[SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
Like many of you, I was excited at the prospect of buy a Touch for some time. And like some, my interest is primarily in connecting it to an external hard drive, rather than to a wireless computer-based system. Convenience, high fidelity, and stylish, affordable package - the Touch seemed to offer it all. However, after reading the many threads on this forum with informative posts from beta-testers and other folks with the technical know-how to understand what's going wrong and why, I can't see myself buying a Touch now, or in the near future. Even with the many delays due to software development, I get the feeling that the Touch is far from ready to provide a reliable and enjoyable experience to someone like me who knows good sound, but who lacks the technical knowledge to identify and fix bugs, or who has $1000-2000 to purchase a more sophisticated alternative (if there is one). Sorry to be such a party-pooper. I really wanted a Touch-EHD component to add to my modest but great-sounding stereo system, but with all I've read here from you guys, I think a purchase now would just lead to disappointment. Please, if you have the time and the interest, share your thoughts on my dilemma. Am I being realistic or a worry-wart? What would you do in my situation? Are there other considerations that I'm not aware of. Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. -- iwannatouch iwannatouch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36407 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
iwannatouch;550391 Wrote: Please, if you have the time and the interest, share your thoughts on my dilemma. Am I being realistic or a worry-wart? What would you do in my situation? Are there other considerations that I'm not aware of. Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. Depending on how you plan on using the Touch, you may be in the worry-wart category. I've had my Touch working in my system for a month and a half now as a replacement for by SB3 (Classic) and it works excellently as a player for my existing Squeezebox server system. The sound quality of the Touch by itself was so good that I chose to sell my external Lavry DAC. So, just used as a player with an external server, I don't know they have much tweaking left to do. The knotty part is if you wish to use the Touch's internal server. In following the threads (and doing a bit of experimenting myself), this is where more work is needed if you plan on using a large external USB drive directly plugged into the Touch. However, even in that situation, not everyone has a problem. Keep in mind that Logitech has a 30 day return policy. If you're serious about wanting a Touch, why not just try it out yourself? -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
I know exactly how you feel BUT I can assure you ... you wont be disappointed if you purchased a Touch. TRUE: don't expect instant gratification with a stand alone Touch/HDD player. You'll be happy enough with a USB stick and/or an SD card with sufficient music storage for the time being. At least until Logitech gets the big library of music on a USB HDD settled. I guess SOME have had luck with an attached hard drive, but I haven't. THREE MORE THINGS: As expected the sound quality is superb... I was like you... I haven't repented of my purchase... -- carib carib's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34240 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
No, you're not being a worry wart(!), but your concerns are valid. I, too, am very disappointed with things as they stand, and I have spent half a grand on two SBTs with the initial expectations that they would do what they say on the tin -- or rather what the website wording states. They don't, and my initial posts were met with disdain by several on the forum when I mentioned consumer regulations in the UK, designed primarily to protect consumers from companies selling products that are not fit for purpose and/or do not perform according to how they are described on the vending website. In fact, I bet if we were to conduct a poll among SBT users on here, as to whether they are satisfied with their purchase / whether the SBT does what they expected it to / whether the SBT performs all features as expected, we'd get a mixture of responses. So, yes, I would hold off on getting one, at least until the developers have sorted out the firmware and have addressed the numerous problematic issues detailed herein, which seem mostly associated with HDD recognition / reliabile connectivity issues. Anyone who says this is nonsense -- well, just read the numerous posts to this effect. If I know someone personally who is looking to buy a media streamer / network music player that purports to do what the website states, in this case, and I quote verbatim from Logitech's website: You can access music and pictures stored on flash drives and memory cards. and It doesnt matter if your library includes 100 tracks or 100,000. -- well, I can't simply recommend it with the software in its current incarnation, again based on both my experience and that of other users. Would you buy a car, knowing that some owners have had to return that same model to the garage / go on a car-user forum / call customer support to get it to work reliably, because it drove fine for 100 miles, but then stopped working? Cheers, and spend your money wisely! -- SomersetGuy SomersetGuy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
I'm not discounting anyone's problems here, but just to report some alternative info: My brother purchased a TOUCH (his first SB product). I walked him through setup over the phone. Within about 15 minutes, he had it up and running with updated firmware, etc. He is using the internal tinySC with an attached harddrive (not sure what it is, but a 3 year or so old, separately powered 500GB harddrive with about 54,000 mp3/aac tracks). I had him let the drive scan overnight. As of the next morning, he's been using the Touch 24/7 with the attached drive, running tinySC, and also listening to Pandora and various internet radio. He's reported zero issues over the last 3 weeks. He's running 7.5 software and is connecting with WIFI (about 70% signal). To him this is all just magic. He probably would have been fine setting it up without my help. The only things I really had him do that he wouldn't have known, was to (1) move his router slightly (that increased his wifi strength from about 45 to 70) and (2) NOT TOUCH ANYTHING OR USE THE PLAYER until it had a chance to do a full music scan off the USB drive. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
If you must restrict yourself to the Touch's inbuilt server (particularly with a large music collection) then I'd say your reluctance is valid. If, on the other hand, you are willing to use the Touch with SBS on your computer then I would not hesitate. :) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
toby10;550406 Wrote: If, on the other hand, you are willing to use the Touch with SBS on your computer then I would not hesitate. :) Very much agree. Wired ethernet with SBS on computer works great! I am running wired to router, SBS on computer, happily streaming 24bit 96kHz FLACs (transcode to PCM on server). Can't comment on TinySC tho' -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
iwannatouch;550391 Wrote: ...or who has $1000-2000 to purchase a more sophisticated alternative (if there is one). Well, I'm happy with the Touch, but there are many Digital Streaming players. For High-End, take a look at Linn. (great company, I have one of their LP-12 turntables) -- Tony T Tony #63743; SBTouch #9834; SBRadio #9836; Tony T's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34544 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
I think the complaints are related to three different things: 1. People that try to use the built-in server with a medium or large library 2. People that relies on MySB.com central server 3. People that have used the large fonts on SB3/Classic and can't see the text on the Touch because it's visibility from a distance isn't as good as a SB3/Classic If you don't fall into one of the above categories, I can strongly recommend you to get the Touch. It's definitely the best Squeezebox that has ever been in my home and I also have a Classic, Boom, Duet and Radio. However, if you fall in one of the above mentioned categories, I would be very careful to get the Touch at the moment. It's probably better to let the software mature a bit more if you need the built-in server or relies on MySB.com. If you have some specific feature which is required for your happiness, it might be worth to verify if it exists on the Touch. There are still a few features on Classic/Boom/Transporter that doesn't exist on the Touch. The firmware doesn't have as high quality as Classic yet, but as long as you have a separate computer with Squeezebox Server and doesn't have some unusual setup, I wouldn't worry about that. Honestly, I can't think of any bug that distrubs on my music listening experience. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
Tony T;550423 Wrote: Well, I'm happy with the Touch, but there are many Digital Streaming players. For High-End, take a look at Linn. (great company, I have one of their LP-12 turntables) Doesn't Linn get a lot of complains for their software ? I've got the impression that many Linn users use the SkweezyDs plugin to make it possible to use Squeezebox Server as server solution ? I don't have any facts regarding this, it's just the feeling I've got, so it might be completely incorrect. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
As to the Touch being a NMP, it is more then ready for Prime Time. Both the analog and digital outs are better then any player to date other then the Transporter. As a digital transport, it is killer and gives the Transporter a run for its money. If you like the Touch, I say buy one and order a Vortexbox Appliance while you're at it. For $670, you end up with an all-in-one dedicated music server/ripper and the Touch player. No WiFi, No Network, only three connections to the Touch (power, Ethernet, Audio/Digital out), only two connections to the Vortexbox (once setup its headless so only Ethernet and power). For $785, one gets a 2TB dedicated music server and Touch. The Vortexbox uses very little energy and is fairly small. At smaller then 12X9.5X3 inches, it will fit on just about any 19-inch audio shelf along with the Touch. If the Server just has be very small check out the Vortexbox 500GB Micro. The audio out of the Touch is fantastic, so as to its primary and main job of being a NMP it is wonderful. Can there be issues using the TinySC feature, sure especially if one is asking it to do to much or wanting everything that is in SBS. I use TinySC all the time with USB drives without problem one. Will it work with every USB drive out there, no it will not. And also look how I am using it without problem, in my SUV as my main music player, at the beach home, and the cabin on the weekends. Granted as soon as they have 5 or so in stock, I can stop moving my Touch around so much, but for now taking it out of the house, putting it in the Expedition, taking it into the cabin, back into the SUV for the trip home, and back inside once home, is hassle free other then the moving. One last option is to buy the Touch and a USB drive that is known to play well with TinySC. But if you want all the bells and whistles of SqueezeBoxServer, they are just not going to be there because as a 'feature' TinySC doesn't have them. A dedicated Music Server is in my opinion the way to go. It gives on everything and all of the Squeezebox experience. A dedicated server can be as small and as simple as one wants. I run a WiFi router with my main system, but I don't have Internet or other computers on the Network (unless I want to use the WebUI). Its just my dedicated Music Server, Ethernet into the WiFi router, Transporter Ethernet to WiFi router, 2 SB3's Ethernet to router, the rest connect by WiFi. It could just as easily be a Vortexbox Micro, one Ethernet cable, and a Touch! Or add a small WiFi router and add Squeezeboxes where you want them! For me the WiFi lets me put a Squeezebox just about anywhere. It allows me to use iPeng on my iPhone and lets me use the WebUI from any laptop or PC that I let see the Squeezebox WiFi Network. I also do this at the cabin on long weekends. I bring the Touch in from the Expedition, use my 1TB Toshiba USB drive, I have an old D-Link router I keep there, and bring a SB Radio and Boom alone. I use a pair of AudioEngine A5s with the Touch. I use the Touch and iPeng to control the 3 Squeezeboxes. No Internet at the cabin, the WiFi network is just so the music from the USB drive plugged into the Touch can get to the other Squeezebox players. I have been doing this for over 6 months without issue. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
iPhone;550430 Wrote: If you like the Touch, I say buy one and order a Vortexbox Appliance while you're at it. For $670, you end up with an all-in-one dedicated music server/ripper and the Touch player. No WiFi, No Network, only three connections to the Touch (power, Ethernet, Audio/Digital out), only two connections to the Vortexbox (once setup its headless so only Ethernet and power). For $785, one gets a 2TB dedicated music server and Touch. You're probably right, but I don't think having to spend an additional $370-485 to get a $300 unit to work as advertised is a good selling point. -- iwannatouch iwannatouch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36407 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
don't miss the point that my completely non-technical brother has his touch working using the embedded tinySC sofware, and an old external USB drive with 54,000 tracks with NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER. I have one too with no issues whatsoever (but in my case, I am using it with a SbS running 24/7, so this is not a fair comparison). As others often point out, don't assume that the posts on a forum represent the typical case. The thousands of people who have no complaints because something just works don't bother to even discover this forum exits, much less post here. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
It seems, from what I have read, that usb powered drives cause a lot more failures than drives with their own power supply. Is that the general concensus others have? Bruce -- brucegrr brucegrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3964 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
brucegrr;550451 Wrote: It seems, from what I have read, that usb powered drives cause a lot more failures than drives with their own power supply. Is that the general concensus others have? Bruce This is my interpretation as well. And note that my brother's trouble free setup uses a USB drive with its OWN power supply. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
iwannatouch;550439 Wrote: You're probably right, but I don't think having to spend an additional $370-485 to get a $300 unit to work as advertised is a good selling point. There's no having to. It's a matter of choice which, as the bishop said to the actress, is always nice. Using a Vortexbox or a Sheeva gives extra benefits, and the fun of getting the whole thing sorted. Many of us are inveterate inquisitive children (i.e. we like to fiddle about). To put it another way, the Squeezebox family like Le Petit Prince or The Lord of the Rings is for children of 8 to 80, who (as a matter of existential principle or genetic determination) can not let the thing be. If you like playing with the thing, play with it. If not, plug it in, shove in a powered USB hard-drive with music on board, and bob's your uncle. The Touch is brill. -- kesey Squeezebox Classic:2; Duet: 1; Boom:1; Touch:1 Server: SheevaPlug Debian Squeeze 4GB SDCard, Squeezeboxserver 7.6.0 - r30813 kesey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10786 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
Based on my experiences with my Touch: 1) It worked out of the box - once connected, it updated firmware, setup was relatively simple, and it scanned my media library without issue (USB-HDD). 2) Once I started having issues, if I didn't know about this forum, I would have been screwed. Many problems are easily explained, but there doesn't seem to be a decent FAQ for all the issues that have come up. 3) Library management tagging is ultra important, and there should be a definitive - if you want it to search and act like this, tag your files as follows. Most of my subsequent issues with my library were due to the recycle bin on the drive, and inconsistent tagging of files. Now that I have figured out the way I need to tag, no issues. And I erase my entire HDD and copy my adjusted library from my PC. So, I would say that if you expect everything to work without any problems, you are optimistic. This is still a bit of a tweakers box, mostly due to it being able to do so many things for many different people. -- crazyj crazyj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
crazyj;550471 Wrote: 3) Library management tagging is ultra important, and there should be a definitive - if you want it to search and act like this, tag your files as follows. Most of my subsequent issues with my library were due to the recycle bin on the drive, and inconsistent tagging of files. Now that I have figured out the way I need to tag, no issues. And I erase my entire HDD and copy my adjusted library from my PC. This can't be overstated. Many people have libraries that are quite random. They may have worked in itunes, because things were ripped there and placed in various places that ITUNES knew about, but no one else! I just spent a weekend at a friends house fixing his music setup. He had backed up his old harddrive to a new hardrive and somehow a large part of his music ended up as hidden files buried deep, deep, deep in an odd directory structure under a backup directory. I eventually found it and fixed things. He also had downloaded or ripped songs with itunes that ended up in all sorts of weird locations. Once things were moved, nothing could be found. Of course I consolidated everything and pointed to the right directories, so for now he's good. But without 1. good tags and 2. good organization, you're likely to have problems. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME (music) PLAYER
iwannatouch;550391 Wrote: ... I get the feeling that the Touch is far from ready to provide a reliable and enjoyable experience to someone like me who knows good sound, but who lacks the technical knowledge to identify and fix bugs, or who has $1000-2000 to purchase a more sophisticated alternative (if there is one) iwannatouch;550439 Wrote: You're probably right, but I don't think having to spend an additional $370-485 to get a $300 unit to work as advertised is a good selling point. But that is the same (in fact, far less) than your $1000-2000 solution. There is always Sonos, but it's basically a player + wifi remote + server. Or, as suggested here, Touch + Vortex Box for $670. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79118 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
