Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 6 July 2010 18:48, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: the project to the outside world. If you would ask ten people today what openstreetmap is about you would get ten different answers, that is what you can also see from this thread. If you asked those same 10 people what they want from a map, you'd probably still get 10 different answers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sotm2010 video stream?
On 6 July 2010 23:07, Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu wrote: We are actually planning to do this again, but no guarantees, that's why it's not mentioned yet :) If they can't be streamed live, are they still going to be recorded? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Area-type objects and ways along its boundaries
On 7 July 2010 05:51, Nakor nakor@gmail.com wrote: If the river/road/... is the actual boundary, shouldn't the same way be used for both instead of having duplicate ways? I've seen this done in some places (Ohio IIRC) The boundary might be similar to other features, but unless you like reading a lot of legal documents there is no way to definitively know if a boundary is the other feature. It also makes things more difficult to edit in future if things diverge, but the boundary doesn't move. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] no Maxspeed=* style sheet...
Due to popular demand this has been updated to include most common highway types instead of just residential/unclassified and similar types... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] no Maxspeed=* style sheet...
David Dean wanted to see areas already tagged with maxspeed=* so I created one based on the colours from the JOSM maxspeed style sheet: http://www.dstoecker.eu/josm/maxspeed.xml http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12ll=-27.662,153.131layer=BFFFTFFF You may need to force a refresh, the JS script that defines the map layers tends to be heavily cached by browsers... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] BMW augmenting gps with inertial navigation
BMW has been working on augmenting GPS navigation for some time now, and it took another big step forward in recent weeks with the announcement of its Pathfinder microNavigation system. As the name suggests, that would supplement your basic navigation system with maps and directions for areas not covered by GPS -- a parking lot, for instance -- and it could be continually updated on an as-needed basis, with users able to download so-called microMaps for a specific area before they go on a trip. http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/06/bmws-pathfinder-micronavigation-system-promises-to-augment-gp/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 5 July 2010 12:37, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: Geocoding isn't freely available (unless your needs are small-scale). Housenumbers are the key to geocoding addresses, and without geocoding many useful applications of a map are lost, or at least made more difficult. So I'm reasonably excited about housenumbers. And you may well be in one of the better positions to do something about it more than most, especially if you go ahead with what you were proposing recently. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why quality is more important than routing speed
On 5 July 2010 10:45, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking you could bot an area with the default speed limit then just tag the higher speed roads. You don't need to bot anything, you can easily do this sort of thing in JOSM... The bigger problem is how do you stop some teenager from changing the sped limit on the map. How do you limit/prevent other sorts of abuse? Why would this tag be any more or less prone to abuse? Mind you wouldn't attacking the device limiting speed be quicker/more efficient, since I'm assuming the speed limit information in the device won't be updated in real time etc... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 5 July 2010 19:29, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: actually I don't understand why so many people complain about mapping trees. Trees have generally a longer life cycle than buildings. I like trees and I like to have them in the map. Why should I map postboxes? I hardly send any letters. This whole thread is about the same reason why people complain about others mapping trees, people have what they are interested in and they'd like others to help map them so the map is more useful for them. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 08:50, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: 3) use two separate relations (one amenity=school and one amenity=place_of_worship) that both have the building as the sole member. John might have further thoughts on this [IMHO very hacky] use of relations. Normally I might suggest this, but are we tagging what the thing is/is mostly used for, or do we also tag every minor use as well? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 17:39, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: The only reason you gave against creating multiple nodes was you didn't like it. Seems fine to me. Especially since the church and school in this case are not really co-located: the centre of the There is no church, they're using a school hall for church based activities... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 18:52, Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: Depends on the definition of church. If you mean 'building with pointy roof' then no (although some church buildings don't have pointy roofs). If you mean the congregation then yes. Depends on what the map is being used for - if (for example) someone is looking for a place to attend a church meeting on a GPS, then it makes sense to appear, the question becomes how best to tag it. If we're tagging what's on the ground, then it's a school hall, if you want to do minor uses this would nearly need to be done as a relation simply because the primary use should take precedent. What if scouts also meet there, how about PC meetings, parent teacher nights, school dances, how many nodes do you plan to add on the same location for a single building? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 19:09, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: On 05/07/10 17:49, John Smith wrote: There is no church, they're using a school hall for church based activities... church is a significant amenity provided by that building, surely. It is, by all accounts, a place of worship. At most the church (as an organisation) makes use of a location, what's on the ground is a school facility that may have many such uses... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 20:06, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Which we're not. There is no on the ground rule, guideline, axiom, suggestion or anything. Can we stop using this non-existent guiding principle? Ok, if we're not tagging physical objects what are we tagging? The gold brick road to Oz? Yep, this strategy would definitely break down. Although I do think place of worship is a little bit special. Shouldn't the amount of use be more defining? What if it's used for basketball 5 days a week, but church for one hour on Sundays? The 4 options Roy presented all seem somewhat reasonable, but we need to make this kind of decision once, on a big scale: OSM now supports semicolon-separated value lists: developers please take note. Not just piecemeal for each individual situation where the current key=value structure is limiting. OSM has for a long time supported semi-colon separated, but most software doesn't bother to parse it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 20:21, ed...@billiau.net wrote: Interesting as the church as a building is a corruption of the original meaning I did try to make this point clear by stating organisation v building, however it's a little difficult to geographically map organisations, so all we're left with is mapping buildings. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] no Maxspeed=* style sheet...
As per David Murn's request/suggestion/wish for a no maxspeed layer similar to the noname layer, I made a overlay style sheet that shows ways similar to the noname style sheet, red lines, for ways that don't have a maxspeed=* value: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=7ll=-27.070,153.255layer=BFFTFFF ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 6 July 2010 02:08, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: What about.. draw the school as an area/building, then simply put a single node for place_of_worship in the hall, maybe with opening_hours or something similar. So if there is 10 uses/users of the hall, we need to place 10 nodes? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 4 July 2010 18:28, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: It is because of other reasons that major companies are not using OSM. If companies already pay for data with more restrictive licenses than OSM offers, then I can only assume the license issue is just a sticking point because the data might not be perceived as good. Therefore I can only conclude that at some point the license will become a non-issue once the perception shifts that the data is good enough to replace commercial alternatives... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 4 July 2010 23:00, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I agree about the importance of being able to find a location via its postal address. One of the most frequent reasons for looking up a location on an online map is so you can find out where on a long street a particular address is located. This is one of the chief advantages that an online map has over a paper map. That's just a rendering issue, paper maps could just as easily print the street numbers, digital map data does have it's unique advantages though, like integration with positioning information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 5 July 2010 00:16, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: True, but paper maps are usually not printed at a scale where including street numbers are practical. Other than street directories? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 5 July 2010 04:57, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: My personal opinion is that the strengths of OpenStreetMap lies in the large decentral knowledge. And I think it would make more sense to steer some of this local power in a certain direction. I consider it a waste of resource if people map trees unless attributes with a wider use have been captured in this region. I am pretty sure that some of these people who map trees would be happy giving a hint what is important for the OpenStreetMap community and map other elements instead. And until nobody tells them what is important for the OpenStreetMap community they map what they think is right. The problem here is people are better off doing what they find interesting, if they are forced, or feel forced to go in a certain direction they may tire or become bored and loose interest entirely in OSM. If you want people to do something they're not interested in doing you will have to come up with greater incentives for them, but just telling them they should do it for the greater good isn't it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 5 July 2010 06:02, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: How do you want to find the right licensing, funding and communication approach (to avoid the word strategy) without having a strategic goal? There is fundamental differences between facilitating volunteers and running a company, volunteers aren't paid and don't tend to do well being told what to do... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 4 July 2010 23:33, Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: I'm planning to add a local church, but rather than having its own building, it meets in a local primary school hall. What would be the best way to tag this? It's not really a church if it's a school hall, the church (organisation) just uses it occasionally... I don't think there has been much discussion about occasional occupation of other locations... You might want to post to the tagging mailing list to see what people in other countries have done... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 3 July 2010 19:50, Konrad Skeri kon...@skeri.com wrote: One possibility is to just use highway=link and then let the renderes sort out the rest. A link is after all just a link no matter what it It may not be possible for preprocessing or renderers to figure it out. connects, so there's really no reason for a *_link except when tagging for the renderer, which we shouldn't do. As a few people pointed out, we always tag some things for the renderer, like highway=primary/secondary/etc... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 3 July 2010 20:35, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 July 2010 11:18, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: As a few people pointed out, we always tag some things for the renderer, like highway=primary/secondary/etc... I disagree that this is tagging for the renderer. Rather, it is rendering for the tags. The highway tag assigns a role (importance, build quality, or whatever is considered good in the particular region) and the renderer presents them differently. Personally I don't see a point for anything but motorway_link, but what is the difference between what you said and what others are suggesting for other *_link roads? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 3 July 2010 20:39, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: license. In essence I would like to understand who is intended to benefit from a PD-license, mappers, consumers, developers, companies, data donors? I Some data is being released in Australia from governments under cc-by licenses, and they would possibly benefit from OSM having a cc-by compatible license, I'm sure some other donors would be in the same boat. I think Sam has mentioned some Canadian government data is being released without any restrictions and they wouldn't be able to accept any data back unless there was no restrictions, so in this case a PD license would benefit donors. I think most declarations by end users are more moral than anything, in that most end users wouldn't stand to gain anything tangible directly regardless of what the license is. I doubt most consumers or developers would gain anything directly, usually they benefit from services but is it OSM's place to demand how the data should be used? NGOs might benefit from a more liberal license, simply because they may be able to build up their own from different sources, although those sources then might claim copyright due to being a derivative product. In my mind, the main beneficiary would be companies selling products or services and gaining a competitive advantage over their competition by not being required to share any changes they make. This in turn might be detrimental for consumers and developers because they may want to use the most consistent map source but not necessarily the best license or price for their users and so on. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 3 July 2010 21:14, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: Firstly, I haven't suggested anything for *_link roads, I've simply disagreed with your assertion that our use of the highway tagging represents tagging for the renderer. On balance I tend to prefer links that know what type of road they belong to. As noted, this is indispensable for motorways, because: I fail to see how you have disagreed, you are twisting logic to suit yourself, on one hand it's ok to arbitrarily tag various highway=* tags, but on the other hand it's not ok to arbitrarily tag highway=*_link... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 3 July 2010 21:30, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: I think any road can have a link road (trunk, primary, etc), especially any grade-separated crossings, which dont necessarily have to be motorway. For large intersections with separate slip-lanes, I often mark the slip lanes as *_link, which also allows you to tag pedestrian crossings across the link. You can do all that without needing to tag it as a *_link though, and at this stage I doubt *_link's get treated any differently, although they could be implied to mean lanes=1, oneway=yes kind of thing, but at present don't... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 3 July 2010 22:40, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: If it is for the sake of compliance with licenses of data donors then there will always be cases that fit with one license type and don't fit with with other license types. It might also be that the majority of data donors prefer a more restricted license. If this is the main point it would be interesting to see any hard facts that a cc-by license would lead to more data donations. I'm not aware of any entities that would share more data if OSM used a cc-by compatible license, in fact I've been told some governments agencies are unhappy that they have to share at all, but they definitely would not be happen with anything less than an attribution style license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 3 July 2010 23:09, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: It's not OK to arbitrarily tag highways. But different parts of the world have established different norms according to which they do so. By norms you mean making arbitrarily decisions on highways, rather than any kind of objective criteria... So this is ok under certain circumstances... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 3 July 2010 23:16, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: 4. It is my personal opinion that advocates of share-alike licenses are driven less by the desire to create something great, but more by the desire to ringfence, protect, defend what they think is their property against imaginary powers of evil. I am opposed to the idea of property in this context. Anyone who goes outside, sees a lamp post, writes down that he has seen a lamp post, and then goes on to derive intellectual property rights from this action should go away and join the RIAA. But that is my personal opinion and we have many ardent share-alike supporters in OSM whose work and dedication have done a lot to further OSM's success and I, grudgingly, respect their predilection. What you quoted had nothing to do with share-a-like, but was specifically about attribution... As I pointed out in a previous email, the issue of license for most contributors is a moral one and doesn't directly effect contributors one way or another, as long as it fits their sense of morals. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 3 July 2010 23:16, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: 2. Imports and government cooperation are not crucial to OSM's success. What would make OSM successful in your eyes? I thought one of the goals was to have OSM used more widely? If so government users should be given the same consideration as any other group of potential users regardless if they give data to OSM or not, for them to be able to utilise OSM the license has to be acceptable for them to use it just like any other entity. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 3 July 2010 23:27, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: But the underlying idea of property is required for attribution as well; you cannot force people to provide attribution without first claiming that the data is yours and yours alone and only by following your license will people be allowed to use it. That's a very dim view of things imho, what about giving credit simply to acknowledge the work of others, rather than ripping off the efforts of others and claiming it as your own. While the license might spell it out in legal terms, this is common courtesy, plain and simple in my view, and if people were generally nicer to each other we wouldn't have the need for licenses and lawyers and so on in the first place! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 4 July 2010 01:34, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 July 2010 14:14, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 July 2010 23:09, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: It's not OK to arbitrarily tag highways. But different parts of the world have established different norms according to which they do so. By norms you mean making arbitrarily decisions on highways, rather than any kind of objective criteria... So this is ok under certain circumstances... By norms I mean norms. But feel free to keep telling me what I mean. Well please describe the objective criteria you use to tag highways then... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osm.org Routing Demo
On 4 July 2010 01:46, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Since a fair number of home computers pcs these days have quad cores, 6 or more gigs of memory and 64 bit operating systems, perhaps it might make sense to come up with a Windows stand alone solution and decentralise the server computing requirements. This isn't just a CPU issue, you also have large chunks of data to deal with, people also expect instantaneous results so farming it out isn't likely to help on both accounts. Does anyone know how well this sort of thing could be dealt with by something like hadoop/mapreduce? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 4 July 2010 01:56, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 July 2010 16:54, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: All that has happened is the arbitrary decisions have been deferred to someone else, in this case some government entity... That doesn't mean highways are classified by objective criteria :) I think you need to buy a dictionary. You said it yourself: We do have a dilemma for how to fit 3 grades of local road into tertiary and unclassified Meaning you are trying to make an arbitrary decision, because someone else hasn't made it for you. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osm.org Routing Demo
On 4 July 2010 02:07, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: I was only thinking of using the local computer resources for the local user, not going cloud. For that specific problem you still have a large chunk of data to transfer before the local computer resource can do something useful with it, the bigger the distance between way points the more data that needs to be transferred. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osm.org Routing Demo
On 4 July 2010 14:15, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 July 2010 04:21, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Many users are only interested in the local city and not too worried about having the latest version of the map. People have used three year old printed maps quite happily for years and for foot, public transport and cycling a cached map on the device works fine most of the time. Render with something like Maperitive and you don't need an Internet connection. Run it on a tablet and you have the ideal tourist map that can show you how to get from here to there without having a 3G data plan. I'm not saying its perfect for everyone but it may work for some and thus lower the demand on the servers. There is already plenty of tools for doing offline rendering, the point of this was to put rendering on the OSM website... rendering/routing... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osm.org Routing Demo
On 4 July 2010 04:21, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Many users are only interested in the local city and not too worried about having the latest version of the map. People have used three year old printed maps quite happily for years and for foot, public transport and cycling a cached map on the device works fine most of the time. Render with something like Maperitive and you don't need an Internet connection. Run it on a tablet and you have the ideal tourist map that can show you how to get from here to there without having a 3G data plan. I'm not saying its perfect for everyone but it may work for some and thus lower the demand on the servers. There is already plenty of tools for doing offline rendering, the point of this was to put rendering on the OSM website... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 4 July 2010 07:22, Oliver (skobbler) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de wrote: What would make OSM successful in your eyes? I thought one of the goals was to have OSM used more widely? This is the right type of question but you need to create an even more basic understanding: I haven't seen a common understanding of the definition of OSM's success. Where did you find the goal of a wider use? Wider use by I didn't find it anywhere, but what's the point in having the best maps in the world if no one uses them? Some people in support of ODBL have stated companies are worried cc-by-sa is too ambiguous and so they won't use OSM data, I'm trying to find the page it was listed on, but there is quite a few pages for/against ODBL... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 4 July 2010 14:34, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: The point is that *no* major company actually said, 'if you switch to ODbL then we will use it', while it is a claim companies don't use OSM because of cc-by-sa. I don't see the problem solved, do you? I doubt I'd make it very public if a license switch was in the interest of my company ahead of it actually going through, not that it will be more beneficial to any company I work for either way, simply because if it doesn't go through I would then be at a disadvantage... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 2 July 2010 18:55, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: In addition, it is clear that people are almost equally split between SA licenses and PD domain, and it would be difficult to achieve any kind of Actually there is a 3rd option, some people prefer cc-by... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways
On 2 July 2010 21:18, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, totally. And there are even people using osm2pgsql for processing non-OpenStreetMap data, so one of my projects is to try to remove all the hardcoded tags (from z-order calculations through to the type tag on relation handling or the area tag on ways) and put them into configuration files. How hard would it be to calculate the admin_level of a way from the relation information during import? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Local entity... again...
These aren't official definitions and this isn't meant to be any kind of tax advice so always consult an accountant etc etc etc.. To clarify a few terms first, 'Tax Deductibility Status' (TDS) means any monetary donations enable the person or business donating to claim this on their personal of business tax returns. 'Tax Concessions' (TC) means if you incur a tangible cost, such as petrol, for the purposes of enabling a non-profit entity to further it's goals. Someone brought up an interesting point the other day I'd completely forgotten about, even without TDS there is a chance we would still be eligible for TC when donating time to OSM related activities. While I highly doubt you'd be able to claim your time spent on this activity you might be able to claim direct costs like petrol and depending on the primary purpose things like GPS devices, although it would definitely be a stretch trying to claim things like computers. Also it seems like a good to register an organisation now that the new tax year has just clocked over, can people please read over the proposed association rules, as they'll be submitted some time next week for incorporation, I have access to an accountant in NSW to use for this, so if no one has any objections I'll get it processed in NSW. https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZf0jIYShBc0ZGNicXR6OXZfMGdoOGsycGZihl=en ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Local entity... again...
Forgot to include this PDF I was sent: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/Water_Taxation_Win.pdf ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] LCA 2011 Call for papers is closing soon...
If anyone wanted to do a paper at LCA2011 you'd better get in quick... http://kangawallafox.com/2010/07/02/lca2011-call-for-papers-approaches/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways
On 1 July 2010 16:17, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Rather, you want multiple ways to share a name. This does sound like a job for the renderer to me. Or you can help things out by putting the name into a relation and adding the segments of way as members... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways
On 1 July 2010 17:59, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote: This results in even more complicated situation and even more work to maintain such data. And even if do you follow this practice, there will still be huge amounts of legacy data which do not. I think if two streets share the same name and are adjacent to each other, it is reasonable for renderers to assume it's the same street. Depending on the number of segments it would still make more sense to put this information into a relation, since you are reducing the amount of redundant data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways
On 1 July 2010 19:16, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: I've got situations where a side road name continues across a main road, and it looks distinctly odd (must happen all the time in grid You also get the situation where roads are broken by dual carriage way or other natural features like waterways where the name continues but the road doesn't cross the barrier. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Web service with OSM contributor names + copyright
On 1 July 2010 20:05, Jaak Laineste (Nutiteq) j...@nutiteq.com wrote: contribution comes out, but in other regions you don't and we could increase number of mappers with some soft compensations which cost nothing and show appreciation to their effort. It could also lead people to do mass changes, with no real differences just to get their name on all maps everywhere... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Web service with OSM contributor names + copyright
On 1 July 2010 21:11, Jaak Laineste j...@nutiteq.com wrote: Of course, this is the obvious risk here. There are probably foursquare users who are just adding fake venues just to get 1000 points per week etc. But we have simple solution for that: blocking. First user, then IP. Just like any other vandalism. If the incetive is not really too strong, then I doubt it will ever need more handling. This sort of vandalism will be much harder to detect. It's obvious to see intensional damage, but take for examples some of the mass updates people do, eg remove tiger tags, this was valid. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] correcting/helping inexperienced mappers
On 2 July 2010 14:07, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: up till now, i've corrected mistakes as i've seen them, but he does so much it's become a hell of a job, and feels like pointless duplication of effort That's not helping him, generally if I spot mistakes I send a short email pointing out the mistake and ask if they need help fixing them, rather than just fixing them, they may figure out their own mistakes in time but there will be a lot of mistakes before that happens in the mean time. i guess this is more of a training/diplomacy issue than mapping per se, but i was never great at either of those I'd suggest it's more of a mentoring thing than anything more formal, rather than anything more official, just ask if they're aware of the mistakes, just be polite and a little tactful about it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 70, Issue 76
On 29 June 2010 16:55, Mike Harris mik...@googlemail.com wrote: However, I would not use 'unclassified' for the above reason nor 'residential' if there were no houses and it was rural rather than urban. I would normally go for track - but add sufficient further tags (tracktype= and/or surface=) to make the physical condition clearer. This also helps with the rendering - although we don't map fr the renderer do we ;-) ;-) I did make a proposal last year to try and clarify the key/value, but most people seem to think unclassified is good enough: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway:rural In any case, this would be one of those regional differences you pointed out, I wouldn't consider them to be tracks, as tracks are something that exist in national parks, where as this example was a through fare between rural roads, even if there are no houses, the through fare bit is the important bit. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parks, Recreation Grounds, Sports Centers, and Pitches
On 30 June 2010 08:30, Dylan Semler dylan.sem...@gmail.com wrote: I'm really not sure where recreation ground fits in and how it differs from a park. As mentioned in the discussion on the recreation ground wiki page[1], the fact that it is under landuse= whereas park and pitch are under leisure= furthers my confusion. Perhaps recreation grounds should be contained within a park, outlining the parts where sports and other physical activities can be performed? The definition has recently changed to mean something different than intend especially since it was voted on. I can't speak for other countries, but they are common in rural areas in Australia, although in the page history it mentions being common in British countries. In Australia they are often used for horse sports, now the definition sounds like just another park. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas
On 29 June 2010 23:18, Markus marku...@bigpond.com wrote: I am not sure if it is an approved tag. Although I quite like the idea of it. If it serves a useful purpose and it doesn't duplicate the functionality of another tag already well used, then just use it, tags don't need to be official, although a little common sense can be a good thing :) Several trivial tags put to a vote of late drew out an anti-voting movement, where the response was to just use it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas
On 30 June 2010 11:55, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you actually going to put the fact that it is a State forest anywhere? Sure, landuse=forest is not a problem, but some sort of tag stating that it is a state forest (as opposed to private land) sounds appropriate. Most state forests, are called such and such state forest... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] rural highway tagging: residential or track
You should have sent this to the tagging list... On 28 June 2010 21:08, Stan Berka stan.be...@gmail.com wrote: I have frequently a tagging dilemma. See this example: Coburn Rd on this location: http://osm.org/go/z...@yoeg-- (N of US 2). It was tagged as residential, but I've been there two days ago and it's a decent compacted gravel road, almost 2-car wide primarily for agricultural use, although it does connect farms, and probably can be even be used as through-road (to get from one highway to another). Category residential seemed to me to be primarily for urban setting. So, the best I thought for this one would be track. But this is rendered almost like a path (the dashed line). What are your thoughts? In australia we tag these as highway=unclassified http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dunclassified ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] rural highway tagging: residential or track
On 28 June 2010 21:27, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: Unclassified with paved=no or surface=gravel? I was recently exploring Siberia (behind my computer!) and saw some primary roads where it was obvious from a website (by that mapper) that these were sand and dirt roads. So I wouldn't let the surface decide what classification road it is. I would reserve track for single-lane roads/tracks. Just like surface, lanes don't describe the type of road. Per the wiki unclassified roads can be such that both cars need to pull onto the shoulder of the road so they can pass each other... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] rural highway tagging: residential or track
On 28 June 2010 22:12, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: track is more towards you better have 4WD and you ought to have a reason to be using this although these aren't hard rules. You can use normal cars on what I'd consider tracks, but they are usually a lot less maintained and are in national parks and such, rather than for connecting farms etc... * meaning: does the government consider this a road, or a place you can drive off road. The presence of any of speed limit signs, maintenance by county highway dept, government snow plowing would mean the government thinks it is a road. In places that don't get snow they may use a grader to level the road every so often to take out the corrugates... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grader http://www.expedition360.com/australia_lessons_science/2001/07/corrugated_roads.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Centre for Spatial Law and Policy Launched
The Centre for Spatial Law and Policy has launched. From the entry: The Centre for Spatial Law and Policy, a non-profit organization focusing on the legal and policy issues associated with the collection, use and distribution of spatial and location data, opened its doors in Richmond, VA today. [...] The Centre plays a critical role in the development and implementation of policies and laws that result in a consistent and transparent legal and policy framework on these important issues. [...] Founding members include: Google, DigitalGlobe, DMTI Spatial Inc., GeoEye, ESRI, Lockheed Martin, Rolta International. and PCI Geomatics. http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/8209-Centre-for-Spatial-Law-and-Policy-Launched.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] wiki down ?
On 29 June 2010 14:33, colliar colliar4e...@aol.com wrote: I can not get onto any wiki page. Any problems ? From what I've been able to gather it's been down for an hour or so. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
On 28 June 2010 01:38, Johnny Rose Carlsen o...@wenix.dk wrote: Hi Alan, It's a siren, they are pretty common in Denmark. In Denmark they are used as part of a general warning system, I don't know the use of the sirens in your area. Similar things exist in various places for tornado warnings in the US... http://www.ci.sand-springs.ok.us/news-entry.php?cat=1063id=1086 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
I just found a site that lists the location of their tornado warning sirens... http://www.springfield.il.us/Safety/Fire_Dept/Sirens.htm Their larger map doesn't look very nice, maybe someone could do up a better OSM based image to offer to them :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
On 28 June 2010 14:32, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: There was some discussion about them on the talk-us mailing list back in May: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2010-May/003230.html I noticed during that discussion there was talk about homeland security and some FUD about people collecting this information so they could 'hack' the sirens. I'm guessing most sirens are fairly visible, otherwise they wouldn't be very effective at alerting people when there was a need to use them, which basically means anyone with nefarious purposes won't need a map to find them. Not to mention the link I posted before where that city/county publishes their own map on the web, how sensitive can these locations really be. Unless we're talking security through obscurity, which isn't security at all. This was a very good article on why anything that is public knowledge shouldn't be excluded from being on maps: http://www.ogleearth.com/2010/06/on_the_virtues.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs
On 27 June 2010 17:51, Tom Brennan webs...@ozultimate.com wrote: Fair enough. However, I think it's out of date enough that you could just make the changes anyway. It will probably spur some Sydneysiders to then tidy it up. This thread prompted at least one person to update their info a little :) I've also removed the section that prompted this thread to see if anyone will be upset at all. It's the Cloudmade layer. Even with a cache refresh it's still months out of You have to force the tiles to be redrawn by viewing the tile and putting /dirty on the end, otherwise you see the cached tiles. date in the area I'm interested in. I had to Google BTC to find out what it was, but its NoName layer is much more up to date. Sorry, I thought the URL was common knowledge :) http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=11ll=-33.866,151.028layer=BFTFFF There is a couple of big red blobs around Blacktown and Penrith... Also no one replied to my post about stopping things from showing up on the noname layer, so I just pushed the current thoughts to the Aussie tagging guidelines page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#How_can_I_tag_streets_with_missing_signs.2Fno_names.3F ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs
On 28 June 2010 08:16, Tom Brennan webs...@ozultimate.com wrote: Like this ? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.7127lon=150.4666zoom=15layers=000BFTF/dirty I filled in all the streets in this area back in April. As David wrote, you need to view the individual tiles and add dirty to the end: eg if the image is http://c.tile.cloudmade.com/fd093e52f0965d46bb1c6c6281022199/3/256/15/30078/19646.png You do this: http://c.tile.cloudmade.com/fd093e52f0965d46bb1c6c6281022199/3/256/15/30078/19646.png/dirty but that's a complete pain in the butt to do, especially if you have to force a lot of tiles to be re-drawn ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas
On 28 June 2010 10:24, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote: Current practice seems to be tagging them all as boundary=national_park, regardless of whether they're National Parks or other things like State Forests. Would adding national_park=state_forest and similar to the tags be a good idea? State forests aren't the same thing as national parks, state forests are government operated logging areas... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney Wiki page actively discourages mapping pubs
On 27 June 2010 00:08, Tom Brennan webs...@ozultimate.com wrote: With the high res Nearmap imagery, the places to go are between Penrith and Blacktown. At least half of those suburbs still need their residential streets named. Perhaps we should use it to suggest places for people to go if they're interested in contributing? Since I'm not in Sydney I was hessitent to make changes, at least without announcing ahead of time. Speaking of which, the NoName layer appears way out of date. There are streets I named a couple of months ago that still haven't made it off that layer. Is it still being regenerated? Is this the BTC noname layer or the Cloudmade noname layer? Cloudmade seem to cache very heavily and while they seem to have more up to date data, you have to force a refresh to see it. BTC tiles should be up to date, the should be expiring based on the minutely changesets now, but browsers may be caching the tiles. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 25 June 2010 16:10, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: I think you misunderstand my proposal. I agree that is_in is redundant and should not be added to the map. As you say, it can be derived from admin boundaries. However, not every programmer might want to have to download all the admin boundaries and work out what is in what. Conceivably, it might help some applications if there were an option for the server to automatically add is_in tags, generated from admin boundaries, when some map XML is downloaded. That way the code to work it out only has to be written once. You are talking about pre-processing, that is taking the data and manipulating it and then doing something in another app with it, and this isn't something that has to be done with OSM directly, or even at all. A road could appear as a dead end because of bad mapping - but then anything else on the map could also be bad mapping rather than reality. Anyway it's just an example. I doubt you can make an assumption of a dead end, it might be a mapping mistake, or a way that hasn't been surveyed completely. True, but if a way is tagged highway=steps or slope=yes, it's a pretty safe bet that going from layer 0 to 1 is uphill, and 1 to 0 is downhill. Even though in theory there is nothing to guarantee that. (And if elevation is tagged, uphill and downhill markers can be deduced for certain.) Most layer tags apply to bridges, not to steps because they don't go over the top of anything else. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Postgres table sizes
On 25 June 2010 20:23, Chris Jones roller...@sucs.org wrote: Any overhead is typically a percentage of the stored data for indexes and such, you cant just magically get rid of it! I was under the impression that it was incremental data from minutely updates... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Russia becoming more open with mapping?
Mapping and cadastral information for Russia have not previously been openly and freely available. These products were edited, censored often and in many cases the work was simply not completed, thus the framework for building a modern digital cadastre system did not exist. Times change and the situation changes, and it is rapidly changing for the better. http://www.vector1media.com/vectorone/?p=5802 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
On 24 June 2010 23:00, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Can I see some documentation on this theft? Why dont you start with some dcma takedown notices for the people selling them, and see what happens? You do realise DCMA is only for sites hosted in the US right? You seem to have bias here maybe because you, or someone you knew, has spent money obtaining them, in any case copyright is usually the default, not public domain and unless you know otherwise you should always assume the worst. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 25 June 2010 00:22, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: And I still haven't read why you think this is better, apart from rendering issues. As Andy said, the burden of demonstrating the goodness of a change is up to who wants to make that change. I've been following this thread and I've seen the back and forth, but the argument for/against routing seems pointless because *_link roads aren't usually very long so I can't see how it would effect anything. Same goes for rendering, regardless who wins this debate the other side will just end up tagging how they think things should be rendered. I can see a point for motorway_links, these are a specific sort of road, but the same thing does hold true for other roads, unless they were simply meant to imply oneway=yes, lanes=1 kind of thing, but I doubt they're currently rendered in that way. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Postgres table sizes (was: Failed to download 9.5 GB planet)
On 25 June 2010 00:28, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: overall disk use ~ 130 GB and growing about 2.5 GB/week at the moment. Is there a way to reduce this overhead without re-importing? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 25 June 2010 02:59, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: download a section of map. As well as taking care of the different kinds of link road, these could also provide 'is_in', 'leading_to' and 'dead_end' for dead_end can't be guessed at, it could be bad mapping, is_in is redundant, you can use admin boundaries to derive this. streets, and uphill/downhill for slopes (based on the layer of the endpoints). Layer has nothing to do with elevation, it only indicates which road goes over the other road there may not be any slope involved. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Postgres table sizes (was: Failed to download 9.5 GB planet)
On 25 June 2010 04:37, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I'm not sure I understand your question. Over time, the overhead increases, not just the amount of data. You can import a bounding box or extract and have smaller tables. You can import without --slim, if you have the hardware for it, and I didn't mean without the slim option. lose some large tables. But then you lose the ability to update unless you do a re-import. That's my question, how to eliminate overhead in the database without re-importing. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!
On 23 June 2010 21:29, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: I'm not going to start an edit-war, I'd prefer someone with the proper rights to revert that edit. Then we can start discussing the matter, and file bugs where needed. What are these proper rights to which you refer? The page isn't locked so any wiki user has the right to change it. Perhaps he meant the person that changed it in the first place... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
On 24 June 2010 00:13, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Without attempting to express much of an interest in tagging discussions, it would be great if you were to use the word sidewalk to describe the paths-along-the-edge-of-roads. The word footway might footpath=* :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?
On 23 June 2010 19:39, Tom Brennan webs...@ozultimate.com wrote: The best work on the SRTM data is probably by Sean Williams (Dooghan) on gpsaustralia.net. He has created Garmin IMG files with 5m contours, though with 90m data, 5m is pretty optimistic. Looks nice though. http://www.lizarddrinking.net/index.htm There is a small shell script on the OSM wiki, combined with a few GIS tools can be used to import data at various contour intervals into pgsql. There is other tools which I'm still to play with that can provide hill shading relief. So far I imported 10m intervals + a single 2m contour that seems like it might be useful to map currently unmapped islands, I still need to add this as a slippymap custom tile URL in JOSM and play with it further... GA data does have a ? over the licensing. The GA site is licensed using GA also has a 1 second set of SRTM data that has been adjusted to fix it for vegetation problems, but it's listed as government use only. I thought I noticed a while back that Nearmap was planning on doing some stuff in the DEM space, so maybe they'll have something down the track? If and when they do, it'll still only be a relatively small area of under 2% the surface area of Australia. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Qld State Controlled Roads data
I've just updated the wiki and the data file on the server to include operator=mainroads.qld.gov.au this way we can track the number km of roads that are state or local for statistical purposes. I also updated the wiki and the data file yesterday after getting advice on proper attribution. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
On 21 June 2010 16:11, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: If historical data is really desired then it seems like there need to be some features added to support it. By default historical data should obviously not be rendered but it also shouldn't even show up in By default things should stay as the status quo, how this is implemented will be the hard thing. With the filtering code that now exists in JOSM this could be done by editors, but it only takes one editor that does filter to have a lot of hard work suddenly be deleted, so realistically this needs server side changes. Rendering on the other hand will be more tricky, although for most people this will most likely only need osm2pgsql tweaking to filter out historical data by default. editors unless you explicitly specify it via some option. Otherwise new mappers are going to be like I surveyed this area and there is no road there! and hit delete without giving it another thought. Heck, I've done that. There were two hospitals being rendered in my city that no longer exist. One is a frat house and the other is an apartment building. I deleted them because having a hospital icon show up in a map where there is no hospital is most definitely a BAD thing. Erm deleted or altered the tags? If they still exist, but have other uses they shouldn't have been deleted... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
On 21 June 2010 21:03, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: And exactly how do you propose that we get accurate coordinates for the positions of streets in 1665 other using a modern surveyed overlay? I don't think Samuel Pepys supplemented his diary with GPS derived WGS84 coordinates. :-) Doesn't most countries have their own datum that is fixed to the tectonic plate and they keep track of this in relation with WGS84? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Finding relation members in osm2pgsql PostGIS database?
On 22 June 2010 01:15, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: I've got a PostGIS database created and maintained with osm2pgsql. For some of the Mapnik rendering I'm doing, I'd like to see whether ways belong to relations. (Specifically, whether a highway=* way is a member of a route=road relation.) I've been able to look in the planet_osm_rels table for relation membership, but the members are stored in an array, and searching those arrays for membership, even on a bbox-restricted subset, is really slow. Is there any way to do this faster? If not, I suppose I can file a feature request against osm2pgsql for an indexed relation membership table. osm2pgsql probably isn't the best tool for the job, relations get stored as geometries in the database, rather than meta information cross referencing the ways. What you are after is a database structure similar/the same as the main OSM DB to be able to do this kind of interrogation rather than trying to interrogated pre-processed information which has lost some/a lot of non-desirable attributes to make rendering faster. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Rivers and streams
On 21 June 2010 17:59, Markus marku...@bigpond.com wrote: It does look like the data is from about 10 to 15 years ago. Could I use this data instead. https://www.ga.gov.au/products/servlet/controller?event=GEOCAT_DETAILScatno=64459 I couldn't see where to download it, the files some times come with licenses that differ from cc-by Also the area covered is quite small... N Lat :-27.0W Long :139.5 S Lat :-28.0E Long :141.0 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Australian Coastline
On 21 June 2010 22:12, Leon Kernan lker...@gmail.com wrote: There seems to be an unintended side effect to this statement: The maritime borders are 12nm out to sea from the coastline. That is the general case, but in Qld I think it's 12nm from the edge of the barrier reef... Bass Strait seems to have been given over to international waters according to that statement. Are you thinking about maritime borders or the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) which is 200nm from the coastline... There are some weird lines around Vic / Tas and the Bass Strait islands at the moment on zoom level 7 which i assume are linked to this converstation. If you know where they are, feel free to fix them... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers and streams
On 21 June 2010 19:43, Markus marku...@bigpond.com wrote: The data is part of the GIG Dataset - 250K scale Follow this link and choose Topography with Innamincka as an example for the keyword and press show me results. I can't comment about all datasets, but I downloaded that particular dataset in shape format and there was only shape files so it seems you are allowed to use it if you take the notice on their website into account: Unless otherwise noted, all Geoscience Australia material on this website is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia Licence. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers and streams
On 22 June 2010 05:27, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Unless otherwise noted, all Geoscience Australia material on this website is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia Licence. You will need to tag at least all ways with: source=Geoscience Australia attribution=Based on Geoscience Australia data I'd also add the main URL of the product (source:url=*), but this isn't mandatory. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Qld State Controlled Roads data
Recently David Dean asked for some data and he was given access to it with a favourable license (cc-by). This dataset only covers Qld Govt funded roads, this doesn't include local government roads. While there was additional information attached to the data, it was mostly internal references so this was removed, I also simplified all the ways as there was an excessive number of points, it appeared that raw GPS data had been used in some/many places without any kind of simplification applied. I don't know if it was due to the conversion processing or not, but many of the roads don't interconnect properly. Most roads are in segments as various different tags were applied to the sections, think like last survey dates. With that all said, the name/vector data seems very useful for both ways not already in OSM and for fixing up Landsat derived data, the vector data probably isn't that useful for places where Nearmap have coverage. For those interested in this data in OSM format, you can download it from here: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/sc_roads_qld.osm.bz2 It's approx 1.5M and if you enable the slippymap plugin with mapnik background image you can use it to see which roads are missing and which just need a few tweaks here and there. I've posted a brief page here about permission: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/Department_of_Transport_and_Main_Roads And another here about the data itself: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/Department_of_Transport_and_Main_Roads/Import ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
On 20 June 2010 17:07, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex S. m...@swavely.com wrote: Some would like to see it kept and marked historical, but deleting ways Oh? Could you elaborate? Some people would like to be able to map the 4th dimension (time)... So that historical maps could be shown, but the API would have to be updated to be able to do this by specifying start/end dates and by default only return data that is still deemed current... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
On 20 June 2010 21:19, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: It might be better to tag all the roads which are known to be good and safe for cyclists to use. Perhaps cycle=recommended might be a good tag. Black and white rarely exist in the real world, you'd need some kind of scale so routing software can choose better paths than others... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Proposal to update weather monitoring_stations using BoM data.
On 20 June 2010 14:11, {Tim} m526244+osm...@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/20/2010 11:40 AM, John Smith wrote:
If you've made the changes you were going to make, then go for it,
anyone that was going to comment would have by now.
Your timing uncanny. I just finished typing wiki entry:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Bureau_Of_Meteorology/Import
I wouldn't have bothered waiting till Monday, unless of course you
don't have time to do it till then that is...
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Re: [talk-au] Australian Timezones
On 20 June 2010 16:59, rran...@ihug.com.au rran...@ihug.com.au wrote: The TZ files installed are compiled. I looked at the Australian source file in the tzdata source. I have attached this file. It is not primary source, but I have found it to be accurate. Thanks for that... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers and streams
On 20 June 2010 21:05, Markus marku...@bigpond.com wrote: I am interested in adding some of the lakes and creeks in the national parks to OSM. Just to confirm this source to be ok to use. The data doesn't belong to ga.gov.au, they link to psu.edu and on that page it says the data is quite out of date, did you look at the rivers/streams data from data.australia.gov.au? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers and streams
On 20 June 2010 21:24, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: The data doesn't belong to ga.gov.au, they link to psu.edu and on that page it says the data is quite out of date, did you look at the rivers/streams data from data.australia.gov.au? The dataset I was thinking about only covers Qld... The good news is the license is cc-by which means it should still be compatible under the new OSM license: http://data.australia.gov.au/119 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?
Pity it's not going to be available for some time... Germany's new TanDEM-X radar satellite is scheduled to lift off from Baikonur Cosmodrome at 04:15 Berlin time on 21 June — that's 10:14 pm Eastern today (20 June). Flying in close formation with its twin satellite, TerraSAR-X, TanDEM-X will generate the most consistent and highest-resolution digital elevation map ever of the Earth — 12m = 40ft. pixel pitch. It will take three years to image all 150 million square kilometers (58 million square miles), in the process generating more than 350 TB of raw data. Here's where to go as the time approaches for live streaming. http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/20/1651227/German-Radar-Satellite-Lifts-Off-Tonight?from=rss ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] ABC national radio interview...
David Dean did a follow-up interview on ABC national radio this morning: http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2010/06/open-street-maps.html You can listen to the interview online and the interview last year: http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2009/05/make-your-own-m.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
On 20 June 2010 06:17, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: At the very least some sort of note=* explaining *why* the road is considered hazardous would be nice. There is various organisations that label tracks as various difficulty levels, maybe there is an organisation that has come up with a hazard rating system? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?
On 19 June 2010 20:04, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: The only DEM that I know about is the 9second product from Geoscience Australia - http://www.ga.gov.au/meta/ANZCW0703011541.html It does cost $100 and probably has some stringent use/distribution limitations. You want the DEM to produce a hillshade or to derive contours from? If you want contours the Geo Data 250k product (http://www.ga.gov.au/image_cache/GA8349.pdf) is downloadable. Once again not certain on the licencing arrangements. A little birdy tells me that they think the GA data may suffer similar problems to the SRTM data, in any case will have to look into the licensing, it may not be favourable even if the data isn't being uploaded to OSM. In the mean time we can play spot the unmapped islands, so far I've found several, including this one in SA waters. http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12ll=-34.643,134.793layer=0B000FTFF This island chain near Singapore: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=13ll=3.130,106.104layer=0B000FTFF And the first one I spotted was in NZ waters: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12ll=-37.290,176.258layer=0B000FTFF ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS data and new license
On 19 June 2010 22:19, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: no I don't know the licence asks for attribution but whether the new proposed new system is going to provide appropriate attribution? The new license has a requirement for attribution so I don't think that's a problem. I think cc-by is ok, but cc-by-sa most likely won't be ok as the data won't be released under the same license in future. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Tasmania imagery
Craig pointed to me to this site: http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/listmap/listmap.jsp?cookieteststate=checkllx=13.0lly=5116000.0urx=712000.0ury=5662000.0layers=268 Which was in relation to better DEM information, but they also have half decent aerial imagery for most of the state, however the copyright license says for non-commercial use only and I have no idea if you use the imagery personally to derive vector information if that could then be uploaded to OSM. I thought I'd point this site out if most people weren't aware of it, but I'll leave that up to those interested in Tasmania to figure it out the fine print. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
