Re: [Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[dgitto]

Io insisto sulle due scuole rese con due nodi separati. Ognuna col suo nome,
livello isced, contatti, codice meccanografico, operatore pubblico o
privato.
Trovi tutti dati su scuola in chiaro.  
http://cercalatuascuola.istruzione.it/cercalatuascuola/

Daniele



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Re: [Talk-it] import di tutti gli edifici del Canada

[Aury88]

Andrea Musuruane wrote
> Permettimi di dissentire.
> 
> E' da inizio gennaio che, insieme ad altri volontari, stiamo importando
> gli
> edifici della Provincia di Biella.

Ti chiedo scusa, la mia non era assolutamente una critica nei tuoi riguardi
o nei riguardi di altri che hanno effettuato import da database ufficiali. È
chiaro esistano esempi di eccellenza anche da noi, quello che intendevo era
che purtroppo le istituzioni  Italiane sono generalmente ancora molto restie
a liberare i dati e quei casi che si verificano sono spesso frutto di
proposte lungimiranti di pochi all'interno di realtà locali, non scelte
dall'alto che si applicherebbero in maniera più estesa ed omogenea a tutto
il territorio italiano. Per colleghi dei canadesi intendevo proprio questo e
cioè chi guida istituzioni "centrali" (come mi sembra di capire sia nel caso
specifico con il coinvolgimento del governo federale canadese) non certo la
PA locali.



> Dopo più di 10 mesi, credo di aver maturato una certa esperienza
> sull'edificato disegnato in OSM ricalcato da foto satellitari. La maggior
> parte delle volte l'edificio è ricalcato malamente: non coincide con la
> forma del tetto e non è posizionato alla base dello stesso, non è stata
> usata la funzione di ortogonalizzazione della way, ecc. Sovente la
> situazione è anche peggiore, con forme molto approssimate (e sto usando un
> eufemismo).
> 
> Ma anche i mapper più pignoli (per la verità pochissimi) spesso hanno
> delle
> difficoltà: è  difficile ricalcare gli edifici dalle ortofoto, specie dove
> questi sono molto ravvicinati (pensate, ad esempio, ai paesi di montagna)
> e
> con piccoli vicoli che li separano. In questo caso, senza altri supporti,
> si rischia di non riuscire a mappare (anche il GPS non prende bene in
> queste condizioni).
> 
> Gli open data degli edifici (almeno quelli della Provincia di Biella)
> hanno
> il grosso vantaggio di provenire dal catasto e quindi sono pressoché
> perfetti.
> 
> Inoltre, non dimentichiamoci che ricalcare ogni singolo edificio, come
> ricordava un mapper piemontese poco tempo fa, "è sicuramente possibile ma
> certo non particolarmente efficiente". E, aggiungo io, specie quando
> qualcun altro l'ha già fatto molto meglio di come noi potremo mai fare e
> lo
> mette a disposizione con una licenza che ne consente il riuso in OSM.

tutto vero, ma io non parlavo di qualità del dato ma di inclusività del
progetto.
un dato inserito male da un utente può essere migliorato dallo stesso o da
un altro. fa parte del processo inclusivo di OSM. un dato importato
significa che quel dato è stato importato da un utente esperto e li rimane
fino al successivo import fatto da un altro utente esperto. l'utente
mediobasso che vede un area già ben mappata non si mette a cercare eventuali
edifici mancanti ne tanto meno si mette a tenere aggiornata la situazione di
una zona su cui non ha avuto modo di mettere mano neanche sugli elementi
basici che compongono una mappa...
parlo per me ma sospetto non essere l'unico: se avessi trovato Verderio già
mappato, con strade ed edifici, difficilmente mi sarei messo a mappare per
OSM (specialmente non avrei cominciato con l'inserire elementi più
particolareggiati/meno visibili) e il fatto di aver aggiunto io parte delle
cose li presenti mi spinge a tenerla continuamente aggiornata e ad
aggiungere sempre più dettagli. allo stato attuale se a verderio tutti gli
edifici venissero cancellati per essere sostituiti da elementi importati e
meglio mappati io ora ne sarei felicissimo, la stessa cosa fosse successa 5
anni fa, ad inizio mappatura, avrebbe significato non farmi interessare al
processo di mappatura.
se la mappa di diventa solo un unione di database in aree che non sono già
coperte da una comunità locale imho si compromette la possibilità che tali
comunità si sviluppino. e si compromette la possibilità di avere una mappa
con più dati di quelli presenti nei database e più aggiornata...e si espone
anche l'area agli atti di vandalismo visto che la presenza di una comunità,
intervenendo subito, rende meno efficaci queste azioni





-
Ciao,
Aury
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Yuri Astrakhan]

The tool has been thoroughly reworked, thanks to many good suggestions.
Please keep discussion to constructive suggestions and ideas - they help us
all move forward and reach agreement.

What's new:
* Tool has a new name: Sophox
* Added "reject" vote button
* Tasks can now offer multiple choices selection (thanks Tobias for the
idea)
* Added voting - experimental tasks require two users agreement to change DB
* Users can "unvote" their own votes
* Multiple changes per changeset
* All votes are stored in the same RDF db, so the task can query it too.
* Added Mapbox satellite imagery
* Made it simple to revert Sophox changes: changesets now contain "task_id"
to track task-related edits.
* Added imagery tag to changeset
* Added domain name & https cert
* Many UI improvements, e.g. login / logoff / unread messages / icons
* Improve query parameter naming

Requirement:  Modern browser (tested on the latest Firefox and Chrome)
Full documentation:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox

Multiple choice example: changing from amenity=education to a more specific
one, e.g. amenity=school or university.
* http://tinyurl.com/y9tobxm8
​
Single choice example:  removing natural=water from the swimming pools
(should be checked with the satellite view)
* http://tinyurl.com/y84tlqzt

See more examples (single and multi-choice) here:
* https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_fixes

== Next steps ==
* address/fix any uncovered issues and concerns
* clean up wiki pages with tasks
* figure out the process when a task is OK to use without voting (direct
save, without the two person agreement)

== Moonshot goal ==
Mobile site/app that would bring up yes/no and multiple choice questions
from multiple tasks for the user's location. While I would love to do this,
lets discuss it in a separate thread if desired, as it is too far off at
this point.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Safwat Halaby]

I'm reviewing the fixes and adding changeset comments. The fixes are
mostly good. It seems Hannah is occasionally adding area=yes on
accident.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Safwat Halaby]

Hi, and thank you for the cleanup efforts!

Please note that in some cases, people added buildings on top of
buildings. Depending on your QA software, this can be hard to spot
because it does not show up in diffs.

> Have you already corrected or
> reverted some of the errors that were noted?

I reverted two serious cases:

mdavenport1985(uid 6744070) was adding nonsense:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53501083
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53429550

The Data Working group stepped in to stop him:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mdavenport1985/blocks

A_N_D_R_E_W(uid 6876174) was intentionally vandalizing:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53347778

I also reverted one non serious case of buildings on top of buildings:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53347357

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Re: [Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017

[Marián Kyral]

Neboj,
já to ještě určitě připomenu.

Marián

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Mikoláš Štrajt 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 6. 11. 2017 10:33:47
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017
"Zapsal jsem se do tabulky.

Tak a teď na to ještě nezapomenout.

--
Severák
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Marián Kyral 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 6. 11. 2017 10:06:23
Předmět: [Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017
"Ahoj,
poslední letošní kvartální pivo se bude konat přesně za měsíc, ve středu
6.12.

Aktualizoval jsem wiki stránku https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Kvart%
C3%A1ln%C3%AD_pivo

Svou účast prosím potvrďte v google doc tabulce: https://docs.google.com/
spreadsheets/d/12zGtW414R9se_g_87FdmpHj2B6xO1gf5mG94avTmFb4/edit#gid=
150217035

Tentokrát se budu snažit, abych byl v Ostravě, tak se to snad po delší době
opět podaří.

Marián
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[OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Donna Baranski-Walker]

Hi All,
Ray, Hannah, Ryan and I have been correcting and validating for the last
few hours to bring things back to good.  Have you already corrected or
reverted some of the errors that were noted?

We noticed and corrected the following errors:
- lines used as area markers
- regions were not tagged with anything (just areas, instead of buildings)
- buildings were missing
- random 'other' points

Please give us your feedback on what we did tonight.

We were impressed by some of the advanced mapping that was done before us.

What we learned from this:
-  Hold closed mapathons for the time being
-  Be sure to have a sign-up sheet that includes everyone OSM id name
-  Provide better training with a hands-on example
-  Give newcomers a standard first assignment and check it with them before
giving them a real assignment
- Just after the mapathon, have all the organizers head over to an
organizer's house or a coffeehouse to spend an hour or two working together
to verify
- We thought we asked for OSM expert mappers to join us but no one
responded.  Ryan sent a request message to talk...@openstreetmap.org, and
h...@openstreetmap.org  -  Is more notice needed?

Looking forward to your replies.

Sincerely,
Donna and our Mapathon Team

P.S.  a question:
  #3757 Jabal al Baba - there's a marker stating "demolition orders"... is
there a way to add notes?


-- Forwarded message --
From: Donna Baranski-Walker 
Date: Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OpenStreetMap] Problem mapping in your HOT Palestine projects
To: bgirardot 
Cc: Ryan Gee , Mikel Maron ,
Ray Rischpater , Hannah Pan 


Hi Blake,

I am Ryan's supervisor at Rebuilding Alliance and I asked him to let me
reply since he was unable to join us for our mapathon on Oct. 28th. That
said, I've been out with a nasty cough for the past few days.  Please
pardon my delay in getting back to you.  I've read through many of the
messages - I signed up for OSM-Talk, but I'm not quite sure how to join the
conversation.

I can answer some questions, and I have other questions too.  I am copying
our recent intern, Hannah, who organized the Mapathon.  Hannah and I are
beginners and we've participated in (and I organized) Mapping Palestine
mapathons before, including one at RightsCon.  A friend and experienced
mapper, Ray Rischpater, joined us on Saturday and I'm copying Ray on this
message too.

Here's what we did:

1.  We held a mapathon on Oct. 28th and there were 40 or more attending.
Most were beginners - many were high school students, one was a 6th grader
(he was really good at this), one was in her 80's.  Some watched the 'how
to map on OSM' video - and many did not.   For future mapathons we will
need to do a much better job of instructing the participants on how to map.

2.  On OSM Talk, someone noted,

There also seems to be a pattern of people removing and readding
buildings or adding buildings on top of buildings. (Why are they doing
that? Perhaps they have an assignment of a minimum additions and it's a
way to cheaply meet some quota?)

I think this has to do with our custom data set.  Our partners in
Palestine are the Geospatial mapping team at the Ministry of Local
Governments.
They worked with Mikel at Mapbox to import a high res. custom data set
but the custom set if offset from the Bing map.
We instructed our mapathon mappers to correct the mapping done to date
by moving the boxes into place -- but if you are looking at the
outcome on
the standard Bing map, it will look offset once again, and you will
wonder why people are re-adding buildings.

Ryan has an important observation about this and a suggestion for
Mikel and the GeoMoLG team that could remedy this.
I sent that forward in a separate message.

3.  I want to bring our marathon organizing team together this weekend to
verify and make corrections.  Hannah, Ryan, and Ray might we meet on
Saturday or on Sunday late afternoon?

4.  The beginners on Rebuilding Alliance's team are going to be learning a
lot more about OSM now - and I want to invite more people to join
Rebuilding Alliance's mapathon team so that future US Mapping Palestine
mapathons are well-supported and seamless.

5.  We’re working with the GeoMoLG team to get ready for OSM Mapathons in
Palestine with the villagers participating.  If all goes well, our next US
Mapathons will be more accurate and the villagers can do verification and
naming, as well as mapping themselves.  Before we begin, we are seeking OSM
experts in Palestine who can meet with the GeoMoLG team and attend the
mapathons too.  A prof at Birzeit University has expressed interest -
hoping to be in touch with him soon.

6.  Now for my questions:  are you seeing any evidence of intentional
spamming?  Some of the high school students may have attended just for
community service points and were not 

[OSM-talk] Hillshading on OSM maps

[Daniel Koć]

I was thinking about hillshading on the osm-carto as part of the low 
zoom improvement process. The idea was quickly rejected:


https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2931

but I wanted to look deeper and ask about your experiences with 
hillshading on the maps using OSM data (like for example cycling layer 
on OSM.org):


1. What kind of hillshading data is used and what is the quality on low, 
middle and high zoom levels (SRTM-based NaturalEarth maybe - general or 
manually edited)?


2. Did you find any problems with hillshading (like peak or saddle being 
placed differently than shading suggests)?


3. What do you think about using OSM hillshading "fork" which could be 
editable somehow to follow OSM data (of course it doesn't belong to OSM 
database, since it's a raster data, not a vector one)?



--
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]


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[talk-latam] Programa del State of the Map LatAm 2017

[Omar Vega Ramos]

Hola a todos

El programa del State of the Map LatAm 2017 ya se encuentra disponible
en el sitio web del evento.[0]

La programación incluye charlas, paneles, talleres y mapatones acerca de
diversos ejes temáticos relacionados con OpenStreetMap.

State of the Map LatAm 2017, se llevará a cabo en Lima, Perú, del 29 de
noviembre al 2 de diciembre del 2017.

Saludos

[0] http://state.osmlatam.org/#program

-- 
Omar Vega Ramos
 Coordinador OpenStreetMap Perú

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[Talk-pe] Programa del State of the Map LatAm 2017

[Omar Vega Ramos]

Hola a todos

El programa del State of the Map LatAm 2017 ya se encuentra disponible
en el sitio web del evento.[0]

La programación incluye charlas, paneles, talleres y mapatones acerca de
diversos ejes temáticos relacionados con OpenStreetMap.

State of the Map LatAm 2017, se llevará a cabo en Lima, Perú, del 29 de
noviembre al 2 de diciembre del 2017.

Saludos

[0] http://state.osmlatam.org/#program

-- 
Omar Vega Ramos
 Coordinador OpenStreetMap Perú

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Clash between Logainm and GNS name spelling

[Dave Corley]

In cases like this the best option is to use name=* and alt_name=*

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names

On 6 Nov 2017 19:14, "Colm Moore"  wrote:

Hi,


It seems the English-language spelling of the village name is different to
the ED name (which matches GNS). What does one do?


http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52263371

https://www.logainm.ie/en/1374346

https://www.logainm.ie/en/1167099


Thank you


Colm



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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Markus]

Am 06.11.2017 um 22:13 schrieb Richard:

> vielleicht sollte es im Gegenteil mehr Karten geben die auch (evtl 
> konfigurierbar)
> old_name u.Ä. anzeigen? Dann wären historisch interessierte mapper nicht 
> ermutigt
> historische aber nicht mehr geläufige Namen als "name:XX" einzutragen.

:-)

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-it] import di tutti gli edifici del Canada

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-06 19:51 GMT+01:00 Andrea Musuruane :
>
> Permettimi di dissentire.
>
> E' da inizio gennaio che, insieme ad altri volontari, stiamo importando gli
> edifici della Provincia di Biella.
>
> Dopo più di 10 mesi, credo di aver maturato una certa esperienza
> sull'edificato disegnato in OSM ricalcato da foto satellitari. La maggior
> parte delle volte l'edificio è ricalcato malamente: non coincide con la
> forma del tetto e non è posizionato alla base dello stesso, non è stata
> usata la funzione di ortogonalizzazione della way, ecc. Sovente la
> situazione è anche peggiore, con forme molto approssimate (e sto usando un
> eufemismo).
>

Grazie Andrea per il tuo pensiero che sottoscrivo e condivido pienamente.
Anche io ho una certa esperienza avendo operato personalmente parte
dell'import fabbricati nell'area sud della Puglia ed ho riscontrato
esattamente quello che indichi.
La cosa più grave è che, quasi giornalmente, nuovi e vecchi mappatori
modificano o spostano le sagome dei fabbricati importati, travisandole
in base alle foto Bing, che tra l'altro sono sfasate di parecchi
metri.
Devo confessare che è forse più difficile mantenere le sagome
importate, rispetto all'esecuzione dell'import stesso.

>
> Ma anche i mapper più pignoli (per la verità pochissimi) spesso hanno delle
> difficoltà: è  difficile ricalcare gli edifici dalle ortofoto, specie dove
> questi sono molto ravvicinati (pensate, ad esempio, ai paesi di montagna) e
> con piccoli vicoli che li separano. In questo caso, senza altri supporti, si
> rischia di non riuscire a mappare (anche il GPS non prende bene in queste
> condizioni).
>
> Gli open data degli edifici (almeno quelli della Provincia di Biella) hanno
> il grosso vantaggio di provenire dal catasto e quindi sono pressoché
> perfetti.
>

Quanto hai ragione! E' proprio per i motivi che indichi che mi sono
adoperato per l'import in Puglia, infatti sostengo da sempre che
quello dei fabbricati è un "layer" necessario per la buona leggibilità
della mappa, utile anche per ogni altro tipo di mappatura on site.
Purtroppo noto che alla maggior parte dei mappatori di OSM piace molto
sedersi al computer e disegnare poligoni dalle foto Bing, ma poco
andare in campo a rilevare informazioni utili, quali ad esempio POI o
civici o nomi strade.
Capisco che sia più impegnativo e forse le app richiedono un po' di
pratica, ma ritengo che sia l'aspetto più importante.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des hauteurs de bâtiments sur Montpellier

[Vincent Frison]

Je confirme que tout a l'air bon maintenant.

Le nombre final de bâtiments mis à jour est 55 605.
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Re: [Talk-it] Cammini d'Italia

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Insomma, mi pare un portalone-fuffa (pagato chissà quanto) che non fa altro
che catalogare per ogni cammino il "sito di riferimento"; solo qui,
scavando un po', troviamo la pappa (gpx)

Il 06/nov/2017 21:35, "Stefano Fabi"  ha scritto:

> Leggo molto sui social di una iniziativa del Ministero delle Attività
> Culturali e del turismo per un censimento dei Cammini Italiani.
> Essendo interessato al turismo lento ho guardato il sito e subito ho
> cliccato su "vai alla mappa dei Cammini".
> Mi sarei aspettato di vedere openstreetmap sullo sfondo, invece la "mappa"
> non ė tale, solo schemi semplificati dei percorsi.
> Neppure sono disponibili tracce GPS.
> Pensavo che potrebbe essere una opportunità sottoporre una proposta per
> far diventare openstreetmap un contenitore delle mappe per questi percorsi.
> Solo openstreetmap ha le potenzialitá per definire percorsi ibridi,
> stradali e non.
>
> Secondo voi c'è una possibilità o vedete una opportunità nel sottoporre al
> ministero questa idea?
> Vi indico il link in questione.
> Ciao a tutti.
> Stefano
>
> http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/cammini/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cherche photos pour illustrer osm.fr

[Stéphane Péneau]

Hello Florian,

En voici quelques-unes, on ne sait jamais
https://nas.stemani.fr:5001/sharing/CruuvD4hl
password : carto2017

l'accès peut parfois être coupé la nuit.

A+

Stf


Le 02/11/2017 à 19:51, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

Hello,
Nous avions parlé en début d'année d'une refonte du site internet 
openstreetmap.fr 
Je m'y repenche en ce moment, et je cherche des photos pour illustrer 
les pages.


Si vous en avez de très belles je suis preneur !

Ce qui m'intéresse :
-des photos de groupe / événements
-des photos de rencontre avec les collectivités / entreprises / aux 
acteurs
-des contributeurs sur le terrain (avec smartphone / papier / autre, à 
pied, à vélo, à cheval ! ...)

-des contributeurs qui mappent depuis leur ordi

Vous l'avez compris, je cherche de l'humain et des photos de qualité.
Merci par avance pour votre aide

--

*Florian Lainez*

@overflorian 


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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Richard]

On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 09:03:02PM +0100, buedner wrote:
> 
> Manche Orte haben nun mal außer dem offiziellen Namen auch Namen in anderen
> Sprachen. Zum Beispiel Zittau:
> 
> name:cs = Žitava
> name:pl = Żytawa
> name:hsb = Žitawa
> 
> Alle drei Formen waren niemals amtliche Ortsnamen, trotzdem gibt es sie, sie
> sind völlig korrekt mit name:xx getaggt und ich hätte es gern, wenn das auch
> so bliebe.

Bei Zittau sehe ich kein Problem, alle gennanten Formen scheinen recht geläufig
zu sein.

> Das gleiche gilt auch für deutsche Ortsnamen in Polen und Böhmen, die ja
> nicht aufgehört haben zu existieren, weil der polnische oder tschechische
> Name der offizielle ist.

sofern diese Namen weiterhin verwendet werden (Prag, Eger, Karlsbad, Brünn) 
genau
wie oben. Sofern es "tote" Namen sind gehören sie als old_name eingetragen.

> Wer das nicht mag, kann die wenigen Karten, die name:de oder auch name:hsb
> auswerten, einfach meiden.

vielleicht sollte es im Gegenteil mehr Karten geben die auch (evtl 
konfigurierbar)
old_name u.Ä. anzeigen? Dann wären historisch interessierte mapper nicht 
ermutigt
historische aber nicht mehr geläufige Namen als "name:XX" einzutragen.

Richard



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Re: [Talk-it] Cammini d'Italia

[carlo folini]

Ho fatto un giro sul sito dell'Alto Adige... la mappa è marcata G**gle, ma
sotto mi sembra uno snapshot un po' datato di OSM...
Mi sbaglio?

Ammapalitalia... ho guardato la mia Valtellina... un'unico percorso con una
linea dritta che congiunge due località (senza seguire alcuna way di
OSM)... spero che il resto sia meglio...


Mail
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Il giorno 6 novembre 2017 21:57, Matteo Fortini 
ha scritto:

> Grazie per averlo segnalato anche qui. Ne ho parlato su FB qui
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10211816165253843=
> 1061113341
>
> Riporto il testo per comodità
>
> Pensiamo a un bellissimo portale di cammini d'Italia http://www.turismo.
> beniculturali.it/home-cammini-ditalia/
> e facciamo una vetrina patinata senza possibilità, non so, di scaricare le
> tracce GPX o una miniguida (si parla di camminarci, alla fine, su questi
> sentieri, non di sfogliarli soltanto...), per non parlare di un po' di dati
> aperti.
> Se ci fossimo guardati 5 minuti intorno, avremmo visto che altre
> amministrazioni avevano perfezionato Sentres https://www.sentres.com/it/
> alto-adige, o la società civile aveva proposto
> http://www.ammappalitalia.it/
>
> Fine del post "scunza mnestra".
>
> Alla fine, l'Italia che viene fuori è proprio bellissima, bisogna
> camminarla.
>
> Il lun 6 nov 2017, 21:35 Stefano Fabi  ha scritto:
>
>> Leggo molto sui social di una iniziativa del Ministero delle Attività
>> Culturali e del turismo per un censimento dei Cammini Italiani.
>> Essendo interessato al turismo lento ho guardato il sito e subito ho
>> cliccato su "vai alla mappa dei Cammini".
>> Mi sarei aspettato di vedere openstreetmap sullo sfondo, invece la
>> "mappa" non ė tale, solo schemi semplificati dei percorsi.
>> Neppure sono disponibili tracce GPS.
>> Pensavo che potrebbe essere una opportunità sottoporre una proposta per
>> far diventare openstreetmap un contenitore delle mappe per questi percorsi.
>> Solo openstreetmap ha le potenzialitá per definire percorsi ibridi,
>> stradali e non.
>>
>> Secondo voi c'è una possibilità o vedete una opportunità nel sottoporre
>> al ministero questa idea?
>> Vi indico il link in questione.
>> Ciao a tutti.
>> Stefano
>>
>> http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/cammini/
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
>
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>


-- 
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mailto:carlo.fol...@gmail.com
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Re: [Talk-it] Cammini d'Italia

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Nelle pagine dei tre cammini che ho sfogliato c'è quello che sembra un link
(inattivo) ad un gpx e kml... Boh!

Il 06/nov/2017 21:35, "Stefano Fabi"  ha scritto:

> Leggo molto sui social di una iniziativa del Ministero delle Attività
> Culturali e del turismo per un censimento dei Cammini Italiani.
> Essendo interessato al turismo lento ho guardato il sito e subito ho
> cliccato su "vai alla mappa dei Cammini".
> Mi sarei aspettato di vedere openstreetmap sullo sfondo, invece la "mappa"
> non ė tale, solo schemi semplificati dei percorsi.
> Neppure sono disponibili tracce GPS.
> Pensavo che potrebbe essere una opportunità sottoporre una proposta per
> far diventare openstreetmap un contenitore delle mappe per questi percorsi.
> Solo openstreetmap ha le potenzialitá per definire percorsi ibridi,
> stradali e non.
>
> Secondo voi c'è una possibilità o vedete una opportunità nel sottoporre al
> ministero questa idea?
> Vi indico il link in questione.
> Ciao a tutti.
> Stefano
>
> http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/cammini/
>
> ___
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> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[oe]

Am 06.11.2017 um 21:03 schrieb buedner:


Manche Orte haben nun mal außer dem offiziellen Namen auch Namen in 
anderen Sprachen. Zum Beispiel Zittau:


name:cs = Žitava
name:pl = Żytawa
name:hsb = Žitawa

Alle drei Formen waren niemals amtliche Ortsnamen, trotzdem gibt es 
sie, sie sind völlig korrekt mit name:xx getaggt und ich hätte es 
gern, wenn das auch so bliebe.
Das gleiche gilt auch für deutsche Ortsnamen in Polen und Böhmen, die 
ja nicht aufgehört haben zu existieren, weil der polnische oder 
tschechische Name der offizielle ist.


Wer das nicht mag, kann die wenigen Karten, die name:de oder auch 
name:hsb auswerten, einfach meiden.


Gruß Jens


+1

Auch für Namen in Rumänien, Banat, Siebenbürgen, Dobrudscha oder auch 
Ukraine, Bessarabien. Die Liste lässt sich fortsetzen: Serbien, 
Slowenien, ...
Viele Orte in der Dobrudscha sind sogar deutsch Gründungen und mussten 
1940 geräumt werden. Habne dann rumänische Namen bekommen oder türkische 
behalten.


Heinz

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Re: [Talk-it] Cammini d'Italia

[Matteo Fortini]

Grazie per averlo segnalato anche qui. Ne ho parlato su FB qui
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10211816165253843=1061113341

Riporto il testo per comodità

Pensiamo a un bellissimo portale di cammini d'Italia
http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/home-cammini-ditalia/
e facciamo una vetrina patinata senza possibilità, non so, di scaricare le
tracce GPX o una miniguida (si parla di camminarci, alla fine, su questi
sentieri, non di sfogliarli soltanto...), per non parlare di un po' di dati
aperti.
Se ci fossimo guardati 5 minuti intorno, avremmo visto che altre
amministrazioni avevano perfezionato Sentres
https://www.sentres.com/it/alto-adige, o la società civile aveva proposto
http://www.ammappalitalia.it/

Fine del post "scunza mnestra".

Alla fine, l'Italia che viene fuori è proprio bellissima, bisogna
camminarla.

Il lun 6 nov 2017, 21:35 Stefano Fabi  ha scritto:

> Leggo molto sui social di una iniziativa del Ministero delle Attività
> Culturali e del turismo per un censimento dei Cammini Italiani.
> Essendo interessato al turismo lento ho guardato il sito e subito ho
> cliccato su "vai alla mappa dei Cammini".
> Mi sarei aspettato di vedere openstreetmap sullo sfondo, invece la "mappa"
> non ė tale, solo schemi semplificati dei percorsi.
> Neppure sono disponibili tracce GPS.
> Pensavo che potrebbe essere una opportunità sottoporre una proposta per
> far diventare openstreetmap un contenitore delle mappe per questi percorsi.
> Solo openstreetmap ha le potenzialitá per definire percorsi ibridi,
> stradali e non.
>
> Secondo voi c'è una possibilità o vedete una opportunità nel sottoporre al
> ministero questa idea?
> Vi indico il link in questione.
> Ciao a tutti.
> Stefano
>
> http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/cammini/
> ___
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> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
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>
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Re: [Talk-cz] multipolygony a cesty v lese

[Marián Kyral]

Dne 6.11.2017 v 18:52 majka napsal(a):
> Pro Mariána:
>
> Seznam Tvých komentářů lze dohledat přes tohle
>  (nad tím kalendářem),
> případně Tvoje rovnou
> .
>
> Majka
>
>

Skvělé. Díky. Akorát to má drobný problém s mým tmavým stylem. Ale to se
pořeší.

Marián
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Re: [Talk-cz] multipolygony a cesty v lese

[Marián Kyral]

Dne 6.11.2017 v 19:16 Miroslav Suchý napsal(a):
> Dne 6.11.2017 v 18:52 majka napsal(a):
>> Nemáme někde na wiki místo pro "Tipy a triky"?
> Začni si psát deníček:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary

To už asi bude lepší zůstat u té wiki. Buď nějakou obecnou stránku
vytvoř, nebo si udělej osobní:

Stačí si zobrazit vlastní profil a pak do url přidat "/název_podstránky"
a zvolit možnost stránku vytvořit.
Pak to může vypadat třeba takto:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mkyral/tips

Marián


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[Talk-it] Cammini d'Italia

[Stefano Fabi]

Leggo molto sui social di una iniziativa del Ministero delle Attività
Culturali e del turismo per un censimento dei Cammini Italiani.
Essendo interessato al turismo lento ho guardato il sito e subito ho
cliccato su "vai alla mappa dei Cammini".
Mi sarei aspettato di vedere openstreetmap sullo sfondo, invece la "mappa"
non ė tale, solo schemi semplificati dei percorsi.
Neppure sono disponibili tracce GPS.
Pensavo che potrebbe essere una opportunità sottoporre una proposta per far
diventare openstreetmap un contenitore delle mappe per questi percorsi.
Solo openstreetmap ha le potenzialitá per definire percorsi ibridi,
stradali e non.

Secondo voi c'è una possibilità o vedete una opportunità nel sottoporre al
ministero questa idea?
Vi indico il link in questione.
Ciao a tutti.
Stefano

http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/cammini/
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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[angelo mornata]

Grazie Lorenzo, e scusatemi Tutti per la mia incompetenza.


Angelo



Da: Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi 
Inviato: lunedì 6 novembre 2017 20:00
A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

Il giorno lun, 06/11/2017 alle 11.39 +, angelo mornata ha scritto:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso Nero-Rifugio 
Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
(‪7607193‬)
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.


>
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (‪7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license. Hosting is supported by UCL, Bytemark Hosting and 
Imperial ...


> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and
> free to use under an open license.
>
> Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni
> sono state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio
> completare/aggiungere alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della
> conferma?
>
> Grazie
> Angelo
>

"Incompleto" significa soltanto che quel membro non è presente nella
porzione di mappa che hai scaricato. Per scaricare tutti i membri c'è
la funzione apposita nell'editor delle relazioni, in basso a sinistra.


Lorenzo

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[buedner]

Manche Orte haben nun mal außer dem offiziellen Namen auch Namen in 
anderen Sprachen. Zum Beispiel Zittau:


name:cs = Žitava
name:pl = Żytawa
name:hsb = Žitawa

Alle drei Formen waren niemals amtliche Ortsnamen, trotzdem gibt es sie, 
sie sind völlig korrekt mit name:xx getaggt und ich hätte es gern, wenn 
das auch so bliebe.
Das gleiche gilt auch für deutsche Ortsnamen in Polen und Böhmen, die ja 
nicht aufgehört haben zu existieren, weil der polnische oder 
tschechische Name der offizielle ist.


Wer das nicht mag, kann die wenigen Karten, die name:de oder auch 
name:hsb auswerten, einfach meiden.


Gruß Jens

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[OSM-talk-ie] Clash between Logainm and GNS name spelling

[Colm Moore]

Hi,


It seems the English-language spelling of the village name is different to the 
ED name (which matches GNS). What does one do?


http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52263371

https://www.logainm.ie/en/1374346

https://www.logainm.ie/en/1167099


Thank you


Colm


---
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world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Proposed Import of West Mids VMS Locations

[Brian Prangle]

I've examined the data againnst aerial imagery and the Highways England
positional data for VMS signs is so poor it really precludes an import
which is sad. Signs are up to  an estimated 10m away from their gantries
and signs on the same gantry don't even line up. The Birmingham data might
be better but it's difficult to check with aerial imagery as most of them
aren't gantry-borne. I'm happy to chip away at this manually, unless anyine
feels we can still go ahead with an import and then adjust the nodes
manually- it will be a hard sell outside our group.

My proposed tagging is

traffic_sign=variable_message

variable_message_model =  e.g. 4x13 VMS MS5

variable_message_type = matrix

variable_message_type = graphic

variable_message_type  = graphic;matrix

variable_message_information = parking or maybe
variable_message=parking_information

variable_message_information = traffic or maybe
variable_message=traffic_information

traffic_sign:location = overhead

traffic_sign:location= roadside


For ways that are not oneway: ( wrt to direction the OSM way is drawn )

traffic_sign:forward = variable_message

traffic_sign:backward= varable_message


(Tagging not yet gone through an approval process)


Regards


Brian

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> There seems to be a few types of data in there:- BCC, Highways England and
> Car Parking signs. I'm not sure if these *need* treating separately but it
> may be worth doing so anyway. The car parks should be small enough to start
> with and will enable us to get a good grip of the data.
>
> For short description the bits that seems useful is the sign size (e.g.
> 3x18) which I assume is rows and characters. In "M6/6054A" the M6 is
> obviously the road and I believe the "A" indicates which side of the road
> it is on (see: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:carriageway_ref ).
> Do you know what the "6054" means? Wait... found it! It looks like it is
> the asset reference for the structure that the sign is attached to. See for
> example:
>
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4905635,-1.7319734,3a,15y,
> 288.18h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgldMiJ0rpLi97FRlvR32CQ!
> 2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
> If all the motorway or trunk ones are like this then may put the
> "M6/6054A" bit in a tag such as gantry_ref=.
>
> Do we know what "SPICE" means? I seem to recall hearing it before but
> cannot remember. What about "MS3"/"MS4"?
>
> Finally, if we add these, do they get mapped to the side of the road or as
> a node on the road? Gut feeling is that it as a node so that it is more
> useful for data users.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rob*
>
> On 5 November 2017 at 16:15, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I'd like to open a discussion here first before opening it to talkgb and
>> talkimport
>>
>> The raw data can be found here
>> 
>>
>> It covers the West Midlands and parts of the M1 and M69 also
>>
>> Licence is OGL
>>
>> I've edited the data to give lat/lons and I've added operator tags based
>> on Motorway/Trunk being Highways England and everything else BCC.
>> I've put a copy on Dropbox
>> 
>> so you can review the data.
>> I'd welcome feedback on what to tag the Short Description column
>>
>>
>> Issues:
>>
>> VMS tagging is a mess so I'll no doubt have to wade through a tagging
>> proposal. The most sensible approach was discussed here
>> 
>> I've not checked against against existing OSM data which I suspect is
>> patchy and given the tagging mess difficult to do a taginfo or ovepass query
>>
>> What do you all think? Is it worth pursuing?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Il giorno lun, 06/11/2017 alle 11.39 +, angelo mornata ha scritto:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
>  
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (‪7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and
> free to use under an open license.
> 
> Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni
> sono state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio
> completare/aggiungere alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della
> conferma? 
> 
> Grazie
> Angelo
> 

"Incompleto" significa soltanto che quel membro non è presente nella
porzione di mappa che hai scaricato. Per scaricare tutti i membri c'è
la funzione apposita nell'editor delle relazioni, in basso a sinistra.


Lorenzo

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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[carlo folini]

A me non sembra ok la relazione dell'Alta via della Val Malenco ;-)

Per lo meno guardando WayMarkedTrail...
https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=6474351=15!46.3073!9.7748

Aprendo il profilo altimetrico e scorrendo con il mouse su di esso si vede
che, ad esempio, sopra Chiareggio la traccia 'salta' in località Forbesina
dall'altra parte della valle (sul torrente Mallero).
La cosa è confermata in JOSM. Sembra che alcune way siano finite in fondo
all'elenco (cosa che era capitato anche a me precedentemente, probabilmente
legato alla modifica di quelle way che JOSM decide di mettere in fondo).

OSM Relation Analyzer, probabilmente perchè non lo conosco, non mi aiuta
molto nel capire il problema (mi sono beccato anche qualche "Internal
error".





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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Il giorno 6 novembre 2017 16:11, angelo mornata 
ha scritto:

> Si d'accordo, in OSM come anche da me scritto è tutto a posto,* il
> problema è in josm*, è li che le relazioni si sono spezzate dopo gli
> ultimi aggiornamenti, e se dovessi fare delle aggiunte alla relazione tipo
> il ref:REI che al momento della creazione non avevo senza praticamente
> rifarla, alla conferma rovinerei la relazione/traccia in OSM.
>
> Ti allego un pezzo del tracciato, così lo scarichi su Josm, clicchi sulla
> traccia e cerchi la relazione.
>
>
> Grazie
>
> Angelo
>
> --
> *Da:* Damjan Gerl 
> *Inviato:* lunedì 6 novembre 2017 15:33
> *A:* talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> *Oggetto:* Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
>
> A me risulta ok, anche da OSM Relation analyzer
> http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=7607193
> OSM Relation Analyzer - Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso Nero-Rifugio
> Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa
> 
> ra.osmsurround.org
> Analyzes OpenStreetMap Relations for gaps.
>
>
> D.
>
> -- Original Header ---
>
> From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
> To  : "talk-it@openstreetmap.org" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> Cc  :
> Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:10:34 +
> Subject : Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
>
> > Scusa Damjan ma la 7607193 in josm non è a posto è spezzata.
> >
> > Grazie
> >
> > Angelo
> >
> >
> > 
> > Da: Damjan Gerl 
> > Inviato: lunedì 6 novembre 2017 13:53
> > A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
> >
> > La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché
> mancano dei pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando
> josm, aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare
> in automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
> > Inoltre per le tue domande:
> > 1.) No
> > 2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm
> il tuo changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà
> aggiornata.
> >
> >
> > Damjan
> >
> >
> > -- Original Header ---
> >
> > From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
> > To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > Cc  :
> > Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
> > Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
> >
> > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
> 
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (‪7607193‬)
> 
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
> to use under an open license.
>
> > [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-
> 835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8de
> b697.png]
> >
> > OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (??7607193‬) openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193>
> > www.openstreetmap.org
> 
> OpenStreetMap 
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
> to use under an open license. Hosting is supported by UCL, Bytemark Hosting
> and Imperial ...
>
> > OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
> to use under an open license.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-
> 835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8de
> b697.png]
> > >
> > > OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio 

Re: [Talk-it] import di tutti gli edifici del Canada

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao,

2017-11-06 18:42 GMT+01:00 Aury88 :

> chiedigli di contattare i colleghi italiani per insegnargli come si fa
> xD
> comunque in America del nord si continua con gli import...
> non so se sia un bene.
> alla fine gli edifici sono un elemento solitamente facile da mappare anche
> per persone alle prime armi...se le cose semplici vengono già tutte
> importante non si rischia di rendere più difficile l'ingresso di nuovi
> utenti ( e potenziali futuri manutentori dei dati)? Personalmente avrei
> preferito un task manager che con i dati del DB individuava le aree dove
> erano necessari contributi :-/
>

Permettimi di dissentire.

E' da inizio gennaio che, insieme ad altri volontari, stiamo importando gli
edifici della Provincia di Biella.

Dopo più di 10 mesi, credo di aver maturato una certa esperienza
sull'edificato disegnato in OSM ricalcato da foto satellitari. La maggior
parte delle volte l'edificio è ricalcato malamente: non coincide con la
forma del tetto e non è posizionato alla base dello stesso, non è stata
usata la funzione di ortogonalizzazione della way, ecc. Sovente la
situazione è anche peggiore, con forme molto approssimate (e sto usando un
eufemismo).

Ma anche i mapper più pignoli (per la verità pochissimi) spesso hanno delle
difficoltà: è  difficile ricalcare gli edifici dalle ortofoto, specie dove
questi sono molto ravvicinati (pensate, ad esempio, ai paesi di montagna) e
con piccoli vicoli che li separano. In questo caso, senza altri supporti,
si rischia di non riuscire a mappare (anche il GPS non prende bene in
queste condizioni).

Gli open data degli edifici (almeno quelli della Provincia di Biella) hanno
il grosso vantaggio di provenire dal catasto e quindi sono pressoché
perfetti.

Inoltre, non dimentichiamoci che ricalcare ogni singolo edificio, come
ricordava un mapper piemontese poco tempo fa, "è sicuramente possibile ma
certo non particolarmente efficiente". E, aggiungo io, specie quando
qualcun altro l'ha già fatto molto meglio di come noi potremo mai fare e lo
mette a disposizione con una licenza che ne consente il riuso in OSM.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

[chris66]

Am 05.11.2017 um 22:25 schrieb Scholtes, Martin:

Hallo Markus,

probiere es doch mal mit dem Win-Installer.



Oder (meine Bevorzugung):

Manueller Start via Kommando im Desktop-Symbol (Icon).

"C:\Program Files (x86)\java\jre8\bin\java.exe" -Xmx1000m  -jar 
\apps\josm\josm-tested.jar


Chris




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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ... - Schriftsysteme

[Richard]

On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 04:17:05PM +0100, Markus wrote:

Hi,

> > ich neige eher dazu, nur die "offiziellen" Transkriptionen händisch 
> > einzutragen
> 
> Hast Du da mal ein paar Beispiele?

will mich nicht ohne gründliche Recherche festlegen aber viele Staaten
dieser Welt legen sehr viel wert Wert darauf ihre offizielen Namen und 
Transkriptionen
für die bekannteren Sprachen festzulegen.
Andernorts gibt es zumindest Richtlinien für die Tourismusindustrie usw.

> > dann würde sich das Beispiel "Zürich" wahrscheinlich erübrigen.
> 
> Ja, Zürich heisst Zürich - in allen Sprachen :-)

nicht so vorschnell:) Wie wäre es mit Zurich, Zurigo, Curych, Zúrich, Sürix, 
Zirich, Turtigo, Turicum. Sogar die offiziellen Landessprachen...
Dh die hypothetische Transkription sollte zumindest die offiziellen 
Landessprachen
berücksichtigen .. da kann man Schwizerdütsch auch noch mitnehmen.

> Um Verständlichkeit zu ermöglichen, sollten wir Ortsnamen auf der Karte
> wahlweise in zwei Schritsystemen anzeigen können.

+1. Irgendeine "vernünftige" Lösung braucht es da.
 
> > Wo keine offizielle oder weitgehend anerkannte Transkription existiert
> > sollte man das den Maschinen überlassen.
> 
> Ja, transkribieren können Maschinen besser.
> Aber "buchstabengenaues Umschreiben" nützt m.E. wenig für die
> Verständlichkeit (wohl aber bei der Systematik, aber die ist eher ein
> WD-/WP-Thema)

ich frage mich ob das überhaupt in der DB drin sein sollte oder ob die Karten-
programme das zur Laufzeit generieren könnten?

> > ein schlichtes ":de" für den riesigen und recht vielfältigen Sprachraum 
> > eher ungenügend 
> 
> Ein deutschsprachiger Ort in CH wird so geschrieben und genannt wie er
> in CH heisst. Gleiches gilt für deutschsprachige Orte in AT und DE.

glaube ich eher nicht und es geht auch nicht nur um Orte. Man schaue sich
z.B. die Flüße an, einige "wechseln" den Namen wenn sie über die Grenze 
BY/AT fließen. Das ist m.E. Unsinn - der Österreicher wird die Ache vermutlich
immer noch Ache nennen auch hinter der Grenze (ich meine jetzt die welche von 
Achenkirch in den Sylvensteiner Speicher fließt). Ganz zu schweigen von der 
Stelle wo es das Grenzflüßschen ist und jede Hälfte anders heißen würde.

Richard

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[OSM-talk-be] Drinkwaterftonteintjes OK

[Philippe Casteleyn]

Behalve in Nieuwpoort en Limburg,

zijn alle drinkwaterftonteintjes in Vlaanderen met  Mapillary getagd

en zijn ze in de foto nog eens getagd als "drinking water".
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[OSM-talk-fr] Rencontre parisienne le vendredi 10 nov - gare de Lyon

[Florian LAINEZ]

Hello,
Et si nous nous retrouvions autour d'une bonne bière ce vendredi ? ça fait
longtemps ...
Je vous propose de nous retrouver au Pop-up du label à partir de 19h :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1034179325
J'en parle sur le forum :
http://forum.openstreetmap.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6=6615

Vu que nous serons nombreux, je vous propose de vous inscrire si vous
voulez dîner :
https://www.helloasso.com/associations/jungle-bus/evenements/rencontre-openstreetmap-paris-10-novembre-2017-inscription-au-diner
Inscriptions avant jeudi 18h.
Si vous voulez dîner sans vous inscrire, c'est également possible, mais
vous ne serez pas assis à une table.

--
Cette rencontre fait suite à la journée de jeudi : le premier sommet de la
cartorgraphie ouverte des réseaux de transport africains aura lieu dans les
locaux de l'AFD (gare de Lyon). Ce sera l'occasion pour nous de rencontrer
les communautés issues de divers pays (Egypte, Ghana, Allemagne, ...) et de
leur présenter Jungle Bus.
De nombreux participants à cette journée seront également présents le
vendredi soir, profitez-en donc pour les rencontrer !
Et aussi pour vous inscrire à la journée de jeudi (inscription gratuite
mais obligatoire) : http://www.digitaltransport4africa.org

Jungle !

-- 

*Florian Lainez*
@overflorian 
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Re: [Talk-cz] multipolygony a cesty v lese

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 6.11.2017 v 18:52 majka napsal(a):
> Nemáme někde na wiki místo pro "Tipy a triky"?

Začni si psát deníček:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-cz] multipolygony a cesty v lese

[Jan Martinec]

Ahoj,
aha, tam to je, díky! Klidně by to mohlo být zmíněný u changesetů, asi bych
to tam hledal/vyhledával.
Zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec

Dne 6. 11. 2017 18:53 napsal uživatel "majka" :

> Pro Mariána:
>
> Seznam Tvých komentářů lze dohledat přes tohle
>  (nad tím kalendářem),
> případně Tvoje rovnou
> 
> .
>
> Majka
>
> P.S.
> Nemáme někde na wiki místo pro "Tipy a triky"? Pokaždé horko těžko
> vzpomínám, kde jsem co našla, a Alzheimer se začíná ozývat stále častěji.
>
> 2017-11-02 13:51 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
>
>>  Neví někdo, zda je někde seznam changesetů, které jsem komentoval? V
>> profilu na OSM nic nevidím :-(
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] multipolygony a cesty v lese

[majka]

Pro Mariána:

Seznam Tvých komentářů lze dohledat přes tohle
 (nad tím kalendářem),
případně Tvoje rovnou

.

Majka

P.S.
Nemáme někde na wiki místo pro "Tipy a triky"? Pokaždé horko těžko
vzpomínám, kde jsem co našla, a Alzheimer se začíná ozývat stále častěji.

2017-11-02 13:51 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :

>  Neví někdo, zda je někde seznam changesetů, které jsem komentoval? V
> profilu na OSM nic nevidím :-(
>
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Re: [Talk-it] import di tutti gli edifici del Canada

[Aury88]

chiedigli di contattare i colleghi italiani per insegnargli come si fa xD
comunque in America del nord si continua con gli import...
non so se sia un bene. 
alla fine gli edifici sono un elemento solitamente facile da mappare anche
per persone alle prime armi...se le cose semplici vengono già tutte
importante non si rischia di rendere più difficile l'ingresso di nuovi
utenti ( e potenziali futuri manutentori dei dati)? Personalmente avrei
preferito un task manager che con i dati del DB individuava le aree dove
erano necessari contributi :-/



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
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Re: [Talk-it] R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao,

2017-11-03 19:31 GMT+01:00 Federico Cortese :

> I dataset disponibili su http://www.dataset.puglia.it/ effettivamente
> sono interessanti, li tengo d'occhio da un po' di tempo.
>
> Mi pare che tutti quei dati siano rilasciati sotto la licenza IODL
> 2.0; spesso qui in lista si è detto che la stessa è direttamente
> compatibile con OSM, ma come suggerito da Napo, un'autorizzazione
> espressa della Regione Puglia che permetta di riusare i dati in
> Openstreetmap non guasterebbe.
>

La IODL 2.0 è compatibile con la ODbL secondo quando dichiarato
dall'estensore della licenza (domanda: *E’ possibile combinare i dati
rilasciati sotto IODL con informazioni rilasciate con altre licenze?):*
http://www.dati.gov.it/content/italian-open-data-license-domande-risposte


Non credo che una PA risponda a richieste di autorizzazioni specifiche,
quando già distribuisce i dati sotto una licenza dichiarata compatibile.
Però sarei felice di essere smentito :-)


Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Hiérarchie des relations d’itinéraire cyclistes

[Adrien Grellier]

Bonjour Axelos,

Ta page est claire, mais l'exemple que tu prends n'est pas matérialisé
dans OpenStreetMap !

En effet, la boucle de la Moselle n'est pas découpée en relations enfants :
https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=1779502=11!48.7176!6.1151

Peut-être as-tu prévu de le faire prochainement ?

Autre remarque : il faudrait probablement indiquer que ce genre de manip
est plutôt à destination des utilisateurs avancés, et non des débutants.
En effet, découper les relations proprement n'est pas forcément facile
lorsqu'on débute dans OSM.

Bonne soirée

Adrien


Le 06/11/2017 à 15:16, Axelos a écrit :
> Coucou,
>
> Le 07/10/2017 à 09:18, Axelos a écrit :
>> J’ai utilisé la carte https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org pour avoir un
>> visu sur mes modifications, et j’ai consulté cette page :
>> https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/help/rendering/hierarchies
>>
>> Qui répond à ma question : oui. Elle explique aussi que si les tags
>> network sont similaires, alors la relation enfant est prit en compte
>> uniquement dans la relation parent, c’est-à-dire que l’enfant n’est pas
>> visible sur la carte.
>> À contrario si le network est différent, alors les deux relations
>> restent présentes.
>> Dans la pratique, j’ai constaté que les tags from et to si utilisés
>> doivent être aussi identique pour ignorer l’enfant.
>>
>> Donc ça permet de jongler dans l’intégration de relations enfants qui
>> font partie du même itinéraire, donc inutiles seuls, mais aussi
>> d’itinéraires d’un niveau inférieur (icn > ncn > rcn > lcn) tout en les
>> gardant disponibles dans la carte.
> Pour info, j'ai créé un brouillon sur le wiki pour pallier au fait qu'il
> n'y a aucune documentation à ce sujet.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Axelos/hierarchies_route%3Dbicycle
>
> Toute remarque est bonne à prendre.
>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!

[Jan Macura]

2017-11-06 14:42 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :

> A nemáš to rychlejší přes Rakousko? :-D
>
To je zajímavej problém pro síťovou analýzu :-) Reálně bych se moc nedivil,
kdyby se ty časy výrazněji nelišily, ale plánovač na mapy.cz mi smysluplnou
variantu (pod 16h) přes Rakousko nevyplivnul. Tak buďto ještě mapy.cz
nemají všechny jízdní řády nebo na tom přeci jenom nejsou české dráhy
(myšleno jako infrastruktura) tak špatně ;-)

H.

P.S.: Nechci tím plevelit talk-cz, zvlášť ve vlákně, který má sbírat
feedback na SoTM, ale jeden poznatek z včerejší cesty ještě přidám:
železnice se v ČR chová anizotropně -- ze západu na východ byla cesta o
hodinu kratší, než z východu na západ. Zjevně se ty české vlaky ještě na
propojení se západní Evropou moc necítí :D
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Richard Fairhurst]

Andy Mabbett wrote:
> Can that tool not be repurposed, and thereby avoid the friction 
> that imports like this seem sadly to cause?

It was implemented as part of Potlatch 2, so sadly probably not appropriate
for general consumption in a post-Flash age:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch_2/merging_functionality

Richard



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[Talk-it] import di tutti gli edifici del Canada

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Sull'ultimo numero di weeklyOSM (1) c'è la notizia che stanno
pianificando l'import (2) di tutti gli edifici del Canada
entro il 2020.
Ho mandato una mail ad un contatto dell'ufficio di statistica del
Canada, tra qualche giorno ci sentiremo e mi esporrà un pò di idee e
condividerà materiale.
Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

1) http://www.weeklyosm.eu/
2)
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020
  


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[Talk-ca] Github - Discussion Style OSM-Carto

[Pierre Béland]

Un ticket a été ouvert sur Github pour discuter des règles de rendu aux zooms 
inférieurs. Les territoires nordiques comme le Canada sont souvent mal rendus à 
ces niveaux - pas de route, village, chemin de fer, aéroport. une Carte Blanche 
!  N'hésitez pas à commenter sur Github.
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2925

 
Pierre 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Christian Ledermann]

On 6 November 2017 at 15:45, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> On 3 November 2017 at 09:55, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
>
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel 
>> stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for 
>> putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import 
>> and sent an updated list of the stations. I have prepared an import and 
>> would like to do it in a few days.
>>
>> Please help me review the data.
>
> Some years ago, we had a data donation, here in the United Kingdom, of
> data on cycle shops. These were imported into a tool which (if memory
> serves) enabled users to compare them to existing entries, and import
> the data to them if useful, or add new objects if necessary. I recall
> that it didn't take long for the UK community to process them.
>
> Can that tool not be repurposed, and thereby avoid the friction that
> imports like this seem sadly to cause?

there is also https://github.com/cleder/os-opendata-edubase for crowd
import which powers https://schools.mapthe.uk/

>
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-- 
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
https://github.com/cleder/


<*)))>{

If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.

1) Don’t drive species to extinction

2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.

3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.

}<(((*>

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Mabbett]

On 3 November 2017 at 09:55, Ilya Zverev  wrote:

> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel 
> stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for 
> putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import 
> and sent an updated list of the stations. I have prepared an import and would 
> like to do it in a few days.
>
> Please help me review the data.

Some years ago, we had a data donation, here in the United Kingdom, of
data on cycle shops. These were imported into a tool which (if memory
serves) enabled users to compare them to existing entries, and import
the data to them if useful, or add new objects if necessary. I recall
that it didn't take long for the UK community to process them.

Can that tool not be repurposed, and thereby avoid the friction that
imports like this seem sadly to cause?

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[SteMo]

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb am 06.11.17 um 10:51:
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
>> On 5. Nov 2017, at 23:18, SteMo  wrote:
>>
>> Aber die Bahnhöfe/Orte heißen nun mal heute nicht mehr so, sondern anders.
>>
>> (Istanbul heißt nicht mehr Byzanz, Kolkata nicht mehr Kalkutta, Sri
>> Lanka nicht mehr Ceylon, Chemnitz nicht mehr Karl-Marx-Stadt,
>> Willly-Brandt-Straße nicht mehr Ost-West-Straße (HH), etc.pp.)
> 
> 
> 
> ja eben, das sind alles Orte die heute als Eigenschaft haben, früher diese 
> Namen gehabt zu haben (old_name).
> 

Und eben das ist es ja, die werden in Polen häufig eben nicht unter
"old_name" gespeichert, sondern unter "name:de"!


> Als Randbemerkung: Kalkutta gibt es eigentlich schon noch, auch wenn das 
> vielleicht nicht mehr der offizielle Name ist.
> 

Und ebenso am Rande: Habe ich doch gar nicht geschrieben. Und ja, es
heißt nicht mehr so, sondern hat einen neuen Namen, wie Du zutreffend
bestätigst. Genau darum geht es (mir) doch.
Die beispielhaft genannten Örtlichkeiten heißen heute nicht mehr so (,
wie manche Kollegen auch Orte in z.B. Polen unzutreffend "mappen"),
sondern haben heute und jetzt einfach nicht mehr die alten Namen,
sondern neuen aktuelle Namen, die auch so als aktuelle Namen zu
akzeptieren sind. Genau und gerade von uns als Mapper.


> Der Reichstag in Berlin heißt z.B. auch noch Reichstag, obwohl sich da jetzt 
> der Bundestag versammelt (und Bundestag auch ein anderer Name für den Ort 
> ist).
> 

Der heißt auch heute noch so und wurde eben nicht, wie mal nach der
Wiedervereinigung diskutiert wurde, geändert. Ebenso, wie in z.B.
Hamburg einige sehr prägnante Umbenennungen passiert sind: Der Hamburger
Flughafen heißt jetzt in Denglish "Helmut Schmidt Airport" und die
"Ost-West-Straße" heißt jetzt nun mal seit einigen Jahren
"Willy-Brandt-Straße" und so geht es mit einigen anderen Plätzen und
Straßen in Hamburg. Gerade wird sehr stark und kontrovers diskutiert, ob
einige U-Bahn Haltestellen, die seit z.T. über 60-70 Jahren existieren
umbenannt werden.
BTW. Das Volksparkstadion hat in die letzten 16 Jahren eine wahre
Namensodyssee hinter sich. Was soll denn da als "old_name" getaggt
werden?! ;)  "https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksparkstadion;

Und ich kann mir nur schwer vorstellen, daß die (meisten) Chemnitzer
begeistert wären, wenn wir sie Karl-Marx-Städter nennen, denn das war ja
mal Ostdeutsch. ;)

Wer historische Bezeichnungen wiederaufleben lassen möchte, kann das in
den Historischen Hinweisen in der Wikipedia machen, aber nicht bei
OpenStreetMap. Wir sind doch nicht "OpenHistoryMap", oder? ;)

Cheers,
Stefan





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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ... - Schriftsysteme

[Markus]

Hallo Max und Richard,
> On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 10:13:54PM +0900, Max wrote:
>> On 2017년 11월 06일 20:19, Richard wrote:
>>> On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 09:11:34PM +0100, Markus wrote:
>>>
 4. Wenn jemand lokale Namen in anderen Schriftsystemen abbildet,
damit Menschen die die ursprünglichen Schrift nicht lesen können,
wenigstens den Namen lautmalerisch nachbilden können,
dann macht das m.E. Sinn.
>>>
>>> gibt es schon einen Sprachcode für "phonetic"? Wobei es davon auch viele
>>> Varianten gibt.
>>> In vielen Fällen gibt es sogar eine offizielle phonetische Transkription,
>>> die sollte man bestimmt  eintragen.

Eine Lautschrift ist für OSM m.E. viel zu komplex,
und bei den Benutzern nicht verbreitet.

Wikipedia verwendet das int. phonetische Alphabeth:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationales_Phonetisches_Alphabet

Aber vielleicht kennen die Sprach-/Kommunikationswissenschaftler ja noch
eine geeignetere Methode, um Ortsnamen für Menschen, denen andere
Schriftsysteme vertraut sind, verständlich zu machen?

>> Wie ist denn die Aussprache von Zürich beispielsweise?

Zürich, Zürichsee, Zürcher Geschnetzeltes)

>> Soll hier das Hochdeutsche in Lautschrift gesetzt werden,

Ja, immer die offizielle (Landes-)Sprache.

>> oder Schwizerdütsch? 
Nein, Dialekte sind da nicht geeignet (Züri, Zürisee, Zürigschnätzlets).

>> Das riecht eher nach einer Aufgabe für wikidata als für OSM.

Ja, WD ist hier ein mächtiges Werkzeug.
(das m.W. noch ungelöste Problem sind die bei OSM instabilen Geo-IDs)

> ich neige eher dazu, nur die "offiziellen" Transkriptionen händisch 
> einzutragen

Hast Du da mal ein paar Beispiele?

> dann würde sich das Beispiel "Zürich" wahrscheinlich erübrigen.

Ja, Zürich heisst Zürich - in allen Sprachen :-)

Aber die Araber, Chinesen, Griechen, Russen, etc. werden den Namen in
anderen Zeichen abbilden.

Um Verständlichkeit zu ermöglichen, sollten wir Ortsnamen auf der Karte
wahlweise in zwei Schritsystemen anzeigen können.

> Wo keine offizielle oder weitgehend anerkannte Transkription existiert
> sollte man das den Maschinen überlassen.

Ja, transkribieren können Maschinen besser.
Aber "buchstabengenaues Umschreiben" nützt m.E. wenig für die
Verständlichkeit (wohl aber bei der Systematik, aber die ist eher ein
WD-/WP-Thema)

> ein schlichtes ":de" für den riesigen und recht vielfältigen Sprachraum 
> eher ungenügend 

Ein deutschsprachiger Ort in CH wird so geschrieben und genannt wie er
in CH heisst. Gleiches gilt für deutschsprachige Orte in AT und DE.

Ein französischsprachiger Ort in FR wird ebenfalls so geschrieben, wie
er in der Landessprache in FR heisst.

Zweisprachige Orte, bei denen zwei Namen auf dem Ortsschild stehen,
werden genau so genannt (z.B. Biel-Bienne).

> Gibt es sowas wie de_CH, de_DE, de_IT? Schwizerdütsch ist vielleicht eine
> eigene Sprachenfamilie?

Dialekte und deren Varianten gehören m.E. nicht in OSM.
Ausser eindeutige und offizielle Schreibweisen in "name_local"
z.B. "Züri" bei Zürich.

Mit herzlichem Gruss,
Markus

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Re: [OSM-ja] 11/11 東京！街歩き！マッピングパーティ：第13回 大宮八幡宮

[yasunari yamashita]

東京！街歩き！マッピングパーティを毎月開催している山下です。
みなさん、こんにちわ。

今週末に都内最強パワースポット(?)杉並の大宮八幡宮をターゲットに開催します。
https://openstreetmap.connpass.com/event/69224/
みなさん、どうぞお越しください！！


2017年10月19日 2:06 yasunari yamashita :

> 山下です。皆さんこんにちわ。
>
> 東京を街歩きして、
> 楽しみながら 自由な地図であるOpenStreetMapに書いていくマッピングパーティ、
> 11月は東京のへそ・子育て厄除けの八幡さまである大宮八幡宮へ行きます
> https://openstreetmap.connpass.com/event/69224/
> みなさん、どうぞお越しください！！
> --
> 山下康成＠東京都新宿区
>



-- 
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Balti resturants

[Andy Mabbett]

Checking possible venues for our Christmas curry, I noticed that we
have balti houses tagged "cuisine=indian".

I'm sure many Balti lovers will be affronted by this; as an "Indian
restaurant" and a "balti house" are very different beasts

Should we perhaps use "cuisine=kashmiri" or "cuisine=balti"?

Happy to debate this in person, at the aforesaid event ;-)

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Christmas curry

[Andy Mabbett]

On 5 November 2017 at 16:35, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Sounds good to me. It's in my diary.

Likewise.

> Anyone got any preference for a good curry house?

I can recommend Manzils, next to Digbeth police station, if a central
venue is wanted:

   http://www.manzils.co.uk/

   https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3245136568

or Adil's, in the balti triangle:

   http://www.adilbalti.co.uk/

   https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3520086674

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Christmas curry

[Andy Mabbett]

On 5 November 2017 at 16:35, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Sounds good to me. It's in my diary.

Likewise.

> Anyone got any preference for a good curry house?

I can recommend Manzils, next to Digbeth police station, if a central
venue is wanted:

   http://www.manzils.co.uk/

   https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3245136568

or Adil's, in the balti triangle:

   http://www.adilbalti.co.uk/

   https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3520086674

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[Damjan Gerl]

A me risulta ok, anche da OSM Relation analyzer
http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=7607193

D.

-- Original Header ---

From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
To  : "talk-it@openstreetmap.org" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:10:34 +
Subject : Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

> Scusa Damjan ma la 7607193 in josm non è a posto è spezzata.
> 
> Grazie
> 
> Angelo
> 
> 
> 
> Da: Damjan Gerl 
> Inviato: lunedì 6 novembre 2017 13:53
> A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
> 
> La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché mancano 
> dei pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando josm, 
> aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare in 
> automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
> Inoltre per le tue domande:
> 1.) No
> 2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il tuo 
> changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà aggiornata.
> 
> 
> Damjan
> 
> 
> -- Original Header ---
> 
> From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
> To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> Cc  :
> Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
> Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
> 
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]
> 
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso 
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
> (??7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to 
> use under an open license.
> 
> 
> >
> > [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]
> >
> > OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso 
> > Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
> > (??7607193‬)
> > www.openstreetmap.org
> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]
> 
> OpenStreetMap
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to 
> use under an open license. Hosting is supported by UCL, Bytemark Hosting and 
> Imperial ...
> 
> 
> > OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to 
> > use under an open license.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni sono 
> > state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> >
> > Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> >
> > Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> >
> > 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> >
> > 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere 
> > alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
> >
> >
> > Grazie
> >
> > Angelo
> >
> 
> ___
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> altri di ...
> 
> 
> 

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[Talk-cz] Dotaz: mapování STK + emise, otvírací doba

[majka]

Ahoj,

Po nedávné návštěvě STK

jsem začala přidávat tahle místa do mapy.
Jen jsem narazila na drobný problém: Jak tam správně zadat otvírací dobu,
resp. jak zadat emise a STK v jednom místě.

Možnosti:
zadat samostatný POI pro emise a samostatný pro STK (jak rozlišit - názvem
či nějaký podklíč?), ke každému zadat opening_hours a service_times -
protože poslední auto berou nejpozději cca 30 min. před koncem, případně
jen opening_hours.

nebo

zadat obojí do jednoho POI, a pak rozlišit otvírací doby jak? Delší dát
jako otvírací dobu, a kratší jako service_times?

Momentálně mám u dvou různých zadánu jednu (velkou) STK samostatným bodem
pro technickou a samostatným pro emise, a druhá stanice je zatím jen
společným bodem. Otvírací dobu jsem zadávala zatím vždy jen tu delší.

Díky za nápady,
Majka
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Hiérarchie des relations d’itinéraire cyclistes

[Axelos]

Coucou,

Le 07/10/2017 à 09:18, Axelos a écrit :
> J’ai utilisé la carte https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org pour avoir un
> visu sur mes modifications, et j’ai consulté cette page :
> https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/help/rendering/hierarchies
> 
> Qui répond à ma question : oui. Elle explique aussi que si les tags
> network sont similaires, alors la relation enfant est prit en compte
> uniquement dans la relation parent, c’est-à-dire que l’enfant n’est pas
> visible sur la carte.
> À contrario si le network est différent, alors les deux relations
> restent présentes.
> Dans la pratique, j’ai constaté que les tags from et to si utilisés
> doivent être aussi identique pour ignorer l’enfant.
> 
> Donc ça permet de jongler dans l’intégration de relations enfants qui
> font partie du même itinéraire, donc inutiles seuls, mais aussi
> d’itinéraires d’un niveau inférieur (icn > ncn > rcn > lcn) tout en les
> gardant disponibles dans la carte.

Pour info, j'ai créé un brouillon sur le wiki pour pallier au fait qu'il
n'y a aucune documentation à ce sujet.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Axelos/hierarchies_route%3Dbicycle

Toute remarque est bonne à prendre.

-- 

Comment les entreprises surveillent notre quotidien ?
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ...

[Richard]

On Mon, Nov 06, 2017 at 10:13:54PM +0900, Max wrote:
> On 2017년 11월 06일 20:19, Richard wrote:
> >On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 09:11:34PM +0100, Markus wrote:
> >
> >>4. Wenn jemand lokale Namen in anderen Schriftsystemen abbildet,
> >>damit Menschen die die ursprünglichen Schrift nicht lesen können,
> >>wenigstens den Namen lautmalerisch nachbilden können,
> >>dann macht das m.E. Sinn.
> >>Leider haben wir m.W. noch keine tags für Schriften.
> >>(und m.W. auch noch kein HowTo im Wiki)
> >
> >gibt es schon einen Sprachcode für "phonetic"? Wobei es davon auch viele
> >Varianten gibt.
> >In vielen Fällen gibt es sogar eine offizielle phonetische Transkription,
> >die sollte man bestimmt  eintragen.
> 
> 
> Das ist eine Dose mit Würmern. Wie ist denn die Aussprache von Zürich
> beispielsweise? Soll hier das Hochdeutsche in Lautschrift gesetzt werden,
> oder Schwizerdütsch? Das riecht eher nach einer Aufgabe für wikidata als für
> OSM.

ich neige eher dazu, nur die "offiziellen" Transkriptionen händisch einzutragen,
dann würde sich das Beispiel "Zürich" wahrscheinlich erübrigen.
Wo keine offizielle oder weitgehend anerkannte Transkription existiert
sollte man das den Maschinen überlassen.

Ansonsten denke ich schon seit Tagen darüber nach, daß ein schlichtes ":de" 
für den riesigen und recht vielfältigen Sprachraum eher ungenügend ist. 
Gibt es sowas wie de_CH, de_DE, de_IT? Schwizerdütsch ist vielleicht eine
eigene Sprachenfamilie?

Richard

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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[angelo mornata]

Scusa Damjan ma la 7607193 in josm non è a posto è spezzata.

Grazie

Angelo



Da: Damjan Gerl 
Inviato: lunedì 6 novembre 2017 13:53
A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché mancano dei 
pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando josm, 
aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare in 
automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
Inoltre per le tue domande:
1.) No
2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il tuo 
changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà aggiornata.


Damjan


-- Original Header ---

From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  :
Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso Nero-Rifugio 
Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
(‪7607193‬)
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.


>
> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]
>
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso 
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
> (??7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license. Hosting is supported by UCL, Bytemark Hosting and 
Imperial ...


> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to 
> use under an open license.
>
>
>
> Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni sono 
> state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
>
> Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
>
> Ora sorgono alcune domande:
>
> 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
>
> 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere 
> alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
>
>
> Grazie
>
> Angelo
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Philip Barnes]

On 6 November 2017 13:45:15 GMT+00:00, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>On 06/11/2017 13:34, Philip Barnes wrote:
>> I don't believe that the type is needed as it can be derived from the
>
>> designation tag. 
>
>... provided that someone hasn't caused that to be lost somehow
>(perhaps 
>by merging ways by mistake).  :)
>
>Also there are examples of paths on the border between two areas that 
>had or have one designation in one authority and a different one in 
>another..

Lots of those, especially where they cross the border into Wales. 

Paths in Shropshire change reference when they cross a parish boundary and each 
link also has a unique reference. 

You can also derive the former district from the parish code too and it also 
avoids confusion where there are duplicate or similar names. 

Phil (trigpoint) 
>
>Best Regards,
>Andy
>
>
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-- 
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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[Damjan Gerl]

Eh si, un tool per la verifica di relazioni spezzate e non ordinate sarebbe 
bello e potrebbe starci in OSM Inspector ( http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ )   
:-)'

Damjan 

-- Original Header ---

From  : "Volker Schmidt" vosc...@gmail.com
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 14:38:08 +0100
Subject : Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

> Relation Analyzer  ti permette d controllare se
> ci sono buchi.
> Per l'ordinamanto conosco solo JOSM
> 
> Ecco come esempio la relazione 6474351 difettosa con la funziona "analyze
> on map":
> http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=6474351
> Zoomando sui puntatori vedi quali sono i problemi. Troverei che nel esempio
> solo due sono veri buchi, gli altri sono la consequnza di brevi diramazioni.
> 
> Volker
> 
> 
> 2017-11-06 14:11 GMT+01:00 carlo folini :
> 
> > Ciao,
> > Mi stavo chiedendo le stesse cose avendo riscontrato il problema su alcuni
> > percorsi in Valtellina (sentiero Valtellina/ del sole/terrazzamenti).
> > Quardando altre relazioni sembra un problema abbastanza diffuso.
> > Non esiste proprio un tool che dia una 'sgrossata' ai problemi di
> > ordinamento? Un tool che segnali le relazioni afflitte dal problema?
> > Attualmente il modo più veloce che ho trovato è quardare il grafico
> > altimetrico in waymarkedtrail.
> >
> > Il 06 nov 2017 1:54 PM, "Damjan Gerl"  ha scritto:
> >
> > La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché
> > mancano dei pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando
> > josm, aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare
> > in automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
> > Inoltre per le tue domande:
> > 1.) No
> > 2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il
> > tuo changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà
> > aggiornata.
> >
> >
> > Damjan
> >
> >
> > -- Original Header ---
> >
> > From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
> > To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > Cc  :
> > Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
> > Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
> >
> > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
> > >
> > > [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf
> > 0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]<
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193>
> > >
> > > OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> > Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (??7607193‬) > reetmap.org/relation/7607193>
> > > www.openstreetmap.org
> > > OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
> > to use under an open license.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni
> > sono state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> > >
> > > Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> > >
> > > Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> > >
> > > 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> > >
> > > 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere
> > alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
> > >
> > >
> > > Grazie
> > >
> > > Angelo
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-it mailing list
> > Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-it mailing list
> > Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> >
> >
> 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 6 November 2017 at 13:23, Mike Evans  wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 12:46:34 +
> Rob Nickerson  wrote:
>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>> > A typical code is "PB|SP29|4/1"
>>
>> Be warned, this is not the format that Pembrokeshire use on the pdf scans
>> on their website. It seems to be GIS data only and may be a format Barry
>> made.
>
> Indeed so. ON the PDF it's referenced as  "SP29/4"

In this case I would go for prow_ref=SP29/4 as the Council appears to
have a clear and unambiguous reference format in use on its Definitive
Map. (My view might change if the Definitive Statement used some other
scheme, and then I'd have to decide between the two.) Since there's a
clear format I'd use that, and not artificially add parish names or
types to it. (My guess would be that the "SP29" is some sort of
area/parish/map sheet code, and the "4" is the traditional number of
the RoW within that area.)

FYI: AFAIK, the value in rowmaps isn't supposed to be a ref for use in
OSM, and has been deliberately standardised to suit the author's aims
and database structure. The initial two characters are a code for the
county, while the digit after the final slash is a segment number to
distinguish GIS objects with identical other parts of the key. What's
in the middle has been extracted from the council-supplied GIS file in
some way. In terms of OSM's prow_ref key, I think the county-code and
segment numbers should both be neglected. We don't add either to road
reference numbers for example, despite the latter being likely to
appear in GIS files.

Also, for Pembrokeshire, note that according to
http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/PB/ , the GIS data was only released
under the "Ordnance Survey OpenData Licence", which isn't compatible
with use in OSM. I disagree with the subsequent statement there, which
implies that OS's statement automatically allows any OS-ODL licensed
data to now be used under the OGL. My view is that the actual rights
holders would have to re-license the data, as OS can't make that
decision for them. So IMO to use Pembrokeshire's data from rowmaps in
OSM, we'd need to get an additional permission/licence from
Pembrokeshire Council.

Robert.

-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Andy Townsend]

On 06/11/2017 13:34, Philip Barnes wrote:
I don't believe that the type is needed as it can be derived from the 
designation tag. 


... provided that someone hasn't caused that to be lost somehow (perhaps 
by merging ways by mistake).  :)


Also there are examples of paths on the border between two areas that 
had or have one designation in one authority and a different one in 
another..


Best Regards,
Andy


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Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Jan Macura 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 6. 11. 2017 14:33:47
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!
"



Ahoj,


v sobotu na panelové diskusi jsem nebyl, ale nedělní program mě bavil.
Oceňuji, že každý příspěvek se týkal opravdu nějakého jiného aspektu OSM a
nebylo to "turistické trasy 100x jinak" ;-) Myslím, že i to se odrazilo v
naplněnosti místnosti při některých přednáškách.


Díky organizátorům za zdařilou akci a za rok možná zas (pokud do té doby
postaví rychlovlak Plzeň--Brno :-) )

"



A nemáš to rychlejší přes Rakousko? :-D




Marián
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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[Volker Schmidt]

Relation Analyzer  ti permette d controllare se
ci sono buchi.
Per l'ordinamanto conosco solo JOSM

Ecco come esempio la relazione 6474351 difettosa con la funziona "analyze
on map":
http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeMap?relationId=6474351
Zoomando sui puntatori vedi quali sono i problemi. Troverei che nel esempio
solo due sono veri buchi, gli altri sono la consequnza di brevi diramazioni.

Volker


2017-11-06 14:11 GMT+01:00 carlo folini :

> Ciao,
> Mi stavo chiedendo le stesse cose avendo riscontrato il problema su alcuni
> percorsi in Valtellina (sentiero Valtellina/ del sole/terrazzamenti).
> Quardando altre relazioni sembra un problema abbastanza diffuso.
> Non esiste proprio un tool che dia una 'sgrossata' ai problemi di
> ordinamento? Un tool che segnali le relazioni afflitte dal problema?
> Attualmente il modo più veloce che ho trovato è quardare il grafico
> altimetrico in waymarkedtrail.
>
> Il 06 nov 2017 1:54 PM, "Damjan Gerl"  ha scritto:
>
> La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché
> mancano dei pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando
> josm, aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare
> in automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
> Inoltre per le tue domande:
> 1.) No
> 2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il
> tuo changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà
> aggiornata.
>
>
> Damjan
>
>
> -- Original Header ---
>
> From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
> To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> Cc  :
> Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
> Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate
>
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
> >
> > [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf
> 0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]<
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193>
> >
> > OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (??7607193‬) reetmap.org/relation/7607193>
> > www.openstreetmap.org
> > OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
> to use under an open license.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni
> sono state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> >
> > Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> >
> > Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> >
> > 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> >
> > 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere
> alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
> >
> >
> > Grazie
> >
> > Angelo
> >
>
> ___
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> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 6 November 2017 at 11:13, Dave F  wrote:
> I'm unsure why or how often "altered reference format" happens, but would be
> a LA internal matter & irrelevant to OSM.

I haven't looked in detail at that many Authorities, but I would guess
that if you see a numeric parish code in the GIS data, then it's
likely to be an "altered reference format", as the legal documents
(written years ago, before computer systems) are unlikely to make use
of such numbers. (Unless of course an Authority has done a bulk
re-numbering of all their Rights of Way at some point.) My view is
that we should be basing our prow_ref on official the legal names from
the legal documents (The Definitive Map and Statement) and not an
internal code that's been assigned later by the Authority as a
database key in a non-Definitive database.

> We should be using the references
> provided to us under OGL even if "different LAs use different reference
> styles and with different degrees of consistency" or there's "obviously
> different de facto standard in use by an LA".

As I said before, I think it's important to note that the GIS data
provided by the authorities is generally not the official legal record
of their Public Rights of Way. So to determine the most appropriate
reference format to use in OSM, I think we should be looking instead
at the Definitive Map and Statement, and basing what we use on what's
in use there.

> OSM can't use any other format used by LA's if not issued under OGL.

I don't think that's strictly correct. We could use a different format
(on the grounds that the format itself isn't copyrightable), and it
would be ok to convert OGL-licensed refs/data to such a format
provided it could be done using only suitably-licensed data. In any
case, we often have the Definitive Statements under the OGL, in which
case, we could make use of whatever referencing system (typically
based on named parishes) is used there.

> OSM has to use a reference that relates to other databases. Concocting our
> own makes these paths impossible to be "uniformly interpreted and
> processed". AFAICS "Parish FP 12" isn't a "common standard"?

Apart from BOAT -> BY, it's exactly what Suffolk now uses in its
Definitive Statements, and also exactly what Norfolk uses in its GIS
data. (The Norfolk Definitive Statement isn't structured data, but
still uses the same elements for the identifier -- each parish is a
named heading, and then there's a sub-heading for each RoW of the form
"Footpath 12". So apart from abbreviating the type, it's basically the
same format.)

As different counties obviously do very different things, perhaps it
would be better to discuss some specifics. Is there a particular
county/authority where you think there's a better prow_ref format that
OSM should be using instead of what other mappers are using at the
moment?

Robert.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Philip Barnes]

I don't believe that the type is needed as it can be derived from the 
designation tag. 

As a regular user of rights of way references to report problems to my local 
highway authority I can vouch that the parish code based GIS reference is far 
easier to use than the colloquial reference suggested by the wiki.

The wiki method also neglects the vital link number included in the GIS 
reference.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 6 November 2017 12:46:34 GMT+00:00, Rob Nickerson 
 wrote:
>Mike wrote:
>
>> A typical code is "PB|SP29|4/1"
>
>Be warned, this is not the format that Pembrokeshire use on the pdf
>scans
>on their website. It seems to be GIS data only and may be a format
>Barry
>made.
>
>PB is "Pembrokeshire"!
>
>As Pembrokeshire don't use parish names I'd go for prow_ref="FP
>SP29/4/1"
>assuming this is a footpath.
>
>Thanks,
>Rob
>
>
>
>On 6 Nov 2017 12:30 p.m., "Rob Nickerson" 
>wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I think the point was that nobody has a common format. Some LAs use a
>> different style when they refer to the same path in the definitive
>> statement when compared to the GIS data.
>>
>> Of course we can manipulate OGL data. That's included in the licence.
>If
>> we do change then it should be obvious to the LA what we mean if we
>speak
>> with them.
>>
>> I will be sticking with the wiki for any I map as this has been
>previously
>> discussed and has therefore grown traction according to taginfo.
>>
>> For Leicestershire it seems to be an obvious change: they don't
>include
>> Parish so just don't include it. So I'd map prow_ref="FP J16" as an
>example.
>>
>> P.s. I thought folks usually don't like to add third party database
>> references to OSM. Hence we came to an agreement of how prow_ref
>should be
>> *constructed* based on OGL data (not just a copy of one of the third
>party
>> attribute values).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>

-- 
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Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!

[Jan Macura]

Ahoj,

v sobotu na panelové diskusi jsem nebyl, ale nedělní program mě bavil.
Oceňuji, že každý příspěvek se týkal opravdu nějakého jiného aspektu OSM a
nebylo to "turistické trasy 100x jinak" ;-) Myslím, že i to se odrazilo v
naplněnosti místnosti při některých přednáškách.

Díky organizátorům za zdařilou akci a za rok možná zas (pokud do té doby
postaví rychlovlak Plzeň--Brno :-) )
 H.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Mike Evans]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 12:46:34 +
Rob Nickerson  wrote:

> Mike wrote:
> 
> > A typical code is "PB|SP29|4/1"  
> 
> Be warned, this is not the format that Pembrokeshire use on the pdf scans
> on their website. It seems to be GIS data only and may be a format Barry
> made.

Indeed so. ON the PDF it's referenced as  "SP29/4"

> 
> PB is "Pembrokeshire"!
> 
> As Pembrokeshire don't use parish names I'd go for prow_ref="FP SP29/4/1"
> assuming this is a footpath.
The FP part seems redundant as it's already tagged as a footpath elsewhere 
however, "FP SP29/4" would be correct I guess.

Cheers
Mike 
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 Nov 2017 12:30 p.m., "Rob Nickerson"  wrote:
> 
> > Dave,
> >
> > I think the point was that nobody has a common format. Some LAs use a
> > different style when they refer to the same path in the definitive
> > statement when compared to the GIS data.
> >
> > Of course we can manipulate OGL data. That's included in the licence. If
> > we do change then it should be obvious to the LA what we mean if we speak
> > with them.
> >
> > I will be sticking with the wiki for any I map as this has been previously
> > discussed and has therefore grown traction according to taginfo.
> >
> > For Leicestershire it seems to be an obvious change: they don't include
> > Parish so just don't include it. So I'd map prow_ref="FP J16" as an example.
> >
> > P.s. I thought folks usually don't like to add third party database
> > references to OSM. Hence we came to an agreement of how prow_ref should be
> > *constructed* based on OGL data (not just a copy of one of the third party
> > attribute values).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rob
> >  


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Et puis vouloir me reporter la faute sur ce calendrier c'est aussi ignorer
le fait qu'il y a vraiment un tas de monde qui se débrouille avec très bien
tous les jours et il n'y a rien à redire. Les rares fois où j'interviens
c'est justement pour que l'utilisateur qui l'utilise pour WikiOSM n'ait pas
de difficultés : je lui mâche largement le travail en maintenant le format
le plus uniforme possible en connaissant ses limites (parfois je n'ai pas
eu le temps de le faire quand il a saisit au vol une version où un ajout
récent ne tenait pas compte des recommandations actuelles.

Je n'ai jamais été contre une évolution de ce format. Mais il faudra bien
qu'il s'investisse un peu pour corriger ce que son outil ne sait pas faire
depuis longtemps. Le problème n'est pas nouveau et traîne depuis des années.

Enfin je ne suis pas un robot, et même un robot peut faire des erreurs (la
preuve, avec son outil bogué). La tendance maintenant est pour certains de
forcer tous les autres à agir comme des robots et incite à la paresse: plus
question de lire plus de 3 mots, et réponse automatique sur un seul pris
hors de son contexte. OSM se voudrait au service des utilisateurs mais
certains ne tolèrent plus que les robots (qui pourtant insèrent des tas de
nuisances jamais contrôlées et encore plus polluantes, que ce soit sur les
données OSM ou les réseaux sociaux) et une seule langue ("l'anglais"
partout, mais surtout en SMS). Et sinon se prendre une volée d'insultes
(aucune patience et de toute façon aucune volonté de discuter de toute
façon, la mode est au "+1" car de moins en moins de monde veut s'investir
plus de quelques secondes même pour taper un seul mot correct) comme si
c'était acceptable et qu'on "parlait" juste à d'autres robots qui ne s'en
plaindront pas.


Le 6 novembre 2017 à 13:28, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> Ce n'est pas faute d'avoir voulu négocier avec lui et d'avoir déjà pris en
> compte depuis longtemps les limites de son engin... qu'il ne veut pas
> toucher du tout.
> Il dit n'avoir pas le temps de le corriger, mais au lieu de corriger
> manuellement les erreurs produites par son outil (qu'il veut maintenir tout
> seul) en faisant une simple relecture du résultat sachant que l'outil se
> plante à chaque fois depuis des mois (et pas du tout à cause de "moi" parce
> que justement j'ai pris soin de lui éviter la plupart des erreurs), il a
> voulu faire une correction mineure à un endroit qui de toute façon ne
> marchait pas non plus ailleurs.
>
> D'où d'autres préconisations comme le fait de devoir rajouter des virgules
> après une ponctuation ou le fait de vouloir supprimer des liens dans les
> descriptions ou les faire pointer nulle part (liens rouges).
> Il aurait du reconnaître que s'il ne peut pas corriger son outil, il
> devait alors corriger les résultats produits (ce qui ne lui aurait de toute
> façon pas coûté plus cher, même en temps).
>
> J'ai fait de très nombreux pas dans sa direction à condition de ne pas
> casser le reste. Il y a eu une proposition intelligente faite il y a
> longtemps (les microformats, faits pour ça et bien documentés). Je lui ai
> donné les exemples détaillés, Mais je n'ai pas pu aller au bout de la
> démarche (donc impossibilité de mieux détailler les microformats sans
> casser complètement son outil propriétaire qu'il ne documente pas du tout
> en fait et dont il ne veut pas reconnaitre les limites). Des parseurs de
> wikicode corrects il en existe (dont le Pywiki largement utilisé aussi sur
> les wikis de Wikimedia: en lecture seule il n'y a aucun besoin
> d'autorisation pour l'utiliser). La syntaxe de marquage  MediaWiki ce n'est
> pas moi lqui l'ai inventée, mais son outil se planterait de la même façon
> si c'était du Markdown, ou même seulement du HTML brut (il suffit de voir
> qu'il en reconnait pas non plus la balise "small" qu'il interprète comme du
> texte.
>
> En fait il voudrait que le calendrier ne soit qu'un fichier texte CSV, ce
> qu'il n'a jamais été (et le priverait de tous les liens qu'il voudrait
> pourtant afficher). Il voudrait qu'il y ait des noms de ville et un pays
> mais rien d'autre (alors même que c'est souvent nécessaire de préciser
> mieux, un nom de ville est souvent ambigu). De plus le calendrier a
> toujours eu des événements localisés non spécifiquement dans une ville, et
> parfois pour plusieurs pays (à cause de ça on a du rajouter un pseudo-champ
> "monde" et même parfois une pseudo-ville et les rendre visibles, ou souvent
> de les répéter.
>
> Si j'avais voulu faire plus propre, j'aurais créé un modèle séparant les
> champs mais introduit beaucoup moins de flexibilité dans la présentation
> (nombre et position des liens) et encore plus de difficultés pour
> géolicaliser les évènements. Tout a été documenté (en conservant tout ce
> qui était utilisé dans le passé et surtout sans casser non plus les reste
> du wiki là où deux modèles sont utilisés pour la date et l'icone, pour
> d'autres calendriers ou pour des 

Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ...

[Max]

On 2017년 11월 06일 20:19, Richard wrote:

On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 09:11:34PM +0100, Markus wrote:


4. Wenn jemand lokale Namen in anderen Schriftsystemen abbildet,
damit Menschen die die ursprünglichen Schrift nicht lesen können,
wenigstens den Namen lautmalerisch nachbilden können,
dann macht das m.E. Sinn.
Leider haben wir m.W. noch keine tags für Schriften.
(und m.W. auch noch kein HowTo im Wiki)


gibt es schon einen Sprachcode für "phonetic"? Wobei es davon auch viele
Varianten gibt.
In vielen Fällen gibt es sogar eine offizielle phonetische Transkription,
die sollte man bestimmt  eintragen.



Das ist eine Dose mit Würmern. Wie ist denn die Aussprache von Zürich 
beispielsweise? Soll hier das Hochdeutsche in Lautschrift gesetzt 
werden, oder Schwizerdütsch? Das riecht eher nach einer Aufgabe für 
wikidata als für OSM.


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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[carlo folini]

Ciao,
Mi stavo chiedendo le stesse cose avendo riscontrato il problema su alcuni
percorsi in Valtellina (sentiero Valtellina/ del sole/terrazzamenti).
Quardando altre relazioni sembra un problema abbastanza diffuso.
Non esiste proprio un tool che dia una 'sgrossata' ai problemi di
ordinamento? Un tool che segnali le relazioni afflitte dal problema?
Attualmente il modo più veloce che ho trovato è quardare il grafico
altimetrico in waymarkedtrail.

Il 06 nov 2017 1:54 PM, "Damjan Gerl"  ha scritto:

La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché mancano
dei pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando josm,
aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare in
automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
Inoltre per le tue domande:
1.) No
2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il
tuo changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà
aggiornata.


Damjan


-- Original Header ---

>From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  :
Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
>
> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-
835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]<
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193>
>
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso
Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ (??7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free
to use under an open license.
>
>
>
> Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni sono
state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
>
> Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
>
> Ora sorgono alcune domande:
>
> 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
>
> 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere
alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
>
>
> Grazie
>
> Angelo
>

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Re: [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[Damjan Gerl]

La 7607193 la vedo ok. Anche la 7700942 è ok. La 6474351 no, perché mancano dei 
pezzi e le way non sono ordinate. Puoi metterla a posto usando josm, 
aggiungendo i pezzi mancanti e mettendo in ordine le way (si può fare in 
automatico dal editor delle relation on josm).
Inoltre per le tue domande:
1.) No
2.) Se vuoi salvare le tue modifiche devi confermare e caricare in osm il tuo 
changeset come per tutti gli altri oggetti, la relazione verrà aggiornata.


Damjan


-- Original Header ---

From  : "angelo mornata" angelo.morn...@hotmail.it
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Mon, 6 Nov 2017 11:39:30 +
Subject : [Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193
> 
> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]
> 
> OpenStreetMap | Relation: ??Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso 
> Nero-Rifugio Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
> (??7607193‬)
> www.openstreetmap.org
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to 
> use under an open license.
> 
> 
> 
> Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni sono 
> state spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".
> 
> Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)
> 
> Ora sorgono alcune domande:
> 
> 1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?
> 
> 2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere 
> alcune diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?
> 
> 
> Grazie
> 
> Angelo
> 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Rob Nickerson]

Mike wrote:

> A typical code is "PB|SP29|4/1"

Be warned, this is not the format that Pembrokeshire use on the pdf scans
on their website. It seems to be GIS data only and may be a format Barry
made.

PB is "Pembrokeshire"!

As Pembrokeshire don't use parish names I'd go for prow_ref="FP SP29/4/1"
assuming this is a footpath.

Thanks,
Rob



On 6 Nov 2017 12:30 p.m., "Rob Nickerson"  wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I think the point was that nobody has a common format. Some LAs use a
> different style when they refer to the same path in the definitive
> statement when compared to the GIS data.
>
> Of course we can manipulate OGL data. That's included in the licence. If
> we do change then it should be obvious to the LA what we mean if we speak
> with them.
>
> I will be sticking with the wiki for any I map as this has been previously
> discussed and has therefore grown traction according to taginfo.
>
> For Leicestershire it seems to be an obvious change: they don't include
> Parish so just don't include it. So I'd map prow_ref="FP J16" as an example.
>
> P.s. I thought folks usually don't like to add third party database
> references to OSM. Hence we came to an agreement of how prow_ref should be
> *constructed* based on OGL data (not just a copy of one of the third party
> attribute values).
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
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[Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Rob Nickerson]

Dave,

I think the point was that nobody has a common format. Some LAs use a
different style when they refer to the same path in the definitive
statement when compared to the GIS data.

Of course we can manipulate OGL data. That's included in the licence. If we
do change then it should be obvious to the LA what we mean if we speak with
them.

I will be sticking with the wiki for any I map as this has been previously
discussed and has therefore grown traction according to taginfo.

For Leicestershire it seems to be an obvious change: they don't include
Parish so just don't include it. So I'd map prow_ref="FP J16" as an example.

P.s. I thought folks usually don't like to add third party database
references to OSM. Hence we came to an agreement of how prow_ref should be
*constructed* based on OGL data (not just a copy of one of the third party
attribute values).

Thanks,
Rob
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Ce n'est pas faute d'avoir voulu négocier avec lui et d'avoir déjà pris en
compte depuis longtemps les limites de son engin... qu'il ne veut pas
toucher du tout.
Il dit n'avoir pas le temps de le corriger, mais au lieu de corriger
manuellement les erreurs produites par son outil (qu'il veut maintenir tout
seul) en faisant une simple relecture du résultat sachant que l'outil se
plante à chaque fois depuis des mois (et pas du tout à cause de "moi" parce
que justement j'ai pris soin de lui éviter la plupart des erreurs), il a
voulu faire une correction mineure à un endroit qui de toute façon ne
marchait pas non plus ailleurs.

D'où d'autres préconisations comme le fait de devoir rajouter des virgules
après une ponctuation ou le fait de vouloir supprimer des liens dans les
descriptions ou les faire pointer nulle part (liens rouges).
Il aurait du reconnaître que s'il ne peut pas corriger son outil, il devait
alors corriger les résultats produits (ce qui ne lui aurait de toute façon
pas coûté plus cher, même en temps).

J'ai fait de très nombreux pas dans sa direction à condition de ne pas
casser le reste. Il y a eu une proposition intelligente faite il y a
longtemps (les microformats, faits pour ça et bien documentés). Je lui ai
donné les exemples détaillés, Mais je n'ai pas pu aller au bout de la
démarche (donc impossibilité de mieux détailler les microformats sans
casser complètement son outil propriétaire qu'il ne documente pas du tout
en fait et dont il ne veut pas reconnaitre les limites). Des parseurs de
wikicode corrects il en existe (dont le Pywiki largement utilisé aussi sur
les wikis de Wikimedia: en lecture seule il n'y a aucun besoin
d'autorisation pour l'utiliser). La syntaxe de marquage  MediaWiki ce n'est
pas moi lqui l'ai inventée, mais son outil se planterait de la même façon
si c'était du Markdown, ou même seulement du HTML brut (il suffit de voir
qu'il en reconnait pas non plus la balise "small" qu'il interprète comme du
texte.

En fait il voudrait que le calendrier ne soit qu'un fichier texte CSV, ce
qu'il n'a jamais été (et le priverait de tous les liens qu'il voudrait
pourtant afficher). Il voudrait qu'il y ait des noms de ville et un pays
mais rien d'autre (alors même que c'est souvent nécessaire de préciser
mieux, un nom de ville est souvent ambigu). De plus le calendrier a
toujours eu des événements localisés non spécifiquement dans une ville, et
parfois pour plusieurs pays (à cause de ça on a du rajouter un pseudo-champ
"monde" et même parfois une pseudo-ville et les rendre visibles, ou souvent
de les répéter.

Si j'avais voulu faire plus propre, j'aurais créé un modèle séparant les
champs mais introduit beaucoup moins de flexibilité dans la présentation
(nombre et position des liens) et encore plus de difficultés pour
géolicaliser les évènements. Tout a été documenté (en conservant tout ce
qui était utilisé dans le passé et surtout sans casser non plus les reste
du wiki là où deux modèles sont utilisés pour la date et l'icone, pour
d'autres calendriers ou pour des tableaux de données ayant des
présentations assez différentes).

Ce n'est pas simple du tout de concilier. Mais j'ai fait déjà beaucoup
d'effort (et depuis longtemps) pour tenir compte de son outil en lui
évitant pas mal de charge de travail qu'il en veut pas ou ne sait pas faire
(et pour lequel il n'a donné à personne d'autre de moyens de l'aider
puisqu'il maintient son outil fermé). Je ne peux pas y faire grand chose de
plus.

Il ne peut pas dire qu'il n'y a pas eu de conciliation. De plus il n'a même
jamais tenté de proposer lui aussi quelque chose ou d'expérimenter une
autre façon de procéder avec une page de tests.

Quant à l'argument de "modestie" que tu évoques, c'est non fondé. Même ceux
qui ont tenté de suivre ses propos (sans vérifier) ont même retiré leur
soutien public à son initiative affiché trop tôt. Tout s'est fait en fait
sur des listes détournées. J'ai reçu énormément beaucoup plus de soutiens
que de critiques même s'il reste quelques irréductibles sur les doigts
d'une seule main, qui vont s'en tenir à un détail infime et surtout ne pas
vouloir voir tout le reste:

Le wiki est largement plus ouvert qu'il ne l'a été il y a quelques années,
et permet à beaucoup plus de monde de s'y retrouver pour des projets plus
diversifiés et qu'on peut trouver facilement. Et s'il est maintenant mieux
documenté cela ne s'est pas fait sans patient effort et des progrès par
toutes petites étapes progressives qui ont maintenu le maximum de choses,
et gardé l'ouverture. La prise en compte des besoins particuliers à chaque
langue ou écriture est aussi un fruit de ce patient effort (où avant tout
le monde se fichait pas mal du résultat et ne contrôlait en fait rien du
tout: c'était juste fait pour une publication immédiate et ensuite plus
aucune maintenance, avec un très fort biais pour uniquement l'anglais).



Le 6 novembre 2017 à 12:25, marc marc  a écrit :

> Ne pas confondre une personne et une 

Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Mike Evans]

On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 11:51:48 +
Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On 6 November 2017 11:13:23 GMT+00:00, Dave F  
> wrote:
> >
> >On 05/11/2017 10:42, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:  
> >> On 4 November 2017 at 17:49, Dave F  
> >Are any LAs, that you've looked at, not including parish codes within 
> >their refs?  
> 
> Leicestershire don't use parish codes, they use a letter number format i.e. 
> J93. 
> 
SNIP


> 
> Phil (trigpoint) 

Pembrokeshire doesn't either. A typical code is "PB|SP29|4/1" No parish, just a 
code representing...something.

Mike Evans (lostmike)


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[François Lacombe]

Le 6 novembre 2017 à 12:25, marc marc  a écrit :

>
> - c'est que l'énorme énergie, connaissance et travail accompli est
> entaché par le manque de compromis (cfr modif de la page wiki des
> langues en France, cfr problème répétitif des commentaires de modifs,
> cfr l'argumentaire parfois indigeste) et de modestie (en cas d'avis
> différent, c'est toujours l'autre qui a tord).
>

Je ne peux que plussoyer

Cf ce qui s'est passé pour Quick OSM fix service
A ce que j'ai pu lire, la bonne volonté de celui qui a proposé ça s'est
heurté à un mur

François
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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Dave F]

On 05/11/2017 12:42, Rob Nickerson wrote:

>I recommended BY for consistency with the other two-letter
>abbreviations (FP, BR, RB) that were more universal.

+1

Given that there is little internal consistency within each LA and 
that these are rarely even marked on the ground, my preference would 
be to stick with the standard as described on the wiki unless this 
does not fit with a LA.


"internal consistency within each LA" has no relevance to OSM. A 
'standard' isn't a standard if it *only* relates within OSM.




Finally, I understand that FP etc can be determined from the 
designation tag but I do not see this as a reason to omit the data. It 
is useful to the end user, just as the M in ref=M1 is for motorways!!


You miss the point. 'M1' *is* the ref issued by Highways England & is 
added to OSM as such. We should do the same for prow_refs as issued by 
LAs (even if they each have a different format).


What the wiki says is the equivalent of manipulating 'M1' so it reads 
something like 'Yorkshire/Rob/MW1'




So, in summary, can't we just stick to what we previously agreed

Has it been discussed anywhere other than the one in 2013?


and diverge only when this clearly doesn't work for a participial LA 
(or which I expect that to be very rare).


The wiki manipulation recommendation doesn't work for any LA (or indeed, 
anybody) as it's unique to OSM.


Cheers
DaveF

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[Talk-it] JOSM relazioni spezzate

[angelo mornata]

http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7607193

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap | Relation: ‪Chiareggio-Rifugio Longoni-Alpe Sasso Nero-Rifugio 
Palù- Alta Via 4° tappa‬ 
(‪7607193‬)
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.



Dopo l'ultimo /penultimo aggiornamento di josm, le vecchie relazioni sono state 
spezzate indicando alcunui tratti con "Incompleto".

Su OSM le relazioni sono correte e attive. (allego un esempio)

Ora sorgono alcune domande:

1° Le relazioni si possono ricostruire in automatico?

2° Se entro in queste relazioni con Josm, e voglio completare/aggiungere alcune 
diciture cosa succede al momento della conferma?


Grazie

Angelo
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[JB]

Le 06/11/2017 à 08:03, Christian Quest a écrit :

QA...

C'est bon, le rendu QA est de retour et en turbo !
Le calcul des premiers zoom (6 à 8) ne prends désormais que quelques 
secondes :)


C'est beau de voir qu'il est de moins en moins coloré... les points 
magenta indiquant des routes potentiellement manquantes se sont bien 
réduits en 4 ans !
Il y a des nids à dégommer en Normandie, Aquitaine, PACA et au sud 
d'Orléans...

Tu peux rappeler la page pour le voir depuis un navigateur, hors JOSM ?
J'avais souvenir que c'était du coté de tile.openstreetmap.fr, mais ça 
n'a pas l'air d'être ça.

JB.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[marc marc]

Ne pas confondre une personne et une communauté.

ce qui est franchement dommage :

- c'est de ne pas avoir réussit à mettre un peau dans son vin, ce qui a 
conduit à l'abandon du mainteneur du calendrier dans osmweekly... alors 
qu'à la base, il demandait juste qu'on maintienne une façon non parfaite 
dans le wiki mais qui fonctionnait, le temps d'améliorer l'outil. 
aujourd'hui la page calendrier du wiki... est parfaitement inutilisée 
dans osmweekly !
Si au moins il y avait une proposition de patch... cela aurait évité
de casser l'existant... même si l'existant n'était pas parfait.
la lib est sur github, suffit de s'y plonger.
Moi le niveau de "perfection" me dépasse largement.

- c'est que l'énorme énergie, connaissance et travail accompli est 
entaché par le manque de compromis (cfr modif de la page wiki des 
langues en France, cfr problème répétitif des commentaires de modifs, 
cfr l'argumentaire parfois indigeste) et de modestie (en cas d'avis 
différent, c'est toujours l'autre qui a tord).

J'espère qu'il en sortira quelque chose de positif...

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ...

[Richard]

On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 09:11:34PM +0100, Markus wrote:
> Hallo Martin,
> 
> > ja, das es hierbei um nationalsozialistisch/faschistisch motivierte, 
> > imperialistische Namensschöpfungen geht ist ja unbestritten, was ich meinte 
> > war, dass das eben auch ein Teil der Geschichte ist.
> > Grundsätzlich gibt es im Kontext von Landeroberungen durch Krieg auch oft 
> > Umbenennungen, nur weil man Gewalt nicht gut findet kann man das m.E. 
> > trotzdem nicht ignorieren 
> 
> Richtig.
> 
> Aber bei vier Problemen sollten wir reagieren:
> 
> 1. Wenn jemand alte Kriegsnamen heute in OSM in name:de einträgt,
>dann ist das falsch.
>Richtig ist: old_name:de mit Angabe über die Zeitspanne.
>Das wäre entsprechend zu korrigieren.

stimme ich zu - würde das aber nicht an dem "Kriegsnamen" festmachen sondern
sagen, daß in name:de Namen gehören die z.Zt. allgemein geläufig sind.
Sollte im Endeffekt (fast?) das gleiche rauskommen, aber allgemeingültige Regeln
betrachte idR als nützlicher als politisch-moralisch motivierte Regeln.
 
> 3. Wenn jemand stumpf Namen in andere Sprachen "übersetzt"
>(weil name:xy "noch keinen Eintrag hat")
>z.B. Schwarzwald in "black forest"
>oder Great Canyon in "Grosse Schlucht"
>dann ist das m.E. einfach nur dumm.

das Beispiel Schwarzwald ist wohl nicht so gut gewählt - Black Forest 
und Foret Noir sind m.W. z.Zt. geläufige Namen in :en und :fr (wegen
Kuckucksuhren und Apfelstrudel:) gehören also (laut meiner Regel zu 1) 
auch Eingetragen.

> 4. Wenn jemand lokale Namen in anderen Schriftsystemen abbildet,
>damit Menschen die die ursprünglichen Schrift nicht lesen können,
>wenigstens den Namen lautmalerisch nachbilden können,
>dann macht das m.E. Sinn.
>Leider haben wir m.W. noch keine tags für Schriften.
>(und m.W. auch noch kein HowTo im Wiki)

gibt es schon einen Sprachcode für "phonetic"? Wobei es davon auch viele
Varianten gibt. 
In vielen Fällen gibt es sogar eine offizielle phonetische Transkription,
die sollte man bestimmt  eintragen.

Richard

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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-11-06 11:40 GMT+01:00 liste_girarsi :

> Il 6 Novembre 2017 07:58:38 CET, "demon.box"  ha
> scritto:
> >Per esempio sotto windows che client potrei usare?
> >
> >Grazie, ciao
> >--enrico
>
> io uso thunderbird su Linux, ma ha i binari anche per Windows.
>


+1, conosco chi usa thunderbird su windows e si trova bene. E' abbstanza
configurabile.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Proposed Import of West Mids VMS Locations

[Brian Prangle]

Thanks for this Rob

I might parse the short description to split the identifiers and
type_description

I've asked Andy Radford in BCC for an explanation of acronyms etc

As for placing as nodes on the highway - I'm torn - I can see why it would
be useful for data users but it doesn't always indicate the physical
location ( cf bus stops and speed cameras). But if we don't place them as
nodes we'd need to know which are gantry located and which are roadside
which the data doesn't indicate

Rgds

brian

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> There seems to be a few types of data in there:- BCC, Highways England and
> Car Parking signs. I'm not sure if these *need* treating separately but it
> may be worth doing so anyway. The car parks should be small enough to start
> with and will enable us to get a good grip of the data.
>
> For short description the bits that seems useful is the sign size (e.g.
> 3x18) which I assume is rows and characters. In "M6/6054A" the M6 is
> obviously the road and I believe the "A" indicates which side of the road
> it is on (see: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:carriageway_ref ).
> Do you know what the "6054" means? Wait... found it! It looks like it is
> the asset reference for the structure that the sign is attached to. See for
> example:
>
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4905635,-1.7319734,3a,15y,
> 288.18h,88.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgldMiJ0rpLi97FRlvR32CQ!
> 2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
> If all the motorway or trunk ones are like this then may put the
> "M6/6054A" bit in a tag such as gantry_ref=.
>
> Do we know what "SPICE" means? I seem to recall hearing it before but
> cannot remember. What about "MS3"/"MS4"?
>
> Finally, if we add these, do they get mapped to the side of the road or as
> a node on the road? Gut feeling is that it as a node so that it is more
> useful for data users.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rob*
>
> On 5 November 2017 at 16:15, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I'd like to open a discussion here first before opening it to talkgb and
>> talkimport
>>
>> The raw data can be found here
>> 
>>
>> It covers the West Midlands and parts of the M1 and M69 also
>>
>> Licence is OGL
>>
>> I've edited the data to give lat/lons and I've added operator tags based
>> on Motorway/Trunk being Highways England and everything else BCC.
>> I've put a copy on Dropbox
>> 
>> so you can review the data.
>> I'd welcome feedback on what to tag the Short Description column
>>
>>
>> Issues:
>>
>> VMS tagging is a mess so I'll no doubt have to wade through a tagging
>> proposal. The most sensible approach was discussed here
>> 
>> I've not checked against against existing OSM data which I suspect is
>> patchy and given the tagging mess difficult to do a taginfo or ovepass query
>>
>> What do you all think? Is it worth pursuing?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Determiner la projection d une carte

[Nicolas Moyroud]

Euh ben je veux pas dire mais reprojeter avec gdal en utilisant les 
codes epsg y'a pas plus simple ! Exemple pour passer du Lambert93 au 
lat/lon WGS84 :


gdaltransform -s_srs EPSG:2453 -t_srs EPSG:4326

Et il n'y a pas besoin de connaître les définitions compliquées des 
systèmes de projection déjà supportés par gdal. Gdal c'est bon, 
mangez-en ;-)


Nicolas

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Philippe Verdy]

Le 6 novembre 2017 à 07:06, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Ma réalité est en effet distordue depuis quelques années, grâce à un
> filtre d'email :)
>
> J'ai retrouvé cette semaine la logorrhée de cet "éminent" contributeur sur
> le slack HOT avec ce ton toujours aussi affirmatif pour un contenu bien
> souvent erroné.
>

Voilà encore une affirmation accusatrice et insultante qui refuse de
prendre en compte la réalité et se cache par des canaux détournés.
Qu'as-tu relevé sur Slack ? Rien du tout. Alors que sans rien leur
demander, je n'y ai eu que des soutiens. Je penses que tu as juste un
parti-pris personnel et que c'est ton "filtre" qui déforme les choses.
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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[liste_girarsi]

Il 6 Novembre 2017 07:58:38 CET, "demon.box"  ha scritto:
>Per esempio sotto windows che client potrei usare?
>
>Grazie, ciao
>--enrico

io uso thunderbird su Linux, ma ha i binari anche per Windows. 


--simone girardelli--
##
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suspension du décret prévoyant l'ouverture des données de transport

[Florian LAINEZ]

Merci François pour la news.
Petit détail : Jungle est un outil, sa communauté c'est vous ! Donc ne
comptez pas sur Jungle Bus pour cartographier votre ville, à vous de vous
en emparer. On continue bien sûr à faire évoluer nos outils pour vous y
aider ...

Le 6 novembre 2017 à 10:13, François Lacombe  a
écrit :

> Bonjour à tous,
>
> Lecture du lundi matin:
> https://www.nextinpact.com/news/105542-le-gouvernement-
> suspend-decret-sur-mise-en-open-data-donnees-transport.htm
>
> En résumé: on a pas le cul sorti des ronces.
> Puisqu'il n'y a que des solutions, JungleBus est à notre disposition pour
> faire pencher la balance dans l'autre sens.
>
> Ce seront mes seules remarques
>
>
> Bonne journée
>
> François
>
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>
>


-- 

*Florian Lainez*
@overflorian 
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 5. Nov 2017, at 23:18, SteMo  wrote:
> 
> Aber die Bahnhöfe/Orte heißen nun mal heute nicht mehr so, sondern anders.
> 
> (Istanbul heißt nicht mehr Byzanz, Kolkata nicht mehr Kalkutta, Sri
> Lanka nicht mehr Ceylon, Chemnitz nicht mehr Karl-Marx-Stadt,
> Willly-Brandt-Straße nicht mehr Ost-West-Straße (HH), etc.pp.)



ja eben, das sind alles Orte die heute als Eigenschaft haben, früher diese 
Namen gehabt zu haben (old_name).

Als Randbemerkung: Kalkutta gibt es eigentlich schon noch, auch wenn das 
vielleicht nicht mehr der offizielle Name ist.

Der Reichstag in Berlin heißt z.B. auch noch Reichstag, obwohl sich da jetzt 
der Bundestag versammelt (und Bundestag auch ein anderer Name für den Ort ist).

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Nicolas Moyroud]

Ma réalité est en effet distordue depuis quelques années, grâce à un 
filtre d'email :)
Tiens on a le même ! Pour rendre service à d'autres on pourrait presque 
en faire un module Thunderbird, ce serait plus pratique... ;-)



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Re: [Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017

[Mikoláš Štrajt]

Zapsal jsem se do tabulky.

Tak a teď na to ještě nezapomenout.

--
Severák
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Marián Kyral 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 6. 11. 2017 10:06:23
Předmět: [Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017
"Ahoj,
poslední letošní kvartální pivo se bude konat přesně za měsíc, ve středu
6.12.

Aktualizoval jsem wiki stránku https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Kvart%
C3%A1ln%C3%AD_pivo

Svou účast prosím potvrďte v google doc tabulce: https://docs.google.com/
spreadsheets/d/12zGtW414R9se_g_87FdmpHj2B6xO1gf5mG94avTmFb4/edit#gid=
150217035

Tentokrát se budu snažit, abych byl v Ostravě, tak se to snad po delší době
opět podaří.

Marián
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[OSM-talk-fr] Suspension du décret prévoyant l'ouverture des données de transport

[François Lacombe]

Bonjour à tous,

Lecture du lundi matin:
https://www.nextinpact.com/news/105542-le-gouvernement-suspend-decret-sur-mise-en-open-data-donnees-transport.htm

En résumé: on a pas le cul sorti des ronces.
Puisqu'il n'y a que des solutions, JungleBus est à notre disposition pour
faire pencher la balance dans l'autre sens.

Ce seront mes seules remarques


Bonne journée

François
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[Talk-cz] Poslední letošní kvartální pivo Q4/2017

[Marián Kyral]

Ahoj,
poslední letošní kvartální pivo se bude konat přesně za měsíc, ve středu
6.12.

Aktualizoval jsem wiki stránku https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Kvart%
C3%A1ln%C3%AD_pivo

Svou účast prosím potvrďte v google doc tabulce: https://docs.google.com/
spreadsheets/d/12zGtW414R9se_g_87FdmpHj2B6xO1gf5mG94avTmFb4/edit#gid=
150217035

Tentokrát se budu snažit, abych byl v Ostravě, tak se to snad po delší době
opět podaří.

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Re: [OSM-ja] [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだです。

> muramotoさん
> Osm wiki says `name:ja_kana` is defined as "Japanese name written in
Hiragana characters", but it is against BCP47, so `name:ja-Hira` would be
better choice.
> Then mechanical edit from `name:ja_kana` to `name:ja-Hira` would be
acceptable.
> Also there is another Japanese character "Katakana", so `name:ja-Kana`
should be defined too.

+1 to this idea.
If the mechanical edit tool can make it happen, let's do it.
We have no objections In Korea now, so we may one step further!

なるほど、理にかなっていると思います。
特に反対意見も無いようなので、もしツールの側で対応できるのであれば、一緒に実施いただくほうがよいですね。

韓国のほうは切り替えに大きな異論無いようです。
作業実施に向けて、次の段階に進めましょう！





2017年10月31日 20:00 tomoya muramoto :

> `name:ja_kana`はひらがな表記の日本語名称として定義されていますが、BCP47に従っていないため、`name:ja-Hira`が望ましい(?)とosm
> wikiにあります。
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Key:name:ja_kana
>
> そのため、`name:ja_rm`を一括変更するのであれば、あわせて`name:ja_kana`から`name:ja-
> Hira`に一括変更してしまったほうがよいと考えます。
> (`name:ja_kana`にカタカナが記入されている状況は想定していませんでした)
>
> ついでに、`name:ja-Kana`を新しく「カタカナ表記の日本語名称」として定義してしまえば、BCP47日本語関係は全体をカバーできるので、
> 後戻りがなくてよいかと。
> (`name:ja_kana`の一括変更時にHiraとKanaに振り分けることは可能かもし
> れませんが、ぜんぶHiraに入れてしまってよいと思います。)
>
> Osm wiki says `name:ja_kana` is defined as "Japanese name written in
> Hiragana characters", but it is against BCP47, so `name:ja-Hira` would be
> better choice.
>
> Then mechanical edit from `name:ja_kana` to `name:ja-Hira` would be
> acceptable.
>
> Also there is another Japanese character "Katakana", so `name:ja-Kana`
> should be defined too.
>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
Satoshi IIDA
mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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Re: [Talk-it] Import Civici Valle d'Aosta

[Rallysta74]

Direi, visto lo username, che si tratti della Centrale Unica del Soccorso -
Protezione Civile Valle d'Aosta...



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Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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