Re: [Talk-us] Map roulette challenges - Missing named roads [VA, NJ, NY, MN, SC]
Martijn and everyone, A couple of years ago I did some research on named driveways that I was seeing in Virginia. County GIS officials told me that, in Virginia, any "driveway" with three or more residences had to have a name. TIGER had those names. So did the county maps. I know that sometimes TIGER names driveways and private drives with the name of the road that goes past that associated residence. Those probably should be considered errors. But in Virginia, at least (I don't know about other states), named driveways often are correct. Just something to think about when you're developing the Maproulette challenge. Best wishes, Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street #A Santa Monica, California 90403 310-597-4040 M: 310-663-3699 From: Martijn van Exel Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 12:04:53 PM To: Kevin Kenny Cc: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc); talk-us Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Map roulette challenges - Missing named roads [VA, NJ, NY, MN, SC] I did a fair amount and noticed similar things — some of the suggestions concern private drives, others are not corroborated by available aerials. But I did find a decent ratio of fixable things, and as you go through the tasks, you get a better sense of which ones are likely to be fixable. The rest you can just mark as too hard or not an issue. As for TIGER fixing, I was inspired by Mike N’s posting about his TIGER fix up effort and figured you can use MapRoulette to do some of it. A comprehensive review of TIGER roads is probably best done using his Tasking Manager approach, but to review just the ‘main’ roads MapRoulette is quite usable. I created a challenge for Utah as a proof of concept and working my way through the tasks: https://maproulette.org/mr3/browse/challenges/3610 If you want to help out, great. If you want to recreate this challenge for a different area, let me know. The overpass query can easily be adapted. Martijn On Feb 13, 2019, at 10:31 AM, Kevin Kenny mailto:kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com>> wrote: I've done some of the MapRoulette items for this project, but frankly I'm not that good at it. For the stuff nearest me, most of the missing roads are either too new to show on the orthos (which are updated on a rolling 4-year cycle) or else are old platted rights-of-way that are now abandoned. I find that I can't do much with them without boots-on-the-ground knowledge. I was therefore able definitively to dismiss a few of them with: "I've been there. There's no road," but that's been the exception rather than the rule. Finding that sort of thing in the MapRoulette items that I have taken on makes me wonder what sort of data quality we'll get out of this effort. Frankly, I've found TIGER review (and this part of the world is still very much a TIGER desert!) looks to be more fruitful. I find the NYSDOT database to be an extremely useful cross-check on names and purported alignments, though. Many ways shown in TIGER around here were digitized from pencil sketches of census workers and can be hundreds of metres from the actual locations, but NYSDOT usually has its information derived at least crudely from survey data. But perhaps I'm being too much of a perfectionist. On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:51 AM Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) via Talk-us mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org>> wrote: Hi, Thanks Kevin for the tip! I have updated the instructions to call out the NYS ortho online imagery layer to look at for the NY challenge. Also, after some more fiddling with the roads dataset for the project, I have also reduced number of roads to check and updated the New York challenge here: New York: https://maproulette.org/mr3/admin/project/2346/challenge/3593 Thanks again for the tip! Oisin Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Your receipt from OpenStreetMap US, Inc. #2872-9455
Dear folks, Is this real? I don't remember setting up recurrent charges for membership. If it is real, it's OK. Charlotte [] <http://openstreetmap.us> [] <http://openstreetmap.us> [] Receipt from OpenStreetMap US, Inc. Invoice #65B5A32-0002 Receipt #2872-9455 Amount paid $20.00 Date paid September 30, 2018 Payment method \ Summary Sep 30 Sep 30, 2019 Regular Membership 1 $20.00 Amount paid $20.00 <https://dashboard.stripe.com/emails/receipts/invrc_1DGDWACdT6sMUFuorTGDJopB/pdf>Download as PDF You're receiving this email because you made a purchase at <http://openstreetmap.us>OpenStreetMap US, Inc.. OpenStreetMap US, Inc. partners with Stripe to provide secure invoicing and payments processing. Stripe, 510 Townsend Street, San Francisco CA 94103 Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady <> <> <> ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] What is a sockpuppet (sock puppet?)
Hello, Sorry I'm not up on the latest OSM slang, but what is a sockpuppet (sock puppet?)? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 Mobile: 310-663-3699 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Low-quality NHD imports
Hello, all, Clifford makes some very good points. In the West, particularly, those little intermittent streams are important landmarks. Particularly when hiking in a featureless area, such as pinyon-juniper forest, a trail direction may say something like, "turn right after crossing the third drainage." And, during the summer monsoon, you want to know where they are because they might flash flood. The arid West has many intermittent drainages. Whatever they are named (arroyo, stream, creek, etc.), it is important to include them. Charlotte At 07:56 PM 10/13/2017, you wrote: On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Christoph Hormann <<mailto:o...@imagico.de>o...@imagico.de> wrote: On Friday 13 October 2017, Kevin Kenny wrote: > > I remain unconvinced that importing or not importing has had any > significant impact on whether people improve the map manually. There are a number of possible measures that could be considered for improving old NHD imports: * removal of unnecessary tags to reduce the baggage mappers would have to deal with when working on the data. * removal of small unnamed streams which are not necessary for the overall river network connectivity in areas where the geometric accuracy is poor by current standards (and it is therefore usually easier for mappers to newly trace those streams instead of trying to improve the inaccurate data) Unnamed streams are helpful to people hiking in the forest areas by giving a landmark for navigation. From areas I'm familiar with, there are thousands of unnamed streams. They are unnamed because civilization just hasn't reached it. For example, we have Logan Creek nearby. If it was in a national forest it would most likely be unnamed. * creating maproulette challenges for fixing inaccurate waterway classifications - in particular waterways tagged 'waterway=stream' but with a name containing 'Creek' or 'River' will often qualify as waterway=river. Same for artificial waterways with 'waterway=ditch' but names containing 'Canal' or ther other way round. When I see creek in the name, it implies stream, at least in areas I'm familiar with, then again that's where I usually map. I'm not sure where you are from but I never consider telling you how to classify something just by the name. Maproulette could be handy if we had NHD classification differences between what's tagged in OSM and NHD. * creating maproulette challenges for unconnected waterways. +1 * adding missing 'intermittent=yes' to waterways in imports where this was not properly set based on the feature codes. +1 -- @osm_seattle <http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us>osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 Mobile: 310-663-3699 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM
My goodness, all this anxiety! Why are you feeling that you have to justify what you map, just because someone is studying it by gender? Charlotte At 10:10 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote: On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 08:25:33 +0200 Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com> wrote: > One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female hygiene > products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map that, > without access to women's toilets ? > > The real question for me is are men more likely going to map shop=car > than shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the > stereotyping) > will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ? > will a roman catholic map a mosque ? > will a non-dog owner map leisure=dog_park ? > > in short: will we map everything we see or do we map only our > interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything or do we only see > (and map) things we are conditioned to ? > > This is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are > pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs. I know I map what I see (or more precisely, what my camera captures). If it doesn't have a sign out front, I don't map it. To take an example from the midwives vs. strip clubs debate, the phone book lists seven midwives and/or midwife groups in the Spokane area. Of those, three are attached to hospitals and one to a community-health clinic, and so wouldn't have signs. Two are operating out of private homes and don't have signs (and I wouldn't map them if they did, just like I don't map lawn care or computer repair businesses operating out of private homes). The last one is in the 95% of the city I haven't yet photo-mapped. The phone book lists zero strip clubs in the Spokane area. Despite that, I've found and mapped one strip club: it was on a major street and had a clear sign out front. Yes, there's a bias in my mapping, but it's a bias towards "things identifiable from the street." I'm more likely to map a car store than a clothes store, because car stores are generally not found inside shopping malls. Playgrounds beat pubs, because every playground is visible from the street. And this non-dog-owner didn't map the dog park, because it was already mapped by the time I got started. -- Mark ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM
Nick, This is a study, not a manifesto. All this researcher is doing is looking for gender bias, IF it exists, in OSM mapping. So, I have to ask, what would you do if she does find certain areas of gender bias in OSM and reports them? Would you be angry and quit mapping? Would you ignore the report? Or would you make subtle changes in your mapping to avoid that bias? The choice is yours. Charlotte At 02:53 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote: We are, mostly, volunteers. Therefore I think we should map whatever takes our fancy and should not feel obliged to spend our time/money on mapping that we do not want to do willingly. If the location-based service providers find that certain info is missing that they would like to have, then maybe they could pay someone to collect the data, or even better, do it themselves. If you can convince mappers to alter their mapping habits, well and good, but trying to shame or threaten them into doing so will just destroy whatever community there is. Your statement (highly paraphrased) of "If you don't map what I want you to map, then nobody is going to want to use your data" may not be the best way to win people over to your cause. ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [HOT] Surveys and studies
John, Actually, I would have to disagree with you on that point. Having worked in survey research, I know that each survey is carefully constructed as to length and order of questions. A kind kind of grouped survey, as you described, would give an experience to respondents that would be different from the one the researcher wanted. I just would like to see something that told me that the supposed research really is, for example, from Zoe at Nottingham. Using her university email would have been advisable. At least there would have been a good chance that it was legit. And, maybe, requiring an institutional email is the best and simplest way to go. That way it likely is real academic research. Otherwise, anyone could post a survey, even someone who did not wish OSM well, and who wished to use the "honest" opinions for negative purposes. Anyway, that's my take on it. Charlotte At 01:20 PM 9/4/2017, you wrote: At Statistics Canada they have a concept of respondent burden. Basically it means you try to limit the number of questions you ask people whilst still trying to get the answers in. Is this information available from another survey? May I suggest a more formal arrangement where a survey is organised say every three / six months and researchers submit their questions to be included in the survey? This is done for a number of surveys at Statistics Canada and is a useful way to include one or two additional / supplementary questions to a survey. The advantage to the people running the studies is hopefully a wider set of respondents making their surveys more statistically valid. The advantage to the mappers are fewer messages in the mailing lists and fewer surveys asking to be completed. At the very least I'm sure Zoe and Laura could see if the data from their surveys could feed the other. There are other things that could be done such as random sampling then following up with the randomly selected sample this reduces self selection. Thoughts? Thanks John ___ HOT mailing list <mailto:h...@openstreetmap.org>h...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM
Follks, It would be nice if we could get some confirmation that this is a real research projects being done by an actual researcher at Nottingham. If it is legit, why is the return email address from Gmail rather than the university? Is there some mechanism that we can set up to confirm that the research is for real, such as running it through the US board first? I don't mind contributing to a survey. I just want to be sure it is for real. Charlotte From: Zoe Gardner <zoegardn...@gmail.com> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org ...snip... talk...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM Dear OSM talk subscriber I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in geospatial crowd-sourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is available to location-based service providers that use OSM as their primary geospatial database. The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the map. However, the actual consequences of this bias remain little explored or reported. By collecting information about contributors to OSM, which can then be analyzed along with their editing patterns, the impacts of this bias might begin to be measured and therefore better understood. I have therefore published an online survey designed to collect information directly from OSM editors and I would like to invite as many of you as possible to participate. The survey is anonymous and takes a couple of minutes to complete. If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like to participate in the study, please click on the link below, which will take you to the Bristol Online Survey website where you will find more information and an opportunity to participate in the survey. As a small incentive, at the close of the survey in a few weeks' time, 60 respondents will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon voucher. To participate in the survey, click on the link below: <https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles>https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about the way participation biases impact on crowd-sourced maps will enable new strategies to be developed to address any resulting voids in the geospatial information provided by amateur mappers. In turn this could strengthen the role played by platforms such as OSM in urban planning and sustainability, and could raise the profile of the important mapping work that you all do. In the meantime, if you would like to know more about me, my research activities or the project, please visit my University webpage (link below) and do not hesitate to get in touch directly or via the OSM messaging service. <https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner>https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner Thank you Zoe ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: MEDIA REQUEST/DEADLINE TOMORROW MORNING
Hello, all, I promised that I would answer this request and find out how they are using OSM. It seems the organization is involved in food policy, specifically providing expertise and technical tools to those involved in food policy in cities. They said they used OSM in a report "because we were discussing new technology and how it is being used to improve the food system. We discuss how these types of maps can be used to monitor a variety of situations, from air pollution to even rates of depression. This helps individuals become more aware of the environment which they live. They also provided their mission statement: "The New York City Food Policy Center at Hunter College develops intersectoral, innovative and evidence-based solutions to preventing diet- related diseases and promoting food security in New York and other cities. The Center works with policy makers, community organizations, advocates and the public to create healthier, more sustainable food environments and to use food to promote community and economic development. Through interdisciplinary research, policy analysis, evaluation and education, we leverage the expertise and passion of the students, faculty and staff of Hunter College. The Center aims to make New York a model for smart, fair food policy." Web site: <http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/>http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org I directed them to Learn OSM, because they wanted screen shots, and Learn OSM has many on its web site. Charlotte Hi Charlotte, Sorry about that! We used Open Street Map in our report because we were discussing new technology and how it is being used to improve the food system. We discuss how these types of maps can be used to monitor a variety of situations, from air pollution to even rates of depression. This helps individuals become more aware of the environment which they live. Does that make more sense? Best wishes, Cameron --- Cameron St. Germain Research Associate, NYC Food Policy Center at Hunter College 401-533-2674 <mailto:came...@nycfoodpolicy.org>came...@nycfoodpolicy.org On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Charlotte Wolter <<mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com> wrote: Cameron, Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I got that from your web site, but how did you use the OSM photos? Is OpenStreetMap something that your organization uses regularly? How do you use us? Charlotte At 07:33 AM 7/12/2017, you wrote: Hi Charlotte, Here is our mission statement and the link to our website. I hope that provides all information needed. Should you need anything further, feel free to reach out with questions. Mission Statement: The New York City Food Policy Center at Hunter College develops intersectoral, innovative and evidence-based solutions to preventing diet-related diseases and promoting food security in New York and other cities.ÃÂ The Center works with policy makers, community organizations, advocates and the public to create healthier, more sustainable food environments and to use food to promote community and economic development. Through interdisciplinary research, policy analysis, evaluation and education, we leverage the expertise and passion of the students, faculty and staff of Hunter College. The Center aims to make New York a model for smart, fair food policy. Website: <http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/>http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/ Thank you! Best, Cameron St. Germain Research Associate, NYC Food Policy Center at Hunter College <tel:(401)%20533-2674>401-533-2674 <mailto:came...@nycfoodpolicy.org>came...@nycfoodpolicy.org On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Charlotte Wolter <<mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com> wrote: Cameron, Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã I got your email because I'm on the press list for OpenStreetMap (and I'm a retired journalist). Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã I think your best bet for high-quality images is our training web site, Learn OSM (<http://www.learnosm.org> <http://www.learnosm.org>http://www.learnosm.org). All the work there is public domain and free to use. Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Could you tell me more about the Food Policy Center? OpenStreetMap's New York City group is very involved in local projects. They might be able to help with any mapping questions you have or provide support in geographical analysis of food issues. Often, OpenStreetMap organizes what we call mapathons, group mapping sessions, usually around a particular issue. Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Ã Good luck on your current project. Best wishes, Charlotte Wolter Dear OpenStreetMap, I am a research associate and editor for NYCFoodpolicy.org and for the syndicated health column, Diet Detective. We are working on a story on Health Technology and the Food System, as well as a second report on feeding urban populations (seeÃÆ <http://www.nycfoodpolicy.o
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: MEDIA REQUEST/DEADLINE TOMORROW MORNING
OK, I'll check it out and report back. --C At 01:11 PM 7/6/2017, you wrote: Charlotte, you got that because you're on the <mailto:pr...@openstreetmap.us>pr...@openstreetmap.us email list. We get requests like that occasionally. It's probably legit. On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Charlotte Wolter <<mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com> wrote: Hello, all,         Did anyone else get this? Anyone know if it is legit? Charlotte To: <mailto:bo...@openstreetmap.us>bo...@openstreetmap.us, <mailto:pr...@openstreetmap.us>pr...@openstreetmap.us Cc: <mailto:cplat...@hunter.cuny.edu>cplat...@hunter.cuny.edu, Alexina Cather <<mailto:alex...@nycfoodpolicy.org>alex...@nycfoodpolicy.org> Dear OpenStreetMap, I am a research associate and editor for NYCFoodpolicy.org and for the syndicated health column, Diet Detective. We are working on a story on Health Technology and the Food System, as well as a second report on feeding urban populations (seeà <http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/new-report-health-tech-food-insecurity/>hereà for the first report on hunger and tech). Please send three high-resolution images of your app and/or website by tomorrow morning (Friday 7/7). If you are unable to we understand and will use screenshots instead. Kind regards, Cameron --- Cameron St. Germain Research Associate Hunter College NYC Food Policy Centerà <http://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/>NYCFoodpolicy.orgà Twitter: @NYCfoodpolicy Facebook: @NYCFoodPolicy Instagram: nycfoodpolicy Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 <tel:(310)%20597-4040>+1-310-597-4040 <mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: MEDIA REQUEST/DEADLINE TOMORROW MORNING
Hello, all, Did anyone else get this? Anyone know if it is legit? Charlotte Authentication-Results: cdptpa-imsmta10 header.DKIM-Signature=@openstreetmap.us; dkim=pass Authentication-Results: cdptpa-imsmta10 x-tls.subject="/C=US/ST=California/L=Mountain View/O=Google Inc/CN=smtp.gmail.com"; auth=fail (cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:delivered-to:delivered-to:dkim-signature:sender :mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-unsubscribe; bh=H68TQtPgpo9e2E08idgsz80c+3HKJ551hy9fdF8fy/A=; b=dTUBIIWE3UrG63suPZ1W8RJOhLOm1EFO4WXiy1TTNzKq6YH8whAjvxZ7qhW7fOVV6V f7jHPAAG+paJBQD4CdwxJPNXDhRJDNAtV9v+eIVH3kmX+Vg/Q97FhFZV9Bf5HQU85EOq d6oIrtxcURCRm7HFspdjkHwLbMaGQWDpl0RWTVczAy3qarkIBlnoGjDIliD5a4jD2CO5 XeB3BzuExyPyGyh89M878qPl3Bx1/tjvzwqk7T/BEzfcZSbn7UxY1ylqEHFkQ8iA27Ig HAgidmoeNQRGdP4MFGL45vusPCGGtM5eORgcPvdLTqrcMqXE4eY5EzDUFhR7aSRyIj4c m6/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzyO2fYW9tjOgwuv5FLkguYRBGA3vBxcrR+w5onumVZYd22H8gd epvrK12O+urmr0YidcFTZnslMNl+cGSYI7hpfirUuQ== X-Received: by 10.13.220.66 with SMTP id f63mr44686573ywe.264.1499364987694; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:16:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-To: techl...@roadrunner.com X-Forwarded-For: techlad...@gmail.com techl...@roadrunner.com Delivered-To: techlad...@gmail.com X-Received: by 10.84.217.219 with SMTP id d27mr29730378plj.180.1499364986728; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1499364986; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=deamU+JV/8yM9C//yaohXwBT4/cwnJBdFLp8kXq2G2OB1eanHvhsB8jxDZLzgXvUb5 vhq7mti0jhx1u3ujQa8hBT+SOILORfe3ZfuCRHmAxXwrTCo5f810hkxDbaWjcdcD/Sj5 aQWGPWIRtLrhDrSE+52uEta75uBCsH8QepR+jyfDK9AHs3M3E3LQ8vQMp4BojDddgfvY Bu/zCPZTAlZztBD6sw+5J4byDRVEA0yApqzgzxGHRfiNHwb0qhCHO+Mx8EQ+MZWZ7neW YajE1Hf30hmyMezYxBOHef3zfNnLyXe0gz+BX2l3fOcqd9fNm+oxttOGLkctO/ZMTb33 jItQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post:list-id :mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:arc-authentication-results:arc-message-signature :sender:dkim-signature:delivered-to:arc-authentication-results; bh=H68TQtPgpo9e2E08idgsz80c+3HKJ551hy9fdF8fy/A=; b=CdqJt2FnLA7LWe+B2lzVt8uQPlT3m3YaNVBV/CetqnYDHZqMmb+avGGEbLAWeE+aCv jymzaidnQ5ll9185v7OL707R5UXG8kNlGDV3JBBQUZ8JcvmatxYhxTmKj29Rol7U4LNQ 7ei4Sle7SfVzZoYRZdtYC4D91G8zO2OSkRns/erdM1HLeQ06RFLwnFjxeBNQqrzwlyia cMyrFpDVXf8DgYVff6ospO6Cy1CCqR6tqk1bRiQLVVBKA9bv6Wh0XjarjYLwGL+dbSrv zD5slgfu5b3Z9S34kEQujpr5t0u6sgFvZf2MeDWoZWIGF6mNngZAXSy7NA21RXBHVSKZ fGdA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@openstreetmap.us header.b=WARmx3az; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of srs0=h2+o=6j=openstreetmap.us=press+bncbaabb6h47hfakgqespao...@bounce.secureserver.net designates 97.74.135.191 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=h2+o=6J=openstreetmap.us=press+bncbaabb6h47hfakgqespao...@bounce.secureserver.net Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@openstreetmap.us header.b=WARmx3az; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of srs0=h2+o=6j=openstreetmap.us=press+bncbaabb6h47hfakgqespao...@bounce.secureserver.net designates 97.74.135.191 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=h2+o=6J=openstreetmap.us=press+bncbaabb6h47hfakgqespao...@bounce.secureserver.net Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=openstreetmap.us; s=google; h=sender:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-unsubscribe; bh=H68TQtPgpo9e2E08idgsz80c+3HKJ551hy9fdF8fy/A=; b=WARmx3azSDxx//XGH29qThGO70ysvReJ3iNASA4wq741jJPyvgvR/60IzYZ48GOTU2 8neB/v0a+Uqw7Pa5krXBUREIut4qt4X82VE7V68/UOzA+Pr9iretkHvoL77H7vLjM9HA dGkao8ytQsAA/QYKPRDBvNb3liwWXxisMDXMQ= Sender: pr...@openstreetmap.us X-Received: by 10.107.5.130 with SMTP id 124mr1050135iof.70.1499364984709; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: pr...@openstreetmap.us X-Received: by 10.99.99.193 with SMTP id x184mr26710260pgb.13.1499364984282; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:16:24 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1499364984; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=VRv2eI4Zt7195DZJc7ADMYgwnFJARBuz0LCEWvBjJcMni/CfA5Qc7je1jCK28yOpVI
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: NJ mass road demotions?
I have a similar situation. I have tagged many numbered, but unpaved, roads on the Navajo reservation as "tertiary." They aren't "unmaintained," because they are plowed by the Navajo Nation, but with varying degrees of regularity. The whole road system there has been getting better steadily, but there still are roads that are questionable as "tertiary," despite having numbers. So, I'm regularly downgrading some of those to "unclassified," as I discover them. I think that is the best practice for this area. Charlotte On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Richard Fairhurst <<mailto:rich...@systemed.net>rich...@systemed.net> wrote: It would be really helpful if there were one single place where US common practice was explained, succinctly (not like the verbal diarrhoea[2] on the US Roads Tagging page) and unambiguously, and in a way that accords with international usage in OSM. As an auslander it's not my job to do it, but perhaps someone sensible on this list might like to? Is there *anyone* that actually can speak to what *is* common practice in the US? When I've asked, I've always drawn a lot of replies and come away more confused than before. Of course, a lot of what I map is in a gray area where 'tertiary,' 'residential', 'unclassified' and 'track' tend to have blurred boundaries, and 4WD vehicles are strongly recommended. The road where I'm parked in <https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14041171575>https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/14041171575 is a signed and numbered county highway, but I couldn't bring myself to tag it 'tertiary.' ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] TIGER response to inquiry on named driveways
From: Charlotte Wolter <techl...@techlady.com> Subject: Fwd: Re: Why do driveways end up with street names?? Charlotte, We have updated our files based on your request. Here is the response from our updating branch: "This request has been completed, and there are no more named S1740 features (driveways) in Campbell, VA. Those particular features either had the feature name removed, or the feature was deleted from the database altogether." This update will be reflected in our next release of the TIGER/Line shapefiles at the end of summer. Sincerely, Anne Anne O'Connor Geographic Customer Service Branch Geography Division U.S. Census Bureau 4600 Silver Hill Road - Mail Stop 7400 Washington, D.C. 20233-7400 (301) 763-1128 Subscribe to updates about the TIGER/Line Shapefiles and other geographic products on our website: http://www.census.gov/geo/ -- From: Charlotte Wolter <techl...@techlady.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 2:51 PM To: GEO Tiger (CENSUS/GEO) Subject: Re: Why do driveways end up with street names?? Anne, After some communication with Campbell County officials about the named driveways issue, I received a reply from Dale Woods, their GIS director (see below), who says that the named driveways are not in their local data. I have passed this along to the OpenStreetMap US email list. I know that you will look into this, I would appreciate an update, even if it takes a long time, because it's a huge chore to change all those driveways manually. Maybe, if we know the details of the issue, our data guys can come up with some way to change the driveways en masse. OpenStreetMap also does imports of TIGER data about every other year to correct known issues. Thanks for your help. Best wishes, Charlotte Wolter From your description, it sounds like you are looking at Census, TIGER data. Census adds these names to driveways, using the same name as the road they come off of. This is something Census does for their use. Campbell County does NOT duplicate road names. Virginia has a statewide road database in which localities provide data updates. Campbell County participates in this process. Statewide street data can be viewed and/or downloaded from: <http://vgin.maps.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=741d0fb937ee420680eb500250acc4ef>http://vgin.maps.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=741d0fb937ee420680eb500250acc4ef Additionally, County data can be viewed from our County Website at: <http://gis.worldviewsolutions.com/campbell/account/logon>http://gis.worldviewsolutions.com/campbell/account/logon Dale Woods GIS Program Manager Campbell County, VA (drwo...@co.campbell.va.us) At 08:42 AM 4/4/2017, you wrote: Charlotte, Thank you for your inquiry. We gather all of our road data from local sources, we then test that data, and, if it passes, we add it to our TIGER database. We also make sure that the data works well with the rest of our data. That said, we sometimes have residual issues with the data. In this case, the problems with named driveways came from the partner files we received during the MAF/TIGER Accuracy Improvement Project (MTAIP) in the mid-2000s. MTAIP was used to update TIGER, and a majority of the time we uploaded the information into our database expecting it to be correct and accurate from the source, but in some cases it was not. Staffing, timing, and software restrictions during those years also provided some issues, and we sometimes weren't able to run a 100% QC on a file, or target the problems as easily as we can now. Looking at the area in question, we ran this county through MTAIP in September 2005, and those named driveways were introduced then. There was actually a note made "Many driveways added, some with names" at the time. You noted an issue in Campbell County, VA, if you know of any other areas where this kind of problem is wide-spread, please let us know and we'll take a look. This may take some time, but we do make every effort to continue to improve the quality of our files. Sincerely, Anne Anne O'Connor Geographic Customer Service Branch Geography Division U.S. Census Bureau 4600 Silver Hill Road - Mail Stop 7400 Washington, D.C. 20233-7400 (301) 763-1128 Subscribe to updates about the TIGER/Line Shapefiles and other geographic products on our website: <http://www.census.gov/geo/>http://www.census.gov/geo/ -- -- From: Charlotte Wolter <techl...@techlady.com> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 20:37 To: GEO TIGERweb (CENSUS/GEO) Subject: Why do driveways end up with street names?? Hello, TIGER staff, I am a member of OpenStreetMap abd mpa mostly in the United States. There is an issue with TIGER data that continually creates problems, particularly in rural areas, The issue is that, many times, driveways, particularly long ones in rural areas, end up w
Re: [Talk-us] Editing tasks in Detroit
Horea, The photo on the Goithub page is Haggerty Road, which is pretty far west of downtown. I'm surprised that it even is inside the city limits. Do you have any guidance on which areas need mapping? Charlotte At 11:12 PM 4/20/2017, you wrote: Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY1PR07MB238031FD132A64B72884026AED1A0CY1PR07MB2380namp_" Hi all, My Telenav colleagues in our mapping team are starting new mapping projects in the Detroit area. We are planning some pretty extensive improvements in areas like (turn) lane information, road naming and geometry, oneway and turn restrictions. We opened a Github repository where we describe each project in more detail: <https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues>https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues . You can find out more about editing practices and sources we use there. We very much welcome discussion and suggestions there, or just get in touch via talk-us or OSM message. Horea Meleg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Last word on named driveways
:-) At 10:04 AM 4/22/2017, you wrote: No offense intended! I know the Census TIGER and OSM have similar but not entirely congruent goals. On Apr 22, 2017 11:00, "Charlotte Wolter" <<mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com> wrote: Paul,         Having been a Census-taker myself, I know the process. Actually, it would be very unusual for an adress checker (done one year before the Census itself) to change a street name. We were given printouts that were our guide as we checked addresses. If something didn't match, such as if a new apartment building was constructured, we had to do a special form. I never had a street-name change (Santa Monica is well-established), but I imagine someone doing a suburban area might have some. Now, supposedly we got our information from someone who actually lives there. But, that means trusting that the person you are talking to that day knows what they are talking about. So, there's lots of room for error. In 2010, we were instructed to add a GPS point near the front door of each dwelling unit or apartment building. However, we were not given guidance on how close to stand. I suspect that is one reason why we have so many zig-zag streets. :-) Charlotte At 01:18 AM 4/22/2017, you wrote: On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Charlotte Wolter <<mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com> wrote: ààààAfter my inquiries about the rash of named driveways in Campbell County, Virginia--these are driveways that end of with the name of the street they intersect--I finally gotàa reply from the county GIs director (pasted in below). He says inequivocally that it is a TIGER issue, not a local one. Probably no surprise. I know opinions vary on TIGER. That's not a giant surprise.àAnd it's not so much that opinions on TIGER vary so much as the quality of TIGER itself is highly variable.àI've seen places where TIGER was amazing and there wasn't much to do other than add speed limits and turn lanes.àBut Portland, Oregon comes to mind as an area where it was pretty obvious that they digitized someone's hand-drawn map, which was drawn on a napkin with a fine-tip ballpoint pen in the rain, and was like trying to get a cat to cooperate with being rubbed backwards to sanitize. à ààààHe also add a couple of data souces, his own county and the state of Virginia, that could be useful. ààààI sent this to TIGER and asked that they update us on any fixes for this. à Given the inconsistency of TIGER data, I would not be surprised if no automated effort will be ever attempted to deal with that dataset ever again. That said, there are tilesets out there that show TIGER data that thas a newer name or geometry than what OSM has, though this itself has its pitfalls. I've noticed a tendency for such datasets to false-positive on a name because OklaDOT renamed something and whatever Census- taker mapped it in TIGER kept the old name. ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us  Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 <tel:(310)%20597-4040>+1-310-597-4040 <mailto:techl...@techlady.com>techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [HOT] iD issues?
Mike, Some updates were made to iD some weeks ago. Apparently, somehow, it made clicking on a feature to select it more difficult. I use Firefox, and usually have to click 3 or 4 times to get an individual item selected. I wrote to the iD team about that, and Brian Housel replied, saying that they know about the issue and it is being worked on. Sounded like it had been frustrating them, too. I also suggested they make the "automatic scroll" area around the outside edge of the screen smaller. Automatic scrolling can be good, but the scrolling border is about an inch wide now. Sometimes, when I'm doing an edit, it takes off scrolling. To guard against that, I have to stay closer to the center of the screen than usual. Brian thought that was a good idea. Of course, they all are volunteers like we are, so it may take them some time to diagnose and fix the issues. Charlotte At 03:46 PM 4/17/2017, you wrote: Update: perhaps it is just coincidence, but iD appears to be fully working in IE, however, I know I have successfully used iD in Chrome in the past. Mike On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Mike Thompson <<mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>miketh...@gmail.com> wrote: I am preparing for a mapathon and am reviewing the instructions for the participants to make sure they are still current and to re familiarize myself with iD as I normally us JOSM. In the iD editor I am able to add and tag new features, but I cannot select existing features in order modify their geometry or their tags, and I cannot get the context menu to appear. I am using Chrome on Windows. Does anyone have any advice or idea as to what I might be doing wrong? Mike ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Last word on named driveways
Hello all, After my inquiries about the rash of named driveways in Campbell County, Virginia--these are driveways that end of with the name of the street they intersect--I finally got a reply from the county GIs director (pasted in below). He says inequivocally that it is a TIGER issue, not a local one. Probably no surprise. I know opinions vary on TIGER. He also add a couple of data souces, his own county and the state of Virginia, that could be useful. I sent this to TIGER and asked that they update us on any fixes for this. Charlotte Hello, From your description, it sounds like you are looking at Census, TIGER data. Census adds these names to driveways, using the same name as the road they come off of. This is something Census does for their use. Campbell County does NOT duplicate road names. Virginia has a statewide road database in which localities provide data updates. Campbell County participates in this process. Statewide street data can be viewed and/or downloaded from: http://vgin.maps.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=741d0fb937ee420680eb500250acc4ef Additionally, County data can be viewed from our County Website at: http://gis.worldviewsolutions.com/campbell/account/logon Dale Woods GIS Program Manager Campbell County, VA Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] More about named driveways in Virginia
Hello all, I emailed Paul E. Harvey, director of community development, Campbell County, Virginia, about the "named driveways" issue. He gave me more information about road conventions in Virginia. 1. I noticed that the driveway from the highway to Rustberg High School had a four-digit number. Harvey replied, "VDOT IVirginia Department of Transportation) assigns those four digit numbers to roads that serve public facilities like schools." 2. Campbell County requires that any driveway that serves three houses or more be named. Residents choose the name, so it can be a family name. 3. The named driveways that I am seeing is a different issue and may, indeed, be a mistake. He has asked the county's GIS technician to look into it. This kind of information makes all of our mapping better. I will add this to the wiki, but it would be great if this information were available as a pop-up or some other mechanism while people are mapping. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways
Thanks, Bill, Very interesting. Certainly there are other such local "strategies" to deal with long driveways. There are other local customs that mappers should know, such as that state roads in some states have SR before the number, not the state abbreviation I've made that mistake myself here in California and certainly haven't corrected them all. It would be nice if there were a way to pop up some kind of warning about local anomalies for mappers. Maybe that is something for the future. Charlotte At 02:15 PM 4/4/2017, you wrote: There are jurisdictions where named driveways are required if the house is out of sight of the street. E.g. Cumberland Co. Maine, the newishcountywide E911 dispatch requires street names be unique across county and that houses not within sight of the road have a named PVT WAY that becomes their official address for E911. (Unclear how postoffice and UPS feel about that.) Requiring a clear number sign at the street might have been sufficient but they've chosen to mandate identical PVT WAY signage instead. ( looks like none of those have made it into OSM yet.) Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways
kqucNcA:10 a=IMbFeJ_nmuUA:10 a=d6Sr02UbQdMA:10
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X-Cloudmark-Score: 0
X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.106:25
Charlotte,
Thank you for your inquiry.
We gather all of our road data from local sources, we then test that
data, and, if it passes, we add it to our TIGER database. We also
make sure that the data works well with the rest of our data. That
said, we sometimes have residual issues with the data.
In this case, the problems with named driveways came from the
partner files we received during the MAF/TIGER Accuracy Improvement
Project (MTAIP) in the mid-2000s. MTAIP was used to update TIGER,
and a majority of the time we uploaded the information into our
database expecting it to be correct and accurate from the source,
but in some cases it was not. Staffing, timing, and software
restrictions during those years also provided some issues, and we
sometimes weren't able to run a 100% QC on a file, or target the
problems as easily as we can now.
Looking at the area in question, we ran this county through MTAIP in
September 2005, and those named driveways were introduced
then. There was actually a note made "Many driveways added, some
with names" at the time.
You noted an issue in Campbell County, VA, if you know of any other
areas where this kind of problem is wide-spread, please let us know
and we'll take a look. This may take some time, but we do make
every effort to continue to improve the quality of our files.
Sincerely,
Anne
Anne O'Connor
Geographic Customer Service Branch
Geography Division
U.S. Census Bureau
4600 Silver Hill Road - Mail Stop 7400
Washington, D.C. 20233-7400
(301) 763-1128
geo.tiger...@census.gov
Subscribe to updates about the TIGER/Line Shapefiles and other
geographic products on our website: http://www.census.gov/geo/
--
--
From: Charlotte Wolter <techl...@techlady.com>
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 20:37
To: GEO TIGERweb (CENSUS/GEO)
Subject: Why do driveways end up with street names??
Hello, TIGER staff,
I am a member of OpenStreetMap abd mpa mostly in the United
States. There is an issue with TIGER data that continually creates
problems, particularly in rural areas,
The issue is that, many times, driveways, particularly long
ones in rural areas, end up with the names of the street they
intersect. I ran across a particularly aggravating example of this
problem in Rustberg, Virginia. There, every almost driveway in town
has been given the name of the street it intersects. In addition,
there are dozens of false driveways with names. The "false" driveways
consist of a node on the street and a second node a few feet away.
Occasionally they correspond to an actual driveway to a house or
business, but much of the time they correspond to nothing (except,
perhaps, the GPS node of the house).
I have worked for the census, and I know how you gather
address data. I, too, have recorded GPS nodes for each building in my
neighborhood. However, this seems to be an issue with how the data is
processed.
Are you working on something to correct this ongoing problem
with driveway names?
Charlotte Wolter
Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady
Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady
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Re: [Talk-us] Sabotage or a really bad bot?
Hello, Looks like, given Paul's information, that I just have to go in and correct as many as I can. This is an occasional issue with TIGER data. Somehow, when an address is located at the end of a driveway, especially long driveways, the driveway is given the street name. It may be a thing with TIGER software. Having worked on the Census, I know they create streets by marking a GPS point for every address. So, somehow the processing of the information they get, driveways become streets. I'll keep working on it. --C At 01:54 AM 4/3/2017, you wrote: On 2017.04.03. 04:26, Charlotte Wolter wrote: > Hello, > > I came across a really weird situation while doing a Maproulette > change. > In Rustberg, a small town in rural Virginia > (http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=16/37.2772/-79.1011), > almost every driveway has been named after the street it intersects. In > addition, numerous very short "driveways" have been created, some of > which go nowhere. > The edits all were done four years ago, it seems. Here is the > message about the edits: "Edited almost 4 years ago by bot-mode > Version #2 · Changeset #15805152." > I removed most of the names and the "driveways" in town, but > they continued well out of town, and finally I gave up. Could someone > take a look at this and, perhaps, reverse the change set? > Thanks the driveways, did you check with sat imagery ? were they at least near what looked like roads or not ? > Charlotte > > > Charlotte Wolter > 927 18th Street Suite A > Santa Monica, California > 90403 > +1-310-597-4040 > techl...@techlady.com > Skype: thetechlady > > > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Rihards Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Sabotage or a really bad bot?
Hello,
I came across a really weird situation
while doing a Maproulette change.
In Rustberg, a small town in rural
Virginia
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=16/37.2772/-79.1011),
almost every driveway has been named after the
street it intersects. In addition, numerous very
short "driveways" have been created, some of which go nowhere.
The edits all were done four years ago,
it seems. Here is the message about the edits:
"Edited almost 4 years ago by bot-mode
Version #2 · Changeset #15805152."
I removed most of the names and the
"driveways" in town, but they continued well out
of town, and finally I gave up. Could someone
take a look at this and, perhaps, reverse the change set?
Thanks
Charlotte
Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady
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[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway
And feel free to correct it in Wikipedia. Also, one reason it is so highly visited is that it is a major highway. Charlotte Authentication-Results: cdptpa-imsmta10 header.DKIM-Signature=@snowandsnow-us.20150623.gappssmtp.com; dkim=permfail (body hash did not verify) Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=snowandsnow-us.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yRCjtczqzVtZalYCj/IOl4HgLx9NtOqkGWs82VSdAX8=; b=IvAT7hILEuXe8T+hS9YsFy7MdnNy4OoQKx1zaGc3BjTPasJkrDgW9XSbKN1Zqz7vk6 tkyumX3S20fhY8v8dx6Twckf5gYH3kRWo0WCQGOGd5NK9yRF7nR4IsIpieqVTiLKdU7R 9oGIHErzx5i/bqf5tPY5w5XURNEDg/eOLX/MnjDEcB4FlZbBfn3R3OEPzwfUTAztWK/m IRzOtDT+ubJwmIALW4xE467BNNXaQuFUnB8rtqRBNgx+g2L63OjMCOmoLtWb0cUfs5JH ZROE2faqEv2Br/Kb+4L5uF2bxBT+lPzMvXOP06kIieuf+pCHmegPZgO6YbCmtObfhJGf ZI5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yRCjtczqzVtZalYCj/IOl4HgLx9NtOqkGWs82VSdAX8=; b=ABkLfvF2/ED9eh8KFb00/P3eaQ+7v/fXqaYm8urxnIE+T/3OUrylddktF+xFoLSsDJ S2G5B/CU0hQWf10PghQq43iOGL7csjX4NFXuQuG+s7muz2iqJlWJCNAiaV2WtcTFqT1c Qosvh4JqhqbCDZfIxERtnA1IFKAEOKKxBfu3lncXMrcsAU1F8/Q0SW6W7MMovhoQe+5e 3w87q9isPHzJBgPFaw3vn4Qrcu6En4nlnorgpeDJJTMf+QC4GopZdsNbEPxJMVcRNy7o FNudhOsie5eIER2QW2i1oOob9Mc/YxminUXKsvAT29qfUUR9x2I4CFqtcauZKw8zqeme +Y9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKhnbXbIahkZTHL1F0I2RrgjIqJlIdO+algKR+f73jdlY/jncKXvfSKC+V/+/9M+POG3nG3/nWVYX8zfA== X-Received: by 10.176.4.38 with SMTP id 35mr10406498uav.15.1485813626658; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:00:06 -0800 To: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> Cc: "talk-us@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us@openstreetmap.org> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Blue Ridge Parkway X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us>, <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/> List-Post: <mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org> List-Help: <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us>, <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe> X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=S8VrxucP c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=MH0xvSrAHRMakJHcG1PQUg==:117 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=fDrJ_nNx:8 a=hWG5bkZX:8 a=595fbENk:8 a=Ngb-VIusbMmQL0VdUyYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1kxuJuLA1OUA:10 a=mPMPejTzh2QA:10 a=23da48SIYPIA:10 a=fBRctor0:8 a=JOXgU4bNLf5Q8pDvwosA:9 a=3nn8eI56GStAJUIN:21 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=Oh4A9SA5_CyJWz607JUA:9 a=3CP7XzAW9HEA:10 a=KFNFQmzTeTiYwYHTjNnu:22 a=IXqsfEYlNX6GN9yhDIEk:22 a=hMGKPrCfFy4uRGG3eOWy:22 a=Z63lJChXQFLWIohD9yMS:22 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.105:25 According to NPS it is a park. [1] <https://www.nps.gov/maps/full.html?mapId=e212fcb5-4ff9-4787-bbe4-3d40cc0d0daa#9/36.8412/-80.6506>https://www.nps.gov/maps/full.html?mapId=e212fcb5-4ff9-4787-bbe4-3d40cc0d0daa#9/36.8412/-80.6506 You just can't trust Wikipedia. maybe they should start citing OSM instead of those old pesky books. On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Frederik Ramm <<mailto:frede...@remote.org>frede...@remote.org> wrote: Hi,   I stumbled across the Blue Ridge Parkway in OSM (you learn something new every day, that's one of the things I like so much about OSM). I noticed that Wikipedia has: "The parkway, while not a National Park, has been the most visited unit of the National Park System every year since 1946..." but we have boundary=national_park delivery=no hgv=no leisure=park Is our definition of national park different than Wikipedia's, or should one of the two be changed? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail <mailto:frede...@remote.org>frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- @osm_seattle <http://osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us>osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch _______ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Los Angeles Building Import mapathon Sunday, June 5
Hello all in and near LA, Work continues on the LA County Building Import (more than 3 million buildings in LA County) Sunday, June 5, at a mapathon in downtown LA. We will be checking the imported building outlines against aerial imagery to validate this import, one of the largest building imports ever OSM. For more information, see http://www.meetup.com/MaptimeLA/events/231550324/ We will gather, starting at 1 p.m., at <https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q=en=216+Alameda+St%2C+Los+Angeles%2C+Los+Angeles%2C+CA%2C+us>Angel City Brewery 216 Alameda Street (between 2nd and 3rd Streets) (two blocks south of the Little Tokyo/Arts District metro station on the Gold Line or about 1/4 mile east from the Pershing Square Red Line metro station) Be sure to bring a laptop (a mouse is also very helpful) some experience using JOSM a healthy appetite for open-source mapping There will be lots of friendly people there to help if you have never done this sort of thing before. See you at Angel City! Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
Russ, I think you have come closest to a good general description of something with multiple uses. Yes, above all, U.S. national forests are protected. So, does that mean that tagging is boundary=protected_area and landuse=conservation, along with, of course, tagging of individual features/uses, such as campground, fishing, archaeological site, etc.? Charlotte At 05:07 AM 5/11/2016, you wrote: Hi Greg and all, Sorry, I either need a refund on that Forestry degree or have to call this out as incorrect: Perhaps the problem here is the multiple roles that the the US Forest Service plays. Note that that name is from the olden days. Now the service is know as the National Park Service. The National Park Service and National Forest Service are too very different things (i.e. branches of government, US Department of Interior versus Department of Agriculture respectively). I think we need to return to that "basic question" what is the main "service"/function of these services Protection! The only reason we have National Forests, Parks, etc. is to protect them, not use although yes, usage is allowed under the various rules/regulations of the particular unit. =Russ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] New MeetUp OSM group in Los Angeles
Hello, I'm trying to get an OSM group up and running in Los Angeles. The former Southern California group, formerly operated by ESRI, was going to shut down, but I thought I would see if I can get it going. There are many exciting projects we could do, in addition to learning how to use OpenStreetMap (iD and JOSM alike). --As this is the 100-year birthday of the National Park Service, we could spruce up the local national and state parks --We could work on validating the ongoing import of building outlines for LA County --There is a database of all the food banks in LA County, which needs help to be added to OSM. More important is what do the group members want to do? What projects will they think are important for Los Angeles? So, it you're interested, please send me an email or go to MeetUp and look for "OSM Southern California." Hope to hear from you soon. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Slack
Frederick, Really nice discussion of the issues around using for-profit tools in an open-source organization. I tend to think that we should use whatever tools we can afford or get for free to make OSM data as good as it can get. The more we can do, the more open-source data is available for the world. That's the goal, and the quicker we can get there, the better. Charlotte Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org, Talk Openstreetmap <t...@openstreetmap.org> From: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:24:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Slack X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us>, <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/> List-Post: <mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org> List-Help: <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us>, <mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe> X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=MKSd45tl c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CoGJZMXjC9ZqYjZMN9F/3A==:117 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=7OsogOcEt9IA:10 a=595fbENk:8 a=hWG5bkZX:8 a=1eHSoU74Iw-a-pUANEUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1kxuJuLA1OUA:10 a=y7XjxEcr900A:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.213:25 Hi, On 03/29/2016 07:33 PM, Luis Villa wrote: > +1 to this. OSM should be seeking to broaden the base of potential > mappers, and that means making sure that gateways to the community are > user-friendly - which these days includes good UX/onboarding experience > and mobile apps. Slack is a clear winner there. As a side note, this is also something commonly debated by the OSMF board and the OSMF members - whether or not, and in how far, non-free tools are valid to use for a project like OSM and a foundation like the OSMF. Example of a recent discussion: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2015-December/003639.html The spectrum of available services for a specific task usually ranges from "Non-free software offered as a service" (with and without silo, with and without payment) over "free software offered as a serivce" to "free software you run yourselves". The paid-for solutions will usually mean less work for the few admins at OSMF (who have enough work with keeping the essentials running), plus they're usually shinier. The self-hosted stuff is often less shiny but more in keeping with the free-and-open spirit. Personally I'm often on the fence as well. I'd love there to be an "internal IT services working group" whom we could task with setting up email, bug trackers, wikis, Mumble servers, and voting platforms as needed but there's no such group and not enough capacity in OWG to shoulder that too. I think that OSM owes its success partly to all those who were happy to use it when it was still much less usable than it is today. Had everyone gone to Google because they had the slickest interface, then OSM wouldn't be where it is today. On the other hand, working groups or the board tend to have a mission and while some detours for using free-and-open are acceptable, there's a limit to just how much productivity loss you can accept for going with the less shiny. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Slack
Slack is easy to use and intuitive. It's a good way to communicate with a team, much better than (ugh!) Github or IRC (which is really primitive compared to Slack). I think it is a stronger tool for small to medium-sized groups, such as a working group, than all of OSM. It may also be useful for some national chapters, if they are not too large. My Maptime group in Los Angeles, which has about 50 active members, uses Slack for notices about meeting content, to organize projects and just to communicate one-to-one about activities and special interests. It works well and can be learned in about 15 minutes. Charlotte At 12:59 PM 3/26/2016, you wrote: Ok so look, Slack took over the world. And it turns out it's pretty good and useful. Let's have an official OSM slack. Due Diligence: <https://www.google.com/#q=slack+site:wiki.openstreetmap.org>https://www.google.com/#q=slack+site:wiki.openstreetmap.org https://www.google.com/#q=slack+site:lists.openstreetmap.org I've found two OSM-related Slacks. Someone owns <http://openstreetmap.slack.com>openstreetmap.slack.com and there is also <http://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com>osmus-slack.herokuapp.com as a front door to the US slack. The former I can't find a lot about. The latter is mentioned here: <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Maryland>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Maryland And it has a neat thing to throw out invites to people. There's also a neat bot that it looks like tmcw wrote: <https://github.com/osmlab/osm-slackbot>https://github.com/osmlab/osm-slackbot I'm proposing that a) we have a global slack and b) it be âofficialâ whatever that means. Having not been able to find this, I invite everyone over to: <https://awesomestreetmap.slack.com>https://awesomestreetmap.slack.com So unless there is a secret slack somewhere that I missed, or something, I need help: * Come join this slack, send me an email for an invite * Can someone please add the osmbot to this slack? * Can someone please make the magic âsend me an invite thingâ for this slack? * Please help edit <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slack>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slack and also make slack a prominent part of other methods of communication * Please announce this on your favorite existing mailing list, forum or IRC channel I realize that Iâm inviting a discussion about how slack is an evil company or that we should all just use IRC, and those are fine arguments I donât have the energy for. Best Steve ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] DOT construction updates
Martijn, The Arizona Dept. of Transportation (ADOT, www.azdot.gov) has extensive information on both proposed and completed projects, sometimes with photos. Seems like a good resource. These could make good Mapoulette challenges. --C At 11:20 AM 3/16/2016, you wrote: Hi all, I was thinking about a good way for the community to get a feed of construction updates from state DOTs. Has anyone ever attempted this? A good start should be a list of state DOTs (I found <http://www.dot.state.ak.us/transpo_resources.shtml>http://www.dot.state.ak.us/transpo_resources.shtml, not sure if it's 100% current). But where to go from there? Every state DOT has its own mechanism / format to distribute updates. Do they all have an RSS feed? Or twitter? At this point I am just curious to hear if anyone else has thought about this already and if so what you have come up with so far. (What triggered this again for me: I heard someone mention that the work on the I-96/US-23 interchange in Michigan was complete, but could not find any confirmation. See this pretty cool video from MDOT for what they are doing there: <https://youtu.be/K9wQoIc2cLc?t=75>https://Martijnyoutu.be/K9wQoIc2cLc?t=75.) The situation on OSM reflects the pre-construction reality > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/359765#map=15/42.5227/-83.7526>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/359765#map=15/42.5227/-83.7526) Martijn ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] CrossCountryRoads.com
Well said, Steve. I hated to give up on the Lincoln Highway (a 1920s project partly funded by automobile manufacturers to promote driving by creating a cross-country scenic route), However, the creators of the Lincoln Highway web site just didn't want to part with their data. I think they fund their historic preservation efforts by licensing data, so their relunctance is understandable. Anyone know of other public sources for Lincoln Highway data? Charlotte At 11:20 AM 11/4/2015, you wrote: I also echo the thanks to Tom Valazak for saying "yes" to this permission and to Martijn for asking. I wish to remind talk-us readers that finding sites and data pools like this and asking and receiving permission is one of the most successful endeavors that OSM volunteers can do. It allows us to enrichen our data and engenders good will about our project(s). The United States Bicycle Route System WikiProject recently was granted permission by the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) to use AASHTO-published route data so OSM can enter accurate national bicycle routes directly from the source of their original publication -- the state Departments of Transportation (DOTs) that develop them on behalf of their state's people. OSM-US and this WikiProject are very grateful for this permission (and say so!). as using these data are a key ingredient of the growth of this project. So, just another example of a very good thing to do for OSM, coupled with a corollary reminder: Ask and you shall receive! (Well, not always, but if you don't, you won't!) Go OSM! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list <mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
Folks, This whole discussion going back more than a year ago has been dominated by very European concepts of what is a forest. I live in the dry, high western United States, where forests are very different from those in Europe (not leafy!) but are no less forests. How would you tag the pinon-juniper forests all over the Southwest, where no trees are taller than 15 feet? Or the chapparal of Southern California or the Jashua Tree stands of the California desert or the Great Sage Plain with sage 10 feet tall? And, Christoph, the forests are divided into subunits because that's how they are administered and because many national forests are made up of physically separate subunits. They can be as much as 100 miles apart. For example, the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest has five such units. If you want information or a permit, you have to go to the local subunit. So, no, they should not be combined into one multipolygon, because, in reality, they are not a single multipolygon. So, while mapping principles are important, so are the physical, natural and administrative realities of a place. Charlotte At 08:14 AM 8/17/2015, you wrote: On Monday 17 August 2015, Martijn van Exel wrote: I removed the landuse=forest from the national forest relations in Utah: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33392465. To find further occurances you can use: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aZs You will also see there that many national forests are mapped as multiple separate areas each with tags and the same name - like http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2658152 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/30268500 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/30268493 It would be a good idea to consolidate those into one multipolygon relation so someone searching for a national forest, for example, will find the whole forest and not only the largest subarea. The map will look very white :( but at least it's not wrong anymore. It will also encourage mapping of actual forested areas as well as other vegetation and natural features. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.dehttp://www.imagico.de ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
But, in the United States, forests are not always about timber production. You won't get any timber for building from a pinon-juniper forest. The trees are too small (though you will get great pinon nuts and mesquite charcoal). It would be a serious problem for OSM if we don't provide a way for renderers to indicate the national forests boundaries clearly and distinctly, including our own renderer (because that's what most people use, folks). Charlotte At 10:10 AM 8/17/2015, you wrote: The issue, as I see it, is that the OSM landuse=forest means that all the land so designated is used for timber production. Thus the long discussions about natural=wood, landcover=trees, etc. In the case of the US National Forests, the boundaries are still tagged with boundary=national_park, boundary:type=protected_area, protect_class=6 and protection_title=National Forest which should be enough for a map renderer to decide to paint the area in a distinctive area. On Aug 17, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Charlotte Wolter mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com wrote: I see your point that it's not a natural forest, but national forests are important institutions as preserves, especially, in addition to their other uses (recreation, research). Having just returned from a camping vacation in the Southwest, I am especially aware that the national forests, as an institution, play an important role there. On most map systems, they are noted by their green color, and that is what most map users expect to see. They use the color to plan where to camp and where they can conduct certain activities (hunting, fishing). Shouldn't their special status be noted somehow? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Tagging National Forests
I see your point that it's not a natural forest, but national forests are important institutions as preserves, especially, in addition to their other uses (recreation, research). Having just returned from a camping vacation in the Southwest, I am especially aware that the national forests, as an institution, play an important role there. On most map systems, they are noted by their green color, and that is what most map users expect to see. They use the color to plan where to camp and where they can conduct certain activities (hunting, fishing). Shouldn't their special status be noted somehow? Charlotte Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=eCEOmX8suKudjBMlR61qHaZNYr/EsywyHSNHe2AKEfM=; b=MOtHXwBMOqG/SePuPQ9Eok8Q3Z4xs0XfOsEg80dPI3efQytD0e1U8LXnhk7i0cR16t DKJokXU8yyxbOocP2VV3f+CKgtGlt+VNsbhyNTEPvBEW3nUL13m8FMHNDrWbo0PfAR5Y G44nH7wWfHgf9NyF70BYKMEdurFQ26gLfX7KBO5G73XNYCi4iKNk2sbuIcCznW6Xe0mc YoUEVoeLRo7tGwhezf21lWqU75f2r9ZC6BwVjLYM9Ke/MmSSCrVRsFH0sAngpcDV7GeB Ve6rNMYQGGirQJq9FxlEq+ZRSsNQ7XvTYk+N19HgLJ7BbQWqpCrtnAhuj7I2vRapfUIk Blzw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnAQZgH4yhHfvn7ssQ6x3Vuq4whMI98Fe2HAFu4H+n/4hR7H7kCZLneuOi47LdXZYKrD5h/ X-Received: by 10.50.164.167 with SMTP id yr7mr2018182igb.50.1439822716455; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.78.133 with SMTP id b5mr15967950igx.70.1439822715414; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Martijn van Exel mart...@openstreetmap.us Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:44:56 -0600 To: Torsten Karzig torsten.kar...@web.de Cc: OpenStreetMap US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/ List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.106:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=XNO+SGRE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CoGJZMXjC9ZqYjZMN9F/3A==:117 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=ayC55rCo:8 a=0oj8HZZGiqAA:10 a=pGLkceIS:8 a=TZb1taSU:8 a=595fbENk:8 a=1XWaLZrs:8 a=lyYuGu4CHa5PaZGX25icmyaRxzw=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=MKtGQD3n3ToA:10 a=ZZnuYtJkoWoA:10 a=uRRa74qj2VoA:10 a=vbhU_ohP:8 a=khNlfbpK:8 a=qBZiHCFgwTCtDBHinFYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=P9JqVeWq6w4A:10 a=MOiCCvhP6pMA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=IFNigu-yOPMEfF2xcDIA:9 a=YLuhPL1mSLj6Vi-m:21 a=Oh4A9SA5_CyJWz607JUA:9 a=3CP7XzAW9HEA:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 I removed the landuse=forest from the national forest relations in Utah:Â http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33392465http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33392465. The map will look very white :( but at least it's not wrong anymore. Martijn van Exel Secretary, US Chapter OpenStreetMap http://openstreetmap.us/http://openstreetmap.us/ http://osm.org/ skype: mvexel On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 6:49 AM, Torsten Karzig mailto:torsten.kar...@web.detorsten.kar...@web.de wrote: I agree with Martijn and Paul. To not repeat some of the arguments I want to point out that there was a similar discussion on the mailing list two years ago: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-May/010759.htmlmisuse of the landuse=forest tag for national forests https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-May/010756.html I think there was no agreement reached back then so we just kept the status quo. ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Railway crossing challenge for MapRoulette
Matijn, By the way, what is the difference between crossing and level_crossing? --C At 03:30 PM 7/7/2015, you wrote: Hey Mike Crossings already present in OSM will not be excluded, but can be easily skipped over. In most cases you can see them on the rendered map tiles so no need for a round trip to the editor. Martijn van Exel On Jul 6, 2015, at 1:54 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 7/6/2015 10:46 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote: Please share your corrections / feedback so I can improve this if necessary before I push it live. (In particular I am never sure whether to use crossing or level_crossing.) Thanks for doing that challenge - it sounds like a great fit for MapRoulette! My only feedback is not to include the OSM already has a crossing points, or - is this confirmation that the specific challenge task has been complete? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: a plea to armchair mappers
Hello, Making imagery more up-to-date won't solve the problem. The real problem is that OSM never communicates with its members, expecially not with those armchair mappers who do it recreationally. They are not reading the email lists, which are mostly geeky and obsessed with obscure details of mapping. Until OSM has a method of communication aimed at ALL members, these problems will continue. I'm sure most armchair mappers never even saw Richard's initial email. Charlotte Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:41:05 -0400 From: Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net Organization: OpenStreetMap Foundation US Chapter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org, Help for newbie mappers newb...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/ List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.88:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=QfzkT7nv c=1 sm=1 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=4DShlaf8lPEA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=PClR7n_L:8 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=lyYuGu4CHa5PaZGX25icmyaRxzw=:19 a=7jpaf23jXePW8A5GfyYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=j4nzMFrp:8 a=33LOB3Aued-tYcZPdawA:9 a=595fbENk:8 a=Oh4A9SA5_CyJWz607JUA:9 a=1mqQPh2WKVcA:10 a=Rg0RHN00k_UA:10 a=3CP7XzAW9HEA:10 a=5tvtDbUfqroA:10 a=PSREjz6f8YchurqagD8nYg==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 On 6/11/15 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen wrote: We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to our OSM editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using older imagery. i am not persuaded that these armchair mappers are paying attention. unless there's a big warning this imagery is X years old that can't be ignored, i think the information will frequently be ignored. i'd like a tag that we could use that has some editor support, it might be the case that all we need is a pop up dialog when there's a README tag that says something like Read this before committing: text of README tag richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVeZ4BAAoJEKL/niN4P3QWn5oQAKuyXd5+92KvCxPVprxOXWgb OpG7gl5b9llPIj3Bgs0//rVdcmjALJGby7x6Fgb8ZUKff0KoZMC92UeynCUnmvoa AuLf8z9jxA+oxtqISxiKlDTm1lOAHG6BX5AwxLPQEKQbmvLu7b4etgZYopJuLKDo MNsnSlYfh5OPf8WTJq34G3hujDch5g0GzDJWUlTiMaqgqfiuOwAwcTruhTmCs7b5 EgGUj2Dqffdc1o2l2zdY3F62ZeQ0AhWxTKRt/qexfSZnaLxMlO8L97ulicZrYfqW cdjaBF+UVXS1g0Edgb3Lkpv+OKQUNwU0oWgmkEQYd+bbeCKTeJ2Purvnfzh8tViL lXz4bAHNRBayrqzF0bB/hchOkMbrBLiuYDc/IyHBK3eLm780iBdWdSxJbbXtTpGY xOhihqApjAXB1x63cOP4bxDrofAXS3ONZR9O2mXI4cS5xkkQkcEO12CNeF5GtXDk KkaVrX3rvTfAkljgx+LAkLVq2z6hD0IcwANBSIkqFiSFkBbd49djpiDaY8xtpREk P1vF9an3X9u57Asx8NnUUB4guA0svYblkzsENVtBB39hk+mhG77ZMvHaP1fhdaot P9otai0nCNt3/bb95rC8OldjF/QgGK4zxeWy7UA3TeOA4MIgA2IlXQbokQUze/h3 BqzkMEHLt+aqRtiFGDaj =ZX4E -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: National Forest nature_reserve?
Steve, Interesting discussion. But, I have one question. After all that, how do I code a national forest? Charlotte Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 18:00:27 -0700 To: Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com From: stevea stevea...@softworkers.com Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] National Forest nature_reserve? X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/ List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.7:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=a8O+9CiF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PSREjz6f8YchurqagD8nYg==:117 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=ayC55rCo:8 a=0oj8HZZGiqAA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=Eor1iV6w:8 a=TZb1taSU:8 a=595fbENk:8 a=oTtuw1C_:8 a=lyYuGu4CHa5PaZGX25icmyaRxzw=:19 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=P426Sab11vEsAsaxPfgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 On not-so-long-ago USFS polygons, I tagged BOTH boundary=protected_area, leaving older landuse=forest and leisure=nature_reserve tags as they are. When protected Wilderness, on initial creation, my tagging soups up to reflect that Wilderness/Forest distinction: a protect_class 6 and a 1b are distinct. Leaving existing tagging alone seems best unless it is clear a newer method is a better method, as now extant semantics can be easily lost. OSM editors are good hearted, wishing to improve as we edit. I go along with new tagging schema as I learn them and become smarter at using them, as we should. Wholesale removal of landuse or leisure tags? Well, now slow down. I don't think I heard THAT. Something about old and new styles are out there, yes, I agree. So, it is historical and it is emerging. I've been around in OSM to see it happen and participate in it over the years. Older tags getting deprecated might speed up that very decay cycle (even as I hit Send). Yet, leaving them (abandoned railroads anybody? no scratch that as rhetorical) largely as tagged now satisfies a current need. Co-existence and peace through conversation, what do you know?! (Elliott Plack says we see both, I agree). We have a decent early-21st-century fix on more than a few USFS boundaries with landuse and leisure tags. I see no reason to go out of our way to remove those tags (in favor of protect_class tag) as they co-exist just fine. Sure, protect_class is a fine way to mean a certain semantic. Yet, too, this is a forest boundary. What we (the USA, OSM's wiki...) say a forest is, after all. That has a certain standing to remain as is: these are forests. Well, as of 3.6 years ago, maybe. We get smarter as we get older, right?! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OSM TED Style Talk - Fort Collins Colorado
Mike, I just visited the web site of the Bears Ears Coalition (www.bearsearscoalition.org), a group that is working to preserve a unique and beautiful area in southeastern Utah. It is a place I visit every summer. They have a petition to President Obama and a fund-raising effort. The web sitee includes two interactive maps created for them by Maps for Good, and they give credits to OSM and Mapbox. One map shows the main sights in the area, and the other pinpoints threats, such as mining. The web site and the maps are almost as beautiful as the landscape. Charlotte At 11:20 AM 5/18/2015, you wrote: I have been accepted to deliver a TED style talk at the FoCOFuture Forum (Fort Collins Colorado) on Wednesday May 27th. The title of my presentation is Shaping our Communities Through Maps, and of course it is about OSM! Additional details are here: http://univercityconnections.org/http://univercityconnections.org/ The event is open to the public, so if you are in the area, please attend (preregistration is required). Mike ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] No Parallel/Resize or Copy/Paste in iD editor?
Bryan, Do you mean Control-C and Control-V, which are the usual Windows way to copy and paste? --C At 07:19 AM 4/19/2015, you wrote: On Apr 18, 2015, at 8:39 PM, David Wisbey mailto:yourvillagem...@yahoo.comyourvillagem...@yahoo.com wrote: don't see any way to create parallel features (or Copy and Paste as in JOSM). We don't have a way to create parallel features yet, but there is an open issue for it in github. It's something that a lot of people request and I agree would be a useful tool. Copy and paste does now work with cmd-C / cmd-V, this is a recent addition. Thanks, Bryan Sent from my iPhone ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: No Parallel/Resize or Copy/Paste in iD editor?
I would love to see the ability to do parallel ways in iD. I have had to go back to Potlatch a couple of times because of this. Charlotte I'm a long-time user of Potlatch. Every time since the new iD editor was introduced that I have tried to use it, I have had to give up and go back to Potlatch. At first it was simply way too slow. It seems to perform better, speed-wise anyway, now. I used to use JOSM to work on the buildings of apartment complexes, until Java stopped working on my computer (still a big mystery with no fix). I heard recently that a new Rotate feature was added in iD, so I decided to give iD yet another try. I see the Rotate tool - nice. However, I don't see any way to create parallel features (or Copy and Paste as in JOSM). This would be necessary for my purposes, where most buildings in an apartment complex are identical but oriented differently. I would like to be able to not only rotate a polygon, but copy and paste and then rotate the pasted polygon and move it to its correct location. I don't see any way to do that. Is there a hidden way of doing this, such as hot keys? Be seeing you, David J. Wisbey GIS Services / Cartography / Graphics / Desktop Publishing Tel. 720-282-3626 Email: mailto:yourvillagem...@yahoo.comyourvillagem...@yahoo.com I'm also on Facebook as David Wisbey ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US
Everyone, Aren't some of these hamlets still used as postal addresses? In that sense, they still exist. Also, in the West we have the phenomenon of old rail infrastructure, such as watering stations, that were named. A good example is Adamana near the Petrified Forest. There are still a couple of houses there. Would will still consider those hamlets? Charlotte At 11:07 AM 3/18/2015, you wrote: On 3/18/15 1:29 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.comdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: or maybe keep it as a historical place name, something like place=locality and old_name=Bender's Corner? I agree that this is something local mappers with local knowledge should decide upon I'm inclined to delete or move it to OpenHistoricalMap. i'd like to see more of us thinking in terms of moving things to OHM, but... 1) make sure they really existed at some point in time 2) when possible, come up with at least years to use in start_date and end_date tags. richard -- mailto:rwe...@averillpark.netrwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly
Steve, Thanks to Michael for a great find and to you for trying to make it usable in OSM. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it. Sounds like we should hold off on any wiki work for a while. There is much data to examine, and I'm already doing stuff for HOT. I'd like to take a look at the materials for Arizona just to see if their names for lines correspond to what I'm seeing already from TIGER. Like I said before, we have time to make sure we're doing this right. Charlotte At 11:24 AM 12/31/2014, you wrote: Michael Patrick writes: (about the Oak Ridge National Laboratory: ... Railroad Network data). I found these at: http://www-cta.ornl.gov/transnet/RailRoads.html And have downloaded (~10 megabytes) a zipped shapefile of the entire network (as well as the simplified 7 megabyte one which omits inactive lines and contains only current operators, but incorporates interlines as network links.) I knew there had to be something like this in the public domain, and I say thank you very much, Michael. I'll examine these in JOSM right now. First they need to be unzipped, and it looks like the (provided on that web page) PRJ file to change from WGS 84 (default) to either NAD 27 or 83 projection is required. I haven't done that to these data in the instant case, but I've fiddled these before and I think it is doable. Results in JOSM (after many seconds of load time) -- and JOSM MUST have the Shapefile plug-in -- do indeed display a nationwide network of rail lines. As a sample I chose (UP's Coast line in California, which I believe I have gotten mostly correct in OSM recently) has 30 rather cryptic (at first blush) tags, but these indeed look to be usable data. Geographically, yes, the rail line looks about correct though the tag structure seriously will have to be harmonized to become something to import into OSM. This starts to move (quickly) into the direction of a major import (and all its required vetting, etc.) into OSM. I ask others to help me determine the suitability of whether we might want to use these data. I imagine a fair bit of work would be required to harmonize the 30 tags into those we might deem appropriate for USA rail in OSM, as well as strategies for conflating them with existing TIGER rail data. It's a big, big, BIG job. On the other hand, I could see small segments in these data that interest local mappers being used to confirm names or actual track locations for existing data on a line-by-line basis, too. Thanks for really good discussion about this, Charlotte stepping up to make a wiki page, Michael's reference to these data and the great volunteer, cooperative and collaborative spirits we find in OSM here in the USA. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly
Steve, Yes, any explanation of the difference between main and branch lines and owner is appreciated. I find myself rather confused at the moment. For instance, why does the BNSF line across Arizona and into New Mexico change to Gallup Subdivision at one point to the west of the city of Gallup? It seems to be still the BNSF main line. Further, other subdivisions, such as the Springerville (Ariz.) Subdivision, clearly seem to be branches. So, when is a line a subdivision? If I get a handle on this and other distinctions, I can make corrections (or explanations) ... I think. Best wishes, Charlotte At 11:17 AM 12/29/2014, you wrote: Hello Nathan, Tod, Alexander, Minh and Charlotte: Thank you for responding to my talk-us posts about rail. I'm having multiple conversations about this, to a large extent with Alexander Jones, as he is emerging as a local expert (well, more experienced) w.r.t. rail in OSM. Especially with how it renders with ORM. There are many good resources (public, and compatible with OSM's ODBL) to use, both in California (and perhaps YOUR state!) and federally. For the latter, Alexander recommends http://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/OfficeofSafety/publicsite/crossing/xingqryloc.aspxhttp://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/OfficeofSafety/publicsite/crossing/xingqryloc.aspx . He also has (and has sent to me, please ask him) an excellent spreadsheet which flatten/simplify what might be called a good first cut at a branching structure. I have also found truly complete, excellent (down to signals, etc.) rail maps on rail fan sites. These essentially give us all we need (one was in .kmz format, which JOSM simply read and could almost be imported directly into OSM). However, they are specifically copyrighted and not compatible with OSM's ODBL, alas I almost feel I cannot even continue to view such documentation, lest it pollute OSM with copyrighted data (similar to looking at Google Maps, which I strenuously avoid!) What this means is that the data are out there and that dedicated persons can compile them with research and patience. So, OSM volunteers can do this, but it WILL be a LOT of work. I agree with Nathan that usage=main and usage=branch can be quite tricky to know how to tag, and that there appears to be an essentially subjective interpretation about which tag (if any of these) is appropriate for any given line. I am in the process of writing a ten day review post to talk-us about this, which I will post after I send all of you this email. USA rail in OSM is a large subject to tackle, which will take a great deal of effort by many. The essential step of better understanding, agreeing amongst ourselves and harmonizing all of the tagging necessarily comes first. I propose a new WikiProject, but I do not have the bandwidth to do this all by myself, as I remain busy with our USBRS WikiProject. To address MInh's question about Cincinnati, CNOTP and NS, I'd say that owner=City of Cincinnati is correct, and operator=NS and name=CNOTP capture it accurately. But this is just one of many examples of how difficult these often complex leasing/ownership/operator arrangements can be with rail. In short, I am interested in continuing this, but with limits to my abilities to do so. I invite all of you to please stay in touch with me and each other about this if you like, and even to recruit other OSM volunteers to better coordinate what might become a more formal effort, whether in California, another state or region, or over the whole of the USA. And if anybody starts a WikiProject for USA rail, I'd be thrilled! Best regards, Steve All Santa Cruz, California Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Stump the rail experts
Steve, Here's one that could provoke all sorts of opinions about tagging. The Springerville Subdivision off the main BNSF line. which parallels I-40 across Arizona (those mile-long trains you frequently pass), is about 60 miles long. So, it seems like a real subdivision. But, as near as I can tell, it primarily goes to one mine in the Springerville area. There are a couple of others like that, though their names escape me at the moment. So, is it a subdivision or a lead? Is the usage industrial (probably more research needed)? And we'd have to find out who really owns it. Hmmm. This could be fascinating Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Vandalism
Did anybody try reaching out to the user and offering to help? I reverted the edit (to minimize the damage), but I'm not nearly as comfortable doing the reaching out part at the moment. -- Shawn K. Quinn mailto:skqu...@rushpost.comskqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits
Everyone, It seems to me that the candidates in question have excellent qualifications for the OSM board. All have experience in GIS, in the private or public sector, and some have management experience, something OSM really needs. Also, all have editing experience with OSM, whether in the United States or outside. I think quibbling about the volume of edits misses the point. OSM needs strong organizational leadership. No matter who one votes for, that should be the central issue. Charlotte At 09:21 PM 10/5/2014, you wrote: I will make an assumption (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that both candidates with 0 edits are female. I am basing this only on names and a rudimentary internet search. I think before both candidates answer that question - you need to define why they have a complete lack of OpenStreetMap experience, They have made edits. Were last year's edits not good? Were the other edits from other candidates better? How many edits make an experienced mapper? Non US edits are a bad thing when running for a OSM US Position? If they had only made 59 edits this year. Randy On 10/05/2014 11:21 PM, Paul Norman wrote: On 10/5/2014 6:26 PM, Alan McConchie wrote: All of the candidates have made more than zero edits While true that all candidates have edited OSM at some point in the past, two of them have zero edits in the last year, and one of those has no US edits ever.[1] While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a board member. [1]: https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219#file-01_results-txt ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us --- Randal Hale North River Geographic Systems Inc http://www.northrivergeographic.com 1-423-653-3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale http://www.northrivergeographic.com/spatial-connect ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us /x-flowed Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] New York Times Magazine article that included OSM
Hello all, Did anyone see the lead article in Sunday's Nw York Times Magazine that included OSM. It primarily was about Google Maps and its use of cameras, both on vehicles and on individuals, to record photos for its Street View. But the article also talked about OSM as a potential competitor to Google in the future. Very interesting. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] osm data on boston.com, perhaps, definitely not atttributed
Tod, Evin, If you think that, indeed, OSM is being used without an attribution, why don't you ask politely that they add it. It probably is an oversight. That way, OSM makes another friend. You could even offer to provide help (if you have time). Charlotte At 01:08 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote: Seems like this is something that really needs to be fixed. It sure seems dumb that there no attribution to OSM when you embed an OSM map on another webpage. -Compdude On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Tod Fitch mailto:t...@fitchdesign.comt...@fitchdesign.com wrote: I've changed a web page from using an embedded Google map using the Share with HTML option from http://www.openstreetmap.org/http://www.openstreetmap.org/ having selected the tiles to be from Mapquest and found that it embeds exactly like that, without the OSM attribution. Seems like if you do it from OSM, the attribution should just be there. For example, plop this into a web page and look to see what you get: iframe width=425 height=350 frameborder=0 scrolling=no marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 src=http://www.openstreetmap.org/export/embed.html?bbox=-119.1426,34.7812,-119.0945,34.8394amp;layer=mapquestamp;marker=34.81261,-119.12715http://www.openstreetmap.org/export/embed.html?bbox=-119.1426,34.7812,-119.0945,34.8394amp;layer=mapquestamp;marker=34.81261,-119.12715; style=border: 1px solid black /iframe I guess I could futz with the HTML and setup my own server to be in the middle and have it add the attribution but that is way more than you can expect the average user to do. -Tod On Aug 30, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: Greg Troxel mailto:g...@ir.bbn.comg...@ir.bbn.com writes: http://www.boston.com/yourtown/specials/truck_crashes_storrow_memorial_drive/http://www.boston.com/yourtown/specials/truck_crashes_storrow_memorial_drive/ The data looks like osm, and zooming in near Kendall Square and MGH certainly makes it look like OSM. Compare page 3 with: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/42.36197/-71.07089layers=Nhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/42.36197/-71.07089layers=N I talked with someone at http://boston.com/globe.comboston.com/globe.com, and now there is attribution. Apparently this is tricky because people use mapquest open tiles without realizing that they have to attribute osm when doing so. This case was fixed within hours of being pointed out, which is great. ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] test -- trying to solve email problem
-- Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Steady increase in the number of mappers in the US
116 42873 10047 2603 370 1.94 6 United Kingdom 63,181,775 113 36210 4111 2233 320 1.79 7 Poland 38,533,299 91 37578 4271 4112 413 2.36 8 Austria 8,464,554 77 18564 4414 948 241 9.10 9 Spain 47,059,533 70 25214 3745 712 360 1.49 10 Belgium 11,153,405 52 16430 2201 1670 316 4.66 I'd like to suggest that we adopt a goal of increasing the number of active mappers in the US. I'm not sure how we accomplish it, but I'd like to solicit suggestions and feedback. Lets set some target goals. I think this is a worth while project to work on. I'll start by just listing a few of my thoughts: We need publicity! Increase diversity of mappers by attracting more women and minority mappers Support for local groups OSM Ambassadors (Like Fedora Ambassadors if you are familiar with the linux distribution Fedora) Cheers, -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Onboarding new mappers | Keeping track of changes
Bryce, Yes, most people sign up and never hear from OSM again. So they go about their mapping as best they can until, perhaps, they join the Newbies list (which often has highly technical discussions that many don't understand) or they get told they are doing something wrong. If an organization doesn't reach out to people in a positive way, they won't stay, and they won't do their best when mapping It would be better if there were some kind of regular, positive communication from OSM. That could come in several forms: --a newsletter (monthly or bimonthly), which is something most volunteer organizations have (so, why don't we?) --occasional emails about new developments in OSM mapping. MapRoulette and LearnOSM are prime examples. --outreach from OSM veterans to mappers in their geographical area. This could be as simple as, Hello, I'm mapping in (your area). If you have a question, don't hesitate to contact me. Of course we would need to set up some way to send new mappers email addresses to seasoned mappers. As for tests, the idea itself is not bad, in the proper context. But, unless we have a rapport with people, and have given them clear direction and learning resources (something we don't do now), a test will just drive them away. A better way to do testing might be to let people know from the beginning that we want to make sure everyone is mapping the right way, so at some point (after a month?) we will be asking them to take a quick quiz on OSM principles. The carrot is that the one with the best score (each month?) gets a prize (SOTM t-shirt? OSM hat? OSM pin?). Rewards keep people around, not criticism. Now all we have to do is come to some agreement on what is the right way to tag. :-) Charlotte At 10:41 AM 6/26/2013, you wrote: Moved from another thread: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:51 AM, stevea mailto:stevea...@softworkers.comstevea...@softworkers.com wrote: OSM has a peer review process in place right now. It is called watch the map, help it evolve, grow it as you can, if somebody does something odd/wrong/different, dialog with them. And then, take it from there. We're all grown ups here. There may be a few children mixed in. But mostly, coming to OSM, signing up, and mapping can be a very lonely experience. In most cases nobody greets you or talks to you unless you make a mistake. Changing that culture could change the participation or retention rate, particularly among non-grownups (meaning the generations of children growing up with social networking as a given). OSM outside of mapping parties is only barely social to a new mapper. The tools could help: 1) After the first edit from a new user, the tools could present a list of rules (chief among them don't copy from unapproved sources!). 2) A new users could be required to take a small quiz, like certain dating sites do, prior to finalizing the edit. 3) A first edit could go in a queue for an experienced mapper to look at and comment on. Hopefully that comment is great job, welcome to the community! 4) Editing a feature connected to a relation could bring up education on route relations. Perhaps even there is a skill level threshold: you must have 25 peer reviewed edits prior to deleting a way that's part of a route relation. It becomes a goal a new mapper might strive to reach. 5) New users could be given 10 free edits, prior to needing to provide more contact information and/or pass an editing quiz. 6) New users could be given their choice of a mapping challenge, where the correct results are known,. 7) etc. With all this effort to get new mappers in the USA we should be thrilled a mapper wants to contribute... ... and put in the work to ensure such new users be onboarded and brought into OSM culture. Note that: Wikipedia has a strong reasons to allow completely anonymous edits. OSM I think not so much. We could ask more of people who want to edit, with the goal of making more good mappers, rather than just more mappers. We should honor an support mappers who have narrow interests... and find ways to harness their energy. We can ask users to ascend a ladder of skills, to unlock capabilities within the community. And it could be tested regionally. If there's a theory that raising the bar will reduce participation, it can be tested. I suspect that peer review of first edits, or achievement levels, would increase participation. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a super-two highway (trunk or motorway?)
Yes, and out west, where there are long lonely stretches of interstate, there seem to be places where bicycle access is allowed. I am thinking of I-40 east of Barslow, where another mapper (sorry, don't remember who) told me that it was correct after I asked him about it. Charlotte At 03:10 PM 6/26/2013, you wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Paul Johnson mailto:ba...@ursamundi.orgba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Jun 25, 2013 9:51 PM, Chris Lawrence mailto:lordsu...@gmail.comlordsu...@gmail.com wrote: IMO the first criterion I'd look for is: does this road carry the same restrictions associated with a freeway in the state in question? For example, in many states, freeways have posted access restriction signs limiting use by pedestrians, bikes, low-cc motorized vehicles, and sometimes farm equipment. If it does, it's a motorway, at least where those restrictions apply. If it doesn't, it's not. That would mean most freeways including interstates in the west, with the exception of limited sections in the bay area, southwestern California, central Portland and urban Seattle wouldn't be motorways, as restricting pedestrians and bicycles is unusual in 34 states. I don't think Chris is suggesting that posted access restrictions should be a sole criterion for tagging a highway as motorway. In Kansas, Signs indicating access restrictions are posted on the on-ramps to interstates and some (but *not* all) non-interstate freeways. K-10, for instance, has posted access restrictions on the Douglas County segment, but not on the Johnson County segment. Both sections of K-10 in question, however, are clearly freeway, and properly tagged as motorway in OSM. Back to the question at hand (how to treat super-two facilities): While KDOT *state* maps do not distinguish between 2-lane controlled access and non-controlled access facilities (and, since 2010, the same applies to non-interstate 4-lane facilities,) *county* level maps published after 2007 do show controlled-access facilities, regardless of the number of lanes. Those county maps show US 169 between Chanute and Iola as a controlled-access facility. Thus, it is properly tagged as motorway under Chris's second suggestion (If it has full access control, it's a motorway. If not, it's not one.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
Martin, In many Los Angeles neighborhoods, asking residents is not feasible. Most are in cars, not walking. Some people wouldn't talk to you, and many wouldn't know, given the transient nature of some neighborhoods. On the other hand, the City of Los Angeles has been identifying a number of neighborhoods and gracing them with signs on main roads. For Los Angeles, at least, city government would be a good source. I believe there is a trend in many other large cities to identify neighborhoods. Charlotte At 12:21 PM 6/11/2013, you wrote: On 11/giu/2013, at 21:07, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Often, I can't determine the subdivision boundary from either Bing or a survey; I'd need to see an organization map which would be of questionable license. or ask the people that live there, would that be feasible? cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OSM Data Quality
Richard, We need: 1. More people. A big part of the map is untouched. We could reach out more to the educational community to get middle-school and high-school students involved. 2. Better training for people who are new to OSM. I think learnosm.org is very good. I'm a little apprehensive that iD is too geeky for people who are not coders. 3. Clear priorities. If I've just joined OSM, and I'm rarin' to go, what should I do first? I don't mean that we should constrain people's creativity, but a little guidance would be helpful. Should they align streets, check street names, add all street lights? Find all turn restrictions in their area? What kinds of things would improve the quality of the data? I have no agenda here. I'm waiting to be guided, too. Charlotte At 01:28 PM 5/31/2013, you wrote: On 5/31/13 3:15 PM, Frederic Julien wrote: Dear all, I'm working on a presentation and interested to hear your thoughts. What are the top 2-3 changes that could improve OSM data quality? That could be processes, tools, methods, training, peer review, attributes, etc. at one level, i agree with Clifford Snow's comment that first you need to define data quality. at another level, i think that we can talk about the following: 1) consistency in tagging. editor improvements, better documentation, better training materials can all help with this 2) improved processes and controls for data import (this is work that is happening on the US import committee). there are a lot of imports of the past that suffer from Quality Control issues, and lots of imports that never should have been done because of problems with the data quality. 3) in the US (and you did ask on talk-us), identifying and dealing with the shaky Tiger data from the 2007 tiger import. some of this has been done, but it's an ongoing effort and is one of those things that is easier to say than it is to do richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] OSM down for servicing
Hello, Does anyone know how long OSM will be down for servicing? Also, was this announced anywhere? I lost some work because I did not know that it could not be saved. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging Live Indoor Music Venues (continued)
Will, We have a tag for theater. Does that cover music venues (such as Disney Hall, here in LA)? What about nightclubs, such as The Roxy or Troubadour? What about in-between places (in terms of size), such as the Wiltern of the Broad Stage in Santa Monica? Both are used for music, theater and, sometimes, comedy. Then, of course, there is the Improv or the Groundlings in Chicago, which are kind of nightclubs or small theaters for comedy, not music. Maybe we need a more general tag, such as performance venue with some tags to specify the type of performance (theater, music, comedy)? Just a suggestion. Charlotte At 05:54 PM 2/28/2013, you wrote: To those who commented, thank you. I've created a wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dmusic_venuehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dmusic_venue that include the points that most of we were able to agree upon, which is using amenity=music_venue to tag these places. As for using concert_hall, and other more complex tags, we can continue the discussion on there (or here if you want) and as more of these objects are tagged, more tags can be used. regards, will. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
Richard, I have been doing that in Southwestern parks that I have visited recently (Mesa Verde, Malpais Notional Monument). Usually I do the foot trails in the conventional manner, usually with a name, such as Far View House Trail. For each point of interest, I tag it as archaeological (that's what's there in Mesa Verde) and give a name (Far View House Great Kiva). I have not used sign numbers because, so far, there haven't been any. But, at Mesa Verde I haven't done some of the real popular ones, such as Cliff Palace, where there might, indeed, be numbered stops. Oh, and trails to sights in Mesa Verde and other Southwestern parks sometimes can be longer, like half a mile to a mile. There's usually a pull-off with substantial parking. As for using ref, that changes the nature of that tag. Now we use ref to give the same identification to multiple pieces of a way, not to give different identities to pieces of a way. I think it might be better to include the number of each stop in the name, but I'm certainly open to suggestion. Charlotte At 07:49 AM 2/22/2013, you wrote: [the following includes a message that Adam cc'd to the list that probably got into the moderator queue] On 2/22/13 9:03 AM, Adam Schreiber wrote: On 2/21/13, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? Last spring and summer, the Spotsylvania Battlefield was redoing a lot of their informational signs. The signs were there, but the information plate was removed. Some are on the map with labels and some without. I think most that didn't have the info plate weren't mapped. There's also a trail that cuts through the woods from the road bend parking at the Mule Shoe Salient to a spring house and some ruins that used to be closed. I also haven't mapped any of the signed driving routes outside of the park. i'll look at the unmapped signs. also, on a related note, does anyone have any thoughts about good ways to mark tour stops with existing tags? i'm thinking ref for the actual stop number, but what in the tourism category would work for the general area of the stop? usually there's a small parking area or pulloff, a couple of informational signs, and frequently a trail of some sort, sometimes as long as 1/4 mile or so (longer trails are generally point-to-point and not really part of the stop.) do we need a site relation of some sort, a bag to contain all the bits that combine to form the stop? richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] More on TIGER: Where it's likely safe to import
While I like the idea of being able to identify and possibly do imports for one-kilometer-square (why not miles?) chunks of the map, I think it needs to be accompanied with lots of cautionary language about assessing the area thoroughly before taking any such action. We could give people examples of what to look for to see if the area really is a TIGER desert, and what to check before making a move. May be it would be better if a group of squares are identified using criteria set up by the Data group or someone similarly experienced. Then, the square kilometers could be presented in a Maproulette kind of format, but with a chance to choose which one you take on. That way, you could choose square kilometers that are near where you are working anyway or near areas with which you are familiar. Best, Charlotte At 12:22 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote: Nice. Suggestions; - kill water somehow - Information density at low zoom levels implies that basically everywhere is green. But you zoom to the bay area and see this isn't the case. So, change the coloring? Modulate it by population density? Steve On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:32 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: OK this is plain awesome. Great work Mike. One note of caution though - the title may suggest that you can just go ahead and import away, but folks would still have to follow the import guidelines and contact the OSM community at large, come up with a solid proposal and discuss that, even if there is no local community. I know it says it on the tin, but it's kind of tucked away at the bottom. Have you looked into full history planet parsing to get a fuller picture of editing history? I took a stab at full history user metrics some time ago using osmjs; https://github.com/mvexel/OSMQualityMetrics/blob/master/UserStats.js - this produces one set of metrics for the entire .osh file you feed it but it may prove useful for future work. I haven't touched this in a while but it should still work :/ On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Michal Migurski m...@teczno.com wrote: I pulled together some of the notes and imagery I've been posting here recently: http://www.openstreetmap.us/~migurski/green-means-go/ It's a map of 1km×1km squares covering the continental United States. Green squares show places where data imports are unlikely to interfere with community mapping. Raw data is linked at the bottom. Three things that would make this better: - Regular updates with archived older versions. - Renders for specific counties, intended for local GIS communities. - Some awareness of full planet history. The OSM-US server has data for regular updates. -mike. michal migurski- contact info and pgp key: sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US
Serge, This is a good idea. I have a large file of data from the Acoma tribe, but my efforts to negotiate the import wiki have been fruitless. I can't made heads or tails of it. Further, I don't know if it's the kind of data we want (though they say it is public domain and gave permission in writing). It is road center lines for the whole reservation. I remember a remark somewhere in this forum that center lines are not the best data. At any rate, I'm not a good judge of whether or not it is what we want. In addition, I've already done work on the main roads, though often I'm lacking a name or number. And, I don't have tools to exmine a data file to see if it is congruent with what OSM can use. So, for many reasons, having a knowledgeable group take this on seems to me like a great idea. Best, Charlotte At 06:42 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote: Folks, I know what it's like to be excited about OSM, and I know what it's like to be frustrated with OSM, struggling with low data quality, or lack of data altogether. And then you get access to a large dataset, and you know that having it in OSM would improve things. It would improve the quality, and maybe even get people mapping. At the same time, I think many of you have seen the damage that bad imports can do. The result is that folks like myself and others are frustrated by the import process, and folks who have good, useful datasets are frstrated by the import process. So I'm proposing a new committee, run by the US Chapter, to help guide imports and large edits. This will give step by step guidance to those who want to import data, and offer the larger community time to review and provide feedback. When I helped create the US Chapter several years ago, this was one of the main reasons I thought it should exist, but I think there's finally the amount of data and interest to justify it. What do folks think? - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: More on TIGER: Where it's likely safe to import
/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Role of the Wiki
Martijn, Your reply illustrates what is wrong with with OSM's approach to giving members, especially new ones, the tools they need. The attitude that that information is there if you are willing to look for it is very flawed. Any organization that wants to be inclusive and to encourage others to participate needs to provide them with information that is definitive and easy to access. Otherwise, OSM runs the danger of being an exclusive club of insiders who know all the secrets, while everyone else is essentially left out of the party. Long-term, this will lead to OSM's demise. OSM needs to add a lot more people, if it is to meet its goal of making a feature-rich accurate map of the world. But the idea that a newer member should be willing to search through 10 to 12 information sources to find out how to map works completely counter to that goal. We need to create a Wiki that everyone can understand, use and reply on. I propose that we create a definitive wki, overseen by a working group. This would not mean that the wiki never would change. But it would enable a reliable, source of information for newcomers and, I believe, would greatly improve map quality. Charlotte Wolter X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.183 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AswBAGuuv1BZELOWlGdsb2JhbABEgmy7MQgWDgEBAQEJCwkJFAQjgh4BAQEEAQEBNwYBBQoeBAcBAgECAQIGAQYFCwMKHggIAwEdAQUBDAEFARwGEwUPh2oDDwEDCKNhjy2FWg2JTgEFDItCaQuENgOIX4IqhRqDMliBVoEcihuDMBYphDOBTA DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=6APdrewqDZZdLC2COWmiXxbtOSRGw63NurY1elHBvfo=; b=lST4mlqEBn+pAkhJag1xnpsZ1OAkX0Lv2LPCuL37JcwGtcCbPPrIDpaWQ/leEhGRaL 4XD/AB6fXFN4UbSI68Rh8QnAJG8TyOcaQeYwwXmSlM5VPw6ZgduXiY6b1miSA2AYVEDd mpKo3/1JPkE4E860JkpMqNXpboUnX7MG7Yme1RAmq0SROrBpt3kQm7bRu7CAdcNBwCfL j7x+JY9bLiVntNzthGdpg27PEzEAIbwbu0GdV+k3XJQ0LyXXH6HZd0NhcJDUVpHmShwT B1lFEVXZ56PebFnaPne+GF2+zjQi+9VuCSX1T5BT68QlVPMiZTGdXwEjZjyWy8talGf0 D4Bg== From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:31:09 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: P4ZS_exVjnbwoWPY7qx6us3fr34 To: Scott Rollins organ...@gmail.com Cc: OpenStreetMap Talk Mailing List t...@openstreetmap.org, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org, OpenStreetMap US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Role of the Wiki X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe No place to learn what to do? The wiki may be overwhelming, sometimes outdated and incorrect, or even a vehicle for personal opinions on tagging and whatnot, but there are definitely resources to help you get started. All OSM editors have useful presets for common features, you can't really go wrong with those. The Map Features page[1] describes widely used common tags. learnosm.org is there to guide you through first steps in OSM. And if you're looking for help or if you don't feel confident about your edits, there's these and other mailing lists, IRC, help.osm.org and forum.osm.org. OpenStreetMap US hosts regular Virtual Mappy Hours you can join from anywhere. There's Facebook, LinkedIn and Google+ pages where helpful members are always willing to answer questions. Some of these resources may require a little effort on your part, and they may not all be as well advertised or interconnected as they should be, but you have to realize that OpenStreetMap is eternally a work in progress, run entirely by volunteers who are working really hard to keep up with and channel that progress. You are apparently willing to spend your time reading these mailing lists, so why not be constructive about it and either ask questions to help you along in your mapping efforts, or make some actionable suggestions about how we can do a better job explaining mapping and tagging to new contributors? Best, Martijn [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Scott Rollins organ...@gmail.com wrote: I'll just say that, whether bug or feature, this message perfectly encapsulates why I am unwilling to spend my time working on OSM. I don't want to waste my time, and by not having a good place to learn what to do, I have to do a whole lot of work to figure out whether the additions I'm making will be useful or simply clutter up the database. I love
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Feature proposal: proposed expanded address tagging scheme for US
Hello all, I don't know a lot about this, but apparently there is a current effort in the U.S. to improve the addressing in rural areas so emergency responders can locate addresses more easily. It might be advantageous to look at their addressing scheme to see if there is something we can use. It also could be advantageous to be congruent with that scheme, if it works for us. Also, this effort could be a source of address data in the future. Does anyone have more detail? Charlotte X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.183 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlYBANM0rVBZELOWkWdsb2JhbABEgmy/KhYOAQEBAQkLCwcUBCOCHgEBAQQBAQFDCh4KBAMBAgYBCxgJFgcIAwEFAwIBAgEVAS8TBgIBAQGICAEDB79FjEqETQOIJzWKdYNJhE+NY4E+ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:19:41 -0500 From: Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net Organization: OpenStreetMap Foundation US Chapter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Feature proposal: proposed expanded address tagging scheme for US X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe ok, thanks, carl. this helps. i'm working on an emergency services related project right now and it's helpful to learn about these things. the next question is this. supposing we implement Steven's proposal, how does this help in emergency services mapping projects, that is, what does this breakout facilitate for us? richard On 11/20/12 10:05 PM, Carl Anderson wrote: All, This proposal is a good thing, provided that it does not deprecate current tagging uses. From my experiences in emergency services (911), emergency management (FEMA and State/County EMA), and location finding I find that it is often very important to know what the colloquial core phrase of an address is. A Colloquial core phrase is something we all use everyday. We shorten names down to a useful, but still meaningful, core. If I were to say that I was at 14th and K, many of my DC friends would know that I was at the intersection of 14 St NW and K St NW. My friends who are not familiar with DC could guess the location given a bit of prompting. In easy cases it is easy to determine the colloquial core phrase of an address. Sometimes however, it is not easy to guess the correct local use for a street name or address. For instance my friends in Alpharetta, GA all know that North Point Mall Blvd is not the North version of Point Mall Blvd, but instead is the Blvd at North Point Mall. My friends farther away from Alpharetta, GA probably don't know this. Additionally, many times I have seen St. Lo Dr. mangled by well intentioned people into Street Lo Drive or once and a while into Street Lo Doctor. Of course Saint-Lô is is a well known place in France with a name derived from Saint Laud. Consider how often people mangle the intersection roads Boulevard and Boulevard Drive in Atlanta, GA. It is about even how well intentioned people convert both names into one of the two valid choices. Steven's proposal creates a mechanism for local knowledge and local colloquial use to be added into OSM. In turn this data, when present, will allow people who interact with the public to better understand the intent of the public in a more precise fashion. The parsing steps move the bits that are not part of the core into well known tags that can be unambiguously dealt with. The unambiguous aspect is equally important as abbreviation usage is often lossy. For instance some US jurisdictions use BL as an abbreviation for Boulevard and others use BL for Bluff. (In the emergency services world hilarity does not ensue). If OSM had such names as Braided Blanket Bluff in the proposed tagging scheme If we were to use the proposal as additional tags to the current existing tags people could add to OSM data to the limit of their local knowledge and when they knew the common local usage could, correctly, completely and unambiguously fill out the parsed tags that Steven has proposed. C. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom
Re: [Talk-us] Newly tweaked TIGER road names tiles
Toby, We do have to be careful with these. An earlier effort created some incorrect tagging in the Four Corners area, where I map, --W Road (a county road in SW Colorado) ended up as West Road and S Road as South Road. --And, N36 (for Navajo 36) ended up as North 36, as did a lot of Navajo roads. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. Luckily I have a contact at Navajo Division of Transportation, who assured me they have no roads named North. I still find these from time to time, so a lot of incorrect tags were created. But, if you've got a good way to do it, great! It sure is tedious to do them manually. Charlotte At 01:40 PM 11/18/2012, you wrote: As we briefly discussed during the virtual mappy hour last week, I have managed to wrangle some TIGER data and do some automated expansion of abbreviated street names on the TIGER road name tiles. The results can be seen in a new tile layer. You can preview it here: http://tile.osm.osuosl.org/tiles/tiger2012_roads_expanded/preview.html#17/37.79816/-122.24627 I just added the appropriate URLs for the new layer to the TIGER 2012 page on the wiki so you can use them in JOSM and Potlatch as well: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_2012 Since this is a brand new tile layer, nothing is cached in the CDN so requests might be a little slower than normal at first. I am fairly certain about the accuracy of the process and the checks I have performed all came back with good results. But of course TIGER being such a large and varied data set, there might be an odd edge case lurking somewhere so it would be great if some people could check their areas and make sure they don't see anything odd. The other tweak I made after a suggestion from Ian was to draw the tiles in two layers. One drawn first with only lines and then another layer with only names on top of it. This means that road names will always appear on top of road lines. This avoids roads obscuring names and improves readability. Technical details: This was *not* done by doing simple string matching. I downloaded all of the Feature Names Relationship files which contain separate fields with codes for directional, type and qualifier prefixes/suffixes. Then I composed the name one element at a time from these fields. This gave me a mapping from TLID to expanded street name which I then imported into a new column in the existing table that is used to render the tiles. Then it was just a simple matter of telling the mapnik style to look at the new expanded name column. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Ghost suburbs
Hello, While doing the Maproulette, I came upon a large area east of El Paso (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.7234lon=-106.1106zoom=13) with hundreds of neatly laid-out roads tagged residential that are only weathered tracks. Apparently, there were plans to build extensive suburban areas, but they never were built. How should this be tagged? Just make them all tracks? Apologies if this has been discussed before Best, Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Ghost suburbs
Richard, All good advice, some of which I can't do because I'm nowhere near El Paso. It looks like there's no impediment to driving on the roads, if anyone would want to. Where they empty onto a paved road, there are some smears of dirt, so someone is using them. And there don't seems to be fences or gates. It is interesting that some actually have names. I wonder what the city or county government would have to say about this. Might be worth a call (by me). Do we have anyone in the El Paso area who might have a ground view of this? --C X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.189 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=K4+g7lqI c=1 sm=1 a=6ydbDpixB9c9jtIM301iOw==:17 a=dCHQBi5qjXwA:10 a=7onPniHZGCwA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=PClR7n_L:8 a=4MJky3HcU8UA:10 a=595fbENk:8 a=w4L8CiaNGqUigYjJ2EEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=BdHZsLrCs2gA:10 a=6ydbDpixB9c9jtIM301iOw==:117 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:16:46 -0500 From: Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net Organization: OpenStreetMap Foundation US Chapter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Ghost suburbs X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe On 11/17/12 6:56 AM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: Hello, While doing the Maproulette, I came upon a large area east of El Paso (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.7234lon=-106.1106zoom=13) with hundreds of neatly laid-out roads tagged residential that are only weathered tracks. Apparently, there were plans to build extensive suburban areas, but they never were built. How should this be tagged? Just make them all tracks? Apologies if this has been discussed before if they didn't exist, the highway=proposed would be ok. but since they exist, i'd go with highway=track if they never got signs, i'd remove the names, or change the tag to name_proposed or something like that, but you can't really tell that from the maproulette vantage point. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: 'creative' mapping
Martijn, I'll bet this was a crop maze created by some farmer. Then the field got plowed so the maze was gone. The mapper seems to have traced the maze while the crops still were in the field. There is a Google map community for crop mazes. Some of them are very inventive and beautiful. Anyone else have and idea? Charlotte X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.185 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AowEAAhiolBZELOWkWdsb2JhbABEgmyBF4FQvhsIIwEBAQEJCwsHFAQjgiAGAQE3BgEFCh4MAgECAQIGBxArCAgDAR4FAQwBBQEiEwUEh28DDwEDB5tNjiGBCoVIDYlOAQUMkmkDiFqCKohLgi2BHI1GFimEMQ DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=dK7qWnO4Ohei3a/n75Gi09PswmztnjlP8fowOAFFApo=; b=xmsnzjW8ERiTlArUftZsiJE8zRL3rVNYzaqR389KsT2g4zYK8BUqGEhclieFoyEtmB jqTzDzHs8heL6uRo6NODZI2uG2o5rzQT3PBjnt10E0CVuUbYNggOtq5ZP67lJDdURe90 2IDTBbwjT3WY5u7SL5fSu/A4TMZOSGEjj4I2zYgr3jcuczhfQcxXIqSjGFtJ6ONelBbT FPFI05tvl+l99QTNMNxh/Hpf+ix/U+SnpN2AQFB+b37NQTg8ZSu8RVaO1sizwvrCkKnG RH9KHO8Mh/de9Hgbs2EL9+9VGysIJq2oP0TqlegGdex//+uVPdBD5MG3qZ7CuXAsjEYp NEdQ== From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:11:38 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: INpZT9G5LMSg4gX-TOkdOlD8wWc To: OpenStreetMap US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-us] 'creative' mapping X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe I got this from a MapRoulette user: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.414586lon=-84.815333zoom=18layers=M Anyone know what this is about? -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] What's the Google event page for Mappy Hour?
Hey folks, I understand the link to Mappy Hour will be posted on the Google event page, but what is the link to the Google event page? Thanks. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: [OPC2012] Operation Cowboy - Mission statement
Hello all, I think that mapping a desert area could be a good way to get people involved, because 1. It's an area that has an urgent need for mapping and 2. Much of it is virgin territory, so even beginning mappers could contribute a lot just by correcting TIGER street alignments. I also think it's a good idea to limit the area, so we have a good chance of making a visible impact. To that end, I would like to suggest West Virginia. I recently encountered a rural area of W.V. while doing the Maproulette. Not only were the roads badly aligned, but the local TIGER technician named every driveway with the same name as the street to which it was connected. Charlotte X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.185 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuQAAEbcmFBZELOWkWdsb2JhbABEgmyCZL1fIwEBAQEJCwsHFAQjgiAGAQE3BgEBBAoeCgICAwECBi0VAQcIAwEFAwIBAgEVAUIGAgEBAYdyAQMPAQMHpzyDKoEKAQWFDwJIBYlWBo8zgyWTUYItgRyET41J X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 mail-in-06.arcor-online.net 61BF710C1D8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=arcor.de; s=mail-in; t=1352195954; bh=obzHINph+cSEPS1WDueKIJsxzzpML5ITSLtYAMD4VOU=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=r68HZu28+DO+650TMJt8gUIG1Mxkdop/ZTEYhVM2E47cEmonBmGK9fQVXHsJ305i8 djWN5AUKGb4Ihnqizk3ZFRj25mGPS9g8p4EmgMSxFoI85cglspkFLhal7650s+ihQ9 y1hSvY+jqIKs/d0Zt5RW3hnyu4YmvmdipxOLefEQ= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:59:13 +0100 From: Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121011 Thunderbird/16.0.1 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-us] [OPC2012] Operation Cowboy - Mission statement X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe Hi, as I don't read any discussions about where and what to map, I would like to bring up this essential question again. Just a few possible ideas (that can be also mixed): - adding new details (as buildings, landuse, ...) - fixing TIGER (alignment, classification, ...) - focus on the coast areas only (big cities) - focus on the countryside (where no one has been before) - focus on n states (and making there a huge step) - ... cya, Matthias ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] What is the status of the Toolbox?
Hello, What is the status of the Toolbox? When will it be fixed? It is difficult to do any editing without those tools. And, whose idea was that banner? Did they ask anyone before they implemented it? Did they test to make sure it didn't break anything? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] What happened to the Toolbox?
Hello all, This morning there is an interesting banner across the bottom of the Potlatch 2 editing screen, but the Toolbox cannot be seen, even though Show Toolbox is checked under Options. Is this just a temporary glitch? Best, Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?
Hello, John makes some excellent points. The key to making this work would be to prioritize it. Otherwise, it's a neverending Remap-a-Tron. I don't have any strong feelings about how that should be done. I'm sure someone will come up with an excellent way to do that. Charlotte. At 02:33 PM 9/29/2012, you wrote: Statements that we should fix all the unedited TIGER data express a Great Idea. They are, however, rather ambitious statements, and will require more than a few weeks to completely realize. As such, cleaning up US TIGER data is a Long Term goal, and does not say anything regarding how we might prioritize and coordinate work to realize this goal. Given the size of the effort, it's crucial that work is organized in smaller, more bite-sized pieces, so that we can all celebrate the completion every few weeks of a portion of the work. Here are some suggestions: Order US counties by population, largest first, review primary, secondary and tertiary ways (NE2 and other have been systematically reviewing interstates and other number routes over the last few months), compare with TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and register road geometry to aerial photography or Order US counties by population, largest first, and review all ways (in way class order) that have not been edited in the last six months, compare with TIGER 2012, correct way attributes, and register road geometry to aerial photography or I will also point out that the connectivity errors I mentioned earlier are, in fact, largely a result of unedited TIGER data (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixuphttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup, for example) and do present a well defined subset of issues to focus upon. A secondary, and perhaps less obvious, benefit of addressing road network connectivity issues is the significant increase in quality of routes generated by tools such as OSRM (http://project-osrm.org/http://project-osrm.org/). There exists significant interest on OSM as a data source for routing and navigation applications (http://www.slideshare.net/dnesbitt61/sotm-us-routinghttp://www.slideshare.net/dnesbitt61/sotm-us-routing, and others), and showing progress in this area could be a large boost to the rate of OSM adoption. In any case, it's important to come to agreement on a set of constrained, well defined short term goals that demonstrate steady progress to help keep everyone engaged and motivated. Best, On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Charlotte Wolter mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com wrote: I also think it would be great, if we could focus on unedited TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be some technical challenges, but overal it would be a good thing. I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I think there was discussion that would be technically difficult and also might produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that never have had a name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by the redaction, that might be one way to restore the names from TIGER that were lost. Some things I would like to see in the future include editing all the national parks. I know that there is data on their Web sites, which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a good thing to do. Best, Charlotte At 12:40 AM 9/29/2012, you wrote: I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean up all the crazy unedited original Tiger roads. These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a name but are still the original Tiger data and have not been edited. (except for the balrog-kun bot). You could just identify spots not closer together than (say) 1 mile and that would allow the editor to have a nice piece of real estate to clean up each time. It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) overlay and Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which road goes where and you see an enormous improvement in the map for relatively small efforts. If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; TIGER data was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good and move on, but at least that area has now been eyeballed by a real person who probably will be able to add in a few new TIGER 2012 roads if they have the overlay active. ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 tel:%2B1-310-597-4040+1-310-597-4040 mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron level 2 complete! Suggestions for level 3?
I also think it would be great, if we could focus on unedited TIGER. That would clean up the map a lot. There may be some technical challenges, but overal it would be a good thing. I know someone suggested roads without a name, though I think there was discussion that would be technically difficult and also might produce a lot of focus on country roads and tracks that never have had a name. However, if we limit it to roads changed by the redaction, that might be one way to restore the names from TIGER that were lost. Some things I would like to see in the future include editing all the national parks. I know that there is data on their Web sites, which, I think, is all public domain. That would be a good thing to do. Best, Charlotte At 12:40 AM 9/29/2012, you wrote: I think the most necessary cleanup to the USA OSM data is to clean up all the crazy unedited original Tiger roads. These can easily be identified simply as those ways that have a name but are still the original Tiger data and have not been edited. (except for the balrog-kun bot). You could just identify spots not closer together than (say) 1 mile and that would allow the editor to have a nice piece of real estate to clean up each time. It is quite fun doing this since (with the help of TIGER 2012) overlay and Bing imagery, it is usually possible to determine which road goes where and you see an enormous improvement in the map for relatively small efforts. If the remap-a-tron identifies an area where all the original; TIGER data was correct, then no problems, we just flag it as good and move on, but at least that area has now been eyeballed by a real person who probably will be able to add in a few new TIGER 2012 roads if they have the overlay active. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
It intersects with a major road atonly one end. After the discussion, I'm sticking with my original primary road code. Maybe some day they will finish it, but right now it's most just a two-lane highway. We'll see if the next iteration of Bing photos shows that they are working on it again. At this point, they don't seem to be doing anything to finish the work that was started. Charlotte At 05:47 PM 9/14/2012, you wrote: On Sep 14, 2012 7:06 PM, Charlotte Wolter mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com wrote:         I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16         It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop.         So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? Probably. Without looking at aerial photography, I'd say it sounds like a super-2, or at least a two-lane expressway; the tags expressway=yes an/or motorroad=yes might be applicable. Also, if the ends of this improved section are near other major roads, then highway=trunk might make sense. Sorry for the uncertain reply but it's not convenient to closely inspect these things on my phone. Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Schizophrenic highway
Hello, I'm working on US 50 near Trenton, Ill. Here's the location: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=38.61248lon=-89.68529zoom=16 It looks like, at one point there were plans to turn this into a motorway. In two spots in a 25-mile stretch, intersections have been turned into cloverleafs and the highway divided. In other locations, roads that used to intersect US 50 have been turned into overpasses. There are even a couple of bridges for a second lane but no evidence of any construction work actually to build that lane. The vast majority of the highway is still two-lane blacktop. So how does one tag this, as a primary road that just has a couple of cloverleafs? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Consensus on SR for state route versus state abbreviation?
, they should make sure all relevant route relations exist and are correct. Trying to squeeze all that information into a single string with a rigid syntax is optimizing for a use case that essentially doesn't exist. On Sep 12, 2012 8:59 PM, Charlotte Wolter mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com wrote: Hello all,         Was there ever consensus on whether to use SR (or some variation on that) for state highways versus an abbreviation of the state name (CA or NY). I remember that there was discussion, but I don't remember if there was consensus.         Thanks. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 tel:%2B1-310-597-4040+1-310-597-4040 mailto:techl...@techlady.comtechl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Consensus on SR for state route versus state abbreviation?
Hello all, Was there ever consensus on whether to use SR (or some variation on that) for state highways versus an abbreviation of the state name (CA or NY). I remember that there was discussion, but I don't remember if there was consensus. Thanks. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Large area of deleted streets in Riverside, Calif.
Toby, Yes, it looks really different. Thanks! If you have time, a few blocks further north, around Mission Boulevard, missing streets reappear. Actually the 2012 stuff looks better than earlier unedited TIGER. Maybe they are getting better? --C At 10:44 PM 9/10/2012, you wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: Hello all, In the process of doing the Remap-a-Tron, I found a huge area of Riverside, Calif., where most side streets have been deleted. It's along the Pomona Freeway, east of the Chino Freeway, which is the far eastern end of the Los Angeles metropolitan area. I'm sure all these streets were supplied originally by TIGER, so I'm not sure why they were deleted by the redaction. I certainly don't know street names in the Riverside area (I live about 60 miles west). Is there any way to replace the TIGER data for this area? If most of it really is missing then it might be a good candidate to re-import from new TIGER data as I have done in some other hard hit areas of LA. It would help if you supply a permalink to the exact area. Ah, I think I found it. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.02107lon=-117.72431zoom=15layers=M I will try my TIGER 2011 magic on it. Maybe even 2012? Wonder what the chances are that my 2011 ogr2osm translation will Just Work with 2012 data... As it turns out, chances were good. How does the area look now? Guess it was actually a couple of blocks north and east of the center of the permalink I sent. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Remap-a-tron observation
Mike, Thanks for this information. I have been worrying about the unamed streets that I have been editing. Again, I have to ask, why wasn't a tool like this included in the original redaction? If someone had planned ahead and given the membership this tool and tools like Remap-a-Tron, the whole process would have been easier. We probably should have done Remap-a-Tron before anything was deleted to find and change work done by nonsigners. This is definitely something to remember for the future. Charlotte At 05:36 AM 9/11/2012, you wrote: Just a note to those participating with the awesome Remap-a-tron tool - please take time to look up or verify the road name from TIGER. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_2011 Use the URLs in the section Tiles in Potlatch or JOSM.You can also substitute the 2012 for 2011 in the URLs to use the latest TIGER information. If you come across a large deleted/empty subdivision - feel free to let us know on the list; it is easier in those cases for one of us to plug in the whole subdivision from the TIGER data. Post the Permalink from Potlatch to give the location. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Large area of deleted streets in Riverside, Calif.
Hello all, In the process of doing the Remap-a-Tron, I found a huge area of Riverside, Calif., where most side streets have been deleted. It's along the Pomona Freeway, east of the Chino Freeway, which is the far eastern end of the Los Angeles metropolitan area. I'm sure all these streets were supplied originally by TIGER, so I'm not sure why they were deleted by the redaction. I certainly don't know street names in the Riverside area (I live about 60 miles west). Is there any way to replace the TIGER data for this area? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] The Remap-A-Tron, Second Wave
I told Martijn the toold would be a great way to do Projects of the Month or Projects of the Week. Maybe there would be a way to track who did what, so we can recognize people who did a lot of work. Charlotte At 02:20 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: A fantastic tool! If it can be expanded to finding other issues even better. Dale On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Martijn van Exel mailto:m...@rtijn.orgm...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi, On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Serge Wroclawski mailto:emac...@gmail.comemac...@gmail.com wrote: A similar query could be used to find overlapping ways which are of the same level and do not share a way. This could help with routing. There are a lot of queries like this which wouldn't be hard to do. - Serge Interestingly I was just discussing overlapping ways with Telenav yesterday. This will be a very useful thing to detect, but as these overlapping ways are not visible on the Mapnik map so the R-a-T may not be so useful for that. Some folks over at Telenav are developing a JOSM plugin that works in a similar way (iterating over error points pseudo-randomly and letting you fix them one by one) and may be better suited to these 'invisible' problems. Martijn -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.comhttp://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Announcing Remap-a-tron
I did, too, but it was a road very close to the United States, just a mile or two over the border (the Colorado River) from Arizona. However, the Remap-a-Tron tool is so good, who cares? Why wasn't something like this planned along with the original redaction? Charlotte At 10:47 AM 9/3/2012, you wrote: Martijn van Exel wrote: Although this tool currently only covers the US, it would be relatively straightforward (given proper server resources) to deploy it for other regions or even worldwide, which is why I include talk@ as well. Umm. I just got a road in Mexico! ;) Alexander ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway ref again.
Alan, I think you've identified another area where clarity is needed: What order should be used when entering multiple refs. I tend to do it with interstates first, then US routes, then state routes, within each group by number, low to high. However, a definite rule would be helpful. Charlotte At 11:29 PM 7/26/2012, you wrote: At 2012-07-26 18:48, Clay Smalley wrote: On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Apollinaris Schöll ascho...@gmail.com wrote: - multiple refs in tag with a semicolon: Many of them had been entered not too long ago and are clearly not a damage from the redaction. Wasn't the consensus to use relations? In the past I have only used the ref of the most important route on the way itself. This is what is rendered on all maps. secondary routes are only in the relation in case of overlaps. What if they're equally important and recognized (like Interstate 80/90 through Ohio and Indiana, or US 1/9 in New Jersey)? The consumers should not assume anything from the order. Personally, I enter them in alphanumeric order (I think - its been a while). - state routes. In the past most states have been mapped with state number, now many refs have been changed to SR number. According to official documents in California SR is correct. road signs are mixed in California.Most common is number only but SR or state highway ore state route is possible too. BUT we have used the state number for so long and acrossmany states. should we really change? Generally, the state abbreviation is correct (except in cases like Texas with FM and Loop and Spur routes). The use of SR and SH for state highways was mainly (unnecessarily) brought on by NE2. I guess both are correct, but the former is more descriptive and uniform. I support using the state abbrev, as this was the way that seemed to be favored in the documentation years ago, and doesn't require another tag (which *state*?) to disambiguate. Alternatively, moving the prefix to the network tag is OK, too: ref=I 80;US 101;CA 62 becomes ref=80;101;62 + network=US:I;US;US:CA Once editors do a better job of creating those relations and keeping them whole, and consumers correctly handle them, I'm ok with moving the tags to relations. At that point, it would make sense to move all the tags at once. Having them in both places doesn't seem all that maintainable. I also use: ref=FH nn - USFS Forest Highway ref=FR nXn[n][.n] - USFS Forest Route/Road ref=FT nXn[n][.n] - USFS Forest Trail For county roads in California, I've used: ref=CR Xn[n] + network=US:CA:county_name but this probably needs to be changed to remove the county_name part for the roads that are part of the state-wide numbering Xn[n] system, so as to be able to distinguish them from individual counties' road numbers. That is, I think the statewide-numbered county roads, like S14 in Orange County, should be: ref=CR S14 + network=US:CA:County while San Bernardino County Road 53156 should be: ref=CR 53156 + network=US:CA:San Bernardino -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack
Ian, I read through their Web site. They used Potlatch 1 for two pilot projects in crowdsourcing (yes, they used the word) topographic data. Apparently they were pleased enough with the results to plan to move ahead, at some point, with crowdsourced topographic mapping. I hope they have taken a look at Potlatch 2. They also mentioned OSM several times on a couple of Web pages, which was nice publicity. Charlotte At 02:50 PM 7/22/2012, you wrote: Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information about it in the near future. On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber mailto:adam.schreiber+...@gmail.comadam.schreiber+...@gmail.com wrote: Ian, The link appears to be dead. Was the video taken down? Cheers, Adam On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees mailto:ian.d...@gmail.comian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps are starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is, think of it like OpenStreetMap for the US Government. Volunteer mappers correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure there are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project and is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this day. For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt the OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work has finally been released. Check out this video for more information: http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in action. Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it! -Ian ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] LA part of the map essentially is unusable
Richard, Terrific! Thanks. Charlotte At 01:49 AM 7/20/2012, you wrote: Charlotte Wolter wrote: Got it. Thanks for the explanation. So, how do I load shapefiles into a separate layer? I need someone to walk me through it. How would I do that, if I wanted to get things like street names (and the other TIGER data)? I'll post a how-to at the start of next week - the new version of P2 needs to be deployed on the servers, but once that's done it'll be easy. And yes, it'll include pulling through street names. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Re-LA-part-of-the-map-essentially-is-unusable-tp5717315p5717484.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Map of bot node edits -- working on I 40
Hello, It was suggested that we tell the list which interstates we are working on to avoid conflicts. Toby's new tool just alerted me to issues on I-40 west of Flagstaff. Since I know that road well, I have started work on them. I also did a lot of work on I-40 from Gallup to Flagstaff, and that has fewer issues, so I'll do that next unless someone else is working on it. Also, we probably should communicate about the interstates using our OSM inboxes so we don't flood the list with stuff. I'm techlady. Charlotte At 11:57 PM 7/19/2012, you wrote: Alright... I got something running. http://ni.kwsn.net/~toby/OSM/maps/redaction.html It is a map that shows all nodes (but ONLY nodes) touched by the bot in the US and Canada. Actually I thought I was doing only the lower 48 but apparently Maperitive decided that I wanted more. I think it cuts off at about 67 degrees north. Red means a node was deleted, blue means it was modified. Modified could mean location change and/or tag changes. It only goes up to zoom 11 and that will probably be all. This is partially technical (I'm rendering tiles using Maperitive and pushing its limits already) and partially legal. This is not intended as a map to let you retrieve the location of deleted nodes by decliners. It is simply a guide to finding out where the bot had the most impact and to direct remapping efforts. Also, there will be no updates to this map. There isn't much to update once a node is deleted and redacted. So don't expect things to disappear as you remap. Anyway, Hope it helps a little. I have a couple of ideas for other layers too. I'll have to see what I can come up with this weekend. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Post bot cleanup
Hello all, The damage in LA is much more severe: missing segments of freeways, roads gone. I thought the bot was supposed to be smart enough to subnstitute TIGER data when eliminating data by nonsigners. But that has not been done. I am finding many streets (and not ones too new to be in TiGER) that simply have been deleted. This is very disappointing and, to my mind, wrongheaded. Poorly done! Why did the bot people never talk to anyone working on LA? That would have been important since it is an area with so much damage. --C X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.189 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoQCADgUCFBZELOWlGdsb2JhbABFuTkIIgEBAQEJCyYEI4IhAQUBAQEPAiYGAQUKHgsBAgECAQIGAQYFCyIJCAgDAR0BBQ0BBQEcBhgdh1wDDAEDn1QJA48UaoRjDYlIAQUMi0CDaIMoA4hNgiCKV4ETjRk+hB0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=G7ZU6uf0pnkWjijSN467fJeIeN49Klx+hvQSHvjBu9w=; b=YVHCL6grieBm7b/raTsjC2h1uQm6et8IHYqJ4dvTSWKZQLL4CrqGtXeDf5w3l8jauy QI84uSWTJtXgYvXWePfxcu5NieYdbnafU5pc5SKxFVFDu280Rmi2DqUThgTTfEo5ogfo hX+AYoHJKTsQ06rEkoCZjCeyve8048AfGXTOxN7N1XRq3UuQayvZfayhrgjsdZv5kM1r rmkJhMmMQ2zGPog5VkXbcFxADsu0ZHos6O0BZfijBWTRrI4GNPx8Ri9+8dHmqkKZrXa6 yuz97SfTJv3vJvdRN2eQfIaAfPyIqFsWJjFONKdutjdkFmw+GwqSBSERkKVYJa2Sk7s+ D1xw== From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:14:56 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nOUrHSBIGB-4NGDL5SEmD1Oahvw To: Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com Cc: talk-us talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe Hi, On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: [..] Any other common problems that people have seen? I get the road spaghetti in non-motorway settings too. Example in Salt Lake: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2vwbfnz2ag0sjd/Java%20OpenStreetMap%20Editor_2012-07-19_08-05-05.png They're usually easy to spot, but searching for user:OSMF Redaction Account in JOSM helps too. Phil's broken motorways I've seen too. Other things I've seen quite a bit but may be specific to my local pet disagreers: * Empty areas, or remnants of areas, that used to be landuse or admin boundaries. * Vanished traffic signals. * Vanished metadata on ways (maxspeed, lanes, access, highway type). This is much harder to spot, except where a part of a way has suddenly become residential where the rest is still tertiary. -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Missing streets
This is how a section of burbank looks today. Where are4 the supposed TIGER streets?? http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=34.10994lon=-118.26153zoom=17 Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] LA part of the map essentially is unusable
Everyone, Having looked over the damage and deletions for the last hour, I feel the redaction has left the LA map essentially unusable. Huge blocks of streets are missing, including major roads and some sections of freeways. Do we think that the US map can have any validity if it doesn't include LA? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Missing streets
How did I get that idea? From other members who said that data would be prerserved. The reason I had to rely on reports from other members was that there was no information from those doing the redaction. They sent out no notices about what would be done or how it would be done. There was lots of speculation on the lists, but no actual information. The schedule always was sketchy and uncertain, again because nothing was announced until the last minute. April 1 came and went and there were no updates about progress on the redaction or when it would begin until a couple of weeks ago. In short, communication sucked. Apparently no one felt it was important to let people know the details of what was happening. --C At 08:31 AM 7/19/2012, you wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: This is how a section of burbank looks today. Where are4 the supposed TIGER streets?? How did you get the impression that the redaction bot was going to import? Also, some mappers chose to wait until the redaction bot ran to remap. Others chose to remap in advance. That's fine. Why would you criticize them? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Post bot cleanup
Do you have any idea how big LA is? You can't just delete huge sections of the San Fernando Valley and start over. Start over from what? With no street names? That's just not feasible. --C At 08:37 AM 7/19/2012, you wrote: Charlotte Wolter wrote: Hello all, The damage in LA is much more severe: missing segments of freeways, roads gone. I thought the bot was supposed to be smart enough to subnstitute TIGER data when eliminating data by nonsigners. But that has not been done. I am finding many streets (and not ones too new to be in TiGER) that simply have been deleted. This is very disappointing and, to my mind, wrongheaded. Poorly done! Why did the bot people never talk to anyone working on LA? That would have been important since it is an area with so much damage. --C I completely understand your point. I, on the other hand, prefer to work with a blank slate. I'd personally prefer an area with no streets to an area with several broken, disconnected roads. I honestly would end up just deleting them anyway. Just my two Lincolns. Alexander ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Post bot cleanup
Serge, First, I am among the majority of OSM members who do not program or write code. Yet, we also contribute, heavily. I don't think writing code makes one some kind of special contributor. Second, I am aware that many thousands of hours of volunteeer work went into this. I also know that we had to do it. Still, there has been a great deal of damage in a major urban area. As for open and transparent, with that I'm not so sure. It may have been open and transparent if you know how to write code, but I saw little nontechnical discussion. Those of us who use only Potlatch were kind of on the sidelines. It's not enough just to do a good job technically. The process has to take into account the map in general and specific instances, such as LA. We could have used a blars bot to process work by that member who often simply changed or deleted TIGER data. Anything to prevent the scale of damage that's there now. So, now, what can be done to fix it? Are there tools? And will they be publicized or will we have to find out about them through side channels (which is how I found geofabrik.de)? The idea of a tools that highlights places that have been changed seems like a good start. --C At 09:19 AM 7/19/2012, you wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: This is very disappointing and, to my mind, wrongheaded. Poorly done! When I see comments like this, I feel angry, because this bot came from hard working volunteers who give up their valuable time. Not only are these particular volunteers valuable for their mapping, but also for their tireless work dealing with the worldwide politics of the license transition, and of the very difficult technical issues associated with fixing an entire planet's work of OpenStreetMap data. The redaction isn't something that was dreamed up yesterday, but represents years of discussion, a completely open and transparent process, and months of codification and testing. If you had constructive input to give, there was a well documented time and place for that, or better yet would have been an offer to contribute working code. Comments like this do nothing to further the discussion or make any forward progress. If you want to fix the map using TIGER data, TIGER 2011 tiles are provided for remapping, or, better still would be on the ground surveying. As for the feasibility- most nations have been mapped with no government provided data. If most of Europe, South America, Africa, and developing nations can manage to map without government data, I think the citizens of the nation's second most populated city can manage. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] LA part of the map essentially is unusable
Jeremy, Achtung! If only one could just fix it. Check it out for yourself. I am still assuming that you are volunteering. Charlotte At 10:56 AM 7/19/2012, you wrote: just stop this back and forth and start fixing the map. already this morning i rebuilt part of the 91 / 71 and ACH. ...just fix it. On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: So, are you volunteering? Anyone else? At 09:06 AM 7/19/2012, you wrote: Charlotte Wolter schrieb: Having looked over the damage and deletions for the last hour, I feel the redaction has left the LA map essentially unusable. Huge blocks of streets are missing, including major roads and some sections of freeways. Sounds like there's a lot of work for the community to do. I'm sure there is a community in LA with the knowledge to put data there that is correct and license-clean. If not, a good chance to build it up! :) Robert Kaiser ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] LA part of the map essentially is unusable
Alan, Touche! Yes, someone let us down and badly. Considering all the work we did, to have this result is really dispiriting We need some tools so we at least can assess what needs to be done. Has anyone started to work on, as at least started to think about, the tool mentioned by Old Topo Depot earlier, one that would show where changes were made? That sounded like a great idea. Also, did anyone answer my question about importing small bits of TIGER for Burbank, the San Fernando Valley and South Cental? Meanwhile, I'm going back to sprucing up West LA. After all that time spent in downtown and Glendale, I need a break. I also can't bear the sight of Burbank or South Central. Charlotte At 12:47 PM 7/19/2012, you wrote: At 2012-07-19 09:06, Robert Kaiser wrote: Charlotte Wolter schrieb: Having looked over the damage and deletions for the last hour, I feel the redaction has left the LA map essentially unusable. Huge blocks of streets are missing, including major roads and some sections of freeways. Sounds like there's a lot of work for the community to do. I'm sure there is a community in LA with the knowledge to put data there that is correct and license-clean. If not, a good chance to build it up! :) There was, yes. Even something that might be called momentum. There are those of us that put in literally blood, sweat, tears, and hard cold cash, who are not happy with the actions of those whose job it was to safeguard our work. That is all I will say. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
Phil, Thanks for that info. But, why wasn't it sent out in a general mailing to the members? Lots of people who work assiduously on the maps can't stand the mailing lists (lots of sleep-inducing argument about obscure details of tagging with no final resolution). --C At 01:41 PM 7/19/2012, you wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2012-07-19 14:22 -0600]: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. Eeek! Be very careful with this! The unconnected, untagged nodes were left deliberately to facilitate recreation of roads, particularly the case where a decliner split a TIGER way but did not change its geometry. I've been making use of these nodes in South Carolina to reconstruct the roads there. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Work on Arizona rail lines deleted
Dear US folks, I did a lot of work on the railroad that parallels I-40 across Arizona, from Gallup, N.M., to Flagstaff, Ariz. There are two parallel tracks with different names, but OSM had only one of those tracks. I added the second rail way and numerous side tracks, following the Bing imagery. It was hours and hours of work. Now someone has deleted most of the second line without contacting me or discussing the issue on the mail list. Anyone know anything about this? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Special issues in LA remap
Steve, Thanks for your thoughts, and I hope others in the community will share their views. My view would be that it should be OK to do such a reverse if the person has not signed the new license, particularly when there has been such an enormous number of questionable edits. If it is decided to do reversals, I suggest we start with his most recent changesets and work backward, little by little. Though most of his edits follow a definite pattern, a few appear to be unique, genuine edits much like the work we all do. I'll bet the most recent work is what was done robotically. Also, to give a little more information, many of the edits often show up as intersections that must be deleted and redrawn. This is a particularly time-consuming process, as, I believe, blars knew. Charlotte At 11:56 AM 6/5/2012, you wrote: I have been working on the LA remap, which mostly involves correcting thousands and thousands of edits by a user named blars. The odd thing about the edits that blars did is that they seem to have been done almost robotically. Although many intersections have been changed enough to be marked modified by the OSM Inspector, it's difficul to see what, if anything, was done. The poor street alignments from TIGER have not been corrected. Obvious issues, such as a street that no longer exists, have been ignored. Almost every single dead-end street or those with turning circles are modified, as are many intersections, but, again, bad alignment has not been touched. All this plus the sheer volume of changes makes me think that blars used some kind of bot to make these changes. These edits corrected or added little, except to make the map modified for the new license. Perhaps someone who knows JOSM or other tools better than I do could come up with a way to make these repairs on a mass basis. Or, perhaps, there is a wasy to reverse just what blars did within a certain time frame. I appreciate any help you can give. I've put in hundreds of hours on this and barely scratched the surface. Hello Charlotte: I have been watching the fine efforts in greater LA, with impressive progress and results (in a slow and steady way), so I first wanted to congratulate you on your efforts, and especially reaching out to this talk group. You have done much more than scratch the surface, you (and others) are making real progress. One method may be to revert changesets by blars. Reverting changesets can be controversial (it is polite to ask / reach consensus with the original author, et cetera). However, in the case of an editor who has not agreed to the new CT, it may be correct for OSM users who HAVE agreed to the new CT to establish if/when/how this is an OK/proper thing to do. And then feel OK doing it, and then do it. Technically, reverting a changeset is rather easily done with a JOSM plug-in, which you can read about on OSM's wiki. There is the separate issue of IDENTIFYING which changeset to revert, which can be more difficult and then there is the rather straightforward procedure for doing it, which isn't difficult. But socially, or more properly stated, in the context of reaching OSM consensus, what does our community think of (rather wholesale) reverts of a contributor who has not agreed to the CT? Are we OK with that? Apologies if this is already clearly stated somewhere. But if so, I haven't seen it and it is high time we freshen up how/where we are about this. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Special issues in LA remap
Perhaps some who know JOSM could take a look at the most recent uploads by blars to see what the effect of reverting those changes would be. At 07:36 PM 6/5/2012, you wrote: It seems we are speaking on many levels here. NE2 talks of a redaction bot: powerful scripting so intelligent it is not quite yet built (scripting coupled with lack of consensus isn't power). Charlotte, a seriously dedicated user, wants to reduce skull-aching editing, clearly seeing a pattern of edits by a non-CT user. OSM has a license change coming up. There are intermediate functions going on like facilitation and reminding of purpose and the need to achieve consensus. John says there are likely clever ways to duck out old noisy TIGER and bring in new, better TIGER...(and more talk is required, yes). The right thoughts, words, intentions and actions, right here, right now, pretty much gets us to many finish lines. Let's make this a shining example. Let's decide that powerful (almost magic) bot-logic (like redaction and to perhaps some degree, changeset revert plugin) takes out these blars edits. How? Much of this process might seem like only chalk-and-watercolors to some readers. I see good chunks of it now largely sketched out. Sure, How? are the meaty parts, but we have a lot of meatiness in this project. Think, speak (type), intend, do. Terrific project, this here OSM. Cutting to the chase and finish line, SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted
Paul, It looks like a manhole cover (albeit a rather nice one). Are you sure it's a miniroundabout? :-) Charlotte At 06:46 AM 5/7/2012, you wrote: This one surprised me, was pretty sure that the US didn't have real mini roundabouts, but I just spotted one in Burien, WA. http://g.co/maps/afh8m ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] What happened to the license-change highlighting in Potlatch 2?
Hello all, For the past couple of days in Potlatch 2, the ways and points done by nonagreers to the license have been highlighted in red and orange. I thought, At last, a useful tool for remapping! Considering most of downtown LA has to be redone, it was a blessing to have it. Now, this morning, I had to sign in again, and the highlighting is gone. What happened? It's not like we have an abundance of tools to help us with the remapping. Is this just more of the lack of communication, organization and direction that has characterized the effort so far? Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Parks, etc. Points or outlines
Hi all, In doing the remap in LA, I've run across parks, some schools and other map features that are marked with both points and outlines. For La Cienega Park, the park is outlined, coded park and named. There also is a point for La Cienega Park. My initial impulse was to delete the point, because the outline captured so much more information, but I thought I would ask first. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Here's a weird one
Hello all, Right in the middle of Beverly Hills, on the southeast corner of Carmelita and Arden (north of Santa Monica Boulevard and south of Sunset Bl.) appear the words Pacific Coast Highway. Now, PCH is at least five miles away. And, an examination of the corner with Potlatch 2 produced nothing that would make a point saying Pacific Coast Highway. I don't use JOSM, so maybe there is something there that I can't find with my primitive Potlatch 2. :-) Can anyone solve this mystery? Many thanks in advance. Charlotte Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
