[biofuels-biz] Re: What are the Legal ramifications in Australia

[gjkimlin]

HI Barry,
We mostly buy our Methanol from BP in 200lt drums and decant into 
drums for individual use. We can help if you live West of Brisbane. 
My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Regards from Harry

--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've the same problem... I'm trying to locate a supply of 
Methenol in
> South Queensland and having no end of difficulty
> Barry
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:47 PM
> Subject: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in 
Australia
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > I am new to this group I like what I ahve been reading in the 
archives.  I
> have a question hopefully someone can direct me to the answer.
> >
> >
> > What is situation in Australia with distilling Ethanol for fuel 
purposes.
> Do you need a licence or permit.  If so where do you obtain one?
> >
> > Jess
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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> >
> >
> >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


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[biofuels-biz] Re: two-stage and glycerine acidification

[gjkimlin]

I think it's valid, but I have found that addition of some methanol 
after washing and drying seems to "reconvert' the FFA's. I tried to 
do a conventional Acid Step after washing but I found that addition 
of sulphuric made no difference that I could measure. The methanol 
cleared up the cloudiness, that I had attributed to the FFA's, all by 
itself. I'm advocating a prewash pH test with an appropriate indicator
(~6.8--7.2?) so that the acid addition is not excessive. (Must try 
more indicators.) Works for me personally but other operators are 
still heavy handed. These guys are mature and relatively well 
educated, what may happen in a village in the Islands bothers me. 
P.S. If the methanol is left in the fuel does it create a fire hazard 
in rollovers? Bio and diesel have very high flash points, the 
addition of volatile components may compromise the safety aspect.
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Biocides

[gjkimlin]

With one particular truck the available commercial biocides, that 
come with injector cleaner, have failed to sterilise the fuel system. 
The growth is a dark olive flake or film that seems to grow in the 
fuel line as well as the tank and boy does it like biodiesel. What 
biocides have other producers tried and with what level of success?
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Desalination

[gjkimlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

I have used a reverse osmosis desalinator for nearly ten years on 
bore water with 8gms of salt per litre. Costs have averaged at about 
40c AUS (~22cUS?) a kilolitre. The figures in the Californian report 
suggest ~$2US a kilolitre if a household uses 400 kilolitres a year. 
Recent figures on Australian made plants (imported membranes) suggest 
$1.20AUS/kilolitre from sea water. The Aus plants use PVC pipes 
instead of stainless steel and cost 1/5th as much as the fancy 
imported models. They do however look agricultural, which in fact is 
what they are. Six mobile plants are being built to supplement water 
supply for drought affected country towns. 1mega per day at a capital 
cost of $600 000AUS and costing between $400 and $500 per day to run. 
Cost depend on what else is in the water. Heating the water with a 
solar unit can halve or at least greatly reduce the cost per 
kilolitre. The resultant brine should really be evaporated and 
removed to elsewhere, mine goes back into an even deeper and saltier 
aquifer. 
The cost differential could be explained by hugely more expensive 
electricity or a much higher houshold water usage. Even a wastful 
conventional household should use less than 400 kilolitres a year. If 
Californians use more than that, then conservation is the first step.
If the cheaper type of desalinator (plastic)is not generally 
available in your area building them may be a profitable side line 
for some of the more enterprising list members out there. They retail 
for between $3000 and $10 000 AUS for a household plant, depending on 
bore water quality. Exchange rate is about 59cUS per dollar AUS I 
think.
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Australian ethanol and sustainability!

[gjkimlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

I'ts probably over simplistic to say oil has less political influence 
in Australia than in the US. But a real political impediment to 
ethanol in Aus is the Great Barrier Reef. Sugar cane is grown in the 
coastal-monsoonal belt bordered by the Reef, in many places having 
replaced the dryland mangroves in my lifetime. A significant movement 
exists to reduce or even eliminate sugar growing in these areas 
because of the effluent and sediment load reaching the Reef. The 
environmental movement in Australia has great political clout and has 
become the mainstay of "socialist" politics, every State in Australia 
has a "Socialist" government, only the the Federal government is 
Conservative. The real debate must be determined within 
the "environmental" movement itself or perhaps in the "socialist" 
movement itself because of the simple affluence associated with the 
environmentally enlightened in Australia. The part of sustainability 
that requires that the energy needs of the proletariat be met has no 
meaning here. Ecological sustainability is about just that: 
sustaining the ecology in some type of synthetic stasis.
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Re: speedy separation on a large scale

[gjkimlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Hi James, we have been using dairy cream separators to continually 
remove glycerol. There are some problems though if the glycerol gets 
cool too quickly it clogs up the plates. A simple precipitate trap 
like the water trap in a fuel line only bigger has given good 
separation at times. Its just a 4" pipe with the inlet and out let 
pipes at the top. The inlet goes down a few inches through a mesh 
screen. The outlet is above the screen. I use a tap at the bottom to 
remove the gycerol etc. The volume of the pipe is determined by the 
batch size, leave room for all of the glycerol. In series with the 
dairy separators this trap helps to overcome clogging. The methanol 
is added to the pickup after the separators and mixes in the 
centripital pump. The methoxide is added a little at a time so that 
the glycerol is produced slowly, over at least 1/2 an hour. Still 
pretty quick for a batch method. I haven't done much with washing, 
separation of soapy water and fuel seems to need more speed than we 
can muster. Regards from Harry
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, James Slayden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> http://www.wsus.com/
> 
> Although I'm sure there are more companies out there.  BTW, They're 
a new
> partner of the NBB.  Gotta get your advertising somehow    ;-)
> 
> 
> James Slayden
> 
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Tom Branigan wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > can anyone give me a rough idea of the types of centrifuges or 
liquid
> > liquid
> > separation equipment that could be used for the separation of 
glycerol
> > from
> > biodiesel, and the separation of water from biodiesel. (as in 
after
> > washing)
> > I have no expertise in this kind of equipment and would appreciate
> > greatly
> > any help on the matter. I am aiming at a plant to produce 15000 
litres of
> > biodiesel per week.
> > 
> > Tom
> > 
> > _
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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> > 
> > 
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Service.
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[biofuels-biz] Re: Homebrew problems

[gjkimlin]

There's lots of organic acids out there but I wouldn't expect a 
restaurant to be using any that didn't mix with water. A problem that 
often arises with raw oil is high FFA's due to rancidity 
or "biological" oxidation. What organic acids can be formed by 
bacterial digestion is anyone's guess. Some bugs may actually "crack" 
the FFA's and form smaller acid molecules. They certainly can and do 
create high %'s of FFA's. Most WVO has been very hot prior to 
disposal and can last quite a long time before bacterial digestion 
becomes rampant, on top of that most bacteria want a protein or Amino 
Acid source to proliferate, and most would want water. Just what a 
restaurant may pour into their waste oil bin is scarey. Sounds like 
they had some sitting around in the kitchen for a while and some bugs 
got in. We got some that bad from a feed mill but it still had some 
soy "paste" in a water layer under it. I seldom do the production 
batches myself, but when I do I often titrate a sample every ten 
minutes or so in the acid stage to see what is happening and 
occasionally I will titrate against an acid standard in the alkali 
process. Incidentally when titrating for inorganic acid or alkali I 
add 1ml of neutral water to the one ml of oil. There is no substitute 
for titration. I have a lot of trouble getting people to use the 
foolproof method as the standard. Mostly they leave the oil overnight 
to cool after drying so I can't see the objection. Life is much 
simpler without FFA's.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Slayden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Didn't we process a batch from the same resturante that was good 
(ie. a
> later date)?  I thought we did that during class.  And you were 
mentioning
> how unusual it was that you had this bad oil from a formerly good 
source.  
> Had the bad oil experience, then went back and tested again and it 
was
> good oil again?  I guess this is why you say to bring a titration 
test kit
> when "hunting" oil.  ;-)
> 
> What your saying is really logical, that something acidic either 
got mixed
> in or rooting food caused and acidic condition.
> 
> Dunno, although a scenario might be they just tossed some bad
> vinager/acidic crap in the bin.  Operator error is usually the 
cause in
> computer stuff, so why should it be any different with a resturante?
> 
> James Slayden
> 
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, girl mark wrote:
> 
> > This brings up a question I';ve had for a while-
> > 
> > are there other acids besides ffa, that are not water-soluble and 
are
> > found
> > in oils?
> > 
> > We had some particularly terrible oil that titrated at 13 ml, and 
I just
> > couldn't bring myself to believe that it was ffa causing the high 
values
> > in
> > the titration, as that restaurant always had decent oil before 
that
> > particular sample. I tried doing what you're describing- washing 
the oil
> > and pH testing the wash water and also re-titrating the oil layer 
to see
> > if
> > the acidity was something caused by water-solubles (vinegar from 
cooking,
> > or acids from food rotting), and it seemed that it was still 
something
> > insoluble, presumably ffa.
> > thoughts?
> > mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > At 01:21 AM 11/27/2002 +, you wrote:
> > >The problems of quality of homebrew or commercial for that matter
> > >never seem to go away. As much as I would like to pretend that 
our
> > >bio is perfect, I want to share the latest of ours problems with 
the
> > >group in the hope that some one may benefit. I got a call that 
the
> > >fuel from the storage tank had clogged the filter on Tony's crane
> > >truck. Not with algae but with "grease". Bear in mind that it 
been
> > >over 30¡C. I went over the process that Tony had been using. We 
had
> > >been concentrating on fine tuning the separators to continually
> > >remove the glycerol as it formed, the fuel was completely 
reacted and
> > >the temperature was over the melting points of our longest fatty 
acid
> > >esters. The problem had to come from the washing. Now washing is 
a
> > >brutal affair compared with bubble washing and getting the 
emulsion
> > >to break involves acidifying the water(slightly I would have 
hoped.).
> > >I ran some thick "cream" from the bottom drain of the storage 
tank
> > >and tested it for FFA's by mixing with neutral water and 
titrating
> > >the layers. The water remained neutral but the "oil" took ² ml of
> > >standard NaOH . I deduced that I was dealing with FFA's not an
> > >inorganic acid. After performing a number of trials using acid
> > >catalysis and the three alcohols on hand. I found that the 
controls
> > >using alcohol alone reduced the acid number and clarified the
> > >product. Addition of < 5% of methanol without the addition of
> > >Sulphuric clarified the goop within 30 minutes  at ambient
> > >temperature.
> > >We modified the post washing stage . Drying was achieved by 
heating
> > >the fuel to 115¡ while pumping from the bottom and spraying over
> > >the "open" top. As t

[biofuels-biz] Homebrew problems

[gjkimlin]

The problems of quality of homebrew or commercial for that matter 
never seem to go away. As much as I would like to pretend that our 
bio is perfect, I want to share the latest of ours problems with the 
group in the hope that some one may benefit. I got a call that the 
fuel from the storage tank had clogged the filter on Tony's crane 
truck. Not with algae but with "grease". Bear in mind that it been 
over 30¡C. I went over the process that Tony had been using. We had 
been concentrating on fine tuning the separators to continually 
remove the glycerol as it formed, the fuel was completely reacted and 
the temperature was over the melting points of our longest fatty acid 
esters. The problem had to come from the washing. Now washing is a 
brutal affair compared with bubble washing and getting the emulsion 
to break involves acidifying the water(slightly I would have hoped.). 
I ran some thick "cream" from the bottom drain of the storage tank 
and tested it for FFA's by mixing with neutral water and titrating 
the layers. The water remained neutral but the "oil" took ² ml of 
standard NaOH . I deduced that I was dealing with FFA's not an 
inorganic acid. After performing a number of trials using acid 
catalysis and the three alcohols on hand. I found that the controls 
using alcohol alone reduced the acid number and clarified the 
product. Addition of < 5% of methanol without the addition of 
Sulphuric clarified the goop within 30 minutes  at ambient 
temperature. 
We modified the post washing stage . Drying was achieved by heating 
the fuel to 115¡ while pumping from the bottom and spraying over 
the "open" top. As the dry fuel cooled to <60¡C 2% methanol was added 
and the lid closed for recirculating. Once cool, ~30¡C, this fuel was 
pumped across to the storage vat.  I have neglected research on the 
washing stage, hopefully we can shorten this step as well. When the 
separators work well a 200l batch can be reacted and separated to 
completion in under an hour. I believe that the separators would have 
to spin much faster to be of use in post-wash separation. I have 
designed a simple vertical centrifuge to take the place of the dairy 
separators. If I get around to building it I'll post the results.



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[biofuels-biz] Re: Move to reduce the area farmed in Australia.

[gjkimlin]

Hi Kieth,
I did read the micro niche bit- good lateral thinking. Most, probably 
more than 90% of our grain is grown without irrigation. The massive 
volcanic ash plains simply don't have major river systems the 
rainfall is too low and that's in the good years. Organic methods 
work well on this soil and outperforms conventional dryland farming 
in dryer than normal years. Profound drought is another matter, ten 
dry years more or less in a row are expected in a fifty year cycle. 
Long range forcasts from the sixties predicted this one and 
apparently it ends with floods in 94 or 96 I* forget which. Here 
nearer the coast we have had about 1/2 an inch in the last six 
months, I'm having trouble getting enough salt water to run the RO 
machine that waters my orchids. A lot of effort goes into drought 
resisant grain, a grain alcohol plant has been started, unfortunately 
no grain. Further North in the monsoon belt there is another ash 
plain, it is natural grass land- not a tree for miles, ground water 
is too deep. Dams and irrigation systems that take advantage of the 
wet season have been tried further west- the wild life ate the first 
crops, only non food crops work and the water must be moved in pipes. 
Those areas are thousands of kilometers from domestic markets which 
is why they have not been developed before. There is some room for 
irrigation schemes on the appropriate soils etc. But not where the 
rivers travel for three thousand Ks to reach the Southern Ocean.  --- 
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Harry
> 
> Sounds like the solution might be worse than the problem.
> 
> Maybe there are other ways of looking at it. There certainly are 
> better ways to utilize drylands for agriculture than just 
irrigation 
> and the industrialized approach. Good drought-resistant grains, for 
> instance (sorghum, millet?) could give you both ethanol (from the 
> starch and potentially from the crop "wastes" too, though they 
might 
> be better mulched) and the livestock feed the farmers are producing 
> now, in the form of DDG.
> 
> This previous message may be worth a look, on the potential of 
> micro-niche biofuels production, which seems to be huge:
> 
> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=1395&list=BIOFUELS-BIZ
> How much fuel can we grow?
> 
> I think there are a lot of solutions, short of making all the 
rivers 
> run uphill. Sustainable drylands farming is certainly possible, and 
> it looks like being something a lot of folks will just have to 
learn. 
> Modern agriculture's profligacy with water is just about as 
critical 
> as modern society's profligacy with energy, and not just from an 
> environmental point of view - it's just as likely to be a cause of 
> warfare.
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Much of Australia is currently in the grip of an ongoing drought. 
In
> >association with some commendable community support initiatives,
> >particularly the Red Cross "Farmhand Appeal" this has brought to 
the
> >fore the old idea of "drought-proofing" Australia. A notable 
response
> >to this publicity was the formation of the "Wentworth Group"
> >including some eminent ecologists and Professor Williams the head 
of
> >the CSIRO Land and Water unit. This group attacked the proposals
> >rather strongly. I must agree at least to the point that turning 
our
> >rivers inland could cause untold ecological damage to coastal 
waters.
> >There has been much discussion around the topic of overcommitting 
the
> >water resource. Apparently much of the current salinity problem 
that
> >Williams works on is associated with inland irrigation schemes.
> >It seems that we may not be able to sustainably cultivate much of 
our
> >soil resource including much that is currently cultivated. 
Apparently
> >removing the native vegetation even for grazing allows the ground
> >water to accumulate and bring salts to the surface. (The salts have
> >apparently been accumulated in the deep root-zone of the native
> >vegetation over geologic time) Inland Australia has insufficient
> >rainfall to flush these salts through our river-systems without
> >creating saline streams.
> >How much, if any, of this is an over reaction remains to be seen
> >however one thing is clear: there is substantial resistance in the
> >Australian community to growth in the farming effort, either by
> >intensifying with irrigation or expansion by clearing previously
> >uncommitted land.
> >This must impact on proposals to grow sugar-cane for ethanol or 
veggy
> >oil crops for biodiesel.
> >Around here most farmers grow stockfeed rather than food as such, 
so
> >there must be room for some lateral thought. Still the question 
must
> >be asked, to what degree can we allow our natural ecosystems(on and
> >off farm) to be modified to grow our fuel?


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[biofuels-biz] Move to reduce the area farmed in Australia.

[gjkimlin]

Much of Australia is currently in the grip of an ongoing drought. In 
association with some commendable community support initiatives, 
particularly the Red Cross "Farmhand Appeal" this has brought to the 
fore the old idea of "drought-proofing" Australia. A notable response 
to this publicity was the formation of the "Wentworth Group" 
including some eminent ecologists and Professor Williams the head of 
the CSIRO Land and Water unit. This group attacked the proposals 
rather strongly. I must agree at least to the point that turning our 
rivers inland could cause untold ecological damage to coastal waters.
There has been much discussion around the topic of overcommitting the 
water resource. Apparently much of the current salinity problem that 
Williams works on is associated with inland irrigation schemes.
It seems that we may not be able to sustainably cultivate much of our 
soil resource including much that is currently cultivated. Apparently 
removing the native vegetation even for grazing allows the ground 
water to accumulate and bring salts to the surface. (The salts have 
apparently been accumulated in the deep root-zone of the native 
vegetation over geologic time) Inland Australia has insufficient 
rainfall to flush these salts through our river-systems without 
creating saline streams.
How much, if any, of this is an over reaction remains to be seen 
however one thing is clear: there is substantial resistance in the 
Australian community to growth in the farming effort, either by 
intensifying with irrigation or expansion by clearing previously 
uncommitted land. 
This must impact on proposals to grow sugar-cane for ethanol or veggy 
oil crops for biodiesel.
Around here most farmers grow stockfeed rather than food as such, so 
there must be room for some lateral thought. Still the question must 
be asked, to what degree can we allow our natural ecosystems(on and 
off farm) to be modified to grow our fuel? 


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Statistics

[gjkimlin]

Hi Matt,
Kieth will most likely have access to the stats. I can give an 
opinion on the different feed stocks.
Both price and politics seem to be involved. For example here it may 
be easier to get Cotton producers interested in bio diesel because 
they need better bio-credentials. Soy farmers in the US appear to 
have some political clout and since the bio sells at more than petro 
diesel price, they may get close to the regular market price for 
their oil. Certain strains of canola have shorter chain saturated FAs 
and so have a lower iodine number- this apparently reduces 
polymerisation to plastics in the fuel tank compared with other oils-
or so the anti soy lobby in Europe tells us. On the other hand the 
cropping conditions in some places determines which oilseed crop will 
grow best. Palm oil residues can be imported for about 15cUS/ litre, 
or at least it should in bulk. The small lots that I import for 
trials in Queensland cost a fair bit more because of the gouging that 
goes on on our wharves. Still in some locations it would be a great 
addition to WVO to give economy of scale and fuel that can compete 
against Dino diesel for price.
Essentially I believe that the divergence is currently political.
Regards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "triafro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know of a source for biodiesel production statistics 
> around the world, i.e by country?  I just can't find one anywhere.
> 
> Also I am a little confused by the choice of raw material for the 
> production of biofuel, obviously I understand the logic of using 
> waste oil where possible but I mean crop oils.  The USA uses soy 
> mostly doesn't it?  And coconut and avocado etc have some of the 
> highest oil yields I think, yet oil seed rape accounts for 80% of 
> biofuel production and sunflower oil 10% I think I read somewhere.  
> Is the reasoning behind this the Iodine Value (IV) of the oil 
written 
> about on the www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_yield.html (which I 
do 
> not pretend to fully understand!!) or is more to do with production 
> volume and crop price i.e economic factors?  Therefore, I guess I 
am 
> asking if there is a scientific and economic divergence in the 
> production philosophies of biofuels that industry has to bridge?  
If 
> so, how are they currently accomplishing it?  Do you agree with the 
> way that they are doing it or do you think this should be/will be 
> changed in the future?
> 
> Sorry it got so long winded.  Hope you can help.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Matt


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[biofuels-biz] High FFA, glycerol & other stuff

[gjkimlin]

Been off-line for a while and had to catch up.
There are two relevant processes I should have reported on. Found 
them half written in my drafts folder. Small ABI problem.
1. We have been purifying glycerol to at least 95% for some time.
A. Add deionised water at 50% and hot mix.
B. Neutralize as per titration with Phosphoric.
C. Chill in cold room. The "oily" layer, which appears to be 
partially reacted glycerides and oil and a little bio, (remember that 
there is an excess of glycerol) virtually freeze separates from the 
solution of salts, glycerol and water.
D.Carbon filter
E.Deionize in a triple column.
F.Evaporate the water using vacuum and heat.
NOTE: Deionisation is not nessessary for some applications of 
glycerol.
I lucked out on a deionizer at auction for $20 and was able to 
convert it to the appropriate beads.
Precipitation of Catalyst using phosphoric was the key--Thanks Alexs!!
My own glycerol is good enough to sell without the dionisation-Check 
out the retail cost of a litre of pure glycerine.

For Micheal!!
2.Worked on the Palm oil "pond scum" that results from the washing of 
fruit~30% FFA
 Essentially foolproof method worked well on small lots, producing 
good product at better than 85%, little soap-needed to remove water 
between steps.
Now have a pallet (800L)of same stuff for a trial using our Shade-
tree 120 litre plant.
Found experimentally that sequential addition of 95% Sulphuric 
effectively restarts the initially rapid reaction part of the 
reaction rate graph in the acid stage reaction, this allows a 
commercially viable batch time--Probably sequesters the water as you 
suggested somewhere.
Should start trial this week. On the other hand my boat trailer needs 
fixing.
We now use a pair of dairy separators($400) to continually remove 
glycerol in Base reaction, All out within 5 rotations of the batch 
volume. Much improved glycerol quality-important see above. With 
waste oil our results are much more consistent. Allows a batch time 
of <1hour from mixing to washing. I have two more separators to add.
 Kieth
Oh soap!! Converted a small batch(of soap) to FFA using standard Palm 
Oil technique (sulphuric) followed by Acid process with the 
sequential addition of Acid- seemed to work OK, I think its mostly 
esters.
I'll have to make a batch of soap to do a trial so don't hold your 
breath, but it seems to work.
That's all, don't be afraid to pester me for the results of the palm 
oil waste trial, my memory lets me down sometimes.
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel vs, er, loft insulation??

[gjkimlin]

I have only had time for a quick look, enough to concern me about a 
few subtle flaws as far as objectivity goes. I will study the body, 
at least it may be instructive as to the type of study that will 
survive critical scrutiny. A number of sources re: pollution benefits 
were apparently discounted as anecdotal. The context is important, it 
may be that the funding was specific to CO2 benefits, I will review 
it as I would a scientific literature review. Cheers fra Harry
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Camillo Holecek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> I did read through it, and I can not see what is so bizzare about 
that
> study. We have seen worse.
> Where they fail in their efford to be transparent, is the 
high "primary
> energy input" given for esterification. Seems that this includes the
> methanol input, but this is not stated or explained.
> 
> In total, a result of 0.51 MJ conventional input for 1 MJ renewable 
BD
> output is average for studies that look at rape seed Biodiesel AND 
it
> does give BD an edge over dinodiesel (where you have to put an 
extra 1,2
> MJ dino input to deliver 1MJ dino output at the pump!).
> 
> Also it is not explained why they are mad enough to transesterify
> refined rape seed oil. Raw will do just fine, as we all know.
> 
> An intelligent system of course would use BD where ever possible in 
the
> growing of the oil seed OR used veg. oil as the clever feedstock. 
But
> they are starting, they may still learn  ;-)
> 
> Camillo Holecek
> Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH,
> Austria
> 
> -UrsprŸngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Juli 2002 18:02
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel vs, er, loft insulation??
> 
> 
> For a bizarre read, try this:
> 
> 20/1 Evaluation of the Comparative Energy, Environmental and Social 
> Costs and Benefits of Biodiesel (pdf ~496kb)
> http://www.shu.ac.uk/rru/scp20-1r.pdf
> 
> Forwarded to me by a less-than-thrilled Dave Preskett.
> 
> These guys have also set up a forum for discussion of their report:
> http://143.52.119.8/SED/RRU/Biodiesel/
> 
> There's only one message so far, from Terry de Winne, being on the 
> ball as usual:
> http://143.52.119.8/SED/RRU/Biodiesel/Lists/Biodiesel%
20Report/DispFor 
> m.htm?ID=2&Source=http%3A%2F%2F143%2E52%2E119%2E8%2FSED%2FRRU%
2FBiodie 
> sel%2F
> 
> Valiant effort at being polite.
> 
> I suggest he could use some support - this foolish report should be 
> scotched before it does harm.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Biofuel at WebConX
> http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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> http://archive.nnytech.net/
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> 
>  
> 
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[biofuels-biz] Re: Energy Scandals and Climate Tragedies

[gjkimlin]

 the stilts or afford to move should they be washed
> out. Not all islanders are "rich." Not all Ausies are warm and
> welcome hearted, saying "It's okay. Come pitch your  tent in my
> back yard. Bring your family and your goats until the next ice
> age cometh." Hell, in this country people not only won't give
> back trible land whose title has been legally proven in the
> judicial system, they keep trying to pinch the poorest of the
> poor and quarantine them into domiciles that look like
> refrigerator boxes (some of which are).
> 
> What makes you think that people in any hemisphere are going to
> welcome dislocated persons with open arms...at least not unless
> they have $20,000 credit account with VISA or MasterCard. But
> then they'll only be welcome until the credit runs out and
> doubtful if they would be welcome to marry anyone's sister.
> 
> Oh...but it's not so bad. Some of us will still be able to
> continue with 50 gallon spritz baths twice daily. Should it
> really bother me if entire populations can't find enough water to
> boil a potato, or can't find a potato... period? Is it really so
> bad that some people will lose their livlihoods and their lives
> while others will make out quite well?
> 
> Ever ask yourself what they call 6 inches of rainfall in 4 hours
> in comparison to 6 inches of rainfall in 4 days or 4 weeks? One
> is called desert and/or flood, the other is more habitable and
> probably arable.
> 
> And finally...as if there's really not volumes more to
> express...even though I jumped the gun by implying the geological
> time frames of evolution somewhere in "the middle of the horse,"
> rather than the front, you could give some thought about how
> under a natural regimen of change species have the opportunity to
> adapt and migrate... even those tortoise like giants called
> Trees.
> 
> No..., proportional to geological time, global warming as a
> result of human contribution is more akin to a moon sized meteor
> hitting the earth, forcing nearly overnite extinction and
> borderline survival for many species. There is certainly no
> justification for creating such havoc, even though we can and
> are. And there is certainly no justification for accepting such
> havoc simply because we can "adapt."
> 
> Ever asked yourself how it is that a world dies? Not much
> different than any animal...bit by bit and cell by cell it ceases
> to function, until the total balance can no longer support its
> own existance.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: gjkimlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 8:51 AM
> Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Energy Scandals and Climate Tragedies
> 
> 
> > I know that I can be a little thick but can some one help me to
> get
> > this problem with climate change. Perhaps the rapidity and
> direction
> > of climate change has been affected by human intervention but
> so
> > what? Nothing in nature is constant and natural systems must
> have
> > evolved to cope with change. Man is probably the most adaptable
> of
> > animals. With more energy in the system weather events will be
> more
> > extreme but wouldn't that mean shorter droughts as well? OK
> moving a
> > desert is going to alter realestate prices but does that mean
> that
> > world wide productivity will be reduced? Storm surges will
> probably
> > make some Islands uninhabitable but there is plenty of room in
> > Australia for those near us and by the looks of things those
> > Islanders with money have already come here, it's just a matter
> of
> > taking the rest. I'm not in favour of the things that have
> caused
> > global warming, nonrenewable resources should not be wasted but
> is
> > this real or just a supporting argument for sustainability?
> > The literature on this is so vast I can't read it all so has
> anyone
> > come across the stuff I need, something that doesn't simply
> assume
> > that change is bad or count the cost of moving uphill in $US.
> > Thanks from Harry.
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13450
> > > AlterNet --
> > > Energy Scandals and Climate Tragedies
> > > Michel Gelobter, AlterNet
> > > June 24, 2002
> > >
> > > The controversy over the recent release of the 2002 Climate
> Action
> > > Report by the Environmental Protection Agency is just the
> latest in
> > a
> > > series of environment

[biofuels-biz] The prefered FA content of oils for biodiesel production.

[gjkimlin]

Steve and I have been discussing the breeding of the perfect oil 
plant. I will do some comparisions of the FA content of cultivars 
where the FA composition is known. Meanwhile I'll start comment with: 
carbon chains of between 12 and 16 preferably monounsaturates i.e. 
one double bond. My reasoning is that much shorter and the Cetane 
falls and combustion temperatures rise(more NOx)and much longer and 
the cloud point gets too high. Any thoughts out there?
Regards from Harry.
PS If you don't see it soon remind me to post the results of the use 
of recycled Dairy separators and the enhanced acid method for rapid 
conversion of FFA's. I did forget to post the graph of FA 
reduction /Time from the titration series on the acid catalyst method.


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[biofuels-biz] Re: No more French fry WVO?

[gjkimlin]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/06/06252002/ap_47645.asp
> > - 6/25/2002
> > WHO hosts urgent meeting on acrylamide in food
> 
> Permit me to carry the thought process a wee tad further for us
> common laypersons.
> 
> Anyone ever given much thought to the decay product of glycerin
> under conditions of inadequate combustion? Oddly enough it's call
> acrolein - rather toxic to living things, especially breathing
> "things,"  at least according to every MSDS sheet I've read.
> 
> So take that "decay consideration," slap a bunch of potato shreds
> in a high temp tri-glyceride bath, or bake a grain product with a
> high oil content, and what might you think you'll get? Perhaps
> acrilomide?
> 
> Glycerin, in the form of triglycerides, exposed to semi-high
> temps of frying and baking...~350* Fahrenheit.
> 
> But then there is this statement:
> 
> "The Swedish researchers said that "fried, oven-baked, and
> deep-fried potato and cereal products may contain high levels of
> acrylamide." The same results were not found in boiled products."
> 
> A bit odd that water boils at 212* Fahrenheit, ~140* lower and a
> considerably less "destructive" temp range than baking or frying.
> 
> Makes one wonder if there won't be a rush in the appliance and
> food processing markets for products that can cook foods in the
> temperature range of boiling, rather than frying and baking.
> 
> Also makes one wonder if there won't be a rush for oils that are
> 100% FFAs, rather than a blend of tri-glycerides and FFAs. That
> would sure throw a kink in biodiesel manufacture when using waste
> restaurant oils. It would force every shadetree biodieseler to
> move towards high pressure esterification, rather than "STP"
> transesterification.
> 
> It would also put some pressure on the animal feed and rendering
> industries to move away from using reprocessed WVOs as
> protein/energy additives to feed. Would be a shame to kill the
> AKC registered family pet simply by feeding it Puppy Chow.
> 
> Todd Swearingen


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Engine makers, refiners can meet US diesel rule - EPA

[gjkimlin]

Although they don't have to yet, some reports have it that Queensland 
refineries are producing ultra low sulphur diesel. The two problems 
have been damage to pump seals and a loss of lubricity. So much so 
that adding bio gives a good 10% drop in fuel usage with apparent 
increases in speed despite lower energy content.
Harry
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/16585/story.htm
> Planet Ark :
> Engine makers, refiners can meet US diesel rule - EPA
> 
> USA: June 26, 2002
> 
> WASHINGTON - U.S. diesel engine manufacturers and petroleum 
refiners 
> should have no problem in meeting new federal standards to reduce 
the 
> amount of sulfur in diesel fuel, according to a new Environmental 
> Protection Agency report.
> 
> The report was a blow to the U.S. oil industry, which complained it 
> would have a tough time complying with the EPA's goal of cutting 
the 
> sulfur level in diesel fuel by 97 percent to just 15 parts per 
> million (ppm).
> 
> Refiners must begin producing the cleaner diesel by 2006. Large 
> trucks, buses and other heavy duty vehicles must be on the market 
by 
> 2007 with engines that can process the fuel.
> 
> The EPA's report, which was released on Friday and is now being 
> reviewed by an advisory panel this week, found that both industries 
> are "making significant progress" in meeting the lower sulfur 
> requirements.
> 
> Some refiners are ahead of schedule and will be capable of 
producing 
> the diesel fuel with the low sulfur levels as early as next year, 
it 
> said.
> 
> "We are very encouraged by the actions some refiners have already 
> taken in terms of announcing specific plan for low sulfur diesel 
fuel 
> production," the EPA said.
> 
> Nonetheless, small refiners will be given up to four additional 
years 
> to meet the new standards.
> 
> In addition, refiners that supply fuel to western states and Alaska 
> will have until 2008 to produce the low-sulfur fuel.
> 
> Separately, the EPA said engine makers plan to use technology that 
> already exists to build engines with special filters that could 
> process the cleaner diesel fuel.
> 
> "Although it is still early in the process, every major engine 
> manufacturer that we visited told us that they expect to have 
> emission-compliant products in 2007," EPA said.
> 
> The oil industry and other business groups had sued the EPA in an 
> effort to block the sulfur guidelines.
> 
> Oil companies said the EPA requirements would cause them to close 
> refiners instead of making expensive modifications to their 
> facilities, resulting in fuel supply shortages and higher diesel 
> prices.
> 
> However, a federal court ruled last month in favor of the agency's 
> rule making, saying technology was available to make diesel fuel 
that 
> emitted fewer sulfur emissions.
> 
> Story by Tom Doggett
> 
> REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Energy Scandals and Climate Tragedies

[gjkimlin]

I know that I can be a little thick but can some one help me to get 
this problem with climate change. Perhaps the rapidity and direction 
of climate change has been affected by human intervention but so 
what? Nothing in nature is constant and natural systems must have 
evolved to cope with change. Man is probably the most adaptable of 
animals. With more energy in the system weather events will be more 
extreme but wouldn't that mean shorter droughts as well? OK moving a 
desert is going to alter realestate prices but does that mean that 
world wide productivity will be reduced? Storm surges will probably 
make some Islands uninhabitable but there is plenty of room in 
Australia for those near us and by the looks of things those 
Islanders with money have already come here, it's just a matter of 
taking the rest. I'm not in favour of the things that have caused 
global warming, nonrenewable resources should not be wasted but is 
this real or just a supporting argument for sustainability?
The literature on this is so vast I can't read it all so has anyone 
come across the stuff I need, something that doesn't simply assume 
that change is bad or count the cost of moving uphill in $US.
Thanks from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13450
> AlterNet --
> Energy Scandals and Climate Tragedies
> Michel Gelobter, AlterNet
> June 24, 2002
> 
> The controversy over the recent release of the 2002 Climate Action 
> Report by the Environmental Protection Agency is just the latest in 
a 
> series of environmental controversies to hit the Bush 
Administration.
> 
> Before people were left to try solving the riddle of President 
Bush's 
> actual climate change position, they witnessed a series of 
> energy-related scandals that dogged Washington. Whether it was 
Enron, 
> the California energy crisis, or the deliberations into the 
> Bush-Cheney Energy Plan, troubling signals emanate from the White 
> House with disturbing frequency.
> 
> Take, for example, the release of documents tying Energy Secretary 
> Spencer Abraham to meetings with donors, whose campaign 
contributions 
> to both parties since 1999 topped $29 million. The payoff from 
those 
> meetings was almost a thousandfold: legislation embodying $27 
billion 
> in subsidies.
> 
> Believe it or not, this rich harvest is dwarfed by a decision the 
> Bush Administration has already implemented: the U.S. withdrawal 
from 
> the Kyoto Protocol on Climate Change. Had the U.S. respected our 
> commitment to action on this critical issue, recent studies, 
> including our own, have shown that the net cost to American fossil 
> fuel industries could have been more than $45 billion a year. By 
> contrast, estimates of the benefits of good climate policy to the 
> economy as a whole range as high as $120 billion a year by 2020. 
> While our economy took the hit, the energy industry walked away 
from 
> the President's policy with its biggest payday ever.
> 
> So while the fossil fuel industry cashes in on our climate 
reversal, 
> who pays? First, the vast majority of American businesses. If the 
> U.S. adopted a policy to internalize the climate-related costs of 
> energy use, it would spawn a vast "double dividend." Redirected 
> investments would spur employment and send new investments where 
they 
> belong, in companies fueled by workers and innovation instead of 
> dependence on foreign oil.
> 
> Furthermore, the reversal of American climate policy devalues other 
> industry groups relative to fossil fuel. Because fossil fuel use is 
> subsidized by bad climate policy, we use more of it than we should. 
> Energy industries artificially appear to be better investments than 
> they really are and attract capital investment that could be used 
> more productively in the rest of the economy.
> 
> A second victim of the energy industry's climate subsidy is our 
> national security. Adopting the Kyoto Protocol could reduce by 2020 
> our dependence on oil by over 25%. There may not be a linear 
> relationship between this number and the geo-political risks 
created 
> by our dependence on oil-producing states, but we sorely need the 
> flexibility that independence would allow.
> 
> Because global warming is, after all, global, its effects threaten 
> our security in the long-run as well. The U.S., which represents 4% 
> of the world population, emits 25% of the carbon dioxide from 
fossil 
> fuel, and we are historically responsible for over 35% of 
greenhouse 
> gasses presently trapped in the atmosphere. As the impacts of our 
> emissions become more clear with time, our reputation may grow from 
> pariah on climate policy to responsible party for the natural 
> disasters that climate change will entrain. Barring rapid action on 
> our part, events like the submersion of 57% of Bangladesh in 1998 
or 
> last month's rapid breakup of Antarctic ice may increasingly be 
> linked to Am

[biofuels-biz] Re: FW: Earth Can't Meet Human Demand for Resources(Stupid Study)

[gjkimlin]

Sorry Kieth, I really don't know what sense of humor Ed has he could 
well have been motivated only to inform and in fairness I would 
otherwise not have read the report. I seriously doubt that the 
Editors or fellows of the NAS take any work that they publish 
as "gospel". I expect that they feel that the work simply contributes 
to the debate and I agree that it does, I did get the impression that 
it "leant" in a direction that I thought unhelpful, hope I'm wrong.
I'v been involved with disability and other social issues so long I 
do tend to believe that anyone who wants to limit the resources 
available to the poor is an enemy of mankind. Yes in those issues I 
do quite consciously leave science behind. Science and logic can 
comfortably argue in favour of unpleasant population control measures 
or limits on the human share of resources. My concerns were that by 
trying to grow our fuel we may have been tipping the ledger further 
against the capacity of the environment to provide, you convinced me 
that that was not the case. Believe it or not there are people out 
there who do believe that limiting health care budgets is a 
legitimate way to reduce the burden on the environment. Maybe that's 
an Australian phenomena, perhaps conservationists globally are not so 
bloody minded. To me sustainability will always be about meeting the 
needs of people. As far as wasteful life styles are concerned the 
degree of waste is measured by income, my views on limiting income 
are very practical conservation, just not palatable to some. To me a 
conservation movement without a socialist agenda is dangerous, just 
more capitalists playing the game in a different way after different 
enhancements to their lifestyle at the expense of some-one else. 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A couple of things, Harry. First, that is NOT trolling. People 
> posting information you don't agree with and that is not 
necessarily 
> off-topic is not trolling. Trolling is baiting, and I doubt you 
> seriously think Ed posted that message as bait.
> 
> Second, the research has been done by qualified people belonging to 
a 
> reputable group, and is being published in the Proceedings of the 
> National Academy of Sciences, which is certainly a reputable 
journal. 
> Are you saying that the otherwise sentient editors at the PNAS 
> somehow suspended their critical faculties in order to accept this 
> "crap" as gospel? What cause do you have to dismiss this report so 
> casually?
> 
> You and I have tussled over closely related issues in the past, and 
I 
> don't think any evidence emerged that my view was any less sentient 
> than yours. On the other hand, you made some statements you were 
> unable to substantiate, and ended up preferring scepticism but 
being 
> unable to say why. So maybe it was your sentience that was 
suspended. 
> I tend to think so, and this bears it out - this is just a knee-
jerk 
> rejection, not a considered response.
> 
> Man, I do love it when people pooh-pooh the damage their wasteful 
> lifestyles cause and then say "let's get on with something 
practical"!
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Steady Dave they are just trolling.
> >Unfortunately this type of "release" is taken as gospel by many
> >otherwise sentient people. In the Australian context too many of 
them
> >are in the public service. The context needs to be considered, we
> >generally represent the people of the world whose needs are being
> >met. Members of many of these conservation oriented groups are
> >amoungst the wealthiest, note the celebrities used to promote
> >projects like Olivia Newton Johns reafforest Australia campaign. 
That
> >less than 25% of Australia was forest under aboriginal permaculture
> >doesnt come into it. Australia actually has more than 25% under
> >forest and the tree density is often unsustainable. The real at 
risk
> >ecosystems are open woodland and native grassland. The ones that 
can
> >be preserved with good forest grazing practices. People whos needs
> >are met have no trouble putting millions of hectares of otherwise
> >productive land under carbon sequestering trees to slow climate
> >change. Afer all the change may well threaten their obscene share 
of
> >the worlds resources.
> >Having said that let me also say that we really must limit our use 
of
> >resources to what we actually need, waste does no one good nor do
> >practices that ultimately reduce the productive capacity of the
> >renewable resources that we need.
> >My view is simple enough, the amount of resources a person uses is
> >measured by their income, a cap on income limits waste.
> >Redistribution of "excess" income via taxation to pay for public
> >services that ensure an effective lower limit of income for the 
poor
> >is the most "achievable" method of redustributing income.
> >Not all sustainability types agree with me but its a good way of
> >distinguishing between the "greedy" conservationist (I like my high

[biofuels-biz] Re: FW: Earth Can't Meet Human Demand for Resources(Stupid Study)

[gjkimlin]

Steady Dave they are just trolling. 
Unfortunately this type of "release" is taken as gospel by many 
otherwise sentient people. In the Australian context too many of them 
are in the public service. The context needs to be considered, we 
generally represent the people of the world whose needs are being 
met. Members of many of these conservation oriented groups are 
amoungst the wealthiest, note the celebrities used to promote 
projects like Olivia Newton Johns reafforest Australia campaign. That 
less than 25% of Australia was forest under aboriginal permaculture 
doesnt come into it. Australia actually has more than 25% under 
forest and the tree density is often unsustainable. The real at risk 
ecosystems are open woodland and native grassland. The ones that can 
be preserved with good forest grazing practices. People whos needs 
are met have no trouble putting millions of hectares of otherwise 
productive land under carbon sequestering trees to slow climate 
change. Afer all the change may well threaten their obscene share of 
the worlds resources. 
Having said that let me also say that we really must limit our use of 
resources to what we actually need, waste does no one good nor do 
practices that ultimately reduce the productive capacity of the 
renewable resources that we need. 
My view is simple enough, the amount of resources a person uses is 
measured by their income, a cap on income limits waste. 
Redistribution of "excess" income via taxation to pay for public 
services that ensure an effective lower limit of income for the poor 
is the most "achievable" method of redustributing income.
Not all sustainability types agree with me but its a good way of 
distinguishing between the "greedy" conservationist (I like my high 
income lifestyle but do these peasants have to breath so much air) 
and the genuine conservationist who's political solution includes 
increased taxes for incomes over double the full time male average.
Meanwhile Dave just work away on the practical solutions.
Regards from Harry

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is such crap.  Do all of you really believe this?  Are we all 
doomed to 
> eating dirt and living in caves?
> 
> This is the first that I have responded to you all after having 
subscribed to 
> the shat line on Biofuels.  I'm making and selling Biodiesel.  
There's a huge 
> market for it and it works s well.  What, for the most part do 
you people 
> do?;  Believe in this Hokum about earth's short resources and 
emanate death 
> due to human activity?  What Crap and very unscientific.
> 
> I still want to check in on your chat about Biofuel so I'll stick 
around 
> until you whack out completely
> 
> Any questions from an actual producer?
> 
> Dave Edmondson
> Ferndale, WA


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Selection for oilseed with an ideal FA composition for biodiesel.

[gjkimlin]

Thanks Steve, quite a smogasbord of oils, I'll dig out the european 
study. It would have been one of the references that Kieth posted. 
The WVO we get would take some cleaning up to use without conversion 
so we haven't looked at that. I intend to get back to the Dalby guys, 
if they are into alcohol from sorgum they may be interested 
eventually in commercial bio from canola or sunflower. I'd be relying 
on your advice for the appropriate oilseed to grow on the Downs. 
Chemtech seem to use a similar formulation for biocide. Something 
lives in Tony's fuel tank, you wouldn't believe the amount of algae 
that grows overnight. He cleaned the tank after the last episode, 
either he didn't get it all or his diesel supplier has a problem.
What costs/ton do you estimate for your home grown oil? The problem 
with selection for the most suitable cultivars, as I see it, is that 
you need ready access to a LG chromatograph or similar equipment to 
determine the FA composition. I'd like to have a go at that, I still 
have an unused tissue lab sitting here. Anyone got some Jatropha seed 
to send me? 
Please excuse the typing, I'm not wearing my glasses, and can't read 
what I'm writing.Regards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day Harry, the FA analysis I posted was made with cold pressed 
sunflower
> oil. I have got my hands on a few hundred kilos of Canola which I 
will crush
> in a couple of weeks time (when cropping is out of the way) and 
process into
> BD, and hopefully will have up to a tonne of Mustard in August to 
try. I have
> planted some Canola (Pioneer 47CO2) which will be grown and stored 
on farm to
> be crushed for BD and I will also try running some as a SVO 
conversion in my
> trusty old ute. I purchased a Vege-therm from Edward (looks well 
made) and
> Iwill make up a SVO kit. Have you played around with SVO Harry? 
Your comments
> would be appreciated.
> Oh, by the way, the FA analysis you have of the European BD would be
> interesting to see...if you don't mindand no, I haven't tried 
my BD in
> the freezer yet.
> Your biocide sounds interesting...and I guess you don't buy it from 
a
> hardware shop!!
> 
> gjkimlin wrote:
> 
> > Hi Steve, I compared the FA composition that you posted with some 
in
> > the european literature. What strain are you growing? The European
> > crop specifically grown for bio seems to be called "OO" or"00"
> > probably because it has zero 22C FAs. Have you cooled your bio to
> > determine the cloud or pour point? I would be interested. The 
stuff
> > we make from the WVO is variable, some cafes use cottonseed, some
> > palm oil and some a mysterious "blend" that could even be re-
refined
> > WVO though I suspect that this is supposed to be exported to 
China.
> > Either way we have to winterise, it being winter and all.
> > A sorgum based ethanol plant is being constructed in Dalby, 
hopefully
> > they will be an affordable source of fuel grade ethanol for mixing
> > with the bio. The stuff that we use for a biocide is an ester 
between
> > butyl and ethyl alcohols, 2-butoxy ethanol or butyl glycol ether. 
Its
> > probably used as a winterizer in higher amounts. Its used as a 
grease
> > cutter in truck wash and I suspect that its a solvent for 
cellulose.
> > One hell of a solvent, wouldn't want it in the creek.
> >
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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[biofuels-biz] Re: WVO and Renewables Obligation

[gjkimlin]

The ACREVO report states that: . "Short-chained coconut and palm 
kernel oil methyl ester have distinct emission advantages in terms of 
hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, particulate matter and polycyclic 
aromatic hydrocarbons, but disadvantages as far as nitric oxides are 
concerned" it goes on to say that the RME used in Europe has 
minimally more NOx than diesel. Your problem is that of a mixed 
feedstock, in Australia a lot of animal fat is used in cooking, Macas 
and KFC use hard vegetable oils. The mixed oils contain longerchain 
FAs that burn better, cetane and pollution wise but have quite high 
freezing points. WVO is usually collected for various reprocessing 
and given the competition collecting enough liquid oil within a 
reasonable range can limit the plant capacity making the project 
marginal profit wise. Still it can work. Get realistic estimates of 
available oil and get your numbers right. The volume of available oil 
coupled with the achievable profit margin simply determine the 
maximum capital outlay.
Good luck from Harry. 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "daponuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> has anybody looked into using Waste Veg Oil in the context of the 
UK 
> Renewables Obligation (in a 250-500Kw plant)?
> 
> It isn't specifically mentioned in the Govt's priorities for the 
RO, 
> but would obviously fit the bill for sustainability.
> 
> Have there been any issues with emissions (given that waste 
> incineration is fairly noxious and WVO may be lumped in the same 
> environmentally-unfriendly bag)? I think Nitrous Oxide emissions 
are 
> marginally higher than diesel, but that should be the only 
> drawback... There should be none of the Heavy Metal and Dioxin 
> problems. What about particles?
> 
> Are there any specific planning regulations that need to be 
> considered? Transportation should not be too much of an issue (the 
> traffic movements would be minimal). I suppose noise and location 
> would be paramount.
> 
> I have received a document from the DTI for Developers in Anaerobic 
> Digestion (with the various milestones etc). Does anyone know of a 
> similar overview of the process required for WVO?
> 
> Finally, I've heard that the EU may ban using WVO for animal food. 
> This would potentially open up the market to partner in some 
manner  
> with existing WVO "recyclers" for electricity generation (or take 
> over the collection process if these companies fail). Does anybody 
> have any details on the EUs plans?
> 
> Any input re hurdles encountered from commercial implementations 
> worldwide would be useful as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David Penfold
> 
> BTW, I'm in the initial stages of research on this project so don't 
> really have a lot to offer others wisdom-wise. If anybody else 
> (preferably with an engineering background) is also looking at this 
> in the UK, it may be worth getting together to pool resources.


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[biofuels-biz] Selection for oilseed with an ideal FA composition for biodiesel.

[gjkimlin]

Hi Steve, I compared the FA composition that you posted with some in 
the european literature. What strain are you growing? The European 
crop specifically grown for bio seems to be called "OO" or"00" 
probably because it has zero 22C FAs. Have you cooled your bio to 
determine the cloud or pour point? I would be interested. The stuff 
we make from the WVO is variable, some cafes use cottonseed, some 
palm oil and some a mysterious "blend" that could even be re-refined 
WVO though I suspect that this is supposed to be exported to China.
Either way we have to winterise, it being winter and all.
A sorgum based ethanol plant is being constructed in Dalby, hopefully 
they will be an affordable source of fuel grade ethanol for mixing 
with the bio. The stuff that we use for a biocide is an ester between 
butyl and ethyl alcohols, 2-butoxy ethanol or butyl glycol ether. Its 
probably used as a winterizer in higher amounts. Its used as a grease 
cutter in truck wash and I suspect that its a solvent for cellulose. 
One hell of a solvent, wouldn't want it in the creek.


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Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?

[gjkimlin]

Actually the methanol doesn't mix that well with the biodiesel. IPA 
(Isopropyl Alcohol) does and seems to have a beneficial  effect at 
quite low concentrations 2% even. IPA isn't cheap here, 95% ethanol, 
even at 10% is attractive since that is what is sold as metholated 
spirits. Tony clogged up again this morning-looked like mud- really 
must get across the need to add the biocide.(sorry Kieth)
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day Steven
> 
> >G'day Keith & Camillo
> >Thanks for the information, leads and suggestions.Can I please 
ask, what does
> >DIYS IMHO stand forsomething about do it yourself?
> 
> "Do-it-yourselfers, in my humble opinion".
> 
> >I presume when you mention about using an alcohol to lower cloud 
point,
> >methanol could be as easily used, but is not the fuel of choice 
because of its
> >origin.
> 
> Yes, I guess that's right. I was working with ethanol and found 
cloud 
> point improvement, other interests too with ethanol blends, so I 
> didn't try methanol, but certainly worth trying. That biodiesel had 
> quite a low cloud point anyway, I've no idea what effect it might 
> have on your high-CP muttonfat BD. Please let us know anything you 
> find.
> 
> >Somthing of interest, just thinking about fuels. Not far from 
where I live, in
> >a little place called Wolsley, there are some relics from a by 
gone era, huge
> >cement fuel tanks sitting out in the middle of a farmers paddock. 
Apparently
> >they were used during the second world war to hold fuel 
reserves...and I think
> >( if my memory dosn't fail me ) they actually produced the fuel
> >there...ethanol... I presume.
> >I just thought that was interesting.
> 
> Hopefully a sign of a forthcoming era too, Steven.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> >Regards
> >Steven
> >
> >Keith Addison wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Camillo, Steve
> > >
> > > >snip,snip
> >
> > > 100% mutton fat: Yes, we do offer technology for that 
feedstock. But
> >
> > > >sorry, nothing for DIYS IMHO.
> > >
> > > Try this, good for tallow and lard - if it doesn't handle 100% 
you
> > > might have to mix it with some SVO or WVO:
> > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html
> > >
> > > >Cloud point IS THE NUMBER ONE problem we all have with the 
cheap
> > > >feedstocks though.
> > >
> > > Sorry to push this, but I found adding 10% ethanol lowered cloud
> > > point quite a useful amount, maybe more so in this case. It was 
95%
> > > ethanol, by the way.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Bye for now,
> > > >Camillo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-UrsprŸngliche Nachricht-
> > > >Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 23:48
> > > >An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >G'day Camillo,
> > > >Thanks for the comments but can I ask the question.by what 
method/s
> > > >of
> > > >analysis do you determine the quality of Bio-diesel?
> > > >I had a hinch that Glycerine would've been a "specific nuber" 
before its
> > > >removal, and so a fatty acid analysis would've indicated the
> > > >"completeness"
> > > >of a reaction?
> > > >It is good to know that in European systems you do in fact use 
raw
> > > >feedstock.
> > > >
> > > >Just to throw another feedstock into the ball 
park...100%.mutton fat. I
> > > >think
> > > >someone on another thread mentioned something about the smell 
of "kitten
> > > >vomit"yes...fairly nasty smelling stuffbut produced 
the best
> > > >looking
> > > >fuel I've seen. Only problem...has a cloud point of about 16 
degrees! Is
> > > >it
> > > >possible to alter the cloud point using surfactants? Have you 
done any
> > > >work
> > > >with regards to the use of tallows Camillo? I'd be interested 
to hear.
> > > >Regards
> > > >Steven
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Camillo Holecek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If it helps to clarify, here are my two (EURO) cent:
> > > > >
> > > > > ALL commercial BD produced in Europe is made from raw oil, 
nobody
> > > > > bothers to refine (if they can).
> > > > >
> > > > > The fatty acid composition you mention has little to do with
> > > >"quality".
> > > > > It depends only on the feedstock AND GOES UNCHANGED THROUGH
> > > > > TRANSESTERIFICATION !!! Therefore it does not say anything 
on the
> > > > > "quality" of a biodiesel production.
> > > > >
> > > > > Camillo Holecek
> > > > > Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH,
> > > > > Austria
> > > > >
> > > > > -UrsprŸngliche Nachricht-
> > > > > Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 15:26
> > > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering
> > > > >
> > > > > G'day Keith,
> > > > > It's Steve Hobbs here. I have only two pieces of reference 
for my
> > > >work.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 - My humble 18 year old Nissan ute that has now travelled 
7000 kms
> > > >on
> > > > > a 40%
> > > > > cold

[biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering

[gjkimlin]

I'm going to get into trouble here but hey it's the truth we're after 
right?
I read the paper on genetically modified vegetable oil and determined 
the following:
1) The oil in question was derived by an "enhanced" mutation method.
To me this means that it was not genetically engineered as it did not 
involve the inclusion of "foreign" genes. This is more than just nit 
picking, I wrote a couple of papers on the management of genetic 
drift in tissue culture, normally you work your butt off to reduce 
the mutation rate but occassionally you do the opposite. An example 
was the "creation" of a salt tolerant Eucalypt from tissue culture 
that now is used to lower salty water tables in the management of 
dryland salinity. Simply allow or enhance the natural tendency of 
material to mutate in culture and add salt to the media to select for 
tolerance. 
Having said that even within the 'natural' forms of plant mutation 
the creation of a problem plant can occur.
The point is that this method is strictly within the realm 
of "traditional" plant breeding--not genetic engineering.
2) The paper did suggest that its purpose was to give genetic 
engineers information as to the direction they should take.
3) To me the paper shows that breeding and selection can produce 
field crop vegetable oils with lower chain length FAs from the 
existing gene pools relying on natural variations alone. As 
biodieselers that would be enough. The same tissue culture techniques 
as produced the high yield Palm oil varieties could achieve similar 
results for tree crops. It's a matter of what research is funded.
One thing that concerns me is the statement that transesterification 
to "biodiesel" was expensive. When compared with the costs of 
refining vegetable oils by degumming, neutralisation, bleaching etc., 
the cost of transesterifying raw oils is not; or should not be; 
excessive. Steve Hobbs has shown that the transesterification (with 
washing)of raw oil effectivelty removes the contaminants.
 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Preskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Paddy,
> I'd be interested too in the papers.
> Dave
> 
> goat industries wrote:
> 
> > there are plans to produce crops of genetically modified oil 
bearing plants.
> > The oil extracted could be used directly as a diesel fuel because 
it is
> > composed of a high percentage of small chain length molecules. If 
anyone
> > wants more info i could dig out the relevant papers.
> >
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> --
> David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> Recycling - not a chore more a way of life
> 
> University of Wales
> BioComposites Centre
> Deiniol Road
> Bangor
> Gwynedd
> LL572UW
> http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk
> Tel +44 (0)1248-370588
> Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594


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[biofuels-biz] Re: DOE Grant

[gjkimlin]

Hi Camillo,
 I may be out of date but I had the impression that the ENERGEA 
system while being attractively high tech was prohibitivly expensive 
for biodiesel production at the community level. When the WVO costs 
10c Aust/litre and the consumables ~20c/litre of oil, the biodiesel 
should market below 50c/litre; that's ~ $1us/usgal. 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Camillo Holecek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> please allow me one question: What is the potential amount of UVO,
> yellow grease, grease trap and other feedstock within let's say 100
> miles around you?
> 
> A 250,000 gallon per year initial production facility looks to 
small to
> be economic according to European experience, where fuel prices are 
much
> higher anyway.
> 
> I do not want to sound too critical, Its just that I do not 
understand,
> what is the point you want to make: If it is to produce BD from 
yellow
> grease at a commercial scale, that has been shown in several places
> already, is'nt it?
> 
> Or is it to develop a US technology for small batch equipment? 
There is
> Pacific biodiesel
> 
> Or is your aim to see as much production capacity up and running in 
the
> US as ASAP? In that case I belive our ENERGEA CTER technology 
approach
> may help investors to move into the field very fast.
> 
> Camillo Holecek
> Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, and 
> ENERGEA biodiesel technology,
> Austria
> 
> www.energea.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -UrsprŸngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 07. Juni 2002 22:51
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: [biofuels-biz] DOE Grant
> 
> 
> I got a reply from the US DOE yesterday saying they found no merit 
in my
> 
> preliminary grant application. I'm a little disappointed, but 
thought
> there 
> might still be something of value here. If you have the time, let me
> know 
> what you think
> 
> Tom Leue
> Homestead Inc.
> 
> Biomass Research and Development for the Production of Fuels, Power,
> Chemicals
> and other Economical and Sustainable Products
> Solicitation 1435-01-02-RP-86382
> Pre-Application Submitted 5/14/02
> Submitted to   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Proposal for a Biodiesel Development Center
> 
> Submitted by:   Thomas S. Leue, President, Homestead Inc.
> 1664 Cape St., Williamsburg, MA 01096
> 413 628-4533, Fax 413 628-3973
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Introduction
> Biodiesel fuel has been shown to be a superior diesel fuel in terms 
of 
> environmental impact, balance of trade, global warming, toxicity,
> emissions,  
> engine longevity, etc. However, it has not been generally available 
to
> the 
> public due to the limited number of producers and their geographic
> locations. 
> Biodiesel fuel has a potential to supply approximately 6.6% of 
national 
> diesel fuel needs, according to the National Biodiesel Board (NBB). 
To
> date, 
> the NBB has concentrated on production of biodiesel made from virgin
> soybean 
> oil, and all testing has been limited to that product. This proposal
> will 
> lead to the development of an urban biodiesel production facility in
> Albany, 
> New York that will demonstrate the commercial potential of a fuel
> production 
> business based on locally available yellow grease and other 
vegetable
> oil 
> sources, along with providing the educational resources needed for
> others to 
> duplicate this facility model in many other urban areas throughout 
the
> US.
> 
> Technical Narrative
> The production of biodiesel has been developed using numerous
> technologies 
> over the past twenty years or longer. The technical know how is 
largely
> in 
> the public domain, but has not led to widespread production 
throughout
> the 
> US. For instance, this researcher maintains the only commercial 
scale 
> production facility within a 500 mile radius, located in Western 
> Massachusetts. The biodiesel biorefinery operated by Homestead Inc. 
is a
> 
> pilot scale, batch type production facility. Although each batch
> produced is 
> small, currently 20 gallons net per batch and soon to go to 100 
gallons
> net 
> per batch, the large number of batches produced, over 300 to date, 
has 
> developed an in-depth understanding of the collection and processing
> systems 
> needed and the variability inherent in processing used vegetable 
oil.
> Over 
> four years of development and operating experience has developed the
> basic 
> requirements for a larger processing facility to be developed under 
this
> 
> proposal.
> 
> The development of another mid-sized biodiesel production facility 
by
> itself 
> will not significantly change the rate of utilization of this
> alternative 
> fuel. For example, New York State is currently using over 250,000
> gallons 
> biodiesel per year, a large part of our initial annual production 
of up
> to 
> 1,000,000 gallons per year. The essence of this proposal is to 
operate a
> 
> commercially viable biorefinery based on locally available yellow
> grease; to 
> promote the use and avail

[biofuels-biz] Re: Is 10% EthOH, 10%water, 20% bio, 60% diesel the ultimate blend?

[gjkimlin]

Some interesting papers on water diesel mixes in that link Kieth. 
Somewhere in there there must be some indication of the best 
emulsifiers for diesel and water if not bio, water and ethanol. 
I couldn't access the link I prefer for detergents, probably down for 
a while if anyone wants to try it: 
http://www.chem.wsu.edu/chem240/ester-fats.html 
The detergents that I was thinking of appear to be sulphonated Fatty 
Acids. Not too hard to make but contain sulphur. I'm getting the 
impression that a potassium soap is about as good as it gets for the 
emulsifier provided that there is no source of calcium or magnesium 
in the fuel system. I can't imagine why there should be (maybe in the 
wash water or the water that we are mixing). Lauric Acid is prefered 
for detergent effects so perhaps a potassium soap of coconut or palm 
oil would mix the ethanol and water with the bio. I have some coconut 
oil samples left so I'll make some up and set up a factorial 
(eventually).
Regards from Harry


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[biofuels-biz] Is 10% EthOH, 10%water, 20% bio, 60% diesel the ultimate blend?

[gjkimlin]

Some recent discussion on water injection focused on the cooling 
effect of the water and or ethanol. That is important as it would 
increase the effective turbo boost and increase the power output. If 
the boost effect is substantial though the increase in cylinder 
pressures must be a concern. Can the bottom end of the motor take it?
Similar problem to after market fitting of turbos.
Water CAN be blended with diesel!!  A bus company in NSW (AUS) is 
trialing a 10% water emulsion using an emulsifying agent imported 
from the US. The stable emulsion looks like milk. The mix has a 
detergent effect, requiring precleaning of the fuel system to prevent 
filter blockage. In addition a coarser fuel filter is fitted. 
Apparently the water droplets are surrounded by diesel creating an 
effectively large particle size. The reported effects on pollution 
are similar to those recorded for diodiesel. In Bundaberg QLD a plant 
produces diesahol- a blend of ethanol with diesel. I have mixed 
absolute ethanol (and methanol) with biodiesel 50:50, the solution 
has been stable for 8 months now-no separation and no apparent 
freezing in response to sub zero nights. 
Low sulphur diesel has low lubricity and requires addition of a 
lubricant. I expect that either the water blend or the diesahol would 
be worse. It makes sense that the lubricant be biodiesel as it would 
also improve some of the fuel properties. I have no figures on the 
effect of either the water or Ethanol on Cetane but I would expect it 
to be lowered, both are reported to improve milage and power.
Ethanol, bio and diesel blend quite well; to blend the water seems to 
require a "detergent" or emulsifier and since Fatty Acid Alcohols are 
the biodegradable detergents from the Eighties it follows that the 
biodiesel plant could provide them as well. I will look at the 
chemistry. 
Finding the best proportions of the four ingredients would require 
some factorial experimentation and may come down to cost 
effectiveness.
It seems that this blend may be the most practical application of the 
current technology.
For those interested in the blending process itself, consider 
homogenisation. Forcing a mixture through a slot at 3000 PSI onto 
an "anvil" apparently breaks up the particles in a way that prevents 
the components from separating hence creating a stable emulsion. The 
same may apply to the high freezing point Esters that have the 
potential to clog filters in cold weather, the crystals are very long 
and fibrous, just begging to be broken up by homogenisation. An 
alternative to removing them by winterisation. 
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Commercial biodiesel plant in Queensland.

[gjkimlin]

A grant of up to $200 000 may be available for a suitable proposal to 
build a plant to convert WVO to bio in Queensland. I believe that 
this would have to involve a company that includes a major WVO 
collector and probably a fuel distributor or one of the refineries.
I am able to provide most of the technical expertise including 
processes that many seem to think are propietary but I don't really 
want to own a plant of this size and lack the business experience 
necessary in any case. Any locals want to help?
Harry


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[biofuels-biz] Re: cheap source of ethanol

[gjkimlin]

Geoff, you really need to tell us where you are. I was recently 
offered 30% ethanol from a waste disposal outfit--they got it from 
some herbal extract business--the business should be using a good 
reflux still to regain at up to 95% purity.  I could not use the 
ethanol since for bio diesel I need better than 95% ( and I need 
nearly twice as much-compare the molecular weights of ethanol and 
methanol.) I suspect that 95% works for a dedicated ethanol engine 
but not for petro ethanol blends-anyone? Meanwhile I'm blending 
absolute ethanol with various %S OF BIO and testing it in small two-
strokes. May work in a fuel injected petrol engine like dads new 
Commodore, then again it might not. Anyone in South East Queensland 
got a fuel injected petrol engine they can donate?
Regards from hARRY--BUGGER! that's Harry. I really must find my 
glasses.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm a new member but very curious, can someone point me to some 
online 
> info regarding the cost-efficient production of ethanol for use in 
an 
> automobile with a converted gasoline engine?  I'm talking about a 
> small scale operation for one person's use.
> 
> thanks,
> geoff


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Queensland Contacts

[gjkimlin]

From: Gary Kimlin (Harry) UQ Gatton campus.

Hi Barry and Lyle,
I'm situated near Gatton. Friend Tony and I have been producing bio 
for my Pajero and Tony's Crane hire truck for some months. We 
generally make up to 200 litres a week from various feed stocks. We 
have struck various problems that keep us from selling on the open 
market (other than we use it all ourselves). Mostly filter problems 
from dissolving synthetic and natural fuel lines, polimerisation of 
regular bio with components of diesel as well as polimerisation via 
epoxy formation from the linseed oil component of some cooking 
blends. 
I work (as a chemist)in partnership with an engineer to design and 
supply plants for use in the pacific. Much easier from a pure oil, 
that product could be marketed here provided that a 
suitable "conversion" kit was included. Each of the local feedstock 
problems has solutions, the challenge is to be able to make a 
consistantly safe product from a range of cheap feed stocks in the 
one versatile apparatus. I will assist antone who wants to make bio 
for their own use and will convert oil for people for about 40c/litre 
of feed stock (depending on feedstock quality). 
Marketing the stuff without dealing with the identified problems 
first could set us back years. We need our own Qld based quality 
control. If it is handled realistically, as opposed to 
idealistically, we could have a B10 or a B20 product available or 
even compulsory in the non-subsidy areas within a few years. Then we 
could all breath easier.
Regards from Harry 
Ph. 07 54654221
email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

And yes I grew up in Hemmant on the Mad Mile.


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Coco Diesel Technology

[gjkimlin]

I note that the Coco diesel doesn't claim to be methyl esters. 
Digestion by micro-organisms is an obvious step in Oil extraction if 
the product doesn't need to be edible. It is quite likely that some 
yeast like bugs would target the glycerol part of an oil molecule, 
releasing FFAs. In fact any bug that causes rancidity would be 
expected to do just that. Many of the countries that produce excess 
coconut require stationary desiels that can easily be converted to 
SVO and coconut has the advantage of requiring next to no refining 
compared to other vegy oils that contain gums etc.. Hanns has worked 
for some time on practical alternatives for direct oil extraction 
from fresh coconuts-When he returns fron New Guinea I will refer this 
thread.
Regards from Harry


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Iodine number

[gjkimlin]

The problem with iodine number is that it effectively measures the 
number of double bonds in a quantity of fatty acids, generally while 
they are still attached to the glycerol. The methyl ester of an 18 
carbon FA that is saturated has a high freezing point. One or more 
double bond reduces the freezing point so that we have a liquid 
biodiesel. The FAE's with one double bond seem to be OK and actually 
give desirable qualities to Bio. Two double bonds close together are 
a problem since oxidation can result in a type of ring structure with 
an oxygen atom attached to two carbons along the chain, from memory 
with another carbon in between. This is an epoxy structure and 
epoxies are capable of polimerisation with each other and with other 
molecules. The double bonds need to be an appropriate distance apart 
and there is a branch of FA chemistry devoted to reorganising the 
position of double bonds to deliberately create epoxies. Iodine 
number by itself gives no indication of whether the double bonds are 
on the same FA molecule let alone if they are close enough on the 
same molecule to create an epoxy. The higher the iodine number for a 
particular oil the more likely it is that there will be two double 
bonds on the same fatty acid and that some of them will have the 
appropriate separation. Even so two oils from separate sources may 
have a similar iodine number but very different rates of 
polimerisation. So to condemn an oil based on the iodine number alone 
may not be appropriate. Some oils are listed as setting oils. These 
oils generally have some fatty acids that have three double bonds. 
Linseed oil used as a paint or varnish base is a good example. 
Baileys has a useful list of oils with their typical FA content based 
on carbon number and saturation. The older Baileys editions used 
smell as a means of identifying oils, I believe that I can identify 
linseed by smell. Some of the WVO we get seems to contain a blend of 
linseed. I have made experimental batches of FAME from linseed oil. 
It forms a neat plastic film on the surface and an 
interesting "thick" layer over some useful bio. I intend to learn how 
to best deal with the epoxies by playing with this product. I may 
have to make the next batch in an oxygen deficient atmosphere. A lot 
of bio forms a film on top, it may be that this is a result of 
oxidation to epoxies rather than a wax layer, though it does seem to 
mix back in rather well. Naturally we could remove the double bonds 
by hydrogenation, trouble is that raises the freezing point of the 
fuel and that brings us back to chill filtering. Even with tallow an 
efficient chill filtration should leave a useful yield of 75% bio.
Thanks for the lift pump stuff. Regards from Harry.
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neoteric Biofuels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looks like I missed a thread on this earlier, re: the lift pump 
discussion -
> sorry!
> 
> Ed B.
> www.biofuels.ca
> 
> 
> > From: Steven Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:35:20 +1100
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Iodine number
> > 
> > Harry, I need a bit of time to digest the first bit about storage 
life, but as
> > far as a lift pump and pre filter, we have a 1440 international 
axial flow
> > 
> >


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[biofuels-biz] Iodine number

[gjkimlin]

I have been investigating the relationship between the degree of 
saturation of FAME's and the potential for polymerisation both within 
B100 and between the esters and components of diesel (dino-diesel).
Doesn't look good. There is a statistically significant correlation 
between the proportion of setting oils (linseed) in a mix and the 
fuel filter change intervals from the resultant esters. The fix may 
be as simple as preoxidation (air bubbling) and filtering prior to 
sale. 
I would like group members to renew discussion on the idea of a lift 
pump kit with cost effective prefilter. Not much point in reinventing 
the wheel!!
Regards from Harry



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[biofuels-biz] Re: Glycerine as a by product of biodeisel.

[gjkimlin]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], " Tanya Du Preez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Tanya, The glycerine you have will likely contain FAME and some 
other oily residues. These will separate by dilution, usually with 
deionised water, followed by acidification. After that filtration 
with activated charcoal removes residual organics. The result at this 
stage should be a glycerol solution containing some sulphate salts. 
Concentration by evaporation should then give a product that 
specialist glycerol makers will buy. I am working on a pilot plant to 
purify glycerol, once that is finished I should be able to design and 
build a commercial scale plant. We expect to source glycerol from the 
Pacific region for purification in Queensland. The amount that you 
are dealing with would probably justify a local installation. Keep in 
touch via [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards from Harry.
> Hello,
> Can anyone help me?
> 
> I am a Zimbabwean who has been fortunate enough to secure the 
rights to
> Glycerine ( a by- product of biodeisel production from coconut 
oil ) in
> Mozambique. As I have not been involved in this field before I need 
a lot of
> information. As you may already know, Mozambique is one of the 
poorest
> nations in the world and is desperate for investment of this nature
> especially if it going to create jobs and earn foreign currency for 
them.
> 
> The initial output of glycerine (unpurified) will be approximately 
5 metric
> tons per day, which could rapidly in crease to 10 tonnes as more 
biodeisel
> plants are affected.
> 
> Information required:
> Marketing
> 1. Which would be the best market(s) to aim for?
> 2. To what extent would I have to process or purify the product?
> 3. What machinery would I require to achieve this?
> 4. What expertise would I need to run the plant?
> 5. What space would I need to set up a factory of this nature?
> 6. As labour is resonably priced in Mozambique, which value added 
product
> could I produce for export and what would be required as asked for 
in
> questions 1-5?
> 7. If there is anyone interested in this project I would most 
certainly be
> interested in hearing from you.
> 
> Infrmation that you might require:
> 
> 1. The project will be situated in a port city, only 1km from the 
port
> itself.
> 2. The city has a good water and electrcity supply.
> 3. The labour force available will be unskilled and will need 
training.
> 4. Raw materials will have to be imported from neighbouring 
Zimbabwe or
> South Africa.
> 
> If you can help or put me in touch with someone who can, I will be 
most
> grateful. Could you suggest a newsgroup where I can post my 
queries? My
> contact e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Thank you
> Dup Du Preez


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[biofuels-biz] Re: drying waste oil

[gjkimlin]

Yes it does make sense. A molecular still works on this principal. A 
large metal basket(1metre) with sides that taper out at the top 
rotates at a few hundred revs within a basket of heating coils. The 
feed stock migrates up the inside in a thin layer. In this case the 
water could evaporate efficiently without much heating of the oil 
that wouldd reach the top dry. Worth a try!! Got to go.
Regards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here's my thought, something i'm working on but not finished.
> 
> Water will absorb more heat than the oil - that's why if you hold a 
> spoonful above a flame it bubbles, the water is boiling but the oil 
> doesn't take up much heat.  Also electric elements tend to burn out 
> in oil for the same reason.
> 
> If you pass the wet oil over a hot plate in a thin enough layer 
with 
> the plate temp set at abot 150 deg c the water should boil off 
> instantaniously but the oil will not absorb as much heat, probably 
> ending up at the right temp for processing.
> 
> Does this make any sense
> 
> Simon
> http://www.veggiepower.org.uk
> 
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I searched the archives and there dos'nt seem to be much info on 
> > drying heavily used waste oil. In my recent experience simply 
> heating 
> > the oil to 60 degrees C and letting it settle does not seem to 
> work. 
> > Boiling the stuff off is expensive and time consuming unless 
> > specialist equipment is used. I concluded that a vaccuum pump 
could 
> > be used to remove the steam effectively. Has anybody tried this 
and 
> > what are the best pumps? Anybody got any other ideas? It's also 
> > interesting to see the oil change colour from creamy white 
through 
> > brown to black (cold).


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[biofuels-biz] Re: drying waste oil

[gjkimlin]

Paddy I can not see how you can avoid heating to 110C for a drying 
cycle. WVO that contains water as you describe may also contain 
detergents and other waste. The technical difficulty involved in 
building a container that will not collapes under vacume may be less 
than that involved in heating. Vacume has other advantages in that if 
you can seal well enough for vacume then you can probably also 
pressurise and heat above the boiling point of methanol for a faster 
reaction and the vacume allows easier reclamation of the excess 
methanol, but as far as drying is concerned higher temperatures are 
needed if the water has emulsified to any extent.
-- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I searched the archives and there dos'nt seem to be much info on 
> drying heavily used waste oil. In my recent experience simply 
heating 
> the oil to 60 degrees C and letting it settle does not seem to 
work. 
> Boiling the stuff off is expensive and time consuming unless 
> specialist equipment is used. I concluded that a vaccuum pump could 
> be used to remove the steam effectively. Has anybody tried this and 
> what are the best pumps? Anybody got any other ideas? It's also 
> interesting to see the oil change colour from creamy white through 
> brown to black (cold).


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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] oil purifier

[gjkimlin]

Fair go Pedro, you want all my secrets.
I recently described a process to convert the "foots" from a palm oil 
refinery to good quality bio. The foots are the result of taking the 
entire waste stream, as soap stock, and performing an acidulation 
process. This results in a lot of phospholipids and associated 
substances with a glycerol backbone that still carries some fatty 
acids along with 40% to 80% free fatty acids. For my WVO I am 
essentially using the "foolproof" method following the reaction 
progress with standard alkali titration. In would suggest that 
the "foolproof" method should be the standard pretreatment, perhaps 
an initial titration to determine FFA % (for the duration of the 
process)and one end point titration to ensure neutralisation. Scratch 
that, just add methoxide at 40gmNaOH/litreMethanol until PH 9-10 is 
reached. There should then be NO FFAs and NO soap from the alkali 
method. If you need to know more use my direct email. this approaches 
commercial in confidence stuff. I will endevour to create a graph of 
FFA% to reaction time and send it to KA for the site.
Regards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some another more : 
http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/purificadores.htm 
> 
> It would be interesting create a standard for this purifying 
process ( so the Waste Vegetable Oil could be treated in Virgin Oil 
Biodiesel Processor ). This would be the Standard Purifying Pre-
process. 
> 
> All the best.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Harmon Seaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] oil purifier
> 
> 
> > Here's quite a few:
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=delaval+%22oil+purifier%22
> > 
> > The DeLaval company is http://www.delaval.com/
> > I'm not sure whether they still make the oil purifiers or not.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Harmon Seaver, MLIS
> > CyberShamanix
> > Work 920-203-9633   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
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[biofuels-biz] Re: Price and quality

[gjkimlin]

Iodine number is a measure of the degree of saturation of the fatty 
acids, it is therefore connected with the freezing point of some of 
the esters present. Unsaturated FAEs have a lower freezing point than 
saturated esters of similar carbon chain length, however they can 
link together to form dimers that may settle out on standing. 
GENERALLY SPEAKING IT HAS NO PLACE IN A FUEL STANDARD.
Regards from Harry
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Forgive my ignorance, but what is the importance of the iodine 
> number. As Mauro says everywhere except Europe has no problem 
> with "high" iodine soy diesel so does anyone know why DIN 51606 is 
so 
> picky?
> 
> Dave


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[biofuel] Re: Standards

[gjkimlin]

titrate against a HCl standard.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello group
> We've decided to develop a standards testing procedure and we plan 
to 
> start with the 4 Austrian standards density, viscosity alkali and 
> water content.
> I wonder if anyone can point us to a simple test procedure for 
alkali
> content ? (mg/kg)
> Best regs to all
> James


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Worst fears realized!!

[gjkimlin]

Good advice Fen,
The first thing is to remove the prefilters and replace the main 
filter units. The problem could be mainly the gum.
 Though I would never consider selling it, I have used gelling Bio 
from sources containing longer chain FAs and saturated FAs in my own 
car without problems. The gell is fluidised by the pump if it gets 
that far. Of course in Queensland we just don't get consistantly low 
temperatures, just overnight. Once the pump reflux warms the tank, 
the fuel works fine.   
I don't intend to sound as if I'm in denial, but: I had morning 
problems with gelling bio when I first used it in the car. Its hard 
to get across just how effectively bio will move the diesel varnish 
from the tank and lines. I initially tried series prefilters-wrong!! 
The flow resistance is increased, exacerbating the effect of the 
varnish clogging the filters. The cheaper inline filters did not save 
any money because they had a much lower surface area and clogged 
sooner. I found that it was cheaper to avoid extra prefilters and 
change the dedicated main filter as soon as any hesitation was 
noticed or even suspected. My associate is intending to use bio in 
his truck for a run out to Aramac,(I suspect to collect Model T 
parts). I want to see a parallel spin-on filter installed before he 
leaves so that he can easily change filters by the road side, that 
and a box of filters under the seat.  A filter body with a hand pump 
costs $10us from a 4X4 wrecker and is easy to install parallel (not 
series) with the existing filter, the reduced flow resistance 
actually helps performance of some engines. I suspect that my filters 
are due for a change, I get stuck with any batches that are a bit 
suspect quality wise. Gelled bio will clog a filter that is partially 
gummed, usually first thing in the morning and only when you are 
running late. Credibility wise the damage is already done, some could 
be undone if we get across this real problem of changing from diesel 
to bio and how to handle it. The Auto club here recently ran a rave 
article about home made bio, all good positive stuff. I best write a 
follow up for them to make sure the initial filter problem doesn't 
create a bad impression. The wife can get really pissed off when the 
car stops half a mile down the road on a cold morning.
Regards Harry. Ps I have some good news to report later.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Greetings:
> 
> The easiest way to get that "gunk" out of his engine (and I 
say "easiest" 
> with a certain sarcasm) is to heat the fuel, the injectors and the 
fuel 
> delivery lines to 120 -125 degrees F.  Fuel line preheaters are 
available 
> but, as a one-off remedial measure,  I have done it successfully 
with 
> infrared heat lamps strategically placed,  fiber glass insulation 
blankets 
> and a dip stick oil heater in the fuel tank.  It is a pain but it 
is a lot 
> easier than dismantling the fuel delivery system.
> 
> Any biofuel that used tallow feed stock will need to be kept at 
50 - 55 
> degrees C to function as a liquid fuel.  At that temperature it 
works just 
> fine.  Unfortunately, that makes it a little impractical for over 
the road 
> vehicles, though there are ways to deal with it (again, the dip 
stick heater 
> in the fuel tank, and preheaters on the injection system, not 
unlike the 
> systems installed on diesel equipment in Alaska when they were 
building the 
> oil pipe line.)  The problem is more easily handled with stationary 
machinery.
> 
> Wm Frye


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[biofuels-biz] (unknown)

[gjkimlin]

Hi Jim,
I had problems originally too with the acid/base two stage. I have 
studied the chemistry since and am supprised that I did as well as I 
had.
The addittion of conc Sulphuric acid to oil is a touchy process. The 
acid can sulphonate the oil(very bad)and it can otherwise affect 
chemical bonds. To get it to esterify the free fatty acids without 
doing more, you need to follow Alex's method closely. 
1) Make sure that the acid is concentrated enough, 95% may be good 
enough but I prefer 98%. Remember that Conc sulphuric is the primo 
absorber of water and the properties of dilute sulphuric are very 
different to the conc. acid.
2)Do not use more acid than the 1ml/litre suggested, amoungst other 
reactions it may form mono or diglycerides that can have a detergent 
effect on the glycerine. 
3)Stir slowly, it doesn't take much to initiate other reactions.
4) Maintain a constant 60C, too hot and again a new set of reactions 
can occur. Loss of methanol will also allow other reactions.
5)Watch the timing, as I remember I allow the reaction to cool after 
an hour and then neutralize the acid with methoxide soln at an 
another hour for liquid oils and 1.5 hours for solid oils. Follow 
Alex's directions to the letter.
Calculate the amount of methanol carefully and try to stay under 1.6 
times the theoretical for your oil type. Excess alcohol can keep the 
glycerol in suspension.
I try to keep a lid on the batch to prevent the sulphuric from 
absorbing much water from the air.
If you mix the lye and alcohol before use keep it tightly closed.
It will absorbe water if it can.
I think that covers the post from a pervious discussion, good luck.
Regards from Harry.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jim h" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi
> I,ve made a few small batches using the 2 stage process but have 
had some 
> problems. Every time at the acid stage it doesn't seporate, instead 
I 
> allways end up with a thick mass.
> can anyone advise to what I'm doing wrong? Any help would be 
appreciated.
> jim
> 
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
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[biofuels-biz] Re: standards for the next decade

[gjkimlin]

Hi Steve, The Maths here reminds me of past student I met up with at 
a class reunion years ago. His name was Mario and he bunged on an 
accent (an Aussie through and through)not a good student but a good 
fun kid. Mario turned up in this big flashy car looking very 
prosperous. The guys asked how come he had done so well. Mario 
attributed it to his old maths teacher. He said,"I'm big in the 
restraunt trade, I buy-a the steaks for a dollar, I sell-a them for-a 
$10 and I make-a the ten percent!!"
Cheers.









--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Wooly ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Keith
> 
> <> < quite capable of making high-quality biodiesel, by all accounts>>
> 
> Whilst I dream of a plant-in-the-box (Camillo's version or 
otherwise), and I 
> do understand the concept of economy of scale (in defence of large 
plants), 
> I have to agree that its not all that cut and dried. A friend here 
just 
> produced fuel to ASTM (not all that difficult, I know) in little 
more than a 
> bucket. He can't do it continously and in huge quantities,yet, but 
this does 
> steal some thunder, no?
> 
> Anyway, if you were out to sell plants costing millions in any 
currency 
> you'd hardly be agreeing with the personal-use argument, would you?
> 
> Regards,
> Steve Woolcott
> 
> HarvestEnergy
> Sydney Australia
> 
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
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[biofuels-biz] Re: standards for the next decade

[gjkimlin]

 Sorry to mislead you Richard, a 1ton batch plant can produce at 
least 4 tons a week. Theoretically that is a cost of less than $60 
000 for sufficient plants to make 40 000 tons/year. Probably in 
nearly 200 villages. Personally I would not use such a small batch 
plant for large scale production and using new materials would blow 
the cost out to nearly three times as much ($180 000). I 
theoretically could have access to 10 tons a week of WVO, if I chose 
to process it myself rather than form a biodieseler network to do it, 
I would like to build a 5ton semi automated plant, using home made 
occilliatory mixing pipes (stuffed into a water bath)and two small 
second hand centrifuges from a vegetable oil refining plant, 
counterflow type for washing, but then I am quite lazy and I do want 
the time to help Hanns put those presses and bio plants into New 
Britain. 
A simple 8 000litre batch vessel with a hot water jacketed cone and 
the mixing pipes to the circulating pump would suffice. Cooling, 
gravity and time take care of the gycerine drop. A vacum decant of 
the Bio from above the hardend glycerol and back for washing and so 
on. Actually the alkali refining vessel from the palm oil plant would 
be ideal, a bit of over kill but they are on the market new for less 
than $10 000us. Perhaps I could sit down with the mechanical 
engineers here and post a design for a low cost continuous plant. 
Love those Alpha Laval cream centrifuges, simple and neat. There are 
cheaper ways to kill a cat than choking it on cream. No one needs fat 
cats hey!!
Regards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Richard Gronald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> the answer is very simple, you just have to calculate:
> 
> if you want to produce lets say 40.000 t/a, you have to invest 
about $
> 3.000.000,- for a continuous plant. If the costs of investment for 
producing
> 1 t/a in a batch-plant is $ 300,-, you would have to invest $ 
12.000.000,-
> to produce 40.000 t/a.
> 
> Any further questions?
> 
> So find partners, make a business-plan to get venture capital, get 
the
> raw-materials, and build your own multi-feedstoch-big-scale plant 
which
> produces top-quality biodiesel. What is lokal in the states or in 
south
> america or in Australia? If you build three to five plants in every 
state,
> you have a local level and can deliver your customers much cheaper -
 if you
> can get cheap raw-materials the return of investment should be 
about three
> years...
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Richard
> 
> -UrsprŸngliche Nachricht-
> Von:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> t.com
> [mailto:sentto-3381553-445-997791643-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Keith Addison
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. August 2001 14:29
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: [biofuels-biz] Re: standards for the next decade
> 
> 
> Hi Harry, Mauro and all
> 
> >Hi Mauro, good post.
> > I have been working with palm oil, for my own use (mostly cotton
> >seed for others)The POME may have a MP of 14C but when blended its'
> >clog point seems much lower.This winter I used 50% POME at down
> >to -5C air temp with no problems. The setting point would not deter
> >me from using it for commercial production. Extracting the high MP
> >component creates an excellent cutting compound for metal work and
> >can be sold at the markets for up to $5/litre, its probably worth
> >more.
> 
> That's an interesting one. How do you extract it? In cold weather
> it'd settle out, I guess.
> 
> >In the tropical regions where the plants would mostly be built the 
MP
> >shouldn't be a problem. I do not understand how a $300 
continuous
> >plant can produce cheaper bio than a series of batch plants with a
> >similar capacity. Especially if the regions biodieselers form a co-
op
> >to buy the reagents at bulk prices and distribute their product
> >cheaply. The costs of servicing that amount of capital can create 
the
> >type of problem that we wish to solve. The technology needs to be 
in
> >the hands of the poor.
> 
> Yes, and well put. So many of us see it this way - decentralised
> energy production, small-scale, local-level, local energy
> self-sufficiency. I sometimes think this aspect could be just as
> important as the other positive aspects of biofuels - clean,
> carbon-neutral, renewable-sustainable. Possibly even more so: it was
> suggested recently on the biofuels list that if in 10 years or so
> ethanol has hit the big-time in the US under the control of the 
likes
> of ADM, Cargill, etc, we'll be fighting them tooth and nail, as we
> now fight Big Oil. As Steve Spence said, it's possible to do 
anything
> badly. Small-scale, distributed production is the answer, IMHO.
> 
> >I have built a 1ton capacity unit for less
> >than $300us. The expense was in the electronic thermostat and high
> >temperature pump--scrap metal dealers come across the most amazing
> >containers.
> >Regards from Harry--I have lost my voice I could use some of t

[biofuels-biz] Re: standards for the next decade

[gjkimlin]

Hi Mauro, good post.
 I have been working with palm oil, for my own use (mostly cotton 
seed for others)The POME may have a MP of 14C but when blended its' 
clog point seems much lower.This winter I used 50% POME at down 
to -5C air temp with no problems. The setting point would not deter 
me from using it for commercial production. Extracting the high MP 
component creates an excellent cutting compound for metal work and 
can be sold at the markets for up to $5/litre, its probably worth 
more.
In the tropical regions where the plants would mostly be built the MP 
shouldn't be a problem. I do not understand how a $300 continuous 
plant can produce cheaper bio than a series of batch plants with a 
similar capacity. Especially if the regions biodieselers form a co-op 
to buy the reagents at bulk prices and distribute their product 
cheaply. The costs of servicing that amount of capital can create the 
type of problem that we wish to solve. The technology needs to be in 
the hands of the poor. I have built a 1ton capacity unit for less 
than $300us. The expense was in the electronic thermostat and high 
temperature pump--scrap metal dealers come across the most amazing 
containers.
Regards from Harry--I have lost my voice I could use some of that 
mead right now. Purely therapeutic you understand

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mauro Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
>   Hello Dick: 
> You can«t buy palm oil at this prices ($220/tn) today«s price in 
Rotterdam is 342 $/tn , suppoust that you can buy big quantities in 
malasia at $ 280/tn more $20/tn for transport. You can get Palm Oil 
at $300/Tn, but procesing of palm oil into biodiesel isn«t the same 
thing that procesing soybean, sunflower or rapeseed oil into 
biodiesel. Because palm oil have a very high melting point, about 35 
to 38 ¼C, and the Palm Oil Metil Ester (POME) has a so much high 
melting point, about 14 ¼C, you must add soo much anti-frezing 
aditive or lost soo much material winterizing to allow a melting 
point of about - 5 ¼C. Allways you will lost about 30 $/tn to 50 $/tn 
(including the amortization of additional equipment).
> Best regards,
> Mauro Ariel Knudsen.
> Argentinean Biodieseler
>  
>  
>  
> Dick Carlstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribi—: 
>  *you can land palm oil in oz for under u$s 220 a ton. this should 
result in u$s 0.25 a litre for biodiesel, tops, ex factory. how much 
are you paying for fossil these days ? 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -
> ÀLo probaste?
> Gratis y para toda la vida: Correo Yahoo!.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuels-biz] Re: wish i had more ----input

[gjkimlin]

Now that Kieth has made it clear why he has a problem with some of 
Dick's historical remarks, can we move on please?  The issue of 
standards as quality control and Standards as government regulation 
are both important to me. Once a Standard is recommended in Australia 
it will quickly become law. Without meaning to give offence, I 
believe that Australian biodieselers, on their own, lack the 
experience to advise the regulator on the proposed standard.
What I want to know is how the practical quality control refered to 
(albeit in other words)by Dick transfers into the technical language 
of a formal Standard and vise versa. Quality control needs to be 
simple, inexpensive and on-site. If my on-site quality control is 
appropriate then I would expect that the fuel that I produce will 
pass any test by a regulator. That requires that the Standard is 
practical and designed only to protect the consumer-not protect the 
petro-industry or the commercial intrests of a laboratory. 
To that end, again, I ask for comment from all list members that I 
can better judge the intention of the proposals put forward for the 
Australian Standard.
If an unrealistic Australian Standard should be adopted, biodiesel 
will join the black market fuel currently in use by many poorer 
Australians, actually it will improve the properties of the heating 
fuel and solvents currently in use. The problem though is that 
biodiesel will get a bad name if it is involved in a warranty dispute 
by that association. Your assistance would be appreciated.
REgards from Harry.




--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >if the list moderator cannot tolerate views different from his, 
his 
> >comments will be biased.
> 
> I rejoice in views other than mine, otherwise I don't learn and the 
> world is bleak. Regarding biased comments, there is no need for 
> opinions in this matter, the evidence is documentary, it's readily 
> available in the archives, and can be checked.
> 
> As for tolerance, I don't think I need to defend myself on that 
> count. However, the biofuels movement is still very young, fragile 
> and vulnerable, with impressionable newcomers aplenty on one hand 
and 
> powerful enemies on the other, and content with a potentially 
harmful 
> impact sometimes has to be countered.
> 
> On another list, myself and others have been doing battle with an 
> arch-troll, clever and unscrupulous, who sows disinformation on 
> nuclear power being clean, safe, cheap, and free of GG emissions. 
> Countering such "views" is not intolerance, it's downright 
necessary. 
> (It's an example, I'm not comparing the two cases in any other way.)
> 
> >keith's slurs as regards my personal integrity are proof of such a 
> >biased attitude.
> 
> It's demonstrated in your posts. If you can't/won't see it, that's 
> your problem. You have yourself made several slurs in this thread, 
> which you've failed to substantiate, though asked to do so. Slurs 
and 
> sneers.
> 
> >i hold that a moderator should remain in the background, and not 
> >seek the limelight, which is unfortunately not the case with this 
> >list.
> 
> I don't seek the limelight, I never have. The popularity of our 
> website does tend to put me at the centre of things in some ways, 
but 
> that is not something I relish for its own sake. I but seldom have 
to 
> act as moderator on our lists. The vast majority of members require 
> no moderation from me, nor anyone else. There are a tiny number of 
> exceptions, as in all societies. People who try to lay down the law 
> might get short shrift, for instance. I recently laid down some law 
> at the Biofuels list. "Rules," I said. "Nothing is off-topic." 
> Whatever, if you'd like to do better, it's a simple matter to start 
> your own list.
> 
> >i was invited to join this list. i will now proceed to invite 
myself out.
> 
> You were not invited to join this list. You may have been invited 
to 
> join BFIC, but this is not BFIC. But please do as you wish.
> 
> >all the best to all list members, as well as the list 'owner'.
> >
> >in mead, veritas. dick.
> 
> I think not.
> 
> Keith Addison
> 
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Keith Addison
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:48 AM
> >Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] wish i had more time...
> >
> > >Hi Keith
> > >
> > >In fairness (or due to my fuzzy memory) I have to ask, did Dick 
actually say
> > >this (my inverted commas)?
> > >
> > >< > >as that there's "no need for standards">>
> > >
> > >I thought he just didn't like the ones around now, and wanted to 
make up his
> > >own.
> > >
> > >Steve
> >
> >Hi Steve
> >
> >In a sense, yes, but his standards are really just rule-of-thumb
> >checks, not anything a car manufacturer could work with, for
> >instance. But he says that type of standard is just "posturing" and
> >counter-productive.
> >
> >"so i propose we stop posturing re

[biofuels-biz] Re: fuzzy standards

[gjkimlin]

Steve I also await the Australian standard and that may be a mistake. 
Unless of course we can agree that an existing standard has it right. 
If someone wanted to limit the expansion of biodiesel in Australia 
for some reason, a standard that can only be met by big business or 
that relies on the use of a particular type of feedstock would be the 
best way to do it. If that happened through ignorance on the part of 
regulators the effect would be worse since it could have been avoided.
It certainly wouldn't hurt for the group members to pool their 
experience to determine a "Standard" that we can all live with. 
The advisory group responsible for the Australian standard have to 
ask someone for advice. We should be in a position to give that 
advice. 
The starting point is to put our requirements into plain language:
For example: (1)it actually works as a fuel, (2)doesn't make 
pollution worse,(3) doesn't have potential to produce acrolein in a 
poorly maintained engine,(4) doesn't damage an engine any more than 
other fuel.
Once these things are agreed then we can argue about how we can 
pragmatically test for compliance, that is on site quality control.
Personally I would rather that we are not required to use a 
consultant laboratory unless the Standard has to be that complex to 
meet our own criteria.  
 Are the group members willing to post their list of requirements to 
add to (or delete from) the four that I have posted above. Then we 
can get into some debate that will, if nothing else, be of use to me.
Thanks Guys!
 Regards from Harry


In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Wooly ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Dick
> 
> Please let me say I appreciate the tenacity with which you hold to 
your 
> view. Forgive me while I do the same, in the spirit of open 
(friendly) 
> debate>. It isn't intended as a personal attack and never has been.
> 
> <>
> No, they are just different. IMO they are all clear, just don't 
agree with 
> each other. Deal with the on that applies (if one ever does) in 
your 
> territory. It shouldn't concern you whether they agree, especially 
if you 
> don't have a legally enforced standard. It should if one is coming 
because 
> idf you spend money on a process that won't meet that standard...As 
far as 
> my business is concerned, the standard has always been and will 
remain 'the 
> best it can be'. This is hopefully above any dictated 'standard'. I 
just 
> never forget those hours spent on deserted outback highways in the 
cabin of 
> a broken-down truck, due to corrupt fuel. I will never be 
responsible for 
> that happening to someone else.
> 
> < australia, for example, or maybe japan ??>>
> 
> Australia is to have a legally binding standard within 12 months, 
possibly 
> based on ASTM, but maybe 51606. If the DIN standard is chosen, iy 
will lead 
> us into a new minefield - this standard I believe is for RME. We do 
a lot of 
> work with waste oil and tallow (I guess classed as FAME generally 
speaking) 
> meaning the standard would not apply; we'd be expected to comply by 
ignorant 
> politicians anyway.
> 
> < either gc or  nir>>
> 
> No-ones claiming you can! For those parameters (if you are to have 
to meet a 
> standard, like me, soon, and others, for commercial reasons, like 
Camillo 
> and his customers) that require the use of GC, we were debating the 
possible 
> use of NIR in a less accurate but much easier test before you 
proposed that 
> posturing and fuzzy standards were abounding. (I remind you, NOT a 
personal 
> attack)
> 
> < and applicable to real world situations>>
> 
> Yet another standard!! Add it to all the acronyms for oils, esters 
and sucj 
> like that Keith and Dave were discussing. More confusion than that 
you 
> complain about now. going away from the othe kids and making up our 
own game 
> will not solve the problem, one that i don't think is there anyway.
> 
> <>
> 
> Some of us are doing this for the emissions too. Do you know how 
the 
> additive changes the emissions (if it does)?
> 
> I stand my case.
> 
> < you who had latin), tendered in lieu of a factual rebuttal of the 
> information i post, or the opinions i hold, they shall go begging 
for my 
> attention>>
> 
> <>
> 
> No, seriously; if you want to bring the word 'personal' into it, 
when did 
> this happen?
> 
> I'd rather deal with facts too. However, its all about my time, my 
money, my 
> kids' half-dead planet, my vehicle, the air I breathe, and my kids' 
> inheritance that grows even smaller when the oil barons slow 
production down 
> and my doesel goes up, (and they all mean FEELINGS), so would I. 
Doesn't 
> mean it's a personal attack, just a bit of a passion.
> 
> Steve Woolcott
> HarvestEnergy
> Sydney Australia
> 
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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[biofuels-biz] Chemistry questions!!! Unsaturation??, acrolein and IPA

[gjkimlin]

(1) If fatty acids are saturated by mixing with hydrogen and a catylst
(to increase M.P.), can they be unsaturated by oxidation with, for 
example, chlorine bleach or aeration? 
I have some methyl esters from tallow (MP~27C)I will try oxidising 
some to see if the MP will come down. Let you know.
(2) I had asked about using acrolein (propanal) instead of alcohol, 
seems the aldahyde, propanal, polymerises "violently" if contacted by 
alkalai (or most other chemicals)so that angle probably should not be 
explored further, The acrolein can be stabilised by addition of 
hydroquinone if some brave chemist wants to proceed. (we can make 
acrolein from the glycerol)
(3) There was mention of using Iso Propyl Alcohol (IPA) instead of 
methanol, IPA is dearer than 100% ethanol in Brisbane, I intend to 
buy 20l of each to try as a co-solvent for the methyl alcohol. If a 
small enough amount improves the solubility of methanol in the oil it 
may be worth the extra cost to get a "clean" quick reaction and a 
good glycerine drop, especially with difficult or high M.P. material.
All input apreciated.
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuel] Re: biodiesel wash question / idea

[gjkimlin]

Biodiesel disolved the polyurethane adhesive that I had used to seat 
the seal on the old autoclave that I originally used for a reaction 
vessel.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "stujo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok, I found some information on what I have here.
> 
> These are unused dialysis filters. Discontinued so they are 
obsolete. 
> My recycling friend has a whole truckload of them. All are new, 
still 
> in the package.
> 
> The housing is a polycarbonate - He wants this for its high 
recycling 
> price. The rest will be scrap unless we can make a use for it.
> 
> The fibers inside, which produce the many small bubbles, are 
> sythetically modified cellulose. About 200 microns wide.
> 
> The fibers are held into the end pieces with polyurethane.
> 
> Now, I am not a chemist. Will the fibers or polyurethane disolve 
and 
> contaminate the batch? If the polyurethane will not disolve the 
> fibers can be removed and the hundreds of thousands of holes that 
> remain in the polyurethane will still produce the foamy air 
bubbles, 
> I think ???
> 
> I am in the process of taking pictures and will post them on a web 
> address for all to see. If you are still interested I will get some 
> samples out to those that request, but would prefer to limit them 
to 
> US addresses so I am not out a lot in shipping expenses. Currently 
> finances are tight.
> 
> stujo


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[biofuels-biz] Re: [Fwd: [biofuel] Production]

[gjkimlin]

Hi Steve and welcome,
I don't believe that you would need to degum first, but you may need 
to dry the black oil by heating. Don't be heavy handed on the caustic 
and you should be OK. A local natural soap maker would value 
your "impure" glycerol, caustic and all- try to get enough for it to 
at least offset the cost of your meth and IPA, actually you may not 
need the IPA. Hanns has found a local agent for an Indian supplier of 
oil seed presses- we met him on Tuesday (Brisbane). Their gear is 
well made and well priced. I'm hoping that they can supply a glcerol 
still.
A component of one of their systems makes a perfect commercial batch 
reactor for biodiesel at a reasonable price. It is very similar to 
the design Tony and I came up with for our hobbyist kit. You will 
need to build a reflux still to reclaim the methanol if you are going 
to get serious, the design on Kieth's websight is as good as you will 
get and is easy to build.

For a 150l plant I suggest a solar hot water system tank as a 
starting point-get your local scrap merchants to look for one. They 
are made of bright steel and have an axial heating element-you mount 
it vertically. The standard thermostate only goes to ~80C. Its handy 
to have a thermostatic control on your vessel, I bought an electronic 
thermostate for ~$200, If you don't need to get over 100C they are 
cheaper but I like to be able to dry at ~115--120C. I have a number 
of conductivity controlers here that I may be able to modify with the 
right thermistor when I get some time to fiddle-I will let you know.
My email is attached if you want to ask anything and there appears to 
be a Sydney support group starting up, though most questions can be 
asked on this group. I don't have time to follow all threads.
Regards from Harry.
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steven Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> G'day all. Well I guess I must be the next new kid on the block. 
I'm a
> farmer from country Victoria in Australia. I have managed to get my
> hands on some cold pressed oil from a crop research institute and 
have
> been busy making bio-diesel. I have a question to throw open (only 
one
> you ask?!!) Do I need to degum the oil prior to reacting with the
> alcohol & catylist? My impression is that glucosinolates, emzymes,
> lecithins and all the thick gooey things that are no good for 
diesels
> come out with the glycerine (hence the low quality ot the 
glycerine) and
> that if the bio-diesel is washed the washing will remove any excess 
lye,
> methanol and free fattys. Is this correct?
> Why I'm asking is that where I live we use a considerable amount of
> diesel and I honestly think that us big users could be enticed 
(without
> a great deal od effort) to replace a percentage of our crude derived
> distillate with bio-diesel.
> If the above assumption is correct ( would love to hear from anyone
> making bio-diesel from cold pressed oil ) I would be interested in
> setting up my own press, growing and producing bio-diesel and using 
the
> meal to fatten livestock. All suggestions, ideas, revelations, 
critisims
> (however you spell it!!) are welcome.
> Regards
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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[biofuel] acrolein--propenol as a substitute for methanol?

[gjkimlin]

Acrolein is the alcohol of propene (ie propanol with a carbon double 
bond) and is the breakdown product of glycerol as you distill it at 
290C. Addition of  acid(Conc. H2SO4) to glycerol may accellerate the 
break-down. The acrolein can be retrieved with the same reflux still 
used to reclaim unused methanol or ethanol. I'm pretty sure that I 
already have been collecting acrolein when I accidentally leave the 
still attached as I heat the oil to 120C to dry it.
Do any of the chemists out there know if acrolein can be substituted 
for the methanol or ethanol used to transesterify the veggy oil?
Regards from Harry. 


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production

[gjkimlin]

I become concerned when a plant manufacturer says that their plant 
can make biodiesel from tallow. The methyl ester that I have made 
from tallow has a melting point over 22degrees-too high for fuel. 
When mixed with diesel the tallow FAME still solidifies. Does anyone 
have a use for tallow FAME? 

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Peter
> 
> There's been some discussion on the Biofuels list about why your 
> company has to use a free web hosting service like Geocities, with 
> it's annoying banner ads and so on - not something to inspire 
> confidence among would-be clients, one would have thought.
> 
> Also, I've found that Ocean Air Environmental / NOPEC doesn't 
respond 
> to email enquiries. I contacted your company about its change of 
name 
> some months ago when I was told about it by World Energy 
> Alternatives, asking for further information so I could update your 
> details at our (very popular) Biofuels Supplies and Suppliers page, 
> but never got a reply.
> 
> You have two entries, if you want to check - under Biodiesel 
> suppliers and Biodiesel technology:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> 
>  
> 
> >Ocean Air Environmental formally NOPEC owns the Lakeland Florida
> >facility the largest Biodiesel refinery in the world (methyl ester)
> >our existing capacity exceeds 10,000,000 gallons per year, with the
> >ability to increase capacity to 18,000,000 per year.
> >
> >Visit our Biodiesel Website: www.oceanairenvironmental.com
> >http://www.oceanairenvironmental.com
> >THIS SITE IS UNDER RE-DEVELOPMENT
> >
> >Ocean Air provides engineering and technology licensing rights /
> >PROVEN KNOW HOW to several international entities some of which are
> >based in the following countries: Poland, Spain, Thailand... with
> >additional facilities under development throughout the United 
States.
> >
> >It should be noted, that the unique nature of ocean air's proven
> >technology affords the refiner the ability to produce (methyl 
ester)
> >biodiesel from many different sources of feedstock (OAE Biodiesel 
can
> >be produced from recycled oils (yellow grease) and animal fats
> >(tallow, lard, poultry fat).  OAE Biodiesel can also be produced 
from
> >virgin grade vegetable oils (soybean, canola, rapeseed, safflower
> >etc).   Therefore, the refinery is able to utilize the least
> >expensive source of feedstock in order to optimize profits for the
> >refinery owner.
> >
> >Ocean Air Environmental is currently in negotiation for exclusive
> >territorial rights throughout many additional international
> >territories Therefore, please review the following information and
> >let me know if you would like to proceed to the next step.
> >
> >
> >DETAILS:
> >1.  Minimum size production plant for economical operation is 3
> >million gallons/yr (12 million liters/yr), which would need an
> >investment of approx. $5 million
> >
> >2.  If the market dictates, we recommend a plant size of 10 million
> >gallons/yr (40 million liters/yr), which would need an investment 
of
> >$10-12 million
> >
> >3.  The unique aspect of Ocean Air proprietary technology Biodiesel
> >can be produced from recycled oils (yellow grease) and animal fats
> >(tallow, lard, poultry fat).  OAE Biodiesel can also be produced 
from
> >virgin grade vegetable oils (soybean, canola, rapeseed, safflower
> >etc).
> >
> >Regarding our overseas licensing and plant construction, our 
thoughts
> >are as follows:
> >
> >Minimum size biodiesel production plant for profitable operation is
> >10,000 m3/yr or 2.75 million gallons/yr.  Our production facility 
in
> >Florida is 10 million gallons/yr.  The cost of 2.75 million gallons
> >facility would be around $3-4 million.  The cost of 10.0-million
> >gallons/yr facility will be around $10-12 million. We will buy the
> >glycerin byproduct for refining in our plant.  The feedstock for 
this
> >plant can be animal fats (poultry or beef byproduct fat); used
> >cooking oils form restaurants (yellow grease), or virgin vegetable
> >oils (rapeseed, soybean, corn, safflower, cotton seed, canola etc).
> >We provide license and engineering service for the plant.
> >
> >Engineering services for overseas plants typically include front
> >engineering package that contains site analysis, plot plants, 
process
> >flow diagrams, material balances, utility balances, equipment 
sizing,
> >and equipment specification.  The host country typically does the
> >detailed engineering using our front-end engineering package.  We
> >provide continuing support however as needed. The construction also
> >is done by local contractor with us being the advisor as needed.  
We
> >will also provide plant-commissioning support.  The engineering
> >services are provided on a time and material basis at a billing 
rate
> >of $150/hr plus out of pocket expenses.
> >
> >Plant

[biofuel] Re: Australia far exceeding Kyoto emission targets

[gjkimlin]

There is no doubt in my mind that Australia can not meet the Kyoto 
targets. Mostly the problem is one of ego. Only a small fraction of 
Australia could be considered "industrialised" and yet we insist on 
being included as an industrialised nation. The spread of population 
and resources over a massive continental area results in an energy 
usage that is inefficient by European standards. An appropriate 
application of Agenda 21 would see Australia divided into regions 
according to the level of resource development. The cities(about 
900 people) lack the population density nessesary for efficient 
public transport even when heavily subsidised. In polution terms a 
large bus carrying six people is worse than no bus at all. A 
realistic formulae that incorporates the area per head, could allow 
both the US and Australia to participate in the process without 
excessive hardship to either population. (and allow for 
political "face saving") Not that the Europeans are likely to agree 
since that would put the major responsibility for reform back on 
them. The "carbon credit" system is also under threat since doubt has 
been cast on the effectiveness of Forests as carbon sinks- apparently 
their capacity to absorb solar radiation counters their ability to 
reduce the greenhouse effect. 
Regards from Harry.



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=11602
> Planet Ark
> Australia far exceeding Kyoto emission targets
> 
> AUSTRALIA: July 17, 2001
> 
> CANBERRA - Australian greenhouse gas emissions increased 17 percent 
> from 1990 to 1998, far exceeding its Kyoto protocol commitment to 
> increase emissions by only eight percent, government statistics 
> showed yesterday.
> 
> The increase, fuelled by Australia's reliance on fossil fuel 
energy, 
> pushed Australia's emissions to about one percent of the world 
total 
> and four times the world per capita average, the Australian Bureau 
of 
> Statistics said.
> 
> Australia's 19 million inhabitants represent only 0.3 percent of 
the 
> world population. But the bureau said the vast island continent 
could 
> claim the number two slot behind the United States in terms of per 
> capita carbon dioxide emissions. Release of the environmental data 
> coincides with the start of key negotiations in Bonn to salvage the 
> UN-sponsored Kyoto Protocol aimed at getting industrial nations to 
> cut greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> Under the 1997 Kyoto pact, industrialised nations agreed to cut 
> carbon dioxide emissions by an average 5.2 percent from 1990 levels 
> by 2012. Australia won the right to increase its emissions by eight 
> percent.
> 
> Greenhouse gases, which come mainly from burning fossil fuels, are 
> thought to cause global warming.
> 
> But US President George W. Bush has pushed the treaty to the brink 
of 
> extinction, rejecting its targets as harmful to the US economy, and 
> flawed because developing nations are not included - a move 
Australia 
> has said it understands.
> 
> "EMBARRASSMENT" AHEAD OF TALKS
> 
> Australian Greens Senator Bob Brown said the revelation that 
> Australian emissions have increased at more than double the agreed 
> rate was "an embarrassment" on the eve of the crucial talks in Bonn 
> aimed at convincing Washington to rejoin the pact.
> 
> "We are in the top five consuming nations in the world... (and) we 
> emit more greenhouse gases per person than any other country in the 
> world except the USA," Brown said.
> 
> The government report showed Australian emissions of carbon dioxide 
> totalled 16.5 tonnes per person in 1997, second to the United 
States 
> with 20.5 tonnes per person, and more than quadruple the world 
> average of 4.0 tonnes per person.
> 
> Canada was in third place at 15.8 tonnes, while average per capita 
> emissions for European countries stood at 7.7 tonnes.
> 
> Overall energy use nearly tripled between 1978 and 1998, the report 
> also showed, leaving Australia tied with the United States as the 
> second highest per capita energy consumer in the world behind New 
> Zealand.
> 
> The increases pushed Australia's ecological footprint - or amount 
of 
> land per capita needed to produce and assimilate energy and wastes -
 
> to 7.4 hectares (18 acres), matching the United States and more 
than 
> 10 times the footprint of India.
> 
> Only New Zealand's footprint was larger, at 8.6 hectares, followed 
by 
> Canada at 6.0 and Iceland at 4.2 hectares.
> 
> The bottom five energy consuming nations were Bangladesh, India, 
> Pakistan, Egypt and Ethiopia, whose footprints ranged from 0.4 to 
1.0 
> hectares per capita.
> 
> Story by Andrea Hopkins
> 
> REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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[biofuels-biz] Relative feedstock oil prices!

[gjkimlin]

Cottonseed oil producers in Oz keep refering me to the Chicargo 
exchange for oil prices. The Chicargo site does not appear to list 
cottonseed oil as such. When I start surfing after prices on the net 
I run into conflicting information, much I suspect to do with my 
currency conversion. There are variations in the quantity quoted eg. 
mt (1000kg?), tons and even as 10kg prices. I can't really advise 
people (or myself) on viability unless I have a better idea of 
historic bulk oil prices for various feed stocks and importation or 
even export costs since most Australian oil is exported.
Can the group members help by listing the prices that they have paid 
recently for various types of vegy oil, please?
Regards from Harry.


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[biofuels-biz] Re: oz biodiesel plants

[gjkimlin]

The personal use kit reaction and washing vessel will have a total 
capacity of 120 litres allowing for 50 litre of oil per batch. It has 
a conical base for ease of seperation. Base/base process, separate 
methanol/NaOH mixer, pump mixer(with venturi input for methanol), 
thermostat and heater element, bubble wash from existing compressor
(otherwise water spray from mix pump) and a reflux condensor. Cam-
locked on top with optional still vessel.
My own unit is a 200 litre stainless vessel(100 litre oil capacity), 
element,thermostat, mixing pump, vacum filling and distillation, 
reflux element on top,(also fits the meth mixer~100litres capacity).
Our expected production unit (depending on volume of oil tanker, 
probably 25 tonnes per week) is ~10 000litre vessel to process 5-
6000litre of oil as a batch. We would be interested in marketing your 
more sophisticated unit in Australia.
Regards from Harry.


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> harry, what batch size will your personal kits have ? when you 
write 5 ton,
> is that per batch ? are you aiming for acid/base, base/base, or base
> reactions ?
> 
> we are presently delivering 200 k liters/yr plants (expandable to 
500 k
> liters/yr), in argentina/uruguay, and would be interested in some 
sort of
> joint venture arrangement covering oz/nz.
> 
> our plants are semi automatic, two vessel units, with pressure, 
vacuum, and
> temperature inputs.
> 
> cheers, dick.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: MiŽrcoles 4 de Julio de 2001 19:09
> Subject: hear, hear !!!Re: [biofuels-biz] tedious
> 
> 
> We expect to have personal use kits available within a month or so.
> We are currently building a 5 tonne batch processor for our own
> commercial use in Queensland.
> Regards from Harry.
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > in answer to :
> >
> > From: "Wooly ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: MiŽrcoles 4 de Julio de 2001 11:01
> > Subject: [biofuels-biz] tedious
> >
> >
> > > Would it be too presumptuous to suggest that the group we would
> best focus
> > > again on business and commercial production issues, as it did
> when first
> > > started...
> >
> > most definitely agree with you mate.
> >
> > and as long as we're at it, is anybody down under flogging oz or
> kiwi made
> > key-in-hand plants ?
> >
> >  http://www.binacchi.com/glycerine.html
> > > http://www.alba-intl.com/whatbuy.htm
> > > http://www.europacrown.com/products/products.htm (+ look 
around -
> oilseed
> > > xtraction)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Steve Woolcott
> > > HarvestEnergy
> > > Sydney Australia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
__
> ___
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > > Biofuel at WebConX
> > > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Biofuel at WebConX
> http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
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hear, hear !!!Re: [biofuels-biz] tedious

[gjkimlin]

We expect to have personal use kits available within a month or so.  
We are currently building a 5 tonne batch processor for our own 
commercial use in Queensland.
Regards from Harry.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> in answer to :
> 
> From: "Wooly ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: MiŽrcoles 4 de Julio de 2001 11:01
> Subject: [biofuels-biz] tedious
> 
> 
> > Would it be too presumptuous to suggest that the group we would 
best focus
> > again on business and commercial production issues, as it did 
when first
> > started...
> 
> most definitely agree with you mate.
> 
> and as long as we're at it, is anybody down under flogging oz or 
kiwi made
> key-in-hand plants ?
> 
>  http://www.binacchi.com/glycerine.html
> > http://www.alba-intl.com/whatbuy.htm
> > http://www.europacrown.com/products/products.htm (+ look around - 
oilseed
> > xtraction)
> >
> > Regards
> > Steve Woolcott
> > HarvestEnergy
> > Sydney Australia
> >
> >
> >
> > 
__
___
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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[biofuel] Re: hot mixes, and what's in a name

[gjkimlin]

 In Oz the term refers to a person who has a poor grip of reality, 
usually in a compliance or controling orientation. They make very 
good bureaucrats or at least would like to.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> LOL!
> OK
> I think I understand.
> 
> Kirk
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 10:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] hot mixes, and what's in a name
> 
> 
> not quite. it's a person with hairy palms and poor eyesight ;-)
> 
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> 
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [biofuel] hot mixes, and what's in a name
> 
> 
> > A w_nk_r is a foolish person, yes? A "crazy" person?
> > In the states we would say "you're nuts". Right?
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dick Carlstein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:42 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [biofuel] hot mixes, and what's in a name
> >
> >
> > From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: cottonseed oil
> >
> > Greetings Dick the snipper,
> >
> > it's an art, believe me !! (:-D)
> >
> > >settling temp ?
> >
> > Usually remove from heat after reaction and allow to cool to room 
temp.
> > Perhaps maintaining heat could aid settling, any thoughts anyone?
> >
> > our  lc 400 one stage plants maintain 50 celisius and 2 bar 
during mixing
> > and settling. they also pre-mix the naoh and a small quantity of 
meth by
> > shaking, then filter, before adding to rest of meth for methoxyde 
batch.
> > both steps are meant to enhance process repeatability, ie qc. 
good results
> > so far. use virgin oil, consider used oil to be a short distance 
runner, +
> > too much variance between lots.
> >
> > thanks for a good post on used cottonseed oil, paul.
> >
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Peugeot / Off Topic
> >
> > Our 94 diesel Pajero...
> >
> > what's in a name ? in most spanish speaking countries a 'pajero' 
is what
> in
> > oz is known as a 'w_nk_r'. could never understand such a name in 
what is
> > supposed to be a 'global' product
> >
> > so now you know what you're driving, harry !!! (:-D)
> >
> > -
> >
> > tried  lately ? gives you that warm, 'i am considerate' 
feeling.
> > this is a public service message.
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
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[biofuel] Re: hot mixes, and what's in a name

[gjkimlin]

You got that right Dick. The best off road workhorse I'v owned and 
they dress in up like a town car.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: cottonseed oil
> 
> Greetings Dick the snipper,
> 
> it's an art, believe me !! (:-D)
> 
> >settling temp ?
> 
> Usually remove from heat after reaction and allow to cool to room 
temp.
> Perhaps maintaining heat could aid settling, any thoughts anyone?
> 
> our  lc 400 one stage plants maintain 50 celisius and 2 bar during 
mixing
> and settling. they also pre-mix the naoh and a small quantity of 
meth by
> shaking, then filter, before adding to rest of meth for methoxyde 
batch.
> both steps are meant to enhance process repeatability, ie qc. good 
results
> so far. use virgin oil, consider used oil to be a short distance 
runner, +
> too much variance between lots.
> 
> thanks for a good post on used cottonseed oil, paul.
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Peugeot / Off Topic
> 
> Our 94 diesel Pajero...
> 
> what's in a name ? in most spanish speaking countries a 'pajero' is 
what in
> oz is known as a 'w_nk_r'. could never understand such a name in 
what is
> supposed to be a 'global' product
> 
> so now you know what you're driving, harry !!! (:-D)
> 
> -
> 
> tried  lately ? gives you that warm, 'i am considerate' 
feeling.
> this is a public service message.


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[biofuels-biz] Help!! Continuous biodiesel plant wanted.( if the figures add up)

[gjkimlin]

Can anyone direct me to companies that sell continuous biodiesel 
plants.  I followed some links to one web site that looked promising 
and emailed a request for pricing and capacity details but have no 
reply a week later.
Regards from Harry


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[biofuel] Re: Peugeot / Off Topic

[gjkimlin]

Our 94 diesel Pajero runs great on biodiesel and is the best off road 
vehicle I'v driven and we have had a few. It has done 255 000ks the 
last 5000 on various BD mixes.
Regards Harry.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > My Peugeot 404 was better off-road than most of the 4x4
> > > toys I see around these days. I once swapped it with a friend 
for a
> > > few days because I needed his pickup, and when we reswapped he 
said:
> > > "Don't you ever have to put fuel in that thing?" Great long-
distance
> > > car.
> >  Memories, memories, but then I am a Peugeot fanatic.
> >As they say "Engineered to be Enjoyed".
> >Cars designed by Engineers with drivers in mind.
> >Not lumps of metal designed by bean counters for road users.
> >
> >Regards,  Paul.
> 
> :-)
> 
> They were GREAT, those cars! They won all the front places in all 
the 
> tough African rallies every year - what were they, Paris-Dakar, 
East 
> African Safari (is that right?). Then they stopped making them, and 
> the Toyotas took over. The 404 was the best car I've ever had. Do 
you 
> know of anything made today that could compare, Paul?
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/


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[biofuel] Re: cottonseed oil

[gjkimlin]

Paul  have you tried acidifying your washing water?10ml of 35% HCl/L 
of water. A small amount of steam at the last glycerol seperation 
stage seems to remove soaps with the glycerol. (this is the glycerol 
I intend to keep as a hand cleaner.)  10-20mls of water/L to the hot 
product then heat to partially boil off the water. Some of the 
polymerisation may be soap bases misceles. I formed some interesting 
plastic by adding a large excess of NaOH and methanol to cottonseed 
product. I now use less NaOH than I used to and rely on initial 
homogenisation to achieve a good percentage of product.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [biofuel] jathropa oil / castor oil / tung oil / 
cottonseed oil
> 
> 
> Dick over the past few months I have been making small batches of 
BD from
> used cottenseed oil (largest batch so far 4L).
> Forms ester readily.  Have been having some problems with gelling of
> finished product (polymerising?) and difficulty in washing. It 
would appear
> to be a good feedstock,easy to handle-liquid at room temp.
> Perhaps the virgin oil would process in a similar fashion or better.
> 
> Regards   Paul.


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[biofuel] Re: Palm Oil processing

[gjkimlin]

I have had success with palm oil using the two part alkali method. I 
use 5gm/litre NaOH and 120 mls of methanol/litre oil. Allow the oil 
to cool after melting as hot spots seem to boil off methanol. The 
glycerol at stage 1 settles well after 6hrs but is semisolid, before 
that it is liquid but the yield (glycerol) is low. I heat to 
~60degrees C to get a good seperation. After stage two I add 1% water 
after I have heated the oil and glycerol to retrieve the methanol. 
This helps the glycerol to seperate, I will heat it enough to boil 
the water in a recalcitrent batch, 2% water at this stage will take 
out some soaps with little oil loss. I wash with 12ml/litre 35% HCl 
in 100% water and check PH after neutralisation of the Lye. (I am 
slowly reducing the HCl)The water breaks well from the product. If 
you didn'r remove the soap at stage 2 then the bubble wash may result 
in a floating semi solid foam of soap that is easy to remove. 
Otherwise it has always been a distinct layer between product and 
water. I find it is best to waste up to a litre(5%) of product in the 
soap, the product can be retrieved from the soap but affects gelling 
adversely.
20l oil gives about 2.5kg glycerol, 1litre soap and ~19litres of 
urine colored product.
After washing I heat to 105 degrees to remove the water. In the 
mornings this product gells in the fuel drums and stays gelled longer 
than the cottonseed product. I have used it at up to 50% with no 
starting problems at 7gegrees C. The gell liquifies when shaken. 
2.8litre turbo Pajero runs well on 100% cottonseed product but I 
would not use the palm oil product at 100% in winter. Even at 20% the 
motor seems smoother under load and runs a needle width cooler. Smoky 
emmissions are white not black and the fumes do not burn the eyes. 
Maybe the mixture changes the ignition process enough to avoid some 
of the gases that turn to acids on wet membranes. Tony is working on 
the old centripetal pump that we will use to compare power output on 
our stationary test motor, actual comparisons will follow.
Regards Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My tables show melting point of palm oil as being 30 - 38 deg C; 
methyl
> ester 14 deg C and ethyl ester 10 deg C.
> Palm oleine - 20 - 25; 5; 3
> Palm stearine 35 - 40; 21; 18
> Use it as a B20 mix in 80% petrodiesel - the low temperature 
properties of
> the petro product enhance those of biodiesel.
> Warm both to at least 30 deg C before mixing to ensure full 
integration.
> You are still saving 18 to 22% emissions, so there need be no 
conscience
> involved!


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[biofuel] Re: Global Warming Hot Air

[gjkimlin]

This statement by Steitz alludes to an important issue in human 
influence re climate. I agree that human activities may not have been 
warming the earth for the last 50 years. The reasons however are 
important. Surface temperature measurments in Europe did not show 
rises for most of this period, in fact they sometimes showed drops in 
temperature. The particulate pollution load over Europe had been 
cited in the early Earth Cooling scare. The reflective properties of 
this pollution have certainly been reported. The cooling effects of 
volcanic emmisions are well documented and it seems reasonable that 
human generated particulates may have a similar, if smaller effect. 
The difference of course is that volcanic dust eventually settles, 
industrial pollution is continually replaced. For a lot of very good 
reasons people are trying to reduce the industrial pollution load 
with increasing success. I even do a little work in cleaner 
production myself, done properly everyone wins. To a large extent the 
reduction in particulates involves better combustion and more CO2 
production.
The pollution may well mitigate the effects of CO2 but this would 
mean that the glasshouse effect has not been felt yet. A danger is 
that the real impact of global warming could be relatively sudden as 
a threshold is reached in the reduction of pollution. The literature 
most likely contains quanitative material, someone may have the time 
to find it. There are probably models that take into account 
pollution and the predictable solar radiation variation, anyone got a 
reference?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On the report from the National Academy of Sciences this may or may 
> not be of interest. Depending upon your own beliefs.
> 
> Quoted from:
> http://www.boortz.com/nealznuz.htm
> 
> THE GLOBAL WARMING DEBATE CONTINUES 
>  Last week the National Academy of Sciences released a report on so-
> called "global warming."  The Academy did no research of its own ö 
it 
> just created some sort of a compendium of reports from various 
global 
> warming alarmists.  The report flatly stated that global warming 
> (whatever that is) is being caused by human activity.
> 
> Well, it seems that this report didn't exactly sit all that well 
with 
> a former president of the National Academy of Sciences.  The man's 
> name is Frederick Seitz.   [ 
> http://www.pbs.org/transistor/album1/addlbios/seitz.html ]  If you 
> follow that link you see that he is a respected member of the 
> scientific community.  Seitz has now issued a statement concerning 
> the Academy's report.  Here `tis:
> 
> Last month, the White House requested the U.S. National Academy of 
> Sciences (NAS) to prepare an evaluation of climate science to 
better 
> develop policy options for the control of greenhouse gases. The NAS 
> panel's disappointing 24-page report, issued on June 6, does not do 
> justice to the science and even less to the underlying 
observations. 
> The report will cause great damage--to sensible policies, to the 
U.S. 
> economy, and ultimately to science itself. It is a black mark for 
the 
> National Academy. The NAS report's Summary is highly selective of 
the 
> facts. It ignores valid data. It distorts evidence. It uses artful 
> language to dissemble. And it states--in its leading sentence no 
less-
> -that human activities are warming the climate and have done so for 
> 50 years while the bulk of data indicates just the opposite. 
> Conspicuous by its absence is any discussion of solar variability, 
> the most likely cause of climate change. 
> 
>   
> 
> The problem here?  Those people who are absolutely convinced that 
> global warming exists will totally discount the words of this 
learned 
> scientist.  Hey, I'm waiting for evidence ö scientific evidence ö 
> that there IS a global warming problem, and that it's caused by 
human 
> activity.  So far, all I get is computer models.  Meanwhile ö 
people 
> like Seitz make the most sense on the subject.
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi again Warren
> > 
> > This column is propaganda, it's full of the tell-tale 
terminology. 
> > Look at the fourth word. That's a loaded word. The whole thing's 
> > loaded. He's thumping his own barrel. You find plenty of this 
stuff 
> > at both the poles in this issue. The spectrum, as ever, is rather 
> > broader than merely the two extremes of true-believers and 
> sceptics. 
> > One needs to question the agenda of both extremes.
> > 
> > But at last we have the identity of some at least of those 
> > responsible for this vast alleged con-trick that's taking in the 
> > general populace, most of the developed-nation governments and 
some 
> > of the biggest corporations: "This had all the earmarks of a 
> planted 
> > pitch by some of our computer modelers for more government 
money." 
> > Bit of a damp squib, no?
> > 
> > I don't get his angle - the disparity between the models and

[biofuel] Re: Global Warming Hot Air

[gjkimlin]

There is a very simple explanation for this. The satellite data are
>more comprehensive and more accurate than the surface data. They are
>telling us that claims that the earth is overheating are just hot
>air. If the global warming modelers admitted that, their gravy train
>would derail.
The gram molecular weight (GMW) of CO2 is 44gms, Nitrogen (75%) is 
28gms Oxygen (20%) is 32gms and methane is 16gms ( not that that 
suits my argument). The GMW of all gases occupy the same space at the 
same pressure so GMW is a measure of relative density. I for one 
would expect that CO2 would accumulate in the lower atmosphere and 
that global warming would be surface related. I also expect that this 
surface effect would promote climate change. I do however stuggle 
with the concept of ocean warming, ever tried to boil water with a 
blow torch from above the surface?
- A little stir about burning biomass- If it rots instead it also 
produces some CO2. More importantly it produces methane that has 20 
times the glasshouse effect of CO2 and is lighter.
Regards Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi again Warren
> 
> This column is propaganda, it's full of the tell-tale terminology. 
> Look at the fourth word. That's a loaded word. The whole thing's 
> loaded. He's thumping his own barrel. You find plenty of this stuff 
> at both the poles in this issue. The spectrum, as ever, is rather 
> broader than merely the two extremes of true-believers and 
sceptics. 
> One needs to question the agenda of both extremes.
> 
> But at last we have the identity of some at least of those 
> responsible for this vast alleged con-trick that's taking in the 
> general populace, most of the developed-nation governments and some 
> of the biggest corporations: "This had all the earmarks of a 
planted 
> pitch by some of our computer modelers for more government money." 
> Bit of a damp squib, no?
> 
> I don't get his angle - the disparity between the models and the 
> unexpected way different air layers are found to be warming means 
> what? That the whole study should be abandoned? Surely that only 
> identifies an area that needs closer study.
> 
> These are satellite studies, by the way, there are many of them:
> 
> http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/06/06132001/glaciers_43943.asp
> Mountain glaciers shrinking worldwide
> 
> http://enn.com/news/wire-
stories/2001/05/05312001/ap_arcticshrub_43819.asp
> Increased shrubbery found in arctic
> 
> This is not only propaganda, it's BS:
> 
> >There is a very simple explanation for this. The satellite data are
> >more comprehensive and more accurate than the surface data. They 
are
> >telling us that claims that the earth is overheating are just hot
> >air. If the global warming modelers admitted that, their gravy 
train
> >would derail.
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> 
>  
> 
> 
> >FYI, the following is a verbatim quotation from page 13 of the June
> >20th, 2001 issue of 'The Owyhee Avalanche', my local newspaper. In 
a
> >regular column titled 'Accuracy in media', Reed Irvine wrote as
> >follows:
> >
> > >>>
> >Global warming hot air
> >
> >The global warming scare was played up by the media when the 
National
> >Academy of Sciences issued a report on June 6 that said the earth's
> >temperature is rising, mainly because of human actions, and that 
this
> >could cause drastic climatic changes. The news stories and the
> >editorials they inspired cited no empirical evidence that would
> >support the claim that the earth's atmosphere is getting warmer and
> >that this is likely to continue throughout this century. The New 
York
> >Times' 43-column-inch story included only one brief quote from the
> >report of the 11-person panel of atmospheric scientists.
> >
> >It read, "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in the atmosphere as a
> >result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and
> >subsurface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact,
> >rising." That gave the impression that even Dr. Richard Lindzen of
> >M.I.T., a prominent global warming skeptic, had flipped and 
endorsed
> >the theory that human activity is causing the earth to overheat. 
CNN
> >said the panel agreed unanimously. Dr. Lindzen denied this in a
> >column in the Wall Street Journal. He said the Academy had asked 
that
> >the report present a range of views, and that there was no 
consensus,
> >unanimous or otherwise, about long-term climate trends and what
> >caused them.
> >
> >That same day, the New York Times reported that the U.S. has fallen
> >behind Europe and Japan "in its ability to simulate and predict
> >long-term shifts in climate." It said that American researchers 
have
> >to go abroad "to find computers capable of handling their most
> >ambitious climate analyses." This had all the earmarks of a planted
> >pitch by some of our computer modelers for more government mo

Global Warming 101: was Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[gjkimlin]

Global warming is an interesting term. The greenhouse effect, 
relative to the way man's activities are altering the composition of 
the atmosphere, surely must alter the way heat is transfered from 
near the surface of the earth to the upper atmosphere. If the ground 
warms significantly more in summer, then the mixing effects, as heat 
is transfered to and from polar regions, would likely be more 
violent. Not that the storms of the Southern Ocean aren't violent now.
What is odd is that while we may expect more summer days above X 
degrees, we also expect more winter days below -X degrees. Here in 
spring the day temperature may reach 35 degrees celcius and still 
drop to 5 degrees by the next morning. Naturally you need to closely 
watch the opening of the glasshouse. My experience of the tropics is 
that this diurnal range doesn't occur and I gather that it would be 
unusual in temperate regions too. Our subtropical weather has been 
quite unpredictable for decades, particularly rainfall. Tropical 
weather, especially regards monsoons, is also fickle. Unpredictable 
cycles of drought and flood affect productivity and viability.
Places the consider a week without rain a drought may be in for a 
shock. There may be mitigating effects, like will the thawing of 
continental ice be balanced by more atmospheric water and more 
rainfall on land. Melting sea ice has no effect on volume and the 
idea that oceans can be effectively heated enough from above to 
expand significantly is incredible. There seem to be more conflicting 
processes than I can deal with, but even so the question on global 
warming is not whether it will, or is happening, rather what changes 
will we observe. I feel that it is more subtle than a measurable 
change in average daily temperatures and at the same time more 
worrying..
Regards Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This hotlink is for those who think that what I'm about to say is 
horse
> muffins. It's a simple compound interest table. Oddly enough, this 
has
> everything to do with biofuels.
> 
> http://www.cashflowzone.com/compound_interest.htm
> 
> Think about this for a minute. Assuming at worste that no 
one "knows" if
> global warming is a reality effected by human pursuit (a bit 
unrealistic,
> but none-the-less...), then the following analogy is perfectly 
accurate.
> 
> I figure that over the past 24 years, I have paid about $7,200 in 
auto
> insurance. I haven't made but two claims but once during that 
period - a
> broken windscreen and an emergency tow.
> 
> Funny, every time I get in a car, I don't really know for certain 
if I'll be
> driving it home intact or not. I have for 24 years. But I might not.
> 
> Still, just in case, I pay the premium. And should I crumple 
someone else's
> quarter panel or run over their prize winning gerbil (or worse), I 
needn't
> worry considerably about being on a bread and water diet for the 
rest of my
> days or forfeiting my remaining lifespan paying every future 
farthing to
> someone who can barely spell the word "lawsuit."
> 
> Insurance - hedging one's bets - it's all the same thing: a little 
cost in
> and a lifetime of misery prevented.
> 
> Acting as though global warming is a reality is no different than
> insurance - a "little" cost in and future lifetimes of misery 
prevented. One
> can start with conservative employment calculations that 2.5 jobs 
are
> created in efficiency industries compared to 1 in new power 
generation.
> 
> I'll let the financial wizards in the group begin to extrapolate 
other
> percs, like how tax revenues, subsidy payment decreases, cleanup 
costs not
> expended, medical costs preserved and thousands of other savings 
all add up
> and are compounded anually throughout the remainder of history - 
not a half
> bad insurance policy, and pretty low premiums compared to other
> inevitabilities and possibilities.
> 
> I've said it for a decade, energy efficiency and renewables will be 
the fuel
> for this country's next economy. The Pentium & .com craze usurped 
it for a
> bit and George Dubya will slow its arrival date a bit more. But
> none-the-less, it's inevitable.
> 
> Sadly, energy is an ever-in-demand consumable.
> 
> As for those $7,200 in premiums I've paid? At 10% compounded 
annually,
> they've netted someone about $30,000 to date - minus one windscreen 
and a
> tow. Not a bad gamble on the insurance company's part, whose 
profits will
> continue to grow, no matter if I drop dead tomorrow and never pay 
in another
> schilling (about $324,000 in profit 24 years from now).
> 
> Not that I believe it untrue for a minute, but from a capitalist's
> perspective, it doesn't matter if Global Warming is real or not. 
Investing
> as though it is will yield more profit and security than pretending 
it is
> not.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Please do NOT send "u

[biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[gjkimlin]

Global warming is, unfortunately, real enough. Weather is generally 
powered, albeit indirectly, by solar radiant energy. Except where 
there is reflective snow cover, radiant energy is converted to heat, 
directly or via the complicated pathways such as photosynthesis. 
Generally heat warms substances, thermal kinetic energy. Some heat is 
converted back to radiant energy in the form of infra red radiation, 
most however is transfered by conduction and eventually convection. 
It is this convection that directly powers the weather, as updrafts, 
lateral air movement or wind and cool downdrafts. The rotation of the 
earth modifies these movements into swirling patterns. The other 
major effect of the solar energy is transpiration and evaporation. 
Transpiration is the cause of cooling effect of the green stuff as 
opposed to the blacktop. Generally the more available heat and air 
movement the more evaporation. The more evaporation the more clouds. 
Clouds reflect the radiant energy from the sun resulting in a cooling 
of the surface. A feed-back loop if you like. Another odd thing about 
solar radiation is that it only works during the day, I suspect a 
causal relationship(as opposed to a casual relationship). So at night 
the cooling effects continue thus reducing temperature (a measure of 
thermal kinetic energy usually derived by conduction of said energy 
from air to a thermometer). The glasshouse effect is quite different 
to the way the globes temperature generally rises. By absorbing and 
scattering as little of the infrared radiation that was headed back 
to space from the surface of the earth, greenhouse gasses transfer 
more energy to the surounding atmosphere enhancing the process that 
drives the weather. The heat is transported up (convection)to areas 
of the atmosphere that are much cooler and presumably uneffected by 
greenhouse gasses, whereupon it all falls down again- (see chicken 
little). Same as before but more of it. That is more air movement or 
wind, more evaporation, more precipitation. Not that I'v seen any 
precipitation around here for two months. Since this can occur over 
all seasons and many years, the change in weather translates to a 
change in Climate.  Battalions of scientists should be able to screw 
funding out of this one for a long time yet you can tell when grant 
time is near -watch the press for the term "worst case scenario!!".
What was thw question again?
wrote:
> It has even altered the temperature measurements at airports.
> Airports used to be away from the town for safety and noise.
> Often they were surrounded by agriculture.
> Now they are usually surrounded by industry.
> A field of green plants is cooler than cement and blacktop.
> So the newer measurements have that error. (Global warming anyone?)
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher S. Weller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 8:56 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [biofuel] Climate Change
> 
> 
> With all this talk about different factors of climate change has 
there every
> been a study on the effects of black tops (i.e. asphalt roads and 
parking
> lots ) on the heat I'm sure all that heat that is put off has to 
create some
> kind of thermal daft over a city if nothing else?
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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> 
> 
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[biofuel] Cotton seed oil.

[gjkimlin]

I was asked today why there was a ban on feeding cotton meal and oil 
to stock (the Japanese found residual pesticide in Australian beef) 
but the oil was recommended for human cooking. (Not actually cooking 
humans per se more cooking for human consumption)
Does anyone know how or if the contaminants can be removed?
I'm in the midst of my first cotton seed batch.
Some one asked about using the centrifuge for testing purity. I do 
intend to test some product by adding more alcohol and lye to a 
sample and seperating the glycerol with the centrifuge but I'm 
waiting for some proper centifuge tubes. The plastic tubes I have 
been using are destroyed by the combination of the BD and the 
centrifuge.
Harry


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[biofuel] Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)

[gjkimlin]

 Actually Kieth you may be pleased to know that I can see that there 
is sufficient excess  production capacity for the production of bio 
fuels, particularly ethanol. I was concerned that ethanol production 
would be linked to sugar growing. Expansion of sugar production has 
spoilt thousands of Kilometers of bush along our coastline and now 
threatens the Reef with its run off. The Environment Protection Act 
when first introduced in Queensland caused great expense for small, 
as in Mum and Dad businesses sending many to the wall while 
advantaging large business. Our Govt Deptments act as if they prefer 
large businesses ie corporations. Small business is the largest 
employer here and anything that hurts small business hurts small 
people. It took some hard work and came close to violence but we now 
have a win win situation. Small businesses were ready to embrace 
cleaner production, the one solution fits all approach of the 
compliance and policy officers was the problem. Now our farmers are 
facing restrictions that make large parts of their properties 
economically worthless, there is no tax revenue to compensate them 
for their loss. They must have approved Vegetation Management Plans- 
a good thing for farming, the environment and me since I write them- 
but expensive for the farmer. There is a move to have all riparian 
areas revegetated -200m either side of all rivers, 100m either side 
of all creeks and 50m either side of all gullies whether they run or 
not. This is private land and the rather significant loss of arable 
land will be borne by the owner. This was in the original guide lines 
for the Vegetation Act, as usual not actually written into the 
legislation but from the Policy section. It was removed by the 
Minister who prefered political survival. Misguided conservation can 
cause and has caused economic hardship and unemployment here.
Australia exports most of its produce to other developed countries, 
removing sustantial amounts from the market may, at least for a time, 
raise prices and increase exports from developing countries to those 
markets. If that doesn't increase food prices in the undeveloped 
countries I would be surprised, while as you have established 
widening the gap between the rich and poor in those countries.
I still favour the Robin Hood approach of taxing the rich to support 
the poor and pay for environmental costs. I have seen no greater 
disincentive to unnessesary capital accumulation than taxation.
I agree that the new imperialism of large corporations is a great 
threat, to the underdeveloped countries in particular. 
I try to treat all written material objectivly, noted authors, like 
Avery (Saving the Planet with Pesticides and Plastic)can do damage. 
His work was meant to support funding for agricultural research and 
as such focused on material and arguments that suited his purpose. 
Too many people took it as a definitive work on sustainability. 
As for being selective myself, I plead guilty particularly for 
commercial work and baiting Public Servents. I do not mean to cause 
offence- the crack about the World bank was humour wasn't it? Nor 
have I attempted to put forward an argument to convince anyone to 
change their spiritual commitment or whatever.  I have been seeking 
clarity in my own thoughts much of which you have influenced, thank 
you.
Harry
 

 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I also believe that we should always help the poor. Someone once 
said
> >something like "give a man a fish and feed him, teach the man to 
fish and he
> >can feed himself". Another great man said " The poor will always 
be with
> >you". There is plenty of food in this world. There is also plenty 
of
> >unfarmed land in this world. Maybe if the rich countries would 
help teach
> >the poor countries how to be good farmers it would help reduce 
world hunger.
> >I often look a very wealthy people and wonder how much more money 
do they
> >need. This whole thing is about life and how to live it as 
comfortably as is
> >possible. Maybe one day we will have a breakthrough in a 
technonlgy that
> >will help us feed those less fortunate than we. I hope it is soon.
> >Ron
> 
> Well, let me try again! Not worth paying too much attention to 
Harry, 
> below - he only sees what agrees with him. As you say, there's 
plenty 
> of food in this world. The problem is not that the poor countries 
> need to be taught how to farm by the rich countries - the rich 
> countries, and mainly the US, are net food importers on a massive 
> scale, and much of that food comes from the poor countries. No 
> technological "fix" is needed to reduce world hunger - so far such 
> efforts have only made it worse: increasing the hunger and making 
the 
> rich richer. Harry sees some weird conflict between environmental 
> protection and restoring some form of equity and "closing the 
> economic gap", which is indeed the true cause of most hunger - 
> somehow en

[biofuel] Re: Phenol Red

[gjkimlin]

I think that the phenol red turns at about PH 7 the Phenothaline 
turns at about PH 8 ( I think)so you would need more NaOH to turn the 
latter. The Phenol Red may be better to compare oil residue in the 
BD. If you treat the titration as a comparsion you should be OK. Use 
it to calculate the amount of catalyst and measure the residual oil 
in the product. I you want a better yield try more and determine your 
own factor. ie, titration result mls by x = the amount of NaOH needed.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> O.K. so my digital PH meter doesn't do a great job of measuring
> the endpoint of my titration of the WVO to determine the amount
> of lye I need to put in the reaction.
> I have taken the advice of others and tried to find Yellow
> Phenothaline (sp). I called 12 Pool supply houses today and no one
> had heard of YP. All of them said they use Phenol Red to test PH.
> Is Phenol Red and YP the same thing? In the pool test kit I bought
> at WalMart today there is a bottle of Phenol Red, so I mix up the
> alcohol/oil mix add 10 drops of Phenol Red and then slowly add the
> Sodium Hydroxide test soln. after 0.7 ml added the soln was a light
> Rose color then at 0.8 ml the soln turned a bright purple color. 
Just
> to see what would happen if I added more test soln., the color
> didn't change anymore just stayed that bright purple color no matter
> how much soln. I added. Is this normal?


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[biofuel] Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)

[gjkimlin]

 I reread the Food first stuff and found the same as before:
World hunger is like a beggar looking in the window of a restruant or 
Macdonalds. I agree that we need to do something about that. Indeed I 
would like that to be my focus.
There is nothing to suggest that slowing the rate of increase in 
productive capacity will help the poor. Indeed my point is that 
finding ways of closing the economic gap has a higher priority than 
many "green" issues if we are to achieve ecological sustainability. 
OK  concurrent will do. We should be able to feed the world without 
damageing tnhe environment if we work on inequallity. I just don't 
see that as part of the agenda of the Australian environment movement 
and that worries me. Is it really so extreme to say that if we fail 
to adress inequallity the rest of our efforts are wasted??
 How different sustainable agriculture is to the past and present 
systems is important and as it affects employment patterns relevant 
to social equity. Modern farming technologies are not necessarily bad 
if combined with the proven soilbuiding techniques. Low returns are 
another matter, it takes capital in money or time to protect the 
soil. Higher prices are not the answer if the urban poor can afford 
less. I don't mind if you use horses, I like horses. Water buffalow 
are probably nice people too. (No I don't want one).
Regards Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I hear the arguments, but where they lack a logical build up that 
can 
> be followed I treat them as opinion.
> You write as if the green revolution didn't deliver any food to 
people
> (individuals) who were hungry or who would have otherwise died of 
> starvation related disease. The world population has increased by 
> billions, somebody must be surviving. I agree that the increases 
have 
> made a bad situation worse in the long run. There are more people 
> starving now than before possibly even a greater proportion. It 
seems 
> reasonable to blame that on the survival of children who would 
> otherwise have died. Does this mean that it was wrong to feed them?
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "Gary and Jos Kimlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >My wife is studying for a master in Sustainable Agriculture, I'm 
a 
> little
> > >selective in what I read on the subject and so we often argue 
> about such
> > >matters.
> > >I tutor OS students in critical reading (many are trained to 
> believe
> > >everything that they read and suffer real trauma when presented 
> with varying
> > >opinions in a lit. review) so I discard papers that do not have 
a 
> stand
> > >alone logical development that fits the pattern I use for 
students.
> > >(I wouldn't read much of my own ravings)
> > 
> > Are you sure that's why you don't read things? I'm very sceptical.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >Do you seriously believe that alternative agriculture can match 
the
> > >production of the industrialised systems and then increase 
> production to
> > >meet increasing global demand? ( I allow the same level of 
subsidy 
> that you
> > >demonstrate for the Brits).
> > 
> > No need for subsidies. I think I gave you these before, but maybe 
> > they didn't stand up to your critical reading criteria:
> > 
> > One 15-year study found that organic farming is not only kinder 
to 
> > the environment than "conventional", intensive agriculture but 
has 
> > comparable yields of both products and profits. The study showed 
> that 
> > yields of organic maize are identical to yields of maize grown 
with 
> > fertilisers and pesticides, while soil quality in the organic 
> fields 
> > dramatically improves. (Drinkwater, L.E., Wagoner, P. & 
> Sarrantonio, 
> > M. Legume-based cropping systems have reduced carbon and nitrogen 
> > losses. Nature 396, 262-265.)
> > 
> > A Rodale study found that organic farm yields equal factory farm 
> > yields after four years using organic techniques.
> > 
> > "In the USA, for example, the top quarter sustainable agriculture 
> > farmers now have higher yields than conventional farmers, as well 
> as 
> > a much lower negative impact on the environment," says Jules 
> Pretty, 
> > Director of the Centre for Environment and Society at the 
> University 
> > of Essex ("Feeding the world?", SPLICE, August/September 1998, 
> Volume 
> > 4 Issue 6).
> > http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/article2.htm
> > 
> > "The truth, so effectively suppressed that it is now almost 
> > impossible to believe, is that organic farming is the key to 
> feeding 
> > the world." -- The Guardian, August 24, 2000
> > 
> 
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4054683,00.h
> tml
> > 
> > "Organic farming can 'feed the world'" -- BBC Science, September 
> 14, 1999
> > http://www.purefood.org/Organic/orgfeedworld.cfm
> > 
> > "Feeding the world?" Quietly, slowly and very significantly, 
> > sustainable agriculture is sweeping the farming systems of the 

[biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[gjkimlin]

Found Loudermilk can't find the second reference. Loudermilk focuses 
on erosion and siltation. Does a good job of promoting soil 
conservation. What it demonstrates to me is that since we can now 
cultivate the heavy volcanics we should leave the light soils alone.
Sure he discounts climate change but not convincingly, not that that 
was his purpose. Since each author tends to leave out the evidence 
that is irrelevent or nonsupportive of his argument, it may be fair 
to say that a number of factors have affected sustainability over the 
millenia. One wonders what the landscapes would look like if they had 
not been farmed at all? Hills do tend to erode and alluviual valleys 
form. Rivers shift from their bed in one extraordinary flood, 
completely reforming the plain in between. 
One thing is certain; the climate will probably change and for some 
people and places this will be a bad thing. 

In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >Indeed the failure of
> >ancient agricultural systems that persisted up to a thousand years
> >appears to be linked to natural? climate change. Check out the 
little
> >ice age for example.
> 
> http://soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010119lowdermilk.usda/cls.html
> Lowdermilk: Conquest of the Land through Seven Thousand Years
> 
> 
http://soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010113topsoilandciv/010113topsoil
.toc.html
> TOPSOIL AND CIVILIZATION: Table of Contents
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> 
> 


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[biofuel] Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)

[gjkimlin]

I hear the arguments, but where they lack a logical build up that can 
be followed I treat them as opinion.
You write as if the green revolution didn't deliver any food to people
(individuals) who were hungry or who would have otherwise died of 
starvation related disease. The world population has increased by 
billions, somebody must be surviving. I agree that the increases have 
made a bad situation worse in the long run. There are more people 
starving now than before possibly even a greater proportion. It seems 
reasonable to blame that on the survival of children who would 
otherwise have died. Does this mean that it was wrong to feed them?

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Gary and Jos Kimlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >My wife is studying for a master in Sustainable Agriculture, I'm a 
little
> >selective in what I read on the subject and so we often argue 
about such
> >matters.
> >I tutor OS students in critical reading (many are trained to 
believe
> >everything that they read and suffer real trauma when presented 
with varying
> >opinions in a lit. review) so I discard papers that do not have a 
stand
> >alone logical development that fits the pattern I use for students.
> >(I wouldn't read much of my own ravings)
> 
> Are you sure that's why you don't read things? I'm very sceptical.
> 
> 
> 
> >Do you seriously believe that alternative agriculture can match the
> >production of the industrialised systems and then increase 
production to
> >meet increasing global demand? ( I allow the same level of subsidy 
that you
> >demonstrate for the Brits).
> 
> No need for subsidies. I think I gave you these before, but maybe 
> they didn't stand up to your critical reading criteria:
> 
> One 15-year study found that organic farming is not only kinder to 
> the environment than "conventional", intensive agriculture but has 
> comparable yields of both products and profits. The study showed 
that 
> yields of organic maize are identical to yields of maize grown with 
> fertilisers and pesticides, while soil quality in the organic 
fields 
> dramatically improves. (Drinkwater, L.E., Wagoner, P. & 
Sarrantonio, 
> M. Legume-based cropping systems have reduced carbon and nitrogen 
> losses. Nature 396, 262-265.)
> 
> A Rodale study found that organic farm yields equal factory farm 
> yields after four years using organic techniques.
> 
> "In the USA, for example, the top quarter sustainable agriculture 
> farmers now have higher yields than conventional farmers, as well 
as 
> a much lower negative impact on the environment," says Jules 
Pretty, 
> Director of the Centre for Environment and Society at the 
University 
> of Essex ("Feeding the world?", SPLICE, August/September 1998, 
Volume 
> 4 Issue 6).
> http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/article2.htm
> 
> "The truth, so effectively suppressed that it is now almost 
> impossible to believe, is that organic farming is the key to 
feeding 
> the world." -- The Guardian, August 24, 2000
> 
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4054683,00.h
tml
> 
> "Organic farming can 'feed the world'" -- BBC Science, September 
14, 1999
> http://www.purefood.org/Organic/orgfeedworld.cfm
> 
> "Feeding the world?" Quietly, slowly and very significantly, 
> sustainable agriculture is sweeping the farming systems of the 
world.
> http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/article2.htm
> 
> 
> 
> >Note that I once held the view that a series of "natural" 
population crashes
> >should be allowed to reduce human population to a level from which 
we could
> >"rebuild" sustainably. Without the ongoing "green revolution" this 
may have
> >happened, but there was always going to be a maximum population 
size beyond
> >which the ecological damage associated with population crashes 
could be
> >tolerated.
> 
> Yeah, well, we've been through all that before, at least once, but 
> you take no notice and trundle it all out all over again. That's 
why 
> I'm not continuing with this any longer beyond this. I'd change 
what 
> your students wrote: "It's useless arguing with Harry because he 
> doesn't hear anything that disagrees with him." Do you seriously 
> believe that the Green Revolution helps feed people instead of 
> starves them, helps to sustain the environment rather than ruining 
> it? Who've you been reading, Normal Borlaug or the World Bank?
> 
> You talk of land shortages? - Australia could support the same 
> population as China or India. So could the US, or Argentina.
> http://soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010122king/ffcc.html
> F. H. King: Farmers of Forty Centuries
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/


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[biofuel] economy of scale Re: Digest # 491 + ethanol pricing.

[gjkimlin]

I'm not defending them, just making the point that in the struggle to 
make ends meet, people in developed countries will destroy the 
resource for short term survival. 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Gary and Jos Kimlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >I don't want to get in this loop, far too entertaining, but: In 
Queensland's
> >brigalow (nitrogen fixer)belt Farmers clear, and burn, say 100 
acres then
> >cultivate wheat for a couple of seasons, often to replace  
harvesters or
> >other capital equipment. After a few seasons the water retention 
and
> >fertility is such that wheat is not viable, then sheep are grazed 
(if wool
> >has any value) or the land left to regenerate. (if it can in an 
arid
> >environment) before it blows away.  I would be kind if I said that 
the
> >brigalow grows back and renews the soil for another cycle but the 
time
> >factor is large.
> >Can we call it slash and burn when they use D9's?
> 
> Don't have time to be entertaining.
> 
> Your farmers are incompetent - farmers are supposed to be 
husbandmen, 
> husbandry means maintenance, mainly soil fertility maintenance, 
> whereas this is just a mining operation.
> 
> If they knew what they were doing they could have their wheat and 
> wool and mutton indefinitely, in much larger quantities and better 
> quality.
> 
> Here are some references - I doubt you check many of the the refs I 
> provide you with (perhaps it's what you call being "selective"), 
> since your comebacks mostly still lack the information provided, 
but 
> at least the message archives will be complete, if not your 
> information.
> 
> Elliot, Robert. The Clifton Park System of Farming. London, Faber & 
> Faber, 1943.
> Originally published in 1898 as Agricultural Changes, this book's 
> thesis was broadened by Sir Albert Howard, Newman Turner, Louis 
> Bromfield, etc. Elliot developed a system of laying down land to 
> grass, dependent on little input but a complex mixture of 
> deep-rooting pasture seeds. The pasture rotations would be broken 
> after four to eight years, row crops grown until the humus levels 
> declined to a threatening level, and then the field would be 
restored 
> to grass/clover/herbal mixtures. There is a very interesting 
forward 
> by Sir R. George Stapledon. Full text online:
> http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010128elliot/010128toc.html
> 
> Suitable grassland mixtures for Australian and tropical conditions 
> have been developed. Here's an Australian system - not as good but 
it 
> works:
> 
> Yeomans, P.A. The Keyline Plan. Sydney: P.A. Yeomans, 1954.
> After only three years of experimentation with the Keyline system, 
> Yeomans self-published this, his first of several books. In the 
> tradition of Louis Bromfield and Plowman's Folly, it is an 
> eye-opening look at how to help land retain all the rainfall it 
> recieives, opening the whole soil body to root penetration and 
> releasing the natural fertility of the land. This book became an 
> agricultural best seller and sold out. It is still sought after by 
> collectors.  Full text online:
> 
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010125yeomans/010125toc.html
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/


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[biofuel] Re: Food vs Biodiesel production

[gjkimlin]

 I missed a raft of posts as I changed from direct email to browsing-
sorry about that.
I agree that there is a positive correlation between increased 
production and increased marginalisation etc. That it is a causal 
effect is a large step, I'll debate that point when you present 
something to debate. 
Any change in the terms of production change the way money is 
distributed and accumulated. Australia's landed squatocracy has gone 
from the wealthy elite to the growing poor as commodity prices have 
dropped with increased production, our export earnings have increased 
and the GDP has risen. I suspect that the money ends up with the 
Multinationals, who are often the actual exporters, and then to their 
foreign shareholders. Certainly the amount of grain that is fed to 
stock for the meat eaters must have increased with the reduction in 
price of grain thereby diverting yet more production to feeding the 
wealthy. 
The question remains though- what is the link between increased 
global production capacity and poverty. Changes in the way the rich 
get richer and the poor get poorer may have been affected by 
production changes but not nessesarily caused by them.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Gary and Jos Kimlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >Increases in grain production by breeding, irrigation and 
fertiliser have
> >got us ahead in capacity versus demand for the time being. Further 
increases
> >are subject to diminished return on research dollars, in addition 
the funds
> >for such research, more dams, better rural roads and other regional
> >infrastructure are drying up because we are ahead. Oversupply will 
go away,
> >just give it a little time.
> 
> You're just not listening. I can only conclude: "None so deaf..." 
All 
> the factors you mention have mostly led not so much to higher 
> production as to increased marginalisation of rural populations and 
> to countries becoming "self-sufficient" in grain production - ie 
net 
> exporters - while the tally of the hungry goes up and up and up.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/


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[biofuel] Re: Climate Change

[gjkimlin]

Interesting title Ray. But is it climate or just weather? Long range 
weather forcasters have predicted many significant weather events 
based on observed solar cycles. The variation in solar energy 
reaching earth is significant and can cause variations in surface 
temperatures that must have profound effects on our climate. Apart 
from apparent cycles, I am aware of no reason to assume that the sun 
does not experience long term changes in the rate of energy realease. 
Naturally this would lead to climate change. Indeed the failure of 
ancient agricultural systems that persisted up to a thousand years 
appears to be linked to natural? climate change. Check out the little 
ice age for example.
This is not to say that changes in the gaseous composition of the 
earth are not changing climate, or at least the weather. Heavy gases 
accumulate low in the biosphere, within 1000m according to some 
satelite data. The immeadiate convection effects that transfer the 
accumulating heat to areas above the heavy greenhouse gases coupled 
with an increase in evaporation from the oceans must equate to 
substantially different weather. The increase in atmospheric dust and 
cloud would be expected to decrease penetration of solar energy 
leading to a mitigating cooling effect. The weather events that you 
refered to require interactions of thousands of meters of atmosphere 
and lagre temperature variations within that column. But is this 
climate change or simply weather!!
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Ray Foulk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1382000/1382259
.stm
> 
>  
> Sixteen people are now known to have died in devastating floods 
which hit the US states of Texas and Louisiana on Friday and 
Saturday.  Houston, the biggest Texas city has been worst hit. The 
authorities say at least 15 people have died there. At least one 
storm-related death was reported in Louisiana. 
> 
>   Thousands of people in Houston and neighbouring
>   counties have been forced from their homes. 
> 
>   President George W Bush
>   has declared 28 counties of
>   south-east Texas a disaster
>   area, and has ordered
>   federal aid to bolster local
>   efforts. 
> 
>   Some estimates put the
>   flood damage at least
>   $1bn. 
> 
>   A spokesman from the
>   mayor's office said that
>   those who died had mostly
>   drowned, including one
>   woman who died in a
>   flooded lift shaft in
>   Houston. 
> 
>   However, at least two
>   people died of electrocution
>   after coming into contact with downed power lines, 
said
>   the Texas Department of Public Safety. 
> 
>   Tropical deluge 
> 
>   The floods were caused by tropical storm Allison, the
>   first named storm of the hurricane season, which came
>   ashore last week. 
> 
>   A rain gauge in Houston
>   showed that the storm had
>   deposited nearly three feet
>   (one metre) of rain there. 
> 
>   Emergency officials in the
>   city used boats and
>   helicopters to rescue
>   thousands of residents
>   trapped by rising waters at
>   the height of the floods. 
> 
>   "There are more people out
>   there on rooftops than we
>   can possibly even count,
>   much less help," said a
>   Coast Guard spokesman,
>   Rob Wyman. 
> 
>   Nine of the city's major
>   hospitals have declared
>   internal emergencies, many of them affected by power
>   failures. 
> 
>   All the main roads into Houston were flooded to some
>   degree, and many drivers were stranded as their cars
>   either sank or floated in the flood waters. 
> 
>   Alligator alert 
> 
>   In Louisiana, alligators agitated by the storm's 
thunder
>   and lightening, wandered into residential areas. 
> 
>   Officials in two parishes reported capturing 40 
alligators
>   during the week. 
> 
>   "I'll release them back into the swamps unless they 
are
>   big and aggressive," said Richard Roussel IV, an
>   alligator nuisance control officer for St John 
Parish. 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Other uses for biodiesel

[gjkimlin]

Today I compared the viscosity of two samples of BD with three oils 
that I have used as damping fluid in the forks of my race-bike. To 
empty a 5ml pippet took:
BD1-8sec
BD2-9secs
2.5wt oil---17sec
5wt oil 34sec
Extra light (custom blend)--10secs-(my favorite if I could afford it.)
I pay up to $40.00/litre for the standard oils and change 1.5litres 
every 3000kms. Light oils with good lubricating properties that don't 
foam or harden seals are hard to come by. The lighter the oil the 
less heat build up. I'll modify the damping circuit and try a BD 
blend next change.
Regards Harry


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[biofuel] Re: BD Production

[gjkimlin]

I use a 2.5litre conical flask with a watch glass on top and a hot 
plate stirrer. I heat gently with a small stirring bug. The methanol 
tends to refux in the flask (neck stays cool). 2 litres with 140gms 
NaOH took about 5 minutes to dissolve this afternoon. 
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Alan S. Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > Using an aqueous stock solution may be a good idea for making 
solutions
> > for titration, but it isn't a good idea for actually making 
biodiesel.
> 
> Alan, comparison of test batches made using normal methoxide 
against batches
> using methoxide made from conc NaOH soln has revealed no difference 
so far.
> I emphasise that this experience is with small test batches made 
from used
> cottenseed oil. Whether it can be adapted to larger scale 
production has yet
> to be seen.
> I am well aware that water in the feedstock etc can lead to 
problems with
> soap formation etc. Each ml of conc NaOH solution contains 0.6ml of 
water.
> As in photography first know the rules and then break them.
> > Disolving the NaOH in the methanol is neither difficult nor time
> > consuming if you use the right equipment.
> > If you have access to laboratory equipment then use an Erlenmeyer 
flask
> > and a magnetic stirrer with a large stir bar.  How much methoxide 
you
> > can make this way depends on the capacity of the flask and the 
power of
> > the stirrer.
>  have been using a beaker but flask sounds like a better idea, if 
methanol
> overheats (hot plate stirrer could still be warm from heating BD) 
flask
> would act as condensor if only partially filled.
> As you would realise large stir bars have their problems, magnetic 
contact
> with the driver is more easily disrupted as the bar strikes the 
pellets of
> NaOH which cement to the bottom of the vessel.
> The slowness of the methoxide preparation using the magnetic 
stirrer was
> what prompted me to find another way. Again although the conc NaOH 
solution
> works for me in controlled conditions  it may not be suitable for 
other
> situations.
> > If you don't have access to laboratory equipment then go down to 
your
> > local second hand store and find an old blender with a _glass_ 
jar.
> > This should not cost you more than about US$20.  Test the blender 
with
> > water to make sure its seals are good.  Use the blender on its 
lowest
> > setting to minimize the incorporation of air into the mixture.  
This
> > will be good for a litre or so of methoxide at a time.  Make 
absolutely
> > sure this blender is -=*NEVER*=- used for _anything_ else!
> Yes I'd forgotten about the blender method but it is limited in 
capacity for
> large scale production.
> > In either case you should be able to put the ingredients in the 
mixing
> > aparatus, set them stirring, and have the lye completely disolved 
in the
> > methanol in about 20 minutes.
> Once the stock solution of NaOH is prepared (it will last a long 
time if
> protected from air and moisture) methoxide can be prepared 
instantly.
>  >While it's stirring you can be doing  something else.
> Sshh! don't let my wife hear this. She thinks that men can only do 
one thing
> at a time.
> > The more water you can keep out of the biodiesel reaction the 
better.
> > Even a small ammount of water _will_ reduce your yield by a
> > disproportionately high ammount, and worse, the soap produced can 
keep
> > the glycerin from settling out properly.
> Washing has been a problem but strangely enough the batches made 
using the
> conc NaOH soln have been the ones that washed cleaner and stored 
best.
> > As my old shop teacher used to say over and over again; "The 
Right Tools
> > For The Job!"
> Yes but if you haven't got the right tools and the job needs to be 
done a
> little improvisation goes a long way.
> 
> RegardsPaul


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[biofuel] Re: titration ph question

[gjkimlin]

When I titrate with phenalphaline indicator to determine residual oil 
in BD there seems to be a zero error when the BD has been purified. 
i'm trying various methods (as I think of them) to purify the BD to 
check this. Has anyone checked (calibrated) the titration method 
against chromatography or other methods of determining oil content?
Harry

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Burnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 4:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question
> 
> 
> > I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter
> > (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution.
> > My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of
> > 12.2.
> > Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital
> > PH meters?
> 
> "Burnett" as others have explained pH meters only give reliable 
readings in
> ionic solutions and WVO is not usually ionic.
> The pH value is an indication of hydrogen ion or hydroxide ion 
content of a
> material.
> Measuring the pH of water with a pH meter is difficult, you will 
notice that
> the meter takes a long time to stabilise if it does at all.
> As Todd has suggested pH papers would be more suitable. They offer 
a more
> reliable, simpler and less expensive method. High tech they may not 
be but
> they work. They made from a mixture of indicators impregnated into 
paper
> strips. Can be purchased on reels in various ranges ie 6-8 or 8-10 
etc.
> Universal indicator solution is also useful. Again it is a mixture 
of
> indicators. Another use for it is testing the pH of soils etc. 
Barium
> sulphate is spread over the surface of the soil, universal 
indicator added
> and the soil pH determined by matching the colour tinge of the 
barium
> sulphate to the colour chart.
> 
> Regards   Paul
> Various pH ranges are available


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[biofuel] Re: Residual oil in BD.

[gjkimlin]

Re: Paper Chromatography. Are there specific disclosure solutions for 
the glycerol, Esters and oil? I remember(many years ago) spraying an 
essentially invisible separation of esters/oil with some compound 
that disclosed the bands. Can't find a basic text book when you want 
one!!
Regards Harry

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Aleksander  wrote:
> > 
> > I don't really think this is true. Using 200ml methanol per liter 
> of WVO is
> > about a 60% molar excess (that is, 60% more methanol than is 
> actually
> > consumed in the transesterification). The excess helps to shift 
> equilibrium
> > in the desired direction, and I think we can expect something 
like 
> 95%
> > completion. 
> Right. Combined processes need a little less meth, but still a >50% 
> excess.
> 
> When you start cheating on the methanol is when you start
> > seeing more unconverted oil in the BD -- viscosity will be 
> measurably
> > higher as a result.   -K
> You can observe your volumetric yield. With the right quantities of 
> alcohol and catalyst the 95+ % conversion will give 100 to 103% 
volum.
> yield (measured at the same temp). The mass of the ester is 
actually 
> somewhat lower and the volume is 3% higher, which should give at 
> least 10% lower specific gravity (oil/fat vs. ester).
> Oh, and you can determine unreacted triglycs by chromatography. 
> Titration isn't reliable.
> 
> Cheers, Aleks


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[biofuel] Re: Residual oil in BD.

[gjkimlin]

Titration is working now, (batch 1) alkali only 10% oil (batch 2)acid 
then alkali 20% oil. Got the centrifuge working--no separation from 
batch 1---looks like good whisky. Batch 2 gave a solid deposit ~1/5th 
by volume liquid clear but dark. Tried the titration from the BD on 
the very top after 15min at 3500rpm--still came back 8%. Is this a 
zero error or is the oil/BD so well dissolved that the centrifuge 
does not separate them? Currently distilling 100mls from batch 1. 
Intend to titrate what should be pure BD. let you know!! Harry
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> OK What I intend is to attempt to :
> 1) Use bicarb soda to neutralise the acidic BD prior to titration. 
> Hopefully this will give me a constant starting point PH wise.
> 2) Seperate about 5gms of both BD and Source oil (palm) by paper 
> chromatography, ether extract fractions and weigh. Should give a 
> standard oil residue to calibrate my titration. Where will the 
> glycerol end up? I'll let you know!!
> 3) Boil off esters and weigh remainder. ( oil &glycerol?)
> Bit of running around to do first, its 9.47 here I may get to it 
> about 15.00. Thanks for the comments.
> Regards Harry.
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >At best the reaction conditions we are using convert only a 
> fraction of the
> > >WVO to ester.
> > >( Configure the ammount of methanol into the equation for the 
> reaction and
> > >you will see what I mean).
> > >The reaction involves equilibrium and as with a lot of organic 
> chemistry
> > >reactions is not as straightforward as an inorganic reaction. So 
> we can't
> > >just add more methanol and expect more ester.
> > 
> > I don't really think this is true. Using 200ml methanol per liter 
> of WVO is
> > about a 60% molar excess (that is, 60% more methanol than is 
> actually
> > consumed in the transesterification). The excess helps to shift 
> equilibrium
> > in the desired direction, and I think we can expect something 
like 
> 95%
> > completion. When you start cheating on the methanol is when you 
> start
> > seeing more unconverted oil in the BD -- viscosity will be 
> measurably
> > higher as a result.   -K


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[biofuel] Re: zeolite - Digest Number 489

[gjkimlin]

My thoughts on filters and water!!
Since in alcohol the water is in solution I wouldn't expect a filter 
to seperate it out. Alcohol is added to fuel to get water to mix with 
the fuel and so pass through fuel filters and carbies. 
Free water can be filtered from fuel because the water cannot "wet" 
the brass or plastic mesh that is coated with oil and so stays as 
dropplets on the mesh. The water still may squeeze through the mesh 
under pressure depending on mesh size and composition and the surface 
tension of the water. W#ater that has emulsified with an oily 
substance may pass through, again because of a small dropplet size 
and lower tension. If the chip shop washes out the vat with a 
detergent and slops the lot into the oil pick-up drum, then a filter 
could be ineffective. I would expect that a water trap or settling 
seperator would remove any free water that could be seperated by 
filtering. Either way the oil filtering process may be modified ( a 
small sized hydrophobic mesh) to remove some water while removing the 
breadcrumbs, thus saving some energy in the boiling out the water 
stage. 


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I think this is an excellent area of experimentation -- 
thinking back, I
> can recall very simple filters that effectively removed water. Most 
cars used to
> have a glass bowl on the bottom of the fuel pump, where water (and 
dirt) was
> collected. It was only a copper or brass screen that did this, and 
more recently
> I've seen simple brass screen filters on funnels used to fill 
chainsaws that
> were designed to trap water, and did so.
>   However, that was with gasoline, and gasoiline doesn't absorb 
water the
> way alcohol does, so I'm not sure how well it would work with 
ethanol. I'd
> better it would work better with biodiesel -- not sure what Keith 
was refering
> to --- was that theoretical Keith, or were attempts actually made?
> 
> 
> Keith Addison wrote:
> 
> > Hi Cordain
> >
> > We've dealt with filtering water out of WVO before, and the 
consensus
> > was that it wouldn't work. Not sure if dehydrating ethanol by
> > filtering has come up. But the kind of filters you're talking of
> > weren't discussed. If nobody else knows the answer, I very much 
hope
> > it's you who'll be providing it! Are you in a position to 
experiment
> > with these filters?
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > Handmade Projects
> > Tokyo
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > >I'm reposting this question because I do not believe it was 
answered last
> > >time I posted or perhaps I missed the reply. But their are 
marine fuel
> > >filters that are designed to filter the fuel and remove the 
water from it as
> > >well. Their is a serperate resevoir on the bottom of the filter 
that holds
> > >the water and periodically must be dumped. I am fully aware of 
their
> > >operation and intended use, however has anyone used them to 
filter oil or
> > >ethanol to remove the water?
> > >
> > >The filters I have in mind are of the large marine diesel 
variety and I am
> > >in the process of designing a recovery and pre-filter WVO (waste 
vegetable
> > >oil) trailer and am wondering if this filter would be effective 
for my
> > >purposes. Any insight is appreciated.
> > >
> > >regards,
> > >cordain
> > >dulles,va
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> --
> Harmon Seaver, MLIS
> CyberShamanix
> Work 920-203-9633   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[biofuel] Re: Residual oil in BD.

[gjkimlin]

OK What I intend is to attempt to :
1) Use bicarb soda to neutralise the acidic BD prior to titration. 
Hopefully this will give me a constant starting point PH wise.
2) Seperate about 5gms of both BD and Source oil (palm) by paper 
chromatography, ether extract fractions and weigh. Should give a 
standard oil residue to calibrate my titration. Where will the 
glycerol end up? I'll let you know!!
3) Boil off esters and weigh remainder. ( oil &glycerol?)
Bit of running around to do first, its 9.47 here I may get to it 
about 15.00. Thanks for the comments.
Regards Harry.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >At best the reaction conditions we are using convert only a 
fraction of the
> >WVO to ester.
> >( Configure the ammount of methanol into the equation for the 
reaction and
> >you will see what I mean).
> >The reaction involves equilibrium and as with a lot of organic 
chemistry
> >reactions is not as straightforward as an inorganic reaction. So 
we can't
> >just add more methanol and expect more ester.
> 
> I don't really think this is true. Using 200ml methanol per liter 
of WVO is
> about a 60% molar excess (that is, 60% more methanol than is 
actually
> consumed in the transesterification). The excess helps to shift 
equilibrium
> in the desired direction, and I think we can expect something like 
95%
> completion. When you start cheating on the methanol is when you 
start
> seeing more unconverted oil in the BD -- viscosity will be 
measurably
> higher as a result.   -K


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[biofuel] Residual oil in BD.

[gjkimlin]

I attempted to titrate to find how much unprocessed oil remained in 
my BD made from palm oil(I made two batches one two stage base and 
one foolproof method). I found that the BD after drying attained a PH 
of about 6. The titration results seemed to vary more from my various 
attempts to adjust the PH than from the expected reaction. The 
residual unreacted oil may be as high as 10%. I didn't seperate out 
much usable glycerol with the acid then base reaction compared with 
the base only reaction. It may have comer out in the wash.
I had significant foaming problems with the bubble wash in both cases.
How much unprocessed oil are other experimenters finding in the final 
product and how much is too much?
Regards from Harry


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