Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I support this edit.

This spring, I was working on changeset validation code and I was quite
surprised to find that FIXME (an invalid key) was so prevalent in the
database. I had to collect a bunch of extra validation changesets with the
FIXME tag present to train the neural network that an all-caps key is bad
unless it is FIXME. As a data consumer, the existence of the tag caused me
many hours of extra work.

Removing the FIXME tag reduces the learning curve for map editors. Going
forward, nobody needs to wonder if FIXME= or fixme= is correct.

All of the editors have single-click access to the full history of the
object, changes to the last modified time or last modified user isn't that
big a deal for experienced editors.

Jason

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> fixme tag is a standard way to mark fixmes.
> Editors wishing to finish mapping in their area would (directly or
> indirectly, for example using JOSM) look through objects tagged with
> fixme tags.
>
> FIXME tag is an unexpected way to mark fixmes, retagging this duplicate to
> fixme key would improve tagging without any information loss.
>
> It would make development of QA tools easier as authors would not need to
> discover and implement support for this duplicated key.
>
> Between X and Y objects are expected to be edited. See
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/FIXME#map for a
> geographic distribution.
>
> Changeset would be split into small areas to avoid continent-sized
> bounding boxes. As this tag may be on extremely large objects (for example
> relations representing long routes) it may be unavoidable to make some
> edits with very large bounding boxes.
>
> For documentation page see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/
> Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/moving_FIXME_to_fixme
> For documentation of my previous proposals (including both proposals
> that failed to be approved and approved ones) see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/
> Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account
>
> Please comment - especially if there are any problems with this idea.
> Please also comment if you support this edit, in case of no response
> at all edit will not be made as there would be no evidence that
> this idea is supported.
>
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[OSM-talk] New data center status for openstreetmap.org?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I can't seem to find any 2018 minutes online for the Operations Working
Group. An RFQ for a new data center was sent out in February 2018.

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-centre-2018/

Given that the previous/current data center space is donated, I am curious
to know if the situation is under control. Was a bid received that is
affordable within the current revenue levels of the OSMF? Is there any risk
to keeping www.openstreetmap.org running?

Jason
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM SPAM detector

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Dave,

The detector needs to be "trained" on what a spam changeset looks like
versus what a normal changeset looks like. Training really means
programming the detector by example.

Once we have a good set of example changesets, going forward, it will find
them on its own.

Rather than having me or Fredrick decide what is SPAM is or not, getting a
diverse set of changeset from many people will insure that the algorithm is
not biased relative to where the consensus is in the project. That is why I
posed this to talk not dev. People that map are needed for this task.

Finally, this is just a software component. It will still need to be
integrated into final end user tools. By doing the specialized machine
learning code first, I am hoping to get some collaborators that are
interested in integrating this into tools that everybody can use. But
without the curated changeset list, it is going nowhere. Long term,
hopefully it will get integrated into several tools...

Jason

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Struggling to understand this
> If users are expected to send you changeset ids, how does it "detect spam"?
> In what way are users informed of spammy changesets?
>
> DaveF
>
>
> On 05/03/2018 14:06, Jason Remillard wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This weekend I put together a SPAM detector for OSM changesets.
>
> https://github.com/jremillard/osm-changeset-classification
>
> You don't need to be a developer to contribute, send over any SPAM'y
> changesets you come across via a github issue, a pull request, or even an
> email to me. I just need the changeset id.
>
> The code is currently hitting 99+% accuracy detecting the difference
> between 1500 random normal edits and 1500 sketchy changesets that Fredrick
> shared with the talk-us last last week. This is with zero tuning, so it
> looks like it will work well.
>
> Jason
>
>
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[OSM-talk] OSM SPAM detector

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

This weekend I put together a SPAM detector for OSM changesets.

https://github.com/jremillard/osm-changeset-classification

You don't need to be a developer to contribute, send over any SPAM'y
changesets you come across via a github issue, a pull request, or even an
email to me. I just need the changeset id.

The code is currently hitting 99+% accuracy detecting the difference
between 1500 random normal edits and 1500 sketchy changesets that Fredrick
shared with the talk-us last last week. This is with zero tuning, so it
looks like it will work well.

Jason
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Re: [Talk-us] Help fight advertising

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Frederik


> * Should we have some MapRoulette task or OSMCha automatism or OSMI view
> to detect potential advertising?
>
>
>
Detecting these change sets should be quite straightforward. Here is a
Keras sample that could be easily modified to process change sets. The
model in this example is tiny and could easily be run over all of the
change sets every day with a normal laptop, with no GPU.

https://github.com/keras-team/keras/blob/master/examples/pretrained_word_embeddings.py

The machine learning people are always hungry for more curated datasets.

You have done the hard work already by curating a list of spamy changesets.
Make a central place where we could keep a list of changesets that are
spam, so that if people are interested in writing a changeset spam
detector, the time consuming part is done already.

A github repository with a two CSV file or json file that has the changeset
id, and classification. For now (spam, good), and a python script to
download the changeset dumps and lookup the age/changeset count of the user
into a local directory would be enough.

12455662,spam
12555662,spam
1245155,good

them a

download.py file, downloads and writes out data/spam/,xml and
data/good/.xml

etc

After we have a bot(s) screening all of the change sets for spam, then many
things are possible.

Jason
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Grant,

If you read Serge's post, he is quite clear on what his preferred
solution to this resourcing problem. Our tiles and Nominatim services
should have terms of services that include paid higher levels that
support the foundation, which in turn pays for the infrastructure.
When somebody is using too many tiles, or using too much of Nominatim
resources, or wants Nominatim to work better, etc, before chasing them
away, the foundation should ask them for money to support the
requested services.

There is plenty of money around this space to pay for a full time
system administrator staff and some developers. Pokémon Go netted 600
million dollars in the first three months. Mapbox just go $164 million
dollar investment. I don't understand why you, Tom, lonvia are not
paid, full time employees of OSMF by now. Mapbox is doing a great job
with ID development, but obviously they are not going to seriously
fund our tiles and geocoding.

There is a great need for what OSM does, we just need to ask for
money, rather than acting like a charity, begging for handouts.

Jason


> Nominatim effectively only has 1 maintainer / primary contributor:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/Nominatim/graphs/contributors
> lonvia spends a significant amount of her volunteered time defending
> the service again abusers.
> https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/nominatim/
> Single users can overload nominatim by sending 1000s of automated
> requests per second, the same holds true for the tile servers we run:
> https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/
>
> Nearly as bad contribution wise is the server infrastructure code:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/graphs/contributors
>
> What we badly need is more help from developers and chef operations people.
>
> How about someone in the community organises a Beauty Parade / Cross
> Comparison of different open OpenStreetMap GeoCoders?
>
> The OpenStreetMap Operations team prefers to be able to self-host the
> infrastructure required to run OpenStreetMap.org. Reasons: Privacy /
> Maintainability / Availability. We don't go this route for a
> navigation / router as they seem to be under constant flux, without a
> clear "winner" and system their requirements keep climbing.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Grant
>
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[OSM-talk] AI With Satellite Images for OpenStreetMap

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Microsoft this week granted permission to use the Bing satellite images for
nonprofit AI projects that are contributing to OSM. Mapbox has indicated
that they are also on board  (with some conditions/restrictions). I think
this pretty big deal for OSM. If you are interested in this kind of stuff,
I wrote a longish diary entry about what it might mean.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jremillard/diary/43294

Jason
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Re: [Talk-us] US Sports Fields Import

[Jason Remillard]

Hello,

Before I started this project in November I contacted the Bing
licensing group, described my intentions, and asked for a developer
key. They responded by giving me instructions on how to get a
developer key.

I imagine they don't get many requests like this and it turns out they
didn't understand what I was asking them. Today I was contacted by
Microsoft with the news that they are not sure if the upstream
licenses they have with the satellite image vendors allows them to
grant OSM permission to do this kind of project.

The good news is that they indicated that they are going to try to
grant permission for this use case for OSM. The issue has been
escalated into the legal team at MS.

I am sure Microsoft will communicate with us when they decide what to
do, until then we have to wait.

Jason

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Rory McCann <r...@technomancy.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is very interesting! And it's great to see some source code. I'd be
> tempted to try this myself on things I'm interested in.
>
> You mentioned that Microsoft has given permission for this, is that just
> for your one specific thing, or can any OSMer run this on their area?
> Can you post the documentation with the permission?
>
> Since you're importing the resultant file into OSM, this isn't really
> relevant, but you say "The two final output files are in the public
> domain.". Surely these output files are basically derived from existing
> OSM data, and would be under the ODbL?
>
> I haven't looked at your data, or tried to run the code myself, but I'd
> like to do it sometime.
>
> Rory
>
> On 30/12/17 20:51, Jason Remillard wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have trained a neural network to find baseball, basketball, and
>> baseball fields in satellite images. It was trained using OSM and bing
>> tiles. Using the neural network I have mapped 2,800 new fields in the
>> US northeast, I would like to import the missing fields back into OSM.
>>
>> Wiki project page :
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_Sports_Fields_Import_2018
>> Github: https://github.com/jremillard/images-to-osm
>>
>> Details
>>
>> In November of 2017 all of the mapped baseball, basketball, and tennis
>> courts in Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and
>> Pennsylvania were used to train a neural network.
>>
>> The import data was created by
>>
>> Running the neural network over the training Bing satellite images to
>> identify the missing sports fields from OSM. Fields found by the
>> network but not in OSM are passed to the next step.
>>
>> A visual QA script shows the newly mapped features over the Bing
>> satellite images, the user approves or rejects the edits. I rejected
>> any way that wasn't an excellent match to the satellite images.
>>
>> The final OSM files are created from the ways selected by myself in
>> the visual QA script.
>>
>> The ways are tagged with leisure=pitch, plus the sport=* tag.
>>
>> The changeset tags will be comment="Imported data, phase 1,
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_Sports_Fields_Import_2018;, and
>> source="Bing", import=yes
>>
>> The jremillard-import account will be used to upload the 2 osm files.
>> The OSM files are already split to be under the 10,000 item limit on a
>> changeset. They will be uploaded with josm.
>>
>> Prior to starting the project I emailed Microsoft bing licensing group
>> describing the project and received approval to use the Bing satellite
>> images for this purpose. Also, the QA script qualifies as a visual
>> editor in the existing OSM Bing license. The two final output files
>> are in the public domain.
>>
>> Post Import Cleanup - Some imported ways may overlap with existing OSM
>> data. Specifically, any sport fields added since November, sports
>> fields that are tagged incorrectly, and sport fields that is a
>> relation might overlap with the uploaded data. After the files are
>> uploaded, all of the ways, and relations with the sport= tag will be
>> checked for overlaps and manually fixed. It is expected that just a
>> handful of issues will be found in the post cleanup.
>>
>> Jason
>>
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[Talk-us] US Sports Fields Import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I have trained a neural network to find baseball, basketball, and
baseball fields in satellite images. It was trained using OSM and bing
tiles. Using the neural network I have mapped 2,800 new fields in the
US northeast, I would like to import the missing fields back into OSM.

Wiki project page :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_Sports_Fields_Import_2018
Github: https://github.com/jremillard/images-to-osm

Details

In November of 2017 all of the mapped baseball, basketball, and tennis
courts in Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and
Pennsylvania were used to train a neural network.

The import data was created by

Running the neural network over the training Bing satellite images to
identify the missing sports fields from OSM. Fields found by the
network but not in OSM are passed to the next step.

A visual QA script shows the newly mapped features over the Bing
satellite images, the user approves or rejects the edits. I rejected
any way that wasn't an excellent match to the satellite images.

The final OSM files are created from the ways selected by myself in
the visual QA script.

The ways are tagged with leisure=pitch, plus the sport=* tag.

The changeset tags will be comment="Imported data, phase 1,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_Sports_Fields_Import_2018;, and
source="Bing", import=yes

The jremillard-import account will be used to upload the 2 osm files.
The OSM files are already split to be under the 10,000 item limit on a
changeset. They will be uploaded with josm.

Prior to starting the project I emailed Microsoft bing licensing group
describing the project and received approval to use the Bing satellite
images for this purpose. Also, the QA script qualifies as a visual
editor in the existing OSM Bing license. The two final output files
are in the public domain.

Post Import Cleanup - Some imported ways may overlap with existing OSM
data. Specifically, any sport fields added since November, sports
fields that are tagged incorrectly, and sport fields that is a
relation might overlap with the uploaded data. After the files are
uploaded, all of the ways, and relations with the sport= tag will be
checked for overlaps and manually fixed. It is expected that just a
handful of issues will be found in the post cleanup.

Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Jason Remillard]

Hi

It is my opinion that removing imported non standard tags is almost always
ok.

It has been 10 years since tiger was imported, any effort to maintain it
should be welcomed. We own it now, no script is comming to automatically
update it.

You might want to run it as an automated edit.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct

Jason

On Saturday, June 10, 2017, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

> I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from
> Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a few
> other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is
> currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass
> edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it was
> touched since the tiger import.
>
> (1) https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tiger:zip_left#map
>
> *Regards,*
>
> *Hans*
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Green Mountain National Forest cleanup

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Kevin,

hstore support, which would allow rendering boundary=protected_area is
being actively worked on the main style sheet. Its coming...

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1504
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1975

Otherwise, I agree with your logic on tagging.

Jason


On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Kevin Kenny 
wrote:

> My big issue with this is that we - alas! - need to have something "tagged
> for the renderer."
>
> Over on the other side of Lake Champlain and the Taconics, we have the
> same problem with the Catskill and Adirondack Parks, which are protected
> areas with an immense public-private partnership. (Something over half the
> Adirondack Park is owned by New York State, and the rest is quite
> restrictively administered by the Adirondack Park Agency. Its level of
> protection exceeds that of any of our National Parks.)
>
> The problem is that boundary=protected_area does not render in any of the
> map layers available from openstreetmap.org. People editing
> protected_area's cannot see their results on the server, and newcomers to
> OSM don't even know that we have them in the database.
>
> I'd say that the answer is, "fix the renderer" - and surely
> Mapnik/Carto/... can handle it, since I use that toolchain to render my own
> maps. The underlying issue is that to fix it in any of the default
> renderings (OSM default, OpenCycleMap, etc.), 'hstore' would have to be
> enabled on the server's database to get the 'protect_class' tag into the
> system. For whatever reason, the server team has balked at doing this for
> quite literally several years. I do not expect this situation to resolve in
> my lifetime,. and I have ceased to request any support for protected area
> rendering. Instead, I do most of my own rendering on maps such as
> http://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test3.html, and accept the fact that I
> will have a day or two delay in being able to retrieve any updates. (I
> don't have the resources to accept minutely updates, so I depend on the
> daily extracts at geofabrik.de. Often, I let my map fall several months
> behind, when I'm not actively mapping).
>
> Most US mappers have simply accepted that the renderer will not be fixed.
> The compromise that I used when reworking the Adirondack Park polygons was
> not well received on this list, but at least nobody reverted the changes.
> In that compromise solution:
>
> - the Adirondack and Catskill Parks as a whole were tagged
> boundary=national_park. This tagging is close to the truth except that it
> is New York State rather than a nation-state that administers it. Given the
> US principle of separate sovereignty, I'm willing to live with this.
>
> - the individual state (and in the case of the Catskills, New York City)
> owned parcels received the additional tagging of 'leisure=nature_reserve'
> plus appropriate 'protected_area' tagging. That way, they are correct in
> the new scheme and still render plausibly. 'Nature reserves' encompass many
> different things, so I wasn't too uncomfortable with this tagging.
>
> - I seriously attempted to make appropriate choices for 'protect_class'
> and related tags. This sometimes meant up-classifying relative to the IUCN
> database. IUCN wants to classify the Adirondack and Catskill holdings no
> higher than protect_class=6, because they don't enjoy national-level
> protection. That's again a failure to understand the US legal system; the
> State-level protection that they enjoy is far stronger than any Federal
> protection: these two parks are read into the state constitution. I was
> entirely comfortable giving the High Peaks or West Canada Lake wilderness
> areas protect_class=1b. They are indeed protected wilderness, where Man is
> a visitor who does not remain.
>
> The result of the compromise is, as you can see:
>
> - everything renders on the main page. The parks are at least visible.
> (There has been at least one round with the National Forests that rendered
> them entirely invisible.)
>
> - the 'landuse=forest' tag is not abused. There is no green infill on
> tracts that are not forested. The system still presumes that
> 'landuse=forest' means 'every square metre covered by trees - and cannot
> cope with the idea of 'the landowner's intent is to use the tract for
> forestry, but this particular bit, this year, is occupied by beavers' -
> according to the OSM purists, that's no longer 'forest'. (For this reason,
> I find 'landuse=forest' to be nearly useless: all the 'forest' tracts that
> I've ever mapped have transient or permanent phenomena meaning that
> individual pieces may be clearcut, bare rock, or open water at a particular
> time.)
>
> - the 'leisure=nature_reserve' tag is only slightly abused. A wilderness
> area, a wildlife management region, or a protected watershed (all of which
> permit recreational use) are all reserved to nature, and no US English
> speaker would be astonished 

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Boston, MA, USA addr:housenumber Import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Roman,

The city of Boston building data set for buildings has address.

http://bostonopendata.boston.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/492746f09dde475285b01ae7fc95950e_1

It seems like they have already figured out what address goes on what
building. Should this data set be used rather than the parcel data
set?

The licensing link says the following, it is kind of weird.

"The City of Boston recognizes the value and benefit gained by sharing
GIS data. Although the City has made reasonable efforts to provide
accurate data, the City makes no representations or guarantees about
the accuracy, completeness, or currency of the information provided.
The City of Boston provides this data as is and with all faults, and
makes no warranty of any kind. Each user is responsible for
determining the suitability of the data for their intended use or
purpose. Neither the City nor its affiliates, employees, or agents
shall be liable for any loss or injury caused in whole or in part by
use of any data obtained from this website. The GIS data is updated
and modified on a regular basis and users are encouraged to report any
errors to the City."

I suggest that you move forward with the building splitting, since it
is a manual process, it can proceed like a normal mapping activity.
While the buildings are being cut up, we can work on address import
and make sure it is good shape.  Before I would be comfortable with
the import, I would like to see some sample OSM files we can load into
JOSM to look over.

Jason


On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Roman Yepishev  wrote:
> Hi, all! Going back to the point...
>
> I stopped linking to the .osn files in order to minimize the confusion.
>
> Instead, every neighborhood gets their .gpx file with the details of
> the issues encountered at that particular address:
>  - Building is missing.
>  - Building has more than one address.
>  - Building has a street name that is not known to OSM or has not been
> added to the mapping.
>
> This will allow locating the issues quicker while surveying.
>
> I have also generated the .pbf file containing the last export of US,
> MA from Geofabrik + unique house numbers. Since I am using OsmAnd, I
> have also generated the .obf map. Basically, that's how OSM would look
> like if the current list of changes is applied.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Boston_Street_Address_Manage
> ment_%28SAM%29_Import#OSM_Data_Files
>
> There was a question of the data accuracy earlier - I've spent the last
> 3 days spot-checking the building numbers and I have to say they are
> pretty accurate. Some buildings, however, have picked one number from
> the range assigned, and this will have to be rectified manually as
> well. The data from Boston Tax Parcel may help with that, but it's
> license is not completely clear.
>
> I found a couple of issues while generating the datasets/surveying the
> locations:
>  * Some of the addresses from MassGIS point to parks, monuments, or
> buildings are located a few feet away. While it may possible to assign
> the marker to the building nearby, I'd prefer not to do the guess work
> and leave it for refining in the future.
>  * Original OSM street names must have been imported from MassGIS
> roads, and a few of these don't correspond to the signs (something as
> minor as Conry Crescent Street vs Conry Crescent or slightly more
> interesting Glenvale Terrace vs Chestnut Terrace). So there are
> clusters of buildings in .gpx file pointing to possible street naming
> issues, which will have to be manually correlated with the signs on the
> streets.
>  * Multipolygon buildings are not supported by my script, so there will
> be up to 48 'missing building' false positives for the whole Boston.
>
> Overall, I feel pretty good about the quality of the data and would
> like to hear more about issues that I may have missed.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Roman Yepishev
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Boston, MA, USA addr:housenumber Import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Roman ,

- The source addresses uses abbreviations (RD, ST,etc)  are you expanding them?
- The source addresses are capitalized, are you fixing that?
- How are you dealing with multiple addresses per building
- How are you dealing with multiple buildings per address.
- Unless you are working full time on this two weeks seems like not
enough time, it is 380,000 addresses.
- The source data contains the building heights, you might want to
import that in too.
- I would like to see a sample osm/osc files.

Thanks
Jason



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Roman Yepishev  wrote:
> (re-posting to both mailing lists since I failed to subscribe to
> imports@ before sending)
>
> Hello OpenStreetMap folks,
>
> TL;DR: import wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Bos
> ton_Street_Address_Management_%28SAM%29_Import
>
> Boston, Massachusetts is relatively well mapped, however the buildings
> usually lack addr:housenumber and addr:street tags.
>
> Since the city is not built on a grid-based design, the streets can
> wander around making finding the right house with OpenStreetMap a
> challenge. City of Boston provides a sizable amount of data via Open
> Government initiative. One of the things available freely is a Live
> Street Address Management (SAM) dataset[1] that identifies the location
> of the buildings on the map. We can use that.
>
> As requested by Guidelines[2], I am writing to imports@ and talk-us@ to
> discuss the outlined import procedure for the data. I will be driving
> the generation, upload, and validation.
>
> The wiki page contains the data on all the neighborhoods (sans 2 that
> for some reason did not create a polygon - I'm investigating that), so
> you can load it locally and see what's going to happen. Please do not
> upload these changes.
>
> My username is 'ryebread' on OSM, User:Rye on OSM Wiki.
>
> [1]: http://www.cityofboston.gov/open/
> [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Roman Yepishev
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails

[Jason Remillard]

Hi

 I'd therefor like to propose that abandoned railways be treated like
 borders.  Even if you can't see it along a given stretch there are people
 who can and they have put a huge amount of effort into that work.  Lets
 respect that and strengthen the community rather than deleting it and doing
 the opposite.

I 100% agree. The amount of data required to map abandoned railroads
is tiny. An occasional way through a new development is not going to
hurt anybody or impair normal mapping activity.

Apparently, the people that like to map railroads think OSM is the
best place to do this. We are not in any position to be chasing them
off. OSM has a long, long way to go still. Above all else, it needs to
more active mappers if we are serious about being the best map for the
entire world. Also, It seems likely they are also mapping non
controversial things like roads while working on the railroads.

Dave F, OSM is doing just fine. It is full of contradictions,
redundancies, disagreements, and broken rules (see the tagging list).
It is not some kind of business database that requires normalization,
strict schema definitions, and vigilant protection. It can't have any
once sentence rules defining its boundaries. It is a great big blank
sheet of paper, relax and let the railroad people draw on it a bit.
Nobody is going to get hurt.

Jason

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[OSM-talk] Bing satellite tiles

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Given the recent large changes to Microsoft's bing mapping group, is osm at
risk for losing access to the bing (uber?) satellite tiles? It is a pretty
important resource to osm.

Jason
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Re: [Talk-us] Tesla Supercharger import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Charles,

 tag k='capacity' v='6' /
 tag k='socket:tesla_supercharger' v='6' /
 tag k='name' v='Tesla Supercharger Harris Ranch' /
 tag k='addr:city' v='Coalinga' /
 tag k='tesla:ref' v='harrisranchsupercharger' /

This telsa:ref tag seem weird, should probably be just ref, or
ref:telsa if the value is a db key. However, given the stations have
names + location, it is not needed to keep the data updated. Consider
dropping it.

You need to get permission. They might not want to encourage the data
being duplicated in OSM.

Please review the import policy, you need to setup an OSM wiki page
documenting the import. Also, it would be a good idea to be on the
import list.

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [OSM-talk] Keeping imported data updated with source changes

[Jason Remillard]

 Hi Wiktor,

I don't think an address tag is needed or desirable.

The best way of doing this is to compare versions of the official data
(perhaps every 6 months), making a list of things that have changed so
that they can be examined in OSM.

Of coarse the big issue is that the matching is not trivial. First
devise a matching score combining of distance to address, and edit
distance in the address name and number. These scores are the weights.
Then use one of the weighted bipartite graph matching algorithm
(augmented path) that works well on sparse data. If you keep the
search radius down, the graph will be very sparse, so should be
manageable. Using the match, you can get a list of nodes that have
been moved, deleted, and edited in the official data set.

Jason

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Wiktor Niesiobedzki o...@vink.pl wrote:
 Hi,

 In Poland we have quite a few addresses imported from government
 sources for quite long time, but as time goes on, changes are made to
 the source databases, and local communities don't have any viable
 tools, to track, what has changed in source. In case of city of
 Skarżysko-Kamienna, local mapper tried hard to track all the changes
 in source (as well as check this on site), but still, missed a lot of
 changes, and as it's now - there is no tooling to help such users.

 What I'd like to do, is to prepare a service, that will generate
 changes for OSM containing differences for each municipality, so local
 mapper can load, review and decide what to import.

 But this tool, to be efficient, needs additional information to be
 stored in OSM - identifier of the object in the source database, for
 which i propose tag: ref:addr.

 This tag is used for both identifying what was already imported, as
 well as, I'd like to create a protocol, that if there are some wrong
 data in the import source, we would leave a point in OSM containing:
 addr:ref
 source:addr

 So we can instruct further imports, to skip this point, unless there
 will be some change in source data.

 I find this solution most robust, as it gives great Signal-to-Noise
 ratio for local mappers, when they are identifying what needs to be
 updated, as well as, gives as resilience when someone accidentally
 deletes some address.

 In Poland there thousands of people employed by government to keep
 this data in good quality and using OSM community to duplicate their
 work is in my opinion - wasteful. Using this method, we can use their
 work, and use OSM community to improve the data, that government is
 sourcing. And this is something we should consider for all of the
 imports.

 We had some discussion about this already in Polish community, but as
 it seems, it might be philosophical change for this project, I'd like
 to raise this issue on global level.

 Apart from addresses I plan to start importing national heritage
 objects, for which I see exactly the same problem.

 The other solution that we discussed in our community is to keep track
 of import source state in separate database, and use this, to see what
 has changed in source, to generate files for local mappers, but I see
 following disadvantages of such solution:
 - such solution doesn't take into account current state of objects in
 OSM, what may generate duplicates or miss data, that were accidentally
 deleted
 - it makes harder to fork OSM project, as you need to fork two
 databases, know about them, and the license for such database should
 be open
 - it still needs some protocol to this database, to mark that import
 was done (and in what extent) - it would require additional tooling
 and might be additional problem to causual mappers, and probably would
 render the tool unusable
 - it gives no tools for integrity with OSM databases
 - needs additional support


 The disadvantages of my solution, that I found most concerning were:
 - nodes contaning only ref:addr and source:addr might be hard to
 understand by newcomers, especially that ref:addr doesn't contain any
 human-understandable data
 - ref:addr might get clobbered during merge of nodes

 But I hope that with extensive description on Wiki we can handle that 
 problems.

 Cheers,

 Wiktor Niesiobędzki

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Re: [OSM-talk] Keeping imported data updated with source changes

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Wiktor,

If you want to automated this, you will need a database outside of
OSM, that stores the matches between the municipiality and OSM
addresses. the municipal differences over time, the OSM differences
over time. The same underlying matching algorithm previously described
is used to create the osm to municipal matches, differences in the
municipal data over time, and differences in OSM over time. Good
automation opportunities exist when you see previously matching OSM
and municipal data, diverging on the municipal side. Conflicting data
(divergent changes made to both OSM and municipal data) could be
ignored, or feed into a some kind of manual pipline like the task
manager, MapRoulette, or a QA tool. If you can get a copy of of the
older address data that was actually imported, you should be able to
mostly automate catching OSM up. I don't really see any way of
automating divergent changes, since it will be impossible for the
software to know which side it better.  This is all normal
diff/merging type concepts, except rather than text files, the fuzzy
matching algorithm is generating the diffs.

Thanks
Jason


On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Wiktor Niesiobedzki o...@vink.pl wrote:
 2015-01-10 16:44 GMT+01:00 Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com:
  Hi Wiktor,

 I don't think an address tag is needed or desirable.

 The best way of doing this is to compare versions of the official data
 (perhaps every 6 months), making a list of things that have changed so
 that they can be examined in OSM.

 To compare only changes in the source, I need to know, what was
 imported to OSM first. And without any reference in OSM, how do I
 guess the baseline? I could just check what's new for last 6 months
 (for example - previous half of calendar year), but then - we still
 need some tooling to verify, if someone actually did it during this
 time and present backlog for specific areas. We have very uneven
 distribution of mappers between geographic areas.

 And this way, I may fail to identify nodes, that were deleted in the
 source (not all sources report deleted nodes).


 Of coarse the big issue is that the matching is not trivial. First
 devise a matching score combining of distance to address, and edit
 distance in the address name and number. These scores are the weights.
 Then use one of the weighted bipartite graph matching algorithm
 (augmented path) that works well on sparse data. If you keep the
 search radius down, the graph will be very sparse, so should be
 manageable. Using the match, you can get a list of nodes that have
 been moved, deleted, and edited in the official data set.

 But how should I handle such real scenario:
 - address is created in municipality
 - mapper adds it on a map
 - the script runs, sees a new address, finds a nearby address, but if
 there are some difference (different street or something like that) -
 should it update, or skip it? According to the rules so far, when I
 have a change in source, I should update the OSM, but this might not
 be the case here.

 And - from algoritmic point of view it looks exactly the same as scenario:
 - address is created in municipality
 - address is imported to OSM
 - street change in address by municipiality
 - the script runs


 Cheers,

 Wiktor

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Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM.
It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software
that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files
released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of
the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM
address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good
OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be
optimized.

Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I
assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress
project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage
getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to
go.

Jason

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Agreed.  Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is
 some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that
 project.

 On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen
 jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote:


 With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really
 be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing
 addresses from this master address database into OSM later.


 Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to
 OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

This is an unhappy read. I am stunned that the board members don't
have access to the bank registers. How can any decisions be made about
the servers, STOM, fundraising effectiveness, etc without having a
handle on the cash? The foundation handles so little money, it should
be very simple keeping the bank registers up to date. Could our
treasure, Oliver Kühn , please justify this policy on the talk list. I
am going to be very reluctant to give more money to the foundation
until this policy is changed.

Jason


 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Frederik_Ramm/2014_OSMF_Board_Elections_Manifesto

 This sheds some rather bad light on how the board operates, indicating
 that
 some of the practises border on the illigal. I understand that this is the
 individual opinion of a single board member but I believe it is important
 that such accusations are discussed because I don't see how the board can
 operate efficiently otherwise. It is even more important in the light of
 the upcoming elections. Reading this manifesto indicates that there is
 little point in standing for election as there is nothing but frustration
 to achieve in the board.


 As a former board member, I would concur with Frederik's posting which
 tallies with my unhappy experience on the board.

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Re: [Talk-us] Merging NYC buildings

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,


 the building to the east. In this case it was the tax parcel and multiple
 address that indicate two buildings not one.

We have a the MA state tax parcel data as a translucent imaging layer
hosted on the US OSM. It can be used in JOSM, and it useful for all
kinds of things. Perhaps, the same could be done for NY city.

Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] routing tags used by actual routing applications

[Jason Remillard]

 Hi Martijn,

I think it would be fine to put a scout section into the routing tag page.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing

It should not be much text to describe what tags are used.

Also, following the rest of this thread, the track/surface/etc tagging
situation is very confusing.

Thanks
Jason




On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Jason Remillard
 remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Playing around with scout, I have discovered that it will not route
 over tracks, cycleways, and paths unless you are in pedestrian mode.
 It ignores access=destination, and the surface tag.

 Scout does not route cars over cycleways and paths for reasons that I
 think should be obvious. Tracks are not excluded but have a high cost
 (low assigned speed) so they will not typically get routed across if
 there's a more convenient option available.

 We do take into account surface= and use it to adjust edge weight.

 Not entirely sure about access=destination, will need to check!

 Like I said, I am compiling information to put on the OSM wiki on how
 we use tags / elements for Scout. Where should it go? As a subpage of
 the 'tags used for routing' page mentioned elsewhere?

 --
 Martijn van Exel
 OSM data specialist
 Telenav
 http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel
 http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel

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[Talk-us] routing tags used by actual routing applications

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Would it be possible for somebody from telenav/scout/skobbler to
update this page, or make a new wiki page describing what tagging is
actually used to determine if a way is considered for a route?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing

Playing around with scout, I have discovered that it will not route
over tracks, cycleways, and paths unless you are in pedestrian mode.
It ignores access=destination, and the surface tag.

Similarly to how default tile server shapes tagging, scout, skobbler ,
osmand, etc, and the other widely used OSM routing applications will
inevitably shape tagging. It would be useful to document what the
mainstream routing application are actually doing rather than
guessing.

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] routing tags used by actual routing applications

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Martin,

Some of the highway tag values are not clear. For example, scout does
not route over highway=tracks, unless you are in pedestrian mode. It
seems like a reasonable decision, perhaps all of the routers do this,
but the wiki documentation says nothing of the sort, and it surprised
me. If I see some weird route, related to missing highway=track tag,
should I change the osm data, file a bug into scout, edit the
highway=track wiki? I have no idea.

A start would be to have the 3 or 4 popular routers document what they
are doing with the tags, since the code is proprietary, and then it
will be easier to sort out who to blame when a bad route is generated.

Jason


 OK for individual applications to document what they are (currently) using, 
 but this is probably dynamic over time. From a mapping perspective you should 
 describe the road network as best as you can to meet actual reality and not 
 tag for a single application. Rather file a bug for scout or others to fix 
 their rules if some correctly tagged road is not (yet) taken into account...

 cheers,
 Martin

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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: USBRS WikiProject seeks volunteer mappers

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Bike Route 1 on Cape Cod, MA is signed. I saw a bunch of them last
summer biking around on vacation.

In my opinion at this point the new routes should go through the
import process, but given that signs are already up, and over time
more are sure to come, I don't see any problem having the data in OSM.

Jason

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 6:30 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 Russ,

 My opinion is that this is a single data source issue. Unlike other
 data that we collect, there is nothing in the ground indicating the
 existence of this as a route. There's no sign indicating where the
 route is, so there's be no way to collect this data other than by
 looking at an external dataset and either importing or tracing.

 I think that's an import, because it's taking external data and
 applying it to OSM without even the potential for ground validation.

 I did mess up in that I needed to have stated, and will state now,
 that I was not talking from the position of the DWG.


 We have a lot of data that we could include in OSM that would be
 useful. Every so often someone wants to add property lines. I think
 those would be potentially interesting, but unsurveyable. These bike
 routes are similar. There's nothing on the ground that tells you that
 you're on the particular bus route- which means that the only
 definitive answer we could have about a bus route is some external
 dataset. If two OSMers disagree, the answer will always be What does
 the original data say? - rather than What does the ground look
 like? - right?

 I think that this kind of data doesn't belong in OSM. It's not
 something that lends itself well to OSM. It think it could be mixed in
 during rendering or for routing, but it doesn't belong in OSM proper.

 The issue of tracing vs importing is orthogonal to this question.

 - Serge

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Re: [talk-au] [Imports] Proposed Data import - Queensland, Australia: Peaks and Mountains

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Attribution, source, source_ref should go on the change set.
Round ele value to a meter, 657.003999554 should be 657
I think The attribution, should go here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors ?

Otherwise, everything else looks ok.

Thanks
Jason



On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Christopher Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote:
 Hi,
 I'd like to propose a small data import of ~2500 nodes describing peaks and 
 mountains in Queensland sourced from Qld govt Place names Gazetteer.

 I've had a look at the data to import, and also the existing OSM nodes, and 
 think this could be a viable.  There would be manual review required before 
 uploading, especially to ensure we do not duplicate the existing ~500 nodes, 
 but feel it could be worth it as we are unlikely to get the data any other 
 way for the more remote parts of the state.

 I've documented the proposed import steps on the wiki here:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Peaks_And_Mountains_Import

 That page also has links to relevant data files I have created for review.

 Please let me have your feedback on this proposal.

 Regards,
 Chas
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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks as footpaths

[Jason Remillard]

Hi

I think highway=footway for a sidewalk is 100% ok. Also I get the
impression that the tagging is not settled yet either.

Jason

On Wednesday, April 30, 2014, William Morris wboyk...@geosprocket.com
wrote:

 Is there a general OSM policy on marking sidewalks as highway=footway?
 User dolphinling appears to have gone crazy in downtown Burlington,VT
 tracing the sidewalks and calling them footways. Which wouldn't be a
 problem if footways weren't so cartographically distinct in everyone's
 stylesheets:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/44.47772/-73.21112

 Should I:

 1. Revert
 2. Get in touch with the editor
 3. Get over it

 Thanks!

 -Bill Morris
 @vtcraghead


 --
 William Morris | Cartographer
 (802)-870-0880 | geosprocket.io | GeoSprocket LLC, Burlington VT

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] fleet manager speed limit import proposal (Canada, USA)

[Jason Remillard]

 Hi Richard,

- Is it possible to get the way version number in the output file?
Otherwise, if the drivers are using older map data, we might overwrite
more recent corrections.
- Will the data have duplicate change requests on the same way id from
different drivers, so we can get some kind of voting?

Thanks
Jason



On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
 Outline:
 A proposal for improvement of the maxspeed tag by including posted
 speed limit data from managers of vehicle fleets.

 Status:
 Initial consultation and discussion

 Introduction:
 I have a source for posted speed limit data.  This thread begins the
 discussion of the data, the origin and quality of the data, and the
 suitability of the data to OpenStreetMap.

 If the data is found to meet the requirements for inclusion in
 OpenStreetMap, it is expected that the discussion will continue and
 determine the best method(s) for including that data.

 The extent of the data is Canada and USA.  If you are reading this
 email on talk-us or talk-ca, and you are deeply interested in the
 preliminary details, please join imports@ and reply there.

 Updates:
 There will be future email to the local lists after initial
 consultation on imports@, if this project is found to meet
 OpenStreetMap requirements.

 Best Regards and Happy Mapping,

 Richard

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[Talk-us] Any foursquare/OSM editing update? How about Craigslist?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Richard Fairhurst, posted an blog about attributing OSM this weekd.

http://blog.systemed.net//post/7

Beyond attributing OSM, hopefully our large commercial users can take
it a step further and provide a way of editing OSM from their user
interface. For example, in August, Foursquare announced they were
going to build in editing interface.

https://www.mapbox.com/blog/connecting-foursquare-openstreetmap/

I was interested in how that is going?

Also, in the same train of thought, It would be fantastic if
Craigslist could have an OSM edit button. If that is not possible, how
about at least updating the Craigslist tiles more often. Right now
Craigslist updates the tiles once a month. Even if a very motivated
Craigslist users understands what OSM is, that they can make an edit
in osm.org, and have it show up in Craigslist's maps, the slow tile
updates make it impossible to actually fix the map for a specific
Craigslist listing. There is no reason for a Craigslist user to update
OSM, if they can't get the map fixed in *their* listing.

Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] Any foursquare/OSM editing update? How about Craigslist?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

For Foursquare, I am interested in knowing if it has been rolled out
everywhere, do they have any idea how much the edit button has been
pressed, and if it has caused any support burden or other unexpected
problems. As a baseline, hopefully adding the edit button does not
harm...

  Of course the point can't be
 editing a map -- there has to be something to lure in your average
 user.

I assert, that there are CL users that would be motivated for
themselves at fixing issues on the map. Check this note out.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/8602

At the time the OSM did not have the two lakes. The CL user was trying
to rent/sell a property that is on a lake, but the lake is not in the
map, big problem! Even if they figured out that fixing this on
osm.org, also fixes it in CL, the slow tile update cycle means that
the fix would in fact not appear back in CL in time for that specific
listing. It is currently impossible for somebody to fix issues in the
map, and help themselves on CL.

Also, many CL notes notes in OSM are from errors in the address look
up, which is not even OSM data. They say something like the wrong map
is displayed here. There is nothing we can do with them because we
don't know the address that they were searching for and the note is
note placed at the location that address should have been at. All we
know is some address is wrong/missing inside of the this bounding box.
We don't even get a back link to the listing associated with the note.

I think CL could do more without compromising the mission of the company.

Thanks
Jason

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[Talk-us] GNIS updating

[Jason Remillard]

Hello Everybody,

My winter OSM project is to merge all of the imported GNIS reservoir
points in MA with the actual water ways. It is a manual process, I am
about 60% through it. I have been getting very, very familiar with the
GNIS data set. When I find a confusing, wrong GNIS point, or duplicate
point, I have been sending mail to the GNIS administrator via the
gnis_mana...@usgs.gov. It can take a couple of weeks for them to
respond, but when the do, they send back detailed descriptions of what
they found that often results in more corrections back in OSM. If you
find a problematic GNIS node (especially natural feature), you should
consider sending an email to gnis_mana...@usgs.gov as another QA point
for OSM, rather than just deleting it.

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Address Data Import for Fulton County, Georgia

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Saikrishna,

I agree with Serge, we need to be 100% sure the license situation is
straight. Often the data providers say the data is in the public
domain, but in fact, isn't.

Some workflow suggestions
 - In general, you should try to script the workflow from start to
finish. You will be running it many, many times while debugging the
import. The splitting, conversion to OSM, and possibly conflation to
OSM. Many of us on the list would like to look at the code to help
with the QA.
 - ogr2osm allows you to specify an python file on the command line
that can be used to translate the shape file columns to osm tags. I
would look to get things as close as possible with it first. If
needed, then do the rest with the QT program.
 - You should take a look at the addressmerge,
https://github.com/pnorman/addressmerge . Paul's code works without
buildings, it could be a good match.
 - Subscribe to the ny city address import on git hub, review the many
issues they needed to work through. I would also pick a tile from the
ny city import and run the import yourself. You don't need to do it
the same way, but I think it would be useful to be familiar with what
they are doing.
- If you have code to detect differences between the address street
name and the OSM name, you should pull them out and resolve the
differences by hand. Rather than just skipping them. It might be an
opportunity to improve OSM street names.

Things that need to be done that are missing from your wiiki
 - how the uploading is going to happen. If multiple people are going
to do it, they need to be coordinated. Task manager, google spread
sheet, wiki, etc.
 - QA on the data (proper removal of street abbreviations, positional
accuracy).
 - Are you going to fix other things when uploading.
 - You should try to contact any local mappers and ask for help.
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc

Anyway, I suggest converting the data, double check the license, and
see if you can get some local help. When you have some 100% complete,
ready to upload OSM files, post them onto the list again and we can
see how things look.

Thanks
Jason.






On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Saikrishna Arcot saiarcot...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm planning on importing the address data for Fulton County, Georgia from
 the Georgia GIS Clearinghouse. See the wiki page here for review. I've
 included details about the source data, the final tags, and the conditions
 for each address.

 I will be contacting other users who have edited many addresses recently in
 the county regarding the import over the next few days.

 --
 Saikrishna Arcot


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Re: [OSM-talk] Bitcoin Spam

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

This is a good problem to have. The http://coinmap.org/ web site has a
video on how to had POI to OSM. We should ask them to update the
video.

Thanks
Jason.

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

we're seeing a rising number of new ways and nodes which seem to be
 added by people who create an account for just one purpose, namely
 adding a business to the map.

 This could be great - if every business were to add themselves to the
 map, we'd have a nice collection of POIs.

 However, in the case at hand, it seems that the interest is not to
 improve OSM but instead we're just a vehicle for people to show up on
 the coinmap, a business directory for bitcoin-accepting businesses.

 It seems that a name and payment:bitcoin=yes is sufficient for that
 site, with an optional advertising slug in the note tag. But for us,
 not so much. First of all because advertising has no room in OSM; second
 because many of these businesses seem to be not really on the ground
 (but just a mail-order place that wants to have some marker somewhere),
 third because they often don't contain even minimal information that
 would make them useful to us. I've collected these objects created in
 the past couple of days here

 http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/bitcoin.osc

 A few examples:

 node id=252007 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-04T17:56:44Z
 uid=1795331 user=The Tobacco Seed Company changeset=18716456
 lat=51.5442768 lon=0.7236584
   tag k=name v=The Tobacco Seed Company/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=http://www.tobaccoseed.co.uk/
 /node

 This is blatant advertising for a web site. It doesn't even say what
 kind of shop this is supposed to be.

 node id=2523904649 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-08T04:46:05Z
 uid=1798995 user=mkondratov changeset=18776505 lat=41.4183069
 lon=-81.694649
   tag k=name v=Noosphere Ltd, Computer Repair/
   tag k=note v=Computer Repair Services/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=phone v=1-216-459-1994/
   tag k=website v=http://www.noospherecomputers.com/
 /node

 This, too, is little more than a name on our map. We don't usually
 include the field of business in the name - this should have been
 expressed through a proper shop tag.

 node id=2526590372 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-10T15:46:58Z
 uid=1801179 user=79s VOF changeset=18818705 lat=52.372218
 lon=4.8653634
   tag k=name v=79s VOF/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=https://store.79s.co/
 /node

 Spam.

 node id=2537387222 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-18T01:07:54Z
 uid=1809524 user=webhostpl changeset=18964238 lat=50.0727563
 lon=19.8938861
   tag k=domeny v=/
   tag k=hosting v=/
   tag k=name v=Webhost.pl/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=strony internetowe v=/
   tag k=website v=http://www.webhost.pl/
 /node

 Broken tagging (quite frequent).

 node id=2540057545 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-19T18:09:14Z
 uid=1651798 user=oldenburg69 changeset=18998877 lat=36.2026532
 lon=-115.0597195
   tag k=addr:city v=Las Vegas/
   tag k=addr:housenumber v=5216/
   tag k=addr:postcode v=89156/
   tag k=addr:street v=Glendale Ave./
   tag k=name v=Hannig Fab Works/
   tag k=note v=Hannig Fab Works LLC is a custom metal
 fabrication shop specializing in creating high quality metal fixtures,
 custom fabrication and metal art to customers in the Southern Nevada and
 abroad via the internet./
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=http://www.hannigfabworks.com//
 /node

 Tagging is ok as far as the address node is concerned, but without a
 shop tag the rest is kind of useless, and the note tag is not for your
 marketing tagline.

 node id=2548748273 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-24T14:38:32Z
 uid=1817212 user=l337 PLace changeset=19091714 lat=60.1491622
 lon=24.6551426
   tag k=addr:city v=Espoo/
   tag k=addr:housename v=1337Place/
   tag k=addr:housenumber v=4/
   tag k=addr:postcode v=02320/
   tag k=addr:street v=Espoonlahdenkatu/
   tag k=name v=1337place.com (Logistics only)/
   tag k=note v=Quality products shipping worldwide starting
 @5EUR. BeagleBone Black and much more. U can pay with Bitcoin! #BTC
 #Bitcoin/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=phone v=+358466401678/
   tag k=website v=http://www.1337place.com/
 /node

 Whatever BeagleBone Black is, this house is certeinly not called
 1337Place...

node id=2563617422 visible=true version=1 changeset=19261838
 timestamp=2013-12-03T21:42:21Z user=EcoBox uid=1828695
 lat=29.4561384 lon=-98.4193203
   tag k=moving boxes v=moving boxes/
   tag k=name v=EcoBox//node
/node

 What shall I say. The changeset comment contained something about
 accepting bitcoin.

 This is all rather undesirable - people adding their business to OSM
 would be great, but advertising isn't, and we'd prefer if 

Re: [OSM-talk] Bitcoin Spam

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I put on a comment on the u-tube video asking them to add instructions
on how to enter addresses.

The coinmap website uses OSM's other tags like shop/sport/etc for
different icons. They are not encouraging tagless POI's. I suspect
that the person running the coinmap website does not want entities on
the map that don't have any geographics significance either.

There is nothing more going on here other than normal new user stuff
combined with a renderer that is prioritizing getting bitcoins tags
into OSM.

Jason.


On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

we're seeing a rising number of new ways and nodes which seem to be
 added by people who create an account for just one purpose, namely
 adding a business to the map.

 This could be great - if every business were to add themselves to the
 map, we'd have a nice collection of POIs.

 However, in the case at hand, it seems that the interest is not to
 improve OSM but instead we're just a vehicle for people to show up on
 the coinmap, a business directory for bitcoin-accepting businesses.

 It seems that a name and payment:bitcoin=yes is sufficient for that
 site, with an optional advertising slug in the note tag. But for us,
 not so much. First of all because advertising has no room in OSM; second
 because many of these businesses seem to be not really on the ground
 (but just a mail-order place that wants to have some marker somewhere),
 third because they often don't contain even minimal information that
 would make them useful to us. I've collected these objects created in
 the past couple of days here

 http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/bitcoin.osc

 A few examples:

 node id=252007 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-04T17:56:44Z
 uid=1795331 user=The Tobacco Seed Company changeset=18716456
 lat=51.5442768 lon=0.7236584
   tag k=name v=The Tobacco Seed Company/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=http://www.tobaccoseed.co.uk/
 /node

 This is blatant advertising for a web site. It doesn't even say what
 kind of shop this is supposed to be.

 node id=2523904649 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-08T04:46:05Z
 uid=1798995 user=mkondratov changeset=18776505 lat=41.4183069
 lon=-81.694649
   tag k=name v=Noosphere Ltd, Computer Repair/
   tag k=note v=Computer Repair Services/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=phone v=1-216-459-1994/
   tag k=website v=http://www.noospherecomputers.com/
 /node

 This, too, is little more than a name on our map. We don't usually
 include the field of business in the name - this should have been
 expressed through a proper shop tag.

 node id=2526590372 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-10T15:46:58Z
 uid=1801179 user=79s VOF changeset=18818705 lat=52.372218
 lon=4.8653634
   tag k=name v=79s VOF/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=https://store.79s.co/
 /node

 Spam.

 node id=2537387222 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-18T01:07:54Z
 uid=1809524 user=webhostpl changeset=18964238 lat=50.0727563
 lon=19.8938861
   tag k=domeny v=/
   tag k=hosting v=/
   tag k=name v=Webhost.pl/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=strony internetowe v=/
   tag k=website v=http://www.webhost.pl/
 /node

 Broken tagging (quite frequent).

 node id=2540057545 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-19T18:09:14Z
 uid=1651798 user=oldenburg69 changeset=18998877 lat=36.2026532
 lon=-115.0597195
   tag k=addr:city v=Las Vegas/
   tag k=addr:housenumber v=5216/
   tag k=addr:postcode v=89156/
   tag k=addr:street v=Glendale Ave./
   tag k=name v=Hannig Fab Works/
   tag k=note v=Hannig Fab Works LLC is a custom metal
 fabrication shop specializing in creating high quality metal fixtures,
 custom fabrication and metal art to customers in the Southern Nevada and
 abroad via the internet./
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=website v=http://www.hannigfabworks.com//
 /node

 Tagging is ok as far as the address node is concerned, but without a
 shop tag the rest is kind of useless, and the note tag is not for your
 marketing tagline.

 node id=2548748273 version=1 timestamp=2013-11-24T14:38:32Z
 uid=1817212 user=l337 PLace changeset=19091714 lat=60.1491622
 lon=24.6551426
   tag k=addr:city v=Espoo/
   tag k=addr:housename v=1337Place/
   tag k=addr:housenumber v=4/
   tag k=addr:postcode v=02320/
   tag k=addr:street v=Espoonlahdenkatu/
   tag k=name v=1337place.com (Logistics only)/
   tag k=note v=Quality products shipping worldwide starting
 @5EUR. BeagleBone Black and much more. U can pay with Bitcoin! #BTC
 #Bitcoin/
   tag k=payment:bitcoin v=yes/
   tag k=phone v=+358466401678/
   tag k=website v=http://www.1337place.com/
 /node

 Whatever BeagleBone Black is, this house is certeinly not called
 1337Place...

node id=2563617422 visible=true version=1 changeset=19261838
 

Re: [OSM-talk] Admin boundaries - data consumers

[Jason Remillard]

Hi

Does India have a local osm chapter? If yes, this would be a perfect place
to host the tiles. Many local chapters host tile servers.

Thanks
Jason

On Monday, November 11, 2013, Arun Ganesh wrote:


 Easy: take everything from OSM but the borders and supply your own
 favourite borders from a separate source with a nice big Indian
 government stamp on it. Render to taste.


 Having new tile layer on osm.org that does not have any international
 boundaries (or hiding those that are disputed)  would solve the issue much
 more easily rather than requiring everyone affected to setup their own
 tileservers. This issue affects half the global internet population and is
 a definite barrier against the global adoption of this project.

 --
  Arun Ganesh
 (planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad
  http://j.mp/ArunGanesh

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Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hello,

The inconsistency is caused by those that insist on defining the
project in terms of things that can be verified on the ground. My
definition of the project has no inconsistency.

A free map of the entire world.

Thanks
Jason





On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 The answer to your Where is the line is actually quite a simple question...

 We have a logical inconsistency right now. We tell people that OSM
 contains a map of verifiable things. In fact, we remove things which
 are not observable!

 But political(administrative) boundaries are an exception to that.

 The explanation is always Because a map is expected to have these
 boundaries, which is true, but it remains a logical inconsistency.

 For years there's been this standoff between consistency and
 practicality. The proposed solution would be to have another instance
 of the OSM database (just like we have the dev database) which uses
 the same API and same credentials.

 So what would go in there? Political boundaries.

 As for splitting the project- I think it does a little, but in a
 very well defined way. Only administrative boundaries would go in the
 administrative boundary map.

 You're right that it does change the nature of the project in a way,
 moving us from one to multiple (2) databases, and it may even be true
 that if we did this, people would want new databases.

 There are issues with any solution, but I do see a lot of consistency
 in this one.

 - Serge

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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin borders/separate database

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Richard,

In my opinion, changing the back end (which would be ton of work), is
probably not the best way of addressing the issues you are seeing.

We are still dealing with the hangover from the batch poorly done
imports in 2009 and 2010.
We also have an editor issue.

A better approach would be to

- Run an project to try to fix the imported poorly borders in the US,
like we are fixing the tiger data. Or perhaps just pull them all out
and re-import, state by state.
- Make some changes to the editors to not allow dragging an entire
admin border over, and not sticking other things to them by default.

Thanks
Jason



On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 i brought up the subject of admin borders in the US over
 on talk-us and there was a lot of useful discussion. i think
 folks are mostly clear on the issues and tradeoffs, so i'd
 like to float a proposal for an evolved approach. i'm moving
 the discussion here because it's not just a US thing.

 basically, having admin borders mixed into the core OSM
 map is problematic for various reasons. in the US, we have
 a bunch of uncoordinated imports from different, inconsistent
 sources, and a bunch of hand editing that is sometimes well
 intentioned, and sometimes accidental, and not always
 correct. the resulting map can be quite ugly at times.

 there is an argument that some make that because
 borders are usually not easily verifiable on the ground,
 they don't belong in OSM at all. i'm somewhat sympathetic
 with the argument, but i also think that we have a bunch of
 data consumers that need/want borders.  many map users,
 not so concerned with philosophical purity, expect to see at
 least some of these borders in a map.

 so the rough outlines of the proposal (feel free to kick this
 around) are as follows:

 a new database is created under the framework of OSM.
 the purpose of this DB is to contain borders. after it is
 reasonably complete and data consumers have been
 adapted to use it for their admin border needs, the old
 admin borders can be removed from OSM core.

 it uses the same schema and API so existing tools all
 work for editing. it has the same access restrictions as
 the current core OSM database; the only barrier to entry
 is that you have to learn enough about your editor to
 repoint it at this new DB. every member of the OSM
 community would retain the same access rights they
 have now. the minor barrier to entry, combined with
 the fact that it will be impossible to glue border
 nodes to other features, will probably address 98 or
 99% of the issues we see today.

 for the US, we'd probably want to do a fresh build of borders,
 mostly from current TIGER although in some areas other
 sources might be more appropriate (for example, in
 Massachusetts MassGIS is available and probably a better
 choice.)

 one open question is do we move other borders into this
 map? there are lots of things like the New York State
 DEC borders for various bits of conserved land, National
 Park  National Forest borders, and so forth that maybe
 out to move with admin borders. but perhaps we should
 start with admin borders only for proof of concept and
 to control the amount of work that needs to be done.

 richard



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Re: [Talk-us] NHD tags

[Jason Remillard]

Anybody care about NHD tags

The geometry is very rough on the import. I guess it's OK to delete
the NHD tags while fixing up the geometry?

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Jason Remillard
remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I came across my first NHD imported data set this weekend, in Western MA.

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43638395

 It has the following tags.

 NHD:ComID = 7711652
 NHD:FCode = 39004
 NHD:FDate = 1999/09/06
 NHD:FTYPE = LakePond
 NHD:GNIS_ID = 00212194
 NHD:GNIS_Name = Lake Winnemaug
 NHD:RESOLUTION = Medium
 NHD:ReachCode = 0115003135
 gnis:feature_id = 00212194
 name = Lake Winnemaug
 natural = water
 source = NHD

 The NHD wiki is pretty confusing. Is there is any kind of consensus on
 how NHD data *should* look inside OSM?  Should any of these NHD tags
 even be maintained inside OSM?

 Also, the GNIS id is prefixed with 2 extra zero's. Is that OK, or
 ideally would that be fixed too?

 Thanks
 Jason.

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[Talk-us] NHD tags

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I came across my first NHD imported data set this weekend, in Western MA.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43638395

It has the following tags.

NHD:ComID = 7711652
NHD:FCode = 39004
NHD:FDate = 1999/09/06
NHD:FTYPE = LakePond
NHD:GNIS_ID = 00212194
NHD:GNIS_Name = Lake Winnemaug
NHD:RESOLUTION = Medium
NHD:ReachCode = 0115003135
gnis:feature_id = 00212194
name = Lake Winnemaug
natural = water
source = NHD

The NHD wiki is pretty confusing. Is there is any kind of consensus on
how NHD data *should* look inside OSM?  Should any of these NHD tags
even be maintained inside OSM?

Also, the GNIS id is prefixed with 2 extra zero's. Is that OK, or
ideally would that be fixed too?

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: misalignments

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

For what it is worth, this is an example of a several different
imports ignoring each other rather than a problem specific to admin
boundaries.


 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.2642/-95.7297
 that is a good one.

This is the same problem as above.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/41.7182/-69.9313

at least 4 different imports all not quite agreeing with each other.
The entire coastline of MA looks like this.

Jason.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia article

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Simon - If you look at the slashdot and hackernews links, I think you
will see that many of the people that are upset probably don't have an
ideological ax to grind.
Eugene - Obviously, I think it is OK right now that it is hard to diff
and revert changes. We are not under assault by spammers.

One last thought. It is interesting to study Wikipedia because the
project is so successful. It is a top 10 web site, everybody knows and
uses it, they have a well funded foundation, etc, etc. Hardly anybody
knows about OSM, and our registered user count is quite small compared
to Wikipedia.

However, check this link out. It shows that Wikipedia has about
36,000+ active editors (90 day average)

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/images/decline.png

OSM, currently have about 18,000 active editors (30 day average)

http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/

We know that 80% of the edits are done by the active editors. Using
this important metric, we are about half the size of Wikipedia, which
is amazing.

Jason




On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Jason Remillard
remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Tom

 Your blog post is very interesting.

 Just in case anybody thinks that the rapid growth of OSM is inevitable
 at this point,  this study shows how Wikipedia turned off its growth
 like a switch when they starting clamping down on first time editors.
 Since 2007 the number of active editors has actually decreased.

 http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/

 Unless the map in your area is 100% perfect and complete, be extra
 nice to those new editors!

 Jason







 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote:
 I wrote an article somewhat in the same vein:

 http://macwright.org/2013/10/15/point-and-shoot.html

 Perhaps something to note is that, beyond technical and policy issues, one
 of the more common complaints about Wikipedia is that there's an unfriendly,
 elitist attitude amongst the established editors. My article asks for some
 relatively deep changes to infrastructure and user experience, but the more
 actionable and immediately useful thing that everyone can do is to be
 friendly.


 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi,

 The MIT technology review just published this article on Wikipedia.


 http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/520446/the-decline-of-wikipedia/

 It is sport criticizing Wikipedia, but two things stuck out.

 Wikipedia is trying to get more editors. However, they seem to have
 some additional problems that OSM does not have.

 Wikipedia failed to roll out the new GUI article editor.

 If you read the discussion on hacker news, and Slashdot.


 http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/10/23/1643228/wikipedias-participation-problem
 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638

 It seems like Wikipedia has revert first policy on questionable edits.
 It makes it unpleasant to start with the project, since probably every
 bodies first edits are questionable.

 OSM policy/culture of discussing a change *before* reverting is really
 good thing.

 Jason

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[OSM-talk] Wikipedia article

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The MIT technology review just published this article on Wikipedia.

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/520446/the-decline-of-wikipedia/

It is sport criticizing Wikipedia, but two things stuck out.

Wikipedia is trying to get more editors. However, they seem to have
some additional problems that OSM does not have.

Wikipedia failed to roll out the new GUI article editor.

If you read the discussion on hacker news, and Slashdot.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/10/23/1643228/wikipedias-participation-problem
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638

It seems like Wikipedia has revert first policy on questionable edits.
It makes it unpleasant to start with the project, since probably every
bodies first edits are questionable.

OSM policy/culture of discussing a change *before* reverting is really
good thing.

Jason

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia article

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Tom

Your blog post is very interesting.

Just in case anybody thinks that the rapid growth of OSM is inevitable
at this point,  this study shows how Wikipedia turned off its growth
like a switch when they starting clamping down on first time editors.
Since 2007 the number of active editors has actually decreased.

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/

Unless the map in your area is 100% perfect and complete, be extra
nice to those new editors!

Jason







On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote:
 I wrote an article somewhat in the same vein:

 http://macwright.org/2013/10/15/point-and-shoot.html

 Perhaps something to note is that, beyond technical and policy issues, one
 of the more common complaints about Wikipedia is that there's an unfriendly,
 elitist attitude amongst the established editors. My article asks for some
 relatively deep changes to infrastructure and user experience, but the more
 actionable and immediately useful thing that everyone can do is to be
 friendly.


 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi,

 The MIT technology review just published this article on Wikipedia.


 http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/520446/the-decline-of-wikipedia/

 It is sport criticizing Wikipedia, but two things stuck out.

 Wikipedia is trying to get more editors. However, they seem to have
 some additional problems that OSM does not have.

 Wikipedia failed to roll out the new GUI article editor.

 If you read the discussion on hacker news, and Slashdot.


 http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/10/23/1643228/wikipedias-participation-problem
 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638

 It seems like Wikipedia has revert first policy on questionable edits.
 It makes it unpleasant to start with the project, since probably every
 bodies first edits are questionable.

 OSM policy/culture of discussing a change *before* reverting is really
 good thing.

 Jason

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Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Deleting data)

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Everybody has these rules of thumb about what OSM is and isn't. I
could write a couple of pages with all of my rules about imports.
But, my number one rule is that if there is a individual or group that
want to maintain a specific set of data in OSM (timezones, ancient
rail roads, protected zones in the ocean, etc), we should give them as
much latitude as possible to do it. We have plenty of room in the
database for everybody.

Enhancing the community is priority one.

Jason.

On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
 Philip Barnes writes:
   So we should not include country, state, principality, county, city,
   town, parish boundaries either as unless its an island aren't surveyable
   either.

 If ClosedStreetMap.com was more than a figment of my imagination we
 would store them there, not in OSM, yes.

 For example, the NYSDEC_Lands data which I imported is not mapped and
 not mappable. DEC *specifically* says that you cannot map it, because
 there is no reliable indication out in the field of what lands they
 manage. When they buy or sell land, they don't immediately go out and
 post or unpost it.

 If somebody deleted the NYSDEC_Lands import, I would be unhappy for
 about ten seconds, maybe twelve at the outside. It's useful, and it
 improves the map, but it belongs in closedstreetmap.com.

 --
 --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
 Crynwr supports open source software
 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog

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Re: [OSM-talk] Carto stylesheet for parks/campgrounds

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

But, I don't see any reason why the default style shouldn't render
individual sites at zoom level 19. It might drive a consensus on how
to tag individual camp sites. If you feel like it, perhaps you could
give that a try?

Thanks
Jason.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com wrote:
 Just curious if anyone else has created on OSM Carto stylesheet focused on
 parks or campgrounds. There are a lot of parks near me which have maps which
 haven't changed in ten, twenty, or thirty years. I've mapped several of them
 thoroughly, but now would like to see a rendering which is a bit more
 focused and detailed, such as rendering some of the less commonly used tags
 to include tagging individual camp sites (pitches). It would be great if I
 could put something together to show the local parks. If no one has
 anything, I would probably just derive something from the
 openstreetmap-carto style.

 Thanks,
 Josh
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Re: [OSM-talk] NY Lakes and Ponds project is completed

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Russ,

We have been working on the lakes and ponds in MA, and are about to
start working on names.

I have discovered that the GNIS database has the names of lakes and
ponds, but they were not imported into OSM. Only the reservoirs were
imported. If you are scrounging around for lake/pond names, definitely
check out the GNIS database. Also, the GNIS database is what ends up
in the USGS topo maps, so checking the USGS topo maps is equivalent.

Thanks
Jason.



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
 I've gone through my list of New York State Lakes and Ponds, and I've
 reached the end. Except for a few that were obviously neither a lake
 nor pond on the aerial photograph (filled in), I've entered all of
 them. I posit that you would have to work hard to find a lake or pond
 which is not in OSM and which is in New York State.

 Next task: to go through Wikipedia's list of St. Lawrence County roads
 and create routes for them.

 Next next task: go through Wikipedia's list of rivers and streams in
 New York State, and make sure they're all there. I've entered many, as
 have Richard Welty and others, but I want to make sure they're all
 there.

 After that, I dunno? Go looking for railroad / road intersections
 which are not marked with railway=level_crossing or a bridge?

 --
 --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
 Crynwr supports open source software
 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] GNIS tag removal proposal

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Bryce,

If you really want to be sure nobody gets confused by some of the
extra tags in the drop tags, you could run an automated edit project
to remove them. I am not 100% sure about this, but putting something
in the JOSM drop list is 50x less work than running an automated edit
project over the entire US, so it means that the tags are a problem,
we would like them gone, but the small list of people that tend of do
these kind of projects don't want to spend the time to kill them
wholesale

Thanks
Jason






On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 Here's a patch to JOSM to warn the human editor about tags that are about to
 disappear.  What do you think?


 --- src/org/openstreetmap/josm/gui/dialogs/properties/PropertiesDialog.java
 (revision 6232)
 +++ src/org/openstreetmap/josm/gui/dialogs/properties/PropertiesDialog.java
 (working copy)
 @@ -280,6 +276,26 @@

 propertyTable.setSelectionMode(ListSelectionModel.MULTIPLE_INTERVAL_SELECTION);
  propertyTable.getTableHeader().setReorderingAllowed(false);

 +// Style the key column
 +propertyTable.getColumnModel().getColumn(0).setCellRenderer(new
 DefaultTableCellRenderer(){
 +@Override public Component getTableCellRendererComponent(JTable
 table, Object value,
 +
 boolean isSelected, boolean hasFocus, int row, int column) {
 +Component cc = super.getTableCellRendererComponent(table,
 value, isSelected, false, row, column);
 +if (value == null)
 +return this;
 +String myvalue = (String)value;
 +if (OsmPrimitive.getDiscardableKeys().contains(myvalue) ) {
 +cc.setFont(cc.getFont().deriveFont(Font.ITALIC));
 +cc.setBackground(Color.RED);
 +} else {
 +cc.setFont(cc.getFont().deriveFont(Font.PLAIN));
 +cc.setBackground(Color.WHITE);
 +}
 +return cc;
 +}
 +});
 +
 +// Style the value column
  propertyTable.getColumnModel().getColumn(1).setCellRenderer(new
 DefaultTableCellRenderer(){
  @Override public Component getTableCellRendererComponent(JTable
 table, Object value,
  boolean isSelected, boolean hasFocus, int row, int
 column) {


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Re: [OSM-talk] Annoucement: Poup layer beta reworked

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Roland,

I agree with your criticisms on the show data feature. However, I
think it would better (easier for people to use) to fix the issues
with show data, rather than duplicating a bunch of its functionality
in a new way. You could put your tag - English translation into it,
somehow fix the selection issue, and don't show all data items at low
zoom, it would be mostly straightened out.

I still think it makes sense to have a clickable map, but instead to
attempting to show everything inside of a tiny bounding box, see if
you can add some logic to display just one item, in more detail. You
would need to be smart (aka make some assumptions) about selecting the
correct OSM object. If you get the selection correct, you can show all
of the information for the object (including rolling up the town,
state,country data with just one click.

Just a thought ...

Jason.




On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Roland Olbricht
roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 Without some context it is hard to make any comments. What are the
 goals/user scenarios of the feature

 The feature shows all elements that have a well-understood meaning by their
 tagging. So the mapper gets a basic feedback what of his edits have made sense
 in the commonly accepted semantics. Additionally it is useful to get quick
 information about what exists in a certain location, in particular at any zoom
 level.

 not covered by the show data function?

 The data function is essentially a read-only view like an in-place editor. So
 it is only useful for me if I don't want to log in at that moment. It cares
 about raw data, without any processing. It is in particular deeply hidden,
 bceause it works in dense areas only on the highest zoom level, and then only
 with patience. For example
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.73183/7.0
 still takes around 10 seconds to load, and it is difficult to select the right
 object.

 Cheers,

 Roland


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Re: [OSM-talk] Annoucement: Poup layer beta reworked

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Roland,

Without some context it is hard to make any comments. What are the
goals/user scenarios of the feature not covered by the show data
function?

Thanks
Jason



On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Roland Olbricht
roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote:
 Dear all,

 the Popup extension for the osm.org main site has just got a major rework. The
 feedback from the previous version has been incorporated and resulted in a
 couple of new features.

 I'll introdurce them by example:
 http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/64.1289/-21.8902

 Please click on the large building Kringlan. A blue box and a popup with all
 the named features from the box appears. The page indicator [1] [2] [3] at
 the bottom shows that there are more features to explore within the blue box.

 Please click on details of Lyf  heilsa: You will see both a link to the
 website tagged on the element and the adress of the element. The details are
 derived from well-known tags like here the addr:* family and website.

 To show further evaluated tags, you can go to page [3] and click Ísland: You
 will get a Wikipedia entry and a list of all known translations. These are
 made from the name:* family.

 In all cases, you can see all tagged details of an object on the [tags]
 switch. If there are multiple objects tagged exactly the same way, then they
 are grouped together. This happens for example on page [2] with the streets
 called Kringlan.

 To allow further inspection of the objects, you can click on each and get the
 respective webpage for the OSM object.

 What I would in particular ask you for: A lot of objects still show Other
 object or unexpected object classes. This is because the list on
 https://github.com/drolbr/openstreetmap-
 website/blob/master/app/assets/javascripts/tagprocessor.js
 is yet to be completed.

 If you find a category that should appear there, please add it to the feedback
 page
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display#Missing_classification

 Cheers,

 Roland


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Re: [Talk-us] Putting businesses on OSM with onosm.org

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Ian,

I gave it a spin. For me the interesting question is how to deploy it.

Option 1, would be to make this a feature on the main OSM site.
Instead of asking people to add a note, we could ask a couple more
structured questions to insure we have enough info in the note. Let
face it, add a note to osm, is not anybodies actual goal. It is
always going to be something higher level, like add a POI, remove
close POI, move POI, add road, etc.

Option 2, would be to try to make a small business out of it, that
also adds in new business to google, bing, yelp, etc.

Just guessing, but I suspect, having a standalone site for just OSM
might not get enough use to make it worth it...

Jason





On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 At the Chicago Hack Weekend several months ago I started a project with the
 goal of making it easier for businesses to add themselves to the map.

 http://onosm.org/ is the result and I'd love to hear some feedback.

 A couple limitations right now:
 - If we can't geocode you, you can't participate. I'm trying to think of a
 way to let you past the first step if you know where to find yourself on the
 map.

 - The details I'm asking for are pretty barren. What else should I ask for?

 - My plan is to post all these details in an anonymous note via the notes
 API. It doesn't do that yet.

 - How should follow-up be handled? Should I ask for and include an e-mail
 address in the note?

 Let me know what you think!
 Ian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Since everybody is pilling onto this, here is my 2 cents.

I find the P2 editor completely unusable, it is too slow, its is very
hard to use, and requires me to enable a completely insecure plugin to
run. I would not be involved in the project if I did not discover JOSM
shortly after starting. It is not like P2 is a joy to use.

I look around my area and there are 100's of people that made an
account and either made no changes or just one change and left. The
map is not even close to being completed or perfect. I would be
*delighted* to fix a couple broken relations or remap something that
was deleted by mistake, if we could get more mappers in my area. We
need more people mapping more than anything else.

ID's first impressions are so much better than P2, it is a
no-brainier, make it the default. Do it now.

Also, for what its worth, I have fixed more new mapper mistakes done
in P2 than ID since ID went live.

Jason







On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

 it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default
 editor on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly
 chose an editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch.

 Refer to the previous thread In the works: iD 1.1 for details on that
 release.

 The relevant GitHub pull request is here:

 https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/453

 It is likely that this pull request will be merged (i.e. accepted and
 incorporated into the OSM web site) in the near future unless there are
 important reasons not to.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
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Re: [Talk-us] Mark your calendars for the #BirthdaySprint! (Now with snazzy website!)

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Also, it looks like we have some actual locations for some US events
this weekend too. San Francisco, Denver, Nashua, NH.

Thanks
Jason



On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Kathleen Danielson
kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
 As you all know, in honor of OpenStreetMap's 9th birthday, we are holding a
 Birthday Sprint next weekend, August 10th - 11th. Since we can't all be in
 the same room (this time), this will be a distributed code sprint, so you
 won't even need to get off the couch! All you'll need to do is get online,
 and all you'll need to bring is your enthusiasm!

 Whoever has an OSM project they are working on is invited to rally their
 communities to do a dedicated push over those two days. We already have a
 LOT of great projects signed up, so if you want to help, but don't know
 where to get started, check out our projects page, where you can find
 contact info, code repositories, discussion lists and more.

 We're working to identify tasks for non-developers as well, so keep checking
 back as we get closer to the date of the sprint if you don't see anything
 you feel comfortable contributing to just yet.

 These are the projects that are signed up so far:

 OSM Groups
 HOT Website updates
 HOT cross-site toolbar
 Complete iD integration into tasking server
 WikiMaps
 Historical OSM
 Hashtag Aggregation
 Social Feature Planning (UX workshop)
 DC Building Import

 We're excited about all of the enthusiasm that we've heard so far, but this
 list isn't done yet! If you've got a project you'd like to add feel free to
 hit me up, or fork the github page. All we ask is that someone take
 ownership for the sprint, you provide a place where contributors can find
 tasks and ongoing discussion, and bring a lot of enthusiasm!

 Finally, even though this is a distributed code sprint, there are a few
 in-person events popping up (in DC, SF, and Salt Lake City). Find details
 here, and let us know if you're planning an in-person event too!

 KD


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Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare superusers encouraged to directly edit OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

It is fantastic news that foursquare is adding an edit OSM button into
their interface. Hopefully they have good luck with it and roll it out
everywhere.

Craigslist, how about an edit OSM button too?

Jason.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Stefan Keller sfkel...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi

 Interesting news from yesterday's Foursquare blog [1]: Today, we’re
 expanding upon that by encouraging our community to directly edit map
 data. (...). See also [2].

 Yours, Stefan

 P.S. I'm collecting everything I find around location based systems
 and gamification while preparing my lightning talk about Live is a
 game! at SOTM 2013...
 P.P.S. Hope to see you all there on 6 to 8 Sept. in Birmingham.

 [1] 
 http://blog.foursquare.com/2013/07/31/linking-up-foursquare-and-openstreetmap-editing/
 [2] https://twitter.com/openstreetmap/status/362901088803889152

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Re: [Talk-us] Cemeteries in OSM?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Thomas,

It would be 100% fine putting in individual gravestones into OSM. It
is an physical object that can be surveyed, does not move, and people
care about it. Personally, I would enjoy mapping the locations of
gravestones of loved ones, important people, kind of like a little
Internet memorial. When you die, you get your very own node in OSM. If
enough people do it, somebody will make a special slippy map that
supports a very high level zoom to show each gravestone, don't worry
about it not being rendered right now, just try to get the tagging
right.

It sounds like this might be an import, you should follow the normal
process (like the NPS import).

I say go for it!

Thanks
Jason.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Thomas Colson thomas_col...@nps.gov wrote:
 Are there any examples of detailed cemetery mapping in OSM? E.g. individual
 head-stones are mapped with interred information. Is this even an
 appropriate use of OSM? I have a cemetery mapping  project with LOTS of good
 data, pondering the best way to publish it….








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Re: [OSM-talk] Upgraded map controls

[Jason Remillard]

I just watched all 30 minutes of the video. I am a professional
software engineer, the designer seemed extremely competent. Because of
the presentation, I trust that the people working on his know what
they are doing and I am very excited to see what comes next. Please
lets give them some space to work. This is just the first step

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 On 20/07/2013 09:25, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

 James Mast wrote:

 I'm personally not liking that they now have hidden the
 long/short links to the map location behind buttons.
 Instead of just one click to get the map location, now
 it's two clicks and is really annoying and slowing down
 work for me. :(

 Ok, I've said this at least three times elsewhere,


 Why wasn't it mentioned in the link from the tweet?
 http://blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/07/19/new-map-control/

 Actually why wasn't any of the instructions mentioned in the link?
 I see there's a video presentation, but really, at 26 minutes long, who has
 the time  patience or bandwidth to wade through that? #real_world

 I've just listened to the first three minutes of it. A classic example of
 why programmers shouldn't present/explain/write help files for their own
 programs. Again #real_world.

 Dave F.


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Re: [Talk-us] Steady increase in the number of mappers in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hello,

Most people would agree that we don't have nearly enough people mapping.
Clearly, transcending our early adopter types of GIS and open source
software people will be needed. However, effective strategies for on
boarding the next million people are going to be very different than what
was needed to get the first say 100,000 people signed up. I know this is
very un PC to say, but things like mapping parties/local chapters which
were absolutely essential to recruit the first 100,000 people, really will
not matter much going forward. Even if you get 100 people per mapping
party, its 15,000 mapping parties, to get the next 1.5 million mappers! We
need to be thinking about things that will scale to lots, and lots of
people.

Clifford, of your 4 ideas only getting coverage in mainstream press would
probably be effective. Besides working on mainstream press, getting people
using our data is *and* understanding they can come in and change it is
probably our best hope because it scales.

1. Push back on high volume down stream data consumers that do the absolute
minimum on working with us. For example, foursquare, who has 30 million
users, is doing an awful job supporting us. They have the OSM credit buried
in a blog posting which a bunch of other items. They don't even mention
that anybody can go to OSM to edit the map. Shame on them!! Cragslists,
does a much better job. They have an OSM link on the bottom of the map and
have a way of reporting problems on the map from their interface via our
notes features. I am sure Cragslists has been drivings new mappers into the
project. Other high volume consumer need to look more like Cragslists, and
not foursquare, or Apple.

2.We just had a big thread on this on the main talk list, but we need to
support using our main web page for using our data for finding stuff,
getting directions, and for mapping verticals (hiking, golf, bike, trains,
hunting, etc).  Just today we took a step in this direction, and enabled
the ability to use the location services to find your current position on
the main web site! Our second fund raising round, includes a computer for
router, and more tile servers. It looks like we are moving in this
direction.

3. Last bit, which we are also doing, is to improve our conversion rate.
The new ID editor is pretty nice and I think will help.

Its coming, I'm optimistic about our direction. But, we do need to
understand that the project is at a new phase now. Even though it is lots
of fun, getting together for mapping parties is not getting us the next 1.5
million people.

Thanks
Jason.






On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote:

 We have over 200 mappers contributing to OSM in the US driving us to
 second place, but way behind Germany. Look at OSM Stats for the details.
 http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/index.php?item=countries

 Second place is good, but I wonder what we could be if we made it our goal
 to increase the number of active mappers. When you look at our numbers
 against our population, there is a lot of room for growth. See the chart of
 the top 10 below. The data was taken from osmstats along
 with population data from Wikipedia.

   Rank Country Population Mappers Nodes Created Nodes Modified Deleted
 Nodes New Nodes Per Mapper Mappers per 1M Population  1 Germany 80,493,000
 564 72992 40981 7174 129 7.01  2 United States 316,278,000 202 62036 18103
 23815 307 0.64  3 Russia 143,400,000 191 84192 17872 3008 441 1.33  4
 France 65,684,000 182 116333 14463 13497 639 2.77  5 Italy 59,704,082 116
 42873 10047 2603 370 1.94  6 United Kingdom 63,181,775 113 36210 4111 2233
 320 1.79  7 Poland 38,533,299 91 37578 4271 4112 413 2.36  8 Austria 8,464,554
 77 18564 4414 948 241 9.10  9 Spain 47,059,533 70 25214 3745 712 360 1.49
 10 Belgium 11,153,405 52 16430 2201 1670 316 4.66

 I'd like to suggest that we adopt a goal of increasing the number of
 active mappers in the US. I'm not sure how we accomplish it, but I'd like
 to solicit suggestions and feedback. Lets set some target goals.  I think
 this is a worth while project to work on.

 I'll start by just listing a few of my thoughts:

 We need publicity!
 Increase diversity of mappers by attracting more women and minority mappers
 Support for local groups
 OSM Ambassadors (Like Fedora Ambassadors if you are familiar with the
 linux distribution Fedora)


 Cheers,
 --
 Clifford

 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [Talk-us] Edit-a-thon promotion

[Jason Remillard]

Hello,

There is already a mapping party at NeighborLand, mapping seats in NYC!

http://handbook.neighborland.com/nyc-mapping-party/

Bummer, they are not doing this on top of OSM! The site is using
google for everything, even storing the raw data.

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?docid=1dpQr55ZhmgcExT2ldCYeI6jbejuAI0Nf4n9oGX0#rows:id=1

Jason.

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:
 Hey all,

 I found out about NeighborLand today and am using it as one of the channels
 to promote the SLC edit-a-thon --
 https://neighborland.com/ideas/salt-lake-city-to-improve-openstreetmap
 Perhaps it's useful for you as well, either for promoting a local
 edit-a-thon or just to let people know about your local OSM group. At least
 the people on there are somehow concerned with what's happening around them,
 so they might be a good target demographic for your next mapping party or
 mappy hour!

 Martijn

 --
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 http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
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Re: [Talk-us] MA pond/lake import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Mike,

Thanks! Yes, the empty areas are from the previous import in 2010.

Jason.

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jason,

 Nice documentation.

 Based upon the image in the Wiki, some parts of Mass appear to have no lakes
 or ponds.  Were those parts that we covered in the previous import?

 Mike


 On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi,

 We would like to import the rest of the ponds/lakes into
 Massachusetts. The import wiki is below.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MassGIS_DEP_Wetlands_Import_2013

 - The data is public domain (all MassGIS data is public domain)
 - We are conflating via a script to avoid double imports
 - Simplifying the geometry to 1 meter in the script.
 - The source data geometry is very good as compared to Bing images.
 - About 1/3 of the state was imported already in 2010 from the same
 data source, minus the name tags.
 - It is about 2,800 ponds and lakes, and will fill out the rest of the
 state. The wetlands, rivers, salt marshes, etc are not being imported.
 - Tagged with natural=water, name=*, and sometimes water=reservoir
 - Sample OSM file linked to on the wki, nothing has been uploaded yet.
 - Source code linked to on the wiki.
 - Changes sets will get source and attribution tags.

 Please see the wiki page for details. If anybody has any
 issues/problems/objections, would like us to do something different,
 or would like to help, please comment!

 Thanks
 Jason.

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[Talk-us] Massachusetts MassGIS L3 Parcel JOSM image layer updated

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The Massachusetts JOSM  parcel image layer has been updated, with new
MassGIS data.

The following towns were added.

Athol, Holbrook, Needham, Newbury, North Andover, Springfield, Wayland
and Worcester

The following towns/cities still don't have MassGIS data released yet.

BOSTON, BUCKLAND, ESSEX, GAYHEAD, LINCOLN, NEWTON, OXFORD, SWANSEA,
WILLIAMSBURG, WRENTHAM

Thanks
Jason.

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[Talk-us] MA pond/lake import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

We would like to import the rest of the ponds/lakes into
Massachusetts. The import wiki is below.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MassGIS_DEP_Wetlands_Import_2013

- The data is public domain (all MassGIS data is public domain)
- We are conflating via a script to avoid double imports
- Simplifying the geometry to 1 meter in the script.
- The source data geometry is very good as compared to Bing images.
- About 1/3 of the state was imported already in 2010 from the same
data source, minus the name tags.
- It is about 2,800 ponds and lakes, and will fill out the rest of the
state. The wetlands, rivers, salt marshes, etc are not being imported.
- Tagged with natural=water, name=*, and sometimes water=reservoir
- Sample OSM file linked to on the wki, nothing has been uploaded yet.
- Source code linked to on the wiki.
- Changes sets will get source and attribution tags.

Please see the wiki page for details. If anybody has any
issues/problems/objections, would like us to do something different,
or would like to help, please comment!

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] ref tags

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

If the way is part of relation that has a ref, and the way itself does
not have a ref, then the relation ref should propagate to the way. If
the way has a ref, then that is what should be used regardless if its
in a relation or not.

Would that break anybody?

Thanks
Jason.


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:
 Because, as I understand it, route relations are not used as extensively in
 some regions / countries as they are here in the U.S. and we cannot impose
 this reliance on relationships for numbered route relations on everyone.
 Perhaps if we make it a switch / option in osm2pgsql so folks can choose
 based on their local situation?


 On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Why not just patch osm2pgsql? It seems like the right place for this
 is on the relation.

 On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I wanted to get an opinion on the right place for 'ref' tags on numbered
  routes.
 
  From what I understand, osm2pgsql and the downstream rendering process
  uses
  the ref tags on the way object to render highway 'shields'.
 
  The following example corroborates this. Consider this (long) way:
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/13649057
 
  See how this segment has no 'shields' on the map because the way itself
  has
  no ref tag:
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.5419lon=-89.4744zoom=13layers=M
 
  Even though the way is part of the properly tagged relation
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/23246
 
  I see two issues here:
 
  1) Information already present in the relation object being duplicated
  on
  the way to satisfy the renderer
  2) Incomplete coverage of ref information on ways
 
  I don't think we can solve 1) in the short term. There are likely many,
  many
  numbered route networks in the world that are poorly covered by
  relations,
  because the renderer does not encourage it, because relations were
  introduced after a lot of numbered routes were already tagged before the
  arrival of relations, because the wiki is ambiguous, perhaps other
  reasons.
 
  There are perhaps a few thousand ways in the U.S. that are part of a
  numbered route, yet do not have ref tags on the way. My question is: how
  should we deal with these?
 
  My proposal is to 'fill the gaps' by manually tagging these ways using
  the
  existing conventions for route relation ref tagging ('US 98', 'I 20',
  'MS
  467', etc.) wherever this information can be derived from an existing
  route
  relation. We have folks here at Telenav willing to spend some cycles on
  this, but I want to see if this is a sane approach before we do
  anything.
  --
  Martijn van Exel
  http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
  http://openstreetmap.us/
 
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Re: [Talk-us] Road Restriction: No RV's?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Thomas,

This is all i could find

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hgv#Land-based_transportation

motorhome=no,

Not used really at all (69 times).

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=motorhome

The wiki page is empty.

The hgv tag is used a lot more, but it is not really the same thing.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/hgv

Unless somebody else comes up with something better, I would go with
motorhome=no on the road/way. You can pick that tag out in your tiles
and render them differently.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Thomas Colson thomas_col...@nps.gov wrote:
 Is there a tag equivalent for a road restriction that would imply no
 Recreational Vehicles/Motor Homes/Buses?


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Re: [Talk-us] GNIS?

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Thomas,

I don't know if we/OSM have a policy for dealing with the gnis imported data.

I have been deleting all of the gnis tags except gnis:feature_id. The
justification for deleting them is that given the gnis:feature_id and
its position, the rest of the tags can be recreated from original data
source. Not sure why they were imported. Sometimes I feel like we
should not even be maintaining the gnis id. I know other mappers just
delete all of the gnis: tags when merging them with other OSM
features. I am not sure when the import was done we signed up for
maintaining the gnis:feature_id going forward for all of our points of
interest.

The gnis nodes are usually deleted and merged with another feature,
usually a building. The imported gnis node accuracy is not that great,
I have seem then several hundred yards off. Don't be afraid of moving
them if you know where the node should be with higher accuracy. Also,
if you have better elevation data, feel free to update it.

For sure, don't leave them alone.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Thomas Colson thomas_col...@nps.gov wrote:
 Is it preferable to keep the original GNIS tags if updating a GNIS object in
 OSM? E.g. updating say the location and elevation, everything else is the
 same. In context, GNIS mountain is here, but really it's there (which is
 usually the case for GNIS).

 Or, just leave the GNIS object alone, and add a new OSM feature? Not sure
 how folks feel about GNIS.


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Re: [Talk-us] Tagging camp sites within campground

[Jason Remillard]

Hi

Some guesses :-)

1. node, ref=xxx
2. node, addr:housenumber
3. node, place=locality, name=xxx
4. node, tourism=camp_site, name=xxx

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=tourismvalue=camp_site#combinations

Try using turbo overpass (http://overpass-turbo.eu/) , and look for
campsites over large areas (perhaps in Europe), and see what people
are doing. Let us know what you find!

Jason

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:
 re: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.81433lon=-119.1004zoom=17layers=M

 Back in November of 2010 AM909 mapped much of the McGill
 campground using amenity=parking and ref=SiteNumber to show
 individual campsites. See, for example

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/988132518/history

 This seems wrong to me. About like mapping each driveway
 in a subdivision with a parking icon. However I have not
 found a better solution on the wiki nor by searching taginfo.
 The closest I've come is this discussion on the talk-ca
 archives:

 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2010-August/003211.html

 with an example at

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5500386

 I like the idea of using addr:housenumber=SiteNumber but the
 use of addr:city=CampgroundName as well as
 addr:street=CampgroundName seems suspect to me. I think this
 was done so that the location could be searched for using
 geographic queries, but isn't that a bit like tagging for
 the renderer?

 What would be the best practice for this in the US?

 Thanks!

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Re: [Talk-us] Take another look at notes!

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Since we are talking about the new notes feature. I think it is great,
how about showing the notes by default on main OSM page?

Thanks
Jason.

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 On 5/31/13 6:30 PM, Richard Welty wrote:

 On 5/31/13 2:57 PM, Alex Barth wrote:

 Craigslist had added a feature to their OSM powered maps to submit map

 problems back to OSM

 Have you found that feature actually on craigslist?

 i'd going to go take a look at the UI if i can find it.

 ok, i found report a problem on the map view for housing units
 in an area. i'll have to go find a map problem and report it via the
 GUI so i can see the full cycle.

 richard



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[Talk-us] MassGIS L3 parcel layer update

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The JOSM  iMassGIS L3 parcel layer has been updated with the latest
data. 326/351 cities and towns are present. Beverly, Holliston,
Leominster, Somerset and Sudbury were added.

You may need to clear our your local cache to get the new towns.

Thanks
Jason.

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[Talk-us] MassGIS L3 Parcel Layer updated

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The Massachusetts L3 parcel imaging layer has been updated. 10 new
towns were added by MassGIS on 4/25. 321 of 351 towns are now covered.

If you use JOSM for map editing in MA and have not yet tried the
parcel layer, you just need to update the image sources, activate it,
and restart.

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] RC Airfields

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I have an RC field in my town.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/154081216

I just marked it has a private park, included its name, and the web
site for the club that runs the field.

Thanks
Jason.

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Rick Marshall
rick.marsh...@verticalgeo.com wrote:
 What is the best way to mark and tag a very small airfield that is used only
 for remote control (model) aircraft flying.  I added one here:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.49649lon=-89.87314zoom=17layers=M

 But I am unsure of the best way to tag the airfield and attributes.

 Rick Marshall
 Rick Marshall, PhD, GISP
 President
 Vertical GeoSolutions, Inc (VerticalGeo)
 130 Sawgrass Ln
 O'Fallon, IL  62269
 (618) 670-4259
 rick.marsh...@verticalgeo.com
 http://www.verticalgeo.com
 http://www.culturescapes.net
 Vertically Thinking Blog: http://verticalgeo.wordpress.com




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Re: [Talk-us] Baltimore Building Outlines Import

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

If you carefully read the original mail, you will see two download
links. Both of those links it says the data is public domain  I don't
think the the web site terms of use apply. The data can't both be in
the public domain and have a license.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
 On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Matthew Petroff
 openstreet...@mpetroff.net wrote:

 Hello,

 The City of Baltimore provides a large amount of public domain GIS data
 through
 their data portal [1]. Included are city wide building footprints [2],
 which I
 would like to import into OpenStreetMap. Other users have already started
 importing this data in a less automated way. I confirmed with the city GIS
 office that the data is indeed public domain.


 The City of Baltimore data portal claims otherwise.

 http://www.baltimorecity.gov/TermsofUse.aspx
 OpenBaltimore is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported
 License.

 They also include in the Disclaimer, Commercial use is prohibited without
 the prior written permission of the City.

 Either one of those is a big red flag.  Can you publish their assurance to
 you that the data is actually PD? You'll need to publish compelling official
 documentation from the city that can override their published license.  The
 license details on the Baltimore data portal web site make that data an
 absolute, NO GO in my judgement.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM relation ID property in Wikidata

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

In general is seems like it might be useful to have some kind of
somewhat permanent URL to an element inside of OSM. However, given
what exists today shouldn't Wikipedia be using the overpass API for
referencing OSM?

Thanks
Jason.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
 From: andrzej zaborowski [mailto:balr...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:08 PM
 To: Frederik Ramm
 Cc: OpenStreetMap
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM relation ID property in Wikidata

  I am less concerned about the Wikidata side - if they make a bad
  judgement then it is their mess to clean up. I am however concerned
  that if more people simply assume that the status quo is there to stay
  (IDs are stable enough), this will put pressure on *us* and limit
  our flexibility in the future.

 The OSMF has sent a pretty strong message saying that object IDs are
 stable enough to base impactful legal decisions on them.  It will look
 silly for them to go back to the stance that IDs aren't stable after
 all.

 There's two sides to ID stability. One is stability during software or data
 model changes and the other is stability during normal mapping. Frederik's
 post was concerned more with the former.

 The latter is more complicated. Because the original message linked to
 London, it's worth pointing out that a few admin relations did get new IDs
 in the redaction process for technical reasons and that periodically
 relations get given new IDs because old large complex relations don't
 interact well with the /history call.


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[Talk-us] MA Parcel Image Layer for JOSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

With lots of help from Ian Dees, and Lars Ahlzen and servers from US
OSM chapter, a new image layer is available in JOSM that includes the
parcel boundaries, house numbers, and ownership info for most of
Massachusetts.

If you map in MA, update your images sources in JOSM, and activate the
MassGIS L3 Parcels layer.

If you are just curious, the tiles can be directly viewed here.

http://tile.osm.osuosl.org/tiles/massgis_parcels/#17/42.58150/-71.58480

The OSM data in Massachusetts has many imported conservation land,
schools, parts, areas. While the meta data on is usually good, they
actual parcel boundary is not very accurate. This can be used to
correct.

The address data shown only includes the lowest street address number
for multi address parcels. This data is the primary source soon to be
released MassGIS address layer. Any suggestions on cleanly showing
multiple address with mapnik would be welcomed. It is a good way for
us to start getting some experience with how the MassGIS address data
looks.

The mapnik XML file, download, and postgis scripts are here.

https://github.com/jremillard/osm_massgis_tiles

The source of the data is MassGIS L3 Parcels layer.

http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-and-tech/it-serv-and-support/application-serv/office-of-geographic-information-massgis/datalayers/l3parcels.html

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [OSM-talk] EWG policy on including features end users versus mappers

[Jason Remillard]

Hello Everybody,

I have been talking to Paul off list, and it seems that I
misunderstood some of the emails about the POI feature. I mistakenly
thought that the POI feature might get rejected because it was focused
on end users rather than mappers. This is apparently not the case.
Sorry for bothering everybody + EWG with this.

Thanks
Jason.



On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Jason Remillard
remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Peter,


 When you talk about Users, who are you talking about? To me, the users of
 openstreetmap.org are a) mappers, who use the site to veryfiy their work and
 b) people using (or aiming at using) the data in their projects, mashups,
 products or papers.

 I, personally, don't see my neighbour, planning a trip to his parents, as a
 user of openstreetmap.org *although* he may be a user of the
 openstreetmap-data, nicely presented in another project.

 Lets look at some of these downstream projects.

 In the US, craigslist is a huge site using OSM data right now. 60
 million different people a year. Note, nowhere does it say that can
 EDIT the map and fix a mistake by going to osm.org site. How is
 somebody supposed to know that?

 http://boston.craigslist.org/search/aap?useMap=1zoomToPosting=query=srchType=AminAsk=maxAsk=bedrooms=

 Next up foursquare.

 https://foursquare.com/explore?cat=foodnear=Pepperell%2C%20MA

 Again, users of foursquare don't have a clue that they can edit the
 map! You need to click on the about this map link and land into a
 very technical blog post that mentions OSM at the end, again without
 telling people that can EDIT the map.

 Now, I am very happy that these companies are using the map data, I really am.

 You can't expect the downstream data users to carry our water for us.
 We need a map that lots of people use, with a big fat EDIT button at
 the top. Dumping features from OSM.org because they might be useful
 for a weekend trip is shooting ourselves in the foot. Could you
 imagine a world where Wikipedia had a bunch of good looking consumer
 facing sites without edit buttons with just subtle hints back to a
 editor only site. We are geo wiki, lets not be afraid to act like one.

 Thanks
 Jason.

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm.org POI display: next beta

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Paul,

 There was some discussion at the EWG about POI display being targeted at
 mappers vs. end users. Which is this aiming at?

It is very disappointing to me that this is even being asked. Not sure
how we going to get large enough to actually maintain all of our data.
Following the 1% rule, hundreds of millions of end users will be
needed somehow, somewhere. If we don't want users actually using our
web site then whats the plan, I guess we are hoping google and apple
eventually add OSM as a base layer?  Anyway, I just wanted to register
my disagreement with the EWG on this criteria for including features.

Thanks
Jason.

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[OSM-talk] EWG policy on including features end users versus mappers

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Peter,


 When you talk about Users, who are you talking about? To me, the users of
 openstreetmap.org are a) mappers, who use the site to veryfiy their work and
 b) people using (or aiming at using) the data in their projects, mashups,
 products or papers.

 I, personally, don't see my neighbour, planning a trip to his parents, as a
 user of openstreetmap.org *although* he may be a user of the
 openstreetmap-data, nicely presented in another project.

Lets look at some of these downstream projects.

In the US, craigslist is a huge site using OSM data right now. 60
million different people a year. Note, nowhere does it say that can
EDIT the map and fix a mistake by going to osm.org site. How is
somebody supposed to know that?

http://boston.craigslist.org/search/aap?useMap=1zoomToPosting=query=srchType=AminAsk=maxAsk=bedrooms=

Next up foursquare.

https://foursquare.com/explore?cat=foodnear=Pepperell%2C%20MA

Again, users of foursquare don't have a clue that they can edit the
map! You need to click on the about this map link and land into a
very technical blog post that mentions OSM at the end, again without
telling people that can EDIT the map.

Now, I am very happy that these companies are using the map data, I really am.

You can't expect the downstream data users to carry our water for us.
We need a map that lots of people use, with a big fat EDIT button at
the top. Dumping features from OSM.org because they might be useful
for a weekend trip is shooting ourselves in the foot. Could you
imagine a world where Wikipedia had a bunch of good looking consumer
facing sites without edit buttons with just subtle hints back to a
editor only site. We are geo wiki, lets not be afraid to act like one.

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] Chicago Buildings Redux

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Ian,

- The changeset source tag, shouldn't that be something like - City of
Chicago, data set blablabla. The github link will probably be dead
in 5 years. You could use a website= tag on the change set for the
github repo link.

- The wiki says that you are planning on manually checking for
overlaps with the existing buildings. If you have already done half of
the city, then you are still going to need to check over 500,000
buildings by hand. It seems like a lot! I am much to lazy for that. My
code for MA is below, it does a check for existing building and looks
for schools and airports that are not tagged correctly.

https://github.com/jremillard/osm_building_import

Its very cool that the building data already has the addresses!

Thanks
Jason.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi imports,

 A couple weeks ago I sent this message about Chicago releasing some of their
 data with an MIT license. Now that it's out and I've had some time to work
 with it, I'd like to propose continuing the import of buildings in Chicago.

 As I mentioned, I already successfully imported roughly half the city's
 buildings. Now that the dataset is licensed MIT, I would like to continue
 from where I left off.

 Please see the wiki page I built here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chicago,_Illinois/Buildings_Import

 The local community is still very interested in this import (in fact they've
 bugged me about continuing it since I stopped last year at various mapping
 parties I've lead and Open Gov meetups), so I'm excited to get going again.
 Please send any feedback you have as soon as possible so I can continue the
 import later this week.

 Thanks!
 Ian

 On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi imports,

 Earlier last year I downloaded the Chicago building footprints shapefile
 [0] from the Chicago data portal, chopped it into manageable bits and
 started importing it into OSM. Halfway through the process of merging and
 uploading this data I read the data portal's license [1] closer, discovering
 a clause that makes the datasets offered there incompatible with OSM. The
 troublesome clause allows the City of Chicago to require removal of any City
 data at any point in the future:

 The City may require a user of this data to terminate any and all
 display, distribution or other use of any or all of the data provided at
 this website for any reason including, without limitation, violation of
 these Terms of Use or other terms as defined by City agencies or departments
 contributing data to this website.

 When I noticed this I immediately stopped uploading data and began a
 conversation with the city's data team to discuss ways OSM could move
 forward with using the datasets listed on the portal.

 After several months of phone calls, meetings, and waiting, I'm pleased to
 announce that the City of Chicago has started to release some of its
 datasets under the MIT license on GitHub: [2].

 As a result of this new license, I will be able to continue importing the
 excellent buildings and address data into OSM (more on that later) and
 businesses will be able to use this data in their apps and tools without
 worrying about an untested license.

 I'm pretty excited about this, as Chicago is seen as a leader in municipal
 data and other OSM/Open Data folks can point to this as proof that open
 licensing is a very important part of open data.

 -Ian

 [0] https://data.cityofchicago.org/Buildings/Building-Footprints/w2v3-isjw
 [1] http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/narr/foia/data_disclaimer.html
 [2] https://github.com/chicago/



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Re: [Talk-us] Chicago Buildings Redux

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Ian,

One more thing. I realize that this is a controversial area. On our
import MA building import we decided to not include the MassGIS
building id. The id was just a munged centroid position and MassGIS
indicated they don't intend for it to be preserved/maintained long
term. Basically, the shape file needed a primary key, so they made one
up. Unless the Chicago GIS people intend on preserving the id over the
long term (like the gnis id), I would not bother including it. If
somebody needs to match back to the original data set, they can just
sort it out using centroids. Including it has the cost of discouraging
non-expert mappers from improving the data.

It is no big deal if you feel differently, just adding my 2 cents.

Thanks
Jason.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi imports,

 A couple weeks ago I sent this message about Chicago releasing some of their
 data with an MIT license. Now that it's out and I've had some time to work
 with it, I'd like to propose continuing the import of buildings in Chicago.

 As I mentioned, I already successfully imported roughly half the city's
 buildings. Now that the dataset is licensed MIT, I would like to continue
 from where I left off.

 Please see the wiki page I built here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chicago,_Illinois/Buildings_Import

 The local community is still very interested in this import (in fact they've
 bugged me about continuing it since I stopped last year at various mapping
 parties I've lead and Open Gov meetups), so I'm excited to get going again.
 Please send any feedback you have as soon as possible so I can continue the
 import later this week.

 Thanks!
 Ian

 On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi imports,

 Earlier last year I downloaded the Chicago building footprints shapefile
 [0] from the Chicago data portal, chopped it into manageable bits and
 started importing it into OSM. Halfway through the process of merging and
 uploading this data I read the data portal's license [1] closer, discovering
 a clause that makes the datasets offered there incompatible with OSM. The
 troublesome clause allows the City of Chicago to require removal of any City
 data at any point in the future:

 The City may require a user of this data to terminate any and all
 display, distribution or other use of any or all of the data provided at
 this website for any reason including, without limitation, violation of
 these Terms of Use or other terms as defined by City agencies or departments
 contributing data to this website.

 When I noticed this I immediately stopped uploading data and began a
 conversation with the city's data team to discuss ways OSM could move
 forward with using the datasets listed on the portal.

 After several months of phone calls, meetings, and waiting, I'm pleased to
 announce that the City of Chicago has started to release some of its
 datasets under the MIT license on GitHub: [2].

 As a result of this new license, I will be able to continue importing the
 excellent buildings and address data into OSM (more on that later) and
 businesses will be able to use this data in their apps and tools without
 worrying about an untested license.

 I'm pretty excited about this, as Chicago is seen as a leader in municipal
 data and other OSM/Open Data folks can point to this as proof that open
 licensing is a very important part of open data.

 -Ian

 [0] https://data.cityofchicago.org/Buildings/Building-Footprints/w2v3-isjw
 [1] http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/narr/foia/data_disclaimer.html
 [2] https://github.com/chicago/



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSportMap database layer

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Dave,

You might be able to build this off the existing GPS upload
functionality. It looks like you can add any kind of tag you want.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Uploading_traces

In general, it would probably be better to have the GPS traces in the
main OSM database, so we can use them for mapping.

You might be able to put something together with a custom OSM GPS
trace uploading app/web site to add the extra tags and something that
shows an OSM map with GPS traces for rendering. Just an idea

Of coarse there is nothing wrong with setting up your own copy of the
OSM server software too.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Dave Sutter sut...@intransix.com wrote:
 There has been discussion from time to time about separate layers of
 data for OSM. One proposal is to use an alternate instance of the OSM
 database to serve as the database for an alternate layer of data.

 While I was riding my biking this morning I thought of a good use for
 such a database layer, a layer holding GPS tracks from recreation
 events such as biking and hiking. There have been and are numerous
 services that do this. The first I know of was MotionBased. I worked
 at such a company myself back in the early days of cell phone GPS on
 Nextel phones.

 Storing such data in OpenStreetMap would be good because it could
 attract a lot of developer attention for clients and services because
 it is open. The data could also be fed back in to help refine the
 trail network of OSM.

 I put up a wiki page here with some dicussion:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSportMap

 At the bottom it talks about generalizing this idea to all kinds of
 data. One example is allowing users to create their own maps on top of
 OSM, like MyMaps from Google. There are many other uses too. I think
 it is a good idea because it can extend OpenStreetMap from being just
 a base map to being an entire online GIS platform where users can
 create any layer they want.

 Dave

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Re: [Talk-us] OSM US Server Infrastructure

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Just a thought on US tag info server, It might be better to just work
on a patch to the existing tag info code/server to support regions
directly. Having our own taginfo server is not that useful if it is
not integrated into the main wiki. The wiki is the major entryway to
the tag info server, without the main wiki integration It will
probably not get used that much.

Setting it up will certainly not do any harm, just presenting an
alternate path before somebody goes through the work in setting it up.

Thanks
Jason


On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
 A us-only taginfo. Frequently the tag usage distribution varies between
 regions which is why there local taginfo instances for a few countries
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taginfo/Sites)



 The taginfo sqlite databases total about 4GB for the planet so this
 shouldn’t take much space, but I’m not sure how much CPU and disk is
 involved in creating the db.



 From: Ian Dees [mailto:ian.d...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:23 PM
 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap
 Subject: [Talk-us] OSM US Server Infrastructure



 Hi talk-us!

 I'm putting together a request to upgrade the OSM US server infrastructure
 and would love to have the community's feedback. To learn more about what
 sort of resources the OSM US chapter currently has to offer, check out the
 wiki page I put together:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Servers

 In general, though, we have a primary machine with lots of memory and a fair
 amount of disk.

 This hardware is currently used to serve imagery tiles proxied from various
 sources and rendered from various Mapnik stylesheets. There's also an
 osm2pgsql database that is kept up to date on an hourly basis.

 Are you working on a project related to OSM and need resources to keep it
 going? Do you have an idea for improving OSM in the US but don't know how to
 proceed? Let me know and we can discuss what sort of hardware might be
 needed.

 -Ian


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Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

It would be possible (perhaps even easy) to filter the available tile
list based on the current bounding box and current zoom level. No
reason to show 100 layers that don't work at the current position in
the map.

My point is that the main osm.org is our front page. If we loosen
up, we will be able to show off the amazing work that is happening
elsewhere with the OSM universe. For example, I did not  now about
ÖPNVKarte before this thread. I think that ÖPNVKarte is really, really
good, and honestly if that map does not make the cut, clearly the bar
is set very way to high. There was a thread just yesterday about bus
stops showing that people are confused about the wiki, what is
rendered on osm org, etc.

Design decisions should not be made by *any* administrative focused
OSM committee. We are wiki based project. If you trust us enough to
edit the map, edit the wiki, etc, it should also flow to this aspect
of the web site. Given the nature of this project, this just sticks
out as out as out of step with how everything else is run. JOSM is
doing it right philosophically and is getting good practical results.

The process should be focused on working out technical and license
requirements. Perhaps, you can use the current process for the hard
coded layers. Otherwise it should go into a wiki page just like JOSM.

Thanks
Jason

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:25 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hi

 The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete
 ballet to vote and decides on these two items.

 Actually, it's the OWG that makes these decisions. The SWG devised the
 process. Vast majority of what the OSMF does in not confidential, but
 certainly could be communicated better.

 Though on this point, this page does a pretty good job of summarizing the
 discussions.
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tiles

 The strategic working group is out of bounds on this issue and needs
 to get out of way. I am certain this heavy process is hurting the
 project.

 This is really a design issue.

 I think the process is ok, if you consider the current site design of tile
 options. If the site design adapts, the process can adapt to it.

 What could improve is the design, setting up better expectations of
 reliability/coverage of different options there ... ie group tile sets into
 visual categories based on expected preformance.
 There was another suggestion on this thread to add configurable tile
 options, not a bad idea. Would also want to make it easy for users who don't
 understand tiles to see more breadth than is there currently.

 One other improvement might be to add zoom restrictions to certain tile
 sets. Everyone would like to see watercolor tiles on osm.org.
 Restricting/warning to some reasonable zoom level that Stamen can support
 (12?) would at least give the option.

 So what do we need? Some design work and little bit of front end and rails
 coding. Pull requests are the reality of improvements to osm.org.

 -Mikel

 * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron

 
 From: Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:27 AM
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process

 Hi,

 This is the wiki document that contains the process for adding new
 tile layers to the main osm page.

 Here is the process.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines

 - Global scope and coverage

 Why does this requirement exist? As an example, if we put a winter
 sports layer up, do we really need to render a map where it does not
 snow? Covering everything makes sense for many layers, but the process
 document has this as a requirements. You could also conceive of
 situations where showing a broken/poor map rendering could be used to
 rally people to action. For example, don't like the satellite images
 for you area, go bang on your local government and get the images
 released.

 - Unique, Interesting

 The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete
 ballet to vote and decides on these two items.

 For example, current transportation map  and the
 http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de map are kind of close the decision was made
 to drop http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de. However, having reviewed
 http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de in my area, I am certain that
 http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de is far better than our transportation map
 for public transportation. For everybody that is mapping train
 stations and bus stops, they should be looking at
 http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de to figure out the best tagging, because our
 default transportation map is doing it wrong. It would not be a big
 deal if we had both layers available. By not using both, I am certain
 our mapping for public transit is worse off.

 We actually have another major software group in OSM that has a
 similar problem. JOSM! I know what you thinking. It is not fair

Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps

[Jason Remillard]

+1 on this, one step at a time. Lets just get the data first.

 I don't think we should worry about importing or standardizing into anything
 yet. That step should happen once we have a pretty good size sample of the
 data so we can figure out what's available.

Thanks
Jason.

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[OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Jason Remillard]

Hello Everybody,

We apparently have a lots extra bandwidth and disk space on our US OSM
servers. Requests have gone out asking for ideas. We are also starting
the google summer of code project suggestions.

I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org,
is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. Basically, we do
not have enough disk, cpu, bandwidth, and people to host them in the
UK. So assuming: we can host them on the US OSM servers, the servers
can handle it, and the map quality is good, etc, etc.  Would there be
any problem adding the following map layers to osm.org?

- an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work
that MapBox did collecting existing images.
- a hiking map, like cycle map, show information posts and route
relations on paths, trails, etc.
- a public transportation map

Perhaps digging deeper,
- Equestrian layer
- Boating/Water recreation layer
- Hunting layer
- ATV layer
- a freshness map, anything older than a year is very dim/missing.
- address map, areas without addresses are marked in ugly bright purple.
- etc

I am sure we could think of many others.

Bottom line, If we build this kind of stuff on the US OSM servers, are
we going to be allowed into osm.org layer menu or not?

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Tom,

Yes, I know about the process. It is good that it is setup :-)

It seems like the technical aspects are addressed by hosting them on
the us OSM servers. The soft / arbitrary criteria are judgment
questions about where the OSM community is at.

However, what I was really asking was given the context I described
combined with the process as currently defined, would any of these
layers have a chance of getting approved?

Thanks
Jason

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
 On 21/02/13 15:05, Jason Remillard wrote:

 I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org,
 is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue.


 It's a nobody has proposed a layer that meets the criteria laid out in the
 policy issue. This is (astonishingly) one area where we do actually have a
 well defined written policy:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines

 Tom

 --
 Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
 http://compton.nu/

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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

 Well öpnvkarte was considered along with the current transport layer and the
 decision was that having two transport layers would be silly and that we
 preferred the one that we are currently offering.

OK, just to be clear. öpnvkarte passed all of the technical
requirements, but was rejected because operations group thought it was
redundant?

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] parcel boundaries and associated data in OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Brian,

All of your questions are good, and like you mentioned, we had a
debate about this in late December. I don't think we (community and
our software) are ready right now to import all of the parcel data in
the US. However, it does not mean we should sit around and do nothing
either!

One of the projects that I was hoping to tackle this year is to setup
an imaging layer in JOSM/potlatch for the MA parcel data. My current
plan is to import the MA parcel shape files directly into postgis and
render them. However, instead, we could first convert the shape file
to an OSM file. Making one big OSM file (perhaps one per state) would
force a bunch of problems to be solved. The data would need to be
collected and scripts would need to written to do the conversion. It
would also force the issue of getting the tags figured out.

Getting that done this year would be real progress!! Rendering this
parcel OSM file into an image layer for JOSM/potlatch would let
everybody in OSM see/work with the data, paving the way for eventual
integration.

If you want to work together let me know. It seems like doing an image
layer for just MA is a bit wasteful in the larger context of OSM.
However, doing more than MA, will be too much work for just 1 person.
Unless somebody else wants to help, I don't plan on doing more than
MA.

Thanks
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] matching external data to OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Frederik,

I never thought of it being used in the context of the overpass API.
But, yes I think it work. You could supply 1 to N OSM entities to the
overpass API (perhaps just an OSM file), and it would return a best
match and a score to data in the OSM database. It could be an
interesting way to deploy this kind of functionality to everybody that
needs it.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,


 On 12.01.2013 19:05, Jason Remillard wrote:

 I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not, if yes, a pointer to
 the old thread would be much appreciated!


 It hasn't been discussed in this form but it has been touched on in several
 discussions revolving around permanent IDs. See
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Permanent_ID for a (very
 basic) implementation.

 In contrast to the approach you sketched, such permanent ID schemes would
 usually find the best match for *one* input object (which could conceivably
 be described by an input geometry too). If I understand you correctly, you
 would be trying to match a set of, say, 1000 houses from an external dataset
 to a selected region from OSM with the aim of having as little average error
 as possible - which would be slighly different from doing one-by-one
 searching.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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[Talk-us] matching external data to OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not, if yes, a pointer to
the old thread would be much appreciated!

People working on imports, QA tools, and others come across the
problem of comparing data in OSM to external data sources. So far, I
have seen proposals that look like git and use change history, or use
some kind of ID in OSM that corresponds to an ID in the external data
set. However, both of these approaches have critical issues. The
external IDs can be deleted or damaged during normal editing. The
change history can be lost if editors delete an area and retrace
rather than move the existing data around. OSM needs to optimize first
and foremost for normal hand editing, so adding restrictions to
prevent either kind of activity obviously should not happen.

There is another approach. We instead should focus on using weighted
matching algorithms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartite_graph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford%E2%80%93Fulkerson_algorithm

This is a well-studied problem. Because our data is basically aligned,
it is not NP hard. Doing 30,000 matches in a minute should be no
problem. The algorithms and new computers are fast enough for real
problems.

The idea is that we make a feature vectors that get turned into a
feature to feature match score. If you are matching buildings use
Euclidean distance between center of masses, area, ratio area to
circumference, etc. If we are doing roads, break things into segments,
and use length, Euclidean distance between center of masses, PCA to
get orientation, etc. If the roads have names, you could add in the
hamming edit distance to score name matches. The feature vectors would
be dependent on the specific kind of data that is being matched, we
would probably need a handful of them to handle all of the different
kinds of data OSM has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_analysis_(digital_geometry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_component_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_distance

For example, if you are matching houses. You would find all of the
houses that are within a specified distance in the external data set
and calculate a match score between the OSM house and each house in
the external data set. This forms a weighted graph between the OSM
data and the external data, with the weight of each edge between the
match score. The match score a derived from the feature vectors. You
then use something like the augmented path maximum flow algorithm to
calculate the globally optimal match.

You would need to fiddle with the scoring and feature vector, but it
would automate the trivial matching, and by inspecting matches with
low scores, would allow the end user to focus his/her attention on
areas that need a person looking at it. If you went crazy, you could
even include the OSM change history to find items that were
intentionally removed from OSM that are still present in the external
data source. The soft matching followed by an optimization will allow
us to compare OSM to existing data as it is now.

It seems like having some code to do this would be useful to a bunch
of different people in OSM. This kind of problem is tackled all the
time by people doing machine learning and image processing.

Has this been tried by anybody? Is there any code available?

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

 * Another is, the threat of importing crappy TIGER ranges is motivating people
 to go  look at available county data. That is fantastic. So as Ian alluded
 to pushing the  conversation forward is itself a motivator

The reason why I pushed the building import is that I am worried about
somebody else importing the tiger address ranges in MA. We have great
address data available in the MA L3 parcels. However, the buildings
need to go in first, so the addresses can go on the buildings. Given
the controversy, I figured it is likely to not be to discussed
publicly until whomever is working it is pretty far along in preparing
it. Once they stick their neck out on the list, they will likely want
to finish it as soon as possible to minimize the hazing time. If the
addresses are already in MA, they will obviously skip us. For
everybody that is asking what is the rush on the building import, now
you know. So, yes Steve's plan worked perfectly

I agree with Steve, that if you can't search for an address and expect
it to work most of the time, the map is really not useful for most
people. It is kind of basic expectation of what a map does.

The quality of the imported road data in MA is very high. I don't
think the people who are mapping in MA are at all unhappy that it is
in the db.

The quality of the building from MassGIS that we are working on
importing is also quite high. It is much better than the 5000
buildings I traced out by hand this fall, I wish I did not trace any
of them and just imported them in December.

Thanks
Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 OSM is not data repository, it's a dataset onto itself. Through years
 of experience, and trial and error, we have found that importing these
 external datasets does not help the project in most cases. Therefore
 we propose different solutions to some of the problems.

I don't think this is the majority view.

- Imports are officially allowed. We have a process defined for doing them well.
- Steve Coast, the project founder, just three months ago asked for a
crazy huge import for addresses.
- For where I map (basically one town) 95% of the data was imported by
others. I am perfectly happy about it. There is still tons of mapping
to do.
- If you watch the user stats page, imports are happening every single
day from all over the world.
- The wiki has over 400 pages devoted to imports, many of them focused
on specific import projects.

When 98% of the data in US was already imported, it seems a kind of
late to be even having this discussion. It is really absurd to ask
people who are are interested in imports to go someplace else, when
imports are a huge part of the map in the US (this is talk-us right?),
have been for a long long time, are happening every single day, are
officially allowed, have the support of the majority of the people in
the project, and our founder just three months ago asked for a new
huge import for addresses. Nobody should be getting asked to leave
over this issue.

In 2009, the open space layer from MassGIS was imported in
Massachusetts. Most of the landuse=conservation in the state come from
this import. I started mapping this year, noticed the problems, and
decided to fix it. I used my local knowledge (I am a member of one of
the local conservation groups), bing images, walking around,
talking/emailing my neighbors, and the MassGIS L3 parcel data. None of
these sources are 100% correct. The authoritative parcel data is not
available to OSM because of a bad license my town uses. I did my best
to synthesize what I think is the most complete and accurate map of
the conservation land. It has been a ton of work figuring this all out
(10x more work than the building import). As far as I know, OSM is
only place to get this information with a good/liberal license. I
think that most (but not Frederik!) people in the project would agree
that this is a net improvement to the map.

I would also like to point out, I was *not* looking for a huge heated
conversation about the scope of OSM, pushing people off to other
projects, etc when I posted my question. It was just a couple of very
small questions about data that has been in the db since 2009. I am
frustrated that my thread was taken over like this. We should rename
this mailing list import-fighting-us-plus-frederik.

Bye
Jason.

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Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Serge,

To answer your questions, consider the following
- Most of the hiking trails in MA were put in over the imported open
space layer.
- Unlike other countries, It is unacceptably risky to go on a hike on
some random trail that might be on private property. You are likely to
find yourself in an unpleasant confrontation with the property owner.

Believe me, I love talking about imports as much as anybody :-) but, I
was hoping to talk more about the 2nd half of the email. When I
started with OSM, the import has long since been done and I was hoping
to have a discussion about how to deal with the existing data. I have
been working on it, but I am not sure if I am doing the best thing.

Thanks
Jason.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Jason Remillard
 remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:

 The open space layer from
 MassGIS was imported several years ago. This has encouraged people to
 map out many of the hiking trails.

 How do you make the connection from The MassGIS open space layer was
 imported to this has encouraged people to map out many the hiking
 trails?

 You're asserting a causal relationship where I see two unrelated events.

 Surprisingly, I think that OSM is
 currently the best/most complete map of hiking trails in Mass.

 Why is that surprising? OSM is the most compete biking map of the UK,
 and Germany. Outdoor activities and OSM have a very close
 relationship.

 In fact
 many of the mappers in Mass came to OSM from the local trail
 committee's (myself included). So reality is that we do have some
 parcel data data in OSM and its inclusion has been a net positive.

 Can you explain how the parcel data is a net positive?

 Also, can you explain why the import there is better than what was
 done in most of the rest of the world, where mappers simply went out
 with a GPS and mapped out the hiking trails themselves?

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Everybody, Frederik

I have been doing the background layer/tracing over technique.

So, Frederik's, says no to all of these parcels types. Not much gray
area in Frederik criteria.

- True conservation land, land that is owned by a private non-profit
or owned by the town that is supposed to be never developed, the
public is allowed to use it for light recreation activities, and
that's it.
- Town land that is open to the public, but is not developed.
Watersheds, parks, undeveloped tracks etc.
- Playgrounds
- Public Schools
- Private land that is open to the public as long as people stay on
the marked trails.
- Private land that has development restrictions, but is not open to the public.
- In between, places like the New England Forestry Foundation, that
harvest tree's, so the land is in fact a forest, but encourages the
public use the land and who's mission is conservation.

Without having a parcel layer, in the openstreetmap.org, the map
would be less useful to people who are trying to figure out where to
take a hike.

Thanks
Jason.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,


 On 28.12.2012 22:16, Jason Remillard wrote:

 So the question is, what should the exact criteria be for including an
 open space parcel in OSM. Consider some of the various types of
 property.


 I'd say anything that is observable on the ground is fine to map. So if
 there's a fence around a parcel or some other demarcation then you can add
 it, but if it's just a line in some government database then don't - because
 it wouldn't make sense for mappers to edit it anyway, and stuff that is only
 used for reference when mapping should be a background layer in your editor
 and not part of the OSM database.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33


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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Just wanted to put my 2 cents on on this.

OSM already has a rough consensus on its relationship to external data
sources. I don't think there we be any controversy saying no thank
you if somebody showed up wanting to import a shape file containing
the habitat of say black bears. We don't import contour data, parcels
(at least in the US), image data, historical roads, light pollution
map, etc. Other data is mostly imported, such as country/state/town
boundaries. I think that this committee should not talk about this
kind of stuff, it is best left to the wider OSM community to handle
the gray areas in this space. It seems to me that the current rough
consensus on what is in/out is pretty reasonable.

We do have a problem of a lot of hurt feeling when somebody new shows
up and wants to do an import. This committee can act as
mentors/facilitators for people with external data sources. We can
help them navigate the existing process as documented on the wiki *off
list*. So that all of the common/expected mistakes can happen in
private, without embarrassment or hard feelings. The benefit to the
community is that when/if an import is about to start, a well formed
RFC will land on the list. The people on the list can stop worrying
about the easy things, and focus on the whatever gray area may exist
for that specific data source. The mentors can also set the
expectations what parts are going to cause heated discussions/versus
items that will be non-issues. Implementing this is easy, get a couple
to volunteers and put their contact info at the bottom of the import
guideline page, saying if you want help figuring this stuff out
please message one of these people, x,y,z. Lets keep all of the real
controversial items on the mailing list. When/if an import is ready,
the person sending the RFC will have a good understanding about what
is going on. Of coarse, if somebody wants to just do it the old
fashioned way and get the full hazing on the email lists, then that
should also be allowed.

With the rapid growth of the project, Soon (perhaps already) most
people in OSM will not be software engineers. Compared to software
people, they will have less awareness of IP law, will be less able to
deal with the wiki, and be much less tolerant of the rough behavior
that is customary between engineers. We will need to give them help
when dealing with external data sources, or they are going to just
leave with hurt feeling and we will lose a new enthusiastic mapper.

Thanks
Jason



On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 Folks,

 I know what it's like to be excited about OSM, and I know what it's
 like to be frustrated with OSM, struggling with low data quality, or
 lack of data altogether.

 And then you get access to a large dataset, and you know that having
 it in OSM would improve things. It would improve the quality, and
 maybe even get people mapping. At the same time, I think many of you
 have seen the damage that bad imports can do.

 The result is that folks like myself and others are frustrated by the
 import process, and folks who have good, useful datasets are frstrated
 by the import process.

 So I'm proposing a new committee, run by the US Chapter, to help guide
 imports and large edits.

 This will give step by step guidance to those who want to import data,
 and offer the larger community time to review and provide feedback.

 When I helped create the US Chapter several years ago, this was one of
 the main reasons I thought it should exist, but I think there's
 finally the amount of data and interest to justify it.

 What do folks think?

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

There are some technical issues that make imports more complicated
than needed. First is the entire user account thing. I don't
understand why it is needed. If something gets screwed up, either way,
we are reverting the change set. Besides discouraging people form the
import, I don't know we benefit it brings. It is like a residual limb
that we needed before we had change sets, but keep seem to bring
ourselves to let it go. The second technical issue that the apparent
JOSM will upload a large change set that can't be easily reverted. It
would be good, if ether JOSM would chop up large changes below the
actual change set limit, or the 50K limit eliminated on the server
side. Not being able to revert something in JOSM is a big issue. We
can't be all relaxed about things if we can't do reverts.

Some people think all imports are are bad, some are just worried they
will be screwed up, in either case the result is the same, a hostile
mob waiting for you on lists. This has the effect of driving most of
the constructive import discussion off list. For my import, 80% of the
useful feedback was off list in private emails because people don't
want to deal with the rude behavior in the list. I made a bunch of
decisions that might seem weird to people that just follow the list.
But I assure you that I cared a whole lot what the 4 people who signed
up actually help thought about all of the issues. For example, I was
upset/surprised today that Greg said we went too fast. I had to weight
peoples opinions on the list much lower because they don't have any
skin in the game (not helping do the work, not from MA, they have an
agenda contrary to the project goal, and they are not in the loop).
Regardless, this is not that much fun, why go through this.

If you setup a user group to help with the imports, I think it will
be overrun with people that don't like all imports or are terrified of
them being screwed up. It will be like the UN human rights committee.
More hostility, but now with an official sounding group name. In a
sane world, there would be mappers that would be dedicated to imports.
They would build up expertise in licensing, data conversion, batch
imports, large scale reverts, OSM processes, merging, efficiently
communicating with locals, etc. However, if you came out and said I
do only imports, you would be getting hazed by the two groups of
people all of the time. Does not sound like fun to me.

This is my most important point. The map in US is not mature. We need
people right now more than we need a good map. I would accept a
screwed map of MA in the short term in return for 20 new dedicated MA
mappers. We should be optimizing everything we do to get more help,
and if the map needs to get screwed up occasionally to accomplish that
I am 110% OK with that tradeoff. This project is not going to take in
the US without a ton more mappers. The population of MA, is 6.5
million people. My little tiny itty bitty state is larger than
Denmark, Slovakia, Finland, Ireland, Lithuania, Latvia, ,etc, etc. I
am not sure we even have 25 active mappers in the state.

Until the people that are still angry about the tiger import from 5
years ago let it go, and the people that are scared of screw ups,
decided that right now, building the community is more important than
the map, nothing is going to change. I think we are likely stuck in
this rut for a long while. I might as well be wishing for world peace.

Jason.


On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:
 Two more quesions just came to my mind:

 - Are there any volunteers who would love to run with guiding imports better?
 - Would also love to learn Jason Remillard's perspective of what could be 
 done better given that he's in the middle of working on the MassGIS building 
 import :)

 On Dec 17, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 Folks,

 I know what it's like to be excited about OSM, and I know what it's
 like to be frustrated with OSM, struggling with low data quality, or
 lack of data altogether.

 And then you get access to a large dataset, and you know that having
 it in OSM would improve things. It would improve the quality, and
 maybe even get people mapping. At the same time, I think many of you
 have seen the damage that bad imports can do.

 The result is that folks like myself and others are frustrated by the
 import process, and folks who have good, useful datasets are frstrated
 by the import process.

 So I'm proposing a new committee, run by the US Chapter, to help guide
 imports and large edits.

 This will give step by step guidance to those who want to import data,
 and offer the larger community time to review and provide feedback.

 When I helped create the US Chapter several years ago, this was one of
 the main reasons I thought it should exist, but I think there's
 finally the amount of data and interest to justify it.

 What do folks think?

 - Serge

 

Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Serge,

You are tougher man than me :-)

How about this, nobody on the committee that has not personally done
at least 1 large import. If you do that, I am happy. Like I said,
these imports require a bunch of specialized skills, it would be good
to build up an expertise in it.

Thanks
Jason.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Jason Remillard
 remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you setup a user group to help with the imports, I think it will
 be overrun with people that don't like all imports or are terrified of
 them being screwed up.

 I haven't received any negative feedback about this committe except
 for yours, so I think maybe your judgement's a bit premature.

 It will be like the UN human rights committee.
 More hostility, but now with an official sounding group name. In a
 sane world, there would be mappers that would be dedicated to imports.

 You seem to have your mind made up about a group that hasn't had its
 first meeting.

 They would build up expertise in licensing, data conversion, batch
 imports, large scale reverts, OSM processes, merging, efficiently
 communicating with locals, etc. However, if you came out and said I
 do only imports, you would be getting hazed by the two groups of
 people all of the time. Does not sound like fun to me.

 Only do things you enjoy, so if it doesn't sound like fun to you, then
 I say don't join.

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Serge ,

I am sorry for being negative. I am feeling grumpy from the building
import ruckus, I probably just need to take break from this for bit.
The US import process is clearly borked right now, and I will support
110% you and anybody that is trying to fix it.  Please ignore my
snarky email(s) and accept my apologies.

Thanks
Jason.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Jason Remillard
remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Serge,

 You are tougher man than me :-)

 How about this, nobody on the committee that has not personally done
 at least 1 large import. If you do that, I am happy. Like I said,
 these imports require a bunch of specialized skills, it would be good
 to build up an expertise in it.

 Thanks
 Jason.

 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Jason Remillard
 remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you setup a user group to help with the imports, I think it will
 be overrun with people that don't like all imports or are terrified of
 them being screwed up.

 I haven't received any negative feedback about this committe except
 for yours, so I think maybe your judgement's a bit premature.

 It will be like the UN human rights committee.
 More hostility, but now with an official sounding group name. In a
 sane world, there would be mappers that would be dedicated to imports.

 You seem to have your mind made up about a group that hasn't had its
 first meeting.

 They would build up expertise in licensing, data conversion, batch
 imports, large scale reverts, OSM processes, merging, efficiently
 communicating with locals, etc. However, if you came out and said I
 do only imports, you would be getting hazed by the two groups of
 people all of the time. Does not sound like fun to me.

 Only do things you enjoy, so if it doesn't sound like fun to you, then
 I say don't join.

 - Serge

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[Talk-us] MassGIS building import - update 1

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The following towns were imported this weekend that were previously mostly
devoid of structures.

Abington, Acton, Acushnet, Alford, Arlington, Ashfield, Auburn, Avon,
Dunstable, Harwich, Leyden, Littleton, Mattapoisett, Millville, Mount
Washington, Nahant, Newburyport, Truro, and Westhampton.

The following towns were imported, but had many existing structures, so
most of the structures are not from this import.

Chelsea, Groton, Malden

The import has finished 6% of the state.

Provincetown was not aligned well and was not imported, everything is
shifted by 4 meters. The bing images looks OK, they align well with the
MassDOT roads. I sent an email to MassGIS about it.

Otherwise, just very small problems. Things like schools missing building
tag, so it gets double imported and bleachers, tents, and storage
containers getting imported. I have cleaned up afterwards all of the errors
that I noticed while importing.

Unfortunately, because of Provincetown, I don't think we can do a full
blown automated import. Each town will need to at least get checked for
alignment first.

We are going to take a break from the import for a bit to give everybody
time to look at the data and see if there are any additional issues.

Thanks
Jason.
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Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - process

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

The script has been getting move around a bit as switched over to
having all of the OSM files in one zip file. I put the script in the
google docs directory, outside of the big zip.

Thanks
Jason.

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jason Remillard
 remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I update the wiki

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MassGIS_Buildings_Import

 Jason,

 While I think it's great you want to help OSM in this way, I have a
 few concerns.

 I think it's great that you've documented the process, but even after
 following a lot of links that point to other links that point to
 Google Docs, I can't find the scripts you use to do the conversion. If
 those script are available at all, they're hard to find and review.

 And the same goes for the timeframe. It seems you documented this on
 Friday and then ran it on Sunday? I don't think I'm the only one who
 sometimes takes email vacations on the weekend, and I didn't feel I
 had time to look over any of the process. I suspect others may feel
 the same way.

 - Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import Start

[Jason Remillard]

Hi Paul
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 A couple of initial comments: 

 ** **

 Has some kind of simplify been run on the data? Although most of the
 buildings are quite good some of the curved ones are overnoded (e.g.
 http://took.paulnorman.ca/imports/massgis/noded.png)


No simplification has been run. Let me see how common that it, get back to
this issue tonight.
 **

 If your documentation conflicts with the requirements of the import
 guidelines (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Use_a_dedicated_user_account)
 around a dedicated account it may lead to people importing your data
 getting blocked.




Seperate from the policy discussion, what should we do.

1. Make one account, share pasword.
2. Have everybody that wants to help make an import account themselves.
3. Upload the data unchanged under one account, then clean it up afterwards
with our normal accounts the next day. Note: we could still do this town by
town.

 **

 You’ve asked for a check of the reprojection in the data directory but I
 don’t actually see a data directory anywhere. Could you provide a link?


The data is here.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B6HixOxli_6ldGVkREtxdk5lWGM/edit

Thanks
Jason.
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Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import Start

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

On second thought, we will ask everybody that wants to help to use their
own import account. Besides the simplifications, and the re-projection
verification does anybody have any other issues?

Thanks
Jason.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Paul
 On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 A couple of initial comments: 

 ** **

 Has some kind of simplify been run on the data? Although most of the
 buildings are quite good some of the curved ones are overnoded (e.g.
 http://took.paulnorman.ca/imports/massgis/noded.png)


 No simplification has been run. Let me see how common that it, get back to
 this issue tonight.
  **

 If your documentation conflicts with the requirements of the import
 guidelines (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Use_a_dedicated_user_account)
 around a dedicated account it may lead to people importing your data
 getting blocked.




 Seperate from the policy discussion, what should we do.

 1. Make one account, share pasword.
 2. Have everybody that wants to help make an import account themselves.
 3. Upload the data unchanged under one account, then clean it up
 afterwards with our normal accounts the next day. Note: we could still do
 this town by town.

  **

 You’ve asked for a check of the reprojection in the data directory but I
 don’t actually see a data directory anywhere. Could you provide a link?


 The data is here.

 https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B6HixOxli_6ldGVkREtxdk5lWGM/edit

 Thanks
 Jason.

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[Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - simplify

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I would like to continue the discussion on the simplification of the
MassGIS buildings in a new thread.

In my town, there are 5427 buildings. 43,628 nodes, or 8 nodes per
structure. I did a 0.25 meter simplify on the entire town, and the node
count went down to 41,809. We are looking at an excess of 5%. 0.25 meter
may seem tight, but consider that source data was from 30cm and 15cm per
pixel, and I am sure the algorithms used do some kind of sub pixel
interpolation. Until I can figure out how to do the simplification from my
scripts, we will add instructions on the wiki on how to do a 0.25 meter
simply on the source layer in JOSM first.

Thanks
Jason
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[Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - merge

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

I would like to start a new thread to talk about merging building data.

My town Groton has mostly hand drawn buildings from bing. Like was
suggested previously, dumping them all and replacing them with the MassGIS
buildings would be a definite improvement of the map quality. My suggestion
is to provide quick instructions on the wiki on how to use the JOSM
conflation plugin combined with the complete MassGIS building data set
should be enough to handle places like Groton.

Are there other possibilities?

Thanks
Jason.
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