Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

what I write below is my own opinion and not that of the OSMF board,
just as Mikel's opinion is his own and not that of the OSMF board.

On 01.03.19 02:51, Mikel Maron wrote:
> These are norms not rules. ODbL doesn't specify how attribution needs to
> happen, or anything about equivalence with other attribution. So even if
> OSMF were to take on enforcement, there's nothing to specific to
> enforce. (And I recommend we drop the whole license shaming shenanigans
> -- we should accept that OSM has won and we are not the underdogs any
> more. ) 

You make three points here, one that there's no rules we could enforce,
and then you say even if we could shame people into adhering to rules
that we cannot enforce, we shouldn't do that either, and that the reason
for this largesse was that "we have won".

I disagree in all three points.

1. I think that we can set up rules - not mere "recommendations" - that
we can enforce.

2. I think that we should shame people into following our rules if they
don't do it voluntarily.

3. I think that we should be firm in asserting our place in the geo data
world, and as long as other players in the field use intellectual
property regulations to their advantage, we should too. As long as
Google only give you their maps if you in turn acquiesce to being
tracked, so should we only give people our maps if they are willing to
follow our rules. This has nothing to do with "having won".

> We may not like that reality, but that's the underlying legal situation.

Frankly, I wouldn't believe you even if you were a lawyer. But you aren't!

> We can certainly recommend a better way. And that recommendation can
> only be formulated through the OSMF

We would have to find a way to exclude corporate interests from
formulating that recommendation though, or we'd be like a supermarket
that lets its customers set the price. I.e. no board members or working
group members working for any business affected by a decision should
participate, and neither should the "advisory board" on which corporate
interests are represented.

The fact that the resulting sub-group of the OSMF would be quite small
is food for thought!

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Mikel Maron]

These are norms not rules. ODbL doesn't specify how attribution needs to 
happen, or anything about equivalence with other attribution. So even if OSMF 
were to take on enforcement, there's nothing to specific to enforce. (And I 
recommend we drop the whole license shaming shenanigans -- we should accept 
that OSM has won and we are not the underdogs any more. ) Sure we could get 
legal, but imagine the number of legal opinions about what "reasonably 
calculated" means. 
We may not like that reality, but that's the underlying legal situation. We can 
certainly recommend a better way. And that recommendation can only be 
formulated through the OSMF; a mailing list discussion will not lead to a legal 
decision, though it's an interesting pulse on the topic. afaik the LWG is 
actually thinking about updating the guidance to modern day usage, and welcome 
that effort. 

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Thursday, February 28, 2019, 8:03:23 PM EST, Greg Troxel 
 wrote:  
 
 Paul Norman via talk  writes:

> On 2019-02-28 2:35 p.m., Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>
>> In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service"
>> providers have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an
>> click-through 'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:
>>
>> https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
>> https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG
>
> In my mind what makes these examples particularly egregious is how
> they find room for image logos. If there's room for a Mapbox or Tomtom
> logo like in the images above, there's room for (c) OpenStreetMap
>
> With maps like this, I would expect a "reasonably calculated"
> attribution to have OSM with at least the prominence of other
> companies.

Agreed.  The notion that there isn't room does not hold up to scrutiny.

I tend towards OSM being more aggressive about insisting that the
attribution rules be followed.

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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Greg Troxel]

Paul Norman via talk  writes:

> On 2019-02-28 2:35 p.m., Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>
>> In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service"
>> providers have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an
>> click-through 'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:
>>
>> https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
>> https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG
>
> In my mind what makes these examples particularly egregious is how
> they find room for image logos. If there's room for a Mapbox or Tomtom
> logo like in the images above, there's room for (c) OpenStreetMap
>
> With maps like this, I would expect a "reasonably calculated"
> attribution to have OSM with at least the prominence of other
> companies.

Agreed.   The notion that there isn't room does not hold up to scrutiny.

I tend towards OSM being more aggressive about insisting that the
attribution rules be followed.

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Re: [talk-au] Sign detections from OpenStreetCam

[Daniel O'Connor]

Ah, nice - and compared to the mapillary ones, has picked out school
zone/hours/etc very well (at least in the example provided)

Will be great when https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4851 gets
into ID; possibly https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/5666 gets
sorted out too.



On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 4:14 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> You will remember from my previous messages to this list that
> OpenStreetCam held a competition to collect imagery in Australia (as well
> as in New Zealand). The winners have their gift cards, but the community as
> a whole gains as well. Our map team used the contributed imagery to
> generate a large enough training set for our sign detection platform to
> learn 45+ (and growing) Australia-specific sign types. You can use the
> detected signs to map in JOSM (iD in the future) if you install the
> OpenStreetCam plugin.
>
> New imagery captured will be analyzed for signs almost immediately. If you
> go to your own trips you can click on the ‘detections’ tab to see results.
> Example: https://openstreetcam.org/details/999263/314/detections
>
> Note that none of this data will be added to OSM automatically — it is
> available for the community to use.
>
> Here’s a blog post with some more detail:
> http://blog.improveosm.org/en/2019/02/openstreetcam-detect-signs-in-australia-newzealand/
>
>
> I hope that you will keep contributing to OSC to improve coverage and
> generate more of this useful mapping data.
>
> Happy mapping,
>
> Martijn
> ___
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>
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK: Talent Directory success & working with National Trust Inbox x

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

For those not signed up to the OSM UK newsletter (why not?, sign up here
[1], archive here [2]), please see the latest edition below. This includes
news on our talent directory for those looking for paid or volunteer OSM
work: Andy provided some training in Manchester and next week we hope to
share an opportunity to work with Transport for London on a paid scoping
project which has a good chance of growing into something bigger. If you're
not already on our talent directory and think this sounds of interest,
please join today [3].

P.S. We'll get an article out about the TfL work within the next few weeks
so everyone is aware of it. If you want to pick up the scoping project
please join the talent directory to receive the tender process documents.

[1] https://osmuk.org/join-our-newsletter/
[2] https://osmuk.org/newsletter-archive/
[3] https://osmuk.org/join-our-talent-directory/

Thanks,
*Rob*

---
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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Andy Mabbett]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 at 22:35, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:

> "We require that you use the credit “© OpenStreetMap contributors”...
> For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner
> of the map."

28 characters. There are many cases, such as mobile phones, where -
depending on user settings - that's either going to be too small to be
readable, or so big it obscures what people need to see.

> Full mea culpa: the /copyright page says "should" rather than "must"
> purely because I wrote the page, I'm British and I, we, talk like that

RFC 2119 is (or would have been) your friend:

   https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt

> So we need to decide what our response is to web/in-app maps that do not
> provide attribution in the manner requested by osm.org/copyright. This
> response might be:

> e) or many other options... fill in your suggestion here :)

f) We move to PD / CC0 licensing.



> There has been a lot of chatter over recent years about this issue but
> the issue has never really broken through.

Perhaps because the community (that is, the mapping community, not the
mailing list community) just doesn't care that much - which suggests
your options a or b would apply?


--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of OSM URLs in combination with proprietary set of URLs

[Kathleen Lu via legal-talk]

Hello Gian and Sandro,
IMO, from an ODbL it is definitely okay or you to extract URLs and crawl
them, and publish the crawled data (though you'd need to attribute OSM for
the URLs).
But if you are combining OSM URLs with proprietary URLs, and then
publishing both, then there's the question of whether you are making a
derivative database that would mandate sharing back your proprietary URLs
(making them available under a compatible license to be added into OSM).
Your use case is not really a map one, so it's a rather odd scenario. I
think the safest course would be to make the rest of the URLs available
under a compatible license (e.g., ODbL).
Best,
Kathleen


On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 6:27 AM Brunner Gian  wrote:

> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
>
>
> Our names are Gian Brunner and Sandro Santoro, we are Students in Systems
> Engineering at NTB Buchs (Switzerland).
>
> At the moment we are working on our Bachelor thesis and have a request
> about using OSM data.
>
>
>
> Our Case: We would like to extract URLs from OSM data, combine them with
> other URLs from a proprietary source, download and crawl sites from both
> groups of URLs, extract menu information and publish it together with the
> URLs (In the Future we might provide this service commercially).
>
> Is it legal to use OSM data for this purpose?
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance and best Regards,
>
> Gian Brunner & Sandro Santoro
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Warin]

On 01/03/19 09:50, Paul Norman via talk wrote:

On 2019-02-28 2:35 p.m., Richard Fairhurst wrote:


In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service" 
providers have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an 
click-through 'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:


https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG



In my mind what makes these examples particularly egregious is how 
they find room for image logos. If there's room for a Mapbox or Tomtom 
logo like in the images above, there's room for (c) OpenStreetMap


With maps like this, I would expect a "reasonably calculated" 
attribution to have OSM with at least the prominence of other 
companies. hat is a good thing on a small screen.


OSMand drops all the symbols from its map display when your not using 
the screen - maximising the view of the map.

That is a good thing on a small screen.

Some apps start with an introductory screen (a 'splash' screen?) while 
they boot. That might be a good place to have the OSM attribution?
Possibly there needs to be a selection of OSM attributions that the user 
can select from?


---

There are certain legal words that are used to enforce action. The word 
'should' in not one of them.
From my recollection the words 'shall' and 'will' are clearer choices, 
one word for the customer, another for the provider.


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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Paul Norman via talk]

On 2019-02-28 2:35 p.m., Richard Fairhurst wrote:


In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service" 
providers have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an 
click-through 'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:


https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG



In my mind what makes these examples particularly egregious is how they 
find room for image logos. If there's room for a Mapbox or Tomtom logo 
like in the images above, there's room for (c) OpenStreetMap


With maps like this, I would expect a "reasonably calculated" 
attribution to have OSM with at least the prominence of other companies.



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[OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Richard Fairhurst]

Hi all,

In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service" providers 
have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an click-through 
'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:


https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG

(This should be obvious but I am in no means meaning to pick on Mapbox 
or Apple here - as anyone who knows me will testify, I have the utmost 
respect both for Mapbox's technical chops, their ability to iterate on a 
compelling product and their success in building the biggest mapping 
platform using OSM data; and I've been an Apple fanboy since my first 
Mac IIsi back in, erk, 1992. They're just the two that sprang to mind, 
bearing in mind that as someone that old, these social networks about 
photos and stuff are way too modern for me.)


It should also be said that many providers - the majority - provide 
attribution in compliance with our policy at osm.org/copyright, i.e. 
showing attribution in the corner of the map, and in many cases 
generously going beyond with "Improve this map" pages; and that some 
providers will do great things like this much of the time and resort to 
"(i)" or "About" only part of the time.


The policy, introduced with the changeover to the ODbL, says:

"We require that you use the credit “© OpenStreetMap contributors”... 
For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner 
of the map."


There then follows an example screenshot of a map of Charlbury (woo) 
with a credit in the corner. The OSM Foundation Legal FAQ is pretty much 
the same 
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ#Where_to_put_it.3F).


Historically the aim of requiring attribution has been partly to thank 
contributors, and partly because it's a virtuous feedback loop. If you 
see a map and it's wrong or incomplete, seeing "(c) OpenStreetMap" in 
the corner shows you where the data comes from, so you can go and 
improve it. That way we get more contributors, the map gets better, it's 
more valuable to its consumers, so more people use it, so more people 
improve it... and so on.


The legal rationale is 4.3 in the Open Database Licence 
(https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html), and in 
particular "if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a 
notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make 
any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise 
exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the 
Database". The key phrase is "reasonably calculated" and our view in 
2012 was that, since the major mapping providers (Google, 
Navteq/Nokia/HERE, TomTom etc.) required and implemented on-screen 
attribution, "reasonably" meant that users would expect a credit to be 
provided in that way. The OSMF FAQ makes this explicit: "you should 
expect to credit OpenStreetMap in the same way and with the same 
prominence as would be expected by any other map supplier".


Full mea culpa: the /copyright page says "should" rather than "must" 
purely because I wrote the page, I'm British and I, we, talk like that 
(http://termcoord.eu/2016/08/the-truth-behind-british-impoliteness/ , 
especially the "I would suggest" line). It used to say "request" rather 
than "require" for the same reason. In retrospect I should have realised 
not everyone is British and we should really have hired a lawyer to 
review the page. I think that months in the trenches of the licence 
change had probably given us trench fever for things like that. Entirely 
my fault and I take full responsibility for it (but you know, it's so 
great not to have to write 500 monthly mails to legal-talk@ any more).


So we need to decide what our response is to web/in-app maps that do not 
provide attribution in the manner requested by osm.org/copyright. This 
response might be:


a) we are happy for attribution to be behind a credits screen and we 
will update our requirements to say so
b) we will informally tolerate attribution being behind a credits screen 
but we do not intend to update our requirements
c) we are not happy for attribution to be behind a credits screen and we 
will update our requirements to say so
d) we are not happy for attribution to be behind a credits screen and we 
will update our requirements to say so, and we will proactively seek out 
data consumers that contravene these requirements

e) or many other options... fill in your suggestion here :)

Ultimately this decision has to come from the community. The rights in 
OSM data, as the Contributor Terms makes clear, are held by the 
contributors. OSMF is "using and sublicensing" it, under the terms that 
you grant to OSMF, but you own the rights. OSMF is not able to license 
away the rights of mappers.


There has been a lot of chatter over recent years about this issue but 
the issue has never really broken through. Let's talk about it openly, 

[talk-au] Sign detections from OpenStreetCam

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

You will remember from my previous messages to this list that OpenStreetCam 
held a competition to collect imagery in Australia (as well as in New Zealand). 
The winners have their gift cards, but the community as a whole gains as well. 
Our map team used the contributed imagery to generate a large enough training 
set for our sign detection platform to learn 45+ (and growing) 
Australia-specific sign types. You can use the detected signs to map in JOSM 
(iD in the future) if you install the OpenStreetCam plugin.

New imagery captured will be analyzed for signs almost immediately. If you go 
to your own trips you can click on the ‘detections’ tab to see results. 
Example: https://openstreetcam.org/details/999263/314/detections 
 

Note that none of this data will be added to OSM automatically — it is 
available for the community to use.

Here’s a blog post with some more detail: 
http://blog.improveosm.org/en/2019/02/openstreetcam-detect-signs-in-australia-newzealand/
 

 

I hope that you will keep contributing to OSC to improve coverage and generate 
more of this useful mapping data.

Happy mapping, 

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Re: [Talk-de] Behindertenparkplätze und fee=*

[Helder Aguiar]

Hallo,

nur allgemein zu Behindertenparkplätzen:

Der Behindertenparkausweis gilt quasi "überall". Die Parkerleichterungen
gelten in Deutschland auf allen Parkplätzen und in eingeschränkten
Halteverboten.
Kostenlos werden die Parkhäuser nicht zwingend. Einige Parkhäuser bieten
dies an, aber das ist in der StVO nicht vorgeschrieben. (Der Flughafen
Köln/Bonn hat dies mal einige Zeit so gehandhabt)
Sind die Parkplätze/-häuser offen zugänglich darf man diese auch kostenfrei
nutzen (auch die "normalen" Parkplätze). Ist eine Zeit vorgeschrieben
(Parkscheibe) kann diese auch überschritten werden.
Ist jedoch der Behindertenparkplatz zeitlich eingeschränkt, dann gilt auch
dort eine Parkscheibenpflicht.
Parktickets müssen Besitzer eines Parkausweises auch keine ziehen. Auch
nicht für für normale Parkplätze.
Im eingeschränkten Halteverbot darf man bis zu drei Stunden parken
(Parkscheibe!), genauso wie auf Behindertenparkplätzen, die für andere
reserviert sind (diese sind meist mit einer Nummer versehen).

Bei geschlossenen Parkplätzen (Schranke oder allgemein private Parkplätze)
gelten die jeweiligen Regeln des Hauses, wie z. B. die kostenfreie Nutzung
des Parkplatzes. Zu diesen zählt auch der Supermarktparkplatz. Dort wird
man übrigens immer angepöbelt, wenn man auf dem Behindertenparkplatz steht,
egal, ob derjenige das darf oder nicht. ;)

Einfach zu taggen wäre das glaube ich nicht. Zumal auch noch international
nochmal ganz andere Regeln gelten. (z.B. in GB müssen Besitzer
ausländischer Parkausweise ein extra Schild mitführen...)

Für alle gilt aber: Es wird ein Behindertenparkausweis benötigt. Der
Schwerbehinderten- (auch der Schwerinordnung-) Ausweis reicht da nicht.

Liebe Grüße

Hélder

Am Di., 26. Feb. 2019 um 22:43 Uhr schrieb Richard :

> Hi,
>
> ich habe vor einiger Zeit die Seite
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_to_map_for_the_needs_of_people_with_disabilities
> angelegt und mir das konkrete mapping angeschaut.
>
> In Deutschland gilt soweit ich weiß, daß öffentliche Parkplätze/Parkhäuser
> usw. die
> normalerweise Gebührenpflichtig sind für Behinderte mit Ausweis kostenlos
> sind.. wird
> aber soweit ich sehen kann fast nirgendwo so getagt.
> In anderen Ländern gelten wohl andere Regelungen, für private Parkhäuser
> soviel ich
> weiß sowieso.. mit Länderspezifischen Defaults wäre es also vermutlich
> sehr schwierig
> zu handhaben.
>
> Solle man solche Fälle mit fee=yes+fee:disabled=no bzw mit der conditional
> Variante
> fee:conditional=yes + fee:conditional=no @ disabled;
> mappen?
>
> Richard
>
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hier könnte Werbung stehen - tut sie aber nicht

Ich entschuldige mich schonmal im voraus, wenn ich nicht alles in dieser ML
gelesen bekomme. Ein möglicher Grund können meine Filtereinstellungen sein:
Ich setzte jeden, der mehr Arbeit darin verschwendet andere Mitglieder
dieser Listen zu beleidigen oder haltloses rechtes (teilweise auch linkes)
Gedankengut äußert auf meine Ignorierliste und deren Mails werden ohne
Nachfrage auf meinem Mailserver gelöscht. Sollte (widererwarten) doch mal
nützlicher Inhalt darin befinden, bitte ich um Verständnis ,dass ich erst
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Re: [Talk-it] Osmose: gli edit non funzionano

[Andrea Albani]

Ho appena fatto una modifica ad un nodo [0] con l'editor integrato in
Osmose aggiungendo 2 tag e modificandone altri 2 senza riscontrare problemi.
Confermo che il changeset non viene chiuso immediatamente, neanche dopo
avere fatto logoff da Osmose e anche togliendo il flag dalla voce
"Riutilizza changeset" durante il salvataggio

Ciao

[0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1838212259




Il giorno gio 28 feb 2019 alle ore 11:26 Canfe News 
ha scritto:

> Ti ringrazio per la pronta risposta, ma non credo sia lì il problema.
> Mi ricordo bene quel changeset: ho volutamente editato da ID bench e
> shelter mentre platform l'ho aggiunta da Osmose, solo per non perdere il
> lavoro come mi era successo altre volte.
> L'ideale sarebbe che qualcuno DA Osmose correggesse EDITANDO qualche tag
> per poi vedere se arrivano o no sul DB.
> (se invece AGGIUNGE dei tag, quello sì, funziona, come ci si aspetta)
>
> Il giorno mer 27 feb 2019 alle ore 22:59 Andrea Albani 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> guardando la tua history vedo che il changeset relativo all'edit diretto
>> in osmose [0] ha come ora di apertura 16:23, ma viene chiuso alle 17:34,
>> ora in cui i change apportati  (public_transport=platform) vengono
>> consolidati sul db.
>> Dentro ad esempio ci sono le 2 fermate di "Barbania (fraz. Piana)" che
>> sono oggetto di un altro changeset [1] creato con iD (aperto e chiuso alle
>> 16:33) in cui cambi i valori dei tag bench e shelter da unknown a no.
>> La mia ipotesi è che i valori nuovi di questi 2 tag fossero anche nel
>> changeset di osmose, che essendo però stato consolidato dopo la chiusura
>> del changeset fatto con iD, non appaiono come modificati da quello di
>> osmose.
>>
>> Puoi verificare se quanto sopra è corretto apportando una modifica in
>> osmose e aspettando che questa appaia nella tua changeset history per poi
>> controllare se contiene tutte le modifiche attese.
>>
>> Ciao
>>
>> [0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/67623366
>> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/67623673
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mer 27 feb 2019 alle ore 20:57 canfe  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Ho scoperto che su Osmose se si edita *da *Osmose, la segnalazione
>>> sparisce
>>> ma in realtà il DB di OSM *non *viene aggiornato.
>>> Capita anche a voi?
>>>
>>> Caso pratico:
>>> ho editato parecchie pensiline bus.
>>> Osmose segnale un errore con pin marrone perché shelter e bench sono
>>> /unknown/.
>>> Con mapillary ho controllato ed ho editato *dall'interno di Osmose*
>>> mettendo
>>> yes o no.
>>> Il pin sparisce e ne compare uno azzurro che indica che bisogna
>>> aggiungere
>>> /platform/.
>>> Faccio il fix proposto da Osmose *utilizzando *Osmose.
>>> Il pin sparisce.
>>> Effetto sul DB: shelter e bench *non *aggiornati, platform *aggiunta *sì.
>>>
>>> (ovviamente ho fatto il "save" su Osmose).
>>>
>>> Ferruccio Cantone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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[Talk-us] Louisville, Kentucky deleted roads & rail

[Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com]

Any local experts in the Louisville, Kentucky area?A new user, River Ridge, started editing in Louisville seven days ago and appears to have deleted quite a bit of material. I've heard he's a good guy who didn't mean to do anything malicious, but it looks like he could use some help. Some reverts are probably in order. You might want to take a close look at each of his edits.You can see the damage from one changeset here:https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=67628370I figured it'd be best if someone from this area could step in and assist him.Cheers!

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Re: [Talk-it] Dubbi da principiante per modificare tag

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Ciao e benvenuta il ML!

La versione precedente è superata dal tuo sopralluogo. Togli pure il tag
amenity; il building=school può restare se la struttura fisica è tipica di
una scuola, altrimenti fallo "decadere" a yes.
La note credo sia inappropriata, in quanto descrive l'eventuale proprietà
di un altro elemento OSM ed inoltre la mancanza di "designazione attuale"
non è utile.

Il gio 28 feb 2019, 18:31 Paola via Talk-it  ha
scritto:

> Ciao a tutti,
> sono Paola e nuova di OSM, ho seguito i workshop al foss4g di Padova e in
> questi giorni sto provando ad inserire
> qualche informazione intanto nel mio quartiere (come hanno suggerito!).
> Ad ogni inserimento però sorgono mille dubbi, ad esempio c'è un edificio
> pubblico che ha cambiato il suo uso, da scuola a sede delle varie
> associazioni presenti in città.
> Come mi devo comportare? contattare chi ha inserito la prima versione?
> semplicemente modificando i tag? devo sistemare con disused o altro?
>
> Questi sono i tag riportati:
> amenity: school
> building: yes
> name: Liceo - vecchia sede
> note: Sede spostata in via Milano. Da verificare designazione attuale
>
> Vi ringrazio,
> Paola
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mutualisation, collaboratif et libre accès pour les données géographiques - devinette

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 28/02/2019 à 18:23, Adrien Grellier - pe...@adrieng.fr a écrit :


La problématique risque d'être similaire pour le SHOM, qui résiste bien
pour le moment, peut-être grâce à la loi qui impose des cartes
officielles à bord des bateaux.


C'est exact mais rien n'impose que les cartes soient payantes. La Chine 
a décidé de publier ses cartes en S57 pas en S63.


Traduction pour le néophyte : dans la norme mondiale mais dans sa 
version non cryptée.


Parce que la sécurité leur importait plus que les entrées d'argent.

Car l'état a ici tendance à évaluer les coûts directs et oublier les 
économies et gains indirects.


Si l'IGN pouvait se positionner sur la qualification des données, ils 
gagneraient sans doute mais s'ils préfèrent le syndrome de la citadelle 
assiégée, il de faudra pas se plaindre que cette citadelle tombe.


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[Talk-it] Dubbi da principiante per modificare tag

[Paola via Talk-it]

Ciao a tutti,
sono Paola e nuova di OSM, ho seguito i workshop al foss4g di Padova e in 
questi giorni sto provando ad inserire
qualche informazione intanto nel mio quartiere (come hanno suggerito!).
Ad ogni inserimento però sorgono mille dubbi, ad esempio c'è un edificio 
pubblico che ha cambiato il suo uso, da scuola a sede delle varie associazioni 
presenti in città.
Come mi devo comportare? contattare chi ha inserito la prima versione? 
semplicemente modificando i tag? devo sistemare con disused o altro?

Questi sono i tag riportati:
amenity: school
building: yes
name: Liceo - vecchia sede
note: Sede spostata in via Milano. Da verificare designazione attuale

Vi ringrazio,
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mutualisation, collaboratif et libre accès pour les données géographiques - devinette

[Adrien Grellier]

Pour me faire l'avocat du diable, peut-être que c'est une façon de se
protéger :

L'IGN subit comme toute la fonction publique une pression pour être «
rentable », « auto-financé », avec une perte de personnel, etc.. Le
principe d'OSM peut donc représenter un danger, puisque les
professionnels sont remplacés par une myriade de contributeurs, certains
payés, d'autres non. « Si OSM fait aussi bien que l'IGN avec des
bénévoles, pourquoi donc s'embêter à payer une administration inutile ?
» pourrait se demander un politicien très fin… et l'IGN peut se
retrouver victime d'un système très malsain, auquel tout le monde risque
d'y perdre. D'où la tentation de montrer les muscles, d'être « leader
sur son domaine », simplement pour exister.

La problématique risque d'être similaire pour le SHOM, qui résiste bien
pour le moment, peut-être grâce à la loi qui impose des cartes
officielles à bord des bateaux.

Adrien

Le 28/02/2019 à 10:23, Nicolas Moyroud a écrit :
> Merci Jean-Christophe pour ce partage.
>
> Hé si j'avais deviné ! Je me doutais bien qu'il y avait un piège en
> voyant ta question et j'ai récemment entendu quelqu'un me parler de
> cette "volonté" de l'IGN de réinventer ce que fait déjà très bien OSM.
> Ils aiment bien se positionner comme le chef de file d'une nouvelle
> dynamique, même quand ils ont 10 ans de retard sur le sujet. Sans
> doute l'habitude d'être ceux qui "décident" dans le domaine de
> l'information géographique en France ? Hé non, le monde de l'info géo
> a changé pendant que vous dormiez les amis ! ;-)
>
> Bonne journée,
>
> Nicolas
>
>
>
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[Talk-cat] Importacions dades Ajuntament de Barcelona i Generalitat de Catalunya

[Listas]

Gràcies per la recerca. Això de les dades obertes és molt interessant.

Aquí un enllaç d'exemple sobre dades que hem realitzat sobre
Banyoles, encara falta polir algunes coses i sens dubte és pot millorar.

http://www.banyolescultura.net/carrers/mapaciutat.html

Joan Grabuleda

> Bon dia,
> 
> he preparat un parell de wikis amb els conjunts de dades obertes
> disponibles als portals de l'Ajuntament de Barcelona [1] i a la Generalitat
> de Catalunya[2], a l'estil del que han fet altres col·laboradors per a
> Madrid, Sevilla, Gijón... Per a aquests organismes tenim autorització per a
> reutilitzar les seves dades, gràcies a les gestions que va fer en Joaquin.
> També tenim per a l'AMB i la Diputació de Barcelona, però encara no m'ho he
> mirat.
> 
> Per a cada conjunt que vulguem importar caldrà seguir el procés
> d'importació establert a OSM [3]: definir com es farà, escriure-ho en una
> wiki, i consultar a la llista d'imports. En alguns casos, per les
> característiques de les dades, es podrà aprofitar el esquema.
> 
> A la darrera reunió es va parlar de fixar-nos el proper objectiu en els
> equipaments d'emergència (bombers, sanitat, farmàcies, policia, DEA...).
> Podria ser un punt de partida per establir els mecanismes, crear els
> scripts que calgui, etc.
> 
> Quan pugueu aneu donant un cop d'ull i decidim per on començar. I els que
> pugueu ocupar-vos dels scripts aixequeu la mà ;-)
> 
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ca:Importaci%C3%B3_Ajuntament_de_Barcelona
> [2]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ca:Importaci%C3%B3_dades_Generalitat_de_Catalunya
> [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Importaci%C3%B3n/Directrices

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Re: [OSM-ja] 追加提案(Re: 改定提案 - RFC - Proposed Japan tagging/Road types)

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだです。

基本的にyumean1119さんの提案には賛成方針なのですが、
決議に際して判断が必要な材料を増やすと、
もともとのhayashiさんの提案自体の決議をとる際の判断材料が多くなってしまうことを懸念しています。

ひとまず、今回のhayashiさんの提案とは別に議論するのはどうでしょう？

> 歩行者優先の看板
徐行運転するような場所、ということかな、とボンヤリ思っていて、
それは感覚的にはなんとなくわかるのですが、
road typeとして適用するとなるととてもレアなケースだと思います。
なので、判断するための標識などが明確になっていることはよいと思います。
例えば、ちょっとググってでてきた資料ですが、通学路をつきつめてゆくと、
residentialとfootwayを別々に描けばよいのでは、みたいなことになる気もしています。
（living_roadを適用したいのは、ほんとうに歩行者しか歩かないけど舗装されている道路、ってかんじでイメージしています。でも、そういうのはpedestrianもあるよね、という気もしています）

http://www.zenhyokyo.or.jp/common/pdf/schoolzone.pdf

cyclewayは、自転車関連の規制が固まりつつありそうないま、議論しておくのはとても良いと思っています。
（なんか、すごいたくさん罠規制がありそうでこわい印象あり）



2019年3月1日(金) 0:32 batosm :

>
> ゾーン30や観光地も例の一つになっているので、文脈的には許可を得ている車両が歩行者専用道路を通行するような場所（駅近辺繁華街など）が該当しませんか。アーケードの商店街などが良い例かと思います。
>
> batosm
>
> 2019年2月28日(木) 23:35 :
>
>> Ras and Roadです。
>>
>> yumean1119さん、「歩行者優先の看板」って何を指していますか？
>> 法定の交通標識には存在しないと思います。
>> 強いて言えば「自転車歩行者専用道路」の補助標識に「歩行者優先」と
>> 記されることはありますが、yumean1119さんが言わんとしている道路
>> とは違いますね。
>>
>> ** Ras and Road **
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-- 
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Re: [OSM-ja] 追加提案(Re: 改定提案 - RFC - Proposed Japan tagging/Road types)

[batosm]

ゾーン30や観光地も例の一つになっているので、文脈的には許可を得ている車両が歩行者専用道路を通行するような場所（駅近辺繁華街など）が該当しませんか。アーケードの商店街などが良い例かと思います。

batosm

2019年2月28日(木) 23:35 :

> Ras and Roadです。
>
> yumean1119さん、「歩行者優先の看板」って何を指していますか？
> 法定の交通標識には存在しないと思います。
> 強いて言えば「自転車歩行者専用道路」の補助標識に「歩行者優先」と
> 記されることはありますが、yumean1119さんが言わんとしている道路
> とは違いますね。
>
> ** Ras and Road **
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Re: [Talk-it] accessibilità disabili - larghezza marciapiedi

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Io metto semplicemente width nel tratto interessato. Se poi non ci sono
possibilità di tornare indietro (spaziono per rotazione di 180°) valuterei
un wheelchair=no

Il gio 28 feb 2019, 13:39 Andrea Canevazzi  ha
scritto:

> Gentili tutti,
>
> *intro*
> a Milano stiamo mappando i marciapiedi nell'ottica di costruire uno
> strumento a favore di un routing per le persone con disabilità. Per quanto
> rigurda il passaggio con la sedia a rotelle oltre alla presenza di gradini,
> non ribassati agli attraversamenti, c'è il problema di segnalare
> marciapiedi troppo stretti per permettere il passaggio. *Esempio*: via
> della Guastalla da Corso di Porta Vittoria verso l'ospedale Policlinico di
> Milano.
>
> *problema*
> non ho capito come taggare questi restringimenti. dare la misura in
> centimetri mi sembra esagerato dato che lungo l'isolato potrebbe variare
> senza che dal punto di vista dell'accessibilità ci siano differenze.
>
> *proposta*
>
> cosa ne pensate di usare highway=footway footway=sidewalk* whidt:wheelchair=no
> *per indicare quei percorsi che non garantiscono larghezza sufficiente al
> passaggio delle sedie a rotelle?
>
> Grazie,
> Andrea
>
> *Arch. Andrea Canevazzi, Ph.D.*
>  +39 3482453713
>  andrea.caneva...@gmail.com 
>
> *Via Novara, 160 | 20153 Milano | Italia*
>
> *L’invio di documenti anche contabili  tramite posta elettronica è un
> mezzo consentito, ai sensi dell’art.21 DPR 633/72 e a seguito della CM n.
> 45/E del 19/10/2005; il documento informatico dovrà essere materializzato
> da chi lo riceve tramite stampa su supporto cartaceo e quindi conservato
> come ogni altro documento su carta.  *
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Re: [OSM-ja] 追加提案(Re: 改定提案 - RFC - Proposed Japan tagging/Road types)

[info]

Ras and Roadです。

yumean1119さん、「歩行者優先の看板」って何を指していますか？
法定の交通標識には存在しないと思います。
強いて言えば「自転車歩行者専用道路」の補助標識に「歩行者優先」と
記されることはありますが、yumean1119さんが言わんとしている道路
とは違いますね。

** Ras and Road **
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[Talk-us] Road name update challenges

[Mike N]

There have been some road name challenge projects which do excellent 
work - updating the road network for current changes.  In some cases, 
there are now dueling sources, for example a recent change -


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/666170175/history

  (I don't fault any editor involved; they were following best 
practices using the best information they had at the time.)


  Here's my interpretation -
1. Original TIGER had Ruppe Dr at a nearby but incorrect location.
2. Updated TIGER caught Ruppe Dr at the correct location, but introduced 
a typo when entered: Tuppe instead of Ruppe, and didn't remove or just 
move the original Ruppe Dr.
3. All county GIS departments were directed to dump their newest road 
data into info2.scdot.org in 2018.
 4. This was used in a challenge project to create the first version of 
Ruppe Dr at the correct location.
 5. A second update was applied using older / wrong TIGER data. 
Neither noticed the wrong duplicate Ruppe Drive that ran through a house.


  The wrong Tuppe Drive still has a "source" tag which is now misleading.

  We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing 
the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated 
than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some 
local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate 
because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.


 1.)  For global TIGER comparison maps, would it be possible to 
substitute more current public statewide data as the reference such as 
in SC?


  2.)  Just as if I surveyed the name on a street sign and was able to 
confirm it with public records, how would I detect / prevent loss of 
work when it mismatches our other public sources for several years?


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Solution simple pour remplacer Google Maps par OSM dans un site?

[Shohreh]

Merci pour l'info.

https://medium.com/@LoicOrtola/mapocalypse-migrer-depuis-google-maps-maintenant-1-2-ed12ed3b5c21

https://www.flocondetoile.fr/blog/basculer-de-google-maps-vers-leaflet-et-openstreetmap-avec-geolocation-sur-drupal-8



--
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Re: [Talk-it] accessibilità disabili - larghezza marciapiedi

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Buongiorno Andrea,

in questi ultimi mesi sto approfondendo molto la questione e ne abbiamo 
parlato anche al FOSS4G-IT di Padova durante la sessione OpenStreetMap 
(qui 
 
le slides)


In questa pagina 
 
sto prendendo vari appunti che spero possano svilupparsi in una pagina 
del wiki ufficiale. Ogni commento e input sono ben accetti!


On 28/02/19 13:38, Andrea Canevazzi wrote:

Gentili tutti,

/intro/
a Milano stiamo mappando i marciapiedi nell'ottica di costruire uno 
strumento a favore di un routing per le persone con disabilità. Per 
quanto rigurda il passaggio con la sedia a rotelle oltre alla presenza 
di gradini, non ribassati agli attraversamenti, c'è il problema di 
segnalare marciapiedi troppo stretti per permettere il passaggio. 
_Esempio_: via della Guastalla da Corso di Porta Vittoria verso 
l'ospedale Policlinico di Milano.


/problema/
non ho capito come taggare questi restringimenti. dare la misura in 
centimetri mi sembra esagerato dato che lungo l'isolato potrebbe 
variare senza che dal punto di vista dell'accessibilità ci siano 
differenze.


/proposta/

cosa ne pensate di usare highway=footway 
footway=sidewalk* whidt:wheelchair=no *per indicare quei percorsi che 
non garantiscono larghezza sufficiente al passaggio delle sedie a rotelle?


Sono abbastanza in disaccordo con questa proposta perché potrebbe 
risultare interpretata in modo soggettivo.


Se il marciapiede è chiaramente più largo dei 90 cm richiesta dalla 
normativa, si potrebbe mettere semplicemente wheelchair=yes e 
tralasciare la misurazione precisa della larghezza.


Se invece il marciapiede è "stretto", secondo me l'unico modo corretto e 
riproducibile per segnalare il problema è riportare la misura della 
width (il default mi pare sia m, cmq si può aggiungere l'unità di 
misura). In questo modo a posteriori si può decidere di considerare 
yes/no/limited il routing per una certa tipologia di carrozzina (o 
passeggino ...). L'approccio quantitativo è senz'altro da preferire.


Personalmente suggerisco inoltre, nel caso di wheelchair=no o limited, 
di aggiungere un tag wheelchair:description:it (e magari 
wheelchair:description:en) con la motivazione, che potrebbe essere 
diversa o molteplice (larghezza, supreficie, inclilnazione, ...).


m2c

Ale


--

Alessandro Sarretta

skype/twitter: alesarrett
Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com 

Research information:

 * Google scholar profile
   
 * ORCID 
 * Research Gate 
 * Impactstory 

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Re: [Talk-it] accessibilità disabili - larghezza marciapiedi

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

On 28. Feb 2019, at 13:38, Andrea Canevazzi 
wrote

*problema*
non ho capito come taggare questi restringimenti. dare la misura in
centimetri mi sembra esagerato dato che lungo l'isolato potrebbe variare
senza che dal punto di vista dell'accessibilità ci siano differenze.



io non metterei un tag riassuntivo che dice "larghezza sedia rotelle =si/no"
per più motivi:
- le sedie hanno larghezze diverse, cosa va ancora "bene" per una, potrebbe
non bastare per un altra.
- non ci sono solo sedie a rotelle che hanno bisogno di un certo ingombro,
la larghezza potrebbe anche essere interessante per altri scopi.

Invece metterei "width" con un valore in metri (0.6 per esempio).
Se la larghezza varia, metterei il valore più piccolo, e se necessario si
può spezzare il way del marciapiede in più pezzi.
Volendo si potrebbe anche creare un nodo apposito per un ristringimento
puntuale, con un tag width sul nodo, oppure / e forse con un tag obstacle=
(attualmente non ci sono valori sensati per questo scopo in uso però:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/obstacle#values ), ma questo
vorrebbe dire che la probabilità per questo tag di essere tenuto in conto
sarebbe bassa (al meno all'inizio e su "sistemi generici").

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it] accessibilità disabili - larghezza marciapiedi

[Andrea Canevazzi]

Gentili tutti,

*intro*
a Milano stiamo mappando i marciapiedi nell'ottica di costruire uno
strumento a favore di un routing per le persone con disabilità. Per quanto
rigurda il passaggio con la sedia a rotelle oltre alla presenza di gradini,
non ribassati agli attraversamenti, c'è il problema di segnalare
marciapiedi troppo stretti per permettere il passaggio. *Esempio*: via
della Guastalla da Corso di Porta Vittoria verso l'ospedale Policlinico di
Milano.

*problema*
non ho capito come taggare questi restringimenti. dare la misura in
centimetri mi sembra esagerato dato che lungo l'isolato potrebbe variare
senza che dal punto di vista dell'accessibilità ci siano differenze.

*proposta*

cosa ne pensate di usare highway=footway footway=sidewalk* whidt:wheelchair=no
*per indicare quei percorsi che non garantiscono larghezza sufficiente al
passaggio delle sedie a rotelle?

Grazie,
Andrea

*Arch. Andrea Canevazzi, Ph.D.*
 +39 3482453713
 andrea.caneva...@gmail.com 

*Via Novara, 160 | 20153 Milano | Italia*

*L’invio di documenti anche contabili  tramite posta elettronica è un mezzo
consentito, ai sensi dell’art.21 DPR 633/72 e a seguito della CM n. 45/E
del 19/10/2005; il documento informatico dovrà essere materializzato da chi
lo riceve tramite stampa su supporto cartaceo e quindi conservato come ogni
altro documento su carta.  *
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Re: [talk-cz] Šablony pro Žádost o data

[majka]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 at 12:49, Pavel Zbytovský zbytov...@gmail.com
 wrote:

Ahoj,

po konverzaci s Majkou jsme se shodli, že v Google Docs to půjde lépe
připomínkovat. Pokud máte zájem, prosím mrkněte a vepište co vás napadne,
dá se tam nad tím pak snadno diskutovat:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JdhYGi2828bTwjkW6e3CAdyh_FeoJMlk8I8SfIHuGE0/edit

Nevím kde se řeší hlavičkový papír, možná by bylo vhodno také ho
připomínkovat zde. Jediná verze je asi ta naše přihláška, že?

K hlavičkovému papíru tu bylo řečeno, že je předčasná záležitost. Nějaké
návrhy jsem tu dávala, a jsou na tom gitu, co všichni zvesela ignorují :)
Je tam několik verzí.

Ale opravdu je nemá dávat smysl do GoogleDoc, pokud se neshodneme na
variantě, jak to bude vypadat. Protože v PDF všichni vidí totéž, Word a
LibreOffice každý zafunguje jinak, a GoogleDoc si to přebere ještě podle
svého. Navíc jsem se ještě ani neshodli na tom, co za logo budeme používat.

*Za mě navrhuji následující postup:*

   1. Shoda na textu toho souhlasu
   2. Určit, jestli tu akci rozjet hned, nebo čekat na hlavičkový papír a
   podobné záležitosti. Vhodné by to bylo. To ale předpokládá:
   a) shodnout se na logu
   b) shodnout se na vzhledu toho hlavičkového papíru
   3. Shodnout se na to, jestli tu akci budeme nějak koordinovat

K bodu 1 a 2:
Ráda bych, aby připomínky k tomu textu padly během 14ti dní a pak se to
uzavřelo. To by mělo dát čas, prohnat to přes Weekly. Totéž pro rozhodnutí,
zda čekat na hlavičkový papír (tj. i na logo) nebo ne, případně tohle řešit
nějak souběžně.

Majka
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Re: [talk-cz] Šablony pro Žádost o data

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj,

hlavickovy papir podle mne zvlast jeste nikdo nedelal, jen Majka
avizovala, ze udela nejake pokusy. De facto uz je jasne logo, takze
ted uz to asi ma smysl nejak zkouset.

Bye

čt 28. 2. 2019 v 12:49 odesílatel Pavel Zbytovský  napsal:
>
> Ahoj,
>
> po konverzaci s Majkou jsme se shodli, že v Google Docs to půjde lépe 
> připomínkovat. Pokud máte zájem, prosím mrkněte a vepište co vás napadne, dá 
> se tam nad tím pak snadno diskutovat:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JdhYGi2828bTwjkW6e3CAdyh_FeoJMlk8I8SfIHuGE0/edit
>
> Nevím kde se řeší hlavičkový papír, možná by bylo vhodno také ho 
> připomínkovat zde. Jediná verze je asi ta naše přihláška, že?
>
> P.
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Solution simple pour remplacer Google Maps par OSM dans un site?

[PanierAvide]

Bonjour,

Point de vue technique, le passage de l'API Google Maps à une carte 
basée sur Leaflet se fait bien, les appels et la logique sont très 
similaires. Dans le cas d'une carte simple ça peut être très rapide, 
après si la carte Google a été personnalisée (fonctionnalités en 
surcouche, interactions complexes...) ça peut prendre quelques jours.


Cordialement,

Adrien P.

Le 28/02/2019 à 12:31, Shohreh a écrit :

Bonjour,

Plusieurs mois après la fin de l'accès gratuit à Google Maps, il est encore
fréquent de tomber sur des sites — parfois même d'organismes publics — qui
n'ont toujours pas migré vers une autre solution gratuite.

Dernier exemple en date, Freemaptools et son très utile outil pour dessiner
un rayon autour d'un point :

https://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

Est-il facile de convertir un site de Google Maps vers OSM pour simplement
afficher une carte, voire des POI ? Un article a-t-il été rédigé pour
expliquer comment s'y prendre ?

Question subsidiaire : combien de développement serait-il nécessaire pour
que Freemaptools passe à OSM pour faire la même chose (dessiner un cercle
autour d'un point) ?

Merci.



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[talk-cz] Šablony pro Žádost o data

[Pavel Zbytovský]

Ahoj,

po konverzaci s Majkou jsme se shodli, že v Google Docs to půjde lépe
připomínkovat. Pokud máte zájem, prosím mrkněte a vepište co vás napadne,
dá se tam nad tím pak snadno diskutovat:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JdhYGi2828bTwjkW6e3CAdyh_FeoJMlk8I8SfIHuGE0/edit

Nevím kde se řeší hlavičkový papír, možná by bylo vhodno také ho
připomínkovat zde. Jediná verze je asi ta naše přihláška, že?

P.
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Re: [Talk-it] operator=Polizia Municipale

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Ho aperto questo thread in tagging:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-February/043256.html

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] operator=Polizia Municipale

[Alessandro P. via Talk-it]

Il 28/02/19 12:26, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:
In generale, avendo tantissimi corpi di polizia, non sarebbe male 
avere dei tag specifici che dicono il tipo / scopo. Oppure ci basta 
averlo nel tag "name"?


IMHO Polizia Locale lo inserirei nel nome mentre valorizzerei 
operator=Comune di Roccacannuccia





polizia postale, forestale, carabinieri, guardia costiera (sono 
polizia?), polizia locale, provinciale, municipale, di stato, guardia 
di finanza (polizia?), carabinieri (polizia?), penitenziaria, e chi sa 
quanti altri.
Poi ci sono gli unioni (Antimafia, Antidroga, forse altri). Vogliamo 
anche taggare come si chiamano nello specifico (per esempio la polizia 
municipale si potrebbe anche chiamare vigili urbani o polizia locale)?


Antimafia, anidroga, ecc.. lo inserirei sempre nel nome.



Il tag amenity=police si riferisce soltanto a polizie "civili", oppure 
anche a quelli militari come GdF e CC? Forse questa domanda la 
dobbiamo porre sulla lista tagging internazionale (lo faccio adesso), 
ma interessa anche il parere qui.


amenity=police lo vedo come corpo di polizia in genere, prima di tutto 
in Italia per Polizia di Stato e Carabinieri, poi viene esteso anche a 
Polizia Locale (o Municipale e altri) perchè svolgono comunque ruolo di 
polizia (e spesso portano un'arma).


Non ho però una conoscenza abbastanza approfondita per entrare nei 
dettagli. Ad esempio, i forestali sono stati accorpati nei Carabinieri e 
anche loro hanno dei problemi non da poco: sono infatti passati da un 
corpo civile ad uno militare :-O


Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

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[OSM-talk-fr] Solution simple pour remplacer Google Maps par OSM dans un site?

[Shohreh]

Bonjour,

Plusieurs mois après la fin de l'accès gratuit à Google Maps, il est encore
fréquent de tomber sur des sites — parfois même d'organismes publics — qui
n'ont toujours pas migré vers une autre solution gratuite.

Dernier exemple en date, Freemaptools et son très utile outil pour dessiner
un rayon autour d'un point :

https://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

Est-il facile de convertir un site de Google Maps vers OSM pour simplement
afficher une carte, voire des POI ? Un article a-t-il été rédigé pour
expliquer comment s'y prendre ?

Question subsidiaire : combien de développement serait-il nécessaire pour
que Freemaptools passe à OSM pour faire la même chose (dessiner un cercle
autour d'un point) ?

Merci.



--
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Re: [Talk-it] operator=Polizia Municipale

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

In generale, avendo tantissimi corpi di polizia, non sarebbe male avere dei
tag specifici che dicono il tipo / scopo. Oppure ci basta averlo nel tag
"name"?

polizia postale, forestale, carabinieri, guardia costiera (sono polizia?),
polizia locale, provinciale, municipale, di stato, guardia di finanza
(polizia?), carabinieri (polizia?), penitenziaria, e chi sa quanti altri.
Poi ci sono gli unioni (Antimafia, Antidroga, forse altri). Vogliamo anche
taggare come si chiamano nello specifico (per esempio la polizia municipale
si potrebbe anche chiamare vigili urbani o polizia locale)?

Il tag amenity=police si riferisce soltanto a polizie "civili", oppure
anche a quelli militari come GdF e CC? Forse questa domanda la dobbiamo
porre sulla lista tagging internazionale (lo faccio adesso), ma interessa
anche il parere qui.


Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[Christian Quest]

Pour une commune ou un EPCI, si ils veulent que leurs données alimentent 
la BAN et soient les plus réutilisables possible, OSM n'est pas la 
solution (because ODbL)


L'IGN et La Poste propose leur guichet, mais pour l'instant il ne 
débouche sur rien vu que l'IGN de transmet plus les données à Etalab 
pour diffusion.


Etalab a développé des outils simples (que je n'ai pas testé), en ligne, 
s'appuyant sur le principe des "BAL" (Base Adresse Locale).


L'éditeur pour créer sa BAL est ici: 
https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/bases-locales/editeur


Une fois la BAL mise à jour, il suffit de la publier (en Licence 
Ouverte) sur data.gouv.fr... et elle pourra aussi alimenter BANO 
automatiquement.


L'idéal serait d'aider à faire monter en compétence quelqu'un au niveau 
de l'EPCI, pour qu'il puisse faire ça petit à petit sur plusieurs 
communes. J'y crois moins au niveau d'une commune qui va le faire une 
fois, puis n'aura sûrement pas le volume de modif suffisant pour garder 
la compétence.



Le 25/02/2019 à 16:34, deuzeffe a écrit :

On 25/02/2019 14:43, pepilepi...@ovh.fr wrote:

Le 24/02/2019 à 22:21, deuzeffe a écrit :
Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus 
d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données 
auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des 
lotissements n'est pas une solution).


Bin c'est pourtant ce qui a été fait chez moi...


J'ai en fait quelques uns, ceux pour lesquels l'arpentage du cadastre 
n'est pas possible ;) Toujours peur de me faire agresser par un 
habitant qui me prend pour une mal intentionnée (ça m'est déjà arrivé 
lors du projet du mois "Transfo."). Je promènerais bien mes chats, 
mais je sens qu'ils ne vont pas se laisser faire.


Le cadastre, les CR de conseils municipaux (oui, il y a eu une grande 
campagne de renommage pour se conformer aux exigences de la poste) et 
l'adjoint à l'urbanisme pour les noms des rues...


Pile-poil. C'est même ma motivation première : la numérotation/nommage 
des voies a été déclarée indispensable pour le fibrage (bizarrement, 
raccorder les bâtiments au réseau téléphonique ne l'exigeait pas...)


Et un brave retraité qui avait un chien à promener pour situer les 
numéros ! Résultat : ~1880 addr:housenumber. Et OSMAND qui maintenant 
sait vous conduire précisément n'importe où dans le village. ET bien 
sûr une forte publicité de ma part pour OSM auprès de la municipalité !


Ça, c'est déjà fait ;)

Occupation pour le prochain jour de pluie, extraire d'OSM/BANO et 
comparer avec la BAN figée au 28 novembre 2018. Juste pour le fun, 
parce que je sais qui a la plus grosse.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [Talk-it] operator=Polizia Municipale

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Do., 28. Feb. 2019 um 12:13 Uhr schrieb Alessandro P. via Talk-it <
talk-it@openstreetmap.org>:

> Vedendo e commentando un changeset che riportava molti operator=Polizia
> Municipale, l'utente LuSirto mi ha indirizzato verso la pagina wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:amenity%3Dpolice in cui è
> scritto che, appunto, per i corpi di Polizia Municipale l'operator sia
> lo stesso.
>
> In realtà ogni comune ha la propria Polizia Municipale, al contrario dei
> corpi nazionali. Secondo me in operator sarebbe perciò da inserire il
> comune a cui appartiene la Polizia Municipale e non un dicitura
> generica. Stessa cosa per Polizia Locale e Provinciale (se esiste ancora).



sono d'accordo con te, operator sarebbe il gestore specifico (credo "Comune
di Esempio" o simile)

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it] operator=Polizia Municipale

[Alessandro P. via Talk-it]

Vedendo e commentando un changeset che riportava molti operator=Polizia 
Municipale, l'utente LuSirto mi ha indirizzato verso la pagina wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:amenity%3Dpolice in cui è 
scritto che, appunto, per i corpi di Polizia Municipale l'operator sia 
lo stesso.


In realtà ogni comune ha la propria Polizia Municipale, al contrario dei 
corpi nazionali. Secondo me in operator sarebbe perciò da inserire il 
comune a cui appartiene la Polizia Municipale e non un dicitura 
generica. Stessa cosa per Polizia Locale e Provinciale (se esiste ancora).


Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mutualisation, collaboratif et libre accès pour les données géographiques - devinette

[Philippe Verdy]

Il faut croire que l'IGN réalise bien tard qu'elle s'est elle-même enfermée
dans une logique propriétaire (héritée d'un ancien système où seul l'Etat
était maître d'oeuvre mais aujourd'hui ne peut plus le faire et a privé
l'IGN de nombre de ses moyens).
L'IGN constate elle-même qu'elle est de moins en moins sollicitée par les
collectivités qui ont du prendre en charge elles-mêmes l'information
géographique.
Et pourtant ce n'est pas faute d'avoir tenté de la part d'OSM de se mettre
en rapport avec l'IGN.
Mais l'IGN a mal vu OSM car le projet n'était à l'origine pas créé en
France, et donc elle avait peur de perdre son statut d'expert en la matière
sur la France. Elle n'a pas écouté les collectivités et nombreux autres
services de l'Etat qui ont pourtant fait le pari d'OSM.
La "culture maison" de l'IGN croit encore que ce qui n'émane pas
directement de ses propres travaux (qu'elle peine maintenant à financer) la
placerait en position d'infériorité face aux acteurs économiques (qu'OSM
n'exclue pas par définition de ce que doit être un système "ouvert"). Elle
souffre encore du "syndrome Michelin" qui lui longtemps fait concurrence
poru la cartographie "grand public" (les cartes IGN se sont toujours bien
plus mal vendues que les cartes Michelin; la question ne se pose plus les
deux sont en perte de vitesse, face à l'efficacité des systèmes en ligne,
propriétaires ou ouverts). L'IGN a voulu créer un petit projet semi-ouvert
mais limité sur la France, alors que les géants (Google, Nokia maintenant
Microsoft, Apple) et OSM se sont placés sur le terrain de la cartographie
mondiale et visent tous à fournir des données à tout public (individuel, ou
personne morale).

La différence étant qu'OSM reste la seule plateforme réellement ouverte où
les données ne sont pas filtrées selon le segment de public par des algos
propriétaires et intrusifs et qu'OSM propose ces données gratuitement et
donne le controle à tout le monde et sans délai (ce que ne font pas les
autres acteurs privés qui s'arrogent la propriété totale et l'exclusivité
de la distribution et donc du filtrage des données, et aussi tous les
revenus, mais aussi ne veulent pas garantir la permanence de l'accès
octroyé, en fixant des limites arbitraires d'usage, sans cesse abaissées ou
à coût d'usage croissant: le modèle Google/Apple/Nokia va à l'encontre du
principe même de l'ouverture: il commence à fixer un cout d'usage bas et
vise à l'augmenter sensiblement avec le temps, leur modèle est
"parasitaire", il profite des pseudo-iniatitives "d'ouverture" de leur
plateforme de collecte, mais de fermeture complète de l'usage des données
collectées avec un transfert inacceptable de propriété).

OSM va à l'inverse: au départ il y a un cout plus important, qui n'est pas
caché aux utilisateurs, il adopte une politique de vérité sur les couts
réels, et appelle donc à aider à financer ce lancement: c'est un pari où
l'investissement important de départ est ensuite *garanti* d'être amorti
dans le temps pour que ce coût initial ne cesse de diminuer. Personne n'est
lésé. Dans ce cadre l'IGN aurait tout à fait pu participer mais s'y est
refusé. Il commence à peine à réaliser le terrain perdu (déjà contre les
acteurs économiques, mais maintenant aussi dans le terrain collaboratif, en
tentant de fonder un autre système concurrent, mais à l'objectif beaucoup
plus limité qui ne répond déjà plus aux besoins).

Il est donc incompréhensible que l'IGN ne dise aucun mot au sujet d'OSM,
alors que les collectivités (et d'autres acteurs publics) sont déjà
nombreuses a avoir pris le pari d'OSM. On en voit peu qui le regrette, même
si pour certaines l'engagement est progressif et n'exclue pas pour
l'instant d'utiliser les services propriétaires (Google, Apple,
Microsoft/Nokia/Bing, bientôt aussi Facebook). Les collectivités n'ont pas
renoncé à certaines ressources IGN. Mais si cet engagement est progressif,
c'est surtout pour des raisons techniques (notamment en terme de
disponibilité dans les appels d'offres de marchés publics: OSM manque
encore d'acteurs prenant en charge une permanence technique et une garantie
de fonctionnement, puisque ce n'est pas OSM qui fournit directement ce
service mais des sociétés qui, elles, ont fait le pari de s'appuyer sur les
données OSM pour les mettre en valeur: ces sociétés existent et
fonctionnent maintenant bien, elles proposent des kits d'intégration, des
ateliers logiciels, un support technique, peuvent répondre à des demandes
de "lots" à produire en temps déterminé, peuvent mettre en place des
serveurs, des "applications métiers" autour des données et aider à intégrer
les données OSM autour d'un SIG avec des données non publiées).

Ceci dit, il ne faut pas jeter totalement la pierre contre Google, Apple,
ou Microsoft qui maintenant commencent à prendre OSM au sérieux et se
mettent progressivement à collaborer avec de vraies solutions opensource
(en attendant qu'elles se mettent pleinement elles aussi à l'opendata), et
on profite donc déjà dans OSM de 

Re: [Talk-it] Osmose: gli edit non funzionano

[Canfe News]

Ti ringrazio per la pronta risposta, ma non credo sia lì il problema.
Mi ricordo bene quel changeset: ho volutamente editato da ID bench e
shelter mentre platform l'ho aggiunta da Osmose, solo per non perdere il
lavoro come mi era successo altre volte.
L'ideale sarebbe che qualcuno DA Osmose correggesse EDITANDO qualche tag
per poi vedere se arrivano o no sul DB.
(se invece AGGIUNGE dei tag, quello sì, funziona, come ci si aspetta)

Il giorno mer 27 feb 2019 alle ore 22:59 Andrea Albani 
ha scritto:

> Ciao,
>
> guardando la tua history vedo che il changeset relativo all'edit diretto
> in osmose [0] ha come ora di apertura 16:23, ma viene chiuso alle 17:34,
> ora in cui i change apportati  (public_transport=platform) vengono
> consolidati sul db.
> Dentro ad esempio ci sono le 2 fermate di "Barbania (fraz. Piana)" che
> sono oggetto di un altro changeset [1] creato con iD (aperto e chiuso alle
> 16:33) in cui cambi i valori dei tag bench e shelter da unknown a no.
> La mia ipotesi è che i valori nuovi di questi 2 tag fossero anche nel
> changeset di osmose, che essendo però stato consolidato dopo la chiusura
> del changeset fatto con iD, non appaiono come modificati da quello di
> osmose.
>
> Puoi verificare se quanto sopra è corretto apportando una modifica in
> osmose e aspettando che questa appaia nella tua changeset history per poi
> controllare se contiene tutte le modifiche attese.
>
> Ciao
>
> [0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/67623366
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/67623673
>
>
> Il giorno mer 27 feb 2019 alle ore 20:57 canfe  ha
> scritto:
>
>> Ho scoperto che su Osmose se si edita *da *Osmose, la segnalazione
>> sparisce
>> ma in realtà il DB di OSM *non *viene aggiornato.
>> Capita anche a voi?
>>
>> Caso pratico:
>> ho editato parecchie pensiline bus.
>> Osmose segnale un errore con pin marrone perché shelter e bench sono
>> /unknown/.
>> Con mapillary ho controllato ed ho editato *dall'interno di Osmose*
>> mettendo
>> yes o no.
>> Il pin sparisce e ne compare uno azzurro che indica che bisogna aggiungere
>> /platform/.
>> Faccio il fix proposto da Osmose *utilizzando *Osmose.
>> Il pin sparisce.
>> Effetto sul DB: shelter e bench *non *aggiornati, platform *aggiunta *sì.
>>
>> (ovviamente ho fatto il "save" su Osmose).
>>
>> Ferruccio Cantone
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mutualisation, collaboratif et libre accès pour les données géographiques - devinette

[Nicolas Moyroud]

Merci Jean-Christophe pour ce partage.

Hé si j'avais deviné ! Je me doutais bien qu'il y avait un piège en 
voyant ta question et j'ai récemment entendu quelqu'un me parler de 
cette "volonté" de l'IGN de réinventer ce que fait déjà très bien OSM. 
Ils aiment bien se positionner comme le chef de file d'une nouvelle 
dynamique, même quand ils ont 10 ans de retard sur le sujet. Sans doute 
l'habitude d'être ceux qui "décident" dans le domaine de l'information 
géographique en France ? Hé non, le monde de l'info géo a changé pendant 
que vous dormiez les amis ! ;-)


Bonne journée,

Nicolas



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Re: [talk-cz] Missing Maps mapathon Praha

[Pavel Zbytovský]

Tyjo, supr. Díky za info. Taky se tam chci podívat a inspirovat se pro
příští Workshop OSM :-)

Tak snad příště.
P.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 11:05 PM Jan Macura  wrote:

> Ahoj,
>
> jen chci veřejně poznamenat, že včera jsem se poprvé zúčastnil Missing
> Maps mapathonu v Praze a nestačil jsem valit oči. Takovou davovou akci s
> mikrofony a třemi projektory jsem vážně nečekal. Člověk aby se skoro bál,
> že za chvíli bude Afrika líp zmapovaná, než ČR :-)
>
> Každopádně všem organizátorům velký dík a pochvala za rozvoj OSM komunity
>  H.
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Re: [Talk-de] 100 Karten dieser Welt

[Markus]

Aber wir sind besser:
Japan:
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=38.20365531807149=140.42724609375=6=standard
Neuseeland:
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=-41.16211393939691=170.5517578125=6=standard

Gruss, Markus


Am 28.02.2019 um 08:57 schrieb Markus:
> Interessant:
> *100 Karten, die deine Sicht auf die Welt verändern*
> https://www.gmx.net/magazine/unterhaltung/kultur/grafiken-staunen-100-karten-sicht-welt-veraendern-33584128

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