Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread Grumpy Bob

agentsmith wrote: 
> I see.  Previously I had my friend helping me to install Squeezecenter
> to my QNAP.  I recall the performance was much better with about 30,000
> tracks.  Problem is I don't think I will be capable of reinstalling LMS
> to the QNAP.
> 

I find installing LMS on my QNAP became much easier with the package
described here: http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=35740
My earlier installations were really quite fiddly, needing to install
SSOTS before installing LMS. The package includes both.

Robert



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread agentsmith

Mnyb wrote: 
> No that's the other mystery, why is you server slow it should not be ?
> 
> Is not PureMusic one of those apps that tweaks the whole OS basically ,
> can that have any influence  on running a normal aplication .

Sorry to have confused you.  My MacMini is the player directly connected
to my DAC and playback from MAcOS using Pure Music.

My LMS is installed onto a Macbook Pro which is not used as a player.  

But anyway, Pure Music is just a so called audiophile grade software
player, and is not known to hog the CPU.

In ay case I could load up a Firewire or USB drive with gobs of files
and connect to my Macbook Pro and see if that is much faster.  Someone
mentioned 1 hour scan time for 10's of thousands of tracks on the Vortex
server, that seems pertty amazing speed.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread Mnyb

agentsmith wrote: 
> I see.  Previously I had my friend helping me to install Squeezecenter
> to my QNAP.  I recall the performance was much better with about 30,000
> tracks.  Problem is I don't think I will be capable of reinstalling LMS
> to the QNAP.
> 
> Of course I can always buy one more FireWire drive for my MacMini and
> have LMS installed there, that should really fly.  But my MacMini also
> houses PureMusic for DSD playing so I don't really that machine to do
> too much.
> 
> One thing I don't understand is after finished scanning, access to the
> database which is local should not be slow.  Especially considering that
> the system is quite capable of playing even 24/192 files over the LAN
> very smoothly.  Or is the database stored on the NAS drive?  If so, is
> there anyway to set the DB to local?

No that's the other mystery, why is you server slow it should not be ?

Is not PureMusic one of those apps that tweaks the whole OS basically ,
can that have any influence  on running a normal aplication .



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread gln2

Thank-you all for your comments.  I appreciate the time you took to
respond to my question.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread Jeff52

Many of us say that something "sounds better" than something else,
whether it be a comparison of DACs, CD players, digital audio via FLAC
files or via shiny discs, the Touch, etc., however I would speculate
most of us have not precisely level matched the components in question
and performed a double-blind test of the components, DACs or equipment
in order to determine whether we really can discern a difference. I have
played the chase the DAC issue ever since the first outboard DACs became
available. I am no longer playing that game as it is an endless drain on
one's wallet without any real objective evidence that it significantly
improves one's system. 

I spent a lot of time and money building a dedicated audio room with
acoustical treatment and really enjoy the sound of the Touch vs. my
various CD/SACD/Universal disc players. It sounds pretty good to me. I
guess I got over my audio nervosa many years ago.  The Touch coupled
with a competently designed system in a decent listening environment is
a very capable piece of equipment. Enjoy the music.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread agentsmith

Mnyb wrote: 
> Exactly , scanning files over the network is slow even if the server is
> fast .
> 
> Almost no NAS comes close to 1g tranfer speed more often less than 100mb
> in practice, and even if they did it still much slover than SATA or
> actually even USB can be faster .

I see.  Previously I had my friend helping me to install Squeezecenter
to my QNAP.  I recall the performance was much better with about 30,000
tracks.  Problem is I don't think I will be capable of reinstalling LMS
to the QNAP.

Of course I can always buy one more FireWire drive for my MacMini and I
that that should really fly.

One thing I don't understand is after finished scanning, access to the
database which is local should not be slow.  Espccially considering that
the system is quite capable of playing even 24/192 files over the LAN
vey smoothly.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread Astroimage

I will say that my CDP (Marantz SA11-s1; $3,500.00 or $4,500.00 player)
was sold shortly after getting a Touch. 

My rig, though not high end, does sound good with the unmodified Touch.
Preamp - deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Amps - QuickSilver MidMonos
Speakers - Von Schweikert VR4jr's 

Brian



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread Michael Herger

Unfortunately it's not quite this simple, a number of the important
files get  regenrated at boot time (I don't remember exactly  which
ones) so just changing the file  doesn't work.


server.prefs should not be re-generated - and that's where most changes  
would go. Just make sure the server is not running when you edit the file,  
as in that case it _will_ be overwritten sooner or later. There's a json  
file in the prefs folder with information about the media connected etc.  
That's the one which gets generated whenever you start the device or plug  
something in.



So the simple answer is "it CAN be done, but it aint easy!"


Agreed :-).

--

Michael
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread JohnSwenson

mherger wrote: 
> > Ok, I'm not totally new to this kind of solutions.
> > Please, could you give some hints, some starting point?
> 
> In Settings/Advanced you can enable SSH ("Remote access"). Then you'll 
> 
> find the configuration file in /etc/squeezecenter. I'd suggest you play 
> 
> with the prefs on a desktop installation before you start tinkering on
> the  
> device. And always keep a copy of the working file..
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

Unfortunately it's not quite this simple, a number of the important
files get  regenrated at boot time (I don't remember exactly  which
ones) so just changing the file  doesn't work. I experimented with this 
a while back and wound up having to write some "patches" and  apply them
from linix at the correct place in the boot process, after the files get
rewritten but before the server gets started. Unfortunately it's been
awhile and the machine  I did all this on is no longer with us so I
don't have the details. 

Another option is to  find where in the boot code the files are being 
re-written and stop it, but it turned out to be multiple places, it was
easier to just aply a patch after the re-writes.

So the simple answer is "it CAN be done, but it aint easy!"

John S.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] RCA Output while in standby

2012-12-06 Thread Mnyb

For the digital out .

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16069

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?77360-Disable-audio-outputs-when-off/page4

But it may not always help ,some dac's are to simplistic .

See this SB3 bug ,it has" digital out off" but...

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10077



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] RCA Output while in standby

2012-12-06 Thread JohnSwenson

giantpopples wrote: 
> Hello !
> I have recently bought a Emotiva A-100 amp which has a very nice
> function : it detects when a signal comes from the stereo RCA input to
> automatically power.
> Problem is, I have hooked up my squeezebox touch and it seems that there
> is always current on the RCA output (like the digital one), even when
> the SBT is in standby, therefore the amp is always on :-( (the fault is
> on the SBT, if I remove the RCA from the SBT after a few seconds the amp
> goes off)
> Is that normal behavior, and is there any options/plugins/lua file I
> could use to have this behavior disabled ?
> 
> The amp also have a trigger input, but the SBT does not support this
> whith the 3.5" audio out..
> 
> Thank you very much !

Are you talking  about the single RCA digital out, or the two analog RCA
outs? The noise  level on the analog outs is VERY low when not  playing
anything, if that is triggering the amp then either  its sensitivity is 
set wrong or you have a ground loop.

If you are talking about the  DIGITAL out from  the Touch, then this is
a known issue, the  digital out is always sending out a signal, even if
it is  "silent". 

John S.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread JohnSwenson

This is one of those very difficult to answer in the general sense. I
have a $1200 CD player that does not sound as good as the Touch, but a
$4000 one which is a lot better. Non of my less than $1000 players are
better than the Touch, but that does not mean it is universally true. I
certainly have not compared  it to every player out  there. 

Then there is what you are looking for. I have been in a listening
session with several people where different people ranked equipment
differently and we were all in the same room listening to the exact same
setup. So YOU may like the Touch better and someone else may like the 
CD player better etc. 

The same thing goes for external DACs, there are a LOT of inexpensive
DACs out there right now, some people think some of them sound better
than the Touch analog outs and others think the Touch sounds better. 

I have a system in my listening room (It's all DIY, so don't ask what
equipment it is) that is very resolving. I also have built many DACs,
some of which  are about as good as it gets today. These DACs DO sound 
significantly better than the Touch, but the Touch on it's own still
sounds quite good in this system. Last night  I  was  doing a little 
comparison with the Touch, a $300 DAC and a $1200 DAC. The Touch easily
beat the $300 DAC and was neck and neck with the $1200 DAC. Of course
someone else might have  heard it differently. 

But then  there is a $150 DAC (HRT music streamerII) which when used
with EDO and parts of  TT3.0  is better than that $1200 DAC! (again that
is for ME, someone else may think differently)

John S.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread Mnyb

Maybe bring out the preamp anyway , unless you use analog attenuators
(or the power amp has adjustable gain ) . I may be wrong is this an
integrated classe or a power amp ?

Touch volume is digital that is normally not a problem but if you are
very low on the volume scale it could be ? I once had a classe amp it
had high sensitivity ?
for comparison note that if you use replay gain you drop -10dB in
volume.
If you are to compare try to calibrate the volume as it is not likely
that your CD player or Touch sounds equally loud (radio schah spl meter
would do ) and turn of replay gain/smart gain

And as you say you have many unknown at the same time , you cant asses
what is what really .

Speakers you never heard before ? and you haven’t heard good stuff in
your home for years ? the human sound memory is not really that good soo
the events are a bit to far separated in time too ?

Suggest getting used to new speakers ,just listen to music a week or two
,do some placement experiments with them to get them to perform their
best they might need some "burn in" but actually it is often the
listener that gets accustomed to the sound, but speakers could in same
cases need it for real (most other components don't contrary to popular
opinion ).

I have just briefly used the analog outs into my old speakers so I have
no solid opinion that could help (and that to was a long time ago ) and
I did not eminently had any analog CD player of any kind to compare
with.

Touch could possible be bettered by a very good dac , Touch is not state
of the art in all aspects the price point makes for some compromises .



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread gln2

garym wrote: 
> Short answer is there should be no difference unless your cd player has
> a much better built in Dac. That's unlikely unless you have a cd player
> costing more than 750, and even then who knows. 
> 
> More likely, the touch is not as loud as the cd player so you probably
> just perceive the slightly louder cd player as sounding better.

Which is why I was wondering if the DAC in the Touch is inferior to the
DAC's in a mid-level CD player, which is what I had used previously.  I
had read many that said the Touch has a decent DAC, but then again many
people seem to feed the output into an outside DAC unit. So, I wasn't
sure how it compared to a decent CD player.

Volume definitely needs to be turned way up, you are correct.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread garym

Short answer is there should be no difference unless your cd player has
a much better built in Dac. That's unlikely unless you have a cd player
costing more than 750, and even then who knows. 

More likely, the touch is not as loud as the cd player so you probably
just perceive the slightly louder cd player as sounding better.



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[SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?

2012-12-06 Thread gln2

I'm wondering if the Touch's analogue output is generally considered
inferior to a mid-level CD player WHEN USING a high-end receiver/amp and
speakers. (I realize a DAC can be a big improvement, but I'm not up to
that step yet.)  For those who have listening experience using high-end
equipment did you feel that your CD player outperformed the Touch? (I'd
prefer no comments from experiences using ~$300 receivers with ~$400
speakers, please.)

I had my Touched hooked up to ceiling speakers for the past year, but
just purchased a pair of high-end stereo speakers (Ascend Tower RAAL). 
Just hooked up an unmodified Touch to them playing CD ripped FLAC files
stored on a vortexbox and using the analogue out into a 200 wpc Classe
amp.  I expected to be blown away, but just find the sound "good". Sound
quality does not seem as good as my previous speakers and CD player,
which I got rid of a few years ago. This is the first time I've feed the
Touch into a high-end stereo, and also the first time I've listened to
these speakers, so I'm not sure why I'm disappointed.  It has also been
a few years since I've had my prior high-end stereo, so I can't make any
direct comparisons.  The speakers are very highly regarded, so could it
be the Touch analogue out?  My CD player doesn't have variable out, so I
would need to pull my old preamp out of storage in order to do a direct
comparison with CD's.  So, I thought it would be good to get some
opinions.

Thanks.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SqueezePad or iPeng app?

2012-12-06 Thread Saturn94

Letten wrote: 
> Sorry for picking up on the original question of choosing an App for
> controlling Squeezebox'es. 
> 
> But our household has many squeezeboxes old and new, and we control them
> from many different devices: PC's through webinterface, Android phones
> and tablets, iPads, and the Squeezeboxes them seleves. 
> 
> In my experience, switching between all these "remotes" is much easier
> using interfaces which are more or less identical.
> 
> So, I actually went back to using Logitech's own App more often, even
> though I have some of the others. I know it's not as smooth in the
> interface, but at least it's familiar across all our devices.
> 
> Just my 2 cents :-)

No apology necessary.  I was the one who took this thread off it's
original course. :o

I appreciate your feedback using Logitech's app to control multiple
devices. :)

toby10 wrote: 
> Might be because iPeng is still trying to connect to the (now absent)
> LMS.  You need to switch iPeng over to MySB.com where your Touch is.

Yes, that's what I've learned from the responses here.  I'm slowly but
surely learning how all this works with the great help I am getting
here. :)



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[SlimDevices: Touch] RCA Output while in standby

2012-12-06 Thread giantpopples

Hello !
I have recently bought a Emotiva A-100 amp which has a very nice
function : it detects when a signal comes from the stereo RCA input to
automatically power.
Problem is, I have hooked up my squeezebox touch and it seems that there
is always current on the RCA output (like the digital one), even when
the SBT is in standby, therefore the amp is always on :-( (the fault is
on the SBT, if I remove the RCA from the SBT after a few seconds the amp
goes off)
Is that normal behavior, and is there any options/plugins/lua file I
could use to have this behavior disabled ?

The amp also have a trigger input, but the SBT does not support this
whith the 3.5" audio out..

Thank you very much !



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] LMS on Ubuntu 12.04 cannot downsample 24/192

2012-12-06 Thread Mnyb

Fukinagashi wrote: 
> But my machine is 32 bit indeed...

:/ then it should work ? no funny settings in "file types" like
disabling flac=native



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SqueezePad or iPeng app?

2012-12-06 Thread toby10

Saturn94 wrote: 
>   The issue I'm running into is when I launch iPeng on my iPad Mini
> sometimes it doesn't "see" the Touch at all; there's simply no option to
> connect to the Touch via iPeng when this happens. 

Might be because iPeng is still trying to connect to the (now absent)
LMS.  You need to switch iPeng over to MySB.com where your Touch is.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread CharlieG

agentsmith wrote: 
> - Is Vortexbox a software only solution?  I see a lot of Vortexox based
> hardware boxes.

It can be either.  An old computer can be converter to Vortexbox or you
can purchase a Vortexbox Appliance (a small computer running Votexbox). 
I have an old PC (2004) running Vortexbox, other forum members have the
Vortexbox Appliance. 

agentsmith wrote: 
> - If I just want to use a dedicated PC with gobs of storage just to
> serve as a LMS or may be as a file server for my MacMini/Pure Music
> player, could I just download VortexBox and be in business within
> minutes? 

Maybe not minutes but not hours.  The software has to be downloaded and
burned to a CD (using ISO burning software).  The target computer is
then booted up using the ISO CD which wipes the hard drive and loads up
the Vortexbox operating systen.  This sounds more complicated than it
actually was for me.  I hung out on the Vortexbox Fourm, reading, before
attemping this.

agentsmith wrote: 
> - Is Vortexbox free?  Do I have to buy anything else?

No.  I bought and installed a larger hard drive on my old PC because the
original was tiny.  I also bought an external hard drive to backup to. 
BTW backing up using Vortexbox works really slick. 

agentsmith wrote: 
> - After the Vortexbox software is installed, can the PC be left running
> headless and be accessed 100% from a web client?

Yes.  I access mine from a Windows 7 PC on my network (I think this is
what you're asking).  

agentsmith wrote: 
> - Can a Unix/Linux dummy like me live happily with Vortexbox?  Will I
> get stuck at some point if I am not a Linux person?
> 
> Sorry about all the questions.

Yes.  I can't even spell LInex :-)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] LMS on Ubuntu 12.04 cannot downsample 24/192

2012-12-06 Thread Fukinagashi

But my machine is 32 bit indeed...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SqueezePad or iPeng app?

2012-12-06 Thread Letten

Saturn94 wrote: 
> 
> For myself, I'm not looking for an Android app,  just an app for my iPad
> Mini (when I get it).  My other half recently got an Android based
> smartphone. 

Sorry for picking up on the original question of choosing an App for
controlling Squeezebox'es. 

But our household has many squeezeboxes old and new, and we control them
from many different devices: PC's through webinterface, Android phones
and tablets, iPads, and the Squeezeboxes them seleves. 

In my experience, switching between all these "remotes" is much easier
using interfaces which are more or less identical.

So, I actually went back to using Logitech's own App more often, even
though I have some of the others. I know it's not as smooth in the
interface, but at least it's familiar across all our devices.

Just my 2 cents :-)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Question from an old newbie

2012-12-06 Thread CharlieG

agentsmith wrote: 
> One more question on Vortexbox if I may.
> 
> Someone mentioned that my slowness is due to slow NAS.  If I my
> Vortexbox has no internal storage and access the same NAS through the
> LAN, would I still experience the dramatic speed improvement?

I think Mnyb was saying LMS works smoother if the music files are
locally attached rather than network attached.  For example having the
music files stored on your Mac’s hard drive, or on an external
hard drive attached to the Mac, might be faster than running LMS on the
Mac and accessing the files over your network.

I think garym was referring to running LMS on a slow NAS as compared to
running LMS on a Vortexbox Appliance (the hardware solution of
Votexbox).

Guys, please correct me if I have misread your replies.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread Michael Herger

Ok, I'm not totally new to this kind of solutions.
Please, could you give some hints, some starting point?


In Settings/Advanced you can enable SSH ("Remote access"). Then you'll  
find the configuration file in /etc/squeezecenter. I'd suggest you play  
with the prefs on a desktop installation before you start tinkering on the  
device. And always keep a copy of the working file..


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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread erwjack

mherger wrote: 
> 
> > Any case... is there some way to customize the SBT server?
> 
> Not much, no. Unless you want to venture and edit configuration files on
> 
> the command line using ssh and vi :-).
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

Ok, I'm not totally new to this kind of solutions.
Please, could you give some hints, some starting point?

EJ



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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread Michael Herger

Uhm... what about this link?
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16663/~/can%E2%80%99t-open-my-squeezebox-touch-software-in-my-web-browser


Ouch... wrong. At least very confusing. Obviously written by someone who  
doesn't have a clue.



Any case... is there some way to customize the SBT server?


Not much, no. Unless you want to venture and edit configuration files on  
the command line using ssh and vi :-).


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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible

2012-12-06 Thread erwjack

mherger wrote: 
> > The problem is that I can't connect with the SBT server via web.
> 
> The server built in to the Touch does not have a web UI.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael

Uhm... what about this link?
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16663/~/can%E2%80%99t-open-my-squeezebox-touch-software-in-my-web-browser

Any case... is there some way to customize the SBT server?
I would uncheck the automatic file scanning (and activate it only if
needed) and a lot of useless plugin.
Thanks in advance.

EJ



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