Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
The newest Alien ID cards that I've seen have some sort of plastic strip that has the numbers visibly embedded within them and could have some sort of hologram business that would hold a large amount of personal information. --Ediger Side note: Technically it's SSAN (Social Security Account Number) but has been popularly shortened to SSN or, more anally, just "social". --GE On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, wrote: > The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used > for ID. > > T. > > > Sep 1, 2009 03:47:23 PM, katy...@yahoo.com wrote: > > Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response > to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I > actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair. > > Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but > just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from > Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries > without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly > without being fingerprinted ). > > I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the > teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where > to look for the fingerprints. > > And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are > many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. > No fingerprinting. > > Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are > those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now > it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, > this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different > view on this country before I came... > > And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of > useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can > be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you > kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I > see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only > thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real > weapon is information. > > Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our > governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). > > I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. > Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe > without being fingerprinted. > > Katy > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks wrote: > > > From: John P Brooks > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > To: "'Cavers Texas'" > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM > > Scan away...I have nothing to > > hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to > > worry about. > > Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many > > countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as > > wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and > > passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that > > they just implemented that technologyand my passport was > > scanned coming back into the US > > And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before > > thatso it is not just the US heading this > > way.. > > And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was > > recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a > > handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just > > like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy > > stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car > > checking people out on the computer. > > And my bank has been using the thumbprint > > authorization for a few years. > > I suspect this is just part of the world now...and > > although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take > > that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and > > subscribe to several e-lists such as this. > > There are bigger problems in the world than > > this. > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Linda Palit > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > To: "'Mixon Bill'" > > , "'Cavers > > Texas'" > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM > > > > > > Microwave disables the strip? > > Or was it the freezer? > > Passports hav
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
The SSN has been around since the 1930s and is not supposed to be used for ID. T.Sep 1, 2009 03:47:23 PM, katy...@yahoo.com wrote: Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair.Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ).I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints.And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting. Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came... And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information. Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted.Katy--- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> From: John P Brooks <jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net>> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother> To: "'Cavers Texas'" <texascavers@texascavers.com>> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM> Scan away...I have nothing to> hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to> worry about. > Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many> countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as> wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and> passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that> they just implemented that technologyand my passport was> scanned coming back into the US> And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before> thatso it is not just the US heading this> way..> And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was> recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a> handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just> like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy> stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car> checking people out on the computer.> And my bank has been using the thumbprint> authorization for a few years.> I suspect this is just part of the world now...and> although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take> that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and> subscribe to several e-lists such as this.> There are bigger problems in the world than> this.> > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit> <lkpa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > > From: Linda Palit <lkpa...@sbcglobal.net>> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother> To: "'Mixon Bill'"> <bmixon...@austin.rr.com>, "'Cavers> Texas'" <texascavers@texascavers.com>> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM> > > Microwave disables the strip? > Or was it the freezer? > Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. > > > > -Original Message-> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM> To: Cavers Texas> Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother> > Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a> thumbprint to get a > Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What> the hell does > a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you> may well ask. > Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate> having > something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who> haven't been > paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current> driver's > license probab
RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
A magnetic strip can be erased by exposure to a strong magnetic field. It is similar to magnetic recording tape, such as that used in audio or video cassette tape recorders, and is also similar to the recording media used in floppy disks. Moving a strong permanent magnet next to it might be sufficient to erase it, but a more effective method probably would be to use an AC powered bulk tape eraser, such as those sold in electronics stores for erasing VHS video tapes. RFID chips work differently. They are integrated circuits designed to act like little radio transmitters that transmit digitally encoded identifying information whenever they receive a certain kind of interrogation signal transmitted by an external RFID scanning device. It is true that a microwave oven is likely to quickly disable an RFID chip (or, for that matter, any other electronic device) that you cook in it, but there is also a hazard that the RFID chip could quickly become very hot while you're cooking it and might melt or burn the product in which it is embedded. You might destroy more than you intend with this method. With either a magnetic strip or an RFID, it is difficult to determine whether or not an attempt to erase or disable the thing has succeeded unless you have access to an appropriate reader or scanning device. Rod -Original Message- >From: Linda Palit >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 1:18 PM >To: 'Mixon Bill' , 'Cavers Texas' > >Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > >Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? >Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. > > > >-Original Message- >From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] >Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM >To: Cavers Texas >Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother > >Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a >Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does >a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. >Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having >something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been >paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's >license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to >erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it >can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably >won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one >I had. > >Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting >soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably >there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new >licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it. > >Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway >pass-- Mixon > >A fearless man cannot be brave. > >You may "reply" to the address this message >came from, but for long-term use, save: >Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > >- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > >- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother : RFID
For RFID, you might not need a Faraday cage - you might just microwave it for a while. Should disable it. (never tried it though). I am not sure that microwaving iPhone is a good idea in that sense :) That's the spirit! Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Brian Riordan wrote: > From: Brian Riordan > Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:03 PM > Foil hat- I hear ya Joe! > I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage > to keep out > Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as > "Big Stepdad") > I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working > title). > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage > > If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call > you, I > believe there are cases comercially available to put your > phone in to > block any signals in or out, but then why carry > phone? Personally, > I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also > sleaves available > for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the > ones in the > new passports). > > As for physically taking data storage devices and searching > them: what > a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll > have no problem > disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. > What a waste of > government resources (surprise!). > > As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers > who "meekly > gave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4 > years of school > to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty > of people > willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you > do? If she > kept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the > bills. > OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to > have her own > place (at the time). It's just like the social > security number: "not > to be used as identification". Try to get credit > without one! > > I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options... > > -B > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, > wrote: > > The cell phone tracking is something I had read about > but never gave a ton > > of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my > first generation iphone > > the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block > area. A little close > > for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using > gps often shows my > > precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by > triangulating my > > location from the cell towers but then goes a step > further using the wifi > > networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using > the built in > > accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am > facing... > > > > I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but > then again I continue to > > use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if > you need privacy don't > > buy any portable electronic device. > > > > Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think > that using cash instead > > of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the > strips in new money can be > > picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet > completely substantiated this > > one yet... > > > > Time to get out my foil hat! > > > > Joe > > > > On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit > wrote: > >> The local grocery is about to require a > fingerprint with check and > >> > >> identification, if you want to use a check. It > has been tested in Austin, > >> > >> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and > children are sometimes > >> > >> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of > crimes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and > fingerprinting is > >> > >> associated with things much different than it once > was. > >> > >> I put this in a different category than invading > my personal laptop or > >> > >> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it > all runs together. > >> > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> > >> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM > >> > >> To: Cavers Texas > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > >> > >> > >> > >> Hm, > >> > >> > >> > >>
Re: [Texascavers] Big Brother
There have been people in the past who were in teaching postions that were offenders. Quinta I have 4 greatgrandchildren from kindergarden to 5th grade. My grandaughter is a teacher and she does not mind in the least. I does make you easy to eleminate if they have fingerprints also.
RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
Well, Brazil is the only country who fingerprints US citizens in response to US requirement to fingerprint everybody (just for you to know). I actually wished that all other countries will do the same... Just not fair. Europe will not take your fingerprints when you come in (not so far but just for a symmetry I hope that they will do that soon - only from Americans, EU persons cross their borders inside the EU numerous countries without even bothering to take their passports with them, and clearly without being fingerprinted ). I do not see how pedophilia is being prevented by fingerprinting the teachers. Most cases include kids who just disappear, so I am not sure where to look for the fingerprints. And frankly, I do not want to give my fingerprints to my bank. There are many online-banks only, so I guess at some point I will opt to those ones. No fingerprinting. Fingerprinting for the drivers license totally shocked us, too. Where are those proud Americans who once were proud of not having any personal ID? Now it is SSN, drivers license, what not - and all is fingerprinted! Frankly, this two-years visit to USA totally opened my eyes. I had really different view on this country before I came... And yeah, I saw the "Life of Others"- the fact that they collect tons of useless info is ridiculous, but the point is that all this useless info can be always turned against you. Then you loose your job, your friends and you kill yourself. Don't forget - I spent my childhood in USSR, and oftentimes I see amazing similarities between USA and USSR. Very sad, isn't it? The only thing is that everybody has a big nice shiny gun... Forgetting that the real weapon is information. Anyways, people, I think that we are giving way too much info to our governments (not only here in US, although here it is really frightening). I will start looking for a nice big cave to hide away from being scanned. Hopefully with a huge underground/under-oceanic tunnel to run away to Europe without being fingerprinted. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, John P Brooks wrote: > From: John P Brooks > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > To: "'Cavers Texas'" > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:48 PM > Scan away...I have nothing to > hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to > worry about. > Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many > countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as > wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and > passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that > they just implemented that technologyand my passport was > scanned coming back into the US > And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before > thatso it is not just the US heading this > way.. > And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was > recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a > handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just > like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy > stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car > checking people out on the computer. > And my bank has been using the thumbprint > authorization for a few years. > I suspect this is just part of the world now...and > although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take > that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and > subscribe to several e-lists such as this. > There are bigger problems in the world than > this. > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit > wrote: > > > From: Linda Palit > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother > To: "'Mixon Bill'" > , "'Cavers > Texas'" > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM > > > Microwave disables the strip? > Or was it the freezer? > Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM > To: Cavers Texas > Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a > thumbprint to get a > Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What > the hell does > a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you > may well ask. > Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate > having > something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who > haven't been > paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current > driver's > license probably won't work, > because I've made a point of trying to > erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not > that it > can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, > I probably > won
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
In addition to property, casualty, life and health, I hold a real estate salesman's license which must be renewed every two years. A prerequisite is 15 hours of mandatory continuing education and they have now added fingerprinting and a background check which I am to have done this afternoon. Word limits suck. Fritz From: Linda Palit [mailto:lkpa...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:25 PM To: 'Texas Cavers' Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal. This view is sure to change as it becomes so common. Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word limits, so enough of this for me. >
RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
Hi Bill, As I understand it (we haven't gone to this in Oregon yet), the thumbprint on your DL is to help prevent identity theft. You can (if you're good enough) put somebody else's picture on the DL, but it's hard to replace the print. I think the one that I resent the most is the little rfid chip that stores like Walmart put on a big percentage of their high-end merchandise to track it. See this link: http://www.greatdreams.com/rfid.htm and if you really want to get paranoid, go to: http://www.spychips.com/ They're probably reading this now. Oh no!!! I hear the jack boots coming!!! Agh-h-h-h-h-h-h... Louise > From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:06:50 -0500 > Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother > > Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a > Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does > a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. > Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having > something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been > paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's > license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to > erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it > can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably > won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one > I had. > > Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting > soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably > there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new > licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it. > > Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway > pass-- Mixon > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >
RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
Scan away...I have nothing to hide.Its all around us...and is probably pointless to worry about. Yes...The new passports are scannable...and many countries that require VISAs are making those scannable as wellOn a recent trip to BrazilMy VISA and passport was scanned in Brazil and was surprised that they just implemented that technologyand my passport was scanned coming back into the US And I was scanned on a trip to Europe before thatso it is not just the US heading this way.. And my drivers liscense was scanned when I was recently stopped for speeding. The county officer had a handheld wireless scanner...and a printer on his belt...just like they use in the Apple storethere was one guy stopping speeders such as me...and one guy in the police car checking people out on the computer. And my bank has been using the thumbprint authorization for a few years. I suspect this is just part of the world now...and although I am concerned about privacy...it is hard to take that very seriously...since I do use facebook...and subscribe to several e-lists such as this. There are bigger problems in the world than this. --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Linda Palit wrote: From: Linda Palit Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother To: "'Mixon Bill'" , "'Cavers Texas'" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:18 PM Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. -Original Message- From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one I had. Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it. Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway pass-- Mixon A fearless man cannot be brave. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I get fingerprinted every time I go across the border and need to go beyond 20 miles inland into the states. No big deal Nico On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Cynthia Lee wrote: > I was finger printed in 1975 when I went to work for UPS as a temp. > > Cindy > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Linda Palit wrote: > >> Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal. >> >> >> This view is sure to change as it becomes so common. >> >> >> >> Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word >> limits, so enough of this for me. >> >> >> >> *From:* Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:23 PM >> *To:* katy...@yahoo.com; Texas Cavers >> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related >> >> >> >> I'm a federal employee. My prints have been on file for years. I do not >> find it humiliating or feel that my privacy has been invaded. Why were you >> so humiliated? Our country has suffered some terrible blows in recent years >> from people disguised as friends. I'm not sure where you're from, but how >> does your country verify the identification of foreign nationals? >> >> Louise >> >> > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:49:50 -0700 >> > From: katy...@yahoo.com >> > To: texascavers@texascavers.com >> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related >> > >> > Hm, >> > >> > Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) >> encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as >> this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. >> > >> > I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my >> friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. >> > >> > For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give >> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went >> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country >> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what >> "privacy" really means! >> > >> > Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these >> teachers. >> > >> > Katy >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: >> > >> > > From: Don Cooper >> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related >> > > To: "Mixon Bill" >> > > Cc: "Cavers Texas" >> > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM >> > > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones >> > > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up >> > > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for >> > > thermonuke devices. >> > > >> > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it >> > > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've >> > > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay >> > > out of my HEAD - FEDS! >> > > >> > > >> > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell >> > > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when >> > > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, >> > > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when >> > > I'm out there committing crimes! >> > > >> > > >> > > -WaV >> > > >> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, >> > > Mixon Bill >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect >> > > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been >> > > outside the United States? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months >> > > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the >> > > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his >> > > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were >> > > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the >> > > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent >> > > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I >> > > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I was finger printed in 1975 when I went to work for UPS as a temp. Cindy On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Linda Palit wrote: > Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal. > > This view is sure to change as it becomes so common. > > > > Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word > limits, so enough of this for me. > > > > *From:* Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:23 PM > *To:* katy...@yahoo.com; Texas Cavers > *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > > > I'm a federal employee. My prints have been on file for years. I do not > find it humiliating or feel that my privacy has been invaded. Why were you > so humiliated? Our country has suffered some terrible blows in recent years > from people disguised as friends. I'm not sure where you're from, but how > does your country verify the identification of foreign nationals? > > Louise > > > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:49:50 -0700 > > From: katy...@yahoo.com > > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > > > Hm, > > > > Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt > our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this > one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. > > > > I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my > friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. > > > > For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give > their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went > silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country > of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what > "privacy" really means! > > > > Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these > teachers. > > > > Katy > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: > > > > > From: Don Cooper > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > > To: "Mixon Bill" > > > Cc: "Cavers Texas" > > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > > > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > > > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > > > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > > > thermonuke devices. > > > > > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > > > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > > > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > > > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > > > > > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > > > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > > > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > > > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > > > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > > > > > > > -WaV > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > > > Mixon Bill > > > wrote: > > > > > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > > > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > > > outside the United States? > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > > > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > > > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > > > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > > > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > > > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > > > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > > > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > > > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > > > inspector would see it.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > > > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > > > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your > > > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, > > > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them > > > suspicious--not r
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I had to do much more that fingerprints when my daughter married a German national in the GAF. Where I was born what I belonged to. Names of my grandparents and much more. I was certainly given the once over in Germany when I went there and learned to take a carry on with one change of clothes. I used the laundry a lot and bought another set or so while I was there to visit my grandchildren who have dual pasports. Quinta
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Traditionally being fingerprinted was associated with being a criminal. This view is sure to change as it becomes so common. Probably this is becoming way off topic, and I am not meeting the word limits, so enough of this for me. From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:23 PM To: katy...@yahoo.com; Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related I'm a federal employee. My prints have been on file for years. I do not find it humiliating or feel that my privacy has been invaded. Why were you so humiliated? Our country has suffered some terrible blows in recent years from people disguised as friends. I'm not sure where you're from, but how does your country verify the identification of foreign nationals? <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/emoticons/cat.gif> Louise > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:49:50 -0700 > From: katy...@yahoo.com > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > Hm, > > Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. > > I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. > > For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! > > Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. > > Katy > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: > > > From: Don Cooper > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > To: "Mixon Bill" > > Cc: "Cavers Texas" > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > > thermonuke devices. > > > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > > > > -WaV > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > > Mixon Bill > > wrote: > > > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > > outside the United States? > > > > > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > > inspector would see it.) > > > > > > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your > > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, > > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them > > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was > > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all > > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about > > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with > > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track > > them in real time. > > > > > > --Mixon > > > > > > > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > > > ---
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I'm a federal employee. My prints have been on file for years. I do not find it humiliating or feel that my privacy has been invaded. Why were you so humiliated? Our country has suffered some terrible blows in recent years from people disguised as friends. I'm not sure where you're from, but how does your country verify the identification of foreign nationals? Louise > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:49:50 -0700 > From: katy...@yahoo.com > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > Hm, > > Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our > fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: > being taken my fingerprints at the US border. > > I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my > friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. > > For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give > their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went > silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country > of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what > "privacy" really means! > > Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. > > Katy > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: > > > From: Don Cooper > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > To: "Mixon Bill" > > Cc: "Cavers Texas" > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > > thermonuke devices. > > > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > > > > -WaV > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > > Mixon Bill > > wrote: > > > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > > outside the United States? > > > > > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > > inspector would see it.) > > > > > > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your > > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, > > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them > > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was > > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all > > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about > > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with > > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track > > them in real time. > > > > > > --Mixon > > > > > > > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > > > > > > > You may "reply" to the address this message > > > > came from, but for long-term use, save: > > > > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > > > > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org > > or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >
RE: [Texascavers] Big Brother
Microwave disables the strip? Or was it the freezer? Passports have them too, at least the new ones do. -Original Message- From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:07 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] Big Brother Nobody has mentioned that we've had to give a thumbprint to get a Texas driver's licence for at least ten years now. What the hell does a thumbprint have to do with a driver's license, you may well ask. Well, my understanding it that it was a federal mandate having something to do with tracking down deadbeat dads who haven't been paying child support. The magnetic strip on my current driver's license probably won't work, because I've made a point of trying to erase it, without any way to tell for sure that I have. Not that it can be read remotely, but if anybody ever wants to scan it, I probably won't be in a very cooperative mood. Nobody ever scanned the last one I had. Of course, with the new driver's licenses we're supposed to be getting soon, there will be a lot more irrelevant stuff on them. Probably there will be some easy trick to disable the RFI chip in the new licenses--something more subtle than drilling a hole through it. Of course, the more paranoid among us will never, ever use a tollway pass-- Mixon A fearless man cannot be brave. You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
As I was just saying to Bill Mixon, we used to get our cars/trucks inspected all the time on our way back to CV from Cd Acuna. And we were about 5 miles inside the border at the time. Mostly they'd just flash their flashlights on the vehicle occupants and ask if we were all U.S. citizens. Of course, that was in a kinder, gentler era. Louise From: lkpa...@sbcglobal.net To: gi...@att.net; texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:21:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Was crossing in Charlie’s bus one time, and they decided to put it through the same line as the semi’s for full x-ray. I went to the agent and said something to the effect – Do you think we would take a bright orange school bus full of cavers and try to smuggle something? Do we really look that stupid? For whatever reason, he moved the bus to the front of the semi line – we had already been there forever. That was one of the few good experiences I have had at the US border. The ugly stories are more frequent, but not as amusing. From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:14 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Herman Miller wrote: Upon returning to the United States the DHS has a huge amount of authority to search anything and everything in your pocession, literally anything they want to look at is open game. Herman is exactly right. ANY and every time you cross a border--ANY border--you essentially and voluntarily surrender any and all personal rights you may otherwise have. They can do anything to you and your stuff that they want and for an inconvenient amount of time--in the name of whatever completely off-the-wall and baseless Homeland Security law that the running-scared Congress may have passed or DHS may have promulgated and using any kind of profiling they adamantly deny. Without rules and regulations they wouldn't have a job. They don't have to make sense or have probable cause; the inspector could just be wanting to get a few jollies at your expense--and it would be perfectly legal. They can detain you. You pretty much have no civil rights and no defenses at that point--consider that a given and be satisfied with it. But the important thing to remember is that you have volunteered to this scrutiny by voluntarily crossing the border. If you don't like that situation don't cross any borders. --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Anyone seen the excellent German film, "The Lives of Others?" It's about the Stasi (Secret Police) in Germany, and how the eavesdropping that occurred in Eastern Germany on friends and neighbors so often destroyed lives. The big take-home message for me was that by and large most of the information collected was terribly mundane and trivial. Reminded me a lot of Twitter, Facebook and even this mailing list. If you wanted to be anonymous and have your privacy, you wouldn't sign up or use those services. I had to laugh when my mother (who lives in the Seattle area, and I only see about once per year) informed me that she didn't use the grocery store savings cards, because "do you know that they collect information on what you buy?" I said, "heck yeah, and I hope that means that they stock more of the things I like in this store, and give me better prices on those goods" because that is what they (allegedly) do with that information. She just stared at me like I was a dupe. Diana On Sep 1, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Katy Roodenko wrote: Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
If you've ever been a government worker, you've probably been fingerprinted. School teachers tend to be employed by a government. Anyway, we have to keep those paedophiles away from the chirren. TSep 1, 2009 10:03:17 AM, riordan.br...@gmail.com wrote: Foil hat- I hear ya Joe!I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep outBig Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as "Big Stepdad")I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working title).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cageIf you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, Ibelieve there are cases comercially available to put your phone in toblock any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally,I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves availablefor blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in thenew passports).As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: whata crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problemdisguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste ofgovernment resources (surprise!).As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who "meeklygave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4 years of schoolto teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of peoplewilling to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If shekept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills.OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her ownplace (at the time). It's just like the social security number: "notto be used as identification". Try to get credit without one!I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options...-BOn Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, <jran...@gmail.com> wrote:> The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton> of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone> the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close> for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my> precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my> location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi> networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in> accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing...>> I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to> use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't> buy any portable electronic device.>> Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead> of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be> picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this> one yet...>> Time to get out my foil hat!>> Joe>> On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit <lkpa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>> The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and>>>> identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin,>>>> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes>>>> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes.>>>>>>>> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is>>>> associated with things much different than it once was.>>>> I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or>>>> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together.>>>>>>>> -Original Message->>>> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com]>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM>>>> To: Cavers Texas>>>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related>>>>>>>> Hm,>>>>>>>> Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt>>>> our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this>>>> one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border.>>>>>>>> I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my>>>> friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.>>>>>>>> For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give>>>> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went>>>> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB>> country>>>> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what>>>> "privacy" really means!>>>>>>>> Reall
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Foil hat- I hear ya Joe! I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep out Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as "Big Stepdad") I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working title). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, I believe there are cases comercially available to put your phone in to block any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally, I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves available for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in the new passports). As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: what a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problem disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste of government resources (surprise!). As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who "meekly gave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4 years of school to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of people willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If she kept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills. OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her own place (at the time). It's just like the social security number: "not to be used as identification". Try to get credit without one! I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options... -B On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton > of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone > the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close > for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my > precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my > location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi > networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in > accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing... > > I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to > use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't > buy any portable electronic device. > > Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead > of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be > picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this > one yet... > > Time to get out my foil hat! > > Joe > > On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit wrote: >> The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and >> >> identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, >> >> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes >> >> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. >> >> >> >> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is >> >> associated with things much different than it once was. >> >> I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or >> >> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> >> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM >> >> To: Cavers Texas >> >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related >> >> >> >> Hm, >> >> >> >> Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt >> >> our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this >> >> one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. >> >> >> >> I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my >> >> friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. >> >> >> >> For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give >> >> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went >> >> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB >> country >> >> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what >> >> "privacy" really means! >> >> >> >> Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these >> >> teachers. >> >> >> >> Katy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> &
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing... I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't buy any portable electronic device. Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this one yet... Time to get out my foil hat! Joe On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit wrote: The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is associated with things much different than it once was. I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. -Original Message- From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > To: "Mixon Bill" bmixon...@austin.rr.com> > Cc: "Cavers Texas" texascavers@texascavers.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > thermonuke devices. > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > -WaV > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com> > wrote: > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > outside the United States? > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > inspector would see it.) > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > use some wimpy encryption facilit
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin, etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes. Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is associated with things much different than it once was. I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together. -Original Message- From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:katy...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: > From: Don Cooper > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > To: "Mixon Bill" > Cc: "Cavers Texas" > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > thermonuke devices. > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > -WaV > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > Mixon Bill > wrote: > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > outside the United States? > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > inspector would see it.) > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track > them in real time. > > > --Mixon > > > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > > > You may "reply" to the address this message > > came from, but for long-term use, save: > > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org > or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > > > ---
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Hm, Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border. I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason. For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really means! Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers. Katy --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper wrote: > From: Don Cooper > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > To: "Mixon Bill" > Cc: "Cavers Texas" > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for > thermonuke devices. > > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay > out of my HEAD - FEDS! > > > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when > I'm out there committing crimes! > > > -WaV > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, > Mixon Bill > wrote: > > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been > outside the United States? > > > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with > the offending image deliberately out where the customs > inspector would see it.) > > > > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track > them in real time. > > > --Mixon > > > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > > > You may "reply" to the address this message > > came from, but for long-term use, save: > > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org > or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > > > > > > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
If you really want to drive them crazy, encrypt a bunch of random number tables and watch them try to decrypt them into something meaningful. ;) -Original Message- >From: Mixon Bill >Sent: Aug 31, 2009 9:47 PM >To: Cavers Texas >Subject: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > >Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or >vehicles applies only to those that have been outside the United States? > >Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some >guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people >learned that there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested >him. However, the files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable >to break the encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent >could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I suspect this >might have been a deliberate test case, with the offending image >deliberately out where the customs inspector would see it.) > >Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of >perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy >encryption facility that comes with your operating system; it is >probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately >do something to make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is >extremely unlikely that they'll ever check.) It would be really nice >if it was easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all >voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about his >privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with their cell >phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real time. >--Mixon > >A fearless man cannot be brave. > >You may "reply" to the address this message >came from, but for long-term use, save: >Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > >- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Was crossing in Charlie's bus one time, and they decided to put it through the same line as the semi's for full x-ray. I went to the agent and said something to the effect - Do you think we would take a bright orange school bus full of cavers and try to smuggle something? Do we really look that stupid? For whatever reason, he moved the bus to the front of the semi line - we had already been there forever. That was one of the few good experiences I have had at the US border. The ugly stories are more frequent, but not as amusing. From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:14 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Herman Miller wrote: Upon returning to the United States the DHS has a huge amount of authority to search anything and everything in your pocession, literally anything they want to look at is open game. Herman is exactly right. ANY and every time you cross a border--ANY border--you essentially and voluntarily surrender any and all personal rights you may otherwise have. They can do anything to you and your stuff that they want and for an inconvenient amount of time--in the name of whatever completely off-the-wall and baseless Homeland Security law that the running-scared Congress may have passed or DHS may have promulgated and using any kind of profiling they adamantly deny. Without rules and regulations they wouldn't have a job. They don't have to make sense or have probable cause; the inspector could just be wanting to get a few jollies at your expense--and it would be perfectly legal. They can detain you. You pretty much have no civil rights and no defenses at that point--consider that a given and be satisfied with it. But the important thing to remember is that you have volunteered to this scrutiny by voluntarily crossing the border. If you don't like that situation don't cross any borders. --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for thermonuke devices. I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay out of my HEAD - FEDS! And as far as tracking my relative position between cell phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when I'm out there committing crimes! -WaV On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Mixon Bill wrote: > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or vehicles > applies only to those that have been outside the United States? > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some guy > came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people learned that > there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested him. However, the > files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the encryption > and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent could not be required to give > up the key to the code. (I suspect this might have been a deliberate test > case, with the offending image deliberately out where the customs inspector > would see it.) > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of > perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy encryption > facility that comes with your operating system; it is probably not > NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately do something to > make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was easy and convenient > to encrypt everything, including all voice communications. But almost nobody > really cares about his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around > with their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real > time. > --Mixon > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I would like to point out that the same rights available to search vehicles and persons coming into the country are available, though arent enforced as heavily, to vehicles and persons leaving the country, I dont have the time to find the specific section in 8 USC dealing with this though a current news article is included below for your perusal. http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/border/116595.php On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Mixon Bill wrote: > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or vehicles > applies only to those that have been outside the United States? > > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some guy > came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people learned that > there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested him. However, the > files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the encryption > and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent could not be required to give > up the key to the code. (I suspect this might have been a deliberate test > case, with the offending image deliberately out where the customs inspector > would see it.) > > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of > perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy encryption > facility that comes with your operating system; it is probably not > NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately do something to > make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was easy and convenient > to encrypt everything, including all voice communications. But almost nobody > really cares about his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around > with their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real > time. > --Mixon > > A fearless man cannot be brave. > > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Herman Miller wrote: > Upon returning to the United States the DHS has a huge amount of authority > to search anything and everything in your pocession, literally anything they > want to look at is open game. Herman is exactly right. ANY and every time you cross a border--ANY border--you essentially and voluntarily surrender any and all personal rights you may otherwise have. They can do anything to you and your stuff that they want and for an inconvenient amount of time--in the name of whatever completely off-the-wall and baseless Homeland Security law that the running-scared Congress may have passed or DHS may have promulgated and using any kind of profiling they adamantly deny. Without rules and regulations they wouldn't have a job. They don't have to make sense or have probable cause; the inspector could just be wanting to get a few jollies at your expense--and it would be perfectly legal. They can detain you. You pretty much have no civil rights and no defenses at that point--consider that a given and be satisfied with it. But the important thing to remember is that you have volunteered to this scrutiny by voluntarily crossing the border. If you don't like that situation don't cross any borders. --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
All this does is clarify and establish written guidelines regarding the search and seizure of electronic gadgets. Previously to this guidance there really wasnt written and even now there are cases moving through the supreme court in deciding what constraints should be placed on electronic devices. Upon returning to the United States the DHS has a huge amount of authority to search anything and everything in your pocession, literally anything they want to look at is open game. Please see http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32399.pdf for an aoutdated but generally correct description of the search authority available to customs officials. Any officer of the customs may at any time go on board of any vessel or vehicle at any place in the United States or within the customs waters or ... at any other authorized place ... and examine the manifest and other documents and papers and examine, inspect, and search the vessel or vehicle and every part thereof and any person, trunk, package, or cargo on board, and to this end may hail and stop such vessel or vehicle, and use all necessary force to compel compliance. I know a lot of people are stirred up and feel that this is a new broadening of search authority but in all reality it is a guidance where there was none before and limits the time that the DHS may keep your things. Herman Miller NSS 55273 On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:05 AM, David wrote: > Is this for real ?? > > > http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090829/tc_pcworld/dhsclarifieslaptopbordercrossingruleswhatyouneedtoknow > > > This is caving related because many Texas cavers cross the border with > gadgets that store > data and photos. > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com > >
RE: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
This is just too weird, practically that very same article appeared in GovExec.com this morning: CBP to continue searches of travelers' laptops By Gautham Nagesh gnag...@govexec.com August 28, 2009 The Homeland Security Department announced on Thursday that it will continue to allow Customs and Border Protection officials to search travelers' laptop computers and other electronic devices without suspicion of wrongdoing. The practice of searching travelers' electronic devices without suspicion has been controversial. In April 2008, a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals judge ruled CBP agents do not need reasonable suspicion to search travelers' laptops, smart phones and other electronic devices. In June 2009, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties held a hearing on the issue, which has been challenged in court 11 times by individuals convicted of having child pornography on their laptops. Homeland Security released two directives on Thursday, indicating the Obama administration will continue the practice of suspicionless searches, much to the dismay of privacy advocates. Group such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union have opposed the practice, saying it is invasive and likely to lead to racial and religious profiling. "Keeping Americans safe in an increasingly digital world depends on our ability to lawfully screen materials entering the United States," said DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano. "The new directives announced today strike the balance between respecting the civil liberties and privacy of all travelers, while ensuring DHS can take the lawful actions necessary to secure our borders." The new directives describe the department's policy on searching travelers' laptops, cell phones and other electronic devices in-depth and set a five-day limit on Customs and Border Protection searches. Immigration and Customs Enforcement special agents are allowed up to 30 days to search an electronic device. The new rules require agents to get a supervisor's approval before confiscating a device and CBP must notify travelers where their device is being kept. But the changes don't go far enough, according to Christopher Calabrese, counsel for the ACLU's Technology and Liberty program. "Essentially, they retain the power to look at any laptop at any time," Calabrese said. "Our reaction is that we still haven't reached the core problems of the searches -- the totally suspicionless search of anyone with a laptop and anything on a laptop." Calabrese said in addition to protecting sensitive information like legal documents or medical records that might be on the devices, his organization is concerned about CBP agents using the policies to profile minorities. The policy is misguided, given that anyone attempting to smuggle data into the United States could easily do so from anywhere in the world via an encrypted e-mail, he added. "There have been a number of reports from advocacy organizations, Muslim advocates, describing people clearly targeted because of religion and race," Calabrese said. "We take it too much for granted in this country sometimes, that when we're talking about security it's OK to do nudge-and-wink racial profiling. But it's not, and it doesn't have security value." Customs and Border Protection searched approximately 1,000 laptops between Oct. 1, 2008, and Aug. 11, 2009, 46 of them in-depth. > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:05:40 -0500 > From: dlocklea...@gmail.com > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related > > Is this for real ?? > > http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090829/tc_pcworld/dhsclarifieslaptopbordercrossingruleswhatyouneedtoknow > > > This is caving related because many Texas cavers cross the border with > gadgets that store > data and photos. > > - > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >
