Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I am happy to post the comment if you prefer not to. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Good night On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:38 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Ttyl. Sleep time On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Nah, I'll reply to the next person who brings it up again. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:31 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I am happy to post the comment if you prefer not to. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Good night On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:38 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Ttyl. Sleep time On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Thats not a way to be diplomatic. I was hoping to close the argument so I could announce that the Spring convention website and fees. I thought to delegate it to you since its your platform but I will bring it up myself, Mark asked me if I would do it. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Nah, I'll reply to the next person who brings it up again. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:31 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I am happy to post the comment if you prefer not to. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Good night On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:38 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Ttyl. Sleep time On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
No problem, Charles. (I didn't say this), but, the Winter meeting may be a good time to bring this up, as most of the chronologically challenged cavers don't make it out to this meeting. (Once again, I didn't say this). 8^) Mark From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Fri 12/11/2009 3:45 PM To: Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG I told you that I was going to bring this up again back after the Spring TSA meeting. Many people feel the same way, they just are afraid to speak up, for fear of the wrath of a few of the older members. I'll continue to speak my mind :) Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Let's not go down that road again, Charles. The TC is coming being issued within our budget and we still have funds left over for additional activities. My point in my rant was to liven up CaveTex (mission accomplished) and to encourage more to go digital. I'm already seeing results of this, as well. Those that want a hard copy aren't going to break the bank, but, please folks, at least think about going digital. While I never keep a copy of the newsletter for myself, preferring and having them in digital format, there is a unique thrill and source of pride when they do arrive from the printer and I open the box for the first time and look at the finished product and say to myself, Damn, that issue looks good!. Done patting myself on the back! Mark -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Thank that little birdy for the tidbit :) Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:46 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: No problem, Charles. (I didn't say this), but, the Winter meeting may be a good time to bring this up, as most of the chronologically challenged cavers don't make it out to this meeting. (Once again, I didn't say this). 8^) Mark From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Fri 12/11/2009 3:45 PM To: Alman, Mark @ IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG I told you that I was going to bring this up again back after the Spring TSA meeting. Many people feel the same way, they just are afraid to speak up, for fear of the wrath of a few of the older members. I'll continue to speak my mind :) Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Let's not go down that road again, Charles. The TC is coming being issued within our budget and we still have funds left over for additional activities. My point in my rant was to liven up CaveTex (mission accomplished) and to encourage more to go digital. I'm already seeing results of this, as well. Those that want a hard copy aren't going to break the bank, but, please folks, at least think about going digital. While I never keep a copy of the newsletter for myself, preferring and having them in digital format, there is a unique thrill and source of pride when they do arrive from the printer and I open the box for the first time and look at the finished product and say to myself, Damn, that issue looks good!. Done patting myself on the back! Mark -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Some of the other items the TSA has supported: * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. Plus, many other smaller projects that are listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^( Mark From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: Like? Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Some of the other items the TSA has supported: * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. Plus, many other smaller projects that are listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^( Mark From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: Like? Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Joe, I enjoyed reading this post about the various projects of the state's caving groups, past and present. As I have done before on this subject, I will take this opportunity to inject my two cents. The enjoyment I get from receiving (electronically) and reading The Caver is itself worth the dues paid. But, this is greatly overshadowed by the personal enjoyment of the camaraderie at events and gatherings with cavers who for the most part are TSA members. The good times had at these events would not be possible without the planning and hard work of the officers of TSA, TCMA and the volunteers of these groups. VIVA TSA! Fritz From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Some of the other items the TSA has supported: * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. Plus, many other smaller projects that are listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^( Mark From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: Like? Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Old cavers never die, they just fade away (but most can still read with a magnifying glass). Geezer -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:44 AM To: ellie :); Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: ... and Lyndon can offer memberships when he registers people. People can put their email on the registration and opt to make next edition be their first digital one. Yes and I promise not to tell new clueless members they have the option of getting a hard copy. That way, all new members get electronic copies. Once all existing members die, the Texas Caver will become all electronic. Great plan Ellie, you're a genius! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Well said. I am in total agreement!! For many years now I have refused to rejoin TSA due to several issues.I moved to NM in April this year and wanted to keep in touch with Texas caving so I recently re-upped my membership. What I have found is once again differences of opinion causing conflict within the organization. It almost seems as though TSA is cursed with some kind of continual turmol. TSA should and NEEDS to keep hard copies of the Caver for many excellent reason that have been better stated by folks like Mark Jim. So I say dittoI want a hard copy. Karen --Joe, I enjoyed reading this post about the various projects of the state’s caving groups, From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Hey Mark - In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email. The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer. *TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it were the only one I bet it would grow. *TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out financially on more than one occasion. *The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the 94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle. *It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique. *TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA, probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc. *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. *The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to contributed. I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents. Joe On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Some of the other items the TSA has supported: * A sizeable donation to the NSS for their White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort. * Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot of survey equipment used around the state for various projects. * A huge donation to the TCMA towards the payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase. Plus, many other smaller projects that are listed in the TSA Meeting minutes. (Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^( Mark From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member ellie :) wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: Like? Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! There's no more turmoil than normal going on. I just had to throw a rock at the hornets nest last week with my tales of woe, as it was too quiet and I was feeling the creative juices flowing, thanks in part to having completed reading Kinky Friedman's Guide To Texas Etiquette and currently reading another of his books, Spanking Watson. Plus, we needed to publicize the TSA Winter meeting next month (Sunday, January 10th at 9 AM at the Conference Center at CBSP). So you all have played into my diabolical plan! The hard copy of the TC won't be going away, as there's too much interest in keeping it and several of our college subscribers want it that way. Two-tiered or not two-tiered, I see that as being the question. Come to CBSP in January to see how that pans out. We need and appreciate every caver, even the ones of varying and differing opinions! Later, Mark From: Karen Perry [mailto:txcavem...@yahoo.com] Sent: Mon 12/14/2009 12:47 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member Well said. I am in total agreement!! For many years now I have refused to rejoin TSA due to several issues.I moved to NM in April this year and wanted to keep in touch with Texas caving so I recently re-upped my membership. What I have found is once again differences of opinion causing conflict within the organization. It almost seems as though TSA is cursed with some kind of continual turmol. TSA should and NEEDS to keep hard copies of the Caver for many excellent reason that have been better stated by folks like Mark Jim. So I say dittoI want a hard copy. Karen
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA.
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I was specifically referencing Mr. White who ran the list when I started. The TSA offered assistance once or twice and was politely declined. Bill Bentley must have just kept the same wording much like you did. Joe On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA.
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
there are a lot of agency and consultign folks who's jobs involve caves insome way and most of them monitor what goes on via cavetex something a lot of caves are not mindful of Charles Goldsmith wrote: Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
That's interesting Andy, care to enlighten me further in how this affects those agencies, etc? Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Andy Grubbs hays...@centurytel.net wrote: there are a lot of agency and consultign folks who's jobs involve caves insome way and most of them monitor what goes on via cavetex something a lot of caves are not mindful of Charles Goldsmith wrote: Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Keep up the good work, Beer Boy. On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Thank you, Ms. Vice Chair On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Keep up the good work, Beer Boy. On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Joe, I I'm going speak to one thing here, since I administer and run both (and the same) that you mention here. When I took over CaveTex, Bill handed me the reins, membership list and website. I only updated a few instructions on the site, but left it the same as he had it. Yes, it has a disclaimer on it about it not being the official list for TSA or any other group. I think the majority of the CaveTex membership wants it this way, while TSA members are a large part of the CaveTex members, there are many here who aren't. If the TSA wants its own list for updates, member talk, etc, I'd be happy to set one up, but to be honest, I don't think its necessary. TSA doesn't have anything to hide from non-members. Do I take pride in not having CaveTex as the official TSA voice? No, and it wasn't meant that way I don't think. I'm a proud (and vocal) member of TSA, TCMA, NSS and few other organizations. Charles CaveTex list administrator flunky On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:31 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Mark - *TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being affiliated with TSA. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin!
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.netwrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin!
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin!
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Amen Ediger! On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription.
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Welcome back, Karen! Now, if we could
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Yes of course, and the member fee increase. If it all sticks to your motion, and doesnt stray, we can cover a lot of business in a very short time with the members present. We will need handouts detailing everything but that is simple and I will volunteer to do it. We have time and I would rather focus on caves and caving now. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Cool, let me know if I can help further On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:08 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes of course, and the member fee increase. If it all sticks to your motion, and doesnt stray, we can cover a lot of business in a very short time with the members present. We will need handouts detailing everything but that is simple and I will volunteer to do it. We have time and I would rather focus on caves and caving now. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA. I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving.
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
I suggested all this to Mark and that we discuss it in Jan. He is cool w/ it. Jerry wants resolution...your post would be the answer everyone is waiting for On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Ttyl. Sleep time On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Good night On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:38 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Ttyl. Sleep time On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add... Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: have you had this discussion with anyone else? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had been in bed the whole time, no luck though On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Really think we should put that over Cavetex? On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to whatever related posts: I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free Texas Caver committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting where registered members present can vote for a majority. Include meeting location details if desired. On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to go hand in hand with this? I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a hard cover should have to pay for that privilege :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills. Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can table the Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for debate at the Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor and make a motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then the registered members present will vote and the majority wins. Sounds fun and simple, right? You in? On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago. Isn't that why you have geek friends? On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the January business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im embarrassed that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers. On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and wrote down the ideas. No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched to an aeronautical school to get my pilot's license. Am back in computers tho, LOL :) On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will lay out a simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next meeting. I have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You probably have material prepared as well On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees, and while I think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for free, I think that it will bring in more members in the long run. The information should be free. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA member, you would support having a small income for the organization. I will offer to give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way think that there should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to market for him though(you)-i wont On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement within the last year or so, about the $100 donation. I also seem to remark about matching that, and I'll stand by it. I'll donate $100 as well. Charles On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending,
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Charles said: My opinion, we put a monetary value with it, if you want a printed hard copy, mailed to you, you get to pay extra :) Seems only fair that if e-copies are essentially free, vs. snailed copies that cost a good bit, those who demand hard-copy should pay the freight. The rest shouldn't have pay for their indulgence; that would be like (gasp!) health insurance! They would also save Mark's remaining sanity (if any) as well as money in the long run if they printed their own. Crash said: ...bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. Point taken. Get a color laser printer that prints head-to-head. At Staples, they have a genuine HP wireless model for $400, or a Brother for only $300, and they put them on sale occasionally. See http://tinyurl.com/y8dkplq There are a lot of grottos who only print electronically, and their membership isn't suffering. Here are a couple of nice ones: http://www.bhamgrotto.org/bham/BGN/NOV2009.pdf http://www.blueridgegrotto.org/dump/dump112009.pdf Alex - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver On 12/13/09, Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net wrote: Charles said: My opinion, we put a monetary value with it, if you want a printed hard copy, mailed to you, you get to pay extra :) Seems only fair that if e-copies are essentially free, vs. snailed copies that cost a good bit, those who demand hard-copy should pay the freight. The rest shouldn't have pay for their indulgence; that would be like (gasp!) health insurance! They would also save Mark's remaining sanity (if any) as well as money in the long run if they printed their own. Crash said: ...bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. Point taken. Get a color laser printer that prints head-to-head. At Staples, they have a genuine HP wireless model for $400, or a Brother for only $300, and they put them on sale occasionally. See http://tinyurl.com/y8dkplq There are a lot of grottos who only print electronically, and their membership isn't suffering. Here are a couple of nice ones: http://www.bhamgrotto.org/bham/BGN/NOV2009.pdf http://www.blueridgegrotto.org/dump/dump112009.pdf Alex - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Like? Joe On Dec 13, 2009, at 4:34 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver On 12/13/09, Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net wrote: Charles said: My opinion, we put a monetary value with it, if you want a printed hard copy, mailed to you, you get to pay extra :) Seems only fair that if e-copies are essentially free, vs. snailed copies that cost a good bit, those who demand hard-copy should pay the freight. The rest shouldn't have pay for their indulgence; that would be like (gasp!) health insurance! They would also save Mark's remaining sanity (if any) as well as money in the long run if they printed their own. Crash said: ...bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old- fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. Point taken. Get a color laser printer that prints head-to-head. At Staples, they have a genuine HP wireless model for $400, or a Brother for only $300, and they put them on sale occasionally. See http://tinyurl.com/y8dkplq There are a lot of grottos who only print electronically, and their membership isn't suffering. Here are a couple of nice ones: http://www.bhamgrotto.org/bham/BGN/NOV2009.pdf http://www.blueridgegrotto.org/dump/dump112009.pdf Alex --- -- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e- mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
ellie :) wrote: The TSA membership fees cover much more than the cost of The Caver Joe Ranzau wrote: Like? Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the ICS, the TSA paid for their registration. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
ellie :) wrote: ... and Lyndon can offer memberships when he registers people. People can put their email on the registration and opt to make next edition be their first digital one. Yes and I promise not to tell new clueless members they have the option of getting a hard copy. That way, all new members get electronic copies. Once all existing members die, the Texas Caver will become all electronic. Great plan Ellie, you're a genius! -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
As a past editor of the caver, I'd say you got off easy. Don's iPhone. On Dec 11, 2009, at 9:57 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: My day yesterday began calmly enough. I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly, thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on my clock radio. I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but, unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work. After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit the road. I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?). After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out the door. Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I neglected to pay attention. While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment. (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an ambulance, and all). Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER. (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!) Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider receiving your TC electronically... After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a pistol, I headed for home and hearth. This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord. I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS. Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out. Ah, the joy of insufficient postage! My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered! I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip, thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at the OTHER end of the building. Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip. I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I always enjoyed looking at these as a kid and, as a currently hot-headed adult, was trying my best to not see my face joining them on this day!). The clerk finally came back and said she couldn't find the 149 newsletters and her manager would look for them unless, of course, they had already gone out. At this point, I would like to mention that insufficient postage has NEVER been an issue with the TC. I waited another five minutes and her boss came out and said that they had not gone out (dammit!) and I would have to go back to the original line, (Do Not Pass Go! and Do Not Collect $200), and pay for the additional postage there. Rolling my eyes skyward and reconsidering the wisdom of leaving my pistol at home, I wandered back to the now considerably longer line, as you'll recall being affectionately referenced as the 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Having started
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Mark, am sorry you had a bad day with it. I have enjoyed the digital copy of the TC and have them backed up safely, knowing that I'll always have them :) Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition? Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version. I'd understand if you are still on dial-up and don't want to view the TC online, or if you don't have a computer (can't be reading this otherwise). Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:57 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: My day yesterday began calmly enough. I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly, thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on my clock radio. I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but, unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work. After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit the road. I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?). After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out the door. Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I neglected to pay attention. While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment. (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an ambulance, and all). Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER. (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!) Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider receiving your TC electronically... After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a pistol, I headed for home and hearth. This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord. I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS. Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out. Ah, the joy of insufficient postage! My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered! I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip, thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at the OTHER end of the building. Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip. I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I always enjoyed looking at these as a kid and, as a currently hot-headed adult, was trying my best to not see my face joining them on this day!). The clerk finally came back and said she couldn't find the 149 newsletters and her manager would look for them unless, of course, they had already gone out. At this point, I would like to mention that insufficient postage has NEVER been an issue with the TC. I waited another five minutes and her boss came out and said that they had not gone out (dammit!) and I would have to go back to the original line, (Do Not Pass
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Maybe we can criminalize the issue (not The Caver) and publish the names of those who receive it by USPS.:) A geezer but still electronic. -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: mark.al...@l-3com.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Mark, am sorry you had a bad day with it. I have enjoyed the digital copy of the TC and have them backed up safely, knowing that I'll always have them :) Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition? Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version. I'd understand if you are still on dial-up and don't want to view the TC online, or if you don't have a computer (can't be reading this otherwise). Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:57 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: My day yesterday began calmly enough. I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly, thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on my clock radio. I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but, unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work. After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit the road. I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?). After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out the door. Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I neglected to pay attention. While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment. (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an ambulance, and all). Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER. (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!) Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider receiving your TC electronically... After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a pistol, I headed for home and hearth. This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord. I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS. Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out. Ah, the joy of insufficient postage! My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered! I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip, thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at the OTHER end of the building. Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip. I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I always enjoyed looking at these as a kid and, as a currently hot-headed adult, was trying my best to not see my face
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Uh-oh, Fritz! You and Charles better watch it or you'll have started something. (Wait for it. Wait for it...) Mark From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Fri 12/11/2009 1:35 PM To: 'Charles Goldsmith'; Alman, Mark @ IRP Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Maybe we can criminalize the issue (not The Caver) and publish the names of those who receive it by USPS.:) A geezer but still electronic. -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: mark.al...@l-3com.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition? Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version.
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
It won't be the first time. F. From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:47 PM To: Fritz Holt; Charles Goldsmith Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Uh-oh, Fritz! You and Charles better watch it or you'll have started something. (Wait for it. Wait for it...) Mark From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Fri 12/11/2009 1:35 PM To: 'Charles Goldsmith'; Alman, Mark @ IRP Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Maybe we can criminalize the issue (not The Caver) and publish the names of those who receive it by USPS.:) A geezer but still electronic. -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: mark.al...@l-3com.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition? Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version.
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Nope, not for either of us :) But you know me, I'm not about to keep my mouth shut. Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: It won’t be the first time. F.
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Some folks like reading things without a computer involved. Some don' mind. Some like to keep hardcopies for various reasons. To each his own. I recommend tolerance for a diversity of views. -Denise From: wo...@justfamily.org Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:13:07 -0600 To: mark.al...@l-3com.com CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Mark, am sorry you had a bad day with it. I have enjoyed the digital copy of the TC and have them backed up safely, knowing that I'll always have them :) Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition? Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version. I'd understand if you are still on dial-up and don't want to view the TC online, or if you don't have a computer (can't be reading this otherwise). Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:57 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: My day yesterday began calmly enough. I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly, thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on my clock radio. I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but, unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work. After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit the road. I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?). After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out the door. Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I neglected to pay attention. While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment. (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an ambulance, and all). Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER. (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!) Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider receiving your TC electronically... After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a pistol, I headed for home and hearth. This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord. I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS. Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out. Ah, the joy of insufficient postage! My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered! I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip, thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at the OTHER end of the building. Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip. I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I always enjoyed
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Mark, was that good enough :) Happy Holidays! On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: Nope, not for either of us :) But you know me, I'm not about to keep my mouth shut. Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: It won’t be the first time. F.
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Pete Lindsley caverp...@gmail.com wrote: Amen! - Pete On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so the rest of us don’t have to pay for their indulgence ;-) Cheers, Stefan
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Even color printers are inexpensive now and the expensive inks would probably last a long time if used only to print the TC. F. From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:caverp...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:47 PM To: TexasCavers Cc: Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Amen! - Pete On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so the rest of us don't have to pay for their indulgence ;-) Cheers, Stefan
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Printer ink is one of the most expensive fluids on Earth ounce for ounce. On Dec 11, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Fritz Holt wrote: Even color printers are inexpensive now and the expensive inks would probably last a long time if used only to print the TC. F. From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:caverp...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:47 PM To: TexasCavers Cc: Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Amen! - Pete On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so the rest of us don’t have to pay for their indulgence ;-) Cheers, Stefan
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
http://www.newslettersandmore.net/html/electronic.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
The hard copy hard cores would be offended and feel that they weren't getting their money's worth for the exorbitant $20. annual TSA membership fee. (I'm asking for it, Mark). F. -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Pete Lindsley caverp...@gmail.com wrote: Amen! - Pete On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so the rest of us don't have to pay for their indulgence ;-) Cheers, Stefan - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Let's not go down that road again, Charles. The TC is coming being issued within our budget and we still have funds left over for additional activities. My point in my rant was to liven up CaveTex (mission accomplished) and to encourage more to go digital. I'm already seeing results of this, as well. Those that want a hard copy aren't going to break the bank, but, please folks, at least think about going digital. While I never keep a copy of the newsletter for myself, preferring and having them in digital format, there is a unique thrill and source of pride when they do arrive from the printer and I open the box for the first time and look at the finished product and say to myself, Damn, that issue looks good!. Done patting myself on the back! Mark -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
I told you that I was going to bring this up again back after the Spring TSA meeting. Many people feel the same way, they just are afraid to speak up, for fear of the wrath of a few of the older members. I'll continue to speak my mind :) Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Let's not go down that road again, Charles. The TC is coming being issued within our budget and we still have funds left over for additional activities. My point in my rant was to liven up CaveTex (mission accomplished) and to encourage more to go digital. I'm already seeing results of this, as well. Those that want a hard copy aren't going to break the bank, but, please folks, at least think about going digital. While I never keep a copy of the newsletter for myself, preferring and having them in digital format, there is a unique thrill and source of pride when they do arrive from the printer and I open the box for the first time and look at the finished product and say to myself, Damn, that issue looks good!. Done patting myself on the back! Mark -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting :) Charles
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member
Please read my article in this quarters edition of the Texas Caver! I am a digital member(thats what she said) and can print out a hardcopy on someone elses printer if I want to read it that way. I have been begging Mark for hard copies of this new issue though. Sorry you had such a rough day. Tomorrows Christmas card will go to you if I am at a computer. I didnt know TSA was in the black-its great to be the new one on board. The Spring Convention will be cheap for all of us and Lyndon can offer memberships when he registers people. People can put their email on the registration and opt to make next edition be their first digital one. The Convention will be fun and we will have good food. Bugs are going crazy out there-lets go cave:-) On 12/11/09, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: Everybody I know has a color printer--or can afford one. Does anyone actually read The CAVER on screen instead of a copy they've printed out. It never occurred to me to NOT have a hard copy--but one that I printed out saving vast amounts of time, hassle, and money (especially money) over one that came in the mail. --Ediger On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Denise P pepabe...@hotmail.com wrote: Some folks like reading things without a computer involved. Some don' mind. Some like to keep hardcopies for various reasons. To each his own. I recommend tolerance for a diversity of views. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
