Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:39, Frans Thamura wrote: >> right now 55 students what in my bootcamp are working on OSM, using >> LearnOSM material :) >> >> i will collect their username, and will learn how to monitor their >> contribution, stay tune ... >> >> any procedure to monitor? > > > No there are no good tools, and no good methods. I asked for > suggestions but I've never managed to get a good answer. > See: > http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/7077/investigating-changesets > > > I know of no tools that will give you easy summaries of what a class > room of OSM users are doing. There are tools that will tell you what > has happend between two dates. Look at osmdiff, > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmdiff > > Here is an example report > http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/diff/gen0/muenchen.htm I have to agree. The topic of change monitoring is still a big todo for OSM. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:39, Frans Thamura wrote: > right now 55 students what in my bootcamp are working on OSM, using > LearnOSM material :) > > i will collect their username, and will learn how to monitor their > contribution, stay tune ... > > any procedure to monitor? No there are no good tools, and no good methods. I asked for suggestions but I've never managed to get a good answer. See: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/7077/investigating-changesets I know of no tools that will give you easy summaries of what a class room of OSM users are doing. There are tools that will tell you what has happend between two dates. Look at osmdiff, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmdiff Here is an example report http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/diff/gen0/muenchen.htm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> + 1 . Frans could lead the community to correct all those pranks(if > done) made by the kid , provided that all kid usernames are monitored > . ok. i will work on it right now 55 students what in my bootcamp are working on OSM, using LearnOSM material :) i will collect their username, and will learn how to monitor their contribution, stay tune ... any procedure to monitor? F > > >> and there are tools that the teacher could use to >> monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated >> with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if >> you wanted to. > > Grade with edit sounds nice ;) > > Regards, > Pavithran > > > -- > pavithran sakamuri > http://look-pavi.blogspot.com > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On 7 December 2011 13:08, Kate Chapman wrote: > Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students > to map in OSM. The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by > the community + 1 . Frans could lead the community to correct all those pranks(if done) made by the kid , provided that all kid usernames are monitored . > and there are tools that the teacher could use to > monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated > with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if > you wanted to. Grade with edit sounds nice ;) Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman wrote: > Well I think there are a couple strategies. > > For example encouraging students to clean-up each others mistakes > would be a good one. You could use OWL to monitor edits in an area as > well:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OWL_(OpenStreetMap_Watch_List) > > Keep right can be used to look for mistakes as well: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_right > > Additionally I would suggest making sure students run the validator > plugin in JOSM before they upload their data. thx for the feedback will try to put all, we are working for a tutorial for this, our way of tutorial, and we also use learn osm. my experience with student every year, they will return , we call them mentor, that will do watch and review . new student usually the biggest mistake and can remove data.. and several of them, never report esp when delete an information F > > Best, > > -Kate > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: >>> >>> Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students >>> to map in OSM. The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by >>> the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to >>> monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated >>> with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if >>> you wanted to. >> >> can give me the glue? >> >> how to implement it here? >> >> F >> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> -Kate >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura wrote: > last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people > will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server then don't do it. Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Well I think there are a couple strategies. For example encouraging students to clean-up each others mistakes would be a good one. You could use OWL to monitor edits in an area as well:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OWL_(OpenStreetMap_Watch_List) Keep right can be used to look for mistakes as well: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_right Additionally I would suggest making sure students run the validator plugin in JOSM before they upload their data. Best, -Kate On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: >> >> Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students >> to map in OSM. The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by >> the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to >> monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated >> with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if >> you wanted to. > > can give me the glue? > > how to implement it here? > > F > >> >> Best, >> >> -Kate >> >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura wrote: last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . >>> >>> I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it >>> perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't >>> see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for >>> uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server >>> might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so >>> unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server >>> then don't do it. >>> >>> Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? >>> >>> -- >>> /emj >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> > Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students > to map in OSM. The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by > the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to > monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated > with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if > you wanted to. can give me the glue? how to implement it here? F > > Best, > > -Kate > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura wrote: >>> last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people >>> will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . >> >> I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it >> perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't >> see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for >> uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server >> might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so >> unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server >> then don't do it. >> >> Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? >> >> -- >> /emj >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Hi Erik, HOT has been teaching OSM all over Indonesia for the past 6 months. I can say that the uploads aren't that slow, since people are usually mapping in a small area. Loading of the OSM website though is often very slow, which in a class of new people sometimes makes it difficult just to get them accounts. Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students to map in OSM. The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to monitor who is doing what. Since there is a user account associated with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if you wanted to. Best, -Kate On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura wrote: >> last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people >> will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . > > I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it > perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't > see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for > uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server > might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so > unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server > then don't do it. > > Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? > > -- > /emj > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> > I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it > perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't > see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for > uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server > might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so > unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server > then don't do it. our server right now, just copy from OSM and generate tiles.. just it. but we will try to implement API, because we want osmosa like gmap api, any system can use and i am integrator.. so we will use it, and make our system faster esp the upload (if u access from global to our server), also quiet big.. but.. the system that we will create, will have option, using OSM for global people, or Osmosa for Indonesian people. i believe the API can give economic benefit, esp GMAP is not free anymore. sad thing, OSM API is not WFS.. NB, in middle of that with mike :) thx for the update i will ad walking paper and mapwarpper ;) wanna to make best implementation > > Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? > > -- > /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura wrote: > last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people > will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server then don't do it. Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia? -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
our server > server UP > OS Ubuntu 11.10 > HDD 1T x 2 (RAID 1) > Memory 8GB (wait the 8GB, in order) > > > mesin DELL POWEREDGE 2950 > lokasi rack 2051 -- Frans Thamura (曽志胜) Shadow Master and Lead Investor Meruvian. Integrated Hypermedia Java Solution Provider. Mobile: +628557888699 Blog: http://blogs.mervpolis.com/roller/flatburger (id) FB: http://www.facebook.com/meruvian TW: http://www.twitter.com/meruvian / @meruvian Website: http://www.meruvian.org "We grow because we share the same belief." On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Frans Thamura wrote: >> >> Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in >> Indonesia, or is it "only" a social one? > > yup, we have Indonesia Internet Exchange and this server in the heart > of the IIX.. > > i believe 15 years ago, hongkong, singapore try to make bad thing to > this country, they sell 2-4x more expensive > > so one of local ISP (indo.net) linking the ISP and create a local > Internet, and called IIX now. > > and now.. all game server, local dotcom, implement on this IIX > > and the ISP give it free to anyone here, so we have dedicated free, no > loop to global.. > > i believe got award, as the best backbone implementation in Asia > Pasific (several years ago). > > last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people > will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . > > > >> >> Has "edit local and then mass upload" really been a good model in the >> past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But >> not sure. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> > Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in > Indonesia, or is it "only" a social one? yup, we have Indonesia Internet Exchange and this server in the heart of the IIX.. i believe 15 years ago, hongkong, singapore try to make bad thing to this country, they sell 2-4x more expensive so one of local ISP (indo.net) linking the ISP and create a local Internet, and called IIX now. and now.. all game server, local dotcom, implement on this IIX and the ISP give it free to anyone here, so we have dedicated free, no loop to global.. i believe got award, as the best backbone implementation in Asia Pasific (several years ago). last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs . > > Has "edit local and then mass upload" really been a good model in the > past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But > not sure. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 22:44, Frans Thamura wrote: > my osmosa.net server is dedicated > > 8 core with 16GB data, 100MBPs bandwidth international, 1GB bandwidth > inside indonesia > > my idea right now, want to make all indonesian, which we are inside > our private internet exchange called IIX. > > and i am usually strong in education program, and interest to bring > OSM to direct education. > > so, kids will play around with OSM, and if we allow JOSM direct update > to OSM.org, i believe disaster will come, for a kids that naughty.. Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in Indonesia, or is it "only" a social one? Has "edit local and then mass upload" really been a good model in the past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But not sure. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
my osmosa.net server is dedicated 8 core with 16GB data, 100MBPs bandwidth international, 1GB bandwidth inside indonesia my idea right now, want to make all indonesian, which we are inside our private internet exchange called IIX. and i am usually strong in education program, and interest to bring OSM to direct education. so, kids will play around with OSM, and if we allow JOSM direct update to OSM.org, i believe disaster will come, for a kids that naughty.. i am new in OSM infrastructure, that why i am asking to this mailing list.. the tutorial and program, has just start , but how to create good contributor that will be another problem :) F On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Mike Dupont wrote: > I have been thinking alot about this model. > Frederik has already mentioned some of the real problems you will have > with merging data. > There is alot of work to do on this topic, we can talk about details > if you wish. If you want to donate some server resources we can talk > about hosting some programs I am working on. > mike > > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: >> hi all >> >> >> talking about contribution model and distributed environment >> >> i believe this is good for OSM, esp to make OSM load in center server >> less, esp after GMAp become commercial. >> >> people will use it and integrator will use it.. second one >> (integrator) will bring more rush. >> >> the use of API will increase. >> >> of course for pre-contribute server will be amazing, because local >> community/chapter can work with it, and submit to the main center >> after approve and validate the content. >> >> sound like new architecture in peer-to-peer world? >> >> F >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > -- > James Michael DuPont > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
I have been thinking alot about this model. Frederik has already mentioned some of the real problems you will have with merging data. There is alot of work to do on this topic, we can talk about details if you wish. If you want to donate some server resources we can talk about hosting some programs I am working on. mike On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: > hi all > > > talking about contribution model and distributed environment > > i believe this is good for OSM, esp to make OSM load in center server > less, esp after GMAp become commercial. > > people will use it and integrator will use it.. second one > (integrator) will bring more rush. > > the use of API will increase. > > of course for pre-contribute server will be amazing, because local > community/chapter can work with it, and submit to the main center > after approve and validate the content. > > sound like new architecture in peer-to-peer world? > > F > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
hi all talking about contribution model and distributed environment i believe this is good for OSM, esp to make OSM load in center server less, esp after GMAp become commercial. people will use it and integrator will use it.. second one (integrator) will bring more rush. the use of API will increase. of course for pre-contribute server will be amazing, because local community/chapter can work with it, and submit to the main center after approve and validate the content. sound like new architecture in peer-to-peer world? F ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Hi, On 12/06/2011 12:11 PM, 80n wrote: We've been taking OSM content and applying it to a separate database which also has direct contributions. This is the opposite direction to what you are contemplating, but the same principles apply. Well, only if one leaves out a lot of important detail! If one were to operate a separate "leaf" server and feed the collected edits back into OSM in the way you describe, one would at least encounter three problems: 1. The person resolving the conflicts is not the person who has made (any of) the conflicting edits. Who will do the work and will they have the necessary information to do the right thing? 2. All uploads to OSM would appear under one user ID. Therefore OSMers could not identify contributors shielded behind the leaf server which is undesirable (e.g. one could not send them messages, or block them individually if they are found to violate copyright or so). This could be solved by making the leaf server use OAuth against OSM's server but that would require some work and make your approach "import to OSM using your favourite load tool" a bit more difficiult. 3. Extra work would be required to modify the local database with the IDs assigned by the OSM server during the upload process, or else you have each new object twice - one locally created and one arrived via a diff load from OSM later. In practice, the risk of edit collisions is very small, and when they do happen it is non-destructive and easy to resolve with no special skills. In my OSM work, edit conflicts happen frequently. I guess the risk of edit conflicts increases with the amount of users. You might find there is political resistance to this idea from some OSM people, but nobody can stop you from doing it. Nobody can stop you from running your own database in the way you, 80n, do; but if someone were to run this the other way round and upload collcted edits to OSM under one and the same user account then they can, and likely would, be stopped. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On 06/12/2011 11:11, 80n wrote: 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a negative value. This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the element's version attribute is 1. Your local OSM then presumably then allocates the next available ID to the object - which I guess may be different from the ID it had in OSM? If so, what happens the next time the object is edited in OSM? Do you maintain a cross-reference between your IDs and OSM's? -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
hi all my idea about this program, because we teach contributor, and they are start from 15 years old. every of them "must" contribute to the map server, and if the map data is not ok, or they remove the data.. i believe that will be nightmare, if hundreds student do mistake. but .. i think also wasting time, if we must redo what they did www.facebook.com/meruvian > to know what will we do? F On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, 80n <80n...@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a >> negative value. This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the >> element's version attribute is 1. > > Naive question here: so the OSM copy ends up with negative numbers? > Isn't that bad? Also, in any case, you end up with different IDs in > the two databases, no? Or do you then also update the ID in the source > database to be negative as well, and then reset the id counter? > > Steve > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, 80n <80n...@gmail.com> wrote: > 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a > negative value. This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the > element's version attribute is 1. Naive question here: so the OSM copy ends up with negative numbers? Isn't that bad? Also, in any case, you end up with different IDs in the two databases, no? Or do you then also update the ID in the source database to be negative as well, and then reset the id counter? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Aun Johnsen wrote: > It is not entirely correct that it is not possible to have a > distributed editing API, for example on osmosa.net, but that would > require a heavy redesign of the database, server and API parts of OSM. > It's entirely possible. We've been doing it, for real, for several months. We've been taking OSM content and applying it to a separate database which also has direct contributions. This is the opposite direction to what you are contemplating, but the same principles apply. All you have to do is: 1) Generate minutely-diff files from your OSM instance, containing just the local edits. 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a negative value. This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the element's version attribute is 1. 3) Import to OSM using your favourite load tool. 4) Resolve any edit collisions. In practice, the risk of edit collisions is very small, and when they do happen it is non-destructive and easy to resolve with no special skills. You might find there is political resistance to this idea from some OSM people, but nobody can stop you from doing it. 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
It is not entirely correct that it is not possible to have a distributed editing API, for example on osmosa.net, but that would require a heavy redesign of the database, server and API parts of OSM. Firstly to have this setup work properly one would need a clustered database, where the database on osmosa.net to be a node of the same database as on OSM.org. That would in most cases (though I havn't researched into it) mean a redesign from postgreSQL to the clustered database. Than all API calls must be redesigned to communicate to the correct database, and significant changes in database architecture and API would mean that most editors would need a complete brushup on the way they commit data to OSM. The answer as I see it is more in the line of "not possible today, and not likely to be" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
thx ;) F On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:53 AM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > On 05/12/2011 21:35, Frans Thamura wrote: > >> i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis, > > Use Osmosis' replication features: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/Detailed_Usage_0.38#Replication_Tasks > > -- > Jonathan (Jonobennett) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On 05/12/2011 21:35, Frans Thamura wrote: > i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis, Use Osmosis' replication features: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/Detailed_Usage_0.38#Replication_Tasks -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
understand now ;) i think will keep the JOSM update to central OSM.org, and my server just copy it. i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis, and deploy and also generate zoom tile. -> we are working on it, may be wanna help me for this. F On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Mike Dupont wrote: > Frederik is right, there are no good tools to manage a distributed OSM > database, yet... > mike > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: >>> On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM database >>> >>> >>> Sorry: "no" way, not "to way". >> >> >> ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data >> >> JOSM -> OSM.org -> osmosa.net ---> is this the way right? >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > -- > James Michael DuPont > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Frederik is right, there are no good tools to manage a distributed OSM database, yet... mike On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: >> On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: >>> >>> there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM >>> database >> >> >> Sorry: "no" way, not "to way". > > > ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data > > JOSM -> OSM.org -> osmosa.net ---> is this the way right? > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Hi, On 12/05/2011 10:17 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: this idea want to make my osmosa.net as our central of update, and focus for specific country (Indonesia). and we want our work also part of OSM.org . so none will update to OSM.org, but the server will update to OSM.org why this idea cannot be done? The problem is edit conflicts. Your server will not be the exlusive edit server for Indonesia. This means someone - e.g. I - could change an object on the osm.org server and someone else - e.g. you - could change the object on the osmosa server. Later, when the osmosa server wants to upload its data to OSM.org, there will be an edit conflict, and the edit on osmosa will be lost. This can happen in normal osm.org editing as well (we both edit the same object) but in that case the second uploader gets an error message and can solve the problem - whereas in your case the person may have closed his editor already and will not be reachable for conflict detection. There are other problems as well, for example the osm.org server would accept all your edits under one user ID and it would not be possible to identify who exactly has made a change; messages from one OSM member to another could not cross the "osm<->osmosa" boundary properly, and so on. This is not something that cannot be solved but it requires a lot of thought and a lot of updates to the rails port before it can fly. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: >> >> there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM >> database > > > Sorry: "no" way, not "to way". ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data JOSM -> OSM.org -> osmosa.net ---> is this the way right? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
> This will not work. You could try to set up something where JOSM loads data > from your database but when writing, JOSM always has to use the central > server. Otherwise, if you were to accept updates on your database, there > would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM database, and > conflicts would occur where an object is modified on your database and on > OSM. > this idea want to make my osmosa.net as our central of update, and focus for specific country (Indonesia). and we want our work also part of OSM.org . so none will update to OSM.org, but the server will update to OSM.org why this idea cannot be done? F ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Hi, On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM database Sorry: "no" way, not "to way". Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
Frans, On 12/05/2011 07:00 PM, Frans Thamura wrote: now we are testing to implement API in osmosa.net, so JOSM can update direct to osmosa.net This will not work. You could try to set up something where JOSM loads data from your database but when writing, JOSM always has to use the central server. Otherwise, if you were to accept updates on your database, there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM database, and conflicts would occur where an object is modified on your database and on OSM. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
hi all we just finished deploy the indonesia only map.. http://www.osmosa.net/map.html we are working to make mirror for all countries now we are testing to implement API in osmosa.net, so JOSM can update direct to osmosa.net but... anyone can help, how to make osmosa.net contribute to openstreetmap.org is this idea ok? or we must using JSOM direct to OSM.org and copy the modification to osmosa.net -- Frans Thamura (曽志胜) Chief of Advisory Meruvian. Integrated Hypermedia Java Solution Provider. Mobile: +628557888699 Blog: http://blogs.mervpolis.com/roller/flatburger (id) FB: http://www.facebook.com/meruvian TW: http://www.twitter.com/meruvian / @meruvian Website: http://www.meruvian.org "We grow because we share the same belief." ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
