Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B using manual start-stop
Hi We ran 5335’s in “long gate” mode via the gate open / gate close commands. It worked, but you had to compensate for rollovers. My guess is that you would run into similar stuff on the 5370A. Simple answer is to try it and see … That’s what we did on the 5335 and then worked through all the issues we found. Bob > On May 30, 2018, at 11:19 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > List, > I'd like to do 1000 second TIC measurements with my 5370B but I don't want to > have to perchase A HP 1B prologic or similar controller for the timeing. > > As long as I'm interested in the TIC difference but not an absolute value is > it reasonable to use the manual start/stop switches and a stop watch or > similar timer? > Regards, > Perrier > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B using manual start-stop
Hi Perry, You should get the upgraded CPU board, since the 6800 of the 5370A/B will be a limit. It will allow you to get up to those speeds without too much pain. As added benefit you also get an Ethernet connection to it. Cheers, Magnus On 05/31/2018 05:19 AM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts wrote: > List, > I'd like to do 1000 second TIC measurements with my 5370B but I don't want to > have to perchase A HP 1B prologic or similar controller for the timeing. > > As long as I'm interested in the TIC difference but not an absolute value is > it reasonable to use the manual start/stop switches and a stop watch or > similar timer? > Regards, > Perrier > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B using manual start-stop
List, I'd like to do 1000 second TIC measurements with my 5370B but I don't want to have to perchase A HP 1B prologic or similar controller for the timeing. As long as I'm interested in the TIC difference but not an absolute value is it reasonable to use the manual start/stop switches and a stop watch or similar timer? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage
My reply did not go to the group due to finger trouble, Out of phase drops (bucks) the voltage, in phase boosts it. If you want variable boost/buck use a center tapped variac across the mains and connect the primary (rated at half supply voltage, easy in 240V countries) of the fixed transformer between the center tap and winding. With a resistive load as the voltage is reduced, the load current reduces so you can do the sums easily. The units I've used it on are constant power so the current increases with reducing voltage. However it does not matter as we are not generating power. The POWER is the same either side of the transformer (ignoring the small transformer losses), only the voltage and current change. The transformer is just supplying current, it does not matter if it bucks or boosts the voltage. With constant load power and transformer, a buck will have have higher current at the supply side, a boost will have lower. With a fixed resistance load the situation reverses because the power changes with the square of the voltage. The maximum load current is set by the current rating of the transformer secondary. This is why you can boost say 220V to 230V with a 100VA transformer and drive a 2300VA load (10Ax10V =100VA, 10Ax230V=2300VA) Some companies actually market power savers that are just a buck transformer. These things only work with resistive loads, or to a small extent, induction motors. For modern equipment with switch mode power supplies they just increase the losses. On insulation, As others have pointed out, a quality transformer will have adequate insulation ratings. and there is less differential than normal between primary and secondary. The main issue on conventional transformers would be a short secondary to frame. Making sure the frame is grounded an input fused caters for this. I used Toroids which were tape wrapped. The metal plate they were mounted on is grounded. At least one machine was subject to an individual UL inspection (we were a UK company selling world wide) at MIT (no, not the audiophools:-) That I attended. The UL inspector had no problem with the boost arrangement which was specifically discussed. We did have an intersting discussion on shortwave UV light exposure though. Never ground the top of the bolt holding down a toroid, It forms a shorted turn. Robert G8RPI. From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013, 22:39 Subject: RE: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 12:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013, 13:25 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
On 07/06/2013 07:55 AM, Adrian wrote: Mark, I wouldn't replace a 20V cap with an only 10V rated one, especially when the nominal working voltage is alrady 10V. That would be a very bad idea. You can always use caps with higher voltage ratings as replacements which is good for reliability, but don't do the other way. The exotic values HP was using (17.000 uF) are probably near impossible to find, except old stock (not so great with electrolytics) or you go to a manufacturer and get them custom made. There are several on ebay.com. Search for 17,000 ufd. Sprague 17,000 ufd at 20 Volts, CD 17,000 ufd at 30 Volts, etc. -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. = No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. --Mark Twain (1866) = smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Electrolytic capacitors: check them on the PSU, usually they are the first to look for. On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
sounds quite typical for a dried out electrolytic cap. Look for the unregulated -10V that goes into the regulator circuit. Most likely C3 on the power supply motherboard is dead. Adrian Mark C. Stephens schrieb: Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
As per my reply to the same question on the HP group, you've identified the problem so just go for a reasonably close-ish equivalent and replace it! Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 12:18:44 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 9:37 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... As per my reply to the same question on the HP group, you've identified the problem so just go for a reasonably close-ish equivalent and replace it! Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 12:18:44 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Correct, C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is measuring 39uf :) I have a 29000@10V, same dimensions, do you think the rectifiers can hack that big fella? 1uf is quite a bit more. Out of interest, this cap was replaced before, it is not a blue Sprague or Mallory but a grey Phillips Cap. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 9:19 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k sounds quite typical for a dried out electrolytic cap. Look for the unregulated -10V that goes into the regulator circuit. Most likely C3 on the power supply motherboard is dead. Adrian Mark C. Stephens schrieb: Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
Mark, I wouldn't replace a 20V cap with an only 10V rated one, especially when the nominal working voltage is alrady 10V. That would be a very bad idea. You can always use caps with higher voltage ratings as replacements which is good for reliability, but don't do the other way. The exotic values HP was using (17.000 uF) are probably near impossible to find, except old stock (not so great with electrolytics) or you go to a manufacturer and get them custom made. The closest commonly available standard value is 22.000 uF, voltage rating at least 20V (25...35V would be great). 15.000 uF would work as well if available. For higher reliability you may go for a 105°C model. Don't care too much about the mounting style. For repeated outdoor use and transport you can fix the cap with hot glue and / or binding straps. Otherwise I hope your lab isn't moving and shaking enough for the cap to loosen... ;) Adrian Mark C. Stephens schrieb: Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 9:37 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... As per my reply to the same question on the HP group, you've identified the problem so just go for a reasonably close-ish equivalent and replace it! Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 12:18:44 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Mark C. Stephens wrote: Correct, C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is measuring 39uf :) I have a 29000@10V, same dimensions, do you think the rectifiers can hack that big fella? Without a blush! -Chuck Harris 1uf is quite a bit more. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Mark C. Stephens wrote: Correct, C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is measuring 39uf :) I have a 29000@10V, same dimensions, do you think the rectifiers can hack that big fella? Without a blush! Except for the 10V part. (Which I missed on the first post) You have to use a capacitor that is at least 2x the operating voltage, and is also greater than any peak voltages that could occur in the boundary cases, such as the power line being at the scope's rated maximum power line voltage. -Chuck Harris 1uf is quite a bit more. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
Yeah, I was looking at the local suppliers and comparing items. They all seem to stop at 10,000uf for the normal places. I wonder what CR4 is, It's the -5.2 bridge before C3. I'd better check it too, must be a reason for the second time that caps failed. I suppose I could replace CR4 with a higher rated bridge and replace C3 with the 29,000uf Then I'll have prey to the transformer gods for the 8VAC that supplies CR4 doesn't go open circuit under the strain :) HP had some odd values for things on occasion, but look at what they achieved for 1970-1990... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 10:55 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... Mark, I wouldn't replace a 20V cap with an only 10V rated one, especially when the nominal working voltage is alrady 10V. That would be a very bad idea. You can always use caps with higher voltage ratings as replacements which is good for reliability, but don't do the other way. The exotic values HP was using (17.000 uF) are probably near impossible to find, except old stock (not so great with electrolytics) or you go to a manufacturer and get them custom made. The closest commonly available standard value is 22.000 uF, voltage rating at least 20V (25...35V would be great). 15.000 uF would work as well if available. For higher reliability you may go for a 105°C model. Don't care too much about the mounting style. For repeated outdoor use and transport you can fix the cap with hot glue and / or binding straps. Otherwise I hope your lab isn't moving and shaking enough for the cap to loosen... ;) Adrian Mark C. Stephens schrieb: Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 9:37 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... As per my reply to the same question on the HP group, you've identified the problem so just go for a reasonably close-ish equivalent and replace it! Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 12:18:44 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Most of the Caps I have of that size are around ~1/2 the capacitance but twice the voltage. I'll go check the dumpster (...err garage) for some old gear that's due to be scrapped. I am going hate myself if I have to part mule a probably working 8568A/B for a some sort of PSU cap. Yeah, I see your point about the cap voltage, that hadn't occurred in my electrolytic candidates to me for some reason! I'll take that one on-board definitely :) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 11:05 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Mark C. Stephens wrote: Correct, C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is measuring 39uf :) I have a 29000@10V, same dimensions, do you think the rectifiers can hack that big fella? Without a blush! Except for the 10V part. (Which I missed on the first post) You have to use a capacitor that is at least 2x the operating voltage, and is also greater than any peak voltages that could occur in the boundary cases, such as the power line being at the scope's rated maximum power line voltage. -Chuck Harris 1uf is quite a bit more. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
Running load might not be quite as bad as you'd expect, switching them all on at exactly the same time would probably cause a nice fat pulse but perhaps that's a bit extreme:-), allowing an adequate margin though is always a good idea. If you could tap into the supply and get an idea of running current that would be a good start, after that it's likely to come down to an appropriate autotransformer, fixed or variable, one of the older style saturable reactance type constant voltage transformers, or perhaps an online UPS, sinusoidal to be preferred, that will handle the input voltage and regulate the output. The latter would probably be the best, or easiest anyway, option these day, and assuming it meets your voltage and current needs then the off mains hold up time, unless you do need that too, probably wouldn't be too much of an issue so that could help keep the cost down. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 13:26:06 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ...
You wouldn't even need a UPS, check Google for mains voltage conditioners. APC's kit, for example, should be available worldwide and they make a range that, here in the UK anyway, starts for under 50 GBP. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 06/07/2013 13:26:06 GMT Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
What's the specified tolerance on the 17,000 uF? You probably have quite a range to work within. If you are lucky, they specified something like +80/-20% and the 29,000 uF might be OK (measure it). On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage
How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 12:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013, 13:25 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases, no wonder I am having problems. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Orin Eman Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 2:12 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k What's the specified tolerance on the 17,000 uF? You probably have quite a range to work within. If you are lucky, they specified something like +80/-20% and the 29,000 uF might be OK (measure it). On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: C3 (17000uf @ 10v) is open circuit. Where am I going to get one of those from. I need some advice here, Should I just use modern low ESR solder lug type soldered directly onto the board? Or Should I try and locate a screw terminal type Capacitor? Obviously, I want to do the best for this timer as I rely on it tremendously. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:47 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Checked the PSU voltages on the PSU card next to the 10811. The -5.2 is reading -4.2. Took a look with the scope and instead of a nice flat DC I see a 4V Peak to Peak spike @ 100Hz. Trying to track down a service manual. Any ideas on this one guys, if the Pass tranny was shorted, it would be a lot more than 4.2V unless the overvoltage Zener is able to sink all that current... -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013 8:18 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k I went to use my 5370B todayt and noticed the LEDS on the display are slowly sort of pulsing bright one after another. Also all the push button LEDS are going on and off one by one. The strangest thing is that it appears to be working o/k via HPIB. I don't have extender boards but I do have a signature analyser. Could it be something silly like one of the PSU regulator has gone kaput? Has anyone seen this issue before? -marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage
On 7/6/13 2:39 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? Then the voltage on the secondary of the buck transformer is subtracted from the line voltage. This is a very common thing commercially where you have what's called a buck/boost transformer to adjust the line voltage. Typically to boost it at the end of a long run where resistive drops make the voltage too low. The low voltage secondary must be big enough to carry the entire load current, of course. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 12:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases, no wonder I am having problems. Is that nominally 240 phase to neutral/ 415 phase to phase. typically, the utility is allowed 10% tolerance.. I see that wikipedia says AS60038 calls out 230V +10% -6% so that's 253 to 216 One thing to be wary of is that the utility supplies voltages at, say, 120V or 240V (in the US), but utilization equipment (motors, for instance) is labeled as 115V or 230V. This accounts for the 2% voltage drop in the branch circuit, among other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
I just checked the HP manual, most of the linear equipment is specified: 240V +5/-10% So, I am a little over at 258V here ): I am going to unplug everything until I can get this sorted out. Can't afford to lose anything more, in both time and spares obtainability. marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 8:01 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases, no wonder I am having problems. Is that nominally 240 phase to neutral/ 415 phase to phase. typically, the utility is allowed 10% tolerance.. I see that wikipedia says AS60038 calls out 230V +10% -6% so that's 253 to 216 One thing to be wary of is that the utility supplies voltages at, say, 120V or 240V (in the US), but utilization equipment (motors, for instance) is labeled as 115V or 230V. This accounts for the 2% voltage drop in the branch circuit, among other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
This is an old trick that I learned many years ago. By taking a transformer, driving its primary from the mains and then feeding that transformer's secondary voltage in series (either in phase or out of phase) will either add (in phase) voltage to the transformer primary, or subtract (out of phase) voltage to the transformer thereby reducing the transformer's primary voltage by the amount of the buck/boost transformers secondary voltage. It's important to use a transformer for the buck or boost circuit that can handle the amps necessary for the particular load. I often used Healthy filament transformers to do the job.For example... At one time I had a Kenwood 820S transceiver that I picked up in Japan. Japan's mains voltage was 100 VAC. When I got back home I needed to get the 120 VAC stepped down to 100 VAC to properly run this rig. What I did was to take a Triad multi-voltage Dry-Disk transformer and connect the primary winding across the 120 VAC mains. In this case I used the 18 VAC secondary windings and put that in series but out of phase, with the Kenwood Radio's primary. This reduced the 120 VAC going into the Kenwood to about 102 VAC (120V-18V=102 Volts). Had I connected the Dry-Disk transformer's winding in series and in phase I would've had 138 volts. I hope this helps. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Check with your power company. They may be able to switch taps on the transformer to reduce the voltage. I don't know what the situation is for you, but in some places power companies can be forced to repair/replace equipment that they fry due to faults in their system. Ed On 7/6/2013 5:14 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: I just checked the HP manual, most of the linear equipment is specified: 240V +5/-10% So, I am a little over at 258V here ): I am going to unplug everything until I can get this sorted out. Can't afford to lose anything more, in both time and spares obtainability. marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 8:01 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases, no wonder I am having problems. Is that nominally 240 phase to neutral/ 415 phase to phase. typically, the utility is allowed 10% tolerance.. I see that wikipedia says AS60038 calls out 230V +10% -6% so that's 253 to 216 One thing to be wary of is that the utility supplies voltages at, say, 120V or 240V (in the US), but utilization equipment (motors, for instance) is labeled as 115V or 230V. This accounts for the 2% voltage drop in the branch circuit, among other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k
Yes that is true in Australia, but one has to prove that it is the utility companies fault. The main problem is we are right across the street for the main transformer for the area. So, the start of the 240V run for the whole neighbourhood basically. Our switchbox meter has a voltage function that I checked this morning, the voltage is ~255-258V on all 3 phases. I will give a call to power Co stating this is not no, but I don't like my chances. Boo.. -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 9:29 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k Check with your power company. They may be able to switch taps on the transformer to reduce the voltage. I don't know what the situation is for you, but in some places power companies can be forced to repair/replace equipment that they fry due to faults in their system. Ed On 7/6/2013 5:14 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: I just checked the HP manual, most of the linear equipment is specified: 240V +5/-10% So, I am a little over at 258V here ): I am going to unplug everything until I can get this sorted out. Can't afford to lose anything more, in both time and spares obtainability. marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 8:01 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases, no wonder I am having problems. Is that nominally 240 phase to neutral/ 415 phase to phase. typically, the utility is allowed 10% tolerance.. I see that wikipedia says AS60038 calls out 230V +10% -6% so that's 253 to 216 One thing to be wary of is that the utility supplies voltages at, say, 120V or 240V (in the US), but utilization equipment (motors, for instance) is labeled as 115V or 230V. This accounts for the 2% voltage drop in the branch circuit, among other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Burt I. Weiner Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 9:28 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage... This is an old trick that I learned many years ago. By taking a transformer, driving its primary from the mains and then feeding that transformer's secondary voltage in series (either in phase or out of phase) will either add (in phase) voltage to the transformer primary, or subtract (out of phase) voltage to the transformer thereby reducing the transformer's primary voltage by the amount of the buck/boost transformers secondary voltage. It's important to use a transformer for the buck or boost circuit that can handle the amps necessary for the particular load. I often used Healthy filament transformers to do the job.For example... At one time I had a Kenwood 820S transceiver that I picked up in Japan. Japan's mains voltage was 100 VAC. When I got back home I needed to get the 120 VAC stepped down to 100 VAC to properly run this rig. What I did was to take a Triad multi-voltage Dry-Disk transformer and connect the primary winding across the 120 VAC mains. In this case I used the 18 VAC secondary windings and put that in series but out of phase, with the Kenwood Radio's primary. This reduced the 120 VAC going into the Kenwood to about 102 VAC (120V-18V=102 Volts). Had I connected the Dry-Disk transformer's winding in series and in phase I would've had 138 volts. I hope this helps. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
Using a common filament transformer as a buck/boost reduces the insulation requirement between the primary and secondary. It does this by connecting the primary to the secondary. -Chuck Harris Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
On 7/6/13 5:26 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. Most transformers have a voltage rating on ALL windings that is greater than several times the line voltage (e.g. 600V), and most undergo some sort of HiPot test as well, at several kV. If you're ripping the transformer out of some value engineered low cost piece of gear (like a $20 sprinkler timer), you might be worried about the LV winding. But anything sold as a standalone transformer. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
Marki, I used an old thyratron filament transformer from a computer tape drive to compensate for low line voltage in Detroit. Even though the transformer was rated 10A it ran our old room air conditioner just fine. From the core size it seemed more like a 200W transformer, and it never gave any problems. So just make sure the secondary current rating of the transformer you get exceeds your expected load current some and heating should not be a problem. Better yet, have it exceed your mains fuse / breaker rating some. As for insulation resistance any quality filament transformer will have a secondary insulation voltage rating called out, as long as it exceeds the mains voltage you should have no concern. Beware of so-called rectifier transformers that may not have a published insulation rating, they may not be suitable for your task. For how one company promotes and wires their buck-boost transformers see http://www.signaltransformer.com/sites/all/pdf/ICT.pdf Another possibility is to find a transformer with a 230V primary having a 208V tap (not too uncommon in the US). Feed the 230V point, use the 208V tap for your loads. Be aware that in this case the transformer would need a primary current rating to exceed your your load, so the transformer would be much bigger than the filament buck-boost transformer approach. And do package things so there are no exposed transformer leads or terminals. My transformer had wire leads, I was able to button everything up in a 4 x 4 x 2 electrical wiring box, and use common 15A pigtail connectors on short cables for mains and load. Good luck, Bob LaJeunesse From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage... The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
On 7/6/2013 5:26 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Burt I. Weiner Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 9:28 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage... This is an old trick that I learned many years ago. By taking a transformer, driving its primary from the mains and then feeding that transformer's secondary voltage in series (either in phase or out of phase) will either add (in phase) voltage to the transformer primary, or subtract (out of phase) voltage to the transformer thereby reducing the transformer's primary voltage by the amount of the buck/boost transformers secondary voltage. It's important to use a transformer for the buck or boost circuit that can handle the amps necessary for the particular load. I often used Healthy filament transformers to do the job.For example... At one time I had a Kenwood 820S transceiver that I picked up in Japan. Japan's mains voltage was 100 VAC. When I got back home I needed to get the 120 VAC stepped down to 100 VAC to properly run this rig. What I did was to take a Triad multi-voltage Dry-Disk transformer and connect the primary winding across the 120 VAC mains. In this case I used the 18 VAC secondary windings and put that in series but out of phase, with the Kenwood Radio's primary. This reduced the 120 VAC going into the Kenwood to about 102 VAC (120V-18V=102 Volts). Had I connected the Dry-Disk transformer's winding in series and in phase I would've had 138 volts. I hope this helps. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Check the ARRL Radio AmateurHandbook. This trick has been around for years. KI6WAS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage
On 7/6/2013 2:39 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 12:57 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, 6 July 2013, 13:25 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB ... Hi Nigel, The only screw type electro can find is 29000uf@10V. it's the same dimensions. Should I risk the strain on the rectifiers (another 10Kuf is rather a lot)? Without this timer I am dead in the water so I need to do the right thing here... That's why I posted on the Agilent group too, I need to be sure that I do the right thing! By the way, the failed electro measures 39uf :) I reckon, the line voltage here is 250v and the equipment is set for 240V, that extra 10V on the mains is why I am having so much equipment failure. Also the Heat sink on the 5370B got so hot I mounted a 5 fan across it to keep it at a respectable temperature. How can I drop the Mains to 240V, I have a boat load of gear that needs to be powered concurrently. (8566A, 8568B, 3585A, 5335A, 5370B, 8901A, etc, powered on together) we are starting to talk some serious current there. -marki -Original Message- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Because, when you wire the secondary in series with the primary out of phase, the voltage sum drops. this is because when thewave in the primary is high positive, the wave in the secondary is high negative. so a 12 volt transformer will reduce the voltage by 12 volts. If you wire them in series, it will add 12 volts. It is nothing more than an auto-transformer. KI6WAS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
Hi It's a rare filament transformer that does not have fairly substantial voltage ratings on the secondary. They rated them so you could directly heat rectifiers off of them. That could / would put the full high voltage winding onto the filaments. Bob On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/6/13 5:26 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. Most transformers have a voltage rating on ALL windings that is greater than several times the line voltage (e.g. 600V), and most undergo some sort of HiPot test as well, at several kV. If you're ripping the transformer out of some value engineered low cost piece of gear (like a $20 sprinkler timer), you might be worried about the LV winding. But anything sold as a standalone transformer. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B Questions
The recent thread on the 5370B resolution reminded me of a couple of questions I have about my unit. Mine has a bit of a noise problem so I thought I'd work through the operator verification tests and a couple of the diagnosic flowcharts and see what popped up. The results turned out to be more confusing than enlightening. In the Operator Verification tests on page 3-12, the format of the frequency readings in step 19 don't match the resolution shown in the specifications on page 1-3. The values in Step 19 seem to have one less digit than they should have. e.g. for the 1 sec. interval they show a target of 10.000 000 0XX MHz while my unit displays 10.000 000 000 X MHz. The other values are also short a digit. Is this a typo in the manual? When I was working through Figure 8-18 (DAC/N0 Logic flowchart), Box number 50 towards the left-center of the figure states that I should see a result of 10.001 630 MHz. I don't understand where this number comes from since the test is measuring the 10 MHz Ref Out signal. In any case, I'm getting a reading of 10.001 512 MHz. Is this better than spec, worse, or just wrong? My unit has a serial number prefix of 2732. The manual is for prefix 2904. I looked at the manual backdating pages but didn't see anything to explain these items. Thanks, Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B is sold
I put a post on here a day or two ago saying I had a 5370B for sale. It has now been sold. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B manual - missing page
Hello, I’m re-building the User Service manual for the 53070B counter, cleaning the pages and stitching all the schematics so they are easier to read. I’ve found several different manuals on the internet but all of them are missing the page fifth part of page 8-99, which folds out on page 297 of the PDF file. Does anyone have that elusive page? Regards, Roberto EB4EQA ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B manual - missing page
In message bay146-ds4f2c6323b4ea3f3ad2f96b2...@phx.gbl, Roberto Barrios wri tes: I belive the pdf file is made from my manual, so presumably that part of the page should still be physically in it, so if nothing else I can scan a copy of that... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B manual - missing page
In message bay146-ds4f2c6323b4ea3f3ad2f96b2...@phx.gbl, Roberto Barrios wri tes: I belive this is the bit you are missing: http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/hp5370b-p8-99.pdf -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B Output Help Needed
Distinguished Gents, As soon as I get my replacement GPS hockey puck antennas, and get my Lucent GPS receivers going I want to get into some serious testing and calibration of my rubidium and Xtal oscillators. I plan to run two GPS receivers independently into two 5370B TICs simultaneously for cross-checking the measurements. Here are my problems. I don’t know how to take data off of the HPIB connector on the back of the 5370B. What I want to accomplish is to have the readings go into a computer and be graphed. I don’t have the money to buy some fancy piece of interface equipment like Fluke1 on Ebay has and I have no ability to write any type of software program. I also need a Dummies book or course on how to setup and do Allan variations. I do have a dedicated computer that I can use for the project. TIA for any help that can be given on or off line. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Output Help Needed
To run two 5370Bs at once, you could drive the START inputs of the two counters with the 1-pps outputs from your GPIB clocks, and drive each STOP input with the opposing clock's 10 MHz output. With the counters running in their default (+TI) mode you should see the 0-100 ns phase difference between each clock on the display. Getting at the data is a bit complicated, unfortunately, because the only turnkey timing/ADEV application I'm aware of (mine) will not let you perform more than one simultaneous GPIB acquisition, even if you install multiple copies of the program. You would need two separate Windows PCs; two cheap/used laptops would work. Someone else may have a favorite solution in mind for this problem. Worst-case, I can tell you how to install two copies of a separate GPIB package, and use them to spool the counter readings to two separate files that can then be monitored by the timing app. It will be rather hackish, but it can be made to work. -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Perry Sandeen Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:53 PM To: time-nuts-requ...@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Output Help Needed Distinguished Gents, As soon as I get my replacement GPS hockey puck antennas, and get my Lucent GPS receivers going I want to get into some serious testing and calibration of my rubidium and Xtal oscillators. I plan to run two GPS receivers independently into two 5370B TICs simultaneously for cross-checking the measurements. Here are my problems. I don’t know how to take data off of the HPIB connector on the back of the 5370B. What I want to accomplish is to have the readings go into a computer and be graphed. I don’t have the money to buy some fancy piece of interface equipment like Fluke1 on Ebay has and I have no ability to write any type of software program. I also need a Dummies book or course on how to setup and do Allan variations. I do have a dedicated computer that I can use for the project. TIA for any help that can be given on or off line. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result
After cooling and restarting the 5370B and observing its behavior, we judged that it was more likely it had an unheated 10811 than an oscillator of lower stability, so we popped the lid (the possibility that it didn't have a 10811/10544 was the reason for leaving it intact so it could be returned). Sure enough, we found a cold 10811 and an open thermal fuse. After replacing the thermal fuse with a jumper, all appears normal. (As others have noted, it appears to me that if the heater control failed the crystal and heater would suffer major trauma before the thermal fuse opened, so we deemed it superfluous.) Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
Paul wrote: Speaking of filters. * * * many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. Have never found a replacement. Maybe some home depot air filter. The HP 5345A manual specifically directs one to remove the filters. The coarser grades of ScotchBrite pads make good air filters, if one determines there is a need and is willing to check them once in a while. The coarser ones I have are decades old and white. Some grades are available at grocery stores as pot-and-pan scrubbers. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
The black/green Scotchbrite pads contain an abrasive which might be friable. I am not sure about the white, but they probably contain something as well. Just something I worry about when using non filter materials as filters. I find that the easiest source of the exact material is in the passive electrostatic air filters sold at Home Depot, etc. They cost about $20 for the large adjustable size, and you get enough of the material to do many scopes and instruments. You really have to be careful not to get a filter material that resists the air flow too greatly. -Chuck Harris Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Paul wrote: Speaking of filters. * * * many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. Have never found a replacement. Maybe some home depot air filter. The HP 5345A manual specifically directs one to remove the filters. The coarser grades of ScotchBrite pads make good air filters, if one determines there is a need and is willing to check them once in a while. The coarser ones I have are decades old and white. Some grades are available at grocery stores as pot-and-pan scrubbers. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result
The catch with the thermal fuse in an un-plated socket is that as it ages the socket oxidises and the heater current generates enough ohmic heating through a high resistance socket to heat the fuse through its leads. This opens the fuse the next time the oven is heated from cold. I just repaired a 10811 today with the same problem. Does anyone know the rated temperature for the fuse to drop out? cheers, Neville Michie On 15/09/2010, at 8:40 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: After cooling and restarting the 5370B and observing its behavior, we judged that it was more likely it had an unheated 10811 than an oscillator of lower stability, so we popped the lid (the possibility that it didn't have a 10811/10544 was the reason for leaving it intact so it could be returned). Sure enough, we found a cold 10811 and an open thermal fuse. After replacing the thermal fuse with a jumper, all appears normal. (As others have noted, it appears to me that if the heater control failed the crystal and heater would suffer major trauma before the thermal fuse opened, so we deemed it superfluous.) Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
The blue Scotch Brite pads also have friable material in them, avoid. Consider visiting your local HVAC (heating, ventilation, and air conditioning) shop Sheet filter material is commonly available from them, and it does not deteriorate like the foam stuff. Review all grades and thicknesses they offer. Cut to size for your application Stan,W1LE Cape Cod FN41sr On 9/15/2010 7:47 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: The black/green Scotchbrite pads contain an abrasive which might be friable. I am not sure about the white, but they probably contain something as well. Just something I worry about when using non filter materials as filters. I find that the easiest source of the exact material is in the passive electrostatic air filters sold at Home Depot, etc. They cost about $20 for the large adjustable size, and you get enough of the material to do many scopes and instruments. You really have to be careful not to get a filter material that resists the air flow too greatly. -Chuck Harris Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Paul wrote: Speaking of filters. * * * many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. Have never found a replacement. Maybe some home depot air filter. The HP 5345A manual specifically directs one to remove the filters. The coarser grades of ScotchBrite pads make good air filters, if one determines there is a need and is willing to check them once in a while. The coarser ones I have are decades old and white. Some grades are available at grocery stores as pot-and-pan scrubbers. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result
I believe it is marked on the fuse body, and, possibly may be around 125C. However it has been a long long time since I have looked at one. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Neville Michie Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result The catch with the thermal fuse in an un-plated socket is that as it ages the socket oxidises and the heater current generates enough ohmic heating through a high resistance socket to heat the fuse through its leads. This opens the fuse the next time the oven is heated from cold. I just repaired a 10811 today with the same problem. Does anyone know the rated temperature for the fuse to drop out? cheers, Neville Michie On 15/09/2010, at 8:40 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: After cooling and restarting the 5370B and observing its behavior, we judged that it was more likely it had an unheated 10811 than an oscillator of lower stability, so we popped the lid (the possibility that it didn't have a 10811/10544 was the reason for leaving it intact so it could be returned). Sure enough, we found a cold 10811 and an open thermal fuse. After replacing the thermal fuse with a jumper, all appears normal. (As others have noted, it appears to me that if the heater control failed the crystal and heater would suffer major trauma before the thermal fuse opened, so we deemed it superfluous.) Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result
According to my manual, it is HP Part Number 10811-80008, which is described as UTG Fuse-Thermal 115C 1.0A 250V, in stock at HP for $5.69, available until gone. The old part number is 2110-0617. I presume that means 115 degrees C. I purchased a few several months ago (price was lower as I recall) then found some elsewhere, perhaps Mouser, that were close but not exact. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Neville Michie Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result The catch with the thermal fuse in an un-plated socket is that as it ages the socket oxidises and the heater current generates enough ohmic heating through a high resistance socket to heat the fuse through its leads. This opens the fuse the next time the oven is heated from cold. I just repaired a 10811 today with the same problem. Does anyone know the rated temperature for the fuse to drop out? cheers, Neville Michie On 15/09/2010, at 8:40 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: After cooling and restarting the 5370B and observing its behavior, we judged that it was more likely it had an unheated 10811 than an oscillator of lower stability, so we popped the lid (the possibility that it didn't have a 10811/10544 was the reason for leaving it intact so it could be returned). Sure enough, we found a cold 10811 and an open thermal fuse. After replacing the thermal fuse with a jumper, all appears normal. (As others have noted, it appears to me that if the heater control failed the crystal and heater would suffer major trauma before the thermal fuse opened, so we deemed it superfluous.) Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result
Guess my memory was not that bad :). - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. L. Trantham Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:07 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result According to my manual, it is HP Part Number 10811-80008, which is described as UTG Fuse-Thermal 115C 1.0A 250V, in stock at HP for $5.69, available until gone. The old part number is 2110-0617. I presume that means 115 degrees C. I purchased a few several months ago (price was lower as I recall) then found some elsewhere, perhaps Mouser, that were close but not exact. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Neville Michie Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B - result The catch with the thermal fuse in an un-plated socket is that as it ages the socket oxidises and the heater current generates enough ohmic heating through a high resistance socket to heat the fuse through its leads. This opens the fuse the next time the oven is heated from cold. I just repaired a 10811 today with the same problem. Does anyone know the rated temperature for the fuse to drop out? cheers, Neville Michie On 15/09/2010, at 8:40 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: After cooling and restarting the 5370B and observing its behavior, we judged that it was more likely it had an unheated 10811 than an oscillator of lower stability, so we popped the lid (the possibility that it didn't have a 10811/10544 was the reason for leaving it intact so it could be returned). Sure enough, we found a cold 10811 and an open thermal fuse. After replacing the thermal fuse with a jumper, all appears normal. (As others have noted, it appears to me that if the heater control failed the crystal and heater would suffer major trauma before the thermal fuse opened, so we deemed it superfluous.) Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
Good advice Burt. While we're on the subject of over-heating issues, on instruments with fan filters, I'd like to mention the importance to clean their fan filters at regular intervals. See: http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1995-01-03.pdf Greg - Burt wrote: ...One day whilst I had my back turned on it the pass transistor in the power supply shorted and in turn took out most of the devices on the mother board turning the mother board into a wind chime vane. I was fortunate enough to find another mother board, replaced it and it now was up and running again but still too hot in my ongoing opinion. Here's what I discovered: On the rear of the HP-3336A are two power selector switches. Instead of mine being set to 120 VAC I discovered they were set to 100 Volts. I don't know why or how they came to be set at 100 VAC since the instrument came from a local engineering firm, not Japan. Maybe somewhere along the way one of the switches simply got bumped. Anyway, it was just one position off from where the combination should've been set. Correcting the primary voltage selector cleared the heat problem and the instrument, with my monster heatsink, now runs quite cool. So, for whatever little bit it might be worth, if you think it's running unusually hot, check the voltage selector switches on the rear and possibly the primary DC voltages into the regulators. clip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
I'm not familiar with the 5370B and I may be way off on this, but I wanted to pass along some information regarding another piece of HP gear that I have which ran pretty hot, too hot in my opinion. Hopefully this will save someone else from the same grief I went through. I have a HP-3336A signal generator. Shortly after I got it I noticed that it was running pretty hot. I was assured by a few folks that they did indeed run hot and not to worry. I did worry and discovered that some of the units had a much beefier heatsink than did mine. I beefed up the heatsink but the instrument still ran pretty hot. One day whilst I had my back turned on it the pass transistor in the power supply shorted and in turn took out most of the devices on the mother board turning the mother board into a wind chime vane. I was fortunate enough to find another mother board, replaced it and it now was up and running again but still too hot in my ongoing opinion. Here's what I discovered: On the rear of the HP-3336A are two power selector switches. Instead of mine being set to 120 VAC I discovered they were set to 100 Volts. I don't know why or how they came to be set at 100 VAC since the instrument came from a local engineering firm, not Japan. Maybe somewhere along the way one of the switches simply got bumped. Anyway, it was just one position off from where the combination should've been set. Correcting the primary voltage selector cleared the heat problem and the instrument, with my monster heatsink, now runs quite cool. So, for whatever little bit it might be worth, if you think it's running unusually hot, check the voltage selector switches on the rear and possibly the primary DC voltages into the regulators. Burt, K6OQK On Sep 14, 2010, at 3:12 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: A friend just received an HP 5370B that was said to be properly working and accurate, and asked my opinion. I'm not familiar with these, so I thought I'd ask the experts. All we've done so far is hook it to a Tbolt that I know is operating properly. The 5370B took hours (8 or so, which seems like a long time for a 10811) to drift to a reasonably stable reading, a bit over 100 Hz high (which seems like an awful lot for a 10811, even after a trip across the country ten years since its last calibration). The front-panel oven indicator is off; I did not notice if it was on when we first powered it up. The 5370B reads its own oscillator within spec ( 2 mHz error; spec is +/-5 mHz). We have not opened it to tweak the oscillator (or to verify that the 10811 is, in fact, still present). Timing seems to work OK, giving the expected 100 nS and 50 nS figures when I feed the internal oscillator into the start input, tie start to stop (START COM), and switch the trigger phase of the stop channel. Finally, the external heatsink (left rear) runs pretty darn hot -- somewhat warmer than you'd really like to leave your hand on, which is WAY warmer than I'd ever design. Concerning (to me), but not completely beyond reason. I suppose it could be normal for these. It didn't burn down or shut off during the 8 hour warmup. I appreciate any input from those knowledgeable about the 5370B. Thank you, Charles Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
Speaking of filters. Thanks for putting the HP brief up. They are always a good read. Especially since these days I can afford that gear. That said many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. Have never found a replacement. Maybe some home depot air filter. Regards On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Greg Burnett gb...@comcast.net wrote: Good advice Burt. While we're on the subject of over-heating issues, on instruments with fan filters, I'd like to mention the importance to clean their fan filters at regular intervals. See: http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1995-01-03.pdf Greg - Burt wrote: ...One day whilst I had my back turned on it the pass transistor in the power supply shorted and in turn took out most of the devices on the mother board turning the mother board into a wind chime vane. I was fortunate enough to find another mother board, replaced it and it now was up and running again but still too hot in my ongoing opinion. Here's what I discovered: On the rear of the HP-3336A are two power selector switches. Instead of mine being set to 120 VAC I discovered they were set to 100 Volts. I don't know why or how they came to be set at 100 VAC since the instrument came from a local engineering firm, not Japan. Maybe somewhere along the way one of the switches simply got bumped. Anyway, it was just one position off from where the combination should've been set. Correcting the primary voltage selector cleared the heat problem and the instrument, with my monster heatsink, now runs quite cool. So, for whatever little bit it might be worth, if you think it's running unusually hot, check the voltage selector switches on the rear and possibly the primary DC voltages into the regulators. clip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
Yeah, good advice to get rid of the fan filter material, Paul. With the HP 8568B 8566B, Signal Analysis Division (SAD) weighed the pros and cons of keeping the instrument clean vs. risk of over-heating if the fan filters were not kept clean. They decided in favor of reduced risk of heat damage, and eliminated the fan filters, from then on shipping the boxes without the fan filters. Greg -- Paul wrote: ...That said many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. --clip--- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5370B Running Hot...
I guess with humor, I clean up 20 years of stuff on/in the gear. Almost always straight off. Reason. That forces a very good inspection. You find all kinds of clues as to what might be up. Burnt caps, resistors, loose wires and such. Other thing I do is measure all supplies while cold looking for dead shorts. Amazing how many caps show up that way. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Greg Burnett gb...@comcast.net wrote: Yeah, good advice to get rid of the fan filter material, Paul. With the HP 8568B 8566B, Signal Analysis Division (SAD) weighed the pros and cons of keeping the instrument clean vs. risk of over-heating if the fan filters were not kept clean. They decided in favor of reduced risk of heat damage, and eliminated the fan filters, from then on shipping the boxes without the fan filters. Greg -- Paul wrote: ...That said many if not all of the filter material is degenerated. Its soft and sticky. At a min get rid of it. My environments clean so I leave them out. --clip--- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images
I thought I would contribute a 5370B ROM version and possibly add a later ROM image to the collection. I should have left it to the experts. I am afraid that all I accomplished was to brick my 5370B: Serial number 2438A 01154, Board 05370-60109, U3. U3 is a plastic chip with no window, so probably it was an OTP (one time programmable). I think this was before hp went over to EEPROMs. U3 markings: AMI 8449HS 1818-3373 KOREA No urgency; any help most appreciated. Regards, Joe Geller ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
Just a quick report. The 5370B ROM image seems to work just fine in a 5370A. At least one GPIB sequence which would cause the original firmware to hang now seems to work fine. I put up a page describing how to change to the newer firmware, based mostly upon an earlier post by Mark Sims: http://www.flatsurface.com/5370A/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
Thanks, Mike. I've archived that page along with the firmware, just in case. Nice work, BTW! *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 18-Oct-09 at 11:44 mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: Just a quick report. The 5370B ROM image seems to work just fine in a 5370A. At least one GPIB sequence which would cause the original firmware to hang now seems to work fine. I put up a page describing how to change to the newer firmware, based mostly upon an earlier post by Mark Sims: http://www.flatsurface.com/5370A/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4519 (20091018) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m Quid Malmborg in Plano... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
Mike S a écrit : Just a quick report. The 5370B ROM image seems to work just fine in a 5370A. At least one GPIB sequence which would cause the original firmware to hang now seems to work fine. I put up a page describing how to change to the newer firmware, based mostly upon an earlier post by Mark Sims: http://www.flatsurface.com/5370A/index.html Hi, I've archived this page just in case. What exactly was fixed by using the newer firmware? Random hangs or specific bugs? Regards, -- Sylvain RICHARD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
Mike S wrote: Just a quick report. The 5370B ROM image seems to work just fine in a 5370A. At least one GPIB sequence which would cause the original firmware to hang now seems to work fine. I put up a page describing how to change to the newer firmware, based mostly upon an earlier post by Mark Sims: http://www.flatsurface.com/5370A/index.html Very neat mod, compliments! Being able to use the DIP switch to switch between old and new ROM version is very neat. Getting to the 2764 level should help. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
At 12:28 PM 10/18/2009, Sylvain RICHARD wrote... What exactly was fixed by using the newer firmware? Random hangs or specific bugs? It's not documented, AFAIK. Mine seemed to hang pretty regularly if I tried to do a GPIB interface clear/device clear while it was in talk mode and in the middle of a measurement. That seems to have gotten better with the newer firmware, but I noticed one new bug - I used to be able to do an ST8ST1 to set the reference and immediately go back to mean. With the newer firmware, it seems I have to pause between the two, or the reference isn't set correctly. The firmware Mark so kindly provided is from a unit with date code 2332A (32nd week of 1983), which is a fairly early revision of the 5370B (1st rev was 2316A, 16th week of 1983). 5370B revisions went to at least 2904A (4th week of 1989). There may be even newer firmware which has more bug fixes. I put cksum and md5sum for this image on the web page, if someone with a newer 5370B wants to compare with what they have. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images - success
Mike S wrote: Just a quick report. The 5370B ROM image seems to work just fine in a 5370A. At least one GPIB sequence which would cause the original firmware to hang now seems to work fine. I put up a page describing how to change to the newer firmware, based mostly upon an earlier post by Mark Sims: http://www.flatsurface.com/5370A/index.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Great job - I might do this to my A model - first I have to get the rest of it working though. The only improvement I would suggest is installing a socket into the board socket and soldering to it rather than soldering onto the ic. One can also still remove the ic later Have you diff'ed the two rom images to see how much code changed? Tim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images?
At 01:29 PM 10/17/2009, J. Forster wrote... Have you tried the BlueFeather site? The one associated with the Society for Creative Anachronism? No. There's a bluefeathertech.com domain, they have 5370A images on their ftp server, but nothing for the 5370B. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images?
Dieder and Bruce now have the image to put in their archives... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images?
And it's now in a directory all its own. Thanks much! *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 17-Oct-09 at 22:25 Mark Sims wrote: Dieder and Bruce now have the image to put in their archives... _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4518 (20091017) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m Quid Malmborg in Plano... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images?
At 06:35 PM 10/17/2009, Joseph Gray wrote... Didn't someone here say that there were two different firmwares for the 5370B? The early one is supposed to have its own issue with GPIB. If true, then how to tell which version you are burning? Reference: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2005-April/018240.html I don't know. I assume the version is what's marked on the chips, I know of know way to query the device for the version number. Mark, Assuming you grabbed this image from your own 5370B, could you let us know the serial number? The prefix would date it, and might provide some info. I did a quick compare, and it is different than the 5370A images which are posted elsewhere. What's not known is if the early, bad, 5370B firmware was just brought over from the 5370A, or whether there were 2 5370B versions in addition to the 5370A version. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B ROM images?
The ROM image came from a unit with date code 2332A. There was no ID on the EPROM chip. The window was covered by a piece of green tape that had no markings. _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-5370B part needed
I got in a HP5370B counter that was oh so very dead. I think this was a parts unit where all the dead boards went after they died horrible deaths... Well, I have it working now except one channel (the right one) on the input card is blown. The problem is the 5088-7062 amplifier chip (this unit uses the same input board as the HP-5345A counter input board). Does any body out there have either: 1) A spare 5088-7062 chip. 2) A spare 5088-7061 chip (the one used on the left channel... can be made to work) 3) A spare 5370B input card 4) A spare 5345A input card 5) A spare kilo or two of unobtanium (or its alloys... gold or diamonds can be made to work) _ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B, prologix and Saunders 150C F.S. in UK
Hi All, I'm downsizing at the moment and am somewhat unwillingly considering disposing of my 5370B and prologix USB-HPIB converter. I thought I'd look for offers from any interested UK list members before considering dealers or e...@. I Also have a Saunders 150C Crystal activity meter. It would probably be shipable to the USA. Contact me off list for more information. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Bruce/Magnus Thank you for your comments. Roy - Original Message - From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620 Hej Magnus One issue is that the SR620 is still in production. Thus obtaining spare parts may be a little easier than for the HP5370A. Bruce Magnus Danielson wrote: Roy Phillips skrev: Jim I was interested to hear that you are very fond of your vintage Counter (HP5370B), and I have downloaded the manual from the Agilent website. I recently purchased an HP 5335A, again a vintage model, and I have yet to assess it completely - is the 5370B much superior ? The facilities on the 5335A seem to be similar. These are two different animals. I like my 5335A for its directness and versatility, where as both 5370B and SR-620 takes a litte more bending. Resolution and jitter wise the 5370B outperforms the 5335A, and the SR-620 outperforms the 5370B. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Regards, Jim 2009/5/19 Jim Hall persei...@hotmail.com I'm looking to buy either an HP 5370B or SR620 counter. I can probably get the HP unit for less money but don't mind paying more if the SR counter is definitely better for Time Nuts type measurements (e.g. Allen Deviation). Thanks! Jim Hall W4TVI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Jim I was interested to hear that you are very fond of your vintage Counter (HP5370B), and I have downloaded the manual from the Agilent website. I recently purchased an HP 5335A, again a vintage model, and I have yet to assess it completely - is the 5370B much superior ? The facilities on the 5335A seem to be similar. Roy - Original Message - From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620 I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Regards, Jim 2009/5/19 Jim Hall persei...@hotmail.com I'm looking to buy either an HP 5370B or SR620 counter. I can probably get the HP unit for less money but don't mind paying more if the SR counter is definitely better for Time Nuts type measurements (e.g. Allen Deviation). Thanks! Jim Hall W4TVI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Hi Roy, I'm not familiar with the 5335A but when I got advice from this group, the 5370B was definitely the way to go. I'm sure they'll tell you. It does actually out perform even some modern timers. The only negative is that it's big and clunky. But *so* well designed. I just wish they made stuff like this nowadays. Regards, Jim 2009/5/19 Roy Phillips phill...@btinternet.com Jim I was interested to hear that you are very fond of your vintage Counter (HP5370B), and I have downloaded the manual from the Agilent website. I recently purchased an HP 5335A, again a vintage model, and I have yet to assess it completely - is the 5370B much superior ? The facilities on the 5335A seem to be similar. Roy - Original Message - From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620 I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Regards, Jim 2009/5/19 Jim Hall persei...@hotmail.com I'm looking to buy either an HP 5370B or SR620 counter. I can probably get the HP unit for less money but don't mind paying more if the SR counter is definitely better for Time Nuts type measurements (e.g. Allen Deviation). Thanks! Jim Hall W4TVI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Jim Palfreyman wrote: I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! I'll take that one step further: Don't underestimate the 5370A! The 5370A is functionally identical to the 5370B. It has the same specs as the 5370B. It programs with the same feature set as the 5370B. And, it makes its readings, and reports its data on HPIB just as fast as the 5370B. The only difference between the A and B model is they combined the CPU, RAM and ROM cards into one, and they made some changes to the circuitry to make manufacture easier. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
The HP catalog lists the 5370A as capable of 6000 readings/sec in binary mode, the 5370B is listed as capable of 8000/sec, probably as a result of a slightly faster processor. Not a significant difference, but there may be other subtle improvements between the two. The catalog pages are laid out quite differently for the two instruments, making a comparison difficult. I have two 5370A but no 5370B, so I cannot comment on practical differences, beyond the catalog specs. I am not sure if the 5370B suffers from the bad socket syndrome like the two 5370A I have. I had to replace all the sockets with machined pin sockets because the instruments would regularly turn on stupid (display frozen) after a few days of inactivity. I am not sure if it was a tin-whisker problem or bad contacts, but by judging how hard it was to extract the chips from the sockets, it was not due to insufficient contact pressure... This job was made very easy because I have access to excellent PWB rework tools. The cost of the sockets was nominal, I got them from Mouser I think. Since the sockets I got are gold plated and I did not pre-tin them to remove the gold from the solder joint, I expect the instrument to develop problems due to lead-gold corrosion in some years. Hopefully, I will not care by then... Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:20 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620 Jim Palfreyman wrote: I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! I'll take that one step further: Don't underestimate the 5370A! The 5370A is functionally identical to the 5370B. It has the same specs as the 5370B. It programs with the same feature set as the 5370B. And, it makes its readings, and reports its data on HPIB just as fast as the 5370B. The only difference between the A and B model is they combined the CPU, RAM and ROM cards into one, and they made some changes to the circuitry to make manufacture easier. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Roy, The 5370s have a few quirks that you should know about to avoid possible surprises. These aren't newly discovered have been the subject of various postings a few years ago. 1) Both instruments have some front end coupling with the data path the timebase. This was mostly corrected in the 5370B. 2) Both instruments have a low level issue with non-linearity of the interpolator which provides the ~20ps resolution. The result of these imperfections is jitter readings taken on the reference output signal (this is used in performance verification) will display the lowest readings you'll ever see. Real world signals locked to this source behave the same way. These readings are satisfying, but not real. When H-P spec'd the jitter floor at 30- 35ps, that's the true performance limit. Still quite good by any measure. Another candidate counter you should check out is the Fluke/ Pendulum PM6681. These aren't common, but sometimes are on *bay for reasonable ($500-600) prices. This is a much more versatile instrument than the 5370s with lower front end noise, thus somewhat better jitter floor. Regards, Pete Rawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
In message 54d2d91a9dd3422b80f4f02de65e9...@d400, Didier Juges writes: I have two 5370A but no 5370B, so I cannot comment on practical differences, beyond the catalog specs. I belive there is a difference in the input circuitry also, I recall that the B has a more capable input section than the A. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Pete Thanks for the information. Regards Roy - Original Message - From: Pete peteraw...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620 Roy, The 5370s have a few quirks that you should know about to avoid possible surprises. These aren't newly discovered have been the subject of various postings a few years ago. 1) Both instruments have some front end coupling with the data path the timebase. This was mostly corrected in the 5370B. 2) Both instruments have a low level issue with non-linearity of the interpolator which provides the ~20ps resolution. The result of these imperfections is jitter readings taken on the reference output signal (this is used in performance verification) will display the lowest readings you'll ever see. Real world signals locked to this source behave the same way. These readings are satisfying, but not real. When H-P spec'd the jitter floor at 30- 35ps, that's the true performance limit. Still quite good by any measure. Another candidate counter you should check out is the Fluke/ Pendulum PM6681. These aren't common, but sometimes are on *bay for reasonable ($500-600) prices. This is a much more versatile instrument than the 5370s with lower front end noise, thus somewhat better jitter floor. Regards, Pete Rawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
According to the 1986 catalog, the 5370B is capable of 6000 readings per sec in the fast binary mode. According to the 1983 catalog, the 5370A is capable of 6000 readings per sec in the fast binary mode. In 1992, they upped the spec to say: up to 8000 readings per second in the fast binary mode. I find it interesting that for the 5370A, they say 6000 readings per second, and the 5370B they say up to 8000 readings per second. As to the socket issue, my 5370A has been dead reliable. No problems at anytime. I think your socket issue is unique to your unit, or perhaps the series your unit came from. -Chuck Harris Didier Juges wrote: The HP catalog lists the 5370A as capable of 6000 readings/sec in binary mode, the 5370B is listed as capable of 8000/sec, probably as a result of a slightly faster processor. Not a significant difference, but there may be other subtle improvements between the two. The catalog pages are laid out quite differently for the two instruments, making a comparison difficult. I have two 5370A but no 5370B, so I cannot comment on practical differences, beyond the catalog specs. I am not sure if the 5370B suffers from the bad socket syndrome like the two 5370A I have. I had to replace all the sockets with machined pin sockets because the instruments would regularly turn on stupid (display frozen) after a few days of inactivity. I am not sure if it was a tin-whisker problem or bad contacts, but by judging how hard it was to extract the chips from the sockets, it was not due to insufficient contact pressure... This job was made very easy because I have access to excellent PWB rework tools. The cost of the sockets was nominal, I got them from Mouser I think. Since the sockets I got are gold plated and I did not pre-tin them to remove the gold from the solder joint, I expect the instrument to develop problems due to lead-gold corrosion in some years. Hopefully, I will not care by then... Didier KO4BB ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 54d2d91a9dd3422b80f4f02de65e9...@d400, Didier Juges writes: I have two 5370A but no 5370B, so I cannot comment on practical differences, beyond the catalog specs. I belive there is a difference in the input circuitry also, I recall that the B has a more capable input section than the A. There is a difference, but the specifications remain the same. I was told that the difference made manufacture of the 5370B easier. Probably less need to select parts. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
There is an interesting application note on the differential linearity issue. Apparently the problem was found by a Tektronix engineer, and HP provided a correction to fix the problem in the 5370A. That correction, I believe, is available on Bama. -Chuck Harris Pete wrote: Roy, The 5370s have a few quirks that you should know about to avoid possible surprises. These aren't newly discovered have been the subject of various postings a few years ago. 1) Both instruments have some front end coupling with the data path the timebase. This was mostly corrected in the 5370B. 2) Both instruments have a low level issue with non-linearity of the interpolator which provides the ~20ps resolution. The result of these imperfections is jitter readings taken on the reference output signal (this is used in performance verification) will display the lowest readings you'll ever see. Real world signals locked to this source behave the same way. These readings are satisfying, but not real. When H-P spec'd the jitter floor at 30- 35ps, that's the true performance limit. Still quite good by any measure. Another candidate counter you should check out is the Fluke/ Pendulum PM6681. These aren't common, but sometimes are on *bay for reasonable ($500-600) prices. This is a much more versatile instrument than the 5370s with lower front end noise, thus somewhat better jitter floor. Regards, Pete Rawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
As to the socket issue, my 5370A has been dead reliable. No problems at anytime. I think your socket issue is unique to your unit, or perhaps the series your unit came from. I've heard of socket failures happening on at least one 5370A besides Didier's, but I don't think it's reached pandemic proportions yet. Seems that the socket manufacturers didn't really understand their own reliability figures back then. I've been bitten by them myself -- not by my 5370, but by the Apple II+ I had as a high-school kid, which used similar DIP sockets on every chip. My guess is that the gold-plated machined-pin sockets will be fine for the duration. The pins probably saw enough tinning during soldering, and if not, you can just reheat them later if needed. So far, I've seen problems with gold-to-copper solder joints only in cases where the rule against making a physically-stressed solder connection has been violated. The 8662A is prone to those problems because HP failed to use pigtails to connect their SMC center pins to the PC boards. A bigger problem with the machined-pin DIP sockets is that they can let go of their chips if subjected to vibration in some orientations, another fun phenomenon that the manufacturers don't seem to talk about. 5370s are nice boxes but they can be a challenge to work on. There are a couple of editions of the service manual, both apocryphal at best. One concern is that the interpolators are hard to calibrate properly without an 8082A pulse generator (read: I'm not sure how you'd even attempt it.) -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Jim Palfreyman skrev: I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Have you moded your A8 assembly like I did? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Roy Phillips skrev: Jim I was interested to hear that you are very fond of your vintage Counter (HP5370B), and I have downloaded the manual from the Agilent website. I recently purchased an HP 5335A, again a vintage model, and I have yet to assess it completely - is the 5370B much superior ? The facilities on the 5335A seem to be similar. These are two different animals. I like my 5335A for its directness and versatility, where as both 5370B and SR-620 takes a litte more bending. Resolution and jitter wise the 5370B outperforms the 5335A, and the SR-620 outperforms the 5370B. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Hej Magnus One issue is that the SR620 is still in production. Thus obtaining spare parts may be a little easier than for the HP5370A. Bruce Magnus Danielson wrote: Roy Phillips skrev: Jim I was interested to hear that you are very fond of your vintage Counter (HP5370B), and I have downloaded the manual from the Agilent website. I recently purchased an HP 5335A, again a vintage model, and I have yet to assess it completely - is the 5370B much superior ? The facilities on the 5335A seem to be similar. These are two different animals. I like my 5335A for its directness and versatility, where as both 5370B and SR-620 takes a litte more bending. Resolution and jitter wise the 5370B outperforms the 5335A, and the SR-620 outperforms the 5370B. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
No I haven't. What does this mod do? 2009/5/20 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org Jim Palfreyman skrev: I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Have you moded your A8 assembly like I did? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Hi John, I know that socket problems in the 1970's could be a real bear, but most of them started very early in the life of the product. For instance, I had heard about smacking Apple I memory on the table to fix problems by the time they had been out for only a couple of years. Maybe my 5370A already has replacement sockets? I'd have to look, but since it is working reliably, I am not feeling really inclined to de-rack it to check. I have used gold plated machined-pin sockets for many years, and never saw a failure due to the gold/solder interface. I am certain that to some degree the problem is real, but it is also not real most of the time. Stressed joints are certain to be a contributing factor. If you look carefully at the augat machine-tool sockets, you will likely notice that there is a tunnel that runs under the socket so that you can strap the IC into the socket. A good idea much of the time. I have never had a plastic packaged IC fall out under any circumstances, but I can see where the more massive ceramic packages (eg. 5400 TTL) might be a real problem. It always bothered me a little bit how the fingers in a machined pin socket are not in any way aligned with the faces of the IC pin. They are clearly designed for a round pin! ... and are being used on a square pin with random orientation. Probably not an ideal situation. When I bought my 5370A, I also bought an 8082A so that I could service it. The 8082A is about the only generator that is up to the task. It was a major disappointment when the 5370A turned out to be working well, and in specification. Hopefully it will drift out so I can put in the differential linearity modification, and calibrate the beast... in the mean time I will just use it. -Chuck Harris John Miles wrote: As to the socket issue, my 5370A has been dead reliable. No problems at anytime. I think your socket issue is unique to your unit, or perhaps the series your unit came from. I've heard of socket failures happening on at least one 5370A besides Didier's, but I don't think it's reached pandemic proportions yet. Seems that the socket manufacturers didn't really understand their own reliability figures back then. I've been bitten by them myself -- not by my 5370, but by the Apple II+ I had as a high-school kid, which used similar DIP sockets on every chip. My guess is that the gold-plated machined-pin sockets will be fine for the duration. The pins probably saw enough tinning during soldering, and if not, you can just reheat them later if needed. So far, I've seen problems with gold-to-copper solder joints only in cases where the rule against making a physically-stressed solder connection has been violated. The 8662A is prone to those problems because HP failed to use pigtails to connect their SMC center pins to the PC boards. A bigger problem with the machined-pin DIP sockets is that they can let go of their chips if subjected to vibration in some orientations, another fun phenomenon that the manufacturers don't seem to talk about. 5370s are nice boxes but they can be a challenge to work on. There are a couple of editions of the service manual, both apocryphal at best. One concern is that the interpolators are hard to calibrate properly without an 8082A pulse generator (read: I'm not sure how you'd even attempt it.) -- john, KE5FX ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B vs SR620
Jim Palfreyman skrev: No I haven't. What does this mod do? Disabling the 10 MHz presence detector that spews out wideband 5 MHz and lots of overtone noise on among other things the 10 MHz output. I did a very simple short which brings one of the transistors out of bias and thus disabling the detector. All the detector does is to lit a LED for you when you have the hood open to do maintainence, so it is fairly safe to do it. Cheers, Magnus 2009/5/20 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org Jim Palfreyman skrev: I have a 5370B and love it. It's big, and postage to Australia was as much as the unit itself, but what it can do - especially given its vintage - makes it a perfect unit for my rack! And the manual (plus people here) make it really great if there are ever any problems. Don't underestimate the 5370B! Have you moded your A8 assembly like I did? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Didier Juges writes: If a piece of black tape covering the lsd would turn 2.01 into 2.0, would that solve the problem? Doesn't that only solve the problem if the black tape knows about 4/5 rounding ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
Hi All, This is my first 5370B so I knew nothing about its expected behaviour. I bought it on eBay as the song goes and when it arrived I could see damage to the top right corner of the front frame that the operator panel screws into. It looked like it had been dropped and dropped quite hard. Although I could not detect any drift on the oscillator, I thought I'd try some of the 10811's I have collected. While I was about it I replaced the front frame. Interestingly enough, when the oscillator was replaced, the frequency stopped jittering around and sits quite happily at 11 digits resolution. Now, although it seems deceptively simple, I can't decide whether to tune the multiplier or not. I'd hate to be fixing something that wasn't broken in the first place. Here is an interesting page on leapsecond depicting a drifting HP 10811. http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/10811-slow/ Many thanks, Mark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], marks twotoe.com writ es: Now, although it seems deceptively simple, I can't decide whether to tune the multiplier or not. If you have a good spectrum analyser and follows the procedure, it's not tricky at all. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
From: Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 06:36:26 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Didier Juges writes: If a piece of black tape covering the lsd would turn 2.01 into 2.0, would that solve the problem? Doesn't that only solve the problem if the black tape knows about 4/5 rounding ? The tape does not know anything about the rounding, but it proves to show that it solves a stupid problem to start with. It makes it bleeding obvious. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
At 10:48 PM 5/10/2008, Tom Van Baak wrote... If a piece of black tape covering the lsd would turn 2.01 into 2.0, would that solve the problem? Why not tape over the whole display, or better yet, just completely avoid the cost of instrumentation and ship the DUT without testing? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
I can see we now agree this was a silly discussion :-) Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike S Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:43 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B At 10:48 PM 5/10/2008, Tom Van Baak wrote... If a piece of black tape covering the lsd would turn 2.01 into 2.0, would that solve the problem? Why not tape over the whole display, or better yet, just completely avoid the cost of instrumentation and ship the DUT without testing? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:11:42 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark, The 5335 is specified at 9 digits/second of resolution, the 5370 is specified at 12 digits/second. That is severly overoptimistic on the 5370's part and just about overoptimistic on the 5335's part. I think you should not use those sales-numbers, as they are there to give you a one-figure-of-merit hint, but they are not qualitative values. That's 3 orders of magnitude better resolution. That brings up noise that at 9d/s is simply negligible. I'd suspect something like 40 times better, not 1000 times better. The 5335 singel-shot resolution is 500 ps while the 5370 has 25 ps, a factor of 20. The front-ends is not that good on the 5335 thought, so let's add some noise there. I could make some tests if you like... My two 5370s are rock stable if I only look at the 9 left-most digits. Maybe you should trim your multiplier chain? While it would be nice to have the same stability at 12d/s on the 5370 as we get on the 5335 at 9d/s, that simply does not happen. I don't see how you could expect that. 10 digits stable should be possible, but again it is just a very very rought estimate of performance. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
Magnus Danielson wrote: Mark, The 5335 is specified at 9 digits/second of resolution, the 5370 is specified at 12 digits/second. That is severly overoptimistic on the 5370's part and just about overoptimistic on the 5335's part. I think you should not use those sales-numbers, as they are there to give you a one-figure-of-merit hint, but they are not qualitative values. That's 3 orders of magnitude better resolution. That brings up noise that at 9d/s is simply negligible. I'd suspect something like 40 times better, not 1000 times better. The 5335 singel-shot resolution is 500 ps while the 5370 has 25 ps, a factor of 20. The front-ends is not that good on the 5335 thought, so let's add some noise there. I could make some tests if you like... Actually the 5370 single shot resolution is 20ps, however the noise is a little larger than that. It can be much larger if the input signal slew rate at the trigger point is much less than about 7.5V/us (input attenuation = 1X). The performance also deteriorates when the input amplifiers are severely overdriven. Since the 5370 input amplifier noise bandwidth is 500MHz the wideband noise seen by the 5370 inputs should also be low. My two 5370s are rock stable if I only look at the 9 left-most digits. Maybe you should trim your multiplier chain? Aligning the various filters in the 10MHz to 200MHz multiplier chain can make a considerable difference to the apparent noise. While it would be nice to have the same stability at 12d/s on the 5370 as we get on the 5335 at 9d/s, that simply does not happen. I don't see how you could expect that. 10 digits stable should be possible, but again it is just a very very rought estimate of performance. Cheers, Magnus Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
-Original Message- From: Magnus Danielson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:09 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:11:42 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark, The 5335 is specified at 9 digits/second of resolution, the 5370 is specified at 12 digits/second. That is severly overoptimistic on the 5370's part and just about overoptimistic on the 5335's part. I think you should not use those sales-numbers, as they are there to give you a one-figure-of-merit hint, but they are not qualitative values. That's 3 orders of magnitude better resolution. That brings up noise that at 9d/s is simply negligible. I'd suspect something like 40 times better, not 1000 times better. The 5335 singel-shot resolution is 500 ps while the 5370 has 25 ps, a factor of 20. The front-ends is not that good on the 5335 thought, so let's add some noise there. I could make some tests if you like... My two 5370s are rock stable if I only look at the 9 left-most digits. Maybe you should trim your multiplier chain? While it would be nice to have the same stability at 12d/s on the 5370 as we get on the 5335 at 9d/s, that simply does not happen. I don't see how you could expect that. 10 digits stable should be possible, but again it is just a very very rought estimate of performance. Cheers, Magnus Sorry if my answer was confusing. I did not mean to imply that the 5370 was 3 orders of magnitude more accurate than the 5335, simply that it attempts to display data with 3 orders of magnitude greater resolution (3 orders of magnitude more precise). The 5370 spec indicates 20 pS accuracy in single-shot TI measurements, while it displays the data with 1 pS resolution. In that mode, even with ideal signals coming in, there is significant jitter on the displayed value. That's a good illustration of the difference between precision and accuracy. I think it shows where the limits of conventional technology lies. There are a lot of 9 d/s counters, and most of those I have seen are perfectly stable at that level. Some are even very simple and inexpensive. To get significantly better requires exponentially more difficult technology, at least considering what was available 20 years ago. Didier KO4BB No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 8:08 AM To: Time-Nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B That's a good illustration of the difference between precision and accuracy. This is not unique to the 5370 counter. Many instruments have precision that far exceeds their accuracy. Most microwave network analyzers have amplitude resolution of 0.01dB, while their accuracy is just around 1dB in most cases. There are a few cases where it can actually be useful, but in the vast majority of cases, it simply confuses the hell out of the unsuspecting QA person. I have had to argue too many times that a piece of equipment with a 2dB p-p requirement on flatness was just fine when it measured 2.01dB on the HP network analyzer. I would not have gotten in that argument if the data had been 1.99dB. Go figure. Didier No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B
At 09:22 AM 5/10/2008, Didier Juges wrote... Most microwave network analyzers have amplitude resolution of 0.01dB, while their accuracy is just around 1dB in most cases. I have had to argue too many times that a piece of equipment with a 2dB p-p requirement on flatness was just fine when it measured 2.01dB on the HP network analyzer. I would not have gotten in that argument if the data had been 1.99dB. Go figure. I figure you're both wrong. If the measuring instrument is no better than 1 dB absolute, you can't expect to do it - a flat line measurement could represent an actual + or - 1 db, the limit of the spec. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
