Re: [Texascavers] Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey
Mexican Google News, please. Spanish Google News would include Spain, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Peru, y los Estados Unidos. Por ejemplo, leyendo de Charlie Sheen o de Lindsay Lohanes muy facil! snargle T Apr 25, 2011 02:44:26 PM, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Ted's mention of Spanish Google News led to me find that thecommercial cave nearMonterrey, just had some kind of opening ceremony to its new tourist centerlast week.It sounds nice, with a little museum, and some sort of slide-show area.The video below only shows the front and a brief tour of the inside:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CagzngG1P0QDavid Locklear-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] brochure
In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara
That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I write it. I have to get back to our unexpectedly interrupted construction project in Terlingua, first. DirtDoc
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 -0000 Issue 1297
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 - Issue 1297 Topics (messages 17650 through 17658): Re: New travel warning by State Department 17650 by: Diana Tomchick 17651 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey 17652 by: David 17656 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Re: Fire in the Guads (Last Chance Canyon) 17653 by: Karen Perry 17654 by: Gary McDaniel Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17655 by: S S 17657 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com 17658 by: J. LaRue Thomas Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM, David wrote: For any cavers still pondering whether to travel to Mexico to go caving: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5440.html I am not sure what this says differently from the warning issued in September. However, it clearly states to avoid the state of Tamaulipas, which some cavers would drive thru if they were heading to the Sierra Madre area around Ciuidad Victoria or points further south. It prohibits Federal employees from certain areas. Included are areas are in the state of Jalisco.I states they can't go to Boystown in Laredo. ( Rumors are that place was abandoned by tourist years ago, and I haven't heard of a caver going there in over 15 years. ) Note federal employees are prohibited from travelling several popular routes used by cavers in the Monterrey area.It also says very clearly that the area around the town of San Fernando is dangerous. ( This is the area that has been in the news lately for the mass graves ) It subtly indicates some of the consulate offices have been downsized to the point they are no longer functional. It says to not travel Highway 57 in San Luis Potosi. It subtly warns not to travel to Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, and the beautiful tourist resort of Ixtapa.But more clearly warns to avoid Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Puerto Peñasco. Personally, I think the statement is vague.It does not mention beheadings, or some of the torture methods, and the public displaying of corpses with narco-messages, or that the crime is so bad that the criminals are taking real estate property from people.It doesn't mention all the escaped convicts. It does not mention the bad guys are heavily armed with automatic weapons.Nowhere in the article does it describe what the bad guys look like, so how are you supposed to know how to keep a watchful eye ?Nor does the article in any way refer the tourist to the best up to date news sites on the web related to the narco-crime. It seems designed more to please the Mexican Government, and not hurt their feelings. David - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- If you have enough Spanish, reading Google News for Mexico will give similar info. Anyway, diplomacy is what the State Department does. http://news.google.com/nwshp?edchanged=1ned=es_mx Apropos of nothing, before WWII, British diplomats got tropical duty pay for being stationed in pre-airconditioned Washington, DC.Apr 25, 2011 12:56:40 PM, diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them.Diana* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Diana R. TomchickAssociate ProfessorUniversity of Texas
[Texascavers] Dig it
Anyone who wants to dig on Kiwi's Sink is welcome to contact me. Kiwi's is currently the longest cave in Rolling Oaks (i.e. The Caverhood) and has the potential to tie into the massive lost caverns below the Blanco River as well as Jacob's Well. Well, maybe that is an extremely low potential but it is still a promising cave. We think the BIG passage is just behind a few more rocks... Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:47:11 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you’re correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted “by one or two people that could be included in a larger project”. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read “secret”?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there’s a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don’t recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a “Grotto Only” trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read “DFW”) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From:S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re
[Texascavers] WNS Experiments
Here are a couple of articles about white-nose syndrome in Pennsylvania and recent experiments to find chemicals to help bats survive. Unfortunately they were improperly implemented and all the bats involved died. :-( The video shows how ultraviolet light can be used to visualize WNS infection, which I hadn't heard of before. http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/health-science-multimedia/item/8641-bats Follow up: http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/17982-white-nose-syndrome Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Meeting Minutes
All, Since you probably know by now that I was involved in an epic battle in Del Rio between my kidney stones and morphine, which I'm happy to say has reached a truce, and couldn't attend the Business Meeting, I thought I would chime in. Please delete, if you could care less! MINUTES OF SPRING TSA BUSINESS MEETING 2 April, 2011 (Convened at TSA Spring Convention at Fort Clark Springs, Brackettville). Submitted by Denise Prendergast Officers Present: Ellie Thoene, Vice-Chairman; Michael Cicherski, Treasurer; Denise Prendergast, Secretary Officers Absent: Mark Alman, Chairman TSA Members and Cavers in Attendance: Katie Ahrens, Ron Ralph, Diane Ralph, Lee Jay Graves, Jacqui Thomas, Bill Russell, Logan McNatt, Orion Knox, Carl Kunath, Linda Palit, John Moses, Marvin Miller, Bill Bentley, Christi Burrell, Joe Ranzau, Dave McClung, Eric Bixby, Melissa Hamilton Welcome and Introductions/Chairman's Report: (Thoene and Cicherski). Thoene convened meeting at 5:04 pm. Because Mark Alman had to leave convention unexpectedly (kidney stones), she was next in line and turning meeting over to Cicherski to run. Cicherski said he is not good at Robert's Rules of Order, so please cut him some slack or let him know how to proceed. Vice-Chairman's Report: (Thoene). Thoene thanked everybody for coming to the TSA spring convention. Secretary's Report: (Prendergast). Minutes from the Winter Meeting were not available so approving them was deferred to the next meeting. Treasurer's Report: (Cicherski). Cicherski handed out a Treasurer's Report (one table with years 2007 through 2010 and another with monthly details for 2010). We should do OK financially at convention, about 101 people signed up, do not yet have cooks' expenses. o The summary for years 2007 through 2010 showed that the TSA budgets and actually spends anywhere from approximately $6500 to $8900 each year. The Texas Caver is the major expense, with annual costs ranging from approximately $2600 to $5600. o Through 12/31/2011, the TSA had assets of $8,775.06. o There are 143 current paid members with 57 receiving on-line only versions of The Texas Caver. o Income totaled $10,040.36 for 2010, with expenses totaling $8,589.07 (positive variance of $1.451.29). o The TSA store brought in $1,163.62 in 2010. Standing Committee Reports TSA Projects - (Cicherski). Jim Kennedy absent, so Marvin Miller discussed Government Canyon. Just had their 100th trip celebration, and it was a great success. TSA donated $150 to it, and so did Bexar Grotto. Lots of work to do out there. Cicherski said that Longhorn Caverns is on hold awaiting TPWD approval. True Ron Ralph said that Devil's River State Natural Area is now under state control, and we are working with TPWD on an MOA to begin a karst survey. Hope to start up in the fall. Linda Palit said we may need a new person to head up that project, nothing official yet. Lee Jay said that Colorado Bend State Park has had a lot of people participating, last trip of the year in May or June. * Inner Space Caverns Project (Starting in September) - Planning on cranking up in September, with help from Gerry Geletzke and James Jasek (once he recovers from his heart surgery). TSA Website - (Cicherski). Butch Fralia absent, and Cicherski not sure of status. Membership Committee - (Cicherski). Ryan Monjaras absent, so Cicherski discussed. Got about 25 renewals today, but many people are not renewing. The officers need to see if Ryan needs help to increase membership. If you're interested in helping Ryan out with this, please let me know and, please, plug the NSS and TSA at your Grotto meetings! It also was approved at the TSA Winter meeting at the TSA offices that new members would receive a TSA Texas Bat sticker, as an added goodie. New members currently receive the latest newsletter, as well. If you haven't received yours, let me know! Conservation Committee - Chair not here, no comments. Open. Anyone interested. Safety and Techniques - Chair not here, no comments. David Ochel conducted a Vertical Fine Tuning course during the meeting and before supper. It was a great success, from what I heard. Thanks, David! Publications - Chair not here, no comments. Still mailing out ~100 issues per run. Not burned out, yet, but, damn, I need material! TSA Store - (Graves). Lee Jay said that business has been moderate at convention. We are getting new Texas bat stickers. If anyone wants patches, they should discuss with him. He would like a new TSA banner. Joe Ranzau said they cost from $300 to $400. Lee Jay asked Cicherski if he thought we could afford it, and Cicherski said yes. A motion was made to purchase a TSA store sign for up to $350, seconded, and it passed with no objections.
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 -0000 Issue 1298
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 - Issue 1298 Topics (messages 17659 through 17666): brochure 17659 by: Gill Edigar Re: OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara 17660 by: Preston Forsythe Dig it 17661 by: Andy Gluesenkamp Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17662 by: Preston Forsythe 17664 by: caverarch 17665 by: Jim Kennedy WNS Experiments 17663 by: Mark Minton Re: TSA Spring Meeting Minutes 17666 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I
[Texascavers] Interesting Article
Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don't be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you're sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We're all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
To be fair, in some cases these cavers are honoring a landowner's request to keep quiet or keep to the same individuals. And we have not forgotten folks' interest in the 5 Mouth Dig--we still do not have a date that works for the landowner. PBSS will for sure announce the next one. Jacqui - Original Message - From: mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S ; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project.
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I would not take a new caver to Airman's (unless they weighed 170 lbs or less) if you want them to go again. Too tight. Same for Dead Dog Cave in Austin. Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY - Original Message - From: S S To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger -Original Message- From: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 12:26 am Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We’re all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise =
[Texascavers] RE: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Digs are always a great idea, provided they are done right and with landowner permission. Jim Kennedy, TSS Office Manager and Director From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:18 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don't be shy about that, as well! I
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 -0000 Issue 1299
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 - Issue 1299 Topics (messages 17667 through 17670): Interesting Article 17667 by: Mark Minton Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17668 by: Fritz Holt TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? 17669 by: Mixon Bill 17670 by: Allan Cobb Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention
[Texascavers] North Florida Trip Report/Haiku
Cora and I had a friend die this year in Tank Cave. We had to go to Rock Bluff where she spent lots of time exploring to make peace. We miss Agnes and love her cave, we'll be spending lots of time in there. I wrote a trip report haiku for a cave forumhere it is with the video we took this trip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2hrj_hKz9sfeature=channel_video_title Another cave trip Such fun diving in Rock Bluff Taking video It's humbling diving training with Dan Patterson His trim is unreal The bar is now set Higher than before, we stretch to expand our skills Madison Blue rocks Godzilla room is still there Beckoning us in Amigos is great Wayne is a stellar person Cannot wait to move
[Texascavers] Re: recent discussion on caving
In a perfect Utopian world or vacuum, it might be easier to plan and coordinate a caving trip and invite other cavers. But there are realities that prevent this in the real caving world - especially in Texas. Sometimes there are spur of the moment trips, that fall into place because the leader's schedule and the schedule of other cavers suddenly aligns unexpectedly. Sometimes there are complications with the land-owner that make it impossible to bring unexpected people along. In some cases it is difficult to spend a 2 or 3 day weekend crammed in a vehicle with some person you don't really bond well with. It maybe something minor like they want to sing Lady GaGa music the whole trip, or maybe they just have really really bad breath. Or it could be something worse, like you can tolerate them at a grotto meeting for a few minutes, but that is the peak of your resistance. Or they could just be complete cluster-f*cks, and you have to go out of your way to make sure they don't know about the trip. And there are enough other reasons, that someone could probably write a nice article. Like taking cavers, that don't financially contribute to the cost of the trip, or the trip is a fragile cave with speleothems or endangered fauna. Texas cavers that want to go caving need to make an effort on their own to get on trips, or create their own trips. I have been telling cavers for nearly 20 years that there are 3 very nice caves in Langtry, that someone just needs to make an effort to get to know the rancher, and try to get him to drop his $ 100 per caver ( per day ! ) requirement. And on the subject of brochures, This is the 21st century. Get with the program. The thing to do is make a nice YouTube video explaining how caving in Texas works and how it is different from other regions.Also, make a tablet-friendly slide-show on-line, explaining the same information. This ain't Indiana, or Arizona or Britain. Caving in Texas is different here.Being a caver in east Texas really sucks, unless you prefer to hop on a plane to go to your favorite karst area. Also, I would like to go to Carlsbad on May 13th if anybody is heading that way from east Texas. David Locklear armchair caver with a hernia 281-995-8487 P.S. I will not be doing any caving until I get my hernia fixed. But I am willing to sit top-side and camp. And the East Texas Caver's Cookout is still on as of 4-26-11. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
[Texascavers] Re: TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
If you have Google Toolbar http://www.google.com/toolbar/ installed, you can easily get Google to automatically translate Danish to English for you. It's a machine translation, of course, but in this case it's mostly pretty readable. Mark Minton At 01:32 PM 4/26/2011, Allan Cobb wrote: In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Setting Pond party date
I am considering June 11th as the date of the Pond Party. Crash said there will not be a Colorado Bend trip that weekend and he took it off the calendar on utgrotto.org Anyone who knows of a major caver conflict with that date, please contact me immediately. Pete Strickland (c) 512-897-9235 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave of the Winds' Wind Walker Challenge Course :
In an effort to attract a bit more visitation, many commercial caves are adding new thrill attractions such as extreme wild caving tours, dinner theatres, sluicing for gems, rappelling, climbing walls, etc... Taking advantage of their cliff-side perch, Colorado's Cave of the Winds has added their Wind Walker Challenge Course, where a visitor can navigate a series of ropes and cables suspended over a cliff edge to test their balancing skills while fighting vertigo. Price: $15. _http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg_ (http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg) _http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course_ (http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course)
[Texascavers] Helmet
I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
I put my sten on both an Ecrin Rock (I use for large and vertical caves) and a Petzl Elios (I use for tight and crawly caves). In both cases, I've used a metal or plastic strap mounted on the helmet to slip the light into with an elastic band to keep it there. This gets me that extra half inch of clearance by not using one of those sten light mounts. I also run my cables right back into the helmet, through the helmet to the battery at the back to protect the wires as much as possible. A couple of rubber grommets work nicely in the cable holes . Andy Z On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Helmet
This is really just a discussion of which helmet people prefer. The Sten Light has a standard flat blade, so it will mount on any helmet that has a lamp bracket or other means for mounting a caving lamp. Mark Minton At 06:35 PM 4/26/2011, Andy Zenker wrote: I put my sten on both an Ecrin Rock (I use for large and vertical caves) and a Petzl Elios (I use for tight and crawly caves). In both cases, I've used a metal or plastic strap mounted on the helmet to slip the light into with an elastic band to keep it there. This gets me that extra half inch of clearance by not using one of those sten light mounts. I also run my cables right back into the helmet, through the helmet to the battery at the back to protect the wires as much as possible. A couple of rubber grommets work nicely in the cable holes . Andy Z On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey
Mexican Google News, please. Spanish Google News would include Spain, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Peru, y los Estados Unidos. Por ejemplo, leyendo de Charlie Sheen o de Lindsay Lohanes muy facil! snargle T Apr 25, 2011 02:44:26 PM, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Ted's mention of Spanish Google News led to me find that thecommercial cave nearMonterrey, just had some kind of opening ceremony to its new tourist centerlast week.It sounds nice, with a little museum, and some sort of slide-show area.The video below only shows the front and a brief tour of the inside:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CagzngG1P0QDavid Locklear-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] brochure
In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara
That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I write it. I have to get back to our unexpectedly interrupted construction project in Terlingua, first. DirtDoc
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 -0000 Issue 1297
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 - Issue 1297 Topics (messages 17650 through 17658): Re: New travel warning by State Department 17650 by: Diana Tomchick 17651 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey 17652 by: David 17656 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Re: Fire in the Guads (Last Chance Canyon) 17653 by: Karen Perry 17654 by: Gary McDaniel Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17655 by: S S 17657 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com 17658 by: J. LaRue Thomas Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM, David wrote: For any cavers still pondering whether to travel to Mexico to go caving: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5440.html I am not sure what this says differently from the warning issued in September. However, it clearly states to avoid the state of Tamaulipas, which some cavers would drive thru if they were heading to the Sierra Madre area around Ciuidad Victoria or points further south. It prohibits Federal employees from certain areas. Included are areas are in the state of Jalisco.I states they can't go to Boystown in Laredo. ( Rumors are that place was abandoned by tourist years ago, and I haven't heard of a caver going there in over 15 years. ) Note federal employees are prohibited from travelling several popular routes used by cavers in the Monterrey area.It also says very clearly that the area around the town of San Fernando is dangerous. ( This is the area that has been in the news lately for the mass graves ) It subtly indicates some of the consulate offices have been downsized to the point they are no longer functional. It says to not travel Highway 57 in San Luis Potosi. It subtly warns not to travel to Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, and the beautiful tourist resort of Ixtapa.But more clearly warns to avoid Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Puerto Peñasco. Personally, I think the statement is vague.It does not mention beheadings, or some of the torture methods, and the public displaying of corpses with narco-messages, or that the crime is so bad that the criminals are taking real estate property from people.It doesn't mention all the escaped convicts. It does not mention the bad guys are heavily armed with automatic weapons.Nowhere in the article does it describe what the bad guys look like, so how are you supposed to know how to keep a watchful eye ?Nor does the article in any way refer the tourist to the best up to date news sites on the web related to the narco-crime. It seems designed more to please the Mexican Government, and not hurt their feelings. David - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- If you have enough Spanish, reading Google News for Mexico will give similar info. Anyway, diplomacy is what the State Department does. http://news.google.com/nwshp?edchanged=1ned=es_mx Apropos of nothing, before WWII, British diplomats got tropical duty pay for being stationed in pre-airconditioned Washington, DC.Apr 25, 2011 12:56:40 PM, diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them.Diana* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Diana R. TomchickAssociate ProfessorUniversity of Texas
[Texascavers] Dig it
Anyone who wants to dig on Kiwi's Sink is welcome to contact me. Kiwi's is currently the longest cave in Rolling Oaks (i.e. The Caverhood) and has the potential to tie into the massive lost caverns below the Blanco River as well as Jacob's Well. Well, maybe that is an extremely low potential but it is still a promising cave. We think the BIG passage is just behind a few more rocks... Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:47:11 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you’re correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted “by one or two people that could be included in a larger project”. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read “secret”?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there’s a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don’t recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a “Grotto Only” trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read “DFW”) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From:S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re
[Texascavers] WNS Experiments
Here are a couple of articles about white-nose syndrome in Pennsylvania and recent experiments to find chemicals to help bats survive. Unfortunately they were improperly implemented and all the bats involved died. :-( The video shows how ultraviolet light can be used to visualize WNS infection, which I hadn't heard of before. http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/health-science-multimedia/item/8641-bats Follow up: http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/17982-white-nose-syndrome Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Meeting Minutes
All, Since you probably know by now that I was involved in an epic battle in Del Rio between my kidney stones and morphine, which I'm happy to say has reached a truce, and couldn't attend the Business Meeting, I thought I would chime in. Please delete, if you could care less! MINUTES OF SPRING TSA BUSINESS MEETING 2 April, 2011 (Convened at TSA Spring Convention at Fort Clark Springs, Brackettville). Submitted by Denise Prendergast Officers Present: Ellie Thoene, Vice-Chairman; Michael Cicherski, Treasurer; Denise Prendergast, Secretary Officers Absent: Mark Alman, Chairman TSA Members and Cavers in Attendance: Katie Ahrens, Ron Ralph, Diane Ralph, Lee Jay Graves, Jacqui Thomas, Bill Russell, Logan McNatt, Orion Knox, Carl Kunath, Linda Palit, John Moses, Marvin Miller, Bill Bentley, Christi Burrell, Joe Ranzau, Dave McClung, Eric Bixby, Melissa Hamilton Welcome and Introductions/Chairman's Report: (Thoene and Cicherski). Thoene convened meeting at 5:04 pm. Because Mark Alman had to leave convention unexpectedly (kidney stones), she was next in line and turning meeting over to Cicherski to run. Cicherski said he is not good at Robert's Rules of Order, so please cut him some slack or let him know how to proceed. Vice-Chairman's Report: (Thoene). Thoene thanked everybody for coming to the TSA spring convention. Secretary's Report: (Prendergast). Minutes from the Winter Meeting were not available so approving them was deferred to the next meeting. Treasurer's Report: (Cicherski). Cicherski handed out a Treasurer's Report (one table with years 2007 through 2010 and another with monthly details for 2010). We should do OK financially at convention, about 101 people signed up, do not yet have cooks' expenses. o The summary for years 2007 through 2010 showed that the TSA budgets and actually spends anywhere from approximately $6500 to $8900 each year. The Texas Caver is the major expense, with annual costs ranging from approximately $2600 to $5600. o Through 12/31/2011, the TSA had assets of $8,775.06. o There are 143 current paid members with 57 receiving on-line only versions of The Texas Caver. o Income totaled $10,040.36 for 2010, with expenses totaling $8,589.07 (positive variance of $1.451.29). o The TSA store brought in $1,163.62 in 2010. Standing Committee Reports TSA Projects - (Cicherski). Jim Kennedy absent, so Marvin Miller discussed Government Canyon. Just had their 100th trip celebration, and it was a great success. TSA donated $150 to it, and so did Bexar Grotto. Lots of work to do out there. Cicherski said that Longhorn Caverns is on hold awaiting TPWD approval. True Ron Ralph said that Devil's River State Natural Area is now under state control, and we are working with TPWD on an MOA to begin a karst survey. Hope to start up in the fall. Linda Palit said we may need a new person to head up that project, nothing official yet. Lee Jay said that Colorado Bend State Park has had a lot of people participating, last trip of the year in May or June. * Inner Space Caverns Project (Starting in September) - Planning on cranking up in September, with help from Gerry Geletzke and James Jasek (once he recovers from his heart surgery). TSA Website - (Cicherski). Butch Fralia absent, and Cicherski not sure of status. Membership Committee - (Cicherski). Ryan Monjaras absent, so Cicherski discussed. Got about 25 renewals today, but many people are not renewing. The officers need to see if Ryan needs help to increase membership. If you're interested in helping Ryan out with this, please let me know and, please, plug the NSS and TSA at your Grotto meetings! It also was approved at the TSA Winter meeting at the TSA offices that new members would receive a TSA Texas Bat sticker, as an added goodie. New members currently receive the latest newsletter, as well. If you haven't received yours, let me know! Conservation Committee - Chair not here, no comments. Open. Anyone interested. Safety and Techniques - Chair not here, no comments. David Ochel conducted a Vertical Fine Tuning course during the meeting and before supper. It was a great success, from what I heard. Thanks, David! Publications - Chair not here, no comments. Still mailing out ~100 issues per run. Not burned out, yet, but, damn, I need material! TSA Store - (Graves). Lee Jay said that business has been moderate at convention. We are getting new Texas bat stickers. If anyone wants patches, they should discuss with him. He would like a new TSA banner. Joe Ranzau said they cost from $300 to $400. Lee Jay asked Cicherski if he thought we could afford it, and Cicherski said yes. A motion was made to purchase a TSA store sign for up to $350, seconded, and it passed with no objections.
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 -0000 Issue 1298
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 - Issue 1298 Topics (messages 17659 through 17666): brochure 17659 by: Gill Edigar Re: OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara 17660 by: Preston Forsythe Dig it 17661 by: Andy Gluesenkamp Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17662 by: Preston Forsythe 17664 by: caverarch 17665 by: Jim Kennedy WNS Experiments 17663 by: Mark Minton Re: TSA Spring Meeting Minutes 17666 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I
[Texascavers] Interesting Article
Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don't be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you're sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We're all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
To be fair, in some cases these cavers are honoring a landowner's request to keep quiet or keep to the same individuals. And we have not forgotten folks' interest in the 5 Mouth Dig--we still do not have a date that works for the landowner. PBSS will for sure announce the next one. Jacqui - Original Message - From: mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S ; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project.
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I would not take a new caver to Airman's (unless they weighed 170 lbs or less) if you want them to go again. Too tight. Same for Dead Dog Cave in Austin. Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY - Original Message - From: S S To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger -Original Message- From: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 12:26 am Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We’re all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise =
[Texascavers] RE: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Digs are always a great idea, provided they are done right and with landowner permission. Jim Kennedy, TSS Office Manager and Director From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:18 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 -0000 Issue 1299
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 - Issue 1299 Topics (messages 17667 through 17670): Interesting Article 17667 by: Mark Minton Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17668 by: Fritz Holt TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? 17669 by: Mixon Bill 17670 by: Allan Cobb Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception
[Texascavers] North Florida Trip Report/Haiku
Cora and I had a friend die this year in Tank Cave. We had to go to Rock Bluff where she spent lots of time exploring to make peace. We miss Agnes and love her cave, we'll be spending lots of time in there. I wrote a trip report haiku for a cave forumhere it is with the video we took this trip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2hrj_hKz9sfeature=channel_video_title Another cave trip Such fun diving in Rock Bluff Taking video It's humbling diving training with Dan Patterson His trim is unreal The bar is now set Higher than before, we stretch to expand our skills Madison Blue rocks Godzilla room is still there Beckoning us in Amigos is great Wayne is a stellar person Cannot wait to move
[Texascavers] Re: recent discussion on caving
In a perfect Utopian world or vacuum, it might be easier to plan and coordinate a caving trip and invite other cavers. But there are realities that prevent this in the real caving world - especially in Texas. Sometimes there are spur of the moment trips, that fall into place because the leader's schedule and the schedule of other cavers suddenly aligns unexpectedly. Sometimes there are complications with the land-owner that make it impossible to bring unexpected people along. In some cases it is difficult to spend a 2 or 3 day weekend crammed in a vehicle with some person you don't really bond well with. It maybe something minor like they want to sing Lady GaGa music the whole trip, or maybe they just have really really bad breath. Or it could be something worse, like you can tolerate them at a grotto meeting for a few minutes, but that is the peak of your resistance. Or they could just be complete cluster-f*cks, and you have to go out of your way to make sure they don't know about the trip. And there are enough other reasons, that someone could probably write a nice article. Like taking cavers, that don't financially contribute to the cost of the trip, or the trip is a fragile cave with speleothems or endangered fauna. Texas cavers that want to go caving need to make an effort on their own to get on trips, or create their own trips. I have been telling cavers for nearly 20 years that there are 3 very nice caves in Langtry, that someone just needs to make an effort to get to know the rancher, and try to get him to drop his $ 100 per caver ( per day ! ) requirement. And on the subject of brochures, This is the 21st century. Get with the program. The thing to do is make a nice YouTube video explaining how caving in Texas works and how it is different from other regions.Also, make a tablet-friendly slide-show on-line, explaining the same information. This ain't Indiana, or Arizona or Britain. Caving in Texas is different here.Being a caver in east Texas really sucks, unless you prefer to hop on a plane to go to your favorite karst area. Also, I would like to go to Carlsbad on May 13th if anybody is heading that way from east Texas. David Locklear armchair caver with a hernia 281-995-8487 P.S. I will not be doing any caving until I get my hernia fixed. But I am willing to sit top-side and camp. And the East Texas Caver's Cookout is still on as of 4-26-11. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
[Texascavers] Re: TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
If you have Google Toolbar http://www.google.com/toolbar/ installed, you can easily get Google to automatically translate Danish to English for you. It's a machine translation, of course, but in this case it's mostly pretty readable. Mark Minton At 01:32 PM 4/26/2011, Allan Cobb wrote: In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Setting Pond party date
I am considering June 11th as the date of the Pond Party. Crash said there will not be a Colorado Bend trip that weekend and he took it off the calendar on utgrotto.org Anyone who knows of a major caver conflict with that date, please contact me immediately. Pete Strickland (c) 512-897-9235 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave of the Winds' Wind Walker Challenge Course :
In an effort to attract a bit more visitation, many commercial caves are adding new thrill attractions such as extreme wild caving tours, dinner theatres, sluicing for gems, rappelling, climbing walls, etc... Taking advantage of their cliff-side perch, Colorado's Cave of the Winds has added their Wind Walker Challenge Course, where a visitor can navigate a series of ropes and cables suspended over a cliff edge to test their balancing skills while fighting vertigo. Price: $15. _http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg_ (http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg) _http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course_ (http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course)
[Texascavers] Helmet
I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
I put my sten on both an Ecrin Rock (I use for large and vertical caves) and a Petzl Elios (I use for tight and crawly caves). In both cases, I've used a metal or plastic strap mounted on the helmet to slip the light into with an elastic band to keep it there. This gets me that extra half inch of clearance by not using one of those sten light mounts. I also run my cables right back into the helmet, through the helmet to the battery at the back to protect the wires as much as possible. A couple of rubber grommets work nicely in the cable holes . Andy Z On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Helmet
This is really just a discussion of which helmet people prefer. The Sten Light has a standard flat blade, so it will mount on any helmet that has a lamp bracket or other means for mounting a caving lamp. Mark Minton At 06:35 PM 4/26/2011, Andy Zenker wrote: I put my sten on both an Ecrin Rock (I use for large and vertical caves) and a Petzl Elios (I use for tight and crawly caves). In both cases, I've used a metal or plastic strap mounted on the helmet to slip the light into with an elastic band to keep it there. This gets me that extra half inch of clearance by not using one of those sten light mounts. I also run my cables right back into the helmet, through the helmet to the battery at the back to protect the wires as much as possible. A couple of rubber grommets work nicely in the cable holes . Andy Z On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] brochure
In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara
That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I write it. I have to get back to our unexpectedly interrupted construction project in Terlingua, first. DirtDoc
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 -0000 Issue 1297
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 12:53:55 - Issue 1297 Topics (messages 17650 through 17658): Re: New travel warning by State Department 17650 by: Diana Tomchick 17651 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Grutas de Garcia - Monterrey 17652 by: David 17656 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net Re: Fire in the Guads (Last Chance Canyon) 17653 by: Karen Perry 17654 by: Gary McDaniel Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17655 by: S S 17657 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com 17658 by: J. LaRue Thomas Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:24 AM, David wrote: For any cavers still pondering whether to travel to Mexico to go caving: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5440.html I am not sure what this says differently from the warning issued in September. However, it clearly states to avoid the state of Tamaulipas, which some cavers would drive thru if they were heading to the Sierra Madre area around Ciuidad Victoria or points further south. It prohibits Federal employees from certain areas. Included are areas are in the state of Jalisco.I states they can't go to Boystown in Laredo. ( Rumors are that place was abandoned by tourist years ago, and I haven't heard of a caver going there in over 15 years. ) Note federal employees are prohibited from travelling several popular routes used by cavers in the Monterrey area.It also says very clearly that the area around the town of San Fernando is dangerous. ( This is the area that has been in the news lately for the mass graves ) It subtly indicates some of the consulate offices have been downsized to the point they are no longer functional. It says to not travel Highway 57 in San Luis Potosi. It subtly warns not to travel to Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Zihuatanejo, and the beautiful tourist resort of Ixtapa.But more clearly warns to avoid Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Puerto Peñasco. Personally, I think the statement is vague.It does not mention beheadings, or some of the torture methods, and the public displaying of corpses with narco-messages, or that the crime is so bad that the criminals are taking real estate property from people.It doesn't mention all the escaped convicts. It does not mention the bad guys are heavily armed with automatic weapons.Nowhere in the article does it describe what the bad guys look like, so how are you supposed to know how to keep a watchful eye ?Nor does the article in any way refer the tourist to the best up to date news sites on the web related to the narco-crime. It seems designed more to please the Mexican Government, and not hurt their feelings. David - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- If you have enough Spanish, reading Google News for Mexico will give similar info. Anyway, diplomacy is what the State Department does. http://news.google.com/nwshp?edchanged=1ned=es_mx Apropos of nothing, before WWII, British diplomats got tropical duty pay for being stationed in pre-airconditioned Washington, DC.Apr 25, 2011 12:56:40 PM, diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: There are only two other Western Hemisphere nations that have a State Department travel warning issued for them, and they are Colombia and Haiti. Surely that fact is not lost on the Mexican government, and I hardly think that the wording of this travel warning (which is far more detailed than the warnings for the other two countries) was meant to pacify them.Diana* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Diana R. TomchickAssociate ProfessorUniversity of Texas
[Texascavers] Dig it
Anyone who wants to dig on Kiwi's Sink is welcome to contact me. Kiwi's is currently the longest cave in Rolling Oaks (i.e. The Caverhood) and has the potential to tie into the massive lost caverns below the Blanco River as well as Jacob's Well. Well, maybe that is an extremely low potential but it is still a promising cave. We think the BIG passage is just behind a few more rocks... Andy Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:47:11 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you’re correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted “by one or two people that could be included in a larger project”. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read “secret”?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there’s a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don’t recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a “Grotto Only” trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read “DFW”) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From:S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re
[Texascavers] WNS Experiments
Here are a couple of articles about white-nose syndrome in Pennsylvania and recent experiments to find chemicals to help bats survive. Unfortunately they were improperly implemented and all the bats involved died. :-( The video shows how ultraviolet light can be used to visualize WNS infection, which I hadn't heard of before. http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/health-science-multimedia/item/8641-bats Follow up: http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/17982-white-nose-syndrome Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Meeting Minutes
All, Since you probably know by now that I was involved in an epic battle in Del Rio between my kidney stones and morphine, which I'm happy to say has reached a truce, and couldn't attend the Business Meeting, I thought I would chime in. Please delete, if you could care less! MINUTES OF SPRING TSA BUSINESS MEETING 2 April, 2011 (Convened at TSA Spring Convention at Fort Clark Springs, Brackettville). Submitted by Denise Prendergast Officers Present: Ellie Thoene, Vice-Chairman; Michael Cicherski, Treasurer; Denise Prendergast, Secretary Officers Absent: Mark Alman, Chairman TSA Members and Cavers in Attendance: Katie Ahrens, Ron Ralph, Diane Ralph, Lee Jay Graves, Jacqui Thomas, Bill Russell, Logan McNatt, Orion Knox, Carl Kunath, Linda Palit, John Moses, Marvin Miller, Bill Bentley, Christi Burrell, Joe Ranzau, Dave McClung, Eric Bixby, Melissa Hamilton Welcome and Introductions/Chairman's Report: (Thoene and Cicherski). Thoene convened meeting at 5:04 pm. Because Mark Alman had to leave convention unexpectedly (kidney stones), she was next in line and turning meeting over to Cicherski to run. Cicherski said he is not good at Robert's Rules of Order, so please cut him some slack or let him know how to proceed. Vice-Chairman's Report: (Thoene). Thoene thanked everybody for coming to the TSA spring convention. Secretary's Report: (Prendergast). Minutes from the Winter Meeting were not available so approving them was deferred to the next meeting. Treasurer's Report: (Cicherski). Cicherski handed out a Treasurer's Report (one table with years 2007 through 2010 and another with monthly details for 2010). We should do OK financially at convention, about 101 people signed up, do not yet have cooks' expenses. o The summary for years 2007 through 2010 showed that the TSA budgets and actually spends anywhere from approximately $6500 to $8900 each year. The Texas Caver is the major expense, with annual costs ranging from approximately $2600 to $5600. o Through 12/31/2011, the TSA had assets of $8,775.06. o There are 143 current paid members with 57 receiving on-line only versions of The Texas Caver. o Income totaled $10,040.36 for 2010, with expenses totaling $8,589.07 (positive variance of $1.451.29). o The TSA store brought in $1,163.62 in 2010. Standing Committee Reports TSA Projects - (Cicherski). Jim Kennedy absent, so Marvin Miller discussed Government Canyon. Just had their 100th trip celebration, and it was a great success. TSA donated $150 to it, and so did Bexar Grotto. Lots of work to do out there. Cicherski said that Longhorn Caverns is on hold awaiting TPWD approval. True Ron Ralph said that Devil's River State Natural Area is now under state control, and we are working with TPWD on an MOA to begin a karst survey. Hope to start up in the fall. Linda Palit said we may need a new person to head up that project, nothing official yet. Lee Jay said that Colorado Bend State Park has had a lot of people participating, last trip of the year in May or June. * Inner Space Caverns Project (Starting in September) - Planning on cranking up in September, with help from Gerry Geletzke and James Jasek (once he recovers from his heart surgery). TSA Website - (Cicherski). Butch Fralia absent, and Cicherski not sure of status. Membership Committee - (Cicherski). Ryan Monjaras absent, so Cicherski discussed. Got about 25 renewals today, but many people are not renewing. The officers need to see if Ryan needs help to increase membership. If you're interested in helping Ryan out with this, please let me know and, please, plug the NSS and TSA at your Grotto meetings! It also was approved at the TSA Winter meeting at the TSA offices that new members would receive a TSA Texas Bat sticker, as an added goodie. New members currently receive the latest newsletter, as well. If you haven't received yours, let me know! Conservation Committee - Chair not here, no comments. Open. Anyone interested. Safety and Techniques - Chair not here, no comments. David Ochel conducted a Vertical Fine Tuning course during the meeting and before supper. It was a great success, from what I heard. Thanks, David! Publications - Chair not here, no comments. Still mailing out ~100 issues per run. Not burned out, yet, but, damn, I need material! TSA Store - (Graves). Lee Jay said that business has been moderate at convention. We are getting new Texas bat stickers. If anyone wants patches, they should discuss with him. He would like a new TSA banner. Joe Ranzau said they cost from $300 to $400. Lee Jay asked Cicherski if he thought we could afford it, and Cicherski said yes. A motion was made to purchase a TSA store sign for up to $350, seconded, and it passed with no objections.
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 -0000 Issue 1298
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 15:55:08 - Issue 1298 Topics (messages 17659 through 17666): brochure 17659 by: Gill Edigar Re: OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara 17660 by: Preston Forsythe Dig it 17661 by: Andy Gluesenkamp Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17662 by: Preston Forsythe 17664 by: caverarch 17665 by: Jim Kennedy WNS Experiments 17663 by: Mark Minton Re: TSA Spring Meeting Minutes 17666 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- In the mid-'90s I produced a tri-fold brochure for the UT Grotto entitled: *So you want to go caving? *It was designed to go into the 'Gimmee' slots provided for clubs and outfitters and such at places like REI, Whole Earth PC, Academy, climbing gyms, or just handing out to new cavers at City of Austin Cave Day, etc. They were black-on-yellow as I recall. It was primarily designed to attract new or potential cavers to contact the UTG or attend their meetings. It is my opinion that if every town with a Grotto is not pursuing such a minimal course of recruitment they are doing a disservice to cavers, wannabe cavers, the Grotto, the TSA, the NSS, and themselves--at least. As a local publication it lists several local caves and who to contact to get some instruction and how to join the local cavers. Other Texas Grottos should have similar brochures for similar distribution and larger posters for posting on each and every local college campus at the beginning of each semester. I intended to get started on republishing it for UTG about a month ago but so far haven't located the original file. The final layout was done in PageMaker 4 on a 3-1/2 floppy so hope I can still open it. At any rate, it's not so extensive that it couldn't all be OCRed or reset during the updating process. I will supply a file to anybody that wants to adapt one to their local conditions as soon as I can find and extract it. There are many 1st- or 2nd-time cavers who show up at Colorado Bend or other projects who have no idea what caving life looks like outside of their own Grotto or group of caving friends. A similar TSA information brochure that shows the caving hierarchy (with general description and contact info) from Independent Caver to caving club or Texas Grotto, to TSA (and other Texas organizations), to NSS, to various international caving groups, clubs, expeditions, etc would, I think, educate a lot of new cavers (and some older ones) to many additional opportunities available to cavers and encourage them to join some of those other organizations. As an added incentive, new cavers should be sent a couple of complimentary copies (digital would be OK) of The TEXAS CAVER to further hustle them along. What else? --Ediger ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- That was a pretty wild trip and I for one would like to hear more details when you write it up. Thanks for the report, Preston Forsythe in western KY --- - Original Message - From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Cave NM ; Cave Texas Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:51 AM Subject: [Texascavers] OT - back from the Sierra Tarahumara Monday about 9 AM Back from four days in the Sierra Tarahumara with the Mexican Consulate in Presidio and the Tourist officials from the State of Chihuahua. Safe trip, Great Trip, Great stories. We, along with San Antonio cavers Alan Montemayor and Cheryl Hamilton, were fortunate to score such a wonderful VIP Trip with a small group of Americans and Mexicans. Rode the train from Chihuahua City to a spot south of Divisidero. The state, using funds from both state and national tourism bureaus just opened (last October) huge 50-passanger tram across part of the Barranca del Cobre. You can see the Rio Urique in the bottom of the canyon. Later got down to the Barranca del Sinforosa on the Rio Verde south of Guachochi. The Barranca del Sinforosa is larger and more spectacular (True!!) than the canyon along the Urique that you see from Divisidero - and still essentially undeveloped. Spent Good Friday celebrating Easter with the Raramuri (swift runners) people - Tarahumara is the language, Raramuri are the people. About the strangest Christian set of ceremonies I have ever witnessed. We were welcomed and not treated as intruders. In the remote town of Norogachi SE of Creel. More later. Back to Terlingua last night - 2:30 AM this morning. Just getting functional for the day. Send me an email if you would like a more complete description of the trip and I'll send it along after I
[Texascavers] Interesting Article
Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don't be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you're sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We're all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
To be fair, in some cases these cavers are honoring a landowner's request to keep quiet or keep to the same individuals. And we have not forgotten folks' interest in the 5 Mouth Dig--we still do not have a date that works for the landowner. PBSS will for sure announce the next one. Jacqui - Original Message - From: mark.al...@l-3com.com To: S S ; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project.
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I would not take a new caver to Airman's (unless they weighed 170 lbs or less) if you want them to go again. Too tight. Same for Dead Dog Cave in Austin. Preston Forsythe, Browder, KY - Original Message - From: S S To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects...
Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger -Original Message- From: S S back2scool...@hotmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 12:26 am Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the “place to go” for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we’re interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y’all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something up, don’t be shy about that, as well! I will be out of commission for the next couple of days getting a couple of kidney stones annihilated, but while you’re sending me money, flowers, candy, and best wishes, think about ways we can improve the TSA. We’re all in this cave together! Thanks! Mark, Ellie, Michael, and Denise =
[Texascavers] RE: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
Digs are always a great idea, provided they are done right and with landowner permission. Jim Kennedy, TSS Office Manager and Director From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:18 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... I think digs are a good idea if there good candidates with reliable property access in the Austin and San Antonio areas. What do our TSS data masters think? Roger
RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA...
For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception of the Texas Caver and TSA Convention we are relatively dormant during these summer months. Perhaps we could have 2 -4 training classes at TCR in October. Workshops limited to the first 25 cavers on such topics as cave photography, vertical beginner, vertical advance, cartography beginner, cartography advanced. We currently have around 150 members and it has fluctuated around there since I have been an officer. The officers and I are interested in building more excitement and enthusiasm for the TSA, which will then bring in more members. I just attended a superb climbing class conducted by Lloyd Turnbull and the Cowtown Grotto. These are the type of things we're interested in promoting and conducting. So now is your chance! Rather than listen to me browbeat y'all about needing material for The TEXAS CAVER (which, I still do!) get your thinking caps on and send us some feedback! If you would like to volunteer to head something
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 -0000 Issue 1299
texascavers Digest 26 Apr 2011 17:30:24 - Issue 1299 Topics (messages 17667 through 17670): Interesting Article 17667 by: Mark Minton Re: Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... 17668 by: Fritz Holt TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? 17669 by: Mixon Bill 17670 by: Allan Cobb Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Article about life-long female caver Liz Price: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42752602/ns/technology_and_science-science/. Mark Minton Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- For more help to get the work done on those one or two person projects, the trip leader should have an idea of who might come to get down and dirty and not just for the party afterwards. They could invite a select few, possibly a dozen, and six or eight might show up. The leader could then see who the workers are and be sure they were on the next invite list. For somewhat private caves with visitation only by cavers known by the land owner to respect the property (and there are many), the land owner would probably trust the judgment of the caver to invite only cavers of like kind. Were I free of an important obligation I would enjoy digs and clean up projects as I am an anti-litter extremeist. Fritz From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:47 AM To: S S; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... Agreed and you're correct that there are a lot of little projects that are conducted by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. This has been one of my biggest and oldest pet peeves, going all the way back when I was a new member at the DFW Grotto. These less than well-publicized (read secret?) trips to caves that only a chosen few ever hear about or get invited on. Surely, there's a way to keep the amount of folks attending to a reasonable level while still being inclusive to other cavers, new or experienced. I don't recall ever conducting a project weekend that was not publicized and the number of folks who attended was always manageable. If you want only 6 or 8 cavers, say so! Inclusiveness equals interest, participation, enthusiasm and a healthy TSA/Grotto. Cliquishness equals poor/no camaraderie, disinterest, and a loss of members. The UT Grotto has been very good at getting new cavers underground, primarily at Whirlpool, which is an excellent beginner cave. The Longhorn Project, which I am in charge of, was a blast, before and after ICS and helped get a lot of new cavers underground, primarily from and a big thanks to the Aggie Grotto! If you have a Grotto Only trip, surely you can advertise it on CaveTex and allow a few more other cavers from cave poor areas of the state (read DFW) to attend. If you want to limit the size, say so, but, Publicize, Publicize, Publicize! Mark From: S S [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:27 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... We need more caving trip events to local cavesWhirlpool, Airmans, Blowing Sink, Organized Digs?..Hard bargin. I don't think there are enough trips to keep people interested. Digs are always a good project and a great way to move a ton of material in a small time. Surely there must be some projects out there being worked on one bucket at a time by one or two people that could be included in a larger project. VOlonteers love projects... From: mark.al...@l-3com.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:30:06 -0500 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com CC: texascav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Ask Not What You Can Do For The TSA... But, what can the TSA do for you! Michael Cicherski emailed the TSA officers this query and we all would like to solicit your (constructive and positive) ideas, improvements, likes/dislikes, and things you would like to see the TSA do. From Michael: What can we (the TSA) do for the remainder of the year to make a difference? Is there anything that we can pro-actively to show the TSA is the premier caving organization in the State? How can we make the TSA the place to go for all things caving? I will be up front and say that I have no answers to my own question. It is more of a question that we need to ponder as we move into the summer months. With the exception
[Texascavers] North Florida Trip Report/Haiku
Cora and I had a friend die this year in Tank Cave. We had to go to Rock Bluff where she spent lots of time exploring to make peace. We miss Agnes and love her cave, we'll be spending lots of time in there. I wrote a trip report haiku for a cave forumhere it is with the video we took this trip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2hrj_hKz9sfeature=channel_video_title Another cave trip Such fun diving in Rock Bluff Taking video It's humbling diving training with Dan Patterson His trim is unreal The bar is now set Higher than before, we stretch to expand our skills Madison Blue rocks Godzilla room is still there Beckoning us in Amigos is great Wayne is a stellar person Cannot wait to move
[Texascavers] Re: recent discussion on caving
In a perfect Utopian world or vacuum, it might be easier to plan and coordinate a caving trip and invite other cavers. But there are realities that prevent this in the real caving world - especially in Texas. Sometimes there are spur of the moment trips, that fall into place because the leader's schedule and the schedule of other cavers suddenly aligns unexpectedly. Sometimes there are complications with the land-owner that make it impossible to bring unexpected people along. In some cases it is difficult to spend a 2 or 3 day weekend crammed in a vehicle with some person you don't really bond well with. It maybe something minor like they want to sing Lady GaGa music the whole trip, or maybe they just have really really bad breath. Or it could be something worse, like you can tolerate them at a grotto meeting for a few minutes, but that is the peak of your resistance. Or they could just be complete cluster-f*cks, and you have to go out of your way to make sure they don't know about the trip. And there are enough other reasons, that someone could probably write a nice article. Like taking cavers, that don't financially contribute to the cost of the trip, or the trip is a fragile cave with speleothems or endangered fauna. Texas cavers that want to go caving need to make an effort on their own to get on trips, or create their own trips. I have been telling cavers for nearly 20 years that there are 3 very nice caves in Langtry, that someone just needs to make an effort to get to know the rancher, and try to get him to drop his $ 100 per caver ( per day ! ) requirement. And on the subject of brochures, This is the 21st century. Get with the program. The thing to do is make a nice YouTube video explaining how caving in Texas works and how it is different from other regions.Also, make a tablet-friendly slide-show on-line, explaining the same information. This ain't Indiana, or Arizona or Britain. Caving in Texas is different here.Being a caver in east Texas really sucks, unless you prefer to hop on a plane to go to your favorite karst area. Also, I would like to go to Carlsbad on May 13th if anybody is heading that way from east Texas. David Locklear armchair caver with a hernia 281-995-8487 P.S. I will not be doing any caving until I get my hernia fixed. But I am willing to sit top-side and camp. And the East Texas Caver's Cookout is still on as of 4-26-11. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, Yes, the things your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how everything works. That's when I wake up. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
[Texascavers] Re: TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??
If you have Google Toolbar http://www.google.com/toolbar/ installed, you can easily get Google to automatically translate Danish to English for you. It's a machine translation, of course, but in this case it's mostly pretty readable. Mark Minton At 01:32 PM 4/26/2011, Allan Cobb wrote: In 2001, I was on a project to open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the secrets that were hidden behind it that was chronicled by Danish TV and newspaper through the DK Explorer. Unfortunately, we were not able to get permission from the village to enter the cave. It added lots of drama as we negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and story in itself. You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001. I hope your Danish is good but you can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of temples and caves. Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having knowledge of Danish would help. Allan - Original Message - From: Mixon Bill To: Cavers Texas Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ?? The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV. --Mixon Begin forwarded message: From: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES Reply-To: ÐÑÑеÑлав ÐабÑÑев vachesla...@mail.ru Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? Thank you in advance. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Setting Pond party date
I am considering June 11th as the date of the Pond Party. Crash said there will not be a Colorado Bend trip that weekend and he took it off the calendar on utgrotto.org Anyone who knows of a major caver conflict with that date, please contact me immediately. Pete Strickland (c) 512-897-9235 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave of the Winds' Wind Walker Challenge Course :
In an effort to attract a bit more visitation, many commercial caves are adding new thrill attractions such as extreme wild caving tours, dinner theatres, sluicing for gems, rappelling, climbing walls, etc... Taking advantage of their cliff-side perch, Colorado's Cave of the Winds has added their Wind Walker Challenge Course, where a visitor can navigate a series of ropes and cables suspended over a cliff edge to test their balancing skills while fighting vertigo. Price: $15. _http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg_ (http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/04/20/8330512/windwalker1.jpg) _http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course_ (http://caveofthewinds.com/what-to-expect/wind-walker-challenge-course)
[Texascavers] Helmet
I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com From: Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Helmet
I put my sten on both an Ecrin Rock (I use for large and vertical caves) and a Petzl Elios (I use for tight and crawly caves). In both cases, I've used a metal or plastic strap mounted on the helmet to slip the light into with an elastic band to keep it there. This gets me that extra half inch of clearance by not using one of those sten light mounts. I also run my cables right back into the helmet, through the helmet to the battery at the back to protect the wires as much as possible. A couple of rubber grommets work nicely in the cable holes . Andy Z On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Yup, I second the Ecrin Roc. I've seen people trying out the newer styles of helmets and in the end getting back to Ecrin Rocs. They're very good helmets, and comfortable. - Fofo On 26/04/11 14:13, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote: Ecrin Roc. You'll need to trim/sand down the angle on the plastic mounting bracket to fit the curve on the front of the helmet. This is true with many helmets. I like the ERoc because I can feed the wires from the battery through the vent holes and clips and then out to the light. It reduces the exposure of cables to snag on the outside. Very nice. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com *From:* Floyd Hebert heber...@gmail.com *To:* Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Tue, April 26, 2011 3:52:40 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Helmet I was going to ask everyone what caving helmet to get, but I thought that might be to vague. So, I'll ask it this way: What helmet would you mount a Stenlight on? Thanks, Floyd - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
