date:20120307

Am 6. März 2012 17:52 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
 On 03/06/2012 02:36 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Personally, I don't think that *verifying* their data against OSM data
 (in the sense of flagging potential problems, as long as they don't copy
 our data outright) would be a valid use of our data that would not
 create a derived database. (The database that contains the results of
 the analysis might be derived and have to released.)


 Oops. Tripped over my own negative here. I wanted to say: As long as they
 just compare stuff and verify, I think it's ok and they won't be affected by
 viral ODbL-ness.


Really? So also this sentence was not intended and you mean the
opposite: (The database that contains the results of
the analysis might be derived and have to released.)? Isn't this a
kind of merge: just compare and verify (above there was also
flagging)?

cheers,
Martin

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Nick Whitelegg

I agree. Another reason not to is that the looming deadline is actually 
motivating people to stop waiting for CT-undecideds to respond and do 
remapping - I know it's motivating me and other people I've talked to. 
Take away the deadline and you demotivate remappers, while also putting 
off the contribution from the wait-and-sees as Frederik says.

I suspect that we'll see the highest rates of remapping work in the few 
weeks immediately before and after the deadline. For that, we need the 
deadline.

I'm tending to agree now. TBH I'm not really for the licence change given the 
effect on the data... but given it's going to happen,
I'd prefer to get it all over with.

For one thing I know I personally will be more motivated to remap if gaping 
holes appear, than I might be presently... though I have done
a bit in the last couple of weeks.

Nick


___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski

Hi,

On 7 March 2012 09:16, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 If there really are people actively remapping and our rushing through the
 license change would sabotage their work and alienate them then yes, we
 should postpone for a month or two. Sadly, here in Germany many people are
 of the opposite opinion and they say let's wait until after the license
 change, and then see what's missing and fix it. I would much prefer people
 to remap now but it seems that remapping is not for everyone.

I was wondering why people think that.  Even trying to put myself in
place of someone who thinks the license change is the best thing since
sliced bread I still can't see the reasons for remapping.  First of
all it costs more work than adding data from scratch and it takes
people's time away from doing actual mapping -- creating new data.  So
it's not a zero net gain operation -- i.e. we lose new contributions,
but we get to keep the same amount of work which would have been
deleted.  Rather, after the potential switch-over we will have less
data than if we kept on doing on what we always did.

Secondly mapping after the incompatible (with the LWG's risky
definition of compatibility) data has been removed by a non-person,
should be *much* preferred for the clean-ness of IP rights.  Even if
done correctly, the remapping keeps some information from the old
non-kosher data (like the fact that something worthy of featuring was
here).  But it's hard for a human to do correctly, most of the times
much more information is be copied over consciously or not.  The usual
thinking process will be what is the shortest way for me to get that
visualisation tool, considering the rules it uses, to show this object
in a lower wavelength colour?  It has only a little to do with
removing unwanted IP.  As an owner of a declined account I get
messages from people who observe those things.  It looks like after
the change, which was supposed to make OSM's legal situation cleaner,
I think it's safer for a Random Big Company to perhaps use wikimapia.

Cheers

 The current graphs - http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html - point
 steadily downwards but if you extrapolate you'll see that they are unlikely
 to reach zero before autumn.


 Is there any reason not
 to?


 I think that a number of people on the OSMF board - Steve and Mikel at least
 because I've spoken to them in a management team conference call about a
 month ago, but likely others too - are of the opinion that OSMF must be seen
 by the world to be reliable and be in charge; they fear that if OSMF should
 now renege on the 1st April promise they've made, then people might come
 to the conclusion that OSMF cannot be trusted. However they see a
 trustworthy OSMF as a necessary basis for dealing with the business
 community, and acquiring funding, data, or other support from them.

 In the aforementioned management team telephone conference I said, You
 can't tell me that April 1st is success, and April 2nd is failure and was
 told that the board thinks different. (This is from memory.)

 (In my eyes, it is a very bad idea for OSMF board to commit themselves to
 something which is not under their control; and we must definitely avoid
 this kind of ambitious goal-setting in the future. OSMF can set goals for
 OSMF, but OSMF must not set goals for OSM. But that's a discussion we can,
 and should, have after the license change is through.)

 This doesn't mean that a postponement cannot happen; certainly board won't
 simply shut down OSM on April 1st until the bot run is complete just to be
 able to say that they met their target. But it does mean that a postponement
 would need really solid reasons which would allow those on the board who
 committed themselves to the 1st April deadline to save face.

 If we wait another month then 5% more data can be remapped is not a solid
 reason, and neither is I'm sure Foursquare would be unhappy to lose a few
 roads in the US. These reasons are especially bad because they an be
 repeated month after month and thus could make the process drag on
 endlessly.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33


 ___
 legal-talk mailing list
 legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Chris Hill


On 07/03/12 15:45, andrzej zaborowski wrote:

I was wondering why people think that.  Even trying to put myself in
place of someone who thinks the license change is the best thing since
sliced bread I still can't see the reasons for remapping.  First of
all it costs more work than adding data from scratch and it takes
people's time away from doing actual mapping -- creating new data.  So
it's not a zero net gain operation -- i.e. we lose new contributions,
but we get to keep the same amount of work which would have been
deleted.  Rather, after the potential switch-over we will have less
data than if we kept on doing on what we always did.
I have been examining the data marked as something that will be lost in 
an area fairly close to me. Much of this was created many years ago and 
the original editor has not responded to attempts to contact them.


Much of this is based on poor-quality aerial imagery. Replacing it with 
a survey or even more recent imagery creates much higher quality data, 
not least better geometry. I have gone on to improve other work 
sometimes by adding extra detail for example roundabout flares, road 
names (from survey or other open sources) and adding otherwise missing 
roads, tracks etc.


Like-for-like replacement might not be useful, but much of this is a 
positive improvement and worthwhile in its own right. I might not have 
looked at some of these areas without the process of licence change. I 
will now be reviewing the whole area (northern Lincolnshire, UK) over 
the next few months and I expect to find lots of potential improvements, 
just like anywhere else.


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions from a Journalist

Freimut - I'm happy to talk to your journalist. As you might know, my day
job is as a magazine editor (our magazine celebrates its 40th anniversary
this year) and therefore, you could say, I'm quite accustomed to this kind
of work. Maybe you might be kind enough to forward my details to this
journalist?

Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-Questions-from-a-Journalist-tp5545015p5545054.html
Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski

On 7 March 2012 16:57, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
 On 07/03/12 15:45, andrzej zaborowski wrote:

 I was wondering why people think that.  Even trying to put myself in
 place of someone who thinks the license change is the best thing since
 sliced bread I still can't see the reasons for remapping.  First of
 all it costs more work than adding data from scratch and it takes
 people's time away from doing actual mapping -- creating new data.  So
 it's not a zero net gain operation -- i.e. we lose new contributions,
 but we get to keep the same amount of work which would have been
 deleted.  Rather, after the potential switch-over we will have less
 data than if we kept on doing on what we always did.

 I have been examining the data marked as something that will be lost in an
 area fairly close to me. Much of this was created many years ago and the
 original editor has not responded to attempts to contact them.

 Much of this is based on poor-quality aerial imagery. Replacing it with a
 survey or even more recent imagery creates much higher quality data, not
 least better geometry. I have gone on to improve other work sometimes by
 adding extra detail for example roundabout flares, road names (from survey
 or other open sources) and adding otherwise missing roads, tracks etc.

 Like-for-like replacement might not be useful, but much of this is a
 positive improvement and worthwhile in its own right. I might not have
 looked at some of these areas without the process of licence change. I will
 now be reviewing the whole area (northern Lincolnshire, UK) over the next
 few months and I expect to find lots of potential improvements, just like
 anywhere else.

Those are useful improvements, I'm not saying they aren't.  But you
did have to manually delete the existing data, something that is
expected to be done by a bot anyway.  You may have spent as little as
1% of the mapping time on it, but it is still a slight overhead.
Likely it was higher if you had to investigate the situation, install
an editor plugin and so on.

So if those deletions were done automatically you could have added
those same details and a hypothetical 0.01 more.  Assuming that there
are other things to add to OSM (and I've not yet been to a place where
there weren't, maybe except one neighbourhood in Dublin), remapping
before the cut-off date can at best have a close to zero negative
result.

Cheers

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Feedback requested ... OSM Poland data

2012-03-07 Per discussione Erik Johansson

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:55, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:
 - as an OSM community member, are you happy for the OSMF to make such a
 statement?

I think OSMF should give UMP concession to use OSM data in their maps
of Poland with their current license, like this:

The OSMF acknowledges the kind help of UMP project and its members in
creating the OSM map of Poland. The OSMF acknowledges that the UMP
project is similar in spirit; providing geodata that is free and open.
Provided that UMP continues to publish its data under CC-BY-SA

I only see negative consequences with saying anything more than that.

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions from a Journalist

2012-03-07 Per discussione Frederik Ramm


Hi,

On 03/07/2012 07:05 PM, fk270...@fantasymail.de wrote:

1. Does the license change include the creation of a new experimental
planetfile just for testing purposes or the final destruction of
data?


If your journalist opened with that question I would probably stop 
talking to him because his use of the word destruction already shows 
that even though he knows nothing about the license change, he has 
already made up his mind about what he wants to write!


The other questions betray considerable misunderstanding, and I would 
second RichardF's suggestion for your journalist to contact RichardF 
directly.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Ian Sergeant

Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote on 08/03/2012 10:11:14 AM:

 So forgive me if I cannot see any test case in the Foursquare issue,
 and I would be surprised if anyone else did! Plus, as I and others have
 said, they're grown-ups and they must have been aware of the looming
change.

This isn't about Foursquare the company.  The Foursquare community is large
and all about geography.  (By comparison, geography is incidental to the
White House, and German Courts).

This is about bad news in the hands of the most connected of people.  These
are people who if they hate it will tweet it, facebook it, blog it, and
re-post it.   This will be the first contact with OSM for millions, and the
first time many millions more hear about it.  It really is in the interest
of our project that the experience for that many people be as positive as
we can practically achieve.

Secondly, given it now looks like the act can be done live, I see no harm
in working with the local communities to progressively clean the database
in areas where at least the major linking roads are in place first, without
losing the deadline or the imperative.

Maybe we achieve this by having a timetable that starts with the most
complete areas and works down the list, thereby giving a month or so
extension to those countries at the bottom?  That way, we don't lose the
deadline, we can go easy on the disc heads, and still grant some sort of
extension to those who have more work to do?

Ian.
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com wrote:
 This is about bad news in the hands of the most connected of people.  These
 are people who if they hate it will tweet it, facebook it, blog it, and
 re-post it.   This will be the first contact with OSM for millions, and the
 first time many millions more hear about it.  It really is in the interest
 of our project that the experience for that many people be as positive as we
 can practically achieve.

Well said.

 Maybe we achieve this by having a timetable that starts with the most
 complete areas and works down the list, thereby giving a month or so
 extension to those countries at the bottom?  That way, we don't lose the
 deadline, we can go easy on the disc heads, and still grant some sort of
 extension to those who have more work to do?

If this is possible, this would be great. I would immediately request
an extension of 3 months for Australian data. Our situation is, as
noted, amongst the worst: much of the major core data was contributed
by very active mappers who eventually declined the CTs, and left the
community. So not only do we have a bigger hole than most communities,
but we have less people to repair the hole.

Steve

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Nick Hocking

The presence of non compliant data in our database can only harm
the community and thereby the project.

The longer it stays there the more harm is being done to the
community/project.

We should be trying to minimise the damage to OSM and the only way
to do this is to.

Remap madly until April 1st then map madly after that to fill in any
important holes. Once this is done then we can concentrate on
mapping new areas and adding more value to our current dataset.
For these reasons, slipping the April 1st deadline would result
in more damage to the project than adhereing to it.

PS - It's been well understood that in Australia, remapping all the
decliner edits (both traced imported and surveyed) will take a
couple of years. I don't understand why some people are  now
starting to panic.  Maybe it's just that time of month again where
we have to rehash the licence debate for the n+1th time.

Nick
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions from a Journalist

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 If your journalist opened with that question I would probably stop talking
 to him because his use of the word destruction already shows that even
 though he knows nothing about the license change, he has already made up his
 mind about what he wants to write!

Note to community: please don't let Frederik ever talk to journalists...

:p

Steve

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Ian Sergeant

On 8 March 2012 13:50, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote:

 The presence of non compliant data in our database can only harm
 the community and thereby the project.

...

I don't understand why some people are  now
 starting to panic.  Maybe it's just that time of month again where
 we have to rehash the licence debate for the n+1th time.


Please, lets not confuse the timing issue with the licence debate.
Different issues entirely.   I appreciate that every time this discussion
is raised there are the naysayers that jump in.  Let's just apply the
appropriate filter and focus on the issue at hand.

It has always been a matter of finding the correct balance between the
damage being done to the community by having non-compliant data, and the
damage done to our data consumers, who we also owe a duty to.   If we
weren't trying to find this balance, we could have just gone ahead and
removed the data in April last year.   In some parts of the map, I'm
confident that balance has been reached.  I'm keener than anyone to see any
end to the red and green lines, and go back to normal mapping.

However, if the transition happened today in Sydney,  we would lose every
freeway, every trunk road, every primary road, the harbour crossings, the
foreshore.  All the rivers.  We'll lose at least 50 entire suburbs to the
very last street and their place names.  We'll lose railways, stations,
ferry wharfs and routes.  We'll lose large chunks of the regional cycle
networks.  This dataset will be completely, utterly, and entirely unusable
by anyone for any purpose.

Progress in remapping is being made.  It is purposeful and effective, but
takes time.

We need the right balance to set the timing, and from my perspective I just
can't see how we can reach that point in this area by April 1 -   unless
several additional committed volunteers join the effort full time in the
next week.  We've tried our best to do it in time, but we've not
succeeded.  There needs to be a different timing or a different approach.

I defy anyone to run OSM Inspector over the Sydney area and say we have the
right timing to go now.

I therefore repeat my suggestion that we adopt a phased approach over a
couple of months, working from the most complete areas to the least.  There
are other risk-management benefits to this approach beyond giving an
extension to the less well developed areas.  Still a deadline, still an
imperative, just the extra time we need with the tools that we now have to
make sure that a very basic usable dataset exists for our consumers on the
transition day.

Ian.
P.S. Anybody who has finished mapping in their area, and is twiddling their
thumbs waiting for the transition, we have many tens of thousands of
kilometres of rivers, lakes, coastline, long distance railways, etc in
Australia that are amenable to aerial remapping!  Come visit!
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione Simon Poole


There will probably be a heads up immediately before work on the DB starts.

If you are concerned about the effects of the change, it would be best
to simply stop consuming the diffs at that point in time and reimport
the planet after the changeover, when you feel that is appropriate
(note: that at least for a clean change, you should take a reimport in
to account anyway).

There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching
out to data consumers and keeping them informed (except the couple of
large ones that we naturally know about).

If you are such a data consumer I would suggest at least subscribing to
the announce mailing list.

Simon

Am 07.03.2012 08:40, schrieb Stephan Knauss:
 On 07.03.2012 05:23, Steve Bennett wrote:
 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the
 self-imposed deadline of April 1

 Would it be even more clever for map tile providers like mapquest so
 simply stop updates for a week (or probably serve static tiles as of
 march 31) until the ODbL data reached a level the tile users are happy
 with?

 It is the decision of tile providers how fast they update...

 Stephan

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione Toby Murray

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 If this actually happens, it will be by far the stupidest thing OSM
 has ever done. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of that
 phrase about database rebuilding?

 Since I'm getting some off-list snark about this, let me make clear:

 1) I'm not arguing against the licence change
 2) I am participating in remapping
 3) I'm questioning deleting large amounts of data from our map on the
 self-imposed deadline of April 1

Yeah... the timing of this is shaping up to be very unfortunate. We've
had several high profile sites switch to using OSM since the beginning
of the year and all the PR that came along with that has put a bright
light on the project.

On the other hand, this license change has been ongoing since before I
joined the project and drawing it out even longer is going to be
painful too...

At least there is steady improvement:
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html

Toby

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

Steve Bennett wrote:
 I can't speak for other countries, but in my city (Melbourne,
 population 4 million, second biggest in Australia), parts of 
 the largest freeway, right near the centre of town, are currently 
 on the chopping board. That's a lot worse than any other 
 everyday missing roads, holes etc.

Yup. Australia and Poland are much, much worse affected than any other
country. There are local circumstances which you know already.

That isn't at all representative of the wider impact. In the UK the main
effect is going to be that a few towns (such as Weybridge) drop down, for a
couple of months, to the quality level of less well-mapped towns (such as
Banbury or Rochdale) - which is a shame but not cataclysmic. Our principal
road network will not be affected.

Britain is roughly representative of the worldwide situation (odbl.poole.ch
reports 97.6% highways 'safe' in the UK, 97.5% worldwide). Given that we
still have over three weeks to go; that the pace of remapping is picking up;
and that there are no doubt acceptances still to come, the picture outside
Australia and Poland is pretty optimistic.

Foursquare are clearly pretty smart people - you don't get to be a $600m
business otherwise ;) . I am sure they, and others, did at least a trivial
level of research before switching to OSM. If they, or any other tile users,
are concerned about the licence change, there are several options open to
them: stop taking updates for a week or two, perhaps, or continue to serve
pre-changeover tiles for Australia (there's no licensing reason not to)
until the datasets approach parity. AIUI, and I stand to be corrected,
Foursquare's tiles are actually prerendered rather than being rendered on
demand, so this is particularly easy for them.

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/FourSquare-and-OSM-tp5531933p5543677.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik slower than usual?

2012-03-07 Per discussione John Sturdy

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is it just me, or are there more timeout magnifying glasses than usual?

I've been getting that too.

__John

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik slower than usual?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Peteris Krisjanis

T , 2012-03-07 10:49 +, John Sturdy rakstīja:
 On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
  Is it just me, or are there more timeout magnifying glasses than usual?
 
 I've been getting that too.
 

I'm getting it from last five days.

Peter.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik slower than usual?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Pieren

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm getting it from last five days.

Perhaps just a coincidence but goeDNS tile caching has been introduced recently:
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/03/05/osmf-hardware-update/

Pieren

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Smrender released into the wild

2012-03-07 Per discussione Bernhard R. Fischer

Smrender is a rule-based renderer for OSM data. The rule set is very flexible 
and it supports dynamic loading and linking...

http://www.cypherpunk.at/2012/03/07/smrender-released-into-the-wild/


Best regards,
Bernhard


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione Joseph Reeves

An interesting article on the value (or issues) of FourSquare
generated spatial data:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/06/spatial_junk/

Joseph




On 5 March 2012 11:22, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 In their blog they made some cryptic comments about helping OSM with data...
 No idea what they actually meant though, could just be helping direct users
 to OSM, could be employing people to map stuff... who knows.

 Bob

 if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; }


 On 5 Mar 2012, at 11:17, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 I think they're just using tiles for mapping background on their
 (not-mobile) website. No api, no POIs, no data sharing, just raster
 images. Having said that, I can't remember reading anything proper
 about this and appear to have learnt it all through osmosis.

 Cheers, Joseph



 On 5 March 2012 10:59, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 mmm i want to know deeply about POI inside 4SQ and OSM, will 4SQ share with

 OSM database for POI?


 F



 On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:


 Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users

 type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information

 there.


 Janko


 ___

 talk mailing list

 talk@openstreetmap.org

 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




 ___

 talk mailing list

 talk@openstreetmap.org

 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Smrender released into the wild

2012-03-07 Per discussione MERIGHI Marcus

b...@abenteuerland.at (Bernhard R. Fischer), 2012.03.07 (Wed) 14:01 (CET):
 Smrender is a rule-based renderer for OSM data. The rule set is very flexible 
 and it supports dynamic loading and linking...
 http://www.cypherpunk.at/2012/03/07/smrender-released-into-the-wild/

(replying to just one list)

attached diff makes it compile on OpenBSD -current. 

--- Makefile.0  Wed Mar  7 12:14:47 2012
+++ MakefileWed Mar  7 18:14:39 2012
@@ -16,8 +16,8 @@
 # */
 
 CC = gcc
-CFLAGS = -O2 -g -Wall -D_GNU_SOURCE -I/usr/local/include
-LDFLAGS= -L/usr/local/lib -lm -lgd -Wl,-export-dynamic
+CFLAGS = -O2 -g -Wall -D_GNU_SOURCE -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include
+LDFLAGS= -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lm -lgd -Wl,-export-dynamic
 VER = smrender-r$(shell svnversion | tr -d M)
 
 all: smrender libsmfilter.so
@@ -58,11 +58,11 @@
 smfunc.o: smfunc.c
 
 libsmfilter.so:
-   make -C libsmfilter
+   gmake -C libsmfilter
ln -s libsmfilter/libsmfilter.so
 
 clean:
-   make -C libsmfilter clean
+   gmake -C libsmfilter clean
rm -f *.o smrender libsmfilter.so
 
 dist: smrender libsmfilter.so
--- Makefile.0  Wed Mar  7 12:14:47 2012
+++ MakefileWed Mar  7 18:14:39 2012
@@ -16,8 +16,8 @@
 # */
 
 CC = gcc
-CFLAGS = -O2 -g -Wall -D_GNU_SOURCE -I/usr/local/include
-LDFLAGS= -L/usr/local/lib -lm -lgd -Wl,-export-dynamic
+CFLAGS = -O2 -g -Wall -D_GNU_SOURCE -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include
+LDFLAGS= -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lm -lgd -Wl,-export-dynamic
 VER = smrender-r$(shell svnversion | tr -d M)
 
 all: smrender libsmfilter.so
@@ -58,11 +58,11 @@
 smfunc.o: smfunc.c
 
 libsmfilter.so:
-   make -C libsmfilter
+   gmake -C libsmfilter
ln -s libsmfilter/libsmfilter.so
 
 clean:
-   make -C libsmfilter clean
+   gmake -C libsmfilter clean
rm -f *.o smrender libsmfilter.so
 
 dist: smrender libsmfilter.so
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-legal-talk] Questions from a Journalist

2012-03-07 Per discussione FK270673

 Could someone explain exactly what will be happening on April 1? 

Currently, the license change procedure is just known by a few regular 
mailing-list readers, not even by many mappers and obviously not by the broad 
public as a simple google research reveals.

However, there is a journalist who has seen the BADMAP and said: Wow, that's a 
very interesting story: A community that secretly destroys much of is own data 
suddenly on April 1st! As no media has published anything about the license 
change until now, he would be the first one to investigate this story. [1]

However, it would take him about one week to write this article and he would 
like to ask some questions before writing his article:

1. Does the license change include the creation of a new experimental 
planetfile just for testing purposes or the final destruction of data? 

2. Is the BADMAP / CLEANMAP a reliable source for the areas that are deleted 
after April 1st? Or is it just an experimental tool for visualizing areas that 
need to be remapped during months before the license change? 

3. Is there any navigation website that will prove the detrimental effects of 
license change after April 1st? Maybe even a BADNAVIGATION website?

4. Is April 1st a fixed date secretly decided by the board or will it be 
subject to a public decision of all mappers?

5. Why didn't OSMF publish a comprehensive press release until now, just 20 
days before the license change? Is it an internal communication failure or a 
secret conspiration to surprise the broad public on April 1st?

6. Does OSMF have any timetable to publish a comprehensive press release within 
the next few months? Is OSMF going to publish its press release before or AFTER 
the license change OR the publication of this article, whatever comes first? 
Does OSMF intend to translate its press releases into foreign languages?

7. Do active mappers get a copy of OSMF's press releases or do they get their 
information by the media? 

8. Are you going to answer the messages sent by decliners as mentioned in the 
minutes?

9. How big is the probability that an agreement with UMP will be signed before 
April 1st? Otherwise he would need to take screenshots from other cities - 
Bangkok, Santo Domingo, Sydney.

10. Who is the man who is going to destroy almost 2 million ways? Is there a 
photo of him available?

11. Who is willing to give a public statement for / against the sudden license 
change on April 1st? Preferably with photo or video statement?

12. Is it possible to quote statements from this mailing-list?

13. Is there anybody willing to start a lawsuit on disputed issues, e.g. on 
split ways?

14. Who is going to inform the survivors of deceased mappers? Does OSMF itself 
contact them or do they want a journalist to inform them?

15. Is the low number of explicitly clean objects a result of failed 
communication to active mappers or rather a boycott by the active mapping 
community?

16. Why did only 20,000 mappers reacted to OSMF messages whereas more than 
40,000 mappers have gradually accepted or just reacted to personal messages 
from other mappers?

17. Would any of the active board members resign if many thousand protest mails 
arrived just before or just AFTER April 1st?
 
Personally, I didn't want to answer these questions because a wrong answer 
would destroy OSM's reputation forever. Board members have the option to resign 
after a wave of protest, but active mappers would do hard to repair destroyed 
trust caused by tremendous data deletion.

BTW, he is also very interested in quoting insults and threats, either from 
public or from personal messages.

Cheers
FK270673

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media
-- 
NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone!  

Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

Replying to a few messages at once here:

Toby Murray:
 On the other hand, this license change has been ongoing since before I
 joined the project and drawing it out even longer is going to be
 painful too...

IMHO, the pain is over and done with. The decision is made, and the
decliners have, by and large, moved on. So we're back into the state
of moving forward productively. Moving that deadline is not delaying
the inevitable, it's reducing the impact of the not-inevitable.

 At least there is steady improvement:
 http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html

Excellent. Data. The slope of the graph looks fairly constant. It's
easy to see that the data won't be anything like ready in two weeks.
Maybe 20 weeks.

Richard Fairhurst:
I am sure they [foursquare], and others, did at least a trivial
level of research before switching to OSM. If they, or any other tile users,
are concerned about the licence change, there are several options open to
them:

Yeah. I don't know how MapBox works exactly, but I emailed MapBox and
their response was they actually still haven't decided what to do
about the licence change, and are keeping their options open.

Simon Poole:
There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching
out to data consumers and keeping them informed

I was surprised that I couldn't find anything much about the April 1
cutover on osmfoundation.org. Certainly no recent announcements at
all. wiki.openstreetmap.org makes no mention of it at all, apart from
the banner link to osmfoundation.

So, updating the blog would be a good start.

Steve

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 1. Any timing is terrible, so why not do it now.

Well, no. A cutover that loses 5% of data is clearly worse than a
cutover that loses 4% of data, and so on.

 2. We have no obligations to Foursquare; they have made a business decision
 in the full knowledge about the upcoming license change.

0_0

 3. If they, or their tile provider, MapBox, don't like what they see after
 the license change, they may choose to remain with the last CC-BY-SA data
 set for however long they want.

That mitigates the damage, certainly. But clearly not what these
companies expected when they signed up. We're ditching Google for an
open source provider that gets regular up...well, actually no, they're
frozen for a few months. But maybe one day we'll be able to get more
updates again.


 If there really are people actively remapping and our rushing through the
 license change would sabotage their work and alienate them then yes, we
 should postpone for a month or two. Sadly, here in Germany many people are
 of the opposite opinion and they say let's wait until after the license
 change, and then see what's missing and fix it. I would much prefer people
 to remap now but it seems that remapping is not for everyone.

There's definitely truth to that. I was the same until Potlatch2
finally started showing the licence situation properly for my area.
So, yes, remapping work will certainly accelerate after the cutover.

 I think that a number of people on the OSMF board - Steve and Mikel at least
 because I've spoken to them in a management team conference call about a
 month ago, but likely others too - are of the opinion that OSMF must be seen
 by the world to be reliable and be in charge; they fear that if OSMF should
 now renege on the 1st April promise they've made, then people might come
 to the conclusion that OSMF cannot be trusted. However they see a
 trustworthy OSMF as a necessary basis for dealing with the business
 community, and acquiring funding, data, or other support from them.

Very interesting. Quite remarkable in fact. To the extent that anyone
outside OSM has any opinion of OSMF at all, I would have thought that
making responsible decisions would be valued more highly than sticking
to bad ones in the face of new information.

 If we wait another month then 5% more data can be remapped is not a solid
 reason, and neither is I'm sure Foursquare would be unhappy to lose a few
 roads in the US. These reasons are especially bad because they an be
 repeated month after month and thus could make the process drag on
 endlessly.

To elaborate on the Foursquare argument: I'm suggesting that this is
a major test case of OSM data in prime time. No, I don't care much
about what happens to Foursquare. But if Foursquare's decision to use
OSM data turns out horribly, then it will stick around in the public
consciousness. Openstreetmap? Ha...remember what happened to
Foursquare?

Steve

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione yvecai


Le 07/03/2012 22:38, Steve Bennett a écrit :

Simon Poole:


There is one issue currently and that is that we have no way of reaching
out to data consumers and keeping them informed

I was surprised that I couldn't find anything much about the April 1
cutover on osmfoundation.org. Certainly no recent announcements at
all. wiki.openstreetmap.org makes no mention of it at all, apart from
the banner link to osmfoundation.

So, updating the blog would be a good start.


A banner on www.openstreetmap.org and the wiki would be a good second step !

Yves

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions from a Journalist

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 5:05 AM,  fk270...@fantasymail.de wrote:
 However, there is a journalist who has seen the BADMAP and said:

I was a bit confused by this email - are you talking about a
hypothetical journalist, or has this actually happened?

Steve

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

2012-03-07 Per discussione Graham Jones

Hi All,
Thank you to those who have suggested ideas for GSoC projects on the ideas
wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012.

I would encourage everyone to have a look at the ideas and comment on them
so that we can develop them to make it easier for potential students to
understand what is involved, and add any other suggestions too - maybe use
the discussion wiki page if the comment is more than a simple one line one,
or discuss it on this, or the dev mailing list if more significant?

There are a couple that are to do with HTML renderers.   We actually had a
previous GSoC project that made a lot of good progress on this a couple of
years ago (https://github.com/mdaines/simple-map-editor).   This is one
that I feel bad about because I have not taken it on after GSoC (I always
intended to incorporate it into one of my 'speciality' maps of historic
features etc...), but I think it has all of the basics of a simple editor
there (including Oauth authentication), so there is scope to have a nice
project to develop the user interface to turn it into a finished product.
It would be good to expand on the proposals there to clarify that this is
to build on an existing project, not start from scratch, and to help
identify the scope of the project (ie is it going to allow editing of
geometry or just adding nodes and editing tags on other features?).

The ideas list is taking shape nicely, so I have submitted a draft
application on behalf of OSM, which points to the ideas page, but there is
still time to work on the ideas before the Google (and if we
are successful, potential students) start to look at it.

Please let me know if you are interested in acting as a mentor, and in
helping to choose which student applications are successful if OSM is
selected to participate this year - I can provide more details of what is
involved.

Regards


Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] What happens on April 1?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Frederik Ramm


Hi,

On 03/07/2012 10:52 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:

To elaborate on the Foursquare argument: I'm suggesting that this is
a major test case of OSM data in prime time.


Personally, Foursquare means very little to me; I haven't ever used 
them, don't have an account, none of my friends use it and I have never 
heard any discussion about Foursquare in the German OSM community. 
Foursquare may be prime time for other people but for me it is very 
much irrelevant. I perceived the Foursquare switch as minor news.


For me, those that adopted OSM much earlier were much more significant. 
When the German highest court put a static map of OSM on their how to 
reach us page, or when the White House started using OSM maps, that was 
big news - and it was at a time when Google was still free of charge, 
and when our map quality was much less than it will be after the license 
change.


So forgive me if I cannot see any test case in the Foursquare issue, 
and I would be surprised if anyone else did! Plus, as I and others have 
said, they're grown-ups and they must have been aware of the looming change.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

Spod wrote:
 http://512pixels.net/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html (thanks Dair!) will show you the tiles
they're using.

Seems to be TIGER in the States but OSM in lots of other places...

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iPhoto-for-iOS-Not-Using-Google-Maps-tp5546061p5546067.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski

On 8 March 2012 01:06, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 Spod wrote:
 http://512pixels.net/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

 http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html (thanks Dair!) will show you the tiles
 they're using.

 Seems to be TIGER in the States but OSM in lots of other places...

Great :) -- Madrid is rendered with a name worthy of a map prank,
although it would fit loc_name too.  (The edits history for the
relevant node doesn't show it ever being in OSM though)

Cheers

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
 Seems to be TIGER in the States but OSM in lots of other places...

...and the consensus is that the data is from some time late March/early
April 2010. Yes, really.

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iPhoto-for-iOS-Not-Using-Google-Maps-tp5546061p5546160.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione Mike N


On 3/7/2012 7:50 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

...and the consensus is that the data is from some time late March/early
April 2010. Yes, really.


  With an update rate of at least 2 years, I don't expect they'll see a 
problem with temporary license data deletion.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega

On Jueves, 8 de Marzo de 2012 01:06:02 Richard Fairhurst escribió:
 Spod wrote:
  http://512pixels.net/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/
 
 http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html (thanks Dair!) will show you the tiles
 they're using.

I've got a transparent comparison here:

http://ivan.sanchezortega.es/leaflet-apple.php

Looks like they're using a old (pre-2011) planet dump for the data.

-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es i...@geonerd.org

http://ivan.sanchezortega.es
Proudly running Debian Linux with 3.2.0-1-amd64 kernel, KDE , and PHP 5.3.9-1 
generating this signature.
Uptime: 02:01:41 up  4:31,  5 users,  load average: 0,25, 0,20, 0,16

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega

On Jueves, 8 de Marzo de 2012 01:41:22 andrzej zaborowski escribió:
 Great :) -- Madrid is rendered with a name worthy of a map prank,
 although it would fit loc_name too.

I'm guessing that's an old toponym, now deleted from OSM. But we Madrileños 
refer to our city as that sometimes :-)


-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es i...@geonerd.org

http://ivan.sanchezortega.es
MSN:i...@void.sanchezortega.es
Jabber:ivansanc...@jabber.org ; ivansanc...@kdetalk.net
IRC: ivansanchez @ OFTC  freenode

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps


Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:

Looks like they're using a old (pre-2011) planet dump for the data.


Yep, we've now pinned it down to 1st-7th April 2010.

cheers
Richard


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione Toby Murray

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:

 Looks like they're using a old (pre-2011) planet dump for the data.


 Yep, we've now pinned it down to 1st-7th April 2010.

Here in the US I'm pretty sure they are using NHD data for water
features. It definitely isn't OSM. Any similarity to OSM in that case
probably means that patch of NHD was imported into OSM as well. The
roads around here are almost certainly TIGER. I see some of the
same... special ... features that I have long since fixed in OSM.
Hard to say if it's TIGER-OSM-Apple or straight TIGER-Apple though
since I didn't make my first edit until April 11th, 2010. I don't
remember a gaping hole in this intersection though:
http://ivan.sanchezortega.es/leaflet-apple.php?lat=39.193149972448325lon=-96.64252281188965z=14
Might just be an odd rendering artifact.

Toby

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione maning sambale

I confirm that Apple is using OSM in the Philippines.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 Spod wrote:
 http://512pixels.net/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

 http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html (thanks Dair!) will show you the tiles
 they're using.

 Seems to be TIGER in the States but OSM in lots of other places...

 cheers
 Richard



 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iPhoto-for-iOS-Not-Using-Google-Maps-tp5546061p5546067.html
 Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



-- 
cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
--

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

2012-03-07 Per discussione Simone Cortesi

As far as I can see,
they are using OSM in Italy too:
http://ivan.sanchezortega.es/leaflet-apple.php?lat=45.18082685754924lon=9.217529296875z=13


On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 05:10, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 I confirm that Apple is using OSM in the Philippines.

 On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net 
 wrote:
 Spod wrote:
 http://512pixels.net/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

 http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html (thanks Dair!) will show you the tiles
 they're using.

 Seems to be TIGER in the States but OSM in lots of other places...

 cheers
 Richard



 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iPhoto-for-iOS-Not-Using-Google-Maps-tp5546061p5546067.html
 Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



 --
 cheers,
 maning
 --
 Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
 wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
 blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
 --

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



-- 
-S

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk-nl] Fwd: Commerciëel gebruik BAG gegevens

2012-03-07 Per discussione Martijn van Exel

Ter informatie:

-- Forwarded message --
From: b...@kadaster.nl
Date: 2012/3/7
Subject: Commerciëel gebruik BAG gegevens
To: b...@kadaster.nl

**

*Geachte BAG afnemer,*

*Bij uw aanmelding heeft u een verklaring ondertekend waarin u aangaf de
postcodes niet voor commercieel gebruik te zullen inzetten. Deze voorwaarde
van gebruik is komen te vervallen, hierbij willen wij dit toelichten.*

*De Staat heeft een afspraak met PostNL omtrent het commercieel gebruik van
de postcodes per 1 februari 2011  jl. opgezegd. Hierover is een rechtszaak
geweest tussen de Staat en PostNL, waarin PostNL deze opzegging heeft
betwist. De rechter heeft PostNL op 21 december 2011 jl. in het ongelijk
gesteld en beslist dat het convenant rechtsgeldig is opgezegd door de
Staat, wat betekent dat de postcode dus per 1 februari 2012 is vrijgegeven.
Dit betekent dat sedert* 1 februari 2012 alle gegevens uit de BAG door
iedereen zonder beperking te (her) gebruiken zijn.

PostNL heeft echter aangekondigd tegen deze uitspraak in beroep te gaan.
Mocht PostNL dit beroep (tegen onze verwachting in) winnen dan zal de Staat
zich verstaan met PostNL over de consequenties. De Staat zal dan proberen
een regeling te treffen, zodat afnemers geen last hebben van de veranderde
situatie. De verwachting is overigens niet dat PostNL afnemers van de BAG
zal aanspreken, die na 1 februari 2012 de postcode voor commerciële
doeleinden zijn gaan gebruiken, maar wij kunnen dit niet garanderen. Ook
weten wij op dit moment niet of en hoe lang de procedure rond een hoger
beroep zal lopen.

Overleg met het Ministerie van IenM heeft opgeleverd dat het niet meer
nodig is voor private afnemers de akkoordverklaring te ondertekenen. Dit
werd, ook na 1 februari 2012, nog wel gevraagd om juridische
aansprakelijkheid uit te kunnen sluiten.

Voor algemene informatie en veel gestelde vragen wil ik u hierbij ook nog
verwijzen naar onze website www.kadaster.nl/bag 

Ik vertrouw erop u volledig te hebben geïnformeerd.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Kadaster afdeling BAG
www.kadaster.nl/bag
(088) 183 34 00

-- 
martijn van exel
geospatial omnivore
1109 1st ave #2
salt lake city, ut 84103
801-550-5815
http://oegeo.wordpress.com
___
Talk-nl mailing list
Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Fwd: Commerciëel gebruik BAG gegevens

2012-03-07 Per discussione Stefan de Konink


On 07-03-12 17:36, Martijn van Exel wrote:

Ter informatie:


De projectgroep BAG was zelf nog minder geinformeerd over de zaak dan 
menig open data initiatief.


Omdat de CD-Foon gids ergens in 1994/1995 werd uitgegeven. Kun je deze 
dit jaar zonder databanken recht rippen. Dat betekent ook dat alle 
postcodes tot die tijd sowieso al databankenrecht vrij zouden zijn, 
mocht er databanken recht op zitten. Nu is het aan de gemeente om de 
bonnetjes die ze in de tussentijd van de TNT hebben ontvangen (nieuwe 
postcodes) op te duikelen en de BAG dan ook te verbeteren.


http://mirror.openstreetmap.nl/ptt/

Snap ook nogsteeds niet waarom de Postwet niet is aangevoerd bij de BAG 
discussie...



Stefan

___
Talk-nl mailing list
Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl

[Talk-de] Fehler JOSM?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Wolfgang Wienke


Hallo,
ich habe mit OSMTracker gemappt und dabei 5s-Audios aufgenommen.
Wenn ich versuche, sie mit JOSM abzuspielen, erhalte ich Ende der 
Aufzeichnung überschritten. Sonst kann ich die entsprechenden 
*.wav-Dateien aber problemlos abspielen. Woran liegt es? Früher hat es 
auch immer funktioniert.

--
   Mit freundlichen Gruessen

 Wolfgang Wienke

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-de] JOSM und hausnummern

2012-03-07 Per discussione Wolfgang Wienke


Hallo!
Wieso zeigt JOSM korrekt eingetragene Hausnummern teilweise an, 
teilweise aber auch nicht (z.B. id 139067495)?

--
   Mit freundlichen Gruessen

 Wolfgang Wienke

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fehler JOSM?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Paul Hartmann

On 03/07/2012 09:08 AM, Wolfgang Wienke wrote:
 Hallo,
 ich habe mit OSMTracker gemappt und dabei 5s-Audios aufgenommen.
 Wenn ich versuche, sie mit JOSM abzuspielen, erhalte ich Ende der
 Aufzeichnung überschritten. Sonst kann ich die entsprechenden
 *.wav-Dateien aber problemlos abspielen. Woran liegt es? Früher hat es
 auch immer funktioniert.

Bitte nicht mehrfach senden, eine identische Mail vom 4.3. wurde bereits
am gleichen Tag beantwortet.

Gruß, Paul

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] JOSM und hausnummern

2012-03-07 Per discussione Andre Joost


Am 07.03.12 09:13, schrieb Wolfgang Wienke:

Hallo!
Wieso zeigt JOSM korrekt eingetragene Hausnummern teilweise an,
teilweise aber auch nicht (z.B. id 139067495)?


Bei dem Knoten gibts keine Nummer ;-)

Aber josm zeigt auch dann keine Nummer an, wenn es interessantere tags 
an dem Knoten gibt.



Gruß,
Andre Joost




___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fahrspuren die 315.

Am 7. März 2012 01:06 schrieb Christian Müller cmu...@gmx.de:
 Weiterhin sehe nicht, wo das Konzept inkompatibel zur bestehenden
 highway-Definition sein soll.


nach der Definition von highway gibt es einen way, der sämtliche
Spuren (nach allgemeiner Lesart Gehwege inbegriffen) abbildet. Mehrere
parallele ways werden nur gezeichnet, wenn es eine bauliche Trennung
gibt. Für Spuren müsste man einen anderen tag verwenden. Daher ist
diese Kreuzung schlicht falsch im Hinblick auf die gegenwärtigen und
bisherigen Definitionen.


  Bisher
 gibt es das nicht, bisher bleibt mir als Interimslösung, die highway-tags zu
 benutzen, damit die bestehende Toolchain damit klarkommt.


die Toolchain kommt nicht damit klar, wenn man verschiedene Fahrbahnen
eingibt wo eigentlich verschiedene Fahrspuren auf einer Fahrbahn sind.
Was Du machst ist Taggen für den dataconsumer1+2 (d.h. dort sieht es
noch brauchbar aus/funktioniert es hinsichtlich bestimmter
Anforderungen) während die dataconsumer3-n die Situation völlig
anders interpretieren werden, als sie in der Realität ist.


 Des weiteren schlage ich vor, allen nay-sayern, Rumhackern und Fehlersuchern
 sich selbst aktiv mit der Thematik zu beschäftigen, anstatt hier auf der
 Liste U-Boot-Krieg zu führen:  Ich tauche nur auf, wenn sich etwas zum
 zerstören zeigt.


ich habe vor 2 Jahren einen Vorschlag gemacht, wie man explizit
gezeichnete ways für Spuren über eine Relation so verbinden könnte,
dass man auch noch weitere Vorteile davon hat (implizites und
explizites Mappen von Barriers wie Geländern, Bordsteinen, abgesenkten
Bordsteinen, Mittelstreifen, ...). Findest Du hier:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area


Gruß Martin

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Remappen von wichtigen Strassen in DE

2012-03-07 Per discussione Klaus-Hermann Otto Stanislaus Plöger

Am 6. März 2012 05:46 schrieb Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de:
 Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote:
 Ich habe das mal in einem früheren Beitrag im Forum thematisiert: Wenn
 man es sehr streng sieht, ist beispielsweise der POI an der
 Straßenecke von zwei nicht lizensierten Straßen nur aufgrund deren
 Vorhandenseins lokalisierbar gewesen.


das könnte so sein, muss aber nicht. Mit GPS hat man ein System, das
die Koordinaten eines beliebigen Punktes unabhängig vom Kontext
ermittelt. Wenn derjenige, der den POI eingetragen hat, das aufgrund
eines GPS-Waypoints gemacht hat, spielen die beiden Straßen dabei
keine Rolle.


 Noch mehr ausgeweitet: Erst
 durch die Orientierung, die uns frühe Mapper durch das Eintragen von
 Autobahnen, Hauptstraßen und Städtenamen in die weiße Karte gaben,
 konnte die Folgegeneration - und auch Remapper - an diese
 Orientierungsgebung anknüpfen.


s. oben, das ist bei dem in OSM üblichen System (gps-track
aufzeichnen, nachzeichnen und taggen) tendenziell eher weniger der
Fall. Ich brauche keine Autobahn oder Hauptstraße oder Städtenamen, um
mein Wohngebiet einzuzeichnen. Erst in jüngerer Zeit (durch die
Verfügbarkeit guter Luftbilder) hat sich das etwas verschoben.

Gruß Martin

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fahrspuren die 315 und Kreuzungen

2012-03-07 Per discussione Kay Drangmeister


Hi alle,

Am 07.03.2012, 01:06 Uhr, schrieb Christian Müller cmu...@gmx.de:


Hi Stephan,

Am 07.03.2012 00:15, schrieb Stephan Wolff:

Ich kann nicht erkennen, dass die Stern-Topologie die von mir
genannten Probleme löst. Ob die Ampeln und die Radwegquerungen zur
Kreuzung gehören, ist aus den Daten nicht erkennbar.


Aber natürlich ist es das.  Die Radwege queren dort, wo sie auch in der
Realität queren, selbst die Ampeln sind präziser platziert als vorher -
oder hast Du schonmal eine Ampel mitten auf der Kreuzung stehen sehen?


IMHO hat eine Stern-Topologie in vielen Fällen nichts mit der Realität
zu tun. Typisches Beispiel: irgendeine Kreuzung in Würzburg:

http://binged.it/wI7FIU

So jetzt identifiziere mal das was als Kreuzung betrachtet werden
sollte. Analog: Wie viele Kreuzungen sind auf dem Bild zu sehen?
Besonders dabei zu beachten: es gehen zahlreiche Fahrspuren frühzeitig
ab, um an Kreuzung A vorbei zu führen, damit man an Kreuzung B
dann links oder rechts fahren kann.

Somit bleibt einem die Wahl: gehört Kreuzung B zu A und alles auf dem
Bild ist eine große Kreuzung (mindestens einmal rauszoomen um sie
in aller Pracht zu sehen)? Oder sind sie getrennt, dann müsste aber
die Abfahrt zu B schon konsequenterweise als eigene Kreuzung zu sehen
sein, also A'. Insgesamt wäre dann jede Abfahrt schon eine eigene
Kreuzung, im Bild wären also ca. 40 solcher Kreuzungen zu sehen.

Das zeigt doch, dass wir schon mit dem Begriff Fahrspur (im Sinne
von diese gehört zu Kreuzung X) große Probleme haben (werden).
Für praktisch alle nicht-trivialen Kreuzungen macht also der Begriff
einer Kreuzung wenig Sinn. (Außer natürlich, um evtl. ein Gebiet
mit Namen zu kennzeichnen.)

Viele Grüße,
Kay

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fahrspuren die 315.

Moin
Sind hier nicht alle inzwischen im GodMode?
Wie wärs mit KISS?
Klaus
Am Dienstag, den 06.03.2012, 16:30 +0100 schrieb Christian Müller:

 Am 06.03.2012 11:34, schrieb Martin Vonwald:
  Die meisten Schemavorschläge setzen derzeit auf einen Way, der die 
  Attribute
  der Spuranordnung getaggt bekommt.
  Das ist meiner Meinung nach auch das sinnvollste und praktikabelste.
 
 Das ist die unpraktikabelste - immenser tag bloat auf einem way.  Kaum 
 wartbar für CM  (und auch nicht für HM)..
 Außerdem fehlt eine vernünftige Referenzierbarkeit der Spuren in den 
 Relationen  (from.1  ist was für Mapper im God-Mode)
 
 
 Gruß
 
 ___
 Talk-de mailing list
 Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de


-- 
Markus 4.39
___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Kreatives Mapping von Wald_Flurstücken

Am 6. März 2012 18:51 schrieb Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com:
 Laut wiki ist place=locality auch für Flächen möglich.
 Wäre das nicht das Richtige für solche Flurbezeichnungen?

 Das sehe ich auch so. Wenn man die Grenzen eines Flur-/Gewannnamens
 kennt, dann sollte man dies auch als Multipolygon eintragen.


+1. Wenn man allerdings genau weiss, um was es sich handelt (Flur,
Gewann, Gemarkung,) ẃäre ein Zusatztag nicht schlecht. place=locality
wird für alle möglichen Toponyme die nicht einen bewohnten Ort
darstellen verwendet.

Gruß Martin

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Kreatives Mapping von Wald_Flurstücken

2012-03-07 Per discussione Falk Zscheile

Am 7. März 2012 12:10 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 Am 6. März 2012 18:51 schrieb Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com:
 Laut wiki ist place=locality auch für Flächen möglich.
 Wäre das nicht das Richtige für solche Flurbezeichnungen?

 Das sehe ich auch so. Wenn man die Grenzen eines Flur-/Gewannnamens
 kennt, dann sollte man dies auch als Multipolygon eintragen.


 +1. Wenn man allerdings genau weiss, um was es sich handelt (Flur,
 Gewann, Gemarkung,) ẃäre ein Zusatztag nicht schlecht. place=locality
 wird für alle möglichen Toponyme die nicht einen bewohnten Ort
 darstellen verwendet.


Apropos -- wenn die einzelnen Flurnamen gemeinsam einen anderen Namen
haben als die einzelnen Stücke: Der Wald besteht aus den Flurnstücken
mit den Flurnamen X1, X2 und X3. Der Wald selbst heißt Y.

In diesem Fall wäre für die Zusammenfassung eine Multipolygonrelation
das Mittel der Wahl -- oder gibt es da etwas besseres? Eine
Site-Relation?

Gruß, Falk

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fahrspuren die 315 und Kreuzungen

Am 7. März 2012 11:41 schrieb Kay Drangmeister k...@drangmeister.net:
 IMHO hat eine Stern-Topologie in vielen Fällen nichts mit der Realität
 zu tun. Typisches Beispiel: irgendeine Kreuzung in Würzburg:

 http://binged.it/wI7FIU


+1, habe da auch beliebig viele Beispiele:
http://binged.it/znMwHS
http://binged.it/xBg6BB
http://binged.it/A5hCgX
http://binged.it/zVkFGU
http://binged.it/xKwOPI
http://binged.it/z5TPMd
...

Gruß Martin

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Kreatives Mapping von Wald_Flurstücken

2012-03-07 Per discussione Andre Joost


Am 07.03.12 12:26, schrieb Falk Zscheile:


Apropos -- wenn die einzelnen Flurnamen gemeinsam einen anderen Namen
haben als die einzelnen Stücke: Der Wald besteht aus den Flurnstücken
mit den Flurnamen X1, X2 und X3. Der Wald selbst heißt Y.

In diesem Fall wäre für die Zusammenfassung eine Multipolygonrelation
das Mittel der Wahl -- oder gibt es da etwas besseres? Eine
Site-Relation?


wenn die Teile nebeneinander liegen, besteht kein Grund, eine 
Multipolygonverarbeitung anzustoßen. Da reicht also collection oder site.


Gruß,
André Joost


___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-de] Smrender released into the wild

2012-03-07 Per discussione Bernhard R. Fischer

Smrender is a rule-based renderer for OSM data. The rule set is very flexible 
and it supports dynamic loading and linking...

http://www.cypherpunk.at/2012/03/07/smrender-released-into-the-wild/


Best regards,
Bernhard


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Kreatives Mapping von Wald_Flurstücken

2012-03-07 Per discussione Masi Master

Auch wenn die Teile nicht nebeneinander liegen, besteht kein Grund die  
Teile aus dem Wald (mit dem Namen Y) (per Muptipolygon)  
herauszuschneiden. Gehört doch immernoch zum Wald.


Gruß
Masi


Am 07.03.2012, 13:17 Uhr, schrieb Andre Joost andre+jo...@nurfuerspam.de:


Am 07.03.12 12:26, schrieb Falk Zscheile:


Apropos -- wenn die einzelnen Flurnamen gemeinsam einen anderen Namen
haben als die einzelnen Stücke: Der Wald besteht aus den Flurnstücken
mit den Flurnamen X1, X2 und X3. Der Wald selbst heißt Y.

In diesem Fall wäre für die Zusammenfassung eine Multipolygonrelation
das Mittel der Wahl -- oder gibt es da etwas besseres? Eine
Site-Relation?


wenn die Teile nebeneinander liegen, besteht kein Grund, eine  
Multipolygonverarbeitung anzustoßen. Da reicht also collection oder site.


Gruß,
André Joost


___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de




___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fehler JOSM?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Herbert Hannebrook


Am 07.03.2012 09:26, schrieb Paul Hartmann:

On 03/07/2012 09:08 AM, Wolfgang Wienke wrote:

Hallo,
ich habe mit OSMTracker gemappt und dabei 5s-Audios aufgenommen.
Wenn ich versuche, sie mit JOSM abzuspielen, erhalte ich Ende der
Aufzeichnung überschritten. Sonst kann ich die entsprechenden
*.wav-Dateien aber problemlos abspielen. Woran liegt es? Früher hat es
auch immer funktioniert.


Bitte nicht mehrfach senden, eine identische Mail vom 4.3. wurde bereits
am gleichen Tag beantwortet.

Gruß, Paul

Hallo,
auf die erste Frage kamen drei Antworten, die mit der Frage nichts zu 
tun haben!!

Die einzige Antwort:
Dieser Fehler sollte behoben sein, mal mit der latest probiert? 
Ansonsten ist JOSM Trac der richtige Ort, um Bugs zu melden.

ist nur für jemanden, der diese Frage selber beantworten könnte sinnig!
Die erneute Anfrage wird mit einem Rüffel beantwortet!

Warum sollte ich als Mapper, der zwar eine ganze Menge zu OSM beiträgt, 
aber nicht in die Tiefen einsteigen will, hier noch eine Frage stellen?


Mich ärgert solche Arroganz!
Luccass


___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fehler JOSM?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Schorschi


On Wed, 7 Mar 2012, Paul Hartmann wrote:

 On 03/07/2012 09:08 AM, Wolfgang Wienke wrote:

  ich habe mit OSMTracker gemappt und dabei 5s-Audios aufgenommen.
  Wenn ich versuche, sie mit JOSM abzuspielen, erhalte ich Ende der
  Aufzeichnung überschritten. Sonst kann ich die entsprechenden
  *.wav-Dateien aber problemlos abspielen. Woran liegt es? Früher hat es
  auch immer funktioniert.

 Bitte nicht mehrfach senden, eine identische Mail vom 4.3. wurde bereits
 am gleichen Tag beantwortet.

entweder hängt mein E-Mail-Programm, oder du meinst die Mail, die zwar an 
der Frage hängt, aber keineswegs eine Antwort enthält, sondern eine neue 
Frage ... da finde ich die Wiederholung ok, und die Kritik hätte an 
denjenigen gehen sollen, der den Thread gekapert hat.

Aber eine Antwort auf die eigentliche Frage weiß ich auch nicht.

Schusch
___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fehler JOSM?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Friedhelm Schmidt


Nu mal langsam:

Am 07.03.2012 20:18, schrieb Herbert Hannebrook:

Die einzige Antwort:
Dieser Fehler sollte behoben sein, mal mit der latest probiert?
Ansonsten ist JOSM Trac der richtige Ort, um Bugs zu melden.


Die Antwort-Frage ist berechtigt und hilfreich. Ich habe diesen Fehler 
(für .wav ) nämlich auch bemerkt und - Asche auf mein Haupt - nicht 
gemeldet weil ich für mich schnell einen Workaround fand.



Die erneute Anfrage wird mit einem Rüffel beantwortet!

Warum sollte ich als Mapper, der zwar eine ganze Menge zu OSM beiträgt,
aber nicht in die Tiefen einsteigen will, hier noch eine Frage stellen?


Diese empörte Nachricht hat immerhin bewirkt dass ich das mit 
josm-latest (5047) mal wieder probiert habe und siehe da: es geht wieder.



Mich ärgert solche Arroganz!


Mich ärgert, wenn man sich auf ein hohes moralisches Ross setzt ohne 
sich sachlich mit dem eigentlichen Problem überhaupt auseinanderzusetzen.


-fri-

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-de] Lizenz - zugestimmt?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Andreas Volz

Hallo,

kann mir jemand sagen wo ich einsehen kann ob ich dem OSM Lizenzwechsel
schon zugestimmt habe? Ich wollte das eigentlich mal machen, aber kann
mich nicht mehr erinnern ob ich es damals auch alles richtig gemacht
habe. Gibt es eine Liste oder ein Feld in meinem Profil?

Was passiert, wenn ich nicht zugestimmt habe mit meinen Daten? Geht dann
etwas von meinen bisher gemappten Daten im öffentlichen Bestand
verloren?

Gruß
Andreas

-- 
Technical Blog http://andreasvolz.wordpress.com/

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Fahrspuren die 315.

2012-03-07 Per discussione Stephan Wolff


Am 07.03.2012 01:06, schrieb Christian Müller:

Hi Stephan,

Am 07.03.2012 00:15, schrieb Stephan Wolff:

Ich kann nicht erkennen, dass die Stern-Topologie die von mir
genannten Probleme löst. Ob die Ampeln und die Radwegquerungen zur
Kreuzung gehören, ist aus den Daten nicht erkennbar.


Aber natürlich ist es das. Die Radwege queren dort, wo sie auch in der
Realität queren, selbst die Ampeln sind präziser platziert als vorher -


Auch andere Mapper platzieren die Ampel vor der Kreuzung. Um die 
Platzierung ging es nicht, sondern um die logische Verknüpfung von

Ampel und Kreuzung.


Abgesehen davon verraten Dir die üblichen Daten nicht gerade
mehr darüber, was zu einer Kreuzung gehört.


Das war die Aussage in meiner ersten Mail.


Für einige gerade Kreuzungsquerungen werden vermutlich falsche
Anweisungen zum Rechtsabbiegen im Sternpunkt ausgeben.


Das ist schlichter Unsinn und zeigt, dass Du dich mit turn-restricitions
nur ungenügend beschäftigt hast. Hier also nochmal, am Beispiel eines
only_straight_on:

- für den Router heißt das: nur vom from in den to Weg routen, alle
anderen als invalid markieren


Ja.


- für den Benutzer heißt es immer straight_on - selbst dann noch, wenn
from und to geometrisch in anderen Winkeln als 180 Grad zueinander stehen.
- du kannst mit turn_restrictions in osm einen u_turn mit
only_straight_on bauen und der Benutzer erhielte die Anweisung gerade
aus über die Kreuzung, obwohl die Geometrie dem nicht entspricht


Das ist Quatsch. Keine Router übernimmt den restriction-Typ als 
Anweisung. Soll der Typ no_right_turn als biegen sie nicht rechts ab

ausgegeben werden?


Weiterhin sehe nicht, wo das Konzept inkompatibel zur bestehenden
highway-Definition sein soll.


- bauliche Trennung vs Spurwechsel
- unverbundene highways zur Verbesserung des Renderbildes


Des weiteren schlage ich vor, allen nay-sayern, Rumhackern und
Fehlersuchern sich selbst aktiv mit der Thematik zu beschäftigen,
anstatt hier auf der Liste U-Boot-Krieg zu führen: Ich tauche nur auf,
wenn sich etwas zum zerstören zeigt. Mappt eine komplexe Kreuzung mit
dem gleichen Detailgrad und stellt eure Lösungsvorschläge im Wiki auf
einer Seite vor - __zum Schluß__ lohnt es sich zu vergleichen, welche
Lösung wirklich die beste ist.. Ist das so schwer geworden?


Die Kritik ist lustig. Ich hatte an meine letzte Mail einen Links 
angefügt, der eine Konzeptstudie von mir erläutert. Dort verweist ein

Link auf folgende Kreuzung: http://osm.org/go/0HsPVeHXn-

Bitte vergleiche selbst Detailgrad, Genauigkeit und Kompatibilität mit 
bestehenden Tools. Dass mein Konzept keine Änderung in der Mapnikkarte

erzwingt, ist kein Fehler sondern erwünschte Eigenschaft.

Hast du überhaupt einmal osm einzelspurmapping oder ähnliches bei 
Google eingegeben und die vorherigen Konzepte angesehen?


Viele Grüße
Stephan


___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Lizenz - zugestimmt?

2012-03-07 Per discussione mailto...@gmx.net

On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 23:48:49 +0100
Andreas Volz li...@brachttal.net wrote:

 Hallo,
 
 kann mir jemand sagen wo ich einsehen kann ob ich dem OSM Lizenzwechsel
 schon zugestimmt habe?

Hallo Andreas,

du kannst, wenn du auf http://openstreetmap.org eingeloggt bist, rechts 
oberhalb der Kartenansicht auf deinen Profilnamen klicken. Auf der nun 
aufgehenden Seite findest du dann die nötigen Informationen. Weiterhin merkst 
du, dass du zugestimmt hast daran, dass du OSM mit deinen eigenen Änderungen 
verbessern kannst.

Viele Grüße,
Aimo

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-de] Historie und ID in JOSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione Markus


Wie finde ich in JOSM den Link zur Historie eines Objektes?

Wie finde ich in JOSM die ID eines Objektes?

Mit Strg-h bekomme ich die Historie, dort steht auch die ID,
lässt sich aber nicht kopieren.

Auch in Auswahl und in Versionsprotokoll bekomme ich die ID,
lässt sich aber nicht kopieren.

Gruss, Markus

___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

Re: [Talk-de] Historie und ID in JOSM

2012-03-07 Per discussione Michael Bemmerl

Markus schrieb:
 Wie finde ich in JOSM den Link zur Historie eines Objektes?

Im Menü View  History (Web).

 Wie finde ich in JOSM die ID eines Objektes?

In den Einstellungen unter Look and Feel lässt sich bei Show object ID
in selections lists einstellen, ob die ID in der Auswahlliste angezeigt
werden soll. Nach dem Selektieren des Objekts in dieser Liste kannst Du
die ID per Strg + C in die Zwischenablage kopieren.

Grüße,
Michael



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-de] Einzelspurmapping (war: Fahrspuren die 315.)

2012-03-07 Per discussione Stephan Wolff


Am 07.03.2012 07:30, schrieb Ronnie Soak:

Am 07.03.12 schrieb Stephan Wolffs.wo...@web.de:



http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2012-January/092178.html


Von den bisher vorgestellten Optionen finde ich dein Modell am vernuenftigsten.


Danke für das Lob.


Meiner Meinung nach kommt man um eigene ways nicht herum, da nun mal
die Datenbasis an sich so angelegt ist, das Ortsinformationen in
nodes/ways gehoeren, und nicht indirekt in tags.


Einzelspurmapping ist für OSM sicher nicht zwingend erforderlich. Erst
wenn man halbrealistische Kreuzungsdarstellungen auf Fahrersicht oder
Spurdarstellungen mit GPS-Genauigkeit (+-5m) fordert, kommt man mit
einer tagbasierten Lösung nicht weiter.
Einzelspurmapping kann nur eine Ergänzung für komplizierte Kreuzungen
sein, kein genereller Ersatz für das lanes-Tag.


Dein Modell fuehrt
dabei nicht zu Inkompatibilitaeten, weil es den highway=* tag nicht
missbraucht. Eine hierarchische Loesung scheint mir da die
geeignetste. Zumal man viele der Nachteil, wie redundante
Datenhaltung, sehr gut durch den Editor erschlagen kann. (detail lanes
werden automatisch zusammen mit dem highway in einer relation gefasst,
die ebenfalls automatisch die daten des highways uebernimmt).

Koenntest du kurz zusammenfassen, was dir damals als Gegenargument
genannt wurde?


Zunächst ist es nur eine Konzeptstudie und kein fertiges Datenmodell.
Die Verknüpfung mit den üblichen Tags (highway-Typ, name, ref, surface)
hatte ich nicht ausgearbeitet. Vermutlich wäre eine Relation pro Straße
sinnvoll. Ich habe keine Renderregeln erstellt und keinen Router für
das Einzelspurrouting angepasst.
Ich wollte zeigen, dass ein Einzelspurmodell mit wenigen einfachen
Elementen möglich ist. Mir fehlt die Zeit und das tiefe Interesse
das Konzept auszubauen und zu propagieren.

Hauptkritikpunkte waren
- der Aufwand für die Mapper ist hoch
- die vielen ways würden unerfahrene Mapper von der Bearbeitung abschrecken
- man kann die Daten nicht mit dem GPS aufnehmen oder am Smartphone 
erstellen

- das mögliche Renderergebnis wäre nicht schön (Je nach Anforderung
liefern ein tagbasiertes Straßenmodell, flächenbasierte Modelle oder
das Einzelspurmapping hübschere, bessere oder genauere Ergebnisse.
Alle Datenmodelle können grundsätzlich nebeneinander existieren)
- die Verbindung der Spuren mit einfachen lane_change-ways an
wenigen Stellen entspricht nicht der Realität (die Verknüpfung über
Flächen oder Relationen wäre auch möglich, aber für den Mapper mit mehr
Aufwand verbunden und für den Router viel schwerer auszuwerten, so dass
ich das einfachste Modell gewählt habe)

Die ersten vier Punkte betreffen das Einzelspurmapping allgemein,
der letzte meine spezielle Umsetzung.

Viele Grüße
Stephan


___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de

[Talk-it] percorso per rilevazione

2012-03-07 Per discussione emmexx

Volevo sapere se esiste un software che partendo dai dati gia' presenti
in osm mi calcoli il miglior percorso per ottimizzare il passaggio in
tutte le strade di un bbox.
Devo fare una rilevazione e sarebbe comodo avere gia' il tragitto pronto.
Non mi suggerite di scrivermi da solo uno dei vari algoritmi del
commesso viaggiatore, non ho tempo e voglia. ;-)

grazie
maxx

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Credits

2012-03-07 Per discussione Pietro

Ciao Luca,

2012/3/7 Luca Delucchi lucadel...@gmail.com:
 Il 06 marzo 2012 19:46, Pietro peter.z...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Una curiosità, che cosa hai usato per generare le tue mappe e
 personalizzarle? Mio zio mi aveva chiesto un consiglio, e stavo
 guardando a tilemill[0]

 dipende quello che devi fare, tilemill è per creare tiles e si
 appoggia a mapnik. Se tuo zio è un altro zambelli gli consiglierei i
 binding in python di mapnik ;-)

L'obiettivo è quello di creare delle mappe da inserire per una
pubblicazione, quindi possibilmente in formato vettoriale (svg) o con
una risoluzione alta (300 dpi), potendo personalizzare lo stile. Mi
sarebbe piaciuto sfruttare uno dei sistemi di CSS per le mappe...

Siccome leggendo quello che ha scritto Mich74, mi sembra di aver
capito che ha fatto qualcosa di molto simile a quello che vorrebbe
fare mio zio. E' la prima volta che mi pongo questo problema e volevo
capire cosa ha utilizzato.

Grazie, scusate l'offtopic!

Pietro

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

[Talk-it] R: Re: Credits

2012-03-07 Per discussione mima...@tin.it

ciao, io ho esportato il file in pdf dal sito osm, importato in illustrator e 
da lì modificato come piaceva a memichele



Messaggio originale
Da: peter.z...@gmail.com
Data: 7-mar-2012 9.21
A: openstreetmap list - italianotalk-it@openstreetmap.org
Ogg: Re: [Talk-it] Credits

Ciao Luca,

2012/3/7 Luca Delucchi lucadel...@gmail.com:
 Il 06 marzo 2012 19:46, Pietro peter.z...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Una curiosità, che cosa hai usato per generare le tue mappe e
 personalizzarle? Mio zio mi aveva chiesto un consiglio, e stavo
 guardando a tilemill[0]

 dipende quello che devi fare, tilemill è per creare tiles e si
 appoggia a mapnik. Se tuo zio è un altro zambelli gli consiglierei i
 binding in python di mapnik ;-)

L'obiettivo è quello di creare delle mappe da inserire per una
pubblicazione, quindi possibilmente in formato vettoriale (svg) o con
una risoluzione alta (300 dpi), potendo personalizzare lo stile. Mi
sarebbe piaciuto sfruttare uno dei sistemi di CSS per le mappe...

Siccome leggendo quello che ha scritto Mich74, mi sembra di aver
capito che ha fatto qualcosa di molto simile a quello che vorrebbe
fare mio zio. E' la prima volta che mi pongo questo problema e volevo
capire cosa ha utilizzato.

Grazie, scusate l'offtopic!

Pietro

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it






   ___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Strada Statale contro SR

2012-03-07 Per discussione Simone Saviolo

Il 07 marzo 2012 01:14, Umberto Piacenza umberto.piace...@alice.it ha scritto:
 Su OSM ho usato i segg. tag per le ways:

      * highway=primary
      * loc_name=Via Tal dei Tali  (se conosciuto)
      * name=Padana Superiore
      * nat_ref=SP ex SS11         (ove esistente)
      * old_ref=SS11
      * ref=SP ex SS11             (era   ref:SS11)

 render Mapnik: così nessuno scudetto ref, solo il nome

Scusa, perché metti Via... su loc_name e usi come name Padana
Superiore? Corso Prestinari a Vercelli giace sul percorso della
Padana Superiore, ma mica si chiama Padana Superiore.

Ciao,

Simone

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Strada Statale contro SR

Am 7. März 2012 01:14 schrieb Umberto Piacenza umberto.piace...@alice.it:
 Sono nuovo della lista, anche se vi seguo da un paio di anni come
 mappatore[ UmbeP ].


ciao e benvenuto!


 Su OSM ho usato i segg. tag per le ways:
      * loc_name=Via Tal dei Tali  (se conosciuto)


lo mettrei in name


      * name=Padana Superiore


lo potresti mettere in name della relazione route. Non lo mettrei
sul way. Forse sarebbe una possibilità di metterlo in un tag
alt_name?


      * nat_ref=SP ex SS11         (ove esistente)
      * ref=SP ex SS11             (era   ref:SS11)


il nat_ref serve solo quando è differente dal ref, altrimenti lo ommetti.


      * old_ref=SS11


+1, questo senza dubbio


 Secondo me potremmo mettere la denominazione ufficiale sul tag nat_ref e
 reg_ref ed invece la vecchia ma più usata denominazione sul tag ref
 (sigla usuale)


+1, ma solo in uno dei due (nat_ref oppure reg_ref, credo sia meglio
nat_ref perchè la denominazione delle strade statali viene gestito al
livello nazionale).

ciao,
Martin

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] R: Re: Credits

Am 7. März 2012 07:35 schrieb  mima...@tin.it:
 Io ho esportato la mappa in formato pdf e poi sistemata con illustrator, le 
 mappe sono piccole.


Un altra possibilità quando hai a disposizione illustrator è un script
di Richard Fairhurst (osm2ai) che trasforma la geometria OSM (file
osm) in un file illustrator (però tutto trasparente all'inizio,
dovresti filtrare e colorare poi in illustrator).

ciao,
Martin

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Credits

Am 7. März 2012 09:21 schrieb Pietro peter.z...@gmail.com:
 L'obiettivo è quello di creare delle mappe da inserire per una
 pubblicazione, quindi possibilmente in formato vettoriale (svg) o con
 una risoluzione alta (300 dpi), potendo personalizzare lo stile. Mi
 sarebbe piaciuto sfruttare uno dei sistemi di CSS per le mappe...


il formato vettoriale che ti scrive mapnik (cairo) non è molto adatto
per questo scopo (perchè i testi diventano vettori non più editabili
come testo), spesso la gente usa osmarender e sistema poi a mano
(osmarender tende a creare tante sovraposizioni).


 Grazie, scusate l'offtopic!


non è mica offtopic parlare qui della creazione di mappe OSM ;-)

ciao,
Martin

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 08:46, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:

mi spiace ma a google do già troppi dati! :-)


Capisco, ma per tutelare la privacy basta usare un nickname di fantasia, 
ed eventualmente un indirizzo indicativo (il centro del tuo comune). Che 
dici? Rispondimi pure in privato.


Ovviamente si tratterebbe in ogni caso di una soluzione temporanea in 
attesa di qualcosa di meglio.




Se vuoi posso fare la mappa con OSM


Ottimo: se riesci ad occuparti di questo, mi fai già un grande piacere.

Hai voglia di iscriverti al forum, ed intervenire direttamente in 
questa[1] discussione?




comunque ad oggi non uso bitcoin;
ma magari è il momento che incomincio a crearmene un pochino


Tieni presente che in Italia non conviene estrarli: il costo 
dell'energia elettrica è troppo alto. Ci sono comunque sempre le altre 2 
alternative per procurarseli:


1) comprarli sul mercato
2) fornire beni/servizi in cambio di BTC



te chiedi, io rispondo...


Grazie mille per la disponibilità! :)

Ciao!

Carlo


[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66495.0

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

[Talk-it] Fino a che distanza è affidabile lo scostamento ?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Alech OSM

 

 

Dopo aver effettuato lo scostamento di Bing capita a volte di mappare
oggetti diversi (fossi, edifici, staccionate) in un sola direzione e di
allontanarmi dal punto di partenza ,

e visto che le le ortofoto sono composte da un patchwork di immagini diverse
e non tutte sono corrette/sbagliate nella stesa misura

mi domando dopo quanto va rieseguito lo scostamento

 

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 09:46, David Paleino ha scritto:
Creare bitcoin ormai è difficile, ci vuole hardware dedicato acceso 
tutto il

giorno per recuperare qualche spicciolo. Con un paio di settimane, a giugno
(quando la difficoltà di mining era minore di adesso) ho guadagnato 0.088 BTC,
l'equivalente di circa 0,30€. Ma il vps è stato due settimane a macinare, con
conseguente consumo di corrente elettrica e surriscaldamento del globo. :)

Certo non era hardware dedicato (c'è gente che si costruisce mostri con sole
schede grafiche che fanno mining), ma a meno che tu non sia pronto ad investire
€€€ (comprando schede a 150-200€ l'una), il mining non è una via fattibile.

Ma Stemby ha più esperienza di me con i bitcoin, magari io mi son perso
qualcosa per strada.


Tutto giusto, tranne il fatto che la difficoltà, se non ricordo male, in 
giugno era più alta di adesso. Non sono riuscito a trovare un grafico, 
ma mi sembra di ricordare che è proprio in quel periodo che si sono 
toccati tutti i record, compresa una difficoltà di circa 200.


In ogni caso, a prescindere dalla difficoltà, noi italiani siamo sempre 
svantaggiati, a causa del costo dell'energia molto più alto di quello 
dei concorrenti stranieri.


Ciao!

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Credits

2012-03-07 Per discussione Simone Saviolo

Il 07 marzo 2012 11:13, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto:
 Am 7. März 2012 09:21 schrieb Pietro peter.z...@gmail.com:
 L'obiettivo è quello di creare delle mappe da inserire per una
 pubblicazione, quindi possibilmente in formato vettoriale (svg) o con
 una risoluzione alta (300 dpi), potendo personalizzare lo stile. Mi
 sarebbe piaciuto sfruttare uno dei sistemi di CSS per le mappe...


 il formato vettoriale che ti scrive mapnik (cairo) non è molto adatto
 per questo scopo (perchè i testi diventano vettori non più editabili
 come testo), spesso la gente usa osmarender e sistema poi a mano
 (osmarender tende a creare tante sovraposizioni).

Visto che anch'io vorrei realizzare delle mappe per un lavoretto
personale, quale soluzione consigli? Pensavo di usare Maperitive, è
una buona scelta?

Ciao,

Simone

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Pasticciaccio brutto con il catasto strade a Pordenone...

2012-03-07 Per discussione Maurizio Napolitano

2012/3/2 Marco Gaiarin marcog...@libero.it:

Date una occhiata a questo:

http://carta.ilgazzettino.it/LeggiGiornale.php?TipoVisualizzazione=CodSigla=PNNumPagina=1
(data 2 marzo)
http://carta.ilgazzettino.it/MostraStoria.php?TokenStoria=2622963Data=20120302CodSigla=PN

A quanto ho capito la mia provincia ha deciso di dare in appalto la
realizzazione del catasto strade a una società privata, la quale alla
fine si è rifiutata di consegnare i dati alla regione (che li ha
aperti) invocando su di essi la proprietà intellettuale, con tanto
di sentenza a favore.

Ora la regione, nella buona sostanza, toglie il finanziamento al
progetto (alla provincia): se non mi dai i dati, non ti do i soldi.

Una bella conseguenza di non usare dati liberi, eh?

mah ...
premesso che ho qualche dubbio sul fatto di usare i meccanismi
del copyleft all'interno dei dati - se non nel caso di openstreetmap
pdove il fine è quello di proteggere il progetto - qui mi sembra che
il problema bene sia diverso.

La questione di fondo è che hanno sbagliato in partenza a non chiarire
a chi andava la proprietà dei dati.
Tra l'altro non è proprietà intellettuale ma diritto sui generis in
quanto si tratta
di salvaguardare il lavoro fatto nella raccolta di dati (ovvero
descrizione di fatti oggettivi
riproducibili senza ambiguità e archiviabili in formato digitale).

Il lato triste che vedo in tutto questo è che la p.a di PN è stata
poco furba e che, queste
ambiguità, non dovrebbero esistere in partenza.
Qui da me (Trentino) la p.a. vuole avere tutti i diritti su qualsiasi
cosa che viene finanziata
(anche qui c'è da discutere).

In generale penso che la prassi giusta da seguire sia quella USA dove,
tutti i dati prodotti
dalla p.a. o per la p.a., sono di pubblico dominio (come è giusto che siano)

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Credits

2012-03-07 Per discussione Oscar Formaggi

Si, Maperitive mi pare una buona scelta.


--
Oscar



Il giorno 07 marzo 2012 11:37, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com ha
scritto:

 Il 07 marzo 2012 11:13, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha
 scritto:
  Am 7. März 2012 09:21 schrieb Pietro peter.z...@gmail.com:
  L'obiettivo è quello di creare delle mappe da inserire per una
  pubblicazione, quindi possibilmente in formato vettoriale (svg) o con
  una risoluzione alta (300 dpi), potendo personalizzare lo stile. Mi
  sarebbe piaciuto sfruttare uno dei sistemi di CSS per le mappe...
 
 
  il formato vettoriale che ti scrive mapnik (cairo) non è molto adatto
  per questo scopo (perchè i testi diventano vettori non più editabili
  come testo), spesso la gente usa osmarender e sistema poi a mano
  (osmarender tende a creare tante sovraposizioni).

 Visto che anch'io vorrei realizzare delle mappe per un lavoretto
 personale, quale soluzione consigli? Pensavo di usare Maperitive, è
 una buona scelta?

 Ciao,

 Simone

 ___
 Talk-it mailing list
 Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

Il 07 marzo 2012 11:16, Carlo Stemberger carlo.stember...@gmail.com
ha scritto:


 Capisco, ma per tutelare la privacy basta usare un nickname di fantasia, ed
 eventualmente un indirizzo indicativo (il centro del tuo comune). Che dici?

il problema non è il nickname bensì dare un'informazione a google cioè
la posizione di un utilizzatore di bitcoin (anche se non lo sono)

 Rispondimi pure in privato.

 Ovviamente si tratterebbe in ogni caso di una soluzione temporanea in attesa
 di qualcosa di meglio.


allora mi aggiungo al qualcosa di meglio ;-)


 Ottimo: se riesci ad occuparti di questo, mi fai già un grande piacere.


dove possiamo metterla?
ho tutto più o meno pronto

 Hai voglia di iscriverti al forum, ed intervenire direttamente in questa[1]
 discussione?


potrei delegare te? :-)
ho veramente un sacco di cose per la testa e molto probabilmente mi
dimenticherei di leggerlo ;-)


 Tieni presente che in Italia non conviene estrarli: il costo dell'energia
 elettrica è troppo alto.

beh no sei hai questo [0] :-)
e qualche server sparso per il mondo ;-)

 Ci sono comunque sempre le altre 2 alternative per
 procurarseli:

 1) comprarli sul mercato
 2) fornire beni/servizi in cambio di BTC


la seconda mi piace...ci penso su...



 Grazie mille per la disponibilità! :)

 Ciao!

 Carlo



[0] http://gis.cri.fmach.it/cluster/

-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] percorso per rilevazione


Il 07/03/2012 09:09, emmexx ha scritto:

Volevo sapere se esiste un software che partendo dai dati gia' presenti
in osm mi calcoli il miglior percorso per ottimizzare il passaggio in
tutte le strade di un bbox.


Non ne ho idea.



Non mi suggerite di scrivermi da solo uno dei vari algoritmi del
commesso viaggiatore, non ho tempo e voglia. ;-)


In realtà questo è il problema del postino cinese:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problema_del_postino_cinese

Ciao!

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

2012-03-07 Per discussione David Paleino

On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:26:33 +0100, Luca Delucchi wrote:

 Il 07 marzo 2012 11:16, Carlo Stemberger carlo.stember...@gmail.com
 ha scritto:
 
  Tieni presente che in Italia non conviene estrarli: il costo dell'energia
  elettrica è troppo alto.
 
 beh no sei hai questo [0] :-)

Posso chiederti una login in prestito? *g* :p

-- 
 . ''`.   Debian developer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino
 : :'  : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/
 `. `'`  GPG: 1392B174 | http://deb.li/dapal
   `-   2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] percorso per rilevazione

2012-03-07 Per discussione emmexx

Il 03/07/2012 12:29 PM, Carlo Stemberger scrisse:
 In realtà questo è il problema del postino cinese:
 
 http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problema_del_postino_cinese

C'e' sempre da imparare...

grazie
maxx

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 12:26, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:

dove possiamo metterla?
ho tutto più o meno pronto


Fammi sapere i requisiti, che ci organizziamo.



Hai voglia di iscriverti al forum, ed intervenire direttamente in questa[1]
discussione?


potrei delegare te? :-)


Ok.



Tieni presente che in Italia non conviene estrarli: il costo dell'energia
elettrica è troppo alto.

beh no sei hai questo [0] :-)
e qualche server sparso per il mondo ;-)


In realtà temo che non convenga comunque. Anche con la CPU più potente 
si fa ben poco in confronto al numero di hash che si possono calcolare 
con una scheda video ATI recente.


Qui qualche dato per farti un'idea:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison

Per darti un'idea, il tuo Xeon ha circa (se non ho visto male) 1/100 
della potenza della migliore scheda ATI, ai fini dell'estrazione dei 
Bitcoin. Un qualsiasi ragazzino con una scrausissima ATI da 30 € 
produrrebbe più BTC per unità di tempo di quel server, consumando tra 
l'altro molta meno energia elettrica.


Le mining rig in realtà sono tutto scheda video: RAM e CPU contano zero.

Ciao!

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

Il 07 marzo 2012 12:33, David Paleino da...@debian.org ha scritto:


 Posso chiederti una login in prestito? *g* :p

abbiamo costi metà di amazon cloud ;-)

-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

Il 07 marzo 2012 12:50, Carlo Stemberger carlo.stember...@gmail.com
ha scritto:

 Fammi sapere i requisiti, che ci organizziamo.


direi apache, php e spatialite perchè poi si utilizza OpenLayers che
però sarà dentro la cartella che vi mando


 Le mining rig in realtà sono tutto scheda video: RAM e CPU contano zero.


ok, grazie :-)

 Ciao!

 Carlo



-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 13:59, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:

Il 07 marzo 2012 12:50, Carlo Stembergercarlo.stember...@gmail.com
ha scritto:

Fammi sapere i requisiti, che ci organizziamo.


direi apache, php e spatialite perchè poi si utilizza OpenLayers che
però sarà dentro la cartella che vi mando


Mmm, per i primi 2 punti non dovrebbero esserci problemi, ma temo che 
SpatiaLite non sia così banale da trovare.


Per caso saresti in grado di fornire un servizio di hosting? A che prezzo?

Grazie, e a presto!

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

2012-03-07 Per discussione sabas88

Il giorno 07 marzo 2012 15:07, Carlo Stemberger
carlo.stember...@gmail.comha scritto:



 Per caso saresti in grado di fornire un servizio di hosting? A che prezzo?


Se volete spendere poco http://store.televideocom.com/
Sennò conosco anche questo http://thirdeye.it/


 Grazie, e a presto!


 Carlo

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 15:10, sabas88 ha scritto:


Se volete spendere poco http://store.televideocom.com/
Sennò conosco anche questo http://thirdeye.it/


Hanno macchine con installato SpatiaLite?

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

Il 07 marzo 2012 15:07, Carlo Stemberger carlo.stember...@gmail.com
ha scritto:


 Mmm, per i primi 2 punti non dovrebbero esserci problemi, ma temo che
 SpatiaLite non sia così banale da trovare.


ho detto spatialite ma potrebbe essere anche postgis...

 Per caso saresti in grado di fornire un servizio di hosting? A che prezzo?


si, dimmi quanti bitcoin siete disposti a darmi :-)

 Grazie, e a presto!


 Carlo


-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


Il 07/03/2012 15:13, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:


si, dimmi quanti bitcoin siete disposti a darmi :-)


Fammi un prezzo in Euro, che ti dico :)

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

2012-03-07 Per discussione sabas88

Il giorno 07 marzo 2012 15:13, Carlo Stemberger
carlo.stember...@gmail.comha scritto:

 Il 07/03/2012 15:10, sabas88 ha scritto:


 Se volete spendere poco http://store.televideocom.com/
 Sennò conosco anche questo http://thirdeye.it/


 Hanno macchine con installato SpatiaLite?


ThirdEye conosco il proprietario, credo che se gli dici cosa vuoi te lo
metta :)



 Carlo

 --
  .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
  |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
  \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
  /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
 |\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
 \_|=='|_/   
 http://debiancounter.**altervista.org/http://debiancounter.altervista.org/|


 __**_
 Talk-it mailing list
 Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin


P.S.:
Per darti un ordine di grandezza, per il gestionale del GAS pensavamo di 
prendere questo:


http://www.microthosting.com/hosting/personal-plan.html

Ha molto di più di quello che ci servirebbe, tranne, a questo punto, un 
database geografico.


Ciao!

Carlo

--
 .'  `.   | Registered Linux User #443882
 |a_a  |  | http://counter.li.org/  .''`.
 \_)__/  +--- : :'  :
 /(   )\  ---+ `. `'`
|\`/\  Registered Debian User #9 |   `-
\_|=='|_/   http://debiancounter.altervista.org/ |


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Pasticciaccio brutto con il catasto strade a Pordenone...

2012-03-07 Per discussione Maurizio Napolitano

2012/3/3 Fabrizio Carrai fabrizio.car...@gmail.com:
 Vista la notizia riportata, secondo voi potrebbe esistere una figura
 professionale di certificatore dei dati di OSM ?
 Un'azienda o un professionista, potrebbe certificare la veridicità dei
 dati OSM, ovviamente ad un a certa data ? Sarebbe economicamente vantaggioso
 ?


Quello che descrivi è uno dei dati scenari su cui ci si può inserire
su OSM per fare
business.
Su come certificare i dati però bisogna fare diverse analisi in quanto non siamo
davanti ad un processo ben controllato e definito.
Di questo se ne occupa la ricerca nel campo del VGI
(dove cerco anche di dare qualche contributo, ma non sono cosi' bravo).
Qui trovi diversi articoli
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Research

Segnalo questo
http://www.mdpi.com/1999-5903/4/1/1/
The Street Network Evolution of Crowdsourced Maps: OpenStreetMap in
Germany 2007–2011

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] Fino a che distanza è affidabile lo scostamento ?

2012-03-07 Per discussione Maurizio Daniele

Il giorno 07 marzo 2012 11:29, Alech OSM alech.hos...@gmail.com ha
scritto:


 mi domando dopo quanto va rieseguito lo scostamento

 **


Non credo esista una risposta univoca alla tua domanda. Magari alla tile
successiva, magari dopo diversi km.
Il fatto è che, come hai detto tu, la precisione varia molto da una
immagine all'altra, quindi anche lo scostamento.

Io solitamente procedo così: disegno tutto il disegnabile per un certo
tratto, poi apro il PCN e verifico lo scostamento degli oggetti che ho
disegnato, anche se spesso non è semplice perché il PCN nelle aree dove
lavoro io ha una definizione bassa (talvolta gli oggetti non sono nemmeno
distinguibili...)

-- 
Maurizio Daniele - maurizio.daniele (a) gmail.com
___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin

Il 07 marzo 2012 15:15, Carlo Stemberger carlo.stember...@gmail.com
ha scritto:


 Fammi un prezzo in Euro, che ti dico :)


0.50€/1€, l'unica cosa non vorrei dover gestire anche il gasdotto...


 Carlo


-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [Talk-it] [semi-SPAM] Gruppo di acquisto basato sul Bitcoin