RE: [biofuel] has anyone made bio-diesel?--talk is cheap!
Dear /. I for one have been making quality biodiesel for many months now and use it in my boat,car and house generator. The knowledge to do this has come from this site which provides a wide range of support for the myriad of technical difficulties that arise. Try to be constuctive in your criticism for if you will use abuse as the starting point of your arguments then all you will achieve is to be removed from this user group. Mike -Original Message- From: / . [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 8:40 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] has anyone made bio-diesel?--talk is cheap! All I read is theoretical bullshit...Who in this group has actual experience producing bio-diesel? And what procedure do you use? __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/G_L2TD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Question's
Martin, I mean increase the initial vinegar during the initial wash stage. I found that I got crme during wash. Much of it settled out but end result was lower BD yield. Increasing the acid/water ratio and lowering agitation helped to increase BD yield. Hope this helps. Mike -Original Message- From: Martin R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 12:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Question's Hi Mike I use about 1 L of vinegar per 100L of BD but only at the wash stage Do you mean to say add the vinegar to the BD --that has a high soap contend -- and then bubble wash with no water , BD and vinegar mixture together ??? Martin R. At 03:45 PM 20/10/01, you wrote: Martin, I found that the addition of 'MUCH' more vinegar with LOW agitation helped improve the return considerably. Be patient!! Mike -Original Message- From: Martin R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Question's Hi all can some one tell me how long one should mix the BD for ??? I mix for one hour also when working out the titration ,I was told that the PH should be between 8 and 9 is this correct ?? Most of my batches are around 8.3 to 8.7 PH the trouble that I had with the bubbles in my BD was with the PH of the mix being 8.35 PH and still got all the extra soap in my fuel . How low can you go on the PH scale for the oil mixture to react and form BD and what is the least amount of Methanol one can use , say in 100L. Many thanks Martin R. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever. org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.1650662.3186813.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083 269:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085bdd84.jpg bddc0.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofu el.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Question's
Martin, I found that the addition of 'MUCH' more vinegar with LOW agitation helped improve the return considerably. Be patient!! Mike -Original Message- From: Martin R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Question's Hi all can some one tell me how long one should mix the BD for ??? I mix for one hour also when working out the titration ,I was told that the PH should be between 8 and 9 is this correct ?? Most of my batches are around 8.3 to 8.7 PH the trouble that I had with the bubbles in my BD was with the PH of the mix being 8.35 PH and still got all the extra soap in my fuel . How low can you go on the PH scale for the oil mixture to react and form BD and what is the least amount of Methanol one can use , say in 100L. Many thanks Martin R. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Question's
Yeah, 3 to 4 tablespoons per gallon of water recommended in Foolproof. I found more works better for me. Mike -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 1:40 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Question's vinegar? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Mirror Site http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. - Original Message - From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 1:45 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Question's Martin, I found that the addition of 'MUCH' more vinegar with LOW agitation helped improve the return considerably. Be patient!! Mike -Original Message- From: Martin R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Question's Hi all can some one tell me how long one should mix the BD for ??? I mix for one hour also when working out the titration ,I was told that the PH should be between 8 and 9 is this correct ?? Most of my batches are around 8.3 to 8.7 PH the trouble that I had with the bubbles in my BD was with the PH of the mix being 8.35 PH and still got all the extra soap in my fuel . How low can you go on the PH scale for the oil mixture to react and form BD and what is the least amount of Methanol one can use , say in 100L. Many thanks Martin R. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pv4pGD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Report Back on Biodiesel
My attempts at acquiring large volumes of used veggie oil from single sources has not as yet reached fruition. All the promises and best intentions of some of these large companies seem to fall away when it comes to making decisions to CHANGE even if its for the better. The results of the work I have done, on a small scale, show that it is most important to have starting material that is consistent in composition. I have found that variability of starting material to be the biggest problem, for me, in a reduced return. Here, in South Africa, the used oil is an industry in itself with many sources already catered for the disposal. One can buy used oil in bulk but without any guarantee on composition, as expected. Most of it is sold for reuse for making soap, they say, although its use in animal feed and reuse as cooking oil by the lower income groups is probable. I have also had problems with reduced return during the wash. My best results have been by lowing the ph with vinegar well in excess of that indicated in the literature (Foolproof) and being careful not to agitate to much. So, until I find a regular and consistent source of used oil I am reduced to producing for my own consumption, for the time being. Well... its a start!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ujOgTC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Washing the biodiesel
Thanks for your info. It seems to me that the return after the wash should not loose more than a few percent of the esters. A 60% return seems low and adds to the cost significantly. I'm playing around with reducing lye and the reaction time for first stage. Please let me know if you come up with something. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:31 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing the biodiesel Hi Mike. There's a lot of excess flap on this site, sometimes not much useful flap. Anyway, I haven't been producing bio-d very long but my best result after washing has been about 60% bio-d. Not sure if I was having a good day or if I did something wrong those days but my tractor ran without a skip. Be sure that you allow the temperature of your wash water and the temp. of your bio-d to be as close to equilibrium as possible before washing. Be sure and check the PH level of your bio-d to compensate for any excess lye or methanol. I usually allow my bio-d and wash water to set up at least 12hrs before mixing to allow the temp. to equalize. On a nice sunny day, I'll let the mixture set outside in the warm sun to aid in separation (I'm still making small batches). Maybe one of the more experienced producers can offer more suggestions. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Washing the biodiesel
Thanks Alex. Do you think that backsplitting could be one of the problems? Or just excess lye ( I used 3.5g/l) -Original Message- From: Aleksander lt;kac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:29 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Washing the biodiesel Hi Mike I'm struggling with the washing of the biodiesel. I get a low return (50%) and a lot of creamy mayonnaise. Do you get rid of the water before the reaction? Perhaps you use too much lye. How much do you use? Yield should be ~ 100% even by an inexperienced biofueler. I usually get 105% after reaction and 103% after washing - I have a flat bottom reactor, which doesn't quite help hold yield high. During the processing I get a good glycerin drop (15%) using Foolproof on used veggie oil. Everything looks good until the wash when I add the vinegar and water to the biodiesel start the bubbling and watch the mayo form. Obviously there is too much lye in the biodiesel. The mayo is easily mendable: keep adding strong (pickling) vinegar or a 10% citric acid solution, until you see separation - while mixing slowly or bubbling gently. This may kep yield low (95%), but it'll save most of your bio. There is very little water in the processing and my understanding is that any excess methanol or lye will wash out. Could the temperature of my washing water or composition ( tap or faucet water from municipality) be the cause? Nuh. While the process is tricky, it's not that tricky! Biodiesel is best washed with small water portions (25%) at lest three times 10 hours, allowing settling times of 2 hrs before draining. At least the first washing water should be acid (purchase a set of pH paper to get an idea), settling after the final washing stage should be 3 days minimum - up to 2 weeks. This eliminates the hassle of reheating and saves a lot of energy. Petrodiesel fuel has to settle for 3 weeks after it arives at a fuel depot, so waiting one week is quite little when compared. Cheers, Aleks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Washing the biodiesel
Todd, I'm getting a very good glycerine drop and within two hours of adding the methoxide. It seems, from my limited perspective, that the reaction is appearing to be complete. I did not get any third layer. I did add additional methoxide to measure completion and got a lightly discoloured bottom layer of, I believe, methanol. I'm hoping that reducing the lye from 3.5g/l to 3.1g/l and/or reducing first stage mixing time to avoid, perhaps, backsplitting will help increase yield after the wash. I don't really want to get exotic, yet. If the standard process works for others it should work for me, yah? Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:14 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing the biodiesel Mike, Don't know if this helps. Generally, if a reaction has not gone to completion, then the remaining mono- and di-glycerides that didn't finish cracking will emulsify the mix and make mayonaise. Sometimes, if the volume of mono-glycerides and di-glycerides are not too much, a little phosphoric acid can break the emulsion. Still, after the emulsion has broken, you need to run a liter of what you thought was biodiesel through the process steps again to see if anymore glycerin drops out. More often than not, you might just have to let the mayonaise set for a few weeks. Sometimes even considerable amounts of acid won't break an emulsion. Time alone will generally reduce your mayonaise layer's depth, permitting you to recover much or most of the oil. We have used vinegar in the past. This is fine for neutralizing when you know the reaction has completed. If it hasn't, and you've added vinegar but the emulsion doesn't break, you'll probably end up having to go to a stronger acid, such as phosphoric. Mixing organic and inorganic acids will probably give you a very milky looking top layer after the mayonaise emulsion breaks. Not that it matters, as the oil will need to be run through its paces again anyway, for it is not yet biodiesel in good standing. Test everything in small batches first, then go with what works. Make sure you dilute your acid down to about 12-15%. Working with higher percents won't offer any better results in the long run. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:13 AM Subject: [biofuel] Washing the biodiesel I'm struggling with the washing of the biodiesel. I get a low return (50%) and a lot of creamy mayonnaise. During the processing I get a good glycerin drop (15%) using Foolproof on used veggie oil. Everything looks good until the wash when I add the vinegar and water to the biodiesel start the bubbling and watch the mayo form. There is very little water in the processing and my understanding is that any excess methanol or lye will wash out. Could the temperature of my washing water or composition ( tap or faucet water from municipality) be the cause? Stuck on the final stage!!! Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing the biodiesel
I'm struggling with the washing of the biodiesel. I get a low return (50%) and a lot of creamy mayonnaise. During the processing I get a good glycerin drop (15%) using Foolproof on used veggie oil. Everything looks good until the wash when I add the vinegar and water to the biodiesel start the bubbling and watch the mayo form. There is very little water in the processing and my understanding is that any excess methanol or lye will wash out. Could the temperature of my washing water or composition ( tap or faucet water from municipality) be the cause? Stuck on the final stage!!! Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage
There are a variety of ways to produce hydrogen. Although the fundamental energy equations still apply, energy can be obtained from as you say hydroelectric, solar, geothermal, and algae. I think Iceland is big on this. Also compression isn't the only way to store the hydrogen. THEY'RE using hydrogen absorbing alloys and the like. I like hydrogen!!! Mike -Original Message- From: Trudy Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:07 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] A Pollution-Free Car in Every Garage George Bush says it will work!! He uses fuzzy math!! Greg -- Original Message -- From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:36:52 +0100 htmlbody tt If the energy obtained from a given mass of hydrogen is 100% -BR the energy taken to make that hydrogen by hydrolysis is 130%BR It then takes another 30% to compress it for portabilityBR Making it, in all, in all 160% energy negativeBR BR So much for the energy economy - unless you have access to unlimitedBR hydro-electric powerBR BR /tt br tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytofo rever.org/biofuel.html/aBR Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt br br ttYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the a href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/;Yahoo! Terms of Service/a./tt /br /body/html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fish oil
Has anyone used fish oils for the production of biodiesel? Would the standard procedures work or does fish oil present a problem? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil
Sure!! $250.00/metric ton (RSA) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:15 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fish oil Does anyone know where to get a price of bulk fish oil. Is it not one of the cheapest types of renewable oil. Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Methanol Availability - Australia
Expensive -Original Message- From: Paul Gobert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:46 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Methanol Availability - Australia - Original Message - From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED] I live on the northern beaches of Sydney. Does anyone in the group have some methanol locations that would suit me. Try BP (Australia) they market the methanol I am using. BP Methanol Straight. Available in 20L and 200L drums, Not sure of current price but about $200.00 per 200L drum I think. Regards Paul Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Methanol Availability - Vancouver
I pay the equivalent of US$2.00 for 99% methanol here in South Africa. Keep searching... -Original Message- From: Dave Morch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:48 PM To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Availability - Vancouver Just checked with a place called Canada Colors, a chemical supplier on Annacis Island, this was the first place I checked, and their response is shown below. All prices in Canadian dollars. 163kg= approx. 163 litres 163 x$1.51 = $246/drum + taxes 45 US gallons (3.785 litres/US gallon) $3.65 (US$)/gallon, seems like a lot, compared to the other quotes I've heard, plus you can pick it up for that price in a 4 litre jug (Methyl Hydrate as it's called here) almost anywhere, ie. Walmart. I'll keep checking. I'll check with Methanex next, they actually produce the stuff. Here's the response: Dear Sir/Madam, I was forwarded your request for a quotation on methanol based on an annual usage of 2 drums. Pricing is as follows: Methanol (CCC code 597757) (163 kg/drum): $1.51/kg (based on a 2 drum purchase) F.O.B. Vancouver, plus applicable taxes and drum deposits Should you be interested in pursuing this further a credit application could be forwarded to your attention such that an account could be set up. Alternatively, payment could be made with a certified cheque. I trust this meets with your requirements but please contact me if you require any further information either by e-mail or at 523-3256. Best Regards, Ron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] what is the best source of raw material for producingbiodiesel...
I'm not the expert but, from my limited experience and readings, it appears that the conversion of different oils into biodiesel is similar in percentage return and performance. I say similar because there certainly are variations but I doubt they amount to more than 20%. Iwould go with the cheapest and least complicated. Anybodydisagree? Mike -Original Message-From: Jan Surwka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:12 PMTo: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.comCc: biofuel@yahoogroups.comSubject: [biofuels-biz] what is the best source of raw material for producingbiodiesel...Hi to all,I have an economic problem:Observing the prices of different oils on Agro Exchange (e.g in Rotterdam) I found thatdifferent oils have different prices:For example: Rapeseed oil: cost 430 Euro/tonneCoconut oil: 230 Euro/tonneSoyebean oil: 355 Euro/tonneWhich means that the best source for biodiesel should be the cheapest oil.It is really the case ? What are differences (if any) of biodiesels produced from different oils ???Can anyone from the group attempt to address this issue , please ?jan[EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Foreverhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBiofuel at WebConXhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htmTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
Here in Cape Town. I double checked and 95% ethanol sells at $.60 liter and 99% methanol sells at a similar price. Still haven't reached the big suppliers yet, though. Mike Here where? Joe Funny, I've priced 200% ethanol here at around $.80 liter. What gives? I better double check my sources. Mike -Original Message- From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:23 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. Mike B Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol
Funny, I've priced 200% ethanol here at around $.80 liter. What gives? I better double check my sources. Mike -Original Message- From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:23 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol vs. Methanol Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. Mike B Cost, cost, cost. I pay $3.00 a gallon for methanol in small quantities, others are paying much less. I can't even make my own anhydrous ethanol for less than $10 a gallon, and buying it from a commercial producer puts you over $50 a gallon with all the tax. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
I know that it is a solid at room temperature. I believe it is similar to vegetable shortening. There is such an animal as partially hydrogenated oil, although I don't know its characteristics. Mike -Original Message- From: ian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:59 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil I'm asking the same question. How can you tell it apart from other veggie oil? Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
Does anybody have any experience with the processing of Hydrogenated Oils? OK, how about knowledge? OKOK! References? I'm interested in any processing or performance information. Much appreciated Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Well, I think that the ethanol people would be the moonshine makers, whereas the Biodiesel people would obviously be the more highly cultivated? Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. Mike B -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller Hi Ron Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we all share your aims, or should. There's no division that I know of between biodiesel and ethanol people - I see it as the same subject. If there were a division I'd be very perturbed. Please explain? Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim
Kevin, This process does work. So, I still believe that there was something wrong with your procedure. Its probably best to try again in a one liter bottle. Else, you could detail out your procedure exactly, again, step by step. For instance, after how long after you mixed the sulphuric acid did you add the 550ml methoxide? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 11:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim Mike, I was processing 11 litres of WVO . When mixing methoxide I used 1100 ml. methanol with approx. 33.5 grams lye. It appeared as though it was all dissolved. In the first stage I added half of that mixture. The next day I added the second half. Kevin D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim
No I don't think the extra ten minutes would be damaging. What was your concentration of NaOH in the methoxide and how much did you add in ml on each dosing? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:34 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim In a message dated 6/1/01 3:32:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike I did add half of the methoxide , but it was after mixing the acid in for fifteen min. I should have done it after five min. Would ten min. make that much difference? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings
Thanks, I was always better in maths. Mike -Original Message-From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 4:06 AMTo: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetingsimápugn (m-pyn)tr.v. imápugned, imápugnáing, imápugns To attack as false or questionable; challenge in argument: impugn apolitical opponent's record. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htmRenewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.comPalm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palmX10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10[EMAIL PROTECTED](212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/faxWe do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,we borrow it from our children.--- Original Message -From: "Mike Brownstone" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.comSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:10 AMSubject: RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings Hey Pedro, What does 'impugned' mean? Mike -Original Message- From: Pedro M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:04 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings Can I answer to this question, at least for Spain ??. Do the middle and little biodiesel companies has future comparated with big petroleum companies ??- In Spain there is a tax exemption for the biodiesel but it has been impugned by BP and nowadays the Spanish Goverment doesn«t give this exemption to the enterprises . Are the biodiesel companies ( like green companies like they are )enough incentived ???. Pedro. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings Hello, CONGRATULATIONS!!! This kind of Biofuel Forum what was I looking for. Is very important to separate the forums occuped in topic like "do it yourself" (home made biodiesel) and the forum for large scale production with a macroeconomic point of view. I hope a very interesting "brain storm". Again, CONGRATULATIONS KEITH AND STEVE Mauro Ariel Knudsen Argentinean Biodieseler. Hello Mauro, I'm glad you're here, and thanks a lot for the encouragement. Please go ahead and set the brainstorm going! Where do you think we should start? Regards Keith Addison Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.Biofuels at Journey to Foreverhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBiofuel at WebConXhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htmTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim
According to the formula, you should be adding half the methoxide after you have mixed in the sulphuric acid. Heat and stir the mixture after adding sulphuric acid for 50 min then stop heating let mix for 1.5 to 2 hours. Then add half of the methoxide mix for 5 min then let settle overnight. I believe the methoxide, at this point, stops the esterification process. The next day, heat up to 55 C and add rest of the methoxide to transesterify, turn off heat, and mix for 1 hour then let settle. You will see separation. IF you do not add the methoxide after the sulphuric acid the esterification process will not stop and you might get some reverse-esterification. Not good!! I also understand that the first stage isn't really necessary with pure veggie oil. Only really needed if there are animal fats in the solution (trans fatty acids). Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:26 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Aleks' 'foolproof method' methanol reclaim Mike, When I purchased the methanol it was 99 , I used it a few times for one litre batches doing it the old way from the book From the Fryer to the Fuel tank. It worked fine for that.Then I read about this procedure and re-read and re-read until I felt comfortable enough to give it a go. During first stage I added just methanol after the initial heating of WVO. 1100 ml. first mix for five min. then added the 11 ml. sulfuric acid, mixed for 45 min. settle overnite. Next day heated first stage mixture added 1100ml methoxide and mixed for 45 min. I am not sure what you mean , did I stop reaction by adding methxide. exactly when do you mean add methoxide to stop reaction? Thanks for any help you can give so I can remediate . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings
Hey Pedro, What does 'impugned' mean? Mike -Original Message-From: Pedro M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:04 PMTo: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings Can I answer to this question, at least for Spain ??. Do the middle and little biodiesel companies has future comparated with big petroleum companies ??- In Spain there is a tax exemption for the biodiesel but it has been impugned by BP and nowadays the Spanish Goverment doesn«t give this exemption to the enterprises . Are the biodiesel companies ( like green companies like they are ) enough incentived ???. Pedro. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Greetings Hello, CONGRATULATIONS!!!This kind of Biofuel Forum what was I looking for. Is very importantto separate the forums occuped in topic like "do it yourself" (homemade biodiesel) and the forum for large scale production with amacroeconomic point of view. I hope a very interesting "brain storm".Again, CONGRATULATIONS KEITH AND STEVE Mauro Ariel Knudsen Argentinean Biodieseler.Hello Mauro, I'm glad you're here, and thanks a lot for the encouragement. Please go ahead and set the brainstorm going! Where do you think we should start?RegardsKeith AddisonBiofuels at Journey to Foreverhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBiofuel at WebConXhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htmTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Foreverhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBiofuel at WebConXhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htmTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [biofuel] I want to brew my first batch of biodiesel
eric, Do yourself a favour and start with a small amount like one liter in a clear bottle. It's really much easier like this. You can find methanol and lye (NaOH) at any chemical supply store. Mike -Original Message- From: eric almanzan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 6:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] I want to brew my first batch of biodiesel I want to brew some biodiesel, im not a chemist, but i have read mike pelleys recipe several times, and i understand most of it. Im going to have to start by buying the pieces like the big pot to heat it in, i can make a jig for the stirring pretty easily, but after that i get kind of confused. Is the pot i cook it in supposed to have a spout at the bottom to drain out the biodiesel?? and after its seperated from cooking and then drained I will have to wash it, will i need another special pot for that?? I will ask my questions piece by piece so i can understand them better. where do i get methanol and lye?? __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol
Dale, Isn't there any loss of methanol during reaction? I am surprised that you are recovering all that you use. Or did I mis-understand you? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:29 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol I've used and re-used about thirty gallons of methanol so far using my hot pink vacuum still. At first I was worried about recovering water at the end of a run, so watched the condensate closely for any sign of cloudiness. I've never seen any. I don't think water can be recovered from the byproduct at anywhere near the boiling point of methanol. Dale --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith Addison asks: A biodiesel question. If you boil off and distill the excess methanol from the glycerine for re-use, is it in fact suitable for re-use? snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Digest Number 459
I have a couple of cents to add to this: As I understand some of it, one of the big problems with global warming is the increase in fresh water into the oceans from increased rainfall and the melting of the polar ice caps. The network of currents in the oceans have a great effect on climate. These currents are primarily driven by an oceanic pump created from the sinking of the salt water into the depths of the ocean. This continuous cycle not only acts as a heat exchange mechanism by bringing cold water to warm but also brings up the nutrient rich material found mostly in the deep. As any fisherman knows, that's where you catch the tuna. Fresh water stops this pump simply by diluting the salt water!!! Yes, it is all theory but whether or not something's going to happen is not the point. We can only try to predict the possibilities. I don't think anyone would deny that we, as a race, are and have changed the world irreparably for good or for bad. There is evidence that there is a problem and I, for one, can't take the chance that I might hand over this world in worse shape than I got it. I might have little effect, but I CAN get active. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:58 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Digest Number 459 Good afternoon Kirk, A few commments: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The major source of influence is the output of the sun. if you mean that the only source of input energy to the earth is the sun, then yes, I agree. But if you're somehow trying to rule out the constituent makeup of the atmosphere as having much to do with anything I am baffled as to your reasoning. Also weather does not constitute climate change. I'm not sure what you mean by this either. snip If the atmosphere was an Olympic size swimming pool full of vodka the fluorocarbon concentration would be the same as taking an eyedropper and adding a drop of Vermouth. Mighty dry Martini. Ok, first of all, a real martini is made with gin, not vodka. Second, WOAH slow down and be careful about your metaphores. I know you've mostly been making refference to the hole in the Ozone, but I've read other's comments here on the general topic of global climate change and wanted to throw out a few considerations to illustrate that what you are trying to imply is a gross oversimplification. CO2 is one of the most commonly discussed greenhouse gases. It has the capacity to capture and store a large amount of IR radiation and is one of the gasses in our atmosphere which keeps us from freezing to death. Methane, partly because of its greater structural complexity, has something like an order of magnitude or more capacity for storing IR radiation( as in your sheep david really MAY be the problem, but more likely it's all the beef we idiot yanks eat). Hydroflourocarbons have something like two orders of magnitude more capacity. I.E. much smaller quantities have much higher capacity for energy storage. I am not a climate scientist and am not aware of what the other factors are which play a part in our planets equilibrium. I am, however, quite aware that there are many many many factors and that these things are debated hotly. I know for a fact that making oversimplified metaphores never helps, especially when used to attempt to contradict widely held beliefs in the scientific community. If you read the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx you see elimination of private property as one of the planks. Eco-crises is being promoted as a vehicle to that end. Hysteria is being used as a motivational tool. Kirk I'm sorry, I missed that. was that hysteria over ecological problems being used to shove communism down our throats, or hysteria over communism being used to justify selfishness and craming of heads in the sand? -andrew Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: B100 schools switch - was [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings
I think it would be better to market B20 as the real problem is public awareness, as I see it. You can achieve a broader distribution with fewer problems. Its also fully certified. But anyway, like Keith says: 'strength to your arm'. Mike -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: B100 schools switch - was [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings Working on getting the Berkeley Unified School District here in California to switch to B100, will update with progress, -Andrew Best of good luck, and strength to your arm. Please update as poss. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
I have heard that much of the used veggie oil is being added to feedstock direct. Aside from the low nutritional value, what are your thoughts on this? Mike -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow bob golding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process. Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70 countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may then have been fed to their cattle). The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you are. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: beeteljeuse beelzebub [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive.. You say As a result of BSE... Are we talking about using beef tallow from europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not. Allen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
Here, here Bob, I've been thinking about this for a while now ( I like the idea of algae farms ). Can you, perhaps refer me to more information. You know, which are the best to use, conditions of growing etc.. Mike -Original Message- From: bob golding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 1:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil If you look at the yields from oil bearing algae compared to soybean or rape, that is the best area to throw the technology at rather than improving current crop yields,and pushing bio-diesel further into the clutches of M--s--t- and Ca-g--l and the like Oil,grain,soybeans, it's all the same to them. The beauty of bio-diesel as I see it is that it doesn't need large corporations to make it work. It can be produced locally and sold locally. Economies of scale is usually a euphemism for larger profits for the few. It doesn't have to be that way with boid. With petro diesel you can't just go out and drill for it. You have to invest billions in exploration, so the oil companies keep telling us when asked to justify their 3 million pounds a hour or whatever. This may be true ,but their motivation is profit for their shareholders, not can I take less from the enviroment This does not strike me as a sustainable system. If you don't think this is true just ask anyone in Southern Nigeria or Columbia. cheers bob golding - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil Joseph Martelle wrote: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding? Not even on the table - loads of carbohydrates (not starch), but not a lot of oil. Good for ethanol though. What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean, rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area? Dunno, maybe. But most of it so far seems tied either to securing a market sector or to securing sales of associated products (eg herbicides). One looks hard for success stories. RR (Roundup-Ready) herbicide-resistant soybeans are losing their resistance (leading to increased use of herbicides, up to 30% more than with non-GE soy, instead of the decreased use we were promised) as well as their yields - yields are sagging badly. One doesn't have to look too hard for outright failures (Starlink), and for side-effects we were promised and assured were impossible but they're now happening anyway. And of course the whole technology as it applies to food has lost its consumer acceptance - I don't think it's the technology itself people don't trust, it's the companies doing it. These folks don't have a good record with this kind of stuff, nor with anything else much. So I'm sure what you suggest is possible (what isn't these days?) but would it work out right? And with what unforeseen costs? Anyway, if you look through the amazing history of crop development over the last four millenia or so, you end up very impressed with the capabilities of traditional plant breeding through selection. It works, it's safe, and the benefits are widespread and permanent. Modern plant-breeding has produced nothing to equal the banana, said a modern plant-breeder. The banana is a man-made hybrid, produced a couple of thousand years ago, by all accounts. It can't reproduce itself, all bananas are propagated by hand and always have been. Wherever Europeans went discovering new (to them) parts of the world, the banana was there before them. It's of immense benefit to billions of people. Really first-class science. I'm not knocking GE, it's an immensely promising field, it's a huge pity (?) that its development is in the hands of these wisdomless dumbos who've given us so much else to be less than thankful for. A frequent question on the list (but recently, regarding newspapers) is ethanol production from cellulose, a technology that it seems just isn't there yet, despite all sorts of promising start-ups and so on. More info here: Ethanol resources on the Web - see Ethanol from cellulose: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html It seems the perfect case for a GE organism. Well, it was tried. Do a message archive search for message #2887 at the list website to see the results - Alcohol-producing GM bacteria could destroy all life on earth, 22 Feb 2001. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages Wisdomless dumbos isn't an exaggeration. The precautionary principle is sacrosanct, but it's been widely ignored, and instead of the fruits of
RE: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
That will work well with fuel cells. -Original Message- From: Warren Rekow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology The article in Popular Science is actually rather short and does not provide much detail. It appears that TPV devices require a heat source with a temperature in the 800 to 1700 deg.C range. Here are a few web sites: http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mwhale/MTPV.html http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/tpv.htm http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov/pvsee/programs/tpv.html http://www.mtiresearch.com/tpv.html -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Keith, How about getting rid of this thing? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 4:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance To Whom This May Concern, me thinks you protest too much -- you sniveling socialist pigs! wherefore the invectives? Even an idiot can sense your political proclivity. When will you socialists/communists realize that your utopian pursuits are nothing more than a diabolical scheme that will eventually be frustrated? I tuned in to learn more about bio-fuels, and related matters-not to be bombarded by your frequent conjecture stemming from your obvious political bias. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] (Fwd) Biodiesel emissions
Ola, I got some good information from the following link: http://www.cytoculture.com/Biodiesel%20Handbook.htm#Lower%20Hydrocarbon%20Em Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:11 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] (Fwd) Biodiesel emissions I wonder, does anyone have a breakdown of all emissions from a 100% diodiesel burn? Saludos - James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
If you can't handle free exchange of ideas than why don't you unsubscribe. You can learn how to from the bottom of the page. Try to spell it properly. -Original Message- From: Ian J Joseph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 2:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance No, not at all. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance To whomever this may concern why do I get the feeling that this forum is an exchange of ideas for a bunch of socialists, and communists? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Todd, Thats the whole thing. Nobody wants to remove it. In this country, used cooking oil is maybe reprocessed and sold to the lower income groups. ( I know, there should be a law ) Anyway, these guys won't accept used hydrogenated oil -- too foreign to them. I feel like I'm in the butter!! Now, just to setup a reliable production. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference It turns out that I have located a source for good quantities of used hydrogenated vegetable oil. Before I enter into any negotiations I wonder whether this type of oil will prove difficult to convert into biodiesal. Any thoughts on this? .. Mike, Go for it!!! Your final biodiesel product will have a greater energy value than a biodiesel derived from the same oil before it was hydrogenated. Don't offer them money outright, if you can avoid it, especially if they are presently paying to have it removed. If you can afford it, tell 'em you'll remove it for free. That should make you their friend for life. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Dear Todd, Thanks for your information. Hydrogenation sounds interesting but first things first. I live next to a fishing harbour which probably consumes a few million liters of diesal monthly. If I want to have an impact on this I need to be able to tell people straight what they gonna get or not. It's also an important consideration for costing purposes. For those who want to advantage of this, well, biodiesal is just good business. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 3:37 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Is my thinking correct?: If the energy content of most biodiesals is between 35 and 40 Mj/kg (Terry 4/27) Lowest heat of combustion is canola methyl ester at 39.9 Mj/kg Highest is rape at 40.54 Mj/kg The rest are in between D2 is 45.42 Mj/kg and #2Diesal is 45 mj/kg then holding all other factors constant one should get about a 10% lower performance than #2D. This would mean that a liter of biodiesal is not equivalent to a liter of Petrodiesal, yah? . Mike, That is, by and large correct. There is a slight horsepower reduction when running biodiesel neat. Some would jump on this factoid like a cat on a rat, screaming I told you so, and other mindless declarations that berate bio-d. When they do this, they immediately neglect such minor details as enormously cleaner air, greatly reduced carcinogenics in both emissions and manufacture (read reduced medical costs and human suffering), fuel renewability, enormously increased biodegradability, conservation of petroleum feedstock for future generations, strengthening the economic outlook of family farms and a herd of other side benefits. My perspective is that such individuals have either not thought the equation out fully or are highly selfish. If they keep their britches on for a decade while this industry gets off the ground, they will probably see biodiesel energy content increase, if through nothing else hydrogenatiion. This process breaks down double bonds and adds hydrogen to the mix, increasing energy value. A bit of an industrial process, that. Refer to ASTM standardization for data on cloudpoint, lubricity and coking. No one has really done much on the latter. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Dear Todd, Excellent reference!!! It addresses many of the topics to satisfy my curiosity, etc... Here is Cape Town, we only have about 1000 fish and chip shops in the area. A couple of dozen fish processing plants and much more. Fish oil? I have completed my first biodiesal setup and tested. All went very well. I mixed up to 80% on a diesal pump and ran it for five hours without even skipping a pistons beat. It was nice to watch the changeover from petrodiesal to biodiesal. The smoke cleared and the smell changed. All in a moment. Surprised, though, at how much care one has to take to do a proper and reliable job. My advise to anyone is to keep instruments clean and don't hurry!!! My next step is to secure proper and reliable sources for the input material as well as build a small production (1000 liters/day). I still need to obtain proper batch testing methods. I am also surrounded by ocean and wonder if kelp could be used.??? Thanks for your help. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Mike, Check out http://www.cytoculture.com/Biodiesel%20Handbook.htm#Lower%20Hydrocarbon%20Em issions Mariners would appreciate this text. Also, start checking within a 40 mile radius of your port and determine how many fast food outlets you have, everything from hamburger joints to donut shops to chicken outlets. If you can count more than 30, you can feasibly build a biodiesel plant of 1,500 gallon per batch or day capacity and release the fuel for under $1.10 a gallon US (pre-tax), still maintaining a $0.50 a gallon profit and an eight month payback on the original debt. Check your feedstock sources and get back to me. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Todd, Is my thinking correct?: If the energy content of most biodiesals is between 35 and 40 Mj/kg (Terry 4/27) Lowest heat of combustion is canola methyl ester at 39.9 Mj/kg Highest is rape at 40.54 Mj/kg The rest are in between D2 is 45.42 Mj/kg and #2Diesal is 45 mj/kg then holding all other factors constant one should get about a 10% lower performance than #2D. This would mean that a liter of biodiesal is not equivalent to a liter of Petrodiesal, yah? Can you refer me to any more info on the testing and standards for coking,cloud point and lubricity? Much appreciated. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 7:31 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Mike, So, it doesn't really make a difference which veggy oil one uses. The net result will be, basically, the same. Pretty much. Some are perhaps slightly better than others. Is there a direct correlation (linear) between energy content and performance? Yup. It's the energy content, combined with compression, which defines the energy output. Less energy initially will result in less output, due to less explosive combustion. Please define 'coking potential' and ' cloud point' and another term I've come across is' lubricity'. Are these technical details or are they significant enough to effect performance or tear and wear? Coking potential in layman's terms is carbon buildup. Some fuels coke worse than others. Cloud point is the temperature where the fuel begins to crystalize or solidify. It literally turns cloudy and starts to cause problems with fuel flow. Line freeze follows thereafter. Lubricity is the lubricative quality of a fuel, measured in quantifiable units. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Dear Todd, Thanks for your comprehensive response. I almost understand you!! So, it doesn't really make a difference which veggy oil one uses. The net result will be, basically, the same. Is there a direct correlation (linear) between energy content and performance? Please define 'coking potential' and ' cloud point' and another term I've come across is' lubricity'. Are these technical details or are they significant enough to effect performance or tear and wear? Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 2:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm-oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? . Mike, Technically, the answer is yes. Examine the following: Each oil is going to have a different fatty acid profile makeup - different amounts of multiple types of constituent oils such as lanoleic, linoleic, etc. As each oil has a different makeup of varying components, the post transesterification results will have some differences from oil to oil as well. Oils have differing original heat values and the final biodiesels are subject to similar variations. Your question or implication that some oils may form better biodiesels relative to final energy content is logical and accurate. The $64 million dollar question, however, is actually a number of primary questions. Secondary and tertiary questions can be omitted for the moment. The biggies are: 1) What is the ranking of each biodiesel from highest energy value to lowest, per gallon or liter? 2) What is the yield of biodiesel from each oil from highest yield to lowest, per gallon or liter? 3) What is the coking potential of each biodiesel, based upon static tests over time? 4) What is the cloud point of each oil's biodiesel from highest temp to lowest? 5) What variances occur in answers to the above three questions when using differing alcohols to form the esters, such as methyl, ethyl, iso-propyl, iso-butyl, etc? While there are some studies that try to corner the elusive answer to your question, absolutely no one to date, at least relative to general knowledge, has conducted an experiment of appropriate breadth, depth and duration to accurately answer the question What is the best oil from which to manufacture biodiesel? There are a lot of oils, a lot of alcohols, several different processes and a somewhat large cost factor incurred to analyze each variable accurately. Until such a time as these measures are taken, you'll be relatively safe to continue with mainstays such as rapeseed, soy, used veg and animal oils, palm or any others that have logged hundreds of thousands of miles and been documented. Going beyond that, you'll probably need a reasonably large grant in order to determine the unequivocal answer. Hope this answers your question... :-) Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] RE: biofuels and gardners
David, Just wanted to thank you for the info. Very useful! Mike -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:46 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: biofuels and gardners Mike, Try the folowing: www.gardnerparts.co.uk/index htm e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What's the difference
Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm-oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: biofuels and gardners
David, Perhaps you can help me. I not that you have referred to the ' old Gardiners and earlier diesels'. I have two L8 Gardners in a motor launch (ML1200 old 1943 military vessel). I have been unable to locate Gardners UK for spares. Do you have any info on this. By the way, I've started making biodiesal for her use. Thanks to you people out there. Second question: Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? Mike Brownstone -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 9:20 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] vehicles Ed, Steven et al, T.P. bypass filters are ideal for cleaning diesel and other similar fuels as they remove the asphaltine particles which are the major cause of combustion soot and other contamination. I sell bypass filters especially for this purpose. They are identical to the by-pass oil filters except the orifice restriction of 50 thou which is required to drop the velocity so the oil is filtered properly and only a small percentage is bled off at any given time has been opened out or removed so the diesel has unrestricted flow and is matched to the injector or engine requirement. They also have a tap on the bottom so that the water which separates out and sits on the bottom of the cannister can be regularly bled off. After looking at or replacing everyone I have installed I now know all diesel is dirty even if it looks perfectly clean to the natural eye. When you see what these things remove you can understand why quite a lot of the modern diesels which are built to much finer tolerances dont last anything like the old Gardiners and earlier diesels. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Wet Blanket was Sea shanty
I vote for letting people say what they want to say. Besides, it only takes me ten minutes a day to go thru it all. Its called a delete button. Point noted, though!!! Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:12 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Wet Blanket was Sea shanty Sorry if I appear to be the proverbial wet blanket, but has anyone noticed several unsubscription requests lately referring to excessive correspondence which they are unable to plow through, as well as off topic material? Would it be entirely out of line to suggest that we seriously attempt to limit the lightheartedness, joviality and frivolity of off topic material to off list conversation? Just a purist, die-hard, extremist who would prefer to keep as many people in the loop for as long as possible - all the while attempting to maintain my sanity in an insane world. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
