from:"Martin"


On 23-10-06 14:24, Tom Hughes wrote:



Maybe it would be easy to avoid and maybe it wouldn't but until
we know what the actual problem is we can't tell and none of the
developers are likely to have such an old browser to reproduce
it even if they wanted to so unless you can provide more details
somehow it's not clear what can be done.



Apart from the info given before I do see an

Uncaught SyntaxError: expected expression, got '='

https://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/id-859874f88bc2e65931793d0d2edfb626917168cd008d86196e5b6fe2c88b39d5.js

:29:19029 




I've NoScript installed, but everything on OSM is trusted. Adblockers 
are disabled.


inspect info:

https://i.ibb.co/bzk1hTz/Screen-Shot-2023-10-06-at-15-17-58.png

Please let me know if there's any other info I can provide - and how.



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Re: [OSM-talk] software requirements for OSM Editor: Firefox


On 23-10-06 13:41, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 06/10/2023 12:12, Martin Trautmann wrote:

On 23-10-06 12:55, Tom Hughes via talk wrote:

No it was released in June 2020. October 2021 was the last
security patches.

To answer the original question there have been any deliberate
changes that I know but given the error it's entirely possible
that FF has fixed something in what CSP rules it checks for what
requests.


I doubt that since FF did not see any changes here for some time,
unfortunately. So it appears to be from an OSM editor's change.


I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

My hypothesis is that something in iD has started using a data URL
where it didn't before and that is triggering a latent bug in your
version of firefox (in that it is checking that URL against the
media-src rule in our security policy) while newer versions of
firefox are checking it against some other rule.


Thanks - that does clarify the issue. But as you say, "something in iD
has started" - so it's a change within OSM's editor, which does break
old systems.

Maybe it's a reasonable and necessary change for ID - but maybe it isn't!



Without knowing more about which load is being blocked it's not
really possible to say more and I might be totally wrong as I'm
just guessing from the limited information available.



I agree - but I don't know where else to report this malfunction. It's
obvious that one part of this bug is an outdated FF version. But that
does not mean that those have to be excluded.


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Re: [OSM-talk] software requirements for OSM Editor: Firefox


On 23-10-06 12:55, Tom Hughes via talk wrote:

No it was released in June 2020. October 2021 was the last
security patches.

To answer the original question there have been any deliberate
changes that I know but given the error it's entirely possible
that FF has fixed something in what CSP rules it checks for what
requests.



I doubt that since FF did not see any changes here for some time,
unfortunately. So it appears to be from an OSM editor's change.



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Re: [OSM-talk] software requirements for OSM Editor: Firefox


On 23-10-06 12:34, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:

Firefox 78 EST has reached end of life over year ago, see
https://endoflife.date/firefox 

It was released in October 2021.

I would strongly encourage to update it for security reasons.



I know - but there is certain software on this computer which does
prevent an update of the operating system, which is required for newer
FF versions.


And would not be surprised if random things are breaking.



They do - but maybe they do because of any need. Up to a short while ago
FF could handle the editor very well.


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[OSM-talk] software requirements for OSM Editor: Firefox

Have there been any changes for a minimum software version to use the 
openstreetmap editor?


I can still browse with my old firefox version 78.15.0esr, but when I 
try to edit anything, the editor's area remains empty.


Inspecting the pages names "The page’s settings blocked the loading of a 
resource at data: (“media-src”)."


id-container does not load any more, I suppose.

Anything from 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/id-859874f88bc2e65931793d0d2edfb626917168cd008d86196e5b6fe2c88b39d5.js 
causes an error here.




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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Richiesta informazione per "mappa sulla accessibilità nel Lazio"

2023-09-22 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Do., 21. Sept. 2023 um 19:19 Uhr schrieb Marcello Pelato via
Talk-it-lazio :

>
> Credo che ne esistano estrapolandone i dati tipo Wheelmap
> <https://wheelmap.org/>.
> Ma che io sappia non esiste una veste di Openstreetmap dedicata
> espressamente all'accessibilità, ma su questo vi sarà sicuramente qualcun
> altro in grado di risponderti con più pertinenza.
>
> Stupidamente ho cercato e trovato questo articolo La miglior mappa
> mondiale per l’accessibilità | OpenStreetMap Blog
> <https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2021/01/12/miglior-mappa-mondiale-accessibilita/?lang=it>
>
> Wheelmap
>
> Wheelmap is an online map to search, find and mark wheelchair-accessible
> places. Get involved by marking public ...
> <https://wheelmap.org/>
>
>
>
> La miglior mappa mondiale per l’accessibilità | OpenStreetMap Blog
>
>
> <https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2021/01/12/miglior-mappa-mondiale-accessibilita/?lang=it>
>
>
>


sì, anch'io conosco solo wheelmap, c'erano altre mappe ma sembra che non
esistono più:
http://www.wheelchair.accessiblemaps.org/
www.rollstuhlrouting.de

Si trova anche questa pagina nella wiki che potrebbe avere ulteriori
riferimenti:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelchair_routing

Ho inoltrato la richiesta anche sulla lista nazionale, ma non c'erano
ulteriore risposte:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2023-September/074981.html

Saluti,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] mapilio? (street-level imagery)

2023-06-01 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 31 May 2023, at 00:09, Niels Elgaard Larsen  wrote:
> 
> I often use Wikimedia Commons.
> There is an app that can both upload photos already taken and start a
> photo-app from the commons app.


+1, there is an app for iOS as well
https://apps.apple.com/it/app/wiki-uploader/id1271265731

in OpenStreetMap there is now an established specific tag:
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - 3 maggio 2023 ?

2023-05-03 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 3 May 2023, at 09:31, Marcello Pelato  wrote:
> 
> Ciao soliti mappatori, 
> 
> a meno che non si decida di spostare l'appuntamento per il meteo, oggi stando 
> nei paraggi, riuscirei a partecipare.


ottimo, allora confermiamo, magari si aggiunge anche qualcun’altro di questa 
lista :)
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - 3 maggio 2023 ?

2023-05-02 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 2 May 2023, at 11:59, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> Domani l'incontro alle 19.30 a Monti e' confermato?

al momento siamo solo 2 dei soliti ad aver confermato la presenza. Purtroppo le 
previsioni meteo non prospettano gran tempo domani. Vorresti spostarlo un’altra 
volta, ad esempio al 17/5 (il 10 non ci sono)?
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - 3 maggio 2023

2023-04-25 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 25 Apr 2023, at 11:16, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> Il mapping party e' spostato di una settimana a mercoledì prossimo, 3 maggio.

ottimo, grazie Flaminia, io ci sarò. 
https://osmcal.org/event/2019/___
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Re: [OSM-talk] bot proposal: shop values cleanup (low use values only, 1 used 250 times, three over 100 times, many used less)

2023-04-21 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Fr., 21. Apr. 2023 um 14:08 Uhr schrieb Andy Townsend :

> On 21/04/2023 12:17, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> We're actually talking about the "long tail" of shop values - genuine,
> perfectly descriptive, perfectly valid values, like "shop=whisky" that
> someone mentioned on IRC this morning. Changing that to something
> generic without recording the extra detail somewhere (and communicating
> to data consumers where that extra detail has moved to) is essentially
> low-grade vandalism - removing detail from OSM.  It devalues the hard
> work of the people who surveyed these things in the first place.

whole-heartedly agree, it also makes it hard to impossible to "organically"
introduce new classes/types via mapping, because as soon as you add it
someone monitoring some qa tool comes along and changes the specific value
to something established but not so specific or sometimes even not fitting.
These activities are sometimes called "gardening", but in OSM it isn't
completely clear what is weed and what is crop, so we better make it even
clearer that this kind of "gardening" should not be performed.
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Re: [OSM-talk] bot proposal: shop values cleanup (low use values only, 1 used 250 times, three over 100 times, many used less)

2023-04-21 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Fr., 21. Apr. 2023 um 11:19 Uhr schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> A rendering issue.
>
> Why not have a generic symbol for 'shop' and use that for any value of
> shop that you don't have a specific symbol for?
>


this is a deliberate decision, because it would provide positive feedback
also for shop values that are mistyped, at least this is the argument AFAIK.
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Re: [OSM-talk] bot proposal: shop values cleanup (low use values only, 1 used 250 times, three over 100 times, many used less)

2023-04-21 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Fr., 21. Apr. 2023 um 09:47 Uhr schrieb Jochen Topf :

> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:11:49PM +0100, Andy Townsend wrote:
> > To change "shop=veryrarevalue" where it was correct to
> > "shop=lessrarevalue"without preserving the detail somehow loses detail
> from
> > OSM and is therefore by definition a Bad Thing.  Some of the entries on
> your
>
> I disagree with that blanket "Bad Thing". It is much more likely that a
> general map will show shop=lessrarevalue with a specific icon than
> shop=veryrarevalue. So if you are using shop=veryrarevalue instead of
> shop=lessrarevalue you might lose detail in the database, but in
> practice you will gain detail in actual use.
>


what we actually want is both, a reasonably generic/specific value for a
"main" class, and potentially additional tag(s) for details.
Rather than just replacing shop=veryrarevalue with shop=moregenericvalue,
we should probably also add moregenericvalue=veryrarevalue

Cheers,
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - 26 aprile 2023

2023-04-16 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mo., 3. Apr. 2023 um 16:34 Uhr schrieb Flaminia Tumino <
flaminiatum...@gmail.com>:

> Ciao a tutt*,
> con le temperature miti ricominciamo a mappare in giro!
> Malgrado Monti sia abbastanza mappato, all'ultimo mapping party abbiamo
> trovato che ci sono tanti cambiamenti che non sono stati riportati su
> openStreetMap, quindi continuiamo in quella zona.
> Appuntamento come al solito ai piedi della fontana in piazzetta alle 19.30
> Qui sotto il link dell'evento:
>
> https://osmcal.org/event/2019/
>


ottimo, grazie Flaminia, io conto di esserci.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] rete ATAC, dati del comune

2023-03-30 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

nessuno? Perché mi sembrava dalla wiki che qualcuno fosse interessato al
trasporto pubblico...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface values - the third edition (review welcomed!)

2023-03-27 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mo., 27. März 2023 um 10:32 Uhr schrieb David Haberthür <
em...@davidhaberthuer.ch>:

> Ciao
>
> I added
> # translating German
> 'holz': 'wood',
> 'schotter': 'gravel',
> 'Gras_Laub': 'grass',
> to candidate list for the next one
>
>
> I’m my (Swiss German) opinion "Schotter" is much bigger than gravel, which
> is translated to "Kies".
> Gravel might be passable by bike, Schotter is the foundation under
> railways tracks.
> I wouldn’t want to ride my bike over Schotter!
>


there was a discussion recently about several of these terms, including
pebbles and gravel.
The term "Kies" usually means rounded, natural pebbles as can be found in
rivers, while there is also "gebrochener Kies" which means crushed stone.
"Schotter" also means crushed stone. You correctly point out that the
largest grain size is very relevant for usability, you can't cycle on 63mm
Schotter, but you can on 16mm (still not desirable, but a huge difference
to 63mm). There are various terms, and they are sometimes colloquially used
with a different meaning than the definition used by specialists, and they
may be imprecise without adding the grain sizes, so there will probably
never be an unambiguous translation in a single word.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface values - the third edition (review welcomed!)

2023-03-25 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 24 Mar 2023, at 22:35, 
> facebook_140f8d4e-9d8f-4d51-a5a7-320f53afc...@vollbio.de wrote:
> 
> Btw. I saw some German word: holz=>wood, schotter=>gravel, verdichtet=>paved 
> (it means "compacted"), Gras/Laub=>grass, pflasterstein=>cobblestones


verdichtet is actually „unpaved“ (compacted) and pflasterstein is usually sett, 
sometimes paving_stones but hard ever cobblestones
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[Talk-it-lazio] rete ATAC, dati del comune

2023-03-24 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Buonasera a tutti,

come tanti sanno, l'ATAC dal 2019 pubblica informazioni sulla rete e anche
sui mezzi in un formato machine readable (gtfs), ma purtroppo con licenza
CC-BY-SA 4.0 (sembra).
Il link è qui:
https://dati.comune.roma.it/catalog/dataset/c_h501-d-9000
(licenza in basso a sinistra). La curiosità che negli singoli dataset non
ci sono indicazioni di licenza e in basso il link "Licenza" porta alla
CC-BY 4.0 (no sharealike).
https://dati.comune.roma.it/od/it/legal.page

Sarebbe di chiedergli chiarificazioni se la licenza è cc-by-sa oppure
cc-by, e di considerare un rilascio compatibile con i termini di OSM (ad
esempio potrebbero rilasciare in IODL oppure CC-BY più waiver).

Qualcuno di voi ha già tentato di scrivere al comune per questi dati?
Qualcuno ha interesse a farlo insieme ora?

Una volta disponibile potremmo utilizzarli per importare informazioni
mancanti, per ora penso si potrebbero usare queste liste (create con i dati
cc-by-sa) per valutare la lcompletezza dei nostri dati, ma non si possono
estrarre le informazioni:
https://ptna.openstreetmap.de/results/IT/RM/IT-RM-ATAC-Analysis.html

Saluti,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed bot edit for surface=granite, surface=marble and similar

2023-03-15 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mi., 15. März 2023 um 14:01 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org>:

>
>
>
> Mar 15, 2023, 10:21 by dieterdre...@gmail.com:
>
> I'd prefer "surface:material" compared to "material", it is in modest use
> (800) https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface%3Amaterial
> because the "highway" represents not just the surface.
>
> material represents primary material of object and surface of
> road/path/square
> seems to fit here well.
>
> What would be benefit for surface:material over material anyway?
> Which other tags would be added that are infeasible with material?
>


not sure, maybe bridge? currently there are 10622 instances of material and
surface on the same object, the combination or surface with
surface:material (or surface.material or surface_material) is used 2200
times.
 https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface#combinations



If someone really wants they can add surface:curb:left=granite
>


this is where I think it could be subtagged,
material=stone  (180.000 uses)
stone=granite/sandstone/andesite/limestone/marble (minor organic use)
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/stone

surface is not just about a material (as is granite), it is about the kind
of shape/pieces, unhewn_cobblestone, paving_stones, compacted, grass_paver,
cobblestone, etc.
There are lots of different stones in the world, even more if you look at
the specific subtype, IMHO these should not be used as individual values in
the first order ("material")
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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed bot edit for surface=granite, surface=marble and similar

2023-03-15 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

I'd prefer "surface:material" compared to "material", it is in modest use
(800) https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/surface%3Amaterial
because the "highway" represents not just the surface.

Generally, maybe another subtagging step like "surface:material=stone"
"stone=granite" could make sense? It could also be used for material and
similar tags:
material=stone and stone=granite

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/material=stone (180.000)
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/stone (173 uses, of the kind we are
looking for)
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/stone_type (false friend, this is
about specific stone types (shapes and purposes) rather than material)

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/roof%3Amaterial=stone
...
Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)

2023-02-26 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 26 Feb 2023, at 10:19, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is also a fuel 
> in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops but petrol stations.


in Germany OPAL is the name of a fibre optic internet access standard (infamous 
because it was rolled out in big areas but then not attached to the internet 
for decades) https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optische_Anschlussleitung

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)

Am Sa., 25. Feb. 2023 um 22:07 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org>:

>
> So shop = laundromat → shop = laundry + self_service=yes would be needed?
>



it could be seen as equivalent, personally I would see a case for different
main tags because these are quite different features, better not intervene
in an automatic way (although admittedly there is 1000 times less usage for
laundromat one could also say that 40 laundromats are not worth
discussing). Maybe set up a proposal for laundromat? For 25% of all
laundries there is "self_service" information (and 85% of these are self
service=yes which could suggest that the default is self_service=no). I'd
rather go for amenity=laundromat (it has 7 uses now)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)

sent from a phone

> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> There is no point in manual drudgery here, with values clearly
> replaceable by better matches.
> 
> This values here do NOT require manual overview. If this cases will
> turn out to be an useful signal of invalid editing than I will remain
> reviewing nearby areas where bot edited.

forgot to say I applaud to this initiative, thank you for tackling this and 
documenting the process. I agree that there are many cases that can be fixed 
automatically, and your list shows good examples, but of course we must be very 
careful to not iron everything flat when there might be subtle differences. 
This is why it is important to have many eyes on such bot edits and document 
the details.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)

sent from a phone

> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> shop=eggs -> shop=food food=eggs
> maybe such migration would be a good idea?
> having top value for every single shop type specializing in a given food
> seems hopeless - we would need shop=pumpkin, shop=apples, shop=basil,
> shop=pierogi...
> That is nighmarish for data consumers.

maybe for these pumpkin or apple or basil shops a more generic category (there 
is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfarm ) can make sense, with a 
subtag for the kind of produce they sell, but food is very important for all of 
us and we do indeed mostly tag dedicated classes for these, like bakery, 
butcher, greengrocer, wine, deli, supermarket, convenience, so if there are 
dedicated pierogi shops I would tag them as this. You would not want to find 
them if you search for “food”, you search for pierogi if you wanted to find 
them. There is shop=pasta where I think pierogi could fit, “food” is too 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)

sent from a phone

> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> shop = laundromat → shop = laundry

I think the laundromat is about a diy place while shop=laundry can also be a 
service where you drop off your laundry and they’ll take care of everything. 
Wiki suggests adding self_service=yes for the former.

Cheers Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] replace some obviously mistaken surface values by their clear intended meaning

2023-02-11 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 11 Feb 2023, at 18:49, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> Nevertheless, as result
> map data quality will improve.


agreed for these cases, the problem is always when people become overeager to 
fix all kinds of values thereby “normalizing” what should not
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Re: [Talk-transit] [OSM-talk] Automated Populate/Update Problem

2023-01-28 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Welcome to osm! Regarding the "remove existing as final step": we generally
expect people to conflate new data with existing data, so you should not
remove the existing ones, but enrich them (including position acuracy if
possible) with your data, and only create new objects for things that
weren't mapped before.

If you haven't yet, read the guidance for automated edits
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits and follow the import
guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

2023-01-19 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Do., 19. Jan. 2023 um 15:33 Uhr schrieb John Whelan <
jwhelan0...@gmail.com>:

> Someone shoots out a dozen at minus 20c, two can cut off electricity to a
> city of a million people.  One or two you can replace quickly a dozen at
> the same time you're talking months to restore power.
>


you should not publicly write about it, because this will make it more
likely to happen...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

2023-01-19 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Do., 19. Jan. 2023 um 04:17 Uhr schrieb john whelan <
jwhelan0...@gmail.com>:

> Perhaps you could expand on the benefits of mapping them?
>


this is really not a question we ever ask ourselves regarding mappability,
while there are of course some answers to this for power infrastructure, it
is not relevant to determine whether they can be mapped. The question we
ask is: does it exist.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

2023-01-06 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 6 Jan 2023, at 23:34, Niels Elgaard Larsen  wrote:
> 
> Maybe we could maintain a list of tags that are practical permanent unique 
> identifiers. And then have a tool that for most objects could generate a url 
> (https or geo) that references that object using that tag.

“ref:vatin”, the VAT id number, is also such an id for businesses that is 
typically available on receipts and sometimes on websites.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

2023-01-02 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mo., 2. Jan. 2023 um 22:03 Uhr schrieb Andy Townsend :

> It's certainly possible (as I've said in that discussion) to use OSM IDs
> as "stable enough to do real work with" - I do it all the time.
>
> Can I guarantee that the shop at "No 55 Main Street" will always have
> the same OSM ID?  No, but it's unlikely to change.  Can I guarantee that
> in real life it'll always be the same shop?  Of course not - businesses
> close and open; buildings get knocked down and replaced.



I agree, with route relations it is even more likely that they do not
change (if the route does not change/cease to exist), because there is no
converting from node to polygon or back.

Cheers,
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - 14 dicembre 2022

2022-11-28 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

grazie Flaminia, io ci sarò...
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Porte di Roma: Spostamento WikiData-Link da POINT a MULTIPOLYGON ?

2022-11-18 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Gentile Klaus,

ti rispondo sotto tra le righe:


Am Fr., 18. Nov. 2022 um 15:05 Uhr schrieb Klaus E. Werner <
k...@kewerner.name>:

> scusate - sto seguendo il canale di OSM Lazio da tempo, ma non avevo mai
> tempo di incontravi in persona!
>


allora sei in buona compagnia, perché ci sono attualmente 68 iscritti, di
cui forse 3-4 sono venuti agli incontri (ok, pre-covid in certi periodi
siamo anche arrivati a 10 persone).
Comunque, stavamo ragionando proprio su questo due giorni fa, e cerchiamo
di rilanciare gli incontri fra poco. Se ti può interessare, saremmo lieti
di accoglierti  (nonchè tutti gli altri che finora non hanno trovato la
spinta per venire).



>
> Avrei una domanda tecnica (ed eventualmente filosofica) ...
>
> Sto lavorando a un link-up dei nostri dati istituzionali (banche dati
> per l'arte, fotografie, pubblicazioni) a monumenti fisici: piazze,
> edifici, "toponimi".
>
> Invece di fare un POINT per ogni monumento tipo "Circo Massimo
> 41.88590844 12.48573853" vorrei prendere il poligono.
>
> Allora OSM e' la fonte perfetta per la cartografia, compreso poligoni. E
> ha pure gli ID Wikidata per fare un uplink!
>
> Il link-up lo faccio attraverso Wikidata. Ovvero, la biblioteca e la
> fototeca nostra usano il sistema GND (tedesco) che riesco a mappare in
> Wikidata.
>
> Uso Overpass Turbo per l'export dei dati OSM e Wikidata SPARQL per
> l'export dei ID Wikidata.
>
> Bene.
>
> Per la massima parte degli edifici funziona. Qui un eesempio di lavoro:
>
> https://dlib.biblhertz.it/test
>
> Tra tanti altri problemi c'e' qulacosa che mi stupisce: quasi tutte le
> porte di Roma (P. Maggiore, P. SGiovanni, ecc.) non hanno l'edificio
> (Poligono) con il link Wikidata ma un POINT vagamente vicino con il link
> Wikidata.
>


questo è dovuto al fatto che l'oggetto in OSM che rappresenta il city gate,
è mappato come node (punto). Non sono sicuro se c'entra l'utente TWHB che
ha fatto edits ampi sulle mura, talvolta rivertibili, (ad esempio ha
mappato porzioni di mura "inventati", che non ci sono più, per "completare
il cerchio".




>
> Domanda: posso spostare il link a Wikidata (solo questo, magari anche
> wikipedia?) di questi 10-15 porte Romane dal POINT generico all'edificio
> vero e proprio?
>
> Per esempio, da:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2510803014
>
> a:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13394492



assolutamente sì. Quello che si deve fare è individuare la parte del
fabbricato che fa parte della "porta" (qui forse si entra nel filosofico,
come avevi anticipato, ma nell'esempio questo lavoro è già stato fatto,
esiste già un poligono), e spostare tutti i dati relativi alla porta dal
nodo al way (poligono).

Guardando l'esempio:
barrier <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:barrier?uselang=en>
sally_port <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=sally
port?uselang=en>
historic <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic?uselang=en>
city_gate <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic=city
gate?uselang=en>
name <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name?uselang=en> Porta
Maggiore
name:uk <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name:uk?uselang=en> Порта
Маджоре
old_name <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:old name?uselang=en> Porta
Praenestina; Porta Labicana; Porta Naevia
wikidata <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikidata?uselang=en>
Q751318 <https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q751318?uselang=en>
wikipedia <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia?uselang=en>
en:Porta
Maggiore <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Porta Maggiore?uselang=en>

per me "barrier=sally_port" è sbagliato e da togliere, forse lo era in
passato, ma attualmente non si trova nessuna barriera. Invece tutti gli
altri tags si possono (e devono) spostare. Anche se potrebbe sembrare
ridondante, cambierei (casomai) il valore di "building" da "yes" a
"city_gate", invece "historic=yes" (stato attuale) non ha molto senso e con
historic=city_gate sarà solo meglio.

saluti,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - novembre 2022

2022-11-14 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sì, entrambi 

sent from a phone

> On 14 Nov 2022, at 15:24, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ciao a tutt*,
> Martin e Alessandro confermiamo l'appuntamento di mercoledì?
> https://osmcal.org/event/1623/
> 
> Ciao,
> Flaminia
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Re: [OSM-talk] razed railways and other things that don't exist today

2022-10-27 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 27 Oct 2022, at 01:44, Zeke Farwell  wrote:
> 
> I support mapping old rail beds as railway=razed where they are visible in 
> forests, fields, and other open land.  These traces are often not visible to 
> those with an untrained eye and that's certainly an issue.  However, I draw 
> the line at sections going through buildings, highways, excavated areas, or 
> under water where there really are no visible traces by any reasonable 
> standard.

New buildings standing on top are often brought up as the point where predating 
features at the same spot should be considered disappeared, but this is not an 
universal criterion, indeed I very often see traces of former features in the 
gardens, entrance areas and basements of buildings. The more massive a 
structure was, the more likely you’ll probably find some remains.
Here’s an example of some former city walls visible in a shop window: 
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OnUPS1SpI3g/WPYNxl4EFXI/Jjg/nNTpu2-J4u4MYR1dDGPMhHP4zdd_n6IQQCLcB/s1600/17990776_1335536786482546_2806219406469521007_n.jpg
 (this is from the “first” city wall (severian) of which not so much is still 
visible today)

An example for more recent remains: some time ago you could still see in Berlin 
(before they actually reconstructed the current fake version) a few street 
lamps attached  to buildings that were formerly 
 used for illuminating the Wall, although the wall itself had been “completely” 
demolished. Not recognizable for everyone, but clearly visible traces if you 
knew to read them.

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Re: [OSM-talk] razed railways and other things that don't exist today

2022-10-26 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 26 Oct 2022, at 11:45, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> Note that when you found some gone railway
> mapped in OSM then it is useful
> 
> - edit OSM object to note which traces are left if any
> (ideally, it would be done by original mapper)
> 
> - or delete nonexistent sections without traces

what is the scale/resolution  for determining a “non-existent” section? If you 
do it too fine grained, it would be like mapping a dashed divider line, with 
yes/no alternating every 2 meters.
Is a former station a trace that is valid in this sense?

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[Talk-it-lazio] incontro mercoledì

2022-10-17 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Vi ricordo l’incontro mercoledì 18.30 a piazza di Spagna per un mapping party. 

https://osmcal.org/event/1623/

saluti 
Martin

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[OSM-talk] RFC: Two new extensions for the wiki: Log in via openstreetmap.org and vote via a GUI

2022-10-13 Per discussione Martin Fischer


Hi everybody,

I wrote two small MediaWiki extensions for wiki.openstreetmap.org: one 
to let you log in via your OSM account and one to provide an easy to use 
in-wiki GUI for proposal voting.


I also set up a small demo wiki so that you all can try both extensions out:

https://demo-wiki.push-f.com/

You can leave your feedback using both extensions on the demo wiki, or 
alternatively here on the mailing list.


Cheers,
Martin


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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Populate/Update Problem

2022-09-28 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Welcome to osm! Regarding the "remove existing as final step": we generally
expect people to conflate new data with existing data, so you should not
remove the existing ones, but enrich them (including position acuracy if
possible) with your data, and only create new objects for things that
weren't mapped before.

If you haven't yet, read the guidance for automated edits
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits and follow the import
guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - settembre 2022

2022-09-21 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

io ci sarei, lo facciamo?

saluti,
Martin
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[OSM-talk] Regio-OSM und Dietmar Seifert

2022-09-17 Per discussione Martin Trautmann


Hallo,

weiß jemand etwas zum Verbleib von Dietmar Seifert?

Auf E-Mails antwortet er nicht,
seine letzten Postings sind von 2020,
https://regio-osm.de/listofstreets/index.html liefert nur noch Fehler
502 (Bad Gateway)

Seine Hausnummernauswertungen scheinen noch zu laufen. Aber die sog.
wöchentlichen Auswertungen sind auch schon teils Monate alt (März 2022)

Schönen Gruß
Martin Trautmann

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[Talk-it-lazio] incontro locale stasera, ore 20.30

2022-07-06 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

vi riccordo l’incontro stasera:

https://osmcal.org/event/1405/

Ciao Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali il 22 giugno 2022?

2022-06-20 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

grazie Flaminia…

sent from a phone

> On 20 Jun 2022, at 14:22, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> Ciao a tutt*,
> ho spostato al 29 giugno per dare la possibilità a Martin di partecipare, 
> ecco qui il link dell'evento aggiornato.
> 
> https://osmcal.org/event/1405/
> A presto,
> Flaminia
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - domani

2022-04-26 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer




sent from a phone

> On 26 Apr 2022, at 18:58, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> Per me sarebbe meglio, altrimenti se vogliamo fare alle 20 io posso giovedì.


in realtà ci sono già altre persone quindi direi di lasciare alle 19.30 per 
questa volta, poi vediamo. 

Ciao Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Incontro dei mappatori romani e laziali - domani

2022-04-26 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sì, nel senso contavo di andarci. Non ho ancora visto altri che contavano di 
venire. Forse converrebbe spostare alle 21 allora?

Voi che dite?

Ciao Martin 

sent from a phone

> On 26 Apr 2022, at 16:18, Flaminia Tumino  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ciao a tutt*,
> volevo sapere se domani è confermato, se sì volevo dirvi che io arriverò 
> intorno alle 21.
> 
> Flaminia
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[Talk-it-lazio] indoor map

2022-04-24 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Vi segnalo questo sito, sembra carino per vedere dove ci sono dati indoor:

https://indoorequal.org/#map=11.53/41.9028/12.489

Ciao Martin 


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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] ripresa incontri mappatori romani e laziali, ultimo mercoledi del mese

2022-04-12 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Grazie Flaminia, ottimo, ho aggiornato anche la pagina wiki da lunedì a
mercoledì.

Se siete curiosi, ma finadesso non avete mai avuto occasione di venire,
datevi una spinta ;-)
Ovviamente sono benvenuti anche i neofiti, che saremmo lieti di rispondervi
alle forse numerose domande che sorgono...

Ciao,
Martin



Am Di., 12. Apr. 2022 um 13:46 Uhr schrieb Flaminia Tumino <
flaminiatum...@gmail.com>:

> Ciao,
> come concordato ieri sera ho provveduto ad aggiungere il prossimo evento,
> si ritorna ai nostri piccoli incontri orario aperitivo per mappare, una
> volta al mese.
> Abbiamo scelto al momento di incontrarci l'ultimo mercoledì del mese,
> dunque per aprile, il 27.
> Il link lo trovate qui sotto:
> https://osmcal.org/event/1305/
>
> a presto
> Flaminia
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[Talk-it-lazio] Fwd: [Talk-it] Italy outdoor map on www.freemap.sk

2022-04-11 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Buongiorno,

vi inoltro questa notizia dalla lista nazionale. Freemap Slovakia ha esteso
la copertura della loro mappa (che esiste da tanti anni), sul territorio
Italiano:
https://www.freemap.sk/?map=16/42.020797/12.395411=X

Come vedete si tratta di una mappa non mirata all'automobilista, piùttosto
al tempo libero, escursionismo, cultura, ecc.

Ciao,
Martin


-- Forwarded message -
Von: Martin Ždila 
Date: Mo., 11. Apr. 2022 um 08:30 Uhr
Subject: [Talk-it] Italy outdoor map on www.freemap.sk
To: 


Hello,

Our Freemap Slovakia outdoor map has been recently extended to cover whole
Italy and it also gained improvement of hill-shading and contours from
TINITALY DEM. You can see it at
https://www.freemap.sk/?map=6/42.407235/13.150635=X

Features of the outdoor map:

   - includes outdoor activities like hiking, cycling, skiing, horse riding
   - based on OpenStreetMap data
   - updated minutely (in the best case, depends on the volume of the
   changes and requests)
   - supports HiDPI displays (4K, retina, ...)
   - HiDPI export for printing to PDF, SVG, PNG, JPEG
   - open source <https://github.com/FreemapSlovakia/>

You can find list of www.freemap.sk features at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Freemap_Slovakia.

Enjoy

Best regards
-- 
Martin Ždila <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/*Martin*>
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
http://www.freemap.sk/

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[Talk-it-lazio] stasera incontro mappatori

2022-04-11 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Vi ricordo il nostro primo incontro "post-pandemico" stasera alle ore 20,
FormiCowo, via delle Sette Chiese 186. Al momento siamo in 3, ma se vi
aggiungete saremmo di più:

https://osmcal.org/event/1287/

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-hr] Freemap Slovakia Outdoor map covering also whole Croatia

2022-04-11 Per discussione Martin Ždila

Hello dear friends,

Did you know about Freemap Slovakia Outdoor map which covers also whole
Croatia? You can find it at
https://www.freemap.sk/?map=8/45.174293/15.356140=X

Features of the map:

- includes outdoor activities like hiking, cycling, skiing, horse riding
- based on OpenStreetMap data
- updated minutely (in the best case, depends on the volume of the changes
and requests)
- supports HiDPI displays (4K, retina, ...)
- HiDPI export for printing to PDF, SVG, PNG, JPEG
- open source (https://github.com/FreemapSlovakia/)

You can find list of www.freemap.sk features at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Freemap_Slovakia.

Enjoy

Best regards
-- 
Ing. Martin Ždila <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/*Martin*>
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
http://www.freemap.sk/
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Fwd: incontri dei mappatori romani e laziali

Ottimo, ho inserito l'evento sul sito di OSM:

https://osmcal.org/event/1287/

Una buona anima ha fatto un ottimo lavoro a creare un servizio apposita per
gli eventi di OSM.
Se volete, potete segnalare la vostra presenza lì.

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it-lazio] incontri dei mappatori romani e laziali

Signore e signori, ragazzi, è passato molto tempo da quando ci siamo visti
ultimamente in persona. Vorrei proporre di riprendere gli incontri, sospesi
per Covid, e tenuti solitamente di lunedì.

Potremmo riprendere con frequenza mensile o bisettimanale, secondo il
vostro interesse, sono possibili tutte le date, ma per avere una proposta
concreta propongo

Lunedì 11 aprile 2022, ore 20
al FormiCowo, via delle sette chiese 186
https://leca7.it/formicowo/
(da confermare)

Rispondete qui se potete venire, se troppo poco preavviso, se non va bene
lunedì in generale, se ore 20 è troppo tardi o presto, ecc.

Se la data si conferma metteremo l'evento anche nella wiki.

Spero a presto,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Cercasi qualcuno che vuole presentare OpenStreetMap a volontari

Am Mi., 6. Apr. 2022 um 13:53 Uhr schrieb Flaminia Tumino <
flaminiatum...@gmail.com>:

> Ciao Martin,
> io a fine gennaio 2023 dovrei avere qualche mattinata/pomeriggio libero
> anche se è difficile dare conferma della mia disponibilità al 100% con
> tanto anticipo, però per il momento anche io mi metto a disposizione.
>
> Grazie e a presto,
> Flaminia
>


ottimo Flaminia, mettiti d'accordo con Alessandro :)

grazie a tutt'e due,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Cercasi qualcuno che vuole presentare OpenStreetMap a volontari

Am Mi., 6. Apr. 2022 um 13:26 Uhr schrieb Alessandro Frigeri <
alessandro.frig...@gmail.com>:

> Martin,
>
> grazie del messaggio e dei dettagli, ottima iniziativa.  Sono a
> disposizione, compatibilmente agli impegni/trasferte di lavoro.
>
> Alessandro
>



Ciao Alessandro,

grazie a te! Ho inoltrato la tua risposta alla persona della Sapienza, e
credo che ti contatterano fra breve. Tra altro hanno fatto questo sito che
rende visibile tutte le biblioteche della Sapienza su OSM:
https://opac.uniroma1.it/SebinaOpacRMS/article/biblioteche-sapienza/biblioteche?locale=eng

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it-lazio] Cercasi qualcuno che vuole presentare OpenStreetMap a volontari

Buongiorno a tutti,

Mi è giunto una richiesta della Sapienza, e forse qui c'è qualcuno che
vuole aiutare.

A Sapienza ospitiano da anni volontari del servizio civile. Progetti
interrotti a causa della pausa COVID, ma che da gennaio 2023 ripartiranno.

Per i Volontari, la Sapienza organizza della formazione, prevalentemente
erogata dagli interni, ma affidata, in alcuni casi, ad esperti esterni; a
esempio è stato là un wikipediano (Luca Martinelli) che ha illustrato il
progetto ai ragazzi.

Gli è venuto in mente che sarebbe molto bello se potremmo fare anche noi un
intervento formativo; si tratterebbe di tenere un minicorso
Openstretmap per neofiti.

La formazione verrà erogata a gennaio prossimo, ma va indicato un titolo
con una bozza sui temi trattati.

purtroppo il lavoro non potrà essere retribuito; non è previsto un budget
per i relatori.

I volontari del servizio civile sono giovani e per lo più molto interessati
agli interventi formativi.

L'intervento richiesto dovrà avere la durata di una mattinata, 4, massimo
5h. L'obiettivo è l'alfabetizzazione, perché sicuramente la maggior parte
di loro ritiene che mappe sul web voglia dire solo google maps.

Sarebbe da puntare quindi più sulla presentazione del progetto e su di una
illustrazione delle procedure base di editing.

Se vi interessa, fatevi avanti :)

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] come ottenere le coordinate di "oggetti" da openstreetmap?

2022-01-22 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

la lista di tutti i tags utilizzati si trova in taginfo:
taginfo.osm.org

nella wiki di OpenStreetMap si trovano delle definizioni dei tags
wiki.osm.org

e i dati si possono scaricare su
planet.osm.org

oppure da un servizio che offre estratti (tematici o geografici). Ce ne sono 
svariati, e le puoi trovare nella wiki di OpenStreetMap. In generale dovresti 
trovare tutte le informazioni nella wiki.

Ciao Martin 
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[Talk-it-lazio] Civitas Vaticana

2022-01-21 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Vi vorrei chiedere 2 cose sul nodo del Vaticano, la prima riguarda il tag
"place", la seconda il  valore del tag "name".

Si tratta di questo nodo:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/424311883

Discussioni pregresse (in inglese):
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/115513285

Come lo vedete?

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] OSMit 2021

2021-09-15 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 15 Sep 2021, at 12:24, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> 
> Manca poco per registrarsi a FOSS4G_IT/OSMit 2021 [1] che si terrà online dal 
> 19 al 21 settembre!

se ho capito bene, a Roma c’è solo il 21 in presenza, piazza Marconi 15

Ciao Martin 
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[Talk-it-lazio] OSMit 2021

2021-09-15 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Vi inoltro questo invito alla conferenza annuale:

Ciao a tutte e tutti,
Manca poco per registrarsi a FOSS4G_IT/OSMit 2021 [1] che si terrà online dal 
19 al 21 settembre!
Dati i vincoli legati al COVID-19, quest'anno non è stato possibile organizzare 
un unico evento in presenza, ma c’è la possibilità per chi vuole di seguire i 
lavori di persona presso diverse sedi che alcune Università, Enti e 
Associazioni hanno gentilmente messo a disposizione.
Di seguito le città nelle quali è possibile seguire l’evento in presenza: Bari, 
Genova, Milano, Perugia, Roma, Torino, Trento e Padova.
Maggior informazioni sulle sedi si trovano sul sito.
Deadline per le registrazioni [2] per poter accedere alle sedi è il 16 
settembre, per le quali bisogna essere in possesso di Green Pass, come da 
normativa nazionale.
Come è tradizione di tutte le edizioni sono previste una giornata dedicata alle 
Comunità del software geografico libero, tra cui OpenStreetMap (domenica 19 
settembre) che terrà un mapping party dalle 10 alle 12 dove mappiamo il 
progetto Improve Asti sul Tasking Manager [3], con il supporto di OSMer della 
comunità Piemontese di OpenStreetMap. Ci troveremo nella stanza FOSS4G-IT [4] 
(non richiede registrazione).
Ci vediamo a FOSS4G-IT!
Buona mappatura,
Anisa
[1] https://foss4g-it2021.gfoss.it/index.html
[2] https://cryptpad.fr/form/#/2/form/view/ … N-XXaWBvY/
[3] https://osmit-tm4.wmcloud.org/projects/76/
[4] https://cvs5133.ergonet.host/b/ani-kfl-ayc-0a



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Re: [Talk-it] layer con confini comunali per BRouter-web

2020-12-27 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 26. Dec 2020, at 18:19, Fabio Bettani  wrote:
> 
> Purtroppo, però, si tratta di una libertà relativa alla sola attività 
> sportiva (ciclismo agonistico).
> Le pedalate in tranquillità sono un'attività motoria, non sportiva, e quindi 
> non ricadono (o almeno, non ricadono esplicitamente) in quanto affermato in 
> quel passaggio delle FAQ.



mi sembra difficile da valutare la differenza tra attività sportiva e motoria, 
dipende dalla forma di chi la pratica. Comunque, pare che il gover si ha posto 
questo compito...


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Warning about not mapping military areas

2020-12-24 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Di., 22. Dez. 2020 um 10:12 Uhr schrieb Edward Bainton <
bainton@gmail.com>:

>
> Dangerous: I think there's a risk that by saying, "please follow local
> laws" (rather than saying nothing), we open ourselves to accusations of not
> policing "our" mappers properly. You can imagine the military attaché of
> some country emailing OSMF to say, "That request is very weak. I think you
> should toughen it up. In fact, here is a list of mappers whose edits I want
> you to revert because, ***by your own policy***, they should not have
> made them in breach of our laws".
>


question is, what would OSMF do when the Chinese government approaches them
and says, "this is the list of mappers that have illegally added things to
OSM, please help us identifying them by providing their email addresses,
etc." and what would they do if it was the French government? Or the
British? Imagine they claim it is for finding terrorists, or somehow
connected to national security. Or simply an offense. We would likely not
be able to reject any of these when coming from the British authorities (or
from someone else proxied through them). Are there board rules how to deal
with such cases? Has it ever happened so far? As far as I know (not really
far actually) in Britain there is the legal possibility of gag orders, i.e.
if the thing is considered "secret" authorities can order OSMF to not even
speak about it.



>
> A warning along the lines of "Mapping military sites is sometimes illegal
> under laws of that country" would be ok, but I would much prefer not even
> to do that. I haven't been on the lists long, but I don't recall anyone
> saying "I've just been interrogated for mapping this base without realising
> that was illegal - please don't do it!" On my information there's no
> problem to solve - just worries about "what ifs" - and so we should say
> nothing.
>


In Italy I have once seen a sign which said something along the lines of
"military area, survey forbidden, also by memory", while it usually says
something like "no photographs". I would bet that surveying military
installations in great detail is probably forbidden in any country, but the
level of detail that is allowed may vary by large. It is also very common
to not be able to take photographs.

For instance I would guess that mapping the facilities that are blacked out
in this image could get you into trouble:
https://yorkshirecnd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/sigint-cryptologic-platform-768x575.jpg

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] OSMyBiz.osm.ch

2020-12-23 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mi., 23. Dez. 2020 um 15:50 Uhr schrieb Protoxenus :

> geht das nicht ohne Google zu programmieren?
> Wir werben damit, dass wir unabhängig sind, und dann werden Schriften von
> fonts.googleapi.com geladen.
> Das gehr doch bestimmt auch mit "freien" Fonts, oder?




die Google fonts sind frei, man kann sie auch runterladen, konvertieren
(weil Google es einem nicht zu leicht machen will), und auf den eigenen
Webspace hochladen.

Gruß
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

2020-12-20 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 21. Dec 2020, at 00:05, Clay Smalley  wrote:
> 
> Va téléphone à la police.


France is the spearhead against discrimination and gender disparity, in case 
you missed it, the Paris administration just recently got fined for putting a 
disproportionately high number of women in management positions:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/world/europe/paris-too-many-women-fine.html

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] OT: ortofoto mapbox aggiornate

2020-12-19 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:17, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  wrote:
> 
> quelle Mapbox sembravano un poco offuscate


sì, al livello di zoom più alto aggiungevano un effetto blur, credo 
involontariamente, li avevo scritto un bug report una volta, ma non ricordo 
bene l’esito ;-)

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Re: [Talk-it] Tags per cycleway

2020-12-19 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 16:13, Marcello  wrote:
> 
> c'è solo una proposta, dove per cycleway riporta bicycle=designated e tutte 
> il resto no, quindi l'etichetta implicita sarebbe foot=no e non yes.


sì, hai completamente ragione, highway=cycleway implica foot=no

Per consentire il percorso ai pedoni dovresti aggiungere foot=yes altrimenti è 
no

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Re: [Talk-it] Tags per cycleway

2020-12-19 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 16:13, Marcello  wrote:
> 
> A prescindere dalle etichette che si utilizzeranno vorrei capire se quanto 
> riportato nella pagina wiki [1] è corretto o completamente sbagliato, 
> soprattutto nel riquadro riassuntivo c'è scritto:
> Implica
> bicycle=designated
> foot=yes
> motorcar=no
> cycleway=track
> 
> Secondo questo assunto una way etichettata con highway=cycleway dovrebbe 
> avere quella serie di etichette implicite, poi però nell'esempio per la pista 
> solo ciclabile fa aggiungere cycleway=track.

il tag cycleway=track non va insieme a highway=cycleway, perché indica una 
pista ciclabile implicita (non disegnata in OpenStreetMap).
Si mette insieme ad altri highway come highway=tertiary per indicare la 
presenza di una pista ciclabile.
Al mio parere in questo caso è meglio non mettere il tag e disegnare la pista 
con un proprio way (perché si tratta di una carreggiata indipendente).

Ciao Martin 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

2020-12-18 Per discussione Martin Constantino–Bodin




Hello,

I can read at the date of this mail (how can you sign a moving
text ??) :
«Power dynamics in OSM are controlled by a dominant
contributor profile: white, Western and male. This power
dynamic has led to a communication style which includes
misogynistic, hostile, targeting, doxing, unfriendly,
competitive, intimidating, patronising messaging, which is
offensive to us and forces many of us to remain as observers
and without the confidence to participate actively.»

I'm bored of reading hate speech against groups of people
defined by their color skin, origin or gender.


Er… Please read this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

This call is not a hate speech against white-people. It’s a call to 
recognise the issue and respond to it.


Regards,
Martin Constantino–Bodin.

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Re: [Talk-de] Karte vom IFZ ohne Quellangabe

2020-12-17 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer

sent from a phone

> On 16. Dec 2020, at 11:33, Hauke Stieler  wrote:
> 
> Wou wou wou, Moment! Die haben innerhalb von unter zwei Stunden geantwortet 
> UND die Website gefixt? Es gibt tatsächlich noch IT-Abteilungen/Entwickler 
> die 
> es drauf haben. Schön zu sehen, dass die Attribution nun stimmt.

stimmt, das war echt blitzschnell. Ich habe auf solche mails auch schon nach 6 
Wochen erst oder nie eine Antwort bekommen. Und bis es gefixt wurde ist ein 
Jahr keine Seltenheit, bei den ganz großen dauert es wohl noch länger, Apple 
hat viele Jahre gebraucht, Facebook sträubt sich immer noch, und bei Mapbox 
kann man sich auch streiten.

Beim IFZ hatten sie es wohl wirklich nur vergessen/übersehen ;-)

Gruß Martin 
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Re: [Talk-GB] "GPS trace" tracking county boundary

2020-12-14 Per discussione Martin Wynne


On 14/12/2020 17:27, Edward Bainton wrote:

Any thoughts on why when I enable "public GPS traces" in iD, I get one that
near enough exactly tracks the LA boundary South Kesteven:Peterborough (at
Deeping St James)?



Someone took their tracker with them when "Beating the Bounds"?

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_the_bounds

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

I have now changed this from "driveway" to "service road" with access 
for motor vehicles as "destination", i.e. for access to properties only. 
I don't think it can be "private" because there are two properties along 
there, Noverton Cottage and Noverton Farm.


I have also added the gate at the public road.

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.28186/-2.42748

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

2020-12-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 13. Dec 2020, at 16:16, totera  wrote:
> 
> In situazioni dove il toponimo Istat non è quello comunemente usato l'ho
> comunque mantenuto con il tag official_name.


credo sarebbe meglio un tag “name:istat“ perché ISTAT non è la fonte autorevole 
per nomi (sono i comuni).

Ciao Martin 



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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

2020-12-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 13. Dec 2020, at 16:13, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> suggerisco di non rimuovere il nome non più in uso, ma di cambiare il tag in 
> "old_name", è uno dei pochi casi dove per ragioni storiche, secondo me, può 
> continuare ad esistere.


sono d’accordo, sia per toponimi che per strade è utile conservare vecchi nomi 
in old_name

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


On 13/12/2020 13:45, Nick wrote:

what do people think of Overlapping ways i.e. one is a road and 
a duplicate is a bridleway? Not elegant and something I would not 
normally suggest but...


Hi Nick,

When I've tried that in the past I've been jumped on for breaking a 
fundamental rule of OSM that one feature should have only one entry in 
the database.


Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Noverton Farm - driveway-becomes-track


On 13/12/2020 09:06, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) 
sounded familiar.


A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long 
distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary 
footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme 
Valley. It was very nice *but* the footpaths were in an appaling state 
of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to 
scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire 
fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some 
particularly badly-maintained footpaths.


Hi Nick,

The footpaths in the area, or at least the ones walked by me, are now no 
worse than in other areas of Worcestershire. Here is Noverton Farm with 
stile:


 https://85a.uk/noverton_stile_1280x800.jpg

The heavy lifting appears to have been done by the local Ramblers 
volunteers:


 https://85a.uk/noverton_ramblers_1280x800.jpg

Others nearby have been replaced with galvanised kissing gates, again 
with the Ramblers doing the actual work.


The state of the footpath between them tends to depend on the time of 
year and the state of the crops. Farmers tend not to regard their legal 
requirement to reinstate footpaths within 14 days as being at the top of 
their to-do list.


cheers,

Martin.


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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

As the OP on this, all I can say is that in this part of the world, 
which includes that farm, that roadway would be called a "farm drive" 
(not "driveway") with double gates and a nameboard where it leaves the 
public road.


If you referred to the "track leading to the farm" the farmer might take 
offence after laying and rolling hardcore along it to make it suitable 
for all vehicles. A "track" is a narrow muddy lane between fields, and a 
farm at the end of one would typically be an old-time tumbledown affair, 
not one ready to receive delivery vans from Amazon.


However, my post was not about the naming, but about the rendering on 
the standard OSM map. Where at zoom level 15 driveways are not rendered, 
but lower-grade tracks and bridleways are. It doesn't make sense to a 
user of that map, although I can see the intended logic behind it.


The simplest solution would to remove the driveway tag and simply leave 
it as "service road". But that then causes it to be rendered on the 
standard map at the same width and colour as a minor public road, which 
is equally confusing to a map user. However, I notice that the entry 
gates have not been mapped, so adding those to a basic service road may 
be the best solution, and I will do that.


thanks,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


On 12/12/2020 21:30, David Woolley wrote:



Your first problem would be establishing a funding model for it; OSM, in 
general, is not funded to a level that would support large scale end 
user use.




Hi David,

Small-scale end use would be a start. But folks need to find it in the 
first place.


Andy obviously already has some hosting on a server, and I do too. So 
funding for small-scale use would not be a problem.


Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


On 12/12/2020 17:37, Andy Townsend wrote:

That allows maps such as 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=52.28208=-2.42987 
to display it as a public bridleway (in blue)




Hi Andy,

That's a great map! It seems you have already done what I would be 
interested in doing - to provide a better map for walkers and others 
showing footpaths, stiles and gates, etc. much more prominently.


What I'm wondering is how the typical recreational country walker would 
find that map, or get it on their mobile phone app in place of the awful 
Google maps? It's a lot of work to create if no-one ever uses it?


One thing I would ask for is more prominent rendering of benches. They 
appear only at maximum zoom on the OSM standard map, and only as a very 
small symbol. I don't suppose younger OSM mappers roam the countryside 
looking for somewhere to sit and eat their lunch, but at 72 years of age 
I do (cheese & pickle sandwich and a hard-boiled egg, since you ask)!


Something I feel strongly about, and would be a prime motivation for 
doing something about myself, is to map and provide rendering for the 
area:highway tag:


 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:area:highway

Country walkers often need to include a stretch of public road in a 
planned walk, and it is very difficult to discover whether a road will 
be safe to walk along. Sometimes there are wide verges, but sometimes 
high banks or close hedges with nowhere to leap to out of the way of 
approaching traffic. It's necessary to look on Google Streetview before 
setting out, but not all country roads are covered. At present even apps 
which do render it (I believe OsmAnd) can't do much because it is not 
commonly mapped between the hedgerows along country roads. Legally the 
entire area between the property boundaries on each side is the public 
highway.


Having recently been very nearly taken out by a van while walking 
(legally!) along an A road, it's an omission I want to do something about.


Local highway authorities are required by law to provide a "Public 
Footpath" sign where a public footpath joins a road. But they are not 
required to provide any safe means of reaching it.


cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:

Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
by hosting something from OSM.

> I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
> standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
> (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
> logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475

Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.

I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
creating my own map does appeal to me.

Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg

It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
than a "track" - note the double gates:

https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8

cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


On 12/12/2020 13:16, Mark Goodge wrote:
Out in a rural area, nearly everybody would call that length 
of road, especially one that links a public highway with private farm 
tracks, a track or access road.


Hi Mark,

I'm not sure about that. In this part of the world, a roadway which 
links from a public road to a private residence is called a "drive" (not 
usually "driveway") irrespective of the length, or what other tracks or 
footpaths connect to it, and also irrespective of its legal status as a 
public byway or public bridleway.


If it's a public highway for all, it's just called a "road" or "lane".

cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


On 12/12/2020 13:03, Nick wrote:
For this particular example it is clearly complex as it was shown as a 
'permissive' footpath (other non vehicular access was along the 
designated bridleway). As this is in England and given that the driveway 
seems to have just been changed to 'designated', I assume the change 
made to the map allowing 'other access' along the private driveway could 
be contested by the landowner?




Hi Nick,

I'm not clear what you are saying there?

The driveway is a public bridleway which subsequently passes through a 
farmyard. The farmer has provided a permissive by-pass footpath for 
walkers to avoid the farmyard.


The driveway has been broken into 3 sections and given separate pro-ref 
numbers (not by me).


cheers,

Martin.


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[Talk-GB] Publishing a linked dataset

2020-12-12 Per discussione Martin - CycleStreets




Hi everyone,

I'm currently looking at a dataset with a view to it being published, that 
defines a set of routes (various streets and paths), not physically marked 
on the ground, i.e. they are subjective rather than objective. The aim is 
to publish this as a dataset that then other people using OSM could then 
easily use in routing engines to favour the specific paths. In other words, 
have some way of referencing the preferred ways easily, avoiding the need 
for any kind of GIS-based map-matching.


The data is currently just an overlay manually drawn over a digital map 
background, but the underlying map hasn't actually been used in any way to 
decide on the network or check things back home. There are no IP issues in 
my view - it's just a set of route preferences. The lines can be redrawn 
from scratch if necessary.


Do people have any tips on how best to create and maintained a linked 
dataset?


I've been considering a few options:

- Load all the data in the area in QGIS using a Geofabrik extract, and 
manually remove everything that isn't relevant, leaving the desired network 
only, from which the OSM IDs can be extracted


- Use some kind of QGIS process to match the locations with some kind of 
key/value filtering, with some kind of 10-20m buffer.


Do people think it's better to publish a list of OSM IDs or as GeoJSON, 
which would obviously contain the IDs but also have the benefit of visually 
showing the routes?


I'm aware obviously the data could become unmatched over time, as OSM 
changes, e.g. a way is split or paths added that add more detail.



Martin, **  CycleStreets - For Cyclists, By Cyclists
Developer, CycleStreets **  https://www.cyclestreets.net/

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track


p.s. here's a screenshot of that. It looks silly:

 https://85a.uk/missing_driveway_zoom15.png

Martin.

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[Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track