Re: [Texascavers] Sinkhole Swallows Bus in China

[Michael Gibbons]

Looks like the road had a very recent repair of the asphalt from mid sink
hole rearward.

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 8:57 AM  wrote:

> A full-size bus and several pedestrians were swallowed up when a
> sinkhole suddenly opened in China:
> <
> https://www.sciencealert.com/a-huge-sinkhole-opened-up-in-china-and-swallowed-a-bus-and-pedestrians>,
>
> .
>
> Mark Minton
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Preston has been hacked?!

[Michael Gibbons]

Who cant buy a gift card online? That's the weakest scam ever.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 12:14 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

> No one asks for a gift card. It has to be a hack.
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 8:59 AM Dwight Deal  wrote:
>
>> Or at least it looks like it.  The interesting thing is that the message
>> I got appears to be from his usual email address.
>>
>> Dirtdoc
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> To:
>> Date: November 25, 2019 at 7:23 AM
>> Subject: Hello
>>
>> How are you doing?
>>
>> Please I need a little favor from you. I need to get Amazon gift card for
>> my niece, It's her birthday but I can't do this now because I'm currently
>> traveling. I tried purchasing online but unfortunately no luck with that.
>> Can you get it for me from any store around you? I'll pay back as soon as I
>> am back.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Preston
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Preston has been hacked?!

[Michael Gibbons]

I think I you mean through

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019, 9:02 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
>
>
> There are all kinds of scams that seem to be going on right now involving
> the NSS, various grottos and now people related to gift cards.
>
>
>
> The NSS does have a Giving Tuesday program going on though Facebook and of
> course directly thought our web site.
>
>
>
> Geary Schindel
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf Of 
> *Dwight
> Deal
> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2019 8:59 AM
> *To:* Cave Texas 
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Preston has been hacked?!
>
>
>
> Or at least it looks like it.  The interesting thing is that the message I
> got appears to be from his usual email address.
>
>
>
> Dirtdoc
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> To:
> Date: November 25, 2019 at 7:23 AM
> Subject: Hello
>
> How are you doing?
>
> Please I need a little favor from you. I need to get Amazon gift card for
> my niece, It's her birthday but I can't do this now because I'm currently
> traveling. I tried purchasing online but unfortunately no luck with that.
> Can you get it for me from any store around you? I'll pay back as soon as I
> am back.
>
> Thanks
> Preston
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown
> senders***
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] My Lake

[Michael Gibbons]

You gonna being a good hydrologist with you?

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 9:56 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Sounds like you all could use a hydrologist.
>
>
>
> I think I may be out that way tomorrow if you would like me to stop by and
> take a look.
>
>
>
> Privately message me at the email below and send me your address and any
> directions I may need. I may be able to do a little look at some of the
> geology of the area for you.
>
>
>
> Geary
>
> 210.326.1576 cell
>
> gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf Of 
> *Charles
> Loving
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:36 AM
> *To:* Cavers Texas 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] My Lake
>
>
>
> *The lake is on highway 337 between Leakey and Camp Wood on Pine Mt Road
> in front of my house. We have done all that. We have used dye and like I
> said dumped hundreds of tons of rock, caliche and cement into the lake and
> are still doing that today. Our newghbor is using his front end loaders and
> three dump trucks, moving rocks and dirt. This is the headwater of the
> Nueches River. The springs that feed the lake are still running but no
> longer roaring like they did. There is water but it is no longer five to
> six acres. My own little creek that is a dry weather creek runs during rain
> events. The water comes off the hill and down the gully and pools before it
> crosses the road about 200 yards from the lake and disappears underground.
> There are a half dozen caves above my house in the cliff side. There has to
> have been a shift below the lake due to drought perhaps or something we
> weren't aware of. One of my neighbors built a beautiful cement dam across a
>  creek that trickled. It never filled and no amount of bentonite and such
> helped. He now has a beautiful useless dam.*
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 7:57 AM Jon Cradit 
> wrote:
>
> Charlie,
>
> I don’t know where your lake front property is but if you have access to
> some Del Rio Clay you could have that hauled in and rolled out to seal the
> bottom.  You may also try doing a small dye trace from your water feature
> to your well, if you have one, and determine if there is a hydraulic
> connection.
>
>
>
> Jon C.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf Of 
> *Charles
> Loving
> *Sent:* Monday, November 4, 2019 7:47 PM
> *To:* Gill Ediger ; Crash Kennedy <
> cavercr...@gmail.com>; Cavers Texas 
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] My Lake
>
>
>
>
> *The lake  at my place is leaking like a sive and loosing water. It has
> gone from 6 acres to about 2.  We have dumped 35 dump trucks of rock and
> caliche and four loads of cement into the thing and it accomplished
> nothing. I think there is a cave, crack or sink hole. We have been working
> on this for weeks and nothing seems to work.*
>
>
>
> * It is a series of caves I am sure that opened up recently. We have had
> no rain etc. The ground is tinder dry. No rain since January.*
>
>
>
> *When it does rain two or three inches there is a dry weather creek next
> to my house that runs toward the lake but disappears before it reaches it
> all the water goes underground. *
>
>
>
> *I am wonder if the cavers  could use a magnetometer to find the holes?
> That might at least put us on a track toward repairing the lake. We have to
> do all this on our dime and it is getting prohibitive.*
>
> --
>
> Charlie Loving
>
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown
> senders***
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Charlie Loving
>
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown
> senders***
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Re: [Texascavers] a personal story

[Michael Gibbons]

You need to make TCR and tell us the rest of the story at story telling
night.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 1:46 PM David  wrote:

> Please email me privately if you would like to hear the details
> of my daughter's quincea~nera ( a.k.a. CavePearl ).
>
> I am only posting this hear, as I have not other way to get
> the story out to my friends, and I had invited a few cavers to
> attend.
>
> Below is a short summary ( hit delete button now )
>
> CavePearl's Mother ( herein, CPM ), planned most
> of the event, and I was just along for the ride, patching
> problems in the background.
>
> The police had to come and shut the party down at
> 1:30 a.m. this morning.   It
> was moved from the venue ( the neighborhood clubhouse ) back to CPM's house
> where it continued on as Mexican slumber-party for about 30 of my
> in-laws from Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico. Their caravan is southbound
> now on Hwy. 59
> heading back to Mexico. The party was quite extravagant
> and my mother-in-law now thinks I am an angel.CPM
> is happy that I rescued the party from an imminent disaster of lack of
> food and cold beverage.The Locklear clan is now northbound on I-45 for
> Midlothian
> /Mansfield.And my mom and her husband's family ( Tomlinson clan ) are
> back home near
> Cypress and The Woodlands.   And
> I just got back to Houston, after staying in a hotel nearly two days near
> Sienna Plantation ( party was 7 miles southwest of Arcola ).
>
> My Toyota Sequoia almost paid for itself during this event.CavePearl
> fainted during the photo-session.  I had to eat dinner next to my
> very estranged-ex-sister in-law, ( who had once assaulted me with an old
> telephone. )   CPM's boss and her boss' husband had dinner together for the
> first time in several years. My mom and biological-father were in the
> same
> room for only the 3rd time since 1972.Having him there was like having
> a sack of rocks tied to my leg and a scorpion in my pants.
>
> All 140 guest showed up with no food or beverage, but over a dozen
> friends of CPM slaved away on various task, that would have cost us
> thousands of dollars had we had to hire someone to do all that. I can
> only guess we got
> it done for under $ 3,000, ( not including what all the 140 guest spent on
> travel expenses )
>
> The venue was a new elegant building that was spacious,
> and very comfortable, which encouraged a lot of people to stay and
> socialize.  I was too doing party-task for the past 24 hours to take it
> all in and relax.The DJ was good ( teenage latino music ), and people
> danced for at least 4 hours, mostly
> the teenagers.But my 84 year old mother-in-law, and my 72 year old
> mom,
> danced once, as did many of the adult couples.
>
> [ Sidenote:  100% of my side of the family spends hours a day watching
> Foxnews, so their first
> quincean~era was a huge shock to their ideology about the direction
> American culture is heading in. ]
>
> A thousand photos and a hundred videos were taken, as if some royal person
> from an aristocratic
> family had just married.
>
> Party tip / lesson learned: Someone bring a sack of pita chips.
>
>
>
> I will likely have to skip TCR. See you all in 2020.
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Re: [Texascavers] quincea~nera

[Michael Gibbons]

I dont know what your talking about.  Apparently you don't either.  But
those words were spoken like a practiced racist.  I guess your true colors
are shining through.
Claims not to be prejudiced and posts hateful remarks like that.
Claims to having no intent of starting a fight and posts veiled innuendo
referring to his foe and their family.
I'd say those are words of a coward who hides behind fake convictions,
misplaced anger and a deep seated hate for everyone who does smolder with
the same failing ideology as he.
Sorry sports your lies are more than I'll tolerate. I can get along grizzly
bear but a thief and a liar wont be tolerated. Dont email me any more. I
have no use for you.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:01 PM Dwight Deal  wrote:

> I'm glad that the experience was educational for the 100% of your family
> who spends hours a day watching Foxnews.
>
> I can only imagine! NOT a Fake Event at all. But, will it have any effect
> on how they feel about those awful Mesicans?
>
>
> DirtDoc
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Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Michael Gibbons]

Recycling for the most part is a farce and cost more than making new. If it
weren't for saving on raw materials and easing a slight load on land fills
it would be a lark.
Fuel efficient cars ease the pocket book and are better for the
environment, but the question is this. Thanks to Trump we are for the first
time in history not dependent on the middle east for fuel. Why is fuel so
damn expensive then? I'll tell you why. It's because of greed. The domestic
supply costs let's say $30.00 a barrel. After refining and other related
costs our domestic fuel cost about 50% less than then the global supply at
the pump. Why are our domestic suppliers charging us the global per barrel
prices instead of their costs plus a decent profit. Greed.
Wind energy. I read recently that the cost of manufacturing and maintenance
of wind turbine energy far exceeds the energy output of the turbine over
its lifetime.
As for solar energy the carbon footprint for the manufacturing of panels is
astronomical as is the production of batteries. Then there is the hazardous
waste of the batteries to contend with. Again doesn't pass muster
economically.
Then there is the ethanol fiasco. Production of ethanol is 4 times the
price of fossil fuel and it ruins the efficiency and longevity of the
motors that use it. When you burn ethanol what is the by-product left in
your engine? Why that would be sugar.  Why not just put a pound of sugar in
your gas tank with each fill up. That's crazy no one would do that. Yes
they would we are all forced to when using ethanol.
As for the attorneys that offer a defense to criminals. Our system
guarantees a right to trial and a defense. Someone has to mount the defense
and the folks that do should give their best effort for each case just as a
prosecutor should. So that's an asinine correlation to draw.
Being coerced into falsifying time sheets is a cop out and a different name
for low moral and ethical fortitude. That is the same cop out as when one
declares that defense attorneys shouldn't do there job or at least
shouldn't be allowed to mount a bench as judge after the despicable act of
defending a criminal to ones dead level best.
On to the population of this planet. What is there to say about this. It is
a factor of basic math. Sustianance grows on an arithmetic ratio and
population grows on a geometric ratio. Never with twain meet on a gant
chart. That's what planned parenthood was supposed to take on. Realistic
affordability for couples wanting to procreate and the pros and cons of
children vs ones capability to provide for them.
Instead they morphed into a for profit baby killing machine because its
profitable and informing the would be parents of responsible procreation is
not.
As for the problem of needing to share ones space. Be more diligent in
selection of a flatmate who more closely meets the criteria you wish to
have in one. Perhaps the criteria was ill concieved. Perhaps the urgency to
cover cost overruns where the driving force in a hasty decision to generate
income rather than find a compatible candidate. That answer is to not
operate from an undercollaterialized position. Thoughtfully create a
criteria to be met prior to the search for a roommate and stick to the
criteria. If urgency to cover bills is the driving force than a person is
already living beyond their means and re-evaluating ones spending habits
would add clarity to the dilemma as would scrutinizing the means by which
one earns a living.
For the most part I enjoy your posts and the innocent manner in which you
view the world. But you know its dog eat dog out there. And no one is
responsible for the decisions made in your life but you. Hasty decsions and
those made from a position of disadvantage will like always add to ones
misery rather than alleviate any.
I run my whole rodeo on $1200.00 a month. I have a three bedroom house, a
vehicle and I manage everything I need and some of what I want. I have
simple needs with no fluff or extravagance. I repair everything that fails
myself. I dont eat out nor do it engage women that need maintaince.  I shop
everything and vehemently pursue any expenditure that is not what I agreed
it would be. I'll chase $5.00 in a heart beat if an online vendor or other
unscrupulous company tries to slicker fuck me. And I have 3nough left over
to pursue a couple of hobbies.
The answer my freind is the manner in which you conduct your affairs. You
need to increase the influx of capital or re-evaluate the expenditures or
both. But it's your chicken, we can hold it down for you but you've got to
fuck it.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 8:57 PM David  wrote:

> We are all conservationist here to some extent, and should be able to
> discuss
> conservation without getting our knickers in a wad, or using the p-word.
>
> Today in the world news, was a young passionate girl giving an official
> speech of
> some sort to the United Nations, I assume which was on behalf of her
> generation.
>
> Some of you may have seen 

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Open House

[Michael Gibbons]

Count me in Lindsey.

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 6:07 PM Lindsey Adamoski 
wrote:

> Hello Everyone!
>
> The Robber Baron Open House will be September 28th from 9am to 3pm. Joe
> Mitchell has stepped down from his years of hard work of organizing this
> huge event and I am taking over! Our last event was highly successful and
> we raised a lot of money for the Texas Cave Management Association. We plan
> to have another successful event. We will need volunteers!! We need
> volunteers in the cave and above ground for a variety of roles. Please let
> me know if you are able to volunteer. Also, please let me know if you know
> the "front half" of the cave (e.g. Male Passage/Female Passage/Chapel
> Room/etc) really well because we will be giving "off-trail" tours for
> people who sign up in advance but you have to be able to ad-lib routes and
> move about with confidence outside of the tourist route. I did that last
> year and it was a LOT of fun.
>
> If anybody wants to stay in New Braunfels we have room for a couple people
> in our guest room. We also have room for a couple tents in the backyard!
> I'm sure other Bexar Grotto members would be willing to accommodate as
> well. I hope to hear from you!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lindsey
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Re: [Texascavers] Climate change ??

[Michael Gibbons]

Dropped global warming all over the place.


On Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 9:44 PM David  wrote:

> Is this for real ??
>
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/freak-hail-storm-strikes-mexican-city-guadalajara-000911507.html
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Re: [Texascavers] Proclamation Sneak Peak and arrival update

[Michael Gibbons]

Very cool thanks for the notice.
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Re: [Texascavers] Snakebite management article

[Michael Gibbons]

Interesting article. He left me after about paragraph 1 with confusing
contradictory advise.
Over heart unless a rattler even with heart but moccasin below until you
get to the hospital where all bites are diagnosed so your picture doesn't
help unless you couldn't find the right hospital and the one your at
follows antiquated techniques so just don't do anything and pray to God
where ever your going the staff has never seen a snake bite so you can show
them this article and maybe live.

Point is new knowledge ain't always best knowledge. Every hospital I know
if knows how to treat bites that come in with conventional first aide. This
guy might the guru but even he is unconvinced that anyone else out there
can follow procedure. I'll stick to the mainstream treatment that every
Texas doctor has seen until this guys techniques are mainstream.

On Wed, May 29, 2019, 10:16 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> As cavers, we get out and about in some places that we share with snakes.
> Treatment recommendations have changed some since we might have taken first
> aid.
>
> Here is an excellent article on Snakebite Management (Pre-Hospital) from
> one of the forums I subscribe to. I think you will find it informative.
>
> The article was written by Dr. Spencer Greene who is an MD at Baylor in
> Houston and specializes in snakebite treatment. He has treated more than
> 600 bites from all kinds of snakes.
>
> I emailed him about treatment options in San Antonio and he also offered
> to come make a presentation. I was thinking he might be a good speaker for
> the spring TSA.
>
> While fatalities are rare, he notes that time is tissue damage and long
> term disability is a possibility.
>
> I think you'll find this a quick but important read.
>
>
> https://wsed.org/snakebite-management-pre-hospital/?fbclid=IwAR10kvndyfxVAA3_ovjSFo9izSMEmKxg_j03Aid4coN5xKtuSypZzAuz3T8
>
> Enjoy
>
> Geary Schindel
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Re: [Texascavers] spam related

[Michael Gibbons]

David,
If your server can't validate the security features of incoming email
servers it will dump them to spam. In order to avoid the problem in the
future, manually enter each clients email into your email  contacts on your
computer. Then import your contact list into your phone if you wish to
utilize your phone to send clients emails.
This problem occurs frequently when business have their own email server or
uses less mainstream email account that allows them to appear as if they
have their own domain.
Hope that helps.

On Feb 22, 2019 2:36 PM, "David"  wrote:

> Some of you out there that posted stuff on CaveTex, was considered spam by
> my Gmail account.  Not sure
> why that is. But I just found a very important email from a client
> dated Feb. 1st, and it is now too late to
> resolve the issue.  I just looked in my Spam folder for the first time
> in over a year, as several customers claimed
> that email I had sent them ( which were extremely time-sensitive ) ended
> up in their Spam folder.
>
> Life in 2019, is just way too complicated, and way too much drama, and way
> to much b.s.  I have left Facebook.   I have a bogus account just for
> emergencies,
> but if you message me there, I may not see it.
>
>
> On a different note,
>
> I had sent out a post or two relating to an individual ( former caver ? )
> that I was concerned
> about.   4 days have passed since I made a faithful effort to find someone
> that would have had a social media
> contact with her. That individual either does not want them to talk to
> me, or they are in hiding, hiatus, or worse.I went
> beyond the call of duty, to make sure they were okay.   If they are mad at
> me, then it was miscommunication
> on their part.   All they had to do was send me an emoji with a frowny
> face, or the finger or whatever.
> I am convinced that nobody is going to help them, if they are living in
> their car, our under a bridge.   I am also
> 100% certain that if they are in real serious danger, etc, that the local
> authorities are 150% not interested.
>
>
>
> ___
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> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Ernie update

[Michael Gibbons]

I will be happy to come and do any construction modifications here needs.
Does he have ex regress to the outside?

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 9:01 PM Nancy Weaver  Since coming home from rehab Ernie isn’t bouncing back and has been
> bedridden for the past week.  He and I had a long meeting with Billy Goerdt
> about what hospice can offer him.  Assuming he qualifies, we will start up
> as soon as possible.  I’ve arranged for local help to come in most
> mornings, make breakfast for him, help with meds and clean up.  And Don has
> offered to help most afternoons with heating up dinner.  Don also set up a
> remote so Ernie can watch tv.
> Hopefully hospice can take most of the afternoon shifts and give Don a
> break.
> Ernie and I also discussed the possibility of VA assisted living.  I need
> to visit with the VA social worker and find out what’s available.
> Meanwhile, none of the doorways at Ernies are large enough for either a
> wheelchair or walker, so we looking to hire some caver carpenters to come
> enlarge doorways.  Doesn’t have to be pretty, just safe and large.  Please
> contact me if you are interested in the job.
> Ernie has a phone by the bed and would love to talk with friends.  And
> visitors are always welcome, tho you should check with me to make sure he’s
> not at a dr appt at the time.  If you do visit, go around to the back door
> which will be unlocked, knock and open and come in.  Call out so he’s
> expecting you.
> thanks, all
> Nancy
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Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

I misspell shit because it drives yall freaking batty. Check you own
spelling. Your far from purfect.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 7:50 AM Bill Steele  Michael Gibbons, here, this may help.
>
> hypocrite -
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=hypocrite+meaning=UTF-8=UTF-8=en-us=safari
>
> Hippocrates -
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=hippocrates=UTF-8=UTF-8=en-us=safari
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So the politically charged federal shutdown is caving related and the
> facts, undistorted as they are, about the politically charged shutdown is
> propaganda.
> I'm not even gonna justisfy that complete lack of anything logic, with a
> response. I knew there was a reason I quit joining any discussion in this
> forum. If it ain't in agreement with your narrow minded ways you get
> singled out and your words get twisted.
> It's not like I don't monitor this media. As soon as yall posted me last
> time the ban on all things craving was lifted.
> I hate hippocrates more than I hate stupid.
> See ya in a year when I'm sure I'll talk myself into thinking you
> reasonable, unbiased, non judge mental, accepting folks. Im sure you'll
> disappoint.  This time took less than 24 hrs.
> Toddlers turds
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 6:42 AM John Brooks  wrote:
>
>> How did political propaganda creep onto the Texas Cavers email list ?
>>
>> Reinstate the ban on political discussions - keep this list ABOUT CAVES &
>> CAVING.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2019, at 5:00 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Write Chuck and Nancy and tell them to pretend their not hippocrates and
>> like they did when Obama was in office.
>> In Chuckles words when defending his unwavering position on a border
>> barrier and the 670mi he sponsored. Walls don't work, fences do.
>> As he was coming out of DNC headquarters, surrounded by 2 1/2 miles of
>> ten foot concrete wall with guard tended gates.
>> It doesn't matter who caused the debacle and the jury is still out in
>> that but the continuance falls squarely on the shoulders of an
>> irresponsible and hypocritical political leadership.
>> I feel for your plight but you should consider yourself lucky.  Lots of
>> folks deal with similar problems from layoffs that won't begin after
>> playing politics with our lives is not longer the hate Trump "crisis"
>> dujour.
>> People that have to strike to better their stature don't get letters to
>> send to their debtors even once and in most families in financial
>> difficulty the first thing to go and the last thing to resume is daycare.
>> Your quite fortunate to be so secure
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:11 AM Missy Singleton > wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with what Kathy said.  As a Fed we are regularly warned/taught
>>> about what we should and should not say regarding political issues to
>>> others and on social media.  The furlough sucks financially and
>>> environmentally.  Im actually stressed about not working because I know all
>>> the time sensitive issues I was working on will bottle neck.  Time
>>> sensitive analysis document regarding the potential to protect species in
>>> rapid decline.  I’m a non-essential so I’m not being asked to work without
>>> pay, thankfully.  Most of my coworkers have filed for unemployment and some
>>> are working for temp agencies.  I’m using this time to tackle big projects
>>> at home since we bought our house and moved when I was 9 months pregnant.
>>> Money is tight!  Daycare doesn’t care if I’m not getting paid and if we
>>> withdrew our kids to save money they’d loose there positions plus we’d have
>>> to pay registration again when re enrolling them.  The paperwork we got at
>>> the beginning of the furlough to share with creditors has expired. Issuing
>>> a new one sounds easy, but not when over 90% of us have elected to not have
>>> paper communication and all of our accounts are set for email notification
>>> and all of our government equipment is forbidden to be used and government
>>> website for our branch of DOI haven’t all been able to be maintained.  All
>>> of my information coming from leadership has come in the form of novel
>>> length text messages and extremely short notice conference calls.  We are
>>> all just trying to ride the big wave and cope the best we can.  I’m really
>>> proud of my efforts to learn how to restore our back deck and our new
>>> landscaping will look great when it’s completed.  Hopefully my g

Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

All I'm saying is if there is a rule that only gets applied when I have a
say that is no more or less about caving or cave related topic matter than
the person I'm addressing then yall are the ones with the problem.
BTW I listen to y'alls points of view constantly. And yall pushed me right
by never having a conversation that wasn't adversarial. Fact is I didn't
vote for Trump, I'm an independent, fiscal conservative, social leaning
liberal tendencies. The only thing that makes me right at all is I'm a war
monger. Sorry, grew up military, like shooting shit and shit to
smithereens.  Grew up rough and tiny consequently fought constantly. Pretty
good at it too. Signed on to this community because of the accepting nature
I encountered at first. Boy you disagree with global warming in this crowd
and you'll ferret out who your friends are right quick. Most of you have
never given 5 min to get to know me at all yet have judged, attempted to
ostracize and have blackballed me from ever holding any office in any of
the related programs. So before you get on my ass I suggest you take a good
hard look at yourself. It ain't pretty.
BTW you grow the fuck up asshole.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 7:51 AM John Brooks  Oh good grief Michael - become an adult.
>
> Many of us don’t want to listen to your radicalized political views any
> more than you want to listen to ours.
>
> This list is about CAVES and CAVING.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So the politically charged federal shutdown is caving related and the
> facts, undistorted as they are, about the politically charged shutdown is
> propaganda.
> I'm not even gonna justisfy that complete lack of anything logic, with a
> response. I knew there was a reason I quit joining any discussion in this
> forum. If it ain't in agreement with your narrow minded ways you get
> singled out and your words get twisted.
> It's not like I don't monitor this media. As soon as yall posted me last
> time the ban on all things craving was lifted.
> I hate hippocrates more than I hate stupid.
> See ya in a year when I'm sure I'll talk myself into thinking you
> reasonable, unbiased, non judge mental, accepting folks. Im sure you'll
> disappoint.  This time took less than 24 hrs.
> Toddlers turds
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 6:42 AM John Brooks  wrote:
>
>> How did political propaganda creep onto the Texas Cavers email list ?
>>
>> Reinstate the ban on political discussions - keep this list ABOUT CAVES &
>> CAVING.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2019, at 5:00 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Write Chuck and Nancy and tell them to pretend their not hippocrates and
>> like they did when Obama was in office.
>> In Chuckles words when defending his unwavering position on a border
>> barrier and the 670mi he sponsored. Walls don't work, fences do.
>> As he was coming out of DNC headquarters, surrounded by 2 1/2 miles of
>> ten foot concrete wall with guard tended gates.
>> It doesn't matter who caused the debacle and the jury is still out in
>> that but the continuance falls squarely on the shoulders of an
>> irresponsible and hypocritical political leadership.
>> I feel for your plight but you should consider yourself lucky.  Lots of
>> folks deal with similar problems from layoffs that won't begin after
>> playing politics with our lives is not longer the hate Trump "crisis"
>> dujour.
>> People that have to strike to better their stature don't get letters to
>> send to their debtors even once and in most families in financial
>> difficulty the first thing to go and the last thing to resume is daycare.
>> Your quite fortunate to be so secure
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:11 AM Missy Singleton > wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with what Kathy said.  As a Fed we are regularly warned/taught
>>> about what we should and should not say regarding political issues to
>>> others and on social media.  The furlough sucks financially and
>>> environmentally.  Im actually stressed about not working because I know all
>>> the time sensitive issues I was working on will bottle neck.  Time
>>> sensitive analysis document regarding the potential to protect species in
>>> rapid decline.  I’m a non-essential so I’m not being asked to work without
>>> pay, thankfully.  Most of my coworkers have filed for unemployment and some
>>> are working for temp agencies.  I’m using this time to tackle big projects
>>> at home since we bought our house and moved when I was 9 months pregnant.
>>> Money is tight!  Daycare doesn’t care if I’m not g

Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

So the politically charged federal shutdown is caving related and the
facts, undistorted as they are, about the politically charged shutdown is
propaganda.
I'm not even gonna justisfy that complete lack of anything logic, with a
response. I knew there was a reason I quit joining any discussion in this
forum. If it ain't in agreement with your narrow minded ways you get
singled out and your words get twisted.
It's not like I don't monitor this media. As soon as yall posted me last
time the ban on all things craving was lifted.
I hate hippocrates more than I hate stupid.
See ya in a year when I'm sure I'll talk myself into thinking you
reasonable, unbiased, non judge mental, accepting folks. Im sure you'll
disappoint.  This time took less than 24 hrs.
Toddlers turds

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 6:42 AM John Brooks  How did political propaganda creep onto the Texas Cavers email list ?
>
> Reinstate the ban on political discussions - keep this list ABOUT CAVES &
> CAVING.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 5:00 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Write Chuck and Nancy and tell them to pretend their not hippocrates and
> like they did when Obama was in office.
> In Chuckles words when defending his unwavering position on a border
> barrier and the 670mi he sponsored. Walls don't work, fences do.
> As he was coming out of DNC headquarters, surrounded by 2 1/2 miles of ten
> foot concrete wall with guard tended gates.
> It doesn't matter who caused the debacle and the jury is still out in that
> but the continuance falls squarely on the shoulders of an irresponsible and
> hypocritical political leadership.
> I feel for your plight but you should consider yourself lucky.  Lots of
> folks deal with similar problems from layoffs that won't begin after
> playing politics with our lives is not longer the hate Trump "crisis"
> dujour.
> People that have to strike to better their stature don't get letters to
> send to their debtors even once and in most families in financial
> difficulty the first thing to go and the last thing to resume is daycare.
> Your quite fortunate to be so secure
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:11 AM Missy Singleton  wrote:
>
>> I agree with what Kathy said.  As a Fed we are regularly warned/taught
>> about what we should and should not say regarding political issues to
>> others and on social media.  The furlough sucks financially and
>> environmentally.  Im actually stressed about not working because I know all
>> the time sensitive issues I was working on will bottle neck.  Time
>> sensitive analysis document regarding the potential to protect species in
>> rapid decline.  I’m a non-essential so I’m not being asked to work without
>> pay, thankfully.  Most of my coworkers have filed for unemployment and some
>> are working for temp agencies.  I’m using this time to tackle big projects
>> at home since we bought our house and moved when I was 9 months pregnant.
>> Money is tight!  Daycare doesn’t care if I’m not getting paid and if we
>> withdrew our kids to save money they’d loose there positions plus we’d have
>> to pay registration again when re enrolling them.  The paperwork we got at
>> the beginning of the furlough to share with creditors has expired. Issuing
>> a new one sounds easy, but not when over 90% of us have elected to not have
>> paper communication and all of our accounts are set for email notification
>> and all of our government equipment is forbidden to be used and government
>> website for our branch of DOI haven’t all been able to be maintained.  All
>> of my information coming from leadership has come in the form of novel
>> length text messages and extremely short notice conference calls.  We are
>> all just trying to ride the big wave and cope the best we can.  I’m really
>> proud of my efforts to learn how to restore our back deck and our new
>> landscaping will look great when it’s completed.  Hopefully my garden will
>> be productive coming out of this as well.
>> Missy
>> DOI, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Employee in Arlington, TX.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2019, at 2:03 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Trump signed a new bill into law a few days ago that will back pay the
>> furloughed federal employees with very few exceptions. It was democratic
>> sponsored bill that passed the Senate and the house and was signed as soon
>> as it hit trump's desk.
>> But of course the media didn't cover it. They don't like covering
>> anything good the man does. Funny thing though it takes the thunder away
>> from the dems that sponsered it. Kinda takes away the motivation to do
>

Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

Write Chuck and Nancy and tell them to pretend their not hippocrates and
like they did when Obama was in office.
In Chuckles words when defending his unwavering position on a border
barrier and the 670mi he sponsored. Walls don't work, fences do.
As he was coming out of DNC headquarters, surrounded by 2 1/2 miles of ten
foot concrete wall with guard tended gates.
It doesn't matter who caused the debacle and the jury is still out in that
but the continuance falls squarely on the shoulders of an irresponsible and
hypocritical political leadership.
I feel for your plight but you should consider yourself lucky.  Lots of
folks deal with similar problems from layoffs that won't begin after
playing politics with our lives is not longer the hate Trump "crisis"
dujour.
People that have to strike to better their stature don't get letters to
send to their debtors even once and in most families in financial
difficulty the first thing to go and the last thing to resume is daycare.
Your quite fortunate to be so secure

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:11 AM Missy Singleton  I agree with what Kathy said.  As a Fed we are regularly warned/taught
> about what we should and should not say regarding political issues to
> others and on social media.  The furlough sucks financially and
> environmentally.  Im actually stressed about not working because I know all
> the time sensitive issues I was working on will bottle neck.  Time
> sensitive analysis document regarding the potential to protect species in
> rapid decline.  I’m a non-essential so I’m not being asked to work without
> pay, thankfully.  Most of my coworkers have filed for unemployment and some
> are working for temp agencies.  I’m using this time to tackle big projects
> at home since we bought our house and moved when I was 9 months pregnant.
> Money is tight!  Daycare doesn’t care if I’m not getting paid and if we
> withdrew our kids to save money they’d loose there positions plus we’d have
> to pay registration again when re enrolling them.  The paperwork we got at
> the beginning of the furlough to share with creditors has expired. Issuing
> a new one sounds easy, but not when over 90% of us have elected to not have
> paper communication and all of our accounts are set for email notification
> and all of our government equipment is forbidden to be used and government
> website for our branch of DOI haven’t all been able to be maintained.  All
> of my information coming from leadership has come in the form of novel
> length text messages and extremely short notice conference calls.  We are
> all just trying to ride the big wave and cope the best we can.  I’m really
> proud of my efforts to learn how to restore our back deck and our new
> landscaping will look great when it’s completed.  Hopefully my garden will
> be productive coming out of this as well.
> Missy
> DOI, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Employee in Arlington, TX.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 2:03 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Trump signed a new bill into law a few days ago that will back pay the
> furloughed federal employees with very few exceptions. It was democratic
> sponsored bill that passed the Senate and the house and was signed as soon
> as it hit trump's desk.
> But of course the media didn't cover it. They don't like covering anything
> good the man does. Funny thing though it takes the thunder away from the
> dems that sponsered it. Kinda takes away the motivation to do anything
> bipartisan. But the media is really our friend.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 8:56 PM Katherine Arens  wrote:
>
>> yes, he may get paid IF he’s actually working without pay — and it’s
>> likely the interest will add up.  THis is a rotten situation for federal
>> employees.
>> Write your local congressperson .. .  whatever side you’re on
>> katie
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> They will all get back paid when it's over. I'm sure his mortgage company
>> will understand. Especially if he drops them a line.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 1:25 PM Cathy Winfrey > wrote:
>>
>>> How David.
>>> If a Federal Employee wants to go the distance, they will keep their
>>> opinions very close. Not air them on a public forum.
>>> My brother works for the Forest Service, and will talk to me, but never
>>> where his opinions can be overheard.
>>> He's NOT watching the news, and doing woodworking projects.
>>> Perhaps fretting about his mortgage next month, a bit.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:48 PM David >>
>>>> There is all sorts of stuff to talk about, yet it seems quiet out there
>>>> on CaveTex.
>>>>

Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

Trump signed a new bill into law a few days ago that will back pay the
furloughed federal employees with very few exceptions. It was democratic
sponsored bill that passed the Senate and the house and was signed as soon
as it hit trump's desk.
But of course the media didn't cover it. They don't like covering anything
good the man does. Funny thing though it takes the thunder away from the
dems that sponsered it. Kinda takes away the motivation to do anything
bipartisan. But the media is really our friend.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 8:56 PM Katherine Arens  yes, he may get paid IF he’s actually working without pay — and it’s
> likely the interest will add up.  THis is a rotten situation for federal
> employees.
> Write your local congressperson .. .  whatever side you’re on
> katie
>
> On Jan 21, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> They will all get back paid when it's over. I'm sure his mortgage company
> will understand. Especially if he drops them a line.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 1:25 PM Cathy Winfrey  wrote:
>
>> How David.
>> If a Federal Employee wants to go the distance, they will keep their
>> opinions very close. Not air them on a public forum.
>> My brother works for the Forest Service, and will talk to me, but never
>> where his opinions can be overheard.
>> He's NOT watching the news, and doing woodworking projects.
>> Perhaps fretting about his mortgage next month, a bit.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:48 PM David >
>>> There is all sorts of stuff to talk about, yet it seems quiet out there
>>> on CaveTex.
>>>
>>> Any of you affected by the gov't shutdown.
>>>
>>> I recall there is a caver who works for the Border Patrol or something
>>> similar to that.
>>>
>>> I know a semi-retired caver it east Texas ( who would prefer to remain
>>> anonymous ) has
>>> been on furlough.
>>>
>>> I imagine there are cavers in Carlsbad or that work for caves on land
>>> controlled by the
>>> Federal Government, that might be affected.I can only guess they are
>>> using their
>>> spare time to go caving.
>>>
>>> I do not think the shutdown is affecting me.I sometimes deliver
>>> court summons for the
>>> Federal courts, but that is not really any significant part of my income.
>>>
>>> The news media is making a faithful effort to make it sound like
>>> Armageddon is about to begin.
>>>
>>> There is plenty of fun exciting news going on, but you have to hunt for
>>> it. Watching YouTube,
>>> occasionally one will find an interesting video.There are other
>>> places on the web with interesting
>>> videos.( I do not watch much tv.I just found out yesterday that,
>>> I missed Season One of Star Trek
>>> Discovery )
>>>
>>> On a lighter note,
>>>
>>> an enormous gigantic wall is being built in Houston. This wall
>>> serves several purposes,
>>> but one of which is security. It is only a mile long though, and is
>>> much more sturdy than they walls shown
>>> along the southern Texas border.  Yet, not a single person is
>>> protesting this wall, paid for by Texas taxpapers.
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>>
>> ___
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>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
> 
> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. 

Re: [Texascavers] Federal shutdown, etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

They will all get back paid when it's over. I'm sure his mortgage company
will understand. Especially if he drops them a line.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 1:25 PM Cathy Winfrey  How David.
> If a Federal Employee wants to go the distance, they will keep their
> opinions very close. Not air them on a public forum.
> My brother works for the Forest Service, and will talk to me, but never
> where his opinions can be overheard.
> He's NOT watching the news, and doing woodworking projects.
> Perhaps fretting about his mortgage next month, a bit.
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:48 PM David 
>> There is all sorts of stuff to talk about, yet it seems quiet out there
>> on CaveTex.
>>
>> Any of you affected by the gov't shutdown.
>>
>> I recall there is a caver who works for the Border Patrol or something
>> similar to that.
>>
>> I know a semi-retired caver it east Texas ( who would prefer to remain
>> anonymous ) has
>> been on furlough.
>>
>> I imagine there are cavers in Carlsbad or that work for caves on land
>> controlled by the
>> Federal Government, that might be affected.I can only guess they are
>> using their
>> spare time to go caving.
>>
>> I do not think the shutdown is affecting me.I sometimes deliver court
>> summons for the
>> Federal courts, but that is not really any significant part of my income.
>>
>> The news media is making a faithful effort to make it sound like
>> Armageddon is about to begin.
>>
>> There is plenty of fun exciting news going on, but you have to hunt for
>> it. Watching YouTube,
>> occasionally one will find an interesting video.There are other
>> places on the web with interesting
>> videos.( I do not watch much tv.I just found out yesterday that,
>> I missed Season One of Star Trek
>> Discovery )
>>
>> On a lighter note,
>>
>> an enormous gigantic wall is being built in Houston. This wall serves
>> several purposes,
>> but one of which is security. It is only a mile long though, and is
>> much more sturdy than they walls shown
>> along the southern Texas border.  Yet, not a single person is
>> protesting this wall, paid for by Texas taxpapers.
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] dumpster dive party

[Michael Gibbons]

Say hello to Ted for me Bill.
Party on.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:28 PM Bill Bentley  Nah I got and old used second hand home made one made out of a
> refrigerator, it still works but occasionally its slips and you be off a
> year or so. Lol...
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:21 PM Scott Boyd 
>> Bill - did you use your Delorean time machine?
>>
>> Scott D. Boyd
>> GPS Technician - TX, LA, AR, OK & MS
>> Professional Transportation, Inc.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:15 PM Bill Bentley >
>>> I had to fax something a while back, I had to fire up my time machine
>>> and go back to 1985 and find a fax machine!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 9:07 PM David >>
 From David Locklear

 I am way way out of the loop on this topic and any caving topic.

 There is or once was a fancy 10 gallon mining bucket in Ernie's storage
 shed.I would like to either have this bucket and accessories returned
 to me,
 or make sure it perpetually ends up in "The Texas Speleological
 Center."   The old hunk of metal may look like a rusty bucket and chain,
 but it is worth far more money than it appears.   The lifting brace alone
 was forged with magic speleo-love more powerful than the legendary sword of
 Excalibur.  Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration.   I had the lift-brace
 custom fabricated by an engineering firm and specially heat-treated.

 Ernie told me recently that I had some boots there too.  I can not
 imagine they would still be any good after 5 years of dry-rot, plus my foot
 has grown since then.


 On a totally different note,

 I am buried in work, and finally steadly making money ( about $ 500 a
 week.)   I know that is chump change, but being self-employed is an
 achievement in itself.   The quantity of my work appears to be growing, but
 it could be an illusion.

 As of today, I now have an cloud-based fax number using

   www.xenfax.com

 The service is not yet working quite right.  The number is supposed to
 be 832-410-8050.  Fax me a smiley-face if you can, so I can test it.I
 can now see the benefits of such a service.I had used Camscanner app
 for 2 years as my fax tool, but it is a different tool than XenFax.  Like a
 ratchet-screwdriver compared to an electric driver. Camscanner was not
 doing the faxing task the way I needed it done.   The lower cost of XenFax
 will hopefully be the solution.If you want to see how it works, text me
 privately, but I imagine it is just like efax or smartfax, etc.

 David
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Re: [Texascavers] Ernie Garza cloned Facebook account

[Michael Gibbons]

The FBI has an internet fraid division.
The San Antonio office number is
210-225-6741. They take these things quite seriously.
Good luck finding anyone with Facebook.

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:52 PM Frank  If you recently accepted a Facebook friend request from “Ernest Garza”,
> you’ve been tricked by a hacker’s clone account. How to know the difference
> between Ernie’s real Facebook account and the clone? Ernie’s real account
> has a profile photo and 372 friends; the clone has no profile photo and
> under 30 friends (almost all gullible cavers).
> Can someone local help Ernie report the clone.
> Frank Binney
>
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Texascavers] Lee Jay in hospital

[Michael Gibbons]

Thank you for the news Justin.
Please pass on my condolences and prayers to Lee Jay and family.

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 7:33 PM Justin Shaw  Lee Jay Graves has suffered a massive stroke with subarachnoid bleeding.
> His condition continues to deteriorate and he is not expected to recover.
>
> If you would like to visit him he is at the main St. David’s hospital on
> 32nd St. here in Austin. He is on the 5th floor, room 555. Nurses recommend
> coming tonight or early tomorrow. There are no restrictions on visiting
> hours. Though he seems unresponsive, the sense of hearing is often the last
> to go.
>
> His family is aware, and his sisters are in route and expected to arrive
> tonight or early tomorrow morning.
>
> If you would like details, I’m willing to talk on the phone. 512-593-2283
>
> With Love,
> Justin
>
>
>
> (apologies for such a heavy post, however when you’ve touched as many
> lives as LJ did, there’s too many people who’ll want to be in the loop for
> me to even think of everyone, much less directly contact everyone)
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Anybody have any Carl Imhoff stories?

[Michael Gibbons]

You make light. Having been the soon of a prosecutor and later a judge I
saw too many "laughable encounters" go tradgically, horribly bad.

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018, 8:18 AM Underground Texas Grotto 
wrote:

> Haha, alright, thanks guys.  I'll pass that info along.  She met an apple
> picking pathological lier, or got the name wrong.
>
> No big deal, it was just out of curiosity.
> Thank you anyway!
> Patty and Bev
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018, 00:46 Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> She said West Texas and there's no one by that name or any combination or
>> spelling of that name in Texas or Colorado
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2018 12:32 AM, "Logan"  wrote:
>>
>> That's the first place I checked too. I don't remember ever hearing his
>> name. Any more specifics on where in central TX? Maybe he didn't belong to
>> any organized caving group.
>>
>> On 10/7/2018 11:06 PM, Bill Steele wrote:
>>
>> Carl Imhoff’s name in not listed in the index of Kunath’s book “Fifty
>> Years of Texas Caving”.
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2018, at 10:53 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have a very sophisticated locater and am unable to find any Carl Imhoff
>> in Texas or Colorado. Nor can a Carl Imhof, Karl Imhoff and Karl Imhof be
>> found in either state.
>> There is a Karl Imhof in NJ with very high brow addresses and a somewhat
>> shady past. One employer listed. Imhof transport founded 12/1998 and never
>> again did it do business.
>> Be careful. Might be a traveling serial killer. Has had 38 addresses all
>> in NJ and 89 NJ phone numbers.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 10:23 PM Underground Texas Grotto <
>> utgro...@oztotl.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-
>>>
>>> "I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
>>> Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
>>> about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".
>>>
>>>
>>> Take it easy everybody,
>>> Patty Calabrese
>>> UT Grotto Vice Chair
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>>>
>>
>> On Oct 7, 2018 10:23 PM, "Underground Texas Grotto" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-
>>
>> "I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
>> Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
>> about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".
>>
>>
>> Take it easy everybody,
>> Patty Calabrese
>> UT Grotto Vice Chair
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>>
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Re: [Texascavers] Anybody have any Carl Imhoff stories?

[Michael Gibbons]

She said West Texas and there's no one by that name or any combination or
spelling of that name in Texas or Colorado

On Oct 8, 2018 12:32 AM, "Logan"  wrote:

That's the first place I checked too. I don't remember ever hearing his
name. Any more specifics on where in central TX? Maybe he didn't belong to
any organized caving group.

On 10/7/2018 11:06 PM, Bill Steele wrote:

Carl Imhoff’s name in not listed in the index of Kunath’s book “Fifty Years
of Texas Caving”.

On Oct 7, 2018, at 10:53 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a very sophisticated locater and am unable to find any Carl Imhoff
in Texas or Colorado. Nor can a Carl Imhof, Karl Imhoff and Karl Imhof be
found in either state.
There is a Karl Imhof in NJ with very high brow addresses and a somewhat
shady past. One employer listed. Imhof transport founded 12/1998 and never
again did it do business.
Be careful. Might be a traveling serial killer. Has had 38 addresses all in
NJ and 89 NJ phone numbers.


On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 10:23 PM Underground Texas Grotto 
wrote:

> I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-
>
> "I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
> Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
> about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".
>
>
> Take it easy everybody,
> Patty Calabrese
> UT Grotto Vice Chair
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>

On Oct 7, 2018 10:23 PM, "Underground Texas Grotto" 
wrote:

I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-

"I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".


Take it easy everybody,
Patty Calabrese
UT Grotto Vice Chair
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Re: [Texascavers] Anybody have any Carl Imhoff stories?

[Michael Gibbons]

Even searched for Carol I'm off all spellings of last name.
Found 1 from cowton. Ft Worth, North Texas was a women moved to California.

On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 10:23 PM Underground Texas Grotto 
wrote:

> I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-
>
> "I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
> Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
> about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".
>
>
> Take it easy everybody,
> Patty Calabrese
> UT Grotto Vice Chair
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Re: [Texascavers] Anybody have any Carl Imhoff stories?

[Michael Gibbons]

I have a very sophisticated locater and am unable to find any Carl Imhoff
in Texas or Colorado. Nor can a Carl Imhof, Karl Imhoff and Karl Imhof be
found in either state.
There is a Karl Imhof in NJ with very high brow addresses and a somewhat
shady past. One employer listed. Imhof transport founded 12/1998 and never
again did it do business.
Be careful. Might be a traveling serial killer. Has had 38 addresses all in
NJ and 89 NJ phone numbers.


On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 10:23 PM Underground Texas Grotto 
wrote:

> I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-
>
> "I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
> Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
> about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".
>
>
> Take it easy everybody,
> Patty Calabrese
> UT Grotto Vice Chair
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>

On Oct 7, 2018 10:23 PM, "Underground Texas Grotto" 
wrote:

I'm sending this out on behalf of Bev Shade who now lives in Colorado-

"I went picking apples today and met a young man who said his father was
Carl Imhoff, a central TX caver in the 60’s and 70’s who headed out west
about 1980.  I was wondering if any of our peeps knew or remembered Carl".


Take it easy everybody,
Patty Calabrese
UT Grotto Vice Chair
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Jim Evatt nailed it.: Our beloved Rio Grande

[Michael Gibbons]

Get a rope

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:00 PM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> I’ll see if I can weight in and make some sense. My understanding is that
> water below Del Rio and the Falcon Reservoir are used for irrigation in the
> lower Rio Grande Valley. In some very dry years, there is insufficient
> water to meet all the irrigation demands and that the Rio Grande doesn’t
> make it all the way to the gulf. There are claims that Mexico isn’t
> honoring their IBWC agreement to discharge water from dams on the Rio
> Conchos River to sustain demand in the lower valley. We have an agreement
> to discharge water from the Lower Colorado into Mexico. Turns out that the
> area between the US/Mexico border south of Nogales is an important
> vegetable growing area in Mexico so very little if any water makes it to
> the Gulf of California.
>
>
>
> This is a lot of detailed literature available on the subject which is
> worth looking into.
>
>
>
> Geary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* swrcav...@googlegroups.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Wood
> *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2018 3:21 PM
> *To:* Ormsby, Matthew A 
> *Cc:* Dwight Deal ; John Corcoran III <
> john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com>; Lee Skinner ; Evatt <
> nmca...@centurylink.net>; Cave Texas ; Cave
> NM 
> *Subject:* Re: [SWR CAVERS] Jim Evatt nailed it.: Our beloved Rio Grande
>
>
>
> Mathew,
>
>
>
> I am so glad you weighed in and offered such an awesome perspective. I
> wonder what Texas is doing with the Rio Grande water that is flowing south
> out of NM right now? I am super uninformed about Texas hydrology and you
> along with others in this stream have aided me in becoming more informed.
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> This topic, as we all have mentioned is super complex dating back to the
> mid 1800’s. The challenge we all face is that being  complex (and
> convoluted) cannot be allowed to cloud out manageability and conflict
> dispute resolution. Water is by far the topic most in need of being
> addressed across the globe. A great book on the subject is “The Big Thirst”
> by Charles Fishman.
>
>
>
> My challenge is, how to get my sailboat out of Elephant Butte if it goes
> much lower. Life is an adventure or nothing at all. :-)
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Ormsby, Matthew A <
> matthew.orm...@usoncology.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
>
>
> I wasn’t going to post anything but I think there’s a tremendous
> misconception about the Rio Grande in Texas. Probably the one thing I do
> more often than cave is paddle rivers so I have some perspective of West
> Texas waterways that’s unique. A month ago I took a group of scouts
> upstream into Santa Elena Canyon on a canoe assisted hike. If you call Big
> Bend, it’s usually advertised as such. In sections of the canyon the water
> was no more than 2 inches deep. The canyon is a pool and drop just like the
> Pecos and Devil’s River so it pools up, gets deep and drops over a ledge
> that’s usually fairly shallow. I’ve paddled the entire Big Bend From Santa
> Elena all the way through Boquilla’s on several different trips at
> different times of the year and in different years. When the Rio Grande is
> deep in Texas, it’s because of rain in Texas and Mexico, not from water
> coming from New Mexico (generally speaking). The West Gulf RFC website
> displays river gauges that demonstrate as much if you check them often and
> know what you’re looking at. The Rio below Santa Elena gets deeper due to
> numerous hot springs and creeks but they are dependent on rainfall as well.
> A decade ago a Mexican dam crested and the entire Big Bend was flooded,
> again, not from New Mexico and snowmelt but from the Rio Conchos and a
> hurricane that filled their lake. What should be noted is Lake Amistad gets
> its water from the Rio Grande AND the Pecos River AND the Devil’s River.
>
>
>
> Now take everything I’ve said about the Rio Grande and put the name Pecos
> in its place, Texas gets virtually NO water coming down the Pecos River.
> Most of it is impounded upstream ending in Red Bluff lake on the boarder.
> If you’ve driven from Monahans to Pecos it’s not uncommon to see it dry on
> both sides of the highway. The Pecos and Devils have numerous springs that
> add tremendous volume during their last 60 miles (46 for the devils),
> completely dependent on rainfall. Right now, all 3 rivers are at high
> volumes due to the amount of rain we’ve had over the past several weeks
> south of I-10. I’m itching to take my boats out because the best trips are
> riding the tail ends of flash floods. The rivers can gain 30 feet in height
> in the lower canyons in under an hour but they usually drop to normal
> levels within days.
>
>
>
> 5 years ago my brother and I paddled the devils river on the tail end of a
> flash flood all the way into Amistad. It’s a 46 mile trip with 12 miles of
> lake paddling (really hard into the wind paddling). Well, we got to mile 34
> and started our canoe assisted hike because Amistad was so low the lake,
> which should 

Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / scam?

[Michael Gibbons]

Charles, I don't know you nor do I know Linda. I hope that was an inside
joke of some sort.
If not, I apologise for that comment. Not only is there no room for that
sort of misguided logic in our organization, there's no room for it in
addressing anyone.
I regret you were target of thoughtless derogetory speak.

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 10:41 AM Charles Loving  wrote:

> As an immigrant myself I never comply with any of those demands or deals.
> I am a Brit by birth so I had to learn French, German and Latin before I
> came to the EEUU.
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:14 AM, Linda Starr  wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Diana. The NSS did give you all notice. Read your NSS News. Be
>> a little more tolerant and teach tolerance except of people who are not
>> tolerant of immigrants (you are one), children who can’t read or write and
>> those who pollute and misuse natural resources.
>> Linda Starr
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2018, at 4:06 PM, Charles Goldsmith 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Diana, current members update this yearly when they renew, or if they
>> renew multiple years, then when it expires.  If someone chose to let their
>> membership lapse, then this is unsolicited contact.
>>
>> I understand the reason for this, but it was not handled properly, in my
>> opinion and I certainly didn't opt in for any phone calls at any time.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:52 PM Diana Tomchick <
>> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> ​Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> The NSS, like lots of volunteer organizations, needs to know who are the
>>> people that are interested in receiving information from the organization.
>>> Since many people change email addresses and phone numbers, after a few
>>> years, the database is no longer current. This is an effective way to
>>> update the database by a professional company. It's impractical to ask a
>>> group of volunteer cavers to contact ~10,000 people to ask them about their
>>> personal information--and imagine how upset y'all would be if you knew it
>>> was just some random volunteer cavers trying to collect this information.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why does the NSS need this information? As with most organizations these
>>> days, the membership numbers are decreasing. In order for the NSS to stay
>>> relevant to their current members and to encourage people to renew their
>>> memberships, they need to be able to provide information to them.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would hope that as the fine cavers you all are in the Southwest Region
>>> of the NSS, that you would not want to deny the NSS the opportunity to
>>> interact with you in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>> Diana
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>> Diana R. Tomchick
>>> Professor
>>> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
>>> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
>>> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=5323+Harry+Hines+Blvd=gmail=g>.
>>> Rm. ND10.214A
>>> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
>>> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
>>> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
>>> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>>> --
>>> *From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
>>> Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 19, 2018 5:24 PM
>>> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
>>> *Cc:* Steve Peerman; SWR Cavers Group; Sandia Grotto; Allen Wright; Lee
>>> Skinner
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / scam?
>>>
>>> I phoned in. I authorized use of name, phone number and email.
>>> Asked if I wanted a directory, I said no. It wasn't a hard sell and they
>>> weren't after ant information that I seem sensitive.
>>> I think it's innocuous and that they are doing just what they were hired
>>> to do. Compile a directory and nothing more.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:16 PM Stephen Fleming 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Do not call' doesn't apply, since the contractor presumably is not the
>>>> one making the calls.
>>>>
>>>> However, regarding the list, there is an exemption for non-profits.
>>>> But, while the contractor is working for a non-profit, the company itself
>>>> is a for-profit entity. It would be an interesting question whether they
>>>> would get a pass due to the NSS overhead.
>>>>
>>&

Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / scam?

[Michael Gibbons]

Apparently you didn't read my email.  An option to reply is to call them.
Which I did.  It was a pleasant experience.  They verified my info and
asked what info I  authorized to be included in the publication.
They asked my if I wished to purchase a directory and I told them not at
this time.  And that was it.
I'm proud to be a member of the NSS
and am happy to include my contact info.  Perhaps one day I might find
someone I once knew through this effort. Perhaps someone will need a place
to stay or help with a broken auto while cruising through San Antonio and
I'm the only one listed.  I'd be able to help them.
I doubt the motives of the NSS are nefarious and the ownership of the
company collecting the information is contractually obliged not to
deceminate our information to any other entities save our own.
The solution to not having your information compromised is to choose not to
participate.
All this pissing  and moaning is petty and becoming tiresome.
Just opt out. That simple.


On Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 4:04 PM Stephen Fleming  wrote:

> It is a marketing thing authorized by the NSS.
>
> The NSS says it is costing the organization no money and the contractor
> funds the effort from sales of the rather pricey merchandise.
>
> However, the NSS will get a cut of proceeds: "This is NOT a significant
> fund raiser for NSS, thought [sic] we do get a small commission on sales."
>
> The percentage of return is not stated, and the postcard is disingenuous
> in not revealing this financial arrangement. You have to search the NSS
> website to find that tidbit.
>
> Regardless, I won't be calling or participating; the NSS knows how to
> contact me and they already have everything they need to know.
>
> Allen's listing of the questions asked goes way beyond basic caver info
> and seeks information the NSS has no business collecting.
>
> I put this thing in the same category as telemarketers. Unwelcome and not
> tolerated.
>
> I did not opt-in for the NSS to release my contact information, even to a
> contractor, for such a use. The fact that I can decide not to participate
> pales beside the NSS misusing my personal data.
>
> Stephen
> 13727 RL FE
>
>
>
> On 7/19/2018 14:25, Steve Peerman wrote:
>
> Allen,
> It’s not a scam, but you are under no obligation to buy the product that
> they are making.  It is supposed to be an NSS directory of all NSS members
> past and present.  I submitted my information, but I didn’t buy the book.
> It seems rather pricey to me.
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2018, at 2:22 PM, Allen  wrote:
>
> Hey all,
> Just received a postcard from some publishing company about the NSS
> members manual.  Anyone else receive one? Its a yellow postcard with the
> NSS logo on it. It has a title of "Verification of caver data" in all caps,
>  and a Po Box in Dallas Tx.
>
> I called the number on the card and the phone operator started asking some
> odd questions about place of employment, phone numbers, email, marital
> status, name of spouse, name of kids, grotto affiliation.  Then at the end
> they want you to send them a color picture of yourself, a bill would then
> be sent out for two payments of $50 for the hard bound book.  Or because I
> am a member, would bundle a sweatshirt, and book bag, and a digital copy,
> for two payments of $75...  I didn't provide much info, but started
> questioning it by the end.
>
> Anyone know anything about this?  Is it a scam?   Is the NSS publishing
> the members manual in hardback?
> Allen
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_-810940256098833883_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / scam?

[Michael Gibbons]

I phoned in. I authorized use of name, phone number and email.
Asked if I wanted a directory, I said no. It wasn't a hard sell and they
weren't after ant information that I seem sensitive.
I think it's innocuous and that they are doing just what they were hired to
do. Compile a directory and nothing more.


On Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 5:16 PM Stephen Fleming  wrote:

> "Do not call' doesn't apply, since the contractor presumably is not the
> one making the calls.
>
> However, regarding the list, there is an exemption for non-profits. But,
> while the contractor is working for a non-profit, the company itself is a
> for-profit entity. It would be an interesting question whether they would
> get a pass due to the NSS overhead.
>
> Unsolicited emails pretty much follow the same scheme.
>
> Also, calls/emails are not prohibited for 'customers' who have a business
> relationship with the caller, something we all have by virtue of our
> membership.
>
> Less clear would be whether lapsed members could be called/emailed without
> violating restrictions. I think a case could be made that a lapsed member
> no longer has any relationship to the organization despite how desperately
> the NSS might want them back.
>
> Regardless of the above (and the inapplicability of do not call/email in
> this instance) it doesn't mean the NSS can do anything it wants with the
> private information gleaned from our member status.
>
> As events continue to repeatedly demonstrate, not only is direct hacking
> of PII databases a growing problem, but also misuse of data released to
> outside entities. You would think they'd notice the problems Facebook is in
> with poor handling of PII (for which FB also had assurances of integrity
> control...that didn't work out so well for them).
>
> The NSS has assured everyone the data is secure, but there's no way to
> ensure that.
>
> I wonder if the NSS can afford (or even has contemplated the issue/risk)
> to buy everyone identity theft protection if the data escapes the controls?
> I wonder if the contractor agreement included a requirement they would bear
> that expense in a data breach. If such an event is on the NSS, that would
> cost vastly more money and members than anything they ever could gain from
> this exercise.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/19/2018 15:36, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
>
> I agree, this was not handled very well at all.  Since we did not agree to
> this, how does this fall under the Do-Not-Call registry, from the FCC's
> perspective?
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 4:04 PM Stephen Fleming 
> wrote:
>
>> It is a marketing thing authorized by the NSS.
>>
>> The NSS says it is costing the organization no money and the contractor
>> funds the effort from sales of the rather pricey merchandise.
>>
>> However, the NSS will get a cut of proceeds: "This is NOT a significant
>> fund raiser for NSS, thought [sic] we do get a small commission on sales."
>>
>> The percentage of return is not stated, and the postcard is disingenuous
>> in not revealing this financial arrangement. You have to search the NSS
>> website to find that tidbit.
>>
>> Regardless, I won't be calling or participating; the NSS knows how to
>> contact me and they already have everything they need to know.
>>
>> Allen's listing of the questions asked goes way beyond basic caver info
>> and seeks information the NSS has no business collecting.
>>
>> I put this thing in the same category as telemarketers. Unwelcome and not
>> tolerated.
>>
>> I did not opt-in for the NSS to release my contact information, even to a
>> contractor, for such a use. The fact that I can decide not to participate
>> pales beside the NSS misusing my personal data.
>>
>> Stephen
>> 13727 RL FE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/19/2018 14:25, Steve Peerman wrote:
>>
>> Allen,
>> It’s not a scam, but you are under no obligation to buy the product that
>> they are making.  It is supposed to be an NSS directory of all NSS members
>> past and present.  I submitted my information, but I didn’t buy the book.
>> It seems rather pricey to me.
>>
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2018, at 2:22 PM, Allen  wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>> Just received a postcard from some publishing company about the NSS
>> members manual.  Anyone else receive one? Its a yellow postcard with the
>> NSS logo on it. It has a title of "Verification of caver data" in all caps,
>>  and a Po Box in Dallas Tx.
>>
>> I called the number on the card and the phone operator started asking
>> some odd questions about place of employment, phone numbers, email, marital
>> status, name of spouse, name of kids, grotto affiliation.  Then at the end
>> they want you to send them a color picture of yourself, a bill would then
>> be sent out for two payments of $50 for the hard bound book.  Or because I
>> am a member, would bundle a sweatshirt, and book bag, and a digital copy,
>> for two payments of $75...  I didn't provide much info, but started
>> questioning it by the end.
>>
>> Anyone know anything about this?  Is it a scam?   

[Texascavers] I'm gone

[Michael Gibbons]

I'll be deleting this forum but not until after I've had my final say.
1. I have rarely read cave related information on this forum.
2. I'm the only one I have seen be attacked for responding to a post with
perfectly viable information and no attitude.
3. Once again I get accused of picking a fight.  Once again you people
couldn't tell the difference between cow plops and cat shit, nor are any of
you interested in fair play.
4. The whole bunch of you misdirect your hate and anger based and half
truths at best.

Fact is i could care less what any of you think and am happy to part
company with a bunch of hypocrites.
Be careful who's lies you believe as liars will who your surrounded with
when you need a defense.
Every derogetory comment I have ever made to anyone in the caving community
has been in rebut. I will always defend myself and I will never held to
people who think they can bully me or push me around.  Several of you have
positions of responsibility in caving organizations. You should be very
careful that your offical actions don't reflect your personal decisions to
single someone out.
That would be a crime called discrimination. As big a crime as religious
persecution.
For the record I have now suffered both of these crimes against me from
members of your "oh so tolerant" band of dingbats.
Thank God the band of dingbats don't get under the radar of most of the
caving community,  just the easily lead.
Tootles
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Re: [Texascavers] Related to nature

[Michael Gibbons]

Nancy you are a breath of fresh air. I enjoy David's cockeyed view of the
world too.
Just between you and me, sometimes his stories make me wonder how he made
this long without falling off the planet. Ha.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 5:08 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:

> and yet nobody posts anything about caving.  Charlie’s paintings are
> really happy making for me.  and David always presents a world I had no
> idea existed.  I really do not understand this ongoing angst about whats
> posted here.
> Nancy
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Related to nature

[Michael Gibbons]

You know Linda, your disdain for me is evident. That's fine. However, when
when dies or donations as well as volunteering are needed in this
community, I'm one of the first and frequent participants.
That is accepted with open arms.
We are a melting pot community of mostly misfits. It stands to reason that
our members, mostly having endured the actions of those who seem themselves
stronger, smarter, faster or simply better than others, would have an
enhanced tolerance, compassion or even empathy for other minded
individuals. After all many misfits rise to wonderful circumstance due
partly to their ability to accept things that differ from their view.
I am a rightwing, warmongering, Christian, survivalist surrounded largely
by a liberal population in this community.
Their are only a handful of folks that find it necessary to gang up on
someone like me and allow a debate to escalate to the standard of an
argument.
You would have never considered posting a comment, save one of agreement,
regarding Charles post had I not posted my rebuttal. When you chastened me,
as an after thought you included the other two parties.
If you don't like me, that's fine, I don't hang my hat on your opinion. But
looking for ways to attempt to belittle me is petty.
I've been monitoring the posts since last I was told to stick to caving
related posts or there would be monitors to see to it.
It seems that this rule only applies to a few of us, as I have refrained
from any posts and have seen no change in the activity of non cave related
conversations. Until I once again post something contrary to some peoples
beliefs.
It might surprise you how many people in the caving community agree with
many of my observations and view points and most at least have the decency
to hear me out and I reciprocate.
When person's lay and wait to jump on any opportunity to lay in to someone,
on my estimation that person has beyond the scope of common consideration
and has become a bully. If you stand firm to the bully, his buddies come to
aid, if you stand firm to them, you might get persecuted in that group.
But if their money is God's enough to accept and their time volunteering is
good enough to accept then by God you should be adult enough treat them
with respect and at the very least keep your comments in the peanut
gallery, like every mother has instructed their children to do.
I have never had a desire to be where I'm unwanted and I assure you if I
wasn't wanted among cavers, I would be gone. So maybe the problem doesn't
lie with me.
This is a caving related post as I'm sure all other rightwing,
warmongering, Christian, survivalist among us feel the same way and just
didn't want rock the bigot boat.
Now it's out in the open, so I propose we start concentrating on our
commonality.
For instance I've noticed a large percentage of my liberal caving friends
are gun toting, independents with some Republican tendencies.
Thank you all for your ear.
Peace

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 1:07 PM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK. Whatever.
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:58 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I didn't get angry at anything Linda. This is how it starts every time
>> and then you folks blame me.
>> This is my forum as much as it is yours.
>> All I did is post a view point I'm aligned with.
>> If that effects your sensibilities then perhaps you need to re evaluate
>> your social skills.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:47 AM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MJ, why do you do this. You just get angry when people disagree with
>>> you.
>>> And especially, why do this here? This is a caving forum.
>>> Same to Charlie and David.
>>> caving forum.
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog.
>>>> Home <http://friendsofscience.org/> | Site Map
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=12> | About Us
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> | News
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1893> | Contact
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> | Donate
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160> | Search
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=387>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Friends of Science]
>>>>
>>>> The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck
>>>> as a scientist.
>>>>
>>>> Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor
>>>>
>>>>- Home <https://friendsofscience.org/>

Re: [Texascavers] Related to nature

[Michael Gibbons]

Seems like you are correct Charles

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 12:14 PM Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike I would like to continue this but evidently not on the caver site.
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I didn't get angry at anything Linda. This is how it starts every time
>> and then you folks blame me.
>> This is my forum as much as it is yours.
>> All I did is post a view point I'm aligned with.
>> If that effects your sensibilities then perhaps you need to re evaluate
>> your social skills.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:47 AM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MJ, why do you do this. You just get angry when people disagree with
>>> you.
>>> And especially, why do this here? This is a caving forum.
>>> Same to Charlie and David.
>>> caving forum.
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog.
>>>> Home <http://friendsofscience.org/> | Site Map
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=12> | About Us
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> | News
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1893> | Contact
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> | Donate
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160> | Search
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=387>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Friends of Science]
>>>>
>>>> The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck
>>>> as a scientist.
>>>>
>>>> Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor
>>>>
>>>>- Home <https://friendsofscience.org/>
>>>>- About Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1>
>>>>- News And Events <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2324>
>>>>- Our Most Recent Articles
>>>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1899>
>>>>- Membership & Donation
>>>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160>
>>>>- Climate Science <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=194>
>>>>- Policies, Economics & Ethics
>>>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2327>
>>>>- Video / Audio <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2>
>>>>- Friends Of Science Blog <http://blog.friendsofscience.org/>
>>>>- ClimateChange101 <http://www.climatechange101.ca/>
>>>>- Friends Of Science YouTube
>>>><https://www.youtube.com/user/FriendsofScience>
>>>>- Scientific References
>>>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=8>
>>>>- Website Links <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=173>
>>>>- Contact Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144>
>>>>
>>>>  RSS <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=768>
>>>> Global Temperatures[image: Global Troposphere Temperatures Average]
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg>Click
>>>> Here For Full Size []]
>>>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/107223614051282826396>
>>>> PROVIDING INSIGHT
>>>> INTO CLIMATE CHANGE
>>>> MYTHS / FACTS
>>>>
>>>> COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
>>>>
>>>> *MYTH 1:  Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented
>>>> rate.*
>>>>
>>>> FACT:  The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley
>>>> Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University
>>>> of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941,
>>>> cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate
>>>> from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941.
>>>> Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling from 2002
>>>> through mid 2015, then this warming pause ended with a large El Nino event
>>>> starting late 2015. Th

Re: [Texascavers] Related to nature

[Michael Gibbons]

I didn't get angry at anything Linda. This is how it starts every time  and
then you folks blame me.
This is my forum as much as it is yours.
All I did is post a view point I'm aligned with.
If that effects your sensibilities then perhaps you need to re evaluate
your social skills.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:47 AM Linda Palit <linda.k.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> MJ, why do you do this. You just get angry when people disagree with you.
> And especially, why do this here? This is a caving forum.
> Same to Charlie and David.
> caving forum.
>
> Linda
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog.
>> Home <http://friendsofscience.org/> | Site Map
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=12> | About Us
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1> | News
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1893> | Contact
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144> | Donate
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160> | Search
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=387>
>>
>> [image: Friends of Science]
>>
>> The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck
>> as a scientist.
>>
>> Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor
>>
>>- Home <https://friendsofscience.org/>
>>- About Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1>
>>- News And Events <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2324>
>>- Our Most Recent Articles
>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=1899>
>>- Membership & Donation
>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=160>
>>- Climate Science <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=194>
>>- Policies, Economics & Ethics
>><https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2327>
>>- Video / Audio <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=2>
>>- Friends Of Science Blog <http://blog.friendsofscience.org/>
>>- ClimateChange101 <http://www.climatechange101.ca/>
>>- Friends Of Science YouTube
>><https://www.youtube.com/user/FriendsofScience>
>>- Scientific References <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=8>
>>- Website Links <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=173>
>>- Contact Us <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=144>
>>
>>  RSS <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=768>
>> Global Temperatures[image: Global Troposphere Temperatures Average]
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg>Click
>> Here For Full Size []]
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/GlobalTroposphereTemperaturesAverage.jpg>
>> <https://plus.google.com/107223614051282826396>
>> PROVIDING INSIGHT
>> INTO CLIMATE CHANGE
>> MYTHS / FACTS
>>
>> COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
>>
>> *MYTH 1:  Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.*
>>
>> FACT:  The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley
>> Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University
>> of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941,
>> cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate
>> from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941.
>> Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling from 2002
>> through mid 2015, then this warming pause ended with a large El Nino event
>> starting late 2015. The average of two analysis of satellite data gives a
>> trend from 1979 to Nov. 2017 of 0.13 ºC/decade, which is less than half of
>> the corresponding trend of 0.27 ºC/decade of the climate models. The mild
>> warming of about 0.7 ºC over the 20th century is well within the natural
>> variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network
>> suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are
>> preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat
>> islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural
>> areas ("land use effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting
>> the surface temperature record for the effects of urban development would
>> reduce the reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half. See *here
>> <https://friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=711#UHI>*.
>>
>> There 

Re: [Texascavers] Related to nature

[Michael Gibbons]

Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. Just a bit of fog.
Home  | Site Map
 | About Us
 | News
 | Contact
 | Donate
 | Search


[image: Friends of Science]

The minute you begin to believe your own hypothesis, you're a dead duck as
a scientist.

Frank Beales - former U. of Toronto Professor

   - Home 
   - About Us 
   - News And Events 
   - Our Most Recent Articles
   
   - Membership & Donation 
   - Climate Science 
   - Policies, Economics & Ethics
   
   - Video / Audio 
   - Friends Of Science Blog 
   - ClimateChange101 
   - Friends Of Science YouTube
   
   - Scientific References 
   - Website Links 
   - Contact Us 

 RSS 
Global Temperatures[image: Global Troposphere Temperatures Average]
Click
Here For Full Size []]


PROVIDING INSIGHT
INTO CLIMATE CHANGE
MYTHS / FACTS

COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING

*MYTH 1:  Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.*

FACT:  The HadCRUT4 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley
Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University
of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941,
cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate
from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941.
Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling from 2002
through mid 2015, then this warming pause ended with a large El Nino event
starting late 2015. The average of two analysis of satellite data gives a
trend from 1979 to Nov. 2017 of 0.13 ºC/decade, which is less than half of
the corresponding trend of 0.27 ºC/decade of the climate models. The mild
warming of about 0.7 ºC over the 20th century is well within the natural
variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network
suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are
preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat
islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural
areas ("land use effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting
the surface temperature record for the effects of urban development would
reduce the reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half. See *here
*.

There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.



*MYTH 2:  The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has experienced a
steady, very gradual temperature decrease for 1000 years, then recently
began a sudden increase.*

FACT:  Significant changes in climate have continually occurred throughout
geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from around 1000
to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was followed by a period
known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the 17th Century the "average
global temperature" has been rising at the low steady rate mentioned above;
although from 1940 – 1970 temperatures actually dropped, leading to a
Global Cooling scare.

The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's
Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings, and
has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable as well.
It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that. See *here
* for more information.



*MYTH 3:  Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100
years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus causing most of the earth's
warming of the last 100 years.*

FACT:  Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human
and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the
beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere
has increased by about 120 part per million 

Re: [Texascavers] speleo-illnesses

[Michael Gibbons]

I would consult Dr. Demento, he might amputate around the third vertebrate.
I'm told that procedure severes the symptoms.
He discourages counseling, says that only hides the problem,  like a head
in your bowling bag.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 5:25 PM David  wrote:

> I can not distinguish these symptoms from the same identical reactions
> from my marital-illness.
>
> I wonder if I can get a gov't grant to explore possible common
> chemical-changes in the bloodstream ??
>
> However, my symptoms have been persistent steadily 24/7 since I uttered
> that fatal phrase, "I Do, l" seventeen years, ( or was it eighteen ), but
> the symptoms were semi-present before the engagement ??
>
> [ Sidenote: I met someone once happily married for 20 plus years with no
> apparent symptoms.  So their must be an immunity in the DNA somewhere. ]
>
>
> To add to the irony of all this,
>
> I am about to eat a very elegant dinner at a 5-star restaurant on a
> riverfront-patio while listening to relaxing latino-jazz music and watching
> the sunset over the river ( Oyster Creek in Sugarland ) with my wife and
> Cavepearl [ charging this to my credit card in hopes of finding work next
> month.  Really smart move, I will regret ]
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f0lcunmyrhc0owy/Cavepearl-Ekis.jpg?dl=0
>
> David Locklear
>
> P.S.
>
> I am now fantisizing / brainstorming about a road-trip to Carlsbad in 4 or
> 5 days.
>
> ___
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Relapsing Fever in Austin-Area Caves

[Michael Gibbons]

So if ones symptoms are more like a flashback then a relapse, is that the
same tick or one whose genesis is closer to pychdeliousorinthodoros*?*

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 4:24 PM Diana Tomchick <
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote:

> Avoid Relapsing Fever if you can. Make sure that your belly is not exposed
> if your t-shirt rides up in a crawlway, like mine did. Do a tick check with
> your buddies, but the ticks don't have to attach very long to give you
> the infection.
>
>
> That may be true for *Ornithodoros* ticks and TBRF, but it takes many
> hours (24-48) after the start of the blood meal for the *Borrelia
> burgdorferi* to multiply in the gut of the *Ixodes* tick and prepare to
> disseminate through the tick’s salivary glands and be passed on to the
> mammalian host.*
>
> So you have a bit more time in which to do a tick check in that case.
>
> Diana
>
> *These are the things one learns from working with an internationally
> known expert on *B. burgdorferi.*
>
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>
>
>
> --
>
> UT Southwestern
>
> Medical Center
>
> The future of medicine, today.
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Michael Gibbons]

It would be nice to see no one getting criticized for a change.
I will not post anymore uncave related material.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:52 AM Sheryl Rieck <sheryl.ri...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> To your point, this forum is for like-minded individuals to discuss
> caving. It is not an open form for political, religious or any other
> discussions that reach far outside caving. I don’t suppose the moderator
> can step in and stop off topic posts such as these where the caving
> community is being subjected to criticism because they wish to discuss
> caving on a caving forum?
>
> Sheryl Rieck
> sheryl.ri...@gmail.com
>
> "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just
> might find you get what you need" Rolling Stones
>
> On Apr 2, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> David,
> Your a gluten for punishment.
> You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
> I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
> The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be
> defined thusly.
> An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to
> be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name
> calling when out of intelligent commentary.
> The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
> calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
> length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
> under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
> deemed important by the holier than thou.
> It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
> minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
> viewpoints with value.
> At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
> heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
> enemies is a single friend".
> I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
> others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
> we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
> of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
> deal with.
> Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
> taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
> idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
> eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
> those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
> a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
> folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
> Carry on McDuff.
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From David Locklear
>>
>> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map
>> of the cave in the story.
>>
>>
>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>>
>> But I am not saying more.
>>
>> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
>> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
>> elevator stories )
>>
>>
>> Last week,
>>
>> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
>> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
>> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>>
>> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>>
>> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
>> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>>
>> Anyways,
>>
>> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made
>> a sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have
>> looked like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which
>> more closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the
>> Shroud story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many
>> people have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it
>> it were not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud,
>> wouldn't you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-arc

Re: [Texascavers] For the record

[Michael Gibbons]

David,
Your a gluten for punishment.
You keep on posting whatever you feel you need to on this site.
I expect you have as much right as the next caver to be heard.
The CG refer to me as a troll. I submit to you a troll then must be defined
thusly.
An opposing or different view point substantiated with evidence proving to
be as/or more valid than that of the haters. Who in return resort to name
calling when out of intelligent commentary.
The troll (or intelligent adversary) has no problem resorting to name
calling and sometimes resorts to pre-emptive strikes. This cuts down on the
length of the discussion and allows said troll to retire to his slumber
under the email bridge awaiting the next attack on superfluous drivel
deemed important by the holier than thou.
It has become a badge of honor to confound said holies and befuddle their
minds. If only they would open them a little they might find some
viewpoints with value.
At any rate David they don't care for either one of us very much. Take
heart in this quote from a book I read as a child"The cure for 50
enemies is a single friend".
I'm glad to see that you don't measure yourself by the acceptance of
others. Nor do I. After all it is only a different perspective from which
we view this quagmire we call society and I value knowing the point of view
of those that think differently than I. It is important to know who you
deal with.
Funny thing, I don't have much trouble getting along with those who have
taken a moment to get to know me. I dare say the same goes with your
idiosyncrasies and folks who take the time to see through those batcrazy
eyes of yours. Sometimes your observations border on brilliance, but to
those who discount you as simply annoying, it is a loss they suffer. I find
a sensitive, caring somewhat confused man who reaches out for like minded
folks on a medium intended.for that specific purpose.
Carry on McDuff.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 11:37 PM David  wrote:

> From David Locklear
>
> There is an interesting cave story in the news.   The link below is a map
> of the cave in the story.
>
>
> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/central-london-caves-04.jpg
>
> But I am not saying more.
>
> Back before I officially retired, I was advised by the CG ( Cavetex
> Gestapos ) to stop posting stuff that anybody can Google ( like Carlsbad
> elevator stories )
>
>
> Last week,
>
> having some spare time due to yet another unexpected work furlough, I
> raked diligently through the haystack of the internet looking for a needle
> - some story that would spark some speleo-thought.
>
> I found absolutely nothing whatsoever that was noteworthy.
>
> And that is when I stumbled on to the story of The Shroud.  I made a
> faithful effort to keep it as cave related as possible.
>
> Anyways,
>
> National Geographic has already proven the Shroud is a hoax.   They made a
> sculpture of what the guy in the Shroud most likely looked would have
> looked like and it wasn't even close to the image in the Shroud ( which
> more closely resembles Professor Dumbledore ).   It is not my fault the
> Shroud story coincides with other stuff.  I was surprised to learn how many
> people have never heard of the Shroud or what its significance would be it
> it were not a hoax.   I mean, if you walked into a cave and found a shroud,
> wouldn't you take it home and out it in a box for safekeeping ?
>
>
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Michael Gibbons]

Travis I suggest you read the whole thread if you think for a minute I was
making light of Christianity.
Quite the contrary, I am a believer and a minister. I just don't think that
David meant anyone any distress. I think he made a parody of the subject in
part to see what kind of reaction the community at large would have.
As for the appropriateness of discussing it on this forum, I say given the
time of year it was never more appropriate. If some feel it is burdensome
for them to be exposed then I would urge them to simply delete the message.
It's not like anyone is trying to turn the forum into something it is not.
That's what I meant by lighten up. For those who were offended by David's
little story I would ask them when wasthe last time they displayed less
couth then someone else thought appropriate. Ironic the subject is
persecution and the reaction is persecution.
That's my last word on the matter. God bless our community and watch over
each of us in the caves.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:03 PM <tra...@oztotl.com> wrote:

> It is a free country yes, true.  This caving forum never ceases to amaze
> me though.  I don’t understand why it seems so fun to make fun of other
> people’s beliefs on this -caving- forum.  To those who don’t believe, these
> sort of gests can be brushed off as mentioned below ‘lighten up’.  But to
> those who do, it is a deep seeded offense that can’t be brushed off.  The
> people on this email thread are you fellow cavers and friends.  I guess it
> is ok to offend and make fun of your friends?
>
>
>
> I know, I know. Lighten up its just a joke right?  I know that there are
> several cavers who agree that this is not a joking matter who just choose
> not to get in a flame war over email.  I have no intentions on getting in
> one either.  I just had to ask, one more time, again, for the basics
> elements of respect for your peers..
>
>
>
> Anyways, this has been a trend for years and frankly, its something I
> don’t need filling my inbox and causing strife on Good Friday.  I’m out
> y’all, peace…
>
>
>
> Travis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> *On Behalf Of 
> *Michael
> Gibbons
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history
>
>
>
> It ain't religion boss. Haven't been to church in 40 plus years. Its a way
> of life.
>
> Sorry it makes you uncomfortable but it is no reason to chastise David.
>
> For the record it's a free country.
>
> I like David's weird ass outlooks. Face it we're all a half a bubble left
> of plumb. Lighten up a little did the rabbit crap in your Easter egg.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 9:24 PM JAMES JASEK <caver...@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>
> CaveTex is a cave related site not a place to discuss religion of politics
>
> JJ
>
> > On Mar 30, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Too set the record straight,  Easter is a pagan event known as Eshtar.
> Celebration of fertility and all things new that the Spring brings. It was
> an orgy of decadence and debauchery.
> > Many Christian events took the dates of pagan celebrations.
> > It is Palm Sunday to the Christian which begins the celebration of the
> King of man. Passover for His children who have His mark. The deceiver can
> not harm those who believe upon Him. This speaks of the second death. The
> death of the soul. Those who believe upon Me shall have everlasting life.
> This is the promise and the power of Yeshua. He did not cheat death as many
> think . The death of this body is of no concern, we who hold the Savior in
> our heart and mind merely vacate this clay pot and return to our spiritual
> being as did Christ.
> > To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
> > He so loved His children that He gave His only begotten Son.
> > The Passion.
> > That is the meaning of this season.
> > David, I'm kind of a different preacher. If that rendition of yours is a
> stepping off point (as I interpreted) I will work with that.
> > What I gleaned from your tale was a veiled query into the meaning of the
> Word.
> > It's ok to believe dude, it's ok to tell the story how you understand it.
> > It is in bad taste to make a parody of it but it ain't the unpardonable
> sin. It ain't gonna get you gold trim on your linen gown but it ain't gonna
> keep out of the here after either.
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2018 7:18 PM, "Nancy Weaver" <nan...@prismnet.com> wrote:
> > pretty amusing.  Nancy
> >
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list |

Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Michael Gibbons]

It ain't religion boss. Haven't been to church in 40 plus years. Its a way
of life.
Sorry it makes you uncomfortable but it is no reason to chastise David.
For the record it's a free country.
I like David's weird ass outlooks. Face it we're all a half a bubble left
of plumb. Lighten up a little did the rabbit crap in your Easter egg.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 9:24 PM JAMES JASEK <caver...@hot.rr.com> wrote:

> CaveTex is a cave related site not a place to discuss religion of politics
>
> JJ
>
> > On Mar 30, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Too set the record straight,  Easter is a pagan event known as Eshtar.
> Celebration of fertility and all things new that the Spring brings. It was
> an orgy of decadence and debauchery.
> > Many Christian events took the dates of pagan celebrations.
> > It is Palm Sunday to the Christian which begins the celebration of the
> King of man. Passover for His children who have His mark. The deceiver can
> not harm those who believe upon Him. This speaks of the second death. The
> death of the soul. Those who believe upon Me shall have everlasting life.
> This is the promise and the power of Yeshua. He did not cheat death as many
> think . The death of this body is of no concern, we who hold the Savior in
> our heart and mind merely vacate this clay pot and return to our spiritual
> being as did Christ.
> > To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
> > He so loved His children that He gave His only begotten Son.
> > The Passion.
> > That is the meaning of this season.
> > David, I'm kind of a different preacher. If that rendition of yours is a
> stepping off point (as I interpreted) I will work with that.
> > What I gleaned from your tale was a veiled query into the meaning of the
> Word.
> > It's ok to believe dude, it's ok to tell the story how you understand it.
> > It is in bad taste to make a parody of it but it ain't the unpardonable
> sin. It ain't gonna get you gold trim on your linen gown but it ain't gonna
> keep out of the here after either.
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2018 7:18 PM, "Nancy Weaver" <nan...@prismnet.com> wrote:
> > pretty amusing.  Nancy
> >
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> >
> > ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] my last post

[Michael Gibbons]

Not pretty beautiful. Fucking beautiful.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 9:24 PM David  wrote:

> Charles,
>
> there was no reason to drag religion into my story about The Shroud of
> Turin having been in a cave.  And there was no reason to call me one of
> those atheist.
>
> I doubt that I am an atheist.  I am just really weird.  I have seen things
> - unexplainable things.  I have had 8 close calls with death - 4 in a
> cave.  I have already purchased my plot and superstitiously sense the
> banshees are closely following me - sometime very closely like buzzards,
> especially when I smell my caver friends smoking strange smelling tiny
> cigarettes or that big glass tube thing.
>
> Sometimes, maybe right now, I feel I might even be like actor Bruce Willis
> in "The Sixth Sense" - not knowing that I am really just an apparition,  or
> worse, that all of us are just apparitions tied into The Matrix.
>
> I lean towards Ganesha, as his story is the most logical of all the
> hybrid-human-god stories, except that I seriously doubt he was a real
> pachyderm.
>
> I have prayed to God, Allah and Buddha that they all send my soul to
> whereever they sent my hell-raising Grandpa, but to let me go caving to the
> caves on my Bucket List first.
>
> David Locklear
>
> P.S.  I come from a Puritan-like family - all fanactical Protestants -
> mostly Baptist and Methodist, and wife being of the Virgin of Guadalupe
> Cult, and an ex-girlfriend that was Mormon ( she said that she would not do
> me unless I went to the tabernacle first, and so, after nearly 4 years of
> divine f*rnification, that one hour of suffering at the tabernacle
> enlightened me )
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
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Re: [Texascavers] my last post

[Michael Gibbons]

That was beautiful.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 9:24 PM David  wrote:

> Charles,
>
> there was no reason to drag religion into my story about The Shroud of
> Turin having been in a cave.  And there was no reason to call me one of
> those atheist.
>
> I doubt that I am an atheist.  I am just really weird.  I have seen things
> - unexplainable things.  I have had 8 close calls with death - 4 in a
> cave.  I have already purchased my plot and superstitiously sense the
> banshees are closely following me - sometime very closely like buzzards,
> especially when I smell my caver friends smoking strange smelling tiny
> cigarettes or that big glass tube thing.
>
> Sometimes, maybe right now, I feel I might even be like actor Bruce Willis
> in "The Sixth Sense" - not knowing that I am really just an apparition,  or
> worse, that all of us are just apparitions tied into The Matrix.
>
> I lean towards Ganesha, as his story is the most logical of all the
> hybrid-human-god stories, except that I seriously doubt he was a real
> pachyderm.
>
> I have prayed to God, Allah and Buddha that they all send my soul to
> whereever they sent my hell-raising Grandpa, but to let me go caving to the
> caves on my Bucket List first.
>
> David Locklear
>
> P.S.  I come from a Puritan-like family - all fanactical Protestants -
> mostly Baptist and Methodist, and wife being of the Virgin of Guadalupe
> Cult, and an ex-girlfriend that was Mormon ( she said that she would not do
> me unless I went to the tabernacle first, and so, after nearly 4 years of
> divine f*rnification, that one hour of suffering at the tabernacle
> enlightened me )
> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Michael Gibbons]

Too set the record straight,  Easter is a pagan event known as Eshtar.
Celebration of fertility and all things new that the Spring brings. It was
an orgy of decadence and debauchery.
Many Christian events took the dates of pagan celebrations.
It is Palm Sunday to the Christian which begins the celebration of the King
of man. Passover for His children who have His mark. The deceiver can not
harm those who believe upon Him. This speaks of the second death. The death
of the soul. Those who believe upon Me shall have everlasting life. This is
the promise and the power of Yeshua. He did not cheat death as many think .
The death of this body is of no concern, we who hold the Savior in our
heart and mind merely vacate this clay pot and return to our spiritual
being as did Christ.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
He so loved His children that He gave His only begotten Son.
The Passion.
That is the meaning of this season.
David, I'm kind of a different preacher. If that rendition of yours is a
stepping off point (as I interpreted) I will work with that.
What I gleaned from your tale was a veiled query into the meaning of the
Word.
It's ok to believe dude, it's ok to tell the story how you understand it.
It is in bad taste to make a parody of it but it ain't the unpardonable
sin. It ain't gonna get you gold trim on your linen gown but it ain't gonna
keep out of the here after either.

On Mar 30, 2018 7:18 PM, "Nancy Weaver"  wrote:

pretty amusing.  Nancy

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Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Michael Gibbons]

Yes you did.
You left out that the alleged dead guy predicted His undeadness and Joseph
(as instructed) with help, moved the stone door (too heavy for one undead
guy to move) and found the shroud. There were plenty of witnesses to the
closing and opening of the tomb.
Mary and her entourage had already drank plenty of coffee as they too knew
that it was time to sober up from the wake and check out His undeadnesses
empty chamber and get ready to be interrogated and then tear add home.
What makes people think that a people with only 13 letters in their
alphabet can perpetuate such a fraud as the life of Christ.
These people walked everywhere they went so need didn't travel very fast.
No way they could have faked Jesus. And why would they? What did they get
out of it. Lets see, whipped, imprisoned,  ostrisized, ridiculed, spat
upon. Lots to want to raise this dude up for.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:50 PM David  wrote:

> Just for fun - please enjoy and don't get your knickers in a wad
>
>
> On this day, ( plus or minus a few weeks ) about 1,983 years ago ( plus or
> minus 200 years )
>
> An alleged man allegedly named Joseph of Arimathea, went to an alleged
> shopkeeper and allegedly purchased
>
> "The Shroud of Turin."
>
> He allegedly wrapped a dead guy up that he found in the The Shroud of
> Turin and allegedly placed him in a tiny cave.   ( Allegedly, this tiny
> cave was just a carved out hole in the rock that Joseph of Arimathea had
> allegedly made for his own corpse, as he allegedly sensed the banshees were
> coming for him soon.
>
> Then Joseph allegedly disappeared for allegedly 60 hours ( presumably to
> partake in a ritual, possibly related to Passover or spring harvest related
> to barley ( a.k.a. beer  ),
>
> and then Joseph of Arimathea allegedly returned to the alleged cave for
> some unknown reason and then allegedly found the Shroud of Turin empty with
> an alleged large blood stain on it exactly matching a photo-copy the
> alleged dude that he thought he had wrapped in it.
>
> Then after allegedly stashing away all his fresh barley juice in another
> secret hole, he then allegedly ran 10 kilometers back to town to wake up
> the dead man's mom and maybe even the dead man's wife, but they too were
> also suffering the divine headache related to drinking too much barley
> juice.
>
> They all allegedly claimed that never found the dead guy's body, and swore
> a pact to never tell anyone that they all had had way way too much barley
> juice that night.
>
> This all has no relation to the Turing Computer.   That is another holiday.
>
> Did I leave out anything ?
>
> David Locklear
> Speleo-theologist
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Re: [Texascavers] Group Photo for TSA Spring Convention 2018 is here!

[Michael Gibbons]

Growing up is over rated

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 4:22 AM Galen Falgout  wrote:

> Bennett you have done such a great job with the tas photos over the past
> years. I just want to publicly announce that. And also when I grow up I
> hope to be half the photograph you are!
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 6:40 PM Bennett Lee 
> wrote:
>
>> Group photo for the TSA Spring Convention 2018 is now available!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1840224496028879.1073741880.11240401264=1=769f0ff2bd
>>
>> http://www.bennettlee.com/Photos/Caving/TSASpringConvention2018.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that I had to use one of the normal shots that we took first because
>> the silly one we took at the end just didn’t work out.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Bennett
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