t-and-f: The Walks
If you do not care for walks, please delete this message, and please do not email me to tell me you don't like them. Thanks. Ok. I have never really paid much attention to the Walks, however, today after watching the Womens race, what an amazing event/race. How incredibly heart breaking to be 150m away from a gold medal and to be told you are out of the race. That Australian lady must be in such a depression tonight. I must say I have such a new respect for the individuals who compete in the Walks. To labor along for 20 or 50k and have your day ended by a judge in just horrible. However, I have a question for the Walkers on the list. Hopefully, this is not a ridiculous question, but what type of long term effects does the event have on your hips and knees? I cringe watching it, it looks as though a Walkers joints are going to pop. Also, question to MIke Rohl. How did the time Michelle put up in the 20k compare to her seasonal best? At any rate, I have a new found respect for the athletes of the "real red-headed step child event" of track and field. Matt Stohl _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
t-and-f: Chris Huffins - class act, Marla Runyan as well.
First off, I am sorry about my numerous posts this week. I tend to be a lurker, but I get so excited about the Olympics (drug allegations and all). I just watched Huffins get interviewed by Jim Grey. Huffins so easily could have been upset about his Bronze instead of the Silver he would have got if Nool had not received any points in the discus. So what does Huffins say? "I got what I deserved today." No hard feelings (ie: bitching about Nool), no trash talking , no taunting (ie: tongue shaking or keep up hand gestures), no stupid comments (ie: dark athletes unable to perform in the cold). Instead he says to the camera (with great sincerity) "Thank you to anyone out there who has believed in me or supported me." Also did anyone catch Marla Runyan's comments about just being thrilled about being in the final and wanting to do anything she can to help Suzie medal. Talk about two class act athletes displaying the true Olympic spirit. Sorry I am on an Olympic high right now! Matt Stohl _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: t-and-f: WARNING - NOT-YET-TELEVISED RESULTS 400m Relay
- Original Message - From: Alan Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track Posts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 2:17 AM Subject: t-and-f: WARNING - NOT-YET-TELEVISED RESULTS 400m Relay PAGE DOWN In the opening round, USA ran Brokenburr, Montgomery, Lewis and Greene. They ran 38.15 to won their heat. Sure, but it was Greene who almost blew it, starting too early or fast. The way the Britains blew it was incredibly stupid. Did they forget to take their Ingelligence Enhancers ;-) ?? Erik
RE: t-and-f: The Walks
Matt, Walkers compete to an older age than other athletes because there is LESS mechanical damage than in running. I know of one or two walkers who have had knee problems later in life but speaking to an orthopaedic surgeon who dealt with the people involved he said it wasn't due to the walking. He says that although the motion looks strange (and strained) it is in fact way less harmful than running and as such is the Ideal sport for even "keep fit athletes" as fitness levels in "average" people who walk are on a par and better than average runners (possibly because they spend less time injured). As a walker myself (European Championships) and (previously a collegiate runner) I would love to hear from anyone who has done or read any research on the subject to either support or otherwise the former view. Also I would love to compare VO2 Max, leg strength, lactate thresholds etc of 20K/50K walkers and 10K upwards runners. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Matt Stohl Sent: 29 September 2000 06:52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: The Walks If you do not care for walks, please delete this message, and please do not email me to tell me you don't like them. Thanks. Ok. I have never really paid much attention to the Walks, however, today after watching the Womens race, what an amazing event/race. How incredibly heart breaking to be 150m away from a gold medal and to be told you are out of the race. That Australian lady must be in such a depression tonight. I must say I have such a new respect for the individuals who compete in the Walks. To labor along for 20 or 50k and have your day ended by a judge in just horrible. However, I have a question for the Walkers on the list. Hopefully, this is not a ridiculous question, but what type of long term effects does the event have on your hips and knees? I cringe watching it, it looks as though a Walkers joints are going to pop. Also, question to MIke Rohl. How did the time Michelle put up in the 20k compare to her seasonal best? At any rate, I have a new found respect for the athletes of the "real red-headed step child event" of track and field. Matt Stohl _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: t-and-f: Men's 200m - RESULTS INCLUDED
I leave it to your imagination as to why he was under instructions not to be on the medal stand. Tony Craddock One of my first thoughts when Kenteris won was that the list (particularly those Americans on it) would start pointing the finger. But I never expected the King of the Conspiracy Theory to turn it on it's head like that. Well done Tony. Just explain. Was it a) because Capel had tested positive and the USOC, USTAF did want a drugs scandal? (I thought at the Olympics that samples were always spiked after the test) b) He's Michael Johnson's best friend and didn't want a fellow American stealing his crown? c) His football club to be didn't want a gold medal winner in their team? d) Because Athens is holding the next Games they needed a gold medal winner? e) NBC didn't have one of their human interest pieces about him? or f) when he blew everyone away in his semi-final he behaved like a prat and we all know prat's fall? Ramble on Tony. Randall Northam
t-and-f: ancient Olympics
Partly, but mostly the Emperor Theodosius shut down the ancient games because they were a pagan religious festival (dedicated to Zeus), and he was a devout and intolerant Christian. Kurt Bray So that's why all the present athletes dedicate their victories to God. Randall Northam
Re: t-and-f: Cassell quote:
"R.T." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote http://www.thestar.com/editorial/updates/olympics/misc/2927SPT04b_SP-RANDY.html this article includes this paragraph: - -- American sprinter Dennis Mitchell was suspended for an illegal level of testosterone, but let off by U.S. Track and Field after offering up the ``sex and beer'' defence. He said his testosterone levels were inflated because he had sex four times and drank five beers the night before. - -- What's this "let off" stuff? I thought Mitchell was made to serve his suspension. This case dragged on for months. Mitchell was effectively banned from august last year till march this year so he only missed out on a couple of outdoor races. I wouldn't call it a "let off" but it is not exactly what you call "made to serve his suspension" either. (since then new rules have been introduced by the IAAF to avoid these cases but that's besides the point) The writer of this article obviously has an agenda and is not interested in facts. Only those facts which seem to support his theory of "the story". And any other facts he bends to support his thesis. In other words, the worst kind of journalism. Well time to wake up! The web is full of it. I hope we're not going to discuss all the garbage that exists out there here on this list. Cheers, Martyn
RE: t-and-f: 200
We Yanks have always been well ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to doping. The East Germans were rank amateurs. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of northam Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 2:10 AM To: posting Subject: t-and-f: 200 My conclusion: Greece and China are the 'East Germany' of the first decade of the 21st Century. RT What's that make the USA? (15 mysteries, Hunter, Mitchell, Slaney, and who knows who else according to Tony Craddock) Randall Northam
t-and-f: More RaceWalking
Am I allowed to post this? Run from race walking One way to trim the fat from a bloated Olympic docket Click here for more on this storyLatest: Thursday September 28, 2000 06:57 PM SYDNEY, Australia -- The International Olympic Committee is frequently taken to task for adding new sports to its already overcrowded schedule. (Did we really need to make an Olympic sport out of trampoline?) The fault, however, is not that new sports are added, since the Games should stay relevant to the interests of society at large. The fault lies in that more sports aren't thrown out on their respective ears. It didn't used to be that way. Cricket, croquet and the once beloved equestrian high jump were evicted after the 1900 Games. The plain high dive, which allowed no twists or somersaults, used to be an Olympic sport. So was live pigeon shooting. Now they won't even release live pigeons as part of the Opening Ceremonies, fearful of traumatizing the little beasts. Golf left after after 1904, the same year the fearful plunge for distance, a diving event, met its Olympic demise. After 1920 the still popular tug-of-war was given the heave-ho daddy-o, and in 1932 rope climbing and the curiously named club swinging were discarded. The last sport to get the axe? Polo in 1936. Small wonder the Olympics is now so bloated it can't get up from its own stuffed couch. One sport in, one sport out, just like the T-shirt drawer. That ought to be the new policy for the Games. And I have just the place to start cleaning house. Race walking. The last good thing to come out of race-walking was Walk, Don't Run, the 1966 Cary Grant-Samantha Eggar-Jim Hutton movie. Since then it's been all downhill. TV hates it. Spectators won't pay to watch it. And no one who isn't in the Olympics practices it, since that ridiculous shamble leads to the utter ruination of your hips. It's so contrived. Why race walking? It isn't fast. It isn't graceful. It isn't even natural. It's a Fourth of July picnic event. Why not an Olympic three-legged race? How about a race that demands walking on your hands? How about race-praying, in which competitors would walk 20 kilometers on their knees? Thursday may have been race walking's nadir, and that's saying something. In the last kilometer of the women's 20K walk, all three leaders were disqualified. Not for drugs, happily, but for not walking legally. In race walking part of the foot must be in contact with the ground at all times. Competitors cannot become airborne. At least they cannot become airborne more than twice, since they're allowed two warnings. Upon the third warning, they're ejected from the race. And that's what happened in Sydney. First 1999 world champion Hongyu Liu of China,who was leading the race as she approached Olympic Stadium, received her third red flag for, um, not walking. You can't really say she was running. But she was definitely airborne, which made me wonder about that 1999 world title. Is that tainted or what? Like she never was airborne there, and suddenly she started kind of bouncing at the Olympics? I don't think so. The new leader was Italy's Elisabetta Perrone . She held that position for about 50 yards when she, too, was red-flagged for the third time. Gone. She couldn't believe it. She kept at it, unwilling to give up her lead. Finally officials convinced her of the horrible truth. If you're in the air, it's not fair. The new leader was Australia's own Jane Saville. She had entered the stadium, 19.8 kilometers behind her. The crowd would have gone wild if anyone gave a damn about race walking, because, as one spectator remarked, Bloody hell, they'd cheer a monkey if it was wearing green and gold. The finish line was in sight, when -- oh no! -- the third red flag for Saville. Evicted from the race. No question, replays showed she was in the air. Another cheat
t-and-f: Men's 1500 Results
Scroll down for results and race description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Watched the race on a fuzzy CBC feed, but I am pretty sure of the splits. It was a fast pace from the start, as El Guerrouj's country-mate Youssef Baba took the duty of early pace setter, leading El Guerrouj, Ngeny, and Lagat through the quarter in around 54 and change. The half mile split was 1:54 at which point El Guerrouj was in the lead, Ngeny 2nd and Lagat 3rd. Sullivan was back in the pack somewhere around 5th or 7th. At 400 to go, it was still El Guerrouj, Ngeny and Lagat, and it remained that way going into the final 100. At this point it was an all out sprint to the end, with Ngeny taking the lead from El Guerrouj with maybe 50m to go. Final finish: 1) Ngeny 3:32:07 New Olympic Record 2) El Guerroj 3:32.32 3) Lagat 3:32.44 4) Baala 3:34.14 5) Sullivan 3:35.50 Pyrah finished back in 10th in 3:39.84 Ken Kozloff Ken Kozloff --- O Orthopaedic Research Laboratories -- ^_ G-161 400 North Ingalls -- \/\ Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0486--- \ (734)763-9674 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _
t-and-f: Men's 200 Travesty and sprint thoughts
Finally got to see the Men's 200 meters last night (and since we didn't win didn't have to wait til midnight!) .. Couple of thoughts .. Not to take anything away from Kenteris, but Capel was clearly the top 200 man in Sydney .. However, no matter how good you are, you can't give everyone a head start and still win the race .. And essentially that is what happened in the final .. I don't know who the start and recall starters were .. Or what kind of experience they have .. But not recalling that race was the most glaring error I have seen at any level of competition, let alone an Olympic final .. Capel clearly moved and should have been called for a false start .. At the very least the field should have been called up and reset .. Instead Capel ended up spotting the field about 5 meters and the rest is history .. Never heard of Kenteris before, and won't make any comments regarding that .. Will say however, that he ran well for two days .. Set multiple PRs, and in the wake of the conditions earned his gold medal, as he better than anyone took advantage of Capel NOT being out in front coming off that turn .. Not Boldon, not Thompson or anyone else inn the race rose to the occasion during that 20+ seconds .. Boldon's secondary medals in Atlanta were blamed on youth and inexperience .. After Sydney's sprints I would say that we may have seen the changing of the guard with Fredericks and he - both extremely fast, but like Ottey just not able to get to the line first in the big ones .. This race was supposed to be Ato's to lose with Mo and MJ out .. And he did .. Lose it that is .. He was never a factor for two days .. Didn't look like a winner from heats to quarters to semis to final .. While he and Greene may have equivalent speed (give or take) Boldon does not have his partners passion for winning .. And that is something that Smith can't give him .. Oba too has all the gifts except the drive .. The passion .. That indomitable will to win .. Fast AND smooth, he should have been the 200 champion .. But when he runs he's just running .. You don't see that drive in his eyes .. That extra oomph in his drive/stride .. Linford Christie is looking like the next John Smith .. His charges have medalled in both sprints now (and his females have also done well) .. His athletes are starting to show that will to win .. So maybe it can be taught .. EArly prediction for 2004 ... Barring injury or the unexplained, if Greene is healthy come Athens he will win the sprint double .. Hands down .. No one else has his speed and no one else has his desire .. The only one I see stopping this train is Capel who is not quite as quick but perhaps a little stronger and has that "attitude" .. That head wagging, look at me I AM good, attitude .. And I know a lot of you out there don't like it .. But THAT is what wins the close races ... THAT is what separates the wheat from the chaff .. When all the training is done you GOTTA BELIEVE .. Greene believes .. Capel believes .. And coming down the stretch in the 200 final Kenteris believed .. Everyone else was guessing or hoping .. And it showed .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Capel and Nool
Netters: We saw some very incompetent officiating yesterday (Thursday) in two Olympic events, both of which affected the fgold medal. Firstm, the 200. When John Capel started to roll and then went back, the proper call of the starter was Stand up. It was not actually a false start, but it is part of the starter's job to notice if anyone is moving on the Set command. I have started a few races myself, but have pbserved countless others and stand up commands are very common in US HS and college meets where, of course, one false start gets you thrown out. It is a little more dificult for one starter to detect such a move when the runners are as spread out as they are in a 200, but that's why they have assistant starters. Capekl lost at least 3-4-tenths of a second at the start, maybe more. Yes, he made a mistake, but the officials compouned it unfairly. Had he been more experienced, of course, he would simply have gone ahead with the false start, gotten his secoind chance and very probablky have won off the way he ran his semi a few hours earlier. Now to the Nool affair. There was no question of his foul on the 3rd try in the DT. A referee has no business reversing a call of this kind unless---and I very much doubt this---he was in a position to see what happened. The camera view, rather than confusing the issue, actualkly clarified it. Having said that, I must add this: the first two throws--which we did not see on NBC--were victims of what I---and some other officials--considred to be a very stupid situationb, i.e., calling a foul when the throw hits the cage. The proper call in the discus should be no throw since this is an aerodynamic implement which can change direction according to wind or even thre way the implement is released. The cage is something new to the sport. I have officiated a number od discus events over the years---mostly in decathlons and pentathlons--and have seen throws which took off apperently headed out of the sector cuurve in and land fairly and vice versa. I believe ythat 1: the cage is closed much too tightly and 2) nbo matter how it is placed, it should not determine whether a throw is foul. The rule should be (and is in our HS manual) A throw which lands outside the sector is a foul, not one that, while still in the air soars for a while appears to be outside of it. So perhaps, while Nool got a break on the 3rd throw, he was cheated by the present style of officiating on the first two., We will never know. Ed Grant
t-and-f: Uninformed comments on men's 200m final
Although I realize that not everyone commenting on the men's 200m final is a sprinter or coach, I am nonetheless surprised at some of the ridiculous remarks being offered up on the list. What Capel did was entirely obvious. He started to move forward before the gun was fired. He was going to break (and should have!). But, he foolishly did what many inexperienced sprinters do -- he "checked" himself, and pulled backwards. Then, the starter (who blew this big-time) fired, and Capel was caught relaxing at the very moment that he should have been wound tight as a spring, concentrating on driving forward at the sound of the gun. I don't suppose I have to point out that the rule states that, after being called to "set," the runners must remain completely motionless until the sound of the gun. Clearly, the moment Capel flinched, in set, the runners should have been told to stand up, and a break should have been called on Capel. Ironically, the starter failed to do for Capel what Capel also failed to do for himself -- actually achieve a false start! Now, Capel's reaction time was 0.2 worse than everyone else's, and this is perfectly understandable. He was "surpised" by the gun. But, let's not lose sight of the fact that he lost the race by 0.4 seconds. In my opinion, in his mind, he panicked at being so far behind, coming off the turn, and ran a poor straight, or actually mentally "quit" at that point. Finally, the remarks regarding Jon Entine and the white-black debate are equally pointless. Despite what most of the group thinks, the proper runners for the US in the 200m final were, of course, Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene. It isn't Jon Entine's fault that the US has the selection system it does. Had the aforementioned two African-Americans run, I believe that a) they would have finished one-two, and b) we would have had a sub-20 performance from each of them. Jon Entine shouldn't be held responsible for how we select our Olympic team! To "tease" him because a white man won this one, very flawed race is absurd. Don Schlesinger
RE: t-and-f: The Walks (refers to new results- don't open if you don't want to know them)
Head and shoulders above anything in the walks is the historical feat of Robert Korzeniowski- a truly remarkable athlete under any criterion. An interesting co incidence: The 4 Polish gold medals in these Olympics come in pairs: 1) Both walks. 2) Both hammer throw events! UG _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Matt Stohl Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 12:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: The Walks If you do not care for walks, please delete this message, and please do not email me to tell me you don't like them. Thanks. Ok. I have never really paid much attention to the Walks, however, today after watching the Womens race, what an amazing event/race. How incredibly heart breaking to be 150m away from a gold medal and to be told you are out of the race. That Australian lady must be in such a depression tonight. I must say I have such a new respect for the individuals who compete in the Walks. To labor along for 20 or 50k and have your day ended by a judge in just horrible. However, I have a question for the Walkers on the list. Hopefully, this is not a ridiculous question, but what type of long term effects does the event have on your hips and knees? I cringe watching it, it looks as though a Walkers joints are going to pop. Also, question to MIke Rohl. How did the time Michelle put up in the 20k compare to her seasonal best? At any rate, I have a new found respect for the athletes of the "real red-headed step child event" of track and field. Matt Stohl _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
t-and-f: Capel
Hi All I might have guessed it. The reason the US failed to win the 200m has nothing to do with the fact that the two greatest in the world were left off the team, nor the fact that the three representatives proved wholly inadequate. No, the failure to win a medal for the first time in 72 years is THE STARTER'S FAULT!!! Capel made a big blunder. It's his own stupid fault. What those criticising the starter are doing is blaming him for failing to bail Capel out of a hole which was of Capel's own making. Clearly Capel did not activate the pressure pads, and we know how sensitive they are. Had he done so, the race would have been called back. In fact he just got his own starting position wrong - his centre of gravity was moving backwards. There was no reason for the starter to help him out by annulling a perfectly good start. Besides, he lost even more during the race. Just goes to show that for all his prancing attitude and his flashy prelim times, he's a novice. I didn't see in him the will-to-win which Conway rightly identified as Greene's great strength. I saw a preening, immature kid with an over-inflated view of his own ability. Not that he doesn't clearly have tons of talent - I just hope that a burning desire to avenge this foul-up keeps him in the sport long enough to fulfil all that great potential. Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: t-and-f: Uninformed comments on men's 200m final
It is equally absurd to assume a persons individual accomplishments are predetermined by race. Sure, in general, East Africans are small, West Africans are strong and quick but, generalities determine nothing for an individual. If I am a white guy with even a little talent I know I am going to believe that I am the freak, the mutation, that with hard work will break the stereotype. Enyine may be correct in his generalization but he ignores the exceptions, which do occur. Never say never. I believe that is malmo's point, and I know it is mine. Mike Platt
t-and-f: Men's 100m and 200m By Country
Hi All A quick points breakdown of the two men's short sprint finals, with 8 points for 1st to 1 point for 8th, makes interesting reading: UK 19 points (3 athletes) US 15 (4) Trinidad13 (1) Bahamas 11 (1) Greece 8 (1) Brazil 3 (1) St Kitts2 (1) Ghana 1 (1) By continent/region: Europe 27 points (4 athletes) Caribbean 26 (3) N.America 15 (4) S.America 3 (1) Africa 1 (1) Thoughts Great performance by Caribbean athletes, reflected in the women's events as well. Only one medal for the USA from 4 finallists. Nothing from Canada or Nigeria, just the one from Brazil. 100m Athletes who might have been expected to make more of an impact: Gardener, Johnson, Shirvington, Ito, Myles-Mills, Ogunkoya, Patrick Johnson. Injuries accounted for Surin, Pavlakakis Notable absentees: Obikwelu, Chris Williams, Fredericks 200m More expected: Boldon, Thompson, Miller, Capel, Heard, Urbas, Chris Williams, Obikwelu Injured: Devonish, Shirvington Absent: Greene, Johnson, Fredericks Overall I thought both competitions were weak. Greene was the solitary star to deliver; none of the support cast looked threatening; Kenteris and Campbell were the only real breakthroughs; the immaturity of Capel, Miller and Johnson showed; the Africans, Canadians and Brazilians disappointing. Not vintage. Poor Frankie Fredericks. That 200m was his for the taking if he'd been fit. Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: t-and-f: Capel
Justin wrote: Hi All I might have guessed it. The reason the US failed to win the 200m has nothing to do with the fact that the two greatest in the world were left off the team, nor the fact that the three representatives proved wholly inadequate. No, the failure to win a medal for the first time in 72 years is THE STARTER'S FAULT!!! No Justin, not the starters fault .. And I don't want anyone to think that was my implication .. But the starter made a serious error .. Pure and simple .. Capel had a responsibility to be ready to run .. And at the crucial moment he wasn't .. But the starter also has a responsibility .. To see that the race if off properly .. And it wasn't and he didn't .. That is all I was trying to point out .. Enough culpability for both Capel and the starter .. Both failed .. However, it is ultimately the job of officials to see that races/jumps/throws etc are conducted according to the rules and that all competitors have equal opportunity .. Just goes to show that for all his prancing attitude and his flashy prelim times, he's a novice. I didn't see in him the will-to-win which Conway rightly identified as Greene's great strength. I saw a preening, immature kid with an over-inflated view of his own ability. Not that he doesn't clearly have tons of talent - I just hope that a burning desire to avenge this foul-up keeps him in the sport long enough to fulfill all that great potential. I too hope he stays in the sport and doesn't bail for football .. He has tons of talent .. But then so does Ato and Oba .. Only time will see if HE realizes it .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: El Guerrouj
scroll... Ron Clarke was as great an athlete as El Guerrouj and suffered a similar fate. UG _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Justin Clouder Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Men's 1500 Women's LJ - CONTAINS RESULTS Below I'm a little sad about the men's 1500m result. I think El Guerrouj deserved to be champion, I think he would have been the rightful champion and I really hope he wins in 2004. It would be terrible for an athlete as great as him not to have an Olympic gold in his career, although if course he would not be the first great to suffer this fate. On the women's LJ, it's sad that the 5 golds hype is likely to mean we see a great achievement as a failure. A sprint double, a close LJ bronze and (as seems likely) two minor relay medals would be awesome, but it won't be written that way. A shame. Lastly a word on the men's 4x100m. What a shambles by the Brits. Just unbelievable. The US looked like they would have been far too strong anyway, but at least the UK may have given them a race. Ho hum. Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
RE: t-and-f: Capel
Conway, You wrote: But the starter also has a responsibility .. To see that the race if off properly .. And it wasn't and he didn't .. That is all I was trying to point out .. Enough culpability for both Capel and the starter .. Both failed .. However, it is ultimately the job of officials to see that races/jumps/throws etc are conducted according to the rules and that all competitors have equal opportunity .. What you are telling us is that (1) Capel got himself into a bad position and (2) the starter should then have stood them up. Nonsense! Capel broke no rules - had he applied pressure, he would have been called for a false start. He just messed up his starting technique. The starter's job is to get them away within the rules. It's NOT his responsibility to make sure it's a nice even break. Capel just blew it. It's his fault alone. Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
t-and-f: GB M 4x100M - what happened?
Anybody see what happened to the UK 4x100M team in the first round? Who did what to whom? Both they and Ghana were clearly contenders (IMHO). Tony Craddock
t-and-f: splits from W 5K, M 10K
The IAAF site has intermediate times with its results, which Sydney2000 lacks. Here are splits from Monday's distance finals: W 5K 3:03.9 Szabo 5:57.4 (2:53.5) Wami 8:58.4 (3:01) Wami 11:53.6 (2:55.2) Kidane 14:41 (2:47.4) Szabo M 10K 2:39.6 Nizigama 5:23.4 (2:43.8) Niz 8:08.1 (2:46.7) " 10:55.5 (2:47.4) Ivuti 13:45.9 (2:50.4) Nizigama (27:31.8 pace) 16:31.2 (2:45.3) Ivuti 19:24.7 (2:53.5) Nizigama 22:04.5 (2:39.8) Korir 24:44.1 (2:39.6) Korir 27:18.1 (2:34.0) Geb (13:32.2 last 5K, 7:52.4 last 3K) Cheers, Alan Shank
t-and-f: Sanity on drug craziness
Y ask Y: Following are two thoughtful posts from the Masterstf Mailing List on egroups. They address doping issues in masters track but have application to the wider discussion of drugs in elite track. Ken Stone After reading Milan's unabashed "solutions" and conclusions on the Olympic drug events, I must weigh in. Even at the risk of alienating some readers with potentially excessive background and detail, I'm venturing out to acquaint all readers with some background on Kathy's "doping" conviction of 1999. My purpose is to assert a contrasting opinion that athletes---masters athletes in particular---cannot accept without question the rules promulgated by those who would be our regulators. In research that I have done since Kathy's suspension (for using methyltestosterone as part of her prescribed Hormone Replacement Therapy) I have not found, nor has anyone in the IOC, USOC, IAAF, WAVA, or USATF medical regulatory hierarchies been able to provide me, any evidence of a linkage between the trace amounts of this medicine and performance enhancement.Moreover, from a sample, the laboratories (and adjudicating bodies) are admittedly unable to determine whether the presence of a very small amount of methyl (such as is documented in Kathy's prescribed HRT regimen) represents the residual of having taken a large amount of hormone at some time in the recent past, or a small amount taken on a daily basis. So instead of establishing such a foundation before promulgating a testing procedure, regulatory bodies just simply ban methyltestosterone altogether. Now as far as regular testosterone is concerned, these same bodies HAVE established a threshold: the presence of more than six times a "normal range" is considered doping. Interestingly in Kathy's case, not only did she NOT test out as having six times the normal range, the addition of her methyltestosterone medicine merely lifted her into a "normal" testosterone range for post menopausal women of her age. Certain conclusions about this medicine and athletics become inescapable: a) There is no evidence linking minute (however determined) amounts of methyltestosterone with athletic performance enhancement. Such a linkage, one should expect, would be the very starting foundation for any specific athlete drug policy. b) Were a linkage (however doubtful) ever established, it would be most important to unequivocally determine whether or not a threshold exists below which no performance enhancement occurs. c) Neither the linkage, nor the threshold, nor the testing procedures which carefully follow and apply these data exists. Instead, as a convenience to the regulatory bodies, notwithstanding the considerable inconvenience and injustice for the athlete, a simple rule-of-detection-only, and one-size-fits-all is the myopic response. Certainly, it is a righteous and uplifting feeling to sound the clarion call for total ban, for all athletes, at all competitions and competition levels, of any kind of drug, used for whatever purpose, that the regulatory bodies pronounce as unfit. But the implications for athletes are really more involved than such a simple declaration. And living with one of those athletes who endures debilitations that are easily solved by unnecessarily prohibited medicines, and who has been stripped of honors fairly achieved, has generated some new perspectives indeed. At the very least, doping procedures, as they relate to the Masters athlete, are wrongheaded and are applied without adequate foundation. I enlist everyone's support for a complete reevaluation and restructure, with appropriate exemptions as warranted in the interim. And I'll reiterate Milan's invitation too: "Other opinions are welcome". Carl Jager Carl Jager's thoughtful contribution to the "drugs" debate prompts me to share with a wider audience another argument that I have tried out on a couple of contributors, privately. Kathy J's tribulations were the impetus for me to think more about the need for different standards for masters athletes. In 1998, I had a hemorrhagic stroke. I was very fortunate, in that the lasting effects have been minimal. I am able to compete. But I am less competive than pre-stroke, in large part because one of the medications that have lowered my b.p. by 20 (upper figure) and 10 (lower) points _also_ slows blood circulation to the extremities, by slowing down the heart. In other words, it adds what I conservatively estimate (taking age into account, and projecting the trend for the previous 10 years) is 1 sec per 100 meters: 2 full seconds in the 200, which was my "best," pre-1998 (although not that great). The beta-blocker makes me slower. Imagine my surprise, then, to discover, in picking up the card with the list of prohibited substances at Eugene, that metoprolol (the b-b) is banned. Why? Apparently because, I learned, target shooters and archers take it to slow down the heeart, and shoot
RE: t-and-f: Capel - redux
Clearly it is Capel's responsibility. Every sprinter is at the mercy of the starter, good or bad. And after looking again and again at the tape, I'm inclined to think that he might not have tanked the race. The key to this was in his post race remarks. In the NCAA, where he ran most of his career, there is a NO false start rule. IMHO he reverted to that mode mentally, got himself in a bind, and the results we all know. But.Greg Foster's butt was moving backwards when they fired the gun for the 110mH at the LA Olympics, he didn't get gold, but he did recover to get a silver. And Katrin Krabbe got herself in a similar predicament in one of the WC 100M finals, and medalled. The golden rule when you start falling apart in the set position is take the false start, which is WAY preferential to being caught rocking back in the wrong direction. Capel's coach should have reminded him of this before the race. And Capel should have remembered he was no longer running under NCAA rules. Tony Craddock ___ At 05:13 PM 9/29/00 +0100, Justin Clouder wrote: Conway, You wrote: But the starter also has a responsibility .. To see that the race if off properly .. And it wasn't and he didn't .. That is all I was trying to point out .. Enough culpability for both Capel and the starter .. Both failed .. However, it is ultimately the job of officials to see that races/jumps/throws etc are conducted according to the rules and that all competitors have equal opportunity .. What you are telling us is that (1) Capel got himself into a bad position and (2) the starter should then have stood them up. Nonsense! Capel broke no rules - had he applied pressure, he would have been called for a false start. He just messed up his starting technique. The starter's job is to get them away within the rules. It's NOT his responsibility to make sure it's a nice even break. Capel just blew it. It's his fault alone. Justin ** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in the message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply Email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet Email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO Ltd or its Group/Associated Companies shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them. Abbott Mead Vickers.BBDO Limited. Registered in England. Registered Number 1935786. Registered Office 151 Marylebone Rd, London NW1 5QE. Telephone 020 7616 3500. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
t-and-f: Drug test failure . . .
According to a breaking BBC story, an "un-named female athlete fails out-of-competition drugs test at Olympics - news coming soon" . . . Anyone running a book on this one? Does Tony Craddock have an inside edge? Paul!
Re: t-and-f: Capel
Justin wrote: What you are telling us is that (1) Capel got himself into a bad position and (2) the starter should then have stood them up. Nonsense! Capel broke no rules - had he applied pressure, he would have been called for a false start. He just messed up his starting technique. The starter's job is to get them away within the rules. It's NOT his responsibility to make sure it's a nice even break. Capel just blew it. It's his fault alone. Then by that reasoning, had Capel broke from the blocks first in a flyer, yet because he didn't apply pressure to the blocks and therefore no recall, you would then say that this is a fair start .. Even though the starter may see yet not call it back because he heard no "beep" in his ear .. I say that BOTH instances are wrong .. And that both are under the eye of the starter .. An incident similar to my example happened this year at the US trials when Brian Lewis clearly false started but the starter had his ear-piece turned off .. Neither the ear-piece nor the pressure sensitive blocks are in charge .. The starter is .. These are just aides to him/her .. The starter is still ultimately responsible for what takes place in the race .. And the starter responsible for seeing that a fair race takes place .. When Capel flinched no one knew whether he was going to get a flyer or rock back in the blocks .. But there was clearly movement and THAT should have been detected by the starter and everyone called up .. Not to bail anyone out .. But that movement has taken place .. Everyone is NOT set .. Everyone come up and lets try this again .. THAT was the starters job .. Again not taking any blame from Capel cause he screwed up .. HE should have kept running til called back .. THAT you learn in high school .. But the starter clearly did not set the field properly .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
Y ask Y: Last night's wire services were full of stories about USATF CEO Craig Masback's wacky proposal that WADA take over all drug testing for USATF. Aside from the hilarious idea of CM making unilateral decisions on behalf of a slow-moving and volunteer-driven organization on such a fundamentally radical move, I have some thoughts on the matter: 1. Masback clearly offered this "solution" to buy time -- a short respite from the media jackals. (Maybe now they'll chew someone else's butt for a change -- or forget about USATF after a few days.) But your out-of-control spin control will only raise further questions, Craigo. 2. Picture this: Los Angeles decides it's tired of the flak over self-policing the LAPD (a deep source of scandal this past year). So Mayor Riordan decides to call in an independent international agency to do the job -- the United Nations! Replace Riordan with Masback, and UN with WADA and you can appreciate how utterly nonsensical this concept is. 3. Fear of athlete lawsuits over lost privacy and confidentiality (by disclosure of suspected drug positives) apparently is the big bugaboo with USATF's drug-testing system. But how would having WADA do the dirty work protect USATF from lawsuits? Might as well make WADA the NGB for track in the USA. 4. Even if WADA does the grunt work in monitoring USA tracksters for drugs, what stops the IAAF or IOC (or this new power, the Court of Arbitration for Sports) from overturning a drug ban? Sotomayor must be laughing his head off. Has IAAF yielded its powers to WADA? 5. Athletes already are suspicious of USATF drug-testing regimens and reliability. How would WADA inspire any more confidence or cooperation? Enuf. Masback's idea (which got immediate thumbs up from the IOC/WADA honcho Dick Pound) is a prescription for disaster -- if not derision. A white guy won the 200. I don't think we should count on many more miracles this year. Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
Was anyone else appalled at how NBC shamelessly villified this man? The darth vader voice and the still pictures that made him look like a child eating ogre? In reality he was a cultured hard working athlete. Cultured and hard working doesn't fit the Drago-underdog Rocky anglethey were trying to frame. "Oh well, let's turn him into a monster" I'm convinced that NBC embodies everything that is wrong with... I'll just leave it at that, they embody everything that is wrong. I attempted to watch t and f last night but was thwarted by synchronized diving and gymnastics. I couldn't watch. I have never known a single person who has participated in either of these activities. Both of them seem better suited for cirque de soleil. By the way, where is the DI XC poll located? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "P.F.Talbot" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "andrew mcdonagh" [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Track list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Costas said: "Despite his image, he is an intelligent man, listen to music and read poetry". Incredible! Who would have believed that a "Russian bear" spending time in the ring would listen to music and read poetry? I just can't believe it! UG __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:33 PM To: P.F.Talbot Cc: andrew mcdonagh; Track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of race walking Netters, From the villiage here... What Costas did. Was in 88. He or rather the producers had some callopy type music played then Costas said :He didn't set a world record, but at least he walked like a man." Now, after that he got a ton of letters and in 92 said "I donb't know haw may racewalkers there are in the U.S. but they sure do write a lot of letters." Then he played a taped tribute. The whispering loudest coment is one said many but the first one i have ever heard it attirbuted to was someone with a last name: Hersh. Honestly don't know which one. The 50k was viloently hot and Koresonoswki is incredible! AOY - no one else can even compare. Two Golds. Defends the undefendable does the undoable double! This rival even a paltry 200-400 double. Back to the villiage. Reports coming soon, now that I can get on a comp. -s
RE: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
Karelin is also a member of the Russian parliament. On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Uri Goldbourt wrote: Costas said: "Despite his image, he is an intelligent man, listen to music and read poetry". Incredible! Who would have believed that a "Russian bear" spending time in the ring would listen to music and read poetry? I just can't believe it! UG __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:33 PM To: P.F.Talbot Cc: andrew mcdonagh; Track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of race walking Netters, From the villiage here... What Costas did. Was in 88. He or rather the producers had some callopy type music played then Costas said :He didn't set a world record, but at least he walked like a man." Now, after that he got a ton of letters and in 92 said "I donb't know haw may racewalkers there are in the U.S. but they sure do write a lot of letters." Then he played a taped tribute. The whispering loudest coment is one said many but the first one i have ever heard it attirbuted to was someone with a last name: Hersh. Honestly don't know which one. The 50k was viloently hot and Koresonoswki is incredible! AOY - no one else can even compare. Two Golds. Defends the undefendable does the undoable double! This rival even a paltry 200-400 double. Back to the villiage. Reports coming soon, now that I can get on a comp. *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: no comment
What's with Calvin Harrison's "no comment" after the 4-by-4 trials? I also heard Suzy Hamilton refused to speak with the media after both her trials and semifinals races. What's up with that? = "This content in no way reflects the opinions, standards, or policy of the United States Air Force Academy or the United States government." __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
i'm so glad it was costas and not carol...or everyone (almost) on the list would be posting and that wasn't his only mistake! louise
Re: t-and-f: Men's 200 Travesty and sprint thoughts
if capel were more experienced, he would have raised his hand when he started to rock backrather than get caught that way..
t-and-f: ignore test
test
Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
I thought it was a disgusting peace of reporting myself. Anything to pull in viewers I guess, including demeaning, and dehumanizing a person, for all we know, might just have worked that much harder than everyone else for 13 years. D Scott Fairbanks wrote: Was anyone else appalled at how NBC shamelessly villified this man? The darth vader voice and the still pictures that made him look like a child eating ogre? In reality he was a cultured hard working athlete. Cultured and hard working doesn't fit the Drago-underdog Rocky anglethey were trying to frame. "Oh well, let's turn him into a monster" I'm convinced that NBC embodies everything that is wrong with... I'll just leave it at that, they embody everything that is wrong. I attempted to watch t and f last night but was thwarted by synchronized diving and gymnastics. I couldn't watch. I have never known a single person who has participated in either of these activities. Both of them seem better suited for cirque de soleil. By the way, where is the DI XC poll located? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "P.F.Talbot" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "andrew mcdonagh" [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Track list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Costas said: "Despite his image, he is an intelligent man, listen to music and read poetry". Incredible! Who would have believed that a "Russian bear" spending time in the ring would listen to music and read poetry? I just can't believe it! UG __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:33 PM To: P.F.Talbot Cc: andrew mcdonagh; Track list Subject: Re: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of race walking Netters, From the villiage here... What Costas did. Was in 88. He or rather the producers had some callopy type music played then Costas said :He didn't set a world record, but at least he walked like a man." Now, after that he got a ton of letters and in 92 said "I donb't know haw may racewalkers there are in the U.S. but they sure do write a lot of letters." Then he played a taped tribute. The whispering loudest coment is one said many but the first one i have ever heard it attirbuted to was someone with a last name: Hersh. Honestly don't know which one. The 50k was viloently hot and Koresonoswki is incredible! AOY - no one else can even compare. Two Golds. Defends the undefendable does the undoable double! This rival even a paltry 200-400 double. Back to the villiage. Reports coming soon, now that I can get on a comp. -s -- Dalton Foster Ph.D. Post-Doctoral Research Associate Department of Medical Physiology Texas AM University HSC (409) 845-7990 Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind. (Albert Einstein)
t-and-f: NCAA Division I National Region XC Polls
NCAA Division I National Region XC Polls for men are located at www.usccca.org These polls are now updated weekly through out the rest of the Cross Country season. Administered by United States Cross Country Coaches Association.
Re: t-and-f: Capel
Capel broke no rules - had he applied pressure, he would have been called for a false start. He just messed up his starting technique. The starter's job is to get them away within the rules. It's NOT his responsibility to make sure it's a nice even break. Capel just blew it. It's his fault alone. This is an interesting but quite flawed way to define the starter's responsibility. Naturally, it's not his responsibility to make sure everyone has a good start. But it IS his responsibility to visually confirm that the start is fair. If an athlete is wavering in the blocks, even without applying pressure to the footpads, the starter is obliged to call the athletes up. Would you have the starter close his eyes and just listen for a beep? There is more to the starter's job than to obey the blocks (which, as we have been hearing, aren't accurate anyway). The starter's own judgement is more important than the pressure gauges. Capel did blow it--but his penalty should have been a recalled start, and not a medal. I have no doubt that if the same had happened to D. Campbell, the British press would have been screaming bloody murder! AGB
t-and-f: Relay trials
Netters: The NBC coverage of the relay trials had so many glitches it would be hard to know where to start. Bad camera angles were one (showing the passes head-on in the 4x400 relay, e.g.). But the omissions were the worst. Why not show the full heat where Great Britain blew the baton. Why not show the Jamaican teams in the 4 x 100---they have a huge following here on the East Coast. And why hold back the women's 4 x 400 (unless there was no first round, which could have been cited if true,m which it was not). And of course, there was no mention during the two-hour telecast the the drive for five was over. (I discovered that by pure accident while trying to find one of last night NJ HS football scores on a local paper's web site. Granted, we did not here that phrase once during the telecast, even during the promos, so we got tipped off by omission, I guess. I would say the US men;s 4x100 team will have to mess up badly not to win, while the women could be in real trouble. Jones will cut the qualifying time quite a bit, but the Bahamas didn't use Ferguson and, without going into a site which will reveal 2nd round results (and maybe even if going into one) I have no idea what the Jamaicans did. The men's 4x400 is, of course, a lock unless something bad happens. It was a nice touch having the Harrisons hand oif to each other. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Chris Huffins - class act
--- Matt Stohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just watched Huffins get interviewed by Jim Grey. Huffins so easily could have been upset about his Bronze instead of the Silver he would have got if Nool had not received any points in the discus. So what does Huffins say? "I got what I deserved today." No hard feelings Huffins does seem like a classy individual, but you know what they say about where nice guys finish... He's obviously very talented, but he seems to have virtually no competitive fire, as Conway talked about with the sprinters. He's probably a very friendly and supportive guy to train with -- he seems more interested in his competitors doing well than in his own performances. Same thing at the Trials. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,400 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Drug test failure . . .
According to a breaking BBC story, an "un-named female athlete fails out-of-competition drugs test at Olympics - news coming soon" . . . Is "out-of-competition at the Olympics" an oxymoron? Was she watching up in the stands and got yanked out her seat to go give a sample? RT
t-and-f: Newspaper editorials RE: Oly Games, track and/or Doping?
Hi All, I'd like to know if any daily newspapers anywhere in the US (or elsewhere) have commented on their editorial page about the the Olympics, about track and/or about doping over the past several months (particularly over the past several days). If you've come across anything, please contact me off list. Thanks in advance. --- | Bob Ramsak | OHIO Track Running Report | http://www.trackprofile.com | Cleveland, Ohio USA | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Random Musings
On NBC's coverage times; I'd recommend just setting up tapes and letting 'em fly. I've made it a habit of always taping the 10 AM (EDT) coverage and the 12:30 AM to 2+ AM coverage regardless of the posted schedule. Luckily I've seen virtually everything as a result. On Capel, I agree that he should have just followed through on the false start. Regardless, let's not take anything away from Kenteris et al! On Nool, I heard that the US and the UK protested - wonder if there was a protest from the silver medalist's country? From what NBC showed, the stepping out of the circle was significant. On the mens' 800, it seems odd to me that Kipketer timed his finish the way he did. Either he's not in top shape, or he blundered quite seriously. Kipketer is a very experienced and very talented runner, who finished 2nd in 1:45+. If he's in shape, he's probably going to be kicking himself for not trying to pick up the pace earlier... Finally, great job by everyone about not disclosing results! I often see the event 24 hrs after it happened due to my taping habits and am really enjoying that there's only been 2 events where I knew what happened before I saw it - and neither were the fault of this list. Dave __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Peta Gaye Dowdie ( Jamaican national 100m champion)
Anyone know if she is going to run in the relays for Jamaica? D Ed Grant wrote: Netters: The NBC coverage of the relay trials had so many glitches it would be hard to know where to start. Bad camera angles were one (showing the passes head-on in the 4x400 relay, e.g.). But the omissions were the worst. Why not show the full heat where Great Britain blew the baton. Why not show the Jamaican teams in the 4 x 100---they have a huge following here on the East Coast. And why hold back the women's 4 x 400 (unless there was no first round, which could have been cited if true,m which it was not). And of course, there was no mention during the two-hour telecast the the "drive for five" was over. (I discovered that by pure accident while trying to find one of last night NJ HS football scores on a local paper's web site. Granted, we did not here that phrase once during the telecast, even during the promos, so we got tipped off by omission, I guess. I would say the US men;s 4x100 team will have to mess up badly not to win, while the women could be in real trouble. Jones will cut the qualifying time quite a bit, but the Bahamas didn't use Ferguson and, without going into a site which will reveal 2nd round results (and maybe even if going into one) I have no idea what the Jamaicans did. The men's 4x400 is, of course, a lock unless something bad happens. It was a nice touch having the Harrisons hand oif to each other. Ed Grant -- Dalton Foster Ph.D. Post-Doctoral Research Associate Department of Medical Physiology Texas AM University HSC (409) 845-7990 Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind. (Albert Einstein)
Re: t-and-f: Capel and Nool
Having said that, I must add this: the first two throws--which we did not see on NBC--were victims of what I---and some other officials--considred to be a very stupid situationb, i.e., calling a foul when the throw hits the cage. The proper call in the discus should be "no throw" since this is an aerodynamic implement which can change direction according to wind or even thre way the implement is released. The cage is something new to the sport. I have officiated a number od discus events over the years---mostly in decathlons and pentathlons--and have seen throws which took off apperently headed out of the sector cuurve in and land fairly and vice versa. I believe ythat 1: the cage is closed much too tightly and 2) nbo matter how it is placed, it should not determine whether a throw is foul. The rule should be (and is in our HS manual) "A throw which lands outside the sector is a foul," not one that, while still in the air soars for a while appears to be outside of it. So perhaps, while Nool got a break on the 3rd throw, he was "cheated" by the present style of officiating on the first two., We will never know. Doesn't have anything to do with "style" of officiating- it's right in the rule book. Very explicit. The only way somebody can get a "no throw" (and another try) is if they protest that the cage 'doors' were not set correctly- i.e. they were moved for a 'leftie' and the officials forgot to move them back when the next thrower is a right-hander. Getting the implement through the 'window' of the cage doors is now part of the event. The inside edge of the cage doors carries the same rule relevance as the sector lines. The rule change was part of the price to pay to keep events like the hammer from being totally dropped as a standard event for safety reasons. The only exception, at least for USATF (I'm not sure about IAAF), is that if the implement hits the cage and still lands inside the sector, it's a valid throw. (But most athletes will intentionally foul it anyway, because the deflection usually makes it a very SHORT throw). P.S.- if an athlete knows they have a wider-than-usual circumference, meaning the implement is released further from the center of the ring than most people (longer arms?), they have every right to ask the officials to open the door a little wider. Fail to ask- it's assumed that you accept the conditions, so bury the implement in the net and it's a foul. Ask, and the officials refuse- then bury the implement in the net, and you've got a pretty valid reason for a protest. RT
Re: t-and-f: Capel
- Original Message - From: R.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] The starter's judgement was sound. Capel wavered, but did not distract the other runners. I think Ato Boldon said otherwise. RT Oh, that explains his poor time ;-) Given that Boldon was at least 10 yards ahead of Capel to begin with, I find that questionable. It might be that Christian Malcom, who would have been a yard or two behind Capel, was distracted. Malcolm did have the third slowest reaction time. Boldon , Campbell and Kenteris all reacted to the shot slightly faster than Greene did during the 100m final, so they can't have been too bothered. In general, reaction times during the 200m compared favourably to the reaction times in the 100m. (Except one, that is :-) -- Elliott Oti
Re: t-and-f: Chris Huffins - class act
At 12:01 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Dan Kaplan wrote: --- Matt Stohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just watched Huffins get interviewed by Jim Grey. Huffins so easily could have been upset about his Bronze instead of the Silver he would have got if Nool had not received any points in the discus. So what does Huffins say? "I got what I deserved today." No hard feelings Huffins does seem like a classy individual, but you know what they say about where nice guys finish... He's obviously very talented, but he seems to have virtually no competitive fire, as Conway talked about with the sprinters. He's probably a very friendly and supportive guy to train with -- he seems more interested in his competitors doing well than in his own performances. Same thing at the Trials. Dan, this is way off the mark. Nice guys can still have the drive to win -- think of the guys we wanted to have dinner with, Alan Johnson and Charles Austin. Anyone who was in Atlanta for the HJ knows that. Furthermore, for the year 2000 model of Huffins, your comment is particularly inappropriate. Look at the decathlon 1500. Huffins ran the race of his life -- and did well enough on pre-1500 prognostications to hold off Sebrle. It wasn't quite enough -- but he showed great intestinal fortitude. But for a wrong call by the referee, Huffins was 11 points from an OG gold medal in the decathlon. Don't tell me he doesn't have the drive to win. Coty Pinckney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: t-and-f--anyone have a copy of Geb's race???
Hi all, If anyone has a copy of Geb's 200010k Olympic race on videotape, I would be interested in acquiring a copy. Thanks, Jeff Benjamin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Any word on Gwen Torrence?
The USA relay teams really can use her at this time. She had been the anchor (winning anchor might I add) on the 4 by 100 meter relay for the past 2 Olympics. Once again, word on the street has it that she still has NOT retired. Anybody know anything about her. How her training is going, how well is she getting back in shape (she just had a baby about a year ago). If you know anything, please post it because she had a lot of fans who would like to know how she's doing.
Re: t-and-f: Capel - Greece is East Germany of today?
The starter's judgement was sound. Capel wavered, but did not distract the other runners. I think Ato Boldon said otherwise. RT Ato Boldon was running at the 8th lane. Capel at the 4th. How could Boldon be distracted by a movement he never saw??? On the East Germany - Greece comment. You may be right. But, I am pretty sure that USA today remains the USA it was. If you don't get what I mean, perhaps ask malmo... Panayotis Christopoulos www.athletix.gr
t-and-f: Kipketer
On Kipketer: I have seen him run against a similar background before. In 1998, he had just returned from his long bout with malaria. It was in Budapest in the European championships and he was running against a similar field, at least in terms of European rivals (No Sepeng or Guerni). In the end he left too much to be done. Once Schumann blazed home, he despaired and jogged home in 6th place ,I think. When he was running in years of good health and complete season, he never had these problem. If you analyze El-Gerrouj and Barmassai's losses, they were not that different from Kipketer's. Off a quick pace, Baramssai would not have been involved in that Skirmish. In fact, he has repeated his grave mistake from last year in Seville. He is a physically small runner with a fantastic stamina. His worst scenario is a crowded finish off a slow pace. El Guerrouj erred by NOT resorting to last year's tactics of running lightning fast in the front aided by Kaouch (a-la-Keino/Jipcho in 1968) and annihilating the Spanish opposition.. UG __- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dave Cameron Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 2:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Random Musings On NBC's coverage times; I'd recommend just setting up tapes and letting 'em fly. I've made it a habit of always taping the 10 AM (EDT) coverage and the 12:30 AM to 2+ AM coverage regardless of the posted schedule. Luckily I've seen virtually everything as a result. On Capel, I agree that he should have just followed through on the false start. Regardless, let's not take anything away from Kenteris et al! On Nool, I heard that the US and the UK protested - wonder if there was a protest from the silver medalist's country? From what NBC showed, the stepping out of the circle was significant. On the mens' 800, it seems odd to me that Kipketer timed his finish the way he did. Either he's not in top shape, or he blundered quite seriously. Kipketer is a very experienced and very talented runner, who finished 2nd in 1:45+. If he's in shape, he's probably going to be kicking himself for not trying to pick up the pace earlier... Finally, great job by everyone about not disclosing results! I often see the event 24 hrs after it happened due to my taping habits and am really enjoying that there's only been 2 events where I knew what happened before I saw it - and neither were the fault of this list. Dave __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Capel - Greece is East Germany of today?
As Charlie Francis, Ben Johnson's coach, said about the Seoul 100M Final. "I don't call it cheating when everyone is competing on a level playing field. I only call it cheating when one person is doing something that no-one else is doing." That's why Francis is no longer in the business. Cheating is cheating no matter how many other people are doing it. Francis has always been free and easy to use words like 'EVERYONE', in order to justify his own misbehaviour. If he wants to lower himself to the lowest common denominator, guess what that makes him... that's right, the LOWEST of the low. Bet he didn't ask his mom what she thought of what he was doing. I'd rather have a clean conscience and get a bronze, than win a gold but can't even look my mother straight in the face and tell the truth. The Olympics are not important enough to sacrifice my values. If it's important enough for MOST people to sacrifice THEIR values (if they had any redeemable values to start with), then I am no longer interested in the Olympics. I've got better ways to spend my time. RT
Re: t-and-f: Chris Huffins - class act
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Coty Pinckney) wrote: Huffins does seem like a classy individual, but you know what they say about where nice guys finish... He's obviously very talented, but he seems to have virtually no competitive fire, as Conway talked about with the sprinters. He's probably a very friendly and supportive guy to train with -- he seems more interested in his competitors doing well than in his own performances. Same thing at the Trials. Dan, this is way off the mark. Nice guys can still have the drive to win -- think of the guys we wanted to have dinner with, Alan Johnson and Charles Austin. Anyone who was in Atlanta for the HJ knows that. First of all, I thought it should be clear from the way I stated the above that I was being sarcastic. Obviously, Huffins did not finish last. On the other hand, he obviously did not finish first, so the cliche has some merit. Second, think of the guys we *did not* want to have dinner with. The nice guy as champion thing is generally an exception. As has been mentioned in several recent threads, to excel at anything on the world stage generally requires being arrogant as hell. Just depends on how the demeanor is shown. I've seen no sign of even the slightest flash of arrogance from Huffins. That's great as a person, but not so great for someone trying to reach the top of the podium. Is it really so off the mark, or is it just hard to stomach? Furthermore, for the year 2000 model of Huffins, your comment is particularly inappropriate. Look at the decathlon 1500. Huffins ran the race of his life -- and did well enough on pre-1500 prognostications to hold off Sebrle. It wasn't quite enough -- but he showed great intestinal fortitude. But for a wrong call by the referee, Huffins was 11 points from an OG gold medal in the decathlon. Don't tell me he doesn't have the drive to win. I never questioned his ability. I did, however, question his drive to win, and I still do. Maybe I'll stop questioning that when I see him win a big one, or at least show some fire in the process. Finishing strong (1500) is a lot easier when you have others pulling you, both in overall competition and in the event, instead of leading the field. The sign of a champion is doing what it takes to win, not simply doing what people thought beforehand would be sufficient to win. The latter is simply following a game plan. The former is getting out there and competing. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - AbleDesign, Web Design that Can! http://Run-Down.com - 8,400 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Capel - Greece is East Germany of today?
As Charlie Francis, Ben Johnson's coach, said about the Seoul 100M Final. I don't call it cheating when everyone is competing on a level playing field. I only call it cheating when one person is doing something that no-one else is doing. Tony Craddock __ At 12:00 AM 9/30/00 +0300, Panayotis Christopoulos wrote: The starter's judgement was sound. Capel wavered, but did not distract the other runners. I think Ato Boldon said otherwise. RT Ato Boldon was running at the 8th lane. Capel at the 4th. How could Boldon be distracted by a movement he never saw??? On the East Germany - Greece comment. You may be right. But, I am pretty sure that USA today remains the USA it was. If you don't get what I mean, perhaps ask malmo... Panayotis Christopoulos www.athletix.gr
t-and-f: Kushman's summary.....
Just to follow up on what the whole bloody summer has amounted to from this spectator's point of view Cudos to Sacramento Bee scribe Rick Kushman who was spot on regarding the wunnerful NBC Olympic packaging. The following paragraph from his pen could as well have appeared in a capsulization of the Sacramento Trials. from my perspective: "I wonder. have the Sac Committee officials noticed any of the fans in Sydney standing, being "overly loud and enthusiastic" about what they're observing? I haven't observed any officers prancing through the spectator sections. and I haven't seen even one spectator seated behind those overly excited spectators who took the liberty to stand, yell, jump up and down, hoot, hollar, cheer, embrase and otherwise celebrate the moment." H... guess those in the stands down under have never heard of Hornet Stadium and its recent Elizabeth Post guide on how to "Spectating the U.S. Olympic T/F Trials in Sacramento." . from: NBC's Sydney Scandal By Rick Kushman Bee TV Columnist (Published Sept. 29, 2000) But NBC doesn't care about fun. It cares about ratings. And that gets to the core of everyone's disappointment and anger: We feel cheated and, worse, manipulated. We hate being manipulated.
t-and-f: Will to win
I mentioned it when I talked about the 200 final .. And it has been mentioned with respect to Chris Huffins .. But I would have to say that it seems to be a common theme in these games .. And something that I have noticed for about a decade or so now - that drive to win .. I grew up during the Jim Hines, Charlie Greene, Valeri Borzov, Pietro Mennea, Steve Williams, Don Quarrie time line of sprinting .. When guys hung it on the line weekly .. When you could see in their eyes that if someone was going to beat them they would have to die trying .. Somewhere during the 80's that seems to have gotten lost .. I see few Steve Ovetts's or Seb Coe's - milers that seemed to have that "sprinters" gunslinger mentality .. Few Tommie Smith's, John Carlos', or Lee Evan's .. Few Carl Lewis' .. Sure there are Mo, Marion and MJ .. And perhaps Freeman .. But aside from them who else steps on the track with NO fear in their eyes .. Who else dares you to come take the medal away from them .. This Olympics is full of "upsets" .. But are they upsets because these individuals run fast and jump high with regularity, or because they take you to task every time out and this time just fell short ?? Just an observation and a question .. If I am way out there some one please tell me .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: t-and-f: Uninformed comments on men's 200m final
OUT OF FIVE FREAKIN BILLION PEOPLE IN THE WORLD YOU CAN ONLY FIND TWO WHO DIDN'T QUALIFY TO SUPPORT ENTINE'S "POINTLESS COMMENT"? What were the PR's of the guys in the Sydney 200 final? What do you think Kenteris would have run in ideal sprint conditions? Capel was a non-factor regardless of the false start. Period. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics Finally, the remarks regarding Jon Entine and the white-black debate are equally pointless. Despite what most of the group thinks, the proper runners for the US in the 200m final were, of course, Michael Johnson and Maurice Greene. It isn't Jon Entine's fault that the US has the selection system it does. Had the aforementioned two African-Americans run, I believe that a) they would have finished one-two, and b) we would have had a sub-20 performance from each of them. Jon Entine shouldn't be held responsible for how we select our Olympic team! To "tease" him because a white man won this one, very flawed race is absurd. Don Schlesinger
t-and-f: slow 800 meter final
i, like most everyone else did not get to watch the mens 800 final. what was up with those slow times? since no one seemed to have caught this "race to watch", would it be possible for someone to make a file of it and post it somewhere on the internet? i would like to see how kipketer let that race go out so slow. i keep thinking about how trinity gray would not have let that happen... dave cahill greater boston track club __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN
Subject: t-and-f: Bob Costas's view of ALEXANDER KARELIN Was anyone else appalled at how NBC shamelessly villified this man? The darth vader voice and the still pictures that made him look like a child eating ogre? In reality he was a cultured hard working athlete. Cultured and hard working doesn't fit the Drago-underdog Rocky anglethey were trying to frame. "Oh well, let's turn him into a monster" I'm convinced that NBC embodies everything that is wrong with... That was absolutely abhorrent of NBC to do, tantamount to me producing an up-close and personsal piece called "Bob Costas' Fire Island Summer Vacation". Come to think of it, with all of the cool software available today, I think I can do it. malmo!TM Another self-anointed "award-winning" pundit for the Sydney2000TM Olympics
t-and-f: Positivelova
Young Russian Svetlana Pospelova, the improving 400m runner, has been named as the athlete who has failed an out-of-comp drug test (stanazonol) from the Games. Though she had finished her individual comp, she was tested 'out of comp' as she was still to compete in the relay. She was not chosen in the final Russian squad of six for the 4x4 and had left Australia. Regards - GT - http://homepages.go.com/~oztrack/
t-and-f: 1500 comment
Netters: It was fitting indeed that the 1500 in Sydney should be somewhat a replication of what happened in Roime 40 years ago. There too, there was a team attempt which failed, as Marcel Bernard, fresh from the 5K final an hour before, set a strong pace, hoping in that case to burn out Herb Elliott, so that Michael Jazy could come on as Ngeny did tonight to win. In this case, of course, the tactics had to be different, since the Moroccan plan was to take the early pressure off Gerrouj (sp?) and still allow him to set a fast pace to burn out the Kenyans. I think it was the sslightly too fast first lap, which was followed by the slow 2nd lap that did them in---to work, it should have been 55+, followed by 57+ to reach the 800 mark in about 1:53--the 60 gave the Kenyans a chance to catch their breath, as it were. By the way, kudos to Kevin Sullivan for his fine race. Ed Grant
t-and-f: Date Change: Ted Haydon Holiday Classic (NOW Dec 16, Chicago area)
Please Note: Sara Hallman just informed me that for circumstances beyond the track staff's control, the date for the Ted Haydon Holiday Classic has been changed to SATURDAY, DECEMBER 16. The original post is below Begin Forwarded Message At 06:26 PM 9/28/00 +, you wrote: Passed along for CanAm participant Sara Hallman, the assistant coach at the Univ of Chicago. Contact her at the address below for more information. Begin Forwarded Message Date:09/26 13:57 Received:09/26 15:49 From:Sara Hallman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just passing along some info about my track club's indoor track meet in December, the Ted Haydon Holiday Classic. It will be held here at the University of Chicago on Saturday, December 16. We will have all of the major indoor track and field events. The premier event will be either a women's 5000 or 3000 depending on interest (meaning we will have one or the other, not both). The UCTC is willing to offer prize money for this women's 5000 or 3000- $500 for 1st, $200 for 2nd, $100 for third. Sara Hallman
Re: t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
1. Masback clearly offered this "solution" to buy time -- a short respite from the media jackals. (Maybe now they'll chew someone else's butt for a change -- or forget about USATF after a few days.) But your out-of-control spin control will only raise further questions, Craigo. While it is correct that Craig cannot make unilateral decisions, this suggestion does not strike me as spin control. The suggestion makes tremendous sense from a USATF standpoint and it seems likely that the organization would vote overwhelmingly to unload drug testing if an alternative seemed effective. 2. Picture this: Los Angeles decides it's tired of the flak over self-policing the LAPD (a deep source of scandal this past year). So Mayor Riordan decides to call in an independent international agency to do the job -- the United Nations! Replace Riordan with Masback, and UN with WADA and you can appreciate how utterly nonsensical this concept is. This is a difference between criminal and civil issues, as well as the fact that the police department is specifically tasked to do policing while it is really a secondary role for USATF. 3. Fear of athlete lawsuits over lost privacy and confidentiality (by disclosure of suspected drug positives) apparently is the big bugaboo with USATF's drug-testing system. But how would having WADA do the dirty work protect USATF from lawsuits? Might as well make WADA the NGB for track in the USA. It would probably protect them from some defamation suits but it wouldn't make a huge difference. What it WOULD do is reduce the bad publicity from being blamed for coverups. 4. Even if WADA does the grunt work in monitoring USA tracksters for drugs, what stops the IAAF or IOC (or this new power, the Court of Arbitration for Sports) from overturning a drug ban? Sotomayor must be laughing his head off. Has IAAF yielded its powers to WADA? Nothing - USATF is the only one who really benefits. I don't know if the IAAF would even agree to this proposal, but since they haven't agree to current USATF procedure either, I guess they really don't have to. 5. Athletes already are suspicious of USATF drug-testing regimens and reliability. How would WADA inspire any more confidence or cooperation? It wouldn't. As a matter of fact, the ONLY group in USATF that might be opposed to USATF giving up on the drug testing would be the athletes. They know that they'll get a fairer shake (actually too fair a shake) at home. But perhaps the clean athletes will realize that independent testing might be better for the sport. USATF does not have any business doing drug testing, period. Giving it to WADA may not be the answer, but if it gets the U.S. off the bad publicity hook, who cares. At least this gets the dialogue going in that direction. The drug/image problem is out of control and it's time for USATF to stop being blamed for problems that they are only partially responsible for. - Ed Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
Craig said something in his WAVA statement about being caught between conflicting direction and priorities between the IAAF and USOC. Anybody care to amplify? Who is trying to undermine who? RT
t-and-f: Auto Timing
A belated thank-you to everyone who answered my query on Automatic Timing at the Olympics. I received many responses, had my recollection confirmed and got many different but not necessarily conflicting reports. Thanks again. /Drew
Re: t-and-f: 4 x 4 splits ??
In a message dated 00-09-29 20:50:30 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been looking .. Does anyone know where to find splits on the 4x4 semis ??? Unofficial splits for the relay: Jerome Young- 45.63 Angelo Taylor- 43.82 Calvin Harrison- 43.57 Alvin Harrison- 45.76 (eased up) 2:58.78 I hope they leave Jerome Young and Pettigrew off of the relay. Let's go with who's hot. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
t-and-f: Marion Jones?...
Dear Listers, By now, everyone on the list is probably aware of the fact that MJ took bronze in the LJ. Most of the realist on this list knew that MJ's chance to take home 5 golds would take a lot of luck, despite her fitness level and extraordinary talent. Can we regard this as a failure? In MJ's eyes, maybe. Would I trade my lap top in just to be in Sydney? Hell yeah! Let alone be a world-class athlete with 3 medals in her gym bag. I think the hype surrounding MJ had everyone bent on 5 golds or nothing. Anything else would be viewed as a failure. I can see everyone at home saying "I told you so". If MJ brings home 5 medals from these Games, I think we can view her as ONE OF the greatest Olympic track field competitors of all-time. Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC
t-and-f: USA Men's 4x400 Final Line-up
It will be Calvin Harrison to Antonio Pettigrew to Alvin Harrison to MJ. The TV commentator here said that "they will have to drop the baton on every exchange to be beaten." Of course, baton was pronounced "BAT-uhn". Bob Bettwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies (703) 351-7266
Re: t-and-f: Konstadinos Kenteris?
I was merely attempting a little humor, not suggesting anything else. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Uri Goldbourt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CORA KOCH [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alan Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steven L. Brower [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 12:49 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Konstadinos Kenteris? Kederis "bore" a much faster time (20.25) , relatively speaking, the Patoulido, and his progress to 20.09 in the Olympics is not without precedent. A certain fantastic American athlete progressed from 19.66 to 19.32 seconds, not long ago, in one leap. Last year in Seville, Obikwelu and the Pole Marczin Urbas exploded in the semi finals with sub-20.00 times, remember? Other examples abound. UG __ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of CORA KOCH Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:00 PM To: Alan Shank; Steven L. Brower Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Konstadinos Kenteris? Given Kenteris and Paraskevi Patoulidou in 1992, the classic line should be changed to "Beware of Greeks bearing slow times." Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Alan Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steven L. Brower [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:05 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Konstadinos Kenteris? "Steven L. Brower" wrote: Could anyone on this list shed some light on the background of this individual. Pr's, past rankings, ect In other words, what's the ticket with this? Someone named K. Kederis had a 20.25, 20th performer in 2000 list coming in, and was not among the 10 in T F News' predictions. I don't know whether that is the same guy as Kenteris, but Greece did not enter anyone named "Kederis." Cheers, Alan Shank
t-and-f: Liquori's comments
i loved Marty L's comments with about 250m to go in the Men's 1500m. "It's going to come down to the last 100 meters.'" Oh, come on Marty. How would you have known that unless you had already seen the tape." Make it a little less contrived. Your friend. Schiefer
t-and-f: In Stadium Announcing - INCLUDES A RESULT
I want to comment on the announcing within Stadium Australia. The English speaking announcers (one British and one Australian?) are rather knowledgeable and their accents are fun to listen too. However, like all of us, they make mistakes. For those there, I am sure you will agree that "many" is a fair assessment. The biggest problem with their numerous mistakes is that they go UNCORRECTED. Marion Jones from the Bahamas? Mistake after mistake not corrected! I wonder if they just don't want to publicize their faults? They are certainly leaving incorrect data out there for the 110,000 fans in attendance. For those there on Friday night, did I hear it correctly "Barmasai has won the gold"? When Rueben's name came up on the screen as the winner I thought I heard him say "well, that will be corrected soon." If this latest anecdote is not correct, my apologies. I am not bucking for the job, just correct the errors, please!!! Bob Bettwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Director - Program Control Washington Group SRS Technologies (703) 351-7266 P.S. So much more to say, so little time...
t-and-f: RE: [racewalking] Rules question . . .
Korzeniowski finished the 50KM with a heart rate monitor clearly in view . . . Rule 144 in the IAAF handbook states: Rule 144 Assistance to Athletes 2. . . . Assistance is the conveying, by any means, of advice, information or direct help and includes pacing in races by persons not participating in the race, by runners or walkers lapped or about to be lapped or by any kind of technical device. Is a heart rate monitor not considered a technical device??? Paul! -Original Message- From: Paul V. Tucknott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:52 PM To: Racewalk; Racewalk (UK) Subject: [racewalking] Rules question . . . What do international rules say about wearing a heart rate monitor? I would have thought that it was against the rules but Korzeniowski wore one in the 50KM . . . Paul! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- eGroups Sponsor -~-~ Who invented Gatorade -- and what part did it play in winning the 1967 Orange Bowl? Find out the true facts at http://click.egroups.com/1/7603/11/_/820924/_/970285999/ -_- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To put your email message delivery on hold for a group: Send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your subscription to daily digest mode: Send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
In a message dated 9/29/00 7:40:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: USATF does not have any business doing drug testing, period. Giving it to WADA may not be the answer, but if it gets the U.S. off the bad publicity hook, who cares. At least this gets the dialogue going in that direction. The drug/image problem is out of control and it's time for USATF to stop being blamed for problems that they are only partially responsible for. Thank the mother of jesus someone has the sense to say the above. USATF, has, or never will have any business doing drug testing. I always liken it to this. Say you are a supervisor in a company. You are in charge of both management of your best employees, and the drug testing protocol. Now, imagine that your best employee tests positiveKeep in mind, that this employee is the one that makes you profitable, and makes you look good. What do you do? Announce the positive, and lose your job? Announce the positive, and lose millions of dollars for NBC? All of you higher ups out there think that I'm all about saying that everyone's on drugs. What you fail to realize is that I know who's doing drugs. I hear what's going on. Don't get caught up in the protocols that you think are blessed by the bible. I'm not here to be a negative impact in track and field. I am here, however, to be a realistic influence. I'm sick and tired of all of you old guys sitting back and saying that everyone is clean SIMPLY because they never tested positive. Don't blame me for the system failures. Oh, I left the Olympics because of an injury? You mean to tell me that someone is going to go home and miss the whole Olympic experience because of an injury.? BULLSH** Do you mean to tell me that a fan who sprained his ankle would forfeit his tickets to watch one of the greatest sporting events ever imagined.. No way. All of you guys who get mad at me, Malmo, and Craddock. Please take a trip to the reality well. You can believe that your sport is clean, but we know better. Quit making us the bad guys, and listen for one god damned minute. Schiefer
Re: t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
In a message dated 9/29/00 7:40:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a difference between criminal and civil issues, as well as the fact that the police department is specifically tasked to do policing while it is really a secondary role for USATF. Which might explain why it doesn't get done at all. Schiefer
Re: t-and-f: USA Men's 4x400 Final Line-up
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 00:01:29 -0400, you wrote: It will be Calvin Harrison to Antonio Pettigrew to Alvin Harrison to MJ. The TV commentator here said that "they will have to drop the baton on every exchange to be beaten." Of course, baton was pronounced "BAT-uhn". As in Baton Rouge... RT
Re: t-and-f: Masback calls out the Black Helicopters
This is a difference between criminal and civil issues, as well as the fact that the police department is specifically tasked to do policing while it is really a secondary role for USATF. Which might explain why it doesn't get done at all. Hey, you guys have hit on the solution, and didn't even know it... Masback was right to propose a handoff of responsibilities (or a trade)... Let USATF take over law inforcement for the City of Los Angeles, and unleash the LAPD on America's athletic doping cheats I can just see Friday and Gannon knocking on somebody's door for a sample: Friday: (quick flash of badge) Doping Police! Open Up! Drug cheat inside the house: I haven't even opened the door- how am I supposed to see a badge you flash before I even open the door? How do I know you're who you say you are? Friday: Don't get smart with me! You young smart-alecks are all alike- think you know everything. Now open that door before we bash it in! Drug cheat: (opening door) It's 3 in the mornin'- what in the world you guys want? Friday: We are authorized by Section 3.0204.4029.9f subsection J of the LAPD WADA Doping Enforcement Regulations to collect a valid urinary sample in accordance with international doping standard 507.3.3492 paragraph c. Any problem with that mister? Drug cheat: I don't understand all that mumbo-jumbo. What is it you guys really want? Friday: (in staccato voice) Urine. Pee. Piss. Can the street talk. Are you gonna comply or do we have to haul you in? Drug cheat: uhh. Friday: Gannon, the cup. Gannon: (pulls a sample collection cup out of his suit coat): now son, this won't take long, just comply and give us the sample, and we'll be done with this. Drug cheat: (takes cup to bathroom) alright. Friday: look out Gannon, he's got a balloon up his!!! Gannon: I got 'em covered, Joe! Gannon: all right, son, spread-em- we're taking you in for violation of section R. Drug cheat: section R? what's that? Friday: (slapping the 'cuffs on the cheat) Enough of your lip, punk! All upright citizens know that section R is Section 4.2.3879.210938 subsection "R" of the international doping behaviour standard as appended by the 1992 WADA/IOC/IAAF/Greenpeace/SavetheWhales/ NukeTheButterflies Standards Convention .paragraph 32c...you punks are all alike Drug cheat: Oh yeh, how dumb of me to forget... [later] Friday: Scratch one more scum from America's sports fields...all right Gannon, who's next on the list? Gannon: Let's see (looking at a printed list)... well Joe, looks like a fellow named Ryun... ...James Ryun...onetime resident of Kansas, later seen in the Santa Barbara area, latest sighting in the D.C. area... Friday: Sounds like a real tough punk...let's go!... RT
