was predicted by ancient Mayan texts as a very important 
time for humanity. See: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ or 
http://www.awakening-healing.com/A-HNewsLetters/2004/Venus_Transit_KW_ 
404.htm
Has anyone in the Peak Oil community done any astrological inquiries 
as to the trend of the planet? Are we really headed towards the doom 
and mass dying that is predicted, according to Astrologists ?


- According to Hindu/Yogic metaphysics, the universe moves t

Re: [Biofuel] hybrid vehicles

2004-11-19 Thread Keith Addison



Is there such a thing as a hybrid diesel vehicle. Everything that I 
read about is of hybrid with internal cumbustion but we all know 
that diesel cars are much more fuel efficient. if we were to combine 
that with the extra fuel savings of a diesel vehicle and we use the 
biodiesel.-wow


See PNGV:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/?keywords=PNGV&time=all&usertime 
=2002-12-31

Information Archive at NNYTech

From previous:


The three vehicles developed in the US by the Big Three under the
abandoned PNGV program all achieved 80mpg and they were all
diesel-electric hybrids. There are some details here:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
Do diesels have a future?

Do an archive search for "PNGV" if you want an interesting read:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

This is a good place to start:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30857/


Best wishes

Keith



Todd Wootton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Office (905)473-5646
Cellular (705)794-1264


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Re: [Biofuel] best processor for campus co-op?

2004-11-19 Thread TampaPing

why don't you folks look at filtration systems 
yes they cost a couple of dollars..it is 2004 and not 1966
 if we can afford a diesel motor, lets spend a couple of dollars,  remember 
the oil free,lets not beat ourselves up to refine it 
i run 81 rabbit everyday on 60 -40 mix 
 60 being waste oil 
  40 diesel fuel 
anybody filtering out there?
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RE: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread Peggy

Well DB, now that you have your target, we could set up awareness and
educational programs in the churches.  They could sell biodiesel by the
gallon as fundraisers.  "Grease the Palm" could be the motto with
glistening palm leaves dripping with veggie oil.  Actually, they could
start collection centers for all their spent oil and have fundraisers to
"Clean for Christ" and make the earth a better place for all.  (My
apologies for this tongue-in-cheek message to my Christian friends whose
devout understanding is a model for excellent qualities to emulate.  The
bigoted ones will roast in their beliefs anyway.)  Next problem?

Best wishes,
Peggy

Subject: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the
millions of "Jesus Freakos" Who haven't a clue  of what the hell
Biodiesel even is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of
reality  as expressed through the George "the Weasel" Bush Machine.I
think not enough Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping masses.
Maybe the next presidential candidate will be more pro
environmental.Personally  I think the religious right is a very big
problem to over comeDB

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[Biofuel] US factory farms exemption for pollution

2004-11-19 Thread bob allen




http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/factory_farms.cfm


 Factory Farms Want Exemption from Air Pollution Laws

From Sierra Club 9/24/03


Bush Administration Nearing Deal to Weaken Protections for Communities 
Near Factory Farms


WASHINGTON - September 24 - Newly obtained documents from the 
Environmental Protection Agency reveal that the Bush Administration is 
formalizing a back-room deal with the livestock and poultry industries 
that would let giant factory farm polluters off the hook for violations 
of the Clean Air Act and the Superfund hazardous waste law that have 
protected communities for decades. With this new incriminating evidence 
in hand, the Sierra Club, Natural Resources Defense Council, and Center 
on Race, Poverty and the Environment filed a lawsuit today under the 
Freedom of Information Act, demanding that the Bush Administration 
divulge information about its closed negotiations with the meat industry.


"Be it Vice President Cheney's Energy Task Force or this back-room deal 
for the meat and milk industries,the Bush Administration continues to 
let polluters write the rules while leaving the public out of the 
process," said Ken Midkiff of the Sierra Club.


In May, environmental groups obtained an industry letter documenting 
clandestine negotiations with the Bush Administration to shield giant 
factory farms from the requirements of the Clean Air Act and Superfund 
hazardous-waste laws. Since then, the Bush Administration has been 
working on a deal that would allow factory farms to continue polluting 
without any threat of prosecution.


The Bush Administration has rebuffed environmental groups' requests for 
information about the closed-door meetings, claiming that it has "not 
entered into any 'safe harbor' agreement." However, environmental groups 
recently obtained a copy of the supposedly non-existent agreement. 
According to that draft, the Administration would allow the meat and 
milk industries to ignore clean air and hazardous waste laws 
indefinitely, asking only that industry "monitor" its emissions.


The Bush Administration has persistently refused to address pollution 
from factory farms, which concentrate thousands of animals in a single 
location and release enormous quantities of harmful pollutants. And Utah 
Mike Leavitt, nominated by President Bush to head the Environmental 
Protection Agency, has a history of favoring polluting agricultural 
interests; as governor of Utah, Mr. Leavitt helped to pass a law 
preventing citizens from bringing state suits against agricultural 
businesses.


"Exempting animal factories from basic environmental laws like the Clean 
Air Act would put thousands of communities at risk," said Brent Newell 
of the Center on Race, Poverty and the Environment. "Instead of 
protecting those communities, the Bush Administration is working to 
protect polluters from the laws that safeguard the public welfare."


A copy of the draft agreement, the meat industry's memo proposing the 
amnesty agreement, the environmental groups request for enforcement 
actions, as well as other relevant documents can be found here.




--
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob 
--

-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG 



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Re: [Biofuel] Concession speech

2004-11-19 Thread damiandolan

hi All,

seem Mrs Bushes cookie recepie was more appealing...

dD




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

<  
<  In a message dated 11/17/2004 10:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
<  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<  
<  So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, Red America. I'm
<  talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping,
<  inbred drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped
<  grade-school grads. Vote for me, I truly believe that I can help your smug, 
<  sorry asses.
<  &&
<  Not a nice way to win friends  Someone told her friend she could not 
make 
<  up her mind on who to vote for.  The friend said if she was undecided about 
<  the men to vote for the wife.  I guess that's what a lot of people did.   
Bill W
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[Biofuel] Texas Declaratin of Energy Independance

2004-11-19 Thread Mel Riser

The Texas Renewable Energy Industries Association http://www.treia.org had it's 
20th annual meeting this past week and we also had the First Texas Renewable 
Energy Congress.

Delegates were asked to draft a Declaration of Energy Independence.

I was a delegate and helped massage some of the language and was also a signer.

I have attached it as a PDF because it's prints out beautifully,

But will also try and post just the words.

mel

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[Biofuel] Text of the PDF

2004-11-19 Thread Mel Riser

Declaration of Sustainability 

 

Presented by the Texas Clean Energy Congress

November 15, 2004 Austin, Texas 

 

The Earth is our home and its environment sustains life. We lament that today 
human society is using resources and creating waste on Earth at a rate that is 
destructive to the health of the planet and all life upon it. Extraction, 
production and consumption of energy and their resulting pollution

constitute a large part of this problem. Renewable energy, energy effi ciency 
and conservation can

solve many problems and are necessary elements for a sustainable future.

Th e First Texas Clean Energy Congress envisions a Texas responsibly powered by 
its sustainable, renewable

energy resource base. Texas shall serve as a model to others in economic 
opportunities, advanced

technology, environmental justice, innovative government and respect for future 
generations.

We can change our current practices in ways that build a sustainable energy 
future and that will create

stronger communities, a healthier environment, and an economy that generates 
opportunity for all.

 

WHEREAS we have a responsibility to current and future generations,

WHEREAS the continued use of nuclear energy and of the limited supply of fossil 
fuels is adversely aff ecting

our climate, environment, health and national security,

WHEREAS current energy production and consumption patterns cause inequitable, 
unjust and disproportionate

adverse impacts especially on communities and people least able to overcome 
them,

WHEREAS the technologies of energy effi ciency and renewable energy are 
accessible and continue to advance,

WHEREAS sustainable energy is one part of a holistic approach that encompasses 
many other strategies

such as green building, recycling, responsible management of materials and 
existing fossil fuel resources,

improved manufacturing processes, design for the environment, and energy effi 
cient transportation,

WHEREAS Texas historically has demonstrated leadership in energy technologies 
and is uniquely positioned

to extend that leadership into development of clean and sustainable technology 
and energy resources,

WHEREAS Texas has the greatest resources in the United States for the 
development of renewable energy

and energy effi ciency which are more than suffi cient to meet our current and 
future needs,

And WHEREAS the natural environment of Texas is inherently good with its own 
value apart from its utility

to people,

BE IT RESOLVED THEREFORE, that this First Texas Clean Energy Congress calls for 
Texas to lead in this

historic time, and for Texas to lead in the transition to sustainable energy as 
we advance humankind.

We affirm that sustainable energy is energy that is reliable, clean and safe, 
and has positive impacts on the

economy, society and the environment.

We affirm that Texas’ energy production and use should contribute positively to 
the welfare of all creation.

We affirm that Texas should reduce energy and resource consumption through 
conservation and energy

effi ciency.

We affirm that Texas should proactively plan for and provide a robust 
infrastructure to maximize the integration

of sustainable energy.

We affirm that Texas should produce and export clean energy and clean energy 
technologies.

We affi rm that Texas should lead in the creation of a National Clean Energy 
Consortium to research, develop

and deploy cost-eff ective sustainable energy for the electric, industrial, 
building, and transportation

sectors.

We call for Texas to create the appropriate policies, programs and business 
climate to meet the majority of

its total energy needs with sustainable energy by the year 2020.

We call for our leaders to embrace the future of sustainable energy and make 
Texas the leader in sustainable

energy.

We further endorse this Sustainable Energy Bill of Rights for all Texans.

Sustainable Energy

Bill Of Rights 

1 All Texans have the right

to live in a sustainable clean environment today and in the future. 

2 All Texans have the right

to be protected by energy effi ciency codes and educated about energy savings 
options for their homes and businesses.

3 All Texans have the right

to participate in an open public process to determine how energy is produced in 
and for their communities.

4 All Texans have the right to purchase clean renewable energy from their 
electric provider at prices that

are reasonable and just and nondiscriminatory.

5 All Texans have the right

to produce sustainable energy for on-site use. 

6 All Texans who produce renewable energy have the right

to fair compensation for energy sold that refl ects the full value of that 
energy.

7 All Texans have the right

to access a means of transportation that runs on sustainable fuels. 

8 All Texans have the right

to know the environmental impacts of their ways of life, including purchasing 
and energy consumption decisions.

9 All Texans have the right

to enjoy the economi

[Biofuel] Neoteric Kits?

2004-11-19 Thread Dave Chameides

Anyone running a diesel on wvo using a neoteric kit?  IÕm about to do the
deal and trying to decide which way to go.  Would love to talk to someone
who has done one of these kits themselves.

Dave









 

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RE: [Biofuel] Powerdown

2004-11-19 Thread Hakan Falk


Peggy,

I do not understand "it is never to late", if you missed your train or bus, 
you were too late. It does not mean that you cannot take the next train or 
bus, or that you should maybe walk instead and take the opportunity to get 
exercise. Under all circumstances, you are likely to face some kind of 
consequences, whatever they are. I am not that concerned about the eventual 
consequences that US will face, since I live in EU and they seems to be a 
bit ahead on the issues and that is certainly worth to celebrate, as you 
suggest. Then, I can always move home to Sweden, who is way ahead of EU. 
The oil industry even officially complained about Sweden and came with some 
disguised threats about that the energy savings was going to far. LOL


I do not think that Iraq is only a tremor and if it is, I am getting afraid 
of what tremors US will try next. It is only the beginning of many global 
tremors, like military threats and execution of them. It is not unthinkable 
that it could lead to a WWIII, since EU, Russia and China are more and more 
getting in an opposite interest situation to US. At least there are a lot 
of people that lost their confidence with US and they are dumping the 
dollar as fast as possible. By all financial definitions, this have led to 
that US is quite close to both financial and moral bankruptcy and is 
rapidly losing whatever capital they had before in the eyes of the world. I 
find it sad, when so many other people of nations, voice the opinion that 
"US deserves it". The world is for sure changing, if you live outside US 
and can see it.


Hakan


At 04:32 PM 11/19/2004, you wrote:

Hello Haken,

It's never too late.  There will always be solutions...however, the
problems may compound before the masses agree to institute their
personal self-discipline.  The way of the future has to come from
individuals rather than governments.  Visualize tremors (as a possible
mind-set) instead of upheavals, please.  It's not us against the
world--we are creating our own reality personally and collectively.
Celebrating the good can do as much or more good than damning the bad.
It feels good to feel good.

Peggy

H:  My opinion is that it will not be possible to avoid
significant upheavals, but there are many actions that can minimize the
effects of them. It becomes a timing issue and we are already too late.

Hakan



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Re: [Biofuel] US factory farms exemption for pollution

2004-11-19 Thread Gustl Steiner-Zehender

Hallo Bob,

Friday, 19 November, 2004, 11:33:46, you wrote:

ba> the following does not bode well for those of  us in rural  US:
ba> http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/factory_farms.cfm
ba>   Factory Farms Want Exemption from Air Pollution Laws
...snip...

I  am  afraid  that  is  not  the  half  of it brother.  I live in the
southeastern  Michigan/northwestern  Ohio  area.   In a 20 mile radius
there  are at least 6 factory dairy farms with an average herd size of
2000  head of milking cattle.  Each cow produces AT LEAST 40 pounds of
manure  per  day which totals for ONE herd 29,200,000 pounds of manure
per year which is generally spread on the earth.  For some reason they
seem  to  be Dutch owned in this area in the main, not that that makes
any difference.

A  friend has a small farm which adjoins an 80 acre tract which one of
these  farms uses to "dispose" of its waste.  There are times when the
manure  is  some  4"  deep  and  the  stench  is nigh unto unbearable.
Nothing grows on that field.

The  upshot  of  this  is  that due to the high concentration of these
"farms" in the area the pollutants in the manure are working their way
into  our  water table.  Concomittant with this is the loss of revenue
by the small family farmer with small herds of, say, 100 head or less.
Some  dairies  are  refusing  to pick up milk from these small farmers
because  they  say  it  is "unprofitable" because they can get all the
milk  they need from the milk factories.  This is disrupting families,
the economy of the area and the environment of the entire region.  The
excuse  for this abuse is "the bottom line".  This is the greater good
our government speaks of apparently.

If  we  consider  that  this  is just one example in one contained and
small  region  we  have  to  wonder  what  else and where else similar
actions are being done for the greater good of the monied class.  What
really mystifies me is how people like my brother can bring themselves
to  justify  this.   Apparently  he has not read the fine print on the
business  cards  of  those  in power which reads "Bend over and let me
introduce myself", or perhaps he and those like him simply enjoy being
bent over.

I  suppose  this  is as close to angry as I have been in a while. This
strikes  so  close  to home. I have seen all too many good people lose
their  livlihood, their homes and farms, their dignity for the "bottom
line"  not to mention the absolutely horrendous adverse impact this is
having  on  the  environment.  And we export this kind of thinking and
infect others.  Sorry for the rant.

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
Mitglied-Team AMIGA
ICQ: 22211253-Gustli

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, 
da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] US factory farms exemption for pollution

2004-11-19 Thread John P. Gochoco


countries like India. I've heard of County Sewer Facilities and Landfills 
just flaring off the methane gas without even harnessing any of the heat 
content available to them for free. Another victim to government requirement 
maybe, i.e. EPA, CARB, and other crap like that. You can get a lot of gas 
from 2000 herd...and probably an equal amount of crap from the gov't.


Late...


JP




From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US factory farms exemption for pollution
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:28:37 -0500

Hallo Bob,

Friday, 19 November, 2004, 11:33:46, you wrote:

ba> the following does not bode well for those of  us in rural  US:
ba> http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/factory_farms.cfm
ba>   Factory Farms Want Exemption from Air Pollution Laws
...snip...

I  am  afraid  that  is  not  the  half  of it brother.  I live in the
southeastern  Michigan/northwestern  Ohio  area.   In a 20 mile radius
there  are at least 6 factory dairy farms with an average herd size of
2000  head of milking cattle.  Each cow produces AT LEAST 40 pounds of
manure  per  day which totals for ONE herd 29,200,000 pounds of manure
per year which is generally spread on the earth.  For some reason they
seem  to  be Dutch owned in this area in the main, not that that makes
any difference.

A  friend has a small farm which adjoins an 80 acre tract which one of
these  farms uses to "dispose" of its waste.  There are times when the
manure  is  some  4"  deep  and  the  stench  is nigh unto unbearable.
Nothing grows on that field.

The  upshot  of  this  is  that due to the high concentration of these
"farms" in the area the pollutants in the manure are working their way
into  our  water table.  Concomittant with this is the loss of revenue
by the small family farmer with small herds of, say, 100 head or less.
Some  dairies  are  refusing  to pick up milk from these small farmers
because  they  say  it  is "unprofitable" because they can get all the
milk  they need from the milk factories.  This is disrupting families,
the economy of the area and the environment of the entire region.  The
excuse  for this abuse is "the bottom line".  This is the greater good
our government speaks of apparently.

If  we  consider  that  this  is just one example in one contained and
small  region  we  have  to  wonder  what  else and where else similar
actions are being done for the greater good of the monied class.  What
really mystifies me is how people like my brother can bring themselves
to  justify  this.   Apparently  he has not read the fine print on the
business  cards  of  those  in power which reads "Bend over and let me
introduce myself", or perhaps he and those like him simply enjoy being
bent over.

I  suppose  this  is as close to angry as I have been in a while. This
strikes  so  close  to home. I have seen all too many good people lose
their  livlihood, their homes and farms, their dignity for the "bottom
line"  not to mention the absolutely horrendous adverse impact this is
having  on  the  environment.  And we export this kind of thinking and
infect others.  Sorry for the rant.

Happy Happy,

Gustl
--
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
Mitglied-Team AMIGA
ICQ: 22211253-Gustli

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
without signposts.
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen,
da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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RE: [Biofuel] Texas Declaratin of Energy Independance

2004-11-19 Thread Peggy

Thank you Mel for the post and for participating in the Congress.

Peggy

Subject: [Biofuel] Texas Declaratin of Energy Independance

The Texas Renewable Energy Industries Association http://www.treia.org
had it's 20th annual meeting this past week and we also had the First
Texas Renewable Energy Congress.

Delegates were asked to draft a Declaration of Energy Independence.

I was a delegate and helped massage some of the language and was also a
signer.

I have attached it as a PDF because it's prints out beautifully,

But will also try and post just the words.

mel 

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Re: [Biofuel] best processor for campus co-op?

2004-11-19 Thread John P. Gochoco


mix?? Are there any significant differences in performance??? Can you do the 
same with a 60-40 mix with Biodiesel??


Please do tell...


JP



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best processor for campus co-op?
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:07:27 EST

why don't you folks look at filtration systems
yes they cost a couple of dollars..it is 2004 and not 1966
 if we can afford a diesel motor, lets spend a couple of dollars,  
remember

the oil free,lets not beat ourselves up to refine it
i run 81 rabbit everyday on 60 -40 mix
 60 being waste oil
  40 diesel fuel
anybody filtering out there?
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[Biofuel] Food Was The Secret Election Weapon

2004-11-19 Thread Keith Addison



Food Was The Secret Election Weapon

U.S.ELECTION/04
By Wayne Roberts
(adapted from NOW Magazine, November 11-17, 2004)

The punditi say that the secret of the U.S. election - some secret - 
is that a burning bush of otherworldly evangelical religion and 
bigotry triumphed over rest-of-the-worldly urban cosmopolitanism and 
yuppiness.


Though my editor will pull her hair out to see my food obsession go 
to these lengths, I will try to show that the real secret -- as in, 
hidden in plain sight, like the food in the refrigerator that men can 
never see -- of the U.S. election is that bread and butter matters, 
specifically agricultural and food matters, defined the key issues 
and divisions. God, gays, guns and grizzlies, said to be the issues 
that brought out the vote for president Bush in the hinterland, 
coalesced as interlocked issues and values because of underlying 
habits of the North American food system. Lest anyone think such 
trends are exclusive to the U.S., the same habits may well account 
for Conservative voting strength that is mostly limited to 
dispossessed rural areas of Ontario and western Canada.


I don't want to challenge the greatest of all U.S. pundits, H.L. 
Mencken, who predicted some 75 years ago that because the U.S. 
president was elected to express the inner soul of the people, "on 
some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach 
their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by 
a downright moron."


However, we need to understand that voters in the U.S. southern Bible 
Belt and Midwest Heartland that won the election for Bush have had 
their faith in the godliness of the White House deepened by seeing 
"In God We Trust" engraved on 90 billion dollars worth of Bush 
Republican Farm Bill subsidies flowing through their area, paid for 
from the taxes of the heathens who inhabit the Democratic strongholds 
along the east and west coasts.


Such rural areas account for about 55 million voters living on 80 per 
cent of the land mass of the U.S. Voting and lifestyle habits in 
these areas confirm the wisdom of agricultural analysts who refer to 
one-crop farming - of cotton, wheat, corn and the like - as 
"monoculture."  Single-minded they may be, but their votes are almost 
double-counted, partly because under-populated states (i.e. states, 
mainly in the Bible Belt and Heartland, that are dominated by 
capital-intensive, people-less monoculture) elect two senators, just 
like New York and California, partly because these states get an 
automatic base vote in the electoral college system regardless of 
their population, and partly because rural voters who own more than 
three guns vote overwhelmingly (about 83 per cent) for Republicans, 
and don't cancel out each others' votes, as is common among more 
diverse urban voters.


Except for paradigm blindness - as in, "I can't see the milk in the 
fridge, honey" - the defining political role of food systems is as 
American as apple pie. The budget for the US department of 
agriculture is second only to the military, and the role of the 
agri-military complex has always been more important to U.S. foreign 
policy than the stereotyped "military-industrial complex." Take a 
refresher course in American history, and check out the aggressive 
and expansionist agricultural drive behind the French and Indian Wars 
of the 1750s and '60s, the Boston tea party that kicked off the 
American Revolution, the War of 1812, the war against Mexico that 
brought in Texas and California in the 1850s, the extermination of 
the buffalo and the war against Aboriginal peoples during the 1860s 
and 1870s, not to mention the Civil War between slavery-based King 
Cotton and grain-based Free Soil of the 1860s. Remember the Alamo and 
the war to spread slavery and cotton, and forget about blaming 
militarism on an industrial complex, a prejudice that only confirms 
the cultural headlock of Bible Belt and Heartland agrarianism.


Food and ag isues have long dominated US folkways and sense of 
masculinity. It was  Yankee Doodle Dandy, and not John Kerry, who was 
first typecast as an aristocratic north-eastern effeminate male with 
a feather in his cap because he was so keen for pasta (macaroni was 
then the fave food of the rich). Not to mention male fantasy icon, 
The Cowboy, inspiration for George W's  speaking and diplomatic 
style.


Many medium-sized mid-western and southern cities would vanish and 
their hinterlands become socially unsustainable except for the fact 
that their economies survive on land grant universities, another 
enduring expression of the U.S. agricultural heritage and its ability 
to funnel money to support people-less but expansionist agribusiness. 
One-crop agriculture was also central to slavery, dominant through 
the U.S. South until 150 years ago, as well as segregation and 
sharecrop farming, in force until 40 years ago.


Most tragically, ultra-conservative social and cultural politics h

Re: [Biofuel] best processor for campus co-op?

2004-11-19 Thread Keith Addison




why don't you folks look at filtration systems
yes they cost a couple of dollars..it is 2004 and not 1966


What's that supposed to mean?


if we can afford a diesel motor, lets spend a couple of dollars,  remember
the oil free,lets not beat ourselves up to refine it
i run 81 rabbit everyday on 60 -40 mix
60 being waste oil
 40 diesel fuel


Real pity about the 40 eh? Though last time you said it was 50-50. 
Also last time you had some responses, which you've so far ignored. 
Please tend to them:

http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/thread.html#2998

Keith Addison
List owner


anybody filtering out there?


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RE: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread Jonathan Schearer

Peggy, excellent words.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  Jonathan 
Schearer.

Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Well DB, now that you have your target, we 
could set up awareness and
educational programs in the churches. They could sell biodiesel by the
gallon as fundraisers. "Grease the Palm" could be the motto with
glistening palm leaves dripping with veggie oil. Actually, they could
start collection centers for all their spent oil and have fundraisers to
"Clean for Christ" and make the earth a better place for all. (My
apologies for this tongue-in-cheek message to my Christian friends whose
devout understanding is a model for excellent qualities to emulate. The
bigoted ones will roast in their beliefs anyway.) Next problem?

Best wishes,
Peggy

Subject: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the
millions of "Jesus Freakos" Who haven't a clue of what the hell
Biodiesel even is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of
reality as expressed through the George "the Weasel" Bush Machine.I
think not enough Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping masses.
Maybe the next presidential candidate will be more pro
environmental.Personally I think the religious right is a very big
problem to over comeDB

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 The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
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[Biofuel] Claiming the high ground on fuel economy

2004-11-19 Thread Arcologic

Hi, guys,

Today, a diesel car claimed the high ground on fuel economy.  I posted an ad 
in ebay, claiming to have the highest fuel-economy car in America.  

Mileage claimed:  59 mpg winter / 65 mpg summer (highway, 63.5 mph true speed)

(For 4-passenger cars, I can't beat the littler cars. And, you know I can't 
win in city driving.)

Car:  VW New Beetle TDI diesel, with proprietary drag reducer.

A few may mumble about it being a diesel, but they should remember that this 
car is one of the few cars in America able to run on completely renewable 
fuel.  

If you want to see the ad, search "fuel economy" in the ebay motors section.

Please feel free to reply with complaints or to challenge me to a fuel 
economy "race."

Ernie Rogers
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Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread Legal Eagle


and the massive vote fraud.
That the so-called christians are the enablers of these wars for Israel is 
beyond a doubt, what with those who are divesting being threatened and 
others yet being wooed not to also divest in a criminal nation hovering on 
the verge of doing it anyway, their conscience no longer able to excuse 
itself in the face of the obvious.
There actually does seem to be a small minority of those who profess to be 
Christian in the US that can function without seeing criminals as some sort 
of God-send (in the most of literal terms), so for them I say, Bravo! Good 
for you and maybe you can influence others to start living by the principles 
of their faith instead of deny them at every turn.
To the others, we can only see them for the completely dilluded group that 
they are. Howvere they are not alone; every one of the big monotheistic 
religions have been infiltrated and there are those within bent on doing or 
saying things that denigrates any and all faith, and there are only too many 
more than willing to listen and fall into that trap too. Therefore I 
reiterate, it is an oversimplification to dumb the election fraud on the 
backs of the "Jesus Freakos", when Kerry as good as quit coming out of the 
gate leaving one to wonder if the whole damnable thing wasn't fixed from the 
onset.

Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "DB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 2:54 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.


So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was beat out by the millions 
of "Jesus Freakos" Who haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even is.So 
now we have to suffer through 4 more years of reality  as expressed through 
the George "the Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough Environmental Damage 
has stirred the sleeping masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will 
be more pro environmental.Personally  I think the religious right is a very 
big problem to over comeDB

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Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.

2004-11-19 Thread Legal Eagle


of a seven year stint, or  three and one half years into his tenure, and 
then will begin a period described ass "the Great Tribulation", or if you 
prefer, a great persecution, and judging by how Bush has so misrepresented 
Christians it isn't too far a stretch to see why.
This is another thing the so-called christians don't get, they figure all 
this happens AFTER they have all gone off to eternity, but that is simply 
not the case, but then had they read what the Bible actually says then they 
wouldn't be in such a cloud eh?However, beliving that they shall escape all 
forms of persecution or responsibility fro thier actions has provided them 
with one thing; the uncanny ability to support wholesale slaughter all the 
while excusing themselves in the misguided belief that they will be spared 
what they have heeped upon others. What a nasty nasty surprise they are in 
for, or so it goes according to Biblical prophecy.
And no, Bush is not THE anti-christ, he most definetly is AN anti-christ, 
but not the one predicted.

Luc
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the next president of the Nation Devided.



I remember something in Revelations about the antichrist not being
revealed until the middle of his seventh year.  I figure this means some
major ethical scandal for "W" in July 2007.  If that happens, I might even
become a believer.

Brian


 --- DB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

So the Demorats put out their best man ,but he was
beat out by the millions of "Jesus Freakos" Who
haven't a clue  of what the hell Biodiesel even
is.So now we have to suffer through 4 more years of
reality  as expressed through the George "the
Weasel" Bush Machine.I think not enough
Environmental Damage has stirred the sleeping
masses. Maybe the next presidential candidate will
be more pro environmental.Personally  I think the
religious right is a very big problem to over
comeDB


Furthermore, evangelical right  is pro isreal, in the
belief that iseal will blow up the Axa mosque in east
jeruselem. This willl bring about the restoration of
the temple Suleman built ( which is a myth). The
evangelical christians believe that this will set up
the conditions for the comng of messiah.

fox




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[Biofuel] US DOE Secretary won't be missed

2004-11-19 Thread MH

 Abraham won't be missed
 David Lazarus
 Nov 17, 2004
 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/17/BUGC99SGI01.DTL

 Californians take energy very seriously. We pay the
 highest gas prices in the nation, and we're a leader
 in trying to balance economic needs with environmental
 considerations. 

 We also got royally hosed a few years ago when Enron and
 its corporate cronies turned our utility bills into an
 all-you-can-eat buffet. 

 So it's with little regret that we bid sayonara to U.S. Energy
 Secretary Spencer Abraham, possibly the least qualified person
 ever to fill the post. 

 Abraham announced his resignation from the Bush
 administration on Monday, along with several other
 Cabinet members, including Secretary of State Colin Powell
 (whose departure monopolized all the headlines). 

 Perhaps the best thing that can be said about Abraham's
 tenure as cheerleader in chief for the administration's
 pro-industry, anti-environment energy policy is that,
 in the end, he failed to get very much done. 

 "His time in office was a disaster," said Dean Baker,
 co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research,
 a left-leaning Washington think tank. "Four wasted years." 

 Well, maybe that's a little harsh. But the list of Abraham's
 accomplishments is slim indeed. 

 In his resignation letter to President Bush, released by the
 Department of Energy, Abraham cited a handful of
 outstanding achievements: 

 -- "Since 2001 we have developed the nation's first
 comprehensive energy plan in over a decade," he wrote.
 (Abraham neglected to say that he's been unable to get the
 plan approved by Congress.) 

 -- "We have launched the most ambitious new energy
 technology initiatives in the world," he wrote, citing
 administration backing for hydrogen as a fuel source.
 (Abraham didn't mention that hydrogen-powered vehicles
 remain many years from widespread use.) 

 -- "We have pressed ahead with the Yucca Mountain
 project," he wrote. (Abraham overlooked that the proposed
 Nevada repository for nuclear waste is stalled amid funding
 and environmental concerns.) 

 -- "We have ... significantly reduced the timeframe needed
 to secure Russia's nuclear materials," he wrote. (Abraham
 omitted the fact that the International Atomic Energy Agency
 estimates that as many as 110 countries do not have adequate
 safeguards for radioactive materials.) 

 Meanwhile, Abraham's watch as energy secretary included the
 California energy crisis (and subsequent financial fallout
 for the state), the Enron debacle, the bankruptcy of PG&E,
 the worst blackout in U.S. history, and
 record oil and gas prices. 

 It also included a steady decline in average fuel efficiency of
 U.S. vehicles, increased oil imports, abandonment of the Kyoto
 Treaty on cutting greenhouse gas emissions and a steadfast
 insistence that no scientific proof exists for global warming
 (even though most scientists say otherwise). 

 "I can only hope the next energy secretary will do more to push
 the administration toward a more responsible climate-change policy,"
 said Nigel Purvis, an environmental scholar at the Brookings
 Institution who served in the Bush administration in 2001 as
 deputy assistant secretary of state. 

 Abraham was tapped by Bush to be energy secretary despite
 having virtually no experience in the field. 

 His most prominent brush with energy prior to his appointment
 came during his sole term in the U.S. Senate, when he twice
 co-sponsored legislation to close the Energy Department as
 part of efforts to streamline the federal bureaucracy. 

 Abraham told an interviewer in 1997 that he was "elected to
 make government smarter and more efficient." His attempts to
 eliminate the Energy Department failed both times. 

 As a senator, Abraham also twice co-sponsored bills calling for
 drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and
 opposed raising fuel-efficiency standards for the auto industry.
 He voted against $62 million in funding for solar and other
 renewable energy sources. 

 The League of Conservation Voters, an environmental advocacy group,
 made Abraham its main target for defeat in 2000. The organization
 said he accepted more than $700,000 in campaign contributions from
 polluting industries and interests. 

 Abraham also accepted thousands of dollars in donations from the
 nuclear industry for his failed re-election bid. As energy secretary,
 he was a staunch advocate for the industry's interests. 

 Joe Colvin, head of the Nuclear Energy Institute, a trade group,
 was effusive in his praise for Abraham this week. 

 "His legacy will be one of vision, leadership and service to the
 nation in advancing energy policies and programs that recognize the
 vital role of nuclear power as part of a diverse portfolio that
 enhances energy security, economic growth and our nation's
 environmental well-being," Colvin said in a statement. 

 Roger Ballentine, president of Green Strategies, an environmental

[Biofuel] Canada set to cut vehicle emissions

2004-11-19 Thread MH

 Canada set to cut vehicle emissions by 25 percent
 NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE , OTTAWA 
 Nov 19, 2004 
 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/archives/2004/11/19/2003211702

 Two top Canadian ministers said on Wednesday that they had
 resolved to cut global-warming emissions of cars and trucks sold in
 Canada by 25 percent by the end of the decade.

 The commitment means that the auto industry faces steep cuts in
 greenhouse gases in Canada as well as in California and the
 Northeastern US, a geographic expanse that encompasses nearly
 one-third of the cars and trucks sold in North America.

 The Canadian ministers said they expected to conclude soon several
 years of negotiations with the auto industry over the government's 25
 percent emissions reduction goal, and they made clear in a joint
 interview Wednesday that they would not settle for a lower reduction
 number.

 "We're very clear where we want to go," said John Efford, Canada's
 natural resources minister. "We are not backing off from our position.
 Are we going to say 10 percent is OK? Fifteen percent? No.
 Twenty-five percent is our goal, and the auto industry clearly
 understands that."

 Stephane Dion, Canada's environment minister, said "the fact that
 California has moved, the fact that some northern states like Maine
 and New York are saying that they are considering to take the same
 regulations as California, if you add Canada to that, it's a third of the
 market. I don't see why North America can't be a leader instead of a
 follower."

 Several Northeastern states follow California's air quality regulations,
 and in a meeting earlier this month representatives from those states
 indicated they were likely to follow California's new greenhouse gas
 regulation, adopted in September, which lays out a 30 percent
 emissions reduction by 2016.

 The California regulation still faces an almost certain legal challenge
 from the auto industry.

 Dion and Efford also met with Fran Pavley, the California
 assemblywoman who sponsored that state's greenhouse gas
 regulation. Pavley brought a letter from a top official in Governor
 Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration seeking to work
 cooperatively with Canada on the issue. 

 "We can drive the market forces," said Pavley. "We can leverage the
 market forces if California joins with some states in the United States
 and Canada, which will help encourage the automobile manufacturers."
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